7 Jul 2008

FIGHTING FUND FAMILY LAWYERS WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH THE CRIMINAL INVESTGATION - JOHN MCCAN 14.5.07!

Hi All

Today, of course it has been announced that the McCanns have withdrawn their High Court application for force Leicester Police to dislose details of their investigation in a settlement deal that sees Leicester Police hand over just 80 pieces of information from a massive 11,000! It has emerged the information the police are prepared to release relates to call received in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine disappearing. This clearly suggests to me that the police are never going to release details of what the police are actually investigating, the McCanns simulating Madeleine's abduction, which, as we can see from the article below swung into action as early as 14 May.

Note very carefully the words John McCann used there, "they are family lawyers they are not going to interfere in the criminal investigation". Well that is odd, because we can see that those plans that were put in place to interfere in the criminal investigation, within literally days of Madeleine going missing, have just been put into action, by those family lawyers who he assured us would not interfere.

Note also John McCann refers to this Fund as a "fighting" fund, not the title that was subsequently adopted to make their intentions less clear, the Find Madeleine Fund. This fighting fund was flying lawyers out to help the hapless McCanns within days. The British Police were also there and the McCanns were in no doubt, the Police were not happy with their incoherent and ever changing explanations. The McCanns got the public to pay for lawyers to defend them and at the same time were conducting a massive lobbying campaign of famous figures to bankroll them, most of whom, have now completely disassociated themselves with this couple who are accused of killing Madeleine, disposing of her body and simulating her abduction. Hardly surprising Beckham, Rowling, Branson etc do not want to be involved any more.

The McCanns have always let it be known that what they actually dread is the investigation been archived or shelved with them still being named as the prime suspects. As they have pointed out this could mean they have this around their necks for the rest of their lives. Now, for a couple who want the world to accept they are completely innocent, and, as we know, want to do films, books, chatshows with the Americans telling us this, for absolutely massive fees, this just would not do, would it?

At this point it is helpful to think about one of these £700 per hour London lawyers the McCanns hired and what he actually specialises in:


Angus McBridge, Partner Kingsley Napley instructed by Kate and Gerry McCann, from their webpage:

http://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/about/people

He specialises in all aspects of criminal defence including fraud and defends individuals in regulatory investigations…experienced in advising members of government agencies in sensitive enquiries.

Extensive experience in advising individuals under investigation and is regularly involved in representing individuals both during the early stages of investigation, and then, if matters proceed, at the police station and to trial. Advice is often given at a stage where efforts are being made to avoid police involvement with a view to avoiding charges and resultant reputation damage.

Extensive experience in high profile matters requiring press and reputational management (many cannot be listed for reasons of confidentiality). Assists in the provision of general and PR services in conjunction with other teams and external agencies.

Experienced in preparation in serious crime and large document based fraud trials.

Lectures on criminal law including search and seizure and police powers.

What is said about Angus

"He will not leave any stone unturned and will then worry he may have missed a stone; Media Savvy" (London Evening Standard, 28 September 2007!!)

"Angus has particular expertise in dealing with the media and reputation management to high profile individuals" (Chambers: A Client Guide to the Legal Profession 2008)

The document then goes on to list high profile cases he has been involved in, including individuals being investigated by Lord Stevens for conspiracy to murder in Northern Ireland, footballers accused of rape and affray and complex fraud cases.

I believe that Mr McBride has been very busy on behalf of the McCanns. The action against Express Newspapers did not have the desired result of improving the McCanns reputation and so here we have another piece of legal work with the exact same intention. Whilst the McCanns continue to be investigated it is very important for their financial future which they have dreamed about to be considered innocent of any crime involving their daughter Madeleine. Well I for one can see all the expensive legal work that is going to pursue that aim but am just not impressed with all this "media management". In fact it makes me sick!

Viv x

Legal team assist McCann family
Updated 08.40 Mon May 14 2007
Keywords: Portugal, Madeleine McCann
A legal team has flown out to assist Madeleine McCann's family in Praia da Luz.
Her uncle John McCann, who lives in Glasgow, said the lawyers would play a liaison role and would not interfere with the criminal investigation.
John McCann said the lawyers would play a liaison role and would not interfere with the criminal investigation
They are also providing Madeleine's parents with advice on setting up a special "fighting fund" to continue the search for the youngster using donations from the public.
Mr McCann said: "Lawyers are already there I believe. The idea of having the legal guys there is to do some of the liaison between the family and the police, to do some of the press stuff, and to administer this fighting fund and so on.
"They are not going to interfere with the criminal investigation - they are family lawyers."

88 comments:

viv said...

In McCann v Express Newspapers as part of the settlement deal the Judge read out in open court a statement exhonerating the McCanns of any involvement in their daughter, Madeleine's disappearance.

In McCann v Leicester Police as part of the settlement deal the Judge read out in open court a statgement exhonerating the McCanns of any involvement in their daughter, Madeleine's disappearance.

