22 Jun 2008

MCCANNS V LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE

UPDATED, 22/4/10, As a lot of people clearly believe the spin that Mitchell put out in the Daily Telegraph report below dated 21 June 2008, that the McCanns made Madeleine a Ward of Court themselves in 2007, I thought I would include the Order that Mrs Justice Hogg wanted making public that actually confirms it was she who made Madeleine a Ward a few months before Clarence spun this lie on 2 April 2008. The McCanns repeatedly misrepresent matters in this way in the press and it is right that the truth should be pointed out, of course they also lost their application to force the police to disclose their file of papers also having to back down and just accept back what they handed to the police in the first place, some 81 pieces of information handed to the police by their solicitors who had not kept copies. The McCanns apparently wanted to get their Spanish detectives to re-investigate what the proper police had already investigated. Yes, this bunch who told us they would have Maddie home for Christmas and were charging £50,000 per month apparently.

I am afraid it also confirms that the repeated claims of Goncalo Amaral that Madeleine is dead, she died in the apartment, were clearly also a matter of spin, presumably to sell his best selling book on the subject. Cashing in on a missing little girl is just horrendous behaviour, no matter which side of the fence it comes from.

IN THE MATTER OF MADELEINE BETH MCCANN

Judgment of Mrs Justice Hogg at the High Court, Family Division, RCJ, London,
7th July 2008, in open court

Madeleine went missing on 3 May 2007 just a few days before her 4th birthday, while she was holidaying with her family in the Algarve in Portugal.

On 17 May 2007 Madeleine’s parents invoked the jurisdiction of this Court under the Inherent Jurisdiction of the Court, and The Child Abduction and Custody Act, and the Hague Convention. They sought various orders and directions aimed at ascertaining the whereabouts and recovery of Madeleine. I became involved with the proceedings shortly afterwards.

On 2 April 2008 Madeleine became a Ward of this Court, and since that date has remained a Ward.

At all times jurisdiction was assumed by the Court because, there being no evidence to the contrary, it is presumed Madeleine is alive.

She is a British Citizen, and like her parents habitually resident here.

The current application was made on 2 April 2008 by the parents seeking disclosure of information and documents from the Chief Constable of Leicestershire to assist them and their own investigations in their search for Madeleine. Such are the complexities of the issues involved other interested parties were invited and joined to the application, and directions given for the hearing today.

The parties have reached an accommodation whereby the Chief Constable will provide to Madeleine’s parents contact details of members of the public who had themselves contacted the parents or their solicitors, and which on receipt were immediately passed to the Chief Constable, together with a brief resume of the information given.

The parents do not wish to pursue other aspects of the application, and save for the draft consent order being approved by this Court wish to withdraw their application and seek leave to do so.

I have no criticism of the parents in making this application. They have behaved responsibly and reasonably throughout.

I have considered the documents provided to this Court by the various parties, and have concluded that the agreement reached by the parties is entirely appropriate, and that the parents should be permitted to withdraw the balance of their application.

I will make the Order by Consent as sought. In particular paragraph 1 of the Order made on the 22 May 2007 shall be varied with the words:

“The terms of this paragraph shall not apply to the Chief Constable of Leicestershire or any other United Kingdom law enforcement agency. And for the avoidance of doubt all the evidence submitted to the Court and the Case Summaries and Skeleton Arguments remain confidential to the Court save that the Chief Constable may use his discretion to disclose his evidence, case summary and skeleton arguments filed in this Court and the Orders of 22 May 2007, 2 April 2008 and this Order. Any other documents and their contents are not to be disclosed to any person or published save in accordance with Orders already made by the Court or further Order of the Court”.

It may be noted that neither of the Parents is present today. I let it be known last week that providing their legal team was fully instructed neither parent need be present, and I would not criticise or bear any ill-feeling towards them if they chose to stay away. It was my decision as they have suffered enough, and I wished to ease their burden.

I know the police authorities and other official law enforcement agencies in this country, in Portugal and elsewhere have striven and will continue to strive to trace Madeleine.

I urge anyone who has any information however small or tenuous to come forward now so that further enquiries can be made.

There is, of course, as least one person who knows what has happened to Madeleine, and where she may be found.

I ponder about that person: whether that person has a heart and can understand what it must be like for Madeleine to have been torn and secreted from her parents and siblings whom she loves and felt secure with, and whom no doubt misses and grieves for. Whether that person has a conscience or any feeling of guilt, remorse or even cares about the hurt which has been caused to an innocent little girl: whether that person has a faith and belief, and what explanation or justification that person will give to God.

I entreat that person whoever and wherever you may be to show mercy and compassion, and come forward now to tell us where Madeleine is to be found.

I hope and pray that Madeleine will be found very soon alive and well.

I confirm the Wardship and Madeleine will remain a Ward of Court until further Order of the Court. The case will be reserved to myself subject to my availability.

http://madeleinemccann.org/main/2008/1761/in-the-matter-of-madeleine-beth-mccann/








IN THE MATTER OF MADELEINE BETH MCCANN

Judgment of Mrs Justice Hogg at the High Court, Family Division, RCJ, London,
7th July 2008, in open court

Madeleine went missing on 3 May 2007 just a few days before her 4th birthday, while she was holidaying with her family in the Algarve in Portugal.

On 17 May 2007 Madeleine’s parents invoked the jurisdiction of this Court under the Inherent Jurisdiction of the Court, and The Child Abduction and Custody Act, and the Hague Convention. They sought various orders and directions aimed at ascertaining the whereabouts and recovery of Madeleine. I became involved with the proceedings shortly afterwards.

On 2 April 2008 Madeleine became a Ward of this Court, and since that date has remained a Ward.

At all times jurisdiction was assumed by the Court because, there being no evidence to the contrary, it is presumed Madeleine is alive.

She is a British Citizen, and like her parents habitually resident here.

The current application was made on 2 April 2008 by the parents seeking disclosure of information and documents from the Chief Constable of Leicestershire to assist them and their own investigations in their search for Madeleine. Such are the complexities of the issues involved other interested parties were invited and joined to the application, and directions given for the hearing today.

The parties have reached an accommodation whereby the Chief Constable will provide to Madeleine’s parents contact details of members of the public who had themselves contacted the parents or their solicitors, and which on receipt were immediately passed to the Chief Constable, together with a brief resume of the information given.

The parents do not wish to pursue other aspects of the application, and save for the draft consent order being approved by this Court wish to withdraw their application and seek leave to do so.

I have no criticism of the parents in making this application. They have behaved responsibly and reasonably throughout.

I have considered the documents provided to this Court by the various parties, and have concluded that the agreement reached by the parties is entirely appropriate, and that the parents should be permitted to withdraw the balance of their application.

I will make the Order by Consent as sought. In particular paragraph 1 of the Order made on the 22 May 2007 shall be varied with the words:

“The terms of this paragraph shall not apply to the Chief Constable of Leicestershire or any other United Kingdom law enforcement agency. And for the avoidance of doubt all the evidence submitted to the Court and the Case Summaries and Skeleton Arguments remain confidential to the Court save that the Chief Constable may use his discretion to disclose his evidence, case summary and skeleton arguments filed in this Court and the Orders of 22 May 2007, 2 April 2008 and this Order. Any other documents and their contents are not to be disclosed to any person or published save in accordance with Orders already made by the Court or further Order of the Court”.

It may be noted that neither of the Parents is present today. I let it be known last week that providing their legal team was fully instructed neither parent need be present, and I would not criticise or bear any ill-feeling towards them if they chose to stay away. It was my decision as they have suffered enough, and I wished to ease their burden.

I know the police authorities and other official law enforcement agencies in this country, in Portugal and elsewhere have striven and will continue to strive to trace Madeleine.

I urge anyone who has any information however small or tenuous to come forward now so that further enquiries can be made.

There is, of course, as least one person who knows what has happened to Madeleine, and where she may be found.

I ponder about that person: whether that person has a heart and can understand what it must be like for Madeleine to have been torn and secreted from her parents and siblings whom she loves and felt secure with, and whom no doubt misses and grieves for. Whether that person has a conscience or any feeling of guilt, remorse or even cares about the hurt which has been caused to an innocent little girl: whether that person has a faith and belief, and what explanation or justification that person will give to God.

I entreat that person whoever and wherever you may be to show mercy and compassion, and come forward now to tell us where Madeleine is to be found.

I hope and pray that Madeleine will be found very soon alive and well.

I confirm the Wardship and Madeleine will remain a Ward of Court until further Order of the Court. The case will be reserved to myself subject to my availability.

http://madeleinemccann.org/main/2008/1761/in-the-matter-of-madeleine-beth-mccann/





Hi All,

As you know, it has been mysteriously leaked that on 7 July, Kate and Gerry will enter into a legal battle with Leicestershire Police demanding disclosure of police files in relation to "sightings" of Madeleine. It is claimed that the legal advice they received early on was that they should make Madeleine a Ward of the British Court. It is certainly true they were receiving assistance from family lawyers at a very early stage and I have to say it baffled me as to why they would be doing this. Gerry commented at an early stage that it was not their plan to use private investigators but the fund had enabled them to get a lot of lawyers in place, presumably including these family lawyers. It seems to me that when faced with the situation that all three children had been neglected by Kate and Gerry and one had gone missing in Portugal, Leicestershire Social Services may have decided to make the children Wards of Court. Wardship proceedings are rarely used, the procedure that is normally used is for the Local Authority to carry out an investigation under the Children Act and then either place the children on the at risk register or, in more serious cases to apply to the Court for an Emergency Protection Order followed by formal Care Proceedings. However, wardship would be appropriate where the children are out of the jurisdiction, as in this case. This gives the Court the power to make orders as to the care and wellbeing of the children on the basis the court is satisfied they are at risk of serious physical or emotional harm, or both. As we know, Kate and Gerry sought to suggest, via John McCann that the visit from Leicestershire Social Services on their return was "at their behest". Of course, this would not be true, the SSD would be under a statutory duty to investigate matters further as soon as they returned to UK. We also know from Philomena that Kate was "terrified of the twins being taken from her".

This court hearing is just one week prior to the date when Portuguese are due to make their police file available to Kate and Gerry McCann. We know that evidence has been passed on to Leicestershire Police. I wonder if the Portuguese Police are therefore only going to make limited disclosure, perhaps in relation to certain offences where the investigation is now completed. I have always thought that the McCanns offending behaviour extended far beyond 3 May 2007. It has continued with fraudulently encouraging the public to keep giving them money to search for Madeleine. Clearly all the false sightings would achieve the stated aim of Kate and Gerry McCann is seeking to remind the public Madeleine is still missing, Gerry confessed in June 2007 he was extremely worried the media would just forget about this case. Clearly there is no way he was going to allow that to happen. The Portuguese Police, as we know, have been investigating, kidnapping, homicide, abandonment and disposal of corpse, but there are more offences than that.. false sightings and very serious fraud. I believe the McCanns are desperate to know what Leicestershire Police have against them in relation to these matters. I also believe that the McCanns will be prosecuted in the UK in relation to all matters. The police are always loathe to allow suspects to have details of the evidence against them because they can then start manufacturing further false evidence as a defence. I have no doubt that is why Leicester Police will be strenuously opposing the application the McCanns are making. From the article below it would seem the McCanns seriously expect a High Court Judge to order that police hand over part of their files to "Metodo 3". I have a feeling the police will have something to say about this firm. I am sure the police will also point out it is not up to prime suspects to dictate to the police that their investigation is compromised and damaged by handing over evidence against directly to the prime suspects. The McCanns just continue to act like a couple of desperate criminals, but still, the likes of which I have never seen before, truly, leaving so stone unturned.

I have also included an article that was referred on last thread by other posters which is very helpful, where Philomena actually refers to the fact the family will prevent the children becoming wards of court! Whenever children are at risk with their immediate family, SSD generally will try and place the children with other relatives wherever possible, but Philomena seems to confirm in this article the wardship threat was coming from the SSD, certainly not that it emanated from Kate and Gerry themselves.



Madeleine McCann: parents' court bid for information
By Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter
Last Updated: 3:08AM BST 21/06/2008
Kate and Gerry McCann are to ask a High Court judge to order the release of police documents which they hope will kick-start the search for their missing daughter Madeleine, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.
Kate and Gerry McCann are determined to everything necessary to search for their daughter
The McCanns hope their application to Mrs Justice Hogg will result in Leicestershire Police opening their files on scores of reported sightings of Madeleine, most of which have been passed on to them by police in Portugal, where the four-year-old disappeared in May last year.
Until now police in Leicestershire, the McCanns' home county, have refused the couple's requests for information about sightings, saying they are bound by the terms of an agreement with Portuguese police.
But Mr and Mrs McCann, who retain the services of a Spanish-based detective agency, are anxious to make sure that every possible lead has been checked out, which they believe the Portuguese police, whose investigation is gradually being wound down, may not be able to do.
The Telegraph can also disclose that Madeleine was made a ward of court last summer at the request of the McCanns, to empower judges to act in her best interests in any legal dispute such as the case which is about to be heard.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns’ spokesman, said: “I can state that on the instigation of Gerry and Kate McCann Madeleine is a ward of the High Court of England and Wales.
“An application has been made on Madeleine’s behalf by her parents for disclosure of certain documents. The hearing is currently scheduled for July 7 in the High Court in London.
“It has been the stated intention of Gerry and Kate McCann to leave no stone unturned in doing everything necessary to search for their daughter, as would any parent.
“This application is just part of their search for Madeleine.”
Madeleine’s status as a ward of court has never been disclosed by her parents, who quietly made a wardship application in the High Court just weeks after she went missing.
The couple’s legal team had advised them to ask for Madeleine to be made a ward of court because wardship status gives the courts certain statutory powers to act on her behalf in legal disputes such as the one which has arisen with Leicestershire police.
They still believe their daughter is alive and hope the police files may contain information which could yet lead to a breakthrough.
The case is listed to be heard in open court on July 7 in the Family Division of the High Court in London, and is expected to be contested by Leicestershire Police, according to legal sources.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said: "Kate and Gerry have always said that they will do whatever is necessary to find Madeleine and that they will leave no stone unturned in their search for their daughter.
"They will take whatever legal steps are necessary if there is information out there that can assist their private investigation into finding Madeleine. Beyond that I cannot make any comment."
Mr Mitchell said the hearing would not involve any attempt by the McCanns to clear their names by proving they were not involved in their daughter's disappearance from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz. They remain official suspects, or arguidos, in Portugal.
In recent months the couple have become increasingly frustrated at the slow progress of the Portuguese investigation, and they suspect that many possible sightings of Madeleine have not been followed up at all.
If they are given access to the police files on reported sightings, each one will be looked into by private investigators retained by the couple.
For the past year the McCanns have employed Metodo 3, a Barcelona-based detective agency, to carry out an investigation in parallel with the Portuguese police inquiry.
The agency has checked out sightings as far afield as North Africa and South America – all of which have proved to be false – using either its own staff or affiliated firms, which it says it can do far more quickly than the police.
In one instance earlier this year, the agency ruled out a sighting of Madeleine in Chile within three hours of receiving a tip-off, by employing local investigators to track down the girl concerned. The agency argues that police would have taken days to achieve a similar result because they would have been hampered by bureaucracy and official procedure.
Earlier this week Portugal's Attorney General suggested that police files may be opened up at the end of July, but the McCanns fear his comments may prove to be another false dawn.
Their case is being heard in the Family Division because it involves the welfare of a child. Mrs Justice Hogg, a specialist in child welfare cases, is the sister of former cabinet minister Douglas Hogg and the daughter of former Lord Chancellor Lord Hailsham.


