28 Apr 2008

KATE AND GERRY CONTRADICT EACH OTHER - PANORAMA NOVEMBER 2007

Just before we apparently see Kate McCann shedding real tears for herself as the PJ prepare to charge her, let us recall how many tears she was shedding for Madeleine, back in PDL ..Gerry too. Does this look like a devastated couple? Where are the twins?

Thanks for the Pic Swedishmum, I have a feeling I will be using this, time and again!
Viv x


















A 120 metre walk, via a circuitous route around the pool. To check on all the sleeping children required a meandering detour that almost doubled the distance between the bar and the McCanns' apartment. From the tapas bar, only the very top of the balcony of the McCanns' ground floor apartment 70 metres away across the pool is visible. A large whitewashed wall and thick bushes obscure the view from the poolside tables. So, the McCanns could not even see their apartment, let alone see or hear their little children, from where they sat consuming vast quantities of alcohol. It was nothing like being in the back garden was it? As Kate herself says in a statement she gave to private detectives, the night before, little Madeleine and Shaun were crying their eyes up for a mum (and dad too, he is just as bad), who sat drinking and just did not care. It meant one of the party would have to walk from the bar around the pool, and out through the security gate of the Ocean Club, a distance of some 60 metres.
Once out of the complex, they would have turned left on to Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins, a public road, and go a further 60 metres up the hill, through a three-foot high gate which cannot be locked, up a flight of steps and then in through rear patio doors, which were not apparently locked.
The apartment is not inside the Mark Warner complex itself but sits on the corner of two roads. On the corner of two roads, and right next a large pool, but Kate McCanns says "why did I think that was safe". Well yes Kate, why?? The front door of the apartment is on the other side of the building from the tapas bar, on Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva. The rear patio doors through which the adults would enter to check on the sleeping children faces on to a walkway, again open to the public.
With two entrances - neither of which can be seen from the restaurant where the McCanns were dining on 3 May - the apartment is impossible to monitor from the tapas bar. Now they want us to feel sorry for them and understand they just made a mistake in leaving their children exposed to this night after night. I dont understand and what is more, I never will..Kate says in Panorama we all knew what we had to do..apparently meaning this so called system of regular checks on the children. I do not think that is what she was talking about at all..


I have been looking at the Panorama transcript again. Bearing in mind this was a programme put out by the McCanns, months later, where they had chance to perfectly synchronise their stories there is one thing that has always seriously baffled me, the lie that Kate McCann lives and breathes. That some predator broke into that apartment and " stole Madeleine out of her bed".

If you just look at the two extracts below Gerry says after his check he went back out through the unlocked patio doors, but Kate says just the opposite. Even when they are putting on a show to defend themselves on the most fundamental issue they just do not agree. This is the nub of this case isnt it, there was no break in, there was no predator. There were no damaged shutters or jemmied window. Mark Williams Thomas, an ex police constable and media spokesman now claims in The Times some opportunistic predator just took Madeleine, trouble is according to Kate he broke in and "they" had been lurking and spying on them, not that they would have seen of course. Thomas changes his tune almost as often as I change pants and is certainly no "criminologist" as he claims. Gerry knows what he told his relatives cannot be right so he changed his story. How could anyone take this couple and their contradictory lies, right from the off, seriously or indeed Justine McGuiness or Mark Williams Thomas? Do reports in the media just before the "anniversary" from such people change the basic facts and that even Kate and Gerry cannot agree because they know their story is like a sieve? Well no, of course they dont!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm
KATE: It's not about us, you know, we were bobbing back and forwards several times and I wanted to see the kids so.. you know, it's not about us. You know, I think that the problem is it's a predator basically who's been watching us, which gives you the shivers anyway, and broken into the apartment and taken Madeleine out of her bed.

Gerry McCann says he went at just after 9 to check on his children. He says that their bedroom door was more open than usual so he goes in. Gerry McCann has told Panorama he remembers looking down at Madeleine. He spent a moment thinking how beautiful she looked and how lucky he was. He says this was the last time he saw his daughter. He closes the bedroom door and leaves through these unlocked patio doors.

556 comments:

1 – 200 of 556   Newer›   Newest»
SwedishMum said...

Good morning Viv and all!

I very seldom look in at 3A's site (way too many topics for me) but did this morning and then saw this picture.
One thing is for sure, it's an attractive couple walking down the street.

Gina said...

Good Morning Swedish and all

Like you, I do not look at the 3A's for the same reason, but thank you for the picture it is good to see how well they coped.

Viv - "he leaves through these unlocked patio door", the same ones that a child who is known to sleep walk could also have walked through. Did they forget that danger too??

SwedishMum said...

Gina,

When I was a few years older than Madeleine I had a friend who sleep walked and her parents always were incredibly thorough when they locked up in the evenings - no way they would have left a door unlocked (but then again - they would neither have left their kids all alone)

SwedishMum said...

Btw Gina,

That picture on 3A is beautiful, isn't it?

Gina said...

Swedish I agree the picture is beautiful and if we did not know better we would never have been able to presume when it was taken

SwedishMum said...

Gina,

I was actually wondering when it was taken - there is no hint on 3A and I haven't been able to find it on The Sun. But, to be honest, that might have something to do with the fact that I haven't tried that hard.

Gina said...

Swedish did you see the McCanns on Sky last night. I saw a trailer saying the McCanns think their daughter is alive, but having watched the 15 min loop 3 times I didn't see the actual report. I suppose (if you know your child was abducted) you live in hope, but they seem to come up with these things at stragetic times IMO

Gina said...

Well Swedish, it has to have been taken sometime while they were in PDL so the actual date is irrelevant, still very soon after M went missing and "normal" parents would be in a state of devastation I would have thought. I don't think people in the same circumstances would pull themselves together for the cameras. Maybe doing this was ANOTHER mistake they made.

SwedishMum said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SwedishMum said...

Nope Gina,

We can't see Sky. But there is an article here.

Di said...

Good Morning Gina/Swedishmum

So, Gerry is now saying he left through the unlocked patio door. Was it not Gerry who first stated that the door was locked and the window had been jemmied.

Gina said...

Thanks Swedish, just read the article. I suppose anybody involved with finding missing children naturally encourage the parents not to give up hope, what else can they do. I note Gerry said they are working away behind the scenes, well I sincerely hope after the 1st Anniversary, that is exactly what will happen. It will all go behind the scenes and the press stop running and running this story and leave the McCanns to do what they want, and the same for the PJ

SwedishMum said...

You could just as well have written "another MISTAKE they made" :-)

Seriously though, the reason I wonder about the time is that I can see that you really have to continue "living" even when the circumstances are horrible. And they have two small children to think of and therefore have to in some way "be happy" at times (the siblings can't live in an environment of CONSTANT grief - it wouldn't be healthy for them).

