22 Feb 2008

PORTUGUESE LAWYER NEXT LEGAL STEPS

I hate to confess this but I really do find him rather yummy...(!)

On a more serious note, he indicates that the McCanns could only have been held in custody if the Portuguese felt the homicide was intentional i.e. murder, non-intentional homicide i.e. manslaughter they could not be held in custody. This may explain why they were allowed to come home whilst the investigation continued. In most cases of homicide by parents on a child, the parent lost their temper and attacked the child, not intending to kill them, and so generally the charge is manslaughter.

"According to Portuguese law, we don't need to have the body to decide that it is homicide".

He gives a very clear and helpful explanation of the legal position under Portuguese law.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6980000/newsid_6988000/6988040.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&nol_storyid=6988040&bbcws=1


Viv x

427 comments:

1 – 200 of 427   Newer›   Newest»
leigh3 said...

Ah, yes. That's interesting. The Portuguese don't need a body, and by the way, do not need the defendant to appear in court, for a criminal court to hear a criminal charge, and convict or acquit.

It is an interesting aspect of the McCann Machine of media manipulators that they have thrown out so much confusion since last year that many people missed the clear PJ statement: a criminal trial can proceed in the absence of the accused.

That's a cute trick in this cynical age, I think. Crooks abuse the system, and then the system bites back...at least in Portugal, it does :-)

felicity said...

Hiya Leigh

It is highly unusual for a criminal court to hear a case in the absence of the accused. That would only happen where the accused has well and truly done a bunk! Judges here will issue a bench warrant for the arrest of anyone not turning up! As he says the PJ could get interpol to arrange for their arrest. The right to a fair trial encompasses the right to be heard in your own defence.

Viv x

Niki said...

Photon from 3A wrote:

Post subject: Removed DE Articles - reply from online editor & webteamPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:14 am


Last night I wrote to Geoff Marsh, asking why the articles had been removed. His reply:

"Hi xxx, Many thanks for your email. For operational reasons, some articles previously available on express.co.UK have been temporarily removed. I'm afraid I can't go into any more detail. Best wishes, Geoff"

The Web Help response was a bit more appreciative

"Hi xxx


Many thanks for your email - and indeed your continued support as a regular reader.

I assure you, we do value you - and your input.

Due to operational reasons, a number of stories which previously appeared on express.co.uk have been made temporarily unavailable.

Apologies if this causes any inconvenience or disrupts your use of our website.

I'm afraid I can't go into any more detail.

However I would like to emphasise once again that we value your readership - and are grateful for your ongoing support of express.co.uk.

Best wishes

The Web Team"

---

Photon, if you see this:hope you don't mind me "steeling" your post?

Viv, are we allowed to copy and past from other bloggs?

Have a nice day, and thank you for interesting articles!
Niki, 10.38

ratonthebeam said...

From Anthony Bennett yesterday>>

Please could you visit the Prime Minister’s website and support my new petition on child neglect by clicking on this link. It will take you just 2-3 minutes to add your name.

The petition is very short for simplicity. In practice, the law would have to be framed in terms of 'for an unreasonable length of time' and 'having regard to all the circumstances, including the age and understanding of the child' etc.

The petition was signed by 60 in the first week, let's see if we can get bigger numbers, so as to really make an impact on the topical subject of young children being left on their own.

I'll be bringing you up-to-date with other matters soon

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/no-to-neglect/

Then please forward this e-mail to as many other contacts of yours as you feel able to.

>>For anyone interested.

rat 08:51 GMT (leaving for work now, might look in later)

irina said...

Morning all.

On the subject of being prosecuted without presence of the person(s): It is allowed in many countries due to many difficulties of extradition from some states. England I think is the second after Argentina by the amount of harbored criminals convicted at the place of crime.
So I would say it will be slim chance for their actual punishment in that case. But at least the justice for Madeleine would be served.

In relation to DX: the only article listed, but not available, about Madeleine case is titled:
MADELEINE'S MOTHER CAN SMILE AGAIN
Dated 12 June (just after they finally dumped the body).

Is it a message from DX?

dylan said...

Morning Viv and hello to all who's posts I have been reading last few days!

I've had such a hectic week. My friends at uni are all suffering from overworkeditis this week. March will be a welcome quiet!

Exam was awful on Monday. Most of us thought so. I'm really not a fan of economics and i find the terminology and graphs that all look the same so confusing! We haven't even started on the environmental side of economics yet and we only have 3 weeks of lectures left on it! I did find out monday, though, that I have passed climate change so it was a day of bitter sweetness!

There were some very strange goings on on this blog the other day with posters posing as doc etc. Bizarre! Well done viv for rising above it all.

The article Wright made me shiver. I know the ferry boat. I think it is shut now & I maybe went there once or twice back in the late 80s. It's on Riverside and just up from Rose Lane which is Norwich's notorious red light district.All very disturbing.

The french "sighting" I read about yesterday is blatantly a pile of rubbish. After all of the publicity, if Maddie had been abducted, her holders would have to be severely stupid to take her out anywhere in public.

The DE removing articles sounds ominous too. Surely something must be happenong now and as you say viv, if the DE has been warned because of publicity, this could well mean that a trial is on the cards?

Regards to all, I'm reading you this week but haven't much time for posting. Looking forward to when I do!

Dyl x

Anonymous said...

Morning Viv and all

I did not get a chance to look in again last night and I am only here for a moment now. I searched for McCann articles on DX site. There are 4 results, one each on Michael Barrymore and Branson and two on that suicidal blonde who married for money.

Thanks for the link, Viv. You find him yummy? Oh well, you did once say you would love to love in Portugal ;-)

docmac

2345 said...

niki,

Thanks for photon's (3 A's) replies from DE and Web Team. The comment "we do value your input" means provided you do not support law, order and Police procedures !!

The despicable tactics in that Forum increase the value and popularity of sites such as this.

Well done Viv - thanks again for providing an arena for speaking and sharing the truth with the sane and sensible. 10.30 a.m.

Anonymous said...

whoosh cluck............ gone again. Think they may have left that one up to see if there were any left loitering with intent. isis

2345 said...

Leigh 3,

Interesting to read the Portuguese do not need a body. tylersmum downloaded a rivetting report on the Capriano Court Case and outcomes; highly recommended reading - 3 A's thread - Do They Have The Evidence to Charge Them?

Joano's story is horrific with parallels to Maddie's case. The mother had appealed for daughter's return after he death and concealment. Joano's uncle had contempt for life. Leonor & Joao Cipriano are currently serving jail sentences for murder and concealing the body of Joanna Cipriano. Her body was dismembered for disposal.

Hip, hip hoorah for sterling work PJ. Not forgetting, of course, that the father in this case, like Gerry, falsely accused PJ of framing them. I think I'm right in saying Joano's father publicly supported the McCanns.

Proof of the expertize, proof of a highly effective judicial system and proof that the guilty in Joano's case are where they belong - behind bars. 10.40 a.m.

Anonymous said...

Leigh
Hi,Found this very interestind regarding DNA,enlightening info, for non believers.

xx D 10.46

Michael Crimp, from the Crown Prosecution Service, said one "telling piece of evidence" had been a carpet fibre from the footwell of Wright's Ford Mondeo which was found in the hair of Tania Nicol.
She was also found in water, at Copdock on 8 December.
"Her killer failed to destroy this significant piece of evidence," he said speaking after Thursday's verdict.
dolores

Anonymous said...

I have often wondered what is the glue that binds the secrets and lies of the Tapas 9, all associated to the healthcare profession. Having read the new articles today on this site it cannot be any clearer 'MONEY'. How far has this glue spread, further than 9 one thinks, allegedly.

The lawyers that have flown to PT, are their fees being paid by the Fund. The new one, conveniently with new Directors. Is it any wonder they need more.

'A criminal trial can proceed in the absence of the accused in PT'. Does anyone know what effect that has on the criminals if they live in the UK. Interpol arrest, can our Gov. interfere with that. If they do, will the public know.

2345
The sick patient on the flight, was this just another orchestration in this macabre story. If it was as suggested a mask to bring something home then are so many more involved in this horrible can of worms.
By Zepholita 10.59am

2345 said...

Zepholia,

On 3 A's yesterday I read the credentials of board of directors of limited company handling the Funds. All high powered and influential.

If you have time, thentherewere4's thread on 3 A's under Justice for Madeleine is an 'eye opener' in many respects.

People with no moral or social conscience are capable of 'unthinkable' acts and behaviour. This case has large numbers of people with that mentality; the corruption in this case is as abhorrent as Maddie's death. 11.10 p.m.

2345 said...

anon,

Brilliant Police work and outcome in the Capriano case - are the imprisoned parents mates of yours? 12.30 p.m.

dolores said...

2345
Hi,Don't feed the troll, he's hungry for an argument,let him starve.He is a coward any way,afraid to show his ID.

xx D 12.35

ratonthebeam said...

Dobywallah

Why don't you go and find some gainful employment, instead of trolling round here all day? Perhaps you could learn to spell and use punctuation properly, while you are at it. If anyone is the moron it is you, and every word you type here just emphasises that sad fact. Go and play with your pathetic wee blog or something and leave the grown-ups in peace now, there's a dear.

rat 12:37 GMT
BTW that is Associate Professor Rat to you.

felicity said...

Hiya Rat

BTW that is Associate Professor Rat to you.


Thanks so much for that - you really do make me laugh so much!!

Are some people on here mishearing what the yummy Portuguese lawyer is saying

he is saying they do not find Madeleine's body to proceed, not they can proceed without the McCanns!!

~Dont mind stuff from 3As being ocpied - the emails from the DE "operational reasons" are very interesting indeed. Nothing techie about that as Mum 21 has tried to insist on here....one where she was reverting too much to her nasty little self - floated into cyberspace.. I would say most likely charges imminent and DE had a ligh level warning! Mum 21 does not want us to talk about it. Well then we will!!

Viv x

2345 said...

Viv,

Rest assured, I've not misheard or misread what PJ are saying - bless them all. If you have time, you'll really enjoy the report "Court Hears Joana's Horror Story" - 'yummy' guys in serious action will have you glowing with pride, perhaps even drooling !!!
To save you checking back - 3 A's Do They Have Enough Evidence thread - tylersmum. 1.15 p.m.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone see the Youtube Troll video. Hilarious. Now when I read see posts from these saddo's I just picture that video and the description it gives of a sad TROLL.
Zepholita 13.25pm

ratonthebeam said...

Hey, what do you all make of this?

news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1306401,00.html

Clearly the Mcs have run out of innocent Berber families to pester and harass, so now they are shifting their operations to France. How many more innocent people are going to be wrongly implicated, because they happen to be "swarthy" with blonde children?

And the "witness" is "sorry she didn't grab her". If anyone tried to grab MY child they would be getting a swift belt in the jaw for their trouble.

rat 13:41 GMT, off to do a class now, will be back later

2345 said...

ROTB,

I love it - a swift belt in the jaw. Would you like a list of the well deserving ? I'll willingly lend a hand.

I'm of the same view of many others (3 A's) that French sightings were not only predictable, but expected long before now. Sometime before I was banned on DE, Ironside, resourceful as ever, downloaded a highly dubious advert for 'observational' work in, you've guessed it France ! M 3 favoured bribing gypsies in Huelva for a far more convincing 'performance in the meantime. It's since backfired so M 3 have been despatched to France to carry on their 'dirty work'.
2.00 p.m.

