24 Sep 2010

Come to the Algarve and then I will kill you...copying the McCanns?

Lagos: Suspected of killing lover and daughter remains silent

PJ tried body between beach and hotel

Still mystery surrounding what happened in the three hours that left Gunnar Dorries Canavial with baby daughter and returned alone to the hotel.
  • July 22, 2010
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By:Ana Sofia Coelho / Tania Laranjo
The journey of seven miles between the beach Canavial in Lagos and Hotel Vila Gale in Meia Praia, was spent combing the Judicial Police in Portimao. The fact that the German tourist Gunnar Dorries have traveled that path on the day of the crime, July 10, after drowning his lover on the beach and get away with a baby daughter, made her think that there is found the key to the mystery. However, researchers have found no traces on the child's body.
The murderer, who was arrested two days after returning to Munich, Germany, is still not talking to authorities about what happened to her daughter Alexandra, a year and a half, or reveal the whereabouts of that. Have your legal representative told German media that "Alex is alive."
However, the perception of the police, both Portuguese and German, is different. Gunnar, 43, killed Georgina Angolan Zito, 30 years, and it also killed the baby. The two organizations still believe that the suspect did not want to take the paternity of the child because she had a double life.
A loving relationship with Georgina Gunnar began in 2006 when they met in Stuttgart. In early 2008, Angola became pregnant but had a German girlfriend in Munich. The man immediately ended the relationship with his mistress.
However, in December 2009, Georgina Gunnar asked that court to pay the alimony. But only in June he agreed to speak personally with the former lover and invited her to travel to the Algarve.
The crime occurred four days after Georgina and Alexandra come to Portugal. During his stay in Lagos the three acted as if they were family. The simulation ended after a trip to the beach. Gunnar drowned the former lover and left with her daughter. He returned alone to the hotel three hours later.
The fact that the suspect was seen leaving Canavial beach in Lagos, with the child after her mother's death, is a fundamental proof to sustain the murder case, where the corpse of the girl did not appear. In this situation, and given that it was a baby who had no chance to survive alone and also because they are known from German friends in Portugal, the same could be convicted even if they never reveal the whereabouts of the child's body. Another fact that will have a decisive role in judging is Alexandra have not traveled to Munich with his father. The suspect picked up the plane at the airport in Lisbon, but went alone to Germany, changing the route that originally anticipated - had bought a ticket that would allow the return through Faro airport.
The Judicial Police do not want to repeat the media spectacle of Madeleine McCann. So researchers have been trying located in the one and only route that is known. "We can not look everywhere. It would be impossible and would not make sense," said the CM source of the Judicial Police, ensuring that only broaden the search when they have any clue about the precise location of the child. The fact that it is a baby too difficult to search.Easily the body may have been camouflaged, on land or at sea. "We may never find," the source said.
 Gunnar Dorries, 43, drowned the former lover Georgina Beach Canavial.
. Police suspected that her daughter Alexandra was also killed by her father shortly after


viv said...

This little baby 18 months was his flesh and blood and yet seemingly, he did not want to pay child maintenance or have anything to do with the child or its mother.

So, he thought he would take them to the Algarve and just dispose of them. No doubt considering the "success of the McCanns" in doing just the same with Madeleine.

I am sure this man must rue the day, just as Kate and Gerry McCann do, but if there is one thing this teaches us, just how depraved and calculating a father can be towards his own innocent little child.

That will never make it any easier to understand to ordinary people who just adore their own tiny children, and big ones for that matter too!

Wizard said...

A well spotted story Viv.

"We can not look everywhere. It would be impossible and would not make sense," said the CM source of the Judicial Police….”

A chilling reality for some the above statement but perhaps comforting for others. This story is one the British press have not taken up unlike the more tenuous links supply by Clarence et al. The crime described in the article highlights the apparent ease it is to conceal the body of a young child.

