15 Apr 2008

Jane Tanner report in The Sun Online

Hi all

A couple of days ago I checked the news in The Sun online. I was searching for the breaking news and found that it was being reported that Jane Tanner had retracted her statement about seeing a man walking past. Obviously, this was in print so I thought their is probably a high level of credibility in the source here.

Imagine my suprise when I read a few more paragraphs and found it being reported that she had apparently told police when they first asked not long after Madeleine went missing that the person she saw looked ' like the child's father.' Now that would be Gerry wouldn't it ?

This report was in The Sun in its breaking news online version. However, it has not been archived and it is now not to be found anywhere on the system now. If you remember my previous life in another forum you will remember me quoting John Pilger from his book 'Hidden Agendas.' In it he says often that the real stories come out but they only do so once because someone then puts the pressure on and it 'miracously' disappears. he mentions these are the stories to look out for.

Thanks to my half term holiday I had managed to see this Jane Tanner breaking news story and it left a huge immediate impression. I believe I saw somewhere months ago an article on how Jane Tanner did not go looking that night with her husband for young Madeleine. Perhaps if this alleged report in The Sun is true about Jane Tanner then she dropped Gerry in it right from the start and has been backtracking since.

It does seem strange the way it was worded and how it has quickly disappeared. Did anyone else see it? Who else could 'like the child's father' be ? Plus, carrying the child in open arms is not one an abductor would do naturally but perhaps is more akin to one a father or mother might well carry a little 'un when their child is injured.

194 comments:

J J said...

I hope I have posted this ok.
This site also has the bit about Jane Tanner thinking the man she saw was the child's father.

http://oxymoran.blogspot.com/2008/04/glaring-inconsistencies-in-jane-tanners.html

Ecolab said...

You carry your child by holding it "solid" because you do`nt want to drop the child.

The only thing you carry with your arms open, is when you carry a sacrifice! (or a injured child - very sad indeed)

leigh3 said...

Viv,
I'm as proud of you tonight as if you were my own child.

Yes. John Pilger's 'Hidden Agendas' told the public something about the reality of the news business, and its manipulators.

Yes. Jane Tanner is on record for all her changing versions of events.

Jane Tanner is a bare faced liar. I said that on the DE, and am happy to repeat it.

Libel law gives 3 defences: true in fact, 'fair comment', 'in the public interest'.

Jane Tanner is a bare faced liar. That statement is easily covered by all 3 defences under UK libel law.

I look forward to the day when those who lied over the body of Madeleine Beth McCann get their day/s in court.

Criminal court or libel court. Justice is coming for Madeleine, in my opinion.

leigh3 said...

Ecolab.

You always spotted the 'inconsistences' and the 'contradictions'. You have done it again in your latest comment, I think.

By the way, I saw what you wrote about getting your dream job. They are fortunate to have you, whoever they are, I think.
Best wishes,
leigh

leigh3 said...

JJ,
Nice to see you return. I know you were upset recently by some tit for tat comments.

See? It's safe now. We can receive your information without interference.
Best wishes,
leigh

dylan said...

Well said Leigh,

Lies have a nasty habit of biting a person in the arse, don't they?

I wonder if Tanner changed her story earlier than the disappearing news would have us think? Docmac seemed to imply that this was his big bit of news but that was months ago now.

Dyl xx

(loool, I typed "dul" instead of dyl! I think my inner self is trying to tell me something and perhaps i should go to bed and rest my "creativity" for the night!)

leigh3 said...

Hi Dylan.
Don't make me laugh too much at this time of night :-)

I can't comment on when JT changed her story. Can anyone? It's changed so much, like the weather.

The fact that it has changed materially is important, I think, although The Pink One tells us that the Tapas interviewees gave 'essentially' the same stories as previously; not quite the same as the exact stories, is it?

Tsk. I despise bare faced liars, but I'd rather be amused by your humour instead!
x
leigh

Doppelganger said...

JT's story

I think JT's story is substantially the same as before.

The only thing that has changed, apparently, is that JT saw 'bundleman' 'abducting' Madeleine before she actually disappeared.

Before Kate and Gerry claim to have left her tucked up 'safely' in bed.

Can't see what all the fuss is about myself ;-)

Calling it a day now, nite everyone

leigh3 said...

Doppelganger.
Time and fear of being unmasked as a liar can do a lot to change someone's perception of reality, as JT is discovering, it seems to me.

Don't know what all the fuss is about :-)

Cláudia said...

Exactly. Why all the fuss? ;-)
Sleep well, Doppel.

leigh3 said...

Claudia.
Up at 7a.m. Still here? Go to bed!

I don't know. The youth of today have endless energy.
Love from your surrogate Grandma Leigh.
xo

See you next time, chica. Tomorrow is another day. Go to bed!

Cláudia said...

I'm going, Grandma. I'm going! :-)
Boa noite!

dolores said...

Is it UK taxpayers who are going to foot the bill for K&G going to Washington and Brussels. As they were sponsored by Edward Mc Millan-Scott?

Email,If you want to ask him.

www.emcmillanscott.com/index.html

dolores said...

A PORTUGUESE police union boss has branded the McCanns’ spokesman a LIAR.

Carlos Anjos said of Clarence Mitchell: “He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth.”

The president of Portugal’s Police Federation accused the former BBC man of leaking police statements Kate and Gerry made within hours of Maddie disappearing last May.

These were aired on Spanish TV last week.

Anjos said the aim was to give the McCanns an excuse not to attend a reconstruction.

Mr Mitchell, 46, said: “It is categorically untrue that I leaked them. There was absolutely no benefit for us to do that.”

Nacho Abad, the Spanish journalist who obtained the statements, said: “Clarence Mitchell was not the source. The family did not leak it.”
-------
Of course there was benefit in this Pinky.K & G did not want to co-operate with a reconstruction,and had to find a way to get out of it, the same as they did with the lie detector test.
Why does Nacho Abad not come clean about who told him.
Was M3 involved,could they be angry at being reduced to £8,000 from £58,000 a month.They have been out of the picture for some time now.Or are they no longer employed by them.?

LittleGreyCell said...

I'm rather interested in WHY, from a logistical point of view, JT made the slip up of describing a Gerry-like figure in the first place...

...she sat at the table all night, she then got up and saw Gerry carrying Madeleine, which she then related to the police. This means she wasn't 'in' on The Plan from the off. Or wasn't told about the changes put into effect due to the Jeremy Wilkins effect.

Or did she just mess up when it came to her interview, not cottoning on to what the implication was.

When did she first realize it had been Gerry?

Surely, if you were asked to take part in some role play, you would have enough sense to make sure you concocted something that didn't implicate one of the other players?

This is what I can't understand. There's some big logistical problem with all this as far as I'm concerned.

nancy said...

Hi everyone -

Bath theory - Are you now Viv? I remember you on the DX forum?

I thought the latest thing from JT is that she didn't leave the table all night until Kate came running in saying 'they've taken Madeleine' or words to that effect! - the troube is that once someone starts to lie they have to continue doing so when their story starts to contradict other stories. Only Jane Tanner knows the exact truth and she won't be telling that if she can help it I'm sure! She also said on Panorama that 'I carried the child.....', remember that? I remember thinking at the time that this woman is lying - it was so obvious! At that time I had no personal view on what had happened either.

Stella said...

Morning everyone,

How can JT say she did not leave the table all night, on Panorama she sat there plain faced and said she did? Is someone out there releasing utter rubbish to confuse everyone?

ratonthebeam said...

Morning all, a flying visit - but some points to ponder......

1. How do we know there was even a "leak" at all? This Nacho Abad guy might just have been reading the 3A's and lifted his "infoprmation" from there (it's hardly a "new" news, after all....)and sold it to an unsuspecting (and uncaring) Telecino. Quick bucks for him, a "scoop" for the channel, all a fabrication, and we all just jump to the conclusion that someobody, somewhere, has "leaked" something. Even CM!

2. Barry Gibb is carrying a child - or something - that is covered with something nasty (blood? vomit? something else?) and he is holding it in that position so he does not get the icky stuff on himself.

3. JJ, nice to see you again.

4. I remember Baththeory, and always enjoyed his/her posts on the DX - would be good to have him/her sign up.

5. Gina and Ironside, if you are reading, come on down!!!

6. The wheels have come off Jane Tanner's waggon now - and she should be thinking about herself, and her own kids, from this point on. I don't think she is strong enough to keep this charade up much longer.

