5 Jul 2008

GONCALO CONFIRMS MADELEINE'S DEATH

Hi All, Claudia referred me to this translation she assisted with for gazetta digital and I have reproduced it below because it is obviously fascinating to hear directly now from Goncalo, just ahead of the court hearing McCanns v Leicester Police in open court on Monday. It is most unusual for a family case to be held in open court, normally strict privacy is ensured to protect the child, very sadly Madeleine is far beyond protection. Goncalo obviously realises the McCanns could not sue him because when the files are released next month they will confirm that British and Portuguese Police do of course believe that Madeleine died in their apartment and they then concocted a false abduction scenario and disposed of the body which is what they were being investigated for.


JUSTICE FOR MADDIE

4.7.08
http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/
The former Polícia Judiciária investigator criticized the PJ director and the Justice minister, on a interview, tonight, with TVI, a Portuguese TV channel. Asked if he believed that Madeleine was dead, Gonçalo Amaral said that he was “convinced” she was dead “based on the evidence collected”. When the journalist asked: “Was she killed, there (in the apartment)?”, the former PJ inspector said: “She died there”. About Madeleine's parents being named as formal suspects, Amaral spoke about “strong evidence” as the base for the decision and referred that “there was a common understanding”, between Portuguese and British police officers involved in the investigation, about the fact that Madeleine was dead.
“There was evidence, about two different crimes – which were referred by the defence lawyer, Pinto de Abreu, in a public statement – and it was hiding a body and a criminal simulation. That was the situation, when I left the investigation,” Mr. Amaral said. The former PJ inspector, who has a Law Degree from Lisbon University, mentioned the fact that “these kind of cases of disappearance, frequently bring with it other crimes, sometimes fake statements or physical abuse”.
Questioned about the fact that the McCann were not accused of negligence or child abandonment, Amaral said that “it was clear they (the McCann children) were not safe”, when Madeleine disappeared, but reminded that it's easier, with UK laws, to charge parents in those kind of situations, once the Portuguese Law is more complex, it requires the existence of intention to left the children in a dangerous situation. Gonçalo Amaral refused to comment any decision from the Public Prosecutor's Office of from the Courts and refused to admit that he was “frustrated” with those decisions. Asked about his removal from the investigation, the former PJ inspector told the journalist that he had no contact with PJ director, on that day, and he only knew the reasons when he had a “private conversation” with Alípio Ribeiro – refusing to give details about it.
Gonçalo Amaral revealed that the “statement” he gave to Diário de Notícias – and was the reason for his removal, according to the PJ director – was not correctly reproduced and it was not a statement to a newspaper, but just an informal talk with a journalist from Faro, “very close to the family, a friend of my wife”, who called him to ask about the email sent to the web site of Prince Charles, denouncing a former employee of Ocean Club as the kidnapper. “What I said, talking not to a journalist, but with a friend, a personal talk, was that Police should concentrate in what was the common conclusion of British and Portuguese Police: the child was dead and it was necessary to consolidate the existing evidence and move forward, to find where she could be and what happened.” At that moment, the kidnapping line of inquiry was “already closed”, and “another door was opened”, Mr. Amaral said. When asked about the existence of political interference in the investigation, is answer was short and clear: “I think there was more politics than police.”
“We did our job, the best we knew and we were the target of a lot critics and insults, from the British newspapers”, the former PJ inspector said. When the case of Joana Cipriano was first raised by the British Media, Mr. Amaral contacted the PJ director and called the attention for the risks, because those news about his alleged involvement in the “torture” of the mother of Joana Ciprianio would be, soon, a large campaign against him, and talked about the convenience of taking him out of investigation. “What they told me, later, was that I had all the support and should continue the work.”
“Surprised” with his removal from the investigation, Gonçalo Amaral used a popular Portuguese phrase to explain what he felt, when he knew about his removal: “I felt as I was kicked up in the ass, on October 2.” About the influence and importance of the McCann, Mr. Amaral said that “there is a all story to be told, about this case, and I think that the journalists that followed this case, have a great opportunity and responsibility, in helping to understand what happened. This is really, a case that is different from all other cases.” Gonçalo Amaral criticized the Justice minister, who said, after his removal, that “it was, now, time to work”: “Mr. Justice Minister Alberto Costa, we worked hard.”
Download the audio from the full TVI report and interview here.
(Transcription with the help of Cláudia)

236 comments:

1 – 200 of 236   Newer›   Newest»
hope4truth said...

Good Morning

Thanks Viv and Claudia for the translation. I think the Telegraph ran (at least on line)with some of the comments from this interview.

I have just looked at the front pages on line and dont see any massive headlines reporting this story. Maybe things will change from Monday when they go to the high court (or when the secrecy is finally lifted)..

As I have said before I cant belive that GA would make such a statement if the evidence did not excist not only would his reputation (that some have tried to damage already) be shot to pieces the final proof he hasnt got a clue but he would loose all in a law suit or could affect a future trial...

If the evidence is there (as is strongly suggested) that Madeleine died in 5A then the fund is fraudulant and it needs to be frozen (at least until this has been fully investigated)...

Gerry and Kate are still IMHO gross child neglecters as the 3rd was not the first evening they left their 3 children alone and moving forward Social Services and childcare charitys need to come forward and make other idiots perfectly aware this is not acceptable it is against the law (and before all that if you love your children why put them in danger in the first place?)...

No more pussy footing around the issue Madeleine was let down in the worse way possible and how her parents turned into the victims in this sorry mess is beyond me.

If she died and I belive from GA comments that she did I dont suppose we will ever know how and I wonder if her body will ever be found so she can be laid to rest.

Enough now this beautiful child deserves to rest in peace and if evidence excists to show she is indeed dead then her parents should be prosecuted for fraud sadly the courts often impose longer sentences for fraud than child neglect.

Poor little girl and if true God Bless the Twins it is heartbreaking to think their young lives may be delt another blow and they may loose two more people who they love and trust...

Life is very cruel...

bath theory said...

The point here is that the McCann's are bullying and threatening and unfortunately they have picked up connections & money early on that have given them time to mount a charade (IMO)

Surely these words sum it all up. Why aren't the mccann's sueing him then?

Gonçalo Amaral said that he was “convinced” she was dead “based on the evidence collected”. When the journalist asked: “Was she killed, there (in the apartment)?”, the former PJ inspector said: “She died there”. About Madeleine's parents being named as formal suspects, Amaral spoke about “strong evidence” as the base for the decision and referred that “there was a common understanding”, between Portuguese and British police officers involved in the investigation, about the fact that Madeleine was dead.

'..based on the evidence collected...'

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE

bath theory said...

Viv, have just read these words of yours from last night as I catch up.


'...Did Gerry McCann not realise that saying, among many other things, advertising her eye defect was a "good marketing tool" might make him sound like the antithesis of a loving parent. His thinking is so disordered he does not have the insight to understand how others see him, or hear him!...'

Could not agree more.

WE SHALL OVERCOME.

Zodiac said...

Hope,

You are up early.

I agree GA would not make statements he cannot back up, given he has a Law degree I am sure he knows what to say and what not to say. Lets see if he is sued. The new thread contents are shocking although come as no surprise. Wonder what will happen next week. I am totally disgusted the sooner justice comes the better, whatever that maybe. The next few days, weeks, months will be spin, spin, spin, IMO. I hope the little children who have probably given their pocket money etc and all others who are not even as well off those two get their money back or it goes to help others.



The link below from Alan 3 A's shows the trio on their hols.

http://www.the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17360


Dylan,

My Pradas are fab. Probably will not be around much over the weekend but just wanted to let you and Claudia know that I will be working hard on our Campaign, behind the er ye know the emm you know ...scenes. I wont be physically doing anything...but I will be doing everything I can to help our Panda...... sorry Elephants. Before I get started I am just of to have my hair done, get a manicure, pedicure, shop for co-ordinating clothes, have some wine and dinner with friends and fit a little short break in. This is what I have done so far, it has taken me days sat by my computer blogging err..em..umm.. I mean working behind the scenes :


Dear Friends of the Earth,

Pandas are cute and cuddly.

x


BBFN.

Zodiac said...

Bath theory,

Or when asked about the neglect in Strasbourg by a PT journalist his reply was:

YOU ARE GOING OVER OLD GROUND, IT IS REALLY QUITE BORING.

hope4truth said...

Morning Bath and Zodiac

Yes I wonder why they are not sueing it was the first phrase out of CMs mouth on so many occasions. GA will have been to see lawyers and had legal advice as well as his own knowledge let's face it if he is wrong he is finished...

If the PJ had no evidence they would have packed up ages ago and saved themselves a lot of money...

Gerry has said some heartless things marketing her eye the boring comment and his blog (well no wonder it was re launched) but still where is the love for that beautiful little girl...

I was up at 4.30 this morning as I lost the watch my Nan left me it is worth a lot of money but I kept thinking about it all night and finaly had to get up and find it (it was safe in a drawer) I was convinced I had thrown it out with some paper work. I would not care if it was worth nothing my Nan wore it every day until her eyesight worsend and she had to get a big face.

Now if I can lie in bed convinced I have lost something of such sentimental value and have to get up and search for it (and the relief when I found it was overwhelming) why cant a mother and father be botherd to look for their child or talk about what an angel she was?

SO very very sad xxx

Zodiac said...

Hope,

'Now if I can lie in bed convinced I have lost something of such sentimental value and have to get up and search for it (and the relief when I found it was overwhelming) why cant a mother and father be botherd to look for their child or talk about what an angel she was?'


Exactly! And if you had lost it I am sure you would have many sleepless nights over losing something so prescious, not just 3 then back to sleeping like a log.

Zodiac said...

'precious'

Zodiac said...

5/7/08

The Sun
Maddie 'died in holiday flat'
By LUCY HAGAN

Published: Today

MADELEINE McCann died in her family’s holiday flat, the officer who led the case into her disappearance claimed yesterday.


