Did anyone see this man hanging around, after about 10.30 pm in PDL on 3 May, if so be sure to telephone the McCanns hotline and let them know, but please do not waste police time doing so, his name is David Payne and the police actually know he was there. 
I thought this article was a very good recap back to September as are the others on the links. In one of them I read that on return home the McCanns got a very important visitor, not Det Sup Prior the one who is co-ordinating the investigation in UK, but his boss a Detective Chief Superintendent, in the UK these guys only investigate the most serious crimes and for such a high ranking officer to immediately visit them at home speaks volumes IMO.
Madeleine McCann: The vanishing, the mystery, and the accusations
Judge given evidence in McCann case as prosecutor raises stakes
Madeleine McCann: Request for tourists' DNA after possible evidence of kidnapping uncovered
Madeleine McCann inquiry almost over, says Portuguese minister
Scapegoats? McCanns reject 'compelling' new police evidence
McCanns are 'emotionally exhausted'
Police plan further action in Madeleine McCann inquiry
The McCanns return to Britain
Portuguese media clamour for conviction
Kate McCann: From anguished parent, to grieving mother, to suspect
Viewpoint: McCanns' shattering plight
Melanie McDonagh: Kate McCann is being tried in the court of celebrity
'Portuguese police framed my wife'
What really happened on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared? And during the days that followed?
Monday, September 10, 2007
David Randall separates the facts from the theories
The investigation has been beset by conflicting detail since the outset, in large part because of Portuguese law preventing the police and witnesses discussing details of the case.
Into the vacuum has come speculation. One suggestion yesterday was that there had been deliberate leaks to the Portuguese press in an attempt to force a reaction from the McCanns, with investigating detectives aware that, in the vast majority of cases like this, the parents are involved.
The day of 3 May
It was the day before the family – Gerry, Kate, Madeleine, three, and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie – were due to return to Rothley in Leicestershire. Kate McCann said later that Madeleine called it "her best day ever". There are conflicting reports over the last confirmed sighting of Madeleine outside. One report yesterday suggested it was as early as 2.30pm. Another report said that no one has emerged publicly to say that they saw her after 6pm. Yet another said police were focusing on the time after 8pm. There are also conflicting reports over what the couple did. One report said they spent several hours together resting in the apartment. Another that Gerry McCann went to play tennis at 6.30pm.
Bedtime
Every night, say the McCanns, they would put the children down at 7pm-7.30pm, and at an unknown time leave them sleeping in the apartment. At 8.30pm on 3 May, they arrived for a meal at a nearby tapas bar with their friends. They chose not to use the resort's crèche or a babysitter. The apartment's French windows are believed to have been unlocked. There have been unsubstantiated suggestions that the McCanns sedated Madeleine, who was sometimes difficult at bedtime, and allegations that a syringe was found in the apartment. The family deny that. They say there was a dropper, used to give medicine to kids, and agree they sometimes gave the mild infant painkiller Calpol to the children. Reports, never denied, that the McCanns' younger children did not wake in all the commotion after the raising of the alarm has fed suspicions that they might have been sedated. One piece of circumstantial evidence is the claim of a barman in Lagos, five miles away, that he saw the McCanns in the town one night without their children. The McCanns deny this.
The tapas bar
This is about 70 yards from the apartment, further than the 40 yards claimed by the McCanns' relatives in the early days of the disappearance. The apartment's French windows may have been visible from the tapas bar, a crying child in the flat would have been out of earshot. The McCanns arrived at the bar at 8.30pm, earlier according to some reports, and there were seven others in their party: Russell O'Brien and his wife, Jane Tanner, who have two young children; Matthew Oldfield, a doctor, and his wife, Rachael; Dr Fiona Payne and her husband, David, a senior research fellow at University of Leicester; and Mrs Payne's mother, Dianne Webster. One report in Portugal suggested the group got through 14 bottles of wine. The party says it was no more than three shared by nine adults.
Checks on the children
Gerry McCann was the first parent to check on the children, at 9pm. Matthew Oldfield listened outside at about 9.30pm. Jane Tanner, late leaving her apartment for dinner because one of her children was ill, said she saw a man carrying a child in his arms in the vicinity of the McCann apartment at 9.15pm, but thought nothing of it at the time. Gerry McCann returned to the restaurant at 9.25pm, having stopped to talk to an acquaintance, who confirmed this. A woman in a nearby apartment said that she had heard Madeleine crying for her parents for long periods, but she was unable to say on which nights. The next person to check the children was Kate McCann, at 10pm. She found Madeleine missing and ran back to the tapas bar, screaming, according to Gerry McCann's sister Trish Cameron, "They've taken her! They've taken her!" The odd use of the plural pronoun, if accurately reported, has raised eyebrows, and has not been explained away. Police also want to know why she assumed Madeleine had been abducted rather than wandered off.
The crime scene
The McCanns believed the ground-floor apartment had been broken into. There were suggestions that a shutter on a window had been forced. The Mark Warner holiday group said there was no sign of a forced break-in. Madeleine was reportedly holding her favourite soft toy, her "cuddle cat", when she was sleeping. But it was found on a ledge beyond her reach, suggesting she had been abducted by an adult.
Raising the alarm
The McCanns said that the alarm was raised with the resort manager within 10 minutes. But a spokesman at Guarda Nacional Republicana headquarters said the first call to police was patched through to the GNR precinct at Lagos at 10.50pm. Two GNR officers went to the Ocean club and called CID HQ in Portimao just after 11pm. They assembled a team that was on the scene by 11.50pm. Another report said yesterday that a neighbour offered to call the police but Kate insisted she had already rung – then waited 40 minutes before making the first call. The McCanns reject this.
The first suspect
In a story that has consisted of unknowns and speculation, it is appropriate that it was a British tabloid reporter was first to draw the attention of police to Robert Murat, an expatriate Briton living 100 yards from the McCanns' apartment, in his mother's home. He had been involved in the search, had helped several reporters, and acted as a police interpreter. He was taken for questioning on 14 May, and on the following day was made an official suspect or arguido, as the somewhat contorted Portuguese legal procedures call it. Weeks of speculation, the digging up of his mother's garden, and more questioning followed before police lost interest in him.
The investigation
The lack of a swift and comprehensive search, and immediate sealing-off of the area, plus the failure to secure the scene, has been a problem. What in any jurisdiction would be a very difficult case was clouded by the inexperience of the Portuguese police, especially when local laws and customs of releasing little or no information were confronted by the 24-hour appetite of the rolling news industry. The tsunami of publicity, may have created some of the many red-herring sightings of Madeleine that have bedevilled the hunt. And, until the past few days, police have had virtually no concrete evidence to go on. What changed that was the belated forensics.
The forensics
Portuguese sniffer dogs had failed to find anything of significance, as far as we know, but British dogs – one a specialist in detecting traces of blood and body fluids, the other in detecting the scent of dead bodies – found material in a car that the McCanns rented. Samples were then sent to the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham, where, over several weeks, they were analysed. Traces of Madeleine's blood or body fluid – it is not known which – were found in the car being used by the McCanns, say their family. Unconfirmed reports say traces were found in the boot and on the key fob. What created an immediate sensation was that the the Renault Scenic was rented by the McCanns 25 days after their daughter disappeared.
The Renault Scenic
The McCanns did not have a car in Portugal before they rented this one. The police want to know why it was rented at that time, especially since it was the day before the couple left to go and see the Pope. They did not use it to go to the airport, but were driven there by an aide. The McCanns say they needed it to ferry friends and family about. They said they had ordered the car some time before and the day before the Rome trip was simply when it could be supplied. This car was – astonishingly – still being used by the McCanns last week.
The theories
* If the traces of Madeleine's body fluid or blood found in the car are proved to have come from direct contact with her body, then either she – dead or alive – must have been in that car, or something that was in direct contact with her body has been in that car.
* If the traces could have been left by indirect, or historic contact with Madeleine, then a more prosaic explanation will suffice.
* If the McCanns are telling the truth, then their daughter must either have left the apartment on her own between 9.05pm and 10pm or been taken by one or more abductors between these hours.
* If the McCanns have lied about the early evening, ghastly possibilities open up, including – at the extreme – the involvement of one or both of the parents in Madeleine's disappearance, and possible death. If that were the case, they would have to have been capable – throughout their appeals and the months-long search for their daughter – of a level of callous chutzpah unequalled in the history of crime.
Media onslaught
The news that Kate and Gerry McCann are suspects in the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine is a bittersweet moment for the Portuguese newspapers that have spent several weeks reporting a series of allegations against the couple.
Yesterday's 'Diario de Noticias' revealed that Kate McCann will not be allowed to leave Portugal until the investigation is complete, and that a relative has admitted that Madeleine may have been given medicine on the night she vanished.
Kate and Gerry McCann have endured increasingly hostile treatment by the Portuguese media in recent weeks, amid lurid allegations against them and their friends. These have ranged from claims about their "swinging" sex life, to alleged heavy drinking – and their choice of holiday companions.
Barely a week ago it emerged that the McCanns are launching a libel action against a Portuguese newspaper over reports stating police believed they had killed their daughter.
