1 Jul 2008

PORTUGUESE ATTORNEY GENERAL - NO DECISION AS YET

Hi All

Have not had much time of late but amid the speculation this case is about to be shelved felt I should publish this report in BBC news and would point out there is an entirely similar one on Sky. The Attorney General is the most senior Government Law Officer in the UK and I would imagine this is the same in Portugal. Following these reports he had decided to speak out to quash them. Sky has the reputation of being extremely Pro-McCann and if there were any truth in the suggestions the case is to be shelved, one could guarantee they would be running it. In addition the McCanns are just about to take on Leicester Police. They would have no need of such action if they were about to have their status as suspects dropped and both they and Murat confirm they have heard no such thing. As you all know, my own view is that it is very likely the McCanns will ultimately be prosecuted in the UK, but I would like to stress again, their friends could not be prosecuted for child neglect, we do not have the jurisdiction to prosecute less serious cases that happened abroad. We most certainly do have jurisdiction in relation to homicide and other connected and very serious offences including the conduct of O'Brien and Tanner. Goncalo Amaral has been on TV tonight and confirmed Madeleine died in the apartment on 3 May. I would appeal to people to use their common sense and accept what the officer who actually investigated the case says. Clearly he would say no such thing if this were not true, knowing the McCanns have constantly searched for someone to sue, even the PJ! and extracted a settlement in their action against Express Newspapers.

I firmly believe this case is not over yet, but ultimately the McCanns will face charges, we just cannot be clear when that will be. If they have arranged for false sightings of Madeleine this is very serious evidence against them in relation to homicide and certainly not something the police would shelve or ignore!

Viv x
'No decision' on Madeleine case

Madeleine was on holiday in the Algarve when she disappeared
No decision has been taken on the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, Portugal's attorney general has said.
Fernando Pinto Monteiro said the case continued to be assessed, after Portuguese media reports that police will close it due to lack of evidence.
Parents Kate and Gerry McCann are both official suspects in the inquiry, along with a third man, Robert Murat.
Madeleine, of Rothley, Leics, went missing in Praia da Luz on 3 May 2007.
She was three-years-old at the time.
'Shelved' reports
Mr Monteiro's comments came after newspaper reports that the case would be "shelved", meaning police would no longer devote resources to investigating it.
He said the final report from the Policia Judiciaria had been received by prosecutors, and it "will be the object of careful analysis and consideration".

McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell gives his reaction
"Public prosecutors will proceed to the overall analysis to determine whether or not other action is necessary or whether the conditions are sufficient to rule that the investigation be closed and a final ruling made," he said.
The statement noted that the case remained covered by judicial secrecy until mid-August.
The Correio da Manha newspaper said on Tuesday that sources within Portugal's judicial police said they "do not have sufficient evidence to allow formal charges to be brought against the McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter".
The Jornal de Noticias said the police did not have enough evidence to charge either the McCanns or Mr Murat with any wrongdoing.
"The police have not found the guilty," the paper added.
One newspaper said the case had already been closed, another that the end of the investigation would be announced within the next few days.
Family 'suffered enough'
The McCanns were declared official suspects in the case - "arguidos" in Portuguese legal jargon - last September.
Earlier, their spokesman Clarence Mitchell told the BBC the family was awaiting confirmation of the latest media reports and if true, the Portuguese authorities "must lift their arguido status as a priority".
"If they are true, it's to be welcomed that Kate and Gerry are not to face any charges," he said.
What we don't want is that information to lie on a shelf somewhere gathering dust
Clarence MitchellKate and Gerry McCann's spokesman
Madeleine case begins to fade
Madeleine case timeline
"It's quite right. They are innocent of any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance. They have suffered enough."
Mr Mitchell said the family wanted to know whether police planned to stop searching for Madeleine and if so, their information should be made public so the McCanns could continue their private investigation.
"What happens to all those leads, all those contacts? There are thousands of pieces of information in those files," he said.
"What we don't want is that information to lie on a shelf somewhere gathering dust.
"Surely it's only humane and decent that information that could help find Madeleine comes to the investigators, who will keep looking for her, even if the police feel they can't."
Mr and Mrs McCann are due to go to the High Court on 7 July to ask a judge to order police files on the disappearance of their daughter to be released.
Murat's status
Briton Mr Murat lives with his mother in Praia da Luz close to the apartment where Madeleine was last seen. He strongly denies any involvement in her disappearance.
His lawyer Francisco Pagarete said he had heard nothing from the Portuguese authorities about the case being closed.
Asked whether he would welcome such a development, Mr Pagarete said: "Yes, we will, but it depends on the way it's going to be dropped.
"If it's going to be dropped because there's not enough evidence connecting my client to this case or if it's going to be dropped because Robert hasn't got any involvement in this case.
"Only the second way will make us happy."

401 comments:

1 – 200 of 401   Newer›   Newest»
lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Thanks for your article re the possible shelving of the case, as usual you hit the nail on the head,Goncala Amaral woudl not have stated that Madeleine died in the appartment if there was not significant evidence pointing to that, I believe that you are right that the Mccanns possibly will face charges at a later date and even if there are none, this does not mean they are innocent, merely that there is insufficent strong evidence to prove their guilt. I do hope though that the truth does come out and believe it will even if it is via the book the Truth of the lie which is soon to be published by Goncala Amaral, who is a brave, courageous man in my opinion and am only sorry he was taken off this case. He will always be respected though for his hard work in this case and his courage in not being afraid to speak the truth.Hope you don't mind me posting Viv as have been away and not had much time to post lately but always try to read your blog even if I haven't contributed much.....Lizzy

nancy said...

Viv -

Thanks for your positive article today which will help us all calm down a bit and see things as they are instead of going round the houses not knowing just what's going on with one saying one thing, and others something else. It was of course the media, as usual, who put the cat among the pigeons in the first place.

We should have known that CM would be there stirring the flames against the PJ's as usual. And Kate and Gerry 'demanding' their arguidos status be dropped indeed. Just what right have they to make demands to the Portuguese Judiciary when they have done everything in their power not to co-operate with them!

As you say, they are going to Court on the 7th July, and we will see what happens then - we can only hope that the Judge sees sense and rules in favour of the Leicestershire Police.

Robert Murat, once again, has acted in a completely different way to the McCanns and said how he just wanted Madeleine found, and would prefer the investigation to go on if that could be achieved, whilst the McCann camp spoke only for themselves as usual.

I hope you had a nice break with the family and are enjoying some sunny weather in the garden.

Nx

nancy said...

Lizzy -

I agree with what you and Viv say -Goncalo Amaral wouldn't have made a statement like that, being the professional policeman he is (or was)without a firm conviction that he was right. I believe the truth of the lie will come out eventually, as he has said, even though I'm sure that some stormy times lie ahead for those of us who want Justice for Madeleine!

If they aren't charged with abandonment at least then there will be no Justice, and that goes for the tapas parents too who have kept silent behind their calm facade for far too long!

Nice to see you posting by the way - we've missed you!

Nx

nancy said...

The slimeball Sun's headline today:

As the cops give up on Maddie hunt we say -

NOW CLEAR MCCANNS!

Typical comment coming from them but then the McCanns have a natural talent for getting support from those who should be condemning them.

I hope Jon Gaunt comes back with a stinging retort to the disgusting headline in the rag he writes for!

hope4truth said...

GA would be risking everything he owned by saying that she died in apartment 5A if there was no evidence to support his claim.

I cant understand why anyone would make a claim unless they were 100% sure they could prove it?

GMTV have just reported that they are about to be cleared who cares they neglected their 2 daughter and tiny son they are unfit parents who at the end of the day are responsible for Madeleines suffering if indeed she was taken and have not shown any remorse for their selfish actions.

I am discusted that a 3 year old is allowed to vanish after obvious neglect and her parnents are held as heros by some for making money out of a tragic situation.

If they are inocent of involvment of her disapearence then of course the case should be dropped but if there is evidence that a body was in the apartment then this case should never close and it should be made very clear this is why the PJ are not looking for Madeleine but looking for her body.

My children are worth a billion times more than I am and god forbid anything ever happends to them but I would be outraged if anyone who may be involved refused to answer questions it is not natural to refuse when one answer could reunite you with your child.

hope4truth said...

And Finaly

Have just heard the words Kate and Gerry McCann have been given new hope that they will be cleared of involvment...

If I were in their postion the only New Hope I would look forward to is she may be found.

They will never be cleared of involvement as they were the selfish people who decided to dump the kids in bed while they walked out of their unlocked apartment and left all 3 children to their fate. Madeleine is the victim and a 3 year old's voice has been silenced by her parents talking about themselves.

Any Pro who thinks I am a bitch tough luck read Gerry's first ever blog on the subject it sum's up just how important Madeleine was in the grand scheme of things compared to them. Also the comment he made in an interview about fearing for yourself said before fearing for his poor daughter who he thinks may be in the hands of a peadophile ring.

God help the children of GB if these two child neglecters are ever put forward as the champion of children.

marga said...

Morning!

From what I have heard here in PT if the case is going to be shelved it will be under Homicide.And it can be reopened at any time.

A case of the disappearance of a child cannot be shelved until the person is found dead or alive.

But I would like the other Portuguese posters to confirm this.

marga said...

According to today's CM:

PJ don't believe in Maddie's abduction.

Files shelved as homicide.


http://www.correiodamanha.pt/Noticia.aspx?channelid=00000009-0000-0000-0000-000000000009&contentid=13A999CB-342D-436F-8646-18FBE1D19CF3

dylan said...

Good morning to you all.

Hope - go girl!!! I can't add anything to what you say as you've mirrored my thoughts again but put in a far more gutsy way than I ever could. I wouldn't worry about what the pros think, whoever put any weight behind their comments anyway??

Not sure what is going on at the moment but I'm sticking with what Viv says for now until we know more. I remember that infamous time when the Daily trash Express published the headline: "McCanns are innocent" on the front page, and then, the very next day, published entirely the opposite! As Viv says, the whole case is being appraised by the PT AG and so there is no definitive outcome until [he] gives the go ahead based on the evidence. There's also the possibility that this is deliberate to lull certain people into a false sense of security.
If I were the McCanns, I wouldn't want this outcome anyway. Ie., cloud of suspicion for the rest of their lives, case filed as 'homicide' and no daughter returned alive.

In any case, I could never understand why the pros find it 'preferable' that Madeleine is in the hands of paedophiles. That's just abhorrent. Also, if I were the McCanns and innocent, I would have pushed to find out the truth of the cadaver scent. Still, they will have the information soon enough & that will be when their reaction to the evidence will be very telling indeed.

BFN xx

nancy said...

Morning Hope -

As always, wise and heartfelt words from you, especially the only Hope you would have is the hope your daughter would be found -as usual they show their selfishness by thinking only of how things affect themselves.

These so called intelligent doctors should be ashamed of the terrible example they have set to other Mums in the UK and the rest of the world!

They will all be remembered for the neglect and their failure to act as protective parents to their children.

Niki said...

Good morning everyone!
Viv, your new tread today is very "downtoearth" and informative as always! Thank you!
Hope! Your words are so well written and I agree with you all the way...

Have you read this:

02/07/08
Public Ministry Considers More Investigations



Maddie Case. PJ handed over yesterday the final report of the investigation, in which the whole investigation done since May of 2007 is specified in detail. The document does not present sufficient evidence to prosecute, but it is up to the Public Ministry to decide. Future can pass by further new investigations.

Friends of the McCanns might return to Portugal
The filing of the process Madeleine McCann, missing on the 3rd of May of 2007, is not a certainty. Most likely the Public Ministry will order the PJ to follow new investigative steps.

Yesterday, the Judiciary Police sent a final report where all the investigative steps and inquires done along this last month and a half are specified in detail, this report is now in the hands of the Public Ministry and is going to be object of "appreciation and careful consideration", as a source of the Public Prosecution Office (PGR) guaranteed yesterday in a notice sent to the editorial staffs [media].

The new possible steps may go through the reconstitution of the night of the disappearance, which implicates that the friends of the couple McCann and the McCann themselves are notified, again, to travel to Portugal. The report was marked by the incongruences between the statements of the friends of the couple on the night of the disappearance and the Public Ministry wants to find out the truth regarding those doubts.

In the same notice sent to the editorial staffs, the PGR equally guaranteed that the end of the secrecy of Justice of this case is going to take place on the 14th of August.

And this is the basic reason for this final report - called like that by the PGR but without this denomination by the PJ - to have been prepared and to be evaluated by the Public Ministry. The time is running out. There is little more than a month so that the process is within reach of any citizen. It is necessary to present results, some result. And what [result,] then?

The report, which totals in 19 volumes and thousands of documents "it does not indicate or equates the filing or accusation of the process", explained a source of the PJ contacted by the DN, which yesterday read the same report.

The reason is very simple. Because it is up to the Public Ministry to decide for the accusation or for the filing of the process. The PJ 'just does' the investigation in the field and presents the collected data.

