3 Oct 2009

Martin Grime paid £93,000 for once again insisting his dogs found a "scent of death"

Bungled Jersey child abuse probe branded a '£20million shambles'
By David Rose
Last updated at 9:59 PM on 03rd October 2009

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The bungled inquiry into allegations of child abuse and murder at a Jersey care home will cost taxpayers on the island at least £20million, a Mail on Sunday investigation reveals today.

Lenny Harper, the controversial detective who initially headed Operation Rectangle, also spent thousands of pounds of public money staying in four-star hotels and eating in some of London’s top restaurants.

His handling of the Haut de la Garenne children’s home probe has been described as
a ‘shambles’ by Mick Gradwell, the detective drafted in to replace Harper.

The evidence of lavish expenses claims and extraordinary financial waste includes paying £93,000 to Martin Grime, the handler of the sniffer dog Eddie, who was charged with the grim task of finding children’s bodies that were supposedly entombed in concrete in the institution, known as ‘the Jersey House of Horrors’, which closed in 1986.

To date the ‘human remains’ that triggered the storm surrounding the case have turned out to be a piece of coconut shell.

A leaked report by financial auditors into the investigation shows Grime received £750 a day for the first seven days’ work his dog did and £650 a day for 136 days thereafter.

But it has come to light that he did not have a UK licence for the job. Grime said this
did not matter as Jersey is not in the UK.

Meanwhile, colleagues of Harper have told how he clocked up a huge expenses bill by flying to London regularly to hold meetings with Scotland Yard officers.

In total, Harper and his colleague PC Andrew Linsell, a Jersey traffic officer whom Harper appointed as his personal chauffeur, made 49 claims between January and August 2008 on their force credit cards for meals costing more than £50.

More than £5,700 was on Harper’s card alone.

Only one member of staff who worked at Haut de la Garenne has been convicted as part of the investigation so far. Gordon Wateridge, 78, was found guilty of eight indecent assaults on teenage girls and jailed for two years in August.


'£20m fiasco' of chaos and waste behind the Jersey child abuse inquiry
Main witness had a history of psychotic fantasy and alcoholism