Jonathan Owen
Madeleine McCann: The vanishing, the mystery, and the accusations
Judge given evidence in McCann case as prosecutor raises stakes
Madeleine McCann: Request for tourists' DNA after possible evidence of kidnapping uncovered
Madeleine McCann inquiry almost over, says Portuguese minister
Scapegoats? McCanns reject 'compelling' new police evidence
McCanns are 'emotionally exhausted'
Police plan further action in Madeleine McCann inquiry
The McCanns return to Britain
Portuguese media clamour for conviction
Kate McCann: From anguished parent, to grieving mother, to suspect
Viewpoint: McCanns' shattering plight
Melanie McDonagh: Kate McCann is being tried in the court of celebrity
'Portuguese police framed my wife'
What really happened on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared? And during the days that followed?
Monday, September 10, 2007
David Randall separates the facts from the theories
The investigation has been beset by conflicting detail since the outset, in large part because of Portuguese law preventing the police and witnesses discussing details of the case.
Into the vacuum has come speculation. One suggestion yesterday was that there had been deliberate leaks to the Portuguese press in an attempt to force a reaction from the McCanns, with investigating detectives aware that, in the vast majority of cases like this, the parents are involved.
The day of 3 May
It was the day before the family – Gerry, Kate, Madeleine, three, and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie – were due to return to Rothley in Leicestershire. Kate McCann said later that Madeleine called it "her best day ever". There are conflicting reports over the last confirmed sighting of Madeleine outside. One report yesterday suggested it was as early as 2.30pm. Another report said that no one has emerged publicly to say that they saw her after 6pm. Yet another said police were focusing on the time after 8pm. There are also conflicting reports over what the couple did. One report said they spent several hours together resting in the apartment. Another that Gerry McCann went to play tennis at 6.30pm.
Bedtime
Every night, say the McCanns, they would put the children down at 7pm-7.30pm, and at an unknown time leave them sleeping in the apartment. At 8.30pm on 3 May, they arrived for a meal at a nearby tapas bar with their friends. They chose not to use the resort's crèche or a babysitter. The apartment's French windows are believed to have been unlocked. There have been unsubstantiated suggestions that the McCanns sedated Madeleine, who was sometimes difficult at bedtime, and allegations that a syringe was found in the apartment. The family deny that. They say there was a dropper, used to give medicine to kids, and agree they sometimes gave the mild infant painkiller Calpol to the children. Reports, never denied, that the McCanns' younger children did not wake in all the commotion after the raising of the alarm has fed suspicions that they might have been sedated. One piece of circumstantial evidence is the claim of a barman in Lagos, five miles away, that he saw the McCanns in the town one night without their children. The McCanns deny this.
The tapas bar
This is about 70 yards from the apartment, further than the 40 yards claimed by the McCanns' relatives in the early days of the disappearance. The apartment's French windows may have been visible from the tapas bar, a crying child in the flat would have been out of earshot. The McCanns arrived at the bar at 8.30pm, earlier according to some reports, and there were seven others in their party: Russell O'Brien and his wife, Jane Tanner, who have two young children; Matthew Oldfield, a doctor, and his wife, Rachael; Dr Fiona Payne and her husband, David, a senior research fellow at University of Leicester; and Mrs Payne's mother, Dianne Webster. One report in Portugal suggested the group got through 14 bottles of wine. The party says it was no more than three shared by nine adults.
Checks on the children
Gerry McCann was the first parent to check on the children, at 9pm. Matthew Oldfield listened outside at about 9.30pm. Jane Tanner, late leaving her apartment for dinner because one of her children was ill, said she saw a man carrying a child in his arms in the vicinity of the McCann apartment at 9.15pm, but thought nothing of it at the time. Gerry McCann returned to the restaurant at 9.25pm, having stopped to talk to an acquaintance, who confirmed this. A woman in a nearby apartment said that she had heard Madeleine crying for her parents for long periods, but she was unable to say on which nights. The next person to check the children was Kate McCann, at 10pm. She found Madeleine missing and ran back to the tapas bar, screaming, according to Gerry McCann's sister Trish Cameron, "They've taken her! They've taken her!" The odd use of the plural pronoun, if accurately reported, has raised eyebrows, and has not been explained away. Police also want to know why she assumed Madeleine had been abducted rather than wandered off.
The crime scene
The McCanns believed the ground-floor apartment had been broken into. There were suggestions that a shutter on a window had been forced. The Mark Warner holiday group said there was no sign of a forced break-in. Madeleine was reportedly holding her favourite soft toy, her "cuddle cat", when she was sleeping. But it was found on a ledge beyond her reach, suggesting she had been abducted by an adult.
Raising the alarm
The McCanns said that the alarm was raised with the resort manager within 10 minutes. But a spokesman at Guarda Nacional Republicana headquarters said the first call to police was patched through to the GNR precinct at Lagos at 10.50pm. Two GNR officers went to the Ocean club and called CID HQ in Portimao just after 11pm. They assembled a team that was on the scene by 11.50pm. Another report said yesterday that a neighbour offered to call the police but Kate insisted she had already rung – then waited 40 minutes before making the first call. The McCanns reject this.
The first suspect
In a story that has consisted of unknowns and speculation, it is appropriate that it was a British tabloid reporter was first to draw the attention of police to Robert Murat, an expatriate Briton living 100 yards from the McCanns' apartment, in his mother's home. He had been involved in the search, had helped several reporters, and acted as a police interpreter. He was taken for questioning on 14 May, and on the following day was made an official suspect or arguido, as the somewhat contorted Portuguese legal procedures call it. Weeks of speculation, the digging up of his mother's garden, and more questioning followed before police lost interest in him.
The investigation
The lack of a swift and comprehensive search, and immediate sealing-off of the area, plus the failure to secure the scene, has been a problem. What in any jurisdiction would be a very difficult case was clouded by the inexperience of the Portuguese police, especially when local laws and customs of releasing little or no information were confronted by the 24-hour appetite of the rolling news industry. The tsunami of publicity, may have created some of the many red-herring sightings of Madeleine that have bedevilled the hunt. And, until the past few days, police have had virtually no concrete evidence to go on. What changed that was the belated forensics.
The forensics
Portuguese sniffer dogs had failed to find anything of significance, as far as we know, but British dogs – one a specialist in detecting traces of blood and body fluids, the other in detecting the scent of dead bodies – found material in a car that the McCanns rented. Samples were then sent to the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham, where, over several weeks, they were analysed. Traces of Madeleine's blood or body fluid – it is not known which – were found in the car being used by the McCanns, say their family. Unconfirmed reports say traces were found in the boot and on the key fob. What created an immediate sensation was that the the Renault Scenic was rented by the McCanns 25 days after their daughter disappeared.
The Renault Scenic
The McCanns did not have a car in Portugal before they rented this one. The police want to know why it was rented at that time, especially since it was the day before the couple left to go and see the Pope. They did not use it to go to the airport, but were driven there by an aide. The McCanns say they needed it to ferry friends and family about. They said they had ordered the car some time before and the day before the Rome trip was simply when it could be supplied. This car was – astonishingly – still being used by the McCanns last week.
The theories
* If the traces of Madeleine's body fluid or blood found in the car are proved to have come from direct contact with her body, then either she – dead or alive – must have been in that car, or something that was in direct contact with her body has been in that car.
* If the traces could have been left by indirect, or historic contact with Madeleine, then a more prosaic explanation will suffice.
* If the McCanns are telling the truth, then their daughter must either have left the apartment on her own between 9.05pm and 10pm or been taken by one or more abductors between these hours.
* If the McCanns have lied about the early evening, ghastly possibilities open up, including – at the extreme – the involvement of one or both of the parents in Madeleine's disappearance, and possible death. If that were the case, they would have to have been capable – throughout their appeals and the months-long search for their daughter – of a level of callous chutzpah unequalled in the history of crime.
Media onslaught
The news that Kate and Gerry McCann are suspects in the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine is a bittersweet moment for the Portuguese newspapers that have spent several weeks reporting a series of allegations against the couple.
Yesterday's 'Diario de Noticias' revealed that Kate McCann will not be allowed to leave Portugal until the investigation is complete, and that a relative has admitted that Madeleine may have been given medicine on the night she vanished.
Kate and Gerry McCann have endured increasingly hostile treatment by the Portuguese media in recent weeks, amid lurid allegations against them and their friends. These have ranged from claims about their "swinging" sex life, to alleged heavy drinking – and their choice of holiday companions.
Barely a week ago it emerged that the McCanns are launching a libel action against a Portuguese newspaper over reports stating police believed they had killed their daughter.
Jonathan Owen
99 comments:
LEICESTERHSIRE'S MOST SENIOR DETECTIVE CHIEF SUPERINTENDENT BOB SMALL VISITED THE MCCANNS, GORDON BROWN HAD NO REGRETS ABOUT TALKING TO THE MCCANNS BUT WAS NO LONGER PREPARED TO COMMENT..How astute of Gerry to realise it was going to be an "unending nightmare"..you reap what you sew..
