24 Feb 2008

As the second of the articles from the Guardian below confirm what was immediately being fed to the press in PDL at the time was contrived and controlled. We saw Gerry McCann immediately reading a prepared "script". How come he could not just talk spontaneously and his sadness at the loss of his daughter and appeal to the public for help? This control freakery he always displays has made the public, quite rightly, highly suspicious from the outset. Given all this control freakery from the outset.. how odd then, that here we have a report of Gerry McCann himself checking the children at 9.30, not Oldfield! Given that it clearly has been so contrived and controlled, why have we had so many conflicting stories about who checked the children and precisely when? These lies are quite rightly at the heart of the police case and their need to interview certain TAPAS members, yet again, prior to finally assembling the prosecution case which must surely see other TAPAS members, particularly OB and Tanner named as Arguidos. Oldfield appears to have agreed to have falsely stated he checked the children at 9.30 - I think it is highly likely that if he was prepared to admit that was a lie - which the police can prove anyway due to other witnesses, he may avoid prosecution himself by becoming a prosecution witness. This fits with Docmacs account that it is him who has gone to the police via his solicitor to change his story. Far better to do this than give up his fantastic lifestyle living in a £1M pad in Surrey. Surely, he would reason, he is not going to give that up and go to prison, for the sake of Kate and Gerry McCann once he realised the game was up. Who would!


~Viv x

Q&A: Madeleine McCann
Steven Morris in Praia da Luz, Portugal
guardian.co.uk,
Tuesday May 8 2007

This article was first published on guardian.co.uk on Tuesday May 08 2007. It was last updated at 16:41 on May 08 2007.When did Madeleine vanish?
Between 9.30pm and 10pm on Thursday. Her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, were dining at a tapas bar in a Mark Warner resort around 100 metres from the apartment where Madeleine and her twin siblings were sleeping. The McCanns checked on the children at around half-hourly intervals. Mr McCann checked at 9.30pm, but when the couple returned at about 10pm, Madeleine had gone. A pool, hedge, wall and alleyway are between the bar and the apartment.
How could a kidnapper have got into the apartment?
There are three likely routes. The bedroom in which Madeleine was sleeping has a window with a plastic shutter and a door leading to a narrow car park and a quiet residential street. This side of the apartment cannot be seen from the tapas bar. At the back of the apartment, which can partially be seen from the bar, are French windows. These were the doors the parents were coming in through when they checked the children, and may have been left unlocked.
Were the doors or window forced?
Members of Madeleine's family said the shutter on the street window was forced, and police have fingerprinted it. However, the Mark Warner holiday company said there was no sign of a forced break-in. A kidnapper could have come through the street window and left via the street door. It is unlikely he or she would have entered or left via the French windows, because they face the tapas bar and the rest of the complex.
Do the police have any suspects?
At the weekend, they seemed to say they had a suspect in mind. However, it became clear earlier this week that this was not a named person but a man who witnesses had seen acting suspiciously. A sketch of the man has been made but not published - normal procedure for the police in Portugal - but it is not a clear image.
Why has so little information been published?
The Portuguese police claim their judicial system makes it impossible to release information for fear of prejudicing any future case. However, Madeleine's family are known to be frustrated at the way the investigation is being handled. It was their decision to make the direct appeal to any kidnapper and to release details of what Madeleine was wearing - the police had not done so.
Has the search been thorough?
Many people, including some family members, believe not. Criticism that the police did not even begin searching immediately, however, seems unfounded - officers and members of the public began a search as soon as Madeleine was reported missing.
However, there is scant evidence of an organised, exhaustive search. Neither border nor marine police were given descriptions of Madeleine for many hours after she vanished, and officers have not been seen making extensive door-to-door inquiries.
What about the police investigation?
Again, it appears unsatisfactory. The scene has not been secured as tightly as it would have been in the UK. Passers-by are allowed to go right up to the shutters of the window that Madeleine's parents say were forced. The lack of appeals for help and information has upset the family and surprised police experts.
There have been suggestions that the police are hiding behind the idea that they cannot release information because they might prejudice the case. Article 86 of the Portuguese processo penal says information must not be released, apart from in exceptional circumstances. Nevertheless, the lack of information has created a vaccuum that has been filled by speculation and theories ranging from the idea that a paedophile ring is behind the kidnapping to the claim that she may have been abducted to order.

------------------------------
Mechanics of the McCann campaign
Professional media management may have generated coverage of Maddy's disappearance, but it hasn't helped with public sympathy for the family
Steve Hewlett
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January 31, 2008 2:30 PM Printable version
A Media Society/Polis debate last night saw Gerry and Kate McCann's current and former spokespeople - Clarence Mitchell and Justine McGuinness - discuss the media and the McCanns with Kelvin MacKenzie, Roy Greenslade and filmmakers Roger Graef and David Mills. I should say in the interests of transparency that I chaired the event in front of a packed house at the LSE in London.
The big question set out for debate by the organisers was how well (or badly) had the press and media done in their coverage of what must surely be the most reported story of the last nine months. Consensus among the speakers was pretty negative and Clarence Mitchell was utterly scathing, accusing some journalists of peddling information they knew to be wrong or unfounded - largely for the purpose of stoking up sales. MacKenzie, ex-editor of the Sun, cautioned the audience against being too censorious on the grounds that it was their fascination with the story that led newspapers - which are, after all, commercial entities - to deal with it so prominently and frequently.
MacKenzie then went on to say two things that in my view had rather greater resonance in the meeting than any of the relatively predictable press bashing - no matter how justified. He said that the public response to his Sun column, which he said was characteristic of Sun readers (ie somewhat downmarket in demographic terms), can be huge but was overwhelmingly negative towards Kate and Gerry McCann. Having left their children alone in the apartment while going out for a good time with friends has not gone down well - with the Sun's readership at least, not to mention quite a few folk in last evening's LSE audience.
This is not to suggest that most (or even many) readers think they're guilty in any sense; more that they've been complicit in their own misfortune by being less-than-attentive parents. This more starkly than anything else, it was suggested, reveals the class-based nature of public responses not so much to the calamity of Madeleine's disappearance as to her family's efforts since. And on that front MacKenzie went on to say - even more tellingly perhaps - that in the public mind PR and truth were rarely thought to sit comfortably together.
And there's the rub. Try as they might neither Clarence Mitchell nor Justine McGuinness could quite shake off the sense that the way they've managed this case might have contributed to some negative public sentiment towards the family. In place initially as what Mitchell described as "a buffer" between the shocked and distraught parents and the world's media, hungry for news about Madeleine, it's clear that what developed was a professional media management operation. With city PR firm Bell Pottinger on hand - primarily, we can assume, to defend the interests of their clients Mark Warner Holidays - as well as Justine and, latterly, Clarence with all their experience of Westminster spin, the McCanns could not have wanted for more professional advice. But as time went on media management itself - and once you've started feeding stories to the press to get control of the agenda, you really can't stop - began generating negative reaction from other parties.
Portuguese journalists found people close to the McCanns unwilling to speak for fear of breaking an agreement that Kate and Gerry would pre-authorise anything that was to be said in public. This is standard media management in Westminster or the City but it struck some in Portugal, who thought they were simply dealing with an utterly distraught family, as so strange as to be suspicious. The Portuguese police, however slow and incompetent they might have been, found themselves on the wrong end of a very high powered media onslaught - orchestrated and facilitated in no small measure by what became the McCann campaign. They may not have been ideally equipped or experienced to deal with the case of a disappeared child but they certainly weren't prepared to find themselves up against professional media managers.
In many ways, it's hard to see what else Kate and Gerry McCann could have done; offered the same kind of assistance, how many of us would have turned it down if we thought it might help to get our missing child back? Nevertheless, it's hard to avoid at least a nagging sense of unease about aspects of the "campaign" which would appear to be reflected in what some people think about Kate and Gerry McCann.

226 comments:

1 – 200 of 226   Newer›   Newest»
isis said...

hi viv, having watched the panorama doc and hearing the presenter say that the police believe the chronology of events that nigh lie at the heart of the investigation i have always worried about the fact that by her own admission jt was back in her app next to the mc canns at "tennish" and yet did not hear kate wailing on discovering madeleine missing, is her hearing as comprimised as her eyesight. There was no mention at all of rob in that program ,he who was away from the table for a significant period of time.There are major porkies being told but i think the pj are working through thenm nicely.

dr_val said...

Hi Viv
This has just been published on 3A's; haven't checked the hardcopy version, can't see it ob the online version:
"Nige of the Mccannfiles.com has found in today's Sunday Express:

"Hogan International: an apology, Sunday Express (No online link)

On January 13 we published an article headed "Fears that new Maddie detective is 'not up to task'" in which we wrongly claimed that Noel Hogan’s investigation agency had taken over the private investigation into Maddie’s disappearance and accused it of being "not up to the task."

We wish to withdraw unequivocally the suggestion that either Mr Hogan or his agency are incompetent or had misled the McCanns about their capabilities. We are happy to clarify that Mr Hogan’s company has been retained by Metodo 3, the Spanish agency who work for the McCanns, to carry out work in the UK.

This is part of a long-standing arrangement between the two agencies to instruct each other for work in their respective countries. The impression we gave that there is animosity between them and that Mr Hogan breached professional confidences was also wrong.

We apologise to Mr Hogan for the embarrassment and distress caused by our article and have agreed to pay him and his agency compensation and legal costs."

I spotted (through a google) that you had a piece about this

dylan said...

Viv,

Thought I would copy the comment addressed to me under the older heading in case you didn't catch it:

Anon:

That is assuming you will have any left by the time they are old enough to go to university. You don't share your friends' parenting philosophy, do you?
-----------------------------------

That's an utterly disgusting thing to say.

Viv - I'm really upset. In everything that I have said in defence of my beliefs, I have never wished anyone the loss of their children.

This has got out of hand now. Is there anything you can do?
I don't like to admit when people make me cry, but this person has.

---------------------------------

Dylan :(

isis said...

dyl, left you a post on the previous thread.xxx

Anonymous said...

GINA M SAYS Hi 2345, You asked if I still post on DE, well I haven't been banned (yet) but there is no article to post on which is a pity. If there was people like Anon
who has a lot to say on here but does not give a name would have to at least be recognised and then ignored!!

Di said...

Dyl

Can't stop just caught your post from Anon and had to reply to you. PLEASE ignore him/her/them. I know it is hard but anon is also giving them a hard time on Alsabella's site. I really believe the trolls are now out to make as much trouble as possible by upsetting people in the hope they will stop posting. If we all ignore them hopefully they will soon get bored. It is so ignorant to post as anon. I only just met you last night and looked back at your posts and in no way have you said anything untoward.

Please don't upset yourself Dyl, and I look forward to your continued posting.

dylan said...

Cheers Di & Dolores.

This is the very reason I never dared to post on DE.

I refuse to let them stop me posting now I'm here. I might be very upset but I'm not broken.

It's nice to know the majority are decent and kind people. I know I wrote a stupid poem but it was in jest and no harm meant. In comparison with the vitriol we get back, obviously someone can't take a joke without getting nasty!

I know who I am, I know who my friends are and I know that they love their kids too. It's getting very tedious to hear that doc is a liar, doc is this or that and I also saw something very nasty about viv too. It seems people are too close to the truth for comfort!

Dyl x (very silly ha ha ha)

Anonymous said...

Di,
I read the posts on alsabella's site from the Troll. There is something definitely wrong with that person. The Troll must be fed up talking to itself on it's own site that it has to go to decent posters on other sites to try and get it's kicks. Poor M having that representing her.
Dylan I left you a post on the other link.
Zodiac

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED TROLLS.

2345 said...

Dyl,

Rest assured, if the McCanns were innocent, you and many others would not be subjected to calculated psychological bullying.

Those in every Forum taking a stand for Madeleine's rights are also taking a stand for their rights to free thinking and free speech.

