10 Feb 2008

DRAFT PETITION 10 DOWNING STREET

Comments please!

Viv x

----------------

We, the undersigned members of the British public believe in the rule of law, the unfettered rights of the police to properly investigate crime, the UK's duty under International law to fully co-operate in those investigations with other jurisdictions and the rights of victims of crime to the full protection of the law.

We strongly believe in the human rights of children to full and equitable protection from the law.

We also believe that all parents who may have caused harm to their child should be thoroughly investigated in exactly the way as others regardless of social class, financial backing etc.

We are concerned that in the case of Madeleine McCann British Authorities may be frustrating the rule of law by failing to fully co-operate with Portuguese authorities in their investigation of the parents of Madeleine.

There seems to have been unreasonable delay in the return of forensic analyses from the FSS.

There seems to have been unprecedented assistance offered to the McCanns at the highest levels in spite of early warnings from the Ambassador concerning McCanns' attitude and failure to co-operate with Portuguese Police. There seems to have been disparate treatment to Mr Murat who appeared to receive little or no assistance.

There seems to have been unreasonable delay in offering the Portuguese authorities mutual assistance to continue their investigations with the assistance of British authorities. We are concerned that the intervention of Eurojust appears to have been ousted by UK authorities returning letters rogatory insisting they come direct from Portuguese authorities causing further delay and frustration of this matter.

We are concerned that Portuguese authorities openly complain that the lack of co-operation from British authorities may cause them to abort the investigation. This would be a travesty of justice and a total failure to protect children from harm.

We urge the British government and all organs of the State to fully and promptly co-operate in this matter to bring Justice for Madeleine McCann and thereby all children who suffer serious harm when parents have failed in their duties to protect them from serious harm, or worse.

231 comments:

1 – 200 of 231   Newer›   Newest»
lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Brilliant petition. Every point made so well. Lizzy 11.20am

eureka said...

Hi Viv, if the green light for questioning doesn't appear in the next week or so, I think it would be good to submit this petition to the Downing Street website. Even if it is not approved for publication on the site, a reason has to be given and the point will have been recorded that this matter is causing serious public concern.

dolores said...

Viv ,Excellent petition you have my support.
11.32

felicity said...

Hiya

The Petition had to be reduced in content to 1000 characters and has now been lodged:

autoemail response:

Please click on the link below to confirm that you wish the
Number 10 website to display the petition at the bottom of this
email in your name.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/RIGHTSCHILD/A30mt6D61SItArGpBrBE3C3

Your petition reads:

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Ensure full
co-operation in the investigation of Madeleine McCanns'
parents

In the case of Madeleine McCann British Authorities appear to
be frustrating the rule of law and her human rights by failing
to fully co-operate with Portuguese authorities in their
investigation of the parents e.g.:

A perception of preferential treatment based on class,
financial backing, press manipulation

unprecedented assistance offered to the McCanns in spite of
early warnings concerning attitude and failure to co-operate
with Portuguese Police; disparate treatment with Murat

delay in the return of forensic analyses
frustration and delay in offering the Portuguese authorities
mutual assistance to continue their investigations

intervention of Eurojust appears to have been ousted by UK
authorities returning letters rogatory

Portuguese authorities openly complain that the lack of
co-operation from British authorities may cause them to abort
the investigation. This would be a travesty of justice and a
total failure to protect children from harm.

We urge full co-operation to bring Justice for Madeleine McCann
and thereby all children who suffer serious harm when parents
have failed in their duties to protect them from serious harm
or worse

Thank you for submitting your petition.

[ This email has been automatically sent by the Number 10
petitions system ]

--------

.. it may well be rejected on the basis it concerns an ongoing criminal investigation but even so, will have achieved its purpose in getting the point across and as you say an explanation will have to be provided if it is not listed.

I did give them a link to this site so they can see, it is not just my view.

THANKS


Cheers all
Viv x

Ironside said...

You have my vote viv,,,,only a suggestion..I still think you should post this on 3A's under your own thread...you will reach a wider audience,at the same time giving your blog publicity.....

Am with you all the way viv....until the day we bring her little remains home and put flowers and teddy bears on her final resting place....

We can do it....if we stay strong....there's no stopping us now....

By the way I have been suspended from the DX ( AmI bovvered, do I look bovvered ?) For my opinions on Sharia Law in England....

Anonymous said...

Thanks Viv, brilliant work. I agree with Ironside's suggestion to take it to 3 A's Forum - and all others "a voice for all Forums".

A DM commentator has started one - I think it's www.findmadeleine.com - he posts on 3 A's site. It's the Forum Clarence disassociated himself from recently.

You have my continued support - congratulations on the petition.
2345 (JAB) 12.35 p.m.

felicity said...

Hiya Ironside

I just tried to log in at 3 arguidos to do that but my password didnt work. I find that site very difficult - could you just cut and paste for me?


Please if I ask you oh so nicely?

Got banned by the Daily Express ha ha - anyone reading the ones they dont ban might be a bit surprised! Face bovvered? Know what you mean LOL..most of the decent Pro Madeleine supporters have been banned or just voted with their feet! Funny they picked on you for your views on Sharia law.

Oh that was so lovely - bring that little baby home and put flowers and teddies on her grave - that would be truly wonderful but I trust the Portuguese to look after the little lady now, as Athena said "she is one of us now and we will care for her and protect her" God Bless Her.

Luv Viv x

Anonymous said...

Viv,

May I suggest petition should be sent without delay. The sooner the Government is made aware of public concern, the better for PJ and the case. Rogatory letters were first mentioned (in Forums) before mid December !! 2345 9JAB) 12.37 p.m.

felicity said...

Hi Anon

You may have missed my post above - the Petition has been lodged and I have had an automated email response from 10 Downing Street.

I would urge everyone to also use the facility on that site to email Gordon Brown, Jacqui Smith etc,

There is also a facility on the internet to fax your MP if you google it, If you agree with my Petition you can just copy that or you can put it in your own words.

Also it would be good to email the PJ and give them our support. You can write it in English and Portuguese by going to language on google and getting a translation Ehglish to Portuguese - suggest you send them both so they can easily understand your email.

THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT - THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!
Viv x

Cláudia said...

hey, darking.
How has Luke been feeling lately?
Can I aslo send that? Or is it only for British citizens?
If i can send it, where do I sent it to?
Have a great Sunday.

12:54

felicity said...

Hi Claudia darling

My understanding is it is only British Citizens who can petition the PM, but I may be wrong! If so and my petition gets published I know yu will sign it:-)However, it would be very helpful if you emailed our PM and gave a Portuguese perspective 10 Downing STreet has webpage with link to email PM. Also it would be extremely helpful if you could forward my petition to Portuguese authorities and seek their comments, confirm there are many in the UK who hold this view ..3 arguidos thousands I think! then let us have them.

THANKS DARLING
VIV X

felicity said...

Oh Claudia another thought can you put some contacts on for PJ etc so we can email then:-)

Luv Viv x

Anonymous said...

Viv,

3 A's gave PJ's contact yesterday -
dic.portimao@pj.pt.

Police have overwhelming support of British public. DX reported 3 weeks ago that of 60,000 forum comments 75% were pro Police. In real terms is close to 100% - keyboard monkeys being around 25%.

Statistics upset the 'loonies', DM Forum closed soon after plus DX 'culling' started in earnest.
As predictable as 'pass the parcel' delaying tactis with Rogatory letters.
2345 (JAB).

Ironside said...

Hi Viv..Time 3.10...I have just PM'd BJR she is the owner of the site...telling her of your plan and the best way to handle it...I will post for you...but do not want to take the credit...are you a member ? I am waiting for BJR to get back to me then I shall post...

Ironside said...

O:K: Viv...Its there I will bump it everyday so that it remains on the first page....I am hoping for a good response you have the backing of the owner of the site...Thats a good start...

Ironside said...

I have just checked the petition and it is awaiting approval from No.10. As soon as the approval is approved, I will alter the above title to read please sign now.

_________________
Welcome to the3arguidos....Proud to be part of the Forum

The truth is out there, and maybe, one day someone will speak the truth, if they have any respect for Madeleine.



Viv ...it is 3.30 here in sunny spain....This reply from BJR.....

Ironside said...

could I suggest that people also e-mail David Cameron, while they're at it?

https://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?d ... ct.us.page

He could maybe be awkward and ask a few interesting questions at Question Time.

_________________
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.



This from Romeos Juliet....3Arguidos

You may as well write another petition viv....I will post...in for a penny in for a pound....

Lets get them on the run....

3Arguidos are with you all the way....
Glad Luke is OK...You are a mum to be proud of....and I am sure he knows it.....

Nearly forgot...4 pm

ct1538 said...

Hi Viv and other familiar faces.

I have just posted this on the two DE articles of today concerning ex -police Dai Davies.

I don’t know why this myth continues to perpetuate . Scotland Yard is the headquarters of the Metropolitan Police. It is not some sort of separate and superior crime investigating entity.
It was common in pre-war days for provincial police forces to call on the Met to assist in serious cases, like murder, because they had neither the training nor experience to deal with them. Now all detectives from around the country receive the same training and undergo dealing with similar crimes. No doubt Mr. Davies might wish to consider his ex force superior to any other but the truth is that any force in the country is capable of dealing with a major enquiry. He mentions the ’kidnap and ransom’ squad. What he is referring to is the abduction squad , the majority of whose cases concern hostage taking between drug gangs. Hardly comparable to Madeleines’ case. He alleges a conflict of interest that has occurred with Leicestershires’ police involvement, offering at first support and then investigating the McCanns. This is obviously quite common as the perpetrators of serious crimes, like murder, are often family members.

He claims their innocence without possibly knowing the evidence. A conclusion even further undermined by a quote from his description of his tour of Praia du Luz.


‘’Also, I can now see the McCanns in no way abandoned their kids, as some have suggested. I was amazed at how close their apartment was to the tapas restaurant’’

We all know how inaccurate that statement is.

Lastly, another quote from him in the Guardian, talking of his days as head of The Royal Protection Squad and their relationship with the press.

‘’They cultivated their own contacts among officers of lower ranks who undoubtedly got a good drink out of it at Christmas. But as far as I'm concerned, that's fair game."

Now I interpret the euphemism of a Christmas drink to mean they were paid money to leak information to the press. To me this is corruption and he plainly condoned it.
I wonder if he got a ‘fair game’ for his remarks in this and prior articles.

Good petition Viv, will read more at leisure later. Have to dash.

IRONSIDE and others who may be intereste in Jonbenet.
The Ramsays' and advisors decided that a documentary may be a good idea. Guess the producer who flew from Britain to discuss the idea with them. None other than David Mills of Panorama withdrawal fame.

felicity said...

Hiya 2345 I am emailing the PJ - thanks for the add and will include the DX statistics

Hiya Ironside thanks so much for contacting the owner of 3 arguidos and posting for me. Your efforts and support are really appreciated.

The time now is 15.43 and I just back from a lovely walk in my local woodland. The birds sound excited and the sunshine is beautiful but I bet it is a bit cooler here than Spain!


That was a lovely message from romeos Juliet on the 3 As  Thanks for passing that on! Luke is still slumbering having been out "clubbing" all night! So I will leave him in peace LOL. Clearly he does feel a lot better and is back at work and even been put on a better job when he went back - so is excited about that!

CT - That was a great post which I think everyone will really appreciate. I agree Scotland Yard is not a separate elitist force and clearly there is no conflict of interests with family liaison officers from Leicester belonging to the same force that then investigate the McCanns. As you say most murders turn out to be family members, especially so with children and so this scenario is common. I get the impression there is a perception that contrary to what Clarence recently claimed - British Police think the McCanns are innocent in actual fact Leics police certainly do not think this and there is an attempt to isolate and discredit them in the same way they have attempted to do with the PJ. They have a Detective Superintendent in charge at Leicester - you don’t get that job unless you seriously know your stuff do you and it clearly shows the high priority given to this case. To my mind suggesting they may even be considering murder.

Oh my goodness David Mills, the producer who lost him temper with the BBC because they would not allow him to say on Panorama "the McCanns are innocent" now want to do a documentary for JonBenet's surviving family. He really likes to get on the wrong side of the fence doesn’t he!

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUING SUPPORT ON THIS SITE AND FOR THE PETITION

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE!


Luv Vivx

Ironside said...

David Cameron is not very forthcoming, reply from him when I drew attention to a petition:

Dear **** ********,

Thank you for emailing David Cameron - I am replying on his behalf.

I take on board what you say and we do like to keep up to date with the
range of people's concerns. In practice however it would be overly
proscriptive to dictate at what age children can be left unattended, and
what age person left with them constitutes attended, or for how long,
not least because all children develop at different levels.
In any case the courts do not lack the powers to determine when a parent
has been reckless in abandoning their offspring and prosecuting
accordingly

Thank you again for taking the trouble to write.

_________________
Please deter negligence and consider signing petition
@ http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/AmendChildrenAct/



This was a reply from Cameron....He will have to do better than that....If he wants to be elected....I am going to write again to my MP....and send this reply also...He is a Tory..

This reply was to a poster called Morg....3arguidos....

dolores said...

TO BE CLEARED
FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=DAILY STAR SUNDAY"
ABOVE: The McCanns face 40 questions
10th February 2008
By Jonathan Corke
Your Shout ( 50 )
POLICE are to give Kate and Gerry McCann the chance to clear their names over daughter Maddie’s disappearance.
The couple, who have been official suspects in the case for five months, will be asked by Portuguese detectives to respond to 40 questions.

Sources say that unless there are “screaming contradictions” the couple will be cleared.

Last night the McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell said the sooner they are questioned the better.

He said: “There won’t be any screaming contradictions and hopefully the emphasis can then be put on finding Madeleine, who we believe is still alive.”

Legal letters outlining the 40 questions are to be sent to the Home Office this week. Interviews are then likely to be carried out by detectives from Leicestershire police, the McCanns’ local force.

Speaking exclusively to the Daily Star Sunday, Gerry’s brother John McCann said that making the couple arguidos had “led people into a cul de sac”.

He said: “Any sensible person realises Madeleine was abducted.

“We didn’t anticipate being in this position after nine months.”

Barcelona-based Metodo 3, the private investigation firm working for the McCanns, currently has ten men “on the ground” in Praia da Luz searching for the four-year-
old.


Hi Viv
I think we should now call you 'wonder woman'...lol
I think it is a good idea Viv to email David Cameron I was thinking the same when I read your petition.
You sound refreshed after your walk.
xx
PS I think we should consider sueing Clan McCann for the stress,etc., they have caused us lol

Cláudia said...

Hello, Viv and all.

Thanks for everything you're doing regarding this case.

Here are some of PJ's email addresses:

directoria.lisboa@pj.pt

directoria.faro@pj.pt

dic.portimao@pj.pt

Anonymous said...

