27 Mar 2009


Well firstly I must deal with the serious part of this post, yes I regret to advise these two have been at it again, some happy snapper managed to catch them in the leafy lanes of Rothley (EVEN quieter of late as many residents have moved out fearing an unprecented invasion of their idyllic rural life by a massive media scrum) calmly planning their latest Scampaign which they have printed in Portuguese to fool the Brits but forgetting they taught us how to use google. Word has it just this one pic could net him an estimated £1.8M in less than 10 months.

A poster called Tara on 3 As revealed to me the web address containing the message the McCanns are now putting out in Portuguese which I have translated via google so is not perfect. But I think we get the gist, particularly the one about did you contact the police before or do you know anyone that did, ring our friend Isabel and tell her all about it. What the McCanns are doing is leaving no stone unturned in their bid to find out exactly what the police know and exactly what the evidence against them is, so that they can instruct their lawyers accordingly on how to defend this evidence. This is perverting the course of justice on a pretty major style and I have just never heard of criminals going to these lengths before.

It is exactly the same behaviour we saw with the McCanns extremely expensive forays to the High Court, all paid for out of the Find Madeleine Fund. On about 15 or 16 May 2007 the GASPARS former doctor friends of Kate Gerry and the Paynes gave the police some incredibly damning evidence about Gerry and Payne apparently discussing the desired sexual abuse of Madeleine. On 4 May at around 10 am immediately after the so called abduction they met with a Senior British Social Worker, Yvonne Martin who was extremely concerned about the conduct of David Payne and said that Kate was initially crying profusely but then both she and Gerry became aggressive with her.

Gerry rushed home to instruct his lawyers it would seem because he went home around 20 May the same day that an application was filed in the High Court under the Child Abduction and Custody Act seeking an Order, which was granted, that the Police give all relevant information to the McCanns concerning the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine. In short they wanted to know exactly what the police knew. But the Chief Constable of Leicester Police and other British Agencies decided they were taking no notice of that Order and were refusing to give the McCanns details of the files they had built up during the investigation. Files of CEOP who investigate child sexual abuse, files of the Serious Organised Crime Agency and of course Leicester Police themselves. Larger British Agencies will often give specialist expertise to a local force on major and complex investigations that often cross international boundaries as in this case.

In desperation whilst still Arguidos and being investigated in Portugal as well as in UK during April 2008 the McCanns made an ill judged application to Mrs Justice Hogg in the High Court, Family Division seeking to get her to enforce the Order she had made against British Agencies to force them to disclose their files to them. This is completely alien to normal criminal procedure where of course suspects just get investigated by the police and whilst they may want to know what is in the police files, tough luck they are not going to be told. But of course Kate and Gerry McCann with a huge amount of money at their disposal thought they could flout the law and tell the Chief Constable of Leicester Police and others just the way it is, their way. Mrs Justice Hogg responded by immediately making Madeleine a Ward of the High Court on 17 April 2008. Clarence Mitchell told lies about this in the press and claimed that Kate and Gerry had done this the previous year to cover the obvious embarrassment to his esteemed clients. All of the British agencies including even our Attorney General opposed Kate and Gerry's application to get the files and due to the complexity and seriousness of this case Mrs Justice Hogg set it down for hearing in July 2008 so that all concerned parties could attend and raise their objections. Up against such incredible opposition the McCanns no doubt received appropriate legal advice that they should withdraw their application and accept they are not entitled to do the impossible no matter if they do employ an expensive QC, he cannot change the law for them! Mrs Justice Hogg of course had access to all manner of confidential information concerning the McCanns and the investigation and made Orders that given Kate and Gerry had agreed to withdraw she was making an Order that NOT BRITISH AGENCY WAS REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE ANY INFORMATION FROM THEIR FILES TO KATE AND GERRY MCCANN. A face saver was negotiated that the Chief Constable would hand back to them 81 pieces of information the McCanns own solicitors had handed to him about supposed sightings of Madeleine, but the 11,000 pieces of information the Chief Constable had would remain confidential to protect the integrity of the investigation in accordance with normal procedure and of course what all the other agencies had too.

As we know Stuart Prior the lead British investigator negotiated with the Portuguese authorities as to what information would be made public from their own investigation but this clearly did not include investigations into British sex offenders or the financial affairs of Kate and Gerry McCann. This is obviously still under wraps and one of the reasons cited is to preserve relationships with another country. It seems clear from what have been allowed to learn that such information was not handed over to Portugal from British authorities. I am sure they were concerned about all the leaks getting into the press which seemed to emanate from Portugal and were absolutely determined the McCanns were not going to find out what they were investigating. Entirely understandable when you consider that Mrs Justice Hogg said I appeal to that one person who knows where Madeleine may be found. I believe that was direct appeal to Gerry McCann who of course did not choose to attend the hearing where he had sought to demand details of the investigation against him but had to back down.

As we can see below, he has still not quite given up, but he might as well!



There is still time to save her!

Madeleine McCann disappeared in Praia da Luz, Algarve, on 3 May 2007. Missing a few days for his 4th birthday. Little is known about what has really happened, how or where it is now gone. But there is no evidence that something bad has happened. It is very possible that the missing piece of the puzzle is still a secret in Praia da Luz

* You see or hear anything unusual the night of the disappearance of Madeleine?
* Observed some suspicious behavior on the part of others?
* Remember some of which may be related to the disappearance?
* At the time, contacted the police and told what he knew?
* You know someone who knows some relevant information?
* Know someone who lived or worked in Praia da Luz at the time of disappearance?
* Think you might have seen the little Madeleine since then?

Has at its disposal several ways to contact, totally anonymous or confidential. Whether by email, by letter to the EC 4066 FREE SHIPMENT Penha Faro - 8006-601 Faro, free calling to 800 814 028 and speak with our friend Isabel or by phone or sms to 910 503 645, please tell us what you know.

We look to find Madeleine!
Thank you.

If you know of any information that could help me find it, please do not be silent!
Talk, anonymously and confidentially, with my friend Isabel:800 814 028


Wizard said...

Morning Viv,

I loved the photo that leads this thread. No doubt it will upset Gerry as it castes him in the minor role of Robin, still GM take heart Robin is the boy wonder.

It was good to see you have written to the Telegraph about their article. I really despair with the press when they publish press releases verbatim – they after all are not stupid – can they not see that possible suspects asking for any new information to be sent to them as opposed to the police is just malevolent manipulation of possible evidence as no doubt the Dark ‘Pink’ Knight et al would withhold any adverse information received. What the Telegraph and yesterdays London Evening Standard are doing is nothing short of aiding and abetting.

Journalism as we all know is about giving balanced information why it is the Portuguese are now being caste in villainous role without a balanced explanation of their actions regarding the torn posters. The Dark Knight writes a subjective script and the newspapers print it – no balance of views there then – breathtakingly scandalous imo.

hope4truth said...

Enough is Enough...

I am all for any information that would bring Madeleine home safe and well would be good but it is highly unlikely that she is safe.

Madeleine could have been abducted by an evil stranger or by someone she knew and would indeed be in grave danger.

Or she could have died (in any number of ways) and her parents have covered this up so as not to get into trouble and to keep their remaining family together...

If there was an accident and in their panic this is what happend although not right I can see why they would have done this and with the grief of loosing a daughter would not wish to see them punished any futher what would it achieve?

However if something more evil happend to Madeleine then the twins are in very real danger.

Whatever happend to Madeleine the only important thing is it is investigated and she is found if she is still alive obviously this is more important than ever...

Any single one of us Pro Anti on the Fence should want the same thing Madeleine found and whoever was involved in whatever happend to her investigated.

If Kate and Gerry are only guilty of child neglect (and I know the pros dont like that being brought up but if she was taken this is the reason why the abductor was able to take her especialy as they left the door unlocked)then they have enough deamons to deal with living with the guilt of letting your child down is worse than any court can dish out.

However it is dangerous and wrong for them to ask people to contact their own investigation team. The people of PDL did all they could for the McCann's in 2007 without even the offer of 2 million to motivate them to search they searched Mrs Murat set up a stall asking for information (and I remeber some pros asking how she dared to do this when her son was the monster who took Madeleine) at the time she was out there she did not know her son was to be the McCann's fall guy...

If they had seen anything they would have told the police at the time (unless they were pure evil and did not want to help but if that is the case why would they help now?) There is a 2 million reward out there (which I cant understand why the McCann's have not pushed this more)and 2 million is enough to make the most evil person tell all they know...

But what must never happen is anyone who is a suspect (and if I were Kate I would suspect each and every one of the people on holiday with me especialy if they were missing for a while before my child went missing)to be given information that has not gone through the police is crazy.

Karen Mathews was a "Victim" when Shannon went missing she had me fooled for a while but the only victim was Shannon should we all have called their team and helped her get away with taking her own daughter? What if we had information and had gone to her rather than the police with information about the flat we thought she was in would it have resulted in Shannon loosing her life in panic as they realised they had been caught out?

Kate left the twins alone to raise the alarm. They did not search for Madeleine (who could have wandered off and fallen in the pool) a few days later they are seen laughing and smiling on what would have been their missing daughters 4th Birthday and the smiles have continued.

It was Team McCann that insisted on traveling the globe in a search for Madeleine going as far away from PDL as they could and now two years later they want to go back to search for her? Why are they not doing this in Morroco that is where they said she was maybe someone has information there...

Let the police investigate and let the newspapers report what is going on but no more spin it is not needed anyone who is a decent person would tell all they know no matter what their thoughts on the case are...

My children are more important than I will ever be and if god forbid they ever go missing I would expect the police to grill me and every person who is close to them just in case we have the vital piece of information that would find them and if anyone of them refused to answer a single question no matter how stupid it seemed I would never forgive them for not putting my daughters first.

viv said...

Morning guys and what fantastic big posts!

I am just going to settle in and read them and will then try to answer some of your points


viv said...

Wiz, firstly the T is for Tw*tman and the K Knobin but I was wondering whether I should put that bit in.

But it did cause me to laugh like a drain when I found it, to put it politely they are a couple of knobs.

I think it does conjure up the correct image at least that I have of these two prats sitting working on the next barmy scam. Blinded by any sense of how their actions may be perceived or just how utterly damaging they are not just to the victims they create but themselves!

I think our press have lost a sense of justice and decency. It is just not acceptable to just print whatever Mitchell and Co write for them, how can they describe this as fair and balanced journalism. As I point out in my complaint to the Telegraph how can they be a part of such a racist attack on the people of Portugal.

I think that British people would just be in raptures if they had the decency to write a heart felt piece looking honestly at how the people of Luz must really feel about all of this and the tremendous sense of hurt they must feel. They are not being selfish in pointing out they have a right to claim their lives back from the terrible trauma that Gerry and Kate McCann inflicted upon them. They want to move forward, we all do. They do not have the benefit of a huge Fund to pay their mortgage and expenses, they have a living to earn and that living largely represents money from tourism. Of course they resent this sickening attack which Rosiepops is now exemplifying again. Just in time for your tourist season to start we come back to haunt you, you haven for paedophiles with your rotten police and justice system etc. That person puts into words so much more plainly what Gerry McCann is really about, it is nasty vicious and utterly false. Nothing short of downright wicked. Portugal is nothing like the image that they seek to portray, either in terms of child abuse and paedophilia or their system of justice. It is Gerry McCann IMO that brought child abuse to Portugal and Gerry McCann that feels a bitter hatred towards decent police officers who simply tried to do their duty.

I have felt ashamed of our press before over this case. They never did get it right. There was too much not just of attacking Portugal but of wrongful speculation on the evidence in this case and it all seems to boil down to, we should be supporting this middle class couple. They exemplify everything our readers should aspire to. Just how sick is that!

viv said...

Hiya Hope

Well firstly of course I agree we are very much in favour of any measure that could recover Madeleine but of course know that she is highly unlikely to be the least bit alive and well.

Gerry McCanns continuing protestations that there is absolutely no evidence she has come to any serious harm just demonstrates what a sick and perverted man he really is. This man who has been telling us cases like Frizl give him comfort for the "situation Madeleine finds herself in". What kind of comfort? That he can somehow seek to excuse himself from the most foul deeds he did to his own daughter and then mercilessly and ruthlessly sought to cash in on his wicked behaviour? I just do not think there are any reasonable words I can use to express just what I feel about this man and all his lying and perverted schemes.

I am afraid the one thing I simply cannot accept is that this was any sort of accident. Everything I have seen and read tells me loud and clear this was planned and cynical and that cover up involves three very sick men, Gerry, Payne and O'Brien. This is what I find so disgusting about the claims that paedophiles took her and Portugal is such a host to them. I am afraid as far as I am concerned Portugal played host to some British ones and British Police are still trying to nail them. I simply cannot accept that the GASPARS would have given that evidence to British Police if they did not feel it was honest and relevant evidence and the same with Yvonne Martin, the Senior Social Worker. This is what this case is about and this is what Gerry McCann has the audacity to accuse others of, what pyschologists describe as an extreme example of projection but to a person like Gerry his form of defence. If David Payne was innocent there is no way he would just quietly put up with 4000 posts about him on 3 Arguidos. He keeps quiet because those witnesses are quite obviously telling the truth about this man who used to work so closely with Gerry McCann, just like Russell O'Brien used to.

The failure to mention that £2M reward also causes me grave concern and lends weight to my fears that Madeleine was to their knowledge still alive and capable of being recovered but as Gerry says in the hands of paedophiles. I just get this feeling that they were fearful of plugging that reward for fear that some thug might think it was worth handing Madeleine over to claim the reward. The very last thing that Gerry McCann would have wanted. You would hardly employ Metodo 3 if you actually wanted your daughter to be found!

I also get the feeling Hope that Kate has been dropping some gentle hints to the police about what really happened. There is a statement of hers to the Police dated I think 10 or 11 May that has not been released and yet Gerry's around the same time has. The other thing that I find very odd indeed is that she says at around 9 both Gerry and Russell went to check on the children but neither of them agree with her. Why would she say this, Hope? When you look at a lot of her comments they are clearly open to that sort of interpretation and she frequently says I when it would more naturally be we in relation to love for Madeleine etc. Mentally she just cannot bring herself to include Gerry in those thought processes. Sometimes she has looked timid and afraid, sometimes she has looked at him with pure hatred. Particularly in Brussels. I just do not think she can really stand this charade but gets forced into taking part because he reminds her I am sure very frequently, well trust me darling, you will go down too if you open your mouth and lose your other two, so don't try that one.

As you say, they would have been aware in the early stages that the search should have focussed on the immediate area because had Madeleine really been taken by a predatory paedophile he would almost certainly have been a local. But they just jogged and courted the press. If that had been my child I would personally have worn myself to a standstill knocking on people's door and just begging them for information about my child. But what the McCanns did was leave the residents of Luz to do all the crying and the searching, the same people they now want to upset and blame once more. It is truly horrific.


viv said...

Post I made on 3 As which is pretty relevant in explaining the way I feel about Russell O'Brien. The man who can search and print all at the same time. I don' think he was actually doing either, he was too busy working out the timeline with Payne and McCann, the timeline that police stress is obviously so crucial to them finding out who was responsible and just what they did, but of course they do not want to help. Helping little Maddie is the last thing that concerns these three..

