Face the cameras and face the music Kate!If their legal adviser is telling them to go back and face the reconstruction then why not accept that advice?
How come Kate is not too emotionally fragile to go back, provided her Arguido status is lifted first? She leaves us in no doubt what causes her fragility.. people being investigated for serious offending quite often feel suicidal, should the Police just leave them alone then? There are consequences to serious offending behaviour and I hope she will not be allowed to avoid those consequences.
Why are friends telling us about Kate's fragile emotional state now, I do not recollect them saying this at the time? Are we being prepared for the fight against them being returned to Portugal to face the music, a European Arrest Warrant can be resisted on the basis of serious health problems. I hope our courts are not as gullible as when the same lawyer represented Pinochet and avoided him being extradited to Spain. He famously lost all his health problems when returning to Chile! I always suspected if all else failed them to try and defend themselves, this would be their fall back position. That will do nothing to clear their names though, will it?
A reinactment of events is an investigative tool used by Police. I would like Clarence Mitchell to explain why he thinks having this televised would help the police in their enquiries! I would also like him to explain why they can only do this if their arguido status is dropped. When is the penny going to drop, I wonder!
Viv x
McCanns asked back to Portugal by Madeleine police for kidnap re-enactmentLast updated at 19:41pm on 8th April 2008
Comments (33) Portuguese police have asked Kate and Gerry McCann to return to Praia da Luz for a reconstruction of the night their daughter Madeleine disappeared.
Detectives want to replicate the events of May 3 when the four-year-old vanished from her parents' holiday apartment in the Algarve.
Friends of the McCanns, who were dining with them at a nearby tapas bar, have also been asked to return along with several other key witnesses.
Scroll down for more ...
Portuguese police have asked Kate and Gerry McCann to return to the Algarve to take part in a reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared
The McCanns, both doctors from Rothley in Leicestershire, are considering the request but sources close to the couple suggest 40-year-old Mrs McCann's “emotional state” may be too fragile.
Officers are planning the reconstruction for 15 or 16 May — a fortnight after the first anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.
As reported in last week, the McCanns are poised for the return following correspondence between Paulo Rebelo, the senior detective leading the investigation and Rogerio Alves, the McCanns' lawyer in Lisbon.
Scroll down for more ...
Interrogation: (clockwise from top left) Fiona Payne, Jane Tanner, Russell O' Brien, Rachael Oldfield
The couple, who deny any involvement in their daughter's disappearance, left Praia da Luz in September after being named as official suspects in the case.
Spokesman Clarence Mitchell said today: “Kate and Gerry welcome the idea of a Crimewatch-style reconstruction which is broadcast on television and will generate more leads and more calls in the search for Madeleine.”
But sources close to the couple pointed out they had suggested just such a reconstruction last May and it was turned down by Portuguese police.
Madeleine McCann has been missing since May 2007There are fears the current request is an excuse to get the McCanns back to Portugal where police will attempt to put more pressure on the pair.
A source said: “There are concerns from some quarters if they go back as to what this reconstruction would achieve if it is not broadcast.
"Kate is concerned about her emotional state to do this. She is quite upset.
“They all want to get through this investigative phase and get themselves cleared and if this helps then fine. But it is always a worry when they don't know what the motives of the police are.”
A legal source close to the couple said today: “They have been advised to come back. They want to clear this up as fast as possible and get on with finding their daughter.”
The reconstruction would involve dozens of people — including the Tapas Seven — enacting the night's events.
They would then be compared with a timeline of evidence compiled from British police interviews with more than 50 people this month.
Comments (33) Portuguese police have asked Kate and Gerry McCann to return to Praia da Luz for a reconstruction of the night their daughter Madeleine disappeared.
Detectives want to replicate the events of May 3 when the four-year-old vanished from her parents' holiday apartment in the Algarve.
Friends of the McCanns, who were dining with them at a nearby tapas bar, have also been asked to return along with several other key witnesses.
Scroll down for more ...
Portuguese police have asked Kate and Gerry McCann to return to the Algarve to take part in a reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared
The McCanns, both doctors from Rothley in Leicestershire, are considering the request but sources close to the couple suggest 40-year-old Mrs McCann's “emotional state” may be too fragile.
Officers are planning the reconstruction for 15 or 16 May — a fortnight after the first anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.
As reported in last week, the McCanns are poised for the return following correspondence between Paulo Rebelo, the senior detective leading the investigation and Rogerio Alves, the McCanns' lawyer in Lisbon.
Scroll down for more ...
Interrogation: (clockwise from top left) Fiona Payne, Jane Tanner, Russell O' Brien, Rachael Oldfield
The couple, who deny any involvement in their daughter's disappearance, left Praia da Luz in September after being named as official suspects in the case.
Spokesman Clarence Mitchell said today: “Kate and Gerry welcome the idea of a Crimewatch-style reconstruction which is broadcast on television and will generate more leads and more calls in the search for Madeleine.”
But sources close to the couple pointed out they had suggested just such a reconstruction last May and it was turned down by Portuguese police.
Madeleine McCann has been missing since May 2007There are fears the current request is an excuse to get the McCanns back to Portugal where police will attempt to put more pressure on the pair.
