26 Jun 2010

British couple jailed in Spain for murdering baby daughter

British couple jailed in Spain for murdering baby daughter

A British couple have been convicted of murdering their two-month-old baby daughter in Spain after failing to take her to hospital after she fractured her skull in a fall.

 
Torrevieja in Spain
Daryl Waller and Carla Devlin lived together in Torrevieja, pictured, on Spain's southeastern Mediterranean coast Photo: ALAMY
Daryl Waller, 23 and Carla Devlin, 21, face up to 19 years in prison after a jury found them guilty following a three-day trial in Elche near Alicante.
The court heard that they did not get medical help for their daughter, Lucia, after an apparent accidental fall for fear that doctors would detect signs of neglect.
The child died in March 2008 and her parents tried to pass it off to authorities in the Costa Blanca as a cot death.
But forensic tests showed that the infant had suffered two fractures of the skull a week before her death and was malnourished.
The couple, who lived together in Torrevieja on Spain's southeastern Mediterranean coast, were arrested at the border to Gibraltar as they attempted to flee Spain.
A state prosecutor told the jury they were "fully conscious of the fatal consequences of their actions" when they failed to take their daughter to a medical centre to treat her skull fracture. The court heard that the injury is thought to have been the result of an accidental fall.
Prosecution lawyers also claimed that Lucia's parents were worried that by taking their daughter to hospital, doctors would spot bruises on her body caused by previous beatings.
Waller and Devlin each blamed the other for their daughter's death during the trial.
Waller, who moved to Spain with his family when he was 13, admitted to suffering from a personality disorder, for which he had been treated at a clinic in the UK but stopped talking his medication when he moved abroad.
The court heard his condition was aggravated by addictions to drink and drugs. His lawyer argued that if jury members decided to convict him of killing his daughter, they should find him guilty of the lesser crime of manslaughter.
Devlin, who also moved to Spain with her family as a teenager, took to the stand, and between sobs, insisted that she had never hurt her daughter. "I always loved her," she said.
The prosecutor has called for a jail sentence of 19 years each to be imposed.

71 comments:

viv said...

Another perv doctor who just like Gerry McCann thinks little girls are "beautiful". Dr David Payne too I presume.

By BEN ARCHIBALD

Published: 02 Jun 2010
A PERV doctor who described himself as a "recovering paedophile" was warned yesterday he is facing a life sentence.
A disgusted sheriff demanded that twisted Leslie Mitchell, 56, have his sentencing referred to the High Court for harsher punishment after he tried to lure two little girls into his car.

The A&E medic - who lives next to a primary school - admitted telling the terrified kids, aged ten and 11, they were beautiful and that it would be "fab" if he could tickle their legs as he tried to persuade them to get into his motor.

Yesterday sickened Falkirk Sheriff Craig Caldwell told the paedo, of Carronshore, Stirlingshire, he posed a "chilling" threat to youngsters and he had insufficient powers to punish him properly.

Beast's lair ... perv's home next to school
Beast's lair ... perv's home next to school

He said: "My sentencing powers in this case are clearly inadequate and I will send it to the High Court for sentencing and recommend lifelong restriction.

"Social workers say you described yourself as 'a recovering paedophile'. But it appears you are a determined sexual offender.

"There is no doubt you prove a very significant risk to children."

There were screams of "beast" as Mitchell - who resigned from Stirling Royal Infirmary after admitting the January offence - was led to the cells.

A victim's relative later said: "We're glad he's going away for a long time."

A lifelong restriction order would see Mitchell continually monitored even after being freed - and immediately returned to jail should he reoffend.

NHS Forth Valley Mitchell confirmed he's "no longer employed".

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2995741/Leslie-Mitchell-56-Im-a-recovering-paedo.html#ixzz0s0qtTKHi

Wizard said...

Hi All,

Waller and Devlin it appears did not have the presence of mind to conceal the body of their daughter and say it was an abduction! Because of this lack of hindsight they now face up to 19 years imprisonment.

Hmm….

hope4truth said...

Hi Wiz

Sadly this is another case of serious child abuse and neglect...

You are right though had they done the same as the McCanns they could be slightly richer and could spend the cash on drugs booze and maybe even buy themselves a nice little house.....

With the right PR machine they could have been doing paid interviews and only answering the questions they wanted to for a few years.....

Sad that the McCanns did not think and realise that years down the line the interviews they did when everything was a secret would make them look even worse...

Even being the evil blogger I am I never imagined in a million years Kate would refuse to answer a single question for her missing child....

邦雄 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
S.B. said...

Evening.........,

In my opinion it is one thing to imagine what goes through the mind of a paedophile but a completely different thing to hear their words. The mere thought of this pervert referring to a childs beauty and suggesting "tickling their legs" makes my blood curdle ~ or Gerry Mccann/David Payne commenting on the aesthetics of Madeleine's appearance is to me equally perverse in it's intention.

I can't imagine the reasoning behind such abnormal expressions but one thing is for certain, whatever the real motive there are sinister connotations that cannot be ignored. It is not normal for a friend of the family (David Payne) to make such personal remarks about a childs appearance nor do I think it right for a father to refer to his daughter in such terms. Again we witness Mccanns blatant disregard for anything that can be considered morally acceptable. Such behaviour is one of the reasons I think that the Mccanns and their clan are now out of their depth. It's possible that they have created a huge scam that has gone way out of control forcing them, Gerry in particular, to make mistakes that cannot be rectified. Otherwise I can only say that the man is suffering from a serious mental illness ~ nothing else could explain such reckless behaviour!

viv said...

hiya all

Wiz, I suppose it was a bit like the England and Germany match today. You have the Germans, systematic, businesslike, organised, single mindedly getting on with the job. We could equate this with Team McCann who have so far managed to stay out of jail due to what I have no doubt was a ruthless amount of determination to get on with the task, get rid of Madeleine, leave no trace and stay out of jail.

Time and again we see other couples who have disposed of their child in one way or another, by murder or by faked abduction like Karent Matthews, but those systems were not in place to prevent the police quickly gathering sufficient evidence to ensure a conviction . Gerry was studying police manuals for his bed time reading at night. He left nothing to chance. It is not actually rocket science to know that if a child is made to just disappear into thin air and then you tell the police, well actually we left the door open, that makes it very difficult for the police to conclusively prove what you did.

But what the McCanns have to live with is the lack of co-operation Gerry and Kate have faced from both Portuguese and British Police in seeking to continue to con the world that they are innocent and amass a fortune to pay for Kate's lost wages (and more) and pay for their legal defence when the case does come to court. An eventuality Gerry was immediately considering "the fund has enabled us to get a really good team of lawyers together".

As far as I am concerned, they are going to need them, because like any seriously complex case, no matter how many years it takes, the police will be looking for a result on this one. This is why Kate and Gerry just do not shut up and give up, they simply cannot.

In June 2007, the Portuguese Police re-interviewed the social worker and showed her photographs of the TAPAS group so that she could positively identify David Payne to them. She did, and the PJ referred to him as a "suspect". IMO, he planned the disappearance of Madeleine with her own father, to hide the abuse they had subjected her to and int he case of Gerry to make a fortune in the process.