Has anyone thought of organising a trip to PDL? It could be so nice and everyone could finally meet in person.
We could all see for ourselves where the events took place and check the actual distace from the tapas bar to the apartment and the path where bundleman was supposedly seen.
Seeing the place for real would give a whole new perspective.
The weather in Portugal is great now spring is approaching and the food is fantastic and cheap.

felicity said...

Ola Claudia you are wonderwoman! I was just doing a post saying I got the wrong email add for PJ and look up and you put them all for me - will send to all three!!

Fantastic - love you loads meu amiga!

I do want them to know how pleased with are with all their hard work and our concern they are being frustrated in trying so hard to bring justice for the little one! and that we are trying hard to do something about that!

Hiya again Ironside and thanks for that..I would not hold my breath but will try!

Dolores - more spin - dont they make you sick!

Luv Viv x

yogaden102 said...

Hi Ironside

I recently wrote a very long letter to David Cameron regarding Madeline, pointing out Clarance's Spin, The Mirror forum closure, Gordon Browns involvement, delay in letting PJ return to question Tapas 9 and lots lots more that I had read on this and many other forums, and got a one line reply from him

"Your comments have been noted and taken on board"

Read into this what you will.

Yogaden102

felicity said...

Hiya yogaden

I never would vote tory or expect them to be caring people! I think that response is pretty typical.

Thanks a lot for sharing that with us.

Viv x

Anonymous said...

Another good Downing street petition; Most of them are children too.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/killingblackboys/

The number of young black boys killed in this country during 2007 has reached double figures -- 17 in total, 13 in London alone. How easy is it to remember any of their names? Not easy at all because after the initial knee-jerk from the media, the Police and sadly the politicians, business-as-usual is resumed with an unholy rapidity. This is frightening, given that these institutions help to influence and shape people’s opinion of their worth in society.

Contrast Madeleine McCann's disappearance over 100 days ago and the horrendous killing of young Rhys Jones a day ago. Some newspapers dedicated 11 pages to Rhys' story and there is wall to wall TV coverage. This is as it should be. BUT IT SHOULD BE THIS WAY FOR ALL VICTIMS, NOT JUST WHITE VICTIMS.

In a country which would have us believe it values black young people as highly as white young people, if any good can come out of the horrendous killing of Rhys Jones, it will be that it acts as the catalyst for these key institutions (media, Police and Government) to stop ignoring the slaughter of young black men. Treat them with the same dignity you give to Madeleine and Rhys.

felicity said...

Hiya all - as it is quiet on here I have just been reading the Daily Express and thought I would share the delightful Dr Val's sharp acid wit:

DOVE
10.02.08, 3:20pm

I prefer to think of them as keyboard slugs. Monkeys are intelligent, but I've never yet read of an intelligent slug...... Also, they can be dispensed with by a heavy dusting of salt.....

• Posted by: Dr_Val

Hope you all have a laugh and enjoy it as much as I did:-)

Vivx

PS Thanks Dr Val! People are clearly so fed up on the Daily Express with the tireless rants of a certain one who goes under the guise of Rosiepops - you must brighten them all up with such a simple solution rather than getting annoyed with R!

Ironside said...

A quick question....does anyone remember ...did the vatican remove the mccanns from their website before they were made arguidos....Alsabella will know this....Starters for 10...please..

Atardi said...

Goodevening everyone,

Do you also have problems with the DE site?

Has the current article been deleted?

Atardi said...

I forgot the time: 21.20

Atardi said...

Sorry,

The site is available again.

Dutch time: 21.34

Irina said...

Hello everyone,
I think we are facing a wall of silence from gov officials till the things will turn one way or another.

I have send an e-mailto Home Office regarding who is responsible for processing rogatory letters (on Thursday last) and did not receive any reply. Last time it took only 1 and a half hour to say that it was not their matter.

Conservatives are not really concern about one tiny life (of Madeleine), they as any politicians are concerned about elections. Not much hope there unless it will be for sure that it could bring Labor down.

There is no decency left to appeal to. It should be shroud tactics, like Clarence's ones.

Any Mafia connections?

I put my fate in Portugal. You are the only hope.

Ironside, you said it all: bring remains of a little unfortunate mate to home land and give last respect! - is everybody’s task!

Anonymous said...

Bring remains of a little unfortunate mate to home land and give last respect!
What an awful thing to say. It makes me sick to the core.

Irina said...

And you are sick.

Irina said...

Anyway there was something I was going to say for a while.
Those parents treated poor Madeleine as their property; whatever they did with her by their thought did not concern anyone. They treat her as a property after death as well. As no one have rights to speak on her behalf or care about her.
That is an illusion. Madeline was a human being one of us. She did not belong to UK people only either. She is not first and for most daughter of Quinn subject or English speaking person, first and for most she was a human, a person, like you and me. And she was killed (intentionally or not is to the court to decide). My and every human being right is to seek the justice for her. Not for her parents. I do not give a dam for parents. They might as well not exist. A human being lost life because the other human beings.
The task is to bring those to justice and give Madeleine's remains last respect.
In fact I think that Portugal would be more appropriate place to bury her, due to the care they showed.

Cláudia said...

You're welcome, dear friend! :-)
Muitos beijinhos!

felicity said...

Hi Irina

I see we had one of those McCann nasties on here who does not even think Madeleine deserves a decent burial. "it makes me sick to the core" - was that not the exact phrase used by Gerry McCann on Panorama - when speaking of these supposed predators who had been watching them and ..

although that remark is very offensive to sensitive minded and caring people I will leave it posted - lest anyone should forget the sick mentality of what we are dealing with here. I agree to them Madeleine is not a human being to be treated with respect she is a piece of property that can make them lots of money and people must account to Gerry for any money they make as Clarence Mitchell has often pointed out. The man is pure evil.

There is a lull in the news at present, the only thing that punctuates it is pure desperate rubbish from Team McCann. Every Sunday Clarence makes another "great revalation" to the press.

The PJ will be coming and they will get just what they deserve for what the did to their little girl who we care far more about than they ever did.

I dont care what happens to them either Irina so long as they face justice and get convicted. Then it will be a matter for the courts as to appropriate punishment, but for murder it is of course a mandatory life sentence - meaning at least 14 years and then release on life licence subject to supervision and possible recall. I believe this is an appropriate punishment for Gerry McCann - all he has ever wanted to do was get rich and famous from the death of his daughter - he is evil and repugnant to normal parents and his wife is not a lot better IMO. If she had a shred of decency she would tell the PJ what happened intead of trying to put on a sorrowful look for the cameras.

Viv x

felicity said...

Ola minha querida Claudia!

Good to hear from you.

Dorme bem
Com amor
Beijinhos!
Viv x

dolores said...

HiViv
THIS IS LONDON.....10/02/2008

Kate and Gerry McCann's private detectives are charging the Find Madeleine fund £50,000 a month in expenses, it was revealed yesterday.
The costs charged by Spanish agency Metodo 3, appointed in September to find the missing girl, are on top of its £8,000 monthly fee - which is paid by one of the couple's wealthy supporters.
Metodo 3's expenses are the biggest single cost to the fund, which collected £1.2million in donations, but is expected to run dry within months.
It was previously thought that the agency was hired for a flat monthly fee of £50,000.
But it agreed £8,000 a month, plus unlimited expenses to take on the case, which has boosted its profile.
If its "operational costs" top £50,000 the excess is met by the McCanns' wealthy backers, such as double glazing tycoon Brian Kennedy. He is to review Metodo 3's six-month contract before it expires next month.
Madelein McCann: Missing since May 3rd 2007
The couple's spokesman Clarence Mitchell said the agency was "doing valuable work on the ground".
He added: '"The £50,000 is for legitimate operational costs, having people scattered around different countries.
"The fund contributes £50,000 a month of publicly donated money because it's money to help find her. We feel that's proper use of that money."

dolores said...

Viv.
CM, appears to have changed his story again, If you remember not that long ago,he said Brian Kennedy was paying the £50,000 a month, and next day on G's blog he said the fund was pying the £50,000
There is something going on here,I am sure of it.

XXX

Irina said...

Thank you Viv.
I am sure whatever we will hear next, Madeleine will be revenged.

It is all very quite from officials.
Clarence say there will be no contradictions. Is he is so sure that everyone of T7 is ready to sell the soul to the devil? As soon they will speak (and they will) the only thing to not contradict the evidence will be to admit the murder. Kate will get off though with mental illness.

dolores said...

GERRY'S BLOG /DIARY
Type....'pamalam' ... on google
If you go to the 3rd entry on the website it will give G's blogs from day 1 plus lots of photo's and video's'etc.,

www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/-31k
It's cached and I had difficulty getting it to you direct.

Cláudia said...

Sleep well, all.
Muitos beijinhos, querida Viv.
Justice for MADELEINE!

Nurgis said...

Dear Viv

Hi Iceland calling former Aral
now Nurgis.
Thanks to Ironside that I have found you.
You have my vote. Voted from the
3A forum again thanks to Ironside!

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Found this on the Mccann files, Gerry's blog dated june 11th........11 Jun 07 39 "We were extremely disappointed in the publication of the anonymous letter in The Telegraaf claiming to know where Madeleine is buried.

"Although all information will be taken seriously, we were very upset that the credibility of this letter had not been examined and, more importantly, it was published before the Portuguese police had an opportunity to investigate the claim and search the area, if appropriate, without massive media attention.

"We feel strongly that this was an irresponsible piece of journalism and even if it were true it is insensitive and cruel. One can imagine how upsetting it is for Kate and I to hear of such claims through the media and if every piece of information was published like this there would be nothing else in the newspapers."

* There is some debate about the blog for this day, in which Gerry refers to the anonymous letter sent to The Telegraaf. He wasn't informed about this letter until the afternoon of 12 June and it wasn't actually published until 13 June. This particular blog was later deleted. It's also curious that it appears in quotation marks as though dictated to someone, or as if prepared as a press release.
Lizzy 09.11am

lizzy said...

Viv,
Found that piece on Gerry's blog on Mccann files site, thought it highly relevant especially as it has now been deleted.Sorry meant to say on post I sent earlier...
lizzy 09:14am

Ironside said...

Hi Lizzy,,,,,you have to laugh,since when has gerry not wanted media attention....
A poster on the3A's this morning said that a member of her family works for the mail...and that the order came from high above that certain things were not to be reported about the mccanns....
Poster does not know who or why this is happening...ditto her family member....

Anonymous said...

Hello Viv & Everyone,

Good news - the following has just appeared on 3 A's:

"Paulo Rebelo on TV last night"
Apparently he asked PT citizens to believe in PJ and that the case will NOT BE SHELVED - and - next Wednesday we will understand the reasons for the expression of PJ Director." 2345 (JAB) 10.20 a.m.

lizzy said...

Ironside,
I know Gerry has lapped up media attention from the start, with regards to the Mail and other papers, t is obvious that Clarrie is there feeding them all this rubbish they print daily. I think too it is increasingly obvious that the Government do not want these 2 charged. It may be for as simple a reason that they have backed them from the start and do not want to appear to have poor judgement or could be something more ,hence they were always to be accompanied by a government official when being questioned. The whole case has been conducted in my opinion bizarrely from the outset and I just hope that the PJ come over her, and do their jobs unhindered by any interference. 10.50am

dolores said...

Lizzy
Here is a follow up to your post.

Day 42 - 14/06/2007 - Thursday
Six weeks since Madeleine disappeared. We believe Madeleine is alive and I am glad to say that following yesterday's letter in the Telegraaf (Netherlands) there has been no evidence that Madeliene is in the area indicated although there will be further searches tomorrow.
11.42
xx

lizzy said...

Dolores,
How stupid is that man, but how odd his blog of the 11th June was about the letter he wasn't informed of until the 12th June and wasn't printed until the 13th June, so the question is how did he know? Unless he or somebody else perhaps were responsible?
lizzy 11.31am

felicity said...

Hi there Dolores

Thanks for this is London - that is good article.

I agree there certainly appears to be something very awry going on about payments to Metodo 3. Both Doc and I have previously suggested the supposed £50,000 per month the Fund is paying looks like an incidence of laundering money back to the McCanns. When a story keeps changing i.e. the Fund is paying, Kennedy is paying, they are both paying etc, it is a sure indicator they are trying to cover their tracks. IMO they will be prosecuted for fraud also. It is also fraudulent to pay a disreputable agency who have agreed to publicise the myth Maddie was taken by paedophiles and I think Mr Marco could also be in big trouble for receiving monies in those circumstances and perverting the course of justice/wasting police time. The cashing in is almost as repugnant as the original offence and is a serious aggravating feature to that offence. Aggravating features increase the punishment that is appropriate. Gerry McCann could get consecutive terms of imprisonment for different offences putting him away for a very long time.

Irina

I do not think Kate will get off because of her mental health, but she may be treated with more leniency. If the original police case is correct (which somehow I doubt) that she killed Maddie in a fit of temper due to her mental ill health - they would have been very wise to immediately admit because I think it is quite possible she would not have gone to prison at all. Now there have been a lot of lies told and they have lost that opportunity. Most people in UK with mental health problems still get sent to prison. If they have killed someone and were extremely mentally ill to the point of really not knowing what they were doing they can be committed to secure mental hospital for treatment. This can be worse than prison and mean they are never released and I doubt Kate is that ill. The complicating factor of course is it would seem they will be tried and sentenced in Portugal but she could then be handed over to the UK authorities.

Lizzy you are an absolute star! I read you on DE last night disclosing the Leicester Police officer saying it is ridiculous to suggest a third police force should now investigate this case.

2345
"Paulo Rebelo on TV last night"
Apparently he asked PT citizens to believe in PJ and that the case will NOT BE SHELVED - and - next Wednesday we will understand the reasons for the expression of PJ Director." 2345 (JAB) 10.20 a.m.

WHAT FANTASTIC NEWS!!! I have always had a really good feeling about Mr Rebelo! I think there is enough concern for me to have done the petition but I still believe these two (and maybe others!) are going to trial.

Great to hear from you all 12.22

Viv x

felicity said...

Lizzy

I think Gerry and Co have realised there is much evidence against him in the blogs he has written and yes there have been so many deletions.

What about the new web page with no archive of his previous blog at all! This is not the idea of a blog is it - everyone can read back on hear everything from when I started last December..Gerry always has so much to hide - just another example of it. The police will have all of it and I read it cover to cover from a link a few months back!

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv /Lizzy
What about this !!!
MADDY: NEW CALL FOR SCOTLAND YARD PROBE
11.02.08, 12:07pm
Dai Davies first surfaced in late September 2007 declaring he had been in PDL for a week carrying out his own investigation coming to the conclusion that the McCann’s were innocent & that 1 of the 4 theories he came up with was Madeleine was snatched by an opportunist paedophile. He only planned to abuse her but panicked, possibly strangled her and took the body. Profile: White male, 20-35, single, lives with mother. Known to police, knew resort. Which points the finger at Robert Murat. Great you think until you discover that he had no cooperation from the PJ or had direct contact with the McCann’s so where did he get his information from?. He answers that himself in one article apparently he speaks regularly with Clarence Mitchell.......I think now we know that this article has been sponsored by Team McCann & should therefore be treated with suspicion as to its impartiality.
• Posted by: Munch49 • Report Comment

lizzy said...