A source said: “There are concerns from some quarters if they go back as to what this reconstruction would achieve if it is not broadcast.
"Kate is concerned about her emotional state to do this. She is quite upset.
“They all want to get through this investigative phase and get themselves cleared and if this helps then fine. But it is always a worry when they don't know what the motives of the police are.”
A legal source close to the couple said today: “They have been advised to come back. They want to clear this up as fast as possible and get on with finding their daughter.”
The reconstruction would involve dozens of people — including the Tapas Seven — enacting the night's events.
They would then be compared with a timeline of evidence compiled from British police interviews with more than 50 people this month.
29 comments:
Viv,
What do you think of this from 3 A's? I am intrigued.
XX D
My dear friends...
My last post was kind of pessimistic about the future of this case... However, since last Sunday, my compass did a big turn since i was in contact with some friends in Portugal.
Some clarifications:
1 - Paulo Rebelo WAS NOT brought into this case to slow it down and shelve it.
2 - The public prosecutor is not blocking the PJ job, just trying to get it stronger enough to face the McCann's expensive Lawyers, and the highly manipulated false witnesses in court.
3 - There's an on going parallel investigation on the corruption surrounding this case, leaded by the PJ with support from the Spanish and British Police.
4 - Goncalo Amaral will be brought into this case again very soon.
5 - CM will is going down too.
I will explain latter a little better...
Last edited by BeoWulf on Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Some details:
1 - Paulo Rebelo was brought into this case because he's the kind of person that doesn't change his heart biting rate no matter what kind of situation he's facing. He has also a strong experience on dealing with cases involving high profile entities, corruption and specially cases involving children. Yes, he was brought to slow down, not the investigation, but the noise surrounding it. Since they cant give out much information that will cause speculation, "No Information" would cause less speculation.
2 - They know how strong is the cover up, and the support the McCs are getting, and while the PJ is digging to get more evidences and discrepancies, more the team McCann will do to cover up, bringing more chances to commit mistakes and get caught.
3 - The parallel investigation is mostly related to M3, however this brought other corruption lines from the UK which brought the UK Police into this investigation taking lead on some key points.
4 - I don't know why, was just told the he'll be brought again into this case. But i wonder why....
5 - CM has interfered many times in the conduct of justice, and he's also involved in some corruption lines, and his connection with M3 is not recent. Unfortunately for him that did everything to cover and protect others, he'll be on his own.
This will take time... First Justice for Mady, then down with the criminal supporters.
(This is his response to another poster,who asked where he got his info from)
What i POSTED is not a secret. Just because you don't read it in your precious Press, doesn't mean it is a secret.
If you read my explanation post, you'll read that this is not something that is under secrecy of justice. I just know the right people to get it...
Just by the way the UK media is taking this case, even a blind can see all the corruption behind it which is shameful. Not only the media, but also the forums closed, websites closed, news in the press websites being removed minutes after they get published, EVEN GOOGLE CACHED pages, etc. Just by knowing what would take to get google removing cached pages, and because they even get it in a matter of minutes, i can see how powerful is the corrupting machine behind all this.
3 - Again, i said its not a secret, but even if it was, since i'm not in Portugal or UK, the best way for me to get the news about this case is through the links posted in this forum, this way i don't need to be checking all media websites. So... DON'T JUDGE ME JUST BECAUSE I POST IN FORUMS.
Hiya Dolores
I think it is interesting speculation by a poster on 3 As who likes to give the impression he knows more than he possibly could do!
Viv x
Viv,
They welcome a Crimewatch-style reconstruction because as I said before,they would be in control of their version of what happened on May 3rd and this would reach the gullible.
It would generate all the calls and leads as CM puts it,only to delay the inevitable IMO,as I think that most people have their eyes wide open now.
And as far as K's convienent'emotional state' is concerned. surely she would be examined by physiciatrists if that is the case.
XX D
Hiya Dolores
Just looked back in but dont expect much at 4 am other than the usual barmy Daisy (Calcite I think) who just keeps being deleted.
I think you are spot on, Clarence has a similar personality style to Gerry and does appear to think that if they keep demanding their own agenda long enough somehow they will get it. They are not going to get the chance to put their own reonstruction on TV and waste yet more police time. I am sure we all resent taxpayers money being indefinitely squandered in this way, whilst, as you say they continue to delay the inevitable.
Yes, if Kate via her solicitors does try to suggest she is too unwell to go, she will have to undergo psychiatric examination. It is entirely understandable she feels unwell, all criminals in her position do. I do not think that will stop her facing what sooner or later she knows, like we all do, she must face, for what she or perhaps her husband did to Madeleine. One of them is a killer IMO, I think it is likely it is her, the other one is a serious criminal too for aiding and abetting, perverting the course of justice and disposing of little Madeleine in the most brutal and self-serving way. Then there is the serious issue of them taking money from the public and the Daily Express under false pretences - fraud. There is no escape from the consequences of their wicked behaviour.
Actually if she was really poorly she would not be well enough to go on this trip to Brussels. People can be very good at "predicting" they will be ill on some future date, if it is something they really do not wish to face!
Exactly, this is what I am thinking.
Isn't she fragile for the Euro Parliament?
I think they are scared.
