Kate McCann: Walks were staged
Title from today's edition of Correio da Manhã
Lusa 27 Julho 2008 - 00h30
Caso Maddie
Segredos de Kate: Passeios eram encenadosKate e Gerry McCann controlaram os meios de Comunicação Social britânicos na cobertura noticiosa do desaparecimento da filha. Para não serem criticados pela imprensa inglesa, os pais de Maddie ofereceram sessões fotográficas, algumas durante os habituais passeios matinais no Algarve – aparentemente rotineiros mas previamente combinamos, como revelam os apontamentos de Kate.
Conheça todos os pormenores em exclusivo, na edição do ‘Correio da Manhã’ deste domingo.
Google translation:
Lusa July 27, 2008 - 00:30 am
If Maddie
Secrets of Kate: Tours were staged
Kate and Gerry McCann controlled the means of Social Communication in the British news coverage of the disappearance of her daughter.
To avoid being criticized by the English press, the parents of Maddie offered photographic sessions, some during the usual morning walks in the Algarve - apparently routine but combine previously as illustrated by the notes of Kate.
Know all the details in isolation, in the edition of 'Morning Post' this Sunday.
http://www.correiomanha.pt/noticia.aspx?contentid=9971183F-8992-4633-81A7-191C951FDB16&channelid=00000009-0000-0000-0000-000000000009
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208 comments:
1 – 200 of 208 Newer› Newest»Thank you Ecolab - you are doing a great job in keeping new threads going while Viv is away.
All the stuff coming out of Portugal now is just confirming what we always suspected - Gerry is a control freak and certainly had a hidden agenda.
I'm going to watch Andrew Marr in half an hour to see if there is any mention of this - wishful thinking I suppose!!
Stonemaid
What is going on?
The Forum of The 3Arguidos just for members now.
Site Admin:
"Due to the change in circumstances with regards to the McCann case, we have held a meeting and we are closing the following forums down to registered members only. These forums are Madeleine McCann - The Way Ahead - Madeleine's voice Forum, The Reference Forum, Justice for Maddy Forum and the Translations Forum. All other forums will be open to viewing for guests. We have also decided to delete all zero posters. Please could all those that join make at least one post otherwise your account will be deemed as inactive and will be deleted.
This will be done over the course of today and all members will now have to log in to view or post on the3arguidos Maddy related forums.
Thank you for your co-operation in this matter and welcome to all new members."
From The Independent:
Plot to dump Brown
Ministers prepare for a succession war in the autumn as support for PM hits an all-time low
By Jane Merrick and Brian Brady
Sunday, 27 July 2008
Battle lines were drawn last night for a Labour leadership contest between David Miliband and Jack Straw, as cabinet ministers declared that Gordon Brown's premiership was all but dead....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news
/uk/politics/plot-to-dump-brown
-878260.html
Not much chance of a political change re: the McCanns.
One known supporter and the other let Pinochet's lawyers run ring round him.
Ecolab
I would think it is for the same reason that Viv made this blog members only.
If you want to continue to read it seems from your post that new members are still welcome.
Sorry I missed you yesterday lunch time, I had to do some urgent shopping having stayed indoors all day Thursday and Friday.
ICTOAN
It seem as The McCanns are succeeding in bullying and threatening bloggers and open Forums!
Does it give Justice to Maddie, that 500 people around the World knows what is going on, but are under cover and just talks to themselves? I`m NOT pleased with this. The Thruth has to be puplic, othervise it is not heard.
ECOLAB
I agree with what you say but this isn't an ideal world and I am sure the Moderators of blogs have taken legal advice.
I wonder however how many casual readers there are.
I have just joined 3A's and made my first post in the new members thread.
WAS MADELEINES "ABDUCTION" PREARRANGED by the McCanns?
We know that `walks were staged´!
That Gerry was NOT on holyday!
That the worldpress did stay put - spot on- within houers!
That the English ambassador, John Buck, had been in the apartment within houers offering McCanns his solidarity!
ORE connection?
Madeleine the weakest link?
Madeleine, a matter of National Security and therefore disposeable?
Her faith given in advance - prearranged and worldwide within houers?
That sort of things do take time and have to be prepared and rehearsed properly before launch.
- TEAMWORK
Ecolab
Madeleine is dead I'm sorry to say.
We had some "insider" knowledge posted on this blog by a well respected poster. For obvious reasons the poster has deleted that revelation so I do not feel at liberty to repeat it.
Those of us who read it know who and why.
You yourself have discussed the reasons for the "cover up" and who is involved.
I think that is as far as I can go.
ICTOAN
You do`nt have to answer, my friend.
I just think, that the time up to the holyday i Portugal is highly significant and important in understanding, why this(we all are avare of) happend in the apartment in May.
Right now, I`m trying to find my way around The 3Arguidos. I find it very difficult.
I have registered, but find it difficult to find the frontpage and read what is up.!
Hi ICTOAN
I missed this and am kicking myself!
"We had some "insider" knowledge posted on this blog by a well respected poster. For obvious reasons the poster has deleted that revelation so I do not feel at liberty to repeat it.
Those of us who read it know who and why."
There is always so much to read, and it is very time consuming, so I just wish I had been logged in when that information was posted!
If Viv could give you my email address would you post it to me then??
Stonemaid
Ecolab
You need to start with:
http://www.the3arguidos.net/forum/
index.php
Above the large panel is:
View active topics
click on that and then click on te topic heading that appeals to you.
I would suggest you make a first posting either on "introduce yourself" near the top of page one at the moment or on page 2 "hi everybody. New member just joined"
ICTOCAN
Thanks. It must wait untill later. I`ll soon have to get ready for work. I do`nt have that much time left. Yesterday I were at job from 1400 to 2400. A very turbulent evening and I had a lot of writing to do, before I could drive home. Bedtime at 3 o`clock in the morning, and my sister rang me from Greenland at 9 this morning! I told her to apply for a job here in Denmark (She is an antropolog in Greenland and pendle back and forth!)I could use her by my side at my job, but she is not interested!...hmnnn...what do you have sisters for *loool*?
In a couble of weeks we are having a huge party for all members of the family. My sister and a cousin will be sleeping at my place. I can`t be at the party myselv, but will attend during the night, when I`m off duty and next day before job.
Two of my boyz will be there for me, so that`s okay. They`ll all have a bang of a weekend!I think a little envy is okay?
See ya later ;-))
Stonemaid
Sorry, I missed you post earlier.
The information was not posted by Viv.
I might be better for you to e-mail her so she can ask the poster's peermission or get that poster to contact you.
Stonemaid
BBL.
As a change from Madeleine merchandise you might like the McCann
range:
http://www.cafepress.com/numptees
050505/5488262
Hi ICTOAN,
I posted on here about 10 mins ago with that link. I do not know where it went.
OMG! And they think they are going to storm America. LOL!
Zodiac
I don't know if you have had time yet to watch the buffalo video.
I think that docmac was disappointed that so few people watched it. So when you do, let him kow what you thought of it when you are both on line together.
ICTOAN,
I tried this link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/
worldnews/article-1036216/Pictured
-The-incredible-moment-leopard-
attacks-crocodile.html
All I get is todays articles. Am I doing something wrong?
COTAN,
Got it. Going to read and watch it now.
Thanks ICTOAN
I've just emailed Viv, so I hope she will see it on her return from Bristol!!
Has everyone gone away? Or are they all on Claudia's and 3As websites??!!
Stonemaid
ICOTAN,
My heart was in my mouth the whole time watching that. The real time commentary from ordinary people really added to the quality. I wathced it twice.
No, Stonemaid. I for one am not away. Just terribly busy with other things.
Nice to see you posting and hello to everyone else.
See how it got to me:
Wathced should be watched. I must have bit my tongue.
Hi Docmac,
Loved the video.
Hello All
I have just read the latest thread.
So the walks were staged.
What a surprise. Anyone with more than two brain cells would have sussed that from day one.
Zodiac
I just wish the McCanns had seen it before they....
I don't always get time to read all the posts, so I'm sorry if this has already been posted.
It's a lovely and amazing film. Enjoy!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4407100.ece
Thanks for the Buffalo video Docmac. It is a lesson in good parenting for sure! I saw it a long time ago, but was glad to see it again and none of the magic disappears for seeing it several times. Quite an amazing piece of filming and I'm not surprised it was such a popular YouTube video.
I do hope the little baby calf was not too severely injured from contact with the lions and the two crocodiles too.....
Stonemaid
JJ
Orrrrrrrrrr!
Thanks jj for the other lion film. It is absolutely astonishing and very moving indeed. I hadn't read the comments under the video before and was a bit sad about this:
"After the meeting, Christian was never seen again." awwwwwwwwww!!!
Totally off-message I know, but the following was one which made me laugh!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEfYI94LzDs
Stonemaid
As they say, 'A little child shall lead them'
And now no-one wants Gordon Brown!
Animals have more compassion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOt
9y04jrTQ
Hi All
I assume you are on Claudia's site. I have been able to open up Claudia's site but cannot get on to July only April. HELP what am I doing wrong, I have not had a problem before today.
Hiya everyone
Just to say I am back but rather shattered it has been so hot and steamy!
I gather Claudia has been doing a great job enthralling everyone with the contents of Amaral's book. It is good to know that what we thought was the truth, actually is!
I am shocked about the completely new revelations concerning Payne and Gerry. There is no way I can risk opening this blog back up, Payne has not even been accused by the police, so far as we know and no doubt would sue for libel! It is fine discussing it on a private blog however. If there is truth in all this, British Police will not let this matter pass.
I am having to post on my laptop sitting on my bed because the house is in utter chaos as building work continues.
My friend Wendy lives in the most idyllic little village nearer to Bath than Bristol. He rear patio overlooks a panoramic vista in a huge semi circle every way you look of rolling green hills fields and woods. I have seen buzzards soaring, watched woodpeckers come right up to the garden and lisened to barn owls calling to each other at night. It is truly gorgeous but even hotter than where I live, if poss Her little bungalow is also immaculately tidy, I wish I could go back!!
Viv xxxxxxxxxx
Hi Di
Maybe you saved the link from a particular article and that's where you'll go if you use it. Just use the main page link and you should have no problems at all.
Doc..Thanks for that I have just tried and you are right:o))
Viv.. Welcome back we have missed you. I hope you have enjoyed your break, you are right it is soooo hot, but I am not complaining.
Welcome back Viv
This site has been relatively quiet since you've been away and Ecolab has been the only one with the knowledge (or inclination)to start new threads.
BTW
The Madeleine sections of 3A are now closed.
ICTOAN
Bump..I did not want you to think you had won the bet LOL :o))
Off shortly to watch a film.
I still have not had time to read all of Claudia's translations, as there always seems something else to read, like Kate's notes.
I will get there eventually.
Viv, workmen back here tomorrow :o(
Welcome bck, Viv. We missed you.
Hope you enjoyed your time off.
I'm going on holiday soon to. :-)
Claudia
Lucky you anywhere nice?
Off now.
Enjoy your evening, see you all tomorrow.
Hi and thanks for the welcomes back and to Eco for some great new threads.