Dolores,
That is interesting but not unexpected. Obviously Clarrie at the back of this headline like so many. Well soon they will have to stop this spin as imagine the questioning will take place soon.
Clarrie is so transparent, thanks for that info Dolores. Lizzy 13.09pm

Lizzy said...

Viv,
Must ask how is your son now?
Is he better? My daughter had an abscess a few years ago at the base of her spine and had it removed , she had a huge hole in her back for months and had to have it packed daily by a nurse.
I know your son didn't have the same but anything like that is horrible for them, hope he is feeling better now. LIZZY 13.12PM

Anonymous said...

Viv & Dolores,

Experience has long since taught the public that every word uttered by camp McCann is fictitious - designed to mislead and confound.

I believe Metado 3 have never received the extortionate sums reported; they're a front for syphoning Fund proceeds. this is their forte, not search and rescue.

I spent some time yesterday reading back info on 3 A's site. I strongly advise you to check out "Thenthenwere4". Incredibly resourceful, intelligent person on each and every aspect. Of particular interest was Gerry's return in (I think) early June; the same visit as he reportedly lost his wallet.

In a nutshell, Gerry was asked to attend a poorly passenger during flight from Luz to Gatwick. ? legitimate as for legal reasons flight crew need proof of anyone saying they're a GP. etc. etc. TTW4's well founded, logical theory was broadly that this was the means by which Gerry brought Madeleine's body back to Britain in 'missing' sports bag. It's rivetting reading. By feigning illness, a passenger friend was met at Gatwick by ambulance, attended by Gerry whose baggage was loaded into the ambulance with the 'poorly' passenger. Thus bypassing normal checking procedures. The 'patient' and Gerry diembarked the ambulance at Royal East Surrey Hospital with bags. Whilst it obviously took courage, TTW4 illustrates genius, plausible planning. It makes sense that Madeleine would be brought back to England for final burial. Freemasons apparently own a lot of land in the Rothley area. Around 9 September BBC and reporters were sent to the wrong church for McCanns' attendance at special Mass Service - held at a Chapel (frequented by Freemasons) as opposed to their local RC Church. TTW4 so sharply observed that after the service on 9 September Kate abandoned her ritualistic carrying of cuddlecat.

TTW4 shows deep psychological insights and razor sharp intelligence. Kate's injuries - TTW4 interprets her plea "If you have her, please don't hurt her or scare her, please keep her safe and tell someone where she is" -as a plea not to a non existent abductor, but rather Gerry & O'brien who removed and hid her body. TTW4 suggests they kept this from her because her emotional state made her untrusworthy. He also pointed out the bruising on arms and wrist showed Gerry's need to 'restrain' a highly overwrought Kate.

TTW4 says Kate is more religious than Gerry - he refers to many family members saying 'we want her home'. I have merely sketched TTW4's indepth, intelligent study. Having read it, I no longer think Madeleine is lying abandoned in Portugal. If any of you have time, TTW4 is well worth a read. It opened my mind to many unanswered PR gimmicks - missing wallet, bag etc. I'll try and find the link and post it. Getting Madeleine back to England before defence by media makes sense from psychological and criminal aspects.
"Find THE body and charge us" - not likely if it was repatriated in early June. 2345 (JAB)1.30pm

dolores said...

Jab
Thanks for that, I think quite a few of us had surmised that Madeleine was not in PDL, especially his defiant comment ''find the body....''
He is the most obnoxious person I have ever come across, I hope to God they put him away for a lifetime.Smug smarmy b.....d.
I wonder if the UK & PJ are on to this? Could be that is why PJ are not wasting precious man hours, to look in PDL for her.(Just a thought)

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

Luke is fine - there is a lump in the tube in his teste which got infected but does not need surgery it can just be left although he goes for further check on 15/2 as thy did not have scan report last time he went. He went clubbing all night on sat so obviously not bothering him now and is back at work. Thanks for asking after him. The experience you describe sounds horrifying. I have had three cysts surgically removed. One when Luke was quite little, I think he was 5 0r 6, on the side of my forehead. His teacher rang me to say are you alright because Luke is crying at school you have a big hole in the side of your face! It was a small hole that had been sewn up but he still loves me just as much!

Some fascinating posts including the ambulance theory and I agree with the comments re Kate. I have always had visions of her being so horrified by the disposal of Maddie's body and yes that could explain the bruises - everyone seems to forget the worse one though on the tip of her elbow - check it out..severely bruised - it is the pic on here where she is walking along on her mobile and is a really bad bruise - looks to me like she got grabbed and then flung landing on her elbow.

Speaking of really clever posters I just read the DE and always really enjoy Wizards posts who has a psychological qualification - check this one out: This person's posts are always worth looking at !

COMMENTS REGARDING DOGMAD'S POST ON TODAYS OTHER POST SITE
11.02.08, 1:43pm

Dogmad 11.29 Post

Hi Dogmad,
Your earlier post makes a lot of sense. The help of Brown and even the people who donated to the Madeleine fund were if you like “sucked in” because they believed the McCanns' to be innocent in all of this. The multi-millionaires who likewise became involved I’m sure felt this was a good marketing strategy for themselves and their products to become involved with. With a good outcome to the case they would in turn receive untold free adverting/pr worth far more than the money they were putting up and, therefore, it all made sense and was good business. However, the tide began to turn and that’s left the financial backer in a difficult position. They would either have to back down admitting they were wrong or continue in the hope that throwing more money in could turn the tide in their favour. This is probably what we are seeing, it isn’t the power of the McCanns, who seem to be manipulating everything including the press, it’s their backers who would lose face and who would see a detrimental impact on sales of their products. After all if the Mc’s are guilty these backers would have been seen to openly support child killers and in no way does this give positive advertising to them or their products.

I think the backers are not only pumping money in but they are also calling in favours to turn the situation around to, what for them, would be a more palatable and positive outcome. These men are very rich and have the financial clout to turn things around to their advantage.

I think it might be worth pointing out that very successful entrepreneurs have many of the traits of a psychopath. By that I do not mean they go around killing people, but they can remain focused on their needs without the empathy, compassion and guilt that prevent most of us becoming like them.


• Posted by: wizard

felicity said...

2345 sorry for the confusion - I know you got the post about the ambulance etc. RAther busy today so just briefly popping in for a read!

Dolores - obnoxious indeed!

Viv xx 14.49

Anonymous said...

Viv,

Thanks for wizard's post, I always enjoyed his comments on DE Forum.
I agree with his view with financial backers not wanting 'egg on their face'. However, the Government's direct involvement in a criminal investigation is unprecedented. The most dangerous in terms of face saving action necessary. I keep plugging an important point in all of this; minister's are as answerable to the Police as the rest of us. At least two of Labour ministers have been investigated by the Police in the cash for honours scandal and Peter Haine's undisclosed receipt of money. I believe those hindering Police procedures should also be investigated and sacked. Peter Haine resigned for flouting rules.

I've been reading about your son's health issue; as one mother to another may I take the liberty of suggesting daily intake of Vitamin C (500 mgs) combined with zinc. Low zinc levels are a common cause of the problem he's suffering. Recommended combo for good health in that area !! 2345 (JAB).

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but don't buy the theory of Maddies body brought back in bag and the sick passenger scenario...much too risky.

I believe Maddie is stil in Portugal.
merc. 15.14

Anonymous said...

Well said merc, probably in a villa very close to the apartment she was taken from

dolores said...

Well there's a mighty fine chapel and we all know that Kate has a soft spot for anyone in a cassock or religous vestements.The devil himself couldn't keep her out.

Would be handy for popping over just to make sure everythings alright if Madeleines body did end up there.Less than half a mile from their place I reckon.I notice from the map that Templars Way is just over the road from the Rothley Court Hotel.There's no doubting the Masonic overtures such a name conjures up.Those houses were newly built within the last 12 years or so,perhaps the land used to be owned by The Templars/Masons and the road naming a consequence of that connection.

The Templars have a long tradition of owning land in this part of the UK,hence the Chapel and Court.The land would be viewed as sacred by followers of The Templars even sacrosanct,what better place to bury Madeleines body,the daughter of a local believer,than on 'Holy Land' ?

From The Scotsman 12 September 2007

Ironside said...

Hi Viv....People are trying to sign the petition....BJR is bumping to keep you on the front page...She said she ia Awaiting Approval...then will tell everyone to sign.....

Have you heard anything yet...? silly question you would have said.....

2345....Whats with the (JAB) have I missed something?...Is it a joke between you and Docmac...?

Everyone should take Vit C and Zinc and Selenium also for women B12....So says my sister....

Niki said...

Kalispera/God kveld/Buenos tardes/Good evening all!

Viv, only British citizens are allowed to sign any petition at 10 Downing Street...

Want you to know that you have my support anyway, and hope you get it approved!

Thank you all for all the informative posts and for not giving up hope for justice!

Have a nice evening!
Niki
20.44 Greek time

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Glad to hear Luke is better now and going clubbing, great news.
Re Gerry's omment Find the body and prove we did it, I have always thought from that remark that he says that with confidence of somebody who knows it will never be found, it is possible that the body was brought back to Britain as Gerry made several trips for a day or two at a time, I remember once when he was going to Scotland for one night, and was pictured leaving with a large suitcase I wondered why he would need that, so you never know I suppose. I read some time ago on the 3 arguidos a poster saying he has a friend who is in the Met and when asked his opinion on the case is alleged to have said oh we all think that the parents are responsible and the body is back in Britain. I suppose it is possible. Lizzy 18.46

lizzy said...

Dolores
I think I remember reading there is a chapel near the Rothley Hotel used by Freemasons,I think it was on the 3 arguidos, will have a look and see if I can find it. The article linked the hotel to Freemasonery in some way too.
18.51pm

dolores said...

Hi Lizzy,
I found this for you.
A Warm Welcome to Rothley Court Hotel.
Rothley is a quiet village to the east of Charnwood Forest. Rothley Court is a stunning manor house hotel with idyllic manicured grounds, a beautiful trout filled river and an ancient chapel.

Rothley Court itself is a rambling manor, with beautiful gardens, steeped in history and concepts of freedom. The Knights Templar used Rothley Court and the 13th century chapel in the building can still be visited.

Lord Macaulay was born at the court in 1800, a place frequented by William Wilberforce in the 18th century working with the owner Thomas Babington on the campaign to abolish the Slave Trade


A little extra for you.

In 1988 Rothley was involved in a cricketing controversy, when then-captain Mike Gatting was accused by The Sun and Today newspapers of improprieties with a barmaid at the Rothley Court Hotel.[7] These accusations led to the sacking of Gatting as captain, despite his protestations of innocence.

xx 19.27

lizzy said...

Dolores,
Thanks for that interesting post, I found this on the 3 arguidos, it is referring to 11/09/07, evidently the Sacred Heart, the Mccanns local parish church had a special mass for them but they were not there. It is thought they were here.......PRAYERS were said for Madeleine McCann and her family during a Mass at their local chapel yesterday."

Where is this "their local chapel" that said prayers for Madeleine Mccann?

The Rothley Court Hotel has a private chapel,in fact it's the only chapel in the village and now it's Kate and Gerrys local Chapel,how come?
The chapel is intended for use by the Masons and members of The Rothley Lodge,it's their 'local chapel' no one elses.

Prayers were said in the private chapel in Rothley at The Rothley Court Hotel.We are not told of the nature of these prayers only that they were for Madeleine Mccann,was it a memorial service perhaps or could it have been a funeral service ?

As it was held in the private chapel I guess we'll never know.

lizzy 19.32pm

lizzy said...

Dolores,
Just posted that last post from the 3 arguidos as is interesting, obviously it is speculation, but is odd they would snub the local Catholic church for the Masons chapel as they are both supposed to be devoted Catholics..
Lizzy 19.35PM

isis said...

evening all,got back to the land of the livivng today. amazing how 3 days of bbread and black tea can enhance clarity.Left a post on the DE for any pros to answer,didnt get a response. I questioned that if those who refute the dna evidence and the reaction of highly trained dogs,who have no agenda,were to be presented with the same evidence that would back up their abduction scenario would they be that quick to dismiss it.

dolores said...

Hi Lizzy
Interesting is it not,I think they used 'devout catholic' to tug a the media heart strings, and it served he purpose of the visit to the Pope. It also got them the support and attention of the residents of PDL.Who got taken in and believed them.Cuddle Cat came in useful for that also.
xxx

felicity said...

Hiya 2345 - thanks so much for the advice re luke zinc and vit c - I will certainly try that and already have some zinc tabs which I take. Mind you the way the little devil swigs the fruit juice and eats all the apples not sure he is low on vit c!

Ministers are answerable and accountable to parliament, rather than the police, that is part of our unwritten constitution but of course if they commit a criminal offence can be investigated. There are so many instances of expenses fraud the police should well and truly clamp down. It is sickening when we hear of rich people defrauding countless thousands of tax payers money. There is no mercy for benefit cheats who are (usually) hard up people. Why should there be mercy for rich thieves because that is all they are and they don’t even have an excuse of being hard up! They are just greedy self-indulgent people..reminds me of the McCanns!

Viv x
20.18

Dylan said...

Hi all,

Flying vist! Signed the petition. It reads very well vv, well done!

There's been a wealth of information on here, as always. Thank you all of you great contributors. Bugger all in my usual news sources. Sick of buying the express now and shan't bother anymore. They use any news they can to worm out a slagging off against the Labour Party. I don't mind political views but it's all written in such a tacky, sensationalistic way and it makes me feel like a low-life just reading it! Today, the Maddie article just said something about the case being shelved again and showed a picture that a pop arstist had made of maddie out of stamps!

Ah well. Such is life. I'm overloaded with work for the rest of the month now and looking forward to March!

Glad Luke is well Viv. That's brilliant!

Take care all,

Luv Dylan x

felicity said...

HIYA Ironside

I have just received an email and the Petition has been rejected. I do not think it would be worth editing it and re-submitting it in the circumstances. Email reads:


Hi,

I'm sorry to inform you that your petition has been rejected.

Your petition was classed as being in the following categories:

* The names of individuals, or information where they may be
identified, in relation to criminal accusations

* Issues for which an e-petition is not the appropriate
channel

If you wish to edit and resubmit your petition, please follow
the following link:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/RIGHTSCHILD/BNanYpEWDAiTBslCfZAojmU

You have four weeks in which to do this, after which your
petition will appear in the list of rejected petitions.

Your petition reads:.......



