"We can't even make a consistent prognosis of her fate, including... whether she is alive or dead." UPDATE JANUARY 2010 THE MCCANNS COULD HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH CHILD KIDNAPPING AND TRAFFICKING (Pt Prosecutor giving evidence in an ongoing case in Portugal where the McCanns are demanding ONE MILLION POUNDS IN DAMAGES FROM THE OFFICER WHO INVESTIGATED THEM!!!
18 Jul 2008
PJ INVESTIGATION: INEVITABLE MADELEINE DIED
rocesso: PJ failed to discover the child's corpse Research reports abduction impossible Thirteen months after Madeleine had disappeared, the PJ concludes an investigation which is still marked by uncertainty. The final report shows that today the CM in isolation, does not determine guilt, but leaves new and strong doubts on the thesis presented by the parents of the child English. It describes in detail the steps taken by the researchers - who tried in every way, confirm the hypothesis - and shows that it was theoretically impossible to have occurred. They do not make sense to witnesses, nor how one of the friends says he has seen a man carrying a child around one hour before it was given the warning of the disappearance. It is Janne Tanner, which ensures there surprised the unknown in a street where he also was the father of Maddie and another witness. Both secured after having seen nothing, although the same angle of vision. Tanner, who later made a portrait of the supposed-robot raptor, says that the man took the child in a horizontal position. The size of the window shows that this could only have happened if the child was transported upright. Still, the PJ tried by all means find out who could have taken Maddie. They did dozens of steps to be suspected of sexual abuse. Have been collected on the registered elements that could have been on holiday in the Algarve during that period of time, to see if there any relationship with the small Maddie. They have also investigated the other users of the resort. The PJ entered into more than 400 homes from around the Ocean Club and found nothing. In the window where Kate said that Maddie was abducted were not collected traces of the girl. Only brands that confirmed the mother of the girl's DNA. The final report of PJ shows the details of an investigation that has reached levels never seen. It was investigated a couple allegedly tried to kidnap another child, were past the fine comb the tracks that gave to that Maddie had been sighted in a petrol pump. It operated a crematorium and compared the genetic profile of Madeleine with the body of a child found on the coast of the United States. The PJ investigated a supposed beggar and followed thousands of clues in the most remote places in the world. Debalde. Nothing confirmed this theory of abduction. PJ INVESTIGOU TRANSPORT One of the most lengthy research was to gather and analyse all the information on possible avenues of transport / escape, by land, sea and air. We also explored the images collected by tourists on vacation at the same time, but, again, no decisive found. This information was compiled in an annex all that is beside the process, with another only for those suspected of sexual offences. APJ also has a file of all individuals connected with violent crime, and esmiuçada the lives of those in detail. It was important to determine whether could have any relation with the abduction. MADDIE The final report of PJ does not give suggestions to the prosecutor. But lists the convictions of an investigation that points inevitably to the death of Maddie on May 3 in Praia da Luz MORE OF A TIME The CHORAR The parents of Madeleine never denied that it was a habit the three children being left alone inside the apartment in Praia da Luz while jantavam, as witnessed by several testimonies from officials of the resort, but defended itself saying that every night to visit the children of half in half an hour. The testimony of neighbor Pamela Fenn leaves completely undermine the version of the couple McCann, when assured the PJ have heard Maddie in tears during one hour and 15 minutes two nights before the crime. The British lives in the 1st floor above the apartment occupied by McCann and told investigators that on the night of May 1 last year, to 22.30, heard a child cry, that the sound would be Madeleine. The Judicial Police ensured that the child remained inconsolable one hour and 15 minutes, until their parents arrived. A neighbour heard the noise of the door at 23.45, when Kate and Gerry ended the normal coexistence with friends in Tapas bar - the restaurant of the resort where daily jantavam around the pool. This testimony contradicts the daily routine of visits that the couple was keeping with their children - and McCann is not free from criticism of other British. Yvone Martin, an official of the social security of British holiday in the Light, criticised the behaviour of negligent Kate and Gerry. DOGS FOR DECISIVOS PJ The actions of British dogs specially trained to detect odor of corpses and human blood that was decisive for Kate and Gerry were made defendants. Given the coincidence of the actions of two animals, which sinalizaram the same places and objects related to McCann, the authorities were obliged to admit any involvement of Kate and Gerry in the case of the disappearance of her daughter and provides them to the defendants face elements that could result in their prosecution - as witnesses could not refer to the silence. According cleared the CM, in the final report of investigation prepared by the Judicial Police investigators explain that animals have only signs of detection in places and objects related to the couple McCann: in the apartment where Madeleine disappeared (the fourth of the couple in the room, and be attached to the window side), in the backyard, the vehicle used by the family McCann (rented 24 days after the disappearance of the girl) in two pieces of clothing, Kate and Maddie in the plush - not that Kate dropped in the days following the disappearance . Already in the apartments of friends of McCann, in the village of Luz and on all vehicles used by Robert Murat, the first defendant to be made, nothing was detected by dogs. Faced with such evidence, reinforced by other expert examinations carried out in Portugal and England, PJ questioned Kate and Gerry and represents them as defendants. The animals, race springer spaniel, are widely used in the United Kingdom in search of missing persons or in the search for victims of murder, with positive results. KATE JUSTIFICA ODOR OF DEATH Kate McCann did not deny the fact that two pieces of clothing and plush of their daughter have been flagged by the English dog trained to detect odor of corpses and justified that with his profession. The mother of Madeleine argued that while the medical Health Centre Leicester, has witnessed six cases of death in the days immediately prior to his coming to Portugal on holiday, giving the same justification for the plush, Madeleine, which has accompanied the following months the disappearance of her daughter. 'A SENTI PONTAPÉ RABO NO' (Goncalo Amaral, former coordinator of the process madeleine mccann in the interview TVI) -- You are convinced that Madeleine McCann is dead? Gonçalo Amaral - I have this conviction. It is an interpretation in the light of law based on concrete facts, I have no knowledge of the investigation and carried out in steps. I am convinced that yes, that died there. -- If both parents have been made is because defendants were suspects? -- There were suspects and evidence for the constitution as defendants, moreover, strong elements on two types of crime: concealment of corpses and simulation of crime. That was public and when he left the investigation was in that foot. -- And the crime of abandonment, why parents are not accused? -- The question whether there is through the children were safe or not. It seems obvious, even if their own parents speak of abduction, that there was security. -- Do not be frustrated by no breakthrough in the case? -- Do not feel frustrated by the courts. Ando here for many years and I have great admiration for the judges. I understand how far can have the work of judges. -- Men do not understand why they came though? -- It does not. Respeitei the decision as a professional. There was an understanding between the Portuguese and English police that the girl was dead ed we had to solidify the evidence that existed and proceed to find where is that it could be. -- Do you think the reaction of PJ had to do with the politicization of the case? -- I think there was more political than police. But inside the ground did our best and never felt any defence. -- He felt the pressure of politics? -- I felt was a kick in the tail on 2 October. -- Do you think the normal case be shelved? -- I am not shocked. RECUARAM ENGLISH IN EXAMS It was the most remarkable volte-face in research. The first tests made by the English laboratory, regarded as pioneer in the analysis of trace organic, gave account of the likelihood of waste collected in the car of McCann be compatible with the genetic profile of Madeleine. Months later - after the Judicial Police already has moved to form accused of parents, according to the final report only on evidence that they hid the corpse of the child English - the laboratory was correct to informaçãoinicial. After all, the examinations to vestígiosrecolhidos naRenaultScénic rented by the couple were not conclusive and was not even possible to ascertain the quality of the material, or whether tratavade bodily fluid or a trace of blood. This change science, not yet completely settled, the investigation eventually lead to a dead end. The use of dogs to detect odors from cadaver or waste of blood is not validated in the Portuguese legal system was necessary and scientifically corroborate the markings canine. In addition, the option of the Judicial Police for submission of tests for England had its genesis in a matter of credibility. The researchers did not want that the results could be challenged by the English, then accepting that the remains were examined there. The IDA ENGLAND ACABOU BY SE REVELAR INÚTIL In April this year, Paulo Rebelo and two of the researchers of the process in which they tried to understand the contours of the disappearance of Madeleine Leicester were now investigating the English holiday on the beach of Light with the couple McCann. It is known now by the final report that nothing conclusive was found of such interrogations. The PJ out there who maintained close collaboration with local police, but anticipates that the testimony brought nothing new. The friends of McCann confined themselves to confirm what had already said in previous interrogations and PJ came out empty-handed this city north of London. CHANGE PauloRebelo, new leader of the research after the departure of Gonçalo Amaral, was repeatedly in the apartment of the Ocean Club, where they were collected the most varied traces. He was also in England, where witnesses heard. FIGURES 443 interrogations door to door in the Ocean Club apartments, made by PJ, are part of a total two million steps, formal and informal, carried out in research. 134 officials of the resort were heard by the inspectors in the days after the crime. The PJ also heard the 12 soldiers who passed by the GNR apartment the night of May 3. 130 elements police and Civil Protection were involved in the first 24 hours of searching. The following day the figure rose to 300. 188 boxes of trash were issued to fine comb in Praia da Luz, Lagos, in an attempt to find the body of Madeleine. 30 square kilometres is the area that the searches were extended to all land forces in the first days, in addition to the Maritime Police. NOTES 3 May 2007: DESAPARECE Between 21.05 and 22.00, Madeleine Beth McCann, of three years, disappeared from the apartment of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz 17.30 only after the parents contacted with girl. 14 May: FIRST SUSPEITO The British Robert Murat is questioned and is accused. The PJ has made home visits and telephone tapping, but never managed to relate it with the crime being investigated. 4 IN AUGUST: BLOOD Two sniffer dogs, from England, detect odor of corpses and traces of blood in the apartment, in the backyard, in clothes from Kate. 11 OF AUGUST: MORTA One hundred days after the disappearance of Madeleine, and after searches with dogs in England, researchers admit publicly that the child may be dead. 7 DE SETEMEBTO: defendants Based on the performance of the team cinotécnica, Kate and Gerry McCann are again questioned by the Judicial and they also made defendants. 29 NOVEMBER: TEST OF DNA Technical Portuguese and English shall meet at the headquarters of Leicestershire Police to discuss the results of DNA tests on traces collected in the investigation. 20 January 2008: PORTRAIT The couple McCann discloses a portrait-robot on the basis of testimony. Later turned out to the man in question was not involved in the crime. VESTÍGIOS: DELAY The remains of the vehicle used by McCann were collected in August 2007. The results of the examinations should only take a few weeks. IML: TESTS IN PORTUGAL The first traces collected by the investigation were sent to the IML. The tests were not conclusive and also not helped the clarification.
