13 Feb 2008

Current thread - Portugal Statement/ METODO 3 BLATANT LIARS THE EVIDENCE

What an excellant piece of investigative journalism from The Times. So McCann employees Clarence Mitchell and the avaricious and rather creepy Mr Marco are blatant liars - what can we deduce from that? Just like their employers..

Viv x



Madeleine McCann and Metodo 3: Private eyes, public lies
Paid £50,000 a month to find Madeleine McCann, the Spanish detective Francisco Marco said he hoped to have her home for Christmas. He issued this photofit of a suspect last month; it set off a media frenzy, but Portuguese police say it has ‘no credibility’. Christine Toomey turns the tables on a private eye who is anything but
Francisco Marco might have been thinking about other matters on the day he apparently spoke out about his hopes that Madeleine McCann would be home for Christmas. It was the day his Spanish private detective agency, Metodo 3 – paid an estimated £50,000 a month to help find Madeleine – moved from cramped premises above a grocer’s shop specialising in sausages in Barcelona’s commercial district to a multi-million-pound suite of offices in a grand villa on one of the city’s most prestigious boulevards.
When a taxi driver drops me off at Metodo’s new premises, he tilts his finger against the tip of his nose and says “pijo” – meaning stuck-up or snobbish. Pointing to the restaurant on the ground floor, he says: “That’s where people who like to show off go – so others can see their Rolex watches and designer clothes.”
It is in his office on the second floor that Marco has agreed to meet me, the first British journalist, he says, to whom he has ever granted an interview. When I point out that he was filmed by a Panorama documentary crew in November claiming he was “very, very close to finding the kidnapper” of Madeleine, he corrects himself: “Well, apart from that.” Marco will tell me later how who he has spoken to, and what he has or has not said, has been misunderstood.
But first I must wait, taking a seat at a long, highly polished boardroom table surrounded by pristine white-leather chairs. At one end of the room, discreetly lit shelves display an impressive collection of vintage box cameras and binoculars. Stacked against the walls are modern paintings waiting to be hung. It feels more like an art gallery than the hub of one of the most frantic manhunts of modern times.
There is no discernible ringing of telephones; little sign of activity of any kind, other than a woman searching for a lead to take a pet poodle for a walk and the occasional to-ing and fro-ing of workmen putting finishing touches to the sleek remodelling of the office complex.
It is not clear whether this is where the hotlines for any information about Madeleine are answered. Opposite the boardroom is an open-plan area of around half a dozen cubicles, equipped with banks of phones and computers. Most are empty when I arrive; admittedly it is lunch time. But I cannot ask about this.
“We won’t answer any questions about Maddie. Maddie is off limits – is that understood?” Marco’s cousin Jose Luis, another of the agency’s employees, warns me sternly.
Catching me eyeing the setup, he is quick to explain that Metodo 3, or M-3, bought the premises earlier last year. Though I say nothing, I get the distinct impression he wants to make it clear that this was before M-3 persuaded those involved in decisions regarding the £1m Find Madeleine Fund – partially made up of donations from the public and partly from business backers such as Brian Kennedy – to sign a six-figure, six-month contract with the firm, whose financial fortunes now seem assured by the worldwide publicity they’ve since received.
“All the remodelling work took months, so we only moved in on December 14,” he says, hesitating slightly before adding: “Moving is better at Christmas.” The implication that this was a quiet period for M-3 is strange, as it was exactly the time Marco is reported to have said his agency was “hoping, God willing” that Madeleine would be imminently reunited with her family. Marco has since denied he said this.
I cannot ask him to clarify what he did say, or whether talking about an ongoing investigation is potentially detrimental. Instead, I am left to discuss the matter with a handful of other private detective agencies in Barcelona, the private-eye capital of Spain. What they tell me is disturbing.
I expect a certain amount of rivalry, and some of what they say about M-3 could be dismissed as jealous gossip. But they claim otherwise.
They say there is nothing they would like more than to see M-3 succeed in solving the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance. But they worry that M-3’s inflated claims of progress in the case is making a laughing stock of the rest of them. References to Inspector Clouseau cut deep. They are proud that, unlike their UK counterparts, Spanish private detectives have to be vetted and licensed. They must also have a specialised university degree in private investigation. More importantly, in a profession where discretion is critical, they worry about the effect of such public declarations on the progress of any investigation. It is in the days following reports that the Find Madeleine Fund is considering sacking M-3 that I talk to Marco – though of course I cannot discuss this with him.
Clarence Mitchell, the spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann, Madeleine’s parents, says he believes M-3 “put themselves forward” for the task, as did a number of other companies. Just a week after the four-year-old’s disappearance from the McCanns’ holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve on May 3 last year, Portuguese police had announced that official searches were being wound down. Initially, the British security company Control Risks Group, a firm founded by former SAS men, was called on for advice. Mitchell confirms that the company is still “assisting in an advisory capacity”, but he says that the reason the
Spanish detective agency was hired was because of Portugal’s “language and cultural connection” with Spain. “If we’d had big-booted Brits or, God forbid, Americans, we’d have had doors slammed in our face, and it’s quite likely we could have been charged with hindering the investigation, as technically it’s illegal in Portugal to undertake a secondary investigation,” Mitchell explains. “But because it’s Metodo 3, [Alipio] Ribeiro [national director of Portugal’s Policia Judiciara] is turning a blind eye.” Portuguese police are reported to dismiss M-3 as “small fry”.
Mitchell says the decision to hire M-3 on a six-month contract from September was taken “collectively” by Gerry McCann, and the family’s lawyers and backers, on the grounds that the agency had the manpower, profile and resources to work in several countries. “You can argue now whether it was the right decision or not,” he says, referring to widespread reports that M-3 will find its contract terminated in March – if it hasn’t been already – and not just because the Find Madeleine Fund is dwindling. “But operationally Metodo 3 are good on the ground,” he insists.
It was M-3, for instance, who recently commissioned a police artist to draw a sketch of the man they believe could be involved in Madeleine’s disappearance, despite Portuguese-police claims that the sketch had “no credibility”.
Clearly, the McCanns are desperate to keep Madeleine’s disappearance in the public eye. And the release of photofits by M-3 will help to achieve this. The McCanns insist, however, that they are not engaged in a bidding war for interviews with American television.
But when 35-year-old Marco finally breezes into his company boardroom and throws himself into a chair opposite me, I do not get the impression that the prospect of losing the contract that has brought his company such notoriety is playing much on his mind.
Marco slaps on the table a 144-page pre-prepared dossier of articles written in the Spanish press about himself and M-3. He goes on to list some of those in the city he says I have already been speaking to about his company. Had my movements been monitored? If so, why would a private detective agency be interested in this at a time when they were supposed to be tirelessly searching for the most famous missing child in the world? This confounds me until, after talking to Marco for half an hour, I conclude that what motivates him – as much as, if not more than, his professed desire to present Madeleine with the doll he boasts he carries around in his briefcase to hand to her when he finds her – is a sense of self-regard, self-publicity and money.
) ) ) ) )
In most of the many pictures of himself included in the material he hands me, Marco looks a little nerdy. He wears the same serious expression, slightly askew glasses and suit and tie in nearly all of them. But when we meet he has a more debonair look. He is wearing a black polo-neck jumper underneath a sports jacket, sharper, and better-adjusted half-rimmed glasses, and a fringe that looks as though it has been blow-dried. It is as if his image of how a suave private eye should be has finally been realised.
In contrast to the other private eyes I meet, however, Marco is anything but relaxed. While most of them sit back easily in their chairs, trying to size me up, Marco leans towards me as we talk. He presses his hands hard on the table, almost in a prayer position, to emphasise a point, and has an intense, slightly unnerving stare.
He seems eager to please. He summons a female assistant on several occasions to bring me material, including a book he has recently written, to illustrate what he is talking about. Even when I make it clear this is not necessary – aware that these distractions eat into the time we have to talk – he insists, partly showing off.
When I ask about his background, Marco summons her to photocopy the first pages of his doctoral thesis on private investigation: he has a master’s degree and a PhD in penal law. He gets strangely agitated when she can’t find it, telling her to carry on looking, then mutters that he will have to look for it himself. Eventually he starts to reminisce about his youth. As a teenager, Marco says, he was so keen to become a private detective that he would get up at 5am to follow people on his scooter and record their movements before starting and after finishing his studies. His mother, Maria “Marita” Fernandez Lado, founded M-3 in 1986, when he was a boy, and he used to help out in the agency every holiday.
I hear several different accounts of what Marita was doing before she set up the agency. According to her son, she was working on a fashion magazine when, by chance, through Marco and his brother’s boyhood love of sailing, she met and became friends with a private detective. “From that moment, she decided she wanted to create her own detective agency, and wanted it to be a big company with big cases, a real business. She wanted to change the public image of a small private detective concerned with infidelities,” Marco says.
In Spain, private eyes are sometimes called huelebraguetas – “fly [zip] sniffers”. One of the reasons Barcelona has always been the home of so many of them, Marco explains, is that Catalonia – traditionally one of the wealthiest regions in Spain – had many rich families wanting to safeguard their inheritance. So parents would employ “fly sniffers” to check out the backgrounds of the people their sons or daughters wanted to marry. M-3 took a different track. It started specialising in investigating financial swindles, industrial espionage and insurance fraud. His mother was the first private detective, Marco says, to provide video evidence used in court to unmask an insurance fraudster: she filmed a man reading who had claimed to be blind. Marco also speaks about how in the early 1990s his mother had helped advise the Barcelona police, who were setting up a new department dedicated to investigating gambling and the welfare of children. He says his mother advised them on how to track adolescents who had run away from home, helping them to trace 15 or 16 of them at that time. (It is when I try to bring the interview back to this subject, to see if these were the children the agency has talked about finding in the past, that the interview grinds to a halt.)
But the agency almost came to grief early on, when police raided its offices, and Marco, his mother, father and brother were arrested and briefly jailed in 1995 on charges of phone-tapping and attempting to sell taped conversations. They were never prosecuted, as it was clear that the police had entrapped them.
Their big break came nearly 10 years later, when M-3 was credited with tracking down one of Spain’s most-infamous spies, Francisco Paesa, a notorious arms dealer and double agent also known as “El Zorro” (The Fox) and “the man with a thousand faces”. Paesa fled Spain after being charged with money-laundering. His family claimed he died in Thailand in 1998 and arranged for Gregorian masses to be sung for his soul for a month at a Cistercian monastery in northern Spain. Acting for a client who claimed to have been defrauded by Paesa’s niece, M-3 traced the fugitive to Luxembourg. At the behest of the Spanish national newspaper El Mundo, the agency then traced him to Paris. Paesa remains on the run, however.
“This was just one of our great achievements. Our biggest successes have never been made public,” boasts Marco. “If you speak to other detectives in Spain, I don’t think they will speak very highly of us because they are envious. But as far as other detectives around the world are concerned, we are the biggest, the most famous; the ones who work well.”
Again in collaboration with El Mundo, and again by following an illegal money trail, M-3 last year tracked down the daughter of the wanted Nazi war criminal Aribert Heim to a farm in Chile. “This was pro-bono work, and we only do it when we have time,” says Marco. The hard-pressed detective did have time just before Christmas, however, to launch a book he had co-written with a Spanish journalist. The book claims that clients of M-3 sacked directors of a charity involved in sponsoring children in the Third World, were victims of a plot to discredit them by people associated with a Spanish branch of Oxfam who were jealous that the public was giving them large donations. The sacked directors are still under investigation for fraud.
It is perhaps because Marco has spent so much time collaborating with journalists in the past that he feels so comfortable talking to the press – the Spanish press, at least – about his investigation into Madeleine McCann. In November he gave two lengthy interviews about the case, one to El Mundo and another to a Barcelona newspaper, La Vanguardia.
In the interview with El Mundo, Marco talks touchingly about how his six-year-old son asks him the same question every evening when he kisses him goodnight: “Papa, have you found Maddie?” Because the little boy is learning to read, the article continues, he knows that his father is “the most famous detective in the world”.
But why, the journalist Juan Carlos de la Cal asks, would anyone in the UK, “the country of Sherlock Holmes, with all its cold-war spies and one of the most reliable secret services in the world”, have chosen M-3 to help? “Because we were the only ones who proposed a coherent hypothesis about the disappearance of their daughter,” Marco replies, explaining that M-3’s “principal line of enquiry” at that time – the article was published on November 25 – was “paedophiles”. He talks about how he “cried with rage” when he investigated on the internet how paedophiles operate.
Apart from these comments made by Marco, little concrete is known about how M-3 has been conducting its investigation. In the same article, Marco’s mother says the agency, which she claims has located 23 missing children in the past, has “20 or so” people working exclusively on the McCann case. M-3 was said at that time to be receiving an average of 100 calls a day “from the four quarters of the globe”, and to have half a dozen translators answering them in different languages. The agency has distributed posters worldwide bearing Madeleine’s picture with the telephone number of a dedicated hotline it has set up to receive tip-offs. The interview was carried out just after Marco returned from a two-week trip to Morocco, a country he describes as being known for child-trafficking and a “perfect” place to hide a stolen child. The north receives Spanish TV, he says, but the rest of Morocco knows nothing about the affair.
Yet in an interview published three weeks earlier in the newspaper La Vanguardia, Marco claimed that the agency had “around 40 people, here and in Morocco” working on the case, on the hypothesis that the child was smuggled out of Portugal, via the Spanish port of Tarifa, to Morocco, “where a blonde girl like Madeleine would be considered a status symbol”. At that time he said he didn’t want to think about paedophilia being involved. Asked how often his agency contacts the McCanns with updates, Marco replies “daily”. He adds that the fee that M-3 is charging for its services is not high. He says that it is “symbolic”.
In the same article – accompanied by a photograph of Marco holding a Sherlock Holmes-style hat – he says with absolute certainty that Madeleine is alive. “If I didn’t think she was alive, I wouldn’t be looking for her!” At first he states categorically that he will find her before M-3’s six-month contract runs out in March. But also in the same article the journalist explains that Marco proposes taking him out to dinner if he does not find the missing four-year-old before April 30. Unless all such statements are “misunderstandings”, Marco is in danger of leaving everyone with hopes that are not fulfilled.
When I start to touch on these themes – the claim, for instance, that M-3 traces around 300 missing people a year – Marco is quick to clarify. He says that, of the 1,000 or so investigations his agency undertakes every year, “between 100 and 200 involve English people who owe money and have fled England for Spain; the same with Germans, etcetera, etcetera”. This makes it sound as if much of the agency’s work
is little more than aiding bailiffs or debt-collecting, though I do not believe this to be the case. But when I ask him to elaborate on the 23 missing children his mother is reported to have said the agency has located in the past, Marco eases himself away from the table for the first time, tilting far back in his chair. He cannot talk about that on the grounds of confidentiality, he says. Shortly after this, his cousin Jose Luis, who has sat mostly silent until now, calls time on the interview with a chopping motion of his hand.
As I leave M-3’s office I pass another door discreetly announcing it is that of a private Swiss bank. As I take a seat in the restaurant downstairs for lunch, I notice Marco’s father, Francisco Marco Puyuelo, sitting close by. I nod at him and smile. He does not smile back. I have heard unsettling reports about Puyuelo.
He is rather menacing-looking, and I feel uncomfortable as he sits staring at me, slowly spooning chocolate ice cream into his mouth.
) ) ) ) )
It is easy to feel a little paranoid in Barcelona. Nearly every quarter seems to have its own private detective agency. Offices are prominently advertised; on the short ride in from the airport
I pass four. The city’s yellow-pages directory has six sides of listings. According to Catalonia’s College of Private Detectives, the professional association to which private detectives working in the region are obliged to belong, of the estimated 2,900 licensed private eyes in Spain – around 1,500 of them actively working – 370 are in Catalonia, mostly Barcelona.
The city has traditionally had a prestigious record for private investigation. One of Spain’s most well-known detectives, Eugenio Velez-Troya, was based in Barcelona, where he helped set up the first university course in private investigation, covering subjects such as civil and criminal law, forensic analysis and psychology.
One of the largest private detective agencies in Spain, Grupo Winterman, founded by Jose Maria Vilamajo more than 30 years ago, is based in Barcelona, though the company now has 10 offices in different cities with a staff of around 150. Vilamajo is the only detective prepared to talk on the record; the others prefer to remain anonymous for fear of professional reprisal. He talks about how Barcelona came to have so many private detectives, pointing out that competition in the field is now so intense that it is pushing individual agencies to “specialise”.
Vilamajo is the only private detective apart from Marco to receive me in a spacious company boardroom, which, it strikes me, might be the model on which Metodo 3, anticipating rapid expansion, is basing its new office setup.
I meet the other private eyes either in bars or in their more modest premises, with more cloak-and-dagger decor, though nearly all have an impressive array of certificates praising their work. One has the theme music from the film The Godfather as a mobile-phone ring tone.
All talk of the “different way” M-3 has of operating from other agencies in the city. Most of what they say I have no way of substantiating. Traditionally, they say, M-3 has wined and dined clients more than others, sometimes holding grand “round-table” suppers to which it invites important figures in the community.
One ageing sleuth slides across the table a Spanish newspaper article entitled “Detectives with marketing” , in case I might have missed it. A short piece referring to the book Marco recently co-wrote about the alleged charity conspiracy, it makes the point that the book “is another step in the direction of incorporating marketing into the business of private investigation”.
When I ask what’s wrong with a business marketing itself, my question elicits a long sigh. Suddenly I can see that underlying much of the rancour M-3’s rivals feel towards it is a sense that they are not “old-school gumshoes” working in the shadows. One of their criticisms of Marco is that “he doesn’t know much about the street. He’s good at theory. He’s like a manager, always dressed up in a suit and tie”.
So he has a team of others to do the legwork, I argue. Another long sigh. “Not as many as he claims,” comes the response. On this point, all those I speak to agree. None believes M-3’s claims that it has 40 people working on the hunt for Madeleine, since the maximum number M-3 employs in its Barcelona office, they believe, is a dozen, with another few in its Madrid branch.
But again, I point out, it could have any number of operatives working for it in other countries, namely Portugal and Morocco.
My comment draws a weary smile. Metodo 3 company records for the six years up to 2005 appear to show a decline in the number of permanent employees listed – from 26 in 1999 to just 12 in 2005 – although there could be some accounting explanation for this.
Perhaps the most worrying of the detectives’ concerns is the consistent complaint that M-3 is using its involvement in the search for Madeleine to raise its profile and that Marco’s statements about how close he is to finding the child could be seriously prejudicing attempts to find out the truth. “If the agency fails to solve the mystery of Madeleine’s disappearance, that failure will be forgotten in a few years,” said one. “But M-3 will be famous and, ultimately, that is what they want.”
“They are making us look ridiculous,” says another detective. “The English are looking at us and laughing and we are very worried, very upset about it. They [M-3] are denigrating the ethics of our profession.”
To seek guidance on how private detectives are expected to behave, I visit the president of Catalonia’s College of Private Detectives: Jose Maria Fernandez Abril. After making the point that he is unable to speak about any individual member of his professional association, he proceeds to carefully read me a statement that begins: “Following the media impact of affairs in which detectives belonging to the college are involved…” It clearly echoes the concerns that others I have spoken to voice about the conduct of Metodo 3.
“No general conclusions should be drawn about the profession from the actions of any individual,” Abril reads, before helpfully explaining that this means: “You can’t go around saying you are the best in the world, implying that everyone else is somehow worse.”
More importantly, there are repeated references to how members are obliged to comply with the college’s strict code of conduct, which includes: not stating with certainty the result of an investigation and not revealing information about an investigation without agreeing it first with the client.
In other words, if M-3 was to argue that announcing just when it believed it would find Madeleine would help its investigation, the announcement should have been cleared with the McCanns. Given the deep dismay Gerry McCann is reported to have expressed over Marco’s comments about how close the agency was to finding his daughter’s kidnappers and about her being reunited with her family for Christmas, it seems unlikely any agreement over such statements was ever made.
As I leave, Abril informs me that the college has in recent years organised an annual “Night of the Detectives” supper. This year it will be held in March. He invites me to attend. At the supper, various prizes are presented. Among them is one for the fiction author they believe has contributed most to the public understanding of investigative work. This year they have awarded the prize to Dan Brown, author of the worldwide bestseller The Da Vinci Code.
They are a little hurt that he has not replied to, or even acknowledged, their invitation to attend.All this could be almost funny if I were not constantly aware that the reason I have come to Barcelona is because an exhausted little girl enjoying a family holiday went to sleep in pink pyjamas alongside her twin brother and sister on the night of May 3 last year, then disappeared. The anguish and desperation of her parents account for the Spanish detective-agency’s lucrative contract. The boasting and apparent false hopes fed to them by Marco could yet prove to be his downfall.

