The above pic emailed to me by a friend was apparently taken on 19 May, just sixteen days after Madeleine disappeared. One might query what Gerry is laughing so happily about? I do not know what others think but the one child in the pushchair does not look like Sean or Amelie and I cannot imagine why Kate is fiddling with the hair of the sleeping child, other than her picture was being taken? Does anyone know who this child is?In the video below from BBC news it is confirmed the PJ will arrive next Monday and will sit in on interviews to commence on Tuesday. Not just the TAPAS 7 will be "quizzed again" but also relatives and advisers who were with the McCanns in PDL at the time will also be interviewed. This is therefore a major evidence gathering exercise and it is understood even Dr Rebelo will be among the small group of detectives who come to the UK.
It states the McCanns friends gave the police a timeline of events and now the police want to go over that evidence again.
Jane Tanner is stated to be a key witness who needs to be re-interviewed and the video has a short clip of her remarks from Panorama included.
It stresses that at this stage there are no plans to re-interview Kate and Gerry McCann but they do of course remain Arguidos FOLLOWING RECOVERY OF FORENSIC SAMPLES FROM THEIR HIRE CAR AND APARTMENT AFTER MADELEINE'S DISAPPEARANCE. Significantly, also, no mention is made of Murat, whatsoever.
So everything the Mechanics have been telling us is false. WE will all recall ~Rosiepops insisting the PJ are not coming back, there is no forensic evidence and Murat she insisted should be re-interviewed with endless writing on her blog of his "guilt". I wish Mr Murat a lot of nice compensation money for their wicked libel against him perpetuating the lies of the McCanns friends about him.
As the article dated January from the Daily Express below confirms the McCanns have been expecting this and feel they will be charged. Well at least I agree with them about that!
Viv x
MADELEINE: MCCANNS FEAR CHARGES SOON DEMANDS: Police want Kate's diary Wednesday January 9,2008 By David Pilditch Have your say(1118) KATE and Gerry McCann fear they will be charged over daughter Madeleine’s disappearance as Portuguese police begin the final phase of their bid to put the couple on trial.Sources close to the couple yesterday said they feared that after months of apparent inactivity, the investigation had developed a new momentum which appeared to be directed solely at proving the McCanns are guilty.A formal request demanding fresh interrogations and the seizure of Kate’s diary and Madeleine’s Cuddle Cat toy was sent from the prosecutors office on the Algarve on Monday and will be immediately served on Home Secretary Jacqui Smith.She will then pass it to Leicestershire police – possibly as early as tomorrow. A source close to the family yesterday revealed: “Kate and Gerry insist they are innocent but they fear they will be charged.“Naturally Kate and Gerry are concerned that if this line of inquiry continues to its natural conclusion, charges are always a possibility and they know that’s entirely wrong.”He added: “The Portuguese police seem to be blinkered in their approach and it feels like they want to find the McCanns guilty regardless.” The Portuguese dossier contains up to 100 questions that detectives want answered by the McCanns and their friends they had dinner with – known as the Tapas Nine – on May 3 last year, the night Madeleine vanished. Leaks claim police have identified a number of “inconsistencies” among their statements and it has been claimed two of the group Jane Tanner and Russell O’Brien want to change their accounts – something the pair have denied. Portuguese detectives will fly to the UK in the coming days to sit in on the interviews which will be carried out by officers from Leicestershire police. for: Investigators also believe entries in Kate’s diary – in which she allegedly revealed how she was struggling to cope with her three hyperactive children – prove she killed her daughter.Police sources on the investigation are reported to have revealed that blood found in Kate and Gerry’s flat and hire car has been confirmed as belonging to their missing daughter.They said fresh tests prove the parents were involved in her death and the disposal of her body.
548 comments:
1 – 200 of 548 Newer› Newest»Viv
I see no pictures of George :o(
Viv, I think that is Amelie on the left and Tanner's daughter on the right.
This was posted on sassy site and if you believe granny is now posting on there you will believe anything
maya said...
Just wanted to say thank you for the support your comments show for Kate and Gerry. I am Madeleine's Grandmother. I have been destroyed recently by comments I have seen on some blogs /forums. I began to feel that the world was full of vicious and sick people rejoicing in hurting Kate and Gerry who are hurting so much anyway. People who didn't care about Madeleine at all.
I have always believed that the world was full of basically decent caring people. Thanks to reading your comments I think I was right. Evil people who take children and destroy families and those who delight in such, are not the majority. You are the majority, thank God.I can face tomorrow feeling stronger for your comments. Kate and Gerry and the family will spend the rest of our lives working to improve legislation etc for missing and abducted children and supporting their families. Please God Madeleine is returned to us and we can heal her with our love.
Thank You so much x
31 March 2008 21:54
Wizard. If you are correct then this picture could not have been taken on the 19th.May.
Because the Tanners had left Portugal by then. In fact I believe all the friends had returned to England by that date.
Yes, thanks Wizard, I thought I had seen the child before and she looks about the right age.
Viv x
Oh and just to make myself clear I am not rejoicing that Kate and Gerry are hurting it does not make me happy.
And I do care about Madeleine as I care about Shannon and all the un named children I dont know who are missing or are unhappy. Wish I could think of something practical to do for them but with so many sick people out there that wish to harm children because it is thier perversion where do you start?
Night all...
It's Sarah Payne's child, Viv. She is on the bus video with her mum, the one with the last moving images of Madeleine.
Annonymous/Madeline's grandmother,
If it is you on the forum (Mrs Healy?) fair play. However, Kate and Gerry did not act like decent human beings when they left their three young children alone night after night to go out boozing with their mates. They are both doctors - they could well afford a babysitter.
Though I believe the evidence as presented by far by the police and the police dogs, I do feel for Kate and Gerry. Whatever the outcome of the criminal investigation, they have lost Madeline. But they should take some responsibility for the neglecting their children - if they were minding them, or had hired a babysitter, there would have been no "abduction".
That said, they are in my prayers tonight.
Kate and Gerry and the family will spend the rest of our lives working to improve legislation etc for missing and abducted children and supporting their families.
----------------------------------
Dear Maya, madeleine's grandmother (not),
I'm glad you and all the family will spend all of your lives improving legislation for missing and abducted children and supporting their families. That is a very good cause. I also hope you can all dedicate a bit of your time and fund money to improve legislation on child neglect so ALL child neglecters are punished and sent to the place they belong.
Whoops - I had a mistake, Granny Mccann/Mrs Healy was being quoted, she's not here. (Sorry, its getting late).
The heat is on so, if she's posting on the forums.
Justice for Madeline, and all neglected children.
Hello Doc
Oh, so that explains Anon's point then because the Payne's did stay on in PDL with the McCanns, I recall. Otherwise it would have meant Gerry was in such a happy mood even sooner!
Even so, I still find it utterly unfathomable and really quite bizarre that they could proclaim their child is being indulged in by some sick paedophile and yet be laughing so happily.
Actually there is another pic even sooner where they both laughing and having a great time apparently, letting go of balloons on the beach, the fundraiser on Madeleine's birthday, the 12th if I recall..Just what can you feel about this other than utter disgust. Poor little Madeleine xxxx
That particular photo you mention is disgusting, Viv.
Hiya Penelope
It does seem very unlikely that Nan would post on that forum but if she is, well yes the heat is certainly upon them.
Having said that I am sure I read Nan Healy likes the internet and blogging, who knows but they do write hundreds of such ridiculous and offensive posts...
Viv x
Here we go again
maya said...
Dear All
I seem to have caused some doubt as to my identity. I truly am Susan Healy my cat is called Maya which is why I posted under this name. I am not familiar with using blogs but google alert e mailed your site and on reading your comments I felt I would respond.I was comforted by your comments and wished to thank you.
As you are obviously aware family comments can be misquoted, I therefore deliberated prior to responding publicly.
Please continue as if I had not posted, I just wanted to thank you.
31 March 2008 23:22
Hiya Doc
This does look genuine..what utterly bizarre behaviour to publically comment like that and endorse such a dreadful site!
I just dont know what to think!
Viv x
Honestly, I don't believe it. WWW, remember, dear Viv? :-)
Endorse a dreadful site? Ever asked yourself why noone ever posts here unless the other blog is down?
How many evenings have you spent chatting to yourself here because everyone is ignoring you? As soon as the other site is up, you'll be back to chatting to yourself again. And why? Aren't you fed up with people from A's using you like this?
I think it's building up to be some kind of bizarre April Fool's joke. A VERY recognisable character was posting using the name 'viqu' earlier.
