2 Oct 2008

LOW COPY NUMBER DNA IS RELEVANT AND ADMISSIBLE EVIDENCE

Especially for the benefit of those who still seek to suggest the Omagh case was helpful to the McCanns they should think again, given it was investigated during the currency of the PJ investigation and found to be perfectly fit for purpose in cases where the crime scene has been cleaned and very little forensic evidence is left to analyse. As this article also makes plain the weight the court will attach to the evidence depends upon all the facts of the case, but I think it would certainly be true to say that without more a prosecution would not be mounted. This is why the McCanns have not, as yet, been charged. Very often it is not one piece of evidence alone that entitles a jury to find the defendants guilty, it is the TOTALITY of ALL the evidence.

Viv x



Review of the use of Low Copy Number DNA analysis in current cases: CPS statement
14 January 2008
The judgment in the Omagh bombing case, R v Hoey, was handed down on the 20th December 2007.
The Judge expressed concerns about Low Copy Number (LCN) DNA analysis, conducted by the Forensic Science Service Ltd (FSS), which was adduced in evidence. In particular he expressed concerns about the extent to which the scientific validity of the technique had been demonstrated.
LCN is a form of generic Low Template DNA analysis, used when the available crime scene DNA sample is very small, (for example, such as might be obtained from a person's contact with a surface rather than a bloodstain). LCN is the service offered by the FSS, and other low template DNA profiling services are offered by other forensic science providers in the UK.
Following the judgment in the Omagh case on 21 December, as a precautionary measure, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) wrote to Chief Constables on 21 December 2007 recommending that the police should operate an interim suspension on the use of LCN DNA analysis in criminal investigations in England and Wales. This decision by ACPO was taken following discussion with the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS). The purpose of the suspension was to provide an opportunity to review the situation in the light of ongoing trials in which LCN evidence was at issue, and to ensure that the implications of the Omagh judgment in relation to LCN profiling were addressed before the technique was used in any future proceedings.
The CPS carried out a precautionary internal review of current cases involving the FSS use of LCN DNA analysis. This took place between 21 December 2007 and 14 January 2008.
From this, the CPS has not seen anything to suggest that any current problems exist with LCN. Accordingly we conclude that LCN DNA analysis provided by the FSS should remain available as potentially admissible evidence. Of course, the strength and weight such evidence is given in any individual case remains a matter to be considered, presented, and tested in the light of all the other evidence.
Forensic science has a vital role to play in detecting criminals and bringing them to justice, and equally ensuring that innocent people are eliminated from suspicion. In recent years, the science in this area has developed at a very fast pace, particularly with the growth in forensic science providers who compete with one another to offer an increasingly wide range of new techniques in DNA profiling.
Such developments should ensure such techniques become an ever more compelling tool in the criminal justice system, as long as they are supported by transparent quality assurance processes, set against clear standards, and verified by independent peer review.
This process will be supported by the recent moves to appoint a Forensic Science Regulator; an Interim Regulator was appointed in June 2007, and the permanent Regulator, Andrew Rennison, will take up his post on 11 February 2008. The post of Regulator is also supported by the recent formation of the Forensic Science Advisory Council, whose membership includes representatives from the judiciary and a range of senior criminal justice partners.. In the course of the CPS review, the Regulator provided valuable assistance.
The CPS will continue to work closely with the Forensic Science Regulator in preparing guidance to its prosecutors about the issues that should be considered when Low Template DNA analysis from any provider is potential prosecution evidence.
Notes to Editors
The regulator has set out his position. This is available as an Annex to this Press Release.
Media enquiries to CPS Press Office on 020 7796 8106.
ANNEX A
"LCN DNA ANALYSIS: THE SCIENCE
The Forensic Science Regulator has commissioned an expert review of "low template DNA analysis", including the LCN service offered by the FSS Ltd. The review, led by Professor Brian Caddy of Strathclyde University, began on 8 November 2007[1] and is due to report at the end of February 2008. It is examining the processes used by the various providers; their scientific validity and the way the results are interpreted and presented. Professor Caddy has also been asked to advise upon the creation of a national minimum technical standard for the process.
At present, there is no reason to believe that there is any inherent unreliability in the LCN DNA analysis process provided that it is carried out according to the prescribed processes, and that the results are properly interpreted. In its work so far, the review has found nothing that would indicate any serious flaw in the scientific principles.
The process has been validated by FSS Ltd. in accordance with their internal validation procedures. There is currently no internationally or nationally recognised technical standard governing the validation of low template DNA analysis. Professor Caddy's work will enable the Regulator to prescribe standards against which all suppliers will be required to validate their services.
The Regulator will ensure that the standards exist and that suppliers comply with them in carrying out validation procedures on their forensic science products and services. The Regulator will not, himself, be responsible for conducting external validation of such services."
14 January 2008

263 comments:

1 – 200 of 263   Newer›   Newest»
viv said...

and whilst on the subject of law, given "Mark" raised it, here is a new homicide offence punishable by up to 14 years, that could well be applicable in the case of Kate and Gerry McCann where it is not clear which one actually killed Madeleine: Of course there appear to be other offences committed they could also be charged with, for example, given they know Madeleine died asking the public for money is fraud and then there is the issue of money from various newspapers, most notably, Express Newspapers who are not nice people to cross as Lord Archer knows! He paid his half million back three times over on top of getting a four year jail term for perjury..


Familial Deaths
84. Section 5 of the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 ('DVCV Act') creates an offence of causing or allowing the death of a child under the age of 16 or of a vulnerable adult. This stand-alone offence imposes a duty upon members of a household to take reasonable steps to protect children or vulnerable adults within that household from the foreseeable risk of serious physical harm from other household members. It is an offence triable only on indictment and carries a maximum sentence of 14 years imprisonment or a fine, or both [s. 5(7)].

85. An offence under section 5 is an offence of homicide for the purposes of venue in the Youth Court s. 6(5)].

86. The new offence is made out where evidence exists to establish the following elements:

a child or vulnerable adult ("V") has died;
the death was the result of an unlawful act, course of conduct or omission of a person ("D") who was member of the same household as V and who had frequent contact with V;
there existed at the time of death a significant risk of serious physical harm being caused to V by the unlawful act of any member of that household and either:
(a) D was the person whose unlawful act caused V's death; or

(b) D was, or ought to have been, aware of that risk and failed to take such steps as he or she could reasonably have been expected to take to protect V from that risk of serious physical harm; and

(c) The death occurred in circumstances of the kind that D foresaw or ought to have foreseen.

