8 May 2008

WHAT A DIFFERENCE BEING AN ARGUIDO MAKES - THE CAMERA NEVER LIES..DOES IT?

Penelope sent me this shot of Madeleine and I agree it certainly looks like a more recent one, before their holiday. The fringe has had to be pushed to one side as in the tennis balls pic below to stop it from going into her eyes. Whereas in the one that Gerry produced three weeks after she disappeared after a home visit, she looks far better groomed with her hair cut into a neat bob and much shorter. My eldest son is not interested in this case but was here this afternoon 10/5 and I asked him to comment on the two pics below without prompting him. He said it looks like the same child but the one on the left looks much younger, I think this is what we all see. Gerry went home to get a suitable image to photoshop into the holiday pic that was taken of him and Amelie. He did not want to use the tennis balls pic, because she does not look quite so cute, it could not have been photoshopped to fit into the pic he had in mind (look what a nice happy family we are) and Madeleine not only looks less well cared for, she has nasty bruising on her wrist. WE were told the delay in producing this pic was because Kate had got the time wrong on the camera, well what difference would that make when you need to rush out an up to date picture of your child, and why did she need to change the time when Portugal has UK time anyway..WE waited three weeks for this, come, come Gerry we waited till you made a trip home. I have read on 3 Arguidos intricate details about reflections in his sunglasses, I think it is a lot simpler than that, does Madeleine actually look the same as genuine photos when aged almost four, getting on the plane, holding the tennis balls, in her football top, is her hair not much blonder and shorter..in the so called last pic of her this is Madeleine aged 3, not almost four.


In what looks like the only recent picture they had of Madeleine prior to going on holiday she looks so sad, like something is really worrying her, note how long her hair is, just like the tennis balls pic. What on earth happened in this little girl's life to transform her from the happy little child she clearly was, when she was younger, the pictures the McCanns want to show us...


Above is another genuine picture of Madeleine in PDL sent to me by Penelope, again demonstrating her hair is darker and longer than the supposed last pic of her below. I believe that when Gerry went home for two days, three weeks after Madeleine's disappearance he photoshopped Madeleine into the poolside pic and then two days after his return to PDL released it proclaiming it was the last pic of Madeleine...she looks so angelic and cute (very marketable) and I believe was aged 3, not almost 4 ...perhaps a shot from a holiday abroad the previous year. WE have been bombarded with pictures of Madeleine when she was a lot younger. See also the genuine shots below of the tennis balls pic and Maddie getting onto the plane, again showing darker, longer hair...an older child aged almost 4. Gerry had dug himself and impossibly deep hole to try and climb out of and should give up!























Mr Alex Woolfall says in a report in The Times he helped the McCanns upload pics off their camera which included the famous tennis balls pic which is undoubtedly a genuine pic of Maddie on that holiday and I would say the last one of her. Above there are also pics of Maddie getting on the plane and again it can be seen her hair is really dark. Three weeks later and following a 2 days trip home Gerry McCann produced the poolside pic and claimed this was the last pic of Madeleine. Not only does she look a lot younger her hair is blond - I believe this picture is most definitely a fake. Quite likely a genuine pic of Gerry and Amelie but he has included an image of Madeleine from the previous year when he went home. On the tennis balls pic Maddie has a nasty bruise on her arm - is this why he does not wish to admit this was the last pic of her - would we have ever seen this pic if it had not been for Mr Woolfall?





What a difference being ARGUIDOS makes...desperate..hopeless..the end of the road.. reality starts to dawn? Why did they think they could get away with it? Did they really believe the Portuguese Police are the "Keystone Cops"..well more fool them..My compliments to the new boss of the PJ and commiserations with Clarence Mitchell for a truly hopeless and utterly sickening and despicable "campaign". In the bottom pic you can almost read Gerry's mind .."see I told you I could fix it, didn't I...now you believe how rich and happy we are going to be, don't you?" He clearly believed it when he stood like a child in a sweet shop, outside the Whitehouse too but then we saw the look of pure rage..look right! Judging by the look on her face above, she does not look any too convinced..not now anyway. The camera never lies unless of course Gerry did a home trip..to produce the last pic of Madeleine, three weeks later..all part of his cunning "masterplan". What a foolish narcissist he is with his grandiose schemes, only the narcissist himself truly believes that he can carry them through.


















Hi All, the article below confirms the PJ's continuing wish to stage a reconstruction with the presence of Kate, Gerry and the other "protagonists" but a European Arrest Warrant could not be issued to compel them to attend. This could only be issued for their actual arrest upon a decision to charge. John McCann says they want to know what the point of it would be, well the point is they have always said they will co-operate with the police and they want their daughter back! If they are not happy with the investigation then surely "reconstituting the facts" could allow their own claims to be re-considered, if their is any valid claim there of course, we have to assume there is not, given their continuing blatant refusal to co-operate. Their Portuguese lawyer, Rogerio Alves, seems to be at odds with the couple by continuing to state they will attend and co-operate. Clearly he realises the inferences that will be drawn against them, should they fail to do so.

Prior to resigning Mr Ribeiro stated the PJ continue to investigate and nothing is certain as to whether the couple will be indicted (charged) or not. Now Dr Rebelo has the support of another police officer I feel confident his hands will no longer be tied.

At a mass held at the local Church in PDL the McCanns, via Gerry's sister Pat, asked God for their daughter back. She is in his care and clearly cannot be physically re-claimed from wherever they dumped her. The report flags up the McCanns only offer a message of support to the locals a full eight months after they fled without any personal word of thanks to any of them. I notice that Philomena was not one of the family representatives..John McCann took the opportunity to publicise the new telephone number asking for all police witnesses to contact them. Somehow this seems to reflect what the family's visit to PDL was all about, getting to the locals to try and discredit the police case, put on a media show and see what further manipulative steps they can take to exculpate themselves. I hope that locals in PDL are no longer as trusting towards this couple and remember secrecy of justice. I found John McCann's excuses for Kate and Gerry not being there quite appalling, all the media interviews have left them exhausted and wanting to spend time with their children. Well why did they do all those media interviews and is Madeleine no longer one of their children? At least he tacitly accepts the McCanns also still neglect their other two children. There is no reason why they could not have also travelled to PDL.

Kate and Gerry stayed at home with friends on the anniversary...at a local ceremony Kate implored people to "pray like crazy for Madeleine". I do wonder at this woman's sanity. At no stage are we ever told that Kate is spending time with her parents. I believe there is disharmony here and wonder what responsibility her parents have for the daughter they raised. There is overwhelming evidence that children grow up to be the product of their upbringing.

John McCann admits that the fund total amounts to almost one million pounds..what are the McCanns going to do with all this money? I think it would be best they save a lot of it to repay the Daily Express..because at the end of the day, just like Lord Archer, they may well be asking for it back, plus interest!

Given we have this new contact telephone number can we take it Metodo 3 have now been quietly dropped but we did not get to hear this from the McCann media circus?

When asked about Madeleine's fifth birthday Pat Cameron burst into tears..it seems she feels the terrible pain and anguish of knowing another milestone in little Madeleine's life will never be reached, unlike her parents. No doubt there are other reasons for her tears also.

Gerry continues to rant on his blog that he knows nothing of the progress of the investigation. I remember a comment he made in PDL that he wanted to stay and influence and control the investigation..now he wants to stay as far away as possible from that investigation. Things have changed in his own mind. His natural instinct is to control and he feels invincible. Now he is a very worried man and an angry one, being in control is very important to Gerry McCann and his sense of well-being. Don't spend that money all at once, Gerry.


Viv x





May 04 2008 - 12.30 Procedure: Law does not require spouses to return PJ still considering rebuilding night of May 3 The reconstitution of the evening on May 3, 2007 at the Ocean Club with the participation of the couple McCann and friends who spent holidays with them in Praia da Luz, is to be done. The Judiciary Police has launched the idea in April in Leicestershire during the interrogations to friends and a Portuguese Advocates of the couple said that Kate and Gerry are available to return to Portugal. Ultimately, the completion of the investigation depends on the will of the protagonists. The director of the National Judicial Police said yesterday that it is' very important 'the presence of the couple in a possible reconstitution of the disappearance of Madeleine. 'If steps were taken to justify the presence of parents in Portugal would be very important that they accept such participation within the law Portuguese' said Alípio Ribeiro. The lawyer and former bastonário Rogerio Alves, who represents the McCann in Portugal, ensures that the couple is willing to work, but adds that the restoration involves more people, which will also own free will. John McCann, brother of Gerry, said yesterday not see utility in a reconstitution of the facts a year later. But said at a press conference in Praia da Luz that 'if someone convince Kate and Gerry that will be useful they will come [to Portugal]'. The fact is that the recovery depends on the will of McCann. judicial sources contacted by CM advanced that 'for conducting a due diligence you can not go arrest warrants valid abroad. " And an arrest warrant would, in the opinion of the same sources, the only way to reclaim the presence of McCann in Portugal for the possible reconstitution. Hardly PJconseguirá to carry out the restoration, but the investigation is not closed. 'The Judicial Police continues to collect and analyze all the evidence that may exist', said yesterday Alípio Ribeiro. The national director of PJ added that 'nothing is certain at this time regarding a possible indictment or dismissal "of the process.

LIDA Mass MESSAGE DURING THE BEACH OF LIGHT Patricia Cameron, sister of Gerry, read a message from the parents of Madeleine during the bilingual Mass held at the end of the afternoon yesterday in Praia da Luz After the ceremony, Patricia, Sandy, John McCann and Michael Wright launched green and yellow balloons in the lobby of the Church of Our Lady of Luz 'In the days after the abduction you all were in a rock where agarrámos. Your strength was our support. " Começava so the message signed by Kate, Gerry, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie, read by Patricia during the Mass on the first anniversary of the disappearance of Maddie. 'We want to publicly acknowledge gratitude ", wrote the McCann. 'We still full of confidence and ask God that our beloved daughter back. The journey to this day will be easier to feel you on our side. " The message of thanks comes eight months after a hasty departure for England which was commented by many in Praia da Luz displeasure with the lack of a word of recognition of the support given to the couple by the local community. At the Mass, priests led by Jose Pacheco and Haynes Hubbard, prayed to by Maddie but also by Rui Pedro and all missing children. Then there was a passage of slides with images of Madeleine and banda sound. John McCann protagonizou a symbol of hope to circulate a círio paschal candles lighting up the present. In the end the McCann family have launched balloons outside the church, under a rescue of palms.

'WE ARE HERE FOR PEOPLE TO AGRADECER' John McCann, brother of Gerry and administrator of the fund Find Madeleine, Patricia Cameron, sister of Gerry, her husband Sandy and Michael Wright, cousin of Kate, were yesterday in Praia da Luz, where he gave a press conference to "thank the people in Portugal who supported the family in difficult times. " John McCann took yet to disclose a telephone number to collect information (08458384699). 'Please help us. We are ordinary people, but we need to support unusual. " The brother of Gerry reaffirmed that the family still retains the hope that Madeleine is alive and that could be recovered.

KATE AND GERRY PASSAM DAY IN ROTHLEY Kate and Gerry McCann passed on the first anniversary of the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine 'with [the children twins] Sean and Amelie and a group of friends arrived at home' in Rothley, said John McCann, brother of Gerry. The couple arrived to attend a short religious ceremony in the Anglican church near his residence. During the ceremony, Kate read a message of support to the community and asked the congregation to continue to pray, 'pray like crazy' by Maddie.

'In ideal circumstances,' said John McCann, the couple had travelled to Praia da Luz, but the hectic week in commitments to the media has left them tired and with desire to be with their children. 'It was not an easy decision', stressed John McCann, but the choice of refuge family overlapped to the return to a place that "has involved much pain."


CAN BE AS DESCUBRA' The Attorney-General of the Republic said yesterday that a possible failure in the case Madd ie must not ashamed to Portuguese police. "Our police made what would be no police. You may discover that even if we will wait until the end. But if it results in failure, is nothing that envergonhe the Portuguese police, 'said Pinto Monteiro. The magistrate stressed that England has one thousand such cases and that the success rate is 20 percent.

DETAILS A MILLION The fund established by McCann has a balance of 850 thousand pounds, equivalent to around one million euros. The number was yesterday raised by administrator John McCann.

BRACELETS AND PINS Patricia Cameron distributed yesterday in Praia da Luz yellow bracelets and pins depicting the search for Madeleine. The same objects were distributed within the church of the village. The purpose of family is recover the momentum of hope. In recent days there was an increase of traffic on the site of the family background and the phone number for information.

ASSOCIATION One element of the National Association of Missing Children participated in the Mass yesterday in Praia da Luz and read the claim by 'Madeleine, Rui Pedro and all missing persons'.

ANNIVERSARY The date of the fifth anniversary of the Madeleine is here eight days. When questioned yesterday about the family plans to mark the moment, the aunt Patricia Cameron discarded up in tears, not advance any plans, saying only that one day will be very difficult. VIDENTE Connie Sonne, visionary Danish, was yesterday in Praia da Luz She says that Maddie is alive and in Portugal, detailing who in December was in Esmoriz. It argues that parents are involved in the disappearance and that 'everything is a question of money. " NOTES DAY OF EMOTION AND LÁGRIMAS The Praia da Luz was yesterday the scene of emotions. In addition to tears, many messages. More visible with a doll representing the Madeleine church COMPLAINT TO KNOW NOTHING OF In the blog Gerry regrets the fact that both he as Kate does not know what has been done and what remained to be done during the investigation THE YEAR LONGER Gerry describes the period without his daughter as "the longest years of our lives' and says that Maddie is still part of the lives of twins NEW HOME IN THE BLOG Gerry McCann pointed out yesterday in his blog the first anniversary of the disappearance of her daughter, who qualifies as' crime '

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viv said...

I thought details of the cast was very helpful from:

http://www.truthformadeleine.com/the_cast.htm

~Quite amusing really that loud mouthed Philomena was never allowed to speak again after she told such a demonstrable lie on ~TV in September 2007 - that Kate had been offered a deal etc by PJ. Do they think John McCann, Clarence Mitchell etc are better liars?

I did not realise that John McCann accompanied them on the trip to Huelva until reading this and, as pointed out, that was a notable exception in Panorama ( among others!)

Viv x

Madeleine McCann Missing 4 Year Old Girl


Madeleine Beth McCann is the little 4 year old girl who the case is all about. As she approached her 4th birthday, she spent the best part of a week on holiday with her parents and twin brother and sister Sean & Amelie. According to her parents, she was abducted by abductors in the evening of May 3, 2007 while they dined at the Tapas Bar at the Ocean Club Resort where they were staying. Madeleine has a prominent eye defect known as a coloboma in her right eye. It can be clearly seen on this photograph. The eye defect was immediately turned into a registered trademark and logo and was part of the "official" Find Madeleine campaign led by the McCann family and paid PR team.


Gerry McCann Madeleine's Father


Dr Gerald Patrick McCann is Madeleine's father. He works at Glenfield Hospital in Leicestershire as a consultant cardiologist. Mr McCann, like his wife, has rarely shown any emotions in the numerous TV interviews and public appearances. Some reports say that he went for a haircut on May 4 and went jogging on the beach in Praia da Luz, less than 24 hours after his daughter went missing. Some of Mr McCanns movements in the weeks after May 3 came under the spotlight because of several reported inconsistencies. The PJ have been investigating many of Mr McCann's actions including sending 14 text messages in the hours before Madeleine was reported missing.


Kate McCann Madeleine's Mother


Dr Katherine Marie McCann. Madeleine's mother was born in Liverpool and works as a part time General Practitioner. Since returning to England from Portugal after being made a suspect in the disappearance of her daughter Madeleine, Mrs. McCann has not returned to work. The PJ were interested in Kate's relationship with Madeleine after some stories were revealed that said Madeleine was often crying for up to 18 hours a day. The journal Kate created while in Portugal was allegedly seized as part of the investigation. A key factor in this case has always been the fact that Kate has not shown much emotion and has barely shed a tear in public or in front of the cameras.


John McCann Gerry's Brother & Madeleine's Uncle


John McCann is Gerry's brother and is a medical sales rep for AstraZeneca. He lives in Scotland and is one of the company directors for Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd. John accompanied Gerry, Kate and Jon Corner on the trip to Huelva in Spain. This fact was not highlighted on the Panorama documentary.


Philomena McCann Gerry's Sister & Madeleine's Aunt


Philomena McCann (Affectionately known as Auntie Phil) is Gerry's sister. In the weeks after May 3, Phil was very actively involved in promoting events in conjunction with advertising and keeping Madeleine in the public spotlight. After Kate and Gerry were brought in for questioning, Philomena did a TV interview where she said that Kate had been offered a plea deal in return for saying she accidentally killed Madeleine. This was found to be untrue and since that TV appearance in September, Philomena has kept out of the media spotlight although she has done another interview with a German newspaper.


Sandy Cameron Gerry's Brother in-law & Madeleine's Uncle


Sandy Cameron is married to Patricia - Gerry's sister. He is also one of Madeleine's Godparents.


Patricia Cameron Gerry's Sister & Madeleine's Aunt


Patricia Cameron is Gerry McCann's sister also known as "Trish" in Gerry's blogs. Gerry writes about Madeleine's Godparents Trish and Sandy. It is understood that Trish and Sandy stayed in Portugal to look after the twins when Kate and Gerry were travelling around Europe in the weeks following Madeleine's disappearance.


