14 Nov 2008

Where Does the Buck Stop?

Haringey Social Services have been criticised for failing to protect Baby P. Two baby boys are stabbed to death in Manchester by their mentally unstable mother, despite Social Services intervention. Aberdeen City Council are roundly criticised in a Scottish Office report for “failing to protect vulnerable children”. Little Shannon Matthews was taken into foster care following a false kidnapping and imprisonment, instigated by her own mum.

In the wake of such tragedies, it is easy to finger-point and apportion blame. Everyone does it, because no-one is willing to accept responsibility.

Karen Matthews was “a good mother” until she met Craig Meehan, we are told. Ms Shoesmith has adamantly stated that she will not be resigning over the Baby P affair, and neither will any of her staff. Social workers monitoring Ms Mullings decided she was capable of caring for her children (despite abandoning one of them at Manchester’s A&E) and closed the file. The McCanns left three under-fours alone in an isolated apartment, but the subsequent and continued disappearance of one of them is, apparently, the fault of the PJ and the lack of an Amber Alert.

At what point, exactly, did it become the “done thing” to waive all responsibility for our own actions? And at what point does the buck-passing stop?

Watch a small child caught red-handed, doing something naughty. “I didn’t do it!; she did it!; it’s somebody else’s fault!” Responsible parents teach their children to own up to their own behaviour – so why can’t grown adults accept culpability? It’s supposed to be learned behaviour, after all; like standing in orderly queues, or saying please and thank you. (Unless, of course, the adult in question was never taught the meanings and consequences of rights and responsibilities in the first place, in which case the parents are 100% responsible IMHO).

We live in a society that has increasingly, over the years, shifted away from the ideals of social responsibility, to the concept of people’s “rights”. We now have the spectre of obese people suing McDonalds because the burgers made them fat, although no-one actually forced them to eat there; the husband who has affairs because his wife doesn’t satisfy him; the spendaholics who are tens of thousands in debt because the bank keeps giving them credit cards.

Society is imploding, because no-one is responsible anymore. But to abdicate all responsibility, relegates us to the role of “victim”. And that serves no-one, least of all the victim, because it’s the quickest way to guarantee an unhappy und unfulfilled life.

Time to own up, claim responsibility, apologise and rectify our mistakes, and move on. If you are someone who wants more control in your life, then taking responsibility for yourself is a great step in the right direction. That’s what grown-ups do.

For Kate McCann, Ms Shoesmith, Manchester Social Services, Aberdeen Council, and Karen Matthews. Get a grip. Take control, take responsibility. Answer the questions. The truth will set you free.


isis said...

Somehow, seeing the picture of the little baby , Peter, makes this case all the more horiffic something that i didnt think could happen. Shame on all those who let him down, I hope you can live with yourselves. Sleep with the angels small boy xxxx.

isis said...

Here is the timeline of the toddler's brief and tragic life, based on the available records.

1 March, 2006: Baby P is born. He lives with his father and mother in Haringey, north London.

2 May 2006: Baby P makes first visit to GP suffering from vomiting. He returns on May 26 with a similar complaint.

June 2006: The mother meets her new partner at a pub.

17 July 2006: The baby's father leaves the home in Haringey.

19 September 2006: Mother takes Baby P to his GP with nappy rash but also claims that he 'bruises easily' and is worried that she might be accused of child abuse.

13 October 2006: Baby P, now eight months old, returns to GP with bruising on the side of his head and chest. Mother claims he had fallen down the stairs.

17 November 2006: Baby P taken to GP with a respiratory tract infection and thrush.

November / December 2006: The 32-year-old boyfriend moves into the family home in November or December.

11 December 2006: Baby P is taken to his GP with a head injury, bruising to the bridge of the nose, sternum, right shoulder and buttocks. Mother 'flustered' and cannot give an explanation. Baby referred to the Paediatric Department at the Whittington Hospital for skeletal scan and blood clotting tests. Mother claims Baby P has fallen off the settee and been scratched by the dog. Baby P referred to Social Services.

12 December 2006: Haringey Social Services strategy meeting considers baby's case.

15 December 2006: Baby P discharged from hospital into the care of mother's friend Angela Godfrey. Police investigation begins.