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«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 976 Newer› Newest»I have a busy day ahead so Good Night to you all.
You're welcome, ICTOAN.
Sleep tight. :-)
Ouch, in today's Correio da Manhã there is a little preview of some aspects of Amaral's book. CdM says that the book states: 'McCanns simulated abduction'.
ICTOAN and DI,
still we all have the wonderful promise to meet our beloved ones again and to tell them the things we didn't in this world's system(Rev.21:1-4).
CdM has got today the first excerpt of Amaral's book. They are going to print more. In this one there is the story about that conversation between Payne and G in Maiorca.
It will be interesting if they now react to this story.
Won't be around much until the evening as my step-daughter, who lives in France, is dropping in to see me with her companion and children (whom I regard as my grandchildren).
I haven't seen them since February so I'm hoping that their visit cheers me up.
carlymichelle posted this on 3A this morning.
God’s Lent Child
I’ll lend you for a little while,
A child of mine, God said
For you to love the while she lives,
And mourn for when shes dead.
It may be six or seven days
Or forty two or three,
But will you, till I call her back,
Take care of her for me?
She’ll bring charms to gladden you
And (should her stay be brief)
You’ll have her memories
As solace for your grief.
I cannot promise she will stay
Since all from earth return
But there are lessons taught below
I want this child to learn.
I‘ve looked this whole world over
In my search for teachers true,
And from the things that crowd lifes lanes
I have chosen you.
Now will you give her all your love
Nor think the labour vain?
Nor hate me when I come to take
This lent child back again?
I will do that I heard them say,
Dear Lord, Thy will be done,
For all the joys this child will bring
The risk of grief well run.
We will shelter her with tenderness
We’ll love her while we may
And for the happiness we’ve known
Forever grateful stay.
But should the angels call for her
Much sooner than we planned
We’ll brave the bitter grief that comes
And try to understand.
Author Unknown
* interesting to see
The title is again that she died in the apartment.
This is not new for me as I have known it since December but is interesting to read all the things he tells to support his position about this.I only wish him, my dear friend strength and courage to face all the pressure and reactions to his revelations.
Morning ICTOAN!
Beautiful poem as a tribute to Maddie.
_____________
We’ll brave the bitter grief that comes
And try to understand.
We all have the duty to find the truth and I'm proud of the PJ that won't give up. God bless them.
ICTOAN,
have a nice day!
In JN:
Almeida Rodrigues argues that while the case is now closed, the Judicial Police "will follow all the clues and go to the end of the World, if necessary." "But we will do it with propriety, discretion and out of the media spotlight," he adds. "Obviously the case Madeleine McCann vai not fall into oblivion," he insists."
http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19137
Just a quickie while I'm waiting.
I was horrified by the following story but I'm sure Mum21 would approve.
The picture that shames Italy
http://www.independent.co.uk/
news/world/europe/the-picture
-that-shames-italy-873743.html
http://proud-of-the-pj.blogspot.com/2008/07/fasten-your-seatbelts.html
Ouch, they must be nervous.
Even Supertroll posted on my blog! lololol
Hiya all
I am absolutely delighted to read the PJ will continue with this investigation. I think there was an acceptance that making the McCanns arguidos at the stage they did was unfortunate because of the reaction from the McCanns media campaign. This caused the PJ an awful lot of unnecessar work, investigating sightings of Madeleine which were quite blatantly false. Now they can continue without the glare of publicity and the not inconsiderable interference of Kate and Gerry McCann who seek to impede Justice for their little girl, who I am convinced did die in that apartment, as both British and Portuguese officers insist. I also believe she was mercilessly thrown into the sea to destroy the evidence. The McCanns are truly wicked parents and will be brought to justice. Neither the Portuguese or British Police intend to let us down on wanting justice for this dear little victim of such wickedness.
Interesting the revelations about the conversation. As you say, if they do not respond then we can be sure it is true, if they respond, it still may be true! After all they did kill Madeleine but extracted a settlement out of Express. The thing is in Portugal it is much more difficult to sue a newspaper, my dear Amiga Claudia tells me they must prove the paper acted in a criminal way and would have to go to court. We know the McCanns start court actions but never turn up!
I am going away for a few days tonight to spend time with a dear old friend in Bristol. Will probably be back Sunday.
Viv x
Heei VIV, hun
Have some nice days off. We`ll take care of the Fort
1 - Apartment 5A, of the resort ‘Ocean Club’, place from where the child disappeared.
- cadaver odour dog:
*in the couple’s bedroom, in a corner, close to the wardrobe;
*in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment;
- blood dog:
* in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment (exactly as it was signalled by the cadaver odour dog);
7 – In the vehicle used by the MCCANN family
- cadaver odour dog:
* signalled the key of the vehicle;
- blood dog:
* signalled the key of the vehicle;
* signalled the interior of the vehicle’s boot;
Now im really confused, these are the findings of the dogs according to the pj files, why have we been led all along by various media outlets to believe that the scent of death was detected in the hire car??
ICTOAN
after having dinner yesterday the TV was on in the sitting room where my daughter (14) was watching the news. SIC TV station showed some pictures of the two dead children on the beach covered with towels while people were sunbathing as if there were no cadavers lying there only a few meters from them. She clled us to watch the images she was so revolted that she said those people should be identified to be taught on human rights.
unfortunately those images don't shame only Italy but the whole world. They show how many people really are: selfish and without substance.
Marga, that footage made me cry like a child.
That is the world humans are creating. But those children were not blonde, blue eyed and white skinned. They were just two little gipsy girls who disturbed people on the beach when they asked for money.That is why people continued sun bathing while they were lying dead on the beach.
Viv, have fun!
Hiya Eco
Thanks for that Hun!
Remember people can start a new thread. When there is a great new article from Pt it may be good if someone puts this on a new thread so it is easier to refer to than trying to find in 600 posts!
I am not only busy with preparing to go away we are having to completely strip rooms ready for plasterers to start and it is hard work, fortunately Luke does most of it!
Viv x
Viv,
enjoy your stay in Bristol:-)
I am very shocked about Italy and those poor little children. I wonder why the Police did not just clear the beach, this would certainly have happened in UK!
It does show again there are so many selfish people who lack empathy and respect for human life.
Viv x
Cláudia,
gente vazia.
Atardi,
if you are reading, I miss your contribution here.
Hugs:-)
Cláudia,
tomorrow Gonçalo is going to be very busy on different TV stations at different hours.
I'm so glad ARodrigues has assured the PJ "will go till the end of the world" in this case. What a beautiful thing to be said, especially because we do know it is true unlike similar sentences that sound sooo fake!
Isis,
but wasn't the cadaver odour also detected in the hire car?
Marga, Gonçalo is doing alone what should have been made and said by the Portuguese government, the Minster of Justice and the previous Head of the Polícia Judiciária.
As for the inestigation, we'll see.
Marga, i thought so also but according to the post it was the blood dog that alerted to the car. Very confused.
Thanks Marga
Well it is quite fantastic really!
Goncalo has had to put up with non-stop abuse, simply for pointing out Kate and Gerry killed Madeleine. He has had to endure their endless campaigns and abuse on the internet, tv, press etc.
Now he is going to give them a taste of their own medicine and they have to face the truth. Clarence makes veiled threats against him. He knows what he is doing, a fellow law graduate. Getting that degree at least teaches us to figure the odds and respect human life. That is precisely what he is doing.
Good luck to Goncalo and the cause for the truth and for justice!
Viv x
If there was no death scent in the hire car, unlike the apartment, and only blood, that leads me to believe, like I had said before, that there never was a body in the hire car. Probably just materials or tools who had been in contact with it, i-e the blood. Which, to be honest, is more believable than a body in the car 25 days later.
Ok. It was in the key of the vehicle.
Does this mean that she might not have been there? It is possible.
IMO the most credible possibility is that the key got that scent from a piece of clothing.It was transferred.
