tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post7455683936848303716..comments2023-10-31T09:28:27.222+00:00Comments on JUSTICE FOR MADDIE AND THE TWINS: New Goncalo interview refers to sex offending/ Freedom of the Press? Law for Journalists by the Attorney GeneralUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-35909323913945190962009-02-24T19:55:00.000+00:002009-02-24T19:55:00.000+00:00I will put Payne's rog up on another thread for an...I will put Payne's rog up on another thread for anyone who feels like a journey into what I believe is a pretty sick mind and of course all the erms ahs you knows..Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-67614645280223125632009-02-24T19:51:00.000+00:002009-02-24T19:51:00.000+00:00Hiya BT - I confess I cannot clearly remembr the r...Hiya BT - I confess I cannot clearly remembr the relationship now between OB and Payne but if I recall and I may have this wrong, they trained together and used to share digs in the Leics area, I think that was how Fiona met him?<BR/><BR/>Di, again, maybe I am not remembering things as well as I should, not sure if soc wkr was just holidaying there now! I though I read she had been living In Pt for 7 yrs and worked p/time. <BR/><BR/>Help I must be tired!<BR/><BR/>I am currently once again reading Payne, but it is really hard work and he just makes my flesh creep! <BR/><BR/>his bloody mindset! <BR/><BR/>"and I think, I suppose for my mindset, the main thing for me was that we were all, everyone was together as a group you know the locality of the, sort of the vicinity of the rooms was, was close enough to make everything as easy as possible, you know from, from all perspectives, whether it be during the day or, or during the evening.”<BR/><BR/>xxxAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-59578959521614729252009-02-24T19:34:00.000+00:002009-02-24T19:34:00.000+00:00Hi AllThanks Nancy I am feeling much better.I have...Hi All<BR/><BR/>Thanks Nancy I am feeling much better.<BR/><BR/>I have so much housework to catch up with, I have not had much time to read today.<BR/><BR/>I find it unbelievable G & K were aggressive when Yvonne showed them her credentials, she also found them strange. Also Kate said a couple had abducted Maddie, how would Kate know this? No wonder DP stopped K & G talking to Yvonne. I am sure he was extremely worried about what Kate would say. Loose cannon springs to mind.<BR/><BR/>Viv<BR/><BR/>Was it not said that Yvonne was holidaying near PDL at the time, and that is why she went to offer her help, or have I got that wrong.<BR/><BR/>I really hope Maddie was not abused but realistically I know it is a possibility as it happens in all walks of life.Dihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336817965235588462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-53675330650972437892009-02-24T19:31:00.000+00:002009-02-24T19:31:00.000+00:00Are they friends, acquaintances or is a friendship...Are they friends, acquaintances or is a friendship there between the partners rather than them.bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-16682486533962161682009-02-24T19:29:00.000+00:002009-02-24T19:29:00.000+00:00So my next question is what relationship does Russ...So my next question is what relationship does Russell O'Brien have with David Payne?bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-69588451828244583672009-02-24T17:38:00.000+00:002009-02-24T17:38:00.000+00:00Nancy, it is difficult to come to terms with the p...Nancy, it is difficult to come to terms with the possibility of Maddie having been sexually abused, I know. But it is a common scenario, I am afraid and to me this case has always born so many hallmarks of that being a very clear possibility. In fact a pretty obvious explanation for her disappearance without trace and this so called pact of silence. Sex offenders may try to justify their behaviour but deep down they know it is entirely shocking and not something they want to admit. <BR/><BR/>xxAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-71444279016029293562009-02-24T17:33:00.000+00:002009-02-24T17:33:00.000+00:00Hiya both, Yvonne Martin clearly believes that Pay...Hiya both, Yvonne Martin clearly believes that Payne may have been the carrier, not Gerry as he was wearing those cream/beige trousers on the occasion she met him with Kate and Gerry. I have read that he sometimes wears contact lenses and if he was undertaking this task he would obviously have done so, because his specs would be such an identifying feature. Having always been adamant that Gerry was the character I think we have to acccept it may have been him. He also is about 5' 10 med build, brown hair short on top. There is a thread on the 3 As now running to about 1000 pages on David Payne, he clearly cannot be ignored as a major player in what happened to Maddie. <BR/><BR/>Wiz, I have to agree this social worker seemed to behave in a rather surprising and pushy way. Gerry apparently checked her credentials and was satisfied she had the right to speak to them. I am just wondering if she was sent to speak with them? I cannot quite get my head around this because it says she had been resident in Portugal for seven years but I suppose the possibility remains that she was acting on British authority. It is a bit weird, I just don't quite figure it at the moment. In their ordinary capacity with full authority they can be very forthright and pushy with parents but maybe she was forgetting she did not have that authority any longer? Perhaps that is the most likely explanation given the way she apparently approached the police but what credentials did she show Gerry? Presumably her credentials for acting in that capacity in Portugal and of course he would perhaps reason, well then she is acting in her official capacity and with Portuguese authority. Just running through some thoughts!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-26549752256438801232009-02-24T17:06:00.000+00:002009-02-24T17:06:00.000+00:00Hi Viv -I think that most of us, who haven't had t...Hi Viv -<BR/><BR/>I think that most of us, who haven't had the training and subsequent expertise that you must have gained while working as a Probation Officer, find it very difficult to come to terms with the idea that Maddie was sexually abused.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, I know it isn't beyond the realms of probability, bearing in mind that children who have suffered in this terrible way have come from all sorts of homes, poor, middle class and upper class. It is hard to discuss and even harder to prove unfortunately!<BR/><BR/>However, it would be interesting to find out if the spurious behaviour of both Gerry McCann and David Payne while on holiday in Majorca, is relevant.<BR/><BR/>Also highly coincidental is Yvonne Martin's recollection of having seen Payne before during her work in England.<BR/>===================================<BR/><BR/>Off to make the pancakes for tea!! A few more unwanted pounds!!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Nxnancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757653677727421758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-11498052635134475872009-02-24T16:47:00.000+00:002009-02-24T16:47:00.000+00:00Hi Wizard,Yes, I read that article by Anna Raccoon...Hi Wizard,<BR/><BR/>Yes, I read that article by Anna Raccoon (lovely name!) and I just have to reiterate what someone said on the 3A's and that is just why did it take 8 years for the police to apologise to Mr Lubbock? <BR/><BR/>Let's hope we don't have a similar time to wait before Maddie receives a very public apology from those who are to blame for her disappearance, i.e. the parents!