17 Apr 2008

CLARENCE FINDS AND EXCUSE FOR KATE

The interview that caused a Spanish Psychiatrist to say Kate cries with the face of a poker player..and certainly has much to hide..certainly looks like the makeup artist done a good job here..."beautiful". It has never been my experience of crying to keep the makeup perfect. Black mascara streaks and a shiny nose spring to mind!

Hi All, As I posted back Kate was clearly intimating she would not wish to go back for any reconstruction because she was feeling "emotionally fragile" but then managed to go and face a host of Euro MPs with press flash bulbs and then a press conference as well. Some might think that would be an impossible feat for someone who was feeling fragile. We also noted Clarence's concerned look for Kate with her heavy case, and no doubt considerable trepidation as Gerry just bounded onto the train ahead of her, without so much as a backward glance. Like her knight in shinging armour, Clarence now lays into the PJ over the alleged leak of their statements. But the PJ are hitting back just as hard, confirming they have done no such thing and that Mitchell is just inventing excuses for them not to return. People have suggested to me Mitchell himself leaked these, and I kind of rubbished the idea, but, if they are forced to go back for that reconstruction in accordance with their Arguido status, chances are they will be arrested. So even though leaking the statements is very damaging indeed to the McCanns maybe actually he did, because what could be worse than them being arrested? That is what they so desperately seek to avoid, quite obviously, that is what their "campaign" has been about. Who seriously believes it has been anything to do with finding Maddie? Maybe it is a last ditch and very desperate effort to save the McCanns by highlighting just how apparently unfair and underhand the PJ are..I wonder when we will get 'how can we get a fair trial now'. You can almost bet it is coming.


The article below certainly got me thinking again. The other handy suspects given the leak was made in Spain and perversely the leaker said they are innocent is Metodo 3. I could not get my head around why something so damaging would be leaked and yet the leaker would say but they are innocent. I think I got it now!


Do you remember back in October when Clarence was blasting off the McCanns may sue the Portuguese Police but the Portuguese lawyers were explaining that was hardly credible..posted a good article about that too, underneath from The Daily Mail. Looking back at many of their articles it perhaps is a little unfair to say they have always been on the side of Kate and Gerry!


Oh one last thing, I am sure I am not the only one to notice, the DE removed all their articles, but left the comments, now the comments have gone as well. What a pity, I loved to go back and spend the odd 10 minutes checking "Rosiepops" almost 8000 posts:-) Family member, too right, if not, what incredible devotion to a cause..in the most aggressive McCann type of way, that is. But "she" seems to have lost heart in her own little blog now, wonder why?


Viv x



Portuguese police accuse McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell of 'lying through his teeth'Last updated at 12:16pm on 15th April 2008
The hunt for Madeleine McCann was engulfed in a war of words yesterday as Portuguese police criticised her parents' spokesman.

Detectives denied Clarence Mitchell's claims that police had deliberately leaked statements from Kate and Gerry McCann and said they regretted his 'baseless intervention'. In an astonishing attack today Portuguese police union chief Carlos Anjos told respected Portuguese daily Jornal de Noticias: "Mr Mitchell wants to discredit the Policia Judiciaria and invent excuses so the McCanns do not come to Portugal to participate in the reconstruction of the night she disappeared.
"He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth.
"Finally we know what side truth is on.
"While the Policia Judiciaria were fulfilling their duty of investigating what happened to Madeleine, her parents' spokesman was manipulating public opinion."
"He needed to find an excuse for the McCanns not to take part in the reconstitution, saying that he doesn't trust the Policia Judiciaria."
In an extraordinary turn of events, Anjos told Jornal de Noticias his union was offering advice to officers who felt they had been identified by Mr Mitchell's leak claims and wanted to take legal action.

