7 Feb 2008

DAILY EXPRESS PULL MCCANNS TO BE CLEARED ARTICLE

ARTICLE MISSING
The article you are looking for does not exist. It may have been deleted.

20.02 7.2.08 DOLORES ONE OF MY REGULAR POSTERS POINTED OUT TO ME THIS HAD HAPPENED..I HAD THE ARTICLE AND CURRENT DISCUSSION OPEN ON MY COMPUTER TRIED TO REFRESH THE PAGE TO GET THE ACTUAL ARTICLE AND GUESS WHAT CAME UP - YES IT HAS BEEN PULLED. I DONT WANT TO SAY TOO MUCH OTHER THAN NEWSPAPERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PRINT ANYTHING THAT MAY PREJUDICE AN IMPENDING COURT CASE. I THINK THEY GAME MAY WELL BE UP FOLKS AND THE DAILY EXPRESSED GOT WARNED TO PULL THIS MCCANN SPIN..I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF THE PJS ARE HERE REAL SOON!!

You can still get to all the posts - but not the article of course here:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/comments/viewall/34134/10

At the time of updating this 21.40 7.2.08 there is another article on the DE but all the Pro-parents including Rosiepips, Blandz and U2 have done a runner ha ha! It is a weird forum tonight with out all those boring dribblers on there - quite readable in fact!

Viv x
ARTICLE SUMMARY

Madeleine detectives ‘set to clear McCanns’
POLICE in Portugal are preparing to shelve the investigation into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance, it was reported yesterday.




NANDA
07.02.08, 3:11pm
Of course I will. But she will probably jus logg on later.If you're close to a tv, TVI.
• Posted by: Claudia79Report Comment



ONACLEARFELICITY
07.02.08, 3:11pm
The apartment wasn't 120 yards away, it was the other side of a swimming pool away (more like 50m). Yes, it was 120 yards away by foot, but this is an important distinction. My perception is that the McCanns and their friends FELT close to their apartment. Look out of your window and look at something 50m away - it will look much closer than it would in a photo or on tv. The problem was that the perception gave them a false sense of security. The actual distance, as you say is much further. An abductor, who watched their movements would have known that. The McCanns apartment was the closest to the road, the obvious target.And no, I would not leave my children unattended like that - nor do I condone others doing it (before you ask)
• Posted by: U2Report Comment



CLAUDIA
07.02.08, 3:10pm
Would you please do me a favour?In 45 ' have to go. if Athena pops in , please let her know i wish her a pleasant flight .
• Posted by: nandaReport Comment



HIMANDZ I HOPE YOUR WELL ;-0 WELL IF 120 METRES IS THE LENGTH OF THEIR GARDEN THEY SHOULD SELL IT IN HOUSING PLOTS AND STOP ASKING THE PUBLIC FOR MONEY FOR A FUND
07.02.08, 3:09pm
HI BIGL 07.02.08, 2:50pmWhat has this got to do with us.. for neglect charges?? Don’t you think that is up to the Portuguese?As for the McCanns you are forgetting about the other Tapes who also left their children?You might say you are embarrassed to be British however I most certainly am not far from it. The McCann’s left their children relating it to be of the same at home (garden). I’m sure the authorities could quite easily and have probably checked this out? I’m sure you are aware that in the summer people put the wee ones to bed whilst they eat outside in their gardens whilst having a BBQ. My stance on this is that this sort of thing happens in all Countries not just “British” parents however I feel jail will not touch or teach this couple a lesson because they have their punishment.• Posted by: Mandz • Report Comment
• Posted by: big_LReport Comment



JANEGT
07.02.08, 3:09pm
You regard abduction as a strong probability based on what information?You stated this in your posting. As this is a HYS forum, I thought you would say why you think this is a strong probability?Myself, i am waiting to be convinced on the abduction, so I still have an open mind.
• Posted by: nedd07Report Comment



ZODIAC TWINS
07.02.08, 3:09pm
whoever got it done, thank God they did, but not before 100's of shorts were taken of them (some outrageously posed 'the hardest goodbye' - Kate says good bye to her daughter before visiting the Pope - daughter cradles cat etc) and of course all the news film footage that was taken - worst being : Gerry declares his innocence on tarmac in front of one child asleep and one awake!. The McCanns should have insisted on the twins privacy from the word not used them as props for sympathy. Ooh, I'm cross now!
• Posted by: LizzyCReport Comment



HEY... HI AND BYE TINKS
07.02.08, 3:08pm
:-)
• Posted by: Meyhico_PedroReport Comment



JANE
07.02.08, 3:07pm
BIG L now read your post. Read a lot worse that were not deleted by the DE. I feel Clarrie has his eye on this forum................as there are far more watched posts than ever before IMHO._________________i'm here with a friend of mine that is just saying you're right. last night many postsaddressed to Alsabella were removed because they were too abusive.But I know Alsabella as a great lady must have managed it amazingly.
• Posted by: nandaReport Comment



RAT "HASTY" IS AN ENGLISH WORD SO OBVIOUSLY HE DID NOT SAY THAT EXACTLY...
07.02.08, 3:07pm
but my question to you was did he express a sentiment in portugese that conveyed his feeling that his collegues had benn a bit quick off the mark in making the mcCanns arguidos...because if he didnt.... there is a mager scandal to be exposed in the way the man has been pisrepresented by press and t.v.but if he did.... well then as I suspected. You had nothing to contribute in the first place... youre just making noise.So did he?(and don't say he didn't say "hasty" he's portugese... I know he didn't).
• Posted by: Meyhico_PedroReport Comment



U2
07.02.08, 3:06pm
Are you accusing the British government of being corrupt?• Posted by: U2 • Report CommentYou know, I'm a bit more intelligent than that, U2. You disappoint me.And who said I was refering to the British government? Do you have something you want to share with us?P.S: Yes, I do believe that if you have friends in high places or if you have some sort of power your life is easier. Anywhere on planet Earth.• Posted by: Claudia79 • Report Comment-----------------------------------------If I'd known you were referring to the British government or, conversely, if I'd known you weren't referring to the British government, I wouldn't have needed to ask the question, would I?• Posted by: U2 • Report CommentYou are either being sarcastic or not as intelligent as I thought.But I do find it interesting that you chose to use the words you did. Revealing...
• Posted by: Claudia79Report Comment



MANDZ
07.02.08, 3:04pm
You think going to the bar in another building 120yds away is like having a barbecue in the garden?That its acceptable to leave a three year old looking after her twin siblings? Shame on you.These two doctors who must have dealt with some of the terrible injuries that befall children did this every night of their holiday and it should be accepted because of their loss?You are effectively saying it doesn't matter what fate befell Madeleine that caused her parents to conceal her death and stage a kidnap nor where they disposed of her body- they've suffered enough the PJ should let them go?You cant excuse the inexcusable. Justice for Madeleine.
• Posted by: onacleardayReport Comment



BIGFUSS
07.02.08, 3:04pm
MANDZ YOU JUST QUOTED ONE OF THEIR FAMOUS LIES07.02.08, 2:58pmThe McCann’s left their children relating it to be of the same at home (garden). • Posted by: bigfuss • Report CommentCan you give me the distance from the bottom of their garden to their house.....?Very much appreciated however disappointed you have not mentioned the other tapes that left their children and what was their reasons?
• Posted by: MandzReport Comment



PEDRO 2:23PM
07.02.08, 3:04pm
Here, Here. "See" you later!
• Posted by: Tinkerbell43Report Comment



PUZZLED
07.02.08, 3:03pm
You should try reading things properly, then,I did not say that he didn't say HASTY, because actually he did.He did NOT say TOO HASTY.There's a difference.He didn't say that making the McCs was a mistake, either, as has been reported in some of the papers here.
• Posted by: ratonthebeamReport Comment



ELIZABETH
07.02.08, 3:03pm
You should, again, get your facts straight. That swinging rumour has nothing to do with the police. It was, in fact, denied right away. But if you do think it was, then I assume that the ex British police officers who trashed the PJ were speaking on behalf of the British police?
• Posted by: Claudia79Report Comment

64 comments:

felicity said...

