Updated - it is now confirmed that Fiona and David Payne, together with Fiona's mother (who was always scrupulously honest) informed Portuguese Police last July the rest of the group were telling a pack of lies THEY NEVER CHECKED THE CHILDREN, Jane Tanner certainly never saw any bundleman because she never left the table...the burning question is of course why did she seek to suggest there was an "abductor" and just how much trouble is she in for lieing for Kate and Gerry McCann. The Oldfields just left their one year old baby all night, every night. What a rotten bunch of child neglecting LIARS they are and that is not to mention Kate and Gerry McCann..No wonder Rachel Oldfield looked like someone just walked across her grave in that pic in PDL in July, you know when she was trying to stitch Robert Murat up..so you should be terrified you wicked woman. How come Social Services have not taken their children?
Hi All, Below is the report from 24 Horas, dated 29/5/08 in which it is confirmed the McCanns are being investigated for four crimes - kidnapping, murder, concealment of corpse and abandonment, but as yet there are no charges.
Whenever parents have killed their child, unless the circumstances are obvious, which in this case, clearly they are not, they will always be investigated for murder. This does not mean to say that is what they will be charged with, it is clearly possible they could be charged with manslaughter, in Portuguese culpable homicide : Homicídio culposo. However, what quite often happens in UK law is the prosecution go for the more serious charge (murder) and then accept a plea to manslaughter, or it is open to the jury to actually find the accused guilty of manslaughter rather than murder if the prosecution refused to drop the murder charge. If the prosecution can prove evidence of planning or conduct that is wilful and deliberate then it is very possible they accused person will be convicted of murder. The prosecution always look for evidence of the state of mind of the accused before, during and after the crime to decide on the appropriate charge. Here we have a couple who knew little Madeleine was dead but immediately set up a large fund, that is very damaging evidence against them and goes to the issue of their intent and state of mind. Kate's diary is extremely important evidence here. Also possibly a book the police are alleged to have found in the McCanns villa re criminal law and procedure. The deliberate lies/asking their friends to lie for them is also, utterly damning.
, ******* The Times has deliberately misreported ******** to exculpate the McCanns, claiming the official court document only referred to the crime of abandonment.
I believe this is the McCanns latest strategy, they know they are to be charged but would have us believe, only for neglect. Thus they can still insist that Madeleine was abducted and they are hard done by being prosecuted in such circumstances.
It says the door is open to a possible indictment (charging) of the McCanns even though it has not been possible to determine definitively what happened inside the apartment. As Robert Murat is still an Arguido I assume the kidnapping investigation also relates to him, but as we know the PJ indicated they are not intent on prosecuting him by returning all evidence they seised from him. It is ominous the police were also investigating the McCanns for this. In short they knew they either killed her or arranged for her to be abducted. We should remember the police wanted mobile phone evidence and Kate and Gerry McCann have refused to hand it over, including prior to Madeleine going missing. Some people may not want to accept this, but it clearly confirms the police think that planning was involved here, and the fact the McCanns just will not hand it over, tells us the reality I am afraid.
24 Horas go on to point out that The Times also falsely reported this case last summer by indicating the blood found in the hire car was not Madeleine's when in fact, it was. It is truly shocking that a newspaper we all imagine we can respect are falsely reporting on behalf of the McCanns.
The article also confirms my own view that there will be charges by the end of August because that is when secrecy of justice ends and the McCanns will be allowed to see the court file. This is exactly what happens in UK, once a defendant is charged they are allowed to see the police case against them so they can properly prepare their defence. As we know that defence can no longer rely on seeking to discredit the cadaver dog evidence from the American case they sought to rely upon because that man has now confessed he did indeed murder his wife and has been sentenced.
Dolores reported some local news from a man in Rothley. Gerry is sometimes seen going in the local Co-op and going to work but looks really ill. Kate is not seen at all and does not seem to even leave the house...no one sees her and no one speaks to Gerry, he is just ignored. The strain upon them of continuing this charade is clearly immense and they should ask themselves whether it would be better to just face justice as the American suspect did, where two separate cadaver dogs had quite properly located two separate areas where he had dumped his wife's body as he moved it around seeking to avoid detection.
http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/total.php?numero=2856&link=09
http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/total.php?numero=2856&link=09
24 Horas 29/5/08
Case COVERS KIDNAPPING, MURDER, CONCEALMENT OF CORPSE AND ABANDONMENT As the 24horas said first hand, the couple McCann is being investigated by four crimes, but has not yet been charged
Judicial Police to investigate the possible occurrence of 4 crimes in Maddie case, as shown a judgement of the Court the ratio of Evora, released Tuesday, at first hand, for 24 hours. Yesterday, the English newspaper "The Times" returned to the subject, citing the same document, to advance that Kate and Gerry McCann can be accused by the Ministry The crime of Public exposure or abandonment of minor, punishable by the Code Criminal with a penalty between 3 and 10 years in prison. According to law, incurred in practice of this crime who endanger the lives of another person, "abandoning - without the defense, always the agent has the duty to save, monitor or watch. "
Judicial Police to investigate the possible occurrence of 4 crimes in Maddie case, as shown a judgement of the Court the ratio of Evora, released Tuesday, at first hand, for 24 hours. Yesterday, the English newspaper "The Times" returned to the subject, citing the same document, to advance that Kate and Gerry McCann can be accused by the Ministry The crime of Public exposure or abandonment of minor, punishable by the Code Criminal with a penalty between 3 and 10 years in prison. According to law, incurred in practice of this crime who endanger the lives of another person, "abandoning - without the defense, always the agent has the duty to save, monitor or watch. "
However, as explained by 24 hours, this is only one of the lines in research. In that case run end in Services the Ministry of Public District of Portimão, is also being investigated by thesis and the possibility of abduction of murder and concealment the corpse. First document which speaks of two theories This is the first official document to admit the existence of two lines Research - and abduction murder - and to "open" the door to a possible indictment of McCann even though there is a failure to reach definitive conclusions about what happened in apartment 5 -- In the Ocean Club. One possibility that the spokesman for McCann, Clarence Mitchell, now called of "contradictory and inconsistent". The interim report of PJ on the disappearance , Madeleine arrived in 11, the prosecutor September last year. Since that time the process has been accompanied by Attorney General district of Evora, Luis Bilro summer, one of the Top of the MP. In the process, which remains in secret, justice until 15, August, were set three defendants: Kate and Gerry McCann and Robert Murat, an English resident in Praia da Luz in Lagos, in Algarve ■
ERROR. The improper interpretation of the judgement of the Court made by "The Times" newspaper is not the first serious mistake that the newspaper withgreat prestige has committed in the Maddie case. In summer, 2007,on the cover, it announced that the traces of blood found in the McCann's car were not fromMaddie, when came to know after it, they were.
ERROR. The improper interpretation of the judgement of the Court made by "The Times" newspaper is not the first serious mistake that the newspaper withgreat prestige has committed in the Maddie case. In summer, 2007,on the cover, it announced that the traces of blood found in the McCann's car were not fromMaddie, when came to know after it, they were.
631 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 631 Newer› Newest»PS I was talking with my eldest son earlier explaining there is a mystery person Gerry exchanged 18 texts with on 2 and 4 May and PJ cannot identify this number, he said "oh a pay as you go mobile". Now why didn't I think of something as simple as that!
I also told him Gerry will not release the records. I won't bother to tell you what he said next, other than he thinks his mom may well be right!
You know Guys I just don't think McCann troll likes me much! Is it "absolutely terrifying" to get barred from a blog for being rude! Well she should know..now come guys if you are not being used and abused by me, then it surely must be Docmac, so listen to sweet Rosie and wise up because she is a real expert on bullying and intimidation....Personally, I think some people hide their apparent "nasty streak" an awful lot better than other:-))))))))))
JUSTICE FOR MADDIE XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Rosiepops said...
Bianca,
one thing no one can accuse you of is not having the courage of your own convictions and I respect you for that.
As your opinions are with mum21 yours and my opinions are a million miles apart, but I do not think you are beyond redemption (joke).
You think that Viv had a well hidden nasty streak? This is the strange thing about it all, her nasty streak was not well hidden to many of us, it was extremely evident, it is only most of you so called antis that cannot not see it. Somehow you have fallen under her evil auspices and had become blinded to her venom, vitriol and sheer viciousness. Is this because people do not want to see it because if they do they will lose an ali? Or is it because they are absolutely terrified to say they do not agree with her because of the fear of exactly what has happened to you?
This woman has tried to bully and intimidate me (and others) almost from the first time she appeared on the DX boards.
Anyway who cares about that awful vile creature, all I hope is that others that still resemble normality on that blog will start seeing it and her for what they actually are.
Now you have seen this, I wonder how long it will be before you fall in about how false and sinister notdoc is? This person is manipulating Viv, he has never got one sensible thing to say, his role is to goad the pros and to encourage the personality flaws and disorders of Vile's posters and he is working Viv as if she is one huge puppet and it is him pulling her strings behind the scenes, the silly woman has a crush on him and cannot see that she is being used, abused and manipulated. In fact every woman on that board is being used like this by docmac to a certain extent and he will go as far with it as he can get away with. Some of us have had him sussed right from the off. he will make grand little gestures like he did to you yesterday, do not be fooled yet again Bianca, this man is pure evil.
Come on now, you have had a genuine and excellent education, you have been around professional people, ask yourself how many of those people, especially members of the medical profession, would allow themselves to become associated with such a dreadful place and person such as Vile?
If he is a genuine doctor (which I just do not believe) and is really in the responsible position that he is in as head of a unit like a neonatal unit, 1) Why on earth would he put his reputation in jeopardy and 2) Where would he get the time to put his reputation in such serious jeopardy? 3) If you knew where he had been hanging out and theorising in such blood curdling sickening ways over this poor little child, would you want him to have anything at all to do with the medical care of your own children? 4) If he is a doctor, then he broke his Hippocratic oath by naming some of his defenceless little patients on the internet. Would you like hi naming your children on the internet?
I see he has given himself a promotion lately, he has progressed from being a medic to a surgeon and has been describing how he has been operating on these tiny imaginary tots. In the world of medicine, this just does not happen Bianca.
Complete and utter nonsense and a complete and utter fabrication.
Still you carry on believing what you want to believe Bianca, don't say we did not try and warn you, just as we tried to warn you about Vile.
Just remember the internet enables every Tom, Dick and loser, to be exactly what they want to be. Ask him about his coffee vigilante mornings with the grannies! Yet another dubious string to this man’s mentally unstable bow!
Rosie x
02 June 2008 16:06
24 Horas
WITNESSES had come to Algarve TO STRENGTHEN THE WORD THAT DISCLAIMS MCCANN
Friends are key to PJ
In a secret visit to Portugal, three people
that have dinned at the Tapas Bar destroyed in the versions of McCann and Jane Tanner
Text ● Carlos Thomas
Fiona Payne, his mother, Dianne Webster, and her husband, David Payne. These are the main assets
the prosecutor that could lead the parents of Madeleine McCann, the girl disappeared, May 3, 2007, an apartment in Praia da Luz, Algarve, being accused of crimes of exposure and neglect for leaving the girl alone at night inevitable. It is
a crime whose penalty comes to ten years in prison and allows their preventive arrests, as already reported in 24 hours last week.
These three witnesses before returning to Portugal, July 11, 2007, in a trip paid
by the Portuguese, having been housed at a hotel in Portimao, found the 24 hours. They were also questioned by the team of Gonçalo Amaral, the top coordinator that the case was dismissed, and rejected the version of the McCann about what happened the night of the disappearance. It is recalled that Kate, Gerry and the other two couples with whom jantaram
assurances that if revezavam in monitoring the children. One fact that was denied to the authorities in that secret trip by Fiona Payne and had been called into question
in testimony provided in the two days that followed the disappearance of Maddie, both by his mother and the husband. Jane Tanner denied "Fiona Payne gave three statements to authorities, and Matthew Oldfield and partner, Rachel. The testimony of Dianne Webster, mother of Fiona, was very consistent and there was no need to re-examine, "revealed the 24 hours a law officer linked to the process.
