A friend emailed this pic of Kate getting some comfort from Mat Oldfield, what do people make of this? does Kate drop the controlled guard she has to put on when ~Gerry is not about and get comfort from someone a little more loving, concerned and human? VivX and thanks Atardi for your post below. xMADDY MOVE
18/04/2008
Related Article
The owner of the holiday flat where Madeleine McCann vanished wants to rent it out, it was claimed yesterday.
Ruth McCann - who is no relation - is said to be asking £19,500 a year from tourists for the Ocean Club property in Praia da Luz, Portugal. The two bedroom flat has been empty since August.
A local paper claimed it will not be available until June because police need it for a reconstruction. Ruth McCann refused to comment.
528 comments:
1 – 200 of 528 Newer› Newest»Good morning:)
Found this article in the Guardian, a well written essay, which is worth reading.:
After the storm - a scarred town tries to forget
Twelve months after the disappearance of the three-year-old few have emerged unscathed
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/19/madeleinemccann.internationalcrime?gusrc=rss&feed=uknews
I'll go back to yesterdays tread to read some posts.
Niki
"We were really into our friends"...
I don't know, but I would imagine this apartment won't be easy let bearing in mind what could possibly have happened there. You would need a pretty strong stomach in my opinion. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!
LGC - Niki - Good morning!
Good comment LGC!
Do you happen to know which of the tapas 7 also left their children in bed while they went out socialising and who actually used a babysitter, if any? Also how many children there were all together.
How odd. I had a prolonged spat with the usual pro suspects when I said that the flat had remained empty and unlet. This from a reliable source. They dug up some article that seemed to dispute the facts. Well, I suppose Ruth McCann would be the one to ask.
Have to go. Be back tonight.
That photo says alot and I tend to agree with Stephen Lawrence's dad that there must be a terrible strain in the McCann's marriage right now with each perhaps blaming the other for what happened.
Niki,
I don't think we have met before but want to say I really appreciated your post about 2345 and that I also respect the way she has contributed to the different foruns.Perhaps later we will hear again from her.
Let me also say that Greek cuisine is fabulous! Cheers.
Nancy,Doc,
this is the first time I see this photo and I find it really touching. I think it is the first time I can see genuine feelings of dispair, friendship and support. This somehow shows Kate in a different way.
Morning Nancy!
I think all the couples had children with them - making 8, according to the reports. Obviously not Diane Webster, Fiona Payne's mother.
Weren't the Paynes the only couple to have a listening device?
I posted a couple of days ago about the rumours of all the kids being put to sleep together in the McCann's apartment.
But basically, they could all be had up for abandoning their children.
(There is a rumour that the McCanns cancelled a sitter for the night of the 3rd with only two hours notice. Odd if so, seeing as they all went out to the tapas bar anyway)...
Have to go for a while - back soon...
Morning Nancy!
According to McCannsfiles the Paynes were the only coupple using a listening advice for their 2 children.
The Oldfield's have one daughter.
O'Brien/ Tanner has 2 children.
All left alone!!!
--
Marga, thank you for your kind words:)
Niki
Ooops, that should be listening device, not advice...
Is it only me or is today's DM article implying the advances in the DNA technology could also explain this case? Without stating it directly you can infer that by the subtile way it is used to compare both cases.
Niki,
you're welcome!
Read you all later!
Cheers!
These excerpts also caught my attention:
"But I told them: 'Don't give me any promises. That way I'll never have to turn round and remind you that you didn't deliver. Just tell me you're doing your best.'
"I also said I didn't want to know any details about what they were doing, for two reasons. Firstly, I didn't want to be put in a position where I could be accused of leaking information that might damage the case.
"Secondly, I didn't want to start getting my hopes up: we've been let down too many times before.
"They said it could take years because they want to make absolutely sure of their case this time. They can't afford any slip-ups because this will be the very last chance. But they were saying the evidence would be airtight because of the new system they're using - these guys won't be able to claim they weren't there."
It makes you think...
Hi Viv,
Got your email and sent you a reply. Don't worry - these things happen all the time with email clients .. bloody internet! LOL Anyway, glad to be on board and thanks for having me :-)
About the photo of Kate - she looks genuinely distressed to me. No posing; no acting for the cameras here. Whatever has gone on in this case, I think it has genuinely affected her. She has gotten very worn and haggard-looking over the past months, and even though I think it's strange (and highly inappropriate) that the McCanns are allowed to go crusading on child safety issues (of all things!), I still feel a measure of sympathy for Kate, as she often looks extremely run down.
Little Grey Cell
Even odder to cancel a babysitter if it is the last night of your holiday and your child has verbally stated that morning that she consciously understood that Mum and Dad ignored her crying the night before.
Not many would go out without their children beside them and even fewer,once their own child has expressed those words that are alleged. At worst you would bring them out in buggies to sleep next to you.
What it says to me is that the McCann's were determined come what may to enjoy their last night socialising and continue the theme of the holiday ie Put their needs first.
Now who knows maybe one of them was reluctant in this policy but went along with it. If so that would be a massive amount of tension to hold onto and if that tension is then mixed with the possibility that they know what happened to Madeleine then the inner guilt and pain would be too much for most.
Indeed I don't think it is too much to believe that because they may know what happened it is only the thought that they may just get away with it, that is holding them together at present.
Look how they started to crumble when called into the policestation and Gerry's look when he left. He couldn't wait to get out of there and hey presto they skittled back to UK despite telling all they would stay and search etc And further to this they simply cannot even answer direct questions about Madeleine in any sort of human way.
The tension of losing a child the way they want us to believe would have come out by now but it hasn't. I suggest (IMO) that is only the thought that they may get away with what possibly happened that is keeping them together.
In other words what I am saying folks is it is never too late to say sorry. It was an accident and I deeply regret what happened afterwards. It got out of control.
If one of the two did that I believe the sympathy would be huge. Of course, take the punishment and move on but most human beings would understand. It is never too late to tell the truth.
One of them may want to do this and the other one may be using all sorts of tactics to stop this.
I think if several of the Tapas were involved in a cover-up over Madeline's disappearance and it is later proved, I think they will never be forgiven by the public. If such a conspiracy exists then it will rank with one of the worst in living memory. There will be no escaping the fallout even if there was a major revelation from one or other individual if such a conspiracy existed. I cannot not see any justification other than self serving for such a conspiracy when it involved the disappearance of a small child.
Morning Baththeory,
You raise many interesting points.
The rumour about cancelling the sitter confuses me somewhat; if they had booked one because they were hauled out of the restaurant on a previous evening, this means they must have done so on the 3rd, and thus Madeleine was presumably still around then. If she wasn't around by 3rd, why book a sitter for the twins - unless you were going to be off the MW site doing something relating to Madeleine as a consequence of the previous night.
If they had booked a sitter for 3rd prior to that day, had they intended to spend their last night in, say, Portimao?
Why book a sitter for just one night of the holiday? They had previously taken the kids to the formal restaurant, but this didn't work, so they then asked to be fed in the Tapas Bar, and from then on they left the children alone in the evenings.
And were all the kids in one apartment? Why? For ease of childcare (huh), or to free up the remaining apartments for some reason?
I agree with Joe; after all these months of playing on public sympathy, getting little old ladies to give them money, laying into the Portuguese police and perverting and obstructing justice, I don't think the public will ever forgive them.
I've written before that I did a course at uni about Political Corruption; it is indeed the case that it's rarely the original misdeed that brings down somebody, it's nearly always the covering up and lying about it that gets them in the end.
Let's suppose the McCanns are culpable towards Madeleine's disappearance. Here we would be dealing with two educated, middle class people who, let's say, damaged their child or worse. They then tried to pass off their own extremely grave mistake as an abduction, wasting police time and money, not to mention defaming them, and then they extorted funds from the public and tried, through professional spin merchants, to divert attention away from their own appalling acts.
In the course of this, they went on the attack, and achieved some success in stifling our right in the UK to freedom of speech.
Most of the above has been premeditated, not done on the spur of the moment. How much of this is forgiveable?
I also don't think that the public - who are generally quite moral as a group - ever forgive child neglectors.
I would love to know what the McCanns hold is over the Tapas 7. Is it just the fact that they are all implicated of child neglect, or something more?
Regarding picture of Kate and Oldfield:
As far as I`m concerned, Kate might as well be cratching her head or looking at the indcomming fundraise figures. Oldfield might even look concerned at the same figures.
17 April - An autentic abduction in Denmark.
5 year old Oliver abducted, out of his mothers car at the carpark, in front of his mother and the daycare center:
http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article996910.ece
The greeving mother:
http://www.bt.dk/article/20080417/KRIMI/80417003
Oliver free after 27 hours and a huge policehunt: Kidnapped by 6 young chinees. Randsome money.
Oliver was sitting bull untill next day with his hands tied behind the back!
Oliver, after the medical examination, carried home to safety by his loving father:
http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article997414.ece
Some emotional pictures, regarding another case, where I never have seen any emotions!
Viv,
Do you have any idea when and where the picture was taken?
LGC,
Excellent post.
I am afraid any sympathy I had for them at the beginning,was soon put aside as they set out to deceive, thousands of people.
It seems self preservation was high on the agenda for the Tapas 9/10.And they had no concern for the pain and anguish they have caused, involving innocent people ie., Father Pachecho,the Morrocan family etc.,
XX D
Hi Viv,
I....ermm feel...ermm a bit ... ermm
flattered.