Ha ha, I have been on a frantic rush to see what I can grab off the Daily Express before it gets pulled and look what this horrible fat twit wrote..presumably seeking to entice me@-) Well guess what you horrible fat twit - they just pulled the article saying they are going to get cleared, so without getting all legal and technical with you - and I know you read me..does that answer your question? If not pop in and I will try and help you..

Luv Viv x


Legal precedent
Published: Thursday February 7,2008 by U2
I wonder if anyone can answer the following question - i don't have enough knowledge of legal proceedings.

Lets assume that the reports are correct and Madeleine's DNA has been found in the apartment (100% match) and the hire car (100% match). Lets also assume that bodily fluid evidence (80+% match to Madeleine) has been found in the hire car and that that fluid could only have come from a dead body. We are also told that the cadaver dog alerted to Kate McCanns clothes, the hire car key, cuddle cat and the boot of the hire car itself.

Assuming the above, what would be in doubt?

1. How Madeleide died - was it an accident or not?
2. Who killed her or who was responsible for leaving her in a position to have a fatal accident.
3. What was done with her body?

My question is the following: why is there all this talk of detectives being "set to clear the McCanns"? On the basis of the reported evidence, convicting the McCanns of neglecting their children resulting in Madeleine's death shouldn't be a problem for the Portugeuse court. Likewise, surely it would be easy to convict them of concealing her body and perverting the course of justice (if such a charge exists in Portugal?)

My conclusion is that the reported evidence is either heavily exaggerated by the media and/or that it is so ambiguous that it wouldn't stand up to examination. It also occurs to me that the "neglect" is not seen by the Portuguese authorities as being as clear cut as many on this forum seem to think.

felicity said...

WOW SOMETHING SCARED THE DAilY EXPRESS THEY EVEN DELETED DEAR ROSIE THEIR FAVOURITE POSTER:

Excellant!

**Removed**
Published: Thursday February 7,2008 by Rosiepops
***The Daily Express moderators reserve the right to remove any comments that may break the terms and conditions of the forum at our sole discretion.***

felicity said...

THE REPULSIVE MCMANDZ:

How dare she insult and upset Mrs Bulger by comparing her with the McCanns and suggesting she should not be punished - YOU VILE WOMAN! Hang your head in shame - it is a good job you are anonymous! Obviously Rosie agrees...

-------------------------

and neither were the mccann's in the pub getting bladdered, as you so eloquently put it!
Published: Thursday February 7,2008 by Rosiepops
LOZ22
07.02.08, 5:41pm

MANDZ
07.02.08, 5:17pm
dont even try to compare the jamie bulger case with this one, the mother was not in the pub getting bladdered
• Posted by: loz22 • Report Comment

No but he was taken from his mother who was not keeping an eye or holding him. Now I don’t believe she or the McCanns should be punished just for the record.

Ps I don’t remember asking for your permission to HMS..? Just so you know I don’t need it.



• Posted by: Mandz • Report Comment
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They were approximately 89 steps away to eat their evening meal and had a couple of glasses of wine. Let's try and keep things real and not exaggerate, it really doesn't help Madeleine at all.

Dylan said...

Viv,

Gosh! Know i said i wouldn't be back tonight but i have a very small window.

Checked out the DE - it certainly has been deleted. What an enigma??!
Surely something big is happening?
I even went back and tried to back-track from "the bolshy one" straight to article but that route's cut off too. Bizarre.

I will definately make time to pop back later. And oh - good work with the salvage of de posts. How do you do it? You really are a clever little sausage aren't you?!

Dyl x

felicity said...

Hiya Dyl

I think something big is breaking and I am going to continue to record some of their repulsive comments..just for the record!

Poor Mrs Bulger after what those two sick kids did to her beautiful little boy - it will not just be the McCanns who be reviled but their sickening drones as well. What disgusting "human beings".

Viv x

felicity said...

YOU ARE GOING TO WISH YOU NEVER SAID THIS ROSIEPOPS

LUV VIV XXXX


Mccann's arguido status to be removed
Published: Wednesday February 6,2008 by Rosiepops

The row led to calls in Portugal for Mr Ribeiro to stand down and he reportedly apologised to his boss, justice minister Alberto Costa, over his remarks. But yesterday Mr Ribeiro received the minister’s public backing.

He said: “The fact Mr Ribeiro is still in his job indicates what I think.”

So does this mean that Alberto Costa also thinks the McCann's were made arguidos to hastily and that there is no evidence to bring charges?

It says the arguido status may be removed within months, I think it needs to be a lot faster than that, after all they slapped it on them quickly enough to beat the Portuguese law change!

Does this mean that these elusive rogatory letters are now not going to come to the UK? Or maybe they never existed in the first place?
What a complete mess.

felicity said...

You are the evil pervert, Rosiepops

Luv Viv xxx

-----------------------------------

bolshy
Published: Thursday February 7,2008 by Rosiepops

(stop breathing my air - I strongly object)

Didn't stop someone evil pervert murdering their daughter though did it?

dolores said...

Viv
I get so sad and upset when people bring in comparison's like Jonbenet Ramsey and Jamie Bulgar, who suffered of the most dreadful and cruel deaths and Joanna Cipriano, why can't they leave them in peace.
Who are these people who speak so matter of fact and with no compassion for these dear little departed souls.
God forgive them for their cruelty.

felicity said...

WHY DO YOU HATE GONCALO AMARAL SO MUCH ROSIE - ARE YOU GERRY HIMSELF?? HE IS A GOOD, KIND NATURED MAN, WHO DEALT WITH THESE TWO APPROPRIATELY AND WILL BE HONOURED FOR BRINGING JUSTICE FOR MADDIE!! Criminals always hate the police and see themselves as the victims..Decent people honour and respect them! As you like the sound of our own voice so much I am sure you will love me recording you on here :-)

GOD BLESS LITTLE MADDIE
GOD BLESS GONCALO AMARAL A TRULY WONDERFUL MAN

Luv Viv xx

-----------------------------------
lizzyw1
Published: Thursday February 7,2008 by Rosiepops
ELAINE
07.02.08, 6:17pm

What would help in finding Madeliene is if the parents and friends told the truth of what really happened that night and didn't try to stop the truth in coming out. That is the best way to get to the truth , ditch the Pr man and answer all the PJ questions voluntarily, never mind waiting for the Rogatory letters. Tell the police there is no need for them they will answer the questions to clear up any inconsistancies in Portugal.
If they are innocent there should be no problem in doing this and is what other parents in this situation would do. But they won't though and why not.?

• Posted by: lizzyw1 • Report Comment
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

how do you know they are not telling the truth?

What do want them to say? That they killed their daughter just to please some on here, even if they didn't? I find this argument to be really disturbingly simple.

Try to stop the truth coming out? They haven't even out their side because they are threatened with up to two years in prison if they do, yet the PJ hide behind Portugal's archaic secrecy laws whenever it suits them.

From what I have read and have learned about the PJ, I would have done exactly the same as the McCann's.

they were threatened with having their children taken away from them, they were in a strange place unable to speak the language and learn they were to be accused of harming their abducted daughter.

Gerry McCann was told the Pj had evidence of Kate harming Madeleine, but when he asked to see it, it was refused. It turned out this evidence was just about the sniffer dogs.

