22 Jan 2010

WHAT THE MCCANNS DO NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT Payne suspected of paedophilia

Payne suspected of paedophilia

19 July 2008 687 views One Comment

Source: Correio da Manhã 19.07.2008, paper edition. Translations by forum posters Kazlux and Astro (here)

Depositions – Doctor friends of the McCanns spoke to the English police

Payne suspected of paedophilia

David Payne

David Payne

Twelve days after Maddie disappeared, a couple revealed the strange behaviour of one of the group’s members. Testimonies only reached the Judiciária in January this year

David Payne, one of the McCanns’ friends that were on holidays in the Algarve on the 3rd of May last year, when Madeleine disappeared, was suspected of paedophile behaviours.

The accusations were brought by a couple of friends that spent their holidays with part of the group in the summer of 2005 – themselves also English doctors. Twelve days after the British girl disappeared, Katherina and Arul could no longer keep the secret that had bothered them for two years and went to the police to make a statement. They revealed two conversations between Dave and Gerry, during which both revealed suspicious behaviour and indicated sex with minors.

According to what CM was able to establish, the depositions were given on the 16th of May. But they only entered the process in January 2008 and are included in the 13th volume of the process files. At that point in time, Kate and Gerry were already arguidos, the rogatory letters had already been issued and the English, including Dave, showed their reluctance in returning to Portugal.

Touching the nipple

Katherina made a statement that was eight pages long. She reported holidays in Mallorca with several English [people], including the McCanns and the Paynes. Two incidents left her with serious doubts about the friends’ behaviour and lead her to create suspicions that were never confirmed.

The first one happened on a night when Gerry and Dave were talking about Maddie. Katherina does not know what they were saying but she remembers that Dave sucked on his fingers, pushing them into the mouth and pulling them out again, while his other hand traced a circle around the nipple, with a circular movement over the clothes. “That was done in a provocative manner”, recalls Katherina, who says that it stuck to her memory.

Days later, the scene repeated itself. The doctor saw Dave making the same gestures again, while he talked about his own daughter. Scared, Katherina said nothing about the incident. But she took special caution, asking her husband never to let the doctor come close to the bathroom when her daughter was having a bath.

Arul went to the police to tell the same story. Katherina’s companion confirmed the gestures that were made by Dave during the conversation with Gerry but asserted that he wasn’t aware that they were talking about Maddie. He did find the behaviour in extremely bad taste, but didn’t see it being repeated.

The incident ended up forgotten in his memory and it was only the disappearance of Madeleine, who had also been with them on the Mallorca vacation, that revived it.

During the deposition, Katherina went even further and said she had associated the gestures to someone who likes to watch child pornography. “I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a different manner”, she concluded.

Friends from school days

Arul and Kate were friends from their school days. They have known each other for approximately 20 years and that was the motive that led the couple to accompany the McCanns on their holidays to Mallorca. Arul and Katherina did not know Fiona and Dave and they only met again once, during a dinner that gathered several couples. When Maddie disappeared from the Ocean Club, Katherina remembered the incident in Mallorca. And she immediately tried to verify whether Dave had again been accompanying the McCann couple, as the suspicions about his behaviour still stood. In the deposition that was made to the English police, Katherina says she decided to give a statement when she saw the tv images. Dave was among the same holiday group.

Doubts in the case

Irishman not heard – An Irishman who was spending holidays in Praia da Luz also went to the English police to report that on the night of the 3rd of May he saw Gerry carrying Madeleine towards the beach. He was never heard through a rogatory letter.

Sending delayed – The difference between the date when the deposition was obtained and the time when it was sent is not explained in the process.CM knows that the English authorities did not provide an explanation, either.

Bank account info – The PJ tried to know the bank account situation of every element of the group, in order to search for possible motives for the crime. But the English answers were laconic and did not help the investigation.

Life stories – The life stories of Gerry and Kate McCann remain unknown. The PJ tried to verify whether Maddie’s mother suffered from depression but never received her clinical records, because the judge did not allow it.

Kate accused of conditioning the case

An intercalary report from the Polícia Judiciária, which was produced immediately before Kate and Gerry were made arguidos, accuses Madeleine’s parents of having conditioned the investigation. The document is signed by an inspector and was directed to Gonçalo Amaral, who was then coordinating the process.

The investigator then stated that the information that had been collected initially, was worked by the group in order to sustain the abduction theory. He guarantees that they all lied to protect themselves and even suggests that some could have been covering the crime up.

The testimony from Janne Turner [sic], who guarantees that she saw a man crossing the street with a child in his arms, is also questioned. The policeman said that Janne [sic] was only two or three metres away from Gerry but he failed to see the man. And that, by stating that the man was headed towards Murat’s house, she ended up orienting the investigation into a false direction, which led to an unnecessary waste of time.

The same report exposes other contradictions in the English’s depositions. Kate and Gerry say that they picked up their children from the crèche at 5.30 p.m., but while the former guarantees that they went for a half-hour run on the beach and only then returned to the apartment, her husband states that they went to play tennis during that period.

After that, at around 8 p.m., one of the elements of the group reportedly went to the apartment that had been rented by the couple. Kate says that he was there only for 30 seconds and then left. Gerry speaks about half an hour. The policeman remembers that the time difference is what is needed between asking whether everything is well, or advancing in case a crime has to be concealed.

Another situation that the authorities found strange was the fact that Kate, upon realizing that Maddie had disappeared, remained inside the apartment for ten minutes. Only then did she ask for help, leaving the twins asleep in their cots while she returned to the restaurant. The policeman who wrote the report asks how it is possible that a mother facilitates the safety of her other children when it is certain that by that time she was already screaming that her daughter had been abducted.

They could not see the apartment

Another contradiction was pointed out by the inspector who was in charge of the Maddie case. The policeman remembered that the McCanns asserted that their position inside the restaurant was a strategic one, so they could see the apartment where their children were sleeping. But according to several testimonies, Kate and Gerry had their backs turned to the apartment.

from the same page:

PJ admitted a simulation of the scenario

The arrival of the dogs that detected cadaver odours and blood traces led the PJ to admit that some of the details where Maddie had been sleeping had been staged to sustain the abduction theory. One of the examples that were pointed out in one of the many reports that were written by the investigators was the fact that the soft toy was on the bed where Maddie slept, a bed that was partially undone. The animals detected odours on the child’s toy, but they did not mark her death on that spot. Which led the PJ to admit that Maddie had died in another area of the house, and then the toy was taken to the bed because it was the most likely spot in case of an abduction. Other details were analysed, like the fact that the furniture was too well positioned and the sofa was completely pushed against the wall.


  • Investigated leads – The final report is clear. All the leads were investigated, the abduction theory was verified into detail. But the investigation’s main conclusions pointed towards the death of the child in the apartment, on the 3rd of May.
  • 300 policemen were looking for Madeleine McCann during the first days. The PJ stresses that many among them spent several weeks sleeping only a few hours.
  • 2000 diligences were made by the Judiciária during their search for Madeleine. International cooperation was requested on several moments, to exclude several cases of false sightings.
  • High costs – The PJ spared no costs throughout this investigation. Millions of euros were spent on the investigation into the disappearance, namely on the high payments that were made to the labs that collected the genetic profiles.
  • Suspicions – Dave’s involvement is considered again

Parents refused technical help

Works with endangered children and approached the McCanns in the Algarve. Found the behaviour strange

Yvone, who earned credentials from the English government to work in situations that involve endangered children, was in the Algarve when Maddie disappeared but the McCanns refused her help. The specialist told the PJ, during two depositions that were made one month apart from each other, that she approached the couple after the first few hours and that the behaviour from both left her with suspicions about their involvement in the disappearance.

The behaviour of David Payne, who was accused by a couple of doctors that spent holidays with him in 2005, of having attitudes that indiciated paedophile practices, also left Yvone intrigued. The McCanns’ friend had called them aside and advised them not to speak to the technician.

Yvone found another detail strange. David’s face was not unfamiliar to her, and the technician believes he might have been inquired before, within some case of sexual abuse. She tried to remember when but failed to locate moment and the circumstances under which she had met him.

The days went by and Yvone continued to think about the issue. She then sent a letter to the English police, where she pointed out the details that she had perceived. Namely, that the bedroom window had not been forced open, that it was not normal for a couple of doctors to leave their children alone and that Kate had reacted in an aggressive manner when she had approached her. She also alerted to the official statistics, that point towards the majority of these cases to involve a cover-up from the families.

Gonçalo Amaral’s book upsets the English

A delegation from the British justice left for London yesterday after having tried, in Portimão, to keep some details of the process under secrecy.

The English, who according to what CM was able to establish, are upset about possible revelations that the book from the former coordinator of the PJ in Portimão may make, tried to request the instruction judge to maintain the secrecy on the forensics reports about the blood traces and cadaver odour that were collected from the apartment at the Ocean Club, but also other parts from the process.

As far as CM was able to establish, the pretentions from the English delegation were denied, except in the case of the identity of persons that have condemnations or a police record of paedophilia which reside in the Algarve or were spending holidays in the region when the facts took place.

The British that were in Portimão are policeman Stuart Prior, one of the senior liaison officers with the Portuguese police, a magistrate and a jurist from SOCA, the British agency that specializes in investigation organized crime.

It is not known whether the trip was made under a rogatory letter or politically negotiated between the governments of both countries.

“In defense of my good name”

The book by Gonçalo Amaral is written in defense of his honour. “I felt the need to reinstate my good name, which was publicly rubbished while the institution that I belonged to for 26 years, the Polícia Judiciária, didn’t allow me to defend myself, or did so institutionally”, Gonçalo Amaral states in a text that justifies the book. In order to carry out that defense, he requested permission from the national directory but never obtained it. The book, which will be presented by Marques Vidal, a former director of the Judiciária, is launched on the 24th of this month, during a session that is scheduled for El Corte Inglés, in Lisbon.

Loose notes:

Laboratory | Decisive test – The final report ended up being decisive for the foreseeable archiving of the process. In that document, which CM revealed, the possibility of DNA contamination was admitted.

Archived | AG announced – The day after tomorrow, the AG will release a communication that will most likely announce the archiving of the process. The case will remain pending in Portimão’s Public Ministry, waiting for better evidence.

