19 Feb 2008



I think either the McCanns had an injunction served on them to stop the debate about them or more likely

The Daily Express have been advised their articles and forum seriously prejudice an ongoing criminal investigation which could certainly mean they know the PJ imminent/McCanns to be charged!

Stay on current thread I think guys!

Viv x

I think this article from El Mundo, December 07 is very illuminate, particularly in putting Murat right back in the frame emphasising his prior relationship with Gerry. It does seem likely 10 June was the date Gerry finally disposed of little Maddie and phone records confirm, lied to the police about his whereabouts. It really is so horrible, but encouraging in given us an insight as to the depth and extent of the evidence the police have collated against Gerry McCann in particular. It does sound like OB is in very serious trouble indeed - how odd our press do not report on his whereabouts /whether he is at work etc. The lack of reporting here really does give cause for concern. Investigative journalism book get throw out the window on the McCann case unless it is on some wild goose chase in Morocco, Portugal etc. - nothing here where the real suspects are housed!

Viv x

'Case Maddie' narrows the fence The wiretapping involving Gerry McCann and Russell O'Brien, which would be suspect DUARTE LEVY. Special to THE WORLD LONDON .- Seven months after the night when Madeleine McCann mysteriously disappeared from his bed, police Portuguese seemed closer than ever to solving the case, which so much ink and money has caused. After a surprise visit to Elderby, headquarters of the police in London (United Kingdom), which operates Kate and Gerry McCann, the Portuguese authorities are preparing to return to interrogate the group of nine British are at the heart of the mystery. After cooperating with the British authorities, the Portuguese Judicial Police will be required to travel to England the next few weeks, with the aim of interrogating both Gerry and Kate McCann and seven of his friends with the parents of Maddie were having dinner the night of On 3 May. Elderby's meeting between the Portuguese and British police in the presence of various specialists in forensics, served to reinforce the research that the team continues Paulo Rebelo since last July and which led to consider as arguidos ( suspects) to marry McCann The Portuguese Judicial Police still suspecting that Kate and Gerry McCann hid the body of her daughter, Madeleine, and simulated his abduction. One complaint that extends to two other suspects, Robert Murata and Russell O'Brien. Contrary to what many thought so far, the Judicial Police has in its possession more evidence that simple DNA analysis. According to various testimonies, available, for example, from the list of telephone calls made by the marriage McCann and his friends, and knows also the recipients of those calls and, in some cases, the exact content of the conversations held by all members of the group. The call that most intrigued the Portuguese police took place on June 10 between Russell O'Brien and Gerry McCann. The father of Maddie initially assured the police that the call had been made from a location four miles from Ocean Club. However, eavesdropping on calls and triangulation of antennas enabled the Portuguese police, in collaboration with technicians British verify that these claims were false. The place from which the call was made and the content of the same signs are missing and the police want to explore in interrogations, which could lead to the rapid location of the body Madeleine. The triangulation of calls has enabled the police discovered an abandoned barn, where they found a towel stained with blood and waste from the boot of the Renault Scenic rented by McCann. In addition, several videos and various photographs are part of the summary, including some showing that Murat already knew the group members. Aside from the strange coincidence that Murat had been in Exeter, where residents then Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner, the police received their British colleagues various elements that can prove that Gerry McCann and Robert Murata had already been seen and spoken on several occasions, even before the McCann travel to Praia da Luz. A source close to the Prosecutor's Office confirmed that there is sufficient evidence, regardless of the DNA test, to make formal accusations. But that decision will only be taken after the interrogation, and near the end of the term after which the summary of the case will no longer be secret. With the strengthening of the line of research and suspicions of the police on the Portuguese McCann, investigators have eight months to conclude its investigation. Since then, the process becomes public, according to the new penal code Portuguese. The situation of Robert Murata, Gerry and Kate could therefore worse. Indeed, Murata was declared a suspect or arguido on May 14 and, therefore, its eight months ending in January. Marriage McCann was declared a suspect on September 7, which, in his case, the term expiring in May.


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Anonymous said...

Morning, Viv

So what is your take on Murat then? I have always thought that this bugger was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but have no strong views on him either way.

Regarding the barn, the pro cretins have spent a lot of time rubbishing the few spots of blood found on the towel as being insignificant. I think the fibres from the car are significant and I suspect the PJ have more evidence from around the barn than many suspect.

Those damned phone records too, they just don't go away, do they?

See you tonight.

Turn on nicks!

irina said...

Good Morning.
I think Murat refused to cooperate with McCanns, or did the favor without knowledge, but when all came out, refused to help.
Then he was threatened and framed.
I do not think he knows much, but I suspect he is afraid for his daughter and keeps silence.

Still no spin today. Clara have earned his pension?

2345 said...


Thanks for very interesting article and, again, for this Forum - provider of news not 'spin' !!

Three cheers for brilliant Police work. Mobile phone tracking technology broke Huntley's false alibi in the Sohom case. There are many parallels in both cases - great news.

Hope your son's well on the 'up'.
9.20 a.m.

Niki said...

Kalimera/Good morning

I belive Murat is a man that could do whatever for the right amount of money. He could have helped out finding a hideout for Maddies body, knowing the area, and empty houses! He could even have gone togheter with O'Brian, and therefor actually been seen around the complex on the evening of the
3.. (Don't like him because he abandoned his own daughter for six months so I might as well frame him....)

To manage to get the "script" right, I am convinced now, that Madeleine was killled late the 2.May. That would also explain why at least the tapas 9 did not continiu to pretend they where searching, even when the police left. They must have been exhausted for beeing awake the previos night to figure out what to do. You can manage one night without sleep, not a second...

11.56 freezing cold Greece

2345 said...


There's an incredible amount of background information available on Murat in thentherewere4's thread on 3 A's site. Well worth a read on all aspects.

Once the case is done and dusted and secrecy laws no longer apply, Murat's story will be a best seller. 10.35 p.m.

2345 said...

Sad Troll,

Unlike you, others think for themselves. In real terms you're a mental prostitute. 10.35 p.m.

ratonthebeam said...

Is Troll posting here as well as on her own saccharine-coated yukk of a blog?

When she's not slagging off this blog, and saying what a terrible person you are Viv, for ridiculing others, that is....

A hypocrite as well as a numpty.

Rat 10:45 GMT

2345 said...


Troll, sadly, is a puppet - definition - "made of material with a hollow head operated by the hand or finger" The owner of the hand or finger is puppet's mouthpiece and we all know who that is !!! 11.10 p.m.

LittleGreyCell said...



We know you're only taking orders (now where have I heard that before?) - does this make you a Trolly Dolly?

When you've got a moment, could I have a coffee, please? Black, no sugar. Ta.

Oh, and by the way, you may know some who will be in need of the emergency exits soon, so you'd better practice your evacuation procedure...


Anonymous said...

Hi Viv,
Very interesting article today , looks as if the Police have a great deal more evidence than thought, no wonder Team Mccann have become increasingly desperate and unpleasant. They can maybe see what is coming.I find it rather pathetic they have their trols on your blog but suppose it is an indication that they see you as a threat as your blog provides a good source of info, unlike the DE which more and more decent posters are being driven off, either by the petty bullying or boredom from the mindless drivel from Team Mccann.Hope you are still doing well with your non smoking drive, I have given up for 3 years in May so if I can do it, you can for sure. Lizzy

Anonymous said...

This is one of the 5 links in supposed abductions shot in the foot.

Jornal de Noticias

The 9-year-old girl from Vila Nova de Poiares who reported an attempted abduction, made the story up, the Judiciaria in Coimbra has been able to establish.

The young girl invented the abduction attempt, based on another situation that happened with a girl who lives in the same village: That other girl, upon leaving the bus that brought her home from school, saw a car stop near to her, but nobody came out of the car. The girl's mother, who was home at the window, panicked and started yelling, as she was afraid that her daughter might be taken.

The GNR intervened, but found no motives to request the intervention of the PJ. In the second 'case', the PJ was called but concluded that the story had been made up.

Yesterday, the Child Protection Commission of Vila Nova de Poiares released a statement, saying that the cases of alleged abduction attempts in the area "have no plausible basis" and that this has been clearly proved beyond any doubt.

dolores 13.00

Anonymous said...

Hi Dolores

I'm sure you will agree that you meant 2 of the 5 links :-)

I have a horrible feeling that this threatened abduction theme is going to develop into actual faked abductions. Ever since the Maddie fund raised such a staggering amount of money (and probably the same again in untaxable cash in brown envelopes) this has been a strong possibility. For the moment I have a gut feeling that the team of fraud specialists may have a hand in these cases. It seems they have had little else to do lately, so why not line a few poor palms at the request of the pinkster? Wouldn't really bite into the 58K would it?

I'll be back later.


2345 said...

Troll puppet/ROTB,

Definition of 'bully' - " hired ruffian" aka you and Metado 3.

On the other hand are the Police, law enforcement elite who presented the prime suspects with substantiated evidence on 7 September - day the McCanns were named 'arguidos'.

The following does not constitute 'bullying' - just plain simple facts. I know you hate the name 'Jane Hill' and the information given to her, but these are the FSS Facts :

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". Also "Sousa told of this very fine mist of spray that was found in the apartment".

But for the expertize in this case and the damning forensics of the McCanns' guilt you would, I imagine, be employed filling the shelves at Tesco. 1.20 p.m.

felicity said...

Hiya everyone

I originally thought that Murat must have helped in some way with disposal of the body. I recall he hired a car and was most insistent about it apparently but already had two and he disappeared in it for quite a while. This is not evidence but it is certainly opportunity. However no forensics from that vehicle unlike McCanns hire car! I also bore in mind the police keep him as an arguido.

But then for months now really I came to the view that Murat must be completely innocent and is being set up by Gerry - who knew he was there to set up! What had really convinced me he is completely innocent is the non stop campaign against him! An example I guess of the negative side of spin. I reasoned why would all these McCann people point the finger and we even had Kate's article in the Daily Express saying she thinks he has a case to answer. Why would they do that if he was an accomplice of theirs?

I think maybe Irina provides the answer. He has helped in some way and therefor is involved but he has seriously fell foul of the McCanns - presumably trying to stand his ground against Gerry McCann which would be sure to unleash some vitriol his way. I do not think though that Murat, if he is involved is a "bad person"
in the league of Gerry McCann. I think he is frightened to admit anythng to the police at all just like Kate McCann is - how strange Gerry the puppet master answered police questions but Kate did not - just like she was told I bet.

Logically I think Murat must be involved in some way to still be an arguido - althoug I have consistently and I think cogently argued this just be because they do not want one speck of the investigation being leaked now. They want to keep Gerry nd Kate in complete fear not knowing what is going on and do not wish to create further speculation - reason enough to just keep Murat an arguido. I have to keep an open mind on him but no way did he "abduct" her!

Supertroll - I did warn you not be rude! You got released recently didnt you Christabel, et all? You were not in Ireland you were on a section under the Mental Health Act . Now run along and play on your blog or I made need to see about getting you sectioned again.
Viv x

2345 said...


Excuse me interrupting, but I'm convinced the 'faked' abduction has already happened. M 3's coincidental appearance in Huelva at the time of Mari Luz 'disappearance' was no coincidence and nothing in the article on day one 'rang true'.

Mari's parents are, by all accounts, cash strapped gypsies and ideal M 3 targets. I've been 99.99% sure from day one that this child is safe and in the care of gypsy clan relatives (well out of sight). Clarence's latest 'spin' on (by all reports non-existent) posters confirms two things. He's aware of public suspicion and by spinning yet another yarn - Marie's father's anger etc. - is trying to backpeddle and disassociate the McCanns from their direct link to this family. This was a paid staged disappearance to support their plea and undermine the Police.
All I can sense in Mari's case is a very smelly rat .... Mr Cortez is being paid to do as he's told; his alleged 'outrage' is 'hot air. These parents, along with all other false witnesses, succumbed to temptation and bribery. This was one of the purposes of the Fund.

Kind hearted unsuspecting public had no idea they would be funding a bunch of outlaws employed to confound the Police and their duties to Madeleine. This aspect alone makes my blood boil; I know many cashed strapped OAPs who were conned. Utterly shameful and despicable. 1.30 p.m.

I've been convinced from day one that Mari Luz 'disappearance

felicity said...

Hiya Doc and Dolores

I fear you really do have a point about these five ATTEMPTED abductions. For one thing is it not likely that at least one of them would have been a successful abduction.

I am struggling to concentrate without the dreaded weed but I think I recently read an article where Claris was saying he did not really want to comment. I think even Clarence is getting very scared. This solicitor Edwards Smethurst is running Metodos with Gerry McCann. I think it is not just the GMC who need to be looking through a wide angled lense but also the Law Society. Also I wonder if it is true the London and Portuguese lawyers had a conference recently or whether that is just spin also.

Really good point ~Doc that with the cash in brown envelopes it could have been far more cash than admitted to and did we ever get a definitive figure on the fund total anyway. Plus the input of this dodgy double glazing man - is he a relative?

Viv x

felicity said...

Hi 2345

Fascinating post - I suppose I just do not want to believe that - it is so horrible - but Rosiepop's repeated arguments about the short drive to Huelva - I am afraid it really does make sense! Also why the McCanns have had to make visits to Spain!

I would not like to be Dr Rebelo trying to coordinate this lot - it must be a nightmare - Gerry McCann increasingly appears to be one of the most malevolent and maninupulative characters the world has ever seen!

Viv x

Fenugreek said...

I saw on the 3A forum convincing evidence that Tanner and O'Brien only moved to Exeter in June 2007. At least, that is when they bought the house there. If true, this makes a nonsense of the Exeter connection.

I remain sceptical about Murat's involvement. If he was implicated in some way, surely the PJ would have hauled him in for repeated questioning (especially if they continue to accumulate evidence) because if he cracked, it would enable the PJ to go straight to the prosecutor. As it is, they haven't talked to him pretty much since the time O'Brien and the two women flew over for the confrontation.

2345 said...


I agree with your views on Murat. I do not underestimate PJ's intelligence or strategies being applied in this case. Keeping his silence is most likely a must at this stage for his & PJ's benefit.

I learned quite a lot about Murat from thenthenwere4's thread on 3 A's. There's an incredible amount of research and rationalization and, it seems, property development link exists. Im sure Murat's story after the case is done and dusted will be well worth a read; he appears pretty normal compared to Gerry's hallmarks of psychosis.

I spend time with my husband in the evening and rarely post after 6.00 p.m. Like you, 3 A's was under bombardment last evening. Herr Clarence's minions stand out like sore thumbs and were out witted and outgunned like the saddo on here. Hugely entertaining !! 1.55 p.m.

felicity said...

CRAZYPOPS: Dont be shy: Tell you what would you like me to post a few from the Daily Express!

I think it is you "who can dish it but cant take it"

19.02.08, 4:43am

I know who complained - good old Dr_Val - she can dish it but she can't stand the heat...

• Posted by: calcite51 • Report Comment
19.02.08, 1:15am

As usual I was deleted last night/ this morning, so I'm making a comment. I am not a bigot, but I am not shy to admit there is government conspiracy and shoddy police work. Portugal has been shrouded with it since the beginning of this investigation. There is no reason to go off insulting other people because they disagree with your countries lack of interest in investigating this case.

Many people disagree with my countries war in Iraq and I would legitimately agree with them if said because it's true. I wouldn't lie or stand by them in any way knowing the mistakes they have made.

Some people are just pushing their weight around here and of course this propaganda shopping center of news reporting is eating it up. What a shame.

• Posted by: blackdaisies • Report Comment
18.02.08, 11:34pm

18.02.08, 4:59pm

but for the avoidance of doubt I did NOT report Rosie's post. I DID report your racist post Mum 21.