Prosecutor passes McCann case file to judgeJames Sturcke and agencies guardian.co.uk, Tuesday September 11 2007 Article historyA dossier outlining the case against missing Madeleine McCann's parents should go before a judge, a Portuguese public prosecutor decided today.
Police had earlier handed their files to the prosecutor, Jose Cunha de Magalhaes, for him to decide whether to bring charges against Kate and Gerry McCann over the four-year-old's disappearance four months ago from a holiday apartment in the Algarve.
Luisa Duarte, a member of staff at the prosecutor's office in Portimao, said Mr Cunha de Magalhaes had received the papers and decided they should go before an instructional judge.
A Portuguese lawyer, Artur Rego, said this might mean that the prosecutor wanted to carry out fresh searches or more interviews.
It is also possible that he is recommending charges, although this would be unusual, Mr Rego said.
The judge has 10 days to decide on the next step.
The case file on the McCanns amounted to more than 1,000 pages, said Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, the Portuguese officer in charge of the case.
Neither official would give details of the police findings, citing the secrecy laws covering ongoing investigations.
Last week, Mr and Mrs McCann were named by Portuguese police as formal suspects in the disappearance of their daughter from the family's holiday apartment in Praia de Luz on May 3.
Part of the case is believed to centre on the results of DNA tests carried out by the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham on samples taken from the family's apartment and the car hired by the McCanns 25 days after Madeleine went missing.
Unnamed Portuguese police sources said the results indicated Madeleine had been in the hire car after she was reported missing.
However, Me De Sousa denied this when questioned by Portuguese journalists.
Alipio Ribeiro, the national director of the investigative Policia Judiciaria, suggested the forensic tests were inconclusive.
"We can't say with certainty whether it was the blood of person A or person B," he told the Portuguese state broadcaster, RTP.
"They help guide us in our investigation but not with the mathematical precision some people are saying."
Today, conflicting and speculative reports from unnamed sources about the nature of the forensic material continued to emerge, with suggestions that Madeleine's hair, blood and bodily fluids had been found by police.
Portuguese journalists said they had been told by senior officers that they found "bodily fluids" - not blood - with an 88% match to Madeleine's DNA in the hire car. The sample was taken from the part of the boot where the spare tyre is kept, the sources said.
Police searching the car found so much of Madeleine's hair that it could not have been transferred from a blanket or clothes and must have come directly from her body, the journalists were apparently told.
Mr McCann said earlier that the distress he and his wife had faced during the past week was "beyond description". Mr McCann said they had "absolute confidence" that the facts would demonstrate they played "no part in Madeleine's abduction".
"The pain and turmoil we have experienced in this last week is totally beyond description. Kate and I are totally 100% confident in each other's innocence and our family and friends have rallied round unflinchingly to support us," Mr McCann wrote on his blog, findmadeleine.com.
Gordon Brown's spokesman said the prime minister did not regret the involvement - including a telephone conversation - he has had with the McCanns.
"He doesn't regret that he has had contacts with them but this is an ongoing police investigation and it would be unwise for me to say anything more," said the spokesman.
Leicestershire police's most senior detective visited the family's home in Rothley today. Detective Chief Superintendent Bob Small spent about an hour with the family at their house before leaving in an unmarked car.
The force refused comment on the visit. A spokeswoman reiterated that it was a Portuguese police investigation.
In his blog, Mr McCann wrote that the couple could "never possibly have imagined being put in this unbearable situation".
"Despite the anguish and extreme distress this has caused all of our family, long term no one will be able to doubt how intensely Kate and I have been scrutinised. We have absolute confidence that, when all of the facts are presented together, we will be able to demonstrate that we played absolutely no part in Madeleine's abduction.
"Our primary concern has always been the search for Madeleine and this aspect, that our daughter is still missing, must remain a priority for the investigation."
The couple and their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, returned to their home in Rothley on Sunday.
"We have had very mixed emotions since coming back to our own home. It is very comforting to have such familiar surroundings and our own belongings and the twins have settled straight back in as if they have never been away," Mr McCann wrote. "We have had numerous visitors with friends and those in official capacities. We have appointed solicitors to advise us and assist our Portuguese lawyer in preparing our defence against any possible charges.
"The sooner this is done the sooner we can concentrate fully on trying to find Madeleine, which is the most important thing through this unending nightmare."
About this articleClose This article was first published on guardian.co.uk on Tuesday September 11 2007. It was last updated at 18:32 on September 11 2007.
This extract confirms that there was such a vast amount of complex evidence a second prosecutor had to be appointed, that the investigation was likely to become "international" and that very uncomfortable matters had to be investigated. When taken in conjunction with the fact that the most senior detective in Leicester immediately visited the McCanns upon their return home and then child protection workers, no one should be under any misapprehensions about just how serious and complex this case truly is.
Full article from Fox News 13/9/07 concerning the evidence and the seisure of Kate McCann's diary at
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296497,00.html
In another development, Portuguese Attorney General Fernando Jose Pinto Monterio entered the investigation, appointing a second public prosecutor to the case.
Luis Bilro Veinõ, from the Evora district in central Portugal, will work with Cunha de Magalhães e Meneses to help with the vast amount of evidence. He is one of Portugal’s most senior public prosecutors and a member of the governing body, the Conselho Superior da Magistratura Portuguesa. Monterio said that he hoped that “objectivity and serenity” would now prevail, and said that during such a complex investigation it was necessary to make “uncomfortable investigations”.
Indicating that the investigation could yet be widened away from just Britain and Portugal, the attorney general said: “The investigations did not end so we will need more interventions from the police. After that we should re-evaluate the restrictions it is possible to impose and which level of international co-operation we will need.”
Hi Viv,
Just popped on before work, thanks for a very interesting article,interesting to note that there was so much evidence that a second prosecutor was appointed,gives some indication of why as soon as they were back in England Kate and Gerry were down in London hiring top notch lawyers.. not something truly innocent people would have needed to do...Lizzy
Morning Viv and Lizzy,
"Yesterday's 'Diario de Noticias' revealed that Kate McCann will not be allowed to leave Portugal until the investigation is complete, and that a relative has admitted that Madeleine may have been given medicine on the night she vanished."
As we all have seen the investigation is not complete and they ran away in the first opportunity they had.That speaks volumes and I can't help but compare this with Vale e Azevedo who also escaped prison(again) here in Pt by going to London before a warrant was issued here two or three weeks ago. He is himself a lawyer and involved with fraud and falsification of documents when being the president of Benfica (football team).
According to today's CM an European arrest warrant was issued and this is interesting to see its development and the way the two states are going to deal with this.
* while
"Gordon Brown's spokesman said the prime minister did not regret the involvement - including a telephone conversation - he has had with the McCanns".
Is this spokesman trying to suggest he only had the ONE telephone conversation with Gerry, LOL, I don't think so....
In the days following, I clearly remember Sky news reporting that Gordon Brown had been calling Gerry on a DAILY BASIS. Not just one call, but very many. At a time when he should have been preparing to take over running this country. At a time when he should have had very important things on his mind, then just another crime statistic.
Just because he now chooses to take a back seat on this and has a number of Spin Doctors all working incredibly hard to clean up after him, it does not mean he is no longer interested in the McCann's.
Where there is Clarence, IMO there is still Government intervention....
Hello all
Viv
Like Stella says it was not just one call from Gordon Brown. There were many, plus the fact that the EU trip included an audience with the British ambassador.
As a side note, three bottles of wine between 9 adults seems very little to me.
Morning all,
Viv,
Another interesting article.
LGC,
If you are reading. Hope you are well.
Hi All
If Sky News said that Gordon Brown was calling every day does that mean it is right. I seem to recall most people complaining their reporting was blatantly pro-McCann and not exactly accurate.
If GB was concerned about the possible abduction of Madeleine McCann or whether her parents had something to do with it, was that not an important thing to have on his mind? I have said before that getting so closely involved was probably not a wise move but am surprised that people seem to think he is personally responsible for seeking to get the McCanns off. If he had wanted to get the McCanns off then why has the case not been dropped? Why would he put his own future/the Labour Party at stake for the sake of Kate and Gerry McCann? Gerry McCann also quickly made contact with Kirsty Wark and she interviewed him at the Edinburgh Festival, do you think she was helping him too?? Or was she acting like a hard nosed journalist, curious to get an interview with this man? Politically, Gordon Brown makes some pretty big mistakes, speaking on the phone with Gerry McCann, personally claiming he would do everything to get Madeleine back was one of them. I have said before would Tony Blair or Margaret Thatcher have done such a thing? He was then a PM in waiting, concerned about his public image, maybe he thought that showing what was perceived to be a caring new leader was a good move?
Marga you say a European Arrest Warrant was issued, if right this is major news! Can you reproduce the story here?
This was a very serious crime with International links that needed major investigation including Portugal, Britain, Interpol Europol and Eurojust. Clear links to Spain, Holland, South America, Malta et al.. Were the McCanns really allowed to run, straight into the arms of a Detective Chief Superintendent?
Did people forget the McCanns were taken to the European Parliament by a SCOTTISH CONSERVATIVE !
Viv x
Hello, darling! How are you?
