18 Jan 2010
SIMON ALDRIDGE BROKEN MOBILES SWAPPED MOBILES PORTUGUESE MOBILES
1485 “Okay. Just finally, Fiona, I just want to ask you, you are aware that there is going to be a re-enactment over in Portugal, it is either going to be at the end of April or into May?”
1485 “How do you feel about attending that re-enactment?”
Reply “Well I’ve made my feelings clear in a letter, erm, already. Erm, my feelings are, I would do absolutely anything if I felt it was going to help bring, find Madeleine or find who took her. Erm, my reservations are, at this point, how doing the re-enactment is going to achieve that or advance the search in any way. And, obviously, there is a lot of apprehensions about doing it, just in terms of the media and they way we’ve been treated, the way the media would react to us doing the re-enactment, how they’d sort of physically actually manage to do a re-enactment without massive media intrusion, erm, and how the information would be used, I mean, we all know that we’re telling the truth of our actions on the night and if doing a re-enactment were going to be for the purpose of trying to find holes or, you know, in our movements and statements and try and rubbish our statements, then we know that’s not going to help find Madeleine, because we know, we were there, and we know we’re telling the truth, so I wouldn’t be happy to do it if that was the reason for doing it. I’d just like to be convinced how it’s going to move the investigation on really, erm, to find Madeleine”.
Reply “And, at the moment really, we’ve got no reason to trust the motives of doing a re-enactment when Kate and Gerry are still aguido and, if they’re aguido, I think we’ve all got to be implicated, because I just don’t see how Kate and Gerry could have done anything that’s been suggested without us all being in on it, you know, it’s just impossible”.
1485 “Is that it?”
Reply “So, you know, that’s a big stumbling block really”.
1485 “So, at this present moment, you are saying you wouldn’t?”
Reply “No, I mean, we haven’t really had any, been given any information about how it’s going to be used and that’s the information that I think we would all need if we were going to do it and, obviously, there’s no point one of us doing it without everybody doing it. So, I think, you know, as far as I’m concerned, I’d only do it if everybody else was doing it, otherwise it’s pointless. And I still don’t see, erm, I think, emotionally, it would be hideous to go back and have to do an re-enactment, I really do, and I don’t see how, erm, emotions couldn’t affect the way it was done, because it would just be horrific, I mean, imagine, you know, Jane having to relive that, Kate having relive that, any of us having to relive that, you, you couldn’t do it without it being an emotional thing”.
Reply “Erm, so I just, I just don’t see, I mean, in my eyes, doing it, it would be beneficial if actors and actresses did it because they don’t have that emotion and you can still direct them to exactly what you were doing and where you went and your movements. So, so I still don’t, we still haven’t had an answer to that really, that side of it”.
1485 “Okay. Alright. At this stage I have got nothing else to say to you”.
1485 “As you are aware, the interview is being monitored and it may well be that they have some further questions, but at this present moment, there are no more further questions”.
1485 “Alright. Actually there is. Sorry. Do you have your phone?”
1485 “I just want to clarify your, did you take your mobile with you?”
Reply “I didn’t. My mobile had actually broken before we went on holiday, so we just had Dave’s mobile”.
1485 “Right. So did anybody use your mobile whilst you were away?”
Reply (shakes head)
Reply “They couldn’t have done, no”. 1485 “No. Could you just see if you have any of these numbers in your phone?” (So he thinks her mobile was being used, even though she thought it had been left at home)
1485 “07XXX XXXXXX”.
Reply “07XX. I’ll look for 07XXX”.
1485 “The last digits are going to be XXX, that is going to be easiest”.
1485 “Sorry, you must have loads. Also look for one that ends in XXX as well”.
Reply “Ah XXX. Is it 07XXX XXXXXX?”
Reply “That’s my, Simon XXXXXXXX, my brother-in-law”.
1485 “It is who, sorry?”
Reply “Simon XXXXXXX, he’s my brother-in-law”.
1485 “Is there any reason why he would have been called?”
Reply “We did speak, well it couldn’t have been off my phone, is this from my phone?” (this implies someone was using her phone whilst she thought she had left it at home broken, now who could that have been, I wonder)
1485 “Well it is possible that it, no, it wouldn’t have been off your phone”. (almost spilt the beans and then thought no leave her in the dark)
1485 “It would have been off”.
