6 Apr 2010

BRITISH PRESS DO REPORT SHOCK ING MADDIE TYPE CASES

#mccann �We have a pact.This is our matter only.It is nobod... on Twitpichttp://twitpic.com/1dsgbv

Kate lovingly speaks about her daughter being abducted....very sad.

August 26, 2008

The sad life and death of Rose, Israel's Madeleine McCann


Rose Ron, aged 4, a French national
(Israel Police/HO/AP)
Rose, the missing French girl whose fate has kept Israel on tenterhooks


The story of a missing four-year-old French girl took a grisly turn today when Israeli police revealed their suspicions that the child had been murdered by her mother and grandfather, who were in a romantic relationship.
Rose, the little girl with haunted blue eyes and ashy blonde hair has been called the Israeli Madeleine McCann. Her photographs have filled local newspapers while the details of her family's past have scandalised the Israeli public.
Police said that the girl's grandfather, Ronnie Ron, 45, admitted to delivering a blow to the girl that killed her before stuffing her body in a suitcase and throwing it into a river near his home in the coastal town of Natanya.
Ronnie Ron was living with the girl's mother, 23-year-old Marie Pisam. The two began their relationship while Pisam was still married to Ron's son, Benjamin.

Police called the case one of the most shocking in recent history.
"I have handled many investigations, but I can't recall a single other investigation that turned all of our stomachs, in which investigators came out of briefings with tears in their eyes said," Ilan Ben Shalom, the central district police commander.
The police investigation and local media reports have revealed a complicated family history.
Rose was born in France to French-born Pisam and an Israeli man identified by his first name, Benjamin. Shortly after Rose's birth, her parents decided to travel to Israel to fulfill Benjamin's wish to meet, for the first time, his biological father Ronnie Ron. Ron, however, appeared more interested in Pisam. The two reportedly fell in love, and Pisam remained in Israel with Ron, while her husband returned to France with Rose.
Over the next two years Benjamin had difficulty raising his daughter and transferred her to a string of institutions in France.
Meanwhile, Pisam and Ron decided to wed and had two sons together. In 2007 they discovered that Rose, then three years old, had been hospitalised after allegedly suffering abuse at the hands of her father.
The two fought for custody of the girl, and later that year brought her to live with them in Israel.
A friend of the family said that Ron and Pisam felt they were headed towards "reunification" and that they hoped their family would soon have a happy ending. Rose, however, displayed severe behavioral problems from her reported history of abuse. She could not communicate in French or Hebrew, and had difficulty with basic motor skills.
Confronted with the difficulties of the girl, the couple decided to give her to Ron’s mother, Vivian, who cared for her for several months before insisting that another arrangement be made.
In May of 2008, Ron and Vivian had a bitter fight, after which Ron packed Rose's belongings in a bag and took the child home with him. It was the last time that Vivian saw the little girl.
Three months later, after repeated calls to Ron and Pisam, Vivian decided to approach authorities and report the girl as missing. Earlier this month, police began a widespread investigation into the case.
Police said that they are positive that Ron and Pisam are involved in the disappearance of Rose, but are still questioning the couple. During his interrogation, Ron recanted his initial testimony several times, telling police various versions of the story in which he sold the girl to Arabs in the Palestinian Authority or to a family abroad.

85 comments:

viv said...

Below is an interesting post. Something wrong with the little Mexican girl, something wrong with this little French girl, something wrong with little Maddie. The very sad common denominator seems to be they are abused, unwanted and disposed of and they were all aged 4, statistically the most dangerous age for little children to be around abusive and murderous parents.

S.B. said... 145

As someone here has raised the subject of IVF I should like to mention something that has perplexed me for some time.

So what do we know about the life of the Mccanns prior to May 2007 - very little! I have attained this information from quotes made by the Mccanns and Geralds blogs. Unable to conceive naturally Kate Mccann opted for IVF and eventually gave birth to Madeleine after a reportedly difficult pregnancy. According to G. Mccann on a 'friends re-united' website, in August 2005 he was working in Amsterdam and the following year in April after having returned to the U.K. Kate gave birth to the twins, also conceived by IVF. As it would appear that Kate was living in Amsterdam during this period it follows that IVF treatment was undertaken in Amsterdam.

I am no expert but I think I am correct by saying that you do not take a magic pill to become pregnant, IVF is a serious choice that requires careful monitoring before and all during pregnancy. Having given birth to their first child in the U.K. successfully the logical progression would be to trust the expertise of the consultant previously known to you rather than opt for the services of a foreign clinic. Unless of course something went radically wrong! I would certainly prefer to be under the guidance of a tried and trusted specialist. From Kate’s point of view would it not be preferable for her to be surrounded by close relatives and friends rather than be isolated in a foreign country? It is a known fact that the Netherlands adopt a somewhat unconventional approach to life which to the likes of the British is deemed unethical. Why did the Mccanns take this unusual route? Again, everything reverts back to Amsterdam as we have also seen with Gerald’s Irish roots and Scottish liaisons!

Something just doesn't add up. Perhaps poor little Madeleine was not the trophy child that they wished for! So many unexplained details that should be addressed but whatever the truth I remain convinced that the crime perpetrated in Portugal was premeditated and the object was the cruel disposal of their daughter. Everything we are presented with that is considered factual all points in this same direction. If the crime was a planned abduction by the parents, which appears to be a strong possibility considered by the investigators, I am sorry to say that I doubt if little Madeleine is alive now!

viv said...

Rosiepops is now calling itself Garthy and spouting the same old lies, lol!

http://www.debateforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=67

viv said...

This shows that the McCanns when the McCanns sold their former property and price

14,
The Mews, Queniborough Hall Drive,
Queniborough,
Leicester,
Leicestershire,
LE7 3DZ £300,000
Semi-Detached
Freehold
Not New Build 20-Jan-2006
Map (LE7 3DZ)

viv said...

This would tend to show that since the McCanns moved in, they have caused an exodus of their neighbours, the last one selling in Feb this year at what would seem to be a very substantial loss, given the McCanns paid £459,000. LP advised PJ their mortgage is for £323,000. If like their neighbour the value is now only £380,000 it can be seen this couple have virtually no equity!

I suppose the neighbours can be forgiven for wanting to get out, before the proverbial hits the fan..and the value of their property plunges even more.


4 The Crescent,
Rothley,
Leicester,
Leicestershire,
LE7 7RW £380,000
Detached
Freehold
Not New Build 19-Feb-2010
Map (LE7 7RW)
1 The Crescent,
Rothley,
Leicester,
Leicestershire,
LE7 7RW £482,000
Detached
Freehold
Not New Build 25-Jun-2008
Map (LE7 7RW)
3 The Crescent,
Rothley,
Leicester,
Leicestershire,
LE7 7RW £470,000
Detached
Freehold
Not New Build 18-Jan-2008
Map (LE7 7RW)
4 The Crescent,
Rothley,
Leicester,
Leicestershire,
LE7 7RW £410,000
Detached
Freehold
Not New Build 27-Oct-2006
Map (LE7 7RW)
1 The Crescent,
Rothley,
Leicester,
Leicestershire,
LE7 7RW £400,000
Detached
Freehold
Not New Build 28-Jul-2006
Map (LE7 7RW)
5 The Crescent,
Rothley,
Leicester,
Leicestershire,
LE7 7RW £459,950
Detached
Freehold
Not New Build 20-Jan-2006
Map

viv said...

This is the only other time that their former semi was sold in recent years and therefore must be when they purchased it. So when they went to live in Amsterdam for a year they owned this property. So, in the 6 years they owned it they made a £115,000 profit which is roughly the deposit on Rothley. Their net equity is now much lower and so the house clearly could not finance any massive defence costs for them. Doctors who are made of straw really.

14,
The Mews, Queniborough Hall Drive,
Queniborough,
Leicester,
Leicestershire,
LE7 3DZ £185,000
Semi-Detached
Freehold
New Build 25-Aug-2000
Map (LE7 3DZ)

viv said...

Speaking of speculating, it made me think of that old but very true saying, you have to speculate to accumulate. I bet Gerry heard of that one.

This is a man who has no money to pay his mortgage for a few months and virtually no equity in his property. His wife had kids turned two and she is still on maternity leave.

The holiday itself costs about £1500, there is clearly a suggestion from David Payne that Gerry footed the bill for the extra costs of chartering flights from East Midlands rather than using those in the packaged deal from London and also the taxi fares etc as they lost their included "transfers" too on arrival at resort. One can understand the interest in his Mastercard spending.

But wow when he gets on holiday the spending does not stop there does it. Only morning creche is "all inclusive", afternoon creche for three children, cost, another £450.

16 Private tennis lessons for each of them? 32 x £50 = £1600.

So it is probably no exaggeration to say that Gerry spent at least another £3000 on top of the basic cost of this holiday.

Dumping the kids in the creche all the time was important, they had to be considered a couple who were not interested in the kids for this faked abduction to work. So money well speculated thinks Gerry.

£1600 on private tennis lessons (agreed only my estimate), he had to give the impression they were always around the tennis area and simply mad on tennis for the "handover" to go ahead successfully with no one noticing, again money well spent.

Martin Smith featuring in the Daily Mail? What other serious police witnesses have done so? Is it the police who were doing the leaks or Gerry McCann? I know what I think!

If Maddie was removed early evening in the tennis bag then Martin Smith just has to be a Gerry fake.