I have had a couple of posts removed myself and do not bother to point the finger - you just like something to argue about! I think the DE are watching and sometimes just do remove posts. The one removed of Rosiepops contained a lot of "Portugal bashing" as well as bashing me as per usual! Stop blaming other people for why your posts get removed and look closer to home. Racism breaches terms and condiitions as do personal attacks. You victimise people and then try to play the victim yourself!

• Posted by: bestrest • Report Comment

do you have trouble understanding the written word as well as understanding what words actually mean?

There was not any Portugal bashing in that post as those that read it will testify.

How dare you, tell lies. Just as well I have a copy of it.

• Posted by: Rosiepops • Report Comment
18.02.08, 11:31pm

The email went off this morning!

I have already had two responses from the same office! They seem extremely interested and are very concerned about apparent leaking!

• Posted by: Rosiepops • Report Comment
18.02.08, 11:04pm

Can't get an update past 8.12 pm!!!

• Posted by: Midnight • Report Comment


PS What do you think the PJ are doing with all your emails:-)

The clang of the cell doors....

Viv xxxxxxxxx

2345 said...


Just before I was booted off DE Forum, a Portuguese commentator said that their authorities had reported M 3's illegal activities to their counterparts in Spain. I truly believe Mrs Murat's comments about M 3 intimidating the innocent; by all accounts the critical Tapas waiter's in hiding.
Since then an innocent Algarve pig farmer has suffered threat and menace and the innocent non 'drifter'. M 3 are a bunch of vigilante outlaws - evil.

The point I'm making is that things were getting a bit too hot for M 3 in Portugal; I expect citizens had involved the Police. So M 3 pushed off back home to Spain. Within a short time, they just happened to be in Huelva to assist the parents of 'another abducted child'. It was blatantly obvious ... M 3 are armed with Fund cash and Mari's 'devout Catholic parents' - we were told - are very poor people.

I remember Alsabella saying a while back that a reputable Portuguese TV station was approached for paid regular updates on the case. Conditions were, words to the effect, or not being from the Police angle. Proud of their country and reputation, those who approached them on McCanns' behalf were told to s ... off !!

The heartening thing in this case is the decency of the Portuguese in all respects. The depressing aspect is the abhorrent behaviour of the British from the Government down. Decent British citizens far outweigh the corrupt, hence the high use and appreciation of people joining together as a voice for democracy and decency in Forums such as this.

We do not need tabloids; we ignore spin and have access to all relevant information and like minded good people. I've often thought that the lies and corruption and the need to take a stand against both have created an underground movement, as it was in the War years. A stand for freedom of speech against evil dictators. It's exactly the same and unbelievable; the result of the death of a little girl. 2.20p.m.

2345 said...


Just read some of the DE posts. I see Rosiepops is still stuck in the same old PJ bashing groove.

It's hilarious given the damning forensics sitting on their files.
How she loathes their success; had an equal hatred of Police techniques and their success in the Sarah Payne & Sohom cases.

I read that Sarah's mother's hard endeavours haven't brought the hoped for result. As I understand it, the public now have the right to ask for information about people in close working contact with children. I always thought they did given the clearances required. Her tragic loss was caused because she and her husband (unlike the Police) didn't know that a paedophile lived in the area. This still remains the case despite all her efforts to the contrary for the sake of others.

I stand corrected for saying that Sarah was 6 when she was abducted; she was in fact 8 years old. I wonder what she thinks of the McCanns? The same as everyone else, I imagine; poor soul, it broke her husband's mental health and their marriage. 2.35 p.m.

felicity said...

Hiya 2345 - thanks again for some really helpful posts. I read that the innocent pig farmer actually has a conviction for rape. I do not know whether this is true or not but if it is, would certainly be a reason why the McCanns sought to hound this man.

Dido on the Daily Express has just posted this - big surprise these "attempted abductions" were a hoax! This story as ever, started in the Daily Mail - the paper it seems to me Clarence actually gets to write the articles - Daily Express copy them the next day!

Whoever you are Dido - thanks and I hope you dont mind me copying your very helpful post. Viv x

The 9-year-old girl from Vila Nova de Poiares who reported an attempted abduction, made the story up, the Judiciaria in Coimbra has been able to establish.

The young girl invented the abduction attempt, based on another situation that happened with a girl who lives in the same village: That other girl, upon leaving the bus that brought her home from school, saw a car stop near to her, but nobody came out of the car. The girl's mother, who was home at the window, panicked and started yelling, as she was afraid that her daughter might be taken.

The GNR intervened, but found no motives to request the intervention of the PJ. In the second 'case', the PJ was called but concluded that the story had been made up.

Yesterday, the Child Protection Commission of Vila Nova de Poiares released a statement, saying that the cases of alleged abduction attempts in the area "have no plausible basis" and that this has been clearly proved beyond any doubt.

i hope clarence issues an apology and the authorities inportugal investigate if there was something behind the false claims.

I doubt that Clarrie will issue any apology but at least he's been rumbled....again.....

• Posted by: Dido

felicity said...

Melbel another of Rosie /Gerry'S alter egos check this out for pure arrogance not to mention ANGER! I see the prediction has now subtly changed it is not the case will be shelved, there is no evidence, it is I predict they will be cleared! No serious newspaper has pointed a finger at the McCanns so dont you forget that - who else would so openly admit to the importance of the publicity campaign other than a McCann and a very domineering and bullying one too!

Rosie is not around of course Whenever it gets ridiculed it takes a break but does not shut up...

In the second one buy a spade!

Viv x

19.02.08, 3:35pm

just looking in and quickly out again,as with the exception of mum and Elizabeth,no rational comments and the "DEVIL" certainly finds work for evil hands to do.
It never ceases to amaze me how ill informed people will rush into print, no doubt thinking they have a world wide audience, to point the finger, without access to anything other than tabloid pulp.
No serious newspaper or documentary in Britain,has pointed a finger at McCs, so do not forget that.
Neither is it to do with Gordon Brown, the Labour Government or any other interference at this end, in my view.
I predict they will be cleared of allegations you are making about the disappearance of their daughter.
Please do not presume you speak for madeleine, as quite frankly,I would run a mile , if I got into conversation with any of you antis, on the train or bus {yes, we do talk to our neighbours up north ]
You hold extreme views and not mainstream opinion, in my opinion and some of you come over as quite scarey people, but must lack insight to realise this, which is sad.
Bye all, I am just off to send a further contribution to the Find Madeleine fund and God Bless her and all her family and friends.

• Posted by: melbel

Published: Saturday February 16,2008 by melbel
I find the theories of the antis [on the basis of what is in the public domain] about how Madeleine could have been killed,acidentally or otherwise and disposed of, to be utterly ridiculous.
How, in a foreign country do you start to hide a body or dispose of it or even buy a spade, in the full scrutiny of the Police and world press.?
The press and tv,etc, landed, en masse, shortly after this happened.
As for the idea that people are deferential towards doctors and do not want to believe that they were involved, it is utter rubbish and went out of the window with Shipman, etc.
those days have gone and doctors have to earn respect, like everyone else.
I think they ultimately got more stick and criticism, because they were doctors.
I think the PJ did a pretty good job of spinning against them, initially, with the daily leaks, but I think people have wised up now,with the gradual de- leaks about there being no evidence.
Poor madeleine and all the family.
I never cared for Branson, but he has gone up greatly in my books,by putting his money in.
Take care.I will be off shortly.

felicity said...

HelenM - the one generally used to agree and back up.

I wonder, who does he hate the most, me or Goncalo Amaral? We both stand for JUSTICE FOR MADDIE, hence the hatred - now that is what I call sick! Gerry, you are going to court and you are going to jail, it is no use being abusive or getting others to be, you are not fooling anyone. As

Viv x

felicity said...

19.02.08, 4:25pm

obviously you have been spending far too much time on that woman's site. Tell me how long does it take for brainwashing these days? In your case maybe not too long eh! For anyone who maybe thinks you are so sweetness and like should visit that site at least once to get the true measure of you and others.

• Posted by: HelenM

2345 said...


thanks for DE posts. Rosiepops and alter ego has same short term memory problems as the McCanns.

Following FSS information in Jane's report, various DE articles reported - scent of death of mother's clothing, car keys, bible and laundered cuddle cat. Spinal fluids in apartment along with blood on wall and curtains (reportedly scrubbed with cleaning fluids). Plus wheel well, plus, plus as you're fully aware.

DE reported McCanns remained prime suspects following PJ's conference with Leicester Police. This was followed by small article "Police 'have the evidence to charge Kate & Gerry' - albeit relegated to a page other than the Front one which Clarrie always bags.

It seems Rosiepops and alter ego's either do not read the press or are in the earlier stages of dementia/short to medium term memory loss. Another worrying symptom of their mental malfunction is the inability to read or interpret content of written articles. They are unable to refer to written sentences without misconstruing and misrepresneting the contents when reproducing them. This shower would argue day was night if the moon was full. 6.10 p.m.

2345 said...


Not nice to see you - definition of a "puppet" - made of a material body and hollow head - operated by hand or finger". The operator is the puppet's mouthpiece.

Will you be shelf stacking in Tesco when the case is over ?
6.10 p.m.

In other words

Anonymous said...

OOps new thread by supertroll.

felicity said...

Hiya 2345 - I always remember Christabel and Rosiepops referring to me as HIV in about end Oct-early November and stating

I see through you, right through you

Problem is we see right through them! Christabel is completely sick and note since Doc and I unmasked her on here last night/today - no more comment from our resident nutcase - supertroll. She may think she is super but we think it is time she went back on a section. The few people that are actually operating these puppets are about as sick as they come. We all know who the master pupeteer is - Gerry McCann. I had previously disagreed with you saying he is pschotic, as this indicates severe mental illness, now I think you are right. However, if it is just pure psychopathy we know that psychopaths have the ability to put on a glib superficial charm to anyone who they are able to con - to those who see right through them they will malevolenty attack them, do their utmost to cause them harm and display intense hatred towards them. I see that currently Hope4 is being attacked in similar way for being a "sweet person" which she quite obviously is. Still willing to accept that maybe Maddie did get abducted but even if this is the case they were still responsible. Clearly unless you blindly accept the McCann dogma, you are ripe for their vicious attacks. Mrs Healy's comments are typical. This media campaign, so far as they are concerned, means they put all their spin and the press and we just shut up and listen, including to the two liars at Christmas with their sickening video. What they really cannot stand is that there are web pages like this where the public are answering back. Now just how dare we. Gerry McCann is a control freak and is clearly getting intensely angry that he is not exercising that degree of control that he is used to - being the spoilt little brat that he is.

Great to hear your views as ever, 2345, particularly given that just like me, you are really winding them up, by so cleverly challenging their sickening behaviour. Docmac, another great friend who they really hate will be on later. Look forward to that. I see he drops in on them on the Daily Express and only has to make just one post to get about three furious ones back from "Rosiepops".

Gerry McCann is only too happy to get any odd nutcase on his side, normal people dont want to know!
Viv x

supertroll said...

I haven't really gone, sorry, only to work today.
Nobody controls me.
So today I'm Christabel, please make your mind up as to who I am, if you carry one accusing me of being different people I might end up developing multiple personality disorder.
I don't know the people you mention but obviously we have a lot in common.

Anonymous said...

Especially for you S/troll

Bloodclue puts McCann parents in crosshairs
From correspondents in Portugal
January 09, 2008 01:00am
THE international hunt for missing British girl Madeleine McCann took several new twists yesterday as the investigation appeared to focus more tightly on her parents.

Portuguese police moved closer to charging the parents Kate and Gerry McCann after demanding the mother's diary be seized as trial evidence.
Madeleine, 3, disappeared from a room in a Portuguese holiday resort in May while her parents dined at a nearby restaurant.

'Blood was definitely Maddie's'
Blood found in a car hired by her parents weeks after she disappeared definitely came from the British girl, it was reported yesterday.
The Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manha cited police sources as saying new tests on blood found in the hire car conclusively showed it was Madeleine's.
"The definitive result of the tests leave no doubts for the Policia Judiciaria. The blood found in the McCanns' car is that of Madeleine as well as those samples detected in the flat," the paper said.
Portuguese police have also reportedly cast doubt on evidence an expat Briton was spotted near the resort the night of the disappearance. They say Robert Murat, who has been questioned several times, maintains he was home on the night and that the man seen may have been a friend of the McCanns.
The McCanns - officially suspects in Portugal - reacted in fury to the claims.

Kate's diary 'points to her involvement'
Portuguese newspapers have already published what they claim are extracts from Kate's journal and say the diary is fundamental to the belief that the 39-year-old GP and mother-of-three was involved in the death of her daughter.
Passages are said to reveal a mother at her wits' end coping with three hysterical kids. Her twins, Sean and Amelie, were aged 2 when their sister vanished. Cardiologist Gerry, 39, is said to be portrayed as an absent dad happy to leave his wife to shoulder the burden while he relaxed on holiday.
Unsourced claims in the Portuguese media said police believed the child was killed in the apartment and her body moved in a car hired 25 days after she vanished.

Parents 'depressed'
In England, The Sun newspaper has reported the parents are depressed that again wild rumour and speculation is being presented as fact.
The British paper claims it is ridiculous to suggest Madeleine's blood was in the car because she was never in it.
According to Correio Da Manha, the police case against the McCanns consisted of sniffer dogs and that traces of blood indicate the presence of the little girl's body behind a sofa and in the trunk of the car.
Kate and Gerry have always maintained there are innocent explanations for DNA found.

Dolores 18.35

supertroll said...


felicity said...

That was a great post thanks Dolores, I wonder, when are we going to hear these innocent explanations for the DNA evidence found in the apartment and the hire car! As 2345 posted above, the likes of ~Rosiepotty etc simply deny there is any evidence, they even deny this is a homicide investigation - no it is not she rants! Words fail me!

Viv x

Supertroll - I am sure the psychiatrists gave you your correct diagnosis which no doubt would encompass multiple personality disorder. You have been at least 20 people on the Daily Express! What happened to the blog, chat, forum on your other webpage -did the police and social workers sort that one out? You really cannot keep writing stuff like this on the internet you know. I am pleased to see your above post is toned down - see that you keep it that way!

Viv x

Anonymous said...

Hi Viv
The usual excuse I expect,with their disgusting habit of carting around filthy nappies and rotting meat.No wonder germs are carried into our hospitals.
dolores 18.57

supertroll said...

Auntie Viv,
can't you access it? My blog is still there and I added another thread today.
I have checked in depth as to what I can and cannot post on the internet and I am not worried. And anything I have posted is pretty tame compared to what you post everyday.

hope4truth said...


What do you think happend the night Madeleine disapeared?

felicity said...

Hello personal stalker,

I did take a look at your blog yesterday or day before but there was only one comment on it and it seemed to consist of a blog for you to attack my blog, copying from it and generally pursue your stalking and fixation with me and everything I say or do - by the way I ruptured a ligament in my ankle not broke it, I am sure you want the precise detail to fixate on. I cannot see the point of looking at it! If I want to read the crap you write, I can read it on here, prior to hitting the button! You just cannot keep away from me, can you!

You have been stalking me since last October and I know you just cannot help it.

LittleGreyCell said...


Evening Everyone,

Fleeting visit due to fish pie constraints...have been reading the 3 Arguidos a bit today - wow! Fab stuff by thentherewere4, especially concerning Murat's link with the Tapas lot, what they were doing in Praia in the first place, and what initially happened to Madeleine's body. Most of it is extremely plausible, give or take a couple of things about which we've heard differing accounts.

Ironside was instrumental collating all thentherewere4's stuff onto one thread.

Anyone know if he's still on holiday? I thought he'd come back...

X LGC (maybe I'll get more than one grey cell if I eat up all my fish pie)

Anonymous said...

