25 May 2008

TAPAS ONLY CHECKED APT 5A ON 3 MAY!

If looks alone could kill, this one would surely do it! I think it says you put me here and I really dont like you..
I will never forget a post made by Rosiepops in about October on the Daily Express. She said that the McCanns had to immediately patent Madeleine's image, just like they had to immediately patent Princess Diana's image, after her death, because they did not want people using Madeleine's image to be used to produce "Madeleine dolls" and stopping the money from going to the Fund, Kate and Gerry McCann's fund. Clarence, on their behalf has angrily defended their right to ensure that all Maddie profits go to them and the comparison with the Fund for Princess Diana is utterly sinister, especially when you look at sickening Kate McCann, below, doing a Princess Diana, she soils the memory of a wonderful woman, who was genuinely devoted to defenceless little children.




Hi All, The article below from The Times follows the assumption that all of the friends children were in the McCann apartment that night. This is taken from 24 Horas, a paper I simply do not trust. When you read it, the assumption comes from the fact that all witnesses independent of the TAPAS crew stated that only the McCanns apartment was visited by any of the TAPAS crew that night.






I think the explanation for this is clear and simple. The TAPAS crew simply did not bother about checking on their children. We know that from the fact they were at Chaplins the previous night and Madeleine cried from about 10.30 to 11.45, well over an hour, when clearly she was not checked.






The reason witnesses saw members of the TAPAS crew visit the McCanns apartment that night is because they were assisting in cleaning and removing Madeleine's body from the apartment. It is also confirmed again, Kate and Gerry did not go out at about 8.30 or 8.40 as he suggested in Panorama, they went out at 8 pm and as he said the restaurant was virtually empty at that stage, because it was early, I would suggest. Remember he said there was one other couple when they arrived and when they left they were alone until other people started to arrive.






I think Gerry needed to get Kate out that apartment as quickly as possible (for obvious reasons) and start preparations for the clean up. OB was the main one who was going to help out here, going missing just as Gerry made sure he was back at the table at 9.30 and called the woman over to prove it. By this stage Gerry had an hour and a half to start putting his plans into action and when OB took over he was exchanging texts with him. Someone saw someone looking like Gerry with a child, near the church around 9 pm. The description of the man Jane Tanner gave to police is a description of Gerry McCann. I think he knew someone had spotted him removing Madeleine, initially to the beach area.






Remember also forensic evidence of Madeleine was found in another apartment, I would suggest, probably the OB's right next door. Perhaps the body was initially moved there, perhaps OB was working on Maddie trying to save her? He is an accident and emergency consultant, an obvious expert to work on a child who got battered or overdosed.






As Eco points out the genuine last pic of Madeleine, the tennis balls pic, shows her with many bruises and she just looks like an abused child to me in that pic, this is why the McCanns did not want to use it. Gerry went home for two days and three weeks later produced a fake last pic of Maddie by the pool. Anyone can see she is aged about three on that pic, not four and her hair is blonder and shorter. I have always believed it is very possible that he and Jane heard more commotion, domestic violence, as happened the previous night, which Mrs Fenn heard and went around to see what was going on and found Madeleine dying. OB tried to save her and that is how he got dragged in. Jane also got dragged in providing false evidence of Madeleine being abducted.






I was interested to read that Dr Rebelo is the man who cracked the Casa Pia paedophile ring in Portugal and then he is brough in to investigate this case. Something tells me there is a link here. I think Madeleine was a seriously abused child. People who have sought to support the McCanns have made the most scurrilous and lurid claims about Madeleine being taken and abused by paedophiles. I just get this awful feeling they were seeking to deflect attention from what the McCanns themselves may have been involved in, in relation to a daughter they showed not the slightest bit of love and concern for, ever but I may be wrong about this. I just think there is so much about this case we do not know and there are terrible revelations to come out. The McCanns have always wanted to use Madeleine to make themselves lots of money, that is very sinister and terrible and certainly does not point to her being accidentally killed by them. However, I do understand the difficulty for Portuguese and British Police, the vital piece of evidence little Madeleine, they got rid of, but little forensic traces of her got left behind. True the police may never be able to prove murder or manslaughter but I definitely feel they can prove more than enough to put this couple away for a very long time and the twins will be accommodated with people they can be safe with. Sometimes it is only one child in a family however who is in real and terrible danger from the parents, that child was poor little Madeleine. Nevertheless their defensive behaviour and their attitudes together with what they actually did, mean they should not be allowed to be anywhere near those twins. In a few months time, I think they will not be anymore.






Viv x















McCann children 'were not alone in apartment'
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Kate and Gerry McCann say there are innocent explanations for all the evidence to not show enlarge option -->
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David Brown
3D model 'casts doubt on Madeleine abduction'
Significant new evidence about the night Madeleine McCann disappeared has been uncovered, it was claimed, as one of Portugal’s most senior detectives took charge of the investigation.
Paulo Rebelo, an assistant national director of the Polícia Judiciária (PJ), took over responsibility for the case last night. He made his name in the investigation into Portugal’s most notorious paedophile ring.
His appointment was made amid reports in Portugal that detectives have evidence contradicting Kate and Gerry McCann's version of the events of the night that they reported their daughter missing.
Related Links
3D model 'casts doubt on Madeleine abduction'
Madeleine evidence inconclusive
New detective to lead Madeleine case
Police believe that Madeleine and her twin brother and sister may not have been alone in the McCann holiday apartment, but that the children of seven British friends who were on holiday with the McCanns were also present when Madeleine disappeared on May 3, the 24 Horas newspaper claimed.
The McCanns, from Rothley, Leicestershire, have insisted that Madeleine was with only her two-year-old twin siblings, Sean and Amelie, while they dined with their friends at a tapas restaurant at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz. The group has claimed that their children were in their own apartments and that they made checks on their own children and those of their friends during the evening.
However, a source within the investigation was quoted by 24 Horas as saying: “It’s not only the collected evidence that points to the fact that there were more children inside that [the McCanns'] apartment.
“Evidence also exists, following the interrogations to the other people who that were at the Ocean Club, that only the McCanns’ apartment was visited by the people who attended the dinner.”
The children had visited each other’s apartments regularly in the six days that they had been at the Ocean Club. The newspaper does not explain how any forensic evidence could be pinpointed to the evening of Madeleine’s disappearance.
The newspaper also casts doubt on claims by one of the McCanns’ friends that he was looking after his unwell daughter when he was away from the restaurant on the evening Madeleine disappeared.
It says that Russell O’Brien, a hospital consultant from Exeter, left the restaurant at 9.35pm and returned at 10pm, just minutes before Mrs McCann discovered that Madeleine was missing. Mr O’Brien has strenuously denied any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance and has never been a formal suspect in the investigation.
24 Horas reported: “The British man guaranteed he took that long because he visited his sick daughter, and she vomited. He says he asked for the sheets to be changed, but the staff at the Ocean Club assured the investigators that nobody asked for any bedsheets to be changed that evening.”







div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited {
color:#06c;
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Mr O’Brien’s partner, Jane Tanner, told police that she had seen a man carrying a girl away from the McCanns’ apartment at 9.15pm. However, another witness has insisted that she was not in the area at that time.
A source within the PJ is quoted by 24 Horas as saying: “In face of so many contradictions and in face of the forensics results that we already hold, we have very few doubts that the girl died inside that apartment, and we only have doubts about who concealed the corpse.”
The report follows claims in the British media that although tests on samples discovered in the McCanns’ apartment and hire car do not prove that Madeleine is dead, they have strengthened the theory that her parents were involved in her disappearance.
A source at the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, which carried out the tests on behalf of the Portuguese authorities, is reported to have said that the results showed police were right to make the couple arguidos, or official suspects.
Related Links
3D model 'casts doubt on Madeleine abduction'
Madeleine evidence inconclusive
New detective to lead Madeleine case
However, the McCanns’ British law firm, Kingsley Napley, has brought in its own forensic team to explain why the samples may be totally unconnected to Madeleine’s disappearance.
The couple insist that any DNA found in the Renault Scenic hired 25 days after Madeleine’s disappearance could have been transferred innocently from their daughter’s clothing when they moved to a new apartment.
Clarence Mitchell, the couple’s spokesman, said today: “Kate and Gerry have nothing to hide at all. They are perfectly happy to answer any of this, if it comes to it. There are wholly innocent explanations for anything the police may or may not have found."
Mr Mitchell said the couple were unable to grieve for Madeleine because they did not know yet what had happened to their daughter. “They need that knowledge whether Madeleine is alive or dead - let’s face it, she might be,” he said. “They need to know, before they can move on, before they can deal with that.
“In the absence of that hard information, they are doing what they can to, one, clear their names of these dreadful smears and, two, to actually get on with the job of finding her. That is the message we want to go to police in Portugal - ‘find Madeleine’.”
The couple hope that the appointment of a new head of the investigation will refocus the inquiry on finding their daughter. Mr Rebelo was appointed last night after the demotion of the previous lead investigator, Gonçalo Amaral, who had claimed that British police were being manipulated by Madeleine’s parents.
Mr Rebelo made his career at the Central Directory for the Investigation of Drug Trafficking before being appointed one of four associate directors of the PJ. He was head of the Criminal Investigation department in Lisbon when it uncovered a notorious paedophile ring. The “Casa Pia” ring had been abusing boys at state-run children’s homes for decades before being uncovered in 2002. Those alleged to have been involved included senior politicians, a former ambassador, celebrities and wealthy businessmen.
Mr Rebelo was described by colleagues as “highly regarded internally, he has done some excellent work for the PJ, he is nice and a good communicator”. He is close to the PJ’s national director, Alípio Ribeiro.

366 comments:

1 – 200 of 366   Newer›   Newest»
bath theory said...

They all need locking up except for the ones who change their story and tell the truth. My bet is that will be the Paynes. There is no way that they will all stick to the story when they start to see serious charges flying around.(IMO)

mariana said...

Viv

Thank you for the post.
During the Panorama interview JT looked scared, not spontaneous.
It was as though she was forced on it. I was breaking my head as to the why or with what the McCann's are "holding" her.

BT
I hear they have very good relations with the Paynes.

viv said...

Hiya Bath

I do agree with you they should all be locked up if they persist in their lies. In such a situation the police can be pretty lenient to get the principal offenders which is why I believe it is likely, aside from Tanner and OB the others are probably being pretty helpful now.

Hiya Mariana

I thought that jt looked and sounded really unwell on Panorama her speech was very forced and deliberate, she kept shaking her head as she was telling lies which is a simple give away...she plainly did not agree with what she was being forced to say. To me she seemed depressed and probably on medication, most people would be in the circumstances!

Viv x

mariana said...

Viv

Also this fund is absolutely disgusting because everything was done under false pretences and there ought to be an investigation and the money returned to people.

docmac said...

Oh good, I see there is hardly anybody about. That gives me the chance to test my new avatar. It's an artist's impression of a relatively old photo of me, seemingly commissioned by ST. The original picture so used portrays me in a rather flattering light as it was taken when I still had some hair :-)). I have also lost another tooth since then, so I am most grateful for the chance to use this as my mugshot on the blogs.

I am not quite sure how to properly express my gratitude in an appropriately subservient way. The best I can do is to point out to my own mum that she could never have taken care of me the way that ST does. Thanks ST, I love you almost as much as I love Gerry and Kate.

Viv, are you sure Mum21 has not the one who worked on that tennis ball picture? She is very, very good at working on compressed jpeg files I hear. I've even seen a picture on her own site wherein she has conjured up an image that shows a dog levitating! Crikey I feel so dumb when I view her work ;-)

docmac said...

BTW Viv

This article is really going to annoy Poop and Stinks who appear to be the only stalwarts left on the pink side. Great stuff.

Nite x

mariana said...

Hi Doc

Love your new pic. Did you have a beard then?

docmac said...

Mariana hi

Apparently so. It's been a while so the memory is a bit foggy.

dolores said...

Hi all

Great post Viv, Iam anxious to see what the PJ's next step will be when the tapas 9 don't turn up on Thursday.

Doc :)))

mariana said...

Viv

The first picture you have just posted, K looking at G, speaks for itself.

docmac said...

Hello Dolores!

Geez I'm just off to bed. I can't manage Aussie time like Mariana :-) You have mail.

Goodnight to you and all. xxx

dolores said...

Doc
The picture is exactly how I imagined how a troll like ST would look like.

mariana said...

Goodnight Doc

viv said...

I see I created a new word there and as I know Poops has difficulty understanding this blog, thought I would post again in plain English that she can look up on the web when she does not understand. She is still using my little kiss at the end of posts, I know she loves me really and likes to emulate me, not too successfully though but her legal knowledge and language used does seem to have picked up somewhat, so there we are, see what a learning curve this blog is for you, Poophead.


Hiya Doc

I am delighted to see that Rosiepoophead is in a furious rage about Claudia posting that link that shows her disrupting the blog and raving at everyone, hence it closed down. As ever she is using some pretty extreme adjectives to describe me and this blog, that is excellant and absolutely thrills me.

She is also demanding that I ban Ecolab. Well Rosiepoophead I can only suggest you go forth and multiply and to Ecolab, I say thanks for yet another expert and professional opinion on this blog. I am blessed with the intellectuals here who can properly analyse and see things just the way they are, splending this gets Poops in such a rage:-)

viv said...

oh tut I have done it again.

Well, you see Poophead "splending" actually means "splendid". Is that easy enough for you?

Good x

viv said...

oh no Doc, I just saw your new avitar and cannot believe how ugly you are, in fact you are so ugly I PMSL X

dolores said...

Viv
It seems I have upset s/he also.
I feel better now that I am not left out. Loooool

viv said...

Hi Mariana

That evil look that Kate gives to Gerry on the first pic above, we have seen it before on other pics and she really is not so bright is she, because the camera never lies, even when you try so hard to make it, that was just a computer programme:-)

mariana said...

This is what Bridget O'Donnell said on her Guardian interview, thus confirming that G & M were earlier at the Tapas bar.

"Our baby would not sleep and at about 8.30pm, Jes took him out for a walk in the buggy to settle him. Gerry was on his way back from checking on his children and the two men stopped to have a chat. They talked about daughters, fathers, families."

viv said...

I meant a computer programme operated by a narcissist called Gerry McCann who has an unhealthy belief is his own ability to con and manipulate. Fortunately we do recognise that behaviour as exemplifying his personality disorder.

Oh Dolores darling upsetting Poophead has always been one of life's great pleasures x

mariana said...

Viv

I have read the psycopath link you have on the front page. It is so like G and M.

viv said...

Hiya thanks Mariana for that confirmation.

I do recall when I pointed that out on the DE several months back it got a very angry and defensive response from Poophead, thus I always knew when I was pressing the right buttons:-)

They most certainly arrived at the TAPAS at 8, nothing Gerry says is quite the truth and the more he says the more he conflicts with credible witnesses like O'Donnell and Jez Wilkins - they seem like a really nice couple to me, who love their kids and would not harm or neglect them and have given evidence against those who do not act like normal parents..

mariana said...

Viv

You are spot on. Let them be annoyed. Who cares?

Like O'Donnell said the previous evening they were dining at the bar and they left because one of the kids wouldn't stop crying.
On the 3rd they did not go at all.
How unlucky for GM.

On the previous post I meant to say G & K.

viv said...

