20 Aug 2010

WHAT ABOUT THOSE SECURITY BLINDS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE PATIO KATE AND GERRY?

Here the police are clearly asking this witness who had so recently stayed in the apt some very pertinent questions to the investigation and the claims of Kate and Gerry McCann. 

The security to that particular apartment was poor, the exterior light did not even work.  They wanted the shutter that went over the outside of the patio doors to the rear fixed immediately because they could see that would be a serious security issue, and it was!   In their initial statements Kate claims the patio door at the rear was left open to facilitate checking of the children, she makes no mention of what happened about the security blind on the outside of those doors.  She makes no mention of the children being able to fall ten feet or so down into the garden below if they had exited those doors and walked out onto the patio.   Madeleine was nearly four, the twins were two years and three months, in my experience all of these children would have been able to get out of their cots/beds and even the apartment, if what the McCanns claim is actually true.  There is no handle on the exterior of the patio door.  It would have to have been left ajar to be able to open it from the outside as Mat and Gerry demonstrated on the Channel 4 documentary, then just grabbing and sliding it further back to open sufficient to walk through.  It is clearly not meant to be used as an exterior entrance to the apartment, security blinds are provided.  Did the McCanns feel leaving their children was so important they could just forget their security in this way?  In his initial statement, Gerry McCann claims they both checked the children by going around to the front of the apartment, using their front door key.  The normal way to enter the apartment by the intended secure and locked door.  But in his further grilling, 6 days later on 10 May, he claims he was quite mistaken about that.  He actually claims that he does not remember if he locked the front door and that he was wrong, he and Kate did not use the front door as he had previously claimed, the very next day after Maddie's disappearance, oh no, now he decides they used the rear patio door as the more cunning Kate had originally stated.    Would Gerry not have been absolutely certain which door they used, the very next day, and would he not have been wanting to make sure he gave the police very accurate information to assist them in working out how anyone could have gotten into the apartment and abducted Madeleine as they so adamantly claimed? 

Do the McCanns seriously expect us to believe they just ignored the security shutter on the rear patio door and left it up and the patio door open every night so they could check their kids?   Why was Kate telling Mr Woolfall that Maddie likely just wandered off but then denying it to the police and in her first interview with Jane Hill?  When anyone looks at these facts alone, how could they seriously believe the McCanns to be innocent in the disappearance of Madeleine.  The contradictory and astounding lies and admitted serious negligence this couple were telling the police from the very outset? 

The scent of blood was clearly noted by the dogs in apartment 5a.  The police are here wanting to see if there is another source for that blood smell, Ms Hughes says her partner may have cut himself shaving but she does not remember this.  In his rogatory, Martin Grime indicates that Keela purely locates blood, Eddie will locate corpses and as part of that process may also smell human blood.  It is a myth to just keep on insisting he smelt dead body, he may have done, but it is just as likely he smelt what Keela could smell, blood, particularly given he was mainly indicated in the exact same spot as Keela and where traces of blood were indeed found but which did not provide a good match to Madeleine's.  I remain upset that ghoulish people continue to deny this child her human rights to be considered a missing person until such time as there is compelling evidence of her death.  At this time, so far as the information within the public domain is concerned, there is no such compelling evidence of her death in that apartment.  I remain convinced that it is wholly wrong to just right this child off as dead when there is the slightest chance she may still be alive.  It is simply not clear what the McCanns did with her, other than they were involved in lying about her disappearance and there is only one reason they would do that. 

The police then go on to address the issue of whether there were thieves operating in the area, i.e. anyone who on the offchance may have noted there was more on offer to steal from the McCanns apartment than mere electronic gadgets and cash.  She answers this very firmly in the negative and yet, the McCanns have pursued a merciless campaign of insisting the Algarve is dangerous for children, paedophiles in the area are likely to snatch your child.  This has clearly had a serious negative impact upon peoples livelihoods, from the humblest cleaner who would obviously need that job, thanks to Kate and Gerry, as we saw on film, they lost them.  Meanwhile they are not content with fleecing the public/the rich with donations of about £2M, oh no, they then embark on a sue fest to amass yet more cash because people have the nerve to suggest they were involved.  I am going to continue to do more than suggest, they were involved, but I would not be so foolish as to insist I know exactly what they did with her.  I may have evidence of their lies and obvious involvement, but disposing of her dead body? No way can anyone sensibly make this  claim.  If you look at the information that Leicester Police intend to keep confidential whilst they continue to investigate "those behind the disappearance of Madeleine McCann" it is clear they are by no means certain they are looking for a dead Madeleine.  They have statistics of "sightings", intelligence from various agencies, correspondence with the Serious and Organised Crime Agency.  This was a serious and organised crime against little Maddie, organised by her own parents. 

I hope that one day they reap the rewards of the wickedness they have demonstrated to all three of their little children, but most especially little Madeleine whose fate at their hands, we simply do not know, but must surely by now, fear the very worst. 

Viv x





5A OCCUPANT 29 APRIL 08



40 to 41 Witness statement of June Hughes (former holidayer in Apartment 5 A) 2008.04.29

05-CARTAS ROGATORIA 5 Pages 40 to 41

cr5_40



cr5_41



LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE SQUAD

WITNESS TESTIMONY OF JUNE HUGHES

Occupation: Surgical Assistant



This statement, consisting of three pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have willfully states in it anything I know to be false or do not believe to be true.



Date: 29 April 2008

Signature:



I am the above referenced person and live at the address previously given to this police.



On the 14th of April of 2007 my partner Carlo A'AMROSIO and I were on holiday in Praia da Luz, Portugal. We have booked a reservation with Thomas Cook and were to stay in the Mark Warner Ocean Club resort.



Carlo and I travelled to the Glasgow airport directly to Faro.

When we arrived at the resort, we were given apartment 5A. There were still cleaning personnel in there when we arrived. They allowed us to enter. We checked and realized that we had not been given a key to the apartment and Carlo went to the reception to collect one.



I found the apartment very good. We arrived on Saturday and this night noticed that the blinds on the patio side door which gave way to the pool zone did not close. It appeared that someone had lifted them too much and the mechanism did not dislodge in order to shut them (page1). We reported this abnormality to the reception that same night. We reported this immediately because we found that the apartment could be at risk if it was not possible to close the door blinds. The apartment was also vulnerable for the fact that the entryway light (side of the street) was hanging and did not function. This made the entryway very dark. It was off from the street with a small parking zone between the street and the apartment.



Even though we communicated this issue of the blind, we did not expect them to rapidly address the issue. We were surprised when on Sunday morning a functionary came to fix the blind. The patio door blind was on the outside of the patio door. We used the principal entrance (next to the street) and would lock the patio door from the interior.



During our stay I do not remember having cut or hurt myself. It is possible that Carlo cut himself whilst shaving but I don't remember this.



Nothing was taken from our apartment and I did not notice anything suspect during our stay. I noticed that the gardeners would work on the garden close to the apartment 'pool-side 'three mornings (page 2) during our stay. The cleaning personnel would come very day.



I remember that the key to the apartment was a bit unusual. It was round and with cut segments. We noticed that the cleaning personnel knocked on the door once and would then enter in the apartment. In this sequence, we left the door always closed with the key in the lock. The next morning, the cleaning woman knocked on the door and entered normally independent of the door being locked with the key in the interior of the lock.



As far as I recall, the living woman sofa (to the right of the entry across the patio door) was slightly removed from the wall, around 60 cm.



We were not accompanied by children to Praia da Luz but noticed that the children seemed to have free access to the restaurant and were always very welcome. We would normally eat in different restaurants when we holidayed but would breakfast in the apartment and if I am not mistaken, lunched in our apartment.



We slept in the principal room where the blind was initially broken. We never took any food in the Tapas Bar. I do not know Gerry or Kate McCann and only heard of them after their daughter went missing. We returned on the 21st of April of 2007.



This statement is made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.

109 comments:

viv said...

Of interest here also, the police are seemingly addressing the question of the positioning of the sofa, given the dogs clearly did indicate for blood immediately behind it.

Ms Hughes states it was placeda about 60 cm or two feet for non decimal people away from the wall. Is that enough of a gap for a small child to fall into and as Goncalo feels well yes it is. But the McCanns simply did not have sufficient time to properly dispose of her body and effect a clean up that night prior to raising the alarm.

I find the suggestion that Gerry McCann would have walked through the streets with his dead daughter and hid her on the beach, then called in the police and demanded tracker dogs simply absurd.

viv said...

The police are also gaining evidence within the UK from this woman that there is no reason why the children could not have eaten with their parents at restaurants, as she says, children were always welcome, but not it would seem to Kate and Gerry McCann, who wanted to fill their days playing sport wit their kids dumped in the creche and their nights eating without them, with their kids dumped in bed and left in an apartment, they say, where they ignore locks and security doors even. What vile people!

viv said...

The McCanns story was so utterly incredible and contradictory, it can be seen they even felt obliged to start telling immediate lies to their friends:



Jon Corner was quoted in the Daily Telegraph of 07 May 2007:

'Jon Corner, a close friend of Mrs McCann and godparent of the twins, said she telephoned him in the middle of the night distraught.

He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'

"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage."


But of course, as the first attending GNR guards noted, there was absolutely no sign of any kidnapping, no damage, no breakin, hence they assumed Maddie just wandered off and did not seal the flat immediately as a crime scene.

An inside job, well too right it was!

docmac said...

So Viv

Are you suggesting Carlo did, in fact, cut himself shaving and then started cartwheeling all over the apartment, continuing with some gymnastics on the verandah and in the garden.

Then he put Kate's clothes on, smeared his chin all over the Renault and, as an encore, wiped his still bleeding face with Cuddle Cat and then disposed of same in the very villa the McCanns would move to after leaving 5A?

docmac said...

Let's also remember Keela is used to confirm whether the odour alerted to by Eddie is blood.

Keela did NOT alert in a few very important areas where Eddie had alerted strongly. The bedroom in 5A, Kate and Madeleine's clothing and Cuddle Cat.

It's simple maths to me, as it is to Mr Grime. Eddie minus Keela equals cadaver.

Wizard said...

Cadaver dogs alert to the smell of a dead body, of course, but will also alert to where a cadaver has been laying even though it has been removed from the scene - a trained dog will pick up the residual scent that a corpse gives off.