Madeleine: Now British police ask if twins are 'at risk'By SAM GREENHILL, DAN NEWLING and NEIL SEARSLast updated at 08:11 11 September 2007
Comments (128)
The McCanns are under investigation from British police and social services to assess whether their twin son and daughter are at risk.
Given the gravity of the allegations facing the McCanns, social services have no choice but to examine any possible risk to young children who have endured four months in the glare of the media spotlight.
The couple awoke yesterday after their first night back in the village of Rothley since they flew home on Sunday without Madeleine.
When they realised, last Thursday, that Mrs McCann was to be made an official suspect in the disappearance of her daughter, they vowed to remain in Portugal to clear her name. However, during 13 hours of interrogation, Portuguese detectives threatened her with the terrible ultimatum of confessing - or losing her twins.
Scroll down for more ...

Gerry McCann opens the door to a policeman yesterday
Read more...
Madeleine: Full DNA match of missing girl 'under carpet in car boot'
Hunt for body moves to church where McCanns prayed
McCanns call in heavyweight lawyers to clear their name
Officers said they would charge both her and her husband in connection with the case, and claimed that bail would be denied while they awaited trial.
This would have resulted in the twins perhaps being taken into care by Portuguese social services for at least a year.
Hurriedly, the McCanns arranged to return to Britain - only to find that Leicestershire police were discussing them social workers.
John Coughlan, Joint President of the Association of Directors of Children's Services, explained: "In cases such as this, social workers working for the host authority need to make a sober assessment of the facts in the case.
"At the meeting they would try to establish what they know and what they don't - and would use that to try and determine whether there is any real risk to the children.
"If they decide that there is a risk, they would then consider what they are going to do about it, step by step."
He added: "In most cases, social service workers do not come crashing down the drive and snatch the children. They are much more likely to take a more measured approach."
Technically, if social workers conclude that there is a real risk to the twins, they could move to take the two children away from their 39-year-old parents.
Scroll down for more ...

The family flew back from Portugal on Sunday
In this case, the Leicestershire social workers are unlikely to have a great deal of reliable information about the McCanns' behaviour.
As the Portuguese police force would not hand over information that may be used in a criminal prosecution, the British social workers may therefore decide to carry out an initial interview with the McCanns before taking further action.
Nevertheless, Mr McCann's sister Philomena revealed that the family are preparing for the worst.
She said: "Madeleine's godmother is down at Rothley right now and she is prepared to step into the breach if Gerry and Kate are asked to return to Portugal.
"The family are more than willing to look after the children and they will not become wards of the state here or anywhere else."
Yesterday the McCanns were visited at their large modern home by a police "crime reduction officer" who explained that he gives information about "personal safety".
The visit raised fears that the couple could be targeted by members of the public who believe they are responsible for Madeleine's death.
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The twins' sister, Madeleine, went missing on May 3
Back in Portugal, a police source said phone calls to and from the couple form "a major strand" of the inquiry.
For more than a month, the couple have been under round-the-clock surveillance, with their calls recorded and their e-mails intercepted by the Portuguese police.
Now it is alleged that something said on the phone has added to detectives' conviction that Madeleine died the night she went missing.
The Mail has discovered new details about the conclusions drawn by the British scientists.
Portuguese police believe the crucial forensics supports their case that some terrible harm came to Madeleine in the apartment.
A source in the UK said last night the results of toxicology tests were "significant", indicating that police are focusing on some sort of medication or poison in the apartment.
The McCanns have repeatedly denied accidentally overdosing their daughter on sedatives to help her sleep while they went out to dinner.

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viv said...

Hi All

This is some notes for a short presentation I made some years back concerning the Killshaws who bought twins in the US whilst leaving their three children at home for several weeks with a babysitter. This was also an instance where wardship was used to protect the American twins, prior to returning them to the States. Again, the motivation of the Killshaws seemed to be fame and fortune. He was subsequently struck off as a solicitor for bringing the profession into disrepute by his conduct. There are some rather eerie comparisons to be made here!

TWINS ADOPTED VIA THE INTERNET
Brief Facts
The twins were already in the process of being adopted by the Allens – snatched by mother and handed to Killshaws who drive thousands of miles to get birth certificates and adopt twins in 5 minute ceremony in Arkansas. Mr Allen now charged with sexual abuse of two teenage babysitters. Both couples pay fees to Caring Heart Adoption Agency - £4,000 and £8,200. Mother denies any financial gain and says she wants twins back!
Mother lied as to being a resident of Arkansas and a US Judge has now ruled that the Killshaws adoption was illegal due to non-residency and twins should be returned to US. Father of twins estranged from mother already has custody of their three-year old daughter and likely to be awarded custody of the twins.
Twins brought to UK by Killshaws on 6 month Tourist Visas with the aim of getting British Citizenship for them.
Killshaws already have 3 children who were left for weeks over the Christmas period to be cared for by a friend – the same one who was assisting with care of the twins.



Commencement of Legal Action
16.1.01 Flintshire County Council begin investigation- s47(1)(b) Children Act l989 as to whether twins are suffering significant harm and whether they should take any action to safeguard and promote their welfare. Keith McDonogh, Director of Childrens Services said:
“We are continuing to make enquiries and have asked for assistance from the Welsh National Assembly to establish the status of these children. The welfare of the children in this family will remain our paramount concern and we will take all appropriate action to secure their well-being”.

S 47 does not give the Local Authority the power to enter premises.
Due to difficulties in gaining access Local Authority obtained an Emergency Protection Order under s 44(1)(b) They would have had to satisfy the court that they had reasonable suspicion that access to the child is urgently required because if access was denied the Authority clearly could not obtain sufficient evidence to prove belief in significant harm which is required under s 44(1)(a) to remove the child. Application can be made to a Magistrates in their own home in urgent cases.





Possible grounds for such action By Local Authority:
• Health concerns:
• - both developed coughs after lengthy, freezing journey
• - whilst in States one twin had to be treated for debydration
• - farmhouse reported to be ‘unfit for human habitation’
• Significant harm has also been described as:
• ‘disruption to a child’s life or the absence of parental ties:
• Birth mother ~ Allens for a few months and then brought to the UK by the Killshaws
• Political? Mr Killshaw thinks so. Criticised by Tony Blair and Jack Straw.
- Government rushing through new measures whereby it will be a criminal offence to bring a child into the UK without the parents being approved adopters. They have also issued a warning to Internet Service providers. Full details of these measured are contained in the handout.
• Illegal/immoral action of Killshaws? Private adoption is not allowed in the UK but is routine in the States and is often arranged via the Internet. The UK government are certainly keen to promote adoption as being the best solution for many looked after children and to that end they are setting up national registers. but it would seem not via the internet and certainly not where adoptions are creating profits for adoption agencies. Further quotes as to the welfare of the child in this regard are included in the handout.
• Killshaws admitted their action was designed to get around the vetting procedure provided for in s 1 Adoption Act l976 and s 11(1) that no person other than a Local Authority or an approved Adoption Agency may arrange an adoption. Provision clearly designed to protect children from unsuitable adoptive parents such as the Killshaws.
• Concept of ‘purchasing’ children via the Internet morally repulsive
• Emergency Protection Order made on 16th January transferred Parental Responsibility to Local Authority but only valid for 7 days.
• Application to Birmingham High Court 23rd January
• Twins made Wards of Court by invoking Court’s inherent jurisdiction. Wardship is used in complex or tragic cases such as the conjoined twins where a High Court Judge can effectively step in to protect a child where the law may be inadequate or where it requires his expertise to understand complex legal issues for example in Re C l985 the court had to consider a contract for surrogate parenthood it was held that there was a need to throw a ring of care around the child but care proceedings were inappropriate. Care proceedings are also inappropriate in this case as the twins are US citizens but the twins needed intervention to remove them from the Killshaws. The issues are clearly very complicated as Mr Justice Kirkwood pointed out
• Mr Justice Kirkwood :
Twins to remain in foster care pending research into what is best for them. It has become perfectly clear to me that in order to get the right solution, some impartial, responsible research needs to be done.

He also commented on the legal complexities of the case:
.. it is not just English law that I have to consider, but the position also in one, two or perhaps three States of the United States of America.
As to the twins welfare he commented:
• I am sure that everybody understands that this court’s task is to do its best to find the right solution for the twins. It’s their welfare that really matters in all of this.


Finally I would just like to pose the question -
Is the decision to keep the twins in the UK with a fourth set of strange carers really consistent with the welfare of the twins or should they have been sent straight back to the States for US Judges to decide. A US Judge has indicated custody will probably be given to the father and the Killshaws adoption was illegal. The UK have clearly shown they do not support the Killshaws either by the action taken. Their mother and father are in the States and the twins are US citizens.

viv said...

Mr Kilshaw was struck of in 2002 for using £17,000 that belonged to one of his clients to fund their twins adventure. As the story below confirms the flamboyant Mrs Kilshaw said

"I am going to have to live with this for the rest of my life"

Con merchants who get caught always see themselves as the victim..never their children.

Having returned with the twins to UK they sold their story to the Sun and camped out in a hotel, also paid for by The Sun. They courted the American media...Well he got struck off in the end! So called professional people who find they just cannot live on that salary and so decide to do something utterly bizarre and demonstrating their total lack of love and concern for children, will always get their just deserts! I wonder if Max Clifford would also advise the McCanns to "just shut up". Very sound advice!

Kilshaws: Paying a high price



The Kilshaws went public with their fight

As a judge rules on the fate of the twins at the centre of an internet adoption row, we profile the British couple at the centre of the saga.
Alan and Judith Kilshaw, of Buckley in north Wales, wanted another baby so badly they paid £8,200 to adopt American twins - and then went public with their story in January.



The twins at the centre of the tug-over-war

It was a tale that seemed too bizarre to be true, and the international media descended to hear more from the all-too-willing pair.

Not only did they tell of an internet baby broker, rival would-be parents and a cross-country car chase, the 40-something couple themselves cut quite an unconventional dash.

They were alleged to have courted Hollywood to sell their story - a claim the couple strenuously deny. They were also said to have spoken of ghosts inhabiting their rural retreat.

Yet their openness badly backfired when, two days later, the local county council issued an emergency protection order and took the twins into care.



They have talked themselves into a bottomless hole

Max Clifford
There has been much public criticism of the Kilshaws, in part fuelled by their high media profile.

PR guru Max Clifford has since volunteered his services free of charge to, he says, help the couple make the best of a bad situation. His advice? Say nothing more.

"I have made it very clear they have talked themselves into a bottomless hole, and if they continue to spout off it's going to get bigger and bigger," he has said.

Larger-than-life

Judith and Alan Kilshaw, who were married eight years ago, have two sons, seven-year-old James and Rupert, aged four.



Alan Kilshaw: Said to be courting Hollywood

They share a 300-year-old converted farmhouse a few miles outside the Flintshire town of Buckley.

Alan, 45, is a specialist housing solicitor and generally plays the more articulate and considered foil to his wife's wounded outpourings.

Formerly a member of the Conservative party - "[I] became disillusioned when they ousted Mrs Thatcher" - he is a founding member of the far-right Democratic Party. The small party, oddly, takes a hard line against immigration.

Judith, 47, who assists with her husband's business, says the furore over the adoption has made her the "most hated woman in Britain".

A flamboyant and emotive woman, her taste for appearing on breakfast television in sparkly eveningwear has calmed somewhat.

Although her husband is typically more soberly dressed, he last week arrived at the High Court in a Stars and Stripes tie and a drape jacket.


Hard lesson

The publicity about the adoption prompted former colleagues, neighbours and relatives - including Mrs Kilshaw's daughters from a previous relationship - to come forward with allegations about the couple.



Judith Kilshaw: "Most hated woman in Britain"

Neighbours complained of a noisy house overrun with animals, and the local British Legion club revealed it had once banned Mrs Kilshaw for rowdy behaviour.

In all, the couple have learned the true cost of going public with their fight to keep the babies.

As Mrs Kilshaw has said, "I am going to have to live with this for the rest of my life."

Wizard said...

Good Morning Viv and All,

With regards to the hearing on 7th July you have to hand it to the McCanns they have more front than Brighton!!!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hi all

I tried to post this before but it vanished into the ether.

ANOTHER RESPONSIBLE BRITISH PARENT??

If you read it elsewhere my apologies!

British mother arrested in Spain after 'leaving young son to burn on beach for 12 hours'

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 5:11 PM on 22nd June 2008
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Add to My Stories



The mum was arrested at the beach at Benalmadena in Spain after allegedly leaving her five-year-old son out in the sun for 12 hours

A British mother has been arrested in Spain after she allegedly left her five-year-old son to burn on a baking hot beach for 12 hours while she went to work.

The boy's mother, aged 19, reportedly left him playing in the sand at the popular resort of Benalmadena, in the Costa del Sol, where he suffered serious sunburn and had to be later admitted to hospital.

According to locals, at around 10am the woman went to work at the top of the beach for five hours, but failed to collect her child when she finished her shift.

The boy is said to have later made his way to the stall, reportedly covered in blisters.

A local source told the News of the World: 'He looked desperate for a drink and was crying his heart out.

'The stallholder managed to get the girl on the phone at around 8pm.

'But it was nearly 10pm before she turned up, claiming she couldn’t find anyone to give her a lift.

'She started screaming and threatening people who had helped out.'

Police arrested the woman at the scene, having being called earlier in a bid to find her.

A local police spokesman refused to comment except to confirm: 'It’s being dealt with by National Police.'

It is believed the woman is from Scotland and moved to Spain after meeting a man on holiday there.

A police source added: 'The burns were serious enough to warrant hospitalisation.

'She could be charged with abandonment and child neglect.'

nancy said...

Good morning Viv and everyone.

Viv - The Telegraph says that it was the McCans who made Madeleine a Ward of Court, but of course they got this information direct from CM's mouth, so we shouldn't put too much credence on that! I personally go along with the view that the SS applied for the Ward of Court status for Madeleine.
If the McCanns did make the application, then I'm sure it was done to back their story that Madeleine was abducted!

The Story of the Kilshaws - uncannily similar to Kate and Gerry's story, but if enough research was done, I'm sure there are countless cases where this sort of thing has happened. People trying to make themselves lots of money by becoming infamous.
Ironside on 3A's has been talking about one such case today which makes interesting reading and it is a blueprint for what happened to Madeleine as is your account.

ICTOAN

What a very sad tale of the little boy left to burn on the beach in Benalmadena! The poor little soul - I hope and pray he gets better and it doesn't scar him for life. I also hope the Spanish Authorities deal very harshly with his neglectful excuse for a Mother - and I'm sure they will because Spain is a nation of child lovers, just like Portugal.

Wizard -

Good morning - you said it! It's unbelievable the amount of cheek they have, but then they can afford to with the support they are getting from the rich and famous!

Nx

viv said...

Morning all

I am very shocked to hear about the little boy in Spain abandoned in the boiling hot sun. Madeleine seemed to have very sore arms on the final tennis balls pic, but her parents were middle-aged doctors, not a 19 year old. Not that this excuses her terrible treatment of this poor little boy. It would be nice if Nan flew out and removed him from her "care"! These parents always turn on the police, which says it all really.

I appreciate the article does say the McCanns instituted the wardship proceedings, but it seems to me this was probably leaked by Clarence Mitchell. It was what reminded me again of the Killshaw case, they even seek to publicise their adversity with those in authority for what they can make from it, either in terms of making money or professing their innocence. Maybe this was a preemptive strike also before it hits the press that the children were made Wards or they actually instituted the wardship proceedings very rapidly before the SSD got the chance! I do not think this happened in September, I think it did happen in the very early stages when the McCanns were consulting family lawyers, including barristers. Also it would not make sense for the SSD to institute Wardship proceedings on their return. They would have used normal procedures under the Children Act, clearly falling short of instituting formal care proceedings but I have no doubt keeping the McCanns under regular supervision in relation to their care of the twins. SSD could have made many stipulations as to what needed to take place, for example Kate seeking medical advice and abiding by a treatment regime, having regular assistance with the twins, the twins regularly attending nursery etc. The nursery staff would also be obliged to report any concerns about the twins. I think it is likely the SSD held off taking any more formal action due to the possibility of adversely affecting their trial in that it would effectively pre-judge their standard of care of the children.