About the apartment, copied from Niki's article:
"You see the tour buses driving past the house, the tour guides are now using it as a tourist attraction,".
This means an easy way to make money.
I think a couple might be interested.;)
As a matter of fact I thought I read on the DE that they bought the apartment.
By Martin Brunt, Sky News Crime Correspondent
I've tried so hard to avoid it, but I think I'm getting drawn into the McCann conspiracy theories industry.
Weeks ago I asked their man Clarence Mitchell why the apartment from where Madeleine disappeared was registered to an owner called McCann.
I had to pester him for an answer, which only added to my suspicion that it was Gerry and Kate's second home and for some reason they had pretended it was a holiday rental.
We finally nailed it. The place belongs to a Ruth McCann, a teacher in Liverpool (where Kate is from), who inherited it from her late husband.
She told us she was no relation to Madeleine's family and hoped she wouldn't be pestered after my inquiry.
In fact, she was more interested in learning whether she was likely to get compensation from the police who have, at last, kept the apartment as a locked crime scene.
I say all this, in a half-hour programme that's running at Christmas, as an illustration of this strange story in which it's not difficult to get sucked into looking for suspicion where none may exist.
The chance of the McCanns renting a holiday home from someone of the same name is 7,500-to-one.
That also means that there were probably three people called McCann at the Bruce Springsteen concert at the 23,000-seat O2 arena in Greenwich last night.
Now, earlier this year Springsteen contributed to an album raising funds for the homeless. So, too, did Madeleine Peyroux.
And Springsteen once played Lisbon. Aha! Suspicious or what?
You can see where I'm going with this? I'm surprised no-one else has made the connection.
Anyway, I didn't pursue this unbelievable coincidence. I'll leave that to the real conspiracy theorists.
I was too busy trying to work out why the crowd was booing Springsteen after every song, until my son pointed out they were actually shouting "Bruuuuuuuce" in adoration.
Written by Martin, December 20, 2007
Hi and bye Dolores and others,
Going to daughter's football match.
See you all later.
Niki,
So good you are back.
Looking at that picture, I think Kate and Oldfield look more like a compatible couple. I think Kate chose the wrong husband, Oldfield looks much fitter......
Hello Dolores,
Sorry about the delay in replying - had a visitor.
Thanks for your kind comment...do you know, I didn't suspect anything untoward at first, either, although my husband said from the off that he thought there was something amiss. I thought he was being most uncharitable!
I wholeheartedly agree with you that they don't give tuppence for who they tread on to preserve themselves. Horrible, isn't it?
X
Stella,
I was thinking along the same lines...
;)
Hi Viv and all!
That's the kind of picture that (knowing the background/history) makes me sad. Kate (in my eyes) looks absolutely devastated, I'm glad that someone was there for her in that moment.
Too bad/sad that there were photographers as well, I honestly don't like this kind of paparazzi-photos taken on human beings in need.
Though, if the photographer hadn't been there we might never have seen this side of Kate - it seems to me that it's been more of "stiff upper lip" when they've been aware of the photographers.
Ecolab,
Tack för hjälpen häromdagen! (thanks for the help the other day)
I'm so glad that little Oliver was found, his destiny made the front pages here in Sweden as well and after Engla's horrible fate we're very aware of how bad those cases might end.
Hi, Swedish Mum! :-)
Hi Claudia,
Great to see you. I notice that 2345 has been discussed and though I see why people are loyal to her I personally think you did the right thing, especially for Viv's sake - I'm not the one who usually scream "libel!!!" but some of her stuff was a bit strong.
Swedish Mum,
Who knows who took this picture!!Not forgetting that Jon Corner followed them everywhere and photographed or videoed their every move.
Dolores,
that's true, I was probably jumping to conclusions. But she still looks devastated to me.
Swedish Mum, it was the only possible thing to do. That poster just lost it. Believe me.
Claudia,
I do believe you.
Little Grey Cell,
You asked what the McCanns hold could be over the Tapas Seven?
Well, I'm probably going to make everybody yawn here, but personally, I think the hold is SEDATION.
I think the whole of the Tapas Group (inc. the McCanns) were sedating their children on a regular basis, hence, why the McCanns felt so happy to leave Maddy and the twins without a babysitter (why bother with a babysitter if the kids are out cold?) and why the "checking" stories of the Tapas Group all conflict. It's bullshit .. they NEVER checked on those kids!
If it gets out that sedation was a regular practice among these people, then it's the lot of them that could lose their careers and their public reputation - not just the McCanns.
When you think about it (or at least, when I do!) it's too easy - a gaggle of doctors and one anesthetist .. come on!
I saw the McCanns squirm on Portuguese TV when asked if they ever used Calpol. I have been convinced for a long time they they regularly sedated their children.
I can see that this could have lead to accidental death by overdose, but I am more inclined to believe that all it lead to was a very easy abduction for a lucky predator. He (she?) finds three children out cold, alone, in an unlocked hotel room. In other words, Maddy was practically gift wrapped and presented on a silver platter. The McCanns are completely culpable in this - sickeningly so! A parents job is protect their children at all costs - not to make it incredibly easy for others to harm them.
If my sedation theory is correct, then it seems particularly appalling considering that Madeleine had complained to her mother that she had been left alone and crying the night before. Did Kate and Gerry simply drug her up the following evening so that this would not happen again?? To give a perfectly healthy child unnecessary drugs is unforgivable, let alone under these sad circumstances!
I believe Kate and Gerry are genuinely suffering now, and like I say, I don't think they killed Madeleine. However, they made it incredibly easy for somebody else to abduct and kill their daughter, and so it's hard not to conclude that any grief they are suffering now is basically all they deserve.
Whatever happened I do not think that Kate's feet were allowed to touch the ground, I may be doing a disservice to Gerry but IMO she was not allowed to even deal with the loss of her daughter in the first instance, and the press were assembled virtually from the first moment of Madeline's disappearance and has continued to this day. As has been said countless times it is the deliberate manipulation of the media ,the public and the authorities that has rankled over the months, as this manipulation has become so obvious and the total lack of accountability that Mr and Mrs McCann seem to display, everybody is to blame but them and they continue to distance themselves from the own daughters disappearance, even as we all know going to Brussels when the PJ were interviewing their friends. It just does not sit well with our perception of normalcy.
Bianca
Then how do you explain Eddie and Keela's findings?
Swedish Mum, I know you do! :-)
Joe
I agree with you, what are the odds that in very same week they "have" to go to Brussels, the PJ are here interviewing the others?? I personally feel this was a deliberate move. I think they wanted to distance the McCanns from the interviews, made a strong point that Gerry and Kate were not in the batch being questioned, therefore they are no longer the important ones...
LGC,
I often wonder,that without the fund money, what position they would be in now.
XX D
Dolores, they would probably be back to work full time and their world tour would have had to be made short.
See you later| :-)
Claudia,
I wonder mmm.
See you later.:)
xx D
Stella,
Well for a start, I don't know exactly what those findings were, as the results have never been officially published.
As far as I know, all we have to go on is police "leaks" and newspapers stories, and if the Lindy Chamberlain case is anything to go by, leaks and rumor can be very unreliable and misleading, especially when it comes to scientific findings. For example, "blood" that was supposedly found in the Chamberlain car turned out to be paint! Now, I know that that was a long time ago, and science has progressed since then, but still, even in 1980 they could tell blood from paint, so why did they make such a huge mistake? Furthermore, the papers reported this mistake as basically fact over a period of years!
I don't really know what Eddie and Keela found but assuming they DID find DNA of a corpse that is a match to Madeleine, well, obviously, that is extremely suspicious! In fact, you could almost say for certain that Madeleine died in that flat and there's no way I would be foolish enough to argue against this. However, as I say, I wanted it officially declared, brought out into the public arena, etc, before I am willing to believe it.
Bianca
Just in case you have gone off line and pick this up later. For the scent of cadaver to be found in 5a, Madeleine would have had to have died prior to 8 p.m.
No abductor would have stayed there for 2 hours with a dead child.
Gerry would have noticed something at his 9 p.m. check.
Therefore it is physically impossible for an abduction to have taken place.
Our messages just crossed, but as I thought you are not the same Bianca that originally started out on the DE site, that's for sure.
Good day.........
Dolores,
I think they'd be in exactly the same hole, only a bit poorer!!
Stella,
Another thing I want to say is that blood (just regular blood, I don't mean the DNA of a corpse!) can get further than people think, much quicker than people think!
I have seen it for myself. An accident involving a friend of my child's that, though it was relatively nasty, still didn't seem to warrant the amount of blood I found and WHERE I found it, long after I thought I'd cleaned it all up.
This child cut their fingers - rather a nasty cut - but what freaked me out was the tiny blood-spots on the walls and floor, in places where the child didn't even go! To this day, I don't really understand it, but all I can conclude is that somehow, the blood splattered, even though the injury didn't seem severe enough to warrant this happening.
It's possible (and I am certainly not claiming this as fact) that Madeleine injured herself in that apartment, just a relatively mundane childhood injury, and that this is the DNA and the blood spots that the sniffer dogs found in the apartment. Maybe THIS is what was a "match to Madeleine", whereas the DNA found that was from a corpse is still in contention as to who it belongs to (horrible as it is to discuss), hence, why the McCanns have not yet been arrested. I'm thinking if the DNA of a corpse was found to be a definite match to Madeleine, no questions asked, then the McCanns would have been in jail long ago.
