22 Jun 2008

MCCANNS V LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE

UPDATED, 22/4/10, As a lot of people clearly believe the spin that Mitchell put out in the Daily Telegraph report below dated 21 June 2008, that the McCanns made Madeleine a Ward of Court themselves in 2007, I thought I would include the Order that Mrs Justice Hogg wanted making public that actually confirms it was she who made Madeleine a Ward a few months before Clarence spun this lie on 2 April 2008. The McCanns repeatedly misrepresent matters in this way in the press and it is right that the truth should be pointed out, of course they also lost their application to force the police to disclose their file of papers also having to back down and just accept back what they handed to the police in the first place, some 81 pieces of information handed to the police by their solicitors who had not kept copies. The McCanns apparently wanted to get their Spanish detectives to re-investigate what the proper police had already investigated. Yes, this bunch who told us they would have Maddie home for Christmas and were charging £50,000 per month apparently.

I am afraid it also confirms that the repeated claims of Goncalo Amaral that Madeleine is dead, she died in the apartment, were clearly also a matter of spin, presumably to sell his best selling book on the subject. Cashing in on a missing little girl is just horrendous behaviour, no matter which side of the fence it comes from.

IN THE MATTER OF MADELEINE BETH MCCANN

Judgment of Mrs Justice Hogg at the High Court, Family Division, RCJ, London,
7th July 2008, in open court

Madeleine went missing on 3 May 2007 just a few days before her 4th birthday, while she was holidaying with her family in the Algarve in Portugal.

On 17 May 2007 Madeleine’s parents invoked the jurisdiction of this Court under the Inherent Jurisdiction of the Court, and The Child Abduction and Custody Act, and the Hague Convention. They sought various orders and directions aimed at ascertaining the whereabouts and recovery of Madeleine. I became involved with the proceedings shortly afterwards.

On 2 April 2008 Madeleine became a Ward of this Court, and since that date has remained a Ward.

At all times jurisdiction was assumed by the Court because, there being no evidence to the contrary, it is presumed Madeleine is alive.

She is a British Citizen, and like her parents habitually resident here.

The current application was made on 2 April 2008 by the parents seeking disclosure of information and documents from the Chief Constable of Leicestershire to assist them and their own investigations in their search for Madeleine. Such are the complexities of the issues involved other interested parties were invited and joined to the application, and directions given for the hearing today.

The parties have reached an accommodation whereby the Chief Constable will provide to Madeleine’s parents contact details of members of the public who had themselves contacted the parents or their solicitors, and which on receipt were immediately passed to the Chief Constable, together with a brief resume of the information given.

The parents do not wish to pursue other aspects of the application, and save for the draft consent order being approved by this Court wish to withdraw their application and seek leave to do so.

I have no criticism of the parents in making this application. They have behaved responsibly and reasonably throughout.

I have considered the documents provided to this Court by the various parties, and have concluded that the agreement reached by the parties is entirely appropriate, and that the parents should be permitted to withdraw the balance of their application.

I will make the Order by Consent as sought. In particular paragraph 1 of the Order made on the 22 May 2007 shall be varied with the words:

“The terms of this paragraph shall not apply to the Chief Constable of Leicestershire or any other United Kingdom law enforcement agency. And for the avoidance of doubt all the evidence submitted to the Court and the Case Summaries and Skeleton Arguments remain confidential to the Court save that the Chief Constable may use his discretion to disclose his evidence, case summary and skeleton arguments filed in this Court and the Orders of 22 May 2007, 2 April 2008 and this Order. Any other documents and their contents are not to be disclosed to any person or published save in accordance with Orders already made by the Court or further Order of the Court”.

It may be noted that neither of the Parents is present today. I let it be known last week that providing their legal team was fully instructed neither parent need be present, and I would not criticise or bear any ill-feeling towards them if they chose to stay away. It was my decision as they have suffered enough, and I wished to ease their burden.

I know the police authorities and other official law enforcement agencies in this country, in Portugal and elsewhere have striven and will continue to strive to trace Madeleine.

I urge anyone who has any information however small or tenuous to come forward now so that further enquiries can be made.

There is, of course, as least one person who knows what has happened to Madeleine, and where she may be found.

I ponder about that person: whether that person has a heart and can understand what it must be like for Madeleine to have been torn and secreted from her parents and siblings whom she loves and felt secure with, and whom no doubt misses and grieves for. Whether that person has a conscience or any feeling of guilt, remorse or even cares about the hurt which has been caused to an innocent little girl: whether that person has a faith and belief, and what explanation or justification that person will give to God.

I entreat that person whoever and wherever you may be to show mercy and compassion, and come forward now to tell us where Madeleine is to be found.

I hope and pray that Madeleine will be found very soon alive and well.

I confirm the Wardship and Madeleine will remain a Ward of Court until further Order of the Court. The case will be reserved to myself subject to my availability.

http://madeleinemccann.org/main/2008/1761/in-the-matter-of-madeleine-beth-mccann/








IN THE MATTER OF MADELEINE BETH MCCANN

Judgment of Mrs Justice Hogg at the High Court, Family Division, RCJ, London,
7th July 2008, in open court

Madeleine went missing on 3 May 2007 just a few days before her 4th birthday, while she was holidaying with her family in the Algarve in Portugal.

On 17 May 2007 Madeleine’s parents invoked the jurisdiction of this Court under the Inherent Jurisdiction of the Court, and The Child Abduction and Custody Act, and the Hague Convention. They sought various orders and directions aimed at ascertaining the whereabouts and recovery of Madeleine. I became involved with the proceedings shortly afterwards.

On 2 April 2008 Madeleine became a Ward of this Court, and since that date has remained a Ward.

At all times jurisdiction was assumed by the Court because, there being no evidence to the contrary, it is presumed Madeleine is alive.

She is a British Citizen, and like her parents habitually resident here.

The current application was made on 2 April 2008 by the parents seeking disclosure of information and documents from the Chief Constable of Leicestershire to assist them and their own investigations in their search for Madeleine. Such are the complexities of the issues involved other interested parties were invited and joined to the application, and directions given for the hearing today.

The parties have reached an accommodation whereby the Chief Constable will provide to Madeleine’s parents contact details of members of the public who had themselves contacted the parents or their solicitors, and which on receipt were immediately passed to the Chief Constable, together with a brief resume of the information given.

The parents do not wish to pursue other aspects of the application, and save for the draft consent order being approved by this Court wish to withdraw their application and seek leave to do so.

I have no criticism of the parents in making this application. They have behaved responsibly and reasonably throughout.

I have considered the documents provided to this Court by the various parties, and have concluded that the agreement reached by the parties is entirely appropriate, and that the parents should be permitted to withdraw the balance of their application.

I will make the Order by Consent as sought. In particular paragraph 1 of the Order made on the 22 May 2007 shall be varied with the words:

“The terms of this paragraph shall not apply to the Chief Constable of Leicestershire or any other United Kingdom law enforcement agency. And for the avoidance of doubt all the evidence submitted to the Court and the Case Summaries and Skeleton Arguments remain confidential to the Court save that the Chief Constable may use his discretion to disclose his evidence, case summary and skeleton arguments filed in this Court and the Orders of 22 May 2007, 2 April 2008 and this Order. Any other documents and their contents are not to be disclosed to any person or published save in accordance with Orders already made by the Court or further Order of the Court”.

It may be noted that neither of the Parents is present today. I let it be known last week that providing their legal team was fully instructed neither parent need be present, and I would not criticise or bear any ill-feeling towards them if they chose to stay away. It was my decision as they have suffered enough, and I wished to ease their burden.

I know the police authorities and other official law enforcement agencies in this country, in Portugal and elsewhere have striven and will continue to strive to trace Madeleine.

I urge anyone who has any information however small or tenuous to come forward now so that further enquiries can be made.

There is, of course, as least one person who knows what has happened to Madeleine, and where she may be found.

I ponder about that person: whether that person has a heart and can understand what it must be like for Madeleine to have been torn and secreted from her parents and siblings whom she loves and felt secure with, and whom no doubt misses and grieves for. Whether that person has a conscience or any feeling of guilt, remorse or even cares about the hurt which has been caused to an innocent little girl: whether that person has a faith and belief, and what explanation or justification that person will give to God.

I entreat that person whoever and wherever you may be to show mercy and compassion, and come forward now to tell us where Madeleine is to be found.

I hope and pray that Madeleine will be found very soon alive and well.

I confirm the Wardship and Madeleine will remain a Ward of Court until further Order of the Court. The case will be reserved to myself subject to my availability.

http://madeleinemccann.org/main/2008/1761/in-the-matter-of-madeleine-beth-mccann/





Hi All,

As you know, it has been mysteriously leaked that on 7 July, Kate and Gerry will enter into a legal battle with Leicestershire Police demanding disclosure of police files in relation to "sightings" of Madeleine. It is claimed that the legal advice they received early on was that they should make Madeleine a Ward of the British Court. It is certainly true they were receiving assistance from family lawyers at a very early stage and I have to say it baffled me as to why they would be doing this. Gerry commented at an early stage that it was not their plan to use private investigators but the fund had enabled them to get a lot of lawyers in place, presumably including these family lawyers. It seems to me that when faced with the situation that all three children had been neglected by Kate and Gerry and one had gone missing in Portugal, Leicestershire Social Services may have decided to make the children Wards of Court. Wardship proceedings are rarely used, the procedure that is normally used is for the Local Authority to carry out an investigation under the Children Act and then either place the children on the at risk register or, in more serious cases to apply to the Court for an Emergency Protection Order followed by formal Care Proceedings. However, wardship would be appropriate where the children are out of the jurisdiction, as in this case. This gives the Court the power to make orders as to the care and wellbeing of the children on the basis the court is satisfied they are at risk of serious physical or emotional harm, or both. As we know, Kate and Gerry sought to suggest, via John McCann that the visit from Leicestershire Social Services on their return was "at their behest". Of course, this would not be true, the SSD would be under a statutory duty to investigate matters further as soon as they returned to UK. We also know from Philomena that Kate was "terrified of the twins being taken from her".

