5 Jan 2009

RUSSELL TWO PRINTS 6 X 4 SEVERAL WEEKS OLD

IS THIS THE ONE THEN RUSSELL, YOU KNOW, JUST TO TRY AND JOG YOUR MEMORY?



Simple enough question, to which the answer should have just been no.

Who is "we"?

"whoever" had one in "our"..."I" didn't "we" erm "we"..."my" searches.."we" got hold of erm Kate's camera..."we" went through those er

If there is one thing this tells me this man has a clear picture in his head of someone else being involved in this process (if it even took place) but he does not want to mention that person and the second question again was so clear and simple, who gave it to you? but he just does not answer, does he!

This is a man who has rambled on to the police for countless hours on two solid days about mind numbing detail and trivia but when he is asked the serious questions, when did you last see Madeleine erm ll months on I cannot really be certain she might have been but I am not sure e.g. at the creche on the afternoon...; and what kind of picture was it erm I have seen so many pictures of her, you know (do forgive me Russell and Dave but from reading you actually I don't) the vital details about little Maddie this is where his memory completely leaves him. Very strange that Russell! So anyway what he is tellling us here, highly incredible though it may seem, is that he or we actually went through Kate's camera, within two hours looking for a picture of Maddie on that holiday but they were just not good enough of her, but, as luck would have it, there was one on there, several weeks old, with slightly longer hair. All within the space of two hours he managed to get a printer and even print it out on normal photograph size paper 6" x 4" and give it to the police. A4 copies of those appearing the next morning which is a lot more believable because it is very easy to just copy a photo, even off a photocopying machine onto normal size paper which is of course A4. What I just find simply incredible is that Kate apparently had a pic of Maddie several weeks old that was just great on her camera, but not one of that actual holiday and Russell (we that is) managed to get it printed up just like a proper little picture. The thing is Russell if you had a printer and you wanted to find Maddie why did you go to all the trouble to just print out normal 6 x 4s?

I know you hate the media I read that but I promise you this much, every few days, I am going to take a piece of your quite incredible statements to the Police (and there are loads) and write a little bit about it, but just to be completely fair, I am going to publish what you said as well, is that OK? I am not the media as such, I am just an ordinary woman who wants justice for a little girl, who you simply cannot remember, apparently, the slightest little detail about, so please bear with me.

Viv x

Second day of grilling at Leicester Police on 10.4.08:

00.18.35 1578 “Did you have any photo of Madeleine in your possession”?
Reply “Erm we got a photo of Madeleine later on but this is two hours later, erm”.
1578 “So who gave it to you”?
Reply “Okay well certain, I’m not quite sure what the, the initial, the question made it sound like whoever had one in our possession anyway, I didn’t, erm we got a, we erm, after a portion of my searches, we got hold of erm Kate’s camera, err looked through the digital cam to try and find a picture of Madeleine reasonably recently, reasonably face on and, and with her being the main, the main character on the photograph, erm clearly that that was going through, there were quite a few pictures that were not ideal, so we, we went through those, err and then printed that off, erm all of this taking a reasonable amount of time to try and get hold of equipment and have offices opened and etc., etc”.
1578 “Okay. What kind of photo was it”?
Reply “The, it was a, it was a photo of err, it was the one that was being circulated in the, in the days immediately afterwards, I’ve seen so many photographs of her, of Madeleine since, I think it was a photograph that had been taken of her and a relatively number of weeks before and I think with a slightly different, slightly longer hair, erm but it was, it was a fa, it was a fa, it was a relatively full on sort of face on photograph, err and it was printed on a standard size erm four by six err inch, as you know, using the equipment that the people had and we ran off a number of copies of this, erm and several I think were given to the, the GNR”.
00.20.21 1578 “I was going to ask you the next question”.
Reply “Sorry”.
1578 “Was, who did you give the photo to”?
Reply “Yeah well I think the ones that I had, I took, you know cos obviously they were printing out, you know they were slow you know, we really wanted to get them to the Police fairly quickly, so I took the first couple of copies and took those round to, I think the GNR staff, I presume they were the origin, you know original uniformed Officers, it wasn’t the PJ, it was well before the PJ arrived, erm there were other copies printed off which I don’t know where they got to but I know that Mark WARNER, somebody in Mark WARNER made a poster, or at least an A4 err saying that there’d been, you know, there’d been a, err an abduction and that Madeleine was missing and that was circulated around the next morning, so somebody had, had, had that photograph and used it for that poster but I took, I don’t know two or three copies maybe and gave them to the Police. I actually think ultimately there may have been more copies printed off and somebody else gave even more copies to them as well, err and I think some of the other copies were shown, were just shown to people around who were going on the searches but erm personally”.
1578 “The copies that you had, you only gave to the Police”?
Reply “I gave it to the Police, just to the Police”.

170 comments:

viv said...

Hm Just like the Met got an anon email about the Belgian paedos and then Prince Charles and Camilla..who is "we" Russell?? Does it pray on your mind, now?

A minute's silence for little Maddie done up in her football kit, think about it Russell..what you decided to take a part in. How does life go back to normal for you, I wonder?


24.5.07..Then, Monday’s Daily Mirror covered its front page with a splash reporting ‘a minute’s silence to remember Madeleine and pray for her safe return’. The source of this important news? An anonymous e-mail, calling for a minute ‘to raise consciousness about the disappearance’, as if raising consciousness any higher were possible.

viv said...

I am sure Gerry found the loaned laptop in PDL, complete with internet connection an absolute comfort to him ...

Wizard said...

Wow Viv this seems to be the ramblings of a very, very nervous man.

viv said...

Hiya Wiz

Well I suppose we can understand him being so obviously nervous because if "we" supplied him with a number of these 6 x 4 pictures that he just happened to have taken with him, that clearly implies murder.

I do not know whether you have read these interviews but there is plenty more to come, including how he /they wanted to stick the case on Murat!!

I sometimes have to wonder why they do not just arrest the bloody lot of them!

xx

viv said...

but then of course my carefully trained legal mind:-))) kicks back in and I say to myself, just think how complex this is and just how much preparation the charges and evidence to support will take! It is just not a straightforward case, where they have found the body etc, sadly!

There is certainly a mighty big question mark about the involvement of O'Brien and Payne, who painstakingly sat with Gerry (perhaps) writing out three different timelines..how was that going to get Maddie back?

The first one that OB says he did scribble out on a kiddies book has him getting back to the table at 9.55 but he says that is wrong, 11 months later when his memory has faded so badly (on occasions) what he wrote the same night is quite wrong, he did NOT get back to the table immediately before Kate rose for her check, that just looks to sus, no he was back by 9.45 at the latest!

viv said...

oh and by the time they wrote out the second timeline with the word Gerald written on the bottom of it, suddenly, there is an addition, Mat did a check on the McCanns kids at 9.30:-)) and flip me he never even got a mention in the first one, strange that! Still I suppose little Grace could not get up and go wandering off..so no worries there then!

Niki said...

Happy New Year Everyone!!!

Hope you all enjoyed the holidays! (I did:-)))

I am way behind with reading again... so sorry for being stupid...: Are all the statments/interwies given to the Leicester police available to the public?

Remember this about Russel?:

Dr Russell O'Brien, partner of Jane Tanner, left the dining table for a long period during the night of May 3rd. This period has been reported as being anything between 25 and 45 minutes.

It has been stated that this was to attend to his young daughter who had been vomitting and that he needed to change the sheets. Staff at the Mark Warner Ocean Club have been reported as denying that there was ever any request to wash sheets from their apartment.

He is also one of the three Tapas group (with Rachael Oldfield and Dr Fiona Payne) who were recalled by the Portugese police to clear up queries in their statements and 'confront' Robert Murat.

Dr O'Brien lived in Leicestershire, near the McCanns, before moving to set up home in Exeter with his partner Jane Tanner. He works at the Peninsula Medical School at the University of Plymouth's Exeter campus.

He was widely reported to be the other Tapas group member who allegedly wished to amend their original statement.

When contacted by Portuguese newspaper, Sol, he is reported to react with surprise but said:

"We drank. We were on holidays. So what?"

"It is normal that we are suspects, and the DNA test is a consequence thereof. We were the closest people involved."

"I have nothing further to tell you. I am not going to dishonour the compromise I assumed with Kate and Gerry. They want to control all information that is disclosed."

*
Note: The word 'compromise' attributed to Russell O'Brien appears to be a mis-translation of the Portuguese word 'compromisso', which also means 'promise'.

From Mccannsfiles

Have a nice afternoon:-)
Niki

nancy said...

Hi everyone -

So Kate and Gerry want to control all information that is disclosed! If they are all innocent they wouldn't be worried about what was disclosed would they? Everything they say and do shows them all up for what they are - a lying bunch of self serving hypocrites.

As for the statements of the three muskateers - Oldfield, Payne and O'Brien - they seemed well able to remember trivia, as Viv says, but the most important little member of the whole case who disappeared in the wild blue yonder, they couldn't remember if, where or whether they had last seen her. What liars they all are and they will no doubt go down to the cells when this case is eventually tried in Court protesting their innocence! Lily livered b......s!

nancy said...

Viv -

Are there statements from Kate and Gerry given to the Leicestershire Police do you know?




Nx

nancy said...

The McCann Files are running an article by the Sunday Daily Star showing what is thought to be an up to date picture of Maddie, as she would look now if she is still alive and unharmed. It was drawn by an age-progression expert, Jovey Mae Hayes.

It shows Maddie with darker hair, a hint of a smile and says that if Maddie had beeb abducted, she may have built up a degree of trust in the person or people who are holding her; if they have treated her well. It is highly unlikely her life would be total misery, hence the slight smile. This at last may be of some comfort to her parents and relations.

Well, I'm sorry, but I think this is all hogwash and printed to try to deny the obvious clues that Maddie's last hours were spent in the apartment in PdeL.

The face doesn't look at all like Madeleine anyway - not a bit.

Wizard said...

I think I am correct in saying KM no longer works. I also believe the twins are taken to the local nursery daily. Unless someone is ‘living in’ Kate will be on her own with the twins at least part of the day. GM does not appear to be concerned about this and goes off to work leaving her in charge. Although this bodes well for their abduction theory it makes me wonder why he doesn’t worry about this situation I certainly would!

viv said...

Hiya Niki, Happy New Year and great to hear from you again.

Even on his own faltering account Dr O'Brien was late getting to the dinner table because his children were not asleep, he says Jane went earlier and was to order his meal for him, which it would seem he never got time to eat, even though he says he arrived by 8.45 and then did not leave again until about 9.25/9.30. He then returned to the table at 9.55 according to the timeline he wrote out and says he was waiting for his dinner to be re-cooked but then Kate came and made he dreadful announcement. Although he says this in the timeline in his interviews with LP he says well actually I was back at the table by 9.45 and they were then re-cooking his dinner which he just got when Kate made her announcement. Poor man must have been so hungry when he was frantically searching for Maddie!

As you say, if the McCanns actually wanted their daughter to be found they would have no reason, to "control all information that is disclosed". Why do they want the public ringing in to them personally but want the people who were definitely right there to be controlled? I recall Gerry saying he wanted to stay in PDL to ahem "control the investigation". The word control and Gerry sit very well together, I would just add the proverbial "freak"!.

Nancy, the LP will most definitely have the McCanns statements given to the PJ, in fact I believe they will have a much bigger file than the PJ because they carried out further investigations which they would not disclose to the PJ, I feel because they did not want this information put into the public domain. As I have said before this is just not how a British investigation is conducted! The LP know it would be a waste of time interviewing the Mcs again as suspects because I am sure their lawyers have already pointed out, just like Kate on 7/9/07 they will exercise their right to silence and have nothing else to say!

Rosie, almost completely cleared her blog of any comment on Maddie and then announced there would be a nice little surprise announcement, it is still interesting how this person always seems to be one step ahead on the McCann propaganda! Producing an aged image of Maddie is no more than what we have all said they should have done and is perhaps to counter the disastrous publicity stunt of releasing cute little pics this Christmas of Maddie, aged 2. In short the usual cynical, self serving crapola!

Wizard

Gerry and Philo clearly made comments in the early stages meant to imply that if anyone was responsible it was nutty screaming Kate who just couldnot be left alone with the kids. As you say, if he was aware that she had actually lost it and killed Maddie there is now way he would chance her losing it again with the twins. Further proof, if we need it, that he is the root cause of what happened to little Maddie!

xxx

viv said...

Niki, Rog interviews available at:

http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=27060

Niki said...

Thank you for the link Viv!

I started of reading Dianne Websters interview...

All this time we talked about how she could sit still when the alarm rang, and here is the answer! Her daughter Fiona told her to stay where she was!


DW: "Well I don’t know, frightened or absolutely, well, it’s very difficult to take in when something like that, you know, you’re just sitting at a table having what was a nice meal and err everybody just, you know, stopped what they were doing and just got up and Fiona said to me you know, I said what do you want me to do and she said you stay there in case err you know if Madeleine, because at that time we didn’t know what had happened because I think Gerry had sort of said to Kate oh she can’t be, you know. Err so I, I stayed at the table in case Madeleine had wandered off and she might come looking round the restaurant. Err this is when it gets all a bit confusing because I’ve no idea how long I, I stayed there. I don’t, I don’t think it was that long and I know that at one point, again, this wasn’t in my original statement, Dave did come back to the table and say can, can you just go back to the apartment, but all this is very, very, very vague and I know when I left the table I went, I did go into err Kate and Gerry’s err apartment, which was just absolute err just terrible.”

PC: "What did you see when you got there?”

DW: "What did I see? Well Kate and Gerry, Gerry was absolutely, absolutely distraught, absolute, you know, I mean I’ve never heard a man make the noises he made, err and Kate, Kate was just err you can’t, you just can’t put into words how they were I mean they were just, I remember I went through into the room where err where Madeleine was sleeping and err and she said you know, somebody, you know, she’s been taken because she said that the shutters and that had been open, the window open. Err the twins were still asleep in the cot and I, with all the noise going on I don’t know how they slept through it which makes me think there was, they must have been err drugged with something.”

hope4truth said...

That was intresting Nikki

Diane Webster was told to stay at the table???

Sorry but if someone had just anounced that Madelien had been taken from the apartment (not wandered off the shutters had been forced and she had been taken)!!!!!

And this hopeless old Granny dosent think "My Grandchildren oh my god are they safe?" no she is told to stay where she is and does not move...

