20 Apr 2008

LET US REMEMBER MADELEINE IS THE VICTIM


Hi All

One of my posters reminded me that we are currently all getting caught up in a vicious battle the McCanns are currently waging against the Portuguese Police. On Sunday, 20 April 2008, the Daily Mail published a thoroughly libellous article against them, but was then forced to withdraw it the same day. I hope the Portuguese Police take appropriate action against the Daily Mail. For too long they have allowed themselves to just be used by Kate and Gerry McCann to put out the most sickening propaganda. They have a moral duty to their readers to fairly and accurately report the news and a legal duty to ensure what they print is fair and accurate, it will be no good blaming Clarence Mitchell or Kate and Gerry McCann when the libel writ arrives.

Whilst all this is going on we lose sight of what this is all about and the real victim, MADELEINE BETH McCANN. A little girl who her mummy says at breakfast time on 3 May 2007 said, mummy me and Shaun were crying for you last night where were you?

On that same day, little Madeleine disappeared never to be seen again. As early as June, her father was acknowledging this with comments such as he wanted a major one year anniversary event. A spectacle I think most of us actually dread. We are entitled to believe in the police case that her parents were involved in her death. Her father even ranted "well find the body and prove we killed her".

I have seen emails written by both Goncalo Amaral and Leicestershire Police in which they write in the most heartfelt way, this case is about a little girl that went missing and we are trying to find out what happened to her. That is what they are doing, and I hope all decent people will recognise that and focus on the real issue in this case, a beautiful little girl lost her life and her parents admit they seriously neglected her and caused terrible distress to her and her even tinier little brother.
Let us not forget either little Sean and Amelie who lost their beloved big sister and will be deeply traumatised by that no matter how much her parents may try to deny it.

I have also posted an article about another forgotten victim in this case, Robert Murat, only made an arguido on the basis of false evidence provided to police by friends of Kate and Gerry McCann that he was hanging around, or that someone looking like him and heading in the direction of his villa was carrying little Madeleine off. No one can imagine the terrible trauma and fear this man has had to endure or that of his girlfriend Michaela, a mother herself.

Whilst thinking of some more victims that Kate and Gerry McCann have created let us also spare a thought for Fr Pachecho, formerly a happy man living with other Priests and known in the community for his sunny personality. He befriended Kate and Gerry McCann, he believed in them, he offered them the keys to the church. They used him and left without so much as saying goodbye. He was reprimanded for handing them the keys and becoming too involved. He feels shattered and betrayed. He now lives a reclusive life having moved back in with his parents and living with the terrible trauma of knowing how his trust was so badly misplaced.

Let us also think of Pamela Fenn an elderly lady who thought she had moved to a beautiful place for her retirement, but she has listened to the cries of Madeleine, the cries of Kate McCann and must now be a police witness to terrible events that happened. How can we imagine how she must feel?

Let us also think of all the relatives of Madeleine and their heartbreak and torn loyalties between a little girl who they loved, but who died, and her parents who stand accused of causing that death. Life must be horrible for them too.

Lastly, I used to be married to a policemen. Policemen, just like any normal person get very distressed when a child loses their life. I remember ny husband attending a road accident and cradling a little boy in his arms as he died, and trying to console my husband about this. We had little boys at the time and he was inconsolable. Let us try and imagine how the Portuguese Police officers must have been feeling as they frantically hunted trying to find little Madeleine and how they ultimately had to come to terms with the fact the only thing they may find is her corpse. This is devastating. They are parents and grandparents themselves and suffer, the anguish and sadness, just like we all do. Do they actually deserve what has been written about them? I really do not think so.

I hope we can all try and focus on the real issues in this case, the loss of little Madeleine McCann who we have all come to love because we have seen so many pictures of her and built up an image of what a lovely little girl she was with her whole life ahead of her. Let us not forget all the other victims as well.

Viv x



From The Times
August 25, 2007
The forgotten victim in the McCann case
Our columnist on the disgraceful hounding of Robert Murat
Matthew Parris
Do you have a mother? Have you ever shared a house with her? Might you have dealt with anyone a couple of years past his teens who (for all you know) could have boasted to someone else about seducing an underage girl? Might you be separated from a spouse and conduct another affair? Might you love your daughter? Might you have a cellar in your house? Might you assist local efforts to trace a missing child?
Well watch out, because if any toddler should go missing anywhere near you, and you were to be (not unreasonably) questioned by police, the British press could have had you hanged, drawn and quartered by Monday.
A life has been destroyed after the abduction of Madeleine McCann. Perhaps two, for we do not yet know Madeleine’s fate, and perhaps we never will. But for Robert Murat, the one-time suspect whom much of the British newspaper industry and parts of the Portuguese media casually decided to convict, a life lies in ruins. There is no redemption for Mr Murat now, not if the Angel Gabriel should appear on television to exonerate him. The name alone brings a shudder.
But nobody closely involved with this case believes any longer that Mr Murat is anything but an innocent man. For the rest of the world, however, glancing in passing at headlines and skimming news reports over its coffee, the name Murat is now synonymous with “creepy oddball and obvious suspect”.
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Madeleine McCann: the key questions
Why are the "Tapas 9" key to solving the Madeleine mystery?
Related Internet Links
· The latest full coverage of Madeleine McCann
Background
· McCanns consider interview bids
· Madeleine McCann: the global reaction
· The forgotten victim in the McCann case
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Multimedia
· Pictures: searching for Madeleine
· -->Video: McCann family start holiday
His reputation will not now be rescued even by the arrest and conviction of anyone else. Imagine today giving your name at a hotel reception as Robert Murat — or Colin Stagg, or Sally Clark. Linkages between a crime and a name are set up in the public imagination and persist even after the story has changed direction. “Robert Murat — wasn’t he the one suspected of taking Maddie? Or cleared of it? Whatever. Mixed up in it anyway.”
For the record, Robert Murat is an Anglo-Portuguese man in his early thirties who has separated from his English wife, has a girlfriend estranged from her own husband, and is sharing a house with his mother, not far from where Madeleine McCann disappeared. After her disappearance he volunteered to help. He hired a car for a few days. His house has a cellar. He has a friendly business connection with a 22-year-old
Russian IT operative, Sergey Malinka, who was (it was reported) claimed by a workmate once to have boasted about underage sex. Mr Murat and Mr Malinka have spoken to each other on mobile phones. And Mr Murat has a four-year-old daughter who (somebody says) looks like Madeleine. Oh — and he’s blind in one eye.
Allegations have swirled around about computers on which pornographic websites have been accessed; but as a large proportion of computers worldwide would answer to that description and the claims have been neither confirmed nor elucidated, I shall not pursue these.
Now watch the British media at work. Exercising a courtesy not extended to Mr Murat, I shall name neither papers nor reporters. Let the headlines (in italics) and reports that follow provide a handy journalists’ guide to assassination-by-innuendo.
“ MADDIE SUSPECT BEHAVED JUST LIKE HUNTLEY: Kidnapping has weird echoes of Soham case. The prime suspect in the kidnap of Madeleine McCann interfered in the investigation as soon as the search for her began, it emerged yesterday. Briton Robert Murat, 33, even tried to comfort Madeleine’s distraught parents, Kate and Gerry, in the hours after she was snatched . . . One holidaymaker said: ‘There was a feeling that his behaviour was similar to that displayed by Huntley.’ Murat was said to have volunteered to act as a translator . . .”
“ Maddie: Russian ‘pervert’ quizzed by cops. A Russian computer ace linked to suspect Robert Murat was being quizzed last night . . . Sergey Malinka, 22 . . . who helped Murat, 33, set up a website – was picked up in a police swoop . . .
“ HUNT FOR MADDIE: POLICE IN NEW VILLA SWOOP COMPUTER RAID. . . Malinka, 22, said he . . . worked on a computer owned by the one-eyed Briton . . . Meanwhile it emerged there is an underfloor chamber at [Murat’s] home, 100 yards from where Maddie, four, was snatched as she slept in a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz a fortnight ago . . .”
“ Revealed: The cellar in suspect’s villa. . .‘There is a hole in the floor that we used as access when we were putting all the pipes in, so it’s big enough for a man to get down inside.’” “ His girl is the spitting image of Madeleine. Robert Murat has been pining for his four-year-old daughter Sofia, a ‘spitting image’ of missing Madeleine, friends revealed yesterday . . .”
“ Sex secret of Madeleine suspect: Briton ‘shared’ the wife of pool cleaner at villa. While friends and relatives portrayed suspect Robert Murat as a devoted family man, a darker picture emerged of an irritating oddball who loves to be the centre of attention. A one-eyed estate agent, former car salesman and turkey farm worker . . . it also emerged that Murat was caught up in a bizarre love triangle . . .”
“ One minute the Murats were happy with their new life in Portugal, the next their marriage was in tatters . . . his wife never said why it ended FAMILY FRIEND: Friends of Robert Murat’s ex-wife told last night how she suddenly walked out on him — but she would not say why.”
“ A PHONEY ALIBI? 11.40pm call on the night she went missing. Murat told police he was at home in bed” . . . Detectives are said to be concerned that though Murat and Malinka claim to be only business acquaintances they were captured on CCTV speaking animatedly . . . Murat also rented a hire car for three days after the abduction, possibly after he realised he was under police surveillance.”
“ The police haven’t told the family what is on Murat’s computer. They want to shield them. . .” . . . And so it went on for about a week: a week in which Mr Murat saw his good name torn apart. The damage done, a cautionary note then crept in . . .
“Despite the discoveries, nothing was found to connect Briton Murat to Madeleine . . .”
And, months later, nothing has been. There is speculation that the Portuguese police will formally exonerate Mr Murat soon. I don’t even know he is innocent. But I do know that, though “innocent until proved guilty” is a counsel of perfection, and though it is sometimes impossible to write useful reports without fingering guilty and innocent alike, there are still limits — cloudy though they must necessarily be. Reporting in this case has smashed right through them.
The whole disgusting business, the whole media-driven infatuation with this little girl and her parents, the whole sick, morbid, sentimental campaign of news generation and news manipulation, has been a disgrace to the British media.

212 comments:

1 – 200 of 212   Newer›   Newest»
viv said...

HI All I dont know whether you have seen this (FROM Joana Morais) but it confirms the statement released of Kate's was one given to their detectives and is not part of the official police file. Therefore deliberately leaked as a means of attacking the PJ so that they can avoid the reconstruction they were asked to take part in during the week the PJ attended here to question the TAPAS. Quite extraordinary behaviour and another disastrous tactic.. Clarence seems to be making himself a defendant rather than "helping" the McCanns, would you call him??? I think I said before if I was in big trouble I would pay him to stay away:-)))) x Viv


PJ of Portimão takes legal action against McCann’s spokesman


Controversy: Kate's statement to detectives

The declarations of Kate McCann remembering a conversation with her daughter Maddie, on the day in which she disappeared, on the fact that in the previous night Kate left the girl crying in the bedroom are not in the official process secured by the Judiciary Police, established the CM. They were reproduced by the Spanish TV channel Telecinco, the journalist Nacho Abad says to have proofs that they are true - but in fact, they are accounts given by Kate to private detectives.