Unfortunately as the case against the News of the World has just confirmed libel laws are strict in UK and clearly the McCanns are not afraid to use them to shut people up. Now that they are no longer arguidos it is much more difficult to claim that is is justified to publically proclaim their guilt.
I think we also need to remember that public discussion like this could preclude them getting a fair trial. We should not overlook the possibility that Portugal have merely shelved the case to actually shut the public up so that they can ultimately be charged and put on trial. There were high level meetings between Stuart Prior and Portuguese Prosecutors etc and I think this would have been what they were discussing. Remember Mr Prior was asking that information should not be put into the public domain and I think he got his wish. Generally the information would be made public but we hear it is just being handed to McCann lawyers. Of course they probably can do nothing to stop Mr Amaral but it pays to remember he has not been involved for the past 10 months and so there is inevitably going to be a huge part of the investigation he knows nothing about and he makes no secret of this. Therefore to suggest all the details of the investigation are being made public is wrong and would not be in our interests anyway because it would enable the McCanns to complain that they could not get a fair trial and therefore should not be put on trial. I am sure none of us would want that.
If there is sexual abuse then this is the bit that is clearly under wraps but also I am sure the most serious fraud. No Brit can commit fraud worth about £2M and get away with it, these are two issues that would explain the input of the Serious Organised Crime Agency (aside from murder of an abused child)
I think people continue to fail to look at the probable strategy of the police in "shelving" the investigstion. This means it can be opened back up again, and I am sure it will be, it is not declaring the McCanns are innocent!People continue to suggest there is no co-operation between Brit and Pt Police, I can guarantee you this is wrong, there most certainly is, to ultimately bring this couple to justice and without them being able to shout unfair trial.
Hi and thanks for the welcomes back and to Eco for some great new threads.
Unfortunately as the case against the News of the World has just confirmed libel laws are strict in UK and clearly the McCanns are not afraid to use them to shut people up. Now that they are no longer arguidos it is much more difficult to claim that is is justified to publically proclaim their guilt.
I think we also need to remember that public discussion like this could preclude them getting a fair trial. We should not overlook the possibility that Portugal have merely shelved the case to actually shut the public up so that they can ultimately be charged and put on trial. There were high level meetings between Stuart Prior and Portuguese Prosecutors etc and I think this would have been what they were discussing. Remember Mr Prior was asking that information should not be put into the public domain and I think he got his wish. Generally the information would be made public but we hear it is just being handed to McCann lawyers. Of course they probably can do nothing to stop Mr Amaral but it pays to remember he has not been involved for the past 10 months and so there is inevitably going to be a huge part of the investigation he knows nothing about and he makes no secret of this. Therefore to suggest all the details of the investigation are being made public is wrong and would not be in our interests anyway because it would enable the McCanns to complain that they could not get a fair trial and therefore should not be put on trial. I am sure none of us would want that.
If there is sexual abuse then this is the bit that is clearly under wraps but also I am sure the most serious fraud. No Brit can commit fraud worth about £2M and get away with it, these are two issues that would explain the input of the Serious Organised Crime Agency (aside from murder of an abused child)
I think people continue to fail to look at the probable strategy of the police in "shelving" the investigstion. This means it can be opened back up again, and I am sure it will be, it is not declaring the McCanns are innocent!People continue to suggest there is no co-operation between Brit and Pt Police, I can guarantee you this is wrong, there most certainly is, to ultimately bring this couple to justice and without them being able to shout unfair trial.
Hiya claudia
I missed you too and it is good to be back. I just wish I could get into my office and onto my normal computer but my office is completely empty -only builder s stuff
I dont like laptops much! No email progs on here..
Hi, Viv.
I know how annoying it is to see your house upside down. But once it's finished, you'll see it was worth it.
Viv
So nice to hav you back,I missed reading your input so much.
I am sure you feel well rested and pampered after your few days away.
D xx
Maddie case – Press was manipulated in exchange for photo shoots
Kate managed the news and controlled the English
The McCann couple took four hours to outline their strategy, went out for walks on request from the British photographers and escaped the Portuguese
Kate and Gerry McCann controlled the British media in the news coverage of their daughter’s disappearance. In order to avoid criticism from the English press, Maddie’s parents offered photo shoots, some of them during their usual morning walks in the Algarve – which were apparently routine, but previously arranged, as Kate’s notes reveal.
“The British journalists were annoyed because they found out too late that I had been in the United Kingdom. It ended up with Justine receiving loads of phone calls and arranging for a photo shoot on the way to the church, to pacify them”, Kate writes on the 15th of July, revealing a tactic that was adopted in the first days after the 3-year-old girl disappeared.
“Dress up and go for a walk. It had been requested by photographers and agreed that for sentimental reasons it would be good”. This walk happened on the 7th of June, three days after Kate registered that she had been “annoyed” about the presence of Portuguese journalists outside the apartment. Before that, on the 19th of May, the photo shoot for the English newspaper ‘Sunday Mirror’ was previously arranged: “Us spending time with the twins for the Sunday papers”.
In the same notes, Kate expresses distress about the Portuguese and the German journalists. On the 11th of June, in Morocco, after Kate made a positive evaluation of the trip because there were so many photographers present, the doctor remembers “noticing” Portuguese journalists. “We didn’t want to give them a story”, decided the McCanns, who classify the questions from the Portuguese as “sleazy and unexpected”, even after preparation meetings that last “four hours”: “I was very angry at a journalist today. I told her not to do so much detective work.”
Concerning the editor of the ‘Sun’ newspaper, on the 11th of July Kate was assured that there would be no “adverse publicity”: “She was really nice. Perfect solution”, Maddie’s mother noted.
Clarence replaced Justine when the tension rose
Clarence Mitchell was the first one to offer his face for the McCanns. He met Gerry on an occasion when the latter was returning from England, at the end of May 2007, on a time when he was part of the Consular Assistance Group, representing the Foreign Department. He took over the couple’s defense on the 22nd of May, but returned to England in the mid-summer, when he was replaced by Justine McGuinness, who directed the campaign to search for Madeleine from the 22nd of June onwards.
The tensions between the McCanns and Justine were never evident. But the fact that she abandoned the couple’s defense immediately after they were made arguidos and returned to England, remains unexplained.
Now, it becomes clear that the tension came from before. Justine and Gerry had already discussed the honoraries. The advisor wanted to receive overtime and demanded a payment that was above was had initially been agreed.
On the 28th of July, the tension between the family and the spokeswoman was obvious. Kate wrote in her notes that she [Justine] did not have good “interpersonal aptitudes” and that she could even be very “unpleasant”. Kate remembered that there had been an argument between Justine and a relative and that Gerry had tried to calm them down. “It all ended well”, Kate McCann concluded, but still seriously doubted the advisor’s character.
Journalists far away from the house
The McCanns’ first days in England were subject to intense media attention. They allowed to be photographed with their children again, after they had agreed exclusives with televisions and newspapers to cover the return.
Days later, Clarence Mitchell opted for another strategy. He agreed with the English journalists that those would never persecute the McCanns again. In exchange, the couple’s spokesman would supply fortuitous meetings, and in case the journalists would fail their compromise, he would exclude them from his contact list.
Everyone accepted. When in March CM [Correio da Manhã] tried to speak to the McCanns without going through Clarence Mitchell, we were intercepted by the police. The couple demanded for the Portuguese journalists to be forbidden from getting close to their house, and their neighbours were advised not to speak.
Robert Murat sues the McCann couple’s friends
Robert Murat, the first arguido in the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, is going to sue some of the McCann couple’s English friends.
According to news in yesterday’s edition of ‘Sol’ newspaper, the Anglo-British citizen is going to advance with complaints over the crimes of perjury and slanderous denunciations, alleging that the English lied in the depositions that they gave to the Polícia Judiciária with the purpose to incriminate him.
Robert Murat, who is going to receive hundreds of thousands of euros in compensation from 11 British newspapers, was made an arguido only 11 days after the little girl disappeared, on the 14th of May 2007, after several friends of Kate and Gerry McCann referred his presence in the Ocean Club apartment on the fateful evening of the 3rd of May 2007, in Praia da Luz.
Notes
Newspapers | Gerry is brilliant – “Gerry was brilliant again”, Kate wrote in one of her usual accounts after the meetings with journalists, during which it was her husband who did the talking.
Maddie | 14 months ago – Madeleine McCann disappeared 14 months ago from the apartment where she was on holidays with her parents, in the Algarve, on the evening of the 3rd of May 2007.
Investigation | Case archived – The investigation started by focusing on the abduction theory and then on the possibility of an accidental death followed by the concealment of the cadaver. The process ended up archived.
Tomorrow: How Kate McCann lived the first day without Maddie
Last edited by astro on Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hello ALL
Welcome back Viv...
Can anyone help me and tell me where I can find the picture of the Happy McCann's pushing the buggy.???
xxx
Hope
The 31st March thread on this blog has a picture of the Happy 2 with a pushchair.
ICTOAN
Thanks so much will go and find it now xxx
Hello everyone! I have changed my user name, sorry for any worries concerning the handle "dobby" it is my nickname. I did respond to concerns at the end of "A get out clause for the McCanns?"
I never believed that the hand-holding strutting that the Mcs performed on camera, complete with strategic cuddle cat and ribbons/rosary combo was natural. The worst of the contrived closeness was when K gripped and squeezed G's thigh during the televised anniversary interviews.
Looks like the "gloves are off" in Portugal and not in Rothley as threatened. And the pink clown has been remarkably quiet since Monday - maybe being an arguido wasn't so bad after all. They "demanded" the lifting of the status and got their wish ... the Mcs are now free to answer any questions without fear of breaching the secrecy of justice and reignite the search for Madeleine aren't they?
Viv did you get my email?
Lindy
Lindy
Hi Sorry for my post asking if you were the Dobby from the DX but he was not very nice...
Welcome and sorry you had to change your name I have nothing against the name Dobby just the last jerk that used it...
xxx
Viv,
Your comments on the fair trial are comforting words.
Welcome back. I hope you feel rested and able to cope with the disarray in your home!
Off to bed. Hello and goodbye to Hope and all. Nite xx
hope4thruth
There are several photos of the happy McCanns and the buggy.
buggy1
buggy2
Madeleines birthday
Thanks Ecolab x
Hi Viv
Great to see you back. Missed you, hun
The Fort is still standing, as promised ;-))
Hope
No problem at all and I was more than happy to clear things up.
I read DX threads daily but never contributed as it was truly shocking at times. We all know who the playground bully was/is ... it became "pro vs anti" and everything was getting lost in the vitriol. As soon as a dissenting voice was heard over the parapet, questioning the saintly Mcs then they would attack. But how, I ask, could anyone defend blatant neglect of three children with a combined age of seven? How could they keep saying it was a "mistake".
The bottom line is that it was always about Madeleine a three year old child who "disappeared" off the face of the earth. I am pro-Madeleine and want nothing more than to see justice, peace and dignity for an innocent baby who was never four years old. I posted on Sky for a while but got fed up being called a paedophile/childless/heartless etc., all because I questioned from May 4 2007 how apparently intelligent, professional people could leave their babies unattended. The story about the apartment being unlocked is imo their soft option, neglect is a better charge to face than manslaughter/murder.