How many more times are the McCanns going to commence legal action where the only intention is to settle it on agreed terms that involve getting a High Court Judge to read out their sickening propaganda? True of course there were other motivations that suit the McCanns very well, getting a large stash of cash and finding out details of the police investigation about them. But Mr McBride must have advised them there was no way that Leicester Police were going to give them anything at all, pertinent to the ongoing investigation against them that they not only killed Madeleine and disposed of her body, but also, simulated her abduction in a bid to cover that crime and make a huge amount of money in the process.

Whilst Mr McBride may be earning a huge amount of money, I would not want his "job".

Viv x

Stella said...

Good post Viv, spot on...

viv said...

Hello Stella

Where have you been! I have missed you and I know others have too, get yourself back on this board, now! Things are seriously hotting up and we need your input!

Great to hear from you again and I hope you are OK. You can email me of course if you want to speak privately.

Luv Viv x

Stella said...

Viv, hi

I have been looking in on a regular basis, but usually it seems when no one else is around or there is a more personal conversation going on that would be rude of me to interrupt.

Have no fear, Stella will be here when the news breaks...

Joe said...

This is part of the order given by Hogg.....

Mr Scott said the information to be released by the police related to telephone calls made to the McCanns' solicitors and passed on to Leicestershire Constabulary's incident room during the early stages of the inquiry.

The chief constable has now agreed to provide contact details and a summary of the information provided by those early callers.

The McCanns' search for their daughter continued in accordance with the title of the fund they set up to help them in their task, Madeleine's Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned.

James Lewis QC, for the police, said Chief Constable Matt Baggott shared that aim, but felt it was vital to balance the understandable desire of the McCanns to have as much information as possible against the risks of compromising the continuing criminal investigation, damaging future international co-operation and breaching Portuguese law.

The material to be disclosed consisted of 81 pieces of information out of more than 11,000, said Mr Lewis.

Approving the settlement of the case, the judge amended her original wide disclosure order to state that it did not apply to Leicestershire Police or any other UK law enforcement agency.

.................................... "order to state that it did not apply to Leicestershire Police or any other UK law enforcement agency". NOW WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN ? Is it what the PJ have provided or what. It appears that the order did not apply to LP or or other UK law enforcement agency , so who does it appy to? Effectively means they did not get any disclosure only what the LP are prepared to give voluntarily.

mandarinn said...

Good evening all!
All of this seems to me very confusing, but i got a feeling that it is another piece to make the mccans look great parents :
(((((((
Actually i already expected this...

Zodiac said...

Hi all,

I vaguely remember CM being quoted in the Press and read on the Fora that he had said on TV that the case (7/7/08) was likely to be postponed due to the speculated (I emphasis,SPECULATED) news (imo, Spin) from PT that the case was being dropped, shelved, archived, the McCs cleared or whatever other propaganda spin terminology he wishes to use. IMO, there is a difference between postponed and as we discover today DROPPED. As for 80 out of 11,000, well what can I say.

BBFN.

mandarinn said...

VIV
How can the judge Hoq, exhonerate MacCans from any envolment in their daughter desaperance???She don't know the process, that is in justice secrecy yet???

hope4truth said...

Hi ALL

I would like to know why the McCann's were exhonerated from any involvment??? They are the key to all of this if she really was taken then she would have not been if they had been with her where they should be instead of out with their friends.

If there is a scent of death in 5A how many people have died there?

If Kate was with 6 dead bodies before she went away who were they? and more to the point why take a childs comfort toy to visit a corpse?

Why is this all about poor Kate and Gerry they seem happy to belive their daughter may be in the hands of a Peadophile ring thanks in a big part to them for leaving their children alone in an unlocked room.

Yes maybe one day the person or people who know what happend will come forward but I am not holding my breath for it to be a stranger as if anyone had any information 2 million pounds is a good reason to come forward.... Guilt will get to one of them in the end and the truth may emerge to little to late for a neglected child...

3 years old and not important enough for her parents to stay with her to keep her safe.

Wizard said...

Good Evening All,

I still find this all very confusing. If the 81 pieces of evidence released to the McCanns today are the same 81 pieces of evidence passed to the Leicestershire police originally by the McCanns’ solicitors why did their solicitors not keep a copy before passing the info over to the police? Did they do this but lost it? As the Mcs had this information originally why didn’t M3 follow up any leads before now?

It seems to me the McCanns have just got back what they originally had – nothing new. This settlement by the McCanns appears to have been caused by the late involvement by the Serious Crime Squad who paired up with Leicestershire police to prevent them seeing the files if the Mcs had pursued this matter it would have taken months of litigation and even then they may have come away empty handed.

As far as I can see the 81 pieces of information are not worth anything but Justice Hogg’s statement in court would be worth the expense of the legal action. Great PR for them.

Cláudia said...

"I still find this all very confusing. If the 81 pieces of evidence released to the McCanns today are the same 81 pieces of evidence passed to the Leicestershire police originally by the McCanns’ solicitors why did their solicitors not keep a copy before passing the info over to the police? Did they do this but lost it? As the Mcs had this information originally why didn’t M3 follow up any leads before now?"