This blog and many others and Goncalo Amaral have thwarted every attempt the McCanns have made to continue making more money of Madeleine. That is why we continue to get attacked. In that way we have contributed to Justice for little Maddie McCann.

I am not bothered by some sad pervert who keeps turning up here, posting links to perverted images. I am content to know that he and his ilk are just heading one way, locked up where they belong.

xxx

viv said...

In the above report, I note that the Spanish authorities are giving the parents the benefit of the doubt and referring to it as a possible "accident" because they do not have conclusive evidence of precisely what happened.

But there is evidence the baby's skull was fractured a week before death and the baby was malnourished.

In UK the parents would simply be charged with causing or allowing the baby's death, there would be no question of it being termed an accident, particularly given it is no accident to fail to get medical help.

But Spain is near to Portugal and in the case of McCann, Goncalo also described what may have happened to Madeleine as a possible "accident". I wonder if I have spotted a difference in legal procedure and approach, perhaps in Spain and Portugal when the evidence is not the least conclusive as to what happened that accident word gets used, but this simply would not happen in UK. Af far as UK law is concerned if it was a mere accident there is no criminal culpability.

I do think this has many times annoyed me somewhat about Goncalo using that description, but I think it is probably just a standard fallback position they adopt when there is a lack of evidence as to precisely what happened. For me, the degree of planning involved in Team McCann, would not even allow for UK law's lowest level of culpability for homicide, gross negligence. The McCanns were not negligent as to Madeleine disappearing, it was planned and deliberate and as David Payne admits, Kate had grave concerns about going on that holiday, but she did and she knew what was going to happen.

viv said...

Comment i have just left on Anna Andress blog:
I think the McCanns would have been only too happy to see the investigation re-opened in Portugal. Just so long as it was on their terms...

That UK and PJ files are amalgamated (so Gerry can see what is on them and plan accordingly);

that the pressure he has sought to put on both Pt and British governments finally worked, there is an acceptance the McCanns are innocent and only a stranger taking Madeleine from Portugal should be further investigated.

But both sides are deadlocked. The McCanns know that British authorities continue to investigate them because they are not innocent and the respective governments in both countries will back the police and their certain knowledge there is no stranger abduction for the PJ to investigate.

As Gerry continues to vent his spleen we have seen absurd reports in the British press, there is to be a "review" and Leicester Police will no longer be on the case. But just like any other criminal, Gerry McCann does not get an entire police force the sack because they are convinced, on the basis of the totality of the evidence, that he masterminded the disappearance of his own little girl. He can bounce, swagger, rage, brief the press, lobby parliament, attack the British and Portuguese Police just as much as he likes, nothing changes their certain knowledge about him, his wife, David Payne and the rest of them. They alone, hold the key to unraveling the mystery of Maddie and the police will get them in the end.

viv said...

Definite line from porn to abuse
Ali Bracken

IT BEGINS as a passing interest in looking at pictures of children being sexually abused. But within a short space of time, some men who have satisfied this need find themselves wanting more. Their new online friends begin to put pressure on them to provide them with new photos and videos of children being abused. Some men are more than happy to oblige. They begin to groom children online in an attempt to cajole them into sending them naked pictures of themselves and try to persuade them to meet them in person. The transition from someone who looks at child porn to child abuser can happen within a matter of weeks.

"Collectors" of child pornography are increasingly forming relationships with like-minded people online and are sharing rather than buying pictures. They are also pooling their collective information on how to get away undetected with assaulting children. Videos on how to groom children are shared. Abusers also swap tips about how best to masquerade as a child when interacting with kids in internet chat rooms.

A wealth of international research has identified a definite link between those who access child porn and paedophilia. One of the most widely accepted pieces of research has emerged from the American federal agency the United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS).

It found that 30% of people who were arrested in America for possession of child pornography were also involved in the abuse of children. "There have been various studies. One found that 80% of men in prison in the US for possession of child porn had abused children," says John Carr of the European NGO Alliance for Child Safety Online (eNACSO).

"Every study in the world, except for one in Switzerland, found that there is a strong link between people who collect child porn images having a much higher probability of going out and abusing children. It makes sense. If you buy Gardener's Weekly magazine, it's more than likely you're going to spend some of your time gardening."

For some people, looking at pictures of child porn is enough to satisfy their urges. But others keep pushing the boundaries until they begin to seek out children to abuse. One of the killers of toddler James Bulger was charged last week with downloading child pornography. Jon Venables, now 27, was charged with downloading child porn using peer-to-peer networks (P2P), a popular technique in Ireland.

On one private peer-to-peer network set up online by a group of child abusers, new members who wished to join were not permitted to unless they could provide a brand new image – not an old photo – of a child being abused.

cont'd

viv said...

In other words, to become a member, a child porn enthusiast had to go out and abuse a child. It is also a very clever way of stopping undercover police from infiltrating the group.

"This is a very dangerous development. It's actively encouraging abuse of children. The child porn industry is becoming less about money and more about like-minded people developing communities," says Dr James Walkerdine, a research fellow at the UK's Lancaster University.

Walkerdine is involved with the ISIS organisation, which supports law enforcement agencies in policing social networks for the purpose of online child protection. The group is currently developing a software programme for police that will help them identify when an adult is masquerading as a child online through language techniques.

While adults who try to groom children online often use simple language, they can still be identifiable as adults on this new computer programme.

"Simple things like grammar and using capital letters can give someone away as being older than they actually are – also the tone of the language used and if there is an attempt at dominance," he explains.

Walkerdine and his colleagues recently undertook an experiment at a local school in Lancaster. Adults posing as children chatted online to the kids but only one in five of the children were able to tell they had been talking to an adult.

In comparison, the language software programme was able to determine correctly in 94% of cases when an adult was posing as a child. Eventually, it is hoped that the language software programme will be available for police forces worldwide, as well as for parents to install on their home computers to protect their children.

The techniques used by men who seek to groom children on the internet are becoming more sophisticated, due in part to the sharing of information by paedophiles and child porn enthusiasts online.

"Often, a paedophile will have multiple personas online. They go online as a child into a chat room, then they introduce their 'uncle' to a child they have befriended. This is to get the child used to speaking to an adult. The adult's immediate goal is to get the child to send them pictures. They then blackmail the child to send them more and more pictures by threatening to release them on the internet otherwise," explains Walkerdine.

"The blackmail continues and their eventual goal is to force the child to meet them in person."

There have also been recent instances in the UK where paedophiles posing as modelling agencies on social networking sites Facebook and Bebo have tried to cajole children into sending them photos.

Fergus Finlay, chief executive of Barnardos, says Irish society cannot be complacent about the capabilities of those who seek to sexually assault children. "There is a strong link between downloading child porn and paedophile behaviour," he says. "I'm convinced that anyone capable of downloading these images is equally as capable of trying to groom children on the internet."

June 27, 2010

viv said...

The social worker I am referring to above, Yvonne Warren Martin, both she and former friends of the McCanns/Paynes *Katerina and Arul Gaspar identified Payne as a possible paedophile - that is some coincidence. Two entirely separate and professional witnesses.

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head in your above post when you say.

