4 Sep 2008

NEWS FROM CORREIO 1-4 SEPTEMBER

HI All, have not had time to be around much I am working so hard whilst the house is being done up, but thought the reports below from Correio were interesting. Clarence Mitchell was supposed to be going on to work for the DG man, first we hear he sacked their private investigator and then, it would seem, he sacked Clarence Mitchell too. I am not sure why the new firm think he is good at media spinning but I guess he did take on an almost impossible task. If this means we do not have to hear any more from him that will be a relief, and maybe the McCanns finally listened to what I am sure must have been legal advice offered, shut up. Does anyone think they will be demanding to have the process re-opened, well I am not holding my breath! Oh, and a Spanish lawyer, eight months later, um I get that feeling of deja vous again, or am I just dreaming? Clearly I should be:-))

Nite x

Viv x










Claim: prosecutor obliged to investigate Lawyer force reopening Manuel Jiménez Maysounave seeks the resumption of the process of Maddie McCann to be investigated a new runway that he provides. The Spanish lawyer says he saw a couple with a girl, "apparently Madeleine, in the bus station of Santander, about eight months." The registered letter with this information, which the CM had access, the judge should arrive today. The letter begins by explaining that took eight months to reveal this information "for not knowing that PJ spent his time working to support the hypothesis wrong to blame Kate for concealment of a corpse nonexistent." The lawyer who is identified with the number 118 of the College of Lawyers of Alava in the Basque Country, writes after having seen what it says on January 18, 2008, during a trip by bus, which fell by Santander. "Doing time in the bar of the season, came the surprise. A girl of four to five years, beautiful, seemingly Madeleine, came with a couple of 45 to 55 years. It was an unforgettable flash. I thought:" You are already found. " Manuel Maysounave describes the girl as being in "good health, happy and well dressed." About the couple, says he "was British" and not be felt "pressure" on the child. It describes a man with "white beard and little" with about 1.80 meters tall, after saying that no photographs of the accused knew Murat, leaving the air an insinuation that it could be that the raptor. Francisco Pagarete, the Portuguese-British lawyer, ignores the letter and says: "It is very strange." The spokesman for McCann, Clarence Mitchell, also says nothing know. Rogerio Alves, one of the couple's lawyers, ensures ignore this new data and ensures that they will consider what to do. Order left QUESTIONS IN AIR After months of investigations and to avoid suspicion arising from the formation of accused to remain forever in the air, the prosecutor of Portimão eventually opt for closing the file. However, the order is far from close certainties. The magistrate of Portimão in the air has left many questions about the behaviour of parents, also by removing virtually consider unlikely the possibility of abduction. The same had already made the PJ that, however, not managed to find the evidence of the death of the child. DETAILS CATALOGUE OF CRIME One of the claims of Spanish lawyer is set up wizard in the process. However, the law which clearly defines the crimes where anyone can do, which is not the case here. In the case of the disappearance of Madeleine, only the parties as the child's parents, may request that procedural quality. The running TIMES Archiving the documents happened in the last days of July. As the case has not accused prisoners, not the time went on vacation. It is still possible for players procedural challenge the closing of the prosecutor. The McCann are in a position to do so. GONÇALO IN SPAIN Goncalo Amaral, former coordinator of research to the disappearance of Madeleine who left the PJ at the end of June, was yesterday in the neighbouring country to present the Spanish edition of the book 'The Truth of the Lie. " The Portuguese edition stays on top of sales. 02 September 2008 - 00:30 am New Runway: Lawyer Spanish threat to popular action Young look like Gerry, Murat and Payne The Spanish lawyer who now revealed a new clue about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann moves further details about the couple who accompanied an English girl like Maddie, on January 18, in Santander. Contactado by CM, Manuel Maysounave says the woman who saw the bus station "was similar to Gerry, father of Madeleine '. The lawyer says that only after seeing more attention with some photos of those involved in the process, managed to see that woman's face, Gerry McCann. 'I think it could be any family. Although use of dark glasses, was very similar to Gerry 'said Maysounave. As for man, approximately 50 years, the Spanish say 'could be Robert Murat or David Payne, a friend of McCann', who was with the couple on holiday on the beach of Light and whose involvement was considered suspect in several moments of process. Although the two men are physically very different, the lawyer insists that could be one of them, 'perhaps changed in appearance. " These are details that Manuel Maysounave either report to the process and, if not called to testify, admits even proceed with a class action. 'I said before because I did not want to upset', argues the lawyer, who now calls, in a letter to the judge of Instruction of the Court of Portimão to reopen the process Maddie. 18 DE JANEIRO THERE ARE MISSING 260 DAYS Maddie was missing are 260 days when the Spanish lawyer says he has seen this girl. SECRECY OF JUSTICE The day before, had been revealed that the process would be in secret of Justice until September. MARI LIGHT The disappearance of Spanish girl was the target of all the media. KETE TELEFONA The case revived the case Mari Luz Maddie. Kate McCann telephoned parents of children Spanish. Paul Marcellin The house has two bedrooms, living room, kitchenette and a bathroom with two hits and is mobilada03 September 2008 - 00:30 am Algarve: Apartment Ocean Club costs of 200 thousand euros Casa da Luz to venda For a little over 200 thousand euros anyone can at this time, try to buy the apartment 5A of the Ocean Club, where the small Madeleine disappeared in Praia da Luz The price, according to the Correio da Manha found, is considered the area as placing in the "middle market". The owners, Britons, recently cut relations with the Ocean Club, which until recently held the administration of the property, and chose a building in Praia da Luz, the Houses & Homes, to promote the venda sadly famous T2, to the detriment of agency directly linked to the resort group's Mark Warner, also located in that the county town of Lagos. The house, comprising two bedrooms, living room, kitchenette and bathroom, comdoisacessos (a main door and the other by a small garden on the side of the pool) and furnished, has attracted the interest of many buyers - and journalists - but So far the deal has not been achieved. According to local sources, it was with some relief that the management of the Ocean Club saw him be withdrawn responsibility for the apartment that the family chose McCann for a holiday. 'The owners were very unhappy with everything that happened. We seek the keys of the house and tried everything particularly, without the intervention of the resort ', said. The Houses & Homes describes the apartment as a 'good home, beautifully situated and can be rentabilizada'. However, curiously, was not placed so far in the building or in its vicinity, any card with the words' sells itself 'and the contact number of promoter, which suggests that the business is being prepared with the utmost of discretion, either by the owners or the real estate company. DETAILS INVESTIGATION Since the night of the disappearance of Maddie, the night of May 3 last year, the apartment was the responsibility of the Judiciary but came to be twice occupied by individuals. He then be under the responsibility of the PJ. LOCATION At about 300 meters from the beach, the apartment is inserted in an urbanisation built over 20 years. It is twinned and a house located in the ground-floor. It was this house, rented by parents for holidays, which disappeared Maddie McCann. ODOUR According to the report of PJ on the case, was in the apartment that the dogs cheiraram smell of corpses and traces of bodily fluids. The former inspector Richard Amaral, who wrote a book about Maddie, believes that the child died in the fourth. 04 September 2008 - 00:30 am Casa Pia: Descuido the trade union association has been corrected Judges show behalf of minors The Association of Judges revealed the names of some of the minors allegedly victims of sexual abuse at Casa Pia in Lisbon. The disclosure was accidental and happened after that trade union body Tuesday disclosed the full judgement that the State opposed to Paulo Pedroso and that led to the conviction of error for the first crude in its temporary custody. "It was a mere oversight that already made. During several hours of the names of two witnesses were visible. But these elements would never identify people. The situation has been corrected," said the CM Antonio Martins, president of the Association, explaining that being the public process the lapse is minor. The neglect has created some discomfort in the legal operators. As the witnesses alleged victims of sexual abuse, his identity is protected. And the fact that the name is not complete does not mean that others involved not to identify. This, however, is not unprecedented. Recently, when the case concerning the disappearance of Maddie McCann was in secret of justice, the ratio of Évora released on its website a judgement. The identities were cut, but quickly understand if people were involved. A few days after the judgement was deleted.

362 comments:

1 – 200 of 362   Newer›   Newest»
ICantThinkOfAName said...

Good morning all

Non-members may be interested that 3A is now an open forum.

dylan said...

Good morning all!

Viv, thanks for the new link. Very interesting....and food for thought. This case is still very much ongoing IMO, even though it's been archived. We must all be patient but I believe that we will have JFM.

ICTOAN, thanks. I registered with 3as anyway but I haven't posted anything yet.

Docmac, I watched the "You Tube" farmer thing last night - very funny!! We used to have a similar song as kids which was a version of "Mary had a little lamb" - who liked to feed on grass, and everywhere that Mary went the lamb would follow her...ask no questions, tell no lies....

I have just found out this morning that I've passed my MSc - yay!! I won't graduate until next July but at least it will be floppy hat as opposed to mortar board and I can't wait!! :-))))

xx

Zodiac said...

Hi all,

Docmac,

Those pics are phenomenal. It looks like there has been a very heavy snowfall. There is even one with a rainbow, just beautiful. Many thanks. The youtube vid, ROFL!



Claudia,

Many thanks for sending pics. I watched the vid by Cati that you posted. I have seen it 2/3 times before and watched it again twice just now. That Fund, imo, should be investigated for the simple reason it claims the child has been abducted. Well do the PJ support this claim? Mmmmmm! Also M3assures that fees were £48.5k for 6months worldwide search for the child + expenses, giving a total of £87.6k. WTF!


The apt for sale will be a good distraction especially as the GA books approaches the UK. The apt will be in the papers. Will the book? I have decided I am not going to discuss the apt sale it is not relevant, imo, just another oh look someone trying to make money out of the abduction all money paid over the actual vale should go into our well run safe Fund.

Zodiac said...

Dylan,

CONGRATULATIONS!

Zodiac said...

(vale) value

ICantThinkOfAName said...

dylan

Congratulations!

You realise of course that there is no hope for us now as you are now way beyond my intellectual level.

Tant pis!

dylan said...

Zodiac - cheers :-)

ICTOAN, lol!! I'll just have to go back and ask to be failed, but then again, you stood me up last time..... ;-)

xx

viv said...

Dilly, MSc, FAB FAB FAB

Well done!!! I only got two mortar boards so I defer to your superior education and training :-))))

I know what real hard work it is so I am sure the stress is now off for a bit and you can sit back, relax and think how well you did !!

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

viv said...

Dilly, MSc, FAB FAB FAB

Well done!!! I only got two mortar boards so I defer to your superior education and training :-))))

I know what real hard work it is so I am sure the stress is now off for a bit and you can sit back, relax and think how well you did !!

