4 Aug 2011

HUMAN BONES FOUND IN THE ALGARVE

Monkfish  live on the ocean floor and like ship wrecks (see article below)  I know they are also expensive fish because they are more difficult to catch hiding in sand on the ocean floor and the wrecks they often inhabit.  

Lab results awaited with interest. 


Human Bones found in Algarve - update


4 August 2011
Posted by Joana Morais Leave a Comment





Some people on twitter and on facebook have been speculating if the human bones found by a fishing boat in Algarve could belong to Madeleine McCann, according to a follow-up article published today in Diário de Noticías (paper edition), the bones belong to an adult.



Human bones picked up by trawler nets

by José Manuel Oliveira





According to authorities, human bones, belonging possibly to a "young adult or adult" were found yesterday, along with shellfish and monkfish in the nets of a fishing vessel during a routine inspection made by the Navy. The inspection was done between 6:00 and 6:30, when the fishing vessel was at work between the areas of Fuzeta and Tavira Island, six miles from the coast, the equivalent of ten kilometers.



As stated by the commander of Olhão's Port Authority, Ricardo Arrabaça, there are some "long bones of an incomplete arm, besides a pelvis bone and a leg bone, both equally incomplete", adding that "they might belong to an individual, adult who has been in the sea for a long time". In that way, it was excluded the idea that rouse immediately when thinking about the eventuality of the bones belonging to Madeleine McCann, the English child who disappeared on the evening of May 3, 2007, from Praia da Luz, Lagos. On the other hand, there is no record of disappearances at sea in that area.



The fishing boat, a trawler of Vila Real de Santo António, where no infraction was detected, had to be accompanied by the Portuguese ship Eagle to the port of Olhão for the bones to be collected. The human bones followed up from there to the National Institute of Legal Medicine in Lisbon. The case was referred to the Public Ministry.



in Diário de Notícias (paper edition), August 4, 2011


How to Catch Monkfish

X Paul ParsonsPaul Parsons is a freelance writer, living in Houston, Texas. Parsons writes from an array of different topics, but specializes in medical, personal finance, computers and business.

By Paul Parsons, eHow Contributor



Print this article Catching fish requires patience.

Flag this photo



Catching a monkfish requires a moderate level of fishing skills and some good bait. The monkfish, also known as an angler fish, is an ugly fish with a large mouth. You can find it in the northwest Atlantic feeding on the ocean floor. In order to catch a monkfish, you need to know where to look. Monkfish prefer to hide near wreck sites, feeding on shellfish and other creature that stay near the bottom of the ocean. Although avid fisherman use nets, you can catch a monkfish with a rod and reel.



Difficulty:ModerateInstructions

Things You'll Need

Boat

Sonar equipment (optional)

Fishing pole

Bait (skate is a good one)

Fishing net

Suggest Edits



1

Take your boat out onto the water. Look for shipwreck sites because this is where monkfish like to feed. Sonar equipment can help you to see what is on the floor. Boat charters and fishing guides can also help you to locate wreck sites. If there aren't any wreck sites, monkfish will migrate up to 25 miles out. They normally aren't found any farther out than that.



2

Bait your fishing pole. Skate bait is normally used for monkfish, but you can also use scallops or other larger baits.



3

Drop your line. Keep in mind that the ocean floor is typically 120 feet or more depending on where you are. The monkfish weigh anywhere from 25 to 50 pounds so use a heavy line on your pole.



4

Drag your line on the bottom. Monkfish remain half hidden in the sand on the ocean floor; as you drag your bait, the monkfish will take it. When you feel the tug on your line, give a firm jerk to set your hook.



5

Reel in your monkfish. The monkfish doesn't put up much of a fight, so don't get discouraged if it feels like you are pulling up a heavy boot. Use your fishing net to get your monkfish into the boat and remove the hook.







Read more: How to Catch Monkfish
eHow.co.uk http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_6392590_catch-monkfish.html#ixzz1U4orrZa6

120 comments:

viv said...

It will be interesting to know who these bones belong to, particularly given the suggestion they have been in the water for a long time and no missing persons for that area If they are broken not sure how it is clear they belong to an adult, but it could still be obvious I suppose.

Pending the lab results further speculation seems a bit premature/

viv said...

but it all seems a bit eerie, have London Met concluded Maddie was put in the sea and hence dredge nets are being checked?

viv said...

My original verdict on this lady, spinning and collecting for the McCanns, remains unchanged I am afraid. She wants to ignore the British investigation and British jurisdiction to prosecute Kate and Gerry and collect loads of cash, so do Kate and Gerry. There is not a hair between them.

BEWARE IF YOU BUY HER HYPED UP BANNED BOOK YOU ARE GIVING 50 PER CENT TO KATE AND GERRY MCSCAM, UNLESS, LIKE HER, THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, DO NOT BUY IT.

Those who are genuinely concerned and interested about justice for Maddie will freely give their opinion and not keep plugging some book on Facebook and Twitter that is lining their own pockets. MADDIE IS NOT A CASH COW.



ProfilerPatB PAT BROWN
@ @anotherviv I am not talking about other crimes, just the Madeleine #McCann missing person investigation.
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
ProfilerPatB PAT BROWN
Just to point out, Madeleine #McCann went missing in Portugal, not England. It is NOT a British case, so they have no jurisdiction.
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
ProfilerPatB PAT BROWN
Madeleine #McCann Fund: To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family." Including funding lawyers to sue people.
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
ProfilerPatB PAT BROWN
Like I am going to give the McCanns money to pay their lawyers to ban my book? #McCann
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
ProfilerPatB PAT BROWN
BTW, some think I am giving 50% of my book sales to the #McCann fund.This is absolutely not true & crazy to boot! It is MY search fund.
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply » ProfilerPatB PAT BROWN
WHAT British investigation of Madeleine #McCann? My book still at Smashwords http://tinyurl.com/3ucovo9 & B&N http://tinyurl.com/3mujkhm

Di said...

Hi Viv

I saw that Pat was saying the money, from her book sales, was funding a search team to PDL I thought hmmm.

So, are we now having a new set of PI's going to PDL, who as we know, have absolutely no jurisdiction whatsoever.

I am sorry that I thought Pat was getting the word out there, this was not what I was expecting.

It is interesting that everyone is saying if you downloaded Pat's book to Kindle, computer, etc., and paid, because the McCanns have had it pulled you can no longer access it.

I downloaded the book to my Kindle and yes I can still read it without a problem, I find it odd other people can't.

viv said...

HIya Di

It would seem that is what Pat means, she is helping to pay for another team to search in PDL. She is not really far short of admitting she supports them is she!

She even tweeted "what British investigation"! She is in complete denial just like her paymasters. It is a shame that she raised such false hope among so many but no doubt that it was she designed to do.

Going back to the bones found in the sea. I recall reading that Kate refers to a witness who apparently saw them early morning carrying a large black bag. Do not know whether this is fact. I also recall, early days, PJ were looking for black bin bags.

If they did have witness statements like the above and there are possibly others who saw Gerry carrying Maddie away together with the finding of her body in the sea I think they would have a case against Kate and Gerry. Never did fathom why he had those surgical gloves, but they are often part of a crime kit.

I suppose it would just be too amazing for London Met to have forged a breakthrough this quick, but I cannot quite understand the Portuguese Navy checking fishing vessel nets unless it is part of crime investigation. Maybe someone can tell me otherwise, I did tweet about it but no response on that one.

We will have to wait and see, but Goncalo has always maintained the ground was too hard to dig a grave and that she is in the sea.

viv said...

I also find it key that those fish are only found by dredging the sea floor in very deep water, with the bones those are what you would catch. Is it possible they were asking fishermen to help? The Navy also being there for the results? Just odd!

viv said...

If they did kill Maddie, it is logical that the only way to solving the mystery and stopping the McCann fraud is to find the body. That would be a good place to put in the resources and the EU would probably fund a big sea search if that was considered important, based upon the available evidence. Maybe not just witness sightings but mobile phone triangulation.

viv said...

Tony Bennett received a letter from London Met saying the investigation was to look at the circumstances of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and that all evidence would be looked at, including that gathered by private investigators.

That is obviously why Kate, Gerry and their entourage like Pat Brown, wish to completely ignore it. As far as they are concerned, there is no need to look at the circumstances of her disappearance, they already told us what happened, she was abducted. What the London Met should be doing is looking for her and her abductor. Ummm.

Pat Brown is a lady who sells her "expertise" to the media. I have seen no evidence whatosoever of her being involved in real investigations.

viv said...

To be fair Tony Bennett also backed me up on Twitter by pointing out to Pat that she is wrong and of course British Police do have jurisdiction in this case for various possible criminal offences.

Pat's responses to me actually confirms she is only interested in the disappearance, ie. what Portugal could be doing, looking for her, not any offences committed by the McCanns. As I have always correctly pointed out McCanns want the case in Portugal looking for Maddie, not in UK looking at them!!

viv said...

Here Martin Smith says the "rude man" was carrying a child "wrapped in a blanket". The early reports in the British Press concerning Jane Tanner also spoke of her just coming out from her apartment,not returning and again, spoke of a child wrapped in a blanket.

And yet, the Portuguese Police file shows a picture of Madeleine's bed with her blanket on it.


Say Martin Smith and Jane Tanner are right, why did Jane Tanner start telling the story the other way around, she was going to "do a check" and why did she start saying there was no blanket? The implication could be that Gerry carried Maddie off in that blanket, dumped her and then brought the blanket back again to stage the bed with. He certainly fits the "rude" description and Irish people in my experience are generally extremely genial and friendly people who would quite naturally seek to acknowledge a fellow holidaymaker in what was, at that time of year a pretty quiet and lonely Praia da Luz, the season had only just opened.

viv said...

Maddie: Irishman provides dramatic new clues Daily Mail (appeared in paper edition only)

EXCLUSIVE: Tourist met rude man carrying child in blanket on night Madeleine vanished

By SANDRA MURPHY, VANESSA ALLEN
January 3, 2008

AN IRISH holidaymaker has spoken publicly for the first time of his disturbing encounter with a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared.

Now investigators hired by Madeleine's parents hope Martin Smith and his family can provide a crucial breakthrough.

Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co. Louth, Mr Smith recalled the sighting, which is strikingly similar to one by a friend of the McCanns, Jane Tanner. In hindsight, the retired Mr Smith said, the mans rude behaviour should have aroused his suspicions.

He explained: "The one thing we noted afterwards was that he gave us no greeting.

"My wife Mary remembered afterwards that she asked him, 'Oh, is she asleep?' But he never acknowledged her one way or another.

"He just put his head down and averted his eyes. This is very unusual in a tourist town at such a quiet time of the year."

Their description of the barefoot child and the man, who wore beige trousers, echoes that of Miss Tanner, who said she saw a man carrying a sleeping child away from the McCanns apartment about 9.15pm.

Though the Smith family believe they met an almost identical man closer to 10pm, the coincidence prompted them to contact police after they returned to Ireland. Mr Smith said: "Luz is such a small place and so quiet, we felt a duty to tell police and let them decide if it was important."

Last night, McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said detectives from the Spanish agency Metodo 3 now hoped to speak to the family. "Metodo 3 is being very methodical, working through a number of people they think might be able to help them, and this family will be on their list."