But ex-Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral said Maddie was not killed in the apartment.


He said he was convinced that Maddie — who vanished from the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007, shortly before her fourth birthday — will never be found alive. Amaral was kicked off the case after five months for publicly criticising British police.


He stopped just short of accusing Maddie’s parents Kate and Gerry of killing her, telling Portuguese TV: “It’s not that she was killed in the apartment, but she died there.

"The parents were suspects and there were indications which made them suspects.”


In a separate interview, he accused British and Portuguese cops of being influenced by a “campaign” by Kate and Gerry, of Rothley, Leics.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “Mr Amaral has consistently made these allegations. Kate and Gerry and their friends have nothing to do with Madeleine’s disappearance.”


Portuguese authorities are due to review the completed case file to decide if further action is required. That could let now-retired Amaral publish a book about the case.


l.hagan@the-sun.co.uk


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/maddie/article1385627.ece

Zodiac said...

Mirror

McCanns will take British police to court
By Rod Chaytor 5/07/2008
Kate and Gerry McCann (Pic:DM)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/07/05/mccanns-will-take-brit-cops-to-court-89520-20632540/

Have your say on What are you talking about? in our Forums
News picturesRelated Tags
gerry mccann, kate mccann


(What's this?)Kate and Gerry McCann are taking British police to court to try to get clues in the hunt for missing Madeleine.

The hearing in the High Court in London on Monday looked likely to be adjourned earlier this week when Portuguese police seemed to be about to open their files.

But McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell yesterday confirmed it will go ahead.

Their lawyer will argue they have the right to see material held by Leicestershire Police, who have been running the British end of the enquiry for the Portuguese.

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The police are expected to argue that their leads and evidence form the basis for a possible criminal case and should be kept confidential.

Kate and Gerry are on holiday and will not be in court.

A family friend said: "We are hopeful of a decision. Leicestershire Police have been privy to vital information which could be of great help to the private investigators looking for Madeleine."

Portuguese prosecutors are deciding whether to investigate further or close the file.

Kate and Gerry McCann, both 40, from Rothley, Leics, fear that would leave them permanently branded as official suspects over Madeleine's disappearance, in Praia da Luz in May 2007.

Zodiac said...

An important date regarding their missing child and what do they do....


'Kate and Gerry are on holiday and will not be in court.'

PJ came to the UK to interview what did they do.....they went to Brussels.

That,imo, is why we were told about the holiday.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

The Daily Mail has now picked up the story:

'Madeleine is dead' claims ex-police chief in charge of the case


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article
-1032170/Madeleine-dead-claims-ex-
police-chief-charge-case.html

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I forgot to add.

Notce the attempt to blacken Mr Amaral's name.

hope4truth said...

zodiac

I seem to be posting and running at the moment (and am about to do wo again)...

If I had not found the watch this morning I would have spend many weeks thinking of places it may be and be turning the house upside down...

Hope you are well see you later xxx

Cláudia said...

Hello, all.
Why would they interrupt their holidays, for God's sake? It's only their missing, most likely dead daughter we're are talking about here. Do they have some kind of aversion to courtrooms?

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

They won't be in court for the same reason they didn't search for Madeleine after she "vanished".

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, you know I'm very, very näive so I have no idea what you are talking about... ;-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

You only pretend to be naive (where have I heard that word before? Was it Kate?).

I meant that they know it won't bring Madeleine back as alas she is gone forever.

Wizard said...

Good Morning Viv,

Thank you for today’s article and also Claudia for her translation. I think what is being said here is what most of us have suspected for a long time. The next few weeks will be interesting to see how this play out - I’m not feeling quite so negative about this case as I was a few days ago and hope eventually some kind of justice will be done for poor little Madeline’s untimely death.

Best Regards as always.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, yeah, I know. :-)

Wizard, the translation was done by Paulo Reis. I just gave him a few ideas. That was all. :-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

On 3A's there is a lot of discussion about Mr Amaral's statement that Madeleine died in the flat but wasn't killed in the apartment.

Is the above a true reflection of what he said?

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, I think something must have been lost in translation. The journalist tried to trick Mr Amaral into directly pointing fingers. He replied saying that he is convinced that Madeleine died that evening in that apartment. The journalist insisted if he thought she was killed there. He said that he believed she died there but he couldn't say anything else at that time because the secrecy is still not over yet. He stated he believed Madeleine died in apartment 5A on the 3rd of May. As he said, that death may have had natural causes, may have been an accident or may have been caused by third parties. Only after the secrecy period is over will he be able to say everything he believes should be said.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Thanks for that Claudia.

I thought the problem was translation.

The bloggers on 3A's seem to be tying themselves in knots over this. Its a pity your viewpoint can't be injected into their forum.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN,

P.S: He also said that the McCanns were made suspects for concealment of a body and simulation of a crime (and other correlated crimes were also a possibility) and that there were stong elements which allowed them to become arguidos.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, I really don't have the time to post on the 3A. But I have no problem if you want to copy paste my explanatory post there. If you think it helps, that is.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, any Portuguese speaking person can understand what Mr Gonçalo Amaral meant. And the is a summary of last night's interview on Gazeta Digital.


http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2008/07/gonalo-amaral-and-madeleines-case-there.html


Interview

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

I seem to remember that you said you don't access 3A's. I've only just started doing so am believe you might also find it interesting

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, I occasionally read it, but only when a poster points out something which may be of interest. To be honest, I don't have enough time to do it and from what I understand there are a lot of theories and I'm not much into discussing theories and gruesome details. However, I PMSL a few nights ago when Doc posted a link for satyrical images on the 3A. :-)

Joe said...

This on the 3A's and on the McCann Files......




Report of PJ discards abduction theory Correio da Manhã

05 July 2008
Translation by Joana Morais

CM reveals content of the document

The main argument against the kidnapper entry through the apartment's window was given by the parents.
Window to small to pass the child through it
Group Witness Contradicted

Main Topics
English Lab withdrew the final results
Dogs scented blood in the house and in the car
Kate and Maddie Clothes had cadaver odour
McCanns Neighbour heard Child crying for more than one hour

(Articles currently being translated - 6 pages)

CdM 05 07 2008

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Thanks again Claudia

I like this Q & A from the Expresso interview. (if it is a true translation).

Q. Were you pressurised by any politician?
A. I was not pressurised, I was dismissed.


It says a lot in a few words.

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, yes, it is a true translation. :-)

The several articles in Correio da Manhã are still being translated. They will be eventually available.

docmac said...

Afternoon everyone

Can anyone give me the names of O'Brien and Tanners' offspring please.

docmac said...

Correio da Manha front page headline:

RELATORIO DA PJ DESFAZ TEZE DE RAPTO
PJ (final) repot discounts abductor theory.

docmac said...

er...report

Cláudia said...

Doc, are you surprised? ;-)

Sorry, can't help you with the kids' names.

docmac said...

Claudia have you read the early translations or read it yourself? Here comes BIG SHIT for those scumbags. I've a feeling they are not on holiday ;-)

AND the dogs scented death on Kate's shorts and T-shirt!!!!!! Never heard of a doctor going to certify a death in that sort of apparel, have you?

AND the death scent was on items of Maddie's clothing!!!!!

Cláudia said...

Doc, what early translations?
I did not buy Correio da Manhã, but that is what newspapers and TV channels are reporting. The translations will certainly be posted on Joana Morais and McCann Files. Joana Morais blog had one of the articles translated already.

Cláudia said...

Doc, and on Cuddlecat.
Oh, and Eddie and Keela, one trained to detect blood and the other trained to detect the death scent, apparently reacted in the exact same places and objects...

docmac said...

Joana is where I saw it. Then I heade on over to 3A and the story is running like a bushfire. Ironside then pasted a different article which referred to where the death scent found as mentioned above

docmac said...

Re the dogs, their findings are not in dispute by any reasonable person.

Cláudia said...

CM reveals content of the document

The main argument against the kidnapper entry through the apartment's window was given by the parents.
Window to small to pass the child through it
Group Witness Contradicted

Main Topics
English Lab withdrew the final results
Dogs scented blood in the house and in the car
Kate and Maddie Clothes had cadaver odour
McCanns Neighbour heard Child crying for more than one hour



Translating 6 pages - will post as soon as possible



Main Article: PJ couldn’t find child’s body

INVESTIGATION REVEALS ABDUCTION IMPOSSIBLE

Final report describes dozens of diligences and unravels incongruences in the theory proposed by Maddie’s parents

Thirteen months after Madeleine disappeared, the PJ ended the investigation that continues to be marked by uncertainties. The final report, the CM today exclusively reveals, does not determine guilt but leaves new and strong doubts about the theory presented by the English child’s parents. It describes in great detail the diligences done by the investigators – who tried, in every possible way, to confirm their hypothesis – and reveals that it was theoretically impossible to have happened. The witnesses don’t make sense, especially not the way that one of the friends said she saw a man carrying a child almost an hour before the alert about the disappearance occurred. This would be Jane Tanner, who guarantees she surprised the unknown man in a street where Maddie’s father and another witness also were. Both guarantee that they saw nothing, even though they were in the same line of sight. Tanner, who much later made a photofit of the supposed abductor, also said that the man carried the child in a horizontal position. The size of the window reveals that this could only have happened if the child were carried vertically.

Being that as it may, the PJ tried through all possible means to find who could have taken Maddie. They did dozens of diligences related to suspects of sexual abuse. Elements were collected about those registered that could have been on holidays in the Algarve during that time period, in order to verify if there could have been any connection with little Maddie.

In addition, all the other residents of the village were investigated. The PJ entered more than 400 houses surrounding the Ocean Club and found nothing. On the window where Kate guaranteed that Maddie was taken no vestiges of the girl were found. Only marks that confirmed the DNA of the girl’s mother.