Wish I could share everyones enthusiasm for the above mentioned poster on the 3a.

Personally I find him/her a little off the wall.

Many of the posts to me are highly speculative but come across as facts.

felicity said...

Hiya LGC - I will go and have a read, but the factual interests me more than the theoretical, some I have read are rather bizarre..the TAPAS left their kids in the care of a highranking paedo in the Brit gov who then rushed off on a private plane...What?

I think Ironside did pop in after his holiday but has not been around much since. It is quiet really isnt it in terms of news , he was always great at getting that for us. I am looking forward to some proper news. The PJ are here!!

Great to hear from you again.

Viv x

supertroll said...

My reply to you is in my blog.

hope4truth said...


Oh do you have a blog?

Strange way to answer a question answer in another blog?

2345 said...


Thanks for your post. I've had first hand experience of psychotic behaviour; I won't bore you with the details other than it entailed my stepmother's emotional and financial abuse of my late father. It was the means by which it was applied, cold calculated and very intelligent. At that time, I had no understanding of dark depths of such people and neither did my father. I'll give you one example - unbeknown to anyone in the family she was trying to get him sectioned. We later discovered she had taken all the money from the family business and father was asking awkward questions. He was elderly and fully compos mentis. Over a period of around a month she phoned his GP at least three times a week say he (father) has asked for a visit as he was feeling unwell. She arranged visits early afternoons and was always out when G.P. called. GP would knock on the door, wake father from his post lunch nap, say he'd come as father had requested.

The really evil part of this was that after several visits my father began to wonder whether he was, in fact losing the plot. He trusted his wife implicity, she appeared loving and dutiful and still called him 'darling'.

During the third week stepmother stayed in the house at the time of visit she'd arranged and made her first request for his confirmation that father was losing his mind. His G P was astute and dismissed the notion. During week four, the plan backfired. Yet another request was made at, stepmother said, father's request because he was feeling ill. A duty doctor called and found father in excellent health cutting the hedge. Both were utterly confused.

By chance the Community Nurse was my sister in law. The doctors conferred with her as to what was going on. It transpired that unbeknown to the family she had Power of Attorney. She used the above methods to try and get the doctor to write a supporting letter to the Court of Protection confirming him mentally unfit. This was the means she carefully and coldy plotted to cover up syphoning money/selling assets which bankrupted the three generation family business. At this stage he came to live with my family. It then came to light that as his Attorney she had borrowed vast sums in his name and stolen that as well.

The point in this is that this privately education daughter of an eye surgeon exuded the utmost charm and good manners throughout. She outwardly appeared to care deeply and gave no signs of anything untoward. Some 2 years prior to the above events, she persuaded my father and brother to form a limited company with her as the secretary. Her connivance was breathtaking. Suffice to say the step by step planning involved, and use and abuse of trust enabled her to achieve her long aimed for goal.

Because of past experiences, my instincts alerted me to the uncanny parallels in the aims and behaviour of Gerry McCann. If you knew my stepmother, you would know him also, as I do. He's dangerous because her operates with no moral or social conscience. He treats everyone with equal contempt, the Police, forensic scientists and the public. His puppet minions reflect and echo his psychotic behaviour.

I saved my stepmother's life prior to realizing what she truly was; I nursed through recovery from a serious illness. She loved only control and money; just below the surface of her charm and self control was a quick and violent temper. I did not encounter this until I stepped in to help my father. Then, and only then, did the monster truly show it's face.

In so many ways, events in this case are like an action reply of horrendous past experiences. The biggest shock in the above realization was that not only had she treated us father and his family as thick fools, our decency blinded us to it. She abused our trust, decency and morals.

I've said it before and will continue to say it - the truly dangerous one in this duo is Gerry.
I hope I haven't bored you, I just wanted you to understand the basis of my beliefs in this case. 8.35 p.m.

merc said...


You sometimes come across as a voice of reason and quite a polite person.

Having said that your blog belies that and methinks you speak with forked tongue.

"Most of the posters there are morons and easy to tske the piss of.
However, the one that worries me is docmac/notdoc.
What are his motives?
Any opinions on this one?

I am looking into it and will reveal more when I have more info"

Why would another poster with opposing views feel so strongly about the poster docmac?

I have seen the venomous attacks against docmac on the 3a site and he has nev er posted there.

I wonder why, too near the truth for some?

2345 said...


TRUTH is absolute and beyond your comprehension.

hope4truth said...


What an awful thing to have to go through and goes to show there are people out there that have no guilt about what they do. As normal people we cant belive anyone could do this.

Sorry to be nosey but was she charged???

2345 said...


A quick passing shot regarding the puppets 'speak' - pro or anti (McCann) is irrelevant. The point they're 'anti' the Police, forensic science and law and order. Global public are pro Police, FSS and law and order. 9.50 p.m.

Atardi said...

Just testing.

I couldn't post as Atardi.
Dutch time: 21.50

felicity said...

Thanks Merc - that sounded a lot more like the voice of reason! I have been lucky enough to get to know Doc and he is of the nicest most caring men, I have ever come across. He has used his intellect to point out to others just how they are being manipulated by McCann trolls and for that is obviously going to be attacked. Like, me, his shoulders are broad enough and we know we genuinely love children, that is all we need to know really. If the McCanns think want to foist their sickening spin campaign let them, but as you and thousands of others have pointed out - we will come back and tell them what we think of it. They are not going to get away with being brought to justice for exactly what they did to their little girl and then trying to make loads of money out of it and con people. Whether they like it or not, we will keep exercising our right to freedom of thought conscience and religion - it is a fundamental human right to freedom of speech and Gerry McCann and his paid monkey better just get used to the idea - we dont believe their spin, we will keep on explaining it is spin and we will keep on demanding the gruesome twosome and their associates get brought to justice.

Ludicrous may have got one forum closed, I do not see him being succesful elsewhere. Supertroll commented on this blog a few weeks ago, that its efforts had been successful in closing this blog down - in fact it went on to get record numbers of posts - in excess of 200 sometimes on each thread. So, as Doc, pointed out last night, the more they keep going on about me and my blog, the more they publicise its existence. They also publicise the sick manner nature of their campaign, just like on the Daily Express, laying into people who beg to differ, personally. They are not on the Daily Express tonight - maybe they got sick of their sad fight! I already know there are far more people reading it than actually post and the posters it attracts are some of the best. I feel we have won the battle to make sure the British Goverment know full well the strength of feeling about this matter, and what they can expect if we do not see the McCanns brought to justice. That process is now nearing its conclusion as the Portuguese authorities have cautiously pointed out, without giving McCanns the detail they crave as to just what is going on. Let them suffer, just like they left little Maddie to suffer, crying, left alone, terrified. I hope they are terrified too, it is a hard way to learn some empathy and dignity but learn it they must.

Thanks for your posts and support

Viv x

2345 said...


Thanks for your concern; we all learned valuable lessons with human - or should I say inhuman - behaviour. At the ripe old age of 83 father divorced her; there lies another story of threat and menace my family suffered. I acted as his Attorney with years of legal work, but she got her come uppance in the end.

She was shown in no uncertain terms that my father and family were not the carrot crunchers she took us for. Father died before it ended, but he left this world with his honour in tact. 9.00 p.m.

2345 said...


Well said ... SPOT ON.

United we stand and stronger away from the divisive DE Forum.

felicity said...

Hi 2345

I read your account of the wicked manipulative behaviour of your step- mother. She sought to control and gain access to all the money - she sounds like a typical psychopath, just like ~Gerry McCann. The Power of Attorney has dimensions of Dr Shipman - how he re-wrote that poor woman's will to gain her property and money - but came up against the daughter, a solicitor. Sadly too late to save her mom. Thank goodness for your dad having you to save him, but it must have taken a terrible toll on you and is a true horror, story. Power, control, money, complete lack of empathy. Your step-mum, Dr Shipman, Gerry McCann - they all came out the same mould. I can understand why you feel so strongly and we our lucky to have the benefit of your intelligence and insight. Thanks for sharing your personal story with us, that must have been difficult but does really help people to understand exactly what these people are like.

Able to be so charming, a very glib and superficial charm to pursue their goals, quite untrammelled by normal human emotions like guilt, sorrow, remorse and just underneath the surface a quick and violent temper - for anyone who challenges their authority. People loved Dr Shipman, whilst he planned the next victim. Yes you understand Gerry McCann, so well, as I do myself, having met his type in the course of my work as well as having studied psychology of serious offending behaviour in depth. There is no mental health treatment available for such people - prison is the place! I wish your step mother had gone there. They do not what they are doing, but they just don’t care - they just sneer at ordinary people and their emotions…
Luv Viv x

hope4truth said...


I am glad he died with his honour intact what a dispicable woman and a worrying problem..

I am glad she got her come uppance in the end what a dreadful woman it is worrying that people like her exsist your poor Dad was lucky to have you...

Carrot Crunchers I have never heard that expresionn before but I like it...

felicity said...

Hiya Hope 4 good to have you back and your calm voice of reason also. I have been reading you on the DE too:-) You handle people with such dignity - often in the face of the most aggressive and abusive behaviour - well done!

Carrot crunchers - Had not heard of that before either but it also made me smile - very apt, I think!

Viv x

felicity said...


I think you can add to that list we talking about a warped sense of humour:
19.02.08, 9:54pm

Anything new?

Phew what a day, lot going on behind the scenes (all good) will be off the best part of tomorrow too.

Is Christabel on?

• Posted by: Rosiepops

merc said...

Another secret meet at Rothley Manor?

Another sighting to be arranged?

Or extra playground duties.

Silly cow

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

How are you?

Yes the DX is a strange old place I dont know who is for real and who is not (but I can guess)...

Did you read about the sighting in France that really got to me today it was the description of her dancing if she was taken the hell that little girl will have gone through is so terrible and if she was dancing then she may have been happy.... I know it is probebly a false trail and she probebly was not taken but for a few minutes I felt some hope and when I realsied it was probebly noting I was sad.

I will not stop banging on about neglect as no parent should do this (we know they do but cant stand back and say it was ok for the McCanns)If she was taken they are paying the ultimate price.

They are their own worse enemy if they are inocent if they had said they had done wrong by leaving her but nothing. Kates "why did we think that was ok" was a question not a how could we have been so stupid why were we so selfish dont let anyone ever do this again...

Poor Madeleine she deserve for the truth to come out whatever it is do you think the PJ will ever get here???


LittleGreyCell said...


Hi Viv,

The things I was reading on the 3As site weren't fanciful in the slightest, but excellent analysis of what may well have taken place based on certain things we more or less know to be true.

Thentherewere4 (are they investigative journos?) have taken these 'facts' and applied very logical thinking to explain them: such as why the scent of a dead body was tracked by the dogs to the beach but suddenly ran cold; how JW put a very big spanner in the works when he ran into Gerry; how those involved in the cover-up modified the plan on realising this; how this explains why Kate shouted what she is reported to have cried on discovering Madeleine missing.

Give it a go - I'd love to hear what you think.


Anonymous said...

Can you provide a link to the article in el mundo in December? I have tried to find it on the el mundo website, but to no avail.

merc said...

What was the article concerning in elmundo?

Anonymous said...

The articles is the one translated into English and posted on this site today. I have since found the original article in Spanish. Thanks!

hope4truth said...


Hope you and Opus are well (are you feeling better?)

Will have a look at the 3As now (was off to bed so thanks for that)LOL

Hope to catch you soon xxx

felicity said...

• Hiya Hope - I am sorry they raise false hopes in you and then make you sad. Making us sad is what they relied on to get us to part with the cash - those tear jerking videos on Youtube were obviously intent on getting the tills ringing. I never forget the way they went into the Chuch at PDL with a bag full of that rubbish to sell and came out empty handed having done so. I am not a religious person but do recall trading is not done in religious places.

• What hope could there be when they publicised the defect in her eye? That just proves to my mind they knew she was dead and just wanted to sell her image. I think it must have proved it for the PJ to because they specifically advised them NOT to do that.

I do not blame you for keep going on about the neglect - it is evidence of what abusive parents they are, and they have the cheek to say they were making very regular checks which is an out and out lie. Maddie was crying for about an hour and half on 2 May so they did not make any regular checks then and the account of 3 May is obviously a complete pack of lies but Kate and Gerry's regular checks were 55 minutes apart! Then they have the gall to tell us the door was open too - obviously a lie.

Hiya LGC - I really do struggle to fit in going over there as well- if you could cut and paste the bit you are talking about I would happily let you know what I think but am now really tired and going to bed

Luv to you all
Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...


Hi Hope,

I'm almost completely recovered, thanks! A bit tired still, but that's probably old age.

Opus is fine, too - seems to have avoided bird flu so far. I think it's all the herring soup he's been imbibing, Penguin Penicillin ;>)

How are you? Was reading you on the DX today but was doing something else at the same time so couldn't join in with the fun. (!)

Enjoy the 3As - I wouldn't bank on you reaching your bed until next Tuesday, there's so much stuff on there. As Viv says, much of it is fantasy, but thentherewere4 is brilliantly researched and very compelling reading.

Happy browsing!

X LGC and O

LittleGreyCell said...


OK Viv, will certainly do that tomorrow - will try and condense all the interesting bits!

I'm off to bed too - we kept having power cuts last night - around 6 of them (in Surrey!) - and we were forever resetting all the digital clocks on everything thinking they'd sorted the problem, only for it to happen again and again. On/off/on/off...hypnotic, but not very condusive to sleep (where's Paul Daniels when you need him?).

Hope you have a more restful night,


Anonymous said...

Ah well

Just as I arrive, everyone is off to bed. Sleep well, will try again tomorrow (today).


Anonymous said...

I see the numpties are out again to play. Well all a regular 3 of them anyway all the rest are people talking to themselves he he.

Supertroll you were right about the multi personality disorder, what a weird spectacle it is on here. Viv talks to herself and answers herself signing as Felicity!

The only things worth reading on this site is the effective way these numpties are put in their place by Supertroll and a few others and the posts aunty viv nicks from the DE.

c ya numpties from hell.

Anonymous said...

forgot to say josiepublic why are you so scared of signing off under your usual name of Dr_Val? Are you scared of being seen posting venom on this venomous site?
read the DE and Calcite had your number didn't she/he, you silly "keyboard slug"!!!! If you do not want to be recognised you need a better memory mrs PHD.

nite nite sleep tight mind the keyboard slugs dont bite!

Anonymous said...

so docmac notdoc is not only not a doc, he is definitely not a doc in South Africa!

Liar notdoc you have not only been rumbled, you have been well and truly rumbled.

The only cat you have seen is the one on Claudia's avatar which you keep sniffing.

You are a creepy person docmac,creepy and sinister.

seriously people on here and I include aunty Viv in this, be careful of this person who calls himself docmac.
He is not a doc and he is not is Africa, what else has he lied about?

Anonymous said...

OK, I am not a doctor.
I am a dogsbody or odd jobber.

docmac 3.19 am

viv put nicks on

josiepublic said...

Dear goodness- let you out at night do they? Now I'm Dr Val? You are all barking. Doc not a real doctor either? How do you mindless cretins find your way out of the hospital grounds?

No dear you are quite right, nobody and nothing is real, only the voice of Gerry. Its all one huge conspiracy, The PJ, The FSS, Leicester police force, the Portuguese forensics lab, the phone experts they are all conspiring against your leaders Dr Frankenstein and his bride; it was the dogs idea- they dreamt it all up. Now you have a confession you can rest- go back and tell Clara to spin on it.

By the way you do know the men in white hats are coming- now we know your more used to white coats so read slowly and see if you can grasp this.

The men in white hats are the good guys- (the PJ) They work for the victim, Madeleine, who may have been harmed by her parents (the bad guys)who are suspected of hiding her body and staging her kidnap.