According to amesma source, "the other people who jantaram with McCann - Jane Tanner, the companion, Russell O'Brien, Mattew Oldfield and wife, Rachel - have made contradictory statements." And the law officer exemplifies: "Jane Tanner always said he left the
restaurant to go see the eldest daughter. Fiona, David and Dianne assured the PJ that she never left the restaurant before being released the alarm for Kate. This information was corroborated by several officials of the restaurant Tapas Bar. " These witnesses also said that Gerry McCann ido will not even see their children, absent when the restaurant, becoming the
entrance of the apartment in Praia da Luz ■
The only person who was in Tapas Bar in Tapas Bar only person who was in Tapas Bar
Dianne Webster, of 63 years, mother of Fiona Payne (36 years), was one of three people who
showed available to return to Portugal and help the authorities to reconstruct the events of May 3, 2007.
She was the one that was impávida and calm when Kate McCann entered the Tapas Bar shouting
"They took it." The authorities desconfiaram of attitude and it has will be said that did not believe the version of McCann. He stressed the PJ that each couple was responsible for their children, not anyone entering the apartment of friends.
facts
Secret. The McCann organized a dinner "secret" with all the friends with whom dinned in Tapas Bar, in Praia da Luz, Algarve, before the completion of letters rogatory sent to England. PROSECUTION. The accusation is nearly complete to McCann and
should be known before the day July 14, when the deadline for ending incriminate or exempt the British couple. The autoridades judiciais are still considering whether will not do more defendants, since the
McCann were not the only ones to leave their children abandoned.
PS. Google translation!
Zzzzzzzzzzzz
Yet more threats from one of the worst racist thugs when she used to post on the Daily Express, Mum21:
"signing our own death warrant"
What disgusting thuggery!
Mum21 said...
Good Morning ST.
You said "But Viv is running a hate site, not a place for debate."
How right you are! Not only is it not a place to debate...but a place you are not allowed to debate. Unless of course you believe 100% that the McCann's are guilty of killing their child.
The bile that is being spewed out on a daily basis on that blog is beyond belief and libellous.
As for the constant attacks on the Pro's....we are used to it. What else would we expect from a misguided bunch of idiots.
It worries me not.....because they are signing their own death warrant. There is a limit to what even blogging is allowed....and SOON it will be BINGO...GONE!
02 June 2008 09:39
Hiya Ana
That is fantastic news. I said they never checked the children and I called Jane Tanner a liar, I was never holding my breath waiting for the libel writ to arrive!
Viv x
Hiya all I am sure this lady will not mind me sharing her lovely email, I have asked her to join us anyway, of course.
Hi Viv,
Firstly let me congratulate for your excellent blog.
I am Portuguese but I live in Belgium. The first time I heard of the missing british girl was on national tv. Later when I phoned my mother in Portugal she told that the parents had left her and her siblings alone while they wined and dined. Three little children the same age as my own (5,4 & 2)! Frankly I was shocked and my first thought was that she had wandered of alone. Next time I heard of the case was when a Portugues friend told me about them paying PI's to look for their daughter and my reaction was something like: "Perhaps they should have payed a sitter,that would have been cheaper." Everyone was surprised: how could I be so mean.
Two months later I went to Portugal (ah, the life of a teacher 8 weeks holiday) and my elderly neighbour brought up the subject and I said something along the lines of: they don't even know when she vanished because they simply were not there. And who is to say they didn't do it themselves. Again shock all around ( it was early july). By the end of august we started hearing rumours that the police were suspecting the parents. In addition the portuguese press reported that the british press was very biased. When the Mccanns were finally made arguidos I was already back in Belgium and I decided to see if they were right. Which finally brings me to you I read the DE and HYS. It was addictive and I was glad to see that although many sought to descredit the PJ and the portuguese there was always someone jumping to the defence. I started skipping and just reading the interesting post (yours, ratonthebeam, ironside,docmac,alsabela,wooram...). As I was gathering my courage to join the fray ( i'm a computeriliterate) things turned nasty. Everybody I liked got banned but then someone posted the address to this site and to alsabella's and I started reading those.
Secondly tonight I had an interesting conversation with one of my students (she is a childtherapist). We were talking about the Mccann case because she knows I follow it closely. Anyway I was talking about the Fund, the vatican,the white house, how they always put themselves first and she said to me that it reminded her of a kid she had placed a long time ago. The mother had münchhausen by proxy syndrome, she liked the attention. She had already killed three of her children and the fourth made a narrow escape. By the way this woman was a lawyer. Food for thought don't you think.
Well anyway I would like to thank you for this very informative site. I also would like to join but as I said I don't know anything about computers and this cyberstalking thing etc. just plain scares me.
also a really good email from Atardi, I hope you can sign in now darling
Small traces of sleeping pills
From:
Sent: 02 June 2008 18:21:19
To: felicity123@live.co.uk
Hi Viv,
Having problems signing in.
2 Weeks ago the police solved a murder here called “De Puttense Moordzaak” because of DNA-evidence.
Because of that I’m receiving a lot of info this days about DNA, so also about the McCanns.
The link about DNA info is:
http://www.elsevier.nl/tags/asp/tn/359/tag/dna/
(Also about England not sending DNA from British criminals to Holland)
About Madeleine:
First you must read the article on the 14th of September (and the denials) and than
the article published on the 14th of October. (DNA from Madeleine)
http://www.elsevier.nl/tags/asp/tn/359/tag/dna/
“Maddie died of an overdosis sleeping pil/sedations.”
The Daily Mail article isn’t the same.
September 14, 2007.
http://www.elsevier.nl/nieuws/society/artikel/asp/artnr/173665/zoeken/ja/index.html
DNA- investigation points out to the parents of Madeleine Mc Cann.
October 7, 2007.
And the comments.
I found this comment very interesting.
Elisa van Heeswijk op dinsdag 9 oktober 2007 11:09
Ik ben bijna geneigd om MOORD uit te sluiten,maar omdat er een injectie-spuit met resten van een slaapmiddel gevonden werd,zou ik er eerder aan geloven dat een FATAAL ongeluk heeft plaats gevonden met Maddy als slachtoffer.De ouders zullen waarschijnlijk wegen de fatale gevolgen (beroepsverbod-afnemen van de andere kinderen-openbare blaam,...enz liever niet meer toegeven,een ongeluk veroorzaakt te hebben.Waarom ze een slaapmiddel gebruikten?Terwijl de vader als arts wist wat de gevolgen konden zijn?Die these kan variabel zijn,eens alleen weg willen en de kinderen alleen thuis kunnen laten onder invloed van een slaapmiddel?
Dat weten alleen de ouders ,maar ik denk dat wij dit nooit zullen ervaren.
My bad translation of the first sentence:
“I’m inclined to rule out murder but because of the fact that an injection needle was found
with small traces of sleeping pills I’d rather think that a fatal accident happened with Madeleine as a victim.”
Viv,
I know the syringe thing has been discussed but I don’t remember
reading of small traces of a sleeping pill. (wrong translation)
Have you read that also about small traces?
Will you please let me know?
I know you can translate better than me so I will send you the first part of the Astrology from Madeleine soon.
Groeten.
Atardi I recall there was a big article I think in the French news that they had definitive evidence that Madeleine had been given sedative medication. Will try and look it out when I have more time but need to get some sleep.
Viv x
Morning,
Here's a link to the page on Joana Morais' site with the story about the secret trip to Portugal:-
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/03/maddie-found-bag-with-bones-in-dam-of.html
It was last July, and names the Paynes and Diane Webster.
Wonder if this will come as a surprise to the remaining Tapasniks?...
LGC,
Can you delete Viv's last post please?
You can see why.
Must go to work.
LGC,
Thanks!
Must go now.
Have a nice day.
Ana,
Great news.
Great post Stella, maybe we should revisit this one!! Viv xxxxx
Wizard
That seems quite likely.
I only found out recently that the Paine's were in 5b and not Tanner and O'Brien, but this still does not explain why Clarence said Rachel Oldfield was in 5b all night and did not hear anything. Why was RO in the Paine's room all night?
Posted by Stella to JUSTICE FOR MADDIE AND THE TWINS at Friday, 16 May 2008 16:28:00 o'clock BST
Jane Tanner Contradicted
“ Fiona Payne gave three statements to the authorities, as well as Matthew Oldfield and his companion, Rachel. Dianne Webster statement [Fiona's mother] was very solid and there was not need of questioning her again”, revealed to 24horas a judicial person in charge connected with the process. In accordance to the same source, “other persons who had dinner with the McCanns - Jane Tanner, her companion, Russell O'Brien, Matthew Oldfield and his wife, Rachel – gave contradictory statements”. And the judicial person in charge exemplifies: "”Jane Tanner always said that she went out from the restaurant to see her oldest daughter. Fiona, David and Dianne guaranteed to the PJ that she never left the restaurant before the alarm was given by Kate. This information was corroborated by several workers of the Tapas Bar restaurant”. These witnesses also stated that Gerry McCann did not even go to check on the children, when he went away of the restaurant, and that he only stayed at the apartment of Praia da Luz entrance.
Hiya again all
Dolores thanks that makes more sense now I could not completely understand the last translation..Gerry just stood near the entrance and never checked on the children at all.
It is clearly only because there have been other investigations going on to actually find out what happened to Madeleine that Tanner OB Oldfields and McCanns did not get arrested a long time ago!
Viv x
No wonder Rachel Oldfield looked so horrified in that picture when she went back last July and keeps blabbing to the press! You might as well shut up now Rachel..
Viv
No wonder G is reported looking ill and K never leaving the house.
Their game is up,and now it is time for the truth to come out and Justice for Madeleine.
Viv
They say they were scared to go back for reconstruction in fear of being arrested,that says it all really.If they had been honest and not lied they would have no fear.
WITNESSES CAME TO THE ALGARVE TO REINFORCE TESTIMONY THAT CONTRADICTS THE MCCANNS
Friends are the PJ trumps
In a secret visit to Portugal, three persons who had dinner at the Tapas Bar shattered the McCanns and Jane Tanner versions
Fiona Payne, her mother Dianne Webster, and the husband David Payne. Are the main trumps of the Public Ministry that will lead the parents of Madeleine McCann, the missing girl, on the 3rd of May of 2007, from an apartment in Praia da Luz, Algarve, to be accused of the crimes of exposition and abandonment since they left the girl alone in that critical night. It is a crime that is punishable up to ten years of prison and allows the respective preventive arrests, like 24horas announced last week.
These three witnesses returned to Portugal, on the 11th of July of 2007, in a travel paid by the Portuguese State, and where accommodated in a hotel unity of Portimão. They were still questioned by Gonçalo Amaral’s team, the superior coordinator who was removed from the case, and they contradicted the McCann’s version regarding to what went on in the night of the disappearance.
Remember that Kate, Gerry and the other two couples with whom they had dinner, assured that they were taking turns in the vigilance to the children. A fact that was contradicted to the authorities in the above-mentioned secret travel by Fiona Payne and that had already been a put in question in two previous statements, given on the days that followed to Maddie's disappearance, by her mother and her husband.
Good morning folks,
the 3As is back in action. I've not deserted you all on this blog BTW - just been very busy helping to get the other forum back. We finally finished uploading everything in the wee small hours of this morning. Now I have my eye propped open with match sticks because I have to go to work in 10minutes!
Special thanks to our teccie guy without whom none of it would have been possible! We are so lucky to have him.
The only SAFE way to access the forum is to go to www.the3arguidos.net and click on the link. That takes you to the secure area of the forum.
Is ST still claiming credit for knocking us out? If so the FBI would be most interested in that. Apparently it was one hell of an explosion. There is a rumour - and I stress that this is ONLY a rumour - that it was deliberate.
Anyway, don't care now. The 3As are here to stay and so is Viv's blog. Team McCann, read it and weep!!!!!!!
See you all later
rat XXX
Hi all
Dolores
What a horrible liar Jane Tanner is. The lowest of the lowest. Remember Clarence Mitchell and his press conference, where he showed the image of the man that Jane Tanner/Gail Cooper made up?
They all tried to pin everything on an innocent man who had nothin to do with anything.
Interesting !! From Ironsides.
Dear Sir,
Apologies for the delay in coming back to you, due to the fact that I have been out of office last week.
Missing Children Europe has met informally with Kate and Gerry McCann, at the occasion of which the issues of concern for Missing Children Europe were discussed. The lunch refered to did however not take place.
