5 Feb 2008

FEARS OF A BOTCHED TRIAL CAUSED THE PJ TO WAIT

Hi All

Just found this article written on 11/9/07 which is very helpful. However, it wrongly states that bug evidence is not admissible in the UK - it most certainly is!

It is helpful in confirming that the blood found on the floor and windowsill of the apartment was fresh when deposited but the blood "and other body fluids" found in the hire car congealed differently..in other words from a corpse. I am sure this is why the police are so convinced Madeleine is dead.

It is also interesting in indicating that only Gerry McCanns is implicated in disposal of the body. We know of Kate's reaction to that "they have taken her" and collapsing in hysterics. I read an article by Nanny Pennington who was one of the first on the scene. She said she is trained to deal with parents in this state and had dealt with the situation of parents missing a child before but never before had she seen a parent in the state that Kate McCann was in. Those words are ominous. In my view, when a parent is missing a child they are going to be worried and upset, but they are not going to be completely overwhelmed - they will be sure the child can be found. Kate knew that was not an option for her. Madeleine was dead and she could not even hold her body - Gerry had it removed. That must have absolutely devastating..particularly after having to act normal all night through dinner. The impact of such terrible trauma does not seem to occur to Gerry McCann.

The impact upon the twins does not seem to occur to either of them. I recall Kate McCann on Panorama/Antenna 3 interviews saying words to the effect of well yes they talk about her but they are not really bothered, it is not affecting them. Now, we hear the twins play let us hunt the monster who took Maddie? Is this their idea of the twins not being affected?

Again, the article is helpful in explaining the perhaps unhelpful translation of Portuguese law on manslaughter calling it "accidental death". This gives us the impression the McCanns were no more than negligent in somehow failing to protect Maddie from having an accident. That is not what our own law on manslaughter says - it says that parents could be negligent or reckless as to causing death. So, a parent could be reckless by hitting a child, knocking their head up the wall and causing the child's death - that would be manslaughter. If it could be proved the parent actually intended to cause the child really serious injury or death - that would be murder. So often in cases like this proving that intention is very difficult and so manslaughter is accepted instead. Sometimes the parent will be charged with murder but the prosecution accept they cannot prove this and accept a plea of guilty to manslaughter. Sometimes the jury are given the option to find them guilty of manslaughter rather than murder if they do not believe the parent actuall intended the result. If the prosecution can find evidence of planning then intention can be proved. Did Gerry McCann already know Murat? Why did he get so angry when asked that question? Some people, like myself, may find this very suspicious. Likewise, why did he get so angry when asked if the children were drugged and on another occasion start pulling his ear lobe and looking decidely uncomfortable as he struggled to deny the accusation. Maybe they add further fuel to the fire by producing tests on the twins several months later "proving" they did not drug them. It was most unnatural for them not to wake up when their mom, by all accounts, was going completely hysterical and screaming from the balcony "they have taken her". What sort of parents drug their children to make sure they sleep? Were the twins drugged to make sure they slept through a massive clean up operation and removal of little Maddie? Did they witness what had happened to little Maddie? There is evidence she was initially put behind the sofa from blood and hair found there. Was she grabbed by the hair?

Why did the PJ ask fishermen to look for bin liners? They must have evidential reasons for this.

I wonder if the McCanns have been notified in writing of an impending prosecution - is this why all funds will be dissipated by June as announced by Clarence Mitchell. Clearly, they are going to know a lot more than we do! We are under no illusions Clarence only tells us what he wants us to hear. We are not exactly getting an impartial news report from him as he did in other homicide cases when working as a reporter for the BBC.

I think Philomena McCann and Mrs Healy's suggestions the PJ planted evidence to frame the McCanns is ludicrous - where did they get Maddie's blood and body fluids from to do that. Would it not have been far easier for them to just agree to the abduction theory - refer to the exhaustive searches they clearly have done for Maddie - dead or alive, and say they cannot find her? This is not a failure on the part of the police that would give parents a cause of action to sue as the McCanns have suggested. It is a question of them doing everything they reasonably could to find Madeleine but not being able to do so. The words of Gerry McCann himself are inflammatory and highly suspicious "well find the body and prove we killed her". Would this not suggest he knows the body is impossible to find and further that he could not care less about his daughter - just that he angrily defends himself.

Viv x

====================================================================


EXCLUSIVE: Dramatic new blood sample evidence Cops 'tapped' couple's phone for cluesKey forensic tests back police suspicions that Kate McCann accidentally killed her daughter Madeleine and the body was then moved by car, it was claimed yesterday.Experts found differences in Madeleine's blood traces taken from the family apartment in Praia da Luz and the Renault Scenic Kate and husband Gerry rented 25 days after the four-year-old vanished on May 3.They say specks found on the floor and window sill of the apartment were fresh before they dried.But blood and other bodily fluids found in the boot lining and interior of the Renault congealed differently, indicating they came from Madeleine's body at a later time.

The samples reportedly had a "full match" with Madeleine's DNA.Police have since commissioned further tests and analysis of samples based on answers given by Kate and Gerry during interviews. They suspect Gerry helped cover up his daughter's death by disposing of her body then lying about events.

The results from Britain's Forensic Science Service emerged as detectives prepared to give prosecutors a dossier calling for Kate to be charged with "accidental homicide", the Portuguese equivalent of manslaughter in British law.A source said: "The feeling is that the forensics support the theory that Madeleine died accidentally inside the apartment on the night she vanished, and she was then moved."These are sensitive tests but they have been carried out by some of the best scientists in the world. Detectives believe they fit into a wider pattern of evidence which points to the McCanns."There has been talk of 70 or 80 per cent matches. The FSS doesn't do that. It's either a match or it's not. It's either significant or it's not. In this case, it's significant.

"Last night it was also believed phone taps may have been used. Unlike Britain, covert recordings are allowed as evidence in Portuguese courts.Yesterday officers in Praia da Luz began a fresh search of the villa the McCanns rented after leaving their holiday apartment. They are looking for more traces of blood, fibres and other bodily fluids which may be linked to Madeleine.Further searches at other nearby sites will be carried out.

One place under scrutiny is in the nearby town of Lagos where officers will check drainage systems and construction sites.Fishermen have reported being asked to search coves along the Algarve coast for bin liners.

The police dossier of evidence against the McCanns contains hundreds of pages of interview transcripts, witness statements, forensic reports and analysis by detectives.It will be handed this morning to Jose Cunha de Magalhaes de Menezes who will decide if the couple, both 39, have a case to answer.Mr de Menezes is expected to wait for a further update from British scientists before announcing if Kate and Gerry should face trial.

Police spokesman Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa said yesterday: "At the moment the inquiry is being prepared to be handed to the prosecutor. He will analyse it then make his decision."Hunt leader Guilhermino Encarnacao added: "The theory of the death of Madeleine is progressively gaining more consistency. The investigation continues with all means."

A source close to the inquiry said all major results had been handed to British police and the Portuguese authorities. The insider added: "We have reached the tail end."There were claims that the prosecutor would have charged the McCanns last week. But it is thought he was pressured into waiting by the Portuguese Attorney General.Police believe the implications of a botched trial for relations between Portugal and the UK, and the effects on tourism, played a part.The prosecutor now has three options - to bring charges, rule no action should be taken, or return the papers to police requesting more evidence.

Under Portuguese law the McCanns have to be notified of any impending prosecution in writing.It could mean months of waiting for the heartbroken couple who vehemently insist they had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance and believe their daughter was abducted.

Relatives say it is ludicrous to think Kate and Gerry could have hidden a body for 25 days then moved it while constantly in the public eye.One witness believes she saw a mystery man carrying a child near the McCanns' apartment on the night Madeleine disappeared.

Furious relatives accuse the police of attempting to frame Kate and Gerry. Other supporters have even suggested crucial evidence has been planted to avoid accusations of a bungled inquiry.Madeleine's aunt, Philomena, said: "All I can suggest is that the Portuguese police are clutching at straws to get this case cleared up."Kate and Gerry have been a thorn in their sides for a long time. What better than to cast them as villains ?"

The McCanns were named as suspects last week after being questioned as witnesses.Detectives told Kate during questioning that if she confessed to accidentally killing Madeleine she would get a reduced sentence of two years.

The couple were not set bail conditions and were allowed to return home to Rothley, Leics, with twins Sean and Amelie, two, on Sunday.They insisted they were not running away and would continue to co-operate.They have since hired top barrister Michael Caplan QC, an expert in extradition law who represented Chilean dictator General Pinochet in 1999.

He will be instructed by solicitor Angus McBride who defended actor Chris Langham, convicted of downloading child porn.A family friend said the McCanns were being advised on "much more than just extradition" but would not give any further details.

Kate and Gerry now have the headache of meeting hefty legal bills to try to prove their innocence.So far more than £1million of donated money has flowed into the fund set up to find Madeleine. But using fund money is not an option.

FORENSIC EVIDENCEAnalysed by Detective Chief Inspector Peter Kirkham, former Scotland Yard murder squad investigatorClue: Blood on window sill of apartment at Ocean World resort which matches Madeleine's DNA profileDci Kirkham says: "She could have reached this herself which means it is not necessarily suspicious. She could have cut herself or bumped into it so it is of interest but not significant on its own."

Clue: Blood on floor of apartment at Ocean World resort which dried fresh and matched Madeleine's DNA profileDci Kirkham says: "Children can fall over and bump themselves and it's unlikely that they do themselves a lot of harm. The significance of this depends on how much and the spray or pattern it forms."

Clue: Police teams still searching for Madeleine in surrounding and wider area of PortugalDci Kirkham says: "To find a body in any murder is absolutely crucial even after several months. It moves an investigation forward a million miles with new leads. There are soil samples to examine, other forensic traces to detect and items to examine. Without a body, you are at step one, with a body you are at step nine."

Clue: Blood, hairs and other bodily fluids in interior and boot lining of Renault ScenicDci Kirkham says: "This is much harder to explain away innocently. If there is more than a few spots that suggests something sinister. If there is bodily fluid from a decomposing corpse it is almost impossible to come up with an innocent explanation."

Clue: Search of the nearby villa which Kate and Gerry McCann rented after they left Ocean World ResortDci Kirkham says: "If the police believe a corpse has been moved they will ask, 'Where was it wrapped?' If there are traces in the car there would have been traces on clothes. If there were traces on clothes they could have been transferred to the villa.

"Clue: Cuddle Cat, which Kate says she left with Madeleine but she says was found on a shelf afterwardsDci Kirkham says: "This was given as evidence that Madeleine did not wander off. But Portuguese police will not take it at face value now Kate is a suspect."By Jon Clements And Ryan Parry In Praia Da Luz 11/09/2007

131 comments:

Anonymous said...