208 comments:

1 – 200 of 208   Newer›   Newest»
2345 said...

Viv,

Thanks for the article. I've never believed reports of the extortionately high sums paid to M 3. They're the perfect means for syphoning Fund money and are conveniently sited next to a Swiss Bank.

Hope your son's making good progress. I'm off to visit my twin sister and will catch up later or tomorrow. 11.20 p.m.

irina said...

Hello Viv,
Were not McCanns just lucky with M3? They are doing the good job in diversion and cover up and provide laundry for mortgage payments for McCanns.

I am waiting on the results of Portuguese Minister for Justice speech regarding Riberio's statement.
It is worrying though, as it was mentioned before Portugal is UK ally. Alsabella is very philosophical about it, saying that governments change. I do not think it is good for justice or democracy to depend on current group of people in power rather then on law.
We shall see.
It is all quiet from Clara, he is probably waiting for minister statement too.

irina said...

I was right - all McCann camp is listening to Portuguese Minister of Justice.

So far Sky reported : case near the conclusion.

What is next?

dolores said...

13.46
Viv,
And she said this without blushing

IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME HOW MANY IDS PEOPLE HAVE
13.02.08, 1:21pm

or if they want to talk to themselves like Viv and Felicity and dad and dope and those with at least 6 like Alsabelia.
I only have on ID which I use on here, yet I am constantly attacked by people with many IDs for being someone else and if I say anythng I am attacked again.

Too many double standards on here.

• Posted by: Rosiepops • Report Comment
TELL THE TRUTH YOU SCHEMING HYPOCRITE AND LIAR You come here hiding behind anon.,

dolores said...

Madeleine Cops Set To 'Shut The Case'
Updated:13:51, Wednesday February 13, 2008
From 3 A's
The police investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance in the Algarve is nearing its end, Portugal's justice minister has revealed.

Vanished: MadeleineAlberto Costa told a parliamentary committee hearing: "We are at a stage now where we are approaching the conclusion of the process."

It is now 286 days since four-year-old Madeleine vanished from her family's holiday apartment in the seaside resort of Praia da Luz while her parents dined with friends nearby.

Advertisement

Sky News' Crime correspondent Martin Brunt said: "I find it extraordinary that after less than a year they are considering winding up the case. You would have thought there was much more to explore.

"It gives substance to the long-held belief that the Portuguese police had very few clues to go on all along.


The McCanns and Mr Mitchell"This basically means that no official Portuguese police detectives will actively work on the case any more - but, if a significant new piece of evidence was discovered, they would have to react to it."

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the missing girl's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, said the only satisfactory conclusion would be Madeleine being found.

He said: "If the case is coming to a conclusion, we hope it will conclude shortly with the finding of Madeleine and her being reunited with her parents.

"That is the only satisfactory conclusion for us."

Brunt added: "What does it mean to the McCanns? It could either mean they are released from their arguido (suspect) status at last or the cloud of suspicion could remain over them forever."

More to follow...

irina said...

Well Clarence &co,
Nearing conclusion means the case is solved. Investigation stage is finished.
Poor Brunt, what more to investigate?
Let them show were the body is.
Then Clarence could bring her home as a special service.

felicity said...

Hiya 2345, Irina and Dolores

I have always thought the setting up of the Fund seeking massive donations from the public was a very serious example of fraud. On the basis they know Maddie is dead and they are asking for money to find her.

Gerry McCann demonstrated that it was never the intention to actually use this fund to find Maddie by his furious comment - we have been forced to use the fund to hunt for Maddie. Instead he considered it his own defence fighting fund or expenses, mortgage fund etc until advised just how unwise this was. Additionally, the appointment of M3 AFTER they were made arguidos and when Maddie had already been missing for four months was blatant. They had a huge sum of cash to look for Maddie. Highly trained and reputable enquiry agents could have greatly aided any police search for a genuinely abducted child. So just how seriously were they looking for her by waiting four whole months? Then we hear their concern about her being abused by paedophiles..how utterly regugnant!

Mr Marco states in this article that he was the only one who got the job because he came up with the hypothesis that Gerry wanted to hear - that Maddie had been snatched by paedophiles. Was he a fit person to conduct such an investigation. Hardly! He says he had to do internet research about paedophilia! That does not make him any more of an expert in locating such children than you or I. And yet, he is being paid £58,000 per month to come up with ridiculous McCann propaganda. I understand that in Spain investigators have to be licensed and work by codes of practice. I hope the relevant authorities and the police express interest in this firm, not for the first time!

Whether the criminality goes beyond being part of the McCann spin machine and actually incorporates money laundering we will have to wait and see.

Agreed - the big news we are waiting for is the statement today about Ribeiro's comments. I do not think it will be that momentous. Merely emphasising he was not criticising the PJ. He was simply saying that given the unprecedented and unexpected response from TEam McCann and the difficulty and expense all of the false information thrown their way has caused to the investigation it would have been better to keep them as unofficial suspects for longer. Then many of the difficulties encountered could have been avoided. It is a lesson to be learned for the future as to the timing of making suspects arguidos. However, I do not think the Portuguese police really had any choice but to make them arguidos. Suspects who are going to have extremely serious criminal allegations put to them have the right - the human right to be treated fairly and defend themselves. This entails the right to a lawyer and the right to remain silent in the face of questioning. WE do this in UK by cautioning. They do it in Portugal by making them arguidos. If the McCanns had not been warned they were formal suspects and had been questioned in this manner without a lawyer present - the MCanns would have been complaining their human rights had not been respected and the PJ's case would have been in dire trouble and likely to be thrown out by a judge. Thus they did act correctly. They had the FSS results back which implicated the McCanns - they just could not put that evidence to them without accusing them.

Dolores

I am always grateful for people pointing out his further attacks on me - they go in a file!

Luv Viv x

dolores said...

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the missing girl's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, said the only satisfactory conclusion would be Madeleine being found.

He said: "I am not going to react specifically to what the justice minister has said to parliament.

"However, if the case is coming to a conclusion, we hope it will conclude shortly with the finding of Madeleine and her being reunited with her parents.

"That is the only satisfactory conclusion for us."

felicity said...

Nearing the end of the process does not mean the case is to be shut - how quickly that repulsive man swings into misrepresenting such a clear statement!

viv x

felicity said...

This really confirms what we were thinking - the only thing they PJ need to do now to conclude their case it to re-interview McCanns/TAPAS.

We cannot be that far away from them actually being charged - I think by about June - when the fund runs out! Forgive my cynicism!

Viv x

felicity said...

Dolores - how unusual for Rosie to be posting on the Daily Express during the day - did he have the day off especially or is it a laptop job at work, on his employer's time? There are some dodgy employees in the NHS!

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
It certainly is odd,and the smarmy snail is trying to place a halo round his head.
I cannot bear liars,
And that garbage yesterday was pathetic and desperate.

I think Clan Mc Cann and DE pro's are going to take this latest article out of context,that should be amusing.

luv D
xx 15.09

dolores said...

Viv, 15.19
I have a another reminder, to refresh events.

Dr Oldfield did his round of the bedrooms. In a first statement to police, it is unclear if he actually went inside the McCann flat.
Indeed, one scenario is that many of the checks of the children were not visible, but involved listening at doors or even from outside the apartments.
However, in a second statement Dr Oldfield insists he did look in Madeleine's bedroom, believes he saw her there, and that there was light coming in through the windows as though the heavy shutters had been opened.

kuv D
xxx

SueB said...

Don't believe it folks. It's simply NOT true - nothing at all has been mentioned about the case reaching a conclusion. It's Clarrie with his ready-made spin and it's all coming from the UK only.

felicity said...

Hi Dolores

Well yes Dr Oldfield is in big trouble - remember Doc says he is the ones who wanted to change his statement - who could blame him!

Sue the quote the process is nearing its conclusion was in inverted commas and I think that is what was actually said.

I am beginning to imagine the spin when they get charged which I think will be around June time. Spin gets worked out months in advance. Clarence has told us many times of late the fund will be gone by JUne. And so then, it will be poor McCanns, charged with killing their daughter, reputations ruined so they cannot collect any more money from the public, fund all gone so they cannot even look for little Maddie any more - shame shame.

Viv x

dolores said...

SueB 15.24

I don't think we beleive it,and would rather hear the news from Portugal.

xx

felicity said...

Ha ha Dolores

Rosie posted in his lunch break! Now they have an extraordinary general meeting to work out the spin - there are no drones or rosies about at present but just wait - I wonder what the party line wil be to deal with this one! One thing is for sure Rosie will be singing it the loudest and they will all be going oh yes rosie is right rosie is clever ..

you could have fooled me!

Those 7000 posts are a matter of record and will come back to bite him.

Viv x

felicity said...

Hi Sue

I checked my favourite paper from Portugal Correio de manha but could not see anything at present. As and when will report or someone will on here. Maybe they dont see it as massively important but Clarence does! It needs some top spin LOL

Viv x

dolores said...

Sol 15.36

I have read, that not one newspaper in Portugal have mentioned 'conclusion'
Our press are really failing its readers.


Case Maddie
Minister of Justice says that the case "was not affected" by the declarations of Alípio Ribeiro
The Minister of Justice said today at the 1 st Parliamentary Committee that the process "has not been affected by this moment," an allusion to statements by the director of national PJ on the formation of the couple accused Mcann

"I have indications that the current top of the case was not affected by this moment," said Alberto Costa, in response to the member of CDS-PP Nuno Melo, who requested the presence of the Minister before the Parliamentary Committee for Constitutional Affairs, Rights, and Freedoms Guarantees to explain the assertion Alípio Ribeiro on alleged precipitation in the formation of accused parents of Madeleine Mcann, disappeared in the Algarve in May 2007.