Brian Healy Kate's Father & Madeleine's Grandfather


On September 10th, Mr. Healy, from Mossley Hill, Liverpool, spoke to Kate soon after she arrived back at the family home in Rothley. He said: “Kate said it was very hard going back into the house without Madeleine. She is being strong but is down because they are coming back without Madeleine.



Susan Healy Kate's Mother & Madeleine's Grandmother


On October 16th, the Liverpool Echo published this story:

Susan & Brian Healy today hit out at the “scurrilous rubbish” being printed about their daughter – and said she feels she is being persecuted because of her appearance. “She said last night ‘If I weighed another two stone, had a bigger bosom and looked more maternal, people would be more sympathetic’,” Madeleine’s grandmother, Susan Healy, told the ECHO today.



Brian Kennedy Kate's Great Uncle & Madeleine Fund Director


Mr Brian Kennedy is Kate's great uncle. He lives in Rothley and is also a member of the Madeleine Fund's board of directors. A former school teacher, Mr. Kennedy has rarely been in the media.



"The Tapas 7"
Jane Tanner Russell O'Brien's Partner

Jane Tanner has become the most controversial of the McCann's friends who dined with them on the night of May 3. Jane Tanner came up with the only known sighting of a possible abductor although her credibility is called into question. Several weeks after May 3 she revealed details of the "Egg-man" abductor and after many months, she changed her description to a more detailed "Bundle-man". Read the abduction theory to see how Ms Tanner's story has been called into question by many people following the case.


Russell O'Brien Jane Tanner's Partner

Dr. O'Brien is the friend of the McCanns who is said to have checked on his own children on the night of May 3 and found one of them vomiting. Allegedly he is said to have asked for a change of bed linens from the resort housekeeping but they say no such request was made that night.


Matthew Oldfield Endocrinologist Married to Rachael

Dr Matthew Oldfield, 37. An endocrinologist at Kingston Hospital Surrey, he worked with Gerry McCann in Leicester before moving to London with his wife Rachael. He checked on the McCann children at 9.30pm, but did not look to see if Madeleine was in her bed.



Rachael Oldfield Recruitment Consultant Married to Matthew

Rachael Oldfield, 36. Recruitment-consultant, mother of a 22-month-old daughter and ex Corporate Tax Lawyer. She spoke for the first time in Aug 2007 to dismiss "hurtful and ludicrous'' reports which suggested police had intercepted phone calls and emails between the McCanns and their friends which contradicted earlier statements they had given. She said: "They are throwing mud and we are not able to defend ourselves." Admitted as a solicitor in November 1996. With Richards Butler for 6 years and Blake Dawson Waldron, Melbourne for 18 months. Spent time in retail and Polo Ralph Lauren and John Lewis before entering the world of recruitment. Rachael's maiden name is Mampilly.


David Payne Fiona Payne's Husband

David Payne 41, is a surgeon at Leicester Royal Infirmary, specialising in strokes. He helped run the Find Madeleine campaign. Speaking of Madeleine's disappearance, he spoke for the first time to say: "We know they didn't do it. One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but didn't in our worst nightmare think it would be this."



Fiona Payne Doctor & Wife of David Payne

Dr Fiona Payne, 34. The mother of two and her husband are the only couple in the group reported to have used a baby monitor that night. The Payne's stayed in the Algarve to support the McCann's after Madeleine's disappearance.



Dianne Webster Fiona Payne's Mother

Dianne Webster is Fiona Payne's mother. She told police that on the night of Madeleine's disappearance each couple was responsible for looking after their own children. She has given no interviews. Allegedly she stayed at the Tapas Restaurant when everyone else ran back to apartment 5A although there are many versions of what actually happened on the night of May 3.




Polícia Judiciária
Paulo Rebelo Chief Investigator for the PJ & Assistant National Director

45 year old Mr. Rebelo was drafted in to the investigation on October 8th in place of the first detective Mr Amaral. An expert in cases involving paedophiles and homicide, Mr. Rebelo breathed new life in the case with a "root and branch" investigation. He was head of the criminal investigation department in Lisbon which uncovered the notorious 'Casa Pia' paedophile ring in 2002.


Alipio Ribeiro Polícia Judiciária National Director

The Daily Mail reported on the 11th October "Portugal's top police officer (Alipio Ribeiro) insisted today that Kate and Gerry McCann are still the main suspects in the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine.


Gonçalo Amaral Chief Inspector & First Investigating Officer

Mr Amaral was in charge of the investigation from May 3 up to the time when Mr. Rebelo replaced him. Mr. Amaral was himself subject to an internal investigation following another missing child case. Always controversial, Gonçalo Amaral had said that by following the couple’s tips, the British investigators were continuously “forgetting the fact that they are prime suspects of their daughter’s death," adding that the kidnapping scenario now being explored was nothing more than "another fact worked by the McCanns." It remains unclear whether Mr. Amaral was replaced for tactical reasons or for political reasons.


Olegário de Sousa Chief Inspector & Portuguese Police Spokesman

Chief Inspector, Olegário de Sousa became the most media face of the PJ, during Kate and Gerry's time in Portugal, through his role as the official Polícia Judiciária spokesperson. Sky News reporter Martin Brunt incorrectly reported that Mr. de Sousa had been removed from the job in the same week that Brunt claimed a 100% DNA match of body fluids in the Renault Scenic to Madeleine McCann.


Carlos Anjos Head of the Portuguese Police Federation

When interviewed by Portuguese newspaper Diário de Notícias, he accused Gerry McCann of "negligence" when he claimed that Madeleine’s abductor was hiding in their holiday apartment. "If he was suspicious that there was a man in the apartment, and then he calmly went to dinner, then words cannot describe how negligent he is as a father", adding "Since their daughter disappeared, Gerry and Kate have followed a strategy of almost daily announcements of new facts."


Alberto Costa Portuguese Minister of Justice

The Portuguese Justice Minister, Alberto Costa, had to step in publicly to assure all parties that the relationship between the Portuguese and British police forces working on the Madeleine McCann case was still strong and of "beneficial co-operation."

lizzy said...

HI Viv,
Interesting article and couldn't agree more re the camera, in that pic Kate looks like game is up and Gerry look as if he is scheming.Quite different pictures earlier on when there was no mention or idea of them being suspects, then the pics showed them laughing seemingly carefree.Which is odd considering they had lost their daughter. I hope now the Pj have a new Director there may be more chance of justice being done and the political interference may not have as much impact.Off to work now will pop back later,hope you have a nice day...Lizzy

Penelope said...

Ecolab,

I tried to post this last night, in reply to your analysis of the "poolside" photo, but my inernet connection went down. Here it is in any case:

Ecolab,

Just read your recent post re: analysis of the photo beside the pool.

I think the very fact that Gerry had to go all the way to England to get a "family photo" (minus Mummy) shows that this family did not act as a family on holiday. The children were in the creche/kids club all day. They were even fed their tea by the hotel staff. In the evenings there wer dumped alone in the appartment. (Imagine being a small child and waking up in the dark, sacred, afraid, terrified, in a strange room with strange noises, smells, voices speaking in a strange language outside, the echo of wild dogs barking down the lanes ..children have very real and very vivid imaginations and really believe in monsters and ghosts ).

Gery had to "cook up" this photo as they didn't spend enough time together as a family to get family shots. They didn't do normal family holiday things together. When you're on holiday, you are forever stopping strangers "please can you take our phoo" or taking the same photo twice or three times, so you get a version with the photographer as well.

Maddie's hair in the pool photo seems lighter shade than in the tennis one (lighter hair colour denoting a younger child), and also shorter.

The McCanns, after 6 days together, and a trip to the UK, were unable to produce one holiday snap of them all together. The only photo that I have seen of them all together were the professional black and white ones . What kind of family is that?

viv said...

Hi Lizzy

Good to hear from you and agree with what you say.

I think the new Head is designed to give added impetus to this investigation and I have a certain feeling that it will.

Ah the Dutch connection again..strange how he puts getting his driving licence back ahead of the pics of Maddie which he does not even bother to specifically mention. Stranger still a friend posts it back to him! I have noticed a lot more of his blog is now available on the new website but nothing for May, probably too incriminating.

Day 57: 29/06/2007 Day:
Early rise this morning dropping off and picking up good friends from the airport. One of our friends from Amsterdam, who has been actively campaigning to publicise Madeleines disappearance, dropped in to see us for a couple of hours since he is on a golfing trip in the Algarve.

Our friends brought back my wallet which had been returned, needless to say minus the Sterling, although all my cards and €30 were still in it! It is good to have my driving license back and one or two other important things.

Penelope said...

Viv,

I'm upset Mr Ribero has resigned. People usually resign, not because they are not "up" to the job, but as a mark of protest. Maybe Ribero felt that he was prevented dong his job properly. Maybe with the heat of the Lisbon Treaty and the fact that the current president of the EU is Portuguese and Tony Blair wants the yet to be created "President of Europe" role, favours being curried at a high level are frustrating him. This happens. A cousin of mine ran the diplomatic service in my native country, he had the top civil service post, yet was constantly frustrated and aghast at political interference, which he could do very little about. Certainly the McCanns at the end of the BBC Leceister interview seemed as happy as Larry. I hope to God they don't get away with it. No doubt the McCanns will jump on this resignation as an admission of defeat by the PJ (if they have not done so already, I havent really been watching the news lately)

viv said...

Hiya Penelope and great that we bump into each other online, I have missed you.

You paint a very vivid picture of the neglect of their children on this holiday where they dumped them day and night and the fear that neglect would have engendered. Causing children emotional harm is just as much child abuse as any other type and can cause the really long term damage that many adults just never manage to shake off. Something that Kate and Gerry McCann just do not wish to address. However, they clearly are watching what people are complaining about and modifying accordingly to an extent. Kate said the twins play let's hunt the monster who got Maddie and that they were not really bothered by her being missing. Now she tells us the twins call her on their toy phones etc, that they do miss her and Madeleine is very much a part of their lives. But thanks to them she is not and what a pity Kate needs people to tell her normal things to say..normal games that children should play, normal human emotions and empathy. It is very worrying it just does not seem to occur to her.

It is simply awful isn't it they did not have any family shots, to offer, as you say because they just did not act like a family, Gerry had to pop home and make one. Then when Madeleine goes missing we are inundated with pictures of them with the twins, in between them dumping them in the creche until Mark Warner had to ask them to stop that. STrange they needed to be told.

I have to confess in the cooked up photograph Madeleine does look much more like 3 than 4 and agree with what you say about the hair and her face just looks more totlike. In the tennis balls pic her face looks more mature like you get when a child reaches four as she did almost. As we know the McCanns have advised they went on two previous Mark Warner holidays where there was a baby listening service, did he really have the cheek to use a pic from the previous year. Did they leave their children the previous year, when they were even tinier? From local gossip I have heard, yes they did!

viv said...

Hiya Penelope

I think the thing is Mr Ribeiro was a judge, not a policeman and maybe Portugal want to send out a message we are not politicising this issue and we want to drive up performance by getting a man in charge who is not politically motivated he is a policeman himself and understands the operational work he is in charge of. For me that is a very good sign. The Correio de Manha article I posted late last night on the other thread makes clear he had no choice about resigning. He made a lot of errors, including it would seem, removing Goncalo Amaral who after all, was right on target and had done some very good work in obtaining evidence to make these two arguidos.

Viv x

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

Great article and plenty to stretch the brain!!

So poor Kate and Gerry were too tired to travel to Praia de Luz to commemorate the disappearance of poor Madeleine, due to the week of lucrative appearances on the media! What a feeble excuse!! What a let down to Madeleine and the siblings - they should have been there too - they have lost a beloved sister after all. So what an insult to all those locals in PdL who went out of their way to help look for Madeleine, something even the parents didn't do. The McCanns probably didn't want to face the local priest again because they knew how he had suffered in this charade. So they chose to go to a local Anglican church - a huge blunder in my opinion, when they are trying to show what devout Catholics they are!

All this distasteful stuff with Maddie's eye defect, balloons, tea shirts, wrist bands etc, smacks of commercialism and has made not one iota of difference in finding their daughter, but it has certainly put them in the millionaire bracket!

One thing I found strange in the quotes by the family and friends is the one by David Payne:

"We know they didn't do it. One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but we didn't in our worst nightmares think it would be this"!

Just what does he mean by waiting for something to happen? Is he talking about the media frenzy already on the cards or were they expecting an abduction after seeing suspicious characters around? And Jane didn't say she saw 'Madeleine' being abducted - she said she saw a child being carried! Ambiguities again!!

Now we have to wait and see what transpires now there is a new man in the forefront of the investigation. The McCanns should drop their objections to returning for the reconstruction - they owe it to Madeleine, the twins and to the people of Praia de Luz!

JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE!

Zodiac said...

Viv,

Great article.

I agree with you and Penelope regarding the photo's by the pool and tennis courts. Especially the hair. By the pool her looks lovely and she is well groomed, I think she also looks younger. On the courts she looks looks like a little girl who has been playing and her hair is a mess, imagine it washed and dried I think it would be longer than the photo pool, only my humble opinion. I do not understand why this photo would have to be brought from the UK, would it not have been among the pics taken on the camera and could have been issued almost immediately.

Nancy,
From your post:

"We know they didn't do it. One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but we didn't in our worst nightmares think it would be this"!

I read the above before from the McCann Files. I was shocked to read it, did he mean they were waiting on an accident or something like that but not an abduction. If that is what he meant it shows how they all knew how their actions were dangerous, that little children should not be left alone. As I am typing this I am thinking WTF, FFS this is a group of so called intelligent people we are discussing. The group that all neglected their children night after night for their own selfish pleasure. Are the McC's considered by the rest of the group as unlucky because one of their kids are missing, is this where the 'unlucky theory' emanated from. They are all a bunch of morons as far as I am concerned. With regard to missing Madeleine (if she is) her parents are responsible and have to be held accountable at least for the neglect they both chose to subject on that holiday of May 07, the neglect that was the catalyst of the situation that M may or may not be in now.

nancy said...

Hi Zodiac -

Why is it that so many comments by the tapas 8 (one of them has never commented) are so confusing?

To me the quote by David Payne indicates that they were a tad anxious about the leaving the children alone, but decided to take the chance, obviously feeling that their enjoyment was more important than the children's safety.

All those who left their children alone that night, apart from the Paynes who used a baby monitor, should be brought to book in my opinion, instead of being treated as VIP's!!

Joe said...

As the McCanns have done nothing to help the investigation since the start why are we surprised that they will not go to PDL? Since the PJ have the statements of all the Tapas why not do the reconstruction filmed and witnessed without them, either way it will show the, timelines.

If this case is shelved shortly then it has set a new precedent IMO where 2 of the prime suspects have declared their innocence, (ordinarily a suspect may say nothing at all) time and time again, yet neither have co-operated fully with the PJ, which is at odds with their claim. In any other country a conclusion of involvement would more than likely be inferred by their lack of co-operation. The case will probably be concluded without them ever being questioned and they expect their arguido status to be lifted? Yes if they had cleared up all the inconsistencies, but they have not.
Having said that they appear to get what they want, but to those of us with half a brain it has left us with a mixture of emotions and regret that a small girl may never get justice.

LittleGreyCell said...

Morning,

On the topic of the McCanns being unwilling to go back to Portugal for a reconstruction of that night...

...they - and their lovely supporters, the 'Pros' - want us to believe in an abduction without any foundation whatsoever other than the fact that Madeleine has disappeared.

However, there appears to be much evidence that Kate and Gerry were in some way culpable towards her disappearance, even setting aside their leaving the kids on their own. For instance, Eddie and Keela's reactions; washed walls and curtains; uncontrollable temper tantrums; extraordinarily unusual behaviour from victims of a child abduction; lack of co-operation with the police and the fingering of others...and this is just a selection of suspicious stuff pointing towards them having a hand in things.

Whilst on the other side of the coin, credible evidence towards an abduction = none whatsoever. No DNA, no footprints, no motivation, little opportunity or knowledge the kids were inside that apartment, and an escape into thin air. (I'm obviously completely discounting JT's 'sighting' of Bundleman since she keeps changing her story, may not have left the tapas table at all and is a very close friend of the main suspects).

As arguidos, Kate and Gerry might well think the PJ have an alternative agenda for enticing them back to Praia da Luz. But even so, if their daughter REALLY is in the hands of others, would they give a toss for what others thought of them or might suspect about them? Would they not "leave every stone unturned" in the quest to recover their beloved missing child? (Makes that phrase look a bit like a throwaway line, Gerry, if you don't actually follow through with the lofty pronouncement).

Innocent people just don't behave like this.

I'm more inclined to believe in an abduction by aliens who hovver above the ground and walk through walls before escaping in a silent invisible spaceship than I am in somebody untoward entering that apartment that night and running off with the poor child.

So there, Pros. This is what common sense and rational logical thinking looks like. Your aggressive defence of two main suspects based on nothing credible whatsoever (even the statistics in their involvement are overwhelmingly against you) is pure nuttiness - or perhaps something a little more sinister, as many of us suspect.

viv said...

Hiya Joe

What you suggest for the reconstruction would defeat the object of the exercise. People seem to be confusing it with a Crimewatch style reconstruction which is designed to job people's memories to get new witnesses so they can find the culprits. This is what the McCanns want because they insist they are not the culprits.

