11 May 2008

HOURLY, NOT HALF HOURLY CHECKS - JILL RENWICK

Gerry's photoshopped fake where he adds Madeleine, aged approximately 3 not 4 years and see below for Docmac's photoshopped version..where at least the face is aged 4. Rather spooky but shows how easy it is!
Docmac spent 5 minutes photoshopping up to date facial image of Madeleine (from the tennis balls pic) onto that fake picture, just to show how easy it it..he even messed around with hair and shadows et voila!



HI All I do think it is helpful to look back because the McCanns change tack so much. In October the psychologist, Corner, Philomena and Gerry gave an interview to Vanity Fair where he admitted there was only a very slim chance of finding Madeleine. Miraculously, months later, this has now become a very good chance. I would be interested to learn why everyone took part in this with the exception of Kate McCann, did she feel she just could not pull it off, so soon after being named an Arguida but Gerry was not going to let that bother him. After all he needed to fight right back and carry on making lots of cash. Strange though that Oprah Winfrey's offer to go on her show in June 07 never got accepted, that would have been a lot of cash but perhaps did not fulfill Gerry's other requirement - that he writes the script.

The whole of this article confirms that Kate and Gerry McCann sat all night ringing their friends and family including Corner the media man.. telling them they left the door locked and the shutters got trashed and the window jemmied. Clarence Mitchell subsequently was forced to admit there was no sign of any break in and of course the McCanns quickly changed their story to make themselves look even more negligent, better that than admit killing Madeleine, they figure. Negligence one can negotiate with the police, murder or manslaughter...non-negotiable!

What I find really interesting about this article is the comments of Jill Renwick a woman the McCanns had worked with at a Scottish Hospital 10 years previously. Well how odd to give her a call at 3 am to tell her their daughter got abducted! I have never been able to figure out why Gerry made a check at 9 when it seems patently clear to me they made checks every hour, not every half hour. Gerry is the sort of person who would very much be influenced by the clock, he needs set routines, order and control, and as we know, is never seen without his watch on. Following what happened the previous night as Kate says they were going to keep a closer eye on their children, what by checking them every hour instead of leaving them to cry all night! Jill very plainly says they went out about 8 NOT 8.30 and so checked at 9 and then again at 10, every hour on the hour! Wilkins partner says he saw Gerry around 8.30, I think he went back to do some work, after some of the others arrived so he could leave Kate, otherwise she would have been alone, as they arrived early. I recall the way he slyly said, there was only one couple there when we arrived and then they left so we were on our own..maybe they needed another drink. I am wondering whether he did a 9 pm check at all or whether he was missing most of the evening (in between 8.30 and 9.30) until he returned to the table at 9.30 and called a woman over to prove he was there... confident in the knowledge O'Brien has taken over for him and of course keeping in touch with all those texts to co-ordinate matters, again typical Gerry, everything had to be precisely timed and got right. The abduction was originally "timed" to take place in between 9.30 and about 9.45 and this is the time Gerry gives in Panorama (before the end November strategy meeting at the Rothley Hotel which would be bug free guys) hence he had to make sure he was back at the table when "it" took place so he could not be implicated. I knew I was not mistaken in being confused whether Jane was supposed to be just going out or going back to do a check because there are two different versions for this also. I have read tonight, at 9.30 she was rushing out to meet her friends. The preferred version they finally seem to have settled on now is that Tanner went back to do a check at 9.15 and that is when Madeleine was taken. Maybe silly Tanner told Police the wrong time in the first place and she had to stick to that.. Given the police have all these contradictory versions of where they were and what the time was it is little wonder they want them to do a reconstruction and pin them down to what they are now saying. I wonder why they are now sticking with Tanner's version, and contradicting the time he gives in Panorama, it seems to me the woman must have been foolish enough to stick to her guns on this when interviewed and given no one else can corroborate her sighting no one can actually call her a liar, can they? Well I will:-) I think the trouble is with them having all this time to get their stories straight that is exactly what it looks like, and no doubt what the police were banking on. If you know you are in trouble and one lie you have told can be proved to be a lie, you just on and tell another one, desperately seeking to get out of trouble, that is if you are a lying criminal, desperate to get yourself out of a lengthy spell in jail and proceeds of crime stripped from your bank accounts... not something either of them would relish given all the effort they went to amass a nice little fortune. Shame they could not go ahead with the film, Prosecutor/Judge/ PJ's just extended their arguido status for another three months! How annoying for them!

Viv x

From The Times
May 5, 2007
Parents checked sleeping child every half-hour - but still she was abducted
to not show photographer information --> to not show image description --> to not show enlarge option -->
David Brown in the Algarve and Rajeev Syal
A desperate search for a three-year-old British girl continued last night after she disappeared from an upmarket beach resort in Portugal while her parents dined near by.
Despite their half-hourly checks on her as she slept, Madeleine McCann went missing from her parents’ rented holiday apartment in the Algarve on Thursday night as they ate tapas only 50 yards away.
Relatives claimed that she had been abducted from the Ocean Club resort, run by the holiday company Mark Warner, in the seaside village of Praia da Luz.
Her parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, both 38-year-old doctors from Rothley, Leicestershire, were being comforted last night by friends and consular officials.
Related Links
Resorts are popular because of childcare facilities
Madeleine, known as Maddy, vanished after being left to sleep between her brother and sister, two-year-old twins.
Mr McCann and his wife, who was clutching Madeleine’s pink teddy bear to her chest, made a public appeal last night for the return of their daughter.
Mr McCann said: “Words cannot describe the anguish and concern we are feeling at the loss of our daughter Madeleine. We now request that if you have any information about Madeleine’s disappearance, no matter how trivial, contact the Portuguese police so we can have her back. Please, if you have Madeleine, let her come back to mummy, daddy and her brother and sister.”
The family have moved to another apartment 150 yards from the one from where their daughter is said to have been taken.
The McCanns went to Portugal last Saturday with a group of eight couples, friends said. Mr McCann, a cardiologist, and his wife, a GP, went out for a meal at a tapas bar within the complex at 8.30pm on Thursday, leaving Madeleine sleeping between Sean and Amelie, the twins. The couple checked on their children every half an hour and ensured that the doors were locked, it was said.
The resort offered a crãche service but the McCanns chose to leave the children sleeping at the apartment, taking turns to check on them. Between their checks at 9.30pm and 10pm, the apartment was broken into through a window and Madeleine was taken, according to her aunt. Trish Cameron, Mr McCann’s sister, from Dum-barton, near Glasgow, said it appeared that someone had been spying on Madeleine and had targeted her for abduction.
“The front door was open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jemmied open and Madeleine was missing,” she said. “Nothing had been touched in the apartment, no valuables taken, no passports. They think someone must have come in the window and gone out the door with her.”
Police were called at 10.20pm as Madeleine’s parents became increasingly anxious. Soon, fellow guests were notified. About 60 staff and holidaymakers searched until 4.30am, while police notified border police, Spanish police and airports.
Three police vans and three police cars were at the scene as officers searched the family’s apartment. Others searched the beach 200 yards away.
Specialists fingerprinted the windowsill of the apartment. Sniffer dogs were brought in by Portuguese detectives and unconfirmed reports indicated that Madeleine’s scent had been picked up.
The resort caters for 1,000 holidaymakers and is set in lush subtropical gardens. It is made up of self-catering villas and apartment blocks and has several bars and restaurants.
John Hill, the manager at Ocean Club, said that reports that the flat had been broken into had yet to be confirmed.
But Jill Renwick, a family friend, told GMTV that the McCanns were certain that Madeleine had been abducted.
“They were just watching the hotel room and going back every half-hour and the shutters had been broken open and they had gone into the room and taken Madeleine,” she said. “They went out about 8, went back in at 9, they were fine, went back in at 10 and she was gone.”
Ms Renwick said that it was the McCanns’ first holiday of this sort. “They are very, very anxious parents and very careful, and they chose Mark Warner because it is a family-friendly resort.”
A spokesman for Mark Warner, which has run the resort for two years, said that looking after the McCanns was their priority. “If necessary, the company will fly other family members out to the Ocean Club. We are all hoping that she is asleep under a bush somewhere and we will find her soon,” he said.
Guests are being asked if they saw anyone acting suspiciously in the area, he said, adding that Mark Warner had never had cases of missing or abducted children before.
He said that Mark Warner offered a baby-sitting service. “Those facilities were available but, for whatever reason, they were not being used,” he said. Another spokeswoman for Mark Warner said that in the Algarve, unlike most of their resorts, the company did not supply a “room listening” service, where nannies regularly listen at the door of sleeping children.
John Stephen Buck, the British Ambassador to Portugal, travelled to the Algarve yesterday, as did Craig Mayhew, Mark Warner UK operations director, and a counsellor. The McCanns remain at the police station in Portimão, helping police to piece together what has happened.
A Foreign and Commonwealth Office spokesman said that the Serious Organised Crime Agency was liaising with British and Portuguese police. He added that two officials from the British Consulate in Portimão were with the family.

265 comments:

1 – 200 of 265   Newer›   Newest»
Niki said...

Good morning Viv and everyone:-)

Have had a very quick look at yesterdays posts, and could not see that anyone has given a link to this article with pictures and videos from 5A.

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/1105_maddie.shtml

For the first time the News of the World takes you right INSIDE the holiday flat where Madeleine McCann was snatched one year ago

--

Sorry if its already posted...

Have a nice day, and see you later:)

Niki

LittleGreyCell said...

Good morning everyone!

Viv, before discussion commences on this new thread, allow me to present today's News of the World (front page story):-

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/1105_maddie.shtml

You will notice that the NoTW been inside the apartment to take lots of pictures (aided by MW, presumably). There's also a handy floorplan of the apartment which helpfully shows how the sightline of it from the 'Tapas Bar and Pool Area' was blocked by a row of trees.

In the text the article talks about the "tragic but innocent error" Matthew Oldfield made by not going all the way into the kids' room to see that Madeleine was not in her bed. There are also four possible 'hiding places' an abductor would have had ten seconds to find when he heard Gerry's key in the lock of the front door.

However, ladies and gentlemen, don't despair! Here's something from further down the piece:-

"The abductor must have touched windows, doors, shutters, particularly if he was disturbed and had to stay longer than he planned.

It is hard to accept that absolutely no telltale fibres or hairs were left behind."

And:

"...our team heard for themselves how much noise an intruder would have made — reinforcing the theory that this was not an opportunistic snatch but carefully planned.

"When the bedroom shutter is opened by a pull-cord it makes a loud piercing creak that could easily have woken the youngsters or alerted Pamela Fenn, the woman living upstairs.

"It also underlines theories that the abductor probably had crucial inside knowledge of the apartment’s interior. Even walking across the ceramic tiled floors in the wrong sort of footwear could have raised the alarm."

Even more damning for the McCanns is another page entitled "You can't see the McCann patio from the tapas bar". Whilst it highlights how it would have been "shockingly easy" for an abductor to run off unseen:

"From the restaurant, foliage blocks the view of the balcony to such an extent that a man of average height could have stood in the middle of it next to the wall holding a child in his arms and still NOT have been seen by the McCanns or any of the Tapas Nine at the restaurant"

this plainly casts doubt on the McCanns assertion that they could see their apartment from their table. And if they're not telling the truth about this, what else aren't they telling the truth about? (Judge Judy might be a bit more rude about this).