Martin Brunt of Sky News has quite categorically stated that missing bag belongs to Gerry McCann, Goncalo says he is not revealing all.

Gerry wants to shut Goncalo up and has failed to issue any threat to Sky or Martin Brunt. That is because it is the truth. He has failed to offer any comment on the GASPAR statement, that is because it is the truth. He certainly did not want that one leaking to the press and was very miffed so much got put into the public domain, so foolish to want the file released, it serves them right. It is not difficult to work out the real thorns in his side, the ones he is too afraid to mention, he is not afraid to mention the Smith sighting, he is using it as "evidence" of abduction, later that night, a total myth

viv said...

I think it is terrible that the McCanns were allowed to enter the apartment and remove all their stuff. This most certainly should have been a sealed crime scene.

I have always found Murat rather unnerving, there are some odd things about his behaviour. Generally I am willing to say he is completely innocent, the Perfect Patsy, but I do have niggling doubts and concerns. The most obvious being follow the police and what they think. They kept this man an arguido alongside Kate and Gerry for a very long time and it was his odd behaviour that got his collar felt.

If Madeleine was removed from the apartment in the early evening, perhaps at about 7 when Gerry finished his tennis themed evening, in the missing tennis bag, then logic would dictate that he needed someone with a vehicle to drop that bag into. A re-read of what Dianne Webster says and DC Marshall and Ricardo Paiva has really sharpened my views. Gerry was missing when Dianne arrived at the TAPAS at about 8.55, she says. So where was he and what was he doing?

Why did Gerry refuse to comment and look so angry when asked and do you know Robert Murat? He is not a man that is normally stuck for words. But there are occasions when he and Mitchell will use the then "judicial secrecy" or some other pretext to refuse to engage. "I am not prepared to comment". We may assume that is a particularly difficult issue for them. All the issues were difficult for Kate when she was being interviewed as an arguida. Did she "prepare" Madeleine for removal whilst Gerry was playing tennis? All this couple were interested in doing all week was playing tennis, that is a big clue I think.

viv said...

Why did Gerry delete and refuse to acknowledge 14 texts the day before and 4 on 4 May? The day before clearly demonstrates a premeditated crime, among other things. Why did Robert Murat return on 1 May?

They way you have set this post up causes me to wonder whether he is indeed an accomplice to the removal of Madeleine. It looks as though he is staying close to the McCann apartment so that he can report back to them on police activity. It also looks like his "services" as an interpreter would be terribly useful to Kate and Gerry who always seem to have known far more about this investigation than they should have done.

If Kate had actually drugged all three of the children whilst Gerry was playing tennis, then Maddie would be ready for removal, but maybe not dead. It seems clear to me the police were looking at this, kidnapping has always been so much a part of the investigation. People assumed that was looking at kidnapping by a stranger, quite plainly it was not! It was listed on the Appeal Court judgment of Evora as one of the possible crimes the McCanns had committed and for which they were being specifically investigated for.

If Gerry was to go and bundle Maddie into a car with his tennis bag, in his tennis gear, so as not to look suspicious, whose car was it? One of Murat's vehicles or the vehicle thought to have been used by Russell O'Brien? Maybe there was a process of deduction going on using the dogs, those that did not have cadaver odour may have been used to remove Madeleine alive? I believe Gerry planted that cadaver odour to throw the police off the scent, no pun intended. I think people continue to underestimate just how scheming and calculating this man is and I think I seriously underestimated just how evil Kate McCann also is.

Why have the Paynes kept telling lies about when they went to the apartment? When interviewed again we can see from the email exchange of Paiva and Marshall the latest is Fiona went back to the apartment with Kate at 7 pm and the husband arrived, not making clear which one. Payne now says he last saw Maddie at 5 pm. The fact that these two keep on changing those vital times says one thing loud and clear they are seriously involved in what happened to Madeleine. If Kate and Fiona did not get back until 7 and Gerry did not finish playing tennis until 7, who was looking after those angelic children, dressed in white?

At the end of the day, in spite of the trauma the McCanns friends have apparently subjected him to, he has become a millionaire in a very similar way to how they have. I try to keep an open mind with him, but!

viv said...

The other big clue is this couple behaved so oddly on that Thursday. The weather had improved and all the others went down to the beach. But not Kate and Gerry. They had a tennis lesson that finished about 3.45. Then it would seem they pick the children up and Kate decided they are not going out to play by the tennis area, that night, they are too tired. What at 6 in the evening!

By Kate not allowing the children to go out and play again during th early evening she was acting well out of the established routine, that is a big clue I think. A plan was being executed very sadly for poor little Madeleine. It was time for her to go.

viv said...

Not only are the trolls (including Rosie) saying the Smith sighting is true, they are also rather aggressively insisting Murat was "cleared". Not that he was any more "cleared" than Kate and Gerry were.

That tells me two things are very likely, Murat is involved and the Smith sighting is quite obviously a fake. A fake that Martin Smith's wife does not want to back him up with. Cannot say I blame her, prison for that!

viv said...

The story according to "Rosie" chief McCann troll, Ricardo Paiva has now been dramatically promoted, he is in charge, not the very senior Dr Rebelo, who is actually much higher even than Goncalo was, not only is Ricardo Paiva apparently in charge, he has to be sacked!!

and...wait for it, the investigation has to be re-opened in Portugal, now hang on a minute, is this not exactly what so many of these apparent erm er "anti" McCanns have been repeatedly insisting. As you once said to me "Rosie" (who is actually a very perverted man) I see right through you xx

viv said...

Garthy Post subject: TIME FOR RICARDO PAIVA TO RESIGN!Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:40 pm




Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 47

by Rosiepops Today at 12:58 am


In light of recent revelations that Ricardo Paiva, the police chief in charge of the Madeleine Investigation has been filing away what could turn out to be credible leads, without investigating them, I believe he has made his own position untenable, it is time for him to resign his position.

The first police coordinator Goncalo Amaral was sacked from the Madeleine investigation after five months for serious professional misconduct, he has since taken early retirement from his position in the Portuguese policia judiciaria (PJ). Ever since Amaral has had a king size chip on his shoulder the size of Gibraltar and he blames his own failings on the parents of the missing child and he bears a grudge against them and has been orchestrating a serious hate campaign against them. he has recently had his libellous book ban upheld for the 3rd time, in his book he accuses the parents of killing their own daughter and concealing her body.
Amaral stands accused of impeding, frustrating and hindering the search for missing Madeleine.

During his last appeal to have this ban lifted, Amaral called witnesses to speak for him, one of those was Ricardo Paiva, who took over the reins of the Madeleine McCann investigation from Paulo Rebelo. during cross examination Paiva admitted to the McCanns libel lawyer Dra Isabel Duarte, that he never looked at or investigated any new information or evidence or sightings of the girl when they came into the investigation. it is known that the McCanns investigators have themselves put forward what they believe to be credible leads to Ricardo Paiva. Paiva has done no more than take all this new information and file it away in a dossier marked "Not relevant To the Investigation", it was never acted upon or actioned.

This is a shocking admission. The investigation was shelved on the proviso that if any new information became available then it would be reopened.
During this time much new information has been submitted, but always the same answer, nothing credible, the investigation stays shelved!

On who's say so? Ricardo Paiva's?

It is absolutely shocking that he has been saying this while not even bothering to look at the new information, let alone action it for investigation, this is an admission of a lie, it is a shocking indictment of his duty as detective in charge of this investigation.

Ricardo Paiva has in effect kept this investigation shelved and could very well be responsible for that vital lead being missed that could have lead detectives to find Madeleine and her abductors. How can he judge what is a credible lead or not, if he is not even examining the information?

Some of us knew this was happening all along, when there were reports in the newspapers of people contacting the Portuguese police only to be sent away after being told their information was "not credible" and that they were wasting their time as the little girl was dead! Now we learn about Ricardo Paiva.

This in itself is an astonishing admission of gross dereliction of his duty, but place this together with the fact that Ricardo Paiva is a very close friend and Alli of Goncalo Amaral, the former police coordinator in charge of the Madeleine investigation before being sacked and it is shocking. But it doesn't end there, Ricardo Paiva has appeared as a witness to testify for his friend Amaral in court and claims himself that Madeleine is dead.
Paiva also testified under oath that while Goncalo Amaral was leading the investigation, they had to no time to investigate other theories as they were all fully occupied with only one theory of Amaral's and that was the parents killed Madeleine and concealed her body.
(Since leaving the police Amaral has been convicted of perverting the course of justice and perjury)

(this drivel is continued below, Rosie always goes on a bit)

viv said...

By testifying that he thinks Madeleine is dead and by appearing as a witness for Amaral and by ignoring all new reports coming into the investigation and by having such a close friendship with the disgraced former police coordinator Goncalo Amaral, Ricardo Paiva has demonstrated he has a serious conflict of interests while he is in this position and he should either resign or he should be removed from the case as soon as possible.

If Ricardo Paiva is allowed to stay in his position, then we are just seeing a repeat of what happened when Goncalo Amaral was allowed to stay in charge of the investigation, an investigation that because of his background he should not have been allowed within a mile of, let alone take charge.

Ricardo Paiva must go.

What is the new Portuguese political police police chief ... José Maria Almeida Rodrigues doing about this?

Rodrigues must act and he must act fast, a review MUST be ordered and the case re-opened there is not a moment to lose, a little girl's life is resting on this decision, a decision once again brought about by a conflict of interests, professional misconduct, incompetency and a gross dereliction of duty.