Viv, the European Arrest Warrant Marga mentioned was regarding the other case she wrote about, the Portuguese citizen who is now in the OK and who is a suspect on a corruption case.
As for political interference, I truly believe it existed. Not sure about the personal involvement of GB, though. There is a possibility that he just believed them and made a mistake. The lab results took too much time; the request letters were obviously put on hold for as long as it was possible, being even returned for burocratic reasons; the former National Director of the PJ got a phone call from the British Ambassador telling him that there was an abduction to be investigated in the Algarve when the PJ hadn't even arrived on the scene (and this is more than normal diplomatic support); and let's not forget that when the McCanns fled, they didn't even have to go through the check in process, as everybody else. Only people who have connections would manage to pull all this.
P.S: I believe that the Portuguese government is not innocent in all this and that a diplomatic incident was avoided at all costs...
Viv, the FBI argument just shows how deluded they are...
Isee that the "Pros" having gone silent for a few days to re-group to consider their latest barmy strategy given how bad the news is for Kate and Gerry have dragged back to life one of their silliest arguments. That is all they do, rehash pathetic arguments, there are no real ones:
"Why don't the PJ hand the case over to Scotland Yard or the FBI?"
It is not just PJ who are handling this case, it is the most senior detectives also at Leicester Police, who have been involved from the outset.
As Gerry himself said in his own blog in May, ..a very senior British Detective is out here working on the case.
Scotland Yard is actually just another Police area in the UK (albeit the Metropolitan one) and there has never been any offer by them to take the case over, why should they but there have been a lot of suggestions by the McCanns the police files should get handed over to Metodo 3!!! or some other force should conduct a review. WE have had this from the expert ex Detective Constable with a fame agency in Leicester, serious stuff!! He also likes to criticise far more senior police officers the world over, is he just a little bitter and twisted he never got above the rank of constable..I wonder why he left!
What the Pros maybe do not want to mention is our own Serious Organised Crime Agency have been involved in this case from the early days.
As far as the FBI goes this really shows how stupid they are, this is in America, you numbskulls, what possible jurisdiction does an American criminal agency have to investigate this case In Europe, other than as part of international co-operation. Can they really be so thick!
It is Gerry McCann who wants justice American style of course..
He wanted the evidence of the dogs excluded, just like in Zapato's case.In fact he would like everything against him and Kate excluded and thinks he can buy this with the public's money he defrauded.. Only trouble is Zapato just admitted he murdered his wife and the dogs were right. Gerry wanted justice for perpetrators that you can buy with expensive lawyers in the States, not victims, just like OJ Simpson and Jackson. What about justice for Madeleine?? I have a picture from America concerning the sort of company Gerry McCann wants to be in, which I will include at the top of this thread, just for the Pros. What they need to remember is OJ is locked up now..justice, true justice, can take time, but no matter in which way it comes, it gets there in the end, and the world has long since made up its mind about Kate and Gerry McCann x
Hiya darling
Fancy me getting all excited thinking we already had the arrest warrant out for the McCanns. I am sure this chap will be arrested and popped off back to face justice. We get a lot of shady thieving lawyers in the UK too x
I think maybe in the very early stages GB did believe them and was also perhaps emotional about the loss of his own child. It was not a wise move.
I have no doubt at the very highest level between Socrates and Brown there have been discussions to seek to minimise political damage in relation to this case. The McCanns have conducted an extremely unpleasant campaign against Portugal which I truly believe Mr Brown would now be very upset about.
Viv x
Darling, I truly believe that if this case had always been a criminal one (by that I mean that the McCanns wouldn't benefit from all the connections, support and friends in high places they seem to have), it would have been solved by now.
Off to work now! :-)
Beijinhos, querida Viv.
Have a great afternoon!
Hiya Hun
I actually think that it was decided back in September there was so much more to investigate about the McCanns and their accomplices conduct to ensure a watertight case in court. It is very difficult to solve a murder case without the body. By allowing the McCanns to come back to UK they were coming back to be investigated yet further by Leicester Police, they were not being allowed to run away from anything in reality. It was, after all, Leicester Police and the British dogs that provided the breakthrough in the case against them.
Have a great afternoon at work.
Luv Viv x
Of course to observe is to learn, not something Sass did too well at, at school by the looks of things and nothing changed when she became and adult, did it!
Having clear forensic/bugged conversations confirming that Madeleine died this no hoper wants the Police to join the McCann's charade. Thing is they never joined in it, did they, on the very first night Madeleine "disappeared" as Kate McCann confirmed "well no, we did not go out and look as such, but we have been doing a lot of work, BEHIND THE SCENES". They they get a bunch of corrupt "fraud investigators" to look for her, apparently. I think they were actually looking for creepy men they could seek to frame, having gone off the idea of Murat and with money the McCanns defrauded from the general public. As Marco pointed out in a remarkably candid interview with The Times, Gerry McCann picked him because he was the only firm that was prepared to agree with Gerry's hypothesis that Madeleine was abducted by paedophiles. Marco also admitted he knew nothing at all about paedophiles and had to do some internet research. The public's money being wisely spent, searching for Madeleine, I think not. Were they bothered about the search for Madeleine when they were made arguidos, well no, first Easyjet out of there, in spite of all the promises they would not go home until they found Madeleine, an impossible task as these two knew all along.
Sass said...
marga said...
PT police observing this simulation is a good thing IMO.
Wednesday, 11 June 2008 17:03:00 o'clock BST
Have you ever heard anything so bloody stupid...
PT police observing this simulation is a good thing, yes thats what they are best at observing ! thats all they have done from the beginning...
Shame they couldn't spare the time to look for Maddie...
___________________________________
That's typical Marga. Posts for Brownie points with no logic to them.
12 June 2008 09:02
OMG we are n ot back to "calling in the FBI" again, are we? Might as well get Mossad in on it too, at least they DO have a proven track record of recovering missing children, which is more than M3 do, and makes about as much sense.
Obviously it's the Silly Season now as there is no "real" news to discuss. Hopefully it's the dark before the dawn!
Claudia
You just hit the nail right on the head, "people with connections".
Jill Renwick’s neighbour is Gordon Brown’s brother, brushing shoulders at her dinner parties.
Gerry’s on the board of COMARE (Radiation in the environment).
Gordon Brown wants to build new Nuclear energy plants in the UK.
Gordon Browns brother works for an energy company that could be given the multi billion pound contract.
Could Gerry being locked up in Jail cause big problems for COMARE?
Could Gerry being locked up in Jail delay or prevent the construction of the new Nuclear energy plants?
Would Gordon Brown do everything he could to protect his multi billion pound plans? You bet he would.
Now if that’s not enough motive to pull a few strings?
Yes Claudia, it is people with very high connections...
ROTB
The light at the end of the tunnel is getting bigger and bigger :-)
Yes Stella; it's the oncoming train!!!! hahahahaha!!!!
Rat
That would be the train from Portugal then, coming to collect the McCann's.
YES..YES..YES..phew!!
I almost had a moment there from when Harry met Sally.........
Not sure if this is true or not but someone over on 3A's knows someone who has been asked to attend Portugal in September for the trial of the McCann's????
Can this be true??
Hi Stella
Given the McCanns have not even been charged yet, there is absolutely no prospect of a trial taking place in September, things just do not happen that quick.
If Gerry wielded so much power, how come he is just a junior consultant not even earning as much as a GP, c £75,000 p.a? I think the truth is he took on a massive mortgage on Rothley Manor that he could not comfortably afford!
Viv x
Hi Stella
I agree with the strings being pulled in this case.
If the COMARE board is governed by majority vote, it wouldn't make any difference if GM votes or not to allow the nuclear power plants.
Viv
Is there any possibility that a witness has been approached to see if they are prepared to or able to go to court in September, and this is what they mean? From being charged and setting a court date, what sort of time is usually involved? I guess it differs from country to country, but if the Portuguese want to advoid any delays and can somehow push this through, could September be possible?? I don't know..
As for Rothley Manor, how on earth did he manage to get a mortgage on it on what he earns in the first place? Perhaps this also needs looking into...
Mariana
But what if, and this is totally hypothetical now, COMARE was aware of some health dangers or other dangers assoicated with the "New" breed of Nuclear power plants and that all of the COMARE advisors are fully aware of this, and all this needs to be kept top secret from the public domain?? Would you not look after those on the board in every way possible, EVERY way to keep that secret?
Hiya Stella
I think we should keep this simple, Madeleine McCann faced grave danger from her parents, and to a lesser extent so did her little brother. Those are serious criminal offences for which they are going to be charged, in due course. Gerry being on the board of Comare will not impress the police!
Viv x
* and sister!
Hiya Stella
It is inconceivable that a witness has been approached to attend a court case where the defendants have not been charged and I repeat given that situation the prospect of a trial in September in non existent.
Viv x
Stella
There are numerous arguments and studies against nuclear energy, that you can read
here and elsewhere and I don't think GM "holds" the government on some big secret.
It's not a trial in September, but witnesses such as staff and guests being asked to return to Portugal to speak to the Judge, he will then decide about the trial.
Any Portuguese people out there who can confirm if this is usual/unusual??