The process continues in secrecy of justice, but, 'on the day that the process is opened to the public, it will be easy to prove that those declarations are not there ', said a source close to the investigations. Therefore, this leak of information could never have appeared from inside the Judiciary Police.

'On the day in which this situation is clarified accurately ', Clarence Mitchell will be the target of a process for the damages caused against the image of the elements of the Department of Criminal Investigation of Portimão, after they had been 'unfairly accused' by the McCann’s spokesman of passing informations that are part of the process to the Media.


Besides, the British police also know that Kate's declarations, about her difficult relationship with the daughter, are not in the process. When the Spanish TV channel reproduced them a PJ’s team was in Leicester, in the period in which the McCann’s friends were heard, and the English authorities confirmed to be Kate's account to the private investigators. It is a company that worked for the couple before the Metódo3 agency and, in the end, they printed a report where these sentences are in. According to our sources, only three parts kept copies of these documents: the company, the McCanns and the British authorities.

The problems with the international press do not end here, yesterday, it was the Telegraph turn to advance 'declarations' from Guilhermino Encarnação, where after a meeting with the Public Prosecutor, he would have said that ‘The investigation will bring its results, whoever they hurt', a source close to the responsible of the Faro's PJ guarantees to the CM that none of this is true.

DETAILS

ASFIC SUPPORTS PROCESS

Contacted by the 'CM', the president of the Criminal Investigation Officers' Union, Carlos Anjos, guarantees to be available for the whole legal support that the investigators of Portimão need if they understand to sue the McCann’s spokesman Clarence Mitchell, McCann, for damages against the image of the department.

RE-ENACTMENT

Carlos Anjos believes that the controversy created around Kate's declarations, with accusations to the PJ for the eventual leak of information which damages the couple credibility, 'is nothing more than a stratagem in order that they do not have to collaborate with the Portuguese justice'. In question there is a re-enactment of the crime, requested by the PJ but that, according to the couple’s spokesman, will only happen if they stop being arguidos.

Source: Correio da Manhã

hope4truth said...

Morning Viv

Poor little thing did not stand a chance... I am convinced even more that had Madeleine had Karen Mathews for a Mother who acted in exactly the same way as Kate by neglecting her children many people who defend the McCanns would be openly condeming Karen.

There is no excuse for leaving their children alone and now with Kates comments out in the open that she and Gerry knew that the children were upset the night before they have grown more heartless in my eyes.

I was lucky with my children when they started school they did not cry and took it all in their stride (it was me that left the classroom in tears along with other Mum's and Dad's) but for the children who did cry parents stayed behind to comfort them and when they finaly got out would hide to peep back through the window to make sure their child was ok (given a few minutes and they were as happy as Larry and the parents left feeling guilty)probebly to spend the day worrying.

My youngest had a minor operation a few years ago she was only in for day surgery and all her bravery slipped when she had to climb on to the trolley and she said she had changed her mind and really cried all I wanted to do was pick her up and run away. The Anaesthetist said let her cry the more she breaths in the quicker she will be out. He was right withing a few seconds she was out for the count. I kissed her and walked away and was told to return in half an hour and I spent the longest half an hour of my life wandering around (in tears)I ended up in the gift shop and bought a Toy Dog that cost £25 for when she woke up (It would have been £10 in Woolworths) but although it was not my fault I felt like a terrible Mother for allowing her to go through it (after a few hours she was nearly back to her normal self)....

One of the things I have never understood is how they could have gone out knowing the children were alone? How can you enjoy a meal wondering if your child has woken up and may have found the knife drawer or the plug socket or they are crying for you and you cant hear them???

There are many people who's lives have been devestated by this the PJ as you say are parents and grandparents the priest who wanted to help residents of PDL and all of Madeleines family but although this will always affect their lives the pain will ease and life will go on.

Madeleine is not afforded that chance if she is still alive (which I dont believe she is) she will not be living the life she and every other child deserves to live she will be going through hell and if this is the case being left in an unlocked room while her parents were to far away to know if she and the twins were safe or not.

Neglect is wrong no excuse wrong and Madeleine has paid the price for the lack of care by her parents but I am sure they will keep spinning until everyone else is wrong and they are voted parents of the year.

God Bless Madeleine and all abused and neglected children xxx

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
I think the title of your article sums it up, Madeleine is the victim not her parents,supporters of the Mcanns would have us believe they are the victims,constantly saying how unfair it is how they are still Arguidos, Team Mccann are clearly getting desperate now in trying to blame the Portuguese police for leaking information they themselves leaked in order to convince the public the police are inefficient and corrupt. I think however it has done them no favours, they are transparent and people are seeing through their strategies. I sincerely hope that they are all brought to justice for what they have done, CM included as he is guilty of so many lies ..Lizzy

lizzy said...

Hi Viv,
I just want to thank you for the invite to post on your blog
and am glad you accept my apologies for doubting the blog was still in your hands.I have no doubt you are Viv who I remember from the DE , and owner of the blog and look forward to posting on here again..Lizzy

isis said...

MorningLizzy, its lovely to see you here again, your contribution was missed.

Niki said...

Morning Viv! Thank you for yet another good tread!

This issiue with your husband and other police-men who sees missery every day getting so disstressed when a child is involved really touch me...

I looked up parental instinct at google, and found this:

Why Do We Love Babies? Parental Instinct Region Found In The Brain
ScienceDaily (Feb. 27, 2008) — "Why do we almost instinctively treat babies as special, protecting them and enabling them to survive? Darwin originally pointed out that there is something about infants which prompts adults to respond to and care for them which allows our species to survive."

" a region of the human brain called the medial orbitofrontal cortex is highly specifically active within a seventh of a second in response to (unfamiliar) infant faces but not to adult faces."

"Postnatal depression is common and there are some experimental evidence suggesting that mothers with postnatal depression have difficulties in responding to infant cues. Further research could identify whether the present finding of early and specific medial orbitofrontal responses to infant faces (own and others) are affected and even suppressed by depression, thereby helping to explain this lack of maternal responsiveness. The present paradigm could eventually provide opportunities for early identification of families at risk"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080226213448.htm
----

Lizzy, hi! Good to see you:)

Niki

nancy said...

Lizzy -

It's lovely to see you on here! Welcome aboard!

Yes, there is no doubt it's Viv! She is certainly a 'one off'lady, who spends so much of her time and energy in keeping this blog open, together with Claudia, who is unstinting in her support to help get justice for Madeleine!

Nancy x

isis said...

Public Prosecutor is preparing accusation of negligence against Maddie's parents

McCanns risk ten years in jail

Text Carlos Tomás

"The Public Prosecutor has already enough evidence to accuse the McCanns with or without the reconstruction of the facts that occurred in the day that the girl disappeared". The guarantee was given to 24 Horas by a judicial responsible that has been following the investigation. The same source added that the accusation will only be made in July and that the McCanns can face a penalty "till 10 years in jail". Another responsible connected to the case stated: "We know that the girl disappeared and there are strong evidence that she died in the flat, apparently in an accidental way. There are also strong probabilities that her body was hidden. Nonetheless, independently of that there is clear evidence face to our law that the parents of the child left her and the twins exposed to an eventual crime of seizure.
They had the duty of protection and that is a crime of negligence".

Investigations continue

Contacted by the 24 Horas, Guilhermino Encarnação, Director of the PJ of Faro, said: "the investigations continue and when there is something relevant to divulge" about the media case "that will be done through the official channels".

They will continue as arguidos

A source of Portimão's court said to the 24 Horas that the public prosecutor Magalhães e Menezes that conducts the enquiry is already working in the accusation against the McCanns and that it will be made public "shortly". Meaning, the probability of the McCanns stop being arguidos in the next months is almost null. 24 Horas also discovered that Robert Murat and his old partner have strong possibilities of not being involved in the accusation.
http://www.24horasnewspaper.com/total.p ... 23&link=09


Taken from the 3as translation by Li. Dont know how accurate 24 horas is , mabey claudia will let us know later.

nancy said...

Hi Lizzy -

(I already posted this but it seems to have got lost)!!

Welcome back to Viv's blog!

There is no doubt that she is the true Viv, as all of us who used to post on the DX will know!

The more the merrier as they say and your posts are always an interesting read!

Stella said...

Good morning everyone.

It has become very apparent that Team McCann are changing tactics. They had to really if you think about it, they were loosing every hand and their pot of money is rather low. So the question is why is it so necessary to up the stakes. Why are we now seeing more and more attacks against the PJ? Innocent people with no evidence against them would not need to wage such an enormous defence campaign. So what can we expect to see?, I think what we are seeing now has to be the work of a confidence trickster, a wolf in sheep’s clothing otherwise known as a plant. Why, because a unanimous group much like a unanimous jury is very, very powerful and therefore dangerous. Having just one person in the right place whose aim is NOT to get themselves banned, but whose real mission is to continuously repeat a very specific message i.e., PJ are not doing a good job, the abductor took Madeleine, there is no evidence, la, la, la and so on, is seriously required to maintain a certain degree of uncertainty in the minds of all new arrivals and any possible fence sitters. Their mission is to limit the ever increasing masses of knowledgable, more questioning individuals who will prevent them from succeeding.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, everyone is entitled to free speech, but what I think is wrong is paying people to wage a campaign on brainwashing others to suit their needs, especially when their needs are to pervert the course of justice.

Keep up the good work Viv, the world needs more people like you and Alsabella who refuse to be a doormat. Keep going PJ, may God give you the strength to see this to it's full conclusion.

nancy said...

Isis -

thanks for that post from 24 horas! Perhaps that information coming out has prompted the Daily Mail to pull their article condemning the PJ's last night!

isis said...

Hi Nancy, as i said i dont know how credible the paper is, time will tell. The article from the daily mail yesterday was pulled with good reason.

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

Thanks for the very compassionate article about Madeleine - it's difficult to keep the tears from flowing to type this!

Madeleine was let down in a big way by her parents and their tapas pals who seem only to concentrate on trying to clear their own names at the expense of their darling child! She was not only let down by them but by their spokesman CM, by certain areas of the press in this country, who seem more concerned in slamming the PJ's, smearing Murat and unproven abductors'and trying to stop themselves from being sued by the McCanns than looking for the truth behind Madeleine's disappearance.

It is fair to say that some journalists have been trying to get their voice heard on Madeleine's behalf, and we should remember that.