If nothing is done about this, then there is going to be a serious diplomatic incident, which we have been warning Portugal about for years.

This is NOT going to go away, the McCanns are not going to go away, we are not going to go away.

Full and far reaching review now, reopen the case, allow a cold case team from Scotland Yard using their HOLMES technology to com in and work alongside the PJ.

This is what Jose Almeida Rodrigues could order and he must do this NOW and Paiva must be removed from this investigation IMMEDIATELY.

I also hope that every newspaper picks this up and runs with this campaign, if Portugal refuses to act then pressure must be put on her until action is taken. Primacy and protocol and jurisdiction pales into insignificance against a child's life!
http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/pol ... -t2501.htm

viv said...

On the above debate forum "Garthy" AKA as "Rosiepops" posts a link to a further blog of his, here there is a picture of a burly man who says he is in Plymouth, Devon!

Whatever, we are treated to unmistable Rosie prose.

http://garth-truthoftheliars.blogspot.com/

You know Garthy I think you hate Goncalo and Ricardo so much because they know all about paedophiles. Now do you not get pushing your luck, there's a good chap!

viv said...

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 47

I'm interested as well Blueberry.......

http://garth-truthoftheliars.blogspot.com/

viv said...

and a little more familiar stuff from Psychopops, battered Leonor Cipriano next a picture of Goncalo Amaral. Only someone as sick and perverted as you would suggest this woman is innocent!

On this debate forum, Xaus thinks that gay marriage should be banned. Well we always knew you were ridden with racism and every other kind of prejudice that afflicts psychopathic people like you.

http://www.debateforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=45&view=next

viv said...

http://www.debateforum.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=9
Totally bizarre, it is a like a spoof 3 As or Missing Madeleine site and where Rosie seems to have written all of the posts and answers himself in a different username, lost the plot completely, I think so!

viv said...

On the subject of Pro McCann themes that are being seriously trolled, here is another one,

The McCanns get top level government protection. CEOP are bent and on their side etc.

What a load of eyewash! CEOP do not like perverts who exploit and abuse innocent little children. Neither do Leicester Police or Gordon Brown!!

viv said...

But I am sure they do get quite a lot of protection, due to how infamous they have successfully made themselves, having disposed of their daughter and then done their best to cash in on it and publicise it.

Paying Tony Bennett to hype up a baying mob was no doubt a great scheme too.

Well done McCanns!

viv said...

viv said...
Clarence Mitchell: WE are dismissing this primarily because the timing is all wrong, and how does he know that? Oh Kate and Gerry told him, of course!


Madeleine McCann was in my taxi, man claims


By Natalie Paris
Last Updated: 2:29AM GMT 29 Feb 2008
Madeleine McCann was in my taxi, driver claims
Claims Madeleine was quiet and dressed in her pyjamas

A taxi driver has reportedly claimed to have taken Madeleine McCann and Robert Murat for a ride in his cab on the night the toddler vanished.

* All the latest on the Madeleine McCann investigation

Antonio Cardoso, 67, alleges that Madeleine was with three men and a woman who were waiting at a taxi rank in Monte Gordo near the Spanish border.

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The Sun newspaper reports that he took them on a short journey to a hotel where the group transferred to a jeep with foreign number plates.

Mr Cardoso claimed the girl in the back of his taxi at 8.10pm on May 3 was wearing pink pyjamas and had a distinctive mark in her eye.

He said he later recognised one of the men as Robert Murat after watching a television programme.

The claims have shocked Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, who have rejected them for being incompatible with the known chain of events that night.

Murat was made an official suspect, or arguido, two weeks after the little girl disappeared but has always denied any involvement in the case.

Mr Cardoso said he drove the group in silence for about two miles from the Hotel Apolo in Vila Real de Santo Antonio near Faro, with the man who he believed to be Murat sat beside him in the front passenger seat.

He claimed the girl he thought was Madeleine was awake but said nothing during the trip and stared straight ahead.

He told the Sun: "I noticed her eye because my son was born with a defect much the same. I saw her kind of twist her chin a few times in my rear-view mirror.

"I remember she was in pink pyjamas and wondered why they hadn't dressed her."

He described the adults as casually dressed and the woman as a slim blonde.

Mr Cardoso said he had informed the police of the apparent encounter but as well as Metodo 3, the private detective agency hired by the McCanns.

But the McCanns spokesman Clarence Mitchell told the newspaper: "We are dismissing this primarily because the timings are entirely wrong."

Saturday, 11 April 2009 08:04:00 GMT+01:00

viv said...

viv said...
Notice how it was reported the main three PJ wanted to interview were Tanner, Payne and O'Brien.




Portuguese police will arrive in Britain within the next ten days to reinterview friends of Kate and Gerry McCann over the disappearance of their four-year-old daughter, Madeleine.

David Payne, Jane Tanner and her partner Russell O'Brien are set to be quizzed first in a last-ditch attempt by cops to crack the mystery. Police will then decide whether to requestion other members of the so-called Tapas Nine, it was claimed.

The news came as a Portuguese taxi driver told how he picked up Madeleine McCann with a blonde woman who looked like Kate McCann and three men including one who looked like suspect Robert Murat the night of her disappearance.

Antonio Castela, 67, said he dropped off the missing girl and her English-speaking mystery companions at an Algarve hotel and watched them drive off in a blue jeep.

Source: thisislondon.co.uk





Castela, a taxi driver for the past 17 years, said he picked the group up at at a taxi rank in Monte Gordo an hour's drive east of Praia da Luz where Kate and Gerry McCann were holidaying with their three children on the evening of May 3. He was certain about the timing, he said, as it was approaching the end of his shift.

He claimed Madeleine was wearing a pair of pink pyjamas and sat on the lap of one of the two men.

They asked him to drive them to the Apolo Hotel in the nearby town of Vila Real de Santo Antonio, a 15 minute drive from Portugal's southern border with Spain.

And the only one words one of the men uttered at the end of the two and a half mile journey was "How Much?" in English when it was time to pay, Mr Castela told Jornal do Algarve in an exclusive interview.

He told the paper the jeep the group got into in the hotel car park had a yellow UK-style number plate.

He is thought to have informed police after being told they were not staying at the hotel and seeing news of Madeleine's disappearance on TV.

Mr Castela is said to have picked up the group just after 8pm local time.

Madeleine's parents - official police suspects - first raised the alarm around 10pm although the last public sighting of Madeleine is believed to have been at least four hours earlier.

Source: thisislondon.co.uk

Saturday, 11 April 2009 08:13:00 GMT+01:00

viv said...

Whilst I agree with Gerry it could have happened anywhere (he chose) I do not think people do understand why "we are doing what we've done". On the contrary, I think that just like me, they are utterly horrified and we really want to know where were you and some of your friends between 7 and 9 on 3 May 2007? As for the comment about avoiding media exposure, staggering!


“I didn’t feel any evil around Praia da Luz. What happened here could have happened anywhere.

“I’m sorry for any harm caused and I want to thank the local population for their support and tolerance.

“Kate and I haven’t come back due to the media exposure and the controversy such a visit would pose.

“I hope people understand why we are doing what we’ve done.

viv said...

Above is the bottom of this report about HOW GERRY WANTS THE CASE RE-OPENING IN PORTUGAL (please, I don't like these Brit cops, I need the nicer Portuguese cops to look for Maddie's "abductor", I need to get Ricardo Paiva the sack first though, I need some fresh ones who will believe in me, get a grip, Gerry, you are in big trouble mate, face it)

viv said...

This was a year ago, and so why is it, to this day, people are still denying it is HIM that wants the case re-opening in Portugal? Because he paid a lot for his "poster campaign"?


Sunday April 12,2009
By James Murray

DEVASTATED Gerry McCann wants police to reopen their investigation into the disappearance of his kidnapped daughter Madeleine.

The heart specialist said: “At the minute there is no law enforcement agency actively looking for Madeleine – looking at the evidence, saying: ‘Where are the gaps and what more can we do?’ That’s what we need.”

Investigators working for Gerry and his wife Kate have spent months poring over the shelved Portuguese police files on the two-year-old case.

They are also working on a Channel 4 documentary about the kidnapping, which will include a reconstruction of the night Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007, with actors playing the McCanns and their seven friends.

Speaking in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz after working as a consultant for the programme, Gerry, 40, played down any criticism of the Portuguese police.

viv said...

13-Processos Volume XIII, Pages 3909-3915
13_VOLUME_XIIIa_Page_3909

13_VOLUME_XIIIa_Page_3910

To: Ricard Paiva
From: DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL
Ref: David Payne
Date: October 24, 2007

Leicester Police Constabulary

Ricardo,

As requested, appended are the statements of Arul and Katherina Gaspar.

I read with curiosity the written statements given by David Payne but was not able to extricate any other information besides what is already known. He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry. He did not indicate the motive for being there or what he was doing. He also cannot indicate how long he stayed.

When asked with whom he was on the afternoon of May 3rd, he declares that this information was already offered to the police and cannot remember if anyone else was there.

He does not remember what he was wearing that afternoon.

He took part in the searches, having carried out most of them alone. He was at times accompanied by Matthew Oldfield.

He did not partake in the searches realized on the 4th of May, because, on this day, he spent to majority of time in the police headquarters.