The cadaver does not have to be laying in situ for hours but only minutes for the dog to pick up a scent from it. There need not be corpse blood traces or corpse bodily fluids present for the dog to pick up the scent and alert.

The cadaver dog alerted to where a scent of a cadaver was found (perhaps laying of hidden for a short while) that had been exposed to cadaver odour not cadaver blood/fluids or just blood full stop.

Hence the suggestion that KM’s occupation brought her into contact with 6 dead people prior to the holiday – suggesting the scent the dog were picking up came from this source. Difficult for KM to explain what the scent was doing in the flowerbeds though perhaps she was in the habit of falling over drunk in them before entering apartment 5A after her nightly sessions wearing no doubt corpse-contaminated clothing she had previously worn to work.

Viv you say it would be difficult to image GM walking through the streets with his dead child. Well desperate and daring measures are needed in exceptional circumstances and this is certainly a circumstance in point. Taking MBM to the beach has gained ground due to the Smith’s sighting but may be this wasn’t GM and it’s just an unintentional red herring.

The McCanns changing explanation of doors, windows and shutters imo are just modifications which time and logic have allowed them to manufacture to make their story gel more smoothly.

The Portuguese tracker dogs were brought in by the police and did pick up a scent but lost it, if I remember correctly either by the church next to the beach or the supermarket. This suggests to me that ‘bundleman’ is fiction, as a scent should have been picked up along the road at the top by the Portuguese tracker dogs. The findings of these dogs presumes that her parents gave them the correct scent to follow in the first place which we do not know for sure.

I always thought wherever Madeleine was hidden initially was not the most important thing as whatever happened to her could be explained away by a stranger abductor having caused it. The important factor was to remove her from the apartment to suggest an abductor had taken her and what happened afterwards could be blamed on him. The body was not found initially and I would think a more detailed plan was hatched and the body moved and disposed of more permanently at a later date to be 100% sure there could be no forensic link between what happened to her and her parents.

S.B. said...

Wizard......,

Excellent post!

Let us not forget that 'cuddle cat' was endowed with super-cat powers. With great dexterity it could fly from a bed to a high shelf without so much as being noticed. Little minx!

And also don't forget it went on home visits with Dr. Kate to assist with certifying victims of a death epidemic.

I think we under estimate the powers of 'cuddle cat'!

viv said...

Hiya all

Doc, I am not suggesting Carlo bled all over the flat and I think that is more than plain. What I am pointing out is that LP were looking for a possible reason why the dogs alerted in the flat, other than the obvious reason.

We were told all the way through until September that it was believed an abduction was more likely. But we are also told, and it must be more than obvious, the McCanns were prime suspects from the very first moments. I think some people fail to see what could or maybe should be deduced from that.

hope4truth said...

Hello

I have read everything in the press and on forums have poured through the translations of the Rogs and debated (well tried to debate and been told to shut up as I am a jealous Nasty Bitch who is not fit to have children) errrr pot calling kettle black... Buuuutttt

Having just re read some of the first phone calls home and their friends and family must know they are lying (how can you say the shutters are smashed when they are very clearly not a door is locked but is then proved not to have been?)...

All I can say if it was me telling such blatent lies when trying to convince the world my child is in a peado hell hole I would have no family near me and not a single friend left....

They would all be screaming WHY DID YOU LIE TO ME WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO YOUR CHILD AND IF YOU REALLY BELIVE SHE IS WITH A PEADOPHILE AND IS FINDABLE WHY DONT YOU DO A RECONSTRUCTION ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS AND SPEND THE FUND ON SEARCHING?

I am proud to have the friends and family who would turn their back on me if I told a single lie if my child was missing as they care for my daughters and would know she needed all the help she could get and if I had harmed them in any way they would be on the side of my child....

viv said...

Eddie is not a "cadaver dog", he is a "victim recovery dog". In seeking to locate victims he is trained to pick up on the aroma of either a corpse or the blood of a victim.

Keela is a crime scene investigator, she will only alert to the actual presence of blood. It is NOT her role to check the work of Eddie at all Doc, she is more of a specialist dog.

viv said...

Hiya Hope, that is also the major issue for me, it is nothing to do with the dogs. It is to do with a couple of parents who told wicked lies about the disappearance of their daughter and failed to c-operate with the police. There is no need to try and pretend you are more clever than the PJ and know exactly what happened really is there?

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

It will be their undoing in the end that and the fund....

When you look back at just the things they have said it all falls apart their behaviour is just not that of parents of a missing child...

They put their selves all holiday and when they say their child is inthe depths of hell they still put themselves first and if they are telling the truth that is totaly unforgivable...

docmac said...

No, Viv . He is an ENHANCED victim recovery dog.

Martin Grime says thus:

The dog has also been trained to identify 'dead body' scent contamination where there is no physically retrievable evidence, due to scent adhering to previous material such as carpet or the upholstery in motor vehicles.

And this:

The dog may be used to screen clothing, vehicles or property in a suitable environment. This is completed in a scent discrimination exercise where controls may be included to increase assurity.

And this:

In six years operationai deployment in over 200 cases the dog has never alerted to meat based foodstuffs. The dog has never alerted to 'road kill' Alerts given by the dog where no obvious human remains are found are supported by forensic evidence and anecdotal witness accounts.

And this:

'Dead body scent' cannot be removed by cleaning. The compounds adhere to surfáces. The scent can be 'masked' by bleach and other strong smelling odours but the dog's olfactory systern is able to separate odour and identify
specific compounds' and mixes to cellular level.


And there is much more. Keela does the blood discrimination work. Eddie smells death.

docmac said...

And just let me say this, Viv

Gerry was never concerned with Keela's findings. He went ballistic when shown the video of Eddie alerting to the Renault.

He then, of course, made the idiotic mistake of allowing his attorneys to cite the Zapata case as to the unreliability of EVRDs. And we all know what happened there, eh?

S.B. said...

Viv and all......,

At present as over the past three years it is impossible to form an accurate assessment of how, when where Madeleines fate was determined. The obviously intentional lies, contradictions and discrepancies would prevent even the police from carrying out a conclusive investigation so for the general public to speculate is impossible.

The various statements known to the public prevent us from even concluding exactly when Madeleine disappeared.

The police where severely criticized for not sealing-off the apartment immediately but we must never forget that the Mccanns and their entourage had already trashed the apartment, destroying vital evidence, before the arrival of the police.

One would think as professionals in the medical field they would know all about frensics and the need to preserve a crime scene unpolluted. Perhaps they did.....

docmac said...

Eddie is always the first to be brought onto a site. Once he has discerned the odour that he knows so well, it’s Keela’s turn to go into action, on the lookout for the slightest whiff of blood. The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it’s probably there that the death occurred.

docmac said...

The case of Amanda Edwards, reported missing, is also very impressive. The police, who conducted a search of her ex-partner’s home, found small bloodstains there, but no trace of a body. The dog, who was brought in for the examination of the man’’s vehicle, alerted to cadaver odour on the tools stored in the boot (a shovel, a level and a compactor). The police went to the building site where the suspect had worked a few days before and discovered the body, buried in a garage. The murderer had made efficient use of his tools to carry out his task.

It’s also thanks to the help of the dogs that the case of Charlotte Pinkley, a missing British woman, who had been imprisoned by her ex-partner, was resolved. The police requested the help of the specialist dog team to try to find the young woman’s body. Eddie picked out a place where the abductor had provisionally left his victim. In the surrounding area, the investigators found the button from a dress that had belonged to Charlotte. That clue exposed the murderer, who ended up showing the police the place where he had hidden the body.

docmac said...

In the immense underground car park, Martin commands Eddie to begin the examination. The dog then intensively sniffs each of the first three cars, at tyre level, the side doors and the boot, then all round. When he gets close to the fourth, the McCanns’ Renault, he becomes agitated, raises his nose while running around, as if he is trying to locate the source of the odour he has detected. Martin tells him to stop running around and concentrate on the search. Finally, he starts to growl, bark and wanting to bite the bottom of the driver’s door and the boot. The odour is coming from inside. The PJ’s experts examine the vehicle for hours with the help of Keela. At dawn, traces of human blood are found in places indicated by the female dog: the key and the boot. The harvested samples are packed, then sent to a forensic laboratory in Birmingham, Great Britain.

docmac said...

And the answer is here, of course. But you have to be a member nowadays.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic197-10.html

docmac said...

SB

One would think as professionals in the medical field they would know all about frensics and the need to preserve a crime scene unpolluted. Perhaps they did.....

How perceptive you are...

viv said...

Doc, I think you are still missing the basic point. Eddie alerts to smells, in Grime's own words he will also alert to the smell of human blood.

Keela on the other hand will ONLY alert to actual blood, not just the smell of it. Therfore your argument just falls apart.

It is wrong to insist a little girl died in that apartment on nothing more than Eddie may have smelt corpse or he may have smelt blood, which clearly he did, as he did alert to where Keela actually found human blood. There was no clear evidence this was Madeleine's blood and even if it was, that is not evidence of a corpse.

Why do you just ignore the evidence of Mr Menezes at the hearing where Goncalo sought to overturn the injunction made? He very clearly states there is a 50:50 chance of Madeleine being alive and he also very clearly states the McCanns could have been charged with kidnapping and trafficking Madeleine. There is also evidence, in a number of respects, this was a premeditated crime.

viv said...

When I was at law school Doc, I can remember being challenged, where is your legal authority for that statement:

"The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it’s probably there that the death occurred. "

I would make the same challenge to you, just where did you get that from?

viv said...

Thanks SB

I think it is reasonable to speculate from the email exchange between DC Marshall and Ricardo Paiva in October 2007 on a number of issues.

Firstly, they believe the Paynes are telling lies and were involved in the disappearance and the coverup.

Secondly, they believe that Madeleine disappeared in the late afternoon/early evening, prior to the McCanns going out that night.

I find it unfortunate that people forget this is a real little girl and insist on continuing the lurid speculation, and that is all it is, contained in the press in September 2007 and cannot seem to move on from that viewpoint.

Keela found microspopic traces of blood behind the sofa and I believe in the hire car, that is all.

I entirely agree with you the McCanns and their team would have been entirely forensically aware. For anyone to suggest otherwise would be like lapping up every word of Clarence Mitchell or Alistair Campbell as the gospel truth. The simple fact is that low intellect parents who watch TV would immediately have thought do not touch a thing, call the police. But Gerry tells us they were all trying the shutter, words f//ing fail me!

viv said...