Yesterday, in a rare public statement - only the fifth in the 11-month investigation - the Policia Judiciaria said Mr Mitchell should not have spoken out, because the police operation had reached a 'significant' stage. But last night Mr Mitchell insisted he stands by his claims that the statements were 'shamelessly' leaked to overshadow the McCanns' high-profile visit to the European Parliament to promote a missing child alert campaign last week.
Coverage of the visit was dominated by the revelations that on the morning of May 3, just hours before she disappeared from the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz, Madeleine asked her mother: "Mummy, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?"
Mr Mitchell said: "I'm not retracting a word of what I said. The Portuguese police have yet to explain how these statements came to be leaked.
"Their criticism of me doesn't explain how that confidential material came to be made public, and with very curious timing."

He warned police last week that 'the gloves were off' following the leaking of the couple's police statements, and branded the leak 'brazen, shameless and cackhanded'.
Detectives hit back yesterday after a meeting between the head of the investigation, Paulo Rebelo, and public prosecutor Jose Cunha Magalhaes e Menezes.
In a statement posted on the force's website, a spokesman said: "The spokesman for the couple, Clarence Mitchell, publicly expressed the view to diverse media outlets, that he was certain the Policia Judiciaria was responsible for the leaks.
"The PJ want to make it clear that it is entirely false that this report included material from the inquiry, which is covered by the secrecy of justice.
"The PJ regrets the baseless intervention of the spokesman, above all at a moment when significant moves were being made in the investigation."
The police refused to reveal what was meant by 'significant moves'.
--------
nah let's get The Daily Express instead! but we better leave it a few months to bump the cash up..There was me thinking libel was to protect your reputation and you were supposed to immediately demand they stop the publications. Not the McCann way, you watch and you wait, while your money goes up! Like Clarence kept telling us the other million from kind little old ladies and people on Income Support they scammed was running a bit low..Enjoy your 4 x 4 whilst you can, Gerry x
viv x
McCanns may sue Portuguese police for £1m if Madeleine investigation is closedLast updated at 11:32am on 9th November 2007
Comments (24) Kate and Gerry McCann could sue the Portuguese police for failure to find their daughter, it was claimed yesterday.
The couple could sue for an estimated £1million if the investigation is closed, it was reported.
Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said it was something the couple's legal team might consider in the future.
Scroll down for more...

Kate and Gerry McCann could sue for an estimated £1million if the investigation is closed, it has been reported
Read more...
Madeleine: Changes in evidence from Tapas Nine could 'dramatically change investigation'
Kate McCann screamed 'They've taken her' from the balcony, police insist
One of the Portuguese lawyers acting for the McCanns, Rogerio Alves, told the newspaper Diario de Noticias: "What has to be done will be done in due time."
A second member of their legal team, Carlos Pinto de Abreu said such a move was "technically possible" but would be difficult in practice.
It would rely on the McCanns being able to prove that Portuguese police had failed to act on information which could have led them to Madeleine.
One of the witnesses who claims to have seen the four-year-old in Morocco has told how police refused to investigate her sighting, saying: "It can't have been Madeleine because we believe she's dead."
Scroll down for more...

Madeleine McCann has been missing since May 3
Other witnesses have complained that Portuguese police never returned their calls or investigated their sightings.
Mr Pinto de Abreu said: "You would have to prove that it was intentional. It is very, very difficult, almost impossible to do.
"Only if you had information that someone had said they knew where the child was and the police had taken no action.
"It wouldn't be easy but it would be possible."
Asked if it was something he would consider on behalf of the McCanns, he said: "I cannot think about it."
The lawyer said it would not be possible for the couple to sue the Portuguese state for defamation over the decision to make them suspects in their daughter's disappearance.
He said: "The officials have always said that all lines of the investigation remain open.
"That is quite a cautious opinion. That's all they've said."
The couple's spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "It is something for their lawyers to consider further on down the line.
"The only way this case will close for Kate and Gerry is when Madeleine is found safe and well."
There has been speculation that the case could be closed as early as Christmas

250 comments:

1 – 200 of 250   Newer›   Newest»
viv said...

