13 Jan 2009
The End of the Debate?
Kate McCann: "We were checking on the children several times an hour"
You are a wicked liar, Kate McCann!
Listen to her matter of fact lies to the Guardian here:
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/01/audio-kate-mccann-talks-to-steve-boggan.html
See Gerry McCann telling some more, back in Portugal to find his daughter having been missing for well over a year!
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/01/gerry-mccann-interviewed-in-lisbon.html
As ever, Thanks Joana, for the real news!
Viv xxxxxx
Hi All,
I just wanted to write this because I have come to a decision about the blog.
There is no more news on the McCann case, we have debated every issue and we basically form the overall view that it is likely the McCanns are responsible for her death.
So what is left here or at other forums such as the 3 Arguidos that can be discussed?
Well very little really it would seem. As you may know I have had quite a debate on there where I have indicated it is my view the police will still be investigating this matter. I am not going to set out my thoughts as to why that may be here, they are very well set out at:
http://www.the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=26608
I have made my feelings very plain about the conduct of Tony Bennett. His approach is not an alternative to getting Justice for Madeleine at all.
There are just two options really in my opinion
a) In some way the McCanns are responsible for Madeleine's death. If this is the case the British Police are responsible for investigating that and ultimately putting the McCanns on trial. It may be that nothing very much is happening in that investigation because there is little further the police can do to obtain satisfactory evidence to support charges or it may be the case is so complex it is still being investigated. We really do not know and we are not going to be told. As I pointed out on 3 As last night, the Chief Constable of Leicester Police and other agencies vehemently opposed the McCanns application in the High Court to obtain the file. Even the Attorney General intervened in this. This does suggest to me there are very serious issues that are under investigation that just cannot be disclosed to the public.
b) Madeleine actually was abducted. On the basis of everything we have discussed on this blog I have to say I think it very unlikely but it cannot be completely dismissed in my opinion. The McCanns did leave her alone in between 9 and 10. There is a question mark about doors and windows being open or not. We have seen that a second timeline was written out where another check was inserted by Mat Oldfield at 9.30. This clearly suggests an intention to deceive and not tell the truth about what happened to Madeleine. The question is why would they do that? In the abduction scenario they were in Portugal, the whole group, and they faced possible hefty prison sentences in relation to neglecting all of those children, most especially the McCanns in light of what happened. So that is a simple explanation as to why they chose to lie. If that is the case the sad fact is they did nothing to convince the police Maddie actually had been abducted or help in her recovery. Undoubtedly massive time was expended on investigating both scenarios. Undoubtedly the McCanns and their friends have told a lot of lies that has prevented the police from getting to the truth. They never wanted Justice for Madeleine or her recovery, that much is for sure. With all that money, the McCanns employed a bunch of useless fraud investigators and only did that AFTER they had been made arguidos. Kate exercised her right to silence and refused to answer police questions, even when warned this would prevent the police properly investigating matters.
That is a sad indictment upon these people. But I think we have to face the fact, Maddie is not going to be recovered either dead or alive. The McCanns should in no way, be surprised that we, the general public, firmly believe they killed Madeleine. We have sought to achieve Justice by countering the spin they have put forth particularly via Clarence Mitchell. We have all been very public in our condemnation and the powers that be are clearly in no doubt that we wanted to see justice for little Maddie. We have let Kate and Gerry know personally via the internet that we just do not accept their explanations and appealed for all members of the group to tell the truth. Beyond that we cannot lawfully go because that amounts to harassment of a criminal nature. Seeking to incite the McCanns to sue for libel, bombarding them with letters and pamphlets, starting a private prosecution against them, insisting on an Inquest when there is no definitive proof she is dead or any real trace of her body.
Seeking to whip up a baying mob is not the lawful way to achieve justice and I would appeal to everyone now, please, to let this matter rest. If Maddie was abducted the McCanns have now been punished more than enough for what they did. If they killed her the police will never close their file. There is nothing more that we can do.
In a few days I will make this blog members only both for viewing and comments just in case anyone wants to comment further.
But finally I would appeal to anyone reading this to remember, the Police have a duty to promote law and order. They cannot and will not allow any member of the public to attack Kate and Gerry McCann. They are now entitled to be left alone and not suffer fear of personal intimidation or violence. Please leave them alone and do not join an unlawful crusade. If they have killed Madeleine they will either have to live with that or ultimately face justice for it.
Viv xx
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
151 comments:
I had always believed, wrongly, that it was on the McCanns original application in May 07 that she was made a Ward, but on looking at this see this happened on 2 April 2008. Subsequently the McCanns then issued applications and summonses against the Chief Constable heard in July 08 which of course they agreed to withdraw given the opposition they faced from both the Chief Constable and the AG. The Ch Cons stressed in July 08 the criminal investigation was continuing.
IN THE MATTER OF MADELEINE BETH MCCANN
By John Hirst
Court 20 Before MRS JUSTICE HOGG Monday, 7 July, 2008 At 10:30 AM IN OPEN COURT FD07P01121 McCann Applications/Summonses in Court as in Chambers IN THE MATTER OF MADELEINE BETH MCCANN
Mr Tim Scott, Q.C., International Family Law Group, acting for Gerry and Kate McCann: Madeleine McCann is a ward of Court. She had her 5th birthday on 12 May 2008. Gerry and Kate are not here as they are on holiday with their twins, Sean and Amelie. Who could deserve a holiday more after a period more traumatic than any family should have to cope with.
Mrs Justice Hogg: I did not expect to see them.
Mr Tim Scott continues: As the world knows, Madeleine was abducted from an apartment at a resort in Praia Da Luz in Portugal on 03 May 2007. No one has ever been arrested or charged in connection with her abduction. Her whereabouts are completely unknown. There is no proof that she is alive, but there is not a scrap of evidence that she is not. After the abduction Gerry and Kate McCann set in motion their own search with professional assistance. A Fund was set up to finance the search and many people, often those who could barely afford it, have given generously to that fund. Simultaneously a massive international police search was launched. Since the McCann family lives in Leicestershire, the Leicestershire Constabulary has been the lead force among UK law enforcement agencies. Gerry and Kate would like, through me, to acknowledge the enormous effort which has been devoted both by the Leicestershire Constabulary and by other law enforcement agencies to the search for Madeleine. They would also like to thank many individual officers for the kindness and concern which they have shown to the family throughout this terrible time. Proceedings were started in this Court by a summons dated 17 May 2007. The sole purpose of the proceedings has been to call upon the extensive powers of the High Court to require assistance to be given in the search for a missing child. It is of course quite routine in the Family Division for such Orders to be made. For example in an appropriate case (though not this one) an Order can be made against a mobile phone company to produce the call record of a phone. It was never the parents’ wish that the proceedings should become adversarial. On 22 May 2007 an Order was made by you in very wide terms requiring any person on whom the Order was served to disclose to the parents’ solicitors any information which might assist in identifying Madeleine’s whereabouts. The Order contained a clause entitling any person served with it to apply to discharge or vary it. Among the bodies on whom the Order was served was the Leicestershire Constabulary, who immediately expressed doubts as to whether the Order was intended to or could properly extend to them. In due course the parents’ solicitors issued a further application seeking clarification of this. On 02 April 2008 you gave directions which were intended to lead to a hearing at which this question would be resolved. This is that hearing. As the preparations for this hearing advanced, it became clear that the Leicestershire Constabulary and other law enforcement agencies, while personally sympathetic to the position of the McCann’s objected on principle to the disclosure of at least the great bulk of the information in their possession. They raised a number of legal arguments relating among other matters to the public interest in maintaining the confidentiality of police investigations. Both the Serious Organised Crimes Agency and the Attorney-General intervened in the proceedings in order to advance their own arguments on issues of public policy. It became clear that if today’s hearing proceeded on a fully contested basis a number of areas of law of great interest to lawyers would have had to be considered. However Gerry and Kate McCann are not lawyers and so far as they were concerned the legal proceedings were moving further and further from the only matter which concerns them: the search for Madeleine. The proceedings were in danger of becoming a distraction from rather than an aid to that single goal. Also there have been two recent developments which have greatly affected Gerry and Kate’s views on these proceedings. The first is that the Leicestershire Constabulary has now agreed to release an important, though limited, part of the information which they have been seeking; I shall come back to that. The second is that, as has been widely publicised, it is expected that Gerry and Kate’s status in Portugal as arguidos or suspects will be lifted soon. When that happens it is hoped and expected that a substantial further amount of information will be released. Since Gerry and Kate have always wanted to work with all law enforcement agencies on a cooperative basis, they decided to withdraw the application against the Leicestershire Constabulary. We therefore come to Court today to ask you to approve an Order which all parties consent to. The first part of the Order recites that the Chief Constable of Leicestershire has agreed to provide by today a document in accordance with Paragraph 50 of the Skeleton Argument which has been presented to the Court on his behalf. That Paragraph is at 34. It says that the Chief Constable is currently preparing a document which will provide the parents with the contact details of persons that have been forwarded to the investigation by the parents or those acting for them. This document will also contain a brief resume of the information that it is believed the person informed the parents or those acting for them that they wished to pass on to the investigation. I said earlier that this is an important but limited amount of the information which Gerry and Kate had hoped to obtain. I would like to explain why it is important. Although the Leicestershire Constabulary were quick to set up a major incident room and to provide a telephone number which anyone with information could call, there was a period of time before this became widely known. During that time Gerry and Kate’s solicitor, Ms Ann Thomas of The International Family Law Group, who sits in front of me, had already been retained. Her firm’s number was publicised and a large number of people called in. All of these callers were given the number which the Leicestershire Constabulary had set up for the purpose. The solicitors thought it right that the police should be receiving it. In fact with few exceptions the solicitors did not even retain any notes on what the callers were saying or even their contact details. So what the Chief Constable is now voluntarily providing is the contact details and a summary of the information provided by a substantial number of people who were among the first to try to help the investigation. It is because these were on the whole people who came forward to volunteer information in the period immediately after the abduction that it is likely that the information which they provided will be most helpful. So on that basis Gerry and Kate McCann are content to withdraw their application for any wider disclosure. Paragraph 4 of the Order provides that the documents in the case shall remain confidential to the Court. This of course is completely normal in wardship. An exception is made to enable the Chief Constable at his discretion to reveal the contents of his evidence and the legal arguments advanced on his behalf. The parents understand that the points of principle which have arisen are of wider interest to law enforcement agencies, and they would not want to restrict proper discussion of those matters which might have a beneficial purpose in future investigations. They are confident that the Chief Constable will exercise his discretion in a responsible way. The search for Madeleine continues. The fund which was established in May 2007 known as “Madeleine’s Fund – Leaving No Stone Unturned” remains closely involved in the search. It always has been and remains Gerry and Kate’s purpose to leave no stone unturned. This was why they asked for the assistance of this Court in the first place, and this is why, in the light of developing circumstances, they now withdraw their application. We hope that you will accept, and will feel able to say that they have behaved completely properly and responsibly at every stage.
Mr James Lewis QC, for the Chief Constable of Leicestershire: We would like you to approve the Order. As the Court heard, any person served with the Order should disclose any information that would help to find Madeleine . We wish to make it clear that the primary aim is to ensure that no stone is left unturned. There must be a balance between the rights of Plaintiffs to have as much information as possible and the risk of compromising the continuing criminal investigation, damaging future international co-operation, and a potential breach of Portuguese law. The parents get information that emanates from them and there is no breach of Portuguese law. The Chief Constable asks the Court to make clear that previous Orders don’t apply. The case is not closed. The Chief Constable wishes to reiterate anyone with information should come forward to the police. The amount of information is 81 pieces of information out of 11,000 pieces of information on the computer system.
Representative of the Attorney General: The Attorney General intervened as Guardian of the public interest and has no further comment to make.