Hiya Mariana

Yes, as Gerry said, it was normally so quiet and when he saw Wilkins that was the first time he had ever seen anyone around. What, not even any lurking predators? With this comment Gerry let's us know his angst and frustration that he bumped into the doting father Jez Wilkins because Gerry had some important staging work to do at that time and wanted to be messing with shutters, damaging them and jemmying the window. Silly man got so pissed her blurted that out on the phone to his friends and relatives and forgot that Jez Wilkins interrupted his little games. What a pissed up amateur!

viv said...

You know Mariana, I bet if we asked Claudia she would tell us that in May in Portugal at about 9.05 pm it is just getting nice and dark and so people cannot easily see what you are doing.

viv said...

CHIEF CONSTABLE SACKED FOR FAILING TO INVESTIGATE PERVERT JUDGE
This is really what is going on at the top of the UK's MASONIC cesspit of law and order.Utter perverts dictating our lives .

Chief constable sacked for failing to investigate pervert judge
Child abuse cover-up allegations over top policeman who quit

The chief constable who resigned amid allegations of financial wrongdoing and misuse of police equipment was also being investigated in connection with his force’s dismissal of child abuse claims against a judge, The Times can disclose. Terence Grange, who resigned from the Dyfed-Powys Police on Monday, had been accused by the judge’s ex-wife of allowing his professional relationship with the judge to influence the force’s treatment of the claims. He left his post days after the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) launched separate investigations into potentially criminal financial irregularities and alleged misuse of a work computer. Members of the Dyfed-Powys Police Authority had refused to offer him their continuing support.

The Times can reveal that in August the IPCC had ordered the police authority to investigate the links between Mr Grange and the judge accused of inappropriate behaviour towards children. It follows claims made by the judge’s ex-wife that the judge had given a child a sexually transmitted disease, viewed child pornography websites and misused transcripts from child abuse cases that he had presided over. Documents sent to the IPCC said the force had concluded that there was insufficent evidence to interview the judge and decided not to analyse his computer. The force then refused to accept a further complaint from the ex-wife that the relationship between the judge and officer, who had worked together on criminal justice issues, had biased its approach. But the IPCC ruled in August that this complaint should have been investigated. The judge, who cannot be identified, said previously: “It is not a subject I would wish to comment upon in any circumstances.”

Mr Grange, 58, did not respond to a request by The Times’s for his reaction to the bias claims. He has not spoken publicly about the IPCC investigation. The Dyfed-Powys Police Authority did not comment on whether this investigation into Mr Grange had been dropped, or whether the initial child abuse claims made against the judge would be reinvestigated. The IPCC is still investigating Mr Grange over potentially criminal alleged financial wrongdoings. It is now powerless to investigate the alleged misuse of a work computer because Mr Grange is no longer a serving officer.

On Tuesday the police authority revealed that Mr Grange had been accused of sending “private e-mails concerning a personal relationship”. The authority held an emergency meeting behind closed doors on Thursday to discuss Mr Grange’s retirement. It is under fire from critics who claim that the police chief has been “let off the hook” by being allowed to leave. Helen Mary Jones, Plaid Cymru AM for South Wales West, said yesterday that many serving officers felt that no other force member would have been allowed to walk away from such allegations. In response, the authority released a statement after Thursday’s meeting defending its actions.

It said: “The emergency committee considered that there were issues in front of them that raised questions about Mr Grange’s judgment and it was important to maintain confidence within the authority, force and our communities. It therefore decided that it was in the public interest that his offer to retire should be accepted with immediate effect.” Mr Grange was spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers on child protection issues and caused controversy last year when he asked whether it was appropriate for young men who had sex with 15-year-old girls to be described as paedophiles. He became Chief Constable of Dyfed-Powys Police in 2000, where he has presided over improvements in police performance and a reduction in crime. This year he was given a two-year extension to his contract.

When Mr Grange announced his retirement, Tony McNulty, the Home Office Minister, said that he should be congratulated for having “made a significant contribution to policing in Wales”. The IPCC said: “Once he left the police force we no longer had any power to investigate him for computer misuse. But the allegations of financial irregularities are different because, potentially, they could be criminal.” Mr Grange has been replaced by Acting Deputy Chief Constable Andy Edwards.

mariana said...

Hi Viv

Isn't that story appalling? This is beyond corruption. A Judge who controls people's lives, strays morally like him.

I have emailed you with something "interesting" about the church.

bath theory said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bath theory said...

Mariana

When all the fake church going stuff came on last year I remember my wife saying something like ... maybe he is so smug bcause he has cremated the body...

I think the only chance of finding the body or ashes lays with the friends. One of whom must certainly know. Can you imagine knowing that and not telling the police. This is where I am not sure how much their co-operation with the police has extended.

If you were liaising with PJ would you not tell all you know thus they would be aware of where the body/ashes were. This is the one little thing that niggles me. Maybe they are still being as tight as tight with each other but my instinct tells me that bond has broken in order to save one's skin.

We shall see

dolores said...

Reconstruction in Praia da Luz scheduled for Thursday Diario de Noticias



FILIPA AMBRÓSIO DE SOUSA

26/05/2008



Only three days but neither of the couple's defence team knows if there will be a reconstruction



The Judiciary Police (PJ) are dependant on witnesses coming to Portugal for the reconstruction of the night of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann to be done.



The proceeding, announced by PJ a few weeks ago, is already scheduled for this Thursday, according to what the DN found. But, apparently, it might not happen.



This is because the witnesses, the friends of the McCann couple that dined in the Tapas Bar on May 3, 2007, in Praia da Luz, may not be willing to travel to Portugal, as a year has passed over the events, according the spokesman of the McCann couple, Clarence Mitchell two days ago.


On the part of McCanns, the couple are already prepared to submit to the Portuguese authorities to carry out the proceedings, which, however, they admit to be "useless" as the lawyer of the couple McCann, Rogerio Alves, told DN.



"Basically, it is not up to Gerry or Kate because they are defendants. If their presence is required, they will have to go," assured the couple's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, a few days ago to the Lusa agency. "Everything depends on the friends, who were notified to be present but as they are not defendants they have the right to question the usefulness of the exercise and whether it will help to find Madeleine - and the answer now seems to be no," he said.



The lawyer Rogerio Alves said that the Portuguese defence of the McCanns, which the former president of the Bar shares with Carlos Pinto de Abreu, "ignores the evolution of notification made to the witnesses." This means that three days before the scheduled proceedings, the defence team of the couple do not know whether they will take place. "Given that there can be no reconstruction of the night without the witnesses, if they do not come, it will not proceed," the lawyer concluded.

nancy said...

Viv -

Extra brownie points today for a very comprehensive post! Not much more to add to it really, except to say that I remember the pub landlady in PdeL, I think her name was Nancy something, saying that it would be virtually impossible for an abductor to take a child without anyone seeing because it was such a small community and everyone knew what was going on and who was coming and going, and you could virtually not go for a piss without someone knowing!! (her words)!!

We all have our own theories on what actually happened I know, but the fact is the McCanns and their pals are the responsible ones and should be brought to justice!
The fact that the McCanns didn't even bother looking for their daughter that night certainly tells me that they didn't give two hoots about her, or that they knew she wouldn't be found anywhere locally! Yes, they got up next day and made a half hearted attempt, but if someone had taken her they had plenty of chance to be across the border by then. No,as has been said before, these two are hiding a terribly dark secret, and we the public are not as stupid as they may think to believe all the crap they come out with.

Nx

nancy said...

Viv -

I remember the case you are talking about - what a shaming indictment of what can happen in a so called civilised society!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, these Masonic Lodges may do good charitable work in the community, but it's a charade when it covers up murkier stuff that goes on with some of it's members who they will protect to the bitter end, at the cost of even small children's lives.

Shame on the lot of them and I hope that Mr Grange enjoys his retirement knowing he has put more childrens lives in danger with his failing to assist in the prosecution of the pervert Judge!! If his wife didn't know what was going on then who would - no wife would accuse their husband of something so foul if it wasn't true.

It really makes you feel completely helpless at the utter hypocrisy in the so called upper echelons of our society!!


Nx

leigh3 said...

Hi All,
Just flying past.
Viv: more excellent highlights from you, focused on the low-lifes who betrayed their children, and their professions.

Dolores of the pink rose: at last, Clarence sees admits reality, albeit a slip of the tongue, I suspect:-

"...Basically, it is not up to Gerry or Kate because they are DEFENDANTS*. If their presence is required, they will have to go," assured the couple's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, a few days ago to the Lusa agency. "Everything depends on the friends, who were notified to be present but as they are not DEFENDANTS* they have the right to question the usefulness of the exercise and whether it will help to find Madeleine - and the answer now seems to be no," he said."

Oops! Self-appointed Det.Chf.Insp. Mitchell has previously claimed that the McCanns are entirely innocent; they are 'arguidos', a status relentlessly downplayed as a temporary nuisance by the McCann Machine of media manipulators, led by Mitchell and Gerry McCann.

Now, Mitchell refers to them as 'defendants' if the translation is correct in the 'Diario de Noticias' article of 25th May 2008.

Defendants appear in court charged with criminal offences, and 'arguidos' enjoy a protected right to silence as suspects, not yet charged. Mitchell knows the distinction between these two terms.

So Clarence: have you been misquoted; are you preparing public opinion for imminent criminal charges against the McCanns or was the quote incompetence on your part?

Just wondering...

*capitals added by me for emphasis.

See you all soon. Enjoy the day.
xo
leigh

leigh3 said...

By the way, Dolores.
Our friend Ironside on the 3As might enjoy that article, and in particular, the use of the word 'defendants'. He'll see the significance quite quickly, and I pass it to you for him, as a boost to his spirits as he pursues truth.

Don Ironside: justica para Madeleine y todos ninos. xo leigh

See you soon, D. Gotta go.
Luv,L

ratonthebeam said...

Hi folks, sorry this took a couple of days to find, as it was on a laptop I rarely use.

More than 1 cuddlecat!

dolores said...

Leigh
I have never posted on the 3 A's but I am sure he will see it though.CM has a habit of putting his pink foot in his mouth.

Luv D

leigh3 said...

Thanks, Dolores x

RATONTHEBEAM: brilliant find. Thank you. A picture paints a thousand words...and this one shouts one word: liar.

See you soon. Really must go.

leigh3 said...

...because there are lies of commission, and lies of ommission, as the McCann Machine of media manipulators know very well. They're masters of it.

Whoosh! Going, going, gone ;-)))

nancy said...

Bath Theory -

It looks like the tapas 7 are not going to return to PdeL for the reconstruction, probably due to the fact they are worried about being letting details slip that will incriminate themselves and the McCanns, and they probably fear arrest because they left their children indoors too while out wining and dining so are guilty of child neglect. The fact that none of their children went missing doesn't minimise the guilt of what they failed to do, and that is look after their children!

I can't see the tapas 7 splitting on the McCanns until they feel their own necks are in the noose. If you remember Oldfield said when questioned that he wouldn't say anything because it was their business only and no-one had a right to question them!! They are probably all tied up with these Masonic Lodges and are vowed to silence even when it involves a small child missing for over a year, and probably dead.

In the fullness of time though, I'm sure one of them will break the silence and all will be revealed.

nancy said...

What I don't really understand about this whole thing is why the PJ's didn't arrest and charge all the tapas pals who had left their children alone that week.

I know in the McCanns case they wanted to find out more about Madeleine's disappearance and possibly come up with a more serious charge, but the tapas parents who were equally lax in looking after their kids should not have been allowed to go back to the UK in my opinion.

mariana said...

Hi all

ROB

I had never seen this pic before.
Good on you. Thank you.

Leigh

They will soon be the "accused".

mariana said...

Hi Nancy

None of them should have been allowed to "walk" so to speak. There is still time to make the rest of them arguidos and oblige them to return to Portugal.

nancy said...

Mariana -

It could very well be that the PJ's have that in mind if they refuse to co-operate and I don't blame them! I think the problem was the PJ's didn't have time to issue any arrest warrants because it was almost at the end of their holiday when the neglect was discovered and the tapas 7 hightailed it out of there, as did the McCanns when they knew the game was up!

nancy said...

Hi Rat -

More than one cuddle cat!!

Which one did they give to the PJ's I wonder then - perhaps there were three!! It was obviously the overwashed one handed over!

mariana said...

Nancy

So if the Tapas 7 don't show up they will be made arguidos regardless of the PJ holiday?

I mean this case can't wait for anyone's holidays. The McCann machine is sure to take advantage of this delay.

viv said...

Hi All

Re Cuddlecat: The PJ and British Police went into the McCanns hired villa with the sniffer dogs I believe on 3 August when the McCanns were in Huelva. The dogs marked Kate's jeans and top together with cuddlecat as having corpse scent on them. This means that Kate must have left cuddlecat behind and it makes no difference really if Amelie had one too other than that may have been the one she decided to sniff and cuddle whenever she saw a press camera. We have seen a picture of Amelie carrying it, not Kate and this would tend to bear this out. But after the police found the death scent on the cuddlecat in their apartment she did wash it and was interrogated about why she would do this. She said because it was dirty, had suntan lotion on it. Given the evidence the police had she did not even bother to take it with her, together with the fact no mum would want to get it dirty/wash it, one can imagine why this explanation is just not accepted.

Re: Why did they not charge the rest of the TAPAS with neglect. This would have comprehensively destroyed a much more serious investigation. We have seen Mr Ribeiro's comments...it may have been better to just carry on investigating the McCanns without making them arguidos. The reason for this is simple. As witnesses they cannot refuse to answer police questions. The same applies to the TAPAS. If they had been charged with neglect they would then have been entitled to exercise their right to remain silent and the investigation of a much more serious set of facts which they themselves were implicated in would have been completely prevented.

I think it is for this reason the TAPAS have not, as yet, been made arguidos, but I think it is likely that Tanner and OB, in particular will be at the end of the process. If they can prove that Payne is lyeing by saying he saw Madeleine alive at 6.30 (or was it 7) he could also be charged but I doubt if they will be able to prove that.

nancy said...

Viv -

Thanks for the explanation and it does of course make a lot of sense!! I just hope the PJ's have got something up their sleeves so this lot of child neglecters face up to what they've done; they opened a hornets nest of copycat cases with their actions and they should pay for that. And I wonder how long it will be before their tapas pals decide to sell 'their stories' to the media for twenty pieces of silver! Would anyone believe them though?

As you say, how could any mother who had just lost a daughter ever think to wash their favourite toy! Only one in a million and K is that one! These two have acted in exactly the opposite way that the majority normal parents would. I don't care if they were told to be emotionless in front of cameras, which I very much doubt, but you would have to be a robot to folow those instructions after losing a child, of whatever age!

I see that the are asking JK Rowling to include bookmarks featuring Madeleine's picture in the 7th and last instalment set to go on sale soon. Are they going to pay her for doing this, or perhaps give money to a children's charity instead - I won't hold my breath!!

They really are milking their story for all they can - such grieving parents!!

Justice for Madeleine!


Nx

nancy said...

I'm off for the evening now, but I'll look in later on to read all the interesting posts!


Nancy x

leigh3 said...

Hiya Viv, and Mariana if you're still here. (Bye Nancy. Enjoy your evening).

While my lovely daughter makes her world class spaghetti carabonara (!)...

Mariana: I agree. They will be the 'accused'.

Viv: as always, you give such a clear , succinct legal opinion. Investigating other, more serious matters had to take precedence over the issue of self-confessed neglect, although they try to diminish this by claiming it was 'within the bounds of responsible parenting'; that defence counsel argument infuriates child welfare organisations, and sympathisers; it undermines decades of hard work to raise awareness about parental responsibility.