<BR/><BR/>The PJ and LP don't have the luxury of a body to help find clues as to what happened in Maddie's case of course!<BR/><BR/>Nxnancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757653677727421758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-640820480703764252009-02-24T15:59:00.000+00:002009-02-24T15:59:00.000+00:00An interesting comment by Anna Raccoon on internal...An interesting comment by Anna Raccoon on internal censorship down at the Daily Mail. I copy below for information. <BR/><BR/>"Now you see it, now you don’t……<BR/>by Anna Raccoon on February 24, 2009<BR/>The early morning edition of The Daily Mail on-line carried an interesting story juxtaposing the the case of Stuart Lubbock with that of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.<BR/>The obvious connection, that both cases are of deep concern to ex-solicitor Tony Bennett was studiously ignored.<BR/>Instead the connection was drawn by innuendo; first detailing the fact that key pieces of evidence had either disappeared from the scene or been fatally flawed by the undue faith that the first officers on the scene had placed on the version of events they had been ‘told’ rather than treating the scene as a crime scene where potentially any crime might have been committed, by any person; then pointing out that an apology was due since the police force had made ‘basic errors’ in their investigations; this was juxtaposed with a curious sentence that said (without stipulating ‘who’ had said)<BR/>Comparisons are now being made between Essex Police’s handling of the Lubbock case with the Portuguese police’s handling of the Madeleine McCann investigation.<BR/>Thus ensuring that any early morning reader of the paper would be led to believe that the same criticisms of the Portuguese handling of the McCann case could be made.<BR/>Presumably by 10,00 am the lawyers had arrived at work, or perhaps Clarence Mitchell had arisen from his slumbers, for at 10.22am a new version of the paper appeared on-line, identical in all but one respect - the sentence drawing comparison with the McCann case had now been removed - but not before several sharp eyed bloggers had spotted it and sent it on its merry way across cyberspace."Wizardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13647410173508843374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-9293997559093802482009-02-24T15:12:00.000+00:002009-02-24T15:12:00.000+00:00Yvonne Martin’s involvement always seems a little ...Yvonne Martin’s involvement always seems a little strange to me. She is an English social worker with jurisdiction in England or am I wrong in this assumption? What I can’t understand, if I am right, is what was she doing questioning the McCanns in such detail and expecting a reply. She may have thought she could help of course but she was obviously running the risk of being considered a busy body. Does she have any official social work capacity in Portugal?Wizardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13647410173508843374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-42318656895615451062009-02-24T15:11:00.000+00:002009-02-24T15:11:00.000+00:00Hiya NancyI do not know whether Payne has the scar...Hiya Nancy<BR/><BR/>I do not know whether Payne has the scar Yvonne Martin is referring to but when you read the memo LP sent to Portugal it is clear they are talking about Payne, not Murat. <BR/><BR/>I do think it is possible as you suggest Tanner just made the sighting up to finger Muraa because that was clearly the plan but struggle with this because her initial description is the same as the Smith family and Gerry obviously knew he got spotted so would hardly want Tanner to reinforce that, jmo!<BR/><BR/>xxAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-65670820829326500952009-02-24T14:57:00.000+00:002009-02-24T14:57:00.000+00:00Hiya NancyI recall the PJ conducted extensive test...Hiya Nancy<BR/><BR/>I recall the PJ conducted extensive tests on the window and found that it would have been impossible for anyone to have climbed through it, because there was no damage to the lichen on the frame which is slow growing, generally taking years to build up, but extremely fragile and easily rubbed off. Additionally small flakes of DNA material would have been left from both Maddie and the predator had they both struggled through this fairly small window. As you say the suggestion he would do this when wishing to escape very rapidly with a sleeping child is just ridiculous. He would have just gone through the door and most normal undrugged children would be starting to get rather fractious by this stage! Of course it is possible to take a child as we know from the man who took the child from the bath whilst mom was right there in the flat, but he must have put his hand over the child's mouth to stop her screaming, so this predator climbed through the window with Maddie, with his hand over her mouth, yea right!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-1603845338712870392009-02-24T14:26:00.000+00:002009-02-24T14:26:00.000+00:00It sounds like Yvonne Martin is describing either ...It sounds like Yvonne Martin is describing either Payne or Murat, but the description of his clothes definitely puts Payne in the picture. Does he have the scar on his face that she is referring to?<BR/><BR/>What is strange is Kate referring to a couple having taken Maddie. I hadn't heard that before. Why would she say that if she didn't know it was a couple?<BR/><BR/>I still maintain that the McCanns wouldn't have had the need for a spokesperson and world wide publicity, unless they knew that Maddie wouldn't be coming back.<BR/><BR/>This Social Worker's statement tells me that something sinister and very secretive was going on!nancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757653677727421758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-25481232652347170992009-02-24T13:47:00.000+00:002009-02-24T13:47:00.000+00:00Hi Wizard -I've never given any credence to JT's b...Hi Wizard -<BR/><BR/>I've never given any credence to JT's bundleman. I think that was an afterthought to back up the McCann's story of a predator. <BR/><BR/>As you say, she may have wanted to put across the idea of his wearing gloves as there were no finger prints, besides Kate's, on the window frame or shutters, <BR/><BR/>As for getting in and out of the window - that would be the oddest way for anyone to try to escape with a four year old child, especially if there was a patio door left open. Also Diane Webster said she tried the window shutters and they were all in place.<BR/><BR/>As for the things they left behind at the tapas bar, it seems strange that DW went off without her handbag, especially as she was there on her own for a while before going back. I would say that their statements have been hugely edited to fall into place with each others.<BR/><BR/>CM's story of no mobiles or watches is an obvious cop out - maybe one or two people out of nine may not wear watches or have a mobile with them, but the whole 9of them would be far too much of a coincidence.