I take heart in the fact that they haven't been formally cleared as his pinkness has said. No case would ever be "shelved" it may go "cold" but never closed. I also have faith in the PJ and the recent meeting with Stuart Prior from Leics to discuss the case.
Do the McCanns really believe that they can "lose" a child and be above suspicion?
Lindy
Lindy
Yes it was very strange way back then to be attacked for saying anything that was not the McCann's way when something as obvious as neglect had taken place.
If Gerry really belived it was ok to leave the children why did he halve the distance to the Tapas bar? When he first said "It was like having dinner in your back garden" I thought the apartment was one side of the quiet road and the Tapas Bar was the other and he had a clear and very near view of the apartment. When the distance was shown I was shocked they could be so bloody stupid.
Madeleine has been lost in all this and she is the only victim. Kate and Gerry have acted in an alien way over her disapearence she is mentioned as an afterthought. I cant imagine how I would feel if either of my girls were to go missing but even thinking about it fills me with dread.
Welcome again x
Rachel Oldfield and Fiona Payne are going to be sued.
Robert Murat sues the McCann couple's friends
Robert Murat, the first arguido in the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, is going to sue some of the McCann couple's English friends.
According to news in yesterday's edition of 'Sol' newspaper, the Anglo-British citizen is going to advance with complaints over the crimes of perjury and slanderous denunciations, alleging that the English lied in the depositions that they gave to the Polícia Judiciária with the purpose to incriminate him.
Robert Murat, who is going to receive hundreds of thousands of euros in compensation from 11 British newspapers, was made an arguido only 11 days after the little girl disappeared, on the 14th of May 2007, after several friends of Kate and Gerry McCann referred his presence in the Ocean Club apartment on the fateful evening of the 3rd of May 2007, in Praia da Luz.
Dolores
Jolly good!! That'll put the cat amongst the pigeons!!
Stonemaid
Stonemaid
I think the lot of them are going to regret the lies they blatantly told.It's payback time.
Hi all,
Viv, glad you had a lovely break.
Good for Robert Murat. His life this past 14 months must have been hell. Pay back time now.
Hello, guys.
Hope you are all well today.
Hi All
You'll be pleased to know that I won't be pestering you for the rest of the day as I have just returned from having an Endoscopy.
I'm told that I must rest for the rest of the day and among the thinks I must not do is to operate a computer.
How long I keep that up is open to question.
(This posting prepared before leaving home and send button operated on return).
Hope you're feeling OK ICTOAN - make sure you rest today and obey doctor's orders!!
Stonemaid
ICTOAN, hope you're feeling well. Rest well.
ICOTAN,
Hope you are feeling well and the results are good.
I had an Endoscopy in June, everything was clear. The sedative made me feel quite tired for a few days.
Now, I have some important documents for you to sign today!
Hiya ICTOAN
Please rest well and have a good break. Any sort of stress will not help while you are already under stress and this case is certainly that!
We look forward to hearing from you when you are feeling rested and recovered and hope the endoscopy results are good.
Take Care and God Bless
Viv xxxxxx
Dolores
How lovely to see you back and as ever bringing us great and very interesting news.
I am just wondering why Robert will not also be sueing O'Brien because he was one of the group of three who went back in July 05 and confronted Robert with their rotten lies. This must have been simply terrifying for Robert fearing they would indeed implicate him and I hope he obtains justice for what they did.
As I know it is not just about the money, it is about letting them know just how much they made you suffer, then you can feel you have justice.
Go, go Robert!!! It just serves them right!! If we hear that Fiona and Jane decided to settle his legal claim then that is tantamount to saying they lied for Kate and Gerry, a prospect I do not mind admitting I asbolutely relish:-))))))
I think it is fair to say we not only Honour Goncalo Amaral for quite properly making the gruesome twosome arguidos we also Honour Robert for his grace and dignity in the face of being wrongly accused (unlike Kate and Gerry who are rightly accused and have responded like typical criminals, by lieing, excusing, minimising, threatening and denying).
In their own ways both Goncalo and Robert bring us a step nearer to Justice for Madeleine by exposing the truth and making Kate and Gerry's lies even more untenable and simply incapable of belief. If they would just stop threatening people it would help but they cannot do that and we know full well just why that is. Their long term aim is to walk away scott free, persuade the public they are indeed innocent and of course make themselves millions for killing their own daughter and mercilessly dumping her in the sea.
I was very interested to read the posts abouut Kate's notes which in fact shows I underestimated just how controlling and calculating she is herself, never mind Gerry! It is quite repugnant the British press were actually blackmailed and controlled by her, only agreeing to give the story to those papers that "toed the line" and went through Mitchell and printed his sickening rubbish on their behalf. I do not know how he sleeps at night. If it were me visions of a murdered and dumped little girl would keep haunting me, but there again, I am a normal person with empathy, unlike Kate, Gerry and Ludicrous.
** or even July 07!! Must be the heat!!
Viv
You said it all in a way I never can, all I know is every dog gets it's day and theirs is surely coming,I refuse to believe they will get away with this.
I have been in Italy my brother rented a villa near Florence.We had a marvellous time there as usual.But miss it terribly now.
Hiya Dolores
/Thanks for your kind words but I am sure we all think others put it better than we do ourselves and I am no exception!
With almost my entire working life in the law, particularly criminal and close associations with police, even having been married to one, I also simply refuse to countenance the idea these two, or indeed their criminal associates are going to get away with this. I know what detectives are like. They absolutely love netting major criminals, it is a serious thirst they have to quench. Stuart Prior and his team have that thirst and I believe the Portuguese are totally co-operating with them. The investigation has to continue because it is so vast and multi-dimensional it would seem, not only encompassing fraud and murder but also sexual abuse. Whenever the police are investigating paedophilia and fraud the net always extends very widely and I am sure that is what has been happening in this case with Interpol being very closely involved/ The fact our own Serious Crime Agency have also always been involved always told me this is a very serious case with a very high level of serious criminal activity, otherwise they do not get involved,not even in the average murder of a child. There has to be more to it than that. I will say what I always have said, IMO, the McCanns are sick people with no empathy whatsoever or love for Madeleine, they used her as a "cash cow" and I think it is very likely that involved sexual abuse and deliberate and planned murder because she was getting too old and talkative...just about to start school but she never got the chance, child abusers always dread their children having to go to school and will quite often simply fail to send them, this starts to get them noticed. K&G were not going to take that chance. What was the motivation in starting the IVF process when Madeleine was herself only a baby at the time. I do not thnk that is usual or normal, it is a harrowing process and suggests they were not satisfied with what they got and needed more. I continue to believe the twins are in serious danger with this couple and they should have been removed. Never mind showing deference to these two. Purely on the basis of what they freely admit to they are completely unfit to care for children. They left them to cry and then went and done it again, wicked! Kate's explanations for this demonstrate someone who is completely without empathy and totally abnormal in her thinking and attitudes.
Viv xxx
By the way Dolores darling I am glad you had such a lovely and well deserved break in Italy and am sorry you had to come back too. It is obviously where your heart is:-))))))
Viv xxxxx
Viv
To me they epitomise all that is evil.If they had any feelings at all for their children they would never neglect them.But to love your children you need a loving heart and soul,which they don't possess.
I have been concerned also for the twins as they are now at the age of repeating what they see and hear.They should have been removed immediatly Madeleine went missing as they proved they were not responsible parents and very dangerous ones.I really fear for them.
This is indeed a massive case and when the police have all the evidence they need then they will have them.
D XX
We showed the judge how they did it and presented it to the Judge and Jury on a laptop, this halved the trial time. Serious investigations and trials take 3-4 years we want to reduce this... a fascinating insight into the work of SOCA who as will be seen are very interested, in those, like the McCanns who enjoy harnessing the technology to further their criminal activities. Kate and Gerry both sat there laptopping on their "holiday". Hands up who would take a laptop? Let alone one each!!
It will be seen the sums of money involved in confiscation orders she talks about, positively pale, when compared with the fraud of Kate and Gerry McCann and they have not finished yet!! I think the Police think they should though..
I just enjoyed my break with Wendy, laptop free:-))No agenda to pursue, I just needed a break!
Viv xxxxx
24 August 2007
Interview: Sharon Lemon of Soca
Ian Grant, Computer Weekly
The UK's law enforcement agencies are fighting back as organised crime makes heavy investments in technology and hacking skills.
The Serious Organised Crime Agency (Soca) is leading the fight against computer criminals, alongside specialist local police computer crime units. The organisation was created last year from the merger of the National Hi-Tech Crime Unit (NHTCU), the National Crime Squad, the National Criminal Intelligence Service, and parts of HM Revenue and Customs and the UK Immigration Service.
In an exclusive interview with Computer Weekly - her first since the creation of Soca - Sharon Lemon, former head of the NHTCU and leader of Soca's e-crime unit, said the organisation brought together a wider range of skills and powers to fight crime.
Its formation recognises that computers and networks add a new dimension to old crimes and create opportunities for new ones, with e-threats arising worldwide, she said.
Soca has 4000 staff and a budget of £416m. It is responsible for investigating and preventing crimes such as organised drug smuggling, fraud, money laundering and financing terrorism, as well as e-crimes.
The idea that work on e-crime stopped when Soca took over the NHTCU is a misconception, Lemon said. She pointed to a high-profile success last year, when two identity fraudsters were convicted on evidence collected by Soca. They had nearly £200 000 confiscated under the Proceeds of Crime Act.
"We prepared a show-and-tell of how the gang operated, which was presented to the jury on a laptop," said Lemon. "The judge commented that this probably halved the time and cost of the trial."
Cross-border justice
In another case, Soca achieved a world first in cross-border justice when it worked with Russian police to persuade a Moscow court to use its evidence to convict three Russians for distributed denial of service attacks designed to extort money from UK online gambling firms Betfair and Blue Square.
Lemon has spent much of the past year building up relationships and networks with other e-crime units, particularly in the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, but also in the former Eastern Bloc. This work led to Moscow setting up its own high-tech crime unit.
"We can now call on a network of 140 Soca offices in 40 countries to help in an investigation," she said. "This gives us the largest reach of any law enforcement organisation in the world, except for the US Drug Enforcement Administration."
Lemon stressed that the e-crime unit has access to all Soca staff and their investigative and operational powers for any case. "We have more capability now than we had at the NHTCU," she said.
"My mission is to create a climate of fear for the online criminal. We want them to know that we can and will track them down wherever they are." Lemon's view is coloured by her experience as head of the National Crime Squad's paedophile online investigation team.
Early intervention
Lemon worries about the time it takes to bring criminals to justice. "Our mission is to prevent harm to UK citizens," she says. "But investigations and trials can take three or four years. I think we need to intervene sooner to make things harder for e-criminals."
Soca's strategy is to gather intelligence about threats and the methods used, attack them, and so cut the room criminals have to operate.
Through Soca and other agencies, Lemon would like to see harmonisation of legislation that would make it easier to investigate and prosecute e-criminals in other jurisdictions. This would require action from the European Council and other international law-making bodies.