This court hearing is just one week prior to the date when Portuguese are due to make their police file available to Kate and Gerry McCann. We know that evidence has been passed on to Leicestershire Police. I wonder if the Portuguese Police are therefore only going to make limited disclosure, perhaps in relation to certain offences where the investigation is now completed. I have always thought that the McCanns offending behaviour extended far beyond 3 May 2007. It has continued with fraudulently encouraging the public to keep giving them money to search for Madeleine. Clearly all the false sightings would achieve the stated aim of Kate and Gerry McCann is seeking to remind the public Madeleine is still missing, Gerry confessed in June 2007 he was extremely worried the media would just forget about this case. Clearly there is no way he was going to allow that to happen. The Portuguese Police, as we know, have been investigating, kidnapping, homicide, abandonment and disposal of corpse, but there are more offences than that.. false sightings and very serious fraud. I believe the McCanns are desperate to know what Leicestershire Police have against them in relation to these matters. I also believe that the McCanns will be prosecuted in the UK in relation to all matters. The police are always loathe to allow suspects to have details of the evidence against them because they can then start manufacturing further false evidence as a defence. I have no doubt that is why Leicester Police will be strenuously opposing the application the McCanns are making. From the article below it would seem the McCanns seriously expect a High Court Judge to order that police hand over part of their files to "Metodo 3". I have a feeling the police will have something to say about this firm. I am sure the police will also point out it is not up to prime suspects to dictate to the police that their investigation is compromised and damaged by handing over evidence against directly to the prime suspects. The McCanns just continue to act like a couple of desperate criminals, but still, the likes of which I have never seen before, truly, leaving so stone unturned.

I have also included an article that was referred on last thread by other posters which is very helpful, where Philomena actually refers to the fact the family will prevent the children becoming wards of court! Whenever children are at risk with their immediate family, SSD generally will try and place the children with other relatives wherever possible, but Philomena seems to confirm in this article the wardship threat was coming from the SSD, certainly not that it emanated from Kate and Gerry themselves.



Madeleine McCann: parents' court bid for information
By Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter
Last Updated: 3:08AM BST 21/06/2008
Kate and Gerry McCann are to ask a High Court judge to order the release of police documents which they hope will kick-start the search for their missing daughter Madeleine, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.
Kate and Gerry McCann are determined to everything necessary to search for their daughter
The McCanns hope their application to Mrs Justice Hogg will result in Leicestershire Police opening their files on scores of reported sightings of Madeleine, most of which have been passed on to them by police in Portugal, where the four-year-old disappeared in May last year.
Until now police in Leicestershire, the McCanns' home county, have refused the couple's requests for information about sightings, saying they are bound by the terms of an agreement with Portuguese police.
But Mr and Mrs McCann, who retain the services of a Spanish-based detective agency, are anxious to make sure that every possible lead has been checked out, which they believe the Portuguese police, whose investigation is gradually being wound down, may not be able to do.
The Telegraph can also disclose that Madeleine was made a ward of court last summer at the request of the McCanns, to empower judges to act in her best interests in any legal dispute such as the case which is about to be heard.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns’ spokesman, said: “I can state that on the instigation of Gerry and Kate McCann Madeleine is a ward of the High Court of England and Wales.
“An application has been made on Madeleine’s behalf by her parents for disclosure of certain documents. The hearing is currently scheduled for July 7 in the High Court in London.
“It has been the stated intention of Gerry and Kate McCann to leave no stone unturned in doing everything necessary to search for their daughter, as would any parent.
“This application is just part of their search for Madeleine.”
Madeleine’s status as a ward of court has never been disclosed by her parents, who quietly made a wardship application in the High Court just weeks after she went missing.
The couple’s legal team had advised them to ask for Madeleine to be made a ward of court because wardship status gives the courts certain statutory powers to act on her behalf in legal disputes such as the one which has arisen with Leicestershire police.
They still believe their daughter is alive and hope the police files may contain information which could yet lead to a breakthrough.
The case is listed to be heard in open court on July 7 in the Family Division of the High Court in London, and is expected to be contested by Leicestershire Police, according to legal sources.
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said: "Kate and Gerry have always said that they will do whatever is necessary to find Madeleine and that they will leave no stone unturned in their search for their daughter.
"They will take whatever legal steps are necessary if there is information out there that can assist their private investigation into finding Madeleine. Beyond that I cannot make any comment."
Mr Mitchell said the hearing would not involve any attempt by the McCanns to clear their names by proving they were not involved in their daughter's disappearance from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz. They remain official suspects, or arguidos, in Portugal.
In recent months the couple have become increasingly frustrated at the slow progress of the Portuguese investigation, and they suspect that many possible sightings of Madeleine have not been followed up at all.
If they are given access to the police files on reported sightings, each one will be looked into by private investigators retained by the couple.
For the past year the McCanns have employed Metodo 3, a Barcelona-based detective agency, to carry out an investigation in parallel with the Portuguese police inquiry.
The agency has checked out sightings as far afield as North Africa and South America – all of which have proved to be false – using either its own staff or affiliated firms, which it says it can do far more quickly than the police.
In one instance earlier this year, the agency ruled out a sighting of Madeleine in Chile within three hours of receiving a tip-off, by employing local investigators to track down the girl concerned. The agency argues that police would have taken days to achieve a similar result because they would have been hampered by bureaucracy and official procedure.
Earlier this week Portugal's Attorney General suggested that police files may be opened up at the end of July, but the McCanns fear his comments may prove to be another false dawn.
Their case is being heard in the Family Division because it involves the welfare of a child. Mrs Justice Hogg, a specialist in child welfare cases, is the sister of former cabinet minister Douglas Hogg and the daughter of former Lord Chancellor Lord Hailsham.


Madeleine: Now British police ask if twins are 'at risk'By SAM GREENHILL, DAN NEWLING and NEIL SEARSLast updated at 08:11 11 September 2007
Comments (128)
The McCanns are under investigation from British police and social services to assess whether their twin son and daughter are at risk.
Given the gravity of the allegations facing the McCanns, social services have no choice but to examine any possible risk to young children who have endured four months in the glare of the media spotlight.
The couple awoke yesterday after their first night back in the village of Rothley since they flew home on Sunday without Madeleine.
When they realised, last Thursday, that Mrs McCann was to be made an official suspect in the disappearance of her daughter, they vowed to remain in Portugal to clear her name. However, during 13 hours of interrogation, Portuguese detectives threatened her with the terrible ultimatum of confessing - or losing her twins.
Scroll down for more ...

Gerry McCann opens the door to a policeman yesterday
Read more...
Madeleine: Full DNA match of missing girl 'under carpet in car boot'
Hunt for body moves to church where McCanns prayed
McCanns call in heavyweight lawyers to clear their name
Officers said they would charge both her and her husband in connection with the case, and claimed that bail would be denied while they awaited trial.
This would have resulted in the twins perhaps being taken into care by Portuguese social services for at least a year.
Hurriedly, the McCanns arranged to return to Britain - only to find that Leicestershire police were discussing them social workers.
John Coughlan, Joint President of the Association of Directors of Children's Services, explained: "In cases such as this, social workers working for the host authority need to make a sober assessment of the facts in the case.
"At the meeting they would try to establish what they know and what they don't - and would use that to try and determine whether there is any real risk to the children.
"If they decide that there is a risk, they would then consider what they are going to do about it, step by step."
He added: "In most cases, social service workers do not come crashing down the drive and snatch the children. They are much more likely to take a more measured approach."
Technically, if social workers conclude that there is a real risk to the twins, they could move to take the two children away from their 39-year-old parents.
Scroll down for more ...

The family flew back from Portugal on Sunday
In this case, the Leicestershire social workers are unlikely to have a great deal of reliable information about the McCanns' behaviour.
As the Portuguese police force would not hand over information that may be used in a criminal prosecution, the British social workers may therefore decide to carry out an initial interview with the McCanns before taking further action.
Nevertheless, Mr McCann's sister Philomena revealed that the family are preparing for the worst.
She said: "Madeleine's godmother is down at Rothley right now and she is prepared to step into the breach if Gerry and Kate are asked to return to Portugal.
"The family are more than willing to look after the children and they will not become wards of the state here or anywhere else."
Yesterday the McCanns were visited at their large modern home by a police "crime reduction officer" who explained that he gives information about "personal safety".
The visit raised fears that the couple could be targeted by members of the public who believe they are responsible for Madeleine's death.
Scroll down for more ...

The twins' sister, Madeleine, went missing on May 3
Back in Portugal, a police source said phone calls to and from the couple form "a major strand" of the inquiry.
For more than a month, the couple have been under round-the-clock surveillance, with their calls recorded and their e-mails intercepted by the Portuguese police.
Now it is alleged that something said on the phone has added to detectives' conviction that Madeleine died the night she went missing.
The Mail has discovered new details about the conclusions drawn by the British scientists.
Portuguese police believe the crucial forensics supports their case that some terrible harm came to Madeleine in the apartment.
A source in the UK said last night the results of toxicology tests were "significant", indicating that police are focusing on some sort of medication or poison in the apartment.
The McCanns have repeatedly denied accidentally overdosing their daughter on sedatives to help her sleep while they went out to dinner.

750 comments:

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Cláudia said...

Hey, I did it!

Cláudia said...

Now I know what true happiness means. You're a doctor and all but you don't know the feeling of winning the first post on the next page award!

docmac said...

I'm pleased you are happy, amiga :-)

Where's the boss? I'm eating all her pies and I'm getting fat.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

Sian has obviously not read that book called

Eats, Shoots & Leaves by Lynne Truss.

docmac said...

ICTOAN

I don't think she's read the Beano.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I stopped reading that when they took Biffo the Bear off the front page.

Cláudia said...

What do you mean by getting fat, Doc? You mean having a little belly or Phil fat?

docmac said...

I still read it. My middle son got all my old ones and now I have to read them to my 4 year old!

docmac said...

Don't frighten me Claudia. Jeepers.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

My favourite cartoon character of all times was FLOOK.

docmac said...

BTW ICTOAN

I'm sure I read that somebody had found a grammatical error in Eats, Shoots and Leaves. Must have been quite embarrassing for Ms Truss. Do you know what it was?

Cláudia said...

Sorry, Doc. Didn't mean to freak you and make you dream of the truck lady.

docmac said...

Don't know Flook. Wasn't it in the Mail for a helluva long time? I grew up with the papers in SA. I'll have a look tomorrow.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I found this in Wikipedia.

In a 2004 review, Louis Menand of The New Yorker pointed out several punctuation errors in the book, including one in the dedication, and wrote that “an Englishwoman lecturing Americans on semicolons is a little like an American lecturing the French on sauces. Some of Truss’s departures from punctuation norms are just British laxness.

docmac said...

I don't know if I would trust an American on punctuation matters. Bloody good quote though!!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

Flook was in the Daily Mail and was quite satirical.

Humphrey Lyttelton had a hand in it but its main author was Wally Fawlkes
(under the name of Trog) who was the clarinetist in Humph's early band.

docmac said...

I'll certainly have a look later. Thanks for that, mate. It's a 'flook' that the McCanns still have two kids in my opinion.

I have to get some sleep. Goodnight ICTOAN and minha querida amiga de Viseu. Sleep well.

Cláudia said...

