4 Feb 2008

THE KEY QUESTIONS

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=32d_1189236699 VIDEO MCCANNS AT POLICE STATION/JUSTINE MCGUINESS


Hi all I have been reviewing what sort of evidence the PJ may have against the McCanns and here was considering the evidence obtained from surveillance and bugging. We know Gerry loved his mobile, using it extensively on the night Madeleine went missing to send and receive 14 texts and he also spent a reported two hours on his mobile from when she was found missing with the result the story was already in the Daily Telegraph at 12.04 am on 3 May - just two hours after she was found to be "missing". How odd then that in this extract from The Times a friend reports "Gerry will often refuse to talk on a mobile phone". Seems he became a little paranoid.. This article goes on to confirm the first request the PJ made to the Portuguese Judge was retrospective permission to use evidence from bugging in the prosecution against the McCanns. This is good news because it means all evidence they obtained by bugging can be used against them, even though it was before they got the judge's permission.

In relation to the PJ promptly returning the hire car to the McCanns two days later - this could have been fitted with a satellite tracking device so the McCanns could be kept under surveillance no matter where they went.

British Police are to be commended for maintaining complete silence as to their activities in investigating the McCanns, but Clarence would have us believe they chat to him! Apparently because British Police have not dignified his claim by an answer that just proves what he says is the truth - really? The Home Office would never comment either and I believe it is quite possible they have been bugged since returning to the UK which would have required the approval of our Home Secretary. Such requests are usually granted in the investigation of serious crime. Terrorist conspirators in Birmingham have just been convicted on the basis of a bug planted in the property by MI5 that recorded them and their conversations.

There are fears that certain evidence may have been brought back to the UK by Gerry McCann during one of his many trips back here from the early stages - he claims these trips were to consult solicitors and fund directors. Was losing his wallet in London just a publicity stunt in his overhwelming passion to remain in the press? How odd there were two precious photos of Madeleine in the wallet which some kind thief posted back to him the very same night!! What happened to the twins buggy, the tennis bag (which he denies even owning)? Why did he go and dump a new fridge from a rented property and pay out of his own pocket to replace it? Why offer such bizarre excuses for forensic evidence found?

What has happened to the separate defence fighting fund that it was reported back in September the McCanns were going to set up? Did the McCanns realise the public were not going to give them any more money? More to the point what has happened to those expensive London lawyers? The only person we ever hear about defending them now is Edward Smethurst, who has no experience in criminal law at all and has, very oddly, become one of the Directors of the Find Madeleine Fund. He replaces one of the two directors who suddenly felt the need to resign. This coincides very nicely with the PJ making it clear the investigation was going to continue with a fourth visit to the UK to interview members of the TAPAS group. A read back confirms there are four members of this group the PJ are particularly interested in. Jane Tanner, Russell O'Brien, Rachel and Matthew Oldfield. They have insisted Murat was hanging around that night. Crucially also Matthew Oldfield says he checked on the McCann children at 9.30 whereas Jane of course intimates Madeleine was being carried off 15 minutes before. Wilkins is a vital witness confirming he did not see Jane Tanner and there are two waiters who will also confirm she did not leave the table. It is interesting to read that Gerry, apparently, even raised the subject of leaving their children alone during the conversation with Wilkins saying they would have stayed in with their children had they not been on holiday with friends. I believe he was again deliberately staging an abduction scenario by making sure he told all and sundry the children were left alone. I also believe he planned the abduction would actually take place sometime after 9.30 and there was an error in getting the stories right - Jane Tanner slipped up with the time given to the PJ of 9.30CORRECTION 9.15! . I believe this to be the case because Gerry called a woman to their table at 9.30 - I believe he wanted to make sure that no one could possibly blame him for removing Maddie - he knew that OB was doing this.

Gerry complaining he wanted to know details of the case against them and that his defence team were working in the dark again confirms to me he knew they were going to be charged. What parent, who was genuinely innocent would go to all this trouble? WE also heard remarks from him that it was important they remain in Portugal "to control the investigation". This is a very strange comment to make. Would it have been more natural to say "to continue to co-operate fully with the police so they can try and find our daughter". Why the obsession with controlling the investigation and how realistic was it for him to think he could do that. How badly did he want to continue to control the investigation once the PJ accused him and his wife! We know that Kate was extremely un-coperative with the police during her interrogation refusing to answer many questions. Gerry apparently did answer the questions - what can we deduce from this? I can honestly say the only time I have seen Gerry McCann look extremely sad and dejected was when he came out of the police station - the inevitable conclusion I draw from this is that the knowledge the game was up really upset him, but previously, as we saw with the silly grin outside the Whitehouse and his tennis games just a few days later he was certainly not upset by the loss of his daughter. Kate was not even showing upset on exiting the police station - she looked arrogant and defiant. No wonder I cannot be sure which one did actually kill Madeleine - in their own very different ways they act - guilty as hell! I have included a further piece from The Times - the key questions which I think is really helpful. Most of us agree in order to move forward, looking back now can be very helpful - particularly with all the subsequent spin and behaviour we have seen - things start to make even more sense!

Viv x




“Gerry will often refuse to talk on a mobile phone. He prefers to use land-lines as he considers them safer. That is based on information that they have received during the investigation. It makes them feel really awkward in their own home. They feel they are being watched at all times.”
The source added that this did not suggest that their conversations were in any way furtive as a result. “They are entirely innocent and have nothing whatsoever to hide.”
The couple have, however, decided to avoid talking over the phone about how they would clear their names if charged by the police, fearing that it would give the Portuguese an unfair advantage.
Some of the McCanns’ friends who were with them on holiday in Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance in May have also been told that they may be being bugged.

Portuguese detectives would have to file a mutual legal assistance request with the Home Office if they wanted phone calls to be bugged in Britain. Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, would have to sanction an application, which would be carried out by British authorities.
Neither the Home Office nor Leicestershire Constabulary would comment yesterday on whether any request had been received or put in place. A spokesman for the McCanns also refused to comment.
Under Portuguese law bugging telephones and computers is admissible evidence in court. The police are, however, required to get a judge’s approval. If they were unable to get permission before fitting the devices, they can apply to the courts retrospectively.
It is understood that one of the first applications made by the PolÍcia Judiciária to the judge was a retrospective application to continue bugging the McCanns and to use information already gleaned from the surveillance operation in court.
One option open to the police would have been to fit the McCanns’ car, hired 25 days after the child’s disappearance, with a satellite tracking device. Detectives believe that the vehicle was used to dump the child’s body after it had been concealed. The tracker would have pinpointed where the car was driven.
The bugging claim is the latest salvo in the increasingly acrimonious battle being played out in the media as the McCanns, who under Portuguese law cannot comment on the case, and the police, who are bound by the same restrictions, try to win over the public.
The couple’s fears about their every move being monitored emerged as the Portuguese police were granted permission by the investigating judge to apply to Britain to search the McCanns’ family home. Detectives believe that the couple flew back with vital evidence that could help the police to establish whether they had some involvement in the child’s death.
Last night the McCanns insisted that there was an innocent explanation for sniffer dogs having detected the presence of human bodies in their Portuguese hire car. A source said that the Renault Mégane Scenic was used to ferry bags containing rotting meat and other rubbish to a nearby tip.
“There were not proper dustbins at the villa and as a result the family had to regularly transport their household waste including rotting food, rotting meat and soiled nappies to a communal disposal area,” the source said.
“The vehicle was used as a rubbish lorry for the family, so there would potentially have been the scent of rotting flesh, excrement and urine. Who’s to say that the nappy bag didn’t leak?”
Madeleine’s sandals are also believed to have been transported in the car, potentially allowing DNA from sweat to be transferred.
The source said that Kate and Gerry McCann’s legal team were working in a vacuum trying to prepare any defence for the couple, because of a lack of information from the Portuguese authorities.
“There is a lack of communication right down the line to them. The defence team is having to draw up a case without knowing what the allegations are. Gerry asks, ‘What have we been accused of?’ He doesn’t know and nor does anyone else.”
The McCanns’ efforts to fight police leaks about scientific evidence said to prove that they had some hand in their daughter’s death saw the couple criticised yesterday by the English organisation analysing samples seized from the scene of Madeleine’s disappearance and the family hire car. The Forensic Science Service is frustrated that DNA examinations they have carried out for the Portuguese police were being rubbished by the publicity campaign launched by the McCanns.
The Birmingham company is due to hand over a new batch of DNA test results carried out on samples taken from Praia da Luz. They are due to arrive in Portugal in the next few days.
The tests are looking for traces of her DNA from material gathered around Praia da Luz, including alleged blood samples found in an apartment close to the one from where Madeleine disappeared on May 3.