In the meantime, she is developing relations with G8 members, Interpol, Europol and others to get "push-button co-operation". This worked recently in tracking and arresting one of Norway's most wanted fugitives, an alleged murderer of police officers, she said.
Local e-crime challenge
Although Soca's work on the international front has shown results, the local e-crime-fighting scene is confused. For example, local police have been referring card fraud victims to their banks, rather than taking on investigations themselves.
Businesses and security professionals warned in April that the merger of the NHCTU into Soca could leave a gap in the policing of technology-related crime.
Their concerns, that victims of computer crimes that cross local police borders have nowhere to report them, have yet to be resolved.
Lemon pointed out that, although the NHTCU took reports of e-crimes, it was never a reporting body - and neither is Soca.
Plans to set up a centralised e-crime co-ordination unit under the Association of Chief Police Officers, could help. But this project is strapped for cash - something a House of Lords select committee has asked the government to supply "without delay".
The committee has also called for e-crime to be reported to a central point, and, separately, a Fraud Review has proposed a fraud reporting centre.
"These are all interesting developments that need to be considered as a whole," said Lemon. Soca's e-crime unit could benefit if information on computer crime is reported to a central point, she said.
The National Hi-Tech Crime Unit (NHTCU) was launched on 18 April 2001 as the lynchpin in the UK's response to cybercrime. It undertook national investigations of serious and organised crimes that used IT, and achieved a 94% conviction rate. It also consulted to local forces and other agencies, liaised with government on policy issues and provided a 24-hour point of contact for G8 countries.
The NHTCU contained elements from the National Crime Squad, the National Criminal Intelligence Service, HM Customs and Excise and police forces, and worked closely with the IT industry. It was absorbed by the Serious Organised Crime Agency on 1 April 2006.
Operation Tertiary: the Gelonkin case
The Serious Organised Crime Agency played a major role in Operation Tertiary, an international investigation into a crime gang that used the internet to obtain credit card and bank account numbers from unsuspecting Britons.
Gang members Anton Gelonkin and Aleksei Kostap used the accounts to steal at least £900 000 through online gambling sites and eBay, and police believe the real total could run into several million pounds.
The gang transferred funds from legitimate credit card accounts to credit accounts registered with online betting companies. They were able to set up the accounts under the names and addresses of the compromised account holders using forged identity documents.
When the gaming industry took countermeasures, Gelonkin and Kostap changed tack, using compromised credit cards to buy goods from internet retailers, which were delivered to PO box addresses opened using false identities.
The gang resold the merchandise on eBay, withdrawing profits in cash and transferring it overseas using Western Union, offshore banking services and unregulated online banking facilities.
National Crime Squad officers arrested Gelonkin and Kostap on 19 January 2005. Gelonkin pleaded guilty, and Kostap was found guilty at trial on 27 November 2006. Gelonkin and Kostap were subject to confiscation orders for £156 654 and £30 705 respectively in July 2007.
Dolores
Absolutely agree with what you just said, completely spot on!
Going to shower and go out and eat because it is way too hot to be arsed to cook anything:-)) Although we did have a nice barbecue last night! I had the washing up this morning though :(((
Laters
Viv xxxxxx
Viv
Enjoy your meal. See you later.
Interesting article.And a very worthwhile cause.
D X
I couldn't keep away.
Thank you to all who all who sent their best wishes.
The result showed that that part of my anatomy has no problems.
In reading the on-line papers I was struck by how the powers that be can be just as callous about adults.
Typhoid victims locked up for life in mental institution
More than 40 women typhoid sufferers were locked up for life in a mental asylum to prevent them spreading the disease, according to newly-found records.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/
uknews/2465208/Typhoid-victims-
locked-up-for-life-in-mental-
institution.html
No wonder the "probable" death of a 3 year old in their eyes doesn't amount to much.
Hi icaotan
Glad to know you well.
mandarinn
Thank you!
Just wanted to wish you all a good night.
Viv, hope your house is ready soon. :-)
Dorme bem.
Good Morning Campers
It looks like the Police in Britain also wanted to "fit up" Robert Murat.
From Amaral's book:
"- Info from British police, based on statements from a childhood friend: Murat, as an adolescent, was a pervert, attempted to have sex with a dog and a cat, then killed both of them with cruelty; also, same source said he would have attempted to rape a cousin, when he was 16
- British profilers conclude Murat has 90 % of possibilities of being responsible for the kidnap of Madeleine."
This seems to have arrived with the PJ in time for him to be made arguido.
Information about Payne which must have been obtained at about the same time took 6 months to be transmitted.
If true that's very damming information about Murat and I can now see why he was put in the frame. As you pointed out it is strange that the statement regarding Payne’s proclivities, again if true, were late in being passed over. As Payne had more opportunity and access to Madeleine than Murat he should have been put in the frame as well.
Wizard
It was mentioned on 3A by one poster
(sorry I didn't note the link) that the informant about Murat had a dubious past himself. From memory the word criminal was in there somewhere.
The information about Payne came fro Doctors whose "reliability' has not been questioned as far as I am aware.
Good morning ICTOAN and Wizard.
ICTOAN - so glad your results were good news and I hope you are fully recovered.
Re Murat, I am sure his ex wife would not have been so nice about him, defending his character as she did if he were this wicked person that his "friend" said he was. I think it more probable that the "friend" held a grudge. Not that I know Murat at all, just an opinion. Also everyone who knew him in PdL attested to the fact that he is of good character and liked by all.
xx
Thank you dylan.
I am now permitted to operate machinery such as a kettle.
Wizard
I found the quote by KazLux on 3A:
"This information was extracted by Blueberry from "A Verdade da Mentira" by Gonçalo Amaral
- a psuedo-friend of Murat, with a police record, gives a statement. He says that, as an adolescent, Murat tried to have sex with a dog and a cat, which both died with the trauma; also that when 16yo, Murat tried to rape a cousin. He described Murat as violent and disturbed, sexually deviant, sadist... PJ thought it all very strange.
- However, the British profilers decided there was a 90% chance that Murat had abducted Madeleine. PJ felt that was too easy, to evalute based in part upon the testimony of a known criminal."
ICTOAN & Wizard,
The term 'pseudo - friend', i think, says a lot. I wonder if it was Murat's testimony that got him charged??
dylan
That is a very tempting thought.
The Portugal News - Portugal's National Newspaper in Englsih reorts........
"In a separate development, the chief of the National Director of police has this week vowed to "search to the ends of the Earth" to find the missing girl.
Link:-
http://www.the-news.net/Default.aspx
The case is not as shelved as some would like.
BTW
The 'findmadeleine' site has crashed.
Majority opinion is that it has been hacked.
Wizard
That confirms what has been speculated about in other sources.
ICTOAN
Hope you are feeling ok after yesterday tried positng here and kept loosing the box...
xxx
Hope
Yes thank you. I think my usual lack of hangovers after a night out has been a bonus in this case.
As I said earlier, my sister is even trusting me with the kettle.
ICTOAN - lol! - and lucky you, I really HATE hangovers!
Hiya Hope.
Off for a lunch break now. It's taken me all morning to format my reference pages. Word drives me insane. I kept getting indented lines that I couldn't get rid of so I had to re-type them all into a new document. After that I pasted into excel to get it to A-Z but word woudn't put it back to the format I had before. Nightmare & I now have steam coming out of my ears! Need a break. BBL
xx
Hello All
Sorry if this has been posted before somewhere.
This has been worrying me for some time and I can't think of an answer.
The dogs found the smell of a corpse on Kate's clothes. Why was there no smell of death on Gerry clothes?
After all, if he had carried the body to the sea, or stored it and later put it in the hire car, there would be a smell on his clothes.
Maybe the person who the Irish family saw was really just someone carrying a sleeping child. (Nothing to do with the case)
I can't think why the smell is only on Kate's clothes.
Surely Gerry would be the one to carry the body.
If he disposed of his clothes, or hid them in one of the other flats, why not do the same with his wife's clothes?
I can't remember whether the dogs searched the other flats.
I can't see that Kate could have done anything to Madeleine without Gerry knowing.
Could he be covering his back and setting her up to take all the blame?
Anyone got any ideas?
Hi JJ,
I think the scenario of Gerry disposing of his clothes is the most credible. Maybe he thought that since Kate didn't have anything to with the disposal afterwards, that the scent would not be on her clothes. Or, more probably, neither of them thought about the scent on their clothes but Gerry disposed of his because he realised a witnes might identify him from the clothes he had been wearing when he carried her off. Just a thought!
xx
Hi everyone. Sorry to be a pain in the neck...!!!...but why have Gerry's clothes not been found if he disposed of them??? Surely he would not have left out all the other things which did have the scent of death on them; only disposing of his own clothes??
Was it Viv who said it could take about 3 years for this case to find its way to court? I really do hope something happens much sooner than that because I really can't cope with the strain of waiting for answers - there is far too much which doesn't fit as well as it should...almost as though there is a 'get-out-clause' built in for G & K whatever allegations are levelled at them. As I said before, they seem to have a teflon coating which is impermeable.
Who is this Tapas 10 person? Does anybody know? Is this person their final coat of armour which makes prosecution impossible/improbable/unlikely??
I missed the posting made (which was subsequently withdrawn) about who did what, and why - I wish I knew what had been said because it might lift my spirits a bit - the way things are is impossible to understand. Why hasn't somebody arrested them yet? Is it really, as the PJ have said, that there isn't enough to pin on them so far as a court of law is concerned?
Getting soooooooo frustrated with all of this!! I just want to see the smugness taken off the faces of those two child neglecters (and likely worse).....
Poor little Madeleine; will she ever see justice?
Stonemaid
What a brave woman. All my respect.
Right on the spot, Maam.
Woman from Rothley speaks her mind about the McCann case-1
Woman from Rothley speaks her mind about the McCann case-2
Woman from Rothley speaks her mind about the McCann case-3
Stonemaid
I totally agree. My brain is beginning to hurt as well.
I vaguely remember a tapas 10 person being mentioned, and boy, would I like to know who it was.
If indeed this person existed.
But I am still wondering why the dogs did not find any scent on Gerry's clothes.
I agree with Dylan. He could have disposed of his clothes because he thought someone might have seen him wearing them.
But the clothes he wore in TV interviews a few days later looked like the description given by Jane Tanner. Beige trousers etc.
As you can see, I have no answers, just loads and loads of questions!
Thanks for pointing us to that YouTube video of a woman in Rothley speaking her mind....very brave lady, as you say.
There is a Downing Street petition website somewhere...as far as I know anybody can start a petition about anything...does anybody know if a petition has been started concerning the Madeleine case?
If more people spoke out publicly, like this lady on YouTube, perhaps the British press would stop fawning after these people. Thank God I never watch that ghastly Fiona Phillips woman...I can just imagine, though, how she falls over backwards supporting this awful couple.
Translation of PJ Report & Download English Version
The translated file can be downloaded here
PJ report vs. Amaral's book - a comparison in three parts
Part I
Maddie: find the differences between the PJ’s report and the book
The text by Gonçalo Amaral reports on various details from the investigation which are not contained in the report from the Polícia Judiciária. But the latter is only a summary of the process
The report from the Polícia Judiciária that led to the archiving of the process on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and the book by Gonçalo Amaral: “Maddie: The truth of the lie” have differences, but they also coincide. ‘PortugalDiário’ offers you information about some of the items in both documents.