Guys, I have to go.
Don't know if I'll be on call tomorrow and I really need to sleep.
Doc, thanks for making me laugh.
Boa noite, all.

Cláudia said...

Doc, muitos beijinhos, amigo.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc and Claudia

Nos Da

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Good Morning to anyone reading

I know its off subject but there is a though provoking article on "blogging" in The Guardian:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/greenslade/2008/06/why_journalists_must_learn_the.html

nancy said...

Good Morning ICTOAN -

I think I'll call you 'icky' for short!

Thanks for the Guardian link - I'll take a look.

Viv hasn't been around for a while; I expect she's having a break and I don't blame her.

Very hot here in Alicante region today - I'm going to shut myself in and put the air-con on for a while.

What part of the world do you hail from by he way?

Nx

nancy said...

I'm off for a dip - I'm melting here.

See you all later folks!


Nx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hi Nancy

Nice to find that I am not the only person around.

I am a "Silly Sussex" born, bred and again resident.

I have never visited your part of the world but when I lived in the Languedoc region of France I often crossed the border into the Spanish part of Catalonia.

The weather here is warm with that humidity that doesn't seem to exist around the Med.

With regard to the Sarah Payne programme, Dylan made a comment at 23.27 last evening.

Anonymous said...

Moring all,

Dylan,

Your post of 23.27pm from last night brought tears to my eyes.

Claudia,

Good wishes to your friend as she awaits the arrival of her little girl. Be prepared if you are with her when she delivers, if you have never been present at a birth before it is a miraculous experience and when you hold a newborn in your arms it is a heaven-sent joy.

nancy said...

Hi Ictoan

Yes, I read all the comments from last night and it was a good one from Dylan, as always!

I know Sussex, well parts of it that is - I used to visit an Uncle and Aunt there on the coast - lovely downs!

I've just had a refreshing swim in the communal pool - cleaned every morning thankfully - and now I'm going to shower, and go to lunch with husband and friends - think I'll stick to salad, and I need to because I've put on a bit of weight in the winter.

I read the Guardian article which was really interesting I thought - so we are being taken notice of even if we aren't liked. I have a feeling that many journalists look in the see what our opinions are and to help with their 'scoops'!

See you later Icotan!

Nancy x

PS. I hope you get a few joining you soon - it's strange being on your own in cyberspace!

nancy said...

Hi Zodiac -

Sorry I forgot to say that!

Hope you have a good day, and we should soon get some news on the birth of baby Sara - I have a niece called Sarah - lovely name - I like classical names myself.

See you later.

Nx

Unknown said...

Morning all

I agree it is wonderful to hold a new born baby and marvel at how small, beautiful and helpless they are.

ICTOAN emailed me a chain email letter being sent by Philomena McCann but I find that it does not copy properly. It includes out of date pictures of Madeleine emphasising her eye defect and claiming the family "want to make the most of this". It also states the family no longer believe that she is in Portugal and as only press in Britain and Portugal are covering the case she wants it to spread around the world via email.

The McCanns were given expert advice from the Police that advertising Madeleine's eye defect would sign her death warrant. But they just completely ignored this, being yet more confirmation to me that they are guilty killers, intent on cashing in, not concerned parents. I am afraid the family did want to make the most of it, as Gerry said " a good marketing ploy". Their conduct will go down in history as being particularly repugnant.

Viv x

docmac said...

Hi Viv

Can you send it to me please?

Unknown said...

Hiya Doc

Yes, I will forward it on to you, it is a PDF file, but for some reason when copying the text it becomes damaged.

Viv x

docmac said...

Thanks, I'll look at it a bit later.

docmac said...

It's spam. Bin it.

Cláudia said...

Hi, Viv, Doc, Zodiac, Nancy and anyone else around.
No baby yet. I just spoke to my friend and she is confortably in her bed with lots of pillows under her legs waiting for Sara to give her some sign. She had contractions during the false alarm but she isn't feeling anyting now so it can still take a while. She's only 37 weeks pregnant. Holding new born babies is a blessing! :-)
Thank you all.

Unknown said...

Hiya Claudia

Your friend is doing all she can to protect the baby and herself in terrific heat by resting with her legs elevated.

I look forward to your exciting news but babies must not be rushed!

Doc, noted and have done.

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Hey, Viv! :-)
My poor friend is fine but her legs, ankles and feet are incredibly swollen. She has orders to rest for 3 days before going back to her routine which includes walking, which is advised to help during labour. She is surprisingly calm, under the circumstances! :-)
Thank you, my friend! :-)

LittleGreyCell said...

Morning,

ST says we should apologise to the McCanns for making their suffering worse, and on reflection, I think I'd feel better if I described what I'm sorry for...

1. I'm sorry, McCanns, if your grief at being lambasted for leaving your very small children alone to their fate causes you pain. It's such a shame, isn't it, that you find yourselves living in a society which is, when it comes down to it, collectively moral.

2. I'm sorry, McCanns, that you prized a night's boozing with your friends over and above the duty of staying with your kids so that you could ensure no harm came to them.

3. I'm sorry that your friends - much as you were really into them - felt the same way about their own offspring, and also left them to look after themselves, ill-equipped though they were to do so.

4. I'm sorry that you are angry about the rest of society being repulsed by your shameful attitude to child care.

5. I'm sorry that you failed to enjoy your kids on holiday, abandoning them to their own lives - day and night - because you didn't want to be bothered with their needs and desires.

6. I'm sorry that you choose to try and muzzle centuries of free speech in this country, just because it highlights the fact that you're appalling parents who regularly ignored the duty of care to their own children.

7. I'm sorry you obviously feel you have no case to answer in respect of Madeleine's bizarre disappearance. After all, you were only her parents, weren't you?

8. I'm sorry you feel that society wanting answers for the disappearance of a little girl demonstrates 'nastiness' and 'amorality'. Sorry, too, for your families, who have had to see what kind of people you've grown up into being.

9. I'm sorry that it's just your luck that the abductor is the only living being on the planet not to leave any DNA trace of themselves anywhere - a scientific first! What terrible luck!

10. I'm sorry that I ever had to hear of you. For if I hadn't, Madeleine would by now have celebrated five years of her life on Earth, and would be looking forward to whatever good things the future held for her.

LGC

"You can't get any nastier and more amoral than LGC".

Cláudia said...

LCG, I'm sorry that medicine, in this case, was able to contradict nature. Nature was right this time. I'm sorry Madeleine wasn't born in a family who thought she was more important than friends and fun. I'm sorry Madeleine was alone when she left. I'm not sorry for her parents at all. May the universe take care of it. What goes around comes around.

docmac said...

Claudia

Glad your friend is OK and the pregnancy remains on course.

LGC

Well said!

BBFN.

Cláudia said...

Doc, thanks.
My friend just wished Sara would come out and say Hi to mum! :-) Too hot!
BBFN!

bath theory said...
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bath theory said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bath theory said...

I have just seen the Entwhistle stuff on television and a big deal was made about his lack of emotion being displayed. Entwhistle being the English guy who has been found by a US court process to have murdered his wife. He seemed to look smug to me as well as being indifferent to emotions.

I then switch on the PC and check the McCann files and Gerry's blogs. His very first one just two weeks after Madeleine goes missing. I emphasize his 1st blog !!! ...

'Our day starts around 6.30am with us all waking up around the same time. We have breakfast with Sean and Amelie and our close family/friends who are here with us. Then its clean nappies and clothes for Sean and Amelie followed by showers etc for the rest of us.

Usually there’s some free time then for a few stories or games with the twins before heading out.

9.00-9.15 We take Sean and Amelie to Kids’ Club. They really enjoy it and run in. They know the staff well and the staff are all excellent. Both love the domestic corner and Amelie particularly likes to look after ‘babies’. We use the kids club a bit like nursery at home but we think Sean and Amelie still think they are on holiday!

9.30~12.15. We return to the apartments, usually for a series of meetings with our press officer, Mark Warner Reps, occasionally Consulate staff, lawyers and British Liaison officers. During this time we catch up with family and close friends, usually by telephone and discuss ideas how to keep Madeleine’s profile high especially throughout continental Europe.

12.30 Time to pick up Sean and Amelie from Kids’ club then head back to apartment for lunch, which has usually been prepared by one of our family/friends group who have been tremendously supportive.

13.30 –14.30 This is time to spend time playing with the twins either in the apartment or in the play area next to kids club.

14.30-15.00 Usually we take the twins back to Kids’ Club although Sean has had the odd afternoon in the apartment as it’s a bit cooler and he’s not much of a sun worshipper! They have been taking part in many different activities including painting, singing, stories, swimming, trips to the beach and they have lots of toys to play with.

15.00~17.00 We try to get some time together alone, going for a walk to talk things over or getting some exercise. This is often the time for quiet trips to the church for prayers.

17.00-17.30 Meet kids for high tea with other mums and dads. They love pasta and have been doing really well with their vegetables although a few chips have been squeezed in.

17.30-18.30. Games with kids at play area. Amelie loves trying to get in the baby pool!

18.30-19.30 Bath and story time with the twins.

20.00 We put the kids to bed.

20.30-23.00 We try to sit down for a family meal, again usually cooked by one of the small family group out here with us. Chat about the day’s events and plan the next day

23.30 bed and prayer for Madeleine that she will be returned to us safely ASAP.

In addition to above we try to attend various church services during the week, and make multiple phone calls to family and friends. We try to watch the main news early morning and late evening but have had almost no time to read the newspapers or even look at the pictures!

Kate is a keen runner and in the last few days has tried to include a run in the daily routine. Yesterday (Sat) at 7am we ran to the monument at the top of the steep cliff overlooking Praia de Luz. We reached it in 19 minutes.'


HAVE YOU NOTICED

1) No mention of Msdeleine until about 350 WORDS have been written. !!!!!!!!

2) His first paragraph tells us about going for showers !! His very first paragraph. No mention of Madeleine and updating the search or mention of reward.

3) His finishing paragraph talks about how long it takes to reach a monument by running !!!!!!

4) How many times was Madeleine mentioned overall. Once !! And this comment seems almost an after thought to be hidden in the text.

REMEMBER this blog was written just two and a half weeks after she went missing. He writes it a style that is cold, detached and emotionless (IMO) and only mentions Madeleine once.

These two need to be investiagted fully by a court process that calmly and diligently follows up every possibility of what may have happened to Madeleine on that holiday.

The fact they blindly want one possibility followed and no other is proof to me that the legal process will more than likely find they know more than they are saying. Quite chilling really.

bath theory said...

Have you also noticed how he likes TIMELINES ? and is very precise in this first blog.

AND YET ... he cannot return 14 mths later after writing this blog to assist in working out 'Timelines' for the night Madeleine went missing.

nancy said...