Gina said...

Di to be honest I do not know who said what anymore. Everything seems to get contridicted along the way somewhere and I do not think it is now possible to know what the true facts are

SwedishMum said...

Di,

I think it was his sister Philomena(?) who claimed that he had said so.

Gina,

And - as you always say - a lot of people will make a lot of money (books etc). The one person left out is Madeleine - everybody's talking about her but very few seem to really care about her.

Gina said...

I agree with you Swedish Mum re putting a brave face on it for the twins sake but so soon after one of your children went missing I would have thought that almost impossible. Bearing in mind they were trying also at the same time to run a campaign and speak with the police etc etc. I would have thought the best thing they could have done was to have had the twins taken out of there at the outset. I am sure a family member could have taken them somewhere and given them a great time. They must have been left with someone when they went to Rome, USA, Brussels etc. so there would have been nothing wrong with them shielding their kids from the media at this difficult time IMO

Di said...

Sadly Gina I am not sure we will ever know the true facts.

If their arguido status is lifted and Goncalo Amaral releases his book, supposedly telling the truth. There will be another media circus with smears and counter-smears flying in every direction. This case could run for years yet.

Gina said...

Di I fear you are right. I suppose it will be up to the public then to decide by either buying or not buying the books, and using their off button on their remotes to put an end to it. As we have all said the only one not to benefit from any of this is Madeleine, and the stories we read at the moment are only about those who may or maynot be involved. It is so so sad

SwedishMum said...

Agreed Gina,

I also find it hard to think in terms of "happy faces" so soon after her disappearance - especially since she was (and for that matter is) still missing. They couldn't possibly know what kind of hell she's in. And their "happy faces" don't seem forced in any way.

Di said...

Swedishmum

Yes you are right it was Philomena who stated Gerry had said that. In fact, everything she said on camera has been altered in some way.

Di said...

Posted on 3As by Ferret


Sorry if you have already seen this



http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1314229,00.html

Cláudia said...

Hello, guys!Good morning.
How devasted they look in that photo. Poor Madeleine.

For those of you who aren't aware, I've created a blog where people can give a message of support to the PJ.

http://proud-of-the-pj.blogspot.com/

It's a lovely day here! :-)

Gina said...

Perhaps Aunty phi thought assumed the door was locked and even she could not believe they were daft enough to leave it unlocked. Even if there were no kids inside, who leaves the door unlocked, someone could have broken in and stole their mobiles as they did not take them out with them apparently.

Right my coffee break is over, and I am doing what I said I would not do, keep going over this and not resolving anything, so I am off now. I sincerely hope those who have the powers to do something get on with it and do it soon, whatever it is.

Di said...

So we have another description of bundleman, this time he has a ponytail.

SwedishMum said...

Hi Claudia,
lovely weather here too!

Bye Gina,
xx (just a minor detail, you forgot that they left their watches in the apartment as well :-))

SwedishMum said...

Di,

if he's Madeleine's abductor, I think we can be fairly certain that Madeleine is no longer with us (which most of us don't think anyway, sorry, it came out more casual than I meant it to) since he's obviously out "searching" for a new girl.

Cláudia said...

Hi, SM! :-))))

Gina said...

Swedish, Seems they left everything of value in the unlocked apartment then doesn't it

nancy said...

Good morning Viv - and everyone!

Thanks for the logical article about the McCann's discrepancies on Panorama which confirms their story means that there was no way a predator came through the window, because he would obviously have tried a door to get in first!

They are obviously lying and will be found to be eventually - liars can never keep up their deceptions without tripping over!

Swedish Mum -

Thanks for that photo and by the clothes they are wearing it is taken just before the one Viv showed yesterday at the interview with the press - they were obviously looking forward to their celebrity interview!

A couple grieving - not in a million years!

It makes me think again that unless they are a coldhearted cruel couple and they couldn't care less that their daughter had been taken - they know she is safe somewhere!! There is something highly unhealthy and mysterious going on with this couple and their tapas friend and maybe someone else we don't know about!

SwedishMum said...

Sure does Gina. I think we can assume they left passports etc there too - but probably in a safe.

SwedishMum said...

Nancy,

This theory of Madeleine being safe somewhere, I've seen it mentioned but never managed to get the drift. Could you possibly give me a short briefing?
(I know it's asking a lot so if you do it - thanks!!!)

Gina said...

I just have to say this before I go. As you know I am still undecided as to who did what, but no matter what the answer I still cannot see how parents can hold themselves together and look the way they did, if their child had just been abducted or if they were involved in someway themselves. It must have a devastating effect on you no matter which scenario

docmac said...

Bom dia!

Claudia, voce tem o correia :-)

SM, has that picture got you off your fence now? I am so far from the fence I can hardly make it out with a telescope.

Cláudia said...

Docmac, querido amigo, bom dia! :-)

I'll ckeck it! :-)

SwedishMum said...

Hi Doc,

I know you want me off that fence and one thing is sure - that picture doesn't help keeping me on it. But, like I've said before, I don't think I'll fall off until I see some hard evidence (which will probably be never by the looks of things).
However, like I've also said before, I don't understand Kate and Gerry McCann and I wonder if I ever will.

Cláudia said...

Doc, read and answered! :-)

Stella said...

On GMTV this morning, the idiotic Mark Williams Thomas who is an ex police constable and media spokesman, stated that in his opinion Madeleine woke up and wandered out from the rear patio doors and bumped into an abductor just before going into the Ocean Club reception area. He also went on to say that another child will disappear in that area of Portugal this year which will prove there is a child abductor in the area??

Is this guy for real, it is no wonder he is no longer in the Police force....

Mark William Thomas

You seriously want us all to believe in the short distance between the gate at apartment 5a and Ocean Club reception, which is approximately 20-30 adult walking spaces, an abductor was standing there just waiting to swipe a stray child??

Mark Williams Thomas, you are a total disgrace. I hope someone in Portugal takes action against you for claiming that another child will be abducted soon.

He went on to say, from the evidence that he has seen ??? or should we say Mark, all the evidence that you have not seen, allows you to present yet another episode of Jackanory and in the process tell tens of thousands of people it is not safe to take their children to Portugal? I really hope someone decides to take action against you ...

docmac said...

SM

I don't want you to do anything but follow your own nose, despite the pros alleging that I am actually the one in charge here and casting a spell on all of you :-(. If you are not sure, then that's perfectly OK by all of us here.

Speaking of pros, there is no new article yet today. There were so many KG articles yesterday I was quite dizzy, so there is no lack of material. Maybe they have migrated to their new 'secret' hideout then.

SwedishMum said...

Doc,
the thought of you casting a spell on us is rather humourous actually (and rather rude towards Viv as well).
You migration theory may be right - however, if the hideout is secret they won't be able to influence others.