Time of the facts:
PJ’s report: The alert about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the moment when Kate McCann announces that Maddie was abducted, occurred, according to the data that was collected by the PJ, between 10.00 and 10.10 p.m. on the evening of the 3rd of May. But the same report refers that “the facts”, according to witness statements, took place between 9.05 and 10.00 p.m.
Book: In the book from the former inspector of the Polícia Judiciária, who coordinated the investigation during six months, it is referred that: “The discussion within the investigation team, including the English colleagues, was objective and allowed for an important conclusion: the alarm about the disappearance could not have been given at 10 p.m. It happened before that time”. According to Amaral, for the investigation, the time of the facts is located “between 9.30 and 10.00 p.m., based on the testimonies given by employees of the “Tapas” restaurant.
The window
PJ’s report: The report from the Polícia Judiciária refers that “only” fingerprints from Madeleine’s mother were detected on the bedroom window through which, allegedly, the minor disappeared. The document indicates that “dactylar residues” were detected on the window frame.
Book: In the book by the former PJ [agent], the issue of the window and the depositions concerning it, appears as central. According to the book, “on the window, there were no signs of forcing or of gloves, and it had been cleaned the day before, by the employee that had cleaned the apartment. The only fingerprints that were found on it belong to Kate Healy. The sense and the position of the fingers that were imprinted on the window indicate a movement of opening it to the left”.
Book: For Gonçalo Amaral, the contradictions within the group of friends, concerning this point, always reveal that someone is lying: “As someone would end up saying, one part of the solution of this investigation resides on that window. The truth about the window will always deny someone from the group”.
PJ’s report: It should be noted that the doubts about the window are shared with the Polícia Judiciária. The report mentions that the reconstitution of the facts would allow to “clarify extremely important details, among other things”: “The situation concerning the window of the bedroom where Madeleine slept, with the twins, which was open, according to Kate. It became necessary to clarify whether there was a draft, because the movement of curtains and pressure under the bedroom door are mentioned, which would eventually be visible through a reconstitution”.
Part II
Maddie and the Smith family
During the investigation into the Maddie case, thousands of information about sightings of the child on diverse points of the world appeared. Several leads concerning suspicious individuals that were seen in the resort’s surroundings before and on the day of the disappearance were also followed. But only two reports about the evening of the facts reached the police: they both state that a man carrying a child was seen on that evening.
PJ’s report: One of those reports is by Jane Tanner and has been widely reported. The other one, less media-exposed, comes from the Smith family. In the PJ’s report it is said: “The testimony from Mr Smith reporting the sighting of an individual carrying a child, on one of the streets that access the beach, appeared. It was said that the child could be Madeleine McCann, although it was never peremptorily stated. Some time later, this witness alleged that by the way [the manner in which he held one of the twins], the individual that carried the child could be Gerald McCann, and this was concluded when he saw him walk down the stairs from an airplane. But it was established that at the time that was mentioned, Gerald was sitting at the table, in the Tapas restaurant”. The document does not refer the source of that information, whether it came from the group of friends, or from the employees at the “Tapas”.
Book: According to Gonçalo Amaral, this family came to Portugal, on the 26th of May, in a secret operation, that brought the patriarch and two of his adult children into the PJ in Portimão. They all confirmed that they saw a man carrying a child and the exact spot where they met, at around 10 p.m. The patriarch said it was not Murat, because he knew him, and failed to identify anyone in particular. A situation that changes once the McCanns arrive in England.
Book: “In late September, we find out about that recognition from the Smith family” (…) “We made a decision, to start a logistics operation in order to bring the family witnesses to Portugal again”. (…) “But the Smiths did not come. The Portuguese police, after I leave, changes its mind and opts to request their inquiry through the use of an international cooperation mechanism”. It should be noted that Amaral makes no reference to what had been established by the PJ, that is, that at that time, Maddie’s father was at the “Tapas” restaurant.
Forensics reports
PJ’s report: Concerning the analyses that were sent to England, with residues that were detected by the dogs, in the apartment and in the rented vehicle, the PJ’s report states that the “final results did not corroborate the canine markings, that is, cellular material was collected that failed to be identified as belonging to someone specific, and it was not even possible to establish the quality of that material”, namely “whether it could be blood or any other type of bodily fluid”.
PJ’s report: Nevertheless, the report recognizes that “in a first scientific approach, the possibility of a compatibility between Madeleine’s DNA profile and some of the residues that were collected (among which those that existed in the Renault Scenic vehicle that was rented by the McCanns, were in great quantity), was apparent”.
Book: The PJ’s report does not say anything else about the tests. Gonçalo Amaral questions the results from the analyses, but in the end recognizes that they are not evidence, but merely indicia: “The [female] dog signaled the presence of human blood in places where the [male] dog marked cadaver odour (…) Those bodily fluids, according to the FSS [English lab], contained components from Madeleine’s DNA profile”. “At that moment, those results do not constitute material evidence, but mere indicia, which should be added to the indicia that had already been established”.
Book: Less clear would be the analyses on the hair that was found in the car boot. The tests that were performed on those did not arrive at the same time as the rest. Until the date when Amaral left, there were no results. The hair samples were requested from the lab, but it “didn’t want to let go” of the samples.
Part III
What is not in the PJ’s report
The book by Gonçalo Amaral reports on several details from the investigation which are not included in the final report from the Polícia Judiciária. This fact indicates that they were not deemed relevant for the decision on whether or not to archive the process. But the PJ’s report is only a summary of the whole process, where presumably the facts that are reported by the former coordinator of the investigation can be found, and probably others.
The facts that are described by Gonçalo Amaral that are not present in the report are:
Phone records, calls made and received, from the mobile phones that belong to Kate and Gerry on the evening of the disappearance were reportedly erased.
The information concerning the McCanns that was requested from the English authorities on the day of the disappearance, never arrived.
According to the PJ, the information concerning the debit and credit cards belonging to the couple was never supplied, either.
PJ’s report: loose ends
The PJ’s report concludes that the reconstitution of the facts would be “important”, but could not be carried out due to the refusal from some of the elements of the group. Therefore, the following remains to be clarified:
“The physical, real and effective, proximity between Jane Tanner, Gerald McCann and Jeremy Wilkins, at the moment when the former passed them, and which coincided with the sighting of the supposed suspect, carrying a child. It results, from our understanding, as unusual that neither Gerald McCann nor Jeremy Wilkins saw her, or the alleged abductor, despite the small dimensions of the space”.
“The establishing of a timeline and of the effective checking of the minors that were left alone inside the apartments, given the fact that, believing that said checking was as tight as the witnesses and the arguidos describe it, it would be, to say the least, very difficult that the conditions were reunited for the introduction of an abductor in the residence and the posterior exit of said individual, with the child, namely through a window with little space. It is added that the supposed abductor could only pass that window holding the minor in a different position (vertical) from the one that was visualized by witness Jane Tanner (horizontal)”.
“What happened during the time lapse between 5.30 p.m. and the time at which the disappearance is reported by Kate Healy (at around 10 p.m.)”.
‘PortugalDiário’ reminds you that the process concerning the disappearance of Maddie was archived and that Robert Murat Kate and Gerry McCann stopped being arguidos from the 21st of July onwards. Maddie’s parents have also made it known that they will sue the former PJ employee Gonçalo Amaral following the publication of the book “Maddie: Truth of the Lie”.
Hya!
just pop in to read you all and noticed you were discussing about the scent not being on gerry's clothes.That is a question that I also have asked myself lately. And i found an answer that mjght not be the right one but that seems plausible to me.
That man who was seen by Mr Smith was not Gerry. It might have been the 10th Tapas. By that time Gerry was already in the bar after having checked the children and if the way was safe for that 10th character to carry Madeleine to the beach from wehre she was later picked up. Don't forget the dogs pointed out a place on the beach.carrying a child like he did was not suspicious at all. Then they had almost 40 minutes to phone the police. Inbetween the girl was already taken and there was no problem with the searches.The phone calls on that night were all erased and that one from kate to gerry around 11 pm proves that the other coudn't be there as they were made while the "process" was occuring.
But this is only a theory among many others.
Dyl, I think you haven't read my post on that evening last week just before you have left to meet your friend. Hope you are better :-)
Have You seen this report?
Human remains found on moor where schoolboy's body was buried by Brady and Hindley
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/
article-1039615/Human-remains-
Saddleworth-Moor-schoolboys-body-
buried-Brady-Hindley.html
Marga
Do you remember how Gerry carried Sean out of the plane?
Gerry and Sean
We are talking about dead-scient here! A dead child.
Hypothetic question:
How would you carry "somebody elses" dead child? How would you carry your own dead child? (sorry my hypothetic question.
I find it very strange to believe, that ANYONE can carry a dead child in that posision, unless it is your own.
Hi
Sadly I think the excerpts from Amarals book only indicate what a lot of us have suspectedfrom the outset of this casem this is a massive cover up by our GOvernment and the fact medical records were never supplied although requested, lies about them having no bank cards, no details in fact that were requested provided confirm that, without such interference the police would have ensured their colleagues in Portugal recived these items. That and the Gordon Brown phone calls to the Mccanns and intervening with hsi Portuguese oposite number also make this seem credible. I don't believe there is any seperate British investigation, hope am wrong but the Mccanns are in my opinion home and dry, will never be charged and the press will never dare print anything in this country detrimental re them, for fear of being sued. I think this is the end of the case unless the PJ can find undisptable evidence, which is doubtful from Gerry;s confident challenge tot hem to find the body and prove they killed her....Lizzy
please excuse bad typing in previous message.....lizzy
First of all, Zodiac, thank you. I loved your comment. So much so that it is noe my most recent thread. Hope you don't mind. For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, this is the brilliant and hilarious comment Zodiac posted on my blog. Enjoy it because it really can0t be missed:
----------------------------------------------------------
Zodiac said...
Claudia,
Thanks for the link to The Herald. What I find shocking, imo, regarding that article is, that woman gets paid for writing that tripe!
I read last nights posts on the other thread. Joe, I mentioned on the DE the exact same comment you have made. How would they prove who wrote the posts. We live in an age where computers are hacked all the time. We have a PC and several laptops being used where I post from. I could use any of the laptops here when the PC is not on (that is where the thingy that allows all the laptops access to the Internet is attached) and still get access to the Internet. I could park my car outside someones house or just sit out side in my garden and still get access to the Interenet via some other persons Internet access if they have it on and do not have any security to stop other people using it. I believe this is not against the Law unless there is security to access and some one hacks it. I am in no way computer literate and I know that. When I log on to this blog I click on watch in real time, it is not the location I am from that I see and not the location of my IP address either.
My defence will be:
When I go out I always leave my doors unlocked and sometimes the windows are also left open. I enjoy wining and dining with my friends in another friends back garden approx 100 mts from my house, in fact it is just like sitting in my own back garden I can see the top of the roof of my house from my friend Stu Pidder's garden therefore I believe it is within the bounds of responsible home safety especially as we take it in turn to check on each others homes every 30 mins or so.