The article is accompanied by lots of pictures which are plainly there NOT to reinforce the idea of an abductor, in my view, but to cast doubt on what has been coming out of the McCanns' mouths. Especially when it mentions the apartment was left unlocked by parents who went on their merry way to a place completely detached from the apartment by sight or hearing.

I'd like to know where K&G left their watches and cameras and passports that night, leaving the door unlocked. After all, most people on holiday go out leaving these things lying around for opportunistic thieves, even if they don't helpfully leave the doors unlocked to assist them on their way into their abode...

Anyway, to my mind (and that of the hubby), whilst on the surface this story looks like it's supporting the McCanns and their mysterious, invisible, non-DNA-shedding abductor, reading between the lines it's drawing attention to what sort of parents the McCanns are, and how their story doesn't add up.

Sorry about the length of this post, folks.

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv,

Questions, questions...

Why would JT have gone out so late to dinner when they had all arranged to meet earlier? If her child had been throwing up at that time, wouldn't she have stayed behind to look after her?

How did they know when the half hour/hour was up for the 'regular' checks on the kids without watches?

Why would they not have been wearing watches knowing they had to make regular checks?

Why are they still employing Clarence Mitchell? It would be much cheaper for them to put their own feet into their own mouths.

mandarinn said...

Morning LGC all
IMO MC's story has so many holes because when someone lye to hide something g itopen a hole sometimes even more reveling than the one they try to hide...
It is why a new story trying to explain (hide) something, open a new hole to explore the truth

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Mandarinn,

Yes, absolutely.

You only have to look at all the discrepancies about the timings of the checking of the children that night - and what we've now been told about NONE of the party wearing watches, which is pretty unbelievable - whether the doors to the apartment had been left locked (their first story) or unlocked (their subsequent story), whether Russell O'Brien's child was sick or not, you only ask yourself why has no detail about that night been straightforward and not subsequently changed?

When people keep saying one thing and then the complete opposite, there has to be a good reason. And in the end, you're forced to believe nothing that comes out of their mouths.

mandarinn said...

LGC
Sometimes it seems mcnn' said so many lyes that they don't remenber all to can built a logical and consistent speech.. and to complete they have the help of creative CM to mess it even more. It is why they look so desperate to see police files. they lost orientation.
Everytime something new happen they anounce the arguidos status will be lifted and they be cleared.
Eventought with the new PJ director the investigation continue and i think and now with all the support of the director.
Now i have faith the truth will come soon in court.

LittleGreyCell said...

I agree with you, Mandarinn,

I hadn't realised that Ribeiro wasn't a policeman. I, too, think new impetus will now be given - after all, I should think the PJ are just as anxious to bring this case to a conclusion, and wouldn't be so intent on keeping the McCanns as arguidos if there wasn't much evidence and suspicion about them.

ratonthebeam said...

I would urge you ALL to look at the NOTW if you have not already done so!

"It highlights the tragic error he made"

"Seeing them sleeping, he assumed- probably wrongly-that all was well"

"Our photos heartbreakingly spell out that if Matthew had only walked a few feet further into the room he could have raised the alarm 35 minutes earlier, giving the police a real chance of catching the culprit"

Then to round it all off neatly, they have a picture of MO captioned ERROR: Matthew Oldfield

I am not making any of this up!!!

Now we all know that NOTW is full of Clarrie's Tame Hacks, and they print anything he supplies. Do you honestly think that MO is going to appreciate seeing himself stabbed in the back in this way?

It's always everybody else's / everything else's fault, NEVER the McCanns!!!!

If I were MO I would be on the phone to the PJ right now, dobbing the Mcs and everyone else in right up to their scrawny, lying necks.

GRRRR!!!!! :-x :-x :-x

mandarinn said...

I think it make some confusion to britons the name of institution "public minintery" it is not a ministery , i meant with minister as Justice ministery,i think the equivalent in Uk is crown prosecuter.
They are not judges but come from the same formation.In some hight profile cases we can see sometimes a kind of stress between PJ and public ministery.It is why IMO it will go better now.
The newdirector was welcome by pt cityzens and also by MP?s open minded

docmac said...

Hi all,

Long time no see. Going back to read previous posts and comments. Will comment later.

mandarinn said...

Hi RATOB
Great new , i allways thought if not throught the investigation ,soon or late the truth will come by someone envolved and bad treated ...
We have a popular saying like that "Fiends get anger thruth is revealed " :)

ratonthebeam said...

I just put in a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission about the NOTW. They are trying to push conjecture and theories as facts. The online complaints form is here. I will let you all know if/when I get a reply.

Cláudia said...

Good morning, evertbody!

Hello, Rat, Doc, Mandarinn and anyone also reading! :-)

Mandarinn, when you have several people telling different versions of the same story it is impossible to avoid the holes. That is why liars are almost always caught. Most of the times their lies catch up with them and bite them in their royal arses! :-)

Rat, If I were MO, I would be so pissed off I would be singing like a canary. :-)

nancy said...

Hi LGC -

Thanks for all the interesting from the NOTW - I will go and have a look. It must be the first article for ages. Perhaps CM and the McCanns are missing the limelight. I'll be back after readin it but it looks pretty much to me like a bit more spin!

See you later.


Nx

mandarinn said...

I'm just not clevr with "suglas". what NOTW means? pls

mandarinn said...

*siglas :(

mandarinn said...

Claudia
Do you have any news from Alsabela and the others portuguese posters?
i don't met them here since a long time

nancy said...

Viv -

I think the whole world are as confused about the time checks as the McCanns and the tapas lot are themselves! Personally I think they checked a lot less than they are letting on and after all we only have their word for it, and I wouldn't trust any of their words quite frankly. So I think we have to take the times stories with a pinch of salt!

Madeleine's hair is much blonder in the photo by the pool and the fact they were there only a few short days, unless Kate had it dyed, there is no way it would have bleached up that much. Also she looks much younger than the one on the tennis court and when boarding the plane! How could they let little kids like that walk up steps to a plane without holding their hands? There were plenty of adults around surely!

I read on the McCann files that they are not going to celebrate Maddie's 5th birthday because G is working! What about when he gets home - I thought they wanted to keep Madeleine's memory alive for the twins, and anyway they keep trying to convince everyone that Madeleine is still alive? Strange parents!

As for Matt Oldfield not checking properly - that really sounds like a false statement to me. If he was checking on the children, then he would have checked not opened the door and then walked off!

Off to read the NOTW article now!


Nx

Wizard said...

Hi Rat,

The press complaints commission is useless - I put in a complaint sometime ago they acknowledged receipt of the complaint but I and others who complained at the same time never got a reply.

nancy said...

mandarinn -

It's a newspaper called News of the World - a bit of a down market rag that men by allegedly to read the sport, but it's full of trash really.


Nancy x

ratonthebeam said...

News Of The World

mandarinn said...

Tks RAT

nancy said...

mandarinn -

that was supposed to say 'buy' allegedly! Not a newspaper the more discerning reader would buy though and not many women I shouldn't think!

docmac said...

The pool photo:

Have not commented on this before. Being a P'shop CS3 fanatic the following features do seem a little odd to me:

1. Madeleine looks a year younger.
2. The shadow cast by her hat appears to be at a slightly different angle to other shadows in the photo.
3. Her hair has possibly been lightened in an image editor.
4. There is a suggestion of Madeleine's hair having been extracted from another photograph. This is a rather crude and inaccurate tool used in Photoshop to select and 'remove' an object from a photo in order that it may be placed in another. Extracting hair accurately is nigh impossible using this filter. There are much better methods available to an expert.
5. There are signs of cloning around her hat, again poorly done.
6. the one that confuses me is that there seems to have been some 'work' done on the shadow cast on Gerry's leg by Amelie's hat. Some may say the shadow has been created.

nancy said...

Hi Rat -

I just got back from the fish and chip wrap revelation. I would go so far as to say that Mr Pink definitely had a hand in that reporting. They don't say how they managed to get permission to do the video, but I supposed someone posed as a prospective holiday rentee.

The article is definite pro-McCann - and even the bit about all the forensic evidence there would have been if an abductor had got in is made to seem as if it's the PJ's fault they didn't check properly!

Another strange thing - Gerry didn't bother to look in the flat even though he sensed someone was there, and Matt Oldfield didn't bother to look in Madeleine's bed even though he was standing at the door that opened on to it! I'm afraid I believe they are both lying through their teeth - how come they both made such tragic mistakes when supposedly checking on the children. I'd hate to have medical treatment or any treatment at all from those two!!

And what parent in his or her right mind would leave a patio door open for anyone to slide open and walk in - were they absolutely stupid, drunk or both! And whatever they say, the couldn't even see the apartment.

Lies, spin and more lies, that's my opinion!


Nx

docmac said...

NOTW

Most read last week:

Stars get naked for Fabulous
Topless WAGs pictures special
Kate Moss in sexy underwear
Peaches Geldof in drugs deal video
Kym Ryder's night with Lee Sharpe

Errmmm...

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Nancy,

I see the NOTW article from a different angle from you. I think it highly unlikely that CM or G&K would want it completely disproved - if not hammered home - that there was absolutely no sight line from the tapas bar to their apartment.

This fact does not put the McCanns in a good light at all. Especially since one of the things they maintain is that they could see it.

This points out startkly how they neglected their children.

Also, given that no hard-bitten journalist is going to believe the McCanns readily - and they are arguidos, after all, and have been for months - I really can't think they'd run a positive piece backing them up. And this article doesn't back them up...

...what about the part which says:

"The abductor must have touched windows, doors, shutters, particularly if he was disturbed and had to stay longer than he planned.

It is hard to accept that absolutely no telltale fibres or hairs were left behind."

And there's also the fact that it must have been Mark Warner who let them into the apartment in the first place. MW must be pretty p*ssed off with the whole episode, seeing as their reputation has been damaged. They have a business to run, after all. And Madeleine's disappearance has apparently led to them engaging security staff at night, which they hadn't shelled out for before.

I really do feel if the article was pro-McCann that there would be some signs of this. I see quite the opposite...

docmac said...

Oooooh, I just found this in my inbox.

Anonymous We Know Where They Are! said...

Hi ST
Far too late in the day for Viv to be issuing warnings! The damage is already done believe me it is!
I have personally gone over that site with a fine tooth comb and I have sent copies of all libellous remarks to the appropriate people concerned.

Agencies involved have been hospitals, universities, colleges, schools, national governments, government departments, various telephone companies, internet service providers, internet providers, local and national police forces, council departments, electoral registers, private companies, magistrates, local mayors and several law firms and private detectives etc.

It has been a long process, but one that has been ongoing for some time. Let's just say that when the large well filled white envelopes start falling on door mats, it will not advertising stairlifts!

Some of them think living abroad makes it impossible for them to be prosecuted, they need to think again, in some cases it has actually made the job much easier as other country’s laws are easier to navigate and comply with compared to the UK’s strict laws and some people working in those countries have been so very helpful, going out of their way to provide the help needed.

10 May 2008 19:58



LOL!!! How old is the person who wrote this claptrap? "It has been a long process, but one that has been ongoing for some time." Hahahaaa! I'm not even going to play the grammar card, but I would like to know why this loser is using her tooth comb to go over a site that she believes to be filthy. Are you not worried about dental hygiene love? Why do you comb your teeth anyway? It's a 'fine-tooth comb' for goodness' sake!