87. (Note that 'significant' does not mean 'more than minimal' as it would for manslaughter but carries its ordinary meaning - R v Mujuru (2007) EWCA Crim 1249

88. Significantly, the prosecution does not have to prove which of the two possible alternatives, (a) or (b) above, applies [s.5(2)]. In other words, D is equally liable to conviction whether he or she was the perpetrator of the act that actually caused V's death or simply failed to protect V from a foreseeable risk of serious physical harm from another member of the household who had frequent contact with V. It will quickly be appreciated how this dual basis for criminal liability remedies one of the main perceived difficulties with the law relating to other possible charges such as murder or manslaughter.

89. In every case the prosecution must prove that V's death occurred in circumstances of the kind that D foresaw or ought to have foreseen [s.5(1)(d)(iii)]. This requirement protects, from criminal liability, those whose dependents die from unlawful acts that had nothing to do with the foreseeable risk of harm within the household, e.g. where V is at risk of serious harm from an abusive parent but is subsequently killed by a friend of the family who had had until then little contact with the household.

90. Further, subsection 5(6) confirms that in this context 'serious' harm is to be equated with the level of physical harm that amounts to grievous bodily harm under the Offences against the Person Act 1861. The risk that must be foreseen relates to that level of harm and the risk itself must be significant rather than minimal or fanciful.

91. However, it is clear from the wording of section 5 that the test of what could be foreseen is not purely subjective but contains a 'reasonableness' dimension as well. In determining potential liability the proper test to be applied is 'what would have been reasonable for this defendant to have foreseen?' Therefore, a defendant may be fixed with knowledge if the nature of the risk was such that he or she should reasonably have been aware of it even if they claim not to have been.

92. In this context an 'unlawful' act is defined as one which constitutes a criminal offence or would do so were the perpetrator not under the age of criminal responsibility or able to establish an insanity defence [s.5(5)].

Age of Responsibility
93. If D was under the age of 16 at the time of the act which caused V's death he or she cannot be guilty of an offence under section 5 [s.5(3)(a)]. Further, where it is sought to prosecute D on the basis of a failure to take reasonable steps to prevent the risk of serious harm, D is assumed not to have been capable of taking any such step before attaining the age of sixteen [s.5(3)(b)]. However, neither of these exceptions applies to the mother or father of the deceased child who may be prosecuted for a section 5 offence whatever their age. This distinction is justified on the basis that parents bear a special responsibility for the safety of their children.

Meaning of 'Same Household'
94. The phrase, 'member of same household' is defined in section 5(4)(a) of the Act. People who live together in a family arrangement will clearly be members of the same household. Additionally, a person can be a member of a particular household even if he or she does not live there provided that they visit it so often and for such periods of time that it is reasonable to regard them as a member of that household. This is a question to be judged on the particular facts of each specific case. Where V lived in different households at different times, 'the same household as V' refers to the household in which V was living at the time of the act that caused V's death.

95. To establish D's liability under the new offence the prosecution must prove, not only that D was a member of the same household as V, but also that he or she had frequent contact with V. For example, someone who was a frequent visitor but who only came to the house after the victim had gone to bed or was absent might be deemed a member of the same household but would not be included within criminal liability under section 5. Until some case law develops on the point, what amounts to 'frequent' contact will also remain a question of fact and degree in each case.

bath theory said...

There is more than enough
'evidence' to take them to court and to let a jury decide whether they were involved.

Without a body the main 'evidence' is witnesses and it seems they have witnesses. They also have the dogs work, the cleaning of the apartment, the way Madeleine was treated that week and so on etc To say there is not enough evidence is not right.

One reason alone protects them and it is political and it involves the current Prime Minister. Once he is gone this case will move quickly in my opinion.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi BT,

I certainly agree that there is high level government involvement in this case, but think the present ("limited period only!") PM is not necessarily the only person whose future and reputation is tied up in it...

...accordingly, even when Gordon has slunk off to spend more time with his nuclear investments there will still be those in whose interest it will be to maintain the stonewalling of any investigation into what really happened to Madeleine.

:)

docmac said...

Questions were for Viv, so I'll just have a very small go.

Mark55 said...

Haven't you heard that the spelling and grammar of graduates is awful , particularly science grads .

No, it's the handwriting that is generally criticized. Graduates would not (one can only hope) write

"evidece"
"Knoffler"
"liecester" (with a small l and a 'lie'"
"birmingham" (with a small b)
"the blog spends more time attacking me than discussing the case" (blogs are alive???)


Why are you still working if you're so wealthy, well into your 60s and have such a young wife? You have a "gold plated pension pot" worth well over a million? (LOL!) A bit of good advice for you; go and spend it before your wife's next husband does.

PS, today would be a very good day to apologise for your anti semetic [sic] 'joke'.

docmac said...

Rosiepops said..

"One recent howler of his was to spell Hello as H.A.L.L.O, now does that make him a loony or a loonie?
lol


02 October 2008 10:22

Um, hallo is the correct way to address someone whose first language is Afrikaans. But you would not get that hey?

docmac said...

'Rosie', 11:13 and 'AnonyRosie' at 11:39 on ST.

Gotcha :-)))

docmac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cláudia said...

Doc, just a little something to keep Rosie's half brain cell occupied. Hallo is also the right way do address a German person, for instance. If she ever wishes to be nice to someone German (well, I don't see that happening, but strange things happen) I would advise: Hallo, HerR/Frau X. Wie geht es Ihnen?

"A bit of good advice for you; go and spend it before your wife's next husband does."
PMSL!!!

The grammar and spelling of graduates is awful? Well, here it happens a similar thing. Usually the grammar and spelling of 3rd graders is also not that good.

docmac said...

Oh my, "Rosie" is really pi**ed off with me today :-)) Probably trying to deflect attention from the fact that tomorrow it will be 17 months since Madeleine was killed :-((

docmac said...

Hi Claudia

She leads a rather sheltered life, don't you think?

docmac said...

Gotta go

But hey, I can't wait for the posts claiming I 'admitted' that Rosie has a v**ina ;-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, LOL
See you later!

docmac said...

OK, Claudia

See the latest post by notanonyrosie at 13:01 today on ST. It's a laugh a paragraph.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Anonymous said...

ICantThinkOfAName should change their names to IRemainBrainlessandI'mProudofIt....
Hun, this is anonymoose (and I also know the real spelling). I was not boasting that I like to go to expensive restaurants - but I have not gone to McDonald's, Burger King or any other quick pick up food for years. I don't particularly like their choices and I don't for a minute believe that these places have healthy meals.



