8 Feb 2008


In any news from Portugal as the piece from Correio de manha 8/2/08 below confirms!

UK press make it up as they go along (with just a little help from The Pink Shirted One) - although the DE have removed the article suggesting the McCanns will be cleared (see previous thread with many great comments) The Sun has not!

Viv x

Director PJ: Minister explains statements on 13 Alípio Ribeiro resist in silence the chorus of criticism Rights Reserved Alípio Ribeiro (back), Guilhermino Incarnation, Gonçalo Amaral (esq.) and Paulo Rebelo (to smoke) The Minister of Justice moves to the House next Wednesday, 13, to try to explain to members the meaning of controversial statements by the director of the National Judicial Police (PJ) on the case Maddie. Alberto Costa must not justify the expulsion of Alípio Ribeiro, after his friend of long standing have talked about the investigation, arguing that there was "precipitation" in the form McCann defendants. The hearing of Alberto Costa was urgently required by CDS-PP, deemed to be "inadequate" a reaction to the words of the Minister of Alípio Ribeiro. For Mr Nuno Melo, the two one: "Either the statement of the Director of the PJ is true and that would mean a judicial system out of control, or is false and, if so, Alípio Ribeiro could not get either another day ahead of PJ. " Magistrates and former directors of the Judicial contacted by CM, and politicians from several quarters, agree that Alípio Ribeiro breached the duty of reserve and questioned the credibility of the whole investigation. "The fact that the Director of the PJ continue in office means everything you think about this matter," was limited to say the minister. Yesterday, it was the turn of the President be questioned on this issue, but Cavaco Silva felt "not publicly comment on the statements of Mr Director of the PJ." Moreover, the parliamentary leader of the PSD, Pedro Santana Lopes, said: "I was surprised. Only very strong reasons may explain what has been said. " Otherwise, the words of the responsible maximum of PJ "are incomprehensible." MCCANN CRITICAM ENGLISH SITE Nigel Moore ensures that all money raised is not for you, but certain is that the author of the site www.mccannfiles.com has opened an account for donations for maintenance of what it calls "discover the truth" about the disappearance of Maddie. "We have already spent more than 500 hours at the site to bring order and hope appreciate my effort to raise the issues that other media, inexplicably, not exploit." Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for McCann, warns any support for an unofficial site, recalls that the author "did not request any consent" to the family for its creation and that "people should not disperse the objective of finding Madeleine." Nigel, 48 years, responds: "I do not have wealthy sponsors behind me" for the maintenance of a site where one can read all the past the couple and the history of mystery, hand in hand, since the first day. A CRITICAL ALÍPIO "He killed the investigation of PJ when he said that there was precipitation." Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, political commentator "Provocou irreparable damage to the image of the PJ. Should be dismissed." Pacheco Pereira, political commentator "The leviandade with making these comments warns that can lead a police research." Lobo Xavier, political commentator "These are very unfortunate statements. Someone has to explain this." Jorge Coelho, political commentator "These are serious statements. And there was precipitation, but the Director of the PJ." Fernando Negrão, former director of the PJ "The statements are hasty, serious and escusadas. Denotam a lack of responsibility and offend the credibility of PJ and the MP." Rui Rangel, judge "I had not been so candid. Not make statements about a process that is under investigation and that it has a responsibility, which is a prosecutor." Marques Vidal, former director of the PJ


LIZZY said...

Hi Viv,
I found this post I think is very interesting on 3 arguidos, author is Judith. C.
Post subject: OBFUSCATION, OBFUSCATION, OBFUSCATION..........Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:39 am

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:54 pm
Posts: 57 Warning: This is a totally one-sided and biased view of the McCann saga – just like the newspapers give.

Last May, when I noticed a headline “Toddler snatched in Portugal” (or abducted – I don't remember which) together with a photo of those two now familiar faces – Gerry and Kate McCann, my immediate thought was: 'In Portugal! What's that to do with us here in the UK? are we now going to have to suffer the agonies of parents all over the world whose children go missing?' Nine months down the line I realise that the 'abduction' of Madeleine McCann by a person, or a gang, variously described as 'paedophile', 'creepy man', 'man with no face', 'loner'; 'outsider'; predator; Moroccan gypsies'...and a number of other insulting epithets, has a great deal to do with us as a nation, or, more accurately, a great deal to do with the ways and means by which the population of our once great country is being manipulated and controlled. The ceaseless and hypocritical focusing of attention on children, making them icons and untouchable is a ploy that has been used by the government and media for a long time in order to create division and repression as children have been given power without responsibility and adults responsibility without power. 'Celebrity' and, of course, the old standby, sex are other diversionary tactics.

This unhealthy concentration diverts attention from the things that are happening, or not happening, in the country, and really matter to the majority of us: the fact that our city streets are unsafe, admitted even by our own Home Secretary; the fact that Northern Rock is being bailed out by the public to the tune of billions of pounds and then handed over to someone filthy rich, like Richard Branson (yes, the same Richard Branson who has committed £100,000 to the McCanns in the event of a trial); the fact that Gordon Brown promised a referendum on the EU ...where is it?; the possibility (far-fetched, but maybe not) that when he went to China recently he gave them a lease on the UK for several trillion Yen – or just enough to last him until the next election in 2010....But, no worries. Just stick a picture of a female, as deshabillé as possible - Posh Spice, pregnant Angelina Jolie, pregnant (or crazy) Britney Spears, drugged and maybe pregnant Amy Winehouse – or the photogenic, and to some - sexy - Kate McCann (and that child she lost...oh, yes, Madeleine)... on the front page of the newspapers, and Brown and his drones can quietly go about their business.

So for months now we've had to read endless, usually dredged up, stories about the McCanns' 'search' for their 'abducted' daughter everywhere (everywhere except where she went missing) and about their “agony”, “heartbreak”, “anguish”, “despair”, “grief”, and their spokesperson Clarence Mitchell's accusations of 'ludicrous smears' and, of course and most importantly, reported “rage” from the McCann camp (when things weren't quite going to plan).

But there is more to this tale. It is a success story, a mystery and a red warning light. The McCann circus got off to a good start. The loss of their little girl either to a paedophile abductor, or because of an accident or murder, or even because she had been hidden, to appear again at the 'right' moment, was turned into a corporate venture in no time: a Fund collecting money from the public, with carefully worded small print allowing the McCanns to use the money for their own purposes (two mortgage repayments so far to our knowledge), the web-site selling tat – T-shirts, wristbands, posters with the copyrighted 'Madeleine' and eye coloboma logos. And this is only the beginning. If the couple's 'arguido/a' status is lifted what glittering prizes are a little way down the line? The USA, Oprah Winfrey, books, tv shows, possibly government funded children's ambassadorial job for Kate, political opportunity in the Labour Party for Gerry...a film, already under discussion - a remake of “Gone with the Wind” would be appropriate with Kate as Scarlett – and Madeleine? Well, she's the one who's gone with the wind – as Kate said on a recent tv programme “Whoosh, clunk, and she was gone!

Now, to the 'mystery' which is this: Why did the British government under Blair send out paid personnel to help Mr and Mrs McCann? One, the couple's spokesperson Clarence Mitchell, former Head of the government's Media Monitoring Unit, is still helping to obstruct the course of justice by spin and obfuscation. He is now being paid £70,000 a year for his efforts by double glazing multi-millionaire Brian Kennedy. Why did Gordon Brown, who had ample opportunity to rescind Blair's thoughtfulness towards the McCanns, not do so? On the contrary, he put himself out considerably to help the McCanns with long phone calls, arranging meetings for them with our Home Secretary Jacqui Smith (the one who is scared to go out on the streets at night) and with David Miliband the Foreign Secretary. It was only after the couple were made suspects by the Portuguese police that Mr. Brown drew back a little and refused them the high level meeting they wanted when they fled from Portugal back to the UK in September.