Mrs Justice Hogg: Madeleine went missing on 3 May 2007 just a few days before her 4th birthday, while she was holidaying with her family in the Algarve in Portugal. On 17 May 2007 Madeleine’s parents invoked the jurisdiction of this Court under the Inherent Jurisdiction of the Court, and The Child Abduction and Custody Act, and the Hague Convention. They sought various orders and directions aimed at ascertaining the whereabouts and recovery of Madeleine. I became involved with the proceedings shortly afterwards. On 2 April 2008 Madeleine became a Ward of this Court, and since that date has remained a Ward. At all times jurisdiction was assumed by the Court because, there being no evidence to the contrary, it is presumed Madeleine is alive. She is a British Citizen, and like her parents habitually resident here. The current application was made on 2 April 2008 by the parents seeking disclosure of information and documents from the Chief Constable of Leicestershire to assist them and their own investigations in their search for Madeleine. Such are the complexities of the issues involved other interested parties were invited and joined to the application, and directions given for the hearing today. The parties have reached an accommodation whereby the Chief Constable will provide to Madeleine’s parents contact details of members of the public who had themselves contacted the parents or their solicitors, and which on receipt were immediately passed to the Chief Constable, together with a brief resume of the information given. The parents do not wish to pursue other aspects of the application, and save for the draft consent order being approved by this Court wish to withdraw their application and seek leave to do so. I have no criticism of the parents in making this application. They have behaved responsibly and reasonably throughout. I have considered the documents provided to this Court by the various parties, and have concluded that the agreement reached by the parties is entirely appropriate, and that the parents should be permitted to withdraw the balance of their application. I will make the Order by Consent as sought. In particular paragraph 1 of the Order made on the 22 May 2007 shall be varied with the words: “The terms of this paragraph shall not apply to the Chief Constable of Leicestershire or any other United Kingdom law enforcement agency. And for the avoidance of doubt all the evidence submitted to the Court and the Case Summaries and Skeleton Arguments remain confidential to the Court save that the Chief Constable may use his discretion to disclose his evidence, case summary and skeleton arguments filed in this Court and the Orders of 22 May 2007, 2 April 2008 and this Order. Any other documents and their contents are not to be disclosed to any person or published save in accordance with Orders already made by the Court or further Order of the Court”. It may be noted that neither of the Parents is present today. I let it be known last week that providing their legal team was fully instructed neither parent need be present, and I would not criticise or bear any ill-feeling towards them if they chose to stay away. It was my decision as they have suffered enough, and I wished to ease their burden. I know the police authorities and other official law enforcement agencies in this country, in Portugal and elsewhere have striven and will continue to strive to trace Madeleine. I urge anyone who has any information however small or tenuous to come forward now so that further enquiries can be made. There is, of course, as least one person who knows what has happened to Madeleine, and where she may be found. I ponder about that person: whether that person has a heart and can understand what it must be like for Madeleine to have been torn and secreted from her parents and siblings whom she loves and felt secure with, and whom no doubt misses and grieves for. Whether that person has a conscience or any feeling of guilt, remorse or even cares about the hurt which has been caused to an innocent little girl: whether that person has a faith and belief, and what explanation or justification that person will give to God. I entreat that person whoever and wherever you may be to show mercy and compassion, and come forward now to tell us where Madeleine is to be found. I hope and pray that Madeleine will be found very soon alive and well. I confirm the Wardship and Madeleine will remain a Ward of Court until further Order of the Court. The case will be reserved to myself subject to my availability.
- Transcript ends -
Notes (i) Colour Coding for Sources: International Family Law Group (re Tim Scott address)
http://www.iflg.uk.com/documents/7_july_08_address.pdf
International Family Law Group (re Justice Hogg judgement)
http://www.iflg.uk.com/documents/Judgement0708.pdf
Hi all,
'WE do not know the real facts anymore than Mr Bennett does, do we!
Viv x
Monday, 12 January 2009 19:01:00 o'clock GMT'
Viv,
Above copied from another thread. I agree with you.
I am not entirely surely of TB's motives. I would not buy his booklet not because I feel he his out to make money but purely because I do not believe the child was abducted therefore I do not need to read 60 reasons why she could not have been. I have not had time to read all of the posts where you and he are discussing with each other however I have read in the past few weeks his threads (imo the 3A's seems more like the TB's than 3 A's) I really think GA should be careful with his association I would not like him to be made a mockery of again. GA imo has gained a lot of respect from posters all over the world it would be a shame to lose it now. Although I am sure some are doing backward flips at the very thought of it. I like to pop in and read this blog and exchange a few views. As I have said before I have faith in your views i.e.: this is still an ongoing investigation in the UK. I respect law and order and always will although I will always use my entitlement of Freedom of Speech and will not allow those who think they can control Police Forces, The Press/Media and the Internet to tell me otherwise and deprive me of having opinion and freethinking. If you close the blog for members only I respect your decision.
BBFN
Article below from 3 A's:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/podcasts/20 ... o_ste.html
Audio: Kate McCann talks to Steve Boggan
Madeleine McCann, three, went missing from an apartment in a Portuguese holiday resort 99 days ago. Her mother Kate McCann tells Steve Boggan why she and her husband Gerry remain optimistic. (5min 06s)
August 10, 2007 1:57 PM
SB: Tomorrow, Madeleine Mccann will have been missing for 100 days. The 3-year old went missing from a holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort of PdL as her parents, Kate and Gerry, dined with friends nearby. Kate McCann told the Guardian’s Steve Boggan about the moment she returned to the flat and discovered that Madeleine wasn’t there.
KMcC: We were checking on the children several times an hour and erm ... I’d gone back to check them and it, you know, was erm quiet and erm .... I went into the room and er......... Madeleine wasn’t there......erm ...... you know .... and I just thought,,, can (inaudible) look and thinking she must be, she must be in her bed and er there was that horrible... panic and fear and erm... there are other things that I can’t..... describe to you because it’s part of the investigation but erm... I mean there was not , there was no shadow of doubt that Madeleine had been taken to me and that’s why the panic and the fear was so immediate and real and erm... it was awful, you know, and erm.... you know, I guess I felt I’d let her down, desperately sorry really erm ... that we weren’t there the minute she was taken...... you know and we from a kind of er.. panic and fear to that total feeling of helplessness .... and not knowing what to do... and erm ... it was just awful really.
SB: This week the Portuguese police were examining spots of blood in the apartment, but the McCanns remain optimistic
KMcC: Imean, in the first few days we erm thought that was the worst and it was just awful, I mean it was just the worst experience that I’ve ever...... erm .....now I guess (noise) you see I mean we’ve got more hope now than we did in those first few days and erm... don’t get me wrong, we’re not blinkered and er...... obviously we still have those dark thoughts but they’re not helpful, you know, they’re not helping us and they’re not helping Madeleine.... and sometimes you’ve just got to blank them out. I guess, if we’re honest, ...... you know if Madeleine wasn’t alive now then we’d rather know now....... but then, you know, .....we don’t know that, you know and we’re very .... hopeful, in fact we’re probably, as I say, more hopeful than we were at the beginning. And what we don’t want to do is look back and regret not having done absolutely everything we can.
SB: Some people in PdL want the McCanns to leave. They say their continued presence there is bad for the town’s image, but Kate McCann told the Guardian, they’re staying put.
KMcC: ...(I mean) er it’s a difficult one and I think you’ll just know when the time’s right and it’s not right for me at the moment, erm.... I do feel closer to Madeleine here, close to the investigation. We don’t know where Madeleine is, you know, and there’s no reason to say that she’s close to here than she is to the UK but she’s (inaud).. it’s just a feeling I have at the moment. There are day’s when you think to yourself, how can I manage and to function. ....and’ here people from outside looking in, cos I know I’ve done it myself in the past when there’s been sort of similar cases or things that happen to children, you think how does anybody cope with that. And you can’t understand how anyone can function, certainly like the first 4 days we didn’t, you know.... didn’t eat, didn’t sleep and er you know ... your body comes back to normal a little bit..... you have to, you have to keep going, so, ...... I mean, er , as soon as I wake up I’m aware Madeleine isn’t there, you know, and I usually and know I say a very quick prayer to meself before I get up and ... obviously we’ve got Sean and Amelie so erm.. they get up fairly early and it’s a case you’ve got to make things as normal as possible for them, you know, and they need love and protecting parents as well.
SB: Relations between the McCanns and the Portuguese media have deteriorated in recent days, with hostile lines of speculation about the couple.
KMcC: I mean, criticism’s very hard, you know and er you know it’s very hurtful. It’s totally unhelpful. Erm ....... oh it’s, you know, considering what we’re going through already and how awful it is... it does seem very cruel but, I mean, when I’m kind of thinking logically, I think you know I know that this is a small group of people, you know. Huge majority of the public are behind us and they’ve been fantastic and.....I’m so so grateful for everyone that’s come up and wished us well. You know, I’ve had thousands of letters from other mums and stuff and er every line of every letter they’ve written has helped us, it’s helped us get through another day. You know you’ve got to remember who’s committing the crime here, it’s er it’s that person that was watching us and broke in and took Madeleine out of the bed.
----------
Just a few of my obsvervations from the article above which is an audible interview not a press article, straight from the mouth of the mother who claims her child was abducted which confirms my personal beliefs and my freethinking opinion.
KMcC: 'I’d gone back to check them and it, you know, was erm quiet and erm .... I went into the room and er......... Madeleine wasn’t there......erm ...... you know .... and I just thought,,, can (inaudible) look and thinking she must be, she must be in her bed and er there was that horrible... panic and fear and erm... there are other things that I can’t..... describe to you because it’s part of the investigation but erm... I mean there was not , there was no shadow of doubt that Madeleine had been taken to me'
WELL THE STATUS THAT PREVENTED YOU FROM DIVULGING HOW YOU KNEW JUST KNEW WAS LIFTED ON THE 21/07/08 YET NOT A PEEP FROM YOU EXPLAINING IN GREAT DETAIL HOW YOU KNEW JUST KNEW!
KMcC: 'in fact we’re probably, as I say, more hopeful than we were at the beginning. And what we don’t want to do is look back and regret not having done absolutely everything we can.'
WHAT ABOUT PHYSICALLY SEARCHING?
WHAT ABOUT THE 48 QUESTIONS WITH NO REPLY FROM YOU?
WHAT ABOUT NOT RETURNING WHEN ASKED BY THE PJ TO TAKE PART IN A RECONSTRUCTION?
WHAT ABOUT M3?
'KMcC: ...(I mean) er it’s a difficult one and I think you’ll just know when the time’s right and it’s not right for me at the moment, erm.... I do feel closer to Madeleine here, close to the investigation. We don’t know where Madeleine is, you know, and there’s no reason to say that she’s close to here than she is to the UK but she’s (inaud).. it’s just a feeling I have at the moment. There are day’s when you think to yourself, how can I manage and to function. ....'
WELL YOU SAID THE ABOVE ON THE 10/08/07 YET SCUTTLED OFF BACK TO THE UK AS QUICK AS YOU COULD ON THE 10/09/07!
KMcC: 'You know you’ve got to remember who’s committing the crime here, it’s er it’s that person that was watching us and broke in and took Madeleine out of the bed.'
Hmmmm HOW CAN ANYONE BREAK IN TO AN UNLOCKED PROPERTY? ALSO ON 10/08/07 YOU STILL IMPLY THERE WAS A BREAK-IN TO THE FLAT. WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT A BREAK-IN? AND WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THE CHILDREN WHO WERE THEN AGED 3 AND UNDER WERE LEFT IN THE LOCKED/UNLOCKED FLAT TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES WHILST YOU THE PARENTS ATE AND DRANK IN A TAPAS BAR, CHECKING OR NOT? IS THAT NOT NEGLECTFUL? IS THAT NOT CRIMINAL?
AND OF COURSE ALL THE BELOW WAFFLE CONTAINED WITHIN THAT INTERVIEW IS CONVINCING ISN'T IT???
erm ... you know, was erm and erm ....er......... ......erm .....you know .... er erm... there are other things that I can’t..... describe to you because it’s part of the investigation but erm... erm... you know, and erm.... you know, erm ... you know er.. and erm ...erm .erm ..... erm... er...... you know... you know, ..... you know and we’re very .... (I mean) er ..erm.... you know.... er you know ... er.. you know, erm.. you know,you know and er you know. .. Erm ....... oh it’s, you know, I think you know, you know.. stuff and er it’s er it’s that person that was watching us and broke in and took Madeleine out of the bed.
Viv
You are absolutely right there is very little more we can say that has not already been said.
I believe the McCann’s have acted in an alien way from the first time they chose to neglect their children.
What followed after they said she had been taken was sickening in the extreme with the McCann’s being turned into the victims and Madeleine all but forgotten by them and the people who should be speaking on behalf of a missing child.
Gerry and Kate and all the people who have lied for them and helped them cover up have to live with what they have done. If Madeleine did not die in apartment 3A there was no reason for all the different time lines and lies about the shutters being forced and Egg Man wandering off with her while Jane went back to her apartment to check on her sick daughter passing Gerry and Jez who never saw her…
If Madeleine is still alive all their lies and refusal to answer any questions the spin and M3 is even worse there is not a decent parent in the world who would lie or not help the police if their child was really missing and this is what has made me question everything they have said and done since the day she went missing.
