27 Jul 2009

Letter to the Attorney General regarding investigation details GERRY FOR CHANCELLOR!!

Found this on 3As and rolling on the floor laughing the proverbial off! Love the paypal button it could be a new way of paying our taxes to Saint Gerry and how he looks so erm, short arsed. I mean he may even go Tory, given they are likely to get in and he was so keen on the rather repulsive and now disgraced MuckMillan Scott.AND MORE SERIOUSLY Letter to the Attorney General regarding investigation translated from PJ file by BY ALBYM/PAMALAM (there is a bit more not reproduced here on Pamalam's page. )

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

This is damning against Kate and Gerry in failing to adequately protect their children and effectively blames the T7 for failing to allow the McCanns to clear themselves of any possible involvement by failing to attend the reconstruction. One can hazard a guess why the McCanns did not want them to do that!

It confirms there was overall a lack of evidence as to precisely what crime had been committed from a selection of possibilities to enable any accusations to be made against them, but concludes it is more likely Madeleine died. xx

I am sure that as educated and sensible people, the McCanns are simply heartbroken that they allowed themselves and numerous others to completely compromise, well I mean utterly trash, the crime scene preventing any forensic traces of Madeleine's, ahem, abduction being recovered from the scene. What a terrible thing to have to live with eh? And then they went and signed Madeleine's death warrant by advertising her eye defect against police advice. As Gerry said, it was a very good marketing ploy. I suppose one has to get one's priorities in order. Perfectly understandable behaviour.

I was watching an American crime programme earlier. Guilty parents apparently hold hands all the time to protect each other. Innocent parents who lost their child find the grief of that drives them apart. So it was good to see Kate still hanging on tightly to Gerry recently on Oprah. I am sure she must have caused Oprah to shed real tears at her obvious distress. Maybe Oprah will dip into her reported billions and top the Fund up for them? What do you think the chances are of that? Well Kate and Gerry will be rushing to tell us all about it, won't they?

========

From the items that comprise the case file this first conclusion stands out:When the GNR officers arrived at the place several people had already touched the window and entered the bedroom of Madeleine and her siblings and, later, when the PJ arrived at the apartment to recover trace evidence, the place was already laid open to the public and contaminated by the entrance of all those people and by the fact of all [everything] having been touched, consequently rendering impractical, due to this, the collection of items important to the investigation.

In the drama of the moment, no-one – parents, friends, management and staff of the resort – had the coldness [objectivity] and the lucidity [clear-mindedness] to preserve the crime scene, impeding through that laying open to the public and contamination of the trace evidence that was there, when it is common knowledge that any person should preserve the scenes of a crime – not least in terms of the law Article 171(2) of the CPP – thereby avoiding erasure or alteration of trace evidence, by which action [the impeding] the collected evidence would have already lost much of its evidential value. Given the scarcity of probative items recovered in that first phase, such as the unique fingerprints recovered with the necessary number of points to make a positive identification, which were found to be of the mother and a GNR officer (pages 885 and 1520), it was shown to have been impractical, due to that [failure to preserve], to recover items important to the investigation.

Only with the arrival of the PJ, about 00h10, in response to a request for them, did conditions suitable for the collection of trace evidence and preservation of the location commence.Resulta também dos autos que, não obstante o Infantário do Empreendimento "Ocean Club"

It follows also from the papers, notwithstanding the complementary “dining out service” provided by the Ocean Club nursery staff from 19h30 to 23h30 and, for additional cost, the babysitting service for a defined time[22], the group of friends with children, while dining, opted to check their own children by themselves; initially each couple alternated among themselves to check their own children and after some days they were asking one of the persons who stood up to listen for any noise at their apartment, as referred to by JT in her statement of 10-5-2007[23], with the exception of DP and FP who possessed a communications system to monitor their children LP and SP.[22] Inquiry paper pages 221 and 226[23] Inquiry paper pages 922/923

It is extracted [comes forth] from the papers that the McCanns and their friends made visits to see that all was well with their children, as occurred according to what was declared by the members of this group and derived also from the deposition of JTRS, a Tapas waiter[24], who stated “I understood, because it was clear, that some of the group members went regularly to the outside of the restaurant to do something, which little by little it became my understanding that it was <> the children. Nevertheless, I was always convinced that those children were in a space [room] owned by the Luz Ocean Club ...”[24] Inquiry papers page 236

Moreover, it also flowed [came] from the papers that this periodic vigilance, referred to above, not [??] in the papers, which leave [fail] to explain why, on that night the procedures had been altered in the sense that the times of the visits were shorter.

In effect, this group of friends enjoyed a short holiday, totally relaxed and, while dining and having live entertainment[25], there were, during that dinner period, few concerns about anything that could happen to their children.That such was so, it is Kate who says that in the morning of Thursday, 3 May, Madeleine questioned her about the reason she [Kate] had not gone to her [Madeleine's] bedroom when the twins had cried [26], the same [story] also being told by Gerald.[25] The witness NAJOUA CHEKAYA (page 798) refers that she was asked by the OC to host a quiz game twice a week (Tuesday and Sunday) at the Tapas restaurant.[26] Inquiry papers page 59


.Also Pamela Fenn, who lives on the 1st floor of the residential block, above the apartment that was occupied by the McCann family, clarified that on 1 May 2007, two days before the disappearance, about 22h30, heard a child crying, that by the sound could have been Madeleine and that the crying went on for an hour and fifteen minutes, until the parents arrived, about 23h45.

It is noted that the parents were not persistently worried about the children in that they did not make their check as they later declared, before they neglected, although not reckless[ly] nor grossly, the duty to protect those same children.

If such duty to protect had been observed, in the hypothesis of it having been an abduction, as insistently referred to and continues to be referred to and it is possible that it had happened, its occurrence could have been possibly impracticable [infeasible].

It adds further that, when Kate, after having found that the window and the external blinds were open and Madeleine had disappeared, made her way to the Tapas restaurant to ask for help, giving to understand that it had been an abduction, it is incomprehensible or only comprehensible due to a state of panic, that she had newly abandoned, this time only the twins, whilst the Tapas was sufficiently close [for her] to scream for help – MO places weight on it being so when referring [27] that from the restaurant table there was enough visibility, though tenuous considering the distance to the apartments and that the vision was prejudiced by a transparent tarpaulin that covered the area in which the table was located.[27] Inquiry papers page 914


Finally, without plausible explanation there remains the fact that, notwithstanding all the confusion and all the noise, the twins had continued to sleep, as referred to by the GNR officer, JMBR, member of the patrol that first arrived at the apartment “the children never woke up, lying on their stomachs, not having moved during the search and after it”[28]. However, a team from the LPC, on 4-5-2007, failed to trace the existence of any substance that could have been administered to the disappeared [child] to put her into a state of unconsciousness and [or] the presence of traces of blood.[28] Inquiry papers page

It follows also, conversely, that none of the parents were in the apartment when Madeleine disappeared and that their behaviour up to the moment of the disappearance was perfectly normal, not having manifested [displayed] any type of concern or other similar sentiment, contrary to what happened after that moment in that it [their behaviour] was well known to have turned into panic.

. If is an incontrovertible fact that Madeleine disappeared from apartment 5A of the Ocean Club, it is not the same with [the same cannot be said for] the manner or the circumstances in which it occurred – notwithstanding the large volume of work done to that purpose – the fan [spread/array] of crimes indicated and referred to throughout the Inquiry keeping themselves [remaining] untouchable.

It appears evident to us and because the official papers have sufficient items for such, from this fan the crime of exposure and abandonment, as per Article 138 of the Penal Code, can be eliminated.

This legal type of crime only occurs when filled with intent, it having to include the creation of danger to the life of the victim, as well as the absence of capacity to defend oneself on the part of the victim. Now, in the case of the [these] papers and in the face of the items recovered it is manifest [clear] that neither of the arguidos GM or KH acted with [such] intent. The parents could not foresee that in the village [resort] in which they had chosen to spend their holidays they could place the life of any of their children in danger, nor was such [foresight] expected of them: it [the holiday] was in a peaceful place, where the majority of the residents are foreign citizens of the same nationality [as the parents] and without any known history of criminality of this kind.

The parents did not come [close] even to describe [show] the realisation of the fact [how it was done], they confirmed that everything had gone well, as had already happened on previous nights, not setting out, nor was this expected of them, the possibility of the occurrence of an abduction of any of the children in bed in their respective apartments.

To reinforce what was said it is still the fact of [that] although they left the girl alone with her siblings in the apartment for more or less dilated [extended] periods, it is certain that in every case they [the various parents] checked them [their children]. Without any pretension or compensatory effect [counterbalance/extenuation], we should also recognise that the parents are already paying a heavy penalty – the disappearance of Madeleine – due to the carelessness [negligence] in the vigilance and protection of the children.

The above paragraph does not make complete sense to me, so – until a Portuguese speaker can translate it correctly - I will give an interpretation of what I think it is saying, i.e. that the other identified crimes cannot apply or carry legal weight and, while there is a high probability of there having been a homicide that charge cannot be supported by the sparse evidence contained in the case file.

The non-involvement of the arguido parents of Madeleine in any penally relevant activity appears to result from the objective circumstances of them not having been in the apartment at the time of her disappearance, their behaviour having been normal [both] before this disappearance and afterwards, as amply shown in the witness statements, phone communication analyses and also the work of the experts, principally from the FSS and INML reports.

To this is added that, in reality, none of the indications used to make them arguidos were later strengthened or confirmed. But, we see: the information in the early press alert, in disregard of the police, was not proven, the laboratory ratification of the traces indicated by the dogs was not confirmed and the initial indications of the above [FSS] e-mail, better clarified afterwards, came to reveal themselves as [proved] innocuous.

Although, by hypothesis, it is admitted that GM and KH could have been responsible for the death of the child, it always remains to be explained how, where, when, by what means, with whose help and where did they liberate [get rid of] the body in the short space of time they had at their disposal. It adds that their daily routine up to 3 May confined itself to the strict limits of the Ocean Club resort and to the beach adjacent to it, not knowing the surrounding area and, outside of the English friends with whom they 'summered' [spent the summer with] there, they had no known friends or contacts in Portugal

98 comments:

viv said...

I think it is wrong for the PJ to state they had no friends in PDL. What about their millionaire friend Geraghty who originated in Leicester and lives on the outskirts of PDL?

Why is he not mentioned? Is it his dosh?

Harry said...

I was thinking about what I said last time about your blog and the Justice 4 McCann place.

Having taken a look at the Justice 4 Mccann blog I can say it looks like the posts there are desperate attempts to get people to write about anything at all.

Even on the McCann forum someone said they are looking for things to say. After all this time with no news everything is being repeated repeatedly with a few rants thrown in by those who are fixated.

The posts on the Justice 4 McCann blog are just a joke and the level is plummeting from already very low to new depths.

The PJ blog is full of family problems.It is more like a therapy blog.

This blog is just dead.

The 3As is chaos.

Even Gerry McCann doesn't write his blog anymore! If he doesn't, why is anyone else blogging about his daughter? Simply as there is nothing else to say.

It is really time for the blogs and forums to shut down IMHO. Only the friendless and fixated still post. It's time they got out and experienced the real world again.

viv said...

Good post Harry and I think this blog has come to a natural conclusion. I do not have a problem with that.

Harry said...

Good for you.

That's far healthier than sending around e-mails telling people that Madeleine will be found soon and the McCanns need all the support they can get and we should all hang on and post rubbish because something is going to happen very soon!I think you know what or who I mean.