Madeleine McCann: the key questions
David Brown and Steve Bird examine the puzzles and mysteries at the heart of the four month investigation
Why are the “Tapas 9” key to solving the Madeleine mystery?
Kate and Gerry McCann were dining with seven British friends at a tapas restaurant in the Ocean Club resort when Madeleine was reported missing. The friends are crucial witnesses but have said very little publicly. Police sources have claimed there are inconsistencies in their statements to officers. The friends are Matthew and Rachael Oldfield, Russell O’Brien and his partner Jane Tanner and David and Fiona Payne and her mother Dianne Webster.
Did any of them see anyone taking Madeleine?
Jane Tanner told police that she saw a man walking away from the McCanns’ apartment at 9.15pm. Sources close to the couple have previously said that the man had a child wrapped in the blanket and was walking in a southerly direction. However, the London Evening Standard reported yesterday that Ms Tanner had seen man carrying a girl dressed in Madeleine’s distinctive pink-and-white pyjamas walking eastwards, towards the house of the official suspect Robert Murat, 33.
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Do police believe this was a man abducting Madeleine?
Detectives refused to publicise the sighting for three weeks. Another witness, Jeremy Wilkins, is reported to have told police that he was in the area talking to Mr McCann and did not see the mystery man.
Did anyone else in the Tapas 9 notice anything strange?
Matthew Oldfield said he had checked on the McCanns’ apartment at 9.30pm. A source close to the McCanns had said he did not look into the bedroom where Madeleine was sleeping with the two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie. But the Evening Standard report claimed he saw the twins but did not have a view of Madeleine’s bed.
Was there anything strange about the room after Madeleine disappeared?
Mrs McCann was sure Madeleine had been abducted because the bedroom window was open and the security shutter was forced open, a source close to the family has insisted. Tests on the shutter showed no sign of forced entry. However, another friend claimed yesterday that the shutter had been left open.
When will the Portuguese courts decide what to do in the Madeleine case?
Pedro Daniel dos Anjos Frias, a criminal instructional judge in Portimão, has decided that there is no need for the McCanns to be reinterviewed at this point, hence the prosecutor’s statement last night. The threat of them having to return to the Algarve in the near future has been lifted. The judge must complete his rulings by today on a variety of issues. It is believed that he has already authorised the use of Mrs McCann’s diaries as evidence.
Could the couple still be charged soon?
Unlikely. LuÍs Armando Bilro Verão, the lead public prosecutor, must now decide if there is sufficient evidence to bring charges against them, if he needs to request the PolÍcia Judiciária to carry out further investigations or if the case against them should be dropped.
Why is it all taking so long?
Portuguese detectives are still waiting for the results of tests on samples being carried out by the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham. They are also believed to want to carry out further searches in the Algarve and possibly at the McCanns’ home.
So how long will the McCanns have to wait?
The couple can remain as arguidos, or official suspects, for eight months before the Portuguese police have to apply for a four-month extension. After this time they automatically cease to be suspects, but there is no requirement for the prosecutor to clear them formally.
Robert Murat, a British self-employed property consultant on the Algarve and the only other official suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, has been an arguido for four months.
Why has there been so much confusion?
Portugal’s strict laws of judicial secrecy mean that nobody involved in a criminal investigation is allowed to reveal any of the evidence in the case. However, Portuguese police sources are regularly quoted giving incriminating details about the McCanns’ role in their daughter’s disappearance. Friends of the couple have increasingly been attempting to challenge these reports with their own interpretation of events. Both sides are actually breaking the law and could face up to two years in jail.
Who is who in Team McCann
Clarence Mitchell
Former BBC journalist appointed on Monday as Kate and Gerry McCann’s official spokesman. Represented them in May and June after being sent to Praia da Luz by the Foreign and Commonwealth Offic
Michael Caplan, QC
One of few solicitors to be appointed QC, expert in extradition and international criminal law. Prevented extradition to Spain of former Chilean president General Augusto Pinochet
Angus McBride
Leading criminal solicitor with expertise in dealing with media and protecting reputation of individuals subject to media or criminal investigation
Carlos Pinto de Abreu
One of Portugal’s best-known lawyers with reputation for taking on controversial cases. Lodged McCanns’ libel action against Portuguese newspaper which said they were police suspects
Esther McVey
Former GMTV presenter and Conservative parliamentary candidate, trustee and spokeswoman for Madeleine Fund. Has known Mrs McCann since they did their A levels together
Father Haynes Hubbard
Anglican priest at church of Nossa Senhora da Luz (Our Lady of the Light) in Praia da Luz and his wife, Susan, have become close friends and confidants of McCanns
Calum MacRae
18-year-old internet expert runs Find Madeleine website which has attracted more than 400,000 unique users and helped to raise more than £1 million in donations for campaign
Philomena McCann
Mr McCann’s sister, a headteacher, has been key family member to publicise hunt for Madeleine and to defend her parents
Trish and Sandy Cameron
Mr McCann’s sister and brother-in-law have been frequent visitors to the couple in Praia da Luz and Rothley. About 30 other relatives and friends also visited them in Praia da Luz
Why are the McCann’s early television interviews being scrutinised?
Commentators have seized on the lack of emotion shown by Kate and Gerry McCann during a series of televised statements and interviews in the weeks after Madeleine’s disappearance. It is claimed that this was an unnatural response and indicated that the couple were hiding something. In fact, criminal profilers had advised them to display no overt emotion in case Madeleine’s abductor “got off" on the sight of her parents in obvious distress. Off camera, they were deeply distressed and received help from counsellors.
How can the police establish Mrs McCann’s state of mind?
Prosecutors are reported to want access to Mrs McCann’s medical records to see if there is any history of illness such as depression which could explain why she would kill Madeleine. They are also said to want British police to carry out investigations into the couple’s relationship and personal history.
Could Mrs McCann’s handwriting be used as evidence?
A judge has authorised police to seize Mrs McCann’s diary and detectives want a graphologist to study the handwriting, it was reported yesterday. Alberto Vaz da Silva, a criminal psychologist and a handwriting expert, told the newspaper 24 Horas: “It would be possible to discover the temper and the character of the person in question. You can see if someone is lying or hiding something.” However, handwriting evidence is usually used only for forensic science purposes, not to determine a person’s emotional state.
Why could Mrs McCann’s newspaper interview lead to jail?
Mrs McCann could be prosecuted under Portugal’s laws of judicial secrecy for telling the Sunday Mirror that police had seized her bible. She said: “One of the pieces of evidence is that a page from a passage in Samuel about having to tell a man his child is dead is crumpled - so I must have been reading it.” The 24 Horas newspaper said that the public prosecutor could accuse Mrs McCann of breaking the secrecy law, which carries a maximum two years' jail sentence. Varradas Leitao, a member of the Superior Council of the Ministerial Publico, said: “A witness or an arguida, the law is the same for everybody. You cannot divulge procedural acts.”
What are the police doing to find Madeleine or her body?
Portuguese police are reported to be preparing for a new series of searches using sniffer dogs and infra-red equipment in an area between Praia da Luz and the village of Burgau, about two miles to the west. It has also been suggested that they will search the church in Praia da Luz and the town of Arao, where a big operation was carried out after an anonymous tip-off to a Dutch newspaper.
Who is advising Kate and Gerry McCann?
British lawyers Michael Caplan, QC, an expert in international law, and Angus McBride, a solicitor who specialises in protecting the reputation of individuals subject to media or criminal investigation. They have also hired a Portuguese lawyer, Carlos Pinto de Abreu, who filed the libel action against a newspaper which said the police suspected them of involvement in their daughter’s death.
How can the couple win the battle of public opinion?
Clarence Mitchell, 46, has been appointed as their official spokesman. He resigned yesterday as head of the Government’s Media Monitoring Unit and had previously been seconded to the Foreign Office to help the McCanns in the weeks after Madeleine’s disappearance.
What can Mr Mitchell do to help the McCanns?
His job at the Cabinet Office has given him contacts among senior members of the Government and Civil Service. He also has extensive contacts with journalists in both Britain and Portugal and more than 20 years’ experience as a reporter.
Are the McCanns paying for his services?
No. He has been employed by one of their wealthy backers and will continue to work for that person after the Madeleine case is over.
What action will the police take this week?
Portuguese detectives are due to arrive in Leicester to work with a British police team investigating Madeleine’s disappearance. It has been reported that Kate McCann could be interviewed again this week. A Portuguese judge must decide by Thursday whether to approve requests by Portuguese police to secure more evidence.
Who’s advising British police on the case?
Tony Connell, a member of the Crown Prosecution Service’s special casework unit, has been advising the “Gold Group” of senior detectives at Leicestershire Police, which is investigating the Madeleine case. Mr Connell led the review which led to the conviction of Damilola Taylor’s killers.
Could the McCanns be prosecuted in Britain?
It is possible to prosecute a British citizen for a murder or manslaughter abroad under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. This was last done in 2005 when Christopher Newman was convicted at the Inner London Crown Court of murdering Georgina Eager in Dublin.
Can the public support Kate and Gerry McCann’s legal battle?
A fighting fund to help to pay their legal costs is expected to be announced within the next few days. A source close to the family told The Times: “It will be getting set up and formalised as a proper fund. It has to be meticulously thought through.”
Why is the McCanns’ hire car pivotal to the investigation?
Portuguese police claim they have found traces of Madeleine’s hair and bodily fluid in the boot of the Renault Scenic, indicating that it was used to transport Madeleine’s body after her death. Scientists have said that it should be possible to establish whether the hair came from a dead or living person.
Does this mean the scientific results hold the key to the case?
Not necessarily. Kate and Gerry McCann used the Budget rental car to move apartments, taking with them all their children’s toys and clothing, which would have contained large amounts of genetic material. It was also used by friends, relatives and people who worked on the campaign to find their daughter.
Where is the car now?
When the McCanns left Britain they drove the car to the airport. They have since said they will hold on to the vehicle to get their own independent scientific examinations done.
Under what circumstances was the car searched?
Police seized the car last month and took it to an underground car park opposite their offices in Portimão. Police sources say this is an unusual place to carry out such a delicate search.
Is there any other explanation about how the material could have got there?
If the DNA samples did come from Madeleine’s corpse it would seem an amazing coincidence that the McCanns hired a car used by their daughter’s abductor and killer. However, friends of the McCanns claim that the couple are being framed. It has also been suggested that the samples may have been labelled incorrectly.
Why do Portuguese police want to read Kate McCann’s personal diaries?
Detectives want to check for inconsistencies with the information previously given to police and for clues about the personal relationship between Mrs McCann, her husband and other members of the party who went with them to Portugal. Mrs McCann was seen regularly writing several pages a day in the diaries.
What evidence could be held on Gerry McCann’s laptop computer?
Mr McCann sent and received dozens of e-mails almost every day from friends and people involved in the campaign to find his daughter. It may be possible to retrieve those e-mails, which detectives hope could provide information about the events surrounding Madeleine’s disappearance and the couple’s connections with other people.
Why does a Portuguese judge need to authorise the seizure?
Portuguese police must get an authorisation from a judge to request items which are abroad or to retain items taken without the owner’s permission. Mr and Mrs McCann are believed to have taken most of the objects home to Britain. There are also reports in Portugal that police seized a copy of Mrs McCann’s diaries before the couple left the country to ensure they could not be destroyed. A judge must be asked to authorise a seizure without the owner’s consent within 24 hours.
Why didn’t the Portuguese police seize these items in Praia da Luz?