Anyhoooo! Other matters: I think your montage above of the smiling faces, ROTBs pic of twin cuddle cat's, and many more photos could be contrasted neatly with all the 'contradictions', 'inconsistencies', and downright lies we have heard so far in this story, ie:-

A clever Picture Editor may one day run a feature page, headlined: 'The camera never lies.'

The page will show pictures like your's and ROTBs, with caption quotes beneath, e.g. cuddle cat was Madeleine's special toy, unique; or for your pic: the 'grieving parents', Summer 2007; or the Brussels trip: pick your own caption :-)

You get the idea. I believe that the McCanns have incriminated themselves by their own words, and actions, in the eyes of their first chosen court: the court of public opinion.

The criminal court they seek to evade awaits ...

Ahhhh. Daughter serving up. See you next time.
xo
leigh

Ecolab said...

Hi All

Regarding the reconstruction:

Has anyone of you ever been on "a hunting" ??

Well, we start with
Plan A : Send in the dog. (A fox has multiple excits) so the dog might fail or suffercate in the narrow cave.

Plan B: Smoke the fox out!

Plan C: Shoot the fox, when it turns up from the cave.

Thats it....and there is a plan for the whole alpfabet!


IF plan A fails, look foreward to plan B.



Another thing:
I wonder, why everybody turns up all the time in others appartments and why they did`nt rent a bungalow? Did they change partner every day - twosome - threesome - gangbang - were they swingers as said? "Smoke without a fire"?


Why does Rosipupolos want me banned? Because of my bad spelling or because of my blue eyes?

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

Thanks for the quote of Clarence Mitchell form Diario Noticias below.

I think the explanation of this is Clarence is now aware of the legal situation, i.e. the PJ can order the McCanns to return, given their arguido status. He is subtly trying to pass the buck from the McCanns refusing to go which they clearly were, themselves questioning the usefulness of such a procedure and claiming Kate was too fragile, to intead blaming the rest of the TAPAS group saying it is them who are questioning the usefulness of the procedure. The reality is they also fear charges and know their situation as witnesses could so quickly change when they further incriminate themselves as they undoubtedly would by being faced with what other witnesses say who are only too happy to take part in a reconstruction. I would query whether this is right in law, but no doubt they have all had legal advice, because in UK law, if witnesses refused to co-operate with the police in such a serious criminal case, they could and would be charged with obstruction of the police/perverting the course of justice.

It may be a slip of the tongue on Clarence's part to describe them as defendants or it may be deliberate. The fact is at this stage they have not been charged and are therefore not defendants. He may well be preparing the ground given it is now an all on certainty that the McCanns, at the very least, are going to be charged and will then be defendants. Their situation is not much below defendants anyway, given they are maintained as prime suspects after several months, this clearly speaks for itself, the police know they are guilty and will be charging them. The Pink One should maybe just shut his mouth because we can work out for ourselves the McCanns will be charged and he is not helping them by simply saying well we are seeking to stymy the reconstruction because the friends are scared witless, of what precisely? It is too late to charge them with simple child neglect..but certainly not too late to charge them with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, assisting an offender, disposing of a body etc.

"...Basically, it is not up to Gerry or Kate because they are DEFENDANTS*. If their presence is required, they will have to go," assured the couple's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, a few days ago to the Lusa agency. "Everything depends on the friends, who were notified to be present but as they are not DEFENDANTS* they have the right to question the usefulness of the exercise and whether it will help to find Madeleine - and the answer now seems to be no," he said."

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

I agree Gerry's suggestion that they acted within the realms of responsible parenting is absurd and is merely a legalistic phrase to try and defend the behaviour. If this were accepted as responsible parenting what a terrible example to set to less educated folk? There are two issues going on here really, the one, the McCanns must be brought to justice and what they did was far worse than simple child neglect. The second, the example this group of doctors set and the attempt by the McCanns /their lawyers etc to defend this stance to avoid legal consequences. It is essential to highlight the reason they do this, as you and many others do, it is not an acceptable reason and it is certainly not acting to protect other children from such behaviour by British parents who, quite frankly, have the most appalling record for child abuse and neglect. Hence we see it, even from a group of doctors, who frankly should know better. At least the remainder of the group have not attempted to suggest, so far as I know, that what they did was right. Baby monitors used by the Paynes, would such a device have even been in range? They had a baby and it was still the most terrible neglect. Young children near to be in direct earshot of their parents or other responsible carers, 24/7, so that when they start vomiting or crying or whatever, help is IMMEDIATELY at hand. Sitting getting drunk in a large group, even if within range would they have heard and how good was their sprinting?

viv said...

Hiya Ecolab

I think the analogy of the fox is good, eventually no matter how wily he is, by one means or another he is trapped and killed, although as an abolutely devoted wildlife lover, I abhor that!

The trolls permeated this blog and repeatedly threatened me with libel actions, which legally was obviously a complete joke and just shows their incredible ignorance. Now they try other tactics but they again involve telling me what I ought to do, silly things do not seem to get the message do they, why on earth would I do anything at all that they tell me to do? Being singled out by them is a badge of honour because it means you are an extremely astute poster who can see right through the McCanns. Do they really think their 13 year old school bully tactics make the slightest difference to educated people? Of course not!

Personally, I am not satisfied that this group were into swinging because I have seen no real evidence to persuade me of that but everyone is entitled to their opinion. If they were into this then a big private villa would have been the obvious choice and I really wish they had done that because they could have also had a maid, watching the children whilst they did just what the heck they liked!

leigh3 said...

Ecolab! ;-)

Maybe 'it' wants you banned for your clear vision, and willingness to address the issues, without fear or favour.
Plan A, B, C, D ... 'd' for defeated plans involving denial, diversion, distraction, dillusion, and finally, 'd' for the death of Madeleine Beth McCann, and the life of democracy which seeks to protect her with our laws, our right to free expression, and honest inquiry.

Finally, in alphabetical order ;-), 'f' for failure to accomplish Plans A, B and C.

Just wondering...

leigh3 said...

Oops!!! Delusion is the correct spelling. Tummy too full of spaghetti to spell right. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it ;-)

bath theory said...

Hi Viv

More worrying for general society is how far you can go with nothing more than bluster and words if the right people are nodding their heads. We all know this but it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth when we witness it as we have done in this case.

Secondly, the general public have witnessed how much money can be made from a high profile media case. This has led directly (IMO) to the case of the young girl being abducted and found in the north of England recently and the couple who were found in the sea in the last few days have apparently banked £500,000 pounds already from spending a night in the ocean (or maybe on daddy's yacht for most of it !!)
Also, the need for stories by global media companies such as Sky feeds all of this nonsense.

The sooner people see these two cannot get away with this charade the better for society in general.

leigh3 said...

And another thing!

While I'm fuelled with pasta, and have the time to post early.

I see from earlier posts that Madame R has moved on from vilifying Viv, and now sets upon Chinadoll.

Tsk (that one's for you ST).

It seems to me that Chinadoll is exercising her right to 'free association' in our democracy. She is trying to set up a friendly community among McCann supporters who have given their loyalty unstintingly, and now simply wish to express other common interests among themselves.

Unfortunately, the dominatrix Madame R demands absolute obedience ; even declining the hand of friendship offered by Chinadoll.

Shocking behaviour. I hope Chinadoll perseveres for the sake of free speech, and democratic rights, even on the world weird web.

If worst comes to worst, Chinadoll's site, and her friends, may provide some solace to Kate in a calm, and reasoned environment, without the venom from Madame R which must surely upset any vulnerable person, including Kate.

If Kate is upset reading blogs, perhaps she should ignore most of them, and find good company, and 'time out', with the women on Chinadoll's site.

Maybe that is what Madame R dislikes. I don't know. R and ST are weird.

viv said...

Hiya Bath

You do make a very good point about the sickening, money grabbing media campaign by the McCanns. For me this has always seriously compounded their criminal culpability and certainly made me consider whether they actually murdered Madeleine for profit, if not, it does say a lot about their personality (disorder) in seeking to cash in, in such a sickening way.

Again, as you say, this is setting the most terrible example to others and the world is full of criminals looking to make a huge amount of money by some criminal scam. There is a case for saying the media should behave more responsibly and simply not allow people to profit in this way. They do feed fraudsters. I have highlighted the case of Shannon and I am quite certain the McCanns motivated this serious crime, particularly given they were actually contacting the McCanns asking for cash when their own fund, lacking the slick media campaign was not exactly gathering pace. In short they lacked the intelligence to be as devious and manipulative as the McCanns and were quickly banged up. Maybe the McCanns will even spawn new laws that say, when you are a serious criminal suspect under investigation, you are not allowed to use the media!

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

I am sure "Chinadoll" did want a more sympathetic and pleasant place to go, than anything the aggressive control freak Rosiepops/Supertroll etc could offer.

It has always been terribly important to Kate to gain public sympathy and she has used her mother to try and engender this but unfortunately focussed on her physical attributes, probably because the emotional ones are so lacking. So that did not really help at all. She is no Princess Di physically or emotiionally and needs to be clear about that I think and stop deluding herself. Being a good mum has nothing to do with breast size!

leigh3 said...

Bath Theory.
Well said.

The following small report from The Times of London recently may interest you:
'PRESS COMPLAINTS RISE'
'A record 4,340 complaints were made to the Press Complaints Commission last year, although the watchdog said this was due to greater public awareness of its work rather than a decline in standards.For the first time, the majority of complaints followed articles as they appeared online rather than in print.'

I know Wizard did his best on the Daily Express to raise people's awareness of their right to complain to the PCC following certain objectionable comments by McCann sympathisers, and the DEs total, unprecedented capitulation in issuing a front page apology for 'libel'; acquitting the McCanns - all before any libel case was heard or the police inquiry was concluded.

BTW: the PCC is a self-regulatory body of the UK Press. It is Editors sitting in judgment on Editors.

Recently, the Daily Express Editor resigned from the PCC.

Just thought you would be interested.

Slowly, slowly catch ALL monkeys ;-)

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

I was just reading your 17.43 post. Do you think Clarence’s statement is a plan hatched to scupper the PJ’s attempt at a re-enactment. I remember reading for this reconstruction to go ahead all of the T9 have to be present. If the McCanns refuse to go no amount of spin will make their behaviour acceptable, however, if they now say they will go, but most if not all of the T7 say they won’t, then the reconstruction cannot go ahead and the Teflon pair come out of this smelling of roses. It’s a good move by the pink one to ensure the McCanns do not have to return to Portugal and as you rightly point out, dumping the blame in the laps on the T7.

Perverting the course of justice, assisting an offender, disposing of a body are possibly on the cards for the T7 but I’m not sure this is what this all about at this time, imo its about saving the Teflon duo at all costs. This poses the question what have the mc's got on the T7 that is so terrible they are able to control them, surely this has gone beyond just friendship?

leigh3 said...

Good Evening,

Ever seen a rabbit caught in headlights? Which way to run? Left or right? Aaargh. Can't decide. Stay still, and hope for the best (that the lethal object hurtling forward swerves, and leaves the rabbit alive).

That sums up the T7 for me. Just the rabbit, they are being mown down because the driver of the car/the controller has his eyes set on his own destination, not theirs.

Little by little, these bunnies have been drawn into a major intrigue. 'This is our business...no one else's,' said one. We decided Gerry would deal with this, to paraphrase another.

Anyhooo. I think that some of the bunnies have decided to leap out of the way, despite their fear, and primitive dislike of conflict.

Just my opinion.

dolores said...

Viv /Leigh /Ecolab,

Guess what, I am creep of the week on the ST (sight)
for apparently agreeing with Ecolab.
If only it could read properly.It reminds me of RP on DX who was forever being accused by all for this.Now I am convinced who ST is.

Don't you all think it's fortunate they have us and this blog,otherwise they would nothing of any consequence to discuss as we are the the ongoing topic.

hope4truth said...

Hi All

Do you know I never thought I would feel sorry for CD but I did the other night when I read the link to their blog.

We all chat about lots of things here as well as the case and they obviously wanted to chat to each other on a diffrent site away from the sadness of Madeleine.

Oh well Viv at least you are a fair person and dont kick off when others set up a blog as you know it is not a competition.

I guess their problem is they are defending something that cant really be defended leaving children is not something you should ever do and I see the McCann's behaving in an alien way to how other people have behaved in the same tragic circumstance. They see them as the victim and Madeleine is lost in it all.

If she was taken my opinion of the McCanns will not change very much the pictures of sheer joy days after she went missing and the idea of a concert to mark the year anniversary a few weeks after she went missing, Find the body prove we killed her are not normal. Madeleine will still be missing thanks in part to their gross neglagence.

If it is proved that Kate and Gerry were involved with her death then what have the pros been doing for the last year defending them? Also defending convicted child killers and trying to condem the PJ and Portugal everyone else is to blame bar the parents.

As I said my view wont change Madeleine is the victim she should not have been left (none of the children should have been left alone) I am sure Madeleine is no longer with us once her eye was made into a marketing ploy she did not stand a chance.

No one has claimed the reaward and it is never mentioned by the McCann's and that is a hell of a lot of money and criminals are not loyal where money is involved.

Very strange x

leigh3 said...

Hello, dear Dolores of the pink rose.

Mentioned in despatches from the front line, eh? My, my, my. It took them a long time to recognise your quiet, determined ways ;-)

I doubt whether they recognise the significance in much of what you have posted since DE days.

Out of their league.
xo
Luv,L

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

I think the situation is that they all have legal advice, they all know how desperate their position is and they all seek to avoid the reconstruction. Whilst we have seen this impasse in the press as to whether or not they go it is undoubtedly the case that there have been very intense legal discussions going on between the advisors of the friends/K&G and the Portuguese prosecutor. I think it is quite likely the friends lawyers have sought an assurance that if they return and take part they can have immunity from prosecution. I also think the Portuguese prosecutor would have roundly refused such a request in the same way the McCanns suggestion they would only go back for the reconstruction if their arguido status was removed got roundly refused. In a legal case there is always a lot of posturing between the two sides as they valiantly struggle to have their own side accepted and believed. The posturing from Kate and Gerry has been that Madeleine was abducted and that therefore a crimewatch style reconstruction using actors could generate more leads to find the abductor. Their suggestion they return having their status as suspects removed was in furtherance of this. But the Portuguese prosecutor stands firm, that is not the purpose of the reconstruction, its purpose is to further the criminal investigation of the McCanns and their friends by confronting them with the reality of what other witnesses say, and there are lots of them. BY the friends refusing to co-operate they clearly implicate themselves and tacity accept they do not want to further incriminate themselves or provide further evidence against Kate and Gerry. I think the PJ have seriously played them because they say they are innocent and have done nothing wrong, they say they will always co-operate and return to help the police but now refuse to do so. Any court will obviously draw appropriate inferences from this. Many other witnesses are clearly saying they are lieing because they give an account of what really happened. The McCanns and their friends have the chance to challenge that evidence but do not wish to do so..this is how inferences are drawn. If you do not wish to challenge when you are given a clear opportunity to do so then the other witnesses must be speaking the truth, and I would stress again, there are lots of them!

dolores said...

Hope 4 Truth,

This what losing Madeleine, felt like to this piece of scum.
Money money money, first and foremost in his mind.