Detectives took lavish meals in London restaurants

Sniffer dog's handler was paid £93,000

Traffic officer was used as detective's 'chauffeur'
Questionable: Deputy Chief Officer Lenny Harper speaks at a press conference at the former Haut de la Garenne children's home in Jersey
Just 11 days before Jersey's deputy police chief Lenny Harper made the island a byword for horror by claiming to have found the 'partial remains of a child' beneath the Haut de la Garenne former children's home, he was adamantly refusing to dig for bodies.
'We have not a shred of evidence to suggest there is anything there,' he told his forensic services manager Vicky Coupland in an email dated February 12, 2008 and obtained by The Mail on Sunday.
According to any 'reasoned assessment', Harper added, it was hard to see how a child could have been entombed in concrete in an institution full of children.
He said: 'There is going to be blood from spotty teenagers. We could end up being massively distracted by small bits of blood that have no relevance. In all the statements and intelligence we have not even a suggestion that there may be or have been bodies.'
If only Harper had stuck to that view, he would have prevented much expense and anguish.
Last month, Gordon Wateridge was jailed for two years for abusing children - to date, he is the only former Haut de la Garenne staff member to be charged with or convicted for offences relating to the treatment of children at the home.
But there were no bodies and, according to a Jersey government spokeswoman, the total cost of the investigation is likely to reach an incredible £20million - half the cost of the complex investigation that snared the gang plotting to blow up airliners with liquid bombs.
Last night Mick Gradwell, the detective chief superintendent from Lancashire who took over the investigation after Harper retired, said that when he arrived to pick up the threads a year ago he found Harper had left a 'shambles', and had flagrantly ignored the basic rules of modern criminal investigation.
'There was no planning, no strategy and no control of costs,' Gradwell said. 'Worse, there were no proper records. Lenny pumped up the media to expect a house of horrors. But as he himself had recognised when he wrote those emails, the evidence was never there.'
A three-month investigation by The Mail on Sunday has revealed:
The main witness behind Harper's decision to begin the search for bodies was a woman with a known history of psychotic fantasy and alcoholism. She named children she said she had seen jumping to their deaths from Haut de la Garenne windows and hanging from trees in the garden, where she said she also found a severed hand. None of these claims were true.
Eddie the sniffer dog - the animal that had supposedly found the 'scent of death' in the Portuguese flat where Madeleine McCann disappeared - no longer had a licence for UK police forensic work when Harper started using him in Jersey. Eddie, whose owner, Martin Grime, was paid £93,600 for less than five months' work, triggered the first excavations by barking at a spot where Harper's team then unearthed what was claimed to be part of a child's skull. In fact, as a Kew Gardens expert has now confirmed, it was a piece of coconut shell.
Financial investigators have spent months poring over the inquiry's costs. They have found they were massively inflated - not only by Harper's mismanagement, but by frequent trips to London, where he and his colleagues claimed expenses for lavish meals.
Harper also retained the island's only police car equipped with a numberplate recognition device for his own personal use, and its driver, PC Andrew Linsell, as his chauffeur. He ordered Linsell to pick him up from home each morning, and sometimes kept him on duty late in the evening to ferry him around.
Earlier this year, Harper defied a Jersey Royal Court order to return to the island to give evidence in an Haut de la Garenne abuse trial and to produce his 'day books' - the notes every UK Senior Investigating Officer (SIO) is required to make about everything he does and to store with inquiry records. Harper claimed they did not exist because Metropolitan Police security experts had advised him not to keep day books. A Scotland Yard spokeswoman denied this, saying the Met told Harper they were essential.
Flawed inquiry: A tent covers one of the excavations at the former children's home of Haut de la Garenne
The absence of the day books means that where Harper's recollections of crucial events differ widely from those of others, there is no way of checking his contemporary record.
Harper refused to comment last night, saying anything he might want to say was contained in a 15,000-word account he recently posted on a website run by a Jersey senator, Stuart Syvret, who has described Harper's critics as 'scum' trying to cover up child abuse.
Harper's article does not address the new evidence revealed by The Mail on Sunday, but states that any criticism of him is ' nonsense' based on 'lies and half-truths'.
Operation Rectangle, Harper's inquiry into 'historic' allegations of child abuse in the Jersey care system, began in September 2007. There was compelling evidence such abuse had occurred, and that the island's police had not dealt with it appropriately.
For example, in 2003, two years after Harper became deputy police chief, his detectives learnt that a former resident of Haut de la Garenne was saying he had been taken on boat trips between the ages of six and ten and subjected to repeated and serious sexual assaults.
But instead of investigating the alleged abuser, the police charged the victim for trying to blackmail his assailant.
At first, Rectangle was a low-key affair and attracted only local publicity. By February 2008, Harper's team had received some claims about possible murders at Haut de la Garenne, a children's home for 86 years until it closed in 1986. But they were far from reliable.
Besides the statements by the psychotic woman, the police had been told by a Jersey lawyer that one of his clients had claimed children had been killed there. However, Rectangle detectives had already interviewed this man and he had said nothing about murders.
It was true that in 2003 builders at Haut de la Garenne had found bones, but they were from animals. Moreover, there had never been a single contemporary report of a child going missing.
Gradwell said: 'Even children in care have families, friends and teachers, none of whom had ever reported a disappearance. Lenny has said one of his problems was the Jersey records were patchy and incomplete, so it was hard to be sure who had actually been there. In fact, they were excellent and very detailed.'
As the emails to Coupland demonstrate, at first Harper displayed a healthy scepticism. So what made him change his mind? According to a senior detective who worked on Harper's team, one factor was sniffer dog Eddie's handler, Martin Grime.
'Grime made a presentation, showing him [Harper] a video of the dog finding the "scent of death" in Kate and Gerry McCann's car,' the detective said.
False trails: Eddie the sniffer dog with handler Martin Grime
'They were still formal suspects and the case had got worldwide publicity. It seemed to get Lenny very excited. I think Grime kind of bewitched him.'
Dave Warcup, Jersey's acting chief police officer, told The Mail on Sunday that he had appointed an independent team of auditors to examine Harper's spending. It includes two forensic accountants and a police expert in seizing criminals' assets.
The team's interim report, seen by this newspaper, reveals that Grime was paid £750 a day for the first seven days he spent on the island and £650 a day for the following 136 days.
Yet Grime, who had left South Yorkshire police in July 2007 and was selling his dogs' services through his private business, had failed to keep up the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) licence that certified Eddie as a police 'cadaver dog'.
Grime did have a second sniffer dog, Keela, but its licence expired a fortnight after they arrived in Jersey.
ACPO rules governing UK police dogs state: 'Dog and handler teams that fail to remain in-licence are deemed "not competent".'
Grime admitted to The Mail on Sunday that the dog's licence had lapsed. He said: 'After I retired, my dogs were tested according to my own standards which are more stringent than ACPO's. But Jersey is not in the UK, so they were in their rights to employ whoever they wanted.' He said his fees were 'all agreed' and that he had given Jersey a 'discount'.
Asked about the 'human remains' found by Eddie that turned out to be coconut, Grime said bizarrely: 'People aren't right 100 per cent of the time. Otherwise they wouldn't be human.'
The auditors' interim report concludes: 'It was an expensive mistake to bring in Mr Grime. It would have been far preferable and much cheaper to have tried to obtain appropriately trained dogs and handlers from UK police forces.'
Harper, it adds, did not consider this option. For much of the time Grime spent on Jersey, the report reveals, he was not even working with his dogs, but as an assistant to the Haut de la Garenne crime scene manager - duties for which he had no qualifications, and which did 'not justify the payment to him of £650 a day'.
Meanwhile, Harper approached the National Police Improvement Agency (NPIA), the body that co-ordinates all UK national police functions and training, asking for advice about forensic experts and equipment such as ground-penetrating radar.
He went to London and met its chief executive, Peter Neyroud, a former Thames Valley chief constable and a seasoned murder investigator. 'The narrative he gave me was that there had been abuse, maybe murder, and a cover-up by Jersey's establishment,' Neyroud said.
Needle in a haystack: A police forensics officer sifts through the rubble collected during the investigation at Haut de la Garenne
He explained that in a case like this, detectives would normally need weeks of painstaking preparation before they started to dig.
The SIO's 'bible' - the ACPO Murder Manual - says planning a formal 'search strategy' is a 'key priority': instead of merely 'fishing', investigators should direct searches in the light of other evidence.
