4 Oct 2008

POLICE EVENTUALLY GET THERE!

Hi all, I thought you may find this case interesting where the murderer carried out the most horrific attack but the police stated they had a good idea who it was but could not prove it. They had evidence but it was insufficient. A few years after a retrial he was convicted, as you will see when this man attempted to appeal his convictions but sadly not before he had killed again and also attempted to kill his mother.

Are there some parallels to be drawn here, in a way, I think there are!

Viv x


Inquest into decapitation fails to satisfy grieving family
By Steve BogganTuesday, 20 March 2001
For many bereaved families, an inquest, just like a funeral, is part of dealing with the loss of a loved one in tragic circumstances. But for the family of Julian Sanders it has meant that the person who cut off his head while he was still alive may never be punished.
Yesterday, an inquest into Julian's death last May recorded a verdict that he was unlawfully killed. However, the fact that it took place at all was an indication that police efforts to find his killer are at best becalmed, at worst stymied.
Normally, inquests are held in abeyance pending police investigations, but The Independent has learned that Julian's murder file has been put on "cold case review". That means officers will investigate new evidence if it comes in, but they have stopped searching for the perpetrator. They believe they know who killed Julian, but they can't prove it.
Julian, 20, from Shrewsbury, was found dead in a field in Longbridge, Birmingham, 70 miles from his home, on 29 May last year. His head was found a few feet from his body. A post-mortem examination revealed that he had been hit on the back of the head but he was still alive when it was crudely hacked off. Decapitation is not unusual in murder. It is often used as a means of concealing the victim's identity after death. In Julian's case, decapitation was the cause of death.
By all accounts, Julian was a gentle man without any enemies. He was on medication for a mild form of schizophrenia and he had been taking it up to his death. If anything, his family said, the medication made him slightly docile. Early reports in the Birmingham press that he was murdered as part of a drugs turf war were nonsense; he had never been in trouble. Why, therefore, he should come to such a terrible end was something that baffled police.
They soon found out, however, that he had befriended a man - platonically - and they believe that one of that man's friends had taken against Julian. Jealousy, detectives believe, may have been the motive for his murder.
The Independent has been given details of the evidence against the suspect, but it is purely circumstantial. There is no forensic evidence linking the man to Julian's death. The police investigation revolved around a telephone call made by Julian, evidence that the suspect may have a predisposition to violence, and the discovery of Julian's watch in the suspect's home.
The suspect said the watch had broken and Julian had asked him to throw it away. Without forensic evidence, the decision not to prosecute anyone at this stage appears to be correct. But it is a painful decision for Julian's family.
"It is a bad feeling in the gut," said his father, Russell Sanders Royle, 45. "Not only because the police have worked so hard, but also because this person is still out there. He has not paid for my son's death and he could well kill again.
"The past 10 months have been terrible for the family. Julian was a lovely lad and we all miss him so much. Unfortunately, we won't even begin to put this behind us until his killer is caught."
When Julian was murdered, the national media took no interest in the case. Now the family want to concentrate on appealing to the public for the tiniest shred of evidence that might bolster West Midlands Police's chances of a conviction.
It is understood the post-mortem examination revealed that Julian's skin had been hit with water from a high-pressure hose. Detectives believe he was killed and decapitated in an isolated farm or industrial outbuilding, but there are thousands across the county.
"We want anyone who rented or lent an outbuilding out last May bank holiday to tell the police," said Avi Sanders Royle, 49, Julian's stepmother. "There may have been unexplained blood in there or some suspicious characters. Any information, no matter how irrelevant it may seem, could help."
A Home Office pathologist, Dr Edmund Tapp, told the inquest that, mercifully, Julian had not been conscious when his head was removed. But he added: "There was a good deal of blood in the lungs, indicating that the deceased was alive when his head was severed."
Recording a verdict of unlawful killing, the coroner, Dr Richard Whittington, said: "This was a savage assault ... brutal, callous. It must have been in some sense premeditated as somebody was armed with horrible weapons put to terrible use."
Detective Inspector Steve Billingham, second in command of the investigation, said the murder was on "cold case review" but was not formally closed. "We still have officers on hand to receive calls and we will investigate any new information people give us," he said.
For Julian's family, the trauma goes on. Mrs Sanders Royle said the police involved in Julian's case had done a fine job, but she has now lost faith in the justice system.
"I take consolation from the fact that whoever murdered Julian is probably in his own private hell," she said. "If he doesn't get justice in this world, he'll get it in the next."
Last week, The Independent tried to speak to the suspect. He refused to be interviewed about the case, repeatedly replying "No comment" to all questions posed.

and after his conviction, this manipulative liar attempts to appeal and say well I was mad! Yes we know but you are still very dangerous, I hope they never let him out!