Still love you Viv, Plainwaters. XXXXXXXXXXXX

lizzy said...

Hi Plainwaters
I think the fact that these idiots from Team Mccann are reading and posting on Viv's blog says it all, clearly they know that unlike the DE, where they are constantly spouting their defensive rubbish in vain attempts to defend the Mccanns, there is actual factual posts on here, information and they regard it as a threat. They all on DE deny coming to Viv's site but looks to me as if they all do in the guise of supertroll and other trolls.A few of them clearly have problems, they actaully remind me of the people they are defending, aggressive,arrogant and stupid.I read an interesting article on the 3 arguidos where the poster stated that the very fact that the Mccanns feel it necessary to have explanations for the blood dna etc found in the hire car , appartment only proves their guilt as if innocent would have no explanation, fact they immediately seek to discredit evidence found proves their guilt and involvement.lizzy 8.20am

Anonymous said...

Hilarious anonymous,

I went to supertroll's blog to see what is causing all the spit, fire and vitriol. Oh I see because the map counter thing says no page views from Africa then. Well, my computer sits behind a nice big IP firewall. Your feedjit counter can't see me, eedjit. Perhaps your boss can check this with feedjit himself.

Unfortunately for you, a couple of people who post on here have photos of me at my graduation, including the name of my alma mater. If you know anyone who has graduated from university you would know that each faculty uses a different colour to line the cape. Mine was red. I'm sure they will also tell you I use a .co.za email address.

By the way, thanks for the fake post using my name at 3.19am (GMT or SA time, not sure). That's pretty sad and shows you up as yet another troll.


LittleGreyCell said...


Ohmygod, I've just realised from the above posts that I'm probably not me! Not a comedy writer (well, I'm never going to be as funny as Clarence, am I?), I don't live in Surrey (hurrah!) and my penguin turns out to be a rottweiler called Gerry.


Hang on a minute, it's all coming back to me....that's right, Docmac told me secretly he's really George W. Bush and yes! I remember now - I'm actually a brain surgeon!

In appreciation of your bringing me to my senses after all this time, Nasty Anons, I offer you my services for a course of free treatment...I happen to be free this afternoon, so nil by mouth, you lot, and we'll see if we can't implant some sort of brain by eventide.


P.S. If the McCanns were innocent, they would have no need to orchestrate such thuggish behaviour in their defence, now would they?

They certainly wouldn't be 'beating up' those who ask questions about the fate of their poor, dead child on their behalf. They would be thanking them.

But if they really DO want to save their own, miserable skins at the expense of justice for Madeleine, they should think twice about getting people who are plainly morally bankrupt to speak up for them, because you lot do nothing other than make them and their situation look even more desperate and evil.

Shame there's nobody on Team McCann who actually has the brains to realise this.

ratonthebeam said...

Morning all,

"I misspelt ratonthebeam's name by adding a 'p' in front, anyone could have made the same mistake! I also erroneously called littlegreycell 'singlegreycell'. Again this was a freudian slip and an innocent mistake. Unfortunately without my replies it seems that posters are talking to themselves. ;)"

Does this remind anyone else of a circus seal sitting on a tub, applauding itself and honking for fish?

It would be funny if it weren't so tragic. If I am ever accused of a serious crime I sure wouldn't want any of this lot speaking up for ME!

Please do not feed the troll!

Rat 09:35 GMT

Anonymous said...

Morning Dr Cell,

I can't dawdle as I have a meeting with my staff to figure a way to get Mr Obama off to Afghanistan. He's getting far too much press for our liking. Thank the Lord we don't have Gerry to compete with over here. He would make a very good Republican though. Regards,


2345 said...

Viv/Hope4truth & LGC.

French sighting has taken longer than expected, the view of many on 3A's.

Madeleine died on or around 3 May, so it definitely wasn't her. The article is usual amateurish M 3 style; the paid witness would not have been able to see small eye defect at the distance of 2 - 3 metres, as alleged. Definitely not with a child bopping up and down dancing. Journalism can't sink any lower than the gutter can it? 10.00 a.m.

P.S Ironsides downloaded an advert weeks ago on DE Forum - in short touting for 'look outs'. Seems M 3 have been too busy staging Mari's disappearance to set up French sightings until now.
Such a predictable bunch of outlaws.

2345 said...

Viv & Everyone,

Just read last night's posts. Surely only McCann relatives would be as deeply emotionally involved as the venom spitting bunch. It's the only logical explanation for the hatred they display. Love and hate are closely linked and they all hate the truth. 10.15 p.m.

Niki said...

Hi Viv and everybody, thank you for interesting posts.
2345, used hours reading topics at 3A yesterday, thank you for the advice.

I was of couriosity in to 10 Downing Streets e-petition-site, and among other interesting I found this:

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Amend Children Act 2004. More details

Submitted by Susan Yakas of None – Deadline to sign up by: 23 April 2008 – Signatures: 165

Currently The Children Act 2004
states that every child is entitled to: Be healthy Stay safe Enjoy and achieve Make a positive contribution Achieve economic well-being

To stay safe, then I ask that it is incorporated that no child under an agreed age should be left unattended by a responsible adult. The age to be ratified by suitably qualified individuals and NGO Child Care Agencies. The Law should be excercised to those who neglect within the UK and Overseas.



2345 said...


I also recommend reading thenthenwere4's thread. Just before the McCanns went to Portugal a highly lucrative NHS project Gerry was involved in at Glenfield Hospital (along with Geraghty)was derailed. According to TTW4 Gerry's cut from the deal would have set him up for life, financially. U-Tube footage of McCanns & Tapas friends in airport bus shows a glum, detached Gerry; you can hear one of his friends saying "Cheer up Gerry, you're on holiday". I also noticed Kate's physical connection to the twins and a somewhat cowed looking Madeleine beside them. Gerry looks detached, not part of the family.

It's fair to say that the failed contract hit him very hard. Gerry the youngest has all the hallmarks of a self centred spoiled child.
The Fund, raised and used under false pretences confirms his love of money.

His stress levels were, therefore, high at the start of the holiday.
In the bus video, Kate ? via transference of Gerry's state) looks far from relaxed. Her physical contact with the twins appears to be for her comfort; the pint of twins' focus is Maddie and a little girl sitting next to her.

The above has all the ingredients for a highly explosive domestic situation. Gerry probably used hard exercise to cope with stress and anger - away from the demands of family. The derailed contract followed months of hard work and firm promises of a financially secure future; I strongly suspect very hard for someone of his character to accept and digest.

If we put ourselves in Kate's shoes, she had to cope with a hot headed spoiled male as well as three children under 4 years old.
Hubby was not a happy chappy on arrival having just had a lucrative deal pulled out from under his feet.

Therefore, the content of kate's diary, reportedly of relevance to PJ, does not so much reflect her inadequacy, but rather the effects Gerry's roles as husband and father were having on her. Transference - the effects of one person's behaviour on a weaker character than their own.

Kate must be a strong person not to have cracked under enormous pressures since May. She's shown herself able to maintain self control, a characteristic lacking in her husband. I do not think this is because she's hiding her own guilt. Kate's behaviour people find so questionable appearss to be based on fear - fear of her husband.

Domestic tensions erupted around 2/3 May and Madeleine was caught in the explosion. Madeleine died but Kate remains the victim of her husband's dominating personality. He's using her, along with everyone else, as a shield for self protection and financial gain.

I read a very moving post you wrote to Kate some time ago and I second everything you said. I truly hope for her sake and the twins that criminal/psychological profiliers are monitoring Gerry and his affects on his wife. 10.55 a.m.

2345 said...


I'm glad you browsed 3 A's; such an incredible amount of intelligent reasoning, petitions etc. This case has raised public awareness and I'm sure good will come of it. More and more people are turning to Forums for information and news; the tabloids coverage is nothing but trash. 11.05 a.m.

2345 said...


I'll leave the trolls to choke on their own bile. Trolls have a mind, whereas the mumpty puppets have a body of cloth and a hollow head, operated by the hand or finger. The operator is their voice - one voice for all puppets.
In real terms, they're nothing - to themselves or anyone else.

Non-entities will be stacking shelves in Tesco when the case is over. 11.10 p.m.

LittleGreyCell said...


Hello Viv and Everyone,

As requested, here are some extracts from thentherewere4's excellent posts on the 3As. Forgive the length of this post, I've really tried to choose just the most salient points, but you'll see it's a very difficult task!

The Plan.

Madeleine was suffocated to death in the apartment and placed in her bed in the 'recovery position' which Gerry so neatly supposedly observed on his 9:00pm check,and later reported to The Times. The time of death would have been just after the twins were put down, Madeleine was held back they went to sleep and at about 7:30pm and then at some time after 7:40 and before8:00pm Madeleine breathed her last. She was then put to bed as described.

They put a corpse to bed.

The cadaver dogs detected the prior presence of a corpse in Madeleines bed.

The original plan (all the particpents only known to Gerry) was to stage a straightforward abduction with Tanner,O’Brien,and Geraghty later that evening and that hopefully would solve the problem of the body,but there was to be a change of plan and that was brought about by Jeremy Wilkins. Immediately after 'Madeleine' was put to bed Gerry phoned Geraghty and told him the game was on as arranged.
They then carried out their usual routine and went out to dine.

The Action.

As arranged at the determined timeTanner left the table and went into apartment 5A to bag the body for Gerry to come round to the front door and put it into Geraghtys car.Tanner had already carefully extracted Madeleines body from the bed, without leaving any trace of herself,having first removed Cuddle Cat that had been placed there probably by Kate.She then bagged the body on the floor,where blood was later to be found. Some of Madeleines hair was picked up from the floor by the underside of the sofa which she'd moved in order to give herself more room to work.

Geraghty arrived on time and parked in the car park and was waiting to receive the body.Then all was ready and all it now required was for Gerry to go round to the door, open it, he had the key, and put the body into Geraghtys boot.But it was not to be.Just as Gerry was on his way round to the carpark to take the body to Geraghtys boot to complete ' the abduction' Jeremy Wilkins pops up on the side road just where they'd least expect,Gerry was waylaid, Tanner saw/heard this from the open balcony steps at the back of the apartment and immediately slipped back into the apartment through through the patio doors.The smoking teenager said he saw Wilkins and Gerry but no Tanner,the only way this would have been possible is if Tanner observed the encounter at a distance and out if sight of the smoking teenager.The rear balcony would have been discreet enough to observe and overhear the adjoining streets activity.Tanner realised there had to be a change of plan, the body would have to leave the apartment by another route.

Tanner tried but she couldn't open the shutters and window by herself she needed help. Geraghty was waiting.Having got rid of Wilkins,Gerry went into 5A and Tanner told him of the problem,Gerry not wanting to dirty his hands with windows and shutters was now unwilling to use his key so he phoned Geraghty and Geraghty said if they can move the body from 5A to another apartment ie Tanner and O’Briens then he would phone Murat and tell him to come and move the body from there. That is what they agreed to do.Gerry told Tanner that the body was to be moved to their apartment by O’Brien and he would send O’Brien back out to do the transfer. Gerry returned to the Tapas Bar and Tanner was 5 min behind. Gerry alerted O’Brien of the situation and O’Brien left the Tapas Bar to go to 5A to open the shutters and window and take the body to his apartment.

O’Brien climbed through the window with the body and he then took it to their apartment and concealed it temporarily in a cupboard.
Madeleines blood was found on the exterior window cill to the apartment "Where it should not have been" according to the PJ and the cadaver dogs picked up a scent in a cupboard in Tanners apartment.

Tanner arrived back at the table and she told Kate that the body had been moved to her apartment. Tanner had no knowledge that the body had been moved on so quickly, she'd assumed that all bets were off for tonight and it would stay hidden in their apartment until they had another opportunity to move it perhaps the following evening or later that same evening.Gerry hadn't told Tanner that Murat was coming to collect the body.

Kates Check.

This in itself was very unusual, a woman doing a check, it was said by the Mark Warner staff afterwards that it was always the men who did the checking never the women he insisted. Kate had a special reason for this check,and only Kate could do it.

Kate went to Tanners apartment to check for the body and found it gone. Having not found Madeleines body at Tanners apartment she went back to her own apartment to see if there had been a change of plan and the body returned to 5A, on seeing that Madeleine wasn't there either, she concluded not unreasonably that,"They've taken her!"and it was this that she shouted from her own apartment, and running back into the Tapas Bar she addressed those whom she believed had taken Madeleine,it was accusatorial but at the same time she did not not know who the 'They' were but thinking it must be the same 'They' that had moved Madeleine to Tanners apartment in the first place.
Kate was pointing the finger in all but action at Tanner and O’Brien.

The Taxi.

The body had been hidden in Tanners apartment momentarily,until Murat arrived and it was taken from the apartment and put into the boot of Geraghtys car, O’Brien and Tanner could not effect the transfer for fear of being recognised by other guests at the complex, Murat on the other hand was an unknown face. Geraghty departed with the body and returned to his villa. Later that night at about 1:00am Geraghty was summoned by Gerry and left for Villamoura to collect Pate Perkins friend Aurelio to bring him back to PDL. This trip according to the bar owner is about one hour each way.
Geraghty returned and delivered Aurelio to The Mark Warner complex at about 3:00am.

The Rendevous.

It was too busy to take the bag there and then so Gerry arranged that Geraghty should come back nearer 4:00am when it would be quieter and he would meet Geraghty and then take the bag. Gerry left the complex with Payne just before 4:00am and met Geraghty with the car, the bag was taken out of the boot, Geraghty didn't even need to get out of the car. The transfer
happened in R.Dr.Francisco Gentil Martins, about half way down the street at a small junction on the Mark Warner side with a cul de sac. Gerry having collected the bag they then continued on down the road in the direction of the church.

The Original Plan.

The original plan was devised by Kate and Gerry in the days leading up to the 3rd of May. That plan was that O’Brien would prepare the body Tanner would be lookout and Gerry would move the body into the boot of Geraghtys car at the complex carpark outside 5A sometime between 9:00pm and 9:45pm. Gerry would take the body from 5A through the carpark door of the apartment and put it into Geraghtys car boot and it would then be disposed of. The shutters would be opened and the window opened but not used, to create the abduction myth.

The Variation.

That was the original plan,that was until Wilkins popped up and put a spanner in it by detaining Gerry for a full 25 mins and causing a rescheduling of the bodys collection from the complex and a further concealment.
Not a big change of plan but a neccessary one as Wilkins had monopolised one of the key players and O'Brien and Tanner had to work around the new conditions. The shutters and windows were opened and used.

Tanner had no idea that the body would be moved again from their apartment that evening as Gerry hadn't updated Tanner. This change occured after Tanner had left 5A to return to the Tapas Bar. Gerry didn't see the point of advising her of this change of plan as he perceived it was of no consequence wether or not she knew.

That was a big mistake on Gerrys part.

Then when Tanner told Kate that the body was in Tanners and O'Briens apartment, she believed she was telling Kate the truth,the truth as she understood it, that indeed,is where she last saw the body.

Niether Tanner nor Gerry could have anticipated the consequences of not keeping Kate in the loop.

With thanks to thentherewere4 on the 3As site.

The only thing that jars with what we 'know'from what I can see is the suffocation scenario, which doesn't explain the blood.

Anyway, there's MUCH more in many other threads on the site.

Equally as interesting is the theory that the Tapas lot were there to meet up with Murat, who would have been showing them good sites for building investment had the PFI deal not fallen through shortly before they all went out to Portugal.

Lots of food for thought...


LittleGreyCell said...


Hi 2345,

Excellent posts, as always.

This PFI thing is very interesting, isn't it? Hugely controversial politically, I think I'm right in saying that every single hospital built under this initiative goes WAY over budget - to the tune of hundreds of percent - and they give extraordinarily poor value to Local Health Authorities.