Why are some Editors more concerned with the parents' situation than the young child who has disappeared and is suffering a fate that most of us would not want to contemplate.

Madeleine - we don't know exactly what happened to you, but there are many of us who are trying to find that out and we will continue to do so until we get to the truth! We will do our utmost to get justice for you!

The only consolation in your tragedy is that perhaps many young lives will be saved as a consequence and that parents will be much more vigilent with their children in future.

Our thoughts are with Madeleine and all abused children in this unhappy situation.

ratonthebeam said...

Welcome aboard, Lizzy, glad you found us! Always like to read your input :-)

Let's also not forget another victim - Jenny Murat. This poor old lady in her 70s, has worked all her life, amd raised children as a single parent; she goes off to PDL to spend her twilight years in the sun. And just look what she has had to put up with ever since!

In the first days, she even ran a stall, collecting information to help the Mcs. But she has been repaid by having her son pilloried and broken; she has had to go back to work to support them. Her life has been ruined by reporters; she has even been accused on forums of aiding and abetting.

I remember on the old DX seeing the comment that Jenny Murat used to be a nurse, so obviously she was the one who sedated Madeleine for her son to abduct. And that was one of the kinder allegations!

About an old lady who, by Alsabellas personal account, is well respected and liked around the village and wouldn't harm a fly.

The mcs have a LOT to answer for IMO.

Stella said...

Nancy, Hi

Your last comment says it all. I feel the time has come to see steps taken to ensure that children are never left on their own ever again. If parents who do this know of the consequences i.e. imprisonment and having their children taken into care, as a deterrent, maybe they will never do such a horrendous thing and more children's lives will be saved.

nancy said...

Hi Viv -


I was reading back on last night's posts and I noted your comment about Kate blogging away with her assumed name!!

I wonder though how she would have the time with all her personal appearances and trips to the beauty salons!

I must admit though I quite often thought when on the DX forum, how strange it was that the pack always seemed to come out at the same time and then go off for coffee or tea one at a time!

The ones I remember most are Mandz, Rosiepops, Mark, Jane GT, Old Hippy,Chinadoll, and there was someone else whose name escapes me who really used to slam into people! What about Mexico Pete or whatever? He was a hoot and obviously a male member of the infamous group!

I often wondered what happened to that anti called Duncan who as prolific in his posts about the injustices of it all, but suddenly disappeared to be heard of no more - unless he came back as someone else!!

Rothaymere was a really good poster too - I'm surprised she has not found us and logged on!

I know some of them are on the 3A's so at least they are still 'fighting the good fight!'

We have some really good people on here now and that shows it was a good thing to make it members only - a really good decision.

I am sure those on Sassy's blog are fuming about not being let in! If they hadn't been so grossly insulting all the time they could have made this into an even more interesting debate, but they blew it big time!!


Nancy x

ratonthebeam said...

Viv,
I do not think that Chinadoll is Kate; for the simple reason that I don't believe for one moment that Gerry would permit Kate to mess around in blogs and chatrooms unsupervised.

nancy said...

Rattie -

Good morning - I echo what you say about Mrs Murat! I had no idea she organised a stall to help raise funds to find Maddie! I always felt very sorry for her though having he son pilloried like that without any sort of evidence whatsoever.

That information makes it even worse that the McCanns could turn against her son! Unbelievable hard heartedness, but which we have only come to expect from these two!

I hope Robert Murat will have his arguido status removed soon and that he will achieve success with his libel cases against some of our most unsavoury newspapers - will they every learn I wonder?

nancy said...

Gina -

If you are up and about, I hope you are feeling better now.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a flu bout soon hereabouts because the winds are very cold and I have put the central heating back on. I feel sorry for people coming on holiday and there are many, because it certainly isn't like April in the Costa Blanca this week - more like January!

Nancy x

nancy said...

I'm off for a while now to do some much needed shopping for food and, most importantly, vino tinto!!

See you all later folks!

isis said...

Hi Rat, agree with you there. I see that thread is still going strong on the 3as!! You have ruffled some feathers!!

ratonthebeam said...

Yes Isis, it's up to page 30 now!

For those who don't follow the 3As, I started a thread about the cretin who put what they thought was my name and details on their forum. I asked the question (and it was a genuine question) had anyone else ever have that happen to them.

But what was most illuminating was that this was posted, almost immediately, from someone calling themselves "Probably Not".

and has anyone asked why rat has suddenly turned up here to claim all this? might it not be because if it was pasted on their usual forum everyone would know it was rubbish?

To let you all understand, I have posted very, very little on the 3As so far. Most people there do not know me. ProbablyNot obviously does though, knows the history, has immediately decided that everything I write is rubbish, and that everybody else should think so too, without being given any opportunity to judge for themselves!

Strange, that....

....and sounds awfully like the tactics the Pink One uses, too.

BTW I was not meaning to defect or leave you lot out, it's just that everybody here knows the story so I didn't want to bother subjecting you all to it again :0

And the answer to the question was Yes, other people have experienced the same treatment. But always "antis", oddly enough....

marga said...

Hi everyone!
Viv, excellent post.

For the Portuguese police Madeleine was /is priority.Not the parents or their friends.

I know how some of them involved in the investigation have done everything to get justice and to hinder their return to England.

They have worked hard and many of them are also parents themselves and have suffered the anguish and the frustation for not finding her alive and safe.

They are human beings doing their job the better they can and don't deserve all the criticism put in the Br media throughout the months.

This case has reached a point that is disgusting many people who are capable of seeing through the rubbish and most people don't believe in the innocence of the parents anymore.

I have read today's Pt news and it seems the poilice want to charge the mother or the couple with neglect. Officially, however there is nothing stated but i believe this week will be crucial and perhaps we are going to know sth more on the late developments.


In Isabella's case the father and the mother-in-law were also on a TV program and stated they are innocent. They use the same arguments. She was a beautiful little princess, very sweet, the people who know the couple can say they had only little discussions as everyone, tha God is the real witness, that they haven't never beaten her, etc... The police have done it wrong. Well, are also trying to refuse to accept DNA evidence.

What a sad destiny for so many children..

Stella said...

Rat, hi

I have never been able to use the 3A's site, and was not aware of anything going on over there, but I am not the least bit surprised. The tactics the oracle uses is quite army like. The terror tactics will work against them one day.

marga said...

Rat,

do you know if 2345 is still posting there?

It has so many threads that I get lost to see who posts , etc.

ratonthebeam said...

Yes, marga, she is, but now she thinks that I have been cloned as well. Oh dear.

ratonthebeam said...

BTW the 3As scares me, too, it is just so big.... I have decided just to go to "View Active Topics" and keep an eye on the first few threads. They get updated by people so regularly, that you get to see everything of importance eventually that way. I've never gone beyond page 1 of all the topics. I figured if it's important enough, it will make it's way to the top of page 1 eventually....

Stella said...

The original 2345 scared a lot of people for all the right reasons, I cannot help but think it was another terror tactic to shut her up by ensuring her 2345 account gets banned on all sites by a clone. If I am right she will reappear one day with a new name to tell all........

Niki said...

Stella, 2345 who is posting now on 3A is the very same as the 2345 we know. I do hope she is well, and that Madeleines case will get a closure soon. Above all for Madeleine, the poor soul, but also for "everyone" to "have a break"...

I know that youths get dragged in to games like "warcraft" and can't see the different between fiction and reality. Guess it might accure to grownup's too...

Have a nice day
Niki

Stella said...

Hi Niki

I am pleased to hear that, 2345 was always so pleasant to talk to and she always explained things to me very nicely, I have never seen her get nasty with anyone so could not understand why she left this site.

girlguide said...

In response to Niki's earlier reference to an article about post-natal depression, I have always thought that this was an issue with Kate. It was therefore up to all of her family and friends ,many of them doctors, to recognise it and advise her. This is why they must all bear some of the blame for what happened, most particularly her husband.Hopefully we will all discover thr truth soon

ratonthebeam said...

This was my initial reaction too, GG, especially in light of yesterday's picture of Kate and Mat Oldfield. She seems to be getting more support and comfort from a friend than she ever got from her own husband.

nancy said...

Ratty -

Do you have to register on the 3A's to be able to read the blogs? I went on their website just now and there are a couple of forthright comments - one saying that were giving up administering the blog - do you know what all that is about? I don't want to register on there because Viv's blog is enough for me and there are so many members it's a bit offputting!

I didn't see Big L's name - I know he did blog on there at one time, but I did see a few I recognised from the DE!

marga said...

Thanks everyone for answering me.

I was looking for a new avatar and then I lost internet connection.

I agree. 2345 will find her way to return. At the beginning she was a little suspicious about me when I fist posted in the DX because i told her someting about her name comparing it to Brazialian names that are sometimes funny. You know that in Brazil there are names like hers?
Um (1) dois(2) três (3) de Oliveira(family name) quatro (4)..

Well, I have heard somewhere. perhaps it was Alsabella , that charges for neglect had to be made in six months after it have occured. Haven't you heard that too?

marga said...

Sorry for the typos!!!

isis said...

Nancy, I think you have to register to comment but i think you can browse without registering. If you look at the list of names at the bottom of the page, they are the members on line as you read. Big_l is most probably off line.

marga said...

Girlguide, Hi!

Agree with you concerning her husband. they are bot responsible for their children, not only Kate. As for the rest of the family, well they weren't holidaying with them in PDL.But if they knew she was not feeling good, they should have advised them concerning the kids or they could have stayed by teh family.

marga said...

Isis,

you can read the blog but to poster you have to sign up/register.

The layout seems to me very confusing but it must be a question of time to get accostumed.Rat can confirm this or not. I think one poster begins a thread there and then the other bloggers comment on it. Is that so?
But i think that are other threads that are private to registerd blogs.

ratonthebeam said...

Nancy, anyone can read the forum, but you have to be registered to post. Big L was posting there yesterday.

marga said...

Rat, and How do you know the thread he was posting?

docmac said...

Hello everyone

Well I never. I had a look at the alternative blogs for the first time in quite some time today. I wanted to see what they made of the DM article yesterday. It seems they are still Googling away looking for me too, Rat! It seems I may be an optician of some sort. Never mind, Gerry is still a hard working heart surgeon according to them.

The most interesting part is that I am now also librarising (who posts on here), crusader 8000 (who is this?), Ironside!!!! and of course Southerncross. I hope all of these posters know that I have taken over their bodies, partners, jobs and children (if they have any). Don't mind the 5 incomes to be honest!

marga said...

Doc,
Crusader was a poster from the DX.

Quite a gentleman!

ratonthebeam said...

Marga, he started a thread of his own. There is a column that tells you the author.

marga said...

Bye all!
Have to leave now.
Must do some things so that later I can watch the special program about this case.