THE HON MR JUSTICE GIBBS
MR JUSTICE GIBBS : 1. On 16th October 2003 at the Chester Crown Court Maurice John Latus (“the offender”) was convicted, after a retrial, of the offence of murder. I passed a sentence of life imprisonment upon him for that offence.2. On 19th June 2002 at the same court before Mr Justice Stephen Richards (as he then was) the offender had pleaded guilty to wounding with intent to do grievous bodily harm. Two days later, upon being re-arraigned on a separate charge of murder, he pleaded guilty to manslaughter. He was also tried by a jury on the charge of murder referred to at paragraph 1, but the jury failed to agree. He was convicted of attempted murder in relation to a separate incident.3. Two unsuccessful appeals against conviction for murder were made on the offender's behalf, the later appeal being dismissed by the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) on 19th December 2006.4. There were three victims of these offences. The victim of the offences of wounding with intent and of murder was Julian Sanders, a work colleague and friend of the offender. The victim of the manslaughter was Colin Faulkes, the offender's landlord. The victim of the attempted murder was the offender's mother. I now set our a brief chronology of events.5. From about 1985, the offender lived in a rural property in Shropshire known as “The Gatehouse” and owned by Faulkes. The offender alleged that Faulkes had physically and sexually abused him over many years, but that he could not leave the house because he had nowhere to go. The offender's relationship with his mother had been difficult. She had married a much younger man, a pupil of hers, in the early 1980s.6. The offender and Sanders worked together from 1997 onwards and became friends. They saw each other frequently. Sanders suffered abused drugs and was admitted to a mental hospital on two occasions with drug-induced psychosis.7. The first of the offences mentioned above, wounding with intent, took place in February 2000. On 29th February 2000, Sanders attended a Shrewsbury hospital with wounds to the back of his head. There was extensive bruising and swelling to the back of his skull. He said he had fallen down a flight of stairs. The inference is that he colluded with and/or was persuaded by the offender to conceal the truth, namely that the offender had assaulted him. In early April 2000 Sanders was again admitted to a mental hospital, where he remained as an in-patient until late May 2000.8. Sanders then went missing. On 27th or 28th May, the offender killed him. He severed his head from his body with an axe or some other heavy implement with a sharp edge. He then took him in a vehicle to a park just south of Birmingham and left the head and body there. A member of the public discovered them as he was walking his dog early one morning. This killing eventually led to the offender's conviction for murder.9. Shortly afterwards, the offender was arrested for the murder, but released. Soon after his release, he killed Faulkes. This led to his plea of guilty to manslaughter on the ground of diminished responsibility. On 12th May, he attempted to kill his mother. His plea of guilty to an offence under S18 of the Offences Against The Person Act in relation to this offence was not accepted, and he was convicted of attempted murder. Both attacks were carried out in a similar way, namely with an axe or some similar weapon.10. It now falls to me to determine the minimum term to be served by the offender, pursuant to Schedule 22 paragraph 6 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003. In setting the appropriate term I must take into account the seriousness of the offence, and in doing so must consider the general principles in Schedule 21 of the 2003 Act. I must have regard to the recommendation which, as trial judge, I made to the Lord Chief Justice, namely sixteen years. Because of the change in procedure at the time, the Lord Chief Justice did not consider the recommendation, and the Home Secretary did not fix a tariff. I must have regard to the guidelines applicable at the time of the offence and must ensure that the term set complies with Article 7 of the European Convention on Human Rights (Schedule 22/8(a)) and the guidance provided by the Consolidated Criminal Practice Direction (29th July 2004) (“the CCPD”) paragraph IV.49, so as to ensure that the sentence does not breach the principle of retroactivity. The CCPD explains the correct approach to looking at the practice of the Home Secretary before December 2002 for the purpose of Schedule 22 of the 2003 Act, in the light of the judgment in R v Sullivan, Gibbs, Elener and Elener (2005) 1 Cr App R 3. I have also had regard to the provisions of section 67 of the Criminal Justice Act 1967 relating to the time spent in custody on remand.11. I have read and considered Victim Impact Statements from the offender's mother; from Russell Sanders Royle, the father of Julian Sanders; and Charles Foulkes, the father of Colin Foulkes. The statement of Mr. Royle is of particular relevance, as his son was the victim of the case I am now considering. I have also considered written representations made on the offender's behalf.12. Under the principles set out in Schedule 21, the starting point for determination of the minimum term is 15 years. Whilst the offence had horrifying aspects, none of the features set out in paragraphs 4(2) or 5(2) of the Schedule were present. Accordingly the 15 year starting point provided by paragraph 6 applies, subject to increase or reduction for aggravating or mitigating features, examples of which were set out.13. Since the murder was committed before 1st June 2002, the appropriate starting point indicated as appropriate by the CCPD in determining the practice of the Secretary of State at the material time is to be assessed by reference to the letter of guidance dated 10th February 1997 sent by Lord Bingham, then Chief Justice, to the judges. This letter provided a starting point for an “average” or “unexceptional” murder of 14 years, but subject to increase or reduction for aggravating or mitigating features, examples of which were set out.14. I considered, when making my recommendation about the minimum term following sentence, the aggravating and mitigating features as they appeared to me at that time. This recommendation was based on the Practice Statement of Lord Woolf, handed down on 31st May 2002. That Practice Statement was formulated in different terms from the guidance in Lord Bingham's letter. The CCPD (which post-dated the sentence) made it clear that the latter rather than the former which applied to the present case. Further, the CCPD provides that I should have regard to the principles in Schedule 21, which was not in force when sentence was passed in this case. Accordingly, whilst keeping in mind my original recommendation, I think it appropriate to consider afresh the length of the minimum term appropriate to the seriousness of the offence.15. As it seems to me, this offence is significantly more serious that the “average” or “unexceptional” murder for which Lord Bingham considered a starting point of 14 years appropriate. Whilst the offender did not have a criminal record for violence, he had quite soon before the murder carried out a very serious and potentially lethal attack on the same victim. As regards the facts of the murder, the precise events leading up to it cannot be fully known. After his conviction and sentence, the offender admitted that he had killed the victim, and gave an account of what happened. The offender's account led to his second unsuccessful appeal against conviction, in which the Court of Appeal was invited to hear fresh evidence from the offender's psychiatrist to show that, had the full facts been known at trial, the offender might have been found not guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.16. The Court of Appeal declined to hear fresh evidence. The Court was presented with the offender's explanations about why the issue of mental illness had not been raised before. The court observed (paragraph 29 of the judgment): “….these explanations demonstrate what the prosecution have fairly described as a deliberate tactical decision not allow the offence of diminished responsibility to be investigated because the appellant believed he had a good chance of acquittal based on his denial of any responsibility. We cannot accept the submission that it was the mental illness which gave rise to these attempts to evade responsibility. Moreover the appellant's conduct after the killing, by way of attempting to dispose of the body and by his persistent denials of involvement tend to confirm the statement he made to Dr Collins that 'he hoped to get away with it'. He persisted in his denial following his arrest for the killing of Faulkes and his “hope” succeeded to the extent of a jury disagreement on the Sanders count at the first trial. The appellant persisted in denying involvement at the time of the retrial at which he was convicted and until his application for leave had been refused.”17. When making my original recommendation, I gave weight to the likelihood that the offender was under the influence of mental illness or of some personality disorder at the time. I am still of that view; but in the light of the subsequent course of events and the conclusions drawn from them by the Court of Appeal, the weight to be given in mitigation to the mental state of the offender is limited. He has shown that he is devious and manipulative. These qualities are reflected in his actions after the killing. I note that, having admitted responsibility for the death of Sanders, the offender denied an intention to kill. On the evidence, I do not regard that denial as credible.18. As regards aggravating features, in my original recommendation I identified the brutal, deliberate and calculated manner of the killing, the previous attack, the planning involved in the disposal of the body and the efforts to conceal the evidence. I would add that, whilst this was not a case of “macabre…dismemberment of the body after death” (an aggravating feature mentioned by Lord Bingham: see CCPD IV.49.19 (11)), the very fact of causing death by decapitation is an especially horrifying feature of the case. This feature is referred to in Mr Royle's victim impact statement.19. Balancing the aggravating and mitigating features against one another, I have concluded that the minimum period to be fixed before the early release provisions are to apply should be 18 years. In my judgment the aggravating features very substantially outweigh the mitigating features. The time spent in custody on remand was 2 years 5 months and 2 days. Pursuant to the 1967 Act, this time must be deducted form the minimum period. Accordingly the minimum period will be fixed at 15 years 6 months and 28 days.20. I would add this. The question of whether, if at all, the offender is ever released, depends not primarily on the seriousness of the offence, but on an assessment long in the future of whether the offender remains dangerous. That will be for others to decide, not me. But when I made my original recommendation, I said: “As a consequence of his personality disorder and/or psychiatric illness the defendant is likely to represent a serious danger for the indefinite future”. I remain of that view. The fact that after this murder, the offender killed another person, and attempted to kill his mother, indicates the extent of that danger. The appellant's mother, one of his victims, remains sympathetic to him; but considers that she would be at risk were he ever released. I consider that she and others would be at serious risk for the foreseeable future.

449 comments:

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Cláudia said...

Ok, I needed this in this surreal night! :-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, I have no idea! LOL

hope4truth said...

Claudia

Good point...

x

docmac said...

Hope

How right you are. I said over and again she needs help. She refused to acknowledge any problem. I fear for her, I really do. As I do for her daughter.

hope4truth said...

Doc

People never want to admit when they have a problem...

x

Cláudia said...

Doc, I agree about the daughter.

docmac said...

"This forum was opened to support the parents of Madeleine McCann"

This quote posted by by Poops at 12:46pm yesterday on the pink forum says it all really, Claudia.

Cláudia said...

Oh really? Well, I'm glad Poops clarified that. Because I could never guess that was the purpose of that forum...

Unknown said...

Hiya guys - how typical that they kicked Jane Gin and Tonic out too, she was very obviously unwell and relied on them for company. Her welfare and that of her daughter are a cause for concern, but only to normal people.

How dare they start speculating who can help me spend my money! I can take care of that all by myself thanks, oh and by the way I did not work for a "company" - I was a Probation Officer! Why dont these stupid people just butt out of my business that they know nothing about.

Good luck to Sass and she is well rid of them, I do admire her for making a break from people who clearly were not doing the Mc Canns any favours at all!


xxxx

Unknown said...

PS Sorry I could not respond to you earlier on, Martin arrived to give my computer some major surgery. It is flying again!

xxxx

Cláudia said...

Viv, today has been 'crazey'! LOL

Unknown said...