As in the you first sentence you refer to us in the plural, is it both beings you say haven’t got brains?

Of course if I did have a brain, ICouldHaveThoughtOfAName like the one you mentioned. On reflection though, IRBIPI doesn’t have the same ring as ICTOAN.

I believe you when you say that you don’t frequent Burger King or McDonald’s; after all they do attract a lot of children.

By the way with your conviction about the healthiness of their products. did you contribute to the legal fund set up for the defendants who were sued by McDonald’s for libel when they made such a point publicly.

I did.

Cláudia said...

Oh Doc, the things I do for you!!! ROTFLMAO!!

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, you should stop replying in an inteliggent manner. Anonymouse will not understand a word.

docmac said...

Re: Paedophilia

Post by maria Today at 1:22 pm

I posted these news twice as one is sourced in Spain and the other in Portugal.

This operation links with the other one in Portugal and it is visible the difference of approach between the two countries: here we aprehend then later accuse and jail eventually and if the guy is still around, the same in Brazil; in Spain, aprehend and jail just in case, then charge, and if mistaken apologise and pay damages. This way it may be more expensive, but at least, some are already in jail and surely will pay for what they have done, if that has a price.

maria

What are you saying? That it would be better if the McScums had committed the crime in Spain? You just hate your 'own country' btw. Why don't you just emigrate? ;-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

Which one of me are you talking to?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

I wonder if maria thinks that the same rule should apply to those suspected of being involved with the death of one of their children?

docmac said...

For Claudia

Read the OP here. Sound Portuguese to you? LOL!

docmac said...

ICTOAN

I guess so. How odd.

Cláudia said...

Hi, Doc.
I already told you what I think about 'Maria'. Oh, and the choice of nick is also a very interesting stereotype...

docmac said...

Maria from Iberia, yes.

Did you read the unhelpful link I posted?

Cláudia said...

ICTON, both of you are too intelligent! LOL

Cláudia said...

Doc, I did. Very typical of Portuguese people...

docmac said...

Mark55 said...

"Notdoc , Mark is a mere 55 . As you know I still work part time , that's why I'm home now ."

So how were you a young student working in casualty on the day of the Birmingham bombing then? Liar.

docmac said...

"As regards my beautiful young wife it gives me great pleasure that she will be well provided for ."

By someone who actually feels proud to wear a Speedo? Good luck to her, she's suffered enough. You want a real-time photo contest about beautiful wives? LOL!

Cláudia said...

Doc, wasn't that in the sixties? Or was there another? Sorry, but I was born on 79 and I'm not that familiar with it.

docmac said...

1963, when Mark was a 10 year old third year dental student.

docmac said...

Also note that he has been 55 for more than a year :-))

Cláudia said...

Doc, LOLOLOLOL
How pathetic.
People are right, you have to have a good memory to be a good liar. Guess some people are incompetent whatever they do!
I'll be away for a bit. Cleaning lady arrived and I don't want to disturb her work here.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

I've left a personal message on your blog.

Cláudia said...

Thanks, ICTOAN. It's done.

Cláudia said...

Doc, you got mail.

P.S: cleaning lady telling me I have to wait 10 more minutes! :-)

docmac said...

ICTOAN

Was just taking the p*ss :-)

I am sure they will take it real serious though. As they do.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

O K Doc

Didn't want any unintended problems.

docmac said...

No problems at all, ICTOAN. My history is fine :-)

BBL.

Cláudia said...

My cleaning lady has just managed to break my shutters! :-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Did she used to work at PDL?

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, LOLOL
No. The poor lady works here for a long time and said she was sorry around one hundred times. It just happened while she was cleaning them. Repairperson on the way. :-)

docmac said...

Yes, ST

One of the Guildford four. Paddy, to be precise. He's a reasonably wealthy man now. Quite right too.

Can I expect my letter soon? In the name of the father, it's taking so long :-)))

Cláudia said...

Doc, it must be a stamp problem. Moreover, you know how difficult it is to get simple things done in the place you live. It's not like the first world, you know? Things are very, very slow...in Beja! LOL

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Blair has been removed,

Sir Ian that is. Must be the Stockwell shooting inquest?

Cláudia said...

Oh, Doc, one of the funniest things I got was from someone(let's not even mention the pathetic spelling and sentence construction) who said I was going to be sued by both the McCanns and the PJ which were working (together!!!) on a lawsuit against me because I used the 'PJ' on my blog's name!
ROTFLMAO!

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, will it take long to be Brown's turn?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Caudia

It is claimed that Blair went because the Mayor of London is now a Tory and not Labour.

IMHO Brown will hang on as long as he can until he is forced to face a General Election or members of his own Party, fearing for their own jobs, ditch him as an election liability. I think the latter will occur first.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, I wish it was tomorow.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia
Did you see on 3A that ann-chovey has speculated that the McCanns are writing a rival book entitled:

THE LIE OF THE TRUTH

docmac said...

Go DC

At least he can jog when the cameras are rolling, just like the Mcs.

Hi Viv (waves) :-))))))))))

docmac said...

Claudia

I like slow, but not to this extent. The PJ were going to sue you? LOL. Was the author JK Rowling? ;-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

I think all these threats to sue are really Grimm.

docmac said...

Exactly, ICTOAN. Fantasies and fairytales.

docmac said...

by Vee8

"Name calling is for the anti's and the school playground, we are supposed to be above all of that, arn't we?"

Wot, you did not call me nobrot then?

Folks, there is a little pink forum bitch fest breaking out concerning ex members. And no mods are watching!! LOL!

docmac said...

by vee8 Today at 6:39 pm
I have been told, by a reputable source, that it seems that a certain important moderator, on a certain unpleasant site, has had a visit from the police. It looks like, athough not confirmed, that this site is now on borrowed time. Other sicko sites are also in the frame. I await further developments with great interest.


Geez, I hope they didn't hurt him. ST is a really cool guy ;-)
Certainly not prepared to put your cock on a certain block are you Nigel?

Di said...

Good evening all.

Claudia..

Cleaning lady LOL..

Oh, I am glad I came here just now, a laugh is always needed.

Back home now for several reasons.

Just to let you know the Fridge Freezer maintenance man came today. Could he fix it? no. Two weeks before it will hopefully be repaired but it could be longer.

What are my rights? The fridge freezer is less than 4 months old this is the second time it has gone wrong. We have now gone back to the kitchen company who supplied it. They have said they will await the engineers report, stalling I think!!

I asked the repair man if he would like a drink his reply, "that would be lovely thanks, could I have a cold one" I said "are you having a laugh" He looked mortified poor thing. Tap water is a wonderful thing.

docmac said...