Of course Nicked, one could also conclude that the reason the police are so interested in this issue and Russell was giving such evasive answers, even acknowledging the thought was "someone" already had these 6 x 4 pictures is because that "someone", Gerry McCann quite obviously did.

The A4s were run off from the originals the following morning. The supposed printer of the original 6 x 4 s will be tracked down, I am sure of that because it is vital evidence of a premeditated crime. No one takes postcard sized pictures of their child on holiday with them unless they are planning for that child to be abducted! There were two different pictures I understand, one of Maddie in her football kit with long hair, and then one with very short hair in a bob and looking much younger. I am not certain about the actual 6 x 4 pictures but am sure you will tell me if I am wrong i.e. are they the football pic and the one with Maddie with much shorter hair in a bob?

The football picture was used to immediately rouse a massive wave of sympathy at Everton and of course the flood of money pouring in. The one with short hair in a bob, well that would have had to be on Kate's camera for one heck of a long time. How big is the memory on Kate's camera!! OB to managed to search for Maddie, search all through Kate' camera and produce some old pics rather than current ones and get them printed up on such a peculiar sized paper all within two hours.

Now who am I to call him a liar, but I will tell you this much, any police officer sitting listening to his comments below is most definitely going to think so, and they are going to wonder why he is telling lies too!

00.18.35 1578 “Did you have any photo of Madeleine in your possession”?
Reply “Erm we got a photo of Madeleine later on but this is two hours later, erm”.
1578 “So who gave it to you”?
Reply “Okay well certain, I’m not quite sure what the, the initial, the question made it sound like whoever had one in our possession anyway, I didn’t, erm we got a, we erm, after a portion of my searches, we got hold of erm Kate’s camera, err looked through the digital cam to try and find a picture of Madeleine reasonably recently, reasonably face on and, and with her being the main, the main character on the photograph, erm clearly that that was going through, there were quite a few pictures that were not ideal, so we, we went through those, err and then printed that off, erm all of this taking a reasonable amount of time to try and get hold of equipment and have offices opened and etc., etc”.
1578 “Okay. What kind of photo was it”?
Reply “The, it was a, it was a photo of err, it was the one that was being circulated in the, in the days immediately afterwards, I’ve seen so many photographs of her, of Madeleine since, I think it was a photograph that had been taken of her and a relatively number of weeks before and I think with a slightly different, slightly longer hair, erm but it was, it was a fa, it was a fa, it was a relatively full on sort of face on photograph, err and it was printed on a standard size erm four by six err inch, as you know, using the equipment that the people had and we ran off a number of copies of this, erm and several I think were given to the, the GNR”.
00.20.21 1578 “I was going to ask you the next question”.
Reply “Sorry”.
1578 “Was, who did you give the photo to”?
Reply “Yeah well I think the ones that I had, I took, you know cos obviously they were printing out, you know they were slow you know, we really wanted to get them to the Police fairly quickly, so I took the first couple of copies and took those round to, I think the GNR staff, I presume they were the origin, you know original uniformed Officers, it wasn’t the PJ, it was well before the PJ arrived, erm there were other copies printed off which I don’t know where they got to but I know that Mark WARNER, somebody in Mark WARNER made a poster, or at least an A4 err saying that there’d been, you know, there’d been a, err an abduction and that Madeleine was missing and that was circulated around the next morning, so somebody had, had, had that photograph and used it for that poster but I took, I don’t know two or three copies maybe and gave them to the Police. I actually think ultimately there may have been more copies printed off and somebody else gave even more copies to them as well, err and I think some of the other copies were shown, were just shown to people around who were going on the searches but erm personally”.
1578 “The copies that you had, you only gave to the Police”?
Reply “I gave it to the Police, just to the Police”.

or perhaps even more sinister, is the Police Officer implying Russell himself already had some nice pictures of cute little Maddie, the man who was missing, letting his dinner ruin, just as Maddie was being, ahem, "abducted".

Perhaps when you add that to no allegations or concerns against him by either Kate or Gerry McCann, you can understand why a lot of people now are understanding why CEOP are investigating this case and why I am going to continue to say the three main culprits here are Gerry, OB and Payne, the same three who sat desperately cooking the timelines to try and hide their guilty behaviour before the PJ arrived.

The timelines are crucial to this case, in seeking to prove at each point in time where all these people were, but when Russell was asked if he would participate, he gave a rambling and furious sermon, finishing with well no I am not and it is all the fault of the press for saying nasty things about us! Never mind about Madeleine, so far as Russell is concerned, me, me, me. Typical offender profile, I would say!

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

Well if Kate knows that Gerry is responsible and kept quiet about what was going on through fear she has to speak out.

No doubt she would loose the twins if she has ever covered up for peadophilia against her older child a Mother has a duty first and formost to protect her children.

I would say though that if Gerry is a peadophile and is responsible for removing Madeleine and she remains quitet about it she will loose the twins anyway when they are older.

People have written that Madeleine will condem me for being so nasty about her parents I dont know how Madeleine would feel I dont know the child.

But I have watched my eldest daughters eyes fill with tears when she was 3 whilst I was busy with my younger daughter trying to put her in the car and laughing with her and looking back towards the house and my husband holding my eldest in his arms saying "She thinks you are going swimming without her Mummy" the look of joy on her face when I went back for her and said "how can I go swimming without my special big girl?"..

Children dont always interpret what an adult is doing or saying but to see there parents laughing when they are in pain is cruel...

No words for Madeleine at all and so many happy photos. Teenagers love a secret and the twins will be no diffrent and god forbid anything happends to them they will hate their Mother for allowing it to happen.

If Madeleine was abused and by some wonderful twist of fete she is still alive as years go by if she is found like Shannon I hope someone keeps her safe...

I dont know what happend if she was abducted by a stranger their campaign seems even more twisted as they have again and again put her in more danger and spent money to find her on wages for family that is sick!!!!

If Kate knows what happends and she wants her children to have a happy life she has to make sure they are safe and go to the police and tell all. She owes that to Madeleine to the twins and to herself. Who knows what goes on in the mind of someone who is abused she may be terified but if this is what happend then she needs to do something now if it could save Madeleine all the better if it is to late for that she could still save the twins.

In years to come they will think far more of her than if they found out she had covered up things and by not answering the questions for Madeleine I think they will find that evil and want to know why she did not help her...

viv said...

Hope thanks for such another really good post. I was so touched about what you said about your own daughter. Yes children can feel sad and insecure and we are sensitive to that. When my two older sons ring me, if there is something wrong I just immediately know.

I remember my eldest son and his wife just turning up when their dog got ran over, as you say just that look.

It is so hard to understand Kate, but I do know that women get themselves into this situation and can become very unwell. But you are right, she needs to do more than hint to the police which I feel she has done. She needs to be brave for her twins and for Maddie, even if she is now dead.

As you say, if she can be brave now, when the twins are older they will love her and support her. They will forgive. But they will not be able to forgive if she leaves this situation in limbo as they grow up. They will come to know the truth or at least enough of it and she will lose them forever.

Maybe she is already coming to that sad decision and I can imagine just how hard that would be. She does not seem to be a part of this current circus. I just hope her mom does the sensible think and supports Kate to do what she knows she must do, she has children she should be protecting. If she does that she is starting to make amends.


viv said...

I love this one!

Post subject: Re: Maddie posters torn off
New postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:28 am
Local Lag
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 8:56 am
Posts: 975
Location: Hanging on to a blade of grass
*You see or hear anything unusual the night of the disappearance of Madeleine?

* Observed some suspicious behavior on the part of others?
. There was something stooooopid with some shutters, wasn't it?
. A Mother finds out her kid abducted and leaves the other two children alone to go and raise the alarm.
. Educated people set a pikey's camp on a crime scene
. Mother leaves hand print on an OTHERWISE perfectly clean window.
. There was something strange that immediately told the parents that the child had been abducted. I can't tell you what, because they STILL keep it a secret. It had to be be something important, because apparently the kid had WAW before.
. I saw the parents laughing their wee little hearts out a few days after
. A "witness" saw a man carrying a child. The man was faceless. Then he got a face.
. George Harrison is alive, we're hoping for John Lennon to show up at any time now.
. OH God... so many things...

* Remember some of which may be related to the disappearance?
Oh! I think it's all about bees and honey...

* At the time, contacted the police and told what he knew?
The police tried to interview them but they refused to answer their questions.

* You know someone who knows some relevant information?
The Parents and their friends.

* Know someone who lived or worked in Praia da Luz at the time of disappearance?Yes.
They were looking for her night and day and are now shredding posters.
For exactly the same reason.

* Think you might have seen the little Madeleine since then?
No. I'm alive and I'm not as well connected as MarCUS AraCÃO CÃOrreia.

Ok, now...
Where's that phone number?
I have to tell them all of this.
Will they appreciate it?

Di said...

Hi Viv & all

Well done to you on two excellent e-mails to the BBC & The Telegraph. Getting the BBC to admit they were wrong to print their last paragraph is some achievement.

Your 09.53 post..

Well said. The Portuguese are a very proud nation and extremely child friendly, as I have said before, we have spent many happy holidays there with our children. They were always made welcome especially in restaurants nothing was too much trouble for the staff.

I could be totally wrong with my next thought. The first thing Kate said when made arguido, "what will my parents think".

I do wonder if Kate is desperately trying to protect her parents especially her very ill father.
Looking at both Kate & Gerry, Kate has always seemed to be the one breaking under the strain.

T & K gave me a good laugh.

Hi Hope

As usual an excellent and thoughtful post.

Off for the evening I will try and catch up tomorrow.

hope4truth said...

Morning Di Viv and everyone...

Well no more news in the press or on line from what I have looked at so far???

I watched Cold Case last night and 42 years after a man murdered someone they came and arrested him my 13 year old had come to join us near the end of it on her way to bed and said "but that man was murdered years ago why are they arresting him now?" so Mr Hope and I both explained it was never too late to have a trial and jail someone for life no matter how long ago the murder took place..

I then went on to say that man has had to live for 42 years waiting for a knock on the door so cant have enjoyed his life he would have been out of jail now if he had confessed to what he had done and could have had some kind of life without worry (even though his character in the show was not a nice man)...

This is what I cant understand with Kate the agony of the last two years the advancement in DNA testing (which will only get better as time passes) if Madeleine was killed or sent away her life must be hell. If Madeleine really was Abducted why not go back and answer all the questions do the reconstruction it may throw up some information that could be used to find her.

They cant argue it is too late for them to do this the 9 of them on that holiday were closer than the people who live there who are now being told to give information to them...

I have been reading some other forums lately and some of the pros seem to think Kate did not answer the questions as they were trying to fit her up?

I cant see this (although they did go on to talk about leonor) and if they think that evil bitch is innocent of abuse and helping to cover up her childs death then god help them all I dont know or care how she got her bruises if the police did it they will be found out and the law will deal with them and although I dont advocate violence what she allowed her child to go through was a million times worse than a couple of black eyes...

Reading the questions Kate refused to answer I cant understand why they were so difficult if she was going to place Madeleine with a family member although not normal it is not a crime and if she wasnt then a simple NO I WAS NOT would have answered the question.

I came to the conclusion Madeleine is dead a long time ago but if I want to think like the Pros and belive her parents are victims just like poor Madeleine then I have to ask why have they never searched for her?

Why did they go far far away to Morroco and now 2 years later go back to where she was taken when any one of us would have ripped PDL apart with our bare hands starting on the 3rd May 2007?

The local people wanted to help search for her they had family out there in no time an organised search would have been easy to arrange.

As for the PJ asking any one with information to come forward with it at the time was not a problem. The problem was at that time of night no one saw anything (well JT saw egg man who turned into cooperman and with a face like that she was hardly going to forget it and make it blank) and then there is the Smith sighting the man the Smiths saw has never come forward to say "Oh that was me with my daughter I was going back to the hotel at...." and why because this has never been made a big deal of this man could be eliminated very quickly or it could have been the abductor.

The Smiths have no reason to lie as far as they are concerned a child is missing and you dont lie when a child is in danger. Many men look like Gerry they could have been wrong about it being him the fact Team McCann dont want to push it say's they know exactly who it was!!!!

And my final rant is against the fund of which 13% has been spent on searching and the rest on Media Monotoring Spin Dr's travel to places it is unlikly Madeleine will be and posters of her even younger than when she went missing.

I rember Auntie Phil telling us how we should be helping them and how she was going to sell her house to find her niece. Well she has not sold her house but her Brother has given up his well paid job to become a Director of the fund and is taking money from Madeleine on a monthly basis.

There are many many experienced people who have retired or could have done his job for free so that the money went on searching for Madeleine I dont hear Auntie Phil having a go at her Brother for taking money from her niece but she has had plenty to say about donating and helping...

What a mess...

Wizard said...

Hi Hope,

Re the Fund expenditure. As March comes to a close so does the financial year when the Fund’s accounts need to be submitted. It therefore is no surprise the Fund is spending a little of its money on a new campaign otherwise the accounts would look decidedly dodgy.

viv said...

Morning all!

Di, I have not heard from The Telegraph in response to my email.

But, as Hope points out, the Pro Gerry spin seems to have stopped. There is nothing good they can say about this latest campaign really is there? What we have actually got is a very negative and racist message against the Portuguese. I do not believe you can ever prove anything positive like Kate and Gerry are innocent victims by seeking to rely on being negative and abusive. But that is what this latest campaign seems to be all about. Blaming anyone but themselves is what criminals always do in a desperate bid to deflect attention from themselves.

Even if the Telegraph do not answer my complaint, they will have got the message. This is not what the British Public want to hear!

As you say, Portugal is a lovely country and with very low figures on child abuse, certainly as compared to the UK, even taking into account our much higher population. The culture is as you know from first hand experience entirely pro-child, where it is just not acceptable to dump children in bed and leave them. They would be put down for an afternoon nap when it is hot and then up with the family during the evening to enjoy the meal which is very much a family affair. The Leonora scenario is, as a result, a rare event and of course Portuguese Police do not have the experience of this behaviour like our own police do. Serious child abuse to our own police is something that very sadly they have to deal with, day in day out. Kate, Gerry and Co imported that and conducted it in a beautiful country where it is rare and of course the Portuguese people are just completely shocked at their attitude to child care, let alone anything else they did. How do they expect to get any sympathy there? It was another disastrous campaign, thought up by a desperate man, who knows he is in deep trouble!

I think the fact that Kate is immediately worried what will may parents think, again demonstrates she is a far more normal certain of person with normal concerns and feelings. Something terrible happened their precious only child is in serious trouble and their little granddaughter, the first one, is missing, quite possibly dead. We never heard these sort of concerns from Gerry for anyone at all, did we? Just concern for himself and Kate, but I doubt his concern for Kate is in fact genuine.

Kate is the one who has consistently shown some signs of distress. According to the Social Worker, Yvonne Martin, she was crying profusely the next morning. The night it happened she appears to have just been in the most terrible state of shock. Since she is reclusive and clearly very unwell.

viv said...

Hiya Hope

It is a testament to how hard our police work in cases of murder and serious child abuse that, as you say, we can bring them to book so many years later when they have had to spend their life being haunted by when will that dreaded knock come on the door. When these people are serious police suspects they are left in no doubt of that.