Reconstitution | Stopped – The reconstitution of the evening of the disappearance was a diligence that was seen as essential in the process. It was stopped because some of the McCanns’ friends did not accept to return.

Wardrobe | Odour detected – The English dogs signaled traces of Maddie’s death behind the sofa and in the bedroom wardrobe. On the bed, the animals didn’t detect anything.

Contamination | Traces – The authorities have no doubts that the contamination of the location made the investigation more difficult. During the first few hours, tens of people entered the bedroom.

Removed | By phone – Gonçalo Amaral was the target of various attacks and was removed by Alípio Ribeiro, by phone, after making a statement to a newspaper.

Letter | Paedophile register – Yvone, in the letter that she sent to the English police, wanted the authorities to verify whether Dave had a register of paedophile activities.

source: Correio da Manhã 19.07.2008, paper edition


viv said...

From the website, simply called The Bastard, and clearly not very Pro McCann, aside from the article below which is a good analysis of the "McCanns 180 degrees turnaround on the drugged claim", they also have a piece about Mr Paeodphile Payne.


Madeleine, Sean and Amelie McCann were Drugged after all!

Legal Bastards
Dr Suusi Watson 11/10/2009 13:13

Madeleine McCann One Way or the Other
UK - The latest from the McCann truth manipulation machine is that the kidnapper drugged all three children, to keep them quiet, when Madeleine was kidnapped. Not only that but he had a key!

Former police detectives David Edgar and Arthur Cowley claim to have spent months re-analysing every shred of evidence.

They are convinced the ­abductor went to the family’s apartment on May 3 2007 fully prepared with sufficient drugs, probably ­chloroform, to knock out all three children.

Rewind back two years, to August 2007 and Kate and Gerry McCann were denying that they had drugged their children.

The Portuguese Newspaper Correio de Manha suggested Madeleine's parents, both doctors, could have drugged Madeleine to help her sleep, accidentally giving her an fatal overdose.

Other Portuguese newspapers have repeatedly alleged that hair samples from Kate and Gerry McCann’s children show that the couple sedated the two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, and Madeleine on the night that she disappeared.

The McCann's have angrily denied the accusations, saying it was normal for their children to sleep through the night.

But then in October 2007 the couple claimed to have commissioned their own tests, which found no traces of sedatives in hair samples from Sean and Amelie.

A source close to the couple said: “Any legal team worth their salt would have these kinds of tests done. No evidence of sedatives were found in the twins’ systems.”

Hardly surprising if the hair was harvested in October, when the children's hair will have grown three inches in the six months in between the disappearance of Madeleine and now.

So after rubbishing the drugged theory we have a 180 degree turnaround. But then all is fair in love and war, and the 'find Madeleine' fund is running out of cash, so that the McCann's need to find another way of tapping the gullible public for donations.

Please Note that: the Find Madeleine fund is a private limited company, not a charity. As such the fund is not subject to the scrutiny of the charities commission, to ensure that it is administered wisely.

At the last set of accounts only some 17% had been spent on finding Madeleine. The rest on hotels, air fares, phone bills, private detectives and the kinds of lawyers that Companies like Trafigura and Robert Maxwell hire.

We should also like to point out that:
■although the McCann's could ask the Portuguese police to re-open the case into the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, but they have declined to.
■the Leicestershire police have resisted all attempts to get them to take up the investigation. As have the local social services
■Kate McCann obstructed the police investigation when she refused to answer more than 40 Question about the family, when asked by Portuguese Police. Link here
■Kate and Gerry McCann and the Tapas 7 refused to take part in the official police re-construction of events of 3 May 2007

So there is no REAL POLICE investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

viv said...

but oh what a laugh, Dr Suusi Watson!

viv said...

Maybe there is a bit of a Tony Bennett slant going on here, he does not like Leicester Police, does he?

Never mind Tones, all will be revealed in time and I can understand you, of all people, not being to fond of the Police !

viv said...

shame he had to revert to the Papal We at the end and the attack on Leicester Police, prior to that he had me fooled, it was good stuff!

There is an ongoing investigation of this case by Leiceser Police Tony, why do I know that, because they say so, and list the categories of documents they refuse to disclose and the reasons why!

Now stop being such a stupid old buffer and appealing to your feminine side. You are neither Homes nor Watson, just face it!

viv said...

Goncalo's book, we are all going back for another read, thanks to Kate and Gerry McCann. I am up to chapter 5 and he has certainly not said they killed Madeleine but he does give the most extraordinary details of the suspicious behaviour of Kate and Gerry McCann. Most especially Kate, it has to be said. Who changed Jane's description of the abductor from collar length hair, light coloured trousers to long hair and jeans! Goncalo describes how Maddie was said to be delighted by the presence of her daddy, but no mention of a similar reaction to Kate. But extracted below is pretty astounding behaviour by Gerry McCann. It is interesting to note that Scotland Yard were always involved. So much for Rosie insisting they should take over and do a proper job! An an English bobby comments well he is a heart surgeon he cuts people open before breakfast! Now if that is not implying they are dealing with a decidedly oddfish I do not know what is!

Given the details about the odd behaviour of the McCanns I can certainly understand them wanting this book banning, but they do not refer to any of them, as such, just the claim it is defamtory because he draws the conclusion Madeleine died. He was clearly not alone in that conclusion!

viv said...

I recall the McCanns just had to fit in a trip to Holland to see their friends there, it was terribly important to them, and then we get this ! They left the twins to go off on this European tour, to Germany and Holland? What made them think Maddie would be there!! At least they got what they deserved on German TV, a direct accusation they were involved in her disappearance and do not act like normal parents who lost a child, as Goncalo confirms they were right about that !


On June 14th, the parents are contacted by a stranger who states that he is in possession of information about Madeleine's whereabouts. Following the advice of the investigators, the McCanns set up an email address in order to maintain contact more easily and to better evaluate the reliability of the source. In the course of exchanges, the stranger demands 2 million Euros, of which an advance of 500,000 Euros must be sent to a person of his acquaintance in The Netherlands.

A rogatory letter is obtained. The Dutch courts and police are asked for assistance in locating and identifying the individual. The McCanns are anxious and impatient; they think the emails sent are credible and they respond very quickly. They lived in The Netherlands with Madeleine before the birth of the twins. Would someone they knew there have kidnapped their little girl to obtain a ransom? Kate and Gerald are convinced they are going to succeed, thanks to this lead, in finding Madeleine. But that conviction will not last long, as we will find out later.

Informed of these mails, the Portuguese PJ, acting in agreement with the English and Dutch police, engage in negotiations by email with the informant. The police advise Gerald McCann on how to act in order to obtain the maximum information. If the lead turned out to be credible, Madeleine might be freed and her abductors captured.

One day, we were all together at the PJ in Portimao - inspectors and negotiators, members of Scotland Yard and the Leicestershire police - waiting for a contact to define the place and the conditions for the handing over of the money in Holland; when the tension was at its height and we were all holding our breath, Gerald McCann displayed a nonchalance that surprised all of the police officers present, including the English. The atmosphere got heavier as the waiting drew out, but McCann, relaxed, was reading trivia on the internet and discussing rugby and football with the English police, while licking a lollipop. On the telephone, he laughed with friends who called him. Perhaps this was nervousness; sometimes it's totally displaced, given what is at stake at the time. His attitude shocked. When, two days later the dutch police informed us that the individual had been arrested, that he was not holding any information and had lied from start to finish with the sole objective of extorting money from the couple, we were not surprised.

Did Gerald McCann know that this lead would take us to a dead end? Is that the reason he appeared to be so nonchalant? Or was it due to the coldness that he never lost throughout the investigation - an attitude that made one of the English police officers say: "Don't forget he's a heart surgeon and he cuts people open before breakfast. "

viv said...

Goncalo is understandably unforgiving about Kate's claims to have come back and found Maddie's bedroom window wide open and the curtain fluttering. Firstly, he points out that Jane says she saw the abductor at 9.15 and so when Mat Oldfield supposedly went to check Madeleine at 9.30 she was already gone, therefore the window would have been open. But he did not notice!

But more damning still, he simply tells us it is quite impossible to open the shutter from the outside, it just has to be done from the inside. Given it is security shutter that figures!

So he poses the question, if the abductor entered by the open patio door, which the McCanns insist he did not because they could see it, which Goncalo says they could not, it was obscured, why would he then open the window and leave via that with Madeleine? That is a good question! Clearly one that is currently rattling Kate given her latest blogging.

viv said...

Kate McCann now tells us in her latest blog (which curiously she has generally left for Gerry to do but is clearly now very worried) I have to confess that as a result of the court hearings in Portugal and Kate's reactions the notion that she killed Madeleine has increased in strength a great deal for me.

She says below she knows Madeleine did not wander off by herself, but how could she know that given she was not there. English Police found a wall chart detailing the very poor sleeping pattern of Madeleine where she was waking several times a night! It was also confirmed in the investigation that she regularly gave the children calpol to make them sleep, Gerry's mother confirmed that. Goncalo is concerned this contains antihistamine!

It sounds incredibly desperate and foolish to suggest this "abductor" just opened the window as some sort of "red herring". As Goncalo points out, it would be audacious attack to walk in there and steal madeleine, knowing the parents could walk back in at any time. Even more audacious to mess about with red herrings in the process!

Abduction theory:For us, there is only the abduction theory possible because we were not involved in Madeleine's disappearance and we know Madeleine did not wander off by herself. It is obvious and right that the police should consider other theories initially.

The window: I described to the police officers exactly what I found that night, as it was and is highly relevant and I knew that every little detail could be helpful in finding my daughter which is our only aim. The window which is a ground floor window was completely open and is large enough for a person to easily climb through it. Whether it had been opened for this purpose remains unknown. It could of course have been opened by the perpetrator when inside the apartment as a potential escape route or left open as a 'red herring'

viv said...

When Goncalo again wanted to try and track Maddie with sniffer dogs, Kate handed him a towel which she said had been used to dry Madeleine?

This intelligent doctor, did not offer him some of Maddie's worn clothes?

I suspect she had machine washed them several times by that stage!

viv said...

I do not mean him personally, I mean his investigators!

viv said...