What did the public on the Daily Mail actually think of the threat to sue the PJ back in November..simply furious.

What do we think of the strategies of Clarence Mitchell to get his clients out of trouble, simply Ludicrous. I read somewhere today Clarence said, the McCanns need lawyers, people like me to represent them. Excuse Clarence but you are not a lawyer, you are a jumped up arrogant little prat:-) Said it before, go on sue me:-)

Love Viv x oh and hear are the comments, I think they are very apt, bar one I think! but it sounded a bit tongue in cheek:-)

Read em and weep Oh Mighty Pink One!

Not written on this blog but I think they deserve reproducing..if you made them angry back in November, imagine how they feel now, Mr Ludicrous x

-------------------------------

Sue Sue Sue, here we go again, that's all they ever keep coming out with. One minute it's we are going to sue the press the next it's the police.


- Catherine Johnson, Wiltshire

How would this help Madeleine?

- Marie, Glasgow

This is truly unbelievable and I sincerely hope that the McCanns will not try to benefit from the loss of their daughter in this way. In fact, I am saddened that their lawyers are even looking into this for them.

- Diana, Staffs

This is ludicrous and shows just how stupid this whole show has become.

- Stan., Lincoln

The Team McCann is simply fantastic.
Marvellous idea...

- Antonio, Portugal

Yeah right. Now I HAVE heard everything. I refuse to read any more.

- Maicen, Kent UK

Stupidest thing I've ever heard related to this case. This is completely...well... ludicrous!

- Peter, Surrey

The McCann's could sue the Portuguese police for not finding the daughter they chose to leave unattended?

- Anna, Belgium

Surely all cases after a while must wind up and take a lesser priority. I find it difficult to believe that the McCanns could possibly be thinking of suing the police and hope that this is yet another inaccurate story. If not then I would wonder what the motives of the McGann team were thinking

- Sarah, Stoke-on-Trent

They get worse.

- Sheila, Southampton, UK

If half of the effort was put into finding Maddy as has been stalling, pointing fingers at the McCanns, and changing of stories, I belive Madeleine would have been found weeks ago!

- Sam, US

I'm sorry, until now I have felt very sorry for them... but if they were to sue the police they would set a horrible precedence for the future.

- Julie, virginia beach, USA

Is there no end to the nonsense coming from Team McCann and their spin machine?

- John, Sevenoaks

Extraordinary! I do wish Team McCann would concentrate on the search. Talk of such litigation is bound to alienate sympathy.

- Tom, Hereford

I think this very harsh on the PJ. Yes, they made errors in the beginning which may well have made the future of the investigation more difficult. But it is proving the fact that had the investigation started off differently, would Madeleine been found at this point?

- Pip, United Kingdom

Parents are supposed to protect their children and when they don't, they cannot expect someone else to take the blame.

- Mistery, Southampton

It wasn't the Portuguese police or media who made the decision to leave the children unattended in an unlocked and unwatched apartment.

- Linda, New York City

Clarence Mitchell certainly ensures that the McCanns receive their daily ration of publicity.

- Christine Hoier, Raabylille Strand, Denmark

How can someone who's lost their child even think of sueing?

- Philip Davy, London

Unbelievable!
Every day they find a new way to shock the public.

- A., Bournemouth, UK

But they have got a million. How much do they want?

- Jane, Newcastle

These two make me sick, they leave their kids all alone then they fail to inform the police straight away about their missing daughter then they blame the police for not finding her and are thinking about suing an already poor country.

- S, Leicester

Going to sue? Maybe the McCanns and the Tapas nine should all be sued for leaving all their children alone at night?

Simply unbelievable! I have no words for this. I want Maddy found and pray for her every single day as she is the victim here. God bless Maddy, hope she will be found safe and well.

- Sianie, Portugal

I hope this case is resolved soon. I pray for Maddy.