From Vanity Fair

GMcC: Certainly, you know, at the end of that first week there was so much emotion that we had spent and we actually had a period where we discussed this openly that we felt devoid, completely devoid of emotion.
The analogy that I like to use is a bit like when we were students and you’d got to your overdraft limit and you’d gone beyond it and there was just nothing left in the tank. Also, I think, physically and mentally were shattered but, you know, as we gradually got more on an even keel and we started to get back into the black and we’d also worked tirelessly behind the scenes to put support mechanisms in place including our legal team. The response with the fund which was really driven by offers rather than us thinking we needed it. And once these were in place then it helped us to focus on what we really needed to focus on.

leigh3 said...

Hope4truth,

It is a sad, cynical fact of life for investigators that if you follow the money, you find truth.

Who receives the money. Who spends the money. What do they spend the money on.

Do you remember doctordoom, the journalist from DE days, and his warnings about the manipulation of the fund?

Do you remember what I wrote about the Fund, a private limited company putting 'financial' support for the family above any giving to other missing children or charity?

Rosiepops went ballistic at him for daring to reveal what he knew.

She was a little more cautious with me. Until I finally flounced off in a fit of indignation at the treatment of a poster named 'Honey1', I had previously defended Rosiepops' right to defend the McCanns in our democracy. However, I insisted on pointing out that the Fund was NOT a charity, despite R's sly words suggesting it 'was like a charity'. It isn't. The UK Charity Commissioners are unhappy about any suggestion that it is.

To be fair, R and I did have one other major falling out, and DaveL had to be restrained by moderators because I said 'Madame Rosiepops', leading the House of Ill Repute, and her girl gang should get up off their knees, stop lying down for their client, Gerry McCann, and instead focus on justice for Madeleine.

Phew!!! Nostalgia is tiring ;-)))

hope4truth said...

Bloody Hell Dolores

I have never read that before it is shocking!!!!

Why have the press not picked up on this or VF had a follow up article on it discusting I am really shocked by that and as the press have had to ask and say what they have been told to there is not even the excuse that they have been mis represented...

Thanks for that xxx

hope4truth said...

Leigh

I thought Doctor Doom was brilliant (in fact Ironside mentioned the journalist the other day and I had to look up a list of comic book stars as I could not remember his name) I also remeber the it is not a charity (BigL used to say that often as well) and how upset they would get about it.

The article Dolores just shared was discusting why is there anyone left defending them including their familys????

Money money money !!!!!!!!

xxx

Cláudia said...

Hello, guys!
Just checked my e-mail and I had some delightul samples of Rosiepoophead's rants due to the links I posted and for copy pasting the comments which make it crystal clear hw well the snakes get along with each other. And I loved it all. I don't know what I loved the most: the link that fantastic anon posted on my blog or Rosiepoophead's rants (the reaction to the posting of the link). Anyway, life is always better when you manage to piss off convicted child killers defenders.
ANON: I thank you form the bottom of my heart, even though I suspect you are a pro. Or should I say an ex pro? :-)

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

I think that Rosiepops/Supertroll is now so utterly furious she has even given up any pretence of trying to suggest this is two different people. The latest post on Supertroll's blog screams at people in red ink with bullet points and the telltale writing style, all absolutely identical to her raving posts on their justice4mccannfam blog. This is what she does, opens a number of blogs all desperately trying to ram her message home, screaming at people in furious red ink, what she does in reality, including with her virtually empty "forum" with about one post per day, is show herself up for what she is. An aggressive bully and a laughing stock.

Wizard said...

Thanks for the full reply Viv, I think all of the T9’s lawyers would advise them not to return to Portugal for the enactment as their time lines are so contradictory as to be incriminating. Plus other witnesses will not doubt contradict their alleged movements on the night of 3 May. A reconstruction would incriminate them imo. As the McCanns are arguidos if their lawyers say an enactment would be incriminating, then whether the pj tell them to go or not is irrelevant surely they cannot and would not participate in this event. (This is similar to the right not to answer a question by the pj if it is incriminating.) The rest of the T7 are at this point in time only witnesses I wonder what force can be used to get them to return to Portugal for the reconstruction if they do not wish to go. This behaviour all looks very fishy and the actions of guilty parties if they do not go, but alternatively they incriminate themselves which is far worse.

viv said...

Claudia Hun would you do me a favour, post the whole page from Driftwood and Diamonds on here, for people to read, and simply because it annoys Poop so much to be so completely raw, exposed and undone for the sickening bully she is who cannot even get on with people she is supposedly supporting.

Luv ya hunx

dolores said...

Hope
I remember my very first post last September on DE
was about the wording of the fund,I went into great detail about this and what it implied including family members being paid directors.
RP came at me like a vampire going for the throat,warning me in a threatening manner "to be very careful" I was stunned by such vitriolic behaviour.
And dear Leigh always ready to protect many people who were treated with such outrageous rants.

Viv might not remember but she was the first to come down on RP for her appaling venom

leigh3 said...

Hopefortruth,

Your name may yet come true in this cynical old world.

One problem: everyone is constrained by the rules, laws and accepted practices of their profession, occupation, vocation or trade.

This is what it is.

The Vanity Fair article was a shocker. Please don't think it went unnoticed by those who write for a living, defend free speech, despise subterfuge, and bide their time, waiting for the right time to expose 'the lie behind the truth', as our oldest ally Portugal insists. They are not alone. They never were.

Silence serves justice, sometimes. Our Portuguese allies will be a living example of that, I think. Other nations talk about this principle. The Portuguese are living it, demonstrating it, and they will survive the temporary discomfort of suffering for their beliefs, their ideal of justice.

Just my opinion. BTW: Big_L and Ironside were 2 of my favourites, and I was delighted to see another one - dadto3 - leave comments on Claudia's excellent tribute site for the PJ. Doctor_Val did too; another truth seeker, remembered fondly by all of us, no doubt.

viv said...

HIya Dolores

I do not recall the incident going back to last September but did not start posting on the DE until October but was immediately targeted by Poophead in a similar highly aggressive way as you describe. It does take you completely by surprise that when you simply point out the truth it is met with such vitriolic hatred.

I think it was about early November when Ironside posted a lengthy post in support of me and complaining about the horrible attacks against me on there particuarly by Rosiepops, Christabel and Maureen 7. In fact I think she as just talking to herself! It is noteworthy that criminal people with serious personality disorder are extremely good at accusing others of precisely what they do themselves i.e. using multiple identities! Poops continues to rave that this is what we do but she just gives herself away by someone always just happening to be there at the same precise moment to agree with her. In fact sometimes on the DE it used to really make me laugh, Maureen7 or HelenM would always predictably just appear whenever the going got tough for Rosie and me, Claudia and all of you were certainly making it tough for her to defend a couple of child abusers x

hope4truth said...

Dolores & Leigh

I did not post on the DX when Viv did (and did not see RP for a while) I think I joined late October early November when I did read RP I remember thinking oh thats her then...

I remeber she would go balistic with anyone who mentioned that the fund was not a charity (surely the books will be available to view soon damn I cant remeber the site I use to check if people can pay me before I let them have an account) but when you look at a company on there it tells you the highest paid director etc etc...

Big_L was lovely and you could hear his Scottish accent in his posts LOL xxx

dolores said...

Viv
You are right it was October I joined there.
I never in my life witnessed or heard such hatred,it takes you by surprise at first.And quite unnecessary. I always felt she had to be related, as it seemed so odd to be so defensive for people you don't know from Adam.
Especially when Madeleine was the victim of their neglect.

XX D

viv said...

Do people remember how obsessed Christabile was with paedophilia, that used to really worry me and make me feel she was in some way involved with such conduct, or even a victim herself perhaps. Again, I think this is the same person and the vitriolic hatred she expressed towards paedophiles when there was no evidence this is what the case was about spoke volumes really. Supetroll/Assassin have both written about being victims of childhood abuse, I wonder if this is the nub of all this vitriolic hatred and all her bizarre conspiracy theories e.g. it was a paedo PJ who took Maddie etc, links to other cases, this comes out the head of someone with serious psychosis. Serious childhood abuse can make people psychotic, maybe we should be pitying her really?

Cláudia said...

Viv, darling, do you want to post the link, do you want me to copy paste the comments (where it starts to get hot) or the whole damn thing (because it's so boring that your poster would all fall asleep!)? :-)

viv said...

Back later, Luke just told me one of my favourite telly progs is on SPRING WATCH!

Viv x

leigh3 said...

Dolores of the pink rose,

Thank you. Sweet of you to remember.

On the DE, I thought it was more important for comments to address the point, not the poster; address the issue, not the interpretation.

You did that, but unlike many readers and online newcomers scared off by vitriol, you persevered...with points, issues, and information...until finally, there were moments when you were hurt, and there was nothing anyone could do to protect you from hurt.
Editors think online is a new way to reach out to readers. Editors need to take greater responsibility for their websites, and protect their genuine readers and posters, in my opinion. We'll see. It's evolution, not revolution.

You are here, so all is well, I guess. All due credit to your strong heart, and honest inquiry.
Luv,L

viv said...

Hiya Claudia where it starts to get hot and showing RP deleting her own posts!

Viv x

Cláudia said...

Ok, hun. In a minute! :-)

leigh3 said...

Hopefortruth and Dolores,
I doubt whether any Editor realised that online would be opening Pandora's box; venom would spew out.

IMHO, most people are decent, hard working, kind souls.

I've never seen anything like Rosiepops, ST or the McCann Machine of media manipulators. Never seen anything like it. Shocking.

Shortly after I first took a close look at the DE forum, I saw a one-off post by a young woman who said she expressed the views of her office, but they would not post again because they were afraid of the name Rosiepops.

You, see? People aren't cowards, I think. They will express their views in the little extra time they have in this busy, noisy world, but they will live to fight another day by avoiding extremists.

Thankfully, some of us write anyway, regardless of extremists...and I include you in that, Chinadoll. Get a grip ;-) Go on. You can do it.

mariana said...

Hello everyone

Viv

On 24th of April Rachael Oldfield gave an interview to BBC Radio 4 and said the following:

"If you take the common sense approach and look at timings and the fact they are medics and there are four other medics in the group, they would know what to do to resuscitate a child."

"Anyone with an ounce of common sense would be able to see they couldn't have done it. And I was there and I know they didn't do it."

"We were made to understand we could face two years prison for speaking out. There have been these rumours and leaks from sources close to the PJ which we haven't been able to refute.

"We'd have loved to have spoken out and just put the record straight."

hope4truth said...

Leigh

When did the DX start then? I imagined it had been on going for ages when I joined but if Viv had only joined in October there must have been a lot said in a short space of time I am sure she was banned before I joined (she was like a ledgend on there everyone was talking about her) LOL xxx

Cláudia said...

Viv, darling, especially for you! :-)

----------------------------------

Rosiepops said...
This post has been removed by the author.
24 April 2008 22:49
chinadoll said...
Sod it, I've lost the link for ST's site and I had it in my favourites.

Can anyone help me out?

24 April 2008 22:50
SeaWitch said...
Rosie,

What has happened?

I honestly didn't mean to offend you, and I am mortified to think that this is the case.

If you remember, I did ask a couple of weeks ago if anyone was interested in starting up a chatting blog.

I will come over to your blog to try to sort this out.

24 April 2008 22:53
Mum21 said...
Rosie.

Your comment will remain. This blog is nothing to do with the subject you discuss. In fact it is never mentioned on here.

This is a gathering of ladies out to enjoy themselves. Nothing more...nothing less.

24 April 2008 22:54
chinadoll said...
Rosiepops,

Pull yourself together and stop taking everything so god damned personally.

We are here as individuals who wish to be in the company of others. The emails I sent out today, were received by me via legitimate means and no restrictions were made on them.

As for deleting you, each and everyone of us could do so, unlike on your blog, where many have felt abused by lack of moderation.

I told you earlier, that I would respond to you tomorrow. You are now coming over as bitter and that is not healthy in any sense of the word.

The invitation I extended to you and others was a genuine attempt at reaching out and trying to bridge what has gone before.

24 April 2008 22:57
chinadoll said...
Oh and Rosiepops,

We all have stress and problems in our lives, as you very well know.

Don't come here to take yours out on us.

It would be lovely to chat and ask how things are, but, clearly you chose to bite the hand that is offered in friendship. I am very disappointed

24 April 2008 22:59
chinadoll said...
Ladies,

We will not be distracted as we have had to be on a previous blog.

I truly am shocked.

Seawitch, did you take advantage of my brief absence?

Mum21 did you stick up for me?

24 April 2008 23:00
Mum21 said...
China,

Of course I would stick up for you...but I did not get the chance.
It was like a flash of lightening.....whoshhhhhhhhh and gone.

24 April 2008 23:03
chinadoll said...
Tulip,

The only anagram I could see for Tulip, was 'Lit up' and you certainly are that - especially on the economy lol

24 April 2008 23:03
Tulip said...
Sorry folks, what happened?

Trailing behind as usual.

Does Rosie think this is a rival blog? But this has nothing to do with hers, which I still visit all the time and greatly respect. I just don't want to get involved in the attacks from outside. Why can't we all be on one friendly blog that has nothing to do with the MC topic. Or have I once again missed something? Seems to be my speciality.

24 April 2008 23:04
SeaWitch said...
China,

Yes, I did! hahah! Turn your back and that's what'll happen. Especially when you INVITE us to insult you....!

24 April 2008 23:05
SeaWitch said...
Tulip,

I am as mystified as you, but hopefully we can sort it out.

24 April 2008 23:06
chinadoll said...
You all know that if I have something to say, I will say it. I and we, are ladies with 'attitude'

Stress and worry (especially on a personal level) are very strong emotions and I truly hope that Rosiepops will reconsider her views, when she has not got so much on her plate.

I mean that Rosiepops.

24 April 2008 23:07
chinadoll said...
I will email you all tomorrow with the invitation I sent to our long standing absent friends on the pro blog.

I will not repeat it openly here.

Even Seawitch did not know - she was copied in after the event.

24 April 2008 23:09
Mum21 said...
Seawitch. I doubt very much that we can. It seems we are not allowed to have a blog of our own even when it is not in competition with anyone else.
It goes deeper than what was said....I can see that without a shadow of doubt.

24 April 2008 23:10
chinadoll said...
Can anyone lend me a monkey lol?

24 April 2008 23:14
Tulip said...
I think I'm getting the picture now -- I stopped blogging re the other topic because I was worried about becoming obsessed ... and depressed.

If Rosie and the others got an invite to join us, what is wrong with that? Surely one can blog on more than one site? Especially as they are quite different.

I think Vile can very easily get to one.

I feel upset, I really do, as I like Rosie so much.

24 April 2008 23:14
Rosiepops said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
24 April 2008 23:16
chinadoll said...
Rosiepops,

I would ask that you do not come here to insult members of this blog. I and others will not tolerate it and I have therefore binned your last comment.

24 April 2008 23:19
SeaWitch said...
Tulip,

I feel exactly the same as you do. This is a big misunderstanding and I'm sure we can sort it out, but I think I'm going to take a raincheck tonight.

I shall think about a post for tomorrow.

Chinadoll,

You are respected because you speak your mind! lady with attitude, that's you, and we all love ya for it!

Night, all x

24 April 2008 23:20
chinadoll said...
Rosiepops,

I am sorry to have felt the need to have taken that action.

Abuse of any member of this blog will not be tolerated.

24 April 2008 23:21
Mum21 said...
Rosie,

You were all invited here because we liked you all.
If you wish to take it another way...then that is up to you.
This blog has nothing at all to do with the subject you post about.
All you need to do...is bin the invitations. Simple as that.
I will not become involved in an argument with you on here.