The arrest warrant is easily executed.
She will be going to another Euro country not in the jungle.
lizzy suggested that I post this article from FROM MY BIG DESK here, which I had previously replicated on The Three Arguidos Forum along with the original source. She thought that it would be of interest to your posters too.
_________________________________________________
I recently came across this excellent article on a blog, entitled
http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/2008/ ... thing.html
which I would like to publicise here, as it is very relevant to this OP. Just WHY is Gerry McCann not working with MISSING CHILDREN EUROPE, if it is an affiliate of NCMEC and ICMEC? WHY is he denying the existence of such an organisation already in Europe addressing the issue of international abductions?
News From My Big Desk
Monday, 14 January 2008
Gerry McCann; here's another funny thing!
Well, Gerry there are lots of funny things about the story of how your daughter came to disappear on May 3rd, 2007. I'm not going to ask you about any of those at the moment. I'm just going to concentrate here on your comparison of the ways in which missing children cases are dealt with in the US and in Europe. To quote from the recent entry in your blog.
"Clearly Europe has a lot to learn from the US and there has to be change in practice and legislation about how missing children are investigated. We will continue to campaign to effect change in Europe, in the hope that it will become a safer place for our children."
Leaving aside for the moment your comment about a safer place for our children, if you want to campaign for change in Europe, why not support an organisation that already exists and is campaigning for a Europe-wide approach to the problem? You really didn't need to go jetting off to the US. There is already an organisation which is affiliated to the Washington organisation which you visited.
http://www.missingchildreneurope.eu/
"Mission
Missing Children Europe is the European Federation for Missing and Sexually Exploited Children. Missing Children Europe has 21 member NGOs from 15 countries of the EU. These 21 NGOs work every day to prevent and fight the sexual exploitation of children and assist parents and investigators confronted with the disappearance of a child.
As a platform regrouping these 21 NGOs, Missing Children Europe has as primary goals to:
share good practices among the members, represent the members towards the European institutions, assure a European presence at the International Centre for Missing and Exploited Children in Washington.
The disappearance and sexual exploitation of children is a global phenomenon, which touches an increasingly worrying but undefined number of children. A European and international approach is essential to tackle the problem efficiently."
See Gerry? A European and international approach. And what about this, Gerry?
"Assure a European presence at ICMEC
Missing Children Europe is the regional representative of the global movement of the International Center for Missing and Exploited Children in Washington."
And where this organisation is?
"Where we are
Missing Children Europe represents NGOs from 15 EU Member States: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Romania and the United Kingdom.
The General Secretariat of Missing Children Europe is based in Brussels."
So, even if you had wanted to go to the hub of the enterprise, Brussels is a bit closer to Portugal than is Washington. Missing Children Europe, as you will read above is the regional representative of the international centre based in Washington.
So, Gerry, since there is already a European campaign for Europe-wide change, why do you think it's necessary for you to set up some kind of separate campaign? Why not just support the existing work?
And, oh dear, Gerry! Making Europe a safer place for our children? So, they do things differently in the US, do they when parents leave their children alone in an unlocked apartment? What do they do? Have some kind of alarm system in every home, hotel room, holiday apartment etc, that lets you know when your children, whom you have left to fend for themselves, are being abducted? Maybe a red light flashes on your mobile phone while you're sitting there at dinner sending text messages?
Well, Gerry, just two bits of advice I'd like to share with you.
1) Children are generally much safer when they are not left alone. So, maybe that should be the basis of your campaign.
2) No need for your European campaign. Just contact Missing Children Europe who, I am sure, will appreciate your support, especially as you are so good at fund-raising and you do appear to have contacts in high places.
Here it is again, Gerry, just in case you missed it!
http://www.missingchildreneurope.eu/?q=node
And Gerry, here's some good news for you, a way in which you can help, since you want to campaign for change in Europe. International Missing Children Day, May 25th.
http://www.missingchildreneurope.eu/?q=node/31
Why not give some publicity to this organisation on your site, Gerry, just in case your readers don't know that there is already a Europe-based organisation for missing and exploited children, campaigning for that Europe-Wide approach?
Hello basictruthformaddie
I have not seen you post before, I dont think and welcome.
You make a good point, Portugal is another civilised EU country where her human rights will be respected and she will be treated fairly but you cannot just seek to evade the criminal process once you are in it. If you dont want to be in it, then you have to behave lawfully! They were breaking the law night after night leaving their three little children alone and something terrible could have happened, they knew that. If you behave like an irresponsible criminal rather than a reasonable loving parent then you have to face the consequences. Gerry made the public see red when he suggested it was just like being in his garden. They have never been prepared to deal with this matter responsibly, they have just created a media circus made money out of it and used a spin doctor to trot out sickening rubbish on their behalf. Hardly the way to get sympathy. I used to have some sympathy for Kate but I am afraid I do not now.
Hawkeyes
Thanks very much indeed for that.
I think it raises such an important issue that is should get prominence by a fresh post which I will do. Not only of the existence of competent organisations to deal with this issue but of the disingenuous behaviour of the McCanns in casting around looking for a platform to suggest they are decent parents and sell themselves to the higher bidder bleating on about it.