The sort of reconstruction the PJ have in mind is an investigative tool when they already know who the suspects are but they do not believe them and their accounts not just of the timelines but their whereabouts at different points simply do not match up with other witnesses. This is intended to put them all on the spot and demonstrate how what they are trying to say is just a pack of lies. For example, imagine Kate screaming hysterically right outside her apartment. Jane's apartment is right next door if you look at the pictures the doors are just a few yards apart. Jane says that by this stage she was back in her apartment tending to her sick child. She says the first she knew of a problem was when Rachel knocked her door and told her. Now how on earth could she have not heard Kate and where was OB? It does not make sense that they both left the meal to tend to the sick child, whose sheets never got changed as he says anyway does it? They need them to act through what they are saying to show it up just for what it is - impossible rubbish - they want Jane Tanner to walk straight past Gerry and Wilkins and then tell them again how they never even noticed her..they want to have a man walking across where she says in that dim light and have her explain just how with the benefit of several months hindsight she could really see that was Madeleine, even see little pink motif on the PJs - get my drift!

It is quite wrong to say the McCanns have not been interviewed. They were interviewed as suspects and the allegations put to them. The PJ do not have to give them a second chance to alter their story, but they are giving them the chance to go and do the reconstruction to prove what they and their friends say is true. The fact they will not and the friends say they will go but want 5 star private jets etc, in other words they wont go, says it all really. I think they will be prosecuted, but not for the most serious offence that I think they actually committed, murder, because I do not think they have sufficient evidence to prove that. Perverting the course of justice, most certainly, manslaughter very likely, also fraud and disposing of the body. In UK perverting the course of justice carries a max penalty of life. There will be appropriate charges for Kate and Gerry IMO.

nancy said...

Joe -

K&G have never co-operated with the PJ's - all those unanswered questions still outstanding, so it comes as no surprise that they won't go back for the reconstruction. They always said they wouldn't leave PdeL and would leave no stone unturned to find Madeleine, but words come cheap with those two in my opinion.

They certainly aren't short of cash to enable them and the twins to go to Portugal with what Gerry must be earning and the Fund money. Kate hasn't done a day's work since she got back to the UK, so she has ample time to go back!

Which begs the question of just how are the McCanns and the Board of Directors of the Madeleine Fund (leaving no stone unturned) are using the balance of the money left in the fund to look for Madeleine. It is common knowledge that they hired the most expensive lawyers and accountants in London to set up the Fund, who obviously charged exhorbitant fees, when they could easily have used local lawyers and accountants who would have charged far less! Could it be that they don't want local firms knowing exactly what is being spent and where? Just how much has been spent on directly looking for Madeleine, apart from using the useless M3 lot, who they have hired again at vast expense?

This case is a mystery of giant proportions and we may never get to the bottom of it, even though many of us have our own opinions of what happened to Madeleine, will it ever be known? - only if a miracle happens I fear.

viv said...

In the UK the Crown Prosecution Service advise the police on appropriate charges and any further evidence that is required to prove the charges, this is very similar in Portugal. This is the Crown Prosecution Service's explanation about this offence and if you think about all the things Kate and Gerry have done, it does emphasise how complex the investigation is and that this charge is a very likely one they will have to face: As can be seen this charge is used generally for serious cases. It can be used where a child has died instead of a murder or manslaughter charge. In Portugal they have a specific offence of child endangerment where the child has died as a result that has a max penalty of 10 years they could be charged with this AND conspiracy with others to pervert the course of justice. This would give the court total sentencing power just as bad as a murder rap particularly if you also add on the very serious offence of disposing of the body, again part of a criminal conspiracy by the looks of things as the very least involving Kate and Gerry.

Viv x

Perverting the Course of Justice
(Archbold 28-1 to 28-28)

The offence of Perverting the course of justice is committed when an accused:-

does an act or series of acts;
which has or have a tendency to pervert; and
which is or are intended to pervert;
the course of public justice.
The offence is contrary to common law and triable only on indictment. It carries a maximum penalty of life imprisonment and/or a fine.

The course of justice must be in existence at the time of the act(s). The course of justice starts when:-

an event has occurred, from which it can reasonably be expected that an investigation will follow; or
investigations which could/might bring proceedings have actually started; or
proceedings have started or are about to start.
In (R v Cotter and Others [2000] TLR) it was held that 'the course of public justice included the process of criminal investigation following a false allegation against either an identifiable or unidentifiable individual.'

The offence of perverting the course of justice is sometimes referred to as "attempting to pervert the course of justice". It does not matter whether or not the acts result in a perversion of the course of justice: the offence is committed when acts tending and intended to pervert a course of justice are done. The words "attempting to" should not appear in the charge. It is charged contrary to common law, not the Criminal Attempts Act 1981: (R v Williams 92 Cr. App. R. 158 CA).

The offence of perverting the course of justice overlaps with a number of other statutory offences. Before preferring such a charge, consideration must be given to the possible alternatives referred to in this Charging Standard and, where appropriate, any of the following offences:-

corruption: Prevention of Corruption Act 1906 and Public Bodies Corrupt Practices Act 1889;
agreeing to indemnify a surety: s.9 Bail Act 1976;
making false statement: s.89 Criminal Justice Act 1967, s.106 Magistrates' Courts Act 1980 and s. 11(1) European Communities Act 1972;
using documents with intent to deceive: s.173 Road Traffic Act 1988;
impersonating a police officer: s.90 Police Act 1966;
acknowledging a recognisance or bail in the name of another: s.34 Forgery Act 1861; and
concealing an arrestable offence: s.5 Criminal Law Act 1967.
Perverting the course of justice covers a wide range of conduct. A charge of perverting the course of justice should, however be reserved for serious cases of interference with the administration of justice. Regard must be had to the factors outlined in General Charging Principles, above in this chapter and Charging Practice for Public Justice Offences, above in this chapter, which help to identify the seriousness of the conduct.

Before deciding to proceed with a charge of perverting the course of public justice you should consider whether the acts complained of can properly be dealt with by any available statutory offence, or any other offence mentioned in this charging standard. If the seriousness of the offence can properly be reflected in any other charge, which would provide the court with adequate sentencing powers, and permit a proper presentation of the case as a whole, that other charge should be used unless:

the facts are so serious that the court's sentencing powers would be inadequate; or
it would ensure the better presentation of the case as a whole; for example, a co-defendant has been charged with an indictable offence and the statutory offence is summary only.
Note that in (R v Sookoo (2002) TLR 10/4/02) the Court cautioned against adding a count of perverting the course of justice when the conduct could properly be treated as an aggravating feature of the principal offence. However, consecutive sentences may be imposed when the conduct is a separate and subsequent act, in which case a count of perverting the course of conduct should be considered.

The following are examples of acts which may constitute the offence, although General Charging Principles, above in this chapter and Charging Practice for Public Justice Offences, above in this chapter should be carefully considered before preferring a charge of perverting the course of justice:-

persuading, or attempting to persuade, by intimidation, harm or otherwise, a witness not to give evidence, to alter his evidence or to give false evidence;
interference with jurors with a view to influencing their verdict;
false alibis and interference with evidence or exhibits, for example blood and DNA samples;
providing false details of identity to the police or courts with a view to avoiding the consequences of a police investigation or prosecution;
giving false information, or agreeing to give false information, to the police with a view to frustrating a police inquiry; for example, lying as to who was driving when a road traffic accident occurred;
lending a driving licence to another to produce to the police following a notice to produce, thereby avoiding an offence of driving whilst disqualified being discovered;
agreeing to give false evidence;
concealing or destroying evidence concerning a police investigation to avoid arrest;
assisting others to evade arrest for a significant period of time; and
making a false allegation which wrongfully exposes another person to the risk of arrest, imprisonment pending trial, and possible wrongful conviction and sentence.
In deciding whether or not it is in the public interest to proceed, consideration should be given to:

The nature of the proceedings with which the defendant was trying to interfere;
The consequences, or possible consequences, of the interference.
A prosecution may not be in the public interest if the principal proceedings are at a very early stage and the action taken by the defendant had only a minor impact on those proceedings.

It is likely that perverting the course of justice will be the appropriate charge when:-

the acts wrongfully expose another person to risk of arrest or prosecution;
the obstruction of a police investigation is premeditated, prolonged or elaborate;
the acts hide from the police the commission of a serious crime;
a police investigation into serious crime has been significantly or wholly frustrated or misled;
the arrest of a wanted person for a serious crime has been prevented or substantially delayed, particularly if the wanted person presents a danger to the public or commits further crimes;
the acts completely frustrate a drink/drive investigation thereby enabling the accused to avoid a mandatory disqualification;
the acts strike at the evidence in the case. For example, influencing a vital witness to give evidence/altered evidence/false evidence, or destroying vital exhibits or frustrating a scientific examination;
the acts enable a defendant to secure bail when he would probably not have otherwise secured it;
the acts strike at the proceedings in a fundamental way. (For example, by giving a false name so as to avoid a mandatory disqualification or a 'totting' disqualification: giving false details which might significantly influence the sentence passed); giving details which may result in a caution instead of prosecution);
concerted attempts to interfere with jurors; attacks on counsel or the judge; or conduct designed to cause the proceedings to be completely abandoned);
a concerted attempt has been made to influence significant witnesses, particularly if accompanied by serious violence;
the sentencing powers of the court for an alternative offence would be inadequate.

mandarinn said...

Good morning Viv & penelope
About AR resignation i have to you that if he didn't resigned he would be desmissed.
The problem with him was not only his atitudes in mccns case, he created bad feelings also about other 2 sensible cases runing now in Oporto, and after the declarations he produced to a news paper his position was unsustenable.
I feel happy as many portuguese citizens feel because the new director come from PJ and is a very competent person.
I'm going to congratulate PJ and their director in Claudia's blogg.

nancy said...

Viv -

Thanks for that revealing article.

The McCanns, and their friends, have exposed Robert Murat to the risk of arrest and prosecution, so perverting the course of justice could well be what they are finally charged with. Reading through details of this case from the first day up to the present time, there are many examples of how the McCanns and their tapas friends have attempted to mislead the PJ's and the public.

The biggest problem the PJ's have had of course is that Madeleine's body has still not come to light. As Gerry so sensitively said 'find the body and prove it'!!

But as dear Leigh3 often says:

slowly, slowly, catchee monkey, or monkies in this case!!

Nx

Joe said...

Hello Viv,

I should have said that the McCanns will probably never be requestioned to be accurate, my apologies.


I get what you are saying with regard to the reconstruction but as you say if the McCanns know their story is BS and will not add up to any scrutiny then one can see that is the real reason they will not be involved. Another question then is if these timelines do not add up and blatantly do not then why is the reconstruction really necessary and it could be done with the other tapas?

LittleGreyCell said...

From tomorrow's New Statesman:-

A guy called Rob Blackhurst has just stayed at Praia da Luz...


My girlfriend and I had planned a quick week away with Kitty, her four-year-old. Cash-strapped after moving house, we'd heard of the travel company Mark Warner's middle-class holiday camp regime: sun, sailing, tennis, good food, children's meals and a well-staffed kids' club that lasted all morning. We signed up to the 40 per cent reduction offer (it normally costs around £1,000 each) before someone else snapped it up.

It was only when we googled the "Upscale Ocean Club" in Portugal that it dawned on us: we were taking a four-year-old to the same complex, with the same company, as the McCanns had visited a year ago. This took some finding, as there was scarcely any mention of Praia da Luz on its website.

We are normally pretty risk-averse, but - with a combination of lethargy and an unscientific hunch that lightning doesn't strike twice - we decided that we'd go ahead. After all, we told ourselves, we wouldn't be leaving her alone in the apartment. Reactions of families and friends varied from the gut response "You are sick" to (more commonly) a philosophical "These things can happen anywhere". From our parents, there was just a tight-lipped "Be careful".

We wondered whether the weight of the abduction and the expected media scrum would hang over the holiday, but it is easy to forget when you are there. Praia da Luz itself is stripped of the striking photos of Madeleine that were everywhere a year ago. The only image we saw in the entire village was a sun-bleached poster on the church noticeboard. Next to it was a diary of the weekly services in English and Portuguese - including a vigil every Friday evening for "Made leine and all the missing children".

With its crushed-diamond sand, cloudless skies, sprinkled green gardens and English pubs serving toad in the hole, Praia da Luz (Portuguese for "beach of light") feels too pretty and too perfect to be the theatre of nightmares. Above all, it felt safe: the beach alone could have been designed by a risk consultant - small, with water that is too shallow for anyone to get into trouble, and a rescue boat on permanent standby. It was the logistics - making sure the children's factor 30 was packed in the bag - and the eye-watering strength of the euro against the pound that occupied our thoughts, rather than any ruminations on missing children.

The slew of media images from last summer made me expect functional, high-rise apartments that had sprouted up recently - a large-scale suntrap built in the middle of nowhere. In fact, the village is small, full of character and history. Next to the beach are the remains of Roman baths. And although two-thirds of the population is English (mostly Telegraph-reading expats in their sixties), a Mediterranean sleepiness pervades the town. There was a cash drought for four days this past week when both cashpoint machines ran out of notes, making us empty our pockets, hoard our small change, and borrow from Kitty's purse to pay for meals. It's a public holiday, the waiters shrugged; no one will come and fix them.

But the ripples of Madeleine's abduction were just beneath the surface, and not just the journalist from Smooth FM who pursued us across the rock-pools in search of an interview. When we took Kitty to her kids' club, we shivered when we realised that it was the same bright room - with buggies and dolls, mini-furniture and finger paintings - in which Madeleine spent that last afternoon. We had expected to see it full of children, but there was only one other child enrolled in the below-fives club last week. The lack of visitors was clear wherever we went on the Algarve: on a day out to the local water park, Splash and Surf, we had the slides to ourselves.

We, too, found the uphill walk from the apartments to the Millennium Restaurant too far for a cantankerous four-year-old exhausted from a day at the beach. It was this gruelling journey, said Kate McCann in the documentary shown on ITV at the end of last month, that made the couple decide to dine at the tapas bar near to their apartment instead. But rather than leave Kitty alone, we put her in the "sleepover service" - a sleeping bag in front of a DVD and a nanny - while we ate our evening meal.

Inside the apartment, paranoia ruled. Like the McCanns', ours was on the ground floor, with public paths on either side. We hardly needed the hastily added security notices: "Do not leave your doors unlocked - even for a minute." My girlfriend swiftly abandoned me in our bedroom and decided that she would sleep in the twin bed next to her daughter instead.

The handful of other families that had booked with Mark Warner were no-nonsense, phlegmatic, with large broods. They weren't the sort to be easily spooked by irrational fears. But although it felt like a taboo to discuss Made leine, every parent shared their own heart-stopping moment after a few glasses of wine. Ours came in the village supermarket when Kitty disappeared behind a stand of beach balls and we lost her for 15 seconds. Another father reported leaping out of bed when he saw a man's silhouette fall across their curtains - only to find it was one of the black-clad security guards that Mark Warner has hired this year to patrol the apartments at night. The local English population was clearly jumpy, too. When Kitty and I were playing her favourite game (hiding in the bushes together and pretending to be escaping from giants) there was not the indulgent smile that adults normally give other adults playing with children. Their gaze lingered, obviously wondering if the scene was as innocent as it initially appeared.

And when I wandered around Praia da Luz in search of cigarettes late at night, it felt a very different place. The streets that were so dazzlingly whitewashed and carefree during the day, the walls that radiated heat like a hot stove, felt sin ister now: deserted, unlit and anonymous. The fairy-tale land had turned into a dark wood where strangers could come and go unnoticed. I hurried back to the apartment and double-checked the patio doors.

Gina said...

Hi all, I haven't posted for ages as I had nothing to say, however I would like to say now the following

Swedish Mum, I saw your post yesterday and feel exactly the same way. I also feel that although this is a sad affair, Madeleine is just one of many missing children and I feel giving just one child so much attention is unfair and unecessary. I know the McCanns say they were told to keep her in focus and they have done that for sure, in IMO their usual style of giving no regard for others and having no regard to how many other innocent people's lives they have affected in the process.

Whatever the outcome, I think it is unfair to accuse the PJ of failure, there have been many missing children who have not been found even though the police have done everything possible. This case has had the added problem of lack of co-operation and interference for whatever reason. I remember John Stalker saying he felt they were all hiding a dark secret and I believe that to be true. A secret that is more likely to protect someone than anything to do with the disappearance of Madeleine, and as a reward for this the group have become fireproof. Maybe if they had not brown-nosed and told all Madeleine would have been found by now.

The McCanns say they want all the info so they can find Madeleine themselves. So let them have it IMO and leave them to get on with it in their own style of hiring morons to do the job. Perhaps one day a journalist or TV presenter may have the courage to ask questions that need answering rather than allow these stage managed interviews.

I doubt, like Swedish I will post anymore, I find it sickening that it has gone from agreeing to disagree over this case to personal abuse which if you mention it you are accused of wingeing. Call it what you like, the bottom line is there are some really decent people who have been blogging who have been pulled apart for no good reason, and even the ones who I do not agree with have the courage to post for all to read instead of posting on a blog that cannot be viewed by the public where they can say what they like about who they like without fear of retaliation then go onto Trolls blogs to vent their venom on others. What happened to caring about Madeleine, it is clear to me that went long ago from some although they claim that is all they care about.(NOT) Bye all

Stella said...

LGC

How much has Rob Blackhurst been paid for that load of garbage I wonder. The guy is obviously a jouranlist, who would have us believe that by pure coincidence he ends up booking a room at Ocean Club PDL, yer right, there goes another flying pig...

So Team McCann have now decided to take a back seat in publicity? Does this mean they will be paying total morons into scare mongering?