Furthermore, the statement that Kate McCann would become an Ambassador for Missing Children Europe is also not true, and is as far as we are concerned purely a presupposition of certain newspapers.
I hope this clarifies the questions you had concerning this issue,
Best regards, naam weggelaten, maar is de officiele woordvoerster
Mariana,
They are all liars.They expect the public to swallow it without questiong.
Dolores
I believe the above statement, from the EU official.
It was all a shameless show on the part of the desperate McCann's and their spokesman. Lies and nothing but lies. They haven't said a single piece of truth.
"These witnesses also stated that Gerry McCann did not even go to check on the children, when he went away of the restaurant, and that he only stayed at the apartment of Praia da Luz entrance."
Perhaps he was waiting for his paedophile.
I don't know, you wait for ages and then three come along at once...
Rat,
Well done and thanks on behalf of many for all your hard work.
CONGRATULATIONS!!! HIP HIP HOORAY!!!
XXX
"They haven't said a single piece of truth."
Maybe they didn't really have three children - after all, they didn't act as if they did...
I'm off now to start my campaign 'Stop Taking the P out of the PJ'.
Should I ask Kate to front it? She's such a revered figure worldwide, after all...
LGC
Do you want me to direct your campaign free of charge?
Mariana,
That's really kind of you! But I've already engaged Elton John, the White House and the Pope since they appear not to have a good cause to champion after all!
LGC
What a stiff competition. I guess I am not glamorous enough for you.
Hi all,
'archer said...
China
Hi to you.
Wouldn't you have thought, in the circumstances, that he would have made some sort of contact? A letter or a phonecall introducing himself. At the very least that.'
02 June 2008 22:32
Claudia,
From your post last night. PMSL. I wonder if an invitation from Dr. R.A. will be sent in a brown envelope marked Rothley Manor requesting the pleasure of their company for afternoon tea and scones at a Court in Lisbon some time soon.
Zodiac,
lolololololololol
I almost PMSL last night! They are so thick it's embarassing!
Zodiac, did you enjoy your trip to Portigal in spite of the weather?
They will only be interested if there is money in it as well!!! :-)
Hi Viv, Claudia, and everyone - good to read all your comments from last night and this morning.
I don't think the tapas 9 will be on cloud 9 with the news from Portugal, or even tapa 10, whoever he is! It has to be the start of Madeleine getting justice I'm sure!
I thought the e-mail from the lady in Belgium was a really nice gesture on her part and it would be nice if she decided to join us all - she certainly sounded as positive as the rest of us that the McCanns (and some of their pals) are keeping a dark secret!!
Talking about Archer, Aitken etc, I'm sure that even if these McCanns, or any of their pals are convicted of anything other than neglect, they will still be writing their best sellers to recoup any libel charges they are forced to fork out for!! And they say that crime doesn't pay - maybe not in personal pride, but it makes up for it in lining criminals' pockets! These two have no conscience or they wouldn't have set out to deceive and make money out of their daughter's disappearance in the first place!
One thing strikes me. If it was proved that they started up the Madeleine Fund fraudulently, and also have duped the media into believing everything they say with their interviews etc, could they be charged in an English court for fraud or perjury, bearing in mind much it took place after they returned from PdeL and on British soil?
Just a thought! And if anyone else has already asked this question I'm sorry I must have missed it!
Nx
Mariana,
Nothing to do with glamour, but everything to do with World Domination...where do you rate with regards to that?
Claudia,
Thick certainly seems to be the common factor!
We had a great time in Fatima. We attended Mass in the beautiful Basicila. We were lucky it was not too busy and we visited everywhere in the square. The statue of Pope John Paul II (my husband and I saw him in 1982, I think, when he visited Glasgow) is very impressive as is the Chapel built to accommodate 8,500 people. I have my little bottles of water as gifts for family and friends. I also brought home water from the fountain to water a plant I have in my garden in memory of a much loved/missed sister, the trip to Fatima was extra special as it was the anniversary of the death of my sister. The weather did not bother me, I do not like the heat and when it rained when we were there it was light and not for long. Two years ago when we were in Lisbon in the month of July it was too hot for me. Just out of curiosity Claudia, we had a quick tour around Lisbon at the end of the trip. We passed a Cinema and there were lots of fancy cars and photographers about, the guide said something important must be happening. Was there anything in your press about it? We passed the Cinema on the 27/5 at 2/3pm approx.
Zodiac xx
Hi, Zodiac. I'm glad you liked it. I'm obviously biased, but I have a beautiful country. Well, I thought it could be our own Golden Globe Awards ceremony, but I don't think that's the right date. I live quite far from Lisbon but I may be able to ask around! :-)
Thanks Claudia.
I hope Ironside does not mind me reproducing a post of his from the 3As (thanks, Ironside, sterling work indeed):
"I am now working with another poster and we are doing some research together.
We are going through a Dutch Forum,where it appears a lot of reports have been printed that never reached british shores....
For example, Ruth Mccann owner of app 5a, lives less than a mile from kates parents...she lives there now, and has always lived there, from when kate was a child.....kate made a comment that her family knew PDL well...this was in an interview, she then backtracked and said she herself had never been there, although members of her family had...It could be a Panorama interview..Or hello..This came from her lips..
I am wondering if the pool photo is from one of their other trips The weather that day looks very hot...in other photos everyone is wearling cardigans or sweaters...
I am also wondering if Kates parents are friends of Ruth Mccann and have they been to PDL in that appartment..."
LGC
I am not very good at dominating anything, sorry...
Mariana,
Then I'm sorry to have to disappoint you, but the Pope has it.
Never mind, we'll keep your details on file...
:)
Are these people getting nervous? Why, I wonder...
Snakes turning on each other. Crowded snake pit...
------------------------------
Rosiepops said...
Anonymous, 2.16
when you have the courage to come out and put a name to the *very familiar* style of your posts, perhaps others may take some notice of the sanctimonious hypocritical clap trap you have written.
If you were not an *avid* reader of these blogs you could not have formed the opinions you have.
Same goes for you swedishmum.
So if I can paraphrase;
"I hope 'YOU' can remove 'YOURSELF' from 'YOUR' addiction to McCann blogging"
Total hypocrites.
June 3, 2008 9:00 AM
Rosiepops said...
Jojam,
I knew that was you, problem signing in? Why not sign the bottom of your post?
I think there is something fundamentally wrong with people like you, who go from blog to blog making anonymous comments, telling everyone else how to behave and inferring that they should not blog etc, while doing it yourself. Even if you are reading only, you are still blogging.
I am unequivocal about where I stand, what can be said of yourself? Skulking around the blogs, reading all the comments and scouring them for the ones that you like and then making anonymous comments about them, while pretending to be superior to everyone else.
Don't make me laugh.
I actually think that maybe you should just pop along and get yourself a mental health checkup, rather than give the benefit of your unqualified diagnosis about my mental health on an internet blog, while knocking blogs and bloggers for doing the same.
You are not half as clever and morally superior as you think you are, or like to think you are.
You only started to criticize me because I pulled you up over the way you over reacted and unfairly launched an attack on another poster.
Grow up.
June 3, 2008 9:21 AM
assassin said...
Bianca,
If you think Viv is bad - take heed - Supertroll is 1001 times worse.
It's the really clever ones very few spots game!
Be warned:-)
PS Mum21. Go write some more of your screwed up demon poetry - at least that will make sense to wiccans - if no-one else lmfao!
June 3, 2008 3:47 AM
assassin said...
PS What is all this crap about being able to post an opinion against on Supertrolls?
Utter crap - she is as selective as the rest - publish what they want - and nothing else.
I only know 3 places opposing views are not deleted and Supertrolls sure is not one!
June 3, 2008 3:58 AM
assassin said...
NP Bianca. I agree.
Mum21. You truly are demonic. What claptrap, i never opened my mouth to you at all for a long time, you took potshot after potshot (which i shall have you know your buddies commended me on restraint shown in ignoring you ha ha ha!) which i ignored, not content with that, like some sad imbecilic inadequate little school girl - your next manipulative tactic, on several blogs was, 'I'm not posting here if she is allowed!' lmfao!
Grow Up!
Thats my last comment to you:-)
June 3, 2008 6:40 AM
Mum21 said...
Strange that...because they commended me for ignoring you too!.
By the way Assassin....I still have copies of the vicious attacks you made on me on ST's blog last week. and on the disgusting attack you made on Supertroll.
And I had not even posted a comment to you...it was to Claudia.
I have also been informed of the abuse attacks you have been making about me to Doppel on you forum.
So don't come the old innocent one to me...it does not wash.
June 3, 2008 8:01 AM
Rosiepops said...
Well Bianca, you got me here, even though I do not really read Viv's or her sidekicks very much lately.
However, what do I find when I get here? Me on the front page - Fame at last!
With regard to Docmac,I haven't seen what he has written and neither am I interested.
I have said all I intend to say to you about him.
With regard to *that/your* post, if you do not want people to criticise your parents then do not talk about them on the net, it was you that brought the subject up.
Why are you using Supertroll's to ask people to come here to give you the opportunity to have your say?
You are damned lucky to be able to have your say and be able to defend yourself from false accusations. The McCann's are not that lucky! They have to keep quiet while people like you rant about them and say nothing while people like those sick perverts on Viles, the 3 A's and other ill informed sh*t houses, tell complete and utter lies about them and make the most lurid sexually explicit comments about their beloved and precious missing daughter.
Perhaps the next time you attack these *human beings*, you may like to remember that?
You appear to be judging the McCann's on a couple of people's standards who were in your parents house as guests, about an incident you were not even present at, just because they too are doctors? Now isn't that just typical of people that hold your opinion? You also made some uneducated and ill informed assumptions that this was because they were older parents.
What gives you the right to judge your parents friends because of their age? What gave your parents the right to pass on personal information about their friends to you, so you could spread their business around the internet? Nice way to treat people that were guests in their home! (Not)
At the end of the day, Bianca you are just a character on the internet, just like the rest of us, but the McCanns aren't, they are real people who's lives are being affected, by people like you, Viv, Notdoc, E-coli and all the other faceless ignorant morons that just like to *Have Their say* (not caring if it is the truth or not) and yes I do rate you and lump you in with these people, so protest about how vile, Vile is, but really you are not that much better.
How dare we mock your parents? Answer us this: "What gives you the right to label someone else’s parents child neglecters?" What gives you the right to call Madeleine's parents, child neglecters?
You haven't a clue what went on that night, yet you frequently treat us to the benefit of your ill informed rants, about a situation you know absolutely nothing about.
You are about a zillion miles away from the epiphany moment that may make you a better and more informed and thoughtful human being.
June 3, 2008 9:27 AM
Hi LGC
Thanks for the report from Ironside - I actually chose that thread to read this morning on 3A's - so glad it's back again.
I've always thought that was a very strange coincidence the McCanns happened to be in the apartment owned by another McCann, because it could so easily have been one of the other Tapas friends who stayed in that particular one! I know this woman denies being a relative, but I wouldn't mind betting K&G had been there before if she is a friend of Kate's parents. Kate is not exactly known as a completely honest and up front person.
It's the same as they wouldn't comment about knowing Robert Murat, when it's so obvious they did from the Exeter connection.
Ironside is so good at digging up facts bless him.
Di -
I was reading your very interesting report about CM's addressing the journalists etc.
I wouldn't mind betting most of the audience were hand picked and that's why noone questioned him about any of the discrepancies we would and others out there had they been given the chance.
I don't care how smooth that man is I wouldn't trust him as far as I could thrown him quite frankly.
He still sounds pretty sure that his clients are going to come out of this smelling of roses though!!
Claudia -
You've probably seen 'one flew over the cuckoos nest'! Well I think by the sound of the ranting and raving from the unquenchable Rosiepops that some of them are still on the loose - talk about vampirish behaviour and she sounds completely out of her tree to me!
I think we can all see just how they are getting to despise each other these days - it's a case of birds of a feather not getting on together in my opinion!
And as for saying to Bianca how dare she call them child neglecters - well, what else would you call parents, and this includes their tapas pals, who sod off in the evenings leaving their children in bed, not just once, but on numerous occasions. Not exactly child protectors are they?