Sorry,
My last post was addressed to Isis.
Marga, the allegation that Madeleine's body had been in the car 25 days after her 'death' was mostly from a certain press that wanted to discredit the death theory. I never thought that was believable. 25 days later? I don't see it. But I find it possible that materials, clothes or tools being hidden there.
Claudia, im totally confused now because i have read the complete report, it says only the blood dog alerted to the vehicle, then at the end of the report it states that out of the ten cars tested the only one both dogs alerted to was the mccanns hire car.... so it contradicting itselfNow the question related to the performance of the British dogs will be covered, along with the consequent quality assumed by the parents of MADELEINE, once again with the ability to revisit the description later in the report.
In this way, from pages 1989 and following, one can read the full report by MARK HARRISON, whose specialty is the search for missing people or homicide victims, including catastrophe scenarios. He provided the use of canines, specialized in the detection of vestiges of human blood and human cadaver odor.
This is an inspection technique commonly used in the United Kingdom, frequently with positive results, consisting of the utilization of two especially trained dogs.
One of the dogs is trained to detect cadaver odor and the other to detect vestiges of human blood, with existing knowledge that their prior usage had resulted in significant results, principally in the detection of vestiges, which had then been, later, confirmed in the laboratory.
After a positive joint meeting with the British police, it was decided to use this capability and a large number of objects and locations were examined, with these diligences being recorded in films which are included in the documentation (appendix III).
In some of these locations and objects, the animals exhibited the behaviour of identification and “signaling”, including:
pages 37 and 38 - to follow
1 - Apartment 5A, of the resort ‘Ocean Club’, place from where the child disappeared.
- cadaver odour dog:
*in the couple’s bedroom, in a corner, close to the wardrobe;
*in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment;
- blood dog:
* in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment (exactly as it was signalled by the cadaver odour dog);
2 – Area of the backyard, close to the apartment 5A:
- cadaver odour dog:
* in a flowerbed, commented by the dog handler the lightness of the scent detected;
3 – Apartments where the rest of the elements of the group stayed
* NOTHING was detected by any of the dogs;
4 – House of the MCCANNs at the date of the inspection [second apartment]
* NOTHING at the house, was detected by any of the dogs;
5 - In the area of Vila da Luz
* NOTHING was detected by any of the dogs;
6 – In the clothes and belongings of the Family MCCANN
- cadaver odour dog:
* in two pieces of clothing belonging to KATE HEALY
* in a piece of clothing of the minor MADELEINE
* in the plush toy, possibly belonging to MADELEINE (it was detected cadaver odour, when the plush was inside the residence – at the date occupied by the family)
7 – In the vehicle used by the MCCANN family
- cadaver odour dog:
* signalled the key of the vehicle;
- blood dog:
* signalled the key of the vehicle;
* signalled the interior of the vehicle’s boot;
8 – In the vehicle used by a friend of the family, who stayed in the same resort, matching some of the holiday days.
pages 39 and 40
* NOTHING was detected by either dog;
9. In all the vehicles that were used by arguido ROBERT MURAT and persons that are close to him;
* NOTHING was detected by either dog.
(in a total of ten vehicles, the cadaver odour dog and the blood odour dog only signaled the vehicle that belonged to the MCCANN family, which was rented on the 27th of May).....have a look..............
Cláudia,
I agree.
It's quite impossible she had beeb transported in the car.
Hi all
Maybe this was the problem with the "inconclusive" tests. There was initially an assumption the body had been transported in the hire car but this was wrong.
I entirely agree with Claudia, transporting the body in that vehicle three weeks later never did make sense. By that stage it was in the sea.
Whenever police are attempting to find out what happened, they have to develop hypotheses and then investigate them to see whether they are right. Inevitably in a complex case, they are going to go down the wrong alley sometimes.
What seems clear to me is they have irrefutably evidence in the apartment that Maddie died there. They also seem to have a trail going to the beach. We know Gerry has contacts, I am afraid it looks like she was taken away by boat.
We still do not know who texted Gerry 14 times the day before Maddie went. He also texted 4 times the day after - job done?
Why is it Gerry will not release details of these texts? I think the answer to that is obvious. So maybe we need to look at people who were closely on the scene helping the McCanns including Clarence Mitchell and Jon Corner. I am not pointing the finger, just wondering..Hence again this blog needs to be private!
Viv x
Isis, I think that may be a linguistic question. Something about the translation, most likely.
* been
Well, my first day to enjoy my "official" holidays. going to take a nap and relax.
Read you all later.
Isis,
really nice to read you here again.
BBFN
Thanks Marga, Claudia im going to soak my head in a bucket im so confused!!!!!!!!!!!
Isis, don't be. There is footage of all the diligencies done with the dogs. And that footage has been shown to Kate and Gerry.
Viv, agree with you 100% about this blog being private, good call. Now i am really off to soak my head in a bucket!
Again this is just me posting my thoughts out loud and not suggesting they are fact.
But, I think we do need to remember, Madeleine was getting to a very lucid age where she could tell a very clear story. Had she come back home from Portugal she would then have been going to school. School teachers very frequently discover serious child abuse. I do not think Maddie had any chances to come back at all.
Viv x
Isis,
if she died in the apartment, then the body was disposed of on the same day IMO.
Really off.
Claudia, i get you now, thanks. I remember the footage now of the dogs . Again thanks.
I must say:
Even for a "hardboiled" person like me, this is getting HOT - HOTTER - HOTTEST.
There is a thread at the 3arguios, where one is asking:
"Is the story now going to be that Madeleine died whilst being abused?. . . . ."
Answer: Sorry but it's at the front of my mind. What makes ALL the tapas 9 keep quiet? Why must the body NOT be found?
Answer: It's despicable I know but many mothers turn a blind eye to their child's abuse and some are actively involved. There are many recorded cases, Fred & Rosemary West weren't unique by a long way.
Answer: I think the poster is insinuating that based on publicly available information printed in todays newspapers in Portugal, a retired Portuguese Police detective initially in charge of the investigation on the Madeleine McCann disappearance stated in his book that one of the T7 (Mr Payne) was accused by two witnesses in the UK of some out of the ordinary behaviours when it came to children. The same detective also claims that this information was held back for 6 months by Leicestershire police.
Good afternoon folks.
Sorry for this but I am feeling completely broken from some news I have had today. Viv, if you read this, is there anything I can do legally? :
I have just heard from my daughter's boyfreind this morning. My two eldest, one is 16, the other is 15, have gone to Florida with their woman-beating father and their step-mum, the wicked witch of the East. The pair of them are planning to emigrate to Florida and have asked my kids when they got there, if they would like to join them.
No thought to discuss it with me, thier primary carer who has loved and nurtured them and struggled, often as a single parent. The boyfreind said that they are seriously considering it [my kids]. I am heartbroken. I do realise that my son will be 18 by the time that they go and there's nothing I can do. OMG this is so painful. I have never told my children what their father did to me and the step-mum has made my daughter's life a misery with her emotional blackmail and bullying. Ryan is immune beacuse she only sees Laura as a threat. (the kids dad never loved Ryan like he did Laura and the witch has two daughters)
What should I do? I can't even talk to them or cuddle them, they are thousands of miles away. Viv, is there any point in me seeing a solicitor? Now that I am a single parent again I will get legal aid. I feel so lost.
Just to give you an idea as to what they are like, they told Laura (my daughter) that she couldn't see her boyfriend because he is the son of a window cleaner. This coming from a salesman and an estate agent. I have fed and put her boyfreind up for weeks because they have been inseperable (obviously in separate beds) and now the boyfreind is heartbroken too and I'm trying to console him whilst trying to find a way to cope with the news.
Sorry again. I just need help.
Dylan, I certainly can't help you. But what I do know is that sometimes young people do very foolish things, typical of their age. But only after doing those foolish things do they understand how foolish they are.
I wish you all the luck in the world.
Hiya Dillie
You do need help very urgently, your children are still minors.
Go to this link and find a solicitor in your area specialising in family law and also preferably on the child care panel.
I am really sorry about the terrible situation you are in but there are some brilliant solicitors who can help you.
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/specialise.law#acredsearch
another search engine to find a family lawyer in your area:
http://www.resolution.org.uk/memberSearch.asp?page_id=52
Dyl, try us emigration, whos passport are they on ? or do they have their own?
Thank you Viv, Claudia and Isis.
I already have a lawyer but I will look at your link as well.
Isis, they have their own passports but they never bring them home as their dad insists on keepinmg them.
Viv, that's what I thought. They are still minors and their father has no right to ask them to emigrate without speeking to me. What gets me is they waited to get them abroad, woo them with the delights of Florida (personally I would rather pull my own toenails out than go there unless it is the Everglades), splash loads of cash and then reel them in, knowing I can't do or say anything to them.
Going to call my solicitor now.
Just called and both the solicitor and PA are out of the office. Left a message for him to call me back.
Dyl, I hope it all works out for you and the kids, they sure do mad things when they are teens no matter how we love and nurture them. I was at work not so long ago and got a call from my OH to say that my 14 year old daughter had arrived home at 10pm off her head drunk. I didnt come home as i thought it was safer for her if i didnt. Keep us updated and i really really do hope that the situation is resolved xxx.