The Minister of Justice has been refused by the responsible maximum of Judicial Police (PJ) a violation of the secrecy of Justice.

"If there were algunm evidence of violation of the secrecy of Justice, has already been initiated an investigation" by Attorney General's Office, the governor stressed to the Members.

Also in response to the CDS-PP, which considered the declarations of Alípio Ribeiro "objectively serious repercussions and with internal and external" to the process, the minister recalled that before the amendment of the Criminal Procedure Code (September 15, 2007) "the act the constitution of defendants was an organ of police criminal "
eaders.

felicity said...

Thanks a lot for that Dolores - this does confirm that the remark was more like i thought it was going to be be

the process has not been affected by the comments of Ribeiro

that is very different to saying the process is nearing its conclusion

I agree we do need to get proper reporting from Portugal as even a remark put in quotes appears to be false - this is shocking and should be reported to the Press Complaints Commission if this is the case.

It is dreadful that what appears to happen is Clarence and the Editors decide what they will write after agreed changes to what has actually been said. Disgraceful!

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
I think the next step is a letter to the Press Complaints Commision, one we can all sign.
You are much better than I with words.
It's unacceptable reporting.
Why it gets distorted, should be questioned.
Luv D
xx
16.05

felicity said...

Not sure who deedee is but well said!!! Repeatedly Rosie suggests Viv and Felicity talk to each other knowing full well Felicity is just my internet name which is no secret! Is this really the best he can do? What a pathetic bunch

Viv x

Why do you go to viv's site and pose as anonymous and stir up trouble
Published: Wednesday February 13,2008 by deedee2
BOTHER ME HOW MANY IDS PEOPLE HAVE
13.02.08, 1:21pm
or if they want to talk to themselves like Viv and Felicity andd and dope and those with at least 6 like Alsabelia.
I only have on ID which I use on here, yet I am constantly attacked by people with many IDs for being someone else and if I say anythng I am attacked again.

Too many double standards on here.
• Posted by: Rosiepops

dolores said...

Viv

Above answer to your query :)
Dash it, my right eye is blinking it won't stop...lol
XX

felicity said...

If posters can get authoritive news from Portugal/ posts of Portuguese contributors please paste so we can see them.

Going out for dinner back later.

Ta
Viv x

felicity said...

Dolores darling - we are simply the best and must put them to the test :-)

Viv xxxxxx

Now I must pop off for a little rest....

felicity said...

ABSENT FRIENDS
13.02.08, 4:29pm


I see team McCann posters are in a meeting at the moment. It will be interesting what the main thread of their argument will be later.
Or not to be paranoid (Helen) there frying the fish fingers for tea.


• Posted by: wizard


My sentiments entirely...very conspicuous by their absence on the Daily Express! We await their vicious onslaught a little later..after another of their entirely pointless Extraordinary General Meetings..Spinning Kate and Gerry will just make them dizzy

Viv x

dolores said...

From BBC NEWS
Madeleine inquiry 'nearly over'

Madeleine disappeared on holiday in the Algarve with her parents
The police inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance is almost over, Portugal's justice minister has said.
Alberto Costa told a parliamentary committee in Lisbon that officers were near the "conclusion of the process".

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry, said the only satisfactory conclusion would be Madeleine being found.

Madeleine, of Rothley, Leicestershire, went missing, aged three, in Praia da Luz in the Algarve on 3 May last year.

Arguido status

Mr Mitchell said: "If the case is coming to a conclusion, we hope it will conclude shortly with the finding of Madeleine and her being reunited with her parents.

"That is the only satisfactory conclusion for us.

"If, however, the justice minister is referring to the aspects to the inquiry concerning Kate and Gerry being concluded, then they must be eliminated from the investigation forthwith."

He said there was no evidence to implicate Kate or Gerry McCann in any way with the disappearance of their daughter.

"We remain confident that the Portuguese authorities will realise this and that Kate and Gerry's arguido [official suspect] status will be lifted in the near future", Mr Mitchell said.

'Worrying leaks'

The justice minister told the parliamentary committee that it was "premature" to say whether the police investigation would reveal what had happened to Madeleine McCann.

Alberto Costa cited British statistics which showed that 80% of similar cases in the UK remain unresolved.

"It would be good if people could show self-restraint," he said, referring to the many "worrying leaks" about the case.


Clarty give up, we have had enough of your spin.And see right through you.
'Wag the Dog' is an insight into media manipulation.Great movie folks.

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Something I have just thought of re Rosiepops, do you remember how when Gerry wasn't working she posted throughout the day and evening.? Since his return to work ,she coincidentally now only usually posts in the evening or at night, with the odd post in the day. Might be coincidence but her absence in the day would lead us to believe she is employed full time. Lizzy 17.00

guerra said...

Mr. Alberto Costa did not say that the investigation is nearing an end; this is simply another lie being promulgated by the British Media. Mr. Alberto Costa simply reiterated his confidence in Mr. Alipio Ribeiro and he said that Mr. Ribeiro’s comments have not affected the course of the investigation. He also said that if Mr. Ribeiro’s comments had been in violation of the secrecy laws in Portugal an inquiry into the matter would have already been launched

dolores said...

Guerra
Sadly, some find it more acceptable to put there own interpration on a story, without reading it properly.
It suits theor purpose

17.58

2345 said...

Clarence's comment "the only satisfactory conclusion would be Madeleine being found".

For whose benefit? Madeleine's entitlement to post mortem examination? It would be highly unsatisfactory for the parents and those who assisted in Madeleine's disposal to have her remains 'found' and forensically examined, wouldn't it Clarence?
Give you all a heart attack !!

Fortunately for Madeleine, the Police do not need her remains to conclude the case to their satisfaction, not that of the guilty parties. 6.25 p.m.

ct1538 said...

Hello, hello

Testing ,testing.

Honestly Viv, I ask you ! It took me 3 months to get in on the other method and then you change the system. Hopefully this has worked.
If not I'm talking to myself. Lol

dolores said...

ct1538,
Hi ther, Viv sould'nt be to long , she went for dinner.
Ifound that pressing your refresh button brings your post up in the debate column, and you know you, you have done it right.

19.41

felicity said...

Hiya all - Had a nice dinner thanks and just got back. CT sorry to have had to change it again but nothing will stop intelligent people finding a way:-)

Lizzie - great to see you again also. Think you read my mind re "Rosiepops" one who clearly has considerable internet skills and "she" tells us cannot change the sex in the profile. This poster is male alright! Also you may recall used to stay up until 2 or 3 am having late nights raves about me but now pops off to bed generally about midnight or so. Again entirely consistent with this poster being Gerry who needs to get up refreshed for work in the morning! No normal person unconnected to the McCanns would write the blatant lies and nastiness this person writes. However he has toned it down a great deal from say October/November last year when their were some blistering attacks on me also in some of his alter- egos gentlebreeze, peace and harmony, Mel - these were used to write even more offensive filth and got banned. He makes sure he keeps Rosiepops but uses other names in a disposable way to be even nastier. Also uses alter-egos to back up and agree with him e.g. HelenM. Very sick stuff!

Viv x

supertroll said...

The case is reaching its conclusion.
DNA results were inconclusive.
All the blood and body fluid comments were just speculation.
There is not enough evidence to charge the parents.
There is no evidence they did it.
The PJ allowed the crime scene to be compromised.
When more senior and competent officers took over the case, the damage was irreparable.
Hopefully the parents will be released from their arguido status so that they can try and rebuild their lives.
I can't imagine how painful it must be for them to never know what happened to their daughter.
I hope for them that one day they will get the answers they need.

irina said...

Hello everybody.
Here is a theory.
Now McCann & co have to prove to backers(financial ones) that everything is going well. In fact, knowing now after political pressure did not work and UK officials increasing the distance with the arguidos, they are deport to keep big guys happy.
So this is a try to make something out of very bad news.

It looks very pale and fabricated, but what Clara can do?

P.S. I did not get reply for my second e-mail to Home Office public relation dep. either. Which is a very good news, they are thinking and waiting new instructions, which I think would not be in favor of Mcs.

The sad thing for me is that these people(Mcs) discredit Scottish people, whom I have a great respect for.
Well as any Russian, we are fascinated with other cultures anyway.
Being in Scotland for the New Year, I can testify that papers and people do not associate themselves with McCanns. They call Gerry Scottish born, which is true as he is Irish as well as Hilly(pity, another nation disgraced by them).

irina said...

Just a thought: how rotten people should be to defend the parents instead of abandoned daughter.

surreynista said...

123,123

Can you hear me at the back?

supertroll said...

And also Irina how rotten are people who are constantly making up silly ghoulish stories and posting poisonous rumours about two parents who are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, in a sick libellous blog?

LittleGreyCell said...

Aaaarrrrgggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

felicity said...

Be careful McCann supertroll - be nice or you get your posts disappear into cyberspace again at the click of a button

I AM IN CONTROL HERE - GET IT?

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Viv,

Rosiepops is indeed having another period when she's not feeling herself.

I can see what you mean about the masculinity of the recent posts - the spelling, too, is a giveaway.

Where do you think the original Rosiepops has gone? I have a theory that as the stress levels rise, members of the family are comforting Kate, thus requiring cover for The Prolific One...

X LGC

supertroll said...

Whatever you say Viv (yawn),
I am really curious here, which witch hunt is bigger, the one against the McCanns or the one against Rosiepops?
:)

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
How sad these people are...like children who have never grown up really. More to be pitied.
I think too the yawn which accompanied the last post is a bit of a giveaway as to the poster, she continually yawns on the DE, maybe has spent too much time reading her own posts as they contain nothing of any substance...Lizzy 21.30pm

felicity said...

Irina

Hi your theory is interesting. I have always thought these financial backers are just in it for themselves and the revenue it may bring through advertising. It is indeed looking very bleak for the McCanns and it does seem the investigation is now in its closing stages. We know what comes next.

I agree it is good news the Home Office dont want to talk about it - they would not wish to do anything to prejudice the trial of these two. How good would it be if their defence barrister could say even the government were spinning against them - the government are better advised than that! If the McCanns were going to be cleared the government would be saying so pretty damn quick to stop the criticism of them. The fact that they are not speaks volumes!

Good for the Scots, not supporting Gerry just because he was Scottish born. I bet you have to be a decent person to be a member of the clan!

McCann supertroll - I am pleased you know your place on here. You can go off and talk to yourself again on redundant threads as you did yesterday or you can pop off back to the Daily Express - your little gang members are missing you!

LGC - Doc thinks the original Rosiepops was someone else too - I am not so sure! I can recall the original one generally sounded pretty thick domineering and ignorant but then occasionally wrote something quite amazing - I recall a really legal sounding responde to one of my posts about the duties of fund directors - mind you Esther McVey has a law degree! and has clearly considered her position - wise lady!

Great to hear from you again

Luv Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Lizzy,

Isn't it interesting about their complete lack of morality? That they think it's OK to lay into people who are genuinely questioning all possible theories as to what has become of a little girl, and their belief that it's morally justifiable NOT to question the very people who are by far the most likely to have something to do with her disappearance.

Totally bereft of morality, in my view.

X LGC

felicity said...

Hiya LCG It is interesting indeed - it says a lot about their personality style. They cannot relate to a helpless little child or the wider issue this throws up about serious child abuse. Sadly we had the most appalling example in the news today. Any people who side with murderers to get them out on technicalities are very frightening people. Did you read the piece in the Guardian - that senior barristers are saying that because human rights were breached by police bugging private conversations between suspects and their lawyers in prison many very serious criminals could have their convictions declared unsafe, and indeed the whole investigation, rendering the prospect of a re-trial impossible. As a result even Huntley could be released. I know I have a law degree but this does not stop me from sometimes saying what an ass the law can be. Are the human rights of Huntley more important than those of his victims and their families and the general public's right to be protected from the very serious risk of harm that he poses?

Not impressed! I hope to god these senior lawyers are wrong and we do not see that animal released, ever!

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Viv,

It's the syntax particularly that stands out for me - one minute, Rosiepops is a rambling Rosiepops, post-middle aged feistiness and a little old-fashioned; the next, she's the lovechild of Ali G and Homer Simpson.

I think 'she' had several alter egos the day of CM's audition for Clarence and His Amazing Technicolour Dream Ticket at the LSE. (Pays 75 grand a year for the duration of the run!).

Lovely to be back in the land of the breathing, Viv, I can tell you.

X LGC (with a nose more orange than Opus')

irina said...

Well, troll, here are the sad facts:
We were witnessing through the months how PJ investigation was challenged by the parents who managed by the means of rotten connections to engage on their side big business, gov., media, how PJ still managed to proceed with the only one backed by evidence(ask FSS)line of inquiry(parents killed the little girl.
We recently witnessed the biggest spin by suspects yet (while the enquiry is entering conclusion stage (which is bureaucratic by nature).
We will witness next the ruins of McCanns empire (no matter how hard you are trying to hold your backers now, it is lost cause).
Sad, sad, sad for all those caring for children. And yet relieve: she did not suffer worth fate.

LittleGreyCell said...

Oh Viv,

Don't get me started on human rights!

They've been hijacked by the Unfeasibly PC Brigade (and I say this as an out and out liberal), and much common sense has gone right out of the window. Swoosh.

Idiots.

Next they'll be telling us it's our human right to be able to kill our children.

***** (it's your human right to guess what the asterisks stand for).

X LittleGrittedTeeth

supertroll said...

Relieved she did not suffer worst fate!
How can you say something like that? How much worse can her fate be?
And here I am accused of caring more of the fate of the parents than that of the child while others here seem to want the child dead just to prove right their own silly sick theories.

irina said...

Viv, I was reading Chesterton now (Father Brown) and it came to my mind that at his times people were convicted at the common sense evidence: like there was a dead body in apartment, you are telling the lye about your movements, no breaking in your apartment = you are guilty.
And nowadays even forensic evidence is not a proof, not mentioning common sense.
What a leap law made in favour of the criminals!

felicity said...

Hiya LGC I appreciate what you are saying about Rosiepops. I think I have said in the past she is a bit like a puppet with Gerry pulling the strings. You do make a good point that sometimes there is definitely an older, school maam type coming through and most definitely feisty (go back and read what I just said) but then on other occasions someone who is very quick, far too savvy to fit with this persona - then it is much more pure Gerry. This person can knock posts out really fast and knows an awful lot about computing modern internet language etc.

So perhaps what we are thinking is this Rosiepops character is cherished by Team McCann as a star player in its defence - Gerry and CM have a great deal of input and on occasions stand ins have to do the job. As you say you can see this by weak, short posts - very easy to attack. Holding posts if you will till the boss gets back.

Rosie currently is demonstrating extreme desolation and attempts at boosting a flagging ego...disappears when seriously challenged. The drones get upset!

Viv x

felicity said...