Good one, Di :-))

Bit of advice. This has always worked for me. As soon as you get a reply that doesn't satisfy you, ask to speak to his or her superior. Immediately. Carry on up the chain if necessary until you reach the very top. Then threaten to call in the press. Never failed once :-)))

hope4truth said...

DI

Tell them your husband is a free lance journalist for a consumer magazine and is allways looking for real life problems to write about and he will make Neff his next article...

xxx

hope4truth said...

Vee8 should really get a grip what sicko site is it talking about???

If it thinks the welfare of a 3 year old child is not important and scum parents can just sod off leave their child alone and then do NOTHING to help the investigation other than Jog Smile Laugh and write a blog that hardly mentions the little girl who is the victim is ok then I would say that is sick.

As for the Mod with the police ROFLMAO some people have loyalty towrads others something Vee 8 would never understand as it belives parents dont even have to be loyal to their children...

Di said...

Doc/Hope

I have made notes, it proves I am a real novice. I am sure you can both teach me more wicked ways :o)))

Di said...

Just, when I thought everything was well here in Cheshire, our central heating boiler has gone out and won't relight :o(((((

Just as well I have an aga :o))

Guess what? they can't come out until Tuesday.

Cheshire or Wales where should we be! no contest Cheshire and chilled wine :o))))

hope4truth said...

Di

My Dad had taken out an insurance policy on something that after 3 years of no claims he would get £180 back.

He sent off all the documents and they wrote back to say they were not the correct ones and he would not be getting a refund.

I wrote a letter saying that was just what he expected to hear as his Daughter had warned him they always made excuses and the policy was not woth the paper it was written on and as a Consumer Journalist she would be using this as an example in her next article. The Cheque arrived a few days later and we all went out for a really nice meal and spent the lot!!!!!!!! xxx

docmac said...

You're in Cheshire, Di? I stayed overnight in Chester not that long ago if you remember. Nice part of England. Lots of Mercs about too :-)))

Di said...

Doc

We are in Knutsford Cheshire, not that far from BK in Bowden, although the papers are now saying he is in Wilmslow, I will check that one out!

Well, what's a few metres between friends, it's like being in ones back garden don't you know ;o))

Di said...

Doc

Not Mercs Bentleys, and don't go there with hubby.

docmac said...

Never been to Knutsford, Bowden or Wilmslow. But if you see BK give him a right old slap from me. And ask him why he needs to cover his own ass in this case.

docmac said...

The Mercs belong to the nannies, Di ;-)

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, no, I haven't seen it. Will check it when I have the time.

Doc, yes, that one about the PJ was hilarious! LOL

Pink backstabbing? What a cool thing. I must be missing a blast, but please, inform us of the best! :-)

Oh my, I hope the police weren't too hard on ST. ;-)

Di said...

Doc

You have my word ;o)

docmac said...

Claudia, it's the same thread I last posted a link to.

BTW, have just received another VERY interesting e-mail :-) No, not from you :-))) I'm a little reluctant to share the content right now, but I must say somrthing to someone if they are still reading here.

ECOLAB, YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!!!

Cláudia said...

Doc, remember who always trusted you! :-))))

Di said...

Hi Hope

Thanks for your advice.

We are all up against the establishment so to speak!!

Sadly I am sure it is going to get far worse.

Off now to watch TV.

Enjoy your evening speak tomorrow.

Cláudia said...

Doc, replied.

That thread is hilarious!
So, that blog accusing ST and Poops that was deleted was from Sass? I think they should not take that as their only possibility...

LittleGreyCell said...

Evening all,

What's the news tonight then?

Doc, Thanks for the reminder of how poetic Mark55 can be, I'd forgotten about that lovely missive concerning Jews and bonfires...(can't you find at least a SLIGHTLY better calibre of person to support you, McCanns? This really doesn't look good you know).

Di - give 'em hell! I always start by writing to the Managing Director of the whole empire, and never fail to get recompense. Consumer Service merely masquerades as Consumer Dis-service, and is there to dissuade you from complaining to the Managing Director. Ergo, cut out the middle man!

hope4truth said...

Hey LGC

Who is this Ergo and where can I get his number LOL xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

Evening Hope!

Ergo is a very good friend of mine who just happens, on a good day, to look like George Clooney. On a bad day he looks like Jeff Bridges.

You could get his number from me, if I was willing to give it to you...

:)))

ratonthebeam said...

I don't get it, which Mod was visited by the police??? And is ST's blog really getting shut down? I take it the Care In The Community idea didn't work out, then ;-(

hope4truth said...

LGC

He sounds dreadful!!!!!!! I would pay for that number name your price... If not I will see Opus and bribe him with Herring Crispie Cakes!!!!!!! xxx

Cláudia said...

Rat, those idiots are priceless!
The pink ones are stabbing each other on their backs. Quite hilarious! ST trying to behave like nothing's going on and not publishing some difficult questions. An anon had to use my blog. Pretty damn funny.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

Given the smell of Herring Crispie Cakes, I'll give you the number if you promise not to make them!!!

X

hope4truth said...

Hello Rat

I think that ST thinks one of the Mods that resigned is behind bars???

Is the site closing or is that a rumour like they have rumours that we are closing or the 3As is closing???

xxx

southerncross said...

Evening everyone


1)Pension of 1 million on the NHS?You must be kidding Mr.Dentist. Challenge!!!
2)H.A.llo Doc, guess we in South Africa do not have the right to spell "hello" different than Brits do. Well, we are a third world country in the eyes of certain xenophobes.And we also have no sonars to detect pregnancy in 2,3, weeks.
3)Clinical Psychologists are paid to converse with neurotic/psychotic people.Hence no postings on the pink and troll blogs.
Conversing/posting/blogging with intelligent people on this blog and the 3A's is for free and quite stimulating thanks

Justice will prevail

hope4truth said...

LGC it is a deal...

You can send the info to...

haplesshope@happy.com

xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Southerncross,

Personally, I think Mark55 (that's an indication of his IQ, btw) is worth every penny of a million quid not to be let loose on the public, don't you???

:)

ratonthebeam said...

It looks like they are going into meltdown. Why do they keep writing such lies on that blog? We have all been arrested, we are all getting sued; they just look so stupid when it turns out not to be true (as it always does). It's quite pathetic, really. I had always credited ST with more intelligence than Rosie, but he is turning out to be a real disappointment too :-( The McScums must be really scraping the barrel now if that's all they've got left defending them!

Cláudia said...

Rat, pathetic, really.