Hi all,
Dylan,
I just popped on for a quick update and saw your post. Sending you an e-hug and wishing you strength to cope with this situation.
Zodiac x
Isis, lol! I feel a bit cheered from the support, thank you. x
I'm meeting my freind at 6pm today which will help and my parents have been amazing.
On the same note, Laura decided to lose her virginity at 14. I was shocked but took her to councilling, the docs etc, etc, gave her lots of love and support and talked to her for hours about what it actually meant to have done that without being angry. In the end the boyfreind dumped her (just I thought as I used to teach him and I warned her about him) and it was me who had to pick up the pieces and wipe away the tears. Not her father. I am sure they will both realise who really loves them. I hope they do. If Ryan decides to take a year out before he does his med degree that's fine by me. I just won't put up with the world's second gruesome twosome taking them away from me when I know they won't get the love and support that they get here.
Viv, my solicitor has been really good so far. Elly's dad took me to court under the guise of parental responsibility. A law that is his right by default. Thank god I took my solicitor as he tried to apply for half and half time with elly in court and my solicitor practically buried his ;)
Can't wait for 6pm when i can go and have a drink with my friend. Please excuse me on this one night only when I may re-appear being slightly squiffy!
PS The gruesome twosome #2 booked the holiday so that my children won't be with me for my 40th on the 31st this month. How nasty. I wonder if the "wonder couple" might be in Florida at the same time??? - same ethics and non-moral behaviour!
xx
Zodiac - heart felt thanks! e-hug accepted and enjoyed. Bless you! xx
Dylan
I am so sorry to hear your news.
All my best wishes go with you and my hope that the situation will resolve itself in your favour.
ICTOAN, thanks. I am touched by all of the comments. Sometimes I think what a world it is that we live in when cyber friends are considered friends. Today I am thanking my lucky stars that I have you all as my cyber friends and not only that, I consider you guys as true friends. And the pros think we are all heartless;)
Honestly guys, you have all really been such a great help. I feel stronger already. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dyl, you go and enjoy your drink with your pal, you need it, never mind if you are a bit "squiffy" i like squiffy !! The kids will see the light and realise where they have it good.
Brunty reporting from Lisbon with book in hand.
Brunty giving details of Amarals book now!
Amaral accuses Gordon Brown of interfering in the investigation during the Lisbon Treaty trip..
He says british police werent cooperative over backgrounds of McCanns and T7
Police didnt provide medical records of Maddie
He couldnt understand how Tanner could have given detail of bundleman in the dark and from where she was standing, also that Gerry was there and didnt see anything
Apparantly noone checked a member of the T7 that he brought to the attn of the british police...I am assuming he means Payne
and lastly
He questions why the Macs needed the services of a PR man straightaway, to protect their image..they were more concerned about themselves than what had happened to their daughter Madeleine.
Dyl,
how many children have you got?
Two girls and a boy?And what ages?
Eco,
no word about Payne?
Marga
Not yes, as far as I know. It might be to hot.
Dilly
I am very relieved to hear you already have a very competent solicitor who also knows the facts of the case which is a big help!
My eldest son when aged 14 was persuaded the grass was greener in exactly the same way, but now his Dad and step mom from hell are in Turkey Martin lives just one mile from me and only wants his mom. He is now 34! Children will always remember, in the end, the parent who has been really good to them.
Best of luck!
Luv Viv xxxx
Pretty good sentences for another couple of really rotten parents who thought money was much more important than their own children! Poor Mark 'it crushed my world' x
DARWINS JAILED FOR 13 YEARS FOR BACK-FROM-DEAD SCAM
GUILTY: John and Anne Darwin
Wednesday July 23,2008
By Nicola McCafferty for express.co.uk Have your say(2)
JOHN and Anne Darwin have been jailed for 13 years today after being found guilty of fraud by swindling £250,000 in an insurance scam by faking his death.
The 56-year-old wife was convicted by a jury at Teesside Crown Court of six counts of fraud and nine of money laundering today, while her husband admitted fraud at an earlier hearing.
Anne Darwin received six and a half years in jail.
John got six years and three months.
Mr Justice Wilkie said the “real victims” of the couple were their sons - who were gave evidence against their mother during the trial.
He told the couple: “Although the sums involved are not as high as some reported cases, the duration of the offending, its multi-faceted nature and in particular the grief inflicted over the years to those who in truth were the real victims, your own sons, whose lives you crushed, make this a case which merits a particularly severe sentence."
BETRAYED: Sons Anthony (left) and Mark (right) Darwin
Anne Darwin, 56, duped her two sons and conned insurance and pension companies into believing her husband had died in a canoeing accident.
She later admitted to being an accomplice in his plot to scam insurance companies and help them out of financial ruin, but said she had been forced to lie for him.
Earlier today the jury at Teesside Crown Court rejected Anne Darwin's defence and convicted her of six counts of fraud and nine of money laundering after just a seven day trial.
I couldn’t believe the fact she knew he was alive all this time and I had been lied to for God knows how long
Mark Darwin
The couple's sons Mark and Anthony Darwin - who both gave evidence against their mother during the trial - sat in the public gallery while their mother's verdict was read out.
Mark Darwin, 32, had earlier told the court: “It crushed my world.”
Dyl,
if they are older than 15 they will realise and evaluate you and their father.
Today is a special one re the release of Amaral's book whose title is The truth..... That is what counts in our lives. the truth in everything we do and say. If you are a true person , you don't have to fear anything. Back in October this was also my advice to G and this gave him a special strength to go in the right path. at the same time the truth sets you free. What I want to say with this is that you should sit down with your children and talk with them about the things that worry you. tell them about their father behaviour while you were married and why you are so troubled by now with this news.
Make it clear that people are ´not perfect and we all have our negative tendencies and that you forgive everything that happened in the past. I'm sure they will understand you and think by their own. Even if they decide to go to the USA that will be their choice but at the same time they will be aware of everything and will judge by themselves. On the other hand don't forget people can change. he can be another person by now.
you will be relieved to share your feelings and your fears with the ones you love the most.
Hugs:-)
Ecolab said...
Marga
Not yes, as far as I know. It might be to hot.
Wednesday, 23 July 2008 17:16:00 o'clock BST
_______________________
That subject is a TABOO to the English press and makes you wonder it is so.
Of course you cannot have your say on the Daily Express, where Clarence glibly comments "legal action is not a priority right now". Well that is odd given several months ago, it was. We have not forgotten how you threatened to sue the PJ for £1M Clarence, but now the evidence is unearthed could it be they were seeking to find Maddie after all (dead or alive). And could it be they were not telling any lies. Of course it is not libel to speak the truth! Things look grim for Mr Payne! I am sure it is "agony" for him too!!
MCCANN AGONY OVER LEAKED FILE
Madeleine: Anguish
Wednesday July 23,2008
By Martin Evans KATE and Gerry McCann faced further anguish last night after learning that the final police report into their daughter’s disappearance had been leaked to a Portuguese newspaper.
Just hours after they were officially cleared of any involvement and prosecutors announced they were shelving the case, intimate details about the investigation surfaced on the website of the publication Expresso.
The McCanns’ legal team had been hoping to get access to the official police files within days in order to ascertain whether there were any leads which deserved further examination.
But that was pre-empted when the 57 page report appeared on the Portuguese newspaper’s website, detailing how the police set about investigating Madeleine’s disappearance.
The report contained many of the theories and claims which led to the couple being declared arguidos last September, but which were subsequently dismissed or discounted.
The McCanns’ official spokesman Clarence Mitchell declared his dismay at the apparent leaking of yet another police document and questioned the timing, coming just a day after Kate and Gerry were finally cleared.
He said: “As always we simply will not comment on anything that appears to be from the usual anonymous sources. If any elements of the police report are being placed online, that would not only be wrong, you have to ask yourself who is behind it and why.
“Gerry and Kate’s lawyers in Portugal will be applying formally for access to the complete file and they will be analysing everything in it in their own time without making elements public at this stage.”
According to the document – which purports to be a summary of the final police report handed to prosecutors at the beginning of the month – detectives worked on three main theories about what had happened to Madeleine after she disappeared from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3 last year.
The first line of inquiry examined whether the three-year-old had been kidnapped by a paedophile or child trafficker. The second focused on whether she had been abducted from the apartment and then murdered. And the final theory was that she had died accidentally and her corpse had been hidden.
The report detailed many of the leads Portuguese detectives followed up in the months following Madeleine’s disappearance, including those gleaned from information provided by members of the public.
According to the document, police interviewed hundreds of holidaymakers, staff at the Ocean Club resort and made house-to-house inquiries at almost 450 properties in and around Praia da Luz.
While some of the information was followed up, much was discounted as useless. Detailing how the police came to declare Kate and Gerry official suspects in the investigation, the report said it followed forensic tests and searches with British-based sniffer dogs.
But when the final results, provided by the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham, were issued no match to any particular person could be made.
The results also failed to establish categorically whether it was blood or another type of body fluid which had been identified. The report also said extensive investigations found no evidence at all linking Praia da Luz resident Robert Murat, the first arguido in the case, to Madeleine’s disappearance.
Mr Murat, 34, an Anglo-Portuguese property consultant, also had his suspect status lifted yesterday. The document concluded that despite all detectives’ efforts it was not possible to reach a “concrete and objective” conclusion about the truth of what happened to Madeleine. The McCanns have not ruled out legal action against the Portuguese police over the way they handled the investigation.