Anonymous said...

rat , i hope you went referring to my anon comment as i put my name at the end!! isis

ratonthebeam said...

Isis
Don't be daft, I KNEW that was you :)
It's the incoherent, paranoid and delusional "anonymous" that I was aiming at!
rat 14:06 (in a class & should be working....)

Anonymous said...

ha ha :))))))))) doby the house elf so !!!! isis

felicity said...

Hiya ROB - some hard up 18 year old seeking to top her income up! I have tried to ignore this French sighting by a Dutch girl because it is just so sickening and we know that in a few days they will move on to something else. The McCanns worked in Holland, have friends there, and found it necessary to pay them a visit on their European promotional tour.

If they are going to demand the tape to view it as some further sad PR stunt let them, but this is what their official spokesman has to say, I think this man has learned his lesson from his press conference acting in the role of senior polic officer hunting a suspect! Maybe he was warned - just like the Daily Express, things are falling down around their spinning little ears IMO and Clarence and Gerry are not quite dovetailing - Claris wants to watch his position and not get drawn into further lies and criminal behaviour hence:

On the latest, Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for her parents, said: "We believe from indications we have received that the child is not Madeleine

His remarks are increasingly becoming very bland again! He is definitely a frightened man IMO.

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Last night I went to a talk given by Nick Davies, an award-winning investigative journalist who writes for the Guardian. He has a new book published called Flat Earth News, which lifts the lid on PR and spin being reported as 'news'.

Basically, the national press are now governed by commercial interests and don't have the resources - or much inclination - to carry out real reporting any more. Nor do they check their facts, and he listed loads of stories we've taken to be 'true' which are either the re-hashing of pieces which have appeared elsewhere first (we're all aware of this with the DE), or published without any serious checking.

He commissioned researchers at Cardiff University to investigate the checking of stories, and they found only 12% of stories appearing in the national press had any facts checked at all; and then, usually only the one, central fact to the story, not all the others.

In this climate, then, here's Clarence handing the red tops everything on a plate, and the editors rubbing their hands with glee because having the McCanns on the front page means vastly increased sales.

This explains an awful lot, depressing as it is.

I've got Nick Davies' book, and if there's anything else noteworthy that relates to the reporting of this case, I'll post it on here.

X Little Grimacing Cells :(

felicity said...

2345

I also loved ROB's "good smack up the gob, if they tried to grab my child"

but how many times can i keep telling her she makes me laugh and I love her intelligent posts!

Great to have you both and Isis too!!

Luv Viv x

Anonymous said...

Viv,
You love her intelligent posts!!!
Only in this blog you can find one or two who are more stupid.
In the real world it would be very hard indeed.
IDST
(If Deleted Still True)

ratonthebeam said...

I see Doby the House Troll is back.

rat 14:39 GMT

ratonthebeam said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=516836&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

McCanns are now "begging" to see the video!

Well I suppose it makes a change from begging for money.

rat 14:45 GMT

felicity said...

Rosiepops/Chinadoll/Christabel/Supertroll McCann/my personal stalker et al

You really ought to get out of the habit of calling people stupid - it may give the impression you can think of nothing better to say.

I notice you like to create new slogans. Did it really take you a couple of days solid to think up IDST? Extraordinary!


Viv xxxxxxxx

LittleGreyCell said...

14.55

I thought IDST stood for I Don't See the Truth...

XLGC

dylan said...

LGC - lol! Professor Rat, I think Doby the House Troll is about 4 yrs old! Hope nobody nicks her lollypop - it would be a case of "ohm! I'm telling my mummy of you!" IDST - oh my word!

Dyl x ;)

2345 said...

ROTB/Viv,

Strange Gerry can take a day of work (at taxpayers' expense) to go with Kate to a European Amber Alert meeting, but cannot be bothered to go to France to view their much sought after video of a Maddie lookalike.

His lack of concern with the sighting is equal to his lack of concern with her abduction. No visit to France (watch tomorrow's papers for false report of it happening) and tennis in lieu of searching on 5 May. He clearly needed a hard physical workout to deal with the stress of Madeleine's death, disposal and charade for PJ's benefit.

Those who play the game cannot see ..... Old Chinese Proverb.

2345 said...

Zopholita/Viv - YoutubeTroll Video.

I've yet to see this, but Gerry's ears and snarling grimace on the homepage does so remind me of the troll in our childrens' much loved Three Billy Goats Gruff. 3.20 p.m.

Anonymous said...

Think the tin hat brigade have been sucked into a vortex and lost in cyberspace, but in the intrest of fair play and at hope4yous request i did leave a trail on the DE for them to follow. isis

dolores said...

Viv /rotb....hi
It's called keeping up the pretense,trying hard to convince people she is still alive.
Viv I am going to the garden centre on Sunday, I will look out for troll repelent,if not I will get skunk.

xx D 15.29

dolores said...

Steve Wright
Justice has been served, he is to spend the rest of his life behind bars.
Next we want Justice for Madeleine

2345 said...

Dolores,

There's another call in today's press for bringing back the death penalty.

People who take other lives should pay with their own, not be kept by society. Today's advances in forensic science can prove, without a shadow of a doubt, the guilt of those like Steve Wright.

The fear of this punishment alone would provide the much needed deterrent for those who kick the innocent to death without a second thought. I cannot remember the name of the wife who made a plea for return of the death penalty; her husband was kicked to death by a feral mob after he tried to protect his wife's car they were vandalizing. Now i'm angry - I'm going for a brew. 4.25 p.m.

Cláudia said...

Hello, guys!
What's new?
So the DE is syffering from a technical problem? A selective one, I guess...
Huh huh...

dylan said...

2345, re the death penalty -

In some respects I can see why some people would want this.

I have never lost a loved one to a killer, for which I thank my lucky stars, but morally, I just can't condone taking a life for any reason. I don't think anybody has the right to take another's life regardless of what they have done. The bible (although i'm not religious) contradicts itself on this: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. and then: thou shalt not kill. I am affiliated with the latter. But then I wouldn't stamp on an ant either!

Also, I DO think that heinous crimes such as rape and murder should be dealt with in such a way as to cause maximum suffering to the perpetrator and in some respects this can also serve as a deterant, such as chemical or physical castration in the case of a paedophile as was discussed on an earlier forum.

Death is much too quick. When it's done, it's done and not being religious, sadly I believe there is nothing when we die and therefor, after a murderer has been put to death - that's it. There's no chance to repent for the repentable. There's no chance to realise what a terrible thing they have done for those that have a shred of morality in their derranged minds.

I strongly believe that society should be protected from these animals (no actually, calling them animals is too nice - monsters, maybe) and locking them up for good is an option. Many prisoners "enjoy" a better state of welfare than law - abiding citizens on the outside. I think that is so wrong. They should have amiserable existence. In that way, a prison sentence may actually be seen as a deterent.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating forgive and forget. I know for sure that I am not a good enough person to forgive if any of my loved ones were harmed. I'm just saying, very inadequately, that i think death is too final, too easy and not for us to pass sentence. Some people do "find the light" after a a terrible crime. I just think we should give them a chance to show any "good" that may have left. After all, they are the sons and daughters (some poor mother's babies). I would hope if one of my babies, ever did such a wrong, they would at least have the chance to show that they are capable of such a right.

Such a horrible dilemma.

Dylx :(

hope4truth said...

Well thank goodness Viv and Alsabella started their own blogs or I would have got my life back completly (I cant remeber what I used to do with all my spare time LOL)...

Any news from anyone I have read posts but not sure what is going on... Look at all the press there was about Steve Wright before he went on trial and no one pulled any of that???

hope4truth said...

Hi Dyl

Hope you are well your exam sounds terible at least it is out of the way.

I agree with your post if someone harmed my child I would want to kill the virmin but I dont agree with the death penalty.

In England when it was suspended the Murder rate went down. And it does not deter anyone in America...

Mind you the poor lady whos Husband was kicked to death I can understand where she is comming from.

It is time to take back our streets and instead of pandering to these thugs make them wear pink jumpsuits covered in floweres and pick up litter with the words I have been a Naughty little Boy on the back they would not look so cool then would they...

ANyhow hope you are ok...

Anonymous said...

Well, I guess it was the best thing that DE could do. Having lost all the quality providers of comments for their articles, there were only two solutions left for them to consider: a) let the half a dozen of McCann lovers stay and dream on and on and on and on and do a lot of destruction for all parties involved, the McCann's included; b) shut the whole thing down for good since no healthy, polite and respectful discussion was possible anylonger. Margarida(17:16 pm)

dylan said...

Hey Hope!

Great to hear from you. You just made me laugh. Pink jumpsuits! I think they should also be made from spandex and worn when it is very, very cold! ;)

Yep, exam was shite! Alas it is not all over yet. We have a second, bigger one, without multiple choice, in April and a piece of coursework on economic tools to deal with pollution due 6/3. Re the exam, I've seen a book which is £42 but looks as though it explains things really well. Idiot proof is what i need as far as economics goes. I hereby vow, to never, ever use the word "marginal" so long as i shall live, (after the exam) on pain of death!!)))
As for the coursework, I've chosen waste on Everest and the Sherpa Economy. At least that will be closer to my heart!

I agree with what you say on the death sentence. Of course, because it's such an objective notion, I can't blame anyone for having differing views. I vaguely recall a debate we had at school on this subjuect and it all got very heated!

I'll try to have a dally on the net and see if USA stats reflect the death penalty as a deterrent. (I can't spell this word!). If not, I'll ask my American friend. Annoyingly, she seems to know everything, even economic theory (spit, pah,pah!)

Dyl x

Anonymous said...

I would vote Yes for the return of death penalty. Some crimes that we read and hear about these days, specially those that involve sexual abuse of children, deserve only one punishment - death!
Once upon a time, i was young and believed in "reformation" of criminals, but that was long ago. Have had the opportunity to see that there's no way one can reform a wild vicious animal disguised as a human being. (Margarida, @17:24 pm)

dylan said...

Margarida,

I sincerely respect your take on this. We all come from so many different walks of life and have experienced such a diversity of woes and sadness.

Life would be so much easier if we all agreed but then wouldn't it just be so boring?

Good for you and I'm glad I can see your point of view as coming from a reasonable and balanced, respected person.

Dyl x

dylan said...

Just for interest sake, see this link:

http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/thoughts.html

I haven't got time to read it properly but have saved it as a favourite to read later.

Portugal was the second country to abolish capital punishment.

From scann reading, it is a very fair and balanced article that takes on board welfarist opinion and morality. It does say that one cannot judge entirely the efficacy of the the death penalty as a deterrent as society has made changes in other ways. Eg, divorce is so much easier these days, thereby negating the need for murder to get rid of spouses in the good ole style of Henry VIII! Also, zero tolerance of some crimes in New York has given a "no-nonsense" aspect to potential offenders and that appears to work too.

What plays on my conscience the most though, is that one of the statistics reported, fairly interpolated, that for every capital punishment, 4 lives were saved per execution in Texas.

Hmm, food for thought and now I am confused about my own ethics!

Just goes to show...