The activity here in the past two days stems from two people; one of whom caused the damning forensic evidence found by cadavers. The behaviour meted to us is the result of the Police expertize and commitment to Madeleine, the victim.

The unnecessary unpleasantness simply reinforces our support for the Police, the victim and like minded commentators like you.

Remeber, strategic disruption will not alter PJ's dossier of evidence, nor will it affect Forums such as these. The cowards hiding behind screens lack the love which exists with you and your family. Madeleine and the twins lacked a loving mother like you; abandoned night after night out of eyesight and earshot. 7.10 p.m.

United we stand ...

2345 said...

Dr Val,

Thanks for the article. Glad to see one grossly misrepresented person has taken a stand against DE's gutter press and received a public apology. It's a shame he's the first person to do so.
7.10 p.m.

2345 said...

Anonymous,

Do yourself a favour ... tele sales is more your forte. 7.15 p.m.

Anonymous said...

Anon

The other Anon how many are there????

Anonymous said...

Hi Dyl, I understand you were having some problems with trolls. To lighten the atmosphere they create watch

http://youtube.com/watch?v=c-roML5gqKw

This gives a funny view of the day in the life of a troll.

Wizard 20.20pm

Anonymous said...

Hogan International apology -

Sunday Express apology to the above on page 9 of today's hard copy.

Wizard 20.22

Di said...

Zodiac

Best not to feed them, leave them under their bridge.

I have been out today with various family members, my birthday, after a couple of hours two nephews, who are in their late 20's mentioned the Maddie case and asked for an opinion around the table. I should say the family,that were there, range from 25-82. I kept very quiet as I was extremely interested to hear their comments. What I found most surprising was all, at first, agreed they were devastated for Gerry & Kate, but when they left Portugal in such a hurry, after saying they would not leave without Maddie, all said they thought something was not right. Obviously we did not dwell on this for toolong, but what I found interesting was the age range and the views. All came down to the same conclusion the parents had something to hide.

I did enjoy my meal out and it is always wonderful to hear from young and old, it leads to very interesting conversation.

Dyl hope you are OK.

felicity said...

Dillie

I am very sorry you have been so upset by comments from the troll, calculated to upset decent people. I have been out for most of the day and so was not aware of what has been going on.

Please remember you are among decent people on here who will all stand together and stand firm against their vile campaign. Their is damning evidence against Kate and Gerry McCann and this will continue to increase their nastiness. They are like a little witche's coven. Alsabella and myself very fairly make our blogs available to all who want to post. I see on the Daily Express you must write to an email address to get admission to their little coven, where no doubt they work out the next stragegy of their hate campaign, deliberately picking on kind hearted and pleasant people like yourself. Recognise them for what they are and stand shoulder to shoulder with us and against them. We are on the side of the little angel and the fundamental right to freedom of speech.

Take Care My Friend. Please carry on posting, we love your often humorous and kind hearted approach. Humour or mocking their tactics is nothing to apologise for - they deserve it.

Luv and Massive Hugs to you Viv x

Wizard/Zodiac/Gina M and any others I have missed - delighted to see you posting - this coward who cannot even give us its name - will not disrupt this site - it gets stronger and bigger!

Dr Val - very interested to see DE apology to Hogan - clearly they commmenced legal proceedings for defamation. I notice Metodo 3 did not commence legal proceedings against the utterly damning article on them fro the Times that I reproduced on here :-)

Viv x

hope4truth said...

Blimey I go out fot the day and come back and some nasty bit of work had upset Dillie someone must be very worried to go to the trouble to keep telling anyone who posts here they are scum?

They really employed the wrong people to post for them they should sack the lot of them and refuse to give them a refrence they are crap...

Not sure if Tinkerbell was paid (I dont think so) but although I did not agree with her about very many things she did stand by her convictions without being a nasty bitch and she made me think about what she had to say if a few more had been like her I may have changed my mind.

Once people start bullying then you realise there is something to hide and the doubt I had about the abduction grew and grew...

The Annons of this world can get stuffed I am hidden behind my blog name but I do not lie about anything else.

Another tactic on the DX was for people to start lying about what you were pathetic... I can see them all now franticly e mailing each other about what they should say next and who to target not something you need to do in a chat room unless you must beyond all else get your story straight...

Madeleine 3 years old neglected and left alone to her fate. The thought of her dancing makes me sad as it is not likely she is the DNA points towards a cover up but until the case goes to court I will stick to the one fact she was neglected and because of this she is missing and all children should have a voice and Madeleiene seems to have lost hers....

God bless this beautiful missing child....

Atardi said...

DR_Val,

Very interesting. Apologies from DE to Hogan International. Do you think this one of the reasons why DE pulled all the articles about Madeleine?

Will there be more apologies?

Dylan,

Do like Zodiac said:

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED TROLLS.

What happened to you happened also to a poster on the DE forum.
Keep posting but don't get involved with "unknown" posters.

isis said...

goodnight all, just a thought reading back over the last few hundred posts,i really do think that these trolls come here on a divide and conquer mission.They are obviously trying to plant seeds of doubt in our collective minds. By this i think that by their comments they are trying to imply that there is a mole on this site posing as an anti. Trying to sow the seeds of paranoia in us all .

hope4truth said...

ISIS

Good point we can all be paranoid together but as long as we all care about the truth for Madeleine that is all that matters...

If she was to turn up alive and well tomorrow I would be overjoyed and so pleased to be wrong.

Her parents would be delighted and would hopefully never neglect their children again and be so lucky to get a second chance...

Goodnight x

felicity said...

Hiya Atardi

As Hogan featured so little in the DE articles concerning the McCanns I do not think this would have been the reason for pulling them all. They state they are to be temporarily removed for operational reasons. This implies to be the case is now sub judice - the charging of the McCanns is imminent and if the DE continued to allow adverse comment against the McCanns they could be held in contempt of court for prejudicing their right to a fair trial. If you recall in other serious cases, e.g. Shipman and Huntley the press always have to go quiet just before they are charged and once they are charged until after they are actually convicted . Hence the DE say the articles are removed temporily once the McCanns are actually convicted they could not then harm any pending court proceedings and they will probably put them back. Clearly posters like myself who are against the McCanns cannot be held to have defamed them for simply spseaking the truth, e.g. a reasonable analysis of what we know, and an informed opinion about the personality/mental health of Kate and Gerry McCann based upon a study of their conduct and all the information in the public domain. Clearly also it is not unlawful or defamatory to happen to believe the police in Portugal and UK are honestly pursuing the McCanns for homicide and disposal of their little girl, based upon evidence they have collected, inferences they can draw from that and failure to discover any evidence, forensic or otherwise of any predator.

~Viv x

Viv x

ratonthebeam said...

Dyl
Don't you dare stop posting here because of this nasty little pair of trolls! You have the respect of the people here who really count. Don't feef them and they will starve.
I will try and write another song for you to cheer you up!
rat 21:29 GMT

felicity said...

ISIS

I have seen a post on here from the troll, which I have left something about I need a bedpan for a pee which Docmac will get for me. I would this person is just sick and would not ascribe any intelligent thought process going on there. However Psychopops is also posting on here and likewise I have left some of those posts, bar the ones that descend to the depths of pure personal attacks. Psychopops is like a stuck gramaphone record, we heard it 7000 times on the Daily Express, hearing it a few more times on here will not change the fact this man is desperate, he knows where he is going. He may try to convince himself e.g. I see he has put a number of posts on here where are the rogatory letters, it does not convince us. This couple will face the same justice that all child killers face.


Viv x

Anonymous said...

Di

Happy Birthday. You mention the age group and their views of this situation. That is something I have thought of. It is the younger generation of this time that possibly will be the ones who will have stronger views regarding the neglect. The children of now, the ones growing up with responsible parents. My little girl is 8 she was 7 when this little girl vanished. My daughter asked me why the parents had left their 3 children all alone, did they not know that was wrong, did they not know that would be very scary. My older children 23,20&18 think the parents are 'idiots' and they are totally to blame. Read you later.
Zodiac

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED TROLLS.

hope4truth said...

Zodiac

My girls were amazed that anyone would leave children alone as well... They just did not think anyone would ever do that...

pedagogiek said...

Viv,

Thanks for the expalantion. I'm not a UK citizen but because of the Madeleine's case if have read about Shipman and the Huntley case was on national tv and pares here.

I don't have a law background like you so can you please post the following you explained to me twice a day on your blog?

This implies to be the case is now sub judice - the charging of the McCanns is imminent and if the DE continued to allow adverse comment against the McCanns they could be held in contempt of court for prejudicing their right to a fair trial. If you recall in other serious cases, e.g. Shipman and Huntley the press always have to go quiet just before they are charged and once they are charged until after they are actually convicted . Hence the DE say the articles are removed temporily once the McCanns are actually convicted they could not then harm any pending court proceedings and they will probably put them back. Clearly posters like myself who are against the McCanns cannot be held to have defamed them for simply spseaking the truth, e.g. a reasonable analysis of what we know, and an informed opinion about the personality/mental health of Kate and Gerry McCann based upon a study of their conduct and all the information in the public domain. Clearly also it is not unlawful or defamatory to happen to believe the police in Portugal and UK are honestly pursuing the McCanns for homicide and disposal of their little girl, based upon evidence they have collected, inferences they can draw from that and failure to discover any evidence, forensic or otherwise of any predator.

Atardi said...

Viv,

Pedagogiek must be Atardi.

ratonthebeam said...

Evening all, (posted already on the other thread but just in case anyone missed it.....)

Just in from the baths, and off to have some tea....we went in past Asda on the way home, specially so I could get a hardcopy of the Sunday Express. Well, as you might not know, we get the Scottish edition here, which is sometimes different to the one advertised on the website. And guess what, NO STORY AT ALL about Maddie, or the Clown Councillor, or the swarthy Portuguese-speaking Italians in the putty coloured people carrier; not on page 1, or page 4, or any other page, of the Scottish Sunday Express.

Funny, that. You'd think with it being such a big, important story, it would be in all the papers.....

rat 21:23 GMT

isis said...

hi hope, it is the one time in my life that i hpoe i am wrong, there is still atiny corner in me that says just mabey.Then i get back to the real world and the best i can do is pray that there is justice done for this little child. O and on an entirely different topic, i have had my first post on the de deleted!!!!

hope4truth said...

Isis

Yes we have to get back to reality but we would be pleased to be wrong...

Why the deletion on the DX?

hope4truth said...

Rat

You would think it would be on the news and in all papers?

This gets stranger by the day???

22.05

Anonymous said...

Gina M says, to hell with the trolls who cannot contribute anything worth reading because they are on day release from the asylum, so have pity on them please!!

Now what do you make of this latest UK sighting, it has to be the best ever. 2 people call on a guy in Dorset with the most famous missing child to look at some secondhand furniture, and this guy knew they were talking in Portuguese but he didn't know how to do something positive when the child was IN HIS HOUSE, and I doubt if he even got the car number.

Now I do not want to be offensive to those of you from Dorset, but my friend who was having a hard time with her ex (from Dorset) told me it was because of the saying "Dorset born, Dorset bred, strong in the arm but think in the head". Seems that this does not apply to all but I think it might to Mr. Thicko with this latest sighting!!!

Nite all, take care Gina M

ratonthebeam said...

I just looked at the Sunday Mail (which is different from the Mail on Sunday - the English language can be very confusing sometimes!). The Sunday Mail is the Sunday edition of the Daily Record, which is the most popular Scottish tabloid. Very pro-McCann, I think Gerry might have a friend who works there, but not terribly accurate or objective.

There are only seven unique articles now coming up under a search of "Madeleine McCann". There used to be more. A LOT more. I think a lot of stuff has been removed from the Sunday Mail - I haven't checked out the Daily Record yet.

Something is definitely going on here.

rat 22:07 GMT

ratonthebeam said...