Mr Mitchell said: “It’s going to be a long, slow process, both for the lawyers in examining the volumes and for Kate and Gerry to be informed of their contents and whether there’s any need for legal redress.
“The priority has always been finding Madeleine, so the investigative work is first and foremost.
“If there are any leads from the files, for instance new sightings, that’s what the private investigators will focus on in the first instance.
“The question of legal action remains an option but that is not the priority right now. It is something Kate and Gerry will take advice on from the British and Portuguese lawyers.”
The priority has always been finding Madeleine
The McCanns’ official spokesman Clarence Mitchell
Hi Dyl
I'm so sorry to hear this. You know, with SA's new Children's Act here the law is skewed towards the child, probably more so than anywhere else in the world. Any child aged 14 or over may make their own decision regarding which parent they wish to live with, regardless of the original order that was made regarding custody. In fact it is possible for children of that age to 'divorce BOTH their parents if the courts agree that this would be in the interests of a minor child! In many cases this is probably a good thing. There is nothing good about forcing an unhappy child to stay with a parent they would not wish to live with.
In your case it seems there is more to it than that. Even with the limited information you provided there is a big red flag regarding your ex. ABUSER. If that is true there should be no court that would not rule in your favour. Your kids may be attracted by sun, sand and your ex flashing the cash, but they always see the light in the end. All the best!!!
Lotsa love, J.
PS: 40! Oh dear!! :-))
Yippeeee!!!
Viv's going away! We can copy and paste as much as we like! Extend your holiday if you like Viv. I hear Bristol is very pleasant at this time of the year :-))
Only kidding, have fun and travel safely.
Off to eat out, may BBL.
Hi Viv,
If you haven't already gone, hope you have a lovely time!
I emailed you earlier with a request from someone else...
Hello everyone!
'The McCanns’ official spokesman Clarence Mitchell declared his dismay at the apparent leaking of yet another police document and questioned the timing, coming just a day after Kate and Gerry were finally cleared.'
How can this be considered as a leaked document. The Secrecy Law was lifted therefore was able to become public knowledge. Right?
Zodiac, tecnhically the secrecy will only be lifted around the middle of August. However, weren't they the ones who wanted it all out in the open? Well, they got it. And yes, that document would be public sooner or later. I wonder if the secrecy wasn't a lot more comfortable... :-)
“The Truth of the Lie”: Release of Gonçalo Amaral’s Book on the Maddie Case with Hot Revelations
The book “The truth of the Lie ”;, which promises controversial revelations on the Maddie case, is launched tomorrow. The SIC reveals today the first excerpts. The work has the signature of the man who directed great part of the investigations but ended up being removed. The lawyer of the couple McCann, Rogério Alves, said to the SIC that he does not comment fiction.
Gonçalo Amaral says that he wants “to put back the good name that was vilified in the public domain&”; without the Judicial Police allowing his own defence.
In the first pages of the work, the author highlights since then the unusual treatment given to the couple McCann, which in the words of the inspector were treated with ”;tweezers”;.
Much was spoken also about the attitudes of Gerry and Kate McCann and Gonçalo Amaral reports several situations in which he found the coldness of the couple strange facing the tension of the investigations.
In one of the situations the inspector speaks about the mother of the child, Kate, who before the possibility to find the daughter appears bothered with the speed reached by the car of the police. [This was after a new information of a possible sighting of Madeleine was given to the police, the mother instead of being anxious looked annoyed with the entire situation]
In another case it was the father who aroused the attention of the inspectors: in the middle of a negotiation, with a possible kidnapper, the doctor “was sucking casually one lollipop while reading banalities in sites of the Internet and talking about rugby and football with one of the English police officers.”
Gonçalo Amaral believes that ”;Madeleine died in the apartment 5A of the Ocean Clube, on the 3rd of May of 2007, but he does not discard the hypothesis of having been accidental”;.
Contacted by SIC, Rogério Alves, he refused to comment on the book by Gonçalo Amaral. “While lawyer of the family McCann, I only comment reality, I do not comment fiction”;, said the lawyer.
Excerpts of the book “The Truth of the Lie ”;
P. 11
“This book appears out of the necessity that I felt of putting back my good name that was vilified in the public domain without the PJ has allowing me to stand up for myself ”.
P. 19
“The mistake was that we treated the couple 'with tweezers'. They were treated with privileges. It is that, that is not normal”.
P. 26
“It seems that the Judiciary Police is a ‘stepmother’ [Portuguese expression, meaning the PJ as an institution was never good to its officers] with its servants, it never knew how to defend them ”.
P. 38
“It was pertinent to know if Madeleine was the biological daughter of the couple McCann, the information requested does not arrive, but the English ambassador is already arriving. It is not normal this preoccupation of the English diplomacy ”.
P. 48
“A hand print was found in the balcony window at the rear [of the apartment]. It was corresponding to one of the police elements ”. (protocol of proceedings is lacking)
P. 54
Sightings:
“Kate appears bored because of having being obliged to return and bothered with the speed reached by the police car We found strange that she didn’t show signs of hope with the possibility of the girl being recovered ”.
P. 67
“The PJ should have had persons to analyse all the news, being preoccupied by what the parents and friends would say to the public opinion. What did not happen ”.
P. 68
“It is not usual that common citizens, to whom a daughter just had disappeared, nominate press advisers”
P. 71
“The English service secret already had, after the facts, the couple and the group of friends under surveillance. If that was right such an information was never accessed by the Portuguese police”
P. 81
“The medical registries (of Madeleine) requested with insistence were not given to us, due to great difficulties raised in England”.
P. 92
Attempt of extortion
"Gerry McCann was sucking casually one lollipop while he was reading banalities in sites of the Internet and was talking about rugby and football with one of the English police officers.”
Sentence of the English police officers “Do not forget that he starts cutting people in half shortly afterwards of the breakfast”.
P. 165
“There were signs of death in the apartment. It was concluded that that cadaver odour could only came from Madeleine McCann”.
P. 168
“The toy had cadaver odour”
P. 214
Conclusions
“Madeleine died in the apartment 5 A on the 3rd of May of 2007
A simulation of kidnapping took place
Kate and Gerry are suspected of corpse's occultation [hiding the cadaver]
The death might have happened as a result of an accident
There are signs of negligence in the safe keeping and security of the children”
Source:SIC
Claudia,
'However, weren't they the ones who wanted it all out in the open?'
That is what I thought also from viewing them in interviews and reading press reports about them for the past 14 months. I am particulary waiting to hear them explain how they know it was an abduction. Wonder how long I will be waiting. Did they think the documents would be hand delivered to them and they could pick and choose what the public could be privy to, surely not. What's wrong with this from GA's book:
In another case it was the father who aroused the attention of the inspectors: in the middle of a negotiation, with a possible kidnapper, the doctor “was sucking casually one lollipop while reading banalities in sites of the Internet and talking about rugby and football with one of the English police officers.”
BBFN
Well I could not resist one quick peep before I leave, Doc ROFPMSL:-))))))
Claudia: fascinating. I am thinking the Serious Organised Crime AGency got a handle on this due to sexual abuse of children. Why did Maddie keep crying Daddy Daddy? I know there is an innocent explanation for this, she has a cold unloving mother but...
must go!
Luv Viv x
PS I will miss you all:-))))))
Have fun, Viv! :-)
Dylan , I am sorry to hear your issue re children but I am one who feels that you have to accept their decision and support it. If you fight their wishes it will sow the seed for conflict down the line. Plus if you can somehow find a way of telling them the naked truth about the father from your perspective but in a calm and rational way it will help. I no longer see my family and my mother just wanted to control. I am not suggesting you are in that bracket but please let them have a voice even if it may hurt you deeply in the short term.
:)
Viv,
Have a well deserved break. Hope you are going to shop till you drop.
No more needs be said than this paragraph
'...In one of the situations the inspector speaks about the mother of the child, Kate, who before the possibility to find the daughter appears bothered with the speed reached by the car of the police. [This was after a new information of a possible sighting of Madeleine was given to the police, the mother instead of being anxious looked annoyed with the entire situation]...'
It shows her lack of concern but also her anxious state
Hi All
Have just had a brief look back and before I read more I just wanted to say..
Dyl..
My thoughts are with you and I hope everything goes well for you. I hope your children come to realise where they are better off, which is with you of course. I admire you for not telling them what you went through, many people become very bitter and destroy what relationship they had with their children.
I have two people in my life right now going through very similar circumstances, it breaks my heart to see the devastation being caused due to exaggeration and untruths.
My advice to them is the same to you, stay strong.
xx
Hi Viv
Have a good break and chill, the cleaning will still be there when you get back:o(
Perhaps we could both borrow Doc and his mop :o))
Seriously enjoy your time away.
xx
Liverpool Echo:
"Madeleine McCann's parents consult lawyers over detective's book"
"In an extract published today Mr Amaral claimed that British police held back a potentially important lead for six months.
He wrote that a serious allegation was passed on to Leicestershire Police on May 16 2007, less than a fortnight after Madeleine disappeared.
But he alleged that the UK force did not communicate the information to their Portuguese counterparts until after he was removed from the case in October.
Mr Amaral wrote: “This raises a legitimate question: why did the British police apparently hide that witness statement for six months?”