The PJ’s final report shows the details of an investigation that reached unprecedented levels. A couple was investigated that had allegedly tried to abduct another child, a fine toothed comb was used to research the clues that Maddie had been seen at a gas station. A crematorium was searched and Maddie’s genetic profile was compared to that of a child’s body found on the coast of the United States.

The PJ investigated a supposed beggar and followed thousands of clues around the world. In vain. Nothing confirmed the proposed abduction theory.


The animals detected cadaver odor in the apartment, the stuffed animal and Kate’s clothes

DOGS DECISIVE FOR PJ

British animals [both] agreed on the scent of “indications” in various places and objects



The alerting of the British dogs specially trained to detect cadaver odor and human blood was decisive in making Kate and Gerry arguidos.

Faced with the coincidence of the alerting of both animals, which signaled the same locations and objects related to the McCanns, the authorities were obliged to admit a possible involvement of Kate and Gerry in the disappearance of their daughter and to make them arguidos in order to confront them with evidence which could result in their incrimination – for, as [merely] witnesses, they could not opt to remain silent.

According to what CM has discovered, in the final investigation report produced by the PJ the investigators explained that the animals only gave their detection signals in places and objects related to the McCanns: in the apartment where Madeleine disappeared (in the parent’s bedroom, the living room and next to a side window), in the back patio, the family’s car (rented 24 days after the girl disappeared), two pieces of Kate’s clothes and Maddie’s stuffed animal – the one Kate never released in the days following the disappearance.

In the McCann’s friend’s apartments, in the Luz village and in all the vehicles used by Robert Murat, the first to be made arguido, nothing was found by the dogs.

Given these indications, reinforced by other detailed tests done in Portugal and England, the PJ interrogated Kate and Gerry and made them arguidos.

The animals, Springer Spaniels, are heavily used in the UK in the search for missing people or homicide victims, with positive results.


KATE JUSTIFIES DEATH ODOR
Kate McCann didn’t negate the fact that her two pieces of clothes and the stuffed animal had been signaled by the English dogs trained to find cadaver odor and justified it by her profession. Madeleine’s mother alleged that as a doctor at the Leicester health center, she was present at six deaths directly before she came to Portugal on holiday, giving the same excuse for Madeleine’s stuffed animal, that was with her in the months after her daughter disappeared.

VESTIGES OF A CRIME
Two specially trained dogs, used as criminal investigation assistants, detected cadaver odor in the McCann’s bedroom, the living room, Kate’s clothes, the girl’s stuffed animal and the car key, as well as spots of blood in the boot of the car and the apartment living room.

Link for floorplan of where the dogs found scents big scanned image



Change of Versions: Laboratory no longer was certain

ENGLISH RETREATED ON THE EXAMS

They said the vestiges were compatible with Maddie’s DNA, then later denied it.

Dog’s indications were not corroborated by science

It was the strangest about-face in the investigation. The first exams done by the English laboratory, a pioneer in the analysis of biological vestiges, said it was probable that the residues collected in the McCann’s car were compatible with Madeleine’s genetic profile.

Months later – after the PJ had made the parents arguidos, according to the final report only because of indications that they had hidden the child’s body – the laboratory ended up correcting their initial information. In the end, the exams of the vestiges collected from the Renaul Scénic rented by the McCanns were not conclusive and it wasn’t even possible to determine the quality of the material, that is, to know whether it was bodily fluid or vestiges of blood.

This scientific alteration, still not completely clarified, ended up leading the investigation to a dead end. The utilization of the dogs that detected cadaver odors and blood are not valid within the Portuguese judicial system and it was necessary to scientifically corroborate the dog’s detections.

The PJ’s decision to send the analyses to England was based on a question of credibility. The investigators didn’t want the results to be disputed by the English, accepting therefore that the vestiges should be analyzed in that country.

USELESS TRIP TO ENGLAND
In April of this year, Paulo Rebelo and two of the investigators for this process who were trying to understand the puzzle of Madeleine’s disappearance went to Leicester to interview the British who spent holidays in Praia de Luz with the McCanns. From the final report, we now know that nothing conclusive was discovered from these interrogations.

The PJ maintained the same close collaboration with the local police, but from the depositions they brought nothing new. The McCann friends limited themselves to confirming what they had said in the earlier interviews and the PJ left with empty hands from that city just north of London.

Cláudia said...

Doc, the people you're talking about don't even accept the McCanns neglected their children, man. You can't expect reason from extremists who defend convicted child murderers.

The long post I copy pasted before can be found here:

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/

Cláudia said...

So, the final report from the best laboratory in the world contradicts their first findings? Interesting...

docmac said...

Claudia

It says the lab 'withdrew' the final results. I'm not sure what that means but there has been a LOT of speculation that pressure was put on the FSS by forces as yet unknown.

I've just read this again, how sad. From the mouth of Clarence Mitchell:

"As far as Kate and Gerry are concerned, there is no missing tennis bag," he said.

"They came back from holiday with everything except of course, tragically, Madeleine."

Cláudia said...

Doc, tragically indeed.

Apparently the final report from FSS contradicts their first one...

Cláudia said...

See what I meant when I said I couldn't wait for the files to become public? Can you imagine hundreds of thristy journalists investigating all this? All of them free of interference, diplomacy and burocracy? They wanted the secrecy over, right? Well, people should be careful with what they wish for.

docmac said...

CONFUSION:

Anonymous said...

LARDY BOY DROPPED IN THE SHIT BY CLAWS TSK! TSK!
Was he there to know this?
or does he know where Maddie is?
This just shows the fat slob for what he is a bone idle,drunk, bent cop and woman beater. Why did his wife leave him?????????????

GONCALO CONFIRMS MADELEINE'S DEATH
Hi All, Claudia referred me to this translation she assisted with for gazetta digital and I have reproduced it below because it is obviously fascinating to hear directly now from Goncalo, just ahead of the court hearing McCanns v Leicester Police in open court on Monday. It is most unusual for a family case to be held in open court, normally strict privacy is ensured to protect the child, very sadly Madeleine is far beyond protection. Goncalo obviously realises the McCanns could not sue him because when the files are released next month they will confirm that British and Portuguese Police do of course believe that Madeleine died in their apartment and they then concocted a false abduction scenario and disposed of the body which is what they were being investigated for.

05 July 2008 13:55


He's married! But I agree, 'Claws' must be pooping herself, lolol!!

AND PARANOIA:

supertroll said...

This is a message to the visitor from Leeds who is using a Firefox browser, Windows 98 and who's IP address contains the following numbers which I have jumbled up:

8824758

Stop trying to gain unauthorised access into my account or you will be reported.

ST

05 July 2008 14:12


Oh, what a pleasant Saturday afternoon.

docmac said...

Claudia I firmly believe the press already know far more than they're letting on. And all journalists and editors are after a bit of fame...

Cláudia said...

Doc, could you shed some light on the post you copy pasted from the shit hole? lololol

Docmac, I can assure you some investigative journalists can't wait to start.

Cláudia said...

P.S: Doc, do you think the celebrities are enjoying their vacation?

docmac said...

I dunno Clawd. It seems because you translated something into English you've dropped Amaral in the poo:-)

What vacation? It's an emergency meeting, like the last time.

And do you know the case on Monday to try to get access to the files? I believe they want to know what their mates said in their interviews, nothing more.

Cláudia said...

Over one Hour Crying


Pamela Fenn remembers hearing the child uncontrollably crying

Madeleine parents never contradicted that it was already a habit for their three children to be all alone inside the Praia da Luz apartment while they dined; a fact corroborated by several witness statements - the Oceans Club employees. Although the parents defended themselves by stating that they visited the children every half an hour, every night, the witness statement of neighbour Pamela Fenn crumbled the McCann couple’s version, when she guaranteed to the PJ that she had heard Maddie crying out loud for one hour and fifteen minutes, two nights before the crime. The British woman lives at the first floor, just above the apartment rented by the McCanns and she told to the inspectors, that on the night of the 1st of May, at 22:30, she heard a child crying, and by the sound it was Madeleine.

She guaranteed to the Judiciary Police that the child was uncontrollably crying for one hour and fifteen minutes, until the parents arrived. The neighbour heard the noise of the door at 23:45, when Kate and Gerry ended their usual gathering with their friends at the Tapas Bar – the Oceans Club restaurant at the pool side, where they had dinner daily. This testimony contradicts the daily routine of visits that the couple declared to have with their children – and the McCanns are not free from criticism by another British woman. Yvone Martin, a British Social Care worker at holidays in Luz, who also blamed the McCanns negligent behavior.


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/

Oooops, I guess there's no spinning this one once the files become open, uh?

Cláudia said...

Doc, I only helped Mr Paulo Reis a bit. But I would happily translate the night away, Anything to p*** them off. :-)

So, do you think they're enjoying their meeting?

Isn't the session open? Makes it a bit more difficult to spin it, doesn't it?

Cláudia said...

God bless you, Pamela Fenn. There is nothing more liberating than the truth, is there?

docmac said...

I'm sure Clarence will give it a go Claudia.

Cláudia said...

Doc, surely! :-)

docmac said...

Where is everyone else? Is there a tennis match on or something? I don't like tennis players anymore.

Cláudia said...

Doc, I don't like tennis.
Well, here it is a beautiful afternoon but unfortunately I can't go out and enjoy it because I have some people replacing the shutters.
Do you think that L is at the meeting? :-)

docmac said...

It's a distinct possibility.

Cláudia said...

Doc, then she must be p***ed! lolol

I'm getting some eggman free shutters, especially made in Leicester.

docmac said...

Should you trust anything from Leicester these days?

Cláudia said...

Well, that is a good point you're making, Doc...

docmac said...

The Stilton's pretty good, though the one I buy here is from Derbyshire.

I've got something building inside me, Claudia. It's been going on all afternoon. I thought I might be coming down with a tummy bug, but it didn't feel quite the same if you know what I mean. Oh hang on, it's only a new addition to my original theory coming through! Thank goodness for that.