On the night of the disappearance, Mr Smith was dining with his wife in the Dolphin restaurant in Praia Da Luz, where they are frequent visitors.

The couple were with their daughter Aoife, their son Peter and his wife Sile,as well as four grandchildren Tadhg, Cole, Aisling and Eimear.

All nine met the man holding a child but their recollection differs slightly from Miss Tanner's.

"In the image she gave, the man was holding the child forward in his arms. The man we saw had put the child over his shoulders. But Luz was very, very quiet at that time of the year and the likelihood of two young children being carried around like this is very small.

"Also, our timings are a bit different. She saw the man at 9.15pm. We say 9.45or 9.50pm and the sighting was only a five-minute walk from where the child was staying.

(more google it)

viv said...

There is also a picture on the Portuguese police file of the McCanns two divan beds pulled together and what appears to be a pair of beige trousers flung on top....

Say you were a tidy couple of doctors and dressed for dinner each night, would you leave a pair of trousers flung on the bed, or would they be in the washing machine or back in the cupboard?

But if you had dashed back and needed to change your trousers because someone spotted you, might you just fling them on the bed?

Just my musings and there are many, including Smith is just telling lies for Gerry to suggest very clearly to the public there was an abductor that night because the PJ were refusing to release Jane's erm sighting and so up pops Smith a few weeks later. I am not saying this is what happened, just looking at the possibilities.

It is certainly true to say that in general Brit cops warn vital police witnesses not to speak to the press, but Smith is in Ireland.

viv said...

and of course, Goncalo Amaral does like to tease about the pink blanket. I wonder if that is what he means. If two witnesses saw Maddie being carried away in it, how could it have got back on her bed again, erm, Gerry?

viv said...

Maddie's blanket brings in a new lead.

Kate says that the blanket was taken by the abductors, but the PJ took a photograph of it. Then it disappeared.

When
Kate was interviewed on 26 April last year on the Oprah Winfrey show,
she made an appeal: "I hope that the abductors cover her with her
blanket." The mother of Maddie, who disappeared in Praia da Luz in 2007,
was referring to the pink blanket which 4 year old Maddie slept with
every night. This same blanket was photographed by the PJ on the day
following the disappearance, but it was never seen again. "If the
blanket was there the next day, how was it possible for the abductors to
take it. It is also with this that I will try to get the case
reopened.", stated Gonçalo Amaral, ex-coordinator of the PJ in Portimão.

"There
are many new facts that I will hand over to the Ministério Público and
which I believe to be enough to get this case, which should never have
been shelved, reopened. This is one more detail. We need to know which
blanket was Kate talking about, because the pink one stayed in the
apartment. Now it is missing."

"All of these details will be
presented to a prosecutor (procurador) and I was not able to do this
earlier because the McCanns prohibited me, against the Constitution,
from doing so", he continued.

In a communique, the McCanns'
lawyer accused Gonçalo Amaral of "producing damaging insinuations to
invoke the faults of the investigation", and that Maddie's disappearance
is "an unending source of enrichment through false and offensive
accusations which are prejudicial to the investigation". Amaral defends
himself: "I am speaking and working with facts. I have not become rich
from this case and I find it strange that the parents of a missing child
are only worried about their legal defense in the case and do not want
the truth to be found. They never wanted Justice to work."

WIKILEAKS
One
of the 250.000 diplomatic documents, on the Wikileaks site, revealed
that the British police found evidence against the parents. The new
information could lead to the reopening of the case.

viv said...

and even more strangely, having been photographed by the PJ, the McCanns, it would seem, then decide the blanket is so incriminating because witnesses have seen Maddie being carried in it, they better get rid of it.

Now you see it, now you dont whoosh!

Oh come on London Met, this case is driving me mad!

Mar said...

LOL Viv, you and me both! I'm hoping for a resolution soon, can't really take it much longer.

Regarding Pat Brown, I really don't know what to think. I agree that it is bizarre that she is trying to arrange a 'search' in PDL. A search for what exactly? I don't think anyone with an ounce of professionalism would go there. They would just let the authorities get on with it.

Besides, she would have to sell a heck of a lot of books to fund it, perhaps, as you say, that's the one and only goal, plug and sell the book.

I kind of see what she means when she says 'What UK investigation'. We haven't heard anything on that for weeks. Perhaps that's the way it should be but I sometimes think 'is it really happening?' 'did I dream that?' LOL.

Nothing more has been said after DC's announcement. You Perhaps it was just a good PR stunt by DC and nothing is actually happening. I mean, after the events of the last few weeks, can we really trust DC, the papers or even the Met?

Like you say, go on solve this case before I turn into a paranoid nutcase!!! LOL

xxxx

viv said...

Oh hiya again Mar, and yes, you need to laugh because the twists and turns in this case and trying to figure out the various perspectives of those who wish to loom large can be a bit daunting!

I mean, has Tony Bennett hit a raw seam with his revelations about Smethurst's apparent Facebook friends? It does make you wonder given he is still one of the trusted Fund Directors! On the other hand if I had started to read such stuff on my computer I would be completely paranoid that I was committing a criminal offence and my computer would be forever stained with evidence of that filth.

Pat does make some hard hitting points against the McCanns, for example, she correctly points out that Gerry changed his evidence concerning the doors and that would indeed be a clear red flag to the police IMO. From 10 May 2007, IMO, there was no way on earth Gerry McCann was ever going to evade being a prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine on the basis of that vital change of tack in his evidence alone.

But all of this is in the public domain and there are people like me who have very lucidly pointed it out. Sometimes, I would imagine, if you are clever spinner, you have to roll with what is already out there. When you read her it is the most confusing array of accepting the reality but also opening the clear lines of defence for Kate and Gerry. In any criminal case when it reaches trial, as Pat knows only too well, the defence may often be quite clear their client is guilty on the basis of the evidence. That does not matter, what matters is showing there is an element of doubt, some other scenario is just as plausible. Because Kate and Gerry say, ultimately, all the doors were left open, how can it be positively stated no abductor got in there? The only way this can be done is to have such a large swathe of other evidence pointing in the opposite direction and how they deliberately manipulate the evidence to prove their point, i.e. they say they left the doors open.

When you get to the end of an interview with Pat it is like having gone through some bad stuff for the McCanns and to make herself look credible, she then must get back to her brief. Slowly and cleverly she starts to plug the abduction by stranger scenario once more and completely rubbish the British Police.

She scoffingly comments well they allocated £3.5 M what are they going to spend that on, looking for Maddie. They need to go back to the beginning. That is the nub of her spin and lies IMO. What senior team of 30 detectives who are "investigating the circumstances of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann" would just look for Madeleine!! How on earth can she expect us to believe that 30 murder squad detectives would fail to go back to the beginning, given their stated remit!! How can she not know how the money could be spent. Most of those 30 officers were due to retire, by keeping them on the wages bill alone would be quite massive. I would estimate £1.5 to £2M per annum for their wages and associated costs like pension and NI expenses etc. Is Pat really so green she cannot even intelligently comment about this? I dont think so!

She constantly plugs her book and relies on the "banned" word to increase her sales. There is also the issue of any British Judge stating there is too much on the internet for them to get a fair trial. If high profile people like Pat are getting countless thousands behind her, that could be the unfortunate result.

It is typical of a high profile cold case review that there is no comment upon it whilst it is being undertaken for fear of causing serious prejudice and again the defence being able to state, we cannot prepare a defence to the case now and a judge throwing the prosecution case out for that very reason.

viv said...

Mar

I would just add, no we cannot trust David Cameron, the media or certain senior officers at London Met.

But my feeling is that shrewd politician Theresa May has pointed out to Cameron the folly of not dealing with this head on and cutting out the cancer. I find it impossible to believe that 30 officers appointed would be a myth or that they would go oh yea of course we are just pi$$ing about doing a coverup for Kate and Gerry McCann. Theresa May has ensured there are some very good senior lady cops to replace those dodgy villains that were at the helm at London Met and who of course turned a blind eye to other more junior bent cops. It is good for the tories to be seen to be dealing with this even if they take a severe bruising in the process IMO. Apart from that I doubt Theresa May really cares too much about the future of Cameron, she probably wants his job!

viv said...

I have tried repeatedly to leave this comment on a German blog without success:
http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com/p/theory-english.html#comment-form

This is very well thought out and interesting and IMO does tally with the evidence in the case.

There is a PJ photograph that appears to show a pair of beige coloured trousers on Kate and Gerry's pulled together beds. It is possible that Kate was "playing up", heard by Mrs Fenn and the police had to be called a little sooner, hence he did not clean those trousers up.

In the email exchange dated October 2007 between Ricardo Paiva and DC Marshall it would seem the Paynes had been given a "questionnaire" to answer by Brit cops and they were vague and unhelpful. Payne was not prepared to state what he was wearing on the afternoon of 3 May and he claims to have seen Maddie at 5 pm that night. He obviously lied because in other versions he says it was at 6.30 pm having been sent there by Gerry. I do think the Paynes were helping with "support and babysitting" during the early evening on 3 May. I recall in that email it also states that Fiona says that she and Kate returned to the apartment at 7 pm and the husband returned 10 minutes later although she does not make clear whether this is Gerry or David.

In regard to the last post above, I actually thought it was clever police work to allow Russell to keep on changing his statement. The police obviously have all the different versions and can thus see exactly the bits that are troubling him so much! Russell does seem to feel he has done more than enough to help the McCanns, not being present for the steps of the High Court which was clearly a show of solidarity, bar him, and neither was he present with Jane Tanner for the McCanns own reconstruction in Portugal, which they did not want the police to be involved in. But Mat and Jane were. I found it incredible on the film that Gerry and Mat actually showed how the rear apartment patio door was actually left slightly ajar so that a hand could go in to slide it open. As if any parent would leave their children in that fashion!

Your theory certainly fits with Kate wailing "they have taken her" and "we have let her down". No decent burial and we know who "they" are

Di said...

Hi Viv & Mar

I still find it odd that Pat's book was pulled from Amazon yet Faked Abduction still remains. Pat maintained it was just a theory, what happened to free speach.

I agree Mar, Pat would have to sell an awful lot of books to fund any search in PDL, and it would achieve nothing.

Viv, I think the blanket plays a very important part in this whole sorry saga. GA has always said he knows far more than he is saying, and I think Kate & Gerry are very aware of that, hence their need to be continuously on the attack.

viv said...

Hiya Di and Mar

It seems very strange to me that people like Tony Bennett and Pat suddenly get all this publicity drive on blogs forum twitter etc and next thing you know, Carter Ruck write a letter and they have to be quiet.

Just too strange, that there never are any court proceedings against these people.

In fact Bennett and Pat use the Carter Ruck letters to gain yet more infamy. Pat is clearly counting on the "banned" word.

Tony Bennett was a nuisance stalking the McCanns in their own yard. Why did they never get the police involved against him?

I think the major problem is interest is severely waning and book are not selling.

Meanwhile the real police are getting on with the job, hopefully!

viv said...

Hiya again Di

If Pat is not a friend of the McCanns, I do not think publishers care about free speech. They care about what is selling.