<BR/><BR/>I must admit, I still go along with the idea that the children were given medication and Maddie had a fatal reaction to it. Kate continually checking on the twins that night to see if they were still breathing backs up that theory. And I do believe in the dogs - why would they only have picked up a scent in the McCann's apartment and hire car and nowhere else?<BR/><BR/>Obviously though it's only one theory amongst many others, but I do think someone will crack one of these days and the McCanns and their pals will head down that slippery slope they are desperately trying to avoid!<BR/><BR/>Off to read the latest thread on the 3A's now. BBL.<BR/><BR/>Nxnancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757653677727421758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-76768103218461021662009-02-24T13:43:00.000+00:002009-02-24T13:43:00.000+00:00Here we go Di/nancyall the gen on Yvonne Martin an...Here we go Di/nancy<BR/><BR/>all the gen on Yvonne Martin and erm, er, David Payne who I just do not think for one minute is safe around children. The one who likes to book all these group holidays with his mates and of course their little children who get dumped and hid from, apart from when it suits him.<BR/><BR/><BR/>YVONNE WARREN MARTIN<BR/><BR/>Places Worked:<BR/>1. Gateshead, Tyne & Wear<BR/>2. Southshields, Tyne & Wear<BR/>3. Newcastle, Tyne & Wear<BR/>4. York, North Yorkshire<BR/>5. Hull, Kingston Upon Hull<BR/>6. North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear<BR/>7. Plymouth, Devon<BR/><BR/>WITNESS TESTIMONY<BR/>Date of Diligence: 2007/11/14<BR/>Time: 10H30<BR/>Locale: DIC Portimao<BR/>Entity that presides:<BR/>Functionary that executes:<BR/><BR/>Name: YVONNE WARREN MARTIN<BR/>Parent(s): Patricia Warren<BR/>Country: U.K.<BR/>Residence: E*************<BR/>Civil Status: Divorced<BR/>Profession: Social Services and Protection of Minors Manager<BR/><BR/>? Comes to the process as a witness<BR/>? Is accompanied by interpreter Filipa Maria da Conceicao Silva<BR/>? The deponent has already given a deposition to this police regarding the facts in question with said diligence realised 13-06-2007. The deponent confirms in the integrity of that deposition.<BR/>? The attached page (see above) was also added to this deposition. Said page describes the locales where the deponent has carried out her professional functions in relation to social services and the protection of minors. She confirms that this list is correct.<BR/>? States that in the discourse of her contact with Madeleine's parents, which she describes with detail in her previous declarations, Kate told her the child had been taken by a couple. She did not have the opportunity to probe this question nor any other.<BR/>? What she states in respect of the individual who was close to Madeleine's parents when she met with them, and who was later identified as David Payne, reaffirms that the same individual seems familiar, possibly as this same individual was involved in a situation related to a professional activity of the deponent. She clarifies that on that occasion, nor now that time has passed, could she remember concretely the locale or the situation in which she may have come to know David Payne. She continues to think that the same individual is known to her but cannot state the particular situation. She adds that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work but she cannot be certain where she would have known him.<BR/>? States that around two weeks after Madeleine's disappearance, at a time when the police asked people to come forward with information about a man, carrying a child, was seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, given them the following information: regarding the various details which I observed in contact with the McCann's? it is her opinion that they may be involved in the disappearance of Madeleine. She first found them aggressive. After she showed Madeleine's parents her credentials, they also seemed strange. After this she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely normal that they left their children alone at home. Associating this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 percent of cases of children's disappearance, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it her duty to inform the police of this. She did this anonymously because she did not want to be harassed by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine's parents, David Payne, who was with them, wore a dark polo, blue or black in colour, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton material, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type with a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing fits perfectly with what the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the deponent think that the parents and their friends could be involved in the disappearance of the child.<BR/>? She declares that one of her principal claims when she wrote the anonymous letter is that the British police checked paedophile registers or child abusers and if David Payne was on that list.<BR/>? And nothing more was said?.<BR/>SERVICE INFORMATION<BR/>Volume IX, pages 3422 to 3424<BR/>To: Mr. Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation, Dr. Goncalo Amaral<BR/>From: Jose Monteiro, Inspector<BR/><BR/>Re: Collection of Information<BR/><BR/>In the sequence of information transmitted to this Police, on this date, we went to the residence of Yvonne Warren Martin, holder of British passport no. 7*********, situated in E *************, no. **********, contactable via mobile no, *************to receive further clarification of the details following. The team was composed of the signator and Carlos Antunes.<BR/><BR/>? On May 04, 2007, around 07H00 she found out about the disappearance following a report on Sky News or BBC.<BR/>? She has practised her profession for 25 years, in the area of protection of minors, and felt it her duty to offer help to her compatriots and went to Praia da Luz.<BR/>? Around 09H00, she met the McCann couple next to the apartment from where the child disappeared, accompanied by a third person, of the masculine sex, who seemed very familiar to her.<BR/>? This third person of the group appeared to be an intimate of the family as he was the one who, when the media surrounded them, began talking and answering questions. Following this, she further confirmed his closeness to the family when she saw him taking care of the couple?s twins, also minors.<BR/>? She identified herself and presented her credentials and immediately began talking to the mother of the missing child as she was visibly upset with the situation.<BR/>? During the conversation the mother told her that she did not understand why a couple had abducted her daughter.<BR/>? However, the third element overheard this conversation and interrupted Ms. Martin and took the McCann couple away from her.<BR/>? This same element came, a small time afterwards to tell her that the couple did not want to talk to her any further and did not require her help?an action that appeared to her very strange.<BR/>? However, she heard commentaries next to the complex reception that the British Consul was coming to the locale and according to this person in order to offer his/her help.<BR/>? During this time, she again saw the third element two more times: the first time, he was accompanying an older woman and the McCann twins, demonstrating a confidence that the couple had entrusted in him the care of their two children. The second, he accompanied what appeared to her to be police elements.