I would't go on those sites again after having visited, because the hate and venom from their mouths to all of us children supporters, and especially Viv and Docmac, is beyond imagination!
I suppose we should feel sorry for them really - the whole lot of them are going to be licking their wounds before long, and not only the wounds from each other either!
Nancy, yes, I've seen it. And you're so right.
To be honest, I just PMSL now whenever I read them! :-) The more they scream, rant, insult each other and make tantrums, the more I laugh! :-)
Cláudia,
Your post at 17.32 about people getting nervous.
__________________________
There is a saying/theory about that.
_________________________
If you have a barrel full off lobsters you don't even have to put a shell on the barrel because when one lobster try to get out of the barrel, other lobsters will pull him down.
Hi everyone,
Am reading esplendordelaforma, I still miss cuuttingtrough......
But if I'm reading esplendordelaforma right it's Diane Webster who was the "hero". The one who also wants JFM.
Fiona and the Oldfield couple had declared 3 times before that they all had checked the children on turns.
The Oldfield couple contradicts the statements of Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien.
Diane Webster never beleived the McCanns version.
The McCanns organized a secret meeting before the last interrogation in april in the UK.
Hiya all, just been attending to a little "admin". Before I read posts I would just like to say a huge thank you to loyal members of this blog who want justice for Maddie. Here are some of them below:
Stella said...
I have just found out that the server for 3A's is based in the US, now let me think, who was it that recently had to go to the States to see someone???
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 11:18:00 o'clock BST
nancy said...
Hi Mamajean -
Nice to read your posts and hope you'll come back and talk to us more often now that your back from your travels - I know Viv would love that too.
Pleased the 3A's is up and running again too - always interesting to read.
Justice for Madeleine is what we are all about and people who try to put us all down with insults will never succeed. Our priorities lie with Madeleine and other little children suffering now or who will suffer in the future, and who have parents who didn't give a damn!
Nancy x
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 13:15:00 o'clock BST
marga said...
Stella,
it was Gina!
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 13:21:00 o'clock BST
Stella said...
Marga
It scares me to think that somewhere on this planet there are a group of people just plotting to stop freedom of speech and justice. If they are prepared to burn buildings down, what else are they capable of?
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 13:29:00 o'clock BST
marga said...
Atardi,
I'm sure you will sense the same feeling in a couple of weeks:-)
xo
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 13:31:00 o'clock BST
marga said...
Stella,
don't forget they hired M3 for very suspicious reasons IMO.
Now that I have read yesterday's posts I got informed about that B Kennedy I can't avoid thinking of him like a nobody that want to be associated with people that come from other social background or a different education.
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 13:37:00 o'clock BST
Stella said...
Marga
I agree, M3 were never employed to find a missing child that's for sure??
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 13:47:00 o'clock BST
marga said...
BBFN
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 13:53:00 o'clock BST
Joe said...
I only hope that the Paynes and Webster plus the staff have put it on record, the truth of movements (or lack of in the case of Tanner) of various members of the group that night. I for one will take the report in Horas 24 with a pinch of salt for the moment.
How far the PJ will be allowed to go with this investigation is another matter, particularly if it identifies this alleged 10th Tapas and causes a diplomatic incident? What deal also would the Tapas lot get to keep quiet on the identity of this alleged 10th Tapas?
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 13:59:00 o'clock BST
Stella said...
Joe
The Tapas 9 might have sealed a pact of silence, but lets not forget there were other people staying at that resort if given photos of certain people to identify, they could easily provide the name of the person the PJ are looking for?
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 14:04:00 o'clock BST
Stella said...
Joe
The PJ could produce images of all single males passing through the airport terminal that night heading for the UK. A very easy thing to do.
Personally, I think they already know who he is.
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 14:14:00 o'clock BST
Joe said...
Stella,
I am sure you are right and it is these honest people who probably gave the PJ the believe that the Tapas were not telling the truth. Such a web of deceit and dare I say it evil and malevolence appears IMO to permeate from this whole case or maybe its just me.
The best overall view of this case so far is the " what are the chances?" by Tigger . It would make a great prosecution argument.
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 14:17:00 o'clock BST
Stella said...
Joe
Yes, the closing argument would be very clear indeed..
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 14:19:00 o'clock BST
Joe said...
Stella,
Photos at the airport, spot on Stella and also any British airport as well on landing.
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 14:21:00 o'clock BST
Stella said...
Joe
I'm guessing here, but how many flights do you think left Faro that night for the UK, one, two, three? How many of them will have had passengers travelling alone, men aged between 40-50?, not many I bet.
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 14:31:00 o'clock BST
Di said...
Hello everyone
I am not quite sure where I am supposed to be posting today.I have just read this on 3As and for those who have not yet seen it, sorry it is so long but well worth a read. Posted by Interzone.......
I had a free morning so trotted along to this. I must say I found the experience extremely illuminating and am very glad I made the trip.
Leeds Business Week was being held in the Town Hall. There were a number of stalls as you might find at a trade fair. Clarence's talk was in a back room. Very few of the staff and officials dotted around seemed to know it was happening, or who he was. They were more aware of the talk's title: Managing PR in a crisis.
Around a couple of dozen - certainly no more, surprisingly - people were seated in the room. Most were there in a business capacity. Judging by a show of hands 60% were in PR themselves. I suspect I was the only "interloper".
Clarence was warmly received. As he gathered his material, people muttered about the case - stuff like "I hope she's never found, the state she must be in now" etc. I got the impression most present believed Madeleine was dead, but nobody audibly suspected the parents.
Clarence wore a dark suit and dark shirt, which gave him a more sombre look that usual. I was taken aback by the difference between the man before us and the man in the photo behind him from May 2007. The case has visibly aged him: he has less hair than a year ago and a considerable bald patch which is never seen on camera. He spoke firmly - with his usual "I'd love to say more but I can't" type quips - and I must say extremely eloquently.
He began with a sermon on PR. In a crisis - he said - the first thing to do is establish the truth of the situation (almost like a defence lawyer might say "Look, did you do it or what? I need to know"). Then engage rapidly with the media... He stated that there is no such thing as off the record.... everything you say is likely to end up in print. Intriguingly, he advised against using legal action unless as a last resort. With the Express, they'd had two meetings with the editor before sueing over stories reproduced from Portugal. He pointed out how the negative press had greatly reduced since the Express damages - which topped up the Fund by half a million. "Due to their own stupidity."
Clarence said that the golden rules of PR were "never become the story" and "never lie or distort". Inaccuracies should be rebutted. He used the example of the claim that gerry was not the father of Madeleine - one of the major stories they went for the Express over. They produced written proof this was an untrue story. Forums were mentioned quite early on. CM suggested "they are not as anonymous as they think" and hinted at possible action at a later stage. If I were a betting man I wouldn't hold my breath, but you never know i guess.
Intriguingly he was happy to admit the gulf in public opinion over the McCanns, and the differing views of their parenting methods. I got the distinct impression that despite what he has said about "responsible parenting" this man would not do the same with his own children. He then spoke about how he had "spoken to" various columnists when they had been a bit anti-McCann and they had come round... obviously not Jon Gaunt (who was not mentioned). CM said he must always be available (my note - not to Jon Gaunt, who has repeatedly tried to get him back on the air).
He spoke a bit about the events of May 3. According to CM, it was the family, not the McCanns themselves, who got everything going. Jon Corner emerged as the key player, emailing pictures of Madeleine to the BBC within a very short time of the disappearance.
He then mentioned how the pressure for stories was so great that journalists would gather in a bar with alcoholo and free wi-fi to file whatever they could. "All that stuff about the blood" was apparently "made up." He said that even if the McCanns face charges there is "no evidence.... we know that." He then said that an arguido is not a suspect but someone "of interest to the investigation", which seemed a bit disingenuous. There were audible sighs of sympathy when he mentioned journos camping on the doorstep in Rothley - this no longer happens.
He mentioned Jane Tanner's sighting and said that they were still looking for bundleman, whose face appeared onscreen, to no audible titters. He brought up the supposed "show no emotion" police advice and said that Kate "doesn't recognise" the cold individual she appears in those early interviews. I got the distinct impression the ITV docu was specifically made to counter this cold image - CM said that since it aired they had had thousands of emails of support. Including new sightings... He said they had avoided Oprah "for now", because of the "showbiz aspect."
One of the more interesting sections for me began when he was asked questions about his role. He said very clearly that he was briefed from the foreign office very early on that this was a case of "rare stranger abduction", which contradicts what has been reported from Sheree Dodd. He also said that he was similarly tipped off very early on re Shannon Matthews, hence the McCanns "did not touch with a bargepole." Contrasted with this they used images of Maria Luz on McCann posters because they "wanted to help the family". (Nothing about wanting to give an impression of a serial abductor on the loose).
Somebody asked what it was about this case which had prompted CM to give up a highly paid job in the government to work for a family he didn't know, and who would have been out of work had Madeleine turned up the following week. "Good question," he said, explaining that during the month in portugal working for the government he had become taken by the McCanns' plight and tearful calls at 4am. At the same time there were developments in his job/office at the MMU which he didn't like - he didn't specify what they were - so he was perhaps looking to jump ship. Brian Kennedy offered to match the package he was on at the government, which I found highly illuminating. Effectively I would think that this means that if Madeleine turned up tomorrow CM would be on - perhaps - a three year contract or whatever, including pension, perhaps. CM cannot lose.
He did say that he had become "friends" with Kate and Gerry but noticeably said that as a PR you also have to "keep a distance." Which was fascinating, to me. CM is clearly an intelligent man, and despite his claims to "have never heard anything, or seen anything" to make him doubt the McCanns story, which may well be true. But I would be amazed if he had never - not even for a second at 1am - had his own unanswered questions.
What came across very strongly is that despite the occasionally bumbling public image Clarence is an extremely good PR. The "distance" line said a lot for me. If the McCanns are never charged, or Madeleine is found, he will emerge as a hero. If they are charged, and found guilty, the 'distance' will become greater... but CM will point out how he successfully media-managed the shining halo of a guilty couple. In other words, he did his job. Unless CM has not been as careful in his job as he was in this talk, he will come out smelling of roses whatever happens. As to his future, he confirmed that he had had a request from the woman whose daughter was killed in Goa, and suggested that eventually he will develop other clients.
Another thing he mentioned was that every time he says anything remotely unsupportive of the PJ it prompts a "diplomatic incident." He also said that there are things "down the line" that will cause "things to flare up again." I took this as indication of forthcoming revelations, or perhaps charges.
The atmosphere was warm and respectful. Nobody asked "Did they do it then guv?" or asked difficult questions relating to the investigation eg the shutters - they would not have been answered, and any cover would have been blown... but this was a fascinating 90 minute glimpse into some of the thinking behind the McCanns and their very public "spokesman."
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 14:53:00 o'clock BST
Stella said...
Viv
I agree, there has to be some significance to Clarence quoting Rachel Oldfield was in 5b all night on the 2nd. I started a thread on 3A's and so far no one has any explanation or anything to confirm who was actually staying there. Very interesting.
Just like your son, I too had thought about a pay as you go phone. If you have seen the film The Bourne Ultimatum, Jason was being chased through Victoria Train Station and he bought a pay as you go phone at the station, so as not to be traced making a call. This brings us to a few questions.
1. Why would any of the group have a pay as you go phone?
2. If someone needed to buy one to avoid being traced, at what time did it first used? Only on the day, or only started the day before?
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 15:01:00 o'clock BST
Stella said...
Di
Thanks for the info, so Clarence sees himself as the next Max Clifford..........ha ha ha
Why would the woman in Goa need his help??
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 15:34:00 o'clock BST
Di said...
Stella
Exactly. I particularly like his comments "never become the story" never lie or distort"
Practice what you preach comes to mind :o)
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 16:19:00 o'clock BST
bath theory said...
I have a diploma in Public Relations having worked in marketing before teaching and Clarence is no PR man. He is a stoodge that recognises an opportunity that should be a win win one for him.
His contacts and dirty tricks learnt at the COI have made him a force and contacts of Brian Kennedy from Leicestershire's premier toff school and scottish rugby + obscene wealth have given the McCanns a chance to get away with it that others would not have.
That is why Gerry was so damn smug. He had all angles covered in his brain. Political contacts, media contacts, loads of money and rent a thugs on salaries. No wonder he could run on the beach so freely when you or I would be doubled up in tears on a bed.