There's a lot of money to be made from PFIs...

Anyway, we now have this additional intruigue added to the mix in the mystery of what happenened to Madeleine.

And this might only be the tip of the iceberg...

On another tack, we are seeing more and more evidence of Masonic obligation in this case.

What kind of position would this put on someone very high up in government, who knows the McCanns and, being a Mason themselves, has an obligation to aid them to the best of their ability? This presumably would override any obligation they had to see justice done??


felicity said...

Hello peeps - what a great read. I have seen the pics of Doc graduating etc but why bother to defend yourself against what the troll writes! That feedjit thing only works if you actually post on the things site - and I am sure you all have better things to do that that seemeingly even the troll would rather be on here trying to rub shoulders with normal people!


I have to go out for the afternoon but will be back this evening and will have a proper look at those long interesting posts then

PLainwaters - fab to see you back and I still love you tooxxxxxxxxxxxx

Viv x

ratonthebeam said...

Are you joking? What makes you think they could trace an IP address, when they actually think you can "prove" stuff with a feedjit map!!!

Rat 12:37 GMT

2345 said...


TTW4's investigative ability is pretty astounding. Whilst it appeared to add complications, it makes the whole sordid business far easier to understand. To my mind, things must have been pretty tense in the McCann family at the time they went on holiday.

There are only two things which do not make complete sense to me in the thread of info. I did ask TTW4for reasoning behind, theory of suffocation, but can't as yet find a reply. May be I've missed it.
I think it highly unlikely Maddie's demise was premeditated or caused by suffocation and do not accept either theory. The forensic evidence released on 7 September indicate profoundly traumatic injury applicable more to a heavy blow than, say, the limited amount of pressure required to smother a small child.
The reported blood spray left the body or hand of perpetrator with great force to land when found.
Such blood spray and cerebal fluid loss is not conducive to covering a child's airway (nose and mouth) to cause death. I do not believe it was premeditated because parents had access to medication.
IF a parent had decided to kill a child in cold blood, the quickest and easiest method would be to overdose sedation alone and/or do so prior to suffocation. Forensics show this didn't happen;
"blood spray commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx, plus cerebal fluids, indications of a broken neck or fractured skull", strongly suggest a non-premeditated, severe blow. More akin to loss of temper and physical control than anything else.

Cancelled contract was obviously a severe blow, and caused Gerry much stress. A premeditated elimination of one child for economic reasons makes little or no sense. This placed both his and Kate's high earning careers on the line and is counterproductive thinking. Premeditated also entailed a cover up and corpse disposal etc.

The only plausible explanation is Madeleine caught an accidental, fatal blow in a highly charged domestic row. High stress levels was the trigger and the cancelled contract caused the stress.

I also question one other theory of TTW4 and that is Murat's role.
Having witnessed Gerry's controlling character, involving anyone who was not 110% trustworthy or bound by Masonic code etc. is not likely.
However, Murat's links to the McCanns are deeper than at first realised. Even so, as a Portuguese resident, Murat risking imprisonment on behalf of Gerry doesn't not 'feel' right.

Those who helped Gerry hide and transport the body must have volunteered. Those involved knew they could face a lengthy prison sentence; Gerry wouldn't chance a whistle blower. I think Murat's involvement and knowledge is more periphery. He was closely connected to PJ with translating etc; high risk factor to my mind.

Forensics leave me convinced Madeleine accidentally caught the crossfire of a fight between her parents. Post mortem would have shown the severity of the blow meted by one or other parent, most likely Gerry, clunk click - behind bars - end of career as well as end of lucrative PFI contract.
Kate's behaviour, in all respects, strongly suggests she's lying for Gerry, not herself. I was suspended by DE for suggesting it and permanently banned for producing the damning forensics - verbatim FSS information in Jane Hill's report.

Gerry's been fighting the truth since early May and had been silenced in that Forum. DE lied in doing so, saying I had repeatedly ignored warnings despite the fact not one was issued.

Since then, people like Viv & Docmac are targetted and vilified in DE Forum and here simply because they're a threat to desperado Gerry. He's as transparent as daylight.

Kate's future with him is 'holy deadlock', threat and fear. Madeleine's untimely death was the result of her parents' stressful marriage. 1.00 p.m.

IF this was the plan, killed

Whilst TTW4 suggested no motive for accidental dea

2345 said...


Sorry, typo in last post - should read "Gerry's been fighting the truth since early May and had ME silenced ..... 1.10 p.m.

Anonymous said...


Forgive my ignorance, but could you explain to me what PFI is? I'll read your reply later.

Thanks, hope you are having a great day.


2345 said...


Great News:

Abreviated - main points of "distilled information imparted to Coldwater includes:

Nowhere near closure, charges will only arrive when the investigation is at an end and not before.

Investigation focussing on May 2nd 10.00 p.m. to 3 May 10.00 p.m. - in which it is now considered several crimes were committed.
Theory is Madeleine died around midnight May 2nd and was concealed in a bag. The bag is a damning piece of the jigsaw, but not the only and the BEST.

Boot specimens - items pertaining to Maddie and taken from her were removed, hidden in the tyre well and dumped elsewhere. NO SUGGESTION OF PAEDOPHILE ACTIVITY/

Further questioning is to take place shortly and will encompass ALL TAPAS 9 elements plus others. It is now expected that two others will be made or allowed to request Arguido Status. These two others are seen as complicit in events in aftermath of events surrounding Madeleine.

Case not finished yet - has a way to run".

CCTV footage of Tapas checking times suggests not as stated - indicated regular checks to avoid appearing negligent.

Are we allowed to copy and paste articles to this site from 3 A's ? If so, could someone please tell me how to do it as I'm happy to oblige. Many thanks. 1.50 p.m.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello 2345,

Yes, I'm with you on the suffocation thing. Otherwise, where would the blood have come from, and why would they have cleaned the apartment and washed the curtains? Along with Cuddle Cat (more than once)?

And why would there have been blood deposits in the car?

On the premeditation theory, many have asked thentherewere4 what they think the motivation for killing Madeleine would be. I haven't seen an answer, but this does not mean they haven't posted one. Like you, I believe reducing the size of the family to be a non-starter...

...although, I do feel that Madeleine was not a child with whom either parent particularly bonded.

Has it been established yet that GM was biologically Madeleine's father? I thought I had read somewhere that he was, after all.

Anyway, ages ago I read a theory about her possibly suffering from an autistic spectrum condition called CHARGE. Here's a link to the official organisation:-


If you look at the features of this condition on that link, they include:-

-coloboma of the eye in 80-90% of sufferers
-restricted growth
-prominent forehead
-arched eyebrows
-prominent nasal bridge
-possible heart defect and other major problems

On another site I read that learning difficulties are also often present, although these may not manifest until later on in childhood.

IF Madeleine had this condition, this could explain why she was a difficult child. Those with CHARGE syndrome may also require lots of ongoing medical intervention.

K & G give the impression of being quite into status - perhaps they found it hard to come to terms with a child with this kind of disability, if that was the case?

I think there are some photos of Madeleine looking perhaps a little like she is within the autistic spectrum. Just my opinion...

I'm not saying Madeleine's death was premeditated, merely that the psychological bond with her may not have been very strong, and so whoever it was who struck the fatal blow may have given in to provocation in a way they might not had it been another child.

Regarding Murat, TTW4 write that he was falling over himself to please the Tapas lot. I shouldn't have thought it would have taken a huge nudge for him to offer his services in any way possible. We don't know what sort of character he has - just because the McCanns have tried to frame him, doesn't necessarily mean he is white than white.


2345 said...


Nice to see your name again - great day since reading Coldwater's update above !

PFI should read pdf - apologies.
On 3 A's site, front page under Justice for Madeleine is thethenwere4's amazing thread. This is where I found out about The Leiecester Pathways £921 m. building programme - dragging on for years, was finally turned down by Leicester NHS Trust. Gerry's Hospital at Glenfield was on the list for huge infrastructure investment. It then says pdf - of the decision with website link.
Just checked it, document no longer available.

The focus of the thread is Gerry's connections to 'Geraghty' along with the latter's connections to Leicester Partnership Trust. He also happened to be spokesman for builders Laing O'Rouke involved in the building programme turned down by Leicester NHS Trust just before the McCanns went to Luz.

The same thread also covers links between McCanns and Geraghty's villa near Luz. Both Masons and interesting information regarding Geraghty's grand daughters press comments.

Sorry I cannot answer your question, but I do not know what 'pdf of the decision' (building programme closure means).

As I understand it in broad terms, Government is increasingly involving BIG public sector money with NHS initiatives. In return, BIG names receive a nice financial slice of the cake.

LCG commented on this earlier this morning and has a better understanding of the financial NHS initiatives and the ramifications
of privatized operators. Gerry, apparently, was lined up for his slice for life. 2.15 p.m.

Anonymous said...


Madeleine did not possess the classical facial features of CHARGE Syndrome which are often quite striking, but it is an interesting idea.

Of more interest to me personally is that coloboma is associated with the maternal use of cocaine during pregnancy. Long term coke users are thin (which is why it is so popular with 'celebs', irritable and prone to severe mood swings amongst many other effects. The very first time I saw a picture of Kate I thought she looked like a coke-head and she resembles one even more now. Just a thought.


LittleGreyCell said...

Oo, last post above posted at 14.00

This one at 14.25

Hello Docmac,

Mind if I leap in on behalf of 2345?

PFI stands for Private Finance Initiative, and is how many capital investments the UK Government should be making for the country's infrastructure are now financed by private consortia. Many hospitals are now built in this way.

Construction firms are contracted to design, build and manage such projects, with contracts usually lasting around 30 years. The local authority then leases the building from the contractors, often paying them to run it for them too.

This way the public purse does not have to find huge sums of money upfront to provide what it should be providing for its citizens, although the eventual cost to the public purse is collossal. And there's massive scope for fraud.

John Geraghty, a very rich man who has a villa in Praia da Luz and who helped the McCanns out there, is a fellow Mason. His business is construction, and he has strong links to the Leicestershire Partnership NHS.

Briefly, he is an Estates Manager for the NHS, whilst also being involved with a multi-million pound project for a PFI, which would have made him VAST vats of dosh had it not been finally turned down by the Leicestershire NHS just prior to the Tapas Lot's jolly holiday in Portugal. Conflict of interest notwithstanding (perhaps he overlooked this bit - easily done).

"The Leicester Pathways was a huge multimillion pound £921 million to be precise building programme that has been dragging on for years and finally has been turned down by the Leicestershire NHS trust.

Naturally Gerrys hospital at Glenfield was on the list for a huge infrastructure investment from Laing O’Rourke and Geraghty was the builders man on the ground there."

thentherewere4, from the 3As site.

Fancy building your own hospital, Doc, and living off the proceeds for life? I know a man you can call...


Anonymous said...

2345 and LGC

Thanks for that very, VERY interesting info. I'll have to ponder over it later as I'm being dragged kicking and screaming to do some shopping!

Much appreciated.


LittleGreyCell said...


Thanks, Doc. Well, it wasn't my idea, but as you say, interesting to explore - although I still think Madeleine does have something of an autistic spectrum look in some shots. I am related to someone who works peripherally in the field, so have an interest in it from this aspect...


LittleGreyCell said...


Docmac - enjoy the shopping trip!

Upon your return:-

Apart from being thin, what look gives cocaine users away? What makes you think Kate isn't just naturally thin, has an eating disorder, and so on?

Is cocaine highly addictive like alcohol and cigarettes? Would it be hard to give it up whilst pregnant?

I wonder at what point she thought her maternal feelings would kick in, if this was the case?

Grrr. There are so many horrible aspects to this case...


2345 said...


Even though Murat was fawning over Tapas group - there is some connection with property development in this - I cannot believe Gerry would trust him to keep quiet and keep him out of jail. That's the bottom line in this.

Yesterday, I read a very interesting lengthy thread on Madeleine, switched photos, some showing coloboma, some not. Interestingly, Interpol details of Madeleine only mention a small dot on the iris. There are many photos of Madeleine at around 2 years of age looking totally normal in all respects. Secure children are hard work, but not 'difficult'. My initial reaction to a child named 'difficult' is to ask are the parents providing for the child's emotional as well as physical needs? If not, the child will definitely 'kick off' to get their needs noticed and met.

There are exceptions; my friend's son went berswerk with certain E group additives. This was years ago and she fought to get her GP to acknowledge it. Dietary control cured him.

This is my theory. Kate's diary we're led to believe shows a mother struggling to cope. I believe one of the answers lies with having a self centred husband. However, it helps her case to persuade the public that Madeleine was disordered and 'difficult'. One symptom you say is a coloboma. Inserting this into photos released to the public explains what it's exists on these, but not others.

The McCanns will stop at nothing to save themselves. I am a mother of three, have worked with under 5's and the photos I've seen of Maddie is a normal healthy child. I suspect not a happy child due to home life, but no more no less.

The point is that a coloboma does not come and go and is definitely not in all the photos. I'll check out the 3 A's thread - there's one about Maddie's growth (different photos used) and another are there two Madeleine's?

Do you remember in DE Forum Kate's excuse for blood in apartment was Madeleine fell on plane steps and cut her shin. No sign of injury in any other photo. Sharp observers say she looks shorter in video released of her stumbling on plane steps - ? another holiday @ - more than likely. She also lands on her hands.

I never underestimate the lengths mastermind has taken to extricate himself and Kate from damning forensic evidence. I believe Kate was unhappy and unsupported in her marriage and parenting and probably still is. Father's busy being a celebrity. 2.45 p.m.

2345 said...


Thanks for info regarding PFI; I was out of my depth. 2.45 p.m.

LittleGreyCell said...



Maybe Murat accidentally saw or heard something he shouldn't have done? In which case, getting him involved with the cover-up would be a smart thing to do, because then he'd have a very good reason to keep quiet about it all if he didn't want to implicate his own complicity.

The other thing about the coloboma is that the keyhole effect is supposed to be a Masonic sign, and it has been suggested by some that it was included on the posters to alert Masons to do their duty...

Am beginning to realise what a quiet life I lead.

I believe you and I live in the same neck of the woods, 2345 - well, it's not exactly the sticks, is it, and yet every time I go up to London these days - 30/40 miles away? - I feel like a country bumpkin! Sounds like Leicestershire is far too racy for the likes of me...

Oh, you're welcome re: PFI. One of many issues causing smoke to emerge from my ears during my Politics Degree...

X LGChimney

supertroll said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Hi to everyone
I have been reading all this info., on3 argudios for many weeks now, and I am sure there is something very sinister behind all this protection. I remember a few months ago that Gordon Brown said ''WE have to perpare the public for the truth'' this got me wondering what could be so awful we need to be prepared.

I don't envy the PJ trying to get through this maze of 'cover up'tactics, with their high profile lawyers,wealthy benefactors, PR stunts and 24 hour protection.

Anonymous said...

I do not know about the laws in your country, but I know that in the U.K.the police are very interested in threating mail,stalking and harrassment.They have experts who can trace this persons provider through their blog.The law against stalking and harrassment is a £5,000 fine and 6 years imprisonment
dolores 15.32

2345 said...


I love the country life and simplicity. Same cycles with wildlife bears no comparison to the complexities and behaviour in this case - man made !

Apologies if I've mentioned this before (keep popping between her and 3A's), but Interpol details of Madeleine on 3 A's cites distinguishing mark as a dot on iris of right eye. I still think this was concocted and doctored on publicity photos to back up and underpin a difficult child due to some syndrome or other.

The McCanns have no qualms about shifting blame and concocting implausible stories. I believe Madeleine was normal in all respects; her parents were dysfunctional and she died as a result. I've learned something new today about colobama and charges syndrome. I doubt Madeleine had either.