For many questions, he does not give a complete response, affirming simply that he has already given this information to the Portuguese police in his declarations.

I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her depositions, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to.

Her responses to the questions are vague. She continued to respond to questions with ?they conform with my earlier deposition? or some similar statement.

viv said...

So no doubt at all really, Fiona and David are in really big trouble too.

She probably babysat the twins, how nice of her...

Di said...

Hi Viv

Gosh you have been busy well done you.

Where do I start, the mortgage being paid by the fund. Quite honestly I don't believe Gerry had any problem paying the mortgage, I think he took advantage of the fact that the fund was set up to also help family and friends and thought he would get away with it.

I don't blame their neighbours moving I would also move. If and when the truth comes to light I cannot imagine anyone wanting to live there.

Di said...

Robert Murat

I have always wondered why Robert hired a rental car for himself saying he had lent his car to the McCanns. Have we any evidence that he did lend his car to Kate & Gerry, and if so, I would be more interested in the dogs giving the rental car the once over than Robert's car.

Something else that has puzzled me about Robert. Why did he drop Max Clifford who would have indeed given Clarence a run for his money. Max is no dummy.

Di said...

Diane Webster

What has bothered me about Diane is the fact that she did not leave the table as she thought it was another one of Gerry's jokes.

What sort of joke would this be when a mother supposedely comes running back to the tapas restaurant saying she's gone they've taken her. Not forgetting all the others quickly leave the table and Diane then says to a waiter a child is missing.

Something does not add up here. Are these the kind of jokes Gerry plays, pretending a child is missing!! If so I would question his mentality as it is sick beyond belief.

Viv that is as far as I have got tonight and have to go now as we have friends coming round for footy. Well as you know men watch footy girls gossip and why not.

See you tomorrow.

viv said...

Hiya Di!

The Fund and expenditure..

I have looked at Gerry's salary before and then looked at his expenditure, particularly on this holiday, paying extra for flights rather than using the ones in the package deal, paying extra for all day creche, £450, paying extra for private tennis lessons, so many lessons for both of them would have worked out to about £1500. For me, the figures just do not stack up, it would be impossible. I do think he was lashing out on his Mastercard, knowing he was going to set up a massive Fund and when he paid the mortgage from that Fund he was merely doing what he dishonestly intended to do, causing two of his Directors to leave in disgust.

I do wonder also why Kate had not worked since before the twins were born, was this her mental health, difficulties with Madeleine (and the twins also perhaps) or was it just that they planned to make a fortune from getting rid of little Maddie? I do think financial pressures went a long way to cause these two to behave in such a terribly criminal way, along with the abuse that I feel Madeleine was suffering. She just had to go, they felt there was something wrong with her IMO, whereas the twins were quite perfect enough for them.

viv said...

Hiya Di

Robert Murat and the hired rental car!!

I had forgotten about that, well done! Given he already had access to about three vehicles what on earth did he so insistently want to hire another one for?

I am not saying the taxi driver story is correct but it does fit in with the timings and where we can see the TAPAS group are particularly horrified by the insistent questions of Leicester Police at the rogatories, time period from about 5.30 to 9 pm I am quite sure this is when Maddie went missing and the most crucial time before is from 7 until 8, this is where the Paynes contradict each other in the extreme when explaining what they were supposedly doing.

There is a brilliant poster on 3 As actually hi de ho and she has clearly worked very hard on this. It is a pity some of the others do not listen to her a bit more!

http://www.the3arguidos.info/topic6319.html

The Police and CEOP do know exactly what they are doing, but some of these muppets sound more like paedophiles! A missing, abused and exploited little girl, do they not think that is the correct agency in UK to be dealing with this case. They do not see CEOP getting the McCanns by the throat or saying what a couple of abusers they are, so they are obviously helping them. Words really do fail me at the blinding ignorance some people display, or is it something far more sinister than that, a bit of both I think, depending on the poster.

On this thread Hideho asks, where was Payne between 6 and 8 and clearly shows the dishevelled and contradictory lies! Fiona even aggressively says to the officer investigating her, I know what you are thinking we did not do that (not verbatim) he replies, I am not thinking anything!

http://www.the3arguidos.info/topic6315.html

viv said...

Hiya again Di

Have a good night with your friends!

Dianne Webster

I think she is frightened and concerned to cover the truth to protect Fiona and her grandchildren. But for Fiona taking part I think she would probably have told the truth.

She has no problem dropping Gerry in it by saying he was not at the table when she apparently arrived with Fiona and David, supposedly late as usual (I think they were otherwise engaged).

She is clearly very suggestible to what others tell her to say and parts of her statement are obviously the truth it is just that she misses so much out and does her best to agree with others. Even the police when they are laying a trap for her.

I have no doubt she sat for hours in the dark on the patio, just simply horrified.

But what she has on her conscience is this IMO, the probable further serious abuse of little Maddie and the probable death of little Maddie. Maybe she alone could have saved both, if she had not just sat there transfixed at the table immediately realised what Fiona and Dave had been up to earlier on. I think she looked after the Payne's kids and Fiona looked after the twins.

viv said...

I suppose it comes back to this also, two trained anaesthetists sitting holding two obviously drugged twins, but they did not even pull their eyes open to look at their pupils, let alone say they needed hospitalising. They knew they had not drugged them too much I suppose, what utterly gruesome women.

viv said...

What was happening to poor little Maddie on 1 May, it hardly bears thinking about and that is what this lot all want to cover up.

I hope CEOP soon arrange for their arrest.

viv said...

Dublin arrived from google.ie on "JUSTICE FOR MADDIE AND THE TWINS" by searching for physic opinion on maddie's disappearance.
22:41:18 -- 5 minutes ago


You might as well move in!

viv said...

Really good old post from Ecolab, always subject to such abuse from the Pro McCanns, she had them sussed!

If you are around Eco, pop in!

Ecolab said...

As I wrote Viv yesterday at:
"Pictures Kates injuries on a variues date"
----------
Hi Viv

Picture number 3. You are asking : "May 11th - covered up: tension in neck, look of repressed rage or is it fear on
Kate's face?"

It is a little difficult to establish. The picture is not that good. I have blown it up 300 % and this is what it tells me.

" Gerry is very much in control of Kate and the situation. He is doing quite a job in trying to controll what the observer is allowed to see! He is so keen in his manipulation, that he forgets several things. It gives backlash.(Look at his shoulders, chest, hands, mouth and eyes.) He looks guilty like hell. He is trying to and thinking that, he is fooling the World.


Kate is letting herself being lead by Gerry. She is alert(red code). This one is classical for Kate. Right now, in this picture, she concentrate in listening every word said around her, and every glance there is put on her from people around her.
This is not rage, it is not fear. It is cold calculation. She is hiding and twisting every picture, sounds and words comming in her way. (I wouldnt mind listening to her intern dialoge - it is so hot, I can feel the heat)
I`m so happy, she is not my mum!


This one , Viv ...you got for free. ;-))

Greetings from Denmark

DK time 20:30

viv said...

Added the very sad picture of Rose being pulled from the river in a red bag which seems very similar to Gerry's missing tennis bag. No respect in life or death it would seem. Poor little four year olds.

viv said...

BBC News:23.5.07 "Mr and Mrs McCann, for BBC News. Errm, you said you will travel across Europe. Now, do you know when you're gonna go, where you're gonna go, is that dependant upon alleged sightings of Madeleine, and also at some point, you're gonna have to go home?"

Gerry: "Okay, I think we'll take... take that as two points there.

The first point... errm, about sightings of Madeleine. We've clarified that with the British police if they... if the information comes back to the British police, and I'm assuming it's the same for the Portuguese police if the information comes through here, Interpol will direct local inquiries through local police and it will be done through the local authorities.

I think, if we weren't certain that those inquiries were conducted to our absolute... errr, satisfaction we could consider sending someone out to investigate locally.

-----------

So from the outset he clearly understood, as we would expect, and as we all know, that international sightings were being investigated via Interpol and with local agencies then dealing with them in situ.

So what is this nonsense he is now talking about three years later, Ricardo Paiva should be sacked because he is not following up sightings? I am sure were are all waiting for the McCanns to tell us precisely which sightings have not been properly dealt with and no doubt Interpol await service of the Writ, with a one million pounds claim attached! Timbucktoo etc must be trembling as well for the ineptitude of their local plods.

viv said...

Post I have just made on J Morais blog, as for your "Dubliner" keep trying your posts are most illuminating!

140, Hi, aacg was most definitely a McCanner and arrived on the Halligen thread (alarm bells for them). The main thing this person tried to attack was one of the most damaging pieces of evidence of all against the McCanns, having those old photos read to hand to the police because that demonstrates beyond any doubt, this was a premeditated crime. Other typical McCann themes pushed was Madeleine was "beloved" by her parents and those that oppose her parents are preaching "hate".

But there are other McCanners on here too, just look for the ones who feel a need to keep aggressively attacking me and telling us the McCanns themselves made Maddie a Ward of Court, look for a few other themes too, I am sure you can spot them.

Martin Brunt has quite categorically stated that missing tennis bag belongs to Gerry McCann. People need to go back to the early evening and see just how desperately the TAPAS 7 are floundering when seeking to explain what they were up to at the Rogatories, even David and Fiona Payne directly contradict each other.

I have only ever been on the side of abused children, like little Madeleine so obviously was, warring adults, that is another matter.