Nancy

I am struggling to see which rich and famous people are supporting the McCanns a "rough diamond" businessman who employs Clarence Mitchell and an ageing tory who must have a very questionable set of motives..

Wizard

Again, just like the Kilshaws there is no lack of "front" is there, it is a prerequisite to those who wish to con huge amounts of money and pretend they actually care about the welfare of children. What amazes me is their divine belief in their ability to con!

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi folks,

Just popping in very swiftly...

...for goodness sake someone, give Auntie Phil her own chat show! Won't be expensive, you can pay her in pies (well, perhaps it will be expensive).

The only time that woman opens her mouth is to put three things in it - the left one, the right one and, you've guessed it...

So which mastermind was it who thought "let's get Phil to draw attention to something we want hidden"? Wards of court, Philomena? Where did that one come from? Make sure you don't give anything away (well, not if it's surrounded by pastry).

She was probably in the audience of that legendary dreadful performance of Anne Frank's Diaries when the SS arrived on stage and somebody watching shouted out "She's in the attic!". Only Phil would shout "She isn't in the attic, you know!".

What a shame Philomena didn't exert her commitment to ensuring her nieces and nephew were looked after properly BEFORE they went on holiday. Where was the family then? They certainly didn't appear to be handing out tips to their parents on how not to leave the kids on their own to go out drinking.

And Pros, I'll lay off making personal comments about Philomena when you lot cease slagging off those of us who want justice for Madeleine's disappearance.

Family loyalty is one thing, protecting people who are quite possibly the perpetrators of several serious crimes is quite another. Especially when their 'defence' entails abusing those who believe that morality is a virtue that cannot simply be discarded due to gross self-interest.

Anarchy is what you get then, Pros. In which case you might never discover who's eaten all the pies...

viv said...

Lol LGC

Who ate all the pies!

Well BT thinks that sweet Rosiepops is none other than a great pie eater. We certainly know both can be rather aggressive and great story tellers on behalf of the mystical McCanns.

Aside from commenting on her belief in "dreams and visions" which does cause me to think one of her personas maybe "Supertroll" Rosie seems to have gone very quiet, so maybe she had a chat with Max Clifford, or maybe little brother threatened her!

Certain posts on Supertroll's blog bear her unmistakable hallmark however of slating people who have morals and see the McCanns for precisely what they are, maybe she is just a little wary these days of putting her name to it!

In short the sickening abuse continues unabated. We will continue to speak with candour and honesty about Kate and Gerry McCann just so they know they are not actually fooling people.

Justice for Maddie xx

Let us Hope Mrs Justice Hogg "sees through them, right through them", to quote dear Rosie

xx

bath theory said...

LGC

This is exactly the issue isn't it. Your words are deemed spot on by anyone who associates their actions with ethics, decency etc and the only people who would be angry or hurt by such words are those with a closed mindset ie criminals or those who protect such like. The latter have no trouble stealing words we would use to perpetuate their swindles and bamboozlements !!

...Family loyalty is one thing, protecting people who are quite possibly the perpetrators of several serious crimes is quite another. Especially when their 'defence' entails abusing those who believe that morality is a virtue that cannot simply be discarded due to gross self-interest.

SPOT ON LGC

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE !!

nancy said...

Viv -

It's true the rich and famous have taken a back seat for a while now, but when this first happened there was Beckham, Ronaldo, Branson, Brown, Richard and Judy, Hello Magazine, Vanity Fayre, not forgetting millionaire Kennedy, to name but a few, and they still have the most famous, or should I say infamous, lawyers money can buy!

However, there's none fall so hard as those who fall from on high they say - and they will!

nancy said...

LGC -

Another one of Gerry's relatives, John McCann, comes in for a bit of stick on the 3A's

Mary Poppins thread:
DO NOT LOSE SIGHT OF JOHN MCCANN
--------------------------------
A John McCann (brother of Gerry) quote:

"Even if she has been damaged I believe she is still recoverable"!

Scotbot said:

It is detached language like that which indicates he knows exactly what has occurred, because he no longer sees Madeleine as a person but as a lifeless object i.e. a corpse!
---------------------------------
On a Radio 4 morning programme when the interviewer mentioned how the family must be suffering, he answered:

"We are a bit - bla bla bla"!

Another comment of his when asked why K&G didn't use a baby sitter:

"What's the point of having a baby sitter when your in your own back garden"!


Clarence Mitchell and John McCann both gave up their safe careers to search for Madeleine shortly after Madeleine's disappearance when she might well have been found! John Mcann to help run the Madeleine Fund! He was a bit put out when people who obviously had their own suspicions of K&G stopped sending money to it.
-----------------------------------

Shubots said:

Remember this man invited Sky News cameras round to his home to film his family at breakfast just days after Madeleine went mising and then was filmed horsing about with his young son as if they'd just won the lottery.

He also accompanied Kate and Gerry to Huelva on their trip from PdeL!.

He seems to have gone very quiet lately and is not seeking out the cameras now.

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

Thanks for copying such a good post about John McCann. He gave up his full-time job to administer the Fund because it was so lucrative and he is just as bad as his brother, well almost. I really just cannot believe his comments about Madeleine, these people are just not normal, at all!

Viv x

viv said...

I think actually John McCann speaks about Madeleine, like she is an object, a piece of merchandise, rather than a little girl. That was my immediate reaction when I read it...she is a little girl FFS!

What on earth does he mean damaged? by Gerry's fantasy sexual predators, these people are disgusting. This is what they truly wanted the public to believe had happened to their little girl, so that they could make lots of money. It would be absolutely unthinkable to a normal parent.

Viv x

viv said...

Mr McCann said in a statement: "We hope our efforts will help make the world a little bit safer for all children.

"Kate and I believe there is a strong, public feeling that crimes against children, wherever they may occur, are totally unacceptable."

Taken from the report below which confirms that Gerry's was "looking down the tracks", re amber alert in July 2007. What smug nonsense Kate and I believe crimes against children are totally unacceptable, pity they seriously neglected them throughout the holiday then and did not even see that as a crime, apparently. JK Rowling, Beckham, Branson etc. are not coming out with any messages of support now are they, and must feel just as duped and used as so many others do. I wonder how much cash they gave Kate and Gerry, I know they would probably not miss it but that is hardly the point!

Madeleine McCann's father visits the US
By staff and agencies
Last Updated: 1:26AM BST 24/07/2007
The father of missing Madeleine McCann will meet US Attorney General Alberto Gonzales today to discuss how America is tackling child abduction.



Madeleine disappeared on May 3.
Gerry McCann is in the US on a four-day fact-finding visit to learn about the work of specialist agencies in preventing child trafficking and sexual abuse.

He and his wife Kate have mounted a vigorous campaign to find four-year-old Madeleine since she disappeared from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, on May 3.

Mr McCann, who flew to the US yesterday, will spend most of the day in talks with American child protection bodies.

Accompanied by the family's campaign manager, Justine McGuinness, he will discuss tackling child abduction with experts from the National and International Centres for Missing and Exploited Children.

"They want to deepen their knowledge of the legislative position in the US," a McCann family spokesman said.

"Part of what they are thinking is that, looking further down the track, they want to try and persuade various European authorities, both at the national level and the EU level, that they should look to a more integrated process similar to that in the US.

Article continuesadvertisement

"The laws in each EU member state are all different. Given the trafficking aspect of the issue, they would like to find a template which they could then encourage the EU member states and the EU itself to adopt."

The National and International Centres for Missing and Exploited Children were established in 1984 and 1998 respectively after six-year-old Adam Walsh was kidnapped and murdered after being snatched from a department store in Florida in 1981. The case led to a major review of child abduction cases in the US and legislation passed last year - the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act - was named in his honour.

The Act significantly strengthens America's nationwide sex offender registration system and introduces harsher penalties for child sex offenders.

Tomorrow Mr McCann and Ms McGuinness have meetings scheduled with US senators, congressmen and a senior member of First Lady Laura Bush's staff. Mr McCann said in a statement: "We hope our efforts will help make the world a little bit safer for all children.

"Kate and I believe there is a strong, public feeling that crimes against children, wherever they may occur, are totally unacceptable."

Mrs McCann will remain in Portugal with the couple's two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie.

Meanwhile, posters of Madeleine are being displayed at booksellers in more than 200 countries around the world thanks to Harry Potter author JK Rowling, whose final instalment of the boy wizard's adventures was published on Saturday.

viv said...

I did not get that quite right, he is saying Kate and I feel the public believe, well not anymore we don't and I for one, never believed in you or your fantasy sexual predators which "sicken me to the core" in the first place, although I really did just keep hoping I was wrong and Maddie would be found. As time went by it was clear that was never going to happen.

Viv x

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

If the article you posted above doesn't prove (well at least to my mind) that Madeleine's disappearance was foreseen and foreplanned well before the 3rd May, 2007, then I'll eat my hat.

If not, Gerry McCann had a fantastic secretary to get all these visits and meetings planned in such a short time!

Another GM quote - there are so many of them that are cringe making:

"Madeliene is as close to the perfect child as you could get you know for someone so young, less than 4 when she was taken. She really is amazing. Nothing like this has ever happened.....(and I mean going with anyone she didn't know for example)".....

Well Gerry, perhaps Madeleine did know the person she went with on her fateful journey!

Nx

nancy said...

It's baking here in Spain today so I'm spending much of the time just relaxing and watching Wimbledon!

I see the weather is good in the UK too. Let's hope it lasts for the whole week!

See you all later.


Nx

bath theory said...

One thing that interests me is when was the last time we saw a 'famous' celebrity come on television and stand 100 per cent behind Kate & Gerry?

Didn't see any of them at the airport when they landed and haven't seen ANY for ages. A few articles that seem biased by similar status orientated people or perhaps people funded by Metado3But no 'big' celebrities anymore being public.

That says it all really doesn't it. Even reality has hit this level of society ie those who usually deem themselves well above bothering whether something seems right or wrong ARE NOT wanting to be seen with them at their shoulder.

bath theory said...

IMPLOSION time just around the corner (IMO)

Joe said...

This on Sky news .


McCanns To Ask Judge To Rule On Files

Updated:16:11, Monday June 23, 2008
Gerry and Kate McCann are to ask a High Court judge to order the release of police files on their daughter's disappearance.
Kate and Gerry McCann
Kate and Gerry McCann

Madeleine McCann went missing from the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May last year.

Portuguese secrecy laws have since left her parents in the dark on much of the police investigation.

The McCanns and the private detective agency they are employing want to examine the potential lines of inquiry as part of their own search.
Advertisement

However, police in their home county of Leicestershire, who lead the British arm of the official investigation, have so far stuck to an agreement with their counterparts in Portugal on the non-disclosure of information.

The couple made their daughter a ward of court, which empowers judges to act in Madeleine McCann's best interests in a legal dispute.
Missing since May 2007
Missing since May 2007

They hope their application to Mrs Justice Hogg, listed for the Family Division of the High Court on July 7, will give them access to the police files on various reported sightings.

Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said: "I am limited in what I can say as matters are sub judice and relate to a minor.

"I can state that, on the instigation of Gerry and Kate McCann, Madeleine is a ward of the High Court of England and Wales.

"An application has been made on Madeleine's behalf by her parents for the disclosure of certain documents.

"The case and the judgement may be in public and this will be a matter for the court to decide.

"It has been the stated intention of Gerry and Kate to leave no stone unturned in doing everything necessary in the search for their daughter, as would any other parent.

"This application is just part of their search for Madeleine."

viv said...

Hiya BT

That is the point isn't it, the big people they did have Rowling, Beckham, GB, Branson, all dropped them like a hot coal and it is pretty obvious why. They were initially prepared to give professional couple the benefit of the doubt but now they know better.

I think disaster is literally just around the corner for Kate and Gerry McCann, as you say they about to implode!

All hell is going to break loose for them and it just serves them right.

Justice for Dear Little Maddie a Wonderful little girl who they have never shown the slightest trace of love or concern for. They laughed and jogged in PDL, now they know what is coming, they are backed into a corner and all they can do is fight the police. They will not win. Madeleine willxx

viv said...

Hiya Joe and thanks for that.

"on the instigation of Kate and Gerry McCann Madeleine is a Ward of the High Court".

That is a rather vague phrase, deliberately so, IMO, if Kate and Gerry McCann actually chose to make her a Ward then why not just say so? I think it may be they instigated the application rather than have the SSD do it for them!

No wonder he says he cannot comment further, since when has he felt matters are "sub judice". Did he think that when he acted like a Senior Police Officer holding up an e-fit of their so called wanted man who needed to be tracked down. That was disgraceful behaviour and not within his own power or authority, such conduct is entirely a matter for the police, but of course the police do not go in for meaningless propaganda, they have a proper job to do!

Viv x

docmac said...

Rosiepops said...
Blah blah blah blah, and then:

"Here is an alternative Ten Commandments for you.

(1) *Thou shalt shut thy gob when politely asked, and not drone on endlessly.

(2) *Thou shalt notice when thy audience is bored rigid, with your lengthy inane meanderings

(3) *Thou shalt not tell us all for the millionth time how you tooketh the British government to court-eth, while you were dressed in your blazer, striped tie and grey flannels -eth and thou shalt not Keep telling us how you teacheth in a Catholic primary school, as we really do not want to knoweth.

(4) * Thou shalt not go to the Pro’s or ST’s forum or bloggeth or your mistress Viv-eth’s wrath will descendeth upon you heavily. (Like the picture to your right on the fronteth of this bloggeth)
Thou shalt not try to earn Brownie points by creeping up the fouleth stinkyeth backsides of Viv-eth and Notdoc-eth.

(5) *Thou shalt not state that the *vast majority of people agree with you* on the basis that you ask us to believe that you runneth up to parents in the playground and ask them their views on the Madeleine McCann case.
(They are likely to thinketh that your lifteth doth not travelleth right up to the topeth)

(6) *Thou shat not alloweth thy over active imagination to runneth away with itself-eth and start inventing dottyeth, mad cappeth, theories, concerning the bath-eth.

(7) *Thou shalt not disagree-eth with thy mistress Viv-eth, or you will be booteth of her bloggeth, very quickly-eth (ask Gina and Bianca etcetera-eth)

(8) *Thou shalt not have strange Gods before me and they don’t cometh much stranger than notdoc-eth and the PJ -eth Oh and thou shalt not covet (fancieth) Kate on the quiet-eth.

(9) *Thou shalt not dwelleth on the snottiest greeneth blogeth, alongside weird depraved people with sicketh imaginations.

(10) *Thou shalt stoppeth all these maddest extreme right wing comments, or you will be going the sameth wayeth as poor Mrs Consecutive Numbers - 2345eth and end up in the loonieth binneth ( 3 A’s-eth.)"

Rosiepoppeth x
23 June 2008 11:57



I get it now! You're Paul Gascoigne, right? Or have you been climbing into the Colombian marching powder again? What's with all the asterisks too? PMSL!!!


Viv, I read that you are totally cheesed off with me pasting stuff on here. Come and get me, it's only a 6500 mile swim. Don't forget to turn right at Tarifa and then left again into the Indian Sea. You should be here in a jiffy. 47th boat on the right, the one with all the swarthy people enjoying a 3 hour dinner. With their children.


Joe, I hope that Mrs Justice Hogg will be the first in a line of judges that these two will meet.

viv said...

Alright Doc

Once again, you manageth to maketh me roll on the floor with laughter, simply brilliant!

Luv ya hun xxxxxxxxxxx

nancy said...

Joe -

Thanks for the Sky Report.

'This application is just part of their search for Madeleine.'