'Find the body and prove we killed here,' said Gerry McCann.
What if the investigators are challenged by Gerry throwing down the gauntlet, and investigators pick it up and think: 'We won't find the body,Gerry, but we will prove who killed her.'

Thanks for another fine summary, Viv. Eyes wide open.

I notice that blind McCann mechanics rely on the belief that the body won't be found; that all are 'innocent until proven guilty'; that DNA is conclusive.

What if none of that is true? Criminals were convicted long before DNA; trial is the place to prove innocence or guilt; a body is evidence, it is not required in a criminal trial in the UK, and elsewhere.

Justice for Maddie, and every child, however long it takes.
Buenos noches, chica.
Leigh

Anonymous said...

Doh! It's 23.05 GMT. Bless you, Viv, and yours including that lovely boy of yours. Tsk. Boys! Always a worry to their Ma...xo Glad he's ok, though, bless 'im.

Irina said...

Thank you Viv for this post. It is so helpful to go over the facts that brought us to believe that parents are involved. Puts it into perspective. McCanns trying hard to cloud the reasons that made PJ and us to suspect them.
As PJ said some time in January, there is enough evidence to bring the charges, but further steps would secure conviction. Hope that Portuguese will show the same brilliance in bringing McCanns to trial as they did in investigating this case.

Sad is that McCansters will not disclose where Madeleine’s remains are.

P.S. DX forum is dead. It took me 5 min to look through more then a 1000 posts, as before it will take hours.Rosy,china,tinka,mum,u2 too, sombrero and so on - just scroll and scroll. Why they bother posting? Who reads them?

Irina said...

In regards to the body. I think PJ have a pretty good idea where it is, as they admitted they know the path it has been moved. I am sure McCanns and whoever else did not think at a time that their mobile phone locations could be traced.
Even us guessing in our free time gives us some idea, so PJ who are professionally working on it full time must have every possibility checked out.

And yes as annon said no need to produce body at a trial. Lie more easily exposed in court room then through Clara.

felicity said...

Hiya Leigh

On the assumption PJ never do manage to find the body I think at any trial prosecuting counsel will make much of that remark by Gerry McCann - it is utterly damning against him. As you say a body is very helpful but the lack of one clearly does not preclude a trial - they have confirmation of Madeleine being dead from blood and bodily fluids from her corpse in the hire car and evidence of her suffering injury in the apartment. As Sue B has confirmed the evidence of that injury would appear to be very serious. Taken together with all the other evidence including bugged conversations etc and very substantial circumstantial evidence I feel a conviction is highly likely. I also think it is highly likely PJ and Leic Police have far more than we know about!

I think the posters on the Daily Express forum who seek to defend the McCanns are so lacking in basic knowledge - they are not worth listening to. People are not made suspects, charged etc unless it is believed they are guilty of that offence. Clearly they cannot be formally declared "guilty" until there has been such a finding in court - the lack of such a finding at the investigation stage does not make them "innocent" and is quite an absurd suggestion to make.

The McCanns face a formidable case against them.

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE

meu amiga!

Love Viv x

felicity said...

Hi Irina

I agree about the Daily Express forum - it is such mindless rubbish who would want to hang around there for long! I notice they even have this ridiculous fake Mexican Pedro character who thinks he is funny at the expense of little Madeleine - it hardly improves the credibility of those who seek to defend Kate and Gerry McCann.

~What a good point about location of the body - yes maybe they will lead evidence of its likely location from mobile phone triangulation and the fact that Gerry McCann lied about where he was - which they can prove. The fact that the McCanns need to tell so many lies can only lead to one reasonable conclusion! Why would they tell any lies at all if little Maddie had been abducted - they already admitted they neglected their children..We know what sort of parents they are - beyond any shadow of doubt. Their self serving and defensive behaviour ever since has really compounded that view. ~Well done Clarence Mitchell!

I think the court case will be fascinating - the behaviour of Team McCann is truly incredible and the verdict the court will give cannot be in any serious doubt but I really do admire the Portuguese for going to extraordinary lengths to get every possible piece of evidence against this couple so that they have no chance of getting away with.

Our compliments to Portugal - they will bring justice for the little one.

Great to hear from you again
Luv viv x

Anonymous said...

Goodnight Irina, Viv, Felicity, and All.
Am weary now, but just to say: absence of evidence is no evidence of absence. This will take as long as it takes, and it it is wonderful to see the world weird web informing us all, and exchanging information for us all.

Buenos noches, chicas y ...don't know the word for g'night in Russian, but whatever it is, g'night Irina, Madeleine's Russian friend in Ireland.
Leigh3

felicity said...

Goodmorning all!

I just read Martin Brunt's blogs on Sky - one thing struck me - the maker of the film for Panorama quite in a fit of pique because the BBC would NOT allow him to state the McCanns are innocent! Martin quipped that he was with Clarence at the LSE! Fiends of fiends eh ooops sorry typo I meant friends - now you know I did :-)

Viv x

felicity said...

whoops another typo there quit not quite although quite!

Viv x

dolores said...

Hi Viv
Here is a video for you part 2 will interest you, if you have not seen it already.June 3rd interviews Mc's.
Scroll down to Madeleine McCann Mystery.

http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html

xx

Dylan said...

Good morning to you all.

The last two headings have spurred such a good and informative forum. Thank you viv and everyone for the wealth of thoughts.

Docmac, a liar? ROFLMAO! I would ask, where is the evidence for this anon? (nasty anon). It is indeed a credit to doc and viv that they have such infamy and the respect they command has obviously touched a raw nerve!

Yesterday, i think it was, the de published an article with another "The Mcs feel bouyed". This was because an underworld criminal had revealed that Maddie had been raped, murdered and dumped in the Dam. As i've said before, how could any parent be bouyed by this? If only for that it clears their name. I feel sick.

Also read some of Mex Pedro on the de. He really does theenk he is a clown. arrrgh! The whole forum has turned into some sick, nasty little recess apart from a handful of nice people left on there, and it reads more like the stuff of nightmares every day.

Thank goodness for this blog and long may it survive the bullying.

Dyl x

dolores said...

G/Morning Dylan
Itotally agree with you, Viv deserves a round of applause for the enormous effort she has put into creating this forum, Iam grateful toher and Docmac, for sharing the wealth of knowlegde in their own field. and giving posters who want Justice for Maddya good reason for being here and being a voice for her.

Whisper...shhhh I don't want her to get a big head hearing me say this.

Have you looked at the video yet?

Irina said...

Hello Dolores.
Just watched the interview on the link you have posted for Viv. Thank you I have not seen that one.

Some things are really noticeable:
They still try to be nice to PJ.
They are very composed and relaxed (for the parents of missing child).
They have learned their answers by heart (checked the questions in advance and prepared the answers). I would say only one question about what was exact time of the window of opportunity, that interviewer allowed herself not from the list. And Gerry says prepared lie that he can not answer as it could be important in court. I bet it will.

Viv, I think if you could have those links to the old interviews and newspaper articles on the side of the page. As people send them is it possible to place them some ware?

dolores said...

Hello Irina,
Did you watch both the video's?
I agree with you that they are very well rehearsed, but I also thought it was strange when K was asked to describe Madeleine she had nothing to say and looked decidedly uncomfortable.

You know Irina I find it very hard to look at them, without feeling angry,I can't bear their attitude and insincerity they are so icy cold.they chill me to the bone.
xx

Lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Reading the Daily Mail online, it is stating that tthe case is going to be shelved and the Mccanns will lose their Arguido status in a few months. It says that Ribiero was preparing peopel for this by his comment a couple of day ago. find this strange, 24 horas are also reporting a similar account. I really do hope that this is not the case, what is your view? Lizzy 11.40am

lizzy said...

Sorry Viv I must apologise my typing is awful and of course I meant people in previous post..lol
Lizzy 11.42am

Lindsey said...

Hi,

I have been reading your blog for a long time and think the work you are doing is absolutely brilliant.

I have a question i hope someone could help me with.

Can anyone remember the photograph of Madeleine playing in the playground with Murat and a black man in the background.
I am convinced I have seen somewhere that the black man was MW resort security and him name but I can't find it anywhere. Can anyone help.

many thanks
Lindsey

dolores said...

Hi Lindsey
If you click on the McCann files on this page, then click on Madeleine you will find the photograph there, but Murat is not in it, if this is the one you mean.

Lindsey said...

Many thanks Dolores!

Dylan said...

Thank you, Dolores - I've just watched the video.

There are some interesting points that I've taken from it. A question is directed at Kate, but Gerry answers for her. Gerry appears to look down and to his right a lot when he is talking, which is a sign of concealing the truth. Kate is constantly stroking/fiddling with cuddlecat. This shows aggitation but could be indicative of 2 things. 1) She feels frustrated at not having made much ground towards finding her daughter (understandable) or 2) she is nervous of the questioning and could be hiding something.
In the case of 2, resorting to a comforter, this is a relic of childhood. A bit like hiding behind a pillow in times of stress because our primeival (sp?) instinct is to make ourselves as small as possible so as not to be seen. If we can't see our enemy then it is logical they can't see us. She can't physically hide during the interview but that translates into fiddling and so diverting our minds from what we perceive as a danger.

I'm not saying i know which one to be true in this instance tho as it could equally be both! Kate, it seems, always answers the emotional questions such as "how does it feel to have lost a child" etc., and Gerry deals with the subjective issues such as what is actually happening as opposed to how he feels about what is happening. That, to me suggests that he has somehow, managed to rise above his grief to tackle the more logical side of the case. Since it is him that runs the blog and him that can face the world and return to work, recreation and be amongst people, he is the stronger of the two and the dominant partner in the relationship.

I don't know what to make of the dm story or 24h. I really, really hope this is not the case. Not because i want the McCanns to suffer anymore than they have done, but because the other alternative is just too horrible to contemplate and that is the sexual abuse and murder scenario.

So, it's not really so much as i want them to be guilty, but rather, I don't want to think that Maddie, or any child that goes missing, would have suffered so, so horribly at the hand of a paedophile.

I think it is this opinion that unites all of us antis (together with what we know of the case so far) and the pros really don't get this. They think we are the nasty people that are solely out for innocent people's blood. Quite, quite the opposite, we hope so much that the real victim of this sad case didn't suffer that we are prepared to fight for justice based on moral and logical belief.

Hope that makes sense.

If any of you have any information to the contrary of what's being reported today, please put us out of our misery!

Dyl x

2345 said...

Hello Viv & Everyone,

Thank you for the article and interesting, positive comments. A welcome relief, having browsed 3 A's site earlier. Having succeeded in closing DM Forum, Clarence is trying to make mileage via DM article - haven't read it and been 'hooked' appear despondent. Clarence is building on 'haste' naming suspects etc., apparently inferring 'there will be no case' !! As always, I've thrown in the positives - FSS info. in Jane Hill's report.