God knows what Tony Bennett is up to and the law must follow its own course and I can’t believe they are not still being investigated because until what happened to Madeline is known No stone should be left unturned Madeline deserves that… She seems to have turned into a money making scheme and for some and after reading how TB behaved in the Lubbock case IMHO the man is after glory and attention.
The only thing that matters to the McCann’s and their followers is they get away with whatever it is they have done. I don’t care if they never spend a day in prison living with the guilt or if they don’t even posses that emotion waiting for one of their friends to crack and spill all is worse than going to jail and knowing how long they have to serve at the moment every day every hour they know there is a 1/7 chance one of their friends will do the right thing and then there are all the other people who have said things on their behalf that might not have been true? Not a nice way to live…
I believe Madeleine died in 3A the evidence of the dogs shows a body was there but ultimately it is the McCann’s who have made me believe she is dead and they are relieved that they thought their plan worked. The happy snaps of them are sickening especially on what would have been her birthday, I cant believe that a body language expert would not fall off their chair at this happy display not a brief smile but pure joy. If I did not know better I would assume they had just received the wonderful news that she was safe and were on their way to see her and people are questioning these pictures now.
If Madeleine is in the hands of a paedophile ring then Kate refusing to answer questions, Gerry saying there is no reason to believe she has been harmed and all the other lies that have been told by them and on their behalf are beyond evil as they have spun the investigation so much there is little chance she will ever be found.
There is a huge reward out there and it is hardly ever mentioned they release an appeal video of her a year younger than when she was snatched instead of aging her image. When her image is aged she is smiling and not a word from them about how wrong a smile is considering where they want us to believe she is.
Maybe it is time to close the blog or at least leave it open to members only so we can say hello occasionally and if anything ever changes we will know where everyone is…. Vigilantism is wrong I have spoken out against two parents who have a missing child not something I ever thought I would do in a million years as it is cruel when they are in the worse place they could ever be. But there was something about this from the very beginning that was not right and as time went on and they were not even criticised for neglect in fact they were praised for doing what we all do (not any parent I know) it soon became obvious they were lying and felt Madeleine came second to them.
The Campaign of bullying on behalf of Team McCann was a huge mistake RP and her evil bunch of thugs tried to push us away but in fact just made me stick around and realise you don’t have to bully if you are telling the truth so they could say what the wanted to the more they said vile things the more I knew just how desperate they were to shut me up. The first time it happened I was physically sick but it made me stronger and no longer was stupid enough to think any of them really cared the whole agenda was to attack and destroy and I don’t bow to thugs and bullies.
I hope no one try’s to take the law into their own hands Madeleine deserves some dignity and her parents don’t want to give it to her taking away her victim status and slotting themselves in as the victims. Gerry’s blogs were all about how wonderful he and Kate are Madeleine was hardly mentioned. If people follow someone and the public see a bunch of trouble makers or worse if someone oversteps the mark then that is what the public will remember and it will be poor McCann’s all over again and from what I am seeing at the moment people don’t believe the McCann’s and any sympathy is for Madeleine…
I hope no one ever thinks it is worth neglecting a child for a night in the bar again children are god’s gift and should be cherished we see all to often children neglected abused and murdered by parents and it is never acceptable no matter who the parent is…
Thanks for the blog Viv I know it has been hard work but I think it has shown most of the rumours turned out to be true I still cant get over some of this especially Kate not answering any questions not IMHO the reaction of an innocent woman or even a loving Mother….
At the end of the day who cares what I think it won’t help Madeleine and this 3 year old little girl is all that matters in this whole evil mess xxx
Hi Viv,
I am in total agreement with you. I think it a good opportunity to thank you for all the hard work and time you have put into this blog. It has allowed us to discuss in full the pro and cons of this case and to come to an informed opinion. I want to believe this case is still being investigated but as you point out if there is currently not enough evidence to progress it further - little can be done.
I hope this blog will remain open so we can pop in now and again but unless new evidence comes to light we can only go over old ground. I personally believe there will be light at the end of this tunnel but when that will be is anyone’s guess. Thanks again - Wizard
Much as I will be sad to see this forum snooze, I completely understand the reasons for letting it do so.
Good idea to keep it open so we can keep in touch and have a natter from time to time - after all, some of us have known each other for nearly two years now!
Oh, and Opus agrees with me.
:>
X LGC
I also respects Viv's decision, but do not completely share her position. But it is her blog and her decision, of course. And I understand Viv may be tired.
As far as I'm concerned, this will not go away.
Hi Viv & all
I fully appreciate your comments and thank you for all your informed posts and research, which you have allowed us to digest.
When I came to this forum I had very little knowledge of the law especially regarding to this case. You have patiently explained the law to us time and time again for which I am very grateful.
I cannot believe for one minute this case is completely closed. I just do not believe LP would give up on any child, or adult for that matter, who disappeared in such circumstances.
Can I also say it has been a privilege to chat to you all and read so many interesting posts. It would be nice to be able to look in every now and then to catch up.
Hi Claudia
I agree, this case will not go away.
I understand your position Viv and I certainly share your view that it is not right to harass the McCanns. This can only obstruct justice. Bennett's actions and recent attitudes shown on the 3As have thrown this into sharp perspective for me.
Hi all,
Viv, I too understand your reasons and respect your wishes but feel a bit sad, I suppose, as this has been a place that has welcomed me, helped me through hard times and a haven to discuss the case within an environment where I could speak freely about my thoughts. As you know, I never worked up the courage to post on the DE because of all of the sniping there (cowardly of me I know), and I really do appreciate your efforts and wealth of information that you have provided to allow me and others to express how I/they feel.
I also think this case is not over yet, but I think this site means so much more to me now beacuse of the great people who post here, who have been nothing other than supportive and friendly. I would miss you all & I too hope that we will all keep in touch and pop in from time to time.
If anybody who posts here that doesn't already have my email, I'm happy for Viv to give it out.
Thanks again, Viv. You truly have been a seeker of justice for Maddie.
xx
Hi Zodiac
I found listening to the podcast very interesting. Kate really is trying too hard and imo makes herself sound even more guilty.
Glad she was back to normal after only four days of not being able to function, how quickly Madeleine was forgotten.
If we are to believe Kate & Gerry, that Madeleine is in the hands of an abductor and eventually will be found. Can you imagine what that poor child will think when reading words like that as well as all the other heartless statements they have both made.
I know what I would think and it is not printable.
Hi Dyl
I will ask Viv for your e-mail address if that is ok with you.
Hi Viv
Thanks, once again, for all your past work into getting Justice for Madeleine. I'm hope it will make some difference to the final and proper outcome of this case even though we may never know!
I respect your wish to have this a Members only site Viv and will definitely pop in from time to time to speak with everyone. I consider you all to be my mates!
I think we are all suffering somewhat from McCann fatigue having been blogging away with our views since poor Maddie disappeared. So I'll take this opportunity to take a break and get some early spring cleaning and gardening done!
Having said that, I personally don't think we should ever give up on Maddie, nor do I think the pressure should be stopped on Kate and Gerry McCann and their tapas friends, because if it wasn't for their selfish and irresponsible behaviour Maddie would still be playing with her little sister and brother.
Kate and Gerry, no doubt on the advice of their clever solicitors, were very canny to have Madeleine made a Ward of Court, so of course it makes it more believable that she can still be alive which, having seen the dogs' responses in the apartment and the car they hired, and listened to their various different accounts of what happened, I don't think anyone with half a brain would doubt their guilt.
I hope they and their pals enjoy every last penny they make for their grasping greedy Madeleine Fund - it was always about them, not Madeleine.
I'm sorry Viv not to be in complete agreement with you about Tony Bennett, although I can see just where you are coming from, but I must say what I feel, even though a few of you feel I am misguided!
Putting aside the legal intricacies, I have not followed his past crusades so don't know much about him as a solicitor, politician, or as a personality, but I still admire him for standing up for what he believes in. He is of course a maverick, but the world needs that type of person occasionally. I know my saying this will not make me popular, and maybe I'll be proved wrong. But at least perhaps someone will sit up and take notice of what you and he and all us antis are saying. At least I hope they will.
'I may not agree with what he says, but I defend to the death his right to say it' - words often repeated on the blogs.
As far as the LP's are concerned and the ongoing investigation, let's hope one day they will get the evidence they need to get these people in Court to pay for their fantastic cover up of what happened to Madeleine. In my opinion, they have all lied through their teeth and I personally despise them.
I am waiting to read Goncalo's book with interest - I hope there is not a concerted effort by some people who want to shut him up to actually do that! I admire him immensely.
Anyway, here's grist to your mill Viv!
I look forward to being back in a few weeks when it is a members only blog again.
I'm not religious, but I'll still say God Bless to everyone.
Nancy x
Dylan,
I haven't forgotten we are going to meet up in the Spring!
I'll get your e-mail address from Viv before then so we can get in touch.
LOL Nx
Hi ALL
Di I have often wondered how Madeleine would feel knowing how quickly her paretns got back to normal...
Two othere very disturbing things are what would happen if she saw the happy snaps of them happy an carefree pushing another child in a buggy with one of the twins? That should have been Madeleine too tiered to walk so one of the twins gets out so she can have a push... All the other snaps as well and they never ever talked to her "In case you can hear us darling we are doing all we can to bring you home we love you" but nothing I would imagine if Madeleine ever saw them on TV she would break her little heart it should all be about her not them....
xxx
Hope,
Your 17.09pm post =D> (this is what makes up the clapping hand icon in 3 A's).
Zodiac
Is that clapping hands for all my typos LOL amazing how bad they are when I type fast xxx
Hope,
I will never forget you every time I am in a Farden Centre I have a little giggle to myself. Are you feeling better today?
I do hope Viv keeps the site open to all of us I would like to discuss the GA book with all of you when I have my own copy.
BBFN
Zodizc
It is amazing how many times I use the word Farden now and people look at me as if I am mad (those who know me already know this about me)LOL
I am sure we can all keep in touch GAs book for one we will have plenty to talk about...
xxxx
Hiya all!
Zodiac, I entirely agree, TB’s booklet is not helpful because it is just a distillation of what is already in the public domain, with his own slant on it and his unfortunate habit of turning possibilities and uncertainties into decided facts! He presents both law and information in a very dishonest way, only stating what he believes will support his stated objective. The truth is he is not in a position to actually investigate this case! He states Goncalo was his inspiration but this absurd, given he was the lead officer investigating the case. I also agree that if Goncalo is seen to sympathise and support such a weird character with a very bad reputation, he is likely to be tarred with the same brush and I think that would be a very unfortunate result and one the McCanns would be very pleased with. This is why Clarence has been talking to 24 Horas IMO and making this association. It was presented to me by one particular thug on 3 As “Shubob” as some exciting fait accompli for him and his merry band of vigilantes but he had not looked further than the end of his nose. These people are quite sickening in their zeal to be just be a “kangaroo court”.
There is an enormous amount of material on the internet as to the nature and character of Tony Bennett. What overwhelmingly comes across is, any cause he gets involved in actually gets lost with all the personal arguments he has with people along the way, where he often threatens to sue, and his own personal need for glorification, publishing all his letters and pamphlets etc. He has already fell foul of the criminal law. A man who just ignores proper legal procedure and seeks to go it alone, arguing with everyone along the way is not going to achieve anything at all. That much is for sure.
Baroness Scotland is a wonderful lady and has clearly been directly involved in the Maddie case given her intervention in the “complex issues” at the High Court. Does she really need to be told to do her best for Madeleine or indeed given “legal advice” given her position. This is but another example of the extraordinary arrogance of TB. The reality is this man, just like me, has absolutely no idea what those complex issues actually were because we simply have not been told! All we can do is be guided by what we were told, this is an ongoing criminal case and the AG, SOCA and LP wanted to preserve the integrity of that investigation. So it would not be wrong to say this is a very serious case and getting direct attention from the highest legal officer in the country! To seek to intermeddle in a case being dealt with at such a high level and where he simply does not have access to the evidence is simply extraordinary!
I have sometimes succumbed to the spin from Clarence Mitchell, I am sure we all have. That is the intention. He spoke in the press last July, indicating Kate and Gerry made Madeleine a Ward of Court immediately following her disappearance. The court judgment confirms this is false. Kate and Gerry had actually made applications under the Child Abduction and Custody Act/ Hague Convention on rights of a child, not asked her to be a Ward. This was obviously part of their campaign to say Maddie had been abducted and get orders that concerned parents would want, to direct that law enforcement gave them all details of the ongoing case, sightings etc.