LittleGreyCell said...

Rat,

Yes, I think that's what happened - one of the 3A Mods saw the error of their ways and gave themselves up to the Keystone Cops for deigning to believe the McCanns are anything other than completely innocent pawns in the mysterious disappearance of their beloved daughter...it'll be all over the papers tomorrow. (Daily Star, p. 267).

ratonthebeam said...

Hi Hope, missed your post. None of OUR mods have been arrested, OUR forum isn't closing, can't guarantee the same for ST or the pink sewer though ;-)

southerncross said...

lgc, that is why NHS dentistry is in the state it is in, I suppose.
55(verbal 50 and rational 5 ).Quite worrying

LittleGreyCell said...

Ratty,

They have to write lies, it's the only thing left to them with which to defend the McCanns "innocence".

Do you know, I think some of them have been spouting this rubbish for so long now, they actually believe it.

And don't get me started on the religious lot spouting all sorts of nonsense about K&G's complete innocence - all it does is show that the only truth they're interested in is THEIR OWN truth, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the empirical reality of it all.

Misguided? Innocent? Corrupt?

As Lloyd Grosman would say (another Jew, sorry Mark), You Decide!

LittleGreyCell said...

SC,

Thinking about it, hope 55 doesn't relate to the number of people who have sued him...

hope4truth said...

Hi Rat

I know they havent and that the 3As is going no where.

It is very sad that they get so excited when they think we are off they pretend to be there for the McCann's but none of them are there for Madeleine including her parents...

xxx

southerncross said...

LGC, you never know ;)
Or the amount of patients on his books(children,non-paying patients) just to be eligible for the pension

LittleGreyCell said...

Well said, Hope!

All the Pros can do is bully now. (Actually, for some reason, that's been their tack from very early days).

They can shout "Prove it!" as much as they like, but a (current)lack of proof to the standard as required in a court of law does not mean the McCanns are innocent.

A lack of proof that the Earth was round did not stop it from being round...

LittleGreyCell said...

SC,

Do you know, on the DX, Mark55 said that his "twins" were climbing all over his computer.

Hmm.

:)

docmac said...

Oh, Allo Ello all.

Rat, LGC I'm not quite sure how to extend wishes for the holiday, but just don't break a leg :-)

SC, klomp dom dose. Drink almal papsak.

hope4truth said...

LGC

I am relieved that their suporters are bullys (they really thought that would work) if only they had come to me I could have turned them into real victims shown them how to act and what to say to people who doubted them.

I would have set up a website agreeing that they were so wrong to leave the children full of apologies from them begging others not to do the same as them.

No smiling outside (well not the joyfull smiles and happy snaps) they could have got away with a few people doubting them and moved on...

I would have had to sell my soul to the Devil and burn in hell for not putting a 3 year old ahead of her parents but obviously some people are not worried about that.

Shame they picked the wrong team really (or not as the case may be) because of their campaign Madeleine may just get the juscice she deserves.

Cláudia said...

Doc, you got mail. :-)

hope4truth said...

Blimey my spelling is getting worse sorry Doc LOL x

LittleGreyCell said...

Hiya Doc!

Thanks for your good wishes!

Actually, I'm not exactly a lapsed Jew 'cos I'll always be Jewish, it's just that like Groucho, I'll never be a member of a club that will have me as a member...

:)

docmac said...

LGC, well remembered!!

Hope, you should lay off the sparkling mineral water :-))

LittleGreyCell said...

Actually Hope,

I've always thought their supporters must come from another planet - one where logic and compassion and integrity are not even words in the dictionary.

Maybe they masquerade as bullies on this planet!

LittleGreyCell said...

Doc,

Oh hell, I must be older than I thought I was...

hope4truth said...

LGC

You could be right a planet where children dont matter and bullying is the only way to get what you want xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

Makes you wonder what's in it for them, if the main thing is to get Madeleine's parents off the hook, with no regard to what happened to her...

docmac said...

I meant about the twins, LGC. You must age really fast :-)))

Cláudia said...

Doc, replied.

LittleGreyCell said...

Doc,

Do you think I should start using moisturiser???

LittleGreyCell said...

Off to bed now...

...good night all.

:) ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz

Cláudia said...

Sleep well, LGC!

hope4truth said...

LGC

Getting them off the hook is all that matters.

IF they are inocent they would not need people to bully for them.

From DOC's post earlier about Britvic he obvioulsy has a whole library of posts are these the people you would want to defend you if you were inocent??? Dont think so...

Maybe some of these posts can be used in the future along with the happy snaps anyone who just reads a paper would be shocked at the joy and the vile insults and shocking avatars of some of these people (Including Gerry's own blog)...

xxx

southerncross said...

Goodnight LGC
Always a pleasure reading you

docmac said...

Goodnight LGC

Hope you slapped on a handful before you turned in :-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, replied.

viv said...

Doc, I hate to have to make Mark seem right but the Birmingham bombings were in the early 70s, I was about 19 or 20 I think so that would make it about 1973. I remember it very well because I actually used to drink in the Mulberry Bush but fortunately was not there that night when 21 were killed! If he is 55 and I am 54 then his dates are correct, he could well have been a young student then! But around that time I also worked for two different very eminent pathologists in Birmingham and when I asked him to name them, he refused to do so. Which leads me to conclude that he is not telling the truth!

Actually I have just checked:

The Birmingham pub bombings took place on 21 November 1974

Cláudia said...

Hi, Viv.
Hope you're well.
Time to go to bed.
Boa noite, all.
Beijinhos, Viv and Doc.

viv said...

Boa Noite Claudia darling

I just realised I keep yawning maybe because it is so cold! So I think I will do the same and turn in.

Ate amanha!

and I wish LP and others every success in getting the evidence to a satisfactory state to build a watertight case against Kate and Gerry McCann that no team of expensive lawyers can save them from. I do agree with a post above, I think it was Hope or Di? their conduct has made it much more likely we will see Justice for Maddie, they have given the police quite a lot, actually in their struggle to exculpate themselves, they did just the opposite. I always said they should just keep their mouth shut, maybe they are now, but it is too late!


xxxxx

viv said...

Gerry finally stopped "blogging" at least to outward appearances!

docmac said...

Hi Viv

I think you'll find I said later that I was taking the p*ss :-))

Niki said...

Hi everyone!

Notice that Clarrie is meeting up with old friends discussing freedom of speach!
------
Clarence Mitchell a guest speaker for the Society of British Editors
SOSMaddie

Duarte Levy
02.10.2008
Thanks to 'annaesse' for translation

Clarence Mitchell, spokesperson for Kate and Gerry McCann, is one of the guests of honour for the next annual conference of the Society of British Editors, where the former director of the Media Monitoring Unit is scheduled as a speaker.