- MLP, UK

marga said...

Good Morning!

Yes, Viv this shows how well people are aware of the spin around this case.I'm sure blogs like yours have contributed to this awareness.
In fact it was the couple's choice to use the media in such an unprecedented way right from the beginning despite knowing this decision would also have drawbacks. They even risked to publicize Maddie's eye defect in pictures and in that logo sth that the police wanted them not to do.

They took their decisions an their PR have done everything to manipulate the press (not only) according to their dance.

Now it seems to me the monster they created is turning against them. They should have behaved like normal grieving parents and have helped the police doing their job properly without any interference and with all their cooperation. Unless the PJ are right and this was part of the cover up.
MR Pink is, especially now doing them more harm than good. He must also come to this conclusion I believe.
I think this case will last more than they thought and this can be unbearable for some of the weakest links directly involved.And there must be at least one or two.

News here in PT is one about Dr. Gonçalo Amaral sueing Marcos Aragão ( that Madeira laywer who paid the searches for Maddie in March),
This saga is becoming more incredible than fiction. Only hope it not to turn in a never-ending story.

Little Maddie,
we all send our love to you.

AMOR E CARINHO

marga said...

There has been nothing about this innocent little girl anymore.
After those "sights" it is so sad to see she is almost forgotten by the ones who should search for her...

marga said...

Today in
http://www.joana-morais.blogspot.com/

Wizard said...

Hi Viv,

I was just wondering, when you get a minute, could you kindly explain CM’s legal position in all this. To me if you are a solicitor or barrister for a defendant at trial, it is not for you to decided whether they are guilty or not, but if your client says they wish to plead not guilty the legal team will defend them by testing the law and the strengths and weaknesses of the prosecutions case. If despite these efforts their clients are proven guilty the legal team are not charged because they defended and upheld statements by their clients that were later proven as lies.

With regard to CM he is saying he believes the McCanns are innocent and the McCanns are telling him they are innocent. I would have thought he runs everything past them before he makes it public - so is he guilty of anything. His remarks about the pj were made no doubt from conversations with the McCanns. He is their “mouth piece” if you like but is he himself guilty of anything other than doing his job? I can understand the position between client and barrister/solicitor but not with someone in CM’s position.

lorraine said...

Morning Marga,

Do you know who were the mccanns investigators before metodo, I can't remember.

Wizard
I would like to think that Clarence is responsible for any statements he makes about the case.

nancy said...

Hi Viv - great article again!

This threat to sue the PJ's is probably another empty one along with all the others, but if not I am sure the PJ's lawyers would make a counterclaim over the number of inconsistencies in the McCann's and their friends statements.

Also bearing in mind the fact that Kate left 40 questions unanswered which delayed and in a way tampered with the PJ's efforts to find Madeleine.

I know there is a possibility they could try, but personally I don't they would have a leg to stand on!! Just who do these people think they are when you think how much time, money and effort has been spent by the PJ's looking for Madeleine - it's obvious they are only looking to feather their nest with any compensation they can hope to win! I think they are in a no win situation personally and could end up doing themselves much more harm than good!!

Just how far will these two go to try and cover up the fact they neglected their children? I can imagine the PJ's saying 'bring it on' if they do try this!

Wizard said...

Morning All,

I know we have a couple of posters who are undecided as to the culpability of the McCanns. I would like to repeat a paragraph for a George Galloway article that I posted a couple of days ago. I have to say I do like the way Galloway phrases this part of his argument.

“The McCanns have either been the victims of a cataclysmic historic injustice, almost unprecedented, or they have been complicit in a scheme so duplicitous, so evil, so foul that Shakespeare himself could not have written it.”

nancy said...

It seems that Kate and Gerry McCann (and their mouthpiece CM) are much more concerned in their own welfare than the welfare of Madeleine. Hence this business about suing the PJ's - something else to take the public's mind off the fact they neglected their children and put the blame for Madeleine's continued disappearance on the PJ's.