Bath Theory -

I fail to understand how a father who has just lost his daughter to a paedophile,(or so they are trying to convince everyone), can sit down cooly and write stuff like that - how could he gather himself well enough to do that. It's as if he is totally shutting out the truth of what happened, and they are certainly not the actions of a totally grieving father. How anyone can actully trust this man I fail to understand!

I just finished watching the Entwhistle trial too. How tragic for Rachel's family to lose not only their daughter but their granddaughter too!

Looks can be very deceiving, because when you look at Entwhistle, it's as if butter wouldn't melt in his mouth. I am convinced he has psychopathic tendencies the same that we have discussed many time in this case.

nancy said...

LGC -

Great post - thanks for that - and if ST and her gang can't see the truth in what you've written, then they must be completely taken in by their own blind faith.


Nx

Cláudia said...

The lack of attention devoted to Madeleine on his blogs is just overwhelming.

Unknown said...

Hiya all

LGC - what a good post! I am sure we are all very sorry we ever heard of Kate and Gerry McCann! People are naturally very distressed to have been bombarded with the disappearance of Madeleine and all their excuses as to why it was nothing at all to do with them. Of course they fail to accept their conduct amounted to neglect. To admit this would be to admit they are very abusive parents and that serious neglect such as this is clearly a predictor of that.

BT

Again, a great post. His blog demonstrates someone with a total lack of empathy for Madeleine. It also demonstrates someone who has something akin to an obsession with order and control. Gerry McCann would never go out without his watch and his mobile or do anything spontaneously without carefully plotting it through first. To do so, is second nature to him.

I believe he would be a nightmare to work with. Such people are not interested in the effects of their actions upon other humans. What they are interested in is feeding their need for order and control. He would be very interested in an immaculate filing system, systems and procedures that make everything run perfectly smoothly for him. What he just cannot cope with is the unexpected or what he has not meticulously planned for.

He would also be a nightmare to live with, because he would insist on the set routine each day which he reduces down to a list. He would incapable of seeing their is anything odd or regimented about this. I was interested to note he says the childrens' bed time is 8 pm. I do not think that is quite right. He says in his witness statement the children were "put to sleep" at 7.15. On the basis of all the evidence we have, the McCanns went out at 8 pm that night. I think he is so sinister that he can give a precise time as to when the children actually go to sleep and I am afraid all the evidence we have heard about the children being drugged is confirmation of that. He controls, even to that extent but I do not accept the overdose of Madeleine was any accident.

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Viv, darling, you have mail! :-)

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

I, for one, won't be sending off Philomena's e-mail to anyone that's for sure. She is clutching at straws if you ask me and I doubt there will be the response she is hoping for.

Is it really necessary anyway - there can be no-one on earth who doesn't know what Madeleine looks like and this e-mail will simply encourage the public to turn away with apathy because the whole media circus, quite frankly,is boring everyone rigid.

What she should do is try to convince her brother and sister-in-law to co-operate fully with the PJ's and LP's instead of antagonising them.

What would their daughter Madeleine, and indeed, what will the twins think when they grow up, about parents who didn't bother to look for her and then didn't co-operate fully to try and locate her.

It will all come back to haunt them one day and their family are doing them no favours by continually excusing what happened to Madeleine.

Nx

Unknown said...

Hiya Claudia

Have responded!

Nancy

From everything I have seen and heard, I would say that email is about a year old and really old news now. But what really worries me is the way Gerry's siblings got behind him when they most surely know what he did. In the early stages she made a number of public comments clearly seeking to pin the blame on Kate and John gave up his job to administer the fund. What a terrible family! If my brother or sister did that I know for a fact what I would be saying and doing!


Viv x

Cláudia said...

Viv, me too! :-)
xxxx

Anonymous said...

bath theory,

I have read that M was supposed to like Harry Potter and could read the books by herself. If true I wonder what she would think if her abductor (I do not believe the abductor fairytale) let her read her fathers blog. The boring blog by a father of a missing child where the missing child is an after thought. The same blog where the missing childs name is spelt wrong by the father who writes it. What memories would this little girl have. She was left with her 2 year old siblings with no supervision on a nightly basis, she cried with her brother for her parents to come, they did not. She was abducted by a man who looked like an egg and can morph into a hairy tooth monster. If this abductor let her watch TV, read newspapers, see all the smiling pics of mummy and daddy, especially the Punch and Judy one with her siblings. Read how they fear for themselves, how they have to clear their names before they find their missing child. The missing child they have never physically looked for yet use the visit to Strasbourg where they consider themselves to be Ambassadors for missing children to insult the public/police who did physically look for her and gave up their own personal time to do so. To hear them on TV in Strasbourg saying to the PT reporter that it is avoiding the issue and boring to mention the crime of neglect. What damage alone have the parents of this little girl caused her if she is still alive.

LGC - Well said.

As for saying sorry to the McCs. When have the parents of this neglected child shown any sorrow for their neglect of their 3 little children aged 3 and under. The children they chose to leave night after night over 100mt (approx) away in their holdiay flat alone to fend for themselves whilst they indulged in their own selfish pleasure and as a result one is now missing. I have no sorrow for these parents. I feel sorry for their 3 children especially M as she is the only one suffering because of the actions of the irresponsible parents she was unlucky to have. I feel sorry for every parent that is truly suffering because their child/ren are victims of abduction. I feel sorry for these parents seeing these self elected Ambassadors of missing children getting so much access to the Media. IMO their association with the Amber Alert is not an altruistic motive, purely selfish.

Anonymous said...

Bye all,

Read you all later off out for dinner.

Unknown said...

Great post Zodiac!

Have a nice dinner, I wanted to go play in my garden but it is all windy and cold now!

I have been digging out some wild areas and re-planting but it can wait!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Viv, I would love a bit of wind and a fresh breeze now! :-)

Unknown said...

Well Hun,

If you jump on an Easyjet to East Midlands I will come and pick you up, then you can stand in my garden and have your tee shirt blown off:-)))))

I know what you mean though, I have been abroad and thought if only that unrelenting sun would just go in for a bit, or it would start raining!

I can remember being in Turkey years ago with my sister and Luke, moaning we never go anywhere. So she said right we will walk to the next cove. The stifling heat nearly creased me so next time her and Luke wanted to walk to it, I swam, quite a long swim but I could not walk in that heat!

The weather here is annoying me, we have been getting strong sun and wind at the same time and I have to keep taking my hanging baskets down because it dries them out so quick and batters them. But now it is just strong wind and rather cold!

Viv x

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Viv

I tend to agree with you that the chain e-mail is quite old. What concerns me is that people are unthinkingly passing it on.

I make a point when forwarding e-mails of deleting the details of people who have sent the mail and those to whom it has been sent. Not everyone does this and the item in question contained details since 20th June. There are 35 recipients including somebody with a police connection.

What I can never know is how many of the 35 sent it on and how many they sent it to.

Unknown said...

It is even starting to rain now! I could do with jumping on an Easyjet but have electricians coming next week and then plasterers which is taking a lot of dosh!

Viv x

hope4truth said...

Hi All

LGC good post...

BT The first blog was not natural Madeleine's name when mentioned was as part of the cause not as a much loved and missed daughter.

Is he really so stupid to think he can Lie about neglecting his children over and over again when that is one thing in this tragic case that is clear to see???

If he can lie so easily and forgive himself this discusting action then what else is he lying about?

Unknown said...

Hiya ICTOAN

I would not worry too much about the email personally because I think we are not the only people who can see the McCanns for precisely what they are. I have no met anyone who actually believes they are innocent lately, have you?

The more they appear in the news and spin the more people turn against them. I think the Amber Alert idea was an unmitigated disaster!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Viv, I just left because I had a little shopping to do but it is way too hot to go out during the day. Around 9 o'clock it gets better and then it's a good time to go for a coffee with some friends. You can imagine how my very pregnant friend is feeling with all this heat!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Funny you should say that Viv.

My son who I see infrequently and when we talk it usually concerns family matters said to me about a month ago just as I was leaving his home that knowing of my interest in the subject he wanted me to be aware that he thought the McCanns innocent.

As soon as arrived home I e-mailed him the link to a summary page from the McCann Files which he has now read. He has admitted that perhaps he as someone only getting information from the press is misinformed.

Incidently the person who sent me the chain mail has also received the link to the McCann Files.

Unknown said...

Hiya ICTOAN

I see the point you are making that to those who only see the McCanns on TV etc or read the British press it would be easy to get the perception they are innocent. I am sure that has been the purpose of what they do, and initially, the fact they obtained damages from Express Newspapers did send out that signal. I recall my mum telling me that some of her elderly friends had commented "well they must be innocent, a court says so". But of course the Court did not say so, they did what a court always does, rubber stamp a settlement agreement. These agreements are frequently made on the basis the person being sued does not actually admit legal liability.

In fact it is seeking to counter their propaganda that was one of the main reasons for my blog. I wanted to be sure the government had the clear message from the British public "we do not accept they are innocent and we do not want this swept under the carpet". There was certainly a perception that this may be the case and I wrote to a number of government departments making sure the message was getting across.

However, as time has gone on, and events have unfolded, I think it becomes increasingly clear that our government have not impeded justice in this case, or certainly they are not doing so now! Also I think it has become clear that people are entirely fed up with the McCanns. I see this particularly since the extensive exposure on TV for the Anniversary event and in all their actions since that time. It seems to me that normal people just have to say, something is just not right here. They left those three tiny children night after night and now they are trying to act like Childrens' Ambassadors, also they are constantly pleading their innocence in the media which again people just do not see as normal behaviour. They protest too much and laughed in PDL. People clearly see they attack the police and only now start to look worried and upset. It does not take a lot to figure out why that is.

Viv x

Unknown said...

Claudia Hun

You are making me hunger for being abroad!

Lazing around swimming all day and then about 9 when it has cooled down going for a lovely meal and some wine:-))) When my children were older of course and could drink wine with me!


Viv x

Unknown said...

PS

I do not envy your poor friend being pregnant though and the fluid retention and swelling that would cause which is bad enough in the UK!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Darling, my poor friend looks like a huge tennis ball. Her feet and ankles are so swollen. But I admire her. She still walks and walks and walks everyday. Not for the next two days, though, because the doctors told her to rest for 3 days.
I know I shouldn't because my country produces great wines, but I can't stand it. I'm not a big fan of alcohol, I must confess. Two or three beers a summer is more than enough. And only when it's really hot. Like today! :-)
I could use a swim now. I oove to swim.

Unknown said...

Hiya darling

Maybe she could walk in the evening when it cools down and rest during the day when it is hot. I am sure she will just do what the doctors say now and take it easy but it is good to keep mobile.