Good luck.

viv said...

Well yes Harry, the McCanns and their rather obnoxious supporters are just a silly farce. "the poster campaign", costing apparently £80,000, not that that figure can be considered accurate given it comes from the McCanns accounts.

I note on their blog that was set up purely to be abusive to the likes of me, they have not posted for quite a few weeks now. Are even they giving up? Maybe that is because the ringleaders who email demanding the continuing support are no longer getting paid? Funds running low?

My own view on all of this is that sooner or probably later, the police will arrest them, then we will certainly have something to blog about!

I also think that whenever the McCanns put spin into the public I naturally want to counter that.

But to those people who think they can personally get justice for Maddie by means of their own rather pathetic vigilante actions or those who think they can browbeat, abuse and bully people, they really do need to grow up and smell the coffee!

xx

Harry said...

I absolutely agree with your last sentence.

All blogs have been abusive at some point, especially when there has been no news about Madeleine.The McCann J4 blog is probably the most ridiculous one around right now, IMHO.

I also honestly do not believe that Rosiepops is paid for her rubbish. I think she is more a liability than a help to the McCanns.

viv said...

well it is funny you should say that Harry because I have often quipped, you would think Gerry would pay her to shut up.

In the public's mind it has associated abuse, ridiculous stories and bullying with Kate and
Gerry McCann. That will be Rosie's epitaph..I hope she is proud of herself.

Soda said...

Hi Viv

I have a wireless home again at last!!!! Dont know why it took so long???

There is not much to say in this sad case any more is there it is just a waiting game...

Not sure how long it will take but I am sure the truth will out one day and Madeleine will get the justice she deserves. Not that it will do her any good god knows what happend to the poor child but the fact her parents have behaved in such a calous and cold way towards her memory and proclaimed themselves as the vicitms convinces me they know exactly what happend to Madeline.

Just reading your comments about RP and I have often wondered if she was really on their side (put it this way if anything bad ever happends to me and I am inocent dont let her ever blog for me) she was one of the main reasons when I first started to blog I thought they were lying....

From everything we have learnt throught the interviews and other evidence being released most of what we thought had happend did...

The biggest shock was the fact grieving and anxious mother Kate did not answer a single questions if Madeleine was still alive and in danger that would make her one of the most evil and heartless woman in the world and the papers still paint her as a saint (although between the lines they dont buy it either)...

So very sad if it was an accident 7 of the people on that holiday could be getting on with their lives without this hanging over them and even Kate and Gerry could move on now (although they would be grieving no doubt) how do you get over the loss of a child (I hope I never have to find out)...

So we have nothing to say but I will keep asking... If they did neglect their children and as a result Madeleine is in the hands of hell how could they look so happy on her 4th Birthday? and if she died due to an accident how can they forgive themselves for not being there with her or what did they have to hide?

Too many children are left to rot in homes with parents not fit to look after a dog with social services stretched to the limit and not up to the job...

The McCann's legacy is leave your children alone while you go to the pub loose one and become a tacky celeb and use your child to make money. After seeing the accounts it is obvious the money was used to make them look good the pitiful amount spent searching was a shock and was obvious had been made to look as good as it could... Where did the money go to???

I hope none of the 9 adults on that holiday never have a good nights sleep again a 3 year old child is worth more than the lot of them...

xxx

viv said...

Hiya Hopey!!

Great to hear from you and so glad you got your frustrating wireless problems resolved, I can recall how annoying that can be. And life without the internet? I just wander how I ever managed before I got a computer!

I have to agree there is not much more that we can say. The McCanns themselves appear to have gone quiet now. Mind you how often have we said that in the past. Only to find they are re-plotting and re-grouping read for their next campaign.

But I just have this feeling they are down and out and desperate and that is because contrary to what many think the British Police are by no means leaving them alone. They needed money to pour in from the Oprah show to fund their defence and they did not get it. They needed Goncalo to hand over a million quid to fund their defence and they did not get it.

The McCanns either know exactly where Maddie is or they know that she is dead and perhaps in the Atlantic Ocean. There is absolutely no point in hiring yet more silly PIs. There has to be a logical reason as to why they would do that and i can only think of just one!

I believe they hope that when they get charged the public will still be on their side, protest their innocence, say it is a travesty of justice and send them loads of cash to fight the wicked British State. They know that British people will be on the jury that has to consider the case against them and would like them to realise just how, ahem, innocent they are.

I do not think it is a time for sadness it is a time for realism. To accept that they cannot get back to normal and have a prosperous life without Madeleine as they planned. That is justice. But it is very sad for the twins who have to grow up in this awful situation. There are so many cases we could cite where many years later the police finally get they breakthrough they have been working on.

Just how long can Kate McCann and Jane Tanner keep us this farce and try to convince themselves they still "have a life". I really wonder about that!

I will also continue to say like I have since the Daily Express days, no matter which way you look at this, the McCanns neglected Maddie and miserably failed her. They did not love her and care about her and no matter what happened, it is their fault.

I also agree with you that the effect of Rosie was to convince of their guilt and make me determined I was going to continue to answer back against her and Team McCann. We will never know whether she is actually part of it, but did she help them? Very clearly not. If it had not have been for her efforts on the Daily Express I would not have felt it necessary to open this blog.

So once again, Rosie, Well Done!

Great to hear from you as always darling and take care.

Love Viv xx

Wizard said...

Good Morning Viv,

Well it is quiet but then August usually is.

Will the McCanns stay quiet and disappear into the sunset - I do not think so.

They have set a programme to defend themselves at the slightest provocation and this is what they will continue to do.

The fund imo allows them to continually launder their reputation and to effectively shut up critics. As long as there is money in the kitty they will use it to protect themselves in whatever way they think necessary.

Currently they appear to be treading water with their pretendy cops and threats to sue Amaral.

Unless new allegations are made they will continue in this vein. One thing we can be certain of - at the whiff of an allegation they will come out fighting and making headlines.

In the meantime, of course, we are no nearer to finding out exactly what happened to MBM.

We can only hope there will be a break in the case as new information comes to light.

Di said...

Hi Viv and all

I have taken time out whilst it is quiet, mind you I have had so many problems with my posts disappearing there is no knowing if this will make it.

Good posts Hope and Viv. It has gone very quiet with TM but like you say Viv they could be about to surprise us once again.

What happened to Gerry saying he would be returning to Portugal frequently,as far as I am aware he has not returned since making the documentary. Have they given up trying to stop GA's book? GA has also gone very quiet, no interviews nothing.

Right from the start they have had the best defence team around them, as we have said many times before, innocent people would not even think this way, and I would not be surprised if most of the fund money has been used for this purpose.


Viv, I hold onto your thoughts that LP will get them in the end, we just have to be patient.

Wizard said...

Today’s Leicester Mercury gives us the article below.

I just have to laugh at the spin Mitchell puts on the Leicestershire police’s involvement with the McCann case.

Can’t blame him for trying to spin the facts to a positive view point though – he has got to earn his retainer. LOL

"Madeleine search has cost police £750,000
Monday, August 03, 2009, 09:30
Two years of investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has cost the police in Leicestershire almost £750,000.
Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell has paid tribute to the support the county force has given them since the youngster went missing on May 3, 2007.
He said that while Portuguese police had shelved their investigation, county police continued to work on leads and to support and protect the family.
The Policia Judiciaria – Portugal's CID – led the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance from the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.
But Leicestershire became involved as the home force of Madeleine and her parents, Kate and Gerry, who live in Rothley.
The force's accounts show that in the last financial year Leicestershire police spent £197,000 on its investigation. This is on top of the £548,000 it spent in 2007/2008.
The force has managed to recoup £525,000 from the Home Office. A claim for the remaining £220,134 is with the Government.
Mr Mitchell said: "It is a significant amount of money. We have a good, ongoing relationship with Leicestershire police and they keep Kate and Gerry informed of any movements in the case.
"But they are at the behest of the Portuguese authorities who are running the case, even though it has been technically shelved by them. Under European law, the Portuguese police must ask them to do things.
"Nevertheless, we know Leicestershire continue to maintain a presence and are still working on the case."
Leicestershire police said it could not speak about the investigation, but it is known that costs incurred relate to the setting up and running of an incident room to take calls from around the world.
Detectives flew out to assist Portuguese officers with the investigation, while family support officers from Leicestershire helped Mr and Mrs McCann through their ordeal.
British officers, led by Detective Superintendent Stuart Prior, will also still be interviewing witnesses in the UK and abroad over possible sightings of Madeleine.
Travel, accommodation, food and drink for officers and specialist equipment, for example, will also be included in this cost.
Leicestershire police's finance director Paul Dawkins said: "Every cost can be backed up by invoices and receipts. We have applied the same strict accounting standards to this investigation as we would any other.
"But we have never charged anything for officer time, these costs are real costs to the force."

viv said...

Hello Wiz and Di

What great news, even it was planted in the Leics Mercury.

Just as I keep on saying why is it that Kate and Gerry McCann are not demanding publically that LP look for Maddie to obviate the need for them hiring a couple of useless ex coppers, right on cue eh!

I have never been in any doubt there is an ongoing police investigation in UK but even so, it is nice to have it confirmed.

This money that has been spent is in addition to the normal operating costs of police working on the case. And so, particularly in the current financial year, what are those extradordinary costs that LP still need to expend on this case?

Even so it is pretty amazing that LP only spent an additional one million on this case, whereas Kate and Gerry have blew in about two million on a useless bunch of so called investigators.

Oh, and Wiz, I also like the spin Clarence thought it best to put on this. Funny really considering all these so called Pro McCann bloggers have been insisting no British Agency is investigating this case. Could that be how little they know or how little they want us to know!

Seems to me things are going to hot up again, just cannot wait!

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE AND THE TWINS!

viv said...

Not just Team McCann in general either, Gerry McCann himself recently stated there was no one looking for Maddie hence they had to. Whoops Gerry, that was another lie then.

However, sadly, I suspect it is no longer so much a question of looking for Maddie as looking for the evidence to put her parents right where they belong.

viv said...

Judges have a specific word for this: Gobbledegook, lol:

Now go and pull the other one Clarence, there's a good boy xx

But they are at the behest of the Portuguese authorities who are running the case, even though it has been technically shelved by them. Under European law, the Portuguese police must ask them to do things.
"Nevertheless, we know Leicestershire continue to maintain a presence and are still working on the case."

Wizard said...

Good Morning,

Di just picking up on what you said yesterday:

“What happened to Gerry saying he would be returning to Portugal frequently, as far as I am aware he has not returned since making the documentary? Have they given up trying to stop GA's book? GA has also gone very quiet, no interviews nothing.”

Well pointed out - GM also said if my memory serves me right, that Kate would be making visits as well.

It would appear things are not going well in their attempt to gag Amaral as despite the spin Team McCann gave for Gerry’s visit it was obviously to do with libel, slander or deformation and not of course anything to do with looking for their daughter.

I don’t know if you have seen the proposed new changes in deformation laws brought about by the farce surrounding defamation actions in England.

People come from all over the world to sue in English courts because of the ease to prove defamation and thereby to receive large payouts.

Most defendants settle out of court rather than face the exorbitant legal costs of defending their corner, even if what they said was true!

It appears unwise to fight a defamation case because of the prohibitive costs.

Better to pay up and shut up – which of course the unscrupulous pray on – whilst free speech goes down the drain.