What a dirty cheap trick. I hope Rodrigues gets them all and soon..

nancy said...

LGC -

I already typed and sent this but it disappeared, so here I go again!

I wonder if that guy who went with his family to PdeL really works for the New Statesman, sent to PdeL to get his opinions in their paper. Reading up on all the discrepancies and outright lies on this case has certainly made me very cynical!

What he says about the area at night being very sinister, unlit, deserted and obviously the sort of atmosphere where a would be predator would hang out, makes me wonder if he is trying to convince us that what the McCanns are saying about an abduction could be true, or that they should in no way have left their chidren unattended in a place like that!

Stella said...

Nancy

They say great minds think alike, and we seem to agree where Blackhurst is concerned. He is a paid lackey, if you ask me.

Have to dash now, but will be back soon.

nancy said...

Hello Gina -

I just saw your post. I think that feeling the way you do, even though we all enjoy your sensible and honest posts, you should at least have a long break from blogging and maybe return some time in the future.

I know what you mean about there being many other children missing in the world and Madeleine has certainly had her fair share of publicity and sympathy, but I feel that those of us on here look at Madeleine as a kind of icon for all missing children in attempting to find out exactly what happened to her.

I must admit I haven't been on the other hateful forum, but I had plenty of stick when on the DE. My nature though when insulted is to go in for the kill and it makes me all the more determined to carry on putting my views across.

I feel that a whole lot of lies has been told in this case and there is no way we should just let them get away with the disappearance of Madeleine!

Take care Gina, and we will welcome you back with open arms if you change your mind!

Enjoy the summer with your lovely dogs.

Nancy x

Joe said...

When I started to read the word abduction in the piece that meant already a prejudged article and it proved so. A pompous git who thinks he is living in a novel. He should get out more and get a life.

Wizard said...

Evening All,

I believe Robert Murat has no involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine and there was precious little evidence for the pj to make him an arguido in the first place. Is this the case? If it is why is he still an arguido? This fact worries me because if there is little evidence and his arguido status hasn’t been lifted could it be the same for the McCanns. I believe there is far more circumstantial evidence regarding the McCanns than perhaps we even know about but apparently not enough concrete evidence to charge them. Although I believe this to be true is it?

So where does that leave the case the McCann clearly want to have their arguido status lifted so they can see the police files and what evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, is against them. This will allow them to fabricate a story to fit in innocently with the evidence the pj have and until they have this information they are out on a limb.

Anyone any views why Murat arguido status has not been lifted?

viv said...

Hiya Nancy
This guy started off by saying they were strapped for cash, what a good way to pay for the holiday, an average article like that goes for about £2000 and he has clearly tried to write in creatives story book type of way. But..
It could also be said this man is implying double lock the doors and even if someone was hanging around it is so dark JT would not have been able to see to give a decent description, which of course she did not (eggman). There again, if you are sitting at the table the whole time and never moved I guess the less of a lie you tell the better you feel. There was a cook working on the griddle just yards away from them and the restaurant was quiet, where else would she be looking other than at her griddle. I think it is appalling that all these Portuguese Staff who gave evidence against the McCanns have lost their jobs, I wonder if they got compensation, I doubt it, but in a way it is a sticky one for Martin Warner, they would not want guests plying them for the gory detail would they. I am still convinced that Gerry kept having a go at Tanner and so incrementally her story got more like he wanted it to be...Ah I just realised actually he was not head toward the church/beach He was headed in the direction of Murat's house. She initially gave a fairly good description of Gerry McCann 35-40 short dark hair, European, dark jacket and beige trousers (which we have seen Gerry wearing) etc then he morphed into being the antithesis of Gerry McCann, long dark hair, huge teeth, swarthy skin. She has seriously perverted the course of justice and prejudiced a very serious enquiry into the disappearance of a little girl with the attempts to frame Murat. There was an article in the Daily Express where Kate was saying she felt Murat had a case to answer but they are now pulling back from that position, no doubt having received legal advice about what sort of sentence they could expect for trying to set up an innocent man for such a serious offence and subject him to the damage of being named an arguido and countless hours of unpleasant grilling by the police, property snatches and searches etc. In a civil claim this would pay mega bucks!

Gina

It would be nice if the McCanns made an expansive gesture and donated some of that money to a missing or abused childrens' charity. Not that there is any chance of that, of course, hogging all the cash and constantly stating they need this huge stash to find Madeleine is typical of their tunnel vision. We all knew that little group from the DE days and they still persist in doing nothing more than bully and insult. Stopping people posting is a victory for them, that has always been their stated aim. I hope you will re-consider but taking a break sometimes is a good idea, particularly when news is slow.

Viv x

Stella said...

Wizard, Hi

I believe Murat was originally made arguido by all the hard efforts of Team McCann to frame somone. They were the first to point the finger at him, not the PJ. He spoke directly with the Mccann's which already puts him in a very important position. Team McCann know it and so do the PJ. It is now in the best interest of the PJ to keep him that way if they want to secure an air tight case against the McCann's. No wonder someone rich paid him a visit before Christmas, to see if his silence could be bought...

viv said...

Hiya ~Wizard

My understanding is that under Portuguese procedure no decision can be taken about any of the arguidos status until the end of the investigative process. Therefore at the end of that process it is perfectly possible and indeed highly likely IMO that Murat will be formally cleared and the McCanns charged. They cannot clear him in the meantime this is just not the way the system works, that could impede the investigation and damage the secrecy of it, which it obviously would. The PJ went as close as they could to clearing Murat when they handed all his property back. If he was going to be charged that would not have happened because it would have been used as evidence against him in court, but there is no evidence against him. It is very different in McCanns case rather than offer any property back we have heard how they wish to seise more.

Of relevance here is the possible doctoring (forgive the pun) of that so called final family shot with Madeleine on. If you recall the PJ want his home PC which they probably now have. They also said they wanted other evidence at the Rothley residence, documents etc. To me this clearly points to evidence of where the original of that photograph came from, evidence they could obtain off his hard drive about photoshop type programmes he accessed and on what date. You can rest assured all the available photographs will have been stringently analysed by FSS who also specialise in computer analysis etc. The possible doctoring of photos will certainly not have gone un-noticed, I believe this is why they want all the evidence from the home address. Neither will the bruising to both Kate and Madeleine have gone un-noticed. If we can work it out from what we know, e.g. Gerry was assaulting Kate late on 2 May because her children had woken up and embarassed him..she had bruising...Pamela Fenn says Kate was "loud and out of control" late that night when they returned home..you can imagine how far ahead of us the police are and how much more detail and seised evidence they have. The Leicester Police were to do extensive background checks on the McCanns - this is standard practice in a homicide enquiry to find out the nature and conduct of the suspects and what they are capable of, how much they drink etc> A team of 30 officers led by a Detective Superintendent (only allocated to very serious criminal cases) has been working on this case now for 12 months solid. ONe can just imagine how much they know by now.


Viv x

nancy said...

Stella -

Yes, as you say, great minds think alike regarding the New Statesman story!! The newspapers obviously think the public will believe everything they are told!

As regards Murat, he was made the fall guy from the word go. I must admit I didn't think in terms of Kennedy maybe hoping to buy his silence,although I sensed there was an ulterior motive, but it certainly makes sense! Anyway, Murat will probably make more money and keep his self respect by suing all the taboids and I don't blame him!

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

I think I just missed one bit out that post. If they officially cleared Murat now there would be an absolute furore. It would clearly say that so far as the PJ are concerned the McCanns are guilty. That would obviously well and truly let the cat out of the bag. Keeping suspects in the dark about the detail of the investigation is just plain good tactics. The less they know, the less they can seek to manufacture. Any good legal case can be won by keeping the other side in the dark as much as possible, this is standard practice in civil proceedings too. Leave the other side unprepared and ambush them! Clever tactics are clearly required when you are trying to net a couple of sharks and a few that follow in their wake. Gerry does not conceal his anger and frustration, he has written on his blog about it and gone so far as to set up another phone line actually asking prosecution witnesses to ring him and give the lowdown. Clearly the idea is also to ridicule the Portuguese police and say they did not follow every lead. If they had followed every false lead Gerry has set for them they would have been hotfooting it all over the world and then they genuinely would have looked stupid, thing is, they are not, they are highly skilled practitioners who understand psychology among many other things and know exactly what they are about. I learned when I was a probation officer if you want to understand criminals you have to learn to think like them. This is what the PJ do. They can read them like a book.


Viv x

Stella said...

Nancy

I hope Murat told Kennedy just where to shove his 30 pieces of silver. He will get a lot more by telling the truth one day and by suing the press.

nancy said...

Viv -

I have never for one moment believed Jane Tanner's story of an abductor; it would have been impossible to have seen the colours of clothes on the man or the child in detail at the time she is talking about and the lamplight would have distorted the colours anyway. Not only that, if Gerry and his tennis pal were talking to each other there was no way they wouldn't have spotted a man walking along with a child in a place that was so quiet at that time of night.

I don't think we have heard the whole truth about their connection with Murat though! I have a feeling that he was set up as a patsy from the start; maybe from the time that Gerry met him at the New Labour Conference in Exeter. I wonder if Robert Murat does go ahead and sue the tabloids whether he will clear up the question of whether they knew each other! That should be very interesting! I've often wondered why he has not cleared that point up.


Nx

viv said...

Nancy darling did you say you are a leo the lion by any chance, just like me:

My nature though when insulted is to go in for the kill and it makes me all the more determined to carry on putting my views across.


Because that sounds just like me. Whenever Rosie has seriously insulted me my automatic response is to come back with another really strong post, she just makes me dig my heels in. If she wanted to shut you and me up she certainly went the wrong way about it.

Leo the lions, can be cuddly, playful and full of fun, but just dont push your luck or you will hear that roar!

Luv Viv x

viv said...

Hiya Nancy I always remember the way Gerry angrily snapped when asked on the beach by that lovely, I think Portuguese (or maybe Spanish) reported "and do you know Robert Murat".

That convinced me that he most certainly does and it was very telling he just did not want to answer. Why not say so if he did not know him? Clearly police can prove he does!

I think Murat has not revealed due to his arguido status and will probably have to wait until he is cleared before he goes ahead with his libel action.

Luke dragging me off to take him to work, back later.

Viv x

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

Thanks for your informative reply. Nobody’s arguido status will be lifted until the investigation has been completed – yes I now remember this being said by the pj. I of course would like Murat’s status to be removed to put further pressure on the McCanns to see what they would do if they remained the only ones in the frame, however, the law is the law and if this can’t be done so be it. A pity in my opinion but on second thoughts would these two crack under further pressure; I suppose realistically it is unlikely. They have lied for so long now they probably think its true themselves.

Joe said...

There are probably several layers to this whole affair as many here have alluded to over the months and on other blogs. Madeline's disappearance was a fly in the ointment so the other layers might have been exposed. These layers might prove embarrassing for professional people so perhaps that is why they have all stuck to a script to protect each others backs.

The PJ are unable to release Murat from Arguido status as he could talk or his eventual PR team will and that would further destroy any possible case the PJ have. Timing will be paramount if there is to be charges of any sort.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi everyone,

Sorry, suddenly had to go after posting the New Statesman piece.

Well, how naive do you have to be not to realise you were flying out to Praia da Luz?

Clarrie's obviously not having much luck with his usual outlets (amazing what suing a national daily can do for your friendships with editors on the rest of them), so is discovering pastures new.

The NS doesn't sell many copies and currently has a temporary editor as the last (well-respected) one left a couple of months ago.

Is this just a way of selling more copies by mentioning the Madeleine case? The NS certainly doesn't begin to compete for readers with its rival, Boris Johnson's old rag, The Spectator.

Can it really be that people are creeping around looking over their shoulders, velcro-ing their children to their underpants when they wouldn't even contemplate leaving them alone at night?

No. Utter drivel.

Could it be that there weren't many people on holiday in Praia da Luz because all the kids of school age are back at school now and nobody's got much spare dosh because the people who control all the high finance stuff have been UTTERLY INCOMPETENT and are bringing the world into recession??? (Something that journo should be aware of writing for a political mag, even if it is the New Statesman).

Twit. (Oops! Typo).

:)

Wizard said...

Hi Stella/Joe,

Legally I understand Murat cannot be released from his arguido status until the investigation is finished. Just for a moment say it could, what do you think he might say that could impact negatively on the pj’s investigation on the two remaining suspects?

hope4truth said...

Evening All

Hi LGC

just read your NS article what a load of tripe.

I would gladly go to PDL and stay with my children at the Ocean Club (actually the only thing that makes me think about not staying there is I would not want to be a voyer after such a tragic event took place there)...

Then again when ever I go on holiday stay at home or visit people the saftey of my children comes first.

It was a long walk to the restraunt??? Then he went on to say he ate at the Tapas and left the child in the creche so I dont understand why it makes any odds how far the the restraunt was as they did not take her with them???

And if he was that worried would he have felt safe leaving her alone with strangers???

If this is anything to do with the pink one he must really think we are all gulible fools...

How is your son getting on with his GCSE's???

xxx

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

It would be nice if Murat had been officially cleared when they handed his property back but it amounts to the same thing!

I suppose our sense of justice would like to see that but as you say PJ will stick to their legal procedures which are in many respects exactly how our own Police behave. They often investigate clever and devious murder suspects for several months, sometimes even years.

Like the police inspector who murdered his wife in the garage and typed out the suicide note.

They most certainly would not have been telling him he was a suspect or giving him details of the investigation.

As an aside what a terrible decision by that stupid judge to grant him bail on his third application for it, then he went and killed his mother in law prior to killing himself.

I do not think that people charged with murder should ever get bail and accepting a massive surety is completely unfair on those who do not have rich barristers for brothers ..I hope the government will tighten up the law on this. The Judge was impressed by his barrister brother putting up a massive surety and saying he would look after him..from the judge's comments the only thing he was worried about was whether he may harm himself. Sometimes you do wonder how such people ever got selected to be judges..what about the risk to the public a murderer poses!

I believe the McCanns are the type of offenders who will never admit their guilt, even when they are in custody. They will be whining on about a terrible miscarriage of justice and they got framed etc!! We will probably still be getting their bloody press spin! I hope they keep them both of the internet!

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

Maybe Murat could impact upon the McCanns right to have a fair trial by disclosing details of the evidence against them that he is aware of? We and the Portuguese Police will be scrupulously careful to ensure they cannot claim they could no longer get a fair trial because their rights have been infringed. This is why we are no longer getting any details of the evidence against them which does seem to be making people think the case is weak. If the case was weak it would have been dropped, it is costing the Portuguese and UK, millions and they have better things for senior police to do than proceed with a case that is going nowhere.


Viv x

Joe said...

Wizard,

he might tell the world how 3 of the Tapas vehemently tried to put him in the frame in a confrontation setting. Why did GM deny knowing Murat? Would RM throw light on this issue. I suspect RB knows a lot more about this lot that might prove very interesting, but will he talk? I do not think so.

viv said...

Oh LGC I love it. Clarence has pissed off all the editors of the big name newspapers so he is skulking around begging favours of the likes of the New Statesman.

Darling you are probably right. What happened to all that fighting talk a few weeks back, he was taking the gloves off to the PJ ..all mouth, no proper trousers and an armoury of pink shirts ..what a dipstick!

nancy said...

Stella -

Love the way you said that about the 30 pieces of silver!! I hope Murat told him to do just that too!!


Nx

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

Has anyone actually seen CM lately I havent then have not watched a lot of TV lately and have refused to buy any newspapers or magazines for months now (never did believe a word of it but the reporting on this has been ridiculous)...

Hope you are ok xxx

nancy said...

Viv -

Yes, you are right - I am a Leo, and we are supposed to be the sign who will kill or die for our beliefs and especially for our kids so that's maybe why I am so obsessed in finding justice for Madeleine! I have to try and get to the truth of everything and I know you are just the same or even more so and that's why you started this forum!!

I am watching a film now, so I'll see you all tomorrow.

Good night and God Bless!

Nancy x

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

Ah yes, the mother Lioness, do not mess with her kids or god help you:-)

As you say I will fight very hard for justice if the case is serious and warrants it and losing is not a word in my vocabulary. I have done so for clients in the past, I have done so against my ex employers and I am doing so on this blog, as you say!

Someone was posting some interesting stuff about the stars on here the other night, it might have been LGC, but by the time I got around to looking at it the subject had moved on. I can almost always spot fellow lions, male or female. I have been out with two male lions, I suppose I never wanted some pussy who was a pushover:-)

atardi said...

LGC,

About the article.

I'm really jealous at you! You live in a country that never gets dark and where you can walk around safe for 24 hours a day. (It reminds me of the last concert I saw from Tina Turner,24/7 here.

Is Blackhurst a smoker? Or did he decide that night to smoke. So he could "prove" the darkness in PDL to fit with the stories we've been reading for a long time.(Not the JT story) A smoker knows how much he smokes so he would have buy cigarettes during the day, knowing that his girlfriend was so afraid at night that she had to sleep in the same bed as her 4 year old.

Another coincidence. Madeleine (also a girl) would have been 4 now.

Another thing to brainwash the public, another father, not Blackhurst saw a security guard patrolling the apartments at night.
Suggesting that they hadn't security guards last year to make the abduction theory possible.

I was waiting for new sightings. But this article is a renewed form of letting the public believe that Madeleine could have been abducted!

But the McCanns have told us already. They didn't want media attention anymore. So others are doing it for them.

