11 Apr 2009

CONSEQUENCES OF CHILD MALTREATMENT IN WEALTHY COUNTRIES - ACADEMIC RESEARCH

Smirking maniac - in love with his "media circus" no love for little Madeleine.
Burden and consequences of child maltreatment in high-income countries
Original Text
Prof Ruth Gilbert MD a Corresponding AuthorEmail Address, Prof Cathy Spatz Widom PhD b, Prof Kevin Browne PhD c d, David Fergusson PhD e, Elspeth Webb FRCPCH f, Prof Staffan Janson DM g
Summary
Child maltreatment remains a major public-health and social-welfare problem in high-income countries. Every year, about 4—16% of children are physically abused and one in ten is neglected or psychologically abused. During childhood, between 5% and 10% of girls and up to 5% of boys are exposed to penetrative sexual abuse, and up to three times this number are exposed to any type of sexual abuse. However, official rates for substantiated child maltreatment indicate less than a tenth of this burden. Exposure to multiple types and repeated episodes of maltreatment is associated with increased risks of severe maltreatment and psychological consequences. Child maltreatment substantially contributes to child mortality and morbidity and has longlasting effects on mental health, drug and alcohol misuse (especially in girls), risky sexual behaviour, obesity, and criminal behaviour, which persist into adulthood. Neglect is at least as damaging as physical or sexual abuse in the long term but has received the least scientific and public attention. The high burden and serious and long-term consequences of child maltreatment warrant increased investment in preventive and therapeutic strategies from early childhood.
This is the first in a Series of four papers about child maltreatment
Introduction
Maltreatment of children by their parents or other caregivers is a major public-health and social-welfare problem in high-income countries. It is common and can cause death, serious injury, and long-term consequences that affect the child's life into adulthood, their family, and society in general. The 2006 WHO report on prevention of child maltreatment1 drew attention to the need for this topic to achieve the prominence and investment in prevention and epidemiological monitoring that is given to other serious public-health concerns with lifelong consequences affecting children—such as HIV/AIDS, smoking, and obesity—and it recommended expansion of the scientific evidence base for the magnitude, effects, and preventability of the problem. This Series of four papers critically assesses this expanding evidence base with the aim of informing policy and practice relating to child maltreatment. We focus mainly on high-income countries and eastern European countries that are in economic transition, since the problem and systems for response differ in low-income and many middle-income countries. In this first paper of the Series, we aim to quantify the magnitude of the problem, its determinants, and consequences. The second charts the evidence underpinning recognition and response by professional agencies dealing with children. The third assesses what works for prevention of child maltreatment and associated impairment, and the final paper discusses how consideration of children's rights could enable a more coherent and effective approach to child maltreatment.
Key messages

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A substantial minority of children in high-income countries are maltreated by their caregivers
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Repeated abuse and high levels of neglect mean that for many children maltreatment is a chronic condition
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Parental poverty, low educational achievement, and mental illness are often associated with child maltreatment
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Child maltreatment has longlasting effects on mental health, drug and alcohol problems, risky sexual behaviour, obesity, and criminal behaviour, from childhood to adulthood
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Neglect is at least as damaging as physical or sexual abuse in the long term, but has received the least scientific and public attention
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The high burden and serious, longlasting consequences of child maltreatment warrant increased investment in preventive and therapeutic strategies from early childhood

Burden of child maltreatment and definitions
Child maltreatment encompasses any acts of commission or omission by a parent or other caregiver that result in harm, potential for harm, or threat of harm to a child (usually interpreted as up to 18 years of age), even if harm is not the intended result.2 Four forms of maltreatment are widely recognised: physical abuse; sexual abuse; psychological abuse, sometimes referred to as emotional abuse; and neglect. Increasingly, witnessing intimate-partner violence is also regarded as a form of child maltreatment. Consensus definitions place responsibility for safeguarding children from maltreatment on all caregivers, including teachers, trainers, or child minders (table 1).2 In practice, however, 80% or more of maltreatment is perpetrated by parents or parental guardians, apart from sexual abuse, which is mostly perpetrated by acquaintances or other relatives (table 1).
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Table 1Table imageOpens in a new browser window
Definitions of child maltreatment
Reliable measurement of the frequency and severity of child maltreatment is not straightforward. We review three types of studies that measure the frequency of maltreatment. The first two types are community studies based on self-reports from victims who are old enough to comply with surveys, or studies based on parents reporting severe physical punishment or patterns of care. The third type involves official statistics from agencies investigating victims (eg, child-protection services) or police (investigating victims and offenders). All these measures have biases and inconsistencies: thus the prevalence figures in panel 1 are presented as a range of estimates. Despite the uncertainty of these estimates, the gap between the low rates of maltreatment substantiated by child-protection agencies and the ten-fold higher rates reported by victims or parents underlines the fact that only a few children who are maltreated receive official attention.25—27 Studies that have linked self-reports to official statistics for child protection provide direct evidence of under-reporting to agencies. One study reported evidence of contact with child-protection services in only 5% of children who were physically abused and 8% of those sexually abused.26 Another showed that even children who were being monitored by agencies reported four to six times more episodes of abuse than did official records.28
Panel 1
Burden of maltreatment—prevalence of maltreatment in the past year per child population or cumulative prevalence during childhood
Agency reports
UK (England)

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1·50% of children were estimated to have been referred to social services for abuse (excluding neglect and intimate-partner violence);6 the rate for all social welfare referrals for children (<18 years) in 2007 was 4·96% per year7
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0·84% of all social welfare referrals were estimated to have been investigated for abuse;6 2·77% of children were investigated in 2007
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0·30% of children started on a child-protection plan in 2007 (previously child protection registration);7 reports according to primary reason were: neglect 44%, physical abuse 15%, multiple 10%, psychological abuse 23%, and sexual abuse 7%

USA

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4·78% of children were investigated in 20063
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1·21% of children were substantiated in 2006; primary reasons were: neglect 60%, physical abuse 10%, multiple 12%, psychological abuse/unknown 11%, and sexual abuse 7%

Canada

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2·15% of children were investigated in 20038
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0·47% of children remained suspicious8
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0·97% of children were substantiated; primary reasons were: neglect 38%, physical abuse 23%, psychological abuse 23%, and sexual abuse 9%

Australia

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3·34% of children were referred in 2002—039
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0·68% of children were substantiated; primary reasons were: neglect 34%, physical abuse 28%, psychological abuse 34%, and sexual abuse 10%

Self-reported maltreatment or parent-reported perpetration
Physical abuse

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3·7—16·3% (5—35% cumulative) of children per year experienced severe parental violence or worse, which is likely to place child at risk of harm; typically included studies classified hitting with fist/object, kicking, biting, threatening/using a knife/weapon as severe violence (review includes studies in UK, USA, New Zealand, Finland, Italy, and Portugal);10, 11 slapping, hitting, and grabbing were classified as minor violence and are not counted in the figures shown here
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12·2—29·7% is the yearly prevalence of physical abuse for Macedonia, Moldova, Latvia, and Lithuania12
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24—29% is the cumulative prevalence of physical abuse for Siberia, Russia, and Romania13, 14

Psychological abuse

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10·3% is the yearly prevalence of psychological abuse (verbal abuse by adults or told not wanted; US study)15
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4—9% is the cumulative prevalence based on categories consistent with severe emotional abuse (studies in Sweden, USA, and UK)16—18
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12·5—33·3% is the yearly prevalence of severe or moderate psychological abuse reported for four eastern European states (Macedonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Moldova)12

Sexual abuse

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Cumulative prevalence of any sexual abuse: 15—30% for girls and 5—15% for boys; cumulative prevalence of penetrative sexual abuse: 5—10% for girls and 1—5% for boys (any sexual abuse includes non-contact, contact, or penetrative abuse); figures are taken from population-based studies in developed countries (Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and USA)4, 19
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Similar results were derived in a meta-analysis by Andrews and colleagues20 of studies worldwide (93 for boys and 143 for girls): estimates of childhood prevalence rates were: non-contact sexual abuse (3·1% boys, 6·8% girls); contact sexual abuse (3·7% boys, 13·2% girls); penetrative sexual abuse (1·9% boys, 5·3% girls); and any sexual abuse (8·7% boys, 25·3% girls)

Neglect

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1·4—15·4% is the incidence15, 21 (6—11·8% cumulative childhood prevalence17, 22) of persistent absence of care or provision likely to place a child at risk of harm (eg, not enough food, no medical care when needed, no safe place to stay,15 serious absence of care,17 or in maternal reports—child hurt because of lack of supervision,21 self-report and maternal-report studies from USA and UK)

Witnessing intimate-partner violence*

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10—20% is the yearly prevalence estimates based on a review of US community studies by Carlson.23 Few recent studies have been undertaken
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8—25% is the childhood prevalence of witnessing intimate-partner violence—cross-sectional surveys of adolescents and adults18, 24

* This category is not included in child-protection reports, therefore not listed in first part of panel.
The discrepancies between official statistics and community studies are even more substantial when examined by age at maltreatment. National statistics from child-protection agencies in the UK and USA show an inverse relation between rate of reports and age for all categories of maltreatment apart from sexual abuse, which is stable across the age range.3, 7 Opposite trends have been noted for self-report or parent-report studies in the UK and USA for physical, sexual, or psychological abuse, whereas the prevalence of neglect seems to remain relatively constant.20, 27, 29 Explanations for these diverging trends include increased risks of under-reporting by parents of younger children, and underdetection of maltreatment by child-protection agencies in older children.
Although self-reports or parent reports are probably closer to the true, unobserved rate of maltreatment than are official reports to agencies, they might still be underestimates. Biases in self-reports of sexual abuse have been investigated, although problems such as forgetting, denial, misunderstanding, and embarrassment also apply to other forms of maltreatment.30 All these problems are likely to lead to the under-reporting rather than over-reporting of sexual abuse of children.25, 31, 32 Test-retest studies have shown modest to moderate agreement between successive self-reports by young adults of sexual or physical abuse several years later (κ coefficient 0·4—0·6) and good agreement is shown for all types of victimisation several weeks later.25, 27, 33 One study using latent class methods estimated that reported rates of child sexual abuse were roughly half the true but non-observed rate.25
Studies measuring physical abuse in young children use parent reports of physical violence, whereas parent or adolescent self-reports can be used in older children to yield similar estimates.25, 27 Comparison between official statistics and parent-report studies within a country suggest that only a small proportion of these cases are investigated by child-protection services (panel 1). For example, a systematic review in the UK estimated that around one in 30 children who were physically abused by parents (yearly prevalence 9%) were investigated by social-welfare services responsible for child protection, and only one in 250 children who were physically abused were monitored in accordance with a child-protection plan.10
Measurement of sexual abuse relies on retrospective self-report studies of episodes that are recalled years later by adolescents or adults. Between 5% and 10% of girls and 1% to 5% of boys are exposed to penetrative sexual abuse during childhood, although figures that include any form of sexual abuse are much higher (panel 1). These estimates are supported by results of a meta-analysis of worldwide studies of variable quality and methodologies,20 but they probably give a lower limit of the true rate of sexual abuse because of under-reporting.
Few studies have examined the prevalence of psychological abuse. Results from large population-based, self-report studies in the UK and USA showed that 8—9% of women and about 4% of men reported exposure to severe psychological abuse during childhood.16, 17 Similar figures have been recorded for psychological abuse in the past year in boys and girls (10·3%).15 Higher rates have been reported in eastern Europe by similar measures (panel 1).12
Measurement of neglect in the community is difficult, partly because there are many aspects of omission or lack of provision of care that are harmful or could place a child at risk of harm.34 UK and US studies noted that between 1·4% and 10·1% of children or their mothers reported persistent absence of care or instances in which a child was hurt because of insufficient supervision (panel 1). Neglect has received little attention from self-report and parent-report studies despite being the most frequent category of child maltreatment recorded by child-protection agencies (panel 1).3, 7
Children who witness intimate-partner violence can be harmed psychologically by witnessing the experience or by being caught up in the violence. The reported prevalence of witnessing intimate-partner violence during childhood ranges from 8—10% in Swedish children aged 15—16 years, who were surveyed in 2000 and 2006, to 24% reported in a survey of 8600 adult members of a US health maintenance organisation.18, 24 The risk of other forms of child maltreatment for witnesses of intimate-partner violence is 30—60%.35, 36
Children who are exposed to one type of maltreatment are often exposed to other types on several occasions or continuously. How frequently this abuse occurs is underestimated by official reports because recording of more than one type of maltreatment is often discouraged by child-protection agencies and official reports often do not capture the chronology of exposure over time. However, retrospective self-report studies consistently show that some children are exposed to more than one type of maltreatment.3, 7, 15, 16, 37 This pattern is emphasised by detailed examination of narratives in US child-protection reports of 519 cases of maltreatment, in which high rates of multiple types of maltreatment were reported (36—91% depending on the classification used) with emotional abuse rarely occurring alone (1·2%).38 Exposure to multiple types of abuse contributes to high rates of repeated referrals to child-protection services—eg, 22% of children with substantiated maltreatment in the US were re-reported within 24 months,39 with similar rates in the UK (24% within 27 months) and in eight European countries (7—33%).40—42 Factors that consistently affect re-reporting to agencies are primarily ongoing risk factors in the child (such as disability or chronic medical disorders), in the parent (such as alcohol misuse), indices of social adversity (such as low income, contact with services), and multiple or chronic maltreatment, particularly neglect.43 Re-report can also indicate increased surveillance.27,39,42—46
Much less is known from self-report studies about patterns of maltreatment for more than one child in a family. However, an analysis of child-protection referrals in the UK showed that maltreatment was restricted to one specific child, who was more likely to be abused physically or sexually, in 44% of 310 index cases. Referrals of multiple siblings (56% of cases) were linked to neglect or psychological abuse. Parental difficulties and family stressors—such as family conflict and separation, drug or alcohol misuse, or family criminality—were associated with maltreatment of all children in the family (37%).47
Throughout childhood, maltreatment by parents or other caregivers merges with other forms of victimisation. In a nationally representative study, Finkelhor and colleagues27, 48 noted that the 22% of children aged 2—17 years who had four or more types of victimisation in the previous year—including physical, sexual, or psychological abuse; neglect; or exposure to crime, assault, witnessing intimate-partner violence; or peer or sibling victimisation—were much more likely to be victimised the following year than were those who had fewer types of victimisation, and to have the most serious victimisations and most serious psychological symptomology. Evidence from several studies suggests that children who are exposed to one type of maltreatment are at high risk of other types and of repeated exposure over time, and that the frequency of exposure is correlated with the severity of maltreatment.16, 24, 48, 49 For a few children, maltreatment is a chronic condition, not an event.
Determinants of maltreatment
Characteristics of the victim
Understanding what characteristics of parent—child relationships place children at increased risk of maltreatment within a family is complex and beyond the scope of this review. Girls have a higher risk of being sexually abused than do boys, although rates of other types of maltreatment are similar for both sexes in high-income countries.3, 7, 20, 50 In low-income countries, girls are at higher risk for infanticide, sexual abuse, and neglect, whereas boys seem to be at greater risk of harsh physical punishment.51
Disabled children are at increased risk of maltreatment, although whether their disability is a cause or consequence is uncertain.52—54 A record-linkage study in the USA showed a cumulative prevalence of any maltreatment in 9% of non-disabled children and in 31% of disabled children.52 The overall prevalence of any recorded disability was 8%, but a quarter of all maltreated children had a disability.
Characteristics of the parents and community
Identification of the separate effects of parental characteristics on the risk of child maltreatment is challenging since many factors are inextricably clustered. Poverty, mental-health problems, low educational achievement, alcohol and drug misuse, and exposure to maltreatment as a child are strongly associated with parents maltreating their children. The extent to which each of these risk factors is causally related to the occurrence of maltreatment is hard to establish. Risk factors might affect the child differently depending on the type of maltreatment and might also be linked to the adverse consequences of maltreatment. The ecological model conceptualises maltreatment as multiply determined by forces at work in the individual, in the family, and in the community and culture, and suggests that these determinants modify each other. Thus, parental risk factors can be modified by the environment and community.55 Nevertheless, some relationships can be generalised. First, income and parental education are risk factors for child maltreatment, although their importance varies with the type of maltreatment.17, 22, 43, 56, 57 Second, socioeconomic inequalities are especially steep for deaths from child abuse.58 Third, in the USA, there is controversy about the extent to which ethnic differences in allegations and substantiation of maltreatment, and in deaths from injury due to maltreatment, are explained by sociodemographic characteristics.48,59—61 However, ethnic differences in the overall risk of maltreatment are largely explained by sociodemographic characteristics, apart from for children of mixed or multiracial heritage who have an increased risk.22 Fourth, although a clear pathway exists by which parental drug and alcohol problems can cause child maltreatment in individual families, evidence for a causal link within populations is less certain. However, substance misuse is undoubtedly a common factor in incidents involving both spouse and child maltreatment.62
Last, the community environment seems to have a small to moderate effect in addition to family and individual characteristics. A UK cohort study63 reported that individual strengths distinguished resilient from non-resilient children who were exposed to physical abuse under conditions of low but not high family and neighbourhood stress, which was manifested by high crime and low social cohesion, and informal social control. Similarly, a systematic review64 reported that 10% of the variation in child health and adolescent outcomes, including maltreatment, was explained by neighbourhood socioeconomic status and social climate.
Changes over time
Evidence suggests that physical and sexual abuse are decreasing in some settings. In the USA, substantiated reports of sexual and physical abuse have fallen by around 50% from the mid-1990s to 2005 (webfigure 1),27, 50, 65 with a similar trend in England (webfigure 2).7 These decreases are probably accurate estimates since they are present across both types of abuse with no preponderance of equivocal cases. No analysis of trends in Europe has been done, despite clear evidence, at least in Sweden, of a reduction in acceptance and occurrence of parental violence towards children since the 1960s (figure).18 Further research is needed to confirm these trends that emphasise the predominance and continuing problem of neglect and the rise in recognition of psychological abuse, which is often associated with other forms of family violence (webfigures 1 and 2).
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Figure Full-size image (33K)
Time trends in parental violence towards children in Sweden
Parental attitudes are based on nationally representative interview surveys (1965, 1968, 1971, 1980) and questionnaire surveys (1994, 2000, 2006). Child attitudes are based on questionnaire surveys of schoolchildren aged 13 and 16 years in 1994, 2000, and 2006. Responses are to the question “Is it right to punish your child physically (including a box on the ear) if they have made you angry” (for children “Is it OK for your parents to hit you if you have made them angry?”). Parental violence is based on parent-reported physical punishment in the past year and child reports on parental violence in preschool years.18
Differences between countries
Comparisons of the prevalence or incidence of maltreatment between different countries need parent-report or self-report studies using similar survey methods. Few such studies have been published. 30 years ago, Gelles and Edfeldt66 reported a 5% higher prevalence of physical abuse in the past year in the USA than in Sweden when the same instrument was used. A meta-regression of self-report studies20 indicates higher rates of sexual abuse in the USA than in Europe (22% vs 15%), although differences might be partly due to less sensitive survey methods in the European studies. The agency reports for different countries in panel 1 are difficult to compare since they reflect different systems and thresholds.
Child maltreatment is a particular concern in the newly independent eastern and central European states, where the economic transition in the past 15 years has been associated with substantial rises in premature adult mortality (panel 1).67, 68 Although data are scarce, a questionnaire survey of children aged 10—14 years (n=1145) in Macedonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Moldova recorded the lowest yearly prevalence rates of severe and moderate psychological abuse and physical abuse in Macedonia (18% and 12%, respectively) and the highest in Moldova (43% and 29%, respectively).12 Abuse was higher in rural areas than in urban areas, and was associated with parental overuse of alcohol.12 Other studies report similar rates of child sexual abuse to those in western Europe.13, 69 As in western Europe, by far the greatest problem is neglect. The WHO national prevalence study of child maltreatment in Romanian families showed that physical neglect was reported by 46% of adolescents surveyed, emotional neglect by 44%, and educational neglect by 34%.13 These rates are much higher than are those in western Europe.41 A WHO study in Samara, Russia, reported that the identification of neglect by health and social services is seven times more common than is identification of physical abuse.70 In two-thirds of all cases of maltreatment, the parents were recorded as alcoholic. The usual response to such cases in 2002 was to place the child into residential or foster care. However, the chances of physical and sexual abuse in residential care are even higher than in family-based care (panel 2).
Panel 2
Prevalence of abuse in residential care institutions
About 1·3 million children (aged 0—17 years) are in social-care facilities within 20 countries in eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union.71 Physical and sexual abuse by caregivers and peers in these institutions seems to be common.72 In 2000, an anonymous questionnaire study of 3164 children in residential care aged 7—18 years (8% of all children in residential care in Romania) showed that 38% reported severe physical punishment or beatings, usually by residential care staff (in 77% of cases).73 A fifth of respondents (roughly half were boys) claimed to have been blackmailed or coerced into sexual activity, and a further 4% claimed that they were constrained to have sex. The reported perpetrators of these acts of sexual abuse were older residents of the same sex (50%), older residents of the opposite sex (12%), institutional staff (1·3%) offending inside the institution, as well as relatives (4%), other young people (3%), and adults (1%) offending outside the institution. 29% of respondents would not identify their perpetrator. Public scandals involving the sexual exploitation of children in residential care by their carers occur worldwide, with recent examples in Belgium, Portugal, UK, and Ireland.51 However, the consistency of the problem across residential care homes in Romania suggests endemic abuse, which, given that 1·9% of children are in residential care at any one time in that country, represents a major public-health problem.73
Death from child maltreatment
The most tragic manifestation of the burden of child maltreatment is the thousands of child deaths every year due to deliberate killing (homicide) or neglect (manslaughter). WHO estimated that 155 000 deaths in children younger than 15 years occur worldwide every year as a result of abuse or neglect, which is 0·6% of all deaths and 12·7% of deaths due to any injury.51 Only a third of these deaths are classified as homicide. Furthermore, substantial under-reporting occurs because of insufficient routine investigations and post-mortem examinations of child deaths in most countries.74 The biological parents are responsible for four-fifths of cases, and step-parents are to blame for most of the remaining cases (15% of the total).74
Child homicide occurs most frequently during infancy—in the UK, 35% of child homicide victims (<16 years) are younger than 1 year.74, 75 In infancy, homicide is equally likely to be perpetrated by the mother and the father; however, for older children, the perpetrator is usually a man.75 Large differences in infant homicide rates exist between high-income countries, with the highest rates recorded in the USA and lowest in Scandinavia and southern Europe.76 An analysis of infant homicide rates between 1945 and 1998 in 39 countries confirmed previously reported associations between infant homicide and higher rates of female participation in the workforce and income inequalities.77
According to WHO estimates, rates of death in children younger than 15 years due to homicide or manslaughter in central and eastern Europe and the newly independent states of the former Soviet Union are consistently higher than in the western European countries of the EU (webfigure 3). The peak incidence from 1993 to 2003 coincided with the period of economic and political transition when community services were severely disrupted.68 Despite improvement over the past 30 years in child protection in western European countries and the USA, there has been very little decrease in the rate of child homicides.78, 79
Long-term consequences of child maltreatment
Since groundbreaking work in the early 1970s drew attention to the battered child syndrome, research designed to quantify the long-term consequences of child maltreatment has grown.80 Here we summarise the evidence for associations between different types of maltreatment and outcomes related to education, mental health, physical health, and violence or criminal behaviour. Findings from cohort studies that prospectively ascertained whether children were maltreated or not, and which followed up these children over time to identify later outcomes, are contrasted with more diverse work of cohort and cross-sectional studies that measure maltreatment retrospectively, usually on the basis of self-reporting in adolescence or adulthood. Since we are interested in the consequences of child maltreatment, we want to assess causality. Thus, the strengths of prospective studies include the temporal ordering of maltreatment and subsequent outcomes, objective measurement of maltreatment, avoidance of recall bias, minimisation of selective inclusion of participants on the basis of the outcome, and the opportunity to adjust for social and individual confounding factors as they occur.
All these factors are weaknesses of studies using retrospective measurement of maltreatment, especially since the temporal ordering of maltreatment and outcomes cannot be reliably established. Recall bias is also a concern, with ambiguity about whether consequences are due to the actual abuse experience, aftermath of the abuse experience, or a person's cognitive appraisal of the experience. However, studies that use only official cases of child maltreatment might detect only the few maltreated children who come to professional attention, who might differ in some ways from other maltreated children and whose outcomes could also be different. The problem of representativeness, which can distort the prevalence and effect size, is reduced for population-based longitudinal cohort studies. The validity of various methods of assessing and studying maltreatment is a source of ongoing debate.81, 82 Our analysis endeavours to draw on the strengths of prospective and retrospective studies and, when available, on findings from systematic reviews (table 2).
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Table 2Table imageOpens in a new browser window
Summary of review findings on consequences of child maltreatment—evidence for an association in prospective and retrospective studies
Education and employment
Child maltreatment is associated with long-term deficits in educational achievement. Prospective longitudinal studies have consistently shown that maltreated children have lower educational achievement than do their peers, and are more likely to receive special education83—86 (Jonson-Reid and colleagues83 found that 24% of maltreated children received special education at a mean age of 8 years, compared with 14% of children with no maltreatment record). The differences are substantial—eg, only 42% of the maltreated children completed high school compared with two-thirds of community-matched controls.85 Another prospective study showed that decreases in school attendance and school performance were related to the timing of maltreatment, and were cumulative.87 Most of these associations persisted after adjustment for family and social characteristics (eg, ethnic origin, age, sex, and socioeconomic status), as seen in some but not all studies. A longitudinal population-based cohort study in New Zealand,86 with retrospective ascertainment of child maltreatment, confirmed these reduced levels of educational achievement in adults who had been physically or sexually abused (eg, 6—10% of abused children attained a university degree compared with 28% of those not abused) but such differences were largely explained by social, parental, and individual characteristics. Exposure of children to intimate-partner violence also seems to be linked to low educational achievement, but the extent to which this factor is independent of other forms of child maltreatment is unclear.88
Although the risk of underachievement in education is clearly high in children who are maltreated, evidence for a causal link is mixed. Studies are needed from outside the USA to help quantify the extent of this burden in different educational settings.
Maltreatment has longlasting economic consequences for affected individuals.89 In a prospective study of court documented cases of childhood maltreatment and community-matched controls, significantly more of the abused and neglected individuals were in menial and semi-skilled occupations than were controls (62% vs 45%) at 29 years of age, and fewer had remained in employment during the past 5 years (41% vs 58%). Further research is needed to examine the effect of child maltreatment on economic productivity throughout life and in different settings.
Mental-health outcomes
Child maltreatment increases the risk of behaviour problems, including internalising (anxiety, depression) and externalising (aggression, acting out) behaviour.84,90—95
Children who witness intimate-partner violence are at increased risk of behaviour problems, but whether this factor is independent of other forms of maltreatment is contentious.88, 96, 97 Behaviour problems in childhood seem to be strongly determined by early timing of maltreatment, although whether early physical or psychological abuse, or neglect, is most damaging at this age is unclear.90, 98 Behaviour problems that arise later in adolescence might be related most strongly to maltreatment during adolescence.91 Consistent evidence suggests a cumulative effect of different types of maltreatment on later behaviour problems,91, 99 with one group concluding “there is no point beyond which services for children are hopeless…every risk factor we can reduce matters”.99
Maltreated children have a moderately increased risk of depression in adolescence and adulthood (adjusted odds ratios ranging from 1·3 to 2·4), which only partly reflects the family context in which maltreatment occurs.84,91,92,95,100—103 Because depression is common and serious—around a quarter to a third of maltreated children meet criteria for major depression by their late 20s (with use of criteria from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders [DSM])92, 102, 104—this association represents a substantial burden. For many affected individuals, the onset of depression begins in childhood, reinforcing the need for early intervention in the lives of these abused and neglected children, before symptoms of depression cascade into other spheres of functioning.91, 102 Depression is associated with neglect and physical and sexual abuse, with no clear evidence for a specific effect of any particular type of maltreatment. Some investigators have shown a dose response, with depression more likely with harsh or severe physical abuse than with less severe forms of maltreatment.20, 92
Evidence suggests that child maltreatment increases the risk of post-traumatic stress disorder, which, by definition, develops after a terrifying event or ordeal. Symptoms include recurrent intrusion of frightening thoughts and memories, sleep difficulties, and detached or numb feelings, which can substantially affect a person's ability to function. Prospective and retrospective studies consistently show associations between physical or sexual abuse or neglect and post-traumatic stress disorder in adolescents and adults, which persist after controlling for family and child characteristics that are correlated with maltreatment.20,84,95,105—108 These effects can be longlasting. One prospective study105 of children who were maltreated before 12 years of age and assessed at 29 years reported that 23% of people who were sexually abused, 19% of those physically abused, and 17% of those neglected, had a present diagnosis of post-traumatic stress disorder (with use of DSM-III criteria) compared with 10% of controls, and lifetime risks of this disorder were much higher in cases than in controls. However, family, individual, and lifestyle variables, such as having a parent who is an alcoholic or has been arrested, also increased the risk of post-traumatic stress disorder. A meta-analysis20 of studies of children who have been sexually abused suggests a dose-response effect, with higher risks associated with penetrative sexual abuse than with contact or non-contact abuse.
Evidence for an association between childhood maltreatment and adult psychosis is inconclusive.109—111 No clear link between personality disorder and maltreatment has been noted,89 although one prospective study101 showed an increased risk of personality disorder in maltreated children including those exposed to verbal abuse, which was independent of physical or sexual abuse or neglect. These findings emphasise the need for further research into the effects of psychological abuse.
Consistent evidence suggests that both physical abuse and sexual abuse are associated with a doubling of the risk of attempted suicide for young people who are followed up into their late 20s. For physical and sexual abuse, these effects persist after adjustment for confounding family and individual variables,89, 92 but for neglect, these effects are mainly explained by family context.100 According to cross-sectional studies, the risk of attempted suicide increases with the accumulation of multiple adversities, including repeated maltreatment and witnessing intimate-partner violence.112, 113 The risk of attempted suicide can be very high in young people. Widom and colleagues89 reported lifetime rates of 19% in 29-year-old adults who were abused or neglected as children compared with 8% of community-matched controls, whereas a population-based cohort in New Zealand reported suicide attempts by 11—21% of young adults or adolescents who were exposed to severe physical abuse or penetrative sexual abuse compared with 1—3% of controls.92 Similar rates have been reported in a systematic review of ten studies114 and one prospective study in New York, which showed that 6% of adolescents who were abused made multiple suicide attempts.100
The hypothesis that children who have been sexually abused use self-injurious behaviour (such as cutting) as a maladaptive coping mechanism is only weakly supported by a systematic review of 45 retrospective studies.115 By contrast, a prospective study reported a strong association with sexual abuse but no association with physical abuse or neglect.116
Converging evidence from prospective and retrospective studies suggests that child maltreatment increases the risk of alcohol problems in adolescence and adulthood. These effects are moderate and persist in some but not all studies after adjustment for family characteristics and parental alcohol use.20,22,91,92,102,117—119 On the basis of results from a prospective study with follow up at 29 and 39 years of age,102, 117 and from a systematic review of 224 studies,119 the association with alcohol problems, at least in adulthood, is confined to girls. These findings emphasise the need for interventions for girls and young women to prevent the development of alcohol problems and the associated health, safety, and social problems that excessive drinking in women can cause. For example, problem drinking in women increases the risk of fetal alcohol syndrome and might affect their ability to look after a child.120
The link between child maltreatment and drug dependency is not straightforward.22, 84, 91, 92, 121 One prospective study122 reported that individuals who were maltreated in childhood were no more likely to have a diagnosis of drug dependency by the age of 29 years than were community controls. However, when a different measure of drug use is used, individuals who were abused and neglected were at increased risk for present illicit drug use at roughly 40 years of age.121 Investigators of this study speculated that although individuals who had experienced neglect or abuse would mature out of drug use, abused and neglected individuals might continue in a problematic drug-use trajectory. Cross-sectional studies indicate that exposure to multiple forms of abuse and other childhood adversities, including witnessing intimate-partner violence, leads to a cumulative increase in the risk of self-reported alcohol or drug misuse in adulthood.123, 124
Overall, the burden of mental ill health resulting from child maltreatment is substantial. A New Zealand cohort study92 estimated that physical abuse accounted for 5% of mental disorders and sexual abuse for 13%, after taking account of the family context in which maltreatment occurs.
How exposure to maltreatment of different types, at different developmental stages, leads to adverse mental-health outcomes is complex, although early and cumulative maltreatment seem to be particularly harmful to the development of the brain.125, 126 The webappendix summarises the evidence for biological mechanisms that link child maltreatment and later outcomes.
Physical-health outcomes
Four very different prospective longitudinal studies127—130 have reported strong associations between physical abuse, neglect, and sexual abuse and obesity, which persist after accounting for family characteristics and individual risk factors, such as childhood obesity. Large differences in the magnitude of this association between studies (adjusted odds ratios range from 1·3 to 9·8)129, 130 probably indicate differences in exposure and outcome measures and analyses. Retrospective studies also suggest an association between child sexual abuse and eating disorders (eg, bulimia and anorexia), but there is less information about other forms of maltreatment.131 Several large cross-sectional studies have reported relations between multiple child adversities, including child maltreatment, and a range of health outcomes in adulthood (eg, ischaemic heart disease, cancer, chronic lung disease, skeletal fractures, and liver disease), albeit with little adjustment for lifetime confounders.132, 133
Abnormally overt or intrusive sexualised behaviour is a common problem in preteen children who are exposed to sexual abuse.134 However, sexualised behaviour is not specific to child sexual abuse and has been associated with physical abuse, characteristics of family adversity, coercive parenting, child behaviour, and modelling of sexual behaviour.135
Most studies that have examined the relation between child maltreatment and sexual behaviour in adolescence and adulthood have focused on outcomes for sexual abuse. An exception is a prospective study with follow-up at 29 years of age, which reported a significant association between physical or sexual abuse or neglect and arrest for prostitution or being paid for sex (13% of cases vs 4% of controls for girls, p=0·001; 15% vs 8% for boys, p=0·17), but no significant associations with promiscuity or teenage pregnancy.136 In two prospective studies,91, 137 child maltreatment was associated with teenage pregnancy. In one study,136 HIV was twice as common in abused and neglected individuals as in controls, although the difference did not reach conventional levels of significance most likely because of weak statistical power.136 A systematic review and meta-analysis of various types of study, most with retrospective ascertainment of abuse status, similarly reported the strongest associations between child sexual abuse and sex trading in adolescence or adulthood, and showed greater effects for women than for men.112,138—140 Small to moderate effects of child sexual abuse on increased rates of teenage pregnancy have been noted, as well as earlier onset of sexual activity, greater numbers of sexual partners, increased rates of abortion, and increased risks of sexually transmitted disease.4,138,140—145 These effects are stronger with more severe146, 147 or repeated145 sexual abuse or exposure to multiple childhood adversities.148, 149 Emerging evidence also suggests that exposure to child sexual abuse might be related to later sexual orientation.150 Overall, these findings suggest associations between exposure to child sexual abuse and subsequent sexual adjustment.
Controversy about a possible link between childhood maltreatment and chronic pain in adulthood emphasises the differences between prospective and retrospective measures of child maltreatment and the advantages of considering both types of study design. A prospective study based on children with maltreatment documented by courts and community-matched controls showed no association with chronic pain reported in adulthood at 29 years of age.151 However, when groups were compared on the basis of retrospective self-reports of child maltreatment, the association with chronic pain was significant (p<0·0001).152 Similar evidence of a modest association between child sexual or physical abuse (but not neglect), and pain in adulthood has been reported.151,153—156
These findings draw attention to the distinction between how people remember and interpret abusive childhood experiences and exposure to child abuse. They establish an association between memories of childhood abuse and chronic pain in adulthood and further suggest that abused individuals with chronic pain are more likely to seek health care than are non-abused individuals with chronic pain.151 However, we cannot conclude that child abuse or neglect causes chronic pain in adulthood.
Despite the evidence for diverse and serious consequences of child maltreatment, a systematic review157 found no studies measuring quality of life during childhood after maltreatment, and only four studies in adults. Further research, based on modification of existing methods and development of measures that can be used for younger children, is needed for economic assessments of the burden of child maltreatment and cost-effectiveness of intervention strategies. Studies in North America158, 159 and Australia160 have shown increased service use and costs associated with child maltreatment, but research is lacking elsewhere in the world and in other public sectors.
Aggression, crime, and violence
In addition to feeling considerable pain and suffering themselves, abused and neglected children are at increased risk of becoming aggressive and inflicting pain and suffering on others, often perpetrating crime and violence. One paper on the cycle of violence161 reported that being physically abused or neglected as a child increased the likelihood of arrest as a juvenile (31% arrested vs 19% of community-matched controls) and as an adult (48% vs 36%). Since that time, similar effects on criminal behaviour have been reported in the USA despite differences in geographical region, time period, age of adolescent, definition of maltreatment, and assessment technique.95,137,162—167 These findings are supported by systematic reviews of retrospective studies, showing that physical and sexual abuse predict delinquency or violence in boys and girls,168 although physical abuse might be most strongly related to youth violence in girls.169 A direct comparison of different types of maltreatment found that children who were physically or sexually abused were more likely to carry a weapon in adolescence than were neglected children, because of a perceived need for self protection.170 Evidence that risks of youth violence cumulate when child abuse persists into adolescence suggests a need for interventions to prevent ongoing abuse.169
Future research
Child maltreatment is common, and for many it is a chronic condition, with repeated and ongoing maltreatment merging into adverse outcomes throughout childhood and into adulthood. The burden on the children themselves and on society is substantial. At the same time, variation in rates of maltreatment between countries, particularly for infant homicides, and a possible decrease in recent years in sexual and physical abuse in some high-income countries, shows that the present high burden of child maltreatment is not inevitable. International comparative studies are needed, especially in countries outside North America and northern Europe, to help learn lessons from different settings about how to prevent child maltreatment and its consequences. The high burden and serious and longlasting consequences of child maltreatment warrant increased investment in preventive and therapeutic strategies from early childhood. Research into what works at an individual and policy level is a priority.171, 172
More research is needed into characteristics of responses by communities, families, and services that help with healthy development rather than exacerbate the child's problems. This research includes improved understanding of the many ways in which children are victimised at different stages of development.27
More attention needs to be given to neglected children. There is mounting evidence that the consequences of childhood neglect can be as damaging—or perhaps even more damaging—to a child than physical or sexual abuse. More attention also needs to be paid to the potentially different needs of boys and girls who are maltreated. Although classrooms and neighbourhoods are disrupted more by deviant behaviour of boys than of girls, research shows that maltreatment doubles a girl's risk of being arrested for a violent crime and increases risk for subsequent alcohol and drug problems, with implications for her children.
Search strategy and selection criteria
We did a comprehensive search of PubMed, Psychinfo, and Education Resources Information Center (ERIC) for any systematic reviews or overviews related to child maltreatment published after 2000 (to June, 2008) and then scrutinised reference lists of relevant studies. We also searched PubMed, ERIC, and Psychinfo using additional synonyms and indexing terms specific to each outcome. Searches on PubMed were enhanced with the related articles facility for selected studies. Recent psychological abstracts, child abuse and neglect abstracts, and criminal justice abstracts were also searched. We searched websites posted by governments or major advocacy bodies on child maltreatment for reports on incidence and prevalence rates.
Conflict of interest statement
We declare that we have no conflict of interest.
Acknowledgments
We thank the following people who helped provide data, references, or undertook searches for the review: Maria Keller-Hamela, Nobody's Children Foundation, Warsaw, Poland; Dinesh Seth, WHO Rome Office, Violence programme; Helen Wadsworth Wilson, City University of New York; and Melissa Harden, UCL-Institute of Child Health, London. We thank Toni Pitcher, Christchurch Health and Development Study, University Otago, New Zealand, for contributing to the web panel on biological mechanisms; and the editorial group for the Series: Rosalyn Proops, Richard Reading, Harriet MacMillan, Danya Glaser, and Pat Hamilton, for commenting on drafts of the review.
WebExtra Content
Webappendix
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Biological factors linking child maltreatment and mental-health outcomes
Webfigure 1
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Child maltreatment between 1990 and 2005 in the USA reported to the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System
Source: US Department of Health and Human Services, Administration on Children Youth and Families. Child Maltreatment 2006. Washington DC: US Government Printing Office, 2008.
Webfigure 2
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Number of child-protection registrations in England according to primary type of maltreatment and overall rate of registration per 10 000 child population (younger than 18 years)
Source: Department for Children, Schools and Families. Referrals, assessments and children and young people who are the subject of a child protection plan or are on child protection registers: year ending March 31, 2007. London: Department for Children, Schools and Families, 2008.
Webfigure 3
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Age-standardised rates of child death (0—14 years) due to homicide or manslaughter per 100 000 population in the WHO European Region
Source: WHO Regional Office for Europe. Health for All database (HFA-DB). Copenhagen: WHO Regional Office for Europe, 2008. http://www.euro.who.int/hfadb (accessed Oct 14, 2008).
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172 Reading R, Bissell S, Goldhagen J, et al. Promotion of children's rights and prevention of child maltreatment. Lancet 200810.1016/S0140-6736(08)61709-2. published online Dec 3. PubMed
a Centre for Evidence-Based Child Health and MRC Centre of Epidemiology for Child Health, UCL Institute of Child Health, London, UK
b Psychology Department, John Jay College, City University of New York, NY, USA
c Institute of Work, Health and Organisations, University of Nottingham, Nottingham, UK
d WHO Collaborating Centre on Child Care and Protection, University of Birmingham, Birmingham, UK
e Christchurch Health and Development Study, Department of Psychological Medicine, Christchurch School of Medicine and Health Sciences, Christchurch, New Zealand
f Department of Child Health, School of Medicine, Cardiff University, Cardiff, UK
g Department of Public Health, Karlstad University, Karlstad, Sweden
Corresponding Author Information Correspondence to: Prof Ruth Gilbert, Centre for Evidence-based Child Health and MRC Centre of Epidemiology for Child Health, UCL Institute of Child Health, 30 Guilford Street, London WC1 1EH, UK

171 comments:

viv said...

This guide on preventing child maltreatment is also really interesting but long. Reading it you would tend to draw the conclusion that Kate was the one most likely to have killed Madeleine, when you think of her comments about how she cried all the time and blamed Madeleine etc. It is also very interesting in pointing out how risky parents are who abuse drugs and alcohol which again seems applicable in Madeleine's case.

A staggering 20 per cent of adult women in wealthy nations state they were sexually abused as children. It also links serious disease in adults such as addictions, diabetes, heart disease, alcoholism, obesity, cancer etc to their experiences of childhood abuse.


http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2006/9241594365_eng.pdf

viv said...

It points out that 0-4 years is the most dangerous age for children to suffer homicide with the mother and father equally likely to have caused it. In older children more often the father. The most common injury causing death, head injury caused without the use of any weapon by a push or blow. Chilren being knocked up against something like a kitchen cupboard or wall is very common. Interestingly this study found that parents often stated the child fell from the sofa! but this was generally not found to be the actual cause of death.

viv said...

Two burglars ransack an American woman's living room as she sits at work 25 miles away watching them on her computer screen and giving a running commentary to the cops. The parrot happily chirps away, the cat and dogs clearly unnerved. Then in bursts four armed cops, ha ha!

Now that is what I call Justice!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1168950/Terrified-woman-watches-live-online-burglars-break-home.html

viv said...

This is very interesting, what if both the Tanner and Smith sightings are just deliberate fakes? I am sure I have read before about a white transit van being nearby.

Wear couple told police: We saw Maddie


Madeleine McCann went missing more than a year ago.
Madeleine McCann went missing more than a year ago.
Madeleine McCann went missing more than a year ago.
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Published Date:
07 August 2008
By Tim Booler
A Sunderland couple told police they saw Madeleine McCann 28 hours after she disappeared.
Richard and Susan McCluskey reported seeing a "lifeless" child of about Maddie's age being carried by a drunk-looking man who was with a distressed woman, who they were "almost certain" was her mum Kate.

The Portuguese case files, released this week more than a year after the youngster disappeared, showed that dad-of-three Mr McCluskey made the claims in a second statement a number of months after the alleged sighting in the Algarve.

Portuguese police investigated the claim, and believed the couple were Ukrainians with a blonde daughter of Maddie's age.

Mrs McCann and her husband Gerry, from Leicestershire, denied having any involvement in the disappearance, and had their "arguido" official suspects status lifted last month.

The potential sighting of Maddie by the McCluskeys, from South Hylton, was one of many reported to Portuguese police.

They were all investigated but came to nothing.

However, Mr and Mrs McCluskey said they have never had any response to the information provided in their statements, and would like to have been told it had been eliminated to give them peace of mind.

Their account of what they saw and said in police statements has never been published.

The Sunderland holidaymakers were in the resort of Alvor, about 20 minutes drive along the coast from Praia la Luz, where the McCann family was stating.

Mr and Mrs McCluskey were on their way back to their apartment from an Irish bar in the early hours of May 5, 2007, when they saw a white Transit-style flatbed truck stop in the middle of the road.

Mr McCluskey, 62, said a man got out and staggered about 200 yards to a gate, carrying a child of about three to four years old over his left shoulder, and that there was "no movement at all" in the youngster.

They were aware a child was missing in the area and thought the situation was strange so took down the van registration, with Mrs McCluskey, 50, writing it on her hand before they found some paper.

As they were doing so a woman ran towards the van, "clearly in distress".

Mr McCluskey told the Echo she looked like actress Faye Dunaway and added: "She was white as a ghost and shaking", and did not reply when asked if she needed help.

In a police statement he said a Portuguese couple came by and said the man and woman acting strangely had earlier been in an argument.

He reported the van's details to police in Portugal, and only made a statement after being contacted by Northumbria Police after getting home to Sunderland.

Mr McCluskey said he was also contacted by Interpol to provide a drawing of the area as described in his statement.

On September 12, he gave a second statement at Farringdon Hall Police Station, which read: "The events of the past week or so, with the McCanns being very much in the news, have triggered my memory in relation to the incident.

"In my original statement I described a distressed female who ran down a road towards a white van I had described.

"Having viewed news footage of Mrs McCann I am now almost certain she is the female I described as being in a distressed state.

"I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle."

He added: "I've agonised for days over whether or not to contact police about this because it is a terrible thing to accuse somebody of.

"It had just not crossed my mind that the child's parents could in some way be involved in her disappearance."

Also in his second statement, made after watching news coverage of Kate and Gerry McCann returning to Britain from Portugal, Mr McCluskey added: "Another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children.

"The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.

"Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr McCann held the child that made me think."




Sightings flooded in from around the world

Possible sightings of Madeleine McCann flooded into the Algarve police incident room from around the world.

A little girl calling herself Maddie and claiming to have been taken from her mum on holiday was seen in Amsterdam. A shop worker claimed she was told the child was with a French travelling circus.

A report was filed on June 18, 2007, but it is not clear what action was taken.

The morning after Maddie's disappearance, CCTV in a service station near Praia de Luz captured a young blond girl hand in hand with a woman. Kate and Gerry McCann were shown the images and said it was not their daughter.

On May 4 last year a witness called Malcolm Smith saw a "very upset" little girl wearing a pink top, with a tall man at the Moonfleet Manor Hotel in Fleet, near Weymouth, Dorset.

A Portuguese woman called UK free phone police line Crimestoppers to report seeing a child who looked "just like" Madeleine with two women at a Lisbon subway station on May 5 or 6.

A woman contacted Leicestershire Police to report seeing Madeleine at Gatwick Airport on May 8.

Mary Jones said she was "convinced" the child she saw – accompanied by a woman whose dark bob haircut which "could well have been a wig" – was the missing girl.

She speculated that Madeleine could have been at Gatwick en route for Marrakech in Morocco.

Between May 5 and 17 last year British police logged sightings in Spain from Marbella, Huelva, Salou, Valencia, Pampaneira, Vera, Riviera del Sol and Guardamar del Segura.

The Finnish embassy in Estonia passed on a report that a woman clutching a young girl "very much alike" Madeleine had been seen in Riga's old town on July 3 last year.

The police files also show that Kate McCann begged Portuguese detectives to end her "torture" by keeping her informed about the search for Madeleine.

However, two strikingly similar e-fit pictures of suspects given to police in the first week of the hunt for Maddie were never made public.

Last month prosecutors announced they were shelving the case, although it can be reopened if credible new evidence comes to light.



Probe into paedophile ring lead

Police intelligence, suggesting Madeleine McCann may have been snatched for a Belgian paedophile ring, is being investigated by private detectives for the little girl's parents.

Scotland Yard passed on a report from an informant who said a photograph of the child on holiday in Portugal was taken and passed to a "purchaser" in Belgium days before she vanished.

The information was contained in an email from the Metropolitan Police's CO14 clubs and vice intelligence unit, included in a massive dossier of evidence made public this week.

Portuguese police pursued the lead with Interpol, which gathered further reports from Belgium, the UK, Finland and Germany, but ruled that all but the German intelligence showed "lack of credibility".

McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "The private investigators, as with all the other sightings and all the other information, will be pursuing this line as an absolute priority to establish if it has been fully investigated and properly ruled out."



The full article contains 1259 words and appears in n/a newspaper.

viv said...

Faye Dunnaway, just a bit like Kate, I would think, certainly long blond hair, high cheekbones, thin etc

http://www.itusozluk.com/gorseller.php/faye+dunaway/13723

viv said...

Clarence Mitchell: WE are dismissing this primarily because the timing is all wrong, and how does he know that? Oh Kate and Gerry told him, of course!


Madeleine McCann was in my taxi, man claims


By Natalie Paris
Last Updated: 2:29AM GMT 29 Feb 2008
Madeleine McCann was in my taxi, driver claims
Claims Madeleine was quiet and dressed in her pyjamas

A taxi driver has reportedly claimed to have taken Madeleine McCann and Robert Murat for a ride in his cab on the night the toddler vanished.

* All the latest on the Madeleine McCann investigation

Antonio Cardoso, 67, alleges that Madeleine was with three men and a woman who were waiting at a taxi rank in Monte Gordo near the Spanish border.

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Madeleine McCann: Search fund could run out
*
Gerry McCann returns to resort where his daughter Madeleine disappeared
*
Kirk Reid: Police only arrested serial sex attacker four years after he became a suspect

The Sun newspaper reports that he took them on a short journey to a hotel where the group transferred to a jeep with foreign number plates.

Mr Cardoso claimed the girl in the back of his taxi at 8.10pm on May 3 was wearing pink pyjamas and had a distinctive mark in her eye.

He said he later recognised one of the men as Robert Murat after watching a television programme.

The claims have shocked Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, who have rejected them for being incompatible with the known chain of events that night.

Murat was made an official suspect, or arguido, two weeks after the little girl disappeared but has always denied any involvement in the case.

Mr Cardoso said he drove the group in silence for about two miles from the Hotel Apolo in Vila Real de Santo Antonio near Faro, with the man who he believed to be Murat sat beside him in the front passenger seat.

He claimed the girl he thought was Madeleine was awake but said nothing during the trip and stared straight ahead.

He told the Sun: "I noticed her eye because my son was born with a defect much the same. I saw her kind of twist her chin a few times in my rear-view mirror.

"I remember she was in pink pyjamas and wondered why they hadn't dressed her."

He described the adults as casually dressed and the woman as a slim blonde.

Mr Cardoso said he had informed the police of the apparent encounter but as well as Metodo 3, the private detective agency hired by the McCanns.

But the McCanns spokesman Clarence Mitchell told the newspaper: "We are dismissing this primarily because the timings are entirely wrong."

viv said...

Notice how it was reported the main three PJ wanted to interview were Tanner, Payne and O'Brien.




Portuguese police will arrive in Britain within the next ten days to reinterview friends of Kate and Gerry McCann over the disappearance of their four-year-old daughter, Madeleine.

David Payne, Jane Tanner and her partner Russell O'Brien are set to be quizzed first in a last-ditch attempt by cops to crack the mystery. Police will then decide whether to requestion other members of the so-called Tapas Nine, it was claimed.

The news came as a Portuguese taxi driver told how he picked up Madeleine McCann with a blonde woman who looked like Kate McCann and three men including one who looked like suspect Robert Murat the night of her disappearance.

Antonio Castela, 67, said he dropped off the missing girl and her English-speaking mystery companions at an Algarve hotel and watched them drive off in a blue jeep.

Source: thisislondon.co.uk





Castela, a taxi driver for the past 17 years, said he picked the group up at at a taxi rank in Monte Gordo an hour's drive east of Praia da Luz where Kate and Gerry McCann were holidaying with their three children on the evening of May 3. He was certain about the timing, he said, as it was approaching the end of his shift.

He claimed Madeleine was wearing a pair of pink pyjamas and sat on the lap of one of the two men.

They asked him to drive them to the Apolo Hotel in the nearby town of Vila Real de Santo Antonio, a 15 minute drive from Portugal's southern border with Spain.

And the only one words one of the men uttered at the end of the two and a half mile journey was "How Much?" in English when it was time to pay, Mr Castela told Jornal do Algarve in an exclusive interview.

He told the paper the jeep the group got into in the hotel car park had a yellow UK-style number plate.

He is thought to have informed police after being told they were not staying at the hotel and seeing news of Madeleine's disappearance on TV.

Mr Castela is said to have picked up the group just after 8pm local time.

Madeleine's parents - official police suspects - first raised the alarm around 10pm although the last public sighting of Madeleine is believed to have been at least four hours earlier.

Source: thisislondon.co.uk

hope4truth said...

Morning All

Happy Easter...

I found the official website late last night and had not looked at it before...

This statement about the fund....

The full objects of the Fund are:
To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;
To procure that Madeleine’s abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice; and
To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine’s family.
If the above objects are fulfilled then the objects of the Foundation shall be to pursue such purposes in similar cases arising in the United Kingdom, Portugal or elsewhere.

Do they think people are stupid? Legal fees media monotoring wages for the Parasites who are directors of the fund (I am not sure if they are all paid but the ones who are should be bloody ashamed)and a mere £250k actually searching for Madeleine!!!!

It is certainly supporting Madeleines family Gerry and Kate are now Directors of a fund that has been set up to find a little girl who if I am being fair has a 50% chance of stranger abduction and a 50% chance of being removed by someone she knows (Including the people who are being supported by a fund???)...

How has this been allowed to happen???

I am still sure the fund will be their downfall it has been abused in a disusting way by paying a fraud investigation team who look more dodgey by the day and insisting all leads get passed to them is wrong...

What is going on with this country when child neglecting parents are protected against having to answer questions that may just save their child and can refuse to do a reconstruction that will only help the police and get a 10k bung to do one which is so pointless as it only shows what they want us to see???

I read in the paper yesterday that a woman has had her son removed and been prosecuted for assult for hitting him twice on the shoulder with a hairbrush (not something I think is right and she should never have done it in a million years) she is sorry she "Snapped" the little boy is in no way frightend of her and wants to go home but Social Services say they have done the best thing for him???

Maybe they have (or maybe the shock of what has happend as he was miss behaving and not doing what he was told and his mother snapping then being removed from her to live with strangers and only allowed to see her for 2 hours a week will be worse abuse than what his Mother did to him)...

Yet the Twins still live in a home with people who statisicaly are more than likely to have harmed or removed thier sister no wonder we have cases such as Baby P social services are in meltdown with people following the rules to the letter and others not following them at all....

There is still a 2 million reward for information about Madeleine why is this not being publicised??? You want scum to talk to your confidential line well money talks to people and for some strange reason it is not being advertised.... Why???

I pity every single person who has accepted blood money in this very sad case I dont know Madeleine but she is just as special as every other child out there and deserves the truth there are many retired profesional people who could and would direct this fund for nothing the satisfaction of doing something for a missing child would be reward enough... Then I suppose strangers are not welcome in case they dispute the paying of leagal fees and media monotoring and may insist on a detective agency with the right credentials...

God Bless Madeleine whatever happend to her whoever did it had no right and she deserves protetion by the authoroties of the United Kingdom...

xxx

viv said...

http://www.the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=30725

http://www.the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=24175

See both these threads on cars hired/search warrant on Opel hired by Garrod friend of Russell O'Brien

mandarinn said...

Good morning Viv and all,thank you for the interesting threath you as usual.
Hope,
I agree and applaud everything you said in your post.
to all the usual posters i wish a nice easter in the compannie of all people they love.
To Di
About a comment you did on the other thread, i should like to know how can the UK authorities verify the accurancy of the reconstitution McCans and comp. did in Algarve.

viv said...

Hiya Hope


I think the lies we are told about the fund are just terrible and I just do not know how Mitchell can keep proclaiming these lies with the Royal "we" that he uses. Earlier on, I was watching again, the interview Jon Gaunt of The Sun does with Clarence, I think it was around last April time. Clarence claims that £50K per month was being paid to the Metodos from the Fund, but when we get the accounts we can see that was just a wicked lie.

Clarence even had to correct himself mid sentence from saying left her alone, to putting out the mantra was not there at the moment she was taken. Of course Gaunt chirped back well they were never there were they. Then we got the rubbish about the checking service, even though there was no such service either by Martin Warner or the TAPAS 9.

He also denied a blockbuster movie was being planned, and agreed they would need to be released from Arguido status first. Well they are released but I am damned certain they are still prime suspects under investigation by British Police, hence no Oprah and no blockbuster movie. The narcissistic schemes of McCann have had to be dramatically scaled down to this pathetic "reconstruction" which clearly is not a reconstruction as two of the major players Kate and Payne were not even there. Even if they had been this is clearly not looking at the impossible claims made by this group in comparison with what other witnesses say was happening. Justice is not played out on the TV!

Mandarinn hello again darling and I you a Great Easter too!

I do not think it is up to the UK authorities to verify this bit of play acting from Gerry McCann and Channel 4, it has no legal basis and does not form part of any official investigation into what happened to Madeleine. There has always been the official police investigations, where the McCanns and their friends are prime suspects and then the unofficial version with ridiculous private investigators who sometimes, do not even seem to exist and Gerry McCann, who has schemes and plans that are entirely divorced from reality.

Having said that, just like the Portuguese Police I am sure British Police will be watching everything Gerry does with great interest. In time I can see it all being played out in the Crown Court before a High Court Judge and Jury.

hope4truth said...

Mandarinn nice to see you have a lovely Easter xxx

Viv

I have long ago come to the very sad conclusion if Madeleine is still "Findable" they are playing a very wicked and evil game with her life...

The money has gone and it was wasted on so many things that will never help to find her and the McCann's their friends and all their blinkered supporters have not helped the investigation at all...

The fund will be their second downfall the first was beliveing Portugal to be so backward that the police would belive them and doff their caps every time they said something. I am afraid they may have done their research on the Spanish Character of Manwell in Faulty Towers as your typical swarthey foreigner and tried to put the PJ in the same catagory...

Sadly for them GA is a hell of a lot more inteligent than Gerry could ever hope to be and the firm evidence may not be there but it has not put GA off from speaking out about the LIE or worried him in the slightest about publishing a book not a care of being sued either...

xxx

hope4truth said...

I have just watched the link to What Lies Beneath the Truth a documentry GA is in...

Joana Morais has provided the link on the 3As

http://www.the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=30726

Link Below for trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73nWRR8R7dM

So very sad so very evil and if anyone who knew Madeleine is keeping quiet for any reason I hope they never get a good nights sleep again...

viv said...

Wow, Goncalo's reconstructions promises to be an absolute bombshell, cannot wait:


http://212.55.142.230/workmedia/vcm/maddie.html

viv said...

Hiya Hope

I remain pretty clear that Maddie was being sexually abused, I hope they did not also kill her, I just have this feeling Gerry does know where this little angel is.

With Goncalo's video as well, let us hope our Police will push this forwards but I still think they are waiting for Gerry to slip up.

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

It is a sad and sick world we live in there are two other children who are at risk just by being told to play "Lets hunt the monster who took maddie" is very disturbing...

I know the woman who struck her son with a hairbrush was wrong to do so she knows she was wrong to do so and would do anything to get her child back if you compare her to a couple who have "Lost" a child and are refusing to help in any way with the Police it seems very wrong...

Just by neglecting the children they broke the law and they have been alowed to empty the fund spending money on everything apart from actually searching???

What a world...

GAs video is very intresting I hope we get to see the whole thing and to be fair it should be screened on C4 before or after the McCann's reconstruction just so everyone can see both sides!!!!!!!!!!!

xxxx

mandarinn said...

Thak you Viv and Hope for your wishes. I hope the wtather in your place allows you to enjoy to seat in your lovely "fardens":).Hope, are your bunnies collaborating in easter festvities? XXXXXX

mandarinn said...

I forgot to inform, GA documentary is not presented here, in TVI, as a reconstrution but as the way the investigator GA thinks happened, based of course in facts he collected and interpreted.

XXXXXX

viv said...

Hiya HOpe

I think it is very wrong to lose your temper and strike a child in that way but no way do I think she should lose her child for that reason, it is way over the top.


It just cannot be compared with what Kate and Gerry McCann have done and they still have the twins. The lets play hunting the monster who took Maddie game is absolutely horrifying. Gerry says it is very "refreshing" the way he gets the twins to mention Madeleine every day, what so he can carry on living a lie? It is just not natural or healthy for them to still be making Madeleine a part of their lives, if they know where Maddie is and she is still alive they should not have any of those children and if she is dead that is just as truly wicked to those twins.

HI Mandarinn, yes I understand Goncalo can only say what he thinks happened from the evidence that he has, but still expect it to be far more informative than anything we will hear from Gerry McCann. He says he is also to present new evidence that we have not previously heard so that should be very interesting.

mandarinn said...

Yes Viv , i think it will be more informative, butnever pretened to replace the reconstituition asked for PJ as CM pretend their movie do...

viv said...

Hi Mandarinn

What the PJ wanted to do was further investigate the main suspects in this case, the TAPAS 9, that was the whole point of the reconstruction they proposed and why neither Rebelo or Stuart Prior could reassure them because quite obviously they would have been further incriminating themselves had they gone. The fact they refused to only serves to confirm their guilt beyond any reasonable shadow of doubt.

At the time Gerry was talking about some silly telly play using actors and he tells them what to do, an utter farce!

bath theory said...

Just a reminder

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488961/Tapas-Nine-The-14-key-questions-British-detectives-want-answered.html

viv said...

Hi BT I think it is right to point out these questions are what the Daily Mail have thought up, but even so reproduce them because they are good ones:

Question 1

Why did Kate scream "They've taken her?" when she discovered Madeleine had gone? Did she know her daughter was being stalked? If so, how?
Question 2

How is it possible DNA traces belonging to Madeleine were found in the McCanns' hired Renault Scenic more than four weeks after she disappeared?
Question 3

Why did one of the sniffer dogs specialising in the detection of bodies go directly to the hire car?
Question 4

Why did another dog appear to detect something suspicious about Madeleine's Cuddle Cat?
Question 5

Exactly who was in the tapas bar and who went to visit the children who were asleep? At what times?
Question 6

Why have there been differing reports of the McCanns' movements on the evening Madeleine disappeared?
Question 7

Why did Kate McCann, who is Catholic, mark a passage in the Bible which talks about the death of a child?
Question 8

What did the McCanns do in the four hours before the alarm was raised?
Question 9

What did Kate do before sitting down to dinner with the group of friends?

Madeleine: Missing since May 3
Question 10

How many times in the four hours prior to the discovery that Madeleine was missing did the McCanns go to see their children?
Question 11

Why did Matthew Oldfield not go into the McCanns' apartment to check on their children, choosing instead to simply listen at the door?
Question 12

Why did Russell O'Brien leave the restaurant for half an hour, returning at the same time Kate was screaming that Madeleine had been kidnapped?
Question 13

Why did Mr O'Brien's partner Jane Tanner, who arrived late at the meal, not see Gerry standing at the entrance to the holiday complex talking with a friend?
Question 14

Why do the McCanns feel persecuted by the authorities?

viv said...

I see the Express have taken exact comments from other reports we have seen but right at the start of this, just gone one step further by stating that apparently, devastated Gerry wants the process re-opened. What about his PIs! and why would it take him 9 months to reach such a momentous decision. I am not sure Gerry even said this but if he did, cannot he not see how other people will look at this. What normal parent would wait until their child had been missing for two whole years and then start OK I want to co-operate! Would you not think, in a very depressed way after two whole years, it is just a bit late. There is this complete lack of urgency that can only confirm one of two things and hence the smirk on his face on Madeleine's birthday.

One he knows where she is and could probably recover her whenever it suited him

Two, he knows she is dead and has been since 3 May and just could not care less.

The option of a parent wanting to just start now after two years to genuinely work with the police, and he is not! is just not an option.

No empathy, no shame, abnormal.

viv said...

Sunday April 12,2009
By James Murray

DEVASTATED Gerry McCann wants police to reopen their investigation into the disappearance of his kidnapped daughter Madeleine.

The heart specialist said: “At the minute there is no law enforcement agency actively looking for Madeleine – looking at the evidence, saying: ‘Where are the gaps and what more can we do?’ That’s what we need.”

Investigators working for Gerry and his wife Kate have spent months poring over the shelved Portuguese police files on the two-year-old case.

They are also working on a Channel 4 documentary about the kidnapping, which will include a reconstruction of the night Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007, with actors playing the McCanns and their seven friends.

Speaking in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz after working as a consultant for the programme, Gerry, 40, played down any criticism of the Portuguese police.

He said: “They worked extremely hard and there were many different pressures. If you look back there were probably mistakes on all sides.”

He was not offended when some locals gave him a cool reception on his return to the resort last weekend.

“I can understand that,” he said. “They don’t want the media intrusion and the negative association with Madeleine’s abduction.

“I didn’t feel any evil around Praia da Luz. What happened here could have happened anywhere.

“I’m sorry for any harm caused and I want to thank the local population for their support and tolerance.

“Kate and I haven’t come back due to the media exposure and the controversy such a visit would pose.

“I hope people understand why we are doing what we’ve done.


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/946 ... for-Maddie

viv said...

Surely Levy is not suggesting Amaral was a McCann mole, is he??

The many “casualties” of the Maddie case

imagem111bThe investigation into Maddie’s disappearance, apart from the enormous worldwide media exposure, was marked by a relevant number of casualties among the diplomats and policemen who participated or touched this sensitive case.

In Portugal, after the exit of Gonçalo Amaral, who was removed from the Maddie case investigation by request from the British authorities, the Polícia Judiciária (PJ) also lost then national director, Alípio Ribeiro, as well as several other inspector.

Guilhermino Encarnação, a joint national director, responsible for the Directory of Faro at the moment when Madeleine McCann disappeared, may be the next confirmed casualty in this case. The man who became known in the investigation for having prevented Gonçalo Amaral from carrying out the interrogation of Kate McCann at a moment when she was, according to several inspectors who were present on location, “ready to talk”, has been on long-term leave due to health issues and is not returning to active anymore.

Despite the former director’s health issues, an internal source at the PJ in the Algarve advances that Guilhermino Encarnação only went on leave after the statements from a Spanish former private detective, who revealed the existence of a “mole” inside the PJ, who allegedly, and for months, provided information to Método 3, the agency that worked for the McCanns.

According to the statements from the former Método 3 operating officer, which were further confirmed by a PJ source, the “mole” wasn’t the PJ director in Faro, but rather a person who was close to him and under his protection.

On the British side, some diplomats and policemen also fell, including the ambassador and the consul in Portugal, respectively John Buck and Bill Henderson.

Ambassador John Buck was replaced on the 10th of September 2007, the day following the constitution of Kate and Gerry McCann as arguidos. One month earlier, in August of the same year, the consul in the Algarve, Bill Henderson, had resigned, fully abandoning the diplomatic career. His substitute, Celia Edwards, would not stay in Portugal for a long time, either.

The Foreign Office also lost Sheree Dodd and Clarence Mitchell, the former becoming the head of communications for the English parliament, and the latter, becoming the McCann couple’s official spokesman, while maintaining, for some time, a “privileged relationship” with the British government.

Duarte Levy

Wizard said...

Good Morning all and a Happy Easter,

I see we are having typical bank holiday weather – rain!

I’ve just been reading about the new Amaral’s documentary on the case to be aired on Portugal’s TV1 shortly. It now becomes clear why Gerry made a trip to his Lisbon lawyers a few months back.

It is reported that the Mc’s made several attempts to have access to the documentary prior to its TV broadcast. A source close to the couple told 24h. “They were even thinking about buying the rights to the programme to prevent it being transmitted in Britain.”

No wonder a fresh appeal for money for the fund is being hawked about. The DVD of the documentary “What Lies Beneath the Truth” was for sale on Youtube - demand was such it is now sold out. It would be interesting to see if it is bought by a British TV channel. I suspect because of our libel laws the documentary will not be shown here as it is likely to constitute defamation.

Wizard said...

The Express article tell us that Gerry wants the case reopened – I know the pantomime season is over but I just can’t resist – Oh no he doesn’t.

This statement is made in the confidence that the Portuguese police say it will not be opened unless fresh evidence comes to light.

Gerry says. “What happened here could have happened anywhere.”

Well there is a truth imbedded in the lies. It’s not the location of the crime that is a fault it is the presence of Gerry et al at the location.

Gerry continues. “I hope people understand why we are doing what we’ve done.”

Well I am sure people who have been following this case for the last 2 years know exactly why they felt there was a need to do what they did. To avoid 15 years imo.

bath theory said...

Spot on Wizard or as Kate McCann herself may well say... whoosh , clunk, as easy as that. I think they will get more than 15 yrs when it goes to court.

As someone who works daily with young children these parents are the lowest of the low in my humble opinion. Spineless and shameless. They only inspire those who are up to similar antics with their children.

What message does that send to our society ? It encourages those who operate at the edges and who hide behind darkness.

bath theory said...

Pure theatre

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rQazjM-bCo

bath theory said...

Just one two-part question for us to ponder on today if I may be permitted to ask it?

Did the dogs find anything in the bathroom? Is this evidence that has been held back?

because my memory is the dogs were not shown on the video near the bathroom or is that just me missing that footage.

Wizard said...

The Portuguese documentary 'Maddie' on TV1 I think can be viewed live on the following link.

http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/directo.html

It is being shown tomorrow 13.04.09at 21.25 to 22.15 the trailer looks good – not to be missed.

Wizard said...

Hi BT,

No the dogs did not find anything in the bathroom but from the point of view of your theory if something happened in the bathroom the body would have been moved. Eddie (trained to alert to a human corpse) as you know would only pick up the scent of a corpse 2 hours after death. Therefore no odour would be found in the bathroom if moved shortly after death. The blood dog Keela did not alert to anything in the bathroom either.

Wizard said...

A interesting picture at Easter link

Di said...

Hi Everyone

I am not sure what to make of this!

Posted by D Levy.



Police officers under investigation in Maddie case

An investigation targeting several British police inspectors has been opened after a collaborator close to the McCann’s stated that several internal police documents – considered as confidential – were sent from Portugal to a British journalist.
The documents in question, which officially were not known to the Portuguese authorities, all concerning the Madeleine McCann case, were “marked” which made it possible to determine their origin in the team that had accompanied the investigations into the claimed kidnapping, without however identifying the specific source of the leak.
According to the journalist, he supposedly received the documents without having asked for them, which is the reason why he supposedly delivered a copy to a collaborator of the McCann couple “in order to determine their authenticity”.
According to a police source, the investigators already knew that the documents were in the hands of some foreign journalists, but it is only now, thanks to the contribution of the journalist and his spontaneous “source”, that the investigation could start, the file being entrusted to “a national security authority”.
It’s since the beginning of the Maddie case that a large number of documents have been released from the British police files, part of which were published in full or in part in the media, as well as on the internet, where some did not hesitate to share some documents with complete strangers, allowing in this way certain parts of the file to end up in the hands of the people linked to the lawsuit.

More details available for subscription members.

bath theory said...

Thanks for the link Wizard about the programme. Will watch it later tonight.

Hi Di - have u noticed how Arsenal are chugging along nicely now?

viv said...

Hiya all

Well I have a nasty throat infection for Easter. I tried to ignore it yesterday went to the Farden Centre and got some plants to make another spring hanging basket and top the rest of the pots up. Result I have not long got up, feel absolutely lousy! So not on usual form and it is good to read some comments here when I come to look see what is going on!

Wiz, that is very amusing and has cheered me to think the Mcs tried to buy Amaral's doc to try and stop it being aired! I hope that is true. I think it is always very limited what will be aired in UK not just from the point of view of libel but because our own police would be telling the press in no uncertain terms they cannot print details from the investigation. Adam Tudor mentioned this before the Select Cmt saying the police asked the press to go easy in Oct 07. That is when I believe the enquiry was taking a new, and what our police hoped would be entirely confidential turn, looking at sexual abuse within this case as providing the possible solution as to what happened to Madeleine. Something I notice of late, Amaral is himself now referring to but he never did before. He just had many people believing this was no more that some "accidental" killing which I have never believed. This crime was planned,I have no doubt about that.

Di said...

Hi BT

Chugging is the right word with the leaders 10 points in front ;o)

I hope you are enjoying your Easter break, with good weather.

Wizard said...

BT - the programme is on tomorrow not tonight.

viv said...

BT, my recollection is we were shown footage of the dogs in the bathroom and we also have full details on the DVD of all the places where they alerted. I think it was a brief sojourn i the bathroom, they were not interested. In fact I remember one of them being more interested near to the sink/washing m/c in the kitchen which was probably the seat of all clean ups!

Wizard said...

Hi Di,

Just read your post its difficult to know the significance of this.

Di said...

Hi Viv

So sorry to read you have a throat infection, hubby also, get well soon. Hot toddy seems to be working for other half.

viv said...

Di, at present I do not really understand that Levy report other than I have had the feeling for quite a while I just do not trust him somehow.

It will be interesting to see how this develops but could link to my feeling that UK will be extremely miffed about how much of the investigation is in the public domain.

Di said...

Hi Wizard

I don't understand the significance either, perhaps Viv can through some light on it for us.

viv said...

Hiya Di

I do not have any brandy or anything but have been having lots of different healthy drinks which does help and some aspirin to bring temp down and stop me feeling so rough.

Thanksxx

Wizard said...

Hi viv,

Sorry to hear you are under the weather I hope Big L’s Easter post will cheer you up.

LEICESTER MERCURY EASTER EDITION

Today was another sad day for the parents of mMaddie McCann, the Madonna of Rothley and her husband saint Gerald who took mass at their local church today. as the Procession from their Rothley towers home reached the church the Madonna of Rothley looked relaxed and happy while her husband saint Gerald smiled while offering the crowds not Communion but a bucket for a holy collection. one small child in the crowd shouted out " I can’t see any new clothes" but was pulled up sharply by cardinal Mitchell who stated that the comment was ludicrous and unhelpful to which the child’s mother felt obliged to put her house keeping money for the week into the bucket and grabbed the child and backed away from the saintly duo head bowed.
The service went well stated saint Gerald alluding to the fact that his sermon was in fact a little bit better than the fisherman’s one in Rome.
on leaving the church walking on the rose petals the crowd had thrown in front of them, an incident occurred whilst the Madonna of Rothley was posing for a vanity fair photo looking up to the sky profoundly, as an ice cream van came screeching round the corner playing the baha men’s who let the dogs out.

Di said...

Hi Viv

Through meant throw obviously, thanks for being open. The 24 pics remain in my very much in my mind mind! Nothing became of them.

Di said...

I think I have gremlins!

viv said...

If Gerry is so worried about Amaral's docu it cannot be because of the death in apt theory because that has already been well and truly aired. Meyer said that when he offered to stop the British press, Gerry said he did not want them stopped.!

So what is it that Amaral is going on about now, that he has never mentioned before, DAvid Payne. Gerry's former best mate, I think that is what he is terrified of, the truth coming out!

Wizard said...

A couple of Lemsips should clear them up Di.

Di said...

Wizard

Lol

viv said...

Oh Wow Wiz, thanks for the latest fantastic offering from BigL. I did not dare laugh out loud that would hurt but it definitely did cheer me up:-))) Esp the punchline, who let the dogs out after that fantastic write up he gave them!

Let us hope BigL never stops writing on this case!

viv said...

Actually Wiz I do have some lemsips never thought of that, just go get myself one.

Luke is never here when I need him!

Di said...

Agree Viv

Big L has a way with words.

Wizard said...

Viv,

Amaral's documentary is half in Portuguese and half in English. The fear must be it could be bought by a British TV network or at least it can be viewed on the internet by the British. Rather throws a spanner in the works of their production next month.

It could have the effect of giving a balanced argument i.e. presenting both sides of what allegedly happened. Something the Rothley saints would not want – one side of the story and their side only!

Di said...

Viv

A couple of lemsips, don't you be overdosing!

viv said...

Wiz, I think Amaral is one angry and hurt man, he knows the McCanns are responsible for what happened to Madeleine and the attacks against him have been horrific. I always think it is best to avoid making a serious enemy in life for fear of what they may ultimately be able to do to you. This is what the McCanns have done with Amaral. That in itself is extraordinary behaviour for a couple who claim to just want to find their daughter. Being so anti police and even stirring up racial hatred put them much more in the criminal bracket than the sad parental victims.

Goncalo has held things back but now I think he is severely punishing them. No one can say they did not ask for it!

viv said...

Lol Di, it is almost like you caught me red handed. When I looked in the drawer their were also benylin cold and flu capsules so I took one of those as well. If I sound increasingly higher and barmier, you will know why:-)))Shucks still cannot find any brandy, though!

xx

Di said...

Wizard

I agree, also GA has always said there would be a follow up to his first book with more revelations, what could these be? I am sure T9 are very worried.

The fact, that it has now been stated, Gerry went to Portugal purely to try to buy the rights of the GA's Docu speaks volumes imo,T9are obviously very worried about what is going to come out in this televised documentary.

K & G you should be worried, you started this circus you reap what you sow.

Di said...

Viv

LOL

Wizard said...

Getting on the wrong side of
Amaral was clearly like shooting themselves in the foot. Did they really think he would just sit back and do nothing? Some say revenge is best served cold – so 2 years later his revenge should be good.

It will be interesting to see the documentary tomorrow night.

viv said...

I have just had another look at that Levy report and it just does not make any sense to me.

He claims that British officers are being investigated for leaking confidential information. We know there is one officer who clearly got himself into trouble for being far too friendly with
Robert Murat when he was simply there on holiday, and not involved in the investigation.

I do not believe Levy would find out what British Police were doing, other than what he could find out directly from Mitchell and the McCanns. It does seem to coincide with a report he was following them for another day in the life of type of thing, which is pretty boring and we have seen more than enough of! I thought Gerry realised that by removing all of his blogging now, although some of that blogging particularly the earlier stuff that was removed in the first tranche contained some pretty incriminating comments from him. He thinks he is so clever he can drop joking hints. It is not funny Gerry and you are not clever.

viv said...

Wiz I see in Amaral that type of personality, lovely really and big hearted and helpful. Unless of course you seriously cross him. A bit like me with my ex employers really, I wiped the floor with them!

Wizard said...

Di,

The Mc’s circus you mention – when I sit back and think of their antics over the past couple of years it’s no wonder this case never goes away. When justice is served, and I believe it will be, this case will go down in the history books as one of the greatest charades in criminal history.

Di said...

What about the mole that was mentioned in the PJ, could that have anything to do with this?

Di said...

Wizard

I hope justice is done for Madeleines sake, but how I pity the twins and what they will have to endure for the rest of their lives. Not a happy thought, which is why I cannot understand why K & G and their family are prolonging this. Everyone suffers in the end.

Off to watch tv.

viv said...

Wiz, I continue to believe that this will be an extremely difficult case for the police to bring on, because of the major piece of evidence dear little Maddie just disappearing and leaving virtually no trace or trail that can be believed in with any certainty.

But, Gerry McCann has a massive ego and that has made him make mistakes which have yielded more than enough damning evidence for the police to know what happened. He likes to play little games with people which was very foolish. This is exactly the sort of very serious case where the police in UK will throw massive resources at it to get a result and we know that they have. Five separate police areas working on the case, CEOP, SOCA, The Attorney General herself also involved. The McCanns did reap a whirlwind and I am convinced that we with our partners in other European States will leave no stone unturned until we can bring this case to trial,but it will be massive and it will certainly go down in history for being such a notorious case. I have never known any criminal offender play the games with the media that Gerry McCann has sought to do, in some perverse attempt to defend himself by complex series of plots, schemes, obfuscation and misinformation.

He is the kind of man that senior detectives dream of being able to crack and they will!

viv said...

Di, I am very concerned about the so called mole because the next person down from the boss who he could have been protecting and knew what he was doing could well be Goncalo Amaral. I just hope that is not the truth.


Clearly the boss is so embarrassed his sick leave became permanent and he is never going back to work. Goncalo also left. I know what it looks like but want to be wrong about that!

viv said...

I do not think the reports are wrong that UK asked for Goncalo to be removed and we must have had good reason for that. The leaks for example. In some perverse way I have had the feeling for a long time, Gerry actually likes to death in apt theory to be played out because it diverts, but I may well be wrong. I am not wrong about what Mr Meyer said though!

Wizard said...

I think the McCanns have been advised badly and have really over cooked it. I’m hoping they will be hoist with their own petard.

You’re right anyone who cracks this case will be catapulted to the top of their profession – a tantalising carrot to be dangled in front of any career minded professional.

viv said...

Sir Stuart Prior, MBE LOL

But seriously I am sure he is quite determined..

Wizard said...

I hear that Brian Kennedy has deserted the ship – do we know if this is true?

viv said...

so leaks from uk anyone rember the mccans wanting leistershirepolice to show there files but they got told to umm bugger off :D



A very much to the point comment on 3 As. Documents in UK can have security markings, confidential, restricted, secret, top secret etc. I do not know whether that is what is meant but I do not think the police routinely use these markings because all their files are confidential and police officers know they commit a criminal offences under the Official Secrets Act if they open their mouths which does tend to help to make sure they do not.

Of course when we have really top coppers just holding a top secret document for the press to photograph, what a numpty!

viv said...

Wiz, the Kennedy debacle that is an interesting one. I do not think we have any reports positively confirming that but it seems things changed around last October/ November. As we know Gerry /Kate them became directors themselves. For a long period of time, I would say around a year, the begging bowls were put away and there were no overt requests for money in the media at all. Perhaps there was no need to with Kennedy controlling the purse strings and having such a big purse. Remember he sacked Red Defence and the other outfit of Mr Halligen's whose name just escapes me. The press release on the McCanns website supporting that outfit has now been removed. I think we are right when we say these private detective firms will have an awful lot to do with the undoing of the McCanns and the Spanish Police are also actively working with us. The one thing that is odd, Mr Smethurst remains on the board of directors. But likely Gerry just said oh please let him stay because imagine the talk if he goes, it was bad enough last time we lost some directors!

Wizard said...

The Top Cop caught holding the secret dossier is an example of human frailty. You just wouldn’t think anyone in his position and with his experience would do this – but he did. Likewise if Motor Mouth continues spouting he will slip up - even the most Machiavellian manipulators do. Mandy is an example of this – twice!

Off to watch Lewis. BBL

viv said...

This is better than my memory, so things started to go wrong in August which coincides very nicely with Brian Kennedy presumably having a look at those files!


Madeleine detectives’ axing denied
30/8/2008

Kate and Gerry McCann, parents of missing toddler Madeleine McCann have denied they have decided to axe private investigators Oakley International following allegations the company has drained the McCann’s fund of nearly half a million pounds.

Reports on Sunday claimed they were supported in doing so by Madeleine Fund underwriter Brian Kennedy, a self-made millionaire, who was also said to be dissatisfied with the investigators’ work.

It was said he considered their approximate £100,000-per-month fee “excessive” for the results that were being obtained.

This has since been refuted.

A written entry on the official ‘Find Madeleine’ website said, “In the light of articles in some UK Sunday newspapers this weekend, we feel it is appropriate to comment briefly on our relationship with the investigation company Oakley International.

“We appointed them several months ago to investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. We continue to work with them to this end. The working relationship is managed by Brian Kennedy, who also confirms the relationship with Oakley International continues to be good and that it remains entirely focused on the search for Madeleine”.

Oakley International, which is made up of ex-British special forces officers and has FBI contacts, won the contract over the London-based Red Defence International (RDI), though one of the employees, 47-year-old communications expert known as Mr. Halligen, is listed as being involved with both companies.

Weekend reports in the UK claim Halligen is given as the ‘contact name’ for Oakley International Group, a company registered in Washington DC as the manufacturer of search and navigation equipment, and is also, reportedly, a director of RDI.

The company says it has annual sales of around €45,000 and only one employee, which appears to be Mr Halligen.

Initial reports alleged that the day after a crisis meeting last week with the Madeleine Fund administrators, Mr Halligen resigned as a director of RDI.

Previously the McCann Fund had employed a Spanish detective agency called Metodo 3, who were also axed after claims they would ‘find Madeleine before Christmas’ failed.

A McCann spokesperson said yesterday, “Kate and Gerry, the fund and their backers have always sought to employ the very best people and resources in the ongoing search for Madeleine”.

A search that is, according to the McCanns, still continuing.

viv said...

Wiz when I was still a probation officer, security was drummed into us. You were discouraged from ever taking any files in your car but if this was unavoidable they had to be in a locked case in a locked boot of your car and if you breached those rules could be disciplined. I just found his behaviour in not even having a case or putting the document inside the other folders he had quite unbelievable!

viv said...

There has even been a McCann mole arrested from a Spanish newspaper and Kate had no problem talking about Maddie crying on TV. I have no doubt those statements (which were not the same as those on the official PJ file) were leaked in Spain, all arranged by the trusty McCann manipulators Metodo 3.

It was obviously part of the perverse campaign of the McCanns to emphasise their negligence in the care of their children, so this phantom abductor could sneak and just take Madeleine. Of course when Kate rushed off to raise the alarm she was not the least bit concerned about him striking again, how maternal of her!

Portuguese police accuse McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell of 'lying through his teeth'

By VANESSA ALLEN

Last updated at 00:50 16 April 2008

* Comments (56)
* Add to My Stories

Madeleine: Police say they are taking 'significant' steps to find her

Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have branded her parents' spokesman "a manipulative liar".

The head of the Portuguese police federation, Carlos Anjos, accused Clarence Mitchell of engineering a fight with officers to sabotage a reconstruction of the disappearance.

Police statements made by Kate and Gerry McCann were leaked to the media last week as they travelled to Brussels to promote a campaign for a child alert system.

The statements revealed Maddie was left crying the night before she vanished on May 3.

At the time, Mr Mitchell accused police of masterminding the leak to overshadow the visit.

But Mr Anjos told the respected Portuguese newspaper Jornal de Noticias: 'He is a liar and a Machiavellian.

"Mr Mitchell wants to discredit the Policia Judiciaria and invent excuses so the McCanns do not come to Portugal to participate in the reconstruction of the night she disappeared.

"He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth. Finally we know what side truth is on."

Scroll down for more ...

Spokesman: Clarence Mitchell makes a statement on behalf of Kate and Gerry McCann last year

A second Portuguese newspaper, Diario de Noticias, claimed police believed Mr Mitchell had leaked the police statements to Spanish television journalist Nacho Abad.

Mr Mitchell said yesterday: "It is categorically untrue and utterly ridiculous to suggest that I in any way leaked documents to embarrass Kate and Gerry.

"Why on earth would I? I will not stoop to answer Mr Anjos's wild allegations. All we have ever wanted is for someone to find Madeleine, without this kind of distraction."

He said the McCanns, from Rothley, Leicestershire, were considering the request to take part in a police reconstruction.

Scroll down for more ...

Hunt for Maddie: Portuguese police search the area around Priai da Luz where Madeleine disappeaered. Tensions between the police and the McCann family have grown since Kate and Gerry became formal suspects in the case

It is not the first time that Mr Anjos has caused controversy in the 11-month investigation.

He said that police have "bigger problems" than finding Madeleine, accused her parents of using "diversionary tactics" and hindering the investigation, and said Mr McCann, 39, was "indescribably negligent".

Meanwhile the journalist, Mr Abad, said the statements did not come from Mr Mitchell or the McCanns. He refused to reveal his source, however.

viv said...

Straight out on the offensive:


EMAILS relating to the hunt for missing Madeleine McCann are to remain secret over fears they could offend the Portuguese authorities.

A request under the Freedom of Information Act asked for disclosure of emails and a letter sent between the British ambassador and Portuguese police in the weeks after Maddie vanished.

The Foreign Office initially released some information, but the rest was held back under a special exemption to protect international relations.

The anonymous applicant for more information appealed, arguing it was in the public interest.

But the Information Commissioner refused, saying disclosure could offend Portuguese authorities, harm the hunt for Maddie and cause “substantial” damage to international relations.

It is believed the request was rejected because some letters are critical of the investigation by Portuguese cops.

Maddie’s parents Gerry and Kate, of Rothley, Leics, face a renewed attack tonight from a shamed ex-cop who was kicked off the case.

Goncalo Amaral will claim in a TV documentary that Maddie, then three, died in the family’s apartment in Praia da Luz during their Algarve holiday in 2007.


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... 374069.ece

viv said...

From Joana, a rather predictable headline from Goncalo, but written by Levy, the one who apparently has been hanging around Kate and Gerry. Sometimes I just say to myself what the heck is going on and who can you trust!

the text of 24 horas is bellow

“Maddie died in Praia da Luz on the night of the disappearance”

McCann case: “what lies beneath the truth”

TVI, the television station in Queluz, is going to broadcast tomorrow, Monday, right after the evening news, the documentary that is dedicated to the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, which was produced in our country by Valentim de Carvalho Filmes, based on the book “Maddie: The truth of the lie”, which was written by former Polícia Judiciária coordinator, Gonçalo Amaral.

For the first time after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, on the 3rd of May 2007, a documentary will show on television the reconstitution of what, according to the PJ senior official, really happened that night in apartment 5A of the Ocean Club. During 50 minutes of images, spoken in Portuguese and English – with subtitles – this documentary strengthens the version that Madeleine died on the night that Kate and Gerry McCann said their daughter was abducted.

In this documentary, which was directed by Carlos Coelho da Silva and produced by Manuel S. Fonseca, the former head of the investigation explains which are the inconsistencies in the testimonies that were given by the McCann couple and their seven friends, but also demonstrates, with unique documents, the results of the forensics tests that were carried out in Portugal and in England.

The former head of the PJ in Portimão further explains how the investigation evolved and the brutal manner in which it was interrupted after the British authorities intervened, namely diplomats in Lisbon and two prime ministers, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.
“There was a political and rushed archiving [of the process]”, Gonçalo Amaral states during the documentary, adding that “there are people who are hiding the truth, but sooner or later, the varnish will crack and revelations will appear”.

An important member of the team that is behind this documentary, Nuno Ramos de Almeida has read the process, carried out numerous interviews and wrote a script that is already prompting reactions in England.

English documentary is reaction to Amaral’s version

It was after hearing that the documentary which is based on the book “Maddie: The Truth of the Lie”, by Gonçalo Amaral, would be broadcast on Portuguese television, that the McCanns realised the urgency in showing their version of the story to the public. The information was now confirmed by a source that is close to the couple, that further added that “the campaign that was launched in the Algarve was merely a manner of preparing and justifying the documentary that they want to show as quickly as possible to the English public.”

The same source, in a statement to 24horas, further confirmed that during the last few months “several attempts were made for the couple to have access to the Portuguese documentary even before it was shown on television”, which also explains the secrecy that surrounds its contents.

“They even considered the possibility of buying the documentary’s rights for England, thus preventing it from being broadcast in the country”, the source close to the couple concluded.

In Portugal, 24horas was able to establish that all the participants in the documentary that was produced by Valentim de Carvalho have been forbidden by contract to reveal any details or officially answering any questions before its broadcast.

While the documentary with Gonçalo Amaral’s version is going to be the first one to be broadcast in Portugal, even before the second anniversary of Maddie’s disappearance, the McCanns’ version has already secured a wider diffusion throughout Europe: Channel 4 is going to broadcast the documentary that was recently filmed in Praia da Luz, and several contracts have been negotiated already. Including for Portugal, where it will be broadcast by SIC.

Duarte Levy in 24horas

PS – Due to my work as an investigative journalist, I have been summoned to participate in this documentary as well, where I make a brief appearance.

viv said...

Apart from Levy straddling both camps, I just have to ask myself what would bother Kate and Gerry so much about Amaral just repeating in a documentary what he has already written in a book and what featured in the British Press nonstop through 2007. Indeed what Mr Meyer of the PCC offered to Gerry McCann to put a stop to but Gerry said he wished it to continue and having let it continue right through into about April 2008 right on the 12 months deadline for a libel action cashed with with a massive half a million pounds libel award. Of course if the PCC had just shut the press up those death theories would have disappeared from our press much sooner and Gerry wouldnot have gotten any cash.

Gerry has said to Ricardo Paiva who was the lead investigator in Portugal that he is "certain" they will not find any evidence of Madeleine's death. It has to be said, he is right about that.

I just feel this is just one big cover up for what really happened to little Madeleine and I know lots of people disagree with me but I do not really care because that is consistent with everything I can see. I see a lot of people with Paypal accounts and a lot of people otherwise making money out of little Madeleine, and I do not trust any of them.

I see people saying the Portuguese and British governments put a stop to justice. But I see Ricardo Paiva telling Goncalo Amaral that came directly from the mouth of Kate McCann and so it has gone on from there.

See below:

viv said...

SEE BELOW WHERE IN SEPTEMBER 2007 KATE MCCANN HERSELF STARTS THIS TALK ABOUT GOVERNMENTS WANTING TO STOP POLICE INVESTIGATIONS, SHE MUST BE VERY PLEASED SO MANY DUTIFULLY CARRY THAT TRADITION ON FOR HER
"Portuguese police are suffering pressure from the Government to end the investigation immediately".

AND HOW SHE CLAIMS THE BRITISH POLICE GAVE HER A MANUAL ALL ABOUT procedures for KIDNAPPING, SEXUAL ABUSE AND HOMICIDE..she may well have the appropriate offences listed but she is again suggesting British Police are on her side. Why would they be, and why would the McCann act like they have, if they were?





Police Files


To: Coordinator of Criminal Investigation, Lic. Gonçalo Amaral

From: Ricardo Paiva, Inspector

Subject: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann
____________________________________________________


[summary]


- As the intermediary between Kate and Gerry McCann and the Police, Inspector Ricardo Paiva made several personal contacts with them.


- In that context he witnessed several "strange" behaviours of the couple that, according to his report, grew increasingly more negative in their reactions towards the activities of the police investigation, in particular after the use of British cadaver dogs.


- On several occasions the McCann couple said that the attention of the Police should remain focused on the hypothesis of abduction, that in their opinion that was the only scenario that had occurred. Also the Police shouldn't forget to keep investigating the suspect Robert Murat.


- Ricardo Paiva considered very strange that, on several occasions, more than 3 months after the disappearance of Madeleine, Kate McCann requested that the Police performed analysis to the blood, hair and nails of the twin siblings of Madeleine. According to her, she had remembered that on the day of the disappearance of Madeleine, despite all the noise and confusion made by the authorities and other persons that were looking for Madeleine in the apartment 5A of the Ocean Club, the twins never woke up, having been transported to another apartment. She now assumed that they were under the influence of any sedative, that an abductor could have administered to the 3 children in order to abduct Madeleine. She said that according to what she read in a criminal investigation manual that the British police provided for them, that was the usual procedure in cases of kidnapping, sexual abuse and homicide.

- "Today" (03/09/07), when Ricardo Paiva went to their residence to notify them to be present at the police headquarters to make a deposition, accompanied by their lawyer, if they wished, Kate McCann immediately reacted negatively, making comments like "what will my parents think" and "what will the press say when they find out" and that the "Portuguese police are suffering pressure from the Government to end the investigation immediately".

- Gerald McCann on the other hand, insisted constantly on delivering to Ricardo Paiva, letters and e-mails that he received and selected, most of them from psychics and mediums, and that in general held no credible information about the whereabouts of Madeleine and of her alleged abductor.

- More recently, even before Kate McCann was questioned, in a phone contact between Gerry Mccann and Ricardo Paiva, when referring to the investigation, Gerry stated that he was certain that the Police didn't have any proof that might incriminate them on the death of Madeleine McCann, and added that the police were wasting their time directing the investigation toward the parents.


*

bath theory said...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/may/05/world.sandralaville

Useful I think to refresh the first few reports in newspapers every now and again and compare it to now.

Wizard said...

Good Morning All,

Viv, I was just exploring your comment.

“I just have to ask myself what would bother Kate and Gerry so much about Amaral just repeating in a documentary what he has already written in a book and what featured in the British Press nonstop through 2007.”

Well I think there are a number of things that would bother them about this documentary.

Amaral is saying the documentary includes new facts that have not been heard before. This would worry the McCanns as it is difficult to know how incriminating these facts are or even if this statement is true or not.

Since May 2007 the McCanns have remorselessly pushed their mantra of an abduction. Their original scenario has been polished, tweaked and sold to anyone who would listen. For the past two years they have worked with their solicitors to silence the British press with threats of libel or deformation – the British press are now tame lap dogs at their beck and call.

As we know Portuguese libel laws are laxer than British laws and the McCanns have failed to halt stories which do not fit what they wish to promote. The Portuguese documentary must worry them as they do not have British laws to silence them. Two years of the battle cry of ‘abduction’ could be seriously knocked.

Looking at the trailer for the documentary it appears to bring dramatically to the small screen Amaral beliefs - perhaps more vividly than the book.

Paranoia must be running rife in Rothley manor and behind everything they must see a threat. The documentary is most certainly a threat with only their production by a tame British media company to counteract the Portuguese documentary.

hope4truth said...

Hi All

Hope you are enjoying the bank holiday...

Wiz Paranoia is a powerful emotion but if they are innocent they have absoloutley nothing to fear...

Gerry should have insisted they went back and did the reconstruction when the PJ asked them to I am sure they could have spun it their own way instead he was once again too arrogant and self obssesed to do the right thing...

If they had cooperated each and every time they were asked too half of my views on them would not be there but they act in an alien way and have gone out of their way to turn themselves into victims which is not normal.

When are our newspapers and police going to stand up and start to ask questions for Madeleine?

For gods sake Kate she was your daughter dont you think she has a right to the truth? If you really are innocent why are you not outraged that you have been put ahead of your child in the Victim stakes? Gerry was the last one to see her dont you doubt him at all??? What about your friends where were they after Gerry saw her were any missing could they have sold her and hidden her somewhere or did one of them do something to her and she woke up and had to be silenced???

Your defence of the people you were with is discusting Madeleine is far more important than any of you so why dont you care enough to answer any questions???

bath theory said...

Furthermore Kate, is the truth of what happened those days and nights so unpalatable that you are ashamed at admitting it?

Given the fact that you are a mother of a child gone missing and have acted in a peculiar way by not answering simple questions it is clear you know things about that night you are witholding.

Will you withold such information when your own children grow up and start asking these things. They will be asked them in the playground in only a few years time. It is never too late to start telling the truth and to seek some comfort in your soul.

Easter weekend and still such silence.

bath theory said...

Time to be open, honest and accountable

hope4truth said...

Hi BT

The Twins will have many questions in the years to come and deserve to know the truth no matter how awful it is...

I am frustrated by Kate it does not matter what she did or did not know but until she answers the 48 questions most of us think she is as guilty as hell of at least knowing what happend to her daughter and not caring enough for her or the twins to tell the truth...

Then not many people do care about Madeleine who should it is all about turning her parents into the victims...

Wizard said...

Well according to the Orlando Sentinel the McCanns will be talking to Oprah on her 4th May show.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entert ... rview.html

The Oprah Winfrey Show" has announced it will have an exclusive interview with George and Cindy Anthony (pictured) in May.

Here's what the show says:

"Grandparents Cindy and George Anthony talk with Oprah about their granddaughter, Caylee Anthony, and the investigation into her death. The Anthonys sit down for an interview together for the first time since their granddaughter's remains were found."

What do you think about that? What do you hope Winfrey asks?

Cindy and George's daughter, Casey, is charged with Caylee's murder.

No date was given. Winfrey's show airs at 4 p.m. weekdays on WFTV-Channel 9.

Winfrey's people announced the exclusive for May along with two others: On May 4, Kate and Gerry McCann, the parents of missing Madeleine McCann, talk to Winfrey.

On May 11, Elizabeth Edwards talks to Winfrey about her husband, former Sen. John Edwards, his affair and her terminal cancer. Mrs. Edwards will be interviewed from her North Carolina home.

The Winfrey people billed the chats as "three exclusive TV interviews with the people behind the headline-making stories that have captured the world's attention."

viv said...

My feelings at the moment are that the media have just turned this case into one big money spinning soap opera. For the McCanns, for Goncalo Amaral and for anyone else who would like to cash in with synchronised documentaries two years later to keep the interest going and the money flowing. It seriously disheartens me. This has nothing to do with the truth or justice.

Hope, I agree with you, Kate McCann as the mother of the child who she has repeatedly told us she loves, should start acting like she loves her and go and tell the police the truth.

I still hope and believe that one day Madeleine will get the justice she deserves from the Police. Serving Police Officers who are not in any way intending to cash in on this case, they are just doing their job, for Madeleine. Officers like Ricardo Paiva and Stuart Prior. I put my faith in them.


xxx

viv said...

People would do well to think long and hard about why Goncalo was taken off the case and then resigned to write a book.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/sacked-police-chief-points-finger-at-mccanns-1707000.html

Sacked police chief points finger at McCanns

THE former police officer thrown off the Madeleine McCann case is set to attack her parents again in a TV documentary.

Shamed Goncalo Amaral will cast doubt on Gerry and Kate's belief that she was snatched by a paedophile. He will claim Madeleine died in the British couple's holiday apartment the night she vanished nearly two years ago.

The documentary is closely based on Mr Amaral's 214-page book 'The Truth of the Lie', penned last year after he was removed from the hunt for missing Madeleine.

It will also include a reconstruction of the night the three-year-old vanished which will lend weight to the idea she died in the Praia da Luz flat.

Portuguese TV station TV1 is set to broadcast it tonight after buying the rights from an independent company.

Its transmission comes 10 days after Mr McCann jetted to the Algarve to help a separate reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared which will go out next month on Channel 4.

Mr Amaral was removed as the head of the Madeleine probe in October 2007 after claiming British police were at the beck and call of the McCanns.

He wrote his controversial book claiming the youngster died in a "tragic accident" in apartment 5A after taking early retirement from the Policial Judiciaria. The book has sold hundreds of thousands of copies in Europe since being released in Portugal last July.

It is yet to be published in Britain following the threat of legal action by the McCanns.

viv said...

joana has a live link to watch Goncalo's doc

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/04/maddie-what-lies-beneath-truth-watch-it.html

I hope I might learn something! But will probably have to wait for Jo to do a translation which she has promised to do asap.

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv how are you feeling???

I dont think GA is worried about legal action from the McCann's in fact I think he would love to get them in a court room... Maybe publishers are worried but surley it could be translated into English and sold via Portugal...

I have been thinking about Kate a lot lately how she is feeling and how she is whatever happend she is living without Madeline and no matter what happend that must be hell... But to leave this all up in the air will never allow her to move on and I seriously belive she will spend the rest of her life in pain and distress...

If she was not abducted and the truth had come out the first night she would be moving forward now looking to the day when things would return to near normal even if god forbid she had snapped yes it would be wrong but could anyone or anything make her feel any worse than she would be feeling?

If she was abducted the games they have played and the questions and lack of co operation have made them seem even more suspicious than they ever would have had they not spun everything....

Tell all Kate and give yourself and your children a future you are by all accounts a very clever Lady this will not be the end but the begining people who love you will support you and you may just be surprised by the publics reaction...

viv said...

I have just watched it and obviously struggled to understand a lot. But, at the end, they have a child who looks spookily similar to Madeleine. She gets out of bed and can hear her daddy outside. She climbs up onto the back of the settee which we are told was not normally right up to the wall, she is struggling to get to the window to see Daddy and then down into the void. That is I have to confess an incredibly plausible scenario and is very sad to watch. But if that is the case this must have happened around 9.15 it just does not explain to me how by 10 Kate was just sent to find her missing or how they got rid of the body and cleaned up so quickly. That, I am afraid, is where it gets very difficult to believe.

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

I have just watched as well I guess the one thing they wont know without a body is the time of death...

My next door neighbour had an Easter Egg Hunt yesterday for her children and her nieces and nephews she hid eggs in our front farden as well so they would have to look futher for them and I could not tell you what any of them looked like today and if someone said I was there with Fred would probebly imagine I had seen him???

If the McCann's are innocent then they have nothing to fear from other opinions but CM saying it was (cant remeber his phrase now)Ludicrous? Ridiculous or stupid that they could be involve is the wrong it is the most likely theory there is and it needed to be explored along with an abduction...

Proving the door could not be opened from the outside is daming especialy as the window has been ruled out!!!!!!!]

xxx

viv said...

Hiya Hope

I feel a lot better than I did yesterday thanks and hope to be completely OK again by tomorrow. My ears feel blocked up and sore now, but that is something I regularly have trouble with and have some drops for that.

I still tend to feel, particularly having heard Mr Meyer that Gerry actually wanted this press speculation to continue because it means he can keep on cashing in and diverting from what I still believe really happened.

I am prepared to consider everything and look forward to Jo translating Goncalo's documentary though. I was interested to see mug shots of the TAPAS obviously being grilled by police and the quick glimpse I saw of Payne he did not look very comfortable.

I too am wondering how Kate must be feeling now and how she is reacting to media shows put on by Gerry and yes I am afraid to say
Goncalo Amaral.

There are cases that have happened in the UK which demonstrate that if someone is trying to broadcast information that is subject to the Official Secrets Act we will not hesitate to come down on them like a tonne of bricks, e.g. Mr Shayler. The British investigation into Madeleine is subject to that act. All criminal cases under investigation are, and any officer would know that if they breach confidence in a case like this getting the sack would be the very least of their problems. I am quite sure that if Goncalo tried to publish his book here or the video the McCanns would not need to sue him, the Attorney General would take out an injunction against him banning any publication. She maybe already has and this would explain why no British publisher will touch Goncalo. He always made plain he has no fear of being sued. I do not believe the Mcs would actually want to sue him anyway. As Mr Meyer said but so promptly got shut up, he offered to just stop the press stories but Gerry did not want them stopped. In short he wanted them to just keep on writing about how either he or Kate killed Maddie. As we know Philomena got the ball rolling in the British press with suggestions PJ believed it was Kate. Clearly Amaral does not think that. I think anyone who cannot see that this is what Gerry has always wanted is not honestly looking at his conduct!

If we only had their side of the story, that Maddie was just abducted by some phantom abductor, he knows only too well that after two years the public would have lost interest. But with a really salacious opposing viewpoint, they actually killed her and dispose of her body, got all their friends to lie, Gerry is quite smart enough to know this is a full on soap opera that he can just keep milking for millions whilst the public are still blissfully unaware of what the truth really is. About him and David Payne discussing sexually abusing Maddie then aged just two.

We are expected to believe that after no more than a tragic accident that they would have faced little criminal sanction for (relatively speaking) all of their friends were prepared to tell a complete and utter pack of lies to cover it all up and risk themselves getting about 3 to 4 years custody for doing so, i.e. probably more than what Kate and Gerry would have faced for just admitting the truth. That just does not make sense. It does not explain why Rachel and Kate in particular are prepared to tell us in gory detail about the dreadful neglect of their children.

hope4truth said...

Viv

I must admit I still find it hard to belive that all the friends would lie for them and there is only one reason I think they would stick together a secret worse than an abduction and by some sick standards the death of a child...

It is worrying the way our press are so one sided on this a child is missing and the most likely people to have taken her are the parents especialy with their lack of help and waste of a fund...

They have had many oportunities to help and they have never done so...

See you tomorrow xxx

viv said...

Hiya Hope

As you say Tanner would not remember such a fleeting glimpse that at the time she paid no attention to and the docu did a very good job of emphasising just how impossible it would have been for her to see anything at all.

If witnesses are watching a real live crime happening then they are pretty good at remembering because obviously their brain kicks in and they make a conscious effort to lay those images into the brain for storage. But on Tanner's own account she just saw something that she thought was pretty normal, if she saw anything at all!

For me, there is just no option of the McCanns being innocent, all of their conduct including still employing Clarence Mitchell says the complete opposite. But, I think it is unreal on what we know to try and specify with any clear precision exactly what they did to Madeleine. But one thing is clear, Gerry McCann has not the slightest trace of concern for Madeleine and he never has had. That is what marks him out as a psychopath and gives an indication of how serious this case is. Why he received 14 texts the day before Madeleine even went missing which is just chooses to deny and why he just happened to have two copies of two pretty old pictures on holiday with him. No normal parent would do that, they would take current pictures of Madeleine. Again demonstrating their planned determination to get rid of Madeleine they never took any pictures of her at all because they did not want her to be recognised looking like she did then aged nearly four. They wanted to bombard us with images of Madeleine when she was two and looked even cuter. A good marketing ploy. Goncalo did seem to confirm that what we have always thought, the tennis balls pic was the only genuine last picture of Madeleine and it did not come from the McCanns camera, I believe it was taken by Tanner. Why have they never wanted to just tell us the truth about the pictures, because they are all part of the cunning plans and manipulation of her father. Including his trip home on about 20.5.07 to start proceedings in the high court to find out what the police are up to and to bring back a faked last shot of Maddie with her Daddy, of course. YOu do not fool me Gerry McCann, or the real investigators, the Police!

viv said...

Hiya Hope

Our press are simply not allowed to comment and investigate at the same time as the police are carrying out a really serious investigation. They have to wait until after the offender has been prosecuted and convicted, i.e. remember Shipman and Huntley, how little we heard before the trial? That is why all we can get is the Mcs side of the story. It has never bothered me in the slightest because the more they try to tell their peculiar story, the less people believe them!

xx

viv said...

Oh and yes Hope another really good point from Goncalo's doc, which again we have always said and even Russell O'Brien confirms IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO OPEN THOSE PATIO DOORS FROM THE OUTSIDE, SO MAT CLEARLY DID NOT MAKE THAT CHECK AT 9.30 AND THEY DID NOT LEAVE THOSE DOORS OPEN TO ALLOW A PREDATOR TO JUST WALK IN.

Bloody silly liars!

The shutters and the bedroom window were not jemmied and the patio doors could not be opened from the outside, there is now way any predator could have got it and there is no forensic evidence of one either! Just you and your mates Gerry, that is all.

viv said...

Interesting piece Joana has published where Sargento attacks the attackers of Goncalo Amaral! The first one he has some respect for in spite the attack on Goncalo but the second one he does not. So much political intrigue seems to emanate from Portugal ! It still leaves me in the position of thinking why write some complex and clever prose to make a simple point. Is it not better to make a point in clear concise language so that it can be readily understood? If people avoid doing that is there a reason for their behaviour, ie. they want to confuse because they are not overly confident or certain of the view they seek to impart? Sorry Mr Sargento, you always leave me with that impression! But I do agree what has Freeport got to do with this? Nothing at all I would say!

April 13, 2009
Maddie: in Portugal, an invisible inclination?

by Paulo Sargento*

(...) “As recently as this week, I heard former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral referring to the McCann couple as assassins of their own daughter – the theory that he defended during the investigations that he conducted and later published in a book. During two years, Dr Amaral had every means, all the time and conditions to prove his extremely serious thesis, or to discover what had happened to Maddie and whether she was alive or dead. He failed to do so, and after all the investigation’s deadlines ran out, it was closed without any conclusions, due to a lack of indicia of anything at all. But, undisturbed, the gentleman carries on, accusing the parents themselves of having killed their daughter and saying that he failed to prove it due to “political pressures”. Is this the kind of ‘justice’ that the Freeport investigators are preparing to reserve for José Sócrates, as well?” (…)

Miguel Sousa Tavares, in ‘Expresso’, 11.04.2009


First, I must state that I foster a certain sympathy for Miguel Sousa Tavares. I consider him to be an exemplary citizen, a Man with a spinal column and without any need to be politically correct, with opinions and filiations that are publicly known and assumed. But it is also due to this assumed sympathy that I must state that I failed to comprehend the paragraph that I transcribed above, which is part of an opinion article that is titled “How to fry a PM on a low flame?”

To me, that paragraph seems ill adjusted to the title and to the issue that it approaches, and Miguel Sousa Tavares is a writer and a columnist who is organised in his speech. I must also state that I don’t believe that José Sócrates received anything whatsoever in the Freeport case. What I fail to understand is what José Sócrates, the Freeport Case, the Maddie Case and Dr Gonçalo Amaral have in common. I also missed my opportunity to find out where Miguel Sousa Tavares heard “former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral referring to the McCann couple as assassins of their own daughter” and “undisturbed, the gentleman carries on, accusing the parents themselves of having killed their daughter and saying that he failed to prove it due to «political pressures»”. Despite reiterating my sympathy for Miguel Sousa Tavares, Columnist, Writer and Jurist, I must confess that it seems to me that he fell prey to an overly easy temptation: to embark on the Maddie case to defend the Prime Minister, blaming the Polícia Judiciária, in the person of Gonçalo Amaral. If journalist Fernanda Câncio had done so, I would find it wrong, but acceptable. That Miguel Sousa Tavares does it, without any kind of explanation, except for the one that he mentions when he questions “Is this the kind of ‘justice’ that the Freeport investigators are preparing to reserve for José Sócrates, as well?”, seems completely unacceptable and devoid of purpose to me. The use of fallacies that are well known to rhetoric and argumentation must be pondered, to avoid confusing excellence with vulgarity.

But unfortunately, there is more.

“Something strange is going on when one accuses the parents of a missing child of a heinous crime, without any evidence”

Paulo Pedroso, in a statement to SIC Notícias during the PS [Socialist Party] Congress

What does Dr Paulo Pedroso mean, with such a statement?

I confess that contrary to the sympathy that I confessed feeling for Miguel Sousa Tavares, Dr Paulo Pedroso does not arouse either sympathy nor antipathy in me. The fact that he is situated in a political quadrant that lies close to the one that I identify myself with, may be tainting my perception of the person in a benign manner. But similarly to what I said about Miguel Sousa Tavares, I failed to comprehend Dr Paulo Pedroso’s affirmation, within the statement that he was making for SIC Notícias at the time. Is it possible that he was riding one media-exposed case in order to counter balance another media-exposed case? It was hard for me to believe, back them, but today I feel compelled to accept that it may have been the case, judging from his statement when he launched his candidacy for the City Hall of Almada, where he anticipated that “no defamation will stop us” (SIC online, April 10). Thus Dr Paulo Pedroso has just proved to us that attack is the best defence, even if by proxy, warning us that the eventual usage of the Casa Pia Case does not scare him. But what does the Casa Pia case have to do with the Maddie case, and other media-exposed cases? As far as we know, Dr Paulo Pedroso has not been tried within the Casa Pia case, and has even been indemnified over the “defamation” that he says he suffered. Then, why is he pulling supposedly past waters into the matter, mixing them with others that, as we stated in a previous post, are too muddy to wash anything at all?

I would like to close this post with another equally incomprehensible situation.

José Manuel Barradas, the Director of daily newspaper “O Público”, stated during a ‘news review’ at SIC, at around the time when the Maddie case was archived, that he agreed with the McCann couple in their refusal to carry out the reconstitution that had been requested by the Polícia Judiciária, arguing that, after one year, it would be natural for people to find it difficult to reconstitute the events in a precise manner, thus potentially falling into contradictions, sustaining that if it were him, José Manuel Fernandes, he wouldn’t do it either.

The editorial line that has been followed by “Público” concerning the Maddie case speaks for itself, and therefore I’ll refrain from any comments. But if José Manuel Fernandes knows what a reconstitution is, will he now accept the one that Gerry McCann says he performed, two years later? Or will he be just as critic?

Invisible inclinations or mere coincidences?

See you in a bit!


source: Câmara de Comuns blog, 13.04.2009


* Forensic psychologist, university professor, author, commentator and blogger

viv said...

and now another one from Forensic Pyschologist, Mr Sargento:

April 13, 2009
Maddie: Reconstitution, Documentary, Propaganda or, simply, a Clown Act? Part I

by Paulo Sargento*

With a documentary about the book “The Truth of the Lie” drawing close (which I strongly recommend to EVERYONE), the British media have massively come out to try to protect, more than ever before, the McCanns’ image. As a matter of fact, Dr Gerry McCann himself has admitted that there were “mistakes on both sides”, according to what Duarte Levy mentions, today, the 13th of April 2009, in daily newspaper ‘24horas’. Now why is that?

But this massive defence by the British newspapers is carried out through an attack, an ignorant and often lying attack, against former PJ investigator Gonçalo Amaral, with the same means. I have already stated that the traditional Portuguese almanac ‘O Borda d’Água’ has much more interest than most of the press that I’m talking about. Still, I wish to signal such media production as the reflex of what I am certain is the enormous fear that said documentary is causing on the McCanns’ side.

Dr Gerry McCann was in Portugal on the weekend before Easter, with the supposed purpose of carrying out a reconstitution of the events of the fateful night of the 3rd of May 2007. In practical terms, Dr Gerry McCann, Jane Tanner and Dr Mathew Oldfield came as consultants for the making of a documentary about what they want to say concerning what happened that night. That fact constitutes, as Karl Popper would say, a strong attack upon the falsifiability that is necessary for the scientific evidence, because it is deadly wounded by confirmatory epistemology. What does this mean? It means, very simply, that nobody can be a judge in his own cause, and that the documentary will necessarily reflect what the “consultants” think about the facts without any intervention of a contradictory nature. The same is to state that this is no reconstitution at all, because: the intervenients are not all present, those who came possess a theory that is not based on facts, one of them is verifiably inconsistent in her testimony (Jane Tanner) and the documentary’s script is not questionable by critical methodologies or by impartial observers.

As a conclusion, this is a FRAUD that will privilege, like an alleged reconstitution from the BBC, the figure of a supposed abductor who hides inside an apartment in front of the back entrance to 5A (and nobody saw him?), studies the family’s routines and those of the tapas nine (which is unlikely, given the high number of intervenients and the short number of days when that could happen – four), abducts Maddie within a relatively short time frame, exits through the window, carrying the little girl in his arms, under the testimony of Jane Tanner, and escapes through a cane field, according to the witness statement from two British citizens who have nothing to do with the case. I’m certain that emphasis will be placed upon two moments: when Gerry enters the apartment and ‘senses’ someone, and when Jane Tanner ‘sees’ the alleged abductor. The documentary’s atmosphere will be tense and will show the unfortunate and sad parents who will deeply lament that they were not at the right time, at the place where they should have been. It will bring us nothing new, just like the so-called new media campaign didn’t bring us anything. Another CLOWN ACT ‘for the English to see’.

In October 2007, in collaboration with Professor Pedro Gamito and his team (Diogo Morais, Jorge Oliveira, Tomás Saraiva, Miguel Pombal and Joel Rosa), I carried out a 3D reconstitution of the two hours that supposedly preceded the disappearance of Madeleine Beth McCann. With data available from four credible sources, two Portuguese ones and two English ones (‘Público’, ‘Sol’, ‘Times Online’ and ‘BBC’), without any previous theory, through the calculation of the index of concordance between these sources and with the intention of describing the events, we could verify that:

- The McCanns lied in their initial statements (from where they dined, it was IMPOSSIBLE to see apartment 5A and the distance that separated them from their children was 84 metres as the crow flies, 114 metres walking, and not approximately 50 as they mentioned);

- The number of comings and goings of the tapas nine members (14) in two hours, with the intent of allegedly checking on the children, produced, in average, time “windows” that were of less than 7 minutes without surveillance. But if we add the comings and goings of these people movements and the high probability of other pedestrians walking on that location, which was also visible from the buildings in front, where many people could be on the balcony, we verify that, according to Bayes’ theorem of conditional probability (taking as possible hypothetical events, two abductions in Praia da Luz, that week), the possibility of an abductor (either premeditated or acting on an impulse) having entered the apartment, taking the little girl, leaving through the window, leaving no trace, without being seen, would be lower than the possibility of a cat falling on a piano’s keyboard with five octaves and playing the anacrusis of the four notes of Beethoven’s fifth symphony. It’s obvious that the problem becomes more complex when it was the parents who mentioned the abduction, immediately and insistently.



But there was another problem. How long would it take for someone to hide the body at a location like the Church? The same team carried out a simulation where, along two alternative routes, someone who took a body by car, at a medium speed of 50 km/h (the maximum speed allowed inside an urban area), would need approximately 27 seconds to carry out that trip. If we imagine a time window of 7 minutes, we would conclude that it would be possible for someone to take Maddie to the church and to return to the Ocean Club within this time frame, even more so because some of the participants left the restaurant for periods over 20 minutes.



This is all for today, but I promise to return to demonstrate once more that the sightings were “fabricated” and that the e-fits are the most ridiculous production of this entire process.

Before I say goodbye, recommending to EVERYONE to watch the documentary that will be broadcast by TVI today, I leave you some unsettling thoughts:

a) Three months ago, on a cold Friday night, I was having coffee with a friend when we received unconfirmed news by phone, from England, that a sudden and critical deterioration of Kate McCann’s health condition had led her to a border situation. This kind of reference has been frequent in certain circles, without it being possible to confirm anything whatsoever, at any hospital. Nevertheless, Kate has been strangely distant and the twins have been spotted, but not their Mother. The allusions to “Kate’s depressions” have been another stumbling stone of this case.

b) Método 3 is no longer mentioned on the findmadeleine site. What happened?

c) The findmadeleine site now anticipates, on its homepage, new t-shirts of the failed campaign on Aldeia da Luz.

d) R. Murat has sued some Portuguese media, the McCanns HAVE NOT!

See you soon.


source: Câmara de Comuns blog, 13.04.2009


* Forensic psychologist, university professor, author, commentator and blogger

viv said...

Well I can certainly agree the likelihood Kate is no longer seen because she is very unwell.

I can obviously also agree that one cannot be a judge in one's own cause and Gerry, erm, documentary, reconstitution will be nothing of the sort. Merely what he has been planning for two years to try and make some plausible explanations for implausible rubbish!

To the implied suggestion though that Dr Amaral has the complete solution as to what took place, there I just have to disagree. It is just another implausible hypothesis where unfortunately Dr Amaral is reliant upon the evidence of the TAPAS 9 for his own timeline, when very plainly that is a tissue of lies!

viv said...

This FOI Act decision is interesting. In paragraph 26 it raises the clear possibility of further investigations in Portugal in the future and other parts of the world!

The whole tenor of the judgment would seem to suggest that Ambassador Buck may have been critical of Portuguese Police and that we would not upset our relations with Portugal by disclosing details of this. I do have the feeling that Ambassador Buck was overly "helpful" to Gerry. Of course Ambassador Buck has lost his job!

It also states that a member of the McCann family had expressed the view that communications he/she made with the Ambassador Mr Buck were made in confidence and he (I am assuming Gerry) does not want them disclosed so that confidence is being respected.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/13464396/fs50188322

viv said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV4Ck61Favg&feature=related

Sandra Filgueiras asking the McCanns some very difficult questions one year on and being told someone has committed an evil crime. I think they just forgot to mention who did that. They hold up their abductor pictures and say the one by Jane is who they think took Madeleine, but he has now been removed from their webpage. So just what are this gruesome couple going to tell us next?

I do not think I will ever get over listening to them trying to justify why they knew Madeleine apparently complained that morning about her and Sean crying but they just went and did it again, it is a cultural thing says Gerry. You better rot in hell mate! It is no culture in Britain to leave tiny tots alone to cry, apart from a number of parents who are still very much in the minority and who are just as evil as you two.

To normal parents ensuring their children have a great holiday and come back home again, safe and well is an absolute priority. We know what your priorities are, your own selfish pleasure and I dread to think what that involves, precisely.

hope4truth said...

Viv

I am all for the press not commenting on any case where the police are investigating..

That does not happen though... Karren Mathews was made to look very odd in articles about her before she went to trial. The papers never said she did it but they did not paint a nice pircture of her though...

The McCanns are being painted as victims and GA an Idiot (Shamed Inspector) how dare he accuse saint Gerry of being anything but a loving father etc etc...

We know the McCann's were lousey parents they were not on a family holiday they were there to have fun with their friends and dump the children all day in a creche and at night left them alone while they went out to a bar....

It is not normal to go on a family holiday in child friendly countrys and just leave the kids at home while you go and eat it is part of the fun...

If Papers cant print the fact that these people have all hindered the investigation lied not answered questions and things like the shutters were not forced are not reported then they should not be attacking a justice system that has worked as well as ours has for years until Gordon Brown and the Pink Plonker started to put it down and stick their noses where they should never have been.

A 3 year old child should not be allowed to vanish and her parents handed a stack of cash to use to spin the case their way. Madeleine is the victim and she deserves justice.

I cant belive she is alive and if she is they must know where she is because to do what they have done since they said she was taken is pure evil and sureley no parent would play with their childs life in this way???

bath theory said...

As the forensic psychologist states

...It means, very simply, that nobody can be a judge in his own cause, and that the documentary will necessarily reflect what the “consultants” think about the facts without any intervention of a contradictory nature...

PS The McCanns should realise that it does not take a forensic psychologist to work that one out.

bath theory said...

In other words , you are digging yourself further into a hole and have been since day one by trying to promote only your own cause. You are all intelligent enough to know the folly of this BUT you must be so desperate to conceal what you know.

Why be so frightened of exposing the truth of that day ?

One can only state that what you know must be truly abhorent, and as such you are dancing with words and diversionary actions to delay the inevitable.

Kate - please walk into the police station and answer those questions.

bath theory said...

Well stated Viv

...For me, there is just no option of the McCanns being innocent, all of their conduct including still employing Clarence Mitchell says the complete opposite. But, I think it is unreal on what we know to try and specify with any clear precision exactly what they did to Madeleine. But one thing is clear, Gerry McCann has not the slightest trace of concern for Madeleine and he never has had. That is what marks him out as a psychopath and gives an indication of how serious this case is. Why he received 14 texts the day before Madeleine even went missing which is just chooses to deny and why he just happened to have two copies of two pretty old pictures on holiday with him. No normal parent would do that, they would take current pictures of Madeleine. Again demonstrating their planned determination to get rid of Madeleine they never took any pictures of her at all because they did not want her to be recognised looking like she did then aged nearly four. They wanted to bombard us with images of Madeleine when she was two and looked even cuter. A good marketing ploy. Goncalo did seem to confirm that what we have always thought, the tennis balls pic was the only genuine last picture of Madeleine and it did not come from the McCanns camera, I believe it was taken by Tanner. Why have they never wanted to just tell us the truth about the pictures, because they are all part of the cunning plans and manipulation of her father. Including his trip home on about 20.5.07 to start proceedings in the high court to find out what the police are up to and to bring back a faked last shot of Maddie with her Daddy, of course. You do not fool me Gerry McCann, or the real investigators, the Police!...

I still feel that some form of legal action will occur against them before Xmas this year. I agree with an earlier comment made that the police really dislike people who think they are so clever and have egos as big as that. They dislike intensely those who think they can evade so brazenly and society does too.

Wizard said...

Good Morning all,

Last night I sat down with great expectation to watch the much awaited TV1 documentary
‘Maddie: What Lies beneath the truth’, only to be disappointed. I tried a couple of links and unfortunately kept loosing the live connection with the broadcast. In the end I gave up.

I am very please to see that Joanna Morais has recorded it and it will be available for viewing soon.

So if you had the same problems viewing as me last night this is a great opportunity to see it. JM says:-

Good news, everyone

I was able to record the documentary on DVD, a better version from the video live feed some of you were able to see. I'll now pass it from VOB to MPEG and then upload it somewhere, and finally will publish it in FLV [flash video] for you all to be able to watch it. Tomorrow expect a summary of the main aspects of the information contained in the documentary, the full translation of the full 50 minutes is redundant since much has been covered in the Forum.

a good evening to all

JM, in Lisboa

Wizard said...

Morning Viv,

I hope you are feeling better and the medicine you took did the trick.

viv said...

Morning Wiz and thanks I feel much better now xx

viv said...

Wiz, I am looking forward to a version of the doc I can understand better, but my initial view is he has cleared and clarified some points but there does not seem to be anything new and his thesis Maddie fell trying to look at Daddy around 9/15 just does not make sense. Who found her and how did they clean up and get rid of the body so quickly. How did the apt supposedly have the scent of death in it.
Sorry but no, no!

If, as I believe, he has not dealt with the evidence re David Payne I suppose in a way that is understandable because it was withheld by UK until he had been removed from the case. But even so, he at least has the knowledge of this that we do and surely could have given us insight into the conduct of DP during the investigation. He did stay there a few weeks with the McCanns. I liked the mugshots of them!

BT WE clearly agree that if there one thing the police just cannot stand it is an arrogant psychopath who thinks he can outwit the police. They will be very determined to prove him wrong about that. But it still seems a very difficult case to bring on, unless they have a lot more than we know about and that is entirely possible!! I am seriously wondering if there are some forensics re sexual abuse.I think I read there were a lot of mixed sample and was it Wiz or someone posted an article I think going back to January FSS now have a new technique that enables them to accurately tease out the various people who have made up a mixed DNA sample. SEx offending cases would obviously be very relevant here!

bath theory said...

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/whatiscan.cfm

Physical abuse is nonaccidental physical injury (ranging from minor bruises to severe fractures or death) as a result of punching, beating, kicking, biting, shaking, throwing, stabbing, choking, hitting (with a hand, stick, strap, or other object), burning, or otherwise harming a child, that is inflicted by a parent, caregiver, or other person who has responsibility for the child.2 Such injury is considered abuse regardless of whether the caregiver intended to hurt the child. Physical discipline, such as spanking or paddling, is not considered abuse as long as it is reasonable and causes no bodily injury to the child.

Neglect is the failure of a parent, guardian, or other caregiver to provide for a child’s basic needs. Neglect may be:

Physical (e.g., failure to provide necessary food or shelter, or lack of appropriate supervision)
Medical (e.g., failure to provide necessary medical or mental health treatment)3
Educational (e.g., failure to educate a child or attend to special education needs)
Emotional (e.g., inattention to a child’s emotional needs, failure to provide psychological care, or permitting the child to use alcohol or other drugs)
These situations do not always mean a child is neglected. Sometimes cultural values, the standards of care in the community, and poverty may be contributing factors, indicating the family is in need of information or assistance. When a family fails to use information and resources, and the child’s health or safety is at risk, then child welfare intervention may be required. In addition, many States provide an exception to the definition of neglect for parents who choose not to seek medical care for their children due to religious beliefs that may prohibit medical intervention.4

Sexual abuse includes activities by a parent or caregiver such as fondling a child’s genitals, penetration, incest, rape, sodomy, indecent exposure, and exploitation through prostitution or the production of pornographic materials.

Sexual abuse is defined by CAPTA as "the employment, use, persuasion, inducement, enticement, or coercion of any child to engage in, or assist any other person to engage in, any sexually explicit conduct or simulation of such conduct for the purpose of producing a visual depiction of such conduct; or the rape, and in cases of caretaker or inter-familial relationships, statutory rape, molestation, prostitution, or other form of sexual exploitation of children, or incest with children."

Emotional abuse (or psychological abuse) is a pattern of behavior that impairs a child’s emotional development or sense of self-worth. This may include constant criticism, threats, or rejection, as well as withholding love, support, or guidance. Emotional abuse is often difficult to prove and, therefore, child protective services may not be able to intervene without evidence of harm or mental injury to the child. Emotional abuse is almost always present when other forms are identified.

Abandonment is now defined in many States as a form of neglect. In general, a child is considered to be abandoned when the parent's identity or whereabouts are unknown, the child has been left alone in circumstances where the child suffers serious harm, or the parent has failed to maintain contact with the child or provide reasonable support for a specified period of time.

Substance abuse is an element of the definition of child abuse or neglect in many States.5 Circumstances that are considered abuse or neglect in some States include:

Prenatal exposure of a child to harm due to the mother's use of an illegal drug or other substance
Manufacture of methamphetamine in the presence of a child
Selling, distributing, or giving illegal drugs or alcohol to a child
Use of a controlled substance by a caregiver that impairs the caregiver's ability to adequately care for the child

Wizard said...

Viv,

I don’t think Amaral is suggesting that Madeleine had a fatal accident at 9.15pm but earlier. We will have to wait for the English translation.

Did you see in the documentary Gerry down on his hands and knees praying to Mecca followed up by the pair of them on the bed doing the same. If I had been the pj I would have made them arguidos there and then.

What made me laugh out loud was the re-enactment of Tanner’s sighting. It had Gerry and Wilkin’s talking outside the gate on the pavement. Tanner walks past them and has to turn sideways to get through – it so narrow - and neither of them see her despite Gerry looking straight at her. LOL

Di said...

Hi All

I have watched the videos which have been posted on You tube, regarding the reconstruction.

One of the things I found odd was Madeleine underneath the bed covers.

Gerry himself said when he last checked Madeleine she was on top of the covers and he thought how lucky he was etc.

JT passing Madeleines window with the curtains billowing out, would she not have noticed this?

Also sorry, it would be impossible for Gerry & JW not to notice JT passing them. Is this why Gerry suddendly has his, I remember crossing the road moment.

The lies are becoming just too obvious.

Di said...

Hi Wizard

The bed scene was incredible. I could not believe what I was seeing. Heavily staged camed to mind. That was certainly not a normal reaction from anyone.

Wizard said...

Hi Di,

At the opening of the documentary did you notice how much the camera played on the drinking going on in the tapis bar.

Also if an abductor got out of the bedroom window Madeleine must have been unconscious. There is no way anyone could have got through the window with a child they would either to have put her down on the bed, got out the window then leaned in to get her – or – somehow got through the window wit her and had a fall the other side. The window is too high up for most people – certainly too high for bundleman. .

The window isn’t really a serious possibility even if we assumed an abduction took place.

Di said...

Hi Wizard

Yes you are right the play on the drinking was obvious thoughout.

If the sighting of JT was to believed regarding the light! Sorry no way could you describe who you saw, what they were wearing or even if they had something in their arms, it would not be possible.

viv said...

hiya all

BT thanks for the reminder that what the McCanns have freely admitted to is serious child abuse. They knew she had been alone and crying with her little brother but they just went and done it again, and even try to justify such wicked conduct. That is both emotional and physical abuse. It would also provide an explanation, in itself, without additional sexual abuse as to why Madeleine was described by creche workers as timid and frightened. Even on what was meant to fun playing on little boats, I am frightened, I don't like it.

And yet, Gerry in particular, continue to parade himself before the cameras as some example of a hurt and perfectly innocent parent. He makes my flesh creep. The Police and SSD had to have a case conference about the McCanns and visit them, we do not know how many times, but I think it is time that man accepted he is a long way off being a normal and loving parent and we are sick of looking at and listening to him. I find him quite loathesome and the more I see him the more I feel that way. Why does he not understand people just do not like him and they never will, they will always blame him for what happened to Madeleine. The video where Kate just pulls that ridiculous smug face that I posted is absolutely bizarre and really horrible. I cannot understand why she agreed to do that. Her current behaviour makes a lot more sense to me. She is a guilty parent, she knows she is in trouble and she is lying low. That is sensible. What would be even more sensible is to go to the police and tell the truth!

viv said...

Wiz some good points about the doc.

Yes he had Gerry and Jez standing where two of the witnesses say they were. So that is fair, but it then shows up why Gerry chooses to lie about that, because Jane had to squeeze past them and just could not possibly have gone unnonoticed.

Then Gerry throwing himself on the floor immediately panning to the ridiculous bed scene heads down and wailing was brilliant!

He has certainly done a good job of demonstrating how ridiculous their lies and conduct really was and in that respect the McCanns must be horrified. Gerry cannot change the film again that he has made. Speaking of which I remember seeing a very large light being used during the filming, no doubt to make it possible that Tanner could see this phantom creature.

I am not clear on why there is a continuing insistence the phantom passed Maddie out the window, I think it has been said by McCann relatives he broke in through the window and exited through the door. But Amaral correctly has the bed positioned right under the window. If he had broken in through there he would have had to step on that bed and there is a good chance that was the bed Maddie was actually in. Whether she was or not they would have had clear forensic evidence on the bed of debris from the footprint as he landed.

viv said...

Di, good point as well about showing Maddie in the bed when Gerry very clearly says she was on top of it, just the way he left her.

I wonder if Gerry is saying that because they were clean sheets, Madeleine had never been in the bed at all and so there would be no forensic evidence of her being in there. But perhaps there would be forensics of her on the counterpane because that did not get washed as often as the bed sheets. When you think it through there is always a method in his madness. Because if it was cool that night as Jane suggests, no loving parent would just leave their child on top of the bed, they would "tuck them up" as I can remember doing many times when checking my children when they were little and finding them uncovered. That is just a natural thing to do. There is nothing natural about Gerry it is always explaining matters to try and defy the evidence or in this case, lack of it!

viv said...

and again, I am afraid, it is where Goncalo's theory appears to fall down, that is a pretty serious innacurracy to have her actually in the bed, it would seem.


My view is the whole bed scene was just stage to make it look like she had ever been there, when she had not. The really serious lies and confusion are in the period from 5 pm to about 8 pm and this is where we get so many different tales about when Payne was there. I am sure this is when something happened to Madeleine. She either died during that time or was abused and injured , I think. They are definitely hiding something in that time period not just later because there are so many confusing lies. Did Gerry have an achilles tendon injury or was he actually playing tennis. He was in charge of the children presumably when Kate went for a jog. Payne tries to suggest to British Police he was there around 5 pm but they did not even get Maddie from nursery until 5.30 I think that is shown on Goncalo's film. I am sure Payne has a lot to do with what happened to Madeleine and he was refusing to discuss it any further with Brit Police, I already told the Pt. This is typical behaviour of a criminal who does not want to talk about what he did!

viv said...

No comments at all from TB on 3 As I notice. Oh dear did he lose the limelight!

viv said...

Going back to July 2008 some very informed commentators on this case have also thought this case involves sexual abuse, notably Joana Morais and Pamalam, see below:
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/07/english-ignored-complaint-for.html

I do think it is wrong thought to suggest we were refusing to have complaints of paedophilia made against Gerry and Payne. Details were sent to Ricardo Paiva on 24/10 and it has to be said that coincides with Goncalo being removed from the case. Naturally we would want this kept completely confidential.


On July 19, Joana Morais said...
Indeed SB, can't imagine why the McCanns, parents of the missing girl Madeleine would trust a 'friend' who had complaints done to the police about is paedophile behaviour, and this apparently were done to the British Police by fellow doctors.

Actually if I was in their position, something that I would never be because I would never leave a child of mine or of someone else alone at any time, but supposing I would neglect a child of mine and then that I was in the McCanns situation I would for sure want the Police to question and understand fully how, where and who exactly my Tapas friends are and what steps they have taken on that day. As Marc Klaas said in an interview I would cooperate fully with the authorities. So why did the McCanns and the rest of the Tapas Friends do a Pact of Silence? Why didn't they cooperate with the Police? Why, unless they all have to hide something, unless their hidden agenda is not an innocent one?

Some people, maybe because of being naive or because of wanting to believe always in the good side of human nature seem that, they only see what they want to believe, and nothing else - even if the truth one day will come out these people will still say that the parents were not to blame.

Funny thing is, that parenthood does not grant love for the child every time as we know - there cases of incest, of abandonment, of filicide, and more.

Unfortunately though human nature is capable of the most wonderful creations like art, music, literature on the other side is also capable of the most destructive, vile and evil actions.
On July 19, Anonymous said...
Very good words,J.M.

Work?Promotions?What?

We will wait by the complet news...

´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´
...."senior research fellow in cardiovascular sciences at Leicester University and a doctor....
On July 19, speak your mind said...
I dont know if you will post this Joana but I have often wondered if the friends of the McCanns and maybe even the McCanns practice paedophilia and Madeleines disappearance is because of this.
On July 19, pamalam said...
I have always thought from day one that a paedophilia connection within the group was always a possibility. I just pray to god that my thoughts are wrong.
On July 19, Anonymous said...
Joana,

não há fumo sem fogo. Todas as fotos da menina em poses não próprias para a idade fariam supor algo relacionado com isto.Daí que, mesmo que fosse morte acidental a necessidade de esfumar o corpo.
Pobre criança.
On July 19, speak your mind said...
You have to say, Payne is a strange looking dude, the kind I would tell my children not to go near.
perhaps some of the tapas cronies along with the McCanns had some kind of paedophile thing going on and during the course of it or perhaps not even related to it Madeleine met an accidental death, the cover up was to make sure no autopsy revealed signs of sexual abuse, just a thought.
On July 19, Shu/Outono said...
Pamalan falou...deixou sair os seus pensamentos. Sempre tão previdente,tão cautelosa e fazendo o excelente trabalho ao arquivar no seu Blog todo o Blog do ...até me custa cada vez mais,referir-me ao progenitor da Infeliz Maddie.

*************************

E,sim Joana. As fotos da Pequenina eram chocantes por serem de completa Lolita.Lembro-me muito bem do que senti ao ver e sem estar condicionada por alguém.Os meus "sentires" foram imediatos e levaram-me a comentar isso mesmo (lolita) no Blog de P.R.

O mundo é mesmo mau e feio.
On July 19, Shu/Outono said...
Joana Morais: uma Pessoa Grandiosa!

Infinitamente Grandiosa. Extraordinária exposição de factos no Blog de P.R.

Estamos com imenso orgulho em Si.Na Pessoa que é!

Que seja FELIZ SEMPRE, apesar de ser tão difícil por termos de conviver com os piores, com os podres e a podridão.
On July 19, Jolie said...
Publishing this information would leave the paper open to libel charges if not true, so I hope that what they are reporting is factual information (and, yet, part of me hopes it is not).

If it is true, if David Payne has molested children, I hope he is right now feeling the fear and discomfort that he created in them, multiplied by 1,000, by the publication of these suspicions. (If he is not guilty, then I'm sorry for him. He will be considered a paedophile by many people from now on, regardless of whether he is or not.)

It was O'Brien, not Payne, who was mentioned as being away from the dinner table much of the evening before the announcement of Madeleine's disappearance. Of course, whatever happened to Madeleine may have occurred earlier that afternoon, before dinner. Payne was the alleged last witness (other than her parents) who actually physically saw Madeleine awake and alive before dinner at 6:30 pm. After the disappearance, he is also the one who is reported to have said to a newspaper reporter for Sol, "We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else's business."

This case has had a terrible stench to it for a long time. Perhaps the public is close to finally learning the cause of it.

Thank you, Joana, for translating the article and putting it up for us to read.
On July 20, josiepublic said...
Poor Madeleine.
If this is true about Payne and Gerry. Are the reports of Clarence being there that evening/earlier true?

If you put them together with these two articles (assuming they're true too) the picture you get is horrendous;

http://tpuc.org/node/31
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/alleged_pedophiles.html
Lets hope this is NOT whats behind the compliance/complicity of British newspapers/media.

viv said...

This does seem to confirm my view that any references to paedophilia were being dealt with by Ricardo Paiva. How much would we all give for a confidential chat with him! This is from the only report that has appeared in our press that Madeleine was supposedly stolen to order for a Belgian Paedophile ring. I think that anon email got sent to our met police by the Retardos or some others acting on behalf of Gerry. Again, interesting the way they print the fantasy but are not allowed to print the facts. I think LP prevent them from doing that, but it does give a very false and misguided picture from our own press whilst want to protect the real truth within the investigation. The anger of people that the press appear to be on the side of Kate and Gerry in this way is understandable, but if, at the end of the day, due to that it means that Payne, Gerry etc are able to stand trial, a fair trial because it has not been aired in the press, I am sure we will all really rejoice in finally getting just what we want, JUSTICE FOR MADDIE.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... order.html

DC John Hughes, from Leicestershire Police, forwarded the email to the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) at Portimao in the Algarve on April 21, the files showed.

The next day the email was sent to Ricardo Paiva, one of the three Portuguese police officers leading the investigation.

On April 28, Portuguese police faxed the information to Interpol in Lisbon and asked them to investigate it as a matter of urgency.

viv said...

Payne says at the start of his rogatory that he had worked for two years at Leicester General Hospital (there are three major hospitals in Leics The General, Glenfields and The Royal Infirmary, all fairly close together)

HE then says he has for one week been working at Derby Hospital as a Registrar. His date of birth is given as 1956, whether he is 42 or 52 it is most unusual for a doctor to keep moving hospitals and to not have a consultant post by this stage. Gerry Mat Russell are younger and are all consultants. Payne was a researcher for some years at Leics Uni. What is it that has put such a blot on his career? I am afraid I could hazard a guess!

Wizard said...

Good Morning all,

It’s been observed the McCanns usually have a reason for what they do.

Amaral’s documentary highlights very bizarre behaviour on the McCanns part. In particular Gerry’s conversion to Allah, praying to Mecca before the pj, then he and his wife assume the same position on the bed, with the police looking through the open door. All very theatrical but was this just ham acting?

Both are doctors and during training would have worked in casualty, seen many people in shock and observed the different types of behaviour displayed. They would also be aware, as doctors, that shock means the individual cannot function and doctors often have to tell the police they cannot ask questions of their patient at that time due to shock. Also anything said by a person in this state needs to be clarified when they come out of shock as nothing they say at this point can be considered factual or used in court.

We know Kate was witnessed by the Ocean Club staff not being able to string a sentence together and also not able to walk unaided shortly after she announced her daughter missing. This is followed up by Gerry’s bizarre behaviour – imo they are both feigning shock.

My reasoning is that whatever happened to Madeleine her parents felt the need to cover up the facts. A very sketchy plan was put together and the abduction plan was hatched.

Time was very short and a detailed plan could not be formulised so they feigned shock to buy time to think through the best strategy to conceal the facts. I think Kate in particular pulled this off more convincingly than Gerry and the pj originally bought into this.

I not sure I explained this very well but imo their bizarre behaviour was to feign shock, not answer difficult police questions and buy time to get their stories straight.

viv said...

Hi Wiz

Although I can agree Kate and Gerry may have first hand experience of people suffering from shock, I do not think they were putting on a very good act. Maybe in her role formerly as an anaesthetist and then as a part time GP she did not really see much of this and likewise perhaps in his position of diagnostics in heart conditions likewise.

Kate's reaction, it seems to me was way way over the top for a mom who had been neglectful of her child and as a result that child had gone missing. The obvious assumption would be that Maddie just wandered off. So I think a mom who had done that would be pretty frantic and upset but telling the police what she had done how sorry she was and just begging them to help her. I definitely think she would have been on her toes running around looking for her also. She would have thinking of the proximity of the sea and just quite frantic to go and rescue her baby. That is how a natural born mom would feel. Very upset, very worried but by no means just completely breaking down and immediately giving up all hope. IMO Kate knew what happened to Madeleine and she knew she there was no chance of getting her back, "they have taken her". She was reported to have continued to just keep saying this even after the PJ arrived. I do not think she was acting. I cannot be certain whether she meant they had taken her body or what you know I think is more likely, they had been sexually abusing Madeleine and then arranged for her removal. Either way I just think Kate knew this was terminal and hence her reaction of just completely breaking down immediately. In the night asking for a Priest.

Always at the back of my mind when saying this about Kate, I have this feeling that it is possible she may be just as much of a psychopath as Gerry and totally faking it, but somehow I just do not think so. But even so, it is possible. The early pictures we saw of Kate were ones where she genuinely looked utterly demented and this is not consonant with her being psychopathic and having no empathy. I think what we subsequently began to see from Kate was Gerry telling her she had better pull herself together and start acting what he perceived to be in a normal way. But when you look at videos of her she looks emotionally numb and utterly under his control. There is one where he squeezes her bruised upper arm when she gets her lines wrong. She says something I want to say something to the person who was with our Madeleine. His reaction to that is very graphic, she had got that wrong, because clearly he was the person who had been with our Madeleine.

I think Gerry is so psycopathic that he just has no idea how a normal person would behave in any given situation. He just cannot help himself, the bursting into a loud grin in front of Paxman at talk of his media circus was highly inappropriate but he is proud of it and he does think it is funny. He does not seem to realise that when he is gaffooning and laughing the minute he thinks the camera is turned off, or bouncing off in a rage people are going to find this highly odd. He did not realise that appearing in front of all the cameras outside the church on Madeleine's birthday and appearing so elated with joy and laughter was a very bizarre spectacle to a normal person. So when he is trying to act the part in front of the GNR and then the PJ he does what he thinks would be right. We heard from another witness he was rolling around the floor making loud noises on his mobile outside the apt, and then the jumping down onto his knees. In both of these you can say he was playing to an audience. Kate may well have been crying on the bed as the PJ arrived and he has just mirrored her behaviour because he really did not know what to do so we have this doubly bizarre spectacle.

viv said...

I think the other issue is as well, Kate is just not a natural born mom. Madeleine cried a lot when she was a baby and Kate could not console her, I think this affected the bonding process and perhaps made Kate feel inadequate and depressed. Before she had time to recover from that and try and bond properly with Madeleine she had another two twin babies to cope with and she just never got the chance to really bond with Madeleine. This affected her ability I think to protect Madeleine from what was going on, and I think Gerry and Payne used Kate's mental health and ambivalent feelings towards Madeleine in just the most wicked way possible.

I just think it really is the most terrible tragedy and if Kate could have been nearer to her mother and had more help from her, this may not have happened. But men like Gerry will want to control their wife and part of that control is always isolating the woman from her family.

I do not just feel sympathy for kate (and I hope I am not wrong) I feel great sympathy for her poor mother also, I just cannot imagine how she must feel.

xx

Wizard said...

I was just reading this on Anorak. It’s interesting he mentions the Daily Express and Mail articles which do not appear on line. I wonder why?

Madeleine McCann: Gerry And Kate McCann On Oprah Winfrey Show
AS predicted a summer of Madeleine McCann news awaits. Can the desired result be achieved? Will Madeleine McCann be found?
The Daily Record has more news: “McCANNS TO SHOW ‘AGED’ MADDIE PICS ON OPRAH SHOW.”
Pictures of what Madeleine McCann looks like now are to be revealed on Oprah Winfrey’s talk show.
Oprah Winfrey has reach, but is she big in Portugal, where the child went missing? Remember this?

DAILY EXPRESS: “MADELEINE: £1M WAR FOR MCCANN INTERVIEW”
“AMERICA’S top chat show hosts are locked in a bidding war for an exclusive interview with the parents of Madeleine McCann. Oprah Winfrey and Barbara Walters have each pledged £1million in an attempt to get them in front of the TV cameras, it emerged yesterday”
DAILY MAIL: “Kate and Gerry McCann in £1million deal to tell all to Oprah Winfrey”
Her parents Kate and Gerry will appear on the US programme, which will be broadcast on the weekend of the second anniversary of her disappearance on May 3.
Looks like Oprah won.
Why Oprah?
Some recording for the one hour special has already taken place and more will follow next week at the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children in Washington.
Not the British National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children, but the US venue. Madeleine McCann was/is British. Do the McCanns believe their daughter is in the US? Anyone who has ever encountered US Customs will marvel at the audacity of smuggling such a high-profile child past them.
Old Mr Anorak once has a grapefruit conviscated on his to Miami from Brazil.
Washington has featured in the McCann story before:
* A source, said to be close to the McCanns, tells the Express that Beckett even broke off “important” calls to Washington to telephone Kate and Gerry.
* Gerry McCann is in Washington. He is in the White House meeting staff in the employ of First Lady Barbra Bush.
* In summer 2007, Gerry McCann met US Attorney General Alberto Gonzales in Washington to discuss efforts to tackle child abduction.
The US charity, have produced the images of how Madeleine would look two years on from her 2007 disappearance at an Algarve holiday apartment.
The “age progression” pictures show her as they believe she looks now, aged five. The McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell said:
“Kate and Gerry have seen the pictures and they are extremely pleased with them. They would not be doing this if they didn’t think these pictures genuinely showed how their missing daughter would look today.
“The Oprah show is seen by millions in the United States and worldwide and they hope these age progressed pictures will lead to the crucial sighting which will bring their daughter home.”
True enough, Orpah is the global brand. But is Oprah interested in the child or the parents? Is this not just another reason to gawp at the McCanns? Do people tune in to help or to stare, to play armchair detective, or to enjoy the mourn porn of another’s suffering and feel connected to it?
Does the grandstanding matter so long as there is chance it can help find the child?
Oprah has been asking Kate and Gerry to appear since Madeleine vanished. They felt it inappropriate while they continued to be suspects in her disappearance.
The McCanns are no longer suspects. They are innocent. And their child - after two years of news and sensation - remains missing…
Anorak - Posted: 15th, April 2009

Wizard said...

This is an interesting bit of information from Photon over at 3A's. I wonder if the saintly one has landed himself a plumb job in this unit? He certainly wouldn't be backward incoming forward.

"Leicester Chosen for National Research Centre for Heart Disease

Leicester hospitals and the University of Leicester secure funding for new research unit

Issued on 15 April 2009

The National Institute of Health Research (NIHR) has chosen Leicester as the home for a new 5.5 million pound national research centre for heart disease at Glenfield Hospital."

viv said...

Well it looks like Kate may be coming out of hiding! Presumably a last ditch effort to persuade everyone they are innocent, then they can spring Maddie. Nothing would surprise me! I actually thought this Oprah talk was a hoax, but now I have seen it on Sky I believe it!


McCanns To Appear On Oprah Winfrey Show

4:42pm UK, Wednesday April 15, 2009

Tessa Chapman, Sky News reporter
Madeleine McCann's parents are to be interviewed by Oprah Winfrey to mark the second anniversary of their daughter's disappearance.

Gerry and Kate McCann

The McCanns will appear on US TV to talk about Madeleine

Kate and Gerry McCann will fly to Chicago next week to film a one-hour special with the American chat show queen.

It will be broadcast on May 3, two years after Madeleine vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal.

The show will also feature footage from the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children in Washington.

The US charity has produced age-progressed images for the programme to show what Madeleine would look like now, aged five.

Oprah Winfrey

Chatshow host Oprah Winfrey

The McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell told Sky News Online: "These new photos will be revealed for the first time on Oprah.

"They have been done with the latest technology and Kate and Gerry believe they are the best possible visualisation of what Madeleine looks like now."

Mr Mitchell played down speculation of a multi-million pound deal for the interview.

"Oprah Winfrey does not pay for interviews," he said.

"Kate and Gerry will not be receiving a single dollar for this and neither will the fund for Madeleine.

"The importance is the global platform it gives them to look for that breakthrough in the search for Madeleine."

180 Madeleine McCann last picture taken

Missing: Madeleine McCann

Last year he denied the couple were at the centre of a bidding war worth £1m between Winfrey and ABC star Barbara Walters.

Oprah has been asking Mr and Mrs McCann to appear on the show since Madeleine went missing.

But it is understood they thought it was inappropriate while they were still suspects in her disappearance.

Oprah is well-known for featuring high-profile guests and has previously dedicated entire shows to missing children.

In 2007 she interviewed 15-year-old Shawn Hornbeck who was found alive after a four-year kidnap ordeal.

The programme is viewed by millions of people in America and is shown in 144 countries across the world.

Madeleine's parents are said to be hoping it will keep the search for their daughter alive.

Wizard said...

The Oprah web site has a message board up and running and already the chimps are in full cry.

viv said...

Hiya Wiz

Sometimes it makes you ashamed to be a Brit, doesn't it! As though Kate and Gerry were not bad enough we have Rosie, Bum, Rhodes etc. I just do not know what Oprah will make of this gruesome bunch of child abuse supporters, who can manage to sit and churn out abuse, 24/7!

xx

bath theory said...

Viv you have mail
:)

Wizard said...

Joana Morias now has the English translation of Amarals documentatry. linkHave just finished reading through the translation. It transpires that Tanner was placed in an undercover pj van where lots of people unknown to her walked by and she finger Murat as the man she saw carrying the child away on 3 May.

Amaral comments that several months later she miraculously is able to recall facial features and they were different to those of Murat.

That’s a surprise – not!

I’ve just read that the McCanns have asked the Channel 4 documentary to be changed. I wonder why! LOL

viv said...

Bi BT I will go and have a look!

Wiz

I do not think that is right. I am pretty sure I read that Bob Small arranged for her to sit in a van and be right nearby as they arranged for Murat to be there but she failed to identify him. I am not sure now where I have read that, but presumably somewhere in the DVD files. You will appreciate I have done a lot of reading now! I think it was reasonable for the police to take the steps they did with Murat given he did have the finger pointed at by Team McCann. It is not the Police who are to blame for hounding Murat, it is the ones who falsely pointed that finger where action should be taken for perverting the course of justice. Friends of Payne can obviously spot him apart from Murat!

But thanks for the link which I will certainly be checking out!

xx

viv said...

In fact when you think about it, it now seem pretty likely that it was David Payne who carted Maddie off and the TAPAS have tried to supplant Murat for Payne. I just wonder though if that is with Murat's permission because he has done very nicely out of the damages? Just like they have? All part of the master plan?

viv said...

Hi BT I think that is a very good idea and in fact snap.

I will circulate your mail to Di, Wiz and Hope.


xx

viv said...

This statement from Guilhermino Encarnacao Joint PJ Director in Goncalo's film emphasises that we he is trying to tell us, he proves that Madeleine died in just a fallacy, and a pretty dishonest one too.

Until we have evidence that in fact the worst may have happened to her, we continue to think that she may be ALIVE. As you know, under the Pt juridical order, it is not only abduction that gives a ransom. If someone abducts a person for a SEXUAL ACT that is also an abduction. It is on that basis that we are hopeful.


In other words he completely agrees with my own theory and I am going to suggest again, that just has to be the right one, that clearly the British authorities also believe to be the case. This is what Gerry McCann arranged for his own daughter.

viv said...

It is pouring with rain but the garden looks wonderful. A mass of flowers and bulbs, white blossom on trees and new leaves unfolding. Already I can see there are blackbirds and bluetits nesting in dense shrubs near my kitchen. An on the line pole I hung a little nest box behind the hanging basket, to my great delight, wrens have taken up residence in there.

The joy of Spring! The rain is not bothering the birds but it would be lovely to have a turn in the garden myself, just like yesterday in the sun!

Di said...

Hi All

Thanks for your mail Viv I have responded.

Your mention of birds. We saw a sight yesterday that we have never seen before. Three Crows on our lawn attacking a Magpie, I would go as far as to say they were killing it, they had it pinned to the ground and were all pecking furiously at it. We opened the door and our dog chased them off and thankfully the Magpie flew away also.

I know they say Magpies kill baby birds but to see this situation was just awful.

Wizard said...

The future of investigative journalism – and interesting article I picked up via twitters.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/apr/16/internet-newspapers-national-endowment

viv said...

Hiya Di


I have never heard of crows ganging together to bully a magpie in that way before. It must have been a worrying sight by the sound of things. Good job you sent the dog out!

My step father and I, who both love birds, once watched a sparrow hawk swoop down and catch a sparrow which it then held mercilessly down on the ground whilst it finished it off and then just continued to hold it in that way even when it was dead. We did not interfere, we were so fascinated really and one expects this from a sparrow hawk!

At my other house, many years ago, to my great amazement a peregrine came swooping down and lunged at sparrows in the conifers, missed and then just came and sat on the fence a few feet away from me, fearlessly glaring. I was not sure what it was at the time and had to look it up, but will always remember that awesome bird!

bath theory said...

Viv
You have mail again

Di said...

Hi all

BT your mail yesterday, good idea, I have responded to Viv.

bath theory said...

And to think this group of so called 'friends' have tried to undermine/censor our thoughts and undermine/censor our good friends from Portugal. As Joana Morais' blog shows Portugal has the brains to mention in Article 37 the rights which underpin a democracy that at least tries to value the power of free speech. It just struck me this evening as I read her latest input from Silvia Batista a manager at the Ocean Club. For those who need the link http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/

1.Everyone shall possess the right to freely express and publicise his thoughts in words, images or by any other means, as well as the right to inform others, inform himself and be informed without hindrance or discrimination 2.Exercise of the said rights shall not be hindered or limited by any type or form of censorship Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, Article 37.º

One of the things Batista has said...

from the very first moment on, both Gerry and the rest of the group members insisted in stating that Madeleine had been abducted, all of them using the word “abducted” instead of missing, and they all showed great interest in informing the press about the situation...

...She noticed that none of the group members, including the child’s mother and father, were busy looking for her. The mother was sitting on the master bedroom’s bed, the father accompanied the deponent and the GNR officers and the other group members walked in and out and spoke on the phone, apparently concerned about informing the press about the event...

bath theory said...

Hi Di, time for this charade to be confronted by Oparh me thinks.

bath theory said...

Gerry's blog Day 34
... The German interviewers are a little more direct with their questions but I was still surprised by the question as to whether Kate and I may be involved in Madeleine’s abduction! Hopefully our answers removed any doubt on that score and that our sole focus in all of the family campaigning is to get Madeleine back...

We shall discover whether Oprah decides to get in touch with her 'German' side when these two meet her. No serious person , certainly not a professional who has passed academically rigorous exams would be suprised in the slightest that people would be questioning the extent of their possible involvement.

Di said...

Posted on 3A's by Hippychick.

A good reminder. video link

viv said...

hiya all

I spoke with my mom and step father this evening about this case. They only have the benefit of the British news. Their overwhelming feeling that came across was that they just cannot understand why they want to keep making money from their (probably) dead little girl. They are not clear they killed her but just feel they are responsible for what happened to her. My step father emphasising that their behaviour is just not normal smiling etc, and he feels the police will catch them in the end. My step father also said that at the end of the day whatever they did with her, they are responsible because there is just no way they should have left those children, and given they did that just does not make them normal parents. They were both adamant that you would be so grief stricken if genuine there is just no way you would do all these press and television interviews to keep making money out of it.

I thought it might be encouraging to just hear what ordinary people think who do not have the internet etc. Their current campaign is clearly just giving people the impression they are cashing in rather than they are looking for her.

Wizard said...

Good Afternoon all,

I was reading a novel last night which is about the kidnapping of a 15 year old girl from a rich American family. Bear with me - the reason I mention this is it was interesting to see the advice being given by the investigator to the mother of the girl before the family and police gave a press conference. This work is fiction but based on research and it struck me as very similar in handling to that of the McCann press interviews.

The mother of the girl says. “You’re not going to let me beg for the safe return of my daughter. Why is that?” The investigator did not tell her that if a sadist had her child, watching her pain on TV might inspire him to get more creative with his victim.

The woman tells the investigator that her statement was to be read out to the press by his boss who wrote the statement for her. The investigator was aware of this because the mother couldn’t be trusted, the semantics were too important. One wrong word could send the wrong message, then they would find themselves going from working a kidnapping to working a murder case.

The investigator says to the woman. “Reporters know the ground rules. That doesn’t mean they’ll necessarily follow them, but you have to. Don’t let them bait you. Don’t let them force you into a situation where you have to explain yourself, or where you say something that might later be used against you.”

Investigator. “If you want to punish yourself for what happened to your daughter then take some pills or try experimenting with heroin. You’ll be much better off than throwing yourself onto the mercy of the press” He wondered what else could be said – weep? Fall on the floor/ rend your clothes? Wail, All of these things seemed like obvious reaction that a normal person might have, but they certainly wouldn’t play well for the cameras.

The woman asks “What if I do something wrong or don’t look grieved enough, or look too grieved , or..”

The investigator knew that the grieving-mother card could never be played enough times in situations like this. The father was simply an accessory. Knowing how these things worked, he guessed that half the people following the story assumed that the father was the root of all this evil. If the mother came across as too strong, then they would toss her onto the list of suspects, as well. Then, of course, if the abductor thought that the parents were unworthy, then he might have second thoughts about returning their child.

I wonder exactly what advice the McCanns took about giving press interviews. Assuming for one moment that Madeleine was abducted. The McCanns say they still believe she is alive so presumably in interviews they will be guarded, whereas if it was proved beyond doubt she was dead they would not have to consider an abductor who might be listening and could be themselves.

Does Gerry know the father is not the key in all this according to the above argument. LOL

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

Was just reading what your parents said about the Mcs.

“Their overwhelming feeling that came across was that they just cannot understand why they want to keep making money from their (probably) dead little girl.”

I think that is a good point until you look a little deeper. The press appearances, the fund etc are multi faceted. Firstly, the Mc’s continually reinforce the theory of an abduction, which pushes the implication of more serious speculation than just leaving their kid alone. I personally think this is the main objective. Secondly, the fund will be boosted by their appearance as I am sure some fools will give them the benefit of the doubt and send money. The fund allows them to perpetuate the lie of an abduction. The fund isn’t about finding their daughter but about their defence.

Of course unless you have been following the case ‘on line’ it is quite difficult to see this because of biased reporting from the main media outlets.

Wizard said...

David Payne is back in Portugal!

bath theory said...

Hopefully without thoguhts of 'the pact' and just thoughts that will allow justice to prevail.

bath theory said...

I am assuming he is not there on holiday !!!!!

bath theory said...

Claudia, Happy Easter by the way. Can you e-mail me by the way I something to ask about North Portugal and a prospective holiday my family may well take.

bath theory said...

Full article on Morais website but worth reminding all again

...I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a manner different from me or from the others. I imagined that maybe he had visited Internet sites related to small children. In short, I thought he was interested in internet child porn.

During our holidays I was more attentive at bath time after hearing Dave saying that.

During our vacation in Mallorca, it was the fathers who took care of the children baths. I had the tendency to walk close to the bathroom, if Dave was bathing his children. I remember telling Savio to be careful and to be there, in case it was Dave helping to bathe the children and, in particular, to my daughter E. I was very clear about this, as having heard him disturbed me, and did not trust him to give bath to E. alone...

viv said...

Hiya all

With a better translation from Jo of the email it is easier still to see what happened

referring to Fiona Payne

"her response to the written questionnaires".


This is what perplexed me before, because it is clear this is what DC Marshall is referring to also in relation to Payne:

I read carefully the written statements given by David Payne but was not able to extract any other information besides what is already known.

So, prior to being questioned again on video the TAPAS were required to answer written questionnaires. This is very clever IMO, they can figure out the lies by all the differing versions they give. Also do you remember they had that meeting in the hotel around this time, now we KNOW what they had it for.

It leaves me more convinced than ever how seriously our police view this and there is no way they are ever going to put this case down!!

viv said...

Someone also just pointed out to me on 3As, the mobile phone ping record for DAVID PAYNE ON 3 MAY has been withheld from disclosure, but others are disclosed.


To me this is proof positive that he is a major suspect and I am sure he will be arrested.

Wizard said...

Do we know why Payne is in Portugal?

mandarinn said...

Hi Wizard
Nice to see you.
Are you sure Payne is in Portugal?
Here we have no news about it.

bath theory said...

On tonight from BBC 2,

... Some of the inmates he talks to are mired in self-delusion and defensiveness... can we think of anyone who fits that profile?

HERE IS THE FULL PREVIEW FROM RADIO TIMES WEBSITE

Louis Theroux: A Place for Paedophiles Sunday 19 April
9:00pm - 10:00pm
BBC2
An inmate in California's huge Coalinga mental hospital is overdue for release. But first he needs to be housed. So far, 1,100 properties have been checked and ruled out. One potential landlord had rattlesnakes left on his porch. It's an extreme reaction, but the inmate is, to wider society, a man who is beyond the pale. He is a convicted sex offender, albeit one who has elected to be physically castrated in a last desperate effort to kill his desires. Louis Theroux does an admirable job of trying to get to the heart of this strange, surreal, outwardly calm institution, which effectively "warehouses" men who have already served prison sentences for their sex crimes against children. But it's not easy. It is a dense, many-layered and inevitably disturbing place. Some of the inmates he talks to are mired in self-delusion and defensiveness. Many refuse to take part in the hospital's therapy programme because they see it as an excuse to keep them incarcerated even after they have served their sentences. "There is nobody that can tell what's going on inside my head," says one man with as much defiance as he can muster.

viv said...

Hi all

Well yes, do we know if Payne is really in Portugal, that would be interesting to know!

BT, I just watched Louis Theroux. The men who were not in treatment were arrogant and aggressive, defensive, some in complete and utter denial, very scary people, clearly not safe for release.

Particularly adept at throwing the questions back on Theroux, well I may have an interest in children I do not know about (the ultimate in self denial) but what about you tell me do you have an interest in children. This is a practised method of deflecting the questions from themselves so they do not have to focus on what they really do not like about themselves. I was always very much aware that the most dangerous offenders are the ones who are not prepared to confront their own offending and start to develop some victim empathy. Most of these men just did not want to even consider the victim, they were far too busy just defending themselves.

It is a real problem where can you release these people to, no one wants them in their neighbourhood. And how can you ever trust men just because they say they are better and learn to say everything the therapist wants to hear? It is awful but I think that moving them to a better place after their prison sentence is a solution, it keeps them safe from the public and it keeps the public safe from them!

I often wonder why we do not do something similar here to protect children from these men. Putting them in probation bail hostels on release is no protection to the public - they are just allowed to go out all day every day and no one knows where they are!

xx

Wizard said...

Paedophiles can not be cured of the way they are – their behaviour is just one of the many quirks of nature’s experimentation. Homosexuality could be considered a deviancy of nature as it isn’t natural behaviour, however, if same sex acts are carried out between consenting adults what is the harm and most people see it that way. However sexual acts by adults on children are not tolerated in society and quite rightly so but the predators that carry out these act see nothing wrong in what they do – it is natural to them, it’s the way they are. Being ‘treated’ or imprisoned does not make their behaviour go away it’s the way they are.

Until a solution is found the human rights of the paedophile must be curtailed to allow the human rights of their victims; past, present and future to be assured. No government of course is brave enough to do this and sexual crimes against children will just go on and on and on.

viv said...

Hi Wiz, I do not think I can accept homosexuality as just being another form of deviant sexuality like child abuse.

I happen to think that child abusers are conditioned by factors in their upbringing to need to have power and control over others and they find children sexually attractive because that is such an easy thing to achieve. That is I know a simplistic explanation but I think lies at the heart of why these people are like they are. I do agree it is almost impossible to cure them because it is an inherent and enduring feature of their personality that was developed during childhood and is almost impossible to change when they reach adulthood, the damage is done.

Homosexuality on the other hand I believe is a far more natural thing for humans to be. I do not think they actively choose to become homosexuals it is just part of what they are and I do not accept there is anything deviant about it unless of course children are targeted but I do not think homosexuals are any worse than heterosexuals in relation to the figures on child abuse.

viv said...

Oh and I do agree no government is brave enough to just admit that we need to warehouse sex offenders and others with serious personality disorder because we cannot change them and they will always present a risk of serious harm to the public.

We will always be told are but there are sex offender treatment programmes and now there is the dangerous and severe personality disorder unit. The best either of these can hope to achieve is just some slight moderation in behaviour, it is not possible to make these people safe.

viv said...

BigL brings the tears to my eyes, yet again:-))))
Gerry has such brill qualifications!
fantasy claims insurance
c/o justice hogg
london

dear sir madam

i,d like to make a claim (one of many) on my holiday insurance .
i was in pdl in portugal nearly two years ago with my lovely caring wife ,twins and another girl. one night like every other, we sedated the kids and had a few gulps of our new zealand wine before we went to get pished at the tapas bar with our freinds.
whilst there we were checking on the kids every 5 minutes infact we were checking on them that much the only time i could talk to the wife was when we were passing each other checking (which was handy because i was wanting to pump the quiz mistress but thats another story).
anyhoo at about 9.30 er 9.35 er eh 9.45 or maybe about 10pm i noticed on one of my checks that some swarthy guy had entered my apartment 5a.
f_ck was i shocked with what i saw the windows were jemmied and the shutters broken i was aghast !!!!!!
so i started looking to see if anything valuable missing well after i had a pee.
i inclose the said list
1. 3 gramms of recreational fun powder (35 euros)
2. a blue sports bag (15 euros)
3. an aztec towel (ok it wasn,t mine but what the f_ck everybody does it (10 euros)
4 absolutely no dna left in the flat (where that went i don,t know). ? (euros)
5 a camera with all my latest pictures on holiday in it (230 euros)
6. david payne xxxx knows where he went because he was there when i left. (? euros)
7 mobile phones and watches (which made it difficult to check)(430 euros)
8. aye and a girl we lost called margaret(££££££££££££££££££)

could you please pay the monies for articles 1-7 to my work address as iv,e been f_cked out the house .
and item 8 to the NSU fund ...nah f_ck it just send it to me anyway coz i,m the one spending it .
yours
dr gerald mc cann phd a.r.s.e. h.o.l.e. md

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

Homosexuality is deviant behaviour inasmuch as it falls outside normal sexuality for reproduction of the specious. This is what I meant and I used it as an example as it is the way people are and not necessarily how they choose to be. Many years ago homosexuality was illegal and if you were caught practicing it you were imprisoned. But punishment did not stop it. Of course Viv you can describe deviant behaviour for anything that falls outside the norm so it could be agued that a 60 stone man’s eating habits are deviant as it is not normal to eat such large quantities of food to maintain this incredible weight.

I believe paedophiles are what they are with regard to their sexual preferences in a similar way. They really do not see anything wrong in what they do and will usually defend their actions to the hilt proclaiming their love for children.

Yes it is possible to make a good argument for therapy saying their behaviour comes out of the need for control and may be they have suffered childhood abuse themselves etc but really imo the over riding factor is it is in their make up and not learned behaviour, not a view held by everyone. I could be wrong but if you look at the success of therapy with paedophiles it really doesn’t work in the long term. There has to be another solution.

Di said...

Hi all

Viv thanks for Big L's post I don't know how he keeps coming up with them :o)