Nonetheless Brown is generally thought to have leaned quite hard on the Portuguese Prime Minister Mr. Socrates at the time of the Lisbon Summit last November – to perhaps go easy on the couple...to obfuscate a little, give the Brits time to...well, time to what? After this visit to Portugal by Mr. Brown in November, the British press were even more vociferous in their support of the pair calling the Portuguese police variously “Keystone cops”, “Blundering”; “Sardine Munchers” and a lot of other choice names. This despite the compelling forensic evidence gathered by the Portuguese and British police and important phone interceptions, which they claimed, on 4th August last year, had given them the evidence that Madeleine was dead.

Why has our government gone out on a limb to help the McCanns? It is unprecedented. Why have UK newspapers not only vociferously supported the McCanns but also viciously attacked the Portuguese police and our oldest ally Portugal itself?

I can only think of one reason for each of these questions. I think the government has a vested interest in helping the McCanns to hide the truth and the newspapers have a vested interest in keeping this story running at whatever cost to the integrity of journalism and to our nation as a whole. To take the newspapers first. They no longer reflect opinion, they lead it. Remember the 'News of the World' in 2000 and its editor Rebekah Wade, when a mob of people in Portsmouth were whipped up, after the child Sarah Payne's murder? Ms.Wade had published photos and names of known sex offenders in the area. As a result two men facing sex offence charges committed suicide and the mob eventually stoned a pediatrician's home, knowing no better. In a country with an increasing number of people who don't or can't think for themselves or evaluate things and situations, it is easy to inflame and indeed, suppress opinion; to create action and more often, inaction. The media is now a weapon, and it is being used to control us. Newspapers are not now there to report news, they are there to make it. And this is the reason why the pro-McCann saga goes on and on. It suits the newspaper editors, it suits the government. And they're in this together.

Now why the government has stuck its neck out for this pair of nonentities is quite hard to determine. Is it perhaps because Gerry McCann is a Scotsman? Scotland has been flavour of the month for years now but more so now that Brown is in charge. Is it because Mr. McCann is on COMARE, an organisation which assesses the links between nuclear power and childhood cancer and Gordon Brown's brother is with EDF, the company charged with progressing the nuclear industry in Britain? Or is it because the couple are perceived to be middle-class? Yet here is the dichotomy: to be 'middle class' in the UK now is like declaring yourself a leper. The middle classes are reviled, denied, abused - leaving the country in droves for more welcoming climes; almost non-existent, so why should being middle-class help their case and bring them such comfort and support from government? After all, we're living in the age of the child, and they harmed a child, while on holiday in Portugal, by leaving her alone with her two siblings every night in a dark miserable apartment, in order that they could drink and dine with their friends. Most people would regard this, at least, as a punishable offence but the McCanns haven't been censured and they haven't been reviled by the media for their gross neglect or had their other two children removed as would surely have happened if they had been a 'normal' working-class couple.

So, assuming they are not being helped and protected because Gerry is Scottish or Kate is from Liverpool (which is well-known for producing very sensitive people), or that they are 'middle class' one wonders what is the reason? Perhaps a clue was given by a relative of the McCanns: “We've pulled in a few favours” he said. What favours, I wonder. And favours given to who by whom? Is the reason the government appears to be so keen to protect the McCanns and stall on the investigation because the McCanns may have some knowledge which might be damaging to someone in the upper echelons of power? We can only speculate what this might be in connection with their missing, presumed dead, little girl.

Isn't it also a little strange that Gerry McCann's first call after the disappearance of the child was not to the police but to his best mate from Glasgow University Alistair Clark (now Professor of Political Science & Research at Queens University, Belfast and Assessor of English Working Government). Mr. McCann's delayed reaction allowed the village of Praia de Luz and their friends to trample all over the apartment thus conveniently destroying the forensic evidence. After receiving McCann's call Clark then phoned the British Ambassador John Buck, and Sky News. Kirsty Wark of the BBC became involved then Jill Renwick (another media type) who knew John Brown (Gordon's brother) and finally the great man himself.

So, to the warning red light I mentioned. I see the McCann case as a catalyst. The British newspapers over the last nine months, especially, of course, the gutter press have sunk lower with their biased and abusive reporting of this saga than one could ever have imagined. Yes, we on the outside have been able to pick up a few bits and pieces of information but, speaking personally, most of what I have gleaned has been from erudite and informed people on this forum, for instance, or from translations from foreign newspapers or from my own gut instinct, observation and reading between the lines. As for the government – they already had a reputation for mendaciousness and cover-up, for statism and control, and for clearly demonstrated utter ineptness. Since Brown's ascendency, in my opinion, things have got worse. So the conclusion one comes to is that we, the public, are regarded as being like the proverbial mushrooms – 'keep them in the dark and feed them xxxx!' In this the government is ably assisted by the media. We must heed the red light, and resist it all


isis said...

morning all. Just when i thought it couldnt get any worse,there goes the mc cann camp on the DE forum mentioning little james bulger in the same sentence as k&g. Truly sickening. The site is unreadable now with the length of the posts. Since SHE has learned to cut and paste.... gods teeth ,this is too much. I believe the letters are on course and that the questioning will centre around time lines and in particular mobile phone records. We had a case here last year where a man was convicted of murdering his wife. Very little if any forensics but the mobile phone records convinced the jury,along with his narcissistic demeanour. Irina will remember it. Im not going to be around for the next few days as im off on retreat so il look in on you all when i come back. God bless.

felicity said...

Hiya Isis

What a great post - could not agree more and expressed the level of my disgust at the pro parent lobby on the DE's latest repulsive antics on last night's thread.

The letters will be here any day and the clear evidence is there to convict them IMO. I am sick to the back teeth of hearing Gordon Brown is going to put a stop to this! Will the poor man ever be able to live down having a few sympathetic calls with the rather pressing Gerry McCann in the early stages. As for ambassadorial help - everyperson in this situation in a foreign country gets this - it is what they are there for! Cut the conspiracy theories and see what is coming folks! Clarence and his spin will not stop that! Narcissistic demeanour helped convict - well yes indeed!

Great to hear from you.

Viv 10.30 x

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
If you don;t like the post by Judith that I posted, feel free to remove it had read through it but posted it re the newspaper bias on closer reading there are some things I don't agree with myself so if you don't want it on your blog I understand, sorry will read more carefully before I post anothers comments next time...Lizzy 10.43am

2345 said...


Thanks for article by Judith C ... brilliant! 2345 (JAB).

eureka said...

Hi all, this is lifted from the 3As, by Coldwater, a highly respected and informative poster.
Apologies to those who've seen it but it damps down the anxieties of those who fear a cover-up.

A little about the Questioning:

""Much of this was posted on the 'whoosh - clicked' Mirror Forum. There are now some additions.

"In December, when the PJ arrived publically in the UK, they had several aims. One of those aims, I am led to believe, was to sort out with the UK police (Leics) some issues arising from the first batch of rejected Rogatory Letters (this means, obviously, that they have been sent back twice). The key to this was the procedural elements in the UK with regard to bringing in those to be questioned and under what conditions such questioning would take place. They thrashed out the details and the exact pattern of events to be included in the letters sent in January. Everything is in place for this now - and was since December.

There were also issues with the FSS to discuss, and I am still told that this particular part of the meet was heated. As a result of this meeting the PJ 'allowed' some more samples to go to the FSS which were due for analysis and conclusion by the mid - end of January. I don't know what these samples are and can only speculate that they may be something to do with the towel or other items found at the barn.

The questioning will encompass more than the Tapas 9. I was told that it would include at least two others. My own speculation was that it might be the nannies - but could include JW and or others in the McCann party post May 3rd.

Questioning will take place at Hamilton station - although Charles Street was discussed as it is located in the centre of Leicester, close to the train station as well as the Leicester Mercury offices. All elements will be questioned on an individual basis - possibly couples at the same time in different interview rooms. The McCanns will be seen last. The questioning is expected to be vigorous and to last no more than two days - unless there is some form of breakthrough.

My source indicates that at least some of the questioning will cover confusion surrounding vehicles and access to these. A small but necessary avenue to examine. The rest is speculative to say the least, but should encompass time lines and previous statements which are now known to be false.

The last thing so mention is that my source again strongly suggests that there will be more Arguido/Arguida's as a result of this process. No word on who, but it might well be more than two!!""