24 April 2008 23:21
Tulip said...
I can't believe this!

24 April 2008 23:23
chinadoll said...
Goodnight Seawitch,

May I remind you that you have acted with integrity and consideration at all times and you are very much appreciated by us all.

24 April 2008 23:23
Tulip said...
I can't believe this!

24 April 2008 23:23
SeaWitch said...
well,

I didn't see Rosie's last post, and she has deleted me from her blog.

Sass has mdismissed me with a curt "Hi and bye Seawitch"

Meanwhile, I haven't a clue what is going on so I am off for this evening.

See you all tomorrow x

24 April 2008 23:24
Tulip said...
Sorry I posted twice -- shows how shocked I must be!

24 April 2008 23:25
Mum21 said...
Tulip.

I don't believe it either.
Here we were minding our own business...chatting away...and BOOM.
Somehow the fun has gone out of the evening.

24 April 2008 23:27
chinadoll said...
Tulip,

We will not allow any interference in the smooth running of this blog.

Mum21 - please make sure Tulip has all of the bins incase she is put under similar pressure to that she has experienced on the other blog.

24 April 2008 23:27
Mum21 said...
China...I will look in the settings to see if I can do it

24 April 2008 23:30
chinadoll said...
Seawitch,

If that is Rosiepops attitude and worse still, if she represents the rest of the posters on the pro blog, then I will never step foot in there again. I suggest we all do the same.

24 April 2008 23:30
chinadoll said...
Tulip,

Are you looking forward to your weekend away?

I, for one, will miss our chats.

24 April 2008 23:32
chinadoll said...
Thanks Mum21,

Is Seawitch posting the article for tomorrow? She has gone off to bed upset and that really annoys me. What has she ever done to be subjected to that load of nonsense?

24 April 2008 23:34
Tulip said...
If you look at your mail now you'll see we have all been sent one from Jane accusing us of being insensitive.

What on earth is going on?

Gee how I'm looking forward to my weekend.

24 April 2008 23:36
Mum21 said...
Tulip.

Please refresh the page..then you should see bins on everyones comments.

24 April 2008 23:36
chinadoll said...
Mum21,

Sadly, I can confirm that the nest has been abandoned. When hubby gets home, we, more like he, will clean it out and put fresh straw in. They will, no doubt, be back for another go lol

24 April 2008 23:38
chinadoll said...
Tulip,

Don't take it out of context - we will not repricate the same problems here. We will sort it out as a group, a democracy lol

24 April 2008 23:41
Tulip said...
No bins Mum. But don't worry, I'm not such a delicate flower. I still don't know what is going on. I have/have had no beef with anyone.

24 April 2008 23:43
Rosiepops said...
This post has been removed by the author.
24 April 2008 23:45
Tulip said...
Sorry to be stupid, but what was Jane's email all about?

I told her I didn't like being called insensitive. All I did was accept an invite to join a friendly blog for heaven's sake!

24 April 2008 23:46
Tulip said...
So THAT's what it's about. At last I know. Then why does Jane include me in her accusatory email -- I didn't take any addresses!! I was an invitee!

24 April 2008 23:48
Mum21 said...
Rosie,

Nobody gave out email addresses..we just posted to the people who gave them to us. Some of which still email me at times.
As for giving a lead to our blog...that is impssible because all our ID's are unchecked.
We sent you an invite because we thought you were friends. Out of all the people we invited....you are the only one that has made a fuss.
We all wanted a break away from the heartbreaking subject...it was getting too much and invading our lives.
We wanted some light relief from it..that is all.

24 April 2008 23:54
Mum21 said...
Tulip...most of us on the other blog gave each other our email addresses...we were friends

24 April 2008 23:55
chinadoll said...
Once again Rosiepops, I would prefer to discuss such matters in private.

You have no idea of who emails who and how we are receipt of email addresses. You yourself emailed me today - a global email with every regular posters address included. During the last months, many of us have emailed eachother and copied others into same. Don't suggest to me that I need your or others permission for using the information that lands in my inbox, without your explicit consent.

Another moderator of your blog actually offered to send the email to the rest of your regular poster, so get off of your bike or high horse and do not come here to preach to me/us.

I genuinely feel that you would benefit from taking some time out and I say that from the heart.

Thanks for deleting the post that highlighted this blog - but, believe me, if the trash choose to poke their nose in here, they will not be tolerated.

24 April 2008 23:56
chinadoll said...
Tulip,

You have mail.

24 April 2008 23:57
Tulip said...
Night anyone left.

25 April 2008 00:00
chinadoll said...
Well Ladies,

It would seem that google/blogger is experiencing problems tonight.

May I take this opportunity of wishing you all a very Goodnight and that applies to all that have taken the trouble to post here or, look in.

Where is Athena?

Athena always has the capacity to calm any stormy waters.

Godbless All.

25 April 2008 00:30
chinadoll said...
Tulip,

Have a great weekend. I am not sure if you are away from tomorrow or Saturday.

Just enjjjjjjjjjjjjooooooooooyyyyyy

I look forward to resuming our chats soon. We kind of bounce off of eachother, as most of us do here lol

When you get back, you are definetly on bin duty and that means that there is a bin at the end of ever post, even mine.

Oy Tulip,

You mustn't touch my bin though lol

25 April 2008 00:40
JANEGT said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
25 April 2008 00:41
JANEGT said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
25 April 2008 00:43
chinadoll said...
Goodnight All,

May I suggest that any further correspondence is conducted by email only. I am here to listen.

25 April 2008 00:50
JANEGT said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
25 April 2008 01:08
chinadoll said...
You have mail

25 April 2008 01:14
chinadoll said...
New thread started by Mum21
-----------------------------------

The Source

leigh3 said...

Good Evening Mariana,

Interesting interview from Rachel Oldfield. A bunny jumping out of the oncoming headlights?

leigh3 said...

Hope,
The DE forum, as in online comment about its McCann headline stories, began shortly after Maddie went 'missing'.

As Alsabella used to say, it quickly became like a shrine to the McCanns, despite their obvious child neglect, apart from anything else. Clearly, it was invaded by Mitchell's minions, although it took time for objective eyes to detect the underlying, calculating purpose of it all.

Viv was like a breath of fresh air; an honest, humorous, legally trained mind, addressing issues, and dismissing spin. That is why she is remembered so fondly, I think.

Whenever spin went into overdrive, Viv stopped the cycle, and 'drained' it ;-) That's why the McCann Machine of media manipulators were determined to provoke her, and get rid of her. It was plain for all to see, and it is why she retains more respect than they do.

Honest inquiry is admirable. It's rare. It's what the silent majority want, in my view.

dolores said...

Mariana
In what context was she talking about resuscitation, do you know?Why would she say this,and what is the 'it' they could not have done.
And is she saying she was in the apartment when 'it' happened.

Ifind her comments rather puzzling.

mariana said...

Hi Leigh

I thought it was interesting. Should she go then to Portugal and set the record straight?

Dolores

It beats me. Why would anyone talk about resuscitation? It is totally out of context.

You can listen to the 30 minute interview here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/searchingformadeleine

bath theory said...

Leigh

The DX forum started straight away and there were only a few of us who spoke out and mentioned things like '...every angle needs to be investigated because they may have been involved..'

My memory is that these comments were tolerated initially and then suddenly the words coming back were ignorant and obviously coming from a family member or interested party.It wore you down and i think many just left cos of it. then gradually many more joined and it was almost us and them.

But, initially the words were calmer and based upon comments on how most people have lost their child for a second or minute etc and had a minor heart attack on the spot etc.

It got so bad we then realised these people were probably family members. I always thought Rosiepops was Philomena and I think Viv thought chinadoll was Kate.

leigh3 said...

Mariana,
What is the m.o. of the MO? I think the bunnies have jumped sideways, narrowly averting being run down. Just my opinion.

Baththeory,
I had no interest in the McCann story until it was manipulated, and I wondered why. Open minded, non judgemental inquiry was suddenly set upon by a pack of wolves. Why would that be?

When you people like you left, people like me looked closer. You returned. Equilibrium was restored.

This is an ongoing inquiry by many ;-)

hope4truth said...

Leigh

Thanks for that when I found the DX and posted I was pleased to see other people saying what I was thinking (obviously it has not allways been this way) I dont spend my life talking about the McCann's but I have not heard many people speak on their behalf in the real world. And when people do comment it is usually there is something not right there how could they think it was ok to leave them alone?

Truth will out xxx

mariana said...

Leigh

I think she was trying to say something to the PJ. She was not provoked or anything, just out of context.

leigh3 said...

Truth will out, Hopefortruth or at least some part of it, and that's enough to secure legal justice for Madeleine Beth McCann, dead aged 3, the beloved sister of Sean and Amelie.

That's just my opinion. I like your name, and your posts x

dolores said...

Mariana
Thanks for that,I will look later.

leigh3 said...

Mariana,
'...trying to say something...'

Suspects do often speak in code; speak under a veil of imposed silence, fearful of those who would seek retribution.

I think the PJ know they are dealing with some very scared bunnies who need protection, so that they can do the right thing...jump out of the way of the deranged driver.

mariana said...

Leigh

Right on. About time.
It just worries me that all those hot shot journalists do not see and hear what we do. It is a dangerous precedent.

Ecolab said...

I`m reading in my thousands of saved pages from DX Forum and I found this interesting and great piece from IRONSIDE. It is just showing another lie.
I`m sure he does not mind:

"OPINION FROM A DOCTOR
28.12.07, 6:28pm

“As a GP in a busy practice in the City of Edinburgh we probably have to attend five or six scene’s of death per week. All doctors in the practice deal with these and this duty is shared between us. I attend on average one per week and I work full time.
Kate McCann worked one, perhaps two, mornings per week before the McCann family went on holiday to Portugal. When the corpse scent was picked up on her clothes (July or August) she fell back on an excuse that some three months before (back at the end of April) she had come into contact with no less than six corpses during the week before her holiday. Given that the scent was picked up from her lower half and the jeans were apparently purchased in Portugal, that only leaves underwear to transfer the smell.
In my capacity as a full time family GP I cannot conceive of coming into contact with anything like this number of corpses in one week. I cannot understand how following normal protocols this corpse scent could be transferred, or how it would be evident on some new jeans three or four months later. This story of Kate McCann’s is not credible. It does not explain why the highly trained dogs should find corpse scent on her.”

Does anyone know of any major carnage, slaughter or cluster of deaths back in April in the area of Kate’s practice, which could explain the physical contact with so many corpses? Or just how this strange transferance could occur?

• Posted by: IRONSIDE • Report Comment
"

leigh3 said...

Mariana,

I think they hear and see whatever makes a headline, and await the next obvious turn in the investigation.

Unfortunately, the McCann Machine has fed the Media Machine, and given the illusion that this inquiry is about words.

It isn't. It's about deeds.

In that respect, the McCann Machine is busted; every spin cycle ends with what? With dirty laundry washed in public.

The PJ, assisted by their British colleagues, Interpol and child protection agencies are working in unison; quietly, devoted to one aim: justice for Madeleine, and every child.

viv said...

Ecolab

thanks so much for a typically great post from Ironside demonstrating his unswerving and dedicated capacity for insightful and relevant research in search of the truth, the informed truth, not the distorted lies of media mechanics.

Leigh, sometimes you make me blush, but thanks again for such lovely comments.

Viv x

leigh3 said...

Ecolab,

The General Medical Council in the UK are aware of the McCanns' 'odd behaviour', and 'odd statements'.

Ironside was right to highlight the GPs words. Don Ironside is a good researcher, and honest inquirer, in my view.

mariana said...

Ecolab

Extremely interesting. If you put it together with what Viv says on her post and the words of Rachael Oldfield, Bingo.

viv said...

Claudia

Thanks for copying the relevant posts from Driftwood and Diamonds - Rosiepops and JaneGT, irrational, deranged, aggressive...and very close to the McCanns and their "cause" to avoid justice at all costs and honest enquiry into what happened to a beautiful little girl who should have had her whole life ahead of her

Madeleine Beth McCann, dead at the hands of her parents, just before her fourth birthday which her parents then celebrated with a big balloon event on the beach, to raise millions for their own charity, the Kate and Gerry charity, never to be shared with others or to be used to find genuinely missing children, all for them. May they get what they truly deserve.

God Bless Little Madeleine, from people who really do care about you, not the money you can make them x

Ecolab said...

Viv dear..Yes I did save some great post. Do you remember CelticCarla from Australia? She wrote some great stuff, too.


leigh3 ...Yes of course they are aware. I still remember my answer to IRONSIDE..."You are right… . Even if she had extra shifts at the mortuary, she would not be smelling like a undertaker fooling around in old/jused/second-hand grave clothes, but she did!

Those dogs are so good. They smell(when they are fed) 800.000 times better than the human beeing. If the dog is hungry it smells 2.400.000 times better than the human beeing.

A cadaverdog never lies."

The McCanns are so unprofessionel. They imagine, they can talk their way out of anything.
I think, they both suffer from Münchhausen Syndrome by Proxy.

Cláudia said...

Hi, Viv.
You're welcome, darling.
I could not avoid PMSL while copy pasting that again today! :-)

Ecolab said...

Mariana ...What Viv says? In her first post? Entlight me please? I know it is getting late here in Denmark and I`m a little tired, sorry

leigh3 said...

Ecolab,
You wrote:

'I think, they both suffer from Münchhausen Syndrome by Proxy.'

I have wondered about that possibility.

mariana said...

Ecolab

This is part of what Viv says on her post.

"I think Gerry needed to get Kate out that apartment as quickly as possible (for obvious reasons) and start preparations for the clean up. OB was the main one who was going to help out here, going missing just as Gerry made sure he was back at the table at 9.30 and called the woman over to prove it. By this stage Gerry had an hour and a half to start putting his plans into action and when OB took over he was exchanging texts with him. Someone saw someone looking like Gerry with a child, near the church around 9 pm. The description of the man Jane Tanner gave to police is a description of Gerry McCann. I think he knew someone had spotted him removing Madeleine, initially to the beach area.

Remember also forensic evidence of Madeleine was found in another apartment, I would suggest, probably the OB's right next door. Perhaps the body was initially moved there, perhaps OB was working on Maddie trying to save her? He is an accident and emergency consultant, an obvious expert to work on a child who got battered or overdosed."

Cláudia said...

Guys, I just got an e-mail. Go to the most recent pink House of Filth and check a post by MumFromHell. I don't know which thread it is because the e-mail I got did not have the link, just the text copy pasted. It's about Docmac. In order to try and pathetically threaten him, she has just confirmed what he has always said and what ST and her deluded pals have always denied, that he is posting from South Africa. What a brainless moron. ST will certainly be pissed. Months saying Doc is not in SA and then the old witch comes and spoils it all... Furthermore, the old computer expert does not seem to know that if you visit a web page through a proxy you do it anonymously...

viv said...

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A MONTH MAKES TO THE ATTITUDE OF THE MCCANN "FRIENDS"

Here is an article from the BBC dated 24 April where it says the friends have always co-operated with the police, contrast that with what Clarence is now say, no, they will not go and co-operate with the police. What a lousy bunch of self-serving liars, who only care about themselves, care nothing for little Madeleine, and demonstrated just what their attitude to the rights of children are, they went out and left them alone every night and according to witnesses very rarely checked to see if they were OK. Rachel Oldfield, like the rest of the women, never! Now as a mum myself, that is something I just cannot understand and I never will. Rachel Oldfield only goes back to "help the police" when she has an agenda to pursue. In July 2007, she went back, along with Fiona Payne and O'Brien and aggressively accused Murat in a police organised confrontation. I would like to ask Rachel Oldfield just one question, is that what you call helping the police to find the truth?