Amongst the other speakers, is Sly Bailey, boss of the Mirror Group, Carolyn McCall, Director General of Guardian Media, Paul Dacre, editor of the Daily Mail, and Christopher Meyer, President of the Press Complaints Commission.

The Society of Editors is an organisation that brings together more than 400 members and that, according to its internet site, defends values like the universal right to freedom of expression and the right of the public to be informed.

In the case of Madleine's disappearance, the McCanns' spokespersons and lawyers have maintained regular contact with editors and directors of the major British newspapers. On September 12th 2007, after Kate and Gerry McCann were officially constituted as arguidos, Justine McGuiness, their then spokesperson, and their lawyer Angus McBride, met with several editors and directors to whom they explained that the fact that the Portuguese authorities had not found Madeleine's body was the best proof of the couple's innocence.

The next conference of British editors will take place at the Marriot Royal Hotel in Bristol, from 9th to 11th November.

*

Society of Editors 2008 conference programme here

Monday November 10

5.00 pm The big stories of the past year: the McCanns, Prince Harry and the Credit Crunch. Did we get the balance right?

viv said...

Hiya Doc

What about the date of the B'ham pub bombings!

x

viv said...

Hiya Niki

Well you certainly listed some McCann friendly papers there. Since when did murder suspects have a lawyer and a media spokesman telling the press what to say! They certainly set new standards of just how low you can get!

I find it an extraordinary proposition that failing to find the body suggests McCanns are innocent. It is every murderers desire to ensure they hide it so well!

Viv x

ICantThinkOfAName said...

In view of the lack of bodies, I hope the newspapers will campaign for a posthumous pardon for John Haig. The acid carboys in his shed did not prove his guilt.

Niki said...

Hi Viv! Good to "see" you:-)

The above article reminded me of something I had read long time ago, so I searched for it:

'Why I believe the McCanns' team were behind the leaking of witness statements', 11 April 2008 from

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id87.html


The last part says:
It is also interesting to note that beyond the 'paper selling' headlines, the UK press are still using the leak to belittle and undermine public perception of the work of the PJ. The PJ have worked diligently, conscientiously and patiently in the face of continued abuse.



Clarence Mitchell has grasped this opportunity to slam the PJ for leaking these statements. And a 'friend' has grasped the opportunity to brand anyone who dares to question the McCanns as 'vultures'.



And the PJ?



Alipio Ribeiro, when interviewed by El Pais in October 2007, said this about the continued criticism of the PJ by the McCanns through their spokespersons:



"Yes, but they talked with the family and the press, not with the police. And it must be understood that the British press also works in this way. They made unfair remarks but we cannot react to this on a daily basis and play ping pong, the PJ against the British press. We are not interested in this game: We have a different tradition to theirs, one of less communication and the judicial secrecy that restricts us."



To suggest that the PJ are behind this leak is an insult to all the hard work and diligence they have displayed over the long months of the inquiry.



Only one group of people benefits from this leak and its fallout: The McCanns. Albeit on a superficial and short term level.



Those of us passionately concerned about securing truth and justice for Madeleine - as opposed to those whose only concern appears to be clearing the McCanns of their arguido status - should actually be heartened by the events of yesterday and today.



For it shows that the McCanns and their team have only the battlegrounds of PR and spin on which to fight.



Justice for Madeleine will not be served by a newspaper headline or a man in a pink shirt.



It will be served in law.



And that process continues...

Cláudia said...

Have a great afternoon, all. :-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

A little while ago some of the ladies on this forum were discussing the cervical cancer jabs and their advisability. I state now that I have no axe to grind either way but thought that the article from my local newspaper might help (or not).

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/
commentandanalysis/3726309.Why_I_
won_t_let_my_girls_have_these_cancer
_jabs/

southerncross said...

Hallo ICTOAN

Many thanks for the link, makes interesting reading! We have made the decision after quite intense research and I had to sign a refusal note for my daughter's school. There were a large number of 17 year olds who opted out.

viv said...

Hiya again Niki

That is the point, I agree. Why would innocent parents want a massive fund that they use to instruct firms like Red Defence International, Control Risks Group? These firms are media spinners, they have nothing to do with findind Maddie, their role is to protect the reputations of Kate and Gerry McCann. Angus McBride, a lawyer also has the stated purpose of protecting the reputations of clients whilst they are accused of offending behaviour. So it is clear, all Kate and Gerry McCann continue to care about is themselves. We saw them laugh in PDL, we did not see them search, that says it all. They were selfish to their children in dumping them day and night and that tradition continues, Madeleine did not even get a decent burial, their reputations were far too important for that.

God Bless Her wherever she is, we will continue to demand justice for an innocent little child who did not deserve to be neglected or to die. No child deserves such wicked treatment.

Justice for dear little Maddie!

xx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

ST

Course I is fik. Your anymouse said the other day dat we ant got no brain btwin us.

docmac said...

SC

I must say I am rather taken aback by the decision you and seemingly many other parents have made. There is no way my daughter (almost 19) is not getting this one.

ICTOAN, it is also distressing to see that the mother quoted in that article has refused ALL vaccinations subsequent to the polio drops give to her first born. Over here that would constitute a criminal offence. And I agree.

docmac said...

Rosiepops said...

Blah blah blah "When Vile's blog was closed, THICTOAN actually had to explain to the not so good doctor that most surgeons are referred to as 'Mister' in the medical profession"

WRONG. You need to read more. The world does not just consist of Britain, eh. Surgeons who arrogantly call themselves 'Mister' are the subject of great ridicule at conferences :-))))) Most of them change their name tags to 'Dr' on the first day.

docmac said...

BTW ICTOAN

Have you noticed that ST almost never moderates comments between mid afternoon and late at night. Works shifts down at the local cholesterol palace frying chips maybe?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hi Doc

The debate here about the MMR vaccine (though I think there is a fourth element now) still rumbles on.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

More likely ST does the frying at McDonald's or Burger King hoping that anonymous will drop by.

docmac said...

ICTOAN

The MMR vaccine is safe. Has been for quite some time. The really worrying one was actually the DPT (the P part) which is also now quite innocuous.

It's a strange thing, this fear of vaccines. Similar to my fear of flying in a way. It's not rational, but there you go.

dylan said...

Hi all,

Can't stop for long as I'm off to London shortly.