Reply “It would have been off Dave’s”.
1485 “Dave’s, yeah”.
Reply “We did speak to him, yeah”.
1485 “Did you actually make any calls yourself?” (maybe have triangulation want to be sure who was making the calls)
Reply “Erm, I used, I Dave’s phone. I’m trying to think who phoned Simon. I think Dave phoned Simon the following morning, erm, just because he’s another pragmatic, sensible thinking person”. 1485 “Yeah”.
Reply “Erm, I mean, you know, we would have phoned all our family that following day anyway”.
Reply “But we had a lot of calls from him. Plus he’s, he was, erm, just wanting to be of help really, so he did phone a fair bit as well, just in terms of, he organised for, erm, mobile phones, erm, you know, Portuguese mobile phones to be sent out to use, he, you know, he runs a business in XXXXX, erm, and financially as well, he was offering help if we needed, you know, money”.
1485 “Is there anybody other than family that you rang then?”
Reply “Erm, I rang the Children’s Nursery, tut”.
1485 “Have you got that number in there?”
Reply “Erm, yeah. I think I might have texted them. Erm, XX, sorry, it’s 01XXX XXXXXX”.
Reply “What was the other ending that you wanted, XXX?”
1485 “XXX, yeah”.
Reply “Sorry, I didn’t get to the last ones. 07XXX XXXXXX?”
1485 “That is it, yeah”.
Reply “That’s Dave’s number”.
1485 “That is Dave’s number, is it?”
Reply “It’s his mobile number, yeah”.
1485 “Another one that ends in XXX?”
Reply “(inaudible). XXX. 07XXX XXXXXX, that’s Karen XXXXX, which is Dave’s sister”.
1485 “The next one is a Portuguese number, well it is a short number, it is 91XXXXXXX?” Reply “I don’t, I wouldn’t have that in this phone, erm, it’s a Portuguese number. Is it a Portuguese mobile number?” (If her phone was broken and left at home, as she thought, how was it ringing a Portuguese number the following day, odd that)
1485 “I don’t know. It is just too short for, because ours are normally eleven, aren’t they?”
Reply “Yeah, we, because, as I say, (getting rather flustered here) Simon did organise, erm, a Portuguese mobile phone for us to use out there, erm, which we’ve still got at home, I couldn’t tell you what the number was for that mobile, but I used that once I was out there, you know, to contact, you know, Dave or, or any of them, I’ve texted on it”.
1485 “Somebody would have rang it or texted it?”
Reply “Yeah, tut, I’m just trying to remember how much I used it, you know, every day. Again, I mean, if I had Dave’s mobile phone bills, which I think we did give to somebody actually, it might have been Kate and Gerry’s Lawyers actually, but we did use those. I can’t remember how much I used them and how much I used the Portuguese phone, but we certainly had a Portuguese mobile”.
1485 “Yeah. It sent a text to XXX, which is Dave’s phone”.
Reply “Uh hu”.
1485 “On the fourth of the fifth, so it is the following night”. Reply “Yeah”. 1485 “At twenty-two zero two”. Reply “So we would have been at the Police Station”. 1485 “And then twenty-two zero eight”. Reply “Sorry, from which phone, because we wouldn’t have had the Portuguese phone by then?” 1485 “It would have sent, the Portu, well I’ve got the Port”. Reply “I don’t know how quickly the phone arrived”.
(so what the police officer is saying is that this Portuguese phone that Simon Payne apparently arranged to send over was already with them by the following night and someone was using it to text Dave's phone from the police station. That kind of implies that was Fiona and she was letting Dave know how much trouble they were in, perhaps? But as she later goes on to admit they all swapped their phones around so not sure who was texting who really)
1485 “Yeah”. Reply “I can’t imagine it was that quick”. 1485 “The Portuguese phone, or that number, sent a text to Dave’s number at twenty-two zero two on the fourth, the following night?” Reply “So it was when I was being interviewed that evening. I don’t think our phones came out that, I can’t imagine they would have been out by then, on the Friday night, so I don’t know. I’ll just check it isn’t, are you sure it’s a Portuguese number? Just read the number out again, I’ll just check it”.
1485 “It is 91XXXXXXX”.
Reply “Yeah, it is a funny number, isn’t it?”