They were probably advised on which questions to answer and which not to by their Portuguese lawyer.

It is extremely unfair of the Pj to accuse the McCann's of not answering questions by way of leaking to the Portuguese press, especially when the McCann's were just using the arguido status that Goncalo Amaral awarded them. It seems that Amaral wanted his cake and eat it, he wanted to make them arguidos before the law changed before the McCann's left Portugal, but he did not want them to exercise their rights under that status.

very unfair.

felicity said...

Dolores

I think you are a better soul than me. I can find no forgiveness in my heart for these people only pure revulsion.

They are very wicked to use people who have suffered terrible loss and sadness and compounded that by linking their name to this dreadful couple. To me this is absolutely unforgiveable and really beggars belief that they could be so depraved.

However, I think justice draws nearer and I do pray they will now please stop this for the sake of all the innocent people they have hurt. May they hurt no more or cause any more human suffering and misery. I hope Mr Murat is innocent and will feel much better very soon. I feel in my heart that he is.

Luv ~Viv x

felicity said...

Apparently the Daily Telegraph have also pulled a similar article but the Daily Mail have not...here it is just in case that goes as well..togeher with readers comments.

Viv x

Madeleine police 'to clear McCanns but admit case will be never be solved'
Last updated at 08:41am on 7th February 2008

Comments (54)

Police investigating Madeleine McCann's disappearance are preparing to shelve the case without bringing charges against her parents, it was claimed yesterday.

Portugal's most senior policeman is set to "drop" the nine-month case without accusing any of the named suspects or solving the mystery surrounding Madeleine's disappearance, it was reported.

Sources said comments by Alipio Ribeiro, the head of the Policia Judiciaria, showed he was preparing an "exit strategy" to allow the investigation to be filed.

Scroll down for more ...


Kate and Gerry McCann could soon have their suspect status lifted as police plan to give up on the case

He caused uproar last weekend when he said his officers had rushed the decision to name Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects, and that they should have re-evaluated the evidence against the couple first.

Critics accused him of having "killed" the investigation and he later apologised privately to the detectives leading the high-profile inquiry.

But yesterday senior officers said they believed he could have been testing public opinion in Portugal, to see if the time was right to shelve the case, which has been dogged with problems.

One high-ranking official told the Portuguese newspaper Diario de Noticias: "He has dropped the case."

Scroll down for more ...


Madeleine may never be found and the case may never be solved, it has been claimed

The newspaper reported: "In admitting there was haste in making the McCanns arguidos, the national director is preparing public opinion for the possibility of no charges being brought, because of a lack of evidence."

Filing the case would be an embarrassing public climbdown for Mr Ribeiro, who sent his most trusted deputy Paulo Rebelo to take control of the investigation in November.

But police have failed to find conclusive forensic evidence or any compelling witness statements to support their theory that Madeleine died in her parents' holiday apartment in Praia da Luz and that the couple then hid her body and faked her abduction.

The McCanns' legal team, which includes some of Britain and Portugal's most influential lawyers, has seized on Mr Ribeiro's comments and has repeated calls for the couple to be cleared as suspects.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said they wanted the Attorney General in Lisbon to review the case within days.

But under Portuguese law the case could be filed with them remaining as named arguidos, and without being formally cleared they would still have to live under the cloud of suspicion.

Mr Mitchell said: "We don't want the case to be archived in any way. We still believe Madeleine could be alive, so the police must keep an operational inquiry going, looking for a missing person.

"Of course we want Gerry and Kate to be cleared as suspects, but we do not want the police to stop looking for Madeleine.

"We will never give up the search for her."

It is not the first time Mr Ribeiro has suggested that the case could go unsolved.

In November he said: "I don't know if there will be arrests in the Madeleine case."

He has repeatedly denied claims that he is under pressure from Britain to drop the case against the McCanns, both 39-year-old doctors from Rothley, Leicestershire.

The idea of filing the case was first raised by Portuguese police last August - two weeks before the couple were named as formal suspects.

The investigation's then spokesman, Olegario Sousa, said: "Naturally if we do not have any definite culprit or culprits, the case will be sent to the archive. "If at any time new and important facts come to light, the investigation could be re-opened."

The McCanns have always denied any involvement in their daughter's disappearance, as has the other named suspect in the case, British expat Robert Murat.

It is not clear whether his arguido status would be affected if the case was to be shelved.

The property consultant, 34, has repeatedly asked to be cleared.

Meanwhile the board of directors of the £1.2million Find Madeleine fund met yesterday in Leicester.

They discussed the fund's finances but did not consider whether to renew the £50,000-a-month contract of the private detective agency Metodo 3 when it expires next month.

The fund currently has £540,000 in its coffers and is expected to run dry by summer, Mr Mitchell said.

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Add your comment Comments (54)

54 people have commented on this story so far. Tell us what you think below.

'Detectives in the Algarve are said to be furious over Mr Ribeiro's comments as they believe there is enough evidence to charge Kate McCann with involvement in her daughter's death, it was reported.'

There is not an iota of evidence against Mrs McCann and everything fed by detectives to the Portuguese press has been, at best, conjecture and, at worst, lies.

- Philip Skalla, London, England

When will this saga end?

- Lala, UK

The police were hasty? The word 'hasty' has caused the McCanns so much grief and possibly even halted the investigation and public awareness for Madeleine. The reason this case may never be solved through lack of evidence lies at the door of the Portuguese Police from the beginning when they failed to seal off the potential crime scene. Then, as if that wasn't enough, they make the McCanns arguidos. They should be sued for negligence.

- Jan Moore, Woodford Green

I did not read any Portuguese newspaper stating that the parents are to be cleared or the case closed. Another spin from the team, I believe.

- Jorge Campos, Lisbon, Portugal

About time this one was put to rest.

- Bill, Ipswich

Keystone status well and truly earned!

- Trend, Luton, UK

Poor Madeleine. RIP my little one.

- Helen, London

Lala, the "saga" will never end for the McCanns. They face a life sentence of uncertainty, guilt, grief and regret.

- Helene, France

My heart goes out to the McCanns. It's cruel enough to have lost their precious daughter but it becomes surreal when you are accused of her disappearence. I just hope that somehow they'll find peace in their hearts and manage to live their lives as normally as possible for the sake of their twins. And I also hope that the evil person who took Maddie will burn in hell for ever.

- Mila, Brussels

Alipio Ribeiro admitted his officers had been "hasty" in making Gerry and Kate McCann official suspects in their daughter's disappearance.

Hardly team McCann spin, he either said it or he didn't.

This is more an admission of Portuguese police incompetence then 'spin'.

- Russell, London

God bless sweet little Madeleine, the only innocent one in all of this.

- Shelley, Ripon, North Yorkshire

We hope that Madeleine is still safe and that she will be safely returned to her parents.

- Tasha And Heather, Bolton

If the Portuguese believe that political pressure has caused the case against the McCanns to be dropped they should answer the following: who do the McCann's know? Who has exerted this pressure and upon whom? What sort of pressure has been brought to bear? Why should anyone in Britain want to pressurise the Portuguese? It's just an excuse for their inefficiency. If the PJ have got evidence, they should make an arrest and not just torment people. It's not time to archive this case; it's time to do a proper investigation. The PJ thought they could pin it on an innocent mother, as they have in the past. This time they were wrong. It's time the PJ were investigated. They obviously don't care about child abduction. Hush it up and protect the tourist industry. It doesn't happen here. It's the parents. No-one will believe them anymore. Maybe the next child will get a fair deal.

- Corin, Wolverhampton

"When will this saga end?

- Lala, UK"


Quite soon by the sound of it !