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

It appears your faith in the Leicestershire police’s continuing investigation into this case has proved correct.

The costs clearly show an on going investigation and do not just indicate the following up of sightings of M and keeping the McCanns’ informed – something Mitchell would like us to believe.

Soda said...

Hi All

No news (or spun news) is not good news for the McCann's...

While there is very little to say and while many people still blog on the subject the public are not stupid....

Every time they do a documentry and the subject comes up at work or within the family or friends people remark on how odd they are and they are remarks made when the information given has been pro McCann...

The papers will run out of news again and as they (normaly) dont give a damn about peoples feelings or who they destroy will need to keep the money rolling in and will report the facts from this case and it could push the police into action...

Let's face it they only have to print the facts and happy pictures of the McCann's use the McCann's own quotes and blogs and people who dont follow blogs (lets face it most dont) will start to ask questions...

There was a huge outpouring of love when Madeleine went missing the problem was it was directed towards her parents and Madeleine became the icon for her parents cause...

People dont like to be ripped off and the same people who shook their buckets and tied yellow ribbons everywhere will want to know why her Parents did not want to help find her?

Kate made a very bad mistake by not answering a single question for Madeleine. I think she belived Gerry wouldent either but of course he had to cover his back.

When a Father walks out on his family people think it is wrong but accept it. When a Mother does the same thing she is viewed as strange selfish and uncaring...

A Mothers love knows no bounds as far as the masses are concerned and I think if this is ever wrapped up Gerry will spin some more and convince the world Kate is mad and bad and will do all he can to keep the twins and become the wronged man....

I also think Kate must be in hell and if she could just get the courage to tell the truth (whatever it is) life will start to get better and over the next few years could rebuild her life and live it...

It has been over two years now looking over her sholder and waiting for someone to crack that is not living that is terror.

Madeleine has gone nothing can be worse than that but by staying quiet nothing will ever get better...

Wizard said...

If you committed a crime and you think you’ve got away with it - think again.

I’ve just heard a news flash saying an arrest has been made in connection with the 2002 murder of 13 year old Milly Dowler who went missing in Surrey.

Hopefully charges will be brought and give some kind of closure to her parents and sister.

It gives me heart to think that the investigation has been ongoing during the last 7 years and justice might be dished out to her killer.

viv said...

Hiya Wiz, Di and Hope

It must be very disconcerting for the McCanns to have insisted they need these two stooges to look for Maddie and then have it publically confirmed that of course LP continue to investigate this case.

Sightings! I just do not know how Mitchell has the audacity to suggest that one. Is he really trying to tell us that he and the McCanns managed to keep quiet about yet more sightings of Maddie, whilst running after Hewlett and a murderer etc. What absolute rubbish!

Unfortunately in a number of serious cases seven years seems a typical length of time before a killer is brought to justice.

I am confident that British Police continue to do their very best for all murdered and abused little children. Bringing their abusers to justice just as soon as the CPS rule that the evidence they have gathered is sufficient to say, all systems go!


The CPS are very hard taskmasters with the police. They will take a devil's advocate approach and look at the real possibility of the defence being able to refute the evidence the police have so far. In the McCann case we can just imagine them doing precisely that. There is nothing more disastrous than putting suspects on trial with insufficient evidence and them being acquitted. Better to be patient and wait until they have a water tight case.
xx

Di said...

Hi all

I find it odd that we are reading in the papers and on Sky how much LP have spent looking for Madeleine, when has this ever happened before, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall a missing person case where a police force has published how much they are spending. TM seem to be in turmoil and I don't think Clarence is doing them any favours with his quotes either Viv.

Hope

re Kate not answering the questions. I think this was planned previously by Gerry who knew Kate was not holding it together. I think Gerry knew there would be too many inconsistancies if Kate answered.

Wizard

Let's hope charges for TM are brought sooner rather than later.

viv said...

Thinking this through if anything, as ever, Clarence has once again made the situation worse for the McCanns by speaking out and confirming this ongoing investigation.

I say this because we are talking her about the LP accounts for the period April 08 to April 09. We know that there would have been air fares etc in that period. Stu Prior went over with others to persuade the prosecutors not to release certain documents. We know that during the currency of those accounts there was quite obviousl still involvement by LP. We saw that they were to hold a meeting in September 08 to consider their ongoing role in this case. Of course we were not told what that was to be.

So Clarence could have gently dropped it out perhaps via the blogs that this was no more than the LP involvement at that time that we already knew about in that financial accounting year.

But no, what he has done is confirm for us what I have been insisting all along. The LP have continued to work on this case and just like in the Millie case, will do until they get a result. There is not option in UK law to close such a file.


Anyway all that remains to be said, is well done Clarence!!! and thanks xxx

viv said...

Di, that is an indication of how in tune we have become over the years. We simultaneously post about Clarence has really not done the McCanns a favour here with his big mouth trying to prove he still has role justifying his apparent £30k per annum!

Great to actually be posting at the same time as you, given how quiet it is on here these days, that is no mean feat!

Kate not answering the questions. British research confirms that suspects rarely exercise their right to remain silent and that about 98 per cent of those who do, are ultimately convicted. In short, an innocent person has no reason to refuse to answer police questions. Human nature being what it is, people will indignantly argue with the police if they are actually being accused of something they did not do.

I think the most pertinent question Kate refused to answer was, and were you considering handing over custody of Madeleine to a relative. This demonstrates the police had uncovered evidence that their was already a prior intention on the McCanns part to consider getting rid of Madeleine and is most terribly damning. But of course an innocent mom would have just hit the roof at such a question.

I think the reason Gerry chose to answer the questions is because he considered he is such a smart arse. The look on his face when he came out told us he realised he is not. When you look at his answers he is not answering he is avoiding the question saying he does not know etc. That is the polite way of not answering!



xx

viv said...

Oh I just forgot to mention the research on people choosing to exercise their right to silence also found that suspects only choose to do this when faced with a very serious charge.

Adverse inferences of guilt can be drawn in UK law by failing to answer or explain evidence when given the chance to do so. Hence it is a pretty drastic decision to just decide not to answer. It has to be a situation where you are rumbled in a very serious crime that could put you away for years and there is just no explanation that you can give for what the polie are hitting you with!

Kate of course got her supporters to drop out the death scent on her clothing was explained by all the cadavers she worked with as a locum GP. Not that she wanted to say that herself of course and what a totally credible explanation as to why Eddie was getting so excited, and even I agree he most certainly was, subject to me as usual pointing out that could just as well have been the odour of blood. It is one of those things that is a powerful inference a thing to drive police officers on, feeling they are going in the right direction, but not evidence that would convict them.

viv said...

Di

I forgot to answer what you said about it has never happened before, getting details of what has been spent on a missing person search.

I think that is explained by the fact that Maddie went missing in Portugal and so LP were put to additional expenses in having to go and operate in that area. It is those additional expenses the Home Office have been refunding. The actual hours /wages of the officers concerned are not refunded because they were just engaged doing their job, but their hotel bills, flight etc are something extra that it is not reasonable to expect LP to be able to fund out of their ordinary budget.

viv said...

It is certainly part of the remit of Leicester Police to investigate a possible homicide of their child by a Leicester couple. A point I have repeatedly been banging on about. Possible other SERIOUS offences too like sexual abuse/kidnap. In short what did this Leicester couple do with their little girl whilst thinking they were out of the jurisdiction of British Police in Portugal, which, had their story been believed of some stranger abducting Madeleine, they would have been. In those particular circumstances it would have been the responsibility of Pt Police to properly investigate that, but this case was different, enter British Agencies!

That, I believe, was the whole thinking behind the conduct of Gerry McCann. He genuinely believed he would only have the Pt Police to contend with, that is where he really came a cropper and he is still is!

Wizard said...

Hi All,

Fiona Payne is a GP. I’m not sure if she is full time or part-time whichever it is she apparently was not called upon to issue death certificates for any of her patients – is this believable – well perhaps.

If we accept Kate McCann's reason for the scent of a corpse being present in apartment 5A would it also not be present in FP’s apartment as she was engaged in the same branch of medicine as KM.

Kate, I believe, did visit Payne’s apartment which was next door, why did she not transfer the scent there?

Leicester police must have checked out KM’s explanation i.e. visiting 6 dead patients prior to leaving for her holiday. If this was NOT true the Leicestershire police would have passed on the info to their Portuguese counterparts but both chose to hold back this incriminating piece of information.

I know I have mentioned this before but I believe this could be the reason why the PJ are so certain Madeleine died in apartment 5A and her death was concealed by the parents.

Soda said...

Hello ALL

I wonder if Clarance is really on the McCann's side??

For that matter I wonder if the new pretendy detectives are Pro McCann???

What better way to find out the truth than by working for them???

Who can they trust? Clarance will make a fortune from a book sale and as he is such a good spin Dr even if he was only in it for the money I am sure he could turn himself into Madeleines Hero the man who got the truth if he finds he is not making as much as he thinks he is worth....

Di said...

Hi all

Viv

Thanks for the explanation regarding LP expenses. However, what I meant was, have we ever seen a police force printing their expenses in the media? or is it all Clarry spin and did the LP have nothing to do with this article. My fault for not explaining myself :o(

I know Hope has always said, an innocent Mother who had just lost their child would answer every question put to them no matter how long it took. Not Kate though for some reason known best to her.

Hope

Pretendy cops not pro McCann, now wouldn't that be a result.

Di said...

Wizard

Good point about Fiona also being a GP whether full are part-time I am not sure.

The T9 spent everyday together at some point, so yes, if Kate was carrying cadavar scent from her deceased patients surely she would have passed it on. I would imagine it would be on the twins clothes as well as Gerry's clothes, sofas chairs, beds as well.

We know from the files, that the PJ went into all their friends apartments and found nothing.

As a part-time Dr, I would be completely shocked if Kate had signed so many death certificates just prior to her holiday, if she did, alarm bells should be ringing imo.

Di said...

I mean Kate as a part-time Dr not myself lol.

Soda said...

Dr Di LOL I like that xxx

Di said...

Hi Hope

I see you have not lost your sense of humour :o)

Wizard said...

Good Morning All,

Well…they couldn’t stay quiet for long. A man or perhaps a women, depending which newspaper you read, is sought as the pretendy cops find a new lead.

How appropriate that evidence is being sought in Australia – can’t get any further away from the scene of the crime can you?

If I didn't know better I would think the facts given in the Mail article below was a joke!

“Now the Madeleine hunt moves Down Under By VANESSA ALLEN – Daily Mail
Last updated at 10:43 PM on 05th August 2009

Madeleine McCann went missing on holiday in Praia da Luz in May 2007
The search for Madeleine McCann last night switched to Australia as detectives began hunting for a new suspect.

A witness has given Kate and Gerry McCann's private detectives fresh information about an Australian man they believe could be linked to Madeleine's disappearance.

The investigators believe the man is of 'potential significance' to their hunt and will today make a dramatic public appeal for help to find him.
They are expected to release images of the man and information about his possible link to the two-year search for Madeleine.

Dave Edgar, one of two retired detectives hired by the McCanns to co-ordinate the hunt, is to due make the appeal at a press conference in London.

McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: 'We want the public's help to identify someone. We are making an appeal based on new information.' He refused to give further details.

Madeleine vanished from her family's rented holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007, while her parents dined with friends at a nearby restaurant.

She has not been seen since, despite a series of appeals from her parents, who have vowed never to give up the search.