WE also learn that certainly by 10 May, Gerry had decided his story was he left both the front and the rear doors open for anyone to just walk in.

That was his way of explaining the inexplicable, how some stranger got in there and stole his daughter. But unfortunately for Gerry he has been blasting his big mouth off to a selection of relatives and friends that same night, they jemmied the shutter and window to get it.

We also learn that rather than being out searching for Madeleine, Gerry, Payne and O'Brien sat desperately working out a "timeline" prior to the arrival of the PJ, as the police would call it or anyone for that matter, "getting their stories straight". Their priority was to impress a system of checking but with 30 minute gaps, just short enough to avoid a negligence charge but just long enough to allow some predator to enter and steal Maddie.

But there is overwhelming evidence the twins were drugged and so we can assume Maddie was also. Gerry admits that, claiming it must have been the predators. Kate took them all in at 6 that night. Anyone who cannot see roughly what went on here and what it was then planned to look like...

Maddie had previously cried for one hour and fifteen minutes, so as Mr Menezes pointed out, they knew they were lying about their system of checks. They also knew there was no way Maddie could have just been silently carried out of that apartment without protesting, unless of course she knew her carrier or she was drugged.

And as for Martin Smith, talk about a knight in shining armour. Gerry was intent on telling the world paedophiles snatched Maddie from her bed that she never even got put into on a cold night. The PJ were not having it, they simply did not find Jane Tanner and her egghead man the least bit credible. So, a few weeks later, up pops Martin Smith, ah well I saw the abductor with Madeleine, then the PJ did what Gerry wanted to boost his Fund, publicised an abduction by a stranger.

I will continue to see Gerry for the manipulative and wicked scheming liar that he is.

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

Ah the dogs!

“Doc, I think you are still missing the basic point. Eddie alerts to smells, in Grime's own words he will also alert to the smell of human blood.”

Only Viv if it comes from a cadaver though! Eddie has been trained to detect cadaver odour and is always brought first into a crime scene according to Grimes – Keela the human blood detector dog second. If Eddie were trained to alert to blood from a live person as well as a dead one, plus any evidence of a cadaver odour how would he indicate the difference to his handler? Well he couldn’t.

Following your argument unless Grimes is another person cashing in on the McCann case why charge the Portuguese for the utilisation of two dogs when one would do.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one Viv but my absolute last words on the dog issue is the dog cannot indicate whose cadaver odour he is scenting and I think we agree on that. Clarence tells us there is an innocent explanation for everything. Eddie was either alerting to a)the odour from KM’s contaminated clothing after visiting 6 dead patients before leaving for her holiday, b) the pj placing body parts around the apartment to frame the McCanns c) a stranger abductor killed the child and hid her in various parts of the apartment before taking her away. Or not so innocently from the parents point of view the child’s parent/s or someone known to them, found temporary hiding places in the apartment until they formulated a plan and hid the body.

To push KM’s clothing as the source of the corpse odour would mean that Madeleine statistically anyway could still be alive and the McCann theory of a stranger abductor correct or for that matter an abductor of any kind.

Something I do not always consider when I comment about this case is the parent position.

If we speculate and say they are guilty of knowing exactly where M is, the pj shelving the case is a very unsatisfactory situation from their point of view. The shelving of the case, if they knew where she is, gives the exact opposite of the story they wish people to believe. Shelving to them might give the impression that the pj know exactly who killed M (the parents) but simply do not have enough evidence to be certain of a successful prosecution. This is why the pj search no further and also why the Mcs do to give the impression she could still be alive and was taken by a stranger abductor.

viv said...

Wiz, Martin Grimes is clear in his regatory that Eddie will alert to decomposing human material and that includes blood, I find it extraordinary you suggest that blood would have to come from a cadaver, that is not what he says and the point was specifically picked up on by some intelligent PJs.

Mark Harrison has this to say at his own rogatory,it is a pity some people still insist they know better. They needed Eddie to actually find Madeleine's body to prove that case against the McCanns, he did not! :

During the meeting were exhibited videos with the details of search activities including the sniffer dogs lead by Martin GRIME. GRIME commented on the actions of the dogs and added that no confirmed evidence or information could be taken from the alerts by the dogs but needed to be confirmed with physical evidence.


4. In this particular case, based on the information and on your experience, what is the possibility that a cadaver was occulted?
To this question I am not in possession of any information or sufficient knowledge to comment.

viv said...

I would say the specific role of Eddie was to look for Madeleine's body. The specific role of Keela was to analyse what could be seen, I assume, under Uv light, what certainly looked like a violent crime scene.

If the McCanns did murder Madeleine and dispose of her body, the dogs did not uncover any evidence of that to enable charges to be made. That is what people need to accept IMO and be open to the possibility that is not what they actually did with her as the police obviously are. A closed mind is not very helpful. YOu never investigate a case by deciding what the conclusion is and then trying to make your investigation fit that conclusion. That is why people ignore the GASPAR statement and the comments of Mr Menezes, in spite my repeated challenges for people to take those on board. It would spoil their "case".

S.B. said...

Frensics? What are they?

My funky keyboard strikes again!

viv said...

Hey SB, so you slipped the o, we knew what you meant. New and exciting variations on words are sometimes brought into play on here:-))

viv said...

Briton arrested over beach photos
Last Updated: Saturday, 21 August 2010, 09:45 GMT- Search: British tourist portugal

A British tourist has been held over taking photos of children on a beach in PortugalA 48-year-old British tourist has been arrested in Portugal on suspicion of taking photographs of children.
The man was arrested by police after concerned parents saw him taking pictures of children playing on a beach on the Algarve and reported him to authorities.
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Foreign Office

The children concerned are said to be between the ages of eight and 15.
Maritime Police arrested the man, who has not been named, on Thursday afternoon in the resort of Vilamoura and released him on bail. He is understood to have appeared in court yesterday.
A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: "A British national was detained on Thursday August 19 by Faro's Maritime Police.
"Consular staff in Portimao have offered consular assistance to the detainee."

docmac said...

Well I don't ignore the Gaspar statement, Viv. I just believe it has nothing to do with Maddie's demise. It just shows me what sort of people the McCanns really are.

And, like Wiz, I believe Eddie was right. In fact, I have no doubts about the matter at all.

docmac said...

Best response in the DM article on the beach photos:

I know!

Arrest everyone with a camera.

No, hang on, arrest everyone who looks at a child.

No, er..that's not right , either.

Arrest all paedophiles...

No, try again,

Arrest all paediatricians, just in case..

No, still not right..

Arrest everyone!!! They are ALL guilty!!

Oh, and a little thing about offence committed, evidence, trial, innocent until proven guilty. Really, the intellectual capacity of some posters on here defies belief. We are doomed!

- JohnM, Mablethorpe, Lincs, 20/8/2010 17:35

docmac said...

And before I sleep, Viv.

Eddie finds cadaver odour. He has never been shown to have made a mistake.

Keela is then brought in to locate where useful samples may be collected. Ditto.

That's really all there is to it.

docmac said...

"When I was at law school Doc, I can remember being challenged, where is your legal authority for that statement:

"The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it’s probably there that the death occurred. "

I would make the same challenge to you, just where did you get that from?"

Sorry, Viv - did not see this earlier.

The Truth of the Lie, by Dr G. Amaral - Chapter 16.

docmac said...

And the rest of the statement ie about Eddie always being called in first was from the same author.

viv said...

But a banned book is not evidence in a serious criminal investigation, is it Doc.

I remain fed up to the back teeth of the Kate and Gerry camp "she was abducted by a strange lurking predator(s)

and then we have the Goncalo Amaral camp "the little girl is dead, she fell down the back of the sofa, she was found and dumped, within an hour or so the police were called and the dad was demanding they bring tracker dogs
"

Both of those camps have made money out of a missing little girl and reduced her to nothing more than a bitter litigation battle between sickening adults and I do not believe either!

viv said...

and you continue to ignore what the Prosecutor so clearly said Doc, why is that?

docmac said...

Yes, Viv.

He said at the libel trial in Lisbon - THIS year:

"The death thesis is the most likely one to explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance."

docmac said...

BTW, Viv

I was not suggesting it could be used as evidence. I would assume Grime would be called to give evidence as to how the dogs are used, and how reliable they are.

I merely stated where the info came from, and I'm pretty sure GA is aware of the procedures and practices in the use of those dogs.

viv said...

Martin Grime, his words are clear and unambiguous, both dogs found human blood in the same spot, Eddie could smell it, that is what he is trained to do, Keela only alerts when there is blood there and she did. There appear to be people who wish to continue to perpetuate a myth with highly inaccurate claims.


"The second dog that we�ve seen work today is the crime scene dog Keela. She will only indicate to me when she has found human blood, only human blood and it is only blood and there must be something there physically for her to be able to alert to me that�s she has actually found something. At this point over here where the victim recovery dog has indicated, as you saw on the video, the crime scene dog had actually given me what we call a passive indication where she freezes in this spot here which would indicate to me that there is some human blood there. She will find blood that�s historically very old and she will find anybody�s blood, any human blood, which is important to make sure that everybody knows."

docmac said...

I really don't understand what you are getting at with the dog thing, Viv.

Eddie smells cadaver scent, body fluids and blood, even if it's been washed away. Keela finds any blood that's been missed by the perps.

That's what he says, and that's what they do.

Off to bed now.

viv said...

What I am getting at Doc is that you keep insisting Eddie found "cadaver scent" and as the above extract from Martin Grime so clearly demonstrates what he actually found, backed up by Keela is human blood.

If there is just the slightest chance this little girl, Madeleine McCann is still alive, it is nothing short of wicked to just keep insisting she is dead.

hope4truth said...

Hello

I guess I just look at this from the point of view that until someone breaks ranks there will be no trial....

I cant help thinking Amaral is a very clever and stubbon man... His reputation was tarnished (by scummy parents not better than any chavvy benefit scum who use thier children when it suits them) and that must have infuriated him...

This was not the worst of it for a man like Amaral he had spent many years looking for lost children or solving crimes and along come two British parents who neglect their children to go to a bar brag about it lie about it and are more than likely covering up Murder or at the very least an accident...

These scummy British parents even got some insane followers to stand up for a murderous Bitch like Leonor whilst trashing Joana the daughter she and her brother killed memory to hell just to try and score some points for Kate and Gerry...