Nick
I find it truly extraordinary that you could suggest no one ever posts here - take a look at the number of posts this site has had over the last few months and dont be so utterly silly!
Viv x
doc, viqu is an American chappie.
Hiya Claudia
Let us hope it is not Susan Healy because in their true welcoming style they told her to clear off and take her medication!
No wonder there are still only about five of them!
Viv x
Sassy/Rosie whatever
Pi** off back to your own House of Filthy..you bore me:-)
Oh and please feel free to bleat and wail about how I swore at youxxxxx
Truth hurts, eh.
You lot must spend most of your time reading the blog you dislike so much.
Is it really that boring on here?
Viv
Do you honestly think that if someone doesnt agree with you it has to be one of two people? Not the cleverest are you. Enjoy the company you have while it lasts. They'll soon all be back to Alsabella's.
Anonymous - you took the words out of my mouth.
Viv, I don't believe it for one minute. But if this world is even stranger than I already know it is and that poster is genuine, than I think she would be more welcomed by the antis! :-)
The idiot saying there are few posts here over these last months obviously isn't trying to do what I'm trying to do! ;-)
Claudia
You only came here because the other blog was down. You never showed your face you hypocrite.
Hiya Claudia
If she wanted to post here, she would be more than welcome, they are paranoid about anyone who dares to visit their exclusive little club.
Speaking of which, what do you think about the announcement on our BBC (and therefore likely to be very accurate) PJ also want to interview relatives as well. Do you know how long they are actually going to be staying? Are there any new reports in Portugal? I can see from BBC PJ do not want all this discussed so maybe not!
Viv x
No, Viv, I can't say I've heard anything here about that. All we've heard is that the PJ was going to the UK. But I've been a bit busy in the last couple of days so I might have missed something. But not something really important or I would have been told, I'm sure.
Thanks darling and nite nite
Maybe we leave "Nick" to have a nice little chat with itself. It is the witching hour after all!
Luv Viv x
Idiot Nick, I already posted here before Alsabella even dreamed of having a blog. Look to your right... Obviously people can't be in two places at the same time. Although I have been accused a lot lately of being able to pull that one off! Tee hee he
Sleep well, minha querida amiga. And you're right. Again. I'm also leaving. Have another early start tomorrow. :-)
Beijinhos. Dorme bem.
Claudia
And as soon as Alsabella got her blog you disappeared. Don't sugar-coat it honey. You are here because the other blog is down and as soon as it is up again, you'll be off with all the others.
Viv knows that too. She was struggling to get anyone to post here before A's went belly up.
Idiot Nicky, divide and conquer... Does not work. Won't shut us up. Wait and see. And believe me, the wait is going to be worth it. One of these days you'll sure remember what I said. ;-)
Hi Nick,
Totally agree with you.
Poor Viv will be left alone again with the only company of drippy Hope, unfunny LGC(little ghoulish Creep), demented 2345, and weirdo leigh.
All those voices will have to reappear again.
Claudia is a turncoat and a traitor.
Claudia,
you will go where you can orchestrate the hate campaign better.
Why don't you start your own blog?
Or are you happy just to stay in the background and let the others take the blame when it all go belly up?
Viv, Alsabella
Claudia is just using you for her own purposes. Ignore this at your peril
Claudia,
you will go where you can orchestrate the hate campaign better.
Why don't you start your own blog?
Or are you happy just to stay in the background and let the others take the blame when it all goes belly up?
Viv, Alsabella
Claudia is just using you for her own purposes. Ignore this at your peril
Claudia,
you will go where you can orchestrate the hate campaign better.
Why don't you start your own blog?
Or are you happy just to stay in the background and let the others take the blame when it all goes belly up?
Viv, Alsabella
Claudia is just using you for her own purposes. Ignore this at your peril
Claudia,
you will go where you can orchestrate the hate campaign better.
Why don't you start your own blog?
Or are you happy just to stay in the background and let the others take the blame when it all goes belly up?
Viv, Alsabella
Claudia is just using you for her own purposes. Ignore this at your peril
Claudia,
you will go where you can orchestrate the hate campaign better.
Why don't you start your own blog?
Or are you happy just to stay in the background and let the others take the blame when it all goes belly up?
Viv, Alsabella
Claudia is just using you for her own purposes. Ignore this at your peril
Claudia,
Why are you doing this to them?
Claudia, get a life...
Your behaviour is not normal.
The internet really does attract many weirdoes. Why so obcessed with Claudia, Rosiepops? Shouldn't you be obcessed instead with finding Madeleine? No, your purpose on the internet is not nobel. You are here to create division and to distabilize. You lot disgust me.
Doubting Thomas said"who are viv and alsa, are they reporters or bloggers?" You know Areepa, you were caught out last night posting as Doubting Thomas then forgetting to sign in as her and sign in as Areepa. Wonder why Rosi deleted it so fast. Don,t know who is the vilest, you for causing so much trouble or the scum who put you upto it.
Anon
Drippy Hope is that an insult dear?
LOL I would rather be a complete drip in your hard faced eyes than defend the neglect of small children and try and Bully anyone who dares to disagree with you.
Drippy v nasty I am the biggest drip in the world...
Are you lot so thick that you do not reaslies a lot of us would have given up a long time ago if you haddnt been so relentless in your task to make child neglect the in thing and anyone who speaks against it are insulted by being told they are perfect parents.
What is your next step to justify such vile and unnatural behaviour take your own children / grandchildren away to a strange place and leave them alone while you count the steps you take away from them and conratulate each other as you sit in a bar and celebrate the fact you are showing everyone you are just as bloody stupid.
Keep up the insults and your blogs about other neglectful parents who should be put on a pedestal and admired.
I hope Madeleine returns safe and well it is not likely and that is a heartbreaking thought as 3 year old children should be carefree and happy. Her parents well I would be delighted if they got a second chance who would not want this to have a semi happy ending? Would still not like them for all the spin and the neglect.
I say semi happy because if she is with a peadophile ring she will be damaged beyond anything love can heal but she will be alive and with the right care may never fully recover but will have a life.
Was it really worth a night in the bar to put her through all this? Peadophiles are vile Bastards who need taking off the street unfortunatly most abuse happends within the home or by friends and relatives you can never just asume your child is safe.
Which takes me to a question that makes me doubt them. If she was missing when Kate returned why did she not suspect a man who had been missing from the table for 45 minutes? Why did she not ask for his movements to be checked out? I am not saying this Man did anything to Madeleine but if I were in the same situation I would be screaming at all of the people with me to answer questions and want to know their every movement that night.
Hold your children close they are a gift not a right and all they ask for is love and protection from all the evil that is in the world.
Viv
I'm not trying to be antagonistic here but just stating my opinion. I would like to politely ask that you remove the picture shown above. I don't think that it is fair to publish a picture that can identify a child involved in all of this. I think the child should be afforded some anonimity. No one knows whether her parents are involved in this. I suspect not but even if they are the child is an innocent in all of this.
Good morning Hope!
Exellent post!
Have a nice day:)
Niki
Good morning all,
I see Granny Healey alledgely posted on Sassypops site. Looks to me more likely posted by someone on a time zone which was already into today for them when it was posted. We get enough bogus claims as it is, but I think today, unless anything can be proven with a link, we should take any "inside info leak" with a pinch of salt. What are we expecting to hear today The PJ said "April Fool everyone, we have and never have had any evidence".
Just had a look at DE, and there is an article where the HYS is allowed. Pukka wrote this:
THE MCCANNS VERSUS PORTUGUESE LAW
01.04.08, 2:15am
Gerry’s blog, Day 130 10/09/07
“…On Saturday we asked the Portuguese police if they had any objection to us coming back to the UK. We had assured them that we will continue to cooperate fully with the investigation and of course will return as requested and for our own emotional reasons….”
I won't even comment on the hypocrisy of two formal suspects in the alleged accidental murder and concealment of the body of a child, giving interviews to the media instead of answering the Portuguese Judiciary Police, and won't comment neither on the fact that the two parents who broke the Law in Portugal by abandoning and exposing their children to a very real chance of endangerment, Madeleine with almost 4 years old and the two year old twins, now try to assume a high profile role, as 'ambassadors' of all missing children in Europe. Something is smelling very bad, and I think it's the Moral decay of all who takes sides with this farce.
The Law
The law in Portugal says that it is a criminal offence, punishable by fine or incarceration or both, to leave a child under the age of 12 alone.
