12 Apr 2008

WHAT DO THE VIDEOS OF THE BRUSSELS TRIP TELL US?

Don't you worry about Kate, Gerry, Clarence is keeping a concerned eye..
I wonder why Tanner and O'Brien have matching, pronounced frown lines right above their noses, unusual in young couples?

can you believe this guy would go anywhere without his watch and his mobile!!!


Nice bundleman outfit, Gerry! but you could be seen in the dark..



Hiya all, I have been listening to a couple of interviews with the McCanns available here on the BBC website:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7339940.stm

I just noted down some of the comments below from Kate and Gerry. This seems to me to be a couple who are just in complete denial of the reality of their situation. What was the point of leaving the twins also for a recent trip to Washington, how can Kate still protest Madeleine is "still out there". How on earth can she say there is "absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Madeleine has come to any harm". We are talking about a mother here, who admits, she left her and her even younger siblings on their own to cry. We are talking about a mother who is prime suspect for killing Madeleine, on the basis of forensic evidence clearly demonstrating the death of Madeleine in her and her husband's care. But we are also talking about a mother who sat there and gave this interview, not knowing that on the same day shocking details of her own witness statement would be released. Why does Kate always get so nervous when being asked to actually talk about Madeleine, would this not be the most natural thing in the world for a mom to do? Why does she always have to emphasise Madeleine was a "very loved little girl"?

How on earth can she state, with admittedly faltering and noticeably poor language skills creeping back in here "we havn't actually been accused of anything".

Is this the most perverse piece of failing to accept responsibility or comlete and utter denial we have yet seen from Kate McCann?

In relation to Gerry, he tells us that for months he has been working on this Amber Alert Project, but why, how would this get Madeleine back? As ever he is actually telling us he has been working for months on how he can try to defend them.

Again, he tells us where all the spin actually comes from, galvanising the public into responding and providing information…of false sightings and bizarre feelings about other people in PDL etc, anything to muddy the waters..We are optimistic…a further video I listened to he spoke of arguido status generally being lifted after 8 months so then they should be in the clear but as he pointed out a three months extension can be granted. Everyone can be absolutely clear the focus should be back on finding Madeleine, well now we have heard that a few times! It seems to me that Gerry in particular wants to brainwash the "ignorant public" (Kate's amazing words). Sorry Gerry but we have minds of our own. Looking at the pic above of how you just march onto the train without so much as a backward glance for your wife, we have a clear picture of you, too. I notice the concerned look at Kate, coming from Clarence Mitchell. I have often wondered just what are his feelings towards her, does he see her as a sad child killer who he is trying to protect because she appeals to his manly instincts?


Kate: Recent trip to Washington and there is still a good chance that Madeleine is still out there
We have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Madeleine has come to any harm.

I actually think the public are ignorant!

(Pause, hand starts bouncing up and down) Madeleine was an incredibly happy, confident and very loved little girl

Difficult to come here still suspect? You know, we havn't actually been accused of anything you know and um

Gerry: Culmination of a lot of work that has gone on in the background over the months, particularly over the last four months (since the Portuguese Judge said the case must continue in January?)

We want key information to be disseminated to the public to galvanise their response and help lead to the successful recovery of the child.

We are pretty optimistic that our arguido status will be lifted soon and everyone can be absolutely clear that the focus should be on trying to find Madeleine

445 comments:

1 – 200 of 445   Newer›   Newest»
This blog is a waste of cyber space said...

DELETE RUBBISH BLOG

This blog is a waste of cyber space said...

sick sick blog

viv said...

Do you actually believe that your silly comments every morning will have any impact on my decisions as to the future of this blog?

You are obviously a deluded fool with nothing better to do. This blog will continue until it has achieved it stated aims:

JUSTICE FOR MADELEINE AND HER LITTLE BROTHER AND SISTER WHO HAVE A RIGHT TO BE SAFE AND LOVED.

You need to understand that your pathetic little efforts will never change that.

Speak your mind said...
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Speak your mind said...
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viv said...

I note in a stream of further abusive comments you claim you have the right to keep coming here and making repeated abusive comments. I think you will find that if you seek legal advice in fact you do not have the right to pursue a course of conduct that amounts to harassment of another. When someone has repeatedly told you your communications are unwanted and you persist that is unlawful harassment : Protection from Harassment Act 1997. People can and do, go to prison for this sort of conduct and I would urge you to think carefully about your future conduct.

In addition to all of your posts I am of course keeping a record of this further warning to you.

Speak your mind said...
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Speak your mind said...
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Di said...

Speak your mind

I have just read the article on Sky and that is the exact opinion I came to.

Blame the PJ for the leaks and then say we are considering not going back to Portugal and appear victims and try to get the public back on their side. The problem is the public, well most of them, are far too clever to fall for that.

Speak your mind said...
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viv said...

Hiya Speak

I am not at all certain who leaked the details of their witness statement, but they have done the public a service in allowing them to see just how this couple try to mislead the public in claiming to support "childrens ' welfare".

What I am clear on is it most certainly was not them.

The McCanns argue for a Crimewatch style reconstruction using actors to jog people's mind and obtain further leads re an abduction. The Police want a private reconstruction featuring them and their friends as an investigative tool. The McCanns cannot dictate to the police how things should be done. The police will not take part in their fantasy publicity campaign to try and suggest Madeleine was abducted, they know different. There is clearly a stand off. McCanns want their arguido status lifted and a crimewatch televised version of their own choosing. They are not going to get it! The police have said the reconstruction would be helpful but is not essential. The friends always said they would co-operate bu then make ridiculous demands of private jets and 5 star accommodation, another way of saying actually they will not co-operate. This is a fait acompli for the police. The McCanns and their friends are not co-operating they are seeking to dictate to the police and pursue their own entirely different and false agenda, suggesting a couple of child abusers are innocent, no matter they admit a serious criminal offence, in relation to the degree of neglect and heartbreak they caused to their own children. Sometimes you can have the same offence but it is the facts of that offence that determine just how serious it is. This is not the average case of a couple being foolish and popping around the pub for an hour leaving older children. It is extremely serious in its own right, never mind the allegation they actually killed Madeleine. It is an outrage that they are ranting and raving their guilty secrets are out!

I have just deleted your post telling this person to constructively post here, as I made very, very plain to you yesterday, she is not welcome. Please refrain from doing that or you will wear your own welcome out too!

Speak your mind said...
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viv said...

Speak

I think it absolutely absurd to suggest they have the PJ beaten!

Viv x

Speak your mind said...
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viv said...

Speak

You are annoying me. This blog IS NOT about Assasin!

Change the record!

Speak your mind said...
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Di said...

Good morning Viv

It has been leaked that Jane Tanner admitted she did not return to her apartment, on the 3rd of May, until after Kate raised the alarm. The man she saw was before dinner and could have been another holidaymaker. So we know he could not possibly have taken Maddie.

Was it not Jane who had to return to the apartment because her child was sick, so it was all lies. If this leak is true then it throws all the tapas statements into disarray.

marga said...

Viv?

Do you remember yesterday Penelope's post? When she said thet M3 must be involved?

viv said...

Speak


You are welcome here if you respect my wishes and do not encourage nutcases that I have made plain I do not want on here.

This is my blog remember. I make very few rules but I do expect people to respect what few I do make.

Penelope said...

Hi Viv,

Thanks for your positive words about my "running out of the house" posting about the leak yesterday.

Speak your mind

Initially, looking at Clarrie's reaction to the leak, using it as an excuse not to co-operate, I did think maybe they leaked it, but no. It was a total spoiler for their "amber alert" campaign. There is no way Clarrie would want an admision of child cruelty from the McCanns, which is what the leak amounted to. It also puts majo doubts into the mind of the public about the bona fides of the McCanns - who could walk away from a crying child, alone and confused in a strange appartment in a foriegn country?

Team McCann were humiliated by the leak and like a good PR man, Clarrie manipulated this information and used it an a further excuse not to co-operate.

An additional comment: having taught babies ballet classes for several years now, it is very unusual for a three nearly four to have the cognitive ability to say "why didn't you come when we were crying?" Its a bit too complex a thought, and certainly linguistically it is too). A child of that age would more likely have expressed it as "where were you last night?"

I think this statement was a contructed by Kate to look as if she always came when Maddie was crying. I doubt she admitted this straight up, this statement was probably in response to Mrs Fenn's testimony

marga said...

I sent Cláudia an email but think she is not on the computer yet.
I'll tell her to forward sth to you.

Penelope said...

Viv,

I've just had a flash of genius. If only the PJ and Kate were interviewed, who else could be privy to her statements?

THe translator!!!!!!

THe Revenge of Robert Murat ! At last!

(On a serious not I doubt he leaked it, as the whole saga has ruined his life for a year, he probably wants to conduct himself to the letter of the law, but its a nice thought, eh?)

marga said...

Penelope,

M3 are still working for them but not in the search for Maddie..
yopu were right.

Speak your mind said...
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marga said...

Sorry. forgot my manners!
Good morning!

Di, Viv; Penelope

according to Carlos Anjos the leak came because when the PJ take a step forward sth political must come to interfere. He also says that it is not a coincidence that the news was on the Telecinco which had an exclusive interview with the couple..

viv said...