- Jo, London

Give it up now, it's hopeless. This could go on and on.
It is one of the unsolved cases.
Let us hope that parents in the future will learn from this then Maddy's passing will not have been for nothing.


- J.Risbridger, Spalding, Lincs

More spin good only for simple minds. When are Kate and Gerry going to answer the police questions?

- Anon, UK

Lala, how would you feel if people were calling your child's disapearance a 'saga'? You obviously have no understanding of a parents' love for their children. Whatever you think of the case it does not change the fact that an innocent little girl is missing. To all the decent people out there, please don't forget about Madeleine.

- Vicki, UK

If the Portuguese police shelve the case and they clear the McCanns of their arguidos status that's fine.
The fact is that Madeleine is still missing and they will never be cleared in the eyes of the public. Deep down they will always regret what happened to their little girl.

- George, London, UK

If the police had enough evidence to charge Kate McCann why have they not done so? They have never had anything of real value because of their own stupid mistakes. Instead of using the press to prepare the public for the removal of any suspicion they should just come clean and admit their faults. They are putting the McCanns under a lifetime of suspicion, just to clear their own names and protect themselves. This has nothing to do with pressure from the UK it's called damage limitation.

- Cath, Coventry

Who says Kate and Gerry's official suspect status will be lifted? This is wishful thinking from the McCann team. What Ribeiro is on about is the difficulty in getting Kate and Gerry to answer the police questions. It was "hasty" letting them know they are suspects, for they left Portugal immediately after that and now the Portuguese police is facing an uphill struggle to get Kate and Gerry to answer their questions in the UK.

- Mc, UK

Since Madeleine went missing it has been very difficult to tell what is genuine, what is speculation and what is a downright lie. Also, I think blaming the Portuguese police for not sealing off the apartment is a little unfair - the McCanns let 25 people in and out of that apartment before the police had arrived, so much damage had already been done. Madeleine deserves so much better than this. I hope some kind of closure can be brought to this case, for Madeleine's sake.

- Jw, Hants, UK

More spin! But I should like to know what contacts and influence the McCanns had. Not every British subject suspected of crimes abroad gets supportive messages from the Prime Minister and a government spin-doctor seconded so that he can act as a mouthpiece. And is there a reason why the Portuguese police haven't been allowed to put through the British police the questions that Kate and Gerry McCann and their friends haven't answered? Was there a reason why the media got so deeply involved so quickly? How many other poeple would have a family member able to pick up the phone to a major TV network and get it involved?

- Jan, Swansea, UK

Philip Skalla, you are obviously privy to all the evidence - or lack of it - according to you.

- Max Davies, Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire

The McCanns should feel guilty if they hadn't left the kids on their own in the first place - no one would have been able to kidnap her or they could have taken advantage of the FREE babysitting service - why didn't they?

If this had been a single mother for example and the exact same thing happened I doubt she would still have custody of her other two children as she would have been an unfit parent, we wouldn't have heard a thing about the disappearance.

Does anyone know what happened to the little girl that disappeared around a month ago very near to where Maddie was kidnapped? I've seen an article on the front of ONE paper ONCE the next day the McCanns were back on the cover. Why are the McCanns getting so much press? What about the thousands of children that disappear all over the world?

- L, UK

Mc - where in this article did it mention that this statement originated from the 'McCann team'? It's the usual fabrication of blame from the anti-McCann team.

- Paul, Newcastle

In reply to Mc, UK I would like to ask you and all others who complain about the McCans not answering the questions. I'm sure they would answer the questions from the Portuguese Detectives but the problem is that the Appeal Letters (or Cartas Rogatorias) are still in Portugal and they have never arrived in Britain. Portuguese bureaucracy is one of the worst in the world in case you don't know. From what I understand these appeal letters are letters asking the authorities in the UK to allow them to question the McCanns (this is done by law). If these appeal letters have not arrived here yet how can the McCanns answer the questions? I hope I have been clear in what I have to say and stop people saying things without knowlege of the matter before they speak.

- Maryann Woods, London - UK

So how the hell can they say this case will never be solved? Do they know where she is or even what happened to her? Do they know exactly where her body is for them to say she definetly died? I still think somebody in the Portugese police has not just a finger but a whole hand in the pie.

- Amanda, Boksburg

No! They can't give up hope of finding her! Keep searching!

- Nikki, UK

I've just read the original Diario de Noticias article as I am fed up of reading the Clarence Mitchell version of everything. Here are some bits from the original that have been conveniently missed.

The PJ totally dismiss the theory of an abductor.

The evidence from the British cadaver dogs is damning.

If the case is dropped then it will be seen as 100% because of political pressure from the British government.

If today is a good day for Kate and Gerry than it is a very bad day for justice.

- Polly, Ilkley

George in London talk about state the obvious. Of course they will be haunted by the loss of their daughter but I for one have NEVER blamed them for her disappearance. But for the grace of god go I and all that. Have some compassion.

- Serena, UK

Sadly, I think George in London says it all. The McCanns have been convicted in the court of public opinion.

- Mary, Dublin, Ireland

Lala, you obviously don't have any children or else you would understand or try and understand how it might feel to lose one of your beloved children. The Portuguese police have done a shocking job and they are a complete disgrace! You should keep quiet if you have nothing nice to say.

- Sandy Gordon, Cape Town

Philip Skalla, London: what infomation are you privvy to in order to make this claim?

- Claire, Essex

Don't the cadaver dogs count any more?

- Tony Quinlan, Essex

There are so many questions that the parents refused to answer. Naturally, this makes it impossible for the case to be solved. The McCanns are educated people with top drawer advisers and they know that their refusal to answer questions frustrates the police and makes it impossible for this case ever to be solved.

- Janet, London

Anon, UK - 'more spin for simple minds'. Has your superior intellect been buying into the 'spin' produced by Portuguese tabloids through all of this?

- Paul, Newcastle

If that is true, it's an absolute disgrace. Enough said!

- Debbie, Braunfels, Germany

Team McCann wins. Just a pity about the little girl - Madeleine. Hope Team McCann sleep well now they are clear.

- Keith, Belfast

Polly of Ilkely maintains "the evidence from British cadaver dogs is damning". If that is the case, why haven't the McCanns been charged? This "evidence" has been condemned as inconclusive and inadmissable by more than one forensic expert. I personally agree with Amanda as I have always been suspicious of the PJ's pathetic excuse for an investigation and their frankly absurd theories. Finding Madeleine and the truth seems to be bottom priority. My heart bleeds for that poor child.

- Jo, Shropshire

I really don't know how anybody could blame the PJ for Maddie's disappearance. The fault and blame clearly lies with the McCanns who were negligent in leaving their kids unattended while they went out on the booze with their mates. There is nobody else to blame but themselves.

- Angus, Bristol

There is absolutely nothing to support the supposition that the PJ are dropping the case against the McCanns. How can the case be dropped before they know exactly what happened on 2nd and 3rd May? It cannot be.

- Mary, Manchester

I pray each day that the investigators will uncover something and get this wee lass back to her parents and end the living hell for the whole family - it's no good passing blame. Action is what's called for now.

- Elizabeth Lacey, Torquay Devon

You're right Lala.

- Daveb, London

I agree with Polly from Ilkley. This story is more blatant spin. People's words are being rehashed to suit the purpose of the person who is doing this. Maybe because the rogatory letters are being re-sent?

- Verity, South England

"If the Portuguese police shelve the case and they clear the McCanns of their arguidos status that's fine. The fact is that Madeleine is still missing and they will never be cleared in the eyes of the public. Deep down they will always regret what happened to their little girl.