None of the parents in that sick little cliche bothered checking their own children were alive and well but in the same situation (which would never happen) but suppose I did not put my children first... I dont think there is a single thing I could do to stop my Mum running back to our own apartment to check on her Grandaughters...

The more I read sadly I think they all know just what happend to poor Madeleine and something very sick is keeping them all quiet...

xxx

nancy said...

And what sort of a caring father is O'Brien anyway - leaving his child who 'he said' had been sick and needing attention, changing the sheets for instance, which was denied later by the holiday staff, and he then went back to the tapas bar to eat! Or was it something else he was up to and nothing to do with his daughter being sick. After all,if she had been sick, how would he have known that she wouldn't wake up and be sick again.

I'm not saying the LP's didn't grill these doctors enough, but I think the anti-McCanns could have given them some questions to answer that would have made them splutter even more than they did with the LP's!

Trying to synchronise their time checks on the 3rd is relevant of course, but they could easily have lied and said they checked when in fact they didn't. They could also pretend they didn't remember the times exactly. You just can't believe a word what they say.

As for the McCann's right to silence, I think it would have had more clout with the public if they had refused to answer the LP's questions rather than the PJ's somehow.

And I agree Viv; Gerry is much more involved than anyone else - he took the reins right from the beginning, especially getting the media network involved, photocalls and celebrity jaunts arranged. He is definitely the leader of the pack and Kate is the follower.

nancy said...

Hello Hope -

I think Diane Webster knows a lot more than she's letting on. No woman of her age would be that gullible. We only have her word for what happened, but I think she was right in assuming the twins had been drugged. I think that is what the whole crux of the matter, except of course, she believes the abductor drugged them. Can you imagine a predator somehow getting into the apartment and then stopping to drug the children. They must think we are all brain dead if we are to believe that! If they were drugged, in my opinion, it was Kate and Gerry or maybe one of the other doctors who drugged the twins and gave the lethal dose to Maddie!

Wizard said...

Hi Nancy – I was just about to post when I saw your post.

I think you could well be right for the following reasons.

Diane Webster tells us when she enters apartment 5A sometime after Madeleine went missing and it was in pandemonium but comments the twins remained asleep and didn’t wake up she thought they might have been drugged. Could this be the key to this whole sorry saga M was given a higher than usual dosage to keep her quite and she died due to this administration. The cover up was necessary because the cause of death was an overdose and the parents or those that supplied the drugs could well be charged with manslaughter. The blood splatter was caused during aspiration. Other members of the party inadvisably cover up because they are also guilty of the same conduct but their children didn’t die - one of the T7 might have also have supplied the drugs and O’Briens name jumps to mind.

hope4truth said...

Hi Nancy

DW is a pathetic woman I think she stayed where she was because she knew what was going on I think they all did (it has taken me a long time to belive they all knew about it) but the statments are very dodgey and they are covering up for the McCanns...

If any of them for one minute had belived that Madeleine had been taken they would have been back in their apartments taking care of their children and probebly holding them tight and feeling guilty that they are so happy their child is safe and well and wondering what they can posibly say to Kate and Gerry to comfort them...

But no they never bothered checking and DW just had a few more drinks...

I think the characters in Shameless have more compasion and love for their children than the Tapas 9 who have shown none for their children and Madeleine has been taken out of the picture as the victim and St Gerry and Kate have replaced her...

Who deserves parents like that?

Wizard said...

Doctors in my experience are usually reasonably articulate so I find it amazing how they all have difficulty stringing a sentence together when out of their comfort zone. O’Brien's interview has him sounding like a inmate from One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest.

viv said...

Hi Niki, thanks for the a/c of Diane Webster.

Clearly the policeman was wanting her to say what did you see in the room, not just a description of the howling noises Gerry and Kate were making, convinced in those first few moments, in spite of the door being left open "she had been taken". But Diane avoids providing the evidence that she had been taken:

she said that the shutters and that had been open

so what she is actually saying is that Kate told her the shutters HAD been open, they were not at that point! Now the thing is, Kate and Gerry would have waited for the police to see these opened shutters, because they are clearly not stupid. Of course we know the only finger prints they found were Kate McCanns. This does not mean she messed with them that night, it just means she may have opened them during the holiday which indeed would be quite a normal thing to do! But there were no fingerprints or indeed glove marks on the shutters from the outside. In any event why would he need to climb through the window if he had been watching their every move and knew they left the patio door open, not that they did, that is just a convenient way of trying to suggest an abduction to cover up what I believe was a murder.

Sometimes, when people are completely horrified, they quite literally freeze with terror, they just cannot move. From all the descriptions they give us, they all immediately rushed off, there is no suggestion Fiona hung around to thoughtfully suggest her mom stay there. I believe she was froze in horror. You cannot have spent time with Gerry McCann like she had on that holiday and see the total disregard of their so called friends, even their children, and not have a very clear idea what sort of person he is. The Paynes were not dumping their children day and night from what I can gather. Ms Webster is an older woman who will have seen a lot of life and no doubt be pretty shrewd when it comes to assessing someone's nature and character. I dont think she was actually that surprised to hear something happened to Maddie, she was just completely horrified.

viv said...

Bit like the Barn Owl who, reputedly, makes that terrifying shriek when it silently swoops over a mouse, the mouse then just freezes in terror!

viv said...

Wizard:

O’Brien's interview has him sounding like a inmate from One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest.


Well indeed but have you read David Payne's interview, that, in many respects, is even worse. In fact I had to try and read it in portions because I just could not bear the endless you knows erms etc, quite often three on just one line. I guess it is difficult to be articulate in those circumstances but I am surely they generally are. Well I am not sure, but surely:-)))

viv said...

Nancy, and that is another very strange thing about what OB says, gosh there are lots But

he gets very upset about the media slating him for not asking for clean sheets for Evi. He says something like well excuse me this was not a third world apt and men are not that stupid, there was a washing machine. After having washed Evi who had a bit of sick on her with the shower in the bath he washed the COT sheet off. Now hang on a minute, have you ever tried to put a child, nearly four in a cot. Or have I got Ella and Evi mixed up? I thought Evi was the older one Maddie's friend? I will check but this did strike me as highly odd. Also if you took the cot sheet off and put it in the washer what did they then do, put the child back down on the rubber mattress???

Are children more amenable if they are stuck in a cot?? There is a lot of talk of moving cots and Payne going to the Mcs apt that first night as the Mcs were moving all the beds around, as indeed he was. Why have one child in with them, another in on her own and then the mother sleeping in the l room. The police are overly interested in these sleeping arrangements. I am afraid. Stuart Prior was also very anxious the PJ DID NOT release details about sex offenders. The more I read these statements, particularly of Payne and OB, the more upset I become and think my worst fears I have always had may well be correct. I really never wanted to be right about this though. I just hate to think of what little Maddie may have suffered, before she died.


xxx

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

".... but I am surely they generally are. Well I am not sure, but surely."

lol -thank you for the T9 speak.

viv said...

You just get the impression David Payne is not overly struck on his mother in law. Did Fiona want to make sure the children were safe?

viv said...

Hey Wiz man you know erm like but yea, it, it, it, erm, tut, comes ahem quite naturally to er them errrm I mean me.

I note how when very stressed and Fiona does this too, the same word gets repeated many times, they just cannot quite spit it out. The overdosing the children theory is very plausible and would completely explain why they all want to cover up. Their jobs, their kids ahem accessories.


xx

viv said...

We do have clear evidence after all the twins were drugged, even Gerry says so, and he should know:-)))

It probably does help if we take the givens when trying to assess just what happened, but I have always thought it may be the twins were drugged to get them out the way/ because they may have seen something horrible or they were not allowed to see something horrible.

Wizard said...

Viv, the drugging theory does seem to fit all the facts as we know them and would explain why Gerry can go to work quite happily knowing no harm will come to the twins.

viv said...

It is in the papers about how the government are covertly hacking into criminal's computers. It would be very useful if they could prove that Gerry McCann is an anonimous email sender, e.g. to the Met Police re Belgian paedophiles. Or was that Kennedy? It is strange but you often do get the pot calling the kettle black, offenders love to turn the tables and project what is horrible about themselves onto someone else. I suppose it is about survival and trying to live with yourself which for a paedophile or a child killer must be difficult, unless you are a complete psychopath and just have no empathy, no remorse, no concern. Everything can be easily justified and explained. Whatever incriminating evidence there is has an innocent explanation. Hey you know I even wonder why Gerry came back from Britain on about 27 May with Clarence in tow, they were such good mates from the off, seemed to have so much in common. That may have just been the natural inclination to lie, deceive and in the process make lots of cash and improve their self esteem! Money = power to such people and little children are so easily overpowered and expendable, apparently. Hence they have no compunction in seeking to turn Kate and Gerry into the victims in a way they feel they are, people are so nasty about them!

viv said...

Hi Wiz

But how could a qualified anaesthetist overdose her own child?

Good job even when the twins were only two they never saw fit to put them down for an afternoon nap:-))

It is hard to imagine that there are people who think so much of their me time and their sport they would actually drug their kids to make sure they can do that, but there are far worse scenarios. I can just remember really being happy because my kids were happy, curiously peering into a rockpool or whatever! It is hard for people like us to see through their eyes but that is what I actually trained to do!

xx

Wizard said...

Viv - I think it was Dr_Val on the DX who said many moons ago that Kate was not a qualified anaesthetist but worked only in the anaesthetic’s department of a hospital.

I’m not a great fan of doctors in general as they do make a lot of mistakes and this could have been one of them. Or am I just being too kind?

Niki said...

I have to say, after reading all of Dianes interview, that I found her quite ..dull??..., and really do belive that her daughter told her to stay where she was. Maybe because she was the one and only of the T9 that did not know what was going on, and the others needed some minutes to run around in the appartment, destroying evidence/ leaving dirt on just cleaned tiles?

Anyway, she also tells of a picture she just got (in April?) of Payne, O'Brien and Oldfield that had been windsurfing on the 3.May. Why send a picture of three men in wetsuites to a elderly women? Your mother in law? Must be to "refresh" her memory, making her a witness...

DW: "Right the, the morning was the last tennis lesson and err my tennis suddenly improved and then after that, again I would have just gone back to the apartment and showered and whatever, err Fiona and Dave were err I’m trying to remember if that was the day that they were err supposed to be windsurfing but it was too rough and they did go out instead or whether that was another day. Sorry I can’t, I can’t remember that bit. Lunch, lunch we would have had in the apartment, now the other thing I remember is because Scarlet and Lily at that point both had an afternoon sleep, there’d be certain amount of time each afternoon spent in the apartment err…”

PC: "Was that for you or for David and Dianne, or took it in turns?”

DW: "For, for err well David and Fiona. I mean Dave might be out doing something. Sometimes the men would go off and play tennis in the afternoon because you could actually go and book a court and play tennis. Err so I mean there was always somebody in the apartment, it was generally Fiona I would say, and err and I would be there as well on call I think and the children were having their afternoon nap. So afternoon activities wouldn’t start until they’d had their nap err and that particular day err Dave I know was windsurfing in the afternoon, I’ve just got a picture of him walking out of the sea in his wetsuit. Err and err Russell and Matt took out a boat because I remember err Russell, who doesn’t know anything about sailing, had to rescue Matt.”

PC: "Yeah he’s told us all about that, yeah.”

DW: "Yeah, again I’ve got a photograph of them on the beach after that, so after the, after the girls had had their sleep we obviously went down to the beach err and we all went down apart,

Niki said...

Viv, sorry,,, should have read the O'Brian interview first, to stay more on track with your topic...
Will do that tomorrow, now my eyes are sore of reading, trying to get updated:-)

Have a good night:-)
Niki

Niki said...

Wizard,
I HOPE the scenario was like you describe.
I do not have the stomach to even imagine children being abused by someone they know, (or being kidnapped by pedophiles)...
Sadly, we all know it happens all over the world all the time...

Now I'm off!

nancy said...

Viv -

As far as I remember Evie was Maddie's friend as she was the same age more or less. There is no way a child of 4 would sleep in a cot withouta huge protest, so perhaps Evie got worked up about it and made herself sick!

When you think about it, with all that jumping up from their meals, toing and froing all over the place to see if the children were alright, sick childen, Oldfield was sick, well they would have done better to have brought in some food and had it together in the apartments where at least the children would have been safe.

They didn't really have much chance to 'get into each other' did they? Maybe they did because maybe it's all lies!

What a load of b......t! And we are supposed to believe it!

Off now, so see you all tomorrow!
Enjoy the rest of the evening.

JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE!

viv said...

Niki, you do not have to stay on topic, oh and by the way if you want to read the whole of the OB's interviews you will need to set several hours aside:-)))

He was treated with due deference by Leicester Police allocating him two officers and two days, that must have been nice for you Russell, you are special! He was even allowed to go through the statement from the first interview on the 8th (on video) and change it all. The thing is they wanted him to sign a written statement as well as be on video all of which are evidence in the case, but when you sign a statement you are saying it is true, so how bad is it going to look for him when he was changing everything he had just said, and after having a chat with our Jane and God knows who else. If you sign a statement and say it is true you are also signing to say that you understand perfectly well if it is false you are likely to be prosecuted! Cold sweat hey Russ! I only remember ever having one of those just once, silly really, I was waiting to be induced for my first baby. Have since been through far worse than that. I hope you learn to be equally as brave, Russ.

It is very sad that children being abused by someone they know is the most likely situation children face and indeed a common one, as you say Niki, the world over. There are no race or class distinctions for child abuse. In fact child sex abusers are frequently professional men, when attending for probation they stick out like a sore thumb and in prison too! They are not generalised offenders, they are perverts..probably would not dream of stealing a bar of chocolate but ..

Nancy thanks darling I do think I am right about that, he was talking about a four year old child, being in a cot, and curiously just never mentioned the other one at all! I suppose they are not so interesting when they are babies, when aged 3 and over, that is another matter, to some.

I have not looked at a cot for a while but I just cannot imagine the average four year old being able to lie down in one. Take Maddie 3 feet tall! How long is a cot?

A lot of people have noticed that memories seem to be especially dim as to what happened on the Monday, all this talk of well he was not there because he was sick etc. hummm

Nite Nite all! and to you Claudia if you are around, have missed you last few days, I know you were just going back to work which I can remember does cause jet lag!

xx

Cláudia said...