Gerry, Kate and the rest of them involved are also clearly in no doubt. We only have to look at the rogatories of Payne, Jane and Russell to be clear on that. Gerry made plain only a few months after Madeleine went missing he wanted to "get back to normal". This is exactly what all major criminals want, they want to get away with what they did and be allowed to carry on a normal life. But we see, increasingly, even two years on, not a few months, that Gerry just cannot get back to normal. It is an example of severely distorted thinking that he ever could. But I have absolutely no doubt that he felt, as a result of all of his narcissistic little schemes he would get back to normal and be a whole lot richer into the bargain. He needs to feel powerful rich and important and I am quite sure he used Madeleine in the most terrible way to seek to achieve that.

I think the active involvement of Philomena and John, who have a similar personality to Gerry, although I am sure would never do anything so terrible; will come back to haunt them when this all comes out, as I am sure that it will.

viv said...


The Fund! How astute Wiz to recall that all this times very nicely with them having to produce the next set of accounts. I wonder if they have now squeezed another 13% of overalling spending on apparently searching for Madeleine, given they no longer have any private investigators to pay?

But what they are doing, as we know, is just another terrible waste of money and an attempt to interfere in the course of justice. They want Portuguese people to ring *Isabel* and tell her exactly what they told the police. They are not satisfied with what has been disclosed to them, as they leave "No Stone Unturned" in the desperate attempts to defend themselves, or should I say himself? Yes, I think I should, because Philomena via Gerry was clearly not defending Kate, from the very outset, was she!


Wizard said...

Morning Viv,

A pro McCann poster on 3A’s suggests the link to the McCann website by the LP is entrapment. The reference is made regarding the link to donations to the Fund on their site and any possible future of current investigation regarding the premises on which the fund is based i.e. Madeline is still alive and the parents are not involved in her disappearance hence donations are sought to find Madeleine.

Is this pro argument as ridiculously thin as it seems in your opinion.

Comment quote.
“By doing this they are making any prosecution re the fraud impossible due to the defence of entrapment.”

viv said...

Hi Wiz

In order for a defence of police entrapment there has to be very unfair and very deliberate behaviour on the part of the police. The classic example is R v Stagg where a woman police officer was making suggestions of perverted murder to Stagg with a view to getting him to confess to the crime.

If Madeleine is still alive, that does not mean the McCanns are not guilty of criminal conduct. I just cannot understand this all or nothing approach people have. Either they killed her and they are guilty, or she was abducted and so they are innocent. This is just absurd. Parents are frequently involved in the abduction or other disposal of their own children. She could quite easily have been abducted but the parents are guilty of the offence of kidnapping as Karen Matthews was because IMO Gerry arranged it and took part in it. Indeed the evidence we have clearly suggests that. Witnesses saw Madeleine being carried off that night and there is also the witness of the taxi driver about what took place with Payne, Gerry, Kate and perhaps OB earlier in the evening.

I have heard of some desperate defences for Kate and Gerry but I think the reality is Madeleine is missing and may well still be alive. People just cannot seem to accept that what was printed in the newspapers well over a year ago now was a load of absolute rubbish. It might have been Goncalo Amaral's theory but it is not one that has been proved to be correct. Have a listen to some of the explanations Goncalo gives as to how this theory could be correct, it just makes no sense at all. She had an accident and dies but by 10 pm they have discovered that got rid of the body, cleaned up and called the police, for goodness sake¬!! They have the DVD evidence but they still want to cling on to this death in the apt theory. You know what I think is far more likely was going on in that apt. and again I am afraid we have real evidence to confirm that, not pure fantasy and a talent for writing a good book.

Madeleine is missing and she may still be alive and in the hands of criminals. I am not going to be any more graphic than that. The police say she is missing and provide a link to Kate and Gerry's webpage that also says she is missing and they want her found. In that respect they are asking for just the same thing as the police. The police are not doing anything at all to encourage Kate and Gerry to take money from the public. That is their choice and they know the risks they are running b y doing that!

Di said...

Hi All

I don't know whether you have seen this posted by Shubob on 3A's, the thought of this happening to such innocent small children is beyond belief. I know none of us like to talk about this but sadly it does happen....

Wendy Murphy: Dead little girls + drugs = suspicion of child porn.

The Patriot Ledger
Posted Mar 28,2009@05:00 AM

When children die – and parents are potential suspects – we often talk about abuse and neglect.

But when sedatives are found in a child’s body or at a crime scene, we need to talk about something else, too.

Child pornography.

The FBI has long taught about the use of sedative drugs in the making of child porn. Benzodiazepines such as Valium and Klonopin – and cheap alternatives such as chloroform – are commonly used to keep kids calm. Many of these drugs also cause short-term amnesia such that the victim has little or no memory of the event when the drugs wear off.

It’s scary to think that ANYONE would do such a thing to a child, but get this: According to the U.S. Attorney General, child porn is a multi-billion dollar industry and the people most likely to be making it are the victims’ parents.

This sick “industry” not only destroys innocent souls – it is a life-threatening “business” because the build-up of sedatives in kids’ bodies can cause deadly seizures.

If we’re going to protect children from this scourge, we have to talk more openly about it, especially during high profile cases when millions of people are watching.

Take the following stories, for example, though it should be emphasized that we have not heard from law enforcement whether there is any correlation between the deaths of these little girls and child porn.

JonBenet Ramsey was a beautiful dyed-blonde 6-year-old when she was found dead in the basement of her home. The day her body was found, her parents hired criminal attorneys and refused to submit to separate police interviews. Three search warrants were issued for child porn, and while police said none was found in the home, we really don’t know the details of what if anything was found elsewhere – or why they were looking for child porn – because the files in the case are being withheld from public view. We DO know that undigested pineapple was found in the child’s stomach and we know that a bowl of pineapple found on the kitchen table was taken as evidence, presumably tested for the presence of drugs. But we don’t know the results because, again, the file is being hidden. We also know that the child had “chronic” vaginal injuries including an “eroded” hymen, which many experts say is evidence of prior ongoing sexual abuse. When the parents eventually agreed to be interviewed by police, they were asked at length about sedatives in the home, such as Xanax and Klonopin.

Caylee Anthony was a sweet little 2-year-old when she “went missing” from her home in Florida. Her body was later found and her mother stands charged with her murder, in part because she failed to report Caylee missing for more than a month, and then lied about the circumstances of her disappearance. Human decomposition was found in the trunk of her mother’s car – along with Caylee’s hair and traces of chloroform. Law enforcement officials said that photographs of Caylee had recently been deleted from her mother’s computer.

Maddie McCann was an adorable 4-year-old who “went missing” from her hotel room in Portugal while on vacation with her British parents. The child’s hair and human decomposition were reportedly found in the trunk of her parents’ rental car. Early news reports indicated Maddie had been sedated by her parents to keep her asleep in the hotel room while they socialized nearby. The parents hired criminal attorneys and, after Maddie’s mom was named a suspect, she refused to answer police questions.

I don’t know if these cases are related to child porn. But I’m certain of three things. 1. Sedating victims is common. 2. The most valuable child porn depicts young, cute kids. 3. All three cases involve sedatives and young, cute kids.

According to the federal government, demand for child porn has skyrocketed because of the Internet, and will continue to rise unless we do a better job recognizing and talking about the problem when we see it.

It won’t be easy – in part because this stuff happens in secret, but also because we resist thinking about things that don’t feel good – and let’s face it – it doesn’t feel very good to believe parents sell their children for sex and porn.

But what’s more important? Children – or the comfort of our denial?

viv said...

Hiya Di, that is a very explicit post that does sum up the grim reality and you know I have always thought this was relevant in Madeleine's case.

Shubob has actually frequently stood against me on 3 As and instead supported Tony Bennett's theory but it would seem he has changed his mind. That is a brave and honest thing to do and I applaud him for that.

It is not nice to face the reality but I am afraid that is most definitely what it looks like and why the police are so secretive about this case. I just hope that if little Maddie is still alive and being used for photography they can trace her and rescue her from this.

She is a very pretty little girl and Gerry McCann is still using that old made up photograph of her when she undoubtedly looks the prettiest of all, that is very sick IMO and says it all.


viv said...

This is fascinating. It would seem that a British Police Officer got himself into hot water for having conversations with a known suspect Robert Murat in connection with Robert wanting to prove his innocence by enquiring can my position be fixed within a metre by tracking of my mobile phone which the police officer confirmed. But it would seem the police officer did not want to confirm that until he was confronted with a recorded telephone conversation he had with Robert Murat. It is particularly fascinating because it clearly demonstrates they must also have recorded conversations of Kate and Gerry. Also interested to note that he is the nephew of the witness Saleigh Eveleigh whose statement I posted a few weeks back.

It really serves to confirm that Robert is in fact innocent but also confirms the heavy involvement of Leicester Police phoning him etc even in those early stages.

I would imagine this police officer found himself in some considerable trouble for having that conversation with him though. I know how strict the police are having been married to one and on one occasion my husband and I were investigated for "associating with known criminals"... we did not know they were at the time! We subsequently found out the one man we had become pretty friendly with on our estate was a major criminal and another one who we used to go and visit at his warehouse and buy clothing for the children subsequently set his warehouse on fire to claim the insurance money and got 18 months. All was well in the end but they were not very nice to us at the time!

This police officer would have been warned to stay well clear of Robert Murat I have no doubt and not to give him any advice at all.

Process Volume VIII, Pages 1969 - 1974 (6 pages)

Witness statement of Philip Norman Allen 2007.07.11

Translated using 3 on-line translators. Some sections may need to be translated by a Portuguese speaker. Portuguese to follow:


Date of investigation: 2007/07/11 Time: 10:15 Location: DIC - Portimão
Entity that governs:
Funcionhrio in charge: Vítor Matos, Chief Inspector
Parents: D****** A***** Allen and N*** M***** Allen
Natural Town: County:
Nationality: English DOB: 1954/**/**
Address: *** ******* ***** ********- South Mordshire *** *** - England
Postal Code: Telephone: 01491 ****** / 0783 *******
Marital Status: Married Occupation: English police officer
Local work: Thames Valley Police
Phone: Fax:
ID Number: **** Issued by British Police

Informed about the family relationship with the accused or equivalent listed in the CPP Article 134, no.l and the option that it may, therefore, assist, said

---- Not knowing the Portuguese language either spoken or written was assisted in this Act by the official interpreter for the Judicial Police / ADT, D. Carla Romana Fidalgo Esteves.-----
---- Is a Detective Police Constable in England, placed in Thames Valley Police, but now is posted to the English Criminal Investigation Department Support Unit. -----
----- Has been going to Portugal for many years to spend holidays, usually to the area of Burgau - Luz - Lagos, and even purchased an apartment for about 3 years in the area of Luz, which was only completed during this year. He states that the apartment in question is located in Baia Village - Jardim da Luz - **************** - Praia da Luz - Lagos.-----
--- States that he began coming to Portugal for a holiday in the company of his family, and in particular his brother-in-law G***** T*****, on one of his trips was put up in the residential boarding house called "SALSALITO” whose owners are Ralph and Sally Eveleigh . With the passage of time he has been hosted several times by them and established a relationship of friendship with the couple.-----
---- States further and recalls that in mid-2005 he met their nephew, Robert Murat, who he had several casual contacts with, in the home, to discuss the purchase of an apartment. Does not think that he has a relationship of friendship with Robert Murat, given the nature of the conversations he had with him at the time.-----
---- Came to Portugal on 10 May 2007, to spend a week’s vacation in the company of their families, aiming to occupy the apartment he had acquired, however, this did not happen for reasons beyond his will, specifically a missing license allowing the property to be occupied. Accordingly, they had to take another apartment and part of the family stayed in the Salsalito boarding house, and remained a long time in those facilities.-----
--- When he came to Portugal was already aware of the disappearance of the child Madeline McCann, as the matter was widely reported in the English press.-----
--- Some relatives were put up in the Salsalito boarding house, and the deponent was now in an apartment located in Praia da Luz, however, as much time spent on the premises of the boarding house.------
---- Taking into account the relationship of friendship he has with the owners of the Salsalito boarding house, Mr. Ralph and Sally Eveleigh, during the week of 12/13 May 2007, because of hearing several conversations, perceived that Robert Murat had become a suspect in course of the investigation by Portuguese police in connection with the disappearance of Madeline McCann, however he did not know any concrete details about the situation.-----
---- Confirms that on May 14, 2007 was certain about the situation of the suspect Robert Murat, as his family, Sally and Ralph Eveleigh had a conversation with him. The content of this conversation was in essence that Sally and Ralph were fully convinced of the innocence of Robert Murat in respect of the disappearance of Madeline McCann. Effectively, the friends wanted some clarification on the legal and police procedures in such situations, but due to lack of evidence about the facts had only been confined to a short comment on how things are conducted in England.-----
---- Robert Murat's situation was much commented on in Salsalito boarding house, recalling that there was a large movement of family friends who moved to give support, but also a large influx of phone calls, so this subject was constantly being addressed in many different ways, but always on the side of his identified innocence.-----
---- On 16 May 2007, when at the Salsalito boarding house, Robert Murat came into the bar of the boarding house, perhaps at 14H00/15H00, given that this occurred after he had left the premises of the Judicial Police, where he remained for some time to be questioned. His friend, Sally, introduced him again to her relative Robert Murat, stating that he was an police officer in England.-----
---- Maintained some conversations with Robert Murat, which were always in the presence of others, or because they were in the same location or because they passed by them, but always on the premises of the Salsalito boarding house. The content of these discussions was always the same, namely Robert Murat expressed his innocence regarding the disappearance of Madeline McCann. Regarding his observations of the behaviour of Robert Murat – expressions, events, physical gestures – did not note any strange or suspicious behaviour or at least he never "disarmed" his calm posture.------
--- Robert Murat said that his approach to the case before us - Madeline McCann – he had only intended to help find the child, due to his command of English and Portuguese.------
--- That the talks he held with Robert Murat did not specify anything particular, namely on the McCann case, no comments were made about the police investigation that was taking place, because sometimes the deponent had knowledge of how this was ongoing. Reaffirms that the talks were on general issues, or on the procedures that are usually adopted in these situations, but nothing concrete, only recalls two situations more specifically, the first related to a message left on Robert Murat’s cell phone, allegedly from a police officer in Leicestershire, but was surprised given that the police did not know the author of the message, leaving some doubt whether it was true or false, may be someone following the situation. Accordingly Robert Murat wanted to know how it would be possible to assess whether the message in question was true or not, and whether the deponent is able to contact Leicestershire Police. After contacting Detective Constable IVOR it was found that it was a confirmation relating to the testimony of a woman who allegedly travelled on the plane with Robert Murat when both moved to Portugal.----
----- The second situation referred to a contact that Robert Murat had had with a British citizen, who reported that after the disappearance of Medelin [sic] McCann thought that the behaviour of a couple, with characteristics of "Hippies" was strange, and who lived in a villa close to the Praia da Luz, which seemed very expensive in terms of rental for those people. The outcome of this matter and solicitation of Robert Murat resulted in talking by phone with the lady, who was identified as C******** M*** and it was reformed of the English Police officer, who explaining their suspicions again, and advised her to address Leicestershire Police again, so that they do not lose any track.--
--- Was returning to England on 18 May 2007, and is sure that up to his return Mr. Robert Murat was residing in Salsalito boarding house, with the motive to have more contact with him.-----
---- Faced with the evidence provided by the Leicestershire Police on the matter at hand, as concerns the paragraph which states that his position was uncomfortable, explains that it had to do with the fact that this is a very serious and grave subject, and that given their friends Sally and Ralph were upset with what was happening to Robert Murat, and taking into account his role as a Police officer, even though in Portugal there was no possibility of helping, was feeling embarrassed enough, however, was never approached to clarify how often the police act in such situations. Also said that he considered the possibility of getting involved in this matter, even before he travelled to Portugal as it concerned an English child, however, after becoming aware that Portuguese police were handling the matter, decided not to become involved in the investigation.-----
---- Explains that whilst still in Portugal enjoying the holidays, contacted his superior in order to inform him that he was living in the area of suspect Robert Murat - Praia da Luz - and that the press were also there, given that in his work as an English Police Officer he has to preserve its image, and was promptly advised to not get involved in the situation.-----
---- When asked replied that after returning to England has not established any contact with his friends and Ralph Sally Eveleigh, nor with Mr. Robert Murat. States that some of his family returned to Portugal again and they had a rather normal contact with the above mentioned, but always with a casual nature of friendship.-----
---- Asked if he ever spoke to Robert Murat on the possibility of locating mobile phones, recalled having a conversation with him, does not know if the question where the matter was addressed was from Murat himself, or a friend of his by the name of Tuck Price. The purpose of the conversation was Murat’s interest in whether the police could locate your phone, because if this took place it would prove he was not involved in the disappearance of Madeline McCann. Moreover, remembers that the interest was on the possibility of a detailed location, almost the concrete place. States that he responded that this was possible, that it could be located in a very precise area, but emphasised that it was the phone that was located and therefore the user could not be determined. Secondly, recalls that this conversation occurred in the Salsalito boarding house and in the presence of others, and even associates this conversation to the context of the bar.-----
---- Moreover, states that these issues related to the location of mobile phones is information that is generally known in England, given that during trials there is great emphasis on this evidence, so this type of information is of common knowledge. Affirms with certainty that this conversation took place after the 14 May, 2007, ie after Robert Murat was a suspect in the investigations arising from the disappearance of Madeline McCann.-----
--- Adds that the tenor of the question now before us seemed as a genuine intention of Robert Murat wanting to prove his innocence and not as a way to collect information on police procedure. As stated this information is widely known in England, and judges that the explanation did not break any confidentiality or professional secrecy.-----
---- Specifies that he will not have had any more conversation with Robert Murat, indicating that he made a great effort not to do so, since the goal of every citizen and the police in particular, is trying to discover Madeline McCann’s whereabouts, and as directed by his superior decided not to do so.-----
---- Confronted with the content of the conversation that he conducted on the telephone with Robert Murat on May 15, 2007, between 15H15 and 15H27 as "Statement of Hearing and Transcript of telephone interceptions" in the Court page 1683, replied that he recalls this conversation now, but honestly had the idea of a bar environment, because this conversation may actually have occurred on the phone installed there. Confirms the content of the conversation and it follows the state of anxiety and anguish in which his friend Sally Eveleigh was. It follows the same sense as above, ie the location "to the meter" of a cell phone. Currently cannot specify whether there were two conversations, in other words, people with Robert Murat himself and the one that took place on the telephone, however, does not exclude the hypothesis of having occurred.-----
--- Want to make it explicit that the content of the conversations he had with Robert Murat, was to prove his innocence and is sure that the information he provided is well known, not finding serious what he explained to the people, stating that it could be explained by any lawyer.-----
--- Moreover, while giving the testimony to the English Police officer he had completely forgotten this conversation, because he had not thought it important, given the tenor of it.-----
---- Asked if someone commented that the content(s) talk(s) not answered.-----
--- When asked stated does not recall any other detail of interest to this investigation.-----