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

dylan said...

Thank you, thank you, thank you Viv!! :-) I still feel a bit numb!

I see a few drinks on the horizon tonight!! Ooops, I mean a few glasses of water ;-)

xx

viv said...

Dilly

Well the last one I got to be a probation officer I got completely wrecked with my young friend, almost half my age, so hey go for it Hun, give ST a purpose in life:-))) She was so pretty she was getting free drinks - for both of us!!


xxxxxxxxxxxx

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, open again? Someone's going to be pissed off! :-)

viv said...

On a more serious note, I was reading a link Claudia gave the other night to the excellant blog of Paulo Reis.

The McCanns' infinity variable story seems to be that they went back to the apartment at 6 with a view to Kate bathing the children and then bringing them back out again to watch Gerry play tennis/play around that area. However, she decided the children were too tired and they were not going out again. She says that at 6.30 when Payne knocked the door she told him so, whilst stood in her towel having just had a shower.

Now I know I am struggling to remember bathing routines when children are little because it is such a long time for me but even so, this just does not add up.

Firstly, my children were bathed every night, just before bed and put into their pyjamas. It just does not make sense to take children back and bathe them, only to take them out again, so they can get dirty again and would then need washing and putting into their pyjamas. Given they got the children to bed, on their own account by about 7.15 to 7.30, this just does not add up.

So I believe the idea was that Kate would get the children bathed and into bed out of the way whilst his Lordship went and had just a bit more me time. There is something decidedly odd about David Payne going to check on her at 6.30 and there are great discrepancies in the timing as to his whereabouts with Gerry's account varying from the original one he gave on 4 May and the one he ultimately gave in September when he knew they were in big trouble. It does seem the Paynes were very much involved in what happened to Madeleine, did Kate phone David on her mobile in a panic?

The fact there are so many variables in the accounts for this particular time period demonstrate to me that this is likely to be when something very serious happened and it really just has to be that something tragic happened to Madeleine, behind that sofa in between 6 and 6.30 isdh. The other major query I have here about bathing arrangements is Kate saying she had taken a shower and so did not let David Payne into the apartment. I am visualling the scene, she has hurriedly got three children bathed and into their pyjamas from 6 pm and by 6.30 pm is even in the shower herself. This just cannot be right IMO, again, unless you are a seriously negligent mom. Two, two year olds and a three year at large in the apt whilst mom is is in the shower and Dad is playing tennis.

When my children were little I have sometimes got them ready for bed and then had a babysitter to go out. There is a set procedure, you get them bathed and into bed and then, knowing they are safe, you have a bath/shower yourself. You do not get into the shower, two hours before you are going out and when there is no one to supervise little children, it is just not possible. There is a great mystery here and it seems to me it is the key to what happened and does make Doc right, it must have been Kate or Gerry is even smarter than I give him credit for and has so manipulated the er "evidence" to make it almost impossible for him to have killed Madeleine. I think the mens' tennis tournament must have got seriously disrupted that night, but there were already serious problems in the McCann camp. Kate slept on her own the previous night and got very bruised, shouting loud and out of control. No one sees them all afternoon, what sort of mood were Kate and Gerry in and why were they not with the rest of the group, as depicted on the pic at the top of the previous thread.

Probably more questions than answers but it is just what I am thinking at the moment.

BT I have read your comments about Kate and DP I would not go so far as to say that!

Viv x

viv said...

ICTOAN Good to see you my chocolate friend and great news about 3 As, I suspect they needed to weigh the situation up as I did.

Claudia, good morning darling!


xxx

Cláudia said...

Dylan, congratulations! :-)))

Zodiac, you're welcome. Great pictures.
That was a great video. Yes, I also think that the Fund is an important issue. I totally agree re the apartment. The owner has the right to ask for the price she wishes. Only an idiot would pay what she's asking. The book is a lot more important, IMO.

Hey, Viv! :-)
I missed you! :-)

dylan said...

Viv, looool! I think I'd have to have a serious overhaul and maybe plastic surgery to get free drinks! Having said that, I wouldn't want to let ST down so I'll log on tonight and post some inane drunken ramblings - I might even name my kids again ;-)

Re the bath stuff, it doesn't make sense at all. Elly's dad (oops!) was a taxi driver who worked shifts in the night. My bathroom was fairly small but I'd still take her in the bathroom with me whilst I bathed purely because I didn't want to leave her where I couldn't hear her and I always worried that she may get upset and feel alone. All of mine were bathed every night before bed because I found that it helped to settle them and a bath is a great form of exercise and fun! I'd forgotten about those days when my bathroom was full of rubber ducks and squirty bath toys :-) They were never bathed before going out in the evening, however, as it would have upset the bedtime routine. I'm wondering if you're right about Gerry. I just can't see it being Kate, and DPs behaviour is very odd.

He said that Gerry had expressed concerns about Kate and that's why he went to check on Kate. The question is, why didn't Kate's husband go and see her if he was that concerned?? I'd have been furious if my husband and father of my kids had sent a mate round to see if I were OK! In my book, concern about family matters takes precedence over tennis!

xx

dylan said...

Thank you Claudia! xx :-)

nancy said...

ICTOAN -

Thanks for the news about the 3A's! I'm glad it's reopened to the public because there's not much point in preaching to the converted really!

nancy said...

Dylan -

CONGRATULATIONS!! IT'LL COST US A TANNER TO SPEAK TO YOU NOW!!

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

Thanks for the new thread - you posed the question:

"Does anyone think they'll be demanding the process to be reopened"?

I would hazard a guess that not in a million years. If they do they may be opening a can of worms they'd rather stay hidden!!

Although now they seem to be getting short of cash in the Fund, they may do just that to top it up! Let's face it - up to now they've been on a winning streak.

I thought their idea was to sue Goncalo Amaral too. They could be spending their life in the courtoom at this rate!


Justice for Madeleine!

Cláudia said...

Nancy, I have to say that I have no idea how the parents of a child who is still missing have the chance to ask for the investigation to be reopened and don't do it.
Rainy, quie cool day here. Not that good for doing the shopping which needs to be done.

nancy said...

Claudia -

That is so right - if they really thought someone had taken Maddie and the PJ's had stuffed up, then they would have been crying from the rooftops for the investigation to be reopened!

Sunny and warm - bit too humid - here - a bit of rain would really be welcome! We expect to have a really bad 'gota fria' here this autumn!

dylan said...

Thank you Nancy but I'm actually quite cheap ;-)

Your post:

"I would hazard a guess that not in a million years. If they do they may be opening a can of worms they'd rather stay hidden!!"

Exactly. This is the reason why they didn't hire detectives that are experienced in locating missing children, IMO. If the truth as to what happened to Maddie ever comes out then the McCanns will be in serious trouble so obvioulsy they will not not want to hire appropriate detectives nor reopen a case that could be incriminating enough to charge them, eventually. Same reason as to why they would not go back for a reconstruction, answer the PJ's questions or actively search for their daughter. I liked Zodiac's post of the other day about the humps in the McCann's carpet. I thought that summed things up perfectly!!

xx

Wizard said...

If DP did call around to apartment 5A on Gerry’s request it could be because Kate was not talking to him. K tells us they had an argument on the night of 2nd May and she slept in the kid’s room – she also tells us that G ignored her all evening – the cause of the argument. The whole T9 were there at the Tapis Bar on 2nd May why does it matter so much to have G’s undivided attention all evening unless of course he was too busy talking and laughing all night with one of the other T9 females. This could be the root of her anger.

I’m not convinced that DP was asked to call round by Gerry just to see how Kate was it could have been contrived to produce a time line which looked normal and what better way of not letting him into the apartment than to appear at the door in a towel. Could this all have been pre-planned? Were we not told that Kate had a bath at 7.00pm? Being so squeaky clean just doesn’t fit in with dirty nappies thrown in the wheel well of the car not to mention rotting chicken.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

dylan

"Cheap' is not a description I would associate with you.

Di said...

Good afternoon all

Back home again now. We were going to travel tomorrow, but seeing the torrential rain that is forecast we decided to leave this morning, a wise choice I think.

Dylan

Congratulations!!! enjoy your celebrations ;o)))

I totally agree the routine on the evening of the 3rd was extremely strange. If the children had been going to the Tapas bar with Kate & Gerry then yes, I could understand them being bathed and changed for the evening, but we all know this never happened.

Kate says she had a shower and we know from the reported times the children would not have been in bed. This is not what I would call responsible parenting, anything could have happened to any of the children, or perhaps it did!!

bath theory said...

Hi Viv

'...BT I have read your comments about Kate and DP I would not go so far as to say that!

Viv x ...'

I have not said it as a fact I have merely said COULD it be. The word I used was a possible scenario. It seems credible to me given their negligent manner in previous days that she and he could be making out and been interrupted. I particularly enjoy having a quickie with my wife (who doesn't) but have never been caught as we make sure they are settled and secure. That may or may not have been the case that night. Certainly, something strange is likely to have happened in that apartment around this time as the PJ have said 6.00pm to 8.30pm hold the key. They could not get to the bottom of it with evidence - who knows they probably discussed whether their was a sexual liasion between them. Money, sex and drugs are powerful motives.

In any event what I like about this blog is that we are free to discuss different thoughts and scenarios. None of us know for sure that they are guilty it is just based on what we feel, have seen and have deduced. Of course we all believe they are in it up to their eyeballs and are being shifty.

We are not a legal courtroom but we are a group who base our lives around a certain degree of ethical and moral fortitude which we feel was lacking that week in these two. So Viv, I guess what I am saying is could this have happened and given that, any scenerio discussed on here could not be seen as going that far.

Whatever happened that night went 'as far' as causing a 3yr old girl to vanish into thin air. So the real question and it has been since the very first morning I saw the news is 'how far' the parents are involved.

dylan said...

Thank you Di! Weather's bloody awful today and I'm glad I got my outdoor painting finished yesterday.

ICTOAN - I secretly thought you respected me ;-)

I've started on the mineral water already! I was having a chat with a friend and remembered this song:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HkGS263lGsQ

One of my childhood faves. Such a shame he's no longer with us. I'm feeling all nostalgic now!

xx

bath theory said...

What scenario do you think happened between 6.00pm and 8.30pm that night?

bath theory said...

Directed to all but especially interested in Viv's

Wizard said...

I’m still not convinced Madeleine was alive at 6.00pm. The crèche staff statements, although I don’t think they are intentionally lying, could well be wrong. 10 little blond girls all around the same age as Madeleine, the parents sign the children in and sign them out. Kids going one day and not the next, sometimes in the morning and sometimes in the afternoon, the kids are there for only a week not enough time to know them let alone the parents who would only be seen for a short amount of time each day. It all sounds a recipe for confusion.