Hiya Di, Marga and Penelope

You have put me in a better mood:-)

Firstly it is very good news if Tanner has admitted she lied. That was what we understood really wasnt it. Witnesses were saying only the men did checks and not very often at that.

I agree Kate would have been forced to admit Maddie was crying because the police would have confronted her with the evidence of Mrs Fenn.

It is not impossible to imagine M3 were responsible for the leak particularly given the contradictory nature of it, on the one hand leaking something very damaging to the McCanns at the worse possible time, but then saying oh but they are innocent. Almost like they are taking the mick! If you get into bed with a bunch of criminals you can hardly expect them to play nicely particularly when they are no longer making a packet out of you!

Logically, thinking it through, yes it was good PR for the PJ, but Rebelo has come across as a man with a lot of integrity who has rigidly enforced secrecy of justice, so I dont think PJ had anything to do with. Really thinking it through and with much help from clever Penelope to help me, I think M3 have got to be favourites here and they obviously would have been supplied with the statements.

Viv xxxxx

viv said...

Right Speak I have read more than enough from you, you are a troublemaker, take a hike!

marga said...

Viv,

Arepa!

viv said...

Thanks Marga

I try to be fair and give people the benefit of the doubt, but there is none now!

Viv xxx

marga said...

Viv,
I bet you are going to find interesting that piece of information Claudia will email you.

marga said...

Speak,

the link ,please!

viv said...

Marga


Thanks darling, I look forward to that then:-)


Viv xxxx

Penelope said...

Marga,

M3 perverting the course of justice, desparately trying to save them...however it seems the British Police and the PJ are well on to the McCanns and their tactics.

Look at how the police have come down like a tonne of bricks on the Shannon scam.....where, though guilty of child neglect and perverting the course of justice, are far less culpable than the McCanns in my (non-legal) opinion as the whole plan shows simple/stupid they were.

With the McCann case, a child has most probably died, there has been international deception, manipulation and lies. Can you believe it? They have admitted to child neglect and abandonment on May 2nd, the probably killed Maddie and hid her body and they have the gall to meet to Pope?

Their protests of innocence and manipulations are truely evil.

However, I am hopeful. It is clear they no longer enjoy the protection of the press and political regime. Its no longer the PM but MEPs, though, it seems that they have had to move onto B list politicians for support...No word for JK Rowling, the Beckhams, Richard Branson etc.....the truth is coming out, slowly slowly catchy monkey as Leigh would say...

Stella said...

Good morning all, and the sun is shining, how lucky are we.....

So the McCann’s have changed their minds about helping the PJ do a reconstruction. Nothing like giving your full co-operation in the hunt for your missing daughter then.

There are many people I know who have not followed this case, but one thing they have all said from the start is, if they are innocent they will one day return willingly to Portugal, if they are guilty it will take a court order to get them back there. No one is forgetting the hiring of a top extradtion lawyer the day after arriving back in the UK.

marga said...

However, I am hopeful. It is clear they no longer enjoy the protection of the press and political regime. Its no longer the PM but MEPs, though, it seems that they have had to move onto B list politicians for support...No word for JK Rowling, the Beckhams, Richard Branson etc.....the truth is coming out, slowly slowly catchy monkey as Leigh would say...

Saturday, 12 April 2008 09:33:00 o'clock BST

:-) Agree

Hi Hope! Nice name now!

Penelope said...

Viv,

reading your post above, yes I think M3 are a v good candidate.

Telecinco are a major TV station in Spain, and a very wealthy company.

Think how much money M3 got paid for that leak!!! The Spanish also love drama (they invented Hello! magazine) but they also love children and will think even less of the McCanns now.

Di said...

Sorry cannot stay for now lots to do. Will look in later.

:o)

Speak your mind said...
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nancy said...

Good morning Viv -

Yes the photo of them getting into the train just about says it all about Gerry McCann - what a gentlemen he is not!! Good article once again - thanks for your efforts.

I see Kate McCann is saying it would be too distressing to go back to PdeL for a reconstruction of events of that night she left Madeleine crying and went out (how could any loving mother do that -something which she admitted to the PJ's) - but she would consider going back for a crimewatch programme!! She doesn't miss a chance when she can get herself on the stage it seems. If it's too distressing in one respect why is it not too distressing to do the same thing with crimewatch? Every time these people open their mouths they show just how their minds work!

What happened to 'leave no stone unturned' then?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - What a disgrace to Britain and to their profession this couple are! Why can't they admit that their actions caused Madeleine to disappear and not try to convince themselves it was not their culpability but that of the abductor!

I hope the PJ's come up with something from their interviews with the tapas 7 etc, to bring these people to book for their irresponsible and cruel actions!

2345 said...

viv,

As always, thank you. Gerry's lack of regard and respect for Kate is alarming to me as my husband is a kind and considerate gentleman.

I agree with comments about CM's very different attitude towards Kate and have wondered about level of emotional involvement.

To be honest, I find it increasingly hard to look at Gerry because he chills me to the bone.
The feeling I get from the photo is 'me first, I'm the boss, follow me'.

Does his lack of manners/respect apply only to Kate or females per se ? Makes me wonder what sort of a relationship Madeleine had with her father.

A gentleman he isn't, he acts like a chauvinist pig. I think Kate struggles to cope with charades and dishonesty; Gerry displays determined street fighter mentality. He's used to getting what he wants at, I suspect, at Kate's expense.

Placing Kate in the front line as the party responsibility evoked much more sympathy and cash. Kate's photo, not Gerry's, is used for front page article today.

Why Kate? Public were told Gerry asked one of Tapas group to check on Kate and children whilst he played tennis. Gerry had cancelled his tennis - achilles injury - healed by next day!

The photo confirms Gerry's selfishness and his behaviour makes me believe Kate is covering for him.

Stella said...

Hi Marga

Thank you for your compliment. I like the catchy monkey thing too. There has been enough monkeying around to fill a circus arena with that lot, perhaps they should consider going into entertainment one day.

I can feel it in my water that we are very close to the truth coming out soon....

viv said...

Hiya Penelope

Yes darling you are one step ahead of me again!

Think how much M3 got from the leak to supplement their income. Now that is just the way a criminal mind works.

I remember years ago, we got a new babysitter for our children and she seemed fine but one night when blowdrying my hair I forgot to put my engagement ring back on. She had stolen it. Her excuse to the police, well they were not paying me very much!

Same mentality going on here I bet!

Viv x

marga said...

I too begin to see a light in the end of the tunnel.
I'm very proud of the work and attitude the PJ has showed and continues to show in this case.
This case has also given me the opportunity to see how politicians deal with serious human questions and moral values.
The PJ are doing their job brilliantly despite all the pressure and tricks to discredit them.There are no different classes of arguidos for them.

ultraviolet said...

this is on the topic from yesterday. i do not usually make posts twice. but i am just so angry. i do not want anyone to miss what i have to say.

this rosiepops is the one who is full of hate. imagine, to protect kate, she implies that madeleine is a liar. what sort of evil mind thinks these things? i pray she has no children of her own.

lavendula is an herb that is used here to send one to sleep. i am afraid rosiepops paranoid rubbish has this effect on me. i stopped reading it after a while as i could not understand it. it has little, or nothing, to do with madeleine.

SwedishMum said...

Good morning Viv and all!

"I honestly can’t believe that the McCanns/Mitchell leaked this story themselves. If they did they must have thought that people are more stupid than people actually are.

Which of course is a possibility, they never seem to hold the “public” in very high esteem."

The quote above is one of mine from yesterday. When I wrote it I couldn't in my wildest imagination see a need to remove the "seem to" (in "never seem to hold the “public” in very high esteem") due to the McCanns admitting that they "actually think the public are ignorant".

But people never cease to amaze you, do they?

I think the McCanns would benefit from starting to surround themselves with people who dare to tell them when they are way out of line. At the moment they only seem to have a lot of yes-sayers in their vicinity.

viv said...

Hiya 2345

"gerry chills me to the bone"

My feelings exactly..this is why I often wondered whether it was him, if it was I would say it was deliberate..

but I tend to think more likely Kate but he caused her to be like she is.

Viv x

marga said...

Speak,thanks!

2345, you said:

I agree with comments about CM's very different attitude towards Kate and have wondered about level of emotional involvement.

Interesting!

viv said...

Hiya Swedishmum

Yes that was a shocker from Kate the public are ignorant!

The McCanns certainly would be better served by people pointing out, rather firmly, where they are out of line.

Gerry can spin and manipulate and does not put in his foot in it anywhere near as much as Kate. I wonder if he is rueing the decision to put her up there as well...um well er um we have never actually been accused of doing anything! No, Kate, the PJ just accused you of killing Madeleine, nothing much, really!!

2345 said...

nancy,

Today's spin "MADELEINE" (red letters!) McCanns: our mistake.

After nearly one year, parents admit thier mistake leaving their daughter alone on the night she vanished.

Can we expect them to be charged, tried and sentenced for neglect
IN ADDITION to being made answerable to Court for damning forensics ?

Don't hold your breath ......

Karen Matthews was photographed leaving the police station in handcuffs and her daughter was found alive.