No more was said. Read through, ratified and will sign together with the interpreter who witnessed the act.-----

Signed in the presence of myself who took the testimony.

viv said...

It gets worse, I actually think this police officer would have got the sack for this! He phoned Robert and told him what the police could do! Oh dear!! Being overly helpful as a friend of Saleigh, Robert's Aunty, definitely the sack job!


This is a transcript of a call recorded on 15th May 07 between ****, a British Police Officer, and Robert Murat.

**** calls him at home to discuss his concerns over his phone, ironically enough.

The breaks between the text are page breaks and the translation provided is google Im afraid.

The original call was conducted in English but the original version is not in the file, only the PJ translated copy.

Hello, Robert, yes .. .
Rob - How are you? Okay?
**** - Yes, I am well, call me ****, how are you?
Rob - Hello, ****!
**** - I'm fine, AHM .. . now I am at home of Sally.
Rob - Yes
**** - But all, the whole family is here, so .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - I am a police officer in the United Kingdom.
Rob - Yes
**** - AHM .. . Sally spoke to me about your phone h.. .
Rob-signal, just, just to be informed, they told me they could follow
the signal of my mobile phone.
**** - Yes
Rob - AHM .. .
**** - (inaudible) also.
Rob - What, sorry?
**** - They can do it (inaudible) respectively.
Rob - What, what do you mean? Sorry.
**** - There is, there is something called analysis of demand for cell.
Rob - Yeah. I can, I can point out that, sorry?
**** - Yes, of course, yes.
Rob - Analysis of demand for cell, okay.
**** - Okay, what, in practice what it says is that the police could ask the
Your mobile telephone .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - whatever it may be .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - AHM ... the complete history of where your phone was, the
calls that were made, either for entry or exit from .. .
Rob - Yeah.
**** - E.. . but perhaps most important to you, where you can even show
I was or might, can, can, can get the signal from where the
his phone was, this, this, I have to say, is not .. .
Rob - Where was.
**** - yeah, yeah, it shows, not shows where you went.
Rob - Yes
**** - Just shows where your phone was, but ...
Rob - OK, but AHM .. . may ultimately help.
**** - No doubts

Rob - And Others. . the mere fact that probably already heard it a million
times, I am completely innocent, is simple, I have ... you know, not
ronsigo believe that this is happening, AHM .. . and the simple fact is, I am
try to find ways to prove where you were.
**** - Yes
Rob - So, after all.
**** - Yes
Rob - This is a way of trying to do it, knew it was not possible.
**** - Hm .. .
Rob - AHM .. . and why .. . you know, was wondering if, if, if this had been done,
ultimately, because eventually, I do not know, I, myself, I was here in
: wing, but which can have? How much area is giving?
**** - Well, it really depends on the number of satellites, where it is.
Rob - Yeah.
**** - usually about the phones pick up anything between three
2 seven satellites.
Rob - Three to seven .. .
**** - Yes
Rob - Three to seven satellites .. .
**** - Yes
Rob - Ok.
**** - And AHM ... so, that means ... if, if ... say, three,
can put it on about a hundred, a hundred yards (2.74 meters) or so.
Rob - So, about a hundred yaruk.
**** - Yes, some one hundred yards or so, yes.
Rob - Or well, okay.
**** - AHM .. . the more the more satellites there, more .. .
Rob - Nearest .. .
**** - Nearest may give a certain location.
Rob - Yeah, okay, okay, this is absolutely .. .
**** - Yes. .
Rob - Fantastic, but if, for example if I go with them, with
: sses satellites, with these phones .. .
**** - Yes. .
Rob - They went to together with me?
**** - Yes, yes.
Rob - Oh, great, great.
**** --
Some of these phone calls, these phones.
**** - Ah ...
Rob - I need to call my carrier, anyway.
**** - Yes
Rob - And whether we did that night a phone call with this phone.
**** - Well, they have the history of your calls, ahrn .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - What, what .. .
Rob - Well, they are actually in fact they have my phone this
moment, so .. .
**** - (inaudible)
Rob - Yeah, so they have my phone, my computers and
****-Hm ...
Rob - But after all, have nothing to hide, whatever.
**** - You used the computer that night?
Rob - I think not, I am not sure, I do not remember, to be honest.
**** - Because once again they can search o. .. the history of
computer, so if .. .
Rob - Yeah.
**** - If you had used the suapassword.
Rob-O that once again, once more, I gave them everything, so they have
everything .. .
**** - Yes
Rob - But ultimately I have nothing to hide, whatever.
**** - Hm ...
Rob-I did nothing, I am being crucified.
**** - Yes
Rob - My whole life is being crucified.
**** - Yes
Rob - E.. . my whole family has been crucified, AHM .. . although
saying that the police of Leista has been absolutely fantastic with my
family, have helped it, even, even.
**** - Yes
Rob - Until someone asked the media to thank the police for
Leista for all the work they have done and looked for families.
**** - Hm, hm .. .
Rob - And so, I hope they do, can not come from me, but asked, I asked them
to see that part, you know?
**** - Yes,% C

Rob-If you can think of in any other prospects that, that
can .. .
**** - Hm .. .
Rob - Ahrn ... from a technological standpoint, that may put me or
situate me in a place, or something .. .
**** - Hrn ...
Rob - Please tell me, because I am trying to add a few things to
see, to prove what I was doing.
****-Hm ...
Rob - I, as I said, I DES, I am desperate, after all, right?
You know, put me in a kind trap malignant, when did
absolutely nothing.
****-Hm ...
Rob - When I tried to help.
**** - Yes
Rob - AHM ... and is all right ... is all right ... I must say that you are very frightened,
when they start, they start to add things and ahrn .. . i know
who did nothing.
**** Unfortunately, the press, well, the impression I have is that the press
here .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - You must bear up relatively well because of sub judice.
Rob - Yes
**** - But it is clear that with (inaudible) national do not call into question,
but the (inaudible) because now there is an international press,
you can see the Sky TV, gave the world .. .
Rob - Yeah, right.
**** - And that kind of stuff, so I did not .. . I am very .. . I am not
Portuguese familiar with the work.
Rob - Yes
**** - And AHM .. . what I saw until now (inaudible).
Rob - Okay, okay (laughter).
**** - Yes. .
Rob - Well, I mean, I, I have translated (inaudible) during the
recent days.
****-Hm ...
Rob - And the work they are doing there is absolutely, even to go
details, really good, following all clues, anything to that effect,
ahrn .. . and they,
Rob - Why are pointing to me, AHM .. . I have to be really honest,
they were, they did a very good job, and, you know, concerned about it .. .
****-Hm ...
Rob - They worked it even harder, in that sense, but .. .
**** - Yes
Rob - really should not praise the people who are here trying to
crucify me.
**** - Well, yes, it is always a thing, from my point of view .. .
Rob - I think it seems very, very (inaudible).
Rob - Well, you know, these, these things happen, and sometimes AHM .. . could .. .
If you look at the statistics .. .
Rob - Yeah ...
**** - Usually people are known to the family or (inaudible)
walk around, and of course we want to communicate this kind of thing that
happening (inaudible).
Rob - Yeah, exactly, exactly.
**** - Ahrn .. .
Rob - The other thing to me is very worrying is that they, they are
leaving behind what is important, and this is the girl at the end of the day. A
my life is important, do not misunderstand me (laughter).
**** - Hm .. . yes.
Rob - My life is important, I do not want to be crucified, and e. .. you know,
crucified and be completely innocent.
****-Hm ...
Rob - Ah rn ... and I have been crucified, but they have, I hope that they
keep focused on that, in what is important and we find the
idiotic to have this girl.
**** - Hm ...
Rob - But now I think I am, it seems, therefore AHM .. .
this is what I do, I wanted to do.
**** - Hm .. .
Rob - What with, which continue to focus on that aspect. AHM .. .
Okay, well, thank you for your help, thank you very, very

****-Hm ...
Rob - I was helping the mother to each coisitas do, I think she came to
box around the eight AHM .. . and I was .. . I think I got here first,
I am sure, I am almost sure that I got here first. I do not
I remember exactly, that's the problem, I think I came here
first and put me with her when she came here, and AHM .. . basically
I was here all night to talk and laugh and this, this, we heard some sirens to
pass and I said oh, that sounds like (inaudible) (laughter).
****-Hm ...
Rob - With the sirens going on AHM ... and then we heard earlier, when the
my sister called the seven in the morning AHM ... said one girl had
disappeared, well, was my mother who knew, I was still in bed,
agreements between the kitchen and it was when my mother told me.
**** - Hm ...
Rob - What a girl had disappeared and everything started from there, is a
Hell, it is a hell.
****-Hm ...
Rob - But now I, me, me .. . what I do now is I call my sister,
it is providing testimony in the police to Leista.
****-Hm ...
Rob - AHM .. . and I .. . I ask you to ask them if they can, if they
legal authority to do this thing the phone.
**** - You AHM .. . a telephone English?
Rob - I got a phone English and Portuguese another phone, hang with
**** - Okay.
Rob - That is why I am trying to get the perspective of the phone English.
**** - Yes, but they can do the same with the Portuguese telephone.
Rob - Yeah, but I do not know if they have permission to do so, that is, the
problem is this.
****-AHM ...
Rob - Or they may ask this, or anything the
Rob - E. .. I mean AHM ... the end of the day, I know where I was, is
**** - Yes
Rob - and is not elsewhere, if you ask me (laughter).
**** - Yes If .. . the same, the same applies to phone, if done, was done
a call from the phone, you can get, you can get .. .
Rob - The signal .. .
**** - Well, they do not detect the signal, they can get the calls
and made the calls received .. .
Rob - Yes
**** - If someone was telephoned at home and then .. .
Rob - I think, I think .. . I do not recall what time it was, but I think the call
my daughter, ahrn .. . despite not having spoken with her, left a message
No answering machine .. .
**** - Ahrn .. .
Rob - I think we were not there.
Rob - But I do not recall exactly what time it was.
**** - Yes
Rob - AHM .. . So, I hope, which has been around that time.
****-Hm ...
Rob - So, I hope it will be by phone, either by phone from home .. .
**** - Hm ...
Rob - I hope this puts me in a completely different place, good
at the place where I, I know I was.
**** - Yes, yes.
Rob - (inaudible).
**** - Yes
Rob - So this is what I am trying to do now.
**** - Between, between those two things, between the two mobile phone
and fixed, and if the computer was doing some e-mails or not ...
Rob - Yes
**** - All these things can do, can .. .
Rob - the place.
**** - can detect the location where you were (inaudible).
Rob - Other, another, another thing, we have a .. . a router that has been placed
by a private company that came here and put the router is a router
(inaudible), yes?
**** - Hm .. .
Rob - AHM ..
**** - Hm .. .
Rob - AHM .. . and the guy said .. . I do not know what this means, but he said
that was planned for the time American urn or something, there is some
specific reason, it would be a problem, or .. .
**** - AHM .. . good, I can analyze it, frankly I think not, but .. .
Rob - Well, when we were talking about this, he said it seemed strange .. .
**** - Yes

Rob - It was strange (inaudible)
**** - Yes
Rob - On the sound of that. Ok!
**** - (inaudible) them, they are technical in any way identified
it soon, yes.
Rob - Okay, sir, thank you very, very much for your help.
**** - (inaudible).
Rob - Thank you very, very much.
**** - All right, mate, stay well.
Rob - Stay well.
**** - Bye.
Rob - Bye, bye.

viv said...