I was reading on JM a CNN interview with the Spanish investigator Joseph Moura. He suggests that the timeline did not allow the parents of MBM to have done something to their daughter and conceal the body. Hmm….

If we assume as correct the last time Madeleine was seen alive was at 6.00pm and the time in between that before the alarm being raised by her mother was 10.00pm. If we then consider the time in between was filled by statements by MBM’s parents - that’s four hours. Four hours in which Moura assumes the McCanns timeline is correct and therefore no window of opportunity to have carried out a crime exists.

In the Gunnar Dorries case within three hours he was able, in broad daylight, to kill and conceal the body of his daughter and drown her mother. Hmmm

Timelines from prime suspects can be staged to give the impression that the window of opportunity was small when in reality it was large. The Dorries case clearly highlights that four hours is ample time to kill and conceal a body. A body in the Dorries case which also has never been found. No wonder the pro-McCann British press did not take this story up!

Di said...

Hi Viv & Wizard


Thanks for explaining PFA2, how have I missed that site? not that I would be going there.

Another truly shocking case re: Gunnar Dorries, but I am not surprised that the body of a child could be hidden in Portugal, or anywhere for that matter. Having spent many wonderful holidays in Portugal, I know there are many desolate areas that anything could be hidden.

Mind you, I am surprised the UK papers have not picked up on this story and suggested, courtesy of pinky, that Alexandra has more than likely been given, by Gunnar, to the same Gypsies that took Madeleine and has come to no harm.

S.B. said...


My god, what filthy obnoxious b******s are allowed to walk this planet. If this particular case was inspired by the Mccann’s then they have got a whole lot more to answer for than mislaying their own little daughter. Just how despicable can anybody be? I sometimes wonder if there will ever be an end to the repercussions created by Madeleine Mccann’s dreadful fate ~ I say fate because whatever actually happened there could never be a happy ending to this saga for Madeleine.

Viv me a deserter? Never, you can’t get rid of me that easily lol! You wonder if Gerry regrets employing such hapless firms of detectives? Well, apart from the fact that he wasn't 'actually' looking for competent 'detectives' to help find little Madeleine there seems to be an ongoing discrepancy as to 'who' was responsible for the employment of these exceptional, highly acclaimed super sleuths. Was it Gerry? Was it Kennedy? Was it the Home Secretary? Was it Gordon Brown? I'm inclined to think the one with the most cash, what do you think?

I wish I could agree with your thoughts about Madeleine still being alive somewhere but that scenario still begs the question ~ where is she?

Yes, Gerry clearly has a problem with the way in which he perceives his own worth, 0% in my estimation, but he must now be able to realise that he has not outwitted the police or the majority of the populace nor ever will he. Even their extended family appear to have jumped ship. As you rightly say, why else would he destroy on-line evidence of all his contradictions and lies.

Whoops, posted this by mistake on the last thread so have moved it over ~ sorry for the duplication!

viv said...

Hiya all

Wiz, I think one of the major issues for me about this story is this,

if a parent of a child has no love for that child and is very concerned about money, they are likely to see Kate and Gerry as providing a road map as to how they can cash in and rid themselves of that child and, most chillingly, get away with it.

Karen Matthews allowing her child to be around sex offenders, incarcerated by one of them, more concerned about sitting on the internet all day smoking than looking after her kids, not very bright. Slavishly copies the McCanns with posters, puts on a better anguished look than Kate but even has the teddy prop. Bang to rights.

There are probably others but then we get this cold calculating chap who was really far more intent on total destruction and in doing so ridding himself of a perceived nuisance, not just a financial burden. He sees that going to Portugal to commit the deed, just like the McCanns is a really good idea, plenty of places to hide the body, police less efficient than his home force, jurisdictional and language problems, more likely to get away with it. Bang to rights.