So if Kate's book is selling well, making them a lot of money, and Pat's book is causing problems to that, would they just pull it on the basis of a solicitors letter, yes, I think they would. It is what the McCanns get around to objecting to really and I am open to the very clear possibility they did kill Maddie and dump her body and do not want people talking about this. It affects their wealth and reputation!

If they could only keep people onside for another twelve months prior to their arrest, think how much money they could have for their defence costs. Without Maddie this case has always looked very difficult for the prosecution to win. So put massive McCann wealth with that and they think they can go to trial and walk even if they do get arrested. Never underestimate these two or their long term plans.

I think they know they are not going to get the police to stop investigating them and waste time look for fantasy abductors.

OJ Simpson did it, and Michael Jackson. Gerry likes all things American.

Di said...

Hi Viv & Mar

I believe Tony Bennett has also just been Carter Rucked for libeling Brian Kennedy. I cannot understand why Tony does it. I seem to remember a couple of years back he feared if he was sued he would lose his house, and supposedly backed off. Perhaps Viv, he knows that is not going to happen. He says he is seeking Solicitors advice, who is paying for the Solicitors, if indeed any advice is being sought.

We also had all that unbelievable situation with Debbie Butler, throwing accusuations against Tony. Then Debbies supposed walk across Portugal, which many people say never happened.

On another note, what happened to the money raised by J Morais for G Amaral's fighting fund?

Mar said...

Hi Viv and Di,

I came across this the other day and would be interested to know what you make of it:

https://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/seeking-steve-bywaters/

Do you give any credence to it? The poster seems awfully sure but how could he possibly know? And if that's what actually happened, what did they do with the body? Why doesn't this poster comment any further?

If Tanner thinks she's responsible for whatever happened then it makes sense that she would make up an 'abductor' to save her own skin.

Who got rid of the body though? Was it Tanner upon finding her dead thinking that it was her fault and the McCanns know nothing about it? Or was it the McCanns who found her? Did they then decide to go with the abduction theory to 'help' Tanner (and get the focus off themselves too)?

I have to say that if that's what really happened then GM is a very sly and devious individual! I'm guessing there's nothing in it though, otherwise Steve might have heard from Carter Ruck by now since - I think - this originally appeared at the Leicester Mercury.
Or perhaps this is what the Met police (hopefuly the non-corrupt ones) are investigating right now, who knows!

The bit about IVF in the comments section at the bottom has me completely mystified, if either of you can work out what he's on about let me know.

x Mar.

Di said...

Just to say, I feel for anyone caught up in these terrible acts of violence in London and elsewhere. How can the BBC keep saying these people are demonstrators and protesters, they are mindless thugs, and looters.

David Cameron needs to get himself back here and sort this dreadful situation out, or perhaps he is too busy with his tennis lessons.

What an awful mess this country is in.

viv said...

Hiya Di

I also wanted to sign in to say I hope Wiz is safe from harm with the terrible thuggery that is going on.

I agree these people are not lawfully acting as protesters, they are mindless thugs who are ruining peoples' homes, businesses and lives. They are causing heartbreak and terror and I hope every single one of them hears the clang of the prison doors locking them up where they belong.

viv said...

Hiya again Di

Well with Tony Bennett, one thing is for sure, he is not concerned about justice for little Maddie.

It is more like some mindless crusade with the intention of demonstrating what a stalking nutcase he is. That thread on 3 As " a house in Knutsford", "his sources revealed". Who the heck are his sources? Sitting behind Gerry at the Select Committee, writing that sprawling rubbish to MPs, targeting the McCanns own road, writing to the GMC and social services about them, demanding an inquest for Maddie. The ridiculous and very public fall out between him and Debbie Butler and her "fund raising" lengthy walk that it does not seem she even carried out.

With Edward Smethurst in particular it seems to come very close to personal animosity as he pokes into his affairs. He got a planning application wrong, photographs of his lovely barn conversions, and now repeating the most foul stuff about his apparent paedophile friends on Facebook.

There is something just as sick and unseemly about Tony Bennett as Gerry himself IMO.

All this book selling and fund raising for legal cases etc, just what, exactly has any of this to do with finding justice for little Maddie McCann? There are some very sick people about who leave no stone unturned in just cashing in, no matter how sick the subject matter.

I have always thought that voicing our opposition to the conduct of Kate and Gerry is reasonable and lawful behaviour, a fair answer to their spin. But there are so many whose stated intention was to take the law into their own hands, they are sick.

viv said...

Take Pat for example, she actually says she needs to investigate in Rothley, Maddie's body could be hidden there by them because the police cannot look without a warrant.

If this is not designed to launch the mindless thugs with her absurd and ridiculous suggestions that some very ignorant people actually take seriously I do not know what is.

AT the end of the day you just have to wonder if all this has just one purpose, to make the police protect the McCanns rather than prosecute them.

viv said...

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/jdasp/jda/361/a-change-of-mind-about-the-mccanns/

Di, Mar, would be good if you could add your comments here, I have


Viv
5 hours agoRecommended by
2 peopleI do not understand how any normal parent could go on TV and explain that Maddie said her and the children were crying the night before so they went out and left them again with the doors open. But they were both keen to tell the police that the following morning. You would have to be callous beyond belief to leave them again, but they go on TV to brag about it? Gerry was also bragging prior to her disappearance about leaving them alone.

I think the police will not charge them with neglect because what they did was far worse than that, that was merely a ruse to explain how she could have been "taken".

It is a fact that Gerry received 14 texts the day before (see Portuguese Police files) but he just denies it.

I do not know exactly what they did with Madeleine but I know they are guilty and the police have never been looking for anyone else, have they.

All this couple have ever done since day one is tell contradictory lies, laugh, jog and see how they can make some more money out of it. Oh, and threaten people who criticise them.

viv said...

An interesting reminder of what a criminal psychologist thought at a relatively early stage, about Kate and Gerry McCann. They have always seemed like they are seeking to avoid the real issues with their never ending spree of "campaigns". Anniversary, summer, christmas, you name it. I was not the least surprised when they released their money peddling book Madeleine, replete with picture of her as a made up little tot, looking nothing like she did at the time of her disappearance, lies and fakery have become their "norm".

viv said...

Dr Christian Ludke, Criminal Psychologist, talks about Kate and Gerry McCann

Dr Christian Ludke - Criminal Psychologist

By Uta Keseling
7 September 2007, 18:11
Translation by Nigel Moore

The forensic psychologist Dr. Christian Lüdke leads a company in Essen which supports the victims of robberies, kidnappings, accidents or disasters. He spoke with WELT ONLINE about the possible motives of the McCann couple in the tragic case of the abduction of Madeleine.

WELT ONLINE: You have warned, since early on, that the behaviour of Gerry and Kate McCann indicates their involvement in the crime. What has made you feel that way?

Christian Lüdke: I have, in recent years, cared for many parents who lost their children due to acts of violence. Most of them were under severe shock, feeling helpless, desperate and withdrawn. Many also quarralled. They blamed themselves hugely for not having looked after their child adequately.

WELT ONLINE: It was different with the McCanns?

Lüdke: They live very differently. In public, they are harmonious. Already, after only a few days they went jogging, as if that was a normal thing to do, always appearing together. These parents took matters into their own hands instead of leaving matters in the hands of the police. They distanced themselves from their two other children by going on a European tour, that to me is very strange.

WELT ONLINE: Maybe it was an accident?

Lüdke: No. In such a case, after the first shock, they would have trusted the police. Both parents are doctors, in case of an accident they would have tried to get help. It is even more unrealistic that of all people two doctors would leave 3 children alone in a strange environment, even more at night. I have many doctors as patients. As professionals they know all that can happen to children, and as parents they are overly protective.

WELT ONLINE: What could have been the motive to cause their own daughter's disappearance?

viv said...

Lüdke: There are parents who have little or no emotional bond with a child. Often such a child is considered a burden that must be dealt with in a brutal or perverted way. The best known is Münchhausen Syndrome by Proxy: The mother tortures the child until it is almost dead and then calls for the police because she herself has a great desire to receive attention.

WELT ONLINE: Do you think it is possible that Madeleine's parents have killed Madeleine and together hidden her?

Lüdke: I believe both parents know what happened.

WELT ONLINE: It means, the McCanns planned the death of their daughter?

Lüdke: Yes, it is possible that they planned this a long time ago, they must at least have played it through in their minds many times and they must have spoken about it together. Otherwise they would now be contradicting each other.

WELT ONLINE: When parents are guilty of killing their child, do they block this fact out of their minds?

Lüdke: Unlikely. Both have clear consciousness, give interviews, travel. It is easier for them to lie than to speak the truth. One can probably exclude a psychosis. Many things point toward a mental disorder. The children of the McCanns were conceived artificially; that can lead to problems in parenthood. Maybe there were self esteem issues that were not openly addressed. Maybe the child had to die due to a problem that had lasted many years.

WELT ONLINE: But the McCanns seem perfect and loving parents.

Lüdke: That public image can be due to a guilt mechanism, like doing a media campaign, to distract attention away from the real problem.

WELT ONLINE: Why do they not go back to Great Britain?

Lüdke: That also speaks against them. When someone loses a child they want to be with their loved ones in a secure environment. By continuing to stay at that resort, where something terrible happened, the worse that can happen to a parent - that is, to lose a child - indicates a survival instinct. As in a mental cinema, these pictures would be constantly running over again. That the McCanns do not return home, where they would have memories of the beautiful times spent with their child, can be seen as an evasive action, in order to avoid having to deal with what they have done.

WELT ONLINE: The world thinks it is impossible that these parents can be guilty.

Lüdke: The media have possibly been taken in by the McCanns. They very quickly attended only after them, instead of around the child. The parents were accompanied like the Beckhams. In his Internet diary, the father writes almost daily about that and other irrelevant/banal things, the shirt he was wearing, what the weather is like. No father in despair could do this. Statistically 70 percent of all the violence against children is caused by the parents, family members or friends. That has unfortunately, to a large extent, not been looked into. The Portuguese police were attacked unfairly when they tried to refer in that direction.

WELT ONLINE: They have already expressed suspicions about the parents, when hardly anyone wanted to know about it. Have you been criticized for it?

Lüdke: Yes, very severely. There were open letters, a campaign on the Internet with professional associations. And I have done no more than look at the whole thing as an outsider.

viv said...

The Police are present on Twitter seeking to dispel, rumour, myth and distortion which can only further upset the public in relation to some false reports about rioting in Sussex.

Sussex Police are defensive pointing out they have sent officers to help in London, not by reducing normal policing but by sending officers who were on rest days. This is sensible and I hope all law abiding people can support the police as they attempt to protect the public and their property and restore law and order.

viv said...

May I recommend, read all about it in the Super Scum

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, that's the fecker (wee Gezzy McScam)

http://onlyinamericablogging.blogspot.com/2011/07/big-mccann-sightings-and-suspects.html

viv said...

oh that bloke is so good, he really makes me laugh!

zxzzzxxx

Mar said...

Hi Viv,

I posted a comment on here last night about Steve Bywaters and that comment he made on the Leicester Mercury. When I hit the 'send' button it said 'message pending approval' but it hasn't appeared yet. Did you not get it?

There was a link to Steve's post in the body of the message, perhaps your computer picked it up as spam?

x Mar.

Wizard said...