"British Ambassador is this definitely a case of abduction"

"I dont think we can make any assumptions at this stage"

So much for them being on the McCanns side eh?

The clip also points out the shutter on the window and asks how could an abductor have got through that!

Ambassador, last bit on this clip:


viv said...

From the McCanns tame journo, Kandohla in The Express (sick buckets at the ready guys) I like they way they cannot at this stage confirm whether it will be one or two, maybe Gerry will put a few more bruises on her..get a life Kate!

Story Image

Madeleine McCann

Sunday March 29,2009
By Tracey Kandohla and James Murray

THE parents of Madeleine McCann are planning to give a rare television interview to make a fresh appeal for information which they hope could lead to her being found.

Kate and Gerry McCann are also considering flying out to Portugal in the coming weeks to boost their renewed efforts there for a breakthrough in the run-up to the second anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3.

A source close to the couple said: “Discussions are taking place now to work out what to do for the anniversary. One idea is for a television appeal from one or both of them.”

As part of the new drive, 10,000 leaflets will be handed out to people who live on the Algarve in the coming weeks and large posters have also been put up.

Kate and Gerry have also updated their website with a new heartfelt message. They said: “Can you imagine a little girl or boy out there, hoping and waiting to be found but for people then to write them off, forget about them, just because there’s been no ‘news’?

“We urge you to remember Madeleine as a real, living and findable little girl. In spite of all the investigative work done, there is still absolutely nothing to suggest harm to Madeleine and therefore, a very real likelihood that Madeleine is alive and well. It is vital that we never, ever give up on Madeleine.”

Their missing daughter was very much in their thoughts when the couple celebrated Mother’s Day with their other children, twins Amelie and Sean, both three, at a church service last weekend near their home in Rothley, Leicestershire. Amelie, who bares a striking resemblance to Madeleine, clapsed her sister’s favourite Cuddle Cat toy tightly in her hand throughout the service.

For Kate, who looked happy and relaxed, it was her second Mother’s Day without Madeleine, now five. Web-users around the world still pay tribute to Madeleine who vanished from a holiday flat in Praia da Luz while her parents dined nearby.

They continue to post their own messages on YouTube with pictures of Madeleine. The couple’s spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “What goes on the internet has not been sanctioned by Kate and Gerry. We just hope that anything about Madeleine is supportive and genuine.

viv said...

Rosiepops said...

Forgot to say I will now contact the UK Foreign Office, the Home Office, the Prime Minister and our Cultural department.
27 March 2009 17:33

I am sure that will cheer their little hearts or give them a belly aching good laugh :-)))))

hope4truth said...


I hope to god I am proved wrong and Madeleine is alive (and happy is probebely too much to hope for) after all it is her own Father who has told us she is in the hands of a peadophile ring.

Their new apeal says...

“Can you imagine a little girl or boy out there, hoping and waiting to be found but for people then to write them off, forget about them, just because there’s been no ‘news’?

No I cant imagine that at all poor little girl must be terrified especialy if she can see her parents on many many occasions smiling and laughing she must be thiking they are fine without her.

“We urge you to remember Madeleine as a real, living and findable little girl. In spite of all the investigative work done, there is still absolutely nothing to suggest harm to Madeleine and therefore, a very real likelihood that Madeleine is alive and well. It is vital that we never, ever give up on Madeleine.”

No harm has come to her well you have told us she is with a peadophile ring I dont want to think about the harm sick bastartds like that could do to a child and I dont want to think of them killing her because she is too hot to handle her eye thanks to your good Marketing would have been a death sentance for her..

Their missing daughter was very much in their thoughts when the couple celebrated Mother’s Day with their other children, twins Amelie and Sean, both three, at a church service last weekend near their home in Rothley, Leicestershire. Amelie, who bares a striking resemblance to Madeleine, clapsed her sister’s favourite Cuddle Cat toy tightly in her hand throughout the service.

For Kate, who looked happy and relaxed, it was her second Mother’s Day without Madeleine, now five. Web-users around the world still pay tribute to Madeleine who vanished from a holiday flat in Praia da Luz while her parents dined nearby.

So she was in their thoughts as Kate clutched Cuddle Cat and we then hear Kate looked happy and relaxed???

Sorry I know not every moment will be sad but another anniversary and Kate looks happy and relaxed how the hell can she look happy? how the hell can she relax? This is not IMHO the description of a Mother who is worried sick as her daughter is missing and could be dead this is the description of someone who thinks they have got away with it....

This is a woman we are told hardley ever goes out and spends hours looking over the files to find that one clue that may save Madeleine.

I honestly cant imagine how Kate feels deep inside her soul but happy and relaxed are not two of the emotions I would think of.

Now I come to think about it Christmas she was having a good time many times she is described as being happy???

Is this an attempt to make her look heartless by the press? Do they ever describe poor Gerry as being happy and relaxed?

Maybe Kate is being set up to take the fall should things ever go wrong for them. Gerry and his family have told us she is not ever alone with the twins and she has been made out to be unstable...

As for their findable little girl when they wont make their friends return for a reconstruction and still call them friends I have to ask just how much do they want to find her and had this happend in England would they have been allowed to leave and refuse to help the police?

I dont think Portugal had any backing from us and in fact preasure was applied (and Madeleine was not important enough for questions to be answered)...

They shot off to Morroco and insisted that is where she was and now 2 years too late they go back to where it happend because they think the people of PDL are just like them and their scummy friends and would not answer questions on behalf of a missing 3 year old child...

All I can say is dont judge other people by your own apaling standards strangers searched and gave up their time for Madeleine while you jogged laughed and Kate made herself look pretty for the cameras (was that Gerry's idea like the swimsuit???)...

9 people have left Madeleine to rot with their lies, spin and lack of cooperation but Gerry wants everyone to blame the good people of PDL for everything that has happend...

viv said...

Hiya Hope

No harm come to her? Just two years away from her family and cases like Kampusch and Frizl give Gerry comfort. I am sure what he is so clearly implying would not give poor little Madeleine any comfort at all, or make her feel really fit and well.

What a sad excuse for a human being!


Di said...

Hi Viv/Hope

The words, findable little girl, it is as if he has lost his wallet again, what an extraordinary word to use about your missing child, but then again Gerry said it, so perhaps not.

Di said...


Delete the link if you are not happy with it.

big-l 3A's he does have a sense of humour.


viv said...

Asbolutely hilarious! Thanks Di:

Post subject: GERRYS NEW BLOG 29 3 09
New postPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:33 pm
Hardened Criminal

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:58 pm
Posts: 1992
Location: brigadoon scotland
hi fundraisers
it should have came to your notice(if those barstewards had printed it)that kate and i are going to have a poster campaign in portugal in the coming few weeks to help find that girl we lost ,we were actually planning a huge presence there but auntie phil said she couldn,t go as she had a weight watchers meeting that week(whats she like eh :D )
clarence was in the news this week (well he hasn,t stopped throwing it in my face since)ambulance chasing again he,s like a dog with a bone (oops shouldn,t mention f_cking dogs should i).
its came to my notice that some of you followers are asking where kate is,well i,d tell you but it would be unhelpful to the scouse bitch as she,s never lifted her ar_se of the new DFS sofa the fund bought.
got a nice phonecall from the home secretary this morning (jacqui smith)wondering how the f_ck did we get away with publishing those lies eh! um company accounts without the press invasion she got re her second home and her paid lackey (£40,000 per annum) her husband Richard Timney getting porno films and claiming expenses for them ?
well i just laughed lol "jacqui i said calm down dear its well within the realms of responsible chugging" oh gerry she chuckled what are you like eh to which i replied "you know what i,m like jacqui thats why the statements from those so called friends those two doctors regarding me and david never made the media here in the uk lol"
as ive mention before about our new poster appeal i must let you all know that kate and i have seriously asked ourselves should we go over too to help (hahhaaaaaaaaa i,m taking the p ish i know ) no no honestly we did think about it ,well it was a kinda passing remark (passing by kate and her G&T to the mini bar lol).
well gotta go folks as its sunday and clarence usually get his bath today (lol you think the cant would have learnt after what happened in pd l)

any hoo gotta go kates screaming at sean the little bu_ggers got his hands on tonys 60 reasons and flashing it in her face again lol whats he like eh>

viv said...

Hiya again Di

On a more serious note, to someone who deliberately lost something to claim the massive rewards from doing so, finding her again, may seem feasible. After all, he got his wallet back, as arranged!


Di said...

Hi Viv

You could have a very good point there Viv. K & G have never mentioned the reward money why? Perhaps all along they have been working on a way that they could collect it for themselves.

It would only take one of their paid monkeys to claim a sighting and then find a supposedly abducted Maddie or sadly her remains, and claim the money.

I do hope I am wrong.

viv said...

Hiya Di

That is a good point but was not what I was actually implying.

I think they have never mentioned the reward because they knew Madeleine was still alive and did not want some criminal "finding" her to claim that reward. If she is being used for photographic purposes by paedophiles there are obviously those who would recognise her and could provide that information.

By speaking of the rewards I was more thinking in the mind of a typical fraudster. The rewards to Gerry were the £10M he planned to make from books and films about the terrible distress that he and Kate have suffered. And, any others he could sue. He clearly had the PJ in his sights for not managing to find out precisely what HE did with Madeleine and planned to sue them for £1M.

Fraudsters, by their very nature, are extremely audacious people. They also quite often tend to be narcissists whose dreams simply do not match reality!


viv said...


Jacqui Smith's humiliation: Minister 'could face axe' after claiming taxpayers' cash for husband's pornographic films

By Ian Drury and Michael Lea
Last updated at 2:37 AM on 30th March 2009

* Comments (0)
* Add to My Stories

Jacqui Smith faces the threat of a humiliating demotion after she was forced to apologise yesterday for using House of Commons expenses to pay for pornographic movies watched by her husband.

Insiders believe the embattled Home Secretary has a matter of only a few months to save her political career.

She was already fighting sleaze allegations, and MPs said the latest revelations raised 'real questions' about her future in the Cabinet.

Despite strong backing from Downing Street, speculation was growing that she could be sidelined as part of a reshuffle, possibly as early as June after the European elections.
Jacqui Smith
Richard Timney

Apologies all round: Jacqui Smith was said to be 'mortified' yesterday as her husband Richard Timney faced the media

Miss Smith submitted the bill for blue movies watched at her family home in Redditch, Worcestershire, as part of a £67 television package claimed under MPs' controversial secondhome allowance.

She signed it off and, incredibly, it was passed by the Commons authorities.

Her 46-year-old husband Richard Timney, who also acts as her £40,000-a-year assistant, yesterday made a public apology over his viewing habits while his wife was away.

The TV receipt, leaked to journalists, is one of a million-plus bills which judges have ordered MPs to release for publication following a lengthy Freedom of Information campaign, but which remain secret.

As a desperate salvage operation was launched, Miss Smith was said to be 'mortified' by the revelations.

She promised to pay back the cash spent on the subscription-only channel. Those close to her suggested that her relations with Mr Timney were increasingly tense.
Richard Timney

Shaming apology: Timney speaks to the media outside the house he shares with his wife

The fact that he was watching porn is particularly embarrassing since she has taken a tough stance on the sex industry including a pledge to crack down on lap dancing clubs.

The Home Secretary is already embroiled in a sleaze inquiry after clawing in £116,000 of expenses by claiming a bedroom at her sister's London address was her main home.

Critics said the latest scandal had left her credibility in 'tatters'. But she insisted she had no intention of resigning as she was not at home when the explicit movies were viewed.


* RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: Not even in the Augean sleaze of the Major years did we have a Home Secretary claiming porn on expenses
* Porn shame of Mr Jacqui Smith: Will their marriage survive this latest controversy?
* PETER McKAY: Porn free... but it's the greed that is truly obscene
* MAIL COMMENT: Bare-faced fraud that taints every MP
* Blue movies on expenses: Jacqui Smith's husband apologises for watching porn... paid for by the taxpayer
* 'We were told: Go and spend it, boys,' says MP who claimed £310,000 for his holiday home
* Now electoral roll row engulfs Tony McNulty

Downing Street gave forceful support to the Home Secretary, saying she was 'doing a great job' and had 'done the right thing' by taking steps to rectify an 'inadvertent mistake'.

But the Prime Minister is certain to be furious that one of his senior ministers has become a figure of ridicule.
Jacqui Smith with her husband in 1997

Happier times: Jacqui Smith with her husband in 1997

Miss Smith's claim for the cost of two porn films came when she 'mistakenly' submitted an invoice for a TV package when billing for an internet connection.

An itemised receipt handed to the Commons authorities showed the films had been watched on channels offered by the Virgin Media cable TV service.

Subscribers can watch adult-only movies on the Playboy Channel, the Adult Channel and Television X. Films available include Sweaty Sex and Happy Husbands And Willing Wives.

The bill revealed the blue movies each cost £5 and were watched on April 1 and April 6 last year. It also include two pay-per-view screenings of the film Ocean's 13, each costing £3.75, and another £3.50 to watch the movie Surf's Up.

The £67 claim was submitted in June last year.

Although Mr Timney puts in her expenses claims as part of his job as her assistant, Miss Smith must personally sign a form each month declaring they were 'wholly, exclusively and necessarily' incurred for her duties as an MP.

It was paid under the discredited additional costs allowance (ACA), which allows MPs to claim £24,000 a year to run homes in their constituency and another close to

Television subscriptions are permissible and it once emerged that Gordon Brown claimed for his monthly Sky Sports fees.

Yesterday 46-year-old Miss Smith - whose majority of 2,716 in Redditch is the slenderest of any cabinet minister - said: 'I am sorry that in claiming for my internet connection, I mistakenly claimed for a television package alongside it.

'As soon as the matter was brought to my attention, I took immediate steps to contact the relevant parliamentary authorities and rectify the situation. All money claimed for the television package will be paid back in full.'

Outside their detached home, Mr Timney said: 'I am really sorry for any embarrassment I have caused Jacqui. I can fully understand why people might be angry and offended by this.'
Mahood cartoon

A friend of the couple said Mr Timney had been given an ' ear-bashing' by his wife and added: 'It is fair to say Richard will be sleeping on the sofa for a while.'

Miss Smith is being investigated by Parliament's standards commissioner after claiming more than £116,000 of taxpayers' money for a second home while lodging with her sister Sara in south-east London.

She classifies the 'digs' as her main residence, which leaves her clear to bank up to £24,000 a year in Commons expenses to run the Redditch house where she and her husband live with their two young sons.

Tory MP Mark Field said: 'The entire Commons allowance system is now indefensible. It's one thing to make dubious claims on the location of your second home but for the husband of a Home Secretary to be claiming for pornographic TV is completely beyond the pale.'

Fellow Conservative backbencher Philip Davies said: 'Claiming that her sister's back bedroom is her main home is one thing but this could push her over the cliff.

'It is surely not legitimate to use Commons allowances to buy blue movies. I cannot see how she can survive.'

Documents handed to national newspapers show the extent to which Miss Smith, who is paid £141,866 a year, has kitted out her family home using her additional costs allowance.

She has claimed for virtually every household item over the past five years - including a £550 kitchen sink and even an 88p bath plug.