Cláudia said...

Doc, PMSL!!!!
lolololol
Don't you think you would feel a lot better if you emailed me? :-)

docmac said...

No, you'll translate it and tell Paulo :-)))

Cláudia said...

Hey, no I won't. Paulo is me, remember? So what's the problem? ;-)

docmac said...

I need to be sure ;-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, ;-)
I'm waiting! :p

docmac said...

You have mail..

Cláudia said...

Hmmm, 'intresting' :-)
Reply under way! :-)

docmac said...

OK I replied finally. I'm just busy with a couple of other things right now.

Cláudia said...

No problem. Also replied! :-)
Thank you!

docmac said...

One of those things you'll see if you look back at the previous topic :-)))))))))))

Cláudia said...

Doc, just e-mail me, man! :p

Cláudia said...

On the Side

CHANGES
Paulo Rebelo, the new leader of the investigation after Gonçalo Amaral's exit, was at the Ocean Club several times, from which were collected a variety of vestiges. He was also in England, where he heard testimonies.

NUMBERS

443
door to door interviews at Ocean Club apartments, done by the PJ, are part of 2000 diligences, formal and informal, undertaken during the investigation

134
village employees were heard by the inspectors in the days following the crime. The PJ also spoke with the 12 GNR officers that went through the apartment on the night of 3 May.

130
police and civil guard workers were involved in the first 24 hours of the search. On the following day, this number increased to 300.

188
garbage bins were searched with a fine-toothed comb in Praia da Luz, Lagos, in an attempt to find Madeleine's body.

30
square kilometers is the area covered in searches by all the land forces during the first days, in addition to the Maritime Police.

Source: Correio da Manhã

Translations By Debk and JM


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/

docmac said...

Patience is a virtue Claudia, it's something I have to use every day. Panic too, but I'm used to that.

Look back at the previous topic on this blog, posts 392 to 401. Gotcha! Oh, how great do I feel? It's better than winning a Nobel!

docmac said...

Well thanks for that Claudia. We were told endlessly by certain posters that the PJ were just sitting on their lazy fat slob asses all day having lunch. Well, well, well. Maybe they did get out their 'fine tooth comb' as was once mentioned after all. I never did receive a reply when I asked why the poster combed their teeth. Not that they have any mind you.

Cláudia said...

Doc, what a bad day for L et al.
Open the files, open the files, open the files! :-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, PMSL! Doing it like that doesn't count. :p

docmac said...

Anonymous anonymous said...

Lardy Boy Gonc.

I know a scruffy fat man
He looks just like a donk
All he does is eat and drink
His name is dirty Gonc

He really likes his 3 hour lunch
He thinks that is his job
His knife and fork and spoon and all
He sticks them in his gob

He can't help it I suppose
He's quite a big fat bloke
There is one thing that I do wish
Be very very careful Gonc just in case you choke

It won't be long and he's in court
Along with his best mates
Lets hope they get a real bad judge
That sticks them all behind those gates

He will be sitting in his cell
We know that he will get bored
But no worries there Gonc
You'll always have old Clawd

05 July 2008 16:10



Well, 5 things:
1. This poster is desperate or
2. This poster is seeking a lawsuit or
3. This poster is Christabel or
4. This poster is a terrible poet ie M21 or RP or
5. This poster is 14.

docmac said...

Claudia

The answer to your e-mailed query has now been confirmed. It's Gerry. How interesting is that? Are you 100% sure of what you told me previously?

Cláudia said...

Really???? How that makes it even more than 'intresting'! lolol
What are you talking about, amigo? I've told you so many things previously...

Cláudia said...

Doc, as for the other post, your 5 possibilities may be all right! lolololol
A little poem to distract attention from the news... :-)
Great Saturday afternoon indeed. Hunt season is not far. :-)

docmac said...

Yes, really. It seems there may be more going on under the surface than what you might have heard :-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, please, e-mail me the 'poem' and the link, if you don't mind. And you can also add a few more details to that e-mail! ;-)

docmac said...

Well the 'poem' was on ST. It has now been whoosh-clunked!!

Cláudia said...

Hmmmm...
Doc, aren't you feeling a sudden urge to e-mail me? :-)

docmac said...

No, my 'urges' do not include e-mailing :-) If you want to mail me and tell me what you mean exactly I have no problem. However we are just busy sedating the small one so we can go to the Cape Grace for dinner so I may take some time to reply. May even do a little coke which will delay any response even more.

Hello G&K!!! This stuff is gooooood!

Cláudia said...

Doc, ok. But make sure that at least 30 or 40 people enter and leave the place, ok? You never know. E-mailing you in a few seconds.

docmac said...

Come on, Claudia. It's only 25km by road. Even less if we swim back. No problem.

Cláudia said...

Well, if you wannna take chances...
At least leave all doors and windows unlocked, ok?

hope4truth said...

Doc and Claudia

You two are terrible LOL love the poem I dont think mum from hell is up to that standard probebly writen by a 14 year old...

I am off out taking my girls with us and wont be swimming back (although with this rain we may need a boat)...

See you both soon xxx

Cláudia said...

Hi, Hope. We're a good team, aren't we? :-)
Bye, Hope! :-)

docmac said...

Here's a link for you Claudia. Xenphobes unite!

Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?
by Rosiepops on Thu Jul 03, 2008 1.43 am

It has been reported that the McCann family are on holiday with the twins, if this is true, the recent leaks have great significant timing!

Kate and Gerry would have had to report to the PJ that they were going away on holiday, so I believe that these leaks, leaked by the PJ were done solely to disrupt their holiday and spoil it for them and especially for the twins.

If it was ever possible that this scum of a police force could actually slip any lower in my estimation, they have just managed it, how abhorrent this dreadful narcissistic police force actually is.

This making the McCann's arguidos was never about finding Madeleine or discovering what happened to her, it was all about saving face for this totally inept, insensitive, uncaring amoral police force.

A truly terrible, spiteful nasty morally bankrupt Portuguese Judiciaria (PJ)


It seems Rosiepoops has as much trouble remembering 'Policia Justiciaria' as she does remembering 'Leonor/Leona/Leoni/Leonora/Leonard/Thelma/Madeleine/Margaret/Louise/Jennifer

Cipriano/Cipriani/Capriano/Capriani/Capriati.

I still don't like tennis players, but Capriati was not bad.

Cláudia said...

Doc, lolololol
You should be a bit more understanding. After all, it's only been 14 months. And Rosiepoophead has been worried about other things a bit more important than spelling. And hey, if G doesn't get it right, why would she?

Cláudia said...

P.S: you forgot the Christavo/ Cristoav/ Cristaov/ Cristovoa.

docmac said...

Lol Claudia

Here I am looking up at Table Mountain and enjoying a 'marktail' before dinner and surfing on the mobile while M is visiting the wine cellar. How sad is that ;-)

I'll be sure to check later if someone mentioned my deliberately incorrect spelling of 'Judiciaria'. Unfotunately any mention of it after this post will be disqualified :-)))

Enjoy your evening.

Cláudia said...

Your spelling of udiciária, although incorrect was apprpriate because she doesn'e get that correct either! :-)
Enjoy! :-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia (if you're still reading)

You you put any significance in the aside by Mr Amaral:

"The little girl went up in smoke?"

Or is it just a figure of speech?

Cláudia said...

ICTOAN, personally I think it's just a figure of speech.

marga said...

ICTON,

esfumar= evaporate, disappear

But who knows if it was used on purpose!Only GA.

marga said...

Cláudia,

only now I notice that in the picture of Sara there is no blue pillow. Is it a light?

marga said...

From what I have seen in the picture attached to CM's article there was also scent of death outside the apartment, in the garden. It is sth weird, isn't it?

dylan said...

Good evening all!

Zodiac, I am glad you are enjoying your Pradas and paying so much attention to your personal appearance in order to give a good impression, but, psssst! elephants, elephants, elephants! (although Pandas are just as worthy a cause but no condoms needed there, eh?!)

Doc and Claudia, I would sooo love to know what the secret theory is. I looked back and all I could see was Doc sneaking in whilst Claudia's back was turned to steal the first new page!! aahhh!....

Some very revealing info today, I can't see how K & G are going to be able ride above what is soon to be released. It will be very damaging IMO. Why, also would the FSS withdraw the second results? All about as fishy as Opus' dinner plate!

I trust you are all having a good saturday.

BBL xx

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Hi Dylan

Do do realise that today (and tomorrow) takes place the supreme sporting event of the year.

I am not talking about sibling rivalry in a London suburb but the quest for the £30,000 prize at the annual International Bognor Birdman contest. (Taking place in Worthing).

No one has yet flown the required 100m. although someone today managed in excess of 86.

Tomorrow is another day.

Cláudia said...

Sorry, Marga. Was away.
Yes, it was the phototherapy light in Sara's picture.

Dylan, yeah Doc caught me off guard! :-)

Cláudia said...

Judiciary Report

Francisco Moita Flores Criminalist


The speculation surrounding the final report of the Maddie case would like to make one believe that the upcoming archival means the PJ have persecuted the child's parents without reason. This is a manipulated falsehood.

The final report of any process does not find innocence nor guilt. Doing this is beyond the reach of the PJ. Their responsibility is just to describe the facts and relationships with the people involved.

The report will narrate all the activities completed since the night of 3 May. It will tell which diligences were done, reveal the steps that took them to constitute as arguidos several players in this story. It will vigorously present the references for the searches, the tests, the diligences with the dogs, the activities done abroad to find the child, the news from the papers, the witnesses who directly or indirectly were involved in the case, the reconstitution of which so much was spoken and never was done. It will describe the facts.

The Public Ministry will have to say whether there was abandonment of minors, whether or not the process should continue with more diligences, or conversely, further develop the homicide theory or, finally, archive with no further delays.