Amaral on more than one occasion has managed to let Gerry loose it and reveal the monster beneath the Actor and so much has come out that people who may have believed them have been shocked by....

To play with a childs life the way these two have if she is still alive is sick and twisted if they killed her they are sick and twisted if it was an accident and they covered it up they are liars and are guilty of fraud any which way how anyone can stand by these two evil people is beyond me but there are some disturbed people out there that seem to have an image of Maddie as an angel and my words are only hurting her...

In reality she is either dead in an unmarked grave thrown away like a piece of rubbish or being abused in ways that an adult could not begin to understand and every day is a living hell.... Mummy and Daddy on the other hand are so concerned they laugh their heads off 9 days after she vanished and celebrate her 4th Birthday by starting a fund to use to defend themselves against any bad words against them and spin their child into hell once again.....

What roll models

Wizard said...

Yesterday’s press perpetuates the story of MBM’s parent’s abduction theory. Most papers carried it but the story below is from the Sun.
Maddie beach perv The Sun

By HARRY MILLER
Published: Today (21 August 2010)

A BRITISH tourist has been arrested for allegedly taking photos of children - on a beach near where Madeleine McCann went missing.

Three sets of parents noticed the 48-year-old taking snaps of kids playing on Portugal's Algarve coast, police said yesterday.

Officers found "many" photos on his camera of children "aged between eight and 15".

Taking pictures of minors without their parents' permission is illegal in Portugal.

The suspect was arrested at about 3pm on Thursday after concerned mums and dads contacted the Maritime Police.

The man, who has not been named, was held on the Marinotel beach in Vilamoura.

The beach is about 50 miles east of Praia da Luz, where Maddie disappeared in May 2007. She was then aged three.

Police commander Marques Ferreira said: "A 48-year-old Englishman was seen photographing children. We verified the existence of many photographs."

He said the suspect had been alone when taking the photos.

The man was made an "arguido", or formal suspect, on Thursday. He was bailed by police and was due in court yesterday in the town of Loulé.

hope4truth said...

Wonder how long it will be until Kate and Gerry are hopeful that this is the Man who took Maddie????

docmac said...

OPERATION TASK CANINE SEARCH REPORT(final) - August 2007

SUMMARY

...My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD’s alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is ‘cadaver scent’ contaminant.

docmac said...

That comes from here btw.

viv said...

testing as my posts keep disappearing

viv said...

What a great post Hope, the cold reality for poor little Madeleine, who her parents continue to insist has not come to any harm.

Wiz, I suppose it was inevitable that sick rags like Gerry's favourite The Sun, would try to think up another Maddie story from knitting fog.

Doc, did you miss the "suggestive" word or the lack of what Grime was insisting there had to be, forensic evidence? The reality for little Maddie is either scenario as Hope points out.

viv said...

If you were a paedo wanting to get pics of children, would you be a bit shady about it, just get a few and then nip of to another beach. Or would you just keep on doing it with all the parents noticing and still keep on doing it as the police arrived?

Weird!

Sounds a bit far fetched but I would not put anything past Gerry McCann or what he deems it appropriate to spend the Find Maddie Fiddle on.

It is a good idea for it to be a criminal offence to photograph children, but what will the penalty be, not much I bet!

viv said...

AS the pressure mounts on Kate and GErry, I usually get this feeling of another press conference coming on and the last one was so hilarious.

docmac said...

I missed neither, Viv. The dogs find something. The lab must prove it. That is the law - in some cases unfortunately so, in my opinion. Grime knows this, hence his carefully modulated statements, though he did say in another interview (official, and part of the record in this case) both of these dogs are much more reliable than any forensic lab! I would assume that includes the not so reliable (as it turned out) FSS lab in the UK.

Maybe you should revisit all that he has said about Eddie and Keela, and how they work as a team. And how much they can be relied on, as a team. I fear you may have deleted much of that information from your hard drive.

I find it quite incredible that your view on Eddie's capabilities and findings has altered so much over time. I have not wavered on the subject, ever. As you have changed your 'diagnosis' on what happened to Maddie rather radically, is it possible you might be tempted to tailor information in some way to allow for your theory to be true? You might want to revisit what you wrote about Eddie's capabilities and reliability in past posts. Think about it.

Regarding the article referred to in the link posted above - read the WHOLE article. He keeps saying the same thing. He believes Eddie above all else. Read between the lines...

Madeleine is dead, Viv. The only conspiracy was 'the pact'. Actually, that is not strictly true. The UK police had something to do with it too, sorry to say.

Out.

Wizard said...

Hi All,

Yesterdays articles in the Sun and Mail about the Englishman taking photographs of children on a Spanish beach. The two papers immediately made a connection between him and missing MBM.

Erm.. it turns out the man was taking photos of boys between 8 to 15 years on the Spanish beach er… 50 miles from PdL. He was released with a caution. Hmm… is there a connection? LOL

Di said...

Hi All

I heard that as well Wizard. I have to say I think the man in question was rather stupid, especially in this day and age, thinking he could take pictures of the children on the beach without raising any suspicion. His reasons for doing this do seem rather odd, research for retail and design purposes!

Hi Doc

Thanks for correcting me on the other thread re: the jeans.

viv said...

Doc, My own view on the basis of all the evidence released in the official police files (as opposed to press reports alone) is that the McCanns planned the disappearance of Madeleine. Whether that was her murder or her kidnapping I do not know, but am surprised you think you know better than the Portuguese prosecutor.

This is not a war between adults who stick to their version of events come what may, i.e. Kate and Gerry it was a lurking paedophile, or Goncalo Amaral, it was an accident, this is about a real little girl and her mysterious disappearance where hard facts are pretty thin on the ground, I have no doubt due to the efforts of her own parents to conceal those facts.

Do not try and tell me what to read, what to keep on my hard drive etc, I have read the reports of Grimes more times than you can imagine, that does not change the fact they are indicative, not evidence or the rights of Madeleine herself from both a humanitarian and legal point of view.

S.B. said...

Evening all.....,

Phew! I appear to have nearly missed some heated stuff.

Hope, you are of course right in what you say and I adore the way in which you repeatedly remind the world of the Mccanns behaviour so soon after Madeleines disappearance! It doesn't do to forget the fundamental points of this case but it is so easy to do so when our minds are polluted by Mccann spin and misguided speculation.

When I first saw the headline about the man in Portugal taking photos of children, my immediate thoughts were ~ here goes another Mccann connection! 10 out of 10 for pure genius, albeit 50 miles off-course! My questions now are ~ 'Why have the Mccanns or their spokesperson not made a public declaration about the apparent connection'? Why is Edgar not taking this connection seriously? Why is he not jetting-off to Portugal to interview the culprit? Where is Mitchell? Has he jumped ship or is he taking a much earned sabbatical? What is the Prime Ministers view of all this?

Things are deadly quiet in camp Mccann.......

viv said...

Hiya SB

Maybe the McCanns think the strange photographer in Portugal is a bit of a non-runner in terms of good Maddie PR for them, due to this chap having a penchant for nothing but boys. Lots of photos of kids aged 8-15 but just, boys, boys, boys. I am sure he will be concerned about hanging onto his job!

He wanted to photograph them in their swimming trunks for ideas for a new line of trunks for Peacocks? Well hummm.

S.B. said...

Viv......,

Since when have clan Mccann bothered about 'relevance' when spinning the never ending supply of connections LOL!

Don't much like the thought of his research strategy, sounds a bit ominous to me. Whatever next?

Have you read TBs latest screed to Leicester police? If not I would suggest you take a look. If you have per chance forgotten any detail in regard to Kennedy corrupting witnesses, its ALL contained therein in minute detail as ever. There may be the odd punctuation mark missing but it doesn't detract from the overall composition.

Enjoy!

viv said...

Hiya SB, do you mean screed as in concreting over a floor, lol!

I am not sure I can say I enjoy reading anything from Mr Bennett, especially when he gets very carried away, but if you have a link will take a look.


Wont hold my breath waiting for them to answer him though!

xx

viv said...

Hiya SB

One thing I will say for TB, he seems a little less rigid and judgmental in his thinking style. Rather than insisting Maddie died and there was no abduction he is now open to either possibility. He is also accepting of the fact that Operation Task in UK is ongoing although he does not seem to realise that this is an international and confidential investigation. A reply from LP saying we are not investigating the issues as set out in your letter is taken by him as an indication they will not investigate at his say so. Oh dear!

He has also received a polite and interesting response from Jim Gamble, let us hope some of the conspiracy fog fades from his troubled brow.

hope4truth said...

Hello All

SB I think something the McCanns and their paid help never thought about was the future...

They had most of the world fooled into believing their child had been snatched and were lapping up the attention and rakeing in the cash to stop and think about 3 years time was not an issue....

In fact had they not been made arguidos their plan may well have worked they could have skimmed the fund and retired as the poor McCanns who never did find their child.....

Occasionaly they would have popped up somewhere to tell us how to take care of our children and to rake some cash in from hello nice family shots of the 4 of them with an empty chair for maddie....

But they had to defend themselves as people realised they were telling a pack of lies....

(Sorry I do go on)...

The point is IF she is really missing then their actions since 3rd May 2007 have been selfish and would have put her in even greater danger than she already was...

Money has been thrown away on false leads and every penny should be spent on searching....

As I say over and over IF they are telling the truth about her being taken and they really are the most evil scum ever to walk the earth their actions and laughter are discusting and may they rot in hell for putting themselves first before and after she was taken....

Their families must be in a terrible position but I know my parents love me but they would ask what the hell I thought I was doing if their granddaughter was missing and I was laughing touring and spending her fund on my defence and paying myself from it as a director of her fund....

viv said...

Hiya Hope

Your comments for me are certainly thought provoking.

Had the McCanns not been made arguidos we would not have seen the troubled and worried side of Gerry McCann that we witnessed for the very first time as he exited the police station in Portmao.

It is an indescribable expression almost that he is wearing on that occasion and not one I have seen either before or since. For such an arrogant and scheming man it was a look that suggested to me that hard armour he wears had been well and truly dented. He looked afraid, fearful, like his own world was closing in on him. It is very hard to deflate the ego of a narcissist who has such an inate sense of self, such overwhelming confidence in his schemes and plans, his ability to con and manipulate others. But as the solicitor pulled him back, the look on Gerry's face was one of utter shame and defeat. Here, he had learned one thing, the Portuguese Police were simply not the stupid plods he thought he could seriously outplay.