Hi Viv and Di,

I was just catching up. Pat Brown’s search for Madeleine fund – I read this differently. It is one thing to have the chief suspects orchestrating a search but a different kettle of monkfish to have a neutral lead search, which wouldn’t suppress or misdirect. There is no suggestion by Brown that she would give the money to the McCanns for their search. The search would be separate a one. I do not believe Brown is pro McCann I think she is quite the opposite but of course with Carter Ruck about you have to be careful.

Will Brown actually use the money to research this case further – only time will tell.

Wizard said...

I was watching Sky News last night as London burnt. It was like a war zone. I don’t know what you think about the situation but imo the cause can be planted firmly at Cameron’s door despite the spin Teresa May put on it last night. Tonight 13,000 police will be on duty for the next 24 hours in London.

viv said...

Hiya Wiz, great to hear from you and know you are OK, in spite being in the middle of a war zone!

I am always keen to hear your alternative view, but it still seems very weird to me that she would state that she needs to search for Madeleine in PDL...given that is exactly what the McCanns want.

I also find her complete lack of knowledge concerning UK law unforgivable given she has set herself up as some "expert" on the case. Suggesting to some who are no better than vigilantes without any thinking skills of their own that Maddie's body could be hidden at Rothley and Brit cops have no means of checking is more than troubling me.

Brown is selling a book to raise fund to search for Maddie in PDL, so are Kate and Gerry. Brown is putting out some false and misleading information, so are Kate and Gerry. Any large campaign that is seen to be canvassing the evidence could get a judge to throw any prosecution case out, that is Pat's avowed intention.

She denies that Brit cops are doing anything at all, I have never been able to accept that. If you have nothing more than the indications of a couple of dogs, then you simply do not have a case.

viv said...

Hiya Wiz

I think the cause is disaffected youth who will just leap on any excuse to cause mayhem, in this instance, as before, the cops shooting someone.

There has been a very frightening increase in bureaucracy at the expense of real policing and gradually the real police have been replaced by ineffective community supporters who have no powers whilst the real police are stuck in the office, doing the paperwork.

When we do have disaffected young black men in particular, jobless and angry, it is a terrible error to further erode police numbers. The only way they see to make a life for themselves is to get a gun and be a gangster, we need the police but we also need solutions to underlying social problems. We are never likely to get a conservative party who are social workers, but cutting the police, that is a new one and clearly an utter disaster given their policies cause further anger and unrest.

But, at the end of the day, every person who goes out and loots and riots make a free choice to do that. Just like Kate and Gerry, they need to take responsibility for their choices in life that they make, some young black men do great in life. It is not impossible.

viv said...

and Wiz your overall message is of course correct, failing to correctly read the signals, having no empathy or insight into the harm they may cause, the overall cost of cuts in London will be billions erm wasted.

The sooner we get rid of the out of touch tory idiot, Mr Cameron and get someone with some common sense to run the country, the better.

viv said...

oh just noticed a different kettle of monkfish Wiz, lol!

viv said...

Was it Statemen like to be seen to be apparently giving into the demands of a wealthy couple in The Sun? What the public may see from this is him cow towing to the McCanns and giving them millions of free policing to pursue their ridiculous search for Maddie - that is precisely what they can read in The Sun and they believe it. He handles matters in a childish and very ill thought out way. He is completely out of touch with ordinary people, ordinary life and ordinary problems.

viv said...

What a u turn on policing as Cameron increases London Police on duty from 6000 to 16000, that will most certainly be at staggering cost as most of those additional officers will be on overtime which is paid at a very high rate. I know I was married to one!

While police officers had shown great bravery in dealing with the violence, "it is quite clear that we need more, much more, police on our streets and we need even more robust police action."


All Metropolitan Police leave had been cancelled and reinforcements called in from other forces, he said - taking the number patrolling the capital tonight to 16,000 from 6,000 last night.

viv said...

There was no plan in place to deal with this whatsoever. Will he ever admit to the country just what this has cost?

With clear and decisive action from the outset surely this could have been prevented?

viv said...

Police overtime bill in London alone, about £2.5M per night, cuts Mr Cameron?

Most of us Warwickshire Police have been sacked and then asked if they would come back as volunteers!! YOu do it for nothing Mr Cameron.

viv said...

Hiya Mar

Your comments were in the awaiting moderation box for some reason and I have published them now.

If you send me an email I can make you a member of this blog so there will be no future problems in you trying to post.

I tried to follow your link but it comes up blank.

I do think there is something decidely odd about the McCanns going in for further IVF treatment at the stage when Maddie could only have been about 6 months old. In fact that treatment is not permitted under UK guidelines and I believe that is why they went to Amsterdam to have that treatment. Kate was then ill all the way through he pregnancy with the twins and relatives had to care for Madeleine, so that vital bonding did not seem to happen.

I cannot understand why qualified doctors would ignore medical guidelines and subject Kate to further bombardment with hormones for IVF, this could obviously make her mentally and physically unwell. Did they plan to have twins and then get rid of Madeleine? Well I think they did plan to get rid of Madeleine and that would not surprise me.

As far as I am concerned, Gerry producing two sets of two old photos on photographic paper that was not available in Portugal and postcard type size that is typically printed in UK is evidence that he took those photos with him to produce to the police when Maddie was "abducted". Anyone knows that is the first thing the police ask you for when your child has gone missing and I think Gerry has always been a bit too cold and calculating, just too organised if you will.

That is why I have found it hard to accept this is murder, looking at the possibility of did they plan to get rid of her in some other way. But to honest, I think they may have planned to go out there and murder her. IMO, they most certainly went out there with the intention of getting rid of Maddie, they had their perfect family, SEan and Amelie and she simply was not wanted. She never looked as though she was wanted from the moment they had those twins, hence the absence of happy pictures of Maddie after their birth, only before or when the twins were very small.

To me there is no way any person could be just holding onto an adopted Maddie. They have to be holding onto her as part of organised paedophile gang or through someone like Brian Kennedy due to what had been happening to her. Or they murdered her. There is no other possible explanation IMO or way that Maddie could be alive in any happier circumstances.

viv said...

Mar, email address is

felicity123@live.co.uk

Please let me know if you have sent one because there are a lot of emails to that address and I sometimes miss them/do not check them all properly.


Viv xx

viv said...

If you look at the picture of Madeleine at the top of this blog, feeding little Amelie in her lovely red dress, little Maddie just looks so terribly sad, the same in her "Snow White Outfit". My heart sometimes aches for what that poor little girl must have suffered. To be that age, abused, not wanted and she was such a lovely little girl.

Poor little Maddie, I just want the police to bring her the justice she deserves, whatever they did to her on that holiday from hell.

viv said...

The defendant, who was described as a narcissist with an overdeveloped sense of self-importance and entitlement, declined to give evidence herself during the trial.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/09/mother-guilty-murdering-children?CMP=twt_gu

People might be forgiven for thinking this is Kate McCann who holds the criminal justice process in such contempt, but actually a woman who killed her two young children to get back at a man who really did not want her and it would seem, he was next.

They drove a furious speed and never even offered us anything to eat or a cup of coffee write the furious and imperious Lady kate - when actually the Portuguse Police thought they may have Maddie on video to show to kate, not that mattered much to the Lady Kate. Being normal people the Portuguese Police obviously thought it may do. She did not want to answer the police questions, she just kept muttering fu^king tosser repeatedly, she tells us. Very impressive stuff Lady kate. No one would expect a failed doctor to have any respect or consideration for lesser mortals like police officers, just trying to find out where you dumped your daughter, Shady Lady kate. God will get you nowhere Lady.

Mar said...

Thanks Viv, I've just sent you an email. Going to catch an early night as my little boy kept me up most of last night, can barely keep my eyes open.

Night night everyone!

Sleepy Mar x

Wizard said...

I think Viv, the point about the pink blanket is interesting. If the two sightings were in fact either Gerry or a stranger carrying M off into the night covered in a blanket - when was the blanket subsequently returned to the apartment and what does this mean.

a) Well, the abductor was clearly Gerry and not a stranger – he returned the blanket.

b) For a moment, let’s assume the dogs did pickup the human scent of a cadaver. Why did they not detect that smell on the bed where the blanket was placed? The made a mistake or as you have suggested Viv, Madeleine was taken away alive.

c) The Mc’s bought another blanket to replace the missing one. The original one contaminated with blood etc.

d) Madeleine was carried away in a different blanket, which was not reported missing.

e) Neither sighting was of Madeleine.

I’m sure one of those points is correct but for what it’s worth, I think neither sighting was of the abductor.

viv said...

Hiya Wiz

What an interesting post and a good way to set out the possibilities, in clear bullet form. I am afraid I tend to ramble on with one particular idea !

I also find it interesting that both Jane Tanner and The Smiths state the child was being carried in a blanket. But Jane Tanner then changes her testimony on this.

We know from the rogatory etc that Tanner does not get on with Gerry and sometimes disagrees with him.

I find it very likely that when she was coming out that night she did see Mr Carpenter, carrying his child in a blanket (it was a cold night contrary to what Gerry tells us) and she was persuaded by Gerry to give him an alibi in that way. As you say, he was undoubtedly Madeleine's "abductor" and he needed someone independent of the group, like Wilkins to give him an alibi for the time when Maddie supposedly went missing. But I do think he meant people to believe it took place in between 9.30 and 10, it was just that this earlier opportunity to alibi Gerry could not be missed.

Maybe that it also what is wrong with Russell O'Brien, why he is so angry. You can see from reading his rogatories the seething rage that he clearly feels, not just for himself but in relation to the attacks upon Jane Tanner. We can also see that this couple have now completely cut themselves off from the McCanns. It was important for Kate to show that she was on the phone to Jane, still friends with her supposedly, on the Channel 4 documentary.

I know that police often take up cold cases again when witnesses have had a chance to have a change of heart in relation to their original evidence. Now they are prepared to start telling the truth, it often happens. Covering up a very serious crime would eat away at your conscience and prevent a happy and normal life. I think Tanner is a pretty good mom from what I have seen of her with her girls. It was very pointed the way the McCanns did not recently sponsor her and she did not sponsor them either.

It did seem like clockwork that as Russell came and sat down, so Kate jumped up. I have firstly thought the Smiths were telling the truth, then thought again, then thought again.

I am certaintly prepared to revisit that once more and think, could they have really seen Gerry that night and was Madeleine alive, as I have often suggested?

Oh, I have rambled on again, as thoughts enter my head lol!

So, the pink blanket, long gone by the time the dogs arrive.

I still tend to think that Gerry is so incredibly scheming he planted that cadaver odour. He knows he cannot be prosecuted for something he did not do and he knows he cannot make pots of money out of it after all.

But I know he got rid of Maddie, there is absolutely no doubt about that, "where is the child", that is how much his little girl means to him, she is just a piece of merchandise, he cannot even bother with her name, let alone tears.

viv said...

*can* make pots of money of course, and I have no doubt, doing so has always been a major driving force behind Gerry McCann. He revels in power and importance, in fact I think they both do. Mixing with the rich and powerful and having the hard cash to do so.