National governments? Are you 007?

docmac said...

Hi LGC

Agreed.

Stella said...

Am I glad to be back...

Yesterday I got thrown off this site with a message from Google saying that my account is being used by two different users or something similar to an automated requests from a computer virus or spyware application, check your spyware immediately??? I have never had this before, has anyone else experienced this??

docmac said...

Hi Stella

I have had that problem with Firefox, but not with IE. Just refresh the page.

bath theory said...

Remember easiest way to refresh is to hit the F5 button at the top of your computer

Stella said...

Docmac

Thanks, I tried deleting all cookies not sure if that's the same thing, but it happened within 5 minutes of getting a warning from Viv, so I thought it was the Men in Black shutting me up for good. I could not gain access again until today..

Stella said...

Bath theory

I will try to remember that one, thanks..

Stella said...

ROTB

If you are still on, I couldn't get back to you yesterday, but I think you were right about smudger.

Just out of interest as you are more technically minded than me, if you insert a photo card from a digital camera directly into a laptop, can you access one of the images on that card, make changes, then re-save it back onto the photo card to make it look like that was the original photo taken??

ratonthebeam said...

Stella, yes you can. It works just like a tiny floppy disk.

Stella said...

Rat

Could an expert tell by studying that particular file if it is second generation?

docmac said...

Hi Rat

Yes, you can transfer any file to the card, but the picture will not be viewable on the camera itself. At least, this is true of the newer models.

Stella said...

Hi Docmac

My logic behind all this is if someone downloaded an image onto a laptop, changed a picture, saved it back onto the camera then gave the camera to another laptop to download, would the second receipient be aware of changes made to that picture? Would they think what they have is an original set of pictures?

docmac said...

Stella,

The person doing so would have to change some of the metadata (extra information stored with all digital photos) before the second download. If they neglected to do this it would be distinguishable as a photo that had been edited.

ratonthebeam said...

It's easy enough to change the metadata though, or erase it!

docmac said...

True Rat, but we're not dealing with rocket scientists here ;-)

Stella said...

Doc/Rat

Let's hope they forgot about that little one...

docmac said...

Rat/Stella

Come to think of it, it would be wonderful if the metadata had been erased, as there would be no defence!!

dolores said...

Hi Docmac,

Which one is the better liar?

X D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFpmLwS2FEE&feature=user

Stella said...

Docmac

I take it from your anonymous email when it said "it is far to late in the day for Viv to be issuing warnings", they were referring to me yesterday..

Anyone got a spare pair of boots I can shake in?

docmac said...

Stella

It wasn't anonymous. It was sent to me by another poster. I just removed all the 'lol's.

Are you shaking more than me? Hehe.

Hello Dolores! I'm off to watch the video.

ratonthebeam said...

What the NOTW Should Have Said!

docmac said...

"If Madeleine hadn't been abducted we'd never have thought of that comment again."

Oh dear.

Dolores - Gerry.

Stella said...

No Doc

But I am disappointed, I could do with a "white envelope coming through the door advertising stair lifts", I will probably need one very soon...

ratonthebeam said...

We don't have a letter box in our door, does a white envelope in the mailbox on the wall count??? :):)

Stella said...

And they seem to have had a change in colour of envelopes, first it was brown full of money to Rothley Manor, now it is white ones to earn more money, cool...

They must have read the novel, How to get rich fast, by Robbin Banks.

docmac said...

Rat

Gerry has very long forearms. Now haven't I seen those somewhere before?

For those who like looking at pictures see this lot.

Keep clicking 'next'. There are many previously unpublished photos there. Try other searches too.

dolores said...

Docmac,
That is what I thought to,he thinks he is very skillful with his lies.
He shoots himself in the foot every time he opens his mouth.
XX D

You have mail:)

Stella said...

Doc

I like the second one down on the right where he looks like he is sucking on a lemon, fantastic. What a face, mind you he knows how to pull some scarry looking ones.

I'm off now for a bit, thank goodness it is of my own free will today...

Ecolab said...

LimelightLove 10. of August

Jubii.. another press conference

docmac said...

Yes Stella but keep clicking 'next', there are more to see.

Dolores, answered :-)

Sorry to be late replying. It's Mothers' Day here and we are fairly busy. Big breakfast served up by dad this morning and soon off to the outlaws. SA celebrates mums on the same day as the USA rather than the UK's Mothering Sunday.

Tomorrow is big day for me too :-) There will be a tinge of sadness about it this year though :-(

nancy said...

LGC -

I suppose you could read the article as trying to implicate the McCanns and tapas pals without actually coming out with the words,because there are subtle hints there, but then again why did they emphasise that Matt Oldfield made a 'tragic but innocent' mistake by not checking on Madeleine?

In fact it's a very ambiguous article in my opinion and could be seen from both sides of the equation.

You said yourself that we all know that the NOTW is full of CM's tame hacks and they print what he suggests, so it's difficult to come to a positive conclusion about that article.

I must admit though that what they say about any intruder having just ten seconds to find somewhere to hide, i.e.the wardrobe, the bathroom etc, does tend to make it look as though they are saying that would not be enough time and also what they stress about any intruder being heard very easily walking around, and the noise opening the shutters would make, bears out what you say. Why do they keep on about the window theory when it's been established that the patio door was left opened I wonder?

I must admit on looking at the video, the apartment seems a lot more roomy than when I've seen it before, but perhaps that was screened in a way to emphasise the space - who knows? All I know is that Oldfield was standing virtually at the end of Maddie's bed, but outside of the door, and how he missed she wasn't there is unbelievable, and I don't believe him actually!

I wonder if this article will be the beginning of other newspapers dusting off their saintly images and coming out with more stories to increase their sales!

nancy said...

Hello Stella -

If you are still there? How are you today? And what is it you might need a stairlift for one day anyway? We all will I'm sure my dear!

Don't give a second thought about what you said yesterday - you were only saying something you had heard yourself - most of us get our information from other bloggers, other sites, or the newspapers after all. And each bit of information helps us to add two and two together - the trouble is I usually add them up wrong, but I keep trying!

Whoever sent that article to Docmac is undoubtedly a few shillings short of a quid if you know what I mean!

Nx

nancy said...

Ecolab and Docmac -

Thanks for the links to the photos. If there is any sign of grieving or untold sadness in either of the McCann's faces, then I have yet to see it and it certainly isn't shown in any of these photos. It could have been just another day for them.

Most of the pictures of the McCanns both in Portugal and in the UK, are of the two of them together - how they can continue leaving the twins knowing what happened to Madeleine I don't know! The twins could quite easily become the target of a kidnapping now they have been made world famous by their parents world wide campaign. There are many unscrupulous vilains out there who would have no qualms in trying to get their hands on the twins knowing the amount of money they could make for their return. It begs the question of whether they do have bodyguards for the twins, and themselves, come to that!

docmac said...

Hi Nancy

I'm just off out now. Don't misunderstand me, the post was made on another site apparently. Someone I know e-mailed it to me :-)

Ecolab said...

Hi Nancy

I never thought of that. Bodyguards for the twins and themselves!!! It is soon turning into a Michael Jackson soap, huh?
....but still remember the amount of money for Maddies SAFE return! Not a mention of money for solving the case or information, that leads to the solving the case. Makes you think?

What did Gerry do 18. June?

Jerry wins the lottery?

Just 6 weeks after Maddie gone

mariana said...

Hi ecolab
There is another happy one.
Happy Kate

mariana said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mariana said...

http://www.exposay.com/kate-mccann-parents-of-missing-child-madeleine-mccann-gerry-and-kate-mccann---june-18-2007/p/13862/7/

There is Happy Kate.
It will not take it as a html

Ecolab said...

Does anyone knows, when the twins are born??

I know Madeleine is May 2003. Are they born summer 2005?

Stella said...

Nancy

Have just got back and found your lovely post to me.

You are absolutely right Nancy, it was the first I heard yesterday about images being given to Woolfall and my mind went into overdrive. Thankfully with the help of ROTB and Docmac, I now understand how easy it is to save photos back onto a media card in a camera, therefore anyone could change an image.

I wasn't joking about needing a stair lift soon, I have MS and stairs are a big problem. I can still just about manage a normal set of stairs, but have nearly come a cropper a few times.

"a few shillings short of a quid", how I adore those old sayings, thank you for your reassurance Nancy, I really appreciate it.

nancy said...

Stella -

I'm sure when the time comes that you can't make those stairs Stella, you can look for a bungalow. Much less work involved too!

You sound amazingly brave and you obviously don't just sit around moping - you always contribute such a good input on here.

I hear the weather is wonderful in the UK (according to my daughter) and I hope you are enjoying the sunshine - it's far from nice in this part of Spain today - cool, windy and rain, so for a change you have the best of it and I'm so pleased for all of you there.

Nancy x

nancy said...

Ecolab -

I'm not sure when the twins were born but 2005 sounds about right to me. They must be about 3 years old now.

Thanks for the link - I'll take a look at that!

Nx

Stella said...

Nancy

We have had lovely weather here for over a week now, will try to send some of it your way.

Nancy, I guess it is my viking roots, if you get an arm chopped off, your other one becomes stonger. They say blind people develop a stonger sense of smell. Me, if I cannot exercise my legs, I will stretch my mind. For me these sites have been a way of getting out and chatting among new friends. Just like you Nancy, I don't know what it is, but you and I have a special bond.

nancy said...

Stella -

I think you are right. I am of viking/irish/english descent - white blonde hair that's never seen a bottle of peroxide, blue eyes, and a skin that freckles, relentlessly in the sun - I hate them! I'm always having to pile on the suncream!

My son-in-law's mother suffered from MS for years and years and,like you, found another way out of her frustration in art work. I believe there are various strains of MS and some people have milder symptoms than others. Is that right?

To be quite honest Stella, as you get older, the brain needs more stretching than the legs in my opinion.

Did you used to blog on the DX too - I seem to remember you did?

Nx

dolores said...

Can anyone remember this?

Kate McCann: 'Madeleine cried 18 hours a day'
By PAUL HARRIS - More by this author »

Last updated at 17:55pm on 18th September 2007


Kate McCann has told of how Madeleine cried for 18 hours a day as a baby and demanded constant attention when her twin brother and sister were born.

In an interview with a Portuguese magazine, the 39-year-old GP is reported to have discussed her daughter suffering from colic and how, at 20 months old, she reacted to the birth of twins Sean and Amelie.

Mrs McCann's intention seems to have been to illustrate how she and Madeleine bonded so closely during those early years, when mother and daughter were rarely separated.

Kate McCann pictured today: She says she had to 'carry Madeleine around permanently'


McCanns are 'innocent victims of a heinous crime'
'Fed up' police chief blasts the McCanns for calling in Gordon Brown
Madeleine: Spotlight is back on the Tapas Nine
Madeleine: Judge refuses to order Kate McCann to return to Portugal
Madeleine: Spotlight is back on the Tapas Nine


But her interview was seized on by detectives as valuable evidence in the profile they are building of her.

Officers are seeking medical records to build up a case that she was incapable of controlling four-year-old Madeleine - and that the strain could have provoked her into violence while on holiday in Praia da Luz.