We would have much preferred to see Kate and Gerry McCann going around in tee shirts saying, never ever leave your tiny tots alone, we lost Maddie because of our stupid behaviour. PLEASE do not make the same mistake. Of course that is not how they lost Maddie though, is it and just like typical serious criminals the last thing they are going to do is take resposibility and actually admit they did anything wrong at all. Instead, again, just like typical criminals they continue to try and cast themselves as the victims. From the very outset Gerry rushed off to the States saying to my complete shock and amazement at the time, he wanted to "focus on the wider political issues". I really never could stand this man!
Viv x
GERRY DID A POWER POINT PRESENTATION ON HIS LAPTOP TO LECTURE MEPS WITH...that will get them out of trouble then! No one with serious mental health problems would be fit to go and do this though, would they Kate?
McCanns To Argue For Child Alert System
Updated:07:44, Wednesday April 09, 2008
The parents of missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann are setting up a dedicated information hotline for missing children that will be available across Europe.
McCanns are heading to BrusselsKate and Gerry McCann and their team are believed to have already reserved the hotline number - 116 000.
It has yet to go live but today the couple are visiting Brussels as part of a campaign to bring in a dedicated alert system for abducted children.
Kate, 40, and Gerry, 39, from Rothley, Leics, recently visited America to see the "Amber" alert system.
This allows police to commandeer the airwaves and television channels in different states if they believe a child has been abducted.
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The system also allows news alerts, often including the registration number of a suspect's vehicle, to be flashed up on digital signs on main roads.
Tomorrow the couple will make a power-point presentation to MEPs at the European Parliament in Brussels, providing them with details about how the system works and the case for introducing it in Europe.
The couple say such a system could have helped find their daughter Madeleine in the crucial hours after she went missing from their apartment in the Portuguese holiday resort of Praia da Luz on May 3 last year.
Madeleine: missing since last MayThe move has received cross-party support in the European Parliament and is being sponsored by five MEPs.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said: "For Kate and Gerry this is an important opportunity to ensure better co-ordination in Europe when a child goes missing to make sure that no other family goes through the anguish that they are continuing to endure.
"They hope to get the support of a majority of the Parliament's MEPs and with such a moral authority they hope that the European Commission will ensure that such a system comes in to being."
For the proposal to be brought forward, it would have to be signed by a majority of the 785 MEPs within three months.
This week Portuguese police asked the couple to return to Praia da Luz to take part in a reconstruction of the events of May 3.
Very good article from The Mirror September confirming PJ always wanted to do a reconstruction, always thought Jane was a liar and top of their list for reinterrogation and apparently, Gerry said no comment all the way through in addition to Kate being told by her solicitor, dont answer! No doubt just how bad the solicitor thought it was, no wonder he advised her at the time she may well be arrested and charged. She will be. Note also the background checks to be done by Leics Police including would it have been dangerous to give Madeleine sedatives? Dr Shipman oversedated his patients...
Exclusive: Brit cops to quiz Kate McCann
Brit police want Kate to answer ALL 40 questions...
Doubt cast on evidence of dogs that smelt death...
Party did NOT drink 15 bottles of wine at bar
Nick Owens and Grant Hodgson in Praia da Luz 16/09/2007
Kate McCann (Getty Images)
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(What's this?)Kate McCann will be quizzed by British detectives within the next 48 hours and will again be asked: Did you kill Madeleine and what did you do with the body?
Kate, already under unimaginable pressure, will be grilled by officers from Leicestershire Police on behalf of Portuguese detectives.
She will face detailed interrogation on the 40 questions put to her by Portuguese police who are convinced she killed Madeleine accidentally, then conspired with husband Gerry to cover up the death by faking the four-year-old's abduction.
Plans for the fresh police interview came on another day of extraordinary developments in which it emerged:
PORTUGUESE police want the couple to return there to take part in a Crimewatch-style reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared.
A TEAM of up to 20 Leicestershire police officers are said to be looking into the McCanns' private lives on behalf of their Portuguese colleagues.
THE inquiry turned dramatically against the McCanns when two British police sniffer dogs detected the scent of death in their holiday apartment
CURTAINS in the flat - said to have had blood on them - were washed after Madeleine's disappearance
GERRY'S brother John insisted the McCanns and their seven friends did NOT get through 15 bottles of wine the night Madeleine vanished as has been claimed.
McCANN pal Jane Tanner's claim to have seen a man walking away with a pyjama-clad child wrapped in a blanket has been categorically ruled out by Portuguese police as mistaken.
The questions Kate is to be asked will include the ones she refused to answer when she was declared an official suspect in the inquiry on September 7, claimed Portuguese paper Jornal de Noticias yesterday.
It reported that Portuguese judge Pedro Daniel Dos Anjos Frios last week gave investigators in the Algarve permission to make the interview request through Europol - the Europewide police organisation.
That interview with British police could take place as soon as Tuesday, the paper reported.
Kate, 39 - who yesterday remained at home in Rothley, Leics, with the family - is understood to have declined to answer a number of questions 10 days ago on the advice of her Portuguese solicitor.
Portuguese police also want their British counterparts to seize the original copy of Kate's diary, in which the mum-of-three allegedly complains that Gerry, also 39, did not do enough to help her with boisterous Madeleine and their twins, Sean and Amelie, two.