Até logo!

isis said...

Doc, as long as you are a red tomorrow night i dont care who anyone thinks you are !!!

ratonthebeam said...

Crusader is great, and Portuguese, if I remember correctly? Actually I would consider that a compliment :-)

I haven't looked at any other blogs in ages either (I have my hands full with Viv's, the 3a's, occasionally Bianca's and UV's). The last time I looked, there was nothing worth reading on the pro blogs anyway. Just the usual rubbish -

Poor, poor McCanns;
How evil the PJ are;
Robert Murat did it;
and Clarence is Christ Almighty himself.

And if it wasn't for this blog, then Supertroll wouldn't even have a blog at all, as there would be nothing to put in it. So I don't even waste any time going there anymore.

marga said...

Thanks, Rat.
I've found it. It's on the second page.
Read it later.

Really off now.

docmac said...

Thanks Marga, don't remember him.

Re 3A, just register as a user. Then go to the control panel to set your preferences. I registered a few days ago using a different name - a very familiar one might I add and no, it's not any of my supposed aliases :-))). In the control panel I elected to stay invisible and not receive PMs or e-mails.

As a member you can use the search facility, where in this instance you would search for Ironside in the name row, then choose all posts, first posts on threads or title pots ie those that he has authored. Simple really.

docmac said...

Hi Isis!

Couldn't get a ticket for tomorrow. I'm a true red red ;-)

docmac said...

Hello Rat

How is your colleague's investigation going, if I may ask? Don't answer if it's at a sensitive stage.

ratonthebeam said...

The local police were debating whether to deal with it themselves, or hand it over to the CPS at the other end, last I heard.

docmac said...

Ag Marga I meant BigL of course, sorry.

docmac said...

Ta Rat

nancy said...

Thanks Rat and Isis -

I'll have a go again later!

As I said though, I only want to read - I don't want to get involved in the posting! I'm fine here!

nancy said...

There seems to be a deafening silence in the media today with regard to this case. All this talk of libel cases is keeping them quiet I think!

I still can't get on Bianca's forum however much I try to Google it! Rat can you confirm the address as beeshive2008.blogspot.com - thanks!

J J said...

http://beeshive2008.blogspot.com/

Sorry to but-in.
I have managed to get into Bianca's forum using the above.

Good luck!

isis said...

Nancy. no problem, lots of interesting reading but take some of it with a pinch of salt!!

librarising said...

So I'm docmac am I? Splendid, that will keep everyone off the scent of my true identity...

I had a look at the Supertroll blog. It is indeed about nothing but this blog, you're right, Rat. Like a kind of parasitic growth (we doctors see them all the time). Nobody really talks to anyone on it much, it's mostly just ST going ito elaborate detail about how pathetic all the posters on this site are etc. Really minute elaborate detail. Supertroll, we're not that important are we? Blogs are pretty superficial unimportant things, but a blog about a blog really is in danger of disappearing into its own cyberspace (as we doctors say).

I thought a bit more about it and about the huge energy that ST expends typing that thing up. What's the motivation? Apparently, to try to rubbish is all so much that we'll stop bothering chatting to one another about our issues with this case (and giving cleaning tips). Why would that be so important to an individual?

I came to the conclusion that the Supertroll blog is likely to be either the effusions of a nutcase, or the product of PR efforts on the part of team McCann. We ought to be aware that whenever a PR effort to shape public opinion is taking place, there will be an internet presence on forums and blogs. PR firms openly advertise this.

Perhaps ST will explain his/her motives to us. No doubt he/she is reading this with the same obsessive attention he/she pays to all out chatter.

hope4truth said...

Hello All

I dont know if the PJ are going to charge the McCanns with neglect a year down the line seems a long time and although I dont think they should be charged with neglect if that is all they did I guess it is important to send the message out that it is wrong.

There was no listening service at PDL MW as the apartments were so sperad out it was not safe (and IMHO it is a bloody stupid way to try and keep an eye on children if they are not crying they assume everything is fine) well If Madeleine was taken they would not have heard her crying and things were certainly not fine. I hope that MW has got it's act together now and have canceled this service in all of it's other centres.

It really needs to be made clear to any other idiot that thinks this is the way to care for children it is not a 3 year old child in an unlocked apartment = danger in fact a 3 year old child in a locked apartment spells out the same thing...

Children firts if you want an evening out hire a sitter or take them with you.

Stella said...

If they were to far away to hear Madeleine crying, then they were to far away to save her from choking.

PJ, get them into court on neglect alone then dig up all the other evidence......

Stella said...

P.S.

That last statement about being to far away applies to the whole group, so charge all of them with neglect..........

isis said...

Stella, each and every one of them that left a child alone that night should be prosecuted under portusuese law.

dolores said...

I recall way back at the beginning,reading,K's mother saying that Madeleine was prone to sleepwalking,if indeed this is true,then leaving the doors unlocked,with a pool nearby was highly irresponsible and thoughtless,as would be her wandering onto a road,as some of the many dangers that could have befallen her.

Stella said...

Isis, hello

I absolutely agree, teach them all how to really love and protect their most precious possessions the hard way.

isis said...

Stella, bet wallets,travellers cheques, passports and by all accounts were in a safe in reception or in the hotel room.3 children in an unlocked appartment... i just dont buy it. Dolores when this case was made public initially that was my first thought, that madeleine would have woken and wandered out in search of her parents, yet this was somthing that they discounted immediately, i wonder why?

isis said...

sorry, typo ment to say by all account watches were in a safe.

nancy said...

JJ -

thanks! It's the same one as I've been using but I'll try again!

Hope -

I agree with Isis and Stella that all those who left their children alone while wining and dining should be charged with neglect if nothing further is found to charge them with after the PJ's investigations are completed.

If this bunch are allowed to get away with wilful neglect leading to the disappearance of a child, then what message does it send out to other parents who perhaps don't have the same measure of responsibility as the rest of us on here. Kate said herself that Madeleine had been crying the night before but they still went out and left the children again. How cruel is that?

However, Viv is right when she says that the PJ's will be looking to solve the crime of exactly what happened to Madeleine and who was involved before they bring the lesser charge of neglect and this will be when they have completed the investigations to their satisfaction.

Let's hope it won't be too long before that time comes, because a charge of neglect still won't tell us what happened to Madeleine that night and the case will unfortunately be in limbo.

dolores said...

Isis,
If her parents discounted this immediately, maybe they knew it was not possible due to being sedated or under restraints or the most feesable they know what really happened to her.No matter what they are neglectful and responsible for her demise caused by their neglect.

dolores said...

Nancy,
Nothing was going to spoil their night out,after all K said'"It was our holiday to"

isis said...

Dolores. Absolutely.

J J said...

Nancy
Bianca suggested that you click on to her avator to get to her site.

This is what I did. I'm not very computer literate, but I just kept clicking on things and eventually got through.

Sorry it's not very technical but it did work eventually.
Good luck

bath theory said...

Just to say Martin Brunt the SKY reporter is in South London not PDL today. So I wonder if he was there over the weekend after all.

marga said...

I've just found a thread in the 3arguidos about Isabella Nardoni.

For anyone interested:

http://www.the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10143

Bianca said...

Hi all,

Couldn't help but cutting and pasting this from the Pro's blog. It is the xenophobic, disgusting Man's Pants (or "Mandz") at her best (or sickening worst - whichever way you look at it). This is her reaction to the recent claim made by "The People" that Kate McCann may be charged with endangerment/abandonment of Madeleine:

=============================================================================

"Hi All,

Pathetic……

How about them looking for Maddie…….? Why Kate? Why the mother? Do “dads” not have the responsibility of their children in Portugal? In my opinion they are absolutely desperado however again everyone can see exactly what they are and in my opinion they are trying to take attention away from themselves however too late guys and never gona work. To me it appears they are throwing their toys out of the pram because their plan has not worked "again". Please however LOOK FOR OUR GIRL……….
Oh and anyone carrying a plastic bag be afraid…. be very afraid…………
Tourist Industry Shove It……

21 April 2008 17:47
============================================================

My favourite lines are "Do “dads” not have the responsibility of their children in Portugal?", "Look for OUR GIRL" and "Tourist Industry Shove It……".

This silly cow is so racist she can hardly breathe! What's more, she has been blithering on about the tourist industry in Portugal for so long now that it's almost a sickness with her. Apparently, she doesn't care about it or its possible loss of reputation over the McCann case. She really wants this known, it seems, and it's almost like she wants to single-handedly bring the Portuguese tourist industry to its knees or something! (PMSL!).

Finally - what does this woman have against double letters? Note the spelling of "gona" for gonna. A bit like her penchant spelling "cuppa" as "cupa", it seems!

Bianca said...

"Look for OUR GIRL naughty Portuguese policemen", says the dribbling, cross-stitching Mandz!

LittleGreyCell said...

Talk about Doctor in the House...oh goodness, I feel a Carry On film coming on (I'll have a ponder on that, Matron).

Rat: I saw Probably Not write that trash on the 3As the other day and tried manfully (well, womanfully) to post a response to her strange musings, but I'm afraid to say I couldn't work out how to post or quote or load up Opus (who, the message told me, was too big! That's what too much herring does for you). So I was with you in spirit (a bottle of gin by that point), if not in the cyberspace next to you.

Oo, Radio 4, 8.00pm this coming Thursday there's a prog called Searching for Madeleine. Just heard a trail for it and it sounds to me like it's not going to be entirely scripted by CM ("...it looks like the Portuguese investigation is coming to a conclusion" is what the man said on my tranny).

marga said...

bath theory;

here is his latest article:
Well, well..we all live in glass houses..

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1313539,00.html

marga said...

Bianca,

actually Potugal and the Portuguese don't need people here to cause trouble the way they did.
Caring parents and and loving people are not afraid of holidaying in a country that welcomes everyone the way we do.

So, what they are saying against Portugal is sth that will not be followed by people in general. Not by other nationalities for sure.That's only an argument that sounds pretty silly and xenophobic and is a last attempt aimed at their cause.

Nothing to worry about.

nancy said...

Isis -

The first thing any parent would think of realising that their child is hyperactive, which is what we have been led to believe Madeleine was, would be to run out to the immediate vicinity to see if she was anywhere in sight. If she was nowhere in sight then you would immediately phone the police; not wait 45 minutes before calling them! This couple and their 'into each other' friends have a lot to answer for and if they are not called upon to do so then there is no justice for Madeleine that's a fact! How fortunate that none of their friends' children went missing too! They must count their blessings every day that their children are safely at home with them! Their shame should be with them for the rest of their lives!

ratonthebeam said...

LGC, the other posters on the 3As (remember, most of whom don't know me) had the situation sussed in about 5 minutes flat!