The question of Mrs McCann's relationship with her children first arose last week after the Portuguese press published details alleged to have come from a diary she kept in the Algarve.

The diary extracts purported to demonstrate that she admitted she struggled to cope with her children, and had difficulties with Madeleine because she sapped her strength and emotions.

Mrs McCann's interview with Flash! magazine was conducted before she and her husband Gerry were named as suspects in the case and before the diary details were published.

In it, she spoke openly about her experiences in being a mother to Madeleine, candidly admitting that the first six months with her were "very difficult".

Madeleine: Accepted the arrival of the twins


She explained that Madeleine frequently suffered from colic as a baby and, as a toddler, demanded a lot of attention after the birth of the twins.

"She cried practically for 18 hours a day," she said. "I had to carry her around permanently."

This period explained "the strong bond between mother and daughter", she said.

Although the arrival of the twins shook up Madeleine's life, she accepted them very well.

Mrs McCann is quoted as saying: "She managed to deal perfectly with this new reality, although she herself at the time was still a baby."

Her interview emerged as the police case against the couple appeared to be crumbling because of doubts over the reliability of any forensic evidence.

Sources told the Daily Mail that officers may even research information on Munchausen's syndrome by proxy - the condition can compel parents and other adults to harm children.


It has become a routine line of inquiry in child murder investigations since the case of Beverley Allitt, the hospital nurse who killed four children in 1991.

Allitt was convicted in 1993 on 13 charges of murder and causing grievous bodily harm.

Those suffering from the condition often have a high knowledge of medical practice.

In the context of this case however, the suggestion was being seen as another attempt to blacken the McCann name and put the couple under pressure.

In the interview, Mrs McCann insisted that she and her husband were "truly responsible parents" and had committed no crime.

Speaking of the night Madeleine disappeared, she said: "I was sure immediately that she didn't walk out of that room.

"I never doubted that she had been taken by someone.

"I went through a phase of guilt for not knowing what happened to her. I blamed myself for thinking that the place was safe.

"But the certainty that we are truly responsible parents has helped me carry on.

"I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances."

Asked about whether the decision to leave them meant she and her husband were responsible for their daughter's disappearance, she said: "It cannot be considered a crime.

"Someone committed one, but not us."

nancy said...

Mariana -

Thanks for 'happy Kate'!

How can these be parents in torment! They seem to be smiling secretly to themselves for some reason - I would love to slap that smile from their faces to be quite honest! Poor, poor Madeleine! Will she ever get justice?


Nx

dolores said...

Ecolab
The twins were born in February 2005

Stella said...

It's Madeleine's birthday tomorrow and according to my diary she shares the same birthday as Florence Nighingale b. 1820

I believe we are all born into this world for a reason. Some are here just to do one thing others to do many things. I believe Madeleine like Florence, gave herself to help others in need. Children in need of much better protection. Children of the future who will not have to suffer as she did. If laws are changed as a direct result of what Madeleine has gone through, she will have achieved a wonderful thing. On her 5th Birthday tomorrow, I will wish her peace and rest.

mariana said...

Hello everyone

How are you Stella, Nancy

nancy said...

Dolores -

Thanks for the article - I had read it before but it's always good to go over things again.

So Kate thinks they are responsible parents and it's someone else who is the criminal! I suppose if she tells herself that enough times she may eventually become to believe it!

She is obviously unable to face up to the horror of what they did in leaving their children. If Maddie was taken then of course the kidnapper is a criminal but it doesn't take away the fact that if they had been there for Madeleine, he would not have had that window of opportunity she is always banging on about!

I wish people would stop fawning over that couple and tell them (and their tapas pals) just how selfish and uncaring they all behaved that night, and it's their fault Madeleine is not with them and her siblings now!

May they get their just deserts in the not too distant future.


Nx

Stella said...

Nancy

I thought so, I'm Irish/Cornish and us vikings connect very easily.

I thankfully take after my Mother who is of Spanish decent, olive skin brown eyes. In fact when I have been to America and in particular Mexico, I am asked often if I am Spanish, I love it I wish I was. My husband tells everyone I look like Jane Seymour but I have the nose of a Jack Russell. Aparently he advises people not to get on the wrong side of me. He is right about the last bit, a big manufacturer rubbed me up the wrong way once and before you knew it I appeared on Watchdog.

As to the MS, yes I was hope4you on DX, but decided to take on a new name here. There are many strains of MS, I have had mine for over 20 years, and have coped quite well up until recently. It could be worse, I could have been told I have six months, so why mope around, where there is a will there is a way, I always say.

Stella said...

Mariana

Good evening. Today I feel more hopefull to a much brighter future. I believe Almeida Rodrigues will turn everything around and very soon. how are you?

nancy said...

Hi Stella -

I knew I recognised your style of writing - I used to get so mixed up with you and the other Hope in the old days I remember!!

Of course there are many Spanish looking people in Ireland and Scotland because of the Armada and the Spanish sailors who ended up on those shores all those years ago - hence the gorgous looking George Clooney who Viv adores! He has very Spanish looks. I love his Auntie Rosemary's voice - very talented family!

I seem to remember telling you once, probably on here, that Stella means star - of course it would be Estrella in Spanish! And you certainly sound like a star, especially if you went on Watchdog too! Great programme! I bet you gave that manufacture your 'twopence worth' !!

I'm off to have some tea now - may be back later if I can summon up the energy to get up from the settee!! To be quite honest Stella, I think all of us on here must have the fighting spirit and it's a good job because some of us have to stick out necks out for little Madeleine bless her!

See you later -

Nx

mariana said...

Stella

I am fine thanks.
I believe they will end up in prison.
Your mum's relatives are from Spain?
My great grandfather was from Venice, Italy.

nancy said...

Mariana -

I'm really well thank you, and I hope you are too.

I really enjoy your posts - always something interesting to say and show us.

Off for a cuppa - see you later.



Nx

Stella said...

Nancy

Have a really lovely evening, catch you another day.... :-)

mariana said...

Nancy

cu later

Ecolab said...

Dolores Thanks

If the twins are born feb. 05 makes them one year and 10 month old at the cristmas video (2006)

Sean 22 monts old is a slow dancer and Maddie does not look like a happy girl at all to me. I have often thought, she looks lige an abused child to me, and I do mean sexual abused!



The happiest day of the year

another thing bothers me...I`ll write later

Stella said...

Mariana

I have sucessfully managed to trace my Fathers family back some way, but for my Mother it has been difficult, all I know is they were Spanish, but whether that is Spain or latin America I do not know. It is really weird, I have been to Mexico many, many times, I always feel so at home there, and everyone says I look Spanish, which if you go back 150 years on my Mothers side they were, apparently.

I have always wanted to go to Puglia in Italy to stay in a Trulli, they look amazing.

As for the final result, I think they will refuse to return to Portugal to face charges and will avoid extradition. They will of course have to go into hiding, creating a terrible life for the twins. But I somehow think they will put themselves before the twins.

Have to really dash now, will catch up with you another day Mariana, have a lovely evening.

viv said...

Hiya all, guess what I am going to do - read the News of the World, but from reading LGC's comments above my initial reaction is they are seeking to put pressure on Matthew Oldfield to admit the truth (if he has not already done so) - he did not get up from the table and check the McCanns children at all.

Back when I have had a look but it is great to see the former McCann rag doing the decent thing. I think LGC suggested a few days ago Clarrie has upset editors of UK papers, I reckon he did, but wonder if he still has the support of 24 Horas - some of the reports they have printed have been frankly ludicrous. Meanwhile Clarrie has shuffled off to Ireland to drum up some support from the Catholics there. Never averse to creating racial or religious divides in support of his cause is he?

Viv x

viv said...

Hi Ecolab

Sadly, I have to agree with you, I also believe Madeleine, from about 3 years onwards looks like an abused child and yes, I believe it is sexual abuse too. I think little Madeleine became surplus to requirements and got used as a money earner for her parents, even after they killed her. I have always thought this case will have some real shocks in store when we get to hear it all and I have not changed my mind about that. Stalker was right they are hiding a big secret and it is notable that WE get accused of supporting paedophiles, the sickening hypocrisy never changes tack.

Viv x

mariana said...

ecolab

She looks very scared.
Doesn't look happy at all opening presents.
Who on earth would scare a little child on Xmas day?

Can you believe that Philomena bought Madeleine her first ice-cream?

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Nancy,

The NOTW article is cleverly done so that it appears to support the Victims McCann whilst implicating them in, at the very least, neglect. Read between the lines and you can decipher the oblique journalistic highlighting of the points they're unable to make any other way...

...MO makes a "tragic but innocent mistake" because the paper is pointing the finger at K&G, who were NOT innocent in leaving their kids to their fate in an apartment which, the paper tells us over and over again, couldn't be seen from the tapas bar.

You can see the importance the paper places on this fact by the separate article on the other page, complete with pictures and even a floor plan with some large trees separating it from the "tapas bar and pool area".

The hiding places are in the article for self-defence purposes, should they ever be taken to court, to show that the NOTW is demonstrating Gerry's point that an intruder could have been hiding in a cupboard whilst he was checking the children. (Oo, there goes a flying pig).

The point about the window is that the NOTW writes whilst it was originally thought an abductor could have entered the apartment from there, "our evidence shows this was unlikely".

Couple this with the stuff about the special door key not being easily copied - and there's a picture of the type of key to hammer home the point - and thus anyone getting into the apartment being an insider, to my mind the rag is leading one to consider the fact that the best insiders there were K&G themselves.

The point I've been making about the papers is that these days they are cash-strapped and investigative-poor, and so gladly accept stories handed to them on a plate. This is cheap and saves much time and research.

Only this story does not come from Clarence. It establishes the McCanns as liars (about being able to see the apartment from the tapas bar), it canes them for leaving their children in a remote location on their own, and it disproves the theory about somebody coming in from the window - or the door!! (I still stick by my invisible, inaudible, hovering aliens theory).

Further, it doesn't really mention the McCanns much, nor does it go on about the Amber Alert or anything else which puts them in a (supposedly) good light. There's no positive spin for them at all.

No, the NOTW - gutsy, undercover, seen-it-all journalists - aren't very likely to believe that the McCanns are totally innocent (the statistics speak for themselves, and some of their most successful stories are based on crimes against children), but naturally they can't come out and say that. But that's certainly what they think!

LittleGreyCell said...

Anyone seen Hope lately?

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv,

I reckon Clarrie's gone to Ireland to campaign for Gerry to be the next Pope. Sadly, he did miss out on being Scotsman of the year, so this could be his next campaign...

mariana said...

LGC

The insider job, puts MW on the spot too.
It repeats that the nonster new the apartment inside out.

Ecolab said...

LittleGreyCell:

He is not running to be the next Pope and not the Scotsman of the year. Remember this photo?

Running for number 10

LittleGreyCell said...

Mariana,

Could do, but there's also the part which says:

"The abductor must have touched windows, doors, shutters, particularly if he was disturbed and had to stay longer than he planned.

It is hard to accept that absolutely no telltale fibres or hairs were left behind."

And also about the "wrong sort of shoes". Mrs Fenn wouldn't, it is implying, be made suspicious by wearing the sort of shoes that holidaymakers - i.e. Kate and Gerry - would be wearing...