Penelope said...

Viv,

I reckon after the reduced retainer fee and the 500K DE windfall, M3 are blackmaiing the Mccanns (this is what I tried to say yesterday but didn't express clearly).

Gerry would not give into their demand so they have their revenge via a SPANISH journalist in SPANISH tv station.

Just think how much more M3 have on them.....M3 will be dizzy with the delight and the money of this leak....they may want to repeat the experience - certainly the press are a hungry customer, with lots of money, and this is a hot story right now....

M3 may even go to the PJ and tell them their own suspicions and /or " we were instructed to publicise sightings, even ones we felt were invalid".

He who lives by the sword dies by the sword!

marga said...

Viv,

that's why the PJ engaged me.Due to my gut feelings:-)

lizzy said...

Penelope,
I agree with your post in which you query whether Madeleine would have made the remark
attributed to her on the 3rd May, I have a little grandaughter and have had brought up 5 of my own, this does not ring true, no way would a 3 year old say why didn't you come when we were crying last night mummy, that is what an adult would think a child would say, tthe reality is a child of that age having slept all night would in reality not mention anything, I think that Kate has said this at her interview if she has in an attempt to prove that Madeleine was alive and well on the morning of the 3rd May, when there is a possibility that she was not...

2345 said...

Viv,

I think Kate's comment about the public being ignorant is her denial of the fact Leicester Police released the damning forensics - broadcast loud and clear on BBC & Sky.

Stella said...

Based on the content of the Panorama program and Dispatches, which was heavily edited by Team McCann, there was a lot of emphasis put on placing various Tapas people in their apartment immediately after one of Gerry's visits. It was obvious to me that someone was on a mission to ensure he was never seen to be the last one there. Criminals do this to cover there backs, I therefore can only think this was an essential element of Team McCann's cover up strategy, placing the innocent of the two firmly in the limelight and therefore more likely to get off on possible lack of evidence...

Have to go for a while will be back later.

marga said...

Penelope,

that's what Carlos Anjos stated today in the portuguese press.

lizzy said...

HI Viv,
Looking at the video pic of Gerry Kate and CM show exactly what kind of man Gerry is, how selfish to get on the train first without even a backward glance to see Kate is managing her case, any decent husband would have lifted her case on for her, not rushed on by himself. In doing this Gerry is showing how selfish and inconsiderate a man he is. It is all about him in Gerry's eyes, I think the fact they are talking of wanting to do a crime watch style programme in Portugal ,is once again to promote themselves rather than help the police. Lizzy

marga said...

Well,

have to leave for jogging.

People are perfectly aware of the spin and the links between them, M3and Aragão.And the PJ too.

Penelope,
you are right:
He who lives by the sword See you later!

Viv: same tactic used in Alsa's site. Coming as a friend...but always writing alsobella...

viv said...

Penelope

Re McCanns being blackmailed by M3

You are brill!

You know when you think about it, it was an extraordinary decision for Clarence to say operationally they were happy with them and renew their retainer.

What exactly is it they have achieved for the McCanns? Public ridicule by announcing they were on the tail of the abductor knew who they were and would have Madeleine home by Christmas.

How much better for the McCanns would it have been, and I have to say I expected, for them to say, well actually we are disappointed with M3 and appoint someone else. There again, any reputable agency would obviously not want the job of just producing bogus propaganda for these two. Was the £8K per month negotiated just to keep them quiet, but as you say they are simply not satisfied with this.

The timing of the leak was clearly malicious to cause the McCanns maximum embarrassment and it is very helpful for Clarence to use it for negative spin against the PJ.

I think you are right it was M3 and like a true PR trooper Clarence has quickly turned it to best advantage to rage against the Police, yet again.

Viv

PS Everyone, I am not ignoring you, just too many posts for little old me to cope with. I never did keep up on the Daily Express:-)

I am reading you and they are great, keep em coming!

ultraviolet said...

does anyone here buy a paper copy of the daily express?

there is a huge headline on it today, it uses half the front page. MCCANNS: OUR MISTAKE

but, it is not in the e-edition. and i cannot buy that paper here.

i want to know, is it the daily express who made the mistake, or the mccann?

(i hope it does not cost them another €1m)

lizzy said...

2345
I agree that report released and now no longer available was damning and I also believe if the majority of the public believed in the Mccanns innocence rather than the minority, Kate wouldn't be calling us ignorant then...Lizzy

2345 said...

Penelope,

The police have made incredibly good progress in Shannon's case.
Those needing to be questioned about Shannon's disappearance were taken by the police for interviews and charged accordingly.

The police in Madeleine's case also need to re-interview the prime suspects, CM and numerous independent witnesses on dossier of evidence. Police cannot progress without all the statements they need for Court.

Shannon's family had no option but to conform to questioning and are having to face the consequences.

Same procedures are not being applied in Madeleine's case. PJ are stuck in their tracks.

Prime suspects evaded arrest 7 months ago and police

ultraviolet said...

sorry, i did not see that 2345 answered my question already.

ultraviolet said...

also does anyone buy the english daily star. they have the headline, the mccann will have their name cleared in a few days. i hope this is not true! it is a very alarming headline.

viv said...

Hiya Lizzie

Do you think Kate called us all ignorant because they are spending so much of their find maddie cash on trying to spin us when she could be just spending it on herself. Must be frustrating for her. I mean they have their own personal PR man and we just think he is a prat! In fact they have a team of people working for them..many of whom are also criminals. How ignorant of us to just laugh at their investigative skills.

Sorry Kate but I have to say you sound rather ignorant, hard to imagine you are a doctor when I hear you going um, you know, we never did anything click click. God that horrible mouth click when she has just come out with a real whopper sends shivers through me.

viv said...

Hi Ultra

I noticed too the Daily Express are running some pretty devastating headlines against the McCanns on the front page and on two including mummy we were crying, there is a pic of Kate one side and Madeleine the other.

ARe they getting their half a mill back pretty quick by forcing people to actually buy the paper to get the sensationalist story? I am sure they are taking care to only print what they can prove!

leslyf said...

Don't let those abusive fools get to you. It's great that you are speaking out for Madeleine. There are thousands of people who are troubled by suspicions regarding her parents, altho' there will always be some who refuse to even consider the possibility that these fine upstanding DOCTORS may have committed criminal acts!

They tell us that what they did was within the bounds of 'responsible parenting'!!! .. and the GUTLESS UK media support them. What sort of a world to we live in where its OK to leave very small children alone in an unlocked apartment?

That is bad enough but worse still is the mounting evidence (if one care enough to find out about it) which indicates that they may know full well what happened to their daughter and may even have had a hand in covering up the facts of her disappearance.

So its up to us all to remain open to the possibility that these 'celebrity-seeking' parents may not be all they would like us to believe them to be.

At the very least they have demonstrated a callousness and lack of empathy for Madeleine that is beyond belief.

So good for you, I say .... you have the support of many good people.

xx

ultraviolet said...

viv, if i could buy that paper to read the whole thing, i would not mind to pay £1, or whatever it costs. it would be worth it! i think they will very quickly recoup their €1m. it is an investment for them.

Doppelganger said...

Morning Everyone,

Had a good nights sleep last night so back to my usual calm, reasonable self!

Just watched the paper reviews on Sky and the reviewer ripped into the McCann's and said that they were trying to control and manipulate the media.

This is the first time I have ever seen a paper review where anyone has criticized the McCann's in any way - perhaps the tide is turning.

However, it would be nice if our glorious leaders and media got it right the first time occasionally.

Still better late than never I suppose.

leslyf said...

Ultra, I don't think that the McCanns will have their names cleared within 7 days..... quite the opposite in fact. I am quite sure that there will be charges laid against them in the coming days. How soon? - I have no way of knowing but I am sure it will happen. The Portuguese police are constructing a good case ... slowly but surely.

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
Yes exactly,they are having to spend money trying to spin us their rubbish as CM as you rightly point out is a joke,must really irk them. I think they are an arrogant couple who thought that the public would be a walk over, they got CM and they thought they would have no problems, unfortunately for then people can see through them and thanks to the internet and blogs like yours Viv people can have their say, they cannot be silenced. I think CM thought when the Mirror foum that was it, people would be silenced and forget the case.Sadly for them there are still a lot of decent people who do want to see justice in this case and will continue to speak out until such time as it comes about.....Lizzy

lizzy said...

Sorry typing getting worse, meant to say that Cm thought when the Mirror forum was closed down, he thought that was it...

viv said...

Bravo Lizzy

We wont be silenced :-)

Luv viv x

PS Up yours Clarence!

Gina said...

Good morning all. I see the penny has just dropped with the tabloids. You now have to buy the paper to read the main McCann story instead of reading it free on line.

Regards the leaks: What reason did the UK government give for loosing discs with private records on.? Maybe those that are accusing the PJ of the leaks should also consider that others who are not police had access to them, i.e Translators, typists, computer engineers, solicitors, the UK police, the McCanns, any one of which could have taken copies and past them on, for whatever reason.