Madeleine's parents Gerry and Kate have maintained their efforts to trace their daughter

In June Mr Edgar, flew to Germany after convicted paedophile Raymond Hewlett was linked to the case.

Hewlett, 64, was in Portugal when Madeleine vanished but refused to speak to Mr Edgar or his colleague Arthur Cowley about the disappearance.

He has denied he was involved in Madeleine's suspected abduction but refused to provide an alibi or tell the detectives where he was when she vanished.

The McCanns, of Rothley, Leicestershire, have said they will believe Madeleine is alive and can be found unless they are shown clear evidence to the contrary. Portuguese police closed their investigation a year ago.”

viv said...

Hiya all!

What a nice surprise, some posts!

Wiz, I was looking at your 18.13 post on 4/8.

Firstly Fiona Payne is not a GP, she is an anaesthetist, Kate was also and that is how they met and became so friendly. I am assuming Fiona would not be around many dead people in that role!

Secondly, I think Kate has been careful NOT to offer that explanation for possible death scent herself. This explanation was put out apparently by her friends or legal advisers as a possible explanation.

viv said...

Dr Di Lol!

Great to have an esteemed expert on board :-))

I think the Leicester newspaper were probably looking at the expenses of their local police force and would have asked Clarence for a response to the fact that there were also additional expenses being claimed in the next financial year also. But think we should remember that we know there were costs of them being in Portugal in the period between April 2008 and end Mar 2009.

It is Clarence's forced explanation that I think is so earth shattering and completely contradicts what the McCanns had themselves been so very recently saying. That no police force was looking for Madeleine and therefore they have to do so themselves. Then we get the embarrassed admission that actually, as I knew anyway, LP are still investigating this case.

If the Leicester paper had asked Clarence for a response and he had refused to comment as to the ongoing investigation they would have printed that refusal and presumably that would have been considered even more damning for Team McCann!

viv said...

If death scent gets so easily transferred the question has to be asked, why was it apparently only found in the areas and on the items that it was?

I think it is more likely the scent from the corpse itself can be transferred. So, if that was death scent on Kate's clothing, she would have been in direct contact with Maddie's body.

But in terms of evidence itself, we have to remember that Grime himself points out that Eddie will also alert to old human blood and that makes the findings of the dogs far less helpful. They are great when looking for a corpse and finding actual forensic evidence of that, this did not happen. They are also great for finding blood on a murder weapon, Keela has done this which directly led to a knife killer being arrested and convicted.


I am afraid it brings us back to Kate's trousers could have smelt of blood for a normal feminine reason.

In short whilst the alerts of the dogs are indicative, they are not evidence.

viv said...

But, the inference you can draw from the alerts of the dogs becomes a lot stronger when you consider that Kate failed to answer police questions about that. As I have mentioned before if a suspect fails to offer an explanation for evidence found when given the opportunity to do so, adverse inferences of guilt can be drawn at trial.


I am afraid I think it is likely that as medical experts Kate and Gerry relied on the fact of a very comprehensive clean up and knew the dog alerts would not be corroborated by forensic evidence. That there was a risk of that is evidenced by the crass remark of Clarence, any evidence found can be innocently explained.

This is why I take the stance that I do, there is a good chance that Maddie died in there, but there is also a good chance they were involved in getting rid of her alive. We do not know which angle British police are taking but my gut instincts tell me they favour the latter one. But what is clear and obvious is, Kate and Gerry know precisely what happened to little Maddie.

viv said...

Oh my goodness, before I even read the rest of the Daily Mail article by that silly Vanessa, I have to say this just completely blows any credibility Edgar had left. He so recently confidently and positively asserted the disappearance of Madeleine would be resolved in PDL, he went further within 500 metres of the apt, almost like he had the audacity to start pointing the finger at Murat again, but now, oh I just cannot believe this, Australia. Funny how Rosie has some nice little posters from that very far flung neck of the woods:-))

The search for Madeleine McCann last night switched to Australia as detectives began hunting for a new suspect.


WHAT A FKN JOKE, sorry for the language but this is just ridiculous. And how much is that going to cost the Find Maddie Fiddle, you would have thought with the expense of ahem, apparently suing Goncalo, the well would have dried up! Did they get some brown envelope jobs rolling in from the States after all? Or did their backer still feel sufficiently implicated in all of this to dig deep to fund a continuing complete and utter farce??

viv said...

Well I see Clarence has been relieved of the job of holding up the latest McCann fantasy suspect and told to keep his mouth shut.

If I was Kate and Gerry I would be getting pretty paranoid about him too!

Enough public ridicule for you now Clarence, you are just a non-emptity, enter silly fantasy picture holder number two, who does almost have the requisite qualities to do this, he used to be a copper, now he is a pretendy one, laugh, I dont know !

Oh to be a fly on the wall as Stu Prior sits in his office perusing the Daily Mail with a wry smile across his chops!

Di said...

Hi all

This latest sighting is a complete joke. Firstly we hear it is a man now it is a Victoria Beckham lookalike. After seeing the photofit I don't think Victoria will be a happy bunny today.

If these two, supposed witnesses, have new and credible evidence why has Clarence released another photofit? Surely Team McCann should be contacting the relevant police force asking for help, also begging the PJ to reopen the case, but no, we are asked to help and report back to them, I wonder why? Unless they know the case is going to be reopened and they can then pretend it was because of them.

Wizard said...

Dried blood old or new would not trigger a response from dogs trained to alert to the scent of a cadaver. The dogs alert to gases emanating from the body as tissues begin to decay. As we now know this can be detected by dogs’ minutes after a death has occurred.

I do not believe they would alert to blood from a menstrual cycle thereby giving a false alert of a corpse. I think it would be barking up the wrong tree (LOL) to consider that as a likely possibility.

The Portuguese public prosecution office said after the McCanns release from aguido status they had not taken into account Kate McCann’s profession when considering the alert by Eddie to the cadaver scent in the apartment.

Hmm….well it is academic as the dog alert has to be backed up with forensic evidence which isn’t available. However, I still think it is indicative and I do not swallow the visiting of 6 dead patients in week before the holiday - surely this is surpassing even Dr Shipman.

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

I read somewhere that Fiona Payne was a GP but on doing a brief check I can’t see any reference to her current status. So I take it you are right.

The fund will certainly take a bashing if the pretendy cops take a holiday in Australia erm… I mean investigation in Australia!

Wizard said...

Hi Dr Di,

You make a good point when you say:-

“Unless they know the case is going to be reopened and they can then pretend it was because of them.”

You could be right there.

Di said...

Off now but thought this was interesting.


From Mccannfiles.com

By Dr Martin Roberts
06 August 2009

ALL AT SEA

Have the McCanns made a Titanic mistake with their latest promotion? What follows is a particularly interesting exchange during the most recent press conference, involving Dave Edgar in discussion of the Marina where an unnamed Briton and an unidentified Australian are said to have conversed:

Q: "Mr Edgar, could you sail from the Algarve to this Marina?"

DE: "Could... I'm not a sailor but I'm told that, errm... six knots would take you five days."

Q: "Five days?"

DE: "Yeah... at six knots. Obviously it would depend what ship you're on or what yacht you're on how fast it would go."

Q: "Aren't there also ferries that do the main Portugal..." (indistinct)

DE: "There are ferries as well, yes. Obviously Barcelona is a very busy port."

Q: "So, Dave. Sorry. Have you... have you... have you worked out therefore that potentially Madeleine could definitely have been here (in) seventy-two hours?"

DE: "Yes."

Q: "Yes"

DE: "Could. Yes."

Q: "She could have been..."

DE: "Most definitely could have got from, from eh, from the area back to Barcelona."

Q: "How?"

DE: "By yacht. By yacht. It's entirely possible."

Indeed it is, Dave. But not inside seventy-two hours travelling at six knots. The journey takes five days at that speed you say, so at six knots you get just over half way. Ruling out the ferry, for obvious reasons, leaves us requiring an ocean-going vessel capable of cruising at around 13 knots.

There are physical constraints to travelling through water which can make exceeding an optimum speed difficult, if not dangerous, for smaller vessels; unless of course they are purpose-built ocean racers. These are not exactly small either. Toward the more leisurely end of the spectrum, ocean-going yachts, with a cruising speed of around 13 knots, are 'gin palaces', typically in the order of 160 ft. long, and can be picked up on the internet currently for around $20,000,000.

So, as Dave Edgar candidly informs us, it's entirely possible to sail, by yacht, from the Algarve to Barcelona within seventy-two hours. The BIG problem with this as an abduction hypothesis however, is the associated cost - staggeringly beyond the means of your average Mediterranean paedophile.

Even if we suspend disbelief, and attribute such deviant behaviour to a mysterious potentate with sufficient resources to fund an ocean-going lifestyle, was a seriously impressive boat recorded as entering the Marina on or immediately before the date of the Anglo-Australian encounter? If so, are we really to suppose that little Madeleine McCann from Leicester, last seen at an up-market holiday camp, was that important to the master.

Soda said...

Hello All

I think Team McCann may have cried wolf once to often...

If this woman is real have they ever concidered she may not belive a word they are saying either???

Imagine 2 years ago being a bit P*ssed speaking to a guy who was also merry then going to another table to continue an argument with your boyfriend who has been a pig all day before getting more comforting words from another of the lads on the other table...

What will they do if she comes forward and declares they must be clutching at anything to take the heat off themselves and dares to go even futher and ask if Kate is so concerned for the child she neglected for a night in a bar why wont she answer the simple questions put to her by the PJ and why is she happy for her friends to have a pact of silence while pointing the finger elsewhere.

If I was that woman that is exactly what I would be asking when the press came calling...

viv said...

Di said:
Unless they know the case is going to be reopened and they can then pretend it was because of them


Di, I reckon that was another of your very astute observations.

If you think about it from a hunted criminal's point of view, they have been trying to defend the case against them from the very outset. And that does give a lot of credibility to the indications of the dogs. If they were not bothered by them, why did the respond in the full on way that they did. I recall when Bath Theory posted on here about Zapata suddenly admitting, well actually, yes, I did kill my wife, in return for a plea deal, rather than face another murder prosecution. I personally think the American Judge did get that wrong. All relevant evidence as to guilt or innocence should be admissible. There is a rule here that judges should exclude the evidence if it is more prejudicial to the accused that probative. I am personally in favour of all relevant evidence going to the jury and letting them use their good sense but in a way I supposed I can understand the concern from a judge's point of view. But if there was a lot of other evidence that could then be put in the balance, so long as the jury did not rely on that evidence alone. And let's face it, Zapata would probably then have been convicted the first time around and not been able to plea deal his way to just a 3 year sentence. But in such a case I suppose any conviction is better than no conviction. So, to get back to the McCann case, it seems to me they are in just that situation that Zapata was in. He had made a good job of keep moving the body around to make sure it was never found. There is a similarity! But still, the police had used the dogs and believed it was him. They would not leave him alone. This put him under extreme pressure and so, in the end, rather than take the risk, he finally admitted it. When people are in this situation, they have lawyers. The lawyers keep reassuring them of the major thing in such a case, all we have to do is convince the jury there is a reasonable element of doubt. Then they just cannot convict you because they have to be certain beyond reasonable doubt. So we have to get evidence that puts that doubt in place. Ever more desperately it seems to me, and with more and more money they can manage to get the McCanns hang on to this and they just keep getting more and more useless detectives who are going to find this doubting evidence for them. They set up special hotlines, do not phone the police phone us, in confidence. The aim is to get plenty more Gran Coopers, they do not care how long after the event it was or increasinly how more ridiculous it may sound. They are desperate, they are fixated on this idea, we just need to raise an element of doubt and then we can get away with it.