Dillie xx

Anonymous said...

dylan,

It's not an easy position to take and cause to defend, believe me. It hurts inside, a lot, believe me, I wouldn't want to watch it being done, just like i couldn't watch the whole video clip of Saddam Hussein's execution. I was shocked and crying, but one has to make options and I for one, would make a radical one on this matter. Get rid of the rotten human being samples and try my best to make this one a better world with and for the ones who treasure and respect life. It's almost like taking care of a garden, sometimes we have to get rid of nocive (but pretty) plants, so that the sweet and beautiful flowers can have their chance to show us all their beauty :) (Margarida, 17:54 pm)

2345 said...

Dylan,

I take your point regarding death penalty. Following it's abolition life sentences were seldom, if ever shortened; Brady & Myra Hindley being two examples. Steve Wright may not well live to be released after his sentence, but many young killers today certainly will.

It's complex; those who abuse have themselves suffered abuse; it's this versus public safety at the end of the day. Spare the rod and spoil the child does not to my mind mean physical, but mental discipline. My wise and loving grandmother used to say "if you beat one devil out, you'll beat two more in". The bottom line is respect: for rules each other and society. This is what we're all standing for in this case - pure and simple. Upholding rules which are the same for everyone and our right to voice this. 6.05 p.m. p.m.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Everyone,

Regarding the death penalty, I'm against it.

I agree with Dillie that I would rather the offender have years to contemplate the error of their ways, and morally, I can't condone the taking of a life as punishment. (I DO believe in non-physical punishment, however, so don't call me a bleeding-heart liberal).

Funny thing for me to say, not being 'religious' in the accepted sense, but I believe none of us on Earth is important enough to dish out death in this way. It's a philosophical viewpoint, but there you go.

Quite apart from this, I don't believe that DNA evidence can't be meddled with just as easily as can other evidence; just look at the controversy about Henri Paul's (Diana's driver) DNA - was it swapped to make him look like a drunk for political purposes?

Additionally, I don't think the death penalty is a deterrent, assuming you use it only for the crime of taking life. (If you threatened it for stealing sweets, then of course, it might be).

Would the death penalty really deter those with psychotic tendencies? Or those up to their ears in drink and drugs, when reasoned thought is absent? I don't think so.

Saw a discussion on this on Sky News this morning between Simon Fanshawe (against) and Jon Gaunt (for). (I used to know Jon Gaunt, and he manifested his current personality such as it is now back in the old days. He's just a bit better turned-out now!).

I don't think the argument should come down to money, either. I really can't condone that someone should be killed because it costs money to feed them. This elevates money to be of far greater importance than human dignity, and personally, I already believe money to be much more important than it should be.

Anyway, since others have declared their views, thought I'd add mine.

X LGC

dylan said...

2345 & Margarida,

Thank you for being so sensitive in your arguements v my own.

As you will see from my last post, having seen it in the light that 1 execution saves 5 victims in Texas, makes me question my own beliefs.

Closer to home, Wright was living and running a pub in red light district deep in the heart of Norwich. One of my best friends from school, who i still keep in touch with, has a misguided sister who turned to prostitution in Norwich for her own reasons and problems in life. She had so much going for her but, thankfully is still alive. What scares me is that it could well have been her that became a victim but, thankfully she is still alive. She has a daughter, and I'm glad for her sake she still has a mum.

If things had been different and she had been murdered by this bastard, I probably would change my opinion on the death sentence on the grounds of that it may not have happened if capital punishment existed.

It's just one of those things that maybe we shouldn't judge unless we have come close to its influence I guess.

Again, thanks for your thoughts. It's so nice to have this forum with such reasonable and caring people to talk to who don't have to resort to nastiness just because there is an inherent difference of opinion.

All credit to viv & appreciative regards to you both!

Dyl x

LittleGreyCell said...

P.S. Didn't mean Henri Paul's DNA, meant his blood. Idiot.

dylan said...

LGC, you are such a wise little grey one!)))

....or does opus teach you all he knows? It's all that omega 3 y'know!

I aspire to your eloquence!

Dyl x

Atardi said...

LGC,

I'm reading the posts of today and I think a better name would be IDWTSTT.
(I Don't Want To See The Truth)

LittleGreyCell said...

18.50

Many thanks, Dillie, but you're extremely eloquent yourself, you know...

Opus teaches me quite a lot about herring and, erm, well that would appear to be it. Come to think of it, I also know quite a bit more about Iceland now, and these days I can go straight to the ice-cream freezer in 10 seconds...(Aisle 5)

X Little Grey Cornetto

LittleGreyCell said...

19.00

Hi Atardi,

How about CHIMP? (Clarence Has Immorally Manipulated the Press).

;) LGC

ratonthebeam said...

If you all want a good laugh, I suggest you all get over to Supertroll's blog; they are now slagging off people who are actually trying to help them!!!! Hahahahahaha!!!! I don't know who it is, but obviously they know a bit about Internet Law, because they are actually quite correct in what they are saying, and they think it's Doc trying to wind them up. I honestly don't think it is him - he's not likely to waste his time on someone that stupid - but it is pretty funny. And a sign of their total desperation!

rat 19:13 GMT

pedagogiek said...

Goedenavond Leigh 3,

I read your post this morning at 6.50 (Dutch time). Friday is the longest working day for me.

And today my son celebrated his birthday with his schoolfriends so it was a very long day!

Thank you for trying to greet me in Dutch. You can also do it in Spanish or Papiamento. I really do appreciate that. Maybe Afrikaans like some others do. But I can only readthe read Afrikaans. I can't write it.

As for the Dutch girl. I feel sorry for her. She wasn't on the national
tv and national papers. So..........

The best news I ever read.

leigh3 said...

Ah, yes. That's interesting. The Portuguese don't need a body, and by the way, do not need the defendant to appear in court, for a criminal court to hear a criminal charge, and convict or acquit.


Justice for Madeleine.

Atardi said...

Leigh 3,

Pedagogiek must be Atardi.

Dutch time 20.17

Anonymous said...

rat have you a link for that site, i feel like a good laugh. Isis.

ratonthebeam said...

http://supertroll.blogspot.com then open up the comments under "wonderful post by anon" (That heading is pretty funny in itself!)

rat 19:22 GMT

Atardi said...

Hallo Viv,

I couldn't access your blog yesterday after 22.30 (Dutch time)

Anonymous said...

That is just so funny , tank you rat, i have had to grab the nearest emesis bowl to me !!!!! Im afraid that supertroll sounds like a poster on the DE . Sorry for the typos but i can barely see the keyboard. !!!!! isis

pedagogiek said...

LGC,

Yes I think CHIMP is a better name, but would they choose that name?

I don't think so.

A narcistic intelligent person likes attention. It does'nt matter if it's positive or negative. They just want to say what they have to say.

Atardi said...

OMG,

Viv another post without my name.

LGC, it's from Atardi.

Groeten.

Atardi said...

Goedenavond everyone,

Can anyone tell me who Southerncross is?

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Do you have a link to Alsabella's blog? I did have it but can't seem to get on it now, must have the wrong url...Lizzy 20.00

ratonthebeam said...

http://theworldaccordingtoalsabella.blogspot.com

Now Supertroll thinks the person trying to help them is ME!!!! Hahahahahahaha!!!! What a hoot, it's well worth a peek just for novelty value!

rat 20:08 GMT

Anonymous said...

hi lizzy, its www.theworldaccordingtoalsabella.blogspot.com. ISIS.

Anonymous said...

rat ... saw your comment there and wondered how long it would take for the paranoia to set in :))))) isis

Anonymous said...

guys you are not going to believe what i have just done. Wanted to pay supertroll a visit and when keying in the address i accidently wrote... blodspot.com !!!!!!!!! you should see what came up!ISIS

hope4truth said...

Ohhh Isis hope my husband dosent see what I have just looked at he may think I have really flipped (he keeps giving me funny looks for being on here so long) LOL

ratonthebeam said...

isis!

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!

What a scream! Oh dear, I can't see the screen or keyboard properly now. This is too much!!!! ROTFPIMP now, how much humour can a person handle in an evening!

Ohdear, ohdear ohdear!!!

ahahhahahaha!!!!

rat 20:22 GMT

hope4truth said...

Dyl

Spandex would be fantastic wouldent they all look like idiots picking up litter and cleaning walls.. I think the press bigs these thugs up by giving things cool names like Joy Riding etc if they said silly little boys stealing cars they will never be able to afford as they dont go to school etc

As for the death penelty it is a tough one but inocent people have been executed and in the USA it is more about how much money you have than the crime (get a good lawyer get off dont then spend years on death row until the execution)... And God forbid one of my children is in an abusive relationship and keeps it quiet and one night snaps and kills her partner I could not imagine having to go to say goodbye..... Oh bloody hell how morbid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope the book you need has some answers what are you studying for???

20.36

felicity said...

LGC - I don’t see the truth - how remiss of me not to see the hidden meaning in Troll's latest little slogan. Maybe we should honour it by addressing it in that way in future - hope you are reading IDST - could even be Idiots Don’t Speak the Truth!


2345 - good point about Gerry can just take time from work for his own self-serving spin but is not actually so concerned about the alleged French video to go and view it. Very quick flight to France! Hey he could even go on the ferry in his nice new 4 x 4 - find Madeleine company car! I wonder who he thinks of when he tees off with a nice heavy iron on the golf course - would not be Goncalo Amaral, would it?

That snarling picture of Gerry McCann gets pride of place on another McCann site, I see. Cannot blame my colleague for just wanting to set the scene for people..Wasn't Rosie bleating about complaining about me to Google and getting that pic/his posts removed? No one asked him to pose for it! Have not heard anything from Google!

Dolores - maybe I should just hang some garlic up! But hey he keeps us amused

2345 - the death penalty is a difficult one - as a supporter of human rights and strong opposition to barbarity I have always been against the death penalty. It does not seem to act as a deterrent - the murder rate in UK has increased far more than the population since we abolished it and is very high in parts of the US where they still have it. However, for the sake of victims, and in the case of particularly serious killers like Wright and child killers, I have to accept there is a powerful argument this may be the only way some will feel better. It can be a horrifying thought that one day these animals get released - the other killer of the young girl has been ordered to serve 34 years, so her poor mom, knows this animal who had sex with her daugther's corpse will one day be released. I firmly believe that people who have demonstrated they are such an intense danger to the public, should never be released. I do emphasise some victims may feel better by the death penalty though, others take the view it is a lingering death being held in custody and a better punishment. One that psychopaths just cannot handle because they are no longer in control - hence West and Shipman took their own life. Maybe we should give offenders like these the choice. Why bother to keep them alive, at huge costs, if they really would rather die. I don’t think I can be clear as to my views on this. I just think an eye for an eye leads to war. People who live under barbarous dictators, often emulate that behaviour and cannot live in peace. I do think it may be a dangerous road to go back down really but there are many powerful arguments in favour for the most serious murderers, who cannot be rehabilitated.

Claudia - Ola, minha querida! I like the DE's techie problem - how frustrated the McCann trolls must be with nowhere to vent their spleen! And perpetuate their lies and stupid propaganda…just for you IDST.