Neyroud said: 'You certainly don't go rushing in. I must say, I was surprised by how fast Lenny moved.'
Once Eddie started sniffing, any notion of a strategy disappeared. Karl Harrison, one of the scientists Harper brought in from a UK company, LGC Forensics, summed up the inquiry's approach in a comment to the financial investigators.
He said: 'We followed the dog. Where the dog barked was dug up.' This, says the interim report, was 'a fundamental error'.
Harper had not worked as a detective since 1991. In his website article he claims he was experienced at investigating child rape, 'execution-style' slayings and terrorism. In fact, he served as an SIO only in less complex cases, such as domestic murders.
The gaps in his knowledge were huge. The report says he had 'little idea' of how to use the HOLMES computer system, for years the mainstay of every major inquiry, and in one email to a colleague he asked: 'What role does the analyst play?' Analysts have been central to big investigations for almost 20 years.
Meanwhile, even before the 'skull fragment' was found, Harper was apparently thinking about how to achieve maximum media impact. Neyroud said: 'He said he was getting local media coverage, but complained he hadn't got traction beyond the island.
I recommended he talk to an experienced national reporter. I also said, "If you're going to dig, you need to plan what you say to the media very carefully." The last thing a sensitive inquiry like this needs is the kind of rampant speculation that was soon on every front page: you need to be very cautious about what you say, and to whom.'
Later, Anne Harrison, the NPIA's head of operational support, paid several visits to Jersey with a former Met commander, Andre Baker. In his website article, Harper says these visits are evidence that his conduct of the case was 'fully endorsed' at UK national level.
However, asked whether he had 'endorsed' Harper's actions, Baker said through a spokeswoman: 'The investigation remains the sole responsibility of the investigating force, the Senior Investigating Officer and the chief officer.'
As for Harrison, said Neyroud, she was appalled to see Harper had completely ignored crucial parts of the Murder Manual and the NPIA's advice about dealing with the media. Neyroud said: 'Working out and sticking to a media strategy is also vital. Harper simply didn't have one.'
Digging the dirt: 'Where the sniffer dog barked was dug up,' says one of the scientists drafted in to the investigation
Harrison sometimes found it difficult to see him, Neyroud added, because he was spending hours each day giving interviews to journalists. When Harper did make time to see Harrison, he said: 'We do it the Jersey way here.'
Harper basked in the media attention. 'Once we'd found the piece of "skull", the excitement of telling the Press overwhelmed him,' a former Jersey detective said. On one occasion, he said, he saw Harper punch the air, saying: 'What a job to go out on!'
Harper, says the report, was rarely seen at the incident room in the police station in St Helier, where detectives were assembling evidence of non-lethal child abuse.
The detective said: 'He usually just went straight to Haut de la Garenne. I had to drive out there to find out what was happening because he just wasn't briefing us. It developed into two separate jobs - the sex-abuse inquiry at the police station, and the sexy scene at la Garenne.'
The report quotes another detective who said: 'There was nothing fed from the scene into the incident room. God knows how they knew what they were looking for, because they had no idea of what was in the system.'
In his website article, Harper insists he was told by Jersey's government that the eventual cost of his investigation was 'irrelevant' and that he should spend whatever he needed. Presumably the island's leaders did not expect to have to subsidise Harper's expensive habits.
The report says that between January and August 2008, Harper made six trips to Scotland Yard in London on expenses. He was always accompanied by between one and four other officers. The trips accounted for 18 days of Harper's time and 41 days of his colleagues' time.
None of the meetings at the Yard took more than two hours. Ostensibly, they were held to assess the possible security risks to Harper's inquiry. But one Jersey detective who was there said: 'If there was a discussion about assessing risk, it was so brief I hardly noticed it. It was mainly small talk, and discussion of where we were going out that night.'
Even if the meetings had all been essential, it would have been easy for Harper to fly to London and back on the same day. Yet he and the others always spent at least one and usually two nights in a four-star hotel.
This made some of his companions 'uncomfortable', the report says. But trying to get out of the trips 'did not go down well with Lenny'.
Jersey police expenses policy sets a ceiling for dinner of £25.22 per head. It allows alcohol to be claimed only for 'essential' business entertainment. Officers must submit fully itemised restaurant bills.
These rules did not apply to Harper. For example, the report reveals that during a trip at the beginning of February 2008, he and a colleague submitted force credit-card receipts for three meals totalling £1,100.
Error: A piece of cocunut shell wrongly identified as a fragment of a child's skull during the Jersey probe
As on later visits, they dined at the Bombay Brasserie, a high-end restaurant in Soho, and at Shepherd's near Victoria, long favoured by politicians and senior officers from the Yard.
Sometimes the bills were extraordinary. On May 1, a dinner at Shepherd's cost Jersey taxpayers £699, split among three police credit cards. As usual, there was no itemised receipt.
Harper was paying for an additional guest that night - a reporter from a Sunday newspaper. Given her presence, the report comments: 'We do not see how this occasion can possibly be regarded as a business dinner within the terms of the policy.'
The other officers present told the investigators they believed Harper told them to put the cost on several cards to disguise how much they had spent.
Meanwhile, Harper was also claiming dinners in Jersey, at restaurants such as Chateau la Chaire, billed on its website as 'truly one of Jersey's finest country-house hotels'.
In all, the investigators found 49 separate claims between January and August on Harper's and PC Linsell's force cards for meals that cost more than £50. More than £5,700 was on Harper's card alone.
The report contains other examples of Harper's waste. Large sums were spent on overtime, with some officers claiming tens of thousands of pounds. Then there is PC Linsell, Harper's chauffeur, who normally worked as a traffic officer.
'He was required to be at Mr Harper's disposal throughout the day and sometimes into the evening,' the report says, 'until Mr Harper decided he wanted to go home. The police vehicle would then have to be returned to police headquarters before PC Linsell could go off duty.'
There might be times when an SIO would need to be driven somewhere, the report says. 'However, to have a personal chauffeur is a very different matter - not even the chief officer has a driver. The deployment of PC Linsell in this way could be regarded as an abuse.'
If Harper were still serving, his use of Linsell might well constitute a breach of the police discipline code, the report says.
Against this background, with Jersey the focus of the world's media, the discovery that the 'skull fragment' found on February 23, 2008 was vegetable rather than human posed a big problem for Harper. He resorted to denial and exaggeration.
In his web article, Harper claims: 'I had never said there was evidence of murder - only evidence that there was something that needed investigation.'
Jailed: Child abuser Gordon Wateridge is the only former Haut de la Garenne staff member to be charged over treatment of children there
But on May 17 last year, when he was contacted by The Mail on Sunday about the 'skull' actually being coconut, he said the real story was that newly dug-up fragments 'have been positively identified as being very young children's bones', buried as recently as the Eighties.
He added: 'The anthropologists are saying we have dead children there, not a dead child.' There were also teeth, and 'experts are saying that these teeth could not possibly have come out naturally before death because there is so much of the root attached to them'.
The claims were false. On May 2, Harper had also emailed three senior Jersey officials saying he now had proof that a second child had been buried at Haut de la Garenne: 'The bone fragments are from the skull of a child... The expert's initial findings are that the child died fairly recently - confirmation will mean that a homicide inquiry will have to [be] launched.'
Last week, Harper and his supporter Syvret claimed this email was tampered with. But his former secretary, Vickie Ellis, has said in a police statement that she sent it exactly as he dictated it.
Two years after Operation Rectangle began, there is little to show for the £20million.
Besides Wateridge, a former resident of Haut de la Garenne has been convicted of assaulting children there and given probation. Another man, Claude Donnelly, got 15 years for raping several children, but these offences were not related to Haut de la Garenne. Two other men - who did not work at the home - have been charged.
For Mick Gradwell, who retired last month after 30 years as an officer, the only way to clear up the mess is to hold a public inquiry into both Harper and Jersey's child abuse. He said: 'This is one of the worst policing fiascos of modern times, and those responsible need to be called to account.'
Meanwhile, nothing infuriates those still serving more than the claim there has been a cover-up.
Dave Warcup said: 'The inquiry team numbered between 40 and 50 experienced officers made up of both local officers and personnel seconded from the UK.
'The majority of the team had no previous association with Jersey. These assertions are clearly fanciful. They are insulting to every individual who has worked in and around the inquiry.'