Last year Mr Timney, who quit his civil engineer's job to bring up the couple's two children when Miss Smith became MP for Redditch in 1997, was unmasked as the author of a series of letters attacking the Conservatives.

He sent a string of letters to the Redditch Advertiser backing his wife's identity-card plans and criticising the Tories over security and transport.

The porn revelation is the latest expenses scandal to engulf Labour.

Jobs minister Tony McNulty's political career is also in peril after standards commissioner Mr Lyon launched an inquiry over claims he abused his expenses.

Wizard said...

Jacqui Smith – well you would never believe - it porn movies on government expenses. This is the problem of employing members of the family to run your affairs they are difficult to sack when they get it wrong and it’s also difficult to pass the buck.

Smith stays with her sister rooming in a back bedroom. I think it right and proper that she should pay her sister for room and board and even a little over the going rate for the inconvenience of security etc due to her position. But how in God’s name does that come to over a £100,000 per annum. Very lucrative - I must go and clear out the back bedroom and take on a lodger. LOL

As we can see employing family members or friends is not a good idea. GM has slipped up on this with the Fund – time and time again we see people and it doesn’t seem to matter how much money they have, they just can’t resist a freebee – the fund will be the McCanns' downfall one way or another.

Di said...

Hi Wizard

I agree Jacqui Smith has much to answer for, her expenses are way above what they should be. However as she says she has done nothing wrong and her expenses are within the boundaries. Clearly the boundaries need revising asap.

We are in a dreadful recession where many people are losing their homes, businesses and everything they have worked so hard for.

Politicians are meant to represent us and work for us. Forgive me if I think we are being robbed by them as I speak, they are leaving us high and dry, do they care NO they only care about saving their own skins and careers.

viv said...

Wiz, that is a great point about the dangers of employing friends and family to keep the wealth locked in as it were. As you say, it has led to the downfall of Jacqui and it will lead to the downfall of the Arch Money Grabber, scheming conniving lying cold emotionless Gerry McCann ! Oh and I had to agree with many on 3 As last night, coke snorter, another reason for high budget demands. If Gordon does not dispose of this piece of dead wood very promptly now he is tarred with the same brush. We already heard about his own expense claims. No ordinary soul can get away with fiddling their expenses and getting the tax payer to pay your telly licence and cleaner etc, so why should they get away with theft, that is just sanctioned at the very highest levels. There is nothing to choose between Labour and Convervative, it is a well recognised perk and when people in the UK are now having it so hard in a recession, maybe it is high time all of the jumped off their gravy train.
Come on Gordon, if you want to hang on to your job, make a stand!


Wizard said...

“….and it will lead to the downfall of the Arch Money Grabber, scheming conniving lying cold emotionless Gerry McCann.”

That’s telling him Viv - LOL

Di said...

Afternoon everyone

Hi Viv

How right you were. Gerry slates the media with one hand and uses it with the other when it suits his needs. If only the media would treat him with the contempt he so deserves.


3A's posted by Djorn

Di said...

Can anyone tell me, who is the General on 3A's that is supposed to be looking in?

Wizard said...

Hi All,
Not much news about today but below is an interesting article from Duart Levy.

McCanns want to return to television
By Duarte Levy 31.03.09
With little over a month to go for the second anniversary of the disappearance of Maddie, the little English girl that went missing in Praia da Luz on the 3rd of May 2007, her parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, are once again negotiating a television interview, during which they expect to launch a new public appeal, according to a source close to the couple.
According to the same source, the McCann couple’s interview would be recorded in England, but equally broadcast in our country, as there are contacts with a Portuguese television channel which, as usual, would be prepared to make a financial contribution to the fund that was created after Madeleine’s alleged abduction.
Kate and Gerry McCann – as 24Horas had already reported – are equally considering the possibility of traveling into our country, to the Algarve, to mark the second anniversary of their daughter’s disappearance and to reinforce the campaign that is presently being carried out in the area of Praia da Luz and its surroundings.
The announcement of a television interview with the couple has even surprised the British professionals in the sector, as earlier this month; Madeleine’s father had issued violent criticism against the work of English and Portuguese journalists, in front of a parliamentary commission.
After refusing to cooperate with the PJ in the official inquest into their daughter’s disappearance, Kate and Gerry, already as arguidos, abandoned Portugal with the assistance of diplomatic representatives of the United Kingdom in our country. An escape that was recorded and broadcast live by various television channels.
The McCanns stopped being arguidos when the Public Ministry decided to archive the process, which currently awaits better evidence, after Gonçalo Amaral left and the process was handed over to Paulo Rebelo, who did nothing to pursue the line of inquiry that had been opened in the first months of the investigation, as the PJ’s final report proves.
Several diligences remained to be carried out, including the reconstitution of the gestures and movements of the nine English adults, who accompanied Maddie in Praia da Luz and who, according to their own statements to Portuguese and British authorities, were always very contradictory. Several Spanish, English and Irish witnesses were never heard in the process.

Wizard said...

Following yesterdays posts regarding Jacqui Smith the Mail give us today. “What planet are they on? MPs get inflation busting pay rise AND expenses soar to £93m (while ordinary Brits fight recession)”
It appears they are all at it - snouts in the trough. It’s an awful lot of money paid out to load ill informed, opinionated wind bags imo.
The full extent of the Westminster gravy train has been laid bare as MPs received an inflation-busting pay rise and it was revealed that they claimed £93million in annual expenses.
Members are effectively trebling their pay by pocketing on average £144,176 on top of their back-bench salaries.
The expenses total for 2007-08 was up 6 per cent from £87.6million a year earlier, prompting fresh accusations that MPs had their 'snouts in the trough' at a time when voters are experiencing pay freezes or cuts and job losses.
To add insult to injury, it emerged that backbenchers would receive a 2.33 per cent pay rise from tomorrow, increasing their basic £63,266 salary by £1,500 to £64,766.
Gordon Brown, aware of growing public discontent, announced a freeze on ministerial pay - effectively forcing the Tories and LibDems to keep their frontbenchers' salaries the same.

Di said...

Hi Wizard


He has no shame, I would imagine all the questions will be pre-planned and K & G's answers rehearsed to a tee.

Off to watch a film, will try and look back in.

viv said...

Wizard said...

“….and it will lead to the downfall of the Arch Money Grabber, scheming conniving lying cold emotionless Gerry McCann.”

That’s telling him Viv - LOL

Well you know sometimes Wiz a bit of raw emotion is better than rational legal analysis. I try to use both!


viv said...

Wiz, those figures are truly shocking. Try to do the maths £93M divided by 650 just in expenses! A staggering £144,000 per annum!

No wonder you get so many Gerry McCann types wanting to be politicians. They get double in expenses what his salary as a consultant is!

However, I think Gerry's personal earning potential has been dramatically curtailed. Goncalo may not have had the right evidence to charge them at that time, but he did stop them dead in the money grabbing tracks!


viv said...

Wiz, thanks for the report of Duarte Levy. I do not necessarily agree with everything he says, particularly I think English and Irish witnesses were heard by Irish and Leicester Police. If there were further witnesses in Spain then clearly the PJ should have arranged that. I do not think just keep bashing the police offers a way forward from this.

I also do not think that getting the Portuguese to re-open their file is the way forward either and I am confident the Portuguese prosecutors and judiciary would agree with that given the very complex legal issues as to jurisdiction involved. Most of the witnesses and indeed the criminals are in UK, which makes criminal offences against a little British girl very much a British matter! Of course there are a lot of Portuguese witnesses and that in itself would present a problem in getting them all here, language problems etc for a trial in UK. There are no easy solutions but I believe the Portuguese people are good people and would be willing to come here to assist in justice for the little one, when the time is right.

viv said...

Can I have your thoughts on this? If the Tanner and the Smith sightings are just McCann lies, no wonder the Police do not really have a clue what happened to Maddie. Unfortunately this late reporting and then suddenly realisation several months later from the Smiths does have a rather familiar ring to it!


Well, I think it is very easy to understand (why the McCanns don't want to talk about the Smith sighting). Because they did see Madeleine's real abductor, Gerry McCann. It is quite simple really, criminals never want to talk about direct evidence against them, any more than they want to talk about their former friends, the GASPARS or Yvonne Martin, the Social Worker. This is the stuff that really frightens them! Hence their silence, there is no way they can discredit this, is there?

Post subject: Re: Revealed: The real location of the Smith sighting
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:06 am
Mafia Boss

Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 12:05 am
Posts: 4197
25th - PJ release details of JT sighting following pressure.

25th? or 26th? - 3 witnesses arrive in Portugal

26th - PJ interview 3 witnesses at Portimao.

Did I get these dates correct? Can anyone make the middle one more accurate?

Post subject: Re: Revealed: The real location of the Smith sighting
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:13 am
Hardened Criminal

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:58 pm
Posts: 1523
Harmony, do you know where I can view this photo of beige trousers on Gerry's bed, I was not aware of this. Of course I have seen him wearin the bundleman outfit on the sofa though. But there is the testimony of Yvonne Martin that the very next morning about 10 am Payne was wearing trousers of that description so do not think we can exclude him as the possible carrier. He is clearly heavily involved, DP,OB and GM cooking the timelines, a very guilty act!

Post subject: Re: Revealed: The real location of the Smith sighting

harmony wrote:
25th - PJ release details of JT sighting following pressure.

So the 25th may have been the first time that Jez Wilkins, back in the UK, may have known anything about what Tanner claimed she saw.

Have we any evidence that Jez knew about her sighting BEFORE it was publicly released to the media?

Post subject: Re: Revealed: The real location of the Smith sighting
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:35 am
Mafia Boss

Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 12:05 am
Posts: 4197
quark1: An interesting point you make. After the chat, the first time the witness spoke with the parents was on the 5th and then he flew back to UK on the 5th. He might have been told of the JT sighting before leaving, either by the parents or by their friends, I don't know.

Report this post
Profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post subject: Re: Revealed: The real location of the Smith sighting
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:40 am
Mafia Boss

Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 12:05 am
Posts: 4197
I know the 3 witnesses were interviewed in Portimao on the 26th, and I know they flew home on the 27th,

What I wish to know is what day they arrived in Portugal, was it the 26th - or was it the 25th?

It would help greatly if I knew the start times of each of the 3 interviews on the 26th (the copies I have seen omit the start times).

Last edited by harmony on Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.


viv: that photo is on mccannfiles site I think

Post subject: Re: Revealed: The real location of the Smith sighting
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:50 am
Hardened Criminal

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:58 pm
Posts: 1523
Thanks Harmony I will try and find it.

I have seen the PJ press release that they ultimately released where they are stating the time in between the two sightings they then had. I do not think it was much to do with Gordon Brown.

They put that press release out once they had the evidence of the Smiths because then they could start believing it, they obviously were not just going to take Tanner's word for it.

Which unfortunately brings me to something else that has been playing on my mind.

When you look at the map of Ireland, Drogheda where the Smiths live is North Eastern. Donegal and Derry where the McCann family hail from and holiday is more North Westerly but I do not think they are so far apart. I know this blows a hole in my belief in the Smith and is highly unlikely but just feel I should mention it. The Smiths did not give this evidence until about two weeks later and in circumstances where the McCanns could not get the PJ to take Jane seriously and publish the abductor sighting, but they did once they heard from the Smiths. Just a thought, I like to try and be honest and weigh everything up, even if it does destroy my own theory!


Another curious date coincidence:

1st October: Mr Amaral is finalising arrangements for the witnesses to return again to portugal.
2nd October: Mr Amaral removed from case.

I wish to know was he given advance warning or was the removal sudden?

Well you know Harmony I am afraid it is completely possible the Smiths are just telling lies for Kate and Gerry to make this abduction seem real and maybe UK authorities just did not trust them and saw a connection to Team McCann?

If you look at it that way, Mr Smith's sudden realisation, several months later than he actually saw Gerry was a very clever move because it is designed to throw off any suspicion that he is telling lies for the McCanns.


Wizard said...

Good Morning,

The Tanner sighting has to be discounted imo. She places the sighting at 9.15pm approx. and by so doing gives 4 people alibis for the alleged abduction period. The sighting alibi’s those away from the tapis bar at a crucial time. Gerry, O’Brien, herself and surprisingly Jez Wilkins – all had opportunity and knowledge of checking procedures by parents. To see an abductor at this time means he would have been in the flat when Gerry checked as GM later speculated. Neither GM nor JW sees Tanner as she walks by them on a narrow deserted street simply because she wasn’t there. This sighting suggests that she truly believes a abduction took place as she finds the need to lie and to alibi people during a crucial period - I feel if she was involved she would have liaised with Gerry and got him to confirm seeing her, if only out of the corner of his eye.

The Smith’s sighting – I believe they did see someone as they suggest, but it was not Gerry. The time for this sighting firmly places Gerry in the tapis bar and this is witnessed. Well of course all the witnesses could be lying or mistaken but the Smith sighting is cutting it very fine as GM is definitely at the table just after 10.00pm when Kate raises the alarm. (Of course as it’s the T9 giving the timings its unlikely they are accurate.) It’s very possible that Tanner saw the very same man as the Smith’s when she returned to her apartment at 9.40pm approx - she just changes the time when she saw him. Tanner knows very well this wasn’t Gerry and more to the point knows it was not Madeleine, hence her delay in reporting this otherwise very, very important fact. This 9.40pm sighting she simply transfers to an earlier time thus giving alibis to O’Brien and herself. O’Brien was away from the tapis bar for nearly half an hour and Jez Wilkins who also had knowledge and opportunity was away from his apartment for longer. Both have knowledge and opportunity but as to motive we can only speculate.

viv said...

Thanks Wiz for some interesting thoughts on this. The trouble I have with what you are saying is why do Kate and Gerry say they trust their friends implicitly if, as you are suggesting OB probably did something with her, and what on earth did he do with her!

Gerry and OB were both away from the table for a good period of time according the waiter that night. I am convinced OB was involved but cannot see what role he actually played, why was he away, what was he doing? My conviction that OB and Payne are involved is borne out by their utterly peculiar rogatory interviews and sitting cooking the timelines /always being around Gerry McCann/ Russell lying about printing those 6 x 4 pictures.

If the Smith sighting is false is done one other thing that suits Gerry McCann just fine, it alibis him perhaps at the table at the crucial time. Whilst I have not accepted this, lets face it the Portuguese Prosecutor does!

So it kind of takes me back to that sighting of the main protagonists earlier in the evening by the taxi driver. Logically in a way he is easier to believe because he is Portuguese, so is far less likely to have been got at by Team McCann and I still cannot understand how he could give such detail, the quivering chin etc and be lying. No one actually says they saw Madeleine that night apart from Gerry after all, so it does seem conceivable she was got rid of about 8 pm and the McCanns just got back in time for dinner. They drugged the twins to make sure they could go out early and leave them??

viv said...

and of course they are trying to get more evidence from Portugal! Does this actually mean they are doing one of those horrible loud hailer things like we get for elections, just as the tourist season is starting,not nice, that would seriously piss me off! Bloody design consultants, that will be the day when they actually employ some proper investigators, no way are they going to do that. I would love to have a chat with that taxi driver just to try and suss him out! What a patronising attitude to the Portuguese, want to induce an emotional response direct from Madeleine, do they think they are completely stupid!!