Also, from AspieDistra:
"Rogatory letters pass from one judicial system to another possibly through diplomatic channels. There is no political interference allowed in the process.

It's quite bureaucratic and those wheels grind slowly."

docmac said...

Hi everyone,

I just looked in for a moment to enquire whether the DE have stopped all posts and new articles. There has been no post since 3.02am. Is something happening that I have not heard about as I have not read too much for a few days?

Isis, have a wonderful time.

Lizzy, nothing wrong with that article really. It's very well written. Is it the political stuff you are not in agreement with?

Leigh3, if you look in later I saw that you said your daughter is coming to SA next week. How long is she spending here? Don't tell me she is only going to Johannesburg lol! Is she coming to the Cape or travelling the Garden Route (our Lake District, but with the sea and beaches on the other side of the road)? I hope she has a fantastic and safe trip.

2345, hello. Any news on the forensics?

Viv, like the scarlet pimpernel, I must...lolol! I have left you a message and some photos elsewhere.

docmac said...

OK, before logging off I see there is a new article on the DE. Next time..

lizzy said...

No I disagreed with the comments on Kate being from Liverpool and the implications ths may be why they are receiving help...but the rest I think is okay and is what a lot of people rightly or wrongly feel, I have a close relative high up in Government so know how they do things.How are you anyway? I had sympathy for you on your recent flight as I am so nervous flying, haven't flown for a few years for that very reason. Lizzy 11.30am

ct1538 said...

'Hello, anyone at home?'
'Can I join your forum please?'

Jeeze! where is the door to this place.
Can't find it.

What about these shutters. Perhaps I could jemmy them.
Better not.
'Hello. Help, I'm being pursued by the logic vampires. They're trying to suck the last ounce of logic from my brain, with their constant drip, drip, abduction, abduction, drip, drip, error of judgement, error of judgement and so on.'

'Help, I'm only seeking refuse.'
'What did you say?'
'What do you mean, have I come to empty your bins?'
'Oh, I see sorry I meant refuge.'

Still not in.
Perhaps I could try a little subterfuge.
'Hello in there. My name's Clarence. Do you need any new windows or patio doors? How's your soffits?'

That doesn't seem to have worked.Where's my instruction book.
Here it is. 'Spectrum ZX for Dummies'
Now I'll just try this.

felicity said...

Hi Lizzie

I dont have any objection to the post you put on. I very rarely remove posts and only on the basis they are frivolous and insulting (Muse). I do not agree with the suggestion there is any conspiracy with Gordon Brown on the basis of Gerry's advice on nuclear installations but apart from that it is a well written and well argued piece of work and certainly encourage academic debate! All such contributions are very welcome indeed regardless of whether I agree with them or not. Maybe I was a little terse! but would never wish to stifle academic debate or wish to give the impression that contributors on here have to echo my own views. My views can change as a result of listening to others e.g. I have mellowed on my view that Gerry is definitely responsible having considered Sue B's contributions.

Please feel free to post other good stuff such as this.

Luv Viv x

ct1538 said...

Whoopee!!! I've cracked it.
Hi Viv and others ex DE.
I like it here. A lot more peaceful and in the same colour as my favourite football team. 'Come on you Greens'
I have tried to post twice before. Quite long posts which just disappeared into the ether. Probably being read on Venus I suspect.
Have being reading your site and hope I can make a contribution in the future. Keep up the good work everyone.
Justice for Madeleine, as always should be the focus.

felicity said...

...By the way the pleasantly frivolous is always welcome :-)

How could I, of all people, suggest otherwise!

If I upset you Lizzie, I am sorry.

Luv Viv x

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
No of course you didn't upset me, was a bit worried I had posted something you might not have wanted on your blog, I really put it on as I agreed 100% with the newspaper biased reporting part of it. But I know you are straight enough to tell me what you think Viv, take care Lizzy 12.27pm

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

Well that's sorted then :-)

CT - Great to see you - another great poster ex the DE! Believe it or not I just lost this post twice now so it is shorter. Sometimes I think I hit some key on the left of my keyboard and whoosh very frustrating - other times it seems to be the blogs fault! When I am feeling organised ..which is unusual I type the post on word so I cannot just lose it - for a long one that is definitely a good idea.

Green is normally a relaxing oolour but I stayed up far too late looking at the posts of Rosie (AKA Gerry) and the increasing denial and desperation they portray - on other thread.

Will respond to a few more now!and pray I do not lose this post a third time!

Viv x

2345 said...

Hello Docmac,

I'm glad you're here. I joined 3 A's (as well as this site) on Ironside's suggestion prior to perment DE ban. I've received the following PM (e-mail from 3 A's site) "Good Evening 2345, I remember reading DE Forums and wonder if you know how/if I can get in contact with Docmac? I am also South African as he/she is and would like to discuss this with him/her. I hope you don't mind me asking. Kind regards."

I've not responded for both our sakes; experiences in DE Forum have left me somewhat paranoid!

I've read so much info on this site and 3 A's and cannot recall whether you post on the latter.
Do you want me to ignore the above or refer the person to this site?

No more forensic news apart from 'stand alone' news I read here, I think. I watched Jane Hill on BBC news on 7 September - FSS information released shook me rigid and still sickens me to the core.

I'm signing posts here and 3 A's (JAB) - noticed two others 1234 & 12345 have appeared there!!

2345 said...

Nice to see you ct1538 - welcome to the land of the sane and sensible. It's such a relief and delight to be free of unrelenting psychological abuse in DE Forum.

docmac said...

2345 (JAB),

Unless it's Ironside, I would prefer you to ignore it, thanks.

Lizzy, I flew back home this morning and have no fingers left :-)

CT1538 welcome. I have read plenty of your rational, educated posts on the DE forum. After having read so many fakes such as Duncan and Johncar it was great to have some knowledgable insights presented by your good self. Even Copper Bottom bothered me when he ridiculed the dogs, which was supposedly his speciality. I look forward to your input here.

Right folks, the family has arrived and we're off to see some wildlife, followed by a meal in the bush. It's 38C Viv, so won't see the big cats today (maybe later on the night drive after dinner). We're headed for the waterhole, should be plenty of action there. Hell, I may even be tempted to jump off and have a sip! I will try and pop in tonight.

15.10 CAT

felicity said...

Doc - sorry I missed you on here again but got your private note. Have a great time.


Thanks for that - it was interesting to read. I think there are two who are seriously in the frame and do not need naming but others have also frustrated /obstructed the cause of justice. In UK or Portugal it is a serious criminal offence to seek to cover for an offender and fail to co-operate in a homicide/missing child investigation. MO says he checked the McCann children at 9.30 this would appear to be false. His wife is also one of those insisting she saw Murat. It is significant these four were called back by the PJ in July and I think it is a great system in Portuguese procedure to have the confrontation between accusing witnesses and suspects so this can be recorded and analysed to see where the truth lies. As you say there could be more than two new arguidos! MO in particular would also seem to be in pretty serious trouble. RO can perhaps say she genuinely believed it was Murat? However, we know that Payne is very similar looking to Murat but she obviously cannot say she got mixed up with him! Fiona Payne also falsely (perhaps) ID's Murat. I cannot think how Mr Payne is in trouble at all but maybe I have missed the detail there. It was notable the Paynes seem to be the most caring and responsible of the group. They did have a baby monitor - which is something and they did stay with the McCanns in Portugal for a while - the others, I think, went straight home and it seems to me had good reason to want to do so!

There could be others caught up as well though - what of those involved in providing false information to the press and the fund directors etc - what was their state of knowledge - likely they can deny I suppose.

The other thing though - what of all these fake sightings? These were being investigated by Interpol and those who have joined a conspiracy with Gerry McCann could be in very serious trouble. What of these friends of theirs in Holland they just had to go and visit on their European promotional tour!

Viv x

Viv x

SueB said...


'...Mr Mitchell said the family had "heard nothing officially" that the case was to be shelved.'


A suggestion by a Portuguese police leader that the search for Madeleine McCann was not a top priority has been branded "not helpful" by the McCann family's official spokesman.