Seems to me a mountain is being made out of this but nobody is questioning whether the Tapas questions where release to them in advance and by whom

ultraviolet said...

yes leslyf, i know the daily star is full of sex and rubbish. my husband has brought it back sometimes when he comes home after his deployments. a group of men together like to read such newspapers! but i do not like to have it in the house, because the children might see it.

it is not to be regarded as a serious source of news. but, it seemed to me, to be a strange headline to print.

Doppelganger said...

Also,

On the paper review it was said that because of the 'leak' the McCann's are now considering refusing to return to Portugal to take part in a reconstruction.

Yesterday when someone suggested that the McCann's had leaked this information themselves I thought it was a bit far fetched, but now I'm nor so sure.

The PJ's decision to invite the McCann's back to Portugal was a stroke of genius and it put the McCann's in a very difficult position because obviously there is no way on God's Earth they will go back to Portugal voluntarily.

After this 'leak', however, they can now paint themselves as victims and are going to use it as an excuse to refuse to co-operate with the investigation.

The fact that it makes them look bad is just being spun using the usual, we know we made a mistake - no one is perfect tactic.

Yesterday someone said the Leicestershire police were investigating the source of this leak, let's hope they find who is responsible.

Ecolab said...

Greetings Viv

Thanks once again for your wonderful informative great job with this blog!
If it were not for your great work, I d`nt know where to get my information on `the progress in The Maddie Case´.
I`m very greatful for your work, I tell you that!

The papers here in Denmark have been stopped for a while writing about the case. They are now again back on track! The last days writing, leaves the impression of a reckless couble hiding some very black secrets! There is no pity, for those parents, to sense in the papers! They asked for their troubles themselves.

I really (private) do think, that some people are NOT fit for having children at all . . . . . and The Mccanns were not meant to have children, were they? Technolygi over Nature in this case - What a world!

I can see, there is a poster here at your blog, who is very annoying. Well, Viv... I`m just looking trough "Speak ..."`s comments any way - like an annoying fly! And I do`nt think I`m alone on this!

You could take the insults as a compliment? It means, that you touched a nerve at "Speak"......*

You and your blog are getting worldwide famous, girl*, and you deserve all the Glory! You really are doing a Difference.


Greetings and Thanks from Denmark

ultraviolet said...

i do not think it was paulo rebelo. he looks pretty mad. i am beginning to think, more firmly, that it was clarence mitchell.

SwedishMum said...

Hi Doppel and Gina,

Combine your posts and you have what even I (who is not much of a conspiracy theorist) find intriguing:
- the McCanns get an excuse (a bad one but yet ...) not to go to Portugal)
- the rumours about the questions being leaked to Tapas 7 has been completely overshadowed and not one single person is interested in that leak anymore

And the sole reason is that something we virtually already knew has been "confirmed" by a leaked police report.

ultraviolet said...

viv, here is a little puzzel for everyone.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/maddie/article1033739.ece

your mission, you have to make a better caption for the first photograph that appears.

eurekamano said...

Hi Viv, I saw panic in K but coping, and some anger in G and their desperate need to believe they are pulling this charade off. As someone said, 'for evil to flourish it only takes good men (people) to do nothing'. The BBC has always towed the Mcparty line and if folks would like to respond with comments to their Mcnews stories, full of Carry spin, you can by following this.
Go to:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/

Click on:
Contact Us (very bottom of page)
Television
News24
NewsWatch

Then place your comment at any time. Don't be Shy! Make a difference politely of course!

Now that Clarry's thrown his rattle out of the pram there'll be more spin to come!

Doppelganger said...

Ecolab,

The attacks are part of the price that Viv pays for doing her best to allow freedom of speech on her blog.

And although I know she only set up this site to try and get justice for Madeleine, on a personal level I hope she realises how many people really appreciate what she is doing here.

Viv - No response required - I am not fishing for compliments.

:-)

ultraviolet said...

doppelganger, that is the point. many people (the wrong sort of people) do appreciate what she has done. and they do not like it at all, that is why she is constantly attacked and maligned. also many others, who also have relevant things to say.

viv said...

Hello Eco darling how fab to hear from you again!!

How is the weather in Denmark. I hope like us you are enjoying some bright Spring sunshine!

I am very pleased with the way things are developing in the McCann case, they are seriously on the defensive, Clarence screaming "the gloves are off" to the PJ - a very offensive phrase and often yelled by one who is seriously rattled!

This blog has just become quite fantastic. I just provide the blog but it is the posters that make it so great - it is a really living and thriving piece of humans interacting so well and sharing their information and own personal viewpoints and I know we really learn from each other. The sheer amount of public understanding there is, and opposition to barmy spin is because of all the really great people who give their time on here.

A "reckless couple hiding some black secrets". What a good phrase to succinctly sum them up. The revelations from their statements have really put them on the spot and I think it is a great surge forward in achieving justice because they just do not know what to do now, other than get downright nasty, which is always the sign of defeat. Who knows maybe they will just stop this silliness and give in? the Pj are much too clever and strong and it is not hurting them, they are just doing their job, slowly surely, they break these two down and it is a pleasure to watch true experts in action. They enthused back in October, oh Great Dr Rebelo, now we have got rid of that nasty DR Amaral now he will start listening to us and re-focus this enquiry back on the search for Madeleine and her abductor. Oh please how could they be so utterly stupid, to come out with this rubbish. How can they be so arrogant to think they would get this cool sophisticated and highly intelligent policeman in their pocket. Ha ha he does not even bother to phone them, no need, he understands them very well, and will not be telling them anything.. they can wait for their court date and then they will find out!

I dont know about the blog being world famous but I would be touched to know that Kate, Gerry and Clarence read it, then maybe they would come out of their fantasy world and learn what the public really think!

Luv Viv x

Gina said...

Ultraviolet: Captions

"At first my spin was only this big!"

"I now speak with my hands so the deaf can understand me because those who can hear are not listening"

Doppelganger said...

Swedish Mum,

I am not a conspiracy theorist either - for instance I do not think Diana was murdered.

However, here's another thought, the leak also plants firmly in people's minds the idea that Madeleine was alive and well on the morning of May 3rd and many people believe that is not the case.

As you say, it is already public knowledge that Madeleine had been left alone crying on the night of May 2nd. What is not public knowledge is what happened after Kate and Gerry were allegedly dragged back to the apartment by
worried and no doubt disgusted MW staff.

They must have been very embarrassed and very, very angry.

:-(

viv said...

Hiya Doppel

I had a touch of the grumps first thing but reckon we are both riding high again now!

Viv x

ultraviolet said...

gina

"it IS this big. I am being open and honest here."

SwedishMum said...

Doppel,

I know that was discussed a lot yesterday and I expressed my doubts then and I still do.
Wasn't Madeleine in the creche on May 3rd?
If I remember correctly (from the DE days) someone suggested that it was another girl who substituted Madeleine - but that honestly seems a bit too far fetched for me.

I can see something happening on the 2nd. I can without any difficulty see GM (and KM too for that) getting very angry. But I can't see how they would pull a stunt like that off.

ultraviolet said...

swedishmum, someone suggested that it was the daughter of jane tanner and russell o'brien who was placed in the kindergarten, but using madeleine's name. the two children are very close in age and appearance.

i must agree, i think this would be a very dangerous strategy and it would be difficult to work. i do not see how they could do it without being found out.

Gina said...

Swedish Mum I am with you on that one, I cannot going along with a substitute child in the creche. The creche staff have lots of different children to look after but I am pretty certain they would notice the difference. What we have to remember is that we cannot remember where all these stories came from in the first place, so we do not even know whether she was in the creche or not. Gerry did not start blogging till about 20th May so there was no mention by him about creche days and the rest has just been press reports

Doppelganger said...

Viv,

Glad to see you are well.

I know this site is about Madeleine, but sadly other children are being neglected and abused even as we speak.

Using a 5 year old child to make harassing posts on an adult discussion forum for hour after hour is psychological abuse and I just had to tell the person responsible what I thought of them.

Thanks for bearing with me.

END OF SUBJECT

And if you want to delete this post I will not be offended.

:-)

SwedishMum said...

UV/Gina,

that IS a big problem in this case:
so many rumours about, and noone seem to know where they are coming from.

Doppelganger said...

Swedish Mum,

Anything that the McCann's might have done on May 3rd would have been a high risk strategy, but they had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

The real mystery in this case is what hold the McCann's might or might not have on certain other members of the group.

I could be mistaken but I think someone mentioned many months ago that Gerry was or had been a witness for someone in a serious medical malpractice investigation?

With apologies to Ecolab - 'something is rotten in the state of Denmark' (Shakespeare)

:-)

Gina said...

Swedish Mum, I have long since given up trying to work this all out. As I said yesterday, I cannot understand how someone climbed out of a window with a child without leaving any foot/fingerprints, fibres etc. Neither can I understand how the McCanns, sedated or not could just go out to dinner knowing their child was dead. All I do know is there is something really fishing about this whole case and the longer it goes on the bigger the smell.

I have repeatedly said, and no one will change my mind, that the McCanns should have DEMANDED, quicker action to get the investigation concluded, DEMANDED all friends co-operated in anyway possible to assist both the PJ and UK police, DEMANDED that while they had arguido status Clarence kept their names OUT of the papers in order to allow them to do whatever needed to be done without being criticised for their every move. They did none of this, infact the opposite, so if the monster that they created has now turned around and bitten them then tough. Clarence should also have realised he has no control over foreign media.