Bianca,
I see what you mean about the sedation, but when you think about it, by not owning up to sedating their children (whatever the dire consequences might be for them vis a vis losing their jobs and so on), the Lovely Friends have got themselves tied up in aiding and abetting, perverting the course of justice and all the rest of it.
Personally, I discounted an abductor long ago for many reasons: primarily, because they would appear to have been of alien extraction (probably from Planet Mitchell) not to have left any evidence whatsoever of themselves.
I agree with your thoughts that sedation seems likely to have been a regular occurrence, though.
But why would an abductor only take Madeleine? Why, if she really was abducted, did the McCanns insist on releasing pictures of her eye defect, when any abductor would have disposed of her straight away? Were they not really concerned for her life in this event? What about the evidence of the dogs?
I don't like to believe that Kate and Gerry and their lovely friends are involved in something so macabre, but I'm afraid it's the only thing that makes sense to me at this point.
Bianca
With all the "so called" checks being made by the other Tapas twats checking on the McCann children, how could the PJ be sure who was responsible? Why should the PJ jump in now and arrest 2 people involved, when given enough time to do a proper investigation it may turn up that there are 5 people involved and therefore when it goes to court, each and everyone of them will get what's coming to them. What's the rush?
Stella,
What you have said is probably true, but like I have said, I am not willing to accept that corpse DNA belonging to Maddy was found until the findings are made official.
By the way, what is wrong with that? Why does that suddenly make me the McCann-lover-from-hell or "not the same Bianca from DE"? All I am doing is trying to be balanced and objective when it comes to the more morbid and sensationalist allegations regarding this case. It is easy to get swept up in murder theories and intrigue and all I am trying to do is stay rational, yet open-minded.
Gosh .. could I MAKE it any clearer that I am not a McCann lover and that their child neglect (and possible sedation) makes me sick?? I don't think I could, so why are you trying to paint me as some kind of an impostor, or a defector??
Hello All
Now we are in April surley the books fromt the fund will have to be audited and as a limited company you should be able to get a credit report from a company such as equafax which breaks down in detail things like highest paid Director etc etc.... Unless the end of their finacial year is in May but a year on these records should soon be available for anyone who wants to pay to have a look at them....
xxx
Hello Bianca
What time is it where you are???
xxx
Bianca
Until a relative of someone who died in apartment 5a comes forward and proves that their dead relative was removed from that apartment, it is obvious that the only other unaccounted person is Madeliene. It's not rocket science really, so it must be her cadaver that was found. After all it was Keela who found the DNA samples, sent in after Eddie.
Eddie and Keela's work is flawless. Look what they found in Jersey.
Hi Hope
A very good question, one must be very tired at this time of the morning?
Bianca,
These things take such a huge amount of time, and I believe that if there was no evidence against the McCanns, they would not still be arguidos now, nor would the PJ have come over to the UK last week.
This is such a complex case with so many different aspects - and so many people involved with it - that the collating of all the information and writing up of it into the required documentation so that charges can be brought is more than usually time-consuming.
Add to this the undoubted political interference, and the complications of investigating and charging people who reside in another country, and it's no wonder that charges have not yet been laid.
And having themselves remarked on the seeming logistical 'haste' with which the McCanns were made arguidos (which led to them fleeing Portugal), the Portuguese police do not now want to act further before they are totally ready to present a watertight case.
Viv posted the other day that it is not unusual for a case WITHOUT all these extra complications to take months or longer to bring to court, so I think the PJ are doing a brilliant job in the face of everything they've had to contend with.
Claudia (if you're still here),
I found today's article in the Guardian really interesting and - as Niki said - well written. I'm interested in hearing what you (and if possible Alsabella) think of it.
Hi all,
Viv,
Thanks for the invite.
The apartment being difficult to let. I do not think that the person who owns the flat will lose out. There will be TV companies paying a fortune to use the flat for re-enactments for films, documentaries etc. Whatever reveunue has been lost this past year will be made up in the future.
I have never believed the abduction theory at first I thought I was being cynical and really hoped to be proved wrong, still do hope I am proved wrong.
Bianca,
If a corpse was disposed of. Do you have any theories as to how this could be possible?
Hello Stella
I think Bianca is just trying to keep an open mind and from reading her posts she certainly is not for what they did by leaving the children alone...
I believe what I have read and do not believe the parents have said (they are hiding something) but still have the daft soppy side of me who would like to see Madeleine come home safe and unharmed not likely at all but it is a thought...
If she is really missing then the parents IMHO have created such a song and dance and behaved in such a strange way (especialy by hiring fraud detectives to find a missing child)and by not answering questions or being willing to go back to do a reconstruction (but are strong enough for a press call re Amber Alert) make themselves look very guilty and the release of the crying story if not from the PJ why was that not in their statement in the first place if they thought it was important to tell Hogan surley the PJ should have been told...
Grrrrrrr poor child did not stand a chance yet I still hold out imposible hope that I am wrong but know it is not likely...
xxx
Hope
As far as I know a new company can file for a 6 month extension on their first accounting year making it 18 months later. So I guess we will not be able to see anything until after November? That is if there is ever anything filed to be seen?
Hi Hope,
That's an excellent point about the books - I'd forgotten that!
Ooo!!!
Stella
I did not realise a new company could do this... Hopefully in another 6 months we will all know what is what xxx
Bianca
With all the "so called" checks being made by the other Tapas twats checking on the McCann children, how could the PJ be sure who was responsible? Why should the PJ jump in now and arrest 2 people involved, when given enough time to do a proper investigation it may turn up that there are 5 people involved and therefore when it goes to court, each and everyone of them will get what's coming to them. What's the rush?
Saturday, 19 April 2008 15:13:00 o'clock BST - [QUOTING STELLA]
=======================================================
Stella,
I am not saying the PJ are wrong or that they are doing their job incorrectly. All I'm saying is that PERSONALLY, I don't want to jump to any conclusions regarding the (possible) death of Madeleine McCann until we in the public know that what we are getting is the facts (about DNA, about blood, about the "wheel-well" .. the lot!). I am Australian and as I say, followed the Chamberlain case for years (along with the rest of my country). It started when I was a little kid and so I basically "grew up" with it. I saw so many of the so-called scientific "findings" get eventually proved as not only misguided, but completely and utterly wrong! Like the McCanns, the Chamberlains were insanely negligent with their children and made their daughter Azaria incredibly vulnerable to what eventually befell her (i.e., being taken by a dingo). However, they were not murderers, and it is important to keep that in mind.
This doesn't mean I am down on the PJ or think they are incompetent or any of those other "Pro" things. All it means is that like anyone else in the general public, all I know for sure is that the McCanns neglected (horribly so) their three children. What I DON'T know for sure, is the in's and out's of any scientific findings pertaining to this case.
Hi LGC
Stella says it may be another 6 months but they cant hide them forever and it would be intresting to know where all the money went...
Non of my business as I did not give but it would be good to know if the directors are being paid...
xxx
I have to go and collect my daughter see you all in a bit xxx
Hey Hope4Truth,
How are you? It's a quarter to one (in the morning) where I am now!
P.S. Have you visited my blog yet (Bee's Hive)? I'm sure it probably seems quite dull compared to this one, but you're more than welcome to have a little look-see.
:-)
Hi H4T,
Hope you are feeling fit after your holiday. Did you have chips?
I also would like (hope) to see this little girl being found. Although given the circumstances regarding Shannon being found, I wonder what would happen to Madeleine. If found would she be returned to PT due the Police still investigating a live on going case. Would she be taken into care in PT? Shannon was missing for 24 days and as far as we know did not suffer. M has been missing for nearly and year and could be suffering very badly if still alive, her disappearance was made possible due to her parents neglect, surely they are culpable? I do not think if M is still alive and found it will be simply a case of M getting sent back to Rothley and the Mac's all live happily ever after.
Bianca -
I tried to find your blog but it wouldn't come up. Can you let me have the full website address please. Thanks
Nancy x
Hi again Hope,
Thank you for saying that. YES .. I AM just trying to keep an open mind, and yes, I DO despise the McCanns for their neglect.
I also find it very suspicious (not to mention unfair) that the McCanns have avoided this latest round of police questioning. However, I believe what they are really scared of is it coming out about the sedation. If this comes out, it could be more damaging than people think.
Thanks again :-)
Bianca
Well, well, well. Yet another old DE tactic, cutting and pasting previous posts.
Viv/Claudia
I am no longer going to engage with this poster as I believe they have signed up for professional reasons. You might just want to keep a close eye on this one....
Hey Nancy - no probs:
beeshive2008@blogspot.com
Like I say, it's pretty infantile and dull compared to this blog. I don't have the info that Viv has and generally don't get on my computer until late at night. Still, I've had a few posters, and some of the discussions have been very interesting. You are more than welcome to visit :-)
Hi Zodiac!
Good to see you've landed safely. :)
I think that if Madeleine turns up, she and the twins will be taken into care because she will have gone missing as a direct consequence of her parents' neglect.