SwedishMum said...

God (that's Doc),

I just read my last post and noticed that it might be misunderstood, so to clarify:
I didn't mean that you are rude ...

Cláudia said...

Swedish Mum, if there is a secret hideout the world at large says Thank you! lololol

Di said...

Stella

The McCann team and their cronies are milking it for all it is worth in the run up to the Panorama programme.

It is quite worrying that he says another child will disappear quite soon. How can he make wild statements like that.

SwedishMum said...

Claudia,

I guess you're thrilled right now :-)

docmac said...

Ja Claudia

They can light their candles there. What's that about anyway? I am not religious or anywhere close to that, but I always thought that the lighting of candles to mark an event is usually to express mourning.

Stella said...

Di

Exactly. How could he say such a thing, was it just to try and justify Madeleine's disappearance, if so, IMO he will soon be walking on very hot coals.

Cláudia said...

SM, thrilled is a bit too much. I just think the world in genereal will appreciate it. :-)

Docmac, that is why they are lighting candles. It's for her soul. They know that Madeleine is no longer with us.

dolores said...

Goodmorning all,
This is helpful from maccannfiles,
The problem of Mark William Thomas's theories


*
Problems with this theory:
1) The apartment was locked, as both Kate and Gerry told all their closest family and friends in the immediate hours after Madeleine was reported missing. The 'open' patio doors story only appeared after the 'jemmied' shutter story had been discredited,
2) There was a child safety guard at the top of the steps (since removed). How did Madeleine climb over this? If she had managed to open it, why have the McCanns not made great play of this in support of their 'abductor' theory?
3) Why was the window/shutter wide open if an 'abductor' just had to pick Madeleine up off the street?
4) It is surely beyond belief that an 'opportunistic' paedophile should just happen to be walking down the street in Praia da Luz at the exact moment Madeleine supposedly let herself out of the back gate.
5) According to the McCanns, Madeleine was 'abducted' whilst Gerry was on the street talking to Mr Wilkins and whilst Jane Tanner was returning to her apartment. Mr Williams-Thomas' theory would therefore imply that the McCanns are lying about the events of that night. Otherwise Madeleine would have been seen walking out of the back gate by Gerry, Mr Wilkins and Jane Tanner.
6) Surely a 3-year old, waking to find her parents gone, would scream and cry, not calmly look around the apartment before proceeding in an orderly fashion outside, down the steps and out through the gate. As Mr Williams-Thomas said, in a previous Times article: "Children at that age can be very demanding and difficult".
7) It was not a case that the CCTV camera in the supermarket was not working. The system in the supermarket merely relayed pictures from the aisles to a TV screen for the benefit of the cashiers - it did not have any recording equipment attached.
8) The question is asked: 'what evidence do they have against Mr and Mrs McCann?' Obviously, that remains a judicial secret but it is worth remembering that the British government would not have approved the re-interview the Tapas Seven without being convinced that there was not only evidence against the McCanns but that it was damming.
9) The PJ have given absolutely no indication that the case is about to be closed. Quite the opposite, they have expressed their satisfaction that the process is continuing towards a conclusion.
10) Why is there no mention of the scent found by the cadaver dog?

Di said...

Stella

Some people just don't think before they speak. I think his comments could be very damageing to the Portuguese tourist industry.

Have to go know will look in later.

Di said...

Stella

Typo....meant now.

Delores

Just caught your article.

All very good points..

Cláudia said...

Dolores, the Sir is not exactly bright. I think all UK citizens should be happy that he is no longer on duty! :-)

Stella said...

Dolores

Thank you for that. If you think about it if a frightened child who has just discovered she is in a house all alone and is forced to go outside and look for Mummy and Daddy they would be walking at a running pace, they would not walk at a snails pace, so measuring the distance between the gate and reception not in distance but in time, a 3 year old running that distance would take less than 20-30 seconds, which is an impossible window of opportunity .....

SwedishMum said...

Dolores/Di,

Especially point 6 is very good since Madeleine apparently was really upset the night before - should that same girl just calmly walk out and look for mum and dad when she once again woke up alone (and by that I mean with no adults present)?

SwedishMum said...

I'm off now,

Have a nice day all!

dolores said...

Hi,all

The biggest indication is the presence of the cadaver dogs,if you notice, anyone speaking on the Mc's behalf always leave their findings out,conveniently.
I remember when their findings were publicised,The UK police and FSS said the PJ were moving in the right direction.

Cláudia said...

Have a great day, SM.
See you later!

Cláudia said...

Dolores, I call it an inconvenient truth...

marga said...

Morning!

I've just read the blog supporting the PJ.
Cláudia, congratulations.

I'm also going to advertise it by email.

dolores said...

Claudia,
The inconvenient truth is not going away,even if they don't like to be reminded of it.

XX D

marga said...

Is there anything(important) new, today?

Cláudia said...

Hello, Marga! Thank you. For the benefit of the PJ. No, i don't think there's anything new and important today! :-)

Dolores, you're right. No, it definately won't. Those damn dogs! ;-)

isis said...

Morning all, no real news except that in light of this new abduction attempt in portugal ms tanner is going to have to revise her alresdy three time revised version of the abductor and add gold rings and a scraggly pony tail to bundleman, but who knows he may have had a makeover courtesy of metodo 3 ! The mind boggles, in a country the size of portugal is every abduction attempt going to be linked to madeleine.

marga said...

Isis,

what new abduction attempt?

marga said...

Cláudia,

check your mail, please!

dolores said...

Isis,
I am very suspicous about the comment from MWT that another 'abduction was going to happen.It's a bizzare comment to make IMO

isis said...

Marga,http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1314229,00.html

dolores said...

Another reminder from the DM.


In a separate media report, the Daily Mail said blood found in the McCanns' holiday apartment and rental car had been conclusively linked to Madeleine.

Citing the Portuguese newspaper, Correio da Manha, it said British forensic tests had proved microscopic traces of blood found behind a sofa in the apartment were from the missing child.

The report also said body fluids found in her parents' Renault, rented 25 days after Madeleine disappeared, were also definitely from Madeleine and could not have come from her two-year-twin siblings Sean and Amelie.

The McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell rejected the report.

"It is ridiculous to suggest that Madeleine's blood was in the hire car, because she was never in it. It was hired over 20 days after she went missing which means it was impossible for her to ever have been in it," he said, according to the Daily Mail.

"Kate and Gerry were in no way involved in her death. Nor were they involved in disposing of her body. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous."

Portuguese detectives have in the past alleged Madeleine's parents may have hidden their daughter's body and faked an abduction after the toddler accidently died in their care.

isis said...

Dolores, the man contradicts himself so many times, he is bizzare.He has no credibility imo. He also said that madeleine may have wandered off and been snatched from the street, despite the gate being at the top of the stairs to 5b.