It may be that the items left Portugal some time ago when Mr or Mrs McCann made previous trips to Britain, or a friend may have taken them. The couple left the Algarve on Sunday morning at very short notice. They notified the Portuguese authorities but perhaps police did not have the opportunity to ask a judge to authorise the seizure of items without the couple’s consent.
Has the judge been asked to authorise any other seizures?
Portuguese papers reported yesterday that officers wanted to obtain Madeleine’s favourite soft toy, which Mrs McCann took home. It is also claimed that police seized the Renault hired by the McCanns 25 days after Madeleine’s disappearance. The car contained samples of the girl’s hair and “bodily fluids”.
What else has the judge been asked to do?
It has been reported that detectives want to search the church in Praia da Luz where the couple regularly prayed after Madeleine disappeared. They would only require an order from the judge if the priest or bishop in charge refused to authorise the search. It has also been suggested that police want to search a cemetery beside the church and to excavate roads where sewers were being replaced at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance.
Who is revealing details about scientific evidence?
By law Portuguese police are prevented from revealing details of investigations. However, some officers have been secretly briefing Portuguese journalists.
What scientific evidence have police collected?
In a briefings on Monday night detectives said that they found traces of “bodily fluids” in the car which had probably come from Madeleine with a large amount of Madeleine’s hair in the boot of the car.
Why are the “bodily fluids” significant?
When pathologists refer to bodily fluids they usually mean the putrefying substance created during the decomposition of a body tissue and blood. This “fluid” is evidence that a corpse has been present, but DNA samples are required to identify the body. It is unclear what “fluids” have been found. It might be traces of urine, dried blood or vomit, which would not conclusively prove Madeleine had died.
Does a large quantity of hair prove that Madeleine’s body was in the car?
No. The hair must show evidence that it came from a decomposing body. Other hair could be “transmitted” from items of Madeleine’s clothing and belongings.
Is anyone else confirming these reports?
Sources in Britain who are assisting the Portuguese investigation have agreed that there is “significant” scientific evidence linking Mr and Mrs McCann to their daughter’s death. However, Portuguese officers took the highly unusual step of publicly denying a report which was allegedly based on sources in Britain.
Does the scientific evidence prove that Madeleine was killed?
Because the samples have degraded over time the scientists can never be 100 per cent certain that they came from Madeleine.
What happened in the four hours before Madeleine was reported missing?
Kate and Gerry McCann claim that while they dined at a restaurant with friends regular checks were made on Madeleine and their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, at their nearby holiday apartment. Mr McCann told police he saw his daughter asleep at about 9pm. A friend, Matthew Oldfield, entered the apartment at about 9.30pm but did not look in the bedroom Madeleine and the twins were sharing.
It is not known if anyone apart from Mr and Mrs McCann saw Madeleine alive between 6pm and 10pm, when she was reported missing by her mother. The timing is crucial but would be only circumstantial evidence in any prosecution. Although a small child could be killed quickly it would take time to hide a body so that it was not discovered in the biggest search in Portuguese history.
Why did Kate McCann cry out “They’ve taken her?” when she discovered Madeleine missing?
Portuguese police are reported to find it suspicious that Mrs McCann immediately believed that more than one person had taken her daughter. This could suggest that she knew who had taken Madeleine, perhaps people who thought they were helping Mrs McCann by removing her daughter’s body.
Alternatively, it could be an off-the-cuff remark by an hysterical mother or perhaps was misheard or misunderstood in the confusion of the night.
What were the movements of the McCann’s friends on the night Madeleine disappeared?
The McCann family had stayed at the Ocean Club resort with three other British couples and their five children, and a single woman. Russell O’Brien, a doctor from Exeter, left the restaurant for half an hour to look after his own daughter, returning shortly before Madeleine was reported missing.
His wife, Jane Tanner, was the only witness to report a man carrying away child from the McCann’s apartments. There is confusion about when members of the party arrived at the tapas restaurant and left to check on their own sleeping children.
How much alcohol did the McCanns and their friends drink on the evening Madeleine disappeared?
Kate and Gerry McCann and their friends are reported to have told detectives they shared four bottles of wine, with another two barely touched before Madeleine was discovered missing.
However, it is claimed detectives have recovered a bill showing they downed eight bottles of red wine and six white during the afternoon and evening.
Why was Madeleine’s bedroom window and shutter open?
Kate and Gerry McCann told police that the window shutter in Madeleine’s bedroom, which could not been seen from the restaurant, had been forced open.
Police tests showed the heavy metal shutter had not been forced up from the outside, so must have been pulled open from inside the room. Assuming that the abductor entered through the apartment’s unlocked patio windows, why would he or she not leave by the same way or the use the front door?
Or was the window opened to make it appear as if an intruder had used it to enter the bedroom?
Why did Madeleine’s sister and brother sleep through her “abduction”?
Sean and Amelie were heavy sleepers who were not disturbed by their sister’s abduction, claim their parents. However, they also slept through their mother’s hysterical response to Madeleine’s disappearance and the presence of dozens of people who joined the search before being carried out by a female police officer. Kate and Gerry McCann have strenuously denied sedating their daughter.
Why were the McCanns allowed to leave Portugal if they are suspects?
The Portuguese authorities allowed the McCanns to return to the UK after they agreed to reside only at their home in Rothley and to return for further questioning if necessary.
Portuguese law states that after someone is declared a suspect, police have eight months to conclude the investigation into that individual. If they require further time officers can apply to the courts for a four-month extension.
If the McCanns refused to comply with a request to return to the Algarve for interview, Portuguese police could issue a European Arrest Warrant under which extradition can be carried out within six weeks.
Why has it taken so long to find the evidence that could implicate Kate and Gerry McCann?
The material was only collected at the end of July and early August in a review of the investigation carried out by Portuguese detectives with the help of British police and two sniffer dogs. Many of the samples are very small, containing just a few cells, while others are of poor quality because of damage by cleaning or simply the passing of time.
A full report of the findings will not be ready for weeks, but many results have already been passed to the Portuguese authorities.
What evidence were police looking for?
Detectives are searching for any evidence that proves Madeleine is dead or contradicts the accounts of Mr and Mrs McCann and other witnesses.
What is the most important forensic evidence?
It appears the Forensic Science Service believes it has discovered compelling new evidence, possibly from more than one source. Portuguese detectives told Mrs McCann repeatedly that they found traces of Madeleine’s blood in a Renault Scenic hired three weeks after she disappeared, suggesting that the missing girl’s parents used the vehicle to carry her body. It is possible to tell if the blood came from a living person or from a corpse, and even the time of death. However, some reports suggest that the quality of the blood sample was too poor to confirm the origin while others have denied any blood was found in the vehicle and claim it was other “bodily fluids”. Unless a body had been placed in a freezer, it would have badly decomposed during the warm weather; leaving a mass of traces invisible to the human eye.
Does any trace of Madeleine in the hire car prove she was killed?
No. Mr and Mrs McCann hired the car to buy new clothes in the town of Portimão a day before they flew to Rome to see Pope Benedict XVI. They then used it regularly for family outings and to collect friends and relatives from Faro airport. They continued using the car until shortly before flying home yesterday. Kate and Gerry and their two-year-old twins would have often carried in the car items used by Madeleine. These items could easily certainly carry Madeleine’s hair and minute traces of skin, dried blood, saliva and vomit. The same could be said of the holiday apartments used by the McCanns and their friends in the Ocean Club resort. However, if the blood came from Madeleine’s corpse the only other highly unlikely explanation would be that a previous hirer had moved the body.
One report suggested yesterday that Madeleine’s DNA had been found on the floor of the McCanns holiday apartment, but because of degredation it was based on an incomplete picture, with only 15 of the 20 genetic markers usually used for such analysis.
What is the DNA evidence that has supposedly been found by the Portuguese investigators?
Newspapers in Portugal have been reporting that “biological fluids” with an 80 per cent match to Madeleine’s DNA have been found underneath upholstery in the boot of the McCanns’ rented Renault Scenic. Some media reports claimed that another DNA sample with a 100 per cent match to that of Madeleine’s profile had been found in the car.
What would this tell us?
Perhaps nothing. If it was sourced from something such as a hair follicle or skin cells then that could have been one of Madeleine’s hairs that had stuck to the clothes of a family member or her “cuddle cat” toy that her mother carries. If it was from Madeleine’s blood or corpse, that could be more significant. The most important issue is the size of the sample found. If there was a substantial amount of material it is unlikely to be from accidental contamination and would indicate that Madeleine had been in the car.
Can investigators establish if the DNA sample comes from someone who was alive or dead?
Unlikely, according to British experts. A DNA profile does not change just because someone dies. You can tell if DNA has degraded but that can happen if, for example, it had been exposed to sunshine.
Does an 80 per cent match with biological fluids indicate that Madeleine was definitely in the car?
No. The sample will have been tested against a definite sample of Madeleine’s. A 80 per cent match indicates that profilers could find only 16 of the 20 markers usually used for such analysis and suggests that the biological traces are tiny and degraded. Additionally, the twins Sean and Amelie could share a high percentage of DNA characteristics as most siblings do.
What complicates the matter further is that all three of the McCanns’ children were born through IVF and it is unknown whether the couple’s sperm and eggs were used for conception.
What about the discoveries of the “cadaver” sniffer dog?
Mr and Mrs McCann were shown a police video of a sniffer dog used to find corpses “going crazy” when it approached the hire car. Reports also claim that is discovered the scent on the vehicle’s key fob. Mrs McCann is reported to have explained that in her work as locum GP she came into contact with six corpses in the weeks leading up to Algarve holiday.
This seems a high number for a locum GP working just a couple of days a week but would be easy to check against surgery records.
The crucial difficulty with the sniffer dog “evidence” is that it cannot distinguish between corpses. This type of dog is trained to find bodies, not identify where dead bodies have been. Crucially, they can become excited by other scents.
Any evidence of Madeleine’s death on Cuddle Cat?
The cadaver dog is alleged to have become excited when shown Madeleine’s favourite soft pink toy, called Cuddle Cat. The cat had become poignant symbol of a mother’s loss as Kate McCann carried it with her at all time from the night of Madeleine’s disappearance.
She washed it four days after the police tests, claiming it had become dirty. The toy was potentially crucial evidence and should have been seized by police very early in the investigation.
What evidence can be found in Mrs McCann’s Bible?
Mrs McCann, a devout Roman Catholic, claims that police told her that a crumpled page in her Bible was evidence that she was involved in the death of her daughter. The page contained a passage from Samuel II, chapter 12, verses 15-19, which recalls how man’s child is stricken with illness after he “scorns” the Lord.
The man fasts for seven days, refusing to get up off the ground, to try to gain redemption — but eventually his child dies. Mrs McCann claims that detectives told her that damage to the page proved she had been reading it.
Why are the McCanns suspects in their daughter’s killing?
Portuguese police refuse to say why the couple have been made official suspects. Under Portuguese law police can not question someone as if they had committed a crime unless they are a “suspect”. It could simply be that police wanted to ask the couple about the evidence they had collected, and that the seriousness of the process has been misunderstood and exaggerated by cultural and language differences. The McCanns believed that they were about to be charged with Madeleine’s death, but it does not appear police disclosed any crucial evidence to them.
All parties have strenuously denied any wrongdoing.