7. We don't know what charges or action - if any - are being prepared/taken against the rest of the tapas crew, who also left small children unattended - some of them A LOT smaller than Madeleine. This could be a useful bargaining tool from the point of view of the PJ.

LittleGreyCell said...

Rat,

Excellent point, no. 2...this could explain the odd carrying position.

Also, if it turns out to be the case, could also explain the unemotional kind of carrying; not close to the body, emotionally distanced from the child...

Brilliant.

Di said...

Good Morning everyone

I have just watched this video which was posted by Bossfan on 3As.

Kerry, the mother of missing Ben Needham, was interviewed last year after the disappearance of Madeleine and was certainly on the McCanns side. Watch this with interest and see the change.

It is the second video down.



http://benneedham.blogspot.com/

Cláudia said...

Good morning.
Very interesting points, Rat!

bath theory said...

Maybe Tanner said something to the police initially and didn't perhaps know her husband was part of the story at that stage. Due to that knowledge becoming apparent to her she has backtracked and changed and tried to retract etc

bath theory said...

The main point which was new to me was this comment that got reported and has since disappeared that she initially told police allegedly that the person seen looked like the child's father !!

Cláudia said...

I had never heard that either, Bath Theory.

Stella said...

Di

I saw Kerry's interview last year and to watch the video clip you have just supplied, what can I say, talk about distancing yourself. I would love to be a fly on the wall when Team McCann discuss that one....

Di said...

Stella

It is a pity people like Richard Madely cannot do the same, distance themselves that is. I cannot believe he has advised Kate & Gerry, in one of his articles, not to go back to Portugal as they are being set up and could be arrested.

Cláudia said...

Well, Di, if they are afraid of being arrested, that makes it crystal clear to me...

Stella said...

Di

I don't know what it is about Richard Madley, but he really irritates me. He should stick with the Ricahrd and Judy show and leave proper journalism to the experts. I guess because of his past "little problem" with an unpaid shopping trolley, he is on some kind of mercy mission for all. He has always come across to me as being a brown noser, and probably thinks that supporting Gordon Brown now will one day earn him some kind of a reward.

LittleGreyCell said...

Stella,

So Gordon Brown DOES have a supporter after all!

Di said...

Stella

I agree I don't think the police are high on Richard's guest list!!There is even a rumour that they both post on the other site.

Stella said...

LGC

Aparently so, a whole herd of brown nosers who once lined up are legging it now, Madley's a bit slow to catch on it seems.

Di said...

Funny, I read somewhere that Gerry and Richard were very similar in character, arrogant and egotistical

dolores said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Stella said...

Di

It would not surprise me in the least if both of them were posting on the DX site, their mentality came across many times.

atardi said...

Hi Everyone,

I'm very optimistic after reading this article.

------------------------

Madeleine McCann mystery will be solved, say police

By Bonnie Malkin and agencies
Last Updated: 11:15am BST 16/04/2008

Portuguese police have insisted they will solve the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
# In full: The Madeleine McCann investigation

Faro police chief Guilhermino Encarnacao, who is in charge of coordinating the investigation into the missing girl, has brushed off criticism of his force.
advertisement

He insisted the to insist the case was moving forward.

Madeleine McCann investigators have been locked in a war of words with the four-year-old's parents and their press spokesman Clarence Mitchell following the leaking of the couple's police statements.

Last week Mr Mitchell demanded an inquiry into how the McCanns' witness statements - given shortly after their daughter vanished - had been leaked and claimed it was another attempt to smear the couple.

In a rare public statement, the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) then criticised Mr Mitchell for his "baseless intervention".

Dr Encarnacao, speaking after a meeting between public prosecutors and police who travelled to Britain for fresh interviews with the McCanns' holiday friends, said: "Everything's going well.

"The inquiries carried out in the UK are progressing in the best way possible."

He said the police were not "vulnerable to pressure" from any party involved.

"The investigation will bring its results, whoever they hurt."

The pledge came as a clairvoyant claimed Madeleine McCann died in an accident.

Last week it emerged that Robert Murat, the British expatriate made a formal suspect over the disappearance of Madeleine, has begun one of the largest libel claims in the history of British media.

The 34-year-old, who lived close to the Portugal apartment where the missing girl was last seen, has launched libel proceedings against 11 newspapers and one television network.

ultraviolet said...

di, this film, made me cry.

atardi said...

Hi Dolores,

I see you have published the article too.

Can you delete my post at 12.20?

dolores said...

Atardi,
G/morning,not a problem,I deleted my own. :)

Di said...

Ultraviolet

The video is also a good reminder of just how these two cases have been handled so differently.

Cláudia said...

CM is going to be sued by PJ officers. News on Sic channel!

Cláudia said...

P.S: the leak did not come from the testemonies they gave to the PJ. The leak came from what they told M3. Also on Sic channel!

CM: put that in your pipe and smoke it!

LittleGreyCell said...

Claudia,

Oh joy! What are the details about the PJ suing CM?

Stella said...

Claudia

That is such good news, and let's hope it is the beginning of the end for the McCann's and Mitchell.

Stella said...

Could this be why Martin Brunt was deployed by Sky to PDL I wonder?

Di said...

Claudia

Great news!!

Cláudia said...

Well, yesterday the Union guy had already said that the Union would support the officers who wanted to bring that to justice. I guess the officers took the offer. CM is going to be sued. And And it was said that the 'leaked' statement is not even part of their testemony to the PJ. It is said to be part of what they told M3.
Great news before a loooong afternoon at work! (It was all said on SIC channel, in Portugal). Moita Flores said that Carlos Anjos (from the Union) confirmed it!

Cláudia said...

Stella, who knows?

Di said...

So, are we now to assume the leak came from Clarence and the McCanns and nothing to do with Metodo 3 or do you still think it could have been Metodo getting their revenge?

LittleGreyCell said...

Claudia,

What exactly are they suing for - defamation?

Cláudia said...

LGC, I have no legal background but the motive is that CM stated that the leak came from the PJ and the PJ denies it and apparently says that the leaked statement isn't even in the process under secrecy laws! So yes, maybe that's what you call it. Honestly, I don't care what they tcall it! ;-)

librarising said...

Well he has accused them of professional misconduct. A defence could be that they have leaked before so their reputation is not damaged by such accusations. Presumably they are confident that they haven't leaked before, which is interesting indeed. I wonder how many of the apparent anti-McCann leaks actually could be seen as having served PR purposes? Any ideas?

LittleGreyCell said...

Claudia,

What fantastic news! CM thinks he is invincible and can say and do what he likes...good for the PJ!

Joe said...

I just hate to be right. I posted the other day that Metodo3 and associates including Mr.Pink were probably responsible for the statement info. Looks like its true. Up to now the PJ have not responded to the little Pink Ones threats and falsehoods, but the gloves are clearly off now and it looks like the PJ is not going to take much more of the Pink buffoons
nonsense and interference in an official investigation and will slap him down. Mr.Pink clearly was not expecting the PJ to respond and it floored him and exposed his attempt at idiot spin. Off now will hopefully post later. Good to hear a positive note from the PJ chief.

librarising said...

...by the same token you could say that it's not possible to libel a PR man by calling him a liar, as we all know they do it all the time.

Remind me if ever I feel that I'd like the world to know the truth about me, not to hire a liar for the job.

LittleGreyCell said...

Librarising,

Do you mean CM's defence? Not sure I follow you...

Cláudia said...

Yes, guys, great news! :-)
It's a shame I have to go to work or I would certainly take the afternoon off! :-)

librarising said...

Hey if even the case gets to court you could do a brisk trade outside selling placards reading 'THE GLOVES ARE OFF'.

LittleGreyCell said...

Librarising,

Would the placards be pink?

Cláudia said...

Librarising, lololol
Well, he asked for it, didn't he? I just hope he doesn't wear pink in court!

LittleGreyCell said...

Claudia,

Yes, a pink shirt would clash with his red face...

librarising said...

LGC, yes, Clarence's defence might be that they were so well known for leaking that to call them leakers didn't defame them. Taking another step - if they felt they had leaked before then they wouldn't perhaps be some confident in threatening to sue. One step more... perhaps all that DNA leakage (if you see what I mean) wasn't from the PJ at all, and serves some other purpose than to lay guilt and/or pressure on the McCanns.

ultraviolet said...

latest news from jersey too.