Another farce to make them look like they won something when in fact they would only win anything if Madeleine is found safe and sound? And although I think that is impossible because I believe Madeleine is dead, if a miracle happened, than I would be very happy to see them win. But of course, I don't believe in miracles.

viv said...

Guys

This is all looking very much like I said it looked. Leicester Police are continuing to investigate the McCanns and Mrs Justice Hogg was making very plain that they are not required to disclose any information whatsoever concerning that investigation to the McCanns, other than, it would seem, what they already had and before their attempts to pervert the course of justice had swung into action. It is the simulation of an abduction that is going to really sink Kate and Gerry McCann! If they did not kill her then why else would they do that, if you were on a jury in UK, where they will be tried, what would you say??

You can bet that what the Portuguese Police ultimately disclose will in no way compromise the continuing investigation of these two by the Police Force who should be investigating them and putting them on trial, and, I might add, shouldering the expense, British Police and British taxpayers must pick up the tab for these two! And it will be a massive tab! Not forgetting of course the massive expense to Portugal for having the misfortune to have these two decide to holiday in their country. I have wondered in the past whether they may get a grant from the EU in relation to the costs involved which are clearly massive and have tied their Senior PJ Officers up for over a year, and who have also repeatedly had their time wasted by the manipulative behaviour of Kate and Gerry McCann in their desperate attempts to thrown them a lorry load of red herrings.

Viv x

viv said...

Mrs Justice Hogg has not personally exhonerated the McCanns. When entering into a settlement deal any terms can be agreed. It is usual for the person who feels aggrieved to prepare a statement that gets read out in open court as part of that settlement deal. Generally judges will never interfere in agreed terms of settlement between the parties. What the McCanns lawyers have done on both occasions is prepare some media propaganda for the Judge to read out to try and persuade people the McCanns are innocent. As I explained previously this is very important to the McCanns and the lucrative deals they want to cash in on. The Americans have made plain that whilst they are still accused of killing Madeleine they do not want to know. Other publishers have made plain the story must have an ending. If it is going to take Leicester Police a long time to continue to investigate them, then in the meantime the McCanns want the word to go out they are innocent so that Kate can walk into a supermarket again and so they can start cashing in like they have always wanted to.

In short Mrs Justice Hogg is not exhonerating them at all, she is just performing her judicial function in reading out in open court a statement prepared by the McCanns lawyers as part of the settlement deal, in exactly the same way they did in the libel case. This is about PR and propaganda for the McCanns. What Mrs Justice Hogg has said off her own bat is the police are not going to be ordered to disclose anything at all, she is obviously satisfied this would damage the ongoing investigation of the McCanns and I knew she would not wish to interfere in this.


She is a Family Judge and would not allow any principles of family law to interfere in or damage a criminal investigation which would always take precedence over any other considerations. In law, nothing is more important than a criminal case.

Viv x

viv said...

An interesting earlier ruling from Mrs Justice Hogg demonstrating what a compassionate and sensible Judge she is, making Jade and Hannah Wards to protect their future interests in the proceedings but not snatching them away from the run away foster parents who had nurtured them and kept them safe from harm, and demonstrated their overwhelming love for the children..very commendable conduct!:

Monday, January 18, 1999 Published at 18:30 GMT


UK

Justice Hogg's ruling in full



Mrs Justice Hogg, sitting in the High Court in London, has ruled that it was in the interests of sisters Jade and Hannah Bennett for them to remain with runaway foster couple Jeff and Jenny Bramley for the immediate future.


Mrs Justice Hogg
This is the full text of her statement:

"I was extremely relieved to hear that Jade and Hannah Bennett have been found safe and well.

I have made Jade and Hannah wards of court.

Their future will now be decided by the High Court and the official solicitor has agreed to act for Jade and Hannah in those proceedings.

I have invited members of the press and the media to come to court today for two reasons.

Firstly, I would like to pay tribute to all those who have been involved in the search for the children since they first disappeared on 14 September last year.

I mention in particular the officers of the Cambridgeshire Constabulary and those from other forces who have joined with them in their search.

I thank the members of the public who have responded to appeals for information which have appeared from time to time in the national newspapers and on television.

I am sure that the considerable news coverage of this case has contributed in no small measure to the children being recovered safe and well.

I particularly wish to express my thanks to the press and the media for their help in this matter.

Secondly, now that Jade and Hannah have been found, it is important that they and Mr and Mrs Bramley are given both the time and the freedom that they need to come to terms with what has happened and, in the case of Mr and Mrs Bramley, to plan for the future accordingly.

I have no desire to stifle public debate in any way. I wish to make that very clear.

What I am concerned and determined to do is to afford these children, whose future now lies in the hands of the court, as much privacy and protection as possible so that they can lead normal lives in the days and months ahead.

To that end, I have made an order which prohibits the reporting of further information which would constitute an unwarranted intrusion into that privacy.

I am entirely confident that my order will be respected in every way."

mandarinn said...

My jaw fell to the floor....i just read in Joana morais blog, the words the judge said about madeleine parents....(not textual, but to people from 3 arg, said it9..."Ihave no criticism of the parents who have behaved responsabily and reasonable....."
The words of a judge from a family court , i think...
Who think they have no proctetion on highest level?
By law it is right,responsible and reasonable, to leave 3 children alone to wine and dine.
If it is right to doctors, why it is not to single mothers or poor people???

viv said...