- George, London, UK"

George, you make my blood boil. Your last sentence says how much you don't know. As the mother of a son who is dead, there is no "deep down" to it. Their loss will always be foremost in their hearts and minds, and it sounds like they will never know for sure what happened to their little girl on that night. For all of you people who harp upon "they left her alone", please save it.

- Kathy, Missouri, USA

"Don't the cadaver dogs count any more?

- Tony Quinlan, Essex"

Yes! Which is why this is nonsense.

- Anna, London

Unanswered questions and the infallibility of 'cadaver' dogs - whipping sticks generated by Portuguese press and never factually substantiated by the authorities.

- Paul, Newcastle

Keith, Belfast... Team McCann are the only people doing something about trying to find Madeleine. They will never sleep well until they have found her. You obviously don't have children.

- Sandy Gordon, Cape Town, SA

It is outrageous that the McCanns were ever made suspects. It is the likes of the vile people who leave nasty comments on-line who have made their situation so much worse. For goodness sake how can anyone in their right mind think Kate and Gerry did anything to harm little Maddy. I am sure they will never give up looking for their precious little girl and I hope all the cranks will go away and leave them alone to continue their search in whatever way they want. God bless little Madeleine.

- Clare, Birmingham

The Portugese police were to quick to judge, without hard facts or a motive. They accused the parents in order to take the pressure off themselves.

- Jax, Mumbai, India

Good news if this is true, but it is a terrible injustice that they are leaving the parent's under suspicion at the same time, rather than admitting that they were wrong.

- M, Bedford

"Team McCann wins" - what a throughly disgusting and ignorant remark, Keith of Belfast.

- Jo, Shropshire

'Team McCann wins' - what sort of mentality is it that types comment like this?

- Paul, Newcastle

Why has there been so much political pressure from the UK? Why did Gordon Brown get involved? Why did a Gordon Brown 'spin doctor' become the McCann's spokesman?

- Janet, Glasgow

Cláudia said...

Hey, hun.
The DE got it so wrong that they ralised they had to delete the article! That's a first! lolol
Beijinhos!

leigh3 said...

Hi All,
I think Viv has got this one right: pulled stories mean the media lawyers are in action for a very good reason, and so are the DE moderators, I think. Some kind posters will get posts removed under the discretion of the DE, but look what happened previously without the active intervention of moderators: thugs abused free speech. Thugs must be given a very much shorter lead, in my opinion.
Sincere posters have been goaded into intemperate language; something they never used when first posting on the DE site. Now, in order to get rid of the thugs, everyone will be subject to this new moderator regime of 'removed...at our discretion' for breaching terms and conditions. It's vague, but it leaves the thugs with no room for manoeuvre, and the sincere posters with some protection, imho.
Evolution of the world weird web. Not an easy thing to do, it seems to me.
Anyway, what's it matter if free exchange of information does pursue Justice for Madeleine, and every child, however long it takes?
I expect adult egos can take a few knocks, and pursue the bigger issue, yes?
xo

Irina said...

Hello Viv and everybody.
What striking news!
Probably letters got to the right person. Or they came to know the new evidence from FSS.

Whatever it is, for many of us the guilt of parents proved some time ago, but what is encouraging is that the process of bringing responsible to justice is speeding up. Madeleine waited long time.

As to the pros, they discredited themselves and the cause so, that only their anonymity will save them from people's disgust. Though,
they might believe in anonymity, but may be some of us know the ways of identification. Never underestimate Russian mind.

Thank you Viv for your effort and energy.

I have send e-mail to Home Office asking who is responsible for the regatory letters in McCann's case. Hope to get some answer tomorrow.

docmac said...

Where is everyone? Has this blog been frozen by Clarrie the Cross-dresser?

I have an idea that someone has had a word in the ear of the DX editor telling him of an imminent development in the case. I hope so, anyway. Come on PJ, get on your way!

I see people are chatting on the previous article:

http://www.express.co.uk/comments/viewall/33750

Well, goodnight to all of you that are NOT here :-)

00:08 CAT

leigh3 said...

Irina!
No one should underestimate the Russian mind,as you rightly say, but also: fortitude, and courage...against all odds. Goodnight, true friend of children. See you sometime.
Leigh3

leigh3 said...

Night Doc.
'Someone' has had more than a few words :-). Bet on it.
By the way, have a great hol. My girl is v excited about trip to S.A. this coming week; she's only allowed to go because she's with the 'someones'...
See you next time.
Leigh3

Dylan said...

Hi Viv,

I've just had a mo to pop back but wish i hadn't. Not because of your blog but because of the utterly, utterly heartless comparison with Jamie Bulger. It was a shockingly grotesque fate that befell him at the hands of mere babes themselves.

Jamie's poor, bereft mother, when she was finally able to speak out, gave an interview saying she was living on coffee and cigarettes as she couldn't eat or take sustainance. Her life was ruined, her world fell apart. She suffered in silence. Her marriage fell to pieces and she kept her dignity and her grief to herself.
The poor woman had to go through the release of one of the murderers recently as he was a juvenile when convicted. He has now been afforded state protection and anonynimity.

Mandz has stooped to her lowest. How dare she bring up Jamie's mum. All she did was take her son to a shopping mall and take her eyes off of him for a few seconds. If we all lived in such fear of minute lapses of parentage, we would never leave the house with our children.

How dare Mandz soil the name of this good woman and all she has had to bear. I have only thought of Mandz as a bit of an idiot up til now but she has overstepped the mark in an unforgiveable way.

dolores said...

Viv, and friends
Unbelievable dross 10.03 post by RP /CM. on DE a must read, unbelievable tripe.

leigh3 said...

Hello Dylan,
I'm off now, but just read your post, and sympathise with what you are saying. Unfortunately, some people know no bounds in defence of their narrow self-interest, and are callous towards the feelings of others who think beyond self-interest, and get upset over the suffering of their fellow human beings. The DE site has seen posters compare the negligent McCanns to the parents of Holly and Jessica, the girls killed in Soham; compared now to poor lil Jamie Bulger.
The thugs on the DE don't give a damn about anything so long as they clear the McCanns. Don't give a damn how they use and abuse the names of ordinary parents who DID NOT leave infants alone, night after night as the McCanns did, and excuse as 'within the bounds of responsible parents'.
Poor Jamie's Mum. Poor parents of Holly, Jessica, Sarah...and a boy I remember well and his mother whose life was ruined: Lavinia Tildsley and her boy Mark. She was a cleaner. Only the police, the lawyers, the media saw her grief at first hand. It was harrowing. Nuff said.
Justice for Madeleine, and every missing or abused child.
God bless you and yours. See you sometime.

Irina said...

Good night Leigh and Doc, this is my browsing time though.
After children and pets taken care of and asleep.
Looked through the remaining DX forum, all same neglect debate.
My conviction that neglect and long going is obvious, but the case is about the death of the child in which parents directly involved. And no matter how much spin, misinterpreted interviews, sightings, drawings & so on is poured through the media, the fact that there was a dead body of Madeleine in the flat, body or materials in contact with it in the car, materials found by the barn this does not go away.
Some posters on DE, though blaming McCanns in neglect afraid to raise the core issue of the case, which is murder/manslaughter.

felicity said...

Hiya all!

I became a little engrossed looking at the DE and missed you all on here including dear Doc - hope you all still around!

There are two legal issues it seems to me the DE faced

1. They categorically stated the McCanns are to be cleared

2. The repulsive posts from Rosie and Co actually naming the Bulgers etc and likening her to the McCanns which could well have given the Bulgers and others a cause of action against Rosie and the DE. On thinking it through I think this was probably the overwhelming reason this got pulled! Rosie disappeared for a while and is now very chastened and non-committal..vile woman!

Viv x

Just going to have a good read through now and will comment more

leigh3 said...