LittleGreyCell said...

Ecolab,

And just when I thought there couldn't be anyone worse than the current White House incumbent!

AAArrrggghhhh!!!!

mariana said...

LGC

It has been reported, that it was Gerry's fingerprint on the window from the inside.
No other fingerprints.

viv said...

Hiya LGC

I have had a good look at the News of the World and have to say I do not see it the way that you do.

To me it is written to emphasise the negligence. That is what the McCanns have always been about, yes we were negligent and that is how she got abducted. If the McCanns had their child abducted because of their own negligence they would be unlikely to face a prison sentence or one of any great length, so this is why they have always been only too happy to admit this. If they did not, they would not be able to suggest so clearly how Madeleine could have been taken. If you think about it, subsequently saying well actually we even left the patio doors open certainly fits with this.

In emphasing the negligence they introduce their latest means of insisting she was abducted by clearly suggesting it was an inside job. But we know from the griddle chef the Portuguese Police comandeered one of the apartments and used it as a base to laboriously interview 200 people including all members of staff. We know from the treatment of Murat, if there had been any suspicion of staff whatsoever, what they would have been subjected to. He got grilled for up to 17 hours at a stretch. They were certainly not going easy on any suspects and given that Madeleine was missing, neither would you expect them to.

So far as saying there would be spare keys to the front door, well yes of course there would be - what holiday complex, knowing how guests lose their keys, would only have one! How on earth can they state Portuguese Police have always believed the abductor came through the front door, do they seriously expect us to believe PJs told the NOW that! Portuguese Police have always believed there was no abductor, as the GNR officers said, there was no evidence of any break in, so now we get the answer, oh they had a key! What next!!!

I reproduce some of what the NOW say below and particularly on the subject of was Jane coming or going look at the perverse thing they say, she was coming back from a check. Now that is just the opposite to what she says on Panorama and means that to have seen this so called abductor she would have needed eyes in the back of her head. Frankly I cannot take the NOW seriously. Even the positioning of the furniture is different now to how it was at the time. So what is the point of showing us this!

But Portuguese police have always believed any intruder would have used the FRONT DOOR to enter, knowing the McCanns would never use it that night. He could also have escaped through the shuttered front window to the children's bedroom. For this he would have needed a KEY to the front door. The one the McCanns had for the Ocean Club apartment is known in the locksmiths' trade as a "crucifix key"—and is very unusual because it has four sides. Experienced British locksmith John Reeder told us the key used to take us into the flat yesterday is almost certainly a copy. He said: "Most locksmiths would not be able to copy it without great difficulty. The one in the picture is almost certainly not the original."

Supporting the theory that the kidnap could be an inside job, he added: "I would say it is most likely there is at least one other key in circulation as most locks come with at least two spares when they are cut. But there are not many keys aroun like this one."

From our investigations inside the apartment it is possible the abductor left through the back. But it is also possible he used the window in the bedroom to check the coast was clear at the front and either passed Madeleine through the window to an accomplice or left through the front door.


Blood

There is also the evidence of a "partial footwear mark" found just outside Madeleine's bedroom which had traces of blood in it visible to the naked eye, according to a forensics report.

Laboratory tests in Birmingham were inconclusive but found there was a "moderate" chance the blood was the youngster's. There were also specks of blood said to be on the walls of the bedroom, but forensic results have been inconclusive.

The evidence of witness Jane Tanner, one of the Tapas Nine, also backs the FRONT DOOR theory. She was on her way back from her flat and saw a man walking quickly across the top of the road, away from the apartments and towards the outer road of the complex

LittleGreyCell said...

Mariana,

That detail had passed me by. Hmm.

:)

mariana said...

Is this the ncmec guy? Does anyone know his name?

http://www.exposay.com/gerry-mccann-gerry-mccann-visits-the-whitehouse---july-24-2007/p/13713/4/

bath theory said...

I feel Clarence is in Ireland because it was there that they had issues over the fund in terms of collecting. I never looked at it deeply but remeber an issue arose about possible fraud. So it could be he is wading into that issue especially as fraud is an area the police would like to find some more on me thinks.

Just a thought.

viv said...

Hi All

I have just had a look at Supertroll's blog and see I am being subjected to death wishes and being reported to the police, quite what for they do not trouble to explain. Certainly their own behaviour contravenes the criminal law!

I want to record this here as evidence of what I am being subjected to by people on that site, just in case she should remove that post.

Anonymous said...
Supertroll delete this if it offensive.....

Vile you are a vicious twisted evil lying bastard....
I hope your thyroid gets worse and chokes you!.....
I have forewarded your accusation to the police....

Here is what she posted in reply to Ecolab

'Sadly, I have to agree with you, I also believe Madeleine, from about 3 years onwards looks like an abused child and yes, I believe it is sexual abuse too. I think little Madeleine became surplus to requirements and got used as a money earner for her parents, even after they killed her. I have always thought this case will have some real shocks in store when we get to hear it all and I have not changed my mind about that. Stalker was right they are hiding a big secret and it is notable that WE get accused of supporting paedophiles, the sickening hypocrisy never changes tack.

Viv x

Sunday, 11 May 2008 17:37:00 o'clock BST

Wizard said...

THE SCOTSMAN: “McCanns ‘won’t mark’ Madeleine’s fifth birthday”
Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said of the birthday: “Gerry will be at work and Kate will be at or around home. Sadly, for them it is just another day without Madeleine.”

viv said...

Hi Wizard

So they wanted a big anniversary event about her supposedly being abducted, but when it comes to celebrating her life, they dont want to bother. Typical they never demonstrated any respect for it anyway.

Viv x

mariana said...

Hi Viv

Forget the damn trolls.
They are not worth our time.

mariana said...

wizard

They are funny people the McCann's.
They celebrated Madeleine's "abduction" but not her 5th birthday.
Surely they know more than we do, don't they?

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv,

I agree absolutely that the NOTW are drawing attention to the negligence of the McCanns.

However, what convinces me that they also have another agenda is the line about it being "hard to accept" that an intruder left no traces of themselves.

As you say, the MW staff were interviewed at great length. However, none of them was given arguido status and now, some eight months after they were named suspects, and over a year since Madeleine disappeared, Kate and Gerry ARE still arguidos. I think the paper has used the concept of there being an 'inside job' as a kind of euphemism.

In highlighting the neglect issue, I believe the NOTW are laying the grounds for something a bit more serious. No other paper has even hinted at neglect in this way, and they were also instrumental in campaigning for Sarah's Law.

If they were doing today's piece to suggest an abductor/paedophile snatched Madeleine, I don't see why they would plainly state the problem about there being no traces of such a person...

Nor do they go on to suggest who that abductor might be - an angle sure to be dealt with in an article such as this if they wanted to suggest such a thing. (I'd have been hung, drawn and quartered on my journalism course if I'd have omitted this angle).

They've tried to maintain balance, I feel, but I'm still convinced they're hinting at something...(and let's not forget that they undoubtedly know stuff they're not publishing).

viv said...

Hiya Mariana

Of course you are right and they will not stop me from expressing my own view of what happened to little Madeleine, whether they like it or not. The McCanns are not the saintly couple they try to portray they are every bit as evil as the people who write on those blogs, seeking to support them by writing abusive filth.

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Wizard,

"JUST another day without Madeleine"...

Ecolab said...

Viv et All

Does anyone know that Childs Game ?: Where you hiding a thing and when you are getting closer and closer in finding it, it is said : "You are getting hot"

Quiting Viv once more time and well said Viv:
"Sadly, I have to agree with you, I also believe Madeleine, from about 3 years onwards looks like an abused child and yes, I believe it is sexual abuse too. I think little Madeleine became surplus to requirements and got used as a money earner for her parents, even after they killed her. I have always thought this case will have some real shocks in store when we get to hear it all and I have not changed my mind about that. Stalker was right they are hiding a big secret and it is notable that WE get accused of supporting paedophiles, the sickening hypocrisy never changes tack."

viv said...

Hiya LGC

I think the comment "hard to accept intruder left no trace of themselves" could have a double meaning.

Firstly it could clearly imply that obviously he did, but the negligent PJ's never bothered to find it. This clearly fits with the McCann agenda.

Secondly of course it fits with what you are saying and this is powerful because we know the only forensic evidence the police found in that apartment was of the McCanns and their friends including finger prints on the shutters, windows and patio etc. Even if an intruder wore gloves, they still leave forensic traces and the NOW comments about climbing/passing through windows is silly, given they are saying the man had the key, what the heck would he bother with the window for and leave further forensic traces in doing so.

It would be nice to think that by "inside job" they seek to imply a euphemism but I think you are a lot brighter than anyone at the NOW and they do not go in for that level of intelligence! In fact the language used in that article sounds just like Rosie to me who I have never considered overly bright. Shocking, astonishing, truly chilling etc...

So far as suggesting who the abductor might be...Murat is going to get the biggest libel payout in history because of papers pointing the finger at him, they are not going to go that far again! Also it would make their earlier allegations concerning Murat look even sillier. The McCann machine already know they breached the criminal law in his case by seeking to pervert the course of justice, never mind libelling him, they are steering well clear of that now because they know how much trouble they are in over falsely seeking to set him up. Jane went to great lengths in Panorama to insist she was not suggesting it was Robert Murat, then why did she change her statement to say this man walked straight to his villa..too late Jane!

I wholeheartedly agree newspapers know stuff they are not allowed to print. This is why the Daily Express printed what they did, because they knew for a fact the McCanns are guilty.

viv said...

Hiya Ecolab

Their reaction to my comments is a great barometer of how close I am getting in my thinking. As you say when you get a reaction like that you know you are getting very close indeed to the truth.

They do not know the first thing about criminal or libel law do they!

We both have the training and experience to know what we are looking at...

Viv x

Wizard said...

Of one thing I am certain the dogs detected the scent of a corpse in apartment 5A therefore if there was an abductor they would have had to enter the apartment prior to Gerry and Kate leaving for dinner and accidental or otherwise have killed Madeleine then left without her parents knowing. When Gerry returns at 9.00pm looked loving at his daughter “lying in the recovery position” and believed her asleep and leaves. The abductor then returns to 5A two hours later and removed the dead child. This leaves Kate at 10.00pm to raise the alarm.

Well is this likely?

atardi said...

Hi everyone,

Celebrating mother's day here.

LGC, thank you for very much searching. I don't think it was Steradent otherwise I would recognize it. It was smt people in England use for net curtains.

Hope,

If you are reading I hope you are pain-free now. I have sent you a mail.

Stella,

About the tennis photo, you mentioned the middle part of the court. I blew this part (without Madeleine) up to 100% and saw a white thing. Have you seen this also?

Niki,
Everything ok? Nice to see you again.

To the Portuguese and Spanish posters,

How is the weather now. I saw on the news you had a lot of rain.

It's so hot here.

To all will read you back later.

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

Succinctly put - how did the smell of corpse get in there if the abductor never turned up until at least 9.15 - simply not possible.

What is worse still for the McCanns the smell of death was found in entirely separate places. Apt 5a, the hire car, the key fob, and in August in the new villa they rented on Kate's jean and top. How is this anything at all to do with a supposed abductor and did this dog with a 100% accuracy record make a mistake in three separate locations? I really dont think so!