On the 3rd May we are told the crèche took the children to the beach, to the tennis courts and to the swimming pool. That’s a lot of external activities outside of the crèche but not a single person has come forward to say they saw Madeleine at any of these excursions.

Even K & G never comment on seeing her at the pool or tennis court and surely they would have been able to see her. Things just fail to add up.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Dylan

To clear up any misunderstanding, in my neck of the woods, to call a woman "cheap" is a term of denigration. I have heard my late mother use it often with a sneer in her voice.

Hence I don't consider you "cheap" and besides you are after all....... a lady.

dylan said...

Hi BT,

I still stick to my original scenario that Madeleine was given sedatives to get her to sleep and she reacted to them. I think that G&K tried to revive her and failed and that the blood spray was connected to the attempts to revive, somehow. This would all have happened before they went to dinner and DP was party to what happened as were several of the other T9 who had to concur because they knew they were all guilty of neglect. As for disposing of her body, (it pains me to talk about 'a body') the sedatives would have been apparent in a PM and this would have been known by the McCanns. Therefore, the accident could not be reported in the normal way.

I'm not of the opinion that Maddie was murdered. Just that it was an accident that had to be covered up and before ST's cronies harp on about libel, this is just my opinion and conjecture only.

Docmac said he agreed with your theory in your email to him. Can you tell us what you think happened?

xx

Wizard said...

Adding a little bit further to my last post. O’Brien went to pick his daughter up from the crèche in the late afternoon but can’t say whether Madeleine was there or not. Bridgette O’Donnell was watching her daughter at the tennis courts but did not see Madeleine there. I wonder who didn’t see her down at the beach either.

dylan said...

Wizard, that's true. Nobody has come forward to mention that they saw her during this time. Strange that.

ICTOAN - I did know what "cheap" implies. I was only kidding, but thanks for saying I'm a lady. Being called a lady never hurts :-)

xx

Di said...

Dyl

What are you still doing on here??

You should be putting on your glad rags!!!

Enjoy your evening. :o)))

Off now, see you all tomorrow.

LittleGreyCell said...

DILLIE MSC,

- CONGRATULATIONS - !!!!!!!!!!

Fantastic news!

XXX LGC and Opus :>)

Cláudia said...

Hello, all.
Bath theory, as you know I have no legal background and have no experience regarding crime investigations. From the beginning I was never much of a theorist because, to be honest, in these types of cases almost all possibilities have to be considered and checked. Having said that, I trust the opinion of the man who was in charge of the investigation. :-)

docmac said...

Just want to say

Well done Dyl! Excellent news. Now go and party.

BBFN

Di said...

Hi Claudia

I am with you on that one!

IMO GA knows exactly what happened to Madeleine. Reading various threads on 3A's the truth is slowly slipping out, and about time.

Hopefully his voice will be heard and every possible avenue will be investigated.

Gerry & Kate

Perhaps you would like to make a broadcast on TV about the reward money, also the possibility of the reward finding your daughter Madeleine??

Or could it be that the donors of the reward money have retracted their offers!!!

Di said...

Should have said back but only briefly.

Cláudia said...

Hey, Doc. 97 year old lady starting to respond to medication! :-)))))) Just talked to her not so young either daughter (she's 78). Her infection markers (don't ask me to be more specific. That's my non medical jargon) are decreasing. Not out of the woods according to the doctors but she's speaking a little and recognising close family members. I always thought she was going to make it to 100. Maybe she is! :-)

Cláudia said...

Di, :-). Agree with everything you said.

Di said...

Claudia

I keep thinking, if this was my child with all that reward money being offered, i would be broadcasting it wherever possible. However, we know that is not the case. So, the question is WHY??

The only possible conclusion for me is, the reward money is no longer there. IMO

Cláudia said...

Di, that is certainly a possibility.

Di said...

Posted on 3A's by Icequeen.

Worth remembering..


December 20th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
This is what the Spanish (or Portuguese) TV channel Antena 3 revealed re Chaplins and other stories. According to them Chaplin’s was on May 2nd. I have a feeling that the programme is on YouTube:

“Spanish TV channel Antena 3 did a special on Madeleine last night that was the best and most complete of the ones so far. Clarence Mitchell was interviewed for the programme but, needless to say, he had nothing new to say.

What was very interesting was that they actually interviewed the waiters from the Tapas restaurant. The result is what we have said so many times in this forum but have not got official back-up so far:
- NO they did not regularly check on the children
- YES Russel O´Brien was missing almost the whole dinner
- YES they dismissed a paid childminder only a couple of hours before dinner
- YES they drank 14 bottles of wine
- YES they left the children alone every night
- YES the previous night they had dined at Chaplin´s which is at 5-6 minutes walking distance

According to the investigation of the highly reputed journalists involved, there are 3 hours which have not been accounted for properly by any of the Tapas 9, a pact of silence and lots of contradictions. The police has suspected of the McCanns from day one, and their behaviour is NOT what you would expect from parents in their circumnstances.”

Di said...

Can we assume then that R O'Brien ordered the Steak!!

Di said...

14 Bottles of wine!!

I think they would need it with the plot so far!!

Di said...

Off now, see you all tomorrow.

Enjoy your evening.

docmac said...

Great news about the old lady Claudia :-)

Di, if I had said those things - again - there would have been hell to pay ;-)

Night to you.

Cláudia said...

Doc, yes, good news, fortunately. Not too optimistic, but yesterday the picture was darker. At this age we never know. Things change very quickly. Let's hope for the best.

bath theory said...

Can you provide me a link Claudia to where Amaral has stated what he believed happened as I am unaware of it. Maybe it was debated when I was on holiday?

PS What I think happened is close to but not exactly what I posted on here the other day re DP + KH and FP getting dragged in amongst others. I gave a 'possible scenario' and asked for comment.

I am still very interested in what Viv and obviously Claudia who picks up the Portugese vibe think. If you feel unable to share it openly then Viv & Doc have my e-mail. Anyone who wants my current likely theory can get my e-mail from them.

Cheers All. Now must finish my planning for next week.

:)

PS 95 per cent (south shields poll)think they are negligent and 61 per cent think they are guilty of ? McCann files has more details. THIS is despite all the media tampering. Clarence is leaving at the right time it appears.

Cláudia said...

Bath Theory, what Mr Amaral believes is in his book. He believes an accident happened.

docmac said...

Claudia

You know I disagree :-(

southerncross said...

Evening everyone

Just wanted to share the "congratulation theme".

Dylan well done!!! You
should be very proud of yourself, and I hope you have a lovely evening celebrating :)

Cláudia said...

Doc, I know you do.
But you know I have reasons to agree. :-)

Cláudia said...

Hi, SC.

docmac said...

Hi SC

I've been trying to send you some photos of the storm, but g-mail is having a problem doing it. I'll keep trying :-)

docmac said...

Claudia

;-)

southerncross said...

Hiya Claudia and Doc

Already cold here, leaves starting to fall. It is as if we never really had a summer :(

Doc, a photo of my beloved Kaap would be much appreciated.

Claudia, hope doc shared my email with you

nancy said...

BT - two theories from me:

(1) I think Madeleine was fine until being given sedatives to sleep through the night along with the twins - and that's why Kate later kept checking the twins to make sure they were breathing.

They sedated the children to get an uninterrupted night out with their friends and that's why they didn't bother to use the MW baby sitting service. I think that Madeleine died through an accidental overdose. They tried to revive her but failed, hence Madeleine's DNA detected by the cadaver dogs.

2). Madeleine woke up, walked out of the unlocked door, down those steep steps, fell and was fatally injured only to be discovered when the McCanns and their friends came back from the tapas bar. They all panicked, carried Madeliene into the apartment to try and revive her but couldn't. If, as Kate said, they had left the door open that could easily have happened.

These are just theories and can't be substantiated unfortunately, but just why was the door left unlocked when they knew that Madeleine often woke during the night, and also from time to time played games by hiding herself from them. It almost seemed like an invitation for someone to gain entry to the apartment!

None of us know the exact truth but I don't believe and never have believed in the predator theory, especially bearing in mind that Kate lied about the window being left open, and the door locked, and then changed her mind later. Also no evidence was found at all of anyone entering the apartment and taking Madeleine!

I don't believe a word of what the whole of the tapas lot have said in their statements - they are all obviously trying to cover themselves and were just worried about the harm it would do to their careers and reputations if it was discovered it was their neglect that led to Madeleine's disappearance!

Also as a normal Mum, she would have been running around like a headless chicken looking for Madeleine before running to the tapas bar, and would surely not have left the twins alone if she was thought a paedophile had taken Madeleine.

docmac said...

SC, there are many more than one :-) Which e-mail should I share? They're all in Afrikaans :-))

Zodiac said...

Hi all,

Claudia,

You have mail with an attachment, that's if I have done it properly.
Spot ST at the end.

Read you all tomorrow.

nancy said...

BT -

Another theory myself and others have is that it was all a premeditated scam and that Madeleine is in a safe place somewhere - why else did they have everything in place immediately Madeleine went missing and made celebrities overnight! Everything was in place to start up a company selling paraphenalia in her name, the fund was put into motion, celebrities and Sky TV involved, along with Gordon Brown and a few billionaires to boot. Just how did that all happen so quickly with everything falling into place, pictures of Madeleine printed and on show, visits to the Pope and the White House etc. Unfortunately Gezza wiped off all the calls and messages from his mobile phone, so we will never know how he managed to get everything up and running so smoothly and without a hitch!!

Talk about the mystery of the century - no wonder the whole world is still talking about it!

I am convinced and so are the majority of the public that the McCanns and their tapas friends, know much much more than they are letting on!

docmac said...

Er Zodiac, before you go ask Claudia to e-mail you the new pics.

Otherwise, sleep well.

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

I certainly agree that the two fundamental things that are fatal to Kate's story are her saying "they have taken her" but leaving the twins alone. This is just not a plausible or possible thing for a mom to do. The second of course is failing to look for her and coming to that conclusion. What on earth would hold a normal mom back from going out screaming her name and looking for her, I did that when I lost Nanday! Rather than do that Kate rang her mom insisting she wanted a Priest. Sitting on her bed all night and doing that really speaks for itself, she knew Maddie had gone for good.


Viv x

nancy said...

Goodnight one and all - nearly midnight here, so off to bed with a good book!


Nx

docmac said...