According to Portuguese law, a defendant faces up to 10 years in jail if a child dies as the result of being abandoned. Fortunately for the McCanns there is no concrete proof that Madeline is dead. According to an official spokesperson:
"The fact the McCanns were made arguidos means that there are justified suspicions against them of committing a crime"
From the Portuguese Penal Code:
Article 138.º
Exposure or Abandonment
1 - Whom endangers the life of another person:
a) By exposing the child in a place where the person is subject to a situation which the child cannot defend herself/himself from on her/his own;
or
b) By abandoning the child in a defenceless state, for motive of age, physical defect or illness, when the agent had the duty to guard, watch or assist to the person;
is punished with a prison term of 1 to 5 years.
2 - If the fact is practised by an ascendant or descendant, adoptant or adoptee of the victim, the agent is punished with a prison term of 2 to 5 years.
3 - If the fact results in:
a) Serious offence to the physical integrity, the agent is punished with a prison term of 2 to 8 years;
b) Death, the agent is punished with a prison term of 3 to 10 years.
• Posted by: Pukka • Report Comment
--
I hope he/she don't mind me copying it here...
Niki
Good morning Niki
Interesting post. I think many of us who are still not sure what really happened feel that the whole group have got away with it lightly bearing in mind Portuguese law. I for one, have always been highly critical of these continuous comments "we will do everything possible to assist the PJ" from the McCanns and their friend, yet they have done just the opposite. There was no need for this long delay in obtaining permission to ask further questions as it could have been volunteered long long ago and would have got any doubts out of the way (if they are all innocent) and refocused the case on abduction. However if that had happened the story would have died and they would not have got all the publicity they seem to thrive on. As quoted above "something is smelling bad"
Hi everyone, I have never posted before even though I have read you all from the DX days.
I am most definitly convinced that the parents had something to do with Madeleine's disapeareance but I'm really not sure about the neglect bit. My thoughts are that whatever happened neglect was the lessser of the two evils and that is why the parents made so much noise about it, to take the attention away from what really happened.
I join you in your defence of JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE and now I have taken the plunge may even dare to post again. Thanks for reading me.
I read that the questions that will be asked have been arranged through the Home Office. Can the PJ not ask any question that they want or are these interviews going to be scripted. It wouldn't suprise me if Clarrie has a copy of the questions already and the neglectful 9 have a copy too. Does anyone know if the seven have their own lawyers or are they using the Mccanns. I wonder who is paying their legal fees. I wonder indeed.
Hi elena
Just to say welcome and do post again as it is good to get all opinions. Regards the neglect bit, I think what some of are saying is that whether we accept it or not the law is the law of that country and therefore the whole Tapas group should consider themselves lucky they have not been charged. Many of our Portuguese posters feel that if this group had been Portuguese that would have been.
Niki,
While reading your post the words of KM from Viv's other thread kept popping into my head 'But it is important not to lose sight of the fact we haven't committed a crime.' She might believe that thousands wont, IMHO.
Annon. Who knows! I cannot see why there has been such a delay in the first place. I would have thought that the UK government would have done everything possible to speed up this questioning for the sake of a couple under suspicion for so long. I think if we really knew what goes on behind closed doors (not only with this case but many other things) we would ALL be up in arms
Hi Elena, welcome.
Hi Gina,
Have you completed your friends Birthday gift, I take it the computer survived? It is windy snd pouring here today.
Hi Gina
Yes, something is smelling really bad... Like this:
Fund Objectives
1.1 The full objects of the Fund are:
1.1.1 To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;
1.1.2 To procure that Madeleine’s abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice; and
1.1.3 To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine’s family.
1.2 If the above objects are fulfilled then the objects of the Foundation shall be to pursue such purposes in similar cases arising in the United Kingdom, Portugal or elsewhere.
1.1.3 To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine’s family.!!!!
Niki
(The above is from finmadeleine site)
Hi Zodiac
Yes!! I managed to do it, won't bored you with all the mishaps and foul language but got there in the end and am very pleased with it.
The weather is quite nice here at the moment, but yesterday we again had extremely high winds and it brought down 2 mimosa trees that I have been lovingly tending since I planted them 18 months ago. The were just beginning to flower and looked so pretty, and now they are gone :-(
Hi Gina, of course I know that the neglect is against the law and if they had been anyone else they would not have the twins with them now. What I mean is that they used neglect as an excuse for Madeleines disapearance when it is quite possible that there was no neglect or not so much as they would have us believe. Neglect being a lesser crime. Agreed they should think themselves damn lucky, IMO. I dont have all the facts from the early days as I dont live in GB. What I know is mainly what I have read here plus televised interviews which were false in the extreme.
Thanks for your welcome, off to clean for a bit, back later.
1.1.2 'as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them are identified and brought to justice'
Who was it that left the 3 children all aged 3 and under alone in a holiday apartment open to all kinds of danger, let alone abduction?
Hi elena, I do not live in Uk either. I am in Spain, where are you?
Hi Gina,
Sorry to hear about your Mimosa trees. When yo say 'gone' did they get blown away, or ruined. Can you not replant them?
Elena, welcome! First time I posted here I was terrified!!
Hi Zodiac!
No crime done in their opinion...
No guilt...
How many parents are not going through "hell" every day, torn apart of guilt, because they have lost their children in accidents! A relative of mine lost her son 60 (!!) years ago in an accident on his way to school. She still blamed herself for not walking him, until she died some years ago...
Niki
Zodiac they snapped off at ground level and blew about 100 yards. Maybe the root in the ground may regrow but it will take years before they become the same size and start flowering. Think I will replace them with pampas grass!!!!
When I moved into this place just over two year ago, it had just been built and there was no garden just builders mess. I have 13000 sq. metres most of which is left wild as it was olive groves. I took a farily large area around the pool and tried to make it pretty and it was very hard work but worth it. The trees just sort of finished it off and I was upset when I lost them, but I guess there is no point crying over it, it won't change anything.
Think I had better go now and do some work and before Viv thinks I have turned her blog into Gardeners World
Hiya,
Very busy at the mo but just had to pop in to give a link for LGC:
Flying penguins:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/epeng001.shtml?src=ip_potpw
Amazing! Opus, get ready for take-off!
Dyl x
Morning Viv!
Have you seen this page about the fund?
Anserws to a lot of questions.
http://www.findmadeleine.com/fund/faqs/
Have to run
Have a nice day:)
Niki
Argh! Forgot to paste one of the anserws I had copied...
14. What is the money being spent on?
The Fund is supporting the McCann family during their search for Madeleine and in ensuring a high profile of Madeleine’s abduction is maintained. Money spent to date has been on :
- supporting the private investigation to find Madeleine;
- ongoing public awareness raising ;
- establishing and updating the website ;
- family expenses; and,
- professional fee, including concerning international law on child abduction and the costs of setting up the Fund
--
Bye!
Niki 10.24am,
They beggar belief. Show no remorse for their actions. Yet expect us all to lap up all the propaganda dished out via their press. I think they thought it would be a piece of cake with their election, shame they do not seem to realise it is a live ongoing investigation where they are the Argudi.
Your realative, a true account of how a parent would feel.
Good morning everyone and welcome to newcomers!
Gina - sorry to hear about your trees - one thing we get plenty of in the Costa Blanca are high winds eh!! We have to tie everything down on our sun terrace upstairs when they start - even sheds have gone flying from roofs onto the roads!! Silly and dangerous think to do, putting sheds on roofs!!
Anonymous - I don't know why you want to waste your valuable time coming on here insulting Viv and everyone. I, for one, will continue blogging on Viv's site even when Alsabella returns - it's easy enough to switch from one to another - so put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Gina,
That is a shame, hope they do regrow. Remember Pampass grass planted in the front farden is a sign for other couples to visit! Your life in Spain sounds lovely. Are you able to get olives from the trees? I love olives. It always amazes me when abroad to see oranges and lemons growing on trees in the cities etc. Read you later.
Viv -
thanks for today's interesting and revealing blog - I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that photo of Gerry with a big smile on his face such a short time after Madeleine's disappeared - the same as that taken when he went to the States. Who could smile like that when he supposedly has no idea where his tiny daughter is or what is happening to her?
Since the first day this couple have acted in an extraordinarily 'cool' way which makes me wonder whether they do really know where Madeleine is - Kate saying 'we know what the truth is' - another strange thing to say, because they are more or less saying that they were involved in her disappearance.
Is it possible they know that Madeleine has gone to a 'safe house' perhaps with a relative and they know exactly where she is? Is it possible that this is all a scam from the very start, bearing in mind how quickly they got the world media in on it, and the company set up in Madeleine's name, money from which it appears they can also use for their own family expenses? Could it be that they know Madeleine is happy and wil be returned at a given time when they have made as much money as possible out of the whole thing, and could their tapas friends and family be sharing the booty ?