I am sure my Insurance Company would have no quibble with that when I need to make a claim if it were ever burgled. Every home owner does it! Although the chances of it being burgled in such circumstances are very rare hence the no need to lock up, imo.
Although there was one incident regarding a laptop in my home, I had gone to do my usual check and discovered my laptop had been moved, used and then replaced. I just knew as soon I entered the house that someone had been using it, the study door was half open, not the way I had left it, the small window to the rear was open, it was closed when I left. I looked at the desk and I could tell from the way the the mouse was sitting on the mat that it had been taken at some point in the evening and then replaced. I went back to Stu Pidder's and finished my wine and Tapas although this did kinda bother me I decided not to let it interfere with my dinner and my social life, my friends are important to me and it was the kind of night we were all into each other so why spoil it.
However with the art of hindsight I think this has been happening over a long period of time, maybe 14-16 months. I decided to mention it to my mates cos it was starting to annoy me that someone could just go into my unlocked home and use my laptop, I mean you do not expect that where we live it is very safe, very quiet and I really did not think for a minute something like that would happen, if I did think that I would never have left the doors unlocked.
Anyway, I was telling my friends my sad news when my closest mate in the whole world, Dolly Dimple said that when she was checking her home (a few months ago, FFS some friend!) she saw a guy walking past my house. She knew he was a local, he had bright orange hair, he was peally whally white, wore a kilt, sipped Whisky from a small flask, was humming 'Donald where's your troosers' and carried bag pipes under his right arm. She thought he was a bit odd because he had something under his left arm wrapped in a blanket with a mouse hanging out, she watched him walk up the street and he hid in a neighbours front garden. She said she walked up and peeped over the hedge to see what he was doing. He was sitting with what she now knows was my laptop, it had my name on it 'Amya Moron' but at the time she just thought someone shared the same name as me. She said he was sitting in the neighbours garden, she could see him clearly as the Streetlamp gave her a clear view, he was laughing like a hyena she could only see some of the words on the screen...3.. and... A...and...rows of pictures, then he was typing a word...Zodi....that was all she could see.
She said she would definately be able to recognize him again as he has a distinctive walk, it looks like he is doing the highland fling, she would recognize him any where despite not being able to see his face.
My witnesses for all the occassions that my laptop was used without my permission are:
Stu Pidder and his partner Ida Nyit.
Patty O'Furniture and her partner Pop Sickle.
Xavier Breath and his partner Sue Cherself.
Dolly Dimple and her partner Hyman Idiot.
And of course not forgetting my PR rep should I need one Boabie Puller.
lizzy:
Hope you are wrong too.
I think it`s a disgrace for your Brit Police Force, if this is true. They have to explain the reason for the delay?
People might think, that UK system is corrupt or hiding something? Pressure from somebody VIP?
Greetings ;-))
Loved Zodiac's defence.
Oh I am so glad I popped in - have only read a few so far but Zodiac- fantastically funny, and thanks to Claudia for re-posting it too:-))
I feel very lucky to have met such a talented bunch of guys!
Viv x
I don't often laugh when logging on here tbh, but Zodiac's rant had me in stitches. Brilliant - well done Zodiac!
Hiya ICTOAN
How are you feeling?
Viv x
Viv
Back to normal, Thank You
I made a quick recovery from te effects of the sedative and was delighted to learn that there was no problems in those areas investigated.
Claudia thanks for re posing that here..
Zodiac bloody wonderful I have a huge smile and am still laughing xxx
Who is Paulo Reis?
Hey Zodiac
You are a star on the 3As now everyone is killing themselves at your post rdc posted it did not include your name though (are you regd there???)...
Brilliant xxx
ICTOAN
I am so pleased you are feeling better and nothing untoward was discovered. You must be feeling very relieved the whole process is over!
Marga
You make an interesting point about was it Gerry that Smith saw. I have always believed that it was and some months back posted a pic on here where he is wearing beige trousers and a dark jacket in a sofa interview he and Kate were giving "bundleman outfit". However, what militates against this of course is that it seems Gerry was back at the table by about 9.30 and seemed to call that woman over deliberately to alibi himself. I think it is right the body was left in the beach area somewhere and picked up by boat by an accomplice. Is this why OB was missing so long. I have a vague recollection of Docmac or someone saying a couple of the male friends of the McCanns were into boating!
As to smell on Gerry's trousers not being detected by the dogs. I think we need to remember the dogs did not pick up the scent until August when they were ransacking the McCanns villa, I think when they went to Huelva, Fatima? Men frequently have their clothes dry cleaned. If a really strong cleaning fluid like triclorethylene was used on his clothes I think it is likely the odour would have been removed. When I first left school I worked in a lab and remember this chemical. It is so powerful it can literally knock you out. You cannot buy it in UK, I wonder if you can buy it in Portugal? Does anyone know, it may have been used in the "clean up" Remember Rebelo's officers in October rolling that chemical looking drum into the apt..Most likely though he probably had those cleaned a few times, just to make sure and I gather the Mcs are pretty cleanly people anyway..
Guys, I'm still ROTFLMAO here. Zodiac was BRILLIANT.
Hi, Viv. This is the kind of thing I had to share with you all. I'm printing it and sending it to my imaginary lawyer. :-)
Ecolab, Paulo reis is a Portuguese investigative journalist. And I great guy too. :-)
Zodiac
http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19874 if you want to read your fans.... xxx
Hi Viv
Did you have a nice break???
xxx
ecolab
I stand to be corrected by others but to the best of my knowledge Paulo Reis is editor of a "Madeleine" Blog called Gazetta Digital which is available in English.
Claudia et ICTOAN:
Thanks both of you. It means the man is reliable. I`ve done a little research myself.
He is actually putting some sort of warning up at his site.:
"29.7.08
UK government agency, blogs and Clarence Mitchell
Financial Times
By Carlos Grande
Published: August 15 2007
UK government agency to monitor blogs
The COI, the UK government’s communications agency, is working on a way to monitor what people say about policy on blogs and internet forums for the media briefings it sends to ministers. A project by the COI’s Media Monitoring Unit is considering how to add blogs to its regular summaries of government coverage in mainstream press or television (...)
Guardian.co.uk
Mark Sweney
Tuesday September 18 2007"
and
Forums under attack, blogs will be next
I think it is damn serius. The McCanns have forever made their name filthy
The McCanns continually threaten to sue for libel the minute anyone suggests their guilt, yet they do not think twice about doing the same to someone else. I ve come to the opinion that even if the McCanns were innocent, I totally dispise this couple, their priorities in life and everything else about them.
ecolab,
I think that Amaral summed up the case by it was more Political than Police, that is saying they were not permitted to police as normal imo, there was political intefrence which took precedence. My brother told me months ago they would never face charges, he is a top Civil Servant, I believe he is right....Lizzy
ICTOAN
You are right re position of carrying a dead body but do not forget that if they had to take her away from the apartment, they wouldn't do it that way. it had to seem a quite normal parent with a sleeping child.
Viv,
you're right. It might have been OB as well.
Zodiac,
brilliant!
OB also fits in Mr Smith's description.
http://images.google.pt/imgres?imgurl=http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_02/p10tapasnine_468x615.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-558982/Tapas-Seven-demanded-private-jet-5-star-hotels-return-Portugal-Maddie-reconstruction-Portuguese-police-claim.html&h=615&w=468&sz=79&hl=pt-BR&start=1&um=1&tbnid=6cDfM8VHR8u1fM:&tbnh=136&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtapas%2Bseven%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dpt-BR%26rlz%3D1T4HPEA_pt-BRPT268PT268%26sa%3DN
Hi all
Thanks Zodiac & Claudia for make me
laught. Zod is brillant.
Ictoan
You also make me laught, i was reading all the posts as usual, when i saw you well and you already can deal with machinery as a klettle.As you said it twice i decided to look on dicionary which device is a kettle :))))))
We need some breaks here, this casr is pryty sad :(((((
Sorry, so many typos
mandarinn
It is all true. Before I was sedated the nurse who prepared me before I was sedated told me that for 24 hours I must not drive, drink alcohol or operate machinery including a kettle.
When I asked her about using the computer, she said not to as I would probably crash it.
ICTONAN
:))))))
Thanks to Zodiac for the best bit of satire i have read in a long time!!
Viv
Are you aware of this judgement as posted on 3A.
Does it re-define libel and slander?
Is it of any great significance for blogs?
Wahoo!!!! Carry on libeling
by CathyD on Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:11 pm
Stick this in your pipe and smoke it, Clarry!!!
From today's "The Register"........... (a bit long, but well worth the read)
The High Court judge who prompted sharp intakes of breath from newspaper editors when he awarded Max Mosley damages last week has now drawn sighs of relief from website owners, by blocking a web forum libel case that could have suffocated the flame wars that often rouse debate.
The hearing before Justice Eady came about when Smith had issued a further 27 writs by April this year. They became subject of a High Court and then a Court of Appeal dispute over what should be disclosed. On 25 April court officials granted a stay on all pending action, citing potential abuse of process. Eady's decision confirmed the block.
The judge said insults thrown around on bulletin boards were "more akin to slander" [than libel]. The distinction is important in defamation law because to successfully sue for slander the claimant must be able to prove quantifiable monetary damage has been caused by a defamatory statement (except under specified circumstances, such as the slander suggests the claimant is unfit to do their job, or makes claims as to the sexual morality of a woman). It's the reason that you wouldn't be successfully sued for calling a politician, say, a "dodgy xxxxxxx" at the pub.
Clem Chambers, CEO of ADFVN said: "A lot of people in bulletin board land will be very happy. This is good news for all websites." He declined to discuss the specifics of the case. Smith's case against ADVFN for operating the bulletin board is on hold until he pays a £25,000 costs award, which given his unemployment, he says he is unable to comply with.
Barbs fired at Smith as a result of his first damages demands, paraphrased in the judgment, including that he was bankrupt, attempting to extort money, had no good reputation to protect, should be ashamed of himself, should grow up and had lost the plot. Noting that "many would be surprised to see any of this made the stuff of libel proceedings," Justice Eady said:
It is necessary to have well in mind the nature of bulletin board communications, which are a relatively recent development. This is central to a proper consideration of all the matters now before the court.
This has been explained in the material before me and is, in any event, nowadays a matter of general knowledge. Particular characteristics which I should have in mind are that they are read by relatively few people, most of whom will share an interest in the subject-matter; they are rather like contributions to a casual conversation (the analogy sometimes being drawn with people chatting in a bar) which people simply note before moving on; they are often uninhibited, casual and ill thought out; those who participate know this and expect a certain amount of repartee or "give and take".
Smith argues that the judgment ignored many more damaging allegations.
Razi Mireskandari, a specialist in media and press law at Simons Muirhead and Burton*, said the judgment showed a "slight acceptance of modern practices" [by libel courts]. Justice Eady was firm that there is no free-for-all online, however. He said: "I would not suggest for a moment that blogging cannot ever form the basis of a legitimate libel claim. I am focusing only on these particular circumstances. It does seem to me appropriate to characterise these claims as totally without merit."