New Madeleine campaign underway
Updated: 30-Mar-2009



A new campaign launched by Kate and Gerry McCann to help find their missing daughter, Madeleine, has ignited fresh controversy in Praia da Luz.

For the next three weeks, posters, pamphlets, billboards, bus back advertising, mail shots and mobile A-van announcements will be targeting residents of the Lagos and Vila do Bispo areas.

New tactics have been employed in this latest campaign to try and raise the awareness of the local Portuguese community in the search for Madeleine.

Algarve design consultants Atelier do Sul have been hired to run the marketing of the campaign. Creative director Suzi Steinhofel said: “We were first approached in January about the campaign and our objective is to effectively approach the local Portuguese community about the case, as it is believed that they were never properly questioned in the first place.”

As the official press release from findmadeleine.com states: “At the time of Madeleine’s disappearance the emphasis was placed more on international appeals and it has been recognised that the local Portuguese residents of Praia da Luz and the surrounding areas have never been properly asked about information they may have to give.”

The message designed by Atelier do Sul is specifically targeted at a Portuguese market.

“We were employed on this campaign because of our knowledge of the Portuguese culture. The message on the adverts says “Não desista de min” meaning: do not give up on me, and this message comes straight from Madeleine and no other party,” said Suzi Steinhofel.

“The Portuguese community are more likely to respond to a plea from a child. People have told me that the campaign has given them shivers when they see it and this is good because we hope that the posters will produce an emotional response with a positive outcome.”

The campaign has brought the Madeleine case back to the forefront of the media agenda in both Portugal and the UK as the second year anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance approaches on May 3.

Reports of disgruntled residents in Praia da Luz reacting negatively to the campaign have been detailed in Portuguese daily newspaper Correio da Manhã and on British news channel Sky News.

Claims that posters have been “torn down in anger” by residents of Praia da Luz, reported by Sky News, have been countered by some residents in Praia da Luz who spoke directly with the Algarve Resident.

Davis Lewis, who lives in Praia da Luz, told the Algarve Resident: “To be honest I haven´t even seen any posters or billboards near where I live. We have not received anything in the post either.

“I can understand why they are targeting the local Portuguese here because the Brits in the area are pretty transient and the case also had huge international coverage so I am sure if an ex-pat had any information they would have come forward by now.”

He added: “As for claims of people ripping down posters, I haven´t seen evidence of this, however I am not sure the people in the area are very happy about the case being brought to the attention of the media again.

“People in Praia da Luz did everything they could at the time to help and for us here it is more of a case of water under the bridge, people are becoming jaded with the case. I don´t believe the answers to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann lie in Praia da Luz anymore.”

A spokesman from local medical service Luzdoc told the Algarve Resident: “I have seen two big billboards in the area and quite a few shops have the pamphlets displayed. People don’t seem all that eager to put up the posters in their windows this time but I have not seen anyone ripping upany of the campaign advertising.”

Suzi Steinhofel added: “I have not personally seen a negative reaction from the people of Praia da Luz but I have heard about a certain level of reluctance to the campaign, However, the team here have been prepared for that and have conducted the campaign cautiously because of this.”

For further information about the new campaign please visit http://www.ajude-me.eu (only available in Portuguese).

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,
I’m not sure OB is involved but as a lone male away from the tapis bar at a crucial time he must be suspected. He must have been very afraid the pj would put him in the frame hence Tanners sighting to divert attention away from him. O’Brien and Wilkin both had opportunity and knowledge of child checking procedures and home alone kids, therefore, they must be suspected but whether they are actually involved is another matter.

The McCann’s implicit trust in their T9 pals and for that matter Jez Wilkins can surely only infer their involvement in what happened to Madeleine and who was involved and who was not. This trust is completely unfounded otherwise.

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv and Wizard

Wizard if my child were missing and one of my friends had been away for most of the evening as much as I would not want to doubt them I would. When a child is missing friends come second the fact that they trust them all so much (blind faith) is one of the reasons I dont belive a word they say...

Just reading Viv's article and this paragraph...

As the official press release from findmadeleine.com states: “At the time of Madeleine’s disappearance the emphasis was placed more on international appeals and it has been recognised that the local Portuguese residents of Praia da Luz and the surrounding areas have never been properly asked about information they may have to give.”

Why was it focused on international appeals??? Because Team McCann said that is where she was and the PJ were rubbish and stupid to ask any questions...

I cant belive they will get away with this for ever their time is comming it is a bloody farce...

And for any pro who thinks I am and evil bitch for still doubting the happy couple tough because if Madeleine really was abducted they have spun a circus and made sure she stood no chance of being found!!!!!

Wizard said...

That reward money - the explanation - Can't be bothered?

Sandy Cameron explains why the reward is not being advertised
Gerry McCann’s Blogs contacted the Madeleine Fund with three questions about the reward to find Madeleine. Here are the original emails:
From: reply@findmadeleine.com
To: pamalam@hotmail.co.uk
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:09:28 +0000
Subject: RE: Reward

Dear Sir/Madam,

In answer to your questions:

As far as I know the rewards offered by the ‘News Of The World’
and other benefactors are still available.

However, we have had varying advice about the possible benefits
and problems of rewards.

So after consultation, a decision was made not to push the rewards
on our website - although the situation is constantly being reviewed.

In the meantime, if anyone has any information that may help our
Investigation Team, they should contact:
Email investigation@findmadeleine.com
Tel +44 845 838 4699

Sandy Cameron

viv said...

Hiya Hope and Wiz

and they are still doing their best to make sure she is not found, by asking people to chat to Isabel. I just do not think the Portuguese Police should have even permitted this by hopefully they/we will be bugging the line!

There is no excuse given by Sandy Cameron for not pushing the reward is there. What possible reason would stop you from pushing that when they pushed all their own rubbish about how Maddie was acting as a Little Maid in Morocco!

I believe they were not plugging that reward for fear of some offender producing Maddie to cash in on it, feeling he could earn even more from the reward.

Sandy Cameron cannot seriously believe what she has written is responsible action in the search for madeleine, she is just as bad as Philo, Gerry and John, sick and twisted.

Di said...

Hi All


I totally agree, if my child went missing whilst I was with friends and one of the friends was missing for some time, I would expect that friend to be investigated as fully as anyone else. I would also hope my friend would want this as well.

Which makes me wonder why none of the tapas would return for the reconstruction, too much to hide perhaps for some at least.

Di said...

Hi Viv

The reward has always been an issue with me. I can't remember who it was who said, mentioning the reward would only bring harm to Maddie.

The only people who brought harm to Maddie, if she was abducted, were her own parents by mentioning her eye defect and releasing photos to every media outlet available against police advice.

viv said...

This is a fascinating post from Mr Levy showing the sheer scale of resources involved in UK in Maddie case and he does not even mention SOCA and CEOP!

Five constabulary forces looking for Maddie
Even if the Leicestershire Constabulary force has taken, in the public’s view, the primary lead in supporting and co-coordinating the British Government’s police response to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, several other Constabulary forces have also participated. These details are not exhaustive given the fact that the work of the “private services” and “others” are not available to the public. Not yet…

Nottinghamshire Police – HMIC Inspection Report (July 2008)

• The force gave examples of support provided to neighboring forces, including the activation of overflow call-handling facilities (MIRWEB) to assist Leicestershire Constabulary in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

Lincolnshire Police – HMIC Inspection Report (July 2008)

• A written protocol is in place between the five East Midlands regional forces, namely the East Midlands Regional Information and Co-ordination Centre (EMRICC). This collaboration was developed to maintain communication and co-ordination across the region, thereby providing effective identification and deployment of the necessary resources to a mobilization event, which will include either a spontaneous incident or a pre-planned event, either in or outside the region. EMRICC has been activated on four occasions, including for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from Portugal in May 2007 and, more recently, during Operation Orca, which concerned the widening of the M1 motorway through the region. An ACPO lead is appointed on each occasion to direct EMRICC.

Derbyshire Constabulary – HMIC Inspection Report (July 2008)

• A written protocol is in place between the five East Midlands regional forces, namely the East Midlands regional information and co-ordination centre (EMRICC). This collaboration was developed to maintain communication and co-ordination across the region, thereby providing effective identification and deployment of the necessary resources to a mobilization event, which will include either a spontaneous incident or a pre-planned event, either in or outside the region. EMRICC has been activated on four occasions – for example, following the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from Portugal in May 2007 and more recently an operation concerning the widening of the M1 motorway through the region. An ACPO lead is appointed on each occasion to direct EMRICC.

Leicestershire Constabulary – HMIC Inspection Report (July 2008)

• The force has taken the primary lead in supporting and co-coordinating the British Government’s police response to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine McCann (whose family live in Rothley, Leicestershire), from a holiday apartment in Portugal on 3 May 2007. It has committed significant resources and has established an incident room to manage its contribution to the investigation. It has also deployed a number of staff to perform various roles in Portugal. This ongoing enquiry will continue to be a demand on the force until the investigation is resolved.
• Intelligence - The major crime investigation section (MCIS) has two dedicated analysts, although one member of staff has been committed virtually full time to Operation Task (the disappearance of Madeleine McCann). The MCIS analysts are primarily focused on evidential analysis as opposed to researching patterns, trends or predictive demands. A further analyst is in post to service protecting vulnerable people. Ample evidence was provided of the regular and routine use of problem and target profiles to support operations. Staff reported the regular use of horizon scanning and the use of open source and out-of-hours intelligence searches. There are sufficient resources in place to prepare the FSA and a range of National Intelligence Model (NIM) products that contain prevention, intelligence and enforcement activity.
• The force can evidence effective use of gold groups and gold support groups in response to critical incidents; Operation Task (the disappearance on 3 May 2007 of Madeleine McCann in Portugal) is an obvious example.
• In cases of hot intelligence, the superintendents heading major crime and SOC will direct and control resources and manage any competing demands. Good relationships exist regionally for collaborative arrangements; Operation Task (the disappearance of Madeleine McCann) illustrates how effective the arrangements are during times of excessive demand.
• The disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3 May 2007 in Portugal generated massive international media interest and placed considerable demands on Leicestershire, which had no legal jurisdiction in Portugal. The force responded immediately, dedicating staff and resources to create Operation Task. Initially, it deployed to Portugal a DCI, two FLOs and a DI to advise and support the Portuguese authorities. The force also established a MIR in Leicestershire, utilising HOLMES to manage the enquiries. The Metropolitan Police Services Specialist Crime Review Group commented (June 2007), “the volume of information collected during this enquiry can be compared to a Category A murder enquiry”. The force also obtained short-term contract support from other East Midlands forces. On 14 May 2007, the force activated the MIRWEB system, which allows remote telephone call centers to be set up in other forces to direct the volume of messages received from members of the public away from the in-force MIR. Derbyshire Constabulary hosted and administered MIRWEB on behalf of the force; up to its closure in June 2007 a total of 3,577 calls had been received. The investigation remains active.
• The ACC (crime) has performed the role of officer in overall command (OIOC) for Operation Task (the disappearance of Madeleine McCann) (…)

Leicestershire Constabulary – HMIC Inspection Report (September 2008)

• The force has taken the primary lead in supporting and co-coordinating the British Government’s police response to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine McCann (whose family live in Rothley, Leicestershire) from a holiday apartment in Portugal on 3 May 2007. It has committed significant resources and has established an incident room to manage its contribution to the investigation. It has also deployed a number of staff to perform various roles in Portugal. This ongoing enquiry will continue to be a demand on the force until the investigation is resolved.

Northamptonshire Police – HMIC Inspection Report (July 2008)

• Although there are no formal mutual aid agreements, successful mutual aid deployments of staff from East Midlands regional forces to deal with extraordinary demand was tested during 2007, when the force supplied HOLMES and MIRWEB staff to assist Leicestershire Constabulary in the Madeleine McCann enquiry. Specialist functions, such as test purchase and undercover operations are provided through the EMSOU and therefore the region’s forces can direct many resources into one or several forces for specific resource-intensive operations. The force has called on the SOCA for specialist resources in tackling kidnap and extortion enquiries.
• A dedicated HOLMES team (a manager, three supervisors, eight indexers and clerical support) provides all the force HOLMES staffing requirements. Varying levels of indexing are used, depending on the nature of the enquiry, including minimal indexing. There are HOLMES suites in the five major incident rooms (MIRs). Collaborative arrangements to respond to extraordinary demand have recently been successfully tested by Leicestershire Constabulary during the Madeleine McCann enquiry.
• Casualty bureau call-taking facilities are available in-force, operating on CASWEB through the training department, with 60 trained call-takers available for deployment. The capacity to link the call-taking facility to an MIR (via MIRWEB) is available, using the HOLMES team to set up a messaging unit. Collaborative arrangements for activating this facility during a large-scale enquiry have recently been successfully tested during the Madeleine McCann enquiry by Leicestershire Constabulary.
• The EMRICC has been activated on four occasions, for example the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from Portugal May 2007 (…)

viv said...

Di, I am sure in the early stages we all had doubts about whether or not they were actually guilty, but that certainty they were built incrementally. What you mention below was a really decisive moment for me, I think one of those occasions when you just have to say, I cannot possibly even consider giving you the benefit of the doubt any longer. That was a downright wicked thing to do.

"The only people who brought harm to Maddie, if she was abducted, were her own parents by mentioning her eye defect and releasing photos to every media outlet available against police advice."

Di said...

Hi Viv

Thanks for the above information.

I particularly like..

This ongoing enquiry will continue to be a damand on the force until the investigation is resolved.

Resolved being the operative word!
Let's hope this is still the case.

Di said...


I have noticed TB keeps responding to your posts with 468, sorry to be a bit thick, what does this mean? E-mail if you don't want to say.

viv said...

hiya Di

I think the post clearly references what we have been told in FOI letters the investigation will continue until it is resolved.

I honestly do not know why
TB has answered my posts with that number, it does seem very peculiar!


hope4truth said...


Hello hope you are well...

I agree if a friend refused to go back for my child I would assume they are guilty and would want to knock thier head off for putting my child in more harm by not doing everything they could to help her.

Then in this situation no one seemed to want to answer questions and they did all they could to take the investigation out of PDL...


viv said...

Hiya Hope

I think we will see some more desperate and defensive action soon and it will be nice to just sit back and watch Gerry McCann flounder.


hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

All I want is some fair reporting if they are serious and their child is missing due to stranger abduction then their actions have put her in even worse danger.

As for the reward there is not a reason in the world not to advertise it if she is really missing even the most revolting scum would turn in their best friend for cash...

Poor child has made her parents and the newspapers a hell of a lot of money and seems to have been forgoten by everyone who has made a profit.


viv said...

Hiya Hope

It is sad that Madeleine has just been used as a very marketable commodity not just by her own parents (although those activies got severely curtailed) but also by the British Media. It clearly cannot be said that their reporting did anything to help little Madeleine, just their profits. Panorama was not a particularly serious piece of journalism either, was it? But there again, I do accept they were limited in what they could say on the programme given the McCanns are suspects. I think that is what frustrates people, the press are not just up against the threat of libel actions but the accusation that as in the Lawrence case and many others their reporting has been so prejudicial to the rights of the accused, it has prevented any fair trail from taking place. So our press want to avoid that allegation and in the process are perceived as being anti Madeleine and Pro Kate and Gerry. Personally I just take it with a pinch of salt because i know that journalists know what they know, but they are not allowed to print it. Not until after any trial has taken place.


viv said...