“Spain is near to Portugal and in the case of McCann, Goncalo also described what may have happened to Madeleine as a possible "accident". I wonder if I have spotted a difference in legal procedure and approach, perhaps in Spain and Portugal when the evidence is not the least conclusive as to what happened that accident word gets used, but this simply would not happen in UK. As far as UK law is concerned if it was a mere accident there is no criminal culpability.”

Viv, lol - don’t get me onto the world cup analogies – yesterdays England vs Germany game.

It appears to me the England squad when playing in the premier league are surrounded by skilled foreign players, bathing in their reflected glory and they flatter to deceive. When removed from their comfort zone the England players perform to their true ability – a step above Sunday morning pub players!

Wizard said...

Morning All,

Whilst at Uni many years ago I did a placement which involved sitting in paedophile therapy groups. What struck me was the parallel universe they live in. They truly believe they love children and cannot understand what they are doing is wrong despite the many times it’s explained to them. During long-term therapy they can change their ways but two of three years down the line temptation presents itself and they relapse. There is no cure it’s the way they are and to me it is like saying to a heterosexual you are not allowed heterosexual drives because its illegal. The natural drive or the unnatural drive in the case of paedophiles will remerges despite the threat of imprisonment.

Some paedophile panic and kill their victims to avoid detection a very small minority might also be psychopathic and have no qualms about killing their victim after using them.

If one of more of the T9 has a paedophile trait they will not think they are doing anything wrong just the rest of World is unenlightened and ignorant.

Sad but I think true.

viv said...

Hiya Wiz

I think England were just a bunch of overpaid prima donnas, rather than a team like the Germans operating set procedures that have been rigorously trained for. Plucking invididuals out of the premier league and then expecting them to properly work together is not the answer, they should be paid less and expected to work a lot harder for their own clubs and for England.

viv said...

Wiz thanks for your interesting post about your Uni placement.

I have noted that some types of paedophiles are also very controlling and bullying. But trying to get them to have any insight into that, and the impact they have on others is extremely difficult.

When Gerry so angrily and resolutely insists there is absolutely no evidence of any harm coming to Madeleine and that exasperated comment in Portugal "well where is the child", he does send real chills down my spine.

Likewise when he talks about cases like Frizel and Kampusch and says such cases give him comfort. I think that gives us an insight into his thought processes, paedophiles do not actually harm children. Only paedophiles actually believe that to be the case.

S.B. said...

Hi Wizard.......,

I realise you are illustrating your point by an experience and of course I don't for a moment suggest you condone paedophilia but I cannot accept that paedophiles do not know that what they do, or contemplate doing, is wrong. I think the acceptance of such a viewpoint is very dangerous and could lead to an escalation of unprecedented proportions with paedophilia and the ways in which it can be eradicated.

If you recall when homosexuality was considered to be taboo, persons of this persuasion were forced to hide their sexuality and only 'come-out' within their own environment. Then came emancipation and although they still do prefer to be surrounded by their own kind, they can now enjoy the freedom to live without restraint and openly practice homosexuality. Although this is a different issue I can foresee a similar situation arising if paedophiles are excused by society because they do not have the mental capacity to understand their actions as being wrong!

Like most types of criminal they become devious and thus create a camouflage in order to veil their activities and I think that is exactly what the group that you encountered were about. I know I am cynical and judgemental but I truly can't believe that anybody involved in paedophilia does not know precisely what they are about. Their methods of achieving their objectives is evidence of self knowledge, the cold calculated way in which they operate indicates the total control they have over their victim and themselves.

My opinion of course!

Di said...

Hi all

Paedophiles are the scum of the earth end of. I also do not think they can ever be rehabilitated, this is where I totally agree with Wizard, because they do not believe they are doing anything wrong.

Unfortunately, yes as S.B says they are devious to the extreme.

Today, I have been in the company of a very close friend whose partner works in the NHS. They come across many strange cases.

Let me tell you the latest paedo fantasy, the website "Virtual World" they create their paedo family and fantasy and believe it is real!! Then when they get bored, live that fantasy out if they get the oppurtunity. Sick or what!

I have always thought the internet is a wonderful opportunity for many, but when I hear about websites like Virtual World I truly believe they should be shut down.

Interestingly, a wife has divorced her husband on the grounds that he had another wife in virtual world, I think that says it all.

Is the world going mad!!

Di said...

Hi Viv

Well said on Anna's site.

xx

viv said...

Hiya both


SB I do not think Wiz is suggesting society should excuse paedophiles, he is merely stating the truth, that they do rationalise their behaviour and when you talk to them it is quite uncanny how they will normalise and rationalise their behaviour.

High risk paedophiles who actually physically abuse children almost always score highly on the Hare Psycopathy checklist. So we cannot compare their thinking style with that of a normal person who has had a normal upbringing. Many of these offenders have only known "love" when their father was beating or sexually abusing them, that is how their character is formed and why they hold the views that they do.

Di, to me the research confirms that sex offender treatment programmes are only really effective with men who have fairly low level sexual arousal towards children and do not score highly as psychopathic, and of course they have not committed the most serious types of offences like child rape and murder. Even then treatment programmes reduce re-offending in some, they do not eradicate it.

Being sexually aroused by children and wanting to dominate and control cannot be compared with normal sexuality like being a lesbian or gay IMO with another consenting adult. It is serious child abuse that the law must continue to seek to contain and diminish as much as possible. Because so many sexually abused children, grow up to do exactly the same themselves and by that stage have all of those disordered thinking patterns firmly in place and a complete lack of empathy for defenceless children, they never learned that...

viv said...

Di, I have always thought that what Katerina Gaspar was describing was Gerry and Payne doing what paedophiles typically really enjoy doing as your scenario demonstrates, fantasising about sexually abusing a child, but they do not term it as "abuse". It sounded like pleasurable titillation over drinks. To say that demonstrates seriously disordered thinking would be something of an understatement, Madeleine was two!

S.B. said...

Hi Viv......,

Although it may appear to the contrary I did not misinterpret Wizards post I just made a hash of trying to explain myself. I am trying to say, by way of illustration, that there is too much leniency these days towards issues that effect our daily lives and in particular crime. We have reached the stage whereby someone can literally 'get away with murder'. Notwithstanding an individuals right to fair justice, to my way of thinking offenders are frequently treated with leniency for all sorts of reasons, quite frequently through the hands of society or clever lawyers. Nor am I making a comparison between homosexuality and paedophilia per se. Again I am trying to identify an alternative scenario where leniency has encouraged escalation of an abnormal state being accepted as normal.

It is beyond my ability to accept that an adult is not aware when they doing something wrong. The very fact that they try to hide their actions is surely indicative of their awareness. Again I must bow to your better understanding of the subject as I have no professional experience of paedophilia or child abuse. I do however have knowledge of the actions of many individuals who flock to this country for cheap easy sex, some of which have a penchant for under aged boys. I once encountered a man who said he had deserted his 'boy' because he was terrified of AIDS but it wasn't long before he returned having decided that AIDS is preferable to abstinence ~ how reckless is that! My interpretation of his confession confirms my belief that he knew exactly what he was doing was wrong ~ but he clearly didn't care. That is only one example of horror stories I can relate on a similar theme.

I think I am confusing things again ~ must be the heat!

Di said...