Where is M3 and CM?

Wizard said...

Joe, just speculating but say Murat did know perhaps not Gerry but one of the others. Murat is local and would know the surrounding area quite well - wasn’t he an estate agent. He might have also have mentioned villas/apartments for sale and those that could be viewed without appointment because they were empty. Could Murat have been used unwittingly to find information out about hiding place for Madeleine? Could this be the reason they needed to implicate him in the crime to make sure anything he said to the pj would be taken with a pinch of salt.

viv said...

Hope/Atardi

I think with LGC's comments and others also I am becoming convinced the McCanns say they are bowing out of the media spotlight, and about time too, although I will believe it when I see it, and hey presto, in steps another mouthpiece.

I always thought that Gerry and Clarence are both such egotistical and forceful personalities who I know for a fact would not be able to see another point of view, that sooner or later they would fall out. The campaign has not gone well, I am seriously beginning to wonder if Gerry has decided M3 can go shove it and Clarence too, or did John I cannot remember his name DIY magnate pull the plug on the funding. He is reported to be a rough diamond himself, did Gerry fail to tow the line, something he would find so difficult?

There is something going on here isnt there, we will work it out. But, hey it is nice that Pink seems to have got something stuck down his throat, I hope it was not someone's fist. One could imagine people he mixes with getting really angry for "screw ups" and failed strategems..

Wizard said...

The Blackhurst article is more fodder for the ignorant. If there had of been an abduction the smell of a corpse would not have been found in apartment 5A or the wheel well of the Scenic car - would it.

viv said...

All this talk about go shove it is really making me laugh, I just keep thinking about Blandz's oft repeated remark at the end of almost every completely riveting post she writes

Portuguese tourist industry - they can shove it.

Phew that must be causing a few Portuguese to breathe big deep sighs of sheer ecstasy and relief. Do they really want anyone from Team McCann or anyone who would like to even think they are, visiting them again..guess not!

Joe said...

Wizard,

I got the impression that GM knowing Murat was on a social level or along those lines, even before Madeline disappeared. Murat may be involved with other dealings with this lot that were not related to Madeline's disappearance? McCanns denial of knowing RM may have been too hasty as if anything it has caused even more suspicion.

As I said earlier Blackhurst's piece in The New Statesman is like a guy on a fantasy trip thinking he is living in a novel. Who reads the right wing rag anyway?

Wizard said...

Now the publicity has died down a bit there would be no need for the pink spinmeister. It will be interesting to see where he surfaces next - hopefully not his book launch.

hope4truth said...

Viv

LOL I wonder who's fist it could be he normaly put his foot in his mouth...

Whatever happend whatever is being covered up someone will speak eventually it is all very well in the spur of the moment promising the world but guilt will make someone speak out (if they havent already)...

CM is in a very strong position he was just doing his job he was not there he did not decide to leave children alone and he may believe they are 100% inocent. He is not a Lawyer or Dr so does not have to sign an oath of silence.

IMHO he could make a fortune either way guilty or inocent and if he is made to look a fool he may very well be their downfall
any one who can spin the un spinable and make excuses where there are no excuses to be made must have a very thick skin...

Who knows where this will end it is very very sad xxx

Wizard said...

In the light of no new news I’m speculating a bit tonight. What if the pink spinmeister has taken a shine to Lady Macbeth – the Thane of Rothley's feathers might have been ruffled a little.

Joe said...

I do believe that Mitchell will turn up in Dublin on Friday



Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the Find Madeleine Campaign, is the star turn at this year’s Public Relations Institute of Ireland (PRII) annual conference next Friday (May 9).
The conference theme is Battling Against the Tide – staying in control of your communications agenda. Speakers include economist Pat McArdle of Ulster Bank and Chris Giles of The Economist.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/st...557-qqqx=1.asp

Courtesy of DS

atardi said...

Viv,

If portuguese tourist industry can shove it, this means that many British people in PDL must close down their business and maybe go back home.

If this happens we can expect revenge from the expats.

Wizard said...

Joe, I wonder what the circulation figures are for the Spectator.

Joe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
viv said...

Hiya Hope

That is the problem for Kate and Gerry isn't it? They will never speak but they seem to have involve all sort of people, some decidedly shady. Whenever someone has had to resort to that, they will be in constant fear of someone dropping something out.

What of Diane Webster, why should she keep her mouth shut? Well, agreed perhaps to protect her own, but I just get the impression from her reaction remaining seated at the table she knew there was a scam on and she was not prepared to be a part of it.

What of Metodo 3 - they are blatantly crooked. Gerry, Clarence, Smethurst and DG man have been controlling them and giving them their orders. Now if they have been cut off what is to stop them from starting to spill those orders? They could even blackmail the McCanns, I would not put anything past Mr Marco and Co given the ridiculous bare faced lies he was prepared to trot out on TV, the rather frank interview he gave to The Times and not to mention the cocaine dealing antics of his business partner. We even seen his mother in handcuffs. There is a very bad smell around this bunch of fraud specialists and he moved into some very expensive new offices.

I do not think for one minute Clarence could possibly believe the McCanns are innocent. As a news reporter his speciality was reporting on major murder cases like the Wests. However, I do think he is probably sleazy enough to be making sure he does not get into trouble, he will simply protest he was convinced of their innocence and carrying out his function of putting their press releases into the media. I also think he plans to make a fortune and does not give two hoots what happens to Gerry, but I think he has a bit of a soft spot for Kate.

Viv x

Joe said...

Wizard,

Desperate if they are relying on Mr.Blackhurst and an old story not even original.

Joe said...

Viv,

To be honest I do not think that Mitchell would care if they were innocent or not. As we all know a spin doctor spins BS and the truth is the first casualty. He is in it for the power, money and some trashy future book certainly not altruism.

viv said...

Hiya Joe

I could not get your link to work for Clarence in Dublin but doing public speaking is a living. I found the media firm that gets work for that idiot Williams Thomas lecturing in the press in his expert role as ex Detective Constable (heading up major cases of course). I figure Clarence's charge out rate is probably higher than his. Could it be he is branching out and getting himself some work, being the ex McCann spinner would make him popular (well you know what I mean, in an American sort of way). The love Paul Burrell, and let's face it he worked for the former Goddess of Wales before we had her replacement Goddess Kate of Rothley, Supermum and an expert on child welfare and abduction, she truly believes she is gorgeous enough in every conceivable way..to be a roving Ambassador.

All these items from the Farden Centre are thirsty and I left it a bit late. On that slightly satirical note, I will bid you all farewell, until we meet again...tomorrow¬

Love Viv x

Joe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joe said...

Viv, I tried another link but not working either. Anyway its on the 3A site as well.

He is also going to be on Irish TV tomorrow night. Late late Show, where he wont be trouble too much IMO with hard questions.

dolores said...

Viv,
I have really enjoyed reading all the posts tonight.
A little info here on Goncalo.
Luv D





As soon as he finishes writing the book on the Maddie case, the former coordinator of the PJ, Gonçalo Amaral plans to practice Law. The revelation was done to 24horas by his lawyer, António Paulo Santos.

Amaral, of 48 years old, is going to do an internship during a year in a lawyers' office in the Algarve. The future passes by practising law in the criminal rights and author rights areas. Gonçalo Amaral did a law course when he was Inspector-chief and after having completed and passed the Legal Practice Course he applied for a position as a coordinator of the PJ. He never did an internship and that is compulsory to perform legal practice in full.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Hope,

Just been having supper.

I don't know about people and their kids on holiday at all. My husband and I first took our son on holiday abroad when he was 19 months. It was a complete joy. Yes, kids have tantrums and yes, they get tired. But they're your kids, you brought them into the world to share it with you and we loved spending all day with him.

On that first holiday the evenings we dined out we'd have a beer whilst watching him eat early, and then later when we were eating our meal he sat with us and had an ice-cream.

In fact, he was very used to eating in restaurants and knew just what behaviour was expected of him because we taught him from a very young age what it was. He also came to see food as a lovely social event where people talk and joke and enjoy each others' company.

The fact that the McCanns dumped their kids at every opportunity really upsets me. Why on earth go to all that trouble to have them if you're not going to put in the effort of bringing them up? Let alone leave them in unsafe situations where they can get abducted or choke or injure themselves or worse.

Why didn't that guy in the NS take the 4 year-old girl with them? As you say, leaving her with total strangers - who you haven't personally vetted - is supposed to be somehow OK?

We took a light, collapsible buggy with us on holiday, like a lot of parents of young kids do. Did the McCanns not bother because they knew they wouldn't see much of their kids anyway?

Ugh.

Anyway, thanks for asking, my son's GCSEs seem to be going quite well. He's cheerful enough, too. He's trying to find a summer job at the moment - his idea - because he has a lot of DVDs to acquire! He's intent on going to America after a degree to get into the film industry and I'm already visualizing his departure with dread.

Obviously some would say I should be cheering...

How are you? Is your farden enjoying the sunshine?

X

Joe said...

Dolores,

I am glad that Mr.Amaral is getting on with his life and not let them win as too may people have been affected adversely with the fallout from the McCanns.

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv,

The thing about the NS is that hardly anyone reads the bloody thing anyway. Certainly not people who would be likely to support the Tapas Lot.

Shall we look out for his next effort in Specialist Mongoose Breeder Monthly?

:)

Gina said...

Hi Viv/Nancy, thank for your replies to my earlier post. Rest assured name calling etc. is not my reason for not posting. No no-brain would have that much influence over me. It is just complete frustration that nothing appears to be happening or likely too because as I said this couple have been fireproof. Try as I may to warm towards because if they are innocent they must be going through hell, I just cannot. There is something about them that makes me very angry and so I felt the best thing to do is to forget they exist and live in hope one day the truth out. I would rather see this happen in a court room than read it in a book however.

LittleGreyCell said...

Atardi,

Exactly right about the article. Haven't the patience to count how many times the word 'abduction' was used, but it was more than once.

Unsubtle brainwashing.

CM is probably trying to schmooze (do you know this word? Means persuade in a charming way) the editors of assorted magazines to his way of thinking, and Metodo3, whatever they're doing (or not doing) will be somewhere hot and sunny and luxurious.

It's a tough job, but someone's got to do it...

:)

hope4truth said...

Hi LGC

I keep missing you had a good chuckle at your post the other day especialy the bit about Land of Hope and Glory as an undertone LOL...

I think I must have been a bit dim when I had my second child my oldest was 2 years and 2 months exactly the day her sister arived and I never even thought to buy a two seater pushchair or buggy she just walked beside the pram (although to be fair we did not walk for miles only to the local shops or park) the car was used for anything over 2 metres...

When we went on our first foreign holiday with children I bought a buggy from Asda which was £9.99 (the youngest was nearly 3 by this time and unlike her sister would have stayed in her push chair until she was 10) and all I could think was why did I not get one of these years ago it is so easy. So I cant understand why you would go on holiday with 2 year old tiwns and not take a buggy?

Like you said maybe they did not plan to go out with them very far and did not need one?

My girls have allways enjoyed eating out and abroad they are made such a fuss of with colouring books and sweets they loved it I cant imagine not being with them at meal times on holiday and our courses allways got mixed up they would be on main while we had a starter and then eat ice cream...

Pleased it is going well for you son at least he knows what he wants to do my eldest has not got a clue (but has 2 years left at school) the youngest is going to be an actress or singer (or waitress while she waits for a call back) so at least I can visit her at work and eat at the same time...

How are you feeling now? xxx

hope4truth said...

Viv

I just wrote a long post to you and did not take my own advice and copy it and it has gone!!!

To cut a long story short I agree with you xxx

Gina said...

Hi all I was just reading
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/
and found her article Why is Madeleine an Obsession? Open letter to a reader, interesting. I expect most of you have already read it.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

One day on that holiday we left the buggy in the apartment because we weren't going very far. However, my son suddenly got tired on the way back and just lay down on the pavement to go to sleep. That's it, he said, I'm staying here. The times I've wanted to do that myself!

I'm very well, ta. Thanks to the wonders of modern medicine, I'm eating normally...chilli, curry, the lot. You'd never know I'd been near A&E or an endoscope! The appliance of science, as they say. (Well, as the washing machine people used to say).

Meanwhile, how are you? Is it your dental appointment tomorrow? Are you having the proper work done then?

X

atardi said...

Gina,

I think all people posting here have the same problem. It seems like nothing
has happened since December 2007. So many things were found. I’m still trying to find were I read about a necklace they found belonging to Kate.

You are right if they are innocent it must be hell for them. But their behaviour…….

What keeps bothering me is that a couple went on holiday with 3 children . And they had no buggy and no hired car during a period. As a mother I know , and my husband also, that if we had forgotten the buggy. (They needed 3 buggies). We would have bought at least one there.

If they really wanted to go to the Millenium with the kids they could have hired a car.

And another thing. They hired a car again after Madeleine was missing. So they had a car before.

Gina said...

Hi Atardi

Yes it is their behaviour I find offensive. Everybody's fault but their own and full of silly excuses, and they expect to be treated as if they are the only ones that have had a tragedy in their lives. I just posted a link to some Joana Morais wrote which sums it in a far better way than I can write

Joe said...

I am sorry to say this but IMO they went on holiday for fun fun fun with chums and NOT a family holiday where fun is looking after your children, playing games,stories, ice cream and all that stuff not booze it up and behave like two single people out to party on. They are older parents and perhaps had not got rid of the singular mentality, set in their ways, too long in the tooth by the time Madeline came along.

hope4truth said...

LGC

I am allways jealous of children in buggys when it is raining and they are all snug... When you need to sleep that is it oh to be a child again LOL

Glad you are feeling better and better still can eat what you want to again...

Yes dentist tomorrow and now I have been pain free for over a week I dont want to go :o( but it should be ok (and I have cloves asprin and extra strong pain killers in just in case)...

I am off to bed been up since 5.30 it was so lovely I went and sat in my farden...

See you tomorrow xxx

Atardi and Gina

Hi to both of you hope to see you tomorrow as well... If I have missed anyone sorry see you as well... Night Viv xxxx

atardi said...

Gina,

I know it's not the right time to post this. But I told you I had a question.

I've been watching a British program a few weeks ago but don't know the title. Been searching but couldn't find it . It was a program like "how clean is your house?" . If I must give it a title it would be "How clean are you?" It was about a woman being analised about personal hygiene.

And you won't believe it. This woman was wearing a bra during a year and she had never washed it.

So she got the advise to use a product that is only available in England to get her bra white again.
It's a product that is used to clean curtains.

Do you know which product she advised? Would like to use it for some shirts.

Gina said...

Joe, I think you may well have hit the nail on the head. I think many of us have found leaving the kids in a creche all day and alone at night not the norm to say the least. It would be so easy to speculate why but I don't think I want to go there, I have enough issues against the attitude of the McCanns without adding more.

Off to bed now, Good night all

hope4truth said...

Atardi

LOL I never saw that program but will try to find out what it is for you (I was off to bed but your question made me laugh)...

Let me know if anyone tells you what it was xxx

Gina said...

Sorry Atardi I cannot help you with that question because as I live in Spain I do not receive all the TV channels and only see that programme when I go visit my folks. I expect someone has seen it and can help you with the answer.

Gina said...

Hope what must foreign people think of us Brits, we leave our kids and go out boozing and never wash our bras, whatever next!!!

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

Good luck at the dentist tomorrow! With a bit of luck it'll all be done and dusted.

I'm off now too. (Must make us the same people).

Night night, Hope. Night all!

X

LittleGreyCell said...

Atardi,

The programme is called Too Posh to Wash. Didn't see what the product was but will try to find it for you tomorrow.

Goodnight!

:)

atardi said...

Hope,

Watching a program about Joseph Fritzl from Austria. Horrible. He not only sexually abused his daughter but also his (grand)daughter Kerstin. But also his own daughter.

If you find the title please let me know. It's like "an extreme make-over"

Gina said...

Atardi have a look on here

http://www.tv.com/how-clean-is-your-house/show/28858/summary.html

maybe if you can remember the date you will find the show you want. off to bed now

LittleGreyCell said...

It's Too Posh To Wash!!!

Bye!

Gina said...

Thanks LGC Atardi this is where you can look

http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/T/too_posh_to_wash/index.html

Gina said...

http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/T/too_posh_to_wash/index.html

atardi said...

LGC,Gina and Hope,

If one missed a program here you can watch it online the next day. But for "foreign" programs they don't have the "right" to put them online.

LGC I really hope you can find it tomorrow.

Sleep well everyone.

viv said...

Hiya all

I was just checking my emails and someone referred me to the post from Mr Woolfall in The Times. Aside from everything else it is very interesting re the last pics of Madeleine, as you will see he downloaded the pics which apparently the McCanns were struggling with. As he says it included the tennis balls pic but no mention of the so called last pic. I think this does prove our point. So the tennis balls pic got out because of the intervention of Mr Woolfall I guess they could hardly say no we dont want that one she has a bruise on her arm but I bet that is why he had to rush home and go and create another one. If the tennis balls pic was downloaded so soon how come they did not release it, does anyone know when it did get released>



Beyond Tyneside, Keegan's gleaming smile and enthusiasm mean littleMartin Samuel


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HomeNewsWorld NewsEurope News SHOPMy ProfileSitemapFrom The TimesOctober 6, 2007

I saw Kate and Gerry McCanns’ despair and if they were acting they deserved an Oscar
The PR expert who advised Madeleine's parents in the first weeks of her disappearance offers a new insight into their state of mind
Image :1 of 2
Dominic Kennedy
Gerry and Kate McCann’s on-screen composure in the days after their daughter disappeared was at odds with their turmoil and dread behind the scenes, a witness says today.