I dont know whether you have all see this Press Statement from No 10 which I just found on their site:
Morning press briefing from 11 September 2007Briefing from the Prime Minister's Spokesman on: Cabinet, Iraq, NHS, Economy, McCann Investigation and Downing

McCann Investigation Asked if the Prime Minister was happy with the conduct of the police investigation in Portugal, the PMS replied that the Prime Minister believed that, as the Home Secretary made clear, this was an ongoing police investigation. As and when support and help was requested from the British Police, obviously the British Police would act in a fully cooperative way. But it would be inappropriate to comment further on what was an ongoing police investigation.

Asked if the Prime Minister had any sense of regret over the contacts which he had had with the McCann family, the PMS replied that the McCann Family had been provided with support through the Foreign Office in a consular way. Put that the Prime Minister had had personal contact with the family and did he regret that, the PMS replied that the Prime Minister did not regret his contact with the McCann family, but this was an ongoing police investigation and would be unwise to say anything more.

leigh3 said...

Hi All,
2345: we agree, as usual; saw your post here, below this headline.
Viv: the 1000 word version is better by miles :-) Well done for your usual methodical perseverance.
Dolores of the pink rose: hiya. Still in pursuit of truth? There's no stopping you, is there :-)
Ta ra, sweeties. Always a pleasure to check in here, and see the debate is on track.
Boo hoo, Clarence. Stalinism doesn't work anymore, does it mate?!
Ab fab. Well done all Friends of Maddie, and every child. Time tells all if we wish it to be so, in my not so (!) humble opinion...
Leigh3 20.35GMT

Ironside said...

Hi Everyone ,This could be something or nothing...There is a poster on the threeA's looking into Mitchels actions, his name Michael Robinson...He is looking for proof...I have mentioned that it was Mitchel that told gerry about the dogs coming over from england and that he warned him his phones were bugged.....I have seen this report, but cant remember where.....can anyone help....

If you can think of anything where you know Mitchel has lied or perverted the course of justice, please post to this poster....even if you think it may be something small....just post.....

as I said he could just be another poster...or something more....

dolores said...

Viv'
I am so sorry your petition was rejected, what a disapointment.
I know you were not to opptimistic about it anyway,but always hopeful.
Never mind sweetie,we will carry on regardless as her voice,never let the b......s grind you down.
luv D
xx

Irina said...

Hello everybody. Interesting posts on the Chapel.
I do not regard McCann caring enough to take the risk and comfort their daughter in death, as they never did in life.

My take on them would be that their task was to get rid of the body as soon as possible with the minimum risk and with no possibility to recover the body.
To bury in the ground, to burn, to dump into the sea.They dumped little Madeleine into the sea.
The only hope to find Madeleine is for their accomplices (I am sure they had somebody to help) to be found and to get them talk.
I think as well PJ know what happen to Madeleine's remains.
Mcs were under heavy surveillance.

leigh3 said...

Viv,
Don't give up. Exclude name of McCanns. Submit petition again. Use term 'individual family' instead of McCann.
As your last post shows: Gordon Brown is being asked direct questions about his involvement with McCanns, and his answers will be seen as feeble, under the circumstances. Sometimes, the feeble response is most revealing in political terms.
Persevere, Viv. If anyone wants to lie or obfuscate about the case of missing Maddie, then they should have their feet put to the fire. Do not make it easy for them.
Go on, girl. You know you can do this. Journalists can be dismissed by the Ministry of Truth at Number 10 as part of the usual combatants.
The public cannot be dismissed so easily, so cynically.
I hope you submit your petition again...and again...and again. Bang on that door at Number 10.
I hope other posters on your site here will do the same, and email Justice Minister Jack Straw, their local MPs, and child protection agencies like the NSPCC, plus write to the General Medical Council, and the UK Charity Commissioners over the issue of employed doctors raising money from the public and using it to assist their family finances whilst they are suspects in a criminal inquiry.
Ta ra, hun. Good luck. It's worth it. xo
Leigh3 20.48GMT

leigh3 said...

Irina,
Yes: 'they' know. I agree with you. Proving it in a criminal court is much harder. However, the 'leaks' seen in the Press will become a tsunami, in time, in my opinion. Time. Time is what is needed now, and the patient, perseverance, and goodwill of the inquiring public who have nothing to gain or lose from this case except the desire for the truth to be known...just as responsible adults should do, for the sake of the young, and future generations. Where will they be if we do not ask awkward questions,legitimate questions, and try to make the world a better place?
Ta ra for now, our Russian friend of truth, and progress.
Leigh3 20.54GMT

felicity said...

Hi Dolores

I am not down about it - it was expected, but I think the gesture was symbolic and think it is likely this will reach GB. That is the important thing.

I think it is unfortunate in the press statement dated 11 September above Gordon Brown's representative states he does not regret his personal contact with the McCanns. He must surely realise that people are going to take umbrage with such remarks. I do not want to do anything to take forward any sort of right wing conspiracy against the labour party because I have been devout labour all my life and dislike everthing the conservatives stand for..albeit they try to conceal some of their more extreme views. Nevertheless I hope Gordon Brown will have learned lessons from this and will not so readily in future offer such obvious support to people whom he must have known full well were suspected of a very serious crime. This does raise serious doubts. However, his spokesman does say full support will be given, if it is not, then he can expect a huge backlash when the British public exercise their democratic right to vote him out.

Viv x

dolores said...

Hi Leigh,
A true fighter of justice. I hope all is well with you.Did you ever get a response to your email to the goverment?

Irina
You have a point there, hopefully, with the threat of a jail term, one of the tapas team, will spill the beans.Or are they prepared to risk all for the Mc's, and if so why? Unless of course they have been bought at a very high price.

Anonymous said...

Petition Rejected
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAA
What did you expect?

hope4truth said...

Evening All

Hope everyone in the country is enjoying our summer weather.... Hae to get the BBQ out at the weekend or I will have missed the summer for another year...

Dolores just read your post about a jail term for some of the Tapas if they are covering up for them (and I still find it hard to believe they all are maybe 2 of them??) the threat of jail may make them talk. If there was an accident and they were convinced a cover up would not be questioned I bet none of them thought the case would go so high profile and they could actually face several years in jail. Perverting the Course of Justice sometimes carrys a higher sentance than the origanal crime.

All very sad why did they ever leave their children in the first place had they not none of them would be feeling guilty for the rest of their lives.

Poor Maddie

leigh3 said...

Ola Ironside,
Clarence Mitchell has committed so many breaches of rules and law that it is only a matter of building the factual file. The Police will give him the opportunity to assist their inquiries fully or ... face the consequences of his own actions.
IMHO :-)
The internet is an interesting thing, don't you think? The free flow and exchange of information can assist inquirers of all kinds...
Leigh3 21.16GMT

hope4truth said...

Annon

Leaving children alone night after night to have one of them abducted is no laughing matter the fact a petiton has been rejected will make no diffrence to the fate of Madeleine people will still view what the McCanns did as very very wrong and even they if she was taken must regret being so bloody selfish.

You keep laughing but one thing for sure is Madeleine has nothing to laugh about.

felicity said...

Hi All,

I see we are getting a nightly visit from a McCann nasty - that is good:-) I hope he likes what he reads....

Great to hear from you all!

Viv x

Anonymous said...

Dolores, docmac has said that one of the tapas has already spilled the beans.

He gave information to the PJ in Leicester, then later in Portugal.
merc.21.24

leigh3 said...

Hiya Dolores.
The Government response is in some difficulty whenever it deals with questions about its unwise rush to give preferential, unprecedented support for the McCanns in Portugal, far beyond any assistance the UK Government has given other nationals before the tiresome spoilt brats from Rothley, and since then.
Ummm. Did I say Rothley. They were formerly of Glasgow and Liverpool, strongholds of Labourites.
Tsk tsk tsk. Diplomacy should never serve any narrow, sectional interest, in my view. The UKs good name abroad rests on fair treatment of its citizens, regardless of their political allegiance or tribal interests, otherwise we just become another bankrupt country, morally and economically.
Lovely to see you, Dolores of the pink rose. A rose is a fine, delicate thing, but it also has thorns. I trust you will use both to good effect. I know you will.
See you sometime. xo
Leigh3 21.26 GMT

felicity said...

Hiya Hope4

Re sentencing for perverting the course of justice. I think the three and half years Maxine Carr got for scrubbing up and providing a false alibi should give us some idea of what is likely to happen to a couple of misguided TAPAS. The nature of the enquiry they are perverting always has a bearing seriousness and this was a very serious enquiry..I dont know about Portuguese courts but certainly here custodial sentences of a minimum of 3 and a half years would be inevitable for those who scrub up and assist offenders who have killed a child. Maxine Carr was actually given a lenient sentence because she was very frightened of Huntley. Are Tanner and OB really frightened of Gerry - I think not, but Kate...different matter IMO. In the case of Tanner and OB I do wonder though if he had some sort of sword hanging over them..most likely they just got caught up in it and he then threatened them with how much trouble they would be in if they opened their mouths..bet they wish they didnt listen to him!

~Viv x

docmac said...

Hi merc

Correct. The moment those PJs board that plane Jane is going to need to be visiting the toilet a lot! Her partner will need fewer trips to the small echoey room, but only because he is a better liar than she is.

Anonymous, I have never, ever seen 'what a relief' spelled that way before. I have my suspicions about who you may be, but I really don't care. If and when the PJ get permission to go to England you will be in that same room sharing a rapidly diminishing stock of toilet paper.

felicity said...

Hiya Doc - Great you are back! We missed you.

You know, in a way, I almost feel sorry for Jane - she is such an ill used gullible fool and as you say not even a good liar!

My suspicions as to who could have written that and last night's are no doubt similar to your own.
I think he finished work pretty early today:-) around 4.30 p.m. and then as ever had to pop off for a bit around 7.30 for "dinner" leaving a couple of drones in charge...

I suppose the McCanns keep the twins in a good routine of going to bed pretty early.

Viv x

felicity said...

IF YOU WISH TO SHOOT ME DOWN
11.02.08, 6:56pm


you will have to wait a while I am off for around an hour half.

back at 8.30

• Posted by: Rosiepops


HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAA

Anonymous said...

Good to see you back doc, have missed your posts.

The case of tequilla worked then.

merc. 21.58

leigh3 said...

Hiya Doc,
I think this public hiatus in the ongoing investigation is the lull before the quiet, perfect storm. I wish people would trust that the investigation is ongoing, and ignore the provocation and manipulation of other 'forces'. The forces of tribal and political self-interest. Such a bore and a chore, it is. It's just something to be endured, and conquered.

Meanwhile, on a happy note, my girl is in S.A.!!! Fantastic. Am so pleased. There's so much for her to see, and enjoy, but her lil heart is looking forward to meeting the babes in a township. Awww. Bless.

BTW: seen any wildlife wearing fashionable coats yet? Looks better on them than it does on the catwalk, hey?
leigh3 21.58GMT

docmac said...

Hi Viv

You know yesterday I was within 6 feet of a male lion with a belly full of kudu. He was so bloated I was surprised he could walk up to our open-topped vehicle. He gave us a scornful look, licked his lips and walked off around the front of the Land Rover and disappeared into the scrubland. The king of beasts. It was a few minutes later that I came down to earth and then I could not help but think of the queen of the beasts on the DE forum. How limp and ineffectual she seemed at that moment. Insignificant, all roar and no bite. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAA Rosiepops, you deluded twit.

Anonymous said...

How did you guess it was me?

dolores said...

Hello to all,
Going back to the beginning here somewhat,but a useful reminder nevertheless.
14th May 2007
It is reported that around 10 British people, including the McCanns and their friends, have been re-interviewed to clarify their statements in recent days.
Two further "couples" aged in their 50s are driven into the back of the PJ building in Portimao by mid afternoon.
It is reported that around 10 British people, including the McCanns and their friends, have been re-interviewed to clarify their statements in recent days
This week the group are set to appear in court behind closed doors to record their evidence for any future trial before they go back to the UK. The procedure, known as "memory for the future", is similar to a mock trial in which the friends would give evidence as witnesses now against a future defendant.

Local lawyer Artur Rego said the procedure was used only in exceptional cases such as this where a large group of witnesses are foreign. He said: "It is recorded by video and kept sealed, then released during the hearing. If somebody is ever charged then this statement can then be unsealed and disclosed for the judge who is going to hear the case. It has the same value as witness statements delivered live in the trial."
xxD 22.07

felicity said...

Anon..your personality disorder shines through:-)

Happy posting.

Luv ya
Viv x

Anonymous said...

Felicity...so does yours :-)

felicity said...

Anon - but my children are all alive and well :-)

Anonymous said...

Dolores, I do not think that the recording of witness statements, memoria futura took place.

A Portuguese poster on 3a (Pear) found a press article that stated it did not happen.

merc.22.14

docmac said...

Merc and Leigh,

The statements were made before the 'case of Tequila' arrived, Merc. I have been awaiting further information but it is not forthcoming, yet.

Hi Leigh. Where is your daughter? She having a good time so far? Mind you, she's only been here for a day now if I remember correctly.

Is she going to see Table Mountain at least? Come on, convince her to come and see this beautiful city! The townships are squalid in many instances, but the people have hearts of gold.

Fur belongs on animals, no doubt. I have forwarded some pics to Viv on her Felicity email addy which she has made freely available. So if you have a throwaway hotmail or other addy ask her to forward them to you. There are some great pics of the Victoria Falls in Zim too.

dolores said...

An add on,
6th May
While the McCanns were at the headquarters, according to local media reports, another British couple were interviewed at the same station. They were not arrested and were driven from the station concealed by a blanket.
Later, they are driven to the Policia Judiciaria headquarters in Portimao, as it is alleged the inquiry into their Madeleine's disappearance is centred on a group of three - two men and a woman.

22.15

leigh3 said...

Dolores.
Excellent reminder. Thank you. Eyes wide open. Let's ask legitimate questions, and encourage professionals to do what they do best in the knowledge that they have the public's unswerving support, and hawk eyes urging them on to do what needs to be done.
After all, we pay for it in tax, and sadly, children pay for it in suffering.
Tapas9? That's an odd number, don't you think? Odd in many ways. Time will tell...
Leigh3 22.17GMT

dolores said...

Leigh,
It mentions 10 people taken for statements,was the 10th Murat or someone else?
xx

Anonymous said...

Oh my God, you really think anyone involved in the case would even read or participate in this awful blog.
'my children are alive and well'
What a horrible self righteous remark to make.
It shows what this really is all about. Sad, sad, sad.
Don't worry I got what I needed and won't be posting here again.
Have a nice life.

leigh3 said...

Doc: thank you.
It's the world weird web, so I can't say where she is, but am sure Table Mountain will be a wonderful thing for her to see at some future time.
For now, she needs to see the township. She wants to work with the very young or the very old in future.