No one should underestimate for one minute the terrible trauma this couple will feel, every second of every day. Particularly Kate, who does not work and does not compartmentalise like Gerry. She will just keep poring over that file, looking for anything she can order Edgar to research, he knows full well he is not on a serious investigation to find Madeleine. He is on a serious defence offensive to save them from the police and the threat of that knock on the door, the neighbours knowing, being on the television, being arrested, a hell of a trial before judge and jury, and then, lengthy prison, just causes irrational fear, disastrous behaviour. I just think this is how this can best be explained.

And finally, I do think Victoria Beckham will be pretty furious at her name and image being used in this way. She is a brash Essex girl, I can just hear her squeal after all me and Dave av dun for dem two baaaartsds! David being the nice chap he is would say oh calm down, they are in the sh!t what would you do, leave em be, and she will scream with rage once more. I think they just might be hearing from her lawyers, it would serve them right.

viv said...

Hiya Hope

You paint a very good picture of the situation of that woman, that she was perhaps, engaged in a heated argument with her boyfriend, walked away for a bit, got sympathy from other men, she is not bad looking, then went back and started again.

I have often observed couples behave exactly that way and I think you are probably right. If she exists, she will recognise herself from that description and she is going to be scathing.

I wonder why we get such detail, her jeans seemed very expensive, I mean what drunken man would notice if they were designer jeans. It is like it is almost a deliberate association to VB who clearly likes her own designer label jeans!

But the supposed detail of the actual conversation concerning Madeleine, no, we are not being told this. We would laugh even louder, if it was credible Clarence has a big enough mouth, he does not normally spare us the minutiae about this Australian sounding woman who speaks fluent Spanish. Oh my!

viv said...

Hi Wiz

The Judge in the ET proceedings commented once of me, if Mrs &(& says she has seen something written down in the four volumes of documents that we have then she always turns out to be right, so we better look for it!

I know I have seen it written down that Kate and Fiona worked together as hospital anaesthetists and that is how they met and developed a very good friendship which did not include Gerry.

Which kind of brings me on to why is it that Fiona is still a hospital anaesthetist and Kate changed to become a locum GP? That is very odd. It has nothing to do with being able to work part time hours because I am also pretty sure I read that they both did. What happened to Kate's job that she had with Fiona, was she unwell? Why was she just a locum if that is right? I know from solicitors the ones who finish up just practising as locums are usually the bottom of the pile who had employment problems of some kind or another. But I am not certain if Kate was just a locum or whether she had a proper part time job? One thing is for sure, they wer not begging her to go back! Given her open admission on TV of serious neglect and that she would not have given Maddie's anxious claims about being left to cry a second thought, had she not been abducted. That hardly makes her GP material with a statutory duty to report upon and take part in preventing child abuse.

viv said...

Wiz:Dried blood old or new would not trigger a response from dogs trained to alert to the scent of a cadaver.

You are contradicting here what Grime himself says in the rogatories; that Eddie will alert to dried but not fresh blood. That is because it is a constituent part of the material he is trained to find, part of his training involved finding old dried blood. He is the more general victim recovery dog, of course Keela specifically goes for blood alone. So Grime was putting Eddie in first to do a general reccy and then putting Keela in as he did with the car. But I confess I still cannot understand why he just allowed Eddie to alert outside the car and then only put Keela into it. It is like he knew there would be no cadaver odour to find in there, only blood.

I recall saying in one video, "well I have done the best I can". I presume that was a reference to the cleaning that had obviously taken place and the length of time that had elapsed making it very difficult to obtain good specimens after that time lapse.

Also, if you recall, the police were asking all the witnesses who were in the flat before the McCanns, and did you bleed in there, see their statements all alluding to this question. The Police were obviously wanting to know, was that Madeleine's blood the dogs alerted to or was it belonging to a previous occupier. If I recall one said he cut himself shaving. Hardly going to be in the place the blood was found behind the sofa though and this is where both dogs gave a very good indication without having to be dragged back to try again, they just went for it. So I have to say there is a good chance Maddie was injured and behind that sofa, quite possibly dead. Unfortunately the minute quantities of blood found did not match Madeleine in fact I think I read some DNA, it did not even refer to blood, off the wall, would match a European male!

Soda said...

Hi Viv

I thought the expensive jeans was a deliberate atempt to make it seem more like VB...

What do they want from this??? VB to come forward and say oh god no not a look a like female predator was it something i did???

Anywhere that is either just closing at 2am or still serving has the same situation every night of the week... Also when people are drunk and want some attention they sometimes say things to shock other people god knows what she did say (or what he thought he had heard) but what possible reason would he have to take 2 years to come forward...?

I have read somewhere they knew about this a few weeks (I think) or more ago and Madeleine is missing but they have to get the marketing sorted before they bother to run with it???

Stil no mention of the Reward...

In fact still no mention of Poor Madeleine and how she may be getting her hopes up or down just poor Gerry and Kate the couple who casued all this and dont want to help themselves (unless they think it makes them look good) which sadly the docs and Oprah did not...

xxx

viv said...

Di, thanks for that really interesting report, that in a normal yacht Edgar just had to admit it was simply impossible to reach Barcelona in only 72 hours, it would have taken five days. The only way she could have done that is on some massive gin palace.

I thought it was just a little odd they way he said BACK to Barcelona. What did he mean by that.

The PJ obviously thought removal by boat was highly likely because we can see from the files they did a huge amount of research on various craft in the area around that time. I think it is highly logical too, given Gerry was carrying her towards the beach. Yes I know everyone believes she was already dead, but I, well I am not at all sure about that.

I do think paedophilia is involved in this case. I do think it is very possible Madeleine was taken from the beach on a small fast craft and on to a larger craft perhaps some expensive yacht. I also think there must be a very good reason for Brian Kennedy to be so heavily involved in all of this he has even been prepared to go and personally see the PJ to offer them some highly implausible diversionary "sightings" etc, go and see Murat, try to go and see Smith and many other witnesses besides. The McCanns have been prepared to accept he makes the decisions about their investigators and they were happy about him sacking Mr Halligen after he had just cost half a million for his supposed six months contract. I also believe Kennedy owns a big expensive boat.

I just wonder where all of this is actually leading to?? Are the McCanns undone and looking for someone to pin the blame on?

viv said...

I hate to see this but I often have this feeling British Agencies are blitzing paedophile rings in conjunction with Spanish and Portuguese Police and they are looking for photographs of little Madeleine.

"I looked down at her and thought how beautiful she is"

I know I could well be wrong but this is just what I continue to think is going on.

viv said...

Hiya Hope

I too think they are deliberately trying to implant in people the image of VB and the comment about the expensive jeans is very pointed also the pretty small dress size. Been a good few years since I fitted into that one!

But I cannot for the life of me think why they are doing this or how they think it will help them??

Boozy men at that time of night 2 am, obviously most people are going to be pretty tanked up. That is not condusive to clearly remembering anything. The fact that it has taken him over two years to mention this, which is accepted by Team McCann is just bloody ridiculous!

viv said...

and whilst this woman is striding around at 2 am, chatting to drunken men and rowing with another, who was looking after little Maddie.

Oh, the other really stupid bit of insinuation, she then walked off towards the hospital and the more distant marina (just to see if little Maddie was OK, no doubt)

Each and every time we get one of these press releases I say to myself it just could not get any dafter, but the thing is, it does!


Barcelona, is that not where M3 hail from and where they rushed off with samples from the Damn of Arade after Correia's frogmen fished out some bits of cat or something?

Soda said...

Viv

I guess if she was out on the beer with her boyfriend she could reason it was ok to leave Madeleine home alone as she was used to it and why change the poor childs routine...

If the Government really need to bury some bad news they should insist that the press start reporting the facts from this case most of them make the McCann's look as guilty as hell...

Although I have always believed they know where Madeleine is it is their actions over the last year or so that convince me if she really had been taken they are the most evil people in the world to spin her into more danger...

see you tomorrow x

viv said...

Actually Metodo 3 have offices in Barcelona and Madrid and support budding artists, they are very interested in art collection. How nice!

http://metodo3.es/engl/com_notasprensa.htm

viv said...

Hiya Hope

I believe the Government, MPs, just like British Police will be anxious to ensure they do not offer any comments on this case at all.

I also imagine they would chuckle when reading the latest rubbish the McCanns had put in the press.

I think our press will never pick themselves back up from the low they have reduced themselves to by continuing to print this rubbish. They bemoan the demise of the great British newspaper, that is because it is just not great and given most of us have the net, why the heck would you buy the rubbish in print and help to damage the environment!

The side effects of Kate and Gerry McCann will undoubtedly go on and on in so many ways. But I still believe Kate and Gerry are destined for some corrections, god knows they need it!

Nite Nite xx

Wizard said...

Morning Viv,

Since the birth of Madeleine I’m not sure she worked at all for sometime, seemingly putting her career on the back burner whilst she followed Gerry to Holland in connection with his work.

What type of doctoring she was engaged in immediately prior to M’s birth is not clear but she had retrained after M’s birth to become a GP.

One of Gerry’s sisters commented that he was the career minded one in the partnership and Kate was not.

KM was never registered as an anaesthetist according to DX poster Dr_Val and her research showed that she was working in the anaesthetic department of a hospital on a rotational work schedule only but not employed as anaesthetist by the hospital.

No specialisation had been registered to her until her retraining as a GP. The question is - are the apparent gaps and lack of direction in her career due to illness or lack of interest.

It is interesting to note, however, that KM did not allow her medical records to be released to the pj. This suggests to me that there was something in them she wished to conceal otherwise why deny access.

Soda said...

Well it must be the VB aussie/nz spanish speaking woman who is involved in Madeleines disapearence!!!!

have you seen the DX headline???? Are you here to deliver my new daughter?

For god's sake....

By the 5th everyone in the world knew about Madeleine yet this desprate woman who had her on order asked random strangers if they had come to deliver her daughter...

This is another insult from Team McCann who cant be bothered to actually do a single thing to help in the search for Madeleine much too important to get their timeline right before calling the police and then create a pact of silence and the final insult the loving mother wont answer a single question....

This is a joke the woman they are searching for may or may not have said those words or a variation of them (boyfriend does not want any children they have been arguing all day about it and he wont budge so she asks a random stranger if he is going to give her a child) then goes back to arguing with her boyfriend no doubt telling him she has had a better offer...

From this they waste time with another embarasing press confrence (get yourself on a public speaking course Clarance you are hopeless)...

This has to be the worst they have come up with so far... How dare they waste time if she is really missing they have already played sick games with her life by their lack of cooperation and pictures of her when she was much younger which only confuse what she looked like when she went.

Talking of photos was she so unimportant on that holiday that she only had 3 taken the whole time over there??? Where are the shots in the pool and on the beach in the apartment etc????

Arrest the 9 adults from that holiday today and dont let them go until they tell you exactly what happend on that holidayand what happend on the 3rd May each of them no matter what happend to Madeleine have her blood on thier hands by refusing to help her after neglecting her (if that is what happend) how the hell do they look at themselves in the mirror each day a small lie is uncomfortable this must be like a mill stone round their necks...