Think I had better get on with a few things before I find the day has gone.

Doppelganger said...

Gina / Swedish Mum

Sorry, but I think the staff in the creche would be extremely busy and probably different people on different days.

If someone dropped off a child they would not check the name signed in the book and I don't believe they would be able to match up parents to kids either.

And for all we know, the PJ may not have found any MW staff who are prepared to say for certain that Madeleine was in the kids club that day.

This is possibly another 'red herring', all I am saying is that we should treat anything said by the McCann's with caution, because even damaging admissions may actually be designed to cover up other much worse events.

It could be that what happened on the night of May 2nd led to the McCann's making sure there was no repetition on May 3rd.

At the very least, by their own admission, after thinking that somone lurking about on May 2nd had frightened and upset Madeleine, they 'took the precaution' on May 3rd of leaving her alone again in an UNLOCKED apartment.

But then everyone makes mistakes!

SwedishMum said...

Doppel,

since it's always been implied that Tanner-O'Brien are supposed to have helped them, it ought to have been O'Brien who was investigated for malpractice.
Are such information easily accessed in Britain?

Gina said...

Doppel, I thought all the kids went to the creche, so if Jane Tanners child was signed in as Madeleine, who would her own child be signed in as. Sorry it does not make sense to me at all. However, does it really matter 11 months on.
Sadly I do not think Madeleine is still alive, I think her chances of survival were dashed the minute the McCanns pointed out her eye defect because an abductor can change appearance but not that. I think the DX has a headline our mistake. That is an understatement,
they made at least 20 big mistakes IMO and are still continuing to make more

Doppelganger said...

I think the most interesting thing so far today is the 'leak' claiming that JT now says that she never left the table and that she saw the person she thought was 'abducting' Madeleine much earlier in the evening.

If this is true then it is dynamite I think as far as the case is concerned and if I was the PJ I would be considering bringing serious charges against JT regardless of what happens with the McCann's.

Got to go now, as always this site is full of of very interesting and thought provoking information and discussion.

See you all another time.

:-)

SwedishMum said...

Doppel,

I honestly think your latest post (11:46) is really good, especially what you wrote about them taking precautions on May 3rd.
I'm not convinced though that they would take a huge risk like substituting Madeleine in the creche (that is, as I said earlier, a bit far fetched for me, but hey I could be wrong).
Do we know how many children were attending creche that day?
If there were only a few, it would be even harder to pull it off (or should that be of?).

Gina,

as usual I agree with you. A strange couple and strange advisors.

SwedishMum said...

Bye Doppel,

Have a nice day :-)

Gina said...

Doppel I have not had time to read much today (haven't really got time to be here now) but can you please elaborate on Jane Tanner saying she never left the table. Hey what!!!!! I thought in the Panorama interview she actual said just the opposite to that

Di said...

Hi all

Just looking back in.

I have always had a problem with the idea that Jane Tanners daughter was signed into the Creche as Maddie. Are we saying that no-one spoke to the child and called her Madeleine, because if they did I am sure the child would have pointed out that the name was incorrect. Children of nearly 4 are not stupid these days by any means.

Doppelganger said...

Swedish Mum,

A lot of information is available, I am just being careful how I word my posts.

Regardless of what happened, the British authorities may consider that allowing the Portuguese to prosecute the McCann's would now be just too damaging, so in the end this case may be dropped, whatever the evidence and those reponsible for whatever happened to Madeleine will get off 'Scot free'.

This is not another conspiracy theory, the British government recently stopped the investigation of a massive fraud case because it would be 'damaging to national interests'

Got to go now.

Nice to 'speak' to you again.

Gina said...

Looks like doppel has gone and left me in limbo, does anybody else know about this story that JT has now said she did not leave the table. If this is true it totally confirms what many of us said the day we say her on Panorama, she is not telling the truth

Di said...

Gina

Yes I read about this on 3 As this morning. I have tried to get you the link but I am unabl to sign back in.

Apparently the leak was to a newspaper.

Jane was sken and admitted she saw a man before she went to the tapas bar and it could have been just another holidaymaker. She also said she never left the table until Kate came to say
addie had gone. Or words to that effect. Which if true blows everyones statements for the events of that night out of the window.

Di said...

Sorry meant shaken

Di said...

Gina

It is also on McCann files.

SwedishMum said...

Have to go now,

Have a nice day all!

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Everyone,

On the question of the MW creche staff being able to identify every single child, I'm with Doppel here...

...as he says, the girls were probably not all working on a full-time basis, and as we have seen from newspaper pictures of some of their off-duty pursuits (when they weren't visiting the local museums), not all of them may have been eligable for Mensa.

And a TV documentary a couple of months ago highlighted the fact that MW didn't even check the passports of staff to ascertain they were who they claimed to be; this gives credance to the idea that the company didn't really have much of an idea about who it was employing, let alone what credentials they possessed.

In a holiday environment kids would be arriving and leaving such a facility at various times of the day, unlike in nurseries 'back home', where the arrival times tend to be concentrated into the same period because most people have to be at work around the same time.

It's all very well to say that the procedure is that there's a book for signing children in and out, but in practice, with a bunch of noisy kids running about, and with young women only doing the job so they can have some summer fun in the sun - and with the MW approach to employing virtually anyone - how often in reality were the 'rules' followed?

As Jeremy Wilkins' partner said, there were lots of little blond girls Madeleine's age and it was very difficult to tell them apart.

And after all, K&G may not even have taken a girl to the creche and said it was Madeleine; who would remember?

But if they did take another child there, they may not even have said it was Madeleine until after Madeleine went missing. Who could be totally certain that Madeleine had been there that morning in retrospect in the circumstances?

BTW Doppel, who was the person reviewing the papers on Sky this morning?

Doppelganger said...

Di,

Did the staff even check the name written in the book?

When I had kids and signed them into a 'jungle gym' for an hour the staff who were underpaid over worked teenage boys and girls never looked at what I wrote in the book or even addressed the kids by name.

We can't let this case turn into an argument about how interested staff in creches are about the kids they are looking after, that would play right into the McCann's hands I think.

This is the problem with this case, the issues involved are too emotive and tangled up with lots of complex and difficult issues.

If we all want justice for Madeleine and really want to know
what happened to her, we are probably going to have to face up to some pretty uncomfortable truths about our society I'm afraid.

That is why so many in the establishment want this case shelved I think.

Bye - again!

Stella said...

So what could be Team McCann's latest tactics. Flood the market with "too much information" aimed specifically at trying to create a hands up, I've had enough, I don't care attitude in as many people as they can (my husband being one of them), in the hope that many will switch off and just walk away.

Perhaps there is a kind of reverse psychology thing going on here, like with the Rachel Oldfield breaking news statement yesterday, claiming to have spent the night in Tanner and O'Briens room next to Kate and Gerry's. Perhaps all the children were being kept in the same room purely for the ease of checking on them with 5a being the closest one, whilst a few quickies were going on in 5b. This could account for Rachel saying she was in 5b on the 2nd May, not all night long and stretching the truth somewhat but long enough to say truthfully she was there and not actually lying. If the swinging thing should come out at least CM would be seen to have been telling the truth?.............

2345 said...

lizzy,

I agree with your comments about content of 'leak' not ringing true.
Also, Metado 3's lucrative contract has just been renewed, so they're not likely to prejudice their profits !

Involving M 3 in the case is illegal and so are their bribery and corruption methods.

Leak seems to be 'reverse spin' - distancing McCanns from Metado 3 - their employees - paid to undermine PJ.


Seems CM is trying to distance his clients from their practicesMCM habitually reverses disreputable

Doppelganger said...

LGC,

Once again, you explained what I mean't much better than I did myself.

Can't remember the name of the paper reviewer, but he was very well spoken, my wife (imaginary of course!) thinks his name was Tim something and that he wrote for the Telegraph.

Trying to go at the moment, but the discussion is too interesting.

Bye again!!!!!!

Gina said...

Thanks Di. Well that is the most amazing story so far if true. To actually go on TV and say she saw Gerry and his mate?? talking etc. I am surprised she has not be charged with perverting the cause of justice.

I have not looked at the other blog for weeks now so I have no idea what they are talking about anymore. It would not take much to guess, slamming everybody who does not think the sun shines out of the McCanns I guess (don't tell me I don't want to know). However if this story is proven to be true I am curious what argument they will use to defend this one, and wonder if it will actually make them stop to think what other lies have been told and why.

ultraviolet said...

doppelganger, you have an imaginary daughter as well. you have won an award on the supertroll blog. you have clearly upset a lot of people :-)

Doppelganger said...

Gina,

Sorry, keep missing posts, due to number of people here at the moment.

Someone else answered the question though which is what is so good about this site.

Having my lunch now, then going out.

See everyone another time.

Bye Viv, and thanks.

Doppelganger said...

Ultraviolet,

They say the truth hurts and sometimes it hurts a lot.

;-)

Bye.

LittleGreyCell said...

Stella,

It would be feasible, wouldn't it, for the kids from the apartment next door to have bedded down in the McCann's place leaving a vacant apartment for activities of a pampas grass variety...