There is one other possibility, however, alluded to here a few days ago - that she was given away to someone, with the resulting abduction malarky meant to cover up such a scenario; the only thing to have 'gone wrong' with it being the huge publicity it attracted.
Not sure I go for this one, myself.
LGC
I would imagine that Social Services have been keeping a very close watch on the twins.
xx D
Dolores -
I don't think K&G are having a hard time of it financially! Reading all Gerry's blogs yesteday from day one to date on McCann files it seems they have hardly had time to sit down and eat let alone look after the twins with all their 'appearances' - there is hardly a day gone by that he isn't talking of Kate buying clothes for her media interviews with magazines, tv and the like, and not only in the UK but all over. Their visit to the Pope, then the White House, lunches with dignataries, etc here, there and everywhere - the list is endless! Their feet have not touched the ground. I'm sure their travels and interviews all over the world have brought them in an enormous bounty in fees, so don't worry, they won't be hard up for a bob or two IMO!!
Dolores,
Yes, I agree they will have been doing so...
X
Hi LGC,
Not sure if I could believe that scenario either, Eddie and Keela disprove that for me, if their findings are correct. According to any press details the PJ are working on the theory she died in the apt and was moved. It is just horrible to contemplate the real situation. I keep thinking of the comment the twins are supposed to have made, something along the lines..lets go and play the monster who took M. Well just maybe those little children play with the monster responsible for M and the situation she now finds herself in, IMHO.
Nancy,
When we're told we live in the age of celebrity, we look at people like Jade Goody and Big Brother contestants, don't we?
Who'd have thought that the parents of an abducted child would get to be so famous?!
There have been other instances in the past of people whose children have died or gone missing being newsworthy for a period for starting up an initiative, say - I'm thinking of Diana Lamplugh, for example - but there's been nothing like this before...
Zodiac,
Yes, I'm of the same opinion as you - somehow, Madeleine did not leave that apartment alive.
As to parenting kids, well...
Dolores, Hi
For the sake of the twins I would also hope Social Services have been keeping a close eye on them, but with all the difficulty the PJ have been having with cooperation, I can't help but think Social Services could be also, with checks and things.
Nancy,
Your 16.04pm post speaks volumes.
The pic above maybe she just found out she could not get a much desired Prada handbag, IMHO.
LGC,
Re: sedating and cover-ups of the Tapas 7 ..
Have the Tapas 7 actually been charged with aiding and abetting the McCanns, or perverting the course of justice? I don't think they have. In fact, they have not even been made "arguidi", so I'm thinking they figure that if they play along and continue to answer the PJ's questions, they will only make themselves look LESS suspicious, not more suspicious. After all, the McCanns are the ones refusing to answer police questions, and this makes them look VERY suspicious, and I'm sure the rest of the Tapas Group realise this. Furthermore, I think they (the Tapas 7) want to stay close to the investigation to monitor what is going on (and to make sure it doesn't come out that they were all sedating their children), whereas the McCanns are taking the opposite tack, and are avoiding questioning altogether!
Re: Why did an abductor only take Madeleine?
Sometimes abductions are planned, and sometimes they are random. Given that Madeleine and her family had only been in PDL for six days before she was taken, I would say that this abduction (if it WAS an abduction) falls into the "random" category. A professional pedophile "ring" simply wouldn't have had the time to stake out Madeleine and her family before grabbing her. Furthermore, I'm thinking a professional group would have taken all of the kids, not just one.
I think that given the incredibly negligent situation she was left in, Madeleine was simply taken advantage of by an opportunist kidnapper that saw their opening, took it, and ran. It may sound simplistic, but if you think about it, it would have been all too easy.
LGC -
I have sometimes thought maybe Madeleine is safe and well with someone known to the family. As far as the publicity is concerned, I think that would be part of the plan i.e. the world wide publicity put into motion straight away to make money out of the whole thing.
The reason I don't think that can be true is because of the forensic evidence of the police and the cadaver dogs! It just seems very strange to me that two parents with such a lovely little girl could be so cool about it all and not show signs of absolute dispair and remorse as normal parents would!
So many theories and so many discrepancies when you try to work it out!
I think the most likely answer is that it was an accident, covered up, but again we don't know anything for sure.
I would have thought if Madeleine was abducted someone would have come forward for that huge ransom offered but then the fact that they publicised Madeleine's eye defect probably put paid to that happening for fear of being caught, unless it was a lone paedophile who got rid of her body straight away, but that doesn't add up at all. As you say, there would have been DNA in the apartment from an abductor.
Hi Zodiac, nice to "see" you again. Glad you found your way.
Hi Isis,
Thanks for posting on here to Viv for me.
I think these words on Gerry's blog of the 28th August are very significant:
"Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand - an act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear"
Could he be referring to himself or Kate or even someone else I wonder?
Bianca
I did not know you had one I will have a look xxx
Everyone,
I just thought I'd let you know that Stella is now "refusing to engage with me" (her words) because I stated that I wish to keep an "open mind about the DNA findings of Eddie and Keela."
I did not insult or provoke Stella in any way. I merely gave my honest (current) opinion about this case, but it wasn't to Stella's personal likings, so now, she has "refused to engage" with me and even told Viv and Claudia to "keep an eye on me" (PMSL!)
Is that what this blog has become .. a place where only murder theorists are allowed? I am an "anti-McCann" from way back, but apparently, even I am not "anti" enough for some people on here.
Stella, have you ever thought that it is possible to have a multi-faceted opinion on something, and not simply be a one-sided parrot that spits out the same opinion as everybody else verbatim? Maybe you should consider this possibility some time, for the sake of your own sanity!
Zodiac
Hello yes I had chips and the local shop was being very unfair and had Big Bars of Areo at only £1.00 and I think I bought about 5 (and now I think about it no one else likes Aero so I must have eaten it all)...
I was being relativly active so it has not stuck to my bum (well I am not going to weigh myself anyway)LOL...
How are you xxx
Bianca -
I see where you are coming from but what about the random kidnapper's DNA? He would surely have left plenty of it in the bedroom lifting Madeleine up, opening doors, fingerprints, footprints etc! And what about the forensic and cadaver dogs' evidence - we can't just discount all that can we? The police obviously aren't!
Bianca,
Well, nobody has been charged with anything yet, but if it is found that the McCanns are guilty of something to do with Madeleine's disappearance, and there wasn't an abduction, I should think the friends will have a lot to explain; after all, at least one of them would have perpetuated the myth of an abduction (JT seeing Bundleman, tales of checking the children every so often and so on).
By all accounts, the Friends did not answer the PJs questions...there have been reports of JT 'not remembering' anything last week, because it was all too long ago.
If, as you say,the McCanns were not watched on their holiday, and Madeleine was taken in a random abduction, how is it that somebody passing at that moment knew there were unattended children in that apartment?
They might have been being looked after by one of the MW babysitters, with one of the adults going back into the apartment every so often to reassure any kids still awake that their parents were in the vicinity.
Would an abductor have taken this risk? How would he have known there were ANY children inside?
Random abductions involving people going into buildings on the offchance are extremely rare. It doesn't ring true to me that this is what happened this time - especially as there is no scientific evidence to place them inside the apartment.
Nancy
Was that some kind of subconscious confession?
Nancy,
Abosolutely agree with you!
Nancy,
From G's blog,
"When I was praying I started thinking of all the things that were happening. There were lots and lots of ideas in my head and how we could make things better and I was really feeling very down and not sure which way to proceed. I had this mental image of being in a tunnel and instead of the light at the end of the tunnel being extremely narrow and a distant spot, the light opened up and the tunnel got wider and wider and went in many different directions. I talked to you [Kate] about it and said, ‘I am not prepared to pursue one path. We are going to do everything in our power to influence things.'
---------------
And they have certainly done that.
Don't you think?
Nancy,
I've often thought the same thing about those words of Gerry's...it's a well known psychological phenomenon, too.
Marga -
I saw your earlier post about the photo of Kate - sorry I've been out most of the day so didn't get back. Yes, I agree that Kate certainly looks vulnerable in that photo. And indeed if there was an accident and something terrible happened to Madeleine then that would surely be the reason for that. I don't know when the photo was taken but I should think it was at the time Madeleine disappeared. I must admit that's the only photo I've seen of Kate looking completely lost!
LGC
DO you really think she would be taken into care???
The way no one has been alowed to comment on the terrible way they looked after their children without being accused of being all sorts of horrid things would anyone dare to do this to them.
It looks like Karen Mathews was a bloody awful mother and put up a good show but before we knew this no one was up in arms about Shannon not being returned to her.
I would imagine the same thing happening to Gerry and Kate and the Pros would be hysterical about the awful treatment by SS...
It would be good to think that the child came first as did Shannon all children are equal and deserve to be heard and protected...
Oh BTW has Opus really defected to the 3As I am worried I have not seen him for a while xxx
LGC -
thanks for your post this morning answering my question re the children. I really hadn't realised there were that many between them! It could so easily have been more of them taken if there had been a paedophile gang involved,and they were all in the same bedroom! It just doesn't bear thinking about honestly! Those poor kids, and O'Connor and Tanner's child being sick too!! What responsible parenting from professional people, especially doctors!!!
Hi H4T,
I am well, thanks. I only like peppermint aero. Still have not started my diet. I shall have to try on my outfit for our May celebration to see if it still fits. I cannot stop eating chocolate. Hope my hujars fits into my cream linen trousers! Also hope the weather changes, so I can wear linen.