Just wanted to reiterate (I'm sure I posted this before) that the foundation for the "mister" title for surgeons is entirely British - based. It originates from the days when barbers here were allowed to perform routine surgery as well as shaves, haircuts and "something for the weekend". This lead to proper medical surgeons here to adopt the title of mister to discriminate themselves from barbers. Therefore, any person of intellect would realise that this was not a trans-national tradition (us Brits can tend toward quirky) and that it is more likely than not that SA surgeons do not follow it. In fact, we have it on good faith from Docmac that this is not the case in SA - so stop trying to use it to beat him with. Thanks!

Bye all. I'll catch up on Sunday :-)

xx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I have an appointment for my flu jab early next month without any worries. The Government however have been obliged to mount a publicity campaign to encourage take-up.

docmac said...

Dyl

It's not the case anywhere else in the world. Enjoy London!

ICTOAN there may be a universal flu vac available in a few years :-)

The USS Theodore Roosevelt is about 100km from my house right now waiting to enter Table Bay. She is ENORMOUS!!! A truly fantastic sight. Guess who's going to Signal Hill tomorrow :-))

ICantThinkOfAName said...

She must be big if you can see her from 100km !!!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

It must be you going up Signal Hill as I think Theo went up San Juan Hill.

dylan said...

Still waiting for taxi :(

I have to agree with Doc and I am certainly having my daughter vaccinated. Her school is only giving it to yr 8s this year but her turn will be next year. Since cervical cancer can be transmitted by a common virus (genital warts) I do not see it any differently from any other vaccines and I am sure there are millions of women that could have been saved if it had been developed earlier.

Anyway, who am I to say? I'm just a mum with a low IQ as the sewer blog would have it!

Taxi!!

xx

docmac said...

ICTOAN, this is by far the biggest ship I have ever seen. Will forward a pic thtough Viv on the weekend if possible.

Dyl, good for you. I can understand why some may be sceptical, but vaccines have had an unfair rap. Travel safely.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I assume it is making for the naval base at Simon's Town?

docmac said...

Wow, ST

Well done! Yes, there are a number of Birminghams around :-)

We don't know which one Mark resides in, do we? I think he's in Samoa, just around the corner from you.

docmac said...

No, ICTOAN.

She's going to mooring in the middle of Table Bay, not far from Robben Island. Simonstown is in False Bay. Where Opus's cousins live. And also home to the SA Navy.

docmac said...

be mooring!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Will there be a protest from the anti-nuclear lobby?

docmac said...

There was, but permission was granted by the National Nuclear Regulator. One of her sister ships was denied entry into the bay after the very same regulator refused permission some years back.

docmac said...

This is what the local paper reported ICTOAN.

docmac said...

ETA it was only 3 years ago. It feels like a lot longer.

Zodiac said...

Hi all,

Well nobody even noticed I was not around. Boo hoo! I was dragged from my bed in the very early hours one evening and hurled into a waiting police car and have been in the clink for nearly a week for blogging on the internet about the M McC disappearance without permission of M'Lud and Lady Mucca. I have been ordered to hand over all my money, my house/s, car/s and anything else with monetary value, by a Judge on the steps of the High Court in London. Well I think it was a Judge or maybe just someone with a bad hairdo. Yeah right in Rosialrowallamum21soopertrollocks kagermucaclarras dreams!

BBFN

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

All those statistics makes my head spin.

Zodiac

You got of lightly then, I thought you were going to get an ASBO.

Cláudia said...

"Course I is fik. Your anymouse said the other day dat we ant got no brain btwin us." ROTFLMAO!!!

S"he must be big if you can see her from 100km !!!"
Why are you talking about Aunty Phil?

Cláudia said...

Zodiac, did they make you kneel down on a frozen pea for your sins?

docmac said...

Thought it was a broken ashtray, Claudia.

Wizard said...

Just come across on 3A’s a link to a book on training etc of cadaver dogs. The full book makes an interesting read and is complete on line. For those who wish to have a look click on the link

Cláudia said...

Doc, yeah, an ashtray. That was it! :-)

Wizard, thank you for the link. :-)

docmac said...

Wizard

Please don't let Mark see that link ;-)))

docmac said...

ModNrodder Today at 3:41 pm

The reputable source is very reputable indeed and this has been 'in process' for quite a while. Days are numbered for 3A's and they will soon be officially Zero Arguido. I suppose there will be an influx on all the other boards and blogs.

Want a bet? What does the queen bee have to say? You and Nige should really get back to leaning over each other whilst discussing pistons and cylinders :-))

Cláudia said...

Doc, these people are pathetic. They still leave in the fantasy world that people's thoughts and opinions can be controlled. They can't. And everytime they try to do it, another blog or discussion board is born.

docmac said...

Exactly, Claudia.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

Have you posted that on 3A or did it come from there?

Cláudia said...

Doc, let them dream. :-)

docmac said...

No, ICTOAN. It came from here.

docmac said...

Lot of Briansdreams fans, Claudia. What a load of male bovine waste. Erm, wife just got home. Will be long ;-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, :-)

docmac said...

Before I go. Check it out. ST is frying again :-) No modded posts will appear for the next 3 hours ;-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, he could let one of its friend take over moderation. But a little bird told me that ST trusts no one...

ratonthebeam said...

Is this the same "reputable" source that brought us....

All the mods at the 3As are in jail, following an anonymous phone call from Supertroll?
Viv has been arrested?
Alsabella has been arrested?
All the anti posters are getting big white envelopes?
Doc is not really a Doctor?
Viv is not really a lawyer?
Claudia is being watched by the PJ?
Pinkie is suing us all?

Yes, yes Nigel, we believe you. Not.

You really should stop posting such empty threats and grandiose lies. It only makes you look even more desperate and stupid. And OF COURSE we are all going to believe you when you tell us that the scum you defend are completely innocent.

In your dreams.

Di said...

Good evening all

Just wanted to say hi before I have a quick look back. I have not had time to read today, I hope I have not missed anything of interest!

Zodiac said...

'did they make you kneel down on a frozen pea for your sins?'


No Claudia. However they did let M55 set about my teeth with a drill, it was like a scene from Marathon man.

Cláudia said...

Zodiac, PMSL!
It's like a scene from Chuky!

Cláudia said...

Hello, Di. :-)

Rat, LOL.

I'm being watched by the PJ? That's great. That way, no 'accident' will happen to me.
;-)
That list was hilarious!

Di said...

Hello Claudia

Rat the list LOL

I received an email today which I have dismissed out of hand. I did not even bother to open the attachment.