They can tell that to the Marines -if they were so anxious to see documents about different sightings why didn't they co-operate fully with the PJ's as and when necessary. They have done the complete opposite of what any grieving and caring parents would do. Why should they expect the PJ's to co-operate with them now?

To my mind it's an obvious attempt to get information in advance of the PJ's disclosures in Mid July or whenever it is, in order that their solicitors can build up their defence case.

nancy said...

Docmac -


Your words of advice to Rosiepops seem to be bearing fruit - I could actually understand every word, perhaps because it was in old English; I am an old bat according to the trolls, and she actually has a sense of humour too!

Well done Rosiepops - I would say you are definitely one of the monitors on your blog!

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

Do you think this is why she went quiet for a couple of weeks, to write it, humour does not come naturally to her, does it!

Viv x

By the way Doc, I think I should warn you I am a very good swimmer!

viv said...

BT

Pleased to see you are also hitting a raw nerve with Rosiepops, keep it up, it is good to find out their weak spots!

Viv x

docmac said...

Nancy

I understood most of it too, but there were a lot of 'yous' and 'yours' where there should have been 'thys'. That 'shat' at no 6 was a bit of a shocker.

Got a poor connection and an empty tummy. I'm off, enjoy your evening.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I live near enough to Tunbridge Wells to be disgusted by Rosiepop's blasphemy.

viv said...

Hi ICTOAN

I am sure she is a devout catholic, just like Kate and Gerry...

docmac said...

Cheers Viv

I see you didn't pick up the Indian Sea bit. It is the Pacific Lake of course! lol!

I'll be back in CT with a more reliable connection on Wednesday. See you then.

Cláudia said...

Viv and Doc, I just got home after a very eventful day (which included a surprise birthday party and a friend's false alrm labour) and you already made me PMSL!
As for the devout catholic thing, I thinh G's plans may include becoming a Pope next.

Cláudia said...

Doc, you mean I'll have to survive without your mop until Wednesday? :-(

hope4truth said...

Hello All

Viv I actually agree with Gerry McCann from your earlier post..

"Kate and I believe there is a strong, public feeling that crimes against children, wherever they may occur, are totally unacceptable"

Could not have put it better myself when they NEGLECTED their children night after night even after being told by Madeleine that she had been crying along with her baby brother they still put themselves first so absoloutly Gerry TOTALLY UNACEPTABLE...

I hope this ends soon and they are shown all the evidence against them if there could not be any they would not need to know what the police have on record.

nancy said...

Hi Hope - hope those toothy pegs are better now!

Your words:

I hope this ends soon and they are shown all the evidence against them if there could not be any they would not need to know what the police have on record -

Precisely!!

nancy said...

ICTOAN -

'I live near enough to Tunbridge Wells to be disgusted at Rosiepop's blasphemy'

That was a classic!!

dylan said...

Does rosiepoops have a speech impediment????

Di said...

Hi All

Only here briefly.

Viv..

Very interesting topics today.

Nancy..

Thanks for the link to Ironsides post on 3A's.

That, is why I have not much time on here. Once I started reading I could not stop.

Initially the two cases are so similar. I have not had time to read any of the comments yet but, am I to assume, from the report, these people do really believe Madeleine is still alive. More importantly they are saying they know who has taken her!!

If they know who has taken Madeleine, how come 14 months later she has still not been found.

I really do not know what to make of this. However, as I said earlier I have not read any of the comments after Ironsides post.

Off to watch Corrie, will look back in later.

Di said...

Hi Viv

I would love to know what you think about the Elizabeth Smart connection, if there is any connection at all.

x

Di said...

Hi Hope

Your earlier post, totally agree, any crime against children is not acceptable.

I just want to go back to the 2nd of May, there is something that has been bothering me for a while now.

We are to assume the McCanns and friends were at Chaplins. Mrs Fenn says Madeleine was crying for well over an hour for her Daddy.

MW staff say they had to go to Chaplins and get the parents to come back.

Then, we have the statement from Kate Madeleine asks "why did you not come to me and Sean whe we were crying".

Could it be possible, that Sean was crying which woke Madeleine and she went looking for her parents, and subsequently met her demise.

Just a thought..

Di said...

Off now..

Enjoy your evening..

bath theory said...

From McCann files

...The couple have installed a state-of-the-art security system at their £600,000 detached home.
The gear, costing "several thousand" pounds, is understood to include CCTV and panic buttons in most rooms to alert cops in an emergency...

1) I WONDER WHO BOUGHT THEM THIS ?

2) I wonder how many people have written to them and asked for their money back they donated in good faith ?

3) I wonder who or what they are scared of ? .. .

could it be the truth?

bath theory said...

By the way I have written to the Judges I know :)

bath theory said...

...Justice for Dear Little Maddie a Wonderful little girl who they have never shown the slightest trace of love or concern for. They laughed and jogged in PDL, now they know what is coming, they are backed into a corner and all they can do is fight the police. They will not win. Madeleine willxx

:)

nancy said...

Di -

Anything is possible and there has been so many theories, including Madeleine wandering off and having an accident.

I also read recently that they didn't go to Chaplins at all and the MW staff didn't go looking for them.

So many stories and so many denials - hopefully we'll get to the whole truth and nothing but the truth before long.

I still think the over dose theory is the most feasible - certainly there was no abductor - that is too far fetched. I've never believed that particular story!


Hi Bath Theory -

I would have thought that the McCanns are being protected by local police and bodyguards, although I don't know for sure, but the story of them being threatened has been around for a while now. It could be they were funded out of public funds for the alarm system, or perhaps it was a present from Uncle Brian! To be quite honest they are earning enough I should think between them with Gerry working and interviews etc to pay for the system themselves.

It's to be hoped that before long the auditors will be checking the Madeleine Fund's accounts and all will be revealed! The Directors, including John McCann, will have to have an AGM I should think to discuss what happens over the next year.

Cláudia said...

A panic button would have been a good idea when they decided to leave their children to eat, drink and have fun. Or maybe not,

nancy said...

Di -

It's a good idea to read other stuff sometimes because there's always something you can pick up that you've missed.

I find Ironside a particularly good read, but some of the others are excellent too. Big L always makes me laugh - he holds nothing back!

However, I prefer this blog - not only does Viv run it very well, with excellent articles, but also because it's more personal somehow and we have all got to know each other over the months.

It's really melting here at the moment, so I'm going off for a cool shower and bed.

See you all tomorrow - I'll read all your posts in the morning.

Bye for now

Nx

bath theory said...

And finally for those who are paid to intimidate or strike fear on websites that do not want the parents fully investigated remember this ...

The first interview with Jane Hill from the BBC - 25 May 2007, Kate admits never actually 'physically searching' for Madeleine

Jane Hill: "I met people who didn't go to work for more than a week because everyday they were down on the beach, searching the streets. Did you, as a mother Kate, just sometimes think 'I've got to go and be out there with them. I want to go and just physically look as well."

Kate: (Pause) I mean, I did. Errm... (Long Pause) Errm, we'd been working really hard really. Apart... I mean, the first 48 hours, as Gerry said, are incredibly difficult and we were almost non-functioning, I'd say, errm, but after that you get strength from somewhere. We've certainly had loads of support and that's given us strength and its been able to make us focus really so we have actually, in our own way, it might not be physically searching but we've been working really hard and doing absolutely everything we can really to get Madeleine back."

And remember there are people in this country who have no problem in searching for facts & truths no matter what the cost and they have friends in high places too, who not only also care but are in positions to do something about it.

:)

Di said...

Good morning everyone.

Nancy, I totally agree with you, this site is well run and much more personal than 3A's.

Bath Theory

When I watched the above interview, I was absolutely shocked at Kate's reply.

Yes they were very busy in their own way. Getting as many rich backers as possible and setting up the fund.

I would have liked her to add, thank you to everyone who searched for Madeleine.

nancy said...

Good morning everyone.

Bath Theory -

In my opinion, there can only be one reason that a devoted parent would'nt look for their daughter until they couldn't stand up any longer, and that is because they know they won't find her!

Talking about friends in high places - they certainly had quite a few to start with, but nowadays we don't hear their voices - I wonder why?

The News of the World offered £250,000 reward for Madeleine's return.

The Madeleine Fund was then kicked off with £250,000:

After that there the following donations ,(plus the vast amount the public donated).

J.K. Rowling - donated an undisclosed staggering amount

Ann Summers'boss donated £100,000

The bosses of West Ham and Reading Football Clubs donated £10,000 each.

Easyjet boss donated a large undisclosed sum.

Simon Cowell donated £50,000

Matalan Chief donated a large undisclosed sum

Wayne Rooney donated £25,000

English Cricket Capt £20,000

Entrepeneur - Sir Tom Hunter donted £100,000.

They were soon to accrue over £1,000,000.

It would be interesting to see how all the money donated has been used and what percentage has actually be used in looking for Madeleine.

I notice there is nothing about the Fund on the FindMadeleine.com website these days.

Presumably accounts will have to be published before too long!

Zodiac said...

Good morning all,

Dylan,

'Does rosiepoops have a speech impediment????'

Maybe it is one of the side effects of the labotomy which he/she/it perhaps had on the 2 or 3/5/07.

Nancy,

They have a state of the art security system fitted, yet we see him on his bike setting off for work on their recent 2 hour long oh so boring TV programme.

viv said...

Morning all

I think it would be extremely expensive for the Police to continue to provide security for Kate and Gerry and taxpayers may ask why should we continue to pay for this and can we not have those police officers out doing more worthwhile work. There is a lot of crime in Leicester!

I think it would have been wise for the McCanns to hold their press conferences somewhere else, other than right on their drive from the moment they got back. There always are vigilantes and nutcases who present a risk of harm, wanting to take the law into their own hands.

They themselves have created the situation where they are at risk and I think it is perfectly reasonable, that they should be required to foot the cost of security, but as you say, given Gerry apparently takes off on a pushbike, they cannot be so concerned! They obtained half a million in damages alone from the Daily Express and so several thousand for their security arrangements would clearly not be beyond their means.

When you look at the famous people who were immediately targeted to give money to them and the amounts involved, it would be interesting to know exactly how much they did receive from the general public. It seems to me it is considerably less than we have thought or been led to believe. It is very good propaganda to say, look the public have given us all this money, people really do believe in us, but did they? I think the reality must be, normal, reasonable people always thought, but you left those children alone!

In relation to Elizabeth Smart, I watched an interview with her where Nancy Grace was continually probing her for details of her thoughts and feelings whilst kidnapped. This, to me, was absolutely dreadful. Most kidnap victims suffer from very serious post-traumatic stress disorder and it is utterly painful and psychologically very damaging for them to constantly relive their ordeal. That is what they naturally tend to do and the purpose of therapy is to help them to move on and get well again. Her parents have used her in a political way and subjected her to this, this is not attempting to help her to get well again. No publicity whatsoever and a supportive and loving family would do that. I am not surprised Kate and Gerry like this family, it is good propaganda for them and they have the same lack of concern for their own child.

Viv x

nancy said...

Good point Viv -

They took the media with them straight to their doorstep when they returned from PdeL. This was of their own volition because if they hadn't gone world wide and become so infamous the media attention wouldn't have sustained for the length of time it did!

As you say, I'm sure there were oddballs eager to find out exactly where the family lived. I'm sure they are still receiving high security from the police as well as their state of the art alarm system.

I read that Kate has a plain clothes police woman with her everytime she goes out shopping for instance. And how much longer will it go on for.

If the McCanns' don't end up where they really belong I suppose the next thing is they will be sent off to Australia, the States or somewhere else with an undisclosed address paid for by the taxpayer of course, as the killers of little Jamie Bulger were recently!

Nx

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that it is Kate who is fearful of public reprisals against her, a situation she placed herself in. Had it not been for their continual obsession with the media they could have gone home privately and left it at that. Speaking of the insidious work of Clarence Mitchell, did you notice there are now several press reports about the High Court action but every single one of them is identical. Clearly a press release written by Clarence Mitchell. I think they decided to make this announcement because, as he says in that press release, Mrs Justice Hogg may choose to make the hearing and her judgment public! Let us hope so!

Viv x

Joe said...

Well there goes DS as well under the pretext of posters fighting with each other........


#69591
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With reference to our recent post in this thread: unfortunately, the situation has failed to improve and as such, this thread is now closed.

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mariana said...

Hi Viv
Hello everyone

I have been away for a few days, very busy plus my back pain was killing me.

Viv
Can you please clarify this statement?
"I can state that, on the instigation of Gerry and Kate McCann, Madeleine is a ward of the High Court of England and Wales."

Is Madeleiene a ward of the state?
If she is, shouldn't the state appointed a lawyer to look after her interests?

viv said...

Hi Joe

Is Rosiepsychs on Digital Spy as well then, wherever she goes there will be nastiness!

Viv x

viv said...

Hi Mariana

When there are care proceedings involving living children the State appoints a guardian ad litem to represent the child's voice in those proceedings.

But this is not that situation at all, it is a question it would seem, of the police case being that Madeleine is dead and they are investigating that and the parents saying, she is still alive and we want to investigate that. I believe the Court will act in her best interests.

Viv x

Joe said...

Hi Viv,

I do not know that as there are/were several Pros there so she could have been one of them. I just read the posts occasionally and found them on the whole very balanced and I was not a member or poster. I am very surprised and sorry that its gone.

mariana said...

Viv
Thanks a lot for the explanation. It is the usual ongoing game for them, that she is alive and well.

Joe said...

Viv,

Perhaps the McCanns want the WOC status reversed as it probably applies to the twins as well? The reason I say this is that a year on such a tag is cumbersome to them, particularly if Madeline is deceased. I do not fully accpet that its to get info from the Police, which is bizarre to me. How can the man in the street ask demand official information from the police files that concerns not only them but other witnesses, and no charges even been laid. If charges were laid then of course they could expect a file for their defence. Maybe it is they that have been summoned to the Court in reality?

viv said...

Hiya Joe

I do not know whether the twins are also Wards but given the situation the SSD were faced with of three children clearly being in danger abroad, that would not be surprising.

In relation to the McCanns, they seem to want to set new precedents so far as the law is concerned. I was simply staggered when they were seeking to insist that lawyers and the McCanns would make a presentation of their evidence to Gordon Brown. There is a clear separation of powers in the UK and it is simply not the job of politicians to hear evidence in a potential criminal case or to investigate it. The police investigate and the court is the tribunal of facts and evidence.

Here again, the McCanns are seeking to intervene in a criminal investigation of themselves and demand disclosure of evidence the police have gathered. Again, this is simply not done! When there is an ongoing police investigation, the police will not release contents of the file to prime suspects for very obvious reasons. As you say, once they are actually charged then the police must disclose all material that they intend to adduce in evidence against them, so that they can prepare their defence. It has always been the McCanns position that prior to charges being laid they want to be in a position to refute evidence against them and we have seen lots of instances of this. Some have been particularly bizarre, they sought to suggest the cadaver dog evidence was wrong because an American judge had ruled it unreliable and inadmissible but this man has now admitted the dogs were right and he did murder his wife. They sought to suggest that cadaver smell on Kate's jeans and tee shirt could have come from her being in contact with several corpses as a two day a week locum GP. They sought to suggest cadaver smell in the boot of their hire car could have come from dirty nappies and rotting meat. This is without including all the other manipulative ways they have sought to interfere in the police investigation against them and waste police time with "scores of false sightings" and yet they insist the police should have investigated all of these. If you look on their webpage under investigation, in spite of the twelve months investigation by their private investigators all that is displayed is the FBI pictures of bundleman! In all the circumstances one could certainly understand the police becoming ever more secretive about the evidence and sticking to procedure which happens in UK, not just Portugal, to keep details of the investigation confidential from homicide suspects until charges are actually laid.

Viv x

Joe said...