If this is only happening in September, this means we will not be seeing any charges brought before then somehow :-(
Viv -
Thanks for the recap and Jonathan Owen's interesting article.
I hadn't realised that the McCanns were interviewed by a member of the Leicestershire police (Bob Small) on their return to the UK. I thought it was just the social services who called on them. That certainly puts a different light on things!
Something that has always puzzled me is that when Jane Tanner supposedly saw a man carrying a child at around 9.15 and Gerry was talking to Jeremy Wilkins before returning to the tapas bar, why after Kate had alerted everyone to the fact that Madeleine was missing, and Jane Tanner had told her story about bundleman, Gerry didn't ask Jeremy Wilkins if he had seen the man carrying a child while they were talking. It would have been the obvious thing to do surely.
Mrs Wilkins said that someone did call at the their apartment to say that Madeleine was missing but rejected any offer of help to look for her that night. Why didn't the question of bundleman come up then?
The biggest problem the PJ's have is the fact that there is no body, and Gerry knows that!!
Stella
I would think such a move by a Judge in any country, is highly unusual.
Mariana
Maybe it's some crack pot on 3A's, who knows. I guess it will all come out in the wash..
I think the fact that Gerry and Kate have connections has certainly given impetus to everything that has happened worldwide in this case since Madeleine went missing.
However, I don't think Madeleine's disappearance is anything to do with those connections - that all came immeditely afterwards with Gerry's 40 mobile phone calls.
The charge, if and when it happens I think will either be gross neglect by abandonment, or the more serious one of having overdosed Madeleine by accident on the night she disappeared and then the disposal of Madeleine's body.
There will possibly be other charges to do with fraudulent practices etc, but I don't think they are going to get off lightly and go on selling themseles around the globe somehow, as much as they would wish to!
I'm signing off now, have lovely evenings everyone..bye
Hi Stella
My understanding is the police collect the evidence, the attorney general and his prosecutors assess it and advise the police, they compile reports for the investigative judge on the evidence collected and appropriate charges, he then reviews all that and considers whether the McCanns/others have a case to answer or whether further work has to be done. This is the procedure that has been going on. The final step will be the prosecutors/attorney general preparing charges based on the evidence and the judge again seeing whether he is satisfied there is a case to answer, if there is he will make orders as to setting the case down for trial. I think September is a very good time for expecting charges, but the trial date will be set months in advance to give the McCanns and their lawyers plenty of time to prepare their case. I do not profess to actually understand the Portuguese legal system in any depth but like UK it is governed by European principles of fairness, respect of human rights. I cannot believe the judge is going to actually speak with witnesses live without the McCanns and their lawyers there, that would be extremely unfair and biased against them. It is a fundamental principle of law that a party is entitled to know the case against them and be able to defend it. Again for this reason they would not have a trial sprung on them in such a serious case with virtually no notice.
There are some crack pots on 3 As, no doubt about that!
Hiya Nancy
You make some good points about the obviously illogical behaviour of Gerry McCann, but there again, even he does not profess to have seen Jane's bundleman, that would have been like looking in a mirror:-)))
Hi Viv, Stella and Mariana -
Is it countdown time yet do you think?
Was it the 14th June or July that something positive was supposed to come out of Portugal?
---------------------------------
Lovely day here in Spain after weeks of lousy weather. Actually went to the beach and had a swim this morning - nearly had a heart attack the water was so cold!!
Nx
Hiya Nancy
I seem to recall there was a prospect of the file being opened up on 14 July but I think they will probably hang on to end of August which is the latest, I think, going on memory. That is why I have always said charges by September, but just because they opened up the files does not mean they would be immediately forthcoming.
HOW LOVELY TO FOR A SWIM IN THE SEA but even in Spain, at this time of year, you are very brave. It has to be seriously hot for me to do that, but it would do my aching joints good. Rained last night, sun has been on and off today but currently streaming through my office window from the west, which is nice.
Have an electrician calling must do some more tidying before he arrives, house still in turmoil and much replastering etc to be done..my poor back and ankles!
Viv x
Viv -
I'm sure Gerry is looking in the mirror very often these days now he is a celebrity, and Kate too. The latest picture of them going out in their car with the twins in the back shows just how glamorous they have become lately. Most parents of a missing child thought to have been abducted would look twenty years older but not these two - they seem to look younger all the time!
Between you and me, I can't wait for the tables to be turned and the pompous look wiped from their faces!!
Nx
Hi Viv
The files will remain secret until the 15th of August. Whatever happens will be after that date.
Mariana, unless the case is shelved.
WE SHALL OVERCOME
HI ALL,
Well the case being shelved for a while, whilst they continue to investigate would be a bit of a blow, but look what happened in Zapato's case, 30 years of looking over his shoulder and now he is where he belongs, banged up.
Nothing is going to make the McCanns suddenly become innocent of causing Madeleine's death and personally I dont think this case is going to get shelved.
We shall overcome!
Viv x
I think the PJ's are just making the McCanns and their tapas pals sweat a bit!
If the McCanns had not acted as dummies through all this and spoken for themselves, I'm sure they would have stitched themselves up by now. Look how many times in their interviews they have been stuck for words; especially Kate, and Gerry loses his cool so quickly.
The only reason they are still walking around free is because they have monied connections who top up the fund enough to allow them to keep paying M3 and CM! Which begs the question, if CM was sent by a government minister to act as a spokesperson for the McCanns (as if they were both deaf and dumb), does he get a salary from the government too?
No ordinary couple would have had the backing they have after leaving their young children alone with one going missing! On the contrary, they would have still been in Portugal in all probability!
Money talks and that's what it's all about! It's not what you know but who you know that counts at times like this!
In spite of all that, the McCanns will have their judgment day and I don't mean when they finally meet their maker, but the PJ's will have the last word when the time comes.
Justice for Madeleine!
Hiya Nancy
Any serious murder and fraud case where the killer has disposed of the body will take a long time. It has only been just over a year. The McCanns have Clarence Mitchell because they have a wealthy backer who is known as a "rough diamond". I do not know what his connection to the McCanns is but rest assured there is one. The McCanns were allowed to come home so that they could continue to be investigated by our own police as well as the PJ. There is a vast amount of work that has been undertaken with the most senior detectives in Leicester in charge of a team of 30. The British Government would not touch Clarence Mitchell again with a ten foot barge pole, anymore than the BBC would. Anyone who seriously believes that he has actually helped the McCanns or Metodo 3 or Mr Smethurst needs to think about that very carefully. They have these people because they are desperate criminals and do not know which way to turn. They have been very ill advised in their conduct.
Viv x
Repulsive Rosie demonstrates yet again why she cannot see anything wrong with Kate and Gerry McCann:
ROTFPMSL
by Rosiepops Today at 8:20 pm
That has got to be one of the funniest things I have seen on TV the housemates all getting a shock when that wire is touched. That poor little dumpy one with glasses sorry don't know her name, ah, she was not enjoying that at all, I have been sitting here cracking up at them jumping all over the place. Oh no they are crying with pain now, oh dear that is a bit too much isn't it? Like torture.
Bianca again demonstrates she is an attention seeking liar. For the record, Bianca, I have never once argued that Gordon Brown is involved, you can check this blog and you will find that I have very consistently said just the opposite. You do not just know "next to nothing about Gordon Brown", you know "next to nothing" and you certainly do not know anything about me.
Viv x
children_deserve_protection said...
Hi Diane,
I had no idea that Gordon Brown had lost a baby. What a shame this is. And it certainly seems to explain why he would want to reach out to the McCanns, doesn't it?
I am not British and I know next to nothing about Gordon Brown as an individual, but as I tried to explain to Viv and Claudia back then (when Viv was still suggesting Gordon was "in" on everything) if such a big conspiracy had occurred and EVERYONE supposedly knew about it, then why wasn't it being formally investigated? The moment the Watergate scandal broke all eyes were on Nixon, and not long afterward he was investigated and they tried to impeach him (although he actually resigned in the end). I know that Madeleine is just one little girl and her story just one crime statistic, but still, if her parents had somehow killed her and the Prime Minister was somehow involved in covering up for this, then surely it would become a full-blown inquiry the second "everyone" found out?
Viv just amazes me the way she is now arguing AGAINST her original stance about GB, and how she is getting stuck into people on her blog who hold the very same opinion that SHE used to advocate!
Anyway, thank you for your response, and YES, even if people further down the line were involved (supposedly, at Clarence Mitchell's request) it would STILL look bad for Brown as it's his govt.
12 June 2008 14:29
Hello everybody!
I've been busy last few days & haven't read back properly, but will do so!
Re Rosiepoops & BB,
BB? Yuck, yuck, yuck!! I used to like it. First two series. These days it just feels like stalking. Ch4 invite the most dysfunctional people they can find. A bit like that embarassing illness programme. I think I would rather watch paint dry. Why would anybody subject themselves to that?? In the early days I enjoyed it for the 'social experiment' aspect to it. It was new & interesting. Nowadays, Ch4 have to make it so outrageously outlandish, it's an embarassment to watch. Yuck again! Says something about rosie and crew, don't you think?