Hiya darling

I just had a look at ST's blog and frankly I just cannot believe that a 65 year old woman could write such petty rubbish and get dragged into all these silly conspiracies between the various characters on blogs! What a silly old sod! Does she miss her school days??


xxxxxxxx

docmac said...

H.A.L.L.O. Viv

I was just going to retire now. For the second time in 2 months :-))) You do keep odd hours.

Unknown said...

Hiya Doc, I have only just been able to log in, and no emails at present as my old hard drive needs putting back in as well as the new one! Which will happen tomorrow, I hope!

xxx

Cláudia said...

Viv, if they were crazy before, now there are no words to describe.

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

It is all very odd isnt it???

xxx

Cláudia said...

Doc, I was also going to go to bed. Do you think that's enough for some making up in the 'crazey' blog?

Unknown said...

Hiya Hope

I am torn between thinking these people are just nutty psychos who just cannot stay friends with anyone or that they are actually on our side but have a bizarre way of going about it. If I was kate and Gerry I would be paying them to shut up! I most definitely do not want them on here anyway!

docmac said...

I said retiring, Claudia. I did not mention bed :-))

Crazey, hazey, dozey. Whatever.

Cláudia said...

Ok, queridos amigos.
Bed it is.
Durmam bem e beijinhos, Viv and Doc.
Boa noite, all.

hope4truth said...

Viv

That is why I thought ST was an anti made alot of them show they are nasty pieces of work...

xxx

docmac said...

The fund has spent some of the public's money particularly unwisely, Viv.

docmac said...

Boa retiremente, Claudia :-))

hope4truth said...

Goodnight all I dont think I will be going to work very early tomorrow xxx

docmac said...

Goodnight Hope.

Unknown said...

Hiya Hope,

I think he just gets a kick out of stalking people and causing trouble .. probably lapping up all those barmy posts:-)))

If he can make the whole blog scene about the McCanns look stupid that is a result for him, I would say, but only the Pros are playing ball..

docmac said...

Viv, just sent you 8 e-mails. Vitally important that you answer immediately.

Unknown said...

Hiya Doc

Some people are real suckers for manipulation, and those who seek to do the manipulating have an over inflated ego, believing it will work like a charm.

This blog and many others, including 3 As and Claudia's for example have shown them how foolish they were with that money!

Not everyone is a gullible twit who can have a row with his/her own shadow!

Boa Noite Claudia and Hope

It is OK for me and Doc, retired, as it were!

xxxxxx

Unknown said...

Doc, I cannot get to my private email address tonight!

But you could send them to Felicity:-)))

docmac said...

I forgot about Felicity, Viv. She was having the best rest of her life last time I heard :-)))

Was just tugging your leg ;-)
Jeez, having no access to e-mail is the pits, eh?

Unknown said...

Doc, I know what is best for Felicity:-))))

docmac said...

OK, just to test Felicity's e-mail address I have sent her a fantastic picture taken at the Royal Cape Yacht Club :-)

Unknown said...

WHOOPS I will try again!

The Independent has learned that Julian's murder file has been put on "cold case review". That means officers will investigate new evidence if it comes in, but they have stopped searching for the perpetrator. They believe they know who killed Julian, but they can't prove it.


But Julian's killer is now serving his life sentence!



JUSTICE FOR MADDIE XXXXXXXXX

docmac said...

Sent another test picture to Felicity. Who the hell are the Irwins? And did they take some of the 24 pictures?

docmac said...

Paul Allen's 'smaller' boat is in town. Another picture taken on Saturday in CT.

Unknown said...

Doc, thanks I emailed you back about that, given the Irwin's booked the Tapas restuarant at the same time as the TAPAS 9 (yes guys there was no tenth TAPAS) how come we have not heard of any statement from them, or the other couple who booked at 9 pm?

Lol smaller yacht!

docmac said...

Felicity has mail. But this one is going to bed!

Sleep tight.

Unknown said...

Hiya Doc

Well it would seem the people who took those photos could well be the Irwin couple who booked the TAPAS at 8.30 the same time as the TAPAS 9 or the Spenney couple who booked at 9 pm. The release of this is going to get them some hassle I would imagine as journos track them down!

Unknown said...

Curious the way ST just has to keep defending Rosiepoops, I just cannot even hazard a guess why:-)))

Sorry Superpooper, you are both a couple of non-stalking sweeties, with no personality disorder, whatsoever xxxxxxx

Unknown said...

Boa noite Doc, sleep well and thanks very much for the TAPAS booking form!

xxxxxxx

Unknown said...

"This forum was opened to support the parents of Madeleine McCann, to point ut the ridiculous unfounded statements of some insane antis and to keep on the tails on the grossly inept PJ and one in particular, who should just not be let off of the hook and this is what it is going to do."

Rosiepops

Not one single word about little Madeleine, what a truly horrible person who cannot even acnowledge the evidence provided by both Eddie and Keela who marked the exact same spot behind the sofa. You can keep calling us insane, but do you think anyone is listening to you??

hope4truth said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
hope4truth said...

Oh Dear God

"This forum was opened to support the parents of Madeleine McCann, to point ut the ridiculous unfounded statements of some insane antis and to keep on the tails on the grossly inept PJ and one in particular, who should just not be let off of the hook and this is what it is going to do."

Rosiepops

What about Madeleine you evil evil person... Gerry and Kate if innocent have nothing to fear. They were even smiling smiles of pure joy on many occasions not long after tellin the world they believed thier daugter was in the hands of a peadophile ring!!!!!!

I cant thik of another case when children have gone missing that the parents have been turned into the victims...

You bloody fools from day one it was not convincing (although at that time I thought you were discusting for leaving your children alone) but very soon you showed yourselves as the selfish people you are.

MADELEINE IS THE VICITM OF YOUR NEGLECT AND GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE HAPPEND TO HER...

I am not going to pretend to know if it was an accident or worse but those dogs have shown there was a body and found blood..

No one would want to be accused of something they had not done but honestly if my child were missing I could not give a toss what people thought of me I would be too busy searching... But you have never looked have you? Not even in the first few minutes what kind of people are you???

dylan said...

Good morning Hope,

How are you? Goodness, a late night last night and up early this morning too?!

I agree entirely with what you say. I can't and will never understand why people so doggedly defend and "support" the McCanns when they don't need it and completely overlook the fate of Madeleine. Unless, of course they are friends or family......

Madeleine deserved so much more. She deserved to be looked after on holiday, she deserved to be included on her holiday. She deserved to be searched for by her parents if she really had gone missing. She didn't deserve to have HER fund money spent on a mortgage (why didn't they sell their house?) and if she really was abducted, she didn't deserve to see her parents' smiling, happy faces on TV. I wonder if any of these supposed pro sites (which are certainly not pro Madeleine) ever posted about M? I don't recall seeing anything remotely caring about what the poor child must be going through, if, as they believe, she was abducted.

And now their blog has turned on itself. No surprise there. Contempt breeds contempt and now there is no trust left. Funny how they always say we are afraid of Viv??! Now we know which blog controls the puppets and it's not this one ;-)

Have a good day all.

xx

Niki said...

Amaral in Vigo: "Justice is Possible for Madeleine McCann" Faro de Vigo (no online link, appears in paper edition only)

04 October 2008
Thanks to Joana Morais for translation

The Former Coordinator of the Judicial Police talked about the different paths taken by both the Portuguese and English police forces, of the feeling that it was an investigation destined to be archived, of the role of the media in a case which turned out to be extremely media focussed…

"I thought, after my removal – said Mr. Amaral – that if the authorities from the country where the girl was born, certainly, never opened an inquest for her, if they did not want to know what happened to her and if they endorsed the abduction thesis, why should I worry? Our work is out in the open on the process files, destroying them is the only way to erase the record of what was done. It's still possible that Justice can be done, for example if anyone from the group of the nine friends decides to talk."