Cláudia said...

I just did, Marga.

isis said...

funnily enough a portuguese poster on the 3as who live about 3 1/2 km from where this alleged incident took place says there is no mention of it in the local news.

Gina said...

Isis if you remember the same thing happened here in Spain near me. Claims that someone tried to take a child while the mum was pegging out the washing was reported in the UK papers but not in our local one

Joe said...

Can anybody believe the absolute rubbish that The sun,The Mail, Sky news and several other of the media outlets are spouting?

One year on and all that has happened there does not appear to be one hint of suspicion against the McCanns from the media, not even a glimmer of doubt. The Sun even doing a 3 day series. The mind boggles. No matter what the McCanns do .... refuse to answer questions, go back to PDL and all the other inconsistencies the Press see nothing wrong. It is truly unbelievable.

isis said...

Gina, makes you wonder doesnt it ?

isis said...

Joe, apparently on leaving portugal one of the conditions the mc canns left under was that they would return within 5 days if summonsed, i believe the term used in relation to the reconstruction was that they were "invited" to take part in it. Puts in perspective the hiring of those extradition lawyers when the arrived back in the uk.

Gina said...

Isis, even if this is true it looks more likely that this is a different type of incident. By that I mean targetting older girls.

dolores said...

Isis,
It's just another distraction,to take you away from the real story.
How many times has this happened,when the PJ get to close for comfort.

Joe said...

Hi Isis,

Imagine if the Blogs did not exist? We would all be believing what the papers and Tv say. It is the press who are out of touch IMO in this modern age and at times more accurate news is to be found on the blogs than the papers.

isis said...

Gina, Dolores,too many distractions and blurring the lines, too much spin and contradictions. Gina unfortunatly paedophiles tend to stay within their age preference, disgusting scum that they are.

Gina said...

Joe I am sorry but I cannot totally agree with you regards more accurate news found in blog, because we are not privy to anything first hand no more than the papers are. However what we do do is question what is written and do not take it all as gospel

isis said...

Joe, yeaterdays independant article from Carol Hunt was good,the primetime documentry that rte made in october ,i think, was also very balanced and had an interview with clarence that was just so trite!!

Gina said...

Absolutely right Isis re the paedo's, but it appears no matter what their preference all the portuguese ones look the same according the the sketches :-)

Joe said...

Hi Gina,

The Blogs have to be taken with a pinch of salt as they are opinion not always balanced or even correct,but in contrast to the Media at the minute they are just as accurate or inaccurate at times. The media have done absolutely nothing to look objectively into this case. If one interested in this case were to rely totally on the Press then one would be badly misinformed, is probably what I am trying to say ( badly alas) and at least the Blogs may help at times to clarify matters.

Joe said...

Isis,

I had a read of the Indo piece and it is balanced and questioning more than can be said for the tabloids and is good to see.

isis said...

Gina, i know if it wasnt just so sad it would be ludicrous.Thing about these people is they blend in perfectly thus making them so lethal, the certainly do not climb out windows with sleeping children when the front doo is accessible and loaf around the streets of pdl with a child in their arms .

Gina said...

I agree Joe, and as you say some opinions are not balanced. I think it is sad that the blogs are either pro or anti and neither side will accept anything the other side say. Both sides make some valid points. Still nothing is going to change that now, let us just hope the truth eventually outs. This is not about two teams (pros/anti's) trying to be right, it is about Madeleine and what truely happened to her. Personally I could not careless if my views are wrong, they are only views, it is the truth that matters.

Second coffee over with, off again to do what I have to do. xx

Gina said...

Yes they do Isis, JT said so .-)

isis said...

Gina, o yes i forgot that !!! well it must be true so !! Off to clean my hovel now.

Gina said...

Cleaning Tips for Isis

If it is windy open the windows and watch the dust blow away

nancy said...

Swedish Mum -

Sorry I'm late in replying to your post but I went out and only just got back.

It is not a new theory (Madeleine being held somewhere safe with her parents' knowledge), but as I said before how could two supposedly loving parents look so unhassled knowing their child was abducted and could be with a paedophile.

The only alternative is that she had an accident,i.e. was mortally wounded somehow, or as Viv believes, was sedated and overdosed. Even then would the parents be able to look so happy a short time afterwards and be so cool ever since?

I suggested it could have been a well thought out scam to make more money than they could ever think of earning, bearing in mind that Gerry made this all go worldwide immediately Madeleine went missing. Just how did they know Madeleine would not show up in a few days for instance, perhaps thinking she had wandered off somewhere and been picked up for safety? And, more importantly, why did they not look for her themselves - jogging and playing tennis instead of leaving no stone unturned?

The only thing that makes this theory implausible is the fact that the cadaver dogs found evidence of death in the apartment and the other forensic evidence in the car.

So it's probably a blind alley, but a theory worth putting forward nonetheless!

Nx

nancy said...

Gina -

If you are there,did you see my apology yesterday for inferring you were on the shelf? so sorry about that - I mean't on the fence of course!! Me and my other half really had a laugh at your reply!

I hope your friend's treatment went well at the Benidorm clinic by the way!

nancy said...

Gina - re your post to Joe.

I think we would love to read some pro points so we could have a reasonable debate, but unfortunately the only ones who seem to come on here are those who want to put us all in a loony bin!

nancy said...

I'd love to hear what you all have to say on the theory of K&G knowing where Madeleine is and that she is safe and well somewhere, and that it is either a scam for world wide fame and fortune, or perhaps Kate felt she couldn't cope with Madeleine any more!

Gina said...

Hi Nancy, phone just went so I came back and saw your post. Yes I did see your apology that was not necessary at all, I laughed about it myself when I read what you said. Personally I do not care whether cyber people think I am on the shelf, the fence, the toilet or the moon. As long as I do not loose the plot and forget who I am and what I stand for is all that matters.

Friend was delayed coming out of hospital but is doing ok. The hospital treatment is first class, but it is a pity the food may kill her:-)

Joe said...

Nancy,

It would indeed be great if the Pros would debate and at least we could all learn and be prepared to accept the others opinion if our own was shown to be wrong etc. I and many others are prepared to be wrong but it it does not appear to be the case with the Pros, the words fanatical and indoctrinated come to mind.

dolores said...

Nancy,
The problem is the Mc worshippers,don't know how to debate,they bang on about an abduction and I remember from DX days, when anyone asked how it was possible they refused to comment.
Their agenda,has always been and is, is in name calling and personal insults and threats and racial remarks.

XX D

Gina said...

Nancy just saw your other post re the pros. The reason it will never work now is because people have all formed opinions on other people on all blogs (often wrongly) taken a dislike to them and they are going to disagree with that person even if they actually deep down agree, if that makes sense

Joe said...