19 December 2006: Mother and Grandmother of Baby P arrested for assaulting child and bailed to return on January 11, 2007.

22 December 2006: Baby P's name placed on the Haringey Child Protection Register for neglect and physical abuse.

24 December 2006: Social services make five-minute visit to check on family friend and the baby.

26 January 2007: Baby P returns to care of mother. She is still on bail for assaulting the child.

2 February: Maria Ward is appointed Baby P's allocated social worker.

February 2007: Family are moved to a bigger council home in north London with mother's new partner.

22 February 2007: Allocated social worker Maria Ward makes first visit to the new house. Mother complains about baby's name going on the Register. She denies causing the bruising.

2 March 2007: Second visit by social worker, together with health visitor Paulette Thomas, the day after Baby P's first birthday. Maria Ward sees the child butting the floor and refers him to the Child Development Centre. The mother admits 'taking her eye off the ball' after her separation but claims to be back on track.

8 March 2007: Arranged visit by social worker Maria Ward. Baby P seen banging his head on the sofa.

13 March 2007: Social worker Maria Ward alerted by mother's husband she may be living with a new boyfriend. The mother strongly denies the claims, saying he is just a friend who sometimes helps around the house.

15 March 2007: Mother starts weekly 'Mellow Parenting' programme. Mother cancels appointment with Health Visitor.

22 March 2007: Social worker notices baby has a red mark on the side of his chin. Mother claims he bumped into a side table at her friend's home. Health visitor Paulette Thomas completes a one-year check and reports 'no concerns.'

7 April 2007: Baby P seen by a family friend sitting in the garden eating dirt with a large bruise on his forehead. He is very quiet and withdrawn.

9 April 2007: Mother takes Baby P to North Middlesex Hospital with a large swelling and bruising on the left side of his head and a small bruise on his right cheek. Mother claims he was pushed over by an 18 month-old child and hit his head on a marble fireplace the previous Thursday, April 5. Baby P also has bruising around the eyes, scratches to his face and earlobe and head lice. The CT scan was normal. Social Services informed but make diagnosis of possible meningitis. Mother is heard boasting that her son has meningitis. Social services provide the family with a fireguard.

11 April 2007: Baby P discharged home.

24 April 2007: Social worker Maria Ward visits and has 'no concerns.'

9 May 2007: Health visitor Paulette Thomas visits the family at home.

10 May 2007: Mother does not attend Mellow Parenting Class.

16 May 2007: Maria Lockhart, Haringey project worker visits reports no problems.

18 May 2007: Baby P taken to the GP suffering from hives and prescribed antihistamine.

21 May 2007: Social worker visits the home, no apparent problems.

24 May 2007: Mother does not attend Mellow Parenting Class.

29 May 2007: Baby P not taken to appointment at the Health Visitors' centre at the Lordship Lane Clinic.

31 May 2007: Mother does not attend Mellow Parenting Class.

1 June 2007: Baby P, now 15 months old, is visited unannounced by social worker Maria Ward. He is lying on the sofa under a blanket. His face is red with some bruising under the chin and a red line under his eye. Mother claims that the baby has been in a fight with the 18 month-old child. The social workers informs the police and tells the mother to see the GP. The boy is taken to the North Middlesex hospital and is noticed to have 12 areas of bruising. Mother worried the baby may be taken away but social services arrange for a family friend to supervise the baby's care.

5 June 2007: Mother is arrested for a second time and questioned by police. She claims she is a 'damn good mum.'

6 June 2007: Baby P brought to Lordship Lane health clinic. Health visitor Paulette Thomas notes he has lost weight since March and sees scabs on his head. Mother claims baby had an allergic reaction.

8 June 2007: Photographs are taken of Baby P during a visit to his home by the police child protection team. He appears to have a bruise at the centre of his spine.

12 June 2007: Child minder Ann Walker notices a weeping and bleeding sore on Baby P's head. The child is often unwashed, smells of vomit and always seems to be hungry.

15 June 2007: The childminder tells social services of a bruise on the boy's chin but it is decided it is a pre-existing injury.