More from Goncalo, Uk just keep sending all these specialist police and Kate gets one the sack pdq who asks her outright where is Maddie. He gets replaced by a Pt officer, is that Ricardo Paiva? I would have thought so. Kate seems very shocked, months later when he is telling her he was not her friend after all and they need to come in again in September for questioning. Clearly conned her a little better than the Brit officers!

I am sure it makes Kate go hot with rage to think of people reading all of this!

Special surveillance teams as well as information and telecommunications technicians ...leaving no stone unturned to monitor Kate and Gerry McCann!

Two days later, English colleagues begin to arrive. The main idea was for the English police to place at our disposal two specialists in family supervision and support to be the link between the Portuguese investigators and the McCanns. The National Directorate of the PJ had authorised the arrival of these police officers in the context of international collaboration. Bob Small, an officer from the Leicestershire police, and one of his colleagues meet us to take stock of the situation and evaluate the needs of the investigation before making contact with the couple.

We insist on knowing what our English counterparts have come to Portugal to do. I assign one of my investigators to follow the English superintendent like a shadow and to keep me informed about his actions. I want to be informed of everything he learns, the names of the people he meets and the places he goes to.

Then the two police officers arrive who are assigned to psychological support and communication with the family. Little by little, the number of English police officers grows exponentially. We place at their disposal a room next to our crisis unit, Task Portugal. These are specialists from various police services, including Scotland Yard. Special surveillance teams as well as information and telecommunications technicians turn up with their laptops and various high-tech equipment. Others will come to join us, notably profilers: they will develop a profile of the alleged abductor from which a number of possible scenarios will be constructed. The analysts trace timelines and patterns of connections based on the witness statements gathered. They produce giant summary boards that cover the walls of the offices. They attend all our meetings and collaborate in decision-making. They are the intermediary through which requests for information are sent to Great Britain, and it is they who receive the responses and enquiries.

On May 14th, Kate Healy is indignant about the attitude of the liaison officer, who asks her where her daughter is. Neither she nor her husband accepts anyone doubting their word. The officer will be sent packing - and his colleague too - a week after his arrival. That attitude is, to say the least, shocking on the part of parents confronted by such a situation, that, what is more, is in a foreign country. Those two police officers, who distinguished themselves through long experience in the management of situations of kidnap and abduction, were, all the same, entirely at their disposal; they provided daily logistical and legal support, and afforded them all the help they could have needed.

Curiously, the English do not consider it expedient to disclose the incident and the PJ are not informed. Myself, I only learn of it indirectly. Finally, a solution is found quickly: the two men are replaced by a Portuguese man who speaks fluent English.

viv said...

well no she gets two Brit cops the sack pdq actually. Could this Pt man who speaks fluent English be the one from Scotland Yard who Goncalo wanted to call, as an alternative to Ricardo Paiva, do not know if he speaks fluent English but he clearly did get very close to the McCanns.

Not that he is now (or ever was)

Bad luck Kate!

viv said...

Ah Ricardo Paiva is assigned to assist the UK officers on 15 May who are drowning in a flood of clairvoyants and people who are certain they have seen little Maddie, even their hightech computer system is buckling under the weight!

The English ply him with tea and cakes!

viv said...

Even the Acting Chief Constable Chris Eyre was there for high level meetings Guilhermino Encarnacao, Luis Neves Goncalo in addition to Chief Det Super Bob Small and Det Super Stu Prior. It is amazing the amount of top brass that were sent!

viv said...

Did Team McCann even do this?

On May 10th, the crisis unit's meeting goes on until 2'oclock in the morning.

I receive a phone call from Sofia, who insists on my going home: our Shitzu dog is dead. She found it that morning, lifeless on the ground, with a head injury. She did everything to make sure the girls did not see it, but she didn't have the courage to remove him. When I arrive, everyone is already in bed. I place the Shitzu in a plastic bag, not sure about where I am going to be able to bury him. The ground is hard here. it's not easy to dig a hole and I hardly have the time for it. I decide to drop his remains into a bin. The animal is small, but he seems to weigh more than usual. I use my car to take her. As I am getting rid of it, I realise just how easy it is to hide a body - and how difficult it is to bury....When I get back, I discuss it with Sofia: she is afraid. She asks me to abandon the investigation and to worry about our daughters rather than other people's. For her, the dog's death is a bad omen. I reply that she is unfair, that her fears are irrational. Justice must be done for Madeleine, as for all other children and adults. It's my duty as a police officer: to seek the truth so that justice may be done.

viv said...

Stitch up most fould.,..As if the memory of the McCann family's friends suddenly came back to them, all - Rachael Mampilly, wife of Matthew Oldfield, Fiona Payne, wife of David Payne, and Russell O'Brien Jane Tanner's partner - recall having seen Murat on the night of May 3rd, shortly after the announcement of the disappearance, in the immediate vicinity apartment 5A. Meanwhile, of course, Murat's picture has been shown on television and in certain newspapers. They themselves were in direct contact with him during the previous days. However, it is only on May 16th that they deliver this information to us. As for the officers of the National Guard who were on the spot, they didn't see him that night, only the next morning, when he came to offer his services as interpreter.

viv said...

The Smith sighting, and a very good description of Gerry albeit slightly flattering terms of age..They go in a northerly direction, the group spreading out; the children are never far away from the adults. There's nobody about. They climb a few steps to reach 25 de Abril street, cross it and turn left into 1 de Maio street, that runs along the west side of the Ocean Club. They haven't gone 30 metres when they come across a man walking up the middle of the road. He is carrying a child in his arms, head resting on his left shoulder. The Smiths don't see the face of the little girl, whose arms hang by her sides. She is dressed in pale-coloured, maybe pink, pyjamas; her feet are bare, she is white and she has blonde hair that covers her neck. The individual's appearance gives the impression that he is not a tourist. He is wearing cream-coloured or beige trousers, classic in style, perhaps linen or cotton. He is a white man, aged around 30 to 35, with no other distinguishing features: he is between 1.70m and 1.80m tall, is visibly in good physical condition; his brown hair is cut short, his face is tanned.

viv said...


Also allegedly in Greece!


Madeleine McCann is two and a half years old and the twins just a few months when they go on holiday to Majorca with their parents. Three couples and their children go with them: David and Fiona Payne with their one-year-old daughter (Fiona is pregnant with their second child); S. and T., with their two children aged 1 and 3; finally S.G. and K.G., who have a one and a half year old daughter, E. (K.G., is also expecting a child). The trip was organised by David Payne. The latter rented a villa big enough to accommodate all of them.

S.G. got to know Madeleine's mother at university in Dundee, between 1987 and 1992. K.G. met Gerry McCann for the first time at his wedding to Kate in 1998. They become good friends, see each other regularly, spend weekends together and phone each other often.

After dinner on the third or fourth evening in Majorca, the friends are all settled on the patio. They are having a drink and chatting when K.G. witnesses a scene which flabbergasts her and makes her fear for the safety of her daughter and the other children. She is sitting between Gerry McCann and David Payne when she hears the latter ask if she - probably Madeleine - did "that": he then puts a finger in his mouth and begins sucking it while putting it in and out - the sexual connotation is obvious - while with the other hand, he traces small small circles around his nipple in an explicitly provocative way. While K.G., stupefied, regards Gerry and David, an uneasy silences settles around the table. Then they all start chatting again as if nothing happened. K.G. starts to distrust the way David Payne relates to the little ones. On another occasion, she sees David Payne making the same gestures while speaking about his own daughter. At this time, it's the fathers who give the children their baths, but K.G. no longer lets Payne near her daughter. After the holiday, K.G. will only meet the Paynes on one occasion, and she will not speak to them. Over the next two years, relations between K.G., S.G. and the McCanns becomes distanced; they will only see each other now at children's birthday parties.

This witness statement from the couple, S.G. and K.G., is taken by the English police on May 16th, thirteen days after Madeleine's disappearance. That information, very important for the progress of the investigation, was never sent to the Portuguese police. When the Portuguese investigators learn about similar events that allegedly took place during a holiday in Greece - without, however, obtaining reliable witness statements -, they tell the English police, who, even at this point, refrain from revealing what they know on the subject.

viv said...

just to be clear all the above are extracted from the book of Goncalo Amaral, the Truth of the Lie which the McCanns want completely wiping out of existence!

Given a click on google gets you the book that does seem like a forlorn hope and obviously thanks to their efforts so many more people will have read it now.


viv said...

It just has to be said, it is not the least bit reasonable for this couple, who clearly have so much they want to hide about their own conduct in relation to the disappearance of their daughter to just keep on publically telling lies and abusing the man who is just telling the truth!

viv said...

Goncalo then says this, I can only say in defence of British Police they have to be extremely careful when investigating sexual abuse of living children. There are some incredibly strict procedures.

But, if Madeleine did not die in the circumstances that he believed happened and it was more a case of her being sexually abused and then trafficked off, he was clearly prevented from being able to investigate that! I do not believe that British Police would attempt to cover this up and still believe if that is the case, those offenders will be brought to justice by British Police or for the murder of Madeleine, as and when they have sufficient evidence.

It will only be after my removal from the investigation, in October 2007, that this statement will finally be sent to the Portuguese police. Why did the British keep it secret for more than six months? It is all the more surprising that David Payne, who had planned the trip to Majorca - of whom it was known that his behaviour towards the children was, to say the least, questionable -, is the same person who organised the holiday in Portugal, that he is one of those closest to Madeleine and that he is the first friend of the family to have been seen with Kate McCann just after the disappearance (we will talk further about this). He was still present in Vila da Luz when the English police received that witness statement: why wasn't he interviewed immediately? Without doubt, the Portuguese police could have made progress with the investigation thanks to that lead: such behaviour would merit close attention. Were we looking in the right direction? Might we have established a link with the events of May 3rd? It is difficult to seriously doubt these witnesses.

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

One thing you wrote shocked me (well actually many things did but have to get one daughter to a rehersal and the other is having her legs waxed for the first possibly last time in her life)....

She gave them Calpol frequently??? paracetomal builds up in your body and can be fatal if you have too much of it for a child although taking a lower dose it clearly states if your child is not better after a day or so go to a dr one to make sure it is nothing worse than you think and two so you dont overdose the child....