LittleGreyCell said...

Librarising,

I don't think that would be a defence, the fact that they were already accused of leaking in the past. It's still defamatory in this instance.

I'm sure Team McClarrie didn't expect anyone to sue them - least of all the PJ!

librarising said...

I mean for instance (speaking hypothetically now) - if you knew that the police were going to find DNA evidence of your guilt, it might be worth leaking news of such evidence to the press. You might muddy the waters that way. You might even be able to make a fair trial at a later date impossible.

Mm. I have always assumed that the PJ did leak evidence selectively in an attempt to counter the McCann media juggernaut and defend their investigation. But cui bono?

Di said...

I wonder if Carter Ruck will fight his case!! and who would pick up the bill?

dolores said...

Claudia & all,
What brilliant news,at last he gets his comeuppance,Isais in my 8.16 post it could be M3 behind it.
Wait till Viv hears this!!

XX D

Cláudia said...

Dolores, my mouth is starting to hurt. Too much smiling! lolol

Di said...

Librarising

There is an article on 3As saying Clarrie has done it before. I have not pasted the article as it is rather long but worth a read.




http://the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9697

librarising said...

- not much of a case to answer really is there? As LGC says, you can't argue that in this instance the whole world would be expecting the police to behave unprofessionally, and they demonstrably didn't, so he's bang to rights guv.

librarising said...

Thanks Di. Why am I not surprised? What a dirty business PR 'opinion-shaping' is. The professions will one day soon be pariahs, I hope.

dolores said...

Claudia,
I am to.:)

UP YOURS PINKY

XX D

librarising said...

Carter-Ruck may have a very long disinfected bargepole but I still don't think they'd touch Clarence with it.

Cláudia said...

Dolores, lolol

Off to work, now.

Have a great afternoon, all of you! :-)
xxxx

J J said...

Hello Folks

Thanks for the welcome.
It's been a pleasure to read all the comments today.

Keep up the good work.

librarising said...

Maybe Clarence will find a lawyer with very thick gloves to handle his case.

nancy said...

Bath Theory - thanks for a good report - sorry about getting you mixed up with our Viv!! Yes, it's amazing how stuff seems to disappear from the public eye, especially if it's something that they want shoved under the carpet!!

I was coming on here to report about the Director of the PJ's saying that everything is running well and that the interrogatories carried out in England were very satisfactory, because I had just read it on McCannfiles. However, it seems to have preceded me, and I've come back to a very interesting forum which seems to have been in the doldrums for a little while.

I hope the PJ's make mincemeat out of CM because he is far too big for his boots and a very irritating and pompous ass, whether he wears a pink shirt or a blue one! I have the feeling the McCanns are sick of the sight of him too!

If the PJ's go ahead with suing CM for presumably defamation, will that take place in Portugal or will they have to come to the UK for this?

Bring it on PJ's!!

LittleGreyCell said...

I'm not so sure Clarrie's finished yet - after all, who is Silvio Berlusconi going to pass on his Prime Ministership of Italy to when he finally bites the dust?

He needs somebody in his own image - passionate about money, obsessive about controlling the media, with a penchant for plastic surgery (well, we can only hope!), and who better than Clarilino Mitchellini?

librarising said...

Sounds curiously appropriate LGC - Clarilino Mitchellini, the Glovefather.

LittleGreyCell said...

Librarising,

:)

Actually, I'm pretty sure he thinks he is the SON of God, not the father...

Di said...

Off for a while

Happy posting..

LittleGreyCell said...

Bye Di,

See you later.

librarising said...

Well he's inspired my avatar.

LittleGreyCell said...

Librarising,

Knockout!

:)

ratonthebeam said...

Di! WOO HOO!!!!!

Wizard said...

Hi All,
Clarence Mitchell knew his career as a journalist was over a number of years ago. He was what is called a general journalist which has now gone out of fashion. Journalists specialise, whether it crime, industry, politics, fashion etc. This was the reason he moved to his government job in the first place.

I’ve always thought he took the secondment with the McCann because it opened a new career pathway into public relations, spin call it what you like. It surely would have appeared to him as opportunity to showcase his abilities to future employers. It was an opportunity to step once more in front of the cameras and update the press on a regular basis.

I’ve just been reading the back posts and its being said the pj are going to sue CM. Well, well, well that’s an end to his career prospects. It will be interesting to see whether the book, he is no doubt writing, and the future interviews he may give will be enough financial incentive to keep him onboard Team McCann - otherwise we could we see him jumping overboard and leaving the sinking ship.

atardi said...

I was away for a shower and some phone calls.

Claudia's news is really fantastic.

Does anyone know if CM reacted on this news?

Ana said...

Hello Everyone,

Just pass by to tell you all that Clarence, the PINK ONE, will be sued by the Portuguese Police, but it seems that the great Cláudia has already told you the great new! LOLOLOL
I am off now, see you all Later !

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Wizard,

Good to see you - have managed to miss you the past few days. Do you still want some info on the PFI stuff - was that your question?? (Middle Aged Woman Alert here).

Thought Clarrie was STILL specialising in crime... :)

Personally, I don't think he has any compunction about dropping the McCanns in it to leave for a better position...but don't you think there are some undesirable types who would be happy to employ him because he's so fearless?

Wasn't he supposed to be getting a job with one of the McCann family - the one who's supposedly paying him now? - after the Madeleine case is done and dusted?

Wizard said...

Hi LGC,
I don’t understand your first paragraph so I think you must be thinking of someone else.

A couple of weeks ago I read Gordon Burn’s book “Born Yesterday the news as a novel”. Burn’s knows CM and during a conversation about his career CM said that as a general journalist he was almost unemployable because specialists were the norm nowadays. This was the reason CM gave to Burn’s for leaving journalism and taking the government position.

CM was never a crime reporter, although he did report of crime as well as many other things.

I still think he may jump ship because if taking the job with the McCanns was to showcase his wares things are beginning to turn so that his talents are being highlighted in a negative as opposed to positive light.

LittleGreyCell said...

Wizard,

Sorry about the mistaken identity - I'd better work on my memory or the next thing you know I'll be forgetting to look after my child...

I know he didn't specialise in crime, although this hasn't necessarily stopped CM from consorting with criminals, has it? ;)

I wonder how much longer he'll want to be associated with the McCanns now his own reputation is coming in for some serious damage?

And Metodo 3 seem to have a talent for getting embroiled in very dodgy investigations, too...

Stella said...

Let's just wait and see who and when the British tabloids report on CM beind sued. I have a feeling it will be lost in the deepest depths of all the editors pending trays somehow.

viv said...

Hiya all

Late last night I found google was not working and could not get on.

I have had a number of bizarre emails from 2345 where she is adamant I am a clone, not the real Viv and this site has been taken over by Clarence Mitchell!!! She has also written on here accusing Claudia of being a clone also.

I am therefore deleting her account and think she had better stick to bizarre paranoid conspiracy theories on 3 As. Clarence is not quite as powerful as she thinks!

There are emails waiting for me to answer for further new posters who want to join, so expect to see some more new faces:-)

Viv, definitely the real one!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

dylan said...

Viv, can you be sure that the 2345 in question was not a clone herself? Just finding this whole internet cloning business a bit scary!

"Up yours Pinky" - seems pinky has been a little "blue" recently!!
hahahaha - I wish the PJ much luck in an excellent cause!

Dul dyl xx


d

dolores said...

Viv,
There was a strange post by 2345 on yesterdays 3 A's which I pasted on yesterdays thread.,and asked her to confirm if it was her.There was no response.Iemailed you about it.

XXD

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv (hope you're the read Real Viv and not a cloned Real Viv - which would be a bit unreal Real Viv...),

If this site has been taken over by Clarence Mitchell, will we have to wear pink in order to post?

And if we're to be the Mitchell Brothers and Sisters, perhaps we'd better shave our heads like Phil and Grant...or dress like Barbara Windsor...or write in a cockney dialect:-

PEGGY: "'Ere, Clarrie, stop muckin' abaaht with those doctors; they're a bad influence on you".

BIANCA: "CLARRIEEEEEEEEEE!!!! Wot you done with my pink shirts?"