I decided to go for a nice walk when 8 and a half months with my second son and pushed the first one up a hill in his pushchair during the afternoon. I had Nev at 8 that night! Maybe it was just nature!

I just had a look at Troll's blog, they are going on about what they claim Doc said on the Daily Express, what sad empty lives constantly reliving their emnity for people they do not even know, but like to think they do. I have to laugh at some of the assumptions they make about me, but hey I guess it fills their empty days!


Viv x

Cláudia said...

Hi, Viv. And haven't been to the sewer for quite a while. I'll leave it for a grey, sad day so i can have a laugh. But do you mean they're talking about DE times? Jesus, they're late! :-)
She's been following doctors' advice very strictly and she walks in the evening or in the morning when it's not too hot. I'm not going to tell her about your second child's birth or she will get up and push something up a mountain right now! :-)

Cláudia said...

Oh my God.
--------------------------------------

Has anyone else noticed that ...
by WhyMadeleine Today at 7:24 pm

On Madeleine's official website the number of days missing has been Removed
It may be wishfull thinking .. but does anyone else feel that Madeleine may have been found ?
as like some of you I have read that when Madeleine is found we the public wont hear about it for a while ...
and we all know that this was more than an abduction, and very political.

This is a post from Spooky (not to confuse anyone) from Mathew James site
http://formadeleine.freeforums.org/psychic-theories-86-t906-120.html

hi everyone ,im feeling the last parts of the jigsaw are being put in place for maddys return i know in my heart im feeling this last message is correct ,but still dont feel she be home until end of the year ,i feel some kind of blackmail is being negoiated ,to bring her home ,i feel we know very little to whats really going on behind the scenes ,but we all must stay positibve that day of her coming home is becoming more nearer than before ,i believe she was taken for some world cause and will be returned when everything thats been set out has been done i felt for sometime that maddy wouldnt come home until the deal has been done ,which i still feel is amber alert ,its been bugging me for ages ,but also feel other things are also part of the jigsaw which means my bigger picture to be broken ,
i dont know i have this sense that they have her ,or very close to getting her back ,i feel very positive in june ref maddy ,so could june-sept amber alert ,or the time maddy will spend with parents then october the world knows ,i feel its all over ,but we wont know for a long time ,anyone else feel this ,empathy or sb if youre around ,or any other spychics or mediums ,

docmac said...

..Or because we're close to confirming she was never 'missing'?

Cláudia said...

There's worse.
---------------------------------------

Re: BIG BROTHER!!!!!!
by vee8 Today at 8:31 pm

OK, just to throw a spanner into the female hormonal thing (!) has anyone else noticed that if you turn the new Big Brother symbol upside down, it looks like a certain little girl's eye? Just a thought.

Cláudia said...

Doc, any reason for the Brazillian flag? Let me guess, it's because Madeleine was sighted in a flight in S. Paulo?

docmac said...

Yes, I felt sorry for Brazil so I am showing my support.

Cláudia said...

Yep, poor guys. Who told them to speak Portuguese? :-)

docmac said...

Claudia that spanner in the...Oh my word!

Just a thought though. I was working around the back of my PC today, reconnecting all the leads and so on after doing a little rebuild and adding a few new boards and things. When I'd finished I looked at it and wondered if some of the pro's backs don't look quite similar.

Cláudia said...

Doc, imagine what's the more popular thread on the pink sewer? The Big Brother one. 92 replies and 796 views. More than any of the threads about Madeleine. Nice. The second most popular is abou some bubbles character (????) and it is placed under the Other Blogs thread. They have interesting priorities. Just like the celebrities...

Cláudia said...

Doc, lololol!

Cláudia said...

I meant the most popular. Got my superlative and my comparative mixed. I'm turning into Sian! lololol

docmac said...

Yes and I still haven't figured out who Bubbles is either.

Cláudia said...

I don't know who Bubbles is either but she must be important judging by the attention she got.

docmac said...

See, now I re-tuned my TV card at half time and then forgot to change the channel again after losing track of the time. Ah well :-))

Cláudia said...

So now you feel happier because Spain is winning and because it is playing better. Go Spain!

docmac said...

Yes, just watching now.

Cláudia said...

2-0 it is! :-)

Cláudia said...

Ok, 3.

docmac said...

Well done Spain! Glad you enjoyed it Claudia. I've got to go. BBFN.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

Last night I mentioned a piece of music for your friend's anticipated happy event.

There is another tune I like which I played after the birth of each of my grand children. A good version is on youtube with some great photo. When you have a moment or five perhaps cou might have a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh5rvsLI09g&feature=related


Doc

I think you might also like it.

Cláudia said...

Doc, I did.
BBFN.

ICTOAN, it's beautiful. Thank you.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

For me, somehow, it sums up in music what all of us on this blog feel.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, I agree. It is wonderful. Thank you again.

Ecolab said...

Hellow Viv et all

I`m sending you a postcard from Italy. I`m leaving early Friday morning. Just my youngest son and I - loaded with cash and sunprotection. I`ll find an Internetcafe.

"See" you all in 2 weeks and take good care.

Greetings from Denmark



*Justice for Maddie*

Cláudia said...

Ecolab, you're going to love Italy. Great food, great people, wonderful culture and a beautiful, beautiful language. Don't save on the sun protection!
See you when you come back. Have fun!

Cláudia said...

Boa noite, all.

Cláudia said...

"Sniffer dogs trained to spot terrorists at railway stations may have to be stopped from coming into contact with Muslim passengers, The Daily Express claims"
-----------------------------------

Guess who will be inspired! :-)

Boa noite!

Unknown said...

Hiya

Eco have a fab time in Italy and we look forward to our postcard. Glad you have got lots of dosh, my sister says you will need it, even for a coffee!

Claudia

I know the Daily Express can be very racist but that is staggering even by their standards!

As you say, there are some who will actually revel in such remarks.

Waves to Rosie and Mum21

Boa Noite all

Viv x

Roll on 7 July, it may be good news!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

BBC News website


Mother jailed for abandoning son

A woman who left her two-year-old son alone for the weekend has been jailed for 18 months.

The boy was found crying, dressed in dirty underwear and standing in water at the flat in Lincoln.

Kelly Tollerton, 22, was found guilty of two counts of child cruelty and one of perverting the course of justice at Lincoln Crown Court in June.

The child was found by police after neighbours noticed water leaking from the flat into their apartment below.

During the trial, Tollerton told the court: "I would never ignore him. I would talk to him. He was a happy, smiling, contented boy."

The child is being looked after by foster carers.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7477178.stm

Published: 2008/06/27 10:09:03 GMT

© BBC MMVIII

nancy said...

Hi ICTOAN:

A disgraceful sentence for that excuse for a mother in my opinion -leaving a tiny boy on his own for the weekend, and then perverting the course of justice:

What sort of justice is that for the little boy who could easily have died and who knows could be be affected by his treatment for the rest of his life poor little mite.

This girl should be sterilised and never be allowed to have her son back - she has proved to the world she is a dangerously unfit mother.

When are the government going to put children's welfare above all others - disgusting sentence!

Nx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hi Nancy

Its the problem with our so called justice system,

Pensioners are jailed for not paying council tax. Huge fines are levied for puting rubbish bins out on the wrong day.

Violence and neglect seems to result in a slap on the wrist and obtain early release to offend again.

Or at least that is how it seems.

nancy said...

ICTOAN -

Yes, I'm afraid Britain could win the trophy over the rest of the world for some of the most inadequate laws and services - and it's the motorist who comes in for more stick than anyone else. It's almost as if they want everyone to get rid of their cars and use the failing transport system.

for instance, it took my granddaughter five and a half hours to get from London to Suffolk last Sunday because of the work on the tracks; so she had to get on and off buses half way there - and that work has been going on ad infinitum for as long as I can remember!

Nx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Nancy

As a further point on Law and Order did you see this recent story.

I know it made the Nationals and Local TV.

http://www.crawleyobserver.co.uk/news/Exsoldier-taken-to-court-over.4210067.jp

LittleGreyCell said...

Further to the story of the young mother jailed...

Here's what the judge said to her:

"Your conduct arouses feelings of horror and revulsion among all right-thinking people, particularly parents, most of whom must make considerable sacrifices in their lives for their children.

"The evidence shows that you were more concerned with your own social life than catering for his needs or caring for him. You were too selfish and too lazy to look after him properly."

Now, who else might these words apply to?...

ICantThinkOfAName said...

LGC

To be fair, she didn't have high profile supporters.

LittleGreyCell said...

ICTOAN,

Yes, silly of me. And somewhat silly of her in the circumstances...one should always strike up a relationship with billionaires before going out on the razz, I find...

:)

Unknown said...

Hi everyone
I have found a very distressing video on youtube about Russian street children

Wizard said...

Hi Nancy,

I’ve just been reading your post re car users taking all the stick. They are of course an easy target – the high tax on fuel, road tax, high insurance cost, camera’s everywhere waiting for a motoring misdemeanour to occur so a heavy fine can be made, parking fines and high costs for parking cars. Motorists are easy targets which the government, councils et al will milk to the full. None of these things will stop people driving cars but it will bring in useful revenue for the government and all the others on this particular gravy train.

Talking of easy targets have you notice that young unmarried mothers are targeted imo unduly for politicians to score political points on – this again is an example of individuals who are not able to defend themselves being targeted. I also think, likewise, people with a low financial standing, that have parenting skills that leave a lot to be desired, have the book thrown at them when their lack of skill is highlighted, they again are easy targets as the do not have the financial clout to employ top lawyers to get them off or prevent the charges being levied in the first place. Which brings us back to the McCanns - I think I’ll get off my soap box at this point as words sometimes fail me with these two.

Unknown said...

Hi all

I think it is not just young children that our legal system fails to protect. Here is yet another example of a dangerous sexual predator allowed bail. Admittedly he was not charged at that stage, but this happens so often. Our jails are full to breaking point with petty criminals who do not need to be there. Judges and Magistrates are reminded about prison overcrowding and so take decisions to allow really dangerous people like this to injure and kill again. Note the poor father's remarks, he wishes he had been there and the terrible impact on the little boy.

In relation to the mother who left her son in the flat, I think the sentence may have been reduced somewhat due to her low intellect, the McCanns do not have that excuse. Justice has been served, she will never get her little boy back and if she gets pregnant again the SSD will take care proceedings to remove the child from her at birth.

Bailed man raped and killed woman

Stacey Westbury was with her baby son when she was attacked
A man has pleaded guilty to the rape and murder of a woman, five days after he was released on police bail over separate rape allegations.

The body of Stacey Westbury, 23, was found at her home in Fulham, west London, on 17 August 2007.