Sorry LGC - I am so glad your red nose and sneezing is better and great to have you back on your usual top form. OPUS must have been getting that Omega and all manner of good things down you to get his mum better :-)

Luv Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

Supertroll,

Are you saying you'd rather Madeleine had been taken by a paedophile, be appallingly abused every day by countless evil men and - should she manage at some stage to be rescued - to have the rest of her life completely destroyed in every respect, and possibly have tendencies to suicide, because of these horrendous experiences?

Do you actually have any idea of what life is like for such people?

Are you incapable of even the most basic empathy?

supertroll said...

Would you rather she was dead?

LittleGreyCell said...

Dear Viv,

Ta! Opus was a complete star - as I wrote on a rare appearance on the DX earlier, he plied me with herring soup, fishcakes and regular peguincetamol (the parrots had the last of the paracetamol).

And he now understands the importance of having a happy nose as well as Happy Feet.

X Penguin Lover

LittleGreyCell said...

Supertroll,

Not at all. I'd rather she had been born into a family who, at the very least, had thought enough of her to ensure she was in safe hands every single night of her life.

Stop trying to twist words. It's not making the McCanns any less culpable for what happened to her - whatever that is.

felicity said...

Hi Irina

I am not so sure the law has move that much in favour of criminals. In many respects it has been made harder for them. The right to silence has been dramtically weakened in the UK but I dont know about Portugal. Yes they have the right to remain silent but if they do - adverse inferences of guilt can be drawn against them. So the prosecution say to the McCanns - we have forensic evidence of Maddie being dead in your apartment - Kate we have evidence you handled a dead body in jeans you did not buy until you were in Portugal. Please explain that - if they fail to explain the inference can then be drawn. The prosecution lay the table for the jury in this country. If they think everything on that table in total adds up to them being guilty then they can convict. Forensic evidence cannot really stand alone any more than circumstantial evidence but when you put them both together and you add into that lies, inconsistency, impossible abduction theories being insisted upon, bugged telephone conversations etc IMO you have an overwhelming case - this is what I believe the PJ have.

Viv x

irina said...

LGC, let say I have some human rights studies behind me, and, not claiming to be right, I see as an absolute truth that one person human right is the rest of the globe responsibility to guarantee that right. Meaning my right to be safe is negating the right of others to neglect their children and let them become criminals, my right for fresh air is responsibility of the globe to not to pollute or smoke in my presence. You know what I mean. Right has another side of responsibility, and society should choose what is more important for its survival.
Somebody thinks they have right to swear, but I think I have right not to be swear at my presence. What is superior?
It is easier and more populous for the Gov. to allow individual rights to dominate society rights.
For one it allows little group to dominate, and other it does not cost much to enforce.

irina said...

Viv, thank you for that explanation. In the law matters I am not a specialist. Though I have studied a history of law, but not practice.
Sometimes it seems frightening on what ground criminals can get away with it.
But due to McCanns publicity campaign (thank you Mcs!) they will never get away with it.
Pity OJ did not do the same!

felicity said...

thabks irina going to hav to stop typing hand hurting again but am stll here reading

tens on it

viv

irina said...

Have you read the new spinn?
DX:
PORTUGUESE police are preparing to end their hunt for Madeleine McCann, the country’s justice minister said last night.


The "conclusion of the case" did not convince the financers?

Which last night? It is only 22.39,
which country are they in, Japan?

felicity said...

sickening - they have been huntin for poor body

irina said...

Before going to bed.
The pros on DX forum are feeling lonely and saying that antis did give up. But they did not notice that there have been 2 more articles since. Rosie incarnation is on. I think Viv you are right, they take turns: gerry...kate...clara...phelomena...side kick....
Good Night!

LittleGreyCell said...

Irina,

Yes, I, too, studied human rights - albeit briefly - during my politics degree. And in my opinion, they've become a mockery of what they were originally designed to do...

...the thing is, these days people can claim almost ANYTHING as their human rights, and they can make it as trivial as they like.

Human Rights should, in my opinion, preserve the sanctity of life, give equality to men and women alike, and protect certain freedoms and individual choice such as association with others, language, religion, voting, ability to travel and so forth.

Not everything can be a 'human right'. Yet sadly, because common sense flexible application of the law has become unfashionable, convicted criminals - including child killers - may possibly have their convictions quashed because the institutions are run by morons. It's complete madness.

There are different kinds of rights and not all of them should be 'human'. Human rights should be mandatory and un-negotiable for everyone in the whole world, in my opinion. These are the most important factors on which to base human life. Ian Huntley should not have access to all of them.

My carpet is duly chewed.

X LGC

felicity said...

judge e barrister like to play law - must be rigidly applied regardless consequences!

felicity said...

great thread again

THANKSXXXXXXX

Ecolab said...

Hi Viv

So much for me to catch up. Hope you are okay



Greetings from Denmark

eurekamano said...

Hi Viv, glad you have eliminated the undsirable Mcfamily member. Sky News have got it all wrong again tonight. Martin Brunt has misinterpreted what the Portuguese minister meant by 'conclusion', ie. coming to the end of the investigation stage, not closing the case, I'm sure. eureka

felicity said...

HIYA eco and eureka good to hear from you.

There is a continuing assumption by CM British people cannot read and understand what is said in Portugal - too bad! we can!

I just cannot see the point of all of this spin - he is just riling people up more and more. I thought the McCanns thought it was important to keep Portuguese and UK people on side - is this how thy go about it!

We are coming to the definitive closing stage of the investigation now. Seems that they will continue to create some news in the meantime! A read of rosiepops lately tells you how desperate they are feeling. Maybe sometimes just shutting up and doing nothing is the best policy - esp when you are guilty as hell! Gerry just has to be busy feeling he is controlling th investigation or the adverse press against him or whatever - control off mate!

Vivx

felicity said...

by the way eureka undesirable mcfamily member te hee!

viv x

lizzy said...

13.02.2008 13.02.2008
Maddie: Minister assured that the investigation was not affected


"I have evidence that the statements by the National Director of the PJ, did not affect the progress of the investigation," said the Minister of Justice of Portugal, Alberto Costa, during his questioning before the parliamentary committee News of Constitutionnels, rights, freedoms and guarantees where he had been invited to explain the recent statements by National Director of the Judicial Police, Alipio Ribeiro to Case Madeleine McCann.

"It was my duty to maintain confidence in the national director of the Judicial Police, said Alberto Costa, adding that" any other attitude would have resulted had the biggest drawbacks. "

" In response to parliamentarians, the Minister has ensured that the statements by the National Director of the Judicial Police did not violate the secrecy of Justice if it did "there would have been an investigation."

The national director of the Judicial Police, Alipio Ribeiro, said during an interview that there had been "hasty" at the time of the designer couple as arguidos McCann.

. About investigators Madeleine case, the Minister has defended "they are people experienced, professional, mature, which is not - as some articles have suggested - restless, unmotivated intimately e frustrated by any word that has been said in terms more or less debatable. "


Português: "Estamos numa fase em que caminhamos para a conclusão do processo" Português: "Estamos numa fase caminhamos em que para a conclusão do processo"

Français: "Nous sommes dans une phase où nous avançons vers la conclusion de la procédure" French: "We are in a phase where we move towards the conclusion of the proceedings"

English "We are in a phase in which we are approaching a conclusion of the process" English "We are in a phase in which we are approaching a conclusion of the process"

Mis à jour 16H40 Modified 16H40
Viv, read this on SOS Maddie thought it might be of interest.

Graça said...

Today i have seen all the session in pt parliament committee where questions were asked to minister Alberto Costa, the Portuguese minister of justice about the words that Alipio Ribeiro said in a previous interview about the McCann case.
1- The minister said that “ It was my duty to maintain confidence in the national director of pj, another approach would have greatest drawbacks”
2- Asked about whether there has been violation of the secrecy of Justice with these statements, Alberto Costa assured that if that were the case, "there would be an investigation right now," particularly in the Attorney General's office.
3- "I have indications that the current top of the case was not affected by this moment,"( meaning by the words proffered by Mr Alipio Ribeiro)
4- The minister is convinced that the statements of Alípio Ribeiro had no influence on the process.
5- The minister thinks that the pj investigators are not too “sensitive “about one or two words that could be said and stop investigators to the completion of the process.
6- Alberto Costa said he does not know whether or not Alípio Ribeiro spoke truth when he said that there has been precipitation in the constitution of the couple McCann as arguidos in the case of the disappearance of her daughter, because he does not have, did not have to have and does not want to have all the information about the ongoing investigation.
7- Opposition concluded that the statements of the Director of the PJ had negative consequences for the credibility of the judiciary in Portugal.
8- Alberto Costa also said that it was premature to say that the words said by Mr Ribeiro means the failure to a criminal investigation, the investigation is still ongoing but is approaching to the end.

To me this means that the pj have collected all the evidence possible, they are certain that no abduction took place, they know that Madeleine is dead but they don’t have yet a conclusive result to who had committed the crime. That´s why the minister also states the British statistics in similar cases, witch mention that 80% remain unsolved.
The investigation approaching to an end can mean that the case is to be closed, or charges are about to be laid, or when cases are about to be made cold cases because there is not currently enough evidence in file to prosecute. When you have exhausted all viable leads and have amassed all the evidence you think you will be able to find, you have another go at interviewing suspects, then you sit down with the prosecutor and make a decision about what happens next.
I do not believe that the case is going to be closed because the pj are still waiting to interview the tapas, but I truly believe that the abducting theory is completely ran out, other wise the case could not be close or shelved.
About the rogatory letters to interview the tapas I am a little pessimistic about the results, even if the home office authorize these, the tapas may only be present if they whish to do so ,and even if the pj wants to ask questions that could lead to change their status from witness to arguidos, they can do so but they can refuse to answer the questions and there is no development in the case.(viv maybe you have something to add or argue about this, because you have your knowledge in law that I do not have, and I may be completely wrong)

For justice to Madeleine lets all hope that the pj really have enough evidence to make charges, because to me their parents are involved up to their necks. And also hope that politics stop to interfere with a criminal investigation witch I still have many doubts that will happen.

Ps: VIV, sorry for my English, I am Portuguese, I admire you, keep this wonderful work, I used to post very rarely in DX by the name of mtoosad.

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie thank very much for that.

At least our press did accurately quote that remark:

We are in a phase in which we are approaching a conclusion of the process

Graca

Your English is great and it was really helpful to have an accurate reflection of the exchange from a Portuguese poster. This is so helpful to us and thank you so much.

I do not disagree with your comments at all. I think it is a very accurate summary of what the PJ may have to face. They know for sure Madeleine is dead and the McCanns disposed of the body. Much will depend upon the outcome of the final interrogations as to what charges they can actually proceed with, but I do think some charges will be made. I think I need to be careful now in not saying any more than that - clearly this site is read by those who are McCanns or very close to them as remarks made by Rosie on the Daily Expres tonight confirm.

NIGHT MAUREEN, PEDRO, CHINA AND ALL

14.02.08, 12:33am





Sleep well take care.



I have to be up early today, got an unusual day ahead, need to rest for the intricacies of my


work, must get to the heart of the matter and need to be at my best.



God Bless Madeleine xxx God Bless Mari xxx

• Posted by: Rosiepops



In light of that I would not wish to harm the case by saying too much now.

I look forward to hearing more from you and that was a really great post. Thanks so muchx

Viv x

felicity said...

From the one who claims to have a son at med school in Leics and is likely to meet Gerry as he moved into that specialist area:

BYE PJ
13.02.08, 8:57pm

Im off now . Just popping to the local for a quick one . The kids are fast asleep and Im sure they wont wake up . Dont worry Im going to lock the door . You cant be too careful .

• Posted by: mark55


So leaving kids on their own whilst you go round the pub is reason to make a sick joke - well on their own story that caused Maddie to get abducted by a paedophile - amusing? This guy fantacises about his children - one minute it is two little boys jumping all over his computer, another occasion he has a 13 month old little girl who they cannot hear when she is in bed - excusatory for the McCanns - you know even if you are home you cannot even hear the kids so you may as well go round the pub...Mark55 comes up on an internet search as an 18 year old schoolboy - same age as the relative who designed their webpage and the standard of his writing would say not very bright 18 year old (says he is dentist!)

What a bunch of perverted fantacists.
Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
This was written by Tylermum on 3 ar's Iam sure she will not mind sharing it with us.


Sentinel if you google Home Office Guidleines Mutual Legal Assistance you will get a document.Page 5 makes it quite clear that interviews are voluntary and that although a witness may be compelled a suspect cannot.In Scotland the situation is even more ridiculous as there you can force a suspect to court but once at court there is nothing you can do to make him talk, so another total waste of time.
IF the interviews take place it will be done under the defence lawyers terms so I think you can forget about it being done in Leicester.In the case of ROB and JT if a lawyer agreed to an 8 hour round trip for his clients and a 4 hour round trip for himself where he had no need to he would be a prat.
A defence lawyer will also say "My client will speak to you only as a witness not a suspect"
The PJ will agree as if they don't then no interview takes place.If during the interview the questions change to those of a suspect then the lawyer ends the interview.Clarence then holds a press conference in which he claims that the lawyer was forced to stop the interview due to the PJ changing the pre arranged guidelines.

This is why it has taken the PJ so long just to compose the questions.The questions will be ALL written down and will be worded to make sure that the interviewee stays a witness and not a suspect.So basically they can be compelled to answer questions about the McCanns but not themselves.

The only way to get the interviews conducted properly but this doesn't look like a probable outcome at the moment is for the PJ to drop the McCanns arguido status and for everyone to be arrested under English law.A homicide committed by a British citizen abroad is an offence under section 9 Offences Against the Persons Act 1861 the English police could investigate on those grounds.
9.07

dolores said...

Viv
I am not to clear about the correctness of the above,and will leave it to you to absorb for us.
luv
xx 9.45
Looks like C.M.or G is going to have a busy day......

2345 said...

Supertroll,

"An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain taype of broke larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fractured skull". FSS information released on BBC 6 o'clock news - 7 September - presented to McCanns at interview on which they were named 'arguidos'.

Far better Madeleine died instantaneous death at the hand of one her parents than suffer the horrendous sexual abuse meted to Sarah Payne, Jessica & Holly - after which they were 'put to death'.

Those, including yourself, who welcome abduction by a paedophile over and above hard forensic evidence of fatal injuries in the apartment are sick - detached from reality.

The only question is how much are you paid to defend the guilty parents - and - support non-existent paedophile(s) ? 10.00 a.m.

2345 said...

littlegreycell,

Human rights - Madeleine had the same right to life as the person who ended her own. She also had the right to legal protection whilst alive; her right to legal protection remains until the case is concluded in line with Police procedures.

A person on 3A's sight is looking into making an application for Guardian ad litem; Madeleine has had no voice since 3 May and her parents are the prime suspects in her death and disappearance. Independent Guardians are legally appointed in cases of custodial sentencing of parents. 10.10 a.m.

merc said...

Anyone having problems getting into the 3a site?

dolores said...