Tony Bennett demands I answer his posts and then when I do, in full, just as likes them, completely ignores it, but I think this raises the important legal issues about a fair trial and how careful the media need to be.

Would you accept Tony that once all the evidence has been thoroughly aired in the public domain the CPS will decide in many cases that a fair trial is no longer possible? This is based on our jury system and the fact that judges take the paternalistic view that jury members, unlike judges, may be influenced by what they have already heard and no longer be able to impartially weigh the evidence against the accused?

REPLY: In exceptional cases, yes. In the Madeleine McCann case, there have been mountains of the most sensational publicity about the case, in Portugal, in the U.K. and in other countries. My book has received virtually no coverage in the mainstream media apart from a small clip on BBC TV East Midlands and an article in the Leicester Mercury. Given all the other publicity - and bearing in mind that the McCanns themselves generated the media firestorm in the first place - I hardly think that a 30-second clip on BBC East Midlands and an article in the Leicester Mercury are going to be adduced in support of a plea that the McCanns could not get a fair trial. Do you?

Viv: It is not for lack of trying to revitalise the media furore against theMcCanns on your part is it Tony? On your own admission you have sent your booklet not just to the McCanns and their lawyers but to all mainstream media outlets and MPs. It is fortunate that they just choose to ignore you. Anthony Scrivener QC states in relation to the Lawrence case and with respect I think he knows the subject a lot better than you:

One factor that the DPP and the court must take into account is whether a fair trial can now be held. There can be no fairness in a media trial. The newspaper can put forward a case in headlines which will attract the attention of millions and the accused has no real chance of challenging it.
As in the present instance having published the accusation in glaring headlines the newspaper will boldly invite the accused to sue for defamation. This invitation is a farce because everybody knows an ordinary person does not have sufficient funds to bring defamation proceedings. The media are free to wage a one-sided war against any accused they choose.
The time may have come where the interests of justice demand that there can be no fair trial in the teeth of such extravagant publicity. There is good reason for the Lawrence family to be concerned at this outbreak of publicity, knowing what the consequences could be. The Attorney General must protect the fairness of the trial procedure or we shall be confronted with a new phenomenon, an acquittal by the media where the adverse publicity is held to make a fair trial impossible.

In light of that and the publicity you have given the Lubbock case, most notably writing a book about it, no matter what evidence came to light there could no longer be a fair trial could there? You have stopped the CPS from ever being able to bring it on, haven't you?

REPLY: I am very sorry to be blunt, viv, but this really is complete and utter rubbish. Once again, before I ever touched the Lubbock case, there were mountains of publicity about the case. There was certainly more when I tried to prosecute Michael Barrymore for alleged drugs offences in January 2006. Now, just think, following the publicity about the private prosecution and after I submitted an 80-page dossier to Essex Police reviewing the police file and other material, Essex Police, in sequence...

...opened a 'cold case review' (August 2006)

...began a formal re-investigation of the case (November 2006)

...opened up 15 separate new lines of enquiry (Decemebr 2006), and

...arrested Michael Barrymore, Jonathan Kenney and Justin Merritt on suspicion of murder (June 2007).

Obviously, viv, if you give this a moment's thought, the police and the CPS (who would have to have been consulted before the arrests, did not say to themselves: 'Oh dear! There's been so much publicity about this case we can't investigate Stuart Lubbock's death any more'.

Did they?

Moreover, if you are up to speed with the case, you will be aware that this continues to be a 'live' investigation. It wouldn't be a 'live' investigation if you were right.

Would it?

Viv: In the Lubbock case the CPS state and again, with respect I think they know the subject better than you.
..we must be able to say that Mr Lubbock died as result of the actions of a named person or persons, as shown in the medical explanation for his death.

This is the identical issue in the McCann case that you cannot seem to grasp. There is insufficient evidence for any successful prosecution…
In the Madeleine case, there is not even any evidence at all of death, is there? I am afraid I have to say that IMO you just engage yourself in serious cases like this but clearly have no training in, or basic understanding of the complexities of criminal law and evidence.

CPS advises no charges following re-investigation into death of Stuart Lubbock
10 September 2007
Essex Crown Prosecution Service has advised Essex Police that no one should be charged with any criminal offences following a re-investigation into the death of Stuart Lubbock, who was found dead at the entertainer Michael Barrymore's home in 2001.
Chris McCann, complex casework lawyer with Essex CPS said: "Following Essex Police's re-investigation into Mr Lubbock's death, three men were arrested and questioned: Michael Barrymore, Justin Merritt and Jonathan Kenny, who were all released on police bail.
"I received a much enlarged file with some new evidence in July 2007. I considered all the evidence and asked Essex Police for further evidence which has now been received."
"There is still no answer in either the scientific or medical evidence how or by whose hand Mr Lubbock died. If we are ever to consider a prosecution, we must be able to say that Mr Lubbock died as result of the actions of a named person or persons, as shown in the medical explanation for his death.
"I have also considered the new evidence which has been presented, whether it alone could lead to any charges, and the likely response to it by the defence. I am not satisfied that the prosecution can overcome the objections that are likely to be raised and so I have decided that there is insufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction against the three individuals.
"I appreciate that this will be a great disappointment to the family of Mr Lubbock and I have arranged to meet them to explain the reasons for my decision to them."
Mr McCann advised previously on this case when a file was received in 2002. He said: "My decision at that time was there was no evidence to charge any person either for the death of Mr Lubbock or for the injuries he received.
"An inquest in 2002 into Mr Lubbock's death recorded an open verdict and the cause of his death, which has been considered by a number of experts, is "unascertained".
"There is no forensic evidence in this case that connects any person or object to any potential defendant and, more importantly, to Mr Lubbock."

Does that go some way towards explaining the bitter dislike Mr Lubbock senior now has of you? Because he looked up to you as a lawyer who knew what he was doing and he genuinely believed for a period of time, that you were actually helping him to get justice? Now he knows he was seriously misled and he will never get justice for the death of his son?

REPLY: Terry Lubbock always knew that although I was a qualified lawyer, I was non-practising. So did everyone else involved with the case with whom I was in contact - as I can very easily prove - the police, the Coroner, Terry's ex-wife, members of The Lubbock Trust, the Independent Police Complaints Commission, the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority, the medical experts I wrote to etc.

The I.P.C.C. investigation (a top-level investigation of the same order as the Jean Charles de Menezes case) that reported recently was begun solely as a result of my original submission and dossier that I provided to them, detailing dozens of ways in which the original investigation was badly - and possibly corruptly - conducted.

Contrary to your assertion, Terry Lubbock has recently been reported in the local and national papers to be reasonably upbeat about the continuation of the police investigation - and over an anonymous letter he received very recently which gave hope of a new line of enquiry

Viv: Please see above and learn to face reality. You can write countless reams of so called evidence on the Madeleine case, but at the end of the day, as in Lubbock, it is not going to make the slightest bit of difference is it? As demonstrated above, you can only cause further harm to the prospects of any future prosecution.

Is it not understandable that he sees you now acting against Kate and Gerry McCann (apparently) and so automatically takes their side due to his intense dislike of you. Mr Lubbock senior is not well. No person who has been through years of agonised fighting trying to get justice as he has is going to well, are they? Do you not think you are responsible in some considerable way for that?

REPLY: To be honest, my involvement in the case gave Terry Lubbock new heart after he had been getting nowhere, something which he and his other son Kevin were kind enough to say on a great many occasions, incuding to the media. As to why he parted company from me in July 2007, as I've already said I do not want to go there as I would have to publicly criticise Terry and I do not want to do that. I'm finding it very very strange by the way that you should assert, as if you know, that Terry Lubbock is 'not well', quite apart from blaming me for that (if it were true)

Viv: Again, see above report from the CPS that demonstrates that in July 2007 they received your so called additional evidence and there was no basis upon which they could mount any prosecution. Mr Lubbock himself says he is not well and that is painfully apparent from seeing and listening to him. Just like you he becomes embroiled in a cause that is now completely hopeless, but at least he has a reason to be embroiled in it.

The Law Society view of your attempts to help clients was that you were 'well meaning, but misguided'. I would put a charitable interpretation on your conduct in the Maddie case and ask you to seriously think about what you are doing, I am sure you would not want people feeling the same emnity towards you in the Maddie case as well

REPLY: They already do - look for example at the criticisms of me in the local newspaper by those who wrote to the 'Harlow Star' when news broke of my application for a summons for child neglect - 7 critical letters in one issue (mind you, I now also get folk coming up to me in the street and asking if they can get a copy of my book). I have to take things like that public criticism in the newsaper, public allegations that my book is full of 'lies' and your repeated (some have called it obsessive) sniping at me on this forum on the chin, believing all along, with many other very good and dedicated people here, that a massive injustice has been done to Madeleine McCann - and that one day what I have said and done in this case will be vindicated

Viv: Your summons for child neglect was simply pathetic and got thrown out just like your summons against Michael Barrymore. When are you going to learn the error of your ways and stop intermeddling in things you do not have the skill or authority to deal with? You are writing increasingly strident, lengthy and aggressive posts attacking anyone who dares to challenge you. Pages and pages long in red ink, I think you ought to think again about who is “obsessive” here. Contrary to what you may think, you are not going to be “vindicated” at all, you are going to make yourself increasingly unpopular and the subject of the Contempt of Court Act 1981 should occupy your mind. Telling everyone Madeleine is dead when there is no evidence to confirm that or mount any prosecution does not make you a reasonable and law abiding person, genuinely concerned about Madeleine.

Finally as just a further reminder to you in the case of Knights, the former lover of Gillian Taylforth the trial against him collapsed and the Judge ruled

"unlawful, misleading, scandalous and malicious" reporting meant he could not get a fair hearing.

Now why don’t you just calm down and stop interfering in this case, because I want to see Justice for Madeleine, by those who have proper legal authority and understand the law.

Use your own thoughts and feelings to consider the truth, then you may avoid the lie. Sometimes we may not know the whole truth, there is no dishonour in admitting that.

Wizard said...

Interesting programme today - The Daily Politics Show BBC2.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by Sir Christopher Meyer and Roy Greenslade to discuss the top political stories of the day which includes press regulations. Daily Politics Show 02/04/09 BBC2 Available on http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00jq77m/The_Daily_Politics_02_04_2009/

Jo Coburn - Do we need a tighter rein on the media system due to the foray over the McCann case?
Roy Greenslade -Why is the PCC inadequate in regulating the press. The pcc is opaque it does lots of deals behind the scenes does deals with editors and tries to resolve things rather than adjudicated 4698 complaints last year only 45 adjudications and many of those adjudications were for relatively straightforward breaches the really complex matters are not there. The other problem is they are not proactive enough they don’t say the press is mistreating the McCann’s lets deal with that, their mistreating Robert Murat we must deal with that. They always come late to the party. They are opaque, not proactive enough and do not adjudicate enough.
Christopher Meyer – A diplomatic response to what he says - I think what he just said is a load of cobblers. It is an extremely robust system of self regulation I think any other form of regulation system in the UK would be a disaster and it has come more so after the last half decade. Opaque – we say we are respecting the wishes of the very complainants who come to us, we have doubled the number of people who come to us over the last 6 years. What they want is something that is done quickly, satisfyingly and discretely. Our primary mission is to resolve complaints between the primary complainant and the editor and almost by definition this has to be in private.
Neil – The public think its and inside the belt job.
Greenslade - Yes they do and I don’t think enough people know about the PCC.
Meyer – People like Greenslade think it’s an inside the belt way.
Neil - Why couldn’t the PCC stop some British Newspapers implying, almost claiming the McCann’s had killed their missing daughter. When there wasn’t an iota of evidence to show that was true. Quite frankly I can’t think of anything worse for parents that have lost their daughter to be accused in the tabloids of having killed her. Where was the PCC on that.
Meyer – The PCC was there all the time 48 hours after Madeleine disappeared we said to the parents through the British Embassy in Washington we were here to help, this was what we can do to help you if you so wish. We cannot be more catholic than the Pope more loyalist to the King.
Neil – But you didn’t stop it.
Meyer – We didn’t stop it because they did not want us to stop it because at that time they were very busy, and I would have done the same thing in their position, stimulating publicity to try and find their daughter. I personally met Gerry McCann in the summer to explain to him face to face, eyeball to eyeball. Gerry this is what I can do to help if you so wish.
Neil - My memory must be fading here but I remember they wanted publicity but I don’t think they wanted publicity that accused them of killing their daughter.
Greenslade – No they didn’t – I think the problem was in the nature of the discretion and things done behind closed doors – really there should have been a public statement from the PCC saying much of this was obviously speculation.
Meyer – You miss out one important key factor it is the Portuguese authorities themselves made them arguidos and that created massive complications.
Greenslade – There are 8 editors on that commission all of those editors knew what was being published in the papers was based on speculation you could have made a statement saying be warned newspapers if you go into that area you are doing absolutely the wrong thing.
Meyer – You cannot trump the wishes of the parents.

Di said...

Hi All


I think I have just had a wake up moment as regards 468.

Hi Hope

I am well thanks, in Wales at the moment enjoying the sunshine as I hope you are as well.

The one thing I cannot understand is the meeting of all the tapas in the hotel. This was obviously to get stories and timelines straight.

The media again did not pick up on any of this other than to say, they met for the first time since returning home etc.,

My concerns are as follows:-

The British Ambassador treating K & G with kid gloves.

Gerry being given a police manual.

A PJ mole giving the McCanns information about what to expect, so they were able to prepare.

The PJ not confiscating items of clothing immediately.

The fridge.

I remember reading Gerry's blog. He said he had spent his day purchasing a new fridge and taking the broken one to the tip. I remember saying to my husband, why would anyone who was renting an apt replace the fridge. It would be down to MW to sort this out and replace/remove the fridge accordingly.


As a mother I could never have washed Cuddlecat no matter how dirty it became.

If that was the last toy my child had touched it would be so precious to me. If the Police asked me to hand over the toy I would be absolutely heartbroken and would resist as much as possible.

Wash it several times no NEVER.

The longer this goes on the more sad imo it becomes. Surely K & G want some closure.

Di said...

What I meant to say regarding the tapas meeting in the hotel was, as arguidos I cannot believe K & G were allowed to meet up with other witnesses to get their stories right. Why was this not questioned?

viv said...


If you want to actually listen to it.
From 15.31, some of it will make your stomach churn. Meyer was cut short at the end, I do not think he is a Pro McCann!

Di, me too, it would seem he counts my posts. I did not realise the meter was running. Does he get chance to have a life??

viv said...

Wiz, thanks for that transcript. Of course Gerry wanted all the press coverage including they killed her. How else would he have got half a million in damages!

Neal was very quick to jump in and stop Meyer, I would like to have a chat with him. Whilst Greenslade seemed to be Pro-McCann and of course Neal raving Pro-McCann. The one who actually met Gerry and dealt with him seems to have formed a different view. A bit like that kind of fascinated look of consternation on the face of the very lovely Jeremy Paxman.