19 June 2007: Social worker visits Baby P at childminder's home and sees scratches on his scalp. Mother takes him to North Middlesex hospital for treatment to scratches on his ear and scalp. She claims he had an allergic reaction after eating Red Leicester cheese.

28 June 2007: Mother tells social worker Maria Ward over the phone she is going away the next day for her birthday.

29 June 2007: Jason Owen moves into the home with the 15 year-old runaway girl. Maria Ward tries to contact the mother but fails.

2 July 2007: Maria Ward contacts mother and is told they are at her seriously ill uncle's in Cricklewood. It is thought this was a cover story because Baby P had a black eye.

4 July 2007: Health visitor unable to contact mother but leaves message on phone.

9 July 2007: Baby P taken to walk-in clinic at North Middlesex hospital to get antibiotics for ear and scalp infections. Mother cancels appointment with health visitor.

10 July 2007: A police meeting leads expert to agree that the injuries to Baby P in December 2006 are 'suggestive of non accidental injury but non conclusive.'

11 July 2007: Social worker visits family and notes ear and scalp infection.

16 July 2007: Mother cancels appointment with health visitor.

18 July 2007: Baby P examined by health visitor Paulette Thomas and found to have again lost weight. Continues to suffer from scalp infection. Bruising also noted around ear. Mother claims it was caused when she was trying to clean his ear.

19 July 2007: Baby P taken to walk-in clinic at North Middlesex Hospital. He has an ear infection and swelling, and a nail infection to right hand. Antibiotics prescribed.

23 July 2007: Appointment for Baby P at the Child Development Centre at St Anne's Hospital is cancelled.

24 July 2007: Childminder informs social worker she cannot look after Baby P because of the scalp infection. Maria Ward phones the mother and tells her to go to a GP. Mother fails to turn up for appointment with Health Visitor and claims she forgot.

26 July 2007: Mother takes baby to GP. Baby P is withdrawn and pulls away from doctor during examination. GP prescribes anti-bacterial cream and makes appointment for August 2.

27 July 2007: Baby P stays overnight with father. Appears to be healthy apart from scalp infection and bandage to finger.

30 July 2007: Maria Ward makes last visit to see Baby P. He was in his buggy and had chocolate smears over his face and hands and anti-bacterial cream on his scalp. They may have been used to obscure the injuries.

31 July 2007: The CPS decide there is insufficient evidence against the mother or the maternal grandmother.

1 August 2007: Baby P taken to the Child Development Centre at St Anne's Hospital following two previous cancelled appointments. By this time he is probably suffering from fractured ribs and a broken back, paralysing him from the waist down. Doctor Sabah Alzayyat noted bruises to body and face but does not carry out full examination because he was 'miserable and cranky.' In evidence she insists that the boy was moving his legs - something she had never mentioned before. Mother cancels appointment with Heath Visitor.

2 August 2007: Mother decides not to take baby to the GP. Social worker Maria Ward agrees, as boy was seen by Paediatrician previous day. At a meeting with police and social services the mother is told that police would be taking no further action about the assault. She cries with relief and says she will go back and give him a big hug and bake a cake.

3 August 2007: 1.10am: Mother chats to friend over the phone and says the kids are 'fine.'

11.35am: The 999 call is made. Baby P taken to hospital but pronounced dead on arrival.

ratonthebeam said...

Isis - you forgot to add, mother had another baby while in hospital, Social Workers opposed decision to immediately take new baby into care. They wanted to leave new baby with the mother because it was her "human rights". Friggin' unbelieveable.

isis said...

Too upsetting Rat, I am at a complete loss for words.

Cláudia said...

This is one of those cases which make me rethink my objection to teh death penalty.

bath theory said...

The main radio news on the BBC was interesting this afternoon. It mentioned Murat accepting damages from Sky and some newspapers.

INITIAL WORDING I HEARD was something along these lines

...Apart from the parents the other main suspect in the Madeleine McCann case , Robert Murat today accepted ...