So, I'm sorted, aren't I in the future if she chooses the very old...when I'm very old!

Meanwhile: check out Dolores' latest posts. Tapas9? That's a very odd number, don't ya think?

Irina said...

Anonymous, who cares about you or mccanns....
Buss off...

dolores said...

Anonymous
Don't slam the door on your way out.
We don't want you here anyway,get back to your dragons den.

leigh3 said...

Hiya Dolores.
It's someone else, just to answer the question, and others as well.
How hideous that so many cowardly adults are involved because they lack the honesty and integrity to tell the truth to their friends and family at the moment when it would have prevented all this.
Spoilt brat mentality. All of them. That's my view in brief. Incredible how this modern, relatively prosperous world has produced a class of moral dimwits, and material harlots.
Leigh3 22.36GMT

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

Sounds like you had a fantastic time - how awesome to come that close to a lion!

Male lions - always in charge ! The female lions have to go and do the hunting and then they just push her out the way whilst they get their fill. Those bruises on Kate McCann, those grab marks on her arm and that horrible bruise on her elbow where she fell..someone pushed her out the way!


Another sick little quote from "Rosie" this evening who just cannot bear to change "her" profile from stating that she is a male! :

No not yet, but I am going to get another soon, I am waiting for one to come to us and that will be the one we are intended to have.

I believe in this because most of the animals I have had have arrived in this way
Published: Monday February 11,2008 by Rosiepops
----------------------

Psychopaths don’t like animals do they..they like to cut them up and hurt them…

When I studied domestic violence it was stressed that even if the family do have a pet such a husband will hurt the pet or kill it to upset the wife…causing such terror being a form of control. Very sick people.. Also such men have a very low opinion of women "animals" often being the way they are described. "I have had"… possession rather than something they love.

Rosiepops makes my blood run cold!
Viv x

Irina said...

I still did not get any reply on my e-mail to Home Office, in which I have asked which department is responsible for processing Rogatory letters from Portugal in connection to the McCann.
I have got 2 replies on my previous emails. Both say: "The matters you have raised are the responsibility of Foreign &
Commonwealth Office."
Yet it was magistrate from Home Office who rejected letters, and now it is said that the letters are send to Home Office.
They did not respond.
Can anyone who is from UK send similar request, so that it will be clear whose responsibility those letters are?

Dolores said...

Leigh
Mmm...it could have been a partner for Diane Webster.
Or is my imagination working overtime now.LOL
XXX

leigh3 said...

Good Evening,
Write to the UK Justice Minister Jack Straw, and just for good measure, the Foreign Office. Forget Jacqui Smith for now, although she does have overlapping responsibility in so far as the Home Office and the UK Police.
Just a thought. None of this will have any immediate influence, but it will come up on the political radar if enough people write directly about this issue, in my view.
It's premature for the Home Office, but it is relevant for Straw, and the Foreign Office.
If you were a UK citizen, I would suggest you write to Gordon Brown. Again, this won't have any immediate effect, but it is useful for the issue to come up.
Best wishes. Going now. Weary day. See you soon.
Leigh3 22.49GMT

leigh3 said...

Dolores of the pink rose.
Bingo! 'Uncle' need not be a blood relative. It's how adults often introduce a trusted man to children. But how trustworthy is such a person?
See you next time.
Best wishes to you and yours. xo
Leigh3 22.50

Anonymous said...

Not sure what is being referred to concerning the Tapas 9....The Macs. the Paynes, Oldfields, ROB and JT, plus Diane Webster.

merc

leigh3 said...

Irina.
Night night. My 22.49 post was for you, but am so weary, I just said Good Evening without saying your name.
Doh!!! I must be tired.
See ya next time.

felicity said...

Dolores

I am fascinated with your posts about the TAPAS being re-interviewed in the early stages and a sealed recording made because it was an "exceptional" case.

Who were these couples in their mid fifties driven in at a later stage? I recall there seemed to be testimony from other holidaymakers about Kate McCanns conduct toward the children in particular. How old is Wilkins and his wife I wonder, probably younger than that.

Leigh

I agree - it is not that we are going to get the government to comment at all about an ongoing criminal investigation. It is more a question of wanting to bring to their attention that we are concerned and what the backlash is likely to be if they allow the McCanns to walk. The reality I still believe is that they most certainly will not! I think much of it is the meddling of Claris with Whitehall civil servants who may well have an agenda to get the tories in office.

Viv x

dolores said...

Leigh
Bless you ,pleasant dreams.
I forgot about him...thanks for the reminder.
xxx

felicity said...

Leigh - I am still trying to read all your great posts.

Sleep well my lovely and great to read you as ever

Viv xxx

Anonymous said...

Viv See post above re Memoria futura not taking place.

The other 2 couples that were interviewed in Portimao can be found on getty images. 1 was interviewed on the 10th May and the other couple on the 11th.

merc

leigh3 said...

Dolores,
And finally: best ignore disingenuous questions feigning no knowledge of T9 or T10. Ok?
xo

dolores said...

Viv I don't know how old Wilkins is, I will try and hunt it down. His wife couldn't be her her fifties surely as the had an 18 month old baby.

leigh3 said...

Dear Viv,
Writing as a former Young Socialist, I can assure you that my views have no allegiance to the Tories, but also they have no allegiance to any political interest.
Writing as an experienced woman, I now think every politician needs to be watched and held accountable, regardless of political affiliation.

Human rights, including children's rights, are too precious to leave with mere paid politicians of any kind...in my not so humble opinion! :-)
Night night, dear. xo
Leigh3 23.10GMT

dolores said...

Leigh
Gotcha...Isee what you mean.
xx

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

Yes that is what I meant that it oould not be the Wilkins but we know his evidence is crucial so I am wondering how these two couples in their fifties are. Maybe they are witnesses that were other holiday makers staying very near to the McCanns who contradict what McCanns and their friends were saying.

How clever to record on video what they said. I really do hope this happened because the best evidence is always what was being said at the time. I know PJ will also have witness statements but video would be so much better. Judges always rely on the demeanour of the witness when assessing their honesty and credibility not just what they are saying.

It is also clever of the PJ to keep re-interviewing the TAPAS because liars find it very difficult to keep on telling the same story - they always trip up. Further they suddenly get surges of having a better memory...several months later .. a dead give away. Bit like Granny Cooper. By the way darling did you manage to dig up any link with her and the McCanns?


Luv Viv x

Irina said...

Leigh, Good night.
Thank you for advice.
Agree with your political stunt on responsibility and accountability.

felicity said...

Oh my God Leigh does that mean you are now an Old Socialist like me..commiserations darling!

The trouble is there is not a credible party to vote for any more is there but anything would be preferable to having the tories back.. with people getting their homes re-possessed with 15% interest rates after they got dumped on the dole to cut wages and kill the unions. Would this Old Etonian be any different - I think not!

I studied human rights and I agree they are precious including rights of children. Politicians cannot be trusted and do need to be held to account...by the electorate!

I am delighted you are not so humble -dont you ever change minha amiga!

Luv Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
I never tried to find a connection with Cooper & Mc's it must have been someone else.I will try and track it down.
The couple now,did O'B s neighbours and friends the solicitor in Exeter, I forget his name they were also there living in the same apartment block.
Ill look into that.
luv
xx

felicity said...

Dolores

Cheers darling you are brill! Did you see Merc's post saying the the two couples who got interviewed (in their 50s) are on getty images. If you or Merc can find a link to that would not mind putting that up as a separate post. I have a feeling it will lead us somewhere!

Also we do need to go back again to this solicitor in Exeter. Funny how he, OBs and Murat all come from there!

Viv x

Anonymous said...

James Gorrod, solicitor
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=475126&in_page_id=1770

merc

dolores said...

Merc
That's the name,Gorrod,thanks,well he is 34, so it can't be him.
I'll keep looking.

Anonymous said...

Memoria futura did not take place

http://the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2406&p=32907&hilit=memoria+futura#p32907

merc

dolores said...

Meanwhile a British holidaymaker whose hire car was seized by police hunting for Madeleine McCann yesterday angrily denied any involvement in the case.


Jim Gorrod, 34, a solicitor from Exeter, was on holiday in Praia da Luz on the Algarve with his pregnant wife Charlotte and toddler son when the four-year-old went missing.


The Gorrods, who knew one of the couples on holiday with the McCanns, joined the search for Madeleine in the hours following her disappearance in May.


But three months later, the solicitor found himself under investigation and his Portuguese rental car being impounded for examination.


This led to speculation that a 'mystery' Briton might be linked to Madeleine's disappearance.


But Mrs Gorrod described the speculation as "ridiculous" and said detectives had cleared them of any involvement.


Her husband is said to have come under suspicion at a car hire office when he returned his vehicle two days after Madeleine went missing.

It is understood staff at the Sixt car hire office at Faro Airport thought it odd that a man on his own was returning a car with a rented baby seat.


The staff's concerns were farcical and could easily have been checked out, say the couple, because Mr Gorrod had dropped his family and luggage at the entrance to the busy airport before returning

Anonymous said...

Dolores if you are looking for the 2 couples that were interviewed, you will find them both on gettyimages but they are not named.

merc

dolores said...

Merc
I have looked through loads don't see it.
Do you have a link please.

Anonymous said...

D. had a quick look myself.....will try again tomorrow...unfortunately I am staying at daughters for another 10 days, so haven't got the link handy.

merc

dolores said...

Thanks Merc
Whenever you can.See you tomorrow
evenng,as I will be out all day.
nite nite.

felicity said...

Hiya all this report seems to say they will not hear any witness on Monday, not that they are not going to hear them at all. Clearly also suggests there as an early concern Gerry may not be Maddies biological father. Question is - why did they think that - were the looking for a motive for him killing her?

I was also fascinated to read that even on 14 May the McCanns already had British lawyers there to defend them but the PJ refused to allow them to - they must have Portuguese lawyers! Seems to me things were actually going badly wrong for the McCanns from a VERY EARLY STAGE! Yet these McNasties try to tell us how hopeless the PJ are - what they actually mean is they are really good - they were on to them immediately! Even the two GNR officers first at the scene found them highly suspicious and simply not credible in their account some predator gemmied the windows shutters etc and got in because there was no evidence of this. Interesting they were comparing Madeleine's hair found at the apartment with his and yet we hear he provided a sample from Rothley - is that what he specially rushed home for?? There is something here I will work it out with my posters help I am sure! several examinations were conducted on evidence found in the apartment ...they were already ruling out any predator they found things in strange places a yank of hair behind the sofa perhaps. This predator in his 8 minute window of opportunity did all this???

Nite Nite all and thanks so much for the links. It lead me to this one!

What family who lost their little girl need to have their lawyers there - because they and their fellow "witnesses" were getting videoed by the police perhaps..This is dated 14 May was it 17 May just a few days later Gerry has to rush home...desperately needing some advice of English lawyers and to get his own forensic samples?
Viv xxxxxxxxxx

• MADELEINE
PJ ensures that investigations are going to remain "a good pace"
The PJ will not, this Monday, hear any witness on the disappearance of Madeleine, but ensures that the investigation will continue to be "a good pace". About the presence of British lawyers in the Algarve to help parents, PJ recalls that can not work in Portugal.

(16:19 / 14 May 07)




The Judicial Police (PJ) announced this Monday, which is not provided for the hearing of a witness in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, but said that the investigations are going to remain "at a good pace".

"For today are not provided for steps to hear witnesses, but the investigations are going to remain at a good pace," assured the agency Lusa the Chief Inspector Olegário de Sousa and spokesman for PJ in the case of the missing girl English are eleven days.

According to the Morning Post of Monday, the PJ was to examine yarn hair of the child and his father collected at the apartment where the girl disappeared in Praia da Luz, near Lagos, with the aim of confirming the paternity of Madeleine.

On this news, Olegário de Sousa only confirmed that "several examinations were performed on evidence found in the apartment", "to see if they were the family or someone stranger to the family."

Regarding reaches of British lawyers to the Algarve to legal advice to the family and to help create a fund to finance the search for girl, the Chief Inspector noted that "the British lawyers can not work in Portugal, because they have to be accredited by the Order Advocates of ".

Anonymous said...

Do you recognise yourself here Felicity? you should do, but then again if you are sociopathic, you wont I suppose. Get help you need it, urgently!

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning

They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible.

They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used.

They may dominate and humiliate their victims.


Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." (recognise your dellusions here Viv/Felicty)

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis.
(You are always telling lies, disgusting sick lies at that. You always have, even as a child no one could believe you. Recognise yourself?)

Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests. (Yes you again)


Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. (Very True)

Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. (Recognise yourself?)

Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. (Viv/Felicity to a T)

The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions

When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. (Absolutely shockingly evident of you)

Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person.
(You described perfectly)

Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love (Yep you again)

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge.

Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. (Here you are yet again Viv)

Promiscuity and gambling are common. (Is this why your old man run off?)


Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. (You again, see the pattern?)


Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, (There you are again)

alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim.

Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others. (So true GET HELP YOU NEED IT!)


Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency (Do you? bet you do)

Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. (Yes you again Viv, it is so clear)

Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc. (There you are again)


Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. (How many lives and dreams have you wrecked? Is that why you kids can't show you affection?)

Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed. (Here you are yet again)


Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.


Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle (What will you do with your life when this is all over? Thought about that yet?)


Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.


Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

You should take great notice of this Felicity/Viv because take it from someone that knows, you need help, for your own sake seek it now.

I bet you haven't even got the guts to leave this up so every one can recognise you for what you really are.

Anonymous said...

Wow anonymous you obviously know this lying bitch well.
She or he has a definate agenda, she is using these folk as phyco's manipulate just like this.
Can't believe how the suckers take it all in can you.
Mrs Munchausen's syndrome.

3.36 am
merc

Ironside said...

Hi Viv, I see ROSIEPOPS has been looking at her reflection in the mirror...the thing is why is she telling us....I shall send a copy of this post to a good friend in the guardia civil....he deals with trauma cases....see what he comes up with....this Rosie seems to have an obsession with you...sounds a very dangerous person.....

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
I think whichever saddo posted that is describing Gerry to a tee. You clearly are getting to them and they cannot argue with you on facts so they resort to insults. Your site is excellent and they can't handle that, pure jealousy. Lizzy 8.40am

Dylan said...

Our dear viv,

I'm shocked and stunned. Words can't express how sick and twisted the above anon is.

I don't have time this morning to say all i want to about this but just wanted to identify one point:

-----------------------------------

Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person.
(You described perfectly)

----------------------------------

Whoever wrote this is implying that Maddie's "disappearance" is insignificant. Says it all really.

This is nothing short of abuse. I would report this person to the police if i were you. After all, if it had been penned and sent in a letter and not over the internet, it could be classed as criminal behaviour.

We are all with you on this and i want you to know i probably reperesent all of your "friends" on here by saying that we all know that this is pure, unadulterated rubbish.

Dylan x

Ironside said...