HI BIANCA,
Dont know if you missed my post to you at 15.36pm.
If a corpse was disposed of, do you have any theories as to how this could be done?
Stella,
There have been many posts on other blogs interpreting Gerry's strange, sometimes curiously detached mode of self-expression.
It is a known thing that if you meet a chef, for example, your brain will naturally choose cooking terms with which to converse wiwth them (i.e. 'we've just cooked up a plan to go to the theatre', and so on).
Linguistics as a subject its own is fascinating, but deciphering the language of those who are under suspicion is very interesting...
:)
Hope,
Yes, I really do think that Madeleine would not be allowed to go home to her parents. For one thing, the SS would come in for some dreadful criticism if they DID allow her to go back to the McCanns!
No, Opus hasn't defected at all - I've seen his cousin sitting atop the 3As site! - he's gone on holiday to Portugal (he said it looked very beautiful from all the pictures, and between you and me, I think he wanted to wander nonchelantly into camera shot when the journalists are reporting on the coming statement the PJ are reputedly about to make.)
I'm expecting a postcard from him soon...
X Little Grey Camerashy
LGC
It is all very fascinating, I do think people unknowingly give so much of their soul away with many comments. If you think about it, if you had to be careful every minute of the day about what you say in public, you would eventually say the wrong thing. Perhpas if you were tired or you are nervous. I have noticed when people are fabricating stories there speech is much slower than usual, it does not flow naturally.
Nancy,
You're very welcome!
Actually, the BBC says it was 8 children, but I thought I had read elsewhere it was 7. Anyway, there were quite a few of them.
Some holiday for the kids, eh? Being looked after by strangers all day, and then left alone at night.
I don't get publically emotional about much (only angry!), but when I think back to my own holidays with my son when he was younger, I couldn't have stood him being looked after by someone else. Makes me feel sick.
Stella,
Exactly! And this could explain why Gerry doesn't like Kate opening her mouth in public or on camera. Pity he isn't as clever as he thinks he is!
There's a site with copies of all Gerry's posts (which, for some reason, he deleted a while ago) - let me find the link...
Stella,
http://www.mccannfiles.com/
If you scroll down the page, all the blogs are listed by date on the left hand side...
Interesting to dip in now and again...
Well, folks,
Must go and cater for some imaginary friends coming over this evening.
Maybe back later on...
Have a good evening, all!
:)
On Rosies blog, claire says viv has been outed on assassins website. Are you around Viv?
LGC
You are probably the right person to ask, do you remember the original recording on a cell phone I think on the bus to the plane. Did someone say something along the lines " well it's o.k. for you, some of us are not going on holiday", or something to suggest someone in the group had to be in Portugal for other reasons?
Also, do you remember in the early days someone saying that someone vanished from the group that night, did anything ever come from that?
Nancy,
If a random abductor DID come into that apartment and take Madeleine (it's just a theory by the way; obviously, I don't know for sure!), then what would the police be looking for exactly?
How would the police be able to tell an abductor's DNA from the DNA of the many other people that would have come in and out of that apartment??
You think hotel staff clean doorknobs? In most hotels, you're lucky if they efficiently clean the cups and saucers (and that's INCLUDING in high-class hotels), let alone doorknobs. I'm thinking a doorknob would be covered in the DNA smears of several different people, so how would the police know which one belonged to an "abductor" and which was simply the DNA of hotel staff and/or previous occupants of the room?
Not only this, but how hard is it to slip on a pair of gloves if you're going to kidnap up a sleeping (heavily sedated) child? I wouldn't have thought this would be too difficult. Neither is watching the apartment for a good half an hour or so before the McCanns went out that night and ascertaining that the kids had been left, sans babysitter, in the hotel room.
Look, a little girl in Australia was recently raped and murdered in the women's toilet of a busy shopping mall. She was shopping with her brother and her dad. They were too embarrassed to take her into the "men's", and too embarassed themselves to go into the "womens". So they let her go (she was about 8) into the women's toilet by herself. They waited and waited, but she never came out again. The child had gone into the toilet and had been accosted, raped and then murdered by a man waiting in one of the cubicles. This animal then went and watched the horror unfold (as captured on the mall's CCTV) from what he thought was a fool-proof vantage point. Thankfully, he was discovered and arrested!
The point I'm making is - this incident was random, but DID require a measure of planning on behalf of the predator. He had no idea that this particular little girl would choose to come into the toilet, however, he did plan to kill A CHILD - just a child - and DID set himself up in the cubicle to wait for his prey. It's possible that an abduction with a similar low-level of planning (i.e, watching the hotel for an hour or so; making sure gloves were used, etc) is what happened to Madeleine McCann.
Just read this on 3 A'S.
Things really are beginning to change. Twice today I have seen a new Advert on Sky about Sky - the first for breaking news etc.
Nothing strange about that, but the shock comes when they show Kate McCann standing outside the PJ Headquarters in Portimao with her lawyer .. and the quite loud voice-over of the commentator saying "KATE MCCANN HAS BEEN DECLARED AN OFFICIAL SUSPECT IN THE DISAPPEARANCE OF HER DAUGHTER MADELEINE."
Now why would SKY-we-love-the=McCanns-NEWS release a new advert for SKY showing something which only serves to REMIND people that Kate McCann is an official suspect.
My reckoning is that something bad for the McCanns is going to happen, and SKY know it is, because the advert is Sky boasting about how they are the best and first with "breaking news" and are showing "Arguidoa Day" now - so that they can say in future - we were the first to break the news that she was a suspect.
Not articulating this very well, but you know what I mean.
Last edited by Payge on Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zodiac
I bet they arn't too pleased (sky)about ITV getting the documentary either.
LGC
Thanks for the link, don't worry about answering that last one if you have to go, there is always another day.
hasta luega.....
Zodiac,
I have thought that if a corpse WAS disposed of, it would have to have been a very efficient job. Remember, Gerry said "find the body and prove we killed her", which, if you believe they DID kill her, sounds like Gerry is pretty certain a body WON'T be found.
I have considered a few things, including the acid baths at Huelva.
However, when I consider the small amount of time the McCanns would have had to do all of this, and how there is no eye-witness accounts of them being anywhere other than at the MW complex around this time, I believe the killing/disposal of the body theory less and less.
Zodiac
I spotted that this morning on Sky and thought the exact same thing. It seems Sky knows what's coming soon and they are trying to gently remind everyone in preparation.
When you loose a child to a unknown faith, you moove closer to your remaining child/children.
What if somthing happends to the remaining child/children, you keep asking yourself?
This human behavoior of overprotection goes on for years towards the remaining child/children! And as a parent, you are never getting rid of that fear that the loss might be repeated!
Take my word for that.
The duck that looses a duckling to the waterrat is gatering her remaining ducklings and she is not letting them out of sight, before they are grownup ducks.
How fast/short after May the 3. were the Mccanns on a tour without the twins? Did Kate lock the twins up, when she ran shouting: They taken her? Within hours they went jogging, gave interwievs and put the twins into the creep. This is why I do`nt beleave in the Mccanns. I`ve seen more emotions with a hyena eating his dead sister.
Ecolab
Very eloquently put, well done and I totally agree.
Dolores -
Another revealing blog and showed just how Gerry's mind was becoming full of the importance their tragic situation was leading to. He certainly does a lot of philosophising in his blogs and shows definite signs of mental stress and as if he is trying to punish himself for something he is feeling guilty about, but knows he can't put into words.
Other times he talks about mundane sort of stuff, like meat and tatties, and his Mum's mashed potatoes the twins enjoyed so much. Perhaps it depends what sort of mood he is in when he writes his blogs.
I've always thought that blogging would be the last thing on a parent's mind following a tragedy such as the disappearance of a child!
He doesn't blog quite so much these days though - you will see many 'no entries' because he is far too busy with other things now, which I have already talked about above!
Zodiac
I wonder if Sky have saved up lots of older footage and reports that they have not previously been allowed to use for such a day.
Bianca -
Thanks for your web address - I'll take a look later. Good luck with it - I hope it goes well for you.
I won't discuss the differences between yourself and Stella, because it wouldn't be good to be seen taking sides. Just to say I hope you can both work out your differences because we want to keep this blog friendly!!
Stella,
Sky: I wonder.
Bianca,
I really do hope I am wrong. I dont think you are the same Bianca as the one on the DE. Not because your opinions differ from mine, your writing style does not seem the same. Anyway much apologies if I am wrong.
Good night everyone, hopefully tomorrow will bring even better things than today.......
Bianca,
You say,how hard is it to slip on gloves if you are going to kidnap a sleeping (heavily sedated)child.
How would an 'abductor know if the child was sedated?
Bianca -
We don't know what DNA the police picked up - I'm sure there was DNA from the tapas friends for example, as they all collected there when Kate found Madeleine to be missing. I don't know if the PJ's took DNA samples from everyone who could have been in the bedroom from the complex either - perhaps someone else could enlighten us on this.
What I was specifically thinking about was the fact that Kate said the abductor must have gone through the window, but nothing was found by the PJ's to substantiate that.
Of course, we all have to wait and see the outcome of the PJ's investigations before anything will become clear.
I don't know exactly what happened to Madeleine any more than anyone else but all I do know is that this couple have never acted like normal parents on the loss or possible abduction of their child indeed they seem to have enhanced their lifestyle over Madeleines disappearance.