The couple swung between uncontrollable distress and a determination to do what was needed to help to find Madeleine. They gave no indication that they thought she had been snatched, let alone by a paedophile. Their early assumption was that she had wandered off and had an accident or been taken in by a well-meaning stranger.

Alex Woolfall, a public relations consultant for the holiday resort where the child disappeared, was with the McCanns regularly for that first fortnight and is convinced that they are innocent. “That they could be involved and in any way be guilty - to me they would have to win every Golden Globe and every Oscar ever awarded,” he told The Times.

Mr Woolfall has provided the first detailed account by an insider of what happened to the McCanns during the desperate days after Madeleine disappeared. He is an expert in crisis PR at the communications group Bell Pottinger and flew to Portugal as part of the Mark Warner holiday company’s emergency response team on Saturday, May 5. Madeleine vanished on the evening of May 3.


Madeleine McCann: the key questions
Why are the "Tapas 9" key to solving the Madeleine mystery?

Related Internet Links
The latest full coverage of Madeleine McCann
Background
McCanns consider interview bids
Madeleine McCann: the global reaction
The forgotten victim in the McCann case
Multimedia
Pictures: searching for Madeleine
Video: McCann family start holiday

He met the couple for the first time at their new apartment. “They were behaving exactly as I thought someone in that situation would be,” Mr Woolfall said. “They had not slept. They were trying to work out what to do that might help generate images of her. They were desperately keen to publicise her face.”

The McCanns had photographs of Madeleine on their digital camera, which Mr Woolfall began transferring to a laptop computer. “I said to Kate, ‘Let’s try to identify pictures where her face is visible’. Downloading the images was a very difficult process for them. It was upsetting.

“They were trying to do two things at once: one, emotionally deal with what was actually, really happening to them; two, operate in some sort of logical way to help get her back.”

Mr Woolfall transmitted the photographs to the Press Association in London, from where they were distributed to the media. The portfolio included the now famous image of Madeleine wearing a hat on a tennis court.

The McCanns wanted to do more. “They were exhausted and despairing but thinking, ‘Should we go outside and say something that might get her back?’ They said they wanted to head downstairs and talk to the media. They were very tired, but that was one thing they were determined to do.”

Mr Woolfall went out to alert journalists and returned to the McCanns. “They wrote down what they wanted to say and went out and gave a short statement. After that, they were completely spent. You could tell there was nothing left.”

Mr Woolfall was surprised by the reaction of British viewers to the couple’s demeanour. “I was struck at the perception of people who had watched Kate and Gerry: that they were very controlled and perhaps were not responding in a way people thought would be more natural. They were not at all controlled. When I was with them, they were between being completely distraught and trying to do what they felt was the right thing.” Armchair detectives have leapt to wild conclusions based on the few alleged details of the case to have emerged. One bone of contention has been whether Mrs McCann, when raising the alarm that Madeleine was missing, screamed: “They’ve taken her.” Some have questioned why a mother would leap to the conclusion that a child had been abducted.

Mr Woolfall says that he heard no suggestion in the early days that the girl had been snatched. “Certainly I did not hear any discussion that this could be a paedophile or an aggravated robbery. All the time I was around it was whether she could have wandered off and had an accident or somebody had actually taken her in, perhaps not with ill-intent.

“During the first 48 hours the word being used was ‘missing’ rather than ‘abducted’ or any link with a paedophile or any sort of crime. Towards the end of the second week I detected a shift towards there being a consciousness that she had probably been taken rather than wandered off, just on the assumption that anybody would have found her by now.”

Many theories have emerged from the claim that Madeleine’s twin sister and brother, aged 2, failed to wake or cry when she vanished. Mr Woolfall said he had not heard of the twins’ alleged silence until he read about it in a newspaper in Britain. The claim was attributed to the Portuguese police.

There has even been a suggestion that Mrs McCann carried her daughter’s Cuddle Cat soft toy because it would look good on TV. “For that to have in any way validity, it would cancel out the fact that these two people hadn’t got a clue about PR or the media,” Mr Woolfall said. “To suddenly be that sophisticated . . . I noticed Kate often had this toy with her. It was Madeleine’s favourite toy and she would go to bed with it. Kate had it with her when she went to church. She had it in the apartment.”

A lingering puzzle for many is why the couple left three children in the flat. “When I first got to Praia da Luz, I asked Mark Warner to put me in the chair at the tapas restaurant that they had sat in and show me where the apartment was,” Mr Woolfall said. “It never struck me that it would be a particularly odd thing to leave your children in that apartment, given that it was so close.

“It is incredibly sleepy and quiet in Praia da Luz. There is no traffic noise. One day when he was standing on a balcony, Gerry was saying how they felt when they first came to the resort. The pool was close, supermarket round the corner. They felt everything was a stone’s throw.”

The McCanns have sometimes irritated observers with the fervency of their do-it-yourself campaign. “When I came back there was criticism: why is this couple out there publicising this, doing interviews, going in front of cameras, going through photo opportunities? If you look at what would have happened in the UK, you would have had, probably within hours, a proactive intervention by British police, who would have said this is the process we now need to go through.

“Kate and Gerry have been largely left to get on with it, with no support in the initial stages, or guidance. They realised the media were a huge potential ally.”

Mr Woolfall recalled how the bewildered couple gradually began to recover their composure. “In the first week they were not thinking. They actually did not think. They were in shock.

“In the second week, Gerry behaved very much like a doctor would do. Doctors are analytical. He started to have much more strategic conversations with me about what they might do. They became more aware that getting Madeleine’s photograph widely distributed in Spain and possibly North Africa was sensible.

“Gerry said to me, ‘We don’t want the awareness that Madeleine has gone missing to disappear overnight, and that we are a family whose child went missing on holiday and that is the end of it. We want to try and find her.’ When I left Portugal, the beginnings of the idea of having a campaign were probably forming.

“They were actually quite hopeful - far more in that frame of mind than despondent and downbeat. They had gone 360 degrees several times through all the different emotional states, but they soon got some good control on things.”

Mr Woolfall left after a fortnight working from 5am to 1am, fending 200 calls a day from journalists as far away as Norway and South Africa. He warned the McCanns that they needed a press officer. “Gerry, I think, spoke to the Consulate and said ‘Can you help us? Because there is a lot of media interest and we cannot manage.’ As a result of that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office flew out Sheree Dodd [an experienced government spokeswoman].”

At first, journalists treated the McCanns with great respect, but there was a free-for-all when the couple took their first unscheduled walk along the beach. “Freelance snappers started to get quite close to them and one or two questions were thrown at them. That was probably the very early stages of the change,” Mr Woolfall said. “It reached a crescendo when the McCanns tried to take their kids to the crèche and were bombarded by snappers and freelancers.”

When the McCanns were made suspects, Mr Woolfall was bemused. “I thought it was ridiculous. I couldn’t believe it. Completely ludicrous.”

Did you suspect them? “My God, no, absolutely not in any way at any stage. I walked into that apartment and just saw two people who were frantic that their daughter had gone missing. Nobody could possibly, if they had anything to do with that, behave in that way for so long.

“It made me laugh rather than be exasperated. From Day One they could not move anywhere without 100 flash bulbs going off. The whole idea that they could have done any of thethings the police were suggesting was farcical.

“You could not pick another couple on the planet that would have had that many cameras trained on them.”

bath theory said...

If they were going on a holiday for fun ie drinking, and sharing who knows what then it seems strange they didn't leave the children with the mum and dad and just go for a long weekend.

I would like to know more about this couple from people who knew them in their work. I am suprised no one has stepped forward to describe their characters and their habits.

I think it likely this holiday was planned for Kate & Gerry. That would imply there was perhaps something wrong with their partnership. I mean what man would leave his wife to bath 3 children under 4 whilst he plays tennis. Maybe Kate was unfulfilled by the children and Gerry was looking elsewhere.

If their relationship was on the rocks it is not a big jump to then see how that could impact onto the children especially as Madeleine was old enough to observe and talk.

I would love to know more about this couples emotional stability before the holiday.

The fact that not one picture of them all together as a family in such lovely surroundings seems extremely odd. This was a holiday and it was the last night of the holiday that Madeleine went missing. So not one family snap ? Too odd for me. Especially if you take inot account their friends. So not one picture of them all together taken by their friends either.

viv said...

I am putting up some pictures of Madeleine getting onto the plane and her hair is really dark like in the tennis balls pic which obviously is genuine. I know from my own children that lovely blond hair does start to go as they get older although it would seem Madeleine may have had tints and highlights on her hair (how odd) I will also put the so called last pic up again so you can compare, they just dont compare do they!

bath theory said...

I am uneasy about this picture too. Do we know if they had been to the resort before. I ask for 2 reasons.

1) Gerry & Madeleine look younger here.
2) It could give us a clue as to whether Gerry knew Murat from a previous holiday trip there.

viv said...

Hiya folks I am quite taken aback by this email it is extremely pleasant and very helpful. I am sure Mariana will not mind me reproducing it here, minus her email address of course:

I am sending her a link so that she can post on here if she wants to and I am sure we would all love her to join us because I think the extra information she has provided is so helpful. Please also check out the video she suggests which is very interesting, locals are saying there is no clue no one seen any sign of a predator etc and a spokesman from Mark Warner is on there embarrassedly pointing out McCanns left window open, apparently and found shutter open.

Hi Viv,

How are you?

My name is Mariana.
I was reading your blog today and I see you too are wondering about the "last" picture.

I have a lot of unanswered questions, not just this picture.

Apparently the tennis court photo is the last one, not the pool one.

Alex Woolfall a public relations consultant, transferred the pictures to the laptop.

The date he did the transfer, is not clear to me. Did he do it on May 4, or on Saturday the 5th?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2599613.ece

On Pamalam's blog look at this page
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/DAYS_301_350.htm

Not to worry about Tuck Price, he is a Murat friend.

then click on the video here http://videos.sapo.pt/cIrWOIO5DFIvUF6dpZf2
Clearly they were distributing photos on the 4th.

Look here at the Interpol site, see the photo here and read further down where there is info about the child's colors of eyes and the mark on her left leg calf.
Left eye blue and green color; Right eye green color with a brown spot in retina; Small brown mark on the left leg calf.

Color of eyes: BLUE, GREEN Height: 0.90 meter <-> 35 inches

http://www.interpol.int/public/data/children/missing/notices/data/2007/03/2007_23403.asp

Madeleine had retinal coloboma, meaning part of the retina was missing.
Retinal coloboma - a notch or cleft of the retina/part of the retina is missing. Example: 35% of the retina is gone, 65% of the retina is gone or 90% of the retina is gone, depending.

The people affected are highly sensitive to light.


Notice the headline on the BBC?
Toddler 'abducted' during holiday, May 4, 2007
Trish Cameron saying the apartment was locked and Kate found door open, window tampered.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/6623127.stm

I hope the links help you.

Take care
Mariana

http://marianafaithful.blogspot.com

atardi said...

Viv,

If you have a photo of Kate, the twins, another kid and Madeleine when they were in a bus, don't know if they were on the bus in Faro? (someone asking Gerald to please smile or smt like that)Can you please put it also here?

Someone (Nancy or Stella)commented about Madeleine's hair lenght.

viv said...

Hiya Bath

I heard one of their prior holidays was Greece but there are two, I dont know whether they have been here before. Kate said there were listening services at the two prior locations they went to. I dont think it is likely she would say that if it can so easily be proved I would have thought they had been there before. I think the link with Murat is more likely the Exeter/political rally connection.

It is really horrible they did not have one single family photo to use. IN the link Mariana gave me it shows the pic they were immediately using was again not an up to date one, her hair is much shorter. Then of course there is the professional black and white family shot. How handy they got this to hand! I suppose it could have been faxed or emailed by family.

Not surprising I suppose there are no family pics, they were not like a family at all were they, all they ever did was dump them. They demonstrate a complete lack of love for their children.

I dont think the shot of Gerry and Amelie is fake because if you took Madeleine away that would be a centred shot. What I find really sinister is if this was taken on 3 May where was Madeleine and Sean, did they get left at home for being naughty the night before and waking up, only Amelie was a good girl. The more I think about this couple the more utterly sickening I find them.

viv said...

Hiya Atardi

That was a video, not a pic, I will find it tomorrow and post it but must go to bed now, shattered. It has been quite an eventful night.

I am sure that pic is a fake and the police are obviously aware of that. No wonder they wont release them from being arguidos and Rosie gets so terribly nasty when we talk about pictures!

Nite nite
Viv x

Cláudia said...

Hello, all.
Just wanted to wish you all a good night. Really tired. This time of year is full of work to do.
Sleep well.

Querida Viv, dorme bem.
Beijinhos!
xxxx

atardi said...

Viv,

Well it's the first time I can say: "Sleep well" to you.

Thank you again for your blog where we can post to get JFM.

viv said...

Nite Nite both

Lots of love
viv xxxx

Ana said...

Hi everyone,

I have been busy with work, so I haven’t been able to post much!
Excellent article Viv! What a different faces they have, being ARGUIDOS surely makes a difference, have we lost Princess Kate and her big smiles? Maybe in the public eyes but, we catch them laughing on BBC when they thought that the camera was off!!! Never thought about their daughter, Shame on them!

I found an interesting "short movie" about the McCanns that was done by students, a final year degree film actually, which will be present at festivals this year.
It is a 10 min film and as far as I am aware it is the first adaptation of the McCanns case.
Here the film, please watch, and tell me what you make of this!:)
It is this film near the reality?

LittleGreyCell said...

Atardi,

Hello. Have tried to find clips of Too Posh To Wash on Youtube to no avail and the programme is not available on the list of watch again options on Channel 4's interactive service. (Don't know why not. Lots of other programmes are).

Have also trailed the net, but can't find the actual tip from them. But I did read somewhere that Steradent - tablets for cleaning dentures (false teeth) - works very well!

Here's a link to the TPTW book on Amazon:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Too-Posh-Wash-Complete-Cleaning/dp/0718147693/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210318194&sr=1-4

Hope this helps!

X

LittleGreyCell said...

P.S. Gina,

Not trying to grasp the mantle of Kim and Aggieness from you here with the cleaning tips!

It won't happen again (don't know any more, anyway!)

:)

Gina said...

LGC Good Morning, I am glad you are able to help Atardi with her question, I cannot get that programme as I loose the signal when it is on.

I just looked on trolls site because I knew someone would have something to say because I posted here yesterday. Apparently Viv is harassing and stalking me!!!! I just posted a reply on there. I guess a complete waste of time as if the truth does not fit their theories they ignore it:-)

Stella said...

The tennis balls photo

Something that has just occurred to me with this photo. If this was during a tennis lesson, Gerry's or Madeleine's, you can bet your bottom dollar Gerry was wearing proper trainers, why wasn't Madeleine. I hardly think wearing open toed sandals is appropriate on hard court, do you?

I believe this image of Madeleine was not originally on that court. I believe the original background was grass.

Ecolab said...

Is this Mr. McCann?

blue fleece

LittleGreyCell said...

Gina,

I can't stress this enough - those people (and I use the word advisedly) on the other site HAVE A JOB TO DO. Nothing you do or write or say - unless you stop posting on here - will cause them to stop laying into you.

It's what they're there for. They are following a brief.

This might be because:-

1. They are family/close friends of the McCanns who can't bring themselves to imagine that K&G have committed crimes and covered them up. They may be in denial about the events, they may have an inkling as to what happened should any crime have occurred, they may indeed believe that something untoward happened but that they should fight tooth and nail in any way possible to get the McCanns off the hook.

2. They may have some sort of association with the McCanns or their acquaintances in some way and have somebody's foot hovering near their backsides for one reason or another.

3. They might be working for media manipulation organizations (do say hello to Julia for me, guys, and pass on my worst to Gordon Brown through Julia's friend, Sarah Brown, won't you) who are hired by those - companies, politicians, individuals - with an agenda to set and brainwash the public into believing.

4. They might be employed - however tenuously, and the lovely posters may not even be aware of it - by some governmental employee with a VIP to protect. The longer we go on talking about this case, the more chance there is of damaging information coming out into the public domain against their protectee.

For these reasons it is impossible to engage in rational, logical, common sense, analytical discourse with them. It simply is not going to happen.

So how do they get us to stop posting here? For this is what they aim to do.

1. Make relentlessly negative and abusive personal comments against the nice, politically-unaware posters like yourself (if you forgive me for calling you politically-unaware - it's meant in the nicest way!) and SM.

They'll say you're scum, you've got mental problems, you've got too many bathrooms, whatever they imagine might upset you.They won't change your minds, but they'll stop you from airing your suspicions and disapproving comments against the McCanns and their Tapas friends. Once again, this is their aim.

2. By 'doubting' what people do for a living, to upset us and try to undermine our standing within this group on here. Thus Docmac is not a doctor, I am not a comedy writer.

This patently has no effect on us whatsoever because we still continue to post on here, but they cannot think of anything else to say to us. I don't give a feck if they say I'm not funny, because they're not employing me and my CV and audiences speak for themselves. They can believe what they jolly well want to believe. :)

And does Docmac give a shot (what a lot of typos today) what they think of him whilst he's working with sick babies? Does it really upset him that some anonymous thugs with an agenda to protect the main suspects in the disappearance of their own child by being as abusive as possible (what a highly moral occupation) don't believe what he says? Of course not.