Hi Viv ...I have posted this post from ROSIEPOPS on the 3A's...I remember months back he sent you something very like this it went on for about seven hours....cannot remember the other poster Cristabel or tinks....Anyway I am reporting this to the DX....Proof its him ....dont need it its his style....the fact that they know whats going on is good enough.....i shall also post this on the maddie forum later....when I get back....report this Viv....this person is deranged......

Anonymous said...

Viv, I totally agree with Leigh 3's urgings in her 20:48 and 22:49 posts. Need to keep knocking on doors and asking questions. These people are civil servants.

I've enjoyed everyone's posts, bar the one nasty visitor's.

Ironside - I used (JAB) after 2345 only because 3A's has two members who signed in as 1234 & 12345 after I was banned from DE.
2345 09.55 a.m.

Anonymous said...

Viv,

Forgot to mention that zinc is the effective mineral for your son's condition; it's best absorbed with vitamin c - which your son is getting in good supply. As another poster said selenium is 'golden' - non existent in British soil - eradicated by pesticides. 2345 10.00 a.m.

Anonymous said...

Ironside, I feel really sorry for you, you believe your own crap and are so thick and just enjoy feeling important, you poor naive man you are being used so badly by three people on here and you haven't a clue about it have you?
When you forward whatever it is you are going to forward to the chief goblin in fairy land, don't forget to include the bitter and twisted sick posts of poor ill Viv/Felicity will you? She needs help, try and get it for her, if you are a true friend you will recognise it and get help for her and persuade her to accept it.

As for the rest of you gullible fools, can't see you are being played? No obviusly not.

Have a nice day flitting from one sick and twisted website to another. (Although it is hard to find a blogger as sick as the one that runs this venomous site) You are all so very funny you even believe your own hype.
I mean that ridiculous petition, not an earthly chance and realise this suckers, if this person really was legally trained he/she would never have written a blatantly libellous petition like that, they would have known it would be rejected instantly. You poor silly idiots.
Look at this it fots perfectly.

"Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests."

Have a nice day suckers.

Dolores said...

Anonymous
Jealousy is a very cancerous illness,you better deal with it, fot your own sake.
You seem to be flitting from forum to forum your self, what a hypocrite.
Truth always hurts though does it not.
Go and defend your neglecters on DE,we are the voices for Madeleine here, whether you like it or not.
In other words, GET LOST.

Irina said...

Hello everyone.
I have been analyzing Rosepops posts for a while.
Here are my conclusions:
1. Her posts are very flat, below normal IQ level.

2. The points that trigger her outbursts are very personal issues. Personal to her poster self or to either of McCanns. She never bothers to put her say for UK, Government, Brown, Clarence.

3. Points of obsessions:
a. when someone points to her
low intelligence.
b. Mentioning of Gerry’s
personal problems. See above
parentage of Madeleine.
c. Gruesome details of traces of
Madeleine's body.
d. Very defensive towards Gerry.

4. Hysterical uncontrollable responses.

5. Shows very low mental capacity and problem with logical speech.

6. Most fraises are rehearsed cliché, repeated many times.

My conclusion:
She is a woman (if a man with serious sexual problems). Confused, almost idiotic thinking.
Neurotic on the verge of hysteria.
I would say Kate or Philomena type.

Anonymous said...

Fantastic post anon,
Viv/Felicity seems a very sick person, you have described her perfectly, she cannot see the wrong in her thoughts and her behaviour which is worrying.
'at least my children are alive and well'
The spite and malice in this statement is shocking; I was shaking after reading that, but delighted because it showed what she and this blog are really all about and the true colours have been shown at last.
Spending hours on this blog printing nasty comments, lie after lie and silly conspiracy theories is not normal behaviour.
I really don't know how the others fall for the venom that is posted here, but some don't seem all that bright.
You don't have to be a 'pro-McCann' to appreciate the nastiness and hatred posted here, this blog is not about Madeleine at all but an obsessive campaign against two parents.
I would also add 'paranoia' to the description of Viv as she will immediately blame any post on the McCanns or other perceived 'enemies'.
As if they would even read this rubbish.
See if she keeps this post too.

Dolores said...

anonymous
What part of GET LOST do you not understand.
You are cleary the one who is sick,very sick.Get help.
If you cared about JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE YOU WOULD NOT DEFEND THE ONES WHO HARMED HER.
You are a HYPOCRITE.

Irina said...

Anon,ta, ta! Have you run out your medication? Spend all on your remaining children?
Ok, you can spill you outbursts here, not that anyone reads further then your anonymous said...
Paranoid Personality disorder is incurable.

Irina said...

Oh God! That is so funny! Multiple Paranoid Personality disorder.
You know what anon I am not even sorry for you. If you are mad it is a punishment you deserve!
Go on say something funny again!
You can’t hurt Madeleine any more, you have got your satisfaction once.
She does not belong anymore to you.

Anonymous said...

Gerry & Kate McCann
Did not neglect Madeleine on the 3rd.May 2007 Because she was already dead.
They neglected the twins,that night.
And they will pay big time.

JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE.

Irina said...

Well, anons,
have your say until the medication comes. Say hello to everyone in Mcs household if they got their medication already and can communicate. Not like you loonies, I have to work. See ya.

dolores said...

Freindly Fire: McCanns Are Guilty Either Way


By: Chris Freind, The Bulletin
09/14/2007

It's time to stop pretending. It's time to pronounce guilt in the Madeleine McCann case.
A little girl's life may have been snuffed out, so let's dispense with political correctness and call it like it is. By doing so, maybe we can prevent a similar tragedy from happening again.
Maddy's fate lies squarely with her parents, Gerry and Kate McCann. They are either directly responsible for her death (accident or otherwise), as Portuguese authorities believe, or they are complicit in her disappearance by their unconscionable irresponsibility in leaving her alone, night after night, in their apartment (along with her two-year-old twin siblings).
Either way, they are guilty and should be held accountable.

Anonymous said...

Anon,

Jealousy and powerlessness has drawn you to this site You're here because you are an inferior being lacking normal intellectual function. Do those you belong to no longer want you around? 2345 - 11.30 a.m.

Anonymous said...

Viv,

Poor, sad anon had to resource from this brilliant site for (verbatim) definition of Sociopath. I read it here when I first joined - congratulations - you are clearly envied and seen as a threat. 2345.

LittleGreyCell said...

12.30pm

Hi Viv and Everyone,

I've not been around for a while - had a couple of deadlines to meet and now have the dreaded 'flu - but have been looking in from time to time.

Obviously appalled at the above post from Anonymous - for the lack of brain, as much as anything else - and feel I have to point out a few things to this under-evolved, ignorant thug.

So please excuse the length of the post below.

Hope you're all well and enjoying the sunshine.

X LGC

dolores said...

Viv
Do you have any air frshener?There is a vile disgusting stench, permeating the forum.

XX

LittleGreyCell said...

12.35

TO THE 'ANONYMOUS' WITH THE BIG MOUTH BUT VERY SMALL BRAIN

What is a dead giveaway as to your remarkable lack of intelligence, Anonymous, is your attempt to be nasty to Viv by cutting and pasting someone else's words and addressing them to her, without even being able to back up any of your points. So your objectionable post reverts to childish name-calling. Which is obviously the level at which your development is stunted.

I've addressed most of your points below (I'm ill, and life's too short to include them all) in order to point out that you ought to be, at the very least, considering withdrawing your support for the McCanns - if not changing sides altogether. For you highlight many nasty traits exhibited by them and those on their side. Such is the calibre of people you are choosing to stand up for.

“Glibness and Superficial Charm”

How about inviting the quiz organizer to table for a drink?

Getting yourself onto a government advisory panel on nuclear issues when you’re a cardiologist?


“Manipulative and Conning”

Orchestrating within MINUTES of Madeleine’s disappearance a large-scale professional spin machine.


“They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible”.

How about recognizing the rights of a missing, probably dead, child?

Starting up a website so that discussion can be facilitated about what has become of a missing child without the thuggish bullying of people who evidently have a vested interest in the case is hardly “self-serving”. Bullying those who exercise their right to free speech IS self-serving.


“They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used”

Just ask the Tapas 7, friends of Kate and Gerry, about not being ‘allowed’ to talk to the press or anyone else without the express permission of Gerry (it is a documented fact that anything the friends want to say about what happened in Portugal has to go through Gerry first).


“They may dominate and humiliate their victims”.

Have you seen the bruises on Kate’s arms?


“Grandiose Sense of Self.
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Does Gerry not believe he has a “right” not to be made an arguido?

Does Gery not believe he has a “right” not to be asked awkward questions in television interviews?

Does Gerry not believe he has a “right” to ask for money from the public when he lives in an expensive property that he could sell to raise funds?

Does Gerry not believe he has a “right” to use his official spokesman to bring an end to public discussion about the case?


“Pathological Lying.
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis”.

Very glad you brought this up, Anonymous...

...Did Gerry not at first state the patio doors were locked? Then unlocked? They both can’t be true.

Did Gerry not state that the children were checked more frequently than they have appeared to be?

Did Gerry not say that he and Kate would go back to Portugal in order to aid the investigation? Funny how he suddenly hired a lawyer specialising in extradition.

Did Gerry not say that the tapas bar was much closer to the apartment than it actually is?

Did Gerry not say he felt it was a safe environment in which to leave the kids asleep and then subsequently that he felt they had been watched?

Did Gerry not state that he didn’t know Murat, when evidence is coming to the fore that he DID?

Did Gerry not state the tennis bag now in the possession of the PJ wasn’t his?

Did Gerry not state they would take a lie detector test?

Did they not lie about the amount of alcohol consumed that night?

Did they not lie about the ‘abductor’ gaining entry through the window, then change this to ‘through the door’?

Did Kate and Gerry not state they arrived at the tapas bar first, to be contradicted by one of their friends who said they were the last to arrive?

Did Gerry and Russell O’Brien not lie about their whereabouts during a mobile phone call?

Did the quiz organiser not state that nobody left the tapas table for the whole half hour she was sitting there, thus throwing into doubt many contradictory statements by many of the Tapas 9?

Did the friends not change their statements as to how often they checked their own children? As to whether they were responsible for checking the children of the others? As to whether they entered the kids bedrooms or just listened at the door?

Did Jane Tanner not change her statement about the physical appearance of the ‘Bundleman’, about whether or not there was a blanket, about the direction of his travel?

Are these not all lies??


“Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt”

Kindly show me where Gerry has displayed any of these.

When questioned about leaving the children on their own he merely says ‘everyone does it’.


“A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core”.

How about storming out of the studio when asked a pertinent question?

How about Kate’s bruises?


“Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims”.

Ha! Just ask the ‘friends’ how they now feel about Kate and Gerry.

And while you’re at it, mention their names to Father Panchecho.


“The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way”.

No, not little old ladies donating money, not the goodwill of priests, not the sanctity of freedom of speech, not the immorality of accusing others of being involved in Madeleine’s disappearance…


“Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises”.

How about the promise to remain in Portugal until Madeleine is found?

How about the promise to donate money to charity?

How about the promise to take a lie detector test?


“Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal”.

How about storming out of a tv studio?

Kate’s bruises?


“Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them”.

Oh, nice one, Anonymous. What about Gerry’s interviews in which he talks more about himself and Kate than what Madeleine might be suffering? Take the Christmas one, in which he said someone had the power to end the pain for them both, omitting entirely to mention Madeleine’s pain.


“Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed”.

Do Kate and Gerry really see themselves to blame for leaving their kids alone night after night?


“Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts”.

Hmm. Probably best not discuss this one here, although there has been much discussion about this.


“Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively”.

Hmm. Moves around a lot. How about Rome and America and Spain, Germany, Amsterdam and Morocco?

All-encompassing promises, eh? How about stating they’ll stay in Portugal for the duration?

How about planning a year’s anniversary concert? (Think about the implications of this one, Anonymous).


Why don't you contemplate the above points, Anonymous, and spend some useful time examining your own morals in supporting people who behave in the appalling way as detailed above regarding the disappearance and probably death of a little girl.

Your name-calling and obnoxious posts do nothing either for you, or for those whose reputations you are endeavouring (lamely)to protect.

The game's up, mate. Get yourself out of there before it's too late.

LGC

felicity said...

Anon

I am sorry you are getting to like it here because I am deleting your posts. Any posts that simply abuse either myself or other posters will be removed.

You are a very sad person and clearly not wanted wherever you turn up.

Viv x

felicity said...

Excellant post LGC and good morning to you my friend.

Thank you to you and others for dealing with things so well in my absence! Just tidying up!

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

13.05

Good Morning, Viv!

Am sitting here with streaming eyes, but couldn't let that one pass...

The little ****.

Oh, do you know, am feeling a bit better now!

Hope you're well. :)

X LGC

felicity said...

Hiya LGC - just got called away - phone!

Bless you darling - even with the flu - but glad it was thereapeutic!

I hope you feel much better soon

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

oh !I am fine thanks - just rather busy!

Viv x

Anonymous said...

littlegreycell,

Can you hear me cheering ? !!!
Well said to the despicable person. I wish you a speedy recovery from the flu. 2345.

LittleGreyCell said...

2.35

Dear Viv and 2345,

Many thanks for your good wishes! If you're wise, you would both immediately buy some shares in tissues.

Did you spot the crass immaturity of Anonymous's post, by-the-way? Think we can hazard a guess as to the perpetrator??

X Little Red Nose

Anonymous said...

Oh dear removing comments you don't agree with, 'ow zat for structured debate? You can only debate here if you agree with poor little Vivvy wivvy pivvy.

I am so glad you will remove them, it just proves our point, which is,

"You Can Dish It Out, But You Can't Stand It Up You, Can You"?

You want us to stop interupting your pathetic vindictive little site? Then stop with your sick and nasty psychotic comments.

Ironside said...

Well,well,well,the coward speaks with no BALLS.....If you are one of madeleines family,,as I fear you are..we are now getting a good idea of what her life was like...poor little soul...You are in big trouble and need help.....

These posts will be reported to the police who will in turn contact the DX and all future posts from ROSIEPOPS will be closely monitored....

I am becoming worried now with your unstable mind....what really happened to madeleine...with your ravings...was it an accident or something much more sinister....

Keep them coming and lets see what the police make of them....all e.mails can be traced through the right channels....I have posted your ravings on every site and named you....Coward that you are....

Anonymous said...

What a laugh you are Ironside, when you report this to the police remember to take a copy of all the disgusting hate filled comments on this site, sure they will be very interested, take a copy of them, I have.
Especially all those aimed towards Rosepops, who it has already been noted by a great many people, that the blogger running this site has an obsession with. Google even know about it.
Vivvy you can quickly delete them but remember you can't take them off of your hard drive. No matter anyway the copies have all been saved.
Go on do it. Big trouble coming for Vivvy too.
What a male gender head you are Ironside, you are as delluded as your mistress, poor subservient fool. What has this little bit of rubbish or I got to do with the DX? Oh I know nothing, but they may be interested in Vivvy nicking their comments off of their website and putting them on here. (Good thinking)

LittleGreyCell said...