A few hours later guess what the bit about the parents was taken out completely. This is exactly what we have been talking about from the off. Manipulation and control at an editorial or directorial level and it is designed to distance the couple

This is proof to me that a covering of their true role is taking place as initial story lines keep getting changed and they are changed from a balanced factually correct statement often to complete present one viewpoint. This is even further down the line than dressing up opinions as facts as it intentionally distorts a balanced or independent report.


bath theory said...

Unfortunately some fall for it BUT not enough. When Brown goes the Portugese should press ahead and go for the jugular.

Alas, he will be manipulating the current crisis to time it so he gives himself the best chance at the next election. I see him as Richard Nixon like in his make up.

docmac said...

God, Isis. That timeline makes for very sad reading. All those people had the chance to save him and yet...

"19 September 2006: Mother takes Baby P to his GP with nappy rash but also claims that he 'bruises easily' and is worried that she might be accused of child abuse."

This was a red flag. 'Easily bruised' and 'worried about being accused of child abuse' are incredibly common 'concerns' brought up by abusive parents early on and, as in this case, are often volunteered during a visit for a fairly innocuous and unrelated complaint. This should have been picked up by any experienced person and noted in BIG RED LETTERS in the case file.

Having said that, the way this baby was repeatedly failed by numerous others along the way in the light of so many obvious pointers to neglect and abuse is astonishing. And Balls has the balls to say it's going to happen again. How sad.

docmac said...


I see Brown more as Idi Amin. Just without the genocide.

Cláudia said...

Hey, Doc! :-)

Viv, where are you?

docmac said...

Hey Claudia

I believe Viv may have 'met someone' and extended her stay ;-)

Cláudia said...

I hope so!

Viv, we're getting worried!

docmac said...

I'm not ;-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, :-)

Cláudia said...

I'll be back in a bit.

docmac said...


ratonthebeam said...

Did you all see the Dogs Don't Lie online shop? I bet Rosie is spitting mad! :-) :-) :-)

docmac said...

Hi Rat

Rosie was always mad and delighted in telling us on the DX how he spat his sparkling mineral water over his keyboard. Still, there's a good chance this could be a spit inducer I suppose :-)

nancy said...

Rat -

Thanks for the new thread which is spot on.

Real life is all about being responsible for our own actions and admitting when we have got it wrong. That's a basic principle in a civilised society.

This government, and the liberal elite must take responsibility too because they have brought in so many politically correct laws that cushion the workshy, single mothers (which has actually increased chidren born out of wedlock rather than helped the situation), criminals, whose feelings are put before the actual victims, and they bleed the taxpayer and honest people to prop up these parasites.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the gist!

nancy said...

I've been reading the 3A's blog about Diane Webster's supposed statement to the police. I find it hard to believe that this is an actual blue print of what she said because it seems far too laid back and off the cuff to me. I know she wasn't a suspect but I'm sure an interview relating to such a notorious case as Madeleine's disappearance would have been carried out in a far more in depth way.

However, if it is true, then what she said about the twins not waking up, as if they had been drugged, confirms what many of us thought had happened to Madeleine, only with fatal consequences.

Of course maybe Diane Webster said this to put other theorists off the scent. Who knows?

docmac said...

Hi Nancy

Having read that statement over and over again there are two thoughts I am wrestling with:

1: It's fake.
2: The 'interviewee' shows signs of dementia and had to be guided gently through the process.

Cláudia said...

Doc, I don't think it's fake.

docmac said...

I'm leaning towards '2' at the moment as well.

Cláudia said...

I'm pretty sure it's the real thing. ;-)

docmac said...

OK then ;-) You've obviously been in contact with your contact.

docmac said...

OK Gezza

Got rid of Rat, BT, Nancy and Claws in one shift. Where's me bonus?

docmac said...

Oh, and Isis

But as per our agreement I posted outside the agreed half hour check limit and won't claim for that one. Hopefully my honesty will be rewarded in due course.

Cláudia said...

Doc, LOL
Well, I wouldn't say that. I would call it a guess. :-)

docmac said...

See what I have to deal with here, Gez? This woman just took 25% off my bonus by answering within the time limit as per our agreement.

May I request a transfer to another site?

Respectfully yours.

ratonthebeam said...