I often wonder if Goncalo did no more than play Gerry at his own game. Gerry wanted that massive Fund to keep on swelling, as you rightly suggest, he wanted to wallow in what he knew would be a wave of public sympathy. But thanks to the decision of Goncalo the world now knew very differently, this was not the bereft couple, victims themselves of some cruel paedophile.

At a stroke, all of Gerry's vast money making plans had been ruined. His hatred for Goncalo Amaral has never really been well concealed has it.

From a legal point of view it is OK for me to say, well maybe the McCanns should not have been alerted at that stage, given the police had nothing more than Eddie perhaps smelling cadaver and blood that perhaps was Madeleine's. Alerting them allowed to be wise to the fact they were under investigation and act more defensively, perhaps damaging vital bugging operations.

But in another respect what Goncalo did achieve was the ruination of the scheme Gerry wanted, his Find Maddie Fund. I am quite convinced he intended that to be a multi million pounds earner. I ever wonder if Kennedy was helping out in the short term for a business return in the long term. If this had of been a case of a genuine abduction of a pretty child from middle class doctors the film and book rights and celebrity interviews would have been worth countless millions.

One thing we must always thank Goncalo for is that he, quite single handedly put a stop to that. He knew for a fact they were involved in her disappearance and he was going to make sure the world knew that too and they could not continue to cash in on their daughter who they undoubtedly just mercilessly disposed of with as much concern as you would have for recycling the rubbish, perhaps less.

I do not believe for one minute this was some chance abduction, they left those doors open for a reason and they lied about it for a reason. No normal parents would do that, let alone doctors, or continue to do so after one of the children had cried so sadly, they say, even reporting it to them. I doubt even that is true, they are manipulative liars who care not what they say, so long as they think it paints them in a better light. There is no light that would ever be bright enough for that.

S.B. said...

Hello all......,

Again Hope you are spot on with your analysis!

I have said on more than one occasion that I don't think for one moment that Amaral really believed Madeleine died as a result of an accident nor do I think he was fool enough to be distracted by their machinations.

All detectives have their own operational style and I don't think Amaral was an exception in this respect. Quite a common approach is to draw a suspect/s into revealing themselves by luring into a false sense of security ~ this was possibly Amarals intention, to make them feel that he sympathized with their plight ~ what better way of exposing the truth eventually. However, as you say Viv, I think perhaps they were a little too hasty by displaying their trump card in the absence of conclusive evidence.

Whatever, in the eyes of the world the Mccanns discredited him, destroyed his career, abused him and his family and thats just for starters. Who then can blame him for wanting a little revenge, rightly or wrongly, and what a way to do it by destroying their dispicable plans for the future!

Perhaps Amaral was a little foolish or perhaps he had ulterior motives for his actions, I don't know but I remain convinced that all will be revealed sometime in the future.

One thing that can't be denied is the fact that he is unfortunately yet another victim of an unprecedented audacious plot to defy the law by Messrs Mccann Unlimited!

viv said...

Hiya SB

I entirely agree with you, I do not believe that Amaral thinks Maddie died by accident either. That would be to defy a lot of the evidence in the case and he is clear in his book, there is much he will not discuss, in no way does he wish to prejudice the ongoing investigation. Therefore he has quite intentially I believe left a lot of that evidence alone.

So what was the motivation for his book? I believe it was at least partially as you suggest, because he was very deeply offended, that he worked so hard to find little Maddie and he knew that those who were attacking him were the actual culprits. I believe he knew the McCanns deliberately chose Portugal, believing the policing would be low quality, and that, coupled with the obvious language barrier and strings they knew they could pull, as a couple of doctors, apparently so greatly wronged would frustrate the job that unfortunately for Amaral, perhaps, he was entrusted to carry out.

But secondly I believe it was also because the McCanns had left no stone unturned and he knew a conviction was going to be extremely difficult on the basis of what mistakes they did make. Therefore, he was going to bring justice in a different way, by letting the world know who the culprits are, and totally frustrating their dreams to have a mortage free home and millions in the bank.

Like you, I have always believed that one day Goncalo will see what he has always wanted, justice in the full and conventional sense of the word. Where the story of precisely what they did with little Maddie can be told in a court of law and the McCanns, and others, face what is coming to them.

Judging by their continuing attempts to influence senior members of both the labour and Condem governments that day may come a little sooner than any of us realise.

I also continue to hope that whether dead or alive, little Maddie can be recovered from whatever it is they did with her, particularly if she continues to suffer in the physical rather than just the spiritual sense.

viv said...

Congratulations to David and Samantha Cameron on the birth of their baby daughter, weighing in at just over 6lb and one month early, whilst on holiday in Cornwall.

I am sure she will get all the love and attention children need to thrive and her three older siblings will be excited too!

viv said...

Interesting post on Missing Madeleine, but perhaps the rather hostile and defensive response to it is even more interesting....There are clearly some folk who just cannot abide any suggestion Maddie just may be still alive, chant the death mantra or else, some things never change in forum world, that is for sure!

Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3








What is Portugual up to now.....
buildersbum on Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:49 pm

.Sorry for opening a thread but im interested to know if anyone else has heard of this happening......

My sister friend has just come back from Portugual they had taken their Grandaughter/son for a weeks holiday with her and hubby, on leaving Faro airport, security pulled them to one side and asked to speak with the girl, they were all taken into a room and the Grandaughter was asked who the people she was with was and why she was with them, AND HOW LONG HAD THE LITTLE GIRL KNOWN THEM!!!! also what had they been doing on the holiday.
All this went on in front of the Grandparents but they were asked not to interupt, from what my sister said they were real keen on their questioning of the little girl, who happens to be 8 years of age and yes has long blonde hair.

Whats happening? Whynow after over 3 years?

viv said...

However, I do find the number of people who believe Maddie was a long haired BLOND at the time she went missing pretty extraordinary for any real followers of this case.

Maybe they should check out the official last picture of Madeleine on the Portuguese Police file. The tennis balls pic, top right, correct me if I am wrong but this is a brown eyed, brown haired little girl. Blonds do not have brown eyes unless it comes out of a bottle, but very young children, even with brown eyes do still sometimes have blond hair in the first few years of their life. They grow out of that, FACT¬!

In fact it is one of the things that makes me so incredibly suspicious of Kate and Gerry McCann, why do they want to portray their missing daughter as some baby faced little blond or even red head? Why do they not focus on the real last picture of her, showing what she actually looks like. I think many people could be forgiven for thinking just like me, Maddie could well have been disposed of by them, alive, and what they are really fearful of is someone actually being able to recognised her. They even lied about the name she responds to, insisting it is only Madeleine, as we know for a fact, it is Maddie!

hope4truth said...

Hello

I must be honest I belive she is dead and if the last post is true (the one about the girl and her grandparents) I guess they have to look like they are doing something...

You have raised another valid point Maddie was not blonde her sister is so why would parents of a real findable little girl lie about her discription????

Well if the would they cant want her found....

xxx

viv said...

Hiya Hope

It could just be a question of procedure. The police officers involved know she died but as there is no conclusive evidence to prove that in court, she technically still has to be classed as a missing person and looked for. That is probably what Kate and Gerry are playing on with the Home Secretaries. But given the information from the police/lack of co-operatiotion from the Tapas lot the Home Secretaries are not allocating any further resources, that could be a complete explanation.

It could also be a complete explanation for Kate sleeping on her own the night before and the general disharmony there seemed to be between them. I have always had this feeling that she was not quite as keen on the plan as him. She was loathe to go on the holiday. But I do still struggle with planning to actually murder her although that is very clearly possible and does tally with what the profiler Rainbow said of Gerry, a possible murder suspect.

There again, it could be said that someone who arranges to have his daughter "abducted" and then cashes in on his own wicked crime whilst pretending to engage people to look for her is just as evil!

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

I find it imposible to belive they went away and planned to Execute their child (if they did there would have been a much better plan to fake an abduction) I guess that means they cant have planed to have her adopted either.....

Something happend and they did not expect it to maybe Kate did loose it and this time went to far or she had an accident.....

The problem is they were lying about the neglect someone was missing and the question fromt the PJ about all the children being in one room (one adult stayed in each night to watch the children etc???).....

If they had planned this and really thought about it the routine would have been diffrent....

If I was planning something so wicked it would go like this....

Each morning take my children to the Creche show what a fab Mummy I am lots of fuss etc....

Take them out at lunch and make a big song and dance in a cafe once again showing my love and adoration to my child...

After a rest take them swimming go to the park then go back to the room for a little sleep whilst Daddy goes out to the beach to sunbathe as he does every day and finaly take them for dinner and a walk before bed....

Sit with Hubby and relax and go to bed....

On one of the days (probebly the 5th day) the child would vanish during our afternoon nap... Oh hell we forgot to lock the door and they must have come in and grabbed her or OMG did she open the door and walk away by herself????

After the police have been called much frantic searching which goes on for over a week where can she be????

Daddy has plenty of time to move the body during his distressing search and once this is done in come the TV cameras......

The Abduction Story has so many holes mainly because they all said the same thing then changed their minds never searched trashed the apartment wont do a reconstruction etc....

Which is why whatever happend to her made them panic and they only had 24 hours at most to clean up and come up with a plan...

Which is now falling apart due to their own happy pictures and comments and the fact over 3 million has been spent and it is obvious they have done nothing more with it than find anything that makes them look innocent....

But sadly when you refuse to answer 48 very simple questions for your missing child innocent is the last thing you can expect to look....

Wizard said...

Madeleine’s hair colour, the way she looked in reality, the flattering photographs issued by the parents. Hmm…

Quite rightly, it’s been suggested that this could mean an intention to mislead but imo it could also be an act of a narcistic mind.

If a child is genetically from a narcisstic parent/s would the narcisstic parent be able to portray that child as just ordinary. Children may well be viewed as an extension of themselves, thus that child will be displayed in the most flattering light.

I think most of us do this with our children to a certain extent but would be able to pull back to reality if they went missing and the police wanted an accurate picture for their search. Perhaps a narcissist would not be able to do this and this is what we are seeing.

More chillingly of course is that people generally do not like to talk ill of the dead and tend to portray only their positive side and this would include the way they looked.

Wizard said...