Hi, all. And Viv. :-)
You're right, I'm suffering from the 'back to work' syndrome. :-)
The amount of 'erms' and 'hmmms' by these people is just unbelievable. I have to keep reminding myself that these people are mostly doctors and not teenagers. They're either really stupid or have a lot of problems with their own versions of facts.
As for the pictures of the 'older' Madeleine, I think it is just pathetic. And I won't even comment on the 'explanation' for the 'smile'.
Do you think Poops will shortly announce to the world that she found Madeleine safe and sound?
Boa noite, all!

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

Well of course doctors normally make very clear and lucid witnesses, except of course when they are at a police station being videoed which is highly unusual and trying to remember Gerry's instructions to them, as they go along. I have said before Hun, if he came and knocked my door and I happened to answer it, I would be in fear myself. I mean I just do not think he would like me,he likes to put on an act and we can see through that act. We can see in that pic that he is not really such a sweety either! They say that psychopaths put on a mask of sanity but when that mask drops,, well it certainly did that time. I would love to know what really provoked such utter fury! I suspect it was just a press photographer, so no need to think he is not easily roused..just they are not following his agenda would be more than enough. Same with the TAPAS, one can just imagine what he might have said, well you know if you don't support me and Kate you do realise you are going to do time and lose your careers too. Listen to me I can make this all work out fine, I have already set up a great fund and we are getting so much dosh paying for lawyers and others to help us will never be a problem, trust me.

Hum, well I bet they rue the day they decided to get in bed with your Gerry. Because they will never have a normal life again, will they. I bet they wish that just like Greece apparently the previous year, you did not go. That was happy uneventful, so far as we know, holiday. Who is going to want to go on a group hol with the McScams now, if they threw the Fund at them people would still run a mile!

anyway good to hear from you Hun, do not work too hard.

luv Viv xxxxx

viv said...

Oh as for the Pros and their announcement, maybe we stole their thunder. But please, Christmas week, Maddie is back to being a cute little two year old, new year she aged four years but still managed a weak smile.

They are sick and depraved and will go as far down that sewer as they can just trying to come up smelling of violents, whoops I mean violets

xxx

dylan said...

Morning guys!

I have been reading but don't seem to get around to posting anything as you've all done such a good job that there's not much I can add!

The only thing I thought of was that I agree that, somehow, everyone who was part of the "pact" was involved, and I think it is likely that that is because they were all habitually sedating their tots. I think this because for that to happen [the pact], they were doing something that they knew was professionally wrong and that a) they could all lose their careers, and b) could be charged with in the future. I do not think there is any way these people would have stuck up for the McCanns if this were not the case.

I also recall that Kate went to listen to see if the twins were still breathing. A very odd thing to do, IMO, unless there was good reason for her to suspect there may have been a problem. This behaviour of Kate's was certainly indicative of a fear that the twins may face the same danger as Madeleine and if, as the McCanns claim, Madeleine was abducted, why would Kate be worried about the twins' breathing?! All very suspicious....

As for the interviews, I have never read such a bumbling script before! I think it was Nancy who pointed out that he seemed nervous. Reminds me of when I was a child trying to talk my way out something I'd done wrong when questioned by my father. hmmmm....!

Hope you have all had a good start to the New Year.

xx

nancy said...

Good morning everyone! I hope all your pipes haven't frozen up with all this snow and ice!

Hi Dillon,

Thanks for your New Year wishes and I hope you had a good start too. I'm sure when you go out you are are shivering in the snow - I'm just on my way out and will certainly be wrapping up like the abominable snowman!

Kate testing to see if the twins were breathing certainly looks very fishy, bearing in mind the fact it was just after Madeleine disappeared and she wouldn't have been thinking in terms of them all being drugged at that stage surely! I seem to remember someone (i.e. Gerry) saying that later on.

I can't remember who it was remarked about her doing that, but I think it was one of the Nannies from the creche if my memory serves me right.

viv said...

Hiya Dilly and Nancy, our outside water pipe did freeze the other night because the builders have left the lagging off but having given it a little taste of the blowlamp all was sorted and it is now very heavily wrapped. Good job, given that even this morning it is minus 3 here. I tried to put some primroses in pots where other plants had died the other day, what a silly idea that was, the soil was of course frozen solid.

To me the evidence does not actually suggest that the Paynes were drugging their children or were selfishly determined they could dump them in bed early at night or that they were dumped in the creche all day every day. They put them down for an afternoon nap, which is a kind and reasonable thing to do with little tots and for that reason were habitually late on parade each night whilst trying to settle their kids. Whether there was a better standard of child care is because mother in law was there I am not sure but I do think she has the least degree of involvement. The knowledge came to her and she was persuaded probably to go along with it by David and Fiona simply because Maddie had disappeared as a result of child neglect which they were clearly also engaging in by leaving little tots alone with not even a check, but just an electronic device. It really beggars belief that you could be sure your kids were safe just because you couldnot hear them on a baby monitor.

We are given this picture of two twins seemingly drugged tots, her parents howling with very loud animals noises but they did not wake up. We are told each sat on the laps of Fiona and Kate, it is a little odd to think of her howling and bouncing off walls whilst doing this. But, what is really odd is that you have a trained anaesthetist, Fiona, and another who has at least worked in anaethetics, Kate. That apparently is how they became friendly. So they "know" that Maddie has been taken by an abductor and they know the twins appear drugged. Then why on why I ask myself did neither of them think it appropriate to check either of the twins to see if they were OK/had been drugged? I am not medically trained by I understand the first thing a doctor would do is to check the pupils. I know from my own drug training you can certainly differentiate between say heroin or cocaine/amphetamine use in this way, i.e. heroin small "pinned" pupils, cocaine/amphet wide and dilated pupils. Kate and Fiona do not examine the children but Fiona actually points out that Kate repeatedly checked their breathing. So she knew there was something wrong with them but did not wake them up and give them a proper examination. I understand a medical examination by the police was also refused but do not know whether we have evidence to back this claim. Surely no need given the array of doctors they had right there. By her actions Kate is demonstrating she KNOWS there is something wrong with them that she is very worried about and it certainly adds credence to the suggestion this is what actually killed Maddie. According to Kate they were shattered even as early as 6 pm ! When you read all the evidence though I believe Maddie was dead before 5 pm. OB keep remembering to drop back (on one occasion he forgot) that he rushed back up to the creche from the beach around 5 pm to get Evi out the creche BEFORE they took her to high tea. In that way he was able to point out he just did not see Maddie that afternoon, although er yea but she may have been at the creche, but 11 months on blah blah but actually hand on heart cannot say she was. To me this fits with how clever Gerry thinks he is, he has an alibi from about 6, he was playing tennis. He said he sent Payne to check on Kate but this is not how it has come out, in fact it would clearly seem, according to his wife Fiona that he simply went to play tennis with the others. I do think Gerry had been on the phone to OB for the creche business and probably then all of them to go play tennis. They suggest they were not really bothered to go but he needed them to alibi him. I think Fiona does give us a few subtle clues as to what really took place. She is a canny lady, caught between supporting her mate and supporting herself. But why did she do that? On the scale of criminal conduct what she did in leaving her kids wouldnot have got her anywhere near a custodial sentence IMO, particularly if she had told the truth. So what other reasons can there be, that it brings us back to the reports of her husband's conduct!



xx

hope4truth said...

Hi All

I think the aged picture with a slight smile is bloody discusting to say she will not be totaly misrable where she is is sickening to the core...

It is like watching the NSPCC advert looking at all those teribly sad children (I know they are actors) and saying oh I bet on the days they arnt abused they have a great time lets not donate...

What is it about Madeleien that people think she deserves no respect?

Even her Father says she has not been harmed and at the same time insists she is in the hands of a peadophile ring...

It beggers belief that these two sickening parents and their 7 sickening friends are alowed to be anywhere near a child something happend on their "Family" holiday that is being covered up and they all bloody know it.

If they cant be bothered to speak up for Madeleine then god help the rest of the children... If (and I dont know what happend) but GERRY has made it plain that Kate is never alone with the children so it is him I am using as the source for my next comment... But if Kate did loose it and kill Madeleine (I always went with over sedation myself)then what if she does it again to one of the twins? Are they not special enough to need protection?

The statements are daming because if I had been there every movement that evening would be etched in my memory no errrrs mmmmmms needed there is no loyalty in defending your friends if a child is missing and if you think she may be dead then you owe it to your friends to tell the truth so they dont have to feel guilty for the rest of their lives or live in fear of that knock at the door...

It is comming the picture in the Star was mentioned today and the comment from someone who knows she went missing and that is that "How awful to sugest she could be happy! I reckon the parents killed her" people around agreed as did I and the longer this goes on the more people will look at their odd behaviour realise Kate did not care a jot as she answered no questions and their fund will dry up...

Which is sad because it could have been used to help other familys who really have had a child abducted...

nancy said...

Hi Hope

I think you are right of course. 'Everything on that holiday would be etched in your memory', especially the last time you saw Madeleine, who was the focus of attention then and still is all this time after - a bit like remembering where you were when Kennedy was assassinated, or where you were when the twin towers came down.

Viv - Sorry to hear about your poor primroses, but good news that your pipes are now unfrozen!

If a predator is determined to take a child he will not risk that child crying and would definitely put a hand over the child's mouth, so using a baby monitor would not make any difference in that situation.

The Paynes were lucky to have her mother with them to help with the children but I still don't understand why they allowed her to sleep on the sofabed or why the two girls didn't sleep in the same room, unless of course the younger one was not a good sleeper, in which case they shouldn't have left them in the first place.

I know if I had been there with my young grandchildren, I would have stayed with them while my daughter and son in law went out, something which most grandmas would do - I wonder why she didn't do that. Did they want her away from the apartment do you think?

Nx

hope4truth said...

Hey Nancy

You have just made me think...

Did DW stay in and look after the children every other night??? If she did but had to be on parade on the 3rd only it is another damming thing...

We always took it in turns to go back to the hotel room when the girls were small (and even though they are now 13 and 15 I would still not want them home alone in a flimsy hotel room with strangers all around....

In saying that after a full day at the beach or by the pool I was more than happy to cut the evening short and go to bed...


xxxx

nancy said...

Hope -

I don't know the answer to that, but I am surprised the police didn't ask the Paynes if DW went out with them every evening. If she did, I just think it's very strange. I'm sure her daughter and son in law thought to take her along on the holiday to help with the children, which most grandmothers would do.

After a day on the beach, tennis etc, and obviously helping out with the little girls, you would have thought she would be more than happy to stay in and watch telly or sit on the terrace and read a book while the children slept. After all she didn't have a lot in common with the others. But then perhaps she's not the normal type of doting grandmother, just like the tapas lot are not like normal loving parents!

And just why did she stay rooted to her chair? I have a feeling she was told to stay put in case Maddie came along, but that was just an excuse to keep her there.

viv said...

Morning,

HOPE, I have not seen the aged pic and am going to try and avoid it because I know it will really upset me, it is a sick and bizarre response to us pointing out they issued pics of Maddie aged 2, this Christmas. But, the fact they always do need to respond to the evidence against them, proves just how much it gets to them! Nothing more of course than the evidence of those dogs!

I do understand what you mean, Hope, the show her no respect, they mercilessly cash in and come up with the most sickening comments to excuse themselves. There is an absolute host of them and now they realise they should say no more, too late I am afraid!
I frequently just had to pinch myself and just say, can this be real, are they really saying and doing all these things. If a creative writer had written a book along the lines of this case it would just be dismissed as being utterly far fetched! What happened to Kate and Gerry's claims they were having a book written and negotiating film rights, did they finally realise the public just could not stomach that. The fact they countenanced such a sickening idea gives us a true indication of what this couple are really like, and their complete contempt for little Maddie.

I think Gerry knows very well that the twins are not at any risk of harm from Kate, Maddie did not die, because she lost it. That was just something he and Philo put into the public domain to cover for him if everything went really pear shaped. I truly believe this, given he made it clear at the outset she was alone with the kids at the relevant time and he even saw fit to send Payne to check on her.

The Fund, what odd wording it will used for others when the objects have been fulfilled of recovering Maddie, that speaks for itself really. No child will ever benefit from what the McCanns conned out of decent people who thought they were contributing to a proper search for Maddie, not for witnesses to be bribed to say they had a sighting of Maddie, which they remember some days or even months later!

Nancy, that poor tray of lovely primroses I bought, I give up!

You have both made me think, why did the Paynes just have a baby monitor so there was no need to actually check the kids were OK? Was that DP's idea? If he was back in the apt he could have just pulled the plug I suppose and Fiona, would still, hear nothing..the sleeping arrangements were very odd and something the police were clearly very interested in, but of course Stu Prior has hushed that up! If children are at risk then would have to take action, even if it is actiont that we know nothing of because it is taken by SSD.

I entirely agree Nancy that is so often the reason that nans go along, so they can let the couple have a break and go out, whilst nan looks after her babies which nans love to do. It is frustrating sometimes when reading the police questions about the ones that did not get asked!

dylan said...

Good morning all!

Viv, I sometimes wonder if you ever sleep?! Usually you are up posting until the early hours and then again at 8am!!

I am still confused as to the group's motives for covering for the McScams. As you say, it can't be the neglect, because neglect (although bad enough) by itself, would carry no sentence, or certainly less than perverting the course of justice. (not sure if that is the correct terminology?). Also, they would all have known that the neglect would have been exposed, with or without the truth about Madeleine getting out.

I can see that Fiona may be willing to be compliant because of her husband, but the rest of them? I must confess that I haven't read all of the statements because I haven't had time yet, so maybe I should before say anymore! I just find it all very puzzling and the notion that all of the tots were sedated just seems to fit the picture better. I think I had better read the statements asap!

Have a good day all, & Viv, try singing to your primroses whlst they await potting. I think primroses may be partial to "Spring is in the air"! ;-)

xx

viv said...

Hello Dilly I had an early night last night 11.30 so was up again at 6 ish! It is usually the other way around:-)))

Hiya Dillie, I agree, whilst much was made of the neglect, certainly in the UK it would definitely not have attracted a criminal sentence. Far more likely to have been dealt with by intervention of SSD. Perverting the course of justice is the correct terminology and you are right it is a heck of a lot more serious, one only has to look at the case of Maxine Carr to understand that. She was nowhere near when Holly and Jessica were murdered but she lied and assisted an offender, rather than the police. That is what got her a big jail sentence and the scenario is just the same, the police are dealing with the most serious case of all, the death of a child. On public policy grounds anyone who does that is going down.
So why on earth would they risk having their lives completely ruined in this way? I think that just demonstrates how serious this case actually is and that some of the TAPAS group may well be principal offenders themselves.