On the Side

CHANGES
Paulo Rebelo, the new leader of the investigation after Gonçalo Amaral's exit, was at the Ocean Club several times, from which were collected a variety of vestiges. He was also in England, where he heard testimonies.

NUMBERS

443
door to door interviews at Ocean Club apartments, done by the PJ, are part of 2000 diligences, formal and informal, undertaken during the investigation

134
village employees were heard by the inspectors in the days following the crime. The PJ also spoke with the 12 GNR officers that went through the apartment on the night of 3 May.

130
police and civil guard workers were involved in the first 24 hours of the search. On the following day, this number increased to 300.

188
garbage bins were searched with a fine-toothed comb in Praia da Luz, Lagos, in an attempt to find Madeleine's body.

30
square kilometers is the area covered in searches by all the land forces during the first days, in addition to the Maritime Police.

Source: Correio da Manhã

Translations By Debk and JM

by Joana Morais

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/

bath theory said...

McCann files is useful today isn't it.

...The neighbour heard the noise of the door at 23:45, when Kate and Gerry ended their usual gathering with their friends at the Tapas Bar – the Oceans Club restaurant at the pool side, where they had dinner daily. This testimony contradicts the daily routine of visits that the couple declared to have with their children – and the McCanns are not free from criticism by another British woman. Yvonne Martin, a British Social Care worker on holiday in Luz, who also blamed the McCanns negligent behaviour...

These two will meet justice one day.

Cláudia said...

Bath Theory, the statement from Pamela Fenn is especially dedicated to all the convicted child murderers defenders brigade. I want to see them spinning that when the files are open and printed in newspapers worldwide! :-)

Cláudia said...

PJ INVESTIGATES TRANSPORTATION
One of the slowest pieces of the investigation was to collect and analyze all information relative to possible means of transportation/escape, by land, sea or air. In addition, all the images collected from tourists on holidays at that time, but, once again, nothing was found. This information was all compiled in an appendix attached to the process, with another containing just information on those suspected of sexual crimes. The PJ also created a dossier of all individuals with a history of violent crimes, with their lives being examined to the tiniest detail. It was important to determine if they could have had any connection with the abduction.


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/

dylan said...

ICTOAN,

I wish I were there to see it. Sounds like fun and beats the tennis hands-down! Do let us know if the elusive 100m is reached.

Thanks for all of the info today, folks. Claudia, you are correct in saying that no-one with a heart is going to condone the McCanns when hearing Mrs Fenn's witness. So utterly sad and I would imagine that poor woman will have to live with the knowledge that she heard Madeleine's desolate cries and that these may have been some of her last. There's always the element of self-doubt in that maybe, she could have done more, but then she wasn't to know what would transpire. :-(

Off for an early night (well, for me anyway)

Take care all & nite

xx

docmac said...

'Kinel. I just got back from a FANTASTIC dinner at the Cape Grace. I did not even realise this place won top hotel in the WORLD in Conde Nast in 2000. The manager would not stop telling me about all the awards they had won, so I told him I'll give them a plug everywhere I go. So please see:

Cape Grace Hotel

See you in Cape Town soon :-)

atardi said...

Thanks Cláudia and (today) Docmac for all the information.

I truly hope that Madeleine will get Justice.

I knew that the kids were left alone but my heart broke after I read that that little poor girl has been crying for an hour and a half (75 minutes!). All by herself. No one to comfort her.

Cláudia said...

Well said, Dylan. Read you tomorrow.

Doc, fantastic!!!!

Now that a look at the f***ing nutter below. Lock this so called mother up.


Unbelievable

Cláudia said...

It's unbelievable, isn't it, Atardi? :-(

Cláudia said...

Smile

docmac said...

I just lost a long post in response, Claudia. So I'll just say :-((((

Cláudia said...

Doc, to be honest, there are no words to comment on that. That, to me, is abuse. But I'm sure the convicted child killers' defenders find it good parenting. After all, the girl is well taken care of, is clean, well dressed and is fed.

atardi said...

Cláudia,

Yes unbelievable and disgusting. Eyelashes at 8, hair extentions, etc.

My children wanted to have influence on the clothes they had to wear at the age of 3. And sometimes I found the clothes (the combination) awful but it was their choice.

This woman wants to compensate something. She is doing it by "using" her daughter. It's a shame.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Claudia

I couldn't face reading the Barbie story but I did read the comments and was interested by this one:

"I couldn't even stomach reading the whole thing. This is absolutely obscene. I am horrified and sickened.

- Beeper, Rothley, 04/7/2008 23:14'

Cláudia said...

Atardi and ICTOAN, if that woman lived in Portugal and her story was in the press like that, tomorrow I guarantee you she wouldn't leave her house...

docmac said...

Here we go again. See 8.08am and 8.09am.

Cláudia said...

By Rosiepoophead

(...) Amaral did not actually say what Claudia is attributing to him, and if she does not stop doing this, both her and lardy boy are going to get a rude awakening very very soon. (A lot sooner than she thinks!)
---------------------------------------

Yes, he did. I mean, not exactly because he didn't say it in English!
And is that a threat, Poops? Because if it is, I'll get you an e-mail address and you can send it directly to Mr Gonçalo Amaral. ;-)

atardi said...

Docmac,

It has been reported that the McCann family are on holiday with the twins, if this is true, the recent leaks have great significant timing!

Kate and Gerry would have had to report to the PJ that they were going away on holiday, so I believe that these leaks, leaked by the PJ were done solely to disrupt their holiday and spoil it for them and especially for the twins.



Do you think this person already read about Madeleine crying for 75 minutes? Is this person not concerned for the twins?

Cláudia said...

Atardi,

1 - Yes.
2 - No.

docmac said...

Atardi, I do not know where Kate and the twins are, but Gerry is not on holiday.


Claudia, you want a laugh?

Cláudia said...

I do, Doc. But I can't access the page. :-(

Cláudia said...

Doc, maybe it's a special kind of 'holiday'. ;-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, I already copy pasted the most interesting part of that thread in one of my posts above. :-)

docmac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
atardi said...

Doc,

Where is Gerry than?

Cláudia said...

Doc, I have not read it all because some of it is old news. However, people who post recognisable photos of family members should be careful when they comment on other people's avatars...

Anyway, the interesting part is the 'subtle' threat... :-))))) That is the part which interests me...

Joe said...

This from the McMail.....


Motors | Jobs | Property | Dating | Wine | Feedback | E-editions
Saturday, July 05 2008 This Evening 14°C Cloudy Tomorrow Morning 18°C Cloudy 5-Day Forecast
Kate and Gerry McCann 'could be charged with neglecting Madeleine'

By Mail On Sunday Reporter
Last updated at 11:43 PM on 05th July 2008

* commentsComments (0)
* Add to My Stories Add to My Stories


Kate and Gerry McCann could be charged by Portuguese police with neglecting their missing daughter Madeleine.

It is understood detectives have submitted their final report on the case to the country's attorney general.
Kate and Gerry McCann

Kate and Gerry McCann could be charged with neglect, even though there is no evidence to suggest they were involved in Madeleine disappearance


More...

* 'Madeleine is dead' claims ex-police chief in charge of the case

Although it concludes there is no evidence that the couple were involved in the disappearance of their daughter shortly before her fourth birthday, it leaves the McCanns open to charges of abandoning Madeleine and their twins Sean and Amelie, then two, in their holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3 last year, according to Portuguese newspapers`
Madeleine McCann

Madeleine went missing from the Praia da Luz holiday apartment last May

A judicial source told the newspaper Correio da Manha: 'If it was a case of abduction, as the parents themselves argue, it was they who created the necessary conditions for that to take place.'

Last night, the McCanns' spokesman said: 'This is the first we have heard of this. Any charges would be vigorously contested.'

The McCanns are 'reluctantly' taking Leicestershire Constabulary to the High Court tomorrow to make it hand over any evidence it collected during liaisons with its Portuguese counterparts in the hunt for Madeleine.

It is believed that the force refused to open its files to the McCanns, who believe British police may have received calls from members of the public which could be helpful to private detectives working for the family.

ICantThinkOfAName said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
docmac said...

Atardi, let's just say he's 'close' to some colleagues right now.

Claudia, I'll delete that post as it is so long and boring :-)

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Sorry

Joe just beat me to it.

Cláudia said...

Doc, you don't have to delete it. I don't mind. It's funny, to be honest. And some of it is 'intresting'... :-)

docmac said...

Crikey, from that Mail article submitted by Joe it seems it's warmer here than there, both day and night. And it's midwinter!

Cláudia said...

Doc, I hope tomorrow is not too hot here. I have a Christening and I'm wearing very high heels! :-)

viv said...

Hiya all

Did others notice there is no evidence of Madeleine being dead in her own bedroom. The dogs marked her presence on the patio, in the parents bedroom and in the living room. It was very odd that when Rebelo and his officers re-attended the scene in October, one of them was jumping up and down on the patio as if to see what was underneath, or what could have been underneath.

This again confirms that the McCanns must have known Madeleine was already dead when they went out at 8 pm that night. What happened to Madeleine in those three areas and why did they move her body around, as this seems to suggest. Did Gerry remove the body from their bedroom to the living room, near the rear patio door, ready for removal, behind the sofa?

I am looking forward to Monday:-))

Doc, I already removed your long boring post! Nothing they write is worth reading..

Viv x

atardi said...

Docmac,

What is he doing with his colleagues?

Cláudia said...

Hi, Viv. Because you mentioned it, here it goes. It is also interesting that Madeleine's DNA wasn't found near the window and shutters. Or anyone elses's apart from Kates, apparently.
.........................................


Cadaver odour 'in the flowerbed of the yard', 05 July 2008

Correio da Manhã reports (as above) that cadaver odour was detected 'in the flowerbed of the yard' at the rear of the apartment outside the patio doors. Is it possible that Madeleine could have woken, found her way out of the apartment and met with an accident?