61 comments:

2345 said...

Thank you for the article. With regard to last sentence "The McCanns believed that they were about to be charged with Madeleine's death but it doesn't appear Police disclosed any crucial evidence to them."

It's standard procedure for British Police to liaise with and release information to BBC etc. at critical junctures in criminal investigations. Leicester Police & PJ both had critical FSS information prior to the parents being called to inteview on 7 September and subsequently named arguido. Therefore, the following information publicly released by Jane Hill for BBC would have definitely been presented to the McCanns on 7 September for the purpose of lengthy questioning:

Transcript "An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". Also "Sousa himself told of this very fine mist of spray that was found in the apartment". This piece of information was released only once - that night.

The strictures applicable to PJ releasing the above did not apply to Leicester Police, i.e. British parents, British child. BBC deployed a reporter to Luz for live coverage of outcome of PJ's interview.

With regard to Madeleine's hairs reportedly found on or in wheel well, an independent forensic scientist confirmed at the time that corpse hair is readily identifiable from that of the living. Ditto body specimen material. It was also confirmed at that time that whilst 100% is termed 'conclusive' specimen ratio of 88% bodily fluid (reported) confirms specimens belong to no other person, although termed 'inconclusive'.

Pro-abductors have repeatedly misconstrued the word 'inconclusive'. Independent forensic scientists further confirmed DNAA of 'meat' is readily identifiable from human tissue. DNA content of twins nappy contents are readily identifiable from Madeleine's DNA. Therefore, Kate's explanations are negated by DNA results - 100% DNA match to Madeleine's hairs and 55% bodily fluids.

A knowledgeable commentator (? Docmac - apologies if another) confirmed greater hair loss occurs from a corpse.

Interestly, parallel cases are equally unpopular with 'pro abductors' in DE Forum. In Sarah Payne & Sohon schoolgirl cases, Police released critical information and also withheld information in pursuit of arrest of respective suspects. Both men were interviewed and released, a known paedophile and the school caretaker. They were reinterviewed and subsequently charged after all the evidence was retrieved. DNA evidence in Sarah's abductor's vehicle and clothing led to his trial and imprisonment. DNA in Huntley's vehicle and mobile tracking led to his trial and imprisonment. Maxine Carr, his girlfriend was not party to sexual abuse/killings; she did assist in 'scrubbing' away the evidence in Huntley's house and lied to assist his cover up.

As a longstanding DE Forum commentator, three things were made very clear. Pro abductors loathed forensic evidence and any inference that Gerry (not Kate) was the party responsible for the damning FSS information released by British Police in the investigation into Madeleine's disppearance. They likewise loathed any reference to Kate's injuries or any suggestion that she was a 'battered wife'.

I've drawn my own conclusions as to the parent most likely to have caused the evidence in Jane's report based on behaviours shown by respective parents throughout the case. PR putting the spotlight on Kate was designed to maintain public sympathy and increase financial gain.

The psyche behind the cold, calculated cover up is spine chilling. It appears to be psychotic - without moral or social conscience - evil.

felicity said...

Hiya 2345

That was a very interesting post. Everything that is beyond my sig Viv is copied from The Times and I do not necessarily agree with everything they write even though reproducing it. To a lesser extent, The Times have painted a similar picture to the rest of the press - seeking to put the best spin on it to excuse the McCanns.

I do not think it is necessarily the case that crucial parts of the investigation are disclosed as you suggest. I think it is more likely the case the British Police will only disclose certain things for a purpose as the PJ did - e.g. to put pressure on suspects and carefully monitor the reaction. What does seem to be pretty standard practice in the UK is to ask suspect parents to do a televised appeal to the abductors and I feel sure this would have been done with the McCanns. Pschologists would then very carefully analyse the footage. We do have the equivalent to that though with interviews the McCanns chose to give. Did you see the one with Jane Hill that I posted in January - that was an extremely good one for guaging their reactions. When the McCanns both stated they were immediately certain Madeleine had been abducted - no question of that in their minds they both looked very uncomfortable and their vehement insistence just made it worse. Clearly there is no way, given what they say, they could have been so adamant Maddie did not wander off. If I recollect the only information released about Huntley was that he had been arrested and then charged. The sort of information you are referring to e.g. forensic details were not given, to my knowledge - we learned of this during the trial. Neither was the detail that Maxine Carr had scrubbed down released so far as I can recall. It is for this reason that I cannot really understand the arguments that Kate and Gerry should know the evidence against them - our own Police do not give this to suspects. I also find it bizarre the way Rosie and Co keep insisting the PJ should give a detailed press conference exactly setting out where they are with the investigation. How they would like this so they could start to think of a way out of it! I think the PJ are extremely clever in the decisions taken as the bits they do release because they have extracted answers in the public domain the McCanns cannot resile from or think up a better answer - dirty nappies and rotten meat etc!

It was Docmac who confirmed that an 88% match is a match - it cannot relate to anyone else - but, by the same token neither can it be called "conclusive" but only because it is not nearer to 100&. We know that samples were degraded due to cleaning, heat, passage of time etc. That is why there is an 88 match rather than nearer 100 certain markers are missing due to damage to the sample but it still could not match anyone else. There will be forensic experts to explain this to the court of course - far better than we can! Doc also confirmed my suggestion that hair would be shed from a corpse at a greater rate than from a living person - although stressing living people lose a lot of hair every single day. Reports state that it should be possible to tell whether hair and blood came from a living person or a corpse - one can imagine the length and breadth of tests the FSS have conducted but we know the blood samples were damaged - certainly in the apartment by cleaning and in the hire car could not have got there other than by bits of dried old blood flaking off - either towels etc carried in there or Maddies body. I think doc is of the same view as me - it may be that Maddie was not transported in the boot - dirty materials were in there to be taken for disposal. However I recall there were also reports the PJ knew the body had been moved around various locations.

Another thing that seems to be unremarked upon is that the PJ were reported to have found forensic evidence relating to Maddie in ANOTHER APARTMENT and I would hazard a guess this would be the OB's right next door.

As you say it is pretty standard practice to interview suspects and then release them again. They are then kept under secret surveillance often for months at a time to obtain further evidence to secure a conviction. I am sure this is what has happened in the McCann case - hence me suggesting our Home Secretary would have authorised bugs in their home and on their phones etc for this purpose. Gerry says he is more confident with a land line but (!)

I agree the Pros hate any specific references e.g. to Kate's injuries and any poster on the DE daring to mention such matters you could see them clearly singled out for an attack - as you were, myself, Docmac and a number of others. I have often likened this to a pack of vultures descending on their quarry. Suddenly they all appear within a few minutes of each other. Clearly there is always a scout watching ready to report there is a difficult one on line...and rally the troops. Some of them are so hopeless though..Mandz, Maudlin, Mark,etc you really wonder why they bother. I notice Maudlin has a morbid fascination with me and often her remarks are limited to just saying things like this is viv/felicity or onaclearday is viv - wrongly of course! Their lies are inconsistent rubbish - after telling us how ill and disabled she and her son are - I note she even said a few days ago she works in the law and does interrogatories all the time and she would add in far more complex cases than the McCanns - this did cause me to hoot with laughter because the procedure she refers is for civil not criminal proceedings and SHE has worked on more complex cases! The lady that did not even understand what et al meant or how to write it when she did cotton on! Rosie likes to speak as though she understands law, scientific evidence and child welfare law and procedure and makes a complete fool of herself in the process - they really are a pretty hopeless bunch - oh and Mr Ribeiro is fighting to keep his job and he is just preparing us all for a big climb down by the PJ - does she ever stop with her ridiculous views!!