3.00pm

ANONYMOUS,

"You can only debate here if you agree with poor little Vivvy wivvy pivvy".

?

Are you not COMPLETELY embarrassed not to be able to engage in genuine, grown-up discussion based on intelligent argument?

Can you not see that anyone with a brain is laughing at your pathetic attempts to defend the McCanns and their appalling friends in this way? God help them, if this is all they've got.

Is the line "poor little Vivvy wivvy pivvy" winning the argument for your side, do you think?

I thought the aggression your lot display is pitiful, but this is pathetic, too.

But I suppose that comes with not being able to think of any believeable reasons as to why you are defending their lies, their lamentable parenthood practices, their manipulative PR campaign, their begging for money from the public...all of which SHOULD tell you what kind of people they are.

Being related to them is not an excuse, Anonymous - we are all in charge of our own moral code.

LGC

Anonymous said...

Wasting Police time.
As if the Police don't have enough work already.

felicity said...

Hiya all

2345 - I immediately took your advice and have got Luke some combined vit c and zinc:-) I also went and picked him up from work at 3 am because it was cold and frosty - he may be 28 but he is still getting cosseted!

I wonder who "us" is that is determined to keep interrupting my pathetic vindictive little site. You can dish it but you cannot take it - well in her almost 7000 posts on the Daily Express Rosie has said that a few times now hasn't she and "we are just defending ourselves". Sure in the way that psycopaths do!

Ironside - I think your method is very effective in spreading the word of Team McCann! If I needed defending I most certainly would not want the likes of that on my side!

It is a criminal offence under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 to post repeated offensive comments on a blog - a UK woman was recently sent down for it - so do please carry on Anon - evidence is building and your padded cell awaits you.

By the way folks any news on when the PJs will be arriving? I suppose a little hysteria in understandable.

Viv x

docmac said...

Hi Viv, just in for a moment then off again. Just a bit of proof for you, in case you had any doubts.

Anonymous said on JusticeforMaddie:

"Especially all those aimed towards Rosepops, who it has already been noted by a great many people, that the blogger running this site has an obsession with. Google even know about it."

Rosiepops said on the DE forum:

"DID I GIVE MY PERSMISSION FOR VIV/FELICITY
30.01.08, 4:00pm


to pilfer my posts from here and use them on her nasty site? No I did not.

Not that I do not stand by what I wrote, I just am absolutely mortified that someone will think that I have posted on that disgusting sick site and I am actually in contact with Google about it and I will not stop until I force themt o force her to take my postings down from there.

• Posted by: Rosiepops

Cough, cough. Only times Google has been mentioned either on the DE forum or here. Sneeze, Goddamn, what is getting up my nose :-)

Hi LGC, hope you are well soon. See you later perhaps.

Ironside said...

Dear deluded Rosiepops....I have posted your posts on every site you and your followers are named and shamed....there is not one credible site that will not now be looking into the DX and to watch you and your grovelling playmates.in action....I have told them the witching hour when you all coagulate.....(a clotting of the blood) how appropriate like Dracula sucking the life out of the good....

Just try your luck on those sites and you will be whooshed just like kate said madeleine was.....clean out of sight,you bitter and twister old man...or are you a jaffa?

felicity said...

Hiya Doc

Thanks for that. Something just got up my nose too - had a really bad sneezing it :-)

Not content with 7000 posts on the Daily Express..so many of them about me..

Luv Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

3.50

ANONYMOUS

Did the obviously extensive education you received (are still receiving?) never bring to your attention the concept of 'irony'?

Perhaps you could find a definition of it now - worth a go, as it might enable you to understand some of the grown-ups' posts on here.

LGC

felicity said...

Hiya LGC/Ironside/Doc

One of my little grandaughter's used to say nanny wiv when she was about two because she could not pronounce the v. Very weird when an adult speaks just like a two year old...vivvy wivvy pivvy.. - is there a link here?

Viv x

ironside said...

Ironsides - that post addressed to Viv would describe GM perfectly.

Maybe we can find a more generic way to word the petition.

Removing reference to an individual case would give it a better chance.

Instead of asking direct questions of MP's, maybe a request along the lines of.

...... Once the criminal process is completed, I would appreciate it if the subject of leaving young children unattended, whether at home or abroad, is addressed by parliament. It is irresponsible, and can be potentially dangerous.
Whilst the risk of random abduction is extremely small, the hazards from choking, fire and other household dangers are much higher, and can be fatal.

This issue seems to have been understated, in fact almost condoned in a very public way, it would help the rest of the world see that this is not acceptable behavior for British parents.



This from a poster on your thread...To date 46 petitions have been turned down by Downing Street against the mccanns...so you are not alone.....People are livid and want to do something ,,your thread is there viv,when you have time pop over and discuss with them,thay all have ideas but do not know the law.....after 9pm is a good time...one thing I can say they are not going to take any more of this crap....

LittleGreyCell said...

3.55

Hello Docmac,

Great to see you back after your trip! Hope you saw lots of fantastic wildlife.

Thanks for your good wishes - I must be getting better soon, there's very little fluid left to come out...

Atishoo!

X LGC

LittleGreyCell said...

4.00

Viv,

One of the twins, perhaps? But perhaps not, the spelling isn't that good, is it...

X LGC

Ironside said...

Thank you for your kind words. It is time, once and for all, that we set the record straight on this matter.

I am researching the latest developments, and planning a column soon. The McCanns are guilty, one way or the other.

Best Regards,

Chris Freind
Freindly Fire
Audaces fortuna iuvat
610-659-0098


Maybe we all could email him with support and maybe invite him here. cfreind@thebulletin.us


00


Right and for our next trick,this is an american reporter who wants to start digging into the mccanns case.....

He wrote a report sometime back now..how to him it is beyond belief that no one is reporting this case...he would like to....So May I suggest we all start e.mailing him ....with everything we know including links.....and let him take it from there....he is chomping at the bit.....lets give him a few carrots.....


VIVVY WIVVY POO...Please do not make me laugh..have just come from the dentist...had a shave anda haircut.......am a bit worried though....as I would like to take a walk along the beach....problem is its raining.....This time tomorrow I could be the new weirdo...come suspect...or worse creepyman.....Hi Docmac...another holiday???????Good to see you around.....

Anonymous said...

Viv,LGC,Doc - Re: Anon/Rosie ..

Thanks, the air's nice and clean again now.

Not surprised he/she has such bad arthritis; it's 'acid' related.

Anonymous said...

Viv,LGC,Doc - Re: Anon/Rosie

I'm under par here today, forgot to sign last post - 2345 4.15 p.m.

Irina said...

Anonymous Rouse is laughable of course.
But imagine that this all comes from the mouth of the doctor to whom people entrust their lives? From the mother, whose children, if they will survive, will be exact copy of her or Gerry.
Imagine what sort of person Madeline was distant to become with parents like Rose?
Society will defiantly win if they will be locked up for life.
I would not trust relatives to bring up the twins either; they all seem to have something wrong with them.

Irina said...

Anonymous Rouse is laughable of course.
But imagine that this all comes from the mouth of the doctor to whom people entrust their lives? From the mother, whose children, if they will survive, will be exact copy of her or Gerry.
Imagine what sort of person Madeline was distant to become with parents like Rose?
Society will defiantly win if they will be locked up for life.
I would not trust relatives to bring up the twins either; they all seem to have something wrong with them.

Ironside said...

Chris Freind: Freindly Fire
McCanns, and British Media, Are 'Suspect'
By: Chris Freind, The Bulletin
09/07/2007
Email to a friendPost a CommentPrinter-friendly
According to CNN, the recent naming of Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects in their daughter's disappearance was a "surprising twist".


This should have been a surprise only to those whose heads were buried in the sand or who were blindly, and foolishly, loyal to the McCanns.

"Equally suspect" has been the performance of the media.

For the most part, the American media gets a pass. It wasn't on their turf, and they didn't grasp the significance of the story. Their sole focus was that the May disappearance of a four year old British girl was a kidnapping. Since she wasn't quickly found, the story faded into obscurity.

The behavior of the British media, however, is another matter. This was their story, their citizen who went "missing" in a foreign country (Portugal). It's one thing to give the parents the benefit of the doubt, at least with respect to criminal conduct. But where was the thirst for the facts, the investigative instinct that is the hallmark of any good reporter? To put it succinctly, besides all but canonizing the parents, the British media did nothing.

Here's an example. No effort was made by anyone to verify the true distance between the restaurant where the McCanns dined and the room where their three children were left alone---three children, by the way, with a combined age of seven. There have been wildly different claims of the distance, including contradictory statements by Gerry and Kate. And what about the claim that they could see the room from their table? Why didn't the BBC run video that clearly showed that a large hedge and wall actually blocked the McCann's line-of-sight?

The list goes on, but the overarching sin of the media is that it unequivocally shut down any talk of the McCanns as suspects, or, at the very least, incredibly negligent parents. As any detective will tell you, in the case of a missing child, everyone is a suspect. You begin with those closest to the child and work your way out. No one is left off the hook.

The vast majority of Brits were appalled at young children left alone while their parents---doctors mind you--- dined. But such criticism was consistently squashed by the biased UK media establishment: letters to the editor were filtered to only reflect "victim status" towards Gerry and Kate, blog posts and forums containing criticisms were shut down, and common sense questions went unasked. Why? As an August Freindly Fire column pointed out, both the mainstream media and the red top tabloids, which pride themselves on their "print and be damned" attitude, wore rose-colored glasses and disregarded the true victim---Madeleine--- by not doing their job.

Here's the $64,000 question: What will they do now? Will they blindly defend the McCanns as they've done for the last four months, or do a courageous about-face and diligently investigate the facts---all the facts--- in the case? Of course, there is another path they can take. Will the media, now that the forensic evidence appears damning and charges against Gerry and Kate are imminent, hang Team McCann from the yardarm to rot, jettisoning their cause without the slightest hesitation, oblivious of its hypocrisy?

We shall see, but don't hold your breath waiting for them to do the right thing.

In the meantime, since Freindly Fire has been on the case from Day One exposing the child-negligent, globe-trotting, celebrity-wannabes known as Kate and Gerry, perhaps it is time to take a trip across the pond to do what the British media has not---and will not--- do. Report the facts.

I might even visit with one of my admirers, who just last week threatened me with slander and libel:

"Chris Freind,

I have forwarded your slanderous dribble onto the McCanns and I hope they take you to court for every penny you have. You have a responsibility towards the public and should support your so-called facts with documentary evidence. All your reports are hearsay and extremely slanderous and your futile attempt at journalism beggars belief."

Colin, UK"

Thanks, Colin. But aside from that, how do you like me?

He then sends a message to the McCanns:

"McCanns,

I have forwarded this on to you as you seem to be taking some action now against these idiots' attempts at journalism, although I understand if you don't want anything to do with this idiot because you are compassionate people. It's good to know that these so-called journalists are only a minority...and to try to build a reputation with sensationalism with no documentary evidence on the back of someone else's misery is ing. You can do with this what you want."

Colin's right about one thing. While the journalists who have reported the truth and asked the tough questions are in the minority, they enjoy overwhelming support from the public at large. British responses agreeing with Freindly Fire's sentiments are running about 150-1.

Colin, I have only two questions for you:

1) Why don't you ask little Madeleine about her parent's "compassion"?

2) Since I relish a chance to talk with Kate and Gerry about my "slander", and since you seem so close to them, how about arranging a meeting? They may have a lot of time to kill.
Chris Freind can be reached at cf@thebulletin.us.


This is an article from one of his reports...Rothaymere lives in the states...maybe she could give us more info on him......anyway I shall e.mail him this evening,,,,,and see what gives..

Anonymous said...

Ironside,

Someone on 3 A's suggested directing Chris Freind to that and other Forums. This gives him direct access to an incredible amount of well sourced info don't you think?

It also enables him to watch the pattern of behaviour first hand. Clarence ALWAYS reacts to and tries to offset opinions and comments he continually monitors.

For example, I commented on Mari Luz and her parents all having totally different surnames. Next day, they're amended to align. The day after I commented the parents have taken no legal action to clear their names, a DE article said they were doing this. This happens time and time again - far too regularly to be a coincidence.

Clarence's PR is based solely on manipulating opinions in DAILY forum discussions. Chris Freind would find this very highly questionable IMO. PR is SO very predictable and questionable.

I spent ages reading thentherewere4's thread two days ago, cannot find it again - do you know where I can find it ?
2345 - 4.30 p.m.

felicity said...

Hiya folks

guess why the air is nice and clean again now - Rosie is now posting on the Daily Express instead of here - but shhhhhh we know he doubles up well!

There is a bit of the usual Portuguese police bashing in the article from Daily Mail below but that aside what a good one! Cant bear to start a new thread - I like this one and it is the record, I think, approaching 200!
--------------------------------
Madeleine and the missing hour: how often did the McCanns check on their children?
As the hunt for Madeleine hits 100 days, emotions run high


By SUE REID - More by this author »

Last updated at 16:31pm on 11th August 2007

Comments (50)

Sitting beside a swimming pool in the Algarve on that May evening Gerry and Kate McCann were enjoying themselves. The tapas bar of the Mark Warner holiday resort in Praia da Luz was buzzing with holidaymakers and it was quiz night.


The McCanns were favourites to win the contest organised by the resort's aerobics teacher Najova Chekaya. After all, the two doctors had brains on their side. Around their table were seven friends from England, three of them also doctors and one a top medical research fellow.

The group of nine were holidaying in Portugal and wanted to have a good time. As one of the doctors, Matthew Oldfield, was to recall: "We drank. So what! We were on holiday."

Scroll down for more



Madeleine: Questions about her disappearance are growing
Read more...

Why have the police gone so cool towards the McCanns?
Madeleine's parents forced to take twins out of creche to avoid 'upsetting' holidaymakers
Madeleine: Police launch hunt for mystery British man
McCanns help launch new missing persons website
In pictures, the 120 metre route to check on Madeleine


But 50 yards away on the other side of the swimming pool, the group's children were sleeping alone. In the bedroom of one ground floor apartment was Madeleine, the McCanns' three-year-old daughter.

Her twin brother and sister, Sean and Amelie, two, lay in cots either side of her. They had been tucked up at 7pm. Half an hour later the McCanns had joined their friends for dinner at the tapas bar.

What happened next has mystified the world.

At 10pm Kate McCann got up from the table to check on her children. She slipped in through the patio windows to find the twins safely asleep - and her daughter's bed empty.

In tears and calling out Madeleine's name, she ran back to her friends to tell them: "They've taken her, they've taken her."