The Times revealed that there had been previous problems with Madeleine's sleep patterns: 'These days it was rare for Madeleine to wake up at all once she was in bed. If she did, she'd normally wander into her parents' bed, whether they were there or not. At home in Rothley, sometime earlier, they had begun a star chart for Madeleine staying in her own bed. The chart, still on display in the kitchen, was full of stars.'

'Sources close to the investigation also confirmed that police attention was solely focused on the back of the apartment, which leads on to a small garden easily accessible from a public path through a gateway."' reported the Daily Mail.


(Pic above) Although a child's safety gate was in place at the top of the steps, leading up to the patio area, you will see that the wall to the backyard area has two different heights. At the top of the steps the wall is high, too high for a child to climb, but just further along the wall becomes dramatically smaller and easy for a child to scale or stumble over. The area immediately below this contains the flowerbeds.


(2 pics above) These views show the flowerbed area at the base of the wall, immediately below the patio area.

(Pic above) Aerial view of the courtyard area. Note: Mrs Fenn sitting on her balcony immediately above the McCanns apartment.


(2 pics above) When Paulo Rebelo visited the apartment, on 29 October 2007, he paid particular attention to the patio and steps area. In the first picture he appears to be working through a scenario with his officers.

*

Gerry's blog 22 July 2007: 'We were essentially performing our own baby listening service although we have talked of the guilt we felt at now being there at the moment Madeleine was taken.'

Gerry McCann, MSNBC documentary, 03 March 2008: "But it will not take away the feeling of guilt that we will have with us forever that at the moment Madeleine was abducted, we were not there."

Kate McCann, ITV1 One Year On documentary, aired 30 April 2008: "…As Gerry said, the guilt you feel for not being there and giving someone that opportunity, you know but then I just have to kind of reel myself in and think you know I know how much I love Madeleine and I have no doubt that Madeleine knows how much I love her."


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id79.html

docmac said...

Atardi, you have mail.

docmac said...

OK, Posh. Enjoy the wedding. Just don't turn too orange in the sun now.

docmac said...

Yes Viv, that tennis bag must have stood on the patio for quite a while as Gerry had to deal with that pesky Wilkins fella.

Cláudia said...

Doc, I am light skinned but I don't turn red or orange. And Posh, yikes!

docmac said...

Shite Claudia, Christening, sorry! Too much Chardonnay?

Cláudia said...

Doc, "if she (you) does not (do not) stop doing this, both her (you) and lardy boy are going to get a rude awakening very very soon. (A lot sooner than she (you) thinks! (think) )

lolololololol

Wanna share lawyers? They would be surprised! :-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, no problem. The child is only about two months old but there are similarities with a wedding! :-)

docmac said...

Claudia I don't share lawers with anyone. I just recently learnt/learned this. Thanks Clarrie!

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

It is known that a child who has been used to being the baby/only child can become very unsettled when a younger sibling arrives. In this case, when only about 20 months she had to deal with the arrival of two. Sometimes that very unsettled behaviour exhibits in just the way described where the child will keep waking in the night to get in bed with the parents for attention. All the more reason why they would know it just could not be safe to leave Madeleine.

I recall earlier reports of Madeleine running off and hiding at bedtime as if very fearful of something. Could it be they drugged her to make sure she did not waken? Did they drug her that night and she again tried to run off but met with the accident falling into the flower bed? I also remember reports that one of he theories PJ was working on was that she sustained a nasty head injury on the steps. Perhaps we do need to put the evidence of sedation and blood together to consider what really happened to her.

I will never understand how the McCanns could have left her and the twins like this and go on television pleading their innocence, and continuing to make these bizarre abduction claims. We hear that two nights before Madeleine was crying for one and a quarter hours and then the night before Madeleine herself tells her "mother" that she and Sean were crying - they really do deserve custody for such wicked neglect, regardless of what else they did. I think it was Joe said above, the best thing they could have done to protect their own position was to say nothing, that is true!

docmac said...

Let's see if anybody gets that one ;-)

Cláudia said...

Doc, riddles?

Viv, the neglect is unbelievable. And the fact that Madeleine complained about being alone and Mrs Fenn's testemony make it even more disgusting, if that's possible. How could they? How dare they?

viv said...

If they had said nothing we would not have heard of Kate's excuses for the cadaver dog evidence, all the corpses she worked with, rotting meat and dirty nappies. She was shown videos of both dogs so could not seek to deny the evidence, so instead comes up with frankly unbelievable excuses for it. Then we had the announcement of tests done on Kate but no evidence of anti-depressants, the twins hair being tested and of course the hire care being tested after all the evidence had already been removed. By answering the claims made against them they validate that evidence rather than ignoring it. Really guilty people always act in this way, it is a dead give away, if you will forgive the pun x

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE X

docmac said...

Viv they drugged her because she suffered from somnambulism. At least that was one of the early stories they had the family put forward. And if it ever comes to light in a trial you can be sure those missing early video statements will be miraculously found!

docmac said...

No, Claudia. Lawers.

Cláudia said...

Doc, you're terrible! :-)

viv said...

Hiya Doc

One thing I am quite clear on they did drug her, when their own family say so, you just have to believe it, and Gerry's frankly terrible performance when directly asked if the children were drugged. Apart from Kate screwing her face up in mock anguish outside the church at PDL and saying "Please pray for her, she is lovely" I have never seen such terrible acting!

Saying she is lovely is a defence mechanism, isn't it? Kate needs to emphasise that they could not harm her because she is so lovely. The appeal was always there to the public for sympathy, for money, a genuine plea might have said, we just miss her terribly and are doing everything we can to help the police to find her, again, why do they not mention the police and the reward money, their guilty conscience and being put on the defensive because of what they did.

In short a couple of hopeless liars!

Viv x

docmac said...

Madeleine was truly lovely, of that I am sure. For the people to whom it should have mattered most it was not enough. The urge to be 'into' their friends was much more important. That's why I still worry about the twins. People like this don't change.

Are they liars? Yebo!!

Cláudia said...

Doc, exactly. Lovely but not enough to decide not to leave her by herself.

Cláudia said...

Boa noite, amigos.
Bed is calling and I have an early start tomorrow. I mean, today! :-)
xxxx

viv said...

Boa Noite minha amiga!

You have done some great work on the blog of late, keeping us all informed and for that we are all really grateful

Viv x

Cláudia said...

My pleasure, Viv. There's nothing to thank for. :-)

Dorme bem.
Beijinhos.

viv said...

Doc

Thanks for the link to the hilarious thread on 3 As again. The McCanns on holiday was again brilliantly funny and I would not be surprised if, wherever they are, that pariah went with them!

Viv x

docmac said...

Ja, goodnight both and all. My belly is full, I'm tired and my feet are cold (not as cold as Gerry's were though) so I'll be off to bed too. Sleep tight.

atardi said...

Thanks to everyone for today's posts.

If we keep silent there won't be JFM.

Read you all tomorrow.

bath theory said...

MCCann files reporting mail on sunday reporter article

'...A judicial source told the newspaper Correio da Manha: 'If it was a case of abduction, as the parents themselves argue, it was they who created the necessary conditions for that to take place.'

Last night, the McCanns' spokesman said: 'This is the first we have heard of this. Any charges would be vigorously contested...'

THE FIRST THEY HAVE HEARD THAT THEY WERE NEGLIGENT. Now that did make me laugh.

The very fact that they did not openly address this point from the beginning made me believe right away that they were not telling all they knew.

Once again, if you contrast their body language with other parents involved in traumatic situations like Rhys Jones' parents it is a no brainer.

hope4truth said...

Morning Bath

Thanks for the information it is astounding...

"THE FIRST THEY HAVE HEARD THAT THEY WERE NEGLIGENT"

Bloody hell you go out for a meal and a few drinks with your friends and when you get back one of your childen is missing and they dont think that was serious neglect???

The sad thing is even on the nights when they returned and all 3children were still there it was still serious neglect.

CM does them no favours as adults we have to take responsibility for our actions (it is what we teach our children to do be honest and if they do something wrong own up to it)..

Madeleine is missing GA says there is evidence she died in the apartment. If I really believed she had been abducted I would be pushing for every test in the world to let me know if my child had died (If I knew I had not killed her or she had not had an accident and was dead) I would be hysterical thinking an abducter killed her.

But nothing they know she was taken and it was nothing to do with them so why the hell are they making excuse after excuse for their neglect?

This is why I think they are lying I would never forgive myself if I was in the same situation....

Yes CM it was neglect in our law in Portuguise law and god help the pair of them if they had been in America and neglected them there they would be lucky to have the twins with them or be free to roam the streets.

Madeleine cried Sean cried as they woke and wanted their parents Madeleine tells Kate this and Gerry and Kate do the right thing and think about taking them with them. But no it is too much inconvincence so they dump them home alone again.

Sick twisted Neglect you cant spin that into a positive and why would you want to?

bath theory said...

Hi Hope

Do you think when it wwas reported that Kate had said 'They've taken her' she meant GM & maybe OB. That could explain why she did not go out that first night to search and why some reported in DX forum she had bruises on her as if she had been roughed up possibly.

Certainly the PJ think 6.00 to 8.00pm that night is critical and I think what they did that first night is as well.

'They've taken her' implies she knows who 'they' are. And also implies that she knew whether 'they' took a young girl full of life or a cadaver.

bath theory said...

The other point that tells us things are not right is this..

Can you remember a story where such publicity took place and yet the interview with the main police chief who states clearly 15 months on that the girl is dead and died that night was not even worthy of being shown on the main news here. That tells you that money can buy many things.

I may be wrong but I didn't see Amaral's words being shown at all let alone as the number1 news it deserved

Cláudia said...

Have a great day, everybody.
Off for a Christening!

marga said...

Diverte-te amiga!

BT

don't forget the court session is to take place tomorrow. It could be a drawback to release all the PT news re maddie's death.