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html#ixzz0SuXZXLJ2

35 comments:

hope4truth said...

No reason to think the dogs did not detect Cadavar in this home the body could have been moved after laying there for a long time before being moved...

The home in Jersey was full of evil people abusing children when they most needed help and from what I have read it looks like a huge cover up.

Strange that the dogs have never had a false positive yet as soon as they dare to find cadavar where the McCann's are concerned sudenly the next high profile case it is nowt but a coconut shell???

If I believed in conspiracy theories I would have to conclude those pesky dogs need to look like dogs even the dog whisperer could not train???

viv said...

Hiya Hope


I find this story sad in describing children grown into adults and being let down in their complaints about serious sexual abuse. Harper prosecuted one victim for threatening to blackmail his abuser? That does not sound like justice, surely there should be an understanding that if someone has suffered that badly as a child and as an adult, having the guts to finally report it, still cannot get any satisfaction, it may be understood they will take some personal action against their abuser?

I would like to know why Grime went freelance after the Maddie case and Eddie was no longer licensed to carry out forensic work in the UK. I would also like to know how he can justify charging a massive £93,000 for producing no results whatsoever? That just sounds like blatant profiteering to me.

hope4truth said...

I think Martin Grime has two fantastic well trained dogs whi have for a long time been getting results.

As for the money he charges people know how much it will be before they ask him to come and help an investigation if they dont want him they are not forced to hire him.

Not sure why he went freelance or why Eddie is no longer licenced to work in the UK but these dogs were praised before they dared to find cadavar in the McCann's case and suddenly they are rubbish...

Here is a really wacky conspiracy theory for you there was always talk of a tenth tapas who is to say he did not discover something and met his end in 5A before being removed at some point and that is the cadavarine that was alerted by the dog? Maybe it was someone with lots of sway and he has turned up somewhere dead but it has been passed off as natural causes???

Ridiculous as the above is it is all so very strange nothing would surprise me anymore???

Someone wrote on the 3As (I think I know I have read it somewhere) that you would not want to get on a plane if a bomb dog went nuts and I guess if you were carrying drugs in a club if the dogs came in you would try and ditch them so why suddenly is a Cadavar dog made a laughing stock of???

Whilst I am talking total rubbish when Martin Grime was demonstrating how the dogs work he buried something in a jar that was really old and the dog found it whats to say Cadavar was not put around the apartment in the car etc and this has been planned they know she is not dead but if someone dares to say she is they can sue and maybe one day bring her back and make more money from parading her around the chat show circuit and finaly make the film they dream of showing themselves as the heros...

It is all too sick for me these days a 3 year old child has been allowed to vanish thanks firstly to her parents lack of care and yet we must all praise the poor McCann's and be happy Madeleine is probebly giving the peado that took her, her tuppence worth!

Wizard said...

Morning Viv and Hope,

It’s a very disappointing article that throws a life line to the McCanns’ regarding the dogs findings and no doubt one they will quote from now on in.

The Jersey story could be a massive cover up for very dark goings on at the children’s home.

When you think about it to bury children in the grounds of the home does not make sense. The bodies would be moved from the site to avoid detection.

Imo it is likely the perpetrators may have temporarily stored the bodies there and moved them later. This is probably what the dogs picked up on.

I do not think the spin in this article proves the dogs wrong as they were obviously not alerting to a coconut shell – that’s just ridiculous.

As I said earlier a life line for the McCanns’ abduction yarn.

hope4truth said...

Hi Wizard

I agree if children were killed and when I read the articles in the press some of the victims said that people just vanished the bodies were probebly stored in the basements and moved..