Madeleine McCann is the victim of her parents and friends lack of care and god knows what else...

viv said...

Just going through
Fiona's rog, although she is only 35 at that time she is settled in a good part time career as an anaesthetist. I hve a feeling she talks about Kate later, I will come to that. Also noted the question about who booked the holiday and how she keeps umming and then rather than just saying Dave goes all around the houses, it just seems like she is not wanting to deal with that. I wonder why Kate and Gerry missed the Greece holiday the previous year? Because they were with them the year before that??


---

I work as an Anaesthetist at Leicester and Leicester Registrar.

“I’m an Anaesthetist, so I, erm, it combines a lot of different skills, we work in obstetrics, on labour ward doing epidurals, doing caesarean sections for women and we work on intensive care unit, in theatres, cover any need for, you know, resuscitation. So, yeah, it’s quite a stressful job and a busy job, erm, I enjoy it”.


1485
“And how long have you been”.


Reply
“Erm, I’ve been an Anaesthetist since about ninety-seven, erm, in Leicester”.


1485
“Yeah”.


Reply
“Yeah, and since I’ve had the children I work part-time sort of three days a week, yeah”.

who suggested the holiday”.


Reply
“Umm”.


1485
“Because I understand that it was booked by yourselves?”


Reply
“Yeah”.


1485
“What I want you to do is, how the holiday came about”.


Reply
“Umm”.


1485
“Who suggested it. Who booked it”.


Reply
“Umm”.
1485
“Who suggested it. Who booked it”.


Reply
“Umm”.

00.04.48
1485
“Go through the whole process and stop at the holiday day”.


Reply
“Okay. Erm, I think the idea had first come about really back, erm, in the previous year. Erm, I’d been on holiday with Dave, erm, and our children, with Matt and Rachael and their child, G***e, and Russ and Jane and their two children and we’d been to Greece for a week. Erm, it wasn’t a MARK WARNER, it was, erm, I can’t remember which company it was with, but it was a very small holiday, erm, environment, where you sort of had all the walled off area with a few villas and a shared pool and a restaurant, erm, and we had a great time and we’ve all got very young children and the kids had a great time. So the, the idea was sort of seeded, you know, that it would be nice to do a similar thing again. We’d also been on the year before a kind of, another group villa holiday with friends, Kate and Gerry being, erm, one of that group. So we just found with young children it was a really nice way of, of having a holiday. So it was our suggestion I think, erm, January time, it was just after Christmas, erm, you know, I’d just gone back to work, I was going back to work in March and just wanted something to sort of look forward to. Erm, and the others, again Jane and, erm, Russell and Matt and Rachael had been on MARK WARNER holidays before and had really enjoyed it as had Dave and I. So the idea of a MARK WARNER holiday sort of came up then really, thinking oh that would be great with the kids and it would also the adults some time to do some sports, we’re all quite sporty, we’re particular into sort of water sports and others into tennis, so we thought well, you know, it would be a nice, a nice holiday. Erm, Dave’s idea was Portugal.

viv said...

I do not know why she suggests the flight was such a convenient time because they never travelled on the flight that came with the holiday they charted a separate flight at extra cost so they could travel from East Midlands.

Dave had been to Pt before (as has Gerry) they were both so keen, but not Kate...


Erm, Dave’s idea was Portugal. Erm, I’d never been to Portugal before and he’d been, erm, at least once before (inaudible), erm, a few years ago with his sister and he, he was always very keen to go back. Erm, and I hadn’t been, it sounded nice, so we sort of looked at the Portugal website and thought well it’s good flight times for the kids, erm, it was quite early on in the season there so we were sort of in two minds whether it might be warm enough, et cetera. But, but spoke to others, erm, at that point I think, erm, we put it to, I think they were the only four, erm, three families we put it to really and Jane and Russell were very keen immediately as were sort of Matt and Rachael and Kate and Gerry were a bit undecided. Erm, and this always haunts me, erm, because Kate, huh, what had she said, when I was sort of twisting her arm really, she was unsure, I think Gerry was immediately quite keen, erm, to come and Kate had said, when I rang up, she said ‘I don’t know why I’ve just got an uneasy feeling about it’. And I don’t know why she said that, I don’t think she even knows, I never mentioned it to her since, but she said, you know, that was it really, but Gerry was so keen

viv said...

She had just said above Greece was not a Mark Warner but now it is, same ..kid and adult time!

We’d all been on MARK WARNER holidays, erm, in Greece, erm, I don’t think anyone had been anywhere else in Europe, but all those MARK WARNER holidays had, were very much the same, erm, different resorts but the same sort of layout, the same hypothesis of, you know, having kid time and adult time”.

viv said...

whoops slip of the tongue here, silly woman says babysitting and has to correct herself to babylistening.

Like you say Hope, they just wanted to go away and neglect their kids, I don't know why they took them!

She is really selling the theme here again and how they were so misled and would not have booked it if they had known they needed to do all those apparent checks. Funny given she goes on to say her and DAve never did any anyway!

Important to whom, one might ask! Their defence story?

When Dave and I went but actually they had never been on a Mark Warner before, lies slip easily of this lady's tongue that is for sure..

“They all offered a babysitting service. When Dave and I went we didn’t have children, but we were very aware, we met lots of couples that were using the babysitting ser, baby listening service, erm, where, you know, somebody goes, goes round the rooms and listens at the door for any, any children crying, erm, and then if they hear any crying they’ll come and fetch you and you’ve told them where you are. So we were very familiar with that ethos of MARK WARNER and we assumed that the Portuguese one operated the same way and in the brochure it sold itself the same way as all the others. And it was only after booking that I specifically went through and said ‘Well it doesn’t actually mention the baby listening service on this one’ and I rang up to check, because that was a big part, you know, we, we wanted to be able to have the social aspect of, of a holiday going away in a group and, plus, at that point, they couldn’t, erm, they, they said ‘Oh it’s a bit more spread out and we can’t put you all together in the same block’ and that again was a bit annoying if they didn’t have the baby listening service, so I’d rung up specifically to find out about this and was actually a bit annoyed when they said ‘Well actually this doesn’t operate a baby listening service’, because I don’t think we would have booked it had we known that”.

viv said...

on a balcony with their monitors looking after the children

i think the first bit was the priority having a drink, stuff the rest eh!

“Erm, so, but then I made the point and Dave had lots of emails with them saying ‘Well if you can’t, if you’re not doing that I feel your brochure is misleading and we would like all our apartments to be at least together if you can’t’, you know, ‘if you’re not offering that can you at least guarantee that’. And there was a lot of emailing to’ing and fro’ing before about this, erm, maybe me being a bit difficult, I don’t know. Erm, but, you know, as it was altered, they did manage to put us all close together as a group. Erm, so, you know, we thought well in the evenings we could at least get them to bed and with our baby monitors we can at least sort of have a drink together on, on a, on a balcony and still be all together, you know, looking after the children, so that was our plan before going really, that’s what we’d do. Erm, other than booking it I”.

viv said...

Dave did the actual booking I cannot remember, but it was me, as well, I do think she is covering again here!

Gerry paid separately and did not want them to handle the money, did he have to use his Mastercard because he did not have the money, but he knew he was going to remedy that problem?

“Dave I think did the actual on-line, but it was, it was both of us. I’m trying to think if anybody booked for themselves. I think, I think all of it. I, I have a feeling Kate and Gerry might have booked their part. Dave will probably remember more. I know we definitely booked for Matt and Rachael and handled their money and Russ and Jane we handled their money. I have a feeling, we probably booked it for Kate and Gerry but I think they paid, you know, we didn’t pay for them, I think Gerry paid directly. As I say, Dave did the actual booking and he might remember more about that”.

viv said...

Lies again Fiona just said above how great the flights were for the children but now actually they were terrible from London ..

Reply
“Erm, we flew, we organised, erm, our own flights, because obviously Matt and Rachael and Jane and Russell are South and nearer London and the actual MARK WARNER flights were from London, we felt, with our children being the age they were and the flight times it was just going to be a nightmare, erm, getting up, you know, really early in the morning and getting down to London, so we opted to organise our own flights from, you know, our regional Airport. Erm, so we got some money off the price, again it was a lot of emailing about that as well, I’d forgotten that, but, erm, yeah,

viv said...

When I go on holiday I usually take Luke and usually finish up paying for nearly everything and sort of ration him on different actitivies because it is so expensive. But this group were booked up to do something all the time, it must have been costing a fortune.
And YET THEY WOULD NOT PAY FOR BABYSITTERS FOR THEIR CHILDREN AT NIGHT, THAT IS STAGGERING JUST BLOODY STAGGERING



“Erm, and then after that we, Dave and I had booked in for a whole week of either, sort of alternate ski, erm, water sports, one day would be wind surfing, the next day sailing. Erm, so we’d sort of meet up on the beach after dropping the kids off for, for our lesson. And, generally, the others had booked different things. Some of them had booked some sort of, to do some tennis lessons or, Kate and Gerry were doing tennis, Jane was doing some tennis and I think she’d booked some wind surfing as well. Erm, so everybody had their own thing for the morning really. And then, erm, come lunchtime we’d pick them up, pick the kids up and meet back at the, at our apartment and, generally, I think, every day, we fed the kids in our apartment and usually Matt and Rachael came, would come up and Russ and Jane were there and the kids and usually Kate and Gerry had theirs in their apartment, mainly because their, they just found it easier”.

viv said...

Reply
“Our apartment will be sort of that sort of, sorry, I’m having to put the stairs over here. Erm, so our, that was our balcony sort of really looking straight at the Tapas Bar”.

viv said...

She is claiming there were some empty apartments separating Kate and Gerry from the others whose gardens she could look down on, that is weird, I though Rachel said she was in the apt on the Wed night (was it) and never heard any crying and Gerry also said he heard Grace crying through the wall, why is she trying to say this?


Reply
“Erm, and then, I’m trying to think, Jane and Russell, I have to think, as I look over the balcony, actually, because I think Jane and Russell were slightly to the right because we could see all their gardens and floors from our balcony. I’m just trying to envisage, their apartment must have been pretty much beneath us but slightly spilling over to the right, I think you could just about see their garden from one of the sides. I think Jane and Russell were about there, that’s the ground floor, and Matt and Rachael to the left of them and I think there was another one or two apartments in between, I can’t be sure about that, but certainly Kate and Gerry were on the end and then we could see into their garden from our balcony”.

Di said...

Hi Viv and all

Back in Wales enjoying some good weather.

This latest sighting come on a joke surely.

We actually have no idea if this 41year old witness is for real. He comes forward after two years only now, because his wife would have gone mad if she knew he was speaking to another women, oh please.

I think your wife would have forgiven you when you picked up the reward for finding Madeleine.

Wizard said...

Morning All,

Just been reading back and it was interesting to note Fiona Payne said that when she phoned Kate about the proposed holiday Kate felt uneasy about it but Gerry was keen.

There has been a great deal of speculation about David Payne. Two doctors and their kids who were on a previous holiday with them have said they would never go again with them because of his alleged behaviour towards children which made them uneasy.

I’m wondering if this is the cause of Kate’s unease. She is talking to her friend Fiona and would not have verbalised her concern about Fiona husband because right or wrong her friendship with her would be finished.

When one of the doctors who previously went on holiday heard the news about Madeleine the first thing she checked was if David Payne was on holiday with them.

Hmm…..

All these leads to far flung place in an attempt to find Madeleine are unwise the truth is much nearer to home.