I think they are both so disordered they honestly believed that getting rid of Madeleine opened that door to them. They genuinely believed, in their utterly deluded way, that they could just rubbish the Portuguese Police, that they would be out of the jurisdiction of the British Police. The cold reality for these two is they are in the jurisdiction of both the British and the Portuguese Police and both aim to put them where they belong. That has caused them to rage at successive Home Secretaries, look at all this evidence that Maddie was abducted, erm, by a stranger. The Home Secretaries just dont see it, neither does any normal person, they see Gerry.

Di said...

Hi Viv & all

Max Hastings article in the D Mail today re: the riots, is well worth a read. Max sums these idiots up very well.

viv said...

Hiya Di, will have a look thanks.

Via a potty McCann supporter on Twitter I was drawn to a Daily Mail article where it says it has emerged the McCanns made Maddie a Ward of Court last year and are now seeking to force the Ch Cons of LP to disclose his file of papers to them.

This was obviously Clarence spinning what he knew was going to come out and of course, it was not the McCanns in 2007, it was Mrs Justice Hogg in 2008 who made Maddie a Ward.

I know I have mentioned this before but I think it is worth re-visiting. It is pretty extradordinary that they even get a spinner to lie about this for them and no doubt why, very unusually in a family law case, Mrs Justice Hogg wanted her Order to be published.

I think it also confirms that so far as British authorities were concerned, whilst they knew the McCanns were involved they were not certain they actually murdered Madeleine, they may have caused her to disappear, alive.

viv said...

Mar I have now read the comment that was apparently posted in the Leicester Mercury in 2008.

Essentially he claims the McCanns planned to go to PDL to murder Madeleine and that Kate had schooled Jane Tanner in sedating the kids but Gerry topped it up with a massive dose causing Jane to feel she was responsible.

He also says he is going to get the McCanns prosecuted in UK for this offence.

Something like that may well be the truth but I fail to see how Steve Bywaters has evidence to prove it. But it is an interesting theory and does tie in with the hold that the McCanns seem to have over a couple who do appear to be unwilling to actually be their friends, Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien.

A long time ago on this blog I recall we did speculate about Russell as a consultant in Accident & Emergency struggling to save Madeleine s life. As far as I am concerned, drugs are definitely a feature of what they really did. Both Kate and Gerry have referred to drugs being used which makes me think the police do have some hard evidence of this.

Sadly to say drugs are not just used to kill children, they are also used to sexually abuse them.

I think all options have to remain open, we just do not know for sure what they did, other than they were most definitely involved. I also feel very strongly they planned to go out there and do that, most certainly Gerry and David Payne. I take this mainly from the interviews of David Payne, the questions the police were asking him and his answers, together of course with Gerry having those photos to hand to the police that were not even up to date. But Everton in particular, a real good fund raiser. Of course he knew beforehand he could make this fund go ballistic, pretty Brit child, doctors, and his contacts and gift of the gab. He knew alright, I just dont think it got quite as massive as he planned and the police and the general public, bloggers have done his plans a lot of harm. Good for us!

viv said...

I also think that for the most part, professional bloggers on behalf of the McCanns are now silent.

Those on twitter either come into the nasty old tory brigade who see this as necessary to protect their way of life or for the most part, silly school girls who cannot even read a newspaper and a court order and see which is correct out of the two. They prefer the Daily Mail version which Clarence was regularly contributing to, to Mrs Justice Hogg herself, that is pretty pathetic!

viv said...

The comment apparently posted by Steve Bywaters of London in March 2008 to the Leicester Mercury can be found here, no wonder they had to close it to McCann comments, I expect the Police asked them to!

http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2008/10/kate-and-gerry-mccann-what-did-you-do.html

Di said...

Hi Viv & all

Who is Steve Bywaters? I recognise the name but can't place him and for some unknown reason, I am unable to open the page.

I would be appalled to think anyone could plan the death of their child, but sadly in this case nothing would surprise me. Like you say Viv, the readily available photos, not to mention the immediate setting up of the fund and many photo opportunities.

I would still love to know who tipped off the PJ that Kate was planning to hand over custody of Madeleine to someone else?
For Kate to be asked the question, someone had to have talked to the PJ or LP.

I agree the pros have gone very quiet, maybe they are just planning their next move, like the McCanns I would imagine, and that is something I believe could happen.

viv said...

Hiya Di, The comment of Steve Bywaters can also be found here and on Steel Magnolia:

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/seeking-steve-bywaters/

He is just someone who posted a comment and people have latched onto it, due to its pretty dynamic nature. I am sure he is no wiser than the rest of us. But it is interesting he was talking about murder back in March 2008 which was before we had the PJ files.

I think that whatever it was, was most certainly planned but remain unconvinced it was murder rather than her planned kidnapping, to me either remain a clear possibility. One thing, the McCanns behaviour is certainly not like a couple who just accidentally caused her death, the lack of emotion and the endless plotting and scheming tell me this is a couple, particularly him, who simply have no remorse whatsoever, that is only seen in the very worst of criminals.

That is a particularly damning thing you mention, the fact that Kate was thinking of getting rid of Maddie to a relative. British Police were doing background research and I would imagine the information came from their inquiries. I think it always pays to remember we know so little, never having been allowed to know the content of their files, other than perhaps odd things like the GASPAR statement and I wonder at why we were allowed to see that - sometimes it is like the powers that be release something just to keep the McCanns in check. Of course she (Kate) may have been thinking that way to save Maddie from what Gerry had planned. That seems to correspond with her open passage from The Bible. But my sympathy for her has reduced still further since she wrote that repulsive and self serving book.

I still have to wonder if even the so called antis that are left are really pros, they are such complete nutcases who very much part company with the actual facts that we know. Like the insistence there is definite evidence Madeleine died, clearly there is not and what there is could be explained by the antics of the manipulative Mr Gerry McCann or even Grime just wanting to produce a result and further his self employed career. We never hear further from him do we?

viv said...

It does seem inherently unlikely to me that everyone the LP have spoken to about the McCanns has given a glowing character reference for them. There is a limit to how far they can control the evidence against them, even though with the help of their private investigators and the one helping to pay them, Mr Brian Kennedy, that was their clear intention.


I believe the various agencies in UK will now have massive files of evidence in relation to this case and when we start to learn of its contents, we will all be very shocked. I still marvel at people who have the temerity to think they know it all and can even "help the police", that is just laughable! Take note Pat Brown, I am including you, who just quotes bloggers and newspapers along with some of the seamiest commentators on this case!

viv said...

I have sent Mar a link to join us and it will be nice to welcome another who has a more reasoned view!

I suppose after four years it is probably not reasonable of me to think there would be many serious people still wishing to talk about this case. That is why we are so few on here!

I have found that on Twitter, for the most part, it is like delving into pure madness, from both so called sides, there is not much to choose between them.

viv said...

Poster on Jo Morais makes v good point about scheming Gerry and his release dates!


Regarding my previous post about Madeleine last clothes. Well, the last picture was delivered after Gerry first trip home. How convenient. If they had delivered that picture on may 3 or 4, most probably the police will ask that clothes. Was that picture the last of Madeleine? Why there is so few pictures from the girl on that holidays?

Mar said...

Thanks Viv, glad to be on board.

I'm still fascinated about this case, even after four years, so I'll follow it until the end.

It's hard to keep going though because there is very little new information out there - apart from Kate's book, which I refuse to buy or read. Don't have the stomach for it.

All we can do is speculate on what we already know and, as you say, it's only a tiny fraction of what the police know, so what chance do we have to get it right? It's very frustrating, to me at least, I really hope SY/Met were more vocal about this review. It just seems to have been forgotten completely.

I also find it utterly ridiculous when people post SY's address and say they are going to send them this or that. Get real people!!! Unless you have actual proof of any wrongdoing or are a witness, just leave them alone to get on with their work. They most likely ignore you or think you are a nutter, or both.

viv said...

Welcome Mar, I think we feel we have come so far and seen so much spin and unpleasantness from Team McScamm and their supporters we just cannot give up now. And of course, the case is fascinating and want to know what happened to little Maddie.

Personally, if she is still alive, and I know that is a big if, I want her rescued, but as the years progress that seems less and less likely. I used to believe that when Gerry felt the time was right, and Kate was behaving herself, he would make Maddie re-appear but suspect the harm to her is just too great for that to ever happen.

I am glad to hear we are like minded in relation to Kate's rotten book with that horrible picture on the front. I cannot understand so called "antis" who say they have bought it. To me it would just corrupt my thinking on this case because the lady had four years and the chance to read what everyone was saying to think up every word. Even so, from what I can gather, she did herself no favours. If it was intended as some sort of a defence maybe it is, but that would demonstrate she knows they are going to court. Wise thought in that case, I am sure The Home Office and London Met mean business with the McCanns.

Of course, we are not treated to any further new information, as ever, the only news is what the McCanns choose to create and that is not really news, it just confirms our thoughts about them.

I think that the clamour in relation to this case would only cause the Home Office and London Met to be every more cagy and it is true to say they are always highly secretive about such a case, unless they need to make a public appeal of course. I suspect that is not necessary, they have hundreds of witness statements, I am sure.

But they do make clear the lines are still open for any new evidence. As you say, people who suggest they are going to write to them just because they have been blogging about the case for four years are quite mad! THat is not evidence and certain people who apparently have a legal qualification really ought to understand that and not keep on wasting police time with their dreary and monotonous correspondence quoting from newspapers which is just ridiculous! You are right, they are nutters!! I pity some junior officer who has to pluck up the courage to read Tony Bennett and Co! What a shameful waste of police time, we the tax payer have to pay for this, he should put that tape back across...

Di said...

Hi Viv & all

Welcome Mar.

Thanks Viv, perhaps I have seen Steve Bywaters name mentioned on twitter, it rang a bell somewhere.

The poster on J Morais does have a point. If it had been disclosed to the PJ on the night of the 3rd and the supposed last picture of Madeleine handed over to them, I am sure the PJ would have asked for the clothes. As it was we were told Madeleine was last seen in her PJ's hence a similar pair being photographed for the papers.

Why did Gerry have to go back to Rothley to provide Madeleine's DNA and produce the last photo, which many say was photoshopped.

More importantly, did the PJ ever receive the clothes Madeleine was wearing in the last photo, which Kate states in her book is what attracted someone to abduct her, although I fail to see the sense in Kate's statement. I ask when did this abductor find the time to stalk Madeleine? she spent most of her waking hours in the creche.

viv said...

Hiya Di

I suppose the name Steve Bywater did get a certain notoriety in the blogosphere due to the pretty inflammatory comments that he made about what may have happened to Madeleine, although he does not use the may word!

I was tweeting about this earlier on, why did Brit cops have to accompany Gerry to Rothley to get a control sample of Madeleine's DNA off her pillow? I have always thought it was like him being frog marched and ordered back to the UK for that purpose otherwise they would probably have just broken in. They were always in serious trouble from day one. It is really quite incredible that they actually sent several police of inspector rank to act as liaison officers, along with two really high ups, a Detective Chief Superintendent and a Detective Superintendent. The top brass we were flying out there immediately just demonstrates how serious this was considered to be. SOCA, Scotland Yard, security services, you name it! There is no way on earth this was considered to be just some "accidental death" or stranger abduction abroad. It was indeed Serious Organised Crime.