Yes, Irina. I see what you are saying, but this case will take more time yet to unravel, in due course, in my humble opinion...and ya know what I'm like: I don't like humble when it comes to unmasking liars!

See you next time.

felicity said...

Irina

As ever I think you are spot on- neglect is not the issue here - it is this that Gerry has played on to cover up manslaughter/murder - that is the real issue and that is why none of them have been prosecuted for neglect. Madeleine was already dead before they could have neglected her that night. She must have been. The dogs could not have smelt a oorpse if Maddie hd not been dead in that apartment for a minimum of 2 hours i.e, she must have deen dead before 8 pm - before there was any "neglect". They are quite happy to admit a lesser offence. The reasons for their frank admission are more than obvious!

Viv x

felicity said...

Hey Leigh - we like you for our intellect and frank opinions - not for being humble. They may all be too terrified on the DE to have their say and so witter on about grammar schools or any other innocuous subject but on here let's stick to the point.

Still trying to read back !

Viv x

Dylan said...

Thank you L3.

Sleep well and catch you again soon.

Dyl x

felicity said...

Dolores

Please cut and paste Rosie's 10.03 dross when the PJ get here I want her to hand her /his head in shame!

Vivx

Anonymous said...

Night Viv.
See you next time. Ace copy from you, again, chica.

felicity said...

Clauida/Leigh/Doc

Oh yes we saw some extreme moderation tonight and I think the lawyers have been helping Nicki out tonight. I gather from what others have said of their conversations with her/others similar on the phone she is not too well versed and "needed to go and take some dictation" got a feeling she will be doing a lot of that right now.

The Daily Mail's article was more carefully worded - it did not, in clear terms say the McCanns were going to be declared innocent. The DE screwed up and yes they must clamp down on Rosie /The Pink Shirted One/ Gerry / The school maam aunt or whoever it is!

I also note the bland new comment that is being placed on removed posts now. One size fits all and lawyers like it bland - dont quote me!

Viv x \

felicity said...

Night Leigh and thanks for your very interesting comments again.

Also you Doc and shucks I missed you again!! Have a fantastic time tomorrow x

com amor
viv x

Dylan said...

Irina,

Glad you are still here. I'll be around for a short while before it's time for me to tuck myself up in bed.

It's been a very strange day. I think it may be nothing more that what vv suggests which is that the DE was pulled because of the Jamie Bulger remarks. That's the most tastless thing i have heard yet & i'm truly offended.

In case you are not familiar with that, Jamie's mother took him to a shopping mall. Jamie disappeared when she took her eyes off of him for a few moments. CCTV caught two young boys taking the poor, trusting chid away. He was only 2 years old. They took him to a railway track and beat him to death. I think the eldest was only twelve years old. It was an horrifying thing. I was pregnant with my son at the time which means that Jamie would now be nearly eighteen years old if he were still alive. A potential life that will never be recognised now. :( As a result of this murder, i have never let my children stray out of my line of sight when out shopping. I constantly tell elly, as i did with my older two, "come back and don't wander off where I can't see you!" I get some very funny looks from people as she's only gone around the other side of a shop shelf, but i don't care what other people think of me. At least I know that elly is always coming home safe with me!

Holly and Jessica case was a more recent tragedy. There was absolutely nothing her parents did wrong in respect of what happened to them. If anyone was culpable, it was the police who let an offender slip through the net into a school where he gained a position of trust with the children. Ultimately, of course, it is the evil man, Huntley who is the guilty party and Maxine Carr who covered for him. this is where the similarity ends with the McCann case.

Your Russian mind is indeed most perceptive, and very welcome it is too.

Dyl x

felicity said...

In legal terms there is a big difference between "shelving the investigation" - not that this has been said and "clearing them". To shelve could see the McCanns spending the rest of their lives as suspects. To clear would be like a dream come true for them and beyond reality dear Clarence a simply not spinnable - false, utterly false. It is not an ambiguous comment that the press can get away with like "shelving".

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Dyl

That was two very good and succict descriptions of the cases and I have to say caused me to smart with tears. Have these poor parents not suffered enough without this terrible insult? Those comments from Mandz and ~Rosie are the most offensive yet. If the DE was a decent newspaper they would surely ban them now but no doubt they will linger on. I just pray we are now going to see such decisive moves they may shut up.

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
Ihave been trying over the weeks to cut and paste,and been tearing my hair out with it,I have followed instructios but can'get it right.
Do they have a cut and paste for dummies? :)
Grrrr

felicity said...

Dolores

I will go and find it, note what I do and then try to describe it to you:=)

Give me couple a mins

luv
viv x

guerra said...

The only people who know what evidence exists against this couple are the Portuguese Police,(PJ). I can only speculate on the innocence or guilt of this couple based on their actions and statements they have made. If you are innocent you cooperate with the Police this couple has not and never has. They did not answer the questions posed to them by the PJ. They were allowed to leave the country some say because of political pressure from Britain. They did promise to return for further questioning but when they arrived in England the first thing they did was hire a lawyer who was successful in preventing the extradition of the Chilean dictator Pinochet to Spain. So now in order for the PJ to question the couple they have to send rogatory letters through diplomatic channels. Portugal used Eurojust to send the letters to England believing it would speed up the process, but the Home Office in England sent them back because they want them to be sent directly through diplomatic channels in Portugal. Correio da Manha a Portuguese paper has reported that the letters were resent to England, so once again the PJ await.

Believe it or not the Portuguese Police have a good reputation in Europe, but because of the concerted effort by the British Press to discredit Portugal and the PJ most English readers get the impression that the PJ are incompetent idiots. I once read in the Portuguese papers how the PJ investigated over 300 leads with regards to the abduction theory in Portugal alone. A day later I read in the British Press that the incompetent drunk lead detective Amaral ignored 300 leads. Of course there are the articles in the British Press that give the impression that in certain areas of Portugal they are selling babies on street corners. Also, in an attempt to discredit any DNA evidence that may exist the British Press reported that cigarette ash contaminated DNA samples. I could go on and on, but why bother it’s all rubbish. To limit this commentary I won’t even go into all the outright lies and contradictory statements made by the couple.

It amazes me how people still claim that the PJ tried to frame the McCanns to save their reputations. There are hundreds of missing children cases all over the world that have not been solved, and the reputations of other nations police have not suffered. If the PJ were corrupt wouldn’t it be easier just to frame Mr. Murat, the first Arguido in this case, a British citizen who has had no support from his government?

If the McCanns really wanted to find their daughter why would they hire a shady detective agency like Metedo3? This agency had no experience in finding a missing person and has been in trouble with authorities in Spain in the past. Why pay such an organization the absurd amount of 50,000 pounds a month? By the way Metodo3 claims they are only getting 10,000. Why continue to pay detectives who make claims such as “they know who the abductor is, they know where the girls is and they will have her back before the end of the week”?

No one in Portugal has said that the case will be closed. Mr. Alipio Ribeiro’s comments are open to interpretation; therefore some in Portugal have speculated that this is Mr. Ribeiro’s way of preparing the Portuguese people for the eventual archive of the case. His comments could also be interpreted that if the McCanns were not made Arguidos that early in the investigation they would have not fled and the investigation would not have been hindered as much. In following this case I have concluded that there really isn’t a free press in Britain and that both Portugal and Britain have corrupt elements in their governments. So the case being archived or the case continuing would really not be a surprise to me either way.

felicity said...

OK Dolores ready for your lesson:

Move to the top of the bit you want to copy with your mouse.

Holding the left hand side of your mouse down move over the area to be copied - as you scroll through this area will turn blue.

Loose the left side of your mouse and click on the right side - a menu will come up - click on copy.