Very sadly I do agree she is more than likely dead and all of that TAPAS group need to remember one thing, they could have prevented that and prevented that lovely little girl suffering any more abuse. But they did not!

viv said...

08/04/2010 00:20
Anonymous said... 142

BEWARE OF VIV @130

VIV @130
Your link to the express is meant to mean what??
This article as well you know is from the sunday express APRIL 12TH 2009 (NICE SLIMEY TRY)

Regarding MR Martin Smith:

Again as you well know your distorting the facts.

Mr Martin Smith did not make any comments to the trashy mailin early january 2008 or at any other time for that matter.
The Real Facts are there for all to see in the MC Cann files website click on The Smiths sightings heading and Eureka its all there, but of course you are well aware of this but for the record let me state some of the real facts here.

1.MR Martin Smith has never courted the media or indeed gave any comments to the mail at any time.

2.Mr Martin Smiths Lawyers sent letters to SIX Tabloids/papers and ALL papers printed an Apoligy to Mr Martin Smith.

3.Mr Martin Smith Never helped in any photo fits etc Recquested from him by Brian Kennedy .

4.Mr Martin Smith with some members of his family returned to Portugal(unlike the tapas gang) and made and signed statements on the 26th of May 2007 .

5.MR Martin Smith contacted his local police in september 2007 very upset, when after viewing on all the uk news stations, Gerry Mc Cann stepping off the plane from portugal carrying one of the twins Stating with an 80% probability that the man he had witnessed carrying the young girl on the night of May 3RD 2007 was in deed Gerry Mc Cann.

6.MR Martin Smith made and signed a further statement on January 30th 2008 Confirming Gerry Mc cann as the man they had witnessed that night carrying the Child and that his statement signed on May 26TH 2007 STILL STOOD.
Beware of Viv some times she Lies through every tooth in her head!!

A.Dubliner

viv said...

Sound like a Pro, act like a Pro!

viv said...

Dublin arrived on "JUSTICE FOR MADDIE AND THE TWINS".
13:37:23 -- 2 hours 53 mins ago

Keep picking up your McCann defending themes here, we are laughing at you!

viv said...

and here is the more subtle McCann approach, still laughing! I mean what did Gerry need this mega Fund for? Martin Smith and "family" well where are this "family's" statements? I think you mean just Martin Smith (and his two young kids), don't you?

08/04/2010 09:02
Anonymous said... 154

I think Martin Smith and family are the only reliable witnesses.
What could this family win and what could they lose?
Martin Smith (just like Goncale Amaral) is a brave man and I wish him and his family all the best.

viv said...

What follows are some little examples of Martin Smith "not courting the media"

Here is number one:

Drogheda family hit out over Madeleine case clue coverage, 08 August 2007

Drogheda family hit out over Madeleine case clue coverage Drogheda Independent

Wednesday August 08 2007

A DROGHEDA family who may hold vital clues as to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have hit out at media distortion of evidence that they have given to Portuguese police.

Maple Drive man Martin Smith, his wife and his children had just left the Kelly bar, which is located approximately 400 metres from the McCanns' apartment at the Ocean Club between 9.50-10pm on the night Madeleine disappeared.

They returned to Ireland the next day, and because the reported abduction times didn't originally match, they never had cause to examine their journey that night.

As it emerged that Madeleine was abducted around the same time, one of the family members had a flashback of the moment some time later and encouraged the others to jog their memory.

They remembered passing a man walking towards the beach with a child in his arms.

Other than his approximate height and the fact that he was wearing beige clothes they cannot be more specific than that. 'We are annoyed at how vague our description is,' said the family member.

The family contacted the Portuguese police and flew back over to give evidence.

However, contrary to media reports, Mr Smith had not seen chief suspect Robert Murat in a bar the evening that Madeleine was abducted. 'He definitely didn't see him on the night in question,' said a family member.

The family are also mystified at reports that he knows Mr Murat. 'They met once in a bar about two years ago. My dad would only know Mr Murat by sight,' said the family member. 'However, from what he knows, he can say that the man who was carrying the child was not Robert Murat.'

viv said...

Here is another one in Gerry's favourite The Sun/News of the World:

Irish family's Maddie quiz The Sun

From: VERONICA LORRAINE in Praia da Luz
Published: 03 Jan 2008

PRIVATE detectives hunting for Madeleine McCann are to quiz an Irish family who may have been the last to see her alive.

Martin Smith, his wife and children told cops they saw a man carrying a little blonde girl in Praia da Luz on the night Maddie vanished.

Investigators from the Metodo 3 agency hired by Maddie's parents Gerry and Kate are preparing to travel to Ireland to interview them.

The family, from Drogheda, Co Louth, believe they saw the man taking the sleeping tot down to the beach at the Portuguese resort.

The Smiths were leaving Kelly's Bar — 400 metres from the McCanns' apartment — between 9.50 and 10pm on May 3 last year.

They flew home to Ireland the next day, but when the times of Maddie's abduction were revealed, the family remembered seeing a man, 5ft 7in to 5ft 9in tall and dressed in beige, carrying the child.

Significantly the description matches that given by Jane Tanner, 37, a friend of the McCanns.

Mr Smith, who has already spoken to Portuguese cops over the sighting, said yesterday: "I'd talk to anyone to move this investigation on. I think about Maddie every day."

He added: "I found the Portuguese cops not to be the most efficient bunch."

His wife Mary, 59, said: "We saw a man carrying a blonde child. It was just such a normal thing to see in a holiday resort — we didn't think anything of it at the time."

The Sun reported on Monday how Metodo 3 — which is costing the Find Madeleine Fund £300,000 — plan to blitz Morocco after several leads pointed to the country.

viv said...

Maddy: We saw abduction Daily Mirror

Paul Byrne in Praia da Luz
3/01/2008

A family who may have seen Madeleine McCann being abducted could provide vital evidence in the search for the missing four-year-old.

The group saw a man walking towards the beach in Praia da Luz while carrying a child at the time Madeleine vanished, exactly eight months ago.

Portuguese police have taken statements from the family, who live in Drogheda, Ireland.

Now detectives hired by Madeleine's parents want to speak to Martin Smith and his family. The Smiths were leaving Kelly's Bar just before 10pm when they saw a man carrying a child 500 yards from the McCanns' apartment.

Kate McCann, 39, raised the alarm about her missing daughter at around 10pm.

The Smiths are thought to have described the man as white and 5ft 7in to 5ft 9in tall. His top clothing was obscured by the child. That description matches a suspect seen walking away from the apartment at about 9.15pm by Jane Tanner, a member of the "Tapas Seven" group of friends who were on holiday with the McCanns.

She saw a man carrying a child wearing pink pyjamas similar to those worn by Madeleine.

The McCanns' spokesman said yesterday: "Our detectives are being very methodical and I am quite sure that this family will be on their list."

The eight-month deadline means suspect Robert Murat, 34, hopes to be formally cleared today.

viv said...

Maddie: Irishman provides dramatic new clues Daily Mail (appeared in paper edition only)

EXCLUSIVE: Tourist met rude man carrying child in blanket on night Madeleine vanished

By SANDRA MURPHY, VANESSA ALLEN
January 3, 2008

AN IRISH holidaymaker has spoken publicly for the first time of his disturbing encounter with a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared.

Now investigators hired by Madeleine's parents hope Martin Smith and his family can provide a crucial breakthrough.

Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co. Louth, Mr Smith recalled the sighting, which is strikingly similar to one by a friend of the McCanns, Jane Tanner. In hindsight, the retired Mr Smith said, the mans rude behaviour should have aroused his suspicions.

He explained: "The one thing we noted afterwards was that he gave us no greeting.

"My wife Mary remembered afterwards that she asked him, 'Oh, is she asleep?' But he never acknowledged her one way or another.

"He just put his head down and averted his eyes. This is very unusual in a tourist town at such a quiet time of the year."

Their description of the barefoot child and the man, who wore beige trousers, echoes that of Miss Tanner, who said she saw a man carrying a sleeping child away from the McCanns apartment about 9.15pm.

Though the Smith family believe they met an almost identical man closer to 10pm, the coincidence prompted them to contact police after they returned to Ireland. Mr Smith said: "Luz is such a small place and so quiet, we felt a duty to tell police and let them decide if it was important."

Last night, McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said detectives from the Spanish agency Metodo 3 now hoped to speak to the family. "Metodo 3 is being very methodical, working through a number of people they think might be able to help them, and this family will be on their list."

On the night of the disappearance, Mr Smith was dining with his wife in the Dolphin restaurant in Praia Da Luz, where they are frequent visitors.

The couple were with their daughter Aoife, their son Peter and his wife Sile,as well as four grandchildren Tadhg, Cole, Aisling and Eimear.

All nine met the man holding a child but their recollection differs slightly from Miss Tanner's.

"In the image she gave, the man was holding the child forward in his arms. The man we saw had put the child over his shoulders. But Luz was very, very quiet at that time of the year and the likelihood of two young children being carried around like this is very small.

"Also, our timings are a bit different. She saw the man at 9.15pm. We say 9.45or 9.50pm and the sighting was only a five-minute walk from where the child was staying.

cont'd...

viv said...

"I dont know if this information will help the McCanns. We kept interested in whats going on but we tried to avoid the limelight."

The father of six yesterday said the Irish family would do anything they could to help the McCanns find their missing daughter.