Also reports on that site of PJ's frustration with delays caused in Britain. In my view, they and the disgruntled gagged British public are at liberty to take issue with The Chief of Police at Scotland Yard. No Government minister has the right to interfer in a criminal investigation and/or pervert the cause of justice. It was recently reported in DE that Police are investigating Peter Haine's dodgy dealings since he resigned. No minister is above the law and should, therefore, be held accountable; the ramifications in this case are far more serious aren't they?

To my mind, there's nothing preventing PJ raising concerns with the body to whom ministers are answerable, i.e the highest authority - Scotland Yard. I don't know whether you're resident in Britain, but I think it's high time concerns were raised with Scotland Yard, the body responsible for law and order.

It's only the 'squeaky gate which gets the oil' under Labour's 'spin, lies, spin lies and more lies' methods of Government. What are your thoughts on direct representation to Scotland Yard? If this sounds profound, it's my reaction to the clout being wielded and negative reactions to DM's article today.

I make it a rule never to read much of Clarence's hype for health reasons; he makes me too angry.

Thank you for your goodness and all your hard work; this site is an absolute tonic.

2345 (JAB) - 2.50 p.m.
PS (JAB) is to avoid any confusion to those who know me well.

? dirty tricks on 3 A's site - two have signed in as - 1234 & 12345 and on the same day. I thought I'd left that level of behaviour behind in DE, but apparently not!

2345 said...

dylan/Dolores,

Your posts are interesting; I cannot bear to watch either of the McCanns and value your observations.

I don't know whether either of you have read the following transcript, apologies if you have.
BBC despatched Jane Hill 9BBC News 24) reporter to Luz for live coverage of events on 7 September -day the parents were interviewed and named arguidos. FSS information released: "An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx.. some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". Also "Sousa himself told of this very fine mist of spray that was found in the apartment." This information was released only once that night.

I was shocked and sickened watching Jane Hill report the above outside the Police Station.
Not only would the profoundly traumatic injuries indicated in FSS details be fatal, I realized that the parents had raised money until false pretences.

I agree with your comments regarding sufferance in the hands of a paedophile. The body of a 6 year old, Sarah Payne, was found close to where I live several years ago, lured, abused and then murdered.

The information given to BBC for public release confirmed to me on 7September that Madeleine died in the apartment; she must have - her parents did not call Emergency Service for immediate hospitalization. I feel as you do in that it was far better for Madeleine to suffer a fatal accident, than the unthinkable abuse prior to being put to death by an abductor.

If McCanns are 'bouyed up' by this belief, then they must be as sick as they are guilty. 2345 (JAB) 3.00 p.m.

Dylan said...

2345, I 100% agree.
I've posted on here before about the sarah payne case. I heard that some people who were camping nearby had heard screams but dismissed them as children playing. It badly upset me the thought that these poor campers will have to live with that knowledge for the rest of lives. I wished and wished that it was me who was there instead and had gone to help but you can't turn back time. It left me depressed for weeks. My own youngest daughter wasn't very old & it really brings it home, hard. I won't let her even play on the street in which we live on her roller skates. It's a quiet street but then Sarah Payne was just playing in quiet field near her house. If she wants to go out to play, she has to wait for me. I hope i'm not smothering her.

I'm glad it's not just me who can't bear to think of the worst.

If the forensics do indicate a certain type of blood spray pattern, then at least it means it would have been quick and the poor little mite wasn't terrified out of her mind. That's all i'm hoping for apart from the less realistic scanrio that she is alive and being cared for, but this is very unlikely.

I can't understand why the PJ would want to do a u-turn after all that has been found up 'til now.

Dyl x

dolores said...

Dylan /2345
I have been out all afternoon, and have just read both of your posts and I was intrigued by your analysis Dylan and very informative, explanation of their behaviour pattern, and thank you for the time you have taken to explain this. Even with all the rehearsing on how to address the public their true personality bursts forth.

2345
I rememeber when you tried so hard to explain the DNA from the Jane Hill report, and all the grief you got for sharing this. They are a waste of space these Pro's for G&K McCann, They are hoping to change peoples opinion of these 2 neglectors and you were making it harder for them.
That's my feeling on it,unless of course there is some relationship to the Mc's as they sound so desperate, and the smearing of the PJ and insults to posters are a disgrace.
This is damming evidence the PJ have,(and they probably have a lot more) this is why I simply don't understand whats going on with this article in DM it's worrying.
I am pleased you are not going to be beaten on this.
Thank you both
xxx

Anonymous said...

The McCanns are going to be cleared. As seen in the Daily Mail.
Yippee!
about time too. Maybe all you armchair bullies will shut up and do something with your lives ha ha.

Anonymous said...

Hi All,
I think the DM story is just one more turn of the spin cycle. Justice for Madeleine, however long it takes.

xo, True friends of Madeleine, and every missing or abused child.
Leigh3

Anonymous said...

Doh! 17.03GMT. Leigh3

Lindsey said...

Anonymous - the mccann's are going to be cleared. If that happens, and I clearly believe they will not, they should at least be charged with child neglect.

If they are cleared, their life will never be the same, people in the UK have very long memories and will never forget.

As for saying we are armchair bullies, at least we look after our children. Can you say the same about them? No, I thought not

dolores said...

Lindsey
I have read this article in Dm and I think others have not read it properly, in their excitement,It actually says that the idea of archiving was first raised last August and that the case would be shelved.The next month they were named arguido's.
It would have been huge news on TV and all newspapers would be running the story, and it's only the DM, who have printed it.
xx

eureka said...

Hi all, Let's not forget that if the forensic evidence analysed by the British FSS shows that hair, and body fluids etc. is from a corpse, and the DNA is the child's, then in effect the British and Portuguese police have evidence of the child's "body". There may be a question of where the remains are but there can be no doubt that the existence of a body can be proven. Make the connection between a suspect and a dead body by any means and the police can ask him/her how she died. Even if they refuse to answer, if the evidence puts them in the vicinity of the body and they have opportunity, then a jury can convict, I believe, on several very serious criminal offences.

felicity said...

Evening all It is now 21.12 and I am just going through all your posts and will try and answer some of them. I have listened to the video of Kate and Gerry from June - Thanks Dolores
http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html

I thought it was interesting that he said no they did not see anyone suspicious but are reliant on others coming forward maybe even from a few weeks before - bearing in mind this was back in June..then suddenly we get this Granny Cooper..who lives in Notts .. neighbouring County to Leics. Kate was doing that horrible mouth slapping sound again whenever asked an awkward question and Gerry promptly chimes in...They refused to answer question about how could a predator get into the apartment - saying that was getting into the specifics of a criminal case that may later form part of a court case! How true Gerry..

There was another video next to it in September with a Portuguese legal expert explaining the police do not make people arguidos unless they have evidence to do so but it could still be months off following further investigation before they get charged.

Will work through some more! but what a great debate again! My computer just froze for about 5 minutes!

Luv Viv x

Dylan said...

Thank you dolores for the faith you have in my thoughts! They are only thoughts, though as i'm not a qualified psycho-anything!

Anon, (not L3 anon) if you have been reading all of our comments from today then that puts you as a very uncaring character. Bursting in and shouting "yippee" - is that your idea of grown-up speech? I would keep an eye on your teddies if i were you as you'll be throwing them out of your cot when the DM story is found to be incorrect.
So, you are pleased that they may be innocent and cleared soon, are you? This makes you pleased also that the alternatives of what happened to maddie are much more savoury, are they. Ecstatic about that are you? I would only be as pleased as you are if she came back alive and well tomorrow.
Oh, sorry, it must be your bedtime now so you won't be reading this today anyway.

Eureka, you are right. I just don't believe they would throw the case out now. They will find if they do they will have to face a hell of a lot of answers as to the evidence they have. It would be outrageous to do so with so many questions left unanswered. As for the Mcs claiming they have been framed, that's rubbish. I've said before, Murat is a far easier, less controversial person to set up as the culprit.

It's also been said on 3A i read, that the letters are on their way again very soon and through the proper channels this time. This is not the actions of a judiciary that is about to clear the prime suspects. Maybe this is all being rumoured to detract from what they do know and to lull all parties into a false sense of security.

We shall see....

Luv Dyl x

Dylan said...

PS anonentity,

Us "armchair bullies" have signed the Independent petition to free an innocent man from a death sentence. The pressure put on the powers that be in Afghanistan by such things as this petition, has almost saved this poor man from certain death. armchair? depends on how you define proactive. Bullies? If it ensures an humanitarian end then i'm proud of being a "bully".

Dylan said...

PS anonentity,

Us "armchair bullies" have signed the Independent petition to free an innocent man from a death sentence. The pressure put on the powers that be in Afghanistan by such things as this petition, has almost saved this poor man from certain death. armchair? depends on how you define proactive. Bullies? If it ensures an humanitarian end then i'm proud of being a "bully".

Irina said...

Good evening everyone.
Sorry for late posting.
I am still quite optimistic about outcome.
First of all the investigation is almost complete and after it's many reviews no doubt is left in PJ's or anyone else of us, who willing to listen, no doubt is left that poor child is dead and parents caused her death. There is strong evidence to it, and McCanns and their friends are being pursued based up on this evidence.

The problem in this case of course is political interference and big business interference that tries to derail investigation and prevent justice to be served.
All this because the structure of "democracy" under the new labor allows and supports corruption.

This problem is so obvious to everyone in UK and outside, and of course to Portuguese authorities.
Portuguese tried to follow the rules and proceed with enquires through normal channels. They faced resistance.
Now they are trying another method, which includes public support and upheaval in both countries. For that they are proceeding with request in a way as UK demanded and at the same time provoking public support through statements, and at the same time try to confuse McCanns and create false sense of hope for them, so that their attention will be distracted from the letters.

I do not believe for a moment that Portuguese will stop McCanns prosecution until it is possible.

But if UK Gov will stop it, I am sure we will know the truth, because PJ will not keep silence and we all know now how to translate from Portuguese and were to find information.

Irina said...

Hello Dylan,
While I have been typing you send the post with the same idea: "Maybe this is all being rumored to detract from what they do know and to lull all parties into a false sense of security."
I think that as well. If someone celebrates the clearance of parents they are out of touch with reality. Keep them that way and case will progress faster.

Irina said...

Docmac, if you will have chance to read this, I would like to say that I envy you having that venture to the interior.
Just reading Laurens Van Der Post and think that you must have the similar experience. Africa is one continent I have not been to, but would live to not just visit, but spend some time exploring.

felicity said...