<BR/><BR/>--YVONNE describes the third element as follows:<BR/>--Around 35 years of age<BR/>--Being around 1,80 metres in height<BR/>--Of normal physical appearance<BR/>--Having dark, short hair<BR/>--Uses glasses of small dimensions and rectangular in length<BR/>--Has a round face<BR/>--Presents with a scar above his eyebrow and on his left cheek<BR/>--Speaks with a South England accent<BR/>--Was wearing light trousers, or colour cream or beige, and a dark polo<BR/><BR/>? At home after this event, and after watching television, she saw the same individual and this time, concluded that that face was familiar to her in her professional circles (protection of minors). She was not able to discern if he was a suspect/arguido or witness<BR/>? Clarifies that she is capable of identifying photographically the individual, also adding that with the identified photo one can also access the database of the British Police to ascertain if the same is related to any crimes against children<BR/><BR/>To bring this to your attention,<BR/><BR/>Signed<BR/><BR/>Jose Monteiro<BR/>Volume XIII, to 3425 to 3428<BR/>WITNESS TESTMONY<BR/>Date: 2007.06.14<BR/>Time: 12H00<BR/><BR/>Name: YVONNE WARREN MARTIN<BR/>Country: U.K.<BR/>Residence: E*********, no. *****. A********<BR/>Civil Status: ************<BR/>Profession: Social Services and Protection of Minors Manager<BR/><BR/>? Deponent is accompanied by an interpreter<BR/>? Has lived in Portugal for seven years, and works part-time. That said, she lives for some months in her home in S***** and for the rest of the year lives in England, where she works.<BR/>? In the past month of May or more precisely on the 04th of May 2007, the deponent was in Portugal, enjoying holidays, when at 07H00 turned on the television to an English news channel (BBC or SKY NEWS) and there viewed a an appeal for British citizens in the Algarve to offer all the help possible to a British couple who were holidaying in Praia da Luz and whose daughter, a minor, had gone missing since May 03, 2007.<BR/>? As she works directly with situation of children at risk, and as she found herself very close to Praia da Luz, she went to the location with the intent of offering her help and support to the couple. She got there around 09H30.<BR/>? Clarifies that she did not immediately head out to Praia da Luz as she still had some things to do at home but left around 09H00.<BR/>? Initially, she did not locate the exact site where the family was staying. At seeing a patrol car which passed by her, she asked those police if they could point her to the right location. She was accompanied by the patrol care until the apartment from where the child had disappeared and where the parents were located.<BR/>? At the locale, she found a group of three people, two of the masculine sex and one female.<BR/>? She went over to the group and identified herself.<BR/>? Two elements of that group, a male and the other female, identified themselves as the parents of the missing child?the couple McCann.<BR/>? The couple were visibly upset, and the mother was crying intensely.<BR/>? The third person never identified himself. The deponent asked who he was and the couple responded that he was a close friend of the family.<BR/>? She adds that this third person appeared familiar to her.<BR/>? Taking advantage of the facts she had heard of the disappearance via the news channel, she began questioning the couple how often they had checked on the children. The couple responded that people would go to see them every hour.<BR/>? As is normal and routine in her service, she questioned whether Gerry was the biological father of the missing child, and the response was yes.<BR/>? She clarifies that she asked this questions because in the course of her 25 years of service working with minors at risk, it is very normal that when a couple has children and where the father or the mother is not a biological parent, this person may have a tendency to come and get his/her child.<BR/>? After having obtained the verbal response from Gerry, the mother, Kate, questioned what was she doing asking such questions as these should be asked by the police, and who should have already been at the locale in large numbers looking for her daughter, who was taken by a couple.<BR/>? At this moment, the deponent began noting that the couple began questioning her and she immediately showed them her official documents and credentials issued by the British government to help calm them.<BR/>? Gerry took her documents and showed them to the third person and told him that they were authentic and had police certification.<BR/>? At this moment, the deponent wishes to clarify that, in England, whatever element who works with children, be it doctor, police, social worker, has to have a proper credential certified by the police and it was this document that she showed to the McCanns.<BR/>? She found it strange that Kate would have spoken to her of her daughter being taken by a couple. She tried to separate the couple so as to speak with greater privacy. She suggested to them to go inside the apartment. Kate aggressively rejected this idea and told her that they could speak on the street.<BR/>? The deponent then questioned is anyone from the Medical Centre had already contacted them as she was very agitated and needed some support. She responded that they had not.<BR/>? At this point, Kate told her that her daughter had already been missing for 13 hours. It was around 10 in the morning.<BR/>? Meanwhile a fourth individual came towards the group and identified himself as a journalist. The deponent alerted the couple to the type of declarations that they would transmit and that it would be better for them to maintain silence.<BR/>? At this moment, the third person, who was always near the couple and the deponent, told them in a whispering voice that the three had been talking for some time.<BR/>? After this, and leaving the couple behind him, he came next to the deponent and told her that the couple no longer were available to speak.<BR/>? As she noted earlier, this third person of the group is familiar to her, and thinks that she may have come across him in the course of her work as an arguido/suspect or as a witness.<BR/>? She describes him as a bit tallish, of about 1,80 m, about 35 years old, of normal physical complexion, short hair, dark in colour, with a round face and with a scar on the left side of his face which runs from part of the eyebrow to the check. He uses graduated glasses of small dimensions and with rectangular lenses. He spoke with a south England accent and was wearing cream coloured trouser and a dark polo.<BR/>? Questioned whether that it would be possible to identify him via a picture or in person, the deponent responds yes.<BR/>? She adds that, after having spoken to the McCann couple, she spoke with the resort manager, where after being identified, questioned him as to whether there had been a break-in in the apartment where the child stayed. He responded no but the door was open as were the blinds to the window, which, according to Kate, should have been closed but were found open.<BR/>? And nothing more was said.