There was a splash on a tabloid front page months ago stating that all the kids were in the McCanns apartment, but this could meant that some of the others were in there.

But why would CM admit now that Rachel had been in there? Given that nobody believes anything the Tapas Lot have to say, surely it can't be just to state there had been no crying from the McCanns' kids??

LittleGreyCell said...

Doppel,

Many thanks and bye!

:)

Ecolab said...

di, my bones are shaking.....once again....this "story" is getting worse and worse. Now the JT statement! The hole case is like an ice-mountain. We are just seen the 1/7 part above the waterline.

I thought, I have seen the worst cases ever (through my job) in human behavoir but the Tapas 9(10) takes the ultimative 1. prize.

marga said...

Viv,

i see Cláudia is not around.

Well, I guess that what I wanted you to know is going to appear in Br. press too. Things are well coordinated through M3.

Stella said...

LGC

"activities of the pampas grass variety", excellent, I like that one.... LOL

CM statement would certainly serve a purpose to undermine Mrs Fenn's statement, which throws out the frequency of checking. Would think there legal team advised of this one.

nancy said...

Lizzy -

My feelings exactly - I don't think Madeleine either said that or the other words attributed to her by Kate, i.e. this has been the best day of my holiday ever - or words to that effect, I might have got them slightly out of order. Little children of that age would probably get up a bit tired and tetchy the next day, having cried themselves to sleep, but no, I don't think a child under 5 or 6 would say something like that.
Another one of Kate's stories to hide the truth of what really happened.

Di said...

Gina/Ecolab

If the report is true and Jane Tanner has retracted her everchanging statements, I wonder, could she have done a deal with the police that they won't bring charges against her. Afterall there are far more important people out there.

nancy said...

Viv -

I wouldn't put it past M3 to disclose information to the media to put the McCanns in a worse light than they already are, but just why would M3 have access to the statements made by Kate and Gerry to the PJ's I wonder?

ultraviolet said...

jane tanner is an IT consultant. if your business now required an IT consultant, would you hire her? i would find it very difficult to accept her advise about anything.

Gina said...

Di I guess anything is possible. What does seem impossible for me at the moment is getting a splinter out of my finger. I really must stop scratching me head and getting them. TTFN C U later

Joe said...

I do not believe what KM related as to what Madeline said on the night of May 2. She used words that would stick in the mind that Madeline was to have supposedly said " crying", "alone", etc and "why did you not come" etc. Now any reader would be shocked and then associate them with the date May 2 and Madeline is alive., thus using damaging words against themselves,the parents but the trade off is giving gravitas to May2 and Madeline being alive, especially if she disappeared on this day and no the 3rd, all IMO.

Di said...

Gina LOL

Catch you later

:o)

2345 said...

doppenganger,

I agree with your comment that the McCanns might have been angered at being dragged away from a social gathering on 2nd May. Events this night based on Mrs Fenn's account had many if not all the factors required for a disastrous outcome.

It's fair to assume McCanns had been drinking and were angered/embarrassed that a neighbour had reported it and they were fetched to deal with it.
Why did Madeleine sleep soundly on all previous nights ? She was only heard to be distressed on 2 May.

I, again, wonder the children were routinely sedated for parents peace of mind. If so, did they forget to give Madeleine her medicine before she went out ?
This could certainly cause the domestic fall out Mrs Fenn said she heard.

The alleged 'leak' - "WE were crying" gives the impression that the twins and Madeleine was all crying because they were left alone.

Not according to Mrs Fenn - she heard only one child, shouting and Madeleine call 'daddy, daddy' and sounds of a skirmish. Photographs of Kate around that time show injuries.

Were the children routinely sedated to prevent them waking and becoming distressed ? Parents had ready access to medication and it would have given them peace of mind in their routine absence.

Did Madeleine awake and become distressed because she was not sedated as usual ? This explains why she was only heard awake crying on one night out of five.

Did Madeleine's parents have a row about it - 'daddy, daddy she cried - was she struck by mistake ?
By deducting factors, I believe she was.

Anger/embarrassment/alcohol - an explosive mixture.




Mrs Fenn only heard Madeleine crying - one child.



needed by very distressed child.

mark said...

The safety of the twins .
If the PJ have evidence that Maddie died in the appt and was transported in the hire car 5 weeks later then this shows that the McCanns were involved in her death , a cover up of her death , lying to the police and obtaining money for the fund under false pretences . I think in these circumstances everyone would agree that the twins are not safe in their care and should be removed .Remember that british social services have not seen the evidence and can only make a decision on the facts they have .
In these circumstances I think the PJ may be contributing to the danger of the twins by not making the social services aware of what evidence they have . Unless of course ….. the PJ don’t have this evidence .

Stella said...

2345

Hi, you have a point there, surely one very loud crying child sharing a room with 2 even younger children should have caused at least one of the twins to join in if not both. You know what a tiled room is like on holiday, great acoustics and all.....

2345 said...

doppelganger,

A relative worked with a Hospital doctor in the early seventies; he openly admitted self prescribing Phenagan, a sedative, and giving a nightly dose to his four children under five years of age. He did so because he and his wife needed a good night's sleep every night.

I've worked with GP's and they do self prescribe. Ritalin was routinely prescribed for over active children.

nancy said...

2345 -

Perhaps the Express have worded it like that as a sort of double entendre - the McCann's mistake, but also the Express' mistake for their apoligies. And, no, I doubt very much that the McCanns will be brought to justice, not because the Police aren't doing sterling work, but because there are certain people who will not allow it to happen IMO!

Di said...

2345

Just been reading Coldwaters thread on 3As saying we are in for a bumpy ride and we will see many more twists and major spin.

What are your thoughts on this??

Ecolab said...

Di

If this new JT statement is true, it is a major breakthrough for the PJ and is possible done by a deal, which includes both JT and her husbond!

At the other hand, it could be a "storyspin" leeked by the spinning office.
Have you ever seen a fox in a chicken-yard?
This means by other words, that while we(like the chickens) are running around trying to catch up with the 100 new stories, the spider spins its safty-net hidden from the puplic eye.

I have said all along: That the PJ have my respect. Sometimes a nut is hard to crack, but it will be cracked, and as far as I am corcerned, The Spinning Svinging Mccann Machine is getting their boomerang right back into their face.This is what we see right now!

Either way, whether JT is telling the truth this time or not,the backlash is dervastating and totally ruining the McCann.There is no hidingplace left over for The McCanns and this is now sinkin into their minds. Now The Mccanns are really facing The Point of No Return. Chess Mate

2345 said...

stella,

CM is media manager acting in McCanns' best interests.

The alleged 'leak' is different from what Mrs Fenn actually heard.

This took my thinking back to the question of sedation. What are the chances of three small children going straight to sleep on holiday in an alien environment - according to parents bang on 7.30 ? What are the chances of them not waking ?
Would McCanns walk out and leave it to chance ? I think not.

Did other Tapas parents follow same practices on holiday ?

Stella said...

Nancy

I agree with you, a damaged Prime Ministers reputation would never be allowed, for this reason only justice may never be allowed to happen.

mark said...

2345
In the early seventies you didnt have to prescribe phenergen , it was available over the counter at pharmacies .

ultraviolet said...

i am afraid that if the mccann get off scot-free, some nut-case will then take the law into their own hands. they might be safer in jail.

dolores said...

Di,
It's a foregone conclusion, there will always be twists and spin until thet are charged and arrested.

XX D

Stella said...

2345

You can guarantee if one of the couples were sedating their children, then the others must have also. I keep going back to a child being sick bit and sheets being changed scenario. If a child fell asleep soon after taking something, they woke up soon after being sick, any medication probably would not have had time to work, easily allowing a child to cry endlessly for hours wide awake and drug free?

Di said...

Ecolab

I do hope you are right that if guilty of Maddies disappearance the McCanns get what they deserve.

However, I feel they would have to be dragged back to Portugal kicking and screaming. The minute they arrived back on british soil they hired the best extradition lawyers they could find.

We, cannot extradite known terrorists, but I bet people in high places can and will protect the McCanns.

2345 said...

di,

I'm not surprised, as expected. CM's been playing public and police one against the other snce he arrived.

The Media publishes everything he hands them without checking the facts. CM's acting as PJ's & Leicester Police spokesperson to broadcast misinformation.

Creating confusion is deliberate.
Manipulating public opinion is critical to game plan success.

Prosecutor & PJ are stuck in their tracks; to progress they need to re-interview McCanns, CM and numerous witnesses to collate all statements for Court. They have my utmost sympathy.

Di said...

2345

So we can expect some sensational headlines in the coming days, which will be spin spin spin. Probably DE etc.,

2345 said...

stella,

Theory on 3 A's about sick child is that it's a red herring. No clean sheets were requested - time was spent on other things, moving Madeleine's body. Cadaver scent was found on O'brien's trousers and cupboard as well as on Kate.

Also Tapas waiter said Jane Tanner did not leave table all evening.

2345 said...

di,

Yes, favoured day for brainwashing is Sunday ... more people reading papers !! Misinformation is guaranteed, whatever's coming next.

dolores said...