I hope you had an enjoyable Pesach?

nancy said...

Marga -

Have no fear, not everyone is as ignorant as those who swear they will never visit Portugal again etc. etc, and Portugal will always attract millions of tourists, just like, Spain, Italy and France and many other European countries, because it is a beautiful place to holiday and relax in the sun,with beautiful beaches and fantastic food. In fact, I would go so far as to say that tourism will probably increase because publicity, good or bad, always draws the crowds! The PJ's have worked like trojans to find Madeleine and not only them, but the local people in Praia de Luz who went out of their way to help; not forgetting the local priest who was there to comfort the McCanns in their hour of need! How easily it is for some people to forget the hand that feeds them!

Anyway, to be quite honest, who would want people like those complainants in their country. Let them stay in their own country where there are no crimes, no paedophiles, everything is perfect and idyllic - but only because they are telling themselves that!! I'm sure the PJ's don't give a hoot about what these idiots think or say about them! They have more pressing things on their mind!

dolores said...

Nancy,
I think they can count their blessings it was Portugal they were in when they all ongoingly neglected their children,I beleive every other country in the world would have had the all behind bars immediately.
XX D

ratonthebeam said...

Yeah, considering the millions of Euros of Portuguese taxpayers money that has been wasted on this charade. They sure haven't made any profit out of the T9's brand of "tourism". In fact the Portuguese tourist board would probably pay people like that to stay away!!!

marga said...

Nancy,
you said:
Anyway, to be quite honest, who would want people like those complainants in their country. Let them stay in their own country where there are no crimes, no paedophiles, everything is perfect and idyllic - but only because they are telling themselves that!! I'm sure the PJ's don't give a hoot about what these idiots think or say about them! They have more pressing things on their mind!

Monday, 21 April 2008 19:01:00 o'clock BST

______

How right you are!
The police really do have more things pressing them and are concerned with Madeleine.

dolores said...

Nancy,
Every country in the world is a safe place for children, if you don't go out every night and leave your children alone for hours and leave the in danger.
If you want to neglect your children in this manner don't go, simple as that.

XX D

marga said...

Dolores,
if it was for the PJ they wouldn't have been allowed to leave.
But their connections have helped them.Not to forget the lab in Birmingham...

Wizard said...

Good Evening All,

I've just been reading an article on how to spot a liar.

http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A1f4cfRWoQ ... ALiar.html

It's quite good and very much reminds me of the prime suspects in this case.

nancy said...

Good Evening Wizard -

I'll have to look at that - thanks!

nancy said...

Dolores -

Well said and so true!

If this case makes other parents think twice then maybe it has managed to achieve something positive!

dolores said...

Marga.
I wonder if Social Services are carefully watching all the neglectful parents from that night or only K & G.?
There should have been no interference in a police investigation, how many other police forces would tolerate this, constant smearing against them, plus private investigators?

marga said...

Dolores,
Can you imagine what those working in order to get the truth, knowing they were in the right track and that there was no abduction have felt by that time ? And then seeing all the spin and efforts to discredit their work?
Even all the people that were fooled supporting them?
Poor little girl. This case isn't about her. Now in Brazil Isabella's parents are copying the same script.

marga said...

Read you all later.

Bye

LittleGreyCell said...

Rat,

My Pesach was so enjoyable it just passed me over...

How was yours?

Seeing as I can't eat anything levened for non-religious reasons, I guess that makes me a better Jew now than I ever was before!

Drat.

dolores said...

Marga,
I read about poor Isabella,on the link you gave,what a tragic end for another innocent child,whose life was not valued and treated with respect.The Mccann's and their friends are a bad example in ths world, and I really pray that they pay for it.And that the fear of God will stop others following their behaviour.

XX D

marga said...

nancy said...

If this case makes other parents think twice then maybe it has managed to achieve something positive!

Monday, 21 April 2008 19:20:00 o'clock BST

___________

Nancy,
unfortunately I'm too pessimistic about that. it seems to me that people don't learn from others' mistakes.This world is becoming worse as time goes by. Too many pressure and people aren't strong enough to cope with their problems. Sad to say this, I know..
Don't you see how many cases were there in the news after this particular one have happened?
Many parents continue to put their priorities first.
Definetely off now.

marga said...

nancy said...

If this case makes other parents think twice then maybe it has managed to achieve something positive!

Monday, 21 April 2008 19:20:00 o'clock BST

___________

Nancy,
unfortunately I'm too pessimistic about that. it seems to me that people don't learn from others' mistakes.This world is becoming worse as time goes by. Too many pressure and people aren't strong enough to cope with their problems. Sad to say this, I know..
Don't you see how many cases were there in the news after this particular one have happened?
Many parents continue to put their priorities first.
Definetely off now.

bath theory said...

I left my house to try and get to Martin Blunt but by the time I got to Sydenham High Street I could not find him outside the pub shown on the television. Shame it wasn't a little closer. I saw him when I returned from work and thought why not? Anyway there is always a next time. Maybe I will write directly to him. Given that he must live in fear of the sack if he does not toe a certain line I think he is better than most in his profession. Maybe he would have listened. Anyway must rest now for a while. Sorry guys & girls.

marga said...

Dolores,
I only knew about Isabella at the weekend.A colleague told me about it. She has family and friends there and watches a Brazilian channel in Pt and the case has been covered by different channels. It caused a great impact on people because it is not common to happen such a crime among people of that social status. In favelas violence is there on a daily basis due to drug trafficking and robbery. This case has shocked the entire country and people have reacted as in Huelva. they wanted to do justice by their own hands.
It seems it was premeditated and they are using everything to blame the police ,too.
Well, a crazy world.
P.S. I'm cooking at the same time I'm posting.

Wizard said...

I was reading on 3A’s that a “Portuguese Television Guide” appears to have an interview with Susan Healy who has said “Kate is no longer on anti-depressants and she has gained a little weight”. There is more to this article but before I go on - is this a wind – do any of our Portuguese posters know?

hope4truth said...

Nancy

Hello... Sorry I had to shoot off earlier...

I think all the parents on that holiday need to look long and hard at what a bunch of selfish thoughtless people they are what they did was very wrong and very very stupid.

If Madeleine was taken (and I dont believe she was) then her parents and each of the people there share some part in the fact she was not being protected as they all convinced each other that neglecting the children to go out for a meal was fine they are all in part guilty of not protecting her. If they had decided to go out for the day and put all the children in one car without seatbelts and an accident had happend even one that was not their fault if any of the children were harmed each parent who knew they did not have seatbelts but allowed them to go in the car are responible for what happends.

I believe if she was taken then any prison sentance would do no good what so ever. I dont think any of them would ever be so stupid to leave their children alone again and the guilt they must feel (and for Gerry and Kate) the loss of their child if she was taken must be torture for them) I dont see Prison be of any use it may punish them for leaving her but it cant ever punish them as much as leaving her will...

I dont like them for what they have done and for the spin they have created to protect themselves and for all the people their selfish behaviour has hurt someone wrote about Jenny Murat here earlier and that lady who has lived all her life out of trouble has to spend her twilight years with worry and people pointing their fingers at her through no actions of her own the PJ are being slammed and even as posted here earlier some idiots want Portugal to suffer for the McCanns stupid and selfish behaviour.

If she was abducted it could have happend to her in any country and the police would have investigated in the same way and very sadly she probebly would not be returned no one has the right to take a child but there are 1000s of very sick people out there that would do so if they had the chance to. This is why we protet our children and why laws are in place to say we should not neglect them and put them in danger.

If she was not taken then I could not care what happends to them they have created a monster and they can deal with it.

I think the neglect arrest story is more spin for poor McCanns and nasty PJ the spin on this case speaks volumes most people dont care any more they still worry about Madeleine as we would all love a mirical and for her to turn up alive and well but not many take a lot of notice about what is being said and many know nothing.

I do however believe that Social Services should be looking at every family that was on holiday and each of the parents should be forced to do a parenting class as they do not have a clue if they think leaving children is ok...

I am terribly trusting and usually see the good in nearly everyone and although I would never have defended what they did I would have normaly have had a lot of sympathy for their plight. But from the begining they have behaved in the strangest of ways and to many things to write write have been done by them and their spokespeople that never needed to be said if they are telling the truth.

Sorry for long post xxx

docmac said...

Hi LGC

A little something for Opus here. I think you'll know which one he'll enjoy! There are other nice ones too. Don't miss the Chapman's Peak clip.

Christabel (waves), watch the end of the kitesurfing clip. It was filmed metres away from my front door. Now you know where I am, come and find me. I've been expecting you for weeks now. Bring your own gin.

Wizard said...

Following my 19.55 post - a programme about Madeleine is being aired tonight Portuguese television. ? ?

atardi said...

Good evening everyone,

Hi Dolores, hope everything is ok.

Marga,

I finally had the guts to read that article about Isabella. It made me sick.

Another trial by media.

Even they have proof that the father did it. So sad.

docmac said...

Hi Wizard, Claudia said she'll try to watch the programme at 21.10 and report back on it. It's called " Maddie, Secret without end " I think.

ratonthebeam said...

My Pesach was great, thanks LGC, we went to a Seder on Saturday night and I slept most of Sunday!!! Ate too much, drank too much, good job it's only once a yaer :-)

Wizard said...

Hello DocMac,
I check with Claudia later - thanks for info.

viv said...

Hiya all


Just had a great read of all your posts and welcome back to Lizzy and Hello to G~G.

The story about Kate being charged with negligence was not just in 24 Horas but also The People, one of the worst for printing sickening CM rubbish. I am quite sure he feeds 24 Horas.

Charging her with neglect after all this time just does not make sense and I believe Alsabella or Claudia said there is a 6 month limitation period for this offence. It is just more CM spin.

I had a seriously early start and a very long day, so am going to bed, but think today's posts were really good.

Thanks for all believing I am the true, Viv:-) Unmistakable, but hey just one more time for any who cannot recall me saying this from last Oct on the DE just a little more than once.......

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE!!


Nite Nite all
Luv Viv xxxxxxxx

hope4truth said...

Good Night Real Viv xxx

bath theory said...

Right the kids are asleep. So didn't quite get Mr Blunt this evening but following on about spotting a liar today I did a nice lesson on persuasive writing in Literacy and we talked about bias.

(From BBC Bitesize pages aimed at 7-11yr olds)

What is bias?

Bias means someone is only putting forward one side of an argument. An advert, for example, will only tell you the good things about a product, and may exaggerate those!

Remember, a writer may only be telling you one side of a story and always think about what a writer may not be telling you. And don’t always believe what you read!

The children seemed very good at understanding this. Furthermore , we then discussed the words on reasoned argument...

Reasoned argument: If you are responding to something someone else has said or written, always stick to the subject. Don’t attack someone personally – use reasoned argument to respond to what they have said.