Madeleine has not been seen in the 100 days since May 3. Last night Portuguese police said they were concentrating on what they call the "missing hour" before Mrs McCann found her daughter gone. They say it is possible that she was kidnapped after her father last checked her at 9.05pm and her mother's terrible discovery.

Meanwhile the campaign to keep the public aware of Madeleine's name goes on. It has involved her Roman Catholic parents visiting the Pope.


Scroll down for more



Staying on: Gerry and Kate McCann in Praia da Luz

And, on the instructions of JK Rowling, posters of Madeleine were distributed at British bookshops as they opened for the sale of the new Harry Potter book.

This week the donations from the public to a Madeleine fund, financing the PR campaign and global search for the little girl from Rothley in Leicestershire, was nudging £1 million.

More than 50 million people visited the Find Madeleine website in the 48 hours after its launch.

Nothing like this has ever been seen before, and probably never will again.

The campaign has been organised by the McCanns, both 38. Today they believe their daughter is still alive and was abducted by a stranger. Whether the motive was paedophilia, the sale of Madeleine for adoption or even the trade of her organs, they have no idea. Nor do they speculate.

As Mr McCann wrote on his website the other day: "The Portuguese police have assured us on numerous occasions that they are looking for Madeleine and not a corpse."

Yet this week attitudes towards the McCanns underwent a seismic shift, the questions growing more aggressive by the day. The scenario of a small girl being kidnapped without warning on a spring holiday in a family friendly resort is now the subject of lurid debate - particularly in Portugal.

Disturbing questions are being asked about the behaviour of the McCanns and their friends.

The catalyst was the discovery this week, by British police with sniffer dogs, of specks of blood on a wall in the family's apartment.

The blood is now being analysed in this country, raising unpalatable speculation that Madeleine was killed where she slept and was then carried off to the beach or bundled into a car boot.

The reluctance of Gerry and Kate McCann or their friends to speak publicly, or in any detail, about the minutiae of the evening has fuelled the controversy, although they insist it is illegal in Portugal to comment on any police investigation.

In another uncomfortable development the Portuguese press, including the respected newspaper Dairio de Noticias, has claimed that interviews given by the McCann group to police contain discrepancies. Their stories and the timings of their movements on the night do not tally.

Furthermore, emails and phone messages sent between the group - and intercepted by the PolÌcia Judiciaria and British detectives helping the inquiry - are reported to contain conversations that contradict earlier statements.

But the spotlight is equally falling on the seemingly woeful response of the Policia Judiciaria. They only arrived two hours after the alarm was raised. A British expert on child abduction who visited the resort a few days later said it the worst preserved crime scene he had ever witnessed.

Twenty people - including resort workers and other holidaymakers - are believed to have entered the McCanns' apartment after the disappearance. The patio windows at the rear, and the closest point to the tapas bar, were touched by searchers.

The patio had been left open by the McCanns in case of fire and, it appears, so that they could easily check the children.

But what of Madeleine's bedroom? It was situated next to the apartment's front door which is around the corner and a further 30 yards on, next to a road into the resort and a busy carpark.

Notably the bedroom, completely out of the sight of the tapas bar, had heavy, metal window shutters. These were also contaminated in the search.

Even her bedtime toy Cuddle Cat - which is now carried by Mrs McCann - was not isolated for forensic analysis.

Local newspapers and television have criticised the McCann group, who left their children alone for two and a half hours as they wined and dined.

One question being asked is why didn't the parents put their children in the evening creche which is open until 11.30pm? Why didn't they hire a babysitter, bookable at the Mark Warner reception desk?

In a further twist, locals now claim that Madeleine did not always settle well. One evening they allege she ran away into the paths between the apartments, hiding for half an hour when it was time for bed.

Whatever the truth, to begin to unravel the mystery one has to go back to the seemingly carefree days at the start of the holiday.

Gerry and Kate McCann and their friends are like-minded people, with children of similar ages. And they knew each other in the Midlands. Mr McCann is a consultant cardiologist at a Leicester's Glenfield Hospital and his wife is a GP.

Until recently Dr Oldfield worked at Leicester general hospital. David Payne is a senior research fellow in cardiovascular sciences at Leicester University and his wife, Fiona, is a doctor. Another of the holidaymakers, Dr Russell O'Brien, also worked at Leicester University before moving this summer.

Recently they all went to Mark Warner's in Greece where they had devised a plan of leaving their children to sleep while they had dinner nearby.

As Mr McCann explained: "The distance is so small, it was so close it was almost like having dinner in your garden. What we were doing was rigorous with multiple people checking at regular intervals."

When asked if Madeleine might have wandered out through the unlocked patio windows towards the swimming pool, or beyond to the beach, the McCanns dismiss it out of hand.

"We're absolutely certain. We double and treble-checked and have no doubt she was taken," said Mr McCann. Yet another scenario is now emerging in the local press. It is built on the recollections of other guests and workers at the resort.

The official story from the McCanns is this. Mr McCann said he checked on his three children at 9.05pm. He noticed that a door in the apartment which had been left shut was ajar.

He thought nothing of it but it may have indicated that a kidnapper was already there. But his daughter was fast asleep so he went back to the tapas bar.

Another of the group, Jane Tanner, says she took her turn 10 minutes later. She claimed later to police that she saw a dark-haired man of about 35 carrying a child as she walked back to the bar afterwards but thought nothing of it.

Soon after her return - at 9.45pm - Dr Oldfield did his round of the bedrooms. In a first statement to police, it is unclear if he actually went inside the McCann flat.

Indeed, one scenario is that many of the checks of the children were not visible, but involved listening at doors or even from outside the apartments.

However, in a second statement Dr Oldfield insists he did look in Madeleine's bedroom, believes he saw her there, and that there was light coming in through the windows as though the heavy shutters had been opened.

Again, he thought little of it until afterwards. Then, of course, it was Mrs McCann's turn. She found Madeleine gone.

Madeleine's aunt Trish Cameron recalled that she received a call later that night from her younger brother, Mr McCann, who told her: "I went back to check the children at nine o'clock. They were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut."

Mrs Cameron related that when Mrs McCann went to the two apartment a little under an hour later: "The shutters had been jemmied open. They think someone must have come in the window and gone out of the front door with Madeleine."

But what is now perturbing Portuguese police is how could she be abducted when the McCann group were checking so often? Or have reports inadvertently exaggerated how vigilant the parents really were?

A worker at the tapas bar says that only a tall man, believed to be Russell O'Brien, got up from the table during the entire evening. Of course, this witness might be wrong. A busy barman could not have eyes on the McCann party for two and a half hours.

And what of Najova Chekaya, the aerobics teacher running the quiz? She was invited over to the McCann table by Mr McCann himself when the game ended at 9.30. She stayed for half an hour. She later claimed to friends that nobody left the table.

There is another conundrum too. It concerns the sighting by Jane Tanner of the man carrying a child. He was wearing beige trousers and smart black shoes. Her report is taken seriously by police.

Yet a British holidaymaker, Jeremy Wilkins, has given a deposition that does not support her evidence. He knew Mr McCann because he played tennis with him, and was walking his eight-month-old son in the night air when the drama unfolded.

He says that he met Mr McCann, who had come out of his apartment at 9.05pm, and had a word with him. Soon after that Jane Tanner would have crossed paths with Mr Wilkins and his baby.

Mr Wilkins says he saw no man carrying a child or Jane Tanner herself. "It was a very narrow path and I think it would have been almost impossible for anyone to walk by without me noticing," he said.

So today the questions remain. Was Madeleine kidnapped or killed? Or unwatched, did she simply walk out and get lost? How could there be a break in with a jemmy through metal shutters without waking the twins or alerting a passerby?

Someone, somewhere must know the answers.


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Add your comment Comments (50)

50 people have commented on this story so far. Tell us what you think below.

At last, what I've been waiting for and really these questions should have been raised a long time ago and what everybody wants the answers to. Looking at the photographs of the tapas bar distance to the apartment and the stairs she could have easily fallen down those concrete stairs. How on earth they could have left them alone just beats me.

- Juli, London

This is an excellent article, and sums up perfectly the real situation.

- Charlotte Browning, Bolton, Lancs, England

Wow, if a poor little girl wasn't the innocent victim in all of this, it would be a truly fascinating story, which would seem more fitting for a book. However, it is an ongoing desperate situation and I pray that the McCanns find out the truth very soon.

- Sharon, Oldham, England

How refreshing to finally see the press asking questions that should have been asked months ago. No press have dared speak what the British public is thinking, preferring only to slander the Portuguese police and a guy with a dodgy eye.


- Jg, Staffs UK

Well written and researched, Ms.Reid.

- Hal, Vancouver, BC

Thank you. At last we have a rational piece of journalism about this case.

- Barbara, Surrey, UK

Interersting article. This is just a minor observation - when Kate discovered that Madeleine was missing, she ran back to the group of friends and said "they've" taken her. Why not say "someone"? 'They' normally refers to the plural.

- Pip, United Kingdom.

Thank you for finaly asking the questions so many of us have asked, and been attacked for. I think all of us simply want justice for Maddy, and for that, we need the truth.

- Tom Smith, Bristol

Respect to Sue Reid at the Mail for taking the lead in asking the pertinent questions many millions of people world-wide have been demanding to know the true answers to for 100 days.

- Maureen L., Warrington Cheshire

Why has it taken so long for this information to be made public in this country? Why has no other news paper or news programme reported even half of this? I must say I am profoundly shocked by the contents of this article, but I am very very grateful to Sue Reid for writing it.

- Betty, Wombwell, UK

What did she mean: "They've taken her! They've taken her?" How peculiar. Who were "they"?

- Anne, Colorado, USA ex-pat

Congratulations on finally turning the spotlight on the events of May 3rd 2007.


- Maz2007, England

Very interesting and very well written scenario. This is becoming more and more mysterious and posing more questions than answers.

- T White, London

Now this is the Daily Mail I know and love. This is fair, balanced investigative journalism. Noone can accuse the DM of being biased now. There are difficult questions that need to be answered. May God bless Madeleine.

- Chud, London

Why have the Portugese suddenly turned against the McCanns? This case has been very suspicious from the start. The police have been very inept and I cannot help feeling that there is some group of people smuggling children.

It is a real mystery but the best form of defence is attack and that is the strategy of the Portugese despite the tragedy these poor people have suffered.

Time and again we see how officials are involved in child abuse here and abroad and it is covered up. I hope one day we learn the truth about poor little Madeleine. What a cruel world we live in.

- Jane Hoch, Hertfordshire

Will anyone ever know what really happened on that fateful night in May 2007?

- A. M., Dorset

You have begun to restore my faith in the British press Sue Reid, I'd hoped you would. I knew it would take someone with balls to ask the right questions and state some unpallatable facts, and I just knew it would take a woman. Well done, don't give up now you are so close.

- Chris, Yorkshire UK

Thank you so much for a relevant article asking exactly the right questions instead of being the ususal one-sided McCann worshipping.

- Suzanne, Copenhagen, Denmark

Why can't Mark Warner afford CCTV?

- Mike, London, UK

felicity said...

REPLY FROM LEICS POLICE!!

THANKS DOVE ON THE DAILY EXPRESS!

WE certainly do support Leics Police - what a nice email!

Viv x
-------------------------

From Leicestershire police.

I have today received this reply:

"Thank you for your correspondance in relation to the Madeleine McCann investigation.Leicestershire Constabulary is one of a number of UK law enforcement agencies who are supporting the Portuguese authorities with their investigations into the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine McCann.

Our role is to complete and co-ordinate UK based enquiries at the request of the Portuguese authorities.Any tasks completed by British Police are under the direction of the Portuguese police and the results forwarded onto Portugal.

The fact that this is not our investigation and also the implications of Portuguese judicial secrecy mean that we are not in a
position to release information,brief the press on the investigation`s progress or confirm or deny any specifics relating to the case.

At the heart of this inquiry is an innocent little girl who went missing in May 2007.Our focus remains in doing everything we can to assist the Judicial Police and the Portuguese authorities to find out what has happened to Madeleine.I am sure that you would support us in this."


• Posted by: Dove

Niki said...

Viv, don't let anyone destroy your brilliant site! Keep up the good work!

Hi all!

I have had these thoughts in mind for quite a while, but as I am more of a reader than a writer, I have waited for someone else to suggest this...:

Coupples with small children seem to have this romantic dream about going on holidays. They will have time to play with the kids, catch up with all those days and weeks with bad consience of neglecting family and partner. Sexual life might have been on halt for a long time, but when finally on holidays!!... Discussions might have accured as jokes between the tapas 9 about the subject. After some drinks you will not be embaressed to talk about your personal problemes to friends that you are "so into"! Let's suggest J.T. and O'B.had experienced this, but sorted it out with Viagra or other stimulating drugs. They wanted to help out the now troubled McCanns giving them some of their medicines.One of them poppes into 5A, finds Kate giving a bath to the kids, shoutes into the bathroom : "Kate, I'll put your "candies" here!". Madeleine, hearing the word "candies", somehow gets a hold of them and eats 1-2-3? Before Kate has finished with the twins, Madeleine might already had a heart attack...

With this theory, I belive they all did what they could to rescue the little girl. But if they knew it was too late?(Headlines: Doctores 3year old daughter killed by overdose Viagra) Could they panic and be so afraid of loosing work, respect, children and freedom that they decided to cover it up with the abduction-story? It would make sence to why these four are lying. They might all be guilty...

Hope this does not sound compleatly stupid...and sorry for my bad english...

Niki
19.50 in Greece

Anonymous said...

Viv & Everyone - Good news, a note in haste - dinner is burning.

Pike1 on 3A's has just posted a superb reply from e-mail enquiry to Leicester Police. Broadly - cannot divulge information etc, but last paragraph as follows:

"At the heart of this enquiry is an innocent little girl who went missing in May 2007. Our focus remains in doing everything we can to assist Judiciary Police and Portuguese Authorities to find out hat happened to Madeleine: I am sure that you would support us in this".

It's a far more humane/emotive response that I would have imagined. I get the impression that as much e-mail support as possible from the public would be very well received. ? for political reasons as well as legal.

The 3 A's commentator got their e-mail from Leicester Police website. I must dash now, I'll try and find it and post it.

I hope you all find their words as heartwarming and reassuring as I do. Great stuff ... they're still with Madeleine all the way and, of course, PJ. 2345 6.00 p.m.

Anonymous said...

It does sound completely stupid, but its original, you should send the script to the CSI production team ;).
Sorry.
I'm not the previous anon by the way.

Anonymous said...

Niki,
Your theory doesn't 'sit' with FSS information released 7 September, the day the parents were interviewed and named 'arguido'.

Jane Hill gave following live BBC news report outside Police Station:

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx .. some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". Also "Sousa himself told of this very find mist of spray that was found in the apartment".

The alleged forensics indicate life threatening injuries as opposed to medication poisoning/overdose. 2345 6.10 p.m.

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