Clarence Mitchell told GMTV that finding Madeleine, or finding out what had happened to her, remained the biggest concern of her parents Kate and Gerry.

He was responding to comments by Carlos Anjos, the head of Portugal's police federation, who said: "There are bigger problems in the Policia Judiciaria (CID) than the Maddie case, with all the respect it deserves."

Mr Mitchell said the family had "heard nothing officially" that the case was to be shelved.

He said: "Mr Anjos's comments are not helpful. He is not working on the case and we hope the police are working very hard on the case.

"We have heard nothing officially that the case was to be shelved but we want the police to maintain this case as an active case."

Mr Mitchell said the family welcomed recent comments by Portugal's top policeman Alipio Ribeiro, national director of the Policia Judiciaria, who said detectives were too hasty in making the couple suspects over their daughter's disappearance.

He added: "Comments by the head of the PJ led to speculation the case is to be archived.

"We want Kate and Gerry to be eliminated from the inquiry and want the police to work with our own investigators to find out what happened."

Madeline vanished from the McCanns' holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3 last year, shortly before her fourth birthday.


Hi Viv!



felicity said...

Hiya Sue

Having put all that BLOODY spin in the press the case is to be shelved or better still even the McCanns are to be cleared he now tells us they heard NO SUCH THING in spite of dear Rosie's numerous entreaties this is indeed the case!

His remarks as ever continue to be highly inflammatory. 10 Months on and after a massive, highly complex and expensive investigation he continues to demand they give top priority to searching for Madeleine - a task the PJ no for sure is futile, other than to procure her little body for forensic evidence and then decent burial - an impossible feat as we know from Gerry's own inflammatory and angry remarks about find the body then..

The more he feeds the press and then offers his contradictory and inflammatory statements the less we trust him, although I dont think public mistrust of him and the McCanns really could go much lower!

Yet again, we get the deliberate spin on Mr Ribeiro's words - he did not say the PJ were too hasty in making them arguidos - he merely agreed there had been a certain haste and they continue to ignore his clarification keeping them as witnesses only for a lengthier period may have aided the investigation of them. I am alarmed by the furore even in Portugal against him. He was doing no more than offering a sensible and academic view on the situation as it has developed given the bizarre reaction from the McCann machine and their prompt rush home, rather than staying to assist the investigation. This has undoubtedly made the investigation far more difficult not to mention expensive for the PJ getting them caught up in bureaucratic procedures for "mutual assistance" and with the UK clearly being picky and difficult about the proper involvement of Eurojust - clearly a step meant to aid, not allow hindrance and delay.

What a smarmy little toad he is - comments by Mr Ribeiro led to speculation the case is to be shelved - who was the instigator of all that speculation - we have no doubt. He just seeks to back-pedal now, rather than look the mouthy fool that he is, knowing full well (as the DE confirmed last night by pulling their false "article" claiming the McCanns are to be cleared !!) this case is proceeding and the PJ are on their way.

"WE want the police to work with our investigators" - WHAT THE RETARDOS HOW UTTERLY LUDICROUS!!! I am sure they have serious police work to do and other crime in Portugal that also has to get its fair share of the resources, rather than pander to this sick McCann media machine.

Great to hear from you again, my friend - great article - CHEERS

Viv x

felicity said...

as usual I forget my own little rule - the time is 14.35 :-)

2345 said...

Everyone - a funny little aside ...

I read the following when I first joined DE Forum:

The commentator was emotionally engrossed in Madeleine's disappearance, unlike her husband, a fighter pilot in the war. When asking him "why not", he replied "because he's guilty". She said "what on earth do you mean". His said "I watched them in interview, his hands were protecting his manhood - known fact in the RAF, subconscious action - men always do this when in a dangerous threatening situation".

I found it funny and fascinating when I read it months' ago and hope you enjoy it too.

2345 said...

Clarence's undermining spin, spin spin is, according to Alsabella being monitored by PJ's lawyers which I was delighted to read.

I'd been wondering for ages whether Leicester Police were monitoring PR antics.

SueB said...

British pressures "affected the smooth conduct of the investigation"

David Miliband, the Minister for Foreign Affairs British present in Portugal at the time of interviews with Kate and Gerry McCann, was informed in advance by its Portuguese congener of the Portuguese authorities' intention to set up the couple as arguidos and arrest prominent Kate McCann. "It's the minister who had given instructions to the Consulate of Portimão to negotiate the departure of McCann, ensuring that there would be no preventive prison", accusing one of the diplomats who had treated the case to the time, adding "usually it is not our official role."

"The Portuguese justice is doing his work and British consular services are doing their duty," Miliband told the agency EFE on the sidelines of the meeting of Ministers of Foreign Affairs of the European Union to Portugal.

Although the subject remains sensitive, both in Portugal and the United Kingdom, the diplomat maintaining its assertions: "Labour delegates from the Foreign Office, especially that of Clarence Mitchell, has affected the smooth conduct of the investigation".

It was the Prime Minister Gordon Brown himself who recommended that David Miliband send Clarence Mitchell Portugal as a delegate at the Foreign Office with the specific instruction to accompany the couple McCann and increase the pressure on authorities Portuguese.

"He had greater authority than the consul or ambassador… and he has not asked to use it," said the same diplomat - who is no longer employed at Portugal today.

After a meeting between McCann and the Judicial Police, Clarence Mitchell had stressed - said the diplomat - "the inspector Gonçalo Amaral was an obstacle but that the press went to take care of him and eventually be rejected of the investigation. "

Despite an aggressive campaign in the British press against Inspector Gonçalo Amaral, coordinator of the Department of Criminal Investigation (DIC) Portimão, the head of the investigation of the disappearance Madeleine McCann has stood up to the month October. The publication by the Diário de Noticias of an article or Gonçalo Amaral reportedly accused the British police to work solely "on what the couple McCann and he claims it suits him," led the National Director of the Judicial Police, Alipio Ribeiro, to discard him of his duties: "That's exactly what Clarence Mitchell had advocated," says our source.

Gonçalo Amaral was contacted by the journalist about an anonymous e-mail accusing a former employee of the Ocean Club. "The journalist or the inspector himself may have been manipulated," our source confirmed that the police did its job, "both in Portugal than in the United Kingdom", but the case "has become a political and diplomatic issue 'or nobody want to lose face.

Manipulation or not, the journalist admits today its aversion to the case Madeleine: "I do not want to hear about more of this story."

"Public Relations of McCann continues its hunt on the Internet"

Clarence Mitchell, a former director of the Unit for Media Monitoring of the British government - and never replaced - continues its hunt of websites which are beyond the control of McCann. Today the head of public relations couple has grappled with the site "McCannfiles" created by Nigel Moore, known to be a real database on line events related to the disappearance of Maddie.

Clarence Mitchell accuses the websites that are not related to the couple, as is the case with "mccannfiles" distract public attention from search Madeleine, adding he "preferred that the effort and money people go to Find Madeleine. "

The author of the site, Nigel Moore, has spent more than 500 hours of work to gather all available information about the cases of missing Madeleine, stressing that there are still "questions to which McCann must meet."

The objective of the site is not to create profits, but its creator has made available to Internet users the opportunity to contribute to the costs of handling the site through donations.

This is not the first time that Clarence Mitchell is a threat to the existing sites and forums on the Internet with a vision of the case Madeleine different from that disclosed by the official website of McCann.

Clarence Mitchell allegedly used several times contacts and the services of the British government to monitor several journalists, but also the behavior on a list of forums and blogs regarded as "highly dangerous" for the image of McCann and the British government.

"Minister of Justice will be explained to Parliament"

The CDS / PP, opposition party, called the hearing of the Minister of Justice in Parliament. The party of the right centrist wants to know the reasons why the Minister Alberto Costa has maintained its confidence in the national director of the Judicial Police after his controversial statements. Several parliamentarians, both from the government and the opposition, have expressed their surprise and displeasure about their declarations of Alipio Ribeiro.

Source: SOSMaddie


2345 said...