Hiya Dyl

Doc and I can cope with their attention - in fact it gladdens me they are so concerned about us. At least they are under no illusions about how much trouble the McCanns are in. I agree it is quite repulsive the McCanns and their cohorts feel buoyed whenever there is supposed "news" of Madeleine having been raped and murdered. Again ..what normal parent? Purely buoyed by the prospect of some positive spin for the gruesome twosome ..no doubts about that. This is what they actually are thrilled about persuading the public some paedo got Maddie - it does not get much sicker for so called "parents".

Dolores - Neither Doc nor I get big-headed about it. We are knowledgeable in our own fields but what makes this blog great and a powerful voice for Madeleine is you all being here. This is a place for sharing information and every single poster offers us the benefit of their own views and knowledge - you are all a voice for Madeleine with your own unique voice and insight. If you were not here, I would just be doing what Rosie has tried to suggest - talking to myself and there would be no "forum". So once again thank you all so much for proving her so wrong! In the early days back in December it was a bit lonely on here sometimes, waiting for a post, but not any more!

Irina - I will try and put some more links on the side of the page but all the old threads are available if you click on the little black arrow e.g. next to 2007 and many are in there.

Dolores - It is very chilling that Kate just does that horrible mouth slapping when asked to describe Madeleine - how many moms would not be able to spontaneously just speal away about their little precious - her response is ominous and frightening. I do not think she bonded with Madeleine and by her behaviour demonstates she has so much to hide - she wants to avoid the subject of Madeleine and Gerry, a more accomplished liar (or so he believes) has to take over, every time.

Lizzie - the Daily Mail is ultra pro-McCann and this is exactly the same spin Rosie (is she Claris or does she get her instructions from him - why don’t the Daily Express ever ban her or delete her offensive posts????) has been giving Ribeiro's remarks! 24 Horas is a paper back by right wing Americans, who again, have been Pro-McCann. I really would not take any notice of this spin.


Linsey - welcome to the forum - glad Dolores found your photo!

Dilly - I agree Kate is nervous and seeking to conceal, take comfort from having Cuddlecat to mess with…being distracted or wanting to be away from the subject in hand a bit like chewing your pen when you don’t want to write but know that you should… I agree Gerry is able to compartmentalise issues, act in a practical way and feels he is resolving their situation by tackling individual issues and keeping busy. It is his way of coping and goes with his personality style - he would never get bogged down with emotional or abstract issues. He only sees in black or white - there are no shades of grey. Kate's vision is multi-dimensional and overwhelming to her - she cannot put things into neat boxes and tick them off..she is drowning. It was very unwise of her mother to mention that she sees Madeleine come to her at night - this is indicative of severe mental illness. This just would not happen to Gerry - he is always able to distract himself and remain sane and does not have the capacity for being emotional which is some more normal respects is helpful e.g. in terms of his job. Some people he knows, will die. He can put this into a box that says leave it and move on to those he can do something about. He has an insatiable capacity for moving on and being very industrious where he thinks it is worth the effort - hence the startling and unceasing campaign - it all emanates from him. The dam story IMO is just another of his well orchestrated and complex constructions to defend them at all costs. He lacks the capacity to feel the revulsion that others do. He only sees it in terms of his pursuing his goal, a horse with blinkers on endlessly moving forward - not aware of what is at the side or behind.. blinkered by his lack of insight. He once said something like this didn’t he - there was this tunnel that opened out and at the end there was bright light - this is where he wants to be - rich famous and out of trouble - he is his own tragedy.


Viv x

SueB said...

Hi Viv

Have a headline...

Parents of Madeleine continue suspicion for the police of Portugal


LISBON, 6 Fev 2008 (AFP) - The parents of the small English one Madeleine McCann, missing person in Portugal in May,
conserve until further notice the status of "suspicion" by the polices Portuguese, affirmed in this Wednesday the public prosecutor's office.

http://noticias.uol.com.br/ultnot/afp/2008/02/06/ult34u198700.jhtm

22.30pm

felicity said...

Hiya Sue

Will be right on to that and come back.

Thanks
Viv x

isis said...

any room for a DE refugee who is sick of the sycophantis,backslapping,tagteam antics of the ring of rosies.

dolores said...

Dear Viv, I really really hope you were not offended by me saying (I did not want you to get a big head) it was actually said in jest
with the praise I gave you both.
I am truly sorry if you thought I was serious. I have never thought of you or Docmac in that way,I have nothing but respect for both of you.

xxxx

Irina said...

Hello Isis,
Certainly you are welcome here! There are many of us seeking refuge from DE here. Just looked again at it- sad picture: the fall of the empire.
Well, I am certainly waiting for the better news in the future. In a mean time soap opera continues.
Poor Madeleine.

isis said...

the thing that really sticks with me is jane tanner saying she was back in app5b next door to the mc canns at tennish. How did she not hear kate screaming upon finding madeleine gone? she was next door. She maintains she heard nothing until a female member of the group told her that madeleine was missing.

hope4truth (at least about the time) said...

Hello

Just checking to see what time it is on here when I post as Dolores posted at 2.38 and it is now 22.54 so where in the world is it 2.38???

isis said...

hi irina! Greetings from dublin. Nothing to debate on there. just the usual claptrap.

Dolores said...

Hello Isis
Welcome to our room, so nice to see you here.It is an awful place now,I am amazed they get away with the insults,without getting banned and it's getting worse.

I was reading some posts earlier on there,and I was in stitches at RP'S
she/he, said It's a straight road from PDL to Tarifa which only takes 30 minutes, where the ferry can be caught to Tangiers.
Crusader tore into her and was laughing at her ignorance.She hates to be proved wrong.She finally had to admit she knew nothing about geography.

xx

hope4truth said...

Ah there are people here...

Not much news is there been reading the DX and really cant be bothered to argue...

I wonder how JT never heard the screaming next door as well it is all very strange.

One of the things that gets me is why Kate has stayed so close to all the others (meetings lunch) if my child had gone missing (really missing) then I would suspect the people I was with especialy if one of them was away from the table for 45 minutes.

I trust my friends with my life but if my child was missing I would suspect everyone...

22.59

felicity said...

Hiya Isis - too right mate we can fit you in. Check out the quality of the posts on here tonight - what a fantastic bunch! Reading the DE is like a visit to la la land. I have never seen such mind numbing crap in all my entire..Well my kids were writing better stuff aged 7!

Dolores - you lovely - I do get bigheaded given some of the lovely stuff people write to me on here LOL I most certainly did not take offence at your remark so please do not be worrying about that! To be honest I think some of my posters write much better stuff than me and am so grateful you are all here - and do rely on you to keep me informed ! It is a pleasure to read you:-)))

I see we did have an offensive little visitor earlier but you all dealt with him very nicely :-))))))

HOW ABOUT SOME MORE POSITIVE SPIN FOLKS - HERE IS THE ARTICLE SUE DIRECTED ME TO: THEIR ARGUIDO STATUS REMAINS!!!

06/02/2008 - 17h08
Parents of Madeleine remain suspects to the police in Portugal

LISBON, February 6, 2008 (AFP) - The parents of the small English Madeleine McCann, disappeared in Portugal in May, until further notice retain the status of "suspects" by the Portuguese police, said here Wednesday the promotoria.

On Sunday, the director of the Portuguese judicial police, Alipio Ribeiro, acknowledged "some haste" on charges of Kate and Gerry McCann, leading to the spokesman for the couple, Clarance Mitchell, asking that the authorities withdraw the status of suspected " soon as possible. "

"The promotoria has no comment on the statement by the national director of the judicial police, the legal situation of parents of the missing girl will be examined at an opportune time," said on Tuesday AFP Ana Lima, promotoria.

Statements of Ribeiro created controversy in Portugal and ill-being in the police.

The chairman of the union's judiciary, Antonio Cluny, considered "extremely worrying" that it is thus an "ongoing investigations".

After the disappearance of Maddie in Praia da Luz (south of Portugal) three people were involved in justice: parents and a Briton who lives in Portugal, Robert Murat.

The parents of Madeleine have done a great international campaign to find his daughter and they be convinced that it was seqüestrada.


Tell you what I am just going to get the Daily Mail article and post it up - then we can compare and contrast. Who was that little weasel on here who believes this tripe?

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Madeleine police 'to clear McCanns but case will be shelved'
Last updated at 20:29pm on 6th February 2008

Comments (54)

Police investigating Madeleine McCann's disappearance are preparing to shelve the case without bringing charges against her parents, it was claimed yesterday.

Portugal's most senior policeman is set to "drop" the nine-month case without accusing any of the named suspects or solving the mystery surrounding Madeleine's disappearance, it was reported.

Sources said comments by Alipio Ribeiro, the head of the Policia Judiciaria, showed he was preparing an "exit strategy" to allow the investigation to be filed.

Scroll down for more ...


Kate and Gerry McCann could soon have their suspect status lifted as police plan to give up on the case

He caused uproar last weekend when he said his officers had rushed the decision to name Kate and Gerry McCann as suspects, and that they should have re-evaluated the evidence against the couple first.

Critics accused him of having "killed" the investigation and he later apologised privately to the detectives leading the high-profile inquiry.

But yesterday senior officers said they believed he could have been testing public opinion in Portugal, to see if the time was right to shelve the case, which has been dogged with problems.

One high-ranking official told the Portuguese newspaper Diario de Noticias: "He has dropped the case."

Scroll down for more ...


Madeleine may never be found and the case may never be solved, it has been claimed

The newspaper reported: "In admitting there was haste in making the McCanns arguidos, the national director is preparing public opinion for the possibility of no charges being brought, because of a lack of evidence."

Filing the case would be an embarrassing public climbdown for Mr Ribeiro, who sent his most trusted deputy Paulo Rebelo to take control of the investigation in November.

But police have failed to find conclusive forensic evidence or any compelling witness statements to support their theory that Madeleine died in her parents' holiday apartment in Praia da Luz and that the couple then hid her body and faked her abduction.

The McCanns' legal team, which includes some of Britain and Portugal's most influential lawyers, has seized on Mr Ribeiro's comments and has repeated calls for the couple to be cleared as suspects.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said they wanted the Attorney General in Lisbon to review the case within days.

But under Portuguese law the case could be filed with them remaining as named arguidos, and without being formally cleared they would still have to live under the cloud of suspicion.

Mr Mitchell said: "We don't want the case to be archived in any way. We still believe Madeleine could be alive, so the police must keep an operational inquiry going, looking for a missing person.

"Of course we want Gerry and Kate to be cleared as suspects, but we do not want the police to stop looking for Madeleine.

"We will never give up the search for her."

It is not the first time Mr Ribeiro has suggested that the case could go unsolved.

In November he said: "I don't know if there will be arrests in the Madeleine case."