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-77375904690893500392009-02-24T13:29:00.000+00:002009-02-24T13:29:00.000+00:00Hiya WizPersonally, I feel pretty convinced Tanner...Hiya Wiz<BR/><BR/>Personally, I feel pretty convinced Tanner did see Bundleman, but not at 9.15. The impression I get is that their child was not well and between them they were covering being there for her. At least that is what Tanner thought but I am not entirely convinced OB was always where he should have been. The really odd thing is that apparently by the time the alarm gets raised, she is back in the apt caring for the children but OB only arrives back at the table just immediately before Kate goes to make her grim discovery. Him sitting back down has always seemed like a signal to Kate, OK now! When I look at the rogs of OB and Payne I am afraid I just have to assume they are direct participants and I think you know what I mean by that but I am not clear Tanner would have known about their habits. I think she saw Gerry when she was going back to the apt after eating her own meal, probably around 9.40 to 9.50 as he started his journey with Maddie down to the beach but she did not know it was him. When she knew that Maddie had been taken, she just was going to tell the police about what she had seen and no one was going to shut her up. OB, Gerry and Payne were with her when she ultimately spoke to the police and I think she got deliberately confused as to the time when she saw Bundleman, thinking she was trying to help. The fact that she was very suggestible is confirmed by the fact that initially she did not say anything about childrens' PJs but by the Saturday, Fiona had been talking to Kate and then Fiona had been talking to Jane. So Jane now starts to say oh and I can describe the PJs she was wearing too. Over time she was clearly worked on still further to change the description of bundleman from a white male, 5'10 med build, brown hair short on top etc to some skinny, swarthy male, shorter, now heavy jacket instead of suit jacket and crucially with bizarre teeth and masses of hair to reflect the gran cooper sighting from this health worker who lives not too far from Gerry. <BR/><BR/>As to the carrying position, on Panorama, she says well yes with hindsight carrying up on the shoulder would be a more normal way of carrying a child. This implies to me she is influenced by what the entire Smith family have seen and is wanting to somehow cover people saying she is a fantasist and a liar which was clearly playing on her mind. But again I think she was probably telling the truth, because this was Maddie and she was either heavily sedated (my preferred option as you know) or dead. I do not think she was dead, I think she had been seriously abused and needed to be "removed" and I am quite certain from Gerry's reaction when questioned, what he says on Panorama, suggesting some predator had drugged the kids, his own mom saying it, that those children were all most definitely drugged that night to facilitate Maddie's removal without any complications of any of them waking up. <BR/><BR/>My own feelings about why Diane Webster just continued to sit there are that she was frozen in horror. It would be unusual for a mature and presumably reasonably intelligent woman to not have a clear inkling of what her own son in law is like and what is going on around her. I have read on 3 As a UK Police report to the PJ and their suspicions as to Payne and Fiona covering for him are abundantly clear, indeed they refer to "other knowledge" or something like that which of course we are not privy to, other than the statements of the doctors and the social worker who thinks she already knew him. He is an intelligent man but his rog is so confused it is almost unreadable, fear creeps out of the pages.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-21493153112938170842009-02-24T13:24:00.000+00:002009-02-24T13:24:00.000+00:00Di -I don't recollect who the social worker was wh...Di -<BR/><BR/>I don't recollect who the social worker was who the McCanns refused to talk to or discuss their situation, but Yvonne Martin rings a bell. <BR/><BR/>But just why the tapas friend told them not to talk to her is very odd indeed. Just why would they do that unless they had been told to keep silent in case they made some incriminating comment!<BR/><BR/>I hope you are feeling better today Di!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Nxnancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757653677727421758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-43745848318744625922009-02-24T13:13:00.000+00:002009-02-24T13:13:00.000+00:00Hi Viv, Thanks for all the interesting information...Hi Viv, <BR/><BR/>Thanks for all the interesting information - every day I think brings us nearer to the truth.<BR/><BR/>Goncalo having read those phone texts, it's a shame he's not able to reveal what was in them other than it was the situation of the service providers that was at stake there. Does what he says mean there was vital evidence or not?<BR/><BR/>And, very importantly, the hair forensic tests - just why were they rendered unusable? That sounds a bit iffy to me.<BR/><BR/>Also why did the LP sign a confidentiality agreement with the PJ's when it was not the normal procedure.<BR/><BR/>And why did Brian Kennedy, on his visit to Murat (it was said to offer him a job), take Spanish detectives with him?<BR/><BR/>Goncalo definitely gives the impression that it's not the LP who are suspect here, in fact he goes out of his way to praise them, but someone further up the hierarchy (his words) - I wonder who that could be?<BR/><BR/>Nxnancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757653677727421758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-92151703531826032022009-02-24T12:33:00.000+00:002009-02-24T12:33:00.000+00:00Hi Viv and All,I have been reading a lot recently ...Hi Viv and All,<BR/><BR/>I have been reading a lot recently on this blog and 3A’s and a number of things which on their own are quite inconsequential but they stick in my mind as oddities.<BR/><BR/>Firstly, Tanner’s sighting of bundleman. I don’t think this happened, or at least when she says it happened but it raised an interesting point. The way the child is alleged to have been carried we have all commented on it being a little odd. Almost as if the child was dead or unconscious – well may be. If this was a description of a stranger/ abductor he would have been wearing gloves hence no trace evidence found by forensics - this way of holding the child means he could still have been wearing the gloves but out of view of Tanner. Just speculating here but an abductor would not have rested the child on the floor outside the window while he took the gloves off then picked her up and legged it. So logically he would still have had the gloves on. This might be Tanner’s way of concealing the abductors hands by describing a rather odd way the child was being held. Just a thought as I’m not sure she’s that clever.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, in Diane Webster’s statement she says she remained at the Tapis Bar after the alarm was raised but shortly afterward went to apartment 5A. She looked at the windows in the children’s bedroom and they were closed she even went outside to see how they were tampered with. The interesting point is she returned to the Tapis bar to collect her bag, daughter’s child monitor and the McCanns camera all of which had been left behind. Now Clarence tells us the T9 wore no watches, didn’t have their mobiles with them but he doesn’t mention that the McCanns, at least, had a camera with them. This of course poses the question did they take any photos that evening? If whatever happened to Madeleine happened prior to the McCanns going to the Tapis bar what was the purpose of taking the camera with them? I can only speculate on this any thoughts?Wizardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13647410173508843374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-76662966147355624942009-02-23T21:50:00.000+00:002009-02-23T21:50:00.000+00:00Good old Goncalo!!So did he read those texts; yes...Good old Goncalo!!