Daily Star Article - Clarence:

"We want K & G eliminated from the enquiry and want the Police to work with our own investigators to find out what happened".

Clarence, you should urge K & G to contact PJ without further delay and give them all the "innocent explanations" Gerry says he has to clear their names. Have you asked K & G why they didn't furnish PJ with their 'innocent explanations' when named 'arguidos' ?

Your 'investigators' speciality is fraud, arrested in the past for illegal phone tapping. Those equipped to find the answeres to Madeleine's disappearance continue sterling work, PJ, Leicester Police/cadavers, FSS. These professionals have the full support and gratitude of the public, globally; all those who uphold law, order and free speech in democracy.

In the words of Benjamin Franklin -
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freedom of speech."

You have left the public no option but resolutely stand against your abhorrent behaviour in this case -for the rights of democracy on healf of Madeleine's humane and legal rights. You shame the British and democracy, home and abroad. 2345 (JAB) 3.25 p.m.

Ironside said...

Hi Viv,Hope all is well with your son....Here is something to make you think....I have taken it from "Le Critique".....The last line is very interesting "The shrine is in Portugal...."

Universal McCann

Universal McCann is the worlds largest advertising agency. They provide for Coca Cola, Exxon Mobil, Intel, Johnson & Johnson, L'Oreal, Mastercard, Microsoft, SC Johnson and Sony. Their sister company is McCann Erikson. It is the sister company who are advertising the Madeleine McCann image alongside the CEOP. It informs, almost instructs in fact, to "Help find Madeleine McCann". When you click on it, this takes you to the Child Exploitation and Online Protection. When you reach CEOP, you'd be hard pushed to believe the amount of coverage one little girl has... if you ask me the amount the tyke's picture has been used and abused by multinational companies is tantamount to child abuse.

Brian Child was the CEO at McCann Erikson and is now one of the team at River Media. The same River Media that created the Madeleine appeal video. Where is all this going I hear you ask... well read on.

Who would want to impress McCann Erikson/Universal McCann? Why would so many people seemingly uninvolved suddenly want to become involved? It is unprecedented... unless their is an ulterior motive... an agenda.

Rupert Murdoch

Most of us will know how powerful Rupert Murdoch is, whether we want to admit it or not. We will ask ourselves one question for now, before coming back to RM in later posts... who would he be seeking approval from and why.

I have set the scene, for now... it's a lot to take in. Next post tomorrow.....

********Part 2 - Sorry I didn't get back to this until now, I have been busy at home.

Back to Rupert Murdoch….

As I have already said many, if not most, people will be aware of the power that RM can exert. It is far reaching and not much else can outweigh it. Certain forces, such as Universal McCann, can sway his aims but rarely can they be changed or stopped. If RM wants something he will get it.

So why would he get involved with Gerry and Kate McCann, a couple of doctors from the UK?

What benefits can he receive from little Madeleine McCann going missing? Who would want to impress RM? Was it convenient that a scapegoat for Madeleine McCanns disappearance was found less than 50 yards away from where the disappearance took place. Is Robert Murat involved in the church in some way?

Answers, answers…. They take time to worl out because of the sheer scale of this operation…. This is not a normal family pulling together… this is a major media operation in action. I say media because that, I feel is the impetus for this… it may be the reason but it’s without a doubt the impetus. Who knows how to work the media? Who was offering to clear Robert Murat’s name as soon as he was cleared…. Max Clifford. Why would an important player in the UK media offer his services to Robert Murat… maybe
Clifford is aware of what Murat is up against?

Rupert Murdoch has quite an array of media outlets under his control and it’s well known how much of a ‘hands-on’ role he has, especially in Sky News.

The main basis of the McCann campaign is the media… it plays a crucial role and to quote Paul Tuohy Chief Executive of Missing Persons helpline “THe strategy of the family has been a huge success”. Also stated by David Hodson, a prolific International Lawyer, specialising in Family Law but having experience in other areas of European and International law (quite a man to have on side!) "The family have been very aware of the importance of the media being used as a means to find their daughter.
"They have not been giving individual interviews. They have taken a view they want to reach the maximum number of people."

So they have been issuing press releases and doing conferences with the aid of a government provided spokesperson. In a video, you can clearly see Mr McCann conversing with Clarence Mitchell on exactly what it is he is supposed to say and do. This is very clearly, in my eyes anyway, scripted and carried out with a fine precision. If you look at the BBC cuttings I have provided today you will see that the issue of press releases/conferences are mainly the same mantra over and over again… why? They all have to stick to the script.

Clarence Mitchell has since released the governments plans to monitors blogs and forums as part of the press review/consultation the government has to plan strategies. Where did Clarence find out about the importance of blogs. Well there is Gerry’s blog… is that effective? Well if it’s to make inflammatory remarks and stir emotions then yes it is… very effective. Mike Hitchens? The flip side of the orchestrated McCann media machine… if it is designed to cause a bigger divide between the polarised views… then yes, I would say Mikes has been effective too. Remember where both Rupert and Mike are nationals… was it planned… to silence criticism and then leave it confined to two places… the Mirror and Mike Hitchens blog… they can both be ridiculed for the red herrings that people have been planting in different guises. This I feel was the plan but most forums were unable to contain the mounting whispers.

Who was the government and Rupert Murdoch trying to prove the effectiveness of blogs to… You guessed it Universal McCann, and how apt that their main role player is none other than Madeleine McCann, promoted to another ‘degree’ by Mr and Mrs McCann.

In 1998, Rupert Murdoch became a member of the Pontifical Order of St Gregory the Great…. This, for those that don’t know, means that Rupert Murdoch is a papal Knight Commander of St Gregory.
Mr and Mrs McCann also got married in 1998, probably just coincidence, like so many other things in this mystifying saga.

Rupert Murdoch is a known freemason, as proven by his papal Knighthood to the Pontifical Order. These memberships are given to those with exceptional morals persons of “unblemished character” who have promoted the interests of society,, the [catholic] church and the Holy See [Vatican].

Doesn’t sound like Murdoch could have qualified surely, well I’ll tell you something that means the Church can turn a blind eye to Murdochs misgivings. His relentless aim to shock and amaze with lurid tales of filth scandal via The Sun. The tabloid that we have all come to know in the UK as being nothing better than toilet paper. It’s the tiny detail, the donation $10 million to the LA cathederal.

So the church and Murdoch have a cosy little relationship.Murdoch spouts nonsense via his tabloid vehicles in the UK better known as Then Sun and Sky News. I am aware he has his finger in many more pies, but I care not about Murdoch, only his role in the McCann fiasco. Who is left out of the loop? Who doesMurdoch want in the loop?

The UK government was left on it’s own, being abused by the very Mr Rupert Murdoch through the tabloids he owns when he doesn’t get his own way. Who did Murdoch want in the loop… Universal McCann. Please don’t forget that name… it’s a key player, most likely unwittingly… it’s their winning combination of successful advertising that Murdoch wants a slice of. His attempts at winning the public round may have worked at one time but I think he is too old and the worm known as the public, no longer wants to swallow the BS. So it’s charm offensive for nigh on 4 months.

There are so many people to benefit from this abduction that I feel the only way this could have been carried off the way it has is a collaboration between Masons, church and the media monster Murdoch. Are they all aiming to please Universal McCann? Possibly not because they stand to gain so much from this individually.

It’s all been mutual promotion of football clubs, the government, police forces, media, public and massive praise for the church. Many of the BBC reports have a heavily religious slant. The vigils in Portugal, Northern Ireland and the UK. The visit to the Shrine of Fatima. The daily church visits. The visit to the Pope.

The church as it happens, has been on a recruitment drive for priests and participants… it has been failing for some time and in need of a boost. People need to believe… to have a faith in the eyes of the church (as a collective).

What a better opportunity than a miracle.

Say something bad happened and so much time goes by that many people begin to believe that the only way it can be made better is a miracle.

An apparition is a vision… the shrine of Fatima is a symbol of these apparitions and a prophecy that was to come true.