The only thing that would not bear this theory out are the forensics!
Just a thought though!
Nancy,
Me too. I always read both sites and will continue to post on both. I also read the 3 A's, I have only posted on there 3 times approx. The McCann files I also read. The McC propaganda will never be taken seriously by me.
I don't believe a word about Kate's mother blogging on to the pro's site - but if it is her, I would say the reason she is doing so is because the rest of them on their are all part of the happy family!
April fool's joke of course!!
Hi Zodiac/Wooram
Just popped back for a mo with my coffee.
Yes Wooram, you are right about the winds here in the Costa Blanca and it takes us by suprise. Heaven knows how many plant pots I have had to replace over the years.
Zodiac, I have about 30 Olive/Almond trees scattered about over the land and there are plenty of olives, but the process that you have to go through to bottle them is just too time consuming so would you believe it, I buy olives from the supermarket. Re the Pampas grass, even without any in my front farden I still seem to get couples on a regularly basis wanting to stay, it has become a holiday centre or stopover point for everybody I seem to know, lately
Zodiac - the McCann files - is that where Gerry's blog is?
Nancy,
No it is a site with a library of press articles, TV programmes etc a mine of info, if you have not seen it before and decide to look at it all, read you in few weeks!LOL!
http://www.mccannfiles.com/d55.html
I've just been on the DE site - they have stopped any comments on the story of the police questionning of the Tapas 7 - it seems to me that the article is pulled as soon as anyone starts to make opinions! What about freedom of speech which is what they are supposed to be about!!
Zodiac -
thanks for that thread - it looks as if I'll be up all night!!
What do you think about my post of 11.28 - I'd be interested in other people's opinion on that?
Well Gina I am going to be in the vicinity in May, I have your IP address and have located you it is so easy to do, I am coming for my free holiday. Olives from the supermarket are fine. Cannot wait to put a face to a name, see you in May.
Nancy when I looked at the DE site this morning there were about 48 comments, some from last night. On those comments someone said that the article was up earlier, then removed, comments deleted, then it started again with HYS. They were questioning why they keep doing this, either allow comments or do not. They thought they were just trying to test opinion, but if they have not worked that out by now they never will. Some for, some against and some sick to the back teeth with overexposure.
Zodiac, so you are coming to Spain, well look up all the laws before you come as I doubt if you break one of them you will be let off like the McCanns were in Portugal. PS. and don't start tutting when we are having a ciggie and a wine in the restaurants, we have some choices here still!!!!
It has been suggested here in an earlier post and on another forum that the PJ questions had to be agreed in advance by the Home Office.
Does this mean then that the whole interview thing will be scripted and stilted? What if a reply from one of the scripted questions warrants another question and so on? If it is the case then it suggests that perhaps the PJ are being allowed to just go through the motions. Logically the PJ should be allowed to ask any pertinent question to solve a possible crime otherwise the interviews could be just a farce IMO.
Joe it would not surprise me that if one of the questions leads to another question being asked, they would have to go through all the permission seeking saga that they had to go through to get this far. This whole thing is becoming as farse, and if it were not so sad that it is about a poor little mite, it would actually be funny
Joe -
If it's true that the questions have to be agreed in advance by the Home Office then the questionning is going to be blatantly biased in favour of the Tapas 7 in my opinion. The crime happened in Portugal so the PJ's should be given free rein to answer whatever questions they think is relevant to solving the case.
And we are supposed to be a democratic country!
Zodiac -
I went on to the McCannfiles blog and it is certainly going to take me weeks to get through all that lot! Very well laid out I think.
Regarding my theory above - they had that as one of their votes, so I'm not the only person thinking on those lines! I also saw on his latest blog Gerry says that they are still optimistic of Madeleine's safe return, so that would back up my theory!
Wooram,
The smiling like that IMO is disgusting. I also read a post from the Sky forum from a woman who was supposedly on holiday and around after the disappearance, that poster claimed they were interviewed at the Church then not long after she saw them at a shop licking ice lollies and smiling. She also gave a lot of detail of what she overheard from staff at the OC and said be prepared for our jaws to drop when we hear more! She said she could not divulge any more at this point, just to wait. Sorry I cannot remember where all this was posted, it might have been 3 A's, maybe Isis would know. As for M being kept somewhere, who knows, the smiling the way they do is bizarre. As you point out K saying 'we know the truth' it could be that or something more sinister, IMO. Surely M and the supposed abductor would only know the truth, or M and whoever is responsible, as G has said words like 'we must speculate as to the situation M finds herself in'. Their words and actions are odd. It was reported I believe on the BBC yesterday that PJ are coming to the UK on 7/4/08 to interview people and the forensics I believe were mentioned, I think it will be a long time yet before we hear anything from official sources like the PJ, although I am sure the spin will spin and spin. I will wait for PJ statements however long that takes. I am grateful I have found Viv's site her legal background and her interpretation of events thus far are very much appreciated. Also Alsabella brings news from Portugal and answers our questions with regard to PJ etc, I very much appreciate Alsabella's site and look forward to her return. Nancy I think we will just have to be patient. Zodiac x.
So sorry Nancy my 12.06pm post is for you, read so many today I do not know who I am posting I would be rubbish with multi ID's. Sorry for mixing you both up Nancy and Wooram.
Gina -
Yes it seems you have to up early and reading in the morning to get on anything regarding the McCanns these days!
What do you think about my post regarding the 'safe house for Madeleine'? do you think it is a possibility?
Thanks for all your welcomes.
Gina, I live in the Canary Islands, y'know just across the road from Portugal, lol.
What really amazes me is the attitude of the British press. I left over 30 years ago but I remember a press which was on the side of the victim (Madeleine) and innocent till proved guilty really wasn't their concern. Has it really changed so much? Thats what really made me notice...the strange behaivour of the parents and the press making them out as saints.
Sorry but my English is a bit rusty, I dont use it much these days. See you later, my coffe is over now.
Nancy, re the safe house. Well I suppose anything is possible and I had thought about that myself in the beginning as a possibility, but no, I do not think it a possibility now. Too long IMO, and why waste so much money on Metodo, they could have just left it to the missing children organisations and donated some money to them instead.
What concerns me is this questionning. If the questions have to be submitted in advance it is hindering the police. All police forces question in different ways (i.e the soft approach, the harder approach and switch officers during the process in order to get the best results). One thing they rely on is the reaction to a question which the person being questioned has no knowledge off. If this group already knows what they are going to be asked, they are prepared, so IMO it is a complete waste of time and IMO not the norm way of doing things.
Really have to go now - read you all later
Zodiac -
just read your answer and don't worry,I did used to post as Wooram and still do on other topics, but use Nancy for Madeleine forums.
thanks for your interesting answer and I agree with you that we can only wait and see what happens after the questionning is over and more is known about the forensic evidence too.
I still can't believe that parents can be that cool over a child being taken by a supposed paedophile. I would have been in a mental institution if that was my daughter, and smiling would be the last thing on my mind forever Im sure!
Hi Gina/Nancy,
One would wonder if its all a massive hoax, the behaviour, the PR and spin,
the whole thing. If its true, as I said in an earlier post the scripted questions is just plain ridiculous, unless the PJ are allowed to have follow up questions that result from the first one. I do not know, but it does not make sense to impose such restrictions, and why can the British police not also ask their own questions re the disappearance of a British subject?
Gina - thanks for your valued opinion. I suppose they could have used Metodo 3 to look for Madeleine in order to take suspicion away from their objective - but you are probably right and I;m barking up the wrong tree - but why why are the McCanns sooooo cooooool!!!!
As for the questions it is going to be a farce in my opinion because of exactly what you have said yourself!
Off my self now for a nice long walk in the sunshine - still windy though!!!
Felicity,
Gerry's smiling face is that of a happy carefree father, the opposite of the grief strick haunted face of Sarah Payne's father following her disappearance.
The child is identical to the one sitting next to Madeleine in the airport bus on 3 A's. Video clip in which a voice is heard telling Gerry 'cheer up you're on holiday'.
Nancy,
When I sent the last post to you I remembered that you explained the Wooram/Nancy names on Alsabella's site. Is the 11.16am Wooram post above from you. I agree if it were any of my children I would not be smiling like that so inappropriate and disrespectful given the circumstances. What if the supposed abductor showed these pictures in the newspapers etc to the so called abducted child!