I wonder why Kate and Gerry did not go to Greece with all of them the previous year and what all these other group holiday were that they had booked around the time they actually went to PDL? When they did go to PDL the impression we are given is they just did not want to be a part of that group, other than at night..Breakfast and lunch alone, playing tennis whilst they are on the beach, very odd! Why bother??

If the primroses heard me sing Spring is in the Air they would keel over yet more than they already have due to not being able to get any water! Totalled¬!

xx

viv said...

Rohypnol
(roofies, 'date-rape' drug)

Rohypnol is a prescription-only sedative that has been used in many 'date rapes' in the US, with cases now being reported in Europe and Australia.

Rohypnol's medical use is as a pre-operation anaesthetic or strong sleeping pill, but stronger doses can bring on amnesia. It takes effect very quickly - sometimes as quick as 10 minutes after being taken - and reaches its peak eight hours later when it can render a person totally unconscious. It's about ten times stronger than Valium.

Coming in the form of a tasteless and odourless pill which is easily ground down into powder, rohypnol has gained notoriety as the 'date rape' drug, after victims have been incapacitated and sexually assaulted after having their drinks spiked. All traces of the drug disappear after 24 hours making prosecution difficult. Please note that rohypnol is not the only drug associated with date rape and there have been cases linked to GHB and other sedative drugs.

Rohypnol has also been used in combination with other drugs to enhance the effects of low grade heroin, to mellow the buzz from crack and heroin, and to soften comedowns.

The drug has also acquired a reputation as a party drug, sometimes dubbed the 'love drug'. This is due to its claimed aphrodisiac qualities and because some users say that it gets you more drunk and keeps you that way longer.

It is fairly rare in the UK (although rising), but in the US it has a street price of around $2-4 per tablet.

Side effects: The most worrying side effect of rohypnol is that it can easily be administered without the victims knowledge and lengthy sexual assaults can take place with the victim having no memory of events afterwards. In many cases, victims are even unaware that assaults have taken place until their symptoms are recognised or their memory returns. It's a very nasty drug.

Be very wary of accepting opened drinks from strangers or people you don't trust, even if they are only soft drinks. If you feel odd, nauseous or drunk after only a couple of drinks, leave immediately and go to a place of safety. If you are alone or with a stranger, call friends to tell them where you are and/or go to the landlord or manager and explain your situation. See: drug assisted sexual assault - advice on prevention.

Health risks: Used on its own, Rohypnol is unlikely to be fatal, but when combined with other drugs such as alcohol and cannabis the risk increases greatly - as the drug suppresses the central nervous and respiratory systems, there's a chance that you could stop breathing. Other side effects include hallucinations, vertigo, skin rashes, stomach problems and changes in libido.

Detection periods: Rohypnol passes out of the system in 24 hours.

THE LAW: In the UK rohypnol is only available by private prescription (not NHS) and illicit possession would most likely come under The Medicines Act (we haven't confirmed this yet). In the US recent legislation has made it a Class A drug.

HAVE YOU BEEN A VICTIM?: If you think you have been drugged and raped, check out our legal advice page .

More info: (UK) Roofie Foundation 0800 7832980
Nightclub drinks spiked with drugs (BBC, Nov 2003)
Campaign call over spiked drinks (BBC, Dec 2003)
One in four 'had drinks spiked' (Guardian, Sept 2004)

Di said...

Good afternoon everyone

I hope you have all enjoyed your festivities, I certainly did, even though it was extremely hectic, I don't know where the time has gone.

I have read this thread back, there are some very interesting posts.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have found the rogatory interviews extremely hard work to read. There are so many errs and umms it is difficult to keep track of what the original question was and what the answer actually is, if the question was actually answered at all.

I also feel the Police had so many oportunities to dig further when they received dubious answers, or in some cases completely different answers to their original statements. Why did they not do this?

Viv

I have heard of the above drug from Newspaper reports it is a truly frightening read. Two things stood out for me, it takes 10 mins to fall asleep and one of the side effects is STOP BREATHING, perhaps a reason for Kate to continually check the twins were still breathing.

mandarinn said...

Hi all
IMO Roynol is too strong to be given to tots, but if they gave them something to sleep strong enought to be sure they will not cry again, Madeleine could had an overdose and the parents or some between the the other doctors, could try to save her. As long as i know one thing that is performed in these cases is try to fry the breath by cut the trachea. It would make a lot of blood i think , and explain the blood on the walls and curtains.
What is not explained is why cover
what hapened. They have a lot of protection and people will be mostly with them because of their tragic loose. IMO there are something more dark to cover up...
When in a crime the body is hiden is because the corps could tell something ...

mandarinn said...

* try to free

bath theory said...

Di agree with your words... I also feel the Police had so many opportunities to dig further when they received dubious answers, or in some cases completely different answers to their original statements. Why did they not do this?...

A policeman/womans job is to dispel lies and expose truths.

Di said...

Hi BT

Exactly, I have to say when reading the rogatory interviews I was actually shouting at my laptop, why did the police not ask this and why did they not ask that? Perhaps I watch too many Detective films:o(

Did they dispel lies or expose any truths? We shall see, but imo YES, the whole lot are a bunch of devious liars.

hope4truth said...

Hi DI and BT

I wonder if the police knew it was a load of rubbish and the scum they were dealing with just did not give a damn about Madeleine so did not push to much so they believed thier clever lies had been belived and slipped up...???

They were never going to help the police find out what happend to Madeleine and as there was evidence to show she had died there is no hurry to prove they are all involved in the cover up of her death...

Looking at them standing on the steps of the high court all smug made me smile 6 child neglectors getting their blood money for Gerry these people have shown a discusting side to human nature and one day the knock on the door will come and and they wont look so smug as they are led away in handcuffs...

They can make new statements but the police must have daming evidence against them all none of their storys make sense and those phone records are safe somewhere to be used to show all of thier movements and texts...

viv said...

Hiya Di, it is good to see you back.

If we take the worst possible scenario as to what might have been happening to these children, given that on various nights there seemed to be certain men missing, also given the rather peculiar arrangements made for their care i.e Payne goes into depths to explain they were replicating the baby monitoring service that was not actually on offer; I have tried to wrestle with how could they have been sexually abusing these children and then taking them to a nursery the next day? Clearly a drug like this provides the complete answer, the children would be none the wiser. I am afraid that when you do read the rog interview statements there are just so many indications that this is what might have been taking place. When the officer starts the interview with Fiona Payne he asks her to explain about her job, I am sure he knew the answer, she sedates people for surgery etc. so could perhaps obtain such drugs. I really cannot understand how she and Kate had those two twins on their lap, comotose, and did not see fit to examine them. I wonder if different drugs were used? But drugged they clearly were. David Payne is quite a lot older than Fiona, a noticeable trait of controlling sex offenders is they go for a much younger wife.

Maddie has that nasty rash on her wrist or is it sunburn or is it the mark of restraint as Eco suggested? If it is a rash that is a further symptom of this drug. I have thought on some pictures her eyes look sort of watery and washed out, also she sometimes has some pretty noticeable bags under her eyes for a child who according to Gerry has such regular bedtimes.

I know what I am so clearly suggesitng is the very worst possible case scenario but I just do not think it can be ruled out and most certainly explains the whole pact of silence from this lot. They are just so bizarre, even Fiona's remark something like, well we liked the whole ethos of Mark Warner, adult time and kid time. This suggests something worse than just a total detachment from normal parental emotions. But somehow reading all the statements and weighing everything up I do not think that Rachel and Mat were actually into this kind of conduct, they just neglected their baby. He did not make a check that night. It is just a lie. Gerry, Payne and OB sat desperately working out the timeline before the PJ arrived. OB wrote the first one out on the child's book cover. He made no mention at all of Mat making a check at 9.30. But when the second one was written out with Gerry written on it, Mat is suddenly put down as making this phantom check at 9.30. All of them seem very loathe to recall what went on on the Monday night or which nights some of them were not there, sick etc. I am afraid the reality looks to me like they were vague about this because they knew the waiter would say there always seemed to be a man missing from the table, the rest is history as they say!

bath theory said...

My teaching colleague used to be in the police as a police officer. Her husband who is also a police officer bugs houses now on our behalf to catch criminals and to provide more info and that is why I have said many times the LP police will certainly know what happened and what did not happen on that holiday. They may go running to discuss the case but I think bedroom talk would be interesting in that household.

The police, when a child's death occurs, operate within the guidelines they want to operate in. And as I mentioned before BT use systems that work off specific words and record everything you say after those words so let's face it many poeple outside of this group will know a lot of the conversations that happened that night by mobile and subsequent to the vanishment.

Once again it goes back to the police wanting to do something, being able to do something and the political climate ALLOWING them to do something in my humble opinion.

bath theory said...

Viv
I have often wondered why FP went with DP and married him ? There seems a mismatch there if you knwo what I mean.

viv said...

Also the deviousness of the McCanns in producing pictures of Maddie/ not saying what date they are from/ how old she is etc. That horrible pic of her aged about two in a vampish pose with the photographer standing over her and looking down her top like some girly shot which I will not put on this blog.

It is frankly bizarre the way OB says he was hunting through the holiday pics on the camera for a suitable one of Maddie but could not find one. You would just print the lot wouldnt you, that is if you could actually find a printer at that time of night, complete with 6 x 4 photographic paper. No, he finds one on there several weeks old, it is just too awful really to try and concentrate on their statements.

I have always felt that Maddie was just getting a bit too old and wise, she was soon due to start school, abusive parents make sure they do not get the chance to go and chat with nosy teachers, well aware of their duties towards children under the Children Act etc.

Stu Prior and others specifically went back to Portugal to insist that details of sex offenders etc were not released, I really do fear the worst and think I do understand what a complex operation this is. Many pieces of a complex jigsaw as Sousa told us. What evidence can they get from drugged three year olds?

Di said...

Hi Hope

The fact that the phone records of G & K & the T7 plus the medical records of Madeleine & Kate were not forwarded to the PJ on request has always intrigued me.

Could it be that our Police force were or maybe still, are conducting another investigation against certain member/s of the tapas and the information was too delicate to hand over as it would jeopardize a future investigation.

Or maybe I ate too many mince pies:o(

bath theory said...

Hi Hope & Di & Viv
Will be busy for the next 7 weeks so catching time to speak now. Would like to say Happy New Year even though 2 per cent of the year has almost gone already !!!! Plus I predict Arsenal will win the champions league Di
Off for some CSI relaxation

bath theory said...

JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE IN 2009

viv said...

BT

I am sure GB has been fully briefed and Jaqui Smith has given full authority for every bugging technique they can utilise against this lot, the trouble is they are clearly very aware of that now!

Who else would book a bloody hotel to have a chat about the case, is the McCann's pad not big enough, bug aware!

xx

Di said...

BT

Arsenal...In your dreams.

Happy New Year X

Di said...

Hi Viv

I have had a peek over on 3As ooohh you and TB, one has to ask.

Is it love in the air? ducking as I type ;o)

viv said...

Happy New Year guys, but BT how the heck did you work out that 2 %!

Do not get working too hard!

Forgive me if I am taking it a bit easy with the blog, I am rather sickened since really reading those rogs! I have still not read all of Paynes but his terror is very plain but that makes for a very tedious read!

viv said...

Whooh Di, you naughty lady, that is like red rag to a bull, I will give him Justice for Maddie the sad old git!

viv said...

Speaking of creepy men, what about that McMillan Scott (thinks thats his name:-)) who adopted dear Kate and Gerry took them for jols in Brussels and is so into childrens rights.

I must work on me stereotypical assumptions, it is completely out of kilter with me probation officer training:-)))

viv said...

Di, just seen this one, simply spot on IMO darling:

The fact that the phone records of G & K & the T7 plus the medical records of Madeleine & Kate were not forwarded to the PJ on request has always intrigued me.

Could it be that our Police force were or maybe still, are conducting another investigation against certain member/s of the tapas and the information was too delicate to hand over as it would jeopardize a future investigation.

viv said...

BT said:

Viv
I have often wondered why FP went with DP and married him ? There seems a mismatch there if you knwo what I mean.

BT

I wonder if she had an absent father?

Di said...

Viv

I hope so, I am pinning my hopes on my thoughts this timne.

Something my daughter said to me the other day, Mum you are always right.

Bless her, I wonder what she wants now?

Di said...

Timne

Time to go I think.

Night everyone.

See you all tomorrow.

viv said...

In an way I hate to say this di, but I am just the same.

Before I gave up work I could meet a new offender for about an hour and have them completely sussed:-)))

I remember a young colleague telling me what a lovely bloke this guy was who had been convicted for domestic violence and harrassment, he had taken her in hook line and sinker when she did a pre sentence report on him. His case was allocated to me and when I started to explain and that actually the victim, court and police had not done him wrong, I think she learned a lot! In fact but for her report he would have got the sentence he actually deserved rather than probation!

viv said...

Nite Nite Di

Well I had to cough up for two of them to have a good time new year, who would be a mom eh, I have to hang on to my cash so I can give it to them!

xxx

viv said...

REPORTED AT 23.50??? NO EVIDENCE OF A BURGLARY, A STORY VERY BADLY TOLD..

"This is a story told very badly"


JOSÉ MANUEL OLIVEIRA and PAULA MARTINHEIRA
The disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the English child of three years he was on holiday in Lagos, "is a story told very badly," the source confided to DN Judicial Police of Portimão. The statement reflects the doubts of the evidence against the "confused" expressed yesterday by witnesses throughout the day.

After a day of searches, the authorities have extended the action in Spain. Despite the contradictions in this case, the scenario gets strength of child abduction, disappeared on the night of Thursday the room where the brothers slept with twins, a year younger, tourist resort in The Ocean Club in Praia da Luz

At the time of the closing of this issue, the search continued for over half of the GNR hundred soldiers, backed by dogs pisteiros specialized in the detection of persons and rescue, which was given the blanket pink covering the bed where the little I slept. Since the 16 hours, the media had been reinforced by a helicopter of the National Fire and Civil Protection, firefighters and divers from Lagos Maritime Police.

The PJ is dealing with a case of kidnapping, taking part in the investigations of those responsible maximum Directory of Faro and Department of Criminal Investigation of Portimão. The concern is the widespread feeling among the community and the English population living in Luz, since that night tried to help on their own initiative, the authorities in order to locate the whereabouts of the child. The operation included houses, gardens, swimming pools, apartments, beach and open field (which is about 300 meters from the venture), not only of the light, but also the border areas of Lagos and Burgau.