Having read this report in full I now understand the situation better and it alarms me even more. Immediately after Madeleine went missing the McCanns obtained an Order forcing the police to disclose all details of information concerning Madeleine's whereabouts and Mrs Justice Hogg granted that Order. Today she has overruled her own Order and now says the Police or other Agencies (I believe referring to Serious Organised Crime Agency and Social Services for example) do not have to disclose any further information at all to the McCanns. They clearly just had to back down and did not score a victory at all, they simply got details of what their own solicitors supplied to the police! What a humiliating climb down!

I think it needs to be made clear that Mrs Justice Hogg would be prohibited from personally expressing any view about guilt or innocence of the McCanns during an ongoing criminal investigation of them. She would be pre-judging a criminal case and that is just not done!! If anything she would err on the side of making sure she did not accuse them of anything at all because that would enable them to shout "unfair trial, breach of our human rights, Mrs Justice Hogg condemned us before we even got to the criminal court and this would clearly prejudice a jury against us" Mrs Justice Hogg would avoid such a complaint being made, like the plague!

Viv x

Madeleine McCann: Parents to get police evidenceComment | Read Comments (6)Police agreed today to hand over evidence about Madeleine McCann's disappearance to her parents.

As a result, Kate and Gerry McCann dropped their High Court bid to force disclosure of the information held by Leicestershire police.

The force has been involved in the search for Madeleine since shortly after she disappeared 14 months ago.

advertisement
The parents, who wanted to avoid a legal conflict with the police or other agencies while at the same time obtaining as much material as possible to help in their continuing search, were content to withdraw their case.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell, speaking on the steps of the High Court in London, welcomed the move.

Glasgow-born Mr McCann and his wife were not present at the hearing in London. Mrs Justice Hogg said she had not asked for their attendance because "they have suffered enough and I wished to ease their burden".

The judge urged anyone with information about the missing girl to come forward.

"There is, of course, one person who knows what has happened to Madeleine and where she may be found," the judge said.

"I ponder about that person - whether that person has a heart and might understand what it must be like for Madeleine to have been taken and secreted from her parents and siblings and those she loved and felt secure with.

"I ponder whether that person has a conscience or any feeling of guilt or remorse or even cares about the hurt that has been caused to an innocent little girl, and whether that person has a faith or belief and what explanation or justification they might give to God.

"I entreat that person, whoever they may be, to show mercy and compassion and come forward now and tell us where Madeleine is to be found.

"I hope she will be found soon, alive and well."

There is, of course, one person who knows what has happened to Madeleine and where she may be found
Mrs Justice Hogg

The court heard that the McCanns, both 40, from Rothley, Leicestershire, were on holiday with their twins, Sean and Amelie.

Their spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said outside court the couple would very much welcome the 80 pieces of information which the police had agreed to release.

"These are 80 potential new leads. We have information we can work on," he said.

The couple were also looking forward to much greater disclosure of information once their status as "arguidos" or formal suspects was, as expected, lifted by the Portuguese authorities.

Mr Mitchell said: "They will be strengthened and touched by what Mrs Justice Hogg said.

"It was immensely kind. In the context of the courtroom, it was a statement she did not have to make. It was extremely supportive and very generous and kind.

"I know Kate and Gerry will be incredibly touched."

Madeleine vanished from the family's holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz on May 3 last year shortly before her fourth birthday. No one has been arrested or charged in connection with her abduction.

The couple's counsel, Tim Scott QC, told the judge today there was no proof that Madeleine was alive, "but there is not a scrap of evidence that she is not".

He said the McCanns acknowledged the enormous effort devoted to the search by Leicestershire Police and other law enforcement agencies.

Shortly after their daughter disappeared, the judge, in the High Court Family division, granted them a wide order requiring anyone on whom it was served to disclose relevant information to their solicitors.

The police were among those served with the order and serious issues then arose about the public interest in maintaining confidentiality of police investigations.

The Serious Organised Crimes Agency and the Attorney General intervened to advance their own arguments on public policy.

Mr Scott said it became clear that areas of law of great interest to lawyers would have to be considered.

"Gerry and Kate McCann are not lawyers and so far as they were concerned the legal proceedings were moving further and further from the only matter which concerns them - the search for Madeleine.

"The proceedings were in danger of becoming a distraction from, rather than an aid to, that single goal," he said.

Mr Scott said the information to be released by the police related to telephone calls made to the McCanns' solicitors and passed on to Leicestershire Constabulary's incident room during the early stages of the inquiry.

The chief constable has now agreed to provide contact details and a summary of the information provided by those early callers.

The McCanns' search for their daughter continued in accordance with the title of the fund they set up to help them in their task, Madeleine's Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned.

James Lewis QC, for the police, said Chief Constable Matt Baggott shared that aim, but felt it was vital to balance the understandable desire of the McCanns to have as much information as possible against the risks of compromising the continuing criminal investigation, damaging future international co-operation and breaching Portuguese law.