Apparently it was heavy troll activity that had the thread closed on DS and the mention of Sub Judice and the court case by the pink clown was the catalyst.

Cláudia said...

Hey, guys. What's new?
Been away for a while because I have a very pregnant friend who may give birth anytime now and who needs company.
The weather is still great here. But quite hot for very pregnant ladies! :-)
I think it could be interesting if the judge allowed the McCanns to see the info related the 'sightings'. I would like to know how many hours M3 would take to return Madeleine home, safe and sound...

Joe said...

Viv,

re your post thats why its does not wash the reason the pink clown has given. As you rightly state it is just not done to give evidence to suspects at this stage.

docmac said...

Claudia

"Hey, guys. What's new?"

Not much. Sun, sea, a buffet the size of England. Why do you ask? Burp.

mariana said...

Viv
The High Court will not and cannot overlook the fact that any suspect can try and intimidate witnesses.
As you said Viv, the Court will do the right thing and protect Madeleine's rights.

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

I suppose it is possible Mrs Justice Hogg could order limited disclosure but I think it is highly unlikely because it seems to me the sightings themselves are part of the police case against the McCanns and our courts are always very unwilling to interfere in operational decisions made by the police as to how they conduct an investigation. There is clear precedent that says this just does not happen, but I guess the McCanns and their lawyers must think there is a chance!

Viv x

Joe said...

M3 would target any witnesses that had given accounts that were different to the Tapas 9. It would be like changing the Law for this lot and still keep the Law in place for everyone else ( I hope that makes sense). Its the expensive lawyers trying it on, as this whole situation is a precedent where we have 2 suspects who are media celebrities and walk on water and will challenge everything even the Police and have the lawyers to do it.

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

Ah being pregnant in stifling heat, that brings back memories. When I was expecting my second son in 1975 it was extremely hot here and so I used to put his little brother down for a nap and go and lie in a cold bath for a couple of hours. It is not so hot here at present, but very pleasant.

Luke is due back from 10 days in Lloret tonight and I understand it has been pretty hot, so I hope he is not as sunburned as last year! I am looking forward to picking him up about 11.30 tonight, so will not be putting in my usual late night appearance!

You will never guess which airport!!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Viv, but it would be interesting to see M3 return Madeleine home safe and sound in a few hours. maybe even in time for Christmas. Christmas 2007, of course...

Doc, what a shame you're not in Beja. You could be useful. If my pregnant friend goes into labour while I'm with her, I don't know what to do apart from calling 911. :-)

viv said...

Hiya Joe

We have heard that the sightings were even being investigated by Interpol and our own Serious Organised Crime Agency, to suggest the McCanns would be allowed to pass this on to a bunch of criminals seem particularly perverse to me!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Viv, here it's also been quite hot. It's my friend's first baby so we are both pretty nervous. Not to mention the father! :-) As long as I don't have to deliver the baby, i think I'll be fine! :-)
I heard that it was very hot in Lloret del Mar.

nancy said...

Hi Joe -

Yes, that's how it seems I must admit, but I think they have been too confident of their 'untouchable' status for too long now and their luck is going to run out I'm sure! How many people are still running around after them like headless chickens now - very few, except those earning their keep from the Madeleine Fund.

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

First babies do not tend to arrive as quickly as subsequent one in my own experience and so I think you will have plenty of time to get her to hospital. My then husband drove me when I was having Luke but could not find my papers or packed bag etc, I think he was in more of a state than me but we only just got there in time!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Viv, you made me laugh. Men aren't usually very useful at that time. They're useful to get to that time! :-)

nancy said...

Viv -

You are right not to underestimate the McCann's lawyers. They managed to keep that b.....d Pinochet from getting extradited, so we should allow for the worst I suppose, even though it appears that the police have a watertight case.

However, as I just said to Joe, they are losing the support of the public and that may help sway Judge Hogg's opinion! K&G are not seen as whiter than white nowadays. I'm sure Judge Hogg has plenty of facts and opinions of her own, but of course she would have to work to the letter of the law!

Nx

docmac said...

Claudia

I have a two-fingered friend living and working less than a thousand miles away from you. She has a bicycle and could be there in about an hour or so. Just say the word.

Gotta go. Have a nice day all!

nancy said...

Hi Claudia -

Just make sure you've got plenty of hot water ready!!!

Nature will take it's course and I wish your friend all the luck in the world.

I was very lucky with my son and daughter - they both arrived on the very day I was given - very rare that, so I've never known what it's like to go over - must be very frustrating!

Extremely hot here too - I'm sure Viv's son will arrive home looking forward to a bit of cooler weather!

Nx

Cláudia said...

NAncy, I'm not planning on doing anythinh apart from being by her side! :-) Thank you for your nice words.
Doc, can you make it a motorcycle and 30 minutes? ;-)

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

I think Mrs Justice Hogg would be at pains to point out she is completely ignoring public opinion and just dispassionately considering the case as presented by both sides.

I think what we can be clear of - the McCanns and their lawyers know that Portuguese Police are not going to disclosing full details of this case and I strongly suspect that the false sightings is where Leicester Police are currently at, and the McCanns want to know just how bad the case against them is. If you try to pervert the course of justice you are in very serious trouble !

Viv x

nancy said...

Hi Mariana -

Nice to see you!

I hope the back pain soon eases up - is it hot where you are? If so, that should ease it!

I hope the McCanns are disallowed the disclosure they are hoping for because that would surely set a precedent and at the same time put the LP's and other police involved in similar cases at a disadvantage.

Obviously though, if the Judge thinks it is in Madeleine's interest for the documents to be disclosed then she will rule against the police, but just what good would old sightings be that have been gathering dust in Portugal - the PJ's would have investigted themselves anything that was deemed important I'm sure.

Nx

nancy said...

Off to watch Nadal play now -

back later - enjoy your afternoon!


Nx

mandarinn said...

Good afternoon all!
Viv thanks for the interesting and useful information of your post.
IMO the requirement of mccans to see police information before it being in public domain soon , shows how desperate they are to know what information police has. Why? If they are innocent as they tell...
But... in other hand i'm afraid they can get it. We already saw so much interference from all kind of powers , including political.
Viv do you think it is in some way possible they can move some political interferencies in it. I know in UK there are powers separation as it is here ... but with what we have seen.... who knows...

Cláudia said...

Hi, Mandarinn.
Maybe it's not that bad if they were given info concerning the possible 'sightings'. I would like to assess M3's efficiency and see in how many hours they return Madeleine 'safe and sound'...

mandarinn said...

Claudia
Are you sure they can separate only the sights? I don't believe it is the sights they really want.
And, if I understood what WOC is it is the court who can ask something in Maddie's behalf , or PS with the sights, maybe something can come with, usefull to them....did i understood wrong?

Zodiac said...

Jacqui Smith never responded to Kates father.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liv ... -19765914/
Now McCanns fear losing their twins into care
Sep 11 2007 by Caroline Innes, Liverpool Daily Post




THE parents of missing toddler Madeleine McCann fear their two-year-old twins could be taken into care.

Liverpool-born Kate McCann has told her parents she is scared Sean and Amelie may be put in care or placed on the “in need” or “at risk” register, after police and social services last night held talks about her case.

Mrs McCann’s father Brian Healy, of Mossley Hill, said he had spoken to his “distraught” daughter last night about her and husband Gerry’s fears for their remaining children and described the situation as “scary.”

Mr Healy told the Daily Post he had personally called Home Secretary Jacqui Smith to ask for her to intervene but has had little positive response from the politician who has said she is satisfied with the Portu-guese police’s investigation.

His comments came as authorities in the McCanns’ Leicestershire home town of Rothley yesterday met to discuss how they should now respond to Madeleine’s disappearance and the naming of her parents, Kate and Gerry, as formal suspects.

It was reported in Portugal yesterday that “biological fluids” with an 80% match of Madeleine’s DNA were found underneath the upholstery in the boot of the McCanns’ hire car, a silver Renault Scenic.

The sample was too badly deteriorated to make a 100% match possible, according to a Portuguese newspaper.

Mr Healy said: “Kate has told me that she has received calls that all the statements from the Portuguese authorities have been handed to the prosecution to process and also to social services in Leicestershire.

“She is distraught and really frightened for the future of the two kids.

“They are getting a lot of scary calls from Portugal, from the police and the authorities out there. But they are just trying it on, trying to make her break.

“Some of the things that they are saying are terrible. How much more can they go through?

“This is just so scary now and we are all angry.

“Susan (Mrs McCann’s mother) and I are trying to be strong for Kate and Gerry.

“Luckily, Kate has Sue’s brain and my stubbornness. She is a tough cookie when she has to be.”

Mr Healy added that he had rang the Home Secretary for help and advice but had had no response.

He said: “I cannot believe that Jacqui Smith has said she is satisfied with the Portu-guese police’s investigation.

“How can she say that when it has been such a shambles?”

He added: “We have been told not to comment on what is going on but it is hard when the people of Merseyside have been so supportive and just want to support them through this.

“People keep coming up to me in the street and just hug me and tell me how much they are praying and thinking of our family.

“They have been amazing. They know that Kate and Gerry are good people.

“There is no way that they have had anything to do with Madeleine’s disappearance.”

The Local Government Association (LGA) would not comment on the McCanns specifically, but it did outline what a social services authority in England must consider in similar cases.

If an individual was named as a suspect overseas and this was reported to police, their local social services department had a duty to consider whether action needed to be taken to ensure the children’s welfare, said the LGA.

It depended entirely on the nature of the evidence made available to the council, the association said.

Asked if it was likely that children in such cases were taken into care or placed on the “in need” or “at risk” reg- ister, the LGA said it depend- ed on the circumstances.

But either step could be taken following a period of assessment “with a view to maintaining the best interests of the children”.

Children placed on the registers are reviewed regularly by councils in terms of a “child protection plan”. But this would not necessarily mean that they would be taken out of their family home.

Asked if social services could get involved at a later date if not initially called on in such cases, an LGA spokesman said: “Dependent upon the circumstances of the case, it is possible that the case would be reviewed in the weeks or months following an initial assessment.”

Leicestershire County Council would not comment on the meeting.

Got the above from 3 A's by Laffin Assassin.

Cláudia said...

Well, CM said they wanted the info related to the sightings. I'm sure the judge knows what to do. And to be honest, I would like them to be given the non existent sightings info. It will be a funny wild goose chase! :-) Or gambuzinos, as we call it here in Portugal.

Cláudia said...

“They are getting a lot of scary calls from Portugal, from the police and the authorities out there. But they are just trying it on, trying to make her break."
-----------------------------------

Jesus, they're hard to please. They get phone calls and complain. The Authorities stop calling them and they also complain! lololol

mandarinn said...

Claudia
Gambuzinos hunting it is what M# are doing in purpose.
What they expect then?

Cláudia said...

Mandarinn, but up until now they can claim that they haven't got the info. Although they also said that thousands of people contacted their phone line. I'm sure those thousands of people got the wrong Madeleine...

viv said...

Hi Mandarin

and nice to see you back. I think the helpful report Zodiac has just posted confirms that it is the McCanns who have always wanted political interference but as Kate's father has publically confirmed that has been refused.

Jacqui Smith would know full well that child protection is a matter for Social Services and investigation of serious crime a matter for the police. She obviously satisfied herself she was happy with the investigation being conducted by Portugal and that was as far as she was prepared to go. Only the McCanns and their supporters have tried to suggest it was a shambles, now they have moved on to Leicester Police to say they are not acting properly or fairly either, but clearly they are, in the interests of Madeleine, the victim of her parents' conduct, no matter which way you look at this.

Viv x

mandarinn said...

BTW if the process will be in public domain in july, what they expect to doon a hurry, now , more than an year after, to find
Madeleine? It seems to me clearly a false reason to put hands on the process to protect themselves and not to find Maddy

mandarinn said...

Tks Viv.
I got it after read Zodiac post.I feel happy the interferencies was only in begining of this case.
Hope it goes ahead and soon finish with the best to the reming children , i meant the twins.
I was out for 12 days , i did a wonderful little vacation in Cyprus

viv said...

Hiya Mandarin

They have had details of sightings and these have even been investigated by Interpol. The sightings have consistently been checked out and proved to be false. Metodo 3 claim that in one instance they were able to prove within 3 hours the sighting was false due to having local operatives find the actual child. This has also happened in Morocco.

It is patently clear the McCanns continue to demand the evidence against them ahead of their being charged in a bid to defend themselves. They know full well Madeleine cannot be found, the same as we all do. On their own webpage it is clear M3 have found precisely nothing, under "Investigation" there is simply details/e-fit of bundleman and this was nothing to do with M3 it was to do with the fertile and highly creative imagination of Jane Tanner, Gran Cooper and the McCanns.

To suggest that an outfit who announced they were on the tail of the abductors and would have Madeleine home by christmas could be credited with serious investigation and the protection of a child in serious danger with an abductor is ludicrous!

Viv x

viv said...

Hi Mandarin

I do not accept there has ever been political interference in this case.

Gordon Brown offered to help find Madeleine when it was believed she had been abducted. When he knew otherwise he severed all links with the McCanns. I think he was unwise to ever become personally involved given almost all such cases involve the parents. The McCanns were entitled to Foreign Office/Consular assistance the same as any British family abroad who find themselves in trouble and that is precisely what they got.

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Afternoon all,

I'm quite dumbfounded that even the McCanns are endeavouring to get the police to release the files. And as you know, I'm not dumbfounded very often. (Hello Pros! Sorry you're just dumb).

In a feeble smokescreen that's fooling nobody, they imply that they merely want to see what evidence there is about potential abductors. Bit of a coincidence that they suddenly feel the urge to see this information at what looks like being the climax of the investigation against themselves...

It's occurred to me that Bundleman and the other 'sightings' served another purpose - not only of turning the PJ's attention away from Kate and Gerry, but also (they hoped) of using up limited police manpower and resources. The irony here is that this only made people even more suspicious of them, so crudely was all this handled by Metodo 3.

Oh, and for any Pros who might be reading this, today's assignment takes the form of a little investigation of your own: look up the word 'irony' and see if you can understand what the definition says and how the concept is used in the English language. Especially by writers. Well done!

X LGC

"You can't get nastier and more amoral than LGC."

Is my new signature too long, do you think?? I'm so proud of it, though...

viv said...

Hiya LGC

The sooner the McCanns realise the Police will pursue their own agenda and not the false trail the McCanns wanted to send them on the less frustrated they will be I am sure.

Sometimes in life, it is best to accept, that try as you might, you cannot change the inevitable!

Viv x

mandarinn said...

Viv it was reported here on nespapers, that when GB come to firm Lisbon Treat, firstly had a private chat with Socrates about the Mccanns case.It never was denied, and the mccans come to brxels tp publicize Amber Allert , what already was done by Margarida Sousa Uva, Dur~ao Barroso wife, who is menber of an association of lost children in portugal.
However, i hope it become diferent when it envolves, now, british institutions. Because, i'm very sorry Viv but much of the people close mccans doesn't respected Portuguese institutions, i felt very angry about it.
But, on the end ,what interest is justice will be done, and children will be protected

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Viv,

I feel very sad for the McCanns that they are not as nasty or as amoral than me...perhaps events might have taken a different turn for them had they been.

:)

X LGC (Never mind Who's the Daddy, guys? What about Who's the Arguido, then?)

docmac said...

LGC

Irony: Wot u do wif yer cloves wen their cleened. Simpl.

viv said...

Hi Mandarin

I am suspicious of Barroso and his wife and their aspirations to further a political cause. I understand Barroso has said that if they do not get the required number of signatures by 24 July he will give them an extension until September. I think it is wholly wrong for political figures such Barroso and McMillan-Scott to use the McCanns to push forward a political issue for them. Totally wrong in fact and quite immoral. Even on the basis of the information clearly in the public domain, this couple are simply not suitable to represent any scheme to protect children, they are self-confessed and serious child neglectors. If they were being used to further the message do not under any circumstances leave tiny children alone, then I would wholeheartedly support that. But the message seems to be if you leave your children alone and one of them then gets abducted do not worry ...Amber Alert. It sends entirely the wrong message, closing the stable door after the horse already bolted!