Do you ever wonder what the future will be like for the twins? 3.25 p.m.

I take your point regarding keyhole sign and Masonic link.

2345 said...


Is someone posting in your name?
The post to docmac is not at all like you - threats of fines ?

Seems the puppet master's given a different set of orders today. 4.10 p.m.

2345 said...


I understand - empty headed puppet has paid an insulting visit. This Forum is causing alarm. 3.50 p.m.

Anonymous said...

I posted docmac regarding the threatning letter above from 'supertroll'to him. I did it out of concern that this person must be stopped I will email the police myself regarding the harrassment and stalking and threats.
dolores xx 15.49

2345 said...


Thanks, I realized after I'd written it. I should have scrolled back first.

Yes, Gordon Brown's comment of "We have the prepare the public for the truth" says it all. Jane Tanner type slip of the tongue !!
He is involved, has no right to support prime suspects in a child's death or disappearance or pervert the course of justice.

He was publicly condemned by a Judge a few days ago; held him accountable for the death of an ill equipped soldier on night duty in Iraq. As Chancellor, he cut the defence budget and support Bliar in sending our sons to War.
I'm glad he's been publicly slammed; my nephew served in Iraq and the troops aren't properly equipped or protected. Would Bliar or Brown send one of their sons there ?

Ironic, Brown sends ill equipped innocent people to their death, whilst supporting prime suspects in their daughter's death and disappearance. I hope he's charged with wasting Police time/perverting the course of justice along with the rest of them. 4.10 p.m.

Anonymous said...

I think that is what the troll wants. And it will compromise Doc's anonymity too.

Anonymous said...

2345 /hi
The whole way our country is being run is unacceptable,Iworry for our childrens future if it does not improve.And this latest report below is another example of negligence.We are being bombarded with one after the other.

CPS asked to begin inquiry into data blunder.

The Crown Prosecution Service has been asked to begin an inquiry into why a disc holding DNA details of thousands of suspected foreign criminals was left unchecked for a year, Gordon Brown said today.
The attorney general had asked the CPS to investigate the matter, the prime minister told the Commons.
Whitehall last night admitted that the disc containing the details of 2,000 suspects wanted by the Dutch authorities for crimes such as murder and rape lay on a desk at the CPS for a year after being "ignored" by officials.

xx 16.16

Anonymous said...

I think there is a plot to bring down this site, and the posters here for posting their ideas.

Anonymous said...

We must be hitting a nerve then, I notice that the 3 arguido's have now got a back up site if anything happens,and they refuse to be silenced.Trolls have no control.

Anonymous said...

I see a constant attempt to discover docmac's identity by these people. Even if it involves harassment charges.
Why do you think this is?

2345 said...


You've answered your own inane question !! 4.35 p.m.

Anonymous said...

I don't trust this troll, too provocative.
My advice, ignore him and don't let him/her get the better out of you.

dolores said...

Viv I don't know who I am talking to anymore.Hope you are well cara.
(just so you know it's me)
xx D 17.04

2345 said...

anon puppet,

Your colours show - yellow with jealous, green with envy and red with rage. Toddle off. 5.25 p.m.

Anonymous said...


The Internet provides the perfect forum for cyberbullies, individuals whose aim is to gain gratification from the distress caused by provoking and tormenting others. The anonymity, ease of provocation, and almost infinite source of targets means the Internet is full of predators from pedophiles targeting children to serial bullies targeting ... anybody.

Many serial bullies are also serial attention-seekers. More than anything else they want attention. It doesn't matter what type of attention they get, positive or negative, as long as they can provoke someone into paying them attention. It's like a 2-year-old child throwing a tantrum to get attention from a parent. The best way to treat bullies is to refuse to respond and to refuse to engage them - which they really hate. In other words, do not reply to their postings, and on forums carry on posting without reference to their postings as if they didn't exist. In other words, treat nobodies as nobodies.

The objectives of bullies are Power, Control, Domination, Subjugation. They get a kick out of seeing you react. It doesn't matter how you react, the fact they've successful provoked a reaction is, to the bully, a sign that their attempt at control have been successful. After that, it's a question of wearing you down. The more your try to explain, negotiate, conciliate, etc the more gratification they obtain from your increasingly desperate attempts to communicate with them. Understand that it is not possible to communicate in a mature adult manner with a disordered individual who's emotionally retarded.

The anger of a serial bully is especially apparent when they come across someone who can see through them to the weak, inadequate, immature, dysfunctional aggressive individual behind the mask.

The first rule for dealing with this type of behavior is: don't respond, don't interact and don't engage. This is not as easy to do as it sounds. It's a natural response to want to defend yourself, and to put the person right. However, never argue with a serial bully; it's not a mature adult discussion, but like dealing with a child or immature teenager; whilst the serial bully may be an adult on the outside, on the inside they are like a child who's never grown up - and probably never will. Serial bullies and harassers often have disordered thinking patterns and do not share the same thoughts or values as you.

Second, keep all abusive emails. Create a new folder, perhaps called "Abuse", and move hate mail and flame mail into this folder. You don't have to read it. When the time comes to take action, this folder of hate mail and flame mail is your evidence. Bullies, especially cyberbullies, are obsessive people and if their account is closed down you may start receiving mail from another address. This can later be compared to the abusive emails you've already received to identify the perpetrator. You'll find the same words, phrases and strategies occurring. If you receive abusive emails or flame mails or hate mail, you can forward it to abuse@isp where "isp" is the service provider the abuser is using, eg "aol.com" or "yahoo.com". Although Internet service providers may not act on every complaint, the more complaints they receive about a particular individual (with examples of abusive email) the more likely they are to close down the person's account.

Third, become alert to provocation. It could be called "The Baiting Game". A provocative comment is made and those who respond spontaneously in irritation are then targeted for further "attention".

Fourth, become an observer. Although you may be the target of the cyberbully's anger, you can train yourself to act as an observer. This takes you out of the firing line and enables you to study the perpetrator and collect evidence. When people use bullying behaviors they project their own weaknesses, failings and shortcomings on to others. In other words, they are telling you about themselves by fabricating an accusation based on something they themselves have done wrong. Whenever you receive a flame mail or hate mail, train yourself to instinctively ask the question, "What is this person revealing about themselves this time?"

Fifth, decide if you want to take action, and if so, prepare carefully and strike hard. Sometimes refusing to respond and engage will result in the cyberbully losing interest and going off to find someone easier to torment. Sometimes though, especially if there has been interaction in the past, the cyberbully is so obsessed that s/he cannot and will not let go. You will have to make that person let go, but only through swift, hard, legal action, and only when the time is right. Don't deal with the abuser yourself (this encourages bullies and stalkers), use a third party such as a Lawyer.

Internet stalker profile:

lives in a 1-room apartment which hasn't been cleaned for months - if ever

has stacks of pornographic magazines in his bedroom area

has poor personal hygiene

has poor table manners

has poor social etiquette

hasn't changed the sheets on his bed for months, which are now best described as crusty

has a bathroom, the state of which doesn't bear thinking about

lives on pizza and beer/coke, the remnants of which litter his apartment

may have an unusual pet (eg ferret) which has free run of the apartment

is either significantly over- or under-weight

has a small moustache or other facial hair

has not held down any job for more than a couple of years, probably less

has no friends

has no life outside the Internet

The Internet stalker probably has other unpleasant characteristics that sexual harassers possess, and the usual sexual inadequacy including lack of intimacy, controlling behavior, no concept of the partner's needs, premature ejaculation, and an abnormal belief bordering on obsession in his smallness.

2345 said...


Hope you've all seen my 'great news' post - relay oc Coldwater's comments thanks to Bjr on 3 A's earlier today. 5.40 p.m.

dolores said...

I did read this article by coldwater a few days ago, and it convinced me even more that the desperation of G & K to hold onto their freedom is paramount.Their desire to be wealthy is very important to them. I also read that the deal fell through on this venture, hence his unhappiness on the bus from the airport.
xD 18.12

LittleGreyCell said...


Goodness, Metodo3 do like to carry out their work in the Med, don't they?



Anonymous said...

2345, Coldwater maintains that there is no Tapas 1 that has broken ranks.

According to him all was done and dusted before the night of the 3rd.

These 2 facts alone are not what docmac has already said.

I has broken ranks and implicates JT...did not get up from table

ROB did not return to the table.

Gerry would not allow the GNR to be called until ROB was back in the fold.


dolores said...

This is the latest on this sighting.It's like Around the World in 80 days
xD 18.57

The French trail leads nowhere!

Despite the information disclosed by "Hart van Nederland", the French track does not lead to Madeleine. Indeed, contacted, the police confirmed having made his investigation on the spot.The identity of the pseudo Madeleine was known to the police services as well as the individual who accompanied. They did, of course, nothing to do with the small Madeleine. The authorities did not wave with this investigation. First, because there was no reason to mediate an audit that looked unlikely .. Indeed, it is difficult to imagine a "kidnapper" go to the restaurant with a girl also mediate and let dancing as if nothing had happened! Secondly, be to Portugal as part of an international judicial cooperation. This is the umpteenth person claiming to have seen Madeleine alive. Each time, the checks have led nowhere.

dolores said...

Little Grey Cell
Sorry I forgot to add your name to my post above.

LittleGreyCell said...


Hi Dolores,

I think the Modus Operandi is for Metodo3 to travel the world, 'planting' Madeleine lookalikes.

Interesting how it was a Dutch tourist who spotted the girl.

Didn't K & G used to live in Holland? Or is it just that I was 100% sure I'd seen them there?

X LittleGreyClog

hope4truth said...


You must be very much in demand in the comedy writing world you make me laugh so much...

Glad you are feeling better just been readng your post from 3As I started last night then the PC crashed (there is a god I was so tiered so went to bed)...

No news again I wish Madeleine was dancing but know there is little chance of this...

dolores said...

You are not losing the plot they do have connections in Holland
I lose it myself sometimes,to much for my brain to absorb,we all forget little things.
I just pray this coniving pair, get put away for a very long time.They are so devious.
xxxD 19.16

hope4truth said...


You must be very much in demand in the comedy writing world you make me laugh so much...

Glad you are feeling better just been readng your post from 3As I started last night then the PC crashed (there is a god I was so tiered so went to bed)...

No news again I wish Madeleine was dancing but know there is little chance of this...

hope4truth said...

Oh no I accidently posted the same thing 3 times (got a bit impatinet with the post your coment buton) now it looks like I posted something dodgy and removed it LOL


LittleGreyCell said...


Hello Hope, Hello Hope, Hello Hope ;)

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Thanks for your lovely comment - a freelancer will always say they could be MORE in demand to make up for those times when they are more free than lancing...

Isn't there a lot of stuff on the 3As? Some excellent work by thentherewere4. I reckon some of the details need to be sorted, but in essence, what they post falls into place with what we know. Once it's there on the page, it all seems to make sense, doesn't it?

Oo, supper's ready...back later...


hope4truth said...


I am sure you are not lancing free very often..

3As has so much info I get lost..

May catch you later...


Anonymous said...


When I first saw Kate it was her weight that first attracted my attention. But it was the eyes which aroused my interest. Even in that first still that I saw there was no sadness displayed. It's a restless, yet disinterested look that I find difficult to put into words. The kind of thing that you would have noticed better in the TV interviews. It's my opinion only. Of course coke is addictive long term and once tolerance develops the addict needs and takes enormous amounts to satisfy the craving. The term 'chasing the high' was coined for this condition and has been driving crime (robbery, theft) probably more than any other drug for many years, though metamphetamine is catching up, and fast.

2345 and Merc

I did not read that as I've been out. I know that poster has different views re the Tapas 1. I have not read the posts, have no idea of the source and will not dispute what that source's personal knowledge is. I'll stick to my own source though thanks.


I'm not biting. I have explained how pathetic their method was for 'proving' that I don't live in Africa was. They are going to have to try other methods to 'rumble' me now. Small things amuse small minds. Certain Pros have been after me for months. They now have the opportunity to try in a much nastier and threatening way. That blog has nothing to do with Madeleine at all, it's just a hate site, far more so than they ever accused this one of being. But all they do is confirm what I said about them months ago on the DE when I got banned for calling the gang (and I mean gang) leader a low-life. I have respect for one Pro only. Her name is Elizabeth. I think all the rest are as thick as old walls.


dolores said...

I know what you are saying I get so incensed with bullies, I feel they should never get away with it, or let them think they have a hold on us. It is the defensive mechanism of my nature I expect, I am fiercely protective of those I care for. And I will never be intimidated by them.
I will report the leader of the chain gang, if that is what it takes to stop h/she I have saved all posts she has made directly to me.And the more I get the more proof she is giving me.
xxD 20.09

hope4truth said...


Good evening hope you are well?

Why do people hate you so much reading earlier on here was strange as none of us know who the others really are do we?

I think you must have some factual information to worry people so much...

I hope this sad case has some closuer soon last night as unlikely as it is the thought of Madeleine dancing made me think she was happy and children all deserve to be happy...


Anonymous said...

Docmac, I am not doubting you or your source...I happen to believe that a tapas has broken ranks.... Coldwater has recently said that he has 1 source in the media and 2 in law enforcement.

Take care.

Could Kate be bi-polar?

lizzy said...

Hi Docmac,
I agree with you re the fact Kate possible uses Coke, I work with quite a few Cocaine users and you learn to recognise the signs, I thought on the Panorama interview she looked as if she was possibly on it then. Its the dead look in the eyes, but shifty at the same time, and can't be bothered kind of manner when speaking. I think you are right about the DE , at night in particular the Pro's have nothing of interest to discuss and it just becomes a bitching session. I hardly post there now as it is quite boring reading the same rubbish defending the gruesome twosome from them. I believe most of them are related to the Mccanns , hence their similar arrogance and aggressive behaviours. Re the Government, it is obvious they are delaying re the Rogatory letters, I don't believe they want the Mccanns charged and certainly are taking their time in giving the green light for the interviews to take place.I just hope that they take place soon. Lizzy 20.15

Niki said...

Copied from Mccannfiles.com 20.February
British mute about the rogatory letter 24 horas

(Translation by 'Li' from the3arguidos)

Researchers of Maddie's case are waiting

The Public Prosecutor of the Portimão's court, Magalhães e Menezes as well as the team that conducts the investigations concerning Madeleine McCann are losing their patience with the delay of the British authorities in giving green light to the execution of the rogatory letter, sent more than two weeks ago to that country. "This is reaching unacceptable proportions. In a case like this, if there was cooperation, the rogatory letter would be fulfilled in less than a month.

This is going on since October last year with the English returning the letter and making mere bureaucratic demands. We already sent a new rogatory more than two weeks ago and the only thing we have is the silence of the police and diplomatic authorities", said a responsible connected to the process. "Like this is difficult to make an investigation", concluded the source connected to the investigation.

* Note: According to the Daily Mirror report of 16 February 2008, the rogatory letters were received at the Home Office on 03 Februaury 2008
Looks like you are right Lizzy...

Good night all
Niki 22.32

ratonthebeam said...

voor docmac

Gij moet de Supertroll blog nu lezen. Dit is belangrijk. Gelieve te zijn zeer voorzichtig omdat deze mensen zijn eenvoudig kwaad en zouden wensen gij bijzonder schaden. Email aan mijn ident bij tiscali.co.uk

Groetjes, rat 20:32 GMT

lizzy said...

Hi Niki
I have a close relative who is a top civil servant and works closely with the top politicians, he told me a while back that GB does not want this couple charged and will do a much as possible behind the scenes to ensure they are not. I believe him as he works and has dealings with them,but he may not be able to prevent charges if the Portugese police have sufficient evidence, I hope not anyway.I think also that he is an ambitious man and wants to remain PM, so hopefully will make sure our Government cooperates with the Police.But they certainly seem in no rush to authorise these letters. Lizzy 20.40

Anonymous said...