The judge is said to have declared the diary "potential evidence" on Friday in a meeting with police and prosecutors at Portimao court.
Portuguese police made photocopies of the diary while the McCanns were in Portugal in the hope of finding clues about Kate's state of mind.
Unbelievably, Portuguese police now want the McCanns and their group of friends to fly back to Praia da Luz to enable the reconstruction to take place.
Investigators want Kate and Gerry to take part in or advise police on their movements as the event is staged.
It would be filmed and distributed to TV stations in an attempt to jog memories and, possibly, put still more pressure on the couple.
Police are now said to be planning new searches guided by mobile phone satellite technology.
It has enabled them to pinpoint where the McCanns and their friends were from calls they made to each other the night Madeleine disappeared.
The new searches are expected to focus on the McCanns' Algarve holiday complex, The Ocean Club, and the area leading to the sea.
Other searches are thought to be planned in a forested area north of the town of Lagos near to where the McCanns were staying.
Meanwhile, the Sunday Mirror has learned of the dramatic moment which led to Portuguese police turning on the McCanns.
It came when springer spaniels Eddie and Keela - loaned by South Yorkshire Police in early August, 13 weeks after Madeleine vanished - picked up the scent of a corpse in the McCann holiday apartment.
Sniffer dogs allegedly "smelt death" on Kate's trousers - explained by her friends as due to her work as a GP.
But friends of the McCanns were dismissive of the revelations - saying the evidence would be inadmissible in court because it was not corroborated and the scent the dogs were following could have been anyone's.
One friend said: "The police change their tune every day and feed information left, right and centre to try and smear Gerry and Kate. It is quite appalling and distracts attention from the search for Madeleine."
It has also been alleged that curtains behind the sofa had traces of blood which were found to have been washed when they were taken away and analysed.
The dog evidence - combined with the finding of particles of Madeleine's DNA and hair in the McCanns' hire car - led to police declaring Gerry and Kate official suspects.
A police incident room is now in place in Leicester where up to 20 officers are said to be following up on requests from their Portuguese counterparts.
Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has also spoken to the Chief Constable of Leicestershire, Matt Baggott, twice in the past fortnight about developments in the case.
Our source said: "The police have assured the Home Secretary that the evidence the Portuguese police are gathering is legitimate and the investigation is progressing.
"The British police and the Portuguese are working very much hand in hand each day."
He added: "The Portuguese have told British police that Kate's diary shows she had trouble controlling the children. British officers are therefore being asked to look into Kate's background to see if she had any history of depression or if there are any signs she has struggled to cope with looking after her kids."
This has enraged the McCann family, who say Kate is a brilliant and calm mum.
The source said: "The police have also been asked to locate Kate and Gerry's medical records to see if there are any potential hereditary health conditions which would make it dangerous for Maddy to be given a sedative.
"Officers are being asked to check up on statements given by friends of the McCanns because they are not positive the timings they have been given are right. It is likely many friends will be asked to give new statements within the next few days."
The source explained: "Gerry has answered no comment to every question he has been asked and the view among the Portuguese Police is that he and Kate must respond to a number of unanswered questions."
Meanwhile, sources in Portugal agree the McCanns' friends, including Jane Tanner, also face a second round of questioning in the next few weeks.
Last night, Jane was reported to be at the top of the police reinterrogation list.
Detectives are said to have concluded that information she gave them about seeing a man running away from the McCanns' apartment with a pyjama-clad child in a blanket, was false.
The information formed the basis of a police e-fit. However, there is no suggestion the McCanns' friend was deliberately lying.
And last night John McCann defended his brother Gerry and sister-in-law in an interview with Portuguese weekly Expresso.
He said the McCanns and their friends drank only "four or five" bottles of wine the night Madeleine disappeared - not the 15 bottles previously reported.
"It has enabled them to pinpoint where the McCanns and their friends were from calls they made to each other the night Madeleine disappeared."
From the above article, strange that when you think Clarence Mitchell just claimed they did not have their phones that night! What a bloody liar!!
Well that's enough from me now, over to you guys when you arrive.
Viv x
The mother of Shannon Matthews (quite rightly in my opinion) has been arrested and will appear in Court today charged with neglect and perverting the course of Justice.
Kate and Gerry McCann who knowingly neglected their three very young children by leaving them alone while they went out drinking with their tapas pals, and who perverted the course of justice by refusing to answer the PJ's questions and then fled Portugal to save their hides, are off on a trip to Brussels to attend a Conference on the Amber Alert system!
What can't speak, can't lie!
To me the above smacks of utter hypocracy - one in Court today and the others allowed to globetrot at will.
I think they are running scared about the reconstruction and that's why Kate has suddenly felt too fragile to go (unless of course she is made the 'star turn' and is on telly!!!
Hi viv and everyone else here, thanks for the welcome.
I have heard that Tanner wasn't very talkative with the police. She could not remember the "abductor".
In short her answers were the typical "I do not remember".
She was one of the witnesses who had approached the PJ in order to change her statement.
Well, she has, there is no abductor.
K & G are out in the cold.