He has repeatedly denied claims that he is under pressure from Britain to drop the case against the McCanns, both 39-year-old doctors from Rothley, Leicestershire.

The idea of filing the case was first raised by Portuguese police last August - two weeks before the couple were named as formal suspects.

The investigation's then spokesman, Olegario Sousa, said: "Naturally if we do not have any definite culprit or culprits, the case will be sent to the archive. "If at any time new and important facts come to light, the investigation could be re-opened."

The McCanns have always denied any involvement in their daughter's disappearance, as has the other named suspect in the case, British expat Robert Murat.

It is not clear whether his arguido status would be affected if the case was to be shelved.

The property consultant, 34, has repeatedly asked to be cleared.

Meanwhile the board of directors of the £1.2million Find Madeleine fund met yesterday in Leicester.

They discussed the fund's finances but did not consider whether to renew the £50,000-a-month contract of the private detective agency Metodo 3 when it expires next month.

The fund currently has £540,000 in its coffers and is expected to run dry by summer, Mr Mitchell said.

isis said...

thank you all for your welcome . some of you i know already as fellow refugees!! Hopefully tomorrow will bring us a little closer to the truth. The portugese judiciary are about as likely to shelve this case as R/P is to admit she has tunnel vision. Have to go to bed now as i look like a teabag !!!

dolores said...

Isis/Hope for truth
If you remember the waiter said only the men left the table that night,until Kate left at 10 so JT is lying again, something she is an expert at.
xx

felicity said...

Just how dare the DM Portugal's most senior policeman is set to drop the case! That is Ribeiro and he did not say anything about dropping the case.

"Sources" said he is preparing an exit strategy. Well funny that - this is exactly what Rosiepops was saying on the Daily Express forum. I am beginning to think she (who lists herself as he) IS CLARENCE MITCHEll. So many times with her she seems to have the spin first - that is very suspicious! She writes it on the DE and the exact same sentiments get spewed out in the Daily Mail a few days later. Funnily enough they are always complaining about this phrase "sources said" as in well who are the sources and where does it come from. Well Clarence we know who the source is and we know where it comes from and we know your thinking processes and we are sick of reading this tripe.

By the way did you see what Rosie wrote last night in the DE about Doc and I:

HI PEDRO, SASSY, TINKS,CHRISTABEL,ET AL
05.02.08, 9:59pm


Someone sent me a link to read on Viv's blog and docmac and her are planning to send me a wreath when I die from arthritis.

nice of them I thought.

Such pleasant people!

• Posted by: Rosiepops


Needless to say there is no such repulsive comment from Doc or me on here - I suffer from arthritis myself, know it is painful, and know it cannot kill you!

Oh and I wrote to the DE and complained - guess what - they ignored me! If they dont think we spot what is going on they better think again.

Viv x

Irina said...

Hi Isis,
I am in Clonmel down south, same weather though.

hope4truth said...

Dolores

Hi hope you are well...

Yes she does seem to let herself down when she opens her mouth..

This sad case will go down in history for all the spin. If they are inocent they sure are making themselves look bad...

I hope this does not mean that every time someone breaks the law in future they hire a spokesperson to tell the world black is white and the sun is green...

Poor little girl if she was abducted and she one day returns I wonder what her feelings will be towards her parents when she reads back about what allowed her to be taken...?

23.23

docmac said...

Good evening everyone,

I have really not had time to read all posts or any forums (from what I read here the DE forum has become almost redundant). I am back in Southern Africa, only one flight left. Sweat, sweat, chew nails. Am walking to Victoria Falls in the morning (by far the biggest, though not the highest, waterfall on our fragile planet). It's damn loud, even from the hotel.

Dolores, thanks for the kind words.

Irina, come to Africa sometime. It is exotic, wild and exciting. I don't even know where to tell you to begin your adventure. I have been to 22 countries on this continent and each one is so different. Don't forget Cape Town, though! By the way, I'm not sure if you are from Russia or another of the ex-USSR countries, but I would love to visit there too.

Isis, we never spoke much on the DE as I was not around that much after you joined. I hope you are welcomed here with open arms.

Viv, 36 hours to lions, elephant, giraffe, rhinos etc! Can't wait.

Sorry for the chatty post folks, I have not kept up with the case for a few days. Back to normal from Monday next.

Regards to all, I'm up early to see the Great White Thunder.

felicity said...

Hiya Isis my new refugee and hello again Hope and Dolores

I am struggling to understand how Clarence Mitchell can so confidently predict that by June £540,000 will be gone! How convenient - just in time for when the McCanns get charged - so the criminal courts cant seise the cash perhaps?

Run out of cigs so popping off for a bit - but that Daily Mail article is enough to make your blood boil! What unmitigated cr*p

Luv Viv

hope4truth said...

Docmac

It sounds fantastic have a great time (it is raining here and very cold I am not jealous at all) well maybe quite a lot...

Enjoy...

docmac said...

Sorry, Viv, am logging off and I saw this. WHAT??????!!!!!!!


HI PEDRO, SASSY, TINKS,CHRISTABEL,ET AL
05.02.08, 9:59pm


Someone sent me a link to read on Viv's blog and docmac and her are planning to send me a wreath when I die from arthritis.

nice of them I thought.

Such pleasant people!

• Posted by: Rosiepops

Friggin liar, as always. Nite x

hope4truth said...

Viv

Evening I read Rps post about the wreath (did not bother to try and find the post as did not think you would post something like that)...

I am off in a bit catch you another time really intresting thread...

RP = CM bang goes the image I had of her then LOL

dolores said...

Viv
They are so blatently obvious, are'nt they.As long as they keep saying she is alive they can continue begging for money,they have hampeed this whole investigation,and want arguido status lifted but still want PJ to look for a live child, plus they are aware of the DNA evidence.
There is no way the have spent almost a million pounds looking for Maddie. How much has been sent in brown envelopes.It's probably tucked away safe in an offshore account.

isis said...

hi docmac. yes i did get a nice welcome, spoke to you late one night re the high incidence of drug abuse among anaesthetists. Im still thinking about the sedation angle but with over the counter meds.

docmac said...

Thanks Hope ;-)

I am not being nasty when I say I'm not missing the UK right now.

Really off, will try to read you all tomorrow evening. Sleep well all.

Irina said...

Hello Viv,
The DM article has some interesting points.

1. Mr. Mitchell said: "We don't want the case to be archived in any way. We still believe Madeleine could be alive, so the police must keep an operational inquiry going, looking for a missing person."

This is the problem. Because lets believe that many in team McCann do think they are innocent - they would not allow to shelf the case.
I bet McCanns dream of shelving it, but they convinced their supporters that Madeleine was abducted and so investigation should go on. Eventually it will lead back to them! Go Mitchell, no shelving!

2. " The investigation's then spokesman, Olegario Sousa, said: "Naturally if we do not have any definite culprit or culprits, the case will be sent to the archive.”If at any time new and important facts come to light, the investigation could be re-opened."

Shelving the case and reopening it later, during the different Gov could be the solution in case if UK Gov completely sabotages the case.

dolores said...

Hi to all,
Docmac I love hearing of your journey,have a wonderful day tomorrow.G/night sleep well

I was convinced 2 days ago RP was CM, To much inside info was coming out.You could spot it a mile off.

Irina said...

Docmac, if you still here,
You are welcome to my country! I am from Moscow and it is beauty, as the whole Russia. A lot of wilderness, vast beautiful places.
Moscow is very welcoming place to be.
I have read a lot about Africa and thought to start from the very south. Need to wait some years, till my daughter is old enough to be left alone or taken to the jungles.

felicity said...

Oh no! Just as I pop off for a bit in pops Doc and now I missed him!

Doc I thought you would be a little upset at Rosie's attempt to make us look as nasty as her!

Walking to the Great White Thunder tomorrow - wow! That would certainly blow me away - what an awesome sight and sound - how truly fabulous - you are certainly having a lovely mini break.

How I would love to visit Africa - a land of so many different landscapes, climates and cultures - maybe one day! I dont reckon I will be able to catch up with you though ~Doc - how long would it take me to do 22 countries and what would that cost - bit too old for backpacking or motorcycling! I dont blame you for not missing the UK - freezing rain and some of the people - if the minority of the thugs who write all that rubhish on the DE are anything to go by. But of course, there are many lovely ones too! When the spring comes I will see how beautiful it can be here again -cant wait for those beautiful fresh lime green leaves to unfurl on trees that look completely dead - that has always fascinated me!

Isis - that is an interesting point about drug abuse among anaesthitists (bet I spelt that wrong!). Funny how Kate trained to do that but never practised..I think alcohol is her favourite drug and it is not helping her depression one bit!

Irina - Russia - another vast place full of wild beauty and historic culture - I am seriously getting to yearn to start travelling a bit more!

What a lovely cosmopolitan place this is.

Luv to you all and do hope I can catch you tomorrow Doc!¬

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Doc - blow all those wonderful animals a big kiss from me :-)

I will be there in spirit!

Enjoy seeing some of our wonderful cousins doing what comes naturally in their beautiful natural environ.

Luv Viv

felicity said...

Good News from the Lovely Lady Alsabella on the Daily Express:

LIZZY
07.02.08, 2:55am

Latest news: it is confirmed that the rogatory letters were resent on friday via the Attorney General's Office to the Home Office. They had previously been sent via Eurojust, but the Home Office did not accept them, saying this was not the proper diplomatic channel to send them.

• Posted by: alsabelIa

felicity said...

Who is this lady who used to come on asking people for a fight but seems to have got a personality transplant and now tries to be pleasant - Kate McCann!!! - rather a personally worded post!
Viv x

ALSABELLA
07.02.08, 12:07am

What is the answer?

Should we capitulate, even, when we are innocent?

We had no involvement in our daughters disappearance.

Got it?

• Posted by: chinadoll

felicity said...

I see big sis is back.

So all those horrible bruises on Kate and the cut above her eye were just "a minor injury"... done by Gerry. This domestic violence thing really does bother them - I wonder why!!
HI FOLKS
06.02.08, 8:40pm

Hope you are all well.
Just been looking at back posts.
Re bruises on Kate.................at any given time I will find some sort of bruise/s on my own body.
Half the time I don't even know how I got the bruise.
Only last week my sister pointed out a yellow tinge under my right eye. I had not even noticed it was there.
I had bumped myself against an open cupboard the week before.
This happens to us ALL. Perfectly normal to everyone............except some, who want to add juice to the sad story of a lost little girl.
It seems that the McCanns cannot even be normal enough to bump into anything, and cause themselves a minor injury.

• Posted by: oldhippy

felicity said...

As Alsabella ridicules R's latest barmy theory out comes the vicious school maam again..temper, temper dear you will never cope with Alsabella...not to mention her superior geography! Then we get the poor little me..some victim!

