tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post8968474779094340734..comments2023-10-31T09:28:27.222+00:00Comments on JUSTICE FOR MADDIE AND THE TWINS: The End of the Debate?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger151125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-50733352580368195742009-01-15T09:14:00.000+00:002009-01-15T09:14:00.000+00:00Thanks Viv :-)That clarifies it for me as I now th...Thanks Viv :-)<BR/><BR/>That clarifies it for me as I now think that I catch your drift. I must have been having one of my many duh! moments! You are certainly correct in saying that it has sparked more debate which is ironic given the title of this thread!<BR/><BR/>Off to have a look at your new thread.<BR/><BR/>xxdylanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13333466162353981152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-34516731597867159012009-01-15T02:10:00.000+00:002009-01-15T02:10:00.000+00:00Maybe there are those on both sides of the debate ...Maybe there are those on both sides of the debate who have wanted to promote a very fixed point of view. That has nothing to do with honestly enquiring of the truth and wanting to find out what happened to Maddie. It has everything to do with the promotion of self interest.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-52557539644751099862009-01-15T01:37:00.000+00:002009-01-15T01:37:00.000+00:00Hiya DillyI am sure I will have a great time in Tu...Hiya Dilly<BR/><BR/>I am sure I will have a great time in Tunisia, my mom and step dad have been there loads of times so I am sure we will find our way around the souks etc!<BR/><BR/>I think it is reasonable to consider all options and by doing that it is clearly flagging up some interesting points of view! <BR/><BR/>My post above was suggesting the end of the debate and two possibilities a or b. In other words it actually has provoked a very interesting debate and of course right on cue Gerry added to that enormously. <BR/><BR/>The simple fact is that from all the evidence we have been allowed to see the death of Maddie in the apt seems the most likely. What I am saying is the other option cannot be ruled out. <BR/><BR/>I think it is important to remember "the evidence we have been allowed to see". We have only been allowed to see just one third of the PJ file and nothing at all of LP, SOCA etc files, they are confidential. So in fact we cannot form a concluded opinion on the evidence we can only say what we feel from what we know but there is an awful lot missing to inform that view. There is no doubt about that. <BR/><BR/>If you talk about the simplest scenario then I would suggest it has to be what I set out in point b above. i.e we know they left her alone from 9 until 10, they were very neglectful parents who had a lot to feel guilty about. By leaving three babes like that and getting one abducted they would not need it explained to them they had committed an imprisonable offence. So that is a very good reason to lie and for their likeminded friends to join them in that lie. We also know they altered the original timeline written out by Russell O'Brien showing there was no check on the McCanns children at all between 9 and 10 to one that had the word "Gerald" written on it and inserted a check by Mat Oldfield at 9.30. In this way as they say they were complying with the Mark Warner child listening system. It is a sad and pathetic excuse but enabled them to avoid being prosecuted for child neglect! <BR/><BR/>If we want truth and justice for Maddie I think we have to be alive to every possibility and remember the Portuguese Police could not back either theory with any great enthusiasm but the AG did say he felt it more than likely the little girl died. He was in fact as confused as I am if you look at what he actually said having viewed all of the evidence in the case. <BR/><BR/>I think what has made me take this stance is a certain idiot who is publishing a book giving 60 reasons which do not even reflect the evidence that we do have and is demanding an inquest on a child whose body has just not been found. This is not the calm and reasonable analysis of a lawyer who should just stick to the known facts. He should also let the police deal with a case where the truth has still to be established. <BR/><BR/>If you read what I say above, I still feel it is very possible the McCanns killed Maddie and I suspect we are getting nearer to knowing what really happened in spite of how Gerry and Clarence would choose to spin it. Such serious neglect that has still led to Maddie's almost certain death and a lot of lies would still merit a substantial custodial sentence particularly if they actually arranged for her to be abducted. But at the end of the day the evidence of the dogs.. and Gerry's reaction to it(!)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-18011069143313606312009-01-15T00:28:00.000+00:002009-01-15T00:28:00.000+00:00Hi Viv!Chuffed you are going to Tunisia - two of m...Hi Viv!<BR/><BR/>Chuffed you are going to Tunisia - two of my freinds went and had a great time and loads of happy memories.