You are quite right though - there is no proof yet that K&G harmed Madeleine! It could have been a bad accident that they covered up in panic. She could have wandered off and been picked up by someone, but I don't believe someone took her from the apartment for some reason. Time will tell us all of course!
Ecolab,
I agree that it is crazy that the McCanns would leave their other children in a creche so soon after Madeleine was (supposedly) abducted.
It goes against human nature (or even the nature of other mothers in the animal kingdom) to leave your remaining children vulnerable once one of them has been taken from you.
But remember - these are the sort of people who were prepared to leave their children in an unlocked hotel room in a foreign country in the first place, so we can't really expect them to be "normal", can we?? Obviously, they are bizarre people with bizarre values in life.
And you know, I HAVE seen other behaviour like this (but to a much lesser degree) in my own life. A family we knew had a son that was very ill with a virus. In fact, the doctor had asked him to go into hospital, but the family chose to keep him on heavy anti-biotics and keep him at home. Anyway, one night during his illness, this boy wandered downstairs half asleep, and noticing the balcony door was left unlocked, opened it up and in his delirium, went to sleep on the balcony as he was burning up and the balcony was cooler. Somehow during the night though, he got up to leave again, but misjudged where he was going and toppled off the balcony (which was about a story high) and onto a concrete driveway. His head was smashed to bits, and though he lived, he was never really the same again and only recently stopped speaking with slurred speech.
Now, the question I would ask is - if his parents knew he was that sick and possibly delirious, why did they leave the balcony door unlocked?? To me, this is crazy - unthinkable - yet this family did not even consider it. They are nice people, but simply didn't take into account something most people would think about straight away!
To make matters worse, a few weeks after the accident we went over to this family's house and noticed one of their daughters (who was nine at the time) wasn't home. When we asked where she was, her parents casually told us she was walking the dog. Now, this would have been bad enough at any time of day (a 9 yr old on their own walking a dog) but this was 7 o'clock at night!
Again, this family just didn't seem to "get it", even though I'm sure they didn't mean any harm.
I am not apologising for the McCanns. I never have, and never will like the McCanns, and see their negligence as pre-meditated and based on selfishness - not on random mistakes. However, what I AM saying is that the fact that they left their kids in a creche so soon after Madeleine went missing may just make them stupid (utterly stupid), and not necessarily killers or guilty of manslaughter. Some people are just dumb, you know!
Not the "real" Bianca!
You know, when I used to post at DE, this case was very new and I was running on quite a high emotional level about it and could get rather fiery and worked up. And people used to hassle me for being a hot-head (which admittedly, I advertise myself as) and being too insulting and/or emotional.
Now, however, that the case is almost a year old and I have had time to calm down and think things through a bit more objectively, I am being hassled AGAIN, but this time, for being TOO cool-headed and rational! People are accusing me of not being myself, and trying to paint me as some kind of impostor!
Geez. What do you want from me? You know by now I hugely dislike the McCanns but it's not enough because I don't necessarily accept them as killers.
So unfair!
Nancy,
I know what you are saying, I think any normal grieving parent would be prostrate with grief if anything happened to our children even brushing your teeth would be unimportant.
These are very controlled people we are seeing here.Doctors in general have a different aspect of emotions.IMO
XX D
Bianca,
As I said to you in my last post my thoughts had nothing to do with your new opinion of late. It is your writing style. You make a lot of little spelling mistakes also, ones I believe Bianca would not make. As I also said before sorry if I am wrong.
Nancy,
Thank you for not taking sides. I appreciate it.
However, if the blog doesn't "stay friendly", I'll simply leave. I'm not here to cause trouble, and am not adverse to heated debate (in fact, I rather enjoy it and almost always learn something from it). However, if things descend into a personal slanging match, then I'm happy just to leave.
Remember, all I did was give an opinion on this case. I didn't personally insult or provoke anyone. And in fact, my comments were not even addressed to Stella. Stella simply jumped in on a post that I wrote to somebody else, and because she didn't agree with the opinion expressed in the post, she then accused me of not really being myself, and asked Viv and Claudia to watch me!
In a way, it's just silly, but if it gets any nastier than it has tonight it's probably not worth it for me.
Thanks :-)
Zodiac,
I will only take that as a compliment (that you don't expect me to make spelling mistakes) .. Thank you!
But really, it is still me, spelling mistakes and whatever other changes in writing style that you detect!
You have actually got me a little paranoid now though .. what spelling mistakes?
Bianca.
P.S. Though I think it's quite ridiculous, if you really want to check if it's me, I'm happy to discuss things from the DE days (provided I can remember them!) that would help verify I am the same poster as before.
Now come on, ladies. I think we are all here for the right reasons, and we are all acting for the right reasons. Let's not fight amongst ourselves, there are more than enough pros aroung to fight with :-(
Just saw the Sky trailer, and it is true, Kate leaving the police station has replaced the picture of Madeleine with the tennis balls.
Brunty has also been sent back to PDL.
Something's up.
Sky on the button, I doubt it. they would exploit any image IMO to sell their wares. They have not covered this case at all well, or even applied any journalistic standard to the story. So if they are showing Kate its pure chance IMO.
Bianca,
I would not want you to leave this forum. All I am saying is your style of writing seemed different, maybe that is due to your new opinion. As I said before apologies if I am wrong. Anyway it will not stop me corresponding with you, I neither like nor dislike the Mac's, I feel nothing for them. I have sympathy for M, having parents like that and also concern for M if she is still alive and finding herself in the position she now finds herself in.
Hiya all and before I have a good read just wanted to welcome back some great posters, Bianca, Niki, Zodiac and Lorraine. Glad you finally got through to me, difficult as I accept that can be especially now Clarence and Gerry are in control here:-)
(Conspiracy theorists who may be reading, I do try to crack the odd joke here and there!)
Luv Viv x
Hello All
Just lost my internet conection for a while (should I be paranoid LOL)....
I am just reading back but have to go out for a bit see you all later...
xxx
Dolores,
I am not suggesting the abductor had foreknowledge that Madeleine was sedated. Obviously, this would have been almost impossible for a random abductor to ascertain. All I'm saying is that if there WAS, in fact, and abductor, then Madeleine being sedated and therefore, unable to scream or wake up the other children, would have been an added bonus for him.
I mean, how did that guy waiting in the women's toilet (in the story I told earlier) know that the little girl he grabbed wasn't going to scream? How did he know that a little girl would come into the cubicle, and not an adult female - a female police officer, or security guard or something, that may have been able to overpower him?? He wouldn't .. couldn't .. have known any of this beforehand. Rather, this predator simply took the risk, and worked moment to moment.
Perhaps Madeleine's abductor walked in to the room and, to ascertain the level of the children's sleep, tapped on a table or whistled or something. On seeing that the children weren't going to easily wake up or cause him any trouble, he then slipped on some gloves and quickly slipped away with one of the children (i.e; Madeleine). Given that the door was apparently unlocked, how difficult would this have been to do? Not very! And given that I personally think that the parents NEVER checked the children that night, it was a predators dream!
Hiya Joe
Whilst I accept your general criticism of Sky's poor reporting of this case, I would just like to say that I thought Martin Brunt's Christmas Eve video report in response to more spin from the McCanns with their Christmas video was very good and well timed. He certainly did flag up discrepancies in the McCann's story although I cannot remember precise detail, bet someone will tell me though. I think he referred to an expert on forensic evidence and certainly flagged up the falsity in terms of distance from the restaurant to the apt.
Viv x
Bianca
I suspect you are up to your old tricks of being just a tad satirical here:
Perhaps Madeleine's abductor walked in to the room and, to ascertain the level of the children's sleep, tapped on a table or whistled or something.
Then he popped on some gloves...
um Inspector Cleuseau could have dealt with this chappie or predator if you will..
Luv Viv x
Bianca-
I just saw your post saying there were acid baths at Huelva! I hadn't realised this before. I knew there was a large lake, but this is a completely different thing. And of course we all know that K&G went to Huelva, to look round the shops for something to wear to visit the Pope (according to Gerry's blog)!
P.S.
Just want to add that I saw an interview with a child killer once on Australian TV (yes, it was vomit-inducing!) and they asked him what was the one thing that would make him think twice about kidnapping a child, and he said, and I will never forget this .. "deadlocks".
You see, he was in the habit of prowling around the streets at night and simply looking for opportunities. He was not a long-term planner, but an opportunist.
For the child whose parents were smart enough to safe-guard the house at night, there was little to fear. However, for the poor little ones whose parents took the risk and left windows and doors unlocked, there was nothing to stop them ending up this creature's next victim. He would quite literally let himself in through the front door, sneak up hallways to the child's bedroom, and then carry them out asleep while their parents slept in another room. He was that bold, that determined, and that prepared to risk being caught (in fact, he WAS eventually caught - hence - the interview!).
I know that random abductions are rare, but they DO happen! (which makes the McCanns even MORE culpable for leaving their children so vulnerable. Deadlocks? Pah! Try NO LOCKS!!)
Bianca,
Surely the abductor would have gloves on before entering the apt and surrounding area. If he/she/they had no gloves on he/she/they would be at risk of leaving fingerprints etc.
Hiya Viv - welcome back - we missed you!