Maddie was not actually made a Ward of the Court until the following April, 2008. This is a step by a court where they are effectively taking over the right to make all decisions about a child that would normally be made by the parents, so what was the reason for the judge’s decision here? It would seem someone must have made an application that caused the Court to do that. The case was then adjourned until July so that all interested parties could intervene in the case given the complex issues. She was clear that all pleadings, skeleton arguments made by the Chief Constable etc would remain confidential. I would submit because they clearly involved complex arguments about the evidence and ongoing criminal case. As we know, the ongoing criminal case was only against Kate and Gerry McCann/ the TAPAS 9, hence the rogatory interview requests.
I will post some more in a bit answering the rest of your posts which I am very pleased to read.
Viv xxx
Hi all,
Di, of course you can have my email addy :-)
Nancy, I hadn't forgotten and I'm looking forward to meeting you still, and warmer weather!
Viv, will we still be able to discuss things as and when they come up? Or even as and when we think of things? I trust that if this forum is private, then harassment is not an issue? I will miss Hope's 'renatings', Zodiac, Claudia and Doc's cynical sense of humour and of, course, everyone else's input that helps to remind me why I came here in the first place.
I still think that Maddie should have a "voice" and not be forgotten and desperately hope that someday there will be justice for her and peace. I can't bear to think of her ever having to endure what paedophiles would have put her through. I never really stopped mourning for Sarah Payne. Even though I never knew her. I suppose I just want to know that Madeleine never knew what atrocities some people are capable of and that the world was a happy place for her. To that end, the only outcome would be that she is safe and happy with a doting mother that couldn't have children, or that she is no longer with us but didn't suffer fear and pain.
I am hoping that it is the former and always will but because the McCanns haven't been able to tell the truth, I fear it is the latter and worse of all, I fear not ever knowing, which is torturous and upsetting. I can't say anymore than that because I don't want to think about things too much, especially after reading the paedophile library article and knowing what some disgusting internet pervert did to my very own little daughter. It makes me feel like I don't want to be a part of the human race sometimes and I try and forget that these things happen.
On an up-note, it is milder now and I may even get out in my farden tomorrow :-)
Please try and stay in touch folks.
xxxxx
Oh just one more thought which I think Zodiac also brought up.
The actions of TB could well have the effect of making the McCanns the victims again in the eyes of the public. This is what they have always wanted.
In the most dire situation it is what his actions may drive the McCanns to, or what people like Shubob may do to them. I believe that if TB keeps bombarding the McCanns with mail direct to their address, legal threats etc, he will be prosecuted for harassment. I also think this would be a good thing so that people realise they must not take the law into their own hands.
It is really unfortunate that in so many ways, he just does not seem to be concerned about Maddie at all or justice. He has chatted on the phone with Clarence Mitchell and clearly does make money from criminal cases. He was dishonest in his employment acting for clients on the side, I would not trust this man further than the proverbial!
xx
hello viv,i also respect your wishes,and thankyou for allowing me this great privledge to be part of this blog.i have always been behind the scenes reading,i suppose i am what some call alurker,if you decide to close your blog i will miss you all.Thankyou all for your endless work and devotion,i hope we soon have justice for madeleine and all neglected children godbless all.x
Hi John and thanks for your kind comments. But it was not a "great privilege" to be a member of this blog, it was open to all people who could behave in a reasonable way. It was really unfortunate that the actions of McCann trolls forced me to close it to members only which no doubt prevented a lot of people from making a casual contribution. I would actually have liked to get those in favour of an abduction on board but sadly they did not seem to be reasonable people, always those with an ulterior motive to pursue which is sad. At the end of the day what we have really wanted to talk about is justice for children and parents behaving reasonably towards them. We still have an awful long way to go in the UK to achieve that goal and unfortunately the criminal justice system cannot always prosecute those who have committed crimes. AT least we have tried to point out to interested readers they should look a lot deeper than McCann excusal, accusation, minimisation and denial of what they were actually responsible for, their own little girl.
No one can dispute that but for their actions Maddie would still be here as she had every right to be!
xx
Hope!
Well yes, say she had been abducted and came back and saw that picture of her parents laughing and releasing balloons, on her birthday, just a few days later. How utterly heartbreaking would that be!
They never really fooled any right thinking person, did they, including the police!
Dilly
I am not completely closing the blog, just making it private and slowing things down again, but of course people will still be able to come on here, we can all still be concerned friends, we can all say just whatever it is we want to say. Even if it only hi, I just went to the Lovely Farden Centre, which as you know, is one of my favourite spring summer pursuits:-))))
There is the possibility that we will have further matters to discuss about the McCann case, but I think re-hashing now is a bit depressing! We must look forward and Hope!
xx
Hi Viv
I have sent you mail.
x
Have to go now
Thought you might like to see this thread on 3A's
Gerry in PDL
Thanks for your lovely message Di and I have had a similar one from the 3 Arguidos. I will answer both, I just feel a bit upset at the moment.
Viv xxxxx
Whatever next?
See you all tomorrow, hopefully.
I must just clarify, my whatever next post was about Gerry in PDL, not Viv's last post.
Sorry if anyone got the wrong impression :o((
Take care Viv
xx
Wow, Gerry back in Portugal today! Kept that quite.
2009-01-13
Gerry McCann Back in Portugal
Maddie' dad is back in Portugal to try new diligences
Madeleine McCann's dad arrived today in Portugal [Lisbon], in what is believed to be the first of "many visits" to define new diligences to search for his daughter, hoping to count with the help of the Portuguese authorities.
In an exclusive interview to the Portuguese News agency Lusa, Gerry McCann stated that he has no intention, at least for now, to promote any process against the Portuguese state or any other entity, namely media outlets, highlighting the fact that the important is to forget the past and try to keep searching for his missing daughter disappeared in the Algarve in 2007.
Madeleine McCann, then with three years old, disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007 from the room where she slept along with her twin brothers, in an apartment in a tourist resort in Praia da Luz, district of Lagos, in the Algarve while the parents had dinner at a nearby restaurant.
On the 7 of September in the same year, the child's mother, Kate, and the father, Gerry McCann, were constituted as arguidos, after another interrogatory at the DIC, but on the 21st of July of 2008 the Attorney General Office [PGR] officially announced the closing of the investigation and the archival of the suspicions against Gerry and Kate McCann.
The PJ initially pointed towards the kidnap theory, but later admitted the death of the child, however the authorities were never able to really understand what happened to Madeleine McCann.
Source: Sol/Lusa
Missing Madeleine McCann's father flew back to Portugal for the first time since returning to the UK.
Gerry McCann made the journey to meet his Portuguese lawyers to discuss what more could done to help find his missing daughter, family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said.
It is understood that Mr McCann's wife Kate did not travel with him, and that he will not see any Portuguese officials during his short trip.
Mr Mitchell said: "I can confirm that Gerry McCann returned to Portugal for a brief visit to meet his lawyers to see what more can be done to help find his daughter."
Mr McCann, 40, from Rothley, Leicestershire, flew into Faro Airport in the Algarve and was met by British officials. He then travelled to Lisbon for talks with his legal team, led by Rogerio Alves.
Madeleine was nearly four when she went missing from her family's holiday apartment in the Algarve village of Praia da Luz on May 3 2007 while her parents dined with friends nearby.
Despite a massive police operation and huge publicity worldwide, she has not been found. Four months after she disappeared, Portuguese police made both Mr and Mrs McCann "arguidos", or formal suspects, in the case.
Two days later, on September 9 2007, they returned to Britain with their two other children, twins Sean and Amelie.
Last July the Portuguese attorney-general shelved the investigation and lifted the arguido status of Mr and Mrs McCann.
The couple insist they will continue to believe Madeleine is still alive until presented with firm evidence to the contrary, and have vowed to keep looking for her for as long as it takes.
Source: PA
+/-
+/-
by Joana Morais
Comment This Post
1 comments
On January 13, viv said...
Well I am all at a loss to understand how Portuguese lawyers can help in the search for Maddie or why British officials were there either!
Is something about to break, just as I have said I am closing my blog there is nothing more to say, typical!
As ever Joana, thanks for being so on the ball with the news!
xxx
Di, I actually thought you meant whatever next, 3 As writing a nice email to me:-))))
I cannot get my head around this Gez story at the mo and dare not get my hopes up, but..
Viv
Do you think he has been asked to return?
Well a "legal team" and British officials being there it kind of looks that way. People only need a legal team when they have a big legal case to deal with after all!
If we had an announcement Gerry had flown in to Portugal to meet top American PIs who are now instructed to find her then I would be more inclined to believe their spin, but that is not what they are saying. Clarence does put a certain spun piece of news in the press before they find out anyway i.e. they made her a ward in May 07, lies all lies the Pink One!
But I will have to wait and see!
xx
Hi Viv and Di,
Its sods law just when we thought there was not much more to say Gerry returns to Portugal. This open a whole new can of worms.
Well as they say in legal circles Wiz, I am considering my position:-)))
xxx
Another possible slant on this, the McCanns and the TAPAS lied at the time to cover up their own negligence and avoid a prison sentence. Now they have put that risk behind them because it is too late for them to be prosecuted he wants to start telling the truth!
If that is the case the words you wicked B*stard spring to mind!
Madeleine's father wants to work with the Portuguese authorities and pursue research
Photo
windward See Photos »
Gerry McCann
The father of Madeleine McCann today expressed their intention to cooperate with the Portuguese authorities in the search of her daughter, disappeared in the Algarve in May 2007, believing that there are steps that can still be made in research.
"We think there is a very good chance of Maddie still be found alive and in good health and therefore we want to continue the search. We want to emphasize our desire to work with the authorities as much as possible," said Gerry McCann, who came to Canada today for a brief visit of only two days.
In an exclusive interview to the agency Lusa, Maddie's father said he now returned to Portugal for the first time since September 2007, to discuss with his lawyer, Rogerio Alves, the best way to collaborate with the Portuguese authorities to "explore steps that have not yet been taken and that could make a difference. "
For this, said it is important to analyze the process and all the research so far "not to duplicate steps that have already been given" and "not to waste resources."
"It is the first visit to Portugal, but I hope it is the first of many over the coming months (...) The goal is to see what can still be done in the search for Maddie," he said, ahead that could return as early as February.
According to Gerry McCann, the British police and police from several other countries continue to receive "information from different sources" about what has happened to Madeleine, as well as reports of "possible sightings."
"Like all parents of missing children, we want any information being investigated," said Maddie's father, who today met with his lawyer and also with representatives of the British embassy in Portugal.
In the interview to Lusa, said Gerry McCann has not intention, at least for now, to proceed with court proceedings against the Portuguese or any other entity, including media, stressing want to "move forward and not back" .
"I want to make completely clear that what happened in the past already there and we will make us much as can still be done to continue the search. That is our priority and always has been. So, these things [possible prosecution] does not are simply relevant now, "he said.
Madeleine McCann, then three years old, disappeared to 03 May 2007 of the room where I slept with the two twin brothers, younger, in an apartment in a tourist resort in Praia da Luz, district of Lagos, while the Algarve parents dinner in one nearby restaurant.
The 07 September of the same year, the child's mother, Kate, and father, Gerry McCann, were made defendants, but the 21 July 2008 the Attorney General's Office officially announced the closure of research and archiving of the suspicions against couple.
The PJ initially pointed to the possibility of abduction, but later admitted the death of the child, but authorities never managed to establish what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
The mystery of the disappearance of the child and the apparent lack of solid clues to explain what happened helped make this event one of the most media ever.
Oh Viv isnt it obvious???
Gez heard you were going members only and knew he would miss reading about himself so has gone to try and keep this blog open...
xxx
Seriously Viv
If she really was taken and he has only gone back to tell the truth now he cant be done for neglect then he had better stay there what kind of person does not answer questions or lies if there child is really missing???
xxx
Gez heard you were going members only and knew he would miss reading about himself so has gone to try and keep this blog open...
/WELL THAT MADE ME SMILE!
I cannot begin to describe how any normal person would feel if that is what he is actually about, but increasingly it is looking much more likely she really was abducted! But they put saving themselves first and waited until they were well and truly in the clear. There are no words for that, but still we must wait and see, I suppose!
Never have I agreed with your words more Viv - As you are aware from my e-mail. It is clear they are reading your/our blog to assess public opinion and counter the thoughts in the public that we as a group express so openly and calmly.
It is now up to the police to find the evidence necessary to probe at a level whereby Justice for Madeleine can take place. Importantly, such a justice will send a signal
May any fraud be uncovered and may the riddle of the apparent death of an innocent 3yr old who never asked to be born be solved beyond reasonable doubt. Many of us here have more faith in the nose of Eddie and Keela than in the mouth of the McCann's. Let the police investigation take its course and time work for Madeleine.