Christopher Braithwaite, 22, of Shepherd's Bush, west London, was arrested the following day.

The judge said a series of rape charges in relation to other victims should be allowed to lie on file.

Miss Westbury was alone in her flat with her 10-month- old son in the pram when Braithwaite carried out his attack.

She was discovered by her father, Kenneth Westbury, later the same day.

He said the day he found her body would "haunt me for the rest of my life".

He said he had felt "the most awful pain" but also "white hot rage" because of what had happened to her.

"I feel so guilty I was not there to protect my little girl," he added.


Braithwaite attacked his victim while she was alone in her flat

Her mother Lorraine said their grandson had nightmares and became hysterical if strangers came to the house.

Prosecutor Victor Temple QC said the crime was "a particularly grave sexually-motivated murder".

"This defendant, addicted to crack cocaine, carried out a violent sexual assault on a defenceless young woman which in turn involved an element of sexual abuse accompanied by strangulation," Mr Temple added.

A post-mortem examination also found she had been stabbed.

He said that after the killing Braithwaite did nothing to alert anyone to the presence of a baby on its own in the flat, and that he returned after the murder to steal a telephone, some jewellery and a pedal bike.

Mr Temple said after Braithwaite was arrested over claims of rape and false imprisonment on 9 August he was questioned and released on police bail.

Disadvantaged family

"There were, of course, possible potential allegations to be charged against him," he said. "He wasn't charged at the time."

Braithwaite was subsequently charged over the alleged rape, but the charges, and others relating to another woman, were all allowed to lie on file.

The charges include rape, false imprisonment and actual bodily harm, involving "manual strangulation".

Oliver Blunt QC, defending, said Braithwaite was suffering from a personality disorder, worsened by his use of drugs and that came from a "somewhat disadvantaged family".

Braithwaite had a previous conviction for wounding after he stabbed a man in 2005.

Braithwaite pleaded guilty to murder and sexual penetration without consent and will be sentenced later.

docmac said...

OK, in the absence of any news on Madeleine, here goes:


Anonymous Anonymous (love the name) said...

"Claws, let me enlighten you, in the absence of any news on Madeleine, a forum provides other areas for people to discuss things they enjoy or find of interest."

Then stop whining when others do same.

"Its no good for you because there isn't a thread on how to enjoy being a first class bitch."
You may just have shot yourself in the foot there.

"Unlike that skanky blog you post on, in the absence of any news the pro forum doesn't make up and peddle lies, now I know that may be an alien concept for you, but it is how normal people behave."
See previous comment.

"Which reminds me, being an outsider, what do you think of the human race ?"
See previous comment again."

"Oh and btw, there is also a Madeleine section that is for members only!!!"
Now this one is really, really interesting. What on earth would you have to hide when discussing Madeleine? Hmmmmmm???

27 June 2008 12:32

Unknown said...

Hiya Doc

I think they hide the fact they know the McCanns are abusive parents but they support them because they are no better.

Viv x

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Viv

Daily Mail Story on a related subject to you last posting.


Criminal freed from jail early because of overcrowding is accused of rape

By Matthew Hickley
Last updated at 9:11 AM on 27th June 2008



Six sex offences have allegedly been carried out by four prisoners released early under the ECL scheme

A criminal allegedly committed rape shortly after being released early from jail as part of a government scheme to tackle overcrowding, it emerged today.

More than 25,000 convicted offenders have been freed up to 18 days early since the controversial system was introduced a year ago in a desperate bid to ease the prison overcrowding crisis - and have gone on to commit hundreds of extra crimes while they would otherwise have been behind bars.

The Ministry of Justice gave no further details of the alleged rape, but confirmed a total four prisoners freed early stand accused of carrying out six sex offences.

A spokeswoman said: 'Any offending carried out by an offender during the End Of Custody Licence (ECL) period is regrettable.

'However, just one per cent of those released on ECL so far have been notified to us as allegedly committing offences during the ECL period.

'Prisoners with a current conviction for serious violent offences and registered sex offenders are specifically excluded from ECL.

'All prisoners released on ECL would have been released anyway in a maximum of 18 days' time.'

Last December, it was revealed that one prisoner released early under the ECL scheme had gone on to murder his girlfriend.

It has also emerged that criminals released early from prison under the scheme are being paid £2.6million a year by the taxpayer in subsistence and housing benefits to cover the days they are not housed and fed in jail.

As well as being freed to walk the streets early, criminals are being paid an average of £130 each when they leave prison - the standard release grant of £47 given to all released inmates topped up with £80 or more in additional subsistence and housing payments to cover the days when they would have been fed and housed at public expense in prison.

In the first nine months of the early release scheme, introduced last June, the Ministry of Justice handed out more than £1.9million in subsistence payments to 23,716 criminals benefiting from early release - on top of £1.1million in release payments.

If the grants continued at the same rate, the payments will top £4.1million by the time of the scheme's first anniversary on Sunday, including £2.6million in extra benefits for early release.

Opposition critics accused ministers of 'adding insult to injury' for British taxpayers.

The figures emerged as probation officials revealed that rules banning violent criminals from the early release scheme were being breached, as offenders with a history of domestic violence were regularly slipping through the net.

The probation union Napo said not enough checks were being carried out on inmates being freed early.

Harry Fletcher, assistant general secretary of the union, said: 'The scheme was introduced quickly and is clearly flawed.

'Men convicted of offences of domestic violence are being let out without any accommodation check and returning to their partners' addresses.'

Napo has drawn up a dossier of nearly 30 problem cases highlighted by its members in just the past four days, he added.

In 19 cases the original offence involved domestic violence, and the prisoner was also deemed high risk, while in eight cases a further offence of domestic violence was alleged to have occurred within the 18-day licence period.

He said: 'There is now clear evidence that further assaults are occurring and the men are either being charged with further offences or returned to prison. This is clearly unacceptable.'

He added: 'Further violent offences against women are contrary to the Government's victim strategy and are totally unacceptable.'

Shadow Justice Secretary Nick Herbert said: 'The human cost of this discredited scheme is clear in hundreds of unnecessary victims of crime.

'Now we learn the financial cost to the taxpayer is more than £2 million. The Government is adding insult to injury by not only releasing prisoners early but actually paying them for the privilege.'

'Releasing prisoners early is wrong in principle, but doing so without individual risk assessments so violent criminals return to the homes of their victims is a licence to cause harm.'

The early release scheme was introduced in a last-ditch bid to ease the prison overcrowding crisis, but it bought ministers only a brief breathing space and jails were soon close to bursting point again.

Justice Secretary Jack Straw defended the extra benefits payments on the grounds that early release prisoners cannot receive normal benefits until their ordinary release date.

Earlier this year it emerged that prison inmates had used a loophole to apply successfully for almost £730,000 of student loans, despite having to give their postal address as a prison - where they are housed and fed at public expense.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Viv

Sorry I meant your 14.48 posting.

nancy said...

Hi Wizard - nice to see you!

I couldn't agree more with your first paragraph regarding the penalising of motorists (and I'm not talking here about drivers who drink before going on the road), but about all the other things drivers have to put up with in order to fill the government coffers; I especially abhor the way your car can be clamped and taken away by unscrupulous companies who are simply in it for the money they make and creep out from behind a wall somehow if you just park up for a few seconds, even in an emergency. The other people who come in for my stick are hospitals who charge visitors to sick people to park and by the hour rather than by the day. I could go on and on!

Regarding your second paragraph and single Mums - It's the government who have created the single Mum situation by cushioning their irresponsible behaviour by letting them know they can claim good benefits, and also a council house or flat, ahead, in many cases, of families who don't seem to warrant the same charitable status. I personally think this just encourages girls to think they can get pregnant and get free housing and benefits, with children ending up in one parent families. It sends out the wrong message I'm afraid. Of course, there are always deserving cases where girls have got into trouble through other circumstances; rape for instance. Then they deserve everyone's sympathy. With so many birth control gadgets on the market, no girl needs to get pregnant these days, and then there is the morning after pill available too.

Going off case now a bit so I'll finish to say that I entirely agree that the McCanns have had unprecedented help and these are people who certainly have no need of it with their lucrative careers and their behaviour smacks of self congratulations at how well they have fooled many of sycophants around them.

Nx

nancy said...

Reported on McCann Files:

Gerry McCann has been elected to the Board of BSCMR!

Another gem:

The Tapas 7 to sue the Express Newspaper Group in relation to a number of articles!

---------------------------------

I wondered how long they would take to jump on the McCann's bandwagon!
---------------------------------

I must say I find that GM being elected to the Board of BSCMR doesn't bode well - would they elect him if they thought he was heading for a great fall!

How could they elect a proven child neglecter! It beggars belif!

nancy said...

Ictoan -

Thanks for the link to the Crawley Observer - I'll look at that!

Unknown said...

Hiya

I think this government have created a bureacratic nightmare which is just not protecting victims. The serious danger that victims of domestic violence face has traditionally always been downplayed, including by police, as not a real assault or risk of murder, just a domestic. This attitude flies in the face of the figures that confirm two women die every single week. I know from my own experience that probation officers do not have adequate training on domestic violence. They no longer even attend University as a cost cutting exercise. I met new young probation officers who simply did not understand the dangers or know how to assess the risks. In addition to this the government now has the trained probation officers spending about 70% of their time filling in risk assessments and forms on a computer. I certainly do not miss the job for this reason. It is just like with so many other professions. The poor beleagured practitioner has to spend so much time filling in the governments forms to prove they are doing their job they do not actually have time to do it. I met supervisors who were saying "well just spend 5 minutes with the offender, so that you can do your risk assessments and reviews". Filling forms in on a computer may prove you are aware of the risk but does nothing at all to actually change it. Then there is the additional problem. The government have snowed police, probation, teachers etc with so much paperwork to do they have introduced an army of unqualified assistants to do the actual job! Whilst I was still an officer I noted that the job of doing an assessment to consider whether an offender was safe to be allowed out early from prison on a tag, have been taken from me and given to "Probation Service Officers" - unqualified assistants. In those circumstances, is it any wonder that they do not realise they should not be allowing domestic violence offenders out early back to the home address to just do it again? Managerialism and preventing professionals from being able to do their job is something where I really do part company with the labour government! Do we want an army of unqualified police walking the streets? Community Support Officers who have to call a proper policeman if anything cracks off, away from his mountain of paperwork!

Viv x

nancy said...

I don't think that any serial sex offender should ever be let out of jail to reoffend, because sex offenders simply don't ever stop! They are like some people who are hooked on drugs who will never give up until they die.

I don't think I've ever heard of any of these people actually being cured of their obsessions. The people who make the decisions to free rapists and paedophiles are never at risk themselves unfortunately.