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 19:25:00 o'clock BST
bath theory said...
The 2 judges I know are 'very close' to the Lord Chief Justice and I am sure we all have similar contacts so if they want to play games with us as it gets to a dangerous point I say bring it on.
WE SHALL OVERCOME + JUSTICE FOR MADDIE
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 19:28:00 o'clock BST
Atardi, I had heard that saying. And you're so right.
Hi, Viv! :-)
Hiya Claudia and Atardi
WE SHALL OVERCOME
JUSTICE FOR MADDIE XXXXXX
Hello Viv
Re PAYG Phones even if they are not registered they can still be traced and every call made and text message etc can still be seen by the service provider.
Years ago when they first came out I worked for Vodafone now if someone has not registered a phone it would be dificult to trace them. But there would be a record of every number that phone had called and if that important the police could contact the people called and no doubt they would have the name of the person who's number it is stored in their phone. So although dificult to trace it is not imposible.
One of my team had an abusive call from a husband who was in court for harasing his soon to be ex wife he was hysterical because he belived his PAYG phone would not show all the numbers he had dialled and what had been text to his wife. This was about 9 years ago and technology has come on a long way in that time xxx
Hiya Hope
As you say there are many unregistered pay as you go mobiles that are not registered to the lawful owner and are impossible to trace. Clearly PJ did trace all other callers with properly registered phones, including of course Kate and Gerry McCann's.
Those with a criminal intent would not wish to be traced. What cannot be traced is the person who was texting Gerry McCann on 2 and 4 May a total of 18 times. We can see why this investigation is ongoing to locate this person.
Viv x
Cláudia,
As you know my English is not so good. If you have a better theory/translation of the lobsters in a barrel you mau publish it.
Because I think that's what happenning now. Also with the Tapas 9/10.
Cláudia, have you ever heard about a towel being found?
I have mentioned it before but according to Alsabella there was no towel found.
And here it's been mentioned times and times again.
This year both my sons had ear operations. When one was in the hearing booth with my wife I was watching outside with the operator. The man said to my wife could you give your mobile to your husband as it is interfering with the results. He explained the mobile is always searching for the signals. Apparently this is what caught out Huntley wasn't it.
I am sure this 'mystery' person who Gerry was liaising with is not a 'mystery' person to the police involved with the case. I am sure the Leicestershire Police have already got it from GCHQ.
Atardi, your translation was great! :-)
To be honest, I haven't heard anything about that here. Some of the more weird stuff I read was on British media. It may be just a rumour.
Claudia
Do you know if Amaral is advising or acting as a consultant on the case or is he very much out of it because of his 'retirement'
+ How is his book coming along?
Bath Theory, those are two very interesting questions I cannot answer! :-)
Gonçalo Amaral is not retired yet. As for the book, ;-)
Hope and Viv,
I have sent you both a mail.
About the telephone records. We all know by now that the PJ wants a watertight case. We already knew about the phone records.
__________________________________
I have been reading the last year about the liars. And this is one article. It's good to read back.
__________________________________
Mystery of Madeleine parents' secret emails 'intercepted by police'
________________________________
Hi Atardi
I am fine thanks...
I keep loosing my posts...
How are you xxx
I think people are losing it and taking things too far. I've just read a poster who calls himself/herself "Rosiepops is a cow". Isn't this a bit too much? How unfair is that? What did the poor cow do to be compared to Rosiepoophead?
Hey Hope,
Had the same problem.
Been very busy the last days.
Marga,
Four weeks to go now. I will survive.
Hi Cláudia & all,
Cláudia, poor cow!Lolol
Leigh,
I was not ridiculing Chinadoll. I said she must feel lonely posting late at night. If you want to read and learn about "argumentum ad hominem" I could recommend at least 3 other sites to you but I'm sure you are familiar with them already.
"Stoop to conquer?" I live in the 21st century, so I don't understand the 18th century undertones in this phrase that well.
In any event, you asked why an 'educated doctor' would do this. Because I have higher moral values than the doctors that these people worship? Because I care about children? Because my kids can actually depend on me to look after them? Because Madeleine and I share(d) a birthday? Because I'm tired of the blatant ad hominem-inspired libel and defamation that the pinksters spout?
No hard feelings, no. You are only part of the world weird web, just like Chinadoll.
Ana, as you know, I love animals and I am deeply offended that someone had the nerve to compare a cow with Rosiepoohead. :-)
Hiya Atardi and thanks for the article from This is London which is so helpful I thought I would reproduce it here. What I cannot reproduce is the picture of Rachel Oldfield looking utterly horrified and Fiona Payne looking relaxed and happy. This picture was taken in July. We now know exactly why Rachel looked so horrified because she left her one year old baby completely alone, night after night, what a cow!
I think the PJ did intercept these calls and messages and so they know for a fact Madeleine died but the Judge has rendered this evidence inadmissible because they did not seek concurrent permission from a judge to do this. No matter they will not give up on prosecuting them for what they know happened. If that means they just go ahead with neglect charges to make sure they get done, so be it!
Mystery of Madeleine parents' secret emails 'intercepted by police'
Last updated at 08:52am on 09.08.07
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The friends who were with Madeleine McCann's parents on the night she disappeared have tried to shake off a growing whispering campaign against them.
They have spoken out after a Portuguese newspaper claimed police had 'intercepted' emails and phone calls between Kate and Gerry McCann and their friends.
These, the newspaper reported, provided 'decisive proof' that Madeleine was not kidnapped, but died in the family's holiday apartment in Portugal.
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Anger over rumours: Kate McCann and Gerry McCann pictured with their twins, hidden by the pushchair canopy
Diario de Noticias, a respected national daily, said 'police sources' insisted the intercepted 'messages' were key evidence.
Other newspapers have already made a series of lurid and unsubstantiated claims about the McCanns.
Yesterday, stung by such claims, their friend Rachael Oldfield, a 36-year- old London recruitment consultant, suggested the police could be 'leaking' confidential information to the Press.
"I think there are some leaks coming from the police, but a lot of what I have read recently has been completely untrue," she said.
"Whether a journalist has had a bit of information and made the rest up, or the police are feeding some truth or untruths I just don't know."
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Rachael Oldfield and Fiona Payne who were with the McCanns in Portugal
Another of the party, Dr Fiona Payne, said: "You cannot attach any significance to what is being reported (in the Portuguese press)."
Mrs Oldfield, who is married to doctor Matthew Oldfield and has a one-year-old daughter, said: "It is very hurtful and it is all rather ludicrous. But it is difficult to defend because the investigationand everything in it is confidential. We don't want to jeopardise the investigation in any way or Madeleine's life. We are a bit stuck, really."
The Oldfields were at dinner with the McCanns and the rest of their party, Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien from Exeter, Fiona and David Payne from Leicester and an unnamed woman, when Madeleine vanished from her bed in the holiday apartments in Praia da Luz on May 3.
The adults told police they had taken it in turns to check on their sleeping children, including Madeleine and her twoyearold twin brother and sister, in nearby apartments.
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The McCanns during their interview on Sky News said that they would not comment on any speculation regarding Madeleine's disappearance
Madeleine has been missing for three months
In statements to the Policia Judiciaria investigators, which were leaked to Sol magazine, Mr McCann said he first checked his three children at 9.05pm and thought it 'strange' that the bedroom door was ajar. He checked the window and shutters, which were both closed, and left.
Jane Tanner said she took her turn ten minutes later and saw a darkhaired man carrying a child in his arms as she came back.
Minutes after her return, according to police statements, Matthew Oldfield checked the children and noticed nothing unusual.
Mrs McCann went at 10pm and said she found the apartment window open, heavy metal shutters raised and her daughter missing.
Police say there are discrepancies between the timings given by the McCann party and staff and other diners in the restaurant that night.
One Portuguese newspaper yesterday, which quoted 'police sources', said: "If everything happened as the English holidaymakers say, in terms of their checking the children, it would be almost impossible for a kidnap to have taken place."
Mrs Oldfield said: "There would only be a small window for somebody to do it (abduct Madeleine), but presumably if somebody had been watching our movements then it would have been possible."
The McCanns, who on Tuesday denied stories in the Portuguese press that implied they had 'accidentally' killed their daughter, spent an hour with detectives yesterday afternoon.
They learned that a possible sighting of Madeleine in a Belgian cafe had been largely discounted after tests on a drinking straw used by the little girl spotted showed the DNA of an adult male.
Reader views (44)
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Here's a sample of the latest views published.
It looks increasable likely to me that the Portuguese Police suspect the McCanns (albeit murder or covering up an accident) and are waiting to gather enough info before charging them.
With all the media publicity surrounding this, they cannot afford to be wrong and on the end of a worldwide media bashing.
- R Hamilton, Wishaw, North Lanarkshire
Many children go missing every year. It is sad that only the disappearance of a white middle class child has generated public interest in an admittedly sad but unremarkable story. Hopefully she will be found alive but whatever the outcome the parents will live to reget the media circus they have been responsible for creating and sustaining.
- Peter White, Bath, UK
Why don't the Portuguese do their job and find out what happened to this wee girl. It is shocking how the Portuguese police seem to be leading and playing the blame game to shift criticism from them, first to an innocent British citizen, and more recently the parents and even their friends.
- Dr. Christopher Wood, Cardiff,
These reports smack of the Portuguese press trying to re-invigorate the story for the sake of sales. The language being used is inflammatory and unnecessary. The family are already suffering beyond what most of us can imagine. If these reports are not based on solid forensic evidence the press should not be allowed to publish this kind of irresponsible conjecture for the publics' titilation.
- A Maxfield, Watford Hertfordshire
Anyone who has followed this heart-rendering tragedy and watched Kate and Gerry speak from the heart will like me be unable to believe that they had anything to do with Maddie's disappearance. Hang in there Gerry and Kate - the thoughts and prayers of millions of us are with you now more than ever.
- Trevor Roll, London
All my sympathies lie with little Madeleine and the Portuguese police are doing an excellent job under the criticism they have been under. Well done to the Portuguese police.
- Pauline Higgins., Liverpool England
The blood hasn't even been tested yet. It could be anyone's. And even if it were Madeleine's - such a tiny amount of blood doesn't point automatically to murder - it could be an accident.
- Manon, London, UK
Obviously the media should focus on finding out the truth, instead of attacking the Portugese and hindering the investigation by turning it into a political matter.
- Tom, Portsmouth
Why are the Portuguese media doing this to the McCanns? It seems strange that they have started to attack the McCanns. Are the Portuguese reacting to the criticism levelled at their Police? If so, don't take it out on the parents. Madeline went missing in their country, that is fact, laying blame will not help Madeline's return. The Portuguese police have stated they have limited resources, therefore assistance from the British police has arrived. The limited resources are not the fault of the McCanns, so leave them alone.
- Karen, London UK
Has anyone thought that perhaps the bloood on the wall had been there from before the McCann's arrived at the apartment? The modern techniques that are used to detect blood spatters at crime scenes can pick up minute traces of blood from months before. Perhaps a previous tourist in that room had an accident of some kind and tried to wipe up the mess.
- Bridget, Woking, UK
My thoughts are with the parents and families of all missing children. I can not begin to understand the amount of anguish they are all suffering. Newspapers that make definite statements without facts being confirmed only add to this anguish. How on earth can papers report that poor Maddy is dead and actually died in that bedroom, when it has not even been confirmed that the blood found was Maddy's?
Please stop adding anguish on these poor parents.
- Terri, Bexleyheath, Kent
I just wish people could put as much effort into trying to find Madeleine as they do offering self-righteous opinions on their superior childcare and supervision skills. Such insensitivity beggars belief.
- Claire, East London
The Portuguese police investigation has been a disaster from the start and its woeful inadequacy is probably the reason that Madeleine is still missing. Vital clues were lost at the beginning as the crime scene was not properly sealed off. They put their own pride above finding Maddie by only inviting an outside review after all this time.
- Nicky, London
I don't see how anyone could think that the parents would have anything to do with this! They are doctors, they were with other doctors. Their first instinct, if an accident would have happened, would be to treat her. They went through IVF and waited 5 years for her. You only have to see from all the photos they took of her and their extended family how much this little girl is loved. This is just a ludricous smear to deflect criticism from the bungled police investigation. Also, a few spots of blood on a wall hardly justifies the recent reports and headlines, it could be anybody's.