I posted this early and there has been no comment on it. Does anyone think this is inappropriate. Surely we are here to try and protect the rights of children. I disagreed with the Mccanns choice to publicise the twins and i have to say i disagree with this.
madge said...
Viv
I'm not trying to be antagonistic here but just stating my opinion. I would like to politely ask that you remove the picture shown above. I don't think that it is fair to publish a picture that can identify a child involved in all of this. I think the child should be afforded some anonimity. No one knows whether her parents are involved in this. I suspect not but even if they are the child is an innocent in all of this.
Tuesday, 1 April 2008 07:51:00 o'clock BST
Joe/Nancy
One thing is for sure IMO is no matter what people think of the PJ and whether they acted correctly or not, they are now being hindered in following their line of enquiry and are being made fools of if they cannot ask the questions they want to ask. We are not sure if this is so, we do not really know if the questioning is as being reported, but one thing is for sure, if they are not allowed to ask whatever questions they want, in the way they want, then nobody has the right to damn them. Far better to let them following it through in their own way and form an opinion on the result. I hope if they are hindered in anyway they make it publicly known. If the PJ have screwed up let them finish off what they started and let us see the screw up, if they have not screwed up, let them do their job in their own way and let us find out the truth which is what we all want.
I cannot think the whole thing is a hoax, leaving the kids was bad enough, but to use one of your kids to become rich and famous is outrageous and I do not think anyone would expect to get away with that
Madge I did see your post earlier and to be honest I am not sure whether this picture has been published before or not. Regards whether Viv should have it on here, well my feeling is, it is her blog and her choice, and as I am a refugee from Alsa's site and not a regular poster on this one I do not feel I have the right to make any judgements. I know that has not really answered your question but it is just the way I feel about it.
Madge,
This is Viv's blog and I think what she chooses to put in it is her choice.
Do you mean the dark haired child?
I remember the little Morrocan girl plastered all over the British papers and news reports. IMO, I do not think the McC team were bothered about the inappropriate use of her picture and the effect it had on her and her family.
Gina
I see you have difficulty processing your olives.
I don't know if you have the same sort of facility in your part of Spain as in the part of France I used to live.
The local WINE co-operative used to collect weighed amounts of olives from small producers and send them in bulk to an olive oil processing plant.
The returned oil then would be allocated to the producers in proportion to the amout of olives "donated".
Also on the subject of olive trees is it against the law in Spain to cut them down?
On a neighbouring building plot to my former French home the driveway to the house has to be sineous to avoid the trees present.
Gina
I obviously respect Viv's choice to have it on here but actually i do not feel i can continue to post on here if it stays. I would feel hypocritical as i have stated that i do not agree with the Mccanns not protecting the twins identities from the start. I feel desperately sorry for them and the effect this will have on them in their lives, whatever the outcome of the investigations. The neglected children have been abandoned whilst on holiday and that was terrible but surely they have a right to try and carry on. The Paynes have not pushed themselves in the limelight. Maybe they are feeling truly remorseful for their actions, they may be trying to put things right and protecting their children from the media. I for one am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If others are not let's do it for the children.
Madge
In my opinion, there are many pics of the children released by the family, this is not even a particulary clear pic of the kids its more of the parents, it is up to Viv what pics she puts on her own blog, and she is good enough to let others post on it, that does not mean she should be told what she can and can not post. Lizzy
Zodiak
Yes and havent we condmened them for this and felt terribly sorry for the many ruined lives as a result of this media circus. Does it make it right then just because it is one of the Tapas children. Are ALL children not innocent and in need of protection. I for one most certainly did condemn the terrible intrusion into the lives of that little Morroccan girl as i have the intrusion into all lives affected by this into which we were not given an invitation.
Hello Madge,
If you look on Rosiepops' site, the quasi-official McCann family blog, you will see plenty of pictures of all the children. So presumably the family is content with images of the twins being published.
And personally, I feel the twins were more at risk by their parents:- 1. leaving them totally alone night after night in a situation where they couldn't be seen or heard, and 2. drinking vast amounts of alcohol whilst having a duty of care to their small children.
ICTOAN
Just caught your post before leaving. Yes we do have the same co-operatives here where you can take the olives but the terrain I have to climb over to pick them is just not worth the bother, think the word I am looking for is lazy. I don't know if it is against the law to cut down olive trees, I dont think so. It is against the law to cut down carob trees (chocolate trees) though. I have loads of them too and they make a mess when the pods drop. The dogs are addicted to the pods which gives them the poops, so then I get another mess. I sometimes let the old goatman in and let his goats eat them, trouble is if I don't watch them they eat everything else too. Sometimes I wished I lived in a flat (but not for long)
ZODIAC, what town are you going to for your hols in May
lgc,
Well said I think we shoud be focusing more on important things such as why the Home office have had to approve the questions the Pj are going to ask. This will mean the Mccanns and friends are possibly well prepared for any questions, advance knowledge...although I hope this is not the case. Lizzy
nancy,
Interesting DE's disallowed commenting on Tapas groups alleged interviews. Exactly the same with DE's front page 'no evidence' announcement, displayed for SEVEN consecutive days, all comments barred.
By comparison 'toothman' abductor was shown for five days and comments were allowed.
There's a clear pattern of behaviour with DE online facilities; they veto public response on certain articles ... articles barred from public reaction are ALWAYS pro McCann.
Media manipulation .....
LGC
Exactly, these poor children have been treated dreadfully. I do feel it is wrong to show their faces and i for one do not condone it anywhere. Just because one person/s do it does definitely not make it right in my book.
Bye all
Madge - Throughout this whole case my biggest gripe has been "the media circus". IMO totally unnecessary & never felt necessary by parents of other missing children. I have said from day one, the McCanns are doing this all wrong and will live to regret it. I took that back slightly when they started getting payments from newspapers. However they themselves have allowed other innocent familes to have their lives picked to pieces with all this publicity and seem to have no regard for other people's children who have been splashed across the newspapers. If their friends now see their childs picture on a blog and find it disturbing they should take it up with the McCanns not Viv IMO or better still ask themselves could we have prevented all of this by being more co-operative with the PJ long ago. I am afraid it is too late now to stop this sort of thing. Anyway enough said on the subject it is up to you to act in the way you feel and up to Viv to do what she wants-
I'm off to Iceland (not the country see you later)
Gina,
Vigo (Santiago de Compostela) it is a port of call on the cruise we are going on, been before.
Zodiac, Have done that cruise myself a few times, hope the Bay of Biscay is calm for you. I now cruise out of Barcelona, did a great cruise on Royal Caribbean last july and just looking for another one for this year. Cruising off to Iceland now!!!lol
Madge,
There are photographs all over the Public Domain. Have you seen all the photo's on the Pro sites. Why pick this photo out?
LGC, I think the pictures of Maddie and family on the other blog are beautiful.
They are at the least done correctly and not stretched to make her hardly recognisable as on our blog.
I think the one at the bottom of pages is a lovely picture made to look awful.
Sorry if I should not say, but that is my feelings.
jj
Gina,
I am only there for a day. The visit to your goodself will have to go on hold. We love cruising, Barcelona is fantastic we intend to go for a long weekend, we have been a few times through cruising, there is so much to see. BBFN.
Madge
Surely getting to the truth of what happened to Madeleine is more important than quibbling about pics of her. Her parents treatment of her when alive and well was in my opinion disgraceful and I think a few photos is hardly going to make any difference to her now,not trying to sound rude but it is not an important issue when compared to finding out what happened to the poor girl. Lizzy
Was just about to switch off so before i go. I did not pick this one out. I have never been on other sites other than Alsabella's. I felt there we were united in a common bond of fighting for what was right for the children. I do not know what is on the other sites. I cannot remember ever seeing pictures of the other children. It was the choice of the Mccanns to publicise the twins faces and i believe that was wrong. I may be wrong but i got the impression the other Tapas group were trying to protect their childens identities. Don't get me wrong they do not deserve my respect but if they are now at least trying to protect them i say thank god at last they have seen the light and i for one think this is the right decision. I in no way condone picures of these children being publicised. I believe that Social Services have asked for the twins faces to be obscured and they probably should ask that the others are too. I feel strongly about this case because i care about these children and genuinely worry about them going to school with this so highly inthe public eye. I will do my bit ( no matter what little effect this has) to try and protect these innocents. I hope these other children can fade into everyday life and having their faces publicised is no going to allow this to happen.
Anon 13.26pm.
Why are you constantly here then?