Wizard said...

Some refreshing skepticism from today Belfast Telegraph.

Lindy McDowell: Will using public as sleuths really help find Madeleine McCann?

Belfast Telegraph Saturday, 8 August 2009

"Somehow you doubt it’s the sort of headline to thrill the image-conscious former Posh Spice. “Victoria Beckham look-alike sought in search for Madeleine.” And in fairness to Mrs. B, the photo-fit accompanying this week’s story did not exactly live up to the hype.
Actually it looked more like Frank Lampard. But then, so very much of the marathon saga that is the disappearance and search for Madeleine McCann has turned out to be something short of what we have been primed to expect.
The latest arguido/witness/possibly entirely irrelevant passer-by is said to be Australian. Maybe. Or perhaps from New Zealand.
She was spotted not in Portugal where Madeleine disappeared but in Barcelona three days later when she approached two Brits and said something which the McCanns’ investigators believe makes her “a person of interest”.
The British witnesses say they saw her outside the bar in which they were drinking near the Port Olimpic Marina around two in the morning. She was pacing up and down and appeared agitated (which given the area and the time of night could have had countless explanations.) She is described as being around 5’2” and a size 10. (The minuscule Victoria Beckham will love that last bit.)
But it was what this woman said that apparently aroused suspicions. She appears to have mistaken the Brits for someone else and asked: “Have you got her? Have you got the child?”Having realised her mistake and walked off, she then went to another bar where she was heard to berate someone. Seemingly in Spanish.
The odd thing. While the exchange may have raised his suspicions, the British man who is the investigators’ informant only contacted the McCann team recently.
Why did it take him two years to come forward? We’re told only that he is a credible witness and there were “personal reasons” why he has kept this to himself ever since. What these reasons are, we can only guess at.
Even before the high-profile press conference, the Madeleine case was already back in the headlines this week with news that British police have to date spent three quarters of a million pounds searching for the child.
If it helps find Madeleine — or even what happened to her — you could not begrudge a penny. And you can’t fault the McCann investigators from following up every lead.
It’s just that there’s been so very many of these leads. Each new one seemingly contradicting the previous theory of what could have happened to her. This little girl’s disappearance has been more widely reported and analysed than any other in history.
There can be few people anywhere in the world — especially in the Western world — who have not been alerted to her story. And yet to date? Not a trace. Throughout, the investigation has focused primarily on mobilising public support and vigilance. Has this been counter-productive?
For the result has been a bewildering array of “sightings”, theories and countless photo-fits from the featureless Mr. Potato Head ‘snatcher’ to this mysterious Aussie Posh who may have been ... what? A broker for child-traffickers?
Recruiting the public as an international band of armchair Sherlocks has failed to crack the case. The McCanns believe fervently in keeping the story in the headlines, and that reference to the Posh look-alike this week certainly ensured it did just that.
But then, you think of that man who despite all the publicity, appeals and pathos, still held his secret to himself for two long years for “personal reasons” and you wonder about the reasons and the accuracy of his recall.
Does the photo-fit look like Victoria Beckham?
Or just another red herring?"

Wizard said...

So this current lead has Amarel commenting today in Correio da Manha....

“From lie to lie by Gonçalo Amaral
source: Correio da Manhã, 08.08.2009
Translation by Astro - Joana Morais blog

Barcelona, the capital of Cataluña and of Modernism, where Antoni Gaudí has lived and worked and in whose museums the works of Miró and Picasso are exhibited, is one of the most interesting cities in Europe. With so many attractions, it would be expected that, during a hot month of May, a middle-aged English tourist would enjoy the beauties of Barcelona.

That was what the now main witness of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance did. He visited restaurants and bars, just like people visit museums and cathedrals. As the story goes, told two years later, in a bar at the marina, a woman, looking like Victoria Beckham, “maybe” with an Australian accent (something difficult for a British person, it’s like a Portuguese recognising a Brazilian), asked him: “Are you here to deliver my new daughter?”

The credible witness, imagine, had been drinking – but was not drunk. Was it a sexual type of invitation? Taking into account the ambience and the late hour!? When he saw the Victoria look-alike talking to a local, in Castellan, it is said, like unbridled polyglots, the tourist discovered the reason for the question: she was waiting for Madeleine.

From sighting to sighting and suspects by the dozen, the true story is not difficult to hide. Bring on the elections in Portugal and in England, let the funds run dry, and then we’ll see the result of so many lies and false leads.”

Soda said...

Hi Wizard

Just read your Belfast Telegraph article a breath of fresh air...

It makes me wonder what other Journalists are working on behind the sceens..

Let's face it if one newspaper is free to run with "The Story of the Century" the others will want to follow quickly not to be outsold...

No matter who their backers (if they really have any) are Money is what every business man gets out of bed in the morning.

Just the facts need to be printed and mot of the facts show they themselves did very little when Madeleine went missing other than cover their own sorry butts...

In fact the photos of the pair of them looking like they had won the lottery on Madeleines 4th Birthday on the front cover would show the world just how they were feeling when they were trying to convince the world Maddie was in the hands of a peadophile ring...

Maybe a headline The Mother who would not answer a single question for Madeleine could be a start after all these are facts...

Or maybe one of the Tapas will crack they cant all be evil heartless people then again if they are covering up something worse than child neglect god knows what these people are capable of?

After all that is all there is to it... If Madeleine had really been taken they would have all answered every question without a thought to how it would make them look would have handed over their cameras to get every single photo printed off and would have written down every thing they thought of and handed it over....

To create a pact of silence if she had been taken would be evil for Kate to refuse to answer simple questions for her daughter would be evil. Poncing around the globe in a mock search with fawning fools allowing this pair of child neglectors to kiss their babies???

I would not want any of these people near my children and feel sorry for their own who must live in a tense atmosphere with jumpy parents waiting for that knock on the door that will shatter their lives.

Di said...

Hi all

Finally we have a reporter, Lindy McDowell, who can see through this farce, I think TM went one step too far with this one.

GA has said all along there will be many more sightings to come but eventually the truth will come out. Let's hope it is sooner than the general election, things certainly seem to be moving along at a quicker pace. GA obviously thinks both Governments are behind this to make such a remark.

Di said...

I have tried to post several times but failed. I did a test and hit preview and it showed up yellow so here goes.

I think GA is very clever he is playing a game with kate and Gerry, cat and mouse and we know who wins don't we.

viv said...

HI All

Wiz, great post at 9.25, I think you are looking at the reality here, David Payne and Gerry which is why I though it was important to look once more at Fiona Payne who is clearly in an invidious position given who she chose as a husband.

By taking their farce to Australia they really are trying to take the heat off! As far away as poss seems to be the mantra. This is a huge continent, masses of it not even populated, a good choice I am sure.

There has to be a logical reason as to why Kate would be so fearful of going on this holiday. She did not go on the holiday the previous year, either to Greece where Payne was present. She had seen and heard enough about his unnatural desires and disgusting comments, relished by her own husband.

I do believe this provides the answer to the whole mystery. Dr Gaspar saw what Kate was so afraid of. The unnatural sexual attraction to her little girl, who was, at that time, just two years of age. That is more than enough to put any woman in fear.

The one thing I cannot quite work out, is why the British Police have allowed this evidence into the public domain. I believe it has to be something to do with putting pressure on Payne and Gerry. It is often a good tactic in legal disputes to try and provoke a response from your opponent. That often does yield further evidence when they are attempting to explain..you just let them go on.

viv said...

some more great interesting articles and comments and so glad, in spite of being in lovely sunny Wales, you are able to post Di. I always appreciate your really thoughtful posts.

I have determined I must go a walk every single day and it is getting dark, so I must go!

But will comment later when I get back from daily dose of trying be a bit slimmer and healthier!

xx

viv said...

Just walked for an hour including up a very steep hill, so that tells me I have done about 3 miles and the way I am sweating tells me my heart thought it was a good workout!

Di,

I think you are right again. Goncalo does play a little game of cat and mouse with Gerry, but of course he as always been the cat. He has intimate knowledge of the McCanns aided by his academic study of law, pyschology, sociology etc, to know beyond any doubt at all, this couple got rid of little Madeleine.

He drew them in with his story of Maddie having suffered an accidental death in the apt sometime after 9. It is not the most plausible of scenarios but it offers the least culpable means for Kate and Gerry McCann to admit their guilt. It is a lot more plausible than anything they can offer to match it.

But, like the clever man he is, he does not want to damage the real investigation and of course holds a lot of serious detail back. He has admitted there is more to reveal. He knows it is difficult to get the evidence to actually convict Kate and GErry. So, he pushes them very hard to sue him in a civil court. The only way they can try and shut him up is to accept the challenge, but having done so, they must live in terror of what further details Goncalo will reveal.

As a little taster for them, he recently starts talking more and more about David Payne. He queries, was he in the apt that night for 30 seconds or for 30 minutes. He makes plain he now wants to look at why they did not provide a timeline for the period 5.30 to 8.30 and we know from the exchanges between British Police and Ricardo Paiva the police are very interested in that time period. Indeed, they are very interested to know what DAvid Payne was doing all afternoon and what he was wearing.

So, if the McCanns want it the hard way and they still do not want to put their hands up, Goncalo can give it them the hard way.

viv said...

Did anyone think this was significant from the rog of Fiona:

Erm, so our, that was our balcony sort of really looking straight at the Tapas Bar”.

The police officer kept getting her to drawings, to clearly illustrate the only person who could see exactly who was at the Tapas Bar was David Payne. The same person who repeatedly argued with Mark Warner about rooms being all close together. When they arrived David and Gerry went into reception to get the keys, leaving the women children luggage outside. Just in case any further argument was needed?

When reading Fiona's interview it is clear the police are keenly interested in all the arrangements Payne made and how it came to be that he was the only person who got an upstairs apt with a clear view. He is a controlling person, just like Gerry of that I am sure. Many serious offenders feel an overwhelming need to control.

I also find Jeremy Wilkins description of them both very interesting, "gregarious", he makes a point of saying Payne is similar to Gerry in this respect. He was tactfully pointing something out IMO. His own thinking which he would know is not evidence in itself as he is not an expert on the case, but he plants it there, for other experts to spot.

His partner makes similar observations about Gerry when she wrote that piece "why I think the McCanns are innocent". She could not have written an article saying just the opposite.

viv said...

Thanks very much for the Belfast report and I agree hope it is refreshing to get some intellingent analysis instead of just parroting out the McCann media farce.

I especially liked the way she highlighted the real issue that I think the McCanns wanted to bury:

Even before the high-profile press conference, the Madeleine case was already back in the headlines this week with news that British police have to date spent three quarters of a million pounds searching for the child.


And then again, at the end, does this e-fit really look like Victoria Beckham or just another red herring.

Stating it looks like VB is using her in their publicity stunt. They know it will make everyone read it. They are piggy backing onto the fame of Victoria because their own is not as they desired. Somehow I think Victoria is going to take a really dim view of that, and who could blame her!

Soda said...

I wonder how the owner of the Yacht feel's today after basicaly being shoved centre stage as the people who took Madeleine?

I have some news for Edgar I think Gerry and Kate McCann are responsible for the death or for the cover up of the death of Madeleine.

He cant know 100% that they are not involved as there was no evidence of an abductor other than JT saying she saw Mr Potatoe head walking away with Madeleine in HIS arms and then saying it was Tooth Man who took her as suddenly she remebered all his features.