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Dillie,

How were your exams?

X

Di said...

Sorry, I am unable to paste this for some reason but I am able to put the link. Oh dear Kate & Gerry have you read this!!!!




http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=132384&command=displayContent&sourceNode=232710&home=yes&more_nodeId1=132393&contentPK=20408823

viv said...

Hiya Dyl

I am sure it it is the same one because the name on the emails is the same name/email address. Judging by the content of some of the emails I would say she bats for the other side!

I have sometimes questioned her on here, which side are you on and found some of her posts quite bizarre.

I have sent links for a couple of people to join that I dont know, please email me if there are any inappropriate posts or Claudia, LGC, Dolores can of course delete them.

LGC

No one is allowed to post unless they are wearing Pink, Clarence says so:-)

Viv xxxx

Di said...

Not even their local paper is sticking up for them anymore.

viv said...

Hiya

Dolores darling - thanks I did see the post and your email and that was very much instrumental in my decision to get rid of her.

Beware over the top "antis"!!!


Viv x

Gina said...

Testing, if you can read this I've actually managed to do something right on my computer for a change

viv said...

Hiya Di


Thanks very much for finding this and I have managed to paste it for you below. As you say it is very bad when even their own local Leics papers does not support them.

Clarence is being very defensive and aggressive and how now made it a war of words between him and the Portuguese Police, helpful to the McCanns? I really dont think so. Backing down and being polite can work wonders sometimes, not that he would know about that!

Viv x



SPOKESMAN ACCUSED IN MADDY ROW

10:30 - 16 April 2008



A Portuguese police chief has attacked the spokesman for Madeleine McCann's parents after he claimed that his detectives had leaked witness statements.

Yesterday, Portuguese police union chief Carlos Anjos told newspaper Jornal de Noticias that spokesman Clarence Mitchell "wants to discredit the Policia Judiciaria and invent excuses so the McCanns do not come to Portugal to participate in the reconstruction of the night she disappeared".

Mr Anjos told the paper his union was offering advice to officers who felt they had been identified by Mr Mitchell's claims and wanted to take legal action.



But Mr Mitchell stands by his claims and said the statements were leaked to overshadow the McCanns' visit to the European Parliament.

Coverage of the visit was dominated by statements which said that, on the morning of May 3, Madeleine asked her mum: "Mummy, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?"

Mr Mitchell said yesterday: "I'm not retracting a word of what I said.

"The Portuguese police have yet to explain how these statements came to be leaked.

"Their criticism of me doesn't explain how that confidential material came to be made public, and with very curious timing."

ratonthebeam said...

Esther McVey distancing herself from the Mcs too? Pretty hefty Wikipedia editing this week......

LittleGreyCell said...

Gina! You've landed safely!!!

viv said...

Hiya Gina

and great to have you back!

Viv x

dolores said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Di said...

I read this on 3As, can anyone tell me what Red crown site is?

Mind you whether true or not, I would go along with the remark that there are some very dangerous Pros out there!!!

Posted by Blondie2



A friend of my partner's is a detective. I couldn't get any news throughout the last year regarding the McCann case although he has always given me insider information on other cases under investigation. When I showed my partner the Red Crown site he was horrified and has ceased looking at me as if I had two heads.!!

He had a word with his friend who warned me to be very careful on the internet because they are monitoring the activities of pros on the internet some of whom are known to be dangerous characters. I am getting a list of names of those being watched and will pass it on to admin. I don't even know if he was referring to this forum. Will know tomorrow!!

Gina said...

Viv, I did it!!!!! you have no idea the mess I got into sorting out an email address. Bad news, or good news, depending on which way you look at it, is I have no time to post now as have things I must do, but will be back later xxx

nancy said...

Gina -

I just logged in and here you are!! Fantastic - welcombe aboard (again)!!

We look forward to your next input and what you've been up to since you returned!

LittleGreyCell said...

Well done, Rat!

Perhaps if Kate had had bigger breasts, Esther wouldn't have edited her out??

(I''m sure that's what Mrs Healy would say)

Di said...

Gina

Well done.....great to see you again.

LittleGreyCell said...

Time for me to edit out myself for a while now ... see you all later.

X

dolores said...

Viv,
Can you delete my post,as I did not see you had already complied. I seem to have lost my deletes.

XX D

Di said...

Viv

Thanks for that...

Not sure why it would not let me paste..

Di said...

Bye LGC

viv said...

Bye LGC - did you have to go feed OPUS, I guess so!

Dolores

I will check why you lost your bins and see if I can magic them back:-)

dylan said...

Hello little grey one,

Last week's two were much better than I thought they would be.

This one that I have tomorrow is a course test and open book but based on a whole year's worth of lectures. I have been so busy trying to sort out our group project which was due in today that all I've had time to do is buy some post-it notes and label all of my file pages. There are so many equations and so many notes that I have been in tears as i know I haven't enough time to revise.
The most annoying thing is that we were/are a group of 4 for the same GIS project but only me and one other have been pulling our weight. The other two are free-riders & so we had to delegate the presentation to them & they have even managed to mess that up! I asked them to print out the report as well as i had to go home to do this revision. They said fine but we have had a barrage of emails asking questions about it and they have had to ask for extended time. The group leader was up until 3 last night too, editing it all. Arrrggghhh!

I will fail tomorrow because of it but I have 69% for my first piece of coursework and i am hoping for a good mark for my second but we don't have the marks back yet. Each piece is worth 33, 33, 33 so I have 23 marks from the first. 50% is the pass mark.

We handed in course work weeks ago and the university can't be bothered to get our marks back to us so we can work out how much we need to do in the exams!

Fed up now and want this over so I can start on my dissertation!!

I bet you wish you hadn't asked now! Sorry, from a muchly stressed dyl xx

viv said...

Hiya Di

I just scrolled over the article itself and then right clicked to copy, could that be it, they wont let you copy the whole page on edit select?

Viv x

Di said...

Just out of interest, does anyone know what the reaction has been on the other site today?????

dylan said...

sorry folks for off topic post. I see I missed LGC after all that.

I will read and catch up after tomorrow.

Best wishes to all

xx

Di said...

Thanks Viv, I am still learning.

viv said...

Hiya Dillie

Your post about freeloaders and difficulties on presentations brought back memories, you always seem to get them and it is a real tough test of managing to put out good information even if your team are not pulling their weight. On a degree it does seem unfair they get the same marks for it though!

I remember doing a presentation with others on the Killshaws the couple that bought the twins over the internet, what a nightmare that was! Another so called professional couple I took a bit of a dislike to! Wonder why he is not a solicitor any more? Good old Law Society, wise decision..

viv said...

Hiya Di

I honestly cannot be bothered to read them, last time I looked I was in almost every post and not very pleasant either!

What has calling me Vile etc got to do with them achieving justice for the McCann family?

Not sure!

Viv x

Gina said...

Thanks all for your comments yesterday, it was like being suspended on the DX, wanted to tell you what was going on but could not.

Swedish Mum and I have been posting on the other blog today and it has been fine. I posted this on there earlier in the vain hope we could all get back to a debate instead of mud slinging at each other. Well I tried. Really must go now, but will try and catch up with all the posts later. Loads of things I want to ask you to clarify for me

Gina said...
I have just been reading Viv's blog but I cannot post on it as I am not a member. I have sent 2 emails to Viv but got no reply so if anybody from that blog is looking in please feel free to post this on her site too.

I & Swedish Mum have had some good conversations on here even on views we disagree with and we both have our likes and dislikes of certain posters on both sites (no names necessary). I personally feel that it is unfair for either blog to accuse everybody who posts on a certain blog to be the same as all the rest.

Many people have become passionate about their views, and although you may not share those views it does not mean that that person is stupid or whatever phrase you choose to use. I doubt the die hards will give up blogging until this case is finalised, but it is not too late to stop all the personal abuse and just debate.

I know what it feels like to be personally attacked so I sympathise with all that have had the same treatment, but to continously do it is really pathetic IMO, we all have different views and tastes,(some people even like Marmite ahhh).

Opinions on the McCanns and the PJ are now too deep routed to be changed but how about us just sticking to chitter chatter or the case in hand without attacking each other personally. I tried this before on the DE and it did no good, so I used to mess up the blog with cleaning tips till things calmed down. It would be nice to be able to debate again both points of view. I am longing for the time when blogs get through the day without the need to attack someone on a personal level.

ratonthebeam said...