"We have not been contacted by the private detective hired by the McCanns, and have had no contact with the investigating police since May 26 last year.

"But anything we can do to help try to solve it, we will." Recalling the event she witnessed, Mr Smith said it was some time before the family realised they could be star witnesses

"We were out the night it happened. My son and his family were leaving on the Friday and we were going for a family meal. We went home about 9.50pm and we heard nothing at all about Madeleine McCann until the next day.

"I was taking my son Peter to the airport and on my way back, I heard that a kidnapping had happened in the village of Luz.

"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless.

"We had two grandchildren with us at the time, aged four and five, and it had a terrible effect on them.

"They all wanted to sleep in the same room as us until we went home on the Wednesday.

"We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police.

"I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the phone.Then they asked me to make a statement to gardai, which I did in Drogheda two weeks after the disappearance.

"Two days later, Leicestershire police got on to us and said they wanted to speak to all nine of us. But we felt there was no point dragging grand children and the whole lot out to Portugal so just my eldest son, Peter, and youngest daughter, Aoife, and I flew to Luz to make a statement.

"The police were fairly busy and the station was pretty typical. They didnt seem to be the most efficient police you ever came across but they are probably no different to police anywhere else. We were interviewed separately and told them what we saw, and showed them on the map where we met the man and child.

"We spent the whole day there from 10.30am to 7pm with an interpreter. That day, May 26 last year, was the last time we had any contact with the investigation.I remember clearly because it was my wedding anniversary.

"I told them we went for dinner at the Dolphin Restaurant and then went on to have just one drink in Kelly's bar, just 50 yards away.

"We would normally have stayed out longer but my son and his family were going home the next day.

"As we made our way back to our apartment in Estrella da Luz, we met a guy with a child that appeared to be asleep.

"It looked like a blonde child, and I thought she might be four years old, as she was the same size as my grandchild who was with us.

"It was around 9.55pm and it was getting dark and he was looking downward so I couldnt tell you exactly what he looked like.

"None of us was 100 per cent sure what he was wearing but we all told police he was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s. I didnt think he was Portuguese." Insisting he knew chief suspect Robert Murat visually for years, Mr Smith told police the person he saw carrying a child could not be him.

"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat. I think I would have definitely recognised him."

viv said...

There are even more than this, but finally just wanted to flag up this little comment from Mr Martin Smith:

"I dont know if this information will help the McCanns. We kept interested in whats going on but we tried to avoid the limelight."

This is a man who has McCann type recall, after the event and most definitely courts the press, for even more examples, see:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

viv said...

The father of six yesterday said the Irish family would do anything they could to help the McCanns find their missing daughter.


ummmm

viv said...

The odd genuine poster on J Morais site is not too difficult to spot, this is one IMO, just talking plain common sense, but there are others talking about the McCanns property ought to be searched to find the body (as if it has not!!) and even more sick and bizarre, so called acid beds in Huelva, give it up guys, you are not even funny!


08/04/2010 07:51
Anonymous said... 149

In his 'moment of madness' scenario Gerry was not indicating anything aggresive. He was making out that what could have happened to Madeleine was more of an accident.

This may have been said around the time Kate was in the running for being the one who might have been charged for doing something to Madeleine which resulted in her death.

There was also Kate's diary left open to be found by the investigators telling of the difficulty Kate had of handlng the children.

Was some kind of defence being set up just in case Kate was charged?

viv said...

What do we see on McCann accounts that has cost a fortune, items like "awareness campaign", "poster campaign".

And what are all these campaigns about, sick paid posters with one aim in mind, it does not matter how sick and bizarre you are, how abusive and nasty you are, just make sure people think Madeleine disappeared whilst we were at the restaurant, get them to believe that Goncalo was right, at all costs stop them from talking about when we really got rid of Madeleine.

There is no limit to how depraved and disgusting some human beings are, or what they will do for money.

viv said...

Just a little reminder for you Dubliner as I can see my post bothered you so much (temper, temper):

This was a year ago, and so why is it, to this day, people are still denying it is HIM that wants the case re-opening in Portugal? Because he paid a lot for his "poster campaign"?


Sunday April 12,2009
By James Murray

DEVASTATED Gerry McCann wants police to reopen their investigation into the disappearance of his kidnapped daughter Madeleine.

viv said...

I will just explain the legal reasons for that one more time, if, Maddie went missing from the apartment in between 9 and 10, if she was indeed abducted by a stranger (um I know) then only Portugal would have jurisdiction to deal with that, and Gerry wants Ricardo sacked first (because he knows what Gerry is really like).

If, on the other hand, as all the evidence so clearly suggests, Maddie actually went from the apartment before they even went to the TAPAS that night, it means the McCanns and Co got rid of her and that means UK cops will be dealing with them. So Gerry was making one last desperate bid to get the case re-opened in Portugal, on his terms.

viv said...

Now that kind of places into context all the attacks on CEOP, British Police and Gordon Brown.

It is a bit sick really, isn't it, to suggest that all of those people are being nice to Kate and Gerry McCann, in their dreams!

viv said...

A terribly sad reminder as to why normal parents would not dream of doing what Kate and Gerry told us they did, leaving a 3 year old alone, with the door open, right next to a swimming pool and then worse still tell us that felt terribly safe. Utter lies!

Thank goodness a doctor was there and let us hope this little boy pulls through, for the parents I am sure they will admit, lesson learned!

viv said...

British boy, three, in 'serious' condition after falling into hotel swimming pool in Spain
By Mail Foreign Service
Last updated at 6:15 PM on 7th April 2010

The youngster disappeared as he played in the grounds of the country hotel near Malaga, Spain while his parents checked on their younger son.
A fellow guest spotted him lying fully-clothed in the deep end of one of the two swimming pools after a frantic search.
Hotel owner Claire Parish dived in to pull him out and a British doctor who was also a guest saved his life by giving him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation at the scene.

Today he was on a breathing machine in intensive care in hospital.
A spokesman for the Materno Infantil Hospital in Malaga, where he is being treated, said: 'His condition is serious.'
The incident happened yesterday afternoon around 4.30pm at Lagar Padre Aviles, a former convent converted into holiday apartments.
The apartments are close to the village of Olmas, around 15 miles from Malaga.
The boy's parents are thought to be from the London area.
British owner David Parish, who lives on site, said: 'I returned home just after it happened.
'Everyone was very distraught.
'There were lots of people on the terrace and around the pool and it appears the accident happened as the boy's parents took their eyes off him for a split second to go to their apartment.
'Everyone started searching for him when they realised he was missing.
'My wife Claire spotted him in the deep end of one of the pools and dived him in to pull him out.
'A British doctor friend of ours who was staying at the other apartment with his nurse wife gave him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and got his vital signs up and running while the police and paramedics were called.
'It was all very traumatic.
'He's now in hospital. He's unconscious and under sedation and breathing with the aid of a machine.
'His parents are by his bedside and his grandparents are flying out to be with them.
'We're looking after their younger child and just praying everything turns out okay.'
Police are expected to launch a routine investigation into the incident.
A spokesman said: 'Everything is pointing towards this being an accident.'

viv said...

Cameron confirms nothing good happened to the tories, they are still in favour of excluding and demonising members of British Society, stereotyping and prejudice go hand in hand with those whose prime concern is controlling the masses and being rich. Nothing must upset his "supporters". They are welcome to each other.


Cameron edits gay reference from pre-election speech

Conservative leader David Cameron has omitted gay people from his speech in central London today, ignoring Tory Headquarter briefing.

James Sanders
news.PinkPaper.com
Thursday, 8 April 2010
6 April 2010
Post your comment post a comment
Conservative leader David Cameron has omitted gay people from his speech in central London today, ignoring Tory Headquarter briefing.

Last night the party briefing detailed that Cameron would claim that his party are: "fighting this election for the Great Ignored: young, old, rich, poor, black, white, gay, straight.”

But when he gave the speech, from the city's South Bank this morning, the words gay and straight were omitted.

Hundreds of people have responded angrily via micro-blogging site Twitter, claiming that the move is proof that the Tories aren''t supportive of LGB issues.

It comes just days after MP Denis Knowles, who defected from Labour just one year ago, insulted gay people by referring to them as "limp-wristed."

Katie Hanson, National Chair of LGBT Labour said: “The irony that David Cameron ignored gay people in a speech about the great ignored is lost to no one. LGBT people will not be ignored in this election.

“Cameron and his Tories are hoping LGBT people will ignore their voting record on LGBT equality in this Parliament but time again the real Tory party reveals itself. Chris Grayling’s comments about B&B owners are yet to be tackled by David Cameron - how long will he go on ignoring gay equality issues.”

viv said...

The Conservatives, the McCann party of choice!

Esther McVey (although exited because they were embarassing her ambitions)

Clarence Mitchell

Andy Coulson

Edward McMillen Scott

I bet there are more than that who use this as a political issue to snipe at the Labour Party.

But one thing is for sure, the conservatives stand for corruption and greed, just like Kate and Gerry McCann.

All politicians are suspect and that does include many in the Labour Party also, it is fair to say. Jacqui Smith for one!

viv said...

08/04/2010 17:18
Bridget said... 158

Viv, ''The Dubliner'' is quite right, and for the life of me I cannot understand why you are taking this tack with regards to the Smith family.

I'm finding your posts more and more bizarre as time goes on. Can you not try to remain at least vaguely connected to the facts?
-----

As so many of my posts are not published by Jo Morais, I thought I would answer you here, take a look at all the press reports above from Martin Smith and then tell what these "facts" are you refer to?