14 articles left on the Daily Record. Nothing from before October - it has all been purged! WTF???!!!

rat 22:15 GMT

lizzy said...

rat/ hope
I think that all the papers are removing articles re Maddie as the PJ are due and they are being careful as to not have anything they shoudn't have in print.They all appear to be removing all traces of forums etc.
I hope that the speed in which this has happened means that thier visit is imminent. Time will tell I think. Lizzy 22.20

Atardi said...

Isis,Hope4truth and others who want justice for Madeleine,

If everyone ignore the anonymous posters or the so called mole than we can have a discussion.

I've been reading today but didn't want to post because all the attention goes to the anonymous posters. And that's their goal.

Dr_Val had an interesting post but it got lost because of the ones who post about insignificant things. Being nasty to other posters.

So I spent my time on a Dutch site where my children had subscribed to when Madeliene went missing.

I found a Timeline from BBC from 3 may 2007 untill 8 september 2007.
The 6th of august is very interesting.

Here is a copy it's very long but this is how it all started:

tijdlijn 3 mei- 8sept Volgens BBC- News

Beheerders Marion&Joyce&Jacqueline
Beheerders Marion&Joyce&Jacqueline (157)
9 sep, 09:56, 708 x bekeken THE INVESTIGATION

3 May - Three-year-old Madeleine McCann goes missing from her family's apartment in Praia da Luz.

5 May - As the search for Madeleine continues, her parents issue a statement to say they "cannot describe the anguish and despair" they are feeling at their daughter's disappearance.

12 May - Mr and Mrs McCann make a fresh appeal for help on their daughter's fourth birthday.

15 May - British-born Robert Murat is made an official suspect - or "arguido" - following a search of his mother's villa. Casa Liliana is just 150 yards from the apartment where Madeleine went missing.

26 May - A description of a man seen on the night Madeleine went missing "carrying a child or an object that could have been taken as a child" is issued by police.
Madeleine police hunt for suspect

30 May - The McCanns meet the Pope at a general audience in Rome at the start of a "European tour" to raise awareness of Madeleine's disappearance.

6 June - A German reporter asks the McCanns how they feel about the fact that "more and more people seem to be pointing the finger" at them, during a press conference in Berlin.

12 June - Mr and Mrs McCann arrive back in Portugal following their European tour.

17 June - Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa admits vital forensic clues may have been destroyed in the hours after Madeleine's disappearance, as the scene was not protected properly.
Madeleine evidence 'may be lost'

10 July - Formal suspect Robert Murat re-questioned

Late July - British sniffer dogs fly out to Portugal. Keela, who can detect minute quantities of blood, and Eddie, who is trained to detect dead bodies, work in the apartment and several cars, including the hire car the McCanns rented 25 days after Madeleine disappeared.

6 August - Police fail to find any new evidence after a search at the home of Mr Murat following a two-day search, the BBC understands.

7 August - Forensic tests are carried out in a Birmingham lab on suspected traces of blood found by sniffer dogs in Madeleine's apartment.

11 August - Police in Portugal acknowledge for the first time that, in light of new evidence, Madeleine may be dead. Chief Inspector Sousa adds that Mr and Mrs McCann are not being considered as suspects following newspaper speculation that they were under suspicion.
Madeleine may be dead, police say

24 August - Police say they still have doubts over how Madeleine disappeared and whether she will ever be found.

31 August - The McCanns launch a libel action against Portuguese newspaper Tal & Qual which claimed "police believe" they killed their daughter. The McCanns say they are "deeply hurt" by the allegations.

6 September - Portuguese police interview Kate McCann for 11 hours as a witness in the presence of her lawyer. Separately, Portuguese detectives confirm they have the partial results of forensic tests by a UK laboratory.

7 September - Madeleine's mother is declared an official suspect and fears she could be charged, friends say. Gerry McCann is also named as a formal suspect following more questioning.

9 september Madeleine's parents leave Portugal to head back home to the UK. Bekijk ook andere blogs van Beheerders Marion&Joyce&Jacqueline!
Dit is niet OK

ratonthebeam said...

Just got this fromthe DX - it seems to be a standard reply.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Many thanks for your email - and indeed your continued support as a regular reader.

I assure you, we do value you - and your input.

Due to operational reasons, a number of stories which previously appeared on express.co.uk have been made temporarily unavailable.

Apologies if this causes any inconvenience or disrupts your use of our website.

I'm afraid I can't go into any more detail with you personally.

However I would like to emphasise once again that we value your readership - and are grateful for your ongoing support of express.co.uk.

Best wishes

The Web Team

rat 22:25 GMT

hope4truth said...

Lizzy Atardi Rat

Lizzy Yes it is the only reason I can think of as to why they have all gone....

Atardi intresting timeline dont blame you for going elsewhere (your post earlier have you got someone pretending to be you?)..

Rat Polite e mail they obviously dont want anyone to stop reading or posting on the DX all very strange...
22.33

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
hope4truth said...

Atardi

And you are right it is best to ignore the Annons of this world...

IN saying that it is so funny the way they keep on about Docmac I am sure he is a doctor but they seem so keen to put doubt in everyones mind the more they do it the more I am convinced he knows what he is talking about and has them worried...

But I will ignore them all now sad idiots...

ratonthebeam said...

If the Rogatory Letters were sered on the 3rd, as has been reported, they woould have had to be acted upon by yesterday, the 23rd.

I think that maybe - just maybe - or at least I hope - the case is now sub judice and the RLs are about to bear fruit.

rat 22:39 GMT

ratonthebeam said...

Hope

I can assure you that docmac really is a paedeatrician in South Africa. Viv and Claudia can tell you exactly the same, for a fact. Take no notice of the trolls, they are just trying to discredit him because he is rattling some cages.

rat 22:43 GMT

Atardi said...

Hope4truth,

No the post earlier was mine. I hate the anonymous posts.
But I hit the publish your comment too soon.

Where you can choose an identity it says you're currently posting as pedagogiek. And I didn't choose to use a different account.

It's not that I went elsewhere but I don't have the energy to cope with silly posts.

hope4truth said...

Rat

I believe he is a Dr but he must be on the right track to have upset so many people or they would not have to keep posting rubbish about him..

Dont these fools realise the more they try and disrupt things the more we realsie they are desprate to shut us up?

hope4truth said...

Atardi

I get it now was a bit confused and thought you had a stalker LOL

isis said...

atardi , that was a very good timelinee.Ratty whoosh cluck in your papers too? I hope the pj are en route as this whole sorry mess needs to be sorted, i wonder if we will know they are in the uk? or will clarence cover them all with a pink banket??Hope ii think the deletion on the de is probably tied in with the pj visit .

Cláudia said...

Yes, I can confirm Doc is who he says he is. :-)And that is exactly what bothers the child neglecters! :-)

hope4truth said...

Isis

Pink blanket LOL

dylan said...

Oh my goodness! Thank you so very much everybody for the overwhelming support. Feel much better now.

Of course I won't stop posting here, where else could I find such a great bunch to witter my humble opinions to? (apart from Alsabella's)

Many happy returns of the day, Di. I hope you enjoyed yourself. My nan is a an old stoic, bless her, and never says much about anything, but she's said from the start that it was a disgrace to leave the children alone.

Isis, hope I haven't missed you. Did your husband enjoy the documentary? I could only watch up until 3 degrees and then got scared! It's great he works for renewables. It is the only way forward IMHO and I don't happen to think that windturbines are an eyesore. I hope they will come to mean a symbol of much nicer things in the future. I saw a very interesting programme the other night on geothermal energy. It turns out that it's not really renewable but some bright spark thought - why not recycle the steam and put the water back into the lithosphere. The heat is still there, it's just that the water's been used up!

There's a lot of work going into carbon sequestering too. It's a good idea but only if we can be sure it's not going to come back up again! (like a bad meal!)

Rat - very strange goings on with the Scottish version of the Express. Surely this means that things are happening?

Hope, sorry I missed you again. Of course your children don't understand why parents would leave thier children, as yours have never been exposed to neglect. You're obviously a great mum (but only when you give your daughters money for jeans of course ;)

Wizard and Zodiac, cheers very much too. I will check out the troll link!

Viv - kind as ever & thanks. I know I am barking mad but i'd rather be barking than biting.

Looking forward to the song Rat.
I may even try to compose another soon but one little ditty in a day is enough for my silly brain to handle!

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED THE TROLLS.

Dyl x

hope4truth said...

Hello Claudia

Hope you are well x

Atardi said...

hope4truth,

It happened before that I pressed the publish your comment button too soon. I think I must explain my partner about this.

One thing I want to avoid is confussion. I hate it. And that's why I spent my time reading the hyves of Madeleine.

If you see pedagogiek again it's just me who forgot to choose another identity.

hope4truth said...

Hi Dillie

Yes best to ignor idiot Annons...

I love wind turbines they are putting one near us soon I dont think they are ugly at all... I am scared of heights (did not stop me doing 2 bungee jumps) but I get the same fear when I look up at tall objects (nelsons colum makes me go really strange) so it is nice to see them from a distance but if I get to close and look up I get scared (strange soul that I am) but I still think we should have lots of them..

You have hit the nail on the head re children I am the worlds best Mum but only if I buy them new Jeans LOL

Glad you are staying xxx

Cláudia said...

Hello, Hope4truth!
I'm great, thanks.
Hope you're ok too! :)
xxxx

isis said...

hope, yes im getting a visual on that :)))))) Dylan, someone with a beautiful welsh name and is not afraid to put it at the end of her posts has a far better mind than one who has to hide behind anonimity.

hope4truth said...

Atardi

I will say hi if I see pedagogiek again then (what does pedagogiek mean???)

23.01

hope4truth said...

Claudia

I am fine thanks nice to see you x

Anonymous said...

Dillie,

What a stupid song or poem, you really must try harder.
That exam you said you had done ?

Anonymous said...

Thanks Mandz I'm glad you appreciated it

isis said...

taken from the 3a forum, i hope its ok to do
http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/2008/01/kate-and-gerry-mccann-is-party-over.html

'.....Among many details that are confuse or contradictory, Police sources refer the fact that witnesses confirm they saw Gerry McCann and Russell O'Brien going inside apartment 5A to check the three children sleeping there. The McCann spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, is already preparing public opinion for a new interrogation of Madeleine's parents and yesterday told British Media that Kate and Gerry would be pleased to clarify “misunderstandings” related with their previous statements."....'

2 comments:
Mike Hitchen said...
Hi Ann, one fact that is not widely reported is that the dogs picked up the scent of death on both sides of the window.

07 January 2008 00:41
Anna Silvestro said...
Hi Mike,
Now that is interesting. I haven't seen that reported anywhere and it has me wondering now about how the scent could have got there. Several UK newspapers have reported that the PJ has enough evidence to prosecute the McCanns and I think that evidence must be very complex. A few shocks in store, possibly, for quite a few people in the UK who have just read what they are fed by our own journalists.

Thanks Mike and have a good evening.

Anna

07 January 2008 07:59
that??

Anonymous said...

Suprtroll,
thats not anon
think its another docnot tribute. Sick perv is everywhere, worried or what ? he should be now with all the info on him whoopee.

supertroll said...

Wouldn't surprise me at all,
reaction to anons anagram?

To not doc, lifeless hooter?
ST

hope4truth said...

Isis

That was intresting I wonder what information the PJ have no wondere the spin is still going on...

isis said...

hope , i think some underestimate the pj and the amount of evidence they have amassed. For a judge to grant an extension to the case, there must be a pretty good reason and for anyone to question that it is to question the entire portugese judiciary. Not a wise thing to do.

ratonthebeam said...

I hope this is true (well, not really, but you will know what I mean...) It's from Paulo Reiss' blog....

8.2.08
Page on stand by….

Due to a small health problem (nothing serious, but takes some time, may be a few weeks….) this page will not be updated with regularity. My apologies, and I’ll be back as soon as I can.