<BR/><BR/>Now for the not so fluffy bit:<BR/>'When you put it in the balance my feeling is she may well have been abducted'<BR/><BR/>I'm afraid I am in agreement with Zodiac, but maybe not so well informed as the good lady herself. I am confused as to this statement of yours and understand what you say about having to put a fair and just arguement out to keep this blog balanced and non-judgemental, however, after all of the evidence that we have seen, discussed and thrashed out for well over a year now, I must say that your opinion leaves me speechless! <BR/><BR/>IMO, there is no way that this poor child was abducted. We know this from the cadaver evidence, the contradictory statements from the parents and the Tapas group, the <BR/>fact that it would have been impossible for a window of oportunity of abduction to have been found, the sheer bed of lies that have been force-fed to the press and maybe, most sinister of all, the fact that the parents just 'knew' she had been abducted and not just wandered off when there is no evidence left by an abductee at all!<BR/><BR/>I still, and will always maintain, that Maddie died in that appartment. All of the evidence collected points to that and there is zero evidence to suggest that a an abductee was ever present, ever existed. In the name of science, that makes an abduction impossible.<BR/><BR/>Occham's razor says:<BR/><BR/>I think it is Occham's razor..'it is more accurately referring to the<BR/>simplest solution is more likely when all other things are equal.'<BR/><BR/>In the case of Maddie, when all other things are taken into account, all things being equal, the simplest solution is that she died in that appartment. The evidence points to that. Trying to "fit in" the abduction scenario, with all things being equal, over-complicates the scenario. Therefore, I do not accept that this is the case!<BR/><BR/>If you don't agree with me, that's fine, but don't expect me to send Mr Resumay on to you soon! ;-)<BR/><BR/>xxdylanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13333466162353981152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-58371963651735204792009-01-14T23:12:00.000+00:002009-01-14T23:12:00.000+00:00Hiya BTBut maybe Gerry knows he is going to jail a...Hiya BT<BR/><BR/>But maybe Gerry knows he is going to jail anyway, he looked very troubled to me! Sometimes what lawyers try to do for clients in a very bad situation is mitigate. The PJs certainly have the whip hand with this boy! <BR/><BR/>Anyway maybe I should put in another appearance on the 3As given it really upsets the Pros:<BR/><BR/>Mum21 said...<BR/><BR/> Having just endured reading 50 pages of cr-p about Gerry's trip to Portugal on the 3A's I could only find one sensible post.<BR/> What planet do most of these 3A's posters come from. But I thank God for small mercies...Viv was nowhere to be seen! <BR/><BR/>Waves to you Bum:-))) "I will be back"!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-19748230722994494202009-01-14T23:06:00.000+00:002009-01-14T23:06:00.000+00:00The Portugese can wait and wait and wait and wait ...The Portugese can wait and wait and wait and wait and watch and watch and watch. <BR/><BR/>Now my bed and wife await me :)bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-78205002258655126492009-01-14T23:03:00.000+00:002009-01-14T23:03:00.000+00:00If the Portugese police believe Madeleine is dead ...If the Portugese police believe Madeleine is dead as they do then for Gerry to go and admit negligence he would be put straight into jail. If he was admitting something the Portugese would simply re-open the case(IMO)<BR/><BR/>So my conclusion is he is trying to clean his image for further funds and social acceptance. He is doing it now because at first those around had empathy and support but after a while it is natural to question and they are probing. In other words he has to be in Portugal in his mind to prove to them he is innocent and he has nothing to be scared of etc.bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-41129896146630973732009-01-14T22:58:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:58:00.000+00:00Thanks Zodiac !His return today and more expected ...Thanks Zodiac !<BR/><BR/>His return today and more expected just re-inforce my belief in your views. (that the police are still investigating)<BR/><BR/><BR/>I actually find it quite extraordinary that people apparently genuinely believe we would not still be investigating this matter! What is abundantly apparent is Kate and Gerry have committed some very serious crimes against their daughter and are a very peculiar couple. This has results in the almost certain death of a little British girl abroad. To suggest this would not excite the continuing attention of the police until they crack this couple is extraordinary IMO!<BR/><BR/>xxAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-63529938036390613152009-01-14T22:46:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:46:00.000+00:00Hi BTWell good point why accept what we are told!I...Hi BT<BR/><BR/>Well good point why accept what we are told!<BR/><BR/>It could certainly be the case he had a meeting with lawyers and the PJ but that would be contrary to the statement they have issued that they will not re-open the process without more evidence. Hence I said earlier he may be prepared to make specific admissions to get that. Whether they will be honest admissions is another matter. By that I meant perhaps he would admit that they did alter the timelines to try and cover negligence. As far as I know these offences have a time bar on them in Portugal. So he would reason it is OK to admit they failed to co-operate by admitting Maddie was left alone for a whole hour because he can no longer be prosecuted for child neglect and it would mean the PJ had to re-open the case. If they do that he and Clarence will then say, told you so, it was an abduction, see the PJ are investigating that again now! I had to learn to get into the way a criminal mind works and that can be like a game of chess with someone like Gerry, always working out several moves ahead.