Leicestershire Police declined to comment on the allegation.
HomeNewsBreaking News
Mr Amaral wrote: that a serious allegation was passed on to Leicestershire Police on May 16 2007, less than a fortnight after Madeleine disappeared.
-----------------------------------
She was made a WOC on May 17.
-----------------------------------
Is there a connection?
And Liverpool Dayly Post the same story:
EPICENTER Earthquake
The quake is comming
ICTOAN
That's very interesting!!
Is this to do with the David Payne report of his conversation with Gerry?
ICTOAN :
What is a WOC ???
Yes Di, it has to do with David Paine
ecolab
WOC = Ward Of Court
Anyone know what make of laptop this is?
Di
I think that the serious allegation was the report by other doctors of the conversation and gestures made by GM and DP on a previous holiday.
ICTOAN
So, do you think Maddie WAS made a WOC by Social Services and not that the McCanns wanted her to be made one.
di
I think it is a strong possibility.
Doc
Is it a Mac Book Pro?
Hi Doc
Re Laptop sorry can't help. It is not one I have had before.
Keep your mop handy Viv & I might be needing to borrow it shortly :o))
Madeleine: A Ward of Court
written by John Bolch on Saturday, June 21, 2008
Many thanks to Jailhouselawyer for pointing out this article, in The Telegraph today. June 21 It has been revealed that, shortly after Madeleine McCann disappeared last year, her parents applied to the High Court to have her made a ward of court. They are now using the wardship to ask the court to order Leicestershire Police to disclose details of reported sightings of Madeleine, so that they can have those sightings investigated by a detective agency.
Wardship is a fairly rare bird these days. Its effect is to empower the court to make such orders as are deemed necessary for the protection of the child. This may seem a bit odd in respect of a child that is missing and may be dead, but wardship is quite often used in such circumstances - the court can make whatever orders are considered necessary to locate and return the child, and this is exactly what the McCanns are seeking. On the face of it, it does seem to make sense - surely the more people that are looking for Madeleine, the greater the chance that she will be found (assuming, of course, that she is still alive)? On the other hand, a cynic might say that the application is just a smokescreen - an attempt by the McCanns (who are, of course, suspects in the case) to indicate their innocence.
ICTOAN/Doc
I keep remembering the report that Gordon Brown was supposed to have said... WE are not ready for this yet. What do you think he meant? Or was the report a myth!!
A Mac Book Pro!! lol!!! What a gloriously dry sense of humour you have ICTOAN.
Di - 0800-100-CLEANERS. 24 hrs.
Not sure of the laptop Doc. Do you think this story was covered up for 6 months because it may have hit a raw nerve with somebody in power bearing in mind the way Blair blocked a probing of a posssible paedophile link with senior labour personnel.
Hi Ecolab
I am becoming more and more confused, I think I need to get out more LOL :o))
Ecolab
I am always suspicious of explanations given in British newspapers for the reasons things happen in this case.
Whosoever applied for WOC status for Madeleine has not been officially been revealed as far as I know.
It is of course possible that someone on the blog can clarify the point.
Doc
Your business card is on my notice board as we speak :o))
I remember the so called piece that appeared on the DX a long time ago about a private jet and the 10th person being a senior civil servant. There was also a government style piece that appeared for a few hours that got pulled and disppeared. It referenced paedophiles in it. I always thought it was a fake but maybe these kind of fit together if the info about D>Payne proves in time to be correct and if the person who jumped on the private plane was a very senior civil servant it could tie in with why CM got 'seconded' All very interesting.
Di, as this forum is private, here are some names you may recognise that appeared on the Operation Ore list of possible suspects regarding child porn and paedophilia.
Peter Mandelson, Gordon Brown, Alan Milburn, John Prescott.
Get it now?
Doc
Thank you for the compliment!
ICTOAN
I remember a thread on 3A's someone contacted Social Services and they declined to comment that Maddie had been made a WOC by the parents. They said they could not comment on that being right or something similar.
If proved correct it would provide a motive for the sort of antics we have seen, ie narrow minded and determined to cut off any sort of rational questioning. I remember a journalist who told me that the police raided a 'dodgy' party once and a former home secretary was there. He left out the back door and various men were arrestyed and went out the front. This was decades ago apparently but strange things do happen in life.
Doc
It that for real, I have read Peter Mandleson before but not the others.. Wow..
Was it not said that Gordon Brown's brother could have been the other possible 10th Tappas?
Di, You are saying :..... the report that Gordon Brown was supposed to have said... WE are not ready for this yet.
????
I remember many years ago at med school. We are back in early 80`, we had lektures with a rumor, that a cow was cloned in England. We students did discuss the issue. The puplic was NOT ready for that!
15 years later the sheep Dolly was born in Scotland. The puplic was ready for that.
When will the public be ready for the first born cloned human???
Just asking - you do`nt have to answer.
Hi BT, did you see the post I put up on the 19th and then removed for fear that Viv would open the blog if the announcement had not been in the McCanns' favour?
I strongly believe that this is the big secret that will prevent this case from ever being concluded satifactorily, at least while the Labour government remains in power.
Who knows who it was that hot footed it out by private plane but surely the Portugese would have the flight logged.
Doc
Oh don't leave me in suspense, the 19th I was not around!!
Can you give a hint.
I have to go very soon.
BT
True.
Off for a short while but will look back in.
Doc
I am glad you mentioned this. I e-mailed Viv and asked her to ask you if I could have your e-mail. I was most interested in hearing more about it but alas Viv has not got back to me either. Strange cos I congratulated her on her JFV as well. If she e-mails you my address I am happy to correspond privately with you and give you the name of the home secretary that this journalist gave me. It was a World In Action journalist and in those days this programme was pukka and dealt in facts not heresay.
Also, probably not connected at all but over here there was all sorts of questions about Brown and him being single and then he got married. I remember an article about him along the lines of him being dedicated to a single life and politics and comparing it to Edward Heath. Then suddenly he was engaged and married.
BT ask her again. She often misses e-mails at her Felicity address. I use the other one :-).
Make sure you ask for my gmail one.
Have to go for a little while now.
Of course these sorts of things get very well hidden and are very difficult to prove if they are actually fact as it gets swept under carpets.
OK DOC
www.indymedia.org.uk had this on it
Alleged Pedophiles at Helm of Britain's War Machine, Massive Cover-Up
By Mike James: January 28 2003
A child-sex scandal that threatened to destroy Tony Blair's government last week has been mysteriously squashed and wiped off the front pages of British newspapers. Operation Ore, the United Kingdom's most thorough and comprehensive police investigation of crimes against children, seems to have uncovered more than is politically acceptable at the highest reaches of the British elite.
In the 19th of January edition of The Sunday Herald, Neil Mackay sensationally reported that senior members of Tony Blair's government were being investigated for paedophilia and the "enjoyment" of child-sex pornography:
"The Sunday Herald has also had confirmed by a very senior source in British intelligence that at least one high-profile former Labour Cabinet minister is among Operation Ore suspects. The Sunday Herald has been given the politician's name but, for legal reasons, can not identify the person.
There are still unconfirmed rumours that another senior Labour politician is among the suspects. The intelligence officer said that a 'rolling' Cabinet committee had been set up to work out how to deal with the potentially ruinous fall-out for both Tony Blair and the government if
arrests occur."
The allegations are the most serious yet levelled at an administration that prides itself on the inclusion in its ranks of a high quota of
controversial and flamboyant homosexual men, and whose First Lady, Cherie Blair, has come under the spotlight for her indulgence in pagan rituals that resemble Freemasonic rites. Unconfirmed information also suggests that the term "former Labour Cabinet minister" is misleading and that the investigation has identified a surprisingly large number of alleged paedophiles at the highest level of British government, including one very senior cabinet minister (known to Propaganda Matrix.com).
The Blair government has responded by imposing a comprehensive blackout on the story, effectively removing it from the domain of public
discussion. Attempts on the part of this journalist to establish why the British media has not followed up on the revelations have met with a wall of silence. Editors and journalists of The Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, The Independent, The Sunday Times, The Observer, The Sunday Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Mirror, The Sun, the BBC, Independent Television News and even The Sunday Herald have refused to discuss the matter.
Speaking from London, freelance journalist Bob Kearley told me: "Whether or not a D-Notice has been issued is not clear. But based on some of the feedback I've been getting it's apparent that editors and media owners have voluntarily agreed not to cover the story at this time. Operation Ore is still being reported, but not in regard to government ministers, and it's taking up very few column inches on the third or fourth page. Don't forget that the intelligence services are involved here, and Blair is anxious to ensure that the scandal does not rock the boat at a time when the country is about to go to war."
"You can imagine the effect this would have on the morale of troops who are about to commit in Iraq. In fact morale is reportedly quite low
anyway, with service personnel throwing their vaccines into the sea en route to the battlefront and knowing how unpopular the war is with the British people. And a lot of squaddies I've met think there's something weird going on between Bush and Blair. If you're then told that the
executive responsible for the conduct of the war is staffed by child-molesters ... well, then Saddam suddenly looks like the sort of bloke with
whom you can share a few tins [beer]."
[In an E mail to Paul Joseph Watson, Mike James identified his sources as "people I knew in London who used to work for the Treasury department throughout the 1980s, one being a private secretary at a senior level....my sources will definitely refuse to support my claims - both are doing extremely well financially and career-wise."]