It's not that I hope he really IS ill (which I don't) but that HE hasn't been culled, as well....

rat 23:25 GMT

hope4truth said...

Isis

They must have a watertight case to procede and I admire them for going with it. If they had wanted to fit anyone up they could have done that to Murat and if they had wanted it to go away they could have agreed with the abduction and have not lost face as so many abductions are never solved (sadley)...

Shannon Mathews is still missing It is so sad I hope she is found soon poor little thing she is only 9...

Atardi said...

hope4truth,

I had to look in the dictionary to translate "pedagogiek". In English it is "Educational Theory". or "Pedagogics".

That's why i got involved with the Madeleine's case.

dylan said...

Hiya Hope,

You are brave. I wouldn't DARE do a bungee jump! I'm a great mum today 'cos I bought my daughter her hair dye she wanted and some extra special girlie hand cream to keep in her school bag. She must have looked at my gnarled hands and thought, bloody hell, I am NEVER going to do the washing-up!)))

Hiya 2345, forgot to mention you earlier. Don't know where we would all be without your insight into things. Atardi's sent some good stuff this way too - the timeline is thought provoking. Every time I see one posted, I'm reminded of all of the things I have forgotten over the past 10 months.

We all hope that Maddie will come back alive but can't believe in it with all of the evidence that the PJ have collected. They have done such a good job and kept their dignity, despite all of the bad press they are given.

The leaks stopped when they brought in the new inspector. He knows what he is doing and he has got on with the job in hand and risen above the abuse. I think he is about to lay his trump card soon.

Going to bed now. Thanks all for cheering me up. My daughter did earlier as well. She said "I love you mummy" and promptly asked for some cash!!! LOL

Luv, a far happier silly one. x

I choose not to feed the troll

supertroll said...

I believe it is not at all about a court case or charges, it is more about closing the net on certain people.

Happy posting everyone!!

hope4truth said...

Dillie

LOL yes I can be bought to but love every minute of it...

See you soon x

hope4truth said...

Atardi

Thanks for the translation and I will know who you are if you forget to change your sign in..

I am off to bed now girls go back to school tomorrow so back to reality...

Night All x

Atardi said...

Claudia,

Why must Docmac prove he is a doctor?

To me it's not important. It's just about him having his say.And if someone choose to not believe this it's her/his problem.

Doc,

Gewoon doorgaan met je berichten.

ratonthebeam said...

Dyl/Hope

I must be cheap. I only got stung for money for the swimming pool, 20p for a locker, 90p for Coke from the machine, and some sweeties on the way home. Then I bought a Sunday Express and there was NOTHING about Madeleine in it, so I am feeling well and truly done!!!

Goodnight Dyl, maybe see you tomorrow, glad you are still here!

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

rat 23:36 GMT

Anonymous said...

hope4truth,

We have the "Spring Holliday" here so I don't have to work tomorrow. But son want me to buy him a "Cars" attribute.

Thank god the stores are closed untill 13.00 next morning.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

I see that the Mail On Sunday web site is carrying the Dorset sighting story. The forum contributors seem underwhelmed.

dolores said...

Viv,
From Enfants Kidnappes 16th Feb.,

From the point of view of the media, nothing appears to be moving. Apart from the latest political twists in the case, the press has been deprived of information on the case. But the investigation continues. The PJ are searching for the body of Madeleine, since there is no longer any doubt, by the police, that she is dead. The police are actively seeking the second place where the body of Madeleine was placed and where, in all likelihood, it remains. Bear in mind that the police are perfectly aware of the first place where Madeleine’s body was stored. Thus, basing this on the GSM triangulations used by different parties involved in this case, the police are conducting excavations at specific locations. In fact, several large tracts of land are the subject of all the attention. Half of them have already been excavated. Entire dams have even been sounded with the aid of sonar. The police seem confident in their searches and if the body of the little girl was actually found, that would considerably change the facts of the case.

Atardi said...

hope4truth,

It was me Atardi.

I will read you tomorrow.

isis said...

goodnight all and may the coming week bring some justice for madeleine. Slán.

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Does anyone know if the sniffer dogs being used in Jersey are the same as those used at PDL?

Anonymous said...

YES EDDIE

dolores said...

I Cant Think of a Name,

Hi, I did not see it mentioned in this awful case,there is so much sadness around at the moment.
What on earth is wrong with society
today.

Atardi said...

icantthinkofaname

Maybe this one will help you.


Bodies of six children may be buried at abuse scandal orphanage
Last updated at 23:52pm on 24.02.08

Add your view


Police expect further grim discoveries at the former children's home where a skeleton was found at the weekend.

Sniffer dogs have led searchers to six more potential burial sites, both inside and outside the Victorian building.

All will have to be excavated inch by inch. Detectives are also studying plans of the building, as several of its cellars have been filled with concrete.

The horror at Haut de la Garenne, in Jersey, is emerging as the worst-ever child care scandal on British soil.

Scroll down for more...
Haut de la Garenne children's home in Jersey

Grim discovery: Police have found the remains of a children's body at the former Haut de la Garenne children's home in Jersey

Many youngsters who went to the institution - first opened as a home for the 'neglected' in 1867 - were orphaned or abandoned children with no one to notice if they simply disappeared. Staff at the home did not keep proper records of the children, possibly deliberately.

The discovery of the skeleton of a girl under seven inches of concrete followed the launch of a major inquiry into abuse at the home.
Jersey abuse pop-up
Enlarge the image

More than 140 people had already contacted police, claiming to have suffered assault, indecent assault and rape.

Sources say corporal punishment, flogging and solitary confinement in cells were 'routine' as part of a "systemic failure in childcare".

During interviews with victims, police began to suspect that bodies had been hidden at the home, which was used as a police station in the TV series Bergerac.

Three former residents independently told of friends suddenly disappearing. Jersey police called in the two sniffer dogs - both used in the Madeleine McCann inquiry - and ground-penetrating radar.

The skeleton was found in a corridor leading off a central courtyard. Among the remains, thought to date from the early 1980s, were a girl's hair clasp, a button and a piece of fabric.

The man heading the inquiry, Deputy Chief Officer Lenny Harper, said the discovery may be only "the tip of the iceberg".

Asked if he expected to find more bodies, he said: "There could be six or more. It could be higher than that. Half the sites are inside and half are outside.

"In each case the radar has tended to show some sort of disturbance under the ground where the dog has picked up the scent of something.

"We can't say it was homicide but much of the information we are receiving leads us to this fear."

Scroll down for more...
Haut de la Garenne children's home in Jersey

Archaelogists have been called in to study the remains

More than 1,000 children are thought to have lived in the 60-bed home, now a youth hostel, from the early 1950s until its closure in the mid-1980s.

Children from eight to 14 were sent there for various reasons. Many had special needs and came from broken or dysfunctional families, making tracing relatives an even tougher job.

There was also a secure unit for youngsters who had committed offences in Jersey.

When the home closed down, children were transferred to other institutions across Jersey where abuse continued until the early part of this decade.

The police inquiry began in secret and was made public only in November last year.

By then victims had been traced as far away as Australia and Thailand.

In January, Gordon Claude Wateridge, 76, was the first person to be charged in the inquiry. He is accused of indecently assaulting three girls under 16 between 1969 and 1979.

Police say they have a list of 40 suspects among former members of staff at the home, in St Martin, on the east coast of the Channel Island.

Deputy Chief Officer Harper said: "In common with many institutions back in the late 1940s and 50s, when children reported abuse from respected figures, adults tended to look at these claims very differently than they would do today."
Jersey Senator Stuart Syvret

Senator Stuart Syvret: Attacked Jersey's 'systemic failure in child care'

One man who campaigned fiercely for justice for the victims was Jersey Senator Stuart Syvret, who says he was sacked as the island's minister for health and social service for voicing his concerns.

He revealed how children were routinely punched in the head, flogged with birch canes and locked in solitary confinement for days or even weeks at a time.

Others suffered horrific sexual attacks which left them with deep psychological scars decades later.

Mr Syvret said: "Two victims I have been talking to have described a culture of violent assaults which they came to think was the norm.

"One was punched to the floor by a female member of staff who held her foot over his throat and screamed: 'You are scum of the earth.'

"Then there was the violent sexual attacks which many suffered.

"If it was a couple of instances it would be grave enough. But what makes it totally apocalyptic is that for decades there was the torture, neglect and malnourishment of children in care.

"For most of this time and for many years afterwards it was covered up and concealed. If it had been written as a script for Bergerac it would have been torn up as too extreme."

The biggest child abuse scandal uncovered so far happened in North Wales. The Waterhouse inquiry found widespread sexual abuse, mostly of boys, in Clwyd children's homes over 16 years.

Up to 650 youngsters are known to have been involved.

• Jersey is a British Crown dependency with an entirely separate legal system, its own police force and courts.

Scroll down for more...
sniffer dog Haut de la Garenne children's home in Jersey

On the case: Forensic sniffer dog Eddie at the former chidren's home in Haut de la Garenne

SNIFFER DOGS THAT MADE THE FIND

The horror of Haut de la Garenne was discovered thanks to the super-sensitive noses of two springer spaniels.

They sniffed out the human remains found on Saturday through seven inches of concrete, police said.

The dogs also pinpointed several other suspicious sites both inside and outside the former children's home.

The first spaniel, seven-year-old Eddie, is an 'enhanced' victim recovery dog specialising in detecting buried human blood, bones and flesh.

The second, Keela, has been trained to track down remains corresponding to microscopic blood traces. Only last year the two 'cadaver' dogs from South Yorkshire Police were in Portugal, taking part in the hunt for clues to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

They found specks of blood in the McCanns' apartment, and were used to conduct searches elsewhere in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.

Eddie has worked in Britain, Ireland and the U.S. earns fees of up to £500 a day. His skill is so rare that he is insured for £4.5million - and fed on salmon.


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Anonymous said...

This is worth a read if you want a good laugh

http://justice4mccannfam.blogspot.com/

Psychopops has screwed up big time and left a trail right to her pathetic little blog!

ICantThinkOfAName said...

Thanks for the replies re: sniffer dogs.

I can't better the comment that hobnob has made on yhe HYS of the DX article headed:

JERSEY POLICE HUNT FOR MORE BODIES

supertroll said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

If you want to see who nasty the so-called "Pros" are, check out their secret blog:

http://justice4mccannfam.blogspot.com/

There, they admit the nasty anonymous attacks on Alsabella and Viv's blogs and pat each other on the back. See them for what we have always known them to be. In their own words.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

This last anonymous coward is Tinkerbell. Psychopops told her to post anonymous.

felicity said...

Anon - thanks for the link to Psychopops blog where they slaver and drool about obnoxious they are to me and Alsabella - what a great advert for them.

Anytime I want to be repulsed I will call back.

I do wonder at them putting up pictures of the twins - this is surely against the McCanns wishes and somewhere for paedophiles to slaver and drool over these two little ones. Maybe it should have occurred to them these two little ones already had enough adverse publicity in their little lives. Would they want to grow up - see those pics of them on there and read some of the repulsive stuff the little witches coven have to say? I wonder... poor little loves - when are they going to get the privacy and the normal life they deserve?

What a horror in Jersey - thanks for bringing this to my attention. It is great that Eddie and Keela are once again doing a great job there, albeit a very gruesome one. These two dogs deserve medals for bringing wicked child killers to justice. I would love to cuddle them!

Viv x

alsabella said...

Hi Viv,

So you got a chance to see it too? So sad they are... did you notice 290 something attacks on us, by the same sad half a dozen people? Funny how they must find their own site so boring that they have to come look at our blogs and then feed theirs off their hatred for us...

Just hope they do not bite their tongue...they might just get poisoned by their own venom. Oh well, the least crappola on the earth, the better!

dolores said...