Your words being the thread and closing it down as a public forum.
Viv
I really cant belive she was abducted too many lies have been told and can you imagine the up roar there would have been if they had been jailed for neglect???
The Madeleine fund would have trebled with outraged people discusted that a Mother and Father were jailed and seperated from the twins when their daughter had been abducted...
The fact that Kate refused to answer a single questions must mean she knew there was no point as I cant believe any Mother would stay silent when they knew their child had been taken. The question about handing Madeleine over to a family member was not difficult unless the answere was yes we did not want her but even if that was the case she could not of hatted her so much that she would risk a peadophile ring more time to harm her...
If Madeleine was taken the lies are unforgivable and the fact that no one bothered to look for her the night she vanished is pure evil...
xxx
Hiya both,
at the present time I am going to keep an open mind on both death and abduction. But one thing I am clear on, Gerry McCann is in big trouble! If the TAPAS group all lied to prevent them being prosecuted for negligence they perverted the course of justice. Either way I do not think he will be escaping just what he deserves, jail time.
But yes we have had faith in the police and now it is starting to look like we were right all along!
xxx
OH BT I take your point, if this is going the way I think it is going we will definitely need to close the blog!
xx
Viv
By close do you mean sign in again or close completly???
xxx
Hope I just mean I would not want to interfere in any legal proceedings by making adverse comments about Kate and Gerry as we clearly do that could enable them to say no fair trial. So it would be closed to public view but still here!
xxx
In fact given the timing of this now, it makes the actions of TB even more sinister!
xx
I just had to look back in.
I am not sure what to believe is it abduction or not? I always thought Viv you believed Madeleine died in apt 3A.
Viv, from what you are now saying it could be abduction, but I come back to Eddie & Keela?
Am I totally losing the plot?
The fact that you say Gerry will get jail time
Hi Viv
Would GA not have been privy to GM returning to PDL?
He is not there because he wants to be there (IMO) but because he has to be there.
Now the question is why does he have to be there?
Perhaps because he may have been legally enforced too or perhaps maybe because by going it might enable him to gain further financial funds from his backer.
Three questions arise...
1) Why has he 'decided' to 'help' the Portugese lawyers now face to face when he has been doing it by phone for the last 18 mths ?
2) Why is she not returning to 'help' as well?
3) Why was he met and shielded by British officials and has he been granted a quasi diplomatic status?
May I be so bold as to say this is not the end of the beginning but maybe the beginning of the end.
(IMO) He has gone back because the lawyers have said he has to go back.
Hiya Di
I am not discounting the evidence of the dogs, just looking at things from every angle. There are two and fros on both sides and clearly the police really struggled to know which was right because they just did not get the honest and frank help they were entitled to expect from this abysmal bunch of concocting liars. They tried again with the rogs but still the lies!
The case is nothing to do with GA any longer.
BT I remain entirely unconvinced he has been shielded by British officials apart from a pink one who decided to give his job up or perhaps got pushed for disclosing confidential information to a suspect, i.e watch out they will be bugging you! Big mouth Mitchell, out for himself, just like someone else who has muscled himself in or tried to!
I think Gerry has had the full weight of the law thrown at him and thus he is in more co-operative mood. Here he describes what he has suffered the poor man, but being on the wrong side of the British Legal Establishment responsible for criminal law would be a horrifying experience, I can promise you that! (from 3 As)..pressure as I have never felt before, serves you right Gerry McCann, you reap what you sow!
01.11.07 The ability to walk through the door to your place of work and receive a pat on the back from a colleague, does not of it's own accord, I am sorry to say, automatically mean that you are a fit and proper person to practice medicine.
Was Gerald Mccann totally unaffected? Psychologically Dr.Gerald Mccann was affected and he admitted some of his darkest thoughts here:
"You're in the middle of a horror movie really, a nightmare".
"Pressure such as I've never felt before".
"You're under attack in one way or another".
"The speculation takes you to the worst places and the worst place would have been being charged, potentially being put in jail, certainly being detained to face charges that could have taken years to materialise, being separated from Sean and Amelie."
It seems he was affected and in much the same way as his wife.
Oh my, has Kate been left home alone again to look after the kids?
Hi Viv
Don't answer my questions, I have just read your earlier post to Hope about legal proceedings, which I respect.
Hi BT
Maybe the begining of the end, oh how I hope so.
Now I really must go, bedtime.
I will look forward to reading tomorrow.
Night all.
Hi Viv
Crossed posts.
Thanks for your answer, I understand what you are saying.
Off to bed now.
x
Nite Nite Di
Wiz: I just read on 3 As someone quipped maybe he had a liaison with the busty gym instructress that caused kate to go into a strop and Gerry should well cant remember the rest but make hay while the sun shines or something like that!
I wonder if he can get another woman to look at him with those adoring eyes, just like Kate did in Brussels
'another fine mess you got me in, you sumink errrr, sleep on your own pal'
Di, sleep well!
xxxxx
I would not feel very comfortable at home while Gerry was in Portugal he has had months to work on his story and I bet he covers his own back...
Right from the beginging Gerry and his charming family told the world Kate was not stable how noble of him to protect her the way he has...
I have e mailed you Viv xxx
Hiya Hope but I think it is all those glib lies that have got him into so much trouble and now he needs a team of lawyers to get him back out the hole. I think it will be mitigation of the trouble he is in rather than escape. He pitted his wits against so many clever people and has been an absolute fool!
Answered your mail darling and thanks xxxxx
Have just seen that ugly mug on tv. The b**tard is really back.
Hi Claudia
I missed him on ITV news and it has been cleared from the BBC website now...
DId he look happy xxx
Hi, Hope. I didn't see the interview. I've just seen footage of him outside the hotel. And I was too busy insulting my tv that I don't know how he looked! LOL
Hi Claudia
Just found this on you tube http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya2W81oGjfA
Then realised it was put up by Joanna he dont look happy...
See you soon xxx
Oh Claudia Hun, how intensely traumatic for you, darling are you OK? Seeing the Gerry one with the horns rising just cannot be a good experience. I hope he does not bring your beautiful country more bad weather!
Now, on a slightly more serious note, I just found a great post from one who speaks the kind of sensible language I like on 3 As, (amid a load of government conspiracy theories of all places)
I do not know who this is but he/she talks a great deal of sound common sense!
Pogacsa
Post subject: Re: Operation Ore - Is this the reason?
New postPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:50 am
Local Lag
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:27 pm
Posts: 783
I think a far more logical reason why the McCanns have not been charged is that it is actually unbelievably difficult to extract reliable and repeatable DNA results from a trace sample that probably contains a hundred cells or so, which may also be contaminated by others.
We've also grown accustomed to a number of posters, very convincingly in some cases, telling us that the case against the McCanns is very strong. Now emotionally, I'd much rather believe Coldwater, Ironside, Beowulf and others. But the fact is that what we have seen in the printed report shows that almost none of these people's sources were remotely accurate. At least, with regard to the PJ's investigation. There may yet be further revelations in the UK or elsewhere that rescues some of these sources (or at least puts them in context). But as things stand now, it does appear that there was really very little evidence against the McCanns. We just have to deal with it. It is a bit cavalier for any of us to start invoking wild conspiracy theories to explain the absence of evidence that certain posters (including posters I really like) have claimed.
Looking at the police report, it is clear there is a big shadow of suspicion hanging over the McCanns. It is clear that Murat was only named a suspect because of the testimony of the friends. The evidence of the friends was contradictory. And we have the evidence of the dogs which is not admissible in its own right but which raises grave suspicions (if there was a cover up, why not downplay this bit?) The forensics are highly indicative although it would seem would not be adequate under Portuguese law.
Clearly, the Portuguese system is at fault. If it is true that such indicative results were initially produced, the Portuguese can only blame themselves if they let the McCanns go home. I know the conspiracy theorists will say "ah, it was UK pressure" but I see no convincing evidence for this. I do see, all over the world, extremely inflexible judicial systems and I think the McCanns and their advisers have simply exploited the slowness of the Portuguese judiciary.
But another crucial reason for the McCanns current status is that the crime occurred in Portugal, which is where the investigation took place, but all the relevant witnesses were in England. And there is simply no legal way of compelling them to return. It is as simple as that. The McCanns and their friends exploited this situation.
Had the crime taken place in the UK, or had the McCanns and their friends been Portuguese and stayed in Portugal, then the case would probably have taken a radically different path. I can only hope that the UK police will eventually bring a prosecution. And I really don't buy into the notion that the UK police are protecting the McCanns. Any copper reading the Portuguese police report will see immediately that the McCanns are very significant suspects in all this and that it implies they are child killers. Any investigation in the UK would be different because all the friends and the McCanns could be interviewed under caution. This is not a criticism of the PJ, by the way. It is simply that the circumstances - a conspiracy amongst friends - favour a UK based approach.
too busy insulting my tv,
Claudia darling I love you, you are so funny!
how dare the Gerry one encroach in your very own living room in that way, truly a bastard!
thanks for the video Hope
"what's gone on in the past is not really relevant at the minute"
It does seem to me that his ploy at least is to agree they were not honest in the past but now they want to be, so they can search for Maddie. Is he buying himself some time? Who is paying for the "Team of Lawyers" he apparently needs to help him focus on the search and who is actually going to be searching.
He stress again the usual bumkum we want to stress there is a very, very good chance she is alive and well. What thanks to all your efforts to be so helpful? Not seen in the area of her disappearance for well over a year? No private investigators looking and even when they were, useless twits who could not even keep their mouths shut?
Words fail me.
Nite Nite
all!
xx
In between speech on the video he shiftily looks about, like a naughty school boy caught in the tuck shop, plundering the chocolate..He visibly swallows hard, bracing himself for the delivery of the next carefully stage managed little phrase.
Maybe Kate could not face this but you are not much cop at it really, are you Gerry?
Quite pathetic in fact!
xxx
Bren points out on 3As someone is not singing from the same hymn sheet here, this is a rushed PR job (well said Bren:-)))
From the Daily Mail
Quote:
Mr McCann said he was unaware of how much money remained in the Find Madeleine Fund but admitted his family had 'scarce resources and did not want to waste them.'
From CdeM
Quote:
FUND WITH MONEY
Clarence Mitchell ensures that the fund continues to search for the child with money. "We have 800 thousand pounds or euros 880170.36. We have no problems with money. People continue to help us," he said.
Viv your comment ...In between speech on the video he shiftily looks about, like a naughty school boy caught in the tuck shop, plundering the chocolate..
Laughed so much as it was spot on
Did you notice how when explaining why he was there he looks momentarily down to the left despite him desperately trying to control his body language.
Question for today - If he was there to follow up leads and move the investigation on etc he would have been smiling in the joyous triumphiant way he and his wife did the week after Maddie went missing !!!!!!! But he wasn't was he.
He is there not because he wants to be (IMO) but because he has to be.
Off to work now but I leave us all to pontificate these words from Martin Luther King.
'Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter'
Good morning Viv and everyone!
Happy to see it was not "The end of the debate"! As long as there is no closure on this sad case, it is good to have this site to get updated on whats going on! And to show whoever is interested that the public is not forgetting a three-year-old girl, left alone babysitting her two-year-old siblings!
----
Interesting to see Gerry back in Portugal!
January 13, 2009
Gerry McCann Back in Portugal
"According to a source from the Home Office in London, Madeleine McCann's father, before beginning his trip to Portugal, has obtained all the guarantees that he would not be troubled by the Portuguese authorities.
The investigation to the disappearance and death of his daughter Madeleine has been waiting for better evidences by the Public Ministry's decision, that has refused since then to reopen the case, despite requests made in that sense, which have new elements."
Source: SOS Maddie
---
Hello everyone!
I do not believe for one moment that GM returned to Portuguese soil voluntarily. The retained lawyers could have flown here incognito and billed TM for their services. They could have emailed, faxed or had a conference call ... absolutely no reason I can think of for GM flying over except if he was compelled to.
The tv interview was a smoke screen IMO - all fronting up and bluster. I strongly believe he would drop anyone to save his own skin, including his wife and friends.
He's there for a reason and I think it's very significant.
January 14, 2009
Gerry wants English help in the search
Return: One and a half year later
by: Tânia Laranjo/Sónia Trigueirão
Almost one and a half year after leaving Portugal in a hurry – 48 hours after having been made an arguido – Gerry McCann returned. He was at the English embassy yesterday, in the Estrela area, in Lisbon, to ask for help to restart the searches for his daughter.