Hi all

Viv

I have always taken the Gaspar's statement to be truthful, simply because as Doctors themselves they had too much to lose if they had lied.

No matter how much some try to excuse Gerry and David's behaviour as drunken frivolity, it is far from it.

viv said...

Hiya SB,

Can you email on

felicity123@live.co.uk so that I can send you a link to become a member of this blog because sometimes it is necessary to restrict comments to members only.

When the subject turns once again to what Gerry and Payne really are, we seem to get a spate of repetitive posts where the poster appears to think they can bully and brainwash. Of course that does go with the profile of this type of person, that obsessive need to seek to control others by stalking behaviour.

I think what Wiz and I probably both mean is that this type of offender's thought processes are so utterly disordered that yes, they know they are breaking the law, but to a paedophile the law is stupid, that is the frightening thing when you speak to them. They just do not believe that what they are doing is wrong from a moral point of view.

Gerry's remarks are indicative of that mentality, i.e. there is absolutely no evidence that Madeleine has come to any harm, and yet, he insists she is being held by a paedophile. To a normal parent they would probably prefer their child to be dead than enduring years of serious sexual abuse, as suggested by Gerry McCann - it gives him comfort to know that, he says. To a normal parent such a thought would just be undescribable agony.

viv said...

Di, the thing that has always interested me is that the GASPAR and Yvonne Martin statements were released into the public domain.

Whether that was a question of STu Prior going to Portugal and arguing they should remain confidential, or whether it was a case of a policy decision to bring pressure to bear on the TAPAS group by allowing the public to know the reality, I am not sure.

But I do think British Police know an awful lot more still about this group of individuals and their own part in the disappearance of lovely little Maddie McCann.

As you say, the GASPAR statement is entirely credible, one could hardly compare it with the newspaper loving/cash grabbing Gran Cooper. As professional people they were clearly just concerned for Madeleine and the police having the full facts at their disposal, they have never once spoken to the press, the mark of proper police witnesses.

viv said...

I wonder if the Gerry Fund really has dried up?

As of 4 am 28 June, 3 Arguidos domain expired *ITS BANNED LOL!

hope4truth said...

Hello

I always found it funny how your little blog came under such strong attack Viv...

The mocking posts about how numbers were falling ha ha ha etc and the repeated attemps to post porn here simply proved to me that whatever we were saying was so near the truth a certain someone with a temper was stamping his little foot and sending his friends in to sort us out....

We did not know very much 3 years ago we had already witnessed just how delighted and happy the McCanns were on their missing childs 4th Birthday. We had seen the picture of Mummy Daddy and Uncle John with a giant T Shirt grinning like idiots and knew that Uncle John had chucked in his job to be paid by the fund.....

Looking back on what we do know now...

Kate Refusing to Answer a single question.
T7 refusing to do a reconstruction.
Uniform Statements.
Smashed shutters not smashed shutters no they came in the door CC was on a high shelf no wait there was not a high shelf etc.

The shutters were the fundermental thing in their story, the curtain going whoooooosh as she opened the door (and she knew someone had been in as the bedroom door was not as they had left it) even though 2 people had been into the apartment and Kate had no way of knowing how the door was left....

I am sure the police are still investigating and in the future we will see 9 adults each serving jail time for their part in whatever happend to Maddie assisting an ofender or perverting the course of justice both carry a heafty sentence.....

The fund is running out of money (although whatever is left I am sure PACT would be delighted with that amount in their coffera) and I still belive the fraudulant fund will be one thing that can be traced and if they are never charged over what they did to their child through the fund they will be proved crooks.....

I dont have as much time to post now and to be honest what is left to say? Maddie has been pushed aside for her parents defence. Yet everytime they come to disrupt it makes me post all over again...

Without RP and her sick little gang on the DX we would have all had our say came to the conclusion they were lying and drifted back into our lives (only so much you can say really) but when it is obvious you cant give an opinion or ask very normal questions well my mind started to race with just what it was they did do....

And Way back in 2007 I thought the worse that may have happend was accidental overdose or accident...

Now I fear something much sicker and darker was going on and the reason I belive this is all thanks to Team McCann....

viv said...

Hiya Hope

This thing referring to itself as Viv the Div and nicking the lovely picture of my garden pond, continued here throughout the night, posting the same sad post, over and over again. Even after I blocked it, by making it members only it still hovered on this blog, utterly pathetic! I am sure paedophiles do not like to be attacked by people pointing out just how revolting and dangerous they are.

Those jemmied/not jemmied shutters and windows are the fundamental problem for the McCanns. It has always marked them out for the guilty liars that they are. The police are not fools. The McCanns were the fools for assuming they would be and that they could continue to con the public, make Maddie the Movie etc.

Finally, I think they got the message, the public do not like them, their only interest is seeing them locked up for what they did to such a wonderful little girl who no doubt countless thousands of people would have been only too happy to love and protect.

hope4truth said...

LOL Viv

I had not seen any of those posts just assumed another moron had been over after your post...

Viv the Div maybe it is Mum21 her poetry is about as educated as that...

I tried really hard to try and see all sides and although the only wonderful outcome would be if she was given up to somoene who knew how real parents behave and she is happy somewhere if that is the case I hope she stays hidden until she is old enough to make choices in her life.....

Now with perverts posting their sick crap all over again I fear something very evil happend to her....

The new government (and although I hate to give any credit to the Conservatives) dont seem to be doing too bad a job maybe they can show the world that they are going to sort out crimes against children once and for all.... For starters they could force the re opening of the Maddie case and start by auditing the books of the fund....

viv said...

Hiya Hope

I discovered that "Rosiepops" also posts under the Garth and that name in turn takes you to a sick blog with a picture of an ugly fat male!

I do believe these people are paedophiles and this blog gets particular attention because the aim has always been to cover up what really was happening to little Maddie. Get people talking about "accidental death through neglect/the dogs", it does not sound anywhere near as bad as the reality.

It would be lovely if there was a wonderful outcome and Maddie is safe and well, but somehow, I very much doubt it. But I do think the McCanns have always sought to provide for the eventuality that she would be found and of course be found to have been seriously sexually abused.

"Rosiepops" and its ilk always used to insist that parents just do not harm children, it is always some lurking stranger. That is the mentality of a sick paedophile, millions of parents all over the world are sexually abusing their own children and killing them. That is the sad reality, children are far more at risk from their own family and their friends, i.e. David Payne than any stranger.

I am not going to sing the praises of the new Condemn as my niece has christened them, but the status of the McCann investigation remains just the same under the new administration, still very much a live investigation in UK. So much for all this silly talk about it was a labour party cover up to protect them!

The Portuguese would only be forced to re-open if the McCanns were actually telling the truth and Maddie was abducted by a stranger from Portugal, and we know that they are not! Given that it was the McCanns who were responsible, jurisdiction lays very firmly with their home force, Leicester Police and other major crime organisations in UK assisting. I do hope that without too much further delay we will see some progress, but given the Home Office describe the situation as a very delicate one, continue to wonder if Maddie may well be alive and they are seeking to recover her. Her safety would always come way ahead of any arrest of the McCanns and Co, that would be a secondary matter to recovering her and I am sure we would not have it any other way.