I think it was entirely reasonable for Socrates and Brown to discuss the McCann case, it has attracted international interest and clearly had the potential to cause poor relations between two countries who have historically always been staunch allies. In a political sense it would be their duty to take steps to prevent that from happening.

I do not believe that reasonable British people disrespect Portugal and its institutions. However, I certainly do believe there has been a bitter and vindictive campaign orchestrated against Portuguese Police by the McCanns. That campaign has now changed focus to turn its attention against Leicester Police, the reason for that to me is very clear, Portugal will not be prosecuting the McCanns, we will!

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Dokmak,

Ta. [SNIFF] Dimond geezer, ain't yer.

LGC

"You can't get nastier and more amoral than LGC."

docmac said...

I like it wen a story has amoral.

viv said...

LGC

Speaking of things that make you laugh:

"Vile and her snot green blog from hell"

I have always said that this little coven of Pink Bloggers behave like 13 year old schoolroom bullies and I have not changed that view, but such comments do make me laugh:-))))

Viv x

Joe said...

Two things 1) If Mitchell said the court is to get documents re Madeline sightings then its probably a lie, (he lies with as many teeth as is in his head remember that qoute from the PJ official) One cannot take anything he says as true.

2) The SS would be failing in their duty if they had not sought a WOC or care order for Madeline and the twins as both parents are suspects in the disappearance of one child and neglect or homicide have not been ruled out. The SS would not have had a leg to stand on if something had happened to to the twins, so officailly it appears the SS have an order and if it was anybody else the children would have been taken into care IMO.

LittleGreyCell said...

Docmac,

And the amoral of the McCanns story is...well, how long have you got??

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv,

An attack by the Pros reminds me how Margaret Thatcher described Geoffrey Howe's resignation speech as "like being savaged by a dead sheep".

:)

Zodiac said...

Look at this. Remember how ROTB was disgracefully treated on Alsabella's blog.

Stevo wrote:
Gerry's Blog Day 407 is currently a link to a Microsoft Word download as the entry doesn't appear on the site. When you look at his blog entry and check the file properties, you get this information:

The file properties did not copy they can be viewed here:

http://www.the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16483

and


Notice the reference to "UHL" - University Hospitals Leicester.

Notice also that he edited the file 4 times and over 164 minutes (almost 3 hours). Look also at the time it was last saved (11:34am today).

Considering the bloke is supposed to be at work treating patients on the NHS, why is he writing his stupid blog while at work and on work's computer(s)?

EDITED TO ADD: Why did it take so long to write less than 450 words?


Some posters responses:

hahaha

i already wrote on another thread that nobody knows what he does when he is tucked away in his little office looking at "files and xrays or whatever"

he is blogging away - reading all these forums keeping away from kate and her whining voice

what a cheek - at least my time on the computer is loss of money for myself - we the public are paying for his time at work

someone should inform his employers that he is wasting valuable time on computers at work

he has no shame at all - you think he even cares about work now when he is suspect in a possible murder case?

_________________
earthspirit_truthseeker on the mirror forum

bonnybraes1

Oh, the cheapskate! Using employer's facilities on employer's time. People have been sacked for less than that, Dr Gerry!

CaboFrio

Yes, using a company computer to contribute to inane Internet Forums whilst at work.

tabs

might not be a bad thing i would imagine his employers would be only to glad to let the nice policeman examine his computer
when the time comes

if they haven't already

Stevo



It's amazing. The FindMadeleine website must have been undergoing some updates. I looked about 30 mins ago and it presented me with the download of that word document. Now the site is working properly. I think my find was a rare glitch they didn't plan on.

I guess we could voice our concerns to investigation@findmadeleine.com or by using the complaint form at Glenfield Hospital: (http://www.uhl-tr.nhs.uk/patients/suppo ... contact-us)

Stella by Starlight


Stevo

Nice one !!! Perhaps we should inform someone at the Hospital that one of their employee's is comitting an offence, and that they should be dismissed.

Gerry has "far to much spare time on his hands"...

atardi said...

Hi everyone,

Have been very busy after the "Dutch Fall last saturday";)

Viv,

Thanks for explaining the WOC thing. At first I didn't understand it.
Viv, forgive me my bad English.
Why would parents want WOC for one child when they have 3 kids? And we know that all 3 of them were neglected during their stay in PDL.

If it's true that K&G wanted WOC (only for Madeleine)is it because they knew that Madeleine would never be found and thought that they would get 100% support from England?

They really underestimated Portugal.

atardi said...

Zodiac,

I think you must post this again this evening.

OMG. If Gerry is still working part-time this means that he goes to his work just to blog. I thought he was very busy working on a research fellowship.

---------------------------

Page last updated at 11:29 GMT, Thursday, 1 May 2008 12:29 UK
E-mail this to a friend Printable version
Profile: Gerry and Kate McCann

Kate and Gerry McCann
Kate and Gerry McCann were thrown into the public spotlight

Gerry and Kate McCann were thrust into the public eye - and under the media microscope - when their daughter Madeleine disappeared.

Before this, the couple, both doctors, brought up Madeleine and her younger siblings Sean and Amelie in the quiet village of Rothley in Leicestershire.

But when their daughter vanished, everything changed.

From that moment their lives, beliefs and behaviour were scrutinised, and Rothley was quiet no more, as their home became a focus of global media attention.

Even their local Post Office was bombarded - not with questions like the couple themselves, but with three crates of mail that arrived for them each day.

Working lives

When the couple first appealed for help to find their daughter, 39-year-old Gerry was the more vocal.

He addressed the press packed into the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz, while Kate, also 39, mostly stood in silence by his side, holding his hand and clutching Madeleine's favourite toy, Cuddle Cat.

Often appearing tired and strained, the sudden weight of the world's media seemed to visibly weigh her down.

Before Madeleine disappeared, Kate, who is from Liverpool, worked as a GP at Latham House Surgery in Leicestershire.

We are not characters in a soap opera or a fiction
Gerry McCann

Gerry, originally from Glasgow, was a consultant cardiologist at Leicester's Glenfield Hospital. While his wife has yet to return to work, he chose to go back part-time in November.

Around the same time, he also told The Times he had decided to go ahead with a research fellowship he was awarded by the British Heart Foundation after Madeleine vanished.

He told the newspaper that although it meant almost nothing to him in terms of professional advancement, it might one day help in the prevention and treatment of heart disease.


Keeping faith

Throughout their time in the media spotlight the McCanns have been surrounded - and defended - by family and friends, especially after they were declared official suspects - or "arguidos" - in September.

Gerry's brother John and sister Philomena have been particularly vocal, rubbishing allegations made against them.
Kate and Gerry McCann with Pope Benedict
Kate McCann showed a picture of Madeleine to the Pope

And Gerry and Kate themselves say on the Find Madeleine website: "Family has always been incredibly important to us."

From the beginning of their ordeal, the McCanns have also cited the importance of their faith in keeping them going.

Kate's belief in Catholicism is long-standing, while her husband is said to have had his renewed during their struggle.

He said that attending Mass in Praia da Luz in the days after Madeleine vanished gave them both "strength, courage and hope".

Nevertheless, Kate broke down publicly at a church service to mark a calendar month after her disappearance, bursting into tears after a young Portuguese girl kissed her during the service.

The couple were granted a brief audience with Pope Benedict XVI in Rome last May.

Kate, visibly upset and close to tears, showed the Pope a photograph of Madeleine, which he blessed.

Legal damages

Over time, the McCanns appear to have become more confident in their handling of the press, despite facing a constant barrage of painful questions.
Daily Express and Daily Star
The McCanns received a public apology from the newspapers

Kate has given some interviews by herself, and last August she appeared in a video posted on the Don't You Forget About Me channel on the YouTube website, set up to help find her daughter and other missing children.

They have also hit back at wilder headlines, winning £550,000 in damages from the Express Newspapers after suggestions they were responsible for Madeleine's death.

In an interview to mark the anniversary of her disappearance, Gerry said he wanted to remind people that despite living their lives in public for a year, they were real human beings.

"We are not characters in a soap opera or a fiction," he said.

----------------------

docmac said...

LGC

Not long enough, I'm afraid. I'll be 50 in 3 years and my time is thus devoted to more important stuff. Like Big Brother for instance.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Docmac

If you can tear yourself away from Big Brother and log on to the following, you will see proof that the pros have been infiltrating quiz programmes.

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2007/quiz-q-a-p1.php

docmac said...

Well here you go anonymous:

"Anonymous said...

ST,
I wonder what would be on Vileda's blog if there were no other blogs to copy and paste from PMSL...

Reading the snot blog it is full of blog posts from sites of Marianna Stupid, 3A crap, McCann files, Paulo Useless, need I go on?.. Rosie's and your sites must be the best because nearly all those are copied Well Done Rosie and ST.

Professer Clawdia ROTFLMASO..

24 June 2008 18:08"



Who's Vileda? And what does the 'S' in ROTFLMASO stand for? You know that I know who you are. Don't make an idiot of yourself again. Just keep Googling 'Docmac' and 'Romigen'. It's minimum wage but it all helps.

LittleGreyCell said...

Docmac,

I think the format of Big Brother needs shaking up a little now...what I propose is Big Sister, featuring Auntie Phil, Gerry, Kate and all their lovely friends.

The tasks would be similar to Big Brother - dress up like you're on holiday (no watches allowed) and after 14 bottles of wine see if you can remember how many kids you had with you; see who can construct the most believable story explaining one the children's disappearance; see how many lies you can tell without anyone guessing you're being untruthful (short task, that one) - you know the kind of thing.

The thing is, the basic food rations might well be a bit of a problem for some (well, one) of the participants...

...but this year's jail is an interesting feature!

I see a Blog Room, too. "Day 3. Kate and I are getting back to normal now and we ran away from the police in record time".

What do you think, doc? Think it's got legs??

docmac said...

ICTOAN

lol!!! Thanks for that. I think you may just be right. Off to bed now. A really early one for me but there's a chocolate on my pillow..

hope4truth said...

LGC

Hello long time no see I hope you are well and your idea of BS is excelent the jail could come in very handy xxx

docmac said...

Crumbs LGC,

I think you have just destroyed any hopes I had of having a good sleep tonight. lolol!!

Goodnight :)

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Hope!

Enjoying the sunshine? Almost beach weather...

That jail doesn't look very big to me - what if it couldn't accommodate all the transgressors?

X

LittleGreyCell said...

Night Doc,

Sleep well (though chocolate is a stimulant - think you should probably save it for Auntie Phil...)

X

ICantThinkOfAName said...

LGC

Should't it be called Celebrity Big Sister??

hope4truth said...

LGC

It will be fine they were so into each other it dosent need to be large..

yes the beach is calling although it has been spitting with rain xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

ICTOAN

Of course! Nice one!!!

How about Celebrity Huge Sister?

:)

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

Now, what can you wear to keep the rain off? Got any favourite designers??

LittleGreyCell said...

Well, my boys are hungry so I'm off to make the supper.

Happy Tuesday evening all!

X

docmac said...

Anonymous said...

docmac said...
LGC

Not long enough, I'm afraid. I'll be 50 in 3 years and my time is thus devoted to more important stuff. Like Big Brother for instance.

24 June 2008 19:21
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LittleGreyCell said...
Viv,

An attack by the Pros reminds me how Margaret Thatcher described Geoffrey Howe's resignation speech as "like being savaged by a dead sheep".

:)

24 June 2008 19:23




Yes that is right folks. No actual comment or response. Sian or Clairesy are practising their new copy and pasting skills or Maureen has been resuscitated again. Doesn't matter which one is true really. Thick as ******* all of them. Nite x.

atardi said...

Docmac,

Je moest toch naar bed? Waarom zo vroeg?

atardi said...

Hey Hope,

Nice to meet you again. (I'm reading back). I have sent you a PM long time ago but never
heard from you again.

How was your working day?

So glad you are still blogging for JFM.

dylan said...

Hello LGC et al.,

It's good to see that everyone has at least had the good fortune of some nice weather today :-)

Nite Docmac, the pros clearly lurve you!

Claudia, my best wishes go to your friend. What a special time! I hope it all goes well & you're not left to deliver - I'd be terrified.

Zodiac, your post of this morning - loool! Must have been a very traumatic time for Posierots (oops! there goes my spoonerisms again!)


Viv, do you have an idea as to how long the decision might take on 7/7? I am assuming LPs case is fairly clear-cut but the McCanns do have some rather good lawyers!

Hope: LGC

It will be fine they were so into each other it dosent need to be large..

very good! I would say ROTFLMAO but since the pink blog call me the "crawler" I should say COTFLMAO!! :-))))

xx

Cláudia said...

Hi, Dylan!
Thank you. Pregnant friend is back home and I'm relieved she did not give birth to her baby girl in the middle of my living room. Now I have my house to put in order. :-)

atardi said...

Nancy,

K&G received more money. There will be an interview on the Belgium tv. I have tried to translate it.

Don't think it will be broadcasted this week but here it goes:

__________________________




'Telefacts Zomer' starts with heavyweights.
23 juni 2008

For 'Telefacts Zomer' Thomas Van Hemeledonck will take you with him during 20 dispatches in a mix of exceptional , open hearted summer reports.

Exclusive for Belgium 'Telefacts Summer' visits the parents of Maddie Mc Cann in their home in England. It is not only the most comprehensive and most recent interview with the parents of the disappeared Madeleine, but certainly also the most open interview. Since the disappearance of their daughter there were uninterrupted suspicions to the address of the parents, they now talk for the first time openly about the mysterious disappearance of their child.

For those who can receive VTM from Belgium follow the next link.

Telefacts Summer', from June 24 on Tuesday and Thursday at vtm. At 22.35
http://www.tv-visie.nl/?pagina=nieuwsbericht&rubrieknr=9&bericht=23628

viv said...

Hiya Dillie

I really do not know as I have no idea how long the application is or how complex. She may give her decision there and then after a short recess or she may reserve it to work on her judgment if the issues are more complex. Also we do not know whether her judgment will be kept confidential or published, but I am hoping it will be published and think this is clearly possible. In fact I think that is why Clarence leaked it to the press in advance because he knows it will be made public anyway. A defeat for them would obviously be very humiliating, they must feel there is some prospect of winning!

If it is only listed for just one day, I am assuming it is a relatively simple application and will be published pretty quick.

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Ok, pregnant friend not home. Pregnant friend at the hospital.:-)

viv said...

Hiya Luke flight delayed so not left yet

Claudia

I take it your friend had a scan so knows she is having a gorgeous little girl. Is she actually in labour or just in for a rest?

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Viv, my friend left my place around half past nine, stopped home and went right to the hospital. She is now in labour. I was right to be relieved she did not give birth in the middle of my living room! :-)

Cláudia said...

Oh, and yes, a little baby girl. Sara is her name. :-)

dylan said...

Cheers, Viv.
Thanks for explaining. It would indeed be very humiliating if they lost, especially if the result is made public. That would leave clarrie spluttering! I don't see how any 'cold trails' are of any use anyway, even if the details were actually going to be handed over to competent detectives in a relevant field ;-)

Hope Luke has had a great time and brought lots of pressies home for mum. :)

Claudia, does this mean the birth is imminent? I feel all broody all of a sudden. Doesn't seem like yesterday since my first-born and that was almost 17 years ago now. Guess I should just look forward to be being a grandma instead. xx

dylan said...

Thanks, Atardi.

Will you be able to give us the gist of the interview in brief?

xx

dylan said...

Claudia - phew! & many congrats to youur friend and baby Sara. xxx

Cláudia said...