Sorry Doc, no bonus tonight, I am still here! :=)

ratonthebeam said...

I have just been reading DWs interview. There's an awful lot of errrs in it. Is she related to Kate?

Hard to believe that somebody so forgetful, so easily confused and so lost for words can actually hold down a job as a credit controller :-?

docmac said...

Bugger! I have kids to feed.

Actually, I agree with you Rat. If it is indeed the transcript of the Enderby interview with DW she should be put out to pasture IMO.

Cláudia said...

Well, she was on vacation with that bunch and saw nothing wrong in leaving the kids home alone to go and have 'me'/'us' time. Are you surprised she sounds thick?

docmac said...

No, Claudia

It remains a mystery as to why she remained at the table too. NOT. The others were afraid she would blab.

Cláudia said...

Doc, maybe.

docmac said...

Oh, you don't want your Rucking letter now, do you? LOL!

Off to talk to my pillow now. Boa noite amiga. Goodnight to Rat.

Viv, thumbs up!!!

Cláudia said...

Doc, LOL

Boa noite, amigo.Dorme bem.

Viv, wherever you are, dorme bem too!

docmac said...

Just a late night chuckle for the early morning risers.

We have 94 registered users

The newest registered user is Maureen7

Cláudia said...

Doc, :-)

And how many posts?

Cláudia said...

Boa noite, all.

hope4truth said...

Hello ALl

Poor little boy let down by everyone what the Bloody Hell is wrong with this country? We seem to treat children like second class citezens.

Sorry but the head of that social services department should be sacked not given the oportunity to resign (although it looks like she thinks she is doing a good job and wont) and every social worker who saw that child and did not try and bring the neglect to anyones attention.

If this little boy had never been seen by a health or social worker you could belive no one noticed but the fact he had seen so many profesionals (well if you can call them profesional)is unreal and his mother not going to parenting classes ALARM BELLS!!!!!!!

I am not into violence do not support the death penalty but if these scum get a good kicking for 18 months it is no more than they deserve. I expect we will see them all apealing against their sentences soon as they feel they are too harsh.... sorry for the next word BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope they rot in hell...

When questioning GB about this I hope someone asks him why he himself supports child neglectors who in all probability are responible for the death of their own daughter...

I am off to see McFly in Bournmouth (yay) well my youngest daughter and her best friend are very happy about it just bought the album so I know all the words...

Have a nice day all xxx

ratonthebeam said...

Personally Hope, I wouldn't even have jailed them, I would have just chucked them to the crowd on the steps of the Court and saved the state any further expense. I suppose that's not a very PC thing to say - maybe I should be helping them set up a webpage and a Fund instead, and calling for the police who nailed them to be sacked and jailed themselves.

isis said...

Rat, may not be very PC, but tbh , in this case and I have never been one to advocate mob mentality or the concept of vigilantism, I could readily make an exception.Looks like the odds are all stacked against the child in the interest of maintaining the family unit which clearly in this and I am am sure many , many other cases, is the most dangerous place for little children. There has to be answers in this case and someone has to be held accountable for a death which need never have taken place. Wonder how that GP feels now ? For the life of me I cannot see how a professional like that could have missed the probable severed spine of a 17 month old baby.

nancy said...

Rat and Hope

I think the public would just love to get their hands on these three excuses for human beings! Also I think the leader of Haringey Social Services should be sacked immediately - the buck stops with her after all.

OK, we know that Social Workers are told to try and keep children with parents, but at what price? Children who are abused and ill treated very often go on to treat their own children the same way. That's not rocket science!

Poor baby P, and many other vulnerable babies and children, have paid the price for the incompetence of 'more than my job's worth' staff over the years and it has to stop!

If there is any shadow of doubt that any child is in danger from parents, especially when step parents are involved, they should be put into safe custody. There are many loving foster parents who are willing to take in 'at risk' children and at least they would be given the chance of life!

nancy said...

Isis -

The problem with many (not all) doctors today is that they are too quick to make a diagnosis without even making proper checks. I think that the young doctor just looked at the baby, saw that he was breathing, prescribed calpol or something and that was it.