Fatima - http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr49/cr49ap2.asp

Quote: As a great sign of this whole message truly coming from God, a marvelous miracle was worked in the sky above Fatima before 70,000 witnesses on October 13, 1917, at the time, date and place that Lucy and the other two children had prophesied in the name of Our Lady of Fatima.

Where is this shrine… yes, you guessed it… Portugal. Where little Madeleine went missing.

Irina said...

Hello Lizzy,
Re: post by Judith. C.

Part 1 conspiracy.

I think there is a truth in both media manipulation and "conspiracy".
But I think it is not the straight forward conspiracy, as a purposeful decision of the group of people.
I think that the quote “We've pulled in a few favours” exactly describe mechanism that is adopted in current government and that was used in McCann case. One done favour for another, that one also done favour and like snow ball it grow and even PM was soaked in.

The favourism is a principle of new labour (cash for honour sort of thing).
If one knows people up there one guaranteed a favourable treatment.

Even that it is not strictly speaking conspiracy it is not less dangerous, as favourism undermines justice, openness and common sense.

Irina said...

Re: post by Judith. C.

Part 2 media.

The situation in which we find the media in UK now was determined by the policy of Tony Blaire’s government over the years. He with the help of several consecutive spin doctors understood that for him to do whatever he wants without public objection or knowledge, he needs:
1. Good spin (including lie)
2. Obedient media.
3. Backstage lobbing.
4. All this supported by favourism, as the foundation.

No.3. the obedient media was achieved by straight forward bulling (Dr. Kelly case) and by putting his people into right positions (change in BBC and Mirror).

When Brown inherited this machine it was so good that it was able to work without master.
So for Brown there were 2 paths:
-fight the machine and fight favourism;
-or close eyes on it.

Brown chose the second because he came to power on the back of this machine and with conservatives gaining strength he needed it to sty at the power.
Brown does not use the spin himself and probably does not use the lobby, but he is not destroying them either. Remember outburst of one favourite, when Brown refused to give an audience to McCanns. That outburst was not because McCanns cause, but because Brown dared to refuse a favour to a guy.
That machine (apparatus) is still acting, as we so in McCanns case, including the media.

If I would not be afraid to bore you to death I would deliberate in part 3 about the ease of manipulation of public, that is ignorant and enforcement of the ignorance as state policy. But it is too depressing as well.

In conclusion I want to say that I agree with Viv that the process of justice is still alive and getting stronger, despite efforts of some who overestimate theirs abilities.

Dylan said...

Hello all, Zdravstvui Irina,

Ironside - a very intrigueing post. It takes the six degrees of separation to higher levels doesn't it?

Lizzy, that was a very good post you sent this way. I'm a bit crap at writing essays but this lady has summed up the essence of what's going on very succinctly. Re the nuclear issue and childhood cancer, i don't think that there's a lot to defend there. Our university has done some very good research into this very subject and our environmental epidemiologists have worked extensively with the health service. They discovered some years ago that the underlying cause is the propagation of viral diseases through the coming together of children from diverse locations. Because there is such a mix of workers' children, their immune system is undermined by exposure to new viruses. This is how i understand it anyway, docmac may say i'm way off(please feel free to correct me ,doc) but statistics have shown that it's not to do with radiation and so there's not much of an issue now. There would be if there was a melt-down though and there is a greater issue of what to do with the used rods etc.

It is interesting what she said about class. I read recently too that it is extremely "uncool" to be middle class. Not that i'd ever aspire to that anyway in a two-up, two-down and more than 2.1 children!!))

Another classic from the mistress of geographic clangers, HM rosipops:
Not too mention the very real fact that the body would somehow break fee and come to the surface and be washed up on the beach or the banks of the river?

Rosipops on the washing up of a body.
I haven't stopped laughing yet!! How much tidal influence does she expect a textbook riverbank to have??? Looooool!!! ;)

I have a blissful 2 hours before step children descend so i'll pop back between cleaning!

Love 2 all dyl x

Dylan said...


Don't be afraid to say more. You won't bore us at all. Politics is not my strong point and i'm interested in what you have to say.

Dyl x 18.00hrs

Anonymous said...

I still think the butler did it using the candlestick.

dolores said...

Hello to all,
This is off topic,I know but very important,

Emails with Osama Bin-Laden hanged or captured, are being sent and the moment you open these emails,your computer will crash and you will not be able to fix it!

This email is being distributed through countries round the globe..
Be considerate and send this warning to whomever you know.

You should be alert during the next few days:do not open any message with an attached file called 'Invitation' regardless of who sent it.

It is a virus that opens an Olympic
Torch which 'burns'the whole hard disc of your computer.

This is the worst virus announced by CNN, it has been classified by Microsoft as the most destructive virus ever.
This virus was discovered by McAfee yesterday, and there is no repair yet for this kind of virus.
This virus simply destroys the Zero Sector of the Hard Disc,where the vital information is kept.

Dylan said...

Cheers for the warning Dolores.

We saved up hard for our computer and i'd cry if it broke!

Dyl x

dolores said...

Hi Dyl
I would cry also,I have sent emails out to every single person I know. What a nightmare if we lost everything

Atardi said...

Dolores, goedenavond and Buenas Noches all.

Thank you for the virus warning.

What a hectic week. "The Mc Canns to be cleared" and Clarence saying:

"We want Kate and Gerry to be eliminated from the inquiry and want the police to work with our own investigators to find out what happened."

Why their own investigators? Is it because Metodo 3 has to make a world tour?

When can we expect a sight in Holland or England?


What a great article from Judith C!


Welkom thuis!


I'm glad you're still posting.
Y muchas buenas noches a usted.
Que lástima este caso!


You couldn't do better with your own blog.


dolores said...

You are welcome:)
I have been thinking about Metodo 3
and this warning,I think they should be sent to look for Bin Liner....whoops Ladin After all he has the likeness to the last photofit.Why have they not gone to the Middle East.....

Dylan said...

Delores, I don't blame you. Thanks again. What kicks do these nasty virus people get? Shame on them.

On a slightly different tack, but related - bear with me on this one! -

I have just been reading some of the comments on HYS on the Archbishop and the "fact" that he has said sharia law is inevitable in this country, eventually.
There is absolute outrage on the forum with many posts pulled.

This has a bearing on what Lizzy copied over to here earlier about the media and the subconscious impact it has on us, the people.

I read the article this morning and it really scared me. But, after a coffee and some musing on the subject i calmed down a little....

If you read the article very carefully and pick out the bits your brain usually skips, what it actually said was that sharia law would be imminent in the predominantly muslim areas of Britain. NOT that the archbishop was in favour of introducing it and NOT that he in any way,condoned what would be barbaric to us, such as stoning and beheading, but, simply, that in certain circumstances, it might help with divorce proceedings etc and would actually safeguard against violent retribution.

The independent, which i consider to be a very good, objective paper, printed a picture of a man on his knees in a white gown, head down, just about to be beheaded. The executioner, you could see, was already in full swing with his sword.

With immotive images such as these, careful editing with narrative, one can see that it is very easy for the press to stir up hatred and fear over what is basically, white-lie propaganda. It's not what they say but what they don't say. Our human minds just fill in the gaps and, bingo! we are all outraged! The muslims must leave our country now before we are beseiged! Is it any wonder that Hitler managed to conjour such affiliation to evil by the wooeing of the masses?

Luckily, i think that most of us here, at least, are aware of the spin, tactics and lies and can see what the headlines really mean. It's nice to have a choice of whether we believe it or question it. and great that we have forums such as this, that we can look at the evidence and enjoy a free discussion on what we think.

Dyl x

dolores said...

Hi Dyl,
Did you ever see the movie 'Wag The Dog' with Robert de Nero and Dustin Hoffman?
It's about a Washington spin master who needs a war to distract the public's attention from a sex scandal involving the President.
A month after the movie was released Bill Clinton was involved with Monica Lewinsky in a sex scandal which dominated the press,
which took attention away from 3 military operations Iraq was one ,
ie operation Red Fox.
Mass media manipulation rearing it's ugly head.

''Why does a dog wag it's tail''?
''Because a dog is smarter than it's tail.''

Dylan said...