Niki said...

Whops! Sorry for beeing so roud...

Hi everyone:)
and bye everyone:)))

Cláudia said...

Good morning, all.

I would just like to say that I was 'contacted' on my blog on the "8 de Setembro de 2008 1:15". It was almost a month ago. Let's keep in mind that I kept my mouth shut for almost a month, because I thought those were problems between pros. Although ST was the 'creator/instigator' of the supposed 'mole', I thought that to be true to myself I could not behave the same way. Had I been one of the sick pros who now turn on those who used to be their best friends in the world, the message I got on my blog would have been copy pasted here in a matter of seconds, for all to see and so we could have some easy laughs. But the person who contacted me put a 'not for publication' request, which I respected. As did some others who have contacted me before and after that.

hope4truth said...

Hello ALL xxxx

Dyl Dont knwo what is going on I was wide awake last night cleaning and sorting things out and thought I would not bother with work today but then found myself wide awake at 6 took delivery of a new dishwasher at 8 and have had a very productive day so far (this is my first break all day) really fired up???

Will probebely be in bed by 7 LOL

xxxx

Unknown said...

Hiya

One amusing thing I just noticed, if you look at the document properties for ST's post Notdoc I beg to differ posted in September you can see that it was created on 10 JUNE 2008, now I wonder why it took him so long to actually publish it!

Nice to know you continue to worry them so much Doc, in fact obsession!

Di said...

Good evening Viv & all,

Sorry, I have not been around for a couple of days, I have just taken the time to look back!!!!!!

What is going on?

Doc, you must be soooo worrying them :o))

Di said...

Hi Viv

Not long now to the hols, am I jealous, noooyesss ;o))

Cláudia said...

Mum21 said...
Give it a rest Claudia...the show is now over.
You certainly do like to milk things down to the very last drop.
Any pro who contacted you in confidence....is certainly no TRUE pro.
You have been had!
------------------------------------------------------------------

Get something into your thick skull, you ugly racist hag. You do not control anything I write. If I want to post about this until I get blue in the face I can do it. Here (if Viv aloows it), on my blog, or on any other blg which exist or which may exist in the future.
You and your mob have been exposed. And it was about time. You or the queen bee do not represent true pros. True pros just believe the McCanns are completely innocent and you would certainly disgust the vast majority of them. You are righ wing, xenophobic, racist, pathological personalities. Now go on and bash your ex best friends a bit more. But don't forget to stick the knife really deep.

Di said...

Claudia

Ooooooooohhhhhh.

Perhaps, when they leave the building they could remember to shut the door and turn the lights out. CREDIT CRUNCH!!

Cláudia said...

Hello, all.
What a loooong afternoon.
Hope you're all fine.

Cláudia said...

Di, they're used to control what people write in the pink sewer and think they can also control what we write here or on other blogs. Let's not forget that ST's main goal was to stop us from blogging and controlling what Viv and her posters say.

docmac said...

Rosiepops said...

Helen

You opened by saying that I insulted you, I didn't, that is all I am going to say.

And then she tags on another 1300 words! And no, I did not count them :-)

ROTFLMAO!!

docmac said...

Geez, Claudia

What got into your milk? :-)))

Just got here and have to go again. May be back later.

Hi Di.

Di said...

Hi Claudia

Well I for one will say exactly what I want to say and when. To be honest I don't go there so only read what is posted here. However, they don't seem of sound mind.

I am very worried though, about Labour wanting to push the law through to watch all e-mail activity and internet activity, purchases on-line etc., Big brother or what!

Cláudia said...

Doc, can't let an ugly, pathological bitch think she can tell me what to comment on.

Football is also almost on, here. :-)

Di said...

Hi & Bye Doc

Cláudia said...

Di, maybe if Big Brother was on watch the evening of the 3rd of May 2007, things would have been different. Not saying that I agree with it. Just saying that it could have been useful then. :-)

Di said...

Claudia

I believe the PJ & LP have the exact phone records and possibly text messages as well. Hopefully, these are being held back from the DVD and released files. Perhaps for any future trial, or is it just wishful thinking on my part.

Di said...

This is interesting

LINK

Cláudia said...

Di, let's hope it's not wishful thinking. :-)

BBL.

Di said...

Off myself, see you all tomorrow.

Enjoy your evening everyone.

docmac said...

For those who are reluctant to have their daughters vaccinated against HPV read this.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

You remember the article in my local rag which you commented on, you may find interesting the reactions of readers if you go back in.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/
commentandanalysis/3726309.Why_I_
won_t_let_my_girls_have_these_cancer
_jabs/

Anonymous said...

Hallo all

Interesting to read all the comments on the article,ICTOAN, thank you for posting.I guess it is every single person's decision. And I respect the differences of opinion.

I cannot comment on what many people have been posting re Sass etc. I do not know the history or the names.

May there be justice for all little kids suffering right now all over the world.

docmac said...

ICTOAN

The original letter demonstrated a rather alarming degree of ignorance and risk-taking by the writer. The 'aluminum / aluminium comment was hilarious!!

Many of the comments were sensible and well thought out. Then again, others were not.

The comments by the poster called 'notasheeple' were particularly hard to stomach. Until I reached the bottom and found that he or she is a naturopathy student. So all those posts can be discounted then (IMHO of course :-)). Actually, I'm being polite. I have no time for these weird pseudo-science subjects at all.

The doctor that posted should be ashamed at himself for rubbishing clinical trials. I suspect he may be the partner of the naturopathy student.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

Thanks for your observations.
I will archive the material including the article you posted just in case the question arises in regard to my granddaughters. Although I will not interfere unless I am invited to as is my policy with my children.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

BWT

Has the big boat blotted out the horizon.

Unknown said...

Hiya all

Claudia, I think they long since gave up trying to shut this blog down. Your sentiments re Mum maybe strongly expressed but I certainly could not disagree:-))) It is the loathesome racist comments on the Daily Express that I particularly remember her for. There was certainly a strong presence of BNP supporters on the DE and it maybe this is the sewer she crawled out of, seeing a good opportunity to bash foreigners! The DE would quite often play up to these people by writing articles that were simply not acceptable in a civilised Society. We do not forget how many times she has fallen out with RP, it is always the same when you get two aggressive control freaks together.

Di

I think it is perfectly possible that UK have additional evidence against the McCanns that was not handed over to the Portuguese authorities for fear it would be released with their file of papers. If such evidence were to come into the public domain it could give the McCanns the defence of saying they could no longer get a fair trial because it has all been aired very publically and people have already found them guilty on the basis of it. We have had the technology to track people via their mobile phones etc for literally years and any mobile company, credit card company must hand information over to the police in UK. So it is safe to assume we do have it. I continue to believe there is so much offending here and this case is so complex it is still being investigated. The CPS and Police will also be mindful that there are clear gaps in the evidence due to the TAPAS9 refusing to give honest evidence about what really took place. This is bound to make it very difficult to clearly establish precisely what happened to Madeleine and it is of course known they would leave no stone unturned in defending themselves. In short the Police know what they are up against with these two and also will have to make sure they, in turn, leave no stone unturned.

x

docmac said...

Oh yes, I will send a picture to Viv and she can send it on. It's actually parked up near Robben Island which is about 11km from me, so she does not appear that enormous to the naked eye. Until other ships come into or leave the bay.

Unknown said...

Doc, thanks for the link to the very interesting discoveries made by the French in the fight against immune deficiency diseases like HIV and cervical cancer. If I had a young daughter she would get no choice about having that jab! I cannot see why any sensible parent would want to take that risk with their child.

Viv x

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

I see you have a couple of new fans on ST's site. Or maybe they are morphs.

docmac said...

Viv

Nobel prizes in Medicine are usually very well deserved.