Psychotic is a term used in psychiatry for someone who is suffering from serious delusional beliefs e.g in shizophrenia someone is controlling their brain, people with bipolar disorder/manic depression may be pscyhotic also and imagining all manner of paranoid schemes e.g. they are being bugged, followed, singled out for sexual attention etc etc in short they are very seriously mentally ill. This has nothing to do with someone who displays the sort of personality disorder displayed by Gerry McCann - psychopathic - evil, cold, calculating, manipulative, egotistical, aggressive, controlling, total lack of empathy etc - this is not a mental illness - it is a person who has had arrested emotional development generally through severe adverse experiences during childhood - sexual abuse, violence etc. but there is also a view that psychopathic people can be born that way, rather than made that way due to defects in the brain. It is a complex subject but should not be confused with mental illness.

Viv x

felicity said...

Hi Again

I would just add that Kate displays symptoms of both mental illness e.g. serious depression - perhaps bipolar and personality disorder although the lack of empathy in her case may be emotional numbness through mental illness. I reproduced the view of the Spanish psychiatrist in 2007 and again in January concerning them both - his view was that Kate is mentally ill and has been for a long time but is now much worse.

I cannot form a certain view as to who may have killed Maddie - we do not know the case well enough really and IMO they both have the capacity. The fact that the one would cover for the other would suggest there are severe problems with both of them. I really do think the cashing in etc is Gerry and have agreed with others he also displays traits of narcisstic personality disorder - notably grandiosity - see his face outside the Whitehouse - this man is not satified at all with being a £75,000 p.a. consultant - he would like to be seriously rich and famous - this I feel explains his preoccupation with getting this story in the press and keeping it there. I do not think Kate has much to do with this - she does not have his delusions of grandeur IMO.

Viv x

Irina said...

Hello 2345 and Viv,
As you rightly pointing McCanns statements, complaints and demands in the light of them being suspects are not justified or accepted in any law enforcement system. Disclosure of vital for investigation information to the suspect before charges could only be practised if it will give the investigation an advantage, as you pointed.
It is only becoming the right of suspect to have access to the evidence, when he/she charged.
McCann and their supporters either keep us for fools, or are the ones themselves.

Also they lie a lot. Gerry states that they age made arguidos, but were not informed in what they are suspected and at the same time Kate states that they are suspected in killing their daughter and disposing of the body.

Do you think there will be interrogation before the elections?

2345 said...

A Warning:

Just looked in on 3 A's site - 5.15 p.m. People are cloning nbrado's and others names and misquoting them on other forums to discredit them. Their Service Provider is alerted and monitoring to eradicate problems.

Seems self appointed Governor of cyberspace aka Clarence has his clones operating usual vile trickery.

2345 said...

Felicity:

3 A's Site: Global Announcement -Monday Feb 04 5.29 (bjr) explains the problems being caused on their site. It's suspected 'someone' is trying to close that forum.

Wanted to let you and everyone know.

lizzy said...

Hi Viv am not surprised that somebody is trying to interfere with the 3 Arguidos, Helen m and Rosipops who I believe are one and the same was getting quite agitated by it the other night.
I would imagine Clarrie is doing everything possible to close it down as it is very similar to the Mirror forum and also contains a lot of people from that site he hated so much.

lizzy said...

Hi Viv am not surprised that somebody is trying to interfere with the 3 Arguidos, Helen m and Rosipops who I believe are one and the same was getting quite agitated by it the other night.
I would imagine Clarrie is doing everything possible to close it down as it is very similar to the Mirror forum and also contains a lot of people from that site he hated so much.

dolores said...

Viv/2345
Good information here Iwill read later, I have been posting on the previous page, wondering why where everyone was. I have left breaking news for you.

xxx

SueB said...

Hi Viv -

'The McCanns - still suspects'

Translation of SOS Madeleine article:

PJ Magistrates and Inspectors did not appreciate the declarations made by the National Director of the PJ; Alipio Ribeiro, even though today the police sources have reaffirmed that that there was a misinterpretation: the director’s words should have been in the sense that, if Kate and Gerry had been named as witnesses, “perhaps they would not have left for the UK. They would have cooperated more fully with the Justice”.

In the Algarve, most of the PJ inspectors have received their director’s statements with surprise, because the line of inquiry has not changed and if the investigation seems to have reached a dead end, in the eyes of the public, several diligences are currently being carried out even if the most important “remains the interrogation of the couple’s friends”, revealed one of the sources in Portimao.

The inspector continue to suspect the couple of having hidden their daughter’s body during the night of 3rd May, confirms the same source for whom “the inquiry is indeed a work of patience” as Alipio Ribeiro stated. “He is not wrong about that”.

During the month of September, there were several inspectors who requested the temporary imprisonment of Kate and Gerry McCann, already holding, at that moment, the firm conviction that there was enough evidence to justify this measure: “Today we have made much advance in the inquiry and we are certain that that Madeleine’s parents and their friends could explain what happened to the child”, the source affirms, saying that for him “the couple’s departure from P da L has complicated things. We are obliged to depend upon the good will of the British authorities.”

During the month of September, the Portimao Public Ministry Attorney, José Magalhães e Menezes, decided to name them arguidos without recurring to preventative imprisonment, leaving the door open for their departure to the UK as the British authorities had requested via their diplomatic representative in Portugal.

Reactions : "All of this is very strange"
Francisco Pagarete, Robert Murat’s lawyer, has refused to comment on the statements made by the PJ Directors, emphasising that “all of this is very strange”. The lawyer of the British man, who has been an arguido since 14th May, declares his surprise at the statements made by Alipio Ribeiro, but prefers to wait for the evolution of the inquiry before deciding if he should react.

“In order to avoid this type of situation there must be discretion and reserve in speech” advises the president of the Public Ministry Magistrate’s Union, Antonio Cluny, who finds it “troubling” to see a PJ official talk about an ongoing inquiry.

Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, University professor of law and political commentator, has stated on Portuguese television that Alipio Ribeiro’s statements are “very serious”. Former Minister and State Advisor, Marcelo accuses Alipio Ribeiro of having “ killed the police investigation when he said that there was haste in declaring the McCann couple as arguidos in the case”.

Atardi said...

Goedenavond Leigh,Viv and others.

The investigation of Madeleine's case is still going in the right direction. This is good news. Go on PJ.

The reason why I wrote about Natalee Holloway was because of some similarities with the Mc Cann case.
Both disappeared during their holliday, many lies from the main suspects,police questions unanswered and a body that (maybe)
will never be found.

Yesterday there was a program with the main suspect in Natalee Holloway's case. It was an undercover interview and he confessed that Natalee was dead.
Someone with a boat helped him to dispose her body in the sea.

This confession came after 2 and a 1/2 year.

So let the PJ keep working in the right direction with all the support from those who want Justice for Madeleine.

Niki said...

God kveld/kalispera/good evening

Viv, I think some norwegian journalists are reading your site! Yesterday I complained about them beeing "lazy"(pure translations from british press) and no "have your say". Today under a good, objective article that contained the ongoing search in the lake, the "hasty" descission and that the Mccann's remain "arguidos", there was a "Discuss the case here"!
This morning the same paper had an article about Natascha Kampusch. Headline was that she supports the Mccanns and belive they are innocent. Wonder if Team Mccann reads your blogg too? If they do, you might have Natascha + Madeleine headlines soon....(or is that old news in UK?)
Keep up the good work!
Niki
22.23 Greek time

Anonymous said...

Goedenavond Atardi, Viv and others.
Yes, Atardi, how interesting that it took more than 2 years for someone to admit that Natalee was dead. I think Viv's earlier summary of the reasons behind silence so far for Maddie is most fascinating.

Gerry McCann after his long interview by police in Portugal was a man distressed for the first time since his daughter went missing, and I think he did realise it was:'Game over.'

Control freaks find that experience excoriating; distressing; incredible. The clock is ticking, and only time and perseverance stand between Justice for Maddie and anyone who did her wrong, in my view.
Sorry about Natalee, by the way. Very sad.
I hope responsible adults everywhere will pursue the truth for children, however long it takes.
Ta ra for now, all true friends of missing and abused children.
xo Leigh

lizzy said...

Hi does anybody remember when the Mccanns were still in Portugal and asked why they were remaining there, think it was summer july or august, kate answered that she felt close to Madeleine there and did not want to leave.? That would go along with the idea that her body may be in that area, in my opinion. Well I think it may imply that, but I may be way off mark.

Anonymous said...

22.03GMT
Hello 2345,
I left a note for you on another thread below this. In the meantime: yes, you are most right to alert others to the attempts to undermine or shut down honest inquiry, e.g. 3 arguidos.
This is a moment in the 21st Century for responsible adults to define what our children will inherit: free speech or cowardice in the face of mere words; mere expensive 'spin'; mere power brokers in their minority trying to shout down the majority of kind, inquisitive, thoughtful adults.
See you sometime, 2345. Always a pleasure to see you fight fantasy with fact, and reason.
Leigh

Anonymous said...

22.08GMT
Hi Lizzy,
Sadly, I think you are right. Maddie was left in Portugal, in every sense, and Kate knows that, imo. I agree with you. They 'whys' and the 'where fors' will become known in public, in due course, I guess. Time will tell, but I think your instinct is correct.
Have a great week. See you next time.
Leigh

Anonymous said...

22.39GMT

Just to cheer up everyone: google bestrest, daily express, homepage.

Personally, I don't understand why people think Maddie has been forsaken by the Press. This is the 21st Century of media manipulators, and bankruptsy for free thought, and free media.

Slowly, slowly catchy monkey. Do see the newcomer on the DE, called 'bestrest'. I think she's very 21st Century, and the McCann Machine is just a bit too stupid to cope with integrity and humour in the Press; it aims to fool the public; treat the public like fools; teeny tots who want an answer NOW,RIGHT NOW, b4 tea time, and beddy byes.

I have no doubt that the media are with Maddie. I'm sorry that it's a longer 'game' than readers and broadcast viewers can tolerate.
See you next time.
Leigh

Irina said...