The material to be disclosed consisted of 81 pieces of information out of more than 11,000, said Mr Lewis.

Approving the settlement of the case, the judge amended her original wide disclosure order to state that it did not apply to Leicestershire Police or any other UK law enforcement agency.

dylan said...

Hi folks.

Hope, you said:

Why is this all about poor Kate and Gerry they seem happy to belive their daughter may be in the hands of a Peadophile ring thanks in a big part to them for leaving their children alone in an unlocked room.


- exactly, & more likely not around either due to the fact that they pushed for her eye defect to be marketed to find her, despite being advised that any person holding her may well kill her because of this action. As I've always said, I cannot and will not understand why certain people prefer to think of Madeleine having gone through horrendous torture at the hands of paedophiles and then death as opposed to having accidently died, possibly mercifully quickly, when compared to the former scenario.

As for the propaganda surrounding the LP handing over the evidence today, it makes me sick & I'm fed up of their 'special treatment' as a result of their spin and social standing. It is not fair on parents who have been charged with less, from less well-off backgrounds and sends out the wrong message to those who might think they can now get away with, well, literally, homicide.

Joe said...

I do not accept that it was necessary for Hogg to exhonerate the McCanns, because that is what she did. If she was balanced then she would have made an equal statement for the Police case as well. A settlement was reached so Hogg did not really have to make a judgment or any statement,so her words were out of order and she was basing them on what evidence?Most uncharacteristic of a justice to make such a baseless statement without evidence. Begs the question Why the case was before her?

I am sorry to be negative but it remains to be seen if LP or the serious fraud Police are actually doing anything re this case. The reason I say this is if the PJ are winding down to shelve the case then what on earth can the UK Police have to go on, as the PJ have been effectively hamstrung?
All the above my opinion only.

mandarinn said...

Joe
I completly agree with you

Joe said...

Mandarinn,

Thank you.

Cláudia said...

I'm copy pasting below TWO examples of hundreds of posts that were, are and will be sent to several authorities and lawyers. All of them are on paper and also scanned. Just in case. This is a two way road.
P.S: There is no such think as anonimity, really. My regards to L, T, A, K, G, D, P et al.

----------------------------------------------


Mum21 said...
Libel in the First Degree!!

Viv said today on her latest thread:

"The McCanns got the public to pay for lawyers to defend them and at the same time were conducting a massive lobbying campaign of famous figures to bankroll them, most of whom, have now completely disassociated themselves with this couple who are accused of killing Madeleine, disposing of her body and simulating her abduction. Hardly surprising Beckham, Rowling, Branson etc do not want to be involved any more."

ST..just to let you know I am sending the above plus the rest of Viv's thread to the relevant authorities..including the McCann's Lawyers. Even Amaral has more sense than Viv...he adds the words "in my opinion" or "allegedly".
What Viv tends to forget over and over again is the McCann's have NOT BEEN CHARGED with anything.
............................................

Re: Joana Cipriano
by clairesy Today at 12:36 am

Seems these guys have a habbit of blaming parents for mysteriously successfully hiding their little ones....then they go on to write a book about it....a book about joana ...and a book about madeleine?????these books must be like twins...exactly the same apart from the names etc.All the rest seems pretty much the same....

1)little girl goes missing mysteriously

2)Mammy gets the fault

3)they were killed and hid in freezers

4)bodies disposed of but never ever found

5)exact same cops in on the hunt?

6) hours of interviews and bribes for kate(tell us you killed her on accident and we will guarantee a light sentence!!)Hmmmmmm

7)hours of interviews for joanas mammy accompanied by beatings to make her talk

8)Rumour of corruption by cops in both cases

9) and a nice little story book to end it all by the one and only PAULO PEREIRA CRISTOVAO

god they like something dragged from out of a kinder surprise egg aint they....full of sh#t

both these little girls are still lost out there somewhere...I believe they are both alive. I must admit there was a time when i though madeleine was dead and that she had maybe died not long after being taken...but if that was the case her body would have showed up by now. The person who took her wouldn't have had much time to hide her away..with the worlds media watching the only way someone could be so sure of keeping her hidden well without anyone seeing her was if the whole thing was ignored and covered up from the start.
The only people capable of that would be the ones in charge. And like it or not the people in charge of both madeleine and joana is the people who took them...they are the ones who calls the shots back then...... and i believe they are still calling the shots now...

No real sightings(hmmmm)...

no evidence(hmmmm)

no dna..(hmmmm)..

no trace of them(hmmmm)...

no leads(hmmm)...

Fridge freezer stunt again(hmmmmm)

Sounds like the perfect crime...BUT is there such a thing as the perfect crime?? I don't think so...not in this day and age with all the forensics and fantastic tech we have......not unless the one who took her is the one who is suppose to be collecting the evidence.

Would you incriminate yourself???(nahhhhhhhhhh)

Would you want the worlds best sniffer dogs to come and help out ??(nahhhhhhhh)

Does a criminal usually try to blame someone else??(yep)

and im not accusing the pj or Portugal's cops...im well aware there are some lovely men and women out there fighting for their country's laws...but just like we have seen here recently in the children's home etc...I think portugal as something going on out there.It was said the casa pia case rocked portugal...I think the Madeline mccann case will shake hell out of them.