Careful Nancy, you'll get dizzy with all those hypotheses :-)

Two things we agree on - they're responsible and they are liars.

docmac said...

Viv

You going to be around for a while? I need to send you an urgent mail.

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

You are absolutely right.

It seems the McCanns did everything normal parents wouldn't do - but then they aren't normal parents are they? If they were they wouldn't have left their babies in the first place! If they are not guilty of anything else, they are guilty of gross neglect and will have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

But I think it was much more than just leaving their children - something else went on that evening that sealed Maddie's fate and the whole world who have been following this case will find out the truth one of these days!

The wheel turns!!


Nx

southerncross said...

Hello Viv

I posted a few nights ago how I searched frantically when my two dogs decided to "take the road". Very abnormal behavior the McCanns displayed..passive to say the least.

Hope you have received my email

viv said...

Evening all by the way!

Nancy, I do not believe they left the patio door open. We have the evidence of Mrs Fenn, which I would much rather believe that on 1 May Madeleine was crying for one hour fifteen minutes, but Mrs Fenn heard the key as the came through the front door at 11.45. I can think of no reason why they would have changed and decided to leave all their valuables unlocked in that way. They clearly value material possessions. Additionally, their original story was the shutter was damaged and the window jemmied. It was only when Mark Warner pointed out that was a lie that they came up with the oh we left the door open scenario. Additionally, I do not think Maddie could have had an accident like that because they had insufficient time to clear up prior to calling the police. I believe there are a number of witnesses who describe Gerry hanging around that night and at least one, Mr Smith who says he saw Gerry carrying her off, I think there is another one too. There are also witnesses I believe who say Kate was back at the apartment far earlier. The PJ have blood splatter and a larger area of blood marked out behind the sofa where they removed the tiles. I believe she did have a head injury in that area. The police have always thought she suffered a head injury, we did get the report possibly she fell down the steps. Surely they would have found blood on those steps and they would have been far more difficult for them to scrub! The sniffer dog also smelt corpse near the wardrobe in their bedroom and it would seem the body was taken out via their patio. The dog did not pick up such a good scent of death on the flower bed below, maybe he just picked that up from Maddie being taken that way, perhaps? I always come back to that officer with Rebelo jumping up and down on the patio (Oct 2007) testing the weight of it, were they checking to see if the body was briefly concealed there, perhaps underneath it prior to removal? We still have no satisfactory explanation as to why OB was missing for such a lengthy period. In fact it would seem he was hardly ever at the table. Also Gerry calling the quiz lady over at 9.30 seems to be a red herring it was a few nights previously, as we now know. I think he and OB were very busy and by they Kate means those two, I think she was just overwrought and completely distraught and that is quite understandable really. Bad enough your child died but imagine her just being taken away..no last kisses, no funeral, no nothing, no chance to grieve and recover.

I do agree there is much to suggest this was all planned but I certainly do not think Maddie is still alive, I wish!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

SC, no, not yet! :-)

Zodiac, check the e-mail and replied. PMSL! But the guy in the picture was not Doc! :-) I'll e-mail you the most recent ones!

Viv, hi!!! :-)

viv said...

Hiya Doc,

Will be around for about another 30, plan to have an early night so await your email with great intrigue:-))

Eat your heart out ST, I am not telling you:-)))


xx

docmac said...

Sent, Viv

Haha, Claudia. Who did Zodiac think was me?

Cláudia said...

I really don't remember. But you were not on any of the storm photos you sent me so it couldn't be you! :-) Or was I distracted?

Cláudia said...

Doc, that last one was for you, of course.
Don't you want to do a forward to me? :-)

viv said...

Hiya SC

Actually I did read your post about frantically searching for your dog and it was an identical description to how I behaved when I lost Nanday and finished up having to get the fire brigade to rescue him and Luke off a high roof! This is the really extraordinary thing, as normal human beings we display far more love and concern for our beloved pets than Kate and Gerry have ever demonstrated for Madeleine. I know if I had not recovered Nanday I would have been completely distraught and wracked with guilt because I took him out on my shoulder at night and he got frightened by the hose pipe near the pond thinking it was a snake and took off. I have never done that again, but once last year we left him for a few minutes in a small cage we take him out in or to the vets etc. Luke went outside and I heard him rather sterly say Nandaaaaaaaaay, he had lifted the door open with his beak and was up on my bedroom window ledge but came straight down again when his dad caught him. Now he is only allowed in the garden in that small cage and under very close supervision, and this is a parrot, not Maddie. Words really fail me to think how they treated their children, it just beggars belief!

Claudia, hello darling!

Viv x

docmac said...

Forwarded. You were distracted! Send Zodiac one of my old med school pictures, then she will be really confused :-)))))

Cláudia said...

Doc, LOL.
That will take me time to find! :-)

Hello, querida amiga!!!!

docmac said...

Jeez, just mentioning my picture empties the blog! I didn't think I was that ugly :-))

Night all. Viv, I'll wait a while to see if you reply to my mail.

x

docmac said...

Oh, you're burying my pics on drive W now? Fine :-))

Boa noite, amiga.

southerncross said...

Goodnight, Viv nice reading your opinions again

Cláudia said...

Doc, all my important stuff is elsewhere. For obvious reasons. :-)

Boa noite, if you're going! :-)

docmac said...

Whatever, Claudia

By the way I would like you to delete all pictures and videos I let you take of my mop. I do NOT want them ending up on the net :-)))))

docmac said...

And now I really am off. Sleep well.

viv said...

Hiya Doc, I have about four from you but think I have replied to the one you want answering - just going to read the rest!


cc'd to Claudia

xx

viv said...

Thanks SC

My kids do not always value my opinions:-)))

Sleep well xxxxxxxxx

Cláudia said...

Thanks, Viv.

Doc, of course not. All your mop pictures are secure in a safe! ;-)
Dorme bem, querido amigo!
xxxx

viv said...

BTW Nancy if you are still around, I also believe the children were also drugged, certainly the twins! It would be impossible to try and pass off any head injury as accidental death if she had been heavily sedated causing her to fall. Four year olds can be pretty wild! What if she was jumping around ont he sofa whilst Kate was in the shower? Negligence drugs whatever they had a lot to hide! but I still think it is likely more sinister even than that x The Fund, too quick, too slick, to obviously on the make and too obviously making them look like they just won the lottery! So I have always had to think only people with serious PD could behave like this!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Good night, all.
Bed is calling! :-)
xxxx

Cláudia said...

The Sun have just put the dog video online. let's just hope it gets to youtube before it goes missing. The most damaging stuff ever in the UK, in spite of the very biased article. Watched the video twice and I'm speechless.

Cláudia said...

Eddie e Keela

It is now on youtube. :-) There is no spinning that.

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHJjpXii9o

nancy said...

Good morning all -

In spite of the very telling evidence on their video the Sun today still insists on making comments regarding the inefficiency and wrong decisions made by the PJ's.

Just why are the Sun bending over backwards to protect the McCanns and discounting what these clever dogs reacted to. I would have thought that anyone seeing those would be have no further doubts of how sensitive and clever these wonderful dogs really are.

bath theory said...

The video is here

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/maddie/article1651651.ece

I am aware Claudia what Amaral believes is in the book but unfortunately as you are aware we have no english version. That is why I asked you. Never mind.

Thank you Nancy for sharing your possible scenarios.

bath theory said...

Nancy
It is likely that the monies being used by the fund are being paid to journalists so when an article is written and tries to dress opinions up as facts then it naturally follows that this sort of 'journalism' is not balanced. Given that a 3yr old has vanished under such circumstances you have to ask why such articles have appeared and one conclusion is ...MONEY !

viv said...

Hiya all and a special thanks to Claudia for breaking on here the release of the video. In spite of The Sun showing us just 4 minutes of a two and half hour video it could not be more conclusive. Yes Keela will find any old human blood but she found it in the exact spot Eddie found a corpse, it is horrifying. Have you read the other article in The Sun, the McCanns' spokesman says there is no corroborating evidence, this would seem to confirm that the McCanns have now parted company with the Pink Spinster.

I wonder what the little pink item is that Eddie was hurling around, is is Kate's top or Maddie's it looks very small.

The video proves that what Goncalo says is the exact truth, he spoke of Eddie's excited reaction, rearing to get into the flat and the only reaction to cars, the McCanns', yep!


xxxxxxxx

viv said...

Did you pick up that comment of Mr Grimes, in view of scientific means used this may mean no DNA evidence is found. Does he mean the Mcs used to some scientific method to make damn sure they destroyed it, I would love to watch the whole of that video!

Nancy, at the outset the Mcs signed and exclusive deal with Murdoch, his titles I think are Fox in US, Sky, The Sun and The News of the World. I think Gerry and the Pinkster have parted company probably because DG man is refusing to pay out any more - maybe he is worried about is own reputation, not just the waste of his cash, and so increasingly Gerry will be using these friendly titles to spin himself. The thing is though Sky is not being exactly friendly to him in allowing the public to write just what they think!


xxx

Wizard said...

I have just been viewing on youtube the dogs at work. It makes very chilling viewing. The smell of human blood in the bedroom cupboard and behind the sofa are not places that can be explained away by nose bleeds etc. It is extremely unlike to impossible that blood from this source would be found in these out of the way places. The dogs indicated sites in apartment 5A which would make very good temporary hiding places for the corpse of a dead child. Again the boot of the hire car is a good place to hide a small child from the sight of onlooker whilst transportation takes place.

After viewing this video there is no doubt in my mind what happened to Madeleine.

viv said...

Hello Wizard and good to hear from you,

I entirely agree, it not only confirms that little Maddie died, but where they put her body. It is really awful.

Justice for Maddie, the demise of the Pink Spinster is a help!


xxxxxxx

Wizard said...

Good Morning Viv,

I’ve always believed Madeleine died in apartment 5A because logically everything pointed in that direction. However, somewhere at the back of my mind I always hoped I was wrong. I have to say the video leaves no doubt now and although it is always what I thought I find myself a little shocked not to say sad to be proved right.

Wizard said...

If we look at this logically we are told the smell of death means that a corpse would have had to be in situ for 2 hours for the dogs to detect the scent.

Working on this premises is it logical to assume that a would be abductor kills Madeleine and returns 2 hours later to remove the body? Hiding it twice before removing it?

In this scenario and taking into consideration the time line the McCanns give us would this be possible? Madeleine was according to Gerry and Kate alive when they left her at 8.30pm and just after 9pm Gerry checks his children and says Madeleine was alive then. Less than an hour for the aroma of death to be present in the apartment – the dogs would not have been able to pick it up but of course they did.