Viv x

mariana said...

wizzard

Didn't they see the bloody footprint?
wow, they missed that too?

mariana said...

Viv

Gerry is a clever guy, no death smell on him.

Cláudia said...

Hi, Atardi! Hope you're ok.

No rain in Viseu at all. Even a shy sun. But there was quite some rain in other parts of the country. Thank you.

Wizard said...

Mariana – its strange how the smell of a corpse was not on Gerry. I’m not sure if this is fact or fiction but wasn’t it O’Brien who had the scent of a corpse on his trousers?

mariana said...

Hi Claudia
Nice to see you again.
Did you have fun today?

mariana said...

wizard
I believe it was on Kate only.
O'Brien would have been made arguido if it was.

Wizard said...

Mariana – it must be a 3A’s myth.

Ecolab said...

What really bothers me!

1) Gerry's first words to Kate's mother, Susan Healy, were: "There's been a disaster. It's a disaster."

2) Kate's first words to her mother, Susan Healy, after Madeleine's disappearance were: "She's gone, mum. She's gone."

3) Gerry rings his sister, Trish Cameron, at 23:40 on 03 May 2007 in Scotland

Trish revealed: "He was breaking his heart, saying 'Madeleine's been abducted, she's been abducted'."
Trish said: "When Kate checked, she came out screaming. Maddy had gone. The door was open and the window in the bedroom and shutters were jemmied open. Nothing had been touched and no valuables taken."
"Kate came screaming back to the group crying, 'They’ve taken her, they’ve taken her'. Gerry was crying and roaring like a bull."

According to my vocabulary is ”they” more than one person? How does Kate know?
------
4) Widow Mrs Fenn told police that two nights before Madeleine went missing she heard a little girl in the apartment crying for over an hour.

She said the toddler, who is believed to have been Madeleine, was crying "Daddy, daddy" constantly between 10.30 and 11.45pm.
The crying had stopped when the parents returned to the apartment.
On the night Madeleine disappeared, Mrs Fenn also heard a child crying, but it was when Kate returned from a nearby restaurant to check on her daughter that she was first aware something was wrong.
A source close to Mrs Fenn said: "She often sits on the balcony at night and heard a commotion downstairs.
"She heard the woman who she now knows to be Kate crying ‘We have let her down, we have let her down'."
The source added: "She did not understand what was meant by this, but she asked if they wanted her to call the police. She was told it had already been done."

5) David Paine : Commenting on the fact that the McCanns had been made offical suspects, he said: "We know they didn't do it. One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but didn't in our worst nightmare think it would be this."

When contacted by Portuguese newspaper, Sol, David Payne said: "We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else's business."

Minutes after trying to contact Kate, Gerry, in a fury, called the Sol journalist: "What do you think you are doing? Do you think you’re better than the Portuguese police? I’m going to forward your contact to PJ and you will have to explain yourselves."

6) Dianne Webster, Dr Fiona Payne's mother, is alleged to have told police that each couple were responsible for checking their own children.

It is widely reported that she was the only member of the Tapas group to remain seated following Kate's announcement that Madeleine had been 'taken' and has never given any interviews or offered any statements.

7) The most peculiar thing is, that Dianne Webster is supposed to go along ALONE attending a holyday week between younger people? Not as a granny or a babysitter. Very strange endeed. I would expect a partner.

8) Find the body, and prove we did it.

What about that rumor ”Swingers”?

Who paid for that holyday? Were it pictures like this or ”please yourself”?

Lolita


As you might be aware, 2 years ago, we had this terrible case in Denmark, about two little sisters abused by their parents and sold for sex. There were cars collecting the customers for a sexseance with the girls. So yes, those things do happend.

Wizard said...

The article below is said to be from todays Sunday Express and appeared on 3A's is this a joke or did they really publish this?

Yesterday the couple were buoyed by the news that London Metropolitan Police want to become more involved in the hunt for their daughter. a source close to the family said: "Kate and Gerry have made it clear they are unhappy with the lack of progress in this inquiry."
"It is now more than a year since their daughter disappeared and they are still no nearer finding out what happened. Scotland Yard is pushing to get involved."

Officers from the Met now want a bigger role and freedom to work alongside Spanish private investigators Metodo 3, who were hired by the couple eight months ago.

a source close to the investigation said: "For some time Metropolitan officers have been offering technical advice and helping to do things such as trace phone calls. they have been helping their counterparts in Leicestershire, which is the force in direct contact with Portuguese police and which is carrying out witness interviews. They now want a more active role in the inquiry to help find Madeleine and bring her home to her family."

Kate 40, and Gerry 39, would welcome a fuller involvement from scotland Yard, especially as the National director of portugal's police, who seemed to be on the couples side, has announced he is to quit.

Alipio Ribiero, 48 is set to leave three months after saying that Portuguese detectives had been hasty in branding the couple official suspects.

The McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "Kate and Gerry have cooperated fully with police in this investigation and will continue to do so.
"We just want to reiterate our desire for Kate and Gerry to be eliminated as suspects as soon as possible."

mariana said...

wizard
The Yard working with the M3?
Only to arrest some of them.

viv said...

Mariana

I agree ...what a huge joke, Scotland Yard work with M3! Police work is confidential, you cannot investigate suspects by working with their own bunch of overpaid suspects. In any case whilst it may well be true Scotland Yard have given some specialist assistance they are not the forces working on this case, they are Leics Police and the PJ, much to the chagrin of the McCanns.

I think these articles are sometimes a bit of a joke, purely to increase sale, they cannot be taken seriously, any more than Clarence Mithcell and his "clients" can. They do not dictate who carries out investigations and they would not truly want Scotland Yard involved because they would be on the same side as the other police forces, the side of law, order and locking lying criminals up.

mariana said...

Viv
I think all this spin comes out of the McCann desperation... of what is about to follow.
CM does his routine and that is all. Actually I am fed up with him.

viv said...

RE death smell only being on Kate's clothing.

There have been a number of indications of Gerry McCann and his sister Philomena seeking to set Kate up. Philomena avidly describing Kate's screaming rage at 3 am following being made an arguida. Gerry again suggesting she is dangerous/mad by pointing out whenever he went away for the weekend he got Kate's parents to come and stay etc so that she was not left alone. There have been many less than subtle hints like this. Given what I believe is the earlier history maybe Kate just cannot come clean it would be too shocking a tale of parental neglect and abuse to tell..Madeleine is not the only female in that household who got abused is she?

dolores said...

Wizard
Inever saw this article in DX from the early hours of today onwards.And find it hard o beleive.
Idid post this last night though.
Which contradicts it.


Maddie: parents would be happy if the trial is archived

Clarence Mitchell, responsible for communication which represents Kate and Gerry McCann, was congratulée yesterday about a possible opportunity that the Portuguese authorities decided to archive the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine.

The former head of the Unit for Media Monitoring of the British government, with whom he maintained close relations in the file McCann, spoke yesterday in Dublin during the annual conference of the Public Relations Institute of Ireland (PRII ) Or he was the main speaker.
"If they will archive the case, then, in a sense this would be welcome, because it would mean that Kate and Gerry would be eliminated from the investigation," said Clarence Mitchell.

" The new statements by Clarence Mitchell were greeted with surprise in Portugal because, according to a source of the Public Ministry, "there is no intention of the Portuguese authorities to abandon the investigation. Let us not forget that the primary objective of the work the police is to find Madeleine, is she the victim. "

According to Clarence Mitchell, the McCann family considers the resignation of Alipio Ribeiro of the PJ and his comments about the survey as a sign of the disappearance of Madeleine will never be solved.The spokesman also appealed to the authorities in charge of the survey asking them to "restore their case to private investigators."

As a reminder, the Judicial Police, Portugal, and Leicestershire Police, the United Kingdom, are responsible for investigations in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Several other police forces, particularly in Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium and Morocco, not to mention Interpol, have been linked to the investigation.

"This is unsustainable. They should provide information on their files to our private investigators so they can continue to find Madeleine," said Clarence Mitchell.

The agency Barcelona, Metodo 3, after more than six months of investigations, been undermined by public statements by its director, Francisco Marco, who had promised the return of Madeleine "in time for the feast of Christmas" 2007. The arrest of one of the detectives, accused of stealing hundreds of kilos of cocaine, among other charges, and the revelation that there would have been paid witnesses in Morocco, have disparaged even more image Metodo 3.

viv said...

Does anyone have a view as to why Madeleine just kept crying Daddy, Daddy when left alone, two nights earlier?

Viv x

mariana said...

dolores

"If they will archive the case, then, in a sense this would be welcome, because it would mean that Kate and Gerry would be eliminated from the investigation."

Translation
"All we care about is to free Kate & Gerry of this menace arguido status. Everything else comes second."

P.S. He is fishing for PJ reactions.

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

There is a big difference between what the McCanns would like to see, M3 investigating and the painful reality for them isn't there. Still they can persist with their wishful thinking and attempts to re-interpret the resignation of Ribeiro to suit their own desperate spin. The reality is far more painful, now there is a policeman in charge, nice try though Clarry to try and make this sound like a positive for them!

Since when did police hand over their files to a bunch of crooks, Clarence sounds just like the utter prat that he is!

Viv x

mariana said...

Viv
Maybe, mummy was strict with Madeleine?

Ecolab said...

Viv

It can be several things:

Daddy, daddy (come home)!

Daddy, daddy (stop)!

or as mrs.Finn said:

"Daddy I eat, daddy I eat"?

Which I still translate through my(as mrs. Finn) foreing ears:
" Daddy I bleed, daddy I bleed"

dolores said...

Viv,
Madeleine's crying to me is one of two or three ideas,one that she was crying for her daddy for help,if she was being harmed by someone,or she was being harmed by her daddy,crying pleadingly for him to stop.Or she could have had a bad fall and crying for help.IMO

X D

Wizard said...

Viv, why Madeleine kept calling daddy, daddy. According to the waiters it was always the men that checked on the children. Therefore it was her father she would be expecting to see or her father who had just left and she was calling after him. The 3rd May being the exception to the rule.

Wizard said...

Viv, why Madeleine kept calling daddy, daddy. According to the waiters it was always the men that checked on the children. Therefore it was her father she would be expecting to see or her father who had just left and she was calling after him. The 3rd May being the exception to the rule.

ratonthebeam said...

I still think it might have been one of the twins, crying "Maddy, Maddy" ....

Ecolab said...

Dolores

Exactly - just the 3 possibilities - no more, no less

Ecolab said...

According to the Police, was Maddie deadly harmed INSIDE the appartment

dolores said...

Viv,
Is this why they are desperate 20 yrs?

"We still hope that Madeleine's parents decide to participate ... logically, they should be the first to be interested," says a police officer of Leicestershire

The arguido status can be maintained under certain conditions, for twenty years.

XX D

mariana said...

Dolores
If I may yes, the arguido status can be on for 20 years.

dolores said...

I would like the pink liar to tell the press in detail the co-operation given by the Mc's.
All we have seen is the case being frustrated by their lies and spin,and everything in their power to hinder the investigation,



The McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "Kate and Gerry have co-operated fully with police in this investigation and will continue to do so.

mariana said...

Guess who has won the international joke of the year award.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Viv,

Had the same problem with access to the blog that others have experienced. Strange message implying double-blogtendre...