Some doctors (not all, I hasten to add again) are very quick to pick up their very substantial salary cheques, but just treat their patients like herds of cattle to be seen for a few minutes and then ushered out of the door!

I think that young babies and children, especially those on an at risk register, should be seen by a paediatrician and given a thorough check for injuries that are naked to the visible eye, and I'm sure Docmac would agree with that.

nancy said...

Docmac -

I agree with you that DW, in that 'reported' interview, came across as someone short of a shilling, or was she just trying to remember what she had said before and terrified of being caught out in a discrepancy.

As far as the police officer is concerned, if he'd been more laid back he would have fallen over! He was obviously warned in advance to go easy and not rock the boat too much!

I think all of us on here could have thought of a lot more pertinent questions to put to her, such as why she didn't join in the search, but just sat there finishing her drink while mayhem went on all around. To say she was waiting there in case Madeleine walked in is as believable as the moon is a balloon!

I think she must have been given lessons on quick fire response to questions by Kate herself; she was definitely in full speed ahead mode in Portugal when she refused to answer the questions put to her by the PJ's!

isis said...

Nancy , agree with you 120%, doctors now are too ready to give a cursary glance and then write a script .

docmac said...

Isis (and by extension Nancy)

Agreed. It's the same here, unfortunately.

Cláudia said...

Hi, everybody!

Viv, where are you?

docmac said...

Isis said:

"Wonder how that GP feels now ? For the life of me I cannot see how a professional like that could have missed the probable severed spine of a 17 month old baby."

It was a paediatrician :-((( And she lied about this afterwards, saying the poor child was moving his legs spontaneously! Quack, as I am so often called.

Off for dinner.

Cláudia said...

Have a nice dinner, Doc.

docmac said...


You don't want to know the answer to your question :-))


isis said...

Doc, incredible... moving limbs spontaneously....with a severed spine ???? New one on me. The fact that it was a paediatrician makes it even more questionable.

Cláudia said...

Doc, I really do. I don't wanna know what she's doing. I just wanna know where she is! LOL

Enjoy your dinner!


viv said...

Hiya everyone,

Luke and I got back safe yesterday but the house is not due to be finished now until th end of next week and so we are camped out in martin's flat. It is looking fab though and we both have a nice tan

Have not caught up with all the posts yet but just thought I would let you know I am here


viv said...

oh i mean we got back thurs ! bit jetlagged I think:-)))

dylan said...

Viv!! :-)))))))

Glad you are back! Did you have a fab time?? xx

dylan said...

Hi everyone else & thanks Rat for the new thread. Isis also for the timeline. It is very, very distressing. It seemed at some points, they were prepared to take the baby into care and then Baby P was allowed to go back to his mother again. I can't think what could have changed to allow the baby to go back. There is no mention of an interview with the mother to determine that she was fit to care for him again.

It is almost as if the family was visited by a different person each time and none of them communicated what they had seen or thought. Well, I mean that would make it more understandable as to why the abuse was missed. Poor little boy. I really hope he had some love in his short life, from somebody, just so that he knew what it felt like to be loved.


viv said...

Hiya Dillie

Yes we did have a fantastic time thanks. The Egyptian people are simply wonderful and made a real fuss of Luke and I. The one lad who works for the Diving school Wahil was so lovely I cried when he hugged me goodbye on the beach and then to my amazement turned up just as our coach was about to leave causing Luke and I to dive off and go and hug him again. I have some pictures of him but cannot access my pics at the mo due to not being at home but will post some when I can. I had a great day out we went to Ras Mohammed National Park which is an outstanding ooral reef and I was even brave enough to jumo off the boat three times to go for a swim. They obviously thought I wads geting on bit for that because they kept saying Madam do you want to have a rest and hold on to the rubbuer ring, no no please I am a very good swimmer in the end they told me so! It is a bit scary to think there are about 7 species of shark lurking round but I did not bump into any personally. Luke passed his scuba diving course so is every thrilled. There was a jetty off our beach and if you walked along this and looked it is just like looking into a tropical fish tank, I have never seen anything os beautiful, and such divine sunsets. It was amaxingly hot 2-36 during th day and about 25 at night. Good job it is relatively mild here to come back to but rain is an odd sight ! The desert is just captivating! My mom was in a sister hotel and entered their contest Miss Concorde el Salam againt 7 young russian girls and she won, as she did last year aged 82, she is so popular the place was just erupting with applasuse, she did her cat model walk and belly dance, she is just so brave an funny and I was so proud of her!


viv said...