ICTOAN

Are they having a pyjama party or something?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I don't know but they both claim to be virgins.

docmac said...

Well I don't know them then.

Cláudia said...

Viv, Bum is ugly inside and out.

"ModNrodder said...
Cheers ST. I'm a sort of happy fool so Norman fits the bill!!

Heard about Docmac but had not familiarised myself with him until recently. Seems he has a lot to say about a few people I know that dont even know him. I have a picture in my mind of a hospital janator who has delusions of grandeur of being a Doctor. s'why all the hospital staff call him Doc and he wears a Mac while he works. He is a bit unhealthy sounding isn't he? I can see him flashing people in the hospital coridor. Funny instead of these folk looking away embarresed, they throw coins to him!! lol."

Another one who was too busy to go to primary scholl. :-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hey Claudia

Did you see that one of them has sussed me out as a thickie.

Goody Goody! She (I think I have the gender correct) seems just the sort of person who enjoys mocking the afflicted.

docmac said...

LOL! I can't even see that site at the moment. My proxy has taken a dislike to it. Wonder why?

ICTOAN I have sent two pics to Viv to send on to you.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Thanks Doc I look forward to seeing them.

Unknown said...

Poor Jane has been allowed a post on ST and confirms that most of their posters got banned! They have to send an email if they want to say something or else! Free speech Rosie/ST/MumfromHell, you would not recognise it if it jumped up and bit you on the Bum!

The dross has now been shuffled over to ST's little hole and clearly from the elephantine rants from RP they are not happy about the information we have and chats about it. Come, come RP do you begrudge people a good laugh!
You are so good at providing one!

Mum21
why would sass have anything to do with my banning from rosie's site? She had I gather left it by then. You banned me for no valid reason. I disagreed with points and said so in rare posts. That is not a banning offence. I have sent private emails, as have you and all of us, but these were not part of the 'blogging process' at all. As you know we were always encouraged to sent an email or pm if we wanted to say something. this I did.

Sass does not know about my being banned by you....her email offering a 'truce' to you all was ignored and denied also which is shameful. You also seem with other mods to act on emails which were privately sent, not put on any forum at all.

How can you justify use of such material not sent to you, to ban helen and archer = the mildest of people who also did nothing 'wrong', except 'wrong' now is regarded as any kind of dissent or disagreement on posts...changed days then...followed by kateno51 and .....I won't go on.

Unknown said...

I have to allow myself a wry smile that they accuse me of doing precisely what they do themselves.

There is no vetting, no emailing, no asking for permission, people just write what they want to write!

xx

Unknown said...

Strange you should say that Doc! My protection programme flashed up a warning when I went to navigate to troll's blog.

SO PLEASE ALL OF YOU MAKE SURE YOU HAVE REALLY GOOD ANTI VIRUS PROTECTION ETC IF YOU VISIT THAT HOLE

docmac said...

No big deal to me, Viv :-)

I'm kind of bushed and off to bed. Goodnight all.

Unknown said...

Nite doc

dorme bem amigo x

Cláudia said...

Always makes me smile to read you before I go to bed. :-))))
Viv, that place is just amazing! ;-)

Durmam bem, queridos amigos.
Beijinhos.

Sleep well, all. Boa noite.

ratonthebeam said...

So now it looks as if no-one is allowed to post anything anywhere on that forum, unless it toes the party line! Talk about control freaks, it obviously runs in the family. The bullying, the abuse, the need for total control over what other people say and do and think; now where have we all seen that before?

I am surprised that ST is allowing all the refugees on his site though. Wasn't that what he accused you of, Viv - taking in wasters that had nowhere else to go? Hahahahaha. Karma in action. I love it!

ratonthebeam said...

Oh, and I forgot to mention the taking of all the credit for other peoples' work, a la Amber Alert. Typical McScum tactics!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Good morning All

The David Payne thread on 3A is getting more and more interesting.

Cláudia said...

Good morning all.

Rat, it's hilarious!

The best part is that it is now taking the kind of posters it described as "They are a load of illiterate trash. I just looked in on the chatbox...and I could not believe what I read. That clairesy spent 5 minutes talking to herself like this " yer...ok hun". No wonder none of us bother much with it anymore. I don't even post on the forum at the moment. I am no snob...but these people really are the pits".

Yes, That clairesy = load of illiterate trash! ROTFLMAO!

hope4truth said...

Morning ALL

Oh dear is RP becoming paranoid she may have a mole and cant work out who it is??? Maybe there is more than one mole RP???

I must admit reading most of you back on the DX I wanted you to post more and more anyone who was decent could see most of you were racist old hags and bully's to boot (no one likes a bully)...

I hope the site does not disapear completly with friends like you lot the McCanns dont need enemies you make them look guilty as hell...

Has mumfromhell been banned again then or did I read that wrong???

I am off into a meeting will read back later...

have a nice day all xxx

hope4truth said...

Well I am glad I did not wait for a reply where are you all???

Wherever it is I hope you are having fun xxx

ratonthebeam said...

Oh dear. Sassy put up another new post. It looks like the rest of the pink sewer inhabitants are really going for the throat. FGS, why???? What harm did Sassy ever do? I've never agreed with her, but there's no need for any of this. The control freakery going around is really quite astonishing (and scary!)

Di said...

Hello Hope

I have looked in a few times today, but did not post, maybe everyone is busy.

I have to say the situation the Banks are in is not looking too good. I know of several people with investments in Icesave who are very worried.

Hopefully everything will work out.

hope4truth said...

HELLO DI and RAT

The banks are looking shakey thankfully I have no money in Icesave but the stocks are low (good time to buy bad time to sell) I dont think I will bother to do either...

Poor Sass as you say Rat I am sure she did nothing to deserve what is happening what kind of people are these...

You know more than anyone how low they can sink...

xxx

Di said...

Hi Rat

I remember Sassy from DE days, I never had anything against her. Mind you I did not post as often as everyone else, i preferred to read.

Do you think they are trying to close the site down??

I think several truths are coming into the domain now that certain people are very afraid of!

By the way Rat, do we know anymore about the photos taken at the Tapas Bar on 3rd May.

Also I wish someone would be able to put all the information retrieved from the DVD on one thread, locked and without comments, so that it would make it easier for everyone to read. At the moment everything is all over the place :o))

Viv.

Thanks for the explanation last night regarding text messages and phonecalls. Let's hope LP have the guts to get to the truth.

ratonthebeam said...

Hello Di and Hope!

I know that the 24 photos do exist and that they completely destroy the McCann timeline. I don't know anymore than that yet.

Actually I feel sorry for Sassy. I know how vicious the girly gang can be, but they are even more vicious when turning on one of their own. They are worse than animals IMHO.

Di said...

Hi Rat

So, I presume they either never left the table, or certain people were missing for longer than expected!! Do you think these photos will come to light?

hope4truth said...

Sass

Of course your not an Anti and I have looked at the other site your friend Sian has and it is certainly not Anti so why they are trying to make you so miserable is beyond me...???

Stick to what you belive and stuff the rest of them comes to something when you have to start a blog to answer the idiots???

You are right about one thing they are doing this loud and clear and we are laughing at how stupid they are but no one is laughing at you so hold your head up and keep doing what you belive in no one should ever be allowed to impose what you should or should not think and belive in..

xxx

ratonthebeam said...

It's whether the PJ and LP have the balls to act on the photos, is the problem. Sadly, I am not holding my breath :(

Cláudia said...

Hello, all!
Hope you're all ok!
Have been reading some interesting stuff. :-)

I have no doubts that Sass is more hated than any of us 'anti'. For us to dare to defy the queen bee is something normal. For a pro with a brain to do it, well, it's just unforgivable. I would even say it's not helpful at all. Outrageous, really. Ludicrous, even. :-)

hope4truth said...