My children would be calmer after having calpol as they felt less pain and feaver but I cant rember it ever knocking them out for the night....

Maybe Kate was using some other kind of drug to keep the kids quiet and when asked how she had managed to get normaly hyper children asleep by her Mother she lied and said she had given calpol which if far less sinicster as you can buy it over the counter....

What amazes me is with all these revelations she is still allowed to care for the twins.... Did you see that vile picture of a baby with a cigarette in its mouth????

I thought it was bloody awful but the cigarette was not lit the baby could well have picked it up and the idiot mother or a friend thought it looked funny and took a picture then put it on face book.... It was vile it was wrong and for a baby to be able to reach cigarettes is bloody stupid as eating one could kill the child....

She had a visit from the police social services the works and quite right too she needed to be made aware of what a stupid thing she had allowed to happen and hopefully was given a lesson in putting bleach alcohol and boiling kettles out of harms way,,,,

the press have made the Mother a monster when at worst she was a stupid thick prat who needs some life lessons that a child is not a toy to do as they please and the thought of a baby smoking a cigarette is aborhant to any normal thinking person....

Actually I see plenty of Mothers smoking over their prams or sat next to their child so lots of people need a kick up the arse to grow up and stop being so selfish and stupid around their children....

Sorry I digress...

So we have this mother all over the press as an evil bitch and we have Kate McCann who admited she drugged her children to help them sleep (well her mother admited she did) goes off on holiday and leaves her children home alone while she goes to a bar finds her child missing and then refuses to help the investigation in any way....

And the press praise her???

What a sick world we live in I hope any celebs that turn up at that bash have a bloody good think about what they are supporting because it isnt Madeleine it is her parents because if they are there they are saying all the McCann's have done is ok by us and we would do the same...

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

Thank you for some interesting posts on this thread.

A number of things seemed to jump off the page at me: - “Neither she and her husband accepts anyone doubting their words.” Comment by a Portuguese police investigator early on in the case. Narcissistic?

Amaral’s family dog killed in mysterious circumstances. Reminds me of Glen Close’s actions in Fatal Attraction – i.e. boiling up the family pet rabbit as the man in the family was not doing what she wanted.

Amaral tells us (regarding bury his dog) “the soil is too hard to dig”. However the damp sand in the caves that litter the immediate coastline of pdl are very soft and easy to dig. Kate subsequently dreams of M on or above the caves down at the beach.

KM gives the pj a towel she alleges she used to dry Madeleine with. Hmm were the original dogs really following the scent of M or the twins?

Smith’s sight a man carrying a child who appears asleep with her arm hanging at her side. Someone recently dead looks very much like someone sleeping.

Not only did Kate’s mother agree Calpol was given to the children to aid sleep – she also said, on camera, Valium was given to Madeleine!

Wizard said...

Morning Hope,

You say: - “Maybe Kate was using some other kind of drug to keep the kids quiet and when asked how she had managed to get normally hyper children asleep by her Mother she lied and said she had given Calpol which if far less sinister as you can buy it over the counter....”

Well quite, remember Kate’s mum said on camera, Madeleine was given Valium. One does wonder what else if that did not do the trick!

hope4truth said...

Hi Wiz

I did not see her talk about the Valium that is really shocking....

I know some children with ADHD are prescribed drugs that help them stay calm and I always think if my children were like that I would never use them.... then my children are not like that and if they were hurting themselves always in trouble and not happy maybe I would not be so arogant and would try them out,,,,

But to give a child Valium because they wont sleep (espcialy as the nannies and others have said she was a shy quiet child) seems very wrong to me...

Kate talks about Madeleine as if she were the brain of britain and at 3 years old helping Kate buy clothes etc that is amazing yet I find it hard to believe she ever spent much time with her mother as on that holiday every minute was spent in the creche and when it came to party time for the adults they were left alone....

I still cant work out why the Press are allowed to deamanise a young mother for having a picture of her baby with a cigarette in its mouth and probebly ruin her life with the shame and finger pointing yet hold Kate McCann up as the ideal mother someone somewhere is stopping real reporting from taking place....

Or maybe a chav can be thrown to the wolves but a pretty Dr can do what the hell she likes with her children and be held as a saint...

Wizard said...


The press can throw a chav to the dogs but Kate’s parenting skills are applauded as apparently everyone leaves their kids alone to go out of the razz.

I didn’t see the picture you mentioned but no doubt the lady in question doesn’t have Carter Ruck at her beck and call - unlike the saintly Kate.

hope4truth said...

hi Wiz

that is the problem her child is safe and well and although a revoliting image and something that should never have happend if I were in her shoes I would never want to go out again,,,

I am starting to wonder why the press and the authorities hate Madeleine so much why does she not deserve the same attention of a baby who was never missing and in no real danger???

The Mother who left her children while she went out drinking all night has been given a second chance after breaking her curfew she will go to jail if she does so again. Not sure if her children are still with her or been taken away but no matter how distressed they were they were all alive and in the house when the authorities arrived...

Madeleine was distressed the night before she went missing both acording to Mrs Fenn and Kate McCann...

so we have a distressed child left alone night after night with her younger siblings and one night when they check she has gone missing,,,

Anyone who says they were wrong is told to shut up first by a bunch of bullying nutters and anyone who went futher and when the McCann's had a shed load of money from the fund set up to search for their child lawyers set about everyone who dared to question...

So is neglect ok if you are a DR and your child is missing and if you are a low life Mother who sounds to me like she is an alcoholic and needs help all your children can be present after you have seriously neglect them and you get a criminal record.///

Again why does the world hate madeleine???

Wizard said...

Yes I agree with you hope.

You mention:
“Madeleine was distressed the night before she went missing both according to Mrs Fenn and Kate McCann...”

Mrs Fenn heard M crying for an hour and a half on the night of 1st May, Kate allegedly is chastised by Madeleine on the morning of 3rd of May when she told her parents she had been crying the night before - 2nd May.

So Madeleine was crying for two nights prior to her disappearance. If we speculate and say she was given Calpol or Valium to keep her quite it clearly didn’t work. It makes me wonder what the parents might have administered to keep her quiet on the 3rd May.

Wizard said...

If my speculation above is true whatever was administered on the night of 3 May certainly worked as not a peep has been heard from Madeleine since. Third time lucky or should that be unlucky?

Di said...

Hi all

Whatever was administered to all three children, it frightened Kate to the point she kept having to check the twins were still breathing, yet she refused to have the twins checked over at the hospital. What was Kate so worried the hospital would find?

viv said...

hiya all

Wiz, Goncalo is such a clever man there is no doubt about that. He makes some very subtle comments.

Re the dog, the soil is very hard to dig and the dog felt heavy for him to carry.

It seems to me he is clearly implying a dead body is harder to carry and they could not have dug to hide the body.

viv said...

I think it is important to remember it is Gerry's mother who says Kate regularly administered sedatives. If I have read that right anyway!

viv said...

somewhere is stopping real reporting from taking place

Hope, I think that is British Police whilst they continue to build a case.

The press want to carry on writing on the McCanns story however, so that leaves them with slating Goncalo Amaral, it is not nice but that is what they are doing IMO. Money talks, the McCanns sell papers. It is just like it was with Princess Di, any old Di story will do, slate her praise her, who cares, it sells!

viv said...

In fact the Daily Express were so utterly cynical in doing this, I distinctly recall they had set days about.

ONe day slate the McCanns, next day slate the Portuguese Police.

hope4truth said...


Sedation makes sense the body builds up imunity to any drug given over and over so maybe the doses had to get higher to make her sleep... A dangerous game to play as an adult but to administer un prescribed drugs to a child is very wrong....

if this is what happend and although she kept checking the twins were breathing but did not rush them to a hospital to be safe the pair of them should be struck off as Drs and jailed for the wicked treatment of their children...

But no they say she was taken and have made a fortune selling her to the highest bidder and taking well wishers cash to pay for their defence (even though they have never been charged) and of course paying all those directors of the fund who are doing such a rubbish job of hiring decent detectives...

Wizard said...

This is an interesting piece of information from the CEOP note they distance themselves from their speakers views by saying. “The fact that we invite a speaker does not mean that we endorse their views.”

However, they go onto say Madeleine was “presumed to have been abducted” presumed by who the prime suspects!

GM has more front than Brighton to speak at this conference. He really does like the limelight.

Gerry McCann to speak at CEOP conference this week CEOP
23 January 2010

Gerry McCann will speak at a one day conference, organised by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP), on Tuesday 26 January 2010, in London.

The conference is entitled: 'Taken: Sexually-motivated child abductions' and Gerry McCann will deliver the closing speech at 16:00, prior to a question and answer session for all speakers.

Full details can be viewed by clicking the image opposite.

An email response from CEOP

The following email was received in response to a query asking why Gerry McCann had been invited to speak at the conference:

RE: Taken conference
Tuesday, 19 January, 2010 11:45:18From: CEOP Training Add



Dear Mr xxxx

Thank you for your interest in the work of CEOP and your comments. We hope that the fact that you disagree with our choice of speaker at one of our conferences will not affect your interest in our work once you have read this message.

Wizard said...


The courses and conferences which we run are mainly for the benefit of those working in law enforcement and public protection and, as a result, we invite a variety of speakers who have relevant knowledge or experience of the conference topic. The fact that we invite a speaker does not mean that we endorse their views. Our conferences allow people to exchange and challenge views. The current position regarding the McCanns is that they are the parents of a missing child who is presumed to have been abducted: that being the case anything that Gerry McCann has to say will be of interest to those who work in this area and will attend the conference.

I hope this clarifies our position in relation to Gerry McCann's presence at the conference.

CEOP Training

hope4truth said...

bang on Wiz

the only people to run with the abduction story are the parents of the missing child...

so the CEOP are allowing a suspect and a negligent father speak which means they are saying child neglect is ok and if you can afford to sue people it is ok to lie and say you have been cleared and remain as unhelpful as you like when questioned by the police....

It is a travisty and children of this country are not safe with the idiots who are supposed to protect them or find them when their parents cant be bothered...

viv said...

Hiya both, I have commented on that on Missing Madeleine. I do think CEOP would have to avoid saying anything at all that would suggest they suspect the McCanns.