But a source connected with the process of investigation guaranteed to the DN that in that same document “there are no sufficient evidences for an accusation". Nevertheless, warns the source, this declaration is "a mere intuition, it is not guaranteed that an accusation won't follow".

The most probable path is, then, according to sources close to the process, contacted by the DN, to charge Kate and Gerry McCann of negligence. An opinion also shared by Paulo Cristovão, former PJ Inspector, who admits the possibility of negligence. “They had dinner leaving their children alone and for a futile reason, and that we know that happened ".

The fact is that, a year and two months after the British girl disappeared from Praia da Luz, in Portimão, there isn’t one absolute certainty. If the hypothesis is kidnap, death and who is responsible for what happened on that night.

Yesterday, Kate and Gerry McCann demanded the access to the process of investigation, if the case is filed. In that case, "the priority must be the lifting of the couple's arguidos status”.

Kate and Gerry McCann were constituted as arguidos in September, four months after the disappearance of their daughter.

nancy said...

Hi Dylan and Marga -

I agree - cloud of suspicion indeed!

I fail to see how the PJ's can lift their arguidos status and at the same time shelve the case as 'homicide'!

Anyway, we will have to see what July 7th brings.

The lambs of the media have at last broken their silence. It's time they came out and said what they really think instead of toeing the establishment line!

I notice the DX is the only tabloid who hasn't given the McCanns a mention today!

nancy said...

Niki - nice to see you!


The PJ's need more evidence to prosecute for homicide, because obviously without Madeleine's body being found that's impossible.

However, they have ample evidence of neglect by the Tapas 8 who admitted leaving their children on numerous occasions while going out on the town. Surely, they can't be allowed to get away with that!!

Niki said...

Hi Nancy, good to "see" you too! How is Spain these days? Greece is TOO hot... Difficult to work...

--

I belive justice will be done for Madeleine sooner or later.

Clarence words yesterday is a laugh again...Claiming that the arguido-status have to be lifted so they can continiue with the search by themselfs. Probably the McCann- team needs a "refill" for the fund before the holidays!!!
--
"The McCanns, who are understood to be currently enjoying their first holiday since Madeleine vanished, will want to turn that information over to their own team of private investigators"
--
Have a nice day everyone:)
Niki

Niki said...

Before I leave: Found this interesting on Mccannfiles:


The Portuguese 'investigation to trial' process

These are the steps a case will go through, under Portuguese law, before reaching the final 'Trial Phase'.

Many thanks to 'SS' for compiling this list

1 - Police receive knowledge of an 'occurence'. They decide if it is likely to constitute a crime.

2 - After a maximum of 10 days, if it is likely to be a crime, the police have to report it to the Prosecutor Services (Ministério Público).

3 - The INQUIRY PHASE begins. The Ministério Público (MP) starts the investigation. A prosecutor heads the investigation, with the help of the police. Under certain circumstances, this phase can be under secrecy of justice (This results from the new code. Previously it was, by default, under secrecy of justice).

4 - Some powers can be delegated by the Ministério Público to the police (PJ).

5 - All is overseen by an INSTRUCTION JUDGE who has to approve certain measures like preventive arrest, etc.

6 - Art. 58 determines when and how the arguido status is given at this phase. Why's that? Because Art. 57 defines the arguido as the person against whom charges are layed or against whom instruction is required (ie, the general legal rule is that the arguido is only arguido when charged with the exceptions of art. 58 - which are many). The arguido remains an arguido until the end of the whole process.

7 - When the inquiry phase ends, the Ministério Público will have to decide whether or not to lay charges. Art. 279 regulates in which cases the inquiry can be re-opened if the MP decides not to lay charges.

8 - If the MP decides to lay charges (if enough INDICATIONS have been collected), then:

9 - The INSTRUCTION PHASE begins. This phase is OPTIONAL. The arguido has to request it. If not, it goes directly to trial.

10 - The instruction phase is LED by the instruction judge (as opposed to being 'overseen' as in the inquiry phase).

11 - The instruction phase is made of all instructory acts that the judge decides are necessary and including, ALWAYS, an INSTRUCTORY DEBATE which is an oral and adversarial instructory act, performed with all parties present, presided by the judge.

12 - Both the MP and the arguido can assist to ALL instructory acts. They can also request any explanations or ask the judge to ask any questions they find necessary to discover the truth, including calling witnesses or requiring further diligences. The judge can delegate some of these diligences to the PJ. Remember that even those performed by the PJ can be assisted by the arguido.

13 - The judge can deny requests that are obviously not necessary to discover the truth and/or have as their purpose the delay of the process.

14 - All acts and diligences performed in the inquiry phase NEED NOT be repeated as long as they followed the correct legal form or when such repetition is crucial to the purposes of the instruction phase.

15 - No CHARACTER WITNESSES are allowed at this phase. Art. 128 restricts their use.

16 - There follows an instructory debate, which is basically a rather informal 'get together' where everybody discusses what has been done so far so the judge will have a clearer perception if there is enough for an indictment or not.

17 - In Madeleine's case (no preventive prisioners), the judge will have FOUR MONTHS for the INSTRUCTION PHASE (counting from the date of the request to open that phase).

18 - The judge then makes the INSTRUCTORY DECISION which is to make the indictment or not. If so, it goes to trial. If not, it doesn't.

19 - The instructory decision is unappealable, unless it's null.

20 - It can be null if the Decision amounts to facts that are substantially distinct from the facts that originated the charge. In that case, the judges should have sent the whole thing back and the MP should do it all over. If during the instruction phase, there are only minor differences between charge and facts leading to the indictment, then the whole of this is 'adjusted' at this phase.

21 - The TRIAL PHASE begins. A new judge (actually a panel of 3), with the possibility of a jury - under certain circumstances and rarely used.

Zodiac said...

Hi all,

Viv,

Thanks for the new article. I will remain grounded throughout the predicted spin of the next few days weeks even months until there is an official statement from Portugal. The British Media are a disgrace merely a vehicle for spin to be spun and spun in the hope that the lie will be believed, IMO. If as suggested that the case is to be shelved under Homicide, then there would be no need for the Fund to continue. Although I will continue say 'what about the neglect of 3 little children aged 3and under left in a holiday flat unsupervised whilst the parents made the conscious decision to wine and dine over 100mts (approx) away with friends and as a result of the neglect their eldest child vanished. To ignore the neglect is to ignore the innocent 3 year old child, IMO.

For anyone who thinks it is impossible to convict in PT without a body listen to Oliveira Trinidado explain here:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6980000/newsid_6988000/6988040.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&nol_storyid=6988040&bbcws=1

nancy said...

Niki -

Spain is like Greece - hot, hot, hot! Mustn't grumble though - we moan when it's cold and then when it's hot!

Thanks for the information from the 3A's - always some interesting comments on there! I guess we just have to wait until the 14th August and see what transpires then.

I am disgusted at the meek response by all the media to the news coming out - instead of being up in arms about the chance of the tapas 8 getting off scott free for leaving their children, which conduct led to Madeleine's disappearance to God knows where, they are all jumping on the sychophantic wagon and haven't got a good word to say about the PJ's, as usual! Talk about rampant xenophobia!! Spineless morons!!

Cláudia said...

Good morning, guys.
Yesterday, Gonçalo Amaral stated on National TV for the world to see and hear (RTP broadcasts for the world at large) that in his opinion Madeleine McCann died on the evening of May 3rd 2007 in apartment 5A, just like he had said in the message he sent to the McCann Files (I told you it was him). I suppose he is now going to be sued by the McCanns, right?

dylan said...

Claudia,

Poor GA. Must be really upsetting for him to know that a) because it's so sad and b) because it's so frustrating not to be able to do anything about what he knows.

I hope that his book is of some consolation to him that the World will know what he does. As I understand, he's been through hell and his family too.

How is little Sara? I truly hope she is flourishing :-))))
BTW what an amazing picture of her. She is sooo cute. I am feeling very broody now,cluck cluck!! xx

Cláudia said...

Hi, Dylan.
Sara and Sandra are finally home. No jaundice anymore and she started to gain weight. They are fine and happy. Thank you. And yes, she is abosolutely adorable. Of course I'm a biased Godmother but I've got the photos to prove it! :-)

As for GA, I guess it must be very frustrating to be certain about certain things and not being able to prove it. I guess the book will help. Let's not forget he gave up his career to be able to speak. He's a strong man and nothing will shut him up. I think that the fact he has a daughter more or less the same age as Madeleine made this case even more personal to him.

dylan said...

Claudia, how wonderful that Sara and mum are home and well. It is nice having nurses to take care of you but even better when you have your baby home in your own surroundings!

I didn't realise GA had a daughter of a similar age to Madeleine. It's distressing enough if you have no associations let alone if you do. My son is 17 this year. I can't read reports of solidiers being killed at all as the age lists are always 18,19,18,22yrs etc. They are still but children who had their whole lives ahead of them and I thank God that my son isn't interested in joining the Army as I know I couldn't stop him if he is. Such a waste of life. I HATE war & don't understand it at all. Pointless, full stop!

xx

LittleGreyCell said...

Completely with you, Hope! Hear hear!

Don't give another thought to the Pros - they're the kind of people who champion those who routinely leave their very small children alone so they can go out drinking.

The kind of people who expect the McCanns not to be questioned about the bizarre disappearance of their child, even though there is absolutely no evidence of an intruder, and much statistical evidence that they are themselves most likely to be culpable for Madeleine's disappearance.

(How is it, Pros, that your fantasy abductor left no physical evidence of themselves, as every other member of the human species would? Just the McCanns luck that Madeleine was taken by an alien, eh?)

Here's another piece from today's CM. You'll see that the quote points out that even if the case is shelved, that doesn't mean the police don't know who was involved with Madeleine's disappearance - or worse.

The burden of proof required in a criminal case is (quite rightly) substantial in order to prove guilt beyond resonable doubt. This is quite different from the police knowing what happened, but not having enough of the sort of proof that will meet the stringent criteria of evidence required in a court case.

Francisco Moita Flores, Criminalista

"I am not surprised the expectation of closing of the case Maddie. It is consistent with what we know from research that has met with the chance to take more steps with the British players who participated in psychodrama.

The filing must be well explained. It is in the air the idea that there is a possible crime of abandonment of children.This would happen if parents were Portuguese.

However, the strong possibility of filing does not mean the end of this process. The process will become public and certainly the eyes of journalists and other people that the study will surely find flaws, news, surprises.

The support of truth in the criminal proceedings is not the same as is required in our common life: it is a fact of evidence and proof. This does not mean that this is only the truth.

And who read the process, even if he can not prove the truth of common sense, sure win convictions about what happened."

So put that in your pipe and smoke it, Pros.

Zodiac said...

Claudia,

Is that little Sara's pic on your blog. She is beautiful.

dylan said...

Hello LGC,

How are you and Opus?? I am having a day off academia under the guise of housework - not that I've done any yet!!

Hope is really blossoming, IMO and braver in what she says. I am glad because she says things how they are and has stopped worrying about troll. It seems to have been since the day she had her marathon posting on trolls blog. I am beaming with pride for her & I've never even met her ;-) Hooray for Hope!
xx

Zodiac said...

Does anyone know if there is going to be a McC Secrecy Law introduced in the UK law. All this gassing from the pink blancmange as to how it soooo important that the files are given to their detectives just makes me think they do not want anyone but their own little clique to have access to these files. Mmmmmm...wonder... why?

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Dillie,

Opus and I are very well, ta! We were enjoying yesterday's summer with Hope's herring popsicles, and now are enjoying looking out of the window at the rain...

How's the academic stuff going? Is your submission date in September? (I can't remember ever taking a day off to do the housework, even as a smokescreen!).

I absolutely agree with you about Hope. What a star!! And what brilliant posts she wrote this morning.

Somebody started a thread yesterday on the 3As stating what a 'perfect day' it was on hearing the news that the case might be shelved. They were swiftly dealt with by everyone else who said how shameful this was to Madeleine's memory.

I honestly believe that our society is collectively moral. But it does come as a shock to read those who think a little girl's disappearance and probable death is of less importance than people who neglect their children in order to go out drinking getting off without charges, even if those posters do have vested family interests.

Morality bypass, or what?

Cláudia said...

Dylan, Sara's mum was fed up with the hospital and is now enjoying her daughter at home. Yes, GA has a daughter around the same age as madeleine. You can imagime what that does to a person investigating a missing child.

Zodiac, yes, my avatar is a picture of Sara when she was less than 48 hours old. :-)

dylan said...

LGC,

Glad yourself and Opus are good. Sorry about the rain :-( It is overcast here today and humid so I think our dose rainfall is on its way!

Hand-in is Aug 7th. I've written around just over a third. Next bit is results which is easy peasy - it's the lit review I'm dreading! I have now cleaned up my kitchen, which I suppose is something - lol!