Gerry's Blog. Day 345. (Sorry if this is old news.)

Our visit to the European Parliament on Thursday (10th) was the culmination of several months work. Kate and I presented a written declaration (see news and support) to the parliament asking for the introduction of an EU wide missing child alert system based on the US AMBER alert system. The AMBER system has been incredibly successful in rescuing abducted children. France has adopted a similar system in the last 2 years, which has been activated 5 times with all children being recovered alive.

An EU wide AMBER type system has widespread support. The EU commission presented draft guidance (written in conjunction with Missing Children Europe) on the introduction of such a system. In Lisbon in October last year the proposal got the informal support of the 27 member states home office/justice ministers.

We presented the declaration to MEP’s, answered questions and then held a press conference- our first public speech since returning from Portugal. For the declaration to be taken up we need 51% of (the 785) MEP’s to sign the declaration in the next 3 months. We would urge everyone to lobby their MEP’s to sign the declaration.

The day went extremely well although we were naturally asked questions about the Portuguese investigation, which are very difficult to answer for us, as we have had no direct dialogue with the Portuguese police. We were dismayed to learn that excerpts from our early witness statements were leaked to a Spanish TV station. These were taken out of context and there can be no doubts were designed to undermine our credibility. One has to question why these were leaked on the day when the media attention was huge and who benefits from such a leak? One thing for certain is that it does not help to find Madeleine. We would certainly welcome an independent inquiry as to where the leaking of such sensitive information, contrary to judicial secrecy laws, has come from


In case you are wondering, it did come without a full stop at the end (I did not cut it off!) and yes, you are right, poor wee Maddy finally gets a mention (sort of) in the second last sentence.

Just for once, I would so LOVE to see the Macs put the kids first and not themselves. But I have long since given up on it ever, ever happening. It really upsets me, actually.

ratonthebeam said...

Gina, any criticism of the McCanns at all is taken as a personal attack. That is why the two blogs will never be reconcilable. Sad, but true.

nancy said...

Gina -

well said! - Do you think Swedish Mum will come back on this forum?

And what sort of response did you get from the others after that post on Sassy's forum?

nancy said...

Rattie -

Yes, my thoughts exactly when I read that latest blog of GM! If you read back through them all it's mostly about himself, Kate, and occasionally the twins, and even less occasionally, Madeleine! It's as if he doesn't want her vision to come into his thoughts and I can understand why frankly!

Doppelganger said...

Gina,

Just a note of caution for you.

I checked 'Swedish Mums' profile and it says set up March 2008.

I'm sure Swedish mum was posting here before then.

And the format of the name looks different.

Doppelganger said...

Gina,

Also, on sunday when this blog was attacked Swedish Mum was one of the ones threatened with some sort of retribution.

I also noticed at the same time as you were chatting with 'Swedish Mum' Assassin was posting on there, so she was obviously around at the time.

I am probably wrong of course, I am just a bit concerned that's all.

:-)

Doppelganger said...

I also think Mum21 may have been cloned because the other day she said she would not post there if Assassin was allowed to do so, but she was there today and they were just ignoring each other after being 'daggers drawn' yesterday.

I actually think that after Assassin spectacularly failed to finish this blog on Sunday, that she is now using clones to post on the other blog to make it look like they are not loosing members.

Gina said...

Nancy/Rattie,

To be fair to the other blog I have to say that those one line when I post which is usually in the morning has been fine. A bit suspicious of me in the beginning I think, which is fair enough, but both Swedish and I made it clear where we stood and it was accepted even if they did not agree with our views. Rat. I know anything said about the McCanns is taboo, but that did not prevent me from saying them nonetheless. But you must remember I think the majority on both sides cannot defend them leaving the kids, but after that I am only critical of their media circus, and marketing Madeleine etc. I am still totally confused at to the rest. I too do not think both blogs can will ever agree but for them to keep calling everybody on here Vile and people on here to keep calling them whatever it is they are called (i've forgotten) is stupid. This is about that poor little kid, not us silly bloggers.

Nancy I do not know if Swedish mum will come on here, maybe she has the same prob as me sorting it out, I will ask her when next we speak.

viv said...

Hiya Rat and thanks for posting extract Gerry's blog which is interesting although perverse. I particularly took exception to this bit:

"we were naturally asked questions about the Portuguese investigation, which are very difficult to answer for us, as we have had no direct dialogue with the Portuguese police. "


They were not asked questions about the "Portuguese investigation" they were asked questions about their missing little girl, Madeleine.

It is quite horrific as you point out that he just does not want to talk about what happened to her it has just become a war between him and the Portuguese Police.

Very guilty and unpleasant behaviour from someone who is acting defensively and does not want to face reality.

Gina said...

Dopple, I have a pie burning in the oven. Not sure what you mean, read your posts more thoroughly later and talk to you about it, I really must be off now

Doppelganger said...

Gina,

I think you were actually talking to Assassin, not Swedish Mum.

Sorry.

Gina said...

Doppel, well she better start practicing her Swedish for next time it happens!!

viv said...

Doppel

Can you please, please, drop the topic of Assasin now? Mum21 has always been against her, she left their blog before due to her presence.

She at least has the sense to understand that associating with such people brings them even more into disrepute.

Viv x

Doppelganger said...

Gina,

And since I said to Swedish Mum about men not being welcome there at least 2 Mark55's have appeared, I think I know which one is genuine, but one is obviously fake.

I don't think the genuine Mark has spotted the fake one yet, when he does I don't think he will be very amused.

viv said...

Claudia and I are quite confident the enquiry we got is from the real Swedishmum but I doubt if she will want to post if you keep speculating about her, please drop it, thanks.

Viv x

Doppelganger said...

Gina,

these are two posts by the one I think is the fake

SASS ,
Mark 55 from the Dx
scourge of Dad and Docmac .
have just been watching mainly recently waiting for something to happen .
tell me , is this denial of the leak an official denial by the Pj or just a statement from the policeman who previously said that the pj had better things to do than to look for Maddie .


archer
i would be astonished if that was an actual quote from the pj , more likely from an unnamed source close to the investigation (ie rubbish)
Gordon Brown has spent most of his life trying to become PM .Unless he has decided to exchange Downing St for 10 yrs in prison (for perverting the course of justice protecting two child killers ) then the McCanns are inocent .

ratonthebeam said...

If it is not the "real" Swedish Mum, she will give herself away, soon enough - she always does. Then Claudia or Viv will zap her!

Doppelganger said...

Gina,

Anyone who remembers Mark from the DE days will know he was an absolute stickler for spelling and grammar, so I don't think he'd spell inocent with 1 'n' do you.

And would a 55 year old dental surgeon make the first post?

Even I don't think Mark is that sad.

The thing is, Sassy obviously knows this person is a fake and she probably also knows who it really is.

looks like it might backfire though because the real Mark has turned up.

I suspect fake Mark will now quietly disappear.

You couldn't make it up!

:-)

Gina said...

Swedish Mum I hope you do not mind me doing this. This to me sound like my matey Swedish who I was talking to today. Form your own opinions I am so sorry but I really have to go now.

SwedishMum said...
Good morning all! (my intention was to post this on both “rivalling” blogs but I have not been able to post on Viv’s so I’ll have to settle for one)

Like Gina (thank you Gina for your message yesterday) said the other day I’m like a cuckoo in all this, I don’t belong here and I don’t belong there. I happen to like people on both blogs (I think you know who you are and you are rather many). And to my own surprise I’ve discovered that I dislike some people as well (I hope that you don’t know who you are though). That is a surprise to me since I usually don’t go around disliking people and in this case we’re talking about persons I’ve never even met, in real life I mean.

I’m quite sure that if we all met I would appreciate the vast majority of you and yet there doesn’t seem to be a way to post on both blogs without people taking offence. To be honest, I miss “the good old DE-days” (not all of them though). I fully understand why DE decided to pull the plug – but on their HYS I had a chance to chat with nice persons with a good sense of humour. And at times even contribute in my own little way to the debate (yes Doppel, I read what you wrote). I had a chance to simultaneously converse with humoristic gentlemen (well, you all know what I mean ;-)) like Big_L and Lazarus. I had a chance to exchange views with one of the nicest persons I’ve met online, Betty. Just to mention three persons I never “see” nowadays.