So how come professional people who are highly articulate and quite capable of reasoned argument are not using it over a 3 yr old's disappearance? Instead they are choosing as a tactic to personally attack the Portugese. hmmmmmmm not very hard to work out is it.

bath theory said...

Goodnight Viv

marga said...

Wizard,

I think it is true, burt I do not buy that magazine.

Atardi,
thanks. I know what you mean about the courage we sometimes need to read such cruel news. Her mother is desperate as she had two or three times noticed bruises that Isabella told her had been caused by her two younger brothers when playing together.Now she believes she was afraid of telling him the way she was treated when spending the weekends with her other family.

It's horrible to imagine the psychologigal pressure some children are put under at their age that should be one of innocence and joy.

Now the other little boys. What future will they have? yet again, what a tragic case...

LittleGreyCell said...

Docmac,

Well, you've really put the cat amongst the penguins now with those clips..."OK, Opus, Surrey or Cape Town?" "Erm, let's think about it for a couple of milliseconds..." :)

Gosh, it's so, so beautiful! I used to know a doctor who came from Johannesburg. He worked in A&E in Soweto. Interesting shiftwork. Obviously J'Burg isn't on the coast, but is it still lovely?

LittleGreyCell said...

Rat,

Glad you had a great time! And if nothing else, at least you'll have something to repent for come Yom Kippur...

:)

marga said...

Latest news.

The Pj want to know MC canns and Tapas bank accounts.
The rogattory lettres have asked that, too.

The PJ is STILL waiting for results from the Birmingham laboratory that were sent in August!!!

Wizard said...

Hi Marga thanks for the info. This article also says the pj are suing CM for 2millon Euro. Its quite amazing the irony of it all. CM has successfully silenced media critics in the UK by suing or threatening to sue them. If the pj threaten CM will this shut him up? Or will they have to take him to court?

Where will Clarence get over £1M from thats the question.

Wizard said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bath theory said...

Wizard, looked for the yahoo liar link and could not find anything. So searched around and found an interesting bit on a site which stated....

When you suspect that someone is lying, you will compare their dishonest response to the way they respond when telling the truth.

Hands, head position, voice level, eye positions, shoulders, everything will be a signal when you know what to look for.

You need to make note of the differences in behavior that shows that an internal conflict is happening. When there is a conflict, the brain does not respond normally. It creates signals that make it impossible for the person to keep the same mannerisms, voice tone , head position, all in a congruent state as the lie is told.

Typical body language that reveals an internal conflict:

Hands over mouth
Hand to nose
Hand to ear
Hands or fingers moving, wringing, tapping
Head tilt to side
Head turned away
Body moving backwards
Blink rate increases
Pupils contract
Eyes go down to left or right
Eyelids stay closed during the answer
Voice tone rises
Clearing the throat

Well I guess it is the point that you have to compare their answers whilst speaking the truth to those when they are being dishonest.

Wizard said...

Marga, I wonder why they want T9's bank accounts?

dolores said...

LGC,
Does Opus enjoy Yom Kippur :)

XX D

hope4truth said...

Hello LGC

How are you feeling been laughing at your condition making you a better Jew they do say God moves in mysterious ways xxx

Wizard said...

Hi Bath theory,

Re: the link - try
http://www.thepalmbeachtimes.com/pages.HowToSpotALiar.html

It’s a similar account to the one you posted but slightly longer.

marga said...

Wizard,

well haven't they said "we have a pact and it is no ones business" or sth like that?

ratonthebeam said...

Ach YK is not until September, plenty of time to redeem myself :-(

hope4truth said...

Bath T

Just found this on Sky News (and take it this is what MB was doing near you when you tried to catch him???

Ex-Detective Held Over Axe Murder

Martin Brunt
Crime correspondent
Updated:20:14, Monday April 21, 2008

Five men - including a former Scotland Yard detective - have been arrested over the axe murder of a private investigator in a pub car park 21 years ago.
A sixth man - a serving officer - is being questioned over leaking information.

Daniel Morgan: found dead in 1987One of those held on the suspicion of the murder of Daniel Morgan is private investigator Jonathan Rees, 53, who was Mr Morgan's business partner in Southern Investigations.

Another is former Scotland Yard detective sergeant Sid Fillery, 61, who was part of the original investigation into the murder and later took the dead man's job

Oh look at our perfect police force they would never ever do anything corupt would they???

I do hope none of them are investigating or have investigated any one found guilty as it will soon be written that they were set up???

Wizard said...

This has now got me thinking Marga.

I’m off to watch some TV but will be back later catch you all then.

atardi said...

Hi Marga,

I’m having some internet problems. Grrrr.

About Isabella.
I keep asking why? What could she have done that her own father was willing to kill her.

And what made me so sad and mad was that she was thrown out of a window.
As if she was garbage. I really had to cry.

I hope Isabella and the ones who really loved her don’t have to wait long before
Justice will be done for her.

God bless this little girl.

atardi said...

Hi Hope4truth,

How was your day at work?

hope4truth said...

Hi Atardi

Isabella's Murder is so very sad she was a beautiful little girl how could anyone do that to their child?

The world is a very very sad place....

hope4truth said...

Atardi

LOL we must have crossed posts...

I had a good day stayed for 9 hours today and have still not done half the things I wanted to...

How was your day??? xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

Evening Dolores,

Well, let's just say Opus preferes Yom Herring...

;)

docmac said...

LGC, sorry for missing your post. Damn power supply gave up the ghost and had to install a new one.

It is lovely, yes. Did you watch ALL the clips? I did not mean to impose that on Opus. Johannesburg is vibrant, brash, over the top. It is also featureless from an aesthetic point of view. I see Joburg only when I am obliged to.

Your doctor friend must have worked at Baragwanath? It's a great place for foreign physicians and surgeons to go to hone their skills, as there is so much pathology to see. It's an enormous hospital.

I love CT. Laid back, stunning natural beauty, wide open spaces, small town feel. The people even talk - and type! - more slowly down here. Better than cannabis.

atardi said...

hope4truth,

Really boring. Had a meeting from 9.00 to 16.00. And had to deal with an angry parent.

So I was really tired when I got home.

And having internet problems!

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Hope,

I'm feeling decidedly over Passover! The last time I was in a synagogue was last year for my newphew's barmitzvah. The service almost lasted a year, too...

How are you? Having post-holiday pangs?

I wrote a long post this morning in answer to your first post, but then my access to Google went down and it wouldn't let me get back to my post to re-send it. Then I had to go out. I think this must have been God moving in a mysterious way, too...(not only Clarence Mitchell, then).

X

LittleGreyCell said...

Rat,

I like a woman who's dedicated...

:)

Bianca said...

Message to me tonight from Mum21, after I called Sass a "highway whore" after she published, out of sheer spite, part of my IP address and what operating system I use on the Pro's blog:

"When you attack a Pro..you do not attack one person...you attack a force of people." - [mum21]

I'm not sure what software Sass has that can trace people's IP's but she traced and published mine. She also told them all what Windows I use. I have already started looking into how she can be held accountable for this.

It seems these people feel it's their right to violate others privacy (and break the law) and then attack you if you protest! They are like hive creatures that all work together. I will not let Sass get away with this though.

nancy said...

Hope -

I really enjoy reading your intelligent and heartfelt posts.

I admit that I would feel the same as you if the McCanns and their friends had just left their children on one occasion and had been out of their mind with sorrow at having done so, then one might forgive their crass stupidity and thoughtlessness,and say yes, they will suffer for the rest of their lives poor things, but this wasn't only on one occasion was it. This was on a few occasions and they even left them when they knew Madeleine and her little brother had been crying alone with her siblings. Since then they have courted the spotlight and are now seen more as VIP's than neglectful parents. A very lucrative move on their part!

I personally think serving a sentence for an act which caused the disappearance of their child would at the end of the day allow them to feel they had paid for their crime which is what prison is all about. If we go down the road of saying well they will suffer for the rest of their lives for their crime, then this would encourage others to do the same and feel they could get away with it unfortunately.

We either have laws or we don't and if one has to pay the price for child neglect, (i.e. Karen Matthews and no doubt countless others), then the McCanns and their pals should also be prepared to pay the price for their actions. The silence from the tapas pals has been deafening - they know they have overstepped the line of caring parents and doctors too.

The libellous remarks about the PJ's and Robert Murat by CM, no doubt instigated by the McCanns and the tapas friends,is unforgivable and is obviously only being put into the public domain to cover up their own shortcomings in my opinion.

Let's hope it won't be too long before we find out the real truth of this heartbreaking affair.
Of course the biggest problem the PJ's have is that they have been unable to find Madeleine alive, or find her body, so that is a huge stumbling block for them. It could be we will never find out the whole truth.

hope4truth said...

LGC

Are you trying to tell me CM is not God????

I have never been to a Synagogue but have been to two Catholic wedding services that seemed to go on for days then again my own wedding went on a bit as I chose 3 hyms and the Vicar gave us all a sermon on the Lovemaking that my Husband and I would do???? I only got married in Church as it was the same one my parents had married in 25 years earlier and the same Vicar married them (he was getting on a bit).... So maybe all religious venues like to drag it out???

I am very pleased to be back in my own bed but did miss being with everyone today. My Husband liked it and now thinks he is Ray Mears and has camping plans for us in May (1 night at a time I can cope with just)...

Just watching Paul Merton in China he has just eaten Donkey Penis snake and bugs makes me glad to be a veggie....

Are you still feeling well??? xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

No worries, Doc. I'm in and out myself this evening.

Yes, he was at Baragwanath. He was born in Jo'Burg, moved over to the UK years ago, became a rheumatologist and now teaches.

Such tales he told about Baragwanath...he'd patch someone up in A&E, send them on their way and then half an hour later they'd be back with another wound. He also regaled me with some extremely horrific stories of the place where he lived. Not for this blog, however.

But I can see why you love Cape Town! I'm off to somewhere almost as beautiful in the next few years - though a little closer to the UK!

nancy said...

Goodnight everyone - got all that off my chest and off to watch a comedy!!

See you all tomorrow - God Bless!



Nancy x

hope4truth said...

Atardi

Angry Parents oh that is not good no wonder you are tiered....

Are your family all well??? xxx

ratonthebeam said...

Latest breaking news, from reliable sources on the 3As, reckon that the T9s bank accounts are being examined particularly from the day before Madeleine went missing. In a separate development, the accounts of the HTFM site in Ireland are under investigation from the Garda.

I will post more news as I get it. Woo hoo!!!

hope4truth said...

Nancy

My head agrees with your last post but my heart is to damn soft and although they have shown no remorse I imagine they are upset behind closed doors...