Before I depart for a while, I ask the question. Are the media/press not concerned at the amount of manipulation that we appear to be witnessing, bundleman has made another appearance and will strike again in about 18 months according to Mark Williams Thomas.The abductor story put back in again and given credence by a bufoon.


Can the stupid media/press not smell a rat or are we the public just being suckered?

nancy said...

Gina -

Yes - I think it all stemmed from the DX days - I know I got reported a couple of times, both as Wooram and Nancy (and got banned in the process) because I happened to say what I thought! You have seen my blogs now this past year and I think you will see that I am never hostile or rude to people. How can you possibly debate with people who won't listen to the other person's point of view?

nancy said...

Joe -

I think we've all been saying this for a long time now - just why is the media so McCann obsessed and never question any discrepancies in their stories. What are they afraid of?

Gina said...

Nancy I guess the reason is nobody actually like to be wrong but clearly some of us are whether we like it or not.

Zodiac said...

As usual Sky News and British press printing rubbish that only the gullible will believe. That abductor photo fit shown in the Sky News article is pathetic. Lots more kak to follow in the run up to the Mac poopaganda show on 30/04/08 and Anniversary on 3/5/08.

The pic above shows how clearly the apt was in relation to the Tapas bar. What a disgrace all of those ignorant, selfish people are, IMHO. Even the ones with the baby monitor, how would that have protected their children from abduction or danger in general. The grandmother is a disgrace also, IMHO, she sat there will her ghrandchildren only had a baby monitor as a baby sitter.

nancy said...

Dolores -

You are so right about the pros and the abduction theory. There are none so blind.....

Neither the pros or the McCanns and tapas friends have ever given any feasible reply as to how this abduction was carried out (apart from Jane T and we can take what she says with a pinch of salt) in the time scale allowed, that's if they were checking as often as they said, but I suppose that's debateable! Perhaps they never checked all night - we only have their word for it, and not forgetting the nights' previously they were even farther away getting 'into each other'!

ratonthebeam said...

Is Docmac around? I wanted him to see this, posted by someone on the 3As. I would very much like his opinion!

I have read a number of newspaper articles from last year and seen a BBC news broadcast which reported that Madeleine had suffered a broken neck. I have seen reports where blood spray associated with a certain kind of neck injury has been found on a wall and a curtain. I discussed this with a family friend who is a GP in a busy practise in Edinburgh. Pathology was part of his medical training and he worked as a Pathologist before he began working as a GP twenty-five years ago. He has provided interesting contributions before (See “April Carnage In Rothley. Kate’s Body Count ‘unreasonably high’ says GP” thread on MF).

click here for picture

A child falling over is very unlikely to break their neck. Bump their head certainly. But a broken neck? No. A child shaken by an angry parent will not sustain a broken neck. Internal bruising, detached retinas, brain damage - yes. But a broken neck? No. A slap or a punch wont do it. And there's no accompanying blood spray either. So what kind of injury is being referred to?

For the PJ to particularly focus on a broken neck and a spray of blood means they are looking at something very specific. We tend to think of a broken neck as a fracturing or snapping of the cervical vertebrae of the spinal column. However, there is another bone in the neck, which my GP friend and I would like to draw to your attention to.



The hyoid bone is a U shaped bone that supports the tongue’s root and is in turn supported by the muscles of the neck. It is the only bone in the body that is not connected to another bone. Because of its unique position, it is extremely difficult to break. However, when it is broken it almost always indicates manual strangulation. The breaking of the hyoid bone will be accompanied by compression damage to the cartilage (Adam’s Apple) that protects the windpipe (trachea). There would be a blood spray associated with this kind of injury. As the victim struggles to breathe, a froth of saliva and blood will be coughed and sprayed out. There will be bruising on the neck. The usual manner in which this type of strangulation takes place is from the front (facing victim) with the fingers around the back of the neck and the thumbs forcing into the Adams Apple. Once the hyoid bone is snapped and the cartilage which protects the windpipe crushed, the windpipe collapses. Death.

This kind of injury would be impossible to disguise as an accident. Manual strangulation is murder. The the reason for Madeleine’s complete disappearance might be to do with necessity, with her body having this type of injury writ upon it, the signature of murder.

docmac said...

Hi Rat!

I have previously posted exactly the same information, so, I agree with that poster 100%.

librarising said...

joe and nancy -

I think the media just want McCann stories that will (a) sell papers like they do, and (b) not get them sued. Clarence gives them plenty of those, so they toe the line for him.

Martin Brunt's Life of Crime blog on the Brussels trip demonstrated this nicely - a bit p'd off that the ITV documentary team were getting exclusive access to the golden twosome. Funny that Sky went a bit anti for a story or two after that...

McCann stories sell papers, pro or anti doesn't matter.

Now, what were we saying about the truth...?

Gina said...

Doc/Rat, I posted earlier re the photo of the McCanns that I could not see how anybody could look like that so soon after their child had been abducted or had an accident, now murder!!! blimey this is totally beyond me. I obviously have no understanding of behaviour in trauma situations

ratonthebeam said...

Wow, that is really something to think about. I will have to go away and get my head round this.

That picture of the pair of them without a care in the world, is pretty mind-blowing too. :(

librarising said...

Rat, doc, gina

I find it hard to imagine the murder scenario (but then murder is hard to imagine).

'Theories' like this need to be built on a foundation of fact, in this case the blood spray story. When the theory is put forward we need to look at the provenance of the 'fact' that it's founded on; too often in these discussions that part is missed out. I know we know very little for sure here, but what is the basis for the blood spray story?

Photos and the expressions/emotions they seem to convey are another issue. fleeting expressions do pass across people's faces - sometimes they betray hidden but real emotions; sometimes they mislead. At times of loss and grief I would not like to swear that you would never have been able to find a sunny smile passing over my face at some momentarily pleasing or amusing thing. Especially if you were waiting with a camera for just such an opportunity. I'm not quick to build theories on photographs either.

Not meaning to prick balloons here. Just being a bit Swedish as it were... (I do respect the cautious approach Gina and Swedish Mum take).

Stella said...

Just out of interest, if someone was not breathing and you believed their airways were blocked through lets say sick, in the absence of any proper medical instruments would a Doctor improvise by putting the handle of a piece of cutlery down someones throat to clear it?

In doing something like this, could this cause damage to the back of the throat?

Not being a medical person, this is probably a silly question, but what do doctors do in situations like this without eqipment?

docmac said...

Hi Gina

Just call me librarising (hello me) ;-). Or Crusader_8000, Southerncross, notdoc, docrot, dickrot or any of my many other names :-))) How many happy smily photos of the Mcs have you come across that were taken AFTER they were made arguidos? I have believed it was murder for some time now. Don't mention it too much now as I don't want to be responsible for the exacerbation of anyone's blood pressure problems.

docmac said...