Note the last paragraph and the talk of a senior private secreatry just as the article had with the rumour over the private jet leaving PDL with one on board. Who knows ?
Here is the link
www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/01/52200.html?c=on
I was living out of the country at the time and dont know much about this story.
If this sort of thing turned out to be a fact somehow it could explain the hatred Cherie Blair seemed to have about G_B. In the political & legal system unable to talk but as a mother outraged. GOSH rather sinister in outline isnt it. Certainly would explain the former head of the Central Office of Information getting closely involved with GM + KH all of a sudden. Would be interesting to see if his closeness developed after the 16th May or before.
BT
I was also out of the country at the time and this is all new news to me.
I feel shell-shocked.
http://xuk.biz/UKLR/Landslide/library/44/Sunday%20Herald.htm
.. there are problems with Operation Ore. According to Detective Chief Inspector Bob McLachlan, who recently retired as head of Scotland Yard's paedo phile unit, the biggest concern is that many of the men wanted for questioning may escape prosecution.
McLachlan, who was central to the running of Operation Ore in the UK until his retirement, fears the hand ling of the case so far could hamstring inquiries. Since the Operation Ore arrest in September 2002 of Detective Con stable Brian Stevens, one of the officers who took part in investigating the Soham murders of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, the public have known every facet of the case: most importantly that anyone who subscribed to Landslide is a suspect. The delay in arresting all the suspects has also given the guilty the chance to destroy any evidence.
As McLachlan says: 'Sufficient warnings have been given that if people haven't got rid of their computers then they are either stupid, don't believe they'll be arrested, or are so obsessive about their collections that they can't destroy it. As time goes on, the chances of successful prosecutions will diminish.'
McLachlan says he doubts claims by his former boss, the Met's deputy assistant commissioner Carol Howlett, that the remaining 6000 arrests can be made in nine months -- the operation has been running since April last year. He believes lack of resources and manpower means British police are constantly playing catch-up with predatory paedophiles.
'I was constantly looking for new staff,' he says. 'My team was down to 17 people in 1999 and then 15 in 2000 -- of those only three were able to do day-to-day work. This demoralises officers and it doesn't do much for the kids either.'
McLachlan describes claims by the government and police chiefs that they are prioritising paedophile crime as 'smoke and mirrors', and he worries that Operation Ore will become a 'cock-up'.
'Operation Ore cases are being dished out to Child Protection Teams and they don't have the training to deal with predatory paedophiles -- they deal with children beaten by their parents or sexually abused by their father, which are a totally different thing. Officers are massively under stress and the volume of Operation Ore cases is enormous.'
He questions why Ireland was able to arrest all its Operation Ore suspects in one go, and why Germany was able to pull in more than 1000 men in a day. 'The problem is that nobody owns the operation in the UK,' he says. Once the American authorities passed the details of the alleged offenders to Interpol in Lyon the information was relayed in turn to the National Criminal Intelligence Service. NCIS then divided up the 7000 men into geographical areas and sent 'intelligence packages' on them to the police force in their area. By now, however, many may have moved address.
Only three cities -- London, Birmingham and Manchester -- have dedicated paedophile units. 'The rest of the forces haven't done this work -- they haven't a clue,' McLachlan adds. He also blames the government for failing to make paedo phile crime a priority. The Home Office's 2003-06 National Policing Plan does not prioritise child protection -- instead it focuses on drugs and juvenile crime. McLachlan believes the government thinks issues like these give the 'best press'. It wasn't until 2000 that paedo philia was listed -- at McLachlan's insistence -- as an organised crime in the NCIS annual threat assessment
'The government has set what the priorities are and that has meant internet paedophilia going to the back of the queue ,' he says. 'In the future someone will look back at these cases and see that during this delay one of the suspects was abusing kids ... then paedophilia will eventually become a priority.'
McLachlan says that the solution to this bureaucratic mess is a paedophile unit in every police force in the land. The catalogue of disasters just goes on, however. McLachlan had just two people working in his computer forensic section -- a key part of the unit which provides the evidence on whether or not a suspect has accessed child porn.
'The labs are saturated,' he says. 'When I retired in May I had to close down the unit to any more work as I wasn't being given any more staff and we couldn't do the work. When I retired we were using software off the front of computer magazines and some staff were buying software out of their own pocket.' Just £300,000 had been set aside for forensic examinations of computers.
Who knows maybe we will never know or maybe it is a matter of time.
Thanks Doc
You can delete now.
I am totally shocked, but I suppose I should not be. There are so many terrible things going on today with children involved.
I really have to go now but will look in tomorrow.
Night all.
Maybee G. WAS telling the truth, when he said: We know, she is taken by a british paedophile ring.
A Rival Ring, somebody sauer or a bussiness, that went wrong?
goodnight all
Good night BT
One last one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/politics97/budget97/background/gordonbrown.shtml
... His love life was the cause of a run-in with Sue Lawley on Desert Island Discs: She said "People want to know whether you're gay or whether there is some flaw in your personality" Brown said in reply "I'm not married because I'm not married. It just hasn't happened yet. It might happen, there have been times...and yes, I've got friends".
He had a five-year relationship with Princess Marguerite of Romania, the eldest daughter of ex-King Michael of Romania, who said a relationship with him was "politics, politics, politics".
Mr Brown is notoriously hard-working. During the election campaign, he is said to have worked an average of 18 hours a day, six days a week after running on a treadmill for an hour each morning. He is blind in one eye after a rugby accident at school and he once put an ice axe through his thigh while hill-climbing with John Smith.
He met his wife aged 45 and married her at 49.
Now it really is goodnight. But this one actually appeared in the Mail over expenses and hiding what they are used for. (ring any bells?) !!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1032049/The-week-Labour-proved-suicidally-corrupt.html
...Much more disturbing, however, was the conduct of government ministers.
Shamefully, 33 of them voted against the reforms, including five Cabinet members: Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, Culture Secretary Andy Burnham, Northern Ireland Secretary Shaun Woodward, Housing Minister Caroline Flint and Welsh Secretary Paul Murphy. Both of Gordon Brown's Parliamentary aides, Ian Austin and Angela Smith, were also opposed to the proposed changes.
Gordon Brown didn't vote either way, confirming the damaging impression that he is a ditherer.
This was a sad moment for the Prime Minister. When he entered Downing Street just over a year ago, Gordon Brown promised to restore the trust in politics which had been so badly damaged by the sleaze and greed of the Blair years.
Yet on Thursday night, he allowed members of his own government to vote down proposals which would have made the air cleaner at Westminster.
While it is impossible to be sure why the Prime Minister acted in the way he did, here is my informed assessment.
The key to understanding his position is the fact that Thursday's vote on expenses followed an earlier one which involved the equally controversial issue of MPs' pay.
Facing a backbench revolt from Labour MPs who were furious at what they saw as an insulting increase in their £61,000 salary, the Prime Minister was forced to concede them a free vote on the expenses issue in return for accepting the deal on pay.
Brown knew that defeat on this vital question would have been even more embarrassing and have had a catastrophic impact on the entire government economic policy of trying to keep a tight lid on public service pay awards.
In other words, Labour MPs were told that in return to agreeing to a very small rise in their official salary, they were free to carry on fiddling their expenses.
This shabby compromise proved acceptable to the rebels, and Gordon Brown's public sector wages negotiations remain on course. But I fear that he will pay a heavy long-term cost for such low and debased politics.
Although I continue to believe Gordon Brown is personally a man of integrity, his decision on Thursday night meant that he has allowed his Labour Party to condone sleaze in a Commons vote.
I'm just going out now I may be some time
http://www.thesargeants.net/dblog/articolo.asp?articolo=99
I am so lonely this evening. Well I have given you all some links to read and think about. We are fortunate to live in a freer country than most in this world.
BT
You had me worried for a while.
When I read your 22.40 post I thought you were doing a Capt. Oates on us
Try this one ICTOAN
http://www.tpuc.org/node/34
very interesting about the dunblane chaps referee for a gun !! amongst other things
If anyone is in need of light relief read the thread on 3A entitled:
"ive heard it all now".
If I disappear then you know 'they have taken me' !!!!!
:)
BT
Still reading but interesting to see the mention of Casa Pia.
ICTOAN, iv just come away from that thread and im in bits, the tears are rolling down my cheeks !!
Now a new one on Esther McVey and connection to Mentorn
http://www.thesargeants.net/dblog/articolo.asp?articolo=112
More here about this
http://www.thesargeants.net/dblog/articolo.asp?articolo=158
...Dear Mrs Kinnock,
My colleague Miquel Sagredo has asked me to respond to your question on what the state of play is in regard to the possible setting up of an EU wide Paedophelia register.
Member States have in the past rejected the idea of setting up an EU register for criminal convictions and have preferred the option of a decentralised network for the exchange of information on convictions stored by the Member State of nationality...
isis
There has been a lot of interesting things going down here this evening from 19.26 if you haven't already seen them.
Di, doc, viv,
Here I am and decidedly very squiffy!! Friend was of great help and we may all see her in future as she has a job for the met office as forecaster. I just hope her forecasts for me are correct!!