Anyway, here I am now. I accept what you say about the implication of the PJ not finding the evidence of an abductor, but then, the NOTW doesn't labour the point at all. I reckon if they were trying to finger the police they would hammer it home in their usual fashion, which they don't.

Thanks for your kind compliments! However, I don't think the tabloid press can do subtle very easily - if they meant to finger the PJ, I think they'd make it much clearer.

Regarding pointing out suspects for abducting Madeleine, it would be important, from a journalistic point of view, to bring the subject up, regardless whether any particular person was implicated or not. They don't do this here. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's a noticeable absence.

Putting it all together, I still feel there's an agenda here, but one which will be impossible for the Team McCann to sue over.

Gina said...

Hi All

Viv/Ecolab I know I am putting my head in a noose saying this, as this is Viv's blog but I really think the comments and views you have made regards Madeleine being abused would have been best kept to yourselves at this stage. IM0 (although you may even be right) we should wait to see if the McCanns are actually charged with anything before speculating further. As yet they have not even been charged with "abandonment".

I know everything everyone says is just theory and speculation but sometimes I feel we all get a bit carried away. I am on the fence and believe absolutely ANYTHING is possible, I even have some theories of my own, but with nothing at all to back them up I choose to keep them to myself at this stage. Viv as you know I will defend people when I feel the need (as when you were accused of harrassing posters) and I will disagree when I feel the need also and on this occasion I have to disagree with you both (not saying you are wrong, just feel you should not post comments like that IMO) Sorry but that is the way I feel and just felt I had to say so

LittleGreyCell said...

Atardi,

Just found this for you:-

"A safer tip which viewers could use was to clean net curtains with denture tablets in a bowl of water and to add the nets folded to save ironing them later on. Once cleaned Kim put each net curtain onto a large towel of the same colour and roll the nets into it and then place it on the floor and stand on the towel to dry out the net curtains. Kim called this her dance of joy."

This is a tip from Aggie, one of the women on the TPTW.

Presumably this will work with bras!

http://www.aboutaberdeen.com/aggiemackenzie.php

LittleGreyCell said...

Has anyone seen Hope since her dental appointment on Friday?

dolores said...

LGC
I thought she was here yesterday.
Not sure though.

Gina said...

LGC I thin Hope posted on Saturday morning about 8.20 - 8.30 and said she was still in agony

LittleGreyCell said...

Dolores/Gina,

Many thanks for that info on Hope.

Gina: Since you have an open mind of what happened to Madeleine I wonder if you'd endorse my favourite theory of an invisible, inaudible, hovering alien abduction? I feel somehow I'm on my own here for some reason... :)

Did you see me give another cleaning tip?! Must stop, my husband will be thinking things I'd rather he didn't.

viv said...

Hi Gina,

Why should we keep our comments to ourselves as to what we feel may have happened to Madeleine? The right to freely express opinions on the case without attacks from McCann manipulators is one of the main purpose of this blog which I set up in direct response to the behaviour on the Daily Express and will continue to be.

Ecolab said...

LittleGreyCell

Hope posted yesterday morning at Saturday, 10 May 2008 08:22:00 in the previus tread

viv said...

Hi all

thanks for your response as to why you feel Madeleine was shouting Daddy, Daddy, when left alone two nights before.

I think it is most likely to be that he was the only one that ever came and checked her and therefore she called for him but also do not discount the possibility she was asking him to stop because simply shouting that does seem a little odd although no doubt Mrs Fenn would have found that so upsetting she may have just remembered the most prominent words that she clearly heard.

Eco: Mrs Fenn is from UK and so would not have misunderstood what she heard due to language
difficulty.


Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Thank you, Ecolab.

I missed that. I know she had a major dental appointment on Friday and was a little concerned (I HATE going to the dentist, myself!)

LittleGreyCell said...

I'm off now to spend some time with my family - and I'm not even a politician! How can this be?!

Have a good evening, folks.

See you tomorrow.

X

viv said...

HI all RE HOPE

I have seen a comment from Hope, I think on the 29 April on Supertroll's blog where it would seem she thought she was trying to post on here and not getting through. Maybe she has been in so much pain? I know that toothache and earache are reputed to be two of the worse kinds of places to experience pain.

I do hope she is OK.

Occasionally it would seem people get on messages when trying to post on blogger, I do myself sometimes. It pays to just try again and not see anything sinister in that. There is no way I can block people who are registered to this site. Those messages comes from google itself but I think there are some gremlins in the system as I know a few people have sometimes had difficulty.

Viv x

Gina said...

Hi Viv, I take your point, and I am also glad that I can from time to time disagree without being deleted as is the case on the manipulators blog:-)

LGC I did consider abduction by aliens but dismissed it because they usually beam you up rather than climb out of the window. However if these aliens have no facial features I may have to reconsider it following the description of eggman.

Atardi I am still having a think about the net curtains, long time since I had any, will get back to you if I remember what is good

Zodiac said...

LGC,

"I reckon Clarrie's gone to Ireland to campaign for Gerry to be the next Pope. Sadly, he did miss out on being Scotsman of the year, so this could be his next campaign...!"

Sunday, 11 May 2008 18:00:00 o'clock BST

I think you could be right.

I attended a First Holy Communion yesterday the Priest said during the service "it has been a year since Michelle was kidnapped, lets all pray for Michelle and hope that Michelle will be returned to her loving family soon" the woman beside me put her hand over her mouth and burst out laughing as did several others around me and no doubt throughout the Chapel. If he had said Margaret (3 A's) I think I would have PMSL, I was shocked that he mentioned this at all. Although I was shocked when he told all the little children that 9/05/08 (the day b4 their Communion) was a happy and sad day for him. It was his Mummy's birthday, she had died 12 years ago and for the last 6 months of her life she was in a Hospice and blind, her sense of smell became stronger and she loved the smell of Roses, then he went on at great length about Christ's oil, on and on and on, Mummy died, on and on then he said and I now have something special to show you (a man behind said to the woman he was with "I hope it's no his Mammy") it was a glass bottle containg Christ's oil. After the service someone from outside the district who attended the service said she thought he was talking about a local girl, she did not realise he meant Madeleine, she was not aware it was confirmed as a kidnapping and should he really be stating it was.

Gina said...

Atardi, I just remembered. Yes LGC is correct, you can add a denture cleaning tablet to the water when washing nets and this will make them white or you can add 2 cups of Epsom Salts to the final rinse in a washing machine.

LGC You suggest the twins were calling Maddie, but I thought she would not be called Maddie and wanted to be called Madeleine, so I think it was more likely daddy. However unless we know how they referred to each other it is difficult to guess. For all we know they might call Gerry, Sir

viv said...

Hi Gina

I read that it was the McCanns themselves at a press conference who stated they objected to press reports calling her Maddy and wanted her proper named to be used in all reports. This does not mean that she was not called Maddy at home.

atardi said...

Hi everyone again,

Cláudia,
I'm ok. I have been reading all posts(but not all posts from today(.

I had a problem. I suffer from hey fever. But the last 5 years it wasn't severe. Last thursday I was at an amusement park with the kids and from the moment I entered I got "sick". And had not brought medication with me.

Next day I was working in the garden and neededsome eye drops. But took ear drops. So I had only my right eye left to read but couldn't post.

Glad you haven't had rain the whole day. Are you settled now?

viv said...

Guys

Docmac tells me he spent 5 minutes doing a rush photoshop job and also commented:

Even the shadows on the dress from the ‘other’ hair are gone. Imagine what can be done with an hour or two to spare.

For the results of his handiwork look above, it just goes to show how easy it is! I have to say I found the image rather spooky..


Viv x

atardi said...

LGC and Gina,

See you tomorrow.

Gina said...

Blimey Doc, I am impressed!! Although don't take that as too much of a compliment because my understanding of computers and the like are zero. However it makes me understand what you have all been trying to explain verbally, all very spooky

Zodiac said...

Viv,

That certainly looks like the almost four year old. That pic gives me shivers down my spine.

bath theory said...

One of the weird things about children who are abused is despite all kinds of nastiness they usually adore and love their parents. They are desperate to please.

They are so pure and innocent in thought and all they want to do is please their parents. I remember seeing a documentary on television about this based on a little boy.

It seems likely that Madeleine was calling her dads name because she may well have been desperate to please him as she couldn't make sense of something he was or wasn't doing. (IMO)

Either that or it was simply because it was the dad's who checked every now and again.

bath theory said...

Goodnight all , this heat over here in London is stifling. Must get to bed to ensure my brain gets some rest.

I feel certain that the McCann's are feelin' very hot today and it is nothing to do with the weather.

LittleGreyCell said...

Gina,

Re: 22.08

Give up the cleaning tips, write comedy.

:)

LittleGreyCell said...

Zodiac,

That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard! Was Alan Bennett there with his notebook?

Oy veh!

Gina said...

Well I am off to bed now, flying to the the States tomorrow evening to spend a few months with my son and daughter in law in New England. Not sure when I will be back, July/August I guess, hopefully by then something regards this case will have been concluded. I sincerely hope so, I think if it goes on much longer we will all go loopy. Best wishes to you all xx

LittleGreyCell said...

Atardi, Bath Theory.

Goodnight both.

Enjoy the warmth, Bath Theory. Here in Surrey it's got a little chilly now. (Ah, to live in the middle of nowhwere).

X

LittleGreyCell said...

Bye Gina!

Wishing you a lovely time! Hopefully you'll find time to communicate from NE when you can.

Have a wonderful summer!

X

bath theory said...

The clean air of the country reminds me of the whole charade LGC !! Goodnight all

Gina said...

Thanks LGC, I didn't know I was going until Friday night when my son called and said come over. He then booked the flight on line and that was that. He has loads of computers in the house, so I will probably be able to look in, although they are going to want to catch up on all the news of the family etc etc and have some fun.

Wish they could beam me up, it takes so long to get there door to door so to speak. Anyway it will be worth it, Cheerio must get some shut eye because tomorrow it will be red eye

viv said...

Bye Gina and I know you will have a wonderful time with your children in NE.

By the time you get back we will be near the end of the process, I think. I am sure you will find that a great relief, in fact if it shuts Team McCann up I reckon the whole world will breathe a deep sigh of pure joy!

Luv Viv x

viv said...

Goodnight Bath and good to hear from you again.

Viv x

leigh3 said...

LGC.

What you say is quite right. 'Do not despair.'

I agree with you that it is true to say that the NoW articles are incriminating, however they have receicved a verbal smack for their publishing on this story today.

Disgraceful. Not journalism. Just corrupt PR. No child can be safe when PR pimps subvert justice, and the UKs laws on child safety.

Will read back on other posts today.

Hello Darlings! See you later if you're here.

LittleGreyCell said...

Leigh - verbal smack??

viv said...

Bath just wanted to say your above post was very good. To children who are treated this way that is what they understand love to be, it is very sad. In between the ages of 2 and 4 Madeleine would have been learning more than she would ever have been able to absorb throughout the rest of her life, if she had been allowed to have one, it would have been a very damaged one. So many children grow up with this terrible affliction. This is why I want to raise the agenda of this and see what we can do to protect others.

The picture of Madeleine by Doc, so we now have her four year head on a three year old body. It is very spooky and there is no doubt so many pictures we have seen have been cropped and otherwise messed around with. The very sad picture of Madeleine is part of a video. Now why would they have been videoing such a sad looking child? I really try not to go there it is so awful but we must because this is what happens to so many children.