BB is tantamount to prostituting yourself to the "I'm better than them" syndrome. Clearly the choice of a person who holds many self doubts - lol!
Viv, as to your thread today - brilliant! one sentence: Oh what a tangled web we weave! Lies perpetuate lies. If the truth were told in the first instance, the descrepancies would not exist. There are so many holes in the T9 statements, a whole world of golfers are rushing to tee off!!
How are you all?
Son finished his GCSEs today. I thought he would be ecstatic. Instead he is just feeling strange. I feel strange. My little boy is all grown up! :-( xx
Viv,
For what it is worth, I do remember your original thoughts about GB & it's nothing like Bianca is painting them to be.
Some of us had a discussion and all agreed that he was originally there for them in the very early days (understandably) & then when they were made arguidos/as, an "audience "with him was disallowed and passed down to a lesser mortal. I do not recall you ever saying or implying that he was involved politically in any shape or form. Wish I could remember which part of the blog that was on.
Anyway, I read her comments on ST yesterday and was a bit disappointed to see how she so easily turns on people. Didn't she say that she didn't belong on any blog with her opinions? Seems like she has made herself very comfortable to me;-) IMO. xx
Hiya Dillie
I tend to agree that as a social experiment Big Brother was interesting when it first came out, but since then it has dragged on and apart from so frequently being like watching paint dry, complete with birds tweeting, as you say, they have deliberately invited the people from hell to make sensationalist rubbish that the likes of Rosie would enjoy.
What I really took exception to about Rosie's post was though that she was really laughing and enjoying people apparently being tortured on there with electric shocks. I can only say again, I cringe at the thought of this person being anywhere near children.
My thoughts re Gordon Brown have been very consistent, I think he was well meaning but ill advised. Does anyone who regularly posts on "Supertrolls" actually belong anywhere, that is a good question.
Good to hear from you again.
All the blogs seem very quiet at the moment..the calm before the storm!
Luv Viv x
Yes, I had this image of poops practically jumping ('scuse pun) up and down with glee watching the torture. I can see where she gets her kicks from. Disgusting.
Interesting thing about STs blog is that it wouldn't exist without yours. She says she doesn't wan't to discuss "the case" and openly admits the blog exists purely to slag us lot off. Misplaced, displaced & all a bit sad really. I would feel sorry for them if it weren't for such blatant hatred. Actually, I call it jealousy :)))
xx
Hiya Dillie
Well yes, other people suffering is giving her great pleasure, perverted.
I think trolls blog is a place where they can share their perverted preachings about people they just do not have the intellect or ability to emulate. I am struggling to think where I have ever seen such a sick site x
Hiya again
I see that following my lead the Pink Trolls are currently discussing OJ Simpson and claiming he is innocent. Seemingly they do not realise he was subsequently found liable for causing the death of his ex wife and friend by stabbing them and ordered to pay $33.5M to the families in compensation, which he did not manage to do as he went bankrupt. He then had a five year battle to get his children back. In that case it was held that the evidence he murdered his wife whilst those two children lay in bed asleep and repeatedly subjected her to domestic violence could not be ignored. His daughter recently got 50 hours community service for violence towards police..shame he was ever allowed to go near them again. He has since been charged with armed robbery and was due to stand trial in April but I cannot find up to date reports of what happened, although predictably he was pleading not guilty. Fellow robbers admitted it and took a plea deal to give evidence against him and he was even caught on tape.
Another really nice innocent person they want to back, somehow they just seem to like killers dont they!
Viv x
I think they are just very insecure. Poor wee souls (my ar*e)
Maybe it is just pure anger and they have nobody better to vent it on. All the same, why set up a blog in the name of Madeleine and use it for a slanging match? They can say what they like about us and endlessly bang on about libel, defamation etc, etc, but at least this blog has an aim and a just cause in sight.
btw you & hope have mail. Just in case I am accused of being one of their "no-hopers" or billy-no-mates or a pretentious nobody :))
When do you estimate that charges may be forthcoming? I assume from the complexity of the case they will not be soon?
xx
I can't say I am surprised!! Just about everybody knew he was guilty. If they want to draw parallels they went to the right place/person. OJ fits the McCanns perfectly. Money, charisma, fame and a certain cold look in his eyes that says he is immune to human decency.
Was it them that said we shoot ourselves in the foot perchance?!
xx
Off topic, i know, but my cat is snoring!!! xx
Hiya Dylan
The three blogs they have all seem to be only interested in attacking me/others rather than talking about the McCanns. The last post on the Pink Blog is entitled "the rot sets in as vile starts banning people". Of course I did get rid of a troll they sent, one can understand them being upset about that.
They are about as much help to the McCanns as Clarence Mitchell but I suppose they realise there is nothing they can to do help the McCanns, they are quite obviously guilty and will be charged. I cannot say precisely when obviously because I do not know what stage they are at with the evidence, but I have always thought September minimum. I do wonder if the British Police will deal with the fraud, false sightings etc.
Viv x
Hiya darling
Luke just rang, got to go pick him up.
Catch you again a bit later if you are still around, but if not
Nite nite
Viv x
You are a great mum! Guess I shouldn't see mine as grown up as they never stop needing their mums do they?
Have a good rest of your eve. I'm afraid I'm off to bed now. Early start again tomorrow.
Nite & take care xx
Nite Dillie
I am glad your son has got through his exams, it is a strain on both, I know. Let him have a nice break and then head down for the As.
Good luck with your own course too, it sounds really interesting.
Luv Viv x
Good morning everyone -
Another tragedy concerning a little girl of 3 years old - Tiffany Hirst, whose Mother and Stepfather abandoned and starved her in a beetle infested attic over their pub!
This little girl was seen staring out of the attic window like a small porcelain doll on numerous occasions but nobody thought to ring the social services it seems.
But then why would they I suppose because she was well cared for until the stepfather came on the scene! Apparently it was a young Mum and a much older stepfather.
This has happened many times when stepfathers or stepmothers come into a child's life!
IMO single,divorced or a widowed parent with a young child or children who is thinking of remarrying should make very sure that the one you are going to give the charge of your child to is a genuinely caring person who will make a good parent, because jealousy of the child can often lead to this sort of tragedy.
So terribly sad - Tiffany was dead for about three days before she was found.
A prayer for Tiffany and all unloved and abused children.
I hope that all parents who are responsible for a child's death through cruelty, neglect and abandonment suffer the same fate as their poor child. They must not be allowed to get away with it!
Nancy, I don't even know what to say. I hope the people who let that happen rot in jail.
Claudia -
I agree entirely - in fact I said in my original post before altering it that I hope they rot in hell!!
I am fed up with the softly softly approach given to sadists - extermination is uppermost in my mind for the likes of those who torture children in any way, shape or form!
Being soft just encourages others of the same ilk to perpetuate the crimes. If they know they are going to suffer indescribably they will think twice before carrying out these dastardly crimes!
And, believe it or not, my family think I am too soft hearted! I may be, but not when it comes to the most vulnerable in our society.
Hi all,
I read the article regarding Tiffany Hirst. Truly shocking.
Justice for all neglected children.
Hi Zodiac -
I hope that when this case has drawn to a close, it would be a good idea to keep this forum as a place to comment on the plight of vulnerable children in our midst. I know Viv thought it was a good idea when I suggested it.
It's not a subject I like to read, talk, or hear about, but we have to put our own feelings aside to help little kids.
Perhaps from our chairs and computers we can getup enough power to force the authorities into treating the subject with extreme urgency instead of waiting for some poor child out there to suffer from sadistic adults and perhaps die as a result.
Nx
Nancy and Zodiac, the people (???) who do these things to children, deserve the worst life has. I believe the universe is wise and always makes people pay. One way or another.
Hi guys
I have horrible news.
Two little boys 6 and 8 years old have been found dead in a Northern Greece elevator of an abandoned building. The elavator was stuck between the 2nd and 3rd floors.
The two boys disappeared June 28 from a nearby playground.
Amber Alert was activated June 29. After questioning the parents the police announced that the children had been sold for adoption.
The father and a relative was charged but the mother was let go because she had another 12 kids. This was the police and the Prosecutors excuse, indeed.
The police has also found out that the same monster parents had sold another one of their children.
There had been no searches around the vacinity of the area the children had been lost.
It has turned out the abandoned building was very close to the playground.
Amber Alert was used for about 5 days non-stop.
It did not help the children, in fact it may have helped their demise as the abductors panicked.
Some food was found in the elevator with the naked bodies of the 2 children.
The coroner has said that there are no signs of physical abuse.
He has not issued all the forensic findings yet.
Nancy,
I think that is a great idea.
Claudia,
I think so too.
Madeleine, Shannon, Khyra and Tiffany all children neglected by the people who should have protected them, nurtured them, loved them. Neglected by people who put themseleves before their children. Disgusting no excuse for it. Justice has to be done. These children have no voice. This type of parenting cannot continue. It cannot be accepted in 2008. Children come first they are our future. These four little girls have been let down badly by their parent/s. Hopefully Shannon has gone on to a better life sadly for Khyra and Tiffany (both starved) they are gone, RIP in little ones. Madeleine her situation has still to be confirmed, I will wait patiently for the PJ to make a statement. No spin will ever change how I feel about this case. I do not believe she was abducted, I base my opinion on the behaviour displayed by her parents since 4/5/08. It is my opinion and I am entitled to it.
mariana,
I read about that. So sad. These children died unclothed. Why?