As for the coconut shell I am at a loss to why anyone would not find this a very strange thing to find burried down there it is not as if Jersey is famous for it's coconuts should the question not be how did it end up down there?

1 person has been jailed for the Jersey abuse but when it was reported there was talk about many people using the home and it's children for their own perverted needs.

Peadophillia seems to be a very hushed subject these days in many cases we have David Payne talking to Gerry in a very inapropriate way using hand gestures that are just not normal and it seems he loved bathing everyones children??? We have operation Ore that was all over the press until nothing more could be printed about it and now Jersey? Many people came forward about the abuse over many years and suddenly nothing?

It seems to me that we may be awash with Peadophiles in this country that we are not allowed to know about they throw the odd one like Gary Glitter to the press but cover for many more? God help all our children if just one Peadophile is being protected!

Di said...

Hi Viv, Hope, Wizard

Well the dogs must be proven incompetent at all costs, after all it is the dogs and only the dogs that point to a death in apt 5A.

I agree Wizard, Kate & Gerry will love this article, I wonder if Clarence knows David Rose by any chance!

Hope

Your theory is no more bizarre than the theory the T9 would have us believe, or for that matter Donal Macintyre.

Just going back to the Jersey case. I watched a documentary about it a while back. Listening to those that had been abused was harrowing, and I really believed them when they said children literally disappeared. I think a cover up from high places was inevitable in this case, tourism was mentioned in the docu, also government officials. One could I suppose say there are several similarities to Madeleine's case, people in high places.

I do wonder, if we will ever get to the truth of what happened to poor Madeleine.

Di said...

Interesting point made by Mermaid42on JM's site.


The fact that the cadaver scent and blood traces were found in the same place was highly notable - why has there never been any FSS discussion on the probability or otherwise of this being coincidence

viv said...

Listen to Mitchell having to hold his temper back, talking about the commercial value of the Fund, the media are making a lot of money out of this, is any of it coming back to US, no.

The presenter amiably tries to put to him can you understand the backlash about the prospect of this tragedy being turned into Madeleine the Movie..

Are we getting all of this aggressive talk from Mitchell now? No!

Oh by the way I love the little captions that keep popping up on this and he rants away!

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/02/video-of-day-looking-back-on-madeleine.html

viv said...

I am interested in your comments but still tend to the view that Gerry McCann loved all this talk about the dogs and he fed it, to make himself a lot of money and to take the talk away from what he really did.

If he has any friends in high places I believe they are those with a very unnatural interest in little children.

viv said...

A fairly straightforward parental homicide of a child, you tend to get a result, but sexual abuse of children with a massive web of others involved, not so easy, jmo.

hope4truth said...

I have been reading through the McCann file today. I always find it refreshing to read as there are no opinions everything is there with no comments to distract from what has been reported.

The below paragraph from the channel 4 documentary Madeleine was here convinces me they are lying many things have convinced me they are not telling the truth but the below paragraph should make anyone who worships at their feet think WHAT???

"KM: "I did my check about 10.00 o'clock and went in through the sliding patio doors and I just stood, actually, and I thought, 'oh, all quiet', and to be honest, I might have been tempted to turn round then, but I just noticed that the door, the bedroom door where the three children were sleeping, was open much further than we'd left it."

No way on earth she could have known how far that door was open. Gerry could have forgoton to close the door after gazing at his daughter and thinking how lucky he was before turning around and walking back out the door leaving his wonderful children alone again.

Although we have been told by the expert Dr's there is no way Madeleine could have left the apartment on her own they cant know this. Madeleine could have got up for any number of reasons and left the door ajar...

I would like to know though how they can be so very certain she did not get out of bed? Kates own Mother has said she was a bad sleeper who sleepwalked so how do they know this COULD NOT have happend???

Was she sedated? Was she tied to her bed? or was she unable to move for other more evil reasons???

I am really looking forward to the next documentry or interview from them each and every one has brought up things they really should not want to share but for me how Kate could know how far a door was left open after 2 other people went in and Madeleine could have got up speaks volumes.

After all Oldfield only said he did not enter the room after Madeleine went missing so Kate could not have known he did not leave the door open either...

Wizard said...

Hi viv,

The door incident is another example of things that just don’t add up.

As you point out both Gerry and Oldfield {twice} allegedly entered the apartment after the McCanns' left earlier in the evening for the tapis bar.

So how indeed, did she reason the door was wider open than she when she left it and further reason this was suspicious to her.

These niggling inconsistencies are no doubt the reasons the pj thought they were involved.

It’s likely that Kate would not have considered her daughter got out of bed because she was sedated, however, my scenario has MBM already dead when the Mccanns' left for the tapis bar.

The checking that occurred is quite cleaver in removing the couple from finding Madeleine missing and setting up an alibi for them.

It of course went wrong when Matt Oldfield checked twice and found nothing amiss. Gerry was imo so surprised that Oldfield noticed nothing after his first check he checked again 5 minutes later - which is another inconsistency – why would he do that.

I think I’m correct in saying if you find a body or in this case find a child missing you immediately will be placed under suspicion by the police. So the McCanns’ get Oldfield to do the checking but unfortunately he failed them and it was left to Kate to raise the alarm.

Even though it could be argued he, unwittingly failed in his given task, he does provide then with an alibi inasmuch as he is reporting, although not seeing Madeleine, everything else was normal.

It is left to Kate to report things are not normal with Madeleine missing; the shutters up, the window open etc.

Wizard said...

Just thinking through my above post made me wonder.

If one of the other T9 were supposed to find MBM missing could this be the reason the McCanns’ gave very misleading information to start off with and why Kate couldn’t string a sentence together.