From 24 Horas 12/04/08



The Portuguese police still believe that Gerry and Kate are connected to the disappearance of the daughter. This conviction was strengthened with the visit to England. A couple's friend also helped

The thesis of the eventual abduction of Madeleine McCann was compromised by the interrogatories made this week in Leicester, England. The key witness that claimed that Maddie was taken wrapped in a blanket by a man on the 3rd of May of 2007 from a flat in Praia da Luz, Algarve, was heavily shaken when she admitted to the authorities that she only left the Tapas Bar, where she dinned with the McCanns and more six friends, after the alarm given by Kate. Jane Tanner admits that she saw a person before she went to dine but she did not see with precision what that person was carrying and it could be a simple tenant of the Ocean Club. "It was a precious deposition because it permits to concentrate the investigation in only one line, meaning that Maddie's parents are involved in the disappearance of the child direct or indirectly", said to 24 Horas a high judicial responsible connected to the process. According to the same source, "the thesis of an eventual abduction is more and more weak". "It would be good that the McCanns and friends accepted to come to Portugal to do a reconstruction on the 15th and 16th of May, of all the events that occurred between the 18 and 23 hours of that day". And the same responsible launches an appeal:" This is not a cat and mouse game. This is not a game. It is the life of a child we are talking about. If they want to help fine but if they demand things that the authorities cannot accomplish... No one cam make miracles if there is no cooperation from them".

The team of three persons that the PJ sent to England, returned yesterday to Portugal. Next Monday they will meet with the director of the PJ Guilhermino da Encarnação as well as with the public prosecutors Luis Verão and Magalhães e Menezes.The objective is to evaluate all the interrogatories made in England and decide the next steps.

Stella said...

2345

Perhaps to explain O'Brien's absence the changing sheets story was fabricated. But I remember the PJ stating they found some DNA in 5a that should not have been there and thought at the time that perhaps some bed sheets could have been swapped as opposed to being changed for fresh ones. Would the PJ have thought to seize all the bed sheets of the entire group for testing, I don't think so? So we will never really know.

2345 said...

di,

Definitely DE, frontrunner in campaign to undermine the case -
feigned apology "no evidence" was the message. "No evidence" repeated yesterday - Kate McCann DE. All orchestrated to sway public opinion against the police and damning evidence.

2345 said...

dolores,

Alsabella confirmed ages ago that Horas 24 is disreputable and unreliable in it's reporting in the case.

PJ were preparing for a lengthy stay to requestion prime suspects, CM and long list of independent witnesses. Interviewing Tapas few alone will not progress the Prosecutor's aims for Court - ALL statements are necessary for which interviews are required.

CM is media controller and news of PJ's brief visit stemmed from him.
Prosecutor ordered a minimum two month stay to obtain ALL statements - this has clearly been thwarted.

Even if PJ had interviewed Tanner and O'brien, which I do not believe, their statements are subjected to secrecy under Portuguese Law. British Police would definitely not divulge statement contents ahead of Court or prejudice a Court Hearing.

CM's controlling and running the case via the media.

Stella said...

With a few exact same choice phrases used by Vanessa Feltz a DE columnist who also appeared on the program "McCann's a witch hunt" supporting Kate and Gerry, for some time I have felt that Rosiepops and Ms Feltz are one of the same. Even challenged her on this a couple of times which was quite amusing and she went very, very quiet.

Now lets just say DE have secured a lucrative long term deal in support of CM being allowed to print what he likes when he likes??

There is only ever one golden goose, only one person can hold onto it, how do you make sure it is going to be you when it is finally set free...

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Dolores,

Many thanks for posting that tranlsation. Goodness, I'm nearly lost for words!

So, the changed testimony of Jane Tanner would compromise not only her account of events that night, but also that of all the others.

Did she actually tell the PJ this at the time one or two Tapasniks were rumoured to be changing their testimony? Is this only just being released now so that it looks like she's cracked under pressure?

Well, Clarrie, Jane Tanner having lied to the police when first questioned might be one interpretation, might it not?

LittleGreyCell said...

2345,

I think I read somewhere prior to the PJ's arrival in the UK that they were not going to stay for anything like the amount of time they had been sanctioned to do.

If they have gone home earlier, though, surely it's good news? If you're not getting anywhere in an investigation you continue for as long as it takes. But surely there's the possibility of them having enough to proceed to the next stage if they haven't taken advantage of the rest of the interview time? They wouldn't have just given up, after all...

dolores said...

LGC
You are welcome:-)
I am sure we will find out when she told this change of statement soon enough. Let's hope it gives Tapas lot a worrying week-end.

XX D
xxx For Opus

Stella said...

Nice one LGC

How very true.......

2345 said...

littlegreycell,

Remember police NEVER release interview details except in Court.

CM is master media controller and manipulator.

Di said...

Stella

Your comments re Rosie, you could have a point there.

Off for a while will try and look in later.

Di said...

2345

Just quickly, didn't we hear Clarence say he had been discussing details with the police or maybe I am mistaken.

2345 said...

Viv,

The threat made to you in third post today was fulfilled with Alsabella's blog. I hope you stay safe.

LittleGreyCell said...

Dolores,

Opus is on holiday in Portugal at the moment - should be sending a postcard very soon...

I'll pass on your love to him.

:)

nancy said...

I've just been reading the newspapers online.

CM says the smears are a blatant attempt to question the suitability of the McCanns as parents!!

I think anyone with both eyes shut would come to that conclusion anyway - they left their children, Madeleine was abducted, according to them,and was left indoors crying with two even younger children while they were out with their tapas pals - is that not proof enough they are the exact opposite of responsible parents? CM is off his trolley and is starting to believe his own spin!!

This case is no good for my blood pressure that's for sure!

LittleGreyCell said...

Nancy,

I quite agree! What's the difference between a smear and bad parenting? If the McCanns wanted to look good in the press, they shouldn't have left their small kids to fend for themselves.

"A smear by any other name..."

2345 said...

di,

CM has definitely appointed himself police spokesman !!

Police would NEVER divulge contents of interview statements to the media, it's illegal.

I always ignore CM and his media tripe and focus on the Police and legal procedures. I don't let him mess with my head which is all he's paid to do - brainwash the public against the facts and the evidence in this case.

Di said...

2345

I'll follow your advice.

Catch you all later.

Stella said...

Clarence I think is having a really hard time at the moment, have you noticed how much bigger his centre parting in his hair is getting, a bit like Moses parting the sea, it is getting very wide. I think he is holding his head in his hands far to much lately......

He could try rubbing goose fat on it to see if it grows back?

LittleGreyCell said...

2345,

Well, Clarence THINKS he is the master manipulator...

...if he was that powerful, however, the PJ wouldn't have been over here interrogating the Tapas Lot again, in my view. And the tabloids wouldn't be publishing anything negative about the McCanns after the DE's settlement, but this is still happening.

I agree that he is congenitally wired to put the best spin on everything the tabloids print(and conversely, there's quite a long queue of tabloid editors waiting to wire up his genitals), but all his contacts and all the kings men couldn't stop the PJ from coming again.

I don't think he's able to be quite so pro-active these days, he's having to REact.

I do agree with you, by-the-way, about how many kids were/weren't crying. It's always puzzled me that only Madeleine was making a noise, and not the twins. Even Madeleine and Sean crying - as we're asked to believe - doesn't sound right, either.

LittleGreyCell said...

Stella,

The 10 Clarrie Commandments

1. Deny everything
2. Admit to nothing
3. Be very assertive
4. Threaten to sue
5. Use the word 'ludicrous' 47 times a day
6. Pour scorn on the police
7. When confronted with an indisputable fact, say "That's one interpretation of it"
8. Care not for the facts
9. Wear a pink shirt
10. Take the money

Ecolab said...

Twins are bonding much more than sieblings. If one twin is crying, the other twin will cry too. If one twin is awake, the other twin will wake up too. This is just the way it works. Take my word for that.

NO "normal" child nor two "normal" children will sleep troughout a night like the one, theese twins had the night Madeleine dissapeared. Sleeping without a peep for 13 hours and 30 people, cars and lights running in and out. Come on! The twins must have been sedated.

Stella said...

LGC

If he's supporting a very long grey beard the next time I see him, carrying heavey tablets with your commandments written on them we will know he has even managed to convince God....lol

2345 said...

littlegreycell,

Prosecutor's focus on examination of all evidence was that there was a case to answer in Court. If not, he'd have closed it months ago and saved a small fortune.

For Prosecutor to proceed to Court, PJ primarily need to re-interview McCanns on all unanswered questions and question them on ALL new evidence. It took over two days last September and more evidence has since been reported. PJ were preparing to question CM for his involvement in PR campaign which has undermined them and CM's association with illegal activities of Metado 3. Plus numerous independent witnesses. A very time consuming exercise. A MAJOR case, death and disappearance of a child, wasting police time, perverting the course of justice and PJ being defamed in the process. Professional reputations at stake as well as legal obligations to the victim.

It makes no sense to have waited so long with Rogatory Letter hindrances to fly to Britain and speak to one or two. Prosecutor's & PJ's main focus has always been the McCanns. For this reason I didn't swallow CM's media spin about PJ's arrival. Media reports since are clearly not Police sourced; Police are forbidden from divulging confidential interview statements, except in Court.