Anyway, I often hesitate to take part in the debate, partly because it’s so incredibly rigid. Either you think the McCanns are guilty (without any valid proof) and get cheered by those who support that theory. Or you think that the McCanns are innocent and accuse the PJ for being incompetent or worse (without any valid proof) and get cheered by those who support that theory.

I’m quite sure that Kate and Gerry McCann are going through hell and for that I feel genuinely sorry for them. I also feel truly sorry for all their relatives; this must be absolutely heartbreaking for them – especially if they themselves are doubtful as to what actually happened.

However, I personally can not for my life disregard the fact that these parents wilfully chose to leave their three little toddlers alone – night after night – in an (presumably) unlocked apartment in a foreign country. I honestly don’t care how “into” their friends they were. And I honestly don’t care how many thousands of other British parents have done it – that is in my opinion one of the lamest excuses of all.

You simply don’t leave toddlers alone like that. Period.

I can hear some of you sighing “oh no, not that again”, but it is essential. Because if we assume that Madeleine was abducted, then that’s not the PJ’s fault – for that the parents are to be blamed. For giving a creep the opportunity to take her. In this scenario there’s no doubt that the creep is the worst offender. But the parents still provided the opportunity. And that is something they’ll have to live with for the rest of their lives. Which is so, so sad and which unfortunately probably affect Madeleine’s two siblings as well.

I wrote earlier that I often hesitate to take part in the debate partly because it’s so stiff. Well the other reason I hesitate is that I actually don’t have very much to contribute with. I’ve kind of had my say and, so far, not very much has swayed my views.

Finally, a praise to Mum21, who yesterday showed what integrity is. Thank you for that – even though it had nothing to do with me.

(Apologies for the length of this post)

16 April 2008 09:48

Doppelganger said...

Rat,

The 'Swedish Mum' I am referring to was posting on the other blog, not here.

But she was making some disparaging remarks about Viv which I thought were very out of character.

I think she may have been cloned

:-)

librarising said...

Gina, I'm sure that's Swedish Mum. Let's not get too paranoid - even if they really are out to get us...

ratonthebeam said...

That is true, it is not like Swedish Mum to be nasty.

I have to go to now. I might try and look in later.

viv said...

Thanks Gina


That was quite obviously Swedishmum. I have not long sent her a link to join here as she obviously wishes to do and look forward to her posts. She probably has not even seen my email yet.

If people want to post on both blogs to try and bridge the gap there is nothing wrong with that. I have posted on their blog a couple of times and just got deleted/load of further abuse written about me, so would not bother again!

Viv x

Viv x

Doppelganger said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nancy said...

Gina -

We are all glad you are back!Thanks for the info and glad things weren't so bad on the site for you and Swedish Mum.

I'm not trying to pretend that some antis haven't been a bit over the top with those anons who kept coming on here, but only after they were well and truly tested!

All I know is, since I was on the DX forum, Alsabella, and now with Viv, some of their posts have been a nightmare, and I was cloned as you know!

I've never been on that site myself and I think I'll just stick to this one where everyone speaks intelligently and since Viv has made it a members only site, everyone has got along really well.

I really do find it a waste of good time to read posts that are vicious and unrelentingly opposed to anyone who think Kate and Gerry have something to answer for which they obviously do bearing in mind that it was their thoughtless and selfish actions that caused Madeleine to disappear. I'm sure their tapas pals are thinking to themselves - "there but for the grace of God...."!

librarising said...

Ah the other blog. All sorts of madness happens over there. I've never really been able to differentiate between the fairies and the kittens personally.

Doppelganger said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dolores said...

Viv,
Any luck with the bin?

XX D

viv said...

This is the last time I am going to ask you Doppel.

I do have other things to do in life you know!

Stop stirring x

dolores said...

Viv,
They have come back now. Phew!

xxD

viv said...

Dolores

Glad about that darling, dont know what happened because I checked and you were still admin.

I just had a play with the bins:-)




Viv x

Gina said...

Viv, I just popped back to have a look and to be honest I am not sure if Doppel and I are talking at cross purposes. When I refer to the other blog I am talking about sassy's and that is the only other one I post on. Have a look at the posts, I didn't see her criticising anyone. If there is another blog that is showing Swedish and me talking to each other it is not us, well certainly not me. I am getting even more confused than I was before now

viv said...

Hiya Gina

I know she has not criticised me. Doppel is a nuisance to both blogs and that was his very last comment on here!

Viv x

viv said...

Hiya Libra

re your last post - could not agree more. Leaving the children to cry on their own was just a little mistake!

Apart from everything else, enough said!

They had a method to stop the children crying and that is why Madeleine is missing and why they are in serious trouble with the police. No wonder they kept trying to bully us to shut up about the negligence on the DE. But we did not shut up did we and we never will until these two are charged.

Viv x

Gina said...

Just had this emailed to me by a friend. It is a virus warning. Do not open anything marked "postcard" with an attachmePlease read: Big Virus coming

http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/postcard.asp

Hi All, I checked with Norton Anti-Virus, and they are gearing up for this virus!

I checked Snopes (URL above:), and it is for real!!



nt.

viv said...

Hiya Gina

Thanks for the warning!

Viv x

viv said...

JANE TANNER IS A MARKETING EXECUTIVE AND A LIAR BUT NOT A VERY GOOD ONE! Thanks JJ for the link to this:

Jane Tanner is a marketing executive by profession, and based on the recent bombshells dropped by Portuguese police, as reported in yesterdays UK Sun, she may well need every one of her marketing skills to explain some huge inconsistencies in her series of statements about events on the night of May 3, 2007.

Here's a summary of her previous statements which clearly shows the evolution of what she saw from an eggman to a creepyman who turned out to be a pig-farmer or a recluse depending whether you believe the PJ or the British media. The narrative which I borrowed from the excellent Joana-Morais Blog begins with the report of a meeting between Gerry and fellow holiday maker Jeremy Wilkes.



The two men, fans of tennis, had already played a few games during their holidays. In their meeting in the street, Wilkins was taking his eight-month-old son for a walk. The producer assured to have talked with Gerry up to 10 minutes, the same period of time in which Jane Tanner affirms to have walked past the two men on her way back to the apartment to check her own children, and at the same time she stated to have seen a few meters up in the same road a white man carrying something similar to a child wrapped up in a blanket.


Wilkins, told cops he could not recall anyone walking past him. Furthermore in all the time he was there he saw no man carrying a child. The TV producer is convinced he would have seen Jane Tanner pass by. He said: "It was a very narrow path and I think it would have been almost impossible for anyone to walk by without me noticing”.
Gerry and Tanner returned to the restaurant separately shortly afterwards and it was 10 p.m. when Kate decided to check on her children in the apartment.

There is a presence of a third witness which confirms the fact that Gerry McCann was talking to Wilkins, an Irish teenager confirmed she saw the two men talking, for a few minutes, near the McCann’s apartment: “There was only the father of the little girl talking to another man.” She didn’t see Jane Tanner or any man carrying a child either.
The girl wasn't in the list of guests, as their presence at Ocean Club wasn't registered with the management. Father and daughter have been in Portugal, to help the Portuguese Police in the reconstruction of what happened in the night of May 3 and to give a formal statement to Police.

Jane Tanner claimed she saw the two men but that was a later addition to her first statement and continued to guarantee that, at the top of the street, she saw a man with a child in his arms. The entire abduction theory depends on her and yet she left a vomiting child alone in her apartment while she sat drinking with friends at the Tapas Bar (and according to the waiters statements never left the table all night).

Jane’s Tanner statements have changed until now, two times, first account was: The man, looking Caucasian, was wearing beige trousers, black shoes and was covered in a thick jacket. He was slim, his height was 5'7" and with dark short straight hair. According to her words, he was carrying "a child or an object that could have been taken as a child wrapped in a blanket" or “bundle of clothes”. He was going towards the church.

In her second report in BBC Panorama’s documentary she morphed the description of the abductor, from a white man to a 5'8'' tall swarthy Mediterranean looking man with “quite a lot of dark, reasonably-long-to-the-neck hair”; the vagueness description of the bundle was changed to the certainty of a girl in pink pyjamas .