After having looked at the picture of the apartment in the mccannfiles , I got confused about the scent of death in the flowerbed.

Do you know if it is in the back yeard or in the entrance leading to the Tapas?

Analysing the pictutes I think that Mrs Fenn's balcony is right over the parents' room where a scent of cadaver was also detected and could be easy for Mrs Fenn to hear Maddie crying. The accident could have happened there. Than the other scent is in the living- room and the last in the flowerbed of the back entrance?

marga said...

I remember posters commenting on a man that was seen there on the same evening whose appearance and clothing was associated to a British.

marga said...

In today's CM
translated by Astro.

Maddie Case - Final Report – ‘CM’ exclusively reveals all the steps of the investigation

English combined depositions

The Polícia Judiciária apprehended a memo that was typed by the McCanns and their friends, which describes in detail what each one of them did on the evening of the disappearance

Article by: Eduardo Dâmaso/Tânia Laranjo

The Polícia Judiciária calls it a “typed report”. It was appended to the process with the number 886 and elaborated by the English before they were formally questioned by the Polícia Judiciária from Portimão after Madeleine’s disappearance.

For the authorities, the minute manner in which the description was made reveals that the group of English people intended to “remember the steps that they made on that evening”. They described the facts, temporally and spatially, and those were the details that they revealed to the investigators.

Everything in an absolutely coherent form, closing the door to emotion. It is never explained, for example, how the group, that also had their children asleep in their rooms within the resort, never followed the instinct of confirming whether they were safe, after Kate launched the alert over her daughter’s disappearance. They came looking for Maddie, but failed to check if their own children had been abducted.

This document is considered important and was taken into account in the final report, whose contents CM reveals in an exclusive. It is fundamental as far as it has removed any spontaneity from the depositions made by the English, including the McCanns, whose description of the hours prior to the disappearance were fundamental for the investigation.

The final report contains a comprehensive description of the routines and of the last moments when Madeleine was seen alive, in order to clarify doubts and to try to overcome apparent incongruities.

Gerry McCann guarantees that on that day – and contrary to what was usual – failed to accompany his friends during the afternoon snack at the beach area. Only the McCanns returned to their apartment earlier, as confirmed by the surveillance cameras at the restaurant where the friends were.

The father assured that they collected their children at the crèche at around 5 p.m. and that on that day they immediately went to their lodging with the children. At 7.30 p.m. they put them to bed, and around 8.30 p.m. they left for the Tapas bar, which is located near the resort’s swimming pool.

Around 9 p.m., Gerry guarantees that he went to check on his children: but he failed to enter Madeleine’s bedroom and only later gave importance to the fact that the door was more open than he had left it. The alert to the little girl’s disappearance was given at approximately 10 p.m., and one hour later the GNR was informed about the event. The English guarantee that they only alerted BBC at around 2 a.m.

Passional crime was equated

Apart from abduction, the PJ followed other leads. One of them was the possibility that a passional crime had taken place. In the final report, the investigators remember that they studied the possibility that the abduction was due to a vengeance against the parents. Nothing was discovered in that sense either, despite the fact that the life of the McCanns and the other English people was investigated.

Details

Several interrogations – In their final report, the PJ stresses that the English were comprehensively questioned in detail, on several occasions, with the purpose of collecting all the elements that were deemed relevant.

Testing details - From the analysis of the interrogations, the PJ mentions in their final report that there were “important details that were not fully understood and integrated”, which, according to the PJ, needed to be “tested and connected on the location of the event”.

Four questions that remained unanswered

In its final report, the PJ lists the four questions that it would like to see answered during the reconstitution of the facts. A diligence that was not made because some of the English refused to return to Portugal.

The first one concerns the real and effective proximity between Jane Tanner, Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins (a witness that stood talking to Maddie’s father at around 9 p.m.). It is mentioned in the report that it is “unusual” that Gerry and Jeremy failed to see the alleged abductor that was seen by Tanner, given the fact that they were standing within the same small space.

Another question that the PJ wanted to clarify was the situation of the window to the bedroom where Maddie was sleeping. According to Kate, it was open, but it was important to verify whether there was a draft that would allow for the curtains to move.

The verification of the manner in which the children were checked upon also seemed important. If it was as intense as the witnesses stated, it made the entrance of an abductor almost impossible, who could only pass with the child in a vertical position, not a horizontal one, as Jane Tanner says she saw a man with a child.

Finally, the inspectors wanted to know exactly what happened between 5.30 p.m. and 10 p.m. – the time at which Maddie was seen last, and the moment when the alert to the disappearance was given.

Captions of photos:

Gonçalo Amaral tried the reconstitution shortly after the facts. Then it was Paulo Rebelo’s turn to suggest it. It was never done, because the English didn’t want it

Gerry and Kate’s versions failed to convince the investigators

Other notes:

PGR [State Prosecutor] | Read the report already – Pinto Monteiro said yesterday that he has already read the final report, but excused himself from advancing what will be the Public Ministry’s dispatch, in a case whose secrecy may end as soon as this month

Concluded | No diligences – The PJ makes no suggestions concerning the manner in which the Public Ministry should act. It only says that it does not see any further diligences that could be useful to the investigation

Nothing new | English

The PJ says that the diligences that were requested through a rogatory letter, brought nothing new to the investigation. Which means that what happened on the evening of the 3rd of May was not established


Source: paper edition of Correio da Manhã, July 6, 2008

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Good Morning Marga

Have you heard that British Lawyers are refusing to represent Mr Amaral in his attempts to sue British newspapers for libel?

marga said...

BT,
yes.And he has already prepared everything since months!

Unlike their laywers here that were eager to earn money and fame.

marga said...

*for

marga said...

Just want to add I don't believe CM had had access to the report.

Almost everything here is not new and the final report would have further more than this.

I'm off now.

Read you later.

Wizard said...

I’ve just been reading Joana Morais blog – according to her the sniffer dog’s findings of the scent of a cadaver on keys, Kate, soft toy, in the apartment and on one of Madeleine’s outfits is not admissible in a Portuguese court. So now we begin to see the problems the pj have with a prosecution. Blood found in the apartment and car is also not a 100% match. The pj do not believe K&G’s account of what happened and that, of course, can be easily understood why – nothing fits as it should.

The T7 has stuck together tight lipped – a pact. It is interesting to note the T7 went looking for Madeleine before checking whether their own children were alright and since Kate was saying someone had taken M this is very strange behaviour it’s almost as if they knew what was really going down and were part of a staging scenario.

We now know that Madeleine was seen by an independent witness at 5.30pm on the 3rd May. So her time of death would have been from 5.30pm to 10.00pm. As the scent of a cadaver was picked up by the dogs this can be narrowed down to between 5.30 and 8.00pm; half an hour before the McCann’s left for the tapis bar.

For a dog to detect the scent of death someone must have been dead for at least 2 hours. Gerry was certainly in the vicinity of apartment 5A at 9.15pm when he was seen by Jes Wilkins - had G just moved the body? If he had this would have placed the time of death between 5.30 & 7.15pm. Of course O’Brien was missing between 9.30 and 10.00 if he was involved this places a time of death between 5.30 and 9.30 or 10.00.

If Oldfield is to be believed Madeleine was alive at 6.30pm therefore he is either lying or she died shortly after he left with Kate’s involvement or when Gerry returned at 7.00. No wonder the police do not believe what K&G say for the scent of a cadaver to be present means M was dead before her parents went to the T9 and they would have both been fully aware of the situation.

hope4truth said...

Bath

Hi yes it was a strange thing to say theyve taken her? Who knows what you would say in that situation but I am pretty sure it would be Madeleines gone and then a flurry of activity while everyone searches for her until the horrible realisation that she was really missing?

Much to quick to conclude that she had been taken and although someone would have to stay with the twins both of them did not have to searching would be a natural instinct.

I wont watch GMTV again the reporting last week that the case was to be arcived which was good news for G&K (when surley the only good news would be she had been found alive and well enjoying a fun time with a mixed up lady who cant have children) and not a mention of GA let's face it in any other story the papers and TV would not be able to wait before breaking a big story like that after all it is not them saying she died in the apartment it is GA he was investigating and knows what is on file...

Obviously the media and some of the general public have no time for a silly 3 year old child getting herself abducted while her parents enjoyed a well deserved bit of me time in the bar with their pathetic friends.

They did not neglect Madeleine she was more than capeable of babysitting the twins and fighting of an abductor and had the apartment gone up in flames it would have been her fault for not getting the twins to saftey.

I have lost patience with the idiots that really dont give a damn about that beautiful little girl and just want to excuse her parents as they have lost her.

I give up the same people who defend her parents probebly support the NSPCC and would be outraged if they read about a poor little girl being left alone night after night and would applaud that she is now in care....

Madeleine is the only victim (the twins are victims of neglect) but the parents are guilty of neglect who the hell does CM think he is to say they are not? They dont need to go on trial to be found guilty of neglect they have admitted going out and leaving them...

hope4truth said...

Marga

Thanks for your earlier post the bellow paragraph is something I had not thought of before...

Everything in an absolutely coherent form, closing the door to emotion. It is never explained, for example, how the group, that also had their children asleep in their rooms within the resort, never followed the instinct of confirming whether they were safe, after Kate launched the alert over her daughter’s disappearance. They came looking for Maddie, but failed to check if their own children had been abducted.

I had never thought about what the others did when Kate raised the alarm but going and making sure your child was safe would surley have been a priority...

Up until reading that I did not think all of them were involved or knew they were lying my view has just shifted...

Joe said...

Several things bother me about this case. 1) The FSS withdrawing their initial findings. WHY?. 2) The McCanns not being questioned in April 2008, as they were the prime suspects, not even an attempt by the PJ, even if they refused to answer questions. 3) The phone data not admissible as evidence.4) The failure to question the Irish guy Smith, who allegedly saw McCann that fateful night. 5) The important witness that Mr.Amaral stated never showed up, are jus t some of the things that stand out.