Annon - Yes I think if it was Mrs Healey which it wasn't she should have posted on this blog. If you are trying to defend your family what is the point of posting to those who see no wrong in them. Maybe she could have said something to convince us, worth a try don't you think (or perhaps you do not think, just insult)
Lizzy
No i don't agree that finding the truth is more important than sacrificing some sort of normality for the other children. I fact it is not an and or situation. Pictures of the other children are not needed to find out the truth about what happened. It is unnecessary and just something to chat about. These children never asked to be abandoned every night and for their pictures to be balzened everywhere for the sake of chat is wrong IMO.
I will definitely say bye now. the sun is shining and we are off for a walk in the woods with friends.
LGC,
Hope you are well.
Why would Mrs. Healey even try to convince this bunch? Oh, and by the way, I doubt it was Mrs. Healey too.
You, who are filled with so much bitterness and anger towards this couple? And your minds are already made up so why add fuel to the fire?
Gina, there is nothing wrong with my thinking process but it is tempered with a bit of compassion - try it.
Zodiak and other members of this blog - how come you know everything that's happening on the other blog?
And the answer to your deep question - Why am I here? Because I can be and I like to disrupt your blog - that's the answer you're looking for?
Anon 14.02pm,
What is it that I know is happening on the other blog?
Madge,
Surely finding out the truth of whatever happened on that holiday is paramount for the twins safety now?
It's an unpalatable thought, but just suppose Kate and Gerry were complicit in some way towards Madeleine's disappearance, wouldn't this have repercussions as to where the twins should reside in the future for a safe life?
I can't really see why you object to the twins pictures being shown on this site if you don't object to them on the very site which represents the views of Kate and Gerry. It would seem to be their POLICY of publishing pictures of the children, for whatever reason.
Plainly, because there are images of the twins on that family-sanctioned site, Viv is not doing something that the McCanns themselves are not doing.
I would respectfully suggest that, since it clearly upsets you, you write to the McCanns on the Madeleine McCann - Justice For ALL the Family site, and point out the error of their ways.
After all, protecting their children isn't exactly their strong point...
Hello Zodiac,
Yes thanks, I'm feeling fine!
How are you?
Dillie - for when you're around,
Thanks for the flying penguins link! I hadn't seen it before. How wonderful is that?
However, Opus saw it and thought how primitive; he like to travel first class with a caseful of Hope's herring crispie cakes as his hand luggage (he's drawn my attention many times to the fact that penguins tend not to have pockets. As if it's my fault).
Here's a link for you:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=552788&in_page_id=1770
Scroll to the bottom of the page and look at a very handsome penguin taking some exercise (although his neckwear is not to my penguin's taste...)
:)
X
LGC,
I am well also. Thank you.
Cannot understand the objection to the above photo being shown. There are a plethora of photo's in the public domain.
I do not buy into the photos of the McCanns with their children plastered all over Rosiepops and friends site. To me it is like sugar coated promotion of the wonderful family the McCanns are doting on their children when the reality is possibly that they were neglectful parents and it does not wash. It is contrived and appears staged and to use an Americanism phoney. I am a parent myself and I would not want pictures of my children plastered over the net, so I feel cynical that the McCanns appear to condone these pictures on the likes of the Pro blogs, unless its to portray a positive image, then anybody can be used even their children. If, they are found to be involved in this case then these pictures will be seen as tasteless.
Zodiac,
Glad you're well, too!
I think sometimes people hone in on one small thing which channels the rest of their feelings about something they feel strongly about.
Odd, though, isn't it?
Did you see the school picture of kids on the internet the other day which had blobs over all their faces?! And many schools will now not allow parents to video the school play...soon conceiving children will be against the law in order to protect them.
What on earth happened to common sense??
Joe,
I quite agree with you - the McCanns are using the happy family photos with the twins for PR purposes. This turns the children into commodities to be manipulated towards a certain end.
Extraordinary, isn't it?
But then, are we surprised?!
Afternoon All - Just popping in briefly
Joe, you say RP's site looks staged. It no doubt could be argued if staging has worked once why not continue with the same strategy.
Just a thought.
Felicity,
In almost identical cases, Sarah, Holly & Jessica, the prime suspects were interviewed and released. Police needed to re-question both following DNA results and in Huntley's case, mobile phone tracking results.
As I understand it, these suspects had no legal right not to attend re-questioning, but had the right to remain silent - the Police in both cases had the right to arrest the prime suspects if they refused to co-operate - two choices, go quietly under police escort to the Station, or be taken under arrest. No choice and no legal entitlements to the contrary.
I also understand that lack of co-operation, as you explained with Shipman, is highly detrimental when brought to Court's notice.
Kate's attitude, lack of co-operation with Police questioning was same as Shipman's in that she reportedly, refused to answer many questions. Leicester Police monitored PJ's interview during which FSS results and other evidence was presented.
Police announced on 5 September (TV and press) that suspects would be arrested within two days.
Against the intentions of two Police forces and their announcement, Kate was not arrested or detained.
Police stated seven months ago that they needed Kate's answers to (reportedly) 40 questions; seizure and examination of possessions, computer, diary and cuddle cat.
PJ have not been given evidence requested for examination; McCanns lack of co-operation in first interview has not resulted in re-interview by legal enforcement. Suspects in parallel cases had no such option.
The Police need to re-question Kate; on the basis of unanswered questions last September and on reported new evidence found since that time. At this juncture in Sarah & Sohom cases prime suspects were TAKEN and re-questioned.
It seems procedures applicable in parallel cases are not being enforced in McCanns case.
Do the McCanns have a legal right to refuse to be re-interviewed ?
Why has critical evidence, McCanns' possessions been withheld from PJ's examination for seven months ?
McCanns are reportedly NOT meeting the Police for second gruelling lengthy questioning.
All questions to be presented to Tapas group have been scrutinized and subjected to prior Home Office approval. CM left Home Office to run McCanns defence by media campaign.
Legal procedures applicable in Sarah & Sohom case are not being applied in the McCanns case.
It was announced
At this stage in Sarah's & Sohom case, the Police had the legal right toprime suspects were Police were prevented from
littlegreycell & Opus,
How are you ? Hope your diet's improved ... no more braised carpet and the like !!!
Good morning all,
you April FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
joe,
I agree, but the game plan all along has been manipulating public opinion against the Police and evidence. It's a mixture of soft soap, coupled with threat and menace. I've lost count of how many Police supporters in this case have been threatened with libel !
The behaviour in this case doesn't sit too well beside the charming, caring family image does it ?? !!
Hello 2345,
We're fine, thanks! Opus was never into the braised carpet thing, luckily, but I'm still working my way through Carpet Warehouse...I have a 'procedure' on Thursday which will hopefully tell me I can progress to linoleum.
How are you?
Have you seen the Pets Page lately?
Hello everyone.
Well, does anyone know who is the little girl?
The McCann's can be charged with child neglet. The Portuguese law applies to them.
Its like someone going to the UK, commits any crime and can be charged by the British authorities.
The PJ can order the McCann's back to Portugal any time.
If they refuse to return, arrest warrants will be issued, which are executed quite fast within the EU.
Hello ALL
Zodiac I am glad the word Farden has been put to good use I hope Gina has better luck at the farden centre than I did :o)
LGC how are you feeling???
xxx
Hello Viv and everyone here,
Now i am realy realy concern ,why can not understand how could this happen?!!what do you think ?
http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/
L’affaire McCann : succès des interrogatoires compromis
Secret n’a pas été respecté
L’objectif visé par la police portugaise avec l’interrogatoire de plusieurs témoins sur le sol britannique, connus dans l’affaire McCann comme les "tapas 7", serait gravement compromis par la divulgation du contenu des lettres rogatoires et d’une partie de la version anglaise du dossier.
The case McCann: successful interrogations compromise
Secret was not respected
The goal by Portuguese police with the questioning of several witnesses on British soil, in the case known as the McCann Tapas 7 ", would be seriously compromised by the disclosure of the contents of the rogatory letters and part of The English version of the dossier.
in the previous post is I not Why , sorry :)
Hiya all
Interesting read as ever.
Looks like I am going to have to say it again, it is the PORTUGUESE PROSECUTOR who has decided the McCanns should not be re-questioned again at this time. His reason is a simple one, they would exercise their right to silence and so there is no point. The McCanns had their opportunity to explain the evidence against them back in Portugal and chose to be unhelpful. That is a benefit to the prosecution and they do not need to give them a second bite of the cherry.