But the shelving of the McCann case because they cannot find the body, yes, even I accept that is the most likely scenario, that is the legacy of Kate and Gerry McCann. A flag to abusive parents everywhere, look you can get away with it. That surely has to mean that on an international level, nailing Kate and Gerry McCann would be a major child protection measure.

viv said...


I think Mr Moura is a great investigator but his comments are carefully measured so that he does not directly accuse the McCanns of killing Madeleine.

What he is saying IMO, is that it was not possible for something to have happened to Madeleine within the timeframe as set out by both the McCanns and Goncalo Amaral.

I believe the importance of the timeframe in between the hours of 8.30 and 10 is one of the McCanns greatest red herrings. That is when they wanted us to believe Maddie was taken, had she "disappeared" prior to that time then quite clearly they were involved in that disappearance.

A read of the email exchange between Ricardo Paiva and DC Marshall in October 2007 demonstrates that what the police were actually interested in were the Paynes involvement and the hours long before the TAPAS meal, the afternoon and the early evening. This is when Maddie genuinely went missing and I feel from Mr Moura's comments that is what he also believes. He is clearly not suggesting the parents are telling the truth, he criticises their timelines and the story of Jane Tanner. He queries why they would deliberately choose to go five nights in a row without a babysitter.

He does not believe Maddie is alive. To me he is talking about murder, but clearly avoiding actually saying that.

viv said...

and maybe what the Portuguese really mean when they say they need relevant and credible evidence to re-open the investigation is clear evidence of where it would be wise to allocate precious resources to actually find Maddie's body.

viv said...

Mind you, I am surprised the UK papers have not picked up on this story and suggested, courtesy of pinky, that Alexandra has more than likely been given, by Gunnar, to the same Gypsies that took Madeleine and has come to no harm.

Nice bit of irony there Di, I guess even Pinky would think the association of the prior murder of the baby's mum by the same chap would be a bit of a difficult one to spin in a positive way, even for such a great master or whatever it was Tony Bennett told us he is. Well hummm I could think of better ways to describe Mitchell, and his "job".

viv said...

Hiya SB and glad you are not a deserter lol!

Good point about Gerry always needs a proxy hirer for these firms who erm, cough, were employed to locate Maddie.

It is strange really for such a controlling chap to want to try and keep his hands clean in this way, but then again, is it!

One thing I do wonder, will Gerry's advisers ever think it is worthwhile for him to go back to the courthouse in Portugal and stand outside, going red in the face with rage at reporters whilst insisting there is absolutely no evidence?

That kind of angry aggression is something that so resolutely belongs to serious criminals who just insist on being believed but know that they are not.

S.B. said...


Insisting that there is absolutely no evidence......

That of course has been Gerry's mantra (echoed by Kate I believe) since the beginning of their long term strategy. One major problem for them is the undeniable fact that they do not actually know for sure precisely what evidence the police have against them ~ hence the desparate attempts to get their grubby little mits on the police files.

However strongly they believe that they have escaped justice there must be an underlying doubt, for one because they cannot and will not ever win access to the files and secondly because the circus they have created to hoodwink the world has backfired and thus become their greatest enemy rather than an ally.

So despite Gerry's superiority complexe and super-human ego I cannot believe he still thinks himself invincible. I am sure you agree, if he be still confident that he has won he would continue to be flooding the media with new sightings, interviews, sob stories, family videos and never ending money making ventures!

Even Gerry Mccann and his ailing wife are vulnerable, they must know that above all else. Where now are all their family, their friends, their high profile backers ~ all gone along with their reputations, never to return. Bit like their little daughter 'aint it!

viv said...

hiya SB

I think we saw that Gerry is vulnerable as his heart pounded, blood pressure raced, and his face went redder and redder outside that courthouse, unleashing that telltale torrent of angry aggression.

I also agree with you there are clear signs that natural arrogance is wearing a bit thin. Like having to remove all of his blogging that when making them, he clearly thought was such a good idea.