Dylan, Sara hasn't been born yet. But the doctors predict the delivery for tonight or tomorrow. My friend is in active labour now. Baby is already being monitored. :-) And I'm here because only one person is allowed to be with her and her mother is the one. I just spoke to her husband who is also waiting and who will pick me up as soon as there is some news! :-)

dylan said...

Good luck Claudia. Someone won't be getting much sleep tonight but it will all be worth it! Hope the labour runs as smoothly as it can.

Goodnight all. xx

Cláudia said...

Thank you, Dylan. No, not planning to sleep at all. But that's not a problem for me. I just spoke to my friend and she told me she isn't feeling any pain yet. And she's in good hands, I believe.
Sleep tight, Dylan.

viv said...

When the McCanns are campaigning for an Amber Alert system across Europe I wonder why they do not mention the Global Alert that was issued by Interpol for Madeleine at the request of the Portuguese Authorities. Did they think this was unhelpful?

http://www.interpol.int/public/News/2007/Yellownotice20070509.asp

INTERPOL issues global alert for missing British child
09 May 2007



INTERPOL has issued a global alert following the disappearance of a three-year-old girl from a holiday resort in Portugal on 3 May.

An INTERPOL Yellow Notice for Madeleine McCann has been circulated to each of INTERPOL’s 186 member countries, after the toddler went missing from an apartment in Praia da Luz in the western Algarve.

The notice was issued at the request of Portuguese authorities who are leading the investigation into the toddler’s disappearance.

INTERPOL Yellow Notices are circulated to help locate missing persons, especially minors, or to help identify persons who are not able to identify themselves.

Anyone who has any information regarding this case is asked to contact their local police or the Portuguese authorities.

viv said...

Given that Interpol have investigated all of these sightings which have all turned out to be false, I wonder just what is it the McCanns now want to investigate and why do they "believe" Metodo 3 could do better than Interpol and Police Forces all over the world? I wonder!

The original wiki article has links to all the stories that have been used to produce it and is a great piece of work! It does place into context just how pathetic these sightings have been, many emanating from Spain after the McCanns were made suspect (nothing to do with the Metodos, now please!) and one where two Portuguese people went and knocked the door in England with Maddie, I think this man seriously lost the plot!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sightings_following_the_disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann


Sightings following the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Main article: Disappearance of Madeleine McCann
On the evening of Thursday, 3 May 2007, shortly before her fourth birthday, a British child, Madeleine McCann, went missing from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve in Portugal, in which she was staying with her parents. The initial investigation by the Guarda Nacional Republicana, the first police to be called to the scene, concluded that she had been abducted.[1] After further investigation, the Polícia Judiciária (Portuguese criminal investigation police) subsequently stated that there was a strong hypothesis that she might have died in her room.[2]

There have been many reported sightings of Madeleine both in Portugal and elsewhere in the world, but none have produced any firm leads. However, several reports have not been conclusively eliminated. On 9 July 2007, the Portuguese police said that they believed that, if still alive, it was likely that the missing girl was still being held in Portugal.[3]

Contents [hide]
1 Value of the sightings
2 Confirmed sightings on 3 May
3 Reported sightings
3.1 In Portugal
3.2 In Morocco
3.3 Elsewhere
4 References



[edit] Value of the sightings
The value of investigating the sightings has been questioned. Criminologist Mark Williams-Thomas said, in May 2008, that sightings in countries, other than Portugal, although genuinely intended, were a distraction and would be of little value after the initial two weeks. He posited the question, who is going to openly walk out with the most wanted child in the world?[4]


[edit] Confirmed sightings on 3 May
The last picture of the child, as supplied by the family, was apparently taken at 14:29, and showed her sitting by the side of the pool with Gerry and Amelie.[5] Although the McCanns insisted that Gerry was playing tennis as Kate gave the children supper at the Ocean Club resort at 17:00, Miguel Matias, manager of the beach-side Paraíso restaurant, said that the family were at the beach. In the early evening Matias saw Gerry dancing with his daughter while the family ate a meal on the terrace. Portuguese police confirmed that they had received relevant CCTV footage from Matias.[6]


[edit] Reported sightings

[edit] In Portugal
Police in the mountainous town of Nelas, northern central Portugal, had received information of a girl matching Madeleine's description who was seen with a man in a supermarket on 8 May 2007.[7] The man, a Belgian citizen, stopped at the supermarket with his daughter and left the place in a car before police were contacted, but police later confirmed that the sighting had been a false alarm.[8][9] People in the resort came forward to report unusual incidents including a woman who noticed a man trying to take away a pram and a man who caught a stranger taking photographs of young blonde girls on a beach.[10][11] Portuguese police also investigated a report by holidaymaker Andre van Wyk. Van Wyk claimed that, shortly after the disappearance, he had seen a girl resembling Madeleine being taken in a cart to a gypsy camp near Portimão, about ten miles (16 km) from where Madeleine disappeared.[12]

On 9 May, the 24 Horas newspaper reported that police had found a vehicle near Praia da Luz that may have been used by the kidnapper.[13] Further, CCTV video from a petrol station near Lagos showed a child matching Madeleine's description with a woman and two men. The child was having an altercation with the woman.[13] The following day it was reported that the car from the petrol station had British number plates and it was claimed that the person caught taking photographs was one of the men on the CCTV footage.[14][11]

An anonymous witness contacted police claiming to have spotted a Fiat Marea with a forged license plate in Pinhal Novo, Palmela, Setúbal on May 17, which allegedly transported the missing child.[15] In the middle of November, a Portuguese trucker telephoned the Método 3 helpline reporting to have seen in the Algarve town of Silves, two days after the disappearance, a blonde woman pass a child wrapped in a blanket to a man, who then 'bundled' her into a car.[16]

Jane Tanner claimed to have seen a man walking away from the apartment, with a sleeping child, at 21:15 on the evening of the disappearance. She added that the child was wearing similar pyjamas to those worn by Madeleine.[17] The McCanns released, on 25 October, an artist's impression of the person. The drawing showed details of the man's hair and clothing but none of his features.[18] On 20 January 2008 the McCanns released a new image of a long-haired man claimed by tourist Gail Cooper to be acting suspiciously, in April, at her apartment 600 yards (550 m) from that of the McCanns. He was said by Tanner to have a "strong resemblance" to the man she had seen.[19]


[edit] In Morocco
Marie Olli, a Norwegian woman living in the Spanish town of Fuengirola, contacted the police on 10 May 2007, claiming she had seen a girl matching Madeleine's description in a petrol station in Marrakech, Morocco. The girl, who was said to have appeared sad, was allegedly accompanied by a man in his late 30s.[20] At about the same time, a British tourist reported seeing Madeleine near the Marrakech Ibis hotel.[21] Though Interpol subsequently discounted these sightings, officers from Leicestershire police remained in Morocco for some days afterwards.[22] A Spanish tourist saw a girl resembling Madeleine as she drove through the town of Zaio in northern Morocco at the end of May.[23] Attention switched back to Morocco on 4 June, after GCHQ in Cheltenham picked up phone intercept messages in Arabic referring to "the little blonde girl", a German man, and a ferry from Tarifa in Spain.[24]

Another Spanish tourist, Isabel Gonzalez, has said that she saw a girl fitting Madeleine’s description being dragged across a street, also in Zaio, by a North African woman on 15 June.[16] Naoual Malhi, a Spanish woman of Moroccan origin, claimed to have spotted the girl with a woman in the village of Fnideq, on 21 August, but private investigators were unable to substantiate the lead.[25] A photograph of a blonde girl being carried on the back of a North African woman was taken on 31 August by Clara Torres, another Spanish tourist, in Zinat in northern Morocco, but it turned out to be a Moroccan girl.[23][26] A school inspector claimed to have seen the child in Karia Ba Mohamed around the start of October, but after enquiries the local police were adamant that she was not there.[27] Also, the Moroccan Interior Minister Chakib Benmoussa said, on 4 November, that there was no evidence to suggest that Madeleine was in Morocco.[28]


[edit] Elsewhere
There were two reported sightings in Belgium. The first was during May 2007 in Liège and the second occurred on 28 July on a café terrace in Tongeren. In the latter case, children’s therapist Katleen Sampermans said that Madeleine was in the company of a Dutch man and an English woman.[29][30] However, the girl turned out to be the 4-year-old daughter of a Belgian man.[31]

Security was tightened in Valletta, Malta on 21 June following five reported sightings on the island. The total sightings had risen to 29 by 27 June.[32][33]

Two women reported seeing a child who looked like Madeleine with a man at a petrol station near Cartagena, Spain, on 21 August. This was discounted after a thorough investigation by the Spanish National Police and Civil Guard.[34]

An Irish tourist reported a sighting in Međugorje, Bosnia at the beginning of November.[35] The child was later revealed to be the 3-year-old daughter of Slavko Dedić, a dentist from the nearby town of Ljubuški.[36]

Dutch student Melissa Fiering claimed that she saw Madeleine with a 'tall, swarthy man', at the L'Arche motorway service station restaurant in the south of France, on 15 February 2008.[37] However the French police, after examining CCTV evidence, determined that the sighting was not of the missing child.[38]

The first reported sighting in Britain occurred in Dorset in February 2008. Retired civil servant Alan Cameron said that she was with a Portuguese couple who came to the door.[39]

A sighting of Madeline McCann was reported in the Sydney central business district on 17 March. The reported sighting, of a middle-aged man carrying a blonde girl, turned out to be a false alarm.[40]

There have been six reported sightings in Brazil. A witness reported seeing Madeleine on a plane flying to São Paulo, in late March. Five earlier reports had been investigated and discounted.[41]


[edit] References
^ "Holiday girl abducted, police say", BBC News, 2007-05-05. Retrieved on 2007-05-14.
^ Richard Edwards. "Madeleine McCann assumed dead", The Daily Telegraph, 2007-08-06. Retrieved on 2007-08-06.
^ "New Suspects Could Be Questioned Soon", Sky News, 2007-07-09. Retrieved on 2007-07-09.
^ Mark Williams-Thomas. "Madeleine: 'My Theories On Missing Girl'", Sky News, 2008-05-01. Retrieved on 2008-05-25.
^ Steve Bird and David Brown. "The last family picture of Madeleine McCann", The Times, 2007-05-24. Retrieved on 2007-05-24.
^ Caroline Gammell. "Madeleine McCann: Gerry certain he was in bedroom with kidnapper", The Daily Telegraph, 2007-09-23. Retrieved on 2007-09-23.
^ "Portugal defends Madeleine police", BBC News. Retrieved on 2007-05-08.
^ João Moniz. "Investigações da PJ seguem 350 pistas", Destak, 2007-05-09. Retrieved on 2007-05-09. (Portuguese)
^ "Police 'step up Madeleine search'", BBC News. Retrieved on 2007-05-08.
^ "Staff At Maddy Resort 'Were Warned Of Suspicious Man'", LifStyle Extra, 2007-05-08. Retrieved on 2007-05-12.
^ a b "£1 million reward for missing Madeleine", Daily Telegraph, 2007-05-12. Retrieved on 2007-05-12.
^ "Pickpocket snatches father's photos of missing Madeleine", The Times, 2007-06-21. Retrieved on 2007-06-23.
^ a b "Video tape may show missing Maddie", iAfrica.com, 2007-05-09. Retrieved on 2007-06-08.
^ "Service Held For Missing Madeleine", Sky News, 2007-05-11. Retrieved on 2007-05-12.
^ "Carro põe polícia em alerta", Jornal de Notícias, 2007-05-17, N°351, Ano 119. (Portuguese)
^ a b Fiona Govan. "'Madeleine Spain sighting' probed", The Daily Telegraph, 2007-11-22. Retrieved on 2007-11-22.
^ David Brown. "Kate and Gerry McCann's friend goes on television to insist: I saw abduction of Madeleine", The Times, 2007-11-17. Retrieved on 2007-11-30.
^ Martin Hodgson. "McCanns release sketch of man seen near apartment", The Guardian, 2007-10-26. Retrieved on 2007-10-27.
^ Karen McVeigh. "Is this the man who abducted Madeleine? Two witnesses give similar descriptions", The Guardian, 2008-01-21. Retrieved on 2008-01-21.
^ Allen, Vanessa. "Can I See Mummy Soon? Tourist says she saw Madeleine in Morocco..pleading with a man", The Daily Mirror, 2007-05-19. Retrieved on 2007-05-20.
^ "'Any Credible Sighting Is Of Interest'", Sky News, 2007-09-24. Retrieved on 2007-09-24.
^ "Brits Follow Cell Phone Signals in Hunt for Madeleine", Fox News, 2007-05-29. Retrieved on 2007-05-29.
^ a b David Brown and Patrick Foster. "New photograph shows child like Madeleine McCann on African woman’s back", The Times, 2007-09-26. Retrieved on 2007-09-26.
^ Richard Edwards and Fiona Govan. "Media 'may have scared Madeleine kidnapper", The Daily Telegraph, 2007-06-05. Retrieved on 2007-09-20.
^ Duncan Hooper. "Detectives probe Madeleine McCann sighting", The Daily Telegraph, 2007-11-03. Retrieved on 2007-11-03.
^ Adam Fresco. "Girl in Morocco picture is daughter of local family, not Madeleine McCann", The Times, 2007-09-26. Retrieved on 2007-09-26.
^ Daniel Cochlin. "Revealed: The remote Moroccan town that could hold the key to finding Madeleine", Daily Mail, 2007-11-04. Retrieved on 2007-11-04.
^ Felix Lowe. "Moroccan authorities deny Madeleine search", The Daily Telegraph, 2007-11-07. Retrieved on 2007-11-07.
^ ;Martin Evans. "I'm Sorry I Didn't Rescue Maddy At Belgian Restaurant", The Daily Express, 2007-08-06. Retrieved on 2007-08-09.
^ Bruno Waterfield. "Madeleine sighting being taken seriously", The Daily Telegraph, 2007-08-04. Retrieved on 2007-08-04.
^ "Revealed: The girl at Belgian café who witnesses thought was missing Madeleine", Daily Mail, 2007-08-20. Retrieved on 2007-08-21.
^ Richard Edwards and Fiona Govan. "Five Madeleine McCann 'sightings' in Malta", The Daily Telegraph, 2007-06-22. Retrieved on 2007-06-25.
^ "Day 55: Vigil As Reporter Backs Up Claim", Sky News, 2007-06-27. Retrieved on 2007-06-27.
^ Press Association. "'Madeleine Spain sighting' probed", The Guardian, 2007-08-23. Retrieved on 2007-08-26.
^ Daniel Boffey. "Now Madeleine hunt turns to Balkans after girl is heard crying for 'Daddy'", Daily Mail, 2007-11-11. Retrieved on 2007-11-11.
^ Neil Sears. "First picture of three-year-old Bosnian girl mistaken for missing Madeleine", Daily Mail, 2007-11-15. Retrieved on 2007-11-15.
^ "Police probe fresh Madeleine McCann sighting in the south of France for 'Daddy'", Daily Mail, 2008-02-20. Retrieved on 2008-02-20.
^ "How common is Madeleine's eye defect?", BBC News, 2008-02-21. Retrieved on 2008-02-21.
^ "Latest Madeleine McCann sighting is in Dorset", The Daily Telegraph, 2008-02-24. Retrieved on 2008-02-25.
^ Howden, Saffron. "Cops scramble over false Madeleine McCann sighting", Daily Telegraph (Sydney), 2008-03-17. Retrieved on 2008-03-17.
^ Aislinn Simpson. "Madeleine McCann 'spotted on plane to Brazil'", The Daily Telegraph), 2008-05-14. Retrieved on 2008-05-17.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sightings_following_the_disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann"

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

I was up early to do my ironing - cooler in the mornings!

As Mark Williams Thomas said:

Who is going to walk out with the most wanted child in he world who is so recognisable by her famous eye.