Hello Leigh,
I also noticed a guy from A3 on DE forum with difficult name(or it could be collective effort), who plays very smartly as well (same logo as A3). All in all things seams to be going in a right direction. Still would it be another 3 months?

Atardi said...

Hallo Leigh,

Sorry for mentioning Natalee again. I noticed this case doesn't "live" in England. She came from America and was on holliday on Aruba.
A Dutch reporter made the interview. This is the talk of the town in Holland.
But I won't mention it again.

In your last posts you made a statement about cowardy and integrity. You are so right. Thank you so much.

Goedenavond.

lizzy said...

Hi Leigh,
Nice to hear from you, I miss you and 2345 on the DE, do you know there is no debate any more, it is mum21 swopping recipes with people, there is nothing happening there, any decent posters left seem to have lost the will to post.I just looked in earlier and had a few words with Betty but everyone else was quiet really.Still Viv's site is excellent and so many nice people from the DE seem to post here. Hope to see you next time...Lizzy x

Anonymous said...

Just a comment on the "wallet pictures" that were so precious.....he did not mention the photo's on his blog, just the theft nor did he mention the RETURN of the photo's...just that "some money was missing...happy to have his liscense back and a few other things"....strange, since it was made such a big deal of to the press by his sister and family how irreplaceable these photo's were...yet he always managed to blog about haircuts for the twins, 17 minutes up the hill on the jog, etc...

Anonymous said...

Goedenavond Atardi and our Russian friend, Irina.

Yes, it's interesting to see how the world weird web unites us in the interests of child welfare, wherever children are. Thank you for the reminder, Atardi.

Irina:yes! How interesting to see certain posters now deal with DE. It's a dead site compared to the recent past. DE must review its policy. Tolerating thugs is never a good idea; thugs win in the short term; they lose in the medium/long term. Circulation suffers.

Personally, I think it's very amusing to see the dolts on the forum swop recipes, and post to Dadto3, even though he had the sense to leave a while ago. The dolts, much like the McCanns, and their hired monkey Clarence Mitchell, have a perverse, grandiose sense of their own importance when actually, they are sociopathic nobodies; just a bore and a chore for the rest of us to endure...until we have Justice for Maddie, and by doing so, make a statement about adults protecting children in the 21st Century, regardless of politics, religion, colour or creed.
Ha. The McCann girlies on the DE are so stupid. Fortunately, children can always rely on women, and gentle men who will support them, imo.
See you next time, good women. The 21st Century is ours to make, imo, and it won't be swopping recipes :-), although that's sweet en famille. xo
Leigh

Anonymous said...

Ahhh. Lizzie!
Nearly missed you. Yes. How funny you should write in your last post about the recipes etc, and the quiet. I just did too. Must have done it when you were writing at the same time. Spooky! Just kiddin'.
Nice to see you here and there. The DE needs posters like you, and bestrest. Isn't she fab? I note that the DE girlie morons check out this site, so just for them: HI GIRLS! Got a good recipe for criminal charges? Do send to Gerry, 'the family pet' - his sister Philomena's words for him. Poor, guy. Born a male, but never became a man. Boo hoo, the little 'pet'.
See ya next time, Lizzy. xo

docmac said...

Na ngeen def (hello everybody). Jaam nga am? (how are you).

Greetings from Dakar. I have only a minute to say that I miss posting here and I hope you are all very well. What has become of the DE forum if as I read here it is recipe night?

Viv, I just wanted to tell you something funny. I had a bit of a language barrier when I arrived yesterday. The guys and gals at immigration speak a mixture of French and Wolof. The guy helping me kept on telling me he needed to give me a tampon. Eventually I understood him to say that he wanted to 'wrap' it in my passport. Turned out this was the stamp they use. Is it the same in French, which I do not speak well at all? lolololol!

Fanaanal jaam (goodnight).

Till next time.

Luv x

felicity said...

Hiya all

I have just been having a look at the DE what a sad bunch but yet that Bestrest certainly dealt with them:-) Wonder if she will get banned though - I see she copies the original article about the dam from here and the DE removed it ha ha truth hurts!

Back to their old tactics of filling the page up quick with nighty nighties when the going gets a bit tough for them - they are a very demoralised little bunch.

I see Mark ooops sorry Doc I mean Bark predicted something big is going to happen in about a week - how much do you want to bet it will be not quite what he was expecting! About time someone well and truly shut up that little 18 year old web designer - I bet he is miffed they got rid of his original find maddie site - mind you there were a few things on there they needed to bury and did you notice the WHOLE of Gerry's blog got thrown out with the baby's bathwater - he dropped a few clangers in there didnt he - a little more than mindless chatter sometimes.. A week maybe a bit previous though, Bark...best just go quietly back to your internet games...\

Good to know they read us though and I really enjoy reading you all.

I bet Clarence is dreaming of all that dosh HE is going to make from the books and films - he forgot to mention that bit to Kate and Gerry I reckon:-) needs to get them tucked up nice first! And so do we ..but we dont have any cash riding on it - all we want is Justice for the Dear Little One.

Luv Viv xxxxx

felicity said...

Hey Doc

You must be flipping pscyhic - no one is going to believe we did this by accident but truly folks we did - we have NOT just come back from the pub...well when you started on about a wrap I thought he was going to offer you some Lebanese gold or something..now just like me sometimes I know you can get a little tetchy so I bet you were just on the point of oh so flippin politely telling him what to do with his tampon - funny old language they got there

Luv ya and fab to hear from you again - have you finished your work bit yet and started your hols?

Viv xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

docmac said...

Hi Viv, still got a connection, but am off to bed now. Had a LONG day with the Government and Health Dept here. Another long day here tomorrow, then off to Zambia for the conference. Wildlife time starts Friday mid-afternoon. Can't wait.

x

felicity said...

Hey Niki

Give me a translation of what they are saying :-) I can take it!

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya again Doc

I have been going to bed since about 10.30 and now midnight - I was busy:-) See that doppelganger is causing a stir in our midst..Ooooh I am so excited for you on Friday - have a fabulous super time and do drop in just when you cash!

Nite Nite meu Amigo
Com amor
~Dorme bem
Viv xxxxxxxxxx
I would not have done all of this without your support THANKS
FOR LITTLE MADDIE GOD BLESS

felicity said...

STILL ON A LINE WITH MCSPANNER AND THE MCSCAMMS SO I WROTE CASH FREUDIAN SLIP INSTEAD OF CAN

LUV X GONNA CRASH NOW

Anonymous said...

00.15GMT
Hi All, Viv, and Doc.

One problem for Clarry and his dreams of millions: he is a material witness to a crime, imo. He has aided and abetted a .....
He is due to be interviewed under caution.
In the UK, the proceeds of crime are confiscated, just to put it briefly.
Clarry: get out while you can. 'Fess up. Oh. Err. Vanity. Ok. That's why you won't.

Nice to see ya Viv; glad you're ok Doc, although Senegal? Cripes. That's more scary than failing landing gear :-)

dolores said...

I thought I would mention a little news about Mari Luz, her parents are selling their modest home in order to raise the reward money.
There is no mention of progress in the search for her.
J.K.Rowling and R.Branson and D.Beckham, profess to care about missing children why are not helping HER parents?

Prayers go to Madeleine and Mari Luz I hope they find them soon.

dolores said...

I thought I would mention a little news about Mari Luz, her parents are selling their modest home in order to raise the reward money.
There is no mention of progress in the search for her.
J.K.Rowling and R.Branson and D.Beckham, profess to care about missing children why are not helping HER parents?

Prayers go to Madeleine and Mari Luz I hope they find them soon.

docmac said...

Good morning Leigh

Senegal scary? No way. I have found the people I have met here to be unfailingly courteous and helpful. I have travelled extensively in Africa and have found the same in the vast majority of places I've been to. I've never encountered any problem or threat anywhere. There are possibly 4 countries on the continent that I would not visit voluntarily at present due to political upheavals, though only in the case of Chad would I actually cancel a pre-booked ticket.

I managed to read the last few pages of comments on yesterday's article on the DE forum. I wonder what this picture is that Christabel found so interesting that she had to forward it to the PJ? I am not saying that I believe she actually did so ;-). She has a history of 'seeing' things in pictures that nobody else can see, though the girlies will always back her up of course. I note that she has shared this picture with Rosie, but claims she could not possibly do so on the DE. Well I guess I'll just have to wait for the headlines then.

I'm off to meetings now. If you read this, have a great day. Greetings to all of you too.

SueB said...

Diário de Notícias - 5/2/2008

Inspectors of Maddie's case frustrated

JOSÉ MANUEL OLIVEIRA

The environment within the Judicial Police (PJ) in the Algarve is of discomfort, after the national director, Alípio Ribeiro, has admitted "precipitation" in the constitution of the McCanns as arguidos, in September 2007, for suspicion of involvement in the disappearance of their daughter in Praia da Luz, Lagos. "Everybody is outraged and they feel demotivated. What he said is not true. It is just politics and nothing else what is behind all this", say sources connected to the process, who feel in the words of Alípio Ribeiro a certificate of "incompetence" to the work so far undertaken by the Judicial Police concerning "Maddie's case." Interestingly, with the knowledge and agreement of the public prosecutor and the British police English, who followed the case.
The statements of the national director of the PJ,to the program Diga lá Excelência of Rádio Renascença and to the Público newspaper, are causing controversy, especially in the judicial area with several judicial officers criticising harshly Alípio Ribeiro and with the General Attorney's Office saying that the situation of Madeleine's parents will be assessed "at the right time". This arose after the request of the couple for the lifting of the arguido status following the words of Alípio Ribeiro.