If they must be released then ship them to some Island where they can practise their disgusting habits on each other!! And make sure there are no boats around!!

nancy said...

Viv -

Your last post says it all and proves that the Government have made a complete b...s up of the way the Probation Service now works. Imagine them using staff who are not fully au fait with all the procedures and are not up to the job! No wonder we are hearing almost every day of someone being let out on the streets and committing another heinous crime. No wonder you are glad to be out of it all.

As for paperwork - just how did the police get on years ago when they were mostly out on the beat - no Panda cars to speed around in, but they still managed to run a credible Police force and catch criminals.

I suppose we are such an overcrowded Island now with so many more crimes you can't compare like with like. However, I think it's time all this paperwork was thinned down and a less time consuming method of administration was brought in.

What's wrong with cameras and listening devices being used when apprehending a criminal so there is no need for all the form filling?

Nx

nancy said...

Hi Mariana -

I watched a few minutes of the video on the street children and that was enough.

I read that the population of Russia is declining rapidly, not only because of life expectancy, but also due to the fact that Mothers need the money so many have to work rather than have children. Therefore there are not the number of safe houses as we have in the UK, like foster parents etc. You would think a country like Russia with all the multi millionaires in their midst would set up orphanages for these desperately poor kids. Begging seems to be their only hope of not starving - really heartbreaking!

And this is the year 2008!

Unknown said...

Nancy

Your last para, simply brill! Listening and audio devices to record everything to prevent police officers having to fill in a mountain of barmy forms, in triplicate. We have the technology but instead of using it, we are just chaining professional people to a computer, or often in the case of the police, hours of actually filling forms in by hand. You can meet managerialists who actually see a point to all of this (probably because they typically get paid more than the practitioners) but it is lost on me and demoralises conscientious people who just want to do a proper job, arrest criminals and take them to court, give children a good education, rehabilitate offenders and properly protect the public from those offenders who are so personality disordered they cannot be rehabilitated!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Viv

Surely if form filling was done away with nobody would be able to compile statistics or se if targets were being met.

nancy said...

Ictoan -

I read the article in the Crawley Observer about Frank McCourt who made a citizens arrest when a gang of thugs were terrorising his area!

Are these arrests legal still because we often hear of people having the guts to take this step, only to end up getting arrested themselves.

As one blogger wrote:

'the tax payer funds the police - who spend this chasing criminals - who steal of the tax payer, making the tax payer the victim twice over. I'ts a vicious circle'
-----------------------------------

nancy said...

Ictoan -

Well, I don't think that form filling per se could be done away with altogether, but I certainly think they could think of something as a back up which is less time consuming. The Police and the Probation Service have their hands tied it seems!

Computers are supposed to make life easier, not harder after all.

Nx

nancy said...

Viv -

I suppose the problem with cameras, audio and listening devices are concerned, we'd get the PC brigade up in arms about citizens rights!

Yes, there are always going to be people up the ladder in any department who want to hang on to their high rung whatever the cost to the lower rung holders below them!

What they call 'jobs for the boys'!

Nx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Nancy

I believe that 'Citizens Arrest' is still legal but I am sure that Viv can give a definitive answer.

On your the question of form filling etc. I cynical enough to think that the Government consider that the prime function of the Police, Fire Service, NHS and other such agencies is to compile statistics.

During my days as a Firefighter I saw the number of people at the sharp end decrease as the clerical staff multiplied.

docmac said...

Ictoan

I've just seen your link to the video on Youtube. I don't listen to jazz that much, but it is wonderful. Do you know who the artist was? I'm going to forward that one to some family, friends and colleagues. One of the stills in particular brought back memories of my own youth. Thank you.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hi Doc

I am answering in this way so that you can obtain information if you venture into Youtube in the future.

When you first log onto the page there is a panel to the right of the video screen which includes the heading 'Added'. If you click on (more info) this will probably give you what you want.

Sometime more info comes in the listners comments but these are not always reliable even if the posting sounds sensible.

I hope I am not teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, if I apoligise.

docmac said...

ICTOAN

Photographers Steven Dorey and Barry Anthony display their work describing the many facets of childhood. Barry is playing the Flugelhorn on this Thad Jones Classic "A Child is Born".

Thanks very much indeed. I don't use Youtube much at all and was unaware this info was in that spot. Now I am :-)

nancy said...

Further to my post of 15.08 - I read today that Entwistle, the double killer, has been told by the Judge in this case, that he will not be allowed to profit by selling his story to the media or writing a book about his crime!

It's a pity they don't bring this law in here, especially people who are obviously child neglecters, such as the McCanns and their tapas pals! The McCanns have profited big time, and now it looks like the Tapas 7 are going the same way! Shameful and in my mind it should be illegal!

There is not a shadow of a doubt that they are all child neglecters - they obviously have no standards, principles, or pride!

nancy said...

Ictoan -

Interesting to read you were a Fire Fighter! I had no idea. I take my hat off to anyone brave enough to do that job!

As always, it boils down to money at the end of the day!

The country should get it's priorities right without a shadow of a doubt!


Nx

nancy said...

Docmac -

Nice to see the Spanish flag!!

They definitely won fair and square last night!

I almost choked over my peanuts after their third goal!!

Not to offend any german bloggers, I hope Spain win the final this year!

When it's England and Spain, I always stick up for England of course, abysmal as they are at times!

Off now - see you all later!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I think the law in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (not sure about Scotland) has been changed following some previous high profile examples. It only would apply after conviction.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Has anyone tried to log onto Alsabella's site lately?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Just seen this

Couple jailed over toddler's death
Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:22pm BST


By Andrew Hough


LONDON (Reuters) - A couple who allowed their three year-old daughter to die in a house "not fit" to live in were jailed on Friday, in a case that shocked local authorities.


Tiffany Wright died of malnutrition in a bedroom littered with dirty nappies and clothes which also had dog excrement smeared over the walls, Sheffield Crown Court heard.


The little girl's decomposing body was found upstairs in the Scarbrough Arms pub in Upperthorpe, Sheffield, on September 30 last year, the court heard.


She was found two days after she had died in the pub that was owned by her parents, prosecutors said, after becoming so weak she contracted pneumonia.


Police said they were shocked that no one reported the incident, as they revealed an investigation had been launched into the circumstances surrounding her tragic death.


Officers have said how members of the public would see Tiffany staring out of her bedroom window.


As Tiffany lived in squalor, people were partying downstairs and even having karaoke competitions, the court was told.


A post-mortem had revealed the young girl had not been fed or had a drink for more than 20 hours.


On Friday her mother Sabrina Hirst, 22, was jailed for 12 years after she had admitted manslaughter at an earlier hearing.


Her husband, Robert Hirst, 44, was also jailed for five years after pleading guilty to child cruelty.


"It is a very, very sad case and you only have to think about (her) last few days... (where she) sat alone, unloved, uncared for in the bedroom when the most natural thing in the world for her to want and need is a mother's love," acting detective chief inspector Dave Powell told reporters outside court. "She didn't get that love and that is tragic."


He said the house was "not fit" to live in.


"People downstairs were having parties and karaoke downstairs enjoying themselves while the poor little girl was living in agony," he said.


"I don't think any sentence in these circumstances will be long enough. As a parent myself I would have liked to have seen a much more lengthy and appropriate prison sentence."


The couple had also admitted child cruelty in relation to a one-year-old boy who cannot be named for legal reasons.


(Editing by Matt Falloon)



© Thomson Reuters 2008 All rights reserved.

atardi said...

Hi everyone,

Niki,

How are you? I hope the business is doing well. I still miss your posts in the early morning, especially on friday when you know I have to work so .......

Hope everything is ok with you.

BT,

Thanks for the link.

Cláudia,

I remember the hot summer here in 1994 waiting for a child to be born. Sara can wait 2 1/2 weeks or 4 1/2 weeks. Is the last one ( 4 1/2 weeks) correct Docmac?

Marga,

One day to go!

docmac said...

Ictoan, no. Is there news of Alsa?

Atardi, full term is anywhere from 37 to 42 weeks. So yes, 4 1/2 weeks from now is the outer limit. After that complications become rapidly more common so the drs get a bit jumpy. I've got a feeling it's going to happen quite a while before then :-)
One day to what?

nancy said...

Ictoan -

I tried to log on to Alsabella's site a few times but have just recently deleted it because it is still unavailable. If she comes back she will let us know I'm sure.




Nx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

DocMac & Nancy

I tried logging on to her site today as I have done periodically since it ceased and for the first time found a new page:

This blog is open to invited readers only
http://theworldaccordingtoalsabella.blogspot.com/

It doesn't look like you have been invited to read this blog. If you think this is a mistake, you might want to contact the blog author and request an invitation.

You're signed in as ********* - Sign in with a different account

atardi said...

Nancy,

You are the one who answers all my mails. I do really appreciate that. Thank God your husband can understand "Vlaams". Like I said I don't know when it will be broadcasted and the saddest thing is that I don't know if I can receive it here.

Nancy, I've been thinking about the tapas 9/10. If you had to make a list about the ones who are the most involved after the parents of Madeleine.

I tried this and thought of the next list.

1/2 The Parents
3. Jane Tanner
4. ..........?
5. Rachel Oldfield?
6. ..........?
7. ..........?
8. ..........?
9. Diane Webster
10. Unknown

Will read your answer tomorrow.

mandarinn said...

HI all
ICTONAN i tryed to log in and it happen the same :(
How can we contact allsabela?

docmac said...

Jeez ICTOAN,

That is one extremely upsetting story. I'm not sure what to say. A 3yr old with a 22yr old mum whose husband is 44 (judging by the wording of the article not the father of the child) and living above a pub with another 1yr old child? Was he the landlord and she a barlady he fell for? That's what it sounds like to me. And nobody contacted SS? Oh my goodness.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Mandarin

Claudia is the only person whom I think has personal contact with Alsabella.

I have the impression that a number of regular posters have been disappearing from this blog. Could they have been invited by Alsabella?

atardi said...

Docmac,

Nice to see you online.

Can you help me with the post I made to Nancy. Sometimes I think that not all the tapas were involved in
Madeleine's tragedy.

marga said...

Hi everyone!

Atardi,
I'm glad there is only one day for you to go:-)

docmac said...

Atardi

1. KM
2. GM
3. RO'B
4. JT
5. -
6. -
7. -
8. -
9. -

docmac said...

One day to what??? :-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

DocMac

I wonder if I am adding 2+2 and making 5.

mandarinn said...

ICTOAN
I guess so.. they are in alsa blog.
I hope Claudia appear to ask her

marga said...

Doc,

LOL

And women are believed to be the ones whose curiosity is just one of their uncountable negative features:-))

docmac said...