"I am fiercely protective of those I care for."

Wonderful words, Dolores. I'm sure most of the Tapas 9 would say exactly the same. It's just a pity that in their case small children were excluded from the equation.


PS sorry for delay, I'm watching football. I will answer others too, be patient with me.

irina said...

Hello Everyone,
Another day without Clara? How odd.

Things must be getting serious.

It could be that arrival of PJ would not be announced.

May be lawyers are busy making deals?

Interesting that pros are still in action - they do not have a clue what is going on either. They just busy biting, like mad, blind rats.

Viv, can publishing on the blogs of some of the theories jeopardize prosecution?

Doc,your theory about T1, supported by published statement of a lawyer in Sol I think. Does anyone know who he is?

Anonymous said...

Hi Hope

I'm well thank you, as I hope you are.

It is a bitter sweet image you bring up, Madeleine dancing. I'm sure she is dancing now.

I have never been hated by anyone before. It's a new experience for me. I've never hung out with child neglecters either. The sustained attacks even though I hardly post any longer must mean I said something they really didn't like. Still, I'm not alone in being a target. Anyone who has their screen name either misspelled or manipulated beware!


Anonymous said...

I think you are right re the coke- a-cola. The tv prog, I also agree, the behaviour could inidcate so. I do not know how to post on this site if I am posting in the wrong place many apologies. I always read here. Well I do not know if I should be flattered as someone or lots do not like what I post on the DE as both my profiles have been suspended,Zodiac/Zephyr suspension now means ban. I have no doubts Dopeypopsmum21, leader of the walah team McC doby, were hitting the report button. Wa, wizard posted means 'in charge' and according to the Urban dictionary doby means 'poop'. In charge of/team leader to poop sums he/she up perfectly. I think I annoyed them with mentioning the neglect. 20/02/08 21.00hrs

hope4truth said...


I think we are all hated which is a new experience for me as well.. I was attacked the other night for pretending to be all sweetness and light?


Because I believe children have a right not to be neglected and a right to be put first.

What a strange case this has been poor Madeleiene seems to have been forgotten she had rights but her parents seem to have more.

If either of my children were missing I would for go all of my rights as I would want all focus to be on them...

So Sad...

hope4truth said...


Have you been banned? What for???

I keep posting on the DX but there is not much point very strange posters some of the posters they seem to have lost their old personality and are posting in a whole new way only to come back again as they once were???

All very odd.... Good to see you...

Anonymous said...


IMO Kate has more than one psychiatric ailment. Bipolar disorder is commonly associated with various personality disorders. I won't put my head on a block, it's not my field at all.


The thing that really pissed me off on the DE forum is that one can patiently explain factual information (eg legal, medical, Keela's expertise etc) to one or more Pros and they come back days or even weeks later and pretend they never heard it. They just blithely revert to the original inaccurate information and present it as fact again, most often to newish posters. The grooming and attemted recruitment of new posters is quite sickening to witness. Rosiepops tried it on me when I joined.


Niki said...

Hi again Lizzy, I hope your PM has learnd from his mistakes and wont interfer again with individual cases...

Probably you have all read this before, but hope you dont mind me posting it again:

From 10.Downing Street site:

PM thanks Portugal for Madelaine efforts9 July 2007

Gordon Brown has thanked the Portuguese authorities for their work in trying to locate missing British child Madelaine McCann.

At a joint press conference with Portugeuse Prime Minister Jose Socrates, Mr Brown said that both he and the McCann family appreciated the "time and effort and dedication" being put into the investigation.

He said:

"Obviously there are issues [the McCann family] want to be assured about and I have raised these with the Portuguese Prime Minister. He has assured me that everything that can be done will be done and obviously we look for progress in something that's heart-rending in its sadness, that a young child can be separated from her parents for so long.''

Mr Socrates said the case of the missing three-year-old was important for Portugal as well as for Britain, and that Portugeuse police had "dedicated to this investigation all the resources we have".


ratonthebeam said...

Tonight the performing seals are all congratulating each other on the latest "sighting" and accusing the PJ of sending the Rogatory Letters by horse and cart! Some of them have even gone so far as to claim they don't exist! Maybe they are being delivered by Paedophile Abductor......

rat 21:18 GMT

Anonymous said...


Het gestuur, hopelik na die regte plek.


Anonymous said...

Good evening everyone

There are times when I get so frustrated with the slow progression towards(hopefully) justice. I have read so many blogs,fora and the psychopathic spin in the hope of achieving truth.People on here, have given me the hope that oneday,someday there will be justice for a small little girl. Thanks Viv and all of you who ate trying to get to the core and pursuing truth.
Docmac, hoop jy geniet steeds die mooiste,mooiste Kaap. Ons word soms so "homesick",naar het juis vandag 11 dae in die Wildtuin bespreek net om weer die veld te ruik en na die sterre te kyk. Vriendelike groete uit 'n grys en kille Engeland!

Anonymous said...

Spanish forensic psychologist.

In a video he gives his opinion on the couple.

He says that as a couple they function in perfect unison. Gerry is the dominant partner and gives the orders. But the "key to the mystery is in the mother."
She shows absolutely no emotions. He goes on to say that he has studied her background before the 3rd May and she has been in treatment for psychological disturbances. He thinks she either suffers from unipolar or bipolar depression.


Anonymous said...

Groete Suiderkruis

Ja, natuurlik nog hier. Ek verkies blou oor grys! It does get pretty rainy in winter in the Cape. Still, it's the 'green season' and it's not that cold. And I get to go to Newlands as a bonus.

Het julle in Mpumalanga of Kwazulu-Natal bespreek?


Anonymous said...

Hallo docmac
We lived in SA for 38 + years(noordkaap gebore en getoe,geswot op Tuks en Maties in die eighties)before we decided to leave our beloved country.(goeie geleenthede vir my man ;n tandarts en myself 'n kliniese sielkundige) Always going back to Olifants, Letaba and the rest of Kruger.Hope you are all doing well there, and nice to see that we have a shared objective:the truth for a wee girl

irina said...

Hello docmac,
Can you look at this picture of Madeleine? I thought that it looks like she had a deformity of a spine?
Poor girl.


P.S the link is of no importance- just bigger photograph.

Anonymous said...

irina said...
Hello docmac,
Can you look at this picture of Madeleine? I thought that it looks like she had a deformity of a spine?

Get an eye test urgently.
Not doc will give you one

ratonthebeam said...


He can maybe test you for a brain while he's at it.

Anonymous said...

Not doc and co.,
Could you please stop posting in afrikaans? it is a pain having to keep loading the posts onto the translator.

Anonymous said...

Will he fly here from Africa/wherever to test my brain?
I did read that he wears a red cape.

ratonthebeam said...

Did you get that off your feedjit map? That "proves" where people are?
You really ARE brainless if you believe that one!

dolores said...

Think about what trolls are like, in books like Harry Potter, or Lord of the Rings: Big, dumb, lumbering brutes that go around bashing everyone and everything with big clubs; destroying just for the pleasure of destroying.

southerncross said...

Just wondering why people find it necessary to troll.Is the truth that much of a threat?

Anonymous said...


Kruger, fantastic. So you are going for the National Parks version (fantastic value), not the larney Mala Mala et al? Have a great time. Full of envy I am.

Noord-Kaap? I spent 4 years in Kimberley when we arrived here (primary years) before moving south.

I did my MBChB at UCT from 1979. Maybe I saw you at intervarsity, lol!

As you say too, we have something else in common, the quest for justice for the mite.


dolores said...

southern cross
Truth is an enormous threat to media manipulaters, because we have our own minds and won't be told how to think.And that really angers them.To bad huh.

lizzy said...

Hi Zephyr,
Sorry to hear you have been banned but to be honest the way the DEis now, it is probably anadvantage, I only post for short speall snow as I find the Pro's nastiness and sheer stupidity irritating.They get their kicks going after one poster in an evening and taunting them in an effort to get them banned. I think also they try to get all the intelligent posters like yourself, Viv, Ironside,2345,lgc. banned, they would love to get Docmac banned and Alsabella but so far haven't succeeded. I suppose it is a compliment that they get you banned as it is because they see you as a threat, as you are too clever for them,I enjoy Viv's blog here ,as there are so many nice people from the DE who post here and the posts are always interesting and informative.Will be nice to read your posts here too. Lizzy 22.45

lizzy said...

oops sorry bad typing I meant short spells now, im getting worse. Lizzy 22.48

Anonymous said...

Irina hi

Sorry, no spinal deformity visible there. Actually looks like a winged scapula (haha supertroll and Anonytroll, bet you would never have thought of that). This is commoner in young females, though not usually that young. Google it if you wish, but it is of academic interest only.


southerncross said...

Dolores,I am astonished how the media manipulate. Mere sheeple they would like us to be.Unfortunately some of us won't be silenced and won't swallow the spin.
docmac, ja intervarsity en jool is fond memories. We were in our first year in'79 Dagbreuk op Maties,Madelief op Tuks.Nope, larney does not do it for me(ek verkies die ou goeie bosveld,dalk bietjie commin wildtuin version lol).I'm a noordkaap Hartswater girl

josiepublic said...

What’s it like Gerry knowing the PJ are coming? You thought you could manipulate your way into the heart of the investigation but all you’ve done is show the authorities who you are. Why is it Gerry that all criminals feel the police are fools and treat them with contempt? Do you recognise that’s who you and Kate now are? What you did is known to the professionals; a book on forensic science and a police manual may make you think you can outwit everybody but that’s because you are very focused on how you think the professionals work but have very little real idea. It’s like me an ordinary Mum buying a book on open-heart surgery or a manual on car mechanics; nice thought but I’m only fooling myself- you must know that Gerry you must see lots of people who fall into that adage “A little learning is a dangerous thing.” You are not fooling us- so the professionals? No chance.

The next move is to sell up all those you promised everything to; all those who might have information about you; you will want to sell them to the authorities first- get your tuppence in first as Kate might say. Have they already outsmarted you? They might have deals already.

As for you campaign.Tell me Gerry is Clara just a fool or do you think he works for the other side? Because without PR your case would have died down by now and the chances are you might have got away with it. Do you lay awake at night or visit the white board? When you do does Kate wake and see Madeleine? Ever read Macbeth?

Its not going away Gerry you are just spinning yourselves deeper do yourselves a favour and tell the police what really happened then you can start working your way back to normality.

Then you will have my sympathy; love Plainwaters.

lizzy said...

Hi Docmac,
I agree with you re the DE,that's why I find it so boring,they don't accepts factual information and they try to bully any posters who do not share their opinion of the Mccanns innocence. I'm sure some of them actually do have emotional /mental problems as they become very aggressive very easily and seem to swing from one mood to another.Rosiepops half of the time is a man am sure, sometimes she seems quite articulate and at others makes simple grammatical mistakes, such as we done instead of we did.
She obviously didn't study Latin at school or she would be more aware of tenses....lol
I find them all odd to be honest and so only go on there for short spells to see the nice people.Lizzy 23.00

Anonymous said...

Supertroll post,
very true.

You miss the point. it doesn't matter what I think happened that night, or what you think or Viv, or Rosiepops and the other pros.
None of us know and it is up to the police, prosecutors and eventually a judge or jury to decide what happened.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I will always respect that. What I cannot respect is the constant speculation, lies and bickering that goes on and on in the internet.
I find this totally inappropriate and immoral, people seem to forget that this is not entertainment, it is not a whodunnit, and that there is a real tragedy with real grieving people.
I have read your posts before and I know that you feel anger because of the neglect from the parents, this is understandable but please vent your anger or discuss it in other ways.
Take stock, read some of the other posters here, some are really really creepy and nasty. The answers are not here, nor will they be here tomorrow.
Do you really want to be part of this?

Anonymous said...


Did you have to do any time at Tygerberg? My ex father-in-law was a professor of dentistry there. If your husband was there, I'll give you the name and you ask him if he remembers!! It's also where I did my paeds training. What a bloody small world.


PS you meant Dagbreek surely? Breuk is a hernia :-)

irina said...

Thanks Docmac,
I have looked it up.
Why that little question angered troll so much?
Good night all.

ratonthebeam said...

Hey, I've merited a whole paragraph all to myself on their pathetic little excuse for a blog, and they still haven't worked out that I am, in fact, a woman. Hahahahahaha!!!!!! Maybe the feedjit map thinks I am in China or something. I must be REALLY getting under some skins. We rats are born survivors, and it is our lucky year now too!

My prediction for tomorrow's DX headline -

Is Maddie In France?
by Martin (Pal of Clarence) Evans in Praia da Luz

...only 6 days behind everybody else, which must be some sort of record, even for the DX....

southerncross said...

docmac,skies yes dagbreek, nie die "breuk" wat ek verkeerdelik gespel het nie!Ai waars die dae.i did my "time"(academic that is) at Weskoppies, 1Mil and the smaller internship places(being a Tukkie),whereas hubby went through the usal dental Tygerberg et al and ended up eons later in Noord Transvaal(Limpopo)

Anonymous said...

Yes Lizzy

Boring, same old tired theories over and over again. The best part is all news articles were unreliable lies until recently. Now they clutch at any straw, even quoting 'facts' from blogs. Oh my, what a change of heart and tactics. Well, the current press silence is giving me a good feeling. I can't wait for those PJs to get to England. The pros can't either, but their desperation reminds me of Gerry's arrogant boast, find the body and prove that we "done it".


PS again, Hi Plainwaters! Elephants! You'll know what I mean.

Anonymous said...


Professor Nico Louw (prosthodontics). Ask your hubby!


southerncross said...

Dankie docmac,seker hy sal hom ken.Lekker slaap

ratonthebeam said...

Right folks, it is bedtime for me as I have an early start in the morning. Boa noite, Goeienag, Goodnight all!

southerncross said...

Goeienag rat

Anonymous said...

Good night to all the sleepyheads. I need to watch that eclipse in a few hours, so I'm off too.


josiepublic said...

Being an abandoned child:

Its dark and I’m alone, I’m too small to unlock the door and all I can do is cry for ...as I try to I become more frightened... who will save me from the cupboard monster? “Daddy. Daddy, Daddy!” But you don’t come- you never come and when you do you are often angry. I cant do it Daddy I cant stay in the dark alone; pleased don’t make me. I would if I could but I ...even your anger is better than the fear... please come home. I don’t want a gold star the gold picks off ;anyway and the twins say that I will never catch up. Please come home Daddy... Mummy is cross again and I cant find my way its so dark.

lizzy said...

The McCanns: Guilty as Hell!
7 November, 2007 by steph

Somethings beggar belief: like the claim that Maddie McCann was kidnapped on the 3 May 2007 in Praia da Luz, Portugal - she wasn’t! - there isn’t one iota of evidence that supports that theory.

But there is plenty of forensic and circumstantial evidence to support the police theory that Maddie was killed in the McCanns apartment, and that her little body was hidden, then later moved in the Renault Scenic that Gerry McCann hired 25 days after her death. Whether or not that forensic evidence is conclusive, the circumstantial evidence alone would be enough to secure a conviction in most countries. The McCann version of events just isn’t credible - it is downright irrational to believe Maddie was kidnapped when there is no evidence to support that story.

The McCanns claim that they went on holiday to Portugal, left their three little children unattended in an unlocked apartment to go to the pub with friends and when they came back their daughter was missing. That would be believable if she wondered off and was found dead nearby. But the McCann never entertained the idea that she wondered off, they always said she was kidnapped.

Even though they have no evidence - and none has turned up since - they maintain that some phantom crept into their apartment, took their daughter without being seen or heard, and then left without leaving a single trace of evidence.

Yes officer, she was there in her bed when we went out but when we came back out of our skulls, she was gone. She must have been kidnapped by Moroccan paedophiles.