Dyl - there is a lot of evidence that if we treat people like animals when they are locked up they have an even bigger chip on their shoulder when released and present a greater danger to the public. With paedophiles, it may not just be an issue of sexual attraction to children, often it has to do with the old power and control thing again and what the perpetrators themselves suffered in childhood. Chemical castration is not generally considered a useful solution. It is more about attacking the attitudes and thought processes that make these people so dangerous. They have very strange views and perceive themselves as the victims, rather than the children they harm. Changing those distorted views is an uphill battle but is the only way to make children more safe from them if they are to be released. Some just should not be - but they can con and manipulate going on courses of cognitive behavioural therapy etc and declaring themselves "cured" to get a parole date. Great care needs to be taken with this. I think it about the quality of the staff available to assess these people. Good Clinical Psychologists who understand these offenders are in short supply and get burned out with a very stressful and often quite horrific job, particularly if they work in the custodial setting.

Hope 4 - I am glad you don’t get your life back completely because we would miss you. I think you solved my dilemma - I don’t really believe in the death penalty - but if that happened to one of my grandchildren or children when they were younger I would kill him! We really do need to consider far more how victims feel - that poor mom on the news tonight after that animal killed her beautiful young daughter - looked so utterly distraught - we need to be asking moms like that what they want to happen to the killer and listening very carefully to the answer, I think.


Viv x

hope4truth said...

LGC

Good evening to you and Opus I miss his avatar...

All very strange this DX deletion but I must say I dont miss some of the posters...

Just reading back over the Death Penelty posts and both for and against so balanced and you can see both sides that is what debating is all about not just screaming at some one...

LINK PLEASE !!!!!!!!!! STOP MENTIONING THE NEGLECT THING WE ARE SO OVER IT !!!!!!!!

lol Oh to be on a forum with normal people at last (well nearly all) xxx

20.40

hope4truth said...

Evening VIv

It still makes me laugh the way some Anti posters still say you are talking to yourself by starting with your blog name felicity and signing off Viv goes to show how thick some people are LOL...

No news then quiet before the storm do you think? Lets be honest most of what the DX had on there was very Pro McCann so dont know why CM would think it would go against them at trial???

Odd ???

20.46

Anonymous said...

hope and rat.. iv just been taken away from the computer!!!!!!! My god i should stay away from computers.isis

ratonthebeam said...

I have just noticed that the "snarling" picture of Gerry is a dead ringer for Biffo the Bear!

rat 20:58 GMT

hope4truth said...

Isis

LOL that was funny...

Just read your post on Alsabellas site and googled (was a bit worried about what would come up) ha ha ha..

Yes strange headline on each Mail and DX...

dr_val said...

Good Evening All,

Hope you're all well and nice to see so many familiar faces from DE. One of Photon's posts was posted here this morning. A follow up one:

I sent the following e-mail this morning to the online editor at DE:

"Dear Geoff Many thanks for taking the time to reply (I'm sure you've had a lot of enquiries). I'm even more intrigued, now, that you seem to have "re-released" a Madeleine article from last June. Also, the (small) article in today's hardcopy is not available online. Hopefully, in the near future, it will become evident why these actions were taken. In the meantime, you could probably write a decent sitcom with the theories flying around some of the fora regarding the Daily Express's disappearing articles :-)"

His reply:

"You're probably right xxx ...but I'll leave the sitcom. Truth always seems stranger than fiction, somehow! Best wishes,"

I found that last sentence quite intriguing :-)

BW

aka Photon

felicity said...

Hope4 - I think the Viv/Felicity thing just goes back to what I was saying earlier - they do not have any sensible arguments to offer on the case.

I did just pop over to hag I mean bagheads site for a laugh - what sort of a mind are we seeing here? Quite depraved - I liked the post of mine that was reproduced - thought it was one of my better efforts. The hatred of Doc seems to be even worse than for me. Now he said one of the TAPAS changed his statement - I reckon that must be true!

RAT - you keep making me loudly gaffaw - I wonder what the neighbours think I get up to ! Biffo the performing GerryCareBear ROFLMAO HIya Dyl and Isis - I hope you enjoyed that too!

Vivx

ratonthebeam said...

For the benefit of our foreign readers, who never grew up with The Beano -

http://www.militantesthetix.co.uk/punk/Comic%20Marxism.htm

Biffo the Bear is near the bottom of the page.

rat 21:19 GMT

felicity said...

Hiya Dr Val

Thanks for sharing that with us - truth always seem stranger than fiction..what an intriguing comment. I think he probably knows a lot more about the truth than we do and has been told to seriously tone it down.

Also notice from my own correspondence with the DE that when you get an email from "Geff" it is a legal issue, otherwise you just get unsigned one from one of the drones. Very interesting indeed. Will have a look at the Maddie article they decided to re-release from last June..pro,presumably. Stopping the comment about the McCanns was obviously an imperative for them, but still somehow they want the money the articles draw so have to resort to just putting one on the print version, so people do not get the chance to say what they think! What a revenue losing downer for them eh!

Great to hear from you as ever!

Viv x

dr_val said...

Hi Viv

I don't think any of DE articles are available (last time I looked) and I didn't copy and paste the article they released briefly this morning. However one of the other posters responded with this:

"I agree Photon - here is a guess - two things struck me in this - I dont know if this is what DE are trying to do subliminally but..
1.
Later the couple’s buoyant mood was tested when questions were raised about their past. Just a week after having to fend off suggestions that they were in some way connected with their daughter’s disappearance, they yesterday had to deny that any past “conflict” could have led someone to want to harm Madeleine.
Speaking calmly, but clearly exhausted, Gerry McCann said: “There is nothing in the family background to hide. We have made British and Portuguese police aware of our circumstances and they have said there is nothing of relevance and we have no enemies we know of.”

QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR PAST??

2.
“I cannot think about anything else at the moment other than finding Madeleine. I do not know if I would be safe to go back and practise as a doctor at the moment.”

SAFE TO PRACTICE AS A DOCTOR - WHY?

It could be a leap to suggest that DE have left this article for a reason but the above two quotes are very interesting.
I think the DE are either being sued by the McCann's or being gagged because of some juridical complexity?"

Anonymous said...

Oh docnot what you doin
goodness gracious me
Vivvy needs a bedpan
but she only wants a pee.

Sorry your out for six caught again DOCNOT !

dr_val said...

Anonymous

I think it's time for your tablets

Anonymous said...

dr_val said...
Anonymous

I think it's time for your tablets

Friday, February 22, 2008 1:54:00 PM PST

electro convulsive therapy more like. ISIS

felicity said...

Hiya Dr Val

That is a very odd remark isnt it safe to go back and practice as a doctor! Why would this even enter his head? Did you read Dolores comments about Geraghty his millionaire friend in PDL being involved in the proposed rebuilding of Leics hospitals but following an audit in between 15 May and July 2007 about substantial increase in projected costs the whole re-development programme got dropped..suggested costs had risen from about £770M to £911M. Someone was getting greedy. The implication was that Gerry was indeed working on his trip to PDL hence his ugly behaviour on the holiday bus. I also wondered whether his essential business trips home had something to do with trying to salvage this project. Dont like to say it but I would not put it past Gerry to happily accept a backhander from Geraghty who wanted to get a bit richer still! Also I always wondered who kept Maddie in deep freeze. The PJ said they knew she had been moved around different locations.

Re the DE - I recall Rosie making some odd announcements few days before ..will be busy /..not on much..important meetings..very productive. It is clearly possible they obtained an injunction against the Daily Express. The other obvious and even more likely scenario is the Contempt of Court Act 1981 - newspapers can be in very hot water as I am sure you know if they print harmful details about a sub judice case and there has been much bleating from the McCann camp about their right to a fair trial under ARticle 6 European Convention of Human Rights. Rosie does not quite put it that eloquently - she kept telling us they were just going to pop off to the European Court ummm after exhausting all appeals and waiting about 5 years!

Interesting article sub judice Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2005/aug/08/pressandpublishing.mondaymediasection


Viv x

Anonymous said...

hi viv.. did you catch the nudge nudge wink wink stuff going on between rosie and christabel re photos they had sent to the pj ? this went on for a while. Now call me paranoid but i had a reply to a post from rosie on one occasion and the syntax and format of the post was way off her usual mo, she is conspicuous by her abscence today as quite a few of the pros have found their way out of the vortex of cyberspace to post under article 35743. isis

dr_val said...

isis

I wonder why they chose that article??

leigh3 said...

Hi All,
Just paying a flying visit to read posts. Excellent :-) It might just restore my faith in free speech :-)

Dr_Val: yup, Geoff has a job to do, and best get it right.

Goedenavond! Dutch friends. Rest well. I think we have every reason to be confident that Justice for Maddie will be done, in time.

DOLORES OF THE PINK ROSE: Next!

Ta ra for now Viv. Ta for your generous spirit in setting up this site.

xo
Leigh3

leigh3 said...

And finally...
It may look like journalists have forsaken Maddie, but the media are with Maddie, in my view. Time, and patience. That is what we need, imo.

Did you see S Wright reporting? As soon as he was found guilty, then sentenced, there were interviews with family, friends etc. That takes time, and patience...long before the criminal is convicted.

Night all.
xo

Anonymous said...

dr val ... i wonder too???????? ISIS

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Re your comments about Rosiepops being absent the last few days of the DE, I think he was attending meetings re the case ,maybe with lawyers, I do remember the day after it was reported that Gerry and Kate had attended some meeting regarding the amber alert for missing children in Europe, Rosiepops was asked by one of her gang how did it go with the children? I cottoned on to that and suspected that it was Gerry posting as Rosiepops then. I don't think Gerry is as clever as he thinks he is also as he also made a comment that would be more of a man sort of remark, something like daft as a squirells fart. Now I maybe wrong ,but to me that is more of a mans type of remark. I think near the end he didn't care as he knew the forum would be closed down anyway, so wasn't as careful in his choice of phrases.Lizzy 22.57

dr_val said...

Apparently the Telegraph has just pulled yesterday's article

felicity said...

Hiya all - thanks for the link to the quasi McCann forum on the DE!

Under the sub judice rules newspapers have to seriously tone down reporting in the UK ONCE A SUSPECT HAS BEEN ARRESTED - now I am not saying they have, but this is clearly a possibility. Rosie kept demanding well why havent they been arrestd - maybe he got wht he wanted:-) Was the Dutch girl just one step too far? I do not think there are any stones Gerry would not seek to turn in his demonic determination to clear his name - like a charging bull in a china shop!

Lizzy I did not miss the squirrel's fart remark = actually used twice. I am convinced that Rosie was quite often Gerry in person - posting in his lunch break very typically and then after work. Always went off for dinner about 7.30 - time the twins go to bed. I think those posts may well form part of the case against him, just like comments made on his blog where he cannot resist teasing about his own involvement, feeling he is playing a little game , but is still much too clever to get caught!

What an idiot!

Finally, the DE are saying the articles get removed temporarily, after the McCanns trial - they can put them all back again:-)

Viv

felicity said...

Hey guys ..and was Rosie posting on the Daily Express tonight???

Viv x

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
hi viv.. did you catch the nudge nudge wink wink stuff going on between rosie and christabel re photos they had sent to the pj ? this went on for a while. Now call me paranoid but i had a reply to a post from rosie on one occasion and the syntax and format of the post was way off her usual mo, she is conspicuous by her abscence today as quite a few of the pros have found their way out of the vortex of cyberspace to post under article 35743. isis

as i said viv most of the pros put in an appearance but rosies.. no. Have saved her homepage to favourites as nedd suggested so if she posts we will know. ISIS

felicity said...

Hiya ISIS

Actually I just found a newish post by Rosie - appealing against the death penalty for murderers.