If, as seems patently obvious, the McCanns were not even forthcoming with her clothing for her DNA to be accurately extracted from it would have been more than obvious to all of the police involved the McCanns were involved in her disappearance. I think we just have to accept Goncalo's book was just written to sell and perhaps annoy the McCanns and maybe British Police because he wanted all the glory but made some bad mistakes. Prior to Brit cops being able to get there, the McCanns had the chance to get rid of all the forensic evidence and trashed the crime scene before the Pt cops were even called.

Kate has got some front suggesting in her book it was the provocative outfit that they did not hand over to the police that enticed some sex offender. "I know I was there". Well indeed Kate, it is all about pre-empting what they know is going to come out IMO.

Why did she insist in Panorama and to my certain memory on at least one other occasion the apartment was "broken into"? The woman lives in some bizarre fantasy world!

viv said...

I know I have said it many times before, Gerry did not really need to worry about the abductor's DNA being in the apartment because he was the abductor and had a legitimate right to be there. He needed to make sure the police were confused in their attempts to do forensics however.

I tweeted earlier on about how, in the PJ final report they set the scene of the McCanns and Co immediately getting the media on board and the PJ then being bombarded with a deluge of fantastical information which was highly prejudicial to their search for Madeleine because they had to check it out, but for the apparently abducted Madeleine, time was of the essence. Gerry made damn sure the Portuguese Police did not stand a chance, and Brit cops were going over in droves, senior experts. I can imagine he did resent all of that and would be angry at both as he clearly was.

To me the book and film produced about the so called accidental death are just a micky take.

viv said...

If Brit cops actually forced Gerry to produce the last photo and it is genuine, then he successfully delayed the production of it for plenty long enough to make it impossible for them to get their hands on those items of clothing, or even if they did, Kate learned how to use the washing machine.

Shame to subject such expensive items to so many heavy washes!


Just to pile on the pressure and make life impossible for the PJ Brian Kennedy and his son, together with the useless private investigators feed them some more rubbish that they knew they would have to investigate. Saves them sniffing around the reality. If they were spiriting Madeleine or her body away, they bought themselves plenty of time and tied the PJ up on useless missions.

viv said...

For the time being the blog is open only to members of this blog.

I have taken this decision because blogs about the McCanns on The Telegraph have suddenly been suspended. This may have been at the request of the police and I most certainly do not wish to prejudice a serious criminal case.

London Met are investigating, we know that, and I think we must all be very careful not to damage their investigations or the prospects of a trial.

Mar said...

Do you really think they are being shut down because of a possible trial? I'm not convinced. I'd like to think that's the case but I have a feeling this is just another Carter-Rucking.

Good call on the blog though. Hope we can carry on discussing the case here in a civilised manner.

Getting really fed up with some users on Twiter and/or the fora, they are like a dog with a bone, day in day out twitting/posting the same old rants. I won't name names - and I don't mean you Viv! - but they really should change the record!

About Tony Bennet, I used to think he was a good thing for those of us who question the official version of events. Then very quickly changed my mind to the complete opposite!

He might be a very nice, intelligent man but to me he just comes across as an obsessed stalker who doesn't know when to stop. Leafleting the McCann's neighbours is a step (or several steps!) too far. I think he gives us all a very bad name.

viv said...

Hiya Mar

I have no way of knowing whether this was the work of McCann lawyers or the police but the timing just seems right to me.

The phone hackers are all bailed to return to the police station in October and I still feel this is a linked investigation to the McCann one.

It is seriously corrupt for the Murdoch empire to write lies and spin in their titles at the behest of Gerry McCann and Clarence Mitchell.

I have closed the blog down before when I have been concerned the McCanns were about to be charged and then re opened again when I was wrong about that. Let us just play it by ear and see what happens.

I too get sick of these people, it is almost like many of them want to have an ongoing discussion with the most idiotic pro McCanns and it makes us all look just as stupid.

As for Tony Bennett, when is he ever going to stop trying to directly interfere in the course of justice and when is he ever going to write an article that is accurate to what we know, rather than just quoting newspaper articles we have been told Murdoch staff just made articles up and Kate and Gerry want us to believe that rubbish!

Di said...

Hi Viv & Mar

A good move Viv, who knows what is happening at the moment.

Mar, I can't make Tony Bennett out. He once mentioned he was worried about losing everything if sued, and was not prepared to do that. Since then, he has made the most irresponsible decisions.

Is Tony goading the McCanns, or is he in their pocket?

viv said...

Hiya Di

Indeed who does know what is happening, but I suspect quite a bit.

What is this Petition all about for some public inquiry into the McCann case I wonder? How can there be a public inquiry when there is already a confidential police inquiry ongoing.

Sometimes, as you suggest you just do not know which side of the fence these people are supposed to be on, but I do think the McCanns will do anything to change the subject in relation to London Met investigating them as they quite obviously are. The antics of Tony Bennett and his endless petitions would suit them well enough I am sure. It also seems to me that there are very few people left actually talking about this case on the net and the McCanns would like to keep the numbers up, I have a feeling I know why and it is not just to do with book sales.

I am very bored with the McCanns and all of the silly bloggers with their extravagant claims. Result please London Met.

I am happy to keep quiet now for the sake of that, we are certainly not missing much on the blogosphere. Whatever there was to reveal or discuss, we already did that!

viv said...

Pat Brown is just being ignored with her book plugging/I am doing a plugging interview tweets, very familiar modus operandi! Given I feel she is spinning for the McCanns, that is good news.

It would be good if there was an almost total blackout and then .....really good!

If that is the case, what will the McCanns try next to get people talking about them again?

viv said...

Having said that, I do find this blogger thoughtful and interesting, much of what he/she writes does make sense and link to the evidence that we have. It was very dramatic, running back to the restaurant, not to mention highly suspicious given she knew right away Maddie just got abducted! Ahem.

viv said...

http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com/

Tavares de Almeida's mind set at rest

In the intercalary report Inspector Tavares de Almeida wondered yet again about the strange course of events on the staged evening of May 3rd. Of course he only suspected it being staged, but we now know it had been staged and can therefore put his mind at rest in at least one point. This is what he found inexplicable regarding Kate raising the alarm:

It is not understandable why she didn’t use the mobile phone to call Gerald or the group or, even simpler, that she didn’t walk out on the balcony from where she could be perfectly heard by the members of the group.


I think we can now reveal what her reason was for the above. A phone call as well as shouting from the balcony would have put a finger on the actual time of her first alert. This could not be allowed since the body was still to be removed and an official alert at that time might have alerted unwanted help in the "search".

That is why she went to the Tapas bar and informed the table more quietly without alerting the staff and other guests and only much later shouted it from the rooftops erm... the balcony to place the timing of the alert to a later time.
.
Annabel
Platinum Poster





Number of posts: 2089
Location: Europe
Warning:


Registration date: 2009-08-25

viv said...

"Gillyspot" Anti police, anti Kate, but Pro Gerry and Pro Barmy Bennett

Gerry came out looking like an honest person, more honest than Met Police apparently, that gave me a WTF moment, for sure LOL

GILLYSPOT MOM OF TWO
by GasparStatement
@ @Chicane68 But what about the "no stones unturned" even Gerry #McCann answered PJ & came out looking far more honest, not as deceptive IMO
24 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
GILLYSPOT MOM OF TWO
by GasparStatement
@ @Chicane68 @BacardiKid @metpolice No I want them to show what £3.5 million has been spent on as don't so far appear to be honest! #mccann
23 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

viv said...

You can read the first fifty odd pages of Kate's book online.

I think she should have called it the Kate trivia memoirs. Even chapters that are headed up Madeleine or Gerry continue to tell us about her pregnancy woes, and her constant pain at all manner of things.

Kate just cannot get beyond the idea we find her life fascinating, but it is ordinary, mundane and mind numbingly boring, (at least the details she gives anyway) does she think she is the only woman who has felt sick during pregnancy or found labour painful, or got a degree or a man etc etc.

The only way I can see she manages to mention Madeleine is to tell us it was not a good quality frozen foetus but it worked, or she was a nuisance, or Madeleine was "compact" or just how Kate absolutely adored her, which again is about Kate telling us how nice she is, not Madeleine at all.

The book ought to carry a sick rubbish warning!

Di said...

Hi Viv

I have followed Johanna for some time and I still can't fathom which side of the fence she is on.

One minute Johanna supports J Morais, the next she calls her irresponsible etc., This is a common theme on many forums.

I must admit, some of Johanna's comments have taken me by suprise, could it be more than one person, nothing would surprise me.

Di said...

Sorry for the missing r.

viv said...

Hiya Di

I have seen comments by Johanna but could not say I had formed a view other than I think she seems ok mostly.

It has been my view for a very long time that unless you support Goncalo Amaral and his theory you are not really wanted by Joana Morais. I do think her main reason for existing is to sell Goncalo's version of events which to me, just cannot be the truth of what happened to little Maddie.

In fact it often seems that Gerry and Goncalo have quite a lot in common, cashing in on the dogs and the demise of little Maddie McCann. It just seems very strange to me that both sides of the supposed fence behave in exactly the same way, fund raising paypal buttons blogs books. There is clearly some very bizarre conduct going on, and money always seems to be the route cause of it.

There is still this perverse insistence that there are just two options, either she died in the apartment or she was abducted by a stranger. One is not allowed to think anything else may have happened! But I find it highly plausible that the police were correct to look at the McCanns and their group of friends as being suspects in the kidnapping of Madeleine, no doubt to do with reasons that Dr Gaspar explains rather well. Is this what all this blogging is about, to make srue the public are not discussing that. For those of us that do, there is no apparent threatening letters from Carter Ruck, that is for sure.

viv said...

The McCanns wanted an open and "transparent" review where they would have all of the evidence amalgamated and accessible to them. They petition for this.

Now we have all these so called antis asking for exactly the same, completely ignoring the confidential and ongoing police investigation, just as the McCann wish to do. They have their own agenda to plug.

When are these so called antis just going to shut up and Kate and Gerry realise you cannot control the police confidentially investigating you and withholding that investigation from you to stop you perverting the course of justice, which is clearly their major ambition in life. They care not how much of the so called Find Maddie Fund they blow in, defending themselves is pretty important to them.

What criminal does now want to know where the police are at and whether they are going to have to face justice. The McCanns clearly believe they are clever and they have lots of money to pay Mitchell and all their lawyers. They even had Murdoch and Co spinning for them. I do not believe Kate's book is going to fund the ongoing spending spree these two want on trying to figure out how they get themselves out of the mire they put themselves into. If you do not scheme lie and flagrantly break the law you have no need to endlessly fear what the police are up to. I want these two (and in fact all of the TAPAS group) to endlessly fear the police! That is no less than they deserve.

They bemoaned how awful it would be for them if the Portuguese Police just shelved the case because it would leave the stigma hanging over them for ever, that is what has happened. And there is no way the Portuguese Police are ever going to please this couple by pandering to them and their sycophants and opening it again in Portugal. The Brit criminals are in for the long haul with British Justice. And I continue to hope and pray Met Police will deliver on that one, even if it means reduced charges just to put them where they belong.

Di said...

Hi Viv

I have thought for some time now, as I am sure you have, that many anti's are actually pros just wanting to get their hands on any new info.