As regards the rogatory letters. These were necessary because these witnesses are here under our jurisdiction and the Portuguese Police need the full co-operation of our own police, which they have always had from the outset to properly investigate this case. It may be that our own methods of interviewing witnesses would be very helpful to the Portuguese. For example in serious cases, particularly concerning a child, they can be video taped. There are also other powerfully good reasons for English speaking people to be interviewed by English speaking police officers! Police officers have to think very quickly when interviewing a witness or a suspect and respond and re-phrase questions depending upon the response they receive. If you have a lengthy and cumbersome procedure where answers and questions have to keep being translated, with all the risk of mistranslation, the spontaneity of the interview can be completely damaged and the success it may therefore achieve.
I wish to state quite categorically that the Portuguese Judge and Prosecutor will have spent countless hours considering the evidence in this case and very carefully framed the questions they wish to be asked of the witnesses. The Home Office originally, back in January had an issue about the legal form of the request and the fact it was forwarded via Eurojust. In no way would they have been seeking to change the nature of the questions themselves. The Portuguese are the lead agency in this enquiry.
I would also like to state quite categorically, those questions would be highly confidential as between the Home Office and Leicester Police and there is absolutely no chance the witnesses or the McCanns have been given the slightest clue as to their content. This would be a fundamental breach of trust and confidentiality rules applicable in a proper criminal investigation and would land us in serious trouble on a European level.
It is also important to remember that UK also have jurisdiction to prosecute the McCanns for the offences they are being investigated for. As such our own police have the right to also make enquiries as they clearly have been doing and to ask the witnesses supplemental questions as the interview progresses and I have no doubt that they will. WE should always remember there has been a team of 30 British Police officers working on this case for several months now. They have not been sitting on their hands!
AS far as the photo is concerned. This is on the worldwide web and if the parents of that child did not want her to be then they would not have allowed her to be carried about by the McCanns with the press in tow! The McCanns have positively encouraged the media, did daily walks around PDL for them, posed as they went to church and have themselves put hundreds of videos and pictures into the public domain of their children. It is not up to me to seek to police this!
Viv x
I don`t know if this is a April fool joke, i hope it is ...
venice,
Your post serves to confirm the unprecedented influences against PJ in this case. They were prevented from arresting McCanns seven months ago. British Police have clearly been prevented from normal seizure of critical evidence PJ requested seven months ago.
The protection afforded to the McCanns seems to have absolutely no bounds - quite extraordinary.
In normal cases, those where prime suspects in their child's death and disappearance, do not have a media spokesman with direct Government/BBC/media contact, arrests, as you rightly say, would have been made months ago.
The word 'death' is fully substantiated by archived evidence released by Leicester Police. Must be unique to be threatened for libel for citing evidenced Police information.
The McCanns have clearly been given complete protection throughout the unnecessarily protracted case. PJ are probably being pushed 'out of time' - STILL haven't been given critical evidence - McCann possessions.
Felicity,
I hope your faith is justified ... the report appeared in Horas 24, most unreliable source of information according to Alsabella.
Hiya 2345
Kate McCann herself acknowledged last September that the police may arrest her.
What I would like you to try and understand is that the longer an investigation goes on BEFORE a suspect is charged then the better the police case is going to be. This was always going to be a difficult case because the police did not have the vital piece of evidence - the body. Serious and complex homicide investigations where you have such difficult and evasive suspects always take around a year or often much longer still. This is in pursuit of obtaining the best possible evidence. If they put less than ideal evidence before the court they are going to lose altogether and generally once someone has been acquitted you cannot put them on trial again.
We also need to remember that in Portuguese law, no charges can be made until all the evidence in the case is available. The charge comes at the very end of that process.
You seem extremely impatient but the reality is that if the McCanns had been charged last September, as you obviously wish that they were, then they may well have lost the case. It needed a great deal more investigation and this is still ongoing. WE need patience to get justice. Please show some.
Kind Regards
Viv x
Hello Hope!
I'm feeling very well, thanks. Have lost quite a bit of weight, too, so let's look on the bright side...had a few naughty chocolate sprinkles on some goats yoghurt last night; my first treat for nearly three weeks!
Not missing alcohol in the slightest; I sit and quaff your lovely maple syrup concoction in the evenings.
How are you? Have you started your week of The Drink? Are you feeling hungry? Any chocolate withdrawl symptoms?
the full article
http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/
"L’information est avancée par une source du Leicestershire Constabulary et confirmée par une copie du document à que SOS Madeleine à pu avoir accès. Selon la même source, le contenu des lettres rogatoires et une partie du dossier aurait été copié et envoyé à un ancien officier de la police, actuellement dans le secteur privé, proche d’un témoin et intéressé dans le déroulement des investigations.
Après quelques mois d’attente, mis à profit par les témoins pour préparer les prochains interrogatoires, la Police Judiciaire est sensé voyager vers le Royaume-Uni pendant le mois d’avril afin de poursuivre son enquête à la disparition de Madeleine McCann.
Plusieurs témoins, et pas des moindres, ont reçu, de la part d’avocats et d’anciens officiers de la police britannique, des consignes et informations de comment faire face aux questions préparés par l’équipe de Paulo Rebelo"
"The information is put forward by a source of Leicestershire Constabulary and confirmed by a copy of the document that SOS Madeleine was able to gain access. According to the same source, the content of the letters rogatory and parts of the dossier had been copied and sent to a former police officer, now in the private sector, close to a witness and interested in the progress of investigations.
After a few months of waiting, used by witnesses to prepare for the next interrogation, the Judicial Police is supposed to travel to the United Kingdom during the month of April in order to continue its investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Several witnesses, and not least, have received from lawyers and former officers of the British police, and information on how to deal with questions prepared by Paulo Rebelo team"
ana,
Hogan International ???
Many of the posters here will remember "Baby Grace" the little girl whose body at one time was thought to be Madeleine.
I wondered what had happened to the case and did some Googling. This is the latest report I have found from the Galveston Daily News. I remember that many of you expressed a sympathetic concern over this poor child's fate.
Note the charges that have been brought.
"Island named in honor of Riley Ann Sawyers
By Sara McDonald
The Daily News
Published March 19, 2008
HITCHCOCK — The small island where a fisherman found the remains of 2-year-old Riley Ann Sawyers last year was named after her during Hitchcock’s City Commission meeting Tuesday night.
Sawyers, who for weeks was known only as “Baby Grace,” was found inside a plastic storage container on the shore of a small island Oct. 29.
A forensic artist drew a picture of what the girl may have looked like and the drawing was broadcast and printed internationally as Galveston County Sheriff’s Office investigators tried to find out her identity.
DNA tests results eventually confirmed “Baby Grace” was Sawyers, a Spring girl originally from Ohio.
Sawyers’ mother, Kimberly Dawn Trenor, and her stepfather, Royce Clyde Zeigler III, have been in Galveston County Jail since November on capital murder charges.
The island is now named “Riley’s Island” in honor of Sawyers."
Hiya Ana
I do not believe that report but if someone has illegally copied the contents of the letters rogatory and allowed it to the get into the wrong hands they can expect several years in jail for their trouble!
Viv x
I.ve just noticed that Alsabella's site has been partially restored.
ICTOAN,
Thanks a lot for that. It does demonstrate that where the police have the vital evidence, ie the child's body, charges can usually quickly follow.
Similarly in Shannon's case, her abductor was caught with her red-handed and was therefore almost immediately charged.
In the McCann case as Gerry himself stated:
WELL FIND THE BODY AND PROVE WE KILLED HER
That was more than enough for me, thanks Gerry... I gues he had been studying his police criminal law and evidence manual the Portuguese and British Police found in his rented villa in August..More difficult to prove Gerry that is true, but certainly not impossible, even without your daughter's body.
I do hope he checks my blog:-)
Hi Viv,
Just got back and read Ana's report and was about to ask what this actually means. I guess we will never know whether any of these statements from sauces (H.P or Heinz) are correct or not. Like you said early patience is all that is left now
Hiya ICTOAN
I just had a look.. all her posts are back but not the comments. I wonder is she is in the process of putting those back too and allowing people to start posting again? I dont know.
If she does I guess I wont get a staggering 700 or so posts again!
Viv x
Hiya Viv,
i do not want to believe that report either, but if this report is true and not a fool’s April joke ,i don’t know where this will end...
Duarte Levy is a good journalist and he says that sosmaddie has a copy of the documents contend...
I don’t want to believe him, but in the same time i know he is a serious professional...
Hiya Gina
Well it is April Fool's Day. The prospects of someone getting access to these and handing them over to the McCanns does seem just a tad bizarre, not to mention the prison he would get for his trouble!
One of the more silly ones, I think but great news for conspiracy theorists!
Viv x
Ana if what Duarte Levy says is true, then surely he should try and do something about it now, and prove it before it is too late
Viv I did not realise it has been posted today - enough said!!