I have not received an email yet from SB to make her a member but hope that she does get in touch because her comments are very interesting and often do offer a different viewpoint and she would most certainly be welcome to become a proper member.

viv said...

Hiya Hope

and just picking up on what you said above re the Daily Express, Rosiepops etc. It was due to the abuse I suffered on there and being banned that caused me to open this blog and the non stop abuse just hardened my resolve to continue it.

As you say, had it not been for the determined efforts of Team McCann and their paid sycophants, we would have just forgotten all about it and put it down to yet another child, killed by her parents which was what we assumed at the time.


The McCann propaganda campaign in itself must surely go down in history as the most bizarre and senseless piece of behaviour guilty criminals ever indulged in to try and massage their reputations and further cashin. The fact that it has been such an unmitigated disaster and caused people to just keep on blogging about them, really is justice for their manipulative and sickening conduct.

In short, Kate and Gerry McCann are their own worst enemies. I have read the strategies of Clarence Mitchell, only scum need scum.

Wizard said...

Morning All,

Good Post Hope. I think on this website, although we have slightly different scenarios, at the end of the day we all know something is out of sync with the parents explanation of what happened on 3rd May. The more we look into this case the more clearer it becomes.

For me I’ve seen staging from the very outset and all I have learned since indicates a cover-up. I’m willing to admit, statistically anyway, there is a miniscule chance that the parent’s story could be correct but I very much doubt it. What always surprises me is how pro-McCanner’s refuse to believe, even statistically, they could be wrong. Were they there? No – so how can they be so certain the McCanns were not involved - the answer is of course they cannot.

Keep up the good work Viv one day the truth will be known.

Di said...

Hi all

I don't know whether you have seen this e-mail exchange between Antonella and an ex-policeman, it is worth a read.

How Antonella can say she has read the files then spout utter rubbish is beyond me. I would love to know why she is so loyal to McCanns.

The link was posted on Textusa.
link
<a href="

Di said...

Hi Wizard

I agree the truth will be known, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Team McCann have gone very quiet, could this be because they know the net is closing, the fund is drying up, Brian Kennedy has pulled his "forever" financial backing and more and more people are starting to take an interest in this case and just do not believe the McCann's fairytale not forgetting Murat/Tanner case. It's no wonder the trolls have upped their game.

viv said...

Hiya

Di, thanks for the link.

I don't think there is very much merit in challenging someone like Antonella because she is just paid to write copy and keep the paper away from Mr Justice Eady. The case is ongoing in UK and the papers are simply not allowed to comment on the real police investigation/the culpability of the McCanns.

As for the writer being an ex copper, I do not believe it:

"The dogs marked for both blood and cadaverine, not only there, but in other places suggestive of concealment and subsequent disposal of a body. The McCann's, and Clarence Mitchell’s, excuses for the findings of the dogs are just risible. "

The reality is both dogs found some microscopic traces of blood and any proper copper would know that is not evidence of Madeleine coming to any serious harm at all.

S.B. said...

Hello Viv.......,

My temporary banishment has given me time to digest your comments without further confusing the issue and I am delighted to say I now comprehend exactly what you are saying. It is however difficult to reconcile a balance between the actions of a paedophile and the resultant attitude they adopt in order to rationalize their actions, for me it is something too horrific to contemplate let alone accept as a fact. The human psyche can indeed be a very complicated thing to try and fathom and I wonder if every case of paedophilia stems from a dysfunctional childhood or whether some cases are nothing more than delusional.

For example, someone with a penchant for sexual deviation may well create fantasies to satisfy their desires and also act out their fantasies where possible but that does not necessarily indicate a problem childhood even though they may rationalize their behaviour in the same way as a paedophile. Because somebody creates a fantasy, especially sexual, does it always follow that they are creating an alternative world in which to live or is it only to satisfy their desires?

I think the point I was trying to make before is too far removed from the purpose of your blog for me to waste any further time on the subject. Just permit me to say in my own defence, offenders are too frequently provided with excuses for their conduct by the intervention of various organisations that think it their business to interfere with the law. Thus major problems that authorities are expected to combat are allowed to go unchallenged because for varying reasons an offender is not held accountable for their actions and this is what I meant by saying that it is dangerous to offer an offender extenuating circumstances for their behaviour .

End of subject............

S.B. said...

Hello Hope......,

Brilliant sentiments!

Although I do not know anything about the Rosiepops and Daily Express saga, I do agree that sometimes it seems futile to continue commenting when all has been said before. In the past I have many times thought that clan Mccann are not worth the effort, Madeleine is a forgotten commodity, there is too much animosity surrounding the case and then ~ up jumps another juicy morsel to tempt us into that ever decreasing circle they have created and there is always another titbit to lure us! So we are compelled to play their game ~ only not on their terms, those days are long since past. Apart from that it is important that we keep this alive, it is the least we can do to oblige the Mccanns when they have spent so much time and trouble keeping the case in the spotlight, I would hate to disappoint them!

However it is very silent at the moment ~ I wonder why?...........

Di said...

Hi Viv

Point taken about Antonella. I guess rather than an ex-policeman it was someone trying to be clever and catch Antonella out, although it would appear she thought he was who he claimed to be. It's so not like Antonella to give the courtesy of a reply, I wonder what changed her mind this time?

viv said...

Hiya SB and I am sure I speak for all of us when I say welcome on board as a fully fledged member.

I do not think you need to end the subject you raised because it is a very interesting one.

On the one hand you have people like me and Wiz who are both trained to try and understand human behaviour and what makes people do the most atrocious things. I think it is probably true to say that psychology and sociology can offer us cogent explanations.

But there is an educated body of opinion that suggests pscyhopaths are not actually socialised to become that way, they are born like it, there may be distinct problems with brain functioning etc.

But psychopaths are often very educated people as well and the law will generally hold them completely responsible for their actions because as you have pointed out they do know exactly what they are doing and they do know they are breaking the law.

Take Gerry McCann for example, he is cunning and utterly devious with an over inflated sense of self. I think what fascinates people like me and Wiz is what is it that made him that way.

I think are do gooders who will simply try to excuse offending behaviour, oh well they had a hard time when being brought up or whatever other reason there may be.

But certainly the way I was trained as a probation officer is not merely to try and understand the behaviour but to challenge it. Challenged the distorted thinking patterns, the minimisation and denial of the offence. Indeed, it is often said that seriously violent offenders (including sex offenders which is a form of violence) cannot begin to change unless and until they can develop insight into their own behaviour and thinking patterns and start to develop empathy for their victims.

Quite often serious offenders will go through a prison sentence refusing to work with psychologists or attend offending behaviour programmes because they simply do not accept there is anything wrong with them or they need or want to change. They are therefore categorised as very high risk offenders who the public need especial protection from due to their attitudes to their offending, lack of insight and unwillingness to change.

But it has also been said that cognitive behavioural programmes or anger management programmes can actually make psychopathic offenders even worse. It just teaches them to be even cleverer at masking their true self and hiding from those who seek to analyse them just how dangerous they are. It gives them an extra skillset to be even more cunning and manipulative.