I couldn't believe that tat about 'perfect day',either. I think it smacks of insensetivity. What is so perfect? Maddeleine back? Nope. Just goes to show where some people's morals lie - or should I amorals??!!

Claudia, does Portuguese hospital food have the same awful reputation as ours? If so, not surprised she was glad to get home to decent food ;-)

xx

Cláudia said...

Dylan, I think food hospital is the same all around the world! :-)

dylan said...

Oops, I have just noticed I spelled Madeleine with two 'd's. Apologies.

Claudia,

How are the new parents coping with lack of sleep? I was so tired I used to fall asleep feeding and wake up on the sofa with the baby fast asleep on me, still in the feeding postion! Still, it was a good excuse to get hubby to fetch and carry for me!

xx

Zodiac said...

Claudia,

I always click the no box (dont know why) when I log on to the blog. Just clicked yes, will do so from now on. I saw the pic on your blog today. Also saw the weird posts from Bianca.

Cláudia said...

Dylan, Sara is a good baby at night. She only cries to be fed and then goes back to sleep. The parents haven't complained about the sleep yet.

Zodiac, she is beautiful, isn't she? :-)

Zodiac said...

Got this link:
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news.cfm?newsid=19820607&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=619050&rfi=6


The Bulletin
Philadelphia's Family Newspaper


Chris Freind: Freindly Fire
McCann Case Closed Despite Parents' Guilt
By: Chris Freind, The Bulletin
07/01/2008
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Well, it's official. Gerry and Kate McCann have become the Ramseys of Europe. Just as the Christmastime murder of six year old JonBenet Ramsey went officially unsolved, it appears that resolving the disappearance and probable death of five year old Madeleine McCann will suffer the same fate.

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That is a terrible shame for three reasons.

First and foremost, a little girl is, in all likelihood, dead, and justice will not be served. The daughter of two British doctors, Madeleine disappeared from a Portuguese beachside resort in May 2007 while she slept. While statements have been made, ad nauseum, by Gerry, Kate and their vaunted PR machine that Maddy was kidnapped, there is absolutely no evidence to substantiate this claim. Of course, there wouldn't be any debate whether Maddy was in fact kidnapped if Gerry and Kate had exercised even a fraction of something called parenting. Which leads us to point # 2.

As "Freindly Fire" has stated emphatically in numerous columns, the McCanns are guilty, period. Of this, there is no doubt. They are possibly guilty of harming Madeleine, accidentally or otherwise, as many Portuguese investigators believe. But, at the least, they are definitely guilty of negligence and, the case can be made, of child abandonment.

You see, what the bought-and-paid-for British media simply glosses over is the fact that the McCanns left their three children, with a combined age of seven, alone in their resort room, at night, on numerous occasions that week. Call me crazy, but that's not just selfish, it's unconscionably irresponsible. They chose paella over the kids. Now I've been to the Algarve, and the paella there is even better than that in Spain, but it's not quite good enough that I would abandon my kids. If the McCanns had taken their children with them, brought a nanny from home, or used the resort's babysitting service, one thing is sure: Madeleine would not have disappeared that night.

But taking personal responsibility is not something the McCanns feel they have to do. It's hard to look in the mirror, so Gerry and Kate figured out that it's much easier to just blame everyone and everything else. Just listen to their spokesman, Clarence Mitchell: "If it's true the police are about to shelve this case, on the one hand that will be welcome because it means that Kate and Gerry will be seen to be the innocent couple that they are - they are innocent of any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance and have been since Day One - and this wrongly-imposed arguido (suspect) status must be lifted..."

Innocent of any involvement? Clarence, how do you sleep at night?

They are guilty and should be held accountable. Showing Gerry and Kate's "remorse" on television (and that remorse is debatable), still doesn't absolve them from their crimes. Why aren't they being charged, either in Portugal and/or Britain?

Probably because we don't like to punish celebrities. And the McCanns have created a huge cause celebre. Remember, these globe-trotting celebrities had an audience with the Pope, met with America's First Lady, and are seen as "ambassadors" for kidnapped children everywhere. If that's what it takes to become an international star, I'll be more than happy to remain obscure.

The royal treatment of the McCanns sends the horrendous message that it's OK to be negligent and greedy, even if it means exposing children to harm, as long as you have good barristers, lots of money, and the best marketing firms money can buy---especially if that money comes from well-wishers not familiar with the true facts of the case.

But worst of all, when leaders in our society welcome people like the McCanns with open arms instead of shedding light on their abhorrent behavior, it condones a mentality that breaking laws---whether laws of the state or laws of morality and common sense--- is acceptable, as long as you look good in front of a camera.

And who can forget the British media and its journalistic "integrity"? Not only did it blindly defend the McCanns and blame the Portuguese for everything, but it failed to conduct even a modicum of investigation to ascertain what really happened to Madeleine. Inconsistencies abound, both in media reports and in statements given by the McCanns and the friends they dined with that night. But hard-hitting questions and thorough research were, and still are, in short supply. To top it off, once the McCanns were named as suspects last September, the British media turned on them and all but pronounced their guilt. Now that charges will not be forthcoming, the tune has changed yet again. The McCanns were innocent all along!

Sticking a wet finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing is something that should be left to the politicians, but it has no place in the media.


As stated in the past, Freindly Fire has never accused the McCanns of killing their daughter, and they are entitled to the presumption of innocence in that regard until a court of law can prove differently. But not so with the negligence they have shown. For the sake of Maddy and all the other children potentially at risk because of such criminal behavior, the McCanns should be charged.

Anything less would be a disservice to Madeleine McCann.


Chris Freind can be reached at CF@TheBulletin.us





©The Evening Bulletin 2008

Zodiac said...

The above link was from MrP and JJP3 A's.

Claudia,

Lucky parents!

Cláudia said...

Zodiac, ouch. Another one on the sueing list! Tee hee hee.

hope4truth said...

Hello All

One of the points I was trying ot make this morning is that even if they do shelve the case (especialy if it is shelved under homicide and concealment of a body) the McCann's will be viewed in the same way they are now. If she was abducted there would be some proof of this the fact. They lied about the shutters being forced and then the door was locked oh no wait we left it unlocked???

If inocent I would be demanding a trial (and would have taken a lie detector test live on TV if it would make people get back to looking for my child)..

I really believe the end of the secrecy will be the start of a lot more questions from members of the general public (who are not as obsessed as us Anti's or Pro's for that matter) and when GA publishes his book it will open up a whole new can of worms...

Children first each and every time...

Dyl have you done your housework???

LGC hope you and Opus are enjoying your herring popsicals in the rain...

xxx

Zodiac said...

Hope. Go girl!

hope4truth said...

Zodiac

Thanks for the article I will finish reading it later as I should have gone 5 minutes ago...

Take care xxx

(IF I am late I will blame you LOL xxx)

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

Herring Popiscles have melted away in the rain, in a way similar to the way the McCanns' arguments as to why they have no case to answer.

Only even Herring Popsicles are a sight more tasty than Kate and Gerry...

LittleGreyCell said...

...and in the same way as my brain...sorry for the convoluted syntax above.

Zodiac said...

Claudia ouch indeed. Wonder what the pink blancmange will think of the true journalism in this article. I will not be surprised if he drops big dollops of pink stuff as he reads it, IMO. Wonder if Oprah and Barbara Walters have read it. If they ever take their Roadshow to the states I hope they are questioned by reporters/journalists like Chris Freind and not allowed the McC rule, only questions we veto can be asked. Somehow I really do not believe this is the end and they walk away cleared, there too many people disgusted by them, IMO. The paragraph below taken from Chris Freinds news article is why I am here, why I have always been on Madeleine's side and why I will continue.

'As stated in the past, Freindly Fire has never accused the McCanns of killing their daughter, and they are entitled to the presumption of innocence in that regard until a court of law can prove differently. But not so with the negligence they have shown. For the sake of Maddy and all the other children potentially at risk because of such criminal behavior, the McCanns should be charged.

Anything less would be a disservice to Madeleine McCann'

JUSTICE FOR MADELIENE
JUSTICE FOR ALL NEGLECTED CHILDREN.

To ignore the neglect of all 3 McC children is to ignore M and all neglected children. Child neglect is not acceptable in our society in any shape or form by anyone.

Zodiac said...

LGC,


Melted Herring Popsicles leave behind an aroma that is a million times more welcome than the melted away arguements as to why they have no case to answer.

Spraying the Herring aroma from the can now...ssphs...ssphs...ssphs..ssphs..ahhh...Luverrly..!

Luvverly that reminds of a song. A'd do ennyfing for you ? ennyfing, ennyfing...for you.

Would you take me with you for tea?
Would you leave no stone unturned?
Would you physically search?
Would you go to PT for a reconstruction?........Ennyfing but that.

LittleGreyCell said...

Zodiac,

Wonderful! Perhaps you should pen a musical - instead of Annie Get Your Gun, how about Maddie Get Your Parents? (Not that they'd have been much use after 14 bottles of wine).

:)

Cláudia said...

Zodiac, exactly. Leaving the neglect unpunished and covering it up by turning them into victims (which they aren't, Madeleine and the twins ate the only victims) sends the message that not only leaving toddlers alone is not irresponsible parenting but also that it can turn those parents rich and famous. Or infamous, of course. Depending on the perspective.

Cláudia said...

Truth and facts spin style:

........................................


July 7 High Court session “postponed”
The story published today by the Guardian has another very interesting paragraph. It says that the McCann “were due to launch a high court case in London on Monday to get access to details of the case held by Leicestershire police, their local force. It is believed this case will be postponed while the couple await news from Portuguese prosecutors.” So, that Court action was due do be launched on July 7.

On June 21, The Daily Mail wrote: “The McCanns have now applied to the court to consider ordering Leicestershire Police to disclose their files on scores of reported sightings of their missing daughter - many of which have been passed on to them by police in Portugal (...) The case will be heard in the High Court on July 7 in the Family Division. However, it is not known if it will be heard in open court because Madeleine is a minor, and has protected status as a ward of court.” Clarence Mitchell is quoted, in that edition of the Daily Mail, as saying: “An application has been made on Madeleine's behalf by her parents for disclosure of certain documents.”

On June 23, on The Telegraph, Clarence Mitchell was more precise: ““I can state that on the instigation of Gerry and Kate McCann Madeleine is a ward of the High Court of England and Wales. An application has been made on Madeleine’s behalf by her parents for disclosure of certain documents. The hearing is currently scheduled for July 7 in the High Court in London.”

So, according to the Daily Mail, on June 21, the McCann had already “applied to the court to consider ordering Leicestershire Police to disclose their files on scores of reported sightings of their missing daughter (...)” Clarence Mitchell even confirmed that “an application has been made on Madeleine's behalf by her parents for disclosure of certain documents.”

And according to The Telegraph, on June 23, Clarence Mitchell went further and, after confirming the “application has been made” also said that the hearing was “scheduled for July 7 in the High Court in London.” But, according to the Guardian, on July 2, the McCann “were due to launch a high court case in London”, on July 7, “to get access to details of the case held by Leicestershire police, their local force.” Am I missing some detail, or this is a little bit confused?


http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2008/07/july-7-high-court-session-postponed.html

dylan said...

Zodiac - lol!

Hope, only got as far as the kitchen but the rest of the house is ok really & I've just made dinner, early, for once! Hope you weren't too late.

LGC, maybe Opus would like some of that herring spray? Would certainly bring the laydees flocking to him. I bet they already are though since he's such a dapper pengiun :)

xx

dylan said...

Oh deary me! Here is another classic from the bitchfest site, from an anon:

Dylan said

How are the new parents coping with lack of sleep? I was so tired I used to fall asleep feeding and wake up on the sofa with the baby fast asleep on me, still in the feeding postion.
-----------------------------------
Then I suppose you are very lucky indeed that the baby didn't fall from your arms and crash on to the floor. Perfect parents eh!!!
-----------------------------------

I don't suppose this anon has any children otherwise s/he/it would have been very aware of the term "motherly instinct"!! PMSL!!!!

nancy said...

Hi Zodiac -

Thanks for the interesting article in which Chris Freind of the Bulletin echoes exactly what all of us have been saying, namely that the McCanns at the very least should be charged with abandonment. If they, and their equally neglectful pals get away with that, then there is definitely no justice for Madeleine. If it were my daughter who was abducted (which is what they are saying) through my neglect, then I would want to pay my debt to Madeleine and society quite honestly because I would never lose the massive feeling of guilt otherwise. But these selfish excuses for doctors are only worried about what they may suffer.

Chris Freind talks about the bought and paid for British media and he's absolutely right. There's not one of them with the guts to ask even the simplest question of the McCanns in case of upsetting Clarence Mitchell. The media have been forced to keep quiet in case the McCanns scream 'libel'!! I can't remember a case in my lifetime where the media have been held to ransom in this way. It reeks of blackmail to me.