Move to where you want to paste it to. Click on right side of mouse again and this time hit paste.

Hope that explains but I usually confuse people even more !

"more than one way to skin a cat"
....she makes me feel phsically sick!

Luv Viv x

TINKS
07.02.08, 10:03pm

HIYA ROSIEPOPS
07.02.08, 9:46pm

Hope you are well. Doesn't matter what spin they try and put on it, it was said and that cannot be denied. For what reason did he give a radio interview anyway, do you know.

• Posted by: Tinkerbell43 • Report Comment
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No it doesn't matter what spin they put on it or what they do to try and mute people, it will not work and there is more than one way to skin a cat! Have no fear.

Alipio Ribeiro said what he said and it is interesting to see that he has not retracted his statement, *this is very telling!*

He apologised to his boss, bit his boss hasn't sacked him and he has not resigned, why?

1) because he was meant to say these things, this is in preparation for the McCann's arguido status being dropped and of course the PJ minions would not know this, they will only be told what they need to know, information like this would be on a need to know basis.

2) He has obviously successfully kept his job.

3) Could actually be that the political side of the PJ are now going to force the announcement that Madeleine was abducted, I don't know, but I do know politicians and this is what they do, it is how they work and where they come from has no bearing on it.

4) I believe he gave the interview as part of the plan to announce what he did, after all how many interviews as he actually give? not that many!

• Posted by: Rosiepops

Dylan said...

Sorry viv,
I didn't mean to upset you. Sometimes i just open my mouth and stick my big foot in it. My memories of what happened to Jamie are sad enough without the likes of Mandz belittling it and drawing a parallel with Gruesome Twosome. Mandz has really upset me and i just wanted Irina to know just how near the mark (55?) her cruel comments were. If i weren't such a weak sop, i'd tell her what i think of her. But then i don't resort to such childish tactics.

dylx

felicity said...

Hey Dillie

I am OK! I think that many people who feel so strongly that they want to contribute to blogs like this are people with an abundance of empathy. So when we think of how those parents must have suffered or how little children must have suffered we do get upset. I am soppy! Those who support the parents on the other hand are more like Gerry McCann - they can write such horrible stuff because they do not have the ability to stand in someone else's shoes. It simply does not occur to them how repulsive they are. I dont care if thinking of real suffering brings tears to my eyes. I would not want to change! As you may know, prior to having to give up work, I worked as a probation officer. When hearing stories from offenders it was sometimes difficult to fight back the tears. Most of the heroin users I met had the most horrifying childhood. That is why they like heroin - "pure euphoria blocks out all my thoughts and just makes me feel better". Then after a few weeks or months they become painfully addicted - it is very sad. True, I really do not like abusive parents who do this to children so they grow up with such terrible affliction. We need to make people understand just how much they can damage their children... permanently.

Luv Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
Thanks for the lesson, I will play with it in the morning and let you know the results.
xx

Dyl
I know and respect how you feel about what Mad Mandz said, she is an insensitive despicable thoughtless person.
It upset me also I hope his dear mother never reads this forum.
xx

Guerra
That was a very informative post, thank you for an inside aspect to this case,it is appreciated.

dolores said...

Dyl
I apolgise I mean never reads DE forum....sorry Viv.

Dylan said...

Guerra, welcome! (don't mean to overstep my guest status, viv!)

You make many interesting points. Yes they did say they would return for questioning, but they didn't. Kate did say she would take a lie-detector test, but when offered she refused on the grounds that it wouldn't hold up in court as evidence. Strange that she didn't take it just for the public to clear their precious name!
They did say that they would stay in Portugal for as long as until Maddie came back, but left as soon as they were made arguidos.
They said they would help the PJ to find their daughter, yet refused to answer several questions.

It has become apparent that the only reason AR mentioned that they were hasty (and yes, tex mex, i am sure that the portuguese have a synonym for hasty), is that it would have ensured, the Mcs, as witnesses, would have had to have answered all of the questions put to them. As a result, since they have been made argiudos, they can rightfully claim thier right to remain silent.

It must be extremely frustrating to the pj right now that they can't insist and enforce these answers and also that they have so much red tape to cut through just to requestion them.

Odd that DE & DM have taken such strange aspect on this latest.

dyl x

felicity said...

Guerra

What a great post - you clearly have excellant insight into this case and it is a huge comfort to increasingly learn just how many well informed people there are about!

Great to read and welcome to the forum. I really hope you will regularly let us have the benefit of your thoughts and careful analysis.

Thanks!
Viv x \

Dylan said...

Hi Delores,

Good luck with your cutting and pasting!

Viv, what you say is very true. I can't watch a soppy film or listen to moving music without crying!

One of the hardest things to explain to children is when you are crying with joy, don't you think?

It goes something like: mummy why are crying?

Because I'm so happy!

Child - eh??? How does that work then??

Still, i'd rather be a soppy moo than a hard assed, pink-blobbed, fat, twit!

Really must go to bed now.

Love to you all, sleep well.

Dyl x

felicity said...

Nite Nite Dyl

I have known some really nice men who get upset at soppy films - it is not just a woman thing is it!

Luv Viv x

dolot said...

Dyl
Bless you and yours and have pleasant dreams.
xx

dolores said...

Viv I am getting tired can't even spell my own nbame...lol
God bless you cara=dear nite.
xx

felicity said...

Nite Dolores

Happy copy and pasting tomorrow but if at first you dont succeed...come and let me know!

Sleep well!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

I am always interested in the topics they dwell on to specifically deny. These are the ones that are worrying them and clearly add credence to the theory when they get such specific attention. The PJ asked fishermen to look out for black bin bags and also sought expert advice on tides etc. I am afraid I have always thought that if Gerry is so convinced the body is not to be found then this is where it would be. If parents have the heart to kill their child and the sort of brute determination to get away with it that we have seen, then, I am afraid they have the heart to put her little body into a weighted bag, stand on a cliff and hurl it in. Not Kate.. I am sure but Gerry and his undertaker friend.

Viv x


HELENM
08.02.08, 12:01am


The article is still in the telegraph and the Mail, I think this is an issue more to do with the Express and its sister paper the Star.

These articles also state that the PJ apparently think that the McCann's somehow dumped Madeleine's body at sea. I think this idea is so utter preposterous and I do not think the PJ think this at all and have no idea where it comes from.This theory it is so full of holes it is ridiculous.

• Posted by: Rosiepops

felicity said...

..It took Kate and GErry 15 minutes to jog up to the top of the hill he wrote, I think - were they checking something out? Were they looking for Madeleine.......

docmac said...

Hi Viv

Just got up for a pee and see you are about. You know that old story about running a tap to make a child pee? I've got a 500 million litre per hour tap giving me that urge all night. Flying out at 8.30 CAT, so got to get back to bed.

See you in a couple of days.

Nite x

docmac said...

Sorry 500 million litresper minute.

Nite again.

Anonymous said...

Mike, the3arguidos.net are now taking donations. A group of us are reporting them here:

www.taxevasionhotline.co.uk

Can we count on your support?

They are profiting from Maddy's dissapearance just like the McCanns!

SG http://www.truthformadeleine.com/forum/default.asp

felicity said...

Doc hiya

This post of our Claudia's just seriously tickled me:

LIE ALERT, EVERYBODY
07.02.08, 11:48pm

last week the Portuguese Attorney General admitted the letters had never been sent.

• Posted by: Rosiepops • Report Comment

Just to let you know that this never happened. The Portuguese Attorney General DID NOT this. Unless he called that poster mobile phone and gave her the news personally. Here in Portugal, nothing like that was heard. In fact, he said that the request letters were sent back. Wouldn't surprise me if the British press did not report this this way, though.