Hi Dolores,

Goodness! It's alarming how much we can be manipulated. I certainly hope there is nothing in this AofC speech. It's scary but as much as we harp on about us being the puppets of the US, it is of some comfort that they are huge and a veritable ally against terrorism.

I will add "Wag the Dog" to my list of must sees. Honestly, i really should at least learn a little something about politics. After all, it immediately affects me and all who i love.

Dyl x

lizzy said...

Thank you for your comments, very informative and am glad to hear that the investigation will proceed.

lizzy said...

I find it unbelievable that Clarrie should suggest that the Police should work with Metado3 and Team Mccann, he gets worse by the day. Surely even he can't be that stupid?
Lizzy 20.40PM

felicity said...

Hiya all

2345 Delighted to hear The Pink Shirted One's spinning is being fully monitored by PJs lawyersIf they can stick one on him as well, fair play to them, but suspect it will be more evidence against the gruesome twosome. I always have this vision of Gerry carefully planning for Pink's visits and then they are closeted together for hours plotting and scheming on their next dastardly little plan - cock sure it really will wor this time…whilst Kate hits the drinks cabinet..in another room..they are just doing what they think is best…

Sue How dreadful about Pink nominating Goncalo Amaral as a troublemaker who had to be eliminated and he even got his wish - that is disgusting ! No wonder he and Gerry get on so well - two evil manipulators together. I cannot understand the Portuguese authorities allowing this to happen - UK must be wielding a big political stick. How can he be allowed the power to just keep getting people the sack in Portugal - this is outrageous!

As far as attacking blogs are concerned I see I was subjected to a very sustained attack on the DE lasting an entire weekend in Jan. Pleasingly, rather than convincing people what a bad person I am it had just the opposite effect and the blog just got better still so thanks Claris. I had one of their monkeys on here last night trying to beg support to attack the 3As and McCannfiles 'because they ask for donations just like the McCanns.'. but was able to see it for what it was and sent him packing! I will continue to target those who perpetuate McCann spin on the DE …and they know now I have a pretty thick skin..

2345 - Too right we will stand firm against The Pink Shirted One to protect human rights including the right to free speech, fundamental in a democracy. The man is becoming a megalomaniac and must be resisted!

Ah now we have our Lovely Ironside back - fresh post

Luv Viv x 21.06

leigh3 said...

Ola chicos y chicas!
Ahh. Such a pleasure to use my poor Spanish without being vilified for it :-)

Lizzy: I think JudithC on 3Arguidos is right to raise these serious issues, and it is right for us, as thinking, feeling individuals to become aware of how the 21st Century is a changed world. We'll pay for it, so we had best be prepared to think about it, individually, and collectively, in my opinion. Thank you for the thought provoking posts. It's much appreciated.

Goedenavond Atardi, Viv, Doc, Dyl, and as always, Dolores of the pink rose.

I guess we can all see that it was yet another fraudulent claim when headlines declared the McCanns would be cleared. Their friends, family and supporters and UK Government staff (CM et al) will also face police inquiry, in my opinion.

The 21st Century is proving to be more difficult for manipulators than they imagined. Stalinist techniques of mass control are sooooooo last century!

Justice will pursue Madeleine's cause, in time, I think, and the treatment of her case will make a powerful statement about how we, the public, define the 21st Century...and deal with other big issues: politics and media included, imo. Buenos noches y boa noite.

leigh3 said...

Ah! Irina! Nearly missed you. See you next time, honest inquirer. Have a lovely weekend.
Leigh 3

leigh3 said...

And finally.
Sorry, Irina, but I can't help but comment on your post about control politics, and the machine of manipulation in all its forms.

My comment: you are right.
See you sometime. Have a lovely weekend.

leigh3 said...

Doh!!! It's 21.30 GMT.
And Irina, I meant 'right' as in correct, not right wing as in politics.

felicity said...

Hiya Ironside

I have always felt that the reason the media love this so much is because it sells copy and if there is one thing that advertisers love it is that. Little Maddie has just been used as a logo to sell, sell, sell and make lots of money, not just for her grasping parents. The scale and the immensity of it is hard to comprehend..sometimes in Gerry McCann I see pure manipulating evil and then have to haul myself back and say surely not..I am thinking the unthinkable but am I. The interest of the American media, advertising has always been there.

I recall some pretty powerful stuff trying to convince us of their innocence - the private detective who went there for two weeks and made those videos. Interestingly though I feel the support in the States seems to have really died away. Have some of these moguls detected something in the American and British public they did not bargain for - the failure to believe in brand Kate and Gerry. Did they overestimate their attractiveness ? To me they are not even a particularly attractive couple and their personalities are repulsive. We have failed to see Madeleine as a brand image they we want to pay for the Justice for Maddie spirit has taken over IMO and it has cost them very dearly, but still, perhaps, all has gone quiet on the Ameriican front until we get the movie and I suspect that even if Kate and Gerry are convicted, and I still think they will be, we will still get the movie - so who were the biggest fools that got used at the end of the day? I think somewhere along the line their perceived marketing strategy has gone awry..people are horrified by the neglect itself, let alone something far worse. British and I think, Americans also, are just not in the mood for Madeleine the movie or cute little Maddie dolls, we see her as a real little girl, a victim, and we want justice, not slick marketing strategies. Just like Diana, we cannot stop her from selling newspapers and that breeds money, but we can, at least, insist her own parents do not profit from the death of their little girl.

As for Murat, I think Max Clifford has not offered to promote his innocence, that has to be a prerequisite to promoting Murat's story if he is innocent. This I think the public would be prepared to buy into and listen to because if he really is innocent it will be a genuine human interest story of cruel victimisation and suffering.

Viv x 21.38

PS Great to have you back, Luke is much better now thanks and goes for a check on the 15th but benign lump that got infected (in tube) now OK and can be left alone.

Irina said...

Leigh3 good night!
I will be off soon.
Read that Ben Affleck's movie is comming out in UK.

ct1538 said...

Ref. Ironsides' posting.

Doesn't life throw up some strange co-incidents.

Jonbenets' Mum, Patsys' first employment on leaving university was with the McCann/Erickson company.

felicity said...

Hi Irina

That was an interesting post - Gordon Brown does not use spin himself but cannot defeat it either. He came into power and his position was weak. We saw this with John Major following another powerful and long standing leader Thatcher. The powerful civil servants are always there regardless of their so called political masters. It is simply too much to expect that one man no matter how honourable can walk into such a massive set up and make huge waves - he cannot. Change for the better will be very hard won, slow and painful. Prime Ministers get plotted against and can be brought down - Harold Wilson suffered much from this. I believe Pink could be doing much meddling with Whitehall colleagues that Brown could not stop or necessarily even have a clue about. However, I still believe Brown would and will do his utmost to ensure there will be justice for Maddie .. he is a highly intelligent man and a very determined one despite right wingers in the corridors of Whitehall plotting against him and the insidious machinations of Pink.

Viv x 22.16

ct1538 said...

Whoops, sorry.

Time now 2219hrs.

felicity said...

Leigh - sorry I dont seem to have caught up with you, but as ever enjoyed reading you - have a great weekend too
Luv Viv x 22.24

felicity said...

Hiya CT

Do you have a view on what evidence Leics police are likely to have collected in UK and how helpful this will be in prosecuting the Mcs? Do you think there would have been political interference or deference to the Mcs?

Would be interested to hear your point of view on this, if I recall you are in the job or ex. How strong do you think the evidence is likely to be as an overall package?

Viv x

felicity said...


Was there a justification offered for now releasing the Ben Affleck movie. Is is just that things would be seen as less raw now to the Mcs or is there a perception well they are involved in her death so what the heck?

Viv x

Anonymous said...


Good evening

I was the one that sent you the pm you posted here, 2345. I just wanted to get in contact with docmac(also being a South African, and in a kind of the same profession) and at that stage,did not know how to post here. Sorry if I have caused suspicions.

felicity said...

Dolores - thanks for the Osama virus warning.

Dyl/Dolores - There does not seem to be a day goes past lately when the DE do not post some hatemongering headline with "Moslem" in the headline. It is repugnant. They dont say "catholic" or "protestant" to describe people do they...