So I think what I am trying to say is there are two issues really, one trying to understand why people commit horrific acts and secondly challenging that offender and properly assessing and managing the risk they present to the public, that is not about excusing their behaviour. Pscyhologists deeply believe in their ability to change human nature and behaviour, but sometimes I think the better approach is to accept that many offenders cannot and will not change, they are just plain dangerous. Serious sex offenders obviously come into that category.

If a man has once savagely raped a woman there is a very high risk he will do so again. Likewise with child molesters.

viv said...

I would just add that you see the same pattern with serious domestic violence offenders. It is not just one partner that winds them up and makes them violent, they are violent in very relationship they have with a woman. They are often so abusive they will bully the woman into believing it is all her fault. She does not iron his shirts correctly, cook the dinner quite right and has to be punished. The truth is these men like inflicting punishment and controlling.

viv said...

Apart from that it is important that we keep this alive, it is the least we can do to oblige the Mccanns when they have spent so much time and trouble keeping the case in the spotlight, I would hate to disappoint them!


Sometimes SB, it is just like you read my mind, that hint of sarcasm and humour really does get straight to the point.

As Paxman put it, they reaped a whirlwind. He also suggested to Gerry he uses the media just as and when it suits him, which Gerry being the man he is, just could not help but proudly snigger to. Just like he could not hold himself back from almost hitting Sandra Filgueiras. He leaves no room for doubt as to his true character really, does he! I can just imagine the little lecture from Clarence Mitchell after one of Gerry's disastrous performances, "you just undone in a few minutes all the good work I have put in on your behalf in the last 12 months"

Wizard said...

Completely off subject here but I see Capello has arranged for the England squad to play a friendly against Iceland at the weekend and next Wednesday their playing Tescos. LOL

Apologies - I couldn’t resist it must be the heat!

viv said...

Oh Lol Wiz, do you think they stand a chance, I mean will you be placing a bet on them to clean up here?

I mean their strategy is good, run around (were they running?) for 90 minutes like headless chickens and wait for the lucky break!


xxx

S.B. said...

Afternoon all......,

I've got the fidgets, there is a packet of cigarettes nearby as a constant reminder of what I am missing. Andy Murray is not equilibrium friendly. The live score against Nadal is lurking at the bottom of my screen, the suspense is too much for me. If Andy crashes-out of this one I swear I shall never support him again ~ at least not until the next time!

Just a quicky, I came across this quotation last night whilst reading Wilkie Collins 'The Fallen Leaves' ~

"A man who opens his doors and invites the public indiscriminately to come in, runs the risk of playing with inflammable materials and can never be sure at what time or in what direction they may explode".

Perfect similitude wouldn't you say?

viv said...

Hiya SB

I really admire your ability to look at a pack of cigs and not take one, that shows incredible strength of character which I could do with learning from you.

How long is it now since you had one of those filthy things?

Your Wilkie Collins quote is incredibly apt, Gerry's high risk strategy as he calls it certainly is playing with fire and we all await that inevitable explosion, coming from the UK direction, I am quite certain of that, but with a lot of help from our Portuguese friends. Try as he might, Gerry has not caused the divisions and hatred against the Police he sought to do. They work for a little angel, called Madeleine.

S.B. said...

Viv.....,

Thank you for those few kind words of welcome.

It is now three months since I last had a ciggie and I can assure you that I am the most undisciplined person I know. I do believe that the regular intake of Bach flower remedies made it easier (that’s another story) , I suddenly realised a while ago that I no longer needed to ‘light-up’ at every provocation so when circumstances necessitated a short abstinence it seemed stupid to start again. One major disadvantage is weight gain! Already being subjected to ‘middle age flump’ I can well do without it. Not that I eat any more than before, it’s all to do with the body retaining nutrients that smoking prevents.

I can't tell you how relieved I am to read your explanatory post, it is a consolation to know that your attitude towards serious offenders is that of mind probing rather than exonerating their behaviour. Your comment ~ 'Psychologists deeply believe in their ability to change human nature and behaviour'. I have always held a very negative opinion of psychologists; I think their only palpable advantage is being a listening ear, which I do believe can be advantageous for minor psychological conditions but absolutely useless for much else. My own limited experience of this area highlights two separate areas of professional malfunction a) the egotist only interested in making money and career development and therefore not in the least bit interested in the patient and b) the professional who is as barmy as the patient. Excuse my being flippant; I am not mocking the profession just speaking from my own experience. My mother used to work along side social workers and psychiatric auxiliaries; she always swore blind that they had more personal problems than their clients/patients.

Another area that I was tempted to encroach upon is that of in-house training. Initial study for a particular career is absolutely necessary of course but sometimes I think that additional training imposed upon staff can do more harm than good. It strips an individual of their character/personality and ultimately removes their ability for free thinking, intuition and instinct. I fail to see any benefit gained by encouraging individuals to concentrate more on ‘in-house’ codes of practice rather than invaluable experience achieved by being out in the field. I think workplace jargon is a good example of my point!

This may appear a trifle irrelevant but I am trying to emphasise the disparity that exists between intuition and enforced training that has no particular advantage in the practical working environment. This attitude interferes with an individual’s ability to undertake a job by contributing their own aptitude and personal skills. In other words they are cloned into blind, slavish obedience! Another subject that applies to many aspects of modern life but I have tried to restrict my point to the performance of professionals that are compelled to analyse the likes of Gerry Mccann………….

I'm rambling again. It's 20.20h and 28 C. on the balcony and I am sweltering!

Wizard said...

The working of the human brain is a great mystery. How can such a small object retain so many facts, makes so many decisions, be so creative etc when banks of computers would fail to even scratch the surface of the complexity of brain functions.

Why do chemical imbalances in the brain or the sum of past experiences affect the brain and cause disruption and emotional pain to its owner.

These are the questions that usual attraction clinical psychology students to the subject - the greatest mystery on earth that is still unsolved.

Certain medical conditions can only be picked up through psychological tests, carried out by psychologists who are able to understand the results and make a clinical diagnosis and suggest treatment.

Psychiatrists to me are doctors with poor exam results who have very limited training in the brain, human behaviour and emotions and again imo are only useful for prescribing drugs when necessary or even unnecessarily. However there are exceptions.

In this day an age of scattered family groupings not everyone has friends or family who will listen to their problems, let alone understand them or be supportive and proactive. Emotional problems can be debilitating and it makes sense to talk to someone who is completely objective and who most certainly would care about their fellow human beings otherwise why be in that profession. Money is only a secondary consideration for most if unfortunately not all.

Returning to another mystery the McCann case. I am beginning to wonder if the court action against Gonçalo Amaral by the McCanns has been dropped and this is why things have gone quiet lately – plotting their next move perhaps!

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

What is the difference between the English football team and Cinderella?
Cinderella wanted the ball! LOL

hope4truth said...

Morning All

Welcome as a fully fledged member SB x

Wiz god knows what is going on but it would be a shame if they did not go ahead and try and sue Amaral.... So many people are now aware of things that went on in PDL after the first court case another one could actualy find Madeleine.....

It is obvious from the games they have played over the last 3 years that is the last thing they want to happen (and as Gerry said "Find the body prove we killed her") so he must know it is hidden so well all the detectives in the world will never locate it or she is out there somewhere with the people they dumped her on......