I really do not know where this case is going anymore. Hubby has just said, how many times are you going to get your hopes up that justice will be done?

The truth is nothing does happen, why?

Viv, I am now in total agreement, there is something so sinister behind Madeleine's disappearance and we the public are being kept in the dark.

I spoke to an ex Freemason the other day, he got to the second handshake and realised it was not for him. He was fortunate that he had a family member higher up that waved his membership.

It bothered him greatly that most conversations were held behind closed doors, and money was always having to be donated. He was also told, promotion in his job was most unlikely, unless he stayed in the Freemasons, thankfully he was not intimidated.

I asked him, do you have to support another Freemason no matter what they have done even if illegal? his response, YES, you are meant to give full support, also financial, no questions asked.

What I found interesting was, if this talk was common at normal meetings, just what was discussed behind closed doors.

A cult by anyones standards and imo something to be very worried about. After all these Freemasons are running every part of our society.

viv said...

Hiya Di

Some years back now, I had a four year relationship with a private investigator who I met through instructing him to work on my cases.

He was very friendly with the officer who put the Birmingham Six in prison and they both were adamant they were guilty.

This private investigator was not satisfied in earning about £1000 per week many years ago, he was determined to become a Mason and he did, I am not sure it was the police officer who got him in, in fact I think it was a local accountant.

I realised in the end that I was just useful to him as a source of income and to pick my brains constructing affidavits for lawyers etc. He was a single minded man who just needed to be rich and he really needed to be a Mason. One night he took me to dinner with a group of people and warned me, don't embarrass me with your left wing talk. It turned out that almost the whole group, unlike him, were keen labour supporters. He was the essential snob who had come from a poor home background as a child.

So all I can say is that many people who seem to be involved in this case fit the bill for being Masons. I think the reality is that just like that private investigator Gerry is hungry for more and more power and money because that makes him feel better. I think they feel angry at what they have come from and have something to prove to the world, a chip on their shoulder.

Gerry looks at high ranking politicians, the Whitehouse and he smells what makes him feel good, power and money. The same with Murdoch. We know for a fact that Gerry single mindedly sought out variour politicians and News International staff, to be "onside" and spread his media campaign which he quite obviously saw as the road to infinite riches.

I think Gerry is the type of man who would sell his own daughter to move himself up that ladder and a mere £85K per year salary just would not cut it for him. That does not provide the sort of world that Cameron and Brooks move in.

We know he had prior meetings with Yates (who I would say is most certainly a tory) and Cameron.

I still believe that Cameron is just not clever enough to stop the lid coming off all of this, but I do think he is trying. He wanted to bring his tame American in to run London Met and that would enable him to control what they do. I really hope he does not succeed in that ambition.

People like "Rothley Pillow" on twitter make a couple of things patently obvious, they are highly political, losing no opportunity to snipe at Gordon Brown and they also want their tweets to be broadcast. I got a lecture from him on how to do it! He is also fouth mouthed and rude which would seem to suggest he wants "anti" McCanns to be perceived as uncouth and yobbish, just like him!

Di said...

Hi Viv

Another interesting article from Spudgun.

link

Di said...

Viv

Quote

I still believe that Cameron is just not clever enough to stop the lid coming off all of this, but I do think he is trying. He wanted to bring his tame American in to run London Met and that would enable him to control what they do. I really hope he does not succeed in that ambition.

----------------

If Scotland Yard have anything to do with it, it will not happen, this is the last thing they want.

I am sure all political parties across the board were in Murdochs hands, more and more evidence of corruption is being released, something which can hopefully change things for the better. I live in hope.

Di said...

I was sent this link re: The riots. I love people who are not afraid to speak out and say what most people are probably thinking.

link

viv said...

Hiya Di, just clicked on yr link, does not work, can u try again!

xxx

viv said...

Hiya Di

I think Boris Johnson, London Met itself and Management Board and of course Labour and many other politicians oppose Cameron's wish to just politicise and control London Met. It would the most terrible thing if it does happen, surely not with all that opposition. He is another Blair, out to abuse and control but does not have the style of Blair, he just comes across as a potty mouthed yob.

London met certainly do seem to be pressing on with scant regard for how they hurt Cameron's feeling and he does not even have the personality style to try and humour them, all police chiefs feel their hackles rising. Surely, they are very powerful enemies.

I am sickened by him also politicising the judiciary and this Recorder today handing out the most absurd four year term on two young lads who were just plain daft writing silly rubbish on Facebook. That sentence is just draconian and quite dreadful, the same as people get for caving someone's skull in, in a murderous attack which are just horrible to read about and pictures, glad I am no longer a PO sometimes!

The rot really seems to have set in, in UK with the premiership of Tony Blair in about 1999. He must have known about phone hacking etc but turned a blind eye. Let us hope things do get cleaned up and we can start afresh, but politicians oh dear!

Di said...

Oh Dear

link

Di said...

Viv I will e-mail it to you.

viv said...

Hiya again Di, I will have to nag Luke to get my email running again, he has formatted my computer!

I think the problem with Spudgun and so many others is they get just a bit too carried away.

I know that when I am trying to get something I want I can get it. I am educated and I know what to say and where to go. I used to help clients who just did not know how to do that, even to get state benefits.

That is what I see with Kate and Gerry when you compare with say Ben Needham's mom, they are educated and know exactly what they are doing and yes, they had clout, they are doctors and people did listen to them.

Gerry ramped up a media storm and then said he needed help with the media and he got it. I do not see this as a conspiracy just a well to do couple knowing how to get what they want.

But Clarence Mitchell, he was serving a Labour government but he is obviously a tory. He was privilege to confidential information and then went and worked for Kate and Gerry. To me, that is where the conspiracy and the problems start. Why do people forget it was that odious McMillan Scott who took them to Brussels? There is something there I am sure, almost unprintable what I imagine about that man and his interest in the rights of children.

People do not seem to understand there is just no way the Portuguese could properly investigate and prosecute this case, it was all to do with serious British offenders in Britain and Spudgun did not even seem to realise that Portuguese Officers simply cannot come over here and carry on as though they are in Portugal, there are laws that say only our police do police work. Although a new law was being brought out to allow 5 hours worth of work in another European state following criminals etc prior to getting the Home force involved. That is interesting in itself, I honestly think sometimes the law is being change to make it easier to get the likes of Kate and Gerry. In April this year a bribery act was brought out making it possible for us to prosecute those who go abroad to commit bribery, perhaps like Kennedy and Gerry for example!

OK rambled on, xxx

Di said...

link

Hope this now works.

viv said...

Oh thanks darling your link does now work although have not read it yet, but I find the whole thing highly amusing!

I just cannot believe Smethurst had friends posting obscene filth on his facebook account for Bennett to copy, surely not?

Bennett posts up he has been sued like some bloody badge of honour, I do believe that man is just completely mad!

His sue list is not even accurate!

xx

viv said...

Well your link was re Bennett and now it is Mr Angry, Oh they got no money cuz they spent it on a blackberry and a gram of heroin, init.

What he says re the police I entirely agree with, there are not enough of them and their powers are limited. They should not have to get special dispensensation from the idiot who was abroad to bring out a water cannon, it would have cooled them and the flames in seconds. Luke and I watched it on TV and both were thrilled when they charged with big dogs and horses, when they choose to riot they need some tough discipline. I was very upset to see one police officer his eye just pouring with blood. They should not have to face a baying mob outnumbered and ill equipped, would Mr Cameron like to have a go!

viv said...

There was a man on twitter earlier, one of those charity do gooders who thinks he is a miracle worker reforming dangerous offenders. He can, apparently, undo all the years of their twisted upbringing and make them into little sweeties, he just uses victims to work the magic. Got to say he made me rather angry, he spoke as though victims should just hang around until he has worked the magic, then he can wheel the victims into the prison cells so the thug who raped or beat them up can say sorry.

He told me he trains on victim empathy, I would say he was full of his own self importance on what he thinks he can do with very dangerous people and had absolutely no victim empathy himself. To him victims are just some pawn in a little make believe game he wants to play. Cameron is similar, he is going to heal the broken society, quite how he does not explain. Perhaps he is going to start touring sink estates telling girls to get a man for a father figure for their kids, that will really help I am sure!

Di said...

Exactly Viv,

Can I also say imo, this so called brilliant idea of Cameron re: National Service for 16 year olds in the community is an absolute farce! It won't work end of.

viv said...

How nice of Brian Kennedy Di, Saving the Family in Flintshire and Cheshire LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgE4X9cJoaw&feature=player_embedded#at=125

viv said...

Never thought I would admit this but Bennett really is pretty good at dishing the dirt on Brian Kennedy. He was previously involved in corruption in 2001/02 paying Rotherham to stay in the first division rather than get promoted to the Premier League which would have hurt his own club.

Then he sinks a load of money into Team McCann, then, at the end of 2010 he hands over £60K for homeless families to learn to help themselves,presumably he would rather say he is giving money to charity than hand a load over to the Inland Revenue.

More sinisterly, in one of Bennett's reports, he talks about a meeting on a yacht, it kind of reminded me what may have happened to little Maddie. Of course, Kennedy may have just seen the McCanns as an avoid the taxman slush fund generously handing over some dosh to help his erm honest accounting procedures which he insisted were open to any inspection. Very nice of him to still be offering the services of his lovely lawyer who got the sneaky little injunction going against Goncalo before he knew anything about it! Bennett certainly has it in for Smellhurst but paedophile links, I am holding back on that one for the time being. Thinking things may be possible is different to getting sued for saying it!!

viv said...

What I meant to say is, did Kennedy decide to start being benevolent to a different charity case at the end of 2010 because things were just getting too hot in being so kind to the charity couple, Kate and Gerry McScam?

Wizard said...

Hi Viv and Di,

Clarence: has anyone noticed what a job hopper he is. He cannot stay in one place for long – a man on a mission to reach the pinnacle of his career before retirement or do his employers ‘let him go?’

A man who can walk the walk but when it comes to talking the talk he falls short.

Wizard said...

Kennedy always appears as a man that hates to be proven wrong. He will do what he has to do to ensure a win – whether that is legally or morally he will bullishly fight his corner to appear correct in all his decisions, come what may.

Di said...

Hi Viv & Wizard

Wizard I agree, Brian Kennedy is a force to be reckoned with. He has built up and also downed companies at the drop of a hat, leaving many loyal staff unemployed.

Yet Brian Kennedy is more than happy, it would appear, to financially fund and support the McCanns, two complete strangers, for however long it takes to find Madeleine.

IMO the only answer, without going down any of the more sinister routes being talked about on various forums, is The Masons.

Do either of you remember Brian's daughter, at least that is who she said she was, posting on 3A's defending his kind nature etc. and that her father was only supporting the McCann's because he had been touched by their plight?

Whether she was for real is anyones guess, and whether Brian Kennedy was just taken in the same way as many people were, who knows, but it all seems a bit surreal to me.

viv said...

Hiya Wiz and Di

I think Clarence was a brilliant spinner but is now rather contactless. I also think employers start off wanting him but then find out he is just too close too trouble and serious corruption to actually do their PR business much good at all. On a more basic level I also think they would find him very bombastic and not the least bit keen to take orders, he likes to all the shots. To business proprietors, I think he would rub them up the wrong way, big style.