Viv Cara,
They would be psychiatric challenge,they all sound deeply disturbed,and the filthy langauge gives you an insight to their real personalities.
As for their non debatable gibberish,I thought it was a ward in 'One flew over the cuckoo's nest.'
They love coming here though,don't they.they can't keep away.
They have no class.Sad lot.

luv D xx

docmac said...

Hi all

Just got in a short while back and I was amazed to see that someone had tracked the dentured lot down. Well, as I have been continually abused by that bunch I decided to have a peek. I just got in and whoosh..cluck, all the comments on all the articles disappeared. Does that not sound familiar. I did pick up a couple of very interesting points before the cluck though. Too tired to point them out now, but will do so much later.

Good night if anyone is still about.

Anonymous said...

Hahahahahaha doc is right. Every single one of their nasty, childish, narcissistic little comments has gone! It's a bit like watching the DX.

Anyway who wanted to read 300 comments by the same six people, all clapping each other like bloody performing seals.

What a waste of cyberspace!

Psychopops, you can RUN but you can't HIDE. We WILL track you down, and so will the PJ!

Anonymous said...

This is what Tinkerballs thinks is doc's "sick" website.

http://www.paediatrician.co.za/AdvanPaed.asp?id=3

She don't know the bloody difference between a paediatrician and a paedophile! Hahahahahahaha!!!!!

isis said...

posted on the squatting site early this am, in response to a conversati WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE MEXICAN DID IN HIS HAT
25.02.08, 6:24am

Senor Pedro and Empty headed cat,
Kindly remove your inane banter to a Yahoo chat room

on between the pros

Anonymous said...

May God Forgive you & cleanse your evil minds

Niki said...

Nightmares

Thu Aug 9, 2007 8:09pm BST

"Many people have said to us that this is a parent's worst nightmare and it is, truly is and it's as bad as you can possibly imagine," Gerry said.

Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:25pm BST

When children have gone missing in the past -- Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman and Sarah Payne -- I've watched the news and thought, 'That is my worst nightmare'," she added.

"I had no idea how those mothers got through the day. But until you're in that situation, you can't even begin to imagine what it is that gets you out of bed and into the shower. You just have to go on."

10/09/2007 12:27

"They want me to lie. I am being framed," she was quoted as saying in the Sunday Mirror. "They are basically saying, ’If you confess Madeleine had an accident and that I panicked ... I’d get two or three years’ suspended sentence.’ It is ridiculous. The worst nightmare."

Copied from Reuters
----

Niki, 11.40

2345 said...

Viv & Everyone,

Eddie does it again - big time.
I heard about the gruesome discoveries on last night's news and was greeted this morning with a press photo of the fantastic dog. He's such an handsome intelligent looking dog and it's great to have his photo !

A truly astounding pooch; he quickly picked up the all telling scent in the house and found the first skull - dating back to the early 1980's within one hour. His abilities are utterly amazing - he's worth his weight in gold.

I've learned something new about his talents as "the highly trained animal was able to locate the remains even though they were buried under several inches of concrete".

I wonder whether the other dog being used is Keela; "there are two, one used to detect human remains and another to detect blood". Possibly the same pair as in Madeleine's case. 10.00 a.m.

2345 said...

Everyone,

The photo in today's press of Shannon's grief stricken mother is genuine and harrowing. 10.05 a.m.

2345 said...

niki,

Joana Capriano's father, like Kate, falsely accused the police of 'framing'.

The question is whether Kate's covering up for herself or Gerry.
Forensics apart, I read a very weird comment by Gerry on 3A's. Words to the effect that he and Kate had no suspicions about each other. They wouldn't have in the case of an abduction would they?
There would be no need to make such an odd remark.

What Gerry means is they trust each other in the cover up.10.10 p.m.

Niki said...

whops, don't know where my comments went!

Re my post "Nightmares"

Gerry needed many people to tell him to loose a child is a parents worst nightmare?!

Kate watched the news about missing children and was thinking ,this most be the worst nightmare, yet did'nt think what nightmares her three babies might have had when she left them alone night after night?!

So, the worst nightmare was to loose a child or be "framed"?

Niki

Niki said...

Hi 2345!
Thank you for your always interesting posts!
Have used all to much time reading the weekends comments at this site, I'll have a look again at 3A tonight. Have to run!
Niki

isis said...

have left a post for rosie on her blog , when i went to post it just says that post will only be shown after blog owners approval ???? Free speech and all that , i left my id and did not post under anon as i have nothing to hide.

Anonymous said...

I have not viewed the McNasty Trolls blog and thank others for making us aware of it and some of the content. What a complete and utter bunch of idiots they are. Poor little M having that lot post in her name, if anyone of them is related to her I feel so sorry for that poor little child having the likes of that as her relatives.

2345, Eddie and Keela truly remarkable. What a coincidence all articles on M suddenly disappearing and one of these two dogs is involved in a UK case and being highly praised for their skills. No wonder you get such a hard time from the McNasty Trolls. Wonder what is on the horizon?

Zodiac

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED THE TROLLS.

2345 said...

Viv,

Forgot to say thank you for last two articles. Hope you and your son are well. 10.50 p.m.

2345 said...

Zodiak,

Given the unjustified slating of both cadavers and Police in this case, I'm absolutely delighted that Eddie's truly remarkable skills have received the good publicity he richly deserves, along with his Police handlers.

The Jersey case is a real horror story. Heaven only knows the childrens' suffering behind closed doors. Well done Eddie for unearthing the gruesome truth AGAIN. 11.00 a.m.

2345 said...

niki,

Good question ! Joano Capriano's father tried and failed to blame the police for framing him. In the Report of the case provided on 3 A's by tylersmum (thread - Do They Have Enough Evidence) - the mother's lack of grief over her child's disappearance - noticed by many villagers - raised early suspicions.

Interestingly, like Kate she also appealed for her daughter's return after her death and disposal.
11.10 p.m.

ratonthebeam said...

Anon
Viv might not be able to display photos but she can at least spell "Madeleine".
rat 11:10 GMT

ratonthebeam said...

Psychopops left some of her inane comments still visible here

Even if she bothers hiding them now, the horse has well and truly bolted!!! The world can see her for what she REALLY is. God help poor wee Madeleine with the likes of that "defending" her.

rat 11:34 GMT

I am not ashamed to put my name to anything I write!

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

loz22 said...

Just been reading over a report on the mccann files, its brilliant, you may have read it already but it points out loads of interesting facts. "On one bed lay the twins and on the other lay cuddle cat". When Gerry and Kate were leaving Portugal he phoned Sky News,"We're going home on an Easy Jet flight, be on it! Gerry, "If i talk I live under threat of two years imprisonment, the same sentence for disposing of a childs body". How did he know that? Did he do some research on it? http://www.mccannfiles.com/id63.html

loz22 said...

sorry, forgot to mention its under vanity fair interview

dolores said...

Hello to everyone,
Aother red herring.


DORSET Police are playing down an alleged sighting of missing Madeleine McCann in the county.
Alan Cameron, a retired civil servant, claims the toddler turned up at his house in Stratton, three miles north-west of Dorchester.
Sunday newspapers reported the child matching Madeleine's description arrived in the care of a Portuguese couple, who had come to buy some garden furniture advertised locally.
A Dorset Police spokesperson said: "We are grateful for the call but there is nothing at this time to suggest this is the missing girl.
"Enquiries are continuing to finalise this."

ratonthebeam said...

Dorset Sighting already discussed on Alsabella's blog -

2345 said...
Alleged Dorset Sighting,

Coincidentally by Mr Cameron, a Scottish name ....

25 February 2008 11:12


ratonthebeam said...
2345,

Would that be as in Trish Cameron, Gerry's sister in law?

rat 11:18 GMT

25 February 2008 11:18


ratonthebeam said...
He also must be very smart if he knew for a fact they were speaking Portuguese, and not Spanish or Italian......

rat 11:29 GMT

25 February 2008 11:29

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
isis said...

Good morning all, well i have just had a peek at rosies blog and to be quite honest i am just like dyl was yesterday,i am truly hurt and upset. The number of times my name has been mentioned in the comments section on all articles is amazing. There was practicaly a vote to see would i be let join the blog, the general conscensus was that i was 2/3/4/5 faced because i opsted here and on the 3a and alsabellas. I didnt think there was anythin wrong with posting on all 3 and didnt realise there was an exclusitivity clause .At least i post under my name. There are those on rosies who openly brag as to posting as anon. I am truly hurt and upset. I dont usually cry but today is an exception. As MUM 21 says mabey i should stick to the piano.

ratonthebeam said...

Isis

Take no notice. Do you really want to part of that horrid, nasty little schoolgirl gang of thugs anyway? Led by the master little thug from the Southside (you can take the boy out of Govenhill, as they say....) Take no notice. Or look on it as a rite of passage! We've all been there. Keep posting here!

rat 12:18 GMT

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

Anonymous said...

May God fogive you and cleanse your evil minds

isis said...

daer anon, i went to her blog to have a look and im glad i did. Feel free to post all the comments i made there if you wish as i hve nothing to hide. I was defending things that were said about me on a personal level and am entitled to post on any blog i care to.

isis said...

thanks ratty, but i am genuinely upset . Thanks for your support but i never was any good at dealing with cowardly bullies,espescially those who hide behind a keyboard and will not show themselves.

ratonthebeam said...

Isis

if you don't face your fears, they don't go away by themselves. You will survive! You are better than them. Go take a break for a bit, play your piano or something, then come back. We will wait for you!
rat 12:28 GMT

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

Anonymous said...

ROTB

I had a look at your link regarding the McNasty Trolls. What a bunch of saddo's. Wonder if the McNasty Trolls will discuss the Jersey Childrens Home and the magnificent sniffer dog that helped uncover the gruesome reality of events. The same dog being highly praised for it it's skills, the same dog that was also used in PDL for the M invesigation. The truth can never be stifled, it will always find a way to reveal itself.

Zodiac 12.30 hrs

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED THE TROLLS.

ratonthebeam said...

Zodiac

Yeah, Eddie is pretty amazing. It said there were two dogs, perhaps the other one is Keela. The same combo that detected all the evidence in Praia da Luz. Of course, they were confused by rotting chickens and Pampers in Portugal, but not in Jersey; obviously they must sell different stuff in Baptista than they do in Tesco.

The dogs are truly amazing creatures, but not quite as amazing as some of the double standards applied to their work!

rat 12:41 GMT

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

loz22 said...

janegt from norman bates blog has said that Shannon Mathews family seem dysfunctional.So are we to believe that its okay for those on normans site to criticise the families of Shannon and Jamie Bulger etc but everyone must lay off criticising the mccanns. I wonder why this is and i wonder why they want to drag the other families into this.

2345 said...

lozz22,

A man living on Britain's south coast was recently jailed for 7 years for shaking his baby to death. He didn't waste Police time or pervert the course of justice after the child's death.

To the best of my knowledge the Government did not involve itself in this case, nor it delay Police procedures. 12.45 p.m.

12.34 p.m.

2345 said...

lozz22,

Well said ... dysfunctional or not the press photo of Shannon's mother shows genuine, palpable grief. Head bowed, she's clearly not publicity seeking or acting for the camera.

Given her address and lowly status, Social Services would have met her and her husband off the plane if they had been in the McCanns shoes !!! 1.50 p.m.

loz22 said...

2345 I cant think of any cases (but im sure there will be some) where the government has become so involved to such an extent. I wonder if any of us would be granted the services of our government should we be in need of assistance while abroad. I didnt realise consular assistance went this far or is it only for the priveleged few.

ratonthebeam said...

The last case I can think of even remotely similar was the Greek plane spotters, and the Consular assistance was nothing like what the McCanns received.

rat 12:57 GMT

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

loz22 said...

So it makes you wonder even more why such assistance (and how speedy it was ) be offered to a couple who neglected there abducted daughter as was first believed when government became involved

dolores said...