Very intresting last time they were in court Gerry was seething and his mask slipped once again and the world witnessed a very angry man when he looked like he was going to punch Sandra...

Quick exit for Gerry and enter smug Fiona. What has Fiona Payne got to look so smug about? Her husband has been branded a Peadophile and there has not been a single word in his defence. I would imagine Social Services have a very close eye on her poor children......

A nutty pro poster on another site (with exclusive news from Rosiepops so oh it must be true) told us he was being sued by his Brother as he owed him money.... This made me laugh for many reasons but the sum talked about was a million and without trying to disrespect the Amaral family I was not aware they had so much money to lend.....

Apart from the legal fees and a new car I cant actually see what Amaral would spend a million on either?

If the money from his book had not been frozen he would have been able to defend himself such a bugger when there is not money left to pay for a defence team....

Often wonder if the powers that be are waiting for the fund to empty before pushing forward with their case against Kate and Gerry and will use the books from the fund to prove what fraudulant liars they are....

Oh well there is always legal aid and I know selling their house was never an option in raising money to find their daughter but I guess if they need to pay lawyers they will sell it in a hearbeat....

hope4truth said...

LOL WIZ x

viv said...

Hiya guys

Just going out so only a quick comment at the moment, will post more later.

I just wanted to say, lol to Wiz again! A bit of humour never did come amiss

I also wonder whether the McCanns have been forced to accept the reality with their one million pounds action against Goncalo, they must have been mad.

On their webpage they are now asking students to look for Maddie, the opposite to demanding money I think, it is all a question of listening to the Pr advice albeit a bit late

xx

hope4truth said...

Yes the Students for Madeleiene thing is very odd... They want so much information have a look below....

Why cant they simply say pleased download this photo and put it up where you are traveling to? Then again they even tried to charge for travel packs for people to put up for them when on holiday.... Wonder which photo they will use this time or have they a new one to confuse even more???

Support: Students for Madeleine

We know many students travel over the summer, take gap-year travel and also go places off the beaten path. We are launching a new initiative for students to help in the search for Madeleine.

If you would like to help with this project, please send the information below to: students_for_madeleine@findmadeleine.com.
Name

Email Address

Course/Degree

University/School

Member of Student Union?

Member of social networking sites (which ones)?

Are you travelling this year?

Where are you going?

When?

hope4truth said...

Actualy reading that again it looks like you are supposed to feel greatful if they accept you as part of the campaign???

I would gladly put up a poster of Maddie if I could print one off (you never know if she was given away someone may have seen her) but I am damned if I would pay them a penny to do so.... would happily use my Ink and Paper to print off a download but pay for a travel pack not bloody likely....

Have not heard how low the fund is for a while which IMHO can mean one of two things....

they have lots of money comming in and dont want to let people know it is ok to stop giving for a while....

Or more likely they have finaly realised that their cooked books could cost them their freedom a damn site quicker than nabbing them for whatever they did to their daughter

hope4truth said...

Hmmmmmm just been reading the McCann files and Lorraine Kelly wrote a piece for the sun asking people to take a travel pack on holiday with them when going away... She has a lable on her luggage which gets a lot of attention she does not mention that to have the pleasure of having one costs £1.75 not alot of money but with computer genius these days posters and luggage lables can be printed off for next to nothing....

Wonder what picture is on these? Amazing that 3 years later they are still confusing the public with not one but 3 age progressed pictures of Maddie and so many varying images of her as a child (now complete with Chav Maddie the paedophiles dream) how any of us are supposed to relax on holiday without phoning the hotline every 5 minutes to report yet another child who could look like Maddie....

Does Lorraine not think it is odd that the McCanns never bothered to search for their child? Does she think the photos of them on their daughters 4th Birthday 9 days after they told the world that because of their neglect she had been taken by peadophiles or the many other happy snaps and odd comments from them are not odd?

Will Lorraine be interviewing Karen Mathews when she is set free and offering a sholder to cry on? If not why not after all Shannon was found alive and well Karen was only copying the McCanns as even in her feble and stupid mind she could see right through them as well....

Will Lorraine ever think about a little girl who we have been brainwashsed into beliveing was neglected night after night and allowed to vanish into hell whilst her parents laughed it up and spent her fund on wages and their own defence and spin....

No doubt it Maddie is only a child what the hell does she matter lets stick to worshiping child neglectors and welcome Baby Ps Mother to the sofa....

Wizard said...

GM says:-

“We know many students travel over the summer, take gap-year travel and also go places off the beaten path. We are launching a new initiative for students to help in the search for Madeleine.”

Does that include psychology students and criminal psychology students? LOL

A good subject for a final dissertations.

hope4truth said...

That is why they want to know so much they cant have pesky phsycology students getting too close and analysing them can they...

I was reading back to the begining of the blog the other day and came across the post about joining up to help the McCanns French Connection and diffrent groups cant find it now but it very odd....

It still astounds me that Students, Holidaymakers, and other members of the general public are all so important in helping find Maddie...

Yet the 9 Adults on that holiday which shockingly include her parents are not willing to help find her in any way that does not suit their agenda...

Lets face it if we were on holiday and nothing to do with the T9 but were around on that night who out of us would say "sorry cant be arsed to come back and do a recostruction let the child rot in hell"

Which is exactly what her parents and friends have allowed to happen if she was really taken....

How do they sleep at night shame on them....

S.B. said...

Hi all.......,

Students for Madeleine? What a bleeping audacity! What program manager? Would this be a fund administrator, a Mccann, a Clarence Mitchell, a private detective or what?

Requesting an individuals personal details? As you say Hope, why not continue plugging the poster download? Is this another example of Geralds distorted sense of humour? - Certainly he can't be serious.

Anyway, who are these students supposed to be looking for? I don't think any of us have a true image of the real Madeleine - only a gallery of pictures show-cased to confuse the populace!

Di said...

Hi all

Hi S.B Welcome, I had no idea you were not a full member.

Totally agree, who are we looking for, what does Madeleine really look like?

I wonder if these students have been targeted because they travel far and wide during gap years, hence many more Madeleine sightings.

The trouble is, I don't think Kate & Gerry realise that most people are wise now, and apart from Antonella, take these sightings with a pinch of salt.

S.B. said...

Wizard.......,

I realise you are politely pointing out the difference between psychology and psychiatry which I stupidly confused in my post. I ask that you excuse my apparent ignorance; this is a subject that I am not conversant with in any detail so I must trust to you and Viv to guide me in the right direction. I was certainly not intending to cast aspersions on the profession.

Having said that, in the light of your comments do you believe it possible for a psychologist to penetrate the human mind to a degree whereby it becomes beneficial to an individual suffering with a serious mental disorder, or is the interest and work purely academic? I understand you to say that 'certain' medical conditions can only be picked up through psychological tests etc. but you don't clarify whether you are referring to physical conditions (perhaps psychosomatic) or a state of severe mental debility such as psychopathic tendencies. Your reference to the impenetrable mystery of the human brain indicates to me that the more serious mental disturbances are unfathomable in spite of years of study by professionals in the field. So where do you draw the line between studies and research that is advantageous to the human race and that which is undertaken for educative reasons only?