Di, Sorry I know u like Spudgun but I think he talks a lot of hot air, particularly about a public inquiry, Bennett's baby from the outset. That would stop a criminal case dead in its tracks and so I am always goingto be vehemently opposed to that. I think Masons do like to be seen as charity givers but Kennedy's conduct was criminal if he really did interfere with witnesses as described. That is a serious offence, more so in view of the nature of the case.

Tony Bennett says he received a package weighin one stone this afternoon, Carter Rucks case of contempt against him. He photographed both the McCanns and Smethurst homes and leafleted in their areas, this is clearly criminal harassment and would certaintly frighten me if he did that. Something ought to be done about him!

Oh and one of his supporters says I have bcome a Pro McCann LOL

Di said...

Hi Viv

Spudgun, from what I have seen on twitter, is pushing people to sign the E-Petition, waste of time imo but Yes I do find some of his articles interesting.

As you know Viv, I have always said BK is known to have intimidated witnesses along with his son. Why, this has never been acted upon is beyond me. What I have learnt over the last week or so about Masons though, has left me feeling very uneasy.

Out of interest, how on earth does anyone keep up with twitter, I leave my laptop for 5 mins and return to find there are another 125 tweets, how does anyone find the time to read them all?

viv said...

Hiya Di

I gather Spudgun perhaps along with other like AnnaEsse etc is a small time journalist and so he probably means well and yes some of what he says is definitely worth reading.

There do seem to be quite a few journalists interested, no doubt hoping they may find a breakthrough. But that does seem rather forlorn when you think what they are up against, Daily Mail etc.

With twitter you just click on a word that is denoted by a hash tag which will bring up all those comments e.g. #mccann or click on a particular user name. e.g. I like to keep a check on what Rothley Pillow is saying because deviant humans obviously do fascinate me, hence I retrained as a probation officer lol!

I suppose I find time because I have had to give up work, and am often in pain so sit on the internet, not very healthy! It is funny in a way but I went head first into the pond a few weeks back late at night, guzzling water as I went under, fortunately LUke was there. I twisted my ankle and banged my leg badly on the rocks as I went in. I am beginning to wonder if my ankle now needs operating on again. So bit fed up about that! Although it was funny just going completely under, good job Luke did not snap that and put it on Facebook!

viv said...

Here the PJ are quite categoric that a "friend" of Russell O'Brien used this rental car. No forensics found of Maddie but it was a bit late in August !

On the same page it can also be seen the PJ were wishing to trace all owners of a blue mini, now that is another one the McCanns do not mention when they are asking for us all to help trace the little one!

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CORRESPONDENCE_RENTAL_CARS.htm


4th Brigade
Inspector Joao Carlos

To the Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

During inquiries carried out by this police force it was possible to gather information relating to a car used by a friend of Russel O'Brien, one of the elements of the group who travelled with the McCann family on holiday in the Algarve.

As regards the requests for searches of all the vehicles relevant to the process, pages 2002 to 2005, we do not know the identifying elements of this vehicle, however with the aim of continuing with this inquiry we can say that it is a vehicle of the make Opel, model Corsa, number plate 75-AG-62.

We do not have a search warrant for this vehicle and request the emission of this legal instrument in order to be able to complete this inquiry.

6th August 2007
Inspector
Joao Carlos

Di said...

Hi Viv

Thanks for the tip regarding the # on twitter, I am a novice as you can see.

I am so sorry to hear about your fall, what a scary situation for you and Luke. I do hope you do not need another op.

Will e-mail you Viv.

viv said...

Hiya Di

I hope I was not telling you what you already know, you always seem much more up to date on matters technological than me lol!

The doctor has given me some new arthritis drugs and they do seem to be helping a lot. Also have to ring and make appt for x ray Monday because I was suggesting maybe it needs more surgery but Doc seemed to think more arthritis problem. Just a bit off colour anyway, cold and sinus trouble, lol, have to see specialist about that also. Probably need putting down. Giving up smoking sure has done me good lol, I did suggest to Doc I should start again but he was not too impressed with that suggestion!

Lots I want to do in garden and is frustrating. Dont know whether you noticed on Facebook had one big tree taken down, it is much better, although not for birds and squirrels, get the sun full on now when sitting by pond!

Still have not set up any email programme but will go on to Virgin and see if I can get yr mail that way, it was kind of you!

Interesting the opposition I got today on insisting Brit cops have jurisdiction to deal with McCanns which of course they do. One who claims to be an anti McCann sent me about 50 ugly messages in response. I do think it is important to McCanns to carry on fund raising via their book etc so that if any when they are charged by London Met or indeed LP or Portugal they can afford the very best of defences. Whilst it is of course possible for Portugal to prosecute this case I find that incredibly unlikely. Their judge has already ruled phone evidence etc inadmissmible, it would not be in UK and apart from that Portugal are already bankrupt, they do not need any more McCanning!

xxx

Mar said...

Sorry to hear that you are not well at the moment,viv. I hope you feel better soon.

There some very ugly discussions going on in twitter regarding #mccann. I mostly stay out of them as there's no reasoning with some people. Most of them just keep repeating the same old stuff day in day out and don't really welcome a different point of view.

I see that you are giving as good as you are getting Viv so good on you! At least you can put a coherent argument together and are open to other theories. I might not always agree with what you are saying but at least you say it very well!

viv said...

Hiya Mar and thanks for your get well wishes xx

Sometimes I just try to understand the mentality of all these people on the McCann case and what they can possibly be about. Why so hateful and nasty, why does Tony Bennett keep writing new articles about stuff that was more accurately portrayed on this blog years ago.

Brenda Ryan! It just seems like pure madness to me. Reasonable people want to discuss and maybe be enlightened by the view of others. Not display rigid thinking and abuse if you do not follow the current leader. I have never been into hero worship and do wish there were more who are prepared to display a more open thinking style rather than bullying and abuse.

viv said...

Tony Bennett does not seem to realise that what the McCanns now have planned for him is his committal to prison for contempt of court. He conflates the issues. He says he is going to run the defence of "fair comment" but this is a defence to a libel action. He does not seem to understand that when he signed the undertaking back in 2009 he was making a promise to the court not to write anything further about the McCanns. Unfortunately for him I think this stubborn or perhaps mentally ill man is going to be serving some time for this. He just keeps on commenting and fighting back, if and when a judge does get hold of him god help him.

I do not understand how he ever qualified as a solicitor, he does not keep things in clear black and white boxes, he thinks he can have his day in court with the McCanns, what an utter fool!

Di said...

Hi Viv

I have to admit I have not read everything that is going on with Tony Bennett, I start reading his letters but they are soooo long winded I give up.

Going by what you say Viv, and the age of Tony and his wife I am so surprised that he is continuing down this route.

I remember when there was all that trouble with Debbie Butler, Tony said he could not afford to lose his savings and house. This therefore seems madness, not only is Tony dealing with Carter Ruck but also the McCanns.

IMO something is not right here, either Tony has lost his marbles or he has been assured that his house and savings are secure!

viv said...

Hiya Di

That does remain the issue, you are right as usual IMO.

Is Tony Bennett a tool of the McCanns in their desire to manipulate public opinion solely in their favour. A clever and perverse way of controlling what they know they cannot otherwise control. All those adverse comments from the likes of us about them on the internet? Look, you lot, see what will happen to you if you are a mad anti hater just like him, you will get Carter Rucked. But the illogical thing is he signed that undertaking two years ago. In general once someone signs and undertaking, if they breach it, committal proceedings are very quickly taken, otherwise there was absolutely no point in obtaining the undertaking in the first place. One could argue oh well it is a question of the costs of Carter Ruck to take further action against Bennett but it has been rumoured Bennett has £90K and of course his half share in the family home and so an order for costs could and most certainly would be made. Bankruptcy proceedings would then ensue to gather in his assets if he did not quickly pay up.

It always seems, and this even applies with Amaral, that actions are started but they are never taken through to their natural conclusion. One could say in the case of Amaral he has put up a proper fight and he has won and so McCanns would not recover their costs. The Supreme Court rejected their appeal and the appeal court in the most trenchant terms said Amaral did not harm their reputation or any of their other stated rights.

If Tony is not on the side of the McCanns he has not a prayer agains the might of Carter Ruck. It is a simple matter, he signed an undertaking and here is a dearth of evidence he has spent the last two years openly defying what is an order of the court. Because that is what an undertaking becomes once signed. For such flagrant breaches a term of imprisonment would most certainly ensue and a massive order for costs made against him. £90K pot, half share of home, aged 63 it would be complete madness as he would finish up in penury.

Carter Ruck are a disreputable firm IMO who act for very disreputable clients, is this really what is going on, to finally get the public onside by using an apparent madman ? Well I am fascinated as I know you are to know the answer to that. But somehow I have a feeling this committal to prison just will not happen, it will all quietly die down again, but in the process shut many more up.

viv said...

But lost his marbles and actually thinking he can write sprawling letters and go behind an undertaking he gave two years ago, Tony gives the impression he thinks he can do that. It is like he is playing law, a judge would just shoot him down in flames and be so full of indignation for the poor McCanns in those circumstances because he does come across as a demented harasser and they have been so utterly patient with him!

Oh if we only knew! In one respect, if Tony is just a nutter I feel very sorry for him because he will be utterly destroyed by this. I even tried to offer him a bit of legal advice on twitter the other night, not that he answered of course! He knows best xx

viv said...

and now he is talking about the Praia da Luz set meaning a gang of paedophiles including McCann and their sol Smethurst, yikes talk about playing with fire!

He may even be right but!

Di said...

Hi Viv

Well Tony does seem hell bent on either provoking, or getting the word out there. I have no idea which it is but he does not seem keen to drop the name Smethurst.

I have always, as you know, had two issues in my mind which just will not go away.

The first being the taxi driver who says he transported Madeleine and Kate etc. in his cab, the taxi driver's son being in the Police.

The second Gerry being overheard on his mobile saying "Please don't hurt her"

Neither of these statements have been fully explained away imo.

I have always thought Madeleine is no longer with us, but I am also never closed to thinking outside the box.

I think with the people we are dealing with keeping options open is wise.

viv said...

Hiya Di

It is like there is this huge conspiracy, including from people who now turn out to definitely be Pros e.g. Bren JJP that we all had to be chanting Madeleine is dead, the dogs prove it, it was an accident. I can recall Ambersuz on Missing Madeleine being particularly vile with me when I was insisting I wanted my account removing due to all the talk of Maddie's corpse.


So, if she did not die in the apartment, what does the evidence tell us? I can also recall Claudia sending me endless emails telling me what a lunatic the taxi driver is, he is not to be believed and that Rebelo had just been brought into shut the investigation down and cowtow to the Brits (in part I think that is true because we want to prosecute).

I do think this was an abduction but they arranged it, and that woman on the phone overhearing Gerry please do not hurt her, why would she lie either? I think she had already been seriously hurt sadly and Maddie got into the hands of people beyond the control of Gerry. She is almost certainly dead now. It is terribly sad.

Must keep this blog closed now of course, what a bunch of evil nasties laying into me on Twitter, at least they think I am worth the attention! Seems like Bren and JJP are their top defenders lol! Also the top posters on 3As, that site was just one big con!

xxx