Hello,
I had an email this morning from Anthony Bennett.Can you pass it round please.
Please click on the link below to confirm your signature on the
petition at the bottom of this email.

The petition was created by Anthony Bennett and reads:

'We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Bring in a
new law to make it a criminal offence to leave children aged
under 12 on their own.'

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/no-to-neglect/BD6DOIEC76vUDpNOqxAN6qP

xx D 13.03

2345 said...

lozz22/ROTB,

I doubt there's been anything like it before in criminal history and political history. Absolutely unprecedent and PJ have my utmost sympthy and support. IMO the ramifications of Brown's interference in this case will be a nail in his political coffin. Bliar poked his nose in at the outset, I read somewhere - 3 A's I think. 1.10 p.m.

Anonymous said...

How Janegt can suggest that anyone is dysfuntional is a laugh. She should go back and read her DE posts, muddled up nonesense. I see she wanted Big_L to join their club. I think he has more sense than she obviously credits him with.

Zodiac 13.08 hrs

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED TROLLS.

loz22 said...

I wonder what assistance Shannons mother is having. Somehow i cant see pr men/ spokespersons etc queing at her door. I hope her little girl is found soon, safe and well.

RATONTHEBEAM said...

I wish I'd kept the Christmas Day dialogue between her and LGC. Now that was dysfunctional! And then Rosie waded in to assist. On Christmas Day, too - you'd think she would have had better things to do, like playing with her grandchildren / his twins or something.

rat 13:18 GMT

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

2345 said...

Zodiak/ROTB,

I've absolutely no desire or intention of visiting dark places such as troll's site. I notice some have and I can picture one sitting on his own talking to himself posting away under lots of different names !!!

Seems Eddie's celebrity has put troll's nose well out of joint today. The TRUTH will always out.1.20 p.m.

Anonymous said...

That jane is a poor alcoholic.

loz22 said...

2345
Good old Eddie. Actually i was at my local dog pound last week and there was a woman who was refused a dog because they thought she was "unsuitable". Maybe they thought she would neglect it or something.

loz22 said...

2345
Good old Eddie. Actually i was at my local dog pound last week and there was a woman who was refused a dog because they thought she was "unsuitable". Maybe they thought she would neglect it or something.

2345 said...

lozz22,

News coverage about her disappearance included her good neighbours and friends. I think Shannon's family are part of a caring, close knit community. Poor soul; our 12 year old daughter didn't return one day after a walk with our dog. We live in the country, and went out in search. As darkness fell, I phoned the Police, by which stage I was barely coherent. Thank God and heaven above she arrived on the doorstop shortly afterwards. She been trapped in the corner of a field by a herd of pushy cows.

Shannon's mother has my utmost sympthay; not knowing's enough to drive a person insane with worry.
1.30 p.m.

2345 said...

lozz22,

I'm glad to hear it ! Dogs originate from pack animals and each breed has characteristics. The instinct in terriers to hunt makes them much harder work than, say, a labrador/retriever. Lots of people who want to own dog seldom consider the 'blood' or needs of the animal. I didn't realize until today that Eddie is a spaniel, the breed favoured for 'sniffing out' drugs.

My twin sister rescued a dog a few years back and went through a vigorous suitability procedure; her home, her personality etc. I'm glad those who rescue dogs take such good measures. Like vulnerable little children, they can't voice their unhappiness behind closed doors, can they?
1.40 p.m.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
2345 said...

isis,

Sadly, the whole purpose of their exercise is to upset you. It's standard practice and best ignored. They're worth nothing; you have feelings, they do not.

As ROTB wisely says -

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

1.45 p.m.
their pro

dolores said...

anonymous
The comments have not been vile,until you turned up.
Why such blatent lies.Stay on the trolls site, best place for you.

loz22 said...

2345
exactly and it is not the childs fault if they have a dysfunctional family or not. Each child deserves to be protected equally and not on the status of their parents

southerncross said...

Good afternoon
ISIS, please don't let those paranoid posters get you down. I started to post on this blog, and because I happen to be Afrikaans speaking, poor docmac was accused of me being him or vice versa by a certain poster and a few anonymous ones as well.Even copies conversations I had with docmac to their poisonous blogs.

Actually makes one question their motives and degree of paranoid delusions.
Why it is so important to them to discredit anyone that does not share their views, is beyond belief.

I actually feel quite flattered to be mistaken as docmac's alter ego, as I am sure readers will note that docmac is much more eloquent and has a much better command of the English language than myself.(lol)
Furthermore,I don't even know docmac personally,I just happen to know he lives in South Africa

So, please let the abuse on the other blog just roll off your shoulders

Anonymous said...

What an awful comment to make, that Shannon's family seems dysfunctional. It goes to show you how much they actual do worry about the plight of missing children's family...zilch! their only concern is for the McCann family. We would not want to upset the status quo,now, would we?

Truly truly sad...

Anonymous said...

2345

My impression of a McNasty Troll also. Sitting all alone sending a post to an alter ego then sadly replying to it. The true colours have been shown on that site, embarrassing for them, it. All of those named on that blog cannot expect any respect from decent posters. Poor Madeleine having them using her name, pretending they care about her.
Zodiac 14.17pm

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED THE TROLLS.

2345 said...

Kodiak,

I've just learned from Alsa's blog how the link became available - hilarious - head troll apparently posted the link on this site. As the saying goes - what goes around comes around ...... 2.35 p.m.

Anonymous said...

My post of 14.17pm should read: All of those named on that blog with abusive posts.

Zodiac

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED THE TROLLS.

loz22 said...

what a shame that the express put the oscars on the front page and not that of poor Shannon Mathews. There is a hys on Shannon with 5 comments only, bless her. I am still banned from express otherwise would leave a message of support. I think everyone should.

Anonymous said...

2345

Sometimes I feel sorry for them. I see Calcite still not accepting Eddie. I read on alsabella's site she said dogs were searching woods in Canada and got no results. She/he did not state which type of dogs. One can only assume if they were cavader dogs, then maybe there was no scent of death to detect or if they were search dogs the scent stopped at a certain point. Eddie has shown today how reliable he is, there is no doubt and never has been for me that Eddie and Keela know what they are doing. Have you looked at the youtube video there definition of a McNasty Troll. The names Psychpops,Dopeyalawaroy,Sassyp,Tinker,Jane,Helen,Maureen,Mandz et al all spring to mind when viewing.

Zodiac 14.45pm

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED THE TROLLS

Anonymous said...

Furthermore,I don't even know docmac personally,I just happen to know he lives in South Africa

So, please let the abuse on the other blog just roll off your shoulders

Monday, February 25, 2008 5:43:00 AM PST

You must think all people are as thick as you notdoc.
Not very good at hiding even under anon. Play nicely now !

Anonymous said...

We simply do not have the information we need to evaluate in order reach a rational and judicious conclusion on the matter. So along with prayer, a little more of what Keats called “negative capability”, please: the capacity “of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts without any irritable reaching after fact and reason.”
Debate with respect for all others

Please pray for Madeleine & all missing children........
Kim

felicity said...

Hi all

thanks again for all your interesting posts almost.

I see on the Pro-McCann blog they have tried to emulate this site, posting articles for people to comment on. There is one about Metodo 3 and Mum 21 has this to say:

"I am not too sure about them at all. I begin to wonder if they are worth the money they are costing.
But then I could be wrong and their success so far is being kept quiet and hidden behind their spin. They could be trying to make themselves look hopeless to confuse the PJ."

This is one of just three posts under this article. Surely we have to agree they are not worth the money they are costing! But there is something very sinister about her suggestion they keep their success so far "hidden". Their purpose is simple to find Madeleine, ostensibly..is this yet another serious slip where they admit that actually they have some other purpose? The suggestion they keep quiet and try to confuse the PJ by looking utterly hopeless is really extraordinary! Would it not be more reasonable to say they seek to provide the PJ with amusement or more sinisterly diversion from the real task in hand.

March seems to be a very important month in the McCann campaign. Psychopops has been promising the McCanns will return to Portugal in March to damage Portugal's tourist industry - pure malevolence perhaps? Where does Psychopops get this information from? It also coincideds with the annnouncements the fixed terms contract with the Retardos expires/comes up for review on this date. I have mentioned before, why did they enter into such a lengthy fixed term contract if the hope was they would find Madeleine - surely the contract should have been with a fixed aim in mind - it would run until they produced the desired result?

As the PJ are undoubtedly due to arrive here very soon, are the McCanns lawyers actually negotiating their return in March for voluntary questioning to try and continue the spin for this couple? That they are innocent..that they have done nothing wrong. From a PR point of view what would be the best - the PJ having to come here and force them to answer question or the McCanns belatedly agreeing to go back and do so?

I am not saying for one moment they actually are going to start co-operating now but clearly they are getting very desperate and just flag this up as a possibility by looking at all of their spin.

Viv x

hope4truth said...

Isis

Bully's allways stick together it is because they have no friends in the real world and have to make themselves look important to bigger bully's just ignore them.

As we said last night if Madeleine turns up we would be delighted pleased to be proved wrong about her parents and in my case I would hope to god they realise that neglecting children is wrong and they would never be so selfish again.

I would also hope and pray that the poor child has not been scarred for life from whatever treatment the sick pervert that took her put her through...

They are defending the neglect of 3 very small children... Mum21 was so pleased to report the stupid bitches who go to her salon would or have done the smae thing most normal people would be ashamed to admit that neglect is fine. Maureen was allways running to Dozzy to tell her just how she had stuck the knife in that day like she wanted a pat on the head.

This is about a 3 year old child who was not protected by her parents and is now missing. If her parents had not carried on the holiday and had scripts written for them to explain how they are feeling and just been genuine grief stricken parents they would not be in the position they are in now...

Dont let them get to you it is what they want the last time one of them did it to me they said I was not doing well by the people I represent and my friends would think bad of me...

Sad cow I represent me and I like a lot of people who I post to but have not made freinds with any yet as I have plenty in the real world goes to show they dont...

Madeleine is the only thing that matters they can all go to hell....

They are secretly posting each other everything here is open that says it all really...

Isis enjoy your bank holiday...

I am off see you later x 16.03

isis said...

hi viv, is that the reason so for all the articles disappearing from the DE. how close do you think the mc canns are to returning to portugal or the pj coming to the uk

2345 said...

Zodiak,

The dogs in the American cases were untrained ! Eddie's abilities and track record speak for themselves. I've just read on 3 A's that team Eddie/Keela have been used in over 200 cases and successful in each. Hence the fear level in camp McCann.

To use duff dogs in USA in an effort to question Eddie's/Keelers accuracy and FSS results on file, is as stupid as pointing the finger at an untrained US cop to undermine the expertise of highly trained British Police !

It simply reinforces the McCanns' guilt doesn't it ? The parents of Sarah Payne & Sohom schoolgirls thanked the Police for their work and results. The McCanns ran ....
and are not inclined to return !!!

They've made themselves a public menace in the process. 4.15 p.m.

2345 said...

Kim,

Very sadly, we do. It's standard practice in Britain for the Police to act in the public's best interest. This includes releasing certain information at critical stages of criminal investigations, as they did with the disappearance of a British child in Luz, Madeleine. On this basis, BBC despatched Jane Hill to Luz for live report on breaking news on 7 September - day parents were interviewed and named 'arguidos'.
Verbatim transcript of broadcast outside the Police Station is :

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray .. commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx .. some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck and fractured skull". Also "Sousa himself told of this very fine mist of spray that was found in the apartment". This information was released once, that night.

It appears you missed the news that night and I apologize to those who've read it before.

Madeleine would not have survived the profoundly traumtic injuries indicated as Emergency Services were not called on 2nd or 3rd May.

We pray for Madeleine's soul, for the expertize of the Police and all others who have worked tirelessly on her behalf. We trust those responsible for her untimely demise are brought to justice. She had the same right to life as those who ended her own - whoever it may be. 4.25p.m.