By this I mean it wasn’t planned to happen this way. What the McCanns said after the alarm was raised presents them with unrehearsed staging.

Could this be the reason Kate says “they have taken her”. The shutters were jemmied; the doors were locked then apparently open. The list goes on.

Just a thought.

Wizard said...

JM tells us today about Amaral’s new book.

“'The English Gag' is the title of the new book - under review - from Gonçalo Amaral. "It's an essay on censorship and freedom of expression", written in ten days after the ban of 'Maddie - The Truth of the Lie'.”

It is also reported that at Amaral’s birthday party yesterday, who should be sitting outside the restaurant, where the celebration was held, making obscene gestures but the lawyer Marcos Aragão Correia. Correia certainly is a few slices short of a full loaf.

Correia was chased off, leaving the scene but returning later with the police.

Well…you couldn’t make it up could you? LOL

hope4truth said...

Hi Wiz

You could be right about one of the T9 supposed to find Madeleine missing...

I cant help think they all have to be involved though to stay quiet when they must all find so much very strange???

I often wonder if JT only said she had seen someone to make the PJ do something beliveing Madeleine had been taken and thinking the police had doubts?

trouble is I am still stuck 2 years back when I first started on the DX the pros were so full on about how evil we were and saintly their neglectin heros were it did not make sense.

I only posted to debate and find some answers and was hit with such hostility and it was so important they shut me and others up I came to the conclusion they must be being paid to post.

Even if I belived Madeleine had been abducted her parents have acted in such an strange and uncaring way ever since I would have to think WTF???

hope4truth said...

Oh LOL

Just read about the lawyer you are right you just could not make it up !!!

viv said...

Hiya guys

Only just checked in and started to read Hope's first post from which she quotes Kate McCann:

"KM: "I did my check about 10.00 o'clock and went in through the sliding patio doors and I just stood, actually, and I thought, 'oh, all quiet', and to be honest, I might have been tempted to turn round then,

Now that is what is utterly bizarre about this couple's most incredible lies they are even prepared to go on telly and repeat, isn't it.

According to her friends she was worried about leaving the children, even with the door open, but when she goes to check on them, a full one and a half hours after she went out, she tells us she walked in the apt, thought alls quiet (in line with the Butlin's checking routine and what people thought was OK in th 1950s), and without so much as bothering to even go and have a look at her "precious" children that had been left alone with the door ajar, she tells us she thought about just walking straight out again.

I am sure I am not the only mom that went and checked my children even when I had been in the house all the time, just to see if they are OK and because I love them and like to look at them.

This is what is so surreal about Team McCann and Kate is one big fool to go on TV, make comments like that, and then try to insist what a loving mom she is.

viv said...

Oh my goodness Wiz, what a fruitcake, obsessive compulsive disorder. Poor Goncalo being fixated upon by that weird little man, just had to try and spoil his party, stalking him, ugh!

Pretty clever to rip out another book in just 10 days!

at Amaral’s birthday party yesterday, who should be sitting outside the restaurant, where the celebration was held, making obscene gestures but the lawyer Marcos Aragão Correia

viv said...

"I only posted to debate and find some answers and was hit with such hostility and it was so important they shut me and others up I came to the conclusion they must be being paid to post."

Here, here Hope and I am still getting some of that hostility, not from devout pros anymore but from certain people who claim to be antis.

It has become like a war to some, we have our stranger abduction theory and dont you dare deny it, we have our dogs theory and dont you dare to deny it.

Whatever happened to just being concerned about what happened to Madeleine and looking for the truth and stuff what warring or even paid posters have to do to be right at all costs?

Di said...

Hi All

I have been reading round a few blogs trying to catch up, and I agree Viv, certain people have shocked me at their sudden hostility towards you. One person in particular who I always had respect for, stunned me with his venom. Something is definitely amiss like you say, supposed antis are now attacking antis. It has also happened to myself simply for asking a question, something I am not allowed to do with such few posts, you have to research yourself, I wish I had the time but I also have a life.

Perhaps we have all be lulled into a false safeness by these paid monkeys, who are now having to show their true colours as the net closes in on team McCann.

I live in hope that this case is about to be re-opened.

Di said...

Wizard

I wish I had been there to see Marcos make such a fool of himself, and in front of the Mayor and reporters, get the straight jacket now this guy wants locking up. Mind you I would feel sorry for the inmates LOL.

Di said...

Hope

I have never been able to understand why Kate thought it safe to just stand there and not actually go into the room to check on the children. The door slammed shut yet she still did not want to put the light on for fear of waking them up. A slamming door is much more likely to wake the children than a light imo, and not forgetting the cold breeze that was blowing through the supposed open window.

Am I remembering correctly, was it not also mentioned that the twins slept soundly through all the commotion, and the PJ were surprised they had no covers.

Oh what a tangled web we weave.

hope4truth said...

Hi Di

It is all beyond bizare isnt it??? I think the Twins slept through everything until 11.00 the next morning?? It is very strange they slept so late not just because of all the noise and being moved but they were in the Creche every other day much earlier and my girls and most other children I know wake up at the same time every morning even if they had a late night???

As for anti's having a go you are not allowed to have an opinion if you dont just go along with every hate filled theory...

None of us know what happend and if she was abducted (which I just dont belive) even Gerry and Kate cant know what happend as they wre not there the only way they can know is if they are responsible...

All very strange xxx

viv said...

Hiya Di

Of course I know who you are talking about, the one who sounds just like Bonnybraes, furious if you diss the dogs and furious if you mention Maddie may have been sexually abused. For that I get full on pro venom. Bonnybraes has long since taken her mask off, and now quite perversely disses the dogs herself but her compatriot does not fool me with his vile mouth.