McCann friend criticises 'leaks'
By Steve Kingstone
BBC News



Kate and Gerry McCann deny any wrongdoing

A friend of Madeleine McCann's parents has publicly criticised the Portuguese police for leaking information about the inquiry into the missing child.

Rachael Oldfield, who was with Kate and Gerry McCann, of Rothley, Leics, when their daughter disappeared last May, said there had been "double standards".

Witnesses had to remain silent, while Portuguese newspapers carried stories sourced to police, she told the BBC.

The McCanns remain arguidos - suspects - but deny any wrongdoing.

Mrs Oldfield is a member of the so-called "Tapas Seven" - friends of the McCanns who dined with them in a tapas restaurant on the night their three-year-old daughter disappeared during a family holiday on the Algarve.

In her first interview since Madeleine went missing, she said: "We were made to understand we could face two years in prison for speaking out, so as a group we've not said anything from day one.

"And there have been all these rumours flying around and leaks from sources close to the PJ [the Policia Judiciaria - Portuguese police]."

We've always said we want to leave no stone unturned and to do that we need to know which stones have already been overturned

Gerry McCann
Asked to characterise police actions, she replied: "Well, double standards. They leaked information and these rumours which have flown around for the past year...

"We would have loved to have put the record straight."

'No communication'

Mrs Oldfield said it had been "agonising" to watch the McCanns' reaction when Madeleine went missing from a ground floor apartment in Praia da Luz on 3 May 2007.

"Anyone with an ounce of common sense would be able to see they couldn't have done it," she said.

She added that lifting the arguido status on Mr and Mrs McCann would "enable the investigation to move forward and certainly it would enable [them] to work more closely with the PJ".


It is almost a year since Madeleine McCann's disappearance

"Currently they don't really have any communication with the PJ which, when they're investigating the disappearance of their daughter, is quite astounding."

Mr McCann told BBC Radio 4 that he and his wife received so little information, that they were unsure Portuguese police were still searching for their daughter.

He added: "We would like to know what is being done to find Madeleine.

"We'd like to know who has been eliminated from the inquiry and on what grounds and what leads are still being followed.

"We've always said we want to leave no stone unturned and to do that we need to know which stones have already been overturned."

Secret files

The Tapas Seven are regarded by Portuguese police as important witnesses in the Madeleine investigation. None of them has been made a formal suspect and all have co-operated willingly and voluntarily with the investigation.

Separately, a senior figure in Portugal with direct knowledge of the investigation has told a BBC Radio 4 documentary there is only a slim chance of murder or manslaughter charges being filed against Kate and Gerry McCann or Robert Murat, the third arguido.

The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, insisted all lines of inquiry remain open, including the original theory that Madeleine was abducted.

Mr Murat was made a suspect after Mrs Oldfield and two other members of the Tapas Seven - Russell O'Brien and Fiona Payne - said they saw him in the Praia da Luz complex during the evening Madeleine disappeared.

Mr Murat denies he was there, and maintains he was at home with his mother all night.

Portuguese police are now coming under pressure to make public the case files which, under judicial secrecy laws, currently remain closed.

The President of the Portuguese Order of Lawyers, Antonio Marinho e Pinto, told the BBC: "There are strong reasons to fear that judicial secrecy is being used... to conceal the fact that the police have gone down a blind alley and don't have a way out."

Ecolab said...

mariana et All:

Yes it make sense.

I remember celticcarla wrote something very important - goes in the same line..here it comes:

"31.12.07, 6:06pm

Thing is swingers generally do it at home, maybe they thought they'd have the apartment each with their children for the holiday and i dont know take turns at each other apartments after drinking etc at tapas bar? I dont really know, but the point of this subject was the discussion of the possibility that maddie had eaten a little blue pill (you know the one that gets men up) excited blah and that would give her a heart attack and bleed from her orifaces etc. Thats where this whole topic came from tonight. That it could be as simple as that, an accident by eating medication that was pretty enough to be a lolly but with deadly consequences. And then the parents had to cover it up etc.

• Posted by: celticcarla • Report Comment
"

Even if there are 50 doctors around, sometimes it is NOT possible to save a person!

mariana said...

Viv

It is obvious they want to find out what the PJ have on the McCann's and the rest of them.
"We'd like to know who has been eliminated from the inquiry and on what grounds and what leads are still being followed."
Oldfield is a lawyer.

leigh3 said...

No one can resuscitate a dead child.

No one can resuscitate a missing child.

The police inquiry has a focus on one night, a night spanning two dates: 2nd and 3rd May.

Imagine what it is like for Mark Warner staff to go searching for parents of crying children, only to find them in a bar/restaurant far beyond the sight and sound of their children.

Imagine what it is like for those parents and their friends. The embarrassment of being called to account by who? By underlings, as these 'professionals' would think of it.

Imagine being parents forced back to their apartment on 2nd May to deal with crying children, heard by many.

Mrs Fenn,in the apartment above, and others, heard cries, and rows on the night of 2nd May...then silence. There is no independent, corroborated sighting of Madeleine in the DAYLIGHT hours of May 3rd.

Viv is right again. Very many witnesses. So few witness statements to support the McCanns' claims. Only McCann friends, family, 'contacts', and hired hands back their claims.

Robert Murat, innocent. Father Pacheco, innocent. Gipsies, innocent. All victims of a smear campaign, imo.

There are many victims of Gerry McCanns' merciless media machine, aiming to crush anyone who questions his version of events.

Chinadoll: go girl. You can find your own voice with true friends, and your site may yet become the solace, and true defender for Kate. Just a thought.

mariana said...

Leigh

I believe RM has nothing to do with anything regarding Madeleine.
I also believe though, they had to have help from some local person.

leigh3 said...

Mariana,

A local person. I agree. A local person with a lot of money riding on GMs links to the NHS, and his 'contacts' links to the UK Government.

Ecolab said...

I`m off. My bed is calling very loud out for me...or am I calling out for my bed?? Well either way...

See you tomorrow ;-))

leigh3 said...

Mariana,

Follow the money. G + G.

Tapas 9 is a very odd number, physically and financially.

Locals talk of Maddie's missing 'Uncle'.

Apart from blood/genetic links, 'Uncle' is a term given in the UK to anyone liked by parents, and introduced to children as a trusted person.

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

I agree that local person who was helping the McCanns was Geraghty the millionaire businessman living on the outskirts of PDL. It as Dolores who explained all this to me.

He was involved with the redevelopment of Leicestershire Hospitals in his business capacity. IN May 2007 an audit of the scheme commenced due to greedy people like Geraghty saying the projected costs increased by £2M to over 9M. All these doctors have current or former links to Leicester Hospitals. Now I think the real purpose of the trip was to liaise with Geraghty and try and save this development from being axed because they all stood to make lots of money from it. In July 2007 the audit was completed and the scheme was indeed axed so Gerry was coming up with another way to make a mint and was no doubt very angry about losing this nice little earner. We have previously looked at the McCanns finances including the massive mortgage they have and it just does not add up to them being in a very comfortable position financially and how much does private fertility treatment cost?

I wonder if Geraghty has a speed boat?

nancy said...

Mariana -

I just popped in and read this evening's posts.

I'm sorry I confused you.I mean't the end of the tapas 7 holiday in PdeL, not the PJ's holidays and that they didn't hang around after that; only K&G stayed (until it no longer suited them of course).
-----------------------------------
After reading all your posts, I've been feeling a bit nostalgic too for the DX days, even though I was thrown off twice! I do remember with pleasure Big L and Rothaymere and often wondered why she didn't come on Viv's blog, or on the 3A's. She was very intelligent and didn't let the R gang get away with anything!

Talking of Rosie's gang , I had a good chuckle to myself reading about them all in Claudia's post, because I kept conjuring up Docmac's picture of the lot of them in the 1890's outfits - so becoming and that's how I'll always think of them from now on!!

Rosie must be feeling pretty fed up with nobody on her site, and the rest of her 'loyal' gang turning against her now!! With pals like those who needs enemies.
It's her own fault, she shouldn't be such a bossy boots!!

Very late now - we've been out with a dozen friends tonight eating and drinking but we are a bit too old in the tooth to be getting into each other (unfortunately)!!!

See you all tomorrow!!

Nancy xx

leigh3 said...

Viv,
;-) You clever minx.

viv said...

Mariana

Great post again. Rachel Oldfield was formerly a lawyer, very handy I am sure. Gerry has always let slip he is dying to know what the PJ have found in their investigation, because he just loves to scheme accordingly, one can just imagine his sheer rage and frusration they wont tell him, it is a raw nerve the police will not talk to him and we have the pic top left to see what he looks like in a rage. We know he can be a very angry person who has difficulty controlling his temper. Even bouncing off TV sets when the questions are not according to the script he wrote. Classic control freak and classic pure rage when he is not in control.

It is obvious they want to find out what the PJ have on the McCann's and the rest of them.
"We'd like to know who has been eliminated from the inquiry and on what grounds and what leads are still being followed."
Oldfield is a lawyer.

Cláudia said...

Pssst, MumFromHell, I just visited your depressing cave.

southerncross said...

Good evening everyone

Viv, I have to apologize for my speedy entrance and exit a couple of nights ago. Just posted a few comments and did not really contribute to the discussion at all.

Thank you for the articles, opinions of the posters and links . Keep up the good work!

I am wondering about the supposed reconstruction in 3 days time. Will it take place?
Has The Pink One persuaded the gullible public that Kate is too fragile?
Will the rest of the Tapasniks take the blame for not complying to the PJ's request?
Marianna, if you are still here, you have an amazing informative blog, thank you !

nancy said...

Night Viv -

Interesting post about Geraghty - that's something I wasn't aware of! And of course that could explain why GM said on the coach that he wasn't there to enjoy himself!! So it looks like the redevelopment was axed in the end or else it would have been all over the press if the GM had been involved!

I bet he did have a speedboat, and a yacht hanging around in PdeL harbour!

See you tomorrow Viv. You must be tired out with all your blogging today and up last night doing the article for today!

It's great that we seem to have a really good team on here and we all get on well!


luv Nx

Cláudia said...

Hi, Southerncross!
IMO, No, they will never come unless they are forced to. Terrified!

mariana said...

Leigh

8:00 G & K arrived at the Tapas bar.

8:30 GM was coming out of his apartment when he met Wilkins. He went back to the bar after chatting with him.

9:30 GM invited Mrs. Chekaya to their table to have a drink with them thus establishing an alibi like Viv says.

10:00 GM called Alistair Clark.

The clean up happened before 9:30.

leigh3 said...

Southerncross,

The 'tapasniks' can do what they jolly well like; it makes no difference to how they will be treated. They can comply or be compelled to assist with the ongoing inquiry; due process of law, and inquiry.

Only their lawyers can stall the process, but the process will insist.

They know that. They will be held to account for their actions, not the McCanns' words.

With or without the reconstruction, this process goes on. It is what it is: due diligence.

It's a pity the public were given any other impression.

Nice to see you, btw.

mariana said...

Viv

The only thing I can say to you is that you are doing such a great job for Madeleine's human rights.
I thank you for your hospitality.

viv said...

That is a very helpful timeline Mariana and you remember the names much better than I do, I was really pleased with myself for remembering Geraghty!

I think the clean up was timed with military precision to be completed by 9.30 and as Gerry said on Panorama miraculously enough they believe Madeleine was taken about 9.40. What an extraordinary coincidence. Of course he now contradicts himself and says she was taken at 9.15 to coincide with what the fanciful Tanner states..she has to be his fallback position at the end of the day, because, in spite of a massive trawl by M3 and wads of cash being handed out to "witnesses" they cannot produce one single witness that says there were any creepy men in the vicinity around 9.40 or 9.15 for that matter either. I think that was what Gerry was hoping for because he knew Jane's "evidence" was completely destroyed by Wilkins. Not to mention the fact it is really bizarre a "predator" would choose to calmly walk out with your child right at the same moment you stand there in the road! Dear, dear Gerry, you are not very smart at all really are you!

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv,
I am surprised that G has shown no outrage and fury about tapas 7 going to PDL for the reconstruction.And no 'it's ludicrous' from the pink mouthy one about them making waves.

Gerharty is one person I hope is closely scrutinised by PJ.

viv said...

Does anyone recall we did have another McCann/M3/Clarence leak to the press there were indeed three creepy men hanging around smoking, now what happened to them, just like all the supposed sightings, whooosh clunk, gone x Sometimes it is almost like Gerry is having a bit of a larff...

leigh3 said...

Mariana,

How about long before 9.30? How about daylight hours? There is no independent sighting of Madeleine in the daylight hours of May 3rd. None.

Maybe GM was putting the finishing touches to the scene (the shutters), and unexpectedly encountered the pain in the a** innocent bystander.

Remember: first words 'jemmied', but of course it turned out nothing was 'jemmied', contrary to the plan, interrupted by the pain in the a** innocent bystander.

Yet GM, a rigid technician, had to stick to the plan. Just a thought.

No matter. Game over. Criminal court. Libel court.

Frankly, my dear, do we give a damn?

southerncross said...

Leigh and Claudia

Always a pleasure to read you!

Claudia, I have read reports of the "friends" having certain conditions to return and also the pink one very worried about Kate's state of mind.
You certainly don't have to be a psychologist or psychiatrist(or for that matter anyone working in Mental Health)to be assured that Mrs(Dr) Mccann is quite fit and healthy to travel, make presentations, pose for the camera(s) etc.
Sickening

Leigh, so sorry I did not reply a couple of days ago , but I just signed in and posted when there was another disagreement going on. I hope you are well :)

mariana said...

Viv

Suppose I believe his version which is that the paedophile was stalking the family and in fact it was the Godfather Jon Conor who had suggested that someone was stalking the McCann's.
My goodness, the previous evening the stalker must have noticed they had gone half a mile away, so why didn't he do it then?

Why did everyone assumed it was Madeleine "they 've taken her" and not Amelie?

Why would a paedophile risk an older child who can remember people and places?

mariana said...

Leigh

Exactly. This what I have been saying all along.
After they came home from Chaplins there was a huge fight.
Mrs. Fenn was a witness to the shouting.
What happened there?

According to O'Donnell GM played tennis on the 3rd, but she could not tell for sure if Maddie was there.

hope4truth said...

Hello Southerncross

Nice to see you xxx

leigh3 said...

Mariana,

How about long before 9.30? There is no independent sighting of Madeleine on May 3rd; only the words and pictures of the McCanns, their friends, family, and hired hands.

Maybe GM was putting the finishing touches to the scene, and interrupted by the 'pain in the a** innocent bystander'.

Remember first words of McCanns to family: windows jemmied. There is no evidence of anything jemmied (meaning: forced open).

Perhaps GM, the technician, stuck to the rigid plan, although there was insufficient time to 'jemmy' in a way that investigators would believe.

Just a thought. Amateurs do weird things.

leigh3 said...

Oops. My PC went black, so posted again to Mariana.

Can we all remember one point: the Daily Mirror forum went black after people honed in on the connection between the McCann story,commercial connections, and UK Government involvement.

This is what it is.

leigh3 said...

Southerncross.