Without doubt, they are going about trying to find Madeleine in the exact opposite way of what they should be doing. They should be co-operating with the PJ's and the Portuguese authorities down to the last detail; they haven't been and I think they will live to regret that.

Stella said...

What ever happened with the news that PJ intend to sue CM. Nothing in the papers or on Sky, is this yet another news blackout in Team mcCann's benefit?

Wizard said...

Hi Nancy,

I think you are right. Madeleine has now been pushed on the back boiler whilst they forward their argument – primarily they are innocent and therefore the only other explanation to account for what happened is she was abducted. Imo opinion this argument is of course based on a false premise and is the reason everything about the McCanns behaviour looks odd and out of sync.

Most people who follow the case are aware they ridicule the pj because the pj accuse them. They want people to believe in their innocence despite the pj’s view to the contrary. Equally the McCanns will not return voluntarily for an enactment of May 3rd because it is to help the police with their enquiries and not to help the McCanns. The McCanns are not able to clear their names but will pursue a programme that aims to cast doubt on there involvement.

Wizard said...

Stella,
Foreign press are covering it see http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/

English press obviously think they will be sued it they print anything negative?

Stella said...

Wizard,
Thanks for the link

That is incredible really, I personally have never heard before of anyone involved with the prime suspects in a case being sued by the authorites before it goes to court. This should be on all front pages. I wonder how CM got round hiding this one?

Wizard said...

Nancy, I meant, of course, the back burner not boiler. lol

dolores said...

Correio Da Manha 17/4/08
Portimão PJ to sue McCann's spokesman

The declarations of Kate McCann reminding a conversation with her daughter Maddie the day she disappeared, concerning the fact that the day before she left her crying in the bedroom, are not part of the official process of the Criminal Police, as it was discovered by the CM. They were reproduced by the Spanish television Telecinco and the journalist Nacho Abad says he has proof that they are true ' but they will be clarifications made by Kate to private detectives.

The process still remains in secrecy of justice but "the day it will be open to the public it will be easy to prove that those declarations are not there" said a source close to the investigations. Therefore, this leak could never have come from the PJ.

"The day that that situation will be duly clarified" Clarence Mitchell will be sued by damages caused against the image of elements of the Department of Criminal Investigation of Portimão, after being "unjustly accused" by the McCanns spokesman of passing informations of the process to the media.

The British police also know that those declarations of Kate, about her relationship sometimes difficult with her daughter are not in the process. When the Spanish channel reproduced them a delegation of the PJ was in Leicester to hear the McCann's friends and the British authorities confirmed that it was a deposition made by Kate to private investigators. It is a company that worked for the couple before Método 3 and in the end printed a report with those sentences. According to our sources, only 3 parts have copies of those documents: the company, the McCanns and the British authorities.

The problems with the international press continue and yesterday the Telegraph advanced declarations of Guilhermino Encarnação after a meeting with the prosecutor quoting him saying that the "case will be solved whoever it hurts". Source close to the responsible of the Faro's PJ guarantees to the CM that none of this is true.

Details

ASFIC supports the process

Contacted by the CM, the president of the PJ Union, Carlos Anjos, guarantees that "all legal support is available" in case the investigators of Portimão want to sue Clarence Mitchell, spokesman of the McCanns, by damages against the image of the department.

Reconstruction

Carlso Anjos believes that the controversy created around Kate's declarations, with accusations to the PJ by the eventual leak of information that discredits the couple, "is a mere artifice to avoid cooperation with the Portuguese justice". The PJ wants to reconstruct the crime but according to the couple spokesman this will only happen if they stop being arguidos.
Henrique Machado
----------------



Looks like it must be Hogan International

A former Scotland Yard detective hired to search for Madeleine McCann is conducting a private murder investigation to discredit police evidence against her parents.
But last night fears were raised that Noel Hogan might not be up to the job.
Mr Hