6 Apr 2009


Inspector Ricardo Paiva one of the lead investigators in Portugal, getting his hooks into David Payne and just what was he doing at the McCanns apt in between 5 and 7 that evening and hearing from British of the concerns of the Doctors Gaspar as to his sexual innuendo concerning Madeleine to her father Gerald McCann, who would then have been just two years of age.



The American actress assigned to play Kate said it was not up to her say when asked what she thought had happened to Madeleine.

It would appear a 5'7" female has been assigned to play the supposed abductor, no doubt because she does not look the least bit like Gerry McCann. But the e-fit provided by Mr Flack a genuine witness (right) looks exactly like him.

Kate McCann vows never to return to Portuagal as husband Gerry is heckled

Kate and Gerry McCann (Pic:Getty)

It's the place where she last saw her daughter alive, but Kate McCann has declared she will never return to Praia da Luz.

The 40-year-old made the heartbreaking decision as husband Gerry went back to the Portuguese resort for the first time since Madeleine vanished.

Heart surgeon Gerry was heckled by angry villagers who blame the youngster’s disappearance for job losses in the resort after a dip in visitors.

Kate stayed at home with four-year-old twins Sean and Amelie as her husband oversees filming of a reconstruction of the night Madeleine went missing nearly two years ago. A friend said: “Kate is never going to go back. It’s just too hard for her.”

Gerry, who is being trailed by Channel 4 for the documentary, yesterday said prayers for Madeleine, five, at Our Lady of Light church where he and Kate sought solace when she disappeared.

He has also visited the apartment at the Ocean Club resort from where she vanished.

The friend said: “He managed to hold things together but it was still hard for him to be in there.” But some locals turned on the 40-year-old after 21 of the 48 staff were axed at the resort. Bosses claim the number of visitors has fallen since Madeleine disappeared and the recession has made things worse.

One former worker shouted at Gerry: “Go home, leave us alone.” A sacked cleaner said: “We’re fed up with Mr McCann. We want him to disappear for good from this place.”

Fresh appeal posters in the town have been damaged.

The McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “People are entitled to their opinions but all we’re trying to do is find a missing child.

“This trip has not been easy for Gerry.

“Where is the humanity in daubing paint over a picture of Madeleine? Gerry will stop at nothing to find Madeleine or at least discover what happened to her, no matter how difficult and painful it is. He and Kate still believe Madeleine is alive.”

Accompanying Gerry on the trip were two of the friends who were with the family at the time – Jane Tanner and Matthew Oldfield.

In the TV re-enactment, Madeleine will be played by the daughter of a family friend who lives in Portugal.

Kate will be played by American mum-of-three Lisa Donovan, who bears a striking resemblance to the former GP. Lisa, 40, who now lives in the UK, said: “It’s emotional to play someone who’s been through such a heart-wrenching experience.”


viv said...

I think OB would not dream of attending for the same reasons he would go and stand on the steps of the High Court after T7 libel victory over the press, he is a major offender in this situation just like David Payne is, IMO.

Jane and Mat are not major players but they have perverted the course of justice by telling lies which could get them about 3 to 4 years custody and so they see some merit in trying to put on a show of wanting to represent the truth and be helpful. But this is ill-advised as they did not want to go and help the Police and so it is a shallow gesture easily perceived as nothing more than self preservation.

I cannot provide any proof that Gerry, who was the youngest of 5 children had an abusive childhood but I would lay odds that he did. Philomena and John have acted like partners in crime after Gerry's repeated calls to them for help. I think Philomena's conduct in bringing to the British press this suggestion that the PJ believed Kate had "accidentally killed Madeleine" ahead of Gerry even being interviewed is absolutely unforgivable conduct. The Guardian explained that by her actions in doing this she gave the British Press implied authority to start reporting along these lines and that clearly originated from Gerry. Mr Meyer tells us he offered to stop the British Press but Gerry did not want them stopped. In short he wanted this killing theory to be perpetuated. He waited until the Daily Express had been saying that for months before he pounced like some praying mantis to grab the maximum amount of cash. Anyone who can behave as he has, has to have a very severely distorted personality. That is the whole issue with the PCC they stop the press prying into people's lives without any publicity or fuss at all, but that is what Gerry just did not want to do. No wonder Kate will not go with him!

viv said...

Chinagirl wrote:
This kind of rampant, unsubstantiated speculation into the lives of people you don't know is utterly shameful.

So long as we continue to be treated to the rampant and unsubstantiated speculation of the narcissist Gerry McCann, who sniggers with delight at the mention of his media circus, the shocked public actually do have a right to discuss their own opinions on the situation as everyone is doing here.

I think it is natural that people are demonstrating continuing disgust towards Gerry McCann and some degree of sympathy for Kate who is quite obviously forced to continue to put up with him. Her life must be a living hell.

viv said...

paperback wrote:
actually viv I dont have any sympathy with either of them! But I would say that the only people I have sympathy for are the children in any relationship.
But to speculate on the state of their marriage is neither here nor there imo.

I think it is highly relevant to the current situation where for months now we have seen Gerry McCann executing his carefully planned schemes starting with his visit to Portugal in January.

I also think it is worthwhile remembering that British Agencies did start to respond to that by finally answering a number of FOI Act enquiries from the end of January confirming this is very much an ongoing enquiry. In law no British Police force can close their file into the disappearance of a missing Ward of Court.

The fact that Kate is now missing from Gerry's media circus whereas she has always previously taken part demonstrates a big change in the situation. She has more sense than to continue to behave in this way. I think this places into context why Gerry McCann continues to behave as he does, the battle to portray himself as innocent. If he was content that had just got away with it, he could do what he said he wanted to do, get back to normal. He clearly knows full well that he cannot get back to normal and he cannot get away with it. Kate demonstrates a lot more wisdom in how she chooses to handle that situation.

viv said...

paperback wrote:
viv - Kate and Gerry were both there on the night that Madeleine "disappeared" and both left the children alone in the flat for a period of time.
That is a joint responsibility imo. Her wisdom is certainly belated then!

Yes, joint responsibility for neglecting the children but we hear from witnesses she was concerned about that and did not even want to go on the holiday. Presumably because she had an idea of what might happen on this trip arranged by David Payne, Gerry's former best pal who had to confirm at his rogatory that just the week before he had moved away from working with Gerry to a neighbouring County, Derby.

What happened to Madeleine is much more serious than being left alone to cry, not that I am suggesting this is not very serious.

Women are controlled by an abusive and violent male like Gerry McCann become mentally unwell and do what their partner wants them to do, rather than what is best for their children. That is not an excuse for Kate, that is the reality. IMO he is the principal offender and he, IMO, would get far more time in custody when this story finally gets told.

viv said...

paperback wrote:
I actually agree with Stevo and yourself Viv that Gerry McCann is a very "driven" man and seems quite controlling, that has come over very much in the interviews. But I also think that Kate McCann can be quite strong as well and I think I noticed this more when she was "striding" into the
police station in Portugal just before they were made Arguido/Arguida and again later after this status was dropped and they were both at the press conference and she spoke mainly and seemed stronger than him, who seemed to be the cat that soured the milk.

I think its very interesting discussing on here reading how other people see things. Good discussion!

When you go back into the childhood history of people who are very controlling and suffer a clear personality disorder like Gerry McCann you invariably find they were wickedly controlled in their childhood. As they grow up, this is their means of coping.

If Kate did not suffer this kind of abuse in childhood then she has a more normal personality and does not feel the need to control anyone. I think it is clear that she does have a far more pleasant personality than Gerry and was popular and well liked. Witnesses, even on their side, seek to avoid passing much comment about Gerry. If we asked ourselves one simple question, would Madeleine have disappeared if Gerry had not gone on that holiday, I think we see the reality. Kate would have been better able to protect Madeleine from what I think she knew she was the target of.

So, if you look at them coming out of the police station, you see Gerry McCann look as though his whole world is fallling apart. He is seriously into manipulation and control and believes very firmly that in that way he can do as he likes and no one can attack him for it. But he had to realise that day that in fact they can. The PJ were all powerful against him and this started in him the most bitter and hateful campaign of retribution against them.

Kate on the other hand is furious and very upset. She knows that she is not responsible for what happened to Madeleine other than in terms of failing to protect her, which of course the law requires. So she manages to hold her head high with that F you look on her face. This was not me and if you think it was you are idiots!

viv said...

Above just some of my posts on 3As which I think are relevant to this discussion. It is a major set back for Gerry, not to have Kate on board. It also suggests to me we could be far nearer to justice than any of us dare dream we may be!


viv said...

More Gerry sanctioned child abuse, this is just really dreadful and what on earth were this little girl's parents thinking of to allow her to be used in this way?

Telly terror of kidnap "Maddie" Daily Star

By Jerry Lawton
6th April 2009

A TELLY film of the Madeleine McCann drama was halted when the child playing the kidnapped girl collapsed in tears.

She broke down as a TV crew filmed an abductor snatching her.

The child was dressed like the missing youngster in pink pyjamas and a shawl.

The girl, a family friend, started bawling after filming two takes in the freezing midnight air at the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, from which Maddie vanished in 2007, days before her fourth birthday.

The actor playing her abductor tried to calm her by offering her a Pot Noodle but the girl kept crying and film-makers had to halt shooting.

Madeleine’s dad heart consultant Gerry, 40, was watching the on-the-spot reconstruction for the hour-long Channel 4 Cutting Edge documentary, which will be screened on May 7. He had agreed to make a heart-tugging journey back to the scene of the crime to ensure telly producers got it right.

An onlooker said the scene was chilling. "It must have been almost unbearable for Gerry to watch," he added.

"The girl playing Madeleine started screaming and crying.

"In the end they took the decision to stop filming after two takes."

Hours after the filming, Gerry said prayers for his daughter at the nearby church where he and wife Kate, 41, sought solace when she disappeared.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/75 ... p-Maddie-/

viv said...

"THEY WANT TO TRANSMIT LIES TO THE WORLD (Gonçalo Amaral, Ex-Coordinator from Polícia Judiciária)

Correio da Manhã – PJ wanted to do a reconstruction about Maddie’s disappearance. The couple McCann and friends have not accepted. What importance has this reconstruction for the media, at the moment?

Gonçalo Amaral – None. It can just be interesting in order the lies these gentlemen want to transmit the world, be duly noted. It’s just one more marketing operation.

- PJ and the Public Prosecution are being joked?

- Yes, in my opinion. It’s regrettable the Portuguese authorities couldn’t have obliged them to come to Portugal for a judicial reconstruction.

- Just two of the friends are integrating the reconstruction. Are the others not important to find out the true?

- It would be interesting to know, what’s the reason why David Payne doesn’t take part in the reconstruction. He could explain how much time did he spend giving bath to the children and at what time. They’re not interested to explain it.

viv said...

seems like Goncalo is so angry now he is minded to drop a bit more out that he has otherwise refused to mention..David Payne bathing the children, a truly repugnant thought!

viv said...

Maybe this will persuade Bath Theory to pop in and see us again, as it becomes apparent he was maybe right all along, well about something happening around bathtime anyway.

viv said...

Full article from C de M

http://www.correiomanha.pt/Noticia.aspx ... 979C765FC5
CdM 05 April 2009 - 00h30

Praia da Luz: Ocean Club will dismiss employees
Animated re-enactment
On the day when Gerry McCann came to Portugal to record the private re-enactment about what happened to her daughter Maddie on May 3rd, 2007, 21 employees from the Ocean Club, the resort from where the four year old girl disappeared, were fired. Justification, apart from the effects of global crisis: "As a result of the Maddie McCann unfortunate event" that affected forever the image of the resort of Praia da Luz and departed from there to tourism.

Alongside these issues, and although officially both he and the group of friends have not cooperated with police in a reconstruction of what happened that night, it was a smiling Gerry who presented yesterday in Praia da Luz - the recording of a documentary about the day when her daughter mysteriously disappeared.

In the day on which this media spectacle occurred, the company Greentrust, which manages the resort, put forward a claim for collective dismissal, which initially includes 21 of the 48 workers. The note of dismissal states that the company's financial problems are serious and "the forecast for the year 2009 make the company unviable." The main fault is attributed to the bad publicity caused by the Maddie case. According to the company, "the bad results of 2007 originated in the McCann case."

In May 2007, the company had 130 employees. The following year several were released and only 60 remained. This year there were 48 and, with this collective dismissal, only 27 remain, but according with the same source they "are also at risk."

"I have family and children to feed and I am now out of work. We ask the couple McCann to leave us alone, please," said one of the CM staff.

The re-enactment, produced for the British channel 'Channel 4', is being recorded with 15 actors. One is Maddie, whose role is played by a child daughter of a couple friend of Gerry and Kate, "revealed to journalists the spokesman of the couple, Clarence Mitchell.

In addition to Maddie, the other actors give life to nine friends of the couple, known as' Tapas 9 ', the suspect in an alleged kidnapping, tourists and residents in Praia da Luz and employees of the Ocean Club.

"Go home" and "let us live in peace" were some of the phrases that some residents in Praia da Luz yelled at Gerry and the remaining team that is producing the documentary, which will be broadcast around the world. "What are they doing here? When they should assist the police they did not and now they are doing this show to further ruin our lives," said to CM an angry resident who did not want to be identified, for fear of reprisals because it believes that the couple "has much power."

The Policia Judiciaria wanted to do a reconstitution of the night of the disappearance twice, but in no time the couple and friends were available. Clarence Mitchell, the spokesman of the couple, explained that the re-enactment was not made sooner because "the police did not accept it to be broadcasted."

Now, after the investigation has been terminated, the couple believes: "This documentary could generate new information that will help us find Madeleine," Mitchell said.

The re-enactment will be available on the site http://www.findmadeleine, and the transmission of the Channel 4 documentary to be negotiated with several European countries, including Portugal.

"THEY WANT TO TRANSMIT LIES TO THE WORLD" (Gonçalo Amaral, former coordinator of the POLICIA JUDICIARIA)

CdM - The PJ want to make a re-enactment of the disappearance of Maddie. The McCann couple and their friends did not accept. What importance does it have now this mediatic re-enactment?

Gonçalo Amaral - None. It may only be interesting because the lies they want to convey to the world will be registered. It’s just another marketing operation.

CdM- Is the Policia Judiciaria and Public Prosecution Service being ‘taken / made fools’?

GA- In my opinion, yes. It is regrettable that the Portuguese authorities have been unable to compel these gentlemen to come to Portugal to make a re-enactment in order to discover the truth.

CdM- Only two of the friends are taking part on the re-enactment. The others are not important to discover the truth?

GA- It would be interesting to know why Mr. David Payne is not part of re-enactment. He could explain how much he took to bath the children and at what time. They are not interested in explaining that.


The production of the documentary contracted the security services of four officers of GNR. Yesterday two officers were in place until 18:00. They were replaced by a new team, which accompanied the recordings until midnight.

Two days of filming
The filming will take place over two days. Gerry McCann was interviewed yesterday and scenes were filmed in the Tapas restaurant where the couple dined on the night of the disappearance of her daughter. Today, filming will take place in the church in Praia da Luz

One of the scenes recorded yesterday involved a man who a friend of the couple, Jane Turner, says it has seen the passing of a child placed in the night that Maddie disappeared from the apartment.


The Portuguese, British Robert Murat, who was one of the arguidos in the case on suspicions of connection to a kidnapping, the film does not enter the re-enactment, said the spokesman Clarence Mitchell.

Maddie's father, Gerry McCann, did not take part in the filming, but was a team consultant, along with Jane Tanner and Matthew Oldfield, friends who vacationed with the couple.

Kate McCann, the mother of the missing girl, "is not yet ready to return to Portugal", according to what Clarence Mitchell, the spokesman of the couple said to journalists.

Rui Pando Gomes

viv said...

Apparently Goncalo's documentary is due to be aired on 3 May, good timing!


viv said...

There is something rather strange about Fr Hubbard just turning up from Canada imo, now he even loans his daughter out to be abused!

06 April 2009 - 00h30

Praia da Luz: Portuguese parish priest, José Pacheco did not want, Gerry in his church

'Maddie' is the daughter of English priest

The little actress who plays the role of Maddie in rebuilding what has been recorded in the last two days, in Praia da Luz, is the daughter of the English priest who was a friend of Gerry and Kate after the mysterious disappearance of the daughter of the couple on the night of 3 May 2007.

Found that the CM, the Anglican pastor Haynes Hubbard has maintained regular contact with the couple and was available to 'borrow' a child for the documentary produced for the British Channel Channel 4. The wife of the pastor is extra to reconstruct that, according to the producer, "is focusing on testimonies of suspected sightings."

The recordings were followed by Gerry and the friends Matthew Oldfield and Jane Turner.

In contrast to Hubbard, the Portugueit se priest, José Pacheco, reported that did not want Gerry in the Mass yesterday in the local church, forcing the father of Maddie to go to the temple before 09:00.

Who did not see also welcome the arrival of Gerry the Praia da Luz were the workers of the Ocean Club. "If the fault of the dismissal of the case Maddie is how the company gives free entry to Mr Gerry to shoot whatever he want in the village?" Asks one official.

viv said...

It is a very extraordinary thing when a Priest denies someone entry to the church, but that is what Fr Pachecho has just done. I think he knows full well just how evil Gerry is and for that reason is doing something that a Priest would not normally dream of doing, but for Gerry and what he has personally cost Fr Pachecho in the most awful trauma, he makes an exception.

Gerry himself admitted he was not religious. He was not exactly religious when he abused the church with the cameras in tow on Maddie's birthday and laughed like he just heard a good joke. If I was Fr Pachecho that alone would have been enough, but I suspect he knows a lot more than that.

viv said...

video of the sick little bit of theatre


viv said...

great post!

Post subject: Re: kate mcann please read
New postPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:39 pm
Been Cautioned

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:24 pm
Posts: 312
I think Kate was a loving, good mother.
Yes, she neglected the kids, but what if it was Gerrys idea to leave them, and what he says has to happen happens.(if they were really left unsupervised that is)
Something happened that night,, whatever it was, how Maddie allegedly died, Kate, then had to play a role of a mother of a missing child. But the reason she comes over so cold on TV is because she is trying to act out that role, when its really not going on in her mind. She cannot let people see that she is a grieving mother, even though her heart must be breaking and she wants a proper burial for madeliene. This is not the real Kate Mccann we are seeing. She cannot let on, she has had to play this role each day of her life for nearly two years, she must be close to breaking point.
IMO the fund and cover up was Gerrys idea, she was probably manipulated into thinking it was a good idea by him. Look at the earlier footage, kate was a controlled wreck, the role has just got easier to play, but the pain gets harder, imo.
She can see no way out now.
But, i would say to her, do the right thing, if not for maddy or the twins, for yourself, you cannot go on like this. Tell the truth, take the rap, (if it was you) do the time (if any) The public will then forgive and forget eventually, because right now Madeliene is a mystery, they want to know what happened to her. The public will move on if they know the truth. Kate can then get on with her life and grieve like she should have done two years ago.
I wouldnt judge her, because I dont know what circumstances she was under at the time.
I would forgive her and move on myself.

Wizard said...

Morning All,

Well I’ve just been watching Portuguese TV1’s coverage of the staging ohps…reconstruction of events two years ago. Joana Morias blog.

I see bundleman is played by a 5.7” woman not so much looking like Gerry anymore but Kate with a wig on.

The actress that plays Kate in American. The McCanns are English, the production company British but an American actress is used – I can only speculate why this would be.

Last but not least is the Pink PR man and his explanation for this current production which imo defies logic. He says, concerning the previous reconstruction that the McCanns et al refuse to return for:

“It was not for TV; not for broadcast; only for the police.”

Well, well, only for the police they can’t have that then. This is supposed to be a normal response to a police request is it? CM says this as the most normal thing to do and infers by his tone that most others would do the same. Incredible!!

I was reading the production company were donating £10,000 to the Fund but Clarence denies this saying no fee was paid to the family or fund, only expenses were paid.

viv said...

hiya wiz

It does make you wonder whether Gerry and co are still tryng to pass subliminal messages about the errant Kate who will not go back and help them. How utterly absurd to use a little woman to play this part, I bet she struggled carrying this poor weeping child.

Gerry has always had the involvement of people from the States, I am sure we can both speculate why that is, including some pretty gobby bloggers!

As for the ridiculous excuse well we did not want to help the police we wanted it on the telly, well how about wanting to help Madeleine in a timely fashion not two years later. We hardly need them to tell us they do what they want to do, not what the police suggest. We even heard how they tried to get the High Court family division to order the police to hand the file over. Perhaps even barmier how they wanted to set out their case of being innocent of any criminal charges to the bloody Prime Minister. I just about heard everything that does NOT happen in a legal case from this bunch. They clearly think money buys them anything!

I have also heard a lot of pathetic excuses from losing litigants and a lot of anti police, from criminals.

The Police will well and truly give Gerry McCann what for, and he knows it, that is why he cannot stop his vile and abusive behaviour causing so many people the most awful upset. Including just innocent Portuguese people who want to have a happy life and earn a living just like they did before that sick man entered their lovely place. I feel deeply ashamed that he could tarnish Britain in such a comprehensive way!

bath theory said...

I told you the bath time is very important to this story

bath theory said...

I too am ashamed by the actions of a media in this country that has tried to taint Portugal and its people and also to follow the angle pushed by the McCann's. They have withheld statements and evidence by refusing to answer questions and statistically they are the most likely to have been involved. One only has to see the picture of them leaving church little more than a week after Madeleine disappeared to reflect on what may have happened that week and night.

bath theory said...

I agree with the sentiment and words written earlier in this paragraph.

...Something happened that night, whatever it was, how Maddie allegedly died, Kate, then had to play a role of a mother of a missing child. But the reason she comes over so cold on TV is because she is trying to act out that role, when its really not going on in her mind. She cannot let people see that she is a grieving mother, even though her heart must be breaking and she wants a proper burial for madeliene...

As I said earlier this year I feel they will be in court before Xmas. The walls are closing in.

viv said...

THIS IS THE PEAK OF SHAMELESSNESS..VERY WELL PUT. We are even asked to believe that sniggering McCann "almost wept". There is only one thing that reduces Gerry to that state, The Police, roll on!

6 April 2009
Maddie’s father “sad” about people’s jeering


Gerry McCann was at the church in Luz yesterday, before Sunday mass, and didn’t escape people’s jeering. The father of the missing girl was disturbed by the Algarvians’ animosity. And returned to England.

by José Manuel Oliveira

“I’m sad, but not angry.” According to what DN was able to establish, this was one of Gerry McCann’s reactions for those who accompanied him during the filming for a documentary for English television channel ‘Channel Four’, about the reconstitution, in his own version, of the disappearance of his daughter Madeleine, on the night of the 3rd of May 2007, from the ‘The Ocean Club’ resort in Praia da Luz (Lagos), where the family spent their holidays, after being confronted, on Saturday, with jeering by some members of the public that gathered there, shouting “go home!”.

“After that happened, Gerry changed his posture, showing himself more silent and reserved. After all, he lost a daughter there and was jeered on top of that. Even in 2007, there were already scenes with persons who asked him and his wife, Kate, why they wouldn’t leave. Now, when he returned to the bedroom where Maddie slept with her twin siblings that night and even during other filming at the Ocean Club, he almost wept, feeling very emotional upon remembering what happened two years ago”, DN was told by one of those who followed Maddie’s father on his return to the Algarve for one of the campaigns that are part of the second anniversary of the disappearance of the British child.

As scheduled, Gerry McCann returned to England yesterday, after having been at the church in Luz, in the morning, between 8 and 8.45 a.m., in the company of Anglican priest Haynes Hubbard, his friend, thus anticipating the presence of journalists (and another possible popular contestation), that had been informed that Maddie’s father would attend mass at 9.30 a.m. “It was because of you that Gerry didn’t attend mass, as it might disturb the community’s environment. He doesn’t want any more photos or filming”, the McCann couple’s spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, justified. Concerning the jeering by those who consider Maddie’s parents are implicated in her disappearance, on the day before, the family’s representative said that “there are persons who think that way, but the vast majority of the Portuguese still supports the McCanns”.

At the end of mass, most of the members of the public refuse to speak to the journalists. “No, thank you. I’m celebrating Palm Sunday”, a woman replies. Another one stops and observes: “Maddie? She’s gone. It makes no sense whatsoever for her father to return to Praia da Luz now”.

Jerónimo Veiga, unable to contain his feeling of revolt, told DN that “the filming with Gerry McCann was nothing but a clown act in this village, where tourism, which is mainly English, is disappearing because of that couple, who think about nothing but the media spotlight and money. Maddie’s destiny is their secret and of their friends who were with them on the night that the child disappeared”. In this resident’s opinion, “this is the peak of shamelessness. Because of the filming, even two members of the GNR had to stand guard at the Ocean Club. And this in a village where residents and tourists have to be assured of their safety”.

source: Diário de Notícias, 06.04.2009

by astro

viv said...

BT !! How lovely to hear from you again my old friend, I was just commenting on 3 As that you posted on my blog and I always found your views intelligent and interesting. One of the posters remembered you from the DE and the bashing you used to get from the Pros!

Yes you did always say it had something to do with bathtime and now it most certainly looks like you are right, as Goncalo, clearly angered, lets a bit more slip.

I certainly agree, Kate has just been forced to play act but inside her heart is breaking.

I also share your confidence the walls are closing and it is possible they could be in court before the end of the year. But I think this case will be vast and complicated it may take longer than that to prepare for trial once they are actually charged. There is also the issue of getting important Pt witnesses over here and possibly other nationalities too, arranging interpreters etc. It will cost the taxpayer millions but I do not think anyone will mind that!


and once again, great to see you back.

hope4truth said...


Well I think the reconstruction may be a huge mistake when people are stood in the places they say they were on 3rd May it will show how JT could not have passed GM and JW without being seen...

Also have you read the below???

If a child who is playing the part of an abducted child can break down and cry (and the sick bastards kept trying to film her) why did Madeleine not cry when she was taken??? If she was sedated and it was obvious the twins were sedated as well that night (as they never woke up through all the chaos)...

Wouldent any responsible parent insist that the twins go for a hospital check up? I know I would want to make sure they had not been poisoned or sexually abused in any way???

Maybe Madeleine was a deep sleeper but the fact no one sought medical attention for twins who were unconcious (and they had been awake earlyish the rest of the holiday) once again shows this is odd... See below xxx

Telly terror of kidnap "Maddie" Daily Star

By Jerry Lawton
6th April 2009

A TELLY film of the Madeleine McCann drama was halted when the child playing the kidnapped girl collapsed in tears.

She broke down as a TV crew filmed an abductor snatching her.

The child was dressed like the missing youngster in pink pyjamas and a shawl.

The girl, a family friend, started bawling after filming two takes in the freezing midnight air at the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, from which Maddie vanished in 2007, days before her fourth birthday.

The actor playing her abductor tried to calm her by offering her a Pot Noodle but the girl kept crying and film-makers had to halt shooting.

Madeleine’s dad heart consultant Gerry, 40, was watching the on-the-spot reconstruction for the hour-long Channel 4 Cutting Edge documentary, which will be screened on May 7. He had agreed to make a heart-tugging journey back to the scene of the crime to ensure telly producers got it right.

An onlooker said the scene was chilling. "It must have been almost unbearable for Gerry to watch," he added.

"The girl playing Madeleine started screaming and crying.

"In the end they took the decision to stop filming after two takes."

Hours after the filming, Gerry said prayers for his daughter at the nearby church where he and wife Kate, 41, sought solace when she disappeared.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/75 ... p-Maddie-/

Do you think it may finaly have hit Gerry if he had not neglected his children to go to the bar Madeleine would not have been taken????

I am so pleased I dont have a Dad who would wait two years before doing a reconstruction especialy after refusing to do one for the police...

Di said...

Hi All

Thanks for posting all the interesting information coming out of Portugal.

Why Gerry & Clarence thought they would be welcomed with open arms is beyond me, and that poor child having to play the part of Madeleine and being so upset is just awful.

Thank goodness Father Pacheco had the sense not to allow the media circus into his church, that must have been a blow to Gerry.

I do hope like the rest of you, that this is the beginning of the end and finally peace for Madeleine.

BT great to see you.

I agree, you have always said the bath was an important part in the disappearance of Madeleine and nothing has ever swayed you from this theory.

viv said...

Hiya Hope

I entirely agree the distress of this little child when being carried by a stranger only serves to illustrate that is not what happened to Madeleine. She was either dead or heavily drugged and it was no stranger who carried her, it was one who could simply walk in the apt and pick her up with no fear about leaving forensic trace, because his traces were already there. This conduct and forthcoming documentary will serve as a lesson to Gerry McCann that Madeleine is on the side of the angels and he cannot pervert the course of justice for her, or persuade the public to his sick point of view. Kate has done the sensible thing and no doubt told him to get lost. But even so, we have the usual "family members" no doubt his family as usual, saying is either not ready yet (Clarence) or she just cannot face ever going back. I am very doubtful that Kate has given any authority to make any comment whatsoever and am convinced she will now be extremely unwell, not that her husband cares about that or the welfare of his twins.

viv said...

Hiya Di

I think the reaction of the locals and of course Fr Pachecho was entirely predictable to rational and reasonable people. But I get the distinct impression when Gerry and The Pink Twit get their plotting heads on all common sense flies out of the window, they get so carried it with their grandiose and ridiculous schemes.

Well done Father Pachecho!

We Honour you!!


bath theory said...

One further question for you Kate McCann or anyone in the Healy family. It has always been my understanding that the bath was of upmost importance to events on that holiday and on that night. Given what Mr Amaral has now stated openly,who bathed the children that week? and who bathed them the night that Madeleine went missing? I feel it is time to allow the truth under the eyes of the God you claim to believe in to be told. Cape Dieum.

hope4truth said...

If Kate is unwilling to keep up the pretence then now is the best chance she has of telling all.

I have no way of knowing if she is the victim of domestic violence or if she is suffering from Post Natal Depresion but there are a lot of people myself included that would feel despratley sorry for her if she had been backed into a corner and made to go along with this...

One of the reasons I still cant believe in an abduction is because she has done nothing to search for her child she has not insisted she go back when the police asked her to return for a reconstruction and refusing to answer a single question would be beyond cruel if Madeleine was still "Findable"...

So to me it say's she knows there is nothing she can do to find her and she has just gone along with everything else...

Mrs Healy should taket this oportunity to help her daughter and her grandchildren living with a cloud over your head is not living and the twins need to know their Mum is ok and will never let them come to any harm...

I have been very critical of Kate and still am in many ways but I do get very frustrated with people who will not help themselves especialy when children are involved. If she is not well then her Mum needs to help her be strong so the whole family can move on and focus on the Twins.

People will help Kate they just have to be given the oportunity to do so...

Wizard said...

I’ve just been reading the London Metro – I copy an article from it below for no better reason than I like the headline.

6th April 09 - Metro

You’re not wanted here, McCann told

The father of missing Madeleine McCann was yesterday told to go home by angry residents during a fresh visit to Portugal.
Gerry McCann, 40, sparked criticism after returning to the Portug¬uese resort to launch a fresh TV appeal and film a documentary.
But his arrival coincided with the loss of 21 staff at the Ocean Club complex, which management blamed on the 'Maddie effect'.
'We don't want to be uncharitable but we had more than our fair share of bad publicity when little Madeleine went missing,' said one bar owner at the resort.
'This new appeal just stirs up unpleasant memories and we can't see it leading anywhere,' he added.
Madeleine McCann, of Rothley, Leicestershire, went missing on May 3, 2007, during a family holiday at the resort of Praia da Luz. She would now be aged five. A police inquiry came to nothing and has since been closed.

Last week, posters appealing for information were torn down at the resort and the flat in which the family stayed was vandalised.
The Find Madeleine Fund, which arranged the international TV app¬eal, said residents had never been asked about what they saw.
A Cutting Edge documentary will be shown next month on Channel 4.

viv said...

Morning guys, Hope I think it will turn out that we should have a lot of sympathy for Kate and thanks for such a great post. I really do hope her mum took the opportunity to see her whilst that thing was in Portugal.

Wiz, I too like the title of your article, I do not think this man is wanted wherever he goes!

BT, I think we should be dwelling on your theory. There are so many disparate reports that Payne did go to that apt and see the children that evening at times ranging from 5 pm through to 7 pm. So one thing we can take as read, he did go there and it would have been around the childrens bath time. Ricardo Paiva seems to be the lead investigator under Amaral who was really getting his hooks into Payne, I though it would be helpful to once again reproduce this below for us to have a look at and I am putting a picture of Ricardo up alongside Payne from Pamalam's excellent blog which I often turn to for all the useful stuff!

Processos Volume XIII, Pages 3909-3915

To: Ricard Paiva
From: DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL
Ref: David Payne
Date: October 24, 2007

Leicester Police Constabulary


As requested, appended are the statements of Arul and Katherina Gaspar.

I read with curiosity the written statements given by David Payne but was not able to extricate any other information besides what is already known. He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry. He did not indicate the motive for being there or what he was doing. He also cannot indicate how long he stayed.

When asked with whom he was on the afternoon of May 3rd, he declares that this information was already offered to the police and cannot remember if anyone else was there.

He does not remember what he was wearing that afternoon.

He took part in the searches, having carried out most of them alone. He was at times accompanied by Matthew Oldfield.

He did not partake in the searches realized on the 4th of May, because, on this day, he spent to majority of time in the police headquarters.

For many questions, he does not give a complete response, affirming simply that he has already given this information to the Portuguese police in his declarations.

I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her depositions, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to.

Her responses to the questions are vague. She continued to respond to questions with ?they conform with my earlier deposition? or some similar statement.

Last Name: GASPAR
Age: +18
Date of Birth:
Postal Code:
Telephone no.:
Date of Testimony: 16/05/2007
Number of Pages: 8

I give this declaration in relation to the McCANN family who are currently in Portugal. The McCANN family is composed of Gerry McCANN, his wife, Kate McCANN and their three children, Madeleine, age 4, and Sean and Amelie, who are twins and 3 years of age.

As is abundantly clear, Madeleine is not with her family presently, and has been missing for the last two weeks.

I will begin by explaining that I am married to Savio Gaspar and that we have two daughters. ***** is almost 3 and ***** is now one year old. I have been married to Savio for 11 years. I am a general practitioner as is my husband. I met my husband when we were (page 1) working together in Exeter, around 14 years ago.

In order to explain how we know the McCANN family, I would like to state that my husband knows Kate as they both attended Dundee University between 1987 and 1992. At that time, she was Kate HEALY. I met Kate and Gerry at their wedding, in 1998, in Liverpool. Both Savio and I went to the wedding. As Savio was Kate?s friend, we were invited to the event.

From what I know, Savio did not know Gerry before the wedding. After this time, we became friends and about three times we spent weekend vacations together. I would say that we are intimate friends of Gerry and Kate.

I remember that in 2002 or 2003, Savio and I spent the weekend with Gerry and Kate in Devon. We maintained contact with one another via telephone.

In 2002/2003 Savio and I lived Birmingham and the McCANNS in Leicester.

In September of 2005, Savio, myself and ****, who at the time was 1 and a half years old, spent our holidays abroad, in Mallorca. We went (page 2) on holidays with Kate, Gerry, and Madeleine, who should have been around 21/2 years old, and the twins, who were only months old. I remember that I was pregnant with ****.

On those holidays we also met Gerry and Kate?s friends.

There was a couple, whose names were Dave and Fiona, and whose family name was PAYNE, I think. I believe that they were married and had one daughter, 1 year old, called ****. I remember that on these holidays, Fiona was pregnant.

There was another couple, whose names were *** and ***, and whose family name I cannot remember who were also on holiday with us. They had two boys, 1 and 3 years old, whose names I do not remember. I did not know these two families until the holidays together. As I recall, I think that David organised the holidays and we all stayed together in a big house in Mallorca.

We spend a week on holidays, however, the McCANN family, and the PAYNE family stayed for two weeks. I think that **** and ****, and their two children, also stayed for only one week.

Two or three days passed in Mallorca where we relaxed (Page 3) with our children. Possibly around the fourth or fifth day abroad, I remember an incident that stayed with me. I tell this in this way, and afterwards I have thought many times about the incident that I am about to describe.

One night, on holidays, the adults?the couple aforementioned?were on a patio on the side of the house were we lodged. We had been eating and drinking.

I was seated between David and Gerry who were both speaking about Madeleine. I don?t remember the conversation in its entirety, but id did appear they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember David telling Gerry something like ?she? (referring to Madeleine) ?would she do this?.

Upon mentioning ?this?, David was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it inside and outside his mouth, and with the other hand encircled his breast in a gyrating fashion over his shirt. This was done in a provocative manner and carried an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was doing.

I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to gauge their reactions. I looked around (page 4) as is saying ?did someone else hear that, or was it just me?. Silence registered in all the conversations and after, we all began conversing again.

I never spoke to anyone about this, but always felt that it was very strange and not something that should be discussed or said.

Besides this, I remember that David once again did the same thing. When I refer to this, I want to clarify that it was during a conversation in which he was talking about an imaginary situation. I do not know of what. I believe that he was talking about his own daughter, Lily, although I cannot be certain. He put one of his fingers in his mouth and slide it in and out, and with the other hand, drew a circle around his breast in a sexually provocative way. I believe that he was referring to what Lily would do.

I believe that he did this later, during the holidays, but I cannot be sure. The last time, besides this, when I was with David and Fiona was several weeks after the holidays, when Savio and I were at a restaurant with Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona.

I am certain that he said or that he repeated the same gestures aforementioned, but it could have occurred in a restaurant in Leicester, however (page five) I believe that it was later in Mallorca. When I heard Dave asking is ?she did this? a second time, I took it more seriously.

I remember questioning whether looked at my children or the others in a different way. I imagined that he maybe visited Internet sites related to small children. I thought that he may be interested in child pornography on the Internet.

During our holidays I was more attentive at bath time after hearing Dave saying this.
During our vacation in Mallorca, it was the parents who bathed the children. I had the tendency to walk close to the bathroom, if David was bathing his children. I remember telling Savio to be careful when he was there, in case Dave was helping bathe the children and, in particular, my daughter. I was very clear about this, as having heard him disturbed me, and did not trust him bathing **** alone.

When I heard Dave say that a second time, this reinforced what I already though in relation to his thoughts about little girls. During our stay in Mallorca, Dave and his wife, Fiona, accompanied by this daughter Lilly, took Madeleine (page 6) with them to spend the day together, and to give Kate and Gerry a bit of rest with the twins. At stating this, it is not that I was reoccupied with Madeleine?s safety, as she was also with Fiona and Lilly, along with Dave.

As already referred to, I was only with Dave and Fiona on one occasion, after Mallorca. And I have not spoken to them since this time. In these last years, we have seen each other, along with the McCANNS, on occasion. These occasions coincide with the children?s birthdays?a time when we get together.

The first time I hear the terrible news regarding the disappearance of Madeleine from the radio, my thoughts went immediately to Dave. I asked Savio if Dave was also on holidays with the McCANNs in Portugal but he did not know.

I watched TV to catch the overage of the notices and found that Dave was there. I saw him on television in the first days after the disappearance. At that, I believed that he was on holidays with the McCANNs in Portugal. Today, Thursday, the 16th of May, 2007, at 15H40, I gave DC Brewer a page containing 2 photographic images. I am going to reference these images as (ref KZG/1) (probably element) that may (page seven) be presented with my approval, if necessary. These photographs were taken during out holidays in Mallorca. In the photographs, Dave is wearing a white t-shirt and the woman in the photograph is his wife Fiona. The man that is holding the cup of wine in the photograph is *****. These photographs were taken whilst we were in Mallorca.


Volume XIII TOC, pgs. 3892 to 3601
3816 to 3920?Witness statement of Arul Savio Gaspar 2007.05.16


Name: Arul Savio Gaspar

Date of statement: 16-05-2007

This statement was made in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

I currently work as a GP at Saint Clements Surgery, Birmingham, where I have been employed for the last nine years.

Madeleine is the daughter of Kate and Gerry McCann and we are friends of the family.

I have known Kate since 1987, when we met at Dundee Medical School, and became friends. We have remained in touch all this time and meet up 3 or 4 times a year, we often talk on the phone or email each other.

When we first became friends in 1987 she was still known as Kate Healy, this was the case until she married Gerry at the end of 1990s. Kate and I completed our medical degrees in 1992, when we each carried on with our lives, once we had begun our careers.

After I finished my degree I began my career in Exeter, and I think Kate went to Glasgow.

I only met up with Kate again in 1997 or 1998. At that moment I was married to Katherina, we had both been invited to attend Kate and Gerry?s wedding.

After their wedding we lost contact and I think they went to New Zealand.

We only met up again in 2001 in Birmingham.

The couple visited us in the house where we then living, in ******, and this was the first time I talked to Gerry.

I think that at the time Kate and Gerry were living in Queeniborough, Leicestershire.

From 2001 and 2005 we were in regular contact and often visited each other?s homes.

We planned holidays for the first week of September 2005 in Majorca, Spain, together with three other couples including Kate and Gerry. We did not know the other two couples, they were friends of Kate and Gerry?s, we had never met them before.

We all had children.

When we went on this holiday we had one daughter, ****** aged 18 months.

Kate and Gerry had 3 children, Madeleine almost two and the twins who were six months old.

The other couples were Fiona and David Payne and their daughter Lily who was one year old and **** and **** who had two boys aged three and one. I do not remember **** and *** surname nor the names of their children.

Katherine and I had booked the holiday for one week and the other two couples had booked for two weeks. We stayed together in a large villa.

We all arrived at the villa separately.

During the period we stayed at the villa I remember a gesture made by David Payne.

I do not remember the context of the conversation between David and Gerry, but I do remember seeing David use his left index finger to rub his nipple, using circular movements, whilst he put his right index finger into his mouth, touching his tongue. This happened during a meal, at the end of the day in the villa, I do not remember the time or the date, but we would usually dine between 19.30 and 21.00 every day. I think this happened in the middle of the holiday.

I remember that when I saw this gesture I immediately thought it to be in very bad taste, independently of the context of the conversation they were having. We were sitting around a white plastic table in the villa. I don?t know if anyone else saw the gesture, apart from my wife Katherina. After this gesture, we did not notice any others and as far as I know, the gesture was not repeated.

We never commented on this gesture during the rest of the holiday and I thought no more about it.

I can describe Dave as a Caucasian male 1.78 m tall, and of a medium complexion. He had brown hair and used glasses/contact lenses depending on the circumstances.

I can say that Dave was a pleasant person. I do not remember him having any unusual characteristics.

During the holidays Dave never behaved in an inappropriate manner with Madeleine or with any of the other children. Dave was popular with the children and I took this to be because he was a close friend to the family.

I never distrusted Dave. After the holidays there was one occasion when we were with Kate and Gerry and Fiona and Dave were also present.

That was in a restaurant in Leicester in 2005. I do not remember the name of the restaurant.

We had a pleasant evening, just the three couples without the children.

I do not remember Dave having behaved inappropriately on this occasion. We have not spoken to Dave or Fiona since December 2005, only due to their being friends of Kate and Gerry, not for any other reason.

The last time I saw Kate, Gerry, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie was in March 2007 when they came to our house for the first birthday celebration of my daughter *****. On the morning of 4th May Katherine saw the news about Madeleine on television. We were very shocked and worried given that they were close friends.

It was during the days following the news of the abduction that we discovered that Fiona and David Payne were also with them in Portugal.

It was at this moment that Katherina showed concern at the gesture made by Dave in Majorca in 2005. Katherina remembered that when Dave made the gesture he was referring to Madeleine.

I only remember that Katherina saw the gesture at the time, I had forgotten the episode, it was never the subject of conversation.

At the time I did not feel the gesture was referring to Madeleine.

It is my wish that the police are aware of my preoccupation with the gesture made by David Payne.
Signed. .

viv said...

The above email to Inspector Paiva from DC Marshall was sent on 24 October after Goncalo had been removed from the case. I do think his removal was to do with the investigation moving on into sexual abuse.

When you look at this extract it seems to read to me that DC Marshall has again interrogated David Payne in the UK during October, what do you think. He says how David Payne does not want to answer saying I have already told the Portuguese Police. Earlier in the email DC Marshall also refers to "written statements" of David Payne. I think he is getting the hassle from the police far more than we realise! But I still believe that Russell O'Brien and Gerry are equally getting it! I am going to say again, this is a situation I believe of three perverts and the women know what they are.


He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry. He did not indicate the motive for being there or what he was doing. He also cannot indicate how long he stayed.

When asked with whom he was on the afternoon of May 3rd, he declares that this information was already offered to the police and cannot remember if anyone else was there.

He does not remember what he was wearing that afternoon.

He took part in the searches, having carried out most of them alone. He was at times accompanied by Matthew Oldfield.

He did not partake in the searches realized on the 4th of May, because, on this day, he spent to majority of time in the police headquarters.

For many questions, he does not give a complete response, affirming simply that he has already given this information to the Portuguese police in his declarations.

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

Thank you for the Gaspar’s testimonies. I haven’t read them in such detail before and they certainly give rise for concern.

Payne’s antics at best could be seen in bad taste or at worse the act of a pervert. If an accident did occur to Madeleine this could well be the reason why it was necessary to conceal what had really happened.

The Gaspar’s must have had a very good reason for reporting something potentially so serious - so clearly they were very worried. It is interesting to note one of Katerina Gaspar's first reactions when hearing that Madeleine had gone missing was to see if David Payne was on holiday with the McCanns. I think that speaks volumes.

I just wonder how well this aspect of the case was investigated.

bath theory said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bath theory said...


...David was the last non-family member to positively see Madeleine alive in Praia de Luz at 6.30pm that evening, when he went to check on her and Kate while Gerry McCann played tennis...

A small reminder here of this point but given what Amaral has now stated the real question is what game was David Payne playing?

Only the children of the McCann's and the parents know that answer. Kate it is time to answer those simple police questions you actively chose to blank and ignore. It is time to re-enact the events of that night with the Portugese police not a british media programme who want to earn advertising revenue during the breaks. It is time to take one step back and a giant leap forward.

Wizard said...

Hi BT,

“...David was the last non-family member to positively see Madeleine alive in Praia de Luz at 6.30pm that evening, when he went to check on her and Kate while Gerry McCann played tennis...”

I felt the my hair stand up a little when I read this.

Wizard said...

Just a further thought - David Payne is the one who seems to organise all these communal holidays and as we see they all have a number of young children making up the group.

viv said...

Hiya all

It is interesting that Goncalo has never previously mentioned his concerns about sexual abuse or David Payne but he is now.

I can remember me and Ecolab being called all the perverts under the sun by the pros for suggesting this a long time back but it now seems to be a common feeling among many and the pros have given up trying to silence us!

I still do not believe this necessarily means Madeleine was killed, I continue to believe she was injured and had to be got out of the way due to what had been allowed to happen to her. I also continue to believe this crime seems to have been planned.

I have always thought we will be terribly shocked when we hear the truth and that view has not changed. Mrs Justice Hogg thought Madeleine may still be alive and I for one cannot give up hope of that.


viv said...

I do not think it is just David Payne either, I think it is Gerry and Russell as well.

But I do think we should bear in mind that Yvonne Martin was describing Payne the following morning about 10 am in bundleman's clothes. He could well have been the carrier, rather than Gerry.

How odd really for the Paynes to say they never once went and checked the children, they had that handy baby monitor, it saves any need to explain what Payne was doing!


Di said...

Hi All

I think this comment by GA says it all.