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-80874947502351524242009-01-14T22:43:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:43:00.000+00:00In my mind I cannot see how almost 20 months on th...In my mind I cannot see how almost 20 months on those around him would not be asking him awkward questions.bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-28609205505787861712009-01-14T22:42:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:42:00.000+00:00Hopefully we will find out soon !!Hopefully we will find out soon !!bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-64307424237741329992009-01-14T22:39:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:39:00.000+00:00He has to be there for one of two options (IMO)1) ...He has to be there for one of two options (IMO)<BR/><BR/>1) Us mere mortals have been told he is visiting his lawyers to help find Madeleine blah blah BUT it could well be he has been requested to return by the Portugese.ie A legal thing.<BR/><BR/>2) Maybe the people who are giving them the funds or his extended family have requested that they co-operate in the investigation in order to receive further funds and support. These people may now be doubting his/her innocence and this is an answer from him to show them he is innocent in order to regain social acceptance from the family and further funding from his backers and third parties. ie He wants those close to him to stop questioning him and he is returning to clean his image. In short, he is probably guilty but this is a way of trying to clean his image for those close to him.<BR/>ie an image thing.bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-61016078288676788742009-01-14T22:38:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:38:00.000+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-13063722379141313252009-01-14T22:31:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:31:00.000+00:00My own view of why he has to be there Di is becaus...My own view of why he has to be there Di is because he is fighting with his lawyers to save himself and Kate and not just from public opinion!<BR/><BR/>xxAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-3438136682735441272009-01-14T22:30:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:30:00.000+00:00Viv,I am not saying that you now believe it was an...Viv,<BR/><BR/>I am not saying that you now believe it was an abduction and do understand why it has to be mentioned. I personally do not believe they or one of them killed her physically/intentionally (but I do not know and that does not mean that is not what did happen) I am following the same conclusions as GA have done since 4/5/07. Eddie and Keela and everything else just keep on confirm my beliefs. As I have said before I have faith in your belief that this is an ongoing investigation. His return today and more expected just re-inforce my belief in your views. After all if M3 are guilty of false sightings etc then surely they are guilty by association and would have to be questioned regarding this matter. I am sure time will tell and the PT Press/Media/Posters will keep us updated and squash the Pinkpoops McPropaganda like a bug!<BR/><BR/>BBFN read you all tomorrow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-2094862838056291742009-01-14T22:25:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:25:00.000+00:00It is almost like they staged everything to make a...It is almost like they staged everything to make an abduction possible or look like it was possible. Where does that take us? Think of the PJs question to Kate did you want to hand over custody..<BR/><BR/>Think of how quickly they had everything in place, the lawyers, the trademarking, the fund. I think I have always been against this being "an accident". Whatever happened, it seems to me, it was very possibly by design. <BR/><BR/>I have said in the past that drugging your children to get them to sleep so you can leave them, being a qualified doctor or even anaesthetist into the bargain, looks very close to murder and as you say that remark of Kate's demonstrates real cruelty. Quite unfathomable really and the thing I think Wizard is hinting at, she does not even seem to realise it is a bizarre thing to say!<BR/><BR/>xxAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-3266065522694855242009-01-14T22:22:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:22:00.000+00:00BT Just as I was leaving you have to ask WHY does ...BT <BR/><BR/>Just as I was leaving you have to ask WHY does he HAVE to be there?<BR/><BR/>You will have to anwser me now or I will never sleep pleeease.Dihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336817965235588462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-728200151369896792009-01-14T22:20:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:20:00.000+00:00Hiya ZodiacI have by no means lost sight of all th...Hiya Zodiac<BR/><BR/>I have by no means lost sight of all the reasons why it clearly looks like they killed Maddie! <BR/><BR/>I think I am just letting my own thought processes of late into the public domain because it widens the discussion as to what may have happened. <BR/><BR/>I am most certainly still saying that come what may, these two are the original parents from hell! <BR/><BR/>I do believe the twins were drugged and there is every reason to think that Maddie was also. This is not just a matter of what we think it is what the evidence tells us. They would not wake up in spite of screaming and Kate kept checking their breathing, Gerry's smirking ear pulling, left me in absolutely no doubt he was lying and sometimes very angry, bouncing off the set. When all else fails anger can take over. That would have made it much easier to cart her off. It is not in any doubt either that those children woke up crying, left alone, and they went and left them again. They admit to that! It is also clearly admitted they could have been drugged, Gerry himself said so! <BR/><BR/>I think deep down you know what I think, but have to offer these thoughts up as well as part of a sensible debate. In fact sometimes what I think about Kate and Gerry and what they are capable of is quite unprintable!