So what does this tell us? The dogs are a complete and utter red herring. Something that in the earlier stages Gerry was quite happy to play up to as he cashed in but now wants to distance himself from that as he pursues Goncalo Amaral.

Why, I ask you did he wait nearly 12 months against the Daily Express and just the same with Goncalo Amaral. Gerry McCann loves all these doggy tales they have thrown people off the scent and made him a fortune. But I have to say he is not the only one who has been intent on making a fortune out of poor little Maddie. The lot of them just make me sick.

I think the net is closing and desperation creeps in, this case has never been closed in UK and even in Portugal only formally!

xx

viv said...

Good grief Hope are you sure about this, dynamite if true, given Gerry loves to prattle on about this early to bed early to rise routine the all have. Do you remember on his blogs, I think he said they all get up about 6,30 or some bizarre hour:-)) So if those twins were up and running just turned nine every day but slept until 11 that day, well crikey!!

My boys never afforded me such a luxury, not until they were um about 14!

I think the Twins slept through everything until 11.00 the next morning?? It is very strange they slept so late not just because of all the noise and being moved but they were in the Creche every other day much earlier and my girls and most other children I know wake up at the same time every morning even if they had a late night???

hope4truth said...

Morning Viv

I am sure I have read many times that the twins slept through everything even being moved and Kate kept checking their breathing and they did not wake up until 11 the next morning.

Will try and find a link but off out now xxx

Wizard said...

Madrid, 6 oct (EFE) – The parents of Madeleine McCann, Gerry and Kate, may return to the Portuguese village of Praia da Luz, where their daughter disappeared from, before the end of the year.

Thus said today the father of the little girl that disappeared in May 2007 while the family enjoyed their holiday at said village in the Portuguese Algarve.

“Kate would like to return to Praia da Luz when things are less intense, but we’d like it to be a private visit, probably before the end of the year”, said Gerry McCann.

McCann intervened in the international lawyers’ congress, which is held at the Municipal Conventions’ Palace in Madrid, as a lecturer on a panel about the media and the right to privacy and to reputation.

In a statement after his participation, McCann asserted that, although there was no advancement in the investigation, there is also “absolutely no indication that she suffered any hurt or harm, therefore we must believe that she is alive out there and we cannot stop looking for her”.

“As parents, it is our obligation to continue searching for her; we must convince people that the searches must continue, and we should return to Portugal”, he said.

The McCann couple was in Portugal in late September, in order to reactivate the search for their daughter.

Speaking in front of an image of his daughter just like she was when she disappeared, and a computer-generated one of how she might look almost three years later, McCann underlined that “only because she disappeared over 2 and a half years ago, people should not forget about Madeleine or about the search for her.”


source: El Confidencial, 06.10.2009

Read more: http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/#ixzz0TAUIGoQ7
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives

Wizard said...

Hi All,

So GM goes to Madrid no doubt at the expense of the fund.

He says regarding his daughter : there is “absolutely no indication that she suffered any hurt or harm.”

What planet does he live on!

GM goes onto say his wife wants to return to PdL when things are not so intense.

Translation of McCann speak – she is not returning then!

viv said...

Hiya Wiz

So Gerry has come out of this an esteemed expert on media law and available on the lecture circuit?

He actually has the audacity to lecture about his right to privacy when he has been shoving himself in our faces for the last two and a half years, and laughed on Paxman when it was put to him he used the media just when it suited him?

They can put out an abusive campaign about the Portuguese Police being inept from day one and how Kate believes they are trying to "frame them" and then lecture about the right to a reputation? They completely ruin the livelihood of Portuguese people and then talk about their own right to a reputation, having admitted to dumping their kids day and at night with the door ajar, abductors free kids right this way? Kate and Gerry go on TV to explain how they just ignored Madeleine's complaints about her and her even tinier siblings being left to cry, they just went and done it again, but then demand they have a right to a reputation?

If they thought anything about their reputation they should have been saying how downright sorry they are for abusing their children in that way and exposing them to the risk of serious harm. If they cared anything about their right to privacy, Gerry would not have been blogging about the twins daily routine and parading them before the cameras in PDL, and most of all he would not have been blogging and repeatedly presenting himself to the media at every god given opportunity he can create.

He tells us about every mundane little detail of their lives and then tells us they have a right to privacy? They invite the cameras into their homes for day in the lives of the bloody McCanns and then bleat about their right to privacy?

Is being on the lecture circuit now part of the "wider political agenda" that he was writing on his flipchart (summative overview!) just weeks after Maddie went missing. Is this yet another way this man seeks to cash in?

Is he glibly announcing Kate wants a private visit to PDL towards the end of the year just to give a bit of advance publicity to this year's Maddie Christmas Special? Will they both be dumping the twins again to make this "private" visit?

Do they not think that leaving it two years before they can be bothered to go back to Portugal and supposedly look for Madeleine may have just been increasing this suffering that this man assures us a little girl "who has been torn and secreted from her own family" is just not suffering from?

What on earth will Gerry McCann say or do next!

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

When I read this…

“McCann intervened in the international lawyers’ congress, which is held at the Municipal Conventions’ Palace in Madrid, as a lecturer on a panel about the media and the right to privacy and to reputation.”

I thought it was a mistake in translation. GM a lecturer in media and privacy to reputation.

Well… words fail me I cant believe it!

Di said...

Hi all

Wizard

Words fail you...I think I am losing the plot!