Jane, who socialized with the girl on a daily basis, did not recognize her though she could memorize the details of the alleged kidnapper. He was around 35 - 40 years, brown skinned, wearing beige trousers, a dark coat and black formal shoes (though JT didn’t see his face she was able to get the “abductor’s” age?). The “abductor” this time was heading towards Murat's home.

According to her statement, the child was wearing pink pyjamas, seemed to be asleep and was barefoot. This was the detail that she found the strangest “…and I can remember thinking oh that parent is not a particularly good parent, they've not wrapped them up”.

That night, after Kate discovered the disappearance of her daughter (and after Jane supposedly confirmed with another friend that Maddie was wearing a pyjamas of that colour), Jane Tanner made no mention of it to anyone. “I did not want to worry Kate even further”, she later said.

As Tanner is key to the McCann's story about the abduction, the wholesale changing of her story have given many observers significant cause for concern. Those people must now be frantic as the Sun revealed yesterday that her police statement contains yet another version and this one is mutually exclusive with her later statements.


It also emerged key witness Jane Tanner told Portuguese police in her original statement she thought a man she spotted carrying a child moments after Madeleine disappeared, was the youngster’s father.

Tanner, who has been re-interviewed by Portuguese police this week, now believes that man could have been Madeleine McCann’s abductor.


The problem is obvious. How could Ms Tanner have thought the man she saw with the child was Gerry, when she also claims that a few seconds earlier she saw Gerry talking to Jeremy Wilkes?

Either she thought it was Gerry and never saw him talking to Wilkes, (consistent with Wilkes testimony about not seeing her;) or she never thought it was Gerry and lied to the police for reasons unknown, and may or may not have subsequently seen Gerry and the alleged abductor. Third option she was too drunk to know what she saw...and therein may be her best defense.

In any case it will be interesting to learn how Ms Tanner escapes from this tightly woven web of what appears to be contradictory statements.

SwedishMum said...

Hi Viv,

Thanks for your invitation!
I believe I turn up in the nick of a time (hope that expression is correct).
Doppel, I'm the one who's been posting on Sassy et al's blog today and I have not been criticising Viv at any time. I've been scrolling through the other site quickly and I don't see any post from Swedish Mum that does (if there had been one it would probably still have been there, wouldn't you agree).
No need to apologise though, I think you meant well.

Over to something completely different. I see that Gina has posted my post from this morning (thanks!). It was meant to be posted here at the same time - but as we all know by now, that was not possible :-)
As Gina has already told you the response was really nice. So I'll try to post on both blogs and hope that noone will take offense.

Once again Viv,
Thank you.

(And you too, Ecolab, for your kind instructions)

marga said...

Hi everyone!
Great news today about CM being sued! Perhaps he will be fired so that the team isn't affected by this. He can also resign to avoid speculation around the arguidos. After all their sanctity shall prevail!

viv said...

Swedishmum

Hello and so glad you made it, I never doubted you for a moment and glad you appeared to stop the silly speculation because I was worried it might put you off.

I think you and Gina can post there because you do not state they actually did it! Those of us who are firmly of that view of course are not welcome!

It is interesting to have people who can bridge that divide.

Viv x

Di said...

Gina

According to hoax slayer, the e-mail is a hoax.....

Off now, enjoy your evening everyone, hopefully see you all tomorrow.

x

SwedishMum said...

Viv,

as I wrote (though not in those words) in my post this morning I wish it could still be "once upon a time" but, alas, reality is no fairy tale.

Gina said...

Di thanks for that, but I thought it better to be safe than sorry re the virus

ratonthebeam said...

You should never open unsolicited or suspicious attachments anyway!

SwedishMum said...

Gina,

this will be a tough task to accomplish (posting on both blogs I mean). I just responded to your message on the other one!

SwedishMum said...

Got to go now,
try to check in later.

Have a nice evening!

Gina said...

Swedish we are going to spin more than Clarence at this rate. I just went over there and you came over here. The upshot of it all is I have burned a saucepan in the process. Not posting on either blog anymore at the moment so my little cuckoo fly freely where you like and I will catch up with you sometime. Take care

dolores said...

Viv,
Going back to J.T.
These street lamps were sodium vapor lamps,which have a yellow hue which would be difficult to determine white, pink or blue.That has always made me think she was lying, and also she never said what colour the blanket was.
It was confirmed by a reporter who actually saw Madeleine's pink blanket on her bed ,after her disappearance.
xx D

dylan said...

Delores, you are correct. I thought this from the start. Sodium lamps render all hues as just differing shades of grey underneath the orange.

If it was 915 in PDL, the sun would have been down and there was no way she could have descriminated between white and pink, unless it was earlier in the evening, of course....

xx

nancy said...

Viv -

Thanks for the Jane Tanner update!

I have a feeling she is going to end up as notorious as the McCanns and will be telling her story to the media before long and making herself a bit of loose change! LOL!!

The Telegraph quotes the Portuguese Inspector (can't think of his name) as saying that the Madeleine mystery will be solved and the investigation will bring it's results whoever they hurt! I can't help thinking that JT's revelations on interrogation have prompted those remarks, as a result of all her different statements.

dolores said...

Dyl,
Exactly,also she said she found it strange that the 'abductor'had on heavy warm clothing,yet when she mentioned it was a cold night she was surprised the child had bare feet, and ''that must be a bad parent'' and she had on a heavy jumper and said .

XX D

dylan said...

Dolores,

Yes, she contradicted herself all the way through & shot herself in the foot IMO. Silly woman - yes but no but, yes but: Little Britain must have seen her coming!

Must make my own excuses and go. May be back later.

xx

Cláudia said...

Hi and bye, guys!
Going out to dinner.
Just to let you know that I'm still smiling!

xxxx

nancy said...

Swedish Mum -

Welcome back!

Like yourself and Gina, I am on the fence inasmuch as I don't think that K&G are guilty of deliberately harming Madeleine. You only have to look at photos before this happened to see what a happy family they were.

These are my 'theories' for what it is worth, but again I am only saying what seems to me to be what happened, I'm not saying it did!

First of all, my sympathies are with Madeleine and not with the McCanns because she is the innocent victim of their selfish and self seeking behaviour in going off and leaving Madeleine and the twins alone in the first place. Their pals are equally guilty of doing the same thing but were more fortunate in that their children stayed asleep in their beds! We are talking about professional and presumably intelligent people here who must have known that what they did in leaving their children alone was blatant neglect to say the least as well as against the law.

I don't go along with the abduction theory, but if she was then who knows what terrible things she has suffered and to hear Kate and Gerry speak as if she will be safe and well if she is found is to me simply bizarre thinking! She will be harmed beyond belief if a paedophile took her, surely they must see that! Even if she was taken for onward sale to someone who wanted a daughter, the trauma of her family suddenly not being around her must have a devastating effect on any child.

The most likely scenario in my opinion is that Madeleine got out of bed to look for her parents and had a very bad accident resulting in her death. It could be that when one of the 'child checks' was made that Madeleine was found. There would have been complete and utter panic because they would know their professions and family life could be severely affected.

If Madeleine did die in an accident and her body was disposed of by someone to detract from suspicion on the parents, then it beggars belief that Madeleine wasn't given a proper burial, unless as some people think she was buried in the local church in Praia de Luz, or indeed somehow her little body was taken back to the UK!

We have to keep on trying to get justice for Madeleine whichever forum we decide to go on!

viv said...

How the story has changed over time, in the early days it was reported Madeleine was wearing WHITE not pink pyjamas so Jane did not even get that right. In this article below from 10 May Trish Cameron explains who Madeleine was taken from a LOCKED APARTMENT WHERE THE WINDOWS GOT JEMMIED! When Kate returned the door was flying open. Just like us it is all these inconistencies and lies that will form such an important part of the case against them (I am sure Trish Cameron is telling the truth about what Gerry relayed to her)

I would be amazed really if Tanner and O'Brien do not also face very serious charges. Tanner diverted the whole police investigation, she was the only witness to an abduction and she lied, she just had to go down for that IMO. It was one of the worse examples of seeking to pervert the course of justice you could come across. She knew precisely what had really happened and she took part in trying to frame an innocent man, having first described Gerry himself. She will have to pay the price for that.

viv said...