Tooth Man has now morphed into a dodgey Posh Spice look alike (which in itself is a massive insult to VB)and Edgar says JT may have seen a woman???

So the hunt has moved to Oz I wonder how many false sightings there will now be of blonde hair children with their Mothers (Mothers who dont go out on the lash with their freinds leaving their own children in an unlocked house)???

After watching the apaling press confrence I have to ask myself if Edgar is on their side at all he looked unsure of what he was saying and any ex cop would have to look at the McCann's apalling behaviour and lack of cooperation during the whole investigation and have major doubts about them.

I wish I had played it more cleverly in the begining and been apart of Team McCann's evil girly gang because that lot of playground bullies must ask themselves why they had to react to e mails and requests to paint the blog with flowers and fairys...

Maybe that is what the pretendy detectives are doing? as for Clarance he has aged dramaticaly over the last two years and looks unwell to me. He must realise how ridiculous his claims are as they get more and more absured...

People were joking about the latest sighting when I was out the other night and sadly that is what this has become... a joke...

I find it distrubing that I find a lead in a Missing child case funny but I cant help it it is a joke...

Kate and Gerry found the whole thing hysterical on Madelines 4th Birthday and on many many other occasions Gerry blogs about how clever and fit they are jogging in record times and these two are supposed to be devestated parents of a child in the hands of a peadophile ring???

So if they can laugh I guess it must be ok for me too as well...

I hope this yacht owneing socialite offers to run an investigation for them and hires her own detectives to crack the case and would like to see the expresion on the McCann's face's when this generous offer is made... Something tells me they wont be laughing if that ever happend...

Madeleine McCann victim of her parents neglect and lack of care there has to be other people out there who belive she is the only victim and deserves answers (even if her Mother thinks she deserves none)...

Wizard said...

Hi All,

I was listening to the Andrew Marr show this morning and a journalist commenting on a fellow political journalist said:

“No one threatens to sue or causes a rumpus if a journalist condemns the government one week and the next week turns the story around and goes into sycophantic praise of it. That’s journalism.”

Well….isn’t it just.

Front page of today’s Sunday Express:-

“SOCIALITE AT CENTRE OF MADDY MYSTERY -A MULTI-MILLIONAIRESS could be interviewed by Madeleine McCann investigators this week over the movements of her luxury motor cruiser... “

Not so long ago they had the Mc’s hung drawn and quartered for the death of their daughter. Then the Mc’s bit back with a deformation writ which has shut them up.

Hopefully the manipulative hold the Mcs have on the British media will fail then we will see the fireworks fly. Can’t wait.

Wizard said...

Hi Hope,

The millionaires lead is …..well what can you say about it.

I was going to say you couldn’t make it up. Well in fact you could… what about.

It has been reported by friends of VB that she is distraught over not being able to conceive a girl.

Currently her state of mind is in questioned and a source told us they have seen her repeatedly out and about with her three sons and a blond girl of about 6 years of age.

What a load of tosh – posh tosh in fact - LOL

Soda said...

Posh Tosh LOL Wiz that is funny!!!

I still think their are people out there that know exactly what happend to Madeline (including the T9)and my only wish for each of these people is they never get a good nights sleep as long as they stay quiet...

How can people keep making money off the back of a child when the last thing they will do for that child is help her???

xxx

Joe said...

Well, well, just when we all thought things had settled down and the McCanns were going to be quiet stay out of the limelight. Not to be, now we have the latest Victora B lookalike rubbish and the Ozzie link. Is it just coincidence that the same slimy tabloids in the UK are sister papers of the Australian ones printing the latest rubbish owned by newscorp? Its been a turbulent time for print newspapers with revenue at all time lows. What better way to generate income but keep the McCann saga going one way or another week in and out, then expand it to Australia for more revenue. All the while sell papers, the fund gets a cut and the story keeps going. Its just a farce and a set up IMO. Some where somebody is having a big laugh at this sick media exploitation of a child and the public at large. Its all designed to muddy and mislead and in the process generate money. I for one am sick to death of it, a soap opera is more news worthy at this stage. How the likes of that stooge Mitchell can hold another press conference and the media laps it up just defies belief after all the previous suspects, eggman, cooperman maybe even batman. The truth as most always IMO lies closer to home.

Wizard said...

Hi All,

I've just heard that......

"daughter" or "farmer's daughter" is street slang for a quarter of an ounce of drugs.

"have you got me daughter" in Austrialia apparently means have you please got my quarter ounce of peruvian marching powder.

The expensively dressed Austrialian/NZ woman in Barcelona is noted at being in an agitated state – putting 2 and 2 together LOL

Wizard said...

Has anyone seen this video courtesy of Youtube.

link

Di said...

Hi all

Viv

Thanks for your kind words. Quite honestly i don't feel i contribute much at all. I wish i had more time to research but i don't.

However, i would like to take this opportunity to thank those who do, like yourself, Joanna and many on 3A's, without you this case would be long forgotten.

Keep up the good work Viv xx

Di said...

Hi Wizard


I can't get the link to work. It could just be me though :o(

Di said...

Wizard

Is it the one posted by Stevo?

If so i have just picked up the link from 3A's.

Forgetting everything we have been told so far. Madeleine crying for over an hour is heart breaking and this video brings it home, even though we hear crying for only a short time.

What was Madeleine going through?

My heart goes out to that poor child.

viv said...

Hiya all and great to read you.

Hope, whilst I agree the subject of Maddie being missing is not funny, one just cannot help but take a poke at the latest offering from Team McCann. It is they who ridicule the memory of this dear little girl.

An exchange Albym and I just had on 3As kind of sums it up and surely the McCanns must expect laughter and derision, it is what they deserve. We are not laughing at Madeleine, we are not laughing at them!
======
albym

Did anyone see anything from Oz about the "non-suspects" being interrogated by the 'tendy d icks as to why they had the temerity to have a yacht in the Med without official sanction from the Prawn King?
How very dare they!

==
viv

You made me laugh, how very dare they indeed! What a liberty! Gerry wants one, the fund has been a serious disappointment to him, to date.

He really needed a great yacht to go search for his little princess, in the Bermuda Triangle hopefully

The Prawn King, let us make sure that one sticks
==
albym

The absolute effrontery of these rich people who were reportedly "perplexed", even "distraught", about an EDICT issued from the Throne of the Pink Prawn. Astounding!

No wonder we are reading about the Emperor and Empress being crestfallen. Have those people no loyalty to the 'Wider Agenda' in W.A.?

Imagine if this were allowed to continue unchecked. The world may lose its god-given right to have its Pink Prawn Pope!

[Note: The "Peacock" throne is so last century. Prawns Rule! - don'cha know] :))



viv



I do recall Saint Kate of Cuddlecatta issuing an Edict in the Daily Express that Robert Murat had a case to answer, no doubt for having the audacity to live within the 500 yards curtilage of their palatial holiday abode.

Two years later it would seem Saint Kate is still at her keyboard, preparing the latest edict and I don't know when people are just going to realise that if they do not listen to her immediately, she will get the Pink Prawn to pronounce on the matter. Thus, people the world over, from poverty stricken paedophiles complete with death rattle, to the rich and famous on their gin palaces just have to jump up and do as they are told. We decree you are now a suspect and will be interviewed by my latest choice of pet poodles, forthwith!

_________________


viv

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:58 pm
Posts: 3400
It may even be Albym, that the TAPAS 9 in general suffer from the rare but very serious psychological disorder, Retaliatory Gruelling Interview Syndrome. Thus they have tried to replicate the real police to inflict this with their Pretendy Defective Poodles, and Kate in particular, whilst in the throes of a very bad bout of this horrendous syndrome searches the wide world to re-allocate this gruelling punishment on others. In doing so, Gerry has advised that no stone should be left unturned in terms of race, creed, class or culture. It is wrong to discriminate he reasons. He has a certain sense of irony in spite of his condition. The world must be scoured for suitable victims. These victims must do the very same that they and their allies have had to endure, at the hands of real Non Pretendy policemen (and women too even, I know Gerry is amazed at their effrontery which brings back painful memories of one Portuguese lady called Sandra) yes at the very least, Kate's chosen victims must endure at least a five hour stint of interrogation by Eddie, The Terrible. A truly awesome thought.

viv said...

Di, thanks, I think there is just one reason I stick with this, I want to know what happened to little Maddie and I want to see justice unfolding. I understand that until such time as LP are in a position to arrest them I will just have to wait, but somehow, the McCanns seem increasingly desperate to me and that can surely only mean one thing.

Joe, I promise not to say one more time, oh the McCanns have finally shut up, because if there is one thing that can be guaranteed, as soon as I say that !!

I think they are just so desperate they really cannot give up. Hewlett etc was a disaster and did not produce the result so on they go, but they must be seriously mentally ill. But, no, I do not think they are going to be able to blame Goncal for that!

viv said...

Wiz I suppose Eddie's investigation skills do not run to knowing the latest buzz words for a bit of charlie!

Personally I thought she was asking for a bonk! added to the bit about the expensive jeans. I mean if you prowl up and down alongside a load of boozy men in a bar it may just occur to you and she was not with anyone! I am sure that must be the witnesses personal reasons for being so coy, he liked the look of her and went over for the very obvious reason that a bloke would go over at 2 am in that situation.

I have posted on Stevo's new thread which is rather distressing, the video he has put together. But the main thing for me, there is a picture of Gerry with that wide eyed cocaine look, a bit more proof to me of what I have always thought and alcohol and cocaine make a very dangerous combination. I gather STevo is suggesting Gerry came back on 1 May and lost his temper with little Maddie. But I just find the concept of keeping her body for two days in there simply well very hard to believe although clearly not impossible.

viv said...

But the McCanns denied any knowledge of crying that night and insisted it was the twins the following night. That is odd behaviour and may explain a lot.

In denial that Maddie was crying at all, she just complained about the twins crying the next morning at breakfast and in denial that it was a few night before not the immediate night before which Kate seems to slyly use to actually suggest an abductor was in there that night, disturbing her little angels. You just have to say it, the woman is completely mad.

Soda said...

As the McCann's get so much hope from the posh spice size 10 expensive jeans lookalikie I thought I would share some red hot obvious information with CM and his band of has been police men....

If "Posh" was in Spain on the 5th May 2007 and can speak fluent Spanish and was seen (god forbid) arguing with her "Spanish" boyfriend what makes you assume she had gone back to Australia (or could it be NZ)seem's more likely she is one of the many people who choose to live in another country with their "Spanish" boyfriend...

So why are they not in Spain looking for her it is a much smaller country and lets face it she would stand out a little if she is still there as there are always plenty of Brits, Germans, French etc when I go away on holiday to spain but if I hear an American or Australian accent whilst away it is unusual....

How the words of a selfish t*sser can give anyone hope 2 years too late is beyond me 2am in the morning after several bars on a stag weekened would they have lapped it up if he had told them little green men had been there and said something strange???

Will people give Madeleine the respect she deserves and force the 8 parents on that holiday to start to answer some questions.

Not being funny but if my freinds child was missing I would answer every question put to me as the child would come before all of us...

Given them Hope? Is that the same hope they had on her 4th Birthday when they were laughing their lying heads off....?

viv said...

hiya Hope!

I have got news for the McCanns as well, if they had any information as to where Madeleine is, they, as the responsible and loving parents they claim to be, would ask the police to investigate that information.

So I just want to know, why is it neither British, Spanish or Australian Police have been contacted by them?