ICTOAN

I have no idea what happened to Alsa or whether she has invited people to her blog or not. I've always been keen to know what transpired but nobody seems to know.

atardi said...

Doc,

Do you think that the others didn't know and still don't know about yhe 3th of may?

docmac said...

ICTOAN again

2+2=5 concerning the tragedy or Alsa?

docmac said...

Marga

ONE DAY TO WHAT???? :-)))

marga said...

Hi Mandarinn!

Just want to say hello to posters here. Haven't had much time to post in the last three weeks but I'm up-to-date to everything and decided to post wiyhout avatars at all. Don't forget I have been already cloned and I assure you it is sth that really annoys you.

If Alsabella is again on, it is good news.

docmac said...

Atardi

I believe some of the others deduced what had already occurred (after the fact). The first four I believe were directly involved, in that order.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc Mac

Alsa and the McCanns. (One day we will know?).

docmac said...

I hope so ICTOAN. I'd like to believe that the usual rules of mathematics applied and that there was no foul play.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Doc

Time will tell if we are using the same calculator.

atardi said...

Docmac,

I've been telling here that we had a "beauty day" for the eldery people.

It was such a big succes so it will became a project next schoolyear. That's why I will have to work next monday.

docmac said...

That's true. And I am a very patient man.

atardi said...

Marga,

Nice to "see" you again.

Cláudia said...

Hi, guys!
How are you all.
It was such a hot day here I spent most of my time swimming! :-)
My friend's water broke but she hasn't got any pain or contractions yet. She's getting a bit impatient.
I'm not aware of any news regarding Alsabella. And to invite people she would have to have e-mail addresses which I don't think she has.

mandarinn said...

Marga
I'm glad to see you here.
I think i was here when you was cloned... Hope everything is ok now, and no more clones.

mandarinn said...

Claudia
Check Alsabella's site.
I guess baby Sara is coming at time to jump the fire"saltar a fogueira" next night .

docmac said...

Sorry Atardi,

I was booted offline for a while, having some strange connection problem here.

Sorry vir die ekstra dag. But I'm sure the happy faces made up for it. Why was I not invited? Does not matter, I recently won a facial at a raffle!

docmac said...

Well Claudia

I just told Atardi I think it will be much sooner than she suggestd. Seems I was correct! Not a bad guess for an old mopman hey :-))))

marga said...

Atardi,:-)

Have to go again as I have been asked to do something I have never done before and it is really time consuming. In two weeks people will for sure have more to comment on re this case. I really believe the rope is almost breaking and the truth of the liars will not last forever.

Beijinhos.

Cláudia said...

Mandarinn, I already did. The fact that it has been privatised doesn't mean it's running and used. I know that Alsabella only had 2 or 3 e-mail addresses from posters. Inclding mine. So I don't see how she would do it. Maybe it's a makeover.

Doc, do you also have visions when you're not working with your mop? ;-) The doctors told my friend that they may have to induce labour if the contractions don't start. She is currently pain free. Well, she was half an hour ago!

Cláudia said...

Bye, Marga.

mandarinn said...

Bye Marga
bjs

docmac said...

Oh Marga, thanks to the two 'a's in your name that post is going to be copied and pasted on another site before you even start your task.

Boa noite.

marga said...

Cláudia,

your friend will perhaps need to go under a cesarien.

Bj

docmac said...

Visions, yes, lolol! And there I was thinking it was called experience :-))

marga said...

Doc,

are you referring to the mArgA/mArlA/AlsA/ALA?

or should I say
mOrgO,mOrlO,OlsO/OLO? (masculin) ?

Thanks DOc/ DAc/ MAc

:-) BTW I'm also supporting good footie, not a mechanic programmed team...despite all my ties to Germany.

atardi said...

Doc,

It started as charity and after we noticed that the communication between the youth and the eldery people was so necessary we decided to program this for the next schoolyear too.

Will send you some pictures next week.

docmac said...

mArgA

AAAAAAAAAh, don't get All pArAnoid now. LALALALALAL!!!

docmac said...

AtArdi,

Yes I would like to see them, thanks.

Cláudia said...

Marga, you finally see what I meant about german football! They are starting to reming me of Italian football and man are they annoying! :-)

Yep a C-section is a possibility, but they'll try to induce first and try a natural birth.

Doc, experience? What does mop experience have to do with delivering babies? ;-)

atardi said...

Marga,

So glad you are posting again.

marga said...

Those comments made by the ones who don't know we use learned/learnt says it all. Other languages have genders unlike the English!! But we know that only the educated ones are aware of that.Don't we?

They are going to be amazed by having the opportunity to read the famous book before all the Portuguese interested ones and perhaps learn a lot from it(including linguistic varieties which are unknown to them).
LOL

Really off.

docmac said...

I do NOT deliver babies! :-)) But I can catch from what you have been saying for the last couple of days that things are rapidly coming to a 'head'. Mops have heads, that's how I know these things.

Cláudia said...

I know you don't, Doc. But so many years of hanging around and cleaning those great doctors' messes must give you some 'intresting' experience.

docmac said...

Intresting is not the rite word ,Claudai.

marga said...

Well,
people here are influencing me to continue chatting and my work is already screaming at me...

Atardi,

my daughter is beginning volunteer work with old people next tuesday.
She decided to spend July doing sth for people who she respects and admires. I'm very proud of my 14-year-old girl who could be spending her holidays on the beach that is really near our home.
So, your project is sth wonderful that should continue. I'm really sure you and all the ones involved are going to put a smile of happiness on those people you are caring for.
This says a lot about your inside and humanity...

Doc,
LOL

marga said...

Cláudia,

going to email you.

jinhos

Cláudia said...

Doc, I seam to sea that I maded a speling meestake but I cant sea what it is. Intresting... :-)

Marga, ok. Jinhos.

docmac said...

Marga

I think Claudia is reading the column written in her honour over at Gerry and the Pinkmakers.

I see they mention Leanor Capriani again. Wasn't she a tennis player?

atardi said...

Oh Marga,

We told our oldest one to contact the house of the eldery (pure translating) to do some volunteer work here. But she prefers to play football.

docmac said...

donT fret claudai ist ,not aperitive too spel rite ear . its just blogsan dif u spend to much time onnit theirs know time for lagers or bb innit ,?

Cláudia said...

Doc, i don't now nothing about any colon. i was been away all dey and stuff. lolol
Man, this is not easy, you know? :-)

atardi said...

Doc and Cláudia,

Can't compete with you.

Read you tomorrow.

docmac said...

Yes, Claudai. Not easy to read you mean. Gives me a headache.

I was just reading what AtArdi and mArgA were saying about volunteer work. My daughter used to do a hell of a lot of work for St John and she helped her mother at Alexandra Hospital (chronic care of physically and mentally challenged kids mainly) a lot. Since she left school and went on her gap year she has stopped doing this, though she still does some stuff with a church group most weekends. Those posts have given me a reminder that I need to have a little chat with her. Thank you.

docmac said...

Lekker slaap Atardi.

Cláudia said...

Doc, that's nice!

Atardi, sleep tight.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

It's an epidemic!!!

Mother jailed after baby she left unsupervised died of drugs overdose

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 4:37 PM on 27th June 2008

A mother whose baby died of a heroin and methadone overdose after she left him unsupervised to go on a drug binge was today jailed for five years.

Sabrina Ross, a former prostitute, would regularly pass out at her home in Bristol, leaving 14-month old son Rio well within reach of Class A drugs and their substitutes, a court heard.

On the evening the child died she left the house three times to score drugs and in the morning discovered the baby dead and clutching his Winnie the Pooh toy.

Ross had taken 16 rocks of crack and two wraps of heroin with a male friend that evening, before falling asleep unaware that the child had a "free run" of the house.

Jailing Ross, who admitted manslaughter at Bristol Crown Court, Judge Roderick Evans said she had created an environment that was "entirely unsafe for a child".

ICantThinkOfAName said...

AND

Child rapist jailed over 'worst' porn stash ever found by police

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 6:52 PM on 27th June 2008


An internet paedophile from west London found with the "worst" child porn collection ever recovered by police has been jailed indefinitely.

Convicted child rapist Arthur Morley's sickening collection of pictures and videos included very young children being raped and abused by adults.

The material was so extreme it shocked even the toughest officers in the Met's Paedophile Unit, London's Southwark Crown Court heard.

Morley, who had previous convictions for rape, attempted rape and indecent assault - all against children - and was a registered sex offender, used a false name, a false address and an internet cafe to avoid detection. Despite his precautions he was eventually identified by police and arrested.

Morley, 64, of Greenford, pleaded guilty to 50 counts of distributing, making and possessing hundreds of indecent images of children between January 11 and March 6 this year.

The defendant bowed his head as Judge Peter Testar told him it was clear he posed a "high risk to the public" and that meant the only way to deal with him was to impose an "indeterminate" sentence to protect them.

Judge Testar said: "The court is concerned with indecent images of the most extreme nature, and I mean extreme nature with capitals underlined. The material which has been described in detail by the Crown depicts the most serious abuse of the youngest of children, even babies."

After explaining Morley would have to serve a minimum of two years and two months before he could be considered for parole, the judge added he will never be allowed to work with children for the rest of his life. He will also remain on the sex offenders' register for life.

Outside court, case officer Jason Tunn said: "These include some of the most distressing images of child abuse we have come across in the Paedophile Unit. The emotional and physical damage these victims have had to endure at such a young age is immeasurable."

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, what a tragedy! :-(

Look at what someone sent me in an e-mail:
------------------------------------

Daily Mirror 'Pride of Britain' award.
by vee8 Today at 6:39 pm

I'm not sure how you good people feel about this, as it is certainly a contraversial idea, but I have a page on my website for nominating Kate and Gerry for a 'special category' Pride of Britain award for all the hard work they have put into raising the awareness of other missing and abducted kids, and for campaigning for the Amber alert system for the whole of Europe. I do know that when the 3arswipes site found out they had purple kittens over the idea!

If you think they are worthy, then go to www.madeleine-adestinybegun.co.uk and click on the Pride of Britan page on the right. You can find instructions there on how to nominate them.
-------------------------------------

I'm not sure where it was posted because it didn't come with a link but I take it it was from the most recent pink sewer because of the poster.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I'd much rather nominate the PJ for the Pride of Portugal Award.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, I'm also thinking of nomitating that mother who was convicted to 18 months in jail for neglecting her child while she went on the piss for the Mother of the Century Award.

docmac said...

There's a lot of this stuff happening all over but the acceleration of crime, and not only against kids, astounds me.

Claudia, Nigel is an idiot. Always was and always will be.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

There are other very deserving candidates.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, do other names come to your mind? ;-)

Doc, You got mail!

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