It appears to me that at every significant stage there has been intervention, thus leading to a pointless investigation, as Mr Amaral stated, to be shelved from the start. Too many coincidences again for my liking. Off to watch the tennis now.

docmac said...

Any of you seen this (from 3A)? Kate McCann to Lori Campbell of the Sunday Mirror on Arguido day:

"Breaking down in tears, distraught Kate said of the Portuguese police: "They want me to lie - I'm being framed.

"Police don't want a murder in Portugal and all the publicity about them not having paedophile laws here, so they're blaming us."

Zodiac said...

Hi all,

Just off to read back posts.

Claudia,

Barbie Doll, I gave up reading after 'best fun ever' what a no brainer mother she is.


Atardi,

Your words:

'My children wanted to have influence on the clothes they had to wear at the age of 3. And sometimes I found the clothes (the combination) awful but it was their choice.'

Brought back many happy memories for me. That is what childhood is all about, not for some parents to use their children as trophies and make money from them due to their own inadeqaucy.

Wizard said...

Looking at my 11.17 post I see that I should have said the cadaver smell was on Madeleine’s day clothes, therefore, if G&K say the kids were put to bed at 7.30pm Madeleine would have already been dead. This reduces the time of death to between 5.30 and 7.30. One and a half hours of this time Kate would have been on her own with the kids and half an hour of that time Gerry would have been with her.

The cadaver odour was only found in the McCanns apartment: - in the parent’s room, the living room and next to a side window. This makes sense as Madeleine would have been kept away from the twins. I note that no blood was found on Madeleine’s days clothes so this appears to rules out a number of speculated causes of death. I think a reaction to sedation could be ruled out as well as she died before her bath and before bedtime. For the odour of death to be on her day cloths means she was wearing them for two hours after her death and presumably when an abduction plan was hatched she was then changed into her pyjamas and removed from the apartment before Kate raised the alarm.

hope4truth said...

I blame Kate and Gerry McCann for whatever happend to their daughter if they had been acting as parents should instead of single carefree people she would not have been taken.

If she died due to an accident why cover it up? If it was because they were not there when she had that accident then they know that leaving the children was wrong but they still spin we did not neglect them line and it was reasnoble parenting.

They cant have it every way if she died in the apartment the only reason to cover it up would be she had something in her system she should not have had. One of them killed her or they do know that neglect is wrong and although they will lie through their teeth to say it is not wrong belive themselves that it is...

If she really was abducted then the crap about we wish we had been with her when she was taken shows what a sorry pair they are as if they had been where they should have been she would not have been taken.

Peadophile registers may protect some chidren but peadophiles are very secrative people who are very clever not to get caught so most of the scum never get a criminal record in the first place.

If she was taken the sick bastard that took her had no right to take her but when Mummy and Daddy are laughing it up in the bar and leave the door unlocked they are guilty of serious neglect.

I hope this ends very soon child welfare is important and these two are knocking the progress made by childrens charity's back years by spouting off about being fitted up.

Who were the 6 dead bodies that Kate visited in the week before she went on holiday? That must be easy to check.

I would also like to know what the questions were Kate refused to answer.

Your child is missing and the police wish to interview you why not answer the damn questions? Then why not search for her instead of jogging and doing it in such a good time... Pathetic

Wizard said...

Does anyone know if K & G are on holiday at the moment? Do we know if they intend to be present in court tomorrow or is it something that their lawyers present and argue on their behalf?

Wizard said...

Hi Hope,

I was just reading you last post. Do you not believe the results of the sniffer dogs? To me their finding tell us Madeleine was dead by 8.00pm on 3rd May, therefore, one or both of the McCanns would have been with her when she died.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Wizard

According to the Mirror yesterday K & G are on holiday and won't be in court.

See Zodiac
Saturday, 5 July 2008 09:53:00 o'clock BST

This Thread

viv said...

Hiya all

The hearing is listed for an application which can be made without the clients being present. However, if there was real merit in the application, seeing and hearing Kate and Gerry McCann would have a powerful influence on the judge in her decision making. For tactical reasons it has clearly been decided they should not be present, in the same way they were not present in their libel case against Express Newspapers. In both instances, it could be argued that if these issues were really important to Kate and Gerry then there is simply no way they would not attend court, they know that their presence would not in fact do anything to persuade the judge and it is better to allow lawyers to argue the matter on a technical basis.

hope4truth said...

Hi Wizard

Yes it looks like one of them would have been with her (if it needs to 2 hours before the scent can be detected)...

I am just becoming more and more outraged at this sad sad story being about the poor parents.

Poor Madeleine no one else counts the second they decided the holiday was about them they showed their prioritys were about them they started to let their children down.

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

I do not think that it is right to say that a body has to be in contact with something such as clothes for at least two hours to exude the death scent. I think the point is that a body does not exude that chemical odour at all until at least two hours after death which proves that Madeleine was dead when they went out.

I also do not think it can be right that they have Madeleine's day clothes with death scent on. This would mean that they killed her but then took those clothes off her. If the police actually had her clothing that she died in I think it is highly likely the McCanns would have been immediately arrested. The reports confirm they have Kate's clothing with death scent on and cuddle cat, it does not mean that Kate nursed Madeleine for two hours to get this scent on her, merely that the body must have been at least two hours old when she did have contact. When you look at it this way you can start to understand the difficulties the police have, but I believe there is a German witness who will say he saw Kate go back to the apartment well before 10 pm, clearly it is then she could have been in contact with Madeleine's corpse and picked up that odour. When she went back again at 10 Gerry and Co had removed the body and she screamed "they have taken her". I think he just all came out at that point and she was hysterical, as the nanny pointed out in a far worse condition to parents who just lost their child, who are normally calm, adrenaline making them swing into action to save their child, rather than going hysterical, the reaction of a parent who knows she is already dead and she cannot cuddle her anymore because she is gone.

docmac said...

Seen this article yet? Sound familiar? I see she slipped in the 'vile' word too. Hmmm...

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

Correio da manha were reporting yesterday that the smell of a cadaver was found on Kate and Madeleine’s clothes. Madeleine’s clothes must have been day clothes as she was suppose to be taken from her bed in pyjamas. However Correio da manha’s could be indulging in creative journalism.

Kate tells us she came into contact with 6 corpses in the week prior to her holiday. (Kate’s explanation sounds very unlikely to me but something that could easily be checked out -we haven’t heard whether this is true or not) What is the likelihood do you think she would only transfer the odour of a corpse onto selected items and selected places in a room? I understand the findings of the dogs are not admissible in a Portuguese court, but if they were do you think legally the McCanns defence could argue successfully that the odour was transferred by Kate’s clothing. I suppose as Kate says she was in contact with six corpses it would be reasonable to suppose this contact was on separate days, therefore, she took only two items of clothing she wore to work with her on holiday.

If the 6 corpses prior to the holiday are true - doubt could be thrown on the findings of the dogs. I suppose their findings must be looked at in light of what else forensically was found.

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

I have seen one report where it mentioned the cadaver smell on a piece or fragment of Madeleine's clothing suggesting perhaps that in the clean up, the McCanns missed one little shred or perhaps this was just a tiny trace that was swept up because the dogs found it, otherwise not visible to the eye.

I think the suggestion Kate could have come into contact with 6 corpses as a two day a week locum is ludicrous, as is the suggestion that she just happened to be wearing that same pair of holiday jeans and tee shirt on each and every occasion! What throws these findings is not this absurd claim but that in Portugal the dogs evidence is only available to advance a police line of enquiry, it is not admissible evidence in court, but in the UK it is! Even so, this would insufficient to mount a successful prosecution. The police have always been in the situation where they know Madeleine died at the scene, but it is the how, when, what, who they need to prove to mount a successful prosecution. I still believe the chances are Leicester Police will run with this case and sooner or later will bring them to court. This is why the McCanns are now acting in an adversarial role against Leicester Police to find out what they have.

Joe said...

If the LP were to bring a case against the McCanns then they should IMO question them asap. It is a British child that is missing and I do not really know how much cross cooperation there really is between the PJ and LP. Whether the LP are/were only assisting the PJ or whether there is an independent case being conducted by the LP re the clan. It is disgraceful to think that hard evidence cannot be used in PT but can in the UK. Surely it is the duty of the Police to act IF a crime is suspected?

dylan said...

Hi all,

Flying visit. I see there has been much discussion about the two hour "development time" of the cadaver scent.

The only possibility I can think of (and this is only speculation not an accusation!) is that maybe sedatives were administered fairly early on in the evening. I don't know how long they take to work, but if a guarantee of children being asleep is required (especially if the children were heard crying the night before and the night before that), then it is possible that the thought was to sedate early on. IF this were the case, and IF a child had a severe adverse reaction to the drug, Docmac has already confirmed that it is possible that emergency medical proceedure to counteract this COULD cause certain injuries.

I cannot think how else, or why else, a cover-up would be needed if an accident happened whilst the parents were still there and not out on thier neglectful jollies and if nothing had been administered for unlawful reasons, albeit, lawful drugs.

On the same tack, I don't think it possible that the cadaver scent was found in, what could be called "cherry picked" sites for investigative officers, if it weren't there for sinister reasons. The 6 dead bodies thing is just plain daft. So, 6 bodies before the holiday and the scent only made it to clothing, key fob etc., etc., but nowhere else? What rubbish!

Goodnight folks, may pop in tomorrow.

xx

bath theory said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bath theory said...

Just off to work , being reported here on news channels that the McCann's will be appearing in court today.

I am assuming as spectators in court as the barristers argue over technical points but it was left open in the way it was announced in the news.

Cláudia said...

I hope they are allowed to see the info. But only information related to 'leads' and 'sightings'. The sooner they get it, they sooner their private investigators will be made to look like complete a** holes. If they are so competent, I'm sure they will bring Madeleine back in a couple of hours, safe and sound, right? (Not!).

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