<BR/><BR/>So did he read those texts; yes he did and he suspected them from the very first hour, thank you Goncalo, just what I always thought!! I do not think the Mucks are going to like this much!!!<BR/><BR/>DL: At which point in time did you consider the McCanns to be suspects?<BR/><BR/>GA: Let’s see: In terms of suspicion, from the very first hour.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-77330899112531052262009-02-23T21:39:00.000+00:002009-02-23T21:39:00.000+00:00Well given what I just said above Nancy, this is i...Well given what I just said above Nancy, this is interesting! <BR/><BR/><BR/>23 February 2009<BR/>Exclusive Interview with Former PJ Coordinator Gonçalo Amaral<BR/><BR/>"The political will does not exist; there is no political will to reopen at the moment, because if there was a political will it would mean that there was a political will before the process was closed, in order to continue the investigation. And when a process of this type is archived, with so many diligences to take care of, with so many facts that needed clarification, that’s because there was no will to continue the investigation and that was clear when we left the investigation on the 2nd of October [2007]." Gonçalo Amaral in Vigo, October 2008<BR/><BR/><BR/>video to follow<BR/><BR/>A collaborative interview by Duarte Levy, Joana Morais, Astro and Mercedes<BR/><BR/>All Rights Reserved © Joana Morais 2009<BR/><BR/>Transcript & Translation<BR/><BR/>Duarte Levy: You have now seen that the Constitutional Court has authorised the use of phone taps in the [football corruption] “Golden Whistle” case. Do you think it would be possible to see the same happening in the McCann case, taking into account that the judge didn’t authorise access to the registers and taps that were carried out at that time?<BR/><BR/>Gonçalo Amaral: The issue is not the permission to access the phone taps. He didn’t authorize the access to information concerning the text messages. That is related to a bureaucratic matter. When those text messages took place, there was no phone surveillance. The understanding of that judge… to access that information, that data, there would have to be a duly authorised phone tap first, it’s a procedural matter. Some think it’s not like that, others have a different understanding, the Public Ministry did not appeal the decision of the Appeals Court, and therefore the case was tried and closed.<BR/><BR/>DL: Did the PJ ever read the contents of those text messages?<BR/><BR/>GA: Yes it did. Later on, when it was not very interesting anymore. What was at stake was the situation of the national service providers.<BR/><BR/>DL: During the first phase of the inquiry, after the disappearance of Madeleine, the PJ offered the McCanns a mobile phone with a Portuguese chip that the McCanns never used. On the other hand, they used two phone numbers that were supplied to them by Portuguese friends. Were those phones under surveillance?<BR/><BR/>GA: That phone that was offered to them, was the one that was tapped, right? That phone was for them to receive calls, this was during those diligences that were related with possible extortions, from the Dutch and the Spanish and it was to find out, for them to give that number when necessary, when they were asked for a contact number and a way to listen into the conversation with the possible abductor asking for money. It’s a perfectly normal procedure. As for the other phones that they may have used, I do not know about that.<BR/><BR/>DL: In the case, during the first weeks, in some reports, in some cases similar to this one, with the same resemblances, often the parents are advised not to publicise the case, based on the principle that this publicity can place the child’s life at risk. Were the two first press conferences that were held by the McCanns carried out with the agreement, the authorization from the PJ?<BR/><BR/>GA: No. The same happened in this case. They were advised not to publicise and to be careful with the press. And the person who did that right away wasn’t even from the PJ, but a member of the English social services, who had been working in that area for 25 years, working with endangered children, with abuse situations, who was on vacation in the area, in Praia da Luz, who on the very morning of the 4th [of May] contacts the couple and alerts them to that. But she is thrown out of the house, we can say.<BR/><BR/>DL: At which point in time did you consider the McCanns to be suspects?<BR/><BR/>GA: Let’s see: In terms of suspicion, from the very first hour. The procedures in this type of case are to find out who the persons are, who the missing person is, in this case the missing child, and to find out all the antecedents. And now the first question that is asked from the English authorities, from the British police forces, is that one. Who were the parents, that group of people, and who was the child, was she the target of abuse, was she not. Then, it evolves, it’s a formal procedure, its general for all cases and when the first statements are made, that’s the day when we start to suspect that something is wrong. Things evolved, they were suspects until we reached the work of the English dogs and then the suspicions ultimately became indicia [evidence].<BR/><BR/>DL: During that whole phase, and until you were removed from the field, the English policemen that were in Praia da Luz, how was the cooperation with them? Was there actually cooperation?<BR/><BR/>GA: Yes. The cooperation was very tight, very intense; there are no doubts about that.<BR/><BR/>DL: So which part of the English authorities originated that blockade?<BR/><BR/>GA: That is certainly, and it was, coming from the top of the English hierarchy.<BR/><BR/>DL: The English policemen were invited to sign a confidentiality document. At the PJ, is that a normal procedure?<BR/><BR/>GA: No. And it’s not normal with the English police, either. It is normal in cases with the secret services, and that document is signed right at the beginning. Now with normal police, doing criminal investigation, that doesn’t happen.<BR/><BR/>DL: Concerning participations from outside of this case, it is normal for the ambassador, this has happened before in the Algarve, unfortunately, other cases involving British citizens. Is it normal for the ambassador to travel there?<BR/><BR/>GA: No. Neither in British cases nor non-British cases, they don’t have that responsibility. What is normal is for the information to be relayed by the consulate, that is what happens and only then the ambassador may come. And now we think that the ambassador came right away because of those initial suspicions and the first requests that were made which indicated that we suspected the couple, and he intervened in a manner that is not normal. He should have stayed in Lisbon, at the police’s National Directory, speaking with the National Director and not on location. And him leaving Portimão then led to a communiqué that the PJ somehow was “committed” to the abduction theory.