Stella,

Cutlery? Noooo! Nor anything else. If you can't see a foreign body do NOT go and look for one.

Latest recommendations from AMA are that if someone is not breathing and the reason is unclear CPR is the appropriate response.

librarising said...

Hi doc, nice to be you.

librarising said...

"How many happy smily photos of the Mcs have you come across that were taken AFTER they were made arguidos?"

Fair enough doc.

Gina said...

Hi doccrosslibradickrot8000

Well whatever they were on to beable to smile (even occasionally) at such a traumatic time, I want some.

Off now catch you all later x

docmac said...

Crikey, I'm talking to myself now. Hi librarising, nice to see you.

Stella said...

Doc

Thanks for that, I did try to find an alternative to what looks like a deliberate act, but it's not looking good is it?

ratonthebeam said...

As you know Doc, that daft shower couldn't spot a multiple ID if it jumped up and bit them on the ar*e! :-) :-) :-)

docmac said...

Stella, nope it has never looked good.

Rat ;-)))

southerncross said...

Good afternoon everyone

It was quite an interesting read on the 3A's this weekend. Trolls galore!

I wonder if it had anything to do with certain details re HTFM members? And their association with other blogs?

Docmac, I am flattered to be regarded as one of your alteregos.Just a shame my poor English let's you down sometimes(waves to ST). Dissociative Identity Disorder and all that :)

To all of you here, have a lovely afternoon

docmac said...

Christ, I'm seeing triple now, lol!
Middag liefling. I always call myself that :-)

ratonthebeam said...

Awwwww!!!!!!

Anybody know of a Rhodes3 from the Daily Mirror forum? She has been getting discussed quite a bit on the 3As and sounds awfully familiar!!!

southerncross said...

Lol, yes we cannot leave one of the voices out there in the cold now can we? Goeiemiddag doc :)

I think we can expect a tremendous amount of spin this week, not forgetting the ITV program on Wednesday.

ratonthebeam said...

Breaking news from Sky - looks like M3 have been busy again!

What's that funny noise???!!! Oh yeah, I know that sound, it's the bottom of a barrel being scraped somewhere.......

dolores said...

Docmac,
What do you attribute their happiness to considering they said the paedophile and abductor had taken Madeleine.
My opinion is the relief that PJ beleived them in the beginning and that was their biggest hurdle to get over,secondly the amount of money flowing in.
My own opinion for this very well planned disappearence,is premeditation.
I would love to be proved wrong.

XX D

southerncross said...

Hi ROTB

I am sure Rhodes3 might be posting there, (under different names at least). Did you see the regular names featuring on certain threads? Was quite enlightening

SwedishMum said...

Doc/Doc/Doc,

you really mustn't confuse us all like that. I'm quite sure all of us enjoy your presence here. But three of you. At the same time. Makes me start writing like JaneGT.

Though I doubt you would ever "be a bit Swedish" so no, you're probably not Libra.

Libra,
I agree with you that it is possible to smile in hours of grief. When my father died a few years ago I was surprised that I actually could laugh at the dinner we had after the funeral. Short moments of laughter followed by moments of tears - but the laughter was there (and to be honest, that's how my father would have wanted it).

ratonthebeam said...

Oh, yes!

docmac said...

Hi Dolores

That they had successfully sent the GNR and PJ on a wild goose chase is precisely why I feel they looked alternately smug and happy. The early signs of 'we got away with it', later amended to 'find the body and prove that we killed her'.

Sorry for late reply. I'm busy with a few things here and looking in sporadically.

ratonthebeam said...

Oh Swedish, I don't know about that, you should see the picture of himself he sent me :-) :-) :-)

docmac said...

Swedish, you can not possibly fake this!


JANEGT said...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHFGKGJGJGGJGJJJGJGJGJGJGJGEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAG

i had not realise i WAS NAMED AS CENTRE MAIN MIDDE ROW AS 'JANEGT' AS A *QUEEN* HA HA HA HA HA A HA H HAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhh

ONLY ONE THING THAT CREW EVER GOT RIGHT HA HA my blue blood.

that's nor mark, by the way, that's my current bidie in......ask Rat she knows what that means.

we 'thank you' for your promotion. ha ha ha not ever laughed with you --- usually AT you --- but tonight you managed the impossible, and you AMUSED ME. well done. creeps and creepeses. Made my night.

ps Morticia is rat..........on t scream. scccchhhhhhhhdon't tell anyone. I don't want sued. I am dwn to my last £244,555,555555,556. ad infinitum pounds. Anyone want to buy Northern Rock? docrock bank for the insane? sounds good to me? NO?

Ok going to Fangtiques Roadshow now or if not, cheap as microchips ratfest.....any more bids? going, going............gaaarrrggghhhhh

QIII

and all who sail in her

or, Jane GT whichever. don't really care any more. after all, we ar 'all anona' here. That makes a realy good ierestng bog, 234,445 osts, all by anon.

and...the wnner s.....ANO.....

clap clap crap

no

PROVE IT'S YOU....

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

can't ;o))))

25 April 2008 23:10

SwedishMum said...

Rat,

I wish I could :-)

SwedishMum said...

No Doc, I can't

but you have to give me credit for trying though ...

docmac said...

Hey Rat

What is wrong with my mugshot?

nancy said...

Swedish Mum -

But being able to smile when it's your three year old daughter being abducted by a paedophile, which is what they thought at the time, and still think, is completely different from a parent dying, however much you loved them. If it were my daughter I would never be able to smile again!

SwedishMum said...

Actually Doc,

I hadn't seen that, where's it from?

SwedishMum said...

Nancy,

I absolutely agree with you, 100%. I just got to think of it earlier and as usual I write what I think without too much consideration how it may look to others.
Thanks for your answer (12:37), I see where you're coming from but I can't accept that any parents would do anything like that. But then again, parents have done worse things and seemed completely innocent to the surrounding world.

ratonthebeam said...

Doc, it wasn't the mug end I was looking at! :-)

WTF was all that stuff from Jane about now?! Honestly, I am starting to believe she really IS Jane Tanner myself, she's about as rational and talks about as much sense! WTF is Morticia anyway?

Zodiac said...

SM/LIBRA,

Re: photo. I take your point that it is possible to snap an expression in a second. In the photo the two of them at the same time though, what are the chances of that given their circumstances. Also I remember reading a post from someone on the Sky site who claimed (note I say claimed) to have been in PDL at the same time as them and she said they were at the Church had photo's taken sad looking etc and not much later she saw them in the shop laughing and smiling licking ice lollies.

Zodiac said...

If it were my daughter I would never be able to smile again!


Nancy, me too.

nancy said...

Rat -

What is WTF - no don't answer that, I just cottoned on!!
At least Jane seems to be keeping her sense of humour. She was one of the pros I least minded on the DX!