I did see all the silly talk between those two again about some vital new photographic evidence they obtained which obviously did not occur to the PJ - they are really quite pathetic and if they actually have been emailing the PJ I think they must have been having a good laugh! Suspect though it was more a case of further sad propaganda

The conclusion re Rosie on here seems to be that this name is kept safe as their primary defender on the DE and a number of people have used it - Clarence, Gerry, feisty aunts etc. A number of differences in style intellect, aggression levels syntax age masculinity feminity internet savvy etc can be clearly determined.

It is really rather sad!

Viv x

felicity said...

DOCMAC YOUR EMAIL BOX IS FULL AGAIN

Viv x

Anonymous said...

yes viv now that you say it leaving her name as a chanel for others explains a lot. I dont know why but every time i think of rosie and christabel i think of aggie and kim pestering the pj about their housekeeping!!!!! ISIS

Anonymous said...

Hi Viv

Daily Mail reporting that Amaral WILL face trial. I have no strong opinions on him, but it just goes to show the McSycophants that the Portuguese justice system bears no resemblance to a close-knit little group of doctors who 'made a pact' to protect their own.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=517685&in_page_id=1770

docmac

Cláudia said...

Finally, the DE are saying the articles get removed temporarily, after the McCanns trial - they can put them all back again:-)

..................................

lolololol
I needed that before going to sleep.
Thank you darling! lolol

Anonymous said...

Post subject: Re: Removed DE Articles - reply from online editor & webteamPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:44 pm

Suspect


Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:13 pm
Posts: 116
Location: Lancashire, UK One of the sad consequences of the archive expunge recently undertaken by DE is that the regular posters on the Have Your Say of the daily Madeleine article have now been rendered homeless. They are currently squatting under the article "Victims' families: I wish we had death penalty"

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/35743


posted by photon , im just in bits at the imagery this conjures up. ISIS

Anonymous said...

Viv

Cleared up some mail. Resend if you wish.

southerncross said...

Good evening all you kind people(goeienaand docmac en rotb)

Rat, I have followed the link you have posted re the wee blog of the named troll. My ,my!What a histrionic (sp?)little rant on that blog. Docmac, I now understand what you have previously said about stalkers on the net,and in my profession I deal with these kind of people on a daily basis .Skrikwekkend patologies.

Anonymous said...

Southerncross

Ek stem saam. I may not speak Afrikaans to you any longer apparently. See the post I have copied below. Hilarious stuff. You know, the funny thing is it is impossible to translate it back into English to show how poor the online translation is. I just loved the 'u' all the way through. If only they knew the implications of using that instead of 'jy'! They would be terribly embarrassed.

docmac

southerncross said...

Hallo docmac,
Ja, the translation is hilarious to say the least.I am sorry if my Afrikaans has caused problems on here-askies. I shall rather refrain from posting(not that I have contributed anything of significance)if that is the case. Baie geskok om 'n sekere blog te lees wat die outentisiteit van beide ons identiteite te bevraagteken.Hoop dit gaan goed met
jou en mag waarheid op die ou end seevier.

Anonymous said...

Southerncross

Jou Afrikaans is heelwat beter as myne! Suiwer Afrikaans, dis 'n plesier om te hoor. Ek bly 'n rooinek. Altwee my niggies het met boere (by that I mean farmers, not 'boere') vanaf Wellington getrou. Ek sal nooit soos hulle Afrikaans kan praat nie. Did your hubby tell you if he remembered what I mentioned?

I see the troll is back. Trolls don't sleep, or they do shifts as they did on the DE.

Nice to hear from you. Stuff the troll.

docmac

southerncross said...

Docmac,
Jou Afrikaans is uitstekend, al het jy op Ikeys geswot. Ek kan net nie die uiterste, kinderagtige onderduimsheid van die trol verstaan nie.Het jy die blog gelees wat ROTB genoem het?Genade! Ek is gewoonlik hiperversigtig met enige gegewens wat ek op die net pos, miskien bietjie paranoies vanwee my beroep en waarmee ek al te doen gehad het met obsessiewe pasiente.My man speem al vir 5 dae golf,sal hom vra oor die prof sodra hy tuiskom lol.Ek onthou wel 'n FX Prins van Tygerberg.

Anyway, to save the troll from an hourlong struggle with translations(with disastrous results)lekker slaap!

felicity said...

Hiya Doc and Southern

I dont understand Afrikaans - can you just stick to English?

Do you have a view on why newspapers are pulling McCann articles?

Doc I suspect you would not wish to stuff the troll:-)

Good to see you again

Viv x

Anonymous said...

Southerncross

You sleep well too. I see Viv has done a runner, so I'm going to hit the sack.

docmac

felicity said...

Isis - it is a good thought isnt it the Pro-McCanns are squatting on the article about brnging the death penalty back ummmm as I suggested above certainly for child killers. I dont think they have your subtle train of thought:_)

but lets not be subtle lets quote them te hee hee:-)


Viv x

Anonymous said...

Oh there you are, Viv. I have to lay me down to rest. I am enjoying speaking Afrikaans with Southerncross and the Dutch posters because I know it drives the trolls f'in nuts. I can't wait to see what translations they come up with, because that attempt at Afrikaans by Mark18 was a blast.

See you later.

docmac

felicity said...

Hey Doc - you are a blast!

Sleep well and see you later

Viv x

Anonymous said...

So where's my mail gone? I'll read it in the morning.

docmac

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
alsabella said...

Hey there!

Viv, just curious...(which attorney do you find yummy???) loool

alsabella said...

Viv,

Leigh is right, in certain cases, such as in cases where the bail term is "term of identity and residence", a trial can be held in absentia, as long as the courts can prove that the arguido was notified at the address provide in the term.
So, yes, the McCanns, for the charges they were made arguidos, can be tried without being present in court...and then, even if the UK did not enforce the warrant, the minute they left the UK, it could be enforced in any other country.
Guess that would put a damper on their travel plans...

Niki said...

Gerry's Blog
Day 295: 22/02/2008

There has been a lot of media attention focussed on a possible sighting of Madeleine in Montpellier one week ago. We only heard of this two days ago and this was from a report sent into the website. Clarence has been inundated with media requests from all over the world for further information. Despite this, Kate and I have had no official notification of the potential sighting nor, more importantly, of whether this sighting has been eliminated by the authorities despite what has been reported in the press.

The continued disappearance of nine-year-old Shannon Matthews is deeply concerning and our thoughts and prayers are with her family. No matter what has happened to Shannon, there can be no doubt she must extremely vulnerable having spent three nights and four days away from home. We hope that she is found safe and well very soon and returned to her family.

------

They hope that Shannon is found safe (like we all do!!), but not a word about "hope" for the sighting of their daughter to be true!

Niki 10.32, Greece

ratonthebeam said...

Niki
They aren't getting excited because they know fine well where Maeleine is, and obviously the little girl in Montpelier is not her.
What I find very telling is the reaction to an potential "new sightings"; they seem to be very half hearted and weak, as though they feel they have to put on some kind of show for the media but honestly can't even be bothered anymore.
They are taking all of us for fools. (At least they think they are). But it is indescribably cruel to implicate other families who Do have genuinely missing children. It is making a complete mockery of their tragedy, and as such, is IMHO totally unforgivable.

rat 08:57 GMT

Anonymous said...

When I first read Prat on the Beam and Nikki's comments, yeah I was really angry, so angry I think if you had been in front of me, I may have broken the habit of a lifetime and smacked your smug faces. Then I thought no, this just reduces me to your level and that is place I would rather not be, not even metaphorically. I would hate to have the ugly mindset that would allow me to write the things above that you two have written. Where is your common human decency? Really I am serious, where is it? Have you got any? Pair of horribly nasty and feeble minded bigots and to boot not at all intelligent. Hope you are proud of yourselves. Honestly this is a statement of fact, as human decency goes you obviously haven't got any, you make me sick.

2345 said...

Everyone,

Read in today's press that Shannon's mother has 'just found a faint message above the lamp in Shannon's bedroom saying she wanted to live with her daddy'.

Rather odd don't you think - why has it taken so long to find it ?
9.50 a.m.

Anonymous said...

"yeah I was really angry, so angry I think if you had been in front of me, I may have broken the habit of a lifetime and smacked your smug faces"

If you can get so angry about an anonymous poster on the internet I can imagine what your family life must be like. Your post brings to mind a certain Glaswegian who has recently become infamous. My best wishes to your spouse and remaining children.

docmac

ratonthebeam said...

Aha, I see Doby the House Troll, or maybe it is even Biffo the Bear himself, has joined us this morning.

My sense of human decency is fine, thanks, as presumably is Nikkis. Perhaps if you continue to hang out with us here, your own sense of justice and decency may benefit, who knows, one day you may even aspire to raise yourself up to "our level" instead of just threatening mindless violence. Like the nasty wee ned from the South Side that you perhaps are.

It is also the case that people who constantly accuse others of having no intelligence, are merely underlining the lack of intelligence in themselves.

You have a nice day now.

rat 10:25 GMT

2345 said...

Viv & Everyone,

Having glanced my neighbour's DE today, they've provided grounds for a very expensive libel suit on the basis of the actual Report of the Capriano Court case.

I have forwarded copies to PJ as well as Goncala; the content of the article is not only libellous it's breaches many publishing laws in Britain and forwarded also to PCC.

As the pack of lies is accompanied by Goncala's photo, his claim for damages will be increased.

I'm unable to paste the Report of the Capriano's case tylersmum's produced on 3 A's. DE article today - publishing blatant lies - unsubstantiated, highly defamatory articles is a matter for PJ's as well as Goncala's professional reputations. I've e-mailed them both and despatching hard copy evidence today for their lawyers.

The work of Amaral and PJ in the Capriano case was outstanding. DE have put the noose around their own necks with today's article, the culmination of unrelenting false accusations. Amaral now has all the evidence he needs for suing DE for libel.

I'm contacting 3 A's admin team as well as the Report on their site shows the following DE article is a pack of lies, deliberately compiled to damage Amaral's professional reputation and the outcome of the Capriano Case :

Heading - "Madeleine detective in torture trial. the former head of the Madeleine McCann invesitgation is to go on trial for his part in the alleged torture of a woman accused of killing her daughter. Chief Inspector Goncalo Amarl, 48 - who was in charge when the McCanns were declared official suspects- is accused of lying and concealing evidence in the case of Leonor Cipriano. Da de Dah
Leonor, 36, confessed after 48 hours of interrogation but later retracted her statement, saying it had been beaten out of her. Yesterday a judge confirmed two officers will face torture charges while Amaral will be charged with covering up the beatings".

DE has put the noose around it's neck with today's pack of lies. Thanks to Forums, PJ & Amaral have hard evidence for success in Court when the sue for libel.

Viv, I don't know whether you've read the Report on the Court Case -it's well worth publishing here to illustrate the extent to which DE have lied and grossly misrepresented the case and Amaral. 10.55 p.m.

2345 said...

ROTB,

Good morning .. troll invasion always confirms the guilty are under increasing stress.

The report of the hugely successful Capriano Court case as a result of PJ's expertize has rattled the cages of the McCann relatives. Their mates in this case are behind bars facing a very lengthy jail sentence. The father in this case, like Gerry, falsely accused PJ of framing them - the mother withdrew her claim of PJ beating her. A very, very sad bunch of liars and child killers.