Have a nice evening xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

Hope,

I went to one church wedding where the choice of hymns was a little, er, interesting...For Those in Peril on the Sea being one of them. Hmm.

What was the sermon on lovemaking like???!

I'd have to pass on the donkey penis - doubt it's kosher (see? I can be Jewish when I want to be.. it's a woman's prerogative).

I'm very well, thanks. Actually better than I have been for years! I think God must truly move in mysterious ways!

P.S. I think telling Clarence he's not God would be a bit of a waste of time... :)

Gina said...

Evening all just popped on to say hi, I have got a virus and feel bad today. Just wanted to say Viv, I am glad to see today's article focused on Madeleine, and reminding us of all the innocent people who have become involved in this.

hope4truth said...

Nancy

I have just read my last post and it seems really sharp and I did not mean for it to sound that way at all you are right but I am soft and am still delusional at times about how everyone is honest and nice...

Sorry really did not want it to sound the way it was written (I would say it better out loud) xxx

LittleGreyCell said...

Night Nancy!

X

LittleGreyCell said...

Rat,

Wow!

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Gina,

Sorry to hear you're not well.

Viv's gone to bed early - she had a very long day.

Wishing you better...

:) :>

atardi said...

Hope4truth,

I can deal very good with angry parents. But I had to learn it.

Always say calm and let them have their say ;).

Familly is doing well.

Rat,

Tha's great news!

Cláudia said...

Hi, guys.
Just to let you know that here was not anything particularly new in the Madeleine special tonight.
They confirmed the old lady hearing Madeleine crying. The strange fact that suspects in this case try to put conditions on the police to cooperate when they are the ones who have a daughter missing. Paulo Sargento, a forensicg psychologist, made a 3D program with which he reconstructed the timelines. As we all have heard before, no window of opportunity for an abduction to occur without anyone (except JT) seeing it. As for JT - she is not credible at all. Her decription of the abductor was initially extremely vague. As time went by (unlike normal people) her memory improved and the 'abductor' got a face and other details which makes her unreliable. It was also stated that from the Tapas Bar they hadn't enough vision and could not control who entered or left the apartment. All the spin by CM and the media stories were also mentioned. Paulo Sargento thinks that the key period is between 6 o'clock and 8h30. It was also mentioned that this case had a lot of political interference when it shouldn't have, because it is a police matter. Paulo Sargento thinks there will be no end to this. He believes it is not possible.

docmac said...

LGC

If you ever need an orthopod you know where to go! Good luck to you with your move when it happens. Have you checked the local availability of herring?

I did not notice previously that you are in Surrey. My middle son spent quite some time there not too long ago. He attended Chinthurst School in Tadworth. We went over to visit and stayed with friends in Epsom and Reigate. Had a wonderful time. My wife's brother was working at Gatwick so we spent a few days down in Crawley too.

Cláudia said...

Get well soon, Gina.

isis said...

Thanks for the update Claudia.

bath theory said...

Bianca, I am sorry about you having your privacy invaded. But , it shows you how a bully works doesn't it. Those who need to intimidate and to use fear to try and get there own way are hiding things. Whether it be in a small way or whether it be to conceal a very dark secret.

Keep the faith and as we all say JUSTICE FOR MADDIE

docmac said...

Ola Claudia

Thank you for the update. Do you agree with Sargento?

Rat, whoo hoo indeed! Is the article on the front page at 3a?

isis said...

Rat, if the Gardaí are involved,they are very good at investigating fraud, several tribunals worth of fraud in fact !!

Gina said...

LGC/Claudia, thanks. I have a head full of ballbearings rattling around and blurd vision. You know the same sort of systems when I have drunk too much rioja

hope4truth said...

LGC

I just posted a long post that vanished...

The Surmon went something like Hope and Hubby have come here today to show their love and union in front of god and the congrigation and one of the ways they will show their love is in the lovemaking that will consumate their union. Lovemaking is an important part of a union and will one day bring children and keep their love as they look to each other...

He went on and on my face was a picture and at the reception everyone was laughing about it and my cousin said for one horrible moment he thought we were going to consumate it then and there LOL

It seemed like he talked for ages and my Parents confirmed later he had not mentioned Love Making during their ceromony 25 years before I guess that is progress. I hope he is not marrying people 16 years on goodness knows what he would think is acceptable now???

Is your Asthma still improving??? xxx

atardi said...

Hi Claudia,

Does Paulo Sargento think it's impossible only because of political interferences?

hope4truth said...

Gina Get well soon xxx

hope4truth said...

Atardi

Good advice let them have their say I did a course on listening skills and it is amazing how much diffrence it has made in meetings is amazing...

Glad your family is well xxx

ratonthebeam said...

It's on the front page of the 3As under "TV1 Portugal - Now". Some very telling body language from the people involved in it too, apparently!

Most bizarre synagogue service - Paris. The Kiddush was vodka and pickles!!!

Bianca is having her privacy invaded? Is it her round now? Bummer. Take no notice.

bath theory said...

Claudia , the key times in the programme you mentioned were 6.00pm to 8.30pm. In other words back to time that includes the bath and you know I strongly believe the bath to play a crucial role in all this. I would like to know more as to whether the frozen shower curtain that was allegedly found is thought to have come from their apartment.

Ecolab said...

Dear Viv et All.

Every morning/evening I read Viv`s blog and each and every new comment.
This morning Viv wrote ”LET US REMEMBER MADELEINE IS THE VICTIM” I read that and I did feel saddness.

You all know, I`m neither a fast nor a correct writer, so the chance of me being clooned is not that big!.....but I`m a fast reader and I do understand and speek your lanquage well.

I were almost choking in my bread and suffocating in my coffie this morning. Not about Viv`s main line, but in what she wrote as the first thing this morning.

Viv- I have been cutting and pasting a little, but forgive me. I think, some of the stuff you wrote this morning, is very very important:

-------------------------------------------
”HI All I dont know whether you have seen this (FROM Joana Morais) but it confirms the statement released of Kate's was one given to their detectives and is not part of the official police file. Therefore deliberately leaked as a means of attacking the PJ so that they can avoid the reconstruction they were asked to take part in during the week the PJ attended here to question the TAPAS

PJ of Portimão takes legal action against McCann’s spokesman

Controversy: Kate's statement to detectives

The declarations of Kate McCann remembering a conversation with her daughter Maddie, on the day in which she disappeared, on the fact that in the previous night Kate left the girl crying in the bedroom are not in the official process secured by the Judiciary Police, established the CM. They were reproduced by the Spanish TV channel Telecinco, the journalist Nacho Abad says to have proofs that they are true - but in fact, they are accounts given by Kate to private detectives.

The process continues in secrecy of justice, but, 'on the day that the process is opened to the public, it will be easy to prove that those declarations are not there ', said a source close to the investigations. Therefore, this leak of information could never have appeared from inside the Judiciary Police.

Carlos Anjos believes that the controversy created around Kate's declarations, with accusations to the PJ for the eventual leak of information which damages the couple credibility, 'is nothing more than a stratagem in order that they do not have to collaborate with the Portuguese justice'. In question there is a re-enactment of the crime, requested by the PJ but that, according to the couple’s spokesman, will only happen if they stop being arguidos.
-----------------------------
Well, thees few lines this morning told me a lot of things and this have been on my mind the intire day.

It tells me:

1) The McCanns do NOT have access to the JP files agains them. They want to, but they do`nt. The Mccanns are even not allowed to see a copy of the files wrote back in sept., when they were made arguidos. It pleases me.

2) Back in Sept. they were NOT wittnesses at any point. Wittnesses are allowed to see a copy of the files and do sign by their signature. The McCanns are suspects and do have much less rights. This pleases me, too.

3) The McCanns do no longer remember, what they actually did tell the JP. This fact gives the McCanns a pain in the ass. Is there a mix up in the lies, Kate and Gerry?....A, what a pity that you are mixed up in your own spin – this pleases me very, very much endeed. Backlash on you.

4) The JP are 100% sure, that Kate did not tell them the subby story, and therefore they do not ofcourse have a file of the story. The leak cannot come from them. To bad about your poor memory, Kate!

5) The sup snuffle story was NON Existing in the very beginning. Not important to tell the PJ. Now the story is suddenly important. Why is that Kate? Are you in lack of public support?

6) The Mccanns must have leeked the sub story for various reason. I can only guess. You (K & G) are some very strange people. I would really love to perform a mental examination on you. That report would nominate me to The Nobel Prize.

Cláudia said...

Hi, guys. You're all welcome.
Gina, have you gone to the doctor? get that checked.

Paulo Sargento did not elaborate on the reasons why he feels there will be no ending to this. But for people who have heard him speak before, yes, I think he believes there is too much interference so it won't happen. He also believes that the key to the secret is in that group. As most of us believe.

Doc, my friend, I believe justice may not be done in the way many of us expect. But I believe it will be done. And I think that there are people who will make sure the world knows about it. In fact, I do not think so. I know so.

bath theory said...

Ecolab you made me nod my head and you made me smile, a pleasant way to finish the day, thanks.

Cláudia said...

Bath Theory, to be honest that shower curtain thing has been a lot more talked about in the UK than here in Portugal. In fact, I don't even know if there was ever a confirmation regarding that.

Gina said...

Hi Claudia, yes I managed to drag myself to the Docs this morning, he said many people have it. Bloody holiday makers bringing all their bugs over I guess, or maybe it is a computer virus I have caught for being on here too long. Been trying to read back, but brain not absorbing much, so off to bed now. Good night all, take care

hope4truth said...

Night Gina sleep well xxx

Cláudia said...

Gina, do not complain about the holiday makers bringing their viruses. Have you forgotten the terrible things holiday makers can bring besides bugs? Last May we had some here in Portugal and you know how that ended up!
Rest well, Gina!
xxxx

hope4truth said...

Claudia

Lol xxx

Cláudia said...

Hope, ;-)
xxxx

isis said...

This is from a Portuguese poster from the Sky boards about the programme that was on tonight, apolgies if already said.

"Now about the programm:

Nothing new except
1. uk lab have more samples conclusions to send but the same were in PT lab and the results are now with PJ
2. abdcution was impossible - I will explain why later
3. PJ want to do a reconst of the time between 18h00m and 20h30m only
4. reception from OC has a CCTV and during this time a car from OC to PDL beach will take only 1 minute
5. first photo of the abducter was almost nothing, after 8 months she remember more. Impossible, works the other way
6. PT PM adimited that sopke with GBrown about Maddie case and now regreats
7. Clarence Mitchel do what he wants with Uk media
8. Uk police is making the rules now, and they also want the reconst..
9. Uk police send to UK lab more samples of DNa"
Claudia,is this more or less the gist of the program?

Cláudia said...