WELL ALSABELLA
06.02.08, 7:49pm


I see what you have done, you have completely not read my post properly, no go to the back of the class and write down a hundred times.

I must read the posts before I jump in and try to ridicule people.

I said from Portugal to Tarifa, NOT gran Canaria to Tarifa and even though my geography is not very good, I do know that Gran Canaria is an island.

I won't hold my breath waiting for an apology.


• Posted by: Rosiepops

docmac said...

Oh WOW, WOW, WOW

Book your tickets to see the Great White Thunder (or The Smoke That Thunders, if you prefer). More than a mile wide, 100+ metre drop, half a million cubic metres of water per minute. Unbelievable.

David Livingstone named the falls after the Queen and said at the time “On sights as beautiful as this, Angels in their flight must have gazed”. He was fuckin' right! Please excuse my Zambian ;-).

I have to go and present a paper soon, but have booked an afternoon flight over the falls for this afternoon, despite my fear of flying.

Viv, that Rosiepops needs help. She is an obnoxious bully and I can not understand why the merry band hang on to this reprobate's every word.

Irina I will visit one day. I want to go to St Petersburg too.

Have a great day all.

SueB said...

The rogatory letters with requests for interrogation of the friends of McCann have finally made it to England, police source said to the CM. The letters that were returned to the Attorney General's Office, giving rise to a controversy with the services of British justice and Eurojust, only now have followed again. The PJ has waited for the re-interviews for more than two months.

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=276711&idselect=10&idCanal=10&p=200

9.18am

Dylan said...

Hi all,

What a great forum it was yesterday/last night. I meant to pop in and say nite nite but then got diverted by Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares - he so does make laugh! He actually called one customer an "old bag"!! I wish we could set him on RP!

I cannot believe what she said doc and viv had said. Who does she think she is? That was a disgusting lie but fortunately those of us who "know" viv and doc know that they would never resort to such low-life narrative.

Isis
It's great to see you here. Big fan of yours on de. Their loss is our gain! btw, I love, love, love the Emerald Isle. Have been to all of the 6 counties, Cork & Kerry and hope to visit Dublin some day too. 4 generations ago, my folks lived in Dublin but we don't know whether they moved there from England or were natives. I spent a beautiful, peaceful week in Valentia just walking and relaxing. I took the ferry to the mainland and discovered the best fish restaurant in the world!! Landing at Kerry airport was funny though, it looks as though you are landing in a field. (docmac close your ears!)

Delores and everyone else, thanks for all of the news. I take it we can dispel the DM myth as rubbish!
And we all know that Rosiepops doesn't "do" geography don't we - afterall, "Where the Pacific meets the Med....." ;)

Docmac, really jealous now!It sounds wondeful! Two places i would dearly love to visit: Africa (north or south, either would do!) and the Himalayas. Good to have you back tho and i trust you are on terra firma?

Gtg now. Hope we have some more news today. Glad Alsabella has put pay to DMs rubbish of yesterday.

Dyl x

Dylan said...

Oh Irina,
I almost forgot - greetings to Russia! I tried to learn Russian at school but found it too difficult alongside having to learn the alphabet too! Any easy phrases you can teach me?

Dyl x

isis said...

morning all, dylan ,im positivly blushing at your most complimentry post!! I love the west coast as it is untamed and very humbling to see the might of an ocean and the effect it has on the landscape. You feel quite insignificant in the face of it. Morning irina, weather here in the capital ..gruesome. Fab post on thr new de rticle this am from big l ,you should all have a look, just scroll past the other sycophantic drivel . If the arguido status is lifted does this not laeve the mc canns in a more vunerable position re questioning, would they then be obliged to answer ALL questions as wittnesses? This is interesting in veiw of the rogatory letters which have been sent.

Irina said...

Good morning all.
Dylan, Dobroye utro!
I have 2 home countries Russia and Ireland, where I am leaving now. Both are lovely.

I wonder is it Home Office where letters are coming now. Because before Home Office was saying that it is the matter for Foreign Affairs and Commonwealth Office (in reply to my e-mail).

I think I will send e-mail again.

Will be back tonight.

Irina said...

Forgot to mention.
There have been a suggestion that Rosepops is Clarence. I will look at it again, but it seems to me she is more like Philomena.
Funny about Chinadoll - if she meant it, she must be K and psychotic.

lizzy said...

Hi Alsabella,
Have just seen your post re the letters, thank you for that, lets hope they are accepted this time.Can't see why they weren't accepted last time when sent by Eurojust, maybe they are playing for time.I am keeping my fingers crossed they will be accepted and the questioning take place asap, we will see...lizzy 12.31pm

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
I think the DE is getting worse, last night the abuse from a poster called barabus who was obviously Muse was unbelievable, don't know why anybody speaks to people whose agenda is so clearly to upset people, and maybe close the forum.These bullies clearly have a problem, wouldn't surprise me if they are not Team Mccann. As they seem quite unstable. Lizzy 12.37pm

Dylan said...

Anonentity,

It was posted in irony and not as an intent!

You need to get help and fast. You are rude, abusive, descriminately nasty and malignant. I would imagine that you are the type of person that would join the KKK if it still existed at a place near you.
This site is only for those of us that enjoy our right to freedom of speech in grown-up world and sometimes that entails irony, sarcasm and a bloody good laugh at the stupidity of some of the DE posters who, lets face it, put themselves up for it in the first place.

There is no room for your kind on this forum and none of us care what you think about Viv and doc's honesty.

I'm not prepared to engage or be goaded by you from now on and i suspect that you will be ignored by the rest of us too.

Dylan said...

Irina,

Dobroye utro - thanks! Does that mean "goodmorning all? How would i say good morning to you? - I shall be keeping my own dictionary of words from you!

Isis, yes it is a very beautiful part of the country. I loved the smell of peat fires in the evenings and the diversity of the landscape - ragged cliffs, ancient monasteries (think it wss called the Skelligs) where monks lived unbelievably excluded for years. The original academics! The painted houses....I could go on and on! I also enjoyed some time on the Dingle Peninsula and many an evening merrymaking to the sound of folk music...ahhh, bliss!

Lizzy, maybe babarus is the barbaric anonentity that has wormed his wretched way onto this blog?!

dyl x

isis said...

ha ha viv!! are you multi tasking ? you are being accused of being a poster under a different name on the DE website. I see the sun has an article on someone who has an unofficial? website on madeleine running, apparently they have been touting for money. Hmm sounds familiar.

felicity said...

Hi All

Dont worry about sick little Muse/Assasin et al she will get fed up of posting on here and having her posts removed. I agree she was also posting as Barabus on the Daily Express last night. They banned her 18 times - sooner or later she will get the message no one wants her!

I wonder how Rosiepops got sent a link from this sicko? God they must email each other!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Isis and Littlegreycell

hubble bubble toil and trouble
Published: Thursday February 7,2008 by Meyhico_Pedro
Hi Viv... Littlegreycell.

Shouldn't there be three of ya?

===============

Is this what you mean? So now I am littlegreycell - I think LGC was posting before I was on the DE but it amusing the fascination with me continues and I am quite flattered to be accused of being LGC because she is one seriously bright lady - now if they thought I was Muse - that would be very insulting....

What you do you reckon LGC?

Are we giving them a dose of the paras or what LOLOLLLL.

Viv the real one :-)x

isis said...

well viv,the only, dont see why they should be too bothered by tjis as there seems to some cloning going on their side too. Think another poster recently left and i think has resurrected,excuse the pun as a mexican ??? I think tis is far from over and hope that these letters arrive and we can see requestioning taking place soon.

felicity said...

Hiya Isis

Thanks for referring me to the Sun article. I think this bloke is actually anti McCann - he has all sorts of links pointing to all the adverse evidence against them - including details of Mrs Fenn apparently commenting how loud, aggressive, out of control Kate was with the children and Madeleine crying for her daddy. Like Muse he does ask for donations and this is absolutely dreadful. Why should these people be seeking to make money out of little Madeleine? Glad to note neither of them have been given any money by the public.

I have read the sick comments of Pedro and they seem entirely consonant with Lazarus who I know got banned. Rosie does herself no favours at all by happily conversing with these people including Barabus last night - but I suppose she is desperate for someone to agree with her bizarre theories.

I suppose there is going to be all of this until we get some proper news that the rogatory letters have arrived and the questioning can commence. Let us hope it is not too long before the Portuguese officers make their fifth visit to the UK for this. I read last night someone commenting on just how much the McCanns are costing Portuguese and British tax payers - it is high time they started to be a bit more co-operative rather than continuing to demand the PJ continune to look for a live child that they know is dead, very sadly and put all of this rubbish in the press, deliberately hindering the investigation of them. It is quite sickening.

Viv x

Dylan said...

Goodness me viv, you've got your nighty on in the attic again haven't you??;))) tut, tut!

I suppose it's no less than flattery to accuse you of being such a master of so many disguises!

All very amusing. The pros must be vv paranoid!

Incidently, Alsabella has said on DE that new results are back from FSS. Blood in apartment and blood in hire car is definately poor little maddie's. I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned on here and i can't scroll back now to see - apologies if it's already been mentioned. New poster on DE called newton. Seems to be fair and reasonable and not allowing him/herself to be goaded at all.

Dyl x

felicity said...

Hiya Dyl

Well I actually struggle to cope with this site and wish I could manage to do everything they accuse me of! I would be super-human so in a way yes, they really flatter me!

ROFLMAO at your suggestion they are vv paranoid!Just put the i in!

I am pleased the forensic results are once again confirmed but never doubted their validity in the first place. The PJ would never accuse two British doctors publically as they did unless they were pretty damn sure of what they accused them of. They knew the McCanns were guilty but the investigation against them was stalling for lack of sufficient evidence to actually convict them until the British officers came over with the sniffer dogs and the FSS provided the forensic results. Then it was all systems go against them. This is what appals me so much about the foul criticisms of the PJ - it was our own British officers that said "ohe yes you are right about these two"!! There is no way on earth we, the British, would allocate a highly trained and expensive Detective Superintendent and a team of 30 British officers if there was no reason to suspect the McCanns! They can keep coming up with their farcical spin in the papers about Mr Ribeiro etc - it does not change the reality of their situation as prime suspects for the death and disposal of their beautiful little girl. They are criminals, at the heart of a very serious and very expensive criminal investigation by the British and Portuguese against them. Justice will be done!

Luv Viv x

isis said...

hi dylan,where did you read that , just been on the DE site and didnt see anything. Then again its bloody hard to see anything there with that sombrero jumping at you! Is there a new thread. The pro leader is conspicuous by her absence today ?

felicity said...