Viv,
Now we know why a certain someone is busy today)

CM on radio4 @ 7.15
CM & Mark Williamson GMTV this morning
Sounds like a desperation job here,
PJ must be on the way.
I have not heard either but looking for a link.
XX
12.55

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Just to let you know that I believe Rosiepops is not the original person who started posting on DE, she made a curious remark to me the other night, saying you don't really know who you are speaking to on here do you?
I realised then, I know you are well aware that there is something not right there, anyway enough about him. I am posting in my lunch hour, will have a quick look on your site to see if there is any news. lizzy

2345 said...

merc,

I've had no problems accessing 3 A's site, several times this morning and a check a few moments ago when I read your post. 14.20

Cláudia said...

Hello, all.
As you can all see, the British press has, once again, lied on purpose regarding what Alberto Costa said yesterday on Parliament.
Oh well, what a surprise...

Beijinhos, my dear Viv.

2345 said...

Claudia,

The only people reporting substantiated 'news' are Forum members. Clarence has totally destroyed the credibility of most tabloids. Everyone I know is totally sickened by his blatant dishonesty. 17.25 p.m.

eurekamano said...

Hi Viv, Just read some fascinating posts on 3As from 'thentherewere4'.
They are on the "Reference and Investigations" thread, and the Topic is,"Shutters Plan Action Oldfield K's Check Taxi RDV Beach Villa".
Some intruiging theories which fit the timeline, some may be correct, though I'm not sure that poor Murat should be implicated in this. What do others think?

merc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
merc said...

Sorry but don't find thentherewere4 posts any more fascinating or less speculative than any others.

dolores said...

Viv,
I have bought thi over from Sky News for you, especially for the comment to him,someone not agraid to speak up.
xx

Cop Confusion In Madeleine Hunt
February 14, 2008
By Sky News crime correspondent Martin Brunt

I've almost given up trying to analyse announcements about the Madeleine case from Portuguese officials.

Everything that appears to be a clue, a development or admission of incompetence is then contradicted. And usually blamed on a poor translation.

Even those with fluent Portuguese struggle to understand the nuances of the country's complicated legal system.

So how am I expected to wade through the confusion?

The latest comes from the justice minister who claims, apparently, that the case is to be wrapped up with detectives conceding defeat.

They just don't know what happened to Madeleine.

In the wake of all this, I get two calls from colleagues in Portugal warning me to treat the story with care.

"It's still not clear what is being said," says one caller.

And that's from someone whose judgement is pretty good, but even he doesn't know what it means.

One thing is clear. The Madeleine story is going off the boil for the British media.

Page 23 in the Daily Express! Behind a photo spread revealing how much celebrity sons look like their mums. And it's not even Mother's Day.

Written by Martin, February 14, 2008
Comments
Martin.

Surely by now, you must have
realized that for a Country,
who follows a secrecy law,
they"re not going to put everything into plain old english just for us.

Why should they anyway?

The PJ should have been left alone to get on with their job, and the not so Honorable British Press should now leave them alone to do just that, and stop printing mis-
interpretations, if they are not confident in what was actually said.

If there is any more reporting
then at least stick to the truth and if they dont know it dont print.

I think we have all had it up to here with spin,and yesterday for me was the limit.

I have come to the point
where, I now hope that the Portuguese are leading you all up the garden path,until
they are ready to bring some conclusion, to what can only be described as a very complex case.You know that Martin. And what has been insinuated about the
Portuguese people and their Judicial system, is disgraceful.

Bottom line Martin is that
its starting to sound like no one can do anything better than we british.

As for the story going off the boil, what story? there has never been any Investigative Journalistic story anyway.
You all allowed yourselves to
be guided by Clarence Mitchell.Well done.

For the past several months there is no honour in being British.

Truly annoyed now with the press.

Yours Sincerely as ever.

Sandra Ryan.

Posted by: Sandra Ryan. Spain. 14 Feb 2008 17:04:46

18.54

lizzy said...

Hu Dolores
Good for Sandra Ryan who has said what the majority of people believe, hope Martin Brunt reads that. Lizzy 19.45

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores and everyone

I read the post by Tylersmum and have to say that legally it is highly inaccurate. I have read her posts before - sometimes she gets it right on more simple issues but as on this occasion I have to say I just dont know where she gets it from!

Firstly under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 a person who has committed homicide abroad can be investigated and prosecuted here. So very clearly our own police have clear jurisdiction against the McCanns. It is just that they are deferring to the very competent investigation being carried out by PJ.

Secondly any witness failing to co-operate with the police in a homicide investigation is likely to go to jail!

See relevant extract from the Crown Prosecution Service guidelines below which makes the position crystal clear. Defence solicitors DO NOT dictate to the police what is going to happen!

Assisting an offender - section 4(1) Criminal Law Act 1967
(Archbold 18-34)

The offence of assisting an offender ("the principal offender") is committed when:-

the principal offender has committed an arrestable offence;
the accused knows or believes that the principal offender has committed that or some other arrestable offence;
the accused does any act with intent to impede the apprehension or prosecution of the principal offender; and
the act is done without lawful authority or reasonable excuse.
It is an offence triable only on indictment unless the principal offence is an either way offence, in which case the offence of assisting a principal offender is also triable either way. The maximum sentence for the offence varies from three to ten years' imprisonment, depending on the punishment applicable to the principal offence: s.4(3).

Proceedings may only be instituted by or with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions: s.4(4). Consent may be granted after charge but must be before committal proceedings (indictable offences) or mode of trial (either way offences). Consent must be obtained before proceedings are started by way of summons. It is not an offence to attempt to commit an offence under section 4.

Examples of the type of conduct appropriate for a charge of assisting an offender include:-

hiding a principal offender;
otherwise assisting a principal offender to avoid arrest;
assisting a principal offender to abscond from bail;
lying to the police to protect principal offenders from investigation and prosecution;
hiding the weapon used in an assault/robbery;
washing clothes worn by a principal offender to obstruct any potential forensic examination.
There may be an overlap between the offence of assisting an offender and obstructing a constable, wasting police time, concealing arrestable offences (s.5(1) Criminal Law Act 1967) and perverting the course of justice.

The courts have made it clear that assisting an offender is a serious offence and, if the statutory offence of assisting an offender can be charged, it should normally be preferred over common law offences.

However, the common law offence of perverting the course of justice should be considered when:-

the assisting is aimed at preventing or hindering the trial process (as opposed to the arrest or apprehension of an accused);
the facts are so serious that the court's sentencing powers for the statutory offence are considered inadequate;
admissible evidence of the principle offence is lacking.
Assisting an offender is sometimes not an easy offence to prove since it requires proof that the principle committed an arrestable offence and that the accused knew or believed this. In the absence of such proof, other public justice offences, such as obstruction or perverting the course of justice, can provide alternative charges.

felicity said...

I will second that Lizzie - good for Sandra Ryan. There is something refreshingly honest about the Portuguese press - e.g. Correio de manha the one I find most accesible and easy to translate and understand. They do not put their own top spin on what has been said - they just tell it like it is good or bad. The frequently report what has been stated in British press - just word for word - even though it may be completely false and highly critical of the PJ etc - they just accurately report it and let people form their own conclusions. Now I can hazard a guess as to what Portuguese people may think of British press having read it! Not only is it honest, it is clever. It is a bit like sometimes it is just best for people to leave the McCann nasties twittering away among themselves on the Daily Express. Then people can see just what rubbish they write and how nasty they are. No comment needed really!

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
Thanks for the time you have taken in explaining my query on this.It is so fascinating, and very enlightening.
Did you see CM on the news tonight?
He was more or less on for about a minute,And repeated the garbage from yesterday.More spin, He has lost all credibility with the public IMO, and it is going in the opposite direction to what he intended.

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

I have been out all day and I am really just reading my web page so you can all tell me what is going on:-) I think Gerry and Clarence are just to far gone to see or accept the error of their ways. Give them enough rope... I think the public just need to chill a bit and stop worrying about CM/Gerrymandering. Just like witnesses and their solicitors dont dictate to the police what is going to happen neither does this hapless pair - much as they may try!

Luv Viv x

Thanks for all the info!

dolores said...

Hi Lizzie
The post from Sandra Ryan was on the Sky blog,I am sure he will read it,and hopefully pay attention,more direct criticism is needed to make them take note of what the public want to read,not fairy stories.

SueB said...

Hi Viv

Mark55? You're wrong - he's actually a gay man from Montana...

http://www.requestadate.com/gay_dating_profile/mark55.html

SueB said...

Oops, forgot the time - 20.30hrs - :-)

felicity said...

LOL Sue - I wonder which he prefers - 18 year old schoolboy or 40 year old gay man!

Viv x

dolores said...

SueB
Hahahaaaa
I don't beleive it oh dear, he is never going to live this down, Hello Docmac, did you see this?

20.40

dolores said...

Viv,
He has claimed he is a dentist,it seems it is more than teeth he is pulling.....lol
xx
20.44

felicity said...

Ola Claudia

Great to hear from you minha querida amiga!

We are just a little weary of the British press and their insult to our intelligence:-)

Beijinhos e ambracos!
Com amor
Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Lizzie

YOu said:

Rosiepops is not the original person who started posting on DE, she made a curious remark to me the other night, saying you don't really know who you are speaking to on here do you?

---------------

ummmm usual - arrogant, threatening, egotistical. I think last night there were a lot of rapid fire posts from Chinadoll, eloquently written but pleading and desperate .. who is able to stay up later and the usual gerrymandering - it was the full on Kate and Gerry show! They chatted very nicely and complemented each other so well I thought:-)

Viv x

felicity said...

guardian ad litem's are qualified social workers sometimes also lawyers appointed to represent living children when there are court proceedings directly concerning them - generally care proceedings e.g. because they have been abused by a parent and the Social Services are taking action under the Children Act to get a care order. Not appropriate in relation to a dead child. Their best interests do not need to be preserved in the court proceedings. It becomes an issue of justice for the dead child, and proper punishment of the parents.

Viv x

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
I agree with your their personalities shine through,as does their arrogance,I only post for short times on the DE now as they irritate me with their rubbish comments and nastiness late at night.That poster from Sandra on Sky was heartening, good to see there are people who will stand up to these weak willed journalists. Lizzy 21.30

LittleGreyCell said...

Evening Everyone,

On the interpretation of the "process" nearing its conclusion, it seems to me that the PJ must have SOMETHING to go on if they reached the stage of sending rogatory letters. Something concrete must be present to justify them pursuing suspects across Europe to get them - in very difficult political circumstances - to answer their very carefully composed questions.

Why on earth would the PJ be saying NOW they will never know the answer to Madeleine's disappearance?

The only reason (in my opinion) they would be doing this at this stage is because of political interference at the highest level.

CM's modus operandi seems to be whatever adverse news comes out, just deny it and paddle like mad. (And STILL he doesn't realise how this is so blatantly obvious and how much it alienates the public! Not to mention makes them suspicious to a far higher degree than they might have been).

There's a very interesting book just published by Nick Davies, an investigative writer for the Guardian, about how propaganda and PR are both now presented as 'news' in the major media outlets. Shame Clarence missed out on the publishing rights, eh?

X LGC

LittleGreyCell said...

Erm, 9.35!

felicity said...

Hiya LGC - How are you tonight?

Great post as ever:-)

ermmm 21.39

PS I just had a look at the DE but could not stay as I thought I would die of boredom! What unmitigated crap!

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv and all,
This is briefly what was said on GMTV.
I did not see this myself,
apparently CM looked shell shocked haggard and unshaven.


GMTV interview this morning with CM & Mark Williams Thomas 14/2/08
CM
Police must accept they are innocent

Police can come over here to Britain and get on with it.....

Bottom line is there can be no conclusion

Either Maddie is reunited with her parents or that they know what has happened to her.

Interview then with English detective Mark Williams Thomas in studio.

Says there has been a shift over last 10 days

Says that the PJ have admitted they were too hasty

And case is effectively closed.

Case will probaby go into "standby " mode....or close....

Asked by John S to comment on PJ`s handling of case.

He said that they hadn`t done basics and so were now "treading water"
He was asked how much faith he had in Metodo3?

Reply was that they were doing a good job and they were all very pleased by their hard work on the ground in handling info and responding to sightings

Then he was asked about Metodo getting Maddie home for Xmas claim

CM said that Franco didn`t actually say that .He said "God willing she will be home for Xmas "

And it was the way it had been reported by the press.!

He said it was however "unhelpful"

But they were doing the best job on Madeleine`s behalf.....
.
Mark S. Williams
This will sadlly go on back burner as an unsolved mystery he said

But likely PJ will come over and interview Tapas 9/then changed it to Tapas 7!!

Interview ends with John S saying our sympathy lies with MM`s poor parents and would Mark W T send them their very best wishes.......
Finishes with Fiona saying she can`t wait for the day when she sees Clarence with a big smile on his face with good news.

supertroll said...

Nothing else to post tonight.
Goodnight everyone

SueB said...

Viv/Dolores - hahaha :-)

Have you read this about a 'teenage' girl being left alone?

A "Shirley Valentine" has been warned she could face jail for leaving her teenage daughter at home alone while she visited her toyboy lover.

The mother left the 14-year-old with £100 and a fridge full of food, magistrates in Welshpool, Powys heard.

She denied wilfully causing the girl to be neglected and abandoned but the court convicted her and she was bailed.

The neglect included allowing her underage daughter to have sex with a boy, while she was away for six weeks.

The woman now wishes she had not left her daughter alone, the court was told.

The court heard the woman, who cannot be identified, went abroad for six weeks last April.

She was visiting her boyfriend, intending to arrange a British visa for him, while her teenage daughter remained in her home with her own boyfriend.

The mother said she filled the fridge and freezer with meals and arranged for a neighbour and her ex-husband, the girl's father, to look after her.

Missed her mother

The court heard £60 of the cash she left went on school dinners , and that she bought clothes and CDs with the remainder.

Social services were contacted after two days and the girl was then cared for by her father. Her mother returned in June.

On the first day of the trial last month, prosecutor Shaun Spencer said the teenager told police: "She shouldn't have left me on my own".

He added: "She also confessed that she missed her mother."

Defending, Michael Davies told magistrates that the woman "did a Shirley Valentine" and disappeared "without a care for the child and without making adequate arrangements for her to be looked after".

He added: "You may not condone her behaviour, but that is not the issue here."

Mr Davies said the woman believed she had put proper arrangements in place for her daughter's care, and that her father had looked after her on previous occasions.

Sexual relationship

Both the neighbour and the girl's father told the court they were not aware the woman wanted them to look after the girl.

Magistrates heard the woman knew her daughter was having a sexual relationship with a boy and allowed it to take place, which the court ruled was neglect.

The chairman, also called Michael Davies, said the woman was also guilty of abandoning her child.

He said the woman's daughter and her boyfriend were "vulnerable" and had limited funds and no hot water in the house.

He said there were no arrangements for the girl and her boyfriend to stay with a neighbour.

Emotional distress

"As far as she was concerned, she was just keeping an eye on her. No one was left with specific responsibility for them."

Mr Davies said the woman "abdicated her responsibilities" by failing to return when she learned social services and police had become involved.

He said the teenager has suffered emotional distress, and warned the woman could be jailed.

The girl now lives with her father but sees her mother almost every day.