- M, Bedford
God bless Maddy the whole wide world is thinking about you, our thoughts and prayers are with the whole of the McCann family.
- Sarah, uk
I am so very sad about this little girl and watch the news for any fresh info. I have just travelled through France and Spain in a campervan and have her posters in the windows of the van. I have put her posters in petrol stations, picnic areas and supermarkets but she is still not found.
Whoever has taken Maddy let her go she is too small to remember you.
- Ann Preston, Tyne & Wear, England
It's horrible to even think that she may not be found alive.
With every report that comes out, I pray it's a step closer to finding her alive.
I also think it's important before everyone starts pointing the finger of blame to take a step back and think about what has actually happened.
A 4 year old little girl has been apart from her Mummy and Daddy for 3 months, in a strange place and whatever has happened to her in that time, she must be terrified.
- Siobhan, Essex
For those who are supporting the Portugese police I have one question for you: If they are so good, then why were they filmed chatting and letting all those cars drive out of the country, when they were clearly told to search every single car on the border? If they had done their jobs we would at least know what country she was in!
- Rachel, London
If the Portuguese Police told people what was going on, they would very quickly reveal their utter incompetence.
- Frank, Home Counties, England
It looks to me like the Portuguese police are chasing their tails. They handled this case badly from the beginning. They don't know yet whether the blood was Maddy's and they can't assume that she died from any injuries that she may have sustained from the abduction.
They haven't had the results back from the DNA tests from the sighting in Belgium yet - who knows, it could have been her. Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic.
- Diana, Edinburgh
I think little Maddy is still alive, I just feel it, I hope everybody's prayers that Madeleine will be returned will be answered.
- Kristina, Ireland
It is truly shocking the amount of speculation that is going on regarding this case. No one knows anything much. It is partly the Portuguese police's fault. If they gave proper press briefings and were a bit more professional (there is obviously a paid police informer who is tipping the press off) they would be more in control of what is said to the public. This does not bode well for any future prosecution(s). It is also very distressing to read some of the bizarre comments/theories made about the McCann family and friends on some of these forums.
- M, Bedford
My heart goes out to the McCann family who have borne enough innuendo and insinuations in their search for their missing daughter. The media should allow the police to do their duty and stop the speculation without concrete evidence.
- Michael Goodman, Golders Green
I have said all along that there is something very strange about this case. Firstly, if the parents were checking every 30 mins how can someone unknowningly go into an apartment and abduct a child?
It seems odd that an abductor would take the time to clean the walls and hide the evidence.
I think there is something more sinister in this case, I just hope I'm wrong.
- Greg, Watford, UK
I pray that Madeleine will be found safe and uninjured. There are so many questions in this case, not only about the night of May 3rd, but also about the parents. For example, the distance from the apartment to the tapas bar has been reported as 130 yards, 100 yards, 40 yards, and even 20 yards (Kate interview at the weekend). There are conflicting reports from the parents and their friends as to when and how often they went to "check" on the children. Time for some very firm, objective investigative reporting please. God bless all missing persons.
- Bentley Simons, UK
If (and at the time of writing its still an IF) the blood is the missing child's then I would imagine that the focus of the investigation will shift to the events of the evening it happened and to those who had access to the room and time/materials to clean it.
How long a gap was there between the disappearance and the initial police arrival?
I too am dismayed by the continual implied criticism of the Portugese police. After all our own police are infallible aren't they ...
Birmingham 6, Stefan Kiszko, Bridgewater 3, the de Menendez shooting, etc
- Charlie, Lancashire
There should be a European Special Police Investigations Unit. Cases like this need expertise immediately. I know we have Interpol, but we don't have a dedicated murder/abduction team, that can fly out immediately and share resources and intelligence. In short, professionals.
Time is vital in investigations like this. Some of the police work has been woeful.
- Paul, Bromley
One of the things that makes Portuguese Police so good is that they care way more about the investigation than about media. Secrecy is very important on these matters and we probably know nothing about what's going on really.
- J.A., Scotland
Someone in the middle of hurriedly abducting Madeleine would not bother to take the time to wash blood off the wall. If it is her blood, then you have to ask who would?
- Daizy, N England
The Portuguese police have done all they can with their resources. The blood was invisible to the human eye for goodness sake.
- Rachel, London
I once worked in a holiday apartment complex abroad and pretty much every apartment had blood on the wall that had to be cleaned up from squashed mosquitos that people had squashed after being bitten. Just a thought..
- Ara, London, UK
It's sad to see how the Portuguese police is seen throughout this news article. They are doing an excellent job, and they do not have dogs trained to carry out this job mainly due to the fact that there is no need to do that in Portugal in comparison with the UK, where these type of incidents tend to happen very often.
- Incredible, London UK
Since day one I have followed the horrific Madeleine story and I really hope that either the blood on the wall of the apartment or the DNA results from Belguim gives a lead on finding Madeleine McCann. Nobody deserves to be put through the process of the possibility of losing a child this way. I really do feel for her parents.
- Beth Lewis, Swansea UK
If I asked you to retrace your steps in an enormous sandy desert would you walk back exactly the same way as you came? If I asked you to find a valuable ring, which you had inadvertantly dropped in the hot sand whilst on a day out, would you be able to retrieve it?
Our world is as enormous as the desert you visited, so how on earth would you set about locating one specific grain of sand in that vast area, if that grain of sand were to represent the poor little girl called Maddy who was abducted recently?
You would not know where to start. You could look across all four points of the compass through hundreds of miles of rolling dunes and you would never come any closer to locating her whereabouts.
Maddy has disappeared like a grain of sand into the desert. If you believe in miracles then you should only praise the police for what they have done already with the information they have at hand. Those members of the public who are quick to criticise the actions of the force should try finding that grain of sand themselves.
- Antoni Nowakowski, London UK
Despite very horrified at the case, I'm sorry for all the criticism of Portuguese police and media. I've lived here since I was ten, and this case has outraged the natives. The police are trying hard to end this and find answers; people seem to forget that this is not England, the police are not as well equipped and there are not as many people qualified to investigate. They're trying their hardest and that's the most they can do. This new development will hopefully not mean poor Maddie is dead, and the only thing we can do is cross our fingers and hope.
- Xana, Portimao, Portugal
At this time, I would ask everyone who cares to assume she is still alive, until officially stated otherwise, and to pray for her, for her mind, her body and her spirit. Please remember, others are so very concerned about her, about her pain, her fears, her confusion and so on.
- Mrs N C Hern, London UK
First of all this blood could belong to anyone who has used the apartment during its existence. Secondly even if it is Maddy's and it does appear that someone has tried to clean it, haven't all parents at one time or another had to deal with a child's nosebleed, fall, cut, etc and wouldn't you also clean up any blood? My own children have all at various time suffered nosebleeds and in trying to deal with it themselves left bloody fingerprints, smears on walls etc, which I've had to clean. So I really don't see how this is going to help matters at all unless of course Maddy's parents can catagorically state that Maddy didn't suffer any blood loss of any kind whilst they were there.
- Dawn Smith, Walsall, UK
I am deeply saddened with this fresh news. Our thoughts and prayers are with the McCann family.
- Murali Mohan, Maida Vale, London
It's really frustrating that a British detective who worked on the Sarah Payne case & is an expert in child abduction cases, who visited the scene of the Madeleine enquiry in its early days, - recommended that the Madeleine case should be reviewed by the British specialist detectives & sniffer dogs brought in, 2 weeks into the case.
I simply can't believe that Portuguese forensics didn't show up Madeleine's blood on the walls earlier - if it's true that is.
- Manon, London, UK
Everyone is very quick to criticise the Portuguese police about their lack of progress and results, but how long did it take our police to find the bodies of Ian Huntley's victims? We shouldn't be so quick to judge - we don't know the facts but we're all very good at jumping on the bandwagon and pointing the finger. It's a terrible world we live in and the thought of what could have happened to Maddie makes your blood run cold - but let's let the professionals get on with their job and we can carry on sending our love and support to Maddie's parents.
- Hilary, Stockport, UK
Please God find this little girl. Lead police to the person/people responsible for her abduction. Reveal the truth to all concerned and bring justice to her family.
- A Christian, Newtownabbey, N Ireland
I am sure that everything is being in the the correct way, but it does seem very belated - we are nearly 100 days on and only just are the police searching their main suspect's home and gardens. Because nothing is seemingly found, we are now told that a second suspect is now being sought - maybe that is because Murat is not the one and they cannot find anything on, or that this second person might be the owner of the mystery DNA found in the apartment. I for one am very frustrated by the lack of evidence in this crime, I cannot imagine being the parent and also having to suffer this frustration. Let's hope that this second suspect does something to allow the police to arrest and put this whole thing to an end. I really hope that it allows Madeleine to be found safe and well.
- Rachel, Orpington
God bless her but I can't help but feel that this high profile campaign will make Madeleine more vulnerable. If anyone has got her then they may do something awful. I feel so sad that we live in a world where a beautiful little girl is abducted and it doesn't bear thinking about what may have happened to her. With lots of love and support for her parents.
- Jo Wood. London, London
I pray that this little girl defies all odds and is still alive and well. Whoever took her that night needs to come forward now because the police will uncover the truth. This particular case will not go unsolved because of the enormous attention it's received. I have always thought that more than one person was involved in Madeleine's abduction. Let's hope that the case gets solved this week. Keep strong Kate and Gerry, your campaign is working. God bless and protect your daughter.
- M, UK
Hallo Docmac,
Eindelijk kom ik jou tegen.
Hoe is het met de kinderen?
Cláudia, agree !
Where have you seen that?
Ana, on Bianca's aka Children Deserve Protection's blog...
Hello Atardi
My eie kinders is gesond, dankie. By die werk gaan dit nie baie lekker oor die laaste paar dae nie.
Nice to see you too.
Hi guys
Someone ought to have asked CM at that meeting, what has changed and the McCann's don't want to clear their names as he had stated back last December:"They will do anything necessary if it helps them move on and be eliminated as suspects." The story is here: CM 5 December 2007
I am a big fan of CSI and I reckon it is the only thing I have in common with Gerry McCann apart from a low class background growing up. Anyway, the last few words of the one I have just watched said this
...A moral compass can only point you in the right direction it cannot make you go there.
By the way does anyone know the name of the police manual/book he is meant to have taken on holiday.
Well, Cláudia,can you give me the address, please?
I want to see that animal abuser poster, with my own eyes!:)
Bath Theory, I believe it was 'No Stone Unturned'...
Ana, darling, have fun! :-)
http://my-say-okay.blogspot.com/
Hiya Doc and thanks for such a heart-rending but beautiful post. Just like me, I know you love your kids more than anything and when your kids are older, just like my own are now, you will always be there for them, every time they need you, just like I still am, currently helping my eldest son, aged 34 in every possible way I can. This is what we have against the McCanns and their friends, who never behaved like decent parents, let alone doctors. I also echo your sentiments about those who are part of the "world weird web"
Some of us will always put children first!
Luv Viv x
docmac said...
Leigh,
I was not ridiculing Chinadoll. I said she must feel lonely posting late at night. If you want to read and learn about "argumentum ad hominem" I could recommend at least 3 other sites to you but I'm sure you are familiar with them already.
"Stoop to conquer?" I live in the 21st century, so I don't understand the 18th century undertones in this phrase that well.
In any event, you asked why an 'educated doctor' would do this. Because I have higher moral values than the doctors that these people worship? Because I care about children? Because my kids can actually depend on me to look after them? Because Madeleine and I share(d) a birthday? Because I'm tired of the blatant ad hominem-inspired libel and defamation that the pinksters spout?
No hard feelings, no. You are only part of the world weird web, just like Chinadoll.
Tuesday, 3 June 2008 21:43:00 o'clock BST
Hi BT,
"No Stone Unturned"-Steve Jackson's book
Claudia... is 'No stone unturned' a police manual or fictional book and do you have an ISBN number?
Good evening!
Atardi,
most of the schools here also have more 3/4 weeks.
That news about the towel was being discussed in the DM forum on the same day it was closed.
Cláudia,
Thank you Hun!:)
I will take a look...