Nevertheless, Gerry McCann didn’t contest the archiving of the process. He could have requested the opening of the instruction phase – given the fact he had a legitimate interest – which he didn’t do within the legal deadline. The result: in terms of the process, it’s practically impossible for the authorities to restart the searches into the little girl’s whereabouts, unless Maddie’s parents supply a new solid element concerning what really happened to the child.
All the article here:
http://www.joana-morais.blogspot.com/
Thank you Astro for translations:-)
Morning all and Niki great to see you back!
"Before he went Gerry obtained guarantees from the Home Office he would not be troubled by Portuguese authorities"
Confirmation if even we need it, that saving his own hide, comes before his publicity stunts about searching for Maddie!
The man is simply a fake!
I am sure we will discover what his real purpose was, we always do, he and the Pink One are so utterly transparent!
Hi Viv, good to be back:-) I started out last week beleving I would be around more, very eager to read the T7-interviews, then my internet-connection went woush-clunk!
Atardi, before I was cut of, I read you had not been well! Hope you are ok now cyber-friend:-).
Have to do some work, but hope to be back later:-)
Hi All
Why would he go back to search for her now what a bloody idiot the fact that none of them searched for her the night she went missing is sick....
If they have been telling the truth about the abduction (and I cant really buy that) the whole lot of them have put this 3 year old in much worse danger by lying cleaning the apartment and not bloody looking for her...
It is almost worse than if she died in an accident there would be no point in looking for her had that happend but if she was really missing going back to search now is strange?
Brian Kennedy is funding the new detectives well I hope they are bloody honest and if they find the truth whatever it is they make it clear exactly what happend...
Fantastic work on the McCann files all the papers in one place and some video footage...
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id79.html
xxx
Hi all,
Excellent posts!
Viv picture in your mind the war pic with the guy pointing and the words "We Need You". Well "We Need This Blog" even if it is private. We need it to see through the pink pooping spin. Look at the spin with regard to the return to Portugal. When I read anything the pink clown says I always think of the words from PT he lies with as many teeth he has in his mouth. IMO the lies just come one after the other. The DVD statements and Rog. Int have shown the lot of them up for what they really are IMO. I do not believe the abduction story never have and never will. Why is he really there? Why did they not return to take part in a reconstruction when asked to do so by the PJ? Why did they not ask for the case to be re-opened at the time they legally could? How is that doing everything possible to search for your missing chiuld? They have an expensive legal team there is no excuse for not asking for the process to be re-opened. IMO loopholes have been used to try and escape justice or buy more time to escape justice. Why did he need this 'According to a source from the Home Office in London, Madeleine McCann's father, before beginning his trip to Portugal, has obtained all the guarantees that he would not be troubled by the Portuguese authorities'? Did they know about the return to PT prior to releasing their new video appeal?
Off to have a look at the vid now.
Below posted by Niki says a lot for me:
'Gerry McCann returned. He was at the English embassy yesterday, in the Estrela area, in Lisbon, to ask for help to restart the searches for his daughter.
Nevertheless, Gerry McCann didn’t contest the archiving of the process. He could have requested the opening of the instruction phase – given the fact he had a legitimate interest – which he didn’t do within the legal deadline. The result: in terms of the process, it’s practically impossible for the authorities to restart the searches into the little girl’s whereabouts, unless Maddie’s parents supply a new solid element concerning what really happened to the child.'
'child'
"Before he went Gerry obtained guarantees from the Home Office he would not be troubled by Portuguese authorities"
Really? And would would a completely innocent man worry about that? Gerry, you should be forbidden to enter Portuguese territory unless it was to answer all the unanswered questions (and for that you would have to bring the Mrs) and to participate in the reconstruction. Apart from that, we don't want you here, which is quite obvious judging by the comments on our online newspapers.
Hi, Viv! I'm glad we're all still here debating. It was worse than that! It wasn't in my living room. It was in me bedroom! Argh!!! :-)
Hello
I cant belive he missed the deadline to re open the case (well I can) how stupid do you think the world is Gerry?
I think he had to go back it is not something he would choose to do and why get reasurances the PJ wont do their job and ask any awkward questions...
To late to look now should have been looking the second after Kate told you she was gone!!!!!
There are some very carefully phrased claims in all the newspapers:
"it is understood that ex police officers are assisting in the search"
Whenever a lawyer is making a claim that he knows to be false the stock phrase is:
it is my understanding , it is my belief etc.
in that way when it turns out be false he cannot be accused of lying, no he can say it was an honestly held but mistaken belief.
So Gerry did not ask the PJ to re-open the process, he wanted to make sure he would not be arrested before returning, there are no ex police advising, there are no PIs searching in Portugal, but he went to Portugal to find out what else could be done in the searches by chatting with his team of lawyers and going on TV.
Well Gerry we just think you are a conman and a liar, just like your press spokesman who cannot tell us who is actually looking for Maddie. And what is more no one believes you!
Claudia, your bedroom, yikes, a truly ghastly prospect!
I can certainly understand the Portuguese people being very angry indeed about this man returning and abusing your Country once more or several times with his publicity stunts to ahem meet his lawyers etc!
Truth is we do not want him hear, either, unless it is in Winson Green or some similar less salubrious form of hotel:-)))) We the tax payers will gladly pick up the tab and ought to get an £800,000 boost to that!
xx
Clarence Mitchell, the McCann's spokesman, has refused to confirm the new investigation, saying: "We never comment on operational detail."
But he said Mr McCann had flown to Portugal to speak to lawyers about what else could be done to try to find Madeleine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/4237573/Madeleine-McCann-Gerry-and-Kate-hire-new-team-of-investigators.html
Goodness me Clarence lost his tongue:-))))
I bet we can find an awful lot of quotes of you ahem talking about operational detail!
Good afternoon.
In everything I have been reading today, again money seem to be the red tread... Surprise?!?
We are told that a ELITE team now is searching, so of course money is needed....
Qotes from diff.newspapers:
"Fund with money – Clarence Mitchell asserts that the fund to search the child continues to have money. “We have 800 thousand pounds, which is 880.170,36 euros. We don’t have money problems. People continue to help us”, he stated."
An excuse from Evening standard(Yes, correct! Today 14.01.2009):
"Therefore we are today calling on Evening Standard readers to redouble their efforts to find Madeleine. We have now made a very substantial donation to assist with the search and are continuing to run adverts in the foreign editions of our sister paper"
"Mr McCann said he was unaware of how mush money remained in the Find Madeleine Fund but admitted his family had 'scarce resources and did not want to waste them.'"
Daily mail commenters starts out with this:
"I think it's about time they let this go, i know it was an awful thing to happen but she is gone...
Barrie, Stockton-On-Tees,"
__
Can't help thinking it was "planted" to get this kind of responses and support-messages:
__
"Let this go" ???? It's not a lost Dog, it's a CHILD. I could never let it go. Ever.
Easy for people like Barrie, Stockton-on-Tees. Who obviously has not lost a Child.
Carrie, London, 14/1/2009 11:38"
--
A lot of the same, then the last comment until now:
__
"Let's hope that this comes to something. How harrowing must it be for them to go about their daily business not knowing where or how their daughter is? Now that all the speculation surrounding them has died down, I hope people will start donating to to the fund again. Good luck.
Girlo, Wales, 14/1/2009 13:57"
OMG
Let's hope that this comes to something. How harrowing must it be for them to go about their daily business not knowing where or how their daughter is? Now that all the speculation surrounding them has died down, I hope people will start donating to to the fund again. Good luck.
Girlo, Wales, 14/1/2009 13:57"
What good is donating to the fund Madeline is dead if she wasnt killed in the apartment the fact her father waited a year and a half to look in Portugal and all those fancy lawyers missed the deadline to re open the case???
I give up
Kate refused to answere any questions
No one looked for her in the tapas 9 group ever
They have lied since day 1
SO just how is any money going to help her when her parents wont???
Excactly Hope!
The money is not going to help Madeleine (anyway, the Elite-team is paid by Kennedy, as you posted this morning), so why this sudden urge for raising more money?
I can't find any other reasons than GREED...
Hi Nikki
Greed and the need to say she is still alive we did not kill her...
How did they know she had been taken by an organised gang of Peadophiles? A good guess when they say they left her in an unlocked apartment where she could have wandered off or been taken by anyone???
xxx
Todays London Evening Standard tells us:-
”As readers will recall, since Madeleine McCann's abduction in May 2007, The Evening Standard has covered the story extensively and reported developments in the police investigation and search for Madeleine.
During the last few months of 2007 we, along with much of the media, published a number of articles which may have been understood to suggest that Kate and Gerry McCann may have been involved in Madeleine's disappearance. We regret this and wish to make clear, for the avoidance of any doubt, that we fully accept that there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Kate and Gerry were involved in the disappearance of their daughter.
We continue to support Kate and Gerry in their search for Madeleine. There is no evidence that Madeleine has come to any harm and clearly there are people out there who know where she is.
Therefore we are today calling on Evening Standard readers to redouble their efforts to find Madeleine. We have now made a very substantial donation to assist with the search and are continuing to run adverts in the foreign editions of our sister paper, the Daily Mail, asking for information which might lead to Madeleine being found.
We wish Kate and Gerry all the best and will continue to work with them to help find their daughter.”
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... article.do
Ho hum – more money entering the fund without frightening Claudia the Mc’s will soon have enough money to buy a property in Portugal for the purposes of having a base from which to orchestrate their own search for their daughter in Portugal – of course. By the way the Evening Standard is part of the Daily Mail group. My Gog no one is safe it will be Sky News next.
Hi All,
Despite the reasons GM gives for his need to travel to Portugal I just wonder in the light of the Evening Standards undisclosed payout and apology – could Gerry being signing papers at his lawyers office to set in motion actions to sue the Portuguese press? I think instructing lawyers would be better done face to face - imo.
'I think instructing lawyers would be better done face to face - imo.'
Wizard the PT lawyers could have travelled to the UK for a face to face meeting. That way the Mrs, The Pink One, BK and all of the UK legal team could be involved.
Hi Zodiac, I would agree with you in principle but unless the police wanted to re-interview him and this was accommodated in his solicitors office most other business could be done by phone, internet or his Portuguese lawyer, as you suggest, coming over here. Something needed his urgent attention and that is why he went rather than delay matters.
I was just reading the below posted by Butterfly on 3a’s. So a lot more visits are anticipated.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_3159328.html?menu=
Gerry McCann returns from Portugal
Madeleine McCann's father returned to Britain after making his first visit to Portugal in 16 months.
Gerry McCann had a "positive" meeting with his Portuguese lawyers about the search for his missing daughter, family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said.
Mr McCann, 40, from Rothley, Leicestershire, said his brief trip to Portugal would be "the first of several" over the next few months. He also indicated a willingness to improve relations with the Portuguese authorities, which were strained after police named him and his wife Kate as suspects in Madeleine's disappearance.
In an interview with news agency Lusa, Mr McCann pledged to work "as much as possible" with officials in Portugal to look for Madeleine.
He went on: "We want to make it absolutely clear what's gone on in the past is, by and large, done and we very, very much want to focus on what can still be done for the search. That's what our priority is and it always has been."
Mr McCann flew into Faro Airport in the Algarve on Tuesday morning and was met by British Embassy officials. He then travelled to Lisbon for talks with his legal team, led by Rogerio Alves, before returning to Britain.
Mr Mitchell said: "He said it was a positive meeting and he is pleased with the way it went."
Madeleine was nearly four when she went missing from her family's holiday apartment in the Algarve village of Praia da Luz on May 3 2007 while her parents dined with friends nearby. Despite a massive police operation and huge publicity worldwide, she has not been found.
Four months after she disappeared, Portuguese police made both Mr and Mrs McCann "arguidos", or formal suspects, in the case. Two days later, on September 9 2007, the couple returned to Britain with their two other children, twins Sean and Amelie.
Last July the Portuguese attorney-general shelved the investigation and lifted the McCanns' arguido status.
'Something needed his urgent attention and that is why he went rather than delay matters'
Wizard I wonder what that important something was and why would it require this:
'Mr McCann, 40, from Rothley, Leicestershire, said his brief trip to Portugal would be "the first of several" over the next few months. He also indicated a willingness to improve relations with the Portuguese authorities'
'In an interview with news agency Lusa, Mr McCann pledged to work "as much as possible" with officials in Portugal to look for Madeleine.'
Especially as the case was archived due to insufficent evidence to charge them with her disapeareance. Mmmm!
Hi!