Given the PJ are not dealing with it and Brit cops are, that rather suggest they think this erm abductor is a Brit, and I think I know who he is. Just not sure whether Maddie was dead or alive when he was carting her off, but either way that makes him guilty of an incredibly serious offence.

Things are not going very well for the McCanns lately, let us wait and see how a
Angry Gerry (as many of our press have been pointing out) copes with this!


viv said...


As you will see, you are not the only ones that resent CEOP using that A word, just chill I say:-))

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

who runs the missing Madeleine Forum???

It will be intresting if Gerry is asked the wrong question at the CEOP wont it....

viv said...

Hiya Hope, her nic is Ambersuz, although I know her real name I would not repeat it in case it caused her harm. She is lovely!

Hope that is what I would really like to see, go on Gerry, really lose it, we know you can !

But I suppose these professionals will just gape in awe at this spectacle before them, prior to going off and thoroughly discussing him!

As we speak I am sure Gerry is practising all of his lines :-)))

It really is going to take some explaining though!

Will he tell them about how what he did was "well within the bounds of responsible parenting" or refer to "the situation Madeleine finds herself in". I suspect he will have a new crop of crass remarks to make !

viv said...

People can say what they like about Gordon Brown but would I really want him replaced by David Cameron, who has sought to score some political points off the new Venables and Thompson, ignoring the agony those boys' parents must feel? Duped coppers into standing behind him?

No way!

viv said...

Broken Britain and it is all labour's fault these things happen, nothing at all to do with parents from hell, Gordon should have fixed it!
David Cameron sparks fury by using the Doncaster child torture case for "point-scoring"


By James Lyons 23/01/2010
David Cameron (Pic:BBC)

David Cameron sparked fury yesterday by using the Doncaster child torture case for "point-scoring".

Mr Cameron spoke of the "truly awful" attack at the launch of his families election manifesto - and said it proved he was right to claim Britain is broken.

Mr Cameron told an audience: "It is right to ask ourselves deep questions about what is going wrong.

"I don't think it is right every time one of these events takes place to say it's some isolated incident of evil we should forget."

But Liam Byrne, Labour's Chief Treasury Secretary, said: "Mr Cameron is seizing upon one appalling crime and almost tarring the people of Doncaster and the people of Britain." The minister admitted many people did feel their community "needs reinforcing".

Advertisement - article continues below »

But new laws had been brought in and Mr Byrne added: "The irony is Mr Cameron voted against half of those."

The Tory chief also faced claims he had dragged police into politics by having two officers on stage in Gillingham, Kent.

The county's assistant chief constable Gary Beautridge was one but his force said it did not know the event was political.

A spokesman said: "We were invited by a councillor who has a role in community safety."

Minister and local MP Jonathan Shaw said: "To trick officers into standing behind him is out of order."

viv said...

Hope, I do not know whether you have read details of this case, but please be warned, it is very distressing xx

Joe said...

To my mind if the CEOP suspect McCann then they should not have asked him to speak. It must be a very naive outfit to ask a man who was never formally cleared( or charged to be fair) of involvement in the disappearance of his daughter, and the case not even closed officially. It is a very risky policy in case things went belly up in the future. Such an organization would be ruined.

As it is McCann will give his musings. Quite the speaker and his weedy voice, not. In essence McCann agreeing to do the talk, suggests to me that it further promotes his abduction scenario and effectively backed ( not officially) by the CEOP, at least that is the way much of the public would see it. It certainly does not promote any faith for my part in the CEOP.

viv said...

Hiya Joe, it is a risky strategy and I can understand people being offended by it. But it has been police policy for a long time to put people like Gerry on the spot in this way. As they say, they are not endorsing his views.

There are just two alternatives really

a) they think he is innocent
b) they have asked him to speak with a view to giving all the assembled experts the opportunity to gain a first hand view of him so that they can then decide how best to proceed and gain further evidence. His speech itself and the answers to questions may be evidence in itself. How else could they have done that? I do not believe for one moment it is a!! Psychology has big part to play in modern policing.

Joe said...

I agree Viv that Cameron is so wrong for the UK. Brown too needs to be replaced IMO and two thirds of the government with new and more honest people ( not a politicians forte alas). Scoring points of this heinous crime is low and disgusting. It is too broad to suggest that it is down to a ruling Government that such crimes thrive. There are a mulitidude of influences, pornography, family circumstances, violent video games,
or pure evil or whatever. In the next election the voters have Hobson's choice 2 parties both sleazy, corrupt and expense fiddlers. What a choice, just like the lot we have in power here.

hope4truth said...

hi Viv

I have read all the details and feel very very sorry for the two boys who were abused by these child thugs...

I a very pleased they have been sent away but am distressed that people have written them off and are screaming they should never be allowed out...

Yes some people are born evil but most are made evil and with love support and counceling maybe one day these two boys can do something to pay the world back for their evil crime....

They stood no chance as once again social services thought more of the parents rights than the rights of the child,,,,

the law needs to be changed if it can be proved that parents abusive and neglectful attitude towards their child causes their child to break the law then whatever sentance the child recieves the parent should get the same...

It is a hard thing to impliment but if there is evidence that my child is shoplifting and I am mouthing off it is funny and we have some great free stuff and she should do it more often then how is the child going to know it is wrong....

whilst my sympathy lays firmly with the poor victims of this crime I still think the criminals should have been given a chance to a life where they knew how wicked and evil their crime was...

viv said...

Ah Joe, how many people want to be politicians for the best of reasons? Twenty or thirty years ago Gordon Brown seemed to be a far more idealised person with pretty left wing views but he has certainly changed.

But I clearly remember Margaret Thatcher being our leader and sometimes I think it just the lesser of two evils and there is so much that is evil in politics.

I think one of the major problems now with Brown is he is a weak and ineffective leader who also lacks the charisma needed for that particular job. Maybe a new tory government would not look like such an inevitable proposition if the leadership had been changed in the labour party, if a man or woman had been elected in, because he or she was just the right person for the job?

I think the fickle British public will react to the recession and other woes and it is true, we are the last relatively wealthy nation to come out of it.

But then I really dread to think of what we have in store next and do I think Cameron has any insight or capacity to change the sort of thuggish parents that exist in UK or the issues that cause that? Not a chance!

viv said...

Hiya Hope

You demonstrate the humanitarian and caring attitude that I have come to expect from you and it is refreshing to read.

You can quickly see those boys were brought up in a very similar atmosphere of abuse and neglect to Venables and Thompson. So, at 12 years, can we really label them as monsters or should we look more closely at who failed to nurture them and teach them right from wrong?

There has been a hands off approach with abusive parents for a long time now and severe underfunding of social workers and qualified youth offending team workers who should be intervening at a very early stage in such troubled lives to try and prevent them from turning into monsters.

There is no political solution to this other than the powers that be allocating more resources. But they do what they see will score political points, proclaim it is wrong, put a new law on the statute book, that does not make any difference!

I think from a pretty early age we should be teaching children in school about one of the most important jobs they will ever have to do, nurture children. Instil in them just how important it is and just how much damage they can do if they do not try their very best to raise their children properly.

I also think there needs to be far more intervention into troubled families and if the parents do not like that, then tough, children should always be put first and they have no choice but to live in that home. Therefore it is their right to a decent homelife we should be respecting.

I think Kate and Gerry's right have been put way ahead of the twins and I do not know how damaged they will grow up, other than they obviously will. Who took the decision to inflict that upon them? And how can they live with themselves?

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

I know many children from so called profesional families are abused and brought up in an uncaring way and I am not sure how to deal with the parents of these children heavy fines maybe 20% of their salary however...

Many children who are allowed to roam the streets all day causing trouble hurting people and waving two fingers at the police laughing they are too young for them to do anything to... Come from sink estates with parents not working and on benefits....

take those benefits away from these parents when their kids get into trouble pay their rent send them a food parcel but no money for fags cable tv or booze and they would soon be moaning about their civil rights...

If their kids (and some adults) take away the civil rights of other people by causing trouble they must learn that theirs dont count....

Instead of being heros they will be a laughing stock and they should be made to attend parenting classes and taught respect it is missing in todays society...

Give them their benefits back when they prove they can show their child love and keep them under control...

maybe if they learn respect they wont need the benefits as they will want to get a job (and I know some of them wont be able to as there are not many about in certain areas)....

Children deserve a chance someone I work with has a 7 year old son who was the brat from hell I would do all I could to avoid him if he came into the office she is so weak with him and would say dont do that and then when he did it anyway ignore it his dad was no better when he stayed with him.... He was suspended from school 3 times and nearly kicked out but that to her was the teachers fault... She met a new guy when he was 6 and within 6 months he was a changed child the new guy wont put up with any nonsense and the little boy knows his limits.... the new guy is not nasty and when he is good gives him so much praise and attention.... What a diffrence not everyone is born to be a parent some people need to be shown how....

viv said...

Hiya Hope

Maybe someone should have got Karen Matthews off the booze fags and internet and back to doing what she needed to be doing.

It is weird but some people do need a heavy hand.. so maybe your proposals are right. Earn your benefits by looking after your kids a bit better!

The story you relate sounds like the parents you see on that nanny programme. It is just amazing they actually need her to go in there and say well actually you cannot just allow your three year old to just throw their dinner everywhere!

viv said...

I am just pretty speechless that they are now recycling this incredible rubbish yet again, of course the focus must now be on Portugal because it is Portugal where they say they have been "damaged" by Goncalo! Edgar went back at the beginning of last week, what, on the same plane as Kate and Gerry then??



24th January 2010 By Jonathan CorkeMISSING Madeleine McCann could be still alive and just a few miles from the Portuguese resort where she vanished in 2007, investigators believe.

Former detective inspector Dave Edgar, who is leading the hunt, made a secret visit to Praia da Luz at the beginning of last week.

On his return, he said it was a “very distinct possibility” that Maddie could be living in a poor country district inland from the holiday area.

A source told the Daily Star Sunday: “The areas that Dave’s team have focused on are very rural. There are no tourists around there at all. He believes Madeleine could be held in such an area.”