The disappearance of little Madeleine, which is four years next week, will take place between 21:00 and 22:00 on Thursday. The parents, Gerard and Katie McCann, he cardiologist and her internal medicine specialist, both with around 35 years, residing in Leichester, England, left the three children to sleep alone in the apartment until dinner at restaurant "Tapas", belonging to the venture. According to the GNR said, every half hour one of them would look to the room to make sure it was okay.

It was one of those movements that have for the missing girl. Began to seek it in business, and application support to the group of friends with whom traveled, in addition to the staff of the unit. At 23:50, the couple advised the GNR of Lagos, who appeared at the site 20 minutes later, having started an immediate investigation, cautioned that while the PSP, PJ, Borders and Foreigners Service and Faro Airport.

The parents, who were led to mid-morning for the PJ of Portimão, refused to speak to journalists, but the bodies of information British advanced the idea that the apartment would have been arrombado. However, the leaders of the village and GNR ensure "no evidence of any burglary." |

dylan said...

Evening all (gawd! That always sounds so, well erm.. police on the beat!! - sorry!)

Viv, thanks for the rohypnol heads-up. Absolutely terrifying. What do you think the unsaid, unwritten bond between the T9 is if it isn't sedating the children? I can't for the life of me think why on earth anybody would be willing to stick up for those two at the expense of being charged with a lot more than neglect.

Re the primroses - sing to your heart's content. I do, all of the time and my cats haven't run wailing down the road yet to find a new owner who CAN sing!! I think my neighbours may have a few choice words to say on the matter though!

BT, I'm an Arsenal girl too, though not the Arsenal girl on 3As. Good job Docmac's not around!

Di, great to see you back. Happy New Year to you too. I hope you enjoyed the festive season.

Viv, your comment about sussing an offender out reminds me of my eldest two's dad. He is a confidence trickster if I ever saw one. Reeled me in, hook, line and sinker and still manages to fool people into thinking he's the most generous, loving man in the World. I have recently found out he was earning £120K a year and yet begrudged me the pittance he paid in maintenance for his children. He was one of my major upsets from 2008 (thank God that year is over) and called me a leach to claim CTC and at the very least, I should be able to provide the basics for my kids! Well I had a few choice words to say to him on that count as my children don't go without anything, and I now find that he can't pay his way for them yet again. mmmm, as poops would say - pot and kettle! Funny how he managed to go out to a posh hotel for Christmas dinner yet can't pay for his littlun's. I hope he is proud that my father (a pensioner) has had to fork out on his behalf!

Anyway, antipathy aside, wrt to the burglary article, there are so many ways that it was 'gone wrong'. What I don't understand is how come Kate's were the only prints on the shutter when Gerry was fiddling with them when he, ahem, bumped into Wilson? The pair of them must have tampered with them to see if they could make it appear that the apartment was broken into and tried to wipe off the prints, but accidently left Kate's?

I think I am every bit as confused as I was a year ago!

xx

Cláudia said...

Just wanted to wish you all goodnight.
Things are kind of hectic here. Lots to do.
Have your heard that Mr Amaral is running for mayor of Olhão? :-)
Boa noite!

dylan said...

Hi Claudia,

I know how you feel!

If I were in Portugal, he'd have my vote.

Goodnight to you and goodnight everyone else. Sleep well. xx

viv said...

Hiya Dilly

Well I think they are really rather frightened. Imagine the Portuguese police immediately sayiing that their story was very badly told (such a polite way of saying what a load of cr*p, I love the nice way they put things). Then imagine child protection experts and two Detective Superintendents arriving from the UK, post haste, it pays to remember just how much they must have been suffering by all of this from day one. That is a certain form of retribution because I do not think there could really be a day in their lives that could not be affected by what they have done, what they seek to hide, and oh god when will the police get us? Sheer terror IMO and it serves them right.

Great news on the Primroses, this morning it is distinctly wet and warmer and they have perked their little heads back up, I might even venture out and do the required bit of shoving into pots and throwing out the dead. I know no respect for plants at all, just sit there and look nice or else.

Personality disorder is everywhere and touches all our lives, I am sorry it has touched yours in such a great way. But what you describe is just typical isn't it? I need lots of money because it makes me feel more powerful still, I cannot share that with little children or even my loved ones because it is mine. When will the McCanns share the Fund with other needy children, I am not holding my breath.

What the heck is wrong with claiming tax credits the government brought in to make sure children have everything they need, particularly when absent fathers cannot be bothered to cough up for their own. They are only giving back tax allowances after all that every parent used to get in their wage packet, your ex is probably fiddling his tax and getting away with it. I hope they catch him!

I do think Gerry did not have a problem leaving a few hints that all point to Kate, after all self protection is the key! Me, me, me!

Claudia darling please tell Goncalo I wish him every success and know he will do a great job!

Hey hun he most be so fearful of that criminal case:-)))

Is that nearly done and dusted? I hope there will be some good repercussions there for the gruesome twosome, who let us be frank just do not love Goncalo they way we do xxxx

Love Viv xxxxx

I think Kate's prints would just be on the inside of the shutters anyway as Gerry would well know because I think it is normal to open the shutters and let some air in, leastways it has been for me when in similar accom abroad. None of the TAPAS can actually give any evidence that they saw the shutters open that night! Bullsh*t comes easy to distraught Gerry rattling away on his mobile!

Pot, kettle, black, "gang of Portuguese paedophiles" now there is projection for you:-))) or at the very least, blatant manipulation in action!

dylan said...

Morning all,

Viv, glad your primroses have perked up. They must be afraid that you will "deal" with them if they don't ;-)

I also think that the tapas lot are constantly looking over their shoulders and the silence must be absolutely deafening for them. We know how much the McScams wanted to get their hands on those files, don't we & information wasn't used to find Maddie. The money wasn't used to find her either, it was used to pay people for false sightings and a fraud agency. I agree that it is criminal that the money hasn't gone to help parents who really have suffered an abduction.

As I recall, there is still a memeber of MW staff that has information that was considered so important that he had to be protected. I wonder what it was? They must feel very uneasy that all of this info is still out there and I hope, one day, that one of the T9 breaks their pact silence. Well, they should, if they have any conscience.

I think my ex has certainly fiddled something. Something is very fishy that he won't write that letter and he was sacked from a job abroad, before, when my eldest was a baby, but denied it to me and his family. His wife is the same. Both of them greedy, me, me, me people. Now who does that remind me of?!

Have a good day folks.

xx

dylan said...

Viv, Hope and Claudia,

You have mail (or should I say male?!) I was sent it the other day and it certainly cheered me up!

xx

Di said...

Good afternoon everyone

Viv

I thought you might be interested to read this on 3A's about GA & TB.


link

Wizard said...

Hi Di,

Have just read your link. It appears this case is still alive in Portugal and may well be we will get to the bottom of it. Lets hopes so anyway.

hope4truth said...

Hi All

This case is still live and kicking and may each of the 7 scum parents jump every time there is a knock at the door for not telling the truth about a 3 year old child...

Did anyone see the Bill last night???

A baby was taken from an unlocked house whilst the Nanny was asleep... The Sister of the Father lived up the road and saw a man with a holdall walking up the road at 2 in the morning...

IVF womans husband was working in the house a few months before and they were questioned...

The Nanny had gone out leaving the
baby home alone for an hour and she reasured the police she did not drink but took some Coke...

The parents were supposed to be in a hotel (but were they?)...

The Baby was found dead in the woods last night and it concludes tonight worth watching because any one following the McCanns case it smacks you in the face almost like the writters wanted to show how people Lie about abductions???

8.00 ITV1 tonight xxx

Zodiac said...

Hi all,

Whenever I read any of their interviews I feel like I am on a fairground waltzer and need to get off before I throw up! For a group of people who are supposed to be intelligent they certainly do stupid very well.

Nancy or Niki wrote (sorry can't remember who):

"They want to control all information that is disclosed."

It has been obvious that the arrogant duo thought when the case was shelved (although they say closed) they would be handed all the info and be in control of what they want circulating in the public domain. Well tough luck that did not happen. Why are the UK Press/Media not reporting these interviews to the public? I do hope it is due to ongoing investigations in the UK.


From a post by niki re DW:

"Err the twins were still asleep in the cot and I, with all the noise going on I don’t know how they slept through it which makes me think there was, they must have been err drugged with something.”

Yes makes me think that also. Something I thought when I heard the story on 4/5/07, still think it and GA's book reinforces my belief. Although I do not think it was the phantom abductor of PdL who administered it.

viv wrote:

'Also if you took the cot sheet off and put it in the washer what did they then do, put the child back down on the rubber mattress???'

Viv,

If my memory serves me well I think the apt crime scene photos show the two cots the twins slept on and they had no sheets. I wonder if they were sick also and put back into cots with no sheets.

Zodiac said...

Hope,

I wonder if the Pink Clown and his bosses have demanded to see the second part of the bill you mention in your post to see if they will allow it to be screened tonight!

Di said...

Hi all

Zodiac

Didn't GA mention something in his book about no sheets in the cots, it makes me wonder if the twins actually slept there and were quickly brought back before the police arrived.

I have also wondered why this case seems to be the only one where friends and enemies are not coming out of the woodwork to sell their stories.

Either the editors are refusing to print them for fear of libel, or more hopefully have them nicely locked away for the right time for maximum impact.

Di said...

Hi Hope

Thanks for the info about The Bill, it sounds very familiar indeed.

Di said...

Hi Wizard

Alive & kicking by the looks of things and hopefully here as well.

hope4truth said...

Zodiac

I bet he would have had the power to ban it last year but I think they have lost a lot of support...

It could all be a coincidence but I have a feeling someone involved may have been following this.... I mean who the hell goes out and leves very young children home alone it is cirminal xxx

hope4truth said...

leaves even lol x

viv said...

Hiya guys

Seems I have been neglecting me own blog whilst having a go on the 3 As, shame on me!

Well I have to say I am thrilled to bits about the comments of Goncalo. My interpretation is he is saying things will not get re-opened in Portugal but there is certainly jurisdiction in UK and this could happen.
That just confirms what I have always thought, it was handed back to us because it is so serious, there is further investigation to do and they will be prosecuted here. It is like the Nuneaton guy who killed his wife in Spain, we dealt with him!

I just read a good post by Bren though where she was making suggestions as to what else the PJ could be investigating. The activities of Metodo 3 for example and how this could link back into the Muckers and provide vital evidence against them. It seems very clear to me this investigation was a really good piece of teamwork between the two countries and maybe they do still help us from their end, but the real investigation now is right here. We were talking last night about how they could bug them and as we know the government can and do actually bug people's computers, I do not have a problem with that.

Tony Bennett, oh dear!

xx

viv said...

Di, that was very interesting I did not know Goncalo had said there were no sheets on the twins cots.

I have been amazed when reading the files that everything we heard (practically) turned out to be true. So one of the things we heard was the PH theory that all the children slept in one apt. They must have had some evidence to make them think that? Maybe most of the kids were put to one side and one get left behind..

It is interesting that Kate actually admits she slept apart from Gerry, why did she admit that? Oh I think I just guessed forensic evidence of our Katie in that single bed, waky waky!

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

What is TB up to has he said something about you neglecting this blog????

Plonker xxx

viv said...

I know BK likes boats, nothing too siniser about that with all the money he has, I suppose..

Does anyone know if he has a lady? A Kate lady or a young lady. Crikey I keep expecting some thug to turn up at the door :-)))

But she was in the habit of hanging back after their late night chenanigans to go have a chat on her mobile. That just seems quite romantic to me. I used to out with a private detective and if I was not with him he always used to ring about 11.30 I mean to people ring their mate to have a chat at that time just before you have to go to bed with a gorilla? Or think sod this I am going in the single bed, it does explain all those bruises, but I have not seen any statement confirming the reports of Mrs Fenn hearing her being loud and out of control, was that a myth, I wonder? There is so much of the evidence that is being kept back from us and I keep saying to myself well crikes what we can read is quite bad enough!

viv said...

Nah Hope I have been er ripping into him on 3 As xxxx seriously!

hope4truth said...

Viv

One of the strangest things about this is so many things that were discussed have actually been true and all the times the pros have been there to try and shut us up...

My Noika N95 has gone wonky so I googled a question and was directed to a blog where one person was asking about something and was given the answer. They replied thanks shame they never put that in the manual and were jumped on by two people saying shame you never read yours it is on page 150 and when he came back and said not in mine it is not they kept laughing at him saying it was...

Sock Puppets in action I think and just as bloody nasty as the pros...

xxx

hope4truth said...

Viv

Oh well you tell him LOL...

Did you see the Bill last night it is well worht watching the conclusion tonight xxx

viv said...

Hope some of the things they got really, really nasty about stand out in my mind. The marks to Maddie's wrist and the bruises on Kate, bloody Gerry worshippers!

It actually used to fascinate me on the DE because they were so predictable, it was just normal abuse until you hit a real sore spot, then it was world war 3, you could always tell when you were getting somewhere!

What about that Pedro Silva on Rosie's blog, total flipping Paedo, so close to Pedro, my beautiful Maddie I cant wait for you to come back into loving arms blah blah, I sometimes wonder if they are all men!

viv said...

We not long bought a new telly and I still hardly watch it, what time is it on, is it ITV , is it a McCann themed prog?

viv said...

I got hit not long back on 3 As by the socks, Shubob Sans souci and Doris, mod came in very quick and deleted them all, so that was nice. Shame about they eh Bum21!

viv said...

Oh and then got pm'd by Doris saying I had got Tony Bennett all wrong, I though no love you just confirmed I got him all right!

hope4truth said...

Viv

Something was not right about any of them some of the evidence was in your face like the pictures at the top of the page on what would have been her birthday looking so happy???

The Bill just had an abduction of a baby and it turned out...

The Nanny had left her home alone
had taken coke
the sister of the Dad saw a man walking away at the top of the street with a holdall
A builder who had been there 3 months befores wife had IVF
They tracked his movements by his mobile phone
The Mother has Post Natal Depresion

It was just so close to the McCanns without the parents leaving the child alone (but did they come back in the night?) the baby was found dead in the woods...

Put it this way I dont think it would have been allowed to air last year...

xxx

hope4truth said...

VIV

Yes I think your judgement is a very good one....

xxx

Di said...

Hi all

Viv

The comment from GA about no sheets, I am now wondering if it was in one of his interviews talking about his book, but cannot be too sure, perhaps someone else can remember. I know I have read it somewhere as it struck me as so odd to put the twins to bed without bedding on a cold night.

This is off topic but thought you all might like to hear.