Despite the defeat, Smith vowed to fight on. "I am seeking to vindicate my name. They have damaged my reputation... they have done so with malice," he said. ®
*Disclosure: Mireskandari is retained by The Register.
While the privacy-infringing report of Mosley's orgy cost The News of the World £60,000 and yesterday provoked further libel litigation, Nigel Smith, an unemployed shareholder activist, was told on Friday he is barred from pursuing tens of thousands of pounds from his online critics for "mere vulgar abuse". In his judgment, current top libel beak Mr Justice Eady acknowledged that forum users don't necessarily believe what they write, let alone think about it.
The court imposed a civil restraint order on Smith that bars him from suing posters at ADVFN, a leading investment forum. He had issued 37 sets of libel proceedings against individual users and ADVFN itself.
On Monday, Smith vowed to appeal against the order, claiming the court did not have the right to impose the order and that his human rights were violated by Mr Justice Eady. "He's made me a second class citizen," Smith told The Register, "It's one rule for the rich - Mosley - and one rule for the poor - me."
The case stems from Smith's involvement in a campaign to recover shareholders' investments from the alleged Langbar pump-and-dump fraud that rocked the Alternative Investment Market in 2005. Langbar's activities are currently being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office (more info on the company's website here).
A firestorm was sparked on ADVFN in April last year when Smith, under the username "Anomalous", labelled fellow Langbar thread poster "Wiganer" a "fraudster". Smith alleged that Wiganer was falsely claiming Langbar compensation. Other members leapt to Wiganer's defence and slammed Smith for getting his facts wrong, branding him a "bully", "vindictive", "completely mad" and a "hypocrite".
Believing the statements against him were defamatory and actionable, Smith obtained a court order known as a Norwich Pharmacal that required ADVFN to disclose the IP addresses of the posters. News of the legal offensive spread on the ADVFN boards at the end of April 2007, attracting further criticism.
Commenting on the situation, ADVFN member Russell Watkins critcised Smith. Along with other who weighed into the debate, his name was added to Smith's Pharmacal order. Fearing a cripplingly expensive legal battle, Watkins settled out of court for £5,000 plus £1,000 costs. Following Friday's judgment, he says he now regrets that decision.
Fellow defendant, Michael Tuppen, who did not settle his case and gave evidence to Justice Eady in person, had written on ADVFN: "Anomolus and people like him (Godfrey vs Demon springs to mind) eventually destroy the internet with absurd actions like this. My wipers scraped better things from my car windscreen tonight than this dickhead Anomulus."
I've just turned into a pumpkin so I will bid you all goodnight.
Sleep well, all.
Good posting about libel laws ICTOAN, and it seems good news for bloggers doesn't it. However, you are being a tad bad posting at 2am when on doctor's orders to rest!!!!
Hope you are feeling well today.
Hope there will be some further news soon for us to get our teeth into!!
Stonemaid
Hi Stonemaid
Sorry to correct you. My last posting was at 2 minutes past midnight, hence my pumpkin reference.
I hope Viv will be able to clarify
(Clarrie Fy?) the significance of the judgement.
BBL.
ICTOAN
Sorry ICTOAN, I was not reading the time correctly - too many zeros confused me!! Glad you were not being so bad after all!!
Stonemaid
Hi Hope/ICTOAN,
Thanks for giving me the link to 3 A's yesterday. Your thoughts were very kind ICOTAN.
Glad all is well with ya, that sounds like something big_L would say.
http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19929&p=524138#p524138
Hi Zodiac
You beat me to the punch!
ICOTAN.
Re:Beating you to the punch, is that not amazing reading. I see Claudia has a couple of pics and a heading saying Update: You cant miss this. I hope she has time to post an article/her inerpretation of that prog. Or is that Claudia's holiday destination?
zodiac
Thank you I will have a look at Claudia's blog. She did say at her holiday destination she would have no computer access.
I have been looking at the website of the only truly independent newspaer which although it has a small circulation is read (I am told) by all MP's. I don't have a subscription in being for their closed articles. I think however despite their record of attacking what ever government in power I don't think The "Morning Star" has the financial clout to risk a libel charge levied against them.
With the announcement that the royal tour may be about to stop in ireland, here is the link for those of you who were fortunate enough to have missed clarries appearance the last time he was on the late late show, in that rather fetching open necked black shirt!!! http://www.rte.ie/tv/latelate/av_200805 ... 8,null,228
isis
Couldn't get the link to work on either of my web browsers.
BTW I'm not sure if I am confusing you with someone else who posted on DX. Are you the supporter of Munster Rugby. Apologies if you support one of the other Provinces.
Hi ICTOAN, i have had trouble accessing that too, try this link it may work http://www.rte.ie/tv/latelate/av_20080509.html?2372138,null,228. Yes thats me! A munster supporter all the way. Was in Thomond Park in '78 i think when munster beat the all blacks.
isis
When I lived in France there was in the same street a holiday home of a Limerick man who attended all the Heineken Cup matches all over Europe.
He used to run a pub which closed as it was in a redevelopment area.
ICTOAN, if that link is no good, i posted it on the 3a site yesterday and it comes up in hyperlink so you should be able to view it there http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19850&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
ICTOAN, can you remember the name of the pub by any chance?
Torloghh's Bar
The man is Tony Hannan.
Thanks ICTOAN, not the one i was thinking of, myles breens pub is the one i had in mind, did you get the link to work for you?
Just going to try now. I was disracted by the lovely Barbara Dennerlein displaying her keyboard and foot pedal skills on You tube.
Have taken a look at the 3A's reproduction of Gerry's blog. I simply couldn't face it all - far too much VIP-television-private jets stuff to wade through. However, the following did leap out at me as a scrolled by:
“we had only holiday clothes with us in Portugal”.
Well, that is confirmation that Kate wore her holiday clothes whilst attending to dead patients!!
“Kates parents have been a huge help to us, especially since the twins were born, often driving down to Leicestershire for the weekend to help with the kids. This has been really important when I have been on-call at weekends and Kate would have been left looking after the three of them on her own”
This, then, confirms that Kate could not manage the children on her own, which she had to do at PDL whilst Gerry was playing tennis. Little children are a handful, but Kate appears to have found it all beyond her to cope with.
“Kate and I got the respone we wanted after speaking to the Portuguese ploice today. We are assured that no criticism of our actions on the night Madeline disappeared was intended.”
Surely not!!
Stonemaid
Somewhere on 3A there were photos of Kate wearing black & white check trousers which are thought to be those with the smell of death.
One of the photos appears to be of a child's birthday party in the UK.
Sorry can't give you a link.
Stonemaid, ICTOAN, this is the link with the pics of those pants http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19726
Isis
Thank you.
Thanks Isis and ICTOAN - I have seen the black and white trousers now...there is also a picture of them on the link given by Ecolab (referring to a picture of Gerry carrying Sean off the plane) which can be seen if you scroll to the left. They are shown more fully there and certainly don't appear to be the sort of item a doctor would turn up wearing to work.
It's all gone so quiet now...Claudia is away...Doc is busy and not posting in his usual inimitable way...the silly season is upon us...wish there was something positive for us to get more hope from!!
ICTOAN, you are very welcome, she seems to like those pants.
Isis,
I hope you have got your hat for the Royal Trio's visit!
ICTOAN, its not a hat im planning on wearing !!
Isis
I think you would be better off with a hurley.
ICTOAN, they will never appear on the late late show imo, suspicion and hostility in particular relating to the serial neglect of 3 babies is growing. Mitchell was not too well recieved and the audience asked him a few awkward questions last time. I think the only way these people will appear is if it is a pre-recorded interview.
BTW Thanks I got the link you put on 3A to work.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of this whole affair the McCanns have nothing to be proud of. They lost their daughter and feely admitted to leaving their chilren alone in pursuit of selfish entertainment. It is they who should accept the responsibility for her disappearance. They should not now go around trying to justify their actions as responsible, because clearly they were not by any stretch of imagination.
Hi, guys.
Just wanted to say bye to all of you because I don't know if I'll have enough time tomorrow. Packing and doing all those last minute things.
I'll miss you all. :-)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi all
Sorry I have not been around for a couple of days, the workmen are back in and chaos has resumed.
Claudia..
Enjoy your holiday and chill.
I have just had a quick look at Kate's notes. I have to say they are not thoughts I would be writing when I had just lost my child. In fact, I don't think I would be capable of writing at all.
Zodiac..
I have just read your above post, I cannot stop laughing, what a sense of humour you have :o))) You have cheered me up after a very bad day.
Sorry I am on my own, I have to go now... ICTOAN :o))
Dyl..
I hope I have remembered correctly
HAPPY BIRTHDAY for tomorrow.
xx
Hi Di,
Yes you remember correctly & thank you very much fo the birthday wishes! I have elly with me and we've been down to the river for a paddle this evening. Lovely start to my birthday and ryan and laura are calling me tomorrow lunchtime.x
Marga, thanks also, I never got around to reading back comments from that evening as I got so drunk with my friends I was too embarassed to read back and see what I'd posted & I am very sorry if I missed yours as a result. x
I'm much happier now. Both of the older two have said that they would rather live here, I have finished my thesis, all bar the editing and I now have a new man in my life (through dating direct!!) What more could a girl ask for?? - apart from becomming 40 ;)
Just going to have a read back now.
xx
Dylan
You know what they say is the age that life begins.
Best wishes for tomorrow and I'm glad things are working out for you.
Bye Claudia,
Have a lovely time. We will all miss you too hunny x
Zodiac, I read your post this morning. What a little genius you are dear girl? very, very funny. May I have your permission to copy and paste and fill in the zodiac bits with Dylan? - just in case the police call!!
xx
Cheers ICTOAN,
I truly hope so. It's been a very bad decade for me and an even worse year! Actually I'm not one of these girls (can I stilll call myself that?) that worries about age. I still feel as I did 10 years ago, only with slightly dodgier knees! lol!
How are you feeling now? Have you moved on from the kettle to particle accelerators yet?
xx
My question is why were the McCanns not arrested immediatly?
Couple who left baby locked in boiling hot car at Morrison's face child neglect charges
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 4:18 PM on 30th July 2008
A couple who left a baby in a locked car in a supermarket car park on the hottest day of the year could face child neglect charges.
Police were alerted after passers-by spotted the six-month-old boy in the car, which had all its windows closed.
The incident happened when temperatures in the area were topping 25C (77F).
This comes shortly after two children in France died when their fathers allegedly left them in boiling cars.
A child in Pont-de-Chéruy, France, was left in a Renault car by his parents for about three hours while they went out shopping on Tuesday July 15. The father parked the car and did not leave any windows open.
Temperatures were around 25C (77F), but it is thought they must have reached 45C (113F) in the car. The boy was taken to hospital but he could not be revived.
A week later a man left his three-year-old girl outside his work place in France in a locked car and she died of heatstroke and dehydration. Again, temperatures in the car were though to have reached 45C (113F).
A police spokeswoman said officers attended this latest incident in Sheffield following reports of concern regarding a young baby.
She said: 'The baby was taken to the children's hospital as a matter of precaution but was not admitted.
'Two people were arrested on suspicion of child neglect.
'The pair, who are not from Sheffield and have not been named, have been released on police bail pending further inquiries.'