I was just thinking about my last post. If you have a product or idea you wish to sell, you always advertise it in its most flattering light to suck people in. A stranger abduction can be viewed as the idea trying to be sold en mass thus; it would follow that the most attractive photograph of the child in question should be used.

An attractive or beautiful child is more acceptable to the public as an abductors prize rather than perhaps a plain one. Again this is what we could be seeing here a straightforward marketing ploy and to hell with accuracy. This is the price you pay when you hire the services of professional media manipulators.

viv said...

Hiya both and thanks for interesting posts as ever.

"A good marketing ploy", we know this is how Gerry's mind works because he has actually said that.

So, I can accept the reason for the misleading photographs actually is how best to "sell" Madeleine to raise money. If she is small, blond, angelic, lovely outlined eyes, looking down sweetly, tinted red hair and matching red dress flashed up over expensive Marble Arch in London, this is the look that would sell.

It is probably not acceptable to Kate or Gerry that Madeleine just had brown hair and had lost that angelic cute baby look that would so appeal to the public.

Kate herself, is obviously a dyed blond and her comments have suggested she saw Maddie as a little clone of herself. I do think Madeleine's hair got dyed at various stages which on a child of that age is quite bizarre behaviour.

I still believe the McCanns actually went to PDL with the aim of staging a stranger abduction.

The ten text messages Gerry received the day before and his blatant denial of them, in spite the record on the police file are undisputable facts. This is the same day before that Kate chose to sleep in with the children.

Gerry handing two sets of old pictures to the first attending GNR are also undisputed facts and again, those pictures appear on the PJ files. In fact the oldest pic where Maddie has the short bobbed hair is on the PJ webpage!

Payne's lengthy email arguments with Mark Warner are also undisputable facts and very tellingly the detail of those emails has not been revealed to the public.

IMO, everything the McCanns did was planned and calculated and in fact so bizarre no parent would have done it. That is why it is so obvious to me they planned it that way.

IMO, Gerry has the MO of a serious fraudster and what is more, he mixes with them!

viv said...

I do think it is possible Madeleine was the victim of sexual abuse.

I also think it is highly possible that Kate had become incapable of work due to her pregnancies/the hormones injected/her mental health.

Gerry, in his rigid and pragmatic way looks to a solution of how they can have the fab lifestyle he thought they could have as two doctors. How they can afford to live in that house with the £323000 mortgage and have all the other trappings of wealth on his salary of just £75K per year.

I do believe that a bizarre plan was hatched to rid themselves of a difficult child (that they had made difficult this is not disrespect to Maddie) and solve their financial problems. But only a true narcissist like Gerry would actually believe he could get away with all of this. And what makes him very angry, as we saw in Portugal in February, is that he is not getting away with it. He is not changing the public mood in Portugal or UK and he, in his dogmatic way, truly believed that with enough cracking of the whip, via expensive lawyers, and enough fraudulent conning and manipulation with his team of media manipulators, he actually could do. Then he could do what he always planned to do, make an absolute fortune.

The reality is for Gerry no film producer will buy his story and the Police and Governments in both Portugal and UK are just not listening to his dogma. They have got him taped.

viv said...

There are other things that can be added to the known facts in this case to try and piece together what may have happened.

There is very clear witness evidence and even Gerry admits, the twins were drugged. Kate clearly knew this, according to Fiona repeatedly checking the twins breathing.

This again demonstrates this was a planned event and one that the McCanns were very concerned about. Immediately questioning their UK police liaison officer, have the PJ found out anything about the children being drugged. They really do give themselves away. Additionally several months later, after several hair cuts, no doubt, the McCanns actually announced the twins had been drug tested and were clear as was Kate!

This is the sick thing about Gerry and his blogging which no doubt under legal advice he was advised to get rid of due to its incriminating content. Comments like Sean has developed a taste for "sea bass" and we even had time to fit in a haircut for the twins. But part of all this to Gerry is that smug feeling of satisfaction he gets, in playing at outwitting the police and rubbing their nose in it with such comments. That is very sick behaviour.

Did the McCanns drug all three children to make them sleep so they could leave them without a babysitter? I find that very unlikely, I think the fact of no babysitter has always been part of their scheme as to how Maddie could just disappear. The babysitting arrangements, the making sure they did not have a child checking routine in PDL but other Mark Warner's did, was clearly was Payne was wishing to make so certain of in his emails which he admits were even argumentative.

I believe all three children were taken in early that night and drugged because they planned to get rid of Madeleine and the twins had to be asleep...also. Again, the difference in routine that night, the children being taken in for bed at 6 pm instead of being allowed to play around the tennis area is a proven fact. IMO, people should concentrate on those issues that are actually facts and look at those, why did the children have to be taken in for bed at such a ridiculously early hour that particular night?

viv said...

And what I started this thread on, if you were

on holiday with your three children,

and you thought it was safe to leave them for up to 30 minutes at a time,

and you had a rear patio door to the apartment, that opened out onto a patio with a ten feet drop to the garden below, and that patio door has an outside security shutter that went over it

Would you actually go out and leave your children with that security shutter up and the patio door left open so that anyone could just enter from the rear

THAT IT JUST FRANKLY UNBELIEVABLE!

viv said...

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-raoul-moat-tapes/4od#3113970


With a lot of commentary from both a psychiatrist and a psychologist, this documentary about Raoul Moat, control freak, is fascinating.

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

You commented in an earlier post:-

“But part of all this to Gerry is that smug feeling of satisfaction he gets, in playing at outwitting the police and rubbing their nose in it with such comments. That is very sick behaviour.”

Well that is the exact response a narcissist would display – playing games, which they otherwise might do well to keep quiet about – but they just can’t help advertising their superiority.

By the way, narcissism is a condition that cannot be used as a defence excuse for crimes in British court of law.

Wizard said...

Viv you mention the Raoul Moat link which I will have a look at. Moat’s case links very nicely to my above post concerning narcissism. Prof. David Wilson criminologist at Birmingham City University commented at the time that Moat was undoubtedly a narcissist. Like psychopathic behaviour their really isn’t a cure.

viv said...

Hi Wiz

Actually Blackwell set a legal precedent in being allowed to use his diagnosis of NPD as a psychiatric rather than pure psychological condition to reduce his murder conviction down to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. But this is certainly not the norm, generally, personality disorder, you are considered to know exactly what you are doing and have to pay the price for that. Blackwell was also unusual in that there was nothing is his home background that could be blamed for him developing such an abnormal personality.

Raoul Moat on the other hand was pretty textbook. A mentally ill mother who formed no attachment to her two sons and the boys had no relationship with their father (different ones) either. When Moat did get a step father, according to his brother, on one occasion the step father threw Moat so forcefully up the wall it damaged the plaster. Of course the step father denies doing that.

But as the psychologist pointed out there does come a stage when one becomes an adult and has to start taking responsibility, it is not acceptable to just keep on blaming a troubled childhood, even though that may well have led to a disordered personality being formed.

Moat's brother has not gone on to terrorise and control a string of female partners with domestic violence and then finally gone so far as to maim and kill and he suffered the same type of upbringing but perhaps from listening to him, not the further abuse from the step father because he was bigger. It is said in the documentary Moat made a point of making himself, large, powerful, very strong, so that in future he would do the controlling, not his step father or anyone else.

viv said...

June 29, 2005

Schoolboy narcissist who killed his parents jailed for lifeBy Philippe Naughton, Times Online A public schoolboy who bludgeoned his elderly parents to death and then flew off to the United States for a spending spree with his girlfriend was jailed for life today after pleading guilty to two counts of manslaughter on grounds of diminished responsibility.

Brian Blackwell, 19, is believed to have set a legal precedent in using a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) as the sole grounds for escaping a murder charge.

Blackwell used a claw hammer and a kitchen knife to kill his parents in July last year in what police believe was a fit of "narcissistic rage". The bloodstained bodies of 72-year-old Sidney Brian Blackwell, a retired accountant, and his wife Jacqueline, 61, an antiques dealer, lay undiscovered at their bungalow in the affluent village of Melling, near Aintree racecourse in Merseyside, for six weeks until a neighbour noticed a bad smell.

The day after the killing, Blackwell, a fantasist and compulsive liar, flew first class to New York with his girlfriend Amal Saba, where he embarked on a £30,000 spending spree, including £2,200 on a three-night stay in the Presidential Suite of the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan.

Sentencing Blackwell at Liverpool Crown Court, Mr Justice Royce said: "This is an extraordinary case. It is also one of terrible family tragedy. The circumstances in which you bludgeoned and stabbed to death first your father and then your mother are chilling.

"You then, with breathtaking callousness, left their bodies to rot while you enjoyed a luxurious holiday in America with your girlfriend. For a son to do this is almost beyond belief but you are no ordinary son. The medical experts for both the prosecution and the defence are firmly of the view that you suffer from an abnormality of the mind."

He added: "You are a highly intelligent young man and you are a very good tennis player, but not as good as you led others to believe. You are also an arch deceiver, an accomplished and resourceful liar and a highly manipulative young man."

After his guilty plea today, Liverpool Crown Court heard how Blackwell, a straight-A student described as "exemplary" by his former teachers, suffered from NPD, a clinically recognised mental illness.

The disorder made Blackwell obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, power and brilliance. He created a web of lies about his life, including claiming he was a professional tennis player, and funded his fantasies by applying for 13 credit cards in his father’s name.

The couple returned home from the US on August 12 and Blackwell stayed with Ms Saba’s family after claiming he was locked out of his house until his parents returned from their villa in Majorca. A week later he returned to his old school, the £7,000-a-year Liverpool College, to discover he had passed four A-levels in maths, chemistry, biology and Spanish, all at grade A. The results gained him a place at Nottingham University to study medicine in October.

But on Sunday September 5, the decomposed bodies of Mr and Mrs Blackwell were discovered. They had been dead for six weeks when a neighbour called at their three-bedroom home and noticed an unusual smell. The couple took frequent holidays to Spain and neighbours were not at first suspicious about their absence.

viv said...

Inside the house detectives discovered a bloodbath. The couple’s injuries were so extensive that at first police thought they may have been shot. The family were popular in the local area, with Mrs Blackwell an active member of the church, who also wrote poems for a community newsletter. Mr Blackwell, who used his middle name Brian, took pride in his well-maintained home and garden.

The couple had high expectations for their son, telling people he was destined to become "not just a doctor - a surgeon".