<BR/><BR/>DL: Concerning other individuals that were connected with this case, the appearance of Brian Kennedy, namely during the meeting that he held with Murat, did the PJ ever find out about the purpose of that meeting?<BR/><BR/>GA: I was not in the investigation anymore during that phase, I had already left, but I know that this gentleman has gone as far as meeting people from the PJ after I left, which is not correct. Even more so because that gentleman brought certain Spanish detectives with him. That behaviour from the PJ’s senior officials in not the most acceptable one.<BR/><BR/>DL: Concerning not only this case, or other cases, how seriously could the events of the Madeleine case affect future cases?<BR/><BR/>GA: Well, in this case, like in all other cases, they affect the future [cases]. We have to learn from our mistakes and from the difficulties that we experienced. For example, in an earlier case, from 2004, the so-called “Joana case”, a disappearance as well, us investigators requested for the National Directory of the Police to intervene in a manner that would produce new regulations, new procedures for this type of inspection, to treat these disappearances. For example, there’s a very important issue. The disappearance in itself, when you go to a police station, or to the GNR or to the PJ, for missing persons, there is no specific competence for missing persons. There is no process for that. We have to investigate everything. The disappearance may or may not be related to a criminal situation and the issue may be whose competence is this? This has to be defined very quickly, we have been talking about that for a long time, over many cases and so far, nothing has been done about that. To define the competence from the outset. In all cases, the competence should be, at least in children’s cases, the PJ’s. Because many times what is at really the issue is that the disappearance has the parents’ intervention, in situations of divorce and there is a need and they take the children abroad, because it is the PJ that has the competence and the contacts on an international level, namely with Interpol, so the PJ dominates those channels for international cooperation, and from there, right away these cases should be the PJ’s competence, but that has not been defined. This leads to an initial intervention by the criminal police force that is informed of the disappearance. It’s always an intervention, almost always a disastrous intervention, because the more time goes by, the more pieces of evidence, opportunities to collect evidence are lost and only at a much later moment in time the PJ appears. When one thinks it’s an abduction, normally that’s what happens, it’s an abduction, it’s the PJ’s competence, nobody mentions a homicide or a voluntary disappearance, what is mentioned is abduction then it’s the PJ, and when we intervene it’s at a latter moment.<BR/><BR/>What happened in this case of Madeleine, we were called almost when the disappearance took place, only a few hours later, but still things went wrong. Why did they go wrong? Because there is a lack of said procedures concerning these situations. And this sensibility that many investigators have, to understand that an abduction is actually the theft of a person, but it cannot be handled like any theft. For example, all possibilities must be kept open, from a voluntary disappearance to, effectively, abduction, or homicide, or the death of the child. Therefore, it is necessary for the PJ to create this very quickly, I think they are doing that, I don’t think actually, I certain of it, there is already a commission that has been nominated to do that, to define those rules and those procedures for us to act. In my book I even mention it would be enough to follow the English, what the British authorities have concerning these situations. They have much more cases in situations of this type, don’t they? With the number of times that this happens in Portugal, maybe it doesn’t lead to, it hasn’t been that essential element that would lead the Police’s National Directory, or the Ministry of Justice to care for it, to feel the need for these new procedures. That’s where, that’s the manner in which it so often interferes. When there is a likelihood, the PJ acts. The PJ cannot be measured by one case. A PJ is measured through its entire history which is vast and includes many success cases, it is in fact one of the most successful police forces, on an international level, and also in this area of missing children, a very high success rate.<BR/><BR/>DL: In the Madeleine McCann case, who made the decision to send the analyses to Birmingham, to the FSS? In Portugal there is the National Institute [Forensic Medicine].<BR/><BR/>GA: This is the question. At that point in time, we were already feeling the pressure of the British media, we felt incompetent, that was what they said, and anything that we might do, would be questioned. It was a political decision by the PJ, but which was understandable at that point in time and it is still understandable now because it was a way of compromising, an attempt to compromise a British institution with the results that were to be found. If you ask me now if I would do the same today, I don’t think I would. Maybe there would be another laboratory, or at least, I wouldn’t have sent all the samples to that laboratory. But I can also tell you that at the IML, the Institute for Forensics Medicine, there was not the full capacity to carry out all of these tests, namely the low copy number analyses. Only in England, at this laboratory or at other laboratories outside of the country. We could have chosen another laboratory, but we opted for this one. It was a disaster. The decision was not disastrous; it was the tests that were disastrous to say the least.<BR/><BR/>DL: But do those samples still exist?<BR/><BR/>GA: No. They have all been destroyed. From the hair samples, it’s all been destroyed. There is a situation that is reported that is the following: there are several hairs, lots of hair is found in the car boot, in the car that was rented 23 days later, a comparison is made in terms of colour and colouration where they say yes indeed, these could be from the little girl, but then the laboratory says that they don’t manage, it doesn’t have any roots, they cannot define the DNA, they cannot define whether it’s from a living or a dead person, and when a team of Portuguese investigators go to the lab, accompanied by a Portuguese scientist, Dr. Francisco Corte Real, they ask for that hair, they went as far as holding that hair in their hands. And they had that hair, duly stored, that package with the hair, but then a report from the FSS appears in which they realize that they’d better keep them, and that later on they destroyed them in an attempt to define the DNA, or to discover whether it was from a living person or not, and they destroyed all of that hair. It’s a bit hard to understand how in order to define the DNA, or to carry out another test, such a quantity of hair has to be used, like there existed in Portugal as well, and then it wasn’t possible to perform analyses of other types, namely the possibility of sedatives that the little girl might have ingested or was forced to ingest.