On Sunday officers broke into the vehicle in Morrison's car park at Halfway, Sheffield, around 1pm and rescued the child who was taken to the city's Children's Hospital for check-ups.
When a 37-year-old man and a 21-year-old woman returned to the car they were arrested on suspicion of child neglect.
An eyewitness said: 'Someone raised the alarm when they saw the baby and an appeal was put out on the supermarket Tannoy.
'Police had to smash one of the car windows to get at the little lad.
'He must have been baking in there , it was such a hot day.
'It was a good thing that the police arrived at the scene so quickly or the situation could have been a lot worse.'
Add your comments View all
Comments (2)
Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add your thoughts below?
I don't agree it is a neglect case because how could TWO of them forgot their child in the car. They did it deliberately. They should be charged of murdering their child.
- Ms D.Lee, Hong Kong, 30/7/2008 14:42
They should face prosecution and their child should be placed into a environment which will be safe. There is no excuse for leaving a child alone! Anything can happen and if people cannot be responsible parents, then they shouldnt be allowed the luxury of having children!
- Abi, Shropshire, 30/7/2008 14:15
dylan
My brain tells me I am still in my early adulthood. The only trouble is my body is a bit sceptical.
As far as recent events go I have progressed to emptying the dishwasher.
Dolores
The couple were obviously not doctors and didn't have political friends.
ICTOAN
Exactly.
Dolores,
I completely agree. God, why do people leave thier babies in cars let alone on hot days? Just so horrible. I do not see where there is any difference either between that and what K&G did. Neglect is neglect no matter how it is perpetrated. They put their children in danger - full stop. And now one of them is no longer with them. I have to agree with stonemaid that this is incredibly frustrating. How on earth did this pair come to gain so much political favour?
Is it their stardom? Is this what this country has come to? Is all we care about these days junk press and Heat magazine? I am disgusted and fed up with the lies and bulls**t that has followed this pair and furious that they, and Mr Pink think we are stupid enough to buy it!
xx
Dylan
These perpetrators should never have become more important than the victim.
ICTOAN - well done you!! Did you need supervision?
Yep - still feel like a kid, but that's just my mental age!
I'm playong cricket tomorrow and hoping I don't mark my birthday by knocking my own bails off again, first bowl! That's how much of an idiot I am!
Do you forsee any justice for Madeleine?
xx
dylan
Dishwasher - No and I was allowed to reload it as well.
Madeleine - Not without some sort of revolution unfortunately.
ICTOAN,
I know, but they did. At least in their own eyes, in clarries eyes, in the eyes of the press, the media and a handfull of disciples, but I have a feeling that the majority of the British public would disagree. When did the British public lose thier voice? That's what frightens me.
xx
Sorry Dolores - that last comment should have been addressed to you.
xx
Have to go now.
BBL xx
Dylan - happy birthday and have a great day. I'm really glad to know that you are feeling a lot better now. I know what horrible decades are like - I have been there and understand.
ICTOAN - I am glad you have graduated to dishwasher duties!! You must be on the mend.
Claudia - have a lovely break away from all of this frustration with the McCanns. After all the effort you have put into translating lately you must be needing a rest.
Zodiac - I am still laughing about the orange haired man, wearing a kilt, with bagpipes under one arm and your computer under the other; lovely touch, having the mouse dangling!!! I especially enjoyed the bit about him laughing like a hyena!!
Yours, in frustration (I lurch between hope and despair - today it is despair)!!
Stonemaid
Stonemaid
With all the threats to free speech being reported we ay have to go back to wearing our tin hats.
On the subject of hats I think you said you are in Gibraltar
If so do you police wear white helmets?
ICTOAN - The Gibraltarian police wear the same uniform as the British police!! We also have red letter boxes and red telephone boxes! There's an M & S and a Morrisons, a BHS, Next and Miss Selfridge to name but some of the familiar shops around town!! I just wish there was a Boots!
I was surfing around the internet just now and was wondering if anybody knew the outcome of the following?
"Solicitor launches private prosecution against the McCanns for child neglect
Last updated at 15:05 15 November 2007
A solicitor has attempted to launch a private prosecution against the parents of Madeleine McCann today on grounds of alleged child neglect.
Anthony Bennett faxed an application for a court summons to magistrates in Gerry and Kate McCann's home county of Leicestershire this morning.
The lawyer, who previously failed in an attempt to bring a private prosecution against entertainer Michael Barrymore over alleged drugs offences on the night of Stuart Lubbock's death, also sent Loughborough Magistrates' Court six pages of 'evidence' to support the summons."
Stonemaid
Dillie, Hope you had a great birthday and glad you are feeling better.
Claudia, you deserve a great holiday after all your hard work translating Goncalo's book. Have a fab time and do not take a laptop with you:-))))
ICTOAN
I think Mr Justice Eady was making the point that he is not going to permit the courts to be clogged up with petty insults and arguments between bloggers which as he says is more akin to petty slander than libel. This man sounds like a serial litigant with 37 actions and such nuisances never find favour with the judges! He is abusing the process of the court which is there for serious cases that merit a High Court Judge, the costs orders should have stopped this man, that is what they are designed to do, but of course he is on the dole and just thinks well I have no assets or money the costs cannot be enforced so I can carry on being a petty nuisance!
Dillie, Hope you had a great birthday and glad you are feeling better.
Claudia, you deserve a great holiday after all your hard work translating Goncalo's book. Have a fab time and do not take a laptop with you:-))))
ICTOAN
I think Mr Justice Eady was making the point that he is not going to permit the courts to be clogged up with petty insults and arguments between bloggers which as he says is more akin to petty slander than libel. This man sounds like a serial litigant with 37 actions and such nuisances never find favour with the judges! He is abusing the process of the court which is there for serious cases that merit a High Court Judge, the costs orders should have stopped this man, that is what they are designed to do, but of course he is on the dole and just thinks well I have no assets or money the costs cannot be enforced so I can carry on being a petty nuisance!
Dillie, Hope you had a great birthday and glad you are feeling better.
Claudia, you deserve a great holiday after all your hard work translating Goncalo's book. Have a fab time and do not take a laptop with you:-))))
ICTOAN
I think Mr Justice Eady was making the point that he is not going to permit the courts to be clogged up with petty insults and arguments between bloggers which as he says is more akin to petty slander than libel. This man sounds like a serial litigant with 37 actions and such nuisances never find favour with the judges! He is abusing the process of the court which is there for serious cases that merit a High Court Judge, the costs orders should have stopped this man, that is what they are designed to do, but of course he is on the dole and just thinks well I have no assets or money the costs cannot be enforced so I can carry on being a petty nuisance!
Yay!!! 40!!!!!
I rang my blind date that I met today, at 11.58pm. He said that since we are seeing each other again on Saturday that he is now, officially, my boyfreind. Can't think of a better 40th present (apart from having Ryan and Laura here as well as Elly) He's 6'2", handsome and a psychologist with two lovely twin boys. Dread to think what he makes of my mind though! :))))))))
A very happy dillie xx
I'm not worried about what I have said online. After all, I have only ever given an opinion. Let them sue me. I don't care, bring it on.....I feel like I can take the world on now - I'm a grown woman!
Viv, I've only been 40 for 37 minutes!
How are you settling back in now? Is your home back as you would want it to be?
xx
Stonemaid,
I think it was a very brave attempt, but I think he lost his case :( - but is still trying :) xx
Has everybody gone to bed??
This can't be right - I may be 40 but not senile enough to be talking to myself just yet!!
If so, goodnight all & sleep well. xx
Happy birthday dyl, 40 is the new 25 !!!
Happy birthday, Dyl.
Enjoy your day! :-)
xxxx
Good Morning Campers
Viv
Thank you for the explanation about the libel/slander case. I thought posters on 3A were getting a bit too excited about it.
Independent story:
'Remains of five youngsters' found at Jersey home
By Rosamond Hutt, PA
Thursday, 31 July 2008
Jersey police have discovered the partial remains of at least five youngsters at Haut de la Garenne, the former children's home at the centre of the island's child abuse investigation, it was revealed.
However, the grim discoveries may not result in a murder inquiry because experts have been unable to pinpoint when the children died, the detective leading the investigation will tell BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
Full text:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/
uk/crime/remains-of-five-youngsters
-found-at-jersey-home-881604.html
Stonemaid
The reason I asked about the helmets is that I live near Brighton (I in fact was born there).
Before the “regional” Sussex Police Force was formed the old County Borough of Brighton had its own Police which was the only one in the UK that had white helmets for the summer.
Upon amalgamation this idea was not continued and the said helmets were sold, I thought to Gibraltar but obviously my memory is playing tricks. Perhaps they were sold to somewhere in the Caribbean.
BTW are you in the same time zone as the UK or the same as Spain?
Re: Anthony Bennet’s case. The magistrates ruled that at the events took place outside the UK they had no jurisdiction. I think murder is the only crime committed abroad that can be tried in a UK court although I am not sure if that applies in Scottish Law. I remember that Viv explained the legal position at the time.
ICTOAN
Interesting posting from MiceAnMen on 3A.
Also, I noticed a question from you the other day on the subject of the WOC, didn't have time to reply. Contrary to what some said, the WOC status was not conferred until the 2nd of Apr, 2008. Quotation from the Judgement: On 2 April 2008 Madeleine became a Ward of this Court, and since that date has remained a Ward. " Link to the McCann solicitors website:
http://www.iflg.uk.com/documents
/Judgement0708.pdf
I always thought this happened on 17th May 2007.
Thanks for the information about the private prosecution everyone, although it is very disappointing news. If the McCanns cannot be taken to court in the UK, because the crimes took place overseas, then what hope is there for justice for Madeleine? The Portuguese don't have enough evidence to stand up in court...so where on earth can the Teflon Twosome be brought to justice?
ICTOAN, yes, we are one hour ahead of the UK. Interesting story about the white helmets!! I wondered what was behind your question! My father's family hailed from Brighton/Hove and I spent many happy holidays there with my grandparents, although I cannot say I remember the white helmets worn by the police.
My daughter has been persuaded, by her many gay uni friends (although she is not of that persuasion herself!) to go to Brighton on Saturday for the Gay Pride event...
Dylan...you are clearly on cloud number nine!!! Long may it last!!
Stonemaid
Dylan,
Happy 40th Birthday to you,
Happy 40th Birthday to you,
Happy Birthday dear Dylan,
Happy 40th Birthday to you!
Hip hip hooray!
Hip hip hooray!
Hope you have a fab 40th Dylan.
I am glad everything is looking good for you.
Zodiac x
Stonemaid
I'm told it is an enjoyable day especially for people a lot younger than me. Many of the participants and followers are not gay so your daughter will not be out of place.
Many festive events happen there especially at weekends.
I tend to prefer to visit Brighton a lot but when it is a little quieter.
Thanks all & Stonemaid, I hope so.
I was so excited last night I couldn't sleep and as a result I'm feeling my age this morning!!
I am still holding out some hope that there will be JFM. I don't believe the Gruesome twosome will get away with it for ever but if they do, they will have to live with their conciences for the rest of their lives, that is, if they have any.
xx
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