Don't feed the trolls - best let them starve - they serve no useful purpose to anyone. 10.45 a.m.
The McCanns are as guilty

ratonthebeam said...

Good morning 2345
Goeiemôre doc en zuidernkreuz en alle andere Afrikaans-sprekkers, hoe gaan dit vandag?

I had a wee peek at the Supertroll blog last night, and something VERY odd was going on. Someone was trying to warn them about re-printing libellous statements by quoting the Godfrey case, and the Super Troll people seemed to think it was Doc, trying to wind them up. Later on they thought it was me. Anyway, whoever it was, obviously knows a bit about internet and libel law, because the case and facts they quoted were absolutely correct, apart from one small detail. The Godfrey case didn't cost Demon £15000. It actually cost them over a quarter of a million, by the time they were stiffed for legal costs as well.

Anyway, I am glad you did not reproduce the libel about Amaral, in case Viv gets implicated as well - the precedent being Keith-Smith v Williams 2006 - where an anonymous nick is no defence. I should also point out in the Godfrey case that Demon were liable not because they wrote the comments (which they didn't) but because they hosted them and therefore enabled them to be viewed by other people. Who actually writes the stuff is irrelevant. If you enable it to be viewed by others, even if you are only reproducing it for whatever reason, you can still get done. There is quite a body of case law now about this stuff and it is growing all the time, you have to be very careful with what you print online!

I am not that worried aboout Viv actually as she has studied Law herself and so knows what she is doing. Can't say the same for Super Troll though, and now they are attacking people who are actually trying to help them, so it is actually quite funny to watch, as well as being quite sad. It must be very hard to have to live with such paranoid delusions.

Anyway, glad to see you are on the case of Amaral and the DX. I hope he stiffs them for everything he can get when his trial is over. I must say, I am very surprised and disappointed at Mr Al-Fayed, permitting his newspaper to be manipulated in such a disgraceful fashion. it's not like him to be scared of the establishment. I wonder what is really going on there.

I did write to the DX mods politely requesting an explanation as to why the McCann articles were all removed. I haven't got a reply yet (it IS the weekend, I suppose) but I will share it when I do get one.

2345 said...

Docmac,

Good morning .... Daily Mail article is b ...s. Grounds for libel and proof need for Court. I recommend reading Report of the Capriano case "Court Hears Joana's Horror Story" - provided by tylersmum on 3 A's a couple of days ago - thread Do They Have Enough Evidence.

DM article is a pack of lies designed to confound the Report contents and outcome. Clarence's predictable response to information provided in Forums.
You'll see from my earlier post, I've forwarded article to PJ & Amaral. I'll do likewise with any other pack of lies printed by the tabloids. 11.00 a.m.

isis said...

what in the name of god is happening in the media. Just read the article in the mail re mr amaral. We are not allowed cast disparaging remarks of any kind against the duke and duchess of rothley, yet in the the media this man who is innocent until proven guilty as the mc connites put it can be defamed in this way by the press. The mc canns createc a media beast to keep madeleines profile high and it paid off in monetary terms and now that media beast they created cannot be controlled, so now they chose to erase her from the pages???????

2345 said...

ROTB,

Thank you for ypur kind advice and explanation of the legal complexities. I have great difficulty swallowing blatant lies and even greater difficulty seeing good people deliberately demeaned and humiliated. My understanding of libel is basic insofar as Court requirements for written proof are concerned. I find the behaviour in this case despicable and cowardly. Articles and photographs of false accused people are not published in the accused own country, but here. To my (non legally trained mind), this leaves innocent people defamed with no means of knowing it or defending themselves with counter action. I, therefore, often feel urged to challenge blatant wrongs, lies and ill treatment. I hope this makes sense to you. Another issue this case raises is the blatant breach of publishing rules/laws the likes of which have never existed before in my lifetime of 60 years.

I am grateful that you and Viv have the legal knowledge to safeguard this Forum and lay commentators like myself - thank you.

I notice Rosie and co. are discomforted by peoples' direct contact with PJ and Goncala and are sending photos. Not, I strongly suspect, the ones on 3 A's of Madeleine with NO colobama nork I suspect, those of Kate's injuries !! Probably sent a few shots of Gerry playing tennis on 5 May and out jogging the day after his excruating Achilles injury !!
What a shower they are - looking back I don't know how I tolerated their stupidity and viciousness for so long. It's so nice that many of DE members are here. Which reminds me, does Rothaymere still comment on DE or was she culled as well ? I always thought they'd keep the Portuguese link in place; such a good source of info for Gerry. 11.30 a.m.

2345 said...

isis,

I'm equally outraged as you'll see in my earlier post. I've e-mailed contents of libellous DE article to PJ, Goncala and Press Complaints Commission for starters.

To understand the seriousness of the lies in the article, I recommend a read of the Report on 3 A's - "Court Hears Joana's Horror Story" - produced by tylersmum - thread Do They Have Enough Evidence. Today's articles in DM & DE are blatant pack of lies.
11.40 p.m.

isis said...

its a bloody disgrace and im truly sick of the control this pink numpty has but im sure he isnt that smart and he has more powerful elements guiding him. I didnt realise there was an article re mr amaral in the DE?? Ah well no surprise there then. Poor poor little madeleine.

Anonymous said...

goeie middag Rat, dit gaan goed dankie. Ek het 'n paar boodskappe vir jou gestuur met 'n paar fotos ingesluit.

Good afternoon 2345. Are you saying that Amaral is in fact NOT going to stand trial? I must have totally misunderstood the article.

docmac

eurekamano said...

Hi Viv and all, had a short trollfree break. Just a thought but I recall Mrs Healey reportedly saying that K was losing it over the things people were saying on the forums. Could the Mcs have threatened the Express with legal action if they continued to allow the persistent negative comments and theories from posters. The Express has allowed far more of these than the Daily Mail, Clarence's favourite pawn. I see the Daily Mail has all theirs still in place. Express is just covering their backs.
I'm euro too.

isis said...

2345 have you an article number for the DE re mr amaral or is it just on the hard copy version? thanks

2345 said...

Viv & Everyone - Troll Alert ...

Getting increasingly desperate today. Alsabella and myself have just rectified their lies on her blog that Viv's blog has been shut down. Popped back here to let you know.

Some Anonymous prat warning posters to tow the line or Alsabella's site may be closed like Viv's !!!!

Desperate times call for desperate measures. What a bunch of saddos.
12.30 p.m.

Anonymous said...

Neh mind goncy, you might loose some weight behind bars.
I hope the fat greasy slimeball gets the same treatment he helped give Joanna's mommy.
He will no longer be able to post for the forseable future due to him being watched, and does he need watching.
Well Portimao nick is all closed up mmmmmmm wonder why, very suspicious.

2346

Must say you get thicker by the day, you must have a very sad homelife.
That step mother was a nasty piece of work wasn't she, and its rubbed off on you.
You could try being nice but don't think it would suit you anyway.

2345 said...

isis,

Someone else said it's hard copy only - as follows :
"Madeleine detective in torture trial"

The former head of the Madeleine McCann investigation is to go on trial for his part in the alleged torture of a woman accused of killing her daughter.

Chief Inspector Goncal Amaral, 48 - who was in charge when the McCanns were declared official suspects - is accused of lying and concealing evidence in the case of Leonor Cipriano.

She was arrested in 2004 after her daughter Joana, nine, disappeared from their home in the Algarve. No body was ever found but police accused Leonor and her brother Joao of murder.

Leonor 36 confseed after 48 hours of interrogation but later retracted her statement, saying it had been beaten out of her. Yesterday a judge confirmed two officers will face torture charges while Amaral will be chrged with covering up the beatings."

tylersmum produced the Report of "Court Hears Joana's Horror Story" - which includes -

"Mother had appealed for daughter's return after her death and disposal."

"Joano's uncle had contempt for life".

"Leonor & Joao Cipriano are currently serving jail sentences for murder and concealing the body of Joana Cipriano".

"The public Ministry has pressed for sentences of 24 years".

The father in this case, like Gerry McCann, falsely accused the police of framing them. The mother falsely accused the police beating a confession out of her.
Joan's injuries were conducive to falling or being pushed down the stairs.

The successful outcome of this case has alarmed the McCanns whose attitude to the police is identical to Joano's killers.

Articles in DM & DE are wholly untrue and potentially libellous.
12.35 p.m.

2345 said...

Anonymous,

I notice you still loathe law, order and just outcomes in criminal cases; not forgetting, of course, your hatred of damining forensic evidence.

Is Gerry keeping you well supplied with beta blockers ? Sounds as if your blood pressure's sky high again today. Potentially very dangerous, you know, life threatening if untreated. 12.40 p.m.

2345 said...

Docmac,

I'm not in a position to say whether he is or isn't. On the basis of Report produced by tylersmum (referred to earlier) "Court Hears Joana's Horror Story", specifically, the outcome, the case appears closed :

"Mother had appealed for daughter's disappearance after death and disposal."

"Joanno's uncle had contempt for life" .. etc. etc.

"Leonor & Joao Cipriiano are currently serving jail sentences for murder and concealing the body of Joano Cipriano".

No mention of malpractice by any member of the Police. In Fact, the Public Ministry has pressed for 24 year sentences.

The Judges summing up comments - the whole report - is a rivetting read. IMO today's articles are totally untrue - the successful outcome of this case has rattled the McCanns. Remember, the father in this case wrongly accused the Police - as did Gerry - of framing them. The mother accused the Police of beating a confession out of her, deemed by a judge to be untrue. Joano's injuries were conducive to being pushed down the stairs - at home !

Clarrie's reached desperation stakes today - I've forwarded hard copy to PJ - DE made it unavailable online.

Anon's 'lost it' today; lying on Alsa's blog of Viv's being shut down. Mega, mega stress - they hate Amaral's success in having succeeded in putting child killers behind bars in another case. 12.50 p.m.

hope4truth said...

Annon

Why dont you leave your name or blog name when you post? Are yo ashamed of the things you write?

I dont understand your facination with this Armal case? I think it is fantastic that a country will take people to court so they can have a hearing even if it may look bad for the country having someone that may be guilty of such a thing as torture...

Better than the Portuguise hireing a crappy spin Dr to say that black is white while trying to prevent a trial taking place..

Good on Portuagal I say to actually have these things out in the open instead of trying to keep eveyone in line...

As for the Mother and Brother who killed that child they are where they belong and if there has been a mis trial I am sure they will get their day in court..

Never mind the poor dead child I suppose she should not have been born to cause all this trouble.

What a sad sad world we live in when a child is nothing more than an object to be neglected and abused at will.

It is a shame if the torture took place though because if this loving mother did kill her daugheter it may prove to be her get out of jail free card and that would be so wrong but Law must be upheld... Good on Portugal for having this out in the open.

Anonymous said...

Thanks 2345, I'm off to read Tylersmum and then to watch some sport. I see the troll is after you now. It hates so many, must have had some serious and unresolved childhood issues. BBL

docmac

Anonymous said...

What is the matter with you numpties?

it is not the Daily Mail's fault, they are just reporting a story, it is what newspapers do.

Goncalo Amaral is going to face trial for his involvement in the alleged torture of Leona Cipriano. Now how is the Mail responsible for this?

A Portuguese judge has had Mr Amaral in on the 11th February and has now ruled he has a case to answer ans he is now going to stand trial.

You have been repeatedly warned this was going to happen for many months, why so otraged now?