Hours after the grim discovery, detectives arrested Blackwell, who had spent most of the summer living with his girlfriend in Childwall, Liverpool.

He was charged with murder and was due to stand trial earlier this week. However, prosecutors dropped the charge and accepted his guilty plea to the lesser charge of manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility after a team of five experts reached a diagnosis of NPD.

In mitigation, Stephen Riordan QC, for Blackwell, read out a letter from the defendant. Blackwell, wearing jeans and grey v-necked sweatshirt, wept in the dock as the words were read out to the courtroom.

It said: "Every moment of every day I wish I could turn back the hands of time. I eternally long to be a little boy again at a time when everyone really loved each other, when we could have a happy time and be a family once more.

"I miss them more than anything in the world. I can only hope that in the future their big son can still make them proud."

He added: "I’m aware that I will be severely punished for what I believe to be the worst crime imaginable. I cannot block out what happened forever and sometime in the future the time will come when I will remember the events in their entirety.

"The true test will be whether I can live with myself knowing what I have done. The guilt will punish and haunt me for 24 hours a day for the rest of my life."

A number of high profile crimes have been committed by people with NPD. John Hinckley shot Ronald Reagan, then US president, in 1981 to impress actress Jodie Foster after becoming obsessed with the film Taxi Driver. Hinckley was sensationally found not guilty of the attempted assassination by reason of insanity, and was sent to a mental health institution by the judge.

Jill Dando’s killer was also found to have NPD. Loner Barry George shot the 37-year-old BBC presenter dead outside her home in Fulham, south west London, in 1999 and was sentenced to life in prison in 2001.

viv said...

Perhaps that was the problem in Blackwell's upbringing. The parents paid for a private education and stated, he will not be "just a doctor", he will be a surgeon.

Blackwell was then in a position of trying to live up to what his wealthy parents thought they could buy, his high status attributes as a surgeon. Unfortunately, with all the money in the world, children cannot always achieve what their parents demand of them or be academic at all. Take Princess Di for example, not academic in spite of all that expensive education, but I think she had a greater gift in spite her privileged lifestyle, an abundance of emotional intelligence.

viv said...

But Di's privileged lifestyle did involve being in an unhappy home where the parents split up, she lost her mum and got a step mother she plainly did not like.

Again, maybe she demonstrates sometimes children can go either way, they can learn from their own experience and be better and more compassionate adults, or they can simply learn to control and block out those feelings of helplessness and dented ego in that way.

viv said...

When Moat was violently controlling his partner he missed and blacked the baby's eye. This again seriously alerted police and social workers to him.

In his own way it seems he knew that assaulting a child was just completely unacceptable and it was something he was never going to admit to. But the police and social workers were determined children were not safe in his presence (rightly so, even witnessing domestic violence or being around such an unstable and controlling person is highly damaging). They were determined to protect his children and prosecute for the assault on the baby. This is what caused him to completely flip.

He even suggested he would plead guilty to any crimes in the area and do ten years, so long as the dropped the child assault charge. Of course they were not agreeable to that bizarre course.

So Moat went on a vicious collision course with social workers, police and the foster carers of his children. He became paranoid they were all working against him, turning his children away from him etc.

The sheer antipathy towards those in authority is something that is so often seen. Anti police.

Gerry McCann has demonstrated that. He started court proceedings against the Chief Constable of Leicester Police and other British agencies investigating him, demanding their file of papers. He had to back down. He has orchestrated a vicious smear campaign against Portuguese police for simply doing their job and investigating him. He has threatened to sue them for One Million Pounds. He has actually sued Goncalo Amaral for one million pounds. His actions demonstrate he is very angry with the police. He is not motivated by trying to find his daughter at all. He is angry with is accusers and determined to show them in a bad light.

Mr Moat tried to do that, and in the end, knew he just could not win.

Wizard said...

Morning Viv,

Thank you for highlighting cases brought to court for NPD they were very interesting to read.

Ironically in the Blackwell case we are told his condition means he is a ‘compulsive liar’ and nothing points to this fact more imo than the statement issued via his solicitor:-

“It said: "Every moment of every day I wish I could turn back the hands of time. I eternally long to be a little boy again at a time when everyone really loved each other, when we could have a happy time and be a family once more.

"I miss them more than anything in the world. I can only hope that in the future their big son can still make them proud."

He added: "I’m aware that I will be severely punished for what I believe to be the worst crime imaginable. I cannot block out what happened forever and sometime in the future the time will come when I will remember the events in their entirety.”

I doubt very much he had any remorse in his action only remorse at being found out and proving that he was not as smart as he believed he was. Because of his NPD he was probably lying through his teeth when he made the above statement or conversely it was written by his solicitor.

The mitigating circumstance got his charge reduced to manslaughter but I think he was sent to prison and not a mental hospital. So he was punished for his actions.

I just wonder with Blackwell whether it would be safe to have him placed back in society ever again. At the end of his sentence he will be freed which is a chilling thought.

Wizard said...

As we were discussing the book mentioned below last week I thought you might be interested in this bit of information from The Stage.

ITV1 commissions The Suspicions of Mr Whicher adaptation The Stage

By Matthew Hemley
Published Thursday 26 August 2010 at 09:58

Red Riding actor Paddy Considine is to star in an adaptation of Kate Summerscale's book The Suspicions of Mr Whicher for ITV1.

The two-hour drama is being made by Hat Trick Productions and adapted by Neil McKay, whose credits include Mo and See No Evil - The Moors Murders.

Set in 1860, the true story tells of the investigation into the murder of three-year-old Saville Kent.

The Suspicions of Mr Whicher will film on location around London in October.

It is being directed by James Hawes and the executive producer for Hat Trick Productions is Mark Redhead.

Redhead said: "This a very modern story. It gripped the country in the way that the case of Madeleine McCann has done in our day. It became an obsession for the press and was even debated in the House of Commons. Perhaps for the first time, the Rode Hill House murder exposed the darkness that lay behind the solid front door of the respectable English home. As a story it is riveting but also deeply touching."

The production was commissioned by ITV director of drama commissioning Laura Mackie and controller of drama commissioning Sally Haynes.

S.B. said...

Wizard......,

Considering the book was first published nearly two and a half years ago it would be interesting to know why it has suddenly come up-front!

Equally intriguing is Mark Redheads comparison with the case of Madeleine Mccann! Makes you wonder where this could be leading.......

S.B. said...

Viv.....,

As you will realise by now, I am no expert in the field of psychology so rely upon you guys to guide me.

You mention very recently Gerry's blogging which on reflection seems to be an extremely bizarre way of behaving. What makes one such as he, an ordinary suburban unexeptional individual, think that the general public are even remotely interested in his daily pursuits? Why do it?

I should think the blog of Mrs Bloggins of Chez Nous seaview guesthouse, Great Yarmouth would be more exciting that Gerry Mccann of Rothley Castle, somewhere in the UK. Or am I being naive?

Di said...

Hi All

Wizard

How interesting that the book is going to be on ITV1, as you say S.B very odd seeing as it was published two and a half years ago. I don't think K & G will like this one bit.

I would imagine Carter Ruck are on standby or at least their minions will be.

Di said...

Hi S.B

Going back to DX days, it was suggested that Gerry was blogging to give coded messages. Whether that is true I have no idea.

What I can tell you is that I read his blog when he said he had taken the fridge to the tip and had to go out and buy a new one. That one particular statement has caused so much controversy and arguements on so many sites, it says to me that some truth is in there, it is just a case of finding it.

docmac said...

Redhead said: "This a very modern story. It gripped the country in the way that the case of Madeleine McCann has done in our day. It became an obsession for the press and was even debated in the House of Commons. Perhaps for the first time, the Rode Hill House murder exposed the darkness that lay behind the solid front door of the respectable English home.

Hmmm. Having read this work, there are some remarkable similarities...

Viv

I must take umbrage at your assertion that the MM thread mentioned by you a day or two ago made any reference to Madeleine being deceased. Neither did any of the respondents suggest anything like it. There was no discussion of Madeleine having gone missing whilst being a blonde, long-haired or otherwise, if I recall.

Additionally, Madeleine was not 'ash blonde' anyway. And her eyes were, technically speaking, not brown at all. BTW, there are natural blondes who have brown eyes.

S.B. said...

Hello Di....,

Farter Cluck are on permanent standby I suspect! At least until the bottomless pit alias 'The Find Madeleine Fund' runs out.

Oh no! How silly of me! Of course donations are still steadily continuing ~ Kate and Gerry said so, therefore it must be true!

viv said...

Hiya Wiz, Well yes, Blackwell and Moat, both diagnosed with NPD and both, of course compulsive liar, cunning and scheming with absolutely no capacity for remorse, just revenge for perceived slights.

I think Blackwell would have written that statement himself, although only 19, he is clearly not lacking in intellect. Having been caught bang to rights the only thing he can reasonably do is mitigate his sentence. He would be smart enough to know what impresses judges, psychologists, probation officers, the capacity to have insight into his offending and a demonstration of remorse. Offenders do get released back into society when they are demonstrating they have developed victim empathy, this smart cooky is demonstrating it immediately. But those with NPD and Psychopathy are so devious they will simply say what people want to hear, or what they think people want to hear, not that they really have the capacity to think as a normal person would, with emotion and empathy and so he comes out with this one:


"I miss them more than anything in the world. I can only hope that in the future their big son can still make them proud."


He was just 19 at the time, I think the conversations with his parents whom he developed a boiling rage towards would have gone something along the lines of, //we have paid out for an expensive education for you, you are going to university to be a doctor, we want you to be a surgeon and make something of yourself, not just doss around spending our hard earned money for us.

I am sure he had thoughts to repaying his parents generosity by working hard at university, to him, all had been provided and he expected that to continue. I suspect they were trying to cut him loose and make him stand on his own two feet. So he callously murdered them and went on a wild spending spree with their money.

Compulsive liars, well Gerry McCann! Blackwell told an elaborate scheme of lies to his girlfriend about where had supposedly got all the money from to lavish such apparent generosity upon her. He even bought her a sports car with his parents money. Moat pretended he was born in France with a posh dad with lots of land, he had never even set foot in France. Insecurity, low self esteem, this is their way of boosting it.

Will Blackwell ever be safe to be unleashed back into society, no,not in my opinion. I hope the decision is never taken to give him parole.

viv said...

Oh Lol!

I agree with Di, the McCanns are not going to like the parallels that are being drawn here!