Hiya Ratonthebeam
See you inform us Brunty has just been sent back to PDL, definitely would have to be a good reason to send one of their "top" reporters.
I said a few weeks back from a PR point of view if it looks like the McCanns are on the point of being forced to go back, e.g. to take part in a reconstruction on compunction due to their arguido status or worse still under a European Arrest Warrant; then it would be much better to have it put out they went back voluntarily...just like they always said they would.
Are we about to get a shock announcement that is exactly what they did?
Bianca
I am hopeless with names in real life and get confused with most of the people who were on the DX (actually though I can remebere all the really nasty ones for some reason) and cant remeber how you wrote there so that must mean you were not nasty at any rate...
I am allways nosey about who posted as what and who why and how though nevr thought blogging would be so paranoid...
I guess I am guilty of not trusting people here when they are new as there have been some really nasty comments from people who were posting as someone on the DX as someone who seemed inteligent but has now reverted to calling all of us the most vile names so what I am trying to say is there is nothing wrong with us all being careful just hope none of us get upset...
I can remeber you from the DX and believe you are who you say you are but with Muldoooooon (cant spell it so will go totally wrong) I guess we should be on our guard...
To be fair though what do these looneys think they will do if they find out my identity sell their story to the press???
Or will they come round to my house with the boys to tell me to shut up????
xxx
Bianca,
I tried to get access to your site but received this warning.
"You are just upon to log in on the page blogspot.com with the username beeshive2008 but the internet page doesn't acquire authentication. This can be an attempt to mislead you.
Is blogspot.com the page you want to visit?"
Then I googled beeshive2008@blogspot.com but google couldn't find anything.
Am I doing something wrong Bianca?
Hiya Nancy
It is nice to know I was missed, but judging by the number of posts again, things go alright without me, or do they, has everyone been playing nicely! I have not read them all yet! I am doing what I usually do, trying to get into the discussion whilst also having a sly read:-)
Luv Viv x
Nancy,
To buy clothes. Was that day not reporetd as being a public holiday or a Sunday and no shops open. Wonder what they bought.
Viv -
Yes I agree that Martin Brunt did a great job with his views from Praia de Luz. He seems to have gone awfully quiet now though, but then so have all the newspapers; eerie really! Perhaps he has more in store for us as he is there now apparently. I always think he is a journalist worth watching whatever the topic!
Hello everyone,
I remember this picture. What you see is just a little part of it.
The picture was done at a very early day, when all the friends were still there and were still in the same app. complex.
In full it shows a group of friends and some other people trying to enter the building - sort of squeeze through a narrow space, while being surrounded by photographers. Oldfield just happens to be behind Kate and directing her into the door, while she is shielding herself from photographers.
All of the people on this photograph were in hurry and trying to hide from cameras.
My bet if K did not cover her face, we will not be seeing any distort expression.
I do not have a link, but it is should be on the web some ware.
Hello Viv
Hope you are well what am I looking for on SKY I cant find anything :o(
Got to go out for a bit see you later xxx
Zodiac -
I don't think they realised until they had got there that the shops were closed, at least that's what Gerry said in his blog if my memory serves me correctly!
Nice to see you on here Zodiac!
What sign were you born under? I'm a Leo!
Hiya Hope
It would be interesting if Sky actually removed that video!
I HOPE YOU ARE ALL PLEASED. As it is members only who I know will not make repetitive barmy posts I took off that annoying verification requirement which is intended to deter people keep spamming with the same post Assasin style:-)
(Read it and weep Ass)
Hi Viv,
Thank you, it's great to be back :-)
Well look, I wasn't actually being satirical, but to be fair, I can see how you would have read it that way. It does sound a little forced.
The only point I really wanted to make is that it is a mistake to think that every abduction or kidnapping involves great planning or forethought. Some do, but then again, some don't. And there are varying degrees of planning.
I tend to think that those McCann kids were basically just left to the wolves, and it would have been incredible easy for someone to grab one of them. Children under more protected circumstances than them have been grabbed before now! And not just kids - plenty have women have been raped and/or murdered simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. For example, no great planning or forethought went into the hideous rapes or murders of Australian women, Anita Cobby and Janine Baulding. Again - they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time! (in both cases, the killers had set out with the intention of raping and murdering a woman, however, there was no specific woman in mind, and the circumstances of the crime were based on chance and opportunity).
Irina -
Hello - thanks for that information - I seem to remember seeing that from Praia de Luz too. Perhaps she had a bad hair day!! The photos of her recently she looks 100% improved; I reckon she must have her make up professionally done these days! The one taken on the way to Brussels - it's on McCann files - makes her look years younger!
H4T,
LOL! My thoughts also. If they discover who I really am, big deal. What can they do? Sell their story to the press or send the boys in blue to shut me up. I do not believe either press or police would be interested in me.
ps Bianca,
The story about a girl being raped and murdered on the toilet in a mall
I remember someone mentioned it before and also one in Spain.
I don't remember who was the one to tell us that it was a hoax. At least in Spain.
Thanks Viv for removing that, although I must admit it made me use my brain box a bit more than usual first thing in the morning. It sometimes took me three times!! But then my eyesight has never been my strong point!!
Atardi,
No. You are not doing anything wrong.
I'll just put the verification requirement back on (I switched it off to make it easier and quicker for people to post!) and that should fix it!
So weird, because other people have gotten in there easy as pie!
If you really want to, you can also try and access it via the link in my profile.
Thanks :-)
Nancy,
I am a Libran. I tried to register as Libra on the DE, it was taken so opted for Zodiac. When I was banned from the DE as Zodiac I
re-joined as Zephyr. I cancelled one of my e-mail addresses due to 2345's post on the 3 A's and thought I could not post as Zodiac on here so registered with google as zodiaczephyr but Zodiac worked today. Any way why do you ask my star sign are you trying to trace me, LOL!
They did not know the shops would be closed, yeah I believe that!
Hiya Bianca
Thanks I do see the point you are trying to make and I think it is one we have all flagged up before but in pointing out there is an example of such a predator highlights this.
The fact is the McCanns exposed their children to the risk of serious harm and even if Madeleine had been abducted there is no room for Kate and Gerry to completely deny responsibility for that.
This, overhwelming, is what seriously wound the public up and turned them against Kate and Gerry and so yes, sorry, you were making a serious point.
It is in the nature of guilty people who have committed a serious criminal offence to just go completely on the offensive (the police, the predator etc) and the defensive (I tell myself every day, I am a good responsible parent; it was just like being in our back garden, I wish we had been there at the moment she was "taken"). Innocent people do not feel threatened, they are confident and have no need to behave in this way. Further major examples of defensiveness/offensive behaviour of course hiring Clarence, media campaign, rushing back and instructing an extradition expert who even save Pinochet, threatening to sue everyone, even the police, actually sueing the Daily Express, ad nauseum , ad infinitum..
Viv x
Hey watch out guys, just like Nancy, I am another Leo the Lion. Bet you never would have guessed that though:-)
Wonder what Claudia is:-)
Viv x
Nancy,
One not so flattering picture on mccanfiles is a picture of Kate on the front cover of The Sun 12th May.
And would be a perfect compliment beside Viv's ugly one of G.
XX D
Hi Viv.(waves)
Hi again!
Unfortunately there is another case of a Brazilian five-year-old girl Isabella Nardoni that was thrown allegedly by her own father through the window of a 6th floor apartment after being seriously beaten in their own car by her stepmother when returning home.
Don't know if googling her name you find sth in English but also in this case family was responsible for her death and have tried to escape justice by stating they were in the garage carrying things out of the car when the crime happened.
DNA evidence has helped police solve the crime. Yesterday the couple were being questioned again and don't know if they were definetely arrested or not.
Their 3 year-old son was also there and witnesses reported to have heard him saying "Daddy stop, stop" that night before she had been thrown.
This case is also terrible. The girl was found on the grass and still alive but didn't survive the fall.
What a world we are living in! Can you imagine the trauma and future life of this small boy?
He was awaken...
Good that it was decided not to question him.
Rest in peace little angel..
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nL5ooFlUEd0
Hiya Dolores
Viv's ugly just jumped out the page at me then for a second and I thought oh no I have my personal predator back, but then I read on.
That pic of Gerry has always given me this mental image of red eyes and horns spouting from his head. It is hard to capture a look of such complete and utter rage and fury and the photographer who actually did get this probably made a lot of money out of that shot.
I know it infuriates his supporters. It symbolises him and the ugly character behind the mask he tries to put on. That is why it is staying put on this blog. It really does say it all x
Hi Zodiac -
LOL -
Thanks for letting me know your starsign - just being nosey really - my husband is a Libra - good looking people normally! but I can see we are all going to get paranoid on here if we don't watch out!! My first car was a zephyr many moons ago! Then I had a vauxhall cresta - those were the days!!
Jumping in the shower to get ready to go and eat now, catch you a bit later guys.
Still have not read all posts but will catch up when I get back!
Luv Viv x
Viv,
What about putting the one I mentioned of Kate, beside or underneath his.
Hope you are well darling.
xx D
Hello All
I am being so thick tonight (must still need to catch up on some sleep) what shop was closed???
And is the Breaking news on Sky on TV or on the net????
Love No Hope xxx
Hi Viv,
Nice to "see" you are here.