Viv x

leigh3 said...

Yes, LGC. Verbal smack. As you know, we do have certain publishing laws and customs in the UK. We also have laws on child protection.

Sometimes, news rooms need a little reminder that their efforts fall within those laws, and customs. They can resist at their peril. Their peril is that they lose support from some quarters; the kind of support that outlives any one sordid story; a sordid story like the McCanns, for example.

Zodiac said...

Night all,

Read you tomorrow.

Viv/Doc,

Is it possible to have the Mac's pool pic and Doc's pool pic side by side or above and below to compare.
Very interesting.

leigh3 said...

Hi and bye Viv.
Just stopping by momentarily. Don't intend to be rude. Reading back on comments, I see that honest inquiry continues; the raison d'etre of your blog, Viv. Fab.
Night y boa noite Portugal, our true friend.
x
leigh

Cláudia said...

Hi, guys!

Mariana, yes, I had a good time, thank you. Hope youalso had a good Sunday.

Atardi, I'm still not settled yet. Some furniture is still not ready and I am also expecting my brand new computer.

As for Madeleine, I never thought that she was abused in the way people usually understand abuse (smacking, starving, etc). And it never crossed my mind that Madeleine was ever sexually abused. And I still have no reason to believe that. In fact, I never even believed Madeleine has been murdered. But I do believe that she was an abused child because I consider neglect a form of abuse. If your 3 year old daughter and your two 2 year old twins are not more important than a meal and drinks with friends, than you are abusing you children. I do believe Madeleine was a very unfortunate child. I believe the McCanns are selfish, irresponsible, crappy parents who never deserved being blessed with Madeleine, Sean and Amelie. I believe that if they were Portuguese they would be in court by now and that Social Services would be taking measures to protect the twins. I find teir attitudes and behaviours disgusting and I do not have one bit of compassion for them. I have been saying for many months now that if it was up to me they would do jail time because of the neglect alone, especially because they never had the decency to admit that what they did was a criminal act. Yes, neglect is a crime and they know it well. Leaving your children alone night after night to meet the group of friends you are so much into is desrespecting and abusing them. That has always been my opinion and it will never change, no matter how many insults and threats will be thrown at me.

leigh3 said...

Claudia,
Well said. Neglect is a crime against children. Tis their tragedy that many adults excuse neglect. It is illegal. It is immoral.

Nothing can excuse it. The McCanns are a moral tale of our times.

What is right or wrong. Negligent parents or innocent children?

This argument rages on.

No surrender, Claudia. Not now. Not ever.

Cláudia said...

Leigh,

sometimes I imagine how those poor children felt when they where left alone. If it is true (and CM apparently confirmed it) that Madeleine herself complained about being left alone, how could those two sorry excuses for parents have the nerve of abandoning them once again? How could they do it? They disgust me. I don't know if Madeleine suffered or not (I believe she has been dead since May 3rd). I hope she didn't. I hope she wasn's scared. But if she was, I hope they feel it too every single day of their lives.

viv said...

Hiya Leigh and Claudia

Your opinions are greatly respected on here, that is what matters.

Zodiac, I will try and arrange the poolside pics at the top of this thread both Docs fake and Gerry's fake! Keep watching, hopefully it should not take me long. I just added a few pics at the side...

Viv x

leigh3 said...

Claudia,
I stayed on line just to have this conversation with a like minded soul. Please believe that your thoughts and feelings exist in the UK too.

Please don't upset yourself with thoughts of what may have been; what Madeleine or any child would feel when they are abandoned by their parents, as Madeleine, Sean and Amelie were, night after night.

Best think of what can be done to spare them and other children from a similar fate. Honest inquiry, upholding civilised laws and customs in defence of the defenceless - now that is worth your attention, your feelings, your thoughts, and efforts, I think.

Claudia: this is an unpopular cause. Children have no money of their own, no independent voice, no control over their fate.

Yet their fate is our fate. Abandon the child, and abandon all hope.

Nice to see you, Claudia, as ever. Tomorrow is another day. Stay strong. Rest well. Children need responsible adults.
Night night.
xo
leigh

viv said...

Zodiac the size of the pics means I cannot line them up side by side but has anyone noticed the horrible grey colour of Madeleine's neck, would they shadow do this or the messing about with the pic, I dont know as it not something I am expert at all..hence my rather rough and ready production of chinadoll!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Hello, my dear friend Viv.

Of course I know that. And you, more than anyone, know exactly what I think about all this. We go a long way back, querida amiga! :-)

Leigh, I know you are right. But sometimes I just cannot avoid imagining what it was like for them there all alone while their parents were eating, drinking and laughing, forgetting that they had three children. Thank you for your words, Grandma Leigh.

Madeleine would be 5 years old today. May her soul be in peace. And may the ones responsible for her fate be brought to justice. Sooner or later. One way or another.

leigh3 said...

Dear Claudia, our friend in Portugal, the UKs oldest ally.

Emotion is for the living. Logic will find justice for the dead. Rely on it.

Justice for Madeleine, and every child, however long it takes, whatever it takes.
xo
'Grandma' Leigh, aged 102!
Zzzzzzzzzz now. I need sleep even if you don't!

viv said...

Darling we certainly do go a long way back and I have shared the sadness and the laughter with you along the way. Sometimes we do need to make sure we do not dwell too much on just how horrible this case is. It is healthy to take a break from being serious. Maybe was a sad and abused little girl, from what the McCanns admit to we know that for a fact, although they are not prepared to admit the emotional turmoil and real fear they would have subjected her to. They can only look at physical facts and do not seem to be able or want to consider more abstract concepts like emotional harm but this can produce the most lasting damage of all to little children. It is the fact they do not seem to have any concept of this type of serious harm that makes them such a danger to be around children IMO, if they are to stand any chance of growing up to be normal, happy adults.

How typically lovely of you to remember it is Madeleine's 5th birthday today. Something her mum and dad do not intend to celebrate. But we will imagine little Madeleine being 5 and being a happy little girl too, if it were not for her rotten parents.

JUSTICE FOR DEAR LITTLE MADDIE X

Cláudia said...

Sleep well, Leigh.

Dear Viv, sweet Madeleine would still be here if her parents had a functioning brain and especially a functioning heart. The hell with them.

Sleep well, darling. I have an early start tomorrow. May God bless Madeleine.

Niki said...

I found this "Poetry For a Child By a Child", and hope you don't mind me posting it here today, in memory of Madeleine, who is not going to celebrate her 5.birthday...

'CHILDREN OF THE WORLD'

Boys and girls, children or child.
Some are good and some are wild.


Chris, Tommy, Debbie or Jane.
We are all different, yet the same.


We could be black, yellow, brown or white.
It doesn't matter, everyone should be treated right!


If you see a child who needs a helping hand,
don't turn away, help him understand!


We're children of the world, can't you see.
Let you be you! and me be me!

by Brittney Monique Grimes, 8 years.

Niki said...

Morning Docmac! What a spine-chilling picture you made!!:-(

Viv, hi!
I'm again catching up with old subjects... I would belive Madeleine was crying Daddy, Daddy, because she was afraid of her mum. Remember to have read somewhere that Madeleine used to wake up at night and come in to G&K's bedroom, but after putting up some goldstars (?) as reward, she had nearly stopped this habit. She had already collected "quite a few stars". I was thinking at the time I was reading this, what was the "punishment" if she still woke up? Guess Gerry was long gone for work in the morning when Madeleine woke up, and Kate was the one to either put a star on the wall or to punish her little daughter...

--
Atardi! Hope your eyes are ok again!!

Niki

Gina said...

Good Morning all. I posted last night that I was off to the States tonight & am just waiting for friends to arrive who will stay at my house and take care of the dogs etc. (Hope it stops raining for them!!) Anyway I just posted the following on Trolls site, and thought I would post it here too because it just might make people with more knowledge than me think about, is there anything useful we can do. bye all Take Care

I know what I am about to say is going to have the p*ss taken out of it, but if just one person takes me seriously it will be worth it.

"My knowledge of computers is zero but my son knows a lot about them as it is his job. I am off this evening to visit him in the USA and hope he will be able to answer some of my questions and teach me what I need to know, which is how to hack into sites, and get peoples ID's. If this is possible, when I return I intend to try and use this knowledge to gain access to chat sites etc. and try to locate, Paedos and perverts who prey on young kids on the internet. I will have to do a lot of research before I start doing this because I need to learn many things first, ie about how to speak with them, and what to do with the info once I have it, and to ensure someone knows what I am doing in advance.

Now the point of telling you this is, many of you claim to already have this knowledge. Many seem determined to out bloggers, well fine if you think it will make a difference, but why not devote some of your time doing what I suggest. If you are successful and you save just one child from being drawn in by these sickos it would be something to be proud of. The internet does need policing and I don't know how that can be done, maybe those of you with more experience could suggest something or if you prefer just rip this post apart which is the norm."

Niki said...

Buenos dias Gina.

Thats a good suggestion for anyone who has "the stomach" to do so...

I do belive it might be dangerous though... If police find your adress on that kind of sites, I don't think it would help you much to say: "I tried to locate and trap some paedoes".I do not think you will get approval from the police in advance, they have their own teames working with the same all over the world.

--
Have a good flight and happy holidays:-)
Niki

Gina said...

Niki, As I said I would have to do a lot of research first and as I have many friends in the Police force and I would not even think about doing this until I have spoken with them. I know they have their own team but perhaps they could do with some help. Maybe they would be interested in training people to do this sort of thing from home. It is only a thought at this stage, but worth further investigation IMO. I have the stomach for it if it makes a difference and helps but I would not even think about it without approval. I just feel I want to do something useful and hope others may give other ideas some thought too xx

Niki said...

Bless you Gina... The world needs more people like you, who do not want to close your eyes to cruelty!

Niki said...

Just had a look at Gerry's blog. Expected to find something like this:

...Our dearest Madeleine. Today is your fifth birthday. We schould have woken you up with candles and kake, singing "happy birthday", brought you some presents and seen your lovely smile...
(could have continiude on this one...)

Instead Gerry writes:
Gerry's Blog
Day 374: 11/05/2008 Day: 374

It has been another busy week. We have been inundated with mail that we are working through. Kate and I would like to thank everyone who has helped and supported us over the last twelve months. It is the support we have received from family, friends, and the overwhelming response of the general public that has sustained us. Special thanks to everyone who has contributed to Madeleine’s Fund, which has allowed us to continue the independent investigation to find Madeleine.

Following our renewed appeal there has been a tremendous response to both the call line ( +44 (0)845 838 4699 ) and the e-mail addresses (anonymous@findmadeleine.com and investigation@findmadeleine.com). Hundreds of calls and e-mails have been received and each and every bit of information will be assessed and followed up. We would encourage anyone who might have information to contact us in confidence. We would like to hear from everyone who was staying at the Ocean Club at the time of Madeleine’s abduction or from anyone who may have experienced a similar incident in the Iberia peninsula.

Tomorrow is Madeleine’s fifth birthday. It will be one of the hardest days of the last 375. We will be marking it privately and quietly. We will do everything to try and ensure Madeleine does not spend another birthday separated from her family.

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