Do this couple and their excuse for a spokesman really think the British public are so stupid as not to realise just what they are up to!

Zodiac said...

Nancy,

The bought and paid for Britsh Press along with CM are not the offical bodies that will determine the outcome of this case although IMO they have delusions of grandeur in thinking that they do. They can spin and spin, it means nothing. The British Press/Media have shown themselves up in their own Country and Worldwide, Chris Freind's article shows that. I am truly ashamed of our Press/Media, I have always been of the opinion don't believe what you read in a newspaper, preferring to listen to the news, now that falls into the same category as the newspapers as far as I am concerned.

BBFN

Zodiac said...

Dylan,

You should have said that you went to your friends house over 100mts away for a few glasses of wine and a 3 hour kip (so the little blighter did not interrupt your me sleep time), whilst the baby was safely left in his cot with the front door unlocked. They would have given you a standing ovation and then nominated you for a pride of Britiain Award.

Ooops! that is only if when you got back and discovered that someone had taken the baby from the completely safe empty home and you just know that the baby was taken because the blankie was lying the way you left it in the cot on your return to the completely safe empty home..hic! Everyone does it...hic! It was well within the bounds of responsible parenting..hic!

dylan said...

Zodiac - looool!! but you forgot to mention that the very small pantry window appeared to have been forced too ;-)

xx

Cláudia said...

Zodiac, your post was hilarious...hic! :-)

Zodiac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cláudia said...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2235783/McCanns-hire-new-team-of-British-detectives.html

I can't believe that they hired a new team of detectives. Does that mean that M3 are not the best detective agency in the world anymore? I'm glad that at least they had the chance to pay them enough for them to afford new headquarters. If they hadn't all that money would have been in vain.

Zodiac said...

Dylan,

You could have claimed the Knave of Hearts must have abducted the baby.
You had left the pantry window open to cool some jam tarts you had just made (see I am a good parent) and he must have been lured by the aroma. Whilst he was nicking the home baking he must have heard the baby gurgling and in a whoosh cluck he was gone. Also your friend who had left her sick baby for some wine and me time sleep, was going to check on her precious little one remembers seeing a man in a red and white outfit stuffing jam tarts in his mouth carrying a bundle at the top of the street where you live, she did not think it was strange until she heard your baby had been abducted. I am sure R/pops et al would be setting up a blog defending you to the hilt, cos they are kind caring folks you know.

Cláudia said...

"a man in a red and white outfit stuffing jam tarts in his mouth "

Zodiac, are you sure it was a man? Couldn't it be a woman (???) the size of a lorry known as auntie Phil?

dylan said...

Zodiac - stop!!! You're making me giggle! esp tart man - that conjours up a very funny image, PMSL

Claudia, I am still gobsmacked that they ever hired them in the first place. I'm sure that at £50k a month M3 wasn't the cheapest agency they could have hired but it sure was the least appropriate!

xx

Cláudia said...

Apparently M3 specialises in fraud, Dylan. Somehow it's poetic, isn't it?

Zodiac said...

Claudia,

Now, now, that is not nice, how would she fit through a pantry window.

dylan said...

arrgggh! Claudia! now you have started too. Need a rousing rendition of "who ate all the pies?" i think :) ROTFLMAO!!

& yes, poetic it is re M3. xx

dylan said...

Zodiac, I forgot to mention that the pantry window was of record-breaking pork pie size. Or should that read - record breaking porky pie size?

xx

Cláudia said...

Dylan, ROTFLMAO

Zodiac said...
Claudia,

Now, now, that is not nice, how would she fit through a pantry window.


Zodiac, PMSL

dylan said...

Oh - I have a version of a really old joke for you:

Q)How can you tell if aunty phil has been in your fridge?

A)Footprints in the custard!!!

Boom boom!

Ahhh, the old ones are always the best!

xx

Cláudia said...

Dylan, lololol

Zodiac said...

Dylan,

The 8 second window of opportunity is possibly of record breaking pork pie size, just like your pantry window,IMO.

dylan said...

Zodiac, is that all philo pastry needs to eat a giant pork pie??

The eyes boggle! xx

dylan said...

From anonymous earlier:

Nicola Peckett, of the Foundation for the Study of Infant Deaths, said: "Sleeping on a sofa with your baby is one of the most risky things you can do. It's tragic - a mother can fall asleep and just wake to find her baby dead."

She said the chance of cot death is 30 times greater when "sofa-sharing" than when the baby sleeps in a cot.

Anonymous, you nonce, I didn't sleep with my baby deliberately instead of putting her in a cot. Give me any mother who hasn't dozed off for a few moments whilst feeding in the first few days after birth and i will tell you that they have probably been on the double espressos. Not good for baby. Tends to get into the milk ya know. Idiot. Get a life of your own and stop googling away for the spite of it, sweetie.

Pah!

Di said...

Before I read back..

Marga, thank you :o)

Di said...

Hope

Phew!!! I bet you are glad you got that off your chest :o))))))))))))

Di said...

I am not here for long, can anyone summarize the case of today for me I would be very grateful.

Thanks :o)

I have been out all day and have just been watching the tennis poor Murray:o(( but Nedal! what a player.

dylan said...

Hi Di,

How are you?

Not much to relay as we've been bantering a bit, but basically, discussion has been about what the ramifications are of the the case being "closed". There's a very good post by Zodiac as to what Chris Friend's point of view is and Claudia has said that the McCanns are changing their detective agency.

Other than that, I think i'm up for a Pride of Britain award for the heinous crime of being exhausted after having given birth!!

Take care xx

Take care xx

bath theory said...

I am alive by the way. I have been snowballed at work and after tomorrow it will be a lot better.

Viv, these are your words ...

'I firmly believe this case is not over yet, but ultimately the McCanns will face charges, we just cannot be clear when that will be. If they have arranged for false sightings of Madeleine this is very serious evidence against them in relation to homicide and certainly not something the police would shelve or ignore!'

I BELIEVE SO TO VIV, because they may be able to wriggle about legally at the moment but sooner or later time will catch up with them (IMO)

Ethically and morally it already has for the general public. Once the two younger ones start school I believe they will feel it more than they do now if the legal process hasn't caught up with them by then.

Money can push things away rom you but sooner or later the truth raises to the service. (IMO)

bath theory said...

Di, I was pleased for Spain as Cesc Fabregas plays for Arsenal and my family speak Spanish plus they were the better team. The germans ran out of ideas and creativity.

Di said...

Hi Dyl

Thanks for the update..

I hope you have cleared a space for the award!! and don't forget to take pictures and post them here.... LOL

Whilst out today, I was told that
7th July court case could be postponed. I do not know whether there is any truth in this as have not had time to search.

docmac said...

Hi Dyl

The stats quoted and attributed to Ms Peckett are so way, WAY out it would be best if you ignore them. The subject is far more complex than simple co-sleeping, wherever this may take place.

Di said...

Hi Bath Theory

My other half agrees with you, the better team. :o))

Sadly someone always has to lose but that's life!!

bath theory said...

Indeed, now Docmac how is your MOP an dis it in full working order. You know I mean clean and ready for a quick bit of work? :)

bath theory said...

PS I don't know why I am so confident that legally these two are in for trouble. It is a strong feeling I have inside over it though. As I said ethically and morally they have already been judged by the public. I mean you don't need evidence to prove that if you put your hand in a fire ...IT WILL BURN. People can use inference and deduction. These are skills handed down from caveman times. Didn't the South Shields Gazette say 95 per cent thought them negligent. So they are not exactly going to ask the audience are they. Ask a rich friend maybe but not the audience.

Cláudia said...

Dylan, next time you should go out for a few hours and leave your 2 or 3 day old baby in the cot while you eat, drink and laugh with the friends you are so much into. That is responsible parenting, darling. Do not forget. The further away from your child, the better. In that case, if something bad happens, you can always say: "Hey, I wasn't there! Got nothing to do with it!".

Cláudia said...

Hey, Doc! ;-)

docmac said...

Yes Bath, and hello :-)

I'm just looking at the thread "Satirical images of the McCann case" over on 3a. Head on over, go to page 78 and look at DixonCox's take on the "Ninja Bundlemen".

ROTFLMAO!! I don't use this acronym often :-)))

bath theory said...

I guess if you spend all day talking to children and parents trying to wriggle out of the truth then it comes quite natural to spot something amiss when you watch people on television.

Today I spent 23 minutes sat next to a girl my colleague saw graffiti a desk. My colleague saw it and she knew she had been seen.

I sat after an initial question for all that time until until eventually she admitted it calmly. Imagine how difficult it is to sort out issues in these young children. She was fortunate I am patient and calm and had a task that the rest of the class could get on with.

Deceit and deception is ingrained in many early on in their life.

docmac said...

Look down near the bottom of this page. lolololol!!!

docmac said...

Hi Claudia :-)

bath theory said...

Hey Doc I popped up to Wimbledon to get a really cool tennis bag. It's much bigger than you think and is very roomy

bath theory said...

I've lost my favourite link Doc what is the address again for the 3A's.

docmac said...

Oh crikey, I've just lost control! Look at the whole of that page!! Oh goodness, I've got to pause for 10 minutes and mop the tears off the floor!

docmac said...

BT

Just click on the blue link in my post and navigate from there.

bath theory said...

One mention of a clean mop to me doc and Claudia turned up right away !!

bath theory said...

Congratulations on your friends baby. It really is a most moving experience isn't it.

nancy said...

Rafael Nadal - won today again and just goes on and on, hopefully to the final! Oh those biceps - if only I was about 20 years younger!!!

Andrew Murray - played a great game and will be Wimbledon Champion one day I'm sure!!

nancy said...

Claudia -

So, finally, the McCanns have realised that Metodo 3 are naff, naff, naff, and not worth all those thousands they have paid them over the past year, which could have been paid to a deserving charity, or they could have got of their a...s and looked themselves.

Now they have employed a British firm of detectives. Well knock me down with a feather! Did it really take a year of 'nil points' to come to that decision!!

They really don't have the intelligence of a newt do they?

Justice for Madeleine!

Cláudia said...

Bath Theory, yes, it is a blessing. Her mother can't stop looking at her and the father looks like he has set up a fund! :-)
You know I don't like you two discussing Doc's mop in my absence!

hey, Doc. Going to look at the 3a link you posted.

Zodiac said...

Dylan,

Zodiac Zephyr, one of the members of the Foundation of Parents with Commonsense, says leaving your children alone whilst you sod of for dinner and drinks with your friends over 100mts away from where your children are left alone to fend for themselves open to all kinds of danger is one of the most risky things you can do. It's tragic - a mother can go and check on them and find one or all of them has come to harm, one or all of them have wandered off, one or all of them has choked. She said the chances of any of these things happening is a zquillion times greater than an abduction. It is only her opinion.

docmac said...

Hi Nancy, lol!

Yes, They said that about Henman for so many years. At least Andy is a Scot though :-)

Cláudia said...

Nancy, did M3 come up with a better result than the PJ? Maybe our police force should have charged. ;-)

Di said...

Must go now.

Thanks Doc for a good laugh, I think we all need it at times. No disrespect to Madeleine of course.

Not around tomorrow but hopefully will catch up after that.

x

docmac said...

Zodiac Zephyr's opinion is noted, accepted and agreed with. A zquillion times over.

Cláudia said...

Doc, the Shaolin Bundleman PMSL!!!!

nancy said...

A comment on 3A's today:

"Remember Baby Grace in the United States, found in a box in the sea? And remember how there was a complete lack of coverage in the press and complete lack of comment from the McCanns despite the size and description of Grace being very close to Madeleine's."

Yes, I do remember that and how for once the McCanns, CM and the McCann supporting British press kept their comments to themselves over the whole affair! It makes you wonder why they wanted that particular item kept under wraps eh?

docmac said...

Hi and bye Di, sleep well.

docmac said...

And how did you like Clarrie on his BMX bike? :-)))))

Zodiac said...

Claudia,

LOL!!

'The further away from your child, the better.'

Then when they call or cry for you. You have no chance of hearing them and thay have no chance of disturbing your dinner with friends. Well within the bounds of responsible parenting. I'll have another glass of Merlot, thank you very much...slurp...slurp.

Zodiac said...

Bye all,

Off for a glass of Merlot.
Nite x.

Cláudia said...

Doc, he looked very fit. And sexy. Well, at least if you look at him with pro eyes. Those same eyes who make the celebrities role model parents! ;-)

Zodiac, I think parents should encourage their childrens' independence from a very young age. That's called modern, responsible parenting. ;-)

Cláudia said...

Bye, Zodiac and Di.

Cláudia said...

Doc, page 80. Pink part. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

docmac said...

Claudia, the hair or that thing he's holding that's almost bigger than his arm! Jeepers.

Cláudia said...

Doc, all of it! lolololol

docmac said...

Nancy yes I saw that comment. Was it not in Ironside's post about the little Italian girl who disappeared?