I aee that Joana Morais reports there wss a mole on Amaral's team reporting everything the police planned straight back to the gruesome twosome and causing immmense damage to the investigation.

It is also reported that M3 were not instructed to look for Maddie at all, as we have heard from them personally really it was all about gathering "evidence£" of sightings to push their absurd abduction theory. Well the McCanns wanted publicity and we intend to see they get it, but just not quite as they planned..
Every foul step they have taken, we have noticed and we will continue to provide in depth commentary upon, most especially because we know they do not like it!


OH AND I WAS SO THRILLED ABOUT OBAMA WINNING..I hope he will help to bring about a world where human rights gain far greater respect, everyone's rights, including childrens' which for too long have just taken a back seat



Guaranteeing that he was "never" asked to search for Maddie - he was only asked to collect information about alleged sightings - the Método 3 man says that his objective was to "spread broadly" the Moroccan lead to "confirm that it was an abduction."

viv said...

exscuse the crap typing - sofa and coffeee table, poor eyesight blah blah!

dylan said...

Viv, I'm so glad you had a wonderful time. Give my congratulations to Luke too for his diving certificate. As for your mum, wow!! What a lady!

Claudia's been asking after you desperately, as you have probably read but our dear Docmac knew you'd be ok ;-)

The 3As has had a bit of spat over a transcript that was alluded to but that 'Nicked' wanted to keep mum about to preserve the wishes of the person that posted it, and to ensure that the rest of the statements would eventually be posted too.

Lastly there is the very sad case of Baby P as you will see from Rat's link.

Docmac went temporarily insane too when he was talking about J G&T!! ;-)))


viv said...


Thanks for a great thread - sadly outlinging more child protection tragedies. It take three years to do a dgree course to qualify as a social worker but are they really being provided with exactly what it takes to recognise when a child is at risk of serious harm and immediately take appropriate action. In the wake of the Children Act 1989 we have become all together too concerned with parental rights rather than those of the child, this was a very retrograde step. Social workers now seem to be either too lacking in knowledge or just too plain scared to remove a child. We should backing social workers to the hilt and saying to them if you remove a child because you thought they were at risk but you turned out to be wrong there will be no comeback on you. It is far better than the other way around where it is always parents who are now getting the benefit of the doubt.

I was a very mature person when re-training as a probation officer and was able to bring a bost of experience of work and life to bear in accurately assessing risk but it is a very difficult thing to do. It takes sheer experience, there is no degree course that can euqip for this. If social workers are to be entrusted to the most difficult job of protecting little children we really must make sure they are up to the job and get the backing of managers we I know is so often missing and so they lack the support as well as an adequate legal framework to make the right choices. I can recall young probation officers, apparently qualified and set loose on the lives of real people, affected by serious issues of child protection and domeestic violence etc, issues they so often knew nothing about!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Phew! :-) I'm glad you're back and ok!!!
You were missed!
Have to go but will be back later to see if anyone else is around! :-)


viv said...

There are simple procedures that can be set in place by taking know risk factors as a red flas, risk we know only too well because the statistics tell us exactly how abusive parents behave.

They repeatedly miss appointments with health workers and hospitals just like the mother of Baby P did, they foist responsibility for their children on to someone else, anyone else, whenever they get the chance, just like Kate and Gerry McCann did, they have mental health, drug and alcohol problems, the chuildren are left home alone, the children are quiet and withdrawn, they have unexplained injuries. They do not respond to toys, love and normal stimulus. When a host of these factors are present, social workers should know that means ACTION NOW FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILD NEVER MIND WHAT THE PARENTS SAY, FAILING TO ATTEND APPOINTMENTS REPEATEDLY IS A REAL RED FLAG AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN REASON ENOUGH TO SAVE BABY P AND SO MANY OTHERS.