I have said it before, there are two campaings going on here, the McCann campaign and the Goncalo campaign.

Then we have a few decent bloggers who are actually concerned about truth, justice and of course little Maddie McCann. Proud to be one of the few.

viv said...

08/04/2010 17:39
Anonymous said... 2

Can the new FOI powers covering the four bodies be applied retrospectively.
Will this allow us to find out why the delay in passing on information to the PJ.... amongst many other questions.
Are the walls about to come down?

Will Viv be proved right in her undying support for these bodies
or will they keep the information hidden, while they are working behind the scenes ....in their quest to get these clever people ?

mojo

I was right about premeditated, I was right about Tony Bennett and I was right about cashing in.

I am also right to point out that CEOP cannot and will not give the public details about investigations into sexual abuse of children.

I can only say again, some people have been making utter fools of themselves and some are just plain sick and corrupt.

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE via UK law enforcement agencies with the assistance of Portugal and other jurisdictions.

viv said...

LindaGilroy

is plane spotting! ... David Cameron flying out of Plymouth? They want to stop filming of the private jets his rich friends are lending him!

http://twitter.com/LindaGilroy

Ah well lending jets from rich friends is the tory way, the McCann way!

viv said...

Well this is just quite extraordinary! J Morais is a friend of someone who can write, see below!!!

Joana Morais said... 162

140 - aacg is a friend, and not a McCann parents supporter, aacg is here to find the truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann on the 3rd of May 2007 like me and you; questions raised by aacg are sometimes pertinent even if presenting opposing views and even if based sometimes in factual mistakes regarding the PJ case files, but aacg is not alone, I've read several comments posted here which are a total adulteration of the case files - people who don't read the MM process tend to make mistakes. One more thing it is hypocritical that you say «I can't reproduce here some of the material from FAKED ABDUCTION as it would be copyright violation - but it has some interesting material regarding the creche.» when the author of that book, like another person who has been using parts of this blog to publish booklets and PDF's, has been using material translated by this blog authors and the Maddie Case Files translators team without permission. Enough said.
08/04/2010 20:53

viv said...

01/04/2010 13:18
aacg said... 183

@ Anonymous 181
"why would they be thinking of sending her to live with relatives?"
Where have you learnt they were planning such a thing ?

=====

PJ question to Kate McCann, that she refused to answer,

Were you thinking of transferring custody of Madeleine to a relative.

viv said...

01/04/2010 13:14
aacg said... 182

@ 179
Do you expect me going through all the files ? I'm sorry, but I have no spare time for this. I read this, I'm sure of it, but as well I found no analysis of the quality of the paper and the ink proving that the pictures were done before the 3rd of may.
So if you can provide me a link to such a study, I'll find the time to look for the file document I mentioned.

viv said...

31/03/2010 22:40
aacg said... 172

Viv
"Gerry McCann playing with her the day before he got rid of her"
Which picture do you mean ?
The picture question has always amazed me but I never found any echo.
For me there's no common measure between the little girl in red with the very visible coloboma or the little girl biting her lips and the one with the tennis balls or the blue football club Tshirt. I don't recognize one in the other. Either these are different kids or quite different ages of the same one.

viv said...

31/03/2010 19:53
viv said... 165

accg The best I could hope for you is that you just close your eyes to what you do not want to see.

Have a look at Madeleine on the video with her snow white outfit on, biting her lip and looking utterly dejected. My mother was heartbroken when she looked at that. I have never seen anything so sad. Have a look at her being restrained by Kate and her grandmother from even reaching her own birthday cake. Have a look at how the last picture of Madeleine taken the day before on the tennis court just gets ignored in the McCann's campaign, in its stead they prefer an image of her in red dress with tinted red hair and an adult pose, aged about two, it is a good "marketing ploy", no doubt. But to appeal to whom, people who think adults can do children no harm, it gives him comfort says Gerry McCann?

Have a look at the picture of Gerry McCann playing with her the day before he got rid of her, and then trying seeing what other people see. Something that is so horrible it is hard to even contemplate, it is so cold and calculating.

Do not be so certain that the friends have got away with this and only the McCanns are in trouble, you may be in for one big shock!

viv said...

31/03/2010 17:31
aacg said... 156

What on earth qualifies you to say "beloved parents"

Nothing qualifies me ! Just my eyes, like yours, can see that this little girl was cherished !
Do please discriminate between what these people are as human beings (and who has enough wisdom to judge them ?) from a choice which was fatal in their case but finished well for their friends. Who has never done a bad choice ?
The rest comes from an unbearable feeling of guilt (an incapacity to assume one's choice consequences) and is a disaster, on that point I agree totally.

viv said...

31/03/2010 17:00
viv said... 153

aacg I do not think Joana prevents Pro McCanns from posting on this blog, indeed I have spotted many asking me the same tired old questions in order to try and discredit. But when you speak of Madeleine's "beloved parents", given their conduct and attitudes displayed, the smirks, the shrugs, the lies, the indifference. Kate's refusal to answer police questions as Clarence freely admitted due to fear she may incriminate herself. The investigations by both British and Portuguese Police convinced they are involved in her disappearance in some way because of their obvious and contradictory lies, indeed looking at every option, abandonment, homicide, kidnapping, do you not think those words would be highly inflammatory on here, given this is obviously a blog where primarily people simply do not believe the McCanns, they believe the police? If you come into a place and make inflammatory remarks where you know the vast majority of people are going to be very upset, given their concern about little Maddie, are you not trying to cause further upset by complaining about it?

What on earth qualifies you to say "beloved parents" in relation to a couple who took her on holiday with them and then proceeded to dump her every hour they possibly could and then relied on their own child neglect to defend themselves?

viv said...

31/03/2010 16:59
aacg said... 152

One nanny printed the pictures, on her own printer and with her own paper. A document proves it.

I do care what Martin Grime says.
Interestingly he mentions that his dogs don't react to the synthetic molecule called "cadaverin".
I find very interesting the article I mentioned above, which in fact shows that very few scientific researches are done on trained dogs' capacities and that the odour volatile molecules aren't yet deciphered.

-----

an absolutely blatant lie, there is no document whatsoever that proves any such thing, but there are lots of documents that say the police think the nanny Amy is a wicked liar! As can be seen above when this aacg is pressed to name her source, she says she cannot be bothered to look, then maybe she should not tell such lies!

viv said...

31/03/2010 15:27
aacg said... 148

I'm sorry Joana, but 146 is unfounded argumentum ad hominem as well. I'm, as you know, neither a pro nor anti MC, but only interested in defending GA's right to freedom of speech, even if I don't agree with his team's conclusions (I don't agree with the MCs' doxa as well).
Posters like A146 discredit your blog. They finally behave exactly as those they critic, the MC team, imposing their version of events.

Not only Madeleine, who loves or loved her parents, would be horrified by so much hostility, but GA too !

=====

At least here I can agree with this poster, I do not agree with GA either and there are certainly people who would discredit any blog with their ridiculous comments and theories.

But I do not think a police officer who has investigated a serious and ongoing criminal case has any right to "freedom of speech" either and he would know that perfectly well.

How would police fare all over the world if there officers retired and then started writing books about unsolved cases!!

viv said...

31/03/2010 13:07
aacg said... 139

@ A 119
Without confrontation or at least inquiry about Mrs G.'s mental state, her testimony is just about her feeling concerning DP. We don't know whether such a conversation occurred at all. Her husband is less affirmative, is he reluctant to admit a fact that disturbs him or is he reluctant to contradict his wife ?
I would never have reacted like Mrs G., I would have reacted as soon as I had heard what she says she heard. She says there was some silent embarrassment, but her reaction is just the same : null.

----

Both Savia and Katerina Gaspar describe the lewd conduct of David Payne and Gerry not once but twice!

This looks to me like a poor attempt to discredit serious witnesses in this case.

What does aacg's presumed reaction have to do with Dr Gaspar?

And what right does aacg have to even question her mental health!

viv said...

Goncalo told us this happened by accident when they were at The Tapas, wrong!

No amount of manipulation is going to make him right, or the McCanns!

Two wrongs do not make a right!

viv said...

"here to find the truth of what happened to Madeleine like me and you"

Words simply fail me sometimes, Joana Morais is fundraising and conducting a campaign to support Goncalo Amaral.

Books, fundraising, paypal accounts, what is the difference to Kate and Gerry McCann, there is no difference, Madeleine has become like some pawn in a sick game. Both of these two warring sides often finish up using the same arguments to try and make themselves look right.

There is only one thing that is right, the police and Justice for little Maddie.

I hope that people can have a look into their consciences if they ever possessed one and stop this appalling behaviour.

viv said...

Speaking of appalling behaviour, Clarence Mitchell, March 2009, speaking of 3000 psychic tipoffs that needed to be worked through to extract any "facts". This is not a comedy sketch, Mr Mitchell..

---

"Sadly, the files have not revealed any substantial new leads," says Mitchell. "And sadly, they have confirmed a lot of what Kate and Gerry feared: that things haven't been done properly in certain areas, and certain things hadn't been followed up." The detective agencies they hired are no longer on the case. Have a dozen British former detectives and security service agents been employed instead, as reported? "I can't go into details, because the investigators don't wish me to. The investigation is on a smaller scale, but just as relevant."