Hi Claudia

Where have you been reading intresting stuff or is it a secret LOL xxx

Di said...

Rat :o(((((((

What is the hold over these people? more importantly, just what are they afraid of revealing?

Off to watch tv bbl.

Cláudia said...

Hope, top secret! ;-)

hope4truth said...

Claudia

No Fair !!!!!!!!

On the day you reveal everything please let me know :o)

xxx

dylan said...

Hi Di (just realised that rhymes :-), good to see you back again, Hi Rat and Hope too!

What has happened to poor Sass now? Why can't they just leave her alone? It seems to be a tactic of the sewer blog, once an objection is raised about a post or poster, that they can't let sleeping dogs lie (that applies in particular to Eddie and Keela!). How horrible for Sass to be dragged through their merciless mill and wrung out to dry on a public blog. Sass, hang in there girl and stick to your ethics. Your views may not be the same as ours but your ethics are, at a guess, and nobody has the right to bully you in such a crude and callous way when you have done nothing to deserve it. x

Have a good evening all. I'll try and pop in later. This end of Norwich has been a wee bit busy lately, and I'm good for bed around 9.30 these days. zzzzzzz

xx

dylan said...

Hi Claudia :-))))

Cláudia said...

Hi, Dyl. I hope all's well with you! :-)

Hope, just kidding.
Was just reading some things from the files. There's a lot on 3A. Too much info to take in. :-)

hope4truth said...

Claudia LOL

Well I am sure you know more than I do :o) xxx

Dyl

I have been bouncing for since Sunday night went to work at 6am this morning intending to finish early and was still going at 4pm???

Maybe Mr Hope has slipped something into my Pepsi Max LOL

How come you are so busy???

xxx

Cláudia said...

Well, Hope, I can tell you that people who have dealt with Madeleine in the creche say that she was also called Maddie. One of the people even says that Madeleine íntroduced herself as Maddie/Maddy.

dylan said...

Hope, lol! You do know what they used to put in cola don't you?!
I've not been up to much really but I just don't know where the time goes. xxxx's homework is not something I can just give a few moments thought to anymore if he needs help as my A Level chemistry is very rusty, there's a mountain of stuff to in the evenings and I'm just tired out quite early on. Maybe I'm coming down with a bug or something!

Claudia, what's being said over on the 3A's? I know they had an excess of posts, is there a new thread now that's of interest?

xx

Cláudia said...

Dylan, the problem is that there are two many interesting threads and finding the good info is not always easy. :-)

hope4truth said...

Claudia

It is only recently there has been all this fuss about "Maddie" ???

It is not something we made up people were calling her Maddie from day one..

Now they say they never called her that but I do remember people saying she hated it around October last year???

I know one person called Madeleine and we shorten her name to Mads so I am sure lots of people shorten Madeleine especialy when a child is young and finds it hard to pronounce a long name...

I gave my girls short names so they could not be shortend and now I have nick names for them (hey my Mum still calls me Florence?)...

xxx

dylan said...

Hope,

Gerry called her "Maddie" in one of his freinds network blogs back in the days when she had no siblings. I think Docmac posted that.

Claudia, I thought as much. I must go and have a trawl sometime but I've always found it hard to navigate. Is there anything new?
xx

dylan said...

Hope,

Do you remember "Magic Roundabout"? Think there was a Dylan too ;-) xx

Cláudia said...

Dylan, I honestly don't knoe. Have read too much info, today.

Hope, they lied about the Maddie thing. Gerry referred to Madeleine as Maddie as did several members of her family and friends. Kate recently attacked Mr Amaral for using the name Maddie in his book saying it was something made up by the media and that they never called her that, which is a lie.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Interesting that Paulo Reis has had a letter from Carter-Ruck threatening legal action unless he stops writing about the case.

dylan said...

Claudia, one of many lies.

ICTOAN, has he? That is interesting. Must be a bit too close to the Mark55!

xx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Dylan

There is a thread on 3A.

Another "don't miss" is the David Payne one much more info coming out there.

ratonthebeam said...

Gerry's own Reunited entry called her "Maddie" from the time she was born.

hope4truth said...

DYl

Loved the Magic Roundabout even my bedroom had M R wall paper do you remeber the theme tune??

do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do LOL

Dylan was the hippy rabbit who was allways stoned Love it xxx

dylan said...

Thanks, ICTOAN.

I'll have a look tomorrow & the David Payne info will be well worth a read. If you can, a link would be great as I can never find things over there through lack of use on my behalf!

xx

hope4truth said...

Claudia

Maybe they are now trying to created conspiracy theories where there are none...

i.e If we argue every point the truth will become more blured??

xxx

dylan said...

Florence,

Yes I do!! It was all great stuff! I remember Dylan too being the stoned rabbit and I hasten to add that I do not get stoned ;-) Florence was the sensible one! xx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

dylan

The first of 86 pages (so far) is:

http://www.the3arguidos.net/forum/
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=23235

bath theory said...

CSI MIami

dylan said...

Hope,

Link for you: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DcChXNyYQ&feature=related

Claudia, have a watch too if you want to have a laugh about our 1970s English children's programmes!

xx

Di said...

Claudia

I agree with you, it is difficult to keep up with the info on 3A's.
I have asked Rat if it would be possible to try to gather the info off the DVD onto one thread but without comments, as they always seem to derail threads.

hope4truth said...

Bloody Hell DYL

That is it Mum has allways called me Florence and she never knew why since I can remeber I bet it is because of the Magic Roundabout...

Cant wait to tell her later when she phones (Parents on a beach somewher very hot) xxx

dylan said...

Thank you ICTOAN, I've added it to my faves for a read in the morning.

Hi BT!

xx

bath theory said...

Hi all , it looks a good one so will watch it. My wife has started a Masters and I am principal carer as well as doing a full time teaching job thus I have scaled back my time on here - sorry but my children obviously come first and spare time is what I will have in a year.

I just love Horatio's character in CSI Miami. Cheers all

dylan said...

Hope lolololol!

I hope they're having a great time :-)

xx

dylan said...

BT, good luck to your wife. She'll get loads from it I can guarantee. As for time with your children, of course they come first. I wouldn't expect any different from anyone who posts here and I wish you luck with all.

I am off for a spot of telly time now before I fall asleep. Really hope I'm not sickening for something. Have a food night everyone. Nite xx

lol, just noticed "food" night!!! I think it's a good substitution for "good" :-)))))

Di said...

ICTOAN

Thanks for bringing Carter-Ruck's threat to PJR out in the open here.

So, we now know it is pretty obvious the McCann's are very, very worried. PJR having the dvd knows too much, and will reveal all :o))

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Di

I expect the McChimps will make much of him starting a new job in Macau.

Di said...

BT

We will miss your input but family must come first.

I do hope you will post as and when you can.

Good luck to your wife with her Masters Degree.

Di said...

ICTOAN

:o((((

Di said...

I don't know if anyone else is having a problem today but I am not able to copy and paste off 3A's.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Di

Yes I can copy and paste from 3A.


Jez Wilkins statement - Gerry lied

by cushty on Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:34 pm
I don't think this has been commented on before - apologies if it has

Wilkins comments on Gerry as he and Bridget found him when they met up with the Tapas9 in the bar 'his gregarious character making him appear to be the central figure in the group and almost holding court. However,they did notice that David Payne was equally gregarious and almost playing along with, if not up to, Gerry.'

I'm not sure he liked him much


more to the point, Wilkins states that he and Gerry spoke for only 3 minutes outside the steps to 5A - he did not know the time, as he had been wandering about for some time

docmac said...

Evening all. Just got in a short while ago and it seems I have missed most. Just a quick one for now:

Mum21 said...