What government are going to be brave enough to allocate the resources that we need right now to save our most precious thing our children, our future? Just what does it take for them to make a genuinely politically correct decision that actually represents the people who elected them and the future electorate. UK citizens if asked would want every effort put into such important work and the very best people trained both academically and on the job to do it.

docmac said...

Welcome back Viv!!!! :-)

Claudia, Wahil ;-) Told you :-)))

BTW Viv, it seems that a small part of Africa has enchanted you. Now come and experience the deep south! We have 3 spare rooms, all facing TM. We'll prepare one for you, one for Luke and one for Wahil. And we'll wear earplugs :-)))))

viv said...

Phew Claudia and hello darling it is good to be back and see I am not just talking to myself. It is quiet here tonight, but I have had a good sound off on issues that do concern me:-))


dylan said...


'We should backing social workers to the hilt and saying to them if you remove a child because you thought they were at risk but you turned out to be wrong there will be no comeback on you.'

Exactly. Scientists often face a similar dilemma when a decision to either make a costly evacuation or to sit tight when natural disasters are imminent, such as a volcanic eruption. If they get it wrong and people are needlessly evacuated, they face a tough time of having to account for thier actions, whereas if they get it wrong and peolple die as a consequence, they have to live with that decision too. I know which scenario I would run with.

I don't see how this poor baby slipped through the net when he was so close to being saved. :(

Hi Claudia. Glad that you are happy now. :-)))

dylan said...

Hi Docmac :-)

I'm off to watch a film now with my daughter. It was a freebie that came with a student newspaper but it looks like quite a sweet film. I'll get my tissues out, just in case!


docmac said...

Enjoy yourselves, Dyl! x

viv said...

Gosh Doc that sounds like a very generous offer which I will seriously have to consider!

Wahil is married, 31 years with two little boys who live with his wife in Cairo. He works 7 days a week for two months and then gets just one week off to go and spend time with his family, he is just a genuinely lovely guy, who says he will not have any more children and will continue to work really hard for them to try and get them a uni education and a chance in life.

It is good to be back and chatting with y0u again minha amigo!


docmac said...

I'm also going to watch a bit of TV now. Early start tomorrow. Night all.

docmac said...

Well bring his brother then, Viv!

Night, great to hear you had a wonderful time and got home safely x.

viv said...

Hey Doc - if he had a slightly older brother who was as lovely as him I would be delighted to do that!

Some of the Egyptian men have very smooth tongues, you are a very beautiful woman madam, that will be 100 egyptian to you, you know full price! But those massages were lovely and the paintings I bought ! Would any of you like to join a team of decorators to come and paint all the bare plaster I am now faced with, I just wanted to put them up!


viv said...

Hiya Dillie

Luke was enjoying a night out in Birmingham about a year or so back when the police took the decision to shut down the city centre and evactuate everyone because of a bomb threat. He was upset it spoilt his night when it turned out to be a false alarm but I convinced him the police took exactly the right decision, a costly one true but money is just paper and cannot be compared with the sanctity of human life

Good to hear from you and hope you are now feeling better, enjoy your film. We have a couple of DVDs from Egypt of us swimming and Luke diving the fish etc as well as a host of photos but of course Luke has gone out!


ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hi Everyone

I have just returned from a sad visit to my my former home in the the French Midi to reclaim some of my more treasured personal possessions from the wreckage of my previous relationship.

I have been reading back and find what has been written about during my absence very depressing.

I just hope that the new lady in my life is able to lift my spirits.

I think an early night is badly needed and perhaps things will look better tomorrow.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, hope you do feel better tomorrow. Cheer up!

Boa noite, all.

docmac said...


So sorry, sir. I knew you wanted to return to Languedoc but I did not know it was to be a voyage that would cause you some pain. However, now that it is done, all strength to you in your new relationship and may happiness shine upon you. Best wishes to you and your new love. Long may it last.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia and Docmac

Many thanks for your best wishes.

Even though we have and will probably never meet, it is a wonderful experience to have caring cyber friends.