Of course the next thing will be brought into question is the way this man has handled the McCann investigation.

Don't believe me? Wait and see.

Each day that passes now is proving all you narrow minded bigots wrong. Yet you still cannot accept it can you?

2345 said...

Anonymous,

Unsubstantiated gutter press reporting ... the cowardly McCanns' can't handle Amaral's success in this case. Didn't you know he ALWAYS replies to e-mails?
A genuinely great man - well pleased with Clarence's latest misjudgment and DE's stupidity - it's hilarious - played right into his hands - it's hilarious !!!

By the way, you lack one of my stepmother's attributes - intelligence. 1.15 p.m.

2345 said...

Docmac,

I think you'll find the Report interesting. Trolls do hate substantiated FACTS.

Mental illness is measured by a person's removal from reality; no hope for the trolls is there ? 1.20 p.m.

Anonymous said...

Judge Ana Lucia Cruz who sits at the court of instruction in Faro, ruled yesterday that Mr. Amaral would stand trial on charges of falsifying evidence and failing to report a crime.

Anonymous said...

Breaking news.

Murat, Malinka and Walzchuc all taken in for questioning.
Arrested at 7.00 am this morning.
Sol news, I hope this is wrong.

2345 said...

Anonymous,

Sorry to burst your bubble of delusion, but you're gravely misinformed - yet again !! 1.30 p.m.

2345 said...

anonymous,

Unsubstantiated and unreliable - Murat etc. 1.30 p.m.

dylan said...

Good morning all.

I did post a "goodnight" last night as I went to my dad's retirement do but it doesn't seem to have been posted! I probably forgot to hit the post button, knowing me! Lol, It must have made me look really rude - sorry!

Hope, in answer to your question, I'm doing a 1 yr taught masters in Environmental science. I want to do a PhD but because I only got a miserable 2ii in my BSc, I need to do this first to prove I'm capable. There aren't many options I can chose that I haven't already done at undergraduate level so I've had to take Natural Resourceds and Environmental Economics as it was the only option left that didn't clash with anything. I've completed Atmospheric Physics so far and Science of Climate Change and Oceanography is a year course so I'm still studying this. I also have GIS to finish and a dissertation which is worth 70 credits. I've chosen a deep ocean project as deep ocean really interests me and my project is trying to link variability with the Southern Annular Mode. The hope is that it will give better insight to atmosphere - ocean communication so that we can build better climate models to predict what will happen with various scenarios of CO2 forcings. It may just show that it's seasonal, in that case, it won't help anyone!!))

Docmac and 2345, what on earth is doby wally trying to say? I think that given such a difference of opinion on such an immotive subject, 2345 and others really did themselves proud at sharing their point of view and not resorting to bully tactics.

Troll, showed him or herself up as being a very disturbed individual. My 8yr old wouldn't even use silly language such as "if deleted, is true".

Docmac - i still believe in you & bugger the stupid troll! You must have really rattled some cages!

Dyl x

isis said...

2345, i see that the houseelf/troll is using the term i use "NUMPTY" only difference being i apply it correctly. Thanks for the reply re the DE article.

LittleGreyCell said...

13.45

Anonymous,

The impending trial or otherwise of this Portuguese policeman doesn't mean that the McCanns aren't culpable for the disappearance of their daughter, now does it?

All that being abusive on this and other sites achieves is to make people think that the McCanns cannot hope to convince anyone of their innocence without resorting to bullying tactics.

Why would this be?

Do genuinely innocent people feel the need to behave in this way?

Did George Davis' friends and family resort to intimidating the general public when he was proclaiming his innocence?

Did those who backed the Guildford 4 'shout' at the public for having views about their convictions?

How about the relatives of Sally Clark, did they hit out at people who had nothing to do with the case other than have opinions?

'No' to all the above. And these people had actually been CONVICTED. And they were subsequently found to be INNOCENT.

So how is it that those who support the McCanns feel the need to play dirty towards the rest of us who feel they have something to answer?

Would it be because there is no other way they can persuade people K & G are innocent? Surely the best way of doing this is to BE innocent, and get everyone on your side. Certainly not to be innocent, as they keep insisting they are, yet vilify everyone who crosses their path.

This is very suspicious. It is not how innocent people behave.

After all, we are only standing up for Madeleine's rights, which, in the normal course of events, would be appreciated by grieving parents.

But Kate and Gerry and all their supporters seem to be more interested in standing up for Kate and Gerry's rights.

End of, as the saying goes.

2345 said...

Dylan,

Hello ... I share your appreciation of Docmac and everything he says. I've been an ardent support since I first joined DE Forum. It's a compliment that his intelligence and resources cause such disquiet. Anger's such a give away isn't it? It's always fear based; the anger and vitriol meted to genuine commentators in DE Forum left me speechless, quite frankly.

Troll's is a very useful tool - a reliable yardstick; the closer to the truth the angrier they become. It brings to mind a documentary I saw of Hitler's last days and hours holed up in his bunker; ranting and raving, close (I imagine) to insanity - his mental state rendered him incapable of facing the obvious and glaring truth.

Whilst we are individuals, those of the same mindset react identically in parallel situations. Hitler showed absolutely no remorse for the horrors he'd inflicted on others; his self obsession (? mental illness)rendered him incapable of reflection or remose. In turn, this left him no option other than self destruct.

The level of troll's maleavolance towards people who are exercising their right to free thinking and speech is truly alarming; for their sakes, not ours. Every time I read the vitriol, I see the sad, sick figure of a little chap with a shaving brush moustache ranting and raving to no avail; his sane comrades walked away shaking their heads in utter disbelief. 2.25 p.m.

Anonymous said...

LittleG,

Merely reporting that he is to stand trial. No ulterior motive.

2345 said...

isis,

I'm happy to oblige - I hope Amaral sues for a hefty sum !
Yes, I noticed troll's use of your word 'numpty'; sad to say, troll doesn't have a mind of his own.
2.20 p.m.

2345 said...

Anonymous/LGC

Sorry to burst your delusional bubble, but your report of Amaral's is totally untrue.

Leonor & Joao Cipriano are currently serving jail sentences for murder and concealing the body of Joana Cipriano.

This successful outcome in Court was irrespective of the father's false allegations of the police framing them - same claim as Gerry McCann. They were jailed irrespective of the mother's false claims of the police 'beating' her to confess. The injuries were found to be conducive to Joano being pushed down the stairs.

Well done Amaral & PJ. The parents lied about their daughter and lied about you ... justice has been served. The Public Ministry has pressed for 24 year sentences. 2.30 p.m.

LittleGreyCell said...

14.30

2345,

Erm, am I in possession of a delusional bubble? Can I sell it on eBay?

X Little Grey Confusional

Anonymous said...

The Troll is trying to be very nasty today. I think another Troll has stolen a cake out of it's box, the box of 36, it eats in it's rank rotten apt. then guzzles down the sassp-erilla by the gallon.

hope4truth said...

LGC

Hello if you are in posesion of a delusional bubble can I borrow it please... The day is a bit grey and I would not mind being Drew Barrymore for a few hours for a change..

Send it over with Opus I am making Herrin Crispie Cakes again smells terrible but I know he likes them...

x

2345 said...

LGC,

Humble apologies - I realized my mistake as soon as I re-read my post. I'm sorry, but it was, of course, directed solely at Anonymous. Being a very tiresome troll today - lied on Alsabella's blog that Viv's had been closed - hence my reference to bursting his 'delusional bubble'.

Troll is really upset about the successful outcome of Amaral's work in the Cipriano case. In fact, it's driving him absolutely nuts; he's rushing from this site to Alsa's lying his head off in a desperate bid to get attention.

I recommend you read the Report of the case "Court Hears Joana's Horror Stor" - tylersmum produced it on 3 A's - thread Do They Have The Evidence.

Despite the parents making false accusations against police, i.e. they were framed, mother was beaten up to make her confess - the Judge in this case put the pair behind bars for murdering and concealing the body of their daughter, Joano Cipriano. Bit to close for comfort for the McCanns. In this case the Public Ministry has pressed for 24 year sentences - hence troll's utter desperation here today.

I included your initials in my response only to draw your attention to anon's state of delusion. I hope I haven't offended you. 2.45 p.m.

dolores said...

Yes troll,
The Cipriano's got a jail sentence,on evidence and no body,is this the reason for your anger,justice was served for Joanna.She can rest in perfect peace now.
Well done PJ.

2345 said...

Hope4truth,

As explained to LGC my comment was directed entirely to troll anonymous. 2.45 p.m.

2345 said...

Dolores,

Well said ... the guilty are behind bars despite their shameful false allegations against the police. Gerry took a leaf out of the father's book in this case - they both accused PJ of framing them. Despicable people - "birds of a feather flock together" comes to mind. 2.50 p.m.

hope4truth said...

2345

Thought it was not like you but would still like to borrow a delusional bubble for a few hours the day is grey...

Best not take annons it will realise what a complet prat it is if we take the bubble away and it would be sad to take the last bit of happines it has...

:o)

LittleGreyCell said...

14.45

Hi Hope!

I'll send the bubble over with Opus...along with some powerful air freshener for the biscuits ;)

It is a bit grey, isn't it? But we're getting nearer to spring and there are quite a few daffs out here in Surrey. (Ever the optimist!)

Why Drew Barrymore, incidentally?

X LGC

LittleGreyCell said...

14.55

Oh, 2345, I'm awfully offended!! ;)

I guessed as much, so please don't worry. Just thought I'd better set the record straight in case someone didn't take in all the posts...

Love the delusional bubble idea, though! I can think of all sorts of uses for it...

:)

X LGC

2345 said...

hope4truth,

To cheer yourself on a grey day, stick with reality and have a read of the Report I mentioned earlier (to help deluded troll) - "Court Hears Joana's Horror Story". tylersmum produced in on 3 A's - thread Do they Have The Evidence.

It more than confirms PJ's reputation and expertize over and above the lying parents in the Capriano case as well as the McCanns.

This has really upset troll ... it completely burst his delusional bubble today. I think he's gone to take his medication.

Must go shopping ... hope to catch you later. Troll is in a very bad mood today, telling lies here there and everywhere. He may need your help and guidance. 3.00 p.m.

2345 said...

LCG,

I know and hope4 wants one as well !! Very worrying state of affairs ... it could start a mad craze couldn't it ?? !!! We must resist or we'll all end up in la la land like the trolls. 3.00 p.m.

hope4truth said...

LGC

I think she is nice... Born into a great Acting Dynasty and ignored most of her life by them... Early stardom overtaken by Alcohol and Drugs... Then she pulls herself through it with some rehab and had to reinvent herself and work hard and show she was not a risk...

She looks like she has a great sense of humour and seems really grounded...

Plus a big bonus she is not a size zero....

Thanks for air freshner the neighbours are complaining about the smell now next door had their drains up then realised it was me LOL

LittleGreyCell said...

15.10

2345

Do you suppose they prefer La La Land to Tinky Winky land?

X LGC

LittleGreyCell said...

15.15

Hope,

In that case, lucky I sent the Everything's Smelling of Roses spray (by McCanns and McCanns, A Family Company) rather than the old Canal Number 5 canister...

Yes, can see why you admire Drew. But I'm beginning to think that it might be me on the red carpet at tomorrow's Oscars if I took to drink and drugs. After all, look what it's done for Kate Moss's career...(I did have some paracetamol the other day when I had 'flu, but obviously it was too late to fly me out to LA - another LA LA Land!)