Is it because you took the requirement verification off that I can see every poster's dustbin?
Atardi,
Well I can assure you Atardi that the story I told about the little girl in the toilet (in Perth, Western Australia) was 100% real.
Her name was Sofia Rodriguez-Urrutia and she was eight years old. I saw this little girl's funeral on national Australian news, and even saw CCTV footage of the predator watching her family's ordeal after he had committed the crime.
No hoax here.
If only it was.
Dolores -
Thanks - I'll look that up. I find the McCann files a mine of information! So easy to use too!
I have a feeling things are going to start stepping up soon in this case - the papers have been so quiet and the television too - just like a sky before a storm!
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/19/content_8008030.htm
This link has got a summary on the case.
Zodiac
I really am being thick I was just thinking why use another birth sign if you are libra???
Then I realised that Zodiac is not a sign but the group of star signs Duuuu LOL
Sorry to have to tell you but I am Libra as well I am sure my feeble state of mind is nothing to do with my star sign...
Yes I await a knock at the door with men in dark suits saying "OI YOU SHUT IT"...lol
xxx
Viv, Where did you find that photo. I completely agree that it shows a side of Gerry that needs to be seen and memorised. It is a side he very much tries to hide. A lapse in his carefully smoothed presentation that can fool some people.
This photo symbolises that all humans have a mask and that his is far deeper than many want us to see.
Well, in this article it is stated they were arrested bur according to another one from Globo they were still being questioned after the DNA results have been given to the police.
Hope4truth,
Please be calm.
There is no need to get paranoid.
I have some internet problems too but just try to log in again.
Hello again,
The ugly picture of Gerry is a shot taken during his jogging exercise - he is out of breath.
Interesting though if you look at all their jogging pictures - Kate always ahead and never out of breathe...
Nancy,
Well yeah, I found out about the acid lakes at Huelva from a Spanish poster (whose name escapes me at the moment) at DE.
I have never been convinced that the McCanns killed Madeleine, but have occasionally, as one does, tried to put together a plausible scenario in my mind about how this COULD have happened.
I remember saying one night at DE that the McCanns seem incredibly cavalier and confident for people that possibly know there's a chance that their daughter's body may be found, so what that that says to me is, MAYBE THEY KNOW IT WON'T BE FOUND?? (and remember, Gerry's statement "find the body and prove we killed her" sounds as much like a challenge as a defense, when you really think about it!)
I said this night on DE that to be THIS confident that the body WOULDN'T be found, the only answer I could come up with was ACID, although I wasn't sure what KIND of acid or where they would have gotten it from. I speculated (not sure if anyone here remembers this night, but the may!) about battery acid from their car, even brick-layers acid, but every theory was shot down by other posters. Then, suddenly this Spanish poster got on and seemed very emotional and said "that poor little girl. Her body was thrown into the acid lakes at Huelva. Yes Bianca, you are right"!!
And so that's how I came to that theory. As I say though, all things considered, I have now dropped this and all other killing theories.
Atardi
I can only see my bin and the paranoia is easing now LOL xxx
Does anyone here have knowledge of Code of Honour, and knows what happends to those, who are in miscredit? A treath against a possible drop in their social status, for whatever reason , can make people kill or/and cover up, even if the cover up is meaning the life of their own family!
Besides sex, drugs & alcohol, money, revenge, insanity and jealousy (I have seen them all in my prisonwork)
Hope,
take it easy:-)
Bianca,
Thank you for explaining about the case in Australia. Thank you.
You see, we don't need to offend each other.
Just explain things.
Irina,
Also thanks for the explanation of the photo.
My thoughts were that (maybe) Mat Oldfield didn't know much about the case and that he really tried to comfort Kate.
But what I really don't understand is that CM said that Rachel Oldfield was in JT's apartment.
But we know that no woman left the table during that night.
What do you think about CM's statement?
Ps. Read you had a zoo at home. You must be a very busy woman.
Hope4Truth,
I know what you mean - the nasty ones do tend to stand out, don't they!
I don't think you were here the other night when there were no mods. Some "pro's" swept down on us, took advantage of no mods being here, and gradually, got nastier and nastier! In the end, they were using extremely foul, crude language, and one had changed their avatar to an image of a penis. Leigh said it had happened before, and advised that we all leave the blog before we were swarmed with pornography! It was Assassin, an "anon", and "Muldoon".
Pretty nasty stuff!
I can understand you being paranoid or bothered by people like this, but try not to let it get to you too much. You are not doing anything wrong by having your opinion on this blog, and if someone comes to your house, you have as mush right to call the police as anyone else! (doubt they will though :-) )
Bianca
Just managed to get on your blog and have left 3 comments (long story not my day today LOL)...
xxx
No probs Atardi
:-)
Hey Hope,
Will check back at my blog soon.
Thanks :-)
Nancy,
As a Libran I have to agree we are good looking people. I told my husband when we got married I would not be a trophy wife. My husband said I was a Nastassja Kinski look-a-like when I was young, sadly for him I seem to have morphed into a Dawn French/Jo Brand look-a-like as I have got older, only kiddin I do not think I am that bad, but certainly not the sylph like bride I was. Luckily for me my husband is a Hugh Laurie look-a-like. When we watch House I look at House and then my husband and think, yummy.
H4T,
I think it must be a Libran trait. One of my sons often jokes (well I hope it is a joke) that he does not know how I function in the outside world as he thinks I am stupid. My oldest is a Libran also and maybe it is because I am his mum, but he is gorgeous as are my other three.
Hope it will either be the men in dark suits knocking at the door saying 'OI YOU SHUT IT' or as the Pro's always say anyone who does not agree with them is nuts it may well be men in a white van with a lovely white jacket with straps on the back.
Bianca
I dont think anyone will waste their time with me but have very good security and can take care of myself..
It is the threats that make me wonder why people are so bothered by this blog??? This is a very sad and tragic case but whatever happend it started with the parents and finished god knows where and the voice of a 3 year old should be heard loud and clear above everyone elses...
xxx
Atardi,
CM's statement was about the night before, when Madeleine was heard crying. Like, she was next door and did not hear anything... But CM still mixed up the apartments and whom they belonged to.
Zodiac
My eldere daughter is alos a Libran and we are very alike (dont tell her I said that)...
Do you know a visit from a man in a white coat could be just what I need a few weeks in a nice padded cell could really recharge my batteries...
xxx
It seems posters here are more worried with Bianca and don't want to comment on the other tragic case. So I decided to put Isabella's photo as a tribute to her here in this blog.
Hope you don't mind, though.
Cheers!
Viv,
You make some good points and certainly, the McCanns and their elaborate PR campaign could be read as pathetic or desperate. I think most people, whether they believe Madeleine was accidentally killed or not, are a little incredulous and even disgusted by all the McCanns PR (and I know, many people are more than just disgusted - they are highly suspicious!).
If they had just acted like normal parents of a missing daughter they could have saved themselves a lot of flack from the public. But there you go .. it would have to have been an ACT!
They are not normal, but very bizarre!
Anyway, I agree that their negligence is such that it basically lead to Madeleine's death (if she is dead - hope not, but what are the chances?), and so in this sense, they have committed manslaughter even if they never personally harmed a hair on her head.
I may never actually harm a child, but if I throw a child into a lion's den, then aren't I still responsible for whatever happens next? Personally, I don't see what the McCanns did (or DIDN'T do) as being all that different to throwing their children into a lion's den. The world is fall of kidnappers, rapists, and murderers, and yet these "parents" couldn't even bring themselves to lock the hotel door while their three infant children lay there in their nightclothes, asleep??
Come on!!
Forgot to say as my avatar.
Another innocent girl abused by people who should have given her all the love she deserved.
Bye!
H4T 19.49pm,
LOL!
Hope, my son who shares the same Star sign (Libra) as me, is also very like me. Do you ever buy the same clothes in different colours ie: ooh I really like that top, what colour shall I get, ooh I will have one in black, one in cream, one in brown etc. I can never buy just one.
Marga,
So sorry to hear your tragic story. Hope the little one can rest in peace. So sorry for the sibling that is left. Some people do not deserve the joy of children.
Marga
I have just read the link you provided a very sad and tragic case.
I know abuse and child murder has been around since the begining of time and now we hear about more of it through the internet but I am sure things are getting worse.
She was beautiful and I hope the police do not have a hard time proving what happend to her also I pray her younger brother will be cared for and given a chance at a much better life and with care he can get over what he witnessed.
I wish there was something that could be done to help all vunrable children but I have no answers I see my children as a special gift to be cherished and loved I make mistakes but would walk over broken glass to keep them safe I just cant get my head round neglect and abuse of children or any vunrable person?
Hope4Truth,
I agree completely.
Where is the impetus to be so very protective of the parents in this case??
They have, if nothing else, admitted to serious child neglect, so why do these people want to champion their cause so vehemently, and knock down anyone who dares suggest they are less than perfect??
It doesn't make sense.
No wonder we have all suspected from time to time that we are talking to members of the McCann family themselves, because it doesn't make sense that anyone else would want to protect them this passionately!
Zodiac
Is that a Libra thing then??? I dont like buying clothes or shoes much but when I find something I like I buy it in every colour and have 3 pairs of walking boots in my wardrobe in blue black and grey the blue ones are nearly worn out and the otheres are brand new but I had to have all the colours LOL xxx
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