RATONTHEBEAM said...

Latest update on those poor little kids in Jersey here, and it is the Eddie/Keela combo that is being used.

"The remains found at Haut de la Garenne on Saturday were detected by a sniffer dog through several inches of concrete."

I don't see anyone trashing Eddie and Keela's abilities now, except perhaps only the most deluded....

Wish I could slip those beautiful, smart creatures a hug and a bonio!

rat 16:33 GMT

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

Anonymous said...

2345

200 cases and successful in each. A success rate like that yet when it comes to Madeleine we are expected to consider the dogs are unreliable. If it was the other way around, and the DNA & forensics were discovered in R Murat's, his girfriend's, the Russian guy etc's home or car then these dogs would be wonderful. I saw and heard the Jane Hill report also, if this was not considered real evidence surely it would have to be retracted.

Zodiac 16.38 hrs

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED TROLLS.

2345 said...

Zodiak,

I agree entirely. The McCanns took no action against the FSS information broadcast, which confirms they had no legal grounds on which to contest it. This, in turn, confirms their guilt.

IF no damning forensic evidence existed they would obviously have cleared their names months back to remove their prime suspect status.


The McCanns' behaviour, irrespective of evidence always supports guilt, never innocence.

"Those who play the game cannot see .... " Old Chinese Proverb.

4.50 p.m.

isis said...

zodiac, thats agood point. If all the evidence supported an abduction theory instead of pointing the finger close to home im sure the pj would be the best in the world and the forensics beyond doubt. However it is the other way around and i am sure that no judge would have given an extension to the pj if he/she did not feel that the investigation was progressing along a definate line.

dolores said...

Hi Viv
I found this article from the Daily Mail October edition.As a refresher,for those who missed it.


Keela and Eddie are indeed the most amazing dogs ever, we should e so proud to have such wonderful animals, not to mention the handlers training abd belief in them.
xx D 17.02

DON'T GIVE TROLLS A VOICE.


From the Dail Mail last October
British detectives have been asked to investigate the backgrounds of Kate and Gerry McCann.
Police in Strathclyde are to dig into the couple's university days 20 years ago and contact former friends and colleagues from their time in Scotland, where they first met.
Detectives in Portugal hope the probe might uncover something in the McCanns' past which could shed light on the case, the Sunday Mirror reported.
Police are going to look into Gerry and Kate McCann's past including their university years
The request - made via Europol - was part of the root-and-branch review of the case ordered by its new head, Paulo Rebelo, and the first interviews could be carried out next week.
Strathclyde police refused to comment but a source told the newspaper: 'It's a back-to-basics check. We've been asked to trawl the backgrounds of the McCanns to build up a full picture of their lives right back to university.

Anonymous said...

2345

I agree they would be demanding that the BBC retract their statement.
Not forgetting that the PJ were in the UK twice before the Dec. 07 visit. Team McC were taken unawares with this visit and I presume the two before. Remember the Tapas lot, they all had to meet at a hotel for a get together.
For all we know the PJ could be in the UK already, interviewing or preparing to do so. Would this be public knowledge. The withdrawal of all the Madeleine articles from the newspapers is very strange. Psychopops saying the McC's were preparing for a visit to Portugal was it 18/03/08 (how would Psychopops know this!), is this another they are returning of their own free will or we have no choice but we have to try and fool the gullible.

Anonymous said...

2345,
Post of 9:05:00AM is from Zodiac, I forgot to put my name.

I CHOOSE NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

dylan said...

Oh dear Isis,

I am so sorry they have started on you now. I know how that feels.

After having had time to reflect, I see it as a compliment, really, that they see us as such a threat - all that & we haven't even been abusive to them! (must be our intelligence, wit & being very close to the mark!)

Welcome to the VIP club;))))

I see they have been dragging up the the poor Bulgers again and now this poor family of Shannon's.

Double standards, bigotry and filth.
Now if people like that considered you or me as a "friend", I WOULD be upset!

Got to now. Back later & chin up honey.

Dylan xxx

Anonymous said...

Isis,
Exactly. Why would a Judge give the PJ an extension? There is no evidence to support abduction, therefore I do not consider this as a possibility. When someone tells the truth, it does not change from what was originally said, the truth is the truth.
I read how you had been upset by comments on the McNasty site, do not let them get to you they are not worth it, Justice for a little innocent child is far more important and you are entitled to your views and where you want to post them.

Zodiac 17.18HRS

I CHOOSE NOT TO FEED THE TROLLS.

felicity said...

Hiya Isis, Dillie and Zodiac

Isis - I entirely agree with ~Dillie, they only bother with people they consider are a serious threat to their perverted campaign of lies and misinformation, so getting a mention is a credit to your intellect and analytical ability. Notice they repeatedly refer to "Vile's blog". If we were not seriously bothering them they would not need to keep trying to post here and non stop discussing on their sick little rant forum - where they seek to boost their low self-esteem calling themselves "the famous five". Psychopops even comments how excellant supertroll is! That says it all!

On a more serious note - the Portuguese have an investigative system and at all stages of the process an examining judge will consider the evidence gathered to see whether the police are proceeding in the right direction and using resources wisely by pursuing the matter. On 3rd January he proclaimed that they were and gave them authority to proceed with further interviews and obtaining exhibits to be actually produced in a trial. The fact that the PJ now want to seise the actual diary confirms this matter is definitely going to trial. Further, judges are very rational people, they will cast a critical eye over the case, if it would all be a waste of time because there is insufficient evidence it would be rejected. Clearly it has not been and I do believe the case is now sub judice and subjected to very limited reporting for fear of prejudicing any trial. Newspapers can be prosecuted for printing details about a case that is to proceed to trial. The Daily Mirror printed adverse comments about an ongoing case concerning some famous footballers insisting their violent attack was racially motivated. This caused the trial to collapse for fear of unfairness to the footballers and at a cost of millions a fresh trial had to be listed. The Daily Mirror were hit with massive fines.

In regard to the Daily Express forum, I believe there is also the issue of the paper being brought into disrepute. Sometimes a read of that forum constituted nothing more than vitriolic abuse of other posters. I can recall an entire weekend being spent attacking me in January and other posters on there who they were insisting was me. The childish silly rubbish reads like a 9 year olds chat forum. Whilst there would be no concern of these idiots causing unfairness to the McCanns trial, there is clearly the issue of the reputation of the Daily Express itself by allowing them to continue. There is some force in the argument that this was a deliberate campaign to stop another very large forum that was, in the main, supporting the police case against the McCanns. Having done that they are now attacking my own and Alsabella's blogs - leaving no stone unturned. I think I know Alsabella well enough to say that just like me she will be resolute in opposing these dark forces and no matter who they say about us, these blogs, supporting the police case and Justice for Little Madeleine will continue.

There is a further fundamental issue at stake here - the right to free speech - it is wrong that nasty little trolls seek to curtail it and this must not be allowed to happen. They know people are sensitive to their vile remarks. They have upset me deeply on many occasions but I think now I have learned to just laugh at their pathetic attempts and see their attention for what it is - a great compliment!

Viv x

isis said...

zodiac, thanks. As for the truth ,well that is very sparse on the tapas7 front. It is clear that from the onset the people contacted by the mc canns were told individually that the shuttere had been interfered with ,so there was no possibility of chinese whispers along the way. Speaking on gmtv jill renwick said as much. My biggest problem is with o briens absence from the table for a large part of the evening.

2345 said...

Zodiak,

I'm sure the British Police will not release anything further. I respect their intelligence in that the broadcast on 7 September was a public to the McCanns raising and accepting £1.3 m under false preteneces. FSS information confirmed Madeleine died in her parents' apartment and, therefore, a search for her alive was not required.

I'm so chuffed that Eddie & Keela at long last have press coverage of their unique abilities and success. They've also been unable to defend themselves against the anti cadaver/forensic brigade.

I'll keep my eye on the news for any more discoveries the famous duo help unearth in Jersey and will keep you posted. 5.55 p.m.

2345 said...

Viv,

Thank you for your wisdom and information in your last post.
It's a pleasure to be part of your Forum and your work in face of opposition is deeply appreciated.

Those who have been subjected to psychological abuse have been strengthened in resolve; we are able to help others who have experienced it for the first time.
United we stand ..... 6.05 p.m.

felicity said...

2345

Thanks for flagging up the importance of Eddie and Keela the 800 EUROS an hour superdogs!

Everyone that has produced evidence against the McCanns get the treatment dont they, even a couple of beautiful and higly trained dogs with a fantastic success rate. There has been nothing subtle about the attacks on Goncalo Amaral/ the PJ where Pscyhopops etc had hoped that everyone was just as racist as him. The attack on Leicester Police was much more subtle. They had national pride to deal with... The demands for an independent review by Scotland Yard seeking to portray them as some sort of superforce who investigate and oversee others - this was completely false. We do not need any review by Scotland Yard there are already two excellant police forces involved in this case - they may not be heading in the right direction so far as the McCanns are concerned, nevertheless they know exactly what they are doing!

Viv x

hope4truth said...

Hi Viv

I think the fact that they have been e mailing each other for months and now have a secret blog that is not so secret now says it all really...

They tried to break people on the DX and once I realised there are really nasty deranged people out there that dont give a damn about Madeleine and have to be right and not questioned although I was disapointed I became tough and stayed far longer than I would have done but would not be beaten by a bully...

I am not ashamed of anything I have written and would say the same thing if taken to court over any of it. I wonder if they can say the same defending neglect shows that to them children are unimportant as long as no one asks any awkward questions...

Choosing not to feed trolls is a good plan but at least the sad gits get a chance to post here even though they are to ashamed of what they are saying to put a name to their trash leave their posts here so everyone can see what vile desprate people they are...

I wont be visiing their blog had more than enough of their rubbish on the DX let them all praise dozzy and enjoy agreeing with each other as I said the other day the death penelty debate on here had very diffrent views but we discussed it calmly and did not have to insult each other to make our point...

18.10

ratonthebeam said...

Eddie has found another six possible gravesites.

See here...

Absolutely gorgeous picture of Eddie at the bottom. He is doing very well in helping get closure for the souls of these poor wee mites.

rat 18:17 GMT

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

felicity said...

Hiya Hope 4 and 2345

Yes we are kind hearted and sensitive people so will become upset by their vile abuse and they most certainly did seek to mob people who they had decided to attack on the DE having had a little secret email conference about their next line of attack. I have been subjected to it since last October so have learned to toughen up now.

As you say there were diverse views on the death penalty, chemical castration of paedophiles etc but dealt with an adult and academic way, respecting other people's differing points of view - a true debate!

Other people's views help us to form our own, when they are reasonably and intelligently presented. I think we are all agreed that the manner in which the McCann campaign has been dealt with has had a disastrous effect upon the public's perception of the McCanns and their supporters - we see them for precisely what they are - very unpleasant and abusive people, prepared to lie and deceive. This gives credence to the police view the McCanns did indeed kill little Madeleine and heartlessly dispose of her body, to save their own hide. Their vile campaign will be part of the evidence against them. Even a guilty couple would have been well advised to just keep quiet - what we have seen is the most desperate and criminal conspiracy to try and win back public sympathy - there is no sympathy for Kate and Gerry McCann, after everything we have seen and heard since last September they do not deserve it. They both know exactly what happened to Madeleine but rather than wishing to confess the truth, they have just continued to act in their adopted role - a couple of desperate lying child abusing criminals wanting to get rich and get away with what they did to their own little girl. They are not going to.

Viv x

felicity said...

Thanks so much to the link about Eddie going into action again to find poor murdered little children - how horrific. Thought I would extract the bit highlighting the same superdog found the traces of poor little Maddie:
Three former residents independently told of friends suddenly disappearing. Jersey police called in the two sniffer dogs - both used in the Madeleine McCann inquiry - and ground-penetrating radar.