Wednesday will mark 1,000 days since the youngster’s disappearance during a holiday with her doctor parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

Mr Edgar is convinced she was kidnapped and his team are still receiving a “substantial number” of calls and e-mails containing new information.

While previous inquiries have led officers as far afield as Argentina and Australia, the focus is now firmly back in Portugal. The source went on: “They believe the answer lies in Praia da Luz. New information continues to come in.”

Links between the case and at least five sex attacks on British children near Praia da Luz have been ruled out.

Many known paedophiles in the area have also been discounted.

But investigators would still like to speak to convicted Brit sex offender Raymond Hewlett, 64, who was

staying near Praia da Luz at the time of the disappearance.

And we can reveal that some British holidaymakers who were also staying at the Mark Warner Ocean Club have not co-operated with the investigation.

Our source said: “There are a small number of individuals who, for their own reasons, have refused to speak.”

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for Kate and Gerry, said the probe would continue until Madeleine is found. The family hope that a star-studded fund-raising dinner on Wednesday will help boost diminishing funds.

Sir Richard Branson, JK Rowling and presenter Nicky Campbell are backing the event, at London’s Kensington Roof Gardens. And 1,000 lanterns will be released into the sky from 20 venues across Britain and Portugal.

Mr Mitchell said: “It’s a painful date for Kate and Gerry. But they remain as determined as ever.”

viv said...

The Daily Express's sister even lower quality rag just has to be taking the Michael, shall we call these unco-operative holidaymakers The Tapas Nine and their "pact of silence" ?

Words fail that they can keep this crap up!

And we can reveal that some British holidaymakers who were also staying at the Mark Warner Ocean Club have not co-operated with the investigation.

Our source said: “There are a small number of individuals who, for their own reasons, have refused to speak.”

viv said...

Erm, hang on what does "backing" mean, are they not going? I am not saying a flipping word about 1000 lanterns other than I need my sick bucket again.

Sir Richard Branson, JK Rowling and presenter Nicky Campbell are backing the event,

viv said...

What is painful about a date? Is not every day rather painful?

hope4truth said...

For gods sake what is wrong with these idiots...

Either madeleine was given away or sold to a new family now things are looking bad for them they have to bring her back so will find her alive and well in a lawless town a few miles from PDL...

She is dead and the body will turn up in a lawless town a few miles from PDL....

Or she is actually being held in a lawless town a few miles from PDL and they have once again told the person who has her they are on to him and on their way where he will no doubt if he has not done so already Murder madeleine and do a runner...

Anyone giving a penny to these bloody idiots after all this time reading the crazy explanations that turn black into white are not helping Madeleine they are making it worse for her and are only helping her parents prove they did not kill her....

My child goes missing screw me I am not important as long as people are searching for my child and not making stupid statements putting her at even greater risk than I did already by neglecting her that is fine...

9 days after she was taken to this hell hole Kate and Gerry were beside themselves with joy so I guess a 1000 days surounded by people who want to kiss their arse they will be totaly delighted....

Or we will see many pictures of a distressed Kate and sad looking Gerry if they listen to their image makers that is....

If she was missing no one would need to tell them how to act it is too bloody late now looking back on those first few months the only time they looked remotely upset was when they were made arguidos and it looked like they might be found out....

hope4truth said...

I say take every person who refused to help the investigation to a police station in seprate interview rooms and dont let them leave until they have told you all they know....

There are 9 adults I could name that did not help and the answers they gave changed every time they were asked them... One of them I think her name is Kate refused to answer a single question now to me that look suspicious...

As for any others lock them up with the T9 and let them rot for a few weeks until they can be bothered to talk....

I know this is about Kate and Gerry and we have to help them but a 3 year old child went missing after being neglected every night does anyone think maybe she deserves a voice???

Wizard said...

I strongly believe no one is born evil but circumstances, genetics or psychological faults, brought about by conditioning, can make someone’s behaviour appear evil.

It must have been a nightmare for the victims of the two brothers and my sympathies go out to them, equally the two boys for public safety must be contained in a safe environment.

I strongly suspect if the boys were reared in a loving and caring family and taught from babies the difference between right and wrong they would not be headlining in all national newspapers today.

It will take years for the behavioural pattern of these kids to be modified and to become acceptable. Alas it is questionable they will receive the help they need to achieve this. A lot of so called ‘professionals’ employed to help kids like this are not always qualified to do so in an extreme cases. Still we can but hope.

Should these kids be locked up for life, well no, if the appropriate help is available and as they are only young, there is no reason to suppose their behaviour cannot be changed.

A tragic situation for all concerned.

The parents of these kids should be brought to book as their neglect and poor example have turned their children into monsters.

hope4truth said...

If you own a dangerous dog and it attacks or kills someone you face a jail sentence...

If you want a dog from a rescue home or good breeder your home is visited you are assesed and if you meet their requirements you can have the dog...

yet bring your children up to be violent and nothing...

Anyone can have a child with no checks at all and whilst it would be a terrible thing to allow social services to remove children at birth from people if there are any concerns educate the Mothers and Fathers to become decent loving parents it is all any child needs...

Wizard said...

Well said Hope!

viv said...

Hiya both

Wiz, I tend to agree with you on that, childrens personalities are shaped by the conditioning they receive as a child, genetics do not seem to play such a major role but I know opinion on this is divided.

But these two lads surely prove the point.

Hope, I also agree that when people become parents, they take on responsibilities and your analogy with being a dog owner is a good one. In every conceivable way we can be held responsible for the consequences of our actions, but not, it would seem, when we condition monsters instead of children. Parental attitudes need to be changed!

I also agree that it rather looks like the McScams latest plan is to either spring Maddie from wherever they have hidden her or find her body and blame Hewlett.

How incredibly cynical for Edgar to pop back to PDL at the same time as them last week.

They must be getting desperate to have these allegations lifted from them and realise the Portuguese Police, the British Police are just not listening to them, and the action against Goncalo was a waste of time. Even if he does get told to stop saying such things, they will not get the million quid they have been telling everyone they are going to get and that is going to make them look very silly!

Leicester Police sent them a chilling warning and it is rattling their cages.

hope4truth said...

Morning Viv

It would be truly wonderful if they have hidden her away somewhere and she is returned safe and well....

God forbid they gave her to someone who treated her as anything less than a precious child whatever happend if she was given away lets pray it was to a loving family....

If she is dead and a body is produced that will be tragic but if they are responsible for a death then they will have to go careful who they accuse obviously they need a fall guy but if they think the police are so stupid they will have not checked out the people along the way who they are setting up they are delusional....

If she is alive I worry about her eye because if it is not as bad as the photos indicate somethin will be done to it and although Gerry said early on if someone did soemthing to her eye or someone killed it was a good marketing op....

If she is found I hope our social services department care as much for her as they did for Shannon and dont hand her back straight away and help her remeber... although sadly if she is somewhere they know about no doubt the conditioning is already in place poor child...

Joe said...

I don't think that she will be found alive or dead. If she were found then the whole thing would start up again for them, and all those awkward questions.

If the poor child was found alive, and if they were involved all those questions would have to be answered, and why they and the Tapas 7 were so obstructive to the Police, if it was a case of kidnap by an unknown party. Their collective actions did/do not marry up with such a scenario IMO.

If the child's remains were found, their actions come into question and who was responsible? Then there would be a body and no longer a hypothesis that she is dead or alive. Charges of some sort would surely follow. So overall I think that things will stay the same as either of the above would get the Police in the UK and PT back on the case, the end of the fund and all that posturing.

viv said...

Hiya both!

Joe what you say makes a lot of sense, if they find Madeleine in Portugal that would most certainly get both the Portuguese and British Police in a high state of activity.

But I would like to stress that even if Madeleine was found alive, she did not disappear due to the acts of any strangers to the McCanns. Their involvement in this crime is beyond any doubt whatsoever. She is a Ward of the British Court and would most certainly not be returned to the McCanns.

Have you seen the new video from Clarence? They are obviously very worried given he is back spinning for them. I thought it was amusing the way he says the Pt file was finally released after a lot of pressure from (and he hesitates looking for the right word)..this end! This would seem to directly contradict Gerry McCann in that he has frequently bemoaned the releasing of information into the public domain.

He also directly contradicts the recent comment of Gerry when clearly very angry and upset, "we have no leads". Clarence has fixed that, he says there are hundreds!!! and our investigators pop back to Portugal from time to time, they have just been back recently. Yes, we know Clarence, at the same time the Mccanns popped back to continue their offensive against Goncalo Amaral.

I also got a hint from what Mitchell is saying they are not so confident now of banning this book completely, what do you think?

I tend to think the book was not really libellous, it was a factual account from Goncalo of the investigation and the conduct of the McCanns throughout, that really given the open justice in Portugal people have a right to know. But where I do think he has gone wrong is by categorically stating that Madeleine is dead when there is no clear evidence to confirm that is the case. It was a good working hypothesis and very worthy of investigation, but that does not translate it into a fact, no matter many people would like it to be, that I can never really understand. How could be do such a thing really? If that little girl has been got rid of by her parents trafficking her as the police clearly believed possible and is suffering terrible sexual abuse, do people not want her rescued from that?

I would like to see just a bit more concern for decency, compassion and real and genuine concern about Madeleine, rather than just ranging themselves behind various characters in this drama. I do not care about Kate and Gerry McCann and Goncalo is fine, I care about Madeleine!


viv said...


By Nigel Moore

Jenna Wolfe: And joining us now is Clarence Mitchell, spokesperson for Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann. Clarence, good morning, thanks for being with us today.

Clarence Mitchell: Good morning, Jenna, good to be with you.

JW: So, as we mentioned, this does mark... this week will mark the 1,000 date anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. Can you tell us how her parents are holding up?

CM: Kate and Gerry have good and bad days, as you would well expect given that their daughter is still not home, as you say, nearly a thousand days on. They draw greatest strength from when they sense there is momentum in the search, and in the wider campaign to keep awareness of Madeleine high in the public eye, and so, on Wednesday, to mark a thousand days exactly they're going to be holding a fund raising event in London and they'll be surrounded by their long term friends and supporters, so they will draw great strength from that. But it is very difficult and they do find any, errr... anniversary or occasion like this to be very difficult.