The assertion of the Director of the PJ that there has been precipitation was poorly received among the inspectors who follow the case and assume a severe seriousness to the investigation, especially at a time when the inspectors are preparing to play a decisive card in England, following the rogatory letters for questioning the couple and the seven friends that dinned with them at the Tapas restaurant, about 30 meters from the apartment of The Ocean Club resort. The purpose of that step, is to try to "clarify" once and for all, the situations that occurred in the evening of May 3, and explore the "contradictions" in the depositions provided at the PJ by the parents of the child and their friends.

When the researchers travel to the UK they will also seize Kate McCann's journal to serve as evidence in court, where the mother of Maddie refers to the difficulty in dealing with an hyperactive daughter. Another subject of interest to the investigation is the famous pink cuddle cat that the girl had always in her possession and that was displayed by the mother in Praia da Luz. The British sniffer dogs experts in detecting odors from cadavers reacted to that object, which ultimately reinforced the suspicions of the police surrounding the death of Madeleine, after having expressed the same signal in the apartment from where the child was taken.

The PJ never believed in the abduction version transmitted by the parents and they were constituted defendants in September after the British dogs flag several locations where the corpse of Maddie passed through from the apartment to the Church of Nossa Senhora da Luz in direction to the beach. How she disappeared and why are explanations that are yet to unveil.

http://dn.sapo.pt/2008/02/05/sociedade/inspectores_caso_maddie_desmotivados.html

8.30am

Niki said...

Good morning Viv

The article about Natascha Kampusch was really not that interesting, but ok, since you asked for it...

The article was about her life in Austria, her future plans and the fact she is going to be the host of her own talk-show whitch will start in March. About the Maddie-case it says: " Natascha, has as a victim of abtuction, followed the Madeleine-case in Portugal closely. She does not belive Kate and Gerry McCann have anything to do with the disapperance of their daughter.
- My mother was also accused of murder, she says to News and expresses her sympathy for the british doctores.
- In some papers it seems like they are murderers. Regarding my own mum it must have been terrible to loose her child and on top of that to be suspected as an criminal."

Well,these two cases has the similarity of two girls disappering, and thats it...

Anyway, wonder if Kate can answer this question: Finding Madeleine gone, why did she not run to Jane Tanners apt.to see if her daughter was there? Knowing that Jane was looking after her sick child, she might have taken Maddie with her on the way back to her apt.?, passing the McCann's apt. and maybe find Madeleine crying? Or Madeleine could have wandered of looking for her play-mates? As I recall, Tanner was the last one to learn about the disapperance...
Oh, and another thing: Would you not as hysterical parents woke up the other children asking them where their sister was? For sure I would, even if they were to young giving reasonable answers...

Have a nice day.
Niki

SueB said...

Hi Niki

Because Jane wasn't in the apartment, she was with the other Tapas crew.

SueB said...

24 Horas - 5/2/2008

Director confirms that the ambiance in the Criminal Police is of "cutting knives"

The ambiance in the PJ, an institution with 2300 persons is of "cutting knives". "The discomfort is total. There are no human or material means. The political interests command. We do our investigation and then things that nobody understand happen.", said a director of the PJ that asked no to be named. António Cluny, president of the Union of the Public Prosecutors says that the statements of Alípio Ribeiro do not affect the task of the public prosecutor Magalhães e Menezes who conducts the investigation. The Union of the Judicial Magistrates also has the same position. The Ministry of Justice does not comment the case. A judicial source of the Portimão's court, contacted by 24 Horas has no doubts: " The investigation continues and the McCanns continue to be suspects in the disappearance of the child. The anterior law obliged that every person suspect of a crime should be constituted arguida. Even if that was made on the basis of a denounce made by a neighbour that did not like her. The Public Prosecutor and the PJ just enforced the law that was in force at the time". Even the university professor and political commentator Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa considered very serious the statement of the national director of the PJ, saying that his sentence "killed the investigation".


ALÍPIO RIBEIRO RECOGNISED THAT HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE CAUTIOUS WHEN HE REFERRED TO THE MCCANNS

The PJ chief apologises

The national director of the PJ had to explain that he expressed himself badly when he said that there was a precipitation in the constitution of the McCanns as arguidos

The statements of Alípio Ribeiro, high responsible for the PJ, when he said that there was a precipitation in the constitution of the Mccanns as arguidos provoked a wave of revolt in that institution.
Yesterday the director of the PJ excused himself to the Union Association of the Employees of Criminal Investigation (ASFIC) presided by the investigator Carlos Anjos and also to the responsible of the DIC of Faro. 24 Horas discovered that according to the explanations of Alípio Ribeiro to the responsible of these institutions and to the Ministry of Justice everything was due to an "error of expression". "What he said is that he did not want to say that but due to the pressure of the media, those words came out of his mouth". He guaranteed that he has all the confidence in the teams that investigated and are investigating the case, explained to 24 Horas a responsible from ASFIC, that asked not to be named. Carlos Anjos, president of the main Union of the PJ, said that about Maddie's case and concerning the statements of the national director of the PJ the "silence is gold". A position that was also assumed by Guilhermino da Encarnação, director of the DIC of Faro and by Gonçalo Amaral the first responsible for the investigation.

Alípio in the wrong place

But it is difficult to hide the actual discomfort in the PJ. "When is the director himself to take the credits to the institution what can we do? Either he is in the wrong place or the PJ will end. We have credits and we are internationally recognised. Statements like this can be transmitted at an internal level but never through the media. Nobody is perfect, but there are persons that cannot spoil things",said to our newspaper a high responsible of the PJ that now is working in the north of the country.

--

With thanks to Li for both articles:

http://www.the3arguidos.net/

09.30am

felicity said...

Hiya Anon amd Morning all

True - proceeds of crime can be confiscated in the UK. Is this why the McCanns are doing their utmost to make sure it is all gone by June as has so clearly been announced to us? This date, they may cynically work out could be around the time they get charged, perhaps?

I do not think it could be said Clarence Mitchell is receiving any of that as he is being paid by the Double Glazing man and not the Fund. He has also been pretty guarded in what he has said on behalf of the McCanns - maybe the police would struggle to say he has aided and abetted them in the strict legal sense but morally we know that he clearly has. He quite obviously puts making his own personal fortune from the death of little Madeleine ahead of being a decent human being. Blood money. Every time he is enjoying some expensive luxury this provides him he will be able to think of her dear little face - that should be a comfort to him...

Viv x

felicity said...

Dolores

Hiya great to hear from you again too.
I am sorry there is no positive news about Mari Luz. How sad the parents even have to sell their home to try and raise reward money. What have the McCanns sold or given up for little Maddie ?? They demand that they should maintain their lifestyle and absolutely everyone should pay to look for Madeleine - bar them...and Gerry gets himself a nice new 4 x 4.

The parents of Mari Luz demonstrate true love and concern for their missing child - as you say it is heartbreaking there are no JK Rowlings or Beckhams to dip in their pockets to help them. How ironic and tragic. Other parents will undoubtedly have to pay the price for Kate and Gerry McCann - causing people to question their style of charity.

What of our own press - why cant they publicise her case and try and help ? Instead we get more farcical and worthless stories from the McCanns endless pool of self-serving spin.

What a sorry world.

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

How I envy you travelling in that fantastic continent with all its cultural and biodiversity - not to mention some lovely heat! Everything from rainforests to deserts with pyramids and so much in between! I hope you are not working to hard and look forward to hearing about your lovely break from Friday in the "outback". I hope you are not working too hard in the meantime, but know you will always give your best for the welfare of little children.

I too read about Christabel and Rosiepops on the Daily Express - are they really two different people or is it one who likes to agree with herself LOL. So, they are determined to forward a secret picture that they cannot tell us about to the PJ. What could this be? I would hazard a guess they found a picture of Madeleine with some "creepy" man in the background - so he must be a paedophile. I see Rosiepops patronizingly writes ..maybe the PJ did not think to look at it from this angle. What! in spite of their best efforts! We have heard many times before they are writing to the PJ. Generally after Christabel has been utilising her "talent for research" by visiting an internet forum, copying some post about paedophiles - a topic she has an unnatural fascination with and adopting this as "fact" that some evil paedophile took Madeleine. Maybe the man in the picture looks "creepy" - well that will make him a paedophile for sure then. Of course us people in the real world appreciate paedophiles exist in all walks of life and do not come with a label or unnaturally large teeth and more than murderers do - oddly enough they can look just like you and me! I am surprised by this stage the police have not arrested them for wasting police time or sent out the doctor and social workers with a view to getting them certified! Rosie really is quite convinced she could tell the PJ how to make a better job of it - goes with her school maam character I suppose.

Great to hear from you.

Luv Viv

felicity said...

I really admire Kodiak - she has a innate sense of goodness and expressing what we all feel about the McCanns, their sycophants on the Daily Express and the revulsion we all feel when read their sick rantings.

If you are reading Kodiak - your voice would be very welcome here:-)

Viv x

DIANEH
05.02.08, 4:28am

Personally if I was the mother of this child I would not want her to have suffered or to have suffered a minimum of pain and torture. (if she was indeed abducted) and the only way she could not have suffered too much would have been to be mercifully taken from this earth.
Do you honestly think for one moment that if this child is still alive she will be be even close to normal, physically or mentally.
Her insides and her mind would have been destroyed. She would have been sentenced to a fate worse than death - a living nightmare. She would be a walking corpse.

Anyone who would wish for a child in this state to return is selfish, self-centred and narcissistic.
I deal with abused children as part of my work and most of these children were abused at an older age than Madeliene and it is not a pretty picture.

If you or the McCanns had any mercy you would not wish Madeliene to have suffered at the hands of paedophiles. The damage is irreparable.

JUSTICE FOR MADELIENE.



• Posted by: Kodiak

Anonymous said...

You lot get sicker by the day.
You are nothing but sad liars the lot of you and this blagg you have going is a laugh a minute here America.
Docmac is the biggest liar out of all, well Mr Butler thinks he's clever.
Now Alsabella knows how to blog properly, at least she has an open mind on this subject.