I will probably wake up one morning and find that Gerry is our next Prime Minister. That would be the time to turn the lights off and shut the doors :o((

On a serious note, what is going on? Could it still be that this is all waffle on Gerry's part, and something is about to happen which they are trying to distract from?

viv said...

Hiya guys

Well Di, you calmed me down again, you are going to wake one morning to find Gerry is the next PM, that really did make me laugh!

But you know he is such a bloody nutter, I would not be surprised to learn he has narcissistic dreams of Chequers and No 10 and the regular visits to Buck Pal. It kind of fits with that sick smirk on his face outside the Whitehouse!

I am wondering when Kate is going to emerge as the presaged International Mother Theresa and Expert on all matters relating to the welfare of the Child.

Perhaps Gerry has a bit of Cherie and Tony role mole in mind? Let's pretend to be really lovely and make a mint in the process, live in a big palace and have some fantastic holidays. Even the Blairs put on a better act and generally keep an eye on their kids or pay someone to!

viv said...

On a more serious note still Di, there is a really big push towards Portugal, away from nasty UK coppers, we are not talking about them they are nasty and we do NOT want to work with them. WE decided we love the Portuguese againt now, we are sorry we said they tried to frame us and they did not look for Maddie, we are running right back to them now to help them:-))


There is something serious in there, I promise!

hope4truth said...

This Brave Kate by line is getting on my very last nerve...

She should be bloody brave and go back and answer those questions for Madeleine instead of spinning her life into even more danger if she is still findable....

xxx

noticias said...

Corrupción política y el "BBC. Xornal Express." "Gerry Pederásta y Pedófilo Caso Maddie"
BBC Expresss. Xornal .Mas remenber haciendo el ridiculo con las fotos y todo por el apoyo que está obteniendo con el xornal y sus seguidores,mercedes,mila y compañia...los ladrones y mentirosos estamostodosaqui@gmail.com beneficios estan sacando con remenber y compañia periodista independiente y el angel de la muerte portavoz de los Mccann que ya a sacado millones de euros de esta historia y mucho beneficio para el periodico del BBC Express Xornal por ver esta realidad de violacion y asesinato en primer grado de dos Spsicópatas y parecer una difamacion por que os parece el euro en primer plano.aqui hay mucho tomate con este remenber Sacando fotos comicas para buscar de inocentes y desgraciados culpables. Nos a salido ranas Remenber y su tropa de periodistas corruptos diario y dirección que están comprados Por los MCcann tendrian que obserbar las cuentas del director y sus degenerados desde luego apoyos no les faltan que dejen la comedia y de engañar al mundo Euros euros euros es le dilema de la comedia...


"Poesia o verso de dicado a los MCcann y sus secuaces"

El Fraude, Moneda Nacional
En el pais de no me acueeeerdo ,
doy tres pasitos y me pieeeeerdo
se me cae, un billete y lo levanta el juez,
“uy perdon” le digo y contesta “No importa, pase Ud.”
Un campeonato ganado,
otro arbritro comprado,
Un cura que reclama ” Felices los niños”
.. que yo abuse
Y clarin siempre diciendo , La pura Verdad,
que el presidente de turno quiere escuchar
Compren, compren, se venden libertades,
se venden al por mayor , abogados corruptos y fiscales tambien
seis tiros en la cabeza que el dinero no pudo ocultar
hay silencios que son muy caros pero mas caro es el hablar,
algun medio pagara, esta excusiva de verdad
Habilitamos lo que sea por un cafe y algo mas,
digame lo que necesita, cualquier cosa se consigue
el diego, lo podemos conversar
Y hablando de Diego, pobre muchacho
que fraude le hicieron, se parece al electoral ,
por un punto mas de raiting una bebe queda sin hogar ,
es que la TV es tirana y del Monstruo mejor ni hablar
Ya para ir dejando el Verso que es moneda nacional,y los medios informatiiiiic.....voooooos...que no parán de tapár y
sí para nosotros ya tenemos a telefonica que nos mándaaa a reeecargáaáár,aqui todo el múndo a robár, con el mónstruo de góóógle que nos manipulaaaaaaaa
para que nos tápeeeen la voca con sus masters dirigiiiiiendonos sí débemos estár, para que luego llegue él més y a paaaaagar a todos el fraude la moneda nacional ....con el control de google tódos estámos yáááá y los tontos alimééééntar....?quiéééén nóóós quééééda yáááá¿...Todos los deréchos nós lós están violándo.........Y los Mccann ríéndos están...
14 diciembre, 2009 12:45
noticias dijo...
beneficios estas sacando con remenber y compañia por ver esta realidad de violacion y asesinato en primer grado y parecerte una difamacion por que os parece el euro en primer plano.........

Noticias al descubierto.

Eso es dar vueltas y no ir a ninguna parte eso si que es especulacion y una manera de marear la perdiz como de costumbre la teneis
estamostodosaqui@gmail.com soy iguales que ellos marear al mundo con vuestras chorradas ENCUBRIENDO EL MALTRATO INFANTIL ABUSOS Y ASESINATO
MCcann pederasta y pedófilo
estais creando un mundo de espaculaciones sin sentido para poner de titulo "hasta que se sepa la verdad" ese nó és él camíno a .seguír tendreis la respuesta cónmigo y los culpables de los mccann. de hecho los traigo detras. la violación y el maltrato infantil a estádo y está al horden del dia más en este caso se está hablándo de asesinato, y la culpa la tienén quien se dedican a limentarla y defendérla no fomenteis el sitema habeis confúndido al múndo con defender a los MCcann DEJAR QUE SE DESCUBRA LA VERDAD BASTA DE TANTO ENCUBRIMIENTO La verdad a los afectados no les gustán y a los encubridores tampoco ....