Hallo

New clauses have been added to the legislation regulating your online activities; some of the operations are now considered illegal. The new law has come into force as of 25.09.2008; the penalties have been toughened.

Please read the new document and be more accurate further on.

Please remember me to your parents.

The last line said it all for me, my parents are long gone.

Sado

hope4truth said...

Rat

I think my favorite moment was when the 3As went down after the fire and a certain person was trying to take credit for it...

I am sure it was you who said the FBI would be very intreseted LOL xxx

hope4truth said...

Oh and BTW who is Nigel have I missed something???

Di said...

Hello Hope

I think certain people are very rattled at the moment.


Who is Nigel? I have no idea either.

hope4truth said...

Di

What e mail???

Is it now illegal to worry about a 3 year old child openly neglected by her parents who is missing with stron evidence pointing to the fact she died (or someone died) in 5A?

The day it is illegal to be concerend for neglected children will be one of the saddest days in history.

hope4truth said...

Hi DI

I am glad you are in the dark like me I am always the last to know anything LOL

DO you like my Ston evidence it is nearly as daming as Strong evidence xxx

Di said...

Hope

My above post from Hallo- was an e-mail I received today it came with an attachment but I won't open it.

hope4truth said...

Di

How did they get your e mail address??

Strange they should use Hallo after telling Doc he had spelt it wrong???

xxx

Di said...

It came from a Jarrett Chan.

Maybe Hallo is very common I don't know.

Di said...

To be honest Hope, I get quite alot of spam, although this went into my inbox.

I am sure it is probably very easy for people to get e-mail addresses these days.

Off to watch Corie back later.

Di said...

Just back before the next part of Corie.

This is worth reading on 3A's

LINK

docmac said...

Hi Hope and Di

Hallo is common to all the Germanic languages and their derivatives. Nothing sinister about it at all. Unless you're a xenophobic non traveller called Ro*****ps.

Just been reading up about dentistry, as my middle son literally 'ran' into a problem this evening. How easy is that subject ;-) It should be a two year course max (Waves, Bark :-)))))

hope4truth said...

Hi Doc

Yes it is common (but some people think that English is the only language)...

Do you know who Nigel is???

Is your son OK??? x

docmac said...

Hi Di. Very interesting, as is the comparison between K&G's statements. Do you think there may have been just a little bit of rehearsal going on :-)


GM - On the Sunday, they had breakfast, between 7.30 and 8.30am at the Ocean Club in the bar a few metres from the apartment. In the days following, because of the distance to the said bar, they started buying food at the supermarket, situated on the same road as the apartment.

KM - The day after their arrival, they went for breakfast at around 7.30/8.30 at the Ocean Club, in a bar situated some distance from the apartment. On the following days, because the bar was quite far away, they started buying supplies from the "BAPTISTE" supermarket, located on the same road as the apartment and they had their first meal of the day in the apartment.

GM - After breakfast, the children were left at one of the Club's Crèches, called the, "Kid's Club," where they participated in various activities such as painting, collage etc. This was until 12.30pm, supervised by several employees in a ratio of one supervisor to three children.

KM - After breakfast, at around 9/9.30am, the children went to the club called the "KIDS CLUB" where they did various activities such as painting, collage etc. They stayed there until around 12.30pm, constantly supervised by several Ocean Club employees in a ratio of three children to one employee. Within the "Kids Club" because of the difference in ages, the twins were in one group and Madeleine in another, with separate activities.

GM - At 12.30pm, the parents went to collect the children and had lunch in the apartment since they had bought provisions. Lunch over, at around 1.30pm, the children spent time near the club's swimming pool, supervised by their parents, for around 45 minutes, where they played and had sun cream applied.

KM - At 12.30pm, they collect their children and have lunch in their apartment since they have provisions. After lunch, at around 1.30pm, the children spend time close to the club's swimming pool, supervised by the parents, for about 45 minutes, where they play and have sun cream applied.

GM - After that time, the children returned to the, "Kid's Club," until around 5pm, when they had dinner at the bar, under the parents' supervision.

KM After this time, they take the children to the "Kids Club" until around 5/5.30pm, the time when the children eat in a bar under the watchful gaze of the parents.

GM - After the 5pm meal, the parents gave them a bath and before getting them ready for the night, allowed them to play for a little while in the area next to the tennis courts, still under the parents' supervision.

KM - After the 5pm dinner, they give the children a bath, prepare them for the night and let them play for a while in a playground next to the tennis courts, still and always under parental supervision.

GM - Towards 7.30/8pm the children were in bed until morning, when the routine described, started all over again. While the children were at the, "Kid's Club," GERRY played tennis with KATE, went for walks or went, "jogging."

KM - At around 8pm, the children are put to bed until the following morning when the described routines start all over again. While the children are at the "Kids Club," the interviewee played tennis with her husband, went for walks, read or went "Jogging."


From the official files :-)))

docmac said...

Yes Hope, he is fine.

Enjoyed telling the dentist he is way overpaid for what he actually does though. Shit, a police officer could do that work. And my ex father in law is one ;-))

Nigel is Nigel Nessling aka Vee8 aka sleuth aka a whole lot of other names.

hope4truth said...

Oh Right

I thought Vee8 was a woman (or a vegatable drink)...

Glad he is ok x

hope4truth said...

off to watch wire in the blood xxx

docmac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cláudia said...

Doc, loved your description of Nige! :-)

docmac said...

Here is Bum's PSP version of me. Hey Bum, doesn't PSP have the minimum filter or blending options? Love the incisor directly under the nose though. Is that your own set of gumhuggers you put in there? Oh, you guru you! Wonder how long that took :-)))

docmac said...

Was wondering when you would come out of the cupboard, Claudia.

Di said...

Hi Doc/Hope

Doc, sorry I must have missed something regarding your son, whatever it was I am glad to see you are saying he is fine :o))

Hope Vee8, you do make me laugh;o)

Doc

K & G's statements, many rehearsals imo.

I was thinking if my child had gone missing, would I be mentioning we applied sun cream or other insignificant points, NO.

Why? all the mention of parental supervision, could that be because they have extremely guilty consciences.

Ooops sorry, I was forgetting we are talking about the McCanns!

Cláudia said...

Doc, you still look more attractive than old ugly bum. And not as scary. :-)

docmac said...

Di, my son lost a tooth playing a rugby match today during the school holidays. We are not insured against sports injuries out of term. The dentist asked for a small fortune to fix it. I told him to get stuffed, we'd go elsewhere. We got an 85% discount :-))

Cláudia said...

Doc,

Cláudia said...

why

Cláudia said...

were

Cláudia said...

you

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