YOU WON'T EVER CONVINCE THEM TO BE NICE TO YOU, GINA! IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN! EVER!

Sorry to shout, but I see you trying time and time again and not understanding that you're not succeeding.

Everyone is entitled to how they feel, and SM has now left accordingly. But Viv was right yesterday when she said that blogs such as this are important to maintain our ability to express our opinions in a country where freedom of speech is enshrined in law. And if in a civilised society you can't talk about two arguidos who night after night abandoned their very small children to their fate, who can you talk about?

You'll notice that ST's site doesn't attack posters on the 3As quite as much as posters on here. This is because there are plenty of journalists on the 3As who do the investigative stuff the national papers are shamefully not doing, and lots of hard-bitten posters, and generally far too many people to target. And they're afraid of the hard-bitten posters.

But on here, there are a handful of nice people having a discussion about the McCanns who they can aim at and think they can hit. And thus, they imagine, make a difference if they succeed in getting us all to leave it alone, and get Madeleine's disappearance off the public agenda a little bit more.

Their sights are aimed low, and they're not even being successful at those targets.

Just see them, Gina - mostly, together with the odd alcoholics and sickos and rent-a-mob veterans who like a fight about anything - as people following a brief towards achieving a certain outcome.

It's nothing personal, Gina. You just happen not to be on their side.

Sorry about the long post, folks.

Ecolab said...

I have often wondered, why we were shown all this stoneage old photos of Madeleine?
Is it not ”normal”/most common to show the last taken/newest photo of a missing child? Children do change so quickly.

2 years - happy birthday

Ecolab said...

One photolink missing from the 2 years birthday - same dress

happy 2 years birthday sweet Madeleine

mariana faithful said...

Hello Viv and each and every other member on this blog.

Thanks for the invitation Viv, no need for an apology about the trolls.
The morons have nothing better to do, but to disrupt people's thoughts and to stop them from analysing what really happened during the fateful McCann holiday.
Thanks again
Mariana

Gina said...

LCG Thanks for your post. Let me try and make myself clear. I don't give a flying fart whether they like me or not and that is the truth. I saw a post from an anon on there saying she thought Swedish and I were being harrassed and stalked by Viv. When I know as fact that something is untrue I will retaliate and went on their to explain that in no way is Viv pulling my strings. It just went on from there as usual, and you are right it is pointless because even when I reasonably try to explain something I am accused of whingeing and doing the poor me me me act. I find it very odd that telling someone they way it is is considered whingeing but that is their word for me whether it fits the post or not, and I see their word for Bianca is ranting. What they are trying to get me to do is name names and say who I think is right and who is wrong, well they will have a long wait for that to happen because it is childish and pointless. You are right in what you say, the minute anyone posts on here they are condemned even if they do not agree with all that is said. Maybe that is the reason why, although I have nothing much to say on the case anymore, I still post because I do not let ANYONE pull my strings and tell me what I can and cannot do which includes them.

PS the weather here is dreadful and it looks like staying that way for a few days so I cannot get on with what I need to do which is annoying me, now that is a whinge

Wizard said...

Gina, did you know it is impossible to apply logical argument to the insane. You will always be on a loser if you try.

viv said...

Whoops not one of my better posts I will try again

Hiya LGC

thanks for your post about the motives and intentions of McCann trolls.
Gina They intend to be abusive and so what is the point of trying to reason with them! I would be willing to bet some of them have nothing at all to do with the McCanns, they just get their jollies by being abusive on the internet. I want this blog to be for discussing the McCann case and not trolls!

Marianne, how lovely to hear from you.

Gina said...

Wizard, as you know my computer skills are virtually zero but even I have worked out how to get multiple blog names with different ID. So one would have thought that they could have worked out that Viv would not bother to harrass people to make posts when she could easily make them all herself under different ID's, which incidentally they claim she does anyway. So apart from me, I know I am me, perhaps everybody else is Viv!!!!!!:-)

viv said...

Gina

I do not give two hoots what they say about me, please stop!

Whatever they say this blog will continue.

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Hi, Gina.
Glad you did exactly the opposite from what the pros wanted you to do and decided to keep posting. It is always great to see them pissed off. It makes me leave for work with a bigger smile than I normally do. :-)
P.S: I'm also not Viv. :-)


Hi, Viv! :-)
xxxx

nancy said...

Hello everyone, and welcome Mariana!

Ecolab -

Thanks for the link to the beautiful pictures of Madeleine.
She certainly looks happy and well looked after by her parents at the time they were taken.
-----------------------------------

Viv -

Mr.Woolfall says he spent alot of time with Kate and Gerry the first few weeks after Madeleine went missing, including downloading photos from their camera etc. He also said that if they weren't genuinely suffering over Madeleine's disappearance then they were fantastic actors!

The fact that they were devastated, doesn't mean they thought Madeleine had been abducted. I think they were devastated because they knew their action in leaving their children alone had caused the disappearance (or fatal accident) of Madeleine. Or, as many people think, she was maybe given an overdose. Either of those scenarious, or the worry of losing the twins if they were charged and convicted, would devastate them in my opinion.

I think that Mr.Woolfall is being very naive in believing they were completely innocent because they were acting like normal parents would who had lost a child.

Nx

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

I smile that the McCanns are still being investigated as the prime suspects because that means justice is being done. That does put them in a very ugly mood. I too am happy that Gina sees through them and is not letting it stop her from posting.

I am also not Claudia:-)

Viv xxxxxx

Gina said...

Viv, I know you don't care, but to accuse you of pulling my strings was not on as far as I was concerned.

If you no longer wish me to post on here I accept your decision. As I said to them everybody is theorising and they have a right to do that. I personally just dislike the McCanns for they way they have conducted themselves throughout this case, giving no regard to who gets hurt, or has their life disrupted. They blame everybody but themselves, and they WHINGE because the monster they have created, ie over exposure in the press is out of their control in foreign countries. Not everybody wants to join their fan club, including myself.

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

It does seem that we have been given this image, quite deliberately IMO of Madeleine, not as she was, but when she was much younger and seemingly more wanted and better cared for. Even in all the pictures they put out, they seek to con and manipulate.

Mr Woolfall is a PR man, there to smooth things for his employers, Mark Warner. We need to take his remarks in context I think. As you say the McCanns would be devastated at the position they were in and with police officers suspecting them from the very outset as they clearly did.

Gina I did not ask you not to post any longer. Your views on the conduct of the McCanns are very welcome on here. No one is telling you that you have to adopt someone else's opinion. There are a number of posters including yourself who do not feel they can accept the McCanns killed Madeleine but I like very much. Everyone is entitled to their own view and there is no requirement to just agree with me. In fact if people just did that I would be bored stiff xxxxx

mariana faithful said...

Hi Nancy,
Thanks for the welcome, I am happy to be here.

ecolab
Are you certain the link is Mr McCann? lol. His name is Max and he is 11 years old.

SwedishMum said...

I hope you all can find it in your hearts to forgive me for posting again even though I said I wouldn’t the other day. I can promise you it won’t be a habit. However, the habit of reading these sites is hard to break and I haven’t managed that quite yet.

So, with the purpose of correcting a few misconceptions – here I am again.

First of all, I find the idea that Viv somehow should be stalking me and Gina preposterous. Anyone who thinks I left for that reason hasn’t understood a thing about me or my views. If Viv had actually been stalking me I can promise you that her site would have been gone by now. I may seem nice to some but I’m really not that nice and I would never hesitate to take action. So, as I said – preposterous! Quite in the same range as some conspiracy theories that I’ve read on the different sites (both Pros and Antis, I may add).

Well, to move on, I’d like to thank all those on Viv’s blog who wrote so nicely to me when I left – I’ve really enjoyed getting to “know” you. And to be frank, I’ve enjoyed “knowing” some on the other blogs as well.

I wrote above that I’m not as nice as some of you seem to believe but I do believe in trying to be honest and trying not to hurt people. (I like everyone else sometimes fail though and those are failures I (and others) have to live with. But what many should remember is that “sorry” isn’t really the hardest word.) Neither am I politically-unaware (yes, I read it LGC :-) and no offence taken), my reasons for leaving are more a result of this not being my battle to fight. It’s primarily a battle for the British and the Portuguese and since I’ve had my say (and really don’t have much more to say) I’m out of here.

I would finally like to add that I can’t understand why so many have to see something sinister in everything that the “opposite side” is doing or has done.
- Why on earth should we all presume that the justice system in Portugal is so corrupt that they sentence people (who btw have confessed) for killing their daughter and niece? When the vast majority of such cases all over the world turn out to be “close to home”. I find that kind of argumentation rather rude to the citizens of a foreign country. Wrongful verdicts appear in every country, but to presume they are wrongful is IMO rude.
- On the other hand I find it hard to understand why we have to see malice in everything the McCanns have done. For instance that sequence with Madeleine and her little friend boarding the plane. I can see myself letting my daughter do the same when she was that age and I can see how proud she would have been (I can also see me blaming myself for allowing it once she had fallen – but kids do fall and hurt themselves, and forget it the minute thereafter). That it was a big moment for the two girls is apparent since someone actually made the effort of taping it.

I could go on pointing out what I find strange but I won’t since this post is long enough already (for which I hope you forgive me – again).

Once again then,

Bye all
From Swedish Mum

Ps. Gina, don’t let anyone get to you. It’s not worth it. I think you’re great! xxx

Gina said...

Viv I misunderstood you, I thought when you said stop it you preferred me not to post. My view are this I have never worked out how an abductor got out without waking the child bla bla bla, or how the McCanns managed to dispose of their child and carry on in the way they have. However I am not naive enough to think that it is not possible and therefore keep an open mind on that subject.

I am still of the opinion that John Stalker was right when he said they group are hiding a dark secret. What that secret is I have no idea, but I fear it is nothing more than protecting someone who did not want to be seen as being there and as a result of this "pact" the McCanns are receiving a lot of help that they do not deserve to have. Meaning more than any other parents in the same position.

Whether the PJ got it wrong is still questionable but no way do I think that they ever fitted up the McCanns or took the easy way out. The easy way out IMO was to go along with the abduction theory as many police forces have tried and failed to find missing children

I sincerely hope that all the theories that are being put forward on the photos have been investigated by those who can take action. Maybe some of the theories that are posted are valid, who knows.

As I have nothing worth while to contribute at the moment, I think I will go and turf out my wardrobe (then put it all back again!) and if you don't mind return later with general chit chat.

Marianne - Welcome, be warned you have two a´s in your name so it will be presumed you are Alsabella by the detective trolls

viv said...

Hiya Gina

Maybe we are not "theorising", we are looking at their conduct, just like you do x

Cláudia said...

Hello,querida Viv.
Yhey also make me smile, Viv. Sometimes, I can almost see their red faces and the drulfrom their anger. Let's say it is like waking up, opening the windows and seeing how good the weather is. It just makes you smile. When was the arguido status supposed to have been lifted? Late last year, was it? lololol
Life is great! :-)

I'm glad we can agree you're not me and I'm not you! :-)

xxxx

SwedishMum said...

A little PS:
If you think my post looks strange it's probably because I tried to post it on ST's site as well - but I don't know if she has accepted it or not.

Gina said...

Swedish, I feel exactly the same way as you, it is a pity we did not exchange email addresses long ago then we could have talked more. I was going to leave also, but I decided not to. Ofcourse you have to take the stick for that by saying you are going then coming back, but to hell with what a load of faceless cybers think, I will do what I want. I have run out of things to say about this case too but we cannot keep going over the same things day in and out and often go off topic (well I do!!!) Why not come back from time to time for a chat about nothing as we used to, we can do it if Viv doesn't mind and she can always tell us to blog off if she doesn't like it. Hope to hear from you again xx

dolores said...

Viv,
The postman has been.
XX D

Hello to all :)

Cláudia said...

Mariana (what a beautiful and so Portuguese name!), welcome. :-)

Swedish Mum, the only thing we cannot forgive you is losing you. As I said before, you are one of the nicest people I met during DE times.

viv said...

The police have to start with a hypothesis or theory as to what may have happened and then see if the investigation supports that theory. If it does not then they have to change tack and investigate matters from another angle. This is exactly what the PJ have done. True they may have suspected the McCanns from the off and there was plenty there to make them do so, particularly I would have thought the discrepancy about whether they left the door open, because no reasonable parent would do that. But the PJ had what they were entitled to assume could have been reasonable evidence from four of the McCanns friends that Murat was implicated in the abduction of Madeleine. So they have investigated that very vigorously but all lines of enquiry suggested to the PJ their information was false. Absolutely no one else in PDL saw any sign of an abduction or Murat hanging around etc. So, the police started to pursue another theory and a more compelling one. This ultimately led to the McCanns being named arguidos with the discovery of forensic evidence and other items in the apartment e.g. an incriminating book etc which would certainly not be normal holiday reading. People, myself included, have always wanted to believe the McCanns were telling the truth, we wanted to be wrong, and we wanted Madeleine found. However, the police case is that Kate McCann is responsible for her death and Gerry helped cover that up and dispose of the body. This has produced a fierce debate. I am on the side of law and order and the integrity of the police. My own views coupled with the police views tell me the McCanns are guilty but we continue to explore and enquire which is a natural thing to do because at the end of the day, no one could be wholly certain about what happened without sight of all the evidence. My own stance is essentially I believe in the police and can think of no good reason why both British and Portuguese Police would just keep on investigating these parents if there was any prospect they could be wrong. From everything I see I think they are most certainly right and I want Kate and Gerry McCann brought to court to face what they did, I want Justice for Madeleine and the protection to other children that their conviction would help to bring.

SwedishMum said...

Gina,

Viv has my e-mail and it's ok if she forwards it to you. x

Claudia,

I have to do this (for me). I will however miss you. x

mariana said...

hey Gina
I am Mariana, not Alsabella and I have removed the faithful to confuse the morons.

Wizard said...

Gina I know you say you are not sure what happened on the night of 3rd May and no one can be a 100% certain unless they were there, but surely if the dogs picked up the scent of corpse in apartment 5A and no one else had gone missing or died how did that scent get there. The scent of a corpse comes after a person has been dead for two hour therefore there cannot have been an abduction. There is no way around this fact.

What is uncertain is exactly when Madeleine died, how she died and what caused her death. These are the thing people theorise and speculate about. We do not have the pj files, we are not able to cross reference witness statements we can really only go by reports in the public arena and likely scenarios.

Cláudia said...

SM, I will miss you too.

Gina said...

Swedish I have lost the email address I gave Viv in my computer or deleted or something so I will never get any posts on it. Sorry you are going though.

Mariana, as long as you know who you are hun that is all that matters:-)

Off now to do something that is a waste of time that needs doing

SwedishMum said...

Well Gina,

C'est la vie! xxx

Gina said...

Wizard Forensics are way out of my league although I know what you are saying. I think 2345 gave so much detail she confused me even more so I just left it that if the PJ had enough evidence to charge on that score they would. It seems to me that perhaps although they are sure Madeleine died in the apartment, they have not got enough to prove it without the body, which I doubt now will ever be found

Gina said...

Swedish just remember one thing, if you find yourself reading the blogs you have not gone. I think it best to no stay on the fence with that decision, either don't read them at all or read them and post if you feel like it. xx

mariana said...

Viv

I agree with you.
Madeleine died in the appartment.
I am trying to work out the time of the incident.
I am not sure how many people and who, had seen Madeleine on May 3rd, exept of course the McCann's and their friends.
I am sure the resort, has logs for the children's club.
O'Donnell cannot verify Madeleine was on the tennis court.
The nannies are not much help either.

The Kennedy visit to Portugal to see Robert Murat sound suspicious to me.
Is it that Robert is more of a witness rather than anything else?
Did he see something, earlier in the morning of May 3rd?

Cláudia said...

Gina,exactly. Unfortunately, Madeleine died on the 3rd of May 2007 in apartment 5a. The dogs (who don't lie and who aren't corrupt) know it and so does the police. Knowing it is one thing, proving it, another one. I also think the body will never be found. Remember the challenge: find the body and prove it...

viv said...

Swedishmum

How lovely to see you back, if only briefly. As Claudia says you are one of the nicest people and the only thing we cannot forgive you for is leaving.

I really do appreciate both you and Gina pointing out that of course I do not stalk anyone. It is them that have repeatedly stalked me, forcing me to close this blog to members only which was certainly not what I wanted to do. I wanted it to be open to all posters, regardless of their views, but I still need people to be polite and not post repetive obscene filth just to get this blog closed down and Supertroll/Assassin clearly stated they intended to do. There are many weird people about and the web is a happy hunting ground for people who like to be abusive and stalk others. I do not think this character has any real interest in the McCann case, she just keeps opening different blogs, many of a very sexualised nature to pursue her own perverse desires. As such it is not really very productive to engage with her at all. Those who do seek to support the McCanns have latched on to her as a further means of attacking and trying to shut up anyone who dares to criticise the McCanns. We are entitled to do so and to want them brought to justice for what they did. Many have stated and I agree the admitted negligence in itself is so serious they should be dealt with for that. We should all remember the law is there to protect victims and Madeleine beyond any doubt was the victim of terrible parenting by Kate and Gerry McCann. We all know that when we take our children abroad, we will be bringing them back again because we will not expose them to serious risk of harm.

I am not aware of anyone seeing malice in Madeleine being allowed to board the plane, it is simply posted to demonstrate that her hair is much darker and longer than on the picture which Gerry McCann produced three weeks later, claiming it was the last picture of Madeleine.