JW: We understand that Gerry and Kate have also hired their own, errr... private investigator. Can you tell us a little bit about how that investigation is going? Has it led to any leads?

CM: There are lots of leads, whether they're the significant one that will lead to Madeleine is the question, and no... have we found her yet? No we haven't. Errr... It's a very small team currently looking into Madeleine's disappearance, led by some former British detectives now acting as private investigators. They're doing a very thorough job of going back over all the evidence, all the Portuguese police files that were finally released after a lot of pressure from... from this end and, errr... they feel that there is useful information still out there to be had; we still need people to come forward. If people go to the findmadeleine.com website all of the contact emails and phone numbers for anyone who thinks they may have seen her, or has any information about her, should... should look at that website. That information will go straight to our investigators and they are following it up on a daily basis. They go back to Portugal, from time to time; they were back there recently. The work is very much ongoing, although Madeleine isn't quite in the headlines as much as she was, the search is very much continuing and there are hundreds of calls that are still being checked out.

viv said...

JW: Well, I understand that Gerry and... and Kate are attempting to block the sale... one of the new pieces of information out... are intending to block the sale of a book released by a Portuguese policeman who says that Madeleine, errr... is dead and that the parents, errr.... her parents are suspects. Can you tell us where we are in that civil case, right now? As if they need something else to continue to worry about.

CM: Well, absolutely, that's the last thing they need. This is a book written by a former police officer who was removed from the case after he criticised British police, errr... in the inquiry, errr... some two years ago. Errr... He's written a book in which he makes those allegations, as you say, he claims that he believes Madeleine is dead and that Kate and Gerry know what happened. It is totally untrue. Nor has he any evidence to make those wild, libellous allegations and that's why Kate and Gerry have gained an injunction to stop his book from being published anymore. He currently is appealing against that and we're expecting a ruling from a judge in February... mid February. Kate and Gerry obviously remain very hopeful that the judge will do the right thing and ban the book completely. We don't like to take that sort of legal action but the allegations this man is making will make people believe that Madeleine is dead and therefore they won't look for her and that will damage the search.

JW: Alright, Clarence Mitchell, we thank you so much for your time. Our thoughts continue to be with the McCanns in their search. Thank you.

viv said...

"It was felt that a truly international firm was now needed to lead the inquiry. These really are the big boys. *August 2008 as the McCanns were released from Arguido status by Portugal, see this blog Aug 08 for full reports including it was actually half a million he had not £300,000, apparently)

Ummm Mr Halligen and Mr Halligen and Mr Halligen (*an Irish conman whose only links to US really was the one million pound house he bought there with all the money he conned)so an Irish conman then just like Gerry McCann turned out to be these big boys, this truly International firm and he looked quite small when he was arrested by Brit cops for serious fraud and whisked off to the US to face the music. Your turn next Gerry and no burying bad news eh! And how seriously you take the search for little Maddie, you rat!!

"Madeleine McCann's parents hire US private investigators
Madeleine McCann's parents have hired a US private investigator firm made up of former CIA and FBI agents and special forces veterans as part of a renewed push to find their missing daughter, it was reported.

By Aislinn Simpson Last Updated: 8:47AM BST 13 Aug 2008
The team are said to be taking over primary responsibility for the investigating into Madeleine's disappearance, although the Spanish firm Metodo 3, which has until now spearheaded the search, will continue to follow up information from Spain and Portugal.
The news comes shortly after Portuguese police shelved the case and released a 30,000 page dossier detailing their investigation.
The dossier has revealed thousands of potential sightings of the three-year-old following her disappearance from the family's rented holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve on May 3 last year.
The US firm, which has not been named, is said to have been offered a £500,000 six-month contract by the Find Madeleine Fund, which has received donations from several wealthy benefactors and wellwishers around the world.
However, according to previous reports, there is only £500,000 left in the fighting fund.
A friend of Kate and Gerry McCann said of the hiring: "It was felt that a truly international firm was now needed to lead the inquiry. These really are the big boys."

Joe said...

Poor Pinky will have to keep peddling the lies for fear of it going belly up and all his spin would unwind and his reputation would be in tatters. Sad little man has run out of script now and just repeats the same tired old lies. Its all in the official files Pinky and you cannot dispute that.

Haligen and Co as the big boys. They were that alright and the fund was taken for a ride. Its all like a black comedy.

viv said...

Hiya Joe

I think both sides in this unseemly fight between Kate and Gerry and Goncalo Amaral lost their scripts.

So we have to listen to Clarence Mitchell and the idiotic ramblings of Tony Bennett over and over again and I am sick of hearing it. Now I am not sure who is the worst, but one thing I am sure about, they have nothing to do with Justice for Madeleine.

The sooner British Police just step in arrest these two, just like they arrested Halligen, the better, and they will!


viv said...

This is what the Home Office have to say to intermeddling bloggers, who send a barrage of Freedom of Information Act requests and pontificate about the law that they plainly do not understand written by Barmy Bennett. When are they going to sit up and listen! How dare they just insist Madeleine is dead so they know better!! Did you ever, ever, stop to think that Madeleine and other children lives and safety could be at risk. How dare you demand an apology from me.

Harm and prejudice

The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is still ongoing. There are significant unknowns in relation to her disappearance. Leicestershire Constabulary are the lead force in the UK dealing with this investigation but the principle investigation agency is Policia Judiciara (PJ) in Portugal.

We believe that significant harm to the investigation could result from either confirming or denying that we hold the information you have asked for.

Should this investigation lead to a prosecution, saying whether or not this information is or is not held by the Home Office would risk undermining the human rights of any suspect to a fair trial and the rights of a victim, particularly if the prosecution would fail due to such an announcement.

If the Home Office was to either confirm or deny that it did or did not hold any information that was gathered in the course of this investigation, it might risk compromising the conduct of this investigation.

This could ultimately prejudice the administration of justice. In any event, to confirm or deny that any such information that was or was not obtained in the course of a criminal investigation, either voluntarily or through compulsory powers, ought not to be generally disclosed, save as far as it is necessary for the purposes of establishing or defending rights in litigation.

There is consequently a strong public interest in ensuring that evidence is not contaminated for any future trial. In addition there is a strong public interest to preserve relations with the Policia Judiciara (PJ) in Portugal whilst Madeleine remains missing.

Two of the Home Office’s objectives are to support the efficient and effective delivery of justice, and to lead visible, responsive and accountable policing.

The manner in which the Home Office works to support the Police Service as a whole is one of our core business functions.

If the Home Office prejudiced such a high-profile and sensitive investigation by confirming or denying that we either do or do not hold any of the information that you have requested, we would be seen as working against the efforts of both UK and Portuguese policing authorities, undermining their determined efforts to locate Madeline McCann and her assailants. This would not be in the best interests of the public..

Any prejudicial effects to these ongoing investigations could jeopardise the health & safety, of Madeline McCann, in that it might significantly affect the chances of her being found.

There is no actual public interest served in releasing information that may jeopardise the health & safety of any individual.

There is a strong public interest in the UK maintaining the arrangements it currently enjoys with other States in matters of judicial and mutual legal cooperation in criminal and other matters.

Any act that would prejudice this investigation may discourage other States with complying with reasonable requests issued by the UK or from pursuing legitimate investigations in the UK for fear that the product of such requests or investigations may be disclosed to private citizens.

viv said...

Interesting just how many times the police subject guilty people to press conferences etc as a means towards making them crack. But of course, CEOP are just bent apparently and want to help Gerry get away with it. They tell us no British Agency is really taking any action against the McCanns. Hang on a minute isn't that what Kate and Gerry want us to believe? "Sides" become very blurred against money making scamsters or just those with their own agenda to pursue, for whatever reason.

There is only one side, little Madeleine and Justice for her and all abused children, not that they are the least bit concerned about that!

viv said...

Killers who cry crocodile tears
Posted by admin on Jun 25th, 2008 and filed under BBC News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

Page last updated at 15:46 GMT, Wednesday, 25 June 2008 16:46 UK

By Chris Summers, BBC News

The boss of a limousine firm has been convicted of ordering the murder of his wife, an off-duty special constable. Fadi Nasri, who made a televised appeal for information in the days after she was stabbed, is not the first killer to cry crocodile tears.

One night in December 1996 Lee Harvey was stabbed to death on an isolated road in Alvechurch, Worcestershire.

His fiancee, Tracie Andrews, told police he had been attacked by another motorist after a “road rage” incident.

I held her hand at the press conference when all my family were pointing the finger and at the end of the day she lied Maureen Harvey

She later appeared at a police press conference looking in a terrible state and begging for help in catching the killer.

The former model claimed a “fat man with staring eyes” had attacked her boyfriend, stabbing him more than 30 times.

But detectives became sceptical of her story and they discovered that the couple had a stormy and often violent relationship.

Andrews, who was 28 at the time, was later charged with murder and at her trial a jury was told she had stabbed him to death after a row.

Last year, Mr Harvey’s mother, Maureen, said she could never forgive Andrews, who is serving a life sentence for the murder.

Mrs Harvey said: “I held her hand at the press conference when all my family were pointing the finger and at the end of the day she lied.”

In January 1997, nine-year-old schoolgirl Zoe Evans went missing from her home in Warminster, Wiltshire.

Her mother, Paula Hamilton, and stepfather Miles Evans appeared at a press conference, begging for her to come home.

Miles Evans appealing for information to find missing Zoe

Unbeknown to Zoe’s mother, the man sitting next to her was actually responsible for killing her daughter.

Zoe’s naked body was later found in a badger sett and Evans was arrested and eventually convicted of her murder.

It transpired that Zoe had been taken her from her bed and sexually assaulted.

A post-mortem examination showed she died from asphyxiation.

Zoe’s mother later said Evans deserved the death penalty for what he had done.

In September 1994, Carol Wardell, the manager of a building society in Nuneaton, Warwickshire, was murdered and around £15,000 stolen from the branch.

Her husband, Gordon, appeared at a press conference and told reporters he had returned home from the pub on a Sunday afternoon to find his wife being held captive by a man who was wearing a clown mask and was armed with a knife.

Gordon Wardell claimed his wife’s killer wore a clown mask

Wardell claimed he had been punched and forced to the ground and fell unconscious after a chloroform-soaked cloth was pressed over his face.

viv said...