Hiya Isis

There is a new thread:

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/34134

Rosiepops is getting increasingly conspicuous by her absence. Could that be because every time she /he crawls out from under that stone she gets ridiculed for the absurd rubbish that she writes.

Speaking of which I see huge with the scientific background (sickofconspiracies on here) continues to trot out the innocent little scenarios. He misses the point completely. If two British doctors were in the habit of popping around the pub leaving three under fours on their own, with the door open, without bothering to make sure they were safe - what would it say about them as parents? It would say they are the sort of parents who are abusive and uncaring - exposing their children to serious risk of harm. Not only can they not bother to get a reputable babysitter, they even leave the door open. Some excuse this is. In short they would be exactly the sort of parents that neighbours report to the Social Services and have action taken against them to protect the children. The fundamental problem with this lot is they do not accept or understand that children have the right to be safe and protected by their parents, not left alone with the door open - with no kind mom and dad to care for them when they wake up crying. Their heartless attitude is repugnant. We are not talking about a hard up mom leaving her kids to go and work. She would be entitled to some compassion. We are talking about a wealthy couple who care so little about their kids they just do not bother to protect them from harm and upset. They can spend any amount of money on themselves but their children do not even get the right to be safe whilst they are off getting drunk with their mates. If I hear these excuses one more time - there is no excuse! When are they going to realise there is nothing that can be said to justify the dreadful behaviour of the gruesome twosome and they did far more than neglect. They are abusive, uncaring, selfish and dangerous to be in charge of children. Totally unfit.



ZODIAC
07.02.08, 4:27pm

As always its a question of where to draw the line.

Lets talk in general terms

Lets assume Mr and Mrs Smith live in a sleepy village and they go off to the village pub together 100 yds from home leaving their 3 children asleep in bed. During the hour that they are in the pub, someone enters their property (it was left unlocked, crime being almost unheard of in the village) and takes their eldest child (aged 3).

Clearly, the children were neglected. Mr and Mrs Smith have an otherwise clean criminal record and are respected members of the community. What are the choices?

1. Send Mr and Mrs Smith to prison for criminal neglect.
Consequences: Negative - careers destroyed, children taken into care and fostered (possibly split up)
Positive - lynch mob are kept happy

2. Recognise the trauma the parents have been through, assess the likelihood of re-offence, decide there is no way they would do it again - out of compassion decide not to send them to prison.
Consequences: positive - other children able to stay with natural parents, characters of parents damaged very badly, but at least they have the opportunity to rebuild their lives.
negative - lynch mob frothing at the mouth.

• Posted by: U2

LittleGreyCell said...

16.45

Hello Viv,

Just catching up with today's postings and saw the one above about us being one and the same person!

Who posted that, then, sis? Do I get full working use of George in my spare time? ;)

(Not been around much this week
'cos have had a deadline to meet, but am keeping tabs on my doppelgangers!)

Keep up the great work, Twinny! (Shame I'm not called Susannah, then we could be Twinny and ....)

X LGC

Irina said...

Dylan,
Dobroye utro = Goog morning

Privet = Hi

Zdravstvui = hello

Do svidanya = good bye

Talk to you later.

isis said...

found an interesting link on the 3 a website. scroll down the page and watch the 2 relevant videos. www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html on watching the first video i know now why the portugese authorities feel they were too hasty in making these 2 arguida.

felicity said...

Hiya LGC

Now careful dear - you know how sisters can fight! Keep your hands of my gorgeous George or else!

It actually gets more bizarre by the minute - one of my other sisters has just emailed me with a post from the scientic one with a huge arse who is sick of conspiracies. I recall they had a whole weekend's fun of abusing me and attacking her on the delightful Daily Express but thought they had actually given up on this idea when she posted an email from the Daily Express confirming they knew she was not me and they were monitoring the harassment of her, but no, they start again! What a seriously sick bunch they are! This person denies condoning leaving children alone, but as above, frequently does so..how perverted!

Susannab - gosh are we that Sloney, slim and well- groomed!!

Viv x
ONACLEARFELICITY
07.02.08, 3:11pm
The apartment wasn't 120 yards away, it was the other side of a swimming pool away (more like 50m). Yes, it was 120 yards away by foot, but this is an important distinction. My perception is that the McCanns and their friends FELT close to their apartment. Look out of your window and look at something 50m away - it will look much closer than it would in a photo or on tv. The problem was that the perception gave them a false sense of security. The actual distance, as you say is much further. An abductor, who watched their movements would have known that. The McCanns apartment was the closest to the road, the obvious target.

And no, I would not leave my children unattended like that - nor do I condone others doing it (before you ask)


• Posted by: U2

felicity said...

Just another thought about the above from huge ...when my little grandchildren come to my home in broad daylight with me their mom and dad all around caring for them I am simply paranoid about my garden pond and hold their hand and supervise them constantly when they go near it..but he talks about just leaving them alone a few metres from a big swimming pool. Shut up you horrible fat twit you really make me sick!

Viv x

ratonthebeam said...

Hi again Viv, an update....

24 Horas reports that the Rogatory Letters have been sent to England (again).

Clarence has blasted the www.mccannfiles.com site for asking for donations. He doesn't approve of this site because it might "repeat mistakes". Maybe he means mistakes such as "Kate Wants A Job In Child Care" or "Madeleine - The Movie", that the McCanns would rather forget.

The pros on the DX have spent two whole days getting in a lather about some comment about poor wee Madeleine being inappropriately dressed, that some of the anti's were supposed to have made. Of course no such comment exists - it sprang from a discussion about JonBenet Ramsay - but of course they have just made up their own version and have spent two whole days now clucking like affronted chickens about this supposed "insult" which is, of course, all in their heads. It really was quite entertaining to watch from the sidelines, but a bit too silly for joining in.

Lazarus aka Mehico Pedro is still being a prat and doesn't see any difference between the terms "hasty" and "TOO hasty". As you will know, Mr Ribiero said the first thing and not the second - which makes a HUGE difference - but not to the pros of course, who are probably doffing their M&S Champagne even as we speak, despite good advice to put it back in the fridge...

...and I reported Rosiepoops for that appalling "wreath" rubbish, but last I looked, it was still there.

It's a good thing that stupidity is not a terminal condition!

Gun hey fat choi to you all!

rat 17:30 GMT

felicity said...

Hiya Isis

We already looked at those videos and commented on them = I think on this thread.

www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html

I dont quite get their relevance to making them arguidos a bit too hastily.

My own view is that Sousa was correct. It would have been better to have continued to kid this couple along but I understand how difficult it was for the PJ once they had the forensic results and needed to put these to the McCanns. This involved making a direct allegation against them as suspects. It could have been a breach of their human rights as suspects to carry on the pretence of them just being witnesses in those circumstances. Once police want to actually accuse someone they have the right to remain silent and the right to a lawyer. IN UK we caution them and do this. In Portugal they make them arguidos and do this. It amounts to the same thing. Portugal and Britain are signatories to the European Convention on Human Rights and therefore both recognise and respect a criminal suspects righs to be treated fairly when they are being investigated.

Viv x

2345 said...

Felicity & Others -

An article which may interest you has just appeared on 3 A's site - posted by Dr Alox Comfort - 4.02 p.m. thread "This is Posted on Pro Site". An extremely lengthy lecture by, I imagine, Clarence himself !! I noticed the world "witch hunt" - favoured with DE minions.

Another commentator asked for the link, but the poster said "Pro site is closed to non members - I have a sock there". This will probably mean more to you than it does to me.

The content shows increased frustration with Forums - 3 A's included in critism and chastisement.

isis said...

hi viv, my take on it ,and apologies for the repeat link, was that if the mc canns had not been made arguida then they would have been obliged, if interveiwed as witnesses,to answer all questions put to them. Having seen your last post i see where you are coming from with the forensics.

2345 said...

U2.

FSS information given to Jane Hill for public release on 7 September confirms Madeleine was not abducted.

IF there had been an abductor he would have loaded a snatched vicitim straight into a vehicle parked next to the apartment; given that two roads passed it.

Paedophiles lure and remove their victims p.d.q. for obvious reasons.

2345 (JAB)

felicity said...

Hiya LGC

It never fails to amaze me that the pros invent an allegation against someone they perceive as a threat and then proceed to endlessly bleat and wail about it. Time and again on the DE you then see perplexed people saying well just where did they say that - this they never atempt to explain!

Thanks for reporting Rosie's nasty comment about me. I have reported literally hundreds of such posts now - when they are written by Muse they generally get removed - when they are written by Rosie they stay - we can form our own conclusions about the reasons for that!

As you say, there are so many of Clarence's failed publicity stunts he would like to forget, McCann the movie (no accident I am excluding Maddie here - she is not their concern!); Kate would like a job with a childcare charity, the McCanns set to sue PJ for £1M for failing to find Maddie - one of the most bizarre IMO, given they know exactly where she is but would like to make loads of money. Unfortunately, Clarrie, we do not forget! Neither do the millions of other people who you have convinced of the McCanns guilt! Back in September they still had quite a bit of support - till he got cracking! Now, even on the Daily Mail, 95% of comments are anti-McCann. Claris is only on his own side and how much dosh he can make out of the death of a beautiful little girl - to me he also has blood on his hands and will not be forgotten. I hope the public buoycott any money making book he chooses to write ! I certainly will! We will be able to read exactly what the McCanns did when we read the reports from the Crown Court and listen to them on the News - now spin that one Claris!

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya LGC

It never fails to amaze me that the pros invent an allegation against someone they perceive as a threat and then proceed to endlessly bleat and wail about it. Time and again on the DE you then see perplexed people saying well just where did they say that - this they never atempt to explain!

Thanks for reporting Rosie's nasty comment about me. I have reported literally hundreds of such posts now - when they are written by Muse they generally get removed - when they are written by Rosie they stay - we can form our own conclusions about the reasons for that!

As you say, there are so many of Clarence's failed publicity stunts he would like to forget, McCann the movie (no accident I am excluding Maddie here - she is not their concern!); Kate would like a job with a childcare charity, the McCanns set to sue PJ for £1M for failing to find Maddie - one of the most bizarre IMO, given they know exactly where she is but would like to make loads of money. Unfortunately, Clarrie, we do not forget! Neither do the millions of other people who you have convinced of the McCanns guilt! Back in September they still had quite a bit of support - till he got cracking! Now, even on the Daily Mail, 95% of comments are anti-McCann. Claris is only on his own side and how much dosh he can make out of the death of a beautiful little girl - to me he also has blood on his hands and will not be forgotten. I hope the public buoycott any money making book he chooses to write ! I certainly will! We will be able to read exactly what the McCanns did when we read the reports from the Crown Court and listen to them on the News - now spin that one Claris!

Viv x

Dylan said...