I can understand the fascination for such a subject but both you and Viv are able to apply your knowledge in practical terms which to me appears contradictory. Or does your knowledge and experience of the human psyche contribute to your respective professions and thus enable you to perform more effectively?

Di said...

Hi Hope

I have always wondered how the people of Rothley react when they see Kate & Gerry. We have been told by Clarence that everyone is extremely kind and know they are innocent. Kate told us that people keep coming up to her to wish her well. Yet we have neighbours in their small cul-de-sac selling their homes and the video of the Rothley women vilifying them.

We know from Kate's mother that she does not run anymore. Is Kate hiding herself away with the files, It would not surprise me at all. Gerry I would imagine has other more pressing problems.

S.B. said...

Evening Di......,

Thanks for the welcome!

I think Kate and Gerry are totally aware of what people think of them. I also believe that the hours spent apparently trawling through the PJ files were actually spent trawling through the various blogs in order to gauge public opinion - and still do!

Their problem is that they know they are being investigated for their culpability in a very serious crime but it has become imperative that they continue the masquerade that they have created in a desparate attempt to avoid justice. So maybe we will be subjected to more ridiculous sightings during the summer months, it wouldn't be surprising given their track record.

I had to chuckle at your comment to Hope - 'Kate does not run anymore'! I presume that be a physical run and not a metaphoric run!!!

S.B. said...

Mail Online - Sunday 4.7.2010

Kate and Gerry Mccann to meet Home Secretary Theresa May in a bid to re-open Maddie case............

Here we go again! It's enough to drive you to drink. I suppose the timing has been carefully calculated ~ England out of the world cup, Andy Murray crashed out of Wimbledon and the silly season well on the way. What else is left to fill the gaps?

Another vain attempt by clan Mccann to get their grubby little mitts on the investigation files........... Amidst all this latest waffle another classic Mccann style cliche lurks ~ The couple have spearheaded a high-profile search to find their daughter but have told of their frustration that no police force is actively looking for Madeleine"...........

Tell me Mr And Mrs Mccann, what high profile search would that be? Or more to the point, what search would that be of any description? What exactly is meant by "not actively searching"? Are we therefore to presume that the police are 'inactively searching'? ~ Ah! of course that is something you would know all about is it not?............

Until the next time keep up the dellusion!

hope4truth said...

Hello SB

I would be surprised if the McCanns want anyone looking into this and reopening the investigation.

If this is reopened the fund and their detectives will come under the investigation and that would be devestating for them...

Clarence cant be too happy either he has a cosy job with the government now god help him if the truth comes out and it is obvious he will take any cash on offer even if it means spinning the life of a child down the drain whilst defending the indefensable....

If people know how much he has spun a 3 year old child out of the picture no one will buy any of his spin on behalf of a political party...

Di said...

Hi all

I thought the PJ were the only people who could re-open the investigation? Apologies if I am wrong.

Is this not just another spin on the McCanns wanting a review of the case on their terms.

Hi S.B.

Lol, yes a physical run.

Di said...

Off for a while but check out the Sky News report on the McCanns.

Last paragraph

Money raised by the Madeleine Foundation has been put towards hiring private investigators to continue the search.

Oh dear Sky have surely got that wrong!!

S.B. said...

Viv / Wizard.........,

It occurs to me that you guys have a difficult task analysing personality disorders but I guess that makes your profession more challenging and rewarding.

I can appreciate that there exists a number of psychological traits that can be recorded as comprising similar or identical elements, and can therefore be compartmentalized into specific known mental conditions but there must also be a multitude of personality disorders that cannot be thus identified. Or does it follow that every aspect of mental health can be categorized by precedent.

Take as a simple example a youngster with anti-social propensities, normally excused by society because he/she emanates from an inner city area or an area of urban deprivation, a dysfunctional home life, estranged parents etc. Another child can come from a similar environment and yet show completely different personality traits, the former possibly with criminal tendencies and the latter not. Perhaps this aspect has no connection with your profession, your purpose only being to penetrate the mind of any one individual in any one situation.

Take for example a Gerry Mccann. Can you analyse and consequently determine his personality traits simply by comparison or would it be necessary to evaluate him as an isolated individual? I think probably the latter, although I guess it is possible to form an educated assessment without personal contact.

It was my intention to elaborate somewhat on my point but I think you will get the gist!

S.B. said...

Di.....,

Whoops - Sky News! I missed that, it really does say that money raised bt the Madeleine Foundation has been put towards hiring private investigators.

TB's five minutes of fame at last -he must be delighted! LOL! If I were he I think I would emphatically deny it!

viv said...

Hi SB

I am retired as a Probation Officer.

I think there is a distinction to be made between psychological disorders and mental health problems but often a cross over. For example depression can often be better treated by cognitive behavioural therapy provided by a psychologist as opposed to anti depressants/a psychiatrist.

Personality disorder is divided into many different types and some people are diagnosed as suffering from more than one. These included anti social personality or psychopathy, narcissism, borderline PD, obsessive compulsive etc.

Serious mental health conditions such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder (manic depression) need the drugs that a pscyhiatrist can prescribe and as Wiz says there is nothing more complex than the human brain or just why it malfunctions or indeed why some people are brought up in the most awful circumstances but have the personality to withstand that and grow up normal, but others become deeply disturbed and develop serious personality disorder. Maybe as many experts now think, some people are just born like it and home circumstances just make that much worse.

viv said...

As for Gerry, he just ticks an awful lot of boxes, purely on what we can observe without actually meeting him. Kate appears to have a totally different personality style and IMO, to an extent, is controlled by him.

viv said...

I am sure TB will be delighted with being famous at last, raising money for the McCanns private investigators, surely his greatest ambition in life?

viv said...

"Is this not just another spin on the McCanns wanting a review of the case on their terms."

Absolutely spot on IMO, Di.

They were corresponding with Alan Johnson from 2009, demanding a review with certain Portuguese personnel removed/ Leicester Police. Now they are doing the same with Theresa May.

IMO, what the McCanns are trying to say is put all of the evidence together and there are far more sightings of Madeleine, spooky characters than there is evidence against us and so on balance, we should be considered innocent and absolved of any blame to clear their names. Something they used to admit was very important to them. Of course it is, until such time as they can achieve that name clearing from official sources, they cannot make Maddie the Movie, the book etc etc ad nauseum.

Kate cannot even hold her head up at parents evenings....

S.B. said...

Hi..........,

The Mccanns only have to engineer another ficticious press release and the world responds accordingly. The flood gates open and letters/e-mails start flying about from all corners of the globe ~ understandably mostly from Portugal and the U.K.

I fail to understand what anyone expects to achieve by corresponding with the likes of Terresa May when information such as this does the rounds of the British press and has little or nothing to substantiate its validity. I am sure many of us have our suspicions but we do not know who originated this latest verbiage, nor indeed the previous examples of much the same content. I do not believe that anything can be achieved by contacting the Home Secretary or any other official, it only indicates an individuals inclination to accept as factual everything written in the press ~ which we all know to be unreliable!

A renowned personage such as TB would of course glory in the prospect of personal contact with such an important government representative but I think he be an exception to every rule and cannot therefore be trusted to lead by example.

No need panic everytime something new hits the press. Just kick your shoes off, relax, pour out the Martini and wait.............