The human blood detected by the dogs was found in obscure places where a nose bleed, or something similar would not have been found. Blood behind the sofa, which is pushed against the wall, in the living room, and also in a bedroom cupboard – nowhere else. Both of these places appear ideal for hiding a small body.

It is logical to assume the presence of blood at the very same sites the aroma of a corpse is found is coincidental? Logically both are related.

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

Well we clearly know Maddie's body had been removed from the apartment by 10 pm. As a body has to be two hours old to start exuding those smells Maddie must have died by 8 at the latest - when the McCanns, on their own account, were still in the apartment. The McCanns and their friends have also supplied so called evidence i.e. Tanner, that Maddie was removed at 9.15, Smith saw a person he believes was Gerry carrying a limp child so that again puts time of death even earlier. There can be no doubt one of them killed her, but for the police it is the who and the how exactly and what happened to the body thereafter they need to discover IMO.

There are clear indications to me that Gerry is now in charge of spinning! Good news on the Justice for Maddie front, this man is hopeless!

Did you notice the concerted attacks once more on this and Claudia's blogs the night before this story broke on ?ST's , which I believe Gerry has had put into the public domain in desperation knowing it is going to come out. Better to release it in his own way, he figures with some perverse comments in The Sun!

Well tough luck Gerry, The video, even just four minutes of the two and half hour horror show really does speak for itself!

Viv x

Zodiac said...

Hi ALL,

The youtube vid says it all. The look on the dog owner's face in the apt speaks voulmes to me.

Docmac/Claudia,

I did not think Doc was in any of the storm pics. The e-mail I sent to Claudia I wrote 'What a hunk!' that was about the guy in my e-mail (Claudia might send it to you Doc to clarify what I meant) although the guy in the first e-mail of Doc's pics is rather attractive. I got the second e-mail with the storm pics from Claudia (thank you) Doc. I looked at them before I read the posts on here, OMG amazing!. Whilst reading the posts on here those pics get jumping onto my head. I think the Youtube vid and the GA book that is on it's way to the UK will have the same effect on those residing at Rotley Manor. People it seems are already bailing out, getting as far are away as possible before the waves comes crashing around and everything they cover cannot escape. Like any storm some people think they have managed to distance themselves far away from it to have any effects of it but that is not always the case, sometimes they get caught whether they like it or not. The more that comes to the surface regarding this case the more damning it is for all those involved. I include the so called Celeb's who have latched onto and used this case as vehicle for their own interests, their brown-nosing and @rsel*cking will be their ruination and so it should be. I did not believe in the Abductor of PdL on the 4/5/07, still don't and never will and that was before the extracts of GA book and the Youtube vid. J4M, children are not disposeable even if you have paid to have them, imo.

Wizard said...

Viv - I’ve always thought the abduction theory was only an academic hypothesis but the video clearly blows this hypothesis out of the water.

Claudia being attacked on ST’s site speaks volumes – some of course would say the best form of defence is attack and this is clearly the game plan that is in play at the moment.

Cláudia said...

Hi, guys. Still sleepy!
HAd difficulty falling asleep after watching the video.
As I wrote elsewhere, never will anyone convince me that the dogs got it all wrong. Never will I be convinced that the dogs could get it wrong only in that car, in that apartment and on those clothes. When someone shows me that someone who shares 15 out of 19 markers with Madeleine and that that person died in apartment 5A, then I may change my mind. Until that happens I'm sticking with the dogs.

Wizard said...

Todays report in the Daily Mail (copied below) is from Expresso a weekly whose editor has a personal grudge against Amaral and wrote a nasty article about him.

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 9:09 AM on 05th September 2008
Kate McCann has branded 'a disgrace' the Portuguese detective who led the hunt for her daughter.
In her first interview since being cleared of involvement in Madeleine's disappearance, Mrs McCann openly criticises Goncalo Amaral for his role in the inquiry and his decision to write a book about the search.
Mr Amaral, 48, was sacked from the investigation for briefing against Mrs McCann and husband Gerry.
Kate McCann has blasted Amaral, who has published a book about Madeleine's disappearance
The couple were made suspects while he was in charge of the case and had previously declined to speak out against him publicly.
But the lifting of their arguido status has freed the McCanns to vent their anger.
In an interview with the Portuguese newspaper Expresso, published tomorrow, Mrs McCann, 40, is asked what she thinks of Amaral and his book, a bestseller in Portugal. She replies: "It's a disgrace."
The McCanns' animosity towards him has long been known in circles close to the couple but until now they have kept their counsel, not wishing to harm the police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance in May last year a few days before her fourth birthday.
But the inquiry has now been shelved after Portuguese authorities ruled there was no evidence to bring charges against either the McCanns or Robert Murat, the only other official suspect in the case, whose status has also been lifted.
With no other leads, police have wound up the inquiry.

Wizard said...

Returning briefly to the dog video findings - Kate has been quoted a while back saying. “Whatever happened to Madeleine was not as a consequence of being left alone". This video I believe proves what she says to be true.

Cláudia said...

Zodiac, sorry for the misunderstanding! LOL

That video is amazing. Of course ist's not new news because we all knew the dogs had reacted. But suddenly, seeing it makes it real. The Sun did a very smart (but equally coward) thing. Since they are not allowed to write what they really want, they write what they have to but then publish the most damning thing ever published in the UK.

Cláudia said...

Bath Theory, a have a summary of the most important aspects of the book on my blog. It's in July.

Zodiac said...

'and also in a bedroom cupboard'

Wizard,

One of the questions she refused to answer was about the contents of a closet.

No wonder he looked the way he did when he came out of the Police station in PT, he probably saw much more daming evidence than the 4 mins the public have seen.

Shame on them and all who support this pair, IMO.

J4M.

nancy said...

Bath Theory -

Quite right - of course the Murdoch press will print anything that sells their downmarket rags. The Sun gives the video prominence on it's front page so as to lure the public into buying, while at the same time keeping the McCanns happy by printing just what they want to hear, to avoid being sued of course!

Zodiac said...

That video is amazing. Of course 'ist's not new news because we all knew the dogs had reacted. But suddenly, seeing it makes it real. The Sun did a very smart (but equally coward) thing. Since they are not allowed to write what they really want, they write what they have to but then publish the most damning thing ever published in the UK.'

Claudia my thoughts also.

Niki said...

Hi Viv and everyone! Hope you are all well and have had a nice summer! I have been busy like h..., and look forward to a nice quiet winter!

--

Have noticed that there are many theories around again. Something has been nagging me for a long time, and I guess you all think I have "lost it" when I tell you what...

When my oldest son was two and his brother newborn, I had the baby on my bed, and the proud big brother was playing on the floor next to him. I left the room for three steps in to the bathroom to get a new diper, turn again and get hold of a swope that my eldest holds over his head ready to bang on to his baby brother... I'm still terrified of the thought of what could have happend if I did not stop that swope in the air... And belive me, I never left the two year old alone in the same room as the baby even for a second...

Madeleine had two younger siblings, togheter they would have been stronger than her. There might even have been another child in the appartment early afternoon to play. Children can play ruff, accidents can happen when unattendent...
So what if...? Parents would go through fire for their kids, to protect them from a truth that is more horrible than anyone can live with. A "Maddie-monster" is created to "protect" the other children from the truth. Other grown-ups would help out to protect children, but I don't think they would keep quiet for so long if they knew the parents had killed their child! They would not live with the fear of the parents harming their other kids too!

Ok, it is hot here, I might have gotten a sun-stroke, so pls Viv, delete this post if you want, but I would like to know if Docmac thinks it is possible that accidently Madeleine could have died from a ruff game with her siblings.

Cláudia said...

Zodiac, I still can't believe they put it online!

Nikki, welcome back!

viv said...

Hiya Niki and great to see you again!!

Given that Kate suggests in her own evidence she went and had a shower and left those three little ones to their own devices an accident cannot be ruled out and this was the intepretation given by Goncalo I think. He has never suggested the McCanns intentionally killed Madeleine.

It seems quite clear to me from the now quite considerable evidence we have that Madeleine died behind that sofa. If she was swanking about in the absence of her mom as I know kids that age do it is not inconceivable that she went head first over the back of the sofa and onto the floor. The number one blood spot that is marked in the PJ picture of blood spatter evidence in that area is on the floor and the PJs did think she suffered a nasty head injury. If that did happen it begs the question, then why the cover up? Given the tragic consequences no one would have really criticised or blamed Kate if they had just come clean. I think the cover up may have been due to the fact that the children were drugged to make sure they did not wake up again. If someone sustains a serious injury, the blood pressure drops seriously, add to that sedation and the results could be catastrophic. What I am suggesting is that the fall alone, if that is what happened may not have killed her, but when combined with sleep medication it did, hence the cover up.

I understand what you are suggesting but think that is very unlikely. In my own experience a four year old would be literally twice as tough and strong as a two year old and I just do not think the twins would match her.

Viv x

nancy said...

Wizard -

Thanks for that Daily Mail report!

"Kate McCann has branded as a disgrace the Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral who led the hunt for her daughter. She openly criticises him for his role in the Enquiry and his decision to write a book about the search".

Well Kate - as one of your defenders frequently says -

"Pot, kettle, black" comes to mind!!

It's alright for the McCanns to go on a world wide publicity tour and advertise Madeleine's eye defect which any fool could see would seal her fate! And they have made an amount of money many parents who have lost their children could only dream about, but they begrudge the detective who spent many more hours looking for their daughter than they ever did, from having the opportunity to voice his thoughts on Madeleine's disappearance. It seems there is one rule for them and another for everyone else.

The sooner this couple fall from their lofty perch the better!!

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

Yes, there does seem to be a bit of adverse publicity on Sky with all those comments from the antis being printed. The Murdoch press seem to be between the devil and the deep blue sea, trying to please the McCanns and their readers the majority of whom they know don't believe a word the McCann camp says!!

Thanks for your last night's response to mine too. I agree that there might have been blood to clear up if Madeleine had fallen on the steps, although I remember my son falling down some concrete steps at the age of 3 and he was left with a huge lump, but virtually no blood.

As Docmac said, I'll make myself dizzy with all these theories and contradictions.

All I am 100% certain of is there was no abductor, because there was no 'window' of opportunity, despite what Kate McCann said to try and implicate one.

Newsflash!!

They are just talking on Sky News about the video of the sniffer dogs and their reactions implicating the McCanns in the disappearance of Madeleine.

Watch this space as they say!!

Nx

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

I think Goncalo probably felt that on the basis of the evidence the PJ had the McCanns would evade justice. He has written his book so that people will be left in no doubt they are responsible for her death.