Hiya Nancy
It will be interesting to hear some details later from the news at to what it is Shannon's mum actually did, but clearly the police were able to establish relatively quickly the sum total of her offending which obviously does not extend to homicide.
Kate and Gerry could not have been just charged with neglect and perverting the course of justice. The prosecution have to bring their case all in one go and I do not think they will be charged with neglect because there are far more serious charges. Generally in the UK the police only proceed with the more serious charges from any given set of facts. This is because the more serious charges will get a bigger sentence so proceeding on the less serious ones would be a waste of time because any sentence would just run alongside the sentence for the more serious offence. It is not good sentencing practice to give separate consecutive custodial terms for offending that all stemmed from the same set of facts. Neither can you keep bringing an offender back to court for different charges. It is not really helpful to compare the two cases. The police are looking at a far more serious case with the McCanns, far more intelligent defendants and one where the major piece of evidence little Madeleine's body is missing. I know it is frustrating that they are free to do as they please in the meantime but they will be brought to justice, eventually. We need to remember that in the cases of both Huntley and Shipman they took well over a year and they did have the bodies (well some of them in Shipman's case after exumation).
Viv x
Hiya Basic
I think we need to be wary about claims that the press know about the contents of Jane's interview. I think it is highly unlikely this would be released because it could hamper their investigations, although I am sure it would be very difficult to stop Jane tipping others/the McCanns off about what happened but even so they will not be telling the press, I dont think unless of course loud mouthed Philomena gets to hear, but I think she has been warned by the family to shut up!
Viv x
Hi Viv and all
There are people posting on the newest thread as well as this one.
Have a nice day everyone.
Morning everyone.
Good posts as usual.
Well done.
Hopefully we will know more by the end of the day.
Good morning Viv
Thank you for always interesting articles and posts:)
Quoted from:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2008/04/09/mccanns-re-enact-maddie-kidnapping-86908-20377062/
However, last night, a family friend fumed: "No thought at all appears to have been given to the emotional effect this would have on the parents - and Kate in particular.
"Kate is privately not sure she would be mentally strong enough to walk back into Madeleine's bedroom in the apartment and re-enact her reactions.
"Would a lookalike play the part of Madeleine and how could Kate cope with that?
"She finds the idea deeply distressing."
----
Wonder who this "friend" is?!? He/she can not be aware of Kate being "emotional" strong enough to go jogging, leave her other kids behind to go globetrotting, plan the one year anniversery etc....
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Just read that Shannons mum is on suicide-watch.
Viv, do you think Kate and the twins are proper looked after?
Niki
It is my understanding for what it is worth, that the McCanns will not be asked to take part in a reconstruction, they are being asked to watch a reconstruction and make comments to its accuracy.
We should remember that the police have been given conflicting statements by various witnesses, not just the McCanns and friends but by others. Maybe this reconstruction is a last ditch attempt to find out who is telling the truth. Let everybody confirm where they claim to be at any given time and see if it matches outsiders statements. I know what I mean, but too difficult to explain. eg if the waiter claims to have seen something and it is proven from the angles where people were it was impossible to see, he will get slammed for perverting the course of justice, and if due to the lighting it would have been impossible for JT to give the description she did of bundleman (all of them!!) then ?????
It's a wind up ....
Prosecutor's & PJ's perspective - a two month visit to Britain to obtain all statements required for Court, along with dossier of damning evidence. Prosecutor ruled prime suspects to be re-interviewed on all unanswered questions and questions arising from new evidence. CM also to be interviewed, media manager's involvement in perverting the course of justice and his association with ongoing illegal activities of Metado 3. PJ wanted to interview numerous independent witnesses and Tapas Group :
PJ & Leicester Police ruled out the possibility of abduction last September, evidence being sufficient to arrest the McCanns for the death and disappearance of their daughter. Political intervention stopped it.
POLICE HAVE NOT REQUESTED MCCANNS ATTENDANCE FOR RECONSTRUCTION - SPIN & LIES:
The following independent research is seen as a serious threat to the McCanns - abduction has been academically PROVEN TO BE IMPOSSIBLE : By media manipulation CM is attempting to spin the McCanns out of trouble -
Clarification of the McCann case would have “annoying” consequences
06.04.2008, Maria José Santana
Criminal psychologist Paulo Sargento believes the disappearance of the English girl will not have an ending e says it is “impossible that it was an abduction”
06.04.2008, Maria José Santana
11 months after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the same doubt remains: what really happened to the English girl who was on holiday in Praia da Luz, Algarve? To criminal psychologist Paulo Sargento it’s more than certain that the answer to that question will never be known. In fact, if there was to be an ending, “it could have annoying consequences on a political level.”
Why? “It would have to be understood why was there such a big intervention of the English government and why the Portuguese government allowed it”, Paulo Sargento argued.
The criminal psychologist was in Estarreja the day before yesterday, along with Pedro Gamito, a researcher and lecturer who, in partnership with Paulo Sargento, developed a 3D application which deconstructs the abduction theory.
The simulation travelled the world, through some international tv stations, and was the subject of a talk with the students of the Escola Secundária de Estarreja [high school], at the public library.
Paulo Sargento left the conviction that the most mediatized case of the disappearance of a child “will never have a solution”, despite the fact that, “in front of the given data”, hehighligted, “it is impossible that it was an abduction”.