Wardell, his eyes hidden behind dark glasses, told journalists: “A man got hold of my wife and was threatening her with a knife.”

He claimed he had been tied up by the gang who took his wife off to the building society early the following morning.

But within a month police realised his story was a pack of lies and he was arrested.

Sentencing him to life imprisonment, the judge at Oxford Crown Court said Wardell had gone to elaborate lengths, including tying himself up and inflicting injuries, to make it appear as if the couple were the victim of robbers.

In August last year, Wardell, 54, was told he would not be eligible for release for another 18 years.

In May 1991, the boyfriend of Oxford University student Rachel McLean reported her missing and so began a drama more intriguing than any of Inspector Morse’s cases.

John Tanner, 22, who was studying classics at Nottingham University, not only appeared in a press conference appealing for help but also took part in a televised reconstruction.

He claimed Miss McLean had seen him off at Oxford railway station and said a long-haired stranger had offered to give her a lift home.

John Tanner even took part in a reconstruction with a policewoman

Tanner told reporters his girlfriend had been “a lover of life” and even asked people to help “out of sheer consideration for her mother and father and myself”.

But a few days later police discovered Rachel’s remains under the floorboards at her flat in Oxford and Tanner was immediately arrested.

His tall story crumbled around his ears and he was charged with her murder.

At his trial at Birmingham Crown Court, Tanner changed his story and said he snapped and killed her after she admitted she had been unfaithful.

But he was convicted of murder and jailed for life.

On Valentine’s Day in 2005, Joanna Nelson, who worked at a Jobcentre in Hull, vanished.

Paul Dyson soon appeared on television acting the concerned boyfriend.

Humberside Police launched a massive search but Miss Nelson’s body was not found until 24 March, near Malton, North Yorkshire.

You went on TV and displayed breathtaking and nauseating hypocrisy Judge Tom Cracknell

Under interrogation by detectives Dyson, 31, finally cracked and admitted he was responsible for her death and said he had strangled her after a trivial row about housework.

Sentencing him to life in prison, Judge Tom Cracknell, highlighted his callous appearance on the TV appeal for information in finding Miss Nelson.

The judge told him: “You went on TV and displayed breathtaking and nauseating hypocrisy.”

As he was led away to begin a life sentence Dyson was verbally abused by friends and family of his victim.

The phenomenon is not confined to Britain.

In October 1994, a young mother, Susan Smith, told police in South Carolina she had been carjacked by a man who had driven off with her two young sons still in the vehicle.

Smith appeared on television appealing for the man to return the children.

Susan Smith blamed a black carjacker

But nine days later she confessed to police to having driven the car into a lake, with the boys, three-year-old Michael and Alexander, 14 months, still inside.

It emerged that she had been having an affair with a man and had killed her boys because he had told her he did not want any children.

The case was seen as racially sensitive because Smith had claimed a black man had been responsible.

She was later convicted of murder but a jury spared her the death penalty and she was given a life sentence.

Assassin said...

I just love this site. Felicity the dispenser of all knowing all seeing legal advice. I bet when you are in those probation meetings you dream of being a hot shot lawyer haahhha. Bit of advice luv
1. Foreign nationals and those living abroad can make FIO Act requests. Doh!
2. Tony Bennett should not be blamed for everything.
3. I know you are not very bright but your tagging ont' the prosecurters view that maddy is 50/50 as to whether maddy is alive or dead. Do you think if he said anything other there would be uproar as to the fact that the case was shelved/mcanns charged.
4. Justice for maddy n then you go on about bloggers jeopordising the chances of maddy being found alive!
5. Your a nobody, big mouthed, wannabe and not welcome on my blog.

viv said...

Oh dear someone is getting very angry again on my David Payne thread. Pleased you are so concerned about my intelligence levels:-))

Now erm which blog is it you are referring to Psychopops that I am not welcome on? Ummm I am sure I could never guess what with me being so thick, lol, :

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Viv,
One thing you ain't Vile is clever.

Anonymous said...
Hello John me old mucka, sorry have not been in touch for ages, how's your campaign going?

Looks like Gerry finally did tell yous to put a sock in it, bit late huh?



31 January 2010 04:27

31 January 2010 19:33
Blogger Rosiepops said...

Anon 19.33

Viv is like a fart in a trance!

31 January 2010 20:12
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rosiepops said...
Anon 19.33

Viv is like a fart in a trance!

31 January 2010 20:12


Estra ????

31 January 2010 20:30

viv said...

Your perverted ramblings are not new to this blog, you think a dead child deserves justice but a living one who is being abused does not?

You have identified yourself for what you are and just like Tony Bennett your experience of the police causes you to despise them, doesn't it?

Come back here if you like but you are not fooling anyone.

viv said...

Erm tut, LA, your spelling does not improve, look up you are quite a feature on here. Did the lawyers let you down too love? "They" are all out to get you? Good!

Just keep away from the kids.

viv said...

RE: The chances of the McCanns winning the hearing. What do you think?
lea wrote:
Laffin Assasin wrote:
viv wrote:
It is not a proven fact that "the little girl is dead" or that the McCanns disposed of her body, so technically that is most certainly libel.

I can assure you I do know an awful lot of facts and evidence about the case and have spent more hours over the last two and half years researching them than I would care to admit!

I think the trouble is some people have difficult deciding what facts are and at the end of the day, it is for a court of law to decide having heard all the evidence, not you or I or Goncalo Amaral!

I'm prepared to stand in a witness box in a UK court and say that I'm of the opion that Maddy is dead and give my reasonoing for coming to that conclution.
I'll put my "house" and bank accountt on my train of though. Even my "life" if it gets to the "TRUTH".

i think its such a shame the dogs cant be used as evidence and the 15 out of 19 markers which would result in a prosecution in the uk and not in portugal is where the real truth lies,its such a shame for Amaral if he loses this case,after all his hard work and pressures he has endured through all of this.

Mr Amaral, if he loses, will not be the end of the WAR, it'll just be a minor spot, in a bigger battle.

GORDON IS A MORON, but he daren't change his "TACK" sailing close to the wind, is our GORDON. by Laffin Assasin
on Sun 17 Jan - 3:20

Search in: Amaral v McCanns Trial
Topic: RE: The chances of the McCanns winning the hearing. What do you think?
Replies: 51
Views: 1000RE: The chances of the McCanns winning the hearing. What do you think?
viv wrote:
The libel hearing is to follow on from that I understand, it is axiomatic that if Goncalo wins, there will be no libel hearing. But I think we need to bear in mind a court has already injuncted him pending that hearing, this is him appealing against that, so far as I understand it. Odd really that it turned out there was no plan for either him or the McCann to give evidence, particularly him!

Can you expand on that word I've high lighted in red, or are you just trying it on ?

due dilligence and responsibility apply now ?

Are you trying to "baffle folks with BULLSHIT" ?by Laffin Assasin
on Sun 17 Jan - 3:16

viv said...

Search in: Amaral v McCanns Trial
Topic: RE: The chances of the McCanns winning the hearing. What do you think?
Replies: 51
Views: 1000RE: The chances of the McCanns winning the hearing. What do you think?
viv wrote:
It is not a proven fact that "the little girl is dead" or that the McCanns disposed of her body, so technically that is most certainly libel.

I can assure you I do know an awful lot of facts and evidence about the case and have spent more hours over the last two and half years researching them than I would care to admit!

I think the trouble is some people have difficult deciding what facts are and at the end of the day, it is for a court of law to decide having heard all the evidence, not you or I or Goncalo Amaral!

Viv, no offence, but your style reminds me of "Anna raccoon" aka "carmen-curlers".

An educated but "blinkered" opinion, if I may say so. Also a "coonected" and "collaberative" view, if I've got things right.by Laffin Assasin
on Sun 17 Jan - 3:11

Search in: Amaral v McCanns Trial
Topic: RE: The chances of the McCanns winning the hearing. What do you think?
Replies: 51
Views: 1000RE: The chances of the McCanns winning the hearing. What do you think?
viv wrote:
It is not a proven fact that "the little girl is dead" or that the McCanns disposed of her body, so technically that is most certainly libel.

I can assure you I do know an awful lot of facts and evidence about the case and have spent more hours over the last two and half years researching them than I would care to admit!

I think the trouble is some people have difficult deciding what facts are and at the end of the day, it is for a court of law to decide having heard all the evidence, not you or I or Goncalo Amaral!

I'm prepared to stand in a witness box in a UK court and say that I'm of the opion that Maddy is dead and give my reasonoing for coming to that conclution.
I'll put my "house" and bank accountt on my train of though. Even my "life" if it gets to the "TRUTH". by Laffin Assasin
on Sun 17 Jan - 3:05

viv said...

Glad to see your spelling and obsessions have now improved a little, Assassin (however you wish to spell it)

Never doubted you need help...

viv said...

Blogger Tinkerbell43 said...

Vile, we don’t want to shut you up, but if you want a voice, why are you posting comments to a blog that wont publish them Doh!

30 March 2010 09:07

Oh dear Tinks, I think it is you who is not very bright, or should I call you Assassin, Doh!

viv said...

1. Foreign nationals and those living abroad can make FIO Act requests. Doh!

*from above post, by Assasin who was also telling me I am not welcome on his blog, what would that be? The paedophiles blog, oh yes!

Just think what the police can spot eh, dumbo, pudding head, DOH lol!

viv said...

hey ho, just as we are all talking about paedophiles, property developers and Gerry getting back to his Irish roots, could not resist adding this little gem to my collection:

Laffin Assasin Yesterday at 14:19

Marky wrote:
Maelstrom wrote:
Marky wrote:

ah, cut and paste. gotta love it.

But no source??



I'd read that Wiki account, but, I got told many years ago, by a intelligent, book reading, Irish man, who I've known since child hood, who visit's Ireland often, about the "Eamon de Valera" theory.
Laffin Assasin
Platinum Poster

Number of posts: 3575

Points: 4153
Registration date: 2009-08-22

viv said...

oh and the above was on the "Save the Children" thread of the delightful Missing Madeleine, such a pity Laffin Assasin can only tell us she is dead. Let us hope that certainty is not from personal knowledge.