Cláudia said...
Hello, all!
Hope you're all ok!
Have been reading some interesting stuff. :-)

I have no doubts that Sass is more hated than any of us 'anti'. For us to dare to defy the queen bee is something normal. For a pro with a brain to do it, well, it's just unforgivable. I would even say it's not helpful at all. Outrageous, really. Ludicrous, even. :-)

Tuesday, 7 October 2008 19:55:00 o'clock BST

You better start doubting then Claudia...because I hate nobody.
I certainly do not hate Sass...and thats a fact.
And as for YOU...I don't hate you at all. The word I would use is PITY.
I pity you because anyone with a mouth like a sewer deserves pity.


Anyone who gets their pleasures in life from taking the piss out of other peoples problems..deserves to be pitied.
But then what else have you got in life...still a spinster at 29.


07 October 2008 20:41

Funny that. One could have sworn that you are insinuating that a woman being single at 29 is a 'problem'. And that you are trying to take the piss.

Off for now.

Unknown said...

Hiya all

If there is talk on the 3As about a sex beast called David Payne I hope they got the right one:


CHILD sex beast freed early from prison is roaming the streets unmonitored – even though officials believe he poses a massive danger to young girls.
Kids’ magician David Payne, 63, got a 12-year sentence for raping an eight-year-old and sex assaults on six other victims as young as four.

But the twisted dad of two was released in the spring after serving eight years.



Evil ... perv performed magic at kids' parties

A risk assessment report drawn up by probation chiefs and psychiatrists warns chillingly: “Very high risk of harm to children, target group, females three to 16 years.”

Yet when The Sun tracked the pervert, who used his role as an entertainer to gain the trust of parents and kids, he went unchecked as he left his hostel in Boscombe, Dorset.

And families living nearby have not been told he may be a serious threat to their kids.


A probation source said: “It defies belief that officials can rank Payne as a very high danger to young girls, then release him on to the streets alone where he is surrounded by temptation.

“Payne is always out and about, and no one has a clue what he gets up to once he goes through the front door.”

Devious Payne, of Burton, Wiltshire, attacked kids as he drove them home from birthday parties. He also helped with swimming lessons.


Advertisement

Jurors were close to tears as they watched a video link of the terrified young rape victim describing the attack.


Balding Payne was put on the Sex Offenders Register after his release. But his past has been kept secret because of his human rights.

The Sun has demanded Sarah’s Law – after Sarah Payne, who was murdered by convicted paedophile Roy Whiting. It would entitle parents living near known sex offenders to be warned.

But Ministers have refused to bring it in.

The Ministry of Justice last night insisted all prisoners freed on licence could go back to jail if they broke strict conditions.

Di said...

ICTOAN

Thanks, you have read my mind, that is exactly what I was wanting to paste :o))

My right click on my mouse has given up :o((

Di said...

Hi Viv

Are you thinking there is a link?

docmac said...

Hi Di

Copy is Ctrl+C (hold the Ctrl button down and press C), paste is Ctrl+V. Don't need the right button :-)

BBFN.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Di

Being the thickest poster here (says ST) I suppose mind reading is a compensatory gift.

Unknown said...

Hiya Ictoan

I would like to know more about Carter Ruck's apparent threat to Paulo Reis because if, as I suspect, he is just reporting what is on the DVD's he is not libelling anyone at all!

Do you have a link for this? but I will do a search and see if I can find out any more.

Viv x

Doc, leave the old bat where she belongs!

Unknown said...

Hiya Di

No I do not think there is any link at all. I just think people need to be careful what they say here because there is only one witness who makes that suggestion and she could be mistaken. Therefore it would be difficult to say this is fair comment. It is OK having suspicions (as I have) but publishing them when there is so little, it would seem, to back them up, is another matter!

Viv x

Di said...

Hi Doc

Many thanks :o))

Cláudia said...

Hi, guys.
Sorry, have been multitasking and not always very successfully.

Dear Bum, I'll try to explain something to you. I'm single and will always be single, at least in the legal sense, because I don't believe in the institution of marriage. As simple as that. I was also not born to be a housewife, waiting for her man to come home, cook for him and become an ugly, bitter, frustrated old woman who obviously doesn't remember anymore what fun and pleasure is. Being in love is a fantastic thing. Being co-dependent is embarassing.
Now go and have what you clearly haven't had for many years. Go and have a great amount of f... FUN!

Hey, Doc. Need to e-mail you, but don't know exactly when. LOL

ICantThinkOfAName said...

viv

I was reported on 3A by carlina.

http://www.the3arguidos.net/forum/
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=24312

But from the context I think it originally came from PR's blog.

These 2 links are at the bottom of carlina's post.

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/

http://www.carter-ruck.com/

Di said...

ICTOAN

You are far from thick.

Di said...

Claudia

LOLLLL

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Viv

The meat of the DP thread is from the DVD and confirms the report by the doctors who went on a previous holiday.

Unknown said...

Hiya Claudia

Now I take it you mean fornicating fun, trouble is I doubt Bum would get the meaning of thAT word, any more than she is able to grasp the concept that not everyone wants to follow her example.
What a conceited old ^&&%*()%)^

Truly lacking in insigtht she is so far up her own ahem (where no one else goes ahem)

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, I can confirm the thing about Paulo Reis is true. But so empty... ;-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Di

Thank you for that. The only trouble is when I look in the mirror all I see is 2 short planks.

Cláudia said...

Hiya Claudia

"Now I take it you mean fornicating fun, trouble is I doubt Bum would get the meaning of thAT word, any more than she is able to grasp the concept that not everyone wants to follow her example.
What a conceited old ^&&%*()%)^

Truly lacking in insigtht she is so far up her own ahem (where no one else goes ahem)"

Well, Viv, I was trying to behave so you wouldn't be offended but taking into account what you just wrote, LOL. Yeah, that was exactly it. ROTFLMAO!

Unknown said...

Claudia

Can you email about Paulo? and there was me thinking the McCanns had gone quiet. Yes like a couple of sleeping vampires dreaming whose blood they can suck next!

This is a very interesting development!

xx

hope4truth said...

Claudia

How very modern of you LOL

xxx

Cláudia said...

Viv, we have to understand that in the 19th century, when Bum was born, things were a bit different different. :-)

hope4truth said...

ICTOAN

For someone so stupid you are very very funny LOL xxx

hope4truth said...

Claudia

When she was young men bashed you on the head with a club and pulled you back to the cave by your hair x

Di said...

Claudia

Empty???

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Viv and Claudia

There is speculation on 3A as to whether GA has also had a letter.

Unknown said...

Thanks Intelligentiatoan,

and SOLIDARITY BROTHER PAULO XXXXXXXX

7.10.08
News after a long absence
Since early September, my activity in this page has been reduced. I came to Macau, on holidays, and I decided to accept a job offer. It is a full-time job, as editor of a local Portuguese daily newspaper, and I've been quite busy. I will keep posting, about Madeleine's case (*) but not with the same regularity. Soon, I'll have some interesting news, after a long and detailed analysis of the attendance sheets from the Ocean Club crèches.
One of the aspects that surprised me is the fact that several registrations, on those sheets, have the time (and signatures) when children (not the McCann's kids...) were left there, but no signature and no mention about the time they went out. This detail raises doubts about the level of control that Ocean Club staff had, concerning children in their crèches. Either the control was not as good as they referred, or there is something strange with those attendance sheets.

(*) I received a letter from Carter-Ruck, threatening to take me to court, if I don't stop immediately writing about the case - something I have no intention to do.

ratonthebeam said...

Seems to me that our Paulo has pressed some very sensitive buttons....

Unknown said...

Thanks Intelligentiatoan

I have received no such later, to date, but rest assured, if I do, it will be placed on this blog!!


xxxxxx

Di said...