I continue to believe that LP and others are investigating other areas including fraud and it will be this that brings down Kate and Gerry McCann, in the end.


I also believe there is growing evidence the McCanns are now conducting their own publicity campaign as the financial backers and money continue to just ebb away from them. The Daily Mail article is another example, Kate's contribution, Gerry's is in The Sun.

I really had to make a wry smile when I read this:

"The McCanns' animosity towards him has long been known in circles close to the couple but until now they have kept their counsel,"


Kept their counsel my arse, I have never seen such a vindictive campaign of racist hatred against an decent police officer in all my life.

Gonc lardy boy - go to hell where you belong "Rosiepops"!

Zodiac said...

'The sooner this couple fall from their lofty perch the better!!'

Nancy,

The more that is revealed in public, my opinion is that they could possible be pushed from it rather than fall.

J4M

docmac said...

Hi Niki

Yes, anything is possible. But how would that scenarion fit in with the widespread markers placed on the wall indicating (one has to assume) some form of bodily fluid. And why would the parents conceal a purely accidental death?

Oh god, the video of the dogs. No wonder the McCanns were so desperately trying to discredit them. Hell!

PS - it appears that Dyl must have had some party last night :-))

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

Well I suspect "Rosiepops" may feel pushed to go very much on the offensive/defensive on Sky forums - that should be an interesting read. In the meantime, seems like Claudia and I are getting a bit of a pasting, heck, how will we cope:-)))


xxxx

nancy said...

Niki -

Nice to see you back -

I too remember my son of 2, when my daughter was born, not actually trying to hurt her, but he got one of my lipsticks and as he had seen me do when making up, painted her lips with it, and at the same time was trying to rock her a little too strongly in her cot! Just his way of playing a game of course, which is what two year olds do, especially little boys!

You certainly need eyes in the back of your head with little children of that age, and should never let them out of your sight for a moment.

Especially not leave them alone to go out wining and dining. Just why did these professional doctors in the tapas group not realise that!!

Some doctors - some parents!!!

viv said...

Hiya Doc,

There was clearly a horrible injury there, really does not bear thinking about too much. Poor little Maddie.

I wonder if Payne got called because he is a heart surgeon, perhaps more of a hands on help than a cardiologist.

Viv x

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

Don't lose any sleep over their comments! I saw one time I was called a liar for saying I hadn't registered on the 3A's. The only blogs I've ever registered with are this one, Alsabella's,and the DX, and resent being called a liar, but that's just what we've come to expect from that vipers' den.

I must admit to feeling incredibly unclean after reading that site and definitely in need of a good shower! There is something so unhealthy about it and I can empathise with how the cadaver dogs' feel after sniffing out evidence of drugs and death!

Having said that, some of the bloggers are head and shoulders worse than others and I especially loathe the anons who are too cowardly to put a name to their hate mail!

Got that off my chest!!


Nx

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

I think there is one who has an enduring mental health problem, sometimes are worse than others, things are really bad at the moment and it really does show. Now who could that be!


xx

Zodiac said...

Shannon's mum charged with kidnap
Press Assoc. - 52 minutes agoThe mother of schoolgirl Shannon Matthews, who went missing for 24 days earlier this year, has been charged with kidnap and false imprisonment, a court heard.

(Advertisement)
Karen Matthews, 32, had previously been accused of perverting the course of justice and child neglect.

The extra charges were revealed during a plea hearing at Leeds Crown Court.

Matthews appeared in court along with Michael Donovan, 40, who was already charged with nine-year-old Shannon's kidnap and false imprisonment. He will now also face a charge of perverting the course of justice, the court heard.

Both defendants pleaded not guilty to the kidnap, false imprisonment and perverting the course of justice charges.

No plea was entered for the child neglect charge.

Shannon disappeared on February 19 and was eventually discovered less than a mile from her home in Dewsbury Moor, West Yorkshire, 24 days after she went missing.

Donovan, of Lidgate Gardens, Dewsbury, was arrested on March 14 after the schoolgirl was found in nearby Batley Carr.

Formerly known as Paul Drake, he is the uncle of Shannon's stepfather, Craig Meehan.

Shannon, a Westmoor Junior School pupil, vanished after going on a swimming trip. Police mounted a massive investigation involving hundreds of officers and a team of 60 detectives to try to find her. She was eventually found in a drawer of a bed.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20080905/tuk-shannon-s-mum-charged-with-kidnap-6323e80.html

Cláudia said...

Viv, darling, with that video around, being viewed on youtube and links being sent to all over the world, who the hell has time to remember Poops? :-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, powerful stuff, uh?

Wizard said...

Looking at the video again the dog doing the detecting in both parts of the video is Eddie. Eddie is I think the blood detection dog. We see him detect the blood in the cupboard and behind the sofa.

We also see him detecting blood on a pink child’s top. There was talk in the Portuguese press sometime ago of a piece of M’s clothing as well as Kate’s being picked out by the dogs. I thought it was aroma of a corpse, but perhaps that part is wrong and it was blood the dogs detected perhaps even both.

The small child’s top picked out by Eddie is in a shade of pink. Bridget O’Donnell tells us when the kids were at the tennis courts earlier that day she did not see Madeleine. She elaborates on this saying they all looked the same blonde, pink and pretty. Was Madeleine at the tennis courts and wearing the pink top picked out by Eddie? Pink was M’s favourite colour and her room back home was painted that colour.

It’s quite chilling thinking about it because for an abduction to work M needed to be wearing her pyjamas.

Cláudia said...

Wizard,I think that the dog who barks is the death scent dog. The blood dog is the one who freezes.

docmac said...

A spokesman for the McCanns said: “Dog alerts can be unreliable. The handler himself makes it clear in the police report that such alerts are meaningless without corroborative evidence. There was no such evidence.

Umm, are we sure there in NO such evidence? And how does what Mr Grime said make the dog ALERTS unreliable?

“Gerry and Kate are not interested in dwelling on mistakes that were made. They and their investigation team wish to focus entirely on finding Maddie.”

No, they are 'not interested' in dwelling on the DOGS. What investigation team?

docmac said...

Eddie is the cadaver dog and alerts by barking.

BBL

Cláudia said...

Doc, I'm sure they are not interested in 'dwelling' on any of this. Why do I have the feeling that they are not exactly dog people? :-)

Wizard said...

Doc/Claudia,

If Eddie is the cadaver dog who barks when he detects the smell of a cadaver he can be seen on the video reacting strongly and barking at a child’s pink top. Perhaps the Portuguese press were right when they said the odour of a corpse had been picked up on Madeleine’s clothing. This is what is shown clearly in the video.

Cláudia said...

Wizard, I don't know if that specific piece of clothing is Madeleine's. But I believe that according to the PJ final report the scent of death was detected by the dog in both Madeleine's and Kate's clothes.

Wizard said...

The reliability of the dogs. Could a dog be wrong - well perhaps - but would two dogs be wrong detecting two different aromas in the same place. I doubt this very much. One of the dog’s detected blood which was subsequently found where he detected it, therefore, he was not wrong. The cadaver smell was detected in 4 different places - would he have been wrong 4 times. I doubt it. Madeleine has after all vanished into thin air presumed dead.

Wizard said...

Just a thought – if the aroma of a corpse was found on the pink child’s T-shirt it rather blows Gerry’s last photo out of the water.

Cláudia said...

Wizard, moreover, would those dogs have an 100% record with 200 cases and no false positive and then both get it wrong in Portugal, and only on things related to the McCanns? Are the dogs out to get them? Why didn't they get it wrong in any other of the 9 cars, in Murat's villa , in the other apartments? Do these people think the world's citizens are all stupid? If it wasn't Madeleine, who the hell died in apartment 5A and shared genetic markers with a mssing child?

Niki said...

Hi again everyone:)Posted and left again this morning... Back now for 10 min..
Claudia/ Nancy thank you for the welcome back! I have actually not been anywhere! I have kept an eye on all of you all summer (well, maybe half eye..)

Doc and Viv. I agree and understand what you say in response to my post. Still have some thoughts around it, but don't have the time just now...

Has anyone seen my cyber-friend Atardi lately? Pls send my regards if you do!

Have a nice afternoon:)

nancy said...

Docmac -

"and why would the McCann's conceal an accidental death".

I have thought about this before and think they may have concealed it because they panicked thinking they could have been imprisoned in Portugal for leaving their children alone full stop! Don't forget all the legal books in Gerry's possession. Their twins could have been taken away from their parents and we have seen how devoted they are to them - possibly put into care either in Portugal or back in the UK.

However, if that had happened to my child by accident, I would have immediately called an ambulance and local doctor because that is what normal parents would do. These two are calculating though and would have weighed things up before making a decision.

I really can't get my head round the theory that they actually killed Madeleine other than by accident, but of course it's no good turning a blind eye to what could have happened either. There could for instance have been a fight between Gerry and Kate and Madeleine just happened to get in the way and was fatally wounded.

I get the feeling we are not far away from finding out the whole truth of what happened that night.

There is always the possibility of those two being protected to a greater extent than we realise because they have monied and important connections we know including the Masons who will defend them to death. So if one day a paedophile is arrested and framed and is forced to confess we shouldn't be too surprised either eh. Or am I getting paranoid about this case?

Wizard said...

DP’s visit to 5A was on Gerry’s request to ask Kate if she was going to bring the kids down to the tennis courts as she discussed earlier with Gerry. Kate answers the door in a towel and says the kids are already in their pyjamas and tired.

We understand from JT that Kate was out jogging at about 5.15pm down at the beach so it would make sense after the kids had been picked up to have a shower. But why does Gerry tell us at 7.30pm both he and Kate showered and changed then sat down to have a glass of sauvignon blanc.

hope4truth said...

Hello All

What a fantastic article by the Sun very Pro but reading through it they have presented the evidence discovered by two dogs that have a 100% success rate spin that Clarance....

Best thing would be if they run with a headline tomrrow featuring a video of the dogs doing their job in Jersey.

How can people defend these two sickening people any more there is evidence of a Cadavar well if it was not Madeleines who else has died there rubbed themselves over Kate's clothes cuddle cat her car keys and the hire car. Answer that one Clarance and I may believe them.

viv said...

Ah well spotted Wizard, my friend, how complex LP's computer system must be to log and analyse all these different accounts, god knows! But it is a strange thing you notice when people are giving evidence, the ones who are telling the truth are very consistent!

But why does Gerry tell us at 7.30pm both he and Kate showered and changed then sat down to have a glass of sauvignon blanc.

viv said...