1485 “It has only got nine digits as opposed to our eleven”.
Reply “Yeah. No, I haven’t got that number on and I can’t think, I can’t think who could have sent a Portuguese number at that point. Dave might recall when our mobile phones came out, but I’m sure it wasn’t, it couldn’t have been that quickly, erm”. (Well you know Fiona maybe Gerry and Payne already took Portuguese mobiles with them and your "broken" phone too?)
1485 “Okay. Here is another number that ends in, it looks like it ends in XXXX”.
1485 “It might not necessarily be a mobile number”.
Reply “Erm, Dave’s mum, Diane PAYNE. Is it 0044 XXXX XXXXXX?”
1485 “Say that again?”
Reply “I’ve got 0044 XXXX XXXXXX?”
1485 “That is it, yeah. Who is that, sorry?”
Reply “That’s Diane PAYNE, it’s Dave’s mother”.
1485 “Yeah, there was calls made on the fourth from Dave’s mobile number?”
Reply “Umm, to Diane, yeah”.
1485 “So to his mum?”
1485 “The next one ends in XXXX”.
1485 “It may well be 01XXX, if that rings a bell”.
Reply “(inaudible). I’ll just go through methodically. XXXX. Erm, XXXX is, erm, yeah, 01XXX XXXXXX, that is Karen XXXXX’s home number”.
1485 “And who did you say that was?”
Reply “That’s Dave’s sister”.
1485 “Yeah. Do you know what the nature of those calls were?”
Reply “Well it was purely letting people know what had happened really and obviously there was a lot of concern back home as soon as the, the news hit, erm”.
1485 “And would you have made those calls from David’s phone or would Dave have made them?” Reply “No, Dave made, Dave spoke to his family, (officer again establishing who exactly was using the phone) I didn’t speak to this family”.
1485 “Okay. The next one, I think it is 02XX, so it could be a London number. XXXX it ends it”. Reply “XXXX. No, that’s not in my mobile, but I’m just recalling, I did make some phone calls on behalf of Kate, erm, the following morning and those, it’s a shame, because we’ve all swapped mobiles, you see, and not all of them were transferred, (now why on earth would they do that!!) but I’m pretty sure, erm, I rang at least two on Dave’s phone, just to let them know, again, you know, what had happened”.
1485 “Is that in the morning?”
Reply “Erm, that would have been, yeah, the following morning. (by the following morning they had all started swopping their mobiles around, how strange) I mean, I would be just saying to Kate, you know, ‘What can we do. What can we do’, and that was just one of the things, she said, ‘Look, just everyone will be panicking at home, just’, you know, ‘if you can contact a few people’. So, yeah, those might be numbers that I wouldn’t have now in my mobile that”. (but on her account above how could they be on her mobile when she says it was left at home broken, is she admitting she knows it was taken by Dave and being used?)
1485 “Dave could well have them?”
Reply “Well he’s changed his mobile as well because his died a death, (oh dear Dave all these broken phones and only certain numbers get carried across on the SIm card, umm) so I don’t think all his numbers are, you know, they weren’t all saved on the SIM card. But it’s easy enough for me to find out if they are, erm, friends or”. (or WHAT Fiona??)
1485 “Okay. There is two more left anyway. The first one is, it is a mobile number and it ends in XXXX”.
Reply “XXXX. Is that 07XXX XXXXXX? That’s a friend of mine, Lisa XXXXXXX”.
Reply “XXXXXXX. X, X, X, X, X, X, X”.
1485 “And where does she live?”
Reply “She lives near to us in Leicester, erm”.
1485 “And who was it that rang her or text her?”
Reply “I would have rang her”.
1485 “It is actually a text”.
Reply “I would have called her and, I think, at that point, it was just to check on the house, erm, she had a key to my house and she’s a good friend as well”.
1485 “And the final one ends in three, one, two, three”.
Reply “Three, one, two, three. Sorry, I’ve forgotten, three, two, one, three?”
1485 “Three, one, two, three”.
Reply “Three, one, two, three”.
Reply “No, not got that one”.
1485 “Not got that one?”
Reply (shakes head)
Reply “Again, as I say, it could be (inaudible)”.
1485 “That is it. Unless somebody else has any more questions, alright?”
1485 “It is now shown at three fifty-two and we will stop it”.