I wonder if the rest of the gang laughed at themselves in the line up!

Do you think that Madeleine's disappearance could have been a put up job? I value your opinion on this?

Nancy x

SwedishMum said...

Zodiac,

and we all remember the photo outside church on the day Madeleine turned/should have turned four.

docmac said...

SM, it was her reaction to that picture I photoshopped, posted on supertroll.

SwedishMum said...

Thanks Doc,

that photo really was something else - as was JaneGT's reaction, of course.

Zodiac said...

Doc 14.46pm,

Thanks for making that clear, I did not understand her post. Now I have re-read it makes sense, I think.

ratonthebeam said...

Nancy, at first I thought it might just have been a tragic accident and cover-up. Then I thought that it might just be one big hoax that maybe went wrong. Now, I am leaning more towards premeditation. Not quite sure about the motive, though. I have still to get my head round that. The smiley happy people photo didn't help - it was not a "snapshot in time". The makeup, matching clothing, smiles and professional video cameraman in the background were premeditated.

docmac said...

Disclaimer: What follows is satire and does not reflect the views or opinion of the author. One would have to be truly evil to hold these views which have been unashamedly borrowed from others.

Oh dear, another young woman held and abused for years against her will in Austria. This happened only 80 miles from Vienna, where Natascha Kampusch was kidnapped and held in similar circumstances only 14 years later. It's obvious that there is a connection here. I have lots of Austrian friends and they agree with me. Do you all see it too?

*Fritzl, Priklopil. Both were male and their surnames both end with 'l'! They must be the same man!!!
*Both victims were female.
*Both cases occurred in Europe, in this instance even in the same country!!!
*Neither case is being mentioned on another blog where they truly care about all abductions.
*And what is it with cellars in that country? Does Austria keep a cellar register?

I was in Austria in 1998 and I always felt uneasy, as if something was not quite right. Now I know why. What the hell is going on in Austria? They advertise their country as youngster-friendly and just look what happens there. Why did it take their police 24 years to find this woman? Did they learn nothing from the Kampusch case? They are probably all fat, lazy, pig ignorant alcoholics tanked up on apfelstrudel and gluhwein. They probably can't even ski! Even bloody Hitler could ski.

The government that they work for don't even care about skiers anyway. All they care about is their tourism industry, but do they care if you have paid good money and there is no snow? Oh no, they don't give a monkey's. Well I say shove Austria's tourism industry. I know lots of people who will never go there again. There are lots of other snowy places which have started less wars and which are cheaper too. And while we are on about it, I say charge Austria with negligence, kick them out of the EU and boot this uncivilised, medieval country right into the middle of the Mediterranean Ocean. I must stress that all my Austrian friends, other friends, colleagues, acquaintances, the local newspaper, my wife's manicurist and the neighbour's cat all agree with me.

Austria? Pah!

SwedishMum said...

Doc,

that's hilarious!!!

docmac said...

Thanks SM,

I have just had a thought. I'm going to write a book on these cases. It'll make millions and I'll send a fiver to each of those who inspired me to write it, so I shouldn't be critisized on any blogs.

nancy said...

Docmac -

You really are priceless!!!

We need another story about the UK too that certain bloggers think is a worldly paradise for children!

Don't dare to leave us!

docmac said...

Erm, criticized. Not that I'm sizeist mind you.

ratonthebeam said...

I went to the hairdressers and all the ladies there, getting their blue rinses done, said that it is a very common thing to keep your daughter locked up in a cellar and that they have all done it!!! :-)

SwedishMum said...

Doc,

do you really think a fiver will do the tricks? Sounds a bit cheap to me ...

docmac said...

Nancy

I have ceded any rights to the British perspective to LGC.

docmac said...

Rat, lol!!!

SM, that's a very tricky loaded question. I plead the fifth.

SwedishMum said...

Well Doc,

I bet you aren't the only one pleading the fifth.

docmac said...

Gina,

If you are looking in, the psycho is dishing out free psychotherapy for you on the other side.

nancy said...

Rat -

Thanks for getting back and it seems we are all mystified by this case!

Premeditation would obviously imply that some scheme (ie.agreed abduction) was worked out down to the last detail before they went on holiday to PdeL. So it could be that they went there with the prior intention of handing Madeleine over to someone they know would take care of her in order to take the stress off Kate, bearing in mind that Madeleine was supposed to be a difficult child to handle. Or it could be a way of making themselves world famous and doing what they appear to be doing now - earning big bucks and notoriety on the back of their daugher Madeleine! Whatever the result of this case, they will be virtually made for life as far as money is concerned!

The difficulty in this case is that when you work out one theory something comes up to discount it and so on and so forth!

I am sure the truth will come out one day though.

Nx

nancy said...

Rat -

That lot having the blue rinses must have been that gang in the photos - with the exception of Mark of course!!! Loved that!

docmac said...

Where's everyone gone? Do you need a joke to wake you up?

Stella said...

True spin in full spin....

The very same day Mark Williams Thomas claims there will be another abduction very soon, Sky releases a report of yet another attempted kidnapping which they say is "linked" to missing Madeleine McCann.

What a load of hog wash.....

These next few days I suspect we will be in for a rolercoaster spin, hold onto your wigs everyone..

docmac said...

Stella, exactly! Can you lend me one of your wigs?

Stella said...

Which colour do you prefer?

Bundleman Brown? or Katie Blonde?

docmac said...

Bianca's blog has been removed. Come back here, Bianca. Not right now of course, unless you are on one of your all-nighters.

docmac said...

Rosie red

Stella said...

Doc

As Basil used to say, boom, boom !!

docmac said...

Basil was right.

Stella said...

Viv

Another thing about that "happy" photo is that they are both once again wearing watches. In fact I have yet to see a photo of either of them not wearing one..

viv said...

Hiya Everyone

Well every day we are treated to this rollercoaster spin, I am going to keep featuring that pic of Kate and Gerry which Swedishmum referred me to where, as ever, we see shocked, Portuguese, unable to understand what this couple look so elated about, almost like they just won the lottery..maybe they did!

Now featured at the top of this thread, the wondercouple who can laugh in the face of adversity.

Viv x

dolores said...

Hi Viv darling,
There is another photo which would look well with this one,3 of them holding the giant T-shirt.very happy smiles form all.
I am trying to find itbut if anyone else has it post here please.

xx D

Stella said...

The "happy" photo is in stark contrast to the look on their faces when they landed in the UK on the 9th September, don't you think...

Gerry's tears of relief that day said it all, we are home, we are safe...

SwedishMum said...

Hi Viv,

Hope you're fine.
No need to give me any credit for the picture, as I said I found it on 3A.
Anyway, as you probably can imagine, I was rather "surprised" when I saw it.

viv said...