How long do you think before they would have been arrested in the UK on suspicion of murder?

The only person who claims to have seen anything remotely suspicious is Jane Tanner, one of the Tapas nine, who says she saw a man (who she can’t identify) carrying a girl in pyjamas on the path away from the apartment - the police can prove that she didn’t. They have two witness statements one from Jeremy Wilkins, who it was talking to Gerry McCann, and another from an unnamed Irish teenage girl; both say that neither Tanner or the phantom were on the path when she claims. That would be enough to charge Tanner with peverting the course of justice in the UK.

In normal circumstances, the McCanns would have been charged with their daughter’s killing and remanded in custody awaiting trial, but this hasn’t been a normal case - the McCanns were allowed to flee (and yes they did flee) Portugal to avoid charge. The Portuguese prosecutor has admitted that his decision to let them leave the country was taken to avoid a diplomatic incident with the British government. The British Foreign Secretary David Miliband, visited Portugal the day before. The Portuguese police were understandable furious since this was clearly a political decision and they intended to charge Kate McCann.

Since the Foreign Office managed to Shanghai the McCanns from Portugal, the Portuguese police have been impotent. They have no automatic powers to re-interview the McCanns or their friends, Dr Russel O’Brien, Jane Tanner, Matthew Oldfield and Dr David Payne (who are expected to be named as arguidos), and so far the British police (who do have the power) have refused to do so. The Portuguese police have been forced to wait on further forensic results from the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham, those results have been inexplicably delayed.

The British Government intervention is extraordinary, not only did the current Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary put pressure on the Portuguese government, the Foreign Office also lent the McCanns the despicable Clarence Mitchell, a top government spin doctor, and the McCanns have been able to hire the Government’s favoured mercenaries, ICG. Not something they would do for every Labour Party activist, but then Gerry McCann isn’t every Labour Party activist, he is a very well connected and eminent cardiologist, who happens to sit on the medical ethics panel of COMARE.

If the McCanns never face trial in Portugal, it won’t be because they’re innocent, because on the evidence in the public domain, they’re as guilty as hell! That’s why they fled Portugal.

http://stephiblog.wordpress.com/2007/11 ... y-as-hell/

post by Drachen Sachen 3 arguidos
it is written by lawyer called Steph.

LIZZY 12.10

josiepublic said...

Have you seen this criminal?

Internet conman profile:

lives in a large house that could only afford one mortgage payment on without family’s help - if ever

has stacks of pornographic magazines in his bedroom area


has lost members of his family through his habits

has poor social etiquette

hasn't changed the sheets on his bed for months, which are now best described as crusty

has a diary the contents of which doesn’t bear thinking about

lives on tapas and beer/coke, the remnants of which litter his apartment/car

may have an expensive hobby such as golf

is either significantly ugly or aggressive or both

has large amounts of chest hair.
Hi anon- if the cap fits.

2345 said...


Nice to see you here and I'm sorry to read you're one of the latest DE victims. We call it The Badge of Honour - silenced because of your intelligence.

This is a great Forum with top people; the unwelcome intruders are few and far between. Most reputable commentators have left DE and post here and/or on the3arguidos.net/ site - highly recommended for well resourced information.

DE are losing so many patrons which is their loss and our gain.
9.45 p.m.

2345 said...


The problem for the McCanns is that people's thinking is too intelligent for their liking. Treating PJ, Leicester Police, cadavers, forensic scientists and the public with equal contempt is borne of fear and arrogance.

The facts in this case speak for themselves and are very straightforward. The following FSS information released on 7 September confirmed Madeleine died on or around 3 May whilst in the care of one or both parents. The overwhelmingly sad fact is Madeleine would not have survived the profoundly traumatic injuries indicated :

" a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull".

It seems ST is as unable to accept facts and reality as the McCanns.
The Police and the public do accept facts and think on the facts, no more no less. We live in a democracy and have the right to do so. Herr Clarence take note. 9.55 a.m.

ratonthebeam said...

Hey, I was close!


by Martin Evans in PDL

Good morning Anonymous Performing Seal, who believes that you can "prove" where people are with a feedjit map, and does not know that almost the entire population of South Africa can understand at least some Afrikaans.

rat 10:20 GMT

Anonymous said...

Having re-read the troll's posts, I am sure it likes to drink lots of sassp-erilla. Lizzy/Hope being banned is a positive, the DE has become really boring full of the blatant propagandist McC team claptrap. I will still read alsabella, claudia79, yourselves and others that I respect (although there are very few left) I can see the pro's trying to make sure it is an anti free site and the DE just rolling over and allowing it to happen. They do not have a clue regarding invesigative journalism. I had two posts as Zodiac removed one for asking Reina (I think that was her name the fruit and nut case) if she was stupid, the other anwering another poster about K and I was banned. Zephyr as far as I know had no posts removed and neither did little Mopolita, that user was only created as joke to correspond with hope4you and GinaM. I phoned and asked why I was banned and I was told they could not go into it! Thank goodness for this site, alsabella's, the 3 Arguidos and the McCann files, the truth can never be stifled, even though G,K and CM think it can.
Zepholita (thanks gina I like that combo). 21/02/08 10.21am

Anonymous said...


They probably got confused with the feedjit map thinking it was an eedjit map.

Zepholita 21/02/08 10.30am

Anonymous said...


I will wear The Badge of Honour with pride. What sad little people they are having to use dirty tactcis to avoid the truth.

Zepholita 21/02/08 10.42am

dolores said...

Good morning to everyone,
zephyr / zodiac, nice to see you have joined the 'creme de la creme' :)
Looks like the press are 2 days behind with the news,and a strange silence from clan mc'cann.
Why I wonder did the little girl who is missing in Yorkshire not received front page coverage like Madeleine,
is she any less important,our press are abissmal.
X D 10.57

2345 said...


Yes, it simply reinforces their guilt and their fear. 11.30 p.m.

2345 said...


The truth with DE Forum is that those who support law, order, the Police and forensic science are banned. The irony and hypocrisy is breathtaking; throughout my 60 years of life DE has used the Red Crusader logo as it's advertisement for representing everyones' rights. 1.10 p.m.

ratonthebeam said...

How does this sit with people?

I have been reading the earlier comments here re. Gerry's big project, and how if it had come off, it would have set him up for life. Only it didn't; not only was this a big blow to his ego, but also his bank balance. Maybe he had also personally invested in this, who knows?

Anyway, the Mcs had only very recently moved into their new house in Rothley. Their combined salaries would not have been enough, even at 4X joint, to get a 100% mortgage; we know that Kate HAD to work for them to make ends meet, because Philomena told us so. Also that they famously used the Fund to pay 2 months mortgage payments; generally speaking, Banks and BSocs do not repossess homes after 2 months arrears, it is a process that takes many months and is only used as a last resort (regardless of what is often printed in the press). So I think they were maybe in financial trouble even before they had to raid the Fund, if they had bought a big fancy house on the strength of the Building Contract That Never Was.

Following this through to the logical conclusion - Gerry
a) stages a fake kidnapping to make money
b) deliberately kills to make money
c) stages a fake kidnapping (which goes tragically wrong) to make money

Either way, it all comes back to the MONEY! This also squares with their chomping at the bit to have their arguido status removed, not so that they can continue their "search for Maddy" (the arguido status isn't stopping them doing that NOW!) but so they can line up their movie and book deals. Set for life, but by another route....

I would like to think that the scenario was Option a) and that Madeleine will eventually be produced singing and dancing in a restaurant in the South of France, but sadly, I don't think so....

...and was there any sort of Insurance policy on her poor wee life? It wouldn't surprise me one little bit.

rat 13:30 GMT

felicity said...

Hiya everyone - interesting read as ever!

I am not surprised there are yet more expulsions from the DE - they do not want to risk having people on board who can give an informed view on the case now it is reaching such a crucial stage. They will be left in la la land.

I was asked to give a view on a post from 3 As here it is (not good I am afraid) Now the views of Steph above posted by Lizzie now that is more like it!

The Plan.

Madeleine was suffocated to death in the apartment and placed in her bed in the 'recovery position' which Gerry so neatly supposedly observed on his 9:00pm check,and later reported to The Times. The time of death would have been just after the twins were put down, Madeleine was held back they went to sleep and at about 7:30pm and then at some time after 7:40 and before8:00pm Madeleine breathed her last. She was then put to bed as described.

They put a corpse to bed.

The cadaver dogs detected the prior presence of a corpse in Madeleines bed.

The original plan (all the particpents only known to Gerry) was to stage a straightforward abduction with Tanner,O’Brien,and Geraghty later that evening and that hopefully would solve the problem of the body,but there was to be a change of plan and that was brought about by Jeremy Wilkins. Immediately after 'Madeleine' was put to bed Gerry phoned Geraghty and told him the game was on as arranged.
They then carried out their usual routine and went out to dine.


Absurd and quite sensationalist - the forensic evidence does not indicate suffocation. It is indicates a violent assault which entirely fits with Gerry's personality style and quite possibly Kate's mental illness too. Kate was loud and out of control - a typical report from a neighbour overhearing domestic violence. Kate had the bruises/split over her eye to prove it. Kate presents as one dominated and fearful - battered wife syndrome. Plus Gerry/Kate are aware this would have deposited forensic evidence of death to the bed, which would have obviously been checked given their abduction scenario.

I have not read any report of a corpse being in the bed - behind the sofa - which is a logical place for the body to be immediately place and IMO is in the area where Madeleine was violently assaulted - the blood under the parquet tile, up the walls, on the curtain of the window that is right next to that sofa. Large yank of hair suggests Maddie may have been violently grabbed by the hair - injury of smashing a child's head up the wall is common with violent parents losing control. Maddie run away previously at bedtime.

I don’t know who Geraghty is. Agree Wilkins foiled Gerry's attempt to stage and abduction - there is talk of Wilkins actually catching Gerry messing with the shutters.

I am afraid I really cannot be bothered with the rest of it - it is the work of an overactive imagination IMO. Jane Tanner would have been far to squeamish and upset to be directly involved with the body and its removal. Her partner OB did this and he was co-ordinating it with 14 txts with Gerry. Jane's orginal description of bundleman was a description of Gerry McCann including his beige trousers and dark jacket, smart black shoes which we have seen him wearing. IMO they realised someone might have seen Gerry and hence jane gave the ridiculous description of an abductor who did not place her straight into a car - which would obviously happen with a real abductor - he carried a lifeless body away. I think Jane is deeply traumatised by what happened and really wants to be more honest but is very afraid. I believe it is possible it was him who carried Madeleine off to the beach for burial - the most obvious place to promptly bury a corpse. OB prepared the hole and had to change his trousers. He was the only person who left the table. Gerry did not leave the table because at 9.05 when he was supposedly checking the children I do not believe he had even gone to the TAPAS. Other friends place the McCanns arrival just before 9.

Having temporarily buried the body in that way, but realising the police may somehow dig it up - I think the priority was to move it. I have always entertained the possibility that this is where Murat came in and would have been promised huge financial reward from the fund to be set up. I bear in mind that Murat was most insistent to hire a car - when he already had two! I also think that when the police earlier said that an abduction scenario is possible they mean implicating all three arguidos! However, as they say, the evidence of Maddie's death, rather than abduction is overwhelming. What the police have always stressed if you read carefully is that they know, somehow Kate and Gerry were involved.

I agree that it is entirely likely it was the mens' job to do the checks (infrequent as they obviously were - Maddie cried for nearly two hours previous night - no checks!) - no other women did so until Kate - and I am afraid that is fundamental to their guilt! Gerry forced Kate to sit there and go through their normal routine to avoid raising suspicion as murderers know they surely must and then sent her to make the grim discovery. The pent up angst and the removal of her little girl was just too much for kate to handle. Gerry overplays his staging hand. Kate yelled out they have taken her probably just as he ordered her to do but it was a real red flag to the police!

In short anyone who comes up with such a precisely detailed exposition without acknowledging they just do not have access to the evidence to be able to work out such minutiae is asking for a bit of criticism IMO. It becomes a bit more like gory and salacious entertainment than serious comment with certain posters wanted a slap on the back for the best "theory". I think this is an insult really to little Madeleine. We should accept the police do have a case against them and let them get on with it. Opinions that do not go into such finite detail - which has to be guesswork are just far more reasonable and credible.

Viv x

Zepholita said...


I know that a lot of your posts showed the respect you had for the DE. I could not believe it, when I read a post of yours on 3 A's saying you had been banned. You were one of the most mannered decent posters it had. As far as team McC are concerned it seems that they are the only ones who are entitled to freedom of speech. Having read some of the posts on this site from the Pro's it just shows how ignorant they are. No interest in M, only interested in defending two child neglectors at whatever cost. As ROTB has said in her post it is all about money. They have lost a child because of their behaviour, yet it is always about them, how they feel the concern for the Fund running dry.

Anonymous said...

Well said viv,
I fail to understand why people are so enamoured with that particular poster on 3a.

IMO many of his'her posts are off the wall.

Such as Gerry bringing M. body back to UK in a bag on a commercial flight.


felicity said...


Welcome to the Forum and what a sensible post. Typically, serious criminals will always wish to portray themselves as the victim and are seriously into blaming - the police being high on the list. I think Kate McCann's reported comments about Madeleine actually go so far as to do some victim blaming. Hence the police have such interest in her diary.


thanks - I am afraid I do not have much time for off the wall theories! Perhaps people get caught up in theories and lose sight of what we are all about - Justice for Maddie! Dealing with what they put in the way of achieving justice/ seeking to curtail freedom of speech is much more important IMO. The McCann machine wants to get the public on side and their efforts are insidious - anyone who speaks against them on the DE gets their posts removed or they just get banned without any explanation as I did. This is a fundamental issue that needs to be tackled. The press should not be a tool for manipulative criminals, it should be a tool to honestly inform. The press are more concerned about adversting revenue than doing that! It has therefore come down to sites like this who do not make any money, they just want to get to the truth. There are so many intelligent people contributing here and helping us to find it.

Viv x

Viv x

Anonymous said...

Sighting in France...Clarrie on CNN



dolores said...

Hi Viv,
Here is a little background info on John Geraghty.

THE HIRE car used by Kate and Gerry McCann in Portugal is being kept by a millionaire pal — to safeguard vital DNA clues allegedly found inside it.

Portuguese cops claim evidence central to their theory that Kate may have accidentally killed Madeleine, and later hidden the body with Gerry's help, was discovered in the car.

Yet amazingly the police seem unaware that the car, said to have produced partial matches with up to 15 of Madeleine's 20 genetic markers, has been carefully squirrelled away.

Sources close to the McCanns have dismissed the evidence as "pathetic" and it is claimed lawyers will be able to innocently explain any DNA found.

The contract between the McCanns and hire company Budget expired last Thursday, but it is understood the couple may have had it extended. There have been discussions about the possibility of independent forensic tests being carried out on the car on behalf of the McCanns. This will be considered by their lawyers.

On Saturday night, the car was still in the double garage at Mr Geraghty's villa on an exclusive golf resort just three miles from Praia da Luz.

A source said: "Mr Geraghty is another important strand of the investigation and could provide even more support to Gerry and Kate's case."

On the Sunday two weeks ago when the McCanns left for home, Mr Geraghty was with other friends at Faro airport to see them off. Gerry and Kate asked him if he could store the car.

A source said: "In Britain, if a car was a part of the evidence, it would be taken away, stripped and not be seen until the trial."

The Leicester Pathways was a huge multimillion pound £921 million to be precise building programme that has been dragging on for years and finally has been turned down by the Leicestershire NHS trust.
Naturally Gerrys hospital at Glenfield was on the list for a huge infrastructure investment from Laing O’Rourke and Geraghty was the builders man on the ground there.

xx D 14.44

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