Amber Alert used and the children had been sold!
Zodiac
Yes the children have been found naked. I am told the police have not issued any statements yet as to what has really happened.
Children of 6 and 8 years old are not sold for adoption. That much I do know.
The mother told the police they had sold them for adoption. They have sold another one of their children in the past.
I believe they were sold for their organs or sex.
I am trying to find out more about the case.
mariana,
That is disgusting. Little children sold, by their parents, for their organs and much worse. Lock these people up and throw away the key.
Zodiac
I agree with you. They ought to be locked up.
You know the authorities there, let the mother go free and their excuse was that she had another 10 children to look after. There were restrictions placed on her movements, she had to report to police every 48 hours.
The authorities should have moved to remove custody of the rest of her children.
mariana,
The other children should have been removed, I agree.
What about the other child. What is that poor child suffering or has he/she met the same demise as his/her siblings.
'The police has also found out that the same monster parents had sold another one of their children.'
Zodiac
They don't know where the other child is. I suppose there will be an investigation now, to find the child.
The Home office has announced an investigation to the procedure followed by the police. The minister could not understand why there had been no searches around the area the children went missing.
There was a phone call by a woman who had last seen the children at the playground. The police claim they did not know about the woman's call.
Greece has no central data base on births. Children are registered through local government.
Hello Everyone!
Hello Zodiac!(WAVES)...
...just seen your message to me yesterday - yes thanks, I'm very well, just been incredibly busy with no time even to read what's been going on for days and days.
What I've actually been doing is checking out holiday locations for K&G. You remember there used to be a European wine lake? Had to track it down for them. And find a location where the twins will be OK on their own (what a waste of time, that's anywhere of course!).
And then there's been the packing to organise - something for jogging, something for tennis, something for meeting the Pope...some of the baggage will have to go in the wheel hub of the plane if they're not careful.
Everyone OK here?
:)
Hi LGC,
Nice to read you again.
Hi Zodiac,
You too!
Was it you who was having a medical intervention about now?
Hiya LGC
Great to see you back with your usual good humour.
So much for Amber Alert in Greece. Were the Greek authorities so busy putting these procedures in place they overlooked doing the obvious and go back to where these boys were last seen as their starting point. Is it not possible these children just got stuck in the lift in an abandoned building? Whatever, this should make the idea of Amber Alert as some magic panacea when it is almost always the parents, be looked at just a little longer and harder.
I am very sorry to hear about little Tiffany and have read about how her mother and step father just left her to die and also seriously neglected a baby aged 12 months who is mercifully alive. Mum has admitted manslaughter and the step father neglect. It is absolutely heart-rending to hear, yet again, that people were going to this pub, seeing this forlorn little child at the window and could not even manage to pick up the phone. Those customers would have known those two were down in the pub, leaving not only two babies but dogs as well. So why did they not report such terrible neglect and abuse. We need public information adverts in the UK emphasising that it is every citizens duty to report suspected child abuse, that is does not matter if they are wrong, they just may be saving a child's life.
We also need to see Kate and Gerry McCann firmly dealt with because of the message it will send out to others.
Viv x
LGC,
Yes next week. That is one of the reasons you popped into my head.
It has been very quite on the blog. I do not read newspapers I gave up on them a long time ago, I do not trust the content. The press coverage on this case from day one has been truly pathetic, not in the interest of M, IMO. This blog and 3 A's are where I seek information.
How is Opus?
Your suggestion about a holiday to the European wine lake. Perhaps all 9 should go and assist with the draining of it. They do seem to like the stuff. Wonder if the trip to Brussels was to set the next hol up. Amber Alert merely a distraction.
'Brussels to drain wine lake
By Andrew Bounds in Brussels
Published: December 20 2007 03:18 | Last updated: December 20 2007 03:18
Europe’s wine lake should be drained within five years'
They do like hols where the drink is included. Only an opinion.
Hi Viv
It would have been impossible for the two children to get inside the lift all by themselves, without hurting a knee or an arm or something.
Whoever put them there, left them to die. Some food was also found in the lift. The kids had eaten a bit of it, so they didn't cry, meaning they were not heard.
Like you say Viv Amber Alert is not the magic panacea they make it out to be.
I believe it was this TV bombardment, that panicked the criminals and had the children killed.
Hello
Testing testing!!!
Hiya Viv and all:-)
Atardi,
Holland played "wonderfultasticly"
again.
After having read the previous thread, I was surprised to notice (NOT)
SASS-SCHEISSE-SHIT
commented on one pf my posts in their SASS-SCHEISSE-ROSA site.
I'm not even to comment on it.
We are happy to have a wonderful weather here. Friends coming from the Algarve are visiting me at the moment and some of them are eager to take a rest after having "survived" an awful year of stress and pressure. I'm glad they can have a break before they go back to work in July.
Now I'm goin to read today's posts and I'll thry to come back again.
xo
sorry for the typos..
our dinner lasts more than a three-hour lunch ...
Hi Viv & all
Finally,
I was beginning to think I had been banned!! :o((
I have been trying to post all day but nothing has happened.
Hope everyone is ok. I was trying again to catch up whilst the other half was watching footy. Now the footy is finished he will be expecting me to watch a film.
Well that is so typical. :o)))
Hi all
I've not been all that well for a couple of days, but I would just like to say 'nice one' to Atardi's team:
Nederland 4: France 1. Easy, sublime, beautiful. The opposition had no chance.
If they do not win it they will have thrown it away yet again. I'm telling you, Claudia!
Latest update:
McCanns 1: Madeleine 0. Long way to go in this one but the opposition seemingly had no chance either. We'll see.
Glad my post has got through..
Bye for now will try again tomorrow.
Viv,
Sorry. This is off topic. And it's about football.
Marga and Docmac ,
Thanks. Have been watching with neighbours and kids. So now we are celebrating. It's so nice to celebrate a victory together.
Docmac,
McCanns 1: Madeleine 0. Long way to go in this one but the opposition seemingly had no chance either. We'll see.
I think it's still half time in Madeleine's case.
And who is celebrating it with the Mc Canns?.................
CM and other child neglecters. I think it's the minority/minderheid.
Beterschap.
Thanks Atardi,
You must have had a fantastic time at the neighbours'. I've read your other message and will reply tomorrow. Sleep well later when the celebrations are over.
Hi, guys!
Hope you're all well.
The weather is great here, school year is almost finished, a lot of great and funny things to do and the hell with the child neglecters. Life is great when your loved ones are around you and when you appreciate the good things of life.
P.S: Atardi, what a team. Jesus, I'm speachless! Congratulations! :-)
Hi All
I have made two posts myself and then lost them, only to discover that for some reason I was no longer signed in!
Mariana
I have read the report about the two Greek boys having become stuck in between floors in a lift in a newly constructed block of flats. I have to say I see nothing in this report below to suggest they were abducted. This just does not make sense to me. Lifts often do malfunction in this way by becoming stuck between floors and they broke the window and threw their clothes, trying to attract attention. Given the coroner says they could have survived for up to 5 days it is absolutely tragic that such basic police work was not done. I have had three boys and know just how adventurous they can be, two boys aged 6 and 8 exploring in this way seems completely typical to me and I believe it was no more than a very tragic accident and police incompetence, jumping to the wrong conclusions about the parents having "sold" them.
Greek officials say 2 missing boys died trapped in an elevator
The Associated PressPublished: June 13, 2008
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THESSALONIKI, Greece: Two young brothers whose disappearance prompted a nationwide alert died of starvation and dehydration when they became trapped in a broken elevator in an empty building, authorities said Friday.
A coroner concluded that 6-year-old Aihan and 8-year-old Amet Ceribasi had survived for up to five days in the elevator before dying, hospital officials said.
Authorities issued a nationwide alert for the brothers after they disappeared in the northeastern city of Orestiada on May 28.
Police later arrested and jailed their father and another couple on suspicion of having sold the boys, who were two of about 10 siblings.
Late Thursday, a woman alerted police about to a strong smell coming from a newly constructed but empty apartment building near where the boys disappeared. Authorities found the brothers' bodies in an elevator stuck between the second and third floor.
Today in Europe
Irish voters reject EU treatyThe 'legacy' question trails Bush on his European tourChina-Germany talks thaw relations that had cooled over Tibet
Regional police chief Christos Nikolopoulos said the boys were found naked but bore no visible injuries. A small window on the elevator door had been broken, and the boys' shorts and shoes were found on the floor outside, he said.
Police believe the children broke the window and threw their clothes out in an attempt to attract the attention of anyone entering the building.
It was not immediately clear how they had become trapped in the elevator.
That story about the two Greek children is unbelievable. It makes one speechless. I hope the responsible ones rot in hell after dying a painful death.
Hi Claudia
But what a travesty of justice to lock the father and others up for having "sold" them. It is beyond belief!
Poor little boys could so easily have been saved, what a terrible death.