Isis, I do not confirm some of the things. I didn't get that thing abou our PM saying he regrets anything (but the poster could have talked to Sócrates, of course. But he is not really the kind of guy who regrets doing stuff. Ask any Portuguese citizen! lolol). Did not get that about the UK plice caling the shots now. And I'm not sure about more DNA samples. The rest I also mentioned.

leigh3 said...

Evening All!

Viv: yes, your headline story is a timely reminder that this is all about Madeleine, not any adult.

One child is every child, in the minds of some; not all, of course. The world is a very vain, superficial place, imo. Children and animals suffer the most for that kind of adult self-indulgence. Adults who think this world is for their pleasure, and leisure. Fortunately, a significant number of adults remember their duty of care for the weak.

Meanwhile: DOLORES, ATARDI,MARGA,ISIS, WIZARD, BATH THEORY: Last year on the DE, a poster said that the Maddie Fund in Ireland had been 'frozen'; no public donations would be passed to the McCanns Fund.

The Irish media and Gardai have followed this case closely, giving fair, balanced and accurate reports, without fear or favour, right from the outset.

In that sense, they are the silent witness; the honest witness, in my opinion.

Marga: requesting bank account details involves legal problems (Viv can explain the detail, I'm sure), however it is standard procedure in serious crimes.

Unfortunately for those who collude to deceive, there are many ways of obtaining financial information, with or without their consent.

On the DE last year, the poster 'doctordoom' raised the issue of money running out for 'Team McCann' in Spring 2008, and their alternative plans to boost the 'Fund' or their bank balances. I agreed with him.

Sadly, con merchants are predictable, and the police know that. Follow the money. It's the quickest route to unmasking con artists.

Sorry, Viv. This is about Madeleine Beth McCann, dead aged 3, the beloved sister of twins, aged 2, but Justice for them may come via a very nasty, plain, ignoble route.

Money, and material wealth. How many adults have sought those and sacrificed priceless, defenceless children and animals? The innocents of this world serving the cynics of this world.

Tender hearts won't resolve the problem of neglected or abused children. Tender hearts can support tough minds who pursue truth, whatever it takes, 'whoever it hurts', perhaps.

Life's a team effort, perhaps. We all need each other, and children need adults, not kiddults, imo.

isis said...

Thanks claudia. Night all.

hope4truth said...

Leigh

Hello hope you are ok???

Excelent post.

Does anyone know what happend to Dr Doom I liked his posts???

xxx

isis said...

Night Leigh, i remember reading that in one of our irish papers last year and am trawling through some reports to try and find it. Will post if i do.

leigh3 said...

Isis and Claudia.

It may be worth remembering that there is only one national charity run by the UK Police. It is called 'Child Victims of Crime'.

Anyone who ever thought that Madeleine Beth McCann would go 'missing', and her 'disappearance' could be easily manipulated for personal or political reasons is 100% barking mad.

No surrender. The PJ, assisted by the British Police, Interpol, and child protection agencies will pursue the truth, however long it takes, 'whoever it hurts'. Whoever, whatever, however long it takes.

2345: WHERE ARE YOU?

ratonthebeam said...

Yeah, I liked Doctor Doom, and BWhiskey too.

Ecolab said...

Almost midnight. See you tomorrow. Night all.

hope4truth said...

Hello Rat

He was allways jetting off somewhere (well he said he was and it sounded fun so I will believe him) I wonder if he was a Journalist like he said he was???

If you are reading Dr D I dont care who you were I enjoyed your posts....

xxx

leigh3 said...

Hi Hope.
Am find, thank you for asking, and trust you and yours are well too.

Doctordoom - what a load of fun, eh? Smart man, well connected; a journalist, revealing things that The Pink One wishes to conceal from the kind public.

I suspect that doctordoom knows this is a case where less is more at this stage. Best to say very little or nothing.

The wheels of justice are turning, Hope. Sometimes, silence is golden ;-)

Anyhoooo! That doesn't stop some from exchanging views on the world weird web, does it?

Sorry to hear about Bianca of Oz earlier on this forum. Apparently, she's the latest victim of cyber bullying.

Tsk. Anyone messes with my PC, and they will catch a tiger by the tail! I'm a Luddite. My associates are not :-)
Nice to see you, Hope. You never give up.
xo
leigh

hope4truth said...

Leigh

This World weired web and blogging lark have opened my mind and I dont like all I have seen.

You cant give in to Bullies so if anything I have stayed far longer than I would have done. Then of course there is you lot I enjoy chatting to you all shame it is about something so very sad.

Yes silence is golden was one of my Mum's favorite sayings I do hope Dr D posts again when he can.

I allways get lost on the 3As but must give it another go soon as I liked reading Ironside as well...

Anyhow I am off to bed see you all tomorrow xxx

leigh3 said...

Isis.
Erin go braugh. The Irish media and Gardai have watched this case like wise owls, and others have watched their reports, and movements, for guidance, for a moral compass.

leigh3 said...

Dear Hope,

Do give 3As another try. It's a refuge for honest inquiry among the public, and that includes journalists, politicians, police etc.

Give it another try. Maybe you'll just read, and pass what you know among the people you know.

Life's a team effort, I think.
Lovely to see you persevere, as always.
x
leigh

leigh3 said...

Ecolab.

I hope your 'dream job' is working out well. They're lucky to have you, judging by your sharp observations, expressed on blogs like this.

The truth is hard sometimes, isn't it? Still, I'd rather hear the hard fact than the comfortable lie.
See you next time.
leigh

leigh3 said...

Ratonthebeam.
Don't know if you are still here, but yes, I agree: doctordoom and BWhiskey were fun to read, and deadly serious at the same time.

ratonthebeam said...

Just posted by a Portuguese person on the 3As and Sky.

Abduction impossible because:
between the time checkings, tome for leaving OC of the staff, return from other turist, the abducter only had 3 minutes alone to went in the apart.., took Maddie, came out and desapear on the air

She then goes on to say :

I am trying to say another thing but sky is not allowing

OC reception had a CCTV and not one car crossed the front road between 20h30m amd 22h00m

So, you only had the back road, but no one saw a car there


That makes the time consistent with the "mysterious person who looked like Robert Murat" loitering about the stairwell. And, co-incidentally, when David Payne was meant to be checking on the kids.

hope4truth said...

Leigh

I will give it another go night xxx

leigh3 said...

Ah, yes when the mysterious Mr D Payne was meant to be checking on the children. How interesting. Has he corrected the 'inconsistencies' in his original statement?

There was no 'baby listening service' at the resort. Only the Paynes had a 'baby listening device'.

There is CCTV at the resort, and there is something much more useful: Mark Warner staff.

Thus far, McCann statements have libelled the good name of Mark Warner, and its staff. Do we really think that libel will go unpunished?

Mark Warner and its staff are witnesses, complying with due process of law.

There will come a time when these witnesses employed by Mark Warner are released from their obligation to remain silent, and they will serve their employers' right to defend their reputation.

Libel court is one destination for those who lied over the body of one English girl, Madeleine Beth McCann, dead aged 3, the beloved sister of twins, aged 2.

librarising said...

Bianca and all - about IP addresses, snooping and threats.

I saw Bianca's post earlier but haven't been able to post till now.

I run a website for my business, unconnected to this issue, and so I know that anyone who has a site they can post code on can easily subscribe to one of many free web services which will record all visits to your site and report information like IP addresses, browser used, etc. Useful to know who's been looking at your site, what search terms or links they used etc.

None of this information can be used to trace you by anyone except maybe I guess Interpol or the like.

Bianca you could do the same on your blog and throw a scare into anyone who visited it. But as I say the information is useless to individuals - they're just trying to put the frighteners on you with easily available info, so ignore them. They want to shut you up because that's their agenda; very likely they're paid to do it. So keep posting; you're doing nothing wrong in commenting on the possible guilt of police suspects.

This is the service I use - very good, and reliable, and lots of useful info on the free service.

http://www.statcounter.com/

librarising said...

- just got home and now off to bed - night Leigh, Hope & Rat. Wonder if I'll still be Docmac in the morning.

leigh3 said...

Hi Doctor Librarising.

Unfortunately, doc, I've just read the last prescription, and need longer to read the longer prescription.

Wot? Anyhooo! Great to see you, doc Libra. Will read your longer prescription now.

Pink gloves definitely off ;-) Justice for Madeleine and every child, however long it takes.

leigh3 said...

OK, doctor Librarising.

You are not a doctor, based on your long post to Bianca. You're just an old fashioned Knight, and there's no cure for that!
Have a great week.
leigh

lizzy said...

Hi Claudia,
I hope you don't mind me asking but your remarks earlier intrigued me, when you said you don't think justice will be done in the way people think it will be, but it will be done. What did you mean.? Did you mean the Mccanns will not be charged with any offense.? That something else will happen? Lizzy

LittleGreyCell said...

Yes, I'll be in Surrey for a little while yet, but thanks for your kind wishes on my future relocation. Opus'll be alright if he can develop a taste for red mullet... :)

I'm glad you enjoyed Surrey, but the vibe doesn't really suit my bohemian arty lefty sensibilities. Gatwick's OK because you can make a fast getaway!

Cláudia said...

Hi, Lizzy.
As you can imagine, I'm not sure about what's going to happen. But I think there is the possibility they be charged. I've been saying for a long time that I think this has been out of the PJ hands for a long time and that probably they didn't expect that the PJ would still be persuing this. But that does not mean justice won't be done. Life has a funny way of making justice. And so does the universe. And yes, I think other things will happen. People who have things to hide can never be free, Lizzy. And there are people who will never shut up. There are people who are willing to risk a lot so the world knows the truth.

LittleGreyCell said...

Docmac,

Oy, enough already! It didn't post the first part of my missive...last post was meant for you.

AAAAArrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!! Computer b*ll*cks all bl**dy night.

This is google moving in mysterious ways!

Ecolab said...

leigh3

I had a talk to this inmate in prison. He had killed his body(a friend he had known from childhood). They were having a boozing binge and went into a disagreement. This guy jumped on his friend and kept on jumping and on and on in order to make his friend understand the issue.

I asked him, why he kept on jumping at his dead pal? (The killing was "an overkill" No intact bones left behind in the body!)
He answered me(and he was a very intelligent person): "That he thought his body could stand the moisture! What a pussy he turned out to be - he could not!"

So much for the truth - the guy was not insane and he got a mild sentence, but for sure a psycopat.

The real truth in this story is, that there were not that much drinking involved, but the guy succeded in convincing the court the opposite!

I remember my thought were, that I rather in this particular case rather have had a comfortable lie, than the fact. The fact was, that this guy was almost as bad as dr. Lecter. He revealed himself to me.

Yes, the truth is hard sometimes and it is sometimes very difficult to cope with, when it turnes out to be pure evil and egoisme!

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