Zdravstvui Irina! (could you provide a phonetic pronunciation for this? I've tried saying it but am getting tongue tied) - oh and thanks. I've written them down. Is it very cold where you are?

Viv, lol vv was an accident but it does kinda work doesn't it? So U2 is still droning on and on making excuses. "horrible fat twit" - i love it! i always think insults are so much more apt when bad language is left out! I see you as a person who wouldn't harm a fly and it shows in your use of abuse! Quite sweet really!

Trying to excuse the Mcs when there is NO excuse for their behaviour, no matter what their loss is and how much we feel for them (and i do, even if she died as a result of their negligence - i would never wish that on anyone), is just disgusting. I won't let my daughter out on my street, you hold your g. childrens' hands near the pond, it's what any caring decent person would do. Olay to that i say! It's reassuring that so many of us haven't taken the Mcs as role models - ie, if decent respectable people can do it, why can't a minion like me? No,no,no,no, NO! It's our astonishment at what they did and how negletful they were which does just go to show that we are not a nation of lemmings blindly following an example just because it has come from some superior human being. If we were, we wouldn't have the morals and ethics that we have electively chosen as a social contract in our little corner of the world. It's great that the diversity of people who post on here and DE from abroad recognise that these people do not represent the average British / Irish citizen.

For those that stick up for the behaviour of the Mcs, i see them as morally letting down their nation. Many have said that if it had been a working class, single mum, on benefits (& i am/have been all of these), nipping down the local for a swift one with her pals, she would have been locked away by now.

So, we are not just defending justice for little maddie, we are defending what we believe to be morally correct and not have the gruesome twosome stand up as bastions of morality for our nation and the victims.

Honestly, it's like banging your head against a brick wall trying to explain to the excusers that we are not witch hunters!

Isis, did you find the comment from alsa? It is under a link from this morning's de forum. I think viv has posted it for you.

Dyl x

dolores said...

Hi Viv and all,
Clarry slams The McCann files,He said,
''This man did not seek our permission'' Most of it is ill-informed comment,unofficial sites like these, distract from the search for Madeleine'

It is all newspaper artilces on this website, in other words he is stating all newspapers are ill-informed. wow!!can he be sued for this?

Is this pink blob really serious that anyone who creates a website needs his permission? If this website is distracting you from the search I suggest Claris, that you stop reading and start looking then.
xx

Dylan said...

Well said dolores!

felicity said...

Hiya Dillie

Thanks for your kind remarks. I am quite sweet really - always on the side of the angels and guardians of angels. However, I confess that Rosie arousing some rather unpleasant feelings in me - but hey ho we are all human! I have now put up with 5 months of non-stop appalling abuse where she is the cheer leader and chief excuse writer for the McCanns so I guess I am entitled to intensely dislike her and what she stands for.

As ever you write a brilliant post and I love reading you:-)

Luv ~Viv x

dolores said...

Hi Dyl,
Thanks. He thinks he is God, I thought that was an illness associated with delusions of grandeur.He is an arrogant little dictactor who is getting above himself, I am sure he is in need of medical treatment.
xx

felicity said...

Hiya ~Dolores

WE see this arrogance time and again dont we. "They did not ask our permission to make money out of Madeleine, that is exclusively our prerogative - all proceeds should go to us".

It is the same remark he made on the radio about some woman who dared to offer Maddie lookalikes for Maddie the movie. Anyone who wants to cash in on Maddie's death - I spit on and he is and his equally arrogant string puller Gerry McCann can go shove their arrogance where the sun dont shine! There are plenty of arrogant psychopaths in UK jails and they can also make a few extra vacancies.

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

Dolores darling

your last post excellant amusing irony..in need of medical treatment indeed! The pink shirted one..the pink blob! LOLOOOOOOOL

You have a way with words, my friend!

By the way, does he keep getting his wife to wash it or does he have a whole wardrobe of them and when does he have time for a wife and children, I wonder!

The God, The Pink Shirted One, Let us Pray and kneel at his feet as we eagerly await another sermon from the mount...from his haughtiness

Luv Viv x

dolores said...

Hi Viv
I remember that the mother of the Maddie lookalike, finally submitted to his demands that all profits should go to the Msdeleine Fund,if her daughter was chosen.
He is the most detestable person along with his sidekick and a few on DE, I have ever know.
Iwish he would spin himself into outer space.
xxx

felicity said...

Dolores!

Spin himself into outer space - what a delightful amusing vision I am now having of him doing just that - go and have a chat with the man on the moon mate - maybe he will believe you~!!!

Vv :-)

dolores said...

Dear Viv
It helps to take the anger out of me to amuse myself at his expense.
It is an amusing vision, he could be the new man in the moon, firmly embedded......lolollol

xx

Dylan said...

Horrible fat twit & pink blob will be listed on my new list of inoffensive, offences!!I will religoulsly try to use them at least once a day as they have soo made me chuckle!! Maybe docmac could prescribe them and boots should start selling them over-the-counter for stress relief!)))

Seriously, i wonder what has happened to her highness the Queen Bee? Maybe her drones have overfed her and she's too sated to type? hmmm...

Yes viv, i do think you are sweet. That's been obvious from how you think and care. I would dare you to post the most horrible thing that you know of but i fear it would be copied and pasted and used in evidence!

Dyl x

Dylan said...

Dolores - Spin into space - looool!

Unfortunately, i think a rich entrepreneur would pay NASA to go rescue him though! How much funds have they got left? ;)

sickofconspiracies said...

Viv,
Please stop accusing me of being someone else, its getting annoying. I am NOT this person. I'm female, I don't have an account with the DX, and I'd never post there anyway.
:(

Dylan said...

I see that the queen bee is back in force on de, together with tex mex who is trying very hard to be intelligently sarky.

Post from our dear Alsabella:

FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING IN PORTUGAL

07.02.08, 6:40pm

One of the opposing parties in Parliament has asked that the Minister of Justice go before them and explain A. Ribeiro's inappropriate comments. They also wish to know why he has not been relieved of his position.
..........................................................................
Dove:
Ribeiro (I think I read) felt under pressure to make the remarks.
Why?
........................................................
In the meanwhile, Mr. A. Ribeiro has once again apologised to his officers saying he chose his words poorly...
......................................................
Dove:
I hold little sympathy for him as I feel that he's done you and your people an injustice. He should learn (as I'm sure you'll agree) to keep his gob shut....pity C.M. can't do the same, but there you are.

• Posted by: alsabelIa • Report Comment

_________________________________

Thought it was worth sharing and i hope she doesn't mind my pasting.

The pros are having a field day with what the DE has printed (which is really a rehash of what the DM said yesterday). I'm sure they will all be eating their own hats soon.

Have to go now and will say nite nite now in case i don't get a chance to come back later. I didn't mean to be rude last night and slink off without saying bye!

Take care and have a good evening all.

Dyl x

dolores said...

Viv / Dyl
Guess what ,,Iwas reading a few posts on DE and the it got pulled, along with the latest article, they are all getting worried and in a flap, they have moved over to yesterdays article

SueB said...

'PJ can't wait to visit Leics!'

The team on the Maddie case is desperate to visit Leicester to watch the new interrogation
to be made of McCann and friends who were in Portugal.


The request letters destined to interrogate the couple McCann and the seven friends with who has dinner in a restaurant of the Ocean Club, Beach of the Light, Algarve, followed, by the second time, for the Home Office British, the equivalent one to the Department of the Internal Administration. This after, as the 24horas reported in the past week, the first have been returned by mere bureaucratic reasons.

The English understood that the request should have been formalized directly by the Procuradoria-General one of the Republic (PGR) and not Eurojust.

An official information of the PGR where was said that that institution was trying to resolve a problem to which was someone else's provoked a climate of tension between Eurojust and of the Procuradoria, however it's already resolved.

Now, the proxy of the Republic Magalhães e Menezes, title of the trial, awaits for green light of England for send a team of the PJ to that country.

Source: http://www.the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3271

dolores said...

They have also pulled the same article...'Police set to clear McCann's' from TheTelegraph

Could something be about to happen, or has the pink blob worked his majic again?

felicity said...

Hiya Im back from taking my little one to work. Sorry you have to go Dyl but even I cant be here all the while - although chatting with you lot is compulsively good. Sue I bet the PJs cannot wait to get on with the job - in any job people like to get results and the bureaucratic wranglings causing such delay must be very frustrating for them. I remain concerned our Home Office thought it was appropriate not to accept the papers direct from Eurojust who could oversee the process and ensure fair play. However, I also remain convinced Gordon Brown will want these two dealt with and would certainly not consider them worthy of causing damage to his own position! With the manipulations of Whitehall civil servants who knows what their motivation is - but Claris could be pulling a few strings with them which is disgraceful. Delay will not get them off. I read it was considered very important to get both the Portuguese and the British on side if he thinks buying a bit more time to do so was effective ...carry on deluding yourself Pink Shirted One!

Viv xx

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

Are they really pulling these articles? This could be an exciting development! Newspapers are not allowed to print anything that may prejudice an impending court case! Maybe they got warned..stop printing this Claris rubbish..maybe PJ IMMINENT???

Viv x

dolores said...

Hi Viv
It is true, if you try and access it, it says, 'this article has been removed'
Perhaps the PJ are here already.

And they are really worried about the forum being closed on HYS
The pink shirted one.....loool.


xx

felicity said...

Dolores! YOu are right!

Done new thread darling - I think something big is cracking off!

Well done my lovely and THANKS!!

Viv x

isis said...

star article on maddie dase closed gone too ??????

leigh3 said...

Hi All,
Did someone not ask Clarry's permission for something? Oh, dear. I guess we're not buying what he is selling on behalf of his employers: the double glazing salesman hoping for a knighthood from gullible Gordon, and using Gerry-mandering as a means to an end, it would seem.

Really, we must learn to do as we are told...or not. I prefer or not :-)
Buenos noches, compadres.
Leigh3

leigh3 said...

21.47GMT. Darn! Maths is not my forte :-)

Dylan said...

L3,

Gerry-mandering! That's a touch of pure genius!

Q) where would GMcC draw borders?

A)around Leics. All nations allowed, except Portugal. You're not on the list so you're not invited!

Leigh, brilliant!

Dyl x

Anonymous said...

The3arguidos.net are now taking donations. A group of us are reporting them here:

www.taxevasionhotline.co.uk

Can we count on your support?

They are profiting from Maddy's dissapearance just like the McCanns!

SG http://www.truthformadeleine.com/forum/default.asp

felicity said...

chuckling away Leigh..I prefer not . Let us just say no to gerrymandering ..meander off somewhere gerry there's a love..get yourself 14 bottles of vino and jog into oblivion..make yourself a movie and sit and watch it pal thing is mate no one else wants to listen..

luv ya gerry mander
viv x