Zodiac, thanks for the information about the further developments in Shannon's case. A crime, I believe, that Kate and Gerry clearly inspired by simple people who had not a chance of getting away with it. According to the McCanns they even contacted them asking for money.

Whilst Shannon has clearly been put to a lot of neglect and emotional harm, at least she is safe now and was not physically hurt, but she must be very distressed. I am sure she is now getting the very best of care and counselling. Sadly, no such chance for little Madeleine and how are the twins going to face all of this as they grow up and go to school, I just dont know x

dylan said...

Hi Guys!

Docmac, just what are you trying to imply? ;-)

I did have a good one last night, thanks. I definately had too much "mineral water" and I've had a lot to do today, all of it with a sore and fuzzy head!

Actually seeing the Eddy and Keela video, I found quite distressing. I cannot see how on earth anybody could come to any other conclusion as to poor Madeleine's fate that night. Again, The Sun is using insulting descriptions of the PJ - "bungling" etc. Of course, K & G want to make everybody believe that, espceially with the release of the video.

So they are not interested in the "mistakes", erm...dogs' evidence then? Well, I'm not interested in these two selfish people. What I am interested in is finding out the truth of 3/5/08 and that there will be some justice for Madeleine.

I have to go now. I'll be back later when, hopefully, I'll be feeling a little better!

xx

viv said...

Are the dogs out to get them?


Claudia :-)))))))))

Cláudia said...

Viv, those barking, lying, sniffing, bent little bastards are capable of anything for a good bone! :-)

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

It always makes sense to believe what the Police say, Goncalo has no reason to lie and knew the evidence would be coming out. He would hardly be credible and sell his book if what he said did not accord with that evidence, but it does and so you are right, we are getting very near to the truth and to me I can see why Goncalo describes it as an "accident", previously I never could. However, it is an accident that amounts to manslaughter and as you say if a child was very ill or even dead you would still immediately call an ambulance. They behaved like guilty killers. Even parents who actually do kill their children generally still ring an ambulance!! What is so bad about this case is the denial of a decent burial to Madeleine and the cashing in on their dead child. Quite unforgivable!


J4M

viv said...

Well quite Claudia, that Eddie the Cadaver and nasty smells hunter just honed in on the McCanns' vehicle for one simple reason, he knew it was the one with the yummy rotting meat and dirty nappies in there and hey he loves those smells and he loves to work so just could not be arsed with any clean cars. He did not mind the rotting meat and dirty nappies had been clearead away. Just the smell was enough to make his whole body shake with excitement as it wafted under the door seal from Kate's seat. I wonder how many times a day she showers, it would like it must be on the hour, every hour, but Eddie insists he will not be fooled x

viv said...

** it would seem

Cláudia said...

Viv, I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. I know you want to defend the dogs. It's you're right and I respect it. But we all know what is really behind all this. It's corruption. I have no doubt. Certain bungling, dirty canines do anything for a good bone. They should get sued and forced to donate all their possessions (including the leash and the food bowl) to the fund.

viv said...

Well thanks for respecting my rights Hun, I would argue no matter what to make the dogs right they are so cute. I will indeed use my legal skills to defend them in the High Court if people continue to libel them and they will probably get even more than 800 Euros an hour for having to go and give their evidence plus of course their full legal costs. I will search till the end of my days hunting down every single person who tries to defame and libel those cute cocker puppies. No blog will be safe if they continue to libel the puppies.

I can see where you get the link for corruption though, you have to look at the name, Alsabella, obvious there were three a's in it, Goncalo, obviously a Gonc, Grimes the dogs handler um I do take your point, it could therefore be implied he is in a very grimy and corrupt business just to cash in. I respect your opinion but you should take care by continuing to libel the puppies.


xxxx

docmac said...

Nancy

Some (not all) of the reasons why I don't follow the accident theory:

1. If an accident had ocurred at any time prior to the McCanns leaving for the tapas bar it could only have happend at the kiddies club or in Kate's presence with or without Gerry in attendance. It can safely be deduced that nothing happened at the kiddies club.
2. It usually requires incredibly severe trauma to cause instantaneous death. One hears almost weekly of people who fall from multistorey buildings and either survive or die later still on the street, in the ambulance or in hospital. I would have to go way back to remember a child who sustained an accidental injury (causing bleeding) IN the home who died instantly.
3. In that instance what would a parent do? Even if neglect charges were a concern, or sedatives had been used, I just can't see a mum sitting and watching her child die.
4. If an accident had happened later, it could only have happened between 9.05 and 10pm (if Gerry's 'looking down at her and feeling how lucky he was and then going to the toilet' story is to be believed). Even allowing for the delay in calling the police, there would not have been enough time for them to 'do what they had to do' IMO. And where would the cadaver odour have come from?
5. The complicity of the friends, the 'pact'. I can not accept that a bunch of supposedly intelligent, albeit tipsy or drunk people would help to cover up an accidental death. What could possibly be the motive for doing so? It would have to be something MUCH more serious IMO.
6. The forensic markers on the wall in 5A...

Cláudia said...

Viv, LOL
Ok, now you scared me. No more libelling the dirt, sorry, the wonderful puppies! ;-)

viv said...

Ah well there you are then Hun, proof that simply threatening posters with libel proceedings has the desired effect:-))

I suppose though when the evidence is all out in the open, you realise it is not libel and the puppies have been very willing to be videoed in their work and have their track records subjected to scrutiny!

x

Doc, sometimes the simplest explanation can be the best!

nancy said...

Hi Docmac -

Thanks for that meaningful and explanatory post - if anyone disbelieves you are a doctor they are deluding themselves in my opinion!

I think the biggest problem we all have is believing one word of what the tapas lot say, which makes coming to any sort of conclusion about their timing virtually impossible.

I have just watched the video of Eddie in the McCann's apartment and there is no doubt in my mind that he found exactly what the PJ's were looking for.

You say that a bunch of intelligent doctors would hardly be complicit in covering up the accidental death of a child and that certainly makes a lot of sense, so just what are we left with here?

Watching a short bit of a video of the McCanns on McCann Files talking with the Portuguese magazine,they just seem so pompous! The same Gerry and Kate McCann we have become used to seeing and hearing - they certainly don't seem to have been worn down by their daughter's disappearance or have any look of guilt and suffering about them at all. Incredible!

nancy said...

Viv -

If push comes to shove, I know who I would believe out of GA and the McCanns!! I can't wait to read his book in English. I am going to buy it in Spanish too when I see it!


Nx

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

Like you I cannot wait to buy Goncalo's book in English which I confess is the only language I really understand. It will take pride of place in my lovely oak bookcase:-))

I do agree it is astonishing to think that fellow doctors have taken part in a cover up, but the one who has really told the most wicked lie is not a doctor ahem x

The prosecution have to prove their case.. perhaps the McCanns friends rationalise their behaviour in terms of they are simply not prepared to provide that case for them, but in terms I think they have by providing statements that lack credibility an essential attribute one has to have to convince a court!

At the end of the day, they have to live with their own consciences and their behaviour has sought to deny a little girl respect, truth and justice to save a couple of adults who are lucky enough to still have their lives. I would not want to live with that!


xxxxxxx

bath theory said...

I agree Viv and as you say no matter what happens they know what they did and have to live with it.

Changing topic here I have just got a new mouse, a wireless mouse and they are amazing. So much easier to use. So I thoroughly recommend them.

Di said...

Good evening all

Who? let the dogs out WOOF WOOF


Sorry I could not resist.:o))

bath theory said...

Those who have asked about what I feel may have happened. It is close to this which I posted originally a couple of days ago but several have asked and thus I print it again. It is not this but it is close to this.

G.M is not talking to K.H and asks his mate D.P to see why she is taking so long to come out with the children. K.H is bored with G.M and thus keeps the children inside and gives them an early bath (hence bath theory)D.P arrives and D.P + K.H are 'busy with each other' when Madeleine interupts and sees them up to something. KH reacts instinctively and a 'problem' occurs. D.P goes back via tennis court to inform G.M & to his apartment to inform his wife F.P and she goes to help out her friend K.H (remember in her statement F.P says she goes running on the beach at about this time) G.M returns from the tennis court to organise the clean up and D.P returns to the tennis court leaving mother in law to attend their children thus giving alibi and time to talk to the other men in the party. Thus G.M + K.H + F.P are in the apartment and a plan gets hatched. R.O + J.T get involved too

I am not saying this happened I am merely suggesting this type of thing could have as it
1) Fits in with the swinging rumour.
2) Fits in with timings and statements
3) Gives a motive for an insticntive reaction.
4) Explains why they all stick together as they are all intimately involved/connected.
5) Fits in with Madeleine being a bonny curious little girl.

Now the question is if a couple did change their evidence it could well be the Oldfield's given this scenario and given that Rachel appeared on radio (ie a smokescreen to hide their swopping of stories)

I believe a strong instinctive reaction blow occured and that is why things have been covered up.

JFM

bath theory said...

Di
Tomorrow's game Andorra 2 England 0 only joking Andorra 0 England 4

nancy said...

Hi Di -

Good one!!

Not many people will fail to be enchanted by those wonderful spaniels - my son used to keep the same breed and they are so loyal.

I'm sure that some of those people who are pro at the moment will come to a different conclusion about what happened to Madeleine after seeing Keela and Eddie on video! What can't speak can't lie!

Man's best friend indeed!

Di said...

Hi BT

Hope you are right ;o))

Nancy

I am an absolute dog lover having one of my own, a dobie. Believe me when my husband or myself go out our dog goes and stands at the door 2 minutes before we return. She is always right! trust me I am always amazed!!

nancy said...

Bath Theory -

An impressive theory and a plausible one.

I certainly don't believe that what happened to Madeleine is a secret only to the McCanns themselves. The Tapas friends had to be involved even though not necessarily a party to what happened. They spent so much time together (as Kate expressed ' 'into each other' so IMO there was no way that K&G could have been the only parties who knew exactly what occurred that night.

So many theories and who knows which is the right one - if any of them are at all!! This case as more holes in it than my mosquito nets at the moment!!

I hope you are well Di!

docmac said...

Hi BT

Have just mailed you about that theory.

mandarinn said...

Good evening all
I just read GA's book in vacation and i was particulary impressed ,because it was new to me,with the information about some books Gerry had in his possesion such as some he says are only available to staff fro SOC (i don't know if this are the initial of a organisation to nvestigate serious crimes. It seems they was in Algarve and had contact with the "GT".
Claudia i saw the dogs video, they are really amzing, ex. about the clothes and cars he only bareked and agitate his cute hears near precise ones. The same places where keela indicate with her nose.If they lye, i think we have a canideos crime organisation for corruption...

bath theory said...