The problem for PJ and our police is CM has been given the power to speak on their behalf; media willingly publishes grossly misleading information.

Interviewing two Tapas people alone, but not prime suspects, does not further Prosecutor's cause and aims on Madeleine's behalf, I do not believe it's taken place.

PJ still waiting to examine Gerry's computer and cuddle cat which they asked for 7 months ago !
Findings are required for Court.

Apologies for lengthy explanation of my views - Police act straight, CM does not !!!

Rapid action in Shannon's case is the result of police procedures with no intervention or influence.




underlines

LittleGreyCell said...

Stella,

I think even God wouldn't dare to write anything bad about the McCanns! (Presumably because Clarrie has contacts in the tablet press...)

2345 said...

ecoloba,

You're right, I'm a twin.

Stella said...

LGC

Can just see him now arms spread wide ranting into thin air saying "let it be said, let it be spun" ooops or was that supposed to be done !! I can never remember

LittleGreyCell said...

2345,

I'm not so sure the police NEVER leak information - sometimes it's done in order to study the reactions of those under surveillance, even if it is, technically, against the rules.

I don't know that the PJ don't have enough information to make charges. I think this would have happened much earlier had they not been up against considerable political interference.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, is what I'm saying!

Are you saying you don't believe there were any interviews this week?

2345 said...

littlegreycell,

DE is frontrunner when it comes to publishing what CM hands them. DE forum's run to his dictate and he closed down MF.

Latest media ploy is to sympathize with the McCanns, applaud their honesty admitting it was wrong to leave their children. Focus is STILL on abduction. Media is always designed to undermine damning evidence on PJ's files.

CM wants public forgiveness and for people to believe Madeleine was abducted.

I must go shopping .... love to Opus.

2345 said...

littlegreycell,

Yes, I am. In terms of all the statements they need, it would have progressed nothing in terms of Court.

Police are interviewing all suspects in Shannon's case, not just the Uncle or his sister. Prime focus for accountability is Shannon's mother/stepfather - same in Madeleine's case.

In normal circumstances prime suspects would have been made to face requestioning months and months ago, voluntarily or under arrest. Not so, on stage in Brussels !!

DE has shown it's alliegance to the cause, and it's apology was words on paper - alongside announcement of 'no evidence'.
Very prejudicial to PJ, as intended.

Ecolab said...

2345

I know I`m right. ;-))

I`m a twin mother and at a certain time of my twins babychildhood, I`ve even started a union of twins, triblets etc. This association is big today and the only one of its kind here in DK.

I still remember my feelings, when I noticed, that the bond between my twins were stronger than the bonds towards their parents. I have written a lot and talked to a lot of twinmothers about this issue.
My twins are 21 years today and twoegged. Their younger brother soon 18.

2345 said...

littlegreycell,

I agree that there are times police leak information to help a case. However, passing details of interview statements to the press prior to presentation in Court is a different matter entirely unheard of.

CM's in the habit of telling the public about his cosy chats with the police !!

LittleGreyCell said...

2345,

I still have a bit more pondering to do on this...it's a pity Opus isn't here to talk it over with me.

Ah well, enjoy your afternoon.

2345 said...

littlegreycell,

I'm not throwing in the towel, oh no, I've been through hell and high water defending Eddie, Keela and two police forces and will for the rest of my days !!

This is why I never let CM's media spin detract or mess with my head. I'm with the police - straight down the line - never have and never will swallow media bait.

In principle, procedures are the same in every country - incident, investigation, evidence, questioning, charge & Court.

SwedishMum said...

Hi again all!

I don't know if you've seen it but Calcite contributed with an interesting post at 15:50 on the other site. Probably just a hoax - but could be worth hoping for.

(I know you don't like that we refer to that blog, Viv, but I hope you make an exception this time)

Di said...

Swedishmum

I don't go on the other site, I do not know the link, would you be able to paste the comment here.

Many thanks.

LittleGreyCell said...

Oy veh,

A post of mine to 2345 has somehow ended up on the Other Site! I suppose they'll take that as an invitation to start open season on me.

Hey ho. I really must get to grips with this technology lark!

SwedishMum said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
2345 said...

Viv,

Is This The Plan ?

In legal terms, the arguidos status expires on 14th April. McCanns state in today's article they are confident it will be lifted. Their attendance in Brussels makes status appear insignificant to those who arranged the trip and gave them the platform.

It is to be noted that the McCanns have not been re-interviewed or questioned on ALL new evidence leaked by PJ despite statements being needed for Court.

Have PJ been placed in the position of either having to charge or clear McCanns on 14th April ? Does charging the McCanns rest on PJ's need to re-interview and requestion on past and new evidence ?

If it does, and this process has been deliberately delayed to be pushed out of timescale, then this may explain the reason for McCann's optimism.

Are Prosecutor's aims for Court on victim's behalf being strategically stymied by McCanns lawyers ?

Di said...

Swedishmum

Thanks for that. What a bizarre post!!!

SwedishMum said...

Di,
bizarre indeed!

But you never know, there are some crazy people out there - and even though I don't believe in it I wish it was true. Wouldn't it be wonderful if this little girl could be found alive and WELL?

LittleGreyCell said...

Probably a hoax from some nutter, but since this whole episode has been extremely strange since the beginning, let's just explore the possibility:-

1. Kate found it very difficult to bond with Madeleine virtually from the time she was born

2. Madeleine was very hard to deal with after the twins came along

3. A Praia da Luz taxi driver has reported that he carried a/some adult/s with a child that night, one of whom looked like Kate

4. Murat supposedly said something about events being a monumental cock-up

5. One of the Tapas Lot said something about things having gone wrong

6. Gerry said something later about having "their own children" to look after now

7. Could explain distinct lack of grieving behaviour from K&G

8. Madeleine disappeared on the last night of the holiday, so they all had a jolly time for the days prior to the incident

???

BTW, can anayone explain to me why my posts keep popping up on the Other Site?

nancy said...

2345 -

I was under the impression that as the McCanns are arguidos they can be compelled to return to Portugal if the PJ's issue a summons to that effect, otherwise what is the point of making them arguidos?

SwedishMum said...

Hi LGC,

doing the laundry at the moment so just popping in and out.

I didn't see any of your posts on the other site - but I may have been unattentive.

nancy said...

2345 - LGC


Surely the PJ's were photographed getting off the plane when they arrived to do the interviews! I must admit I didn't see any pictures of them on television or in the newspapers though! I would have though that being the case, someone would have 'leaked' that by now!

Di said...

Swedishmum

Sorry, phonecall.

I totally agree it would be wonderful if Madeleine was found alive and well.

Do you remember a report in the papers, McCanns sold their child, don't quote me on that it was words to that effect. I wonder if someone is making mischief!!!

However, nothing would surprise me anymore, I also remember Gordon Brown's comment that we were not ready for the truth, and David Payne's comment "we knew something was going to happen but did not expect this" again, not sure if I have repeated this word for word, so forgive me if I have made a mistake.

Miss Marples where are you when we need you!!!!!!

Di said...

LGC

Posts popping up on other site....



Could it be they love your sense of humour, just like myself, you brighten my day and I am sure many others.

:o)

SwedishMum said...

Di,

I don't recall either Gordon Browns or David Payne's comments and don't get me wrong, I don't doubt you, but did they really say something like that?
What possible reason could GB have for making such a statement?

nancy said...

Swedish Mum - Brian's post!

I have thought about the possibility that Madeleine was 'handed over' to someone whom they know for some time and the fact that they also know she is safe; otherwise why would they say, which they have, that she is safe and well and why have they behaved like parents who have lost a stray tortoise rather than a child? Obviouly that doesn't take into account the forensic and cadaver dog evidence, but I suppose evidence could have been planted!

I am probably barking up the wrong tree here, but the fact that Murat made that statement about it all being a monumental cockup,and he knowing the McCanns before their holiday in PdeL - in other words it could all have been a scam to get worldwide sympathy and obviously lots of lovely money, knowing that one day they will be reunited with Madeleine, or the supposed 'abductor' will release her!

When you think how everything was put into motion so quickly, via Gerry's mobile. If Madeleine is being looked after by someone they know then all I can say is that whoever she is with must have kept her completely incognito with all the publicity that has gone and is still going on!

I know that that a few others have come up with this theory too! I would love it to be true and that Madeleine is indeed safe and well!

I'm sure the PJ's have considered this possibility, and maybe Kate refused to answer the relevant questions about that theory.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we set out to deceive!!

nancy said...

Anyone!

Can someone tell me why there is a delete dustbin at the bottom of my blogs and how I can get rid of it please?

Di said...

Swedishmum

I cannot remember where these comments originated from, perhaps someone else out there can help, please....

However, I can remember discussing these comments on Alsabella's site and here and certainly on 3As.

Ecolab said...

Di et all

Even if Mrs. Marple and Hercule Poirot were here, no one would believe!

nancy said...

LGC -

I just loved the ten Clarrie commandments: very witty and it's good to have a laugh on this blog because it can get really tense at times!

I'm going for a walk now before the night closes in - see you all later!

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