The skeleton was found in a corridor leading off a central courtyard. Among the remains, thought to date from the early 1980s, were a girl's hair clasp, a button and a piece of fabric.


The man heading the inquiry, Deputy Chief Officer Lenny Harper, said the discovery may be only "the tip of the iceberg".


Asked if he expected to find more bodies, he said: "There could be six or more. It could be higher than that. Half the sites are inside and half are outside.


"In each case the radar has tended to show some sort of disturbance under the ground where the dog has picked up the scent of something.


"We can't say it was homicide but much of the information we are receiving leads us to this fear."

What a fantastic animal - wouldnt you just love to cuddle him and say well done fella!

Luv Viv x

Anonymous said...

Flic,
you have just posted the best libel post to date.
So how do you know they lying child abusing criminals, you see you try to hard to get the upper hand and now you have dealt it.
This has been sent to the appropriate people, and you say you were in law. I don't think so what an ediot you are.

felicity said...

I have contempt for a person who does not address me by my name, leaves no name, again seeks to threaten and cannot even spell idiot!

Go and have another little rant with your alter egos on your sad little blog!

Viv x

ratonthebeam said...

Troll alert, people!

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

felicity said...

Hiya Rat,

Point taken

Vivxxxxxxxx

hope4truth said...

Rat

You really make me laugh ...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The poem old bitch is definately fucked. She is the only one stupid enough to say who she really is.

25 February 2008 04:46

Flic, this is you and yours nice comments returned.
Why not put your name on it vivvy pivvy we know its yours Coventry coward.

dolores said...

Hi Viv
I am posting this email I recieved from Anthony Bennett.And have sent many emails to friends and family.To raise the importance of protecting children from abusive parents,to neglect a child is abuse of that child's human rights. And I am hoping all our UK posters do likewise,as I believe it is only UK residents who can sign.
The cowardly troll cannot see that there is something seriously wrong with a society who defends child abuse/neglect They have told lies as we have read in all the press,changing stories consistantly is lying where come from.
And finally prime suspects are criminals.They committed a crime = criminals.

xx D 19.33

Dear Dolores,
23 February 2008
Please could you visit the Prime Minister’s website and support my new petition on child neglect by clicking on this link. It will take you just 2-3 minutes to add your name. It's attracted 105 signatures in just 12 days. We want to make it at least 1,000 signatures as soon as we can, so as to really make an impact on the topical subject of young children being left on their own.
The petition is very short for simplicity. In practice, the law would have to be framed in terms of 'for an unreasonable length of time' and 'having regard to all the circumstances, including the age and understanding of the child' etc.
I'll be bringing you up-to-date with other matters soon
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/no-to-neglect/
Then please forward this e-mail to as many other contacts of yours as you feel able to.
I’d be grateful.
Thanks very much.
Tony Bennett
01279 635789

Anonymous said...

janetj is abollox she defenitly has a drink problem.such a load of sh~~t she produced on dx.keep up the good work viv alsa etc.

dolores said...

Viv,
This is the correct website address for the petition.
XX D 19.50


http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/no-to-neglect/BD6DOIEC76vUDpNOqxAN6qP



DON'T GIVE TROLLS A VOICE.

Niki said...

Has Britain gone overboard for missing Madeleine?

Fri Jun 15, 2007 By Luke Baker

LONDON (Reuters) - For weeks, day in, day out, the media have followed every twist and turn of the hunt for Madeleine.

Tabloid and broadsheet newspapers have plastered pictures of the blonde-haired, wide-eyed child on their front pages, and news channels have carried live updates several times every hour from the crime scene in southern Portugal.

But even as a Web site set up to track the saga announced it had received an astonishing 55 million hits, there was evidence that public opinion, while strongly supportive of the child's distraught parents Kate and Gerry McCann, was growing alarmed at what it viewed as relentless, almost prurient coverage.

"(It's) absurdly over the top and cannot have served the interests of the family or the eventual cause of justice," wrote commentator Simon Jenkins in the Guardian newspaper.

"To suggest that this might not be a good way of finding a missing child is clearly spitting in the wind ... Journalists may have cooked the McCann story to a burnt crisp."

Since the death of Princess Diana in 1997 provoked an outpouring of national grief, Britain has tended to get wrapped up in coverage of its own tragedies, particularly when they concern children.

The murder of two 10-year-old girls in the town of Soham in August 2002 produced weeks of wall-to-wall television.

But the disappearance of Madeleine McCann appears to have raised the term "blanket coverage" to a whole new level, prompting the dispatch of vast teams of reporters to the small town of Praia da Luz, where every scrap of information, whether fact or rumour, is picked over minutely.

Even when there has been no news to report, broadcasters and Web sites have kept the story rolling, throwing up the "breaking news" tag for even the smallest development.

Satellite broadcaster Sky ran a banner saying "Latest pictures of 'Team McCann' campaign headquarters", showing supporters of the family opening envelopes.

Footballers, politicians, pop stars and authors have all jumped into the fray, offering money to support the family's hunt for their daughter, opining about what may or may not have happened, and wondering if the Portuguese police made mistakes.

SATURATION POINT

"The danger is that the coverage becomes so saturated that it's counter-productive," Max Clifford, Britain's foremost public relations guru, told Reuters.

"It's not that people aren't sympathetic, it's just that they begin to get sick of it all when there's no new news."

Speaking on radio this week, Matthew Parris, a former politician and now a commentator for the Times, expressed disgust at the unseemly outpouring, particularly from politicians. Rather than criticism, he received praise.

"I actually believe the majority of people are sick of the media feeding frenzy and the 'jumping on of bandwagons' that has been witnessed in the last fortnight," Andy Jones, a member of the public from central England, wrote on a BBC Web site, one of nearly 300 to respond to Parris's comments.

"A little girl is missing -- very sad. I wonder if the media's perception of the whole case might be different if she wasn't white and from a very obviously white middle-class background."

In some instances, the press has actively driven the story, creating its own maelstrom of media mayhem. One man in Portugal became a suspect shortly after a British journalist called the police to report him as being suspicious.

"I would be very surprised if editors don't start to ease down a bit," said Clifford. "For several days we've had news bulletins that are basically telling us nothing. Eventually people don't like that."

--------
Sorry for taking up so much space, but thought this article from Reuters (in June!) was very well written and worth reading...

Niki

Atardi said...

Dolores,

I wish I could sign that.

hope4truth said...

dolores

Hello I cant get the link to work it says it does not recognise it :o(

Can you post it again please x

hope4truth said...

Atardi

HI hope you had a nice day off..

Isis sorry I mixed you up with Atardi earlier and told you to enjoy your bank holiday you must think I am mad LOL

(hope you are feeling better)

xxxz

isis said...

hi hope , yeah was wondering about that !! Never mind il just pretend im going to have one anyway !!

dolores said...

hope 4 truth
Hi, here it is

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/no-to-neglect/BD6DOIEC76vUDpNOqxAN6qP





DON'T GIVE TROLLS A VOICE.

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

I do not support Mr Bennett and I have deep rooted philosophical reasons for doing so.

It is already a serious criminal offence to neglect a child under Children and Young Persons Act 1933 - examples of offences where parents are prosecuted or child protection procedures put into effect by Social Services include:

Baby or child left alone
Children in dirty or inadequate clothes
Dirty or unsafe house or garden
Children not being fed properly or stealing food
Lack of food or water
Abusive language
Violence in the home
Excessive punishments including hitting
A cold house
No toys or books
Young children out on their own in the day or night
Lack of furniture or clean bedding
Children at home on school days
Isolated children


Before there is any prosecution of parents a decision is taken as to whether such a prosecution would be in the public interests. For this reason it is usually cases where there has been extremely serious neglect where criminal proceedings are taken because there is a view the parents neglect is so serious it merits a cutodial sentence. This is likely to be the case where the children are not just left alone, but the house if filthy, the children unfed, not taken to the doctors, suffer cruel punishments etc. In the less extreme cases the parents may have the children removed from their case but not actually face criminal proceedings or they may receive intervention from social services to help them become better parents. Not all cases of neglect are wilful. Some parents have learning disabilities or mental health problems.

So, I hope it will be appreciated that when we need to go so far as to use the criminal law against parents, the law is there already and does get used in appropriate cases. There is far too much child neglect in the UK to look for simplistic fixes like a new law or throwing them all into prison. New laws are just a cheap political gimmick. They do not change the prevailing social conditions and attitudes that pervade and allow children to be abused and neglected. It is far more about education than punishment in my view. We need to publicise the law more but there already have been some very good adverts by the NSPCC. Have you seen the one of the little boy alone crying in his cot mama. That makes plain it is an offence that people should report. Sadly neighbours do not always know what is going on but if they do they should be encouraged to report the matter to the Social SErvies Department. Once they have investigated if the parents behaviour is so serious that the police need to become involved e.g. in the McCanns case, then they will be notified immediately, but it remains a fact that quite often the best way of protecting children is to keep them with their parents but supervise and work with the parents to ensure they get better at looking after their kids. I am not going to be part of a witchhunt against all parents who, for for a variety of reasons, do not care for their kids as well as they might. Or add to the false view that just bringing out new laws makes any difference to a serious social problem. It does not, it is about having systems in place to actually protect children, education of parents as their responsibilities and educating the public that we are all responsible for every single child in the UK who may be suffering harm at the hands of parents and relatives. If we have any suspicion this is going on we must report this.

Quite often when children are left alone, it certainly needs investigating because it indicates the children are being placed at serious risk of harm. As is in the Mccann case, it can turn out to be far more serious and then it is certainly a matter of the police becoming involved. Note also anyone can report children left alone to the police as well as social workers who have powers under the Children Act 1989 to remove the children to a place of safety - they will always immediately involved Social Services who have the statutory responsibility to protect all children placed at risk of harm.

I hope this explains why I do not support the proposed petition.

Luv Viv x

hope4truth said...

Dolores

It comes up with this .... Unfortunately, we couldn't understand the signup link that you've used. If you typed the link in manually, please re-check that you've got it absolutely right...

Odd???

hope4truth said...

Isis

LOL sorry I hope you enjoyed your pretend Bank Holiday...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
u pieces of shit. u go on other peoples blogs anonymously u cowardly fucks and then u have the gal to say they are making u target practice. fucking cunts

25 February 2008 20:21

What lovely posters you have.
Viv if you can stoop this low with your filthy language I would rather not be on your blog, I'm sorry but what you or doc have just posted on that other site is now what I am here for.
I bid you farewell !

felicity said...

Hi

People are asking me not to remove posts like the above.

I am content to leave them if that is what people want, just so that we can be in no doubt how repulsive McCanns supporters really are.

Viv x

hope4truth said...

The thing I find funny are millions of people who use the internet and a lot of them are young people who like to have a laugh and stir up trouble...

Judging by the Annon posts they are either mindless kids who dont know any better or weired adults who want to be noticed as no one cares about what they say or think in the real world... Whoever they are they are very sad and should be shown pity for their feable minds poor things...

pedagogiek said...

Hope4truth,

So it's called bank holiday.

It was a nice shopping day with the kids. The biggest ones wanted to go to the big Sweden shop.
We spent hours there.

And the little one wanted a "Cars" attribute. Have you seen this movie?

hope4truth said...

Viv leave them there anyone who hides their identity is obviously ashamed of what they are doing but it will get them a pat on the head let them have some joy in life poor things...

It reminds the rest of us just how sad people can be...

Embrace Paranoia and accept an attack as a compliment as it means what you are saying is correct and they are to stupid to try and debate and dont know anymore than anyone else...

Atardi said...

Hope4truth,

Atardi said...

Hope4truth,

It was me.

hope4truth said...

Atardi

Yes if we get a Monday off (or Good Friday) it is called a Bank Holiday in England (so called because the Banks are shut)...

I have seen Cars my Daughter loves it did your son get anything from the film???

Which country are you in???

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