I hope when this is sorted joanas mammy can also get some comfort back with her family and friends ...............not sit in that stinking cell they have her shut up in pondering on the whereabouts and wellbeing of her little girl.

Also..one thing bothering me about the fridge freezer malarkey...the sad cop who announced that these two children were hid in the freezer was gonc!!He claimed that joana was chopped up by her mammy(excuse me while i throw up)) so she fitted in the fridge freezer.But he didn't claim that madeleine was chopped up???And the only fridge freezer available to the mccanns was in the kitchen of their apartment.And we all know how small these fridge freezers are when your away..you can only get two items in them and the fridge only hold the most basic of items needed.

If she had been treated that way im sure they would have found a lot more that a poxy spec of so called blood..the place would have been riddled with her blood and death scent no matter how much they scrubbed.....they also claimed they found Madeleine's blood in between the wooden flooring in the lounge.But there is no wooden flooring ???

hmmmm no wonder they didn't want those sniffer dogs coming in in the early stages hey...Took them weeks and weeks before they allowed uk cops to go in with those dogs...and when they did....BINGO..up pops all the evidence that should have been staring them in the face......Hmmmm wonder how that got there???

and for a case that has got no leads... no evidence... no sightings... no nothing.. i find it amusing that some crocked cop can write a book about it all...fascinating isn't it. I wonder if a top psychologist has got a copy to analyse...I hope so.

---------------------------------------


Re: To Start Off
by clairesy Today at 1:05 am

God rosipops good thread.......

Thing is I think the blunders these guys have made could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on ..........PHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!

Its not only the madeleine case they have made major blunders on its many other cases.

I wonder if they know what they are doing though?????...I don't think they are as dull as we think they are you know. Like sneaky vipers they slither around a crime scene like its some sort of playground for their corruptness and silly games. The only ones left to pick up the pieces after they have finished is the families and children caught up in their mess.

Personally i think they are deliberately making a mess of these cases and not making mistakes as such.

mandarinn said...

Claudia
they dare to say all this because they feel McCans are protected IMO , as we can see today, even by those who has to help a fair investigation.
We can everyday see more claire with what pj had to cope...

mandarinn said...

I wonder what more they will try to do when everything will be in public domain. IMO they are preparing the no brain public to make the interpretation they want.
POOR LITTLE GIRL :(

Joe said...

viv said...

Having read this report in full I now understand the situation better and it alarms me even more. Immediately after Madeleine went missing the McCanns obtained an Order forcing the police to disclose all details of information concerning Madeleine's whereabouts and Mrs Justice Hogg granted that Order. Today she has overruled her own Order.

....................................

My questions are 1) why did Hogg give such an expansive order to the McCanns in the first pace against the Police???

2)If such an order has been in place for a year or so why did they have to go to court to get the info???

In reality it appears IMO to me that there really was no judicial secrecy for the McCann's, in PT maybe but not the UK as they were entitled to the info from the British police all along, via this Order given by Hogg. Have I got that right? Is this usual if so? No wonder the PJ are fed up with the whole case. Leaking like a sieve and it all done via a High Court Order. Incredible.

Joe said...

I just remembered the pink clown claiming some time ago that he regularly met with high ranking Police officers and they were convinced that the McCanns wee innocent. IMO this Order explains everything. They appear to have known every PJ move all along.

Cláudia said...

Mandarinn, this investigation dies the day Gonçalo Amaral was pushed. And I believe he was pushed exactly because of that. However, he will not shut up. I hope he has personal security.

bath theory said...

Hi

To me this is the very interesting and telling bit from Justice Hogg. Barristers and Judges operate at a different level with words and these words appear sandwhiched between the opening and ending of her statement.


... 'There is, of course, at least one person who knows what has happened to Madeleine, and where she may be found.

I ponder about that person: whether that person has a heart and can understand what it must be like for Madeleine to have been torn and secreted from her parents and siblings whom she loves and felt secure with, and whom she no doubt misses and grieves for.

Whether that person has a conscience or any feeling of guilt, remorse or even cares about the hurt which has been caused to an innocent little girl: whether that person has a faith and belief, and what explanation or justification that person will give to God...'

To me I read this as a very clever way of putting pressure on the people we think were involved in her disappearance.

KEEP THE FAITH

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Is my memory correct that when Mr Amaral was sacked from the case, the reason given was that he had criticised the LP for giving information to the McCanns?

mandarinn said...

BT
Very dificult keep the faith in justice or JUSTICE ?!

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, YES!

bath theory said...

Just seen your words Viv from before an dcouldn't agree more.

'...In short Mrs Justice Hogg is not exhonerating them at all, she is just performing her judicial function in reading out in open court a statement prepared by the McCanns lawyers as part of the settlement deal, in exactly the same way they did in the libel case. This is about PR and propaganda for the McCanns. What Mrs Justice Hogg has said off her own bat is the police are not going to be ordered to disclose anything at all, she is obviously satisfied this would damage the ongoing investigation of the McCanns and I knew she would not wish to interfere in this...'