The death of a three year old behind the closed door, or was it open!

And lol to you too Doc, you take umbrage at any suggestion you insist Maddie is dead:-)))

As Gerry would say, just ask the dogs eh?

I am sure he is not wanting to let that little money spinner drop, is he!

Good old Philomena really set that hare running..

viv said...

Di, I actually think Gerry believed people would just be fascinated with the Kate and Gerry show. Do you remember how he even used to apologise if he had missed a few days, a bit like your favourite comic strip really.

Sean developing a taste for sea bass, taking the fridge to the tip, to me this is a man with a very sardonic sense of humour and also an eye to what will yield a good marketing ploy. A natural salesman really, like his brother, he almost missed his true vocation, but then found an outlet for his erm talents.

viv said...

"I can only hope that in the future their big son can still make them proud."

What I meant Wiz is this is the main reason I am sure he wrote this himself. There is the source of the rage, they were not proud of him, they were angry with him and the callousness is clear enough, how can they ever be impressed with is future conduct, even if he did a degree in prison, when he has so brutally done them to death? A lack of insight? Clear enough!

viv said...

Additionally, Madeleine was not 'ash blonde' anyway. And her eyes were, technically speaking, not brown at all. BTW, there are natural blondes who have brown eyes.


Doc, you almost sound like you knew Madeleine. I am not sure where you get the "ash blond" from, I have described her hair as many different colours, it would seem at the whim of her loving parents who also carefully made her up for photoshoots, nice.

When you talk of natural blonds with brown eyes, do you mean "technical blonds"? like Kate McCann>

hope4truth said...

Hello All

Di... that blog was shocking if it had been written as a spoof by an ANTI team McCann would have been all over the news with how anyone can belive they thought that way....

I think he blogged about the fridge so that before anyone else could say he got rid of a fridge in secret he had already said it himself and tried to make it sound innocent (which it could well have been) but I have never heard of anyone getting rid of a fridge from a rented holiday apartment finding a tip to take it to and then buying the owners of said apartment a new one?????

Or he again wants to throw more stuff in the mix to throw everyone off target to what actualy went on....

As for that fund the small amount spent searching will be a major part of their undoing.... Who wastes money on Carter Ruck when a child is findable????

I note today that Cat Hater Woman has gone into hiding as she has so many threats against her.... Whilst I think she is a nasty Bitch it is intresting to see how the Sun has gone all out to encourage the humiliation of this woman (who must be missing some brain cells to do what she did)and whilst what she did was cruel and evil the little cat survived....

I am not saying the McCanns should have to go into hiding for their protection but they have "lost" their child and tell the world it is beacause they neglected her on a nightly basis still have not answered many questions and have spent her fund on their own defence (when not a single charge has been leveled at them) and the Sun worships the ground they walk on....

To think people who have caused such harm to a 3 year old little girl are hailed as heros and a stupid old woman who put a cat in a bin (who has said sorry and regrets what she did) is the most hated person in England and the Sun are stiring it up big time well it shows just how dispensible children are really dosent it...... Sick sick sick....

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

Cat Woman’s downfall was cctv, which she was unaware of. I’ve often thought it was a great pity no one in the streets surrounding apartment 5A had cctv for security reasons. If they had, the coming and goings of apartment 5A would be on record for all to see. It would be interesting to hear how Gerry et al would have spun his version of events if cctv footage had been available. However, I’m quite sure there would be a perfectly innocent explanation for them. lol

If I remember correctly only the café down at the beach and the Ocean Club reception had them.

Wizard said...

Morning All,

The Suspicions of Mr Whitcher – the film. Well why put this story into production at nearly three years after the books publication.

On reading back, I think you’ve all hit on the answer. There are striking similarities to the McCann case. Although this production will no doubt be turned into a lavish period piece and is truely the mother of all ‘who done its’ – with the mystery revolving around people lying for one reason or another. Covering up for secrets that had nothing to do with the murder or just covering up for the sake of family members, the family's life style and the scandal it would cause if the truth came out.

The Mc’s have every reason to be on the alert with this one as it will open a whole new can of worms for them.

With the linkage to the MBM case – what can I say but kerchink £££. It's not only Gerry who sees a good marketing ploy!

viv said...

Hiya all

Some more interesting thoughts on why he blogged about disposing of the fridge and buying a new one.

On thinking about it, if I was in rented accommodation and either me or my children had caused damage to property my natural reaction would be I need to go out and buy a new one. Maybe Kate had not stocked it with sufficient booze and he gave it a kicking, or, and this is a favourite of violent men, slammed the door off its hinges. It would be like Gerry to turn a negative into a positive, what a thoroughly nice guy he is buying the landlord a new fridge. But we know just how mercenary Gerry McCann actually is, he even thought the find Maddie Fund was to defend him and Kate, buy him a nice new car and pay his mortgage, so not the benovelent type at all.

I think any suggestion that Maddie's corpse may have been in it, is pretty bizarre given they had police liaison officers and two nosey little twins, lots of helpful visitors, not to mention the hygiene/smell issues.

But I do think it is likely Gerry used it to feed speculation about what they may have done with Maddie because he knew it would be impossible to prove they killed her and he intended to use the media to cashin on massive libel payments. The same with the comment about Sean developing a taste for sea bass, a known source of cadaverine. To me, this suggests a typical clever narcissist, playing with the public and so many bloggers have really took this one, as he intended, hook, line and sinker.

I think there is clear evidence he deliberately set Kate up as the killer of Madeleine. She was alone with the children, he sent David Payne, the very loud announcements of the oh so helpful Philomena to the world's press that the PJ, apparently believed Kate killed Madeleine. The PJ actually believed it was both of them who were responsible for the death of Madeleine and Gerry who disposed of the body.

viv said...

Cat woman, what a dreadful thing to do and unfortunately for her, a great piece of CCTV in action. Let us hope this continues to make thugs think twice before they act.

But I do agree the reaction and bloggings about this are absolutely shocking. It was just a cat that survived and she has apologised for what she did. The chants of she should die etc are staggering, we never hear such comments about actual child killers. To me, what The Sun/Facebook etc have actually uncovered is just how sick many members of the public really are. In fact considerably sicker than cat woman herself.

Thanks to them, the police will have to spend countless thousands to protect this woman, I am sure they will be the first to moan about their tax bill!

viv said...

Wiz, I do think it is normal marketing to first release a book and see how it sells, if it goes really well, exhaust sales of that and then release a film so do not really see anything odd about that.

But it is similar to the McCann case and it maybe that it was considered insensitive or even risking of another of the McCann's famous libel suits to release it any earlier.

That does make sense in terms of timing, because I think the halcyon days of cashing in by means of libel suits are well and truly over for Kate and Gerry McCann. Cleaning up their public image with a view to making a film is important to them IMO. Continuing with libel actions has just put them in a far worse light, notably since the action against Goncola Amaral. The amount decided upon, over one million, publicised in The Sun has seriously backfired on greedy Gerry. He did not have the insight to realise people would just think the pretty obvious really, you are a money grabbing barsteward. If he had just gone for an injunction, that would have gained public sympathy and the courts would most certainly have granted it anyway, regardless of whether or not it is felt they are guilty of Madeleine's death. But letting it be known they intended to carry on with yet another massive lible suit, another big cockup eh Gerry!

It is notable that there is information that Leicester Police hold about "court proceedings" in Portugal that they will not release. The McCann's action against Goncalo will clearly considered in detail by the police and the impact upon continuing investigations into their conduct/prospect of a future trial.

The McCanns would do well to remember, it is open to a court to find that there is no evidence to back up their claim a stranger took Madeleine. The Home Office in UK have recently said so!

By obvious implication, if there was no stranger, then it must have been them!

Di said...

Hi all

What concerns me about cat woman is that she found it to be, in her words, just a joke! Has she done this before? It would not surprise me in the least as she acted so calmly.

However, saying all that the response of some people has been truly unbelievable and totally ott.

I agree Viv the press are having a field day with this, it is also possible that the lady will lose her job with the bank.

A moment of madness yes, but a very foolish one, she is not a child and should have known better.

I cannot abide cruelty to animals or children, it should not be tolerated in any shape or form. If she gets away with this, how many more cats or other pets are going to get dumped in bins, as a joke!

viv said...

hiya Di

I must confess when I hear cat woman's apology in full, I was struck with the feeling, when you have done something absolutely dreadful the best thing you can do is offer a sincere apology. The more you try to excuse the simply inexcusable the worse it sounds. "It was just like dining in our back garden". "It was a good marketing ploy". Horrible people do same some horrible things to try and defend themselves from the revulsion they know that people feel.

It was no joke to that defenceless animal who could well have died inside that dustbin and her actions really left the onlooker in no doubt just what a cruel cat hater she really is.

I must confess I generally prefer wild animals to domestic ones, but even so, the sight of any form of animal cruelty upsets me deeply and it makes me question what sort of person they are.

I am sure neither of us would want to leave her alone with our grandchild(ren) in my own case.

Those who work with disturbed children seeking to try and prevent them from developing into psychopaths, narcissists etc particularly look for animal cruelty as an early sign and work with children to develop love and concern for animals, it teaches them a great deal about developing empathy which is so important when they become parents of humans.

But none of that changes my revulsion for sick vigilantes who just want to harass offenders and even make death threats against them. We have seen them on the McCann case and actions taken that could have put both Kate and the twins at risk of serious harm, that is completely unacceptable and I hope these people examine their own consciences and feel deeply ashamed. That would would have been punished by the state, it is barbaric to subject her to such fear and death threats.

viv said...

oh my keyboard keeps typing rubbish...well I know that is a pathetic excuse, I meant that woman of course!

Wizard said...

Maddie hunt ‘fraudster’ to get legal aid. Today’s Mail on Sunday page 42

Last night a spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann would not comment on the case.

A private detective whose firm was paid up to £500,000 from publicly donated funds to find Madeleine McCann is to get tens of thousands of pounds in legal aid.

Kevin Halligen told K&G he could find their daughter but allegedly spent the cash on a life-style of first-class flights, chauffeured cars, nightclubs and luxury hotels and goods.

Halligen is fighting extradition to America using top extradition lawyers whose fees are thought to be at least £2,000 per day.

I just wonder if the above lawyer is the same one employed by the McCanns. LOL

viv said...

Wow Wiz that is a good one, I feel a new post coming on lol!

Cheers!