• Posted by: Claudia79


Have a great time tomorrow and enjoy the rush ont he plane too :-)

Luv y a
Viv x

felicity said...

Dooooooooooc


..is there anybody OUT there?

felicity said...

oi! Meu Amigo! Get up for another pee I wanna talk to ya!

felicity said...

right I am sulking now - you are getting like the scarlet flicking pimpernel

nite
luv viv x

felicity said...

This vile old ....just does not know when to quite does she? So I suppose her mentality does not stretch to weighting the body! Funny that doo doo expression was used by Maudlin7 a few days ago ..always did think she was another of Rosie's fantasy characters like HelenM that she created to agree with herself SICK SICK SICK but as I mentioned above obviously the body in the water is the one that is worrying them - the PJs I think have a very good idea of just where he threw it from mobile phone triangulation. Tough luck Gerry, hopeless liar, hopeless aspirational millionaire, hopeless criminal, hopeless father..go to jail do not pass go do not collect £200 or a couple of million or whatever! Mr Monopoly Man! As the PJ the hypothesis that Rosie actually is Gerry builds in credibility for me! Quite definitely worried enough, quite definitely sick enough, quite definitel persistent enough! The article getting pulled earlier caused a half hour re-think but Rosie is now fully back in the driving seat and is stil listed as a man!

Vivx


OH SO GERRY
07.02.08, 11:30pm


just toddled off to the sea with his dead daughter concealed inside a bag and threw her in, trusting to luck that the tide did not wash her back up?

How did he do this anyway? Where did he hide her for 25 days? Must have been a really good hiding place because hundreds of people failed to find her, in which case why on earth risk detection returning to her, putting her in a bag and carting her off to the sea/lake and throwing her in there, all the while risking getting caught because by then the McCann's had the world and his brother on their shoulders. Not too mention the very real fact that the body would somehow break fee and come to the surface and be washed up on the beach or the banks of the river?

If this is all the PJ can come up with to support their theory no wonder they are in the doo doo.

Where are the letters by the way? Jaqui Smith still getting the blame for them not arriving? I see the PJ have come up with another story to still try and blame the UK for the Portuguese Attorney General's failure to send these letters!


• Posted by: Rosiepops

felicity said...

Aside from the above, just how desperate does this Rosiepops sound? Telling us to forget what both the British and Portuguese papers say - this person just wants everyone to shut up and convince himself it is all going to be alright -knowing full well it is not.

Denial, minimisation, blaming others. Classic behaviour of a seriously worried criminal about to be undone. The repeated phrases, the capital letters for NOT, the attempt at self-reassurance "no worries". More capitals with stars either side..Telling us officials in Britain and Portugal deny it or refuse to deny denying it.. This person is desperately worried and feels everything is against them in Britain and Portugal - the press, public sympathy, officialdom all slipping from his control...desperately worried about the arrival of the rogatory letters which he repeatedly attempts to deny to himself and to us. If this is not Gerry McCann it is someone very close to him IMO.

I note the Daily Express also pulled the same article claiming the McCanns will be declared innocent in their sister paper, the Daily Star. This person, tries to reassure in another post - well the articles are still on the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail but they are not. The message in those two papers is very different suggesting "shelving" not clearing! I believe the Daily Express were advised to pull these articles and the PJ will be here any day now, if they are not already here and will spring the surprise on the McCanns and their friends, just like last time. A well known and legitimate tactic to cause disorientation, fear, panic and lack of time to calm down and prepare. What they deserve..
Viv x

DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE PAPERS, PORTUGUESE OR BRITISH
Published: Friday February 8,2008 by Rosiepops

08.02.08, 12:55am


The Portuguese Attorney General has NOT denied NOT sending the letters.

Forget Eurojust, forget the Portuguese and British press.

The Portuguese Attorney General has NOT denied NOT sending the letters.

And the PJ have also admitted they were wrong.

What is the problem?

No worries, the letters are still NOT here in the UK, so where are they this time?What excuse now? They accidentally got diverted to Mars?


• Posted by: Rosiepops • Report Comment
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Especially for you drval.

The Home Office took the unusual step of ***FORMALLY DENYING*** it had been sent the papers.

Did you understand that DrVal?

The British Home Office has *Formally Denied* it had been sent the papers.

Then in a humiliating public climbdown, the Attorney General's office in Lisbon was forced to admit that it had not yet sent them to Whitehall.

A spokeswoman said: "The letters of appeal will be sent via the Attorney General, who will oversee their delivery."

felicity said...

and here is the post just before those two - hysteria! This just cannot be some poster on the Daily Express who supports the McCanns! This is the McCanns..Remember that frequest remark from Rosie ..we are just trying to defend ourselves! Bizarre...
Viv x
why the Portuguese Attorney general has not denied not sending the letters
Published: Friday February 8,2008 by Rosiepops

well I don't even want to get into that!

but he hasn't sent them.

i believe he hasn't sent them, still hasn't sent them and probably will not even send them.

Perhaps there is insufficient evidence to grant permission to send them and for the PJ to come to the UK to question the friends?

Would certainly make sense in the light of what Alipio Ribeiro has said, which has apparently been backed by his boss and also Carlos Anjos has been saying that the PJ have better things to do than search for Madeleine (with respect of course, but this is what he has said).

Three top people in Portugal appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet and the rogatory letters NOT leaving the Attorney General's office?

face it, something is happening here and it looks like the McCann's are about to be cleared and the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance shelved.

It could not have any other outcome as obviously the PJ have not got the evidence to charge the McCann's, after all if they haven't now, then they re unlikely to gain anything else unless Madeleine is found.

felicity said...

ANON; PLEASE NOTE

On considering this matter both of these site have promoted freeedom of speech to discuss the issues surrounding the Madeleine case and have provided valuable information to the public. On that basis I do not support any attempt to attack or undermine them. I was rather disgusted to note one of your links goes to the Inland Revenue to inform of them. What of Clarence Mitchell's suggestion that the public send money in envelopes to the McCanns - are you reporting this to the Inland Revenue. I WILL NOT ALLOW THIS SITE TO BE USED BY CLARENCE MITCHELL IN ANY ATTEMPT TO SHUT DOWN OR HARM OTHER SITES. IF YOU POST SUCH COMMENTS AGAIN THEY WILL BE REMOVED.

VIV X

Anonymous said...
Mike, the3arguidos.net are now taking donations. A group of us are reporting them here:

www.taxevasionhotline.co.uk

Can we count on your support?

They are profiting from Maddy's dissapearance just like the McCanns!

SG http://www.truthformadeleine.com/forum/default.asp

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Good point maybe somebody should use that link to report the Mccanns who receive money in brown envelopes on a daily basis according to their PR man Clarence.
I hope they are declaring this to the Inland Revenue or HMRC as it is known as now. Lizzy 8.50am

2345 said...

Just read the following on 3A's -

"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing freedom of speech - Benjamin Franklin".

2345 (JAB) 1.35 p.m.

leigh3 said...

'The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.' Thomas Jefferson.

The Ministry of Truth in George Orwell's '1984' was based on a physical description of BBC Broadcasting House which still stands today in Portman Square, London.

In Orwell's nightmare future, the biggest crime was love; the love of one individual for another. That is something beyond the control of the individual and the State.

The love of mankind, and in the case of missing Maddie, the love of children, and our future is a threat to the body politic. Children can't vote. Adults fear disapproval, so it seems in all the 'favours for favours' for 'friends of friends' in the case of missing Maddie, and many missing or abused children.

How we treat the vulnerable is a mark of our character as individuals, and what we are as a society, in my opinion.

Free speech. Generations died for us to enjoy this liberty. May we uphold it still, I hope.
Best wishes all.