I'm well; never been better ;-) Hope you are too. Judging by your tone, you are!

mariana said...

Yes Leigh

Freaky situation. I think we are all in for a rude awakening when the truth comes out and it will. Wilkins the spoiler. There is no such thing as a perfect crime.

leigh3 said...

Mariana,

You write: 'Wilkins the spoiler. There is no such thing as the perfect crime.'

True.

And there are other 'spoilers'. So many words and actions by the soon to be 'accused', and any bunny caught in the headlights that lacked the self-preservation instinct to jump out of the way while they had the chance.

southerncross said...

Hello Hope,:) so nice to see that you are okay!

Leigh, I think you have hit the nail on the head- amateurs do weird things.
People panicking(irrespective of their intelligence, social standing or class),do give themselves away.
We have so many contradictory facts, speculations, hearsay, forum myths etc. What I do know is that a little girl is still lost.Disappeared. Without a trace.

And the parents,friends and supporters of child neglectors find every excuse to hinder a police enquiry seeking justice and truth.
Projecting, blaming and threatening everyone except the ones that were responsible for this tragedy-the parents

mariana said...

Well said Leigh

Cláudia said...

Southerncross, they never intended to come and they will only do it if they are forced. I said from the beginning that this time the friends would be their excuse. They will only come if the result of not coming is more dangerous than the result of going ahead with the reconstruction.

leigh3 said...

Mariana,
We know how this will end. It ends in truth being told; 'the truth about the lie', as Portugal insists.

It's all over, bar the shouting, as we say in the UK, however long it takes.

The McCann Machine of media manipulators are busted. Honest inquiry insists on truth. No surrender.

Justica para Madeleine.

leigh3 said...

Southerncross.
I agree.

Whoa! That's more words from you than we've seen in a long time ;-)))
x

leigh3 said...

And finally,

My favourite McCann supporters have appeared on 3arguidos. They're getting some 'stick' for their efforts, but persevering still.

I think the McCanns are entitled to an honest, credible defence in our democracy. This is our world. We made laws and customs to protect us all, especially the weak, whoever they may be, whatever age they may be.

Night all. Justice is coming, I hope.
xo
leigh

mariana said...

Hi Claudia

Please enlighten us here.
What time does it get dark in early May?

southerncross said...

Claudia,
I think you were right all along.
What an extremely convenient excuse. But playing that game,they are giving themselves away.
Nevermind... truth will prevail. It always does.
I just feel so sorry for the negative and downright xenophobic remarks your lovely country and kind people had to endure.

southerncross said...

Night Leigh, take care!

Cláudia said...

Mariana, it depends on the weather. Today, for instance, almost at the end of May, it was rainy and dark. At 8 o'clock it was very dark. On a normal May night I would say that at 9 o'clock it's completely dark and that at 8 0'clock it's difficult to see things accurately. Especially if they aren't there! :-)

Southerncross, my country and my people will certainly survive the smears and insults thrown by people who defend child convicter killers. But thank you for your kind words.

leigh3 said...

Southerncross,
Thank you. I do take care.

Others should take care too. I'm patient them, only for now.

See you next time, southerncross.
x
leigh

Cláudia said...

Sleep tight, Leigh.

mariana said...

Claudia
Thank you. Extremely helpful.
Absolutely, positively, there was nobody there.
Have to download some updates now.
cu later

leigh3 said...

Dearest Claudia,

Buenos noches, chica.
xo
leigh

southerncross said...

Good night Leigh and Claudia
I apologize for my ghastly grammar and spelling

Cláudia said...

You're welcome, guys!!!

Boa noite, Mariana, Leigh and Southerncross.

Cláudia said...

Sleep tight, everybody.

Dorme bem, querida Viv.
Beijinhos!

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

Thanks for answering Mariana's question about what time it gets dark. Around 9 pm generally. So at around 9.05 Gerry removed Madeleine's body, I believe, probably from behind the sofa where the dogs marked her lifeless little body had lain. He has said he looked down on her and thought how beautiful she is, the words of a true psycopath.

dolores said...

This is the full article it was taken from:


Madeleine McCann's Mother Suspect CNN Newsroom Transcript

Aired September 7, 2007 - 10:00 ET

NGUYEN: Do want to get you back to those shocking developments in the search for Madeleine McCann, the British girl who vanished during a family vacation in Portugal. A family spokesman says the four-year-old's mom is now named a suspect.

CNN's Paula Hancocks joins us now from Portimao with the latest on this case.

And a lot of people waking up thinking what has happened in this search for the person who was involved in this. And now all fingers are pointing at the mother. Very interesting, Paula.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Betty. Yes, Kate McCann has been inside the police station for the past four hours this Friday. Now she was here for 11 hours for questioning on Thursday, but that was as a witness. The difference now is she is a formal suspect, according to the Portuguese police. They believe that they have enough evidence, enough forensic evidence, to be able to consider her a suspect and involved, possibly in some way, in the disappearance of her four-year-old daughter Madeleine.

Now we are also expecting at some point this afternoon -- we were expect it an hour ago -- the arrival of Gerry McCann, the husband. He also is coming in to undergo some questioning. At this point we believe he will be questioned as a witness. But certainly a surprising turnaround of events.

We also know from the spokesperson for the McCann family, they were talking to us earlier, saying that part of the reason they believe that they decided to treat Kate McCann as a suspect is because they found blood in the rental car that her and Gerry McCann had rented. But, bizarrely, they had rented it 25 days after Madeleine had been declared missing.

Now also hearing from the lawyer for the family. He is telling us that she may well be charged this evening -- that's Friday evening -- and may well be held in custody until that time. And also he said that there were more blood samples found on a piece of clothing that Kate McCann had given to the police about a month ago.

So this is what the evidence that the Portuguese police have. We're hearing nothing from them themselves. This is all coming from the family and their representatives. But at this point they believe they have enough to keep her in as a suspect.

NGUYEN: OK, Paula, just so that we can clarify just a little bit in this case as these developments are coming out, the mother is a suspect now, but both the mother and the father rented this vehicle, but at this point the father has not been named a suspect.

HANCOCKS: That's right. It's not entirely clear whose name this vehicle was in, but certainly it was said to us by the spokesperson that it was rented by the McCann family by the McCanns, meaning the parents. But we know that Kate McCann was here for 11 hours yesterday for this questioning as a witness. Now Gerry McCann is supposed to be on his way for his questioning as a witness as well. And at this point we have no indications.

The spokesperson said it is possible that he also could be a suspect, but didn't really want to go into that because she just didn't know. She said at this point it's just Kate McCann who is formally a suspect. Which, for her, it could actually be a protection legally because it means that the questions that the police now ask her, she's not legally obliged to answer them. Yesterday she was legally obliged to answer for 11 hours. Today for four hours she can remain silent.

NGUYEN: All right. CNN's Paula Hancocks joining us live with the latest in this story. And, of course, we'll be following it very closely. Thank you.

HARRIS: John Corner joins us now. He is a friend to the McCanns and the godfather to their twins.

John, good to talk to you.

What is your reaction to the news that Kate McCann is now a suspect in the disappearance of Maddie?

JOHN CORNER, FRIEND OF MCCANNS: Well, I'm appalled, but I'm also frustrated. You know, I've worked very, very hard with Kate and Gerry in the campaign to find our missing child and our missing Madeleine. And what we're worried about truly is that this investigation or this new line that the Portuguese police have taken is going to derail those real efforts.

You know, we were in Spain only a few weeks ago and dropping posters in different towns in Spain. And what we were amazed that is 50 percent of the people that we were approaching had never heard of Madeleine. And that's what we're up against right at street level of getting those posters out. And that advice had come to us from the U.S. The International Center for Missing and Exploited Children have been marvelous in their support and guidance and direction. They're the world experts. And they're saying to us, you know, six months in an average time. So hang on in there. Keep looking for Madeleine. And now this.

HARRIS: Well, John, I'm trying to understand here, Kate is now an official formal suspect. You believe she had nothing to do with this disappearance?

CORNER: Absolutely. Absolutely.

HARRIS: So why do you think she's a suspect? And have you heard -- you certainly are aware of the new evidence that seems to be pointing, at least the authorities, in her direction?

CORNER: Well, you know, whenever Kate and Gerry hear that there's new evidence or new technological evidence, it gives them hope because they think the Portuguese police are going to have a new breakthrough, it's going to lead us to whoever's abducted Madeleine. It's going to allow us to get her back home safely. And I think it's truly frustrating and exasperating. It's just dreadful that the mind set of the police is quite the opposite, that they're actually looking into the parents and not looking out, not doing the search, not doing the intensive work that we really need . . .

HARRIS: You would have been surprised -- John, you would have been surprised if the authorities hadn't looked at the parents, wouldn't you?

CORNER: Well, you know, Kate and Gerry were interviewed at some length in that first few days. Interviewed extensively. And that's good -- that due diligence, that's good practice. You know, all police forces do that. You look, you interview the parents, you clear them and you move on and we get out there and find Madeleine. And for us to come full circle after four months is just dreadful. It's (INAUDIBLE).

HARRIS: Well, how do you explain the apparent break-through in the case? You mentioned a break-through a moment ago. Well, there has been a break-through in the case, according to the authorities. How do you explain the blood in the rental car? A car rented more than 20 days after Maddie was reported missing? How do you explain it?

CORNER: It defies explanation, quite frankly. I have no idea. It flies in the face of common sense. I could speculate all day about that, but . . .

HARRIS: Well wait a minute, John. I mean this is DNA evidence. This is DNA found in a rental car that was rented by the couple 20 days -- I'm just asking you, how do you explain it?

CORNER: It makes -- I can't explain it. It makes no sense. It makes no sense.

HARRIS: Do you or do you not . . .

CORNER: I just know that . . .

HARRIS: Do you not trust what the authorities are saying to you? Have you talked to Gerry or Kate about the new evidence?

CORNER: No, I haven't. Not about new evidence. Only about the police line of questioning last night. And, quite frankly, it makes no sense to me and I can't speculate on it. You know, it just -- it makes no sense at all.

HARRIS: So the authorities come back, let me just try this on you. The authorities come back to Kate and to Gerry because the question lingers, who leaves a three-year-old to watch two-year-old twins. Who does that?

CORNER: Well, you have to understand the situation. I think the only thing that Kate and Gerry are guilty of is a little bit of complacency. It's a very, very sleepy town. Well, it certainly was before the media . . .

HARRIS: Complacency? How about neglect?

CORNER: There has been police force (ph) . . .

HARRIS: How about neglect? How about child endangerment?

CORNER: Well, I disagree with that. I disagree with that. And if you talk to the International Center for Missing and Exploited Children, they disagree with that, too.

HARRIS: So as a general practice, it's OK with you, in your mind and the way you think for a three-year-old to be left to care for two- year-old twins?

CORNER: I'm not sure that's productive at this stage to talk about that. I mean, I've been to (INAUDIBLE). I've looked at it very carefully myself. And it literally was like sitting in your garden. That's how far away the apartment was.

HARRIS: OK. John Corner is a friend of the McCanns and, John, some tough questions to ask you, but we appreciate you stepping up to take those questions on for us.

CORNER: Yes.

HARRIS: Appreciate it. Thank you.

viv said...

Just having another read of your link to Driftwood and Diamonds, Claudia and Chinadoll seems very knowledgeable, in fact downright bright about financial matters, one comment she made that I found really interesting was the more sophisticated the system becomes the more sophisticated the criminal becomes, well I do not think Kate and Gerry are anywhere near as sophisticated as they like to think, especially in relation to fraud! By the way Kate, good posts, shame the site descended into such chaos as you seemed to be really in your element here, clearly money and all matters appertaining thereto, including fraud and legal cases really interests you:

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:_gSfWPvxG9gJ:driftwoodanddiamonds.blogspot.com/2008/04/mortgage-woes-and-views-of-ignoramous.html+rosiepops&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=65&gl=uk%3Cbr/%3E.

Viv x

chinadoll said...
Tulip,

Another headline in todays' Daily Telegraph:-

Internet fraud rises to £500m

'Credit card and debit card fraud on the internet is much greater than previous estimates, findings published yesterday have suggested.
Bank industry figures published earlier this year show 'card not present' losses for internet, phone and mail order crime were £290.5 million last year. But a BBC news investigation found that £500m of fraud took place when failed attempts were taken into account.'

It seems the more sophisticated the system becomes, the more sophisticated the criminal becomes.

24 April 2008 15:43

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

Thanks very much for that link of Jon Corner getting a bit of a grilling there.

Immediately he is asked the difficult question what do you think about Kate being a suspect he changes the subject to talk about their "campaign". I am sorry to say this but Margaret Thatcher or Tony Blair (two excellant political deviants) could have done no better than this to simply fail to answer such a difficult question:

What is your reaction to the news that Kate McCann is now a suspect in the disappearance of Maddie?

JOHN CORNER, FRIEND OF MCCANNS: Well, I'm appalled, but I'm also frustrated. You know, I've worked very, very hard with Kate and Gerry in the campaign.....(and so it goes on, completely failing to answer the question, turning it totally to Madeleine's supposed abduction. )

To leaving a three year old in charge of two year olds he says:

"I'm not sure that's productive at this stage to talk about that." and

"Well, you have to understand the situation. I think the only thing that Kate and Gerry are guilty of is a little bit of complacency."

Well that is certainly a well rehearsed line Gerry drummed into all his deviant little followers and apologists...he even mentions it is just like being in the garden..Gerry clearly gives people a real good lecture on what to say. NO matter how he attempts to sidestep the issue we do understand the situation, it was a garden they could not see or hear and three tiny tots just got left completely alone in a strange place whilst their parents drank copious amounts of alcohol and got really into their friends.

I was interested to read Kate handed clothing to the police a month previously and blood was found on this too, no wonder they think she did it, but it could still have been Gerry and she was very nearby trying to stop it..She certainly got a hiding off Gerry and I believe that was mainly on the previous night, when Mrs Fenn heard her loud and out of control. Domestic violence builds incrementally and becomes ever more serious. Strangely enough holidays and christmas times are the worse times.

No surprises Mr Corner just did not want to even attempt to explain the detailed forensic evidence against the McCanns. Her solicitor must have thought it was really bad, I see he was saying he expected her to be charged and remanded in custody. It continues to be a bit of mystery as to why they were allowed to go home and clearly hindered the PJ investigation, or did it? Maybe they needed Leics police to do a lot more snooping and letting them go home aided that. Their biggest problem has always been the lack of the body and the lack of any admissions from either of them as to precisely what happened to Maddie in that apartment and who did it. There has to be an element of doubt as to whether it was Kate or Gerry, what they have may suggest it was her, but they could not ignore she got battered by him, which must have meant they could not be sure that it was not him. Hence the need for further detailed investigation and just time, to watch the McCanns and see how things develop. They have spun and mouthed off so much they certainly did not help themselves. Blogging was a real daft idea! Did it not occur to Kate the police will be sitting on a computer watching every word she types!

viv said...

Just had a look back to a newpaper report dated 8 April that I posted. So then the excuse was Kate's emotional state, now it is the friends won't do it! Earlier I posted yet another report where the friends were saying they would always help the police, oh right! We get the usual twaddle from Mitchell oh well they would do a crime watch TV drama to publicise the abduction and get more leads, put a sock in it ~Clarence, people are laughing at you!