Thanks Ana was Steve Jackson a policeman. And might I ask if you have the ISBN number too?
Doc,
Ja ik heb het gelezen dat het met de het kind op je werk vreselijk was. Het doet altijd pijn als een kind het niet redt.
Ik zal Viv vragen om jou mijn e-mail adres te geven.
Maar je moet wel iets herkenbaars noteren.
Ik heb je eerder verteld over Nederlandse berichten over Madeleine, maar ik ben voorzichtig.
Niet iedereen hoeft mijn e-mail adres te hebben.
Je verwachtte ook een nieuwe kaas, is het al gebeurd?
Hoe zit het met Southerncross?
Ik vond het altijd leuk om haar te lezen.
Bath Theory,
http://www.amazon.ca/No-Stone-Unturned-Steve-Jackson/dp/0786015772
Ana, you're welcome!
One comment I would love to watch CM spin.
It seems odd that an abductor would take the time to clean the walls and hide the evidence.
I think there is something more sinister in this case, I just hope I'm wrong.
- Greg, Watford, UK
BT,
No Stone Unturned: The True Story of the World's Premier Forensic Investigators (Paperback)
You can by it here
Hiya all
Whilst it is an amazing coincidence that there is a book called leaving no stone unturned about how to dispose of bodies I think we should be careful here because what we were told the police found in the McCann villa in August that was very incriminating was a police manual on criminal law and procedure - clearly not normal holiday reading.
I just dont think it can categorically be said this is what police found, but they did find a book that was very damaging for the McCanns.
Ooops- Buy not by!Lol
I found the JT´s abductor here!
Viv, check your mail.
Atardi I will e-mail you if I get your address, no problem. I do understand most of what I read in Hollands, but I am expecting a new cheese? lol!
Regarding Southerncross, I have no idea. I know she wants desperately to return home to SA for a visit, but she has not posted on here for a while now. I enjoy her posts too.
Claudia y Ana
Soy una gota de agua felice
:)
Ana, lolololololol
How the hell did you find that? lololol
HEy guys
Does anyone know if GM got elected on the BSCMR board?
Bath Theory :-)
Thanks Marga,
Will send the translation to Viv in case...........
Viv, I want to contact Zodiac and Docmac.
Because of a diet for Zodiac and for Docmac because I want to be be a cleaner also from what happenned on the 3rt of may 2007.
Cláudia, you know, according with the JT´s description, I was able to do a search in to the web and voilá, I found him!
2+2=22! Lolol
So Viv, are you saying that we have not really been told/leaked what the manual found in the villa was called or indeed what its core subject matter was?
Ana,
LOL
quite apropriate that one "to put money on my pocket"!!!
Read you all tomorrow!
Cláudia, Atardi : :-)
Marga, see you tomorrow!
Ana, lolololol
Ana thanks for the fabulous electronic gig, laughed me flipping socks off:-))))) and he is pretty cute too xxxxxx
An abductor and a youtube artist! :-)
Marga,
Queridinha, boa noite!:)
Hiya Doc,
thanks for your mail, I think we come to the same opinion of "same".
xxxxxxxxxx
Before I go I would like to ask you all posters here especially the British ones a question related to that top Kate is wearing on the above picture.
Do you have any idea if it could have been purchased before summer 07? It might be a silly question but all that showoof with the green/yellow colours sounds weird to me. How can a mother think of all that combinations of colours and other marketing strategies when she should be supposed to be grieving?
Evening All.
First of all, Doc. I apologise if I offended you. That was not my intention. I wondered why Chinadoll was singled out for ridicule. BTW, I look at Viv's blog, 3As, and mccannfiles when I get the chance. I only see the extreme ad hominem sites when they are mentioned here.
Clearly, you suspect my motives. How odd, given that my priorities have consistently focused on these issues: child welfare, honest inquiry by the police and others, free speech, within the constraints of libel law.
Free speech is open to all, as far as I'm aware, particularly when a contentious issue is being discussed.
Viv,
Good luck with your blog.
I've always believed that we will see Justice for Maddie, one way or another, and I've always encouraged others to seek the truth, wherever it may be.
I hope other vulnerable children may one day enjoy the public's vociferous support, and practical help.
Justice for Maddie, and all children, in time, however long it takes...I hope.
Night all. Boa noite Portugal. Goedonavond Atardi. Buonna notte, Dolores of the pink rose, y buenos noches Espagna.
xo
leigh
*off
Ana,
loved that queridinha...
Obrigada.
I'll read your answers to my question tomorrow. I'm really knackered!
"to put money on my pocket"
He is so cute (the abductor) and so appropriate! LOLOL
Hiya Leigh
Is there some reason why you mention libel in almost every post you write?
Given the incredible abuse Chinadoll has written about me and Docmac I am struggling as to why you should think it would be unreasonable to even mention her.
Viv x
Hello dear friends
Wow, what a roller coaster ride re the 3A's! So glad that the forum is back and functioning despite some low threats and blackmail .Thanks RAT for keeping us informed about the status!
I see Rosiepops is also a member there now lol(ek wonder wie was stout met die naamkeuse, wou my doodlag!hi my vriend:))
Viv, Joana also posted an excellent
translation re the three "willing and more truthful"tapasniks that seems to contradict the official version.
Viv,
I would like to mail to Docmac and Zodiac.
Can you send them both my address.
Hi Mariana,
Re: Gerry election
Is not known yet!
Thank you Ana
Hiya Southerncross and lovely to see you back again.
I am very much reliant on Joana for some of the great articles and translations she produced and will go and have a look at that which may form a new post!
Mariana, lovely to see you back as well my friend.
Viv x
Atardi
I will try and sort out the mail request for you - Doc and Zodiac.
Viv x
Hi SC. Coming home soon? Is Rosie a member at 3A? I have never seen her post and she is certainly not looking in at the moment. Where are you? I'm here at the moment:
IP Address : 82.146.60.243
Location : RUSSIAN FEDERATION
Hi Viv
Thank you, good to see you too.
You know I rely on Joana's posts a lot. Isn't she doing a great job?
She is an artist, yet she has become a citizen journalist. Amazing.
Mariana,
You are welcome! :)
But hey, they have Madeleine picture on theirs front page!
BSCMR
Thank you Viv,
Because of certain commitments I am not able to post here as frequently (and with specific info ) as I would like to do.
Thanking you again and enjoy reading your posts. Lovely reading you all again. Hiya Atardi and Doc if you are still here :)
Ana
Yes I have noticed Madeleine's picture. I would like to know who the heck pulls all the strings for GM.
Mariana,
Me too!
Have you all, ever seen an Bollywood picture?
Thanks Ana
Bollywood for Clarrie? lol, fantastic.
Hiya Doc
Yes as expected not showing online status there, no contribution, pm etc. Slim keuse lol.Stoute foto though
Hi SC
I think you may be surprised to know who 'Rosiepops' is on the3arguidos. I just got back on the starlight express from Russia. Wanneer kom jy huistoe?
Doc, ek weet :)That is why I hinted lol
171 days and then I shall see my beloved country again. Take care and lekker slaap
SC
Desember? Lekka Kaapse weer daai tyd!
Mooi slaap.
Hey guys
CNN: Obama is about to make history. He needs another 10 delegates for the democratic nomination.
Hi Mariana
"Hillary is OUT of the race for the White House as votes from superdelegates seal it for Obama."
(Daily Mail headline)
Mariana,
Great news! I was not watching.
10 delegates or 10 superdelegates?
Thanks.
Hi Docmac, Ana,
Just 10 delegates, but a lot of superdelegates have jumped ship.
Thanks Mariana:)
Mariana
Whoever wins, I hope they beat McCann, I mean McCain.
Has anyone heard from dear Dolores? I do hope she is well.
Docmac
I am sure Obama will beat McCain.
Ana
Another 7 to go.
Docmac
I think Dolores was here earlier.
Doc,
Dolores was here today.
Mariana,
Uau, I am watching CNN now!
It was good race but finally will end today, it seems so!:)
Thanks for that Mariana and Ana. I'm so pleased to hear it.
Have you seen this site guys?
My say okay
It has been posted earlier here.
Is this their idea of having fun?
Don't they know Viv is a pro and they are playing with fire?
Yes Bianca
Stupid people like yourself should be ignored, no-matter where they come from.
Goodnight all!:)
Bye Ana
Have a good rest.
So sorry, I was not being rude. I got an urgent call to go and sweep a very dirty floor. Surgeons can be remarkably messy.
So goodnight all and sleep well. Mariana, enjoy the rest of the day.
Is everything sparkling, doc? :-)
Yeah Claudia,
Even the curtains :-)
Nite x
Hiya Mariana
Thanks for the link to Bianca's little place, she obviously thinks the PJ investigation of the McCanns should be ignored, and we must all sit up and take notice of Clarence Mitchell, I never did rate her critical reading and comprehension skills! Did the PJ find the abductor then so they could charge him with murder and everything because I never heard..I must do more research and keep up to date, obviously.
Was it Bianca or Gina or Gerry who recently went to the States and set fire to the 3A's server, I am all confused now:-))))))) or was it Kate???
Does anyone know who rosiepops is a cow, is, is that rosiepops trying to be a smart arse again??
children_deserve_protection said...
Hi rosiepops_is_a_cow,
If you read the copied and pasted article from The Press Association on the front page of this blog (under the title: "McCanns to face neglect charges") you will see clearly Clarence Mitchell being quoted as having said the McCanns "welcome that at least abduction is now being considered". Quite obviously, the PJ documents found that discuss "Abduction, homicide, and concealment of a corpse" relate to potential charges against an abductor, not against the McCanns. If this wasn't the case, why on earth would Clarence Mitchell say they (the Mccanns) were WELCOMING the abduction charge??
Obviously, he wouldn't!
I am back, Obama clinches nomination!
Hey Mariana
Did you mean I am a Pro-McCann, I never noticed myself:-))))))
Hiya Viv,
Of course you are a Pro-McCann, you are a Pro-Madeleine McCann, just like the rest of us on here!
Viv
Look I have never understood why the McCann's did not sue Time Magazine when the magazine posted the article Who Killed Madeleine McCann.
And as you say, why on earth anyone on their right mind would welcome the abduction charge, is beyond me.
Ana
Yes he's got it.
Hiya Ana
Yes that is very true, Pro-Madeleine McCann, Pro-all children, Pro-abused children and their right to a decent life, Pro-Police and their work to protect victims of crime and bring perpetrators to justice.
Very much a pro!
xxxxxx
Viv
I meant it as in professional because of your job.
Mariana
I know I was only joking!
Luv Viv x
Mariana,
According Bianca, Clarence has welcomed the abduction theory and that was pretty obvious that they will charge him (the abductor) with homicide!
How can he ( Clarence) welcome Madeleine’s dead?
Viv,
I am very much pro too!
Viv
lol, let them face it then, that you cannot be fooled by criminals.
Goodnight all, again!
Now I am really off!
Ana
Desperate people say stupid things.
Morning
I am having terible problems posting (or was last night)anyone else loosing it (and their posts)?
I think that McCann's arrogance is where everything started to go wrong for them. They really thought if they told the world she was abducted everyone would just accept what they were saying as fact and no questions would be asked.
First mistake was trying to say that there was no neglect (their story does not stand up as soon as they said this they want us to believe that she was taken by a peadophile from an unlocked room that they could see clearly and were checking on regulaly. What could be worse neglect than leaving a child alone and then that child going missing?
But they wanted everything their way saying we all do it and it was safe when we clearly dont and it was anything but safe.
I hope the Tapas 3 that have gone back have told the absoloute truth even if it put's them in danger of neglect charges themselves.
How anyone can think of themselves when the welfare of a child is at stake is beyond me.
Reading some of the comments at the end of the article Viv posted yesterday I was amazed at the stupidity of some of them. The PJ have Madeleines DNA (even though they had lost her toothbrush as well) so if blood was found it would not have just been asumed to be her blood without testing.
How many people have died in 3A whilst Kates Bible and car keys were in the apartment? If she visited 6 corpses before she went away this surley can be checked out.
Arrogance and lies is what will trip these two up. You cant have a slogan like No Stone Unturned and then not bother searching not answering questions and spinning every negative into a positive.