Cláudia said...

Doc, and some idiots on the Pink Sewer think that saying the celebrities neglected their children is libel! lololol

Cláudia said...

Doc, page 76 6:27 am. lololol

nancy said...

Docmac -

Yes, it was, but I decided not to copy that because at the end it was thought that maybe the little girl's uncle was mentally unstable and had made up the story of giving her an overdose. If that was true though, it is an exact replica of what many of us have been saying happened to Maddie!
I'll follow the story on and see what the outcome is - Ironside always comes up with something interesting!

nancy said...

Off now for a glass of vino tinto on the cool terrace and then to bed - it's been roasting here today!

Good Night one and all and see you all again tomorrow!

Justice for Madeleine!

docmac said...

Yes thanks Nancy he always does a lot of research doesn't he. If only I had the time...

Cláudia said...

Nancy, read you tomorrow.

docmac said...

Nite Nancy and enjoy!

Claudia there are a LOT of great ones :-) They're still going too on page 83. See the 'bent' one.

I have to go too now. Boa noite amiga.

Cláudia said...

Doc, I will.

Boa noite. Dorme bem.

Zodiac said...

'Doc, and some idiots on the Pink Sewer think that saying the celebrities neglected their children is libel! lololol'

Claudia,

That old cherry. Sung by an Apalchian mountain dweller.

When we dont like what peeps say we will play on our banjo
We will sing that boring old
ground chorus called libel.
Oh libel...oh libel...!
Be careful what you say, cos...
......we'll say libel...oh libel!
You say the sky is blue
Well we will surely sue
We will sing libel...oh libel!
Can you prove the sky is blue
Cause we are surely gonna sue
We will sing libel...oh libel!

The above makes as much sense as the Pro's spout.

Cláudia said...

Zodiac, exactly! :-)

Joe said...

I have to disagree with BT that the McCanns will face charges. I do not believe this will happen now. The PJ and the Prosecutors office IMO will be glad to see the back of this case.In due course we will get the official announcement that the case has been shelved. It would be impossible to prove any other charge than neglect in court because a) there is no body. b) no confession. It appears, despite all the 3A posters and the press, that the Tapas 9 have not broken ranks at all. No Judge or Jury could convict on circumstantial,indicative or highly suggestive evidence as their would always be a reasonable doubt that Madeline may be alive. I do believe that the PJ have solved the case but absolute irrefutable proof in court is another matter. With regard to negligence charges these will not be laid IMO, as it would appear to the public at large that the PJ/Prosecutors are being vindictative and punishing the McCanns for losing their daughter, when many may believe that she was taken, especially in the absence of serious charges or proof that they were involved.

The McCanns will have to live with the loss of their child and in time the may realize that nothing is worth the loss of a child, nothing.

lizzy said...

Hi Joe,
After reading your post I think you are correct in your assumption that there will be no charges, everything you say makes sense in light of the reporting today.
I only hope though that this is spin by CM and the Portuguese judge will decide to proceed but appears unlikely, as you say it is highly unlikley they will even face neglect charges, I think when Claudia said a few months ago justice may come but not in the way you would expect, she may have been referring to Amaral's book which I think will be very revealing...hopefully will be out soon....Lizzy

dylan said...

Oh b****r! Just lost my post.

Can't type it again as i've a chronic case of side-splitting laughter from the 3A's link Doc posted!

Thanks Zodiac Zephyr, Claudia and Docmac for fighting my corner! Poor anon, let it believe it has found a moment of triumph from its stupid google item, I don't believe in cruelty to animals!

Off to bed now to rest my aching sides. Nice to read you again Nancy, Di and BT.

Goodnight & sleep well.

xx

Zodiac said...

Joe,

I do not agree. A crime is crime. I believe child neglect is a crime and those who practise it are accountable just like any other criminal. I am sure the Judicial system do not worry about a vindictive label else every criminal can say they are just being vindictive. With regard to
a)there is no body, I listen to what this man says:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6980000/newsid_6988000/6988040.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&nol_storyid=6988040&bbcws=1

Also there is no Jury in PT only 3 Judges, I believe.

I am of the same opinion of BT.

JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE
JUSTICE FOR ALL NEGLECTED CHILDREN
TO IGNORE THE NEGLECT OF THE 3 McC
CHILDREN IS TO IGNORE M AND ALL NEGLECTED CHILDREN,IMO.

Joe said...

Hi Lizzy,

Yes they will perhaps have several uncomfortable months when stuff starts to come out such as the facts and the timelines. I think they will be stressed about all this info getting into the public domain and all the questions that they may throw up. They will not be able to hide behind secrey laws if asked by any questions by real journalists, instead GM will be probably just storm out or alternatively we will get get spin spin and new sightings to deflect our attention. They have set new standards in how to child care and how to behave when made a suspect. I do not think any of their new standards would be tolerated in the UK though.

Joe said...

Hi Zodiac,

I agree that neglect is a crime, especially as if the McCanns are to be believed and Madeline was taken. Then their neglect is fact with tragic consequences and they would be found guilty IMO. It is up to the Prosecutors to decide whether to proceed or not, and I respect your opinion, but I do not believe that any charges will be laid.

viv said...

Hiya all

Doc - thanks for the link to absolutely hilarious pictures and posts on the 3As. I have to say they got some brilliant comedians on there. Philomena the salad dodger and Gerry on the BMX having a bumpy ride back from the dump caused me to shed real tears:-)

The last time that a UK citizen was prosecuted in the UK for a homicide committed abroad was in 2005. There are also many successful convictions for homicide without the body, if this were not the case, murder would be pretty easy to get away with!

Why would both British and Portuguese Police give up on prosecuting this couple? The police are not at all struck on allowing criminals to get away with murder, particularly when they then decide to cash in on their deadly deed.

Viv x

Zodiac said...

Hi Joe,

We all have our own thoughts and feelings about this horrible case. I believe in Justice, I do not believe in Spin. I believe that Spin is exactly what the world has been subjected to especially yesterday and today. The Portuguese Attorney General stated yesterday that no decision has been made yet. I will wait until there is a statement from Portugal saying the case has been shelved. Even if it has been shelved that does not mean that the McC's are cleared as being announced in the British Press/Media although I will not be surprised that is what will be printed as though it is. If it is shelved I do hope the Arguidi status remains intact and the Fund given to Charity if it is sheleved under homicide. I also repect your opinion but I believe to ignore the neglect is to ignore the innocent 3 year old child that disappeared.


Night Joe, I am off up the wooden hill I have an early start tomorrow. Read you another day. x.

viv said...

I have just been catching up and read this piece in The Guardian.

So the McCanns are not pursuing their High Court battle against Leicester Police now, could that be because they worked out they would lose! Act in haste, repent at leisure. Starting these proceedings and admitting that Madeleine was made a Ward of Court was another really bad move. If you are certain you have a good case, then you go ahead! To me, this is yet another sign of just how precarious the McCanns position really is.
Viv x

McCanns begin fight for access to police files as Portuguese end Madeleine search· Prosecutor to decide whether to close case
· Parents vow to continue private investigation
Steven Morris and Brendan de Beer in Portimão and Graham Keeley The Guardian, Wednesday July 2, 2008 Article history
Parents of missing child Madeleine McCann, Kate and Gerry McCann look at a giant billboard of her daughter on the beach near the Portuguese resort of Lagos Photograph: Reuters

Madeleine McCann's parents were fighting last night for access to police documents they believe will help them find their child after it emerged that Portuguese detectives have finally completed their investigation.

Gerry and Kate McCann, who are still officially suspects, hope this development means they will be cleared of involvement in their daughter's disappearance. But their campaign team believe it also means the Portuguese police have given up hope of finding Madeleine.

The McCanns are said to be "determined" that their team of private investigators should be allowed to examine police files in Portugal so their own search can continue. Their spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said: "There is great work going on behind the scenes, very diligent work in many countries. Kate and Gerry will never rest until they know what has happened to her. If she's still alive they will never rest until they see her come home.

"The police information is a key component in that. If the police are not going to go any further on the criminal investigation then, for the love of God, that information could help find her or at least bring to justice whoever has taken her. The information in their files surely cannot sit on the shelf gathering dust. It has to be released."

Madeleine went missing from a holiday apartment in the resort of Praia da Luz on the Algarve in May last year.

In September the McCanns were named arguidos - suspects. One theory detectives seemed to be working on was that three-year-old Madeleine was accidentally killed at the apartment and her body hidden. The McCanns fiercely deny any involvement.

Yesterday three Portuguese newspapers reported that the case had been "shelved" by the police. One, Expresso, said police had failed to obtain conclusive evidence pointing to abduction, murder or the concealment of a body.

Later the attorney general's office in Portugal, where secrecy laws prevent information about ongoing cases being released, issued a rare statement to clarify the position. The office confirmed the "final report" had been prepared by the police and sent to the public prosecutor. The statement said the report would be considered carefully, adding: "The prosecutor's office will proceed with the global analysis and evaluation of the whole case (which contains dozens of files) in order to determine whether or not the necessary and sufficient conditions have been met allowing for the case's closure."

The statement concluded by saying that the case remained "under judicial secrecy until mid-August".

The McCanns' team will be disappointed at the continuing secrecy. They were due to launch a high court case in London on Monday to get access to details of the case held by Leicestershire police, their local force. It is believed this case will be postponed while the couple await news from Portuguese prosecutors. But they believe thousands of pieces of information in the Portuguese files could help find Madeleine.

The search, which the McCanns' team say is becoming more sophisticated, is being hampered because private investigators are not allowed to work in Portugal until the police inquiry is over. The family believe Madeleine could still be in the country. Carlos Pinto de Abreu, a lawyer who represents the McCanns in Portugal, told the Guardian he would study the case files from the "first to the last page" once they were released.

The lifting of arguido status will also be welcomed by the McCanns, who believe it has put people off helping them. Lawyers for the only other arguido in the case, the property consultant Robert Murat, were waiting to hear from the Portuguese prosecutors. Murat denies any involvement.

The McCanns did not make any public comment yesterday. Kate McCann's father, Brian Healy, said: "Kate and Gerry should have never have been given arguido status."

Henrique Machado, of the Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manhã, which reported that the case was being closed, told the Guardian: "This is not surprising. With no evidence to go on this was only expected." He said many people in Portugal felt the police were overwhelmed by the frenzy surrounding the case.

"In Portugal there is a feeling this was always a difficult case from the start which was not helped by the media coverage."

The latest developments came only hours after police officer Gonçalo Amaral, who was removed from the case in October, retired. He is believed to be writing a book on the case.

Cláudia said...

Boa noite, Viv.
Dorme bem.
xxxx

viv said...

Boa Noite darling


Hope Baby Sara is OK

Luv Viv x

Cláudia said...

Viv, she's fine and back home! :-)
Dorme bem, querida Viv.
Beijinhos.

viv said...

Oh that is wonderful news!

Thanks darling

Dorme bem querida amiga


Viv x

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

Thanks for the link to The Telegraph article pointing out that although Clarence always insisted "operationally" they were extremely pleased with M3 it is now revealed, big surprise, they found not the slightest trace of Madeleine being abducted, being on the trail of these so called abductors just before Christmas was just one big lie! As they were instructed by Kate and Gerry McCann they must have been authorised by them to release this "big lie".

I am a little startled by the suggestion they have a "new" firm of UK detectives who will follow up any unclosed leads from police files. Well hang on a minute, what about Hogan International who sued Express Newspapers for libel who were acting for them in the U|K? There is nothing new about this!

The Telegraph report is incredibly biased. The reality is the police have now completed the final report on the case and forwarded to the prosecutor. But somewho this translates in The Telegraph's words to the case being shelved and no evidence..did they get Rosie's crystal ball out! When a prosecutor is looking at a case, there can be only be two reasons for that, one, he is considering appropriate charges in Portugal, based on the evidence, two he is liasing with British Police as to appropriate charges to be brought in UK or as to how they can facilitate the further investigation of this matter in the UK, where the prime suspects are!


So the McCanns investigation looking for Madeleine, is now, fourteen months later, becoming more sophisticated, well we are really impressed with the parental devotion, as ever. Their tactics are changing for one reason only IMO, they are completely desperate and really don't know where to spin off to next!

Serves them right, as someone said above, forgive I cannot remember who, money may buy you time, it may buy you procrastination, but what is the point of that, Portuguese and British Police are true professionals accustomed to bringing killers to justice.

I don't blame Hogan or whoever for not wanting to be named, not too good on the c.v.!


McCanns hire new team of British detectives
By Nick Britten
Last Updated: 4:00PM BST 02/07/2008
Gerry and Kate McCann have hired a new team of British detectives after the Spanish firm they employed failed to find Madeleine.

EDDIE MULHOLLAND
Gerry and Kate McCann speaking at the Ocean Club Resort in Portugal the night after Madeleine disappeared
The couple have been paying Spain-based Metodo 3 £50,000 a month for nine months but they have not located Madeleine's whereabouts or found out what has happened to her.