The former senior PJ officer understands that David Payne should have been summoned by the McCanns, given the fact that it was him who, right after the child’s disappearance was communicated, on the 3rd of May 2007, prevented other persons, namely an employee of the English Social Services (who happened to be in the area) from adopting measures. “That’s right. The doctor who used to bathe the children is missing, the doctor whom an English couple complained about, in England, on the 16th of May, over something that happened with an underage daughter of theirs, in Mallorca, in 2005”, Gonçalo Amaral added.

Kate supposedly answered the door to DP, wrapped in a towel. Perhaps she allowed him to bathe the children. Something goes wrong, but WHY would Kate cover this up? Perhaps she had no choice, or am I losing the plot.

Di said...

More importantly WHY are K & G not coming forward and standing up for D P and saying this is all nonsense etc.,mmmmmmm

viv said...

Hiya Di

The problem with what Goncalo says it is factually inaccurate. It was not something that happened with an underage daughter of the Gaspars, it was Payne and Gerry having a lewd discussion about Madeleine.

I believe these details were kept from the Portuguese Police until after GA had been removed. As we can seen there is then a communication concerning this on 24 October.

I know we would have been deeply concerned that the investigation was not being kept confidential because of the risks to Madeleine and because we just never disclose details of such investigations due to fear of compromising them. Kate,
Gerry and the rest of them were just kept too much in the loop about what was going on. Once GA left, I think UK got what they wanted on this case, complete confidentiality and the investigation moved towards sexual abuse of Madeleine. Another major reason for keeping it quiet is what about if she is found. We just never let this sort of detail out about a child. He really should not be doing what he is, as a former very senior police officer. I think it has become a personalised issue between him and the McCanns due to the abuse he has suffered and he knows he only has to say a few words and everyone hangs on to them which is exactly what they are doing. And they are building on them!

As for why don't Kate and Gerry speak up about this, I just think like you that is perfectly obvious and Gerry is a real fool to do what he is doing. Particularly when he is up against Goncalo Amaral! They made an enemy of him and he is proving to be a formidable one. But I am afraid these latest revelations from Goncalo have caused me further lose confidence in him. He does not portray this picture in the book her wrote, does he? All he talks about is the apparent "accidental" death of Madeleine.

viv said...

This case have very similar overtones:

Page last updated at 18:28 GMT, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 19:28 UK
E-mail this to a friend Printable version
Police quiz Babes in Wood father
Karen Hadaway and Nicola Fellows
Karen Hadaway (left) and Nicola Fellows (right) were strangled

The father of one of the Babes in the Wood murder victims has been questioned by police on suspicion of sexually abusing his daughter.

Barrie Fellows, 59, of Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, and family friend Douglas Judd, 44, of Brighton, were arrested and bailed by detectives in Sussex.

They were both questioned about abuse of Nicola Fellows before she died.

The strangled bodies of Nicola, 10, and Karen Hadaway, nine, were found in Wild Park in Brighton in 1986.

A spokeswoman for Sussex Police said the investigation was "quite distinct from the ongoing unresolved inquiry into the Wild Park murders, commonly known as the 'Babes in the Wood' murders".

Mr Fellows was arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to rape Nicola and Mr Judd was arrested on suspicion of rape. Both men were bailed until 18 June.

Bodies found

Nicola and Karen, both from Moulsecoomb, were last seen alive on the afternoon of 9 October 1986. Their bodies were found the next day.

Russell Bishop, a labourer who knew both girls and their families and had helped in the search, was acquitted of the murders in the following year.

Police say the abuse inquiry is 'distinct' from the murder investigation

Mr Fellows said after his release that a false allegation was made in 1987 by an ex-girlfriend of Bishop, which caused "massive distress" to him and his family.

He said: "I am absolutely devastated that the police have chosen to re-visit this false claim and arrest myself and another man."

He added: "Not a day goes by when Nicola is not on my mind and in my family's thoughts."

After a review of the case, Sussex Police said in 2006 that there was not enough new evidence to prosecute any possible suspects.

Officers have appealed for anyone with information that might help their investigation to contact them.

viv said...

The above case also demonstrates that for Gerry Payne and O'Brien in particular the police will never give up. Gerry acknowledges his predicament with his continuing desperate attempts to look innocent, rather than what he really is.

bath theory said...

Maybe the couple who wanted to break ranks were the Oldfield's ?

Wizard said...

Hi All,

I’ve just been reading that the Oprah show is advertising the first live interview of the McCanns'in America on their show in May 2009.

Well, well... Kate is too fragile to go to Portugal but apparently she’s OK to swan off to America for a chat with Oprah. On the other hand she is unlikely to be arrested in America!

viv said...

hi Wiz

I thought the Oprah show already told them this story must have a conclusion and with them being officially found to be innocent before they could appear on her show.

I have not seen either, so I wonder what has changed, if they really are to appear on Oprah? If so, she must surely put to them they have not been acquitted of involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine.

Is it officially confirmed they are to appear on Oprah because I could not find anything on her webpage?

If they are, as you say, the only thing that makes Kate feel fragile is being in Rothley waiting for the police to turn up, or being near the PJs in Portugal. I am sure she will feel a lot safer in America and far less fragile. Who will they dump the twins on for this jaunt, I wonder?

viv said...


It seems to me the Oldfields were the least involved and perhaps it could be said have the most to lose. After all they live in a one million pad in Kingston. In UK that would be a general acceptance you made it!

viv said...

This is interesting..but even so people are struggling to let go of the idea that the dogs confirmed Madeleine died in that apt. Not according to the Portuguese or British Police they dont!

Here is a translation of a recent SOL report (portugese newspaper)

05.08.07, 2:33pm

in Sol on August 4, 2007:

a report by Felicia Cabrita with Margarida Davim
translation by astro

On the dogs’ trail

The english dogs do not contradict the clues that were detected by the sniffer dog that GNR sent to the location, on the day following the english girl’s disappearance. It’s an animal that only follows odours, and that “detected the movement of the child from the room to another point inside the apartment”, according to a source with the Guarda.

The same source said that “based on that signal, it was not possible to conclude whether the child was alive or dead – because a sniffer dog will smell both the living and the dead”.

Yet, outside the house, both through the windows that faced the Tapas restaurant – where the McCanns had dinner with their seven friends – and through the main door, “the dog lost the trail, as if the child had exited, for example, rolled up in a blanket”, that source said.

http://functionpix.com/index.php/articl ... hook/1553/

viv said...

Others have pointed out that if she was carried out of the apt, the dogs would struggle to pick up her scent, i.e. they would pick up Gerry or Payne's instead, but I doubt that was tested at the time, regrettably!

bath theory said...

Well I feel we should all e-mail Viv 5 questions Oprah should ask them and we then let Viv collate and send say a top 20 to her show.

This farcical situation where parents of a missing child can swan around being interviewed when they may have been involved and are withholding answers to police questions is abhorent.

The first one I will forward will involve a bath.

viv said...

hiya BT, that sounds like a good idea, but perhaps we should wait to have this confirmed?


bath theory said...

In relation to possible Oprah questions how about starting with the police questions she didn't answer


48 questions straight off - very telling to not answer, ie not implicate oneself.