Sorry meant to post this with my above posts, again what normal parent in those early days says first of all words cannot describe OUR anguish..they just dont! All they want to talk about is their little child. All Gerry has ever wanted to talk about is them, notably on so many occasions only mentioning Madeleine as an afterthought when his brain caught up with his mouth..and why does he keep saying she is beautiful? what has that got to do with it? Selling her image?
Viv x


'Let Beautiful Madeleine Come Home'
Updated:12:44, Thursday May 10, 2007

The parents of a three-year-old who has gone missing in a Portuguese holiday resort have made an emotional appeal for her safe return.

Madeleine's parents Gerry and Katie"Words cannot describe the anguish and despair we are feeling," said the father of the missing girl, Gerry McCann, in a televised statement.

"Please, if you have our Madeleine, let her come home to her mummy, daddy, brother and sister."

Mr McCann also begged members of the public who might have information regarding his daughter's disappearance to contact the police.

A major hunt is under way in the town Praia da Luz for the British girl after she disappeared from her bedroom in a holiday apartment while her parents were eating in the hotel dining room 40 yards away.

Sky's Ian Woods, who is at the destination, has said: "With every passing hour, one must fear the worst."

"That Madeleine simply walked out the apartment on her own seems the least likely scenario."

Madeleine, from Rothley, Leicestershire, had been sleeping in a locked apartment at the Ocean Club, a Mark Warner resort.


Madeleine was wearing white pyjamas when she went missingThe toddler's aunt Trish Cameron described how Madeleine's mother, Katie, had returned to check on her children when she encountered the horrifying scene.

"The door was lying open, the window in the bedroom and the shutters had been jemmied open," said Mrs Cameron.

Jo Wheeler, a Sky News weather presenter who lives in Luz, says the search for the missing girl has been "absolutely astounding".

"The Ocean Club handed out maps of the village for people to search - and the areas have been coloured in as they have been checked."

"A group is now heading out on horseback to comb rougher ground."

She doubted that the toddler could have reached the beach, saying: "For the little girl to go to the beach she would have to have taken a long and tortuous journey which she could not have made herself.

"She would have had to have crossed several roads and walked three quarters of a mile."


The Ocean Club where the family were stayingThe Foreign Office said airports and border police had been alerted.

Portuguese police have brought in sniffer dogs and are searching local beaches.

viv said...

Hi Nancy

The reported police version is that the McCanns accidentally killed Madeleine by overdosing her with a sedative medication.

This fits all the other evidence we know in my opinion and does explain why the police can call it an accident. ~They did not intend to kill her, they intended to sedate her and the twins to stop them waking up and crying again, but it had tragic consequences. To me it makes the most sense to believe the police version and it is simple and obvious.

In UK as I have previously explained they would be charged with manslaughter by gross negligence, in Portugal it is something like accidental homicide but the offence is the same, just a slightly different title. If they had admitted this at the time, yes they would have lost the twins and lost their careers but they would not have been in anywhere near as much trouble as they are now. I wonder if the pact of silence is because the friends also sedated their own children but not with such tragic results.

nancy said...

Viv -

I agree with you about all the inconsistencies in this case and especially the change of mind about whether the doors or windows were open or shut which must have completely confused the PJ's!

I have based my theory above about Madeleine getting up to find her parents and suffering a bad accident on the fact it was said that the patio door was left unlocked. And if there is any truth in the drug theory, Maddie could have got out of bed completely disorientated and fell down steps, although I know from having children of my own that normally when children fall they are so relaxed they don't normally suffer such a bad accident as an adult would in the same circumstances.

Viv -I think you forgot to paste the Trish Cameron piece.

nancy said...

Viv -

I just read your last blog and you are probably right - that seems like the most possible scenario. I just think, like you, that this was a tragic accident that went wrong, they all panicked.... etc.

You are right in that if it is proven they will all end up in a far worse position than if they had reported it in the first instance and not gone on this world wide publicity circus!

Do you know if there is any truth in the spin that Madeleine didn't have the eye defect shown in the photos?

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

I have been all through could she have got up and wandered off and I am afraid I do have to discount because quite clearly they did not leave the door unlocked. The first evidence is always the best evidence and Trish Cameron has no reason to lie, she is close family. This is clearly what she was told by Gerry before he had worked it through, he had to change his story when Martin Warner pointed out there was no jemmying/ damaged shutters. This is why I have never believed them. It was a hopeless attempt to get away with it from the outset and doomed to failure and they have been extremely foolish, plus they have brought the revulsion of the world quite literally down on their heads. What they did was bad enough but then they just dispose of her like rubbish, denying her a decent burial. This is the final act of love a normal parent can give to a child. How much better if they had just said we are so sorry, please just let us go to her funeral? Our behaviour was wicked and we know we have to pay the price for that. But all they have done since is cash in and try to escape when they must surely realise they cannot. Their campaign to sell Madeleine's image and attack devoted Portuguese police officers is truly wicked and despicable.

The other issue that to my mind makes accidental death whilst left alone impossible is because there just was not time for them to clear the body away and raise the alarm. Madeleine must have died when they were still in the apartment because a cadaver only starts to exude those chemical smells that the dogs can pick up after two hours, but they say they went out at 8.30 and found her gone at 10. It is just not possible. She must have died by say 7.15 when Gerry in his own words says they "put them to sleep". A truly chilling phrase to use and one that is wholly unnatural. When my three boys were little I used to put them to bed around 7.30, but I would not have dreamed to say I put them to sleep! How can you put three children to bed and at the same moment say they are asleep?

nancy said...

Viv -

I saw the Trish Cameron report and I see at that time the door was locked! That story was obviously changed later. No wonder everyone is confused with all the inconsistencies!

The Foreign Office said border police and airports had been alerted! So the PJ's weren't as neglectful as some people have tried to paint them!

viv said...

Hi Nancy

I have read reports from the outset and knew the Portuguese Police acted very properly and of course they alerted borders locked the crime scene down etc.

I have never believed the revolting lies put out by Team McCann in gutter press articles like The People! One particular article from this paper dated August was the source of about 3000 posts from Rosiepops, over and over and over again!


Viv x

viv said...

Speaking of Rosiepops I surely cannot be the only one to notice that of late her post count has dropped very dramatically. They all know the PJ have them!

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

Yes, what you say makes complete sense. As I said in my first post they all seemed a very happy family in the photos, so if it was an accident due to an overdose, just how could they not have given their little girl a proper burial as you say.

It seems that the reputations of the parents and the tapas 7 were deemed more important! Absolutely unbelievable!

More discussion on this I'm sure tomorrow - So in the meantime Viv, have a good rest of the evening and see you tomorrow!

Just to say this blog is so much more interesting and well behaved since you made it members only. An excellent decision on your part!

Nancy x

nancy said...

Viv -

Yes, I think Rosiepops and Co will be stewing in their own juices before very long!


Hasta manana xx

viv said...

Hiya Nancy

Thanks for an interesting chat and reminding me I have other things I should be getting on with.

I agree the blog is a better place now, for concerned people who just want to know the truth, and want to see justice for little Madeleine.

I do despair of them ever admitting what they did with her body though, which I find extremely sad.

Viv x

leigh3 said...

Librarising.
Just reading posts, and saw your pink gloves. They are definitely off, aren't they? :-)

Maybe the fairies and the kittens should grow up before they s'troll into the adult world...

leigh3 said...

Yikes!!!
Someone wrote that someone is cloning Mark55. Crikey. That cloner must have a death wish. I can't see Mark55 putting up with that nonsense. He writes rarely, but sincerely.

Quick. Someone call an ambulance for the dimwit who cloned Mark55.

viv said...

Hiya Leigh

I bet we are all thinking the same thing about the fairies and the kittens...I draw the analogy with the McCanns going to Brussels to try and make out they actually support childrens' rights, something to do with horrible people like to try and tell us they are nice little pussies really, they can go and tell it to the fairies! I am sure pscyhologists would make something of the repeated changes of post as well, but Rosie did hug the kittens for quite a while didnt she? Our "beautiful" Madeleine..who they "put to sleep" at 7.15 so they could go on the pi** unencumbered by her daring to wake and cry for them.

You are just too nice darling, Bark posted sincerely, who the heck could bothered to clone him!!

"The McCanns are innocent"

Yes, Mark, now go back to sleep, there's a good boy:-)

Luv Viv x

viv said...

Sorry folks I see I forgot to put a heading on this post making it difficult to refresh the page, so I just did, Kate gets some comfort..(!)