There is still a huge amount of material to work through: such as more than 3,000 "psychic tip-offs. Any verifiable fact in them – and some are very detailed – has to be checked".

viv said...

Here is another report on the apparent Martin Smith sighting, the Portuguese Police dismissed his testimony. I am not surprised. How odd for him to say well my wife thought so too but she does not want to give a statement. What when they want to help the McCanns find their missing little girl, you are so credible Martin?!

Seems to me that once Gerry is sure he is a murder suspect Kennedy gets Smith to actually say it was Gerry he saw, oh the games they play, knowing it cannot be proved, but does cover up when she really went and what they did with her. Nasty!

viv said...

The McCanns contacted the Irish Smith family, which says they saw Gerry, to a certainty of 60 to 80 percent, carrying a little girl towards the beach, on the evening when Maddie disappeared. But the contact was apparently made with the purpose of drawing a photofit of the alleged abductor, according to what the Irishman told the police in his country.

In the Maddie case process, this contact was reportedly made by Brian Kennedy, the Scottish millionaire who financially helped the McCanns in the search for their daughter. The Irish officer who questions M. Smith, in Dublin, writes in his communication to the Portuguese police that Smith refused to participate in the making of the photofit and that he did not tell the story of what he saw to the McCanns’ friend.

The moment in which Maddie’s parents contact M. Smith is not clear. But the Irish witness only refers it to the authorities when he is heard on the 23rd of January, after seeing the images on television that livened his memory, on the 9th of September: when Gerry leaves the plane in the United Kingdom and turns his head down, M. Smith identifies the gesture as similar to what he saw in Praia da Luz four months earlier.

What woke up Smith’s memory?

Days after this ‘click’, the Irishman told the Leicestershire police about his suspicions; the witness also stated that it might have been the way in which Gerry transported one of the twins that made him feel that the man who he saw near the Ocean Club could have been Maddie’s father.

Smith even clarifies that he discussed that perception with the other members of his family, who also saw the man carrying the child in Praia da Luz, but only his wife had the same feeling. Nevertheless, she did not want to give a deposition.

M. Smith also tells that he was harassed by the media that published false declarations in his name, and that at least six newspapers apologized. The Irish policeman who led the questioning refers that he does not believe that Smith is trying to please the press, given the fact that he is, in his own opinion, an authentic person and known locally as a very decent man.

It is remembered that the alleged abductor was seen by the entire family, and it was the conviction of the three members, who were heard by the PJ on the 26th of May 2007, that the child was Madeleine. The street where the encounter took place is approximately five metres wide.

PJ drops lead?

After M. Smith contacted the British authorities, the Portuguese police is informed about this new perception from the Irishman. On the 27th of September, the PJ contacts the witness and confirms the information, as well as his availability to come to Portugal, once more, to give a new statement. A trip that never happened.

After Gonçalo Amaral left, on the 2nd of October, the PJ requests a new deposition from the witness through the Irish police. This only takes place four months later, at the end of January, and arrives into the PJ’s hands on the 19th of February.

But the Smiths’ witness statement was dismissed by the Portuguese authorities, because it was established that at the time of the sighting, Gerry was at the Tapas restaurant. According to the process, this information was corroborated by the friends of the couple and was not contested by the employees, who are unable to identify who is who and at what time the elements from the group left and returned to the restaurant.

It is also remembered that the Public Ministry recognizes contradictions in the depositions by the friends, and considered that the reconstitution would be a very important diligence, in order to clarify the incoherencies.

Without indicia that the McCann couple committed any crime, the Public Ministry ordered the archiving of the process. On the 21st of July, Kate and Gerry, along with Robert Murat, saw the arguido status lifted.


source: IOL Portugal Diário, 06.08.2008

viv said...

Of course interfering with proper police witnesses/seeking to intimidate them/pervert the course of justice is a serious criminal offence. I am sure Brian Kennedy knew that, no problem with Mr Martin Smith and his numerous newspaper articles, the hallmark of a non police, McCanned/paid/friendly to the defence type of witness.

I hope you get prosecuted Mr Martin Smith and fancy dragging your kids into it!

viv said...

oh whoops David Payne, grilled by Leicester Police about a tennis bag he goes to say hide a a oh I must just change what I was going to say, love the way the police officer just goes yeah! What is anything like a tennis racquet that you would hide in a tennis bag then David!


"There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…”
-----------
David Payne
"Virtually. Do you know whether they took their own tennis kit out?”
00:03:23 Reply "Err no they didn’t.”
1485 "They didn’t take the kit out?”
Reply "No.”
1485 "But when I said…”
Reply "Oh sorry when you say the tennis kit…”
1485 "When I say kit.”
Reply "I’m talking about the, err racquet and b*lls they didn’t take.”
1485 "Kit in, you know, kit in general is gonna mean the attire and…”
Reply "Err, did they have any specific tennis gear? You know (inaudible) I don’t, I, I don’t recall that they had anything specific you know to play, you know, we all have what we ha, call tennis gear you know, not the stuff that you probably go swimming in and you know…”
---------------------

"What about a kit bag? Would they have a kit bag with them?”
Reply "Err he certainly didn’t have a great big tennis bag or a, you know, err I mean I used to be a squash, a semi-professional squash player and you know they certainly didn’t have anything that I would call a kit bag from days when I played…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "You know, a lot of sport, err if they had a rucksack with some water in that would be, you know, about as big as it got, you know a small rucksack. But it certainly wasn’t a big tennis, you know, things that you could put a tennis racquet in.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "It would have been something that had their water in.”
1485 "So as opposed to a bag it’d be something like a rucksack, if at all?”
Reply "If, if at all, yeah.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "Yeah.”
1485 "And is that the same for Kate?”
Reply "Yeah, yeah.”

viv said...

Well what would you be thinking if you was the police officer, I can forgive him sounding just a bit sarcy, yeah, yeah!

viv said...

Well in search of the erm "truth" we have Joana Morais on one side and then Rabidpops and her posters on the other, who certainly provide the better comedy spectacle as this post from Leonor Lawyer demostrates, ho hum which of these eloquent sides to believe is wanting to tell us the truth eh?

But anyway Psychopops no hard feelings this is pure comedy!

by Leonor lawyer Yesterday at 10:47 pm
To Mr Beast Gonçalo de Sousa Amaral:


 

Just a few words about your new, false and defaming complaint against me to the Portuguese Bar, because we know that you Mr Beast Gonçalo, and your satanic followers, use to read this website.


How can you even insinuate that you’re not a beast? Don’t you have mirrors in your luxury apartment? For Jesus sake, don’t lie so much! We know that your horns can not be seen cause their are well hidden, but please don’t try to hide your bestiality! It’s too much!


So, you say that you’re not a beast? Hypocrite you are!

Just remember,


- The horrors you’ve done and you’re still doing to Madeleine, Kate and Gerry;


- The horrors you’ve done and you’re still doing to Joana, Leonor and Leandro;


- The horrors you’ve done and you’re still doing to Diana, Ana and José;


- The horrors you’ve done and you’re still doing to all the children victims of violence, and their parents, by protecting the criminals involved on Joana and Madeleine kidnappings;


- The horrors you’ve done and you’re still doing to all the good Portuguese and British citizens by incentivizing a fascist country and a fascist police based on fake criminal investigations using torture;


Is not enough?


So, do you still maintain you’re not a beast?


Of course you are, and me and my witnesses are just going to confirm that to the Bar.


And may I inform you that the appeal of Leandro to the superior Court of Évora is already done and delivered in the Court of Faro? Yes, it’s true, so don’t sing victory yet.


And by the way, even if the fascist regime continues to protect you, don’t worry: true Justice will always be done in the end! I’m not atheist neither a Satan follower! So, True Divine Justice will always win in the end! Do you want to wait to see? Maybe it will be too late then... So, here’s my advice to you: repent of all the evil you are, ask forgiveness to all these innocent children and their parents, and divulge the names of all the criminals involved in those monstrous crimes against them, and only then I’ll stop calling what you are: a BEAST! A ferocious beast from the depths of Hell.


WE ARE WATCHING YOU.

viv said...

Just a small point I suppose but bestiality, human who has sex with animals, in terms of the allegations from the "Pro" side against Goncalo Amaral, that is getting a little strong!

viv said...

Anonymous said... 170

I had questioned some of aacgs comments, politely, I hope,because my understanding was that this site supported Mr Amaral's position; as I do.He believed that M died in the apartment and his libel case is based on this. aacg seemed to be posting that there was no evidence of a death in the apartment, so I'm somewhat confused now. I know aacg supported Mr Amaral's right to free speech, but I didn't understand his position in some postings.
09/04/2010 11:23

Confused? Well I am sure that is not what Rosiepops or Joana want is it, both sides are just trying to explain the truth admittedly in the most confusing way. Pity the Judge!

viv said...

I am going to award a "rep point" to both sides.

Madeleine probably was abducted from the McCanns apartment around 6.30 to 8.30 on 3 May 2007 and there is no evidence that she died in the apartment, but there is a lot of evidence her parents were involved in her disappearance and she may well be dead now.

But this is not actually a game for warring adults to play, and make huges pots of cash out of is it? It is about a real missing little girl.

viv said...

and as for "parents cannot be convicted of kidnapping their own child"

I would say don't be so silly, what do you think Karen Matthews got 8 years for? If you check I think you will find this was the major offence she was convicted of.