<BR/><BR/>xxAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-27407226332110429752009-01-14T22:19:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:19:00.000+00:00The question is why does he HAVE to be there?The question is why does he HAVE to be there?bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-29176768514384818332009-01-14T22:17:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:17:00.000+00:00Off nowNite allxOff now<BR/><BR/>Nite all<BR/><BR/>xDihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336817965235588462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-23566786964720519192009-01-14T22:13:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:13:00.000+00:00He does not want to be in Portugal. He is there be...He does not want to be in Portugal. He is there because he has to be.bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-21587391492211912992009-01-14T22:11:00.001+00:002009-01-14T22:11:00.001+00:00ZodiacI agree, abduction is something I am not hap...Zodiac<BR/><BR/>I agree, abduction is something I am not happy with.<BR/><BR/>However, if someone could prove me wrong, as a mother, I would be more than happy. Sadly I don't think so but I wait in hope.Dihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336817965235588462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-62707817442917032662009-01-14T22:11:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:11:00.000+00:00Viv An abduction takes out Eddie and Keela's evide...Viv <BR/>An abduction takes out Eddie and Keela's evidence with the bloodspats and all the rest of it like washing cuddle cat. I dont think you are seeing straight tonight !!!!bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-46006534568001508592009-01-14T22:09:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:09:00.000+00:00Just been reading back to earlier posts about the ...Just been reading back to earlier posts about the Evening STandard/Mail whipping up support and ahem cash for poor Kate and Gez with an unreserved they did not do it, sorry ! How bloody sickening, that must explain Gez saying they had limited resources and forgetting he actually had £800,000, that will be another bollosin for you Pinkish Hue (now Purple we gave him a complex about his army of pink shirts). <BR/><BR/>Looking at one of Gerry's remarks, this is quite inexplicable but also interesting. Firstly, what went on in the past is Maddie disappeared without trace and as he says that is done. But he now wants to focus on what can still be done, just missed the next bit to restore his reputation and get him out of trouble with the police. The "by and large" is interesting, this suggests to me that in his own mind, he knows damn fine that what happened in the past still holds really bad consequences for him! Focus on what can still be done for the search is just one of those meaningless phrases. "the search" is not the issue, it is the fact his daughter has disappeared without trace and that happened almost two years ago. Why would he be wanting to focus on what can still be done when he has done precisely nothing in Portugal for the last 16 months, how does he expect the public to accept that demonstrates any concern for his little girl who was "abducted by a gang of Portuguese paedophiles". Sometimes I am not sure if he is a psychopath or whether he has just completely lost the plot altogether. I am sure all of this has been a terrible blow to his ego and ability to obfuscate, plot and confuse with his superior intellect. If there is one thing such people hate it is another who can see through such a person, like Goncalo Amaral can! Still Gerry has lost with trying to bury that man, he is riding on a wave of popularity and about to now achieve high political office also. Not for you though eh Gez, shame, shame, the road to fame and fortune must move on! <BR/><BR/>"We want to make it absolutely clear what's gone on in the past is, by and large, done and we very, very much want to focus on what can still be done for the searchAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507323081802465917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8388977942755921926.post-13672665528843239602009-01-14T22:08:00.000+00:002009-01-14T22:08:00.000+00:00VivThey have some nice lakes in Portugal off the b...Viv<BR/>They have some nice lakes in Portugal off the beaten track I hear ! Not least you could meet Claudia and go jogging on the beach together.<BR/><BR/>A reminder to all that the first person at the scene of a crime is the first suspect. There are people on that trip clever enough to know that and it may not be a coincidence that it was Kate who 'found' Madeleine missing.She did not return to Portugal yesterday did she.bath theoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454382080442358862noreply@blogger.com