The case was adjourned for sentencing on 10 March and the woman, who has no previous convictions, was bailed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7245389.stm

23.40hrs

felicity said...

Supertroll McCann

Repetitive posts of yours will continue to be removed. You may like the sound of your own voice but I do not.

You are not turning this into a fax of the Daily Express!

Viv x

felicity said...

Hi Sue B

Another parent who just loves herself far more than her child - putting her own needs to have fun abroad first and totally abdicates her responsbility towards her and when the neglect is put to her:


woman believed she had put proper arrangements in place for her daughter's care

Yes I believe she must have thought it was just like she was in the back garden!

Such parents cannot even face it and say sorry can they - no she stayed in Spain even when she knew th police and SSD involved!

See Rosie is in lets blame someone else again mode - back to Murat (YAWN) at least they dont tell us he is a creepy monster it is just "eerie" OH PLEASE!

I hope she gets the custodial sentence she deserves!

Thanks for that
Viv x

felicity said...

Dolores

What an excellant post - so The Pink Shirted One looked

"shell shocked haggared and unshaven"

Serves him right!

Mark Thomas "expert opinion"

Operatationally Metodo 3 are really good and the case is "effectively closed".

Guess what we think of your "expert opinion" little Mr Nobody!

My God Dolores I do believe we have yet another gruesome twosome here!

That was a really great report and a good laugh too.

Claris needs to get himself off the DE forum earlier and into bed sooner when he has an early start :-) ha ha..

CHEERS!

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

PS Were Sky really giving us the "News" or let's play Spin McCann Time - a game show the public grew very bored with and they really ought to drop?

felicity said...

Maureen 7
Published: Thursday February 14,2008 by chinadoll
Your are such a clever girl

10/10 for trying

0/10 for content


----

Now come on Kate - she is only trying to help - you really are very ungrateful and not everyone can be as bright as you. You get one person who believes your spin and you turn on her - what is going on?


Viv :-)

Niki said...

Gerry's Blog
Day 287: 14/02/2008

Yesterday was a busy day on several fronts. Kate and I met with representatives of Missing Children Europe. This is an umbrella organisation that has 21 member non-governmental organisations that are involved in supporting families of missing and exploited children, from 15 EU countries. Missing Children Europe aims to share best practice, ensures a European presence at ICMEC and liases with various European Institutions. www.missingchildren.eu They have played a major role in securing the EU commission supporting a dedicated hotline for missing children: 116 000. The commission is also supportive of the introduction of a child alert system throughout the EU similar to the Amber alert system in the USA. However only a few countries run such a system and there is a lot of work to be done before the system is implemented in many countries, never mind an integrated throughout the EU.

The Portuguese justice minister also spoke to parliament yesterday regarding Mr Ribeiro’s comments about the haste with which we were made arguidos. As I stated at the time, no one can doubt how we have been scrutinised. We hope that, if as reported, the justice minister said the investigation is nearing a close that our arguido status will be lifted in the near future so that everyone can concentrate on searching for Madeleine. We will not give up looking for her until she is found and we hope that the police are similarly determined.

supertroll said...

What a nice entry from Gerry's blog.
While they will never be able to undo their mistake of leaving their child alone, and not being there when she was taken. If they can set The amber alert and help find other children who go missing, some good will have come out of this sorry mess.

2345 said...

Supertroll,

Madeleine was not alone when the cerebal fluid/blood left her body on or around 3 May in her parents' apartment.

The McCanns' long term attempts at covering the TRUTH has, in turn, deprived twins of full time parental care, attention and a stable home life.

Gerry's blog reflects the mentality of psychotic disorder; he's lost touch with reality.

10.00 a.m.

supertroll said...

Very libellous comment 2345.
You are stating these things as fact.

2345 said...

Supertroll,

I never make unsubstantiated comments. Reproducing the transcript of FSS information released on BBC news on 7 September does not constitute libel or slander. I videod Jane Hill's coverage of breaking news; available for Court purposes, if so required, along with verbatim transcript - both in my lawyer's safe keeping.

The McCanns have been at liberty to sue BBC (and their Police informants) for libel since 7 September. The fact that they haven't speaks for itself; the facts released are substantiated and, therefore, in Court terms, non/libellous/slanderous.

Naming and framing innocent parties, a regular occurrence in this case by M 3 and their employers, does constitute defamation of character, menace and harassment. 11.00 a.m.

LittleGreyCell said...

12.35

Hi Viv,

Sorry to have missed your response just after my post last night - I went to bed soon after posting; this bug has really wiped me out. (I'm the woman who puts the 'tire' into 'satire' at the moment).

Very interesting report about the Sky interview from Dolores. Isn't Mark Williams Thomas the guy who has made several pronouncements over the past few months about Madeleine's disappearance in favour of the McCanns? Not sure he hasn't got an agenda going there.

But then, we do live in a PR age. And is this better or worse than years ago when Atlee (possibly - head full of non-brain fluid currently) was being asked by a radio journalist, just prior to a General Election, whether he had anything to say to the nation?

"No", he said.

"Thank you, Prime Minister", said the reporter.

Hmm. Some should possibly take a leaf out that particular book...

X VeryLittleGreyCells

lizzy said...

2345,
Excellent post, am glad you told Supertroll, Gerry is clearly deranged if he thinks anybody would want him to represent missing children in any way. After all he can't look after and care for his own children, is not a responsible parent. As for libellous statements, the Mccanns are not in a position as Arguidos to sue anybody and I very much doubt they would want to appear in a court of law for any reason. But I too heard that report by Jane Hill which has since been deleted, she did say those things and as you say how can it be libellous to repeat substantiated statements.? I don't know if you post on the DE I do sometimes but find Team Mccann irritating in the extreme, so tend to post less regularly. They all condone neglect saying everybody does it...I get fed up trying to say that that is incorrect. I am glad that you post on Viv's site as always enjoyed your posts on DE. Lizzy 12.35

felicity said...

Hi all,

I agree there is nothing nice about the entry on Gerry's blog - it is self-serving behaviour seeking to defend himself and Kate. Given their admitted neglect of their three little children it is absurd that they could in any way serve as ambassadors for childrens' rights. Particularly given his minimisation of the seriousness of what they did. If Kate and Gerry McCann were guilty of no more than that - they could have spearheaded a campaign for parents never to leave their children alone, because of the disastrous consequences this can bring. This would have been positive PR and got the public on side. They are far more concerned about defending criminal allegations against them - convincing people they have something more than neglect to defend.

I am remain convinced that the fact of neglect is not the answer to what happened to Madeleine. On the contrary it is cynically publicised and used by the McCanns as a means of covering what really happened.

I firmly believe Madeleine was already dead when they left her alone on 3 May. That is why they cancelled the babysitter they had booked. That is why they drugged the twins. If Madeleine was not already dead the cadaver dog would not have been able to pick up the scent of the corpse. It has to have there for at least two hours to start to exude those distintive chemical odours the dog is trained to pick up. If they did not leave the apartment until at least 8.30 pm and at 10 pm she had clearly gone - there is insufficient time for her to have died and for her corpse to start exuding those distinctive odours. Therefor she must have been dead before 8.30 - therefore the forensic evidence of her suffering an assault must have been prior to the McCanns leaving the children alone - in short one of them did it and they were both there. If the other wont admit IMO it is highly likely they will both be convicted of her manslaughter - murder if evidence of planning sufficient to prove an intention can be obtained. I remain highly concerned at the apparent framing of Murat and the fact that Gerry refused to confirm or deny whether he already knew him. Whenever reporters ask questions that may implicate them he gets angry.

On the basis of Gerry's demonstrated behaviour including seeking to rest huge sums of money in the name of his dead child I believe it is defensible and reasonable to suggest he suffers from psychopathic personality disorder. This is an opinion, not a fact. Supertroll demonstrates the usual McCann machine lack of knowledge of criminal evidence. Even a trained psychiatrist or psychologist would be offering his expert opinion to the court, not "fact". He may say that in his expert opinion this is what is wrong with Gerry, another expert may disagree. It is then the court's job to be the tribunal of facts - and decide whose expert opinion they choose to accept. In a complex case such as this there could be anything up to five or six pscyhiatric opinions obtained.

Viv x

LittleGreyCell said...

1.55

Hi Viv,

Yes, I too believe that Madeleine was long dead by the time they left the apartment for the Last Supper. The minimum 2 hour thing tells us this has to be the case, but it doesn't tell us up to how long before this she could have died. It could have been as long ago as the previous evening, after K & G had been asked to return from the far away restaurant.

Can't remember - was Kate seen out
at all during the day of the 3rd?

By-the-way, if you want a good laugh, have a look at Rosienot's postings today - here are a couple of quotes from one at 1.00pm:-

"Your mum done what us mums do"

"I do not agree with what they done"

Do you think the kittens have chewed her grammar to threads?

X LGKittens

felicity said...

Hiya LGC!

I agree with what you are suggesting death is likely to have been well before they went out. I do have the vision of perhaps extreme drunken anger when returning from Chaplin's, as little Maddie had been crying - getting them into trouble! Mrs Fenn says that Kate was loud and out of control that night. Quite often the victim will make considerably more noise than the perpetrator..Kate sustained some nasty bruises - when did these happen? It is not unreasonable to assume when she was being loud and out of control...Was there not some report about cadaver smell also being in a cupboard. Also report of forensic evidence in another apartment - Tanner and O'B. If Mrs Fenn heard the commotion which sounds typical of domestic violence then it is a safe bet Tanner and O'B heard it too. Maybe they came around to see what was happening and stumbled upon....

Like you I cannot remember whether Kate was seen on 3 May. If I recall Wilkins partner is not saying Maddie was present at the childrens tennis display - she is saying something about impossible to distinguish among so many little blonds. Surely she would recognise little Maddie - this did seem like a very disingenuous remark! Her partner is clearly a prosecution witness.

Ah...we are getting the rushed posting in the lunch break synrome again form Rosiepotty and yes it does look like the kittens were causing distraction too - impacting upon the grammar - maybe also pschological state?

Interesting how little there was last night from Rosie and Chinadoll. CD was in full flow writing repeated quite lengthy posts but last night sarcy little one liners and getting crabby with Maudlin who posted an old post of Old Hppy listing 22 DE articles instigated by the McCanns.

I see the McCanns had a very busy day yesterday at their conference. They must have been quite worn out and poor Claris had such an early start on GMTV he forgot to shave. On the stressors

Viv x

Viv x

eurekamano said...

Hi Viv, I read in '24 Horos' today that a judicial spokesman has reported today that the McCanns can rest assured that the police investigation will continue as long as it takes to find out what really happened to Madeleine. Also that the PJ still expect that the McCanns will be re-interrogated.
The same Judicial source also stressed that there is to be considered a request to the judge of instruction The Court of Portimão, Pedro Frias, owner of the process, a new extension of
the deadlines for research
(In 90 days), if not an answer arises soon to the letter.
A substantial team will remain on the case and have been interviewing witnesses at Ocean Club.
eureka

felicity said...

Hu Eureka

Thanks - that is great news - it will take as long as it takes but the McCanns will be brough to justice.

I think their determination is also demonstrated by wanting the laptop, cuddlecat and Kate's diary. They would only need these if there was a definite intention to pursue a prosecution. They have a photocopy of the diary so they dont need it just for the investigation but a photocopy would be inadmissible in the actual trial.

The fact the PJ now want actual exhibits just confirms their obvious determination to put these two on trial for what they did.

Vivx

dolores said...

Hi Viv,
This is a paragraph from todays Correio da Manha,could the 8th person be either the quizz person~9forgot her name) who had said to friends no one left the table except K. The other could JC.

xx

CORREIO DA MANHA
15/2/08
While the British [authorities] do not answer [to the Portuguese authorities], the case is still under Justice secrecy and the enquiries [that should be made] to the eight persons who were present at the famous dinner on the night when the mysterious disappearence took place will be put on stand-by.

Kate and Gerry McCann, as well as Robert Murat, who are the main suspects [sic] of some sort of involvment with the crime, remain with the status of arguidos.

14.55

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

I take that to mean they are still awaiting a response from the British to the letters rogatory and that officers are on standby to move as soon as our authorities stop causing delay and let them come over! Perhaps the 8 person include Kate and Gerry but exclude Diane Webster because she has not told any lies so they dont need to grill her? Failing to get up from the dinner table was symbolic IMO - she knew serious scam in progress..she as sickened...she did not want to go and join in the farce..??

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
Here is the full article.

That is possibly true about DW but would she not be an important witness to the lies ie., jemmied shutters as she had gone to look at them when she arrived at the apartment, also the contradictions of the time checksespecially JT.

The investigation concerning Madie's case has is halted at the present moment because it is depending upon an answer from the English, said a source from the Procuradoria Geral da República (PGR) to Correio da Manhã.

The rogatory letters – written in close articulation with the British authorities – were sent (for the second time) at the beginning of January to England through Eurojust (a system that links the European departments of Justice) and are still under analysis.

The PGR does not know how long it will take till this situation is solved [impasse no original], said the same source to CdM.

Only after the letters are appreciated the PJ will know whether they will make new diligencies towards [their efforts] to solve the case of the British little girl who went missing on the 3rd of May at the Luz Village in Algarve.

While the British [authorities] do not answer [to the Portuguese authorities], the case is still under Justice secrecy and the enquiries [that should be made] to the eight persons who were present at the famous dinner on the night when the mysterious disappearence took place will be put on stand-by.

Kate and Gerry McCann, as well as Robert Murat, who are the main suspects [sic] of some sort of involvment with the crime, remain with the status of arguidos.

http://www.correiomanha.pt/noticia.asp? ... l=10&p=200

2345 said...

Lizzy,

I always enjoyed your posts on DE and It's good to catch up with you here. DE permanently banned me at the end of January. I was told it was because I had repeatedly ignored warnings - a lie as I didn't receive one. The real reason was my persistence with the content of Jane Hill's report, which upset Supertroll here today.
Facts are facts and evidence is evidence; I applaud and support PJ & Leicester Police and their brilliant cadavers.

Those needing to snoop around here confirm the levels of stress in the McCann camp.

It's good to see so many familiar names here - Viv is such a hardworking star - I wished I'd joined before - the McCanns' reps in DE were so vile. At Ironside's suggestion, I also joined the3A's, also extremely informative.

I've learned today that Esther McVey is directly linked to a media company tied to 'sock puppet' 'monkeying' activity. Likely she's busy monitoring forums.

I no longer buy DE or read the Forum, it's their loss of revenue. Lots of 3 A's commentators no longer buy the tabloids; the real 'news' is in Forums. 3.50 p.m.

2345 said...

Viv/LGC,

Presumably, British taxpayers funded Gerry's meeting yesterday - taken another day off work I notice for self serving purposes. Were the twins left with relatives or parked in a creche for the day I wonder?

LittleGreyCell said...

4.05

Hi 2345,

Perhaps the twins just got the needle...

Missed this meeting thing yesterday (head full of clouds) - where did Gerry go?

X LGCumulo

2345 said...

Viv - your post 05.38

Well said ... SPOT ON.