Now it is understood they have been placed in an £8,000 retainer while a new team has been assembled in London, primarily in the hope that the police files into the investigation will be released, giving them new clues to follow up.

The McCanns are expected to have their arguido status lifted in the coming weeks. When it is, their lawyers will demand access to the paperwork.

Article continuesadvertisement

The files, thought to run to several boxes, will be passed to a team of private detectives to pour through looking for fresh leads. They are believed to contain no theory about what may have happened to the four-year-old, but may well throw up new leads.

Details about the new team, and what they are being paid, are being kept under wraps.

A source close to the McCanns said today: "There is a new team working on it, based primarily in the UK although there are elements working abroad.

"They don't want to be identified for operational reasons. If we get access to any official documentation - either from Portugal or Britain - it will be examined by them.

"Any active leads it is felt the police have not followed up properly or left open-ended, they would move on."

Friends and neighbours of Gerry and Kate McCann this morning vowed to stand by the couple and called for the Portuguese police to “leave them alone”.

After news emerged that Portuguese police are closing their inquiry into Madeleine's death, residents in Rothley, Leics, accused the police of bungling the investigation and called for the couple's status as suspects to be lifted immediately.

Mr McCann, 39, and his 40-year-old wife have been told they will know their fate by the middle of August.

Technically the public prosecutor could still press ahead with a prosecution but in the light of such lack of evidence and the police shelving their investigation it is virtually inconceivable.

nancy said...

Good morning everyone:

Viv -

Your posts give a glimmer of hope that the neglectful ones could still be brought to justice, in spite of the Telegraph article saying it is virtually inconceivable. I hadn't realised that without a body people had, in the past, been convicted of homicide.

Brian Healy's comments that K&G should never have been made arguidos made me really annoyed. Just why should these two be exempted from being suspects when all parents are the first ones suspected after a child goes missing - so why should they be exceptions just because they are now famous media celebrities - a very clever move to make all those mobile phone calls and get the ball rolling instead of going out to look for Madeleine, Gerry!

As for the spin doctor, CM, he is really beginning to bug me and the best thing about this case hopefully coming to some sort of conclusion will be to get him off our screens with his daily ramblings to what he sees as the McCann's adoring public! yawn, yawn!!

He said - (once again)-

"K&G will not rest until they know what has happened to her" (her meaning Madeleine) - really CM, then why are they now 'resting' on their 'well earned' holiday? Leaving no stone unturned no doubt!

This sentence from him just shows how pathetic his utterings are:

"If she (meaning Madeleine), is still alive they will never rest until they see her come home"!

A ridiculous statement to make.
I think he will be on his way out soon, just like Metodo 3!!

Nx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Good Morning Nancy

If you want to read about a series of murders with no bodies, Google JOHN GEORGE HAIGH, the acid bath murderer.

An undissolved gall stone gave him away. (= DNA and smell of death???).

I have a sort of personal interest in this case as in the 60's as a Fire Prevention Officer I had to inspect a Taxi Office which in conversation with the proprieter I found to be Haigh's old house. I was invited to see the workshop, an invitation I accepted. I swear to this day that in one corner there were containers which looked very like acid carboys.

hope4truth said...

To Say the word Sorry is sometimes a very hard word to say.

Admitting you are wrong (especialy if the person you have to admit this to is not a nice person) is also very difficult.

Looking bad is not easy. We all make mistakes we are human.

The McCann's dont want to say they are sorry they dont want to admit they are wrong about their view of aceptable childcare and have somehow turned themselves into the victims of this terible crime.

This is why I find it hard to believe a word that comes out of their mouths or their hired spin CM.

Madeleine is the only victim in all this did they really expect the PJ to write down their version of events and just run with it?

Are they so used to being right and not questioned that when any of us dare to mention the fact that they neglected their children night after night we are slagged off and bullied for being so cruel to them?

Dyl yesterday posted about how tiered you are when a baby is born and falling asleep on the settee with her baby in her arms. Retort from other side "oh not so perfect parent she could have killed her child" Yes she could have but any mother will know just how exausted you are when a baby is born and if you are lucky enough to never fall asleep while feeding then good on you.

Many nights I woke up in a panic that I had fallen asleep while feeding and after a few seconds seeing my baby fast asleep in the crib next to my bed and trying to remeber putting her back safley. Sometimes I did doze off for a short while none of us have ever said we are perfect parents but it is used as a wepon by some (and if I was a perfect parent what would be wrong with that?)...

The diffrence between most people and the McCanns is if a tradgedy occured and any of our baby's died as a result of us falling asleep (god forbid) we would feel guilty for the rest of our lives and although time heals we would allways be thinking "What If?" Not many people would be trying to push the blame elsewhere.

The McCann's did not make a mistake when neglecting their children they made a choice and they want the world to believe because of that selfish choice Madeleine is in the hands of a Peadophile Ring. They wish they had been there when she was taken? Educated people would realise if they had of been she would not have been.

This is not a we did wrong statement this is a oh poor us statement and is why more and more people who felt for them last year are confused and discusted when they spin.

Madeleine was a beautiful child whatever happend to her is just not acceptable stop the spin it is discusting. I am not intrested in Gerry and Kate and how they feel (as they really dont seem intrested in Madeleine read Gerry's Blog's) where is the love in them for a beautiful daughter she was well down the list of who they worried about when they realised she was missing sorry it is not normal.

If these two are allowed to get away with the serious neglect (and how much more serious can it be if the child is never to be seen again) and can profit from Madelines torment there is something very very wrong with the way we think of children in this country.

IF GA will stand on TV and say she died on 3rd May in Apartment 5A then he is either a raving looney or he has the facts to support it. I cant understand why any one would risk all they have in a law suite if the information is not fact time will tell.

Sometimes you have to say Sorry not for me not for anyone else but for Madeleine a 3 year old child is worth so much more than her parents and she really deserves to know you can admit you were wrong you loved her and you are sorry you let her down. That is what the McCann's did night after night and for all the children who are now in care because their parents did the same thing at least they are safe and they were taken because their parents negelcted them they were just lucky and were found in time.

God Bless Madeleine and all children who are not loved as they should be and put as number 1 in their parens list of prioritys.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hope

I think you put into words what many of us think but do not have the ability to express in such terms.

Thank you!

nancy said...

ICTOAN -

Hi - and thanks for that tale of the Acid Murderer Haigh - amazing -one gall stone was still around; so it just goes to show that fate can step in when you least expect it to.

That was a bit of a grisly experience for you but I suppose you were used to every day horrors if you were a fire officer- what courage that takes!

dylan said...

Good morning Hope and ICTOAN,

Hope, yet another excellent post & thank you. ICTOAN - I'll have a look at your link later, just hope it's not too stomach churning!

I can't stay as I'm going to go and do some work today - one day off is enough!!

I see that Mark55 has picked up on the falling asleep on the sofa bandwagon and is trotting out the usual googled c**p. Oh they are all so clever aren't they?! Surely they must have better things to do with their typing fingers. I do and here's two of them just for them!!!

Docmac, Mark55 is questioning your profesionalism again for not slating me, yawn,yawn,yawn! Pros - sue me! I still have all of my perfectly healthy children with me so you'll find that a bit difficult won't you? Just to reiterate: I did NOT fall asleep for hours on the sofa with my baby.
When you breastfeed, you get what is called a "let-down syndrome". It is a hormone that is released that is designed to let hind milk flow which is rich in nutrients. This hormone makes you relaxed, sleepy and also makes you very thirsty. A baby can feed for 1/2 an hour and they often doze off feeding. Towards the end of the feed, this would be when I dozed off. It was just for a few minutes. I know because I WEAR MY WATCH!!! I never fell asleep in bed with them and, unlike some neglectful people, I never left my children to their own devices.
So FFS, get off of your rickety bandwagon, and go and do something valid with your pitiful lives.

Oh and BTW, could you please tell me what was the statistical confidence level in the stats quoted? Was it 0.01, 0.05 or more likely: 10^-15???? PMSL!


xx (for hope and ICTOAN)

nancy said...

Hi Dylan -

You don't have to explain anything to those s..t stirrers on the troll blog! The two fingers sign is much more appropriate!

You know, and your kids know, that you are a Mum to be proud of - let's face it none of them have gone missing have they?

Just tell them to p..s off!!

Well, I've just done it for you!!

Nx

nancy said...

Hello Hope - excellent post again!

The McCanns would have seen a much more sympathetic public reaction after they 'lost' Madeleine had they shown the slightest sense of remorse and said something along these lines:

"We and our friends made disastrous decisions when we decided to go out and leave our very young children alone on numerous occasions while we enjoyed our evenings for our own selfish reasons.

We would implore any parents who may think to do the same whilst on holiday or at home to think twice and never endanger your children's lives. You all know just how tragically one of our social evenings ended up - it could have been all of those children but for the grace of God, so please don't ever leave your children alone - not ever!.

Quite straightforward really for genuinely grieving parents, but K&G and their pals are a different breed - they are pompous egoists who only think about what is affecting them at any particular time, not about the affect their actions did have and could have had on all those children. Shame on them!

As for their supposedly intellectual spokesman, he must have know that the McCanns were heading in the wrong direction in all of this, but in my opinion wanted to make sure he had a long media job with his face on the front pages every day; and he failed to give them the right advice. Shame on him too!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Nancy

A no body murder conviction that is probably more relevent (and up to date).

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/
mi_qn4158/is_20021220/ai_n12662611

dylan said...

Thanks Nancy :)

Oh, & I've just realised, bad stats: 10^-15 - correction: 0.99 as the former is almost a certainty! They will have a field day with that!! Not that i expect them to have a clue what it means. I don't need a crystal ball to know that there will be some more googling in the pipeline!lol!

Really must go now. Have a good day, all.

xx

Zodiac said...

Hi all,

Hope,

Spot on!


ICTOAN,

Your post re Haigh's old house gave me tingles down my spine. How did you feel in that environment?

Nancy,

I am fed up seeing/reading the puppet and I too hope he is on his way out along with met3 and the parents in tow. From now until the
Portuguese Attorney General makes a desicion the Media/press will be bombarded with Wee Clarry Pinky Spin as he runs through the towns. Who was it that said, he lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth? I will wait for an offical ststement and will consider the UK Press/Media to be his lapdogs of poopaganda, IMO.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Zodiac

Although I had heard of the Acid Bath Murders I had not realised that Haigh had lived in Crawley. I was of course interested by my “discovery” but didn’t have any emotional reaction. Probably because I was totally gob smacked. Perhaps if I had read up on the case before my visit instead of after, I may have reacted differently. I can still visualise the room but am not sure now if it an image that has changed with the passing of 40 years.

Zodiac said...

ICTOAN,

The thought of him living there and what went on behind closed doors is creepy.

Joe said...

I found this in the Mccann files and is very interesting that this man had not been interviewed or he may have changed is story if I recall, I am not sure. its a very bad oversight not to have at least inerviewed this man.
....................................
Witness was forgotten 24horas

Mistake in the rogatory letter prevents interrogation of Irishman

Text: Carlos Tomas
02 July 2008
Thanks to 'astro' for translation

In a report that was sent to the Public Ministry, the PJ admits that it does not have evidence to accuse Maddie's parents and does not know what happened to the little girl. A case where Justice is revealed as ineffective, like other recent cases that we remember in these pages.

Madeleine's parents will remain arguidos and may still be accused over having left their children alone

An important witness was not officially heard by the Judiciária within the investigations into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, 24horas was able to establish. The PJ requested for the witness to be questioned, in the rogatory letter that was sent to England, but the Public Ministry and the special team that was created to investigate the case, headed by the superior coordinator Paulo Rebelo, forgot that the witness is Irish, and is not within the acting sphere of the British Home Office, the equivalent to the Portuguese Internal Affairs and Justice ministries.

"The Home Office controls all the information that is related with the English territory. Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are outside this cabinet’s control", a source at Eurojust, the entity that helps European authorities when it is necessary to establish international contacts, explained to 24horas. "If we are requested to speak to the British authorities, we have liaison officials that do just that. But it is necessary to specify what country the request is destined to. In the Maddie case, it was requested only from England", the same source clarifies.

Case has not been archived

Neither the PJ nor the Public Ministry have requested the hearing of the Irishman who, in his first witness statement, early September last year, guaranteed to the PJ that he saw Gerry carry a child away in his arms on the evening of the disappearance, having clarified that he only remembered who it actually was after he saw on television how the missing child's father carried Sean, one of her siblings, when they arrived at Birmingham airport.

The problem was that the hearing of this witness and of his family was requested to the English authorities, not the Irish. "It's a mistake that may have cost the investigation dearly", a source at the Public Ministry in Portimão admitted. The PJ knows very little about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. It only holds a few witness statements that say that the child stopped being seen from 6 p.m. onwards, and the dogs' smelling that detected cadaver odour in a car that was rented by the McCanns 25 days after Maddie disappeared.