I did tell Doc I would do a bit of digging regarding BK. Not much to report, but as my oh has some people with inside information this is what I can say is rumoured.

BK has moved from Bowden, not Wilmslow as the press reported and is now living in Swettenham too close for comfort:o((

One of his businesses is about to lay off over 300 people.

The reason I am telling you this, is because if I was one of those employees I would be devastated to know that BK has pledged his lifes savings to the McCanns but his loyal staff mean absolutely nothing. IMO

viv said...

8.00 ITV1 tonight xxx

Thanks hope going downstairs to have a look at that! Laters xxx

hope4truth said...

Di

That is very intresting all the money to help two child neglectors get away scott free..

What a lovely man...

Someone made a point earlier about no one selling storys about the McCanns or their friends to the papers (good or bad) yet when Big Brother is on they ruin peoples lives with storys whether they are true or not just because someone wants to be on TV..

Yet when 2 neglecting parents dont help find their daughter nothing???

xxx

Di said...

Viv

If you are talking about BK the benefactor, yes married.

viv said...

Hope thanks darling

Di, that is quite extraordinary, so we now seem to be getting a pattern of sheets disappearing, why would that be? To stop forensic evidence being gathered from them? A four year old in a cot??? - Evi ?? She was sick, he took her nightie off and washed her, ..........How come she was fine when mom was checking only about 15 mins before! Oh I know mom didnt check did she, still the issue of Jane Tanner coming or going or went that night.. There is something seriously dodgy about those two, it is in relation to their so called checks and movements that night where hte most lies seem to be told! I must have another go from the statements on 3 as and get some more stuff up!

It is clear that Gerry Payne and OB were there doing some last minute preps before the PJ arrived.

Thanks for info re BK, I did read he has had a lot of failed businesses, lots of customer complaints and as you say just gets rid of staff with impunity. In fact he buys struggling businesses and then does a hatchet job, but those are all people with real lives who need a job, maybe even love their job, how much devastation has he personally caused to get his 350M fortune - he would be a good friend to Kate Mucker! but maybe I have got that wrong and Gerry is the real connection, right telly!

xx

Di said...

Hi Hope

That was me who raised the question as it is SO not the norm.

Every scandal there is always somone who comes out of the woodwork but with this case NO, WHY?

As I said earlier, I am hopeful the tabloids have all reports tucked away to release at just the right moment.

Di said...

Off as well

See you all tomorrow, enjoy your evening.

hope4truth said...

Well Just watched the Bill and it was not as McCannish as last night although the Mother did have Post Natal Depresion and was there after her baby had died of natural causes (and she had convinced herself she killed her)very very sad but if she had covered it all up for years she would still belive she had killed her baby and still be waiting for that knock at the door...

I am sure if you tell yourself something for long enough you may start to believe it but so much better to tell the truth on day one!!!

xxx

viv said...

Hiya Hope

Very sad and so often untreated depression. I did think when they started to develop about all the trips to hospital and her obsession with the baby's health, oh hello, munchaussen, but no, natural causes. I thought the senior blond detective played a lovely part, presumably utilising her own personal experience, it was very touching. I am sure not all women in so much trouble though would be so lucky to get such a kind detective! Chat with the psychiatrist though for a few seconds and OK right thanks. I suppose that is the problem with fitting it all into the Bill rather than real life, I do hope they would have taken just a bit more time xx

Actually did watch a bit of the Sheffield blues and twos afterwards and there was a marvellous rescue of two overweight men who had falled down a well 40' deep x 8 feet. Don't know whther you saw it but it was brilliant, and full of pathos as they systematically worked against the clock to get them out before they succumbed to hypothermia and shock, badly injured and up to their knees in freezing dirty water. They interviewed them pretty fit and well again and it just reminds us of how lucky we are that we have such dedicated people saving lives and looking after other people 24/7.

Reading on another place, I am rather shocked at the general disparaging attitude towards the police, they do not really blame the McCanns for getting rid of the evidence or the lack of credible evidence, they just blame the police, who of course must produce rabbits out of a hat and just lock these two up! I wonder if they are all so brilliant at work or indeed if they have such incredibly challenging jobs at all!

xxx

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

I was allways taught if I told the truth things would work out well... Never (thankfully) been in a situation where it has been all that important but honesty is the best policy...

Missed the show afterwards but you are right the emergency services do a wonderful job and the police are stuck unless they get witnesses who are prepared to tell the truth and not lie and hide evidence they cant win...

It is just so sick that people cant see a 3 year old little girl is the victim here and make sure she gets the justice she deserves...

xxx

viv said...

Hi Hope


Well that is the problem, the police cannot torture witnesses to get them to tel the truth. If a witness decides their evidence will be a pack of lies then that is their evidence. I think though they have done a good job in showing the inconsistencies, but that still leaves things less than clear.

I think the evidence will have to come from other conduct!

xxx

viv said...

There is a frightening mob, vigilante attitude by some members of another place,

"well what should we do to get Justice for Maddie, sit and do nothing like you".

This is in response to my criticisms of Tony Bennett, that he interferes in the proper workings of justice as he did in the Lubbock case, achieves precisly nothing but self publicity and then cashes in by writing a book about it, in the Lubbock case originally priced at £9.95. That he is now seeking to do the same again in the case of Madeleine. Cashing in on her just like her parents.

There is no appreciation that the criminal justice system is there to protect victims and comprises the police, the CPS and the judiciary, probation etc. people paid to do a job in a professional and impartial way. It acts precisely within a legal framework, there to protect both victims and suspects.

There is no appreciation that justice can also mean the moral arguments about someone's behaviour that is wrong and this is where public debate and analysis of the McCanns conduct comes in. It really saddens me that you have people who are there not because they want to counter Kate and Gerry's spin, not because they want to protect children by getting others to see the light, no, not all, they just want to harp on about stupid government conpiracies and crap/bent Portuguese and British Police officers who are all hell bent on letting off a couple of child abusing criminals. Just what the heck is wrong with these people? They do not have the least little trace of understanding about the proper operation of law but want to put these two in court. When are they going to let the professionals just get on with their job and leave the rest of the public to do what some of us do so well, keep up the moral fight for Justice for Maddie!


xx

nancy said...

Hi everyone -

In response to my e-mail of the 9th December re Madeliene, and instigated by Tony Bennett, I have just had a response from Tim Strevens of the Corresondence Unit of the Attorney General's office saying "deleted without being read" - that just about says it all about democracy in this country!

Hi Viv -

Talking of TB, I don't pretend to know the legal intracacies of this case, as you and he obviously do, and I rarely disagree with your well thought out views, but in this instance I think we have to agree to disagree about what Tony Bennett's motives might be. I know nothing at all about him or any past goings on, but at least he is on Maddie's side, and surely going against what he is doing to find justice for Madeleine only props up the pro's arguments against him. As far as I know the money he is making from his book is to help pay his expenses in printing, advertising etc. I don't think he can be making serious money from it.


Nx

Zodiac said...

Hi all,

The link below shows the crime scene photos. If you scroll right down to the bottom the cots can be seen. I also notice that the shutters are only slightly open. Are we to presume that the abductor closed the shutters behind him whilst holding and abducting a nearly 4 year old child?

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id141.html

Zodiac said...

Just been reading and viewing all of the below from 3 A's about the THE BLUE BAG. OMG!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6qZ5EREZjLA

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg238/miffed_album/Processopdf10page64-KateArguidointe.jpg

From 3 A's scroll down to vid link by Stevo and scroll down to pics from Veritas.

http://the3
arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=27357&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30


I have just had a look at the 48 questions again on:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/48-Questions-Kate-McCann-Faced-from-Portugese-Police/Article/200808115070874?lpos=World%2BNews_2&lid=ARTICLE_15070874_48%2BQuestions%2BKate%2BMcCann%2BFaced%2Bfrom%2BPortugese%2BPolice


2. Did you search inside the bedroom wardrobe? (She replied she wouldn't answer).

3. (After being shown two photographs of her bedroom wardrobe) Can you describe its contents?

No wonder the arrogant barstewards wanted to control the contents of the files!

J4M

nancy said...

Hi Zodiac

I have seen the photos and agree that the abductor would have had to be Houdini to get away with a four year old child, because even though Maddie was small, she was still almost 4 years old and would surely have woken up with the struggle to get out of a small opening. Also the fact that Maddie's pink blanket she used to use was still there rang alarm bells for me. Surely any abductor would have wrapped her in that blanket to take her bearing in mind the weather was cold and she would have been less likely to wake up. And no mother would have had washed cuddle cat so soon after her child disappeared. That is completely unnatural and it would have been the last thing on the mind of a distraught mother.

The whole thing stinks!!

Zodiac said...

'And no mother would have had washed cuddle cat so soon after her child disappeared. That is completely unnatural and it would have been the last thing on the mind of a distraught mother.'

Nancy I totally agree with your post especially the above. I lost a loved one nearly 6 years ago and still have an item of clothing of hers, it still has her smell on it to this day and I would never wash it. I think the whole CC thing is a load of crapola just another prop in their badly scripted soap opera!

viv said...

Hiya Nancy, I am not sure if I understand about the email, you sent it, instigated by Tony Bennett?

I think it is unrealistic to expect the Attorney General's Office to actually comment on a particular criminal investigation. Imagine the scandal if they did and you were a self publicity seeker like Tony Bennett!

He is not on my side, the side of justice and respecting the law, he is on the side of those who like to cash in. It was after all of his interventions in the Lubbock case that he wrote a book, priced at £9.95 and I believe he intends to do the same in the Maddie case. That is about how he interferes in serious criminal cases to make a living.

People make the assumption that nothing is happening in the Maddie case but the simple fact is she is a British child who the evidence suggest was unlawfully killed and disposed of by her parents. As such, homicide cases by British people are never closed but are dealt with in strict confidentiality. If the parents believed that she had been abducted they could make a complaint to LP about that and demand they look for her. I am sure they would publicise that because they do not hesitate to publicise their own ahem searches. The fact they do not confirms in my opinion they cannot make a complaint that Maddie was abducted to our own police and demand they look for her because they know damn fine they are being investigated!

They have even lamely suggested they have ex policemen looking for her, well if they do, why do they not tell us who these fantasy ex police officers are? The reality is they have never conducted any search at all for Maddie, not from the very first night she went missing, when, as we all agree, they would have been running around like headless chickens frantically looking for her. That is just what a normal parent would do, had they actually left her sleeping on her own with the door open and knowing full well, she is a waking little wanderer.

I do not want to get into all the ins and outs about Bennett on here, I have set out the situation very fully on the 3 As and perhaps there it should stay! but I would encourage you to read it, if you have time!

Viv xxxx

viv said...

Hiya Zodiac, that is a very touching posts and thanks for sharing that with us. It just cannot be understated how, as you say, a normal person would just really cling to such a thing, so personal and close to your loved one.

Kate's actions were cold, calculating and very incriminating given she actually washed Cuddlecat just a few days after the dog had smelt death on it. That I am afraid just speaks for itself!

Her actions were also very cynical using CC to carry around with her ro pose as some bereft mom when we know that the actual CC (I believe there were three) was just dumped in a cupboard. It just serves her right that Eddie found it!

Genuine bereft moms do not pose for the press at all, unless asked to by the Police to make an appeal. The appeals the McCs were making were just for themselves, getting away with it, and making a load of cash in the process. In doing so, they clearly demonstrated exactly what they are!

JUSTICE FOR LITTLE MADDIE!


xxx

viv said...

Speaking of multiple CCs, one for each child, do you remember how, on the video, the camera first focusses on one in the cupboard but then pans to another one just lying on the living room floor. That was a very powerful piece of evidence! Particularly when you think Kate always had one with her, hence there were three!

The McCanns are not the overly tidy people I thought they would be!


xxx

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

“Genuine bereft moms do not pose for the press at all, unless asked to by the Police to make an appeal. The appeals the McCs were making were just for themselves, getting away with it, and making a load of cash in the process. In doing so, they clearly demonstrated exactly what they are!”

I think you have summed this up exactly.

Di said...

Good afternoon Viv & all

Viv

I don't know whether you have seen the article on Joana Morais quoted from 24 Horas- This man wants to frame the McCanns, TB of course. An interesting read and would love to know your opinion. Clarence has been contacted and makes his usual threats.

viv said...

Thanks Wizard sometimes being succinct makes a much better point than being verbose:-)))

OMG Di that sounds intesting, going on to one of my fave sites to have a butchers:-)))

Is Bennett going to learn the hard way, just like Kate and Gezza, you mess with the press and they will turn around and bite you on the bum, big time!!

Um I have been wondering why he went to the Portuguese press, could it be the British press think he is a bit of a laughing stock!!

Cláudia said...

Snowing in Viseu! :-)

viv said...

Hello Claudia!!

Well that sounds pretty cold to me!

It has been a much better few days here in UK, sunny and pleasant today and much warmer.

What do you make of this Bennett fiasco:

"to manage to collect enough evidence for the Justice of his country to open a process against the McCanns, holding them responsible over the death of their daughter."

I just ask myself, do we have a legal system in the UK, or do we have the Bennett system, lol!

I find it very interesting that on Joana's blog she is actually reporting two articles the same day from 24 Horas, this one about Bennett and how he vehemently opposes immigration, is very right wing and then one saying Amber Alert is going to be adopted.

I just think to myself as well, which side has demonstrated some pretty incredible racist views? One should never underestimate the creativity of Clarence Mitchell..(!)

Cláudia said...

Hi, Viv.
I don't know enough about Mr Bennett's past to judge his intentions. But I have to say that I'm glad he pisses Team McCann off. At this time, where very, very few people dare to do that, I have to consider it a positive thing. Mr Bennett was kind enough to offer me one of his booklets, which I still haven't managed to finish. I heard they cost 3 or 4 £. At that price, I doubt his making any money. Probably having to put some from his own pocket.
I'll e-mail you in a few minutes.
Still snowing :-)

viv said...

Hiya darling

I just clearly recall that Clarence has been very fond of 24 Horas in the past. As more and more details come out about Mr Bennett and what a bizarre character he is, I just wonder if Clarence and the McCanns are really enjoying seeing many people who want justice for Maddie ridiculed by association with this man and his vigilanteism!

Zodiac said...

Goodbye all.

Read you tomorrow.

Wizard said...

Snowing in Viseu, warmer in Viv’s next of the woods but absolutely freezing in London- roll on spring.

viv said...