Shall we all e-mail Home Office and request no further delays in dealing with Rogatory letters. Let them know we expect no less than full co-operation with PJ & Leicester Police in this criminal investigation. Perhaps 3 A's could so likewise - what are your's and other's thoughts. Civil servants are answerable to the public whatever the circumstances.

I must cook dinner and will catch up later or tomorrow. 4.20 p.m.

ct1538 said...

Hi Viv
Ct, ace crimebuster here. To quote The Sun 'Gotcha' Come along to the station with me, you're under arrest. I have 40 plus questions to ask you. Here is the evidence. Consorting with the opposition eh?

http://dotv.com/p/cams/view.cgi?stream=Mark55&action=bio

On a serious note. Did you see on DE last night. I think it was at about 10.0pm. Christabel, suddenly and out of context, asks Rosiepops why she hasn't been posting during the day. Strange I thought, after the discussion about the same on here earlier. A while later R/p replied to the question in what almost sounded like some sort of code.

ct1538 said...

Whoops, 1801hrs

2345 said...

littlegreycell,

Kate & Gerry attended a meeting to discuss the Amber Alert European project. Apparently, he wrote about it on his blog - reported today on 3 A's. Took another day off work for self promotion.

What sickening behaviour - prime suspects in their daughter's disappearance involving themselves in European parental awareness scheme!! 6.15 p.m.

dylan said...

Happy Friday all!

Phew! What a palaver - I am very computer ignorant and it's taken me ages to work out how to get a G account. I followed the proceedure for sign in but didn't realise that i had to have gmail. So it kept on asking me for a password, over and over again! It wasn't until about the umpteenth time that i finally put two and two together, when i tried to sign in and it told me it didn't recognise my email. So i googled google email and hey presto, here i am!

2345, it is good to read you here. The fact that DE banned you on grounds that they lied about just goes to show what deep and dark goings on there are that are tantalisingly outside of our reach! Further more, I suspect that you are correct in your assumption that it has more to do with what you know about a certain report. That unsaid criteria for banning you speaks a thousand words.

I too have stopped buying tabloids. There's never any news in the de these days and what there is, is a perversion of the truth. Also, they are so full of trash and various, sensationalist slaggings off of the current government that it makes me feel sick. I'm not forking out 40p ever again on paper that was, frankly, best left on the tree!

18.27

dr_val said...

Just posted on 3As, but thought your readers might appreciate it:
"I had this today from Goncalo Amaral in reply to my e-mail of support to the PJ:

Dear Madam

First of all I would like to express my gratitude regarding your e-mail.
Many thanks for your words of support and although I'm no longer directly involved with the investigation of the case,
I remain confident that only the discovering of the truth matters to the police investigation team, and that justice will be made for Madeleine.
Many thanks.
Gonçalo Amaral"

dr_val said...

sorry 19.55 :-)

felicity said...

Wow Dr Val - THAT IS FANTASTIC - THANK YOU SO MUCH


HE IS A TRULY LOVELY MAN

MEANWHILE I URGE EVERYONE TO GET FAXING AND EMAILING :

If you have a fax or a fax programme on your computers guy - more notice is usually taken of that:



Vivx
http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/Page3.asp
Fax the Prime Minister
You can also fax the Prime Minister on 020 7925 0918. (From outside the UK, the number is +442079250918)

You may also wish to approach a government department or agency directly. A number now operate e-mail and telephone enquiry points, and some ministers also have e-mail addresses.

Read a list of which departments are responsible for which issues, including departmental e-mail and postal addresses.

supertroll said...

News from the Joana Morais blog,
Citing 24 Horas


Inspectors carried out five new interrogations

The investigations into the case of the disappearance of Madeleine are not stalled. And they can be extended for another three months.

The Polícia Judicíaria returned, last week, to the Ocean Club, the resort from where Madeleine McCann disappeared on May 3, 2007. 24Horas was able to establish that the PJ's investigators went to hear five witnesses that had already given their depositions within the investigation.

According to senior officials in the PJ, these are normal investigative procedures. "Diligences have been carried out every day. A team of twenty investigators remains on the case, led by superior coordinator Paulo Rebelo. Several questionings have been repeated and the statements are being duly analysed to try to find some lead that might open a new investigation line", a judicial official that is connected to the investigations guaranteed to 24Horas yesterday.

Michaela's boyfriend questioned again

24Horas was able to establish that one of the persons that were questioned again was the boyfriend of Robert Murat's ex-partner, Michaela Walkzuch, a Portuguese man who used to clean the Ocean Club's pools, called Luis Antonio.

Apart from that, the PJ still waits for the McCanns and the friends with whom they had dinner on the evening of the disappearance to be subject to new interrogations, in fulfilment of the rogatory letter that was sent by the Portuguese authorities. The same judicial source also stressed that a new request to the instruction judge at the Portimão Court, Pedro Frias, who holds the process, is being pondered, to extend the investigation deadline for an additional 90 days, if there is not a brief response to the aforementioned letter.

2345 said...

Dr Val,

Thanks for sharing Goncal Amarel's reply. It's as heartwarming as the reply from Leicester Police which I read on 3 A's and from Dove in this Forum. Great news.
8.15 p.m.

2345 said...

Dylan,
Sorry to read about your problem signing on. I'm IT phobic so must have managed it more by luck than judgment !! United we stand - what a heartwarming reply Dr Val's posted from Goncal Amarel. 8.20 p.m.

felicity said...

Thanks supertroll

The standard of your posts is improving :-)

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya Dillie - great to hear from you and I am really sorry it was so difficult for you to get back on.

I entirely agree the Daily Express is not reporting news at all - the forums are providing the news like that fantastic email Dr Val let us see from Goncalo Amaral:

JUSTICE WILL BE MADE FOR MADELEINE!

How utterly fantastic! I wish he was still on the Team!
IMPORTANT NOTE TO ALL
As we do seem to have lost some posters since I change the site to registration can I take a vote on how people feel about de-registering again - particularly now Supertroll is behaving?

One of our favourite posters has expressed a view to me that he will not post whilst the site requires such registration to security concerns he has with google. It is a great shame to lose him:-)

Thanks
Viv

felicity said...

CT - oh no you caught me out trying to cavort with barky - well he does sound so sexy I just could not resist him - plus I could do with a good scale and polish :-) He will get a shock when he sees what I look like now...it was rather mean of me to use a 20 year old picture:-)

http://dotv.com/p/cams/view.cgi?stream=Mark55&action=bio

there have been a number of very odd posts from Rosie in particular over the last few days making very plain he is reading this blog .. directly responding to comments I and others have made on here - e.g. that Rosie is used interchangeably by Gerry, Claris, Philomena, Aunt etc.

Seem to acknowledge the game is up!

Viv x

felicity said...

oops it is 20.42 - still reading back to posts I missed whilst out.

Viv x

dylan said...

Hiya 2345 - thank you. At least i don't feel like the only IT thickie in the world although I suspect you are being modest;)

Cheers Viv, it is good to be back! allbeit, fleetingly.

Dr Val's response is very heartwarming indeed. It's kind and thoughtful and the tone is sincere. I detect a hint of regret and one gets the feeling that Amaral really does feel such remorse for what happened to poor Maddie.

Now that I've made it here, it would seem ironic if it were put back to deregister lololol! BUT, I agree that Supertroll, based on last post is behaving. It was unbiased, helpfull and in no way spiteful. I think I know who you mean who won't post (just by my feeble powers of deduction!) and i completely agree we need that person back. So, it's fine by me at least.

Love to you all,

It's been interesting reading even in my capacity as bystander with the failings of my technological skills!

Dylan x 20.46

felicity said...

Dolores

Thanks for full Correio de manha article confirming it IS BRITISH GOVERNMENT HOLDING up the process. See my post above please fax and email to let them know what we think about that!

2345

Very interesting thanks:

I've learned today that Esther McVey is directly linked to a media company tied to 'sock puppet' 'monkeying' activity. Likely she's busy monitoring forums.

------

~Supertroll seems to have changed his tactics from just writing offensive rubbish on here - which I promptly delete. That is fine. If he makes sensible posts without being abusive they can stay.

They might be in control on the D~E getting all the decent posters banned and writing their aggressive rubbish/boring tickle tackle to the few that are left but they are never going to be in control here:-)

Viv x

felicity said...

Hiya again Dillie

Thanks for your vote of confidence on possibly de-registering the site again. You are by no means the only one who has experienced difficulty. I just dont know what it involved because I did not need to go through it.

Luv Viv x

felicity said...

20.56

supertroll said...

I'll always say what I think, like it or not.
I must say you are all being charming today, Hmmmm.

dolores said...

Viv
I have been out most of the day and evening also , about to catch up on some posts, so nice to see familiar people.
I don't mind if you feel you want to de-register.

xx 21.25

hope4truth said...

Evening

Well that was easier than I thought it would be kept putting it off and it was simple...

I have been on the DX trying to work out who is posting for who or who has more than one log in. One posters personality changes with the wind if they are being paid to post their supervisor should sack the lot of them they are hopeless...

eurekamano said...

Hi Viv, my vote is if deregistration is more open then ok by me as you can always delete impertinent nonsense from the Mcnasties, or impose registration again. I emailed Sky News re their nonsensical interpretation about the 'conclusion' of the case and to my surprise they published my very critical comment. So good for them, perhaps they're not all naively in Clara's pocket. However, I noticed some apparently very staged comments from Scottish pros, and one or two duplicated.
All for emailing government re delays. eureka

hope4truth said...

sorry it is 21.49

dr_val said...

Just posted on DE

"Formal letters requesting the interviews have now been received by the Home Office and will be handed to Leicestershire Police next week. "

http://dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/35115/Police-last-chance-to-find-Madeleine

22.27

supertroll said...

Sorry, its 02:31 pm

dr_val said...

Another snippet from same article:

"Portuguese detectives are also expected to travel to Leicestershire to oversee interviews of three of the McCanns’ holiday friends – Russell O’Brien, Jane Tanner and David Payne."

irina said...

Hello Dr-Val,
An interesting article.
I wonder where they got info from.
Leaked from Home Office?

P.S. Found this on Oxy Moran:
"According to British newspaper, the Daily Mirage, the parents were, “forced” to consider money-making schemes after they ran out of other people’s money. Aunty Phil was eating and not available for comment." -think it's funny.

P.P.S. It seems that McVey employs her monkeys overseas.

dolores said...

Dr Val
That is surprising Iwould have thought they would all be interviewed.Why David Payne more than Oldfield I wonder.

merc said...

Dolores, perhaps Oldfield has already given his statement in Portugal, as reported by docmac.

irina said...

Hi all.
I still wonder where they have got the information. It seems credible.
Yes the choice of witnesses is interesting.
May be the others confessed?
Or these did confess?
Well, PJ know so much more then us.

I hope McCanns are watched and bugged, so they would not be able to interfere before questioning.

irina said...

Hi all.
I still wonder where they have got the information. It seems credible.
Yes the choice of witnesses is interesting.
May be the others confessed?
Or these did confess?
Well, PJ know so much more then us.

I hope McCanns are watched and bugged, so they would not be able to interfere before questioning.

supertroll said...

Not Fair!!!

felicity said...
Supertroll McCann

Repetitive posts of yours will continue to be removed. You may like the sound of your own voice but I do not.

You are not turning this into a fax of the Daily Express!

Viv x

Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:07:00 PM PST

Yet Irene has posted two succesive identical posts.
Talk about double standards
:(

03:42

dylan said...

Supertroll,

I think it is a case of "hit the post button twice" with Irina. Happens to the best of us! Sometimes it looks as if your first post didn't posted and so you try again! QED!

I believe our viv would have to manually remove offensive posts as as advanced as computers are these days, they can't yet judge whether or not a narrative is offensive ;) - As brilliant and multi-tasking as viv is, I don't think she can be there to babysit her flock 24/7!

So, no offence taken i hope :)

Glad to see you are still posting sane comments. I think i can speak for us all in saying that we don't mind contrary opinions that contribute to rational debate, but we do mind insulting posts. Keep up with the new, shiny, troll. It's good to have something to ponder....

Dr Val, good news that the letters are finally here.

I hope the ball will start rolling again soon.

Dyl x

dr_val said...

Dolores
According to (the press) David Payne was the last to see Madeleine alive (he called in after the tennis lesson)

dolores said...

jocmac
Does it make you feel espcially clever to insult people,is this what you behave like when you are face to face with them also.
You sound like a very bitter person.There really is no need for it here,this is not DE.

dolores said...

dr val
I was thinking Oldfield as he said he never saw Madeleine in one statement, and yet in another he said he saw her.Unless he is the one who has recently told the truth.
xx

felicity said...

Jomac - do not make offensive posts about other posters.

Supertroll you are not permitted to copy and paste anything at all from The Sun or The Mirror. Others may do so if it is part of critical analysis..

Hope you will both understand where your posts went and why.

felicity said...

To all the rest of you hiya! - how odd Rosiepops posted the exact same piece of rubbish from The Sun about Goncalo Amaral on the Daily Expres tonight. You know how much I like you "Rosiepops" I know you need to come here but you there are special rules applicable to you. Unfair - ask me if Im bothered!

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv
I found it quite presumtious that Mc's took it upon themselves to put Mari Luz's portrait on a poster with Madeleine without asking the parents permission first.What if it interfered with polce advice to the parents?


I am going off to bed now, and wish you goodnight.
xx

dolores said...

VIV
Ithought Iwould pass this article on from Joanna Morais,before I go.

Madeleine: PJ returned to the Ocean Club


24 Horas

Inspectors carried out five new interrogations

The investigations into the case of the disappearance of Madeleine are not stalled. And they can be extended for another three months.

The Polícia Judicíaria returned, last week, to the Ocean Club, the resort from where Madeleine McCann disappeared on May 3, 2007. 24Horas was able to establish that the PJ's investigators went to hear five witnesses that had already given their depositions within the investigation.

According to senior officials in the PJ, these are normal investigative procedures. "Diligences have been carried out every day. A team of twenty investigators remains on the case, led by superior coordinator Paulo Rebelo. Several questionings have been repeated and the statements are being duly analysed to try to find some lead that might open a new investigation line", a judicial official that is connected to the investigations guaranteed to 24Horas yesterday.

Michaela's boyfriend questioned again

24Horas was able to establish that one of the persons that were questioned again was the boyfriend of Robert Murat's ex-partner, Michaela Walkzuch, a Portuguese man who used to clean the Ocean Club's pools, called Luis Antonio.

Apart from that, the PJ still waits for the McCanns and the friends with whom they had dinner on the evening of the disappearance to be subject to new interrogations, in fulfilment of the rogatory letter that was sent by the Portuguese authorities. The same judicial source also stressed that a new request to the instruction judge at the Portimão Court, Pedro Frias, who holds the process, is being pondered, to extend the investigation deadline for an additional 90 days, if there is not a brief response to the aforementioned letter.