Therefore, the Portuguese police hold no evidence that Madeleine's parents killed her or concealed her body, as they suppose. According to a report that was sent to the Public Ministry this week, the PJ team, lead by superior coordinator Paulo Rebelo, did not manage to find an element to incriminate the McCanns. There is only the hypothesis of accusing them of exposure and abandonment of minors, crimes that may lead to a condemnation of between five and ten years in prison.

Thus the McCanns will stop being arguidos within the coming months, but they will gain access to the process from mid-August onwards.

Pinto Monteiro, the Republic's General Prosecutor, manifested yesterday that the Maddie process is not over yet. "The Public Ministry will globally analyse and evaluate the entire process (which contains tens of volumes) in order to determine whether or not other diligences are requested or if the necessary and sufficient conditions have been gathered, in order to close the inquiry and to elaborate the final dispatch", the Prosecutor’s Office refers in a statement.

hope4truth said...

Hello All

I am in and out of meetings and am posting and going as soon as I hit send (not ignoring you all)...

Dyl they are idiots of course you should not fall asleep with a baby as it could result in an accident we all know this we are not bloody stupid. The diffrence is if god forbid a child dies in this way the Mother would not be screaming it was everyone elses falt bar theirs and would spend the rest of their life feeling guilty (because of an accident that as you say is a response to breast feeding or general tieredness after giving birth)...

I bet there are not many mothers (if any) Pro or Anti that have sometime or another not fallen asleep while feeding their very young baby..

It is not about being a perfect parent we all make mistakes.

Leaving 3 very small children alone night after night to go to the bar with friends is not a mistake it is a choice and the tragic outcome they want us to believe happend because of their selfish choice is exactly why no one in their right mind would think it was an option...

Got to go see you all later xxx

nancy said...

Hi Joe -

Thanks for the extract from the 3A's - another interesting article!

What I don't understand is if we are all in the European Union why is this man's evidence of his sighting not being allowed to be taken into account. It just doesn't make sense!

I bet the McCanns are not worried about seeing that particular bit of evidence, even though they are after seeing all the sightings held by the LP's.

It must be very frustrating for the man involved, but will have drawn a big sigh of relief from Gerry McCann I would imagine!

docmac said...

Thanks Dyl

Yes I realise now that showing understanding and compassion for non-smoking, non-drinking mothers who occasionally get sleepy while breastfeeding their infants is totally unprofessional. I have thus reported myself to the ethics committee and I expect a 6 month suspension at the very least.

Cláudia said...

Doc, the ignorant xenophobe prentend teeth puller knows how to google! ;-)

docmac said...

Yes Claudia, but he doesn't know how to do it well enough to separate the shit from the shaft.

Cláudia said...

Doc, you can't expect much from an ignorant xenophobe pretend tooth puller, can you? L is still so quiet, isn't it? And T too.

Joe said...

Hi Nancy,

It is most odd that this witness has not since been questioned or volunteered himself to come forward and make an official statement. Why?

Never before have I seen a case where 2 suspects flee from a country after being questioned and then refuse point blank to assist the Police. The case then more than likely to be shelved and the British media on the whole claim the McCanns are to be cleared. It is gobstopping stuff and beyond belief that they were not questioned again, even if they refused to answer questions, at least it would be entered as evidence their lack of co-operation. If there was/is nothing concrete against them it asks why they have refused to help the PJ? The media in the UK appear to see nothing wrong here either.

nancy said...

Hi Joe -

You are absolutely right - the McCanns should have been questioned again when the PJ's were over here, but maybe, just maybe they have something up their sleeves that we don't know about.

At the moment it seems that those of us who see this case as an 'open and shut' case, are butting our heads against a brick wall. The odds seem stacked against the antis right now.

I read this on the 3's which made me chuckle!

Token did a thread:

"Maybe...they are innoccent"!

"This forum seems to have gone into some sort of meltdown. When the news broke that the Mccanns may not get charged for Madeleine's death, people found numerous reasons to explain this blaming everyone from Gordon Brown to CM, from J K Rowling to the Freemasons.

Yet the biggest reason why people aren't charged with crime is always ignored.

If the McCanns aren't charged, maybe the reason behind it is simple - because they are innocent.

The amount of evidence that people claim the PJ's have is massive, yet it seems that they do not even have enough evidence to charge the McCanns.

When the files are released I think it could shock a few people about how little evidence the PJ's actually have!"

Erin replied:

"Anyone for a bacon sandwhich? I just shot down two that flew over the house"!!

bath theory said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bath theory said...

Nancy
Of course you may be right but sometimes you look at people and their actions and get a feeling.

I am one of those people who has never knowingly misjudged a human being and I am in my early forties. Strange maybe but true. I very much doubt that this is the one I am wrong on.

Also things like the Jane Hill interview which showed that Kate did not search for her daughter and so on add credibility to the feeling I have.

As we said yesterday morally and ethically they are clearly negligent and this is merely the legal side of things. I firmly believe they will be in court hopefully very soon. That way actions and words around the holiday and Madeleine's disappearance etc can be scrutinized.

Statistically one so young disappearing like that points to one grouping - the family and friends and within that it is usually the parents.

The fact they ran away like they did is extremely telling for me.

We shall see. It is just a matter of time.Whether that be days, weeks, months or years.

Zodiac said...

Madeleine case “is not closed” says Attorney General


Madeleine’s parents Gerry and Kate McCann are to continue with an arguido status, until a decision is made by public prosecutors as to whether the case should be closed. Photo: PORTUGALIMAGES.NET

By: DAISY SAMPSON

daisy.sampson@the-resident.com

PORTUGAL'S ATTORNEY General has said no decision has been taken on the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Fernando Pinto Monteiro said the case continued to be assessed, despite Portuguese media reports on Tuesday that police will close it due to lack of evidence.

Madeleine’s parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, are both arguidos, or people of interest to the investigation, along with Briton Robert Murat.

Mr Monteiro said the final report from the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) had been received by prosecutors, and it “will be the object of careful analysis and consideration”.

He added: “Public prosecutors will proceed to the overall analysis to determine whether or not other action is necessary or whether the conditions are sufficient to rule that the investigation be closed and a final ruling made.”

The statement noted that the case remained covered by judicial secrecy until mid-August.

The Correio da Manha newspaper said on Tuesday that sources within Portugal’s judicial police said they “do not have sufficient evidence to allow formal charges to be brought against the McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter”.

The Jornal de Noticias said the police did not have enough evidence to charge either the McCanns or Mr Murat with any wrongdoing. “The police have not found the guilty,” the paper added.

A spokesman for the PJ told The Resident: “We are aware of the situation. However, we do not know the origin of the information and claims in the Portuguese media. We are now looking into the claims.”

Private searches

McCann family spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, told the BBC the family was awaiting confirmation of the latest media reports and if true, the Portuguese authorities “must lift their arguido status as a priority”.

“If they are true, it’s to be welcomed that Kate and Gerry are not to face any charges,” he said. “It’s quite right. They are innocent of any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance. They have suffered enough.”

Mr Mitchell said the family wanted to know whether police planned to stop searching for Madeleine and if so, their information should be made public so the McCanns could continue their private investigation.

“What happens to all those leads, all those contacts? There are thousands of pieces of information in those files,” he said.

The McCanns are due to go to the High Court on Monday to ask a judge to order some police files on the disappearance of their daughter to be released.

Robert Murat’s lawyer, Francisco Pagarete, said he had heard nothing from the Portuguese authorities about the case being closed.

Asked whether he would welcome such a development, Mr Pagarete said: “Yes, we will, but it depends on the way it’s going to be dropped. If it’s going to be dropped because there’s not enough evidence connecting my client to this case or if it’s going to be dropped because Robert hasn’t got any involvement in this case. Only the second way will make us happy.”

The Resident contacted Robert Murat, who said: “If this is true it would be fantastic but nobody has told me anything,” he said. “This has been said so many times to me we will just have to wait and see what happens.”

Meanwhile, Gonçalo Amaral, the inspector formerly responsible for coordinating the Madeleine McCann investigation, retired on Monday. He told Portuguese news agency Lusa: “The only way I can acquire freedom of expression is to leave the police.”


The paragraph below is pasted from the above article. The intense Spin that the public has been subjected to over the past few days only confirm to me, IMO, that this case will not just be closed.

“Public prosecutors will proceed to the overall analysis to determine whether or not other action is necessary or whether the conditions are sufficient to rule that the investigation be closed and a final ruling made.”

nancy said...

Hi BT and Zodiac:

Bath Theory -

Like yourself, I think I am a pretty good judge of character - I've hardly been wrong about anyone, but if I am I would be the first to admit it.

Gerry and Kate have never seemed a genuine couple concerned for their lost child to me and I can't see how other people don't share that same view.

I suppose that sounds a bit pompous but there is no way that parents who were seriously grieving would act the way they have!

Also they seem completely oblivious of the way the public see them.


Zodiac -

The news outlets in the UK have obviously been influenced by the Portuguese media who gave out the misleading story in the first place. The British media don't need much prompting to start ranting about the PJ's and making the bleeding heart McCanns the victims here.

I can remember a time when most of the newspapers in the UK were putting out front page stories of how suspicious the McCanns were, their cold attitude etc, and really dishing the dirt, but that all changed since the Express was sued!

The McCanns took their time in suing the DX if you remember - it was almost as if it was planned that way, in order to plead an unfair trial if it ever happened. I have a feeling they wont be the last newspaper to be sued if the McCanns are cleared.

Getting late now and not much going on here, so see you all tomorrow!

Nx

docmac said...

Claudia

Sorry, I was away. I have not visited the LTMS bog for a while now. They've certainly been very active and disruptive on 3A for the past couple of days, together with Mrbluesky himself. They are having a tough time of it though :-)

Cláudia said...

Hi, Doc. Sorry. I've also been away. Today was my birthday and I couldn't miss my own party. I'm not sure what blog you're talking about. I was only commenting because someone mentioned the pretend teeth puller some comments back, I think. And I also don't know much about the 3A. Except for the hilarious thread whose link you posted last night and which made me PMSL! :-)

docmac said...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!! May you be 29 forever, like me.

I had a surprise planned for you Claudia, but you ruined it now ;-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, lolololol
Can't I be like 21 or 22 forever? I would prefer that, if you don't mind!
P.S: Hey, I've seen you. You don't look 29. You don't look younger than 32, 33! ;-)

docmac said...

Claudia it may come as a surprise, but when I take the Donald Trump off I look about 37 :-)))) Mop's still 25 though.

Can't believe you destroyed my evil plan :-)

Cláudia said...

Oh, I bet your mop isn't a day older than 25! :-)
I'm quite worried about a friend of mine. Have you ever heard of someone dying after eating too much? That friend of mine is the skinniest guy I've ever seen. But he hasn't stopped eating all afternoon and evening. I'm quite afraid he'll just explode. never seen something like it. And he finds it damn funny. We were all mazed at what he was able to put inside his apparently tiny stomach.

Cláudia said...

*amazed.

docmac said...

No I have not. Could he be an undiagnosed diabetic?

But these tiny guys can do amazing things, much like Ninja Bundlemen.

Cláudia said...

Doc, nope. Healthy but incredibly hungry guys. It's amazing what he can eat.
Oh my, you shouldn't have said that. Tomorrow L will come up with a new suspect.

docmac said...

Claudia

Pleased to hear it. It it were my friend I would still stick a needle in him or prick his finger at the very least just to be sure.

The next suspect is not due for some time I'm sure. They don't want to distract attention away from the current spin.

Cláudia said...

Doc, I told him to see a doctor but he said that he had his anual check up a couple of months ago (he works in a bank and is forced to do it whether he wants it or not) and that everything is ok. I', just afraid he won't be able to support himself because of how much he eats! :-)
Hmmm, do you think so? Does that explain the 'silence'?

docmac said...

Lucky you put the 'u' in 'anual' there. Google 'central diabetes insipidus' in addition to mellitus too. Different condition, same first name. Some doctors miss a lot you know! I could give a reasonably recent example, but as it's your special day I don't want to make you nauseous.

What silence? There is always some element crowing on that side. Some less than others at the moment, mind you.

viv said...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO QUERIDA CLAUDIA!!!

Love from Viv
and All of Us
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Cláudia said...

Thankyou, dear Viv!!! :-)

Sorry Doc, was on the phone with a very dear friend. Yes, I know some doctors miss a lot! And some also lose lots of things ;-) As for the silence, you're right. But some of them seem quite shy... :-)

docmac said...

Claudia, go and enjoy the rest of your party.

Hi Viv :-)

atardi said...

Cláudia,

I just logged in to say:

"Hartelijk gefeliciteerd met je 29e verjaardag".

Cláudia said...

Doc, party is now over. No more food left! Hey, it started in the afternoon. I'm getting old you know? :-)

Joe said...