Children first and as for the defenders of the McCanns they chose to leave their children even though they knew the night before they had been distressed and crying for them to come and they still put themselves first and went out. If they are inocent of all else bar neglect they have absoloutly no reason not to answer every questions put to them and to help the PJ any time they are asked to.
Morning all,
Just going to read last nights posts.
Viv,
The new pics say it all. Especially the 'Humility' pic, the Lawyer's look on his face is priceless.
Now was the 'Talking Bollocks' pic taken yesterday at the Leeds Business Week.
BBFN
Hello all
Guess who is going on a holiday
Claudia,
Thanks for the insight into the HoF. Really stupid ignorant people. The word Defendants perhaps has upset them, they probably consider it as an unhelpful, hurtful description.
A classic from pooperplops:
'What gives you the right to call Madeleine's parents, child neglecters?'
Well the FACT that her parents left her at the age of 3 with her 2year old twin siblings unsupervised in a holiday flat as they wined and dined with friends approx 100mts away and as a result of said parenting the child disappeared. Quite simply this Pooper, if parents treat their children like that then they should expect criticism. They should expect that those who criticize do not accept the parents actions as naive and have the right to state their opinion that it is neglect, neglect, neglect.
mariana,
That article FFS, WTF.
Hi Zodiac
You know these people behave in exactly the same manner as the McCann's and they do not think of themselves as child neglecters. I would call them child abusers.
Morning everyone
Perhaps I should pinch myself to make sure I really am awake, as I feel I am in the middle of the film The Invasion of the Body Snatchers!!! What on earth happened overnight with Leigh?
Hi Stella
I don't really know. Leigh was posting yesterday. She wished Viv good luck with the blog.
Mariana
What a really odd thing to say!!, that is the tone usually taken up with the pro's...Not something I would have expected at all from Leigh.
Good morning Viv, Stella, Mariana, Hope and Zodiac, and whoever else is on line -
I enjoyed all the pics Viv put up today - really clever - I wonder who does all that?
One post Viv put on last night with blogs sent in by the public about 3 months after Maddie disappeared, made me so angry.
Many of those people only seemed concerned with the welfare of the McCanns and the "I feel so sorry for the poor parents" line - what about Madeleine - did none of them feel sorry for what was happening to that dear little girl! It shows unbelievable crass stupidity.
I do think though - almost a year later, that many of those people will have changed their tune and will be looking at the child neglecters, the McCanns and their pals, in a different light, especially knowing that these children were not checked on at all, and that Madeleine disappeared because of their utter selfishness!
What I fail to understand is why the BMC (British Medical Council) has not struct all these doctors off yet, but it may be they are waiting for the outcome of the case. In my mind, they should all have been suspended from duty having left tiny children in bed while they went out wining and dining! Absolutely appalling they are still practicing medicine in my opinion!
See you all later - off out shopping now!
Nx
Mariana
Where could the McCann's go on holiday? Wherever they go there will be cameras, not much of a break for the twins? They might be able to control the pap in the UK, but abroad, they do not stand a chance.
Stella
I have looked at Leigh's posts and somehow she is repeating "libel law".
I would not think the McCann's would be holidaying outside Britain.
Mariana
Oh, I see. They must be heading off to somewhere like Devon or Cornwall then, somewhere quiet. Perhaps they are off to a holiday camp where they still have a baby listening service :->
Nancy,
'they should all have been suspended from duty having left tiny children in bed while they went out wining and dining! Absolutely appalling they are still practicing medicine in my opinion!'
My opinion also. I would add 'and due to such behaviour a 3 year old child disappeared.'
Stella
Clarrie made sure to tell us they won't be going to Portugal.
Zodiac / Nancy
I agree also.
Mariana
Yes I saw that comment. Any innocent parent would be back there in a flash, so it speaks volumes.
Zodiac
It is appalling behaviour anyway you look at it. I can't believe they have refused to assist the police and they are going on a holiday as though nothing has happened.
I've got to scoot now, will be back this afternoon...bye
mariana,
I cannot believe they are going on a holiday if they believe their child has been abducted, not knowing what circumstances she finds herself in and what she could be suffering. 14 months later lets have a hol. FFS.
Using the twins as an excuse for a holiday, did those 3 year old twins say, when and where are we going on holiday this year, we need a break. Stay at home for two weeks and play in the garden with your kids.
How much time does he get off work for all the trips they do. Is it unpaid leave or at the tax payer's expense. IMO, disgraceful display of usual selfishness and disregard for the missing child.
Will their PR guy be going on holiday with them.
DAILY RECORD
McCanns plan to take first holiday since Madeleine vanished
Jun 4 2008
KATE and Gerry McCann are planning their first family holiday since Madeleine vanished.
The couple told friends they are ready for a break with their twins Sean and Amelie, two - 14 months after their sister disappeared during their Algarve holiday last May.
A friend said: "Everyone needs a holiday, Kate and Gerry included.
"Behind the scenes, there remains a lot of action to try and find her, but for Kate and Gerry life has returned as close to normality as they're likely to get.
"That includes taking a holiday."
They plan to spend a week away during the summer to give the twins a normal family break.
It will be the first time Kate and Gerry have booked a holiday since Madeleine vanished from their flat in Praia da Luz.
Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "It will be incredibly painful to contemplate going away without Madeleine but this is the reality they are faced with.
"Nothing has been booked yet but one thing's certain - they won't be going to Portugal."
Mitchell also slammed as "absolute, ludicrous, lies" new Portuguese police claims that three of the so-called Tapas Seven had broken ranks to give evidence against them.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2008/06/04/mccanns-plan-to-take-first-holiday-since-madeleine-vanished-86908-20594367/
Zodiac
They are shameless. I don't know how he gets off work so often, or if it is unpaid leave.
The only one case I know for sure is that the EU trip was paid for by the taxpayers, as they had been invited by one of the Vice Presidents of the EU parliament.
If I had 'lost' my small daughter whilst on holiday, there is no way I would contemplate another one for a long time, especially as the twins are of an age where they would appreciate a day at the seaside just as much.
One wonders just how often those twins have been left with other people while they have been gadding about on their media circus!
I would have stuck to them like glue after losing one child who, according to them, had been abducted!
Now CM is trying to say the PJ's are lying again about the Paynes giving a totally different account of what happened that night! In your dreams CM! Patience and mouth zipping is what is needed from you at the moment pink one or you could find yourself in more hot water than you are already with the PJ's!
Just when are these McCanns going to stop being martyrs in the eyes of the newspapers?
Hello everyone:)
So the McCanns needs a break? On the funds bill? Maybe to a country who does not have a lot of communication with interpol?!? A coupple of million fund-money might give you a "new start" somewhere....
--
Tried to post this morning, but my internet-connection went whosh-cluck the moment I pressed the "publish" botton...
Starting to get paranoid after reading Leigh3 and Doc having an argument!!:(
Hi Nancy, how are you?
Every time CM opens his mouth, he is making matters worse for them and himself. Isn't there a sane person in their families to speak sense to them and shut him up?
Hi Mariana -
I'm fine and thanks for asking!
Always nice to read your sane posts!
As far as I know the McCann families haven't made any comments lately, even the dreaded Philomena! Perhaps they are trying to keep their heads down now things are starting to hot up!
I hadn't realised that the Oldfields had left a one year old child! That is absolutely appalling - a year old child needs constant attention especially in view of all the 'cot death syndrome' that affects many young babies!
Shame on all of them for their neglect of their children - I have a name for them all but it's not printable unfortunately!
What shame they have all brought to Britain and the doctors among them to their profession.
Joana Morais had an exellent reminder on her page yesterday:
Quotes:
Friends of McCanns 'scared to tell truth' from Tuesday, 12 November 2007 published in the Evening Standard and later on thisislondon.co.uk.
“It’s not that he is scared of the McCanns, but the economic and political lobby surrounding the couple is truly frightening to anybody.”
A friend of Kate and Gerry McCann wants to "reveal the whole truth" about the case but is frightened of the couple's political allies, a lawyer claimed yesterday.
"What my client wants is to reveal the whole truth, but he does not mean to accuse or blame anyone, as that is the job of the police.
"The only thing he wants is to help the police discover the truth about what happened before, during and after that dinner on May 3."
The lawyer said: "If you take into account all of the pressure that has been placed on my client and on other people, it is perfectly natural and understandable that my client has not told Clarence Mitchell of his decision to hire his own lawyer to co-operate more closely with the police."
You can find the rest of the article here:
http://www.joana-morais.blogspot.com/
Hi Niki
Yes, it seems the McCanns need a break and as it seems they haven't come to any decision yet as to where, I'm sure that all of us on this forum could suggest somewhere really suitable, but it may not be quite to their liking methinks!!
The McCanns to go on holiday for a week using the twins as an excuse. Small children are happy anywhere including the garden or park as long as they can play. Any destination should be put on red alert now.
Have the McCanns invited their friends as they cannot holiday without them and this time maybe they should bring a childminder or two with them.
Nancy
In Australia, mainly in Tasmania, we have one of the highest rate of "sudden infant death syndrome" in the world.
When my kid was a baby I used to look at him with a torch, to see if my child was breathing, every night, because I was horrified. I know the rest of my friends were doing the same thing with their children.
The McCann's and their friends have shown complete disregard for the infants safety and I do not feel anything but contempt for all of them. Even the Paynes who used the listening device. How could they help a choking child, from 100 yards away?
Hey guys
Have you noticed, the newspapers are using the word "kidnapped" and not "abducted" as they used to.
Mariana -
I agree with you entirely about the Paynes,even though they had a listening device. Listening devices should only be used within the house where the baby is in another room.
Why does Tasmania have a very high rate of infant cot death syndrome do you think? Is it maybe because babies suffer from the atmospherics there or something - very strange?
Hi Mariana -
Is there a difference between 'kidnapped' and 'abducted' then? I thought they meant the same thing? Whatever they call it, I don't believe it at all I'm afraid - there would have been DNA evidence of whoever broke into the apartment if that was the case. The scene of the crime may be cleaned thoroughly, but there would still be something remaining, even if microscopic, according to many forensic experts.
In my opinion there have been too many lies told by all of the tapas pals, but fortunately the Paynes and Fiona's mother decided to give the true account of what happened that night to the PJ's.
I hope we are able to hear exactly what they had to say sooner or later and that they don't turn round and deny it because of pressure by certain people.
Off for lunch - see you later.
Nancy
The scientists don't know much about it. The brain part called medulla releases a chemical called serotonin and this causes the child to stop breathing. About 88 children die from this, each year. A lot better than it was during previous years, like the 80's. However these days there are special mattresses to alert the parents that the child has stopped breathing.
Nancy
There isn't any difference between the two words. I believe, though they are reading Viv's postings and they speak accordingly.
I'm wondering if the McCanns are taking the opportunity to have a last break before what now looks like inevitable charges?
Not that I think Gerry thinks for one minute that he'll go down for anything...
Hello, all.
Zodiac, you're so right. The fact that they completely disregard the neglect issue is revealing. I've always said that these people who defend them are poeple who did, do or see not problem whatsoever doing what the McCanns did, neglect and leave their kids on their own.
So, they're going on holiday? I wish them luck, especially the twins. We all know what happened last time they went on holiday.
Viv , fantastic piece bringing it all together. I particularly enjoyed the Clarence Mitchell picture. What the McCanns have done to try and cover up (IMO) is beyond evil but at least you can see where they are coming from however awful
ie save their own skin.
BUT CLARENCE is the toadiest toad of all in my opinion. He knew full well what the situation was and has taken a salary defending them.
Plus I don't think they are going on a holiday myself. I believe they are being prepped for the courtroom. My guess is the holiday will be in Britain and it will involve 'learning things' form their barristers.
A few staged photo opportunities will obviously be sent out to try and fool what they consider to be the ignorant masses. That's my bet
Hi BT
It will be in Britain all right. They wouldn't dare go to another European country, would they now?
Why announce their holiday? Who the heck do they think they are?
Bath Theory,
Agree with you about CM, but he can always argue he was "only taking orders"! :)
Perhaps they're going on a course of parenting classes??
Mariana,
Why announce their holiday? Perhaps they'd like us to have a whip round for their spending money...
Hi LGC
I think someone in this British government ought to use the brakes on them.
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