After proving this very theory, through the 3D simulation mentioned above, Paulo Sargento also pointed to the fact that, in a time when the end of Mari Luz case was known – the body of the Spanish girl ended up by being found recently - , Maddie’s disappearance entered “limbo”.
“Because when one of the children was found dead there was the risk of believing the other child could also be dead”, the criminal psychologist specified, after Pedro Gamito already having noticed that one of Gordon Brown’s the most recognizable spin doctors was involved in the case of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
As he recalled, Clarence Mitchell abandoned the post of consultant to the English Prime Minister to become the McCanns spokesperson.
Next May 3 it will have been, exactly, a year over Maddie’s disappearance, without great developments regarding the case which, Paulo Sargento noted, was already able to “weaken” the Portuguese justice.
“Portugal is going to come out really bad from all this”, the psychologist alerted, referring to the fact that the national head of the PJ had publicly admitted that there was “hastiness” in giving the McCann couple arguido status and that, consequently, the Justice minister assured there were to be “no resignations”.
Sent at: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:49
Hiya Niki
I tend to agree with Gina, Kate's friends claim is dramatic and silly, Kate would not be required to re-enact her reactions, it is about conflicts in where they were and the timings the PJ are interested. On the one hand she claims she wants to find Madeleine but every single chance she gets to co-operate with the police she refuses to do so, including answering the police questions. She is perfectly emotionally strong enought to leave her children again and go on some self serving publicity tour that clearly will not help find Madeleine. How about getting her priorities straight!
I am afraid we all know why she does not want to do that..
Poor Kate, if she really believes Madeleine has been abducted and suffering who knows what at the hands of her abductor/s then she should be putting her abducted daughters feelings/health before her own. She is giving the impression her feelings/health, her needs are more important than her missing child. Ooops she already showed that by her actions on the 3/5/07, IMHO. Unbelievable behaviour, once again. Justice is coming and no amount of pathetic election style spin will stop it, IMHO. Editorial Intelligence take note the public are not as daft as you thought. Your spin might work in elections, how many people actually care about elections a lot less than the amount that care about a little 3 year old girl left with her twin 2 year old siblings alone in a holiday flat while her Doctor parents wined and dined with friends a 100mts away in a Tapas bar, supposedly without a watch and mobile phone, and as a result of the parents actions the child vanished. How these two can attend the Europarl in Brussels and expect the whole of Europe to take them seriously is LUDICROUS. Hope awkward questions are asked, especially as we already have a system in Europe. Will it be another press Q & A interview where they veto the questions.
Hi Viv -
thanks for the answer to my post and the explanation as to why the McCanns are as free as birds and Karen Matthews is locked up and being kept away from her other children.
It does beg the question though as to why the McCanns are allowed to keep their other two children with them when they too could be thought to be at risk!
Surely the possibility that the McCanns could up sticks and disappear to the other ends of the earth - they have the money - should be taken into account too, or do you think they are being closely watched in case of this. The PJ's made them arguidos, but would that legally stop them from disappearing from one of their globe trots!
In that respect don't you think the law is a bit of an ass waiting to get them on a worse offence than neglect and abandonment - I would have thought that getting them in court to answer questions on that would help the police to gain a good impression of whether they are lying and trying to pervert the course of justice!
Obviously the law is the law, and we have to let it take it's course!
If I am wrong then Madeleine please forgive me, but I think Kate and Gerry fear another long, exhaustive questioning process that goes nowhere. Maybe they think that if the news of the world is there watching everything, then it takes the pressure off and ensures everything will be straightforward and above board.
Just thoughts. Like I say, haven't settled on an innocent or guilty verdict yet (other than guilty of child neglect).
Hiya Nancy
NO I dont think the law is a bit of an ass. You cannot put someone in court to test whether they are lying and maybe you would have a better case against them for something worse arising from the same set of facts that would be an extreme abuse of process and very unfair to criminal suspects. There is a golden rule in law, if you want to bring a case you must bring the whole of your case to court, not half of it and then say oh can I come back now with the other half, no way! The police have to do all the investigating to see if they have a case, then they make the appropriate charges, then it goes to court and the police have to prove those charges. Just like Shannon's mum, they investigated her, they threw the book at her and now she will have to go to court and defend those charges, the prosecution will have to prove them, that is the way it has been done for centuries. The one thing is with UK law though at any time prior to trial the prosecution can add further charges or otherwise amend the charges, I am not sure they can in Portugal, they have to get it right first time, hence they do not charge someone and then carry on investigating them as occasionally happens here, they charge them all in one go as well right at the very end of the investigative process.