They can rest assured

The McCanns can rest assured concerning the investigations into the disappearance of their daughter, because they will not be closed until it is discovered what really happened to the child, an investigator of the case promised to 24Horas. "An investigation of this type is always open and all the clues that keep appearing are duly investigated", he guaranteed.

lorraine said...

hi everyone,yesterday on daily express mum 21 made a kind of racist comment to a new portuguese poster called poloratriste about how she should find a foreign forum if her english wasnt up to scratch (something along those lines) anyway i have been banned for it. I phoned the express to complain but nothing can get sorted until monday. I know i can sign back in with another id but dont see why i should. So if anyone is posting on express today please say a big thankyou(not) to mum21 from me loz22 thankyou
saturday 16th fefruary 09.52

2345 said...

Viv/Felicity,

Spanish commentators will undoubtedly confirm whether or not poster reports of Madeleine & Mari Luz are TRUE or whether it's yet more misleading PR from camp McCann.

True or false Metado 3 are being paid to undermine a criminal investigation on behalf of the prime suspects; their name is linked to Mari's highly suspicious 'disappearance'. I'm 99.99% certain this was arranged at an agreed price. 10.00 a.m.

2345 said...

lorraine,

Sorry to read you were deliberately targetted and 'silenced'. It's quite untrue that your complaint cannot be dealt with until Monday. Web Team are on duty at weekends, so you're being 'fobbed off'.

All the well informed highly respected DE commentators post here and on 3 A's site. I, too, was banned without justification at the end of January. Take it as a great compliment - you're clearly seen as a threat. Those planted by the McCanns are, frankly, vile - this Forum is brilliant - enjoy!!
10.10 p.m.

P.S. DE are such hypocrites. Behind their Red Crusader emblem lies ongoing malpractice in silencing public opinion. They're losing patrons in droves as a result.

hope4truth said...

Lozz

Why did you get banned? I read her comment to Claudia it was wrong....

I think they are worried about the letters being her which is why RP kept on about Murat moving in with his GF and her husband (as I said at least she had 3 adults there for her and was not left alone)...

Mum is a nasty piece of work she smugly printed the other day that all the ladys in her salon either have or would do the same as the McCanns and then yesterday asked where she ever defended child neglect I think she is Old Hippy she went off on one the other night demanding to know where someone was from OH did the same to Rat a while ago...

I dont get any of them If G&K are inocent it will be proved it wont help Madeleine and if they had not neglected her she would not be missing (if she was taken)...

Hope you keep posting on here the DX is nasty at times.

I know both sides have theorys but how do you face your self each day if you are paid to write rubbish defending child neglect??

Bye for now x

10.17

lorraine said...

2345
yes i have noticed a lot of the express posters leaving in droves mind you I'm not suprised. If your not in their little club your comments just get passed by as not valid then a member of the "club" repeats what youve just posted and theres a massive debate on it. So maybe the express has done me a favour.

hope4truth said...

lorraine

Glad you will post here may speak to you later off out to enjoy the sun (although it is freezing)...

x

dolores said...

Hi 2345
Regarding the posters of Madeleine and Mari Luz,I thought this would enlighten the matter as to the spin in our press.

Lorraine'
Most of us who get banned from DE,are always surprised as to why,for saying next to nothing in comparrison to the ones who defend child neglecters,who say what ever they like, they insult ,tell lies, provoke arguments and distract attention from the Mc's.
Here we are voices for Madeleine and have respect for other posters opinions without the insults.Which we do not accept.
Nice to see you here.
xx

QUOTE from Li on 24 Horas
The media campaign of the McCanns did not reach the ground yet. At Huelva nobody saw nothing yet

Text Luís Maneta

The McCanns promised to "flow" the south of Spain with 18 thousand posters with the images of the three missing children ' Madeleine, Mari Luz and Yeremi - but the truth is that in Huelva, yesterday, there was no sign of the posters.

"I did not see any poster and we were not informed of anything. There is nothing" said to 24 Horas Luís Molina, spokesman of the Cortés family and uncle of Mari Luz, missing since the 13th of January.
The journalists of a city newspaper also searched for the posters made by the McCanns. "We were aware of the initiative through a news agency and we wanted to photograph them but we could not find any", said Raquel Rendón journalist of the Spanish newspaper "Huelva Información".
24 Horas questioned the spokesman of the McCanns about the distribution of the posters in Spain but could not get any reply till now. Clarence Mitchell said yesterday to our newspaper that the posters - in which appear the sentence "No nos olvideis" (Don't forget us) on the top of the photo of the missing children - were distributed in several public places, like schools, railway stations and shopping malls. In Huelva, the city where lives the family of Mari Luz Cortés and where thousands of people have shown through public demonstrations the support to the child and her family nobody saw them. "An action like this should have been agreed with us but nobody told us anything" said Luís Molina. Although he recognises that every initiative aimed to divulge the case "might be important" the spokesman of the Cortés says that he can't even speak about the content of the posters for a simple reason: "I did not see any".
http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/total.p ... 68

eurekamano said...

Hi Viv,more porkies from Clara allegedly, and extraordinary arrogance from the McCanns. The '24Horos' news reported that the spokesman of McCann assured that the parents of Mari Luz, the Cortés, were party to the idea of the posters launch. (It's claimed 18,000 posters are about to be distributed with both children pictured).
However, a paternal uncle of
Mari Luz contacted by '24 hours'
assures that neither he nor other
persons related to the family of the girl in De Huelva were contacted. "I knew of nothing. I, for example, just learned today [yesterday] of posters because an English journalist showed us", said Diego Cortés.
eureka 12.15

supertroll said...

Jocmac,
I didn't get the pleasure of reading your posts but you can always post in my blog if you want.
Good luck.

2345 said...

Dolores,

Thanks for the article - totally predictable. Gerry loves money far too much to waste it on posters.

Is Clarence so far removed from reality that he believes the public swallow the tripe he dishes out on a daily basis ?

There's a lovely Chinese proverb on 3 A's - "Those who play the game cannot see .... " How true this is. "Those who lie cannot remember ..... " also springs to mind with the McScams. 1.00 p.m.

felicity said...

Lorraine

I too have read some extremely racist remarks by Mum21 including another last night where she quipped 'did I really say that'. There was a sustained attack against Claudia and Goncalo but in the end the McNasties were completely outflanked by the intellect of Claudia and a few others rather than gang warfare and all toddled off:-)

What the DE have achieved now is a forum where quite often - the only people left are the little gang of nasties and their comments look like an internet chatroom for 9-10 year olds..

Dolores - whilst it is always interesting to know what 24 Horas are writing my Portuguese colleagues warned me some months back that paper has right wing backing from the US and is not to be trusted. Interesting the way they reported Michaela's boyfriend being re-interviewed - this is what the Pros want but I do not believe it is what has happened. I think we are being spun a line here...Likewise we seem to be being spun a line about all these so called posters the McCanns have been talking about since last September but never seem to actually appear! It does seem to me they are providing excuses for the dissipation of the fund. I cannot help but wonder if the support of the McCanns is the main objective ? It is not unreasonable to think the McCanns might be a bit strapped for cash. They have lost Kate's £45 p.a. income and they do seem to me to be a family who were fully committed on their income - £2000 p.m. mortgage payments! If the report that Gerry just had a new 4 x 4 is correct - how did they afford that?

I think he has always considered this to be his own personal pot (now we even have to use the Find Maddie fund to find Maddie!!)- and had to be told by the directors of the fund - well what will the public think about you paying your mortage from it and paying for solicitors to defend you against criminal allegations from it. So the maintenance of the McCanns lifestyle and wish to defend themselves at everyone else's expense has continued in a more ocvert way. Why would they agree a 6 months fixed term contract with Metodo 3 at such massive cost? Surely the intention was to find maddie wasnt it?? But this arrangement pre- supposes she will not in fact be found. Just like Gerry's statement in June 2007 about his plans for a 12 months anniversary event. His actions make very plain to me at least he knew for a fact Maddie nver was going to be found.


Viv x

felicity said...

By the way Lorraine - welcome to the forum - a better place where you will not be mobbed by school room bullies with no developed knowledge and understanding about anti-discriminatory law or the moral reasons why such laws have to exist.

Supertroll - is your blog a place where only one person is allowed to speak? This is a place where everyone gets their voice, provided they are polite to others, not racially abusive etc.

Viv 13.14

2345 said...

As a twin, I've been asking myself a question for sometime - were the twins eye witnesses to fatal events in the apartment?

My instincts keep telling me they were and one of the reasons they were heavily sedated and comotoze when PJ arrived.

It's easy to overlook the minds and 'visual' memories of small children. My sister and me both have vivid memories of a traumatic incident we both encountered at roughly the same age as the twins. IF Madeleine's siblings did witness a traumatic scene/fatal accident, the memories will remain locked within them.

IF they were heavily sedated as a first aid calming measure, then this was because they were eye witnesses to a fatality caused by one or other of their parents.

In addition to the traumatic loss of their elder sister, I do wonder about the long term effects of anything they unwittingly witnessed on that fateful day. 1.35 p.m.

2345 said...

Viv/Lorraine,

I heartily agree with your last post. I'm not convinced Gerry would enter into a 6 month contract with anyone, least of all M 3. Six months x £50,000 is the sum Gerry would like us to believe is accounted for by payments to them. Why? Most likely this vast sum has been syphoned off for his benefit.

The mention of a 6 month contract contradicts the McCanns' plea of abduction. IF Madeleine had been taken, she could have been found within the first week of M 3's employ couldn't she? Gerry loves money far too much to have entered into a binding extortionately expensive agreement. M 3's forte is fraud; they are employed for this reason and purpose alone. I doubt it's for M 3's benefit that they've moved next to a Swiss Bank. 1.50 p.m.

LittleGreyCell said...

1.55

Afternoon Viv,

Sad to read that 'one of our favourite posters' is no longer posting here, although I do completely understand their reasons.

All this IT malarkly is completely over my head - I'm not even sure if my computer runs on electricity or gas - but luckily, I have a husband and son to takeover at times of major stress (which can occur at any time after the ON switch has been activated) and ensure I don't push the ejector seat button.

Why is the language these computers and services use based on an assumption that we are all Nobel Prize-winning technophiles? And, what's going on when, due to a rare astrological nodal alignment with Pluto (if not Goofy), you DO manage to follow the instructions, a message appears telling you nobody's ever heard of you, that technically, you don't exist and why don't you go away and have a cup of tea, dear, and not worry your pretty little head about it?

Anyway, sorry, a long-winded way of saying that should you wish to go down the route of de-capitating the warp factor diodes in their tertiary phase output, I'm right behind you (actually, quite a long way behind you, but behind you, nevertheless).

X Mickey Mouse

LittleGreyCell said...

2.05pm

Hi 2345,

Or the twins could have been sedated so that they wouldn't be a distraction during the forthcoming dramatic evening's events?...

Isn't it funny that the internationally famous top investigative company Metodo3 are now next door to a Swiss bank? You can imagine scenes of Clouseau proportions in which they spend 6 years tunning underground, only to emerge triumphantly in the poodle parlour on the other side of them. (Well, I can).

Do you reckon they follow a trail of crumbs back to the office each day? Because, let's face it, they're not that great at locating things, are they?

X The Pink Penguin

LittleGreyCell said...

Well, Metodo3 probably WOULD be 'tunning' when they should be 'tunneling'.

Idiots.

;)

lizzy said...

Hi Dolores,
I think it might be ayne rather than Oldfield as I heard that the appartment where the scent of death was found was believed or should I say alleged to have been his. Evidently his was directly above the Mccanns and it was O'Briens which was next door.It is highly possible that may have been a place which was used for the first few days, as the Police allegedly know where this was.Might not be right but ties in with that theory. Lizzy 14.05

lizzy said...

Dolores,
I meant Payne typing getting worse sorry. Lizzy

irina said...

Hello everyone,
No spin today. Something is going wrong for CM & co.
Or may be they are on the meeting with friends?

The only way for them now is to prevent questioning to take place for some legal reasons. And that is what they are consulting their lawyers about.
But to do that they will have to come clean (or rather dirty) before the lawyers. Will they?

felicity said...

Hiya 2345 - You reflect my own long- term concerns as to why the twins may have been heavily sedated - it is a question I have always asked did they actually witness something terrible happen to Maddie? I suppose much depends on the timing. If it was late at night on the 2nd May, maybe not. However, Kate was reported to be "loud and out of control". This kind of domestic violence scene does wake children, does terrify them and does leave permanent emotional scars. When questioning men who abuse their partner, if they are past the denial stage, they will often admit they witnessed their own father behave in this way. This is not to say this is always the affect - emotional and pscyhiatric harm can exhibit in many different ways in adulthood and seems to generally have a very different effect on women. This may sound sexist but as we know most domestic violence abusers are men, indeed abut 80-90 of all offenders are men.

If Maddie died around bathtime - then the likelihood of them actually witnessing it become much stronger and the effect likely to be far more devastating still. The impact of them losing their sibling and being encouraged to play games like hunt the Maddie monster also cannot be underestimated - absolutely devastating IMO and as we know, so frequently, our Social Services so frequently do not step in and save children, even when they know full well they are at risk of serious harm. It is due to my concern about these two little ones - this site is also entitled justice for the twins. They have the right to a normal childhood, and the chance to receive support and treatment for the terrible trauma that they have, on any reckoning, most definitely suffered.

It is amazing what you can remember isnt it? I had a vision of being held by my nan and sat on some sort of high box watching aeroplanes. My mom confirmed I was about 15 months old at the time!

LGC - I found your remarks about technology highly amusing and terribly relevant to my own experience. If Luke cant fix it, then I call in the real technology geek - my eldest son! I am quite amazed I did this webpage all by myself and even learned how to insert pictures - to my great delight :-)

Check out the pics of Kate and her fantasy raptor on new thread!

Luv Viv x

dolores said...

lizzie
I thought the scent was picked up in O'B's apartment in a wardrobe?
Gosh! one reads so much,you get confused sometime.
I think I might consider sueing them fo stress.lol
I did not realise 24 Horas was a questionable paper either, for honest news.
xx D

dolores said...

Hi Viv.
This is an early photgraph of K.The bruise above her eye is very prominent.I don't see that it as a black eye,more like head butting,but I am probably of course again.
XX

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6651307.stm

LittleGreyCell said...

2.40

Dear Viv,

I am FULL of admiration for you setting up this site! What a fantastic feat!!

I was once, living alone, showing a girlfriend everything I knew about the internet (it was a very short explanation). I left her alone to explore whilst I took a short trip to the loo. When I returned, she'd managed somehow to disconnect me from my service provider, ticking all the ARE YOU SURE YOU REALLY WANT TO DO THIS boxes every time they came up! We spent a hilarious couple of hours on the phone to a bemused teccie trying to get me reconnected again. But how did she do that? I've still no idea.

Viv, if the twins did see something traumatic, wouldn't K & G be terrified that they might mention what they saw one day?

X LGC

felicity said...

Hiya Dolores

I had another look at the picture. It is a split heavily doused with thick makeup. This could easily be from a punch - when the area just above the eye receives such a blow there is so little flesh a split like this typically appears - usually bleeding intensely, immediately dripping down on to the floor whilst the victim is shocked and dazed - I wonder if they found Kate's blood also? Head butt usually produces more severe injury - black eyes/fractured nose.

I know so much about assaults because of my former work!

Viv x

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