Hi Doc
You have mail from me too

Di said...

BT

This probably won't go down well with the other side.

Several years ago when I was pregnant with my first child, I joined the clinic and met and kept several friends whose babies were due about the same time as mine. One was a nurse and married to a consultant at a local hospital. We lived very near each other and became very good friends.

Our babies were born and we saw each other most days. We used to have a babysitter about once a month and several of us got together for a meal in one of the houses.

It became very apparent what was going on and what they were trying to get us involved in. Once my friend realised we were not playing ball she admitted to me that wife swapping was rife in UK hospitals, probably now it would be partner swapping as times have changed.

The motto of this story is, they all eventually split with their respected partners and sadly many children were involved. So no happy outcome.

We no longer have any contact with them. Again sad because we were very good friends, but I cannot forget what they tried to entice us into.

Di said...

Sorry forgot to add they left their children home alone this would be about four couples. We all lived in the same road. To those over there I would like to stress my parents babysat for us.

The routine was, they checked their children every hour, one lady would leave and about 5 mins later a man checking different children. They would be gone about 20 mins and nobody thought anything. I don't need to tell you what was really going on.

Meanwhile children were being neglected.

One of the parents was connected to child welfare.

I rest my case.

Please don't say why did I do nothing, trust me I tried so did my mother-in-law we got nowhere.

Off to catch up with corie.

Bye for now

bath theory said...

Di
After university one of my mates who has just got his degree decided to be a nurse like his mother and he went to a London hospital. Fantastic for me as I had 3 more years of 'fun' that way. The doctors at this hospital the eldest in the world were extremely arrogant to nurses. As I hung around with nurses they thought I was one of them and was ridiculed, physically abused and pissed on. Beer would be thrown on me and I was looked down on. This was twnety years ago but even so. The attitude was abhorent.

It certainly would not suprise me if it is eventualy proven they were all at that week. It provides a powerful motive to ignore ones children for such ego driven people.

In terms of your parties I think you should have tried it once and then bcked off !!

:)

bath theory said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bath theory said...

Needless to say it was not always like this but this generation of Dcotors are not too old to have been influenced by this superiority thing that went on. Untouchable and unreachable.

Di said...

BT

What are you saying? try it once!!

Hubby and I are childhood sweethearts 15/16 married 33 years 2 grown up children. Tut tut..

Di said...

BT

No offence taken obviously :o))

However, my Mother-in-law is another thing. Now in her 80's she has never forgotten what went on and has some chosen words for the McCanns. Trust me she is very astute!

docmac said...

BT

You have mail x2 :-))))

Di said...

Hi Doc

Hope you are well

docmac said...

Sorry, Di

I just posted and didn't even look! Fine thank you. I wish the same to you.

Di said...

Can anyone tell me if there is any truth in the original rumour of 5A being cleaned, curtains washed etc., Or is it forum myth!

Di said...

Doc

I am fine thanks.

Di said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
docmac said...

Di

I remember something about a source from the FSS saying that the samples had been degraded by industrial-strength solvents before the first results were expected. Other than that can't help. I don't keep links and suchlike any longer.

Is there something on McCann files? Or try the search function at 3A.

Di said...

Thanks Doc.

I wondered if something had been mentioned in the book or files?

docmac said...

Dunno :-)

Di said...

I am off soon.

I just want to say.

I hope all in the UK are safe and free from floods. Today we have seen the most awful weather conditions and still tonight it continues.

Keep safe all.

docmac said...

Night Di

Think I'll toddle off too. Looks like everyone is safely tucked up.

Di said...

Night Doc

Take care

Cláudia said...

Hi, guys. Just to let you know I'm having an early night. Last night went to bed after 4 am and slept very little. Read you all tomorrow.

Doc, dorme bem!
xxxx

viv said...

Hum, looks like you thought viv will be here in a minute so we better clear out:-))) I have just done some tiling and need a break guys. Have a carpenter coming Monday to start a load of work but it is such a mess I feel inclined to keep having a little go! Looks like I may be having the same builder for the major work who did my kitchen four years ago but he is booked for two to three months. I thought there was a recession in UK, you try and get anyone to work in your house, even for big cash money!

xxxxxx

viv said...

Hiya Di,

Are you still in Wales, the weather is pretty calm here tonight, but last night Luke and I went up one of our favourite lanes on the way back from mom's and he had to get out of the car and hold a tree back that had snapped through so that I could drive through.

It is strange but I was saying to Luke last night how concerned I was about the owls because they cannot feed when it keeps raining their feathers get waterlogged, and we have not been seeing many (or badgers) then just as we turned into our road a barn owl was sitting looking at us, they are one of the rarer ones so that was good. He then flew across into some old buildings so I know where he hangs out now!


xxxx

viv said...

Di said...
Can anyone tell me if there is any truth in the original rumour of 5A being cleaned, curtains washed etc., Or is it forum myth!

Di, I do recall that was discussed at some length on the DE. Rosiepops was heavily defending their actions in doing this, claiming that she has often gone on holiday and decided to wash the curtains to "freshen up". He/she did get a certain amount of derision for that :-)))

Mr Grimes also comments about scientific methods used and there may be no DNA available, referring to the blood/fluids behind the sofa that both dogs marked. Of course we are taking that remark out of context because we only got such a selected snippet but that suggests to me he was saying, yes the dogs can find it but that does not mean we will get any usable DNA to analyse. We know they used low copy number DNA which is only used when there are just a few cells/degraded samples.

I still wonder why Rebelo's men were rolling that big chemical drum into 5a, I dont think I know enough about forensics to work that one out but have a feeling ther is a connection here!

Blimey I just heard an owl outside, they must be doing OK!

nancy said...

Good morning everyone -

I forgot to say goodnight last night - sorry about that!

Viv -

Barn Owls and Badgers and the English countryside - what lovely scenes that cunjures up despite the appalling weather the UK is having at the moment!! I would give anything for some rain here to take away the heat right now!! The poor weather can never win can it!
-----------------------------------

This mornings Daily Express is running a story (no comments allowed) about the million pounds from the fund spent by the McCanns to Metodo 3! Whose decision was it to use an agency who had no experience in child abduction then? No use bleating about it now.

They say:

"We want to find her alive. But if she is dead we want to know. (Talk about stating the obvious)! There is nothing in the police files that indicates anything bad happened to her...."

How often have we heard these words from this couple of child neglecters! Perhaps if they had acted like normal parents, i.e. answered all the questions put to them by the PJ's; agreed to go back for a reconstruction, as well as taking that lie detector test they agreed to and then refused, we might believe they are genuine, but they have lost their right to the public's sympathy for their cowardly and self serving behaviour.

It seems that most of the media are ignoring the evidence of Keela and Eddie, apart from Sky!

Surprise, surprise!

JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE!

nancy said...

A few interesting comments from the 3A's on the sniffer dogs' videos - good to be able to read it again!

Mexx -

"What is the reason for the McCanns (presumed innocent)not to be absolutely horrified and perplexed by the dogs' findings. Have the McCanns given any reason to explain why they are not horrified?"

Foxylady replies -

"The silence is deafening Mexx!"

Jilly Come Lately -

"I have never understood their initial response about the dogs' reaction to the car hired 20 plus days after Madeleine disappeared. They imediately went on the defensive with woefully impossible excuses about babies napoies and pork chops being transported to the dump. Any innocent parents' reactions would have been:

"What!?! Who the hell hired this car before us??? Find him now!!! Pleaeeeeese!!!"

Weary said -

"If a newspaper had a poll that asked readers who they trusted, the dogs or the McCanns, I think the McCann's would be in for a nasty surprise!"
----------------------------------

How true.....

bath theory said...

Put it this way I would rather Eddie and Keela babysit my two young children than Gerry & Kate.

bath theory said...

The media is ignoring it because it is highly likely they have been bought.

hope4truth said...

Morning Nancy if you are still here...

I agree with your posts what normal parent would not be horrifed if they were told their is evidece their daugter died?

As for the fund they have wated a million on a fraud investigation firm what loving parents they did not bother to look themselves then hire people who specialise in company fraud it is cold and callous. The more I read the more horrified I am with their behaviour poor Madeleine is nothing more than a marketing campaign to these two selfish people.

Neglect
Pact of silence
Leaving Twins alone to go to the Tapas to spin her tale
Trashing the crime sceen
No searching for her
Media Campaign
Releasing a picture of her eye
Spining black into white
Non Cooperation
World Tour Dump the twins again
Kate refusing to answer any questions

Is that the behaviour of parents who have lost a child? I dont bloody think so!!!!!!!!! Every interview it is all about them and how they have spent more money doing absoloutly nothing.

The Dogs have never had a false positive Amaral has written a book and guess what for all their bluster they are not sueing.

Poor Madeleine

bath theory said...

Doc
You have mail

bath theory said...

Dear Kate
It is not too late to go back and answer the questions honestly and truthfully that were put to you in that police station. Whatever the consequences of your words you will be able to lead a life afterwards otherwise you will be a person who like now merely exists
It is never too late.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Good Morning All

An interesting posting by sybil on 3A:

Research by experts on reliability of cadaver dogs -2008

by sybil on Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:45 am
Forensic Sci Int. 2008 Jan 15;174(1):35-9. Epub 2007 Apr 2.
Oesterhelweg L, Kröber S, Rottmann K, Willhöft J, Braun C, Thies N, Püschel K, Silkenath J, Gehl A.
Institute of Legal Medicine, University Medical Center Hamburg, Germany. lars.oesterhelweg@irm.unibe.ch

INTRODUCTION: Cadaver dogs are known as valuable forensic tools in crime scene investigations. Scientific research attempting to verify their value is largely lacking, specifically for scents associated with the early postmortem interval. The aim of our investigation was the comparative evaluation of the reliability, accuracy, and specificity of three cadaver dogs belonging to the Hamburg State Police in the detection of scents during the early postmortem interval. MATERIAL AND METHODS: Carpet squares were used as an odor transporting media after they had been contaminated with the scent of two recently deceased bodies (PMI<3h). The contamination occurred for 2 min as well as 10 min without any direct contact between the carpet and the corpse. Comparative searches by the dogs were performed over a time period of 65 days (10 min contamination) and 35 days (2 min contamination). RESULTS: The results of this study indicate that the well-trained cadaver dog is an outstanding tool for crime scene investigation displaying excellent sensitivity (75-100), specificity (91-100), and having a positive predictive value (90-100), negative predictive value (90-100) as well as accuracy (92-100).

PMID: 17403590 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
website reference: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
/17403590

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