Like you say at least we are lucky in having the wit to think beyond the headline and the freedom to discuss it. Your posts on this were very interesting.

viv x

PS Spring must be around the corner - there is a ladybird crawling around by my keyboard - keep watching where he goes trying not to hurt him! I bet Maddie liked ladybirdsxxx

felicity said...


We all value are anonymity on internet forums and I regret to say I do not like you asking for information that would identify Docmac.

Please respect other posters and do not do this.

Viv x

docmac said...


I am not sure if this link was mentioned before on your blog. You will need a few minutes to read it. The original poster was probably the most respected of all those who posted on the now defunct Mirror forum. Well worth a read.


Dolores and Dyl that Bin Laden email is a recurring hoax that has been circulating since 2002. Please just delete it and do not forward it to any more contacts. When you receive e-mails like that just copy some of the text into Google and add the word hoax and all will become clear. There are quite a few variations on the theme too.

Atardi goedenavond, ek is nog nie tuis nie, maar darem naby. Sal uiteindelik Sondagaand by die huis wees. Voorspoed tot dan.

Leigh3, did you see my question re your daughter? If it's too much information for you to provide that's OK :-)

Viv, looks like things are warming up nicely. I love no news. I love silence. Jane Tanner must be soiling herself.

Anonymous said...

I suggest it was Mrs White in the living room with the rope.

Anonymous said...

Viv, with all due respect I did not ask 2345 any information about identity. I just wanted to get in contact with a fellow south african professional.I apologise if I have caused any offence/
Ek is jammer as ek enige ongerief veroorsaak het, genade, ek wou net in verbinding tree met docmac

felicity said...


I dont have any written rules - we are all polite adults here - but that one, I think, goes without saying! There are probably hundreds of people on the internet who would like to get in touch with Doc!

Doc Ola meu scarlet pimpernel

I will go have a read and come back

Great to finally bump into you - just missed you getting up for a peeee last night :-)

Hope you had a fab day!

Luv Viv x

Dylan said...

Hi Dolores, Irina, viv, doc, lizzy, L3 and CT,

Great reading all you have to say. Another very informative and thought-provoking forum tonight.

Going to bed now, am becoming a bit of a bed monster recently! Spring does feel as if it's on it's way and the sun now feels warm on my face when it's out so i'll be needing less sleep soon!
Must check i if i have any of my stash of hazelnuts left under my pillow!

Lots of thoughts to keep me awake tho!

Nite all and Do Svidanya, Irina.

Sleep well! Dyl x

docmac said...

Anon I note your use of Afrikaans, but there are too many anons around for my liking. If you can post using a name I will gladly answer you, within reason. I am off to bed soon as I am getting up at sparrow's fart, but will most likely be here tomorrow evening again.

docmac said...

Night Dyl, sleep well.

Southerncross said...


Ek het geen rede om nie 'n naam aan myself te koppel nie, hierdie was die eerste keer wat ek hier gepos het en weet doodeenvoudig nie hoe anders as om anoniem te gebruik nie. Geniet die Suiderkruis en die hardekoolvuur. Joe, dit was rerig nie aangenaam om op hierdie manier kennis te maak nie.

SueB said...

Dolores et al

It is NOT a virus, It is a HOAX!

This is from one of the Hoax sites:

The message contains false and misleading information and it should not be forwarded.

Before forwarding any virus warning email, always take the time to check the veracity of the claims in the message at a reputable anti-virus or anti-hoax website.

Sending warning messages about non-existent viruses or messages that distort the truth about real viruses is entirely counterproductive and only adds to the ongoing problems caused by computer security threats.



felicity said...

Gosh Doc

This spudgun lady seems extremely bright - what a fantastic post = can the Portuguese press or even the Portuguese authorities really be telling all these lies! I have copied it for tomorrows article for everyone to read on here:-)

She will be referenced and hope she dont mind!

Thanks a lot

Like you say the quiet before the storm that we know is brewing...

dolores said...

Hi Viv
YEEHAAA, my very first cut and paste, thank you so much for the help xxx

Hi Docmac, You have had another memorable adventure today I see.
I feel like a ninny now abouth the hoax, it was sent to me by a friend,and I fell for it

08.02.08, 11:01pm

What the Union President leader said was that he was not going to discuss Mr. A Ribeiro's comments on the Madeleine McCann case because the PJ had other priorities that were to hom more important than discussing Mr. Ribeiro's comments on this case. He also said, that Madeleine Mccann's case was not the only case the PJ were handling, and that there were other important cases. In no way can that be construed as the case not being a priority.

Another article that I expect will be pulled once his lawyers get ahold of the proper entities....

• Posted by: alsabelIa • Report Comment

felicity said...


So I can teach then - sorted!

Alsabella is always worth cutting e pasting ..you must be well chuffed :-)

Luv ya

SueB said...

Dolores, don't worry. But a little tip - if you ever get an email again about a virus telling you to forward it to all your friends - you know it's a hoax! :-) Just use good old Google to do a search.

docmac said...

Good article, hey Viv.

Southerncross I meant no offence at all. I am stalked and trolled by many 'anons'. I hope to speak to you on here again but am exhausted now.

Ek het groot geword in Constantia, Kaapstad nadat my ouers hiernatoe getrek het. Snaaks genoeg het ons net om die hoek van 'Southerncross Drive' gebly!

We can chat next time.

felicity said...

Nite Nite Dyl

Me blog is getting to intellectual for me :-) but reading it amazes me and I am learning at my usual slow rate :-)

Dont get choking on your nuts!

Luv Viv x

dolores said...

I am delighted, I have been trying for weeks to master it,but some info on the net has been to conflagerated for me...

Luv ya back xx

Do have a good rest, don't talk to me about squireels and nuts, they eat all I put out for the birds and they stole most of my crocus bulbs,little blighters....lol
Thanks for that,we live and learn don't we.

felicity said...

Doc and all who are left I am shattered and must go to bed now - will respond private tomorrow Doc.

If you are still around and before I hit the sack what does this mean:

Felicity is in liefde met Docmac.


felicity said...


I am delighted for you darling

I just cant bear to try and learn anything about computers off the net bores me rigid and does me head in - just ask me kids

I can remember years ago my eldest son getting very cross with me though going crazy about my new computer - how the heck do you expect me to type me letters on this damn thing I am going back to my little word processor ..now come on mom I will show you again LOL - it is gathering dust in the wardrobe and I would not dream of getting the damn thing out now! I love the internet and it does not do that!

Luv Viv x

isis said...

sean bhea isea mise anois le cois lei san uaigh agus an cos eile ar an bhruach... Sorry couldnt resist , all in the intrest of diversity and multiculturalism.

leigh3 said...

Hi Doc,
Just saw your post 21.22GMT. Suspect we'll be ships passing in the night at this rate. Didn't see question re my girl going to S.A. Update: flight postponed today. She departs early 10.2.08. Ho hum. Stuff happens.
Hope you and yours have fab time with the wildlife. Remember: they're not wild...they're furious! No invites to Fashion Week for them this year :-)

leigh3 said...

Good Morning All,
Here follows a headline from The Sunday Times today 10.2.08, and you can comment on it by going to the paper's online edition (google Sunday Times):-

"Madeleine McCann and Metodo 3: Private eyes, public lies
Paid £50,000 a month to find Madeleine McCann, the Spanish detective Francisco Marco said he hoped to have her home for Christmas. He issued this photofit of a suspect last month; it set off a media frenzy, but Portuguese police say it has ‘no credibility’. Christine Toomey turns the tables on a private eye who is anything but..."

I think this article is Clarry's attempt to distance the McCanns from the failures of their discredited detective agency, although the reporter hints at what lies beneath the surface, ie potential for fraud.

Have a lovely Sunday, all.
Leigh3 07.23GMT

leigh3 said...

Oops. I meant to say 'apparent' failures, as seen in the Sunday Times article. Of course, M-3 may well be delivering a far greater service to their clients, McCann and others, by receiving £50K per month...