Viv x
Hi Viv/all
Reading Sos Maddie it appear the Mccanns have confirmed they are to go to Strasbourg to attend the European Parliament with the support of the British Government. I find it amazing that they have support when they are after all suspects in the case, although it does mention the fact that several MEP'S are critical of their attendance. But I still think it is outrageous they are there at all. Just my opinion though..but their arrogance never ceases to amaze me. Lizzy
Hiya Lizzie
I will see if I can find it and then let you know what I think, but my gut reaction is no one can be stopped from campaigning for something and the McCanns do this to pursue their own agenda of seeking to suggest they are not involved in the death of their daughter, it was an abduction, in spite of all the evidence telling us that is well...expletive, deletive!
I think we need to remember that at present they are suspects only and so can do what they please, so long as they comply with their bail conditions, i.e. return to Portugal within 5 days if requested and not to leave home for more than 5 days without notifying police of their whereabouts.
Viv x
Hi Lizzie
Have had a read, it seems to me that five Euro MPs are putting this forward and using the McCanns as figureheads to pursue their own agenda, not a good move! The McCanns are not really putting anything forward because it has been in the pipeline for years..they are just doing what they can to seem like decent people, which we know they are anything but!
I will put up a new thread on the latest two articles on SOS Maddie because it is some important news we can discuss.
Hey guys
I am taking bets as to how long it will now be before Supertroll's sick site suddenly disappears and she has to eat her words, she brags she is "1001 times worse than me", how incredibly sick!
Viv x
Friday, 15 February 2008
My take on the Madeleine case
The case is reaching its conclusion.
DNA results were inconclusive.
All the blood and body fluid comments were just speculation. There is not enough evidence to charge the parents.
There is no evidence they were involved.
The PJ allowed the crime scene to be compromised.
When more senior officers took over the case, the damage was already irreparable.
Hopefully the parents will be released from their arguido status so that they can try and rebuild their lives and carry on hunting for their daughter.
I can't even begin imagine how painful it must be for them to never know what happened to their daughter.
I hope for them that one day they will get the answers they need.
My heart goes to them.
Posted by supertroll at 10:56
13 comments:
wednesday9 said...
Thank you troll, nice to read a sane post among all the madness.
16 February 2008 21:46
Anonymous said...
Troll hooray somebody see's that BITCH for what she is.
Knows about law ( ah ah ah ah )probably the wrong side of it.
Coventry is full of prossy's.
Bet they would want change out of 50p if the light was on.
There's docrot ( doctor my a**e ), clawdshite ( needs a bloke she's desperate YUK ) think she bats for the other side, alsashite (the queen of Portugal)know all no nowt, hubby cleans the bogs at the airport, leighcraptrap,2345 what a looney, and tin Lizzy their noses must be browner tha s**t.
I hope you show this on her site PLEASE !!
18 February 2008 16:17
jomac said...
OH, Supertroll, This site is just what is needed to counter the horrendous views of Viv and her naive pals, responding to a fake doc. OH God, it would be so funny if not for the tragic subject.
Anyway, do I know you?
If you are who I think you are ( I am sometimes wrong, take no offence) I cannot access your other site.Any hints?
19 February 2008 01:11
jomac said...
Forgot to say you know my e-mail address, so talk soon, take care.
19 February 2008 01:24
Anonymous said...
I agree completely with you, Troll - you have done a great job in presenting a balance view of the McCann case.
19 February 2008 01:53
Anonymous said...
Well done for giving a more objective balanced view as opposed to the vile evil truth for madeleine site that should be banned
19 February 2008 09:02
Anonymous said...
Correction to my earlier post..Should read viel,evil Justice for Madeleine site that should be banned
19 February 2008 09:06
supertroll said...
Welcome jomac,
Glad you liked the site ;).
I'm afraid I don't know you, I am relatively new to this and did not post on the DE.
Nice to meet you and hope to be hearing more of you soon.
Regards
ST
19 February 2008 10:32
Anonymous said...
Wonder why the doc bothers you so much? too near the truth?
As for you taking the piss out of the morons on there, I would say a fair amount of piss taking is aimed at you.
19 February 2008 19:56
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Wonder why the doc bothers you so much? too near the truth?
As for you taking the piss out of the morons on there, I would say a fair amount of piss taking is aimed at you.
19 February 2008 11:56
Oh Supertroll me thinks you are upsetting Croella de viv or docnot.
Hows docmacs little play things ?
Bla bla bla bla. Take a look at the site supertroll
Bet Croella de viv wished he lived over here, he could mend her gammy foot.
19 February 2008 20:52
Anonymous said...
supertroll good work!
definitely upsetting docmacs "little playthings" they have been dispatched like drones to attack.
docmac notdoc os apparently swinging from the stars!
19 February 2008 21:33
Anonymous said...
They are still lining up on the Croella de Viv site to trash the the McCann's.
2345 has to be one of thickest posters and Prat on the Beam is not far behind her.
My hope is that soon someone in Portugal will call time on the keystone kops and force them to release the McCann's from this ridiculous arguido status.
Because of them a child had no chance of detection and her abductors are still free to repeat their sick crimes.
20 February 2008 18:29
Anonymous said...
so many words of hate and anger coming from this blog. It seems to only exist to criticise another blog. I have no opinions about the McCanns, but I can't imagine all your hate talk is helping them in any way. Maybe redirecting your energy would be healthier. Reading your blog has made me sad. Go and do something positive for Madeleine.
28 February 2008 04:25
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Against the Vile Blog, the 3A's and their illegal activities
The author of the vile blog is madly in love with Notdoc
Vile having a break after hours of posting abuse in her blog...(picture:www.evilhumour.com)
Vile and Notdoc finally consumate their love!
Notdoc won't be posting for a while...and neither will Southerncross
Quote of the week...
The introduction of Vile's PET PAGES quote:
'Parrots are reputed to have the intellect and reasoning power of a four year old child'
The sooner the parrot takes over the keyboard the better!!!
Wonderful! Posted by Assassin in her blog.
Sicko of the Week...
Sicko of the week Ecolab again for discussing sexual child abuse regarding Madeleine McCann.
I am not going to post the rubbish this person has spewed out on that blog as it is distasteful, disgusting and probably illegal, but it is as bad as ever.
Ecolab (aptly named after a brand of toilet cleaning products) seems to harbour some very sick fantasies involving children. He/she seems to be using the Madeleine McCann case as a vehicle to express them.
In my book someone who posts this kind of stuff, whether it is about a famous missing child or an anonymous one is nothing more than a PERVERT
Creep of the week...
Creep of the week award goes to Dolores for agreeing with Ecolab's claims
I also want to mention as special creeps, those there who know such claims are perverted but will choose to ignore them and carry on happily posting there.
By behaving like this they condone this type of behaviour and allow it to continue. Are they too scared of challenging Viv?
As they said in the Nurenberg trials:
'Following orders is no excuse, provided a moral choice was in fact possible."
How would they feel if someone used their child/grandchild to make up such lies and indulge on sick fantasies on the internet?
ST
LINK TO THE VILE BLOG
WARNING: NORMAL PEOPLE MAY FIND THE VIEWS EXPRESSED THERE REPUGNANT.
Vile's blog:
http://justiceformaddie.blogspot.com/
How dare they run such a blog in Madeleine McCann's name?
Disclaimer:
The author of this blog wants to make clear that she is in no way associated with the vile blogs or shares the views of those who post there regularly.
Blog Archive
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Our version of the 3A's stupid leaflet
20 Questions for the regular posters of the Vile...
McCann haters - The lowest of the low
They just don't get it!
► April (3)
How the media has reacted to the McCanns plight
Reasons for posting in Vile's
A lover's Tiff? Promoting irresponsible behaviour?...
► March (8)
More dreams and visions
Dreams and visions
Some justice at last?
How can they!!!!!
One minute silence...Then the feeding frenzy resum...
Old news, same old rubbish
Interesting article from the Sunday Times
Calm after the storm
► February (5)
Wonderful post by anon
Spelling mistakes
Blogging and Bullying, a step too far
Censorship
My take on the Madeleine case
About Me
supertroll
I am 1001 times worse than Vile. Out to get Vile because she wouldn't join me in my quest for global supremacy. She stole my two favourite commanders Dr Notdoc and the Evil Claudia, poisoned their minds and decided to stay at home writing some nasty little blog full of clones where she forces everyone to agree with her. She will only release Dr Notdoc and Claudia back to me if I catch and hand her over Rosiepops and her gang, so I have infiltrated their blog and am acting as a double agent.
The link below from 3 A's LOL!. When I watch the real seasonal film I will think of this send up. PMSL.
http://www.jibjab.com/sendables/share_view/LwixejTTv6Wm75y18sDtfgsh
Hi guys
I am having some workmen in my house and it looks and feels like a madhouse.
Hi Viv
Here is another case of tragic child abuse in Australia this time.
I will read your new thread some time later, it sounds heavy but I believe it is worthwhile.
The clever person accepts responsibility and apologises.
The crafty one finds all sorts of stupid or idiotic excuses.
The stupid one keeps insisting he has done the right thing all along.
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