Zodiac, agree with you, no
need to see the lawyers in Portugal. I belive it's just a PR-stunt as Hope says, to show the world :"Hey, we are innocent and our child is alive and well!" And to get a "feeling" how it is to be back in Portugal... Whatever happend to Madeleine, I'm sure both parents will have a need to go back to the crime-scene sooner or later...
You might be right Wizard: "Ho hum – more money entering the fund without frightening Claudia the Mc’s will soon have enough money to buy a property in Portugal for the purposes of having a base from which to orchestrate their own search for their daughter in Portugal – of course.
Zodiac,
“Wizard I wonder what that important something was and why would it require this:”
Well this is the question we all want to know and why is it necessary for him to return several times in the coming months. I for one do not believe the reasons he gives.
Hi guys!
I too am glad that we can still debate here.
Excellent posts and not much I can add but I did notice that the picture on the front of the Portuguese paper on Joana Morais' site is a classic Gerry-tugging-on-ear photo that has been extracted from the Portuguese interview. I wonder why, out of all of the stills they could have used from that interview, that that was the one that was chosen? I think the editor is very canny ;-) Well done to Destak!
xx
Hi all
The pink one has his paws all over this one imo, hence the reason he is very much in the background.
Gerry back in Portugal of his own free will, hmmm where shall I start. Pink porkies comes to mind.
Perhaps I should have said trotters instead of paws ;o)
Well one thing is for sure, Gerry is tenacious in wishing to establish he and Kate's "innocence". After all if he never manages to do that, he will never hit the jackpot he has always dreamed of, the books, the films, the American chat shows. What better way to do that, he would reason than demonstrating he is finally co-operating with the Portuguese authorities, hence the need to speak to lawyers, not private investigators.
The thing is Gerry, regardless of whether you murdered your child or allowed her to abducted and then told a pack of lies to the police preventing her recovery, you are responsible for her death. You are a criminal, who showed no remorse and cashed in on your own daughter. Nothing will ever change that.
I hope the British and Portuguese are giving you hell and keeping you there!
xx
In fact how foolish of me to think the McCanns might finally have crawled back under their stone.
Why no they have been carefully working away behind the scenes, ready for their next onslaught in that impossible task of making themselves look like nice parents.
Di, it would be very interesting to get the employment status of the Pink One. He got the sack and went elsewhere, but now he is back, with many a tale to tell for his favourite clients.
What a challenge eh Clarence making the public love Kate and Gerry McCann! If you think you could pull off such a publicity stunt you really do have an oversized ego, don't you! Oh well you could always employ a few more bloggers:-)))) Rosie is getting lonesome!
Well anyway guys, I thought I needed a break so have just booked to clear off to Tunisia for two weeks in May with my parents and Luke, which will be nice.
Personally popping off somewhere overnight, having a conference with the TV and lawyers, in a country where you are very unwelcome, does not seem like much of a break to me, oh the stress! Poor Gezza! I am sure Kate is feeling much better though, a whole night without him!
Hi Viv
According to 3A's Gerry is now back on English soil, after a positive meeting and pleased with the way it went.
What would this meeting be for, are we being pinked, or are they covering something that is about to unfold?
Hi Viv
Good for you booking hols in Tunisia. I for one can't wait to see the pics especially of your fantastic Mum.
Viv
Precious has been outed as R/Pops would you agree?
From 3A's posted by Jeanne d'Arc
Office (PGR) said today that the case concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in the Algarve will be reopened only if there 'new facts, credible and relevant "in a reaction to statements by the child's father
The father of Madeleine McCann expressed Tuesday their intention to cooperate with the Portuguese authorities in the search of her daughter, disappeared in the Algarve in May 2007, believing that there are steps that can still be made in research.
"We think there is a very good chance of Maddie still be found alive and in good health and therefore we want the search continues. We want to emphasize our desire to work with the authorities as much as possible, 'said the agency Lusa Gerry McCann, who arrived Tuesday for a visit to Portugal for two days only.
Requested by Lusa today to comment on these statements by Gerry McCann, the PGR responded in writing stating that the process can only be reopened if new facts are presented, credible and relevant ", without further comment any more.
In an interview with Lusa, the father of Madeleine McCann said he now returned to Portugal for the first time since September 2007, to discuss with his lawyer, Rogerio Alves, the best way to collaborate with the Portuguese authorities to "explore steps which has not yet been taken and that could make a difference. "
For this, said it is important to analyze the process and all the research so far 'not to duplicate that steps have been taken "and also" not to waste resources.
Madeleine McCann, then three years old, disappeared on 3 May 2007 of the room where I slept with the two twin brothers, younger, in an apartment of the Ocean Club tourist resort in Praia da Luz, district of Lagos, Algarve .
The parents, both doctors (cardiologist is the father, the mother general practitioner), dinner at that time with a group of English friends in a restaurant of the tourist resort, about 50 meters from the apartment.
On 14 May 2007, the Portuguese-British Robert Murat was made accused in the disappearance of the girl, after being interrogated at the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) of the Judicial Police (PJ) in Portimão.
The Sept. 7 of that year, the child's mother, Kate, and father, Gerry McCann, were also made defendants, after a further interrogation in DIC.
The PJ initially pointed to the possibility of abduction, but later admitted the death of the child, but authorities never managed to establish what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
On 21 July 2008, the Attorney General's Office officially announced the closure of research and archiving of the suspicions against Kate and Gerry McCann and Robert Murat.
The mystery of the disappearance of the child and the apparent lack of solid clues to explain what happened helped make this event one of the most media ever.
Hiya Di, thanks, you will get to see the pics on the blog!
All I can see is these meetings are of a legal nature. They are clearly nothing to do with finding his daughter. There is nothing at all to stop Gerry having PIs working there right now or indeed last July when the police shelved the investigation. Generally when there a series of high level meetings going on with lawyers, something is being negotiated. So given he is doing this in Portugal I can only assume the lawyers are negotiating for him with the Portuguese Police. I do not know whether he is threatened with action by the Police e.g. for peverting the course of justice/obstructing the police by all of their lies. For all we know the British Police may have hauled Kate and Gerry in for questioning and a warning about their position if they do not start telling the truth. I think it may be Gerry is seeking to negotiate immunity from prosecution if he does now start telling the truth or maybe a lessening of any charges he may face. I think in any negotiations with the police he will have been backed into a corner. It is very significant Maddie was actually made a Ward of Court in April 2008 after continuing investigations by Rebelo and the British Police. This leads me to conclude that certain decisions were made at that stage about the conduct of Kate and Gerry, they effectively had the right to make decisions about Maddie removed from them. When you put it in the balance my feeling is she may well have been abducted. I am not suggesting they actually arranged that but it is possible. I think it is more likely their criminal neglect brought that situation about, and then when faced with a hefty prison sentence they started to tell a lot of lies to the police and so did all their mates. So, even if they did not actually kill Maddie they are still in very serious trouble with the police. I believe Mrs Justice Hogg completely knows the score!
I am not saying I am right, this is just what I currently think is quite possibly the case.
Viv xx
Interesting point made by Ironside posted off another site.
Do the McCanns have Diplomatic Immunity??
Hi Viv
Ooooh on the blog, well that's good news to me, May here we come ;o)
Viv
Meaning, good news you are keeping this blog going :o)))))
Just thinking out loud. Public opinion is still suspicious of the McCanns and their very expensive and prolonged public relation campaign hasn’t paid off. This impacts on them professionally with no doubt advancement being thwarted, doors remaining shut that once might have been open. It would be logical for them to attempt again to put to bed once and for all the possibility of any guilt on their part for their missing daughter – these suspicions after all currently shrouds them. (With good reason imo.) GM, with no doubt an eye on career advancement, would wish to perpetuate the abduction theory and at least place in the public domain his willing to work with the pj and assure people that he is still actively looking for his daughter. Perhaps as already suggested this is what is being played out now. A renewed thrust in their pubic relations campaign.
Hi Viv, nice to hear of summer holidays makes me forget the cold grey days we have at present, at least in my neck of the woods. I wouldn’t mind going to Tunisia or Morocco this year but am a bit worried that we will be followed about by street vendors as in Luxor last year which spoilt our stay.
Hiya Wizard
Good post! People often say when they are involved in lengthy legal actions or they are under suspicion by the police it is like their whole life is on hold and they really need that process to come to an end before they can get on with their life. We can take some of the remarks particularly of Gerry that confirm this. I just want to get back to normal and get back to work. Kate, my life is just not normal since I lost her etc.
I have always thought that the battle for public opinion is terribly important to them. That is because they know the public quite rightly suspect them of all sorts of criminal activity. There has undoubtedly been a Herculean public relations exercise in seeking to change that view. As you say, being under that cloud will always affect their life. Gerry is a very proactive type of person. He is constantly thinking up schemes to change their lot. Maybe this is just the latest scheme, but it smacks of sheer desperation to me and I really do think his back is against the wall, not just from the public, but from the police!
If they did kill Madeleine I can see no reason why the Portuguese Police would agree to re-open this case but that is what he seems to be about. I can only think of one way he could persuade the police to re-open the case, by making specific admissions.
At the end of the day, as we have so extensively discussed, there is an awful lot of evidence that so clearly suggests Maddie died that afternoon or evening at their hands. But I do remember my attitude when I first commented on the Daily Express way back in Sept or Oct 07, whether she was abducted or whether they killed her, they are responsible. There is nothing Kate and Gerry can do to change that simple fact. Now I think well Mrs Justice Hogg made Maddie a Ward of Court, why would she have done that if she absolutely knew that she was dead? The Portuguese Police file indicates it is more likely she is dead and indeed that would be the case even if she was abducted.
Kate and Gerry McCann have behaved in the most appalling and criminal fashion that leaves any right thinking person with the view they are bad news and not safe to look after kids. I think they need to accept there is nothing they can do to change that.
They cannot reverse their own media campaign and their behaviour, their laughing, jogging and blogging when they had lost their own little girl and it is that, that has convinced the public! They can thank Clarence Mitchell for being their paid liar and making people loathe them even more.
Viv xx
Viv, I agree with you. What is one of the strangest reactions is as stated in your last paragraph.
“They cannot reverse their own media campaign and their behaviour, their laughing, jogging and blogging when they had lost their own little girl and it is that, that has convinced the public! They can thank Clarence Mitchell for being their paid liar and making people loathe them even more.”
I can never get my head round this as whatever happened to Madeleine what we do know for certain is she’s gone. This must be such a terrible shock to happen to parents even if they were guilty in some way but the McCann behaviour is so, so unusual.
Di re diplomatic immunity, this only applies to reps of foreign governments working in a different jurisdiction i.e. on a diplomatic mission and they should not be harassed whilst there.
There was nothing diplomatic about the McCanns trip to Portugal! How quick did they run when made arguidos! Sorry but I think this is an absurd suggestion!!
Wizard, I know you have qualifications in psychology and of course I did a bit for my degree to be a Probation Officer but I think it would take many, many experts to try and expertly explain the conduct of Kate and Gerry McCann!! It is completely bizarre and that just adds to the mystery of this case and the feeling of just how terrible it may be!
xx
Viv
Why dont you go to Portugal?
Viv
Glad you pointed that out re: Diplomatic, my oh said exactly the same thing.
How quickly did they run when made arguidos!
Exactly Viv, you can run but you cannot hide!
Viv
Precious has been outed as R/Pops would you agree?
Oh definitely! Whining about how I can say what I like but it has to watch its mouth, no love lost:-)))
So it goes back to its own blog and complains to itself about my mental health:-)))
There is something unmistakable about the way that person writes, and the sheer venom that exudes, I am in no doubt!
xxxx
BT
I may well go to Portugal because it is a beautiful country and I have never been but it would not be anything to do with this case. I am no Bennett, my private life is my own!
I would not go in May though, according to Kate and Gez the weather was not extra and being able to swim in the sea is always a must for me!
xxx
Hi Viv
Thought so due to the manic posts.
Glad to see most people ignore her.
x
Di,
'Precious has been outed as R/Pops would you agree?'
Definitely is in my opinion.
Viv,
I cannot accept abduction I think at the very least the child got out and wandered into danger. Remember she was not invited along to the beach that afternoon with her friends and her mother so lovingly informed her of her exclusion from the fun of the beach. Perhaps the little one thought well I am off to the beach too. The sea is a large dangerous place. Then Eddie and Keela apt and car vids, blood spats, the checking of breathing of the remaining children and JT's oh so unbelievable eggman with his heavy coat and long hair who climbed out of a small window of opportunity with a nearly 4-year old child and did not leave a trace anywhere bring me back to GA's conclusion.