Personality disordered offenders are impulsive and Gerry is no different. He may take longer than normal to carefully consider how he responds to a perceived threat, but when he does his actions are reckless and impulsive and bound to cause him harm in the long run. Most spectacular example, suing Goncalo Amaral, essentially the man is telling the truth but just watering it down and making it sound just a wee bit better for the McCanns, Gerry knows that.

He planned to get rid of Madeleine and he planned to get away with it and be considered innocent in the eyes of the world, making himself a fortune, becoming a celebrity, the Kate and Gerry show. People queuing to interview his holiness. The man is an utter short term thinking prat and unlike Kate, gets so angry and aggressive, he just cannot hide it. That video on the right here stands testament to what a prat he knows full well he is.

Great new poster on MM, clearly capable of thinking outside the box:

Angelique Today at 16:38

.Hi Panda

Does your post mean you believe she was abducted because there really was time for this to happen.

Would this mean that the patio door was left open on purpose ?


viv said...

"They have taken her" wails Kate?

viv said...

But there again, going on memory, I do believe sly David Payne tells the police that is what she said.

viv said...

I am somewhat amazed to note that there are still very detailed discussions going on about these creche records, all subsumed under the general theory that Maddie died much earlier in the week.

Below is an interesting comment. But having read this what immediately strikes me is not evidence of Madeleine being dead at all, but evidence of creche record keeping being immediately faked by staff once it was known Maddie had disappeared and the police wanted sight of them. I am sure Mark Warner would have been quite embarrassed to state, well actually we did not bother. I mean, is that not the obvious explanation for parents whose sig keeps changing and cannot spell their own daughter's name? Is that not the typical hallmark of faked record keeping?


What staggers me even more is that these people genuinely seem to believe that they have discovered something the police did not and on the basis of their ahem expert analysis PJs should get back on the case. They even charitably suggest that Goncalo is a bit confused by saying well a witness saw Maddie last at 5.30// Apparently the McCanns used all of those confusing old pictures of a much tinier younger Maddie because the Paynes or the O'Briens had been passing their kid off as Maddie (she quite obviously been dead or dying) Am I the only one who finds this just a tad far fetched?

Creche Record: RANDOM OBSERVATIONS (apologies if I an repeating what others have pointed out already)

1. GM signs M in a.m., KM signs her in p.m. .... BOTH of them spell her name wrongly, MADELINE.

2. CAT NANNY signs EOB out at 4.30pm.

3. Same handwriting CAT NANNY - signs William in 3.30 pm, parents location Tapas. CB also writes time left (at 5 something) + squiggle for signature. Poor record keeping or added later?

4. I wondered if the first three names looked as if written by same person but then saw that EOB's name also looks like same writing (names printed).

5. ROB's signature .... 3 times but look different each time?

6. EOB's name and apartment entries .... are they written by same person morning and afternoon? Doesn't look like it to me.

7. The KM signature appears very clear and readable. The signature at 17.30 looks different from the other two .... e.g. look at the 'N's. (but probably just done in a hurry?)

8. Little boy (AM) also signed out at 17.30 (parent would be witness of M leaving?).

I would be interested to know what a handwriting expert made of this register!

Probably just being too picky for words, though!

Main thing for me is that in both entries for M, supposedly written by each of her parents, her name is spelled wrongly. Very strange - one could understand ONE making an error but BOTH?

viv said...

I seem to recall that Mark Warner whisked all those nannies away pretty damned quick, I mean were they worried the PJ may get a bit preoccupied with their kiddy record keeping skills, imagine the scandal for Mark Warner and the further impact upon their business..

I bet the nannies were supposed to sign each kid in and out but somehow overlooked that duty and then had to start thinking who was there and at what time. That must have been a tough call!

viv said...

But these people believe this is going to produce "evidence" that Maddie died, when she died and the McCanns then dumped her body?

Oh please!

No one is denying that Maddie may have died and they dumped her body, but evidence for a court of law to prove that? Get a life guys!