X Little Grey Comedian

loz22 said...

see all the ususal mccann supporters, mum, sassyp, rosy and all the others have an email address to request info of where they now post, is it a big secret or will they let the antis post i doubt it.

LittleGreyCell said...

15.30

Lozz22,

Why would Spurs supporters want to sit in the Arsenal end?

X LGC

hope4truth said...

LOL I can see you and opus being thrown off the red carpet as they can see your stash of Anadin sticking out your handbag...

McCanns Everything's Smelling of Roses spray sounds delightful but not sure it will do what I want it to do a bit like their campaign...

I am off to Buy Beer for my Husband as he cant possibly move as the Rugby is on and then he has some friends comming over to watch Football (what a lovely wifey I am) one daughter has bailed to My parents house the other is planning an evening of DVDs in her room anything not to have to watch her dad Jumping off the sofa when a goal is scored...

No doubt will be back later xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

16.05

Hope,

Don't know that I'd make it to the red carpet in those heels - the Anadin would come in handy for the pain while I was waiting for the paramedics to arrive.

My son is meeting one young lady today, and another tomorrow. Naturally, seeing films comes into it as well (poor girls). I once went out with a guy who took me to see a film, then we went for something to eat, then he suggested seeing another film. So much for my conversation!

See you later...

X Little Grey Charmer

LittleGreyCell said...

16.25

FAO Everyone,

On the DE HYS page:-

http://www.express.co.uk/haveyoursay

just underneath the main story headline there's a heading 'ROSIEPOPS'and a message to her from Melbel.

Erm, have the McCanns bought the DE with funds supplied by little old ladies??

Now I've seen everything...

X LGC

Graça said...

Viv, What the uk press are not publishing about the pj inspectors that are going to trial is:


Goggle translation

Sol 2008.02.11
Speaking to journalists outside the final session of the debate instrutório from where will the decision on the pronunciation or not the inspectors, Anthonio Pragal Colaço assured that during the sessions earlier, it was said that their clients will be judged by "a political issue '.

"The decision is taken," reiterated, evoking the "interruption" of the successive defense, the last of which, in the session today, led the causídico to stop abruptly the debate instrutório , which led to the early end of the session.



Google translation

Diario de Notícias 2008.02.23

(…)Paulo Cristovão, one of the accused, believes that behind the pronunciation is a "clear desire of some people to control PJ and stop it." In statements to DN, the ex inspector states that "a number of people in Portugal, already identified, which srub their hands of contentment with the news of the trial," ensuring that, "over time, these people will be exposed." For Paulo Cristovão, this is "clearly a political process since fleeing strictly the judicial sphere."

Also António Pragal Colaço, lawyer of the accused Leonel Marques, Paulo Marques and Antonio Cardoso, said the DN is not "surprised" with the pronunciation for trial, since "the inspectors are to serve as scapegoats to satisfy claims of some political classes, "argued.

Google translation

Correio da Manhã 2008-02.23


The lawyer of four of the five inspectors Criminal Police pronounced in the alleged torture to Leonor Cipriano says not believe in the possibility of condemnation of their constituents and promises request compensation for "five million" to the state, Admitting also to criminally prosecute other stakeholders in the process .


In the decision instrutória of 19 of this month, the Court of Judicial Faro gives as demonstrated that Leonel Marques, Pereira Cristovão and Marques Bom led the interrogation of Leonor on the facts. And, although Leonor Cipriano has never acknowledged any of the defendants as having participated in attacks, the Court considers that this does not exclude its criminal responsibility, since they have been allowed the entry of those people in PJ - who have been the real author the act of aggression to the mother of Joana - in order to obtain information on what had happened to the girl, which were investigated at the time. (…)

About Nunes Cardoso lies the accusation of having forged an information service addressed to the Deputy National Director of PJ, Guilhermino of the Encarnação, where stated the circumstances of the "fall" of Leonor on the steps of PJ in Faro, version allegedly given to explain the bruising on face and body of Leonor, resulting from the aggression that was targeted.

On Gonçalo Amaral then responsible for investigations of 'joana’s case', the Court considers that he failed to report the truth when stating that he had seen the mother of the girl on the steps of PJ and that the inspectors that they were having told him that she had thrown by ladders, in order to commit suicide. The coordinator of criminal investigation will be judged by default, complaint.

"Case is INUSITADO" Cristovão Pereira, the PJ inspector

CM - How was the decision?

Cristovão Pereira - No surprise. But it is an unusual, in that the accused will not respond to torture by beating, but by having, allegedly, to plan for people foreign to the PJ to do that.

-- And was she beaten?

-- No, at all. I was the one who spoke with Leonor more and she knows that nobody attacked her. Moreover, she recognized me and said that I di not touched her.

-- What do you expect?

-- A trial which I will be with the will that only a complete innocent may have. And there is what hitherto lacked: common sense.

REACTIONS

'ARE INOCENTS'

Carlos Anjos, president of ASFIC - Officials of the Association of Criminal Investigation - says believe in the innocence of the defendants. "Leonor had not recognized any aggressor. She acknowledged two, but to say that they had not beaten (ironically, Pereira and Marques Bom, The ones that will answer for torture). I do not understand how people that the complainant clears from guilt will go to trial.

LUSA

Paulo Cristovão says that what is ongoing is an "attack on the institution of the Judicial Police (PJ)"
Confessing that he is "ashamed” to live in Portugal by "postures of some people who are within certain institutions”.

susannah said...

I come here as an anorak refugee.
Yet another forum that once had the most amazing discussion and questioning. Alas there has been a coup and it was successful.
All the good posters have gone, no idea where to.
Sad day, but delighted that I can still find some hope via here in the alighting of truth and justice.

dolores said...

Susannah,
Hi, Has the annorak forum closed down?What happened.Strange goings on is it not?
D 16.59

Anonymous said...

Iis it not very strange that the DE hardcopy has the story about the forthcoming trial of mr amaral and there is nothing on line ?? That with the star pulling all stories and now looking like the anorak site under threat,it looks like there is a concerted effort to disband all those who are openly critical of the mc canns and thier friends. I also ask why is it that the mc canns found it necessary to state that they trust their friends 100%, when it comes to your child would you. Does anyone here and im sorry if this has been discussed,im a forum virgin(almost) think that the friends are heavily involved.ISIS

Anonymous said...

Goncalo Amaral is going down and with him four others. Root out the corruption Portugal, show the world that you do not favour the bent and corrupt no matter who they are.

This man singularly responsible for the McCann's arguido status has an order in for 12 pairs of underpants per day.

Did he get a conviction for Leona and her brother by the same means he tried and failed with the McCann's? Poor Leona she didn't stand a chance and the most terrible thing is that a child abductor/killer is still free in Portugal and is sbducting children again and guess who is responsible? I hope he gets what he deserves.

You can remove this too aunty Vivvy, but it will not change the truth, the day of reckoning is near.
Someone ask Goncalo where Madeleine is, where was she when he was attempting to make her parents fit the crime, where was she when he and his men were meant to be looking for her.

Shame on you PJ you have brought shame to your country, a beautiful country and a beautiful people marred by your inefficiency and dishonesty, but it is no coming to an end. The PJ chickens are returning home to roost.

Anonymous said...

Interesting questions being posed at anorak, at the following link:
http://www.anorak.co.uk/madeleine-mccann

Margarida, 17:19

ratonthebeam said...

Thanks for that interesting link Margarida!

THE SUN: “McCanns slur cop to face trial”

Well let's face it, the McCanns will slur anybody that doesn't agree with their "version" of events.

rat 17:29 GMT

2345 said...

Anonymous,

You're right in that nothing will change the truth. The Capriano case is concluded and the guilty are behind bars failing lengthy jail sentences.

Meantime nothing will change the truth sitting in PJ & Leicester Police files :

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... comensurate with a certain type of borken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull".

The truth is that British cadaver and Police detected and removed damning forensic evidence of Madeleine's death. Your loathing of PJ per se is, frankly, pathetic. Your loathing of law and order is, frankly, despicable.

Your inability to grasp the realities in the successful Capriano case shows you are incapable of reading and understanding simple sentences.
5.35 p.m.

2345 said...

Dolores,

Trolls are very active today; wrongly reported on Alsabella's blog that this one had been closed. I advise you to ignore comment about Anorak's closure without first checking it.

McCanns stress levels are high today. Successful Capriano Report has rattled their cage. 5.38 p.m.

2345 said...

Anonymous,

Those responsible for the arguido status are the McCanns following their lengthy interviews, including FSS information and results.

Innocent people never run away ... they stay and clear their names.
Guilty cowards, just the same as you and as ill informed. Sadly, you lack direct contact with those that matter. 5.40 p.m.

ratonthebeam said...

That is just sad. Why do they persist in posting lies that can so easily be disproved? Then come on here calling us stupid? Actually it's not that sad. It's funny, too.

rat 17:39 GMT

Anonymous said...

Hello Rosiepops, the ONLY person from the DE forum who despite being advised so many times as to the correct spelling of Leonor's name, continues to spell it as Leona. Thanks for the clue and don't try to deny it, though I am sure you will. I've been waiting for you to slip up. As you are so fond of saying, you have been rumbled. You were a sad troll on the DE and you are a sad, rude and lying troll on this blog.

Disregards from docmac/docnot/notdoc/docrot/rotdoc/docwhat/whatdoc/docwannabe/doc holliday/plasticdocmac and all my other aliases so that were so kindly bestowed upon me by yorself and your thick cronies. What a laugh.

felicity said...

OH MY GOODNESS THIS THREAD HAS GONE BERSERK AGAIN!

Just looked in at the very last comment from Doc prior to going out to eat.

Doc - you are fantastic!

Com amor!
Viv x

Will be back later x

2345 said...

ROTB,

It's hilarious ! "Goncala is going down .... " where, to the pub to drink the toast of those behind bars ?

He with the delusional bubble STILL hasn't taken his medication today. He now thinks he's a member of the Portuguese Judiciary ... !!! 5.55 p.m.

2345 said...

Docmac,

Cheers ... you've done it again you star. 6.00 p.m.

dylan said...

Docmac - well spotted & well done!)))

You're far too clever, maybe that's why you receive such abuse from certain people!

Dyl x

Anonymous said...

2345 and Dyl :-)


I forgot Southerncross who is from the 3arguidos (where I have never posted) and who has a google ID which I have stated I will not obtain because of privacy issues. Not to mention that I am every Anon anti that posts on the bogroll (sorry Troll blog), even though I know sweet nothing about internet law. Jeepers, there are 2 people who can speak and write Afrikaans following the homicide of Madeleine McCann. How incredible.

docmac

dolores said...

2345
Hi,Thanks ,I am afraid I am to trusting {sometimes}
Do you remember Rosiepotty hated Goncarlo in his racists remarks about him, DE? He is a giveaway here, like an open book.

Anonymous said...

You say Leonor I say Leona.
Me deny it? Why? Don't you get it still? Obviously not notdoc, I'll say it again. I don't care who you think I am, I may be Rosiepops, I may be someone else, I know who I am.

Just as you know you are not a doc.

Poor deluded fool.

isis said...

has someone left the drawbridge down...???

di said...

My guess is the pros are stirring up as much trouble so that they can say they will never get a fair trial!!!!

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