Viv
They have some nice lakes in Portugal off the beaten track I hear ! Not least you could meet Claudia and go jogging on the beach together.
A reminder to all that the first person at the scene of a crime is the first suspect. There are people on that trip clever enough to know that and it may not be a coincidence that it was Kate who 'found' Madeleine missing.She did not return to Portugal yesterday did she.
Just been reading back to earlier posts about the Evening STandard/Mail whipping up support and ahem cash for poor Kate and Gez with an unreserved they did not do it, sorry ! How bloody sickening, that must explain Gez saying they had limited resources and forgetting he actually had £800,000, that will be another bollosin for you Pinkish Hue (now Purple we gave him a complex about his army of pink shirts).
Looking at one of Gerry's remarks, this is quite inexplicable but also interesting. Firstly, what went on in the past is Maddie disappeared without trace and as he says that is done. But he now wants to focus on what can still be done, just missed the next bit to restore his reputation and get him out of trouble with the police. The "by and large" is interesting, this suggests to me that in his own mind, he knows damn fine that what happened in the past still holds really bad consequences for him! Focus on what can still be done for the search is just one of those meaningless phrases. "the search" is not the issue, it is the fact his daughter has disappeared without trace and that happened almost two years ago. Why would he be wanting to focus on what can still be done when he has done precisely nothing in Portugal for the last 16 months, how does he expect the public to accept that demonstrates any concern for his little girl who was "abducted by a gang of Portuguese paedophiles". Sometimes I am not sure if he is a psychopath or whether he has just completely lost the plot altogether. I am sure all of this has been a terrible blow to his ego and ability to obfuscate, plot and confuse with his superior intellect. If there is one thing such people hate it is another who can see through such a person, like Goncalo Amaral can! Still Gerry has lost with trying to bury that man, he is riding on a wave of popularity and about to now achieve high political office also. Not for you though eh Gez, shame, shame, the road to fame and fortune must move on!
"We want to make it absolutely clear what's gone on in the past is, by and large, done and we very, very much want to focus on what can still be done for the search
Viv
An abduction takes out Eddie and Keela's evidence with the bloodspats and all the rest of it like washing cuddle cat. I dont think you are seeing straight tonight !!!!
Zodiac
I agree, abduction is something I am not happy with.
However, if someone could prove me wrong, as a mother, I would be more than happy. Sadly I don't think so but I wait in hope.
He does not want to be in Portugal. He is there because he has to be.
Off now
Nite all
x
The question is why does he HAVE to be there?
Hiya Zodiac
I have by no means lost sight of all the reasons why it clearly looks like they killed Maddie!
I think I am just letting my own thought processes of late into the public domain because it widens the discussion as to what may have happened.
I am most certainly still saying that come what may, these two are the original parents from hell!
I do believe the twins were drugged and there is every reason to think that Maddie was also. This is not just a matter of what we think it is what the evidence tells us. They would not wake up in spite of screaming and Kate kept checking their breathing, Gerry's smirking ear pulling, left me in absolutely no doubt he was lying and sometimes very angry, bouncing off the set. When all else fails anger can take over. That would have made it much easier to cart her off. It is not in any doubt either that those children woke up crying, left alone, and they went and left them again. They admit to that! It is also clearly admitted they could have been drugged, Gerry himself said so!
I think deep down you know what I think, but have to offer these thoughts up as well as part of a sensible debate. In fact sometimes what I think about Kate and Gerry and what they are capable of is quite unprintable!
xx
BT
Just as I was leaving you have to ask WHY does he HAVE to be there?
You will have to anwser me now or I will never sleep pleeease.
It is almost like they staged everything to make an abduction possible or look like it was possible. Where does that take us? Think of the PJs question to Kate did you want to hand over custody..
Think of how quickly they had everything in place, the lawyers, the trademarking, the fund. I think I have always been against this being "an accident". Whatever happened, it seems to me, it was very possibly by design.
I have said in the past that drugging your children to get them to sleep so you can leave them, being a qualified doctor or even anaesthetist into the bargain, looks very close to murder and as you say that remark of Kate's demonstrates real cruelty. Quite unfathomable really and the thing I think Wizard is hinting at, she does not even seem to realise it is a bizarre thing to say!
xx
Viv,
I am not saying that you now believe it was an abduction and do understand why it has to be mentioned. I personally do not believe they or one of them killed her physically/intentionally (but I do not know and that does not mean that is not what did happen) I am following the same conclusions as GA have done since 4/5/07. Eddie and Keela and everything else just keep on confirm my beliefs. As I have said before I have faith in your belief that this is an ongoing investigation. His return today and more expected just re-inforce my belief in your views. After all if M3 are guilty of false sightings etc then surely they are guilty by association and would have to be questioned regarding this matter. I am sure time will tell and the PT Press/Media/Posters will keep us updated and squash the Pinkpoops McPropaganda like a bug!
BBFN read you all tomorrow.
My own view of why he has to be there Di is because he is fighting with his lawyers to save himself and Kate and not just from public opinion!
xx
He has to be there for one of two options (IMO)
1) Us mere mortals have been told he is visiting his lawyers to help find Madeleine blah blah BUT it could well be he has been requested to return by the Portugese.ie A legal thing.
2) Maybe the people who are giving them the funds or his extended family have requested that they co-operate in the investigation in order to receive further funds and support. These people may now be doubting his/her innocence and this is an answer from him to show them he is innocent in order to regain social acceptance from the family and further funding from his backers and third parties. ie He wants those close to him to stop questioning him and he is returning to clean his image. In short, he is probably guilty but this is a way of trying to clean his image for those close to him.
ie an image thing.
Hopefully we will find out soon !!
In my mind I cannot see how almost 20 months on those around him would not be asking him awkward questions.
Hi BT
Well good point why accept what we are told!
It could certainly be the case he had a meeting with lawyers and the PJ but that would be contrary to the statement they have issued that they will not re-open the process without more evidence. Hence I said earlier he may be prepared to make specific admissions to get that. Whether they will be honest admissions is another matter. By that I meant perhaps he would admit that they did alter the timelines to try and cover negligence. As far as I know these offences have a time bar on them in Portugal. So he would reason it is OK to admit they failed to co-operate by admitting Maddie was left alone for a whole hour because he can no longer be prosecuted for child neglect and it would mean the PJ had to re-open the case. If they do that he and Clarence will then say, told you so, it was an abduction, see the PJ are investigating that again now! I had to learn to get into the way a criminal mind works and that can be like a game of chess with someone like Gerry, always working out several moves ahead.
Thanks Zodiac !
His return today and more expected just re-inforce my belief in your views. (that the police are still investigating)
I actually find it quite extraordinary that people apparently genuinely believe we would not still be investigating this matter! What is abundantly apparent is Kate and Gerry have committed some very serious crimes against their daughter and are a very peculiar couple. This has results in the almost certain death of a little British girl abroad. To suggest this would not excite the continuing attention of the police until they crack this couple is extraordinary IMO!
xx
If the Portugese police believe Madeleine is dead as they do then for Gerry to go and admit negligence he would be put straight into jail. If he was admitting something the Portugese would simply re-open the case(IMO)
So my conclusion is he is trying to clean his image for further funds and social acceptance. He is doing it now because at first those around had empathy and support but after a while it is natural to question and they are probing. In other words he has to be in Portugal in his mind to prove to them he is innocent and he has nothing to be scared of etc.
The Portugese can wait and wait and wait and wait and watch and watch and watch.
Now my bed and wife await me :)
Hiya BT
But maybe Gerry knows he is going to jail anyway, he looked very troubled to me! Sometimes what lawyers try to do for clients in a very bad situation is mitigate. The PJs certainly have the whip hand with this boy!
Anyway maybe I should put in another appearance on the 3As given it really upsets the Pros:
Mum21 said...
Having just endured reading 50 pages of cr-p about Gerry's trip to Portugal on the 3A's I could only find one sensible post.
What planet do most of these 3A's posters come from. But I thank God for small mercies...Viv was nowhere to be seen!
Waves to you Bum:-))) "I will be back"!
Hi Viv!
Chuffed you are going to Tunisia - two of my freinds went and had a great time and loads of happy memories.
Now for the not so fluffy bit:
'When you put it in the balance my feeling is she may well have been abducted'
I'm afraid I am in agreement with Zodiac, but maybe not so well informed as the good lady herself. I am confused as to this statement of yours and understand what you say about having to put a fair and just arguement out to keep this blog balanced and non-judgemental, however, after all of the evidence that we have seen, discussed and thrashed out for well over a year now, I must say that your opinion leaves me speechless!
IMO, there is no way that this poor child was abducted. We know this from the cadaver evidence, the contradictory statements from the parents and the Tapas group, the
fact that it would have been impossible for a window of oportunity of abduction to have been found, the sheer bed of lies that have been force-fed to the press and maybe, most sinister of all, the fact that the parents just 'knew' she had been abducted and not just wandered off when there is no evidence left by an abductee at all!
I still, and will always maintain, that Maddie died in that appartment. All of the evidence collected points to that and there is zero evidence to suggest that a an abductee was ever present, ever existed. In the name of science, that makes an abduction impossible.
Occham's razor says:
I think it is Occham's razor..'it is more accurately referring to the
simplest solution is more likely when all other things are equal.'
In the case of Maddie, when all other things are taken into account, all things being equal, the simplest solution is that she died in that appartment. The evidence points to that. Trying to "fit in" the abduction scenario, with all things being equal, over-complicates the scenario. Therefore, I do not accept that this is the case!
If you don't agree with me, that's fine, but don't expect me to send Mr Resumay on to you soon! ;-)
xx
Hiya Dilly
I am sure I will have a great time in Tunisia, my mom and step dad have been there loads of times so I am sure we will find our way around the souks etc!
I think it is reasonable to consider all options and by doing that it is clearly flagging up some interesting points of view!
My post above was suggesting the end of the debate and two possibilities a or b. In other words it actually has provoked a very interesting debate and of course right on cue Gerry added to that enormously.
The simple fact is that from all the evidence we have been allowed to see the death of Maddie in the apt seems the most likely. What I am saying is the other option cannot be ruled out.
I think it is important to remember "the evidence we have been allowed to see". We have only been allowed to see just one third of the PJ file and nothing at all of LP, SOCA etc files, they are confidential. So in fact we cannot form a concluded opinion on the evidence we can only say what we feel from what we know but there is an awful lot missing to inform that view. There is no doubt about that.
If you talk about the simplest scenario then I would suggest it has to be what I set out in point b above. i.e we know they left her alone from 9 until 10, they were very neglectful parents who had a lot to feel guilty about. By leaving three babes like that and getting one abducted they would not need it explained to them they had committed an imprisonable offence. So that is a very good reason to lie and for their likeminded friends to join them in that lie. We also know they altered the original timeline written out by Russell O'Brien showing there was no check on the McCanns children at all between 9 and 10 to one that had the word "Gerald" written on it and inserted a check by Mat Oldfield at 9.30. In this way as they say they were complying with the Mark Warner child listening system. It is a sad and pathetic excuse but enabled them to avoid being prosecuted for child neglect!
If we want truth and justice for Maddie I think we have to be alive to every possibility and remember the Portuguese Police could not back either theory with any great enthusiasm but the AG did say he felt it more than likely the little girl died. He was in fact as confused as I am if you look at what he actually said having viewed all of the evidence in the case.
I think what has made me take this stance is a certain idiot who is publishing a book giving 60 reasons which do not even reflect the evidence that we do have and is demanding an inquest on a child whose body has just not been found. This is not the calm and reasonable analysis of a lawyer who should just stick to the known facts. He should also let the police deal with a case where the truth has still to be established.
If you read what I say above, I still feel it is very possible the McCanns killed Maddie and I suspect we are getting nearer to knowing what really happened in spite of how Gerry and Clarence would choose to spin it. Such serious neglect that has still led to Maddie's almost certain death and a lot of lies would still merit a substantial custodial sentence particularly if they actually arranged for her to be abducted. But at the end of the day the evidence of the dogs.. and Gerry's reaction to it(!)
Maybe there are those on both sides of the debate who have wanted to promote a very fixed point of view. That has nothing to do with honestly enquiring of the truth and wanting to find out what happened to Maddie. It has everything to do with the promotion of self interest.
Thanks Viv :-)
That clarifies it for me as I now think that I catch your drift. I must have been having one of my many duh! moments! You are certainly correct in saying that it has sparked more debate which is ironic given the title of this thread!
Off to have a look at your new thread.
xx
Post a Comment