Mark Williams Thomas wanted to launch a career in being a public speaker. His major public speaking has been on the McCann case arranged by an agency for male public speakers whose business address is in LEICESTER..what a coincidence that is. I am annoyed about his suggestions he manages and assesses risks offenders pose to the community, as a qualified probation officer I can tell you that it what probatiion officers do, in company with the police, SSD etc. This is highly confidential stuff and absolutely nothing to do with this jumped up media tart who likes to pretend he knows anything. It is a bit like "worse preserved crime scene I ever seen"...but he never saw the crime scene did he!

This prat, it can be guaranteed, is being paid money from the Find Madeleine Fund - money well spent?

Viv x

http://www.menspeakers.co.uk/

docmac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dolores said...

Viv,
I found the photo,you have mail
XX D

dolores said...

Viv
I think the photo I sent was taken about 12 days after the disappearence
XXX D

docmac said...

test

viv said...

Hello Swedish, Dolores, Doc and anyone else around.

To me they do look like a couple who just won the lottery and I am sorry to say this but that is precisely what they thought. Money was pouring into the Find Maddie Fund and even as we speak they are penning a book, with a ghost writer of course, so that money keeps on flowing..to them.

To me the cashing in suggests a couple who do not possess normal human emotions and the picture says just the same.

docmac said...

Where did my 16.44 post go, Viv?

viv said...

Hiya Doc

I deleted it because I though it was rather race specific!

Viv x

dolores said...

Viv,
MWT is an imposter with no morals,he would probably sell his soul to the devil.

Stella said...

So, amongst other things Mark Williams-Thomas is a so called child protection expert??

It is a shame he never spoke up in the beginning about the dangers of leaving small children on their own, we just might have taken him seriously.

I fully agree Viv, he is a 1st class prat.

docmac said...

But it is in the same satirical vein as my expose. You just don't want me to write the book and make oodles of McRands, Viv :-(

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

Yes, he is another media tart, arranged by Gerry McCann and Clarence Mitchell to say whatever they want the little idiot to say.

Intellect and integrity are not words he relates to, cashing in and getting famous on the back of a dead little girl are though..If I met this chap he would see the nasty side of me:-)

I am going to check my mail:-)

Viv x

ratonthebeam said...

This is another very disturbing photo, which I think should have remained firmly glued in the family album. There was speculation on the 3As that it was by a professional photographer. Many of the posters found it vaguely disturbing - I know I did, although I couldn't quite put the finger on why, exactly. It's here.

viv said...

Hiya Doc

Maybe you just caught me at a bad moment:-)

I am simply furious about Mark Williams Thomas.

Again, child protection expert! There are dedicated police officers who work with victims of child abuse, I have worked with them when offenders have finally felt able to report their childhood abuse. There are dedicated lawyers who work in this field. There are probation officers who specialise in this field and of course the Social Services Department have experts in child protection. Just how dare he say he is an expert in anything of that nature which is all dealt with by government agencies in a highly confidential way. Neither is he any sort of an academic expert - where are his published papers?

He is a media tart who does not have access to any information about offenders or police investigations and he is going to keep getting a slating on here!


Viv x

Stella said...

Rat

There is a name on the photo, Paul Grover, is that the photographer?

docmac said...

Viv, I'll rephrase it then.

Did you see my expose of a certain country? I don't know what possesses people to visit that country. How a certain poster feels safe there is beyond me. I think that country has more cellars than a certain continent has grey or non-grey elephants. Maybe they even have cellars big enough to house either grey or non-grey elephants. I am undecided about elephant culls - whether they are grey or non-grey, leaning towards avoiding them, but that country needs to get rid of those cellars for sure.

viv said...

Doc I am so sorry!!

Of course you are not being racist you are being highly satirical and it is funny!

You just caught me at a moment when I am not in a joking mood!


Luv ~Viv xxxxxxx

docmac said...

It's OK, Viv. Just hormones. Rosie will be able to help out there I think.

ratonthebeam said...

Stella, we think so, yes. Here is his website - and this is what it says about him.

Paul Grover has been working as a photographer for the Daily Telegraph since 1991.

Covering news, sports and features in the UK and abroad.

And in diverse locations as the North Pole to South America, Africa, The Middle East and Asia.

Over the years, Paul’s gathered an extensive portfolio - which has contributed to an invaluable wealth of experience.

Including civil wars & famine, Prime Ministers past & present, weddings & celebrity events, football world cups, party political conferences, business, political & celebrity portraits.


It doesn't say where he is based, and just gives a mobile number.

viv said...

Doc

I have read the latest comments of Rosiepops that you are obviously referencing where she claims there are tunnels leading right to the police station in PDL and the PJ are keeping Maddie a prisoner down there. To say this is sick is something of an understatement, maybe he/she finally lost the plot altogether.

Luv Viv

Once again, SORRYXX

Stella said...

Rat

I know what you mean about that photo?? I was trying to get some family photo's recently and the children kept moving so fast they all came out blurred, I didn't manage to get one in focus and thoughtnI had a pretty decent camera. I blamed my husband as he kept making them laugh so much. You would need a professional to capture a small child throwing her head back fast and keep it all in focus. Why would a photographer be taking shots looking down a little girls dress ? ? ?OMG

dolores said...

Viv
How could anyone reading what MTW be taken in when he does not even know what evidence the police have.He is dishonest in implying about the crime scene being contaminated.He should be brought to boook by the proper authorities for his comments which are totally unfounded and not credible.
In other words he should be put promptly in his place.What is wrong with people today, have they no backbone to question this paid liar.
Britain has become a laughing stock of lazy journalism.
IMO.
XX D

ratonthebeam said...

That's why I didn't publish it directly. It's up to everybody else to go and look at it if they want. How it got onto the internet I'll never know. :-(

docmac said...

Viv, see 14.59. And stop apologising. You know me better than that :-)

viv said...

OK Doc!

ROB

I have just looked at that pic and I am completely horrified. You just cannot help but wonder why Gerry McCann has this massive media machine to defend them, whether it is even more sinister than I have always thought.

To coin his phrase it makes me sick to the pit of my stomach just contemplating it, particularly given the way they have referenced the Leonora case that did involve serious sexual abuse.

isis said...

Rat, not going to look at the pic, just tell me is it the same one there was a discussion on over on the 3as?

dolores said...

ROTB,
I feel physically sick at such a provocative pose,I think we are dealing with the dregs of humanity here.

ratonthebeam said...

Isis, it's the one where she has her head tilted back and is looking upwards and backwards at the photographer.

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

Checked mail now and already have that pic of them (where the three of them are delightedly holding up a maddie t shirt) but thanks for flagging it up again, I can see it being aired:-)

Viv x

ratonthebeam said...

Have to leave now as have stuff to do, will look in later tonight XXX

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