ICantThinkOfAName said...

BT

Isn't there a saying about stable doors.

mandarinn said...

Many times i wonder from where come all the protection those nobody doctors come. What and Who is behind all of it to deserve that massive protection , not allowingproperly investigate the desapearence of a small child

Joe said...

ICTOAN/Claudia,

They bypassed PT secrecy laws and applied UK laws to get the case details all done Via the High Court it appears, no wonder mitchell was acting the policeman in Jan 2008.

Cláudia said...

Mandarinn, the answer to your question is the reason why GA was pushed.

Cláudia said...

Joe, very interesting times are coming. Times of spin, of 'witnesses', of 'sightings', etc.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Joe

And this all happened long before they were made aguidos.

bath theory said...

Mandarin

In my opinion the only way these two would be protected in order to stop them from being charged with something one day ie negligence or worse is if a massively high ranking politician was the 10th Tapas person and I don't believe that to be the case.

I am very optimistic that justice will prevail but it may take a lot longer and will be made easier if Brown and his group are ousted by the rest of the labour party. I don't believe these two are being that protected now. I believe it is just the contacts of whom people know and the money behind them now that have allowed them to stay out of serious trouble to date.

I am still very positive and we must let time work its course. Yes, the McCann's have not been charged with anything yet but do I believe they will be ...

You bet I do.

bath theory said...

The horses may have bolted but I believe the hooves are leaving a trail.

bath theory said...

WE SHALL OVERCOME,

:)

mandarinn said...

BT
Hope you are right.
When the police files come to public domain , IMO it will be much more dificult to stop investigations.
I agree with you, maybe the famous tapas 10 is the one they are protecting... but why???what kind of thing was that person doing to deserve such a secret, envolving a child's life

atardi said...

ICTO/Cláudia,

Have been reading the whole day.

Just logged in because of your last posts.

ICTOAN said:
Is my memory correct that when Mr Amaral was sacked from the case, the reason given was that he had criticised the LP for giving information to the McCanns?

Cláudia said,

ICTOAN, YES!

------------------------

If this is correct than The McCanns will have Justice instead of Madeleine.

-------------------------

ICantThinkOfAName said...

On 3A's Ironside said this of Justice Hogg:

No but she is a friend of the Meyers who are friends with the Mccann con artists......

mandarinn said...

ATARDI
they had Justice Hogg :)))

mandarinn said...

What a shame to justice...

atardi said...

BT (and Mandarrin),

BT, I have been thinking the same.

IMO it's not the McCanns that are being protected but somebody else.

mandarinn said...

By the way, i miss Iron sid and his dog detective "we solve all cases", remenber?

mandarinn said...

Ironside*

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Mandarinn

Ironside is a regular poster on 3As.

mandarinn said...

ICTOAN
i know, but the 3 args is very confusing to me. I remenber him from dx. He was one of the most interesting posters

Cláudia said...

Atardi, yes. But of GA hadn't been pushed he wouldn't be able to say what he wished to say, right? So...

Cláudia said...

*if

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Is there any reaction so far in Portugal to today's events?

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, it made the news and it was on TV. But as far as I know it was not opening news. I've seen it in RTPN and it was very quick with no comments. Just some Mr Pink footage.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, I was made aware of some reactions of some relevant characters but unfortunately I cannot share them or I would be betraying people's confidence. And I never break a promise.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I wondered if anyone had picked up that Mr Amaral had bee right about the 'official' leaks to the McCanns.

atardi said...

As a result, Kate and Gerry McCann dropped their High Court bid to force disclosure of the information held by Leicestershire police.

The force has been involved in the search for Madeleine since shortly after she disappeared 14 months ago.

The parents, who wanted to avoid a legal conflict with the police or other agencies while at the same time obtaining as much material as possible to help in their continuing search, were content to withdraw their case.


------------------------------


Viv and Cláudia,

I am posting a part of Viv's post at 20.10 and Cláudia's comment on the last thread.

------------------------------


Cláudia said...
There are more than 11 000 pieces of info, right? The British Police agree to hand them pathetic 81 leads which they are already aware of, most likely. And they drop the court case? Why? What about the rest of the info? Don't they want to leave no stone unturned? Come on McCanns. Go to court and fight. Fight for your daughter. You believe she's alive and unharmed, right? So do it. She is waiting for you to fight, win and go and rescue her. Or don't you believe that?
Monday, 7 July 2008 14:14:00 o'clock BST

----------------------------

She is waiting for you to fight

-----------------------------

I would add to that sentence: "She is waiting for you to fight for HER.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, yeah.

Cláudia said...

Atardi, if they believed their own words, they would do it.

atardi said...

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, I was made aware of some reactions of some relevant characters but unfortunately I cannot share them or I would be betraying people's confidence. And I never break a promise.

Monday, 7 July 2008 22:58:00 o'clock BST

-------------------------------

Cláudia,

These reactions you can't talk about. I hope it doesn't have anything to do with people posting here.