Anonymous said...

Why is docmac the biggest liar of all? ...are you elle from the 3a site who continually feels the need to make personal and venomous attacks on this poster?

merc

LittleGreyCell said...

Anonymous said...

"You lot get sicker by the day.
You are nothing but sad liars the lot of you and this blagg you have going is a laugh a minute here America.
Docmac is the biggest liar out of all, well Mr Butler thinks he's clever.
Now Alsabella knows how to blog properly, at least she has an open mind on this subject."
ANONYMOUS


I think you have the wrong site, Mark, er, Anonymous. Allow me to redirect you to the DE forum. There are loads of nasty posters on there and I think you'll be feeling right at home before you know it...

Anonymous said...

Must try harder gracy.
Mr John Butler quack of the year
In his dreams
Every word Flic says is lies.
Bet she can't lie straight in bed.
How sad you all look and I'm not even a pro Mc.

felicity said...

Hiya LGC

Thanks for standing in there. Whilst I can of course delete offensive comments oft times I like to leave them. Kind of shows up their little drones for what they are! Whilst I have no doubt this particular little Bark is actually aged 18 years and right here in the UK I would be thrilled if my blog was attracting attention in the States!

At the moment, around 1630 on the DE I see Mark55, Mum21 and Dobywalah are in vulture mode addressing every post to Bestrest. What is it they are so upset about - the suggestion that Kate and Gerry McCann stand accused of killing little Madeleine and disposing of her body. Somehow they seek to deny this, beats me how!

It is nice to see where their little weaknesses lie and who it is that really bothers them! I can understand our dear Docmac doing so, bless him!

Love Viv x

felicity said...

Anon, forgive my ignorance but who the heck is Mr John Butler?

Viv x

felicity said...

Come on Anon, dont be shy! Oh have you popped back to the Daily Express - how nice for you!

Beijinhos e ambracos to you
and Dr Goncalo Amaral for his excellant investigative work!

xxxxx

felicity said...

Ah so this little 18 year old web designer/internet games player knows far more -ummmmm

Well he is good sport when one is a little bored...

Viv xxx



BESTREST
05.02.08, 5:11pm

Actually I questioned Alsabella at length about the necessity to involve Eurojust . IT wasnt necessary but she wouldnt accept it . Seems I was right all along , nothing new there . Probably just more "untruths " weve been fed about this case that the feeble minded have blindly accepted .

• Posted by: mark55


MARK 55
05.02.08, 5:05pm

"Incorrect rogatories". "evidence from them inadmissible"


You seem a little confused.

The Rogatory letters were sent via Eurojust and the UK raised an issue stating they would like them forwarded direct from Portugal which the Portuguese have agreed to do.

The rogatory letters are a list of questions the Portuguese police wish to ask witnesses and suspects. Therefore I hope you will appreciate there is no evidence hear to be rendered inadmissible. I can see law is not your forte:-) Stick to computers - shame about the webpage getting rejected.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Viv,

Oh, you're very welcome! Anytime! :)

I really don't know how these people sleep at night, aggressively defending people who may well be responsible for the disappearance - and worse - of a little girl. And how they are able to name call and bully others who believe that justice for Madeleine should be achieved. Just to save the miserable skins of people who have already lied and accused others and obstructed justice and taken money from little old ladies who can ill afford to give it.

But karma, Viv, doesn't have to be believed for it to do its stuff.

By-the-way, I'm sure your blog IS read in the US! Doesn't take long for word to spread about sites with masses of good quality information.

X LGC

felicity said...

Hiya Niki

Just trying to backtrack and answer a few more posts.

Thanks for the story about Natascha Kampusch whose own mum was wrongly accused of murder. Undoubtedly this does sometimes happen. The thing is with the McCanns we have two well respected police forces both coming to the same conclusions so I guess, like you say, that is where the similarity ends.

That was a very good point you make about Kate McCann. If, Jane Tanner was actually back in her apartment looking after her sick child then the obvious thing to have done would have been to rush next door to Jane and see if she had Maddie there. Thing is Jane and Kate are quite obviously lying in their accounts. As we know, from the waiter Jane never even left the table and how could Jane Tanner have failed to hear all of the commotion with Kate according to Nanny Pennington standing outside the apartment going completely hysterical and yet it took Rachel Oldfield to have to knock and tell her what was going on - absolutely unbelievable. Who on earth advised the McCanns and Jane Tanner to appear on Panorama telling us some more lies - this will be used in evidence against them and what a very clear record it is!

Great to hear from you again

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Sue

Thanks for the report from 24 Horas - unfortunately I have never felt the same about this newspaper since Alsabella (I think it was) explained it is backed by right wingers in America and therefore does not actually give a true and honest Portuguese viewpoint!

I do not see anything wrong with Mr Ribeiro's comments - he was not impling any criticism of his officers - he was merely commenting in an academic way and clearly with the benefit of hindsight about how it would have been better not to constitute the McCanns arguidos at that stage. That is purely because of the quite sickening response of Team McCann and the total lack of co-operation from Kate and Gerry McCann. The talk the talk but just dont walk the walk - they were happy to go back at any stage and help out - but then they will not ...they were happy to take a lie detector test but then patently refuse to do so. They MUST have their arguido status lifted so they can start looking for Madeleine again - how does their legal status stop them looking for her? It certainly would not have stopped me. Tell you what though it would have stopped me from continuing in holiday mode in Portugal - sunbathing, hairdressers and sport would quite definitely been set aside in an all consuming preoccupation with finding my child. Madeleine was never lost to them - just to all the rest of us who care far more than they do.

Great to hear from you and thanks for your regular contributions which are much appreciated.

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya again LGC

I thought the behaviour, once again of the so called "Pro-McCanns" on the Daily Exprss this afternoon was nothing short of appalling. They hunt in little packs, going off for a cuppa and sending the next shift on - all of whom continue to behave like personality disordered little spoilt brats launching personalised attacks upon anyone who dares to criticise their Lord and Mistress McCann - what repulsive people. Yet they dare to preach the discussion should be about Madeleine! Why do we need to remind them that it is always about Madeleine - about bringing her parents to justice and that so sadly, we can do nothing to bring that little angel back. Someone on the DE touched me saying Maddie would like the PJ to find out what happened to her. So touching - so right. I have every confidence that is what they are determined to do - no matter how much these horrible McCann sycophants attack them - they work for the little Angel - not her mom and dad! For their perspicacity in the face of such unbridles adversity they have my unending admiration and true respect.

Karma - yes that is a very calming thought and one to hold on to.

Luv Viv x

Anonymous said...

Hi All.
Bestrest will get the full attention of the McConns on the De because she is cool, calm, professional...and they can't allow that if they are to win with fooling the public.
They want to excite doubt, denial, hatred; everything that would suggest the McCanns and their friends have a unique victim status: the aggressors are depicted as 'victims'.
How unique; how very 21st Century, they are the egocentric generation...if we allow it. We ...the majority...must resist it, imho.
The victim is Madeleine Beth McCann, and every missing or abused child.
The victim needs responsible adults to defend them.
The victim dies for us, dies for what society decides it will defend, and what it chooses to be, for our children, and every child, in my not so humble opinion.

Mark55/Gerry: the chardonnay is on you. Best get a bigger umbrella...and employ smarter girls. Clarry and the girls should stop digging when YOU are in a hole.
G'luck C & G. See you court, pals.

leigh3 said...

Dear Docmac,
I guess it must be some kind of compliment to attract an avid following from the McConns who pursue you even on a forum like this.

I guess you speak the truth, and some people fear the truth.

Kill the messenger - that's an age old trick. Extra Wheetabix for you!
Best wishes to you and yours.
Leigh3

felicity said...

Hi Anon

Thanks for a very well put post - I entirely agree they do want to excite hate, denial and doubt - an indication of how desperate the McCanns are - but nevertheless a ridiculous strategy that has only turned millions more people against them.

Leigh: I am sure Doc will be delighted at such attention when he next gets chance to join us:-)

Nite Nite both

Luv Viv x

Leigh3 said...

Night Viv.
All the very best to you and yours, and thank you for your generosity and courage in setting up your own forum; a calm, and safe place for people to discuss this very sad story. I haven't said that before, so I'll say it now...before I fall off my perch for tonight!
xo
Leigh3

Anonymous said...

01.11GMT for my last post, Leigh3.
By the way, Viv. Am still v angry about the treatment of new DE poster Honey1, so can't take thermonuclear action yet. As the old saying goes: 'Revenge is a dish best served cold.'
I've never been a vengeful person, but somehow now, I'll make an exception. This whole McCann Machine must be stopped, dead in its tracks b4 it claims more victims.

Anonymous said...

An Excellent post by Spudgun, a great piece of investigative journalism, which is a breath of fresh air since the newspapers are so biased in their.
However while the article definitely points to a big campaign to protect the parents by our leaders, something which I cannot understand, it crucially does not point to their guilt. The supposed evidence is in my opinion is far too inconclusive to jump the gun.
There are too many people who for whichever reasons are hellbent in believing that the McCanns are guilty, and are clutching at straws such as supposed evidence which has not been confirmed officially and old comments from reporters such as Jane Hill's. This just leads to a very boring debate where old rumour is constantly being rehashed and stupid stories are put forward for everyone to lap up.
Whatever the status of the McCanns is, guilty or innocent of killing their daughter, this constant speculation does not constitute justice and is more to do with angry mob mentality, why can't people just sit and wait?
If the McCanns are proved innocent, I wonder how little Maddie would feel, seeing her parents having their suffering compounded by so much hate poured on internet forums by complete strangers.
Leaving thir children alone did constitute child abuse, but it does not justify this hate campaign.

Speak your mind said...

please can anyone give me the link for the first ever appeal to the abductor by kate please.I have a body language devotee willing to analyse it.