Hiya Wizard well it is all very well for me to say how warm it is sat about one metre from the radiator:-))

This person is a recognised pro on the 3 Arguidos, do people remember how often we used to hear that phrase on this blog, until me and Doc booted her off:

She means it is sad because people are being wickedly played but they cannot see it:


precious_ramotswe
Post subject: Re: 24 HORAS - Amaral & Anthony Bennett
New postPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:24 pm
Been Cautioned

Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:02 pm
Posts: 307
londonboy wrote:
You're asking yourself questions Slim which in this instance don't need asking.

There was no abduction, and certainly not one of a live MBM.

I would agree with your points in principle, but it wasn't an abduction, so I think all those points are moot.

No disrespect meant, just my humble opinion.

Tick tock, tick tock.


That ticking clock cracks me up :))

It's been ticking for so long, and yet the event it hopes is approaching is actually receding.

Softly softly catchee monkey, tick tock etc etc.

It's funny, but it's sad as well.

Wizard said...

Zodiac I was just reading your comments on Joana Morais blog to the Mathew Lewis incident. Great stuff!

Di said...

Hi Viv

Precious-ramotswe

Makes my blood boil on 3A's.

Smiley blushes.. I don't know who you are referring to on here.

If you don't want to say no problem.

Di said...

Hi Zodiac

Wow your response on JM

Well said and Claps.

Oh how I wish we had all those smilies :o))

Di said...

Have to go now

Enjoy your evening

bath theory said...

The news about the MCanns being anoid at this conservative party activist dressing up on the BBC internet site includes these words...

"His actions are not only disgraceful in themselves, they will also cause great hurt to Kate and Gerry," he said.

THE REAL QUESTION IS - HOW MUCH DID KATE AND GERRY'S ACTIONS CAUSE GREAT HURT TO MADELEINE !!!!!!!!!

bath theory said...

This is the link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7820727.stm

nancy said...

Hi Viv

Just managed to get some time to read back and thanks for your answer to mine. I'm glad you've had reasonable weather - here in Suffolk it's been like the end of the world with freezing fog,icy conditions, and no sun at all!

What I mean't by TB instigating my e-mail to the Attorney General's Office was because he suggested on an earlier thread of his on the 3A's that people who believed strongly Madeleine wasn't getting the justice she deserved to send an e-mail to that office, which I did (in my own words).

I can't remember exactly what I said but it was something about the McCanns getting all the sympathy while Madeleine seemed to be ignored. What annoys me and what I find utterly contemptible is that the e-mail was deleted unread. The subject matter was Madeleine McCann and that must be why they deleted it. And it took about seven weeks to even acknowledge it was deleted and unread!

I will go on and look at the latest TB thread and see what has been going on. But as long as he continues to try and get the McCann's and CM rattled he can't do a lot wrong for most antis I guess! Just why have they not started proceedings against him yet I wonder - or Goncalo Amaral for that matter.

You and he are obviously on opposite sides of the fence Viv. Many people in the legal profession disagree strongly with each other if the truth is known!

I don't know about TB and the Lubbock case, but I think that was an appalling case and I admire the lad's father at least for his persistence in trying to get to the truth of the matter. I think Michael Barrymore was more involved than he cared to let on personally.

Anyway, I digress. I think, like you, that the business of washing cuddlecat was one of the facts that made most people do a double take over Kate's innocence or guilt, because as we've all said before, no grieving Mum would ever want to wash their child's much loved toy again.

As for Gerry, I just want something soon to wipe that pompous smirk off his face once and for all! I believe it will happen eventually!

Nx

nancy said...

Zodiac -

I was so sorry to hear you lost a loved one six years ago and of course you are still hurting as any loving relative would be. My sincere condolences on your loss Zodiac.

Nx

viv said...

I am sorry I know I probably should not have done but I really laughed at what the young activist did. It is a very strong piece of satire but certainly makes his point. Young people, student days, this is typical behaviour when they really want to shock to hit home! It is also very interesting to know exactly what young people thing and he leaves us in no doubt! The McCanns put on a barmy circus and so he does the same!

If it caused Mr Cameron great embarrassment I certainly would not have a problem with that!

viv said...

Hiya Nancy, I live in Warwickshire and it is nice to hear we occasionally get better weather than you Southerners!

In a way I feel a little sorry for beleaguered staff on the end of all those emails. The reaction to the McCann case, caused in no small part by the antics of Gerry McCann is absolutely unprecented, they must get countless thousands. I really did feel concern for the PJ, routed in a massive investigation and no doubt countless thousands of emails pouring in, in English! Many of them from Rosiepops:-))) Maybe it was a little thoughtless of TB to suggest this? He is not a lawyer ! The AG's office are simply not allowed to comment on any individual criminal case. They have to act fairly and impartially. We would not want Kate and Gerry to be able to say that even government departments prejudiced the public against them and prevented them getting a fair trial. This particularly had to do with the jury system. The idea is that you are judged by your peers and those peers must not come to a trial with pre-ordained views that you are in fact guilty because everyone already said so. I suppose it is having a life time working in criminal law etc legal training that makes me particularly think of this. But supposing your child got accused of a criminal offence that they actually did not commit, you would want the system to be fair and unbiased to give a proper opportunity to defend the case? Kate and Gerry are entitled to the same rights as every other person accused of a crime. I want them to be brought to trial and very fairly convicted on the evidence so that they have no opportunity for people to say that was not fair or worse still they take their conviction to the European Court to try and get it overturned because they just couldnot get a fair hearing. It is only if true justice is done and seen to be done that their guilt beyond reasonable doubt could be established. The public interest and discussion already has caused problems I think. We need to take care that we do not go so far that they can just walk away from this. The actions of Mr Bennett is going way too far. I also believe he is playing straight into the hands of Clarence Mitchell. I could be wrong but I feel he is being baited and set up for a big fall. The McCanns will not give him the satisfaction of suing him, how could they do that. They will just completely rubbish him and seek to rubbish everyone else in the process that claims they are in fact guilty. I have had my severe doubts about this man for a long time as you know, even wondering whether he is actually on their side. I do not think he is, but they will use him to suit their ends. But what could he and Clarence find to talk about on the phone??

viv said...

Nancy darling

If you must see Gezza with the pompous smirk wiped off his face, just look top right Hun:-)) and we are not allowed to see him anymore. I honestly do not think things are going quite as well for the McCanns as people seem to think, those rog statements are absolutely dreadful and we do not know very much. We do not have LP's file at all and only one third of the PJ's why do you think all that got held back, I know why!

I am going to do some research to see if I can get smilies on here because I love using them on 3 As!

xxx

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

Ask Jan to ask Sina on her site how to get smilies she is hooked on them and has some fab ones over there :o) is the best I can offer LOL...

It is freezing here and have bought a spare quilt down to the sofa and the puppy is asleep on my feet which is nice and warm...

Hope you are well xxx

viv said...

Hiya Hope, well I know you will read it in the morning!

It would seem crap blogger does not do smilies, now how sad is that!

We moved Nanday a few weeks ago, right by a radiator so he can sit and warm his bum. Parrots thrive in about 80 degs! He also gets to check out the garden birdies through the back window, eating his left over food! He said, that is so nice for them, I try to save them a bit!

Old Tony eh, I think he is in big trouble, oh and Tony if you are reading, it is a criminal offence to impersonate a solicitor!


xxxxxx

viv said...

Di, this is for you, you may remember me and Doc got a bit tetchy with Leigh when she/he kept almost threatening us with libel proceedings, that kind of let the cat out the bag, as it were!

Post subject: Re: 24 HORAS - Amaral & Anthony Bennett
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:51 am
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User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:37 am
Posts: 1207
precious_ramotswe wrote:
That ticking clock cracks me up :))

It's been ticking for so long, and yet the event it hopes is approaching is actually receding.

Softly softly catchee monkey, tick tock etc etc.

It's funny, but it's sad as well.

You know what really IS funny? Your familiarity with this forum

precious_ramotswe Post subject: Re: 24 HORAS - Amaral & Anthony BennettPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:24 pm

Been Cautioned

Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:02 pm
Posts: 322 :)) :)) :))

That 'softly softly catchee monkey' is a real favourite of Sans_Souci's too, funnily enough.


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viv
Post subject: Re: 24 HORAS - Amaral & Anthony Bennett
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:05 am
You're Nicked

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:58 pm
Posts: 210
Nice bit of detective work

One Leigh3 on my own blog also used to love that rather distinctively old fashioned remark too, funny that..She does have a sense of humour though, once she got rumbled she changed her name to ta ra! Or is it a he!


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hope4truth said...

Viv

Is Tony "Racist" Bennett not a Solicitor then???

It is good when people raise the profile for Madeleine but if they are then proved to be a liar and a clown the public will only come away remebereing the nutter who was against her parents and put us all in the same boat....

Lets face it if Nick Griffin decided to speak out for Madeleine all people would see is a scum bag BNP leader and his message about Madeleine would be lost...

hope4truth said...

Viv

Oh never mind we will have to stick to our own :o( xxx

viv said...

Hiya Hope, no, he is not a solicitor, he is an unqualified "rights advisor", typical of the unqualified type of person who likes to intermeddle in the law to boost themselves.

Anyone who actually believes he could get "justice for maddie?" is sadly deluded. That is a job for the police and for a starting point, telling the truth would help!

But I do believe many people who are actually suggesting that he is right are Pros! Why would they do that? Because they know the man is an idiot and can only convince the public the McCanns are innocent and there is no hope of any action against them.

xx

viv said...

Preshy overplayed the hand, insulted, goaded calling people mad et al, nasty little colloquial phrases, hello PSYCHOPOPS!


precious_ramotswe
Post subject: Re: 24 HORAS - Amaral & Anthony Bennett
New postPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:40 pm
Been Cautioned

Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:02 pm
Posts: 340
Stupidity is exemplified by those who insist they believe something that they don't really, just for effect - even when it makes them look madder than a box of frogs :D

I have seen so many people here goaded, bullied, prodded, lied about and insulted - then they either leave voluntarily or bite back and get banned.

Oldest trick in the book. I could give you a list of the victims names, some of them firm anti-Mccanns, but none of you need me to. You all know who they are - conspicuous by their absence.

Di said...

Hi Viv & all

Thanks for the info on Leigh3 & p-r I had missed that. Precious certainly has plenty to say.

I have just been reading on Sky News about a 3 hour old baby abandoned under a bush just wrapped in a blanket. Thanks to the quick thinking of 3 boys who found her, she is now safe and well in hospital. How she survived in this weather is a miricle.

Well done boys.

nancy said...

Hello Di

Thanks for that heartwarming news. That certainly is a miracle. Let's hope the baby girl finds love and compassion wherever she goes. How anyone could be so heartless as to abandon a new born baby in this freezing weather is beyond me. They could at least have made sure she was left somewhere warm and safe. If she had died, the mother or whoever dumped her, could have been facing a manslaughter charge at the very least.

viv said...

Di hello, unfortunately they just do not give up with their goading and PR do they!

What an absolute miracle about the baby, but what state of mind to place a baby in such a position, how absolutely dreadful!

I am sure there will be a loving person(s) who really wants to be a proper parent to this little.
miracle baby.

Nancy, the mother is indeed lucky this baby's life was saved but still in really big trouble! It does seem to display an intention to put the baby's life at serious risk or perhaps just self protection came to the fore in not wanting to be on a CCTV camera! Parents who put their own needs first in such extreme circumstances clearly do not deserve to be anywhere near lovely little children.

Someone started an interesting thread on 3 As, why did Gerry say I am not hear to enjoy myself. He really does give himself away..

viv said...

oh just meant to add, it is not clear I don't think who put that video into the public domain, but it clearly must have been David Payne who was filming it...

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

Yes, a very strange remark to make when you are off on a holiday with your wife, children and your mates.

Maybe he'd had a few words with Kate and she told him he had to take his turn in looking after the children while they were in Portugal and he wasn't going to be able to play tennis all day!

Or maybe he was thinking of the book he had in that blue bag which needed a lot of attention before the end of the week!

----------------------------------

I've been reading the Amaral/TB forum and I must say you are holding your own exceedingly well with quite a lot of opposition, but certainly some who agree with you.

From what I read on there, and let me know if I am wrong about this, if the McCanns were brought into a Magistrates Court under a charge of neglect for instance, they could, if foul play was suspected, have the case transferred to a Crown Court. If that is right, then maybe it would be a good idea to at least try to get them in a Magistrate's Court for (maybe) onward transmission!

After all that reading, I'm ready to slunk in the armchair, so I'll be back in the morning to see your reply if you manage to get back this evening!

Nx






xx

Has anyone else got any suggestions as to what he meant?

viv said...

Hiya Nancy,

No, that is not right, if they were to be charged with neglect that is all the Magistrates could deal with. The Police MUST make the charges against them that they have to face before they go to court. It is an abuse of the process of the court to charge someone with a minor offence and deal with them for that, then come back at a later date with further more serious charges. The prosecution must bring their whole case arising from those facts all at the same time. This is why I have repeatedly said that if the McCanns were charged with negligence that is the only charge they would face and they most certainly would not go to prison for what they did. In fact it is quite likely they would not be charged. Plus they cannot be charged in UK for negligence committed abroad anyway! They can be dealt with for the fraud because that arose in the UK *the Portuguese could never have dealt with this and I always felt it was a complicating factor and they can most certainly be dealt with for homicide because it is a more serious offence which we can still prosecute someone for, even if they did commit it abroad.

Taking someone to court is not a fishing exercise by the police, it can only be done when they have investigated the case, are satisfied they have the evidence and charged them with appropriate charges based on the evidence they have.

xx

viv said...

Oh and of course the TAPAS have now perverted the course of justice in the UK as well, very helpful of them:-)))

viv said...

In Russell's case I noticed they were not content with just videoing him, they were also requiring him to sign witness statements, that have a caption on them about how you realise you may be prosecuted if you lie. Very grim for him, I think!

Sorry Bum, I just had a read of your quite frankly crazy little blog and I know you do not like my poetry. I think the three or four of you ought to book in for a full psychiatric assessment (paranoid psychosis perhaps) if you seriously believe I could waste anytime posting on any of your blogs writing emails whatever. I am pleased you like my posts on 3 As so much, I knew you would. Oh and PS if this site bores you tears, why read it!!!

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

Thanks for the explanation and I understand now why perhaps things are much more quiet than they should be, so as to get them for the ultimate crime against Madeleine rather than just for neglect, which is bad enough in itself but something from which they would probably walk away with a pat on the head!

The fraud element is something I think one day we should have a thread about and really bring up everything they have all tried to cover up, including what has really happened with the Madeleine Fund.

JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE!

PS. Talking of the paranoid psychosis blog, just what is their www.address. Did they change it from Justiceforthemccannfamily? I'd be interested to see what they are banging on about lately!


Nx

nancy said...

Barbara Ellen of the bleeding heart Guardian has an article in McCann Files today. Notice the use of Madeleine 'is' a vulnerable child. She has obviously been advised to say that! After going on for a couple of paragraphs about the cad, Matthew Lewis, the young Tory who dressed up as Madeleine, she goes on:

"Madeleine is a vulnerable child whose parents have been devastated by her disappearance ('devastated' when? my words) yet the fact remains that the Madeleine concept, the brand, has been fully absorbed into British culture for some time.

While this must be hard on Kate and Gerry McCann it is also a sign that their campaign was extraordinarily successful, so successful that the culture of oversensitivity has long swirled in the slipstream. Indeed, thinking about it,how was it ever possible to turn this tragic little girl into a media celebrity with her image being up for grabs for every merchant of bad taste.

-----------------------------------

I think the media itself had something to do with it Barbara, helped along by the power of the McCanns of course!!

bath theory said...

In terms of the fraud element I teach a child whose dad is a policeman in that area. If you would like some questions asked I am more than happy to pass them through. I have been meaning to ask him some myself. please send them to me via Viv's e-mail. On that point did you get my last one Viv?

bath theory said...

Nancy
In terms of being on holiday with your mates. Do you feel the McCann's were the friends of this group ? They may have been the sort of couple you roll your eyes to when hearing they are coming to. I am still intrigued as to the relationships between them and the role of Murat with them too. Seeing as I believe this will come to court one day I shall have to wait to find out I suppose.

viv said...

Nancy - here are the latest posts on the Paranoid Pyschosis Blog, I really do fear for their mental health. They seem to have an obsession with me and are even defending Mr Bennett now after all the foul things they have called him. Apparently because he tells newspapers he is a solicitor that means for a fact that he is:-))))


Rosiepops said...

Hi Anon 17.39,

We know it was made up, invented by a very frustrated bitter person.
The more this person keeps going the more stupid she is making herself look and the deeper the hole she is digging for herself.
09 January 2009 18:04
christabel said...

Well if it ain't Mrs Opal Telecom.

Silly woman is all over the place. Where are you going next??????????
09 January 2009 18:06
Anonymous said...

That email is a fake, but in the small chance that it isn't...

Lets hope the person who deals with litigations on forumotion never gets to see what is written on Viv's blog, as he/she would probably have a heart attack.
09 January 2009 18:10
Rosiepops said...

The hosts have Viv's website address and I think they are stunned!
09 January 2009 18:32
Anonymous said...

Poor hosts.
Even the most hardened person is in danger of PTSD after visiting that sick place.
09 January 2009 18:36
Rosiepops said...

Now who are the liars, fantasists, impostors and wannabes? That blog has wall to wall libel and evil. Nothing like seeing it for oneself!
It would actually be impossible to separate the libellous comments on there, if the High Priestess Psycho of slime and evil were to do that, she would be left with no comments at all.
Doesn't really matter that much anyway, that blog is now all but defunct, the rats have deserted!
09 January 2009 18:38
Mum21 said...

The truth of the matter is Viv's is a blog...not a forum. There is no abuse button...no litigation button...in fact no button at all. Add to that the fact the hosts of that blog do not give a damn what appears on them = Viv's blog still remains. Now had she opened up on a forum like ours...then BOOM, she would have gone long ago. There is no way forumotion would have allowed the content of Viv's to remain.
But why worry...she is almost defunct. 85% of the comments on that blog are written by Viv.....and my God they are so boringly longgggggggggggg. She repeats the same old thing over and over and over again.
09 January 2009 20:26
Tinkerbell43 said...

Anon 07:36 and 17:34

I'm still waiting for your reply!
09 January 2009 22:23
Anonymous said...

Well anon, I'm sure you will find a way. It cant be too hard for you surely, after all as you said the email evidence is plastered everywhere.

So I ask you again, care to provide the email evidence ?

09 January 2009 17:43
...
No look for it yourself
10 January 2009 07:26
ModNrodder said...

Anon, Rosie and J4 site admin have posted the reasons for the threads moving into a members area.

I am not admin or a moderator and I have seen this fabricated email. It is clear that a site with a report button which has opinions posted that many don't like and would like to 'shut up' will have that report facility, itself, abused. Complaints would no doubt have to follow a procedure which would include every complaint being dealt with between the host and the site admin.

Dealing with unfounded or legitimate complaints takes up a lot of precious time. J4 has not been censored by the hosts. It has been self censored by the membership. Yes, the membership also democratically asked for this knowing it would relieve time pressures from the admin.

I can see that that fabricated mail shows frustration at not having any reason to press the complaint button and the potential to cause annoyance to J4 has been removed. Tuff!!
10 January 2009 08:27
ModNrodder said...

This fabricated email being put about gets very few comments anyway and then only from the usual suspects. Anyone with any sense can see it is posted here then and everywhere by someone who has a chip on their shoulder and there is nothing to prove it's authenticity so is mainly ignored.

If I remember correctly the fabricated email said that J4 was to be shut down by the 8th December? So if people are going to take your word against ours then you have already been proved wrong.
10 January 2009 08:37
Mum21 said...

Anon 7.26 AKA Viv

People who cannot back up accusations should not accuse.
Unless of course they just enjoy shit stirring.
I would undoubtedly put you in that category!
10 January 2009 08:46
Rosiepops said...

Anon 7.26.

You do not get it do you? Now read carefully, it was you that came on this blog spoiling for an argument. It was you that came on here and accused me of lying because I said we publish most comments, even though we may not agree with some of them.
Bizarrely, you were having your ill thought out comments published on here, yet you were still accusing us of lying and not publishing dissenting comments! (Strange but true!)
Now you are going on about this email our hosts have supposed to have written, when you have politely been asked to back up your accusation with facts, you have rudely told us to go and look for it ourselves! Why should we? It was 'you' that broached the subject, it is you that keeps accusing us and it is you that is apparently putting words into our host's email.
Now if you are going to accuse people, you have to be able to back up those accusations with facts and as it was 'you' (again) that claimed this email is plastered everywhere, then it should not be too hard for you to go and get a copy of it, so we can actually compare it to the real thing!

The fact that you are obviously reluctant to produce this email, does not come as a surprise, people who tell lies and falsify documents are hardly in a strong position, because obviously they are unable to back up anything they say because they have been lying!

Very much the same thing that has been happening to the McCanns ever since the PJ felt the heat and were amazingly incompetent and bungling. The PJ found themselves being heavily condemned by the rest if the world and as the vernacular goes "they don't like it up 'em!
Instead of doing the decent thing and holding their hands up and admitting they got it wrong, the PJ under the auspices of the ego of Goncalo Amaral, was unable to do this and for reasons better known to himself, he set about a bizarre course of attempting to make the crime fit the parents.

This in a more civilised democracy can be known as several things, eg perverting the course of justice' or 'concealing evidence of a crime'. Amaral should be well versed in these laws, after all he is in court now answering just these charges in connection with another missing child, who has never been found.

So Anon, if you want to argue a point here, be prepared to back up your accusations and do not get offended when you are asked to back up what you say.
We are interested in this email and what was 'actually' written in it, but we are not the only ones interested in the content of it.
10 January 2009 09:01
Mum21 said...

viv Post subject: Re: An Inquest for Madeleine - Letter to the Attorney-GeneralPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:17 am

You're Nicked

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:58 pm
Posts: 212

Gairy Fairy, gets quite lary, but he really love them hairy, scary, scary Mairey


Last edited by viv on Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

-----------------------------------

Oh dear, Viv...and you have the nerve to ridicule my poetry.

Not the most popular person on the 3A's at the moment are you Viv?....SHAME!!!!
10 January 2009 09:14
Anonymous said...

Skeptical asked you a question twice, he thinks you overlooked it.

viv :

What, in your opinion, would be the best approach(s) to embark upon in order to gain Justice for Maddie ?

(PS : I asked the same query yesterday morning, but you seem to have overlooked it).

Another one hit the nail on the head, why does money keep cropping up with everything where you are concerned? You didn'r answer that one either.
We all know the answer though don't we?
Is this what you are looking to do again Madam?
10 January 2009 12:24
Anonymous said...

She gets a new best friend, then the others can go whistle.
The 3A's have her well and truly sussed don't they?
10 January 2009 13:07
Tinkerbell43 said...

Anon 07:26

That was exactly what I expected you to say, lol.

Glad to see you are as predictable as ever. YOU'VE never ever been able to back anything up when challenged.
10 January 2009 14:37
Rosiepops said...

She has no friends and she is no one's friend.
She is a sociopath, mentally unstable and a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.
Why do you think that notdoc and Clottier were able to stay with her all this time?
Because as detestable as he is Notdoc is no idiot and like us, he has had her number right from the start.
He has been playing Viv and Clottier all this time and they did not even see it it coming.

One other thing, why is it do you think that Vile will not get into a deep and meaningful with Bennett?

After all they have something in common, we 'know' that Bennett really was a solicitor and we know that Viv 'said' she was a solicitor, you would think they would be able to talk a little shop etc, yet no, Viv outright refuses to communicate with Bennett. Despite having the solicitor thing in common and they both hate the McCanns, you would think they would have a little to talk about, but now Viv runs a mile. Why?

Could it be because Viv is scared to get into a legal conversation with Bennett, because her complete lack of matters legal would soon become apparent?
10 January 2009 14:48
Mum21 said...

Message for Viv.

Viv, may I suggest you read the article below before making anymore comments regarding Tony Bennett's qualifications (or in your case lack of qualifications).

The man may be full of sh-t...and he is full of his own misguided importance. I do not agree with what he is doing...in fact the man is a menace to society....but he is a retired lawyer
Below is one of many articles about Tony Bennett, lawyer.

Revealed: Far right links of Barrymore's bête noire

By Guy Adams
Wednesday, 18 January 2006

If you thought the plot surrounding the return to public life of Michael Barrymore couldn't possibly get any thicker, think again.


On Monday, Tony Bennett, a lawyer representing the parents of Stuart Lubbock, who died at Barrymore's Essex home in 2001, turned up at the Celebrity Big Brother studios, and attempted to serve legal papers on the troubled entertainer.

Now it emerges that Bennett, who has quickly become Barrymore's bête noire, is himself in possession of a - shall we say? - "colourful" past, on the fringes of right-wing politics.

A few years back, when he was known as plain Anthony Bennett, the retired solicitor made unflattering headlines when was sacked by the UK Independence Party after publishing a pamphlet that described the prophet Mohamed as a paedophile.

He swiftly decamped to Robert Kilroy-Silk's Veritas party, where he briefly became leader. However that also ended in tears, after The Guardian published a front-page exclusive detailing his close links with Ian Anderson, a former chairman of the National Front.

How such a chap ended up taking on Barrymore is anyone's guess. But yesterday, the man himself insisted that politics were irrelevant to the legal proceedings.

"It would be amazing if anyone brought that up," he said. "The Guardian piece was very unfair. The so-called link was tentative. My career shows that I am in no way a racist."
10 January 2009 21:19
vee8 said...

And lets not forget this, most critical, piece of information.

An application was heard at the Court Room 3rd Floor, Gate House, 1 Farringdon Street, London EC4M 7NS on the 9th September 2003.Quote from the Court papers: “(iv) by virtue of the aforementioned the Respondent had brought the profession into disrepute and is guilty of conduct unbefitting a solicitor.”

I would go further, and say he is guilty of conduct unbefitting a human being.
11 January 2009 09:25
Mum21 said...

Viv said...

Sorry Bum, I just had a read of your quite frankly crazy little blog and I know you do not like my poetry. I think the three or four of you ought to book in for a full psychiatric assessment (paranoid psychosis perhaps) if you seriously believe I could waste anytime posting on any of your blogs writing emails whatever. I am pleased you like my posts on 3 As so much, I knew you would. Oh and PS if this site bores you tears, why read it!!!

Sunday, 11 January 2009 05:39:00 o'clock GMT

For the same reason you constantly keep reading this blog.
I certainly don't like your posts on the 3A's....but I do find them mildly amusing. Mainly because they are crap! I also find it amusing to see how the members of the 3A's have you sussed out. None to populare over there...are you?

Have a nice day.
11 January 2009 09:50
Rosiepops said...

Although it has to be said that Viv is not the only one that is constantly hovering here and the forum, there is someone else too!

Two Words:

"Wide Tracking!"
11 January 2009 11:13

If you want to read any more of this stuff, they are at:

http://justice4mccannfam.blogspot.com/2008/12/so-goncalo-amaral-hass-supposed-to-have.html

nancy said...

Hello BT -

I've never thought that the McCanns were all that close to the others. Remember Kate wasn't too keen on going to PdeL in the first place, and also the coldhearted remark she made to poor Maddie, asking her if she was very upset that the others had all gone to the beach without her.

However, they must have some hold over them because none of them have made a squeak against the McCann clan have they? But then they wouldn't because in my opinion they were all involved in the cover up too.

I think they were involved with Murat in some way, and definitely knew him before the went to Portugal, because why would GM make that 'no comment' gaffe when asked if he knew him, but I don't think Murat had anything to do with Maddie's disappearance. I think they just used him as a scapegoat to cover up their own part in the so called abduction. If you remember, Payne, and also another chap in the area, whose name I can't remember, both resembled Murat and it could have been either of them who was seen hanging around the apartments, if in fact, someone was seen!

I wish I had Viv's patience! It seems nothing is ever going to happen to get these people in the dock, but we must live in hope I suppose.

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

Well, words fail me - they always were a dung headed bunch but now they really have flown the cuckoo's nest!

If you had been in complete agreement with TB you can imagine the hysterical rhetoric they would have been coming out with - probably accusing you both of having an affair or something!

These anons annoy me - they are a cowardly bunch - their opinions are strong but idiotic mostly, but they are too chicken to give their names.

I wonder why Rosiepops has it in for you - could it be because you had the pros sussed out a long time ago and you happen to know what you are talking about when it comes to the law, whereas they come out with the same old tired responses every time. They all need to get a life.

Thanks for their blogspot details. I'll go there when I feel the need for a heart lifting experience!

Nx

viv said...

Nancy darling you just put me right off lunch:

"probably accusing you both of having an affair or something!"

Perish the thought!!!

I think in a way he has a similar affliction to them!


xxx