Hi Viv,
Just logged in now, and have read back on the postings. Some comments (to you and others, v tired from new job so can't remember who said what)
1. Psychiatrists to potentially see if Kate fit to travel to Portugal for recontruction; perhaps Pinochet's extradiction lawyer will try to play the "health" card again:
I do fear that doctors may close ranks. In Ireland, a few short months ago, a consultant psychiatrist, who killed her own 16 year old daughter by drowning her whilst she was having a bath, got off on "insanity". Her fellow Irish psychiatrists all told the court she was in a state of madness, and she got completely off (no sentence, just mental treatment). It would be quite a struggle to kill a 16 year old girl (what a hoffifying experience to be aware that your own mother is trying to murder you, particularly with the cognitive abilities of a 16-year old) , so she would have had time go think again, or to "snap out" of her psychosis. I just hope the medical profession won't side with KAte & Gerry. Though, on second thoughts, as I write, when you see how they have brought the medical profession into disrepute, perhaps they will NOT let her off the hook though surely Mr Pinochet's lawyer will know a corrupt doctor. I know from my own medical connections that a doctor cannot say for sure whether a patient is in pain or not, so I imagine mental pain is even harder to be imperical about.
2. Satalite technology: I am delighted to hear that they are using satalite technology now to help track the Tapas 9 movements.
A friend of mine is a Geographical Information Systems expert, and actually mapped Botswana via computer and satalite technology.
- the satalites orbit the earth every 12 mins or so, so they would be able to get a fair picture the movements of the Tapas 9 that evening.
- for those who fear the Tapas 7 would be too far away from the satalite to be seen, as the Angel Gabriel said, "Fear not". These cameras are so good that they can read the print of a newspaper, so they will well be able to see the characters involved, the mobile phones on the table, and all the watches!
3. Looking at the British Police's swift and firm reaction to Shannon's fake abduction and the perversion of justice there - with no deaths - I'd say the McCanns are quaking in their boots!
4. Why did Portugal allow itself to be pressurised by the British government?
Simple answer: Portugal had the Presidency of the EU. If the Lisbon Treaty was not signed, it would be very embarrassing for the Portugese government, a sign of failure of their presidency. The current President of the EU itself is also Portugese. The UK, in the post-Nice Treaty EU, is now a big player in the power game,only France and Germany's votes have as much weight as their own. Without the support of Britian the Lisbon treaty could have gone belly up. The UK are famously euro-skeptic, and so did clever negotiations, and no doubt leniancy on the McCanns was one of Gordon Brown's trump cards. (When he arrived in Liso to sign the Treaty, it is reported that the McCanns were the first item on his agenda in his private meeting with the Prime Minister of Portugal - ahead of the Treaty itself!) He played the game so well - signing the treaty but turning up late for the "family photo" so that in the future he could not be pointed out as the man who sold Britian's sovereignty.
5. Jane Tanner: even though she is a liar, I do hope its true she told the police that there was no abductor. The McCanns are so selfish - they landed the Tapas 9 into it last May, and then literally abandon these friends who have had their lives ruined out of a sense of loyalty (or fear, as well as fear of their own child neglect).
These McCanns are good at abandonment, eh? Soon they themselves will be abandoned - by the Tapas 9, their families and other friends....
Its all coming out in the wash.
It seems to me to be a story of egos...CM thought he'd get his 15 mins of fame and got so caught up in it, thinking his powers of persuasion could clear them...this sorry saga may have got him in trouble too...yet the common cause is the inflated ego....
I thought you might be interested in this job description of a parent.
Most parents already know this but maybe there are some who should read and learn
JOB DESCRIPTION - PARENT
Long term, team players needed, for challenging permanent work in an, often chaotic environment. Candidates must possess excellent communication and organizational skills and be willing to work variable hours, which will include evenings and weekends and frequent 24 hour shifts on call. Some overnight travel required, including trips to primitive camping sites on rainy weekends and endless sports tournaments in far away cities . Travel expenses not reimbursed. Extensive courier duties also required.
RESPONSIBILITIES
The rest of your life. Must be willing to be hated, at least temporarily, until someone needs £5. Must be willing to bite tongue repeatedly. Also, must possess the physical stamina of a pack mule and be able to go from zero to 60 mph in three seconds flat in case, this time, the screams from the backyard are not someone just crying wolf. Must be willing to face stimulating technical challenges, such as small gadget repair, mysteriously sluggish toilets and stuck zippers. Must screen phone calls, maintain calendars and coordinate production of multiple homework projects. Must have ability to plan and organize social gatherings for clients of all ages and mental outlooks. Must be willing to be indispensable one minute, an embarrassment the next. Must handle assembly and product safety testing of a half million cheap, plastic toys, and battery operated devices. Must always hope for the best but be prepared for the worst. Must assume final, complete accountability for the quality of the end product. Responsibilities also include floor maintenance and house work throughout the facility.
POSSIBILITY FOR ADVANCEMENT & PROMOTION
None. Your job is to remain in the same position for years, without complaining, constantly retraining and updating your skills, so that those in your charge can ultimately surpass you
PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE
None required unfortunately. On-the-job training offered on a continually exhausting basis.
WAGES AND COMPENSATION
Get this! You pay them! Offering frequent raises and bonuses. A balloon payment is due when they turn 18 because of the assumption that university will help them become financially independent. When you die, you give them whatever is left. The oddest thing about this reverse-salary scheme is that you actually enjoy it and wish you could only do more.
BENEFITS
While no health or dental insurance, no pension, no tuition reimbursement, no paid holidays and no stock options are offered; this job supplies limitless opportunities for personal growth and free hugs and kisses for life if you play your cards right.
I'm really glad all is back to normal today. Keep up the good work.
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