Thanks for the details of all the sightings which I think are just pie in the sky. I'm sure some of the 'spotters' were genuine, but also a few cranks who wanted to jump on the McCann's bandwagon of fame!

I doubt very much even if G&K do get their way and see details of any other suspected sightings of Madeleine that they will get any good leads because the PJ's would have followed them up if they thought they were genuine.

I think it's all a smokescreen to make the public believe that they themselves believe that Madeleine is still out there!

The only way that Madeleine will be seen again in my opinion, is if they know exactly where she is, and this media circus has all been a complete cover up to gain fame and lots of cash, like many other cases we've all heard about!

All will be revealed in time!

Nx

nancy said...

Viv -

I suspect the McCann's didn't go with the Interpol Global Alert because it wouldn't have given them the chance to take the world stage as did the Amber Alert, and also it was the Portuguese authorities who were involved in it!

nancy said...

Atardi -

Thanks for the link to tv-visie - I'll take a look at that - should be interesting - I suspect the language is Flemish, but no worries, my husband speaks that.

About the Gerry quote:

"Family is incredibly important to us" -

Yes Gerry, so important you left your three children under 4 years old on five consecutive nights while you went out on the town with your equally family minded tapas pals!

As my old Mum used to say - pull the other one, it's got bells on!


Nx

docmac said...

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
docmac said...
LGC

Not long enough, I'm afraid. I'll be 50 in 3 years and my time is thus devoted to more important stuff. Like Big Brother for instance.

24 June 2008 19:21

Well why not, you have devoted the last 14 months to pretending to be a doctor.

24 June 2008 20:51



OK, I'll fess up. I started practising the pretendy doctor thing a month before Madeleine went to Portugal as I knew I'd have a hard time convincing mathematical geniuses like yourself. Funnily enough I did maths too once. All I can remember is the McCann Theory: MC-M=$$$. It's been great fun though. My little set came with a free Lego hospital and a blow-up mountain to put outside my window. Lucky I didn't get you to blow it up, it might have floated away.

BTW, I've always wondered; when someone walks into the office and says "Anonymous, here's that sandwich you wanted", how do you know...Oh, never mind.

Nancy, I don't think Interpol hosts many free lunches for criminals.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Good Morning All


Viv

I see that M3 must have been very busy independently and exhaustively checking the sightings already in the public domain.


ICTOAN

ICantThinkOfAName said...

The Telegraph has an item about a "no face" photofit of a robber issued by Police in South Wales.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2187197/Police-defend-%27no-face%27-photo-fit-of-robber.html


Do others think that Jane Tanner might have been involved in the descripton?

mandarinn said...

good morning all
I have a doubt: if Madeline is a WOC, how come her parents ask information in her behalf?Or is it the WOC responsible who want get information from the police?
Just a doubt.

bath theory said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bath theory said...

About the Gerry quote:

"Family is incredibly important to us" -

There are a certain sort of people who want what others have and they are usually status orientated. So they have to have their new 4x4 car for example, and they aspire to the detached new build in a country location (new build cos they don't have to spend time & money lovingly doing it up!!)

They spend precious hours whilst their children are young doing things that make them look good amongst their set or devoting hours to networking etc. Instead of sitting down getting out finshed cornflake boxes etc and making a rocket or whatever.

They are the sort whose children grow up feeling emotionally deprived and neglected. I deal with the issues such parents cause day in day out.

The answer ? For adults to be true to themselves and ONLY have children if you are prepared to make sacrifices.

A parent who cares about their children does not leave children alone in strange places this way. I use the word 'care' according to the dictionary definition and I am not aware of any other meaning of that word.

Those who seek to manipulate, deceive and distort in order to aid 'progress' and 'better' themselves in life often react in strange ways to the way a child starts to grow up and ask questions. Children often speak with brutal truth in their words in a clear and concise way.

A parent who 'cares' usually finds the time to say sorry and the time to explain. That way the child is nurtured and feels safe and secure. It is not easy but eventually the honesty and sincerity you show falls into place.

If anything is 'incredibly important' to you then you make sure you put it first above all other desires and needs.

Parenting is about sacrificing. (IMO)

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE

mandarinn said...

I'm off now, i will read you later.
Have a nice day all.

bath theory said...

bye mandarin

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hi Mandarin

I also have wondered how the parents can ask for information without the backing of the officials of the Wardship Court. Of course it may be that the hearing on 7 July is also about who does what as far as Madeleine's welfare is concerned. A further step is if it an official who has instigated proceedings, then a knowledge of whether Madeleine is still alive would be relevent as to her continuation as a WOC.

nancy said...

Hi ICTOAN

As far as I can see, the hearing on the 7th July is to try to get access to the information regarding sightings that the PJ's have allegedly not followed up, but which the LP's have access to and quite rightly maintain is not for disclosure to people who are arguidos.

I don't think it's anything to do with Madeleine's Ward of Court status. I should think that will continue until the exact truth of what happened to Madeleine comes to light.

nancy said...

Bath Theory -

Excellent post!

'Parenting is about sacrificing' ....

It must be very sad for you to see young kids who exist in a loveless world! They don't ask to be born after all.

It's good that there are dedicated people, like yourself, who are willing to take on a career to help children learn, and at the same time be there like a surrogate parent to comfort them when you see the need.

Teachers deserve the highest accolade in my opinion! It's not soft cushy job, especially when it comes to teaching teenagers these days.

Nx

nancy said...

I like this comment on Janz1956 blogs on 3A's!

Alistair Stewart said to CM during an interview:

"What use are you? They can't speak - you have nothing new to tell us. What use are you?"

What use indeed!!!

And we might ask the same of Metodo 3!!

Strange we haven't had any more sightings recently or any news from M3! Silence is golden perhaps!

Zodiac said...

Hi all,

Bath Theory,

I agree with Nancy, excellent post. I am so sick of the pathetic excuses they make. KM said something like, if we thought for a second it was not safe we would not have done it. Is she supposed to be intelligent. Did she and he not think for a second about the dangers that 3 little children aged 3 and under could get into when left alone never mind abduction. The sooner this spin is made to stop and they feel the full force of the law the better. I have never felt sympathy for them and I never will. I feel so sorry for their 3 children having parents like them especially M, she is the only one paying for their dispicable behaviour despite saying to the people who should protect her and at least put her and her siblings first, why did you not come when we were crying.

Cláudia said...

Hy, guys!
Pregnant friend back home. The doctors said it was a false alarm and it make take some more days. Now I need to sleep. :-) But before I go I want to´make you smile or even giggle! :-)
....................................

Thank you soo much clasite51!!!
by clairesy Today at 12:06 pm

Thank you clasite51 for posting this info from brians..ive missed reading him soo much. Some of the things posted on there give me shivers up my spine...especially when they are so familiar, if not the same as drawings and words posted in brians dd's.

I know I wont be the only one to appreciate this info being posted here. There are others here who regularly read brians..daily infact. Ive read things on his site and gone searching the web for them to.Amasing some of the things being said on there.I believe that together with the info on brians and merlin's...this case could very well be a step further to being solved.

Thanks again clasite51 much appreciated.

Zodiac said...

Claudia,

Hope your friend has her baby soon.
Sleep well.

bath theory said...

Di
My football prediction for tonight is Germany 3 Turkey 1.

nancy said...

Viv -

Just in case you come on here first - I've sent you an e-mail which you will find of interest!


Nx

nancy said...

Hi all -

Just to let you know that there's a documentary about Sarah's Law on ITV at 9.00pm.

I shall watch it with interest!

See you later.

Nx

Di said...

Bath Theory

How about Germany to win on penalties :o)))))

Di said...

Bath theory

You won the bet 3-2 :o))

Spain to win tomorrow!!

Di said...

Sorry, off now..

Catch you all tomorrow, but it will be later on as I am away for the day.

Happy posting..

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Nancy

I watched the Sarah’s Law Programme for 2 reasons:

1) Because of Madeleine, and
2) It all happen close to where I live and I know the various ares referred
to.

I was very moved by it.

I think my greatest lmpression is the difference in the TV appeals and interviews following the disapperance between Sara (and also other family members) and Kate McCann.

What a marvellous, brave and intelligent woman is Sara Payne.

It was also interesting to get a flavour of the work of the FSS.

ICTOAN

nancy said...

ICTOAN -

I've just finished watching and I found that the dignity of Sarah Payne and her family and their genuine grief made the parents and family of Madeleine seem remote in comparison.

That poor little girl who just happened to wander off away from her brother and sister because at 8years old she would feel able to leave her brothers and sister and be a bit adventurous.

I agree with Sarah Payne - all paedophiles should be on a register and people living in the same area should be warned about them.

In my opinion anyone convicted of a crime like that should never be let out of prison and I'm glad the authorities have said he will spend the rest of his life there. I think that should go for all paedophiles quite frankly, because we should be protecting our children not these low lifes.

I was sad for the children left that their parents separated though because having lost a sister it would have been so much more of a comfort if their parents had stayed together.

It was amazing how that woman spotted the shoe - that must have been fate, and it certainly sealed the fate of the beast who killed Sarah.

Nx

nancy said...

Well done Germany, although I think Turkey played a great game too.

Let's hope Spain win tomorrow!

Off for the night now - going to sit outside where it's cooler!

Have a good rest of the night!


Nx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I can't but agree with all you have just written.

Did you notice the many "no comments" when the (then) suspect was questioned by the Police.

Cláudia said...

Hey, guys.
Really tired. Almost didn't sleep last night. Friend still pregnant. After being monitored the whole night, the doctors sent her home and told her that Sara doesn't seem to want to be born yet. She's almost 37 weeks pregnant so there's no problem. The limit time is on the 17th of July but the doctor who has been following her seems to think it will be before that. You should have seen her husband yesterday. He was so nervous when he knew my friend was in labour and then disappointed when the doctor told them it was a false alarm. :-)
What's new if anything?
I don't think I can manage to stay up much longer.
P.S: What a great game it was! :-)

Cláudia said...

Thank you, Zodiac.
Only slept for an hour in the afternoon. Had to go out despite the hot weather. No baby yet. Mum to be back home with orders to rest for three days.
xxxx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Viv

You have mail!

Cláudia said...

Hi, ICTOAN! :-)
Is there anything new? Haven't been that informed in the last couple of days. :-)

nancy said...

ICTOAN -

Just before I go for the night - yes, I did hear all the 'no comments' from the murdering low life.

When you think the police let him go because they couldn't hold him without evidence, he could quite easily have gone off and killed another little child.

It proves to me that anyone who has previous form and is a known sex offender or paedophile should not be allowed to get away with refusal to answer police questions. It makes the police look stupid and just encourages crime and makes a mockery of the law.

The problem is these low life scum take advantage of living in a free society. In other countries they would just be thrown to the wolves!

Justice for Madeleine and all vulnerable children.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hi Claudia

Fresh news is very scarce at the moment andthe blog is unusually quiet. Everybody seems to be looking towards 7th July.

I have just received a chain e-mail which started from Phil McCann askin everyone to pass on a look out for Madeleine message.
"
I have sent it to Viv as I know not how to post it on this site.

With the news of your friend Sara I have been playing a beautiful piece of music over and over again by the late, great Esbjorn Svensson called Ballad for the Unborn".

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, try just copy pasting the text here. If you can't, don't worry. Viv will take care of it later.
The unborn baby girl is called Sara. The mother, my best friend, is Sandra. That piece has a beautiful name. Thank you.

docmac said...

What's new Claudia?

I got myself a waterproof banner for the football tomorrow. See the little change in my avatar? ;-))

Oh, forgot to mention I'm back to :-)))

And there has been hell on 3A with someone stealing another's identity.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

The e-mail has photos which is my problem.

If you read back to just after 2100 you will see that Nancy and I have been watching the TV programme about Sarah Payne and the way her mother Sara has reacted to her murder.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, the problem with Blogger is that it is not possible to post pictures. Just use them as an avatar.

Doc, are you back, back? :-)
I though about you yesterday, when I was with my friend. False alarm. The poor girl is back home, very tired and very big because it is not easy to be pregnant with this heat!
Haven't been around much for obvious reasons and have no idea about the 3 A.

Cláudia said...

P.S: Doc, what a great game today's was. Did expect so much opposition from Turkey.
Your new addition to your avatar is very appropriate.

docmac said...

Didn't see tonight's game. I hope your friend is well. I'll have to go back and read about it as I'm not sure what you're talking about. Tired now too.

dylan said...

ICTOAN,

I watched it too. I was in two minds as to whether I should as it upset me so much when it happened.

Among many of the heartbreaking things that Sara said, was something about the funeral: Sarah loved princess things and she said "I had wanted to give her a funeral for a princess because I know I will never be able to give her a princess wedding"
The other was when she saw Sarah's school'boyfriend' outside the shop and realised he was sixteen. I can't imagine how that must feel, to always wonder what Sarah may have become, looked like and been at each milestone of her potential life. It must be unimaginably painful.Sara Payne, is an incredible lady, a loving mother and a credit to our society. I felt so upset afterwards that I had to watch trash tv to take my mind off of it. If I can't bear to go back to how I felt when I heard the news that year, it is a remarkable feat that Sara has achieved to remain so touchingly stoical (if that makes sense) and campaign for a good in the name of her daughter.If Sarah could see her mother, she would be proud of her strength and convictions & for the love that those characteristics perpetuate.


For Sarah, Madeleine and all of the children who have suffered.
@-,-'- xxx

Off to bed. Goodnight all. xx

Cláudia said...

Doc, you missed a great game.
Don't worry. My best friend is very pregnant and yesterday she lost a little blood, went to hospital and we all thought the baby was arriving, including the doctors because there was a bit of dialation going on already. After being monitored all night, she was sent home with orders to rest for 3 days. Unless her unborn baby girl pulls another prank, that is! :-)

Cláudia said...

Boa noite, Dylan.

docmac said...

Yep I just read that. 37+ weeks qualifies as term so any time is OK now. Sounds like you may need a bit more rest :-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, her husband doesn't have the same schedule all the time and sometimes she is alone. Yesterday, I was with her and was praying she didn't go into labour in the middle of my living room. False alarm it was.

docmac said...

I hope she doesn't pop the sac on your couch, lol!

Cláudia said...

Doc, exactly! lolol
That's why I asked her every two minutes if she was feeling ok. And she was, apart from very swollen feet.

docmac said...

Ah well, swollen feet would be par for the course if not related to any other problems. Any piles? :-)))

Cláudia said...

Doc, I hope her husband won't be working tomorrow. If he is and she sneezes I'll take her to hospital! :-)

docmac said...

Oh oh, I just realised some smart aleck is going to miss the full stop between 'that' and '37' in my 23:32 post and thus misinterpret it. Here come the Wikusations lololol!!!

Cláudia said...

Doc, lololol

docmac said...

While we're on the subject Claudia I see you posted something to make people smile yesterday. I've just seen a better one. Give me a minute.

Cláudia said...

Doc, did I? I don't remember! Sleep deprivation it is. :-)

docmac said...

Re: Interpol investigates 'sighting' of Madeleine McCann on a plane to Sao Paulo

Post by sian Today at 8:21 pm
hi china and clairsey

i do not know what has happened with this sighting how ever it is a resonable possibility that tis could have very easily been madeline,i do not rule any sighting out nor would i disreguard information, as it would not be in maddies best intrest.

i wonder what would happen if everyone disreguarded information?

kind reguards

sian


Last edited by sian on Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling error)


Want a competition to see how many other spelling errors there are? And I'm not even getting on the punctuation and grammar bus. How Great Britian once was hey. Jesus I'd love to have a word with this girl's parents.

Cláudia said...

Doc, lololololol
The most hilarious part is the "edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling error". lolololol
Believe me, when a non native speaker could correct a native speaker, it's bad.

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