Cláudia said...

Atardi, no. Of course not. Reactions from people in Portugal who are, one way or anoter, relevant to all this.

atardi said...

Cláudia,

Thanks.

----------------------------

Whatever will happen I as a mother couldn't live with the fact that the scent of death was found on my clothes. I would fight to prove my innocence.

That's why I copied and pasted your post because to me despite of all "news" we had today it was the best one.

Cláudia said...

Atardi, thank you!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia / Atardi

I'm glad you are still friends and I apologise if my posting was the start point for a misunderstanding.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, what do you mean? :-) I must be very distracted today. I haven't slept much last night because I had an early start today.

Cláudia said...

Hey, I'm serious. What misunderstanding? Have I missed something?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Maybe it's late for me as well.

It looked to me that Atardi and you were not singing from the same hymn sheet from the exchange between you.

Looks like I owe another apology.

Cláudia said...

Well, I can't speak for Atardi, of course. But no, I totally agreed with Atardi, especially regarding Mr Amaral. ICTOAN, no need to apologise. It's easy to misunderstand people when they're not face to face. :-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

That is very gracious of you.

We Cancerians must stick together.

atardi said...

ICTOAN/Cláudia,


Did I miss something?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Atardi

See my 23.35 posting.

Cláudia said...

Atardi, no, you did not miss anything important! :-)

ICTOAN, :-) I didn't know you were also a Cancerian! :-)

atardi said...

ICTOAN/Cláudia,

I was searching for Dutch news about today/yesterday and cheking my e-mails.

Thank God Cláudia and you are posting here. Because otherwise I couldn'tunderststand this whole case at all.

ICTOAN,

I think it has to do with the way I write things. I don't speak English on a daily basis.

Cláudia said...

Atardi, your English is fine! :-)
Sometimes I also don't understand it, Atardi. But then I always get someone to help me understand a bit better. :-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Atardi

There is nothing wrong with your English it's better than many of the natives.

The problem was me making assumptions that were incorrect. As Claudia said:

It's easy to misunderstand people when they're not face to face.

atardi said...

ICTOAN,

Are you crazy? You don't have to apologize.

I'm so glad that you take the time to ask questions about Madeleine.

And not only you all posters on this site.

I hope there will be a time that Madeleine and not only her parents will get attention.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

My Birthday was yesterday. And before you ask, the number in bingo caller's slang is clickety-click.

atardi said...

Cláudia,

If someone is common with English this person will react instantly. But as you have noticed I have to work hard to publish my comments here.

viv said...

Hiya Joe

Re your earlier post I think 21.40 ish, It would have been reasonable to grant the order in the early stages when it was assumed the McCanns were telling the truth and Madeleine had been abducted. But UK Police were refusing to comply with this Order and hand over the information as required in the Order, hence the McCanns application to force them to do so which was a dramatic failure. No High Court Judge is going to stand in the way of a very serious criminal investigation or make orders that could damage that, it would cost her, her job!

In the face of the Police opposing the McCanns application and winning I cannot understand why people still seem to think there is some sort of beneficial influence on behalf of the McCanns, that is not the way it looks to me. They are desperate to know just how bad things are and they are not being told!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, here are my congratulations although I'm more than 24 hours late.

Atardi, your English is fine and sounds natural.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

You you are only about 22 minutes late.

Cláudia said...

Oh, you really meant yesterday!
:-)))))
I hope you had fun and were surrounded by the people you love and who lovr you. That's what matters, really. I wish you a great year.

Guys, I think I'm going to bed. Incredibly tired today. And very. very sleepy.
Boa noite all.
xxxxxx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Viv

Could it be that the LP were not "feeding" the McCanns because having realised what the situation was, the PJ were no longer supplying the LP with relevant information?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

If there is anyonone out there still reading, you will be pleased to know this is my last post before I find my bed.

Good night!

atardi said...

Will read all posters tomorrow who really want JFM.

atardi said...

ICTOAN,

Sleep tight.

Hope to read you again.

mandarinn said...

ICTOOAN, CLAUDI
I'm a cancerian too, hi good people :)))) (us)

viv said...

Kate is making desperate telephone calls...

Comment | Read Comments (24)

A HAMPSHIRE man involved in the case of missing Madeline McCann has been contacted by the child's mum in a plea for information.

It was reported today that Kate McCann phoned key-witness Paul Gordon, 32, from Fareham to ask him to give evidence to private investigators continuing the search for the missing girl.

Mr Gordon told Portuguese police that he had seen a 'creepy' man who asked him for cash when he was staying in Praia da Luz last year.

The man approached him when he was renting the flat where a week later Madeline, then aged three, was snatched.

Mr Gordon has reportedly told Mrs McCann that he would not divulge any more information after speaking to the authorities, and Portuguese police refuse to issue an e-fit of the man he described over fears it could prejudice any future court hearings.

Kate and Gerry McCann today withdrew their application to the High Court in London to force British police to hand over evidence to them, after Leicestershire Constabulary agreed to share 81 pieces of information with them.

advertisement10:42am Monday 7th July 2008