I just find it so unfair that money buys, especially with my children whom I have brought up to appreciate what is good in life. Like natural beauty, hills, becks and farmsteads. I don't believe for one second they would sell themselves out for Mickey Mouse et al. I just can't be sure.
Drunk but feeling better. :))) (how do you do a wobbly smile?) ~~~~~~~~ like that? xxxxxxx
dylan
I find that to drink plenty of water after a heavy night helps to avoid that morning after the night before feeling.
ICTOAN, havnt read them , but have read very interesting stuff elsewhere,will try and catch up. BTW that thread from the 3as has been whooshed for some reason??
Doc, yes 40!!!! :(
although i see it as nothing can be worse than my 30s :) but it seems that things are panning out that way. Surely life may deal me a better lot or I may as well just throw myself under the nearest lorry!! If it weren't for my little elly, i may just well!
I can't fight any more but they will take Ryan and Laura over my dead body! Elly has a different dad who is equally a bast**d but she needs me.
I'm not giving in. I am a good person and I have much more to give on this earth. xxx
Dyl, if your more than squiffy, solpadine , water and bed!!!
ICTOAN, I am drinking orange juice. Does that help? xx
ISIS
It is worth viewing at the posts as it certainly follows on from this May 16th link re D.Payne and a thread which could provide explainations for the actions we have seen. Who knows though.
Dylan
Your heart will tell you the right thing and you will follow it
ICTOAN, in relation to the timeline the main problem i have is ..according to the official pj report, no one except kate and gerry saw madeleine on the 3rd may sfter 5.30pm, now i am assuming this is a mccann timeline, then on the panorama transcript, which is a definate mccann time line it is alleged that gerry asked david payne to check on kate and the twins at 6.30, he says he checked all was well and that the children were tired and already in their pyjamas and would not be coming back down. Now given that these two times are mcann timelines, which was it, they cannot have it both ways, either david payne checked on the children or he did not, someone is telling porkies imo.
dylan
The main cause of a hangover is dehydration caused by the alcohol (or so I'm told).
In former times when I went to conferences I found plenty of water before bed left me OK in the morning.
Incidentely at these conferences the Scottish delegations always drank Irn-Bru in the morning if they were feeling off colour.
BT, have read a lot today in relation to mr payne including the excerpt from amarals book which really disturbed me, if true no wonder they distanced themselves from them.
isis
Have you any reaction to my question earlier about a serious accusation on 16 May (against Payne?) and the WOC for Madeleine on 17 May and a possible link.
Isis,
I have ABBA too! Off to bed. Hopefully all of the ugly stuff will disappear by morning too. I just want my kids back & be strong enough to tell my daughter's boyfriend that everything's ok like I believe it to be, convincingly. Being strong is where I fail miserably as a parent. Smiles )))))
This is hell & I hate it. goodnight & I'll try to be more positive tomorrow. xxx
the in bracket bit should also have included Gerry.
If all this is true then it is very sad as it is too big a story to allow out which kind of means Madeleine's true story will be left in the ether and that is the first time I have said that. I feel it could be an angle that explains many of the actions and this time I also mean it when I say I am just going out now for some time........
BT
Keep the faith!
BT,
nannite. 'scuse my narcissism. xx
ICTOAN, read the excerpt from ecolabs post and also had already read the excerpt from amarals book in relation to the couple who had met the mccanns and the paynes on the holiday in majorca, the conversation that passed is very worrying and i just wonder why the police sat on it for so long. As for madeliene being made a woc , the timimg is interesting and i just wonder who did pass on the information, imo she was made a ward of court on the basis of this but by whom? Docs post was deleted by doc himself i believe so i dont know what that said. All in all this is beginining to look like the biggest cover up i have ever seen, but the question is who is being protected, i have no doubt now that there was a tenth tapas member, why the protection??
Sleep well, all.
http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18552 This makes an interesting read, sorry i still can do the hyperlink thing!!
isis
Doc's post was a repeat of one he made on 19th which was very illuminating.
If you had not seen it I suggest you ask him to post it if he is of a mind to.
I can't get the 3A link to work with either of my web browsers
Looks like I've cleared the room again so its time to sign out.
It's no good. I can't sleep. Tried to call my kids. It should be 6pm their time. They are not answering.
I am a sad 40 yr old fool who just wants her children here. Would I leave them alone in a room abroad? Hell no. That's why i am here and have been since 3/5/07. I'm not responsible for them for the next two weeks and I can't take not being with them.
ICTOAN, not to worry, i have read back on this blog to the 19th and seen the post where you advised doc to delete his post.The thread i had posted was one you had obviously read already, in relation to DP, the post by the poster pogasca i cannot find as the format of the 3as has changed since mondays traffic overload, but i will keep looking.
ICTOAN, found that post, think i know what you are getting at, also know who gallstone is.
Isis,
Gallstone is our dear Docmac! xx
Dyl, i know!! Have had contact with him on the 3As!! Try and get some sleep.
Isis - can't. Have butterflies eating my insides. Just wish they were there because of a new beau ;)
Claudia, only 12 left to go. Even in my hour of need I am still considerate ;) Wake up hun xx
If anyone else is there waiting for another to make the first posting, Good Morning To You
Good morning, all.
I have the book in my hand.
I'll start reading it soon.
As I'll read it I'll summarise the more important aspects of it on my blog.
xxxx
Hi Claudia!
I was just going to tell ICTOAN that everyone probably are reading your blog just now!
Thank you!!
http://proud-of-the-pj.blogspot.com/
Morning to you. Saw this on Paulo Reis's blog:
“Guerra e Paz”, the publisher of Gonçalo Amaral book, is negotiating with other publishers, to have an English version, according to a spokeswoman from the company. Questioned about the comments from Clarence Mitchell, concerning the content of the book and the possibility that the McCann could file a libel suit against the author and publisher, the same source said that “the company's position about those subjects will be made public, soon.” The book, “A Verdade da Mentira” (The Truth of the Lie) will be launched tomorrow afternoon, in Lisbon, in the restaurant of a shopping-mall, “El Corte Inglés”. The Portuguese daily newspaper Correio da Manhã, the leading newspaper in Portugal, with an average circulation of 117 thousand copies, will have the book for sale, with its daily edition, tomorrow morning.
Morning all,
Claudia, thanks in advance.
Dylan,
'I am a sad 40 yr old fool who just wants her children here.'
No you are no fool, you are a mum with a heart that is hurting and missing her kids. Be strong.
Zodiac x.
Claudia
I know that the task you've set yourself will be a marathon and will take you some time. Therefore my comment below is in no way a criticism.
Friends
While you are waiting I urge you to read the comments by Bath Theory and others made from about 19.25 last night.
You may find it links in with what you are going to learn from Claudia.
Who could have just landed on Claudia's blog do you think?
Leicester, Leicester arrived from blogsearch.google.co.uk on "Proud of the PJ: Updated Ouch..."
Doc
The Glasgow arrival could be Phil McCarcass. I am correct that she comes fro that city?
Yeah, but so is Mandz..
I have been e-mailing Claudia BTW. Tinkerbell has also been lurking. And Rosie is there now.
Hey Doc! Thats not fear on the Leicester-visitor;-)
I'm 500 km from Athens, and where are you!?!?! ;-)
Have A LOT of work to do, but to curiouse about the book, so I'm glued to the PC....
I wonder why all the Pros are lurking.
I thought they had their own tame PT poster who slagged off the PJ?
Doc! Sorry, found you in Midrand:-)
Have never noticed this feedjit live... :-)
Morning everyone, logged on to claudias twice this am, first live feed showed me logging on from longford ireland, second log on showed me lohgging on from mayo!!! I assure you i am near neither of them! Mabey the pink presence there is knocking the think off kilter??
hi Nikio
Midrand, yes. That is 1600km away from me and is where my ISP's HQ is. But then they use their own proxy servers to route traffic when there is overload on certain parts of their system, so I could appear anywhere in SA. Well, any major city that is.
I'm always near the flat mountain! I'm looking at it now, though the weather is closing in, so it may disappear this afternoon. :-)
isis Good morning
Another Conspiracy?
For months when I have logged onto Viv's site using Safari it crashes after a few minutes,
The sme has started with Claudia's site.
I don't get such a regular pattern of crashes on other web sites.
Firefox gives me no trouble at all!
Niki, sorry! Typo..
ICTOAN, moprning, no i think not! Just read docs post, morning doc, might be due to overload on my ips server. Anyway im off to bed as im pulling the night shift for the next 4 nights so will catch up when i can, if im slightly incoherent its because im suffering sleep depravation and all that !
I agree about Safari, ICTOAN. Gives lots of trouble. Opera too. I use IE and Firefox. In fact I've just logged in to Claudia's using FF2 (haven't updated yet) from Hamburg, Germany using a proxy server :-))
'Night', isis.
Claudia must be very busy if she misses out on 801!
Well
Claudia
I view of all the sterling work you are doing at the moment I concede 801 to you.
Hi All,
I’ve just returned from a week’s holiday, out of the country, and can’t quite see what is going on. Can someone be kind enough to update me on the situation?
Many thanks
Hi Wizard
Welcome back.
Most people are on Claudia's blog where she is translating Amaral's Book although at the moment she is taking a lunch break.
I assume you know about the shelving of the inquiry.
You might find it useful to see last night's postings here from 19.26.
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