Hiya Ana
Did Duarte Levy write this? It does not say on what you posted, do you have a link to the original I can read?
It is an extremely serious allegation to make!
Thanks
Viv x
Gina ,
My opinion exactly
I'm off for a bit now. (Bit of carpet, that is).
:)
Viv,
http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/
Felicity,
I do not expect the Prosecutor will have taken any action prejudicial to the dossier of evidence he has undoubtedly examined.
It's fair to say the Prosecutor will not compromise a vastly time consuming multi million euro case. He will definitely not compromise PJ's dossier of evidence to appease or pardon prime suspects.
IF there was no case to answer the Prosecutor would have instructed PJ to halt the investigation months ago.
Media manipulation has been the prime factor in McCanns defence, their chosen route.
Hiya LGC
Maybe you could ring the changes and have a nice bit of toasted laminate (no butter).
Great to hear from you as ever darling x
By the way do you think there is a little irony going re the suggestion McCanns and their pals have access to the questions..wishful thinking I reckon, but even if they did, questions, questions, no answers!
Viv x
Do other nationalities besides the British play April Fool Jokes??
Hope for Truth -
Just who is that handsome guy in your avatar? Sorry for being nosey?
Hi ICantThinkOfAName,
"Do other nationalities besides the British play April Fool Jokes??"
yes they play , but this is a serious issue to play with ,i supose...
hello
icantthinkofaname:
I shouldn't think so but then we Brits are so conditioned to the jokers in our government,it's second nature for us to be fooled!!
Hi Vit - Home Office and questions.
My thoughts exactly, I was saying earlier to my other half exactly what you have just said! If they do though there's no way we'll ever find out about it unfortunately, unless there's a spy in the camp who will talk for money!!!
I feel very sorry but... this investigation was damaged since the very beginning by political interferencies. I feel very sceptical.. with all the delays britishs caused in rogatory letters ... i'm affraide mc team knows in avance all the quetions and had a meeting to prepare answers IMO
Sorry Viv - misspelled your name!!!
*questions
anonymous -
You've hit the nail right on the head my friend!
Hiya Nancy
Calling me Vit LOL, a timely reminder I need some vitamins!
I do not see there are any serious delays re the rogatory letters. The process was started in January. In terms of such a complex matter involving two jurisdictions the execution of that request three months later sounds pretty good to me.
Maybe I am just accustomed to knowing the wheels of justice do not move that quick!
Felicity,
It's not irony, the fact is the questions prepared for presentation to the Tapas group only were subject to Home Office approval. The process took 4 -5 months from PJ's first submission.
Another fact is that CM left the Home Office to run McCanns media campaign after they fled Portugal. I say fled because all reports on google confirm the Police were focussed on arrest on receipt of FSS results amongst other factors.
I understand the McCanns are not meeting PJ for requestioning. It is not known whether Rogatory Letters despatched by PJ many months ago included McCanns unanswered outstanding questions, and/or others based on new evidence.
Rogatory Letters were applicable only to the Tapas group.
i'm writing as anonymous cause i can't connect with my google account. I'm portuguese "mandarinn" from estoril.
Moita Flores a respected ex PJ , said in TV several times that rogatory letters are not that complex thing and use to easy and
use to be fast
mandarinn
Hiya I do think the investigation was damaged in the early stages by the McCanns friends leading the police up the garden path and focussing on Mr Murat. However I also think the PJ were nevertheless focussing on the McCanns too. In the early stages of such an investigation the police would not be limiting themselves to just one hypothesis.
I would like to mention another behaviour of Gerry McCann that seriously rang alarm bells for me, here.
When questioned by the attractive female foreign journalist, and do you know Robert Murat. Furious turning the head to one side in disgust, spitting out I am not going to comment upon that, and having been quite willing to stand there answering questions with Kate then dragged her off.
Now why I ask myself could he not answer that question and why did it make him so angry? Because as I have always thought he did know Mr Murat and the poor man was being set up as the perfect Patsy.
Very wicked behaviour and if I was Mr Murat I would be very angry and wanting pay back for that!
Mandarin when you post write you name where it says name/url. ignore the url bit and just then do the same as you do for anonymous. Your name will come on your post then and we will not muddle you up with all the annons.
Welcome anyway, any new news from Portugal
Gina, thank you.
VIV
I allways felt odd that.. if murat knew the group before, he didn't tell. On the other hand, IF murat is in some way to the mccans... why he didn't defend himself?
Sorry my bad english .
*in some way related
Hello Mandarin
Great to have you on board with the Portuguese perspective.
Of the people you know could you give us an indication of what people think? That would be really interesting as the Portuguese know their own system and probably have a different perspective than we could. The media reporting has also been more factual and honest, without bias.
I have always been very pleased to be able to discuss with Portuguese posters because they can be so informative, e.g. Alsabella and Claudia from the DE days. Obviously McCann apologists do not like that one bit and have been very unpleasant to them. You will certainly not get that rude and abusive treatment here!
Viv x
I agree that the wheels of justice turn slowly, but one cannot feel but a little bit apprehensive that perhaps any PJ questioning via the Leicestershire Police is clearly hampered or compromised. Mitchell has IMO had carte blanche to date over much of the direction of this case, not necessarily of his own volition but as the spokesperson. It is possible that even now that the interviews will be stage- managed and possibly little will be gained, bar a spectacular admission or revelation from the Tapas, whom may be well rehearsed in answering the likely questions.
Gina in Portugal respected newspapers don't publish news about this case cause it it is in justice secret
It was said PJ will flow to UK 7th april, but it is not new. IMO Correio da manhã is not one of our good newspapers as are : PUBLICO: DIARIO DE NOTICIAS; JORNAL DE NOTICIAS....
Hiya Mandadarin
My impression of Mr Murat is that he is a Portuguese resident, has a Portuguese lawyer and has listened to his advice and never underestimated the seriousness of his position as an arguido. AT that stage of course Kate and Gerry were not and offered many comments save when it suited them to refuse to answer. Murat did not do this, he just behaved sensibly and never said anything at all. He has kept silent throughout. For his dignity he will always have my utmost respect.
Viv x
2345,
Sorry ,only saw your post now.
I don`t know what Hogan International is , can you tell me, please ?
Nice try pro's .. trying to make us think that Madeleine's "granny" has sanctioned your blog!
It really does make you look desperate, and what's more, as the people on THIS blog so obviously despise the McCann/Healy family and their attitude toward Madeleine's disappearance, what makes you think we'd give a damn even if Mrs Healy really DID sanction your bloody website?? We (and I think I speak for everyone here) put no weight on the words of cretins, so it wouldn't make a jot of difference to any of us either way!
Hi Bianca, now say what you mean hun, don't hold back :-)
Gina -
you are right about Mrs Healy - if she was on that site she would just be preaching to the converted!! Why don't we try to poach her??
Oh and HOPE4TRUTH, an apology for the other night referring to you as "Hope4You". There was another anti at the DE that was on for quite some time by that name, so I guess that's why I keep getting you mixed up!
Sorry hun!
Zodiac - Viv, everyone!
sorry for the wrong name in my first article this morning - should have been Nancy of course - that's the trouble with having split personalities !!!
VIV thank,my pleasure to be here in your site.
According the people i know and the comments i read at newspapers, portuguese had as it happened with myself objection in acept the parents could be involved even thought thinking their behaviour very weird.
People feel very offended about the treats that british newspapers did against my country, our institutions jjj over all PJ.
Istaterted to enter on UK newspapers and to read DX comments since septenber and i was horrified about what was said there mainly mandaz and rosy.
I feel very happy when Alsabella, claudia, athena and the others apear cause i think they represent well our country.
Poruguese are a king people we use to be nice with foreighneir and it is not bcs of tourism... and we love children
Sorry if it is a bit confuse but.. english language is not my cup of tea
@ 2345
Thank you for the response.
They have been protected, but this kind of protection doesn't do much for the Justice system.
What will the PM do when they are charged?
I believe they will be charged in the end.
I can sense the McCann worry.
Hey Gina! I sure will :-)
But you know, especially after the despicable things said on Supertroll's site the other day, I really have no impetus to hold back from telling these people what I really think of them!
Cretins!
Related to the end of this case the mood here is pessimistic bcs of polical interferences..
Nancy there are a lot of people I would like to roast, long before poaching Mrs. Healey.
If I was Mrs Healey I would not be preaching to the converted I would be putting a few valid points to anybody that I considered were doing my family an injustice and I would not be doing that on blog either
Post a Comment