<BR/><BR/>DL: Among the English officers that participated in this case, there’s Stuart Prior, to what extent can we today, after you left the case, with everything that the press has already published from part of the Public Ministry’s process, to what extent can we say today that Stuart Prior cooperated in this case, or not?<BR/><BR/>GA: Stuart Prior initially appears, he appears as number 2 or number 3 of the British police. The senior officer…, who had a meeting with us, and the first person to come to Portugal on a personal level is him, he always had lots of contacts and interest in the investigation. Stuart Prior appears during a phase, later in Portugal, first it was in England. I particularly wouldn’t like to be in his shoes, with the options that he made in terms of the investigation, and not only that, in his political knowledge. He is a good policeman, he cooperated vastly with us, but it was him who said that he had arrested people in England with much less. So he probably knew the value of these indicia that already existed, but as to whether he made good options, only he can answer those questions.<BR/><BR/>DL: Last question, at this moment in time, in order to reopen the process, what elements are needed, or what could reopen the process and to what extent do you think that there is a political will in Portugal to do it?<BR/><BR/>GA: Now a process of this kind that is archived like this and remains waiting for better evidence, it needs just that: new elements of evidence, which means, new data. There are situations in the process which in our opinion have not been taken into account, which have not even been read or became known to those who had the duty to know it. Namely that statement from the couple of English doctors who mention a vacation in Mallorca, those situations where there were gestures and words indicating the existence of a child molester within that group of people who were on vacation and not even that was taken into account, because they didn’t read it, they had no knowledge. I cannot believe that they read such statements and passed over them.<BR/><BR/>If eventually those persons would make a new statement, again, with other details, certainly there are details that they didn’t remember, the process might be reopened. But also other data, other situations that might lead to the reopening of the process, namely someone from within the group may come to talk about something, for example, the invention of the surveillance scheme; it would have to be reopened. There are situations, like the FSS’s work, if some report appears, which might exist, that in fact there were not only 15 alleles but more than 15 alleles from the little girl’s DNA profile, situations of this type have to lead to the reopening of the process.<BR/><BR/>The political will does not exist; there is no political will to reopen at the moment, because if there was a political will it would mean that there was a political will before the process was closed, in order to continue the investigation. And when a process of this type is archived, with so many diligences to take care of, with so many facts that needed clarification, that’s because there was no will to continue the investigation and that was clear when we left the investigation on the 2nd of October [2007]. That will was lacking, what was necessary was to archive the process, there was a strong will to archive the process. Now, it will be very difficult for the process to be reopened but every citizen has a word to say and there are ways to intervene with the Attorney General in a manner that the process is reopenedAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-64957562456238512062009-02-23T21:33:00.000+00:002009-02-23T21:33:00.000+00:00(Published in today's edition of 24 Hours) Researc...(Published in today's edition of 24 Hours) <BR/><BR/>Research the disappearance of Maddie, besides its huge media worldwide, was marked by a large number of casualties among police and diplomats who attended or played in this case sensitive. <BR/>In Portugal, after the exit of Gonçalo Amaral, out of the case Maddie investigations at the request of British authorities, the Judicial Police (PJ) went further then the national director, Alípio Ribeiro, and several other investigators. <BR/>Guilhermino Encarnação, national deputy director, responsible for the directory from Faro at the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, could be the next confirmed low here. The man who became known in research have prevented by Gonçalo Amaral making the interrogation of Kate McCann at a time when this was, according to several inspectors on site, "ready to talk, is the prolonged low for health reasons and will not return to the more active. <BR/>Despite the health problems of former director, a source inside the PJ Algarve Guilhermino Encarnação moves that will only come from low after the declarations of a former Spanish private detective revealed the existence of a "mole" inside the PJ would have provided, for months, the agency information that Method 3 worked for McCann. <BR/>According to the old operating Method 3, also confirmed by a source from the PJ, the "mole" would not be the director of the PJ in Faro but his close and protected. <BR/>Also part of the British diplomats and police have dropped some, among them the ambassador and consul in Portugal, respectively, John Buck and Bill Henderson. <BR/>Ambassador John Buck was replaced on 10 September 2007, the day following the establishment of Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects. A month earlier, in August of that year, as the Consul in the Algarve, Bill Henderson, was completely removed leaving the diplomatic career. His replacement, Celia Edwards, would also not be for a long time in Portugal. <BR/>The Foreign Office also left Sheree Dodd and Clarence Mitchell, the first responsible for the communication of the English parliament and the second, official spokesman for the couple McCann, maintaining however, for some time, a "privileged relationship" with the British government.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-37448738717589869902009-02-23T21:29:00.000+00:002009-02-23T21:29:00.000+00:00Nancy, I just wanted to confirm that of course in...Nancy, I just wanted to confirm that of course in an UK prosecution those text messages will be used in evidence against Gerry McCann!<BR/><BR/>xxAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-75752114075666970062009-02-23T21:26:00.000+00:002009-02-23T21:26:00.000+00:00Di, well this is going to come as a big surprise,...Di, well this is going to come as a big surprise, it was David Payne who told Kate not to talk to the Social Worker Yvonne Martin. The same man who arranges all these group holidays, because he wants them all nice and close. We have heard what two doctors had to say about a villa holiday he arranged. <BR/><BR/>The other odd thing I noted, in his rog, he confirms to the police the week before that interview in around Apr 08 he had just moved hospital area to go and work in Derby. He used to work really closely with Gerry McCann on medical research, but just before the rogs he has moved away from Gerry. Just like he was wanting to move away from the one thing such people really do not like, Soc Workers who think they know them in a professional capacity. I do not think it is wrong to say there is something really bad about David Payne, not just Kate and Gerry! <BR/><BR/>xxAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.com