Here is some more info I found on the McCann files, some of which is interesting.......


Detectives "by the dozens" 24horas

McCanns hire more private detectives

Rute Coelho
03 July 2008
Thanks to 'astro' for translation

As soon as the judicial secrecy is lifted, the new investigators at the McCanns' service are going to follow leads the PJ could not investigate

Apart from the already known investigators of Metodo 3, the McCanns employed more private detectives through other agencies. They have, inclusively, a team of agents from a firm with headquarters in Great Britain, Clarence Mitchell, the spokesman for Madeleine's parents, confirmed to 24horas yesterday. In total, the private investigators amount "to the dozens", he said, without detailing the total number. "We are going to extend and deepen the investigation where it is necessary. As soon as the information that is in the process will be freed from judicial secrecy, both in England and in Portugal, our detectives are going to check and re-check the data that the Polícia Judiciária worked upon. They will also be able to operate in several countries more swiftly than the PJ", he explained. Mitchell underlined that this is not a "criticism of the Polícia Judiciária". After all, "just like the English police, the PJ is also conditioned by the communications that they have to make to Europol and to Interpol, and by the lack of means".

The Metodo 3 agency has not been receiving the generous monthly payment of 50 thousand pounds (63 thousand euros) for a long time. The Spanish detectives now receive 8 thousand pounds per month (10 thousand euros). "Metodo 3 only received 50 thousand pounds during the summer of 2007, when the detectives had to stay in the Algarve to collect information", Mitchell clarified. Brian Kennedy, the millionaire who is a friend of the McCanns, has given another donation to the FindMadeleine Fund in order to pay Metodo 3, Mitchell added further.

British press razes Portuguese police

In Great Britain, yesterday's newspapers razed the Portuguese authorities when they heard that the Maddie process could be archived by the Public Ministry. In the 'Daily Mail', columnist Allison Pearson wrote, with a front cover appearance: "If the Portuguese police had a shred of decency they would now make a public apology to Kate and Gerry". Tabloid 'The Sun' put the issue on their front cover: "The police quit searching for Maddie and we say… now clear the McCanns". The 'Daily Mirror' placed the title on page 7, citing Clarence Mitchell about the archiving of the case: "We believe that it is true… No accusation will be brought against Kate and Gerry".

In Queen Elizabeth II’s land, the PJ’s image lies in the mud.

Irishman may still be questioned

The Portuguese authorities failed to request Eurojust (which establishes the connection between the European public ministries) or the British authorities to hear the Irishman who said he saw Gerry McCann carrying a child at around the time when Madeleine allegedly disappeared, on the 3rd of May 2007, from an apartment in Praia da Luz, near Lagos, Algarve. A senior official at the Public Ministry confirmed, as 24horas reported yesterday, that the request was never formalised with the Irish authorities: "Just one rogatory letter was sent to England and over fifty persons were questioned".

But according to the same source, given the fact that the new depositions yielded nothing relevant for the investigation that had already been developed, the judicial decision about the case is still pending.

"The process is being analysed. These are thousands of pages that must be read. Naturally, if at the end of said evaluation the questioning of the Irish citizen is considered relevant for the discovery of the truth, the corresponding hearing will be requested", the official from the Public Ministry said.


PJ admits [possibility] of accusing Kate and Gerry of abandonment, 03 July 2008

PJ admits [possibility] of accusing Kate and Gerry of abandonment Destak

Madeleine case – Final report allows for an accusation that may lead to a prison sentence between two and five years

03 July 2008
Thanks to 'astro' for translation

If the death was proved, the McCanns could be subject to a sentence up to 10 years, according to the penal frame for the crime of abandonment.

Exactly one month ago, the main individuals connected to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann met in an office at the Public Ministry in Portimão. Paulo Rebelo, the coordinator in charge of the case, Guilhermino da Encarnação, the joint national director from Faro, and Tavares de Almeida, the inspector in charge of the process, participated in the meeting.

According to what 'Sábado' was able to establish, the General Prosecutor from Évora, his joint prosecutor, the prosecutor from Portimão, and Stuart Prior, the head of Leicestershire Police, were also present. The meeting's sole objective was to define the strategy that may culminate in a formal accusation against Gerry and Kate McCann over exposure and abandonment.

PJ tries to prove couple's behaviour

The PJ's final report, which is over 100 pages long, was concluded over the last few days, and according to a police source that was contacted by 'Sábado', is "purely factual, objective, non-directional and without suggestions". In other words, a summary of facts that won't allow for the Public Ministry to go any further beyond "exposure and abandonment". A crime with a penal frame which, aggravated by the action from a parent or tutor, varies between two and five years of prison.

The strategy will pass through proving that the behaviour of the child's parents (that was left alone with her younger siblings while her parents dined with friends in a restaurant on the opposite side of the swimming pool) propitiated her disappearance – independently of the occurrence of other crimes, like kidnapping or homicide, for which the PJ failed to obtain evidence that could be sustained in court.

If they had appeared, even not implicating the parents directly, the penal frame for the same crime would be of eight years in prison, in the case of physical harm, or 10 years, if death were proved.

The McCanns' Portuguese lawyer, Rogério Alves, guaranteed that he will wait with serenity for the contents of the report. "The couple's problem was that they lost their daughter and spent months hearing that they were involved", the lawyer said, little surprised about the suspicion of exposure and abandonment. "After all that we saw, it would be strange if it weren't that way."

Cláudia said...

Atardi, I woould have no idea about what you were saying but the universal language of numbers made it clear! :-)

Thank you very much! :-)

Cláudia said...

Guys, tomorrow Gonçalo Amaral will be live interviewd in one of our TV stations, TVI, during the 8 o'clock news programme. It may be interesting... Although I know the real bomb will only go off after the secrecy is lifted, like it should.

atardi said...

Cláudia,

It's like: "Feliz Cumpleaños.

Cláudia said...

Atardi, that is a lot more familiar to me! :-) But the 29 gave it away! :-)

Thank you! :-)

Joe said...

It will be great to hear the full story and not the one sided spin of the clan and the pink clown. I will bet that they are afraid of the .... hitting the fans on full blast.

Cláudia said...

Joe, the full story is still a while away. But it will come. It is coming.

atardi said...

Mister G. Amaral,

Don't know if you read this site. But most posters (including me) were flabbergasted after reading that the case would be dropped.

But when I read the news that from now on you are free to speak about what happened to Madeleine I felt relief.

Because after what I have been reading about this case, it,s all about the parents. And nothing about the little girl.

It's not about the public opinion anymore, it's about rich people, defending a couple that left their children night after night alone to have fun with their friends.

As a human being I'm so ashamed that some people want the McCanns to be cleared. They left their children alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no but. I just hope you will publish your book. So we can make up our own minds.

Joe said...

Claudia,

I am glad to hear it, their halos must be wobbling. Also maybe it will shut them up as Mr Amaral knows what happened IMO.

Cláudia said...

Atardi, it will be published. And it won't take long. Just wait for the secrecy to be lifted. Because it's ready.

Joe, I don't think it will shut them up at all. I think the record of Madeleine sightings will be broken and half of the world will feel dizzy from all the spin, spin, spin. :-)

ratonthebeam said...

Desejos felizes para seu aniversário, Claudia!

Cláudia said...

Olá, Rat!
Muito obrigada! :-)
Rat, tem uma alma bonita!
Um abraço!

viv said...

Hiya all

Claudia - I am glad you had a great party with your friends!

From everything we are hearing I remain convinced that Rebelo and Prior are quite determined to see this couple in court because they know exactly what they did. If they cannot build a watertight case for homicide then clearly they will go with plan b..abandonment and let us make no mistake, leaving your tiny children every single night and not even bothering to make regular checks, as the Paynes confirmed is abandonment and very serious child abuse.

In the meantime Clarence continues to work overtime with his media plants, lamely trying to suggest, yet again, this case is just going to get shelved, or even they will be declared innocent. This is pure rubbish and simply will never happen.

I have always thought that Gerry got Jane Tanner to give the false abductor description, not just to cover for her own partner, but because he realised he had been seen. I have often pointed out that Jane described him, his height, his build, his age, his clothing. She did this for a reason, they had to try and make people believe that person was not Gerry McCann but an abductor, this is a wicked lie and the police know that for certain. This matter would not be considered by all these senior detectives from both countries and prosecutors if there was no evidence against Kate and Gerry McCann, that is an absurd suggestion. From the very outset their story was no better than pathetic. The shutters were damaged, someone jemmied the window, oh er well no we left the door open, what utter rubbish! If you were going to seriously neglect your children every night like that, would you even leave the door open so that a child nearly four could get up and walk out! Well only if you drugged her and were certain she could not do that. But the evidence confirms she was crying for over an hour the previous night, I do not believe the door was open. Any intelligent child that age would have gone and looked for her parents. I just do not believe they left the door open at all and they most definitely did not make regular checks, that is why the stories among the group just do not tally, particularly when compared with the Paynes, who are telling the truth. IMO Diane Webster always has done. She was disgusted at the time, refusing to even get up from the table and join the charade, and I am sure she still is. She is a different generation and I believe would heartily disapprove their neglect. IN UK it seems to be a modern epidemic where selfish parents feel children are an imposition on their freedom. Only today I was extremely upset when eating in a cafe, a little boy was crying miserably he was about 3-4, mom dragged him out by the arm, stopping half way and banging him across the bum, calling him the most vile names. The McCanns are the figureheads of such rotten people who should be prevented from having children.

docmac said...

Joe

"In Queen Elizabeth II’s land, the PJ’s image lies in the mud."
Shame on those like Allison Pearson who encouraged this sort of opinion. I think her angst-filled writing reveals a lot about her own pretty miserable experiences. There are those who have clung to her words for pretty much the same reason I would imagine.

Claudia

The .... thing that Joe is reluctant to mention is coming for sure. I can't wait for the press to be given a free rein on this lot. I believe - no, I KNOW, that they have a whole lot of interesting facts to reveal :-)

docmac said...

Oh, I forgot...

G'night, sleep tight.

Cláudia said...

Viv, Gonçalo has a lot to say about a certain witness who apparently never came to Portugal but who he was trying to get here when he was conveniently taken off the case. There are things he still can't say because of the secrecy. And he said that clearly when asked certain questions. But the secrecy is almost over. The McCanns always said they wanted the secrecy to ve over. Well, people should be careful with what they wiah because it may come true. :-)
Some of our media today reported that the charges of abandonment are being considered.
P.S: That story about the little boy is disgusting. That mother should be the one to be spanked. Responsible parenting some call it.

Cláudia said...

Doc, most people are not familiarised with our law and that is natural. In fact, I don't even have a legal background so I am no expert at all although I'm obviously aware of the basics. When the secrecy is over and the files become public, everyone who wishes will have access to its contents. Each and every inconsistency in their questioning will become public. Times, places, questions which were answered, questions which weren't, the type of answers, witnesses testemonies, everything. If, let's say, a MW employee stated that x did not leave the table at all and the x said he/she left the table every 20 minutes, the world will know. Although there was no real reconstruction, we will be all able to play that reconstruction in our heads, assuming we will be able to organise all the apparently different versions. Fun or what? :-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, sleep tight!
xxxx

mandarinn said...

Good evening!Claudia, Parabens e felicidades.Que contes muitos.
I see you are good people, a "crable" like myself :)))))
bjs

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

I do not pretend to understand the political reasons in Portugal for preventing a vital witness being interviewed and taking Goncalo off the case, but I am hoping he will soon tell us.

Whatever politics were going on, however, I do not believe this is the situation now. The public are just too well informed to accept anything other than the McCanns being prosecuted. I would be content if they are prosecuted for abandonment but only if there is a legal basis for this, ie the McCanns did such a good job of covering their tracks a prosecution for homicide and disposal of the body would be shaky. However, I remain unconvinced about that and still believe that there may be further delay whilst investigations continue so that they can bring the whole of this case to court and all the charges that will ensue from that.

One thing I am absolutely certain about, we are never going to hear from Portugal or UK "the McCanns are innocent" because on their own admission they are not, they are truly wicked. Madeleine told them her and Sean were crying and they went out and left them again and that is just what they admit to, what they actually did is even worse, but that merits a custodial sentence to emphasise that causing severe emotional damage is every bit as bad as physical neglect, often it is far worse. It is like that little boy today, what will do him the most harm, the smack or constantly being told how vile he is. That will affect his personality and self-esteem as a adult, he will be an unhappy one. The combination of both forms of abuse is absolutely devastating for children who naturally look to their parents for love and cuddles not abuse and violence.

The McCanns need to be made an example of, most particularly because of the attempts they have made to suggest they did nothing wrong.

Viv x

docmac said...

Claudia I know exactly who you mean by the witness who never arrived :-)

When you say x you do mean t, u, v, w, x, y and z right?

docmac said...

OK time to sleep, really.

docmac said...

Truly

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