Well done PJR

Keep up the good work!

Cláudia said...

ICTOAn, nope.

Di said...

OCTOAN

You're welcome :o))

Unknown said...

Hiya Rat,

I seem to recall there was a routine of one would take to the creche and the other would fetch back. I am not sure but I think it was Kate who would pick them up, would she be the type to follow rules and sign out? Humm.. I think she is pretty good at telling people where to get off, oh and slow down and make me a coffee er, like, now!

Cláudia said...

Claudia

When she was young men bashed you on the head with a club and pulled you back to the cave by your hair x

-----------------------------------------------------------

Hope, LOL

ratonthebeam said...

Viv, it looks like the creche record-keeping left a lot to be desired anyway :( Interesting that the Leeches are writing letters, though! I am sure PJR will call their bluff. Be interesting to see what happens then!

Unknown said...

Cláudia said...
Viv, we have to understand that in the 19th century, when Bum was born, things were a bit different different. :-)


Gosh Hun is she actually Victorian, well that explains a lot!

Unknown said...

Hiya Rob

He talks about a long and detailed analysis but also adds not the McCanns, I think there must be something there and additionally he has the sort of sense of humour I likex

Di said...

Rat

I am with you, PJR will be more than able to hold his own :o))

Off now

See you tomorrow.

Cláudia said...

Viv and Doc, you both have mail.

Unknown said...

Rob

It will be interesting to see what he writes/allows to be written in the Portuguese paper given he will be Editor! One could just imagine he has been hand picked for the job, Claudia do you know the title?

Cláudia said...

Viv, no, I don't know. Didn't ask.

Unknown said...

What I mean Hun, is there another tsunami on its way:-)))

Just when they think they can take no more, Carter Ruck wade in to settle the score, or so they think!

I think that is rubbish because they work on a no win no fee basis, so only take on cases against people they know are good for a load of cash to not only pay their clients' erm "damages" but also their massive cut! Have they had their private detectives keeping obs on Paulo to see if he is rich enough to sue! Good move going to a newspaper..

ratonthebeam said...

As far as I know, PJR doesn't actually publish anything in the UK. Won't that complicate things for them somewhat? I mean, they can't just run up the road to Wapping to serve the papers.

Unknown said...

Good point ROB! I suppose they could get an agent to serve him with the papers but in reality although it is complex, I would have thought they would have to seek the help of the Portuguese Courts ha ha!


xxxxxxxxxxx

Cláudia said...

Viv, PR wants CR to ruck himself.

Cláudia said...

Viv, there are a bunch of people here in Portugal enthusiastically waiting to go to court, if you know what I mean...

Cláudia said...

Bum, you're sad and pathetic.
And isn't Bark a dentist, for crying out loud? Ask the man for help! He may want to help you with other problems too. Who knows?

Unknown said...

ROB This article would seem to confirm that due to publication on the internet the McCanns could argue they had been damaged here! But still there is the issue of actually serving the papers. They did start an action in Portugal against Tal or something for libel which came to nothing because that paper were merely printing the truth - the PJ believe Kate and Gerry McCann killed Madeleine and disposed of her body, therefore this cannot be libel!


Britain's libel laws are stifling free speech, says UN

By Robert Verkaik, Law Editor
Thursday, 14 August 2008



AFP/GETTY

Cameron Diaz: The actress used UK libel laws to sue The National Enquirer after it wrongly alleged she was unfaithful. It apologised and paid "substantial" libel damages.

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British libel laws are stifling free speech around the world as wealthy businessmen and celebrities increasingly turn to UK courts to silence their critics abroad, the United Nations has warned.


In a report published yesterday, the UN's Committee on Human Rights criticises the phenomenon of "libel tourism", where foreign businessmen and millionaires use the High Court in London to sue foreign publishers under claimant-friendly defamation laws.

It said that UK defamation law had discouraged critical media reporting on serious public interest matters, affecting the ability of scholars and journalists to publish their work.

The report cites the case of Dr Rachel Ehrenfeld, an American researcher who was sued in London by a Saudi businessman and his two sons over a book which was not published in the UK, although 23 copies were sold into the jurisdiction via the internet and one chapter was available online.

The claim led to the State of New York passing legislation to protect writers and publishers working there from the enforcement of defamation judgments made by other courts, unless those courts accorded the same freedom of speech protection as New York and US federal law.

The US federal legislature is considering enacting similar legislation.

The committee also criticised the way the British Official Secrets Act 1989 had been used to stop former Crown employees from bringing issues of public interest into the public domain and said that provisions in the Terrorism Act 2006 regarding encouragement of terrorism were vague and could have a chilling effect on freedom of expression.

The criticisms are contained in comments on a report submitted by the UK after the committee's 93rd session in Geneva in July. UN members states have to submit reports on human rights in their jurisdictions every three years.

The committee said it was concerned that the Official Secrets Act had been used "to frustrate former employees of the Crown from bringing into the public domain issues of genuine public interest, and can be exercised to prevent the media from publishing such matters". It noted that disclosures of information were penalised even when they did not harm national security.

"The State party should ensure that its powers to protect information genuinely related to matters of national security are narrowly utilised and limited to instances where the release of such information would be harmful to national security," the report says.

The committee was concerned about the "broad and vague" definition of the offence of "encouragement of terrorism" in section 1 of the Terrorism Act.

"In particular, a person can commit the offence even when he or she did not intend members of the public to be directly or indir-ectly encouraged by his or her statement to commit acts of terrorism, but where his or her statement was understood by some members of the public as encouragement to commit such acts," the report says.

The committee called on the Government to consider amending the part of section 1 which deals with encouragement of terrorism so that "its application does not lead to a disproportionate interference with freedom of expression".

It said the Government should re-examine the technical doctrines of libel law and should consider introducing "a so-called 'public figure' exception".

This would require a would-be claimant in a libel case to prove actual malice by a publisher or author before he or she could proceed with an action.

It would apply in cases "concerning reporting on public officials and prominent public figures".

Foreign nationals who have successfully sued for libel in Britain

Boris Berezovsky

Britain declared itself open to libel-forum shoppers in 2000 when Boris Berezovsky was given permission by the House of Lords to sue Forbes after the US magazine wrongly branded him a thug and crook. While there were only 13 Forbes subscribers in Russia, the Lords found that the publication was available on the internet and he had sufficient business interests in Britain to have been damaged here.

Cameron Diaz

The actress used UK libel laws to sue The National Enquirer after it wrongly alleged she was unfaithful. It apologised and paid "substantial" libel damages.

Roman Polanski

Roman Polanski appeared by videolink at the Royal Courts of Justice to win £1.5m in libel damages from US magazine Vanity Fair, after it falsely claimed he had seduced a model days after his wife's murder.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Viv

It might have to be heard under the legal system of the PR of China or does Macau retain its old Portuguese legal system?

Unknown said...

ROB, Yes and I wonder if Mrs Justice McCann will actually have to put in an appearance at court this time:-)))

x

ratonthebeam said...

It's also interesting to note, Viv, that although the McScums have already received payouts, they have never actually been inside a court yet. And I think we can all go ice skating in Hell before that ever happens. Paulo is quite safe and he knows it. Carter Ruck have to be seen to be making noises, but I can never see the McScums ever entering any sort of court voluntarily.

Unknown said...

Sorry I meant Intelligentoan x

Unknown said...

Rob

WE clearly had concensus ad idem there :-)))

Unknown said...

the wont know I spelt it wrong x

Cláudia said...

Rat, hich is a problem, because no one here settles. Here it goes ALL the way...

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Come off it all you with your compliments or my head will soon be bigger than my beer belly.

Cláudia said...

*which

Cláudia said...

...

Cláudia said...

...

Cláudia said...

:)

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