8th April 2008
The McCanns, both doctors from Rothley in Leicestershire, are considering the request but sources close to the couple suggest 40-year-old Mrs McCann's “emotional state” may be too fragile.
As reported in last week, the McCanns are poised for the return following correspondence between Paulo Rebelo, the senior detective leading the investigation and Rogerio Alves, the McCanns' lawyer in Lisbon.

Spokesman Clarence Mitchell said today: “Kate and Gerry welcome the idea of a Crimewatch-style reconstruction which is broadcast on television and will generate more leads and more calls in the search for Madeleine.”
But sources close to the couple pointed out they had suggested just such a reconstruction last May and it was turned down by Portuguese police.

7There are fears the current request is an excuse to get the McCanns back to Portugal where police will attempt to put more pressure on the pair.
A source said: “There are concerns from some quarters if they go back as to what this reconstruction would achieve if it is not broadcast.
"Kate is concerned about her emotional state to do this. She is quite upset.
“They all want to get through this investigative phase and get themselves cleared and if this helps then fine. But it is always a worry when they don't know what the motives of the police are.”
A legal source close to the couple said today: “They have been advised to come back. They want to clear this up as fast as possible and get on with finding their daughter.”
The reconstruction would involve dozens of people — including the Tapas Seven — enacting the night's events.
They would then be compared with a timeline of evidence compiled from British police interviews with more than 50 people this month.

hope4truth said...

Morning All

I dont understand the mentality of the McCann's / Family / Friends. Of course your family will want to defend you they know you best also they are suffering at the loss of a child from that family.

My Parents love me very much we have a fantastic relationship (there is only me) but they also have 2 Grandaughters whom they also love (and can get away with more than I ever did) as I did with my Grandparents.

This is where I dont understand they would support me in this tragic situation but they would never in a million years be saying that the neglect was ok and would be sending me back to PDL to take part in a reconstruction and would have been out searching when she went missing.

The below that I copied from Delores's post is not right...

"HARRIS: How about neglect? How about child endangerment?

CORNER: Well, I disagree with that. I disagree with that. And if you talk to the International Center for Missing and Exploited Children, they disagree with that, too.

HARRIS: So as a general practice, it's OK with you, in your mind and the way you think for a three-year-old to be left to care for two- year-old twins?

CORNER: I'm not sure that's productive at this stage to talk about that. I mean, I've been to (INAUDIBLE). I've looked at it very carefully myself. And it literally was like sitting in your garden. That's how far away the apartment was."

Of course it was bloody wrong the fact that they say Madeline is missing because of it shows how dangerous it was?

I am begining to realise that they believed that everyone would just buy what they were selling. No one would dare question the events (after all they have lost a child) and the anger and arrogance from Gerry is there because people have dared to question them and no one is allowed to go against what he tells us...

Keep up the spin CM it used to make me sick now every time you speak more and more people dont believe a word of it.

Get back to PDL and help find your daughter if she is missing so far you have refused to answer questions and if she is really missing that is on par with the neglect maybe if you had been honest it may have given her a chance.

How dare any parent think they are more important than their child? When a baby is born things change and if you are not prepared for the change dont have children. They are a huge responisbility and most of us think they are worth every sleepless night and every missed night out.

This country had better be clear on child neglect because if another child suffers by some idiot who says it wasnt neglect because we did the same as the McCanns the world will be a worse place.

nancy said...

So Kate is too fragile to go back to PdeL unless the reconstruction is on television via crimewatch! That makes no sense whatsoever - so she is suddenly going to get a burst of energy if it's on telly then!! What a load of rubbish from CM as usual!

That woman has the strength of an ox in my opinion and she is just doing the poor little me act to make people feel sorry for her! She seemed to summon up enough strength to tour the world with hubby doing their 'look at us' interviews alright. She might fool CM but she certainly doesn't fool me!

nancy said...

Good morning Hope and anyone else reading:

So what about leaving them when they went to Chaplins restaurant the night of the 2nd then? That wasn't like sitting in the garden was it?

Pity Harris didn't put that one to Jon Corner -

The truth will come out eventually and all these parasitic hangers on in the McCann camp are going to look pretty stupid to everyone.

Bring it on PJ's and soon!!!

hope4truth said...

Morning Nancy

I think if it comes out about Chaplins (if true) it will blow the last bit of credibility they both have (especialy the Back Garden Rubbish)..

As for Kate if she had not just been on a tour as the saviour of Amber Alert I may buy she is fragile.

She does look ill but guilt will eat you alive and she is becoming stronger when she speaks now...

No stone unturned unless it involves searching yourself answering questions or helping the PJ in any way.

I have never wanted them to go to jail for neglect as if she really was taken what could be worse. But the way they are behaving and not helping I really could not care anymore I just hope the twins are protected against all of this and are cared for...

xxx

nancy said...

Hope -

I think they will go to jail for something much worse than neglect! The discrepancies in the tapas 9 stories are obvious to anyone with half a brain and could fill a book if anyone cared to write them all down!!

IMO there is so much more to this case than any of us can imagine and that's why these people are being given the kid glove treatment - something or someone important is being protected I'm sure!

As Leigh say - slowly slowly.....


Off to get breakfast now - see you later Hope!!

Nx

Niki said...

Good morning everyone! Hope you are all well:-)

I have been reading different sites today to get an update on the case. Somehow passed through Briansdreams too, and saw Vivs last tread with pictures published!

http://www.briansdreams.com/MISSING/private/5441page30.htm

Anyway, read a bit back on his site, and found this post:

Rose can you forward this to Brian.

***

Hello Brian this is just to let you know that I appreciate all that your readers and you do to continue to help the search for Madeleine.

I have felt a bit scared recently re some posts which seem to be quite negative as regards to finding Madeleine alive. I realise that as time goes on it becomes more difficult to imagine a wonderful day when she is returned to us. I must however continue to hope that this is possible as the thought of our lives without her is too painful. If Madeleine is alive somewhere it would be unthinkable to stop trying to find her.

I dont know who and what is being done privately to find Madeleine. I do know however that there is no rest on this front.

If Kate and Gerry knew what was in the PJ files it might have made their own investigation easier. Having to start again is time consuming but we can only hope that some of the responses to the latest appeal will bear fruit.

The new number 08458384699 or the web site e mail contact addresses, will result in all possible follow up being done on callers information. I know from my own experience that it would be wonderful to get a reply to info given but we just have to accept that this wont happen but that all info is weighed and if at all possible, acted upon. Kate and Gerry want their beloved daughter back and would not overlook any possibility.

Thank you all for your concern time and effort on our behalf. I will continue to pray for that vital piece of information which will lead us to Madeleine God Bless and protect her.

Regards

Madeleine's Grandmother

reply

Hi Sue,

It would really be nice to know that every square inch of Praia Da Luz has been searched from top to bottom. Until this has happened, how can anyone say that everything is being done to locate Madeleine? The search needs to be preformed by concerned parties, not the PJ, GNR or anyone that works for them.

I think Gerry and Kate already know what's in those files...and although I don't think it's any smoking gun, I do think they're telling the truth about CCTV at Tapas. If the PJ can prove statements made by the group are not accurate, they will use this against all of them.

I'm not too concerned about keeping Kate, Gerry and their friends out of jail...I'm deeply concerned for one child that could still be in Praia da Luz...alive.

Brian

--
Brians last phrase says it all!
...Exept that I would not have added ...alive...

Have a nice day, and see you next time:)
Niki

hope4truth said...

Enjoy your breakfast Nancy...

Hi Niki

I cant imagine my parents blogging for me???? Why do they need the PJs files the PJ think they know exactly where Madeleine is?

And if PDL needs searching from top to bottom it is a bit late now (well to find her alive)there was a thorough search by locals and police when she went missing and Kate and Gerry did not look once!

They thought it was a better idea to get on a plane and jet off round the world and dont want to answer questions bloody discusting...

xxx

ratonthebeam said...

Rose can you forward this to Brian.

Aka Rosiepops! Aka Supertroll! Why I didn't see that one months ago, I'll never know. I have been thinking about this all last night. Rosiepops, Supertroll and Auntie Rose are all one and the same.

Anybody looked at Rosie No-Mates pink blog recently? :-)

bath theory said...

A further point about the reconstruction which is not missed by the general public is that these two went several places to try and gather political support USA, Vatican etc

but

Are refusing to go back to the place for a reconstruction whose point is to clarify timelines and question discrepancies.

COME ON MR & MRS HEALY and MRS MCCANN - THIS IS YOUR GRANDDAUGHTER Madeleine that went missing. A 3 yr old defenceless girl. WHEN WILL THE PENNY DROP WITH YOU !!!!

bath theory said...

In other words (IMO) get involved and march your children down to the police station in Rothley and stop this charade NOW !!

There are two other grandchildren at risk here.

hope4truth said...

Morning Rat and Bath

My Mum would be confused as to why I did not want to help her Grandchilds saftey would come way above mine.

dolores said...

Hope
Harris:How about neglect?How about child endangerment?
Jon Corner said "Well I disagree with that.And if you talk to the International Centre for Missing and Exploited Children, they disagree with that,to"

Hope I think a letter needs to be sent to CFMAEC asking if it is true, they believe this about neglect.

hope4truth said...

Dolores

I was thinking when I read it surley no one would think this was not neglect? Unless they were sat right outside the apartment it was nothing like having dnner in your back garden.

Maybe they were mislead but I cant see any reasnoble organisation saying this was not neglect. If they believe this then they are putting more children in danger..

Do they have a website???

xxxx

dolores said...

Murat was not notified to the reconstruction of the alleged kidnap.

Diário de Notícias

José Manuel Oliveira

27/05/2008


Robert Murat's lawyer guaranteed yesterday to the DN that he was not notified to participate in the reconstruction requested by the PJ for next Thursday concerning the events of the night of 3rd of May 2007. Nonetheless his client is available since as an arguido, "he will be obliged to present himself to any steps that he is legally notified of", he added.

"Till now I have no information. By now I would already have been notified, believing in the media that the 29th will be the date for the reconstruction" underlined Francisco Pagarete. And he questioned: "Or it will be on another date? And will a reconstruction take place?"

After insisting that "everything is equal" concerning the situation of Robert Murat and that "the Public Prosecutor is the one who knows what he has to do", the lawyer says that it is not strange that the arguido has not been notified to the reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared from the room where she allegedly sleep with her siblings, "since he was not in any of those places and the PJ knows that very well", he emphasised.

The big doubts are the friends of Kate and Gerry McCann, since as witnesses they are not obliged to be present and they will only return to Portugal if they want but the reconstruction will only be done if they come since their presence is essential. About the opinion showed by the McCanns that consider the reconstruction as a "useless" step, Pagarete prefers "not to comment". Nonetheless he observed: "I doubt that the Public Prosecutor will do any useless acts". To Murat's lawyer the only thing to do is "to wait for the end of the enquiry" reminding that after the extensions of the deadline since January of this year "I don't know how much longer this will last". "It would be pure speculation if I would advance with any date", he said.

dolores said...

Hope,
I found this web address

www.missingkids.com

hope4truth said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ratonthebeam said...

Hope, my old mum would have skinned me alive if she knew I had even thought about leaving her grandchildren by themselves!

hope4truth said...

Oh my lord my copy typing is terrible have deleted the origanal post and spell checked this one LOL x

Dolores

I will try and contact them to ask but the section on the site about child safety (Know the Rules Abduction and Kidnapping Prevention Tips for Parents and Guardians) says...

Rule 2. Never let your children go places alone, and always supervise your young children or make sure there is a trusted adult present to supervise them if you cannot.

Rule 6. Consider installing an alarm system in your home with a monitoring feature. Make sure your home is secured with deadbolt locks, and ensure landscaping around it doesn’t provide places for people to hide. Check other access points such as gates and make sure they have been secured. Consider installing exterior lighting around your home. Make sure your home is fully secured before you go to sleep and items such as ladders have been stored inside. Prepare a plan to vacate our home in case of any emergency. This should include but is not limited to a fire. Have a plan if an intruder tries or gets into your home.

Rule 14. Remember you are your best resource for better safeguarding your family. Do not become complacent about personal security issues.

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/NC94.pdf

Now there are 14 rules on child safety (sorry had to type it as it is on PDF and I cant copy any spelling mistakes are mine) and many other PDF documents from the 3 rules I have copied it does not look to me like they recommend going to the pub and leaving 3 children home alone (or am I missing something the McCann’s can see)...

Thanks for the link xxx

hope4truth said...

Rat

Exactly my Mum would want to know exactly what was going on and if I was not being helpful jetting off to places that are of no use in finding her and leaving my reamining children behind I think she would go off her head...

As I said she loves me but I am old enough to look after myself her Grandchildren have to rely on me...

dolores said...

Hope
I am surprised and disapointed that the CMAEC did not make a statement to the public,that it's not true they said it was within the realms of responsible parenting.
Why are they so reluctant, to challenge pink hot mouth, and the other excusers who say this is ok.

X D

hope4truth said...

Dolores

Maybe because they are American they have not heard what has been said in their name?

I have read through the site and the advise given to protect children is really good. Now it looks to the world that they think it is ok to go off for dinner and leave 3 children 3 and under home alone. Of course there are the other children as well that were left...

Will look for a contact link xxx

dolores said...

Hope
But CNN is an American network and they did not challenge Jon Corner on what he said.Unless of course they did, have and we never heard about it.
X D

hope4truth said...

Dolores

I did not realise that it was a CNN interview...

I have e mailed on their contact us button at the bottom of the page will let you know if I ger a reply x

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Hope,

Don't know if you're still around...my computer had a virus, and now I can't log onto the 3As for some reason. Aaarrggghhh!!!

Is it still Monday morning? Is it Monday morning by proxy because it was Bank Holiday yesterday and we haven't suffered enough???!!!

X LGC (led away by small penguin shaking his head)

marga said...

According to 24 horas the PJ was refused access to the content of the 18 sms exchanged between Gerry and someone else whose phone no is still unknown.

I don't trust this paper, nevertheless it is what is being reported her. if that is true then again there must be someone behind this to hinder teh PJ's work.

Re Kate's mother: if she is not thinking of madeleine's interest tehre are only two possible explanations:
1. she was also brainwashed by her daughter;
2. she is also interested to afford from their situation.

hope4truth said...

LGC

Oh no what will I do now for a laugh???

Have you got someone who can fix it for you???

xxx

hope4truth said...

LGC

Monday morning I dont mind it being Monday as long as Friday is still Friday xxx

Opus is such a good care in the comunity worker xxx

mandarinn said...

Good afternoon!
Marga a special hello to you, how are you doing?
Related to the 24 hours new, if truth , it can be the tapas 1o and the person who give a strong protection to Tapas 9 , IMO to
protecting himself..
LGC
Is the penguin Octopus?maybe he confuse you with herring :)))))

mandarinn said...

*sorry ,Opus

marga said...

Hi Mandarinn,

I also thought of that one that is still a mystery. The 10th.

I was almost leaving. Have to be at work at 15. By car I only need 5 minutes to get there but in teh future I think we all must cycle due to the daily increase of fuel.
have you read the last post in G Digital?

marga said...

Mandarinn,
He explained what he meant in the previous one but it was not necessary because I had already understood what was going on.
He is a great man. I would like to help him more if I could.

mandarinn said...

Marga
i didn't i'm going to chek it
Is nice of you to cycle, good to your health and envyronment

marga said...

Mandarinn,

do it. It's a short post but full of sentiments.
Well, it is what is going to happen in a near future.

I'll read you later. Here in PT people are so fed up of this case that they remain silent. Nothing on TV.

Bye!

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