At the end of the day I think you are right, it is a battle for the Portuguese and British, for the integrity of the police and the right to pursue suspects without a bizarre backlash from the suspects and their supporters. I think it is precisely that, that keeps us all posting. I have to say that I think the attacks on the Portuguese, the PJ and individual officers is simply appalling and really does need countering - it is racism which I hate!

I hope you can pop in sometimes but can certainly understand anyone thinking they need to make a break from this case, because it is compulsive.

Viv x xxx

Di said...

Good afternoon Viv and all

I have not been around for a few days, I received my new laptop and could not connect to the internet. I messed up all the wireless settings and lost the connection on my other laptop, lesson learnt, leave it to the experts.

Talk about having withdrawal sysptoms wondering what was going on. I will have a quick read and see if I have missed anything.

Cláudia said...

Mariana, key time between 6 and 8:30!

Di said...

One thing hasn't changed, I still make typos :o)

SwedishMum said...

Thanks Viv,

And btw, I didn't mean that you said that there was anything wrong with Madeleine being allowed to board the plane with her friend. It was in reference to an older discussion.
x

mariana said...

claudia

I have thought of that timeline.

Isn't it too short a time to plan the aftermath?
This is the main reason I am trying to verify who had seen Madeleine in the morning.
Right now, I am not sure if GM played tennis that afternoon.

viv said...

Hiya Di

Great to see you back and sorry you got withdrawal symptoms. Luke and I changed over to wireless not long ago and we had many times when I simply could not get on the web and we kept changing settings etc desperately trying, I know it can be very frustrating. I still moan I want my old modem back because it worked better!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Mariana, the police are quite sure that Madeleine was alive before 6.

Have to go to work now.
Have a great afternoon, all!

viv said...

Hi again Mariana

We do not seem to have really clear information about the whereabouts of the McCanns and their children during the day. You seem to be really good at finding out and so if you can keep us updated on that it would be very helpful and interesting. It is confusing when some reports say at 6 he went for his third tennis lesson that day but others say he had an achilles injury. Although I am sure, the McCanns deliberately put out different contradictory versions onto the web so that people will say, oh what's the point of trying to find out and discuss there is just such a vast amount of confusing rubbish out there. I have always tried to cut through the rubbish and just stick to the basics, I think that helps and it is what the prosecutor will do at the end of the day when it gets to court, stick to the relevant facts that prove the prosecution case, although evidence of many contradictory lies does also help to prove a prosecution case!

Viv x

Di said...

Hi Viv

Tell me about it, the instructions seemed to be easy, how wrong I was. I had to phone Tech help and it took over half an hour to sort out. Can't wait to see my husbands face when the phone bill arrives :o)

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

Thanks for confirmation the police know Madeleine was alive before 6 - that is certainly my own view, the relevant time is between 6 and 8 or 6.30 and 8.

I hope you have a great afternoon at work hun. The weather is much duller and cooler here today, I hope it is good for you in Pt.

Luv Viv x

mariana said...

The McCann's have said, that they took the twins to the Payne apartment afterwards.
They say they spend the rest of the night there, after the police was called.

Yet there is doubt, about the whereabouts of the twins before KM yelled "they 've taken her".
Please read here: Charlotte Pennington

viv said...

Hiya again Mariana

Just read back to one of your above posts. I most certainly do think Robert is a witness and a very serious one. I firmly believe he knows the McCanns and was set up by them and their friends, this will be a central feature of the case.

Luke has just reminded me I had a hair appt at 2 which I forgot - going to fly!

Viv x

Wizard said...

Wireless routers – this struck a nerve when it was mentioned. I used to have broadband with a modem that was plugged into my desk top computer. Now we have 2 other laps tops and we needed a wireless router to allow the laptops to access the net. A health warning for all those tempted into an Orange ‘Live box’. Had this system for 3 weeks now initially after following the installation instructions we couldn’t get on line so we had to make 3 calls to Orange’s Indian call centre help line and over 3 hours of guidance from them at 7p a minute failed to remedy the situation. In desperation I called in a professional who got it all working and charged me £60.00. The system comes with a 2nd line phone which allows free calls, an added bonus you would think, but before you run out and buy this system the phone worked perfectly for two weeks but has now gone dead and cannot be used. More telephone calls to Indian call centre and new connections were sent all to no avail the second line still does not work.

At the moment I can’t face calling up Orange’s Indian call centre again just yet as I might be tempted to throw the ‘Live box’ out the window. No doubt Orange will bill me for breakages.

Stella said...

Wizard

You asked me yesterday what I thought Murat might know that could damage the McCann’s? IMO, I think it will turn out to be two things

1. Deatils of a very important address, a location that brings this group together for reasons other than holidaying.

2. Murat knows the name of the VIP who legged it out of their fast.

Sorry it’s taken so long to come back to you, I am never on here at night as I am always far to tired and go to bed very early. But I always read back.

Ecolab said...

Another Photographic Manipulation and implication/ compromizing Murat ??

from : PAULO Reis, of gazetadigital, in Portugal
Robert Murat came back to Portugal, days before Madeleine was kidnapped, and he was accompanied by another man.
Murat spend around 10 days in UK and was in Exeter, where his sister Samantha lives, for some time. Local witnesses, in UK, confirmed that Robert Murat was seen with another man in his 40’s, 1.70/1.75 meters tall, short hair and tanned skin. Those witnesses couldn’t give more details of his face because the man was using a hat. They left Faro airport and Murat went to Praia da Luz, while the other man stayed near Lagos city. Questioned about this detail, Portuguese CID refused to comment.
Exeter is the place were Russel O’Brien and Jane Tanner, McCann friends that were with them at Ocean Resort, live. A possible connection between the couple and Robert Murat was referred by the Press, but both Murat the McCann’s spokesman denied they ever met. Russel O’Brien and Jane Tanner moved to Exeter four weeks before they came to Portugal, on vacations, with the McCann couple.
Jane Tanner was the witness that told Police she saw a man carrying a child, near the apartment 5A, at Ocean Resort, around 9.30pm, the night Madeline disappeared. The description she gave was later made public by Portuguese CID, on May 25: a white male, approximately 35 to 40 years old, of medium build, and 1,70/1.75 meters tall, wearing a dark jacket, and had light beige trousers and dark shoes.
We showed several photos, taken during the first days of the searches for Madeleine to the British witnesses that confirmed Murat was accompanied by other man, in his return to Portugal, but the man wasn’t among those pictured. One of those witnesses noticed that a person who was on the pictures, talking with Robert Murat and following a canine unit of GNR (Portuguese Rural Police) was also in several web pages, but near Gerry McCann, Madeleine and the twins.
The picture (1) was taken before Madeleine was kidnapped, and is clear that the place is inside the Ocean Resort. The man in question, with shaved hair, sunglasses and strongly build, appears in several photos, published in British and Spanish newspapers, among Police officers and close to Robert Murat. Our question to Portuguese CID about this man received the same answer: no comments, details of the investigation are covered by Secrecy Law.

picture 1 – zoom out

picture 1 – zoom out

The impossible 120 grados foot

The impossible 120 grados foot

Wizard said...

According to Bridgette O’Donnell they were a number of blond girls of the same age as Madeleine who all looked very similar at the crèche. The crèche had a system whereby the parents signed in their child/children and signed them out again when they picked them up. This type of system is far for foolproof if you have a mind to falsify an entry. The crèche is not like a normal day nursery in England where children go regularly and are known, there was a constant turn around of children each week with some children going everyday and others now and again. This imo would lead to confusion by staff about who was there and who was not.
It would have been possible say for the McCanns to turn up with the twins and say Tanners daughter (same age as Madeleine) but sign her in as Madeleine. It would all be too easy if you had the nerve.

If you read the mccann files there does not appear to be any independent witnesses on sightings of Madeleine on the day of the 3rd May whatsoever. The parents continually put into the public arena what Madeleine was supposed to have said on the 3rd May unfortunately they were the only ones who allegedly heard her say anything and of course remain the prime suspects.

nancy said...

Mariana -

It's a coincidence that you put a link to Charlotte Pennington, because I was reading up on her yesterday on the McCann files. I wasn't really au fait with all she had said. According to what I have read CP has an uncanny knack of being a bit of a Houdini!

1. She said the McCanns and Madeleine had high tea with her just before 6.00pm.

2. She said that she witnessed Kate's emotional state and that she was with them within 5 minutes of the alarm being raised.

3. She said she was also outside the supermarket when she saw Robert Murat and a man talking together, who apparently matched the description of the 'creepyman'

4. She also saw the man in the small boat with a yellow jacket kicking a large package - which supported the McCann's theory about Madeleine being taken by boat to Morocco! She said she saw this at midnight, and if that's true, just what was she doing there at that time of night?

5. She said she was there to see someone hanging around the Ocean Club the night of the 3rd, thereby giving support to the McCann's implication that it was Robert Murat who was involved in some way.

She apparently arrived at the MW holiday complex on the same day that the McCann's arrived there.

I wouldn't consider her to be a really credible witness, no more than Jane Tanner is! In fact I would say she is more of a hindrance than a help to the McCanns!

I have never seen her being interviewed - do you know of a link to any Mariana?

nancy said...

Ecolab -

Thanks for that very interesting blog and the links! Just who is that very distinctive,and well built, tall man with a bald head and sunglasses - firstly in a photo with Robert Murat and also in the background of the photo of Gerry and the children in the gardens at Praia de Luz? It would be very interesting to find out! However, it looks as though the police want to keep that under wraps for the time being and they must have good reason!

Nx

nancy said...

Gina -

So pleased you are staying with us, at least for the forseeable future. The more the merrier I say, and anyway we have something in common living here in good old Espana!!! Bit nippy today though eh?

How did the Estate Agency biz go? Very quiet here at the moment - the same as in the UK! Far too much building has been going on and now the banks won't give out the mortgages, so they will be staying empty!!

Nancy x

Stella said...

Nancy

You were asking about Charlotte Pennington. If you go on 3A's site under Panorama transcript you should see what she actually said on that program.

Stella said...

Nancy

So sorry, must have had to much sun today, I meant on McCannfiles, not the 3A's site......oops

nancy said...

Hi Stella -


Thanks for that info: I'll do that later! Bit of a coincidence she seemed to be a witness to a lot of what the McCanns and tapas pals had to say!

Nx

Stella said...

Nancy

I have always had my doubts about Ms Pennington, it was said that one of the OC nannies returned to the UK, I would not be the least bit surprised if it is her.

I din't know you were in Spain. My husband and I thought about it, but due to my poor health and needing very expensive drugs we had to stay in the UK. We have just recently moved to the Kent coast and enjoying very sunny days on the beach, so when we close our eyes we pretend we are in Spain...

mariana said...

Hello ecolab

The man in wuestion is Murat's friend Tuck Price. You can see the playground man here: playground man

You may also see the pool picture that Viv has posted with the full pool pattern pool pattern.

Hi wizard

I have searched everywhere to find an independent witness who had seen Madeleine during May 3rd.
I cannot find any and this detail has been bothering me all along.

O'Donnell says that someone knocked on their door about 1:00 am, to notify them that Madeleine was missing. Jes asked if there was something he could do but the person said no.
Why would anyone wake people up if there was nothing they could?


Hi Nancy

The two links I got are here:
Pennington Pennington

mariana said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mariana said...

This one from the Sun The Sun Pennington and this one from the Daily Mail here Daily Mail Pennington

mariana said...

interesting photoshopped pool photo from Gerry McCanns Blogs

ratonthebeam said...

Guys, I don't know if you heard about this yet, but another excellent and informative anti-McCann blog, cuttingthroughtherubbish, has been removed from blogspot. Here is a quote from the blog owner.

Just to let everyone know that it is not through fear of libel that I removed “Cutting through the Rubbish” from the internet, although if Clarence had his way I’m sure we’d all be for the chop – despot that he is. I closed the blog because I felt after having seen how well connected these individuals are, that maybe it would be prudent not to be seen as an irritation. I doubt one minnow would be any match for a shoal of piranha.

The only reason I would personally pursue this any further would be if it were my child whose fate was in question.

Perhaps you will/would agree that this is no simple abduction.


Interesting times, no? BTW if you are still reading Swedish, I am sorry to see you go. You were often the voice of reason in lots of places, and I wish you well, whatever you decide to do.

nancy said...

Stella -

Yes, me too - and I'm sure she once said that Madeleine had high tea with her and the McCanns on the night of the 3rd and then changed her mind and said she only saw them in the evening when they raised the alarm. The trouble is you get such conflicting stories don't you? Unless, I read it wrongly!

I'm sure you are happy in the garden of England - Kent - although no-one who comes to Spain with ill health should let that put them off. The health service here is fantastic - very clean hospitals, kind nursing staff, and up to date treatment and drugs. Nothing is too much for them here and they especially look after their older patients because they respect them. However, there are also drawbacks, like lots of red tape, and if you can't speak the language it can be a problem when dealing with hospitals etc, although it's true to say many of them do speak English, especially the younger ones who learned at school. So enjoy lovely Kent and come out to Spain for hols!!

Off for a walk now Stella, so I'll catch you later!

Nancy x

nancy said...

Mariana -

thanks for those - I'm going to have a busy but interesting evening!

Nx

nancy said...

Hello Rat - nice to see you!


What a shame she (or he) has decided to close the blog! She was obviously upsetting some people by getting too near to the truth!!

However, I can understand how she came to that decision. None of us is any match for devious forces that can be at work quite honestly. Many people have found that out to their cost!!

Nx

Wizard said...

Why indeed Mariana – imo to knock people up at that time of night was a ploy just to make sure they knew an abduction took place – in other words to put in their minds an abduction rather than anything else occurred and to stop speculation.

Ecolab said...

Gorgeous picture:

Madeleine

mariana said...

Therefore, wizard, we can assume that whoever that person was, -who knocked on the door- was part of the plan to cover it up.

We can easily assume then, that Jes Wilkins was the spoiler.
He had messed up the plan.

Stella said...

Mariana

I like your way of thinking, on who knocked on the door...

Wizard said...

Today’s Telegraph tells us:- The BBC have had to apologise to the McCanns for being insensitive and scheduling a film about a runaway girl called Madeleine on the anniversary of their daughter disappearance.

It make you wonder who the McCanns should apologise to but then the list would be too long.

Wizard said...

Mariana - perhaps - or perhaps the man who hammered on the door was just following orders. He might have been used by the McCanns.

Ana said...

Hi everyone,

The new PJ leader was officially endorsed (take charge) today; he left a message for all the Portuguese and to the world:

"The PJ will not give a back step and when it does you may all have the certainty that is to take balance to move forward!"

I found this message very telling; whatever happens we must keep focus that the truth sooner or later will be known! PJ will never give up, us neither!

nancy said...

Hi Ana -

Thanks for letting us know that. I wish him all the best in his new post! I especially liked the bit about moving forward!!! Bring it on PJ's!


Nx

nancy said...

Hi Wizard -

I'll have to go back and read the Telegraph again - I missed that.

When you come to think of it, the BBC, as usual, are unbelievably crass to call the child Madeleine on their proposed screening, but I can't see why the media have to keep apologising for anything that might upset the McCanns! What about the way they have caused the whole world, and especially Portugal, to be turned upside down through their unbelievable actions, and those of their tapas pals, of leaving their children alone. Madeleine would still be here if they had acted like caring parents instead of like a couple of irresponsible 30 somethings into their friends!!

Ana said...

Nancy,
Gonçalo Amaral was present at the possession´s ceremony!The message was directly to all the police inspectors which were present at the time and to the world!

Cláudia said...

Ana, tell me all about it. I was working and haven't managed to do some phone calls! :-)

mariana said...

Stella

Oldfield and O'Brien are doctors and Payne is a surgeon.
Payne is the one who looks like Robert Murat.

wizard

I would think that none of them were just "used" by the McCann's.
They were all there at the club and they knew each other's movements.

Ana said...

Hello Claúdia,
How are you Hun?
As you know, today was Amaral Rodrigues´s possesion as PJ new leader. A lot of inspectors were present, which is normal but, there was a surprise: Gonçalo Amaral-The Great, was there!You can read all about it in the Expresso online news!

Ana said...

Cláudia,
Expresso online

mariana said...

Hello Ana, how are you?

Can you clarify one little matter for me please?

Are the inspectors invited to this ceremony, or they just show up?

If Gonçalo Amaral was invited, it could mean something.

Cláudia said...

Hello, Ana! :-)
Thank you.
I'm fine. Hope you're as good as I am! :-)
I'll check the link right away. But I already made my phone calls so I'm more up to date now! :-)
Liked Almeida Rodrigues' metaphor... :-)

leigh3 said...

Hiya Viv,
Just want to read back on comments, but before then, I agree with you that Mr Wolfall is a witness. How inconvenient for some.
See you soon. Just want to back track.
xo
leigh

Ana said...

Mariana,
Glad you are here, always liked read your blog!
Concerning you question, I really don’t know the answer but I assume that there are some kinds of restrictions when a ceremony like that happens, I think that only the directors are allowed to assist and he still is a director…

mariana said...

Thank you Ana,
Some people may have a heart attack if Amaral was placed in charge again. lol.

Ana said...

One thing is for sure: Gonçalo is happy with this possession otherwise he wouldn’t go there!

Ana said...

Mariana,
He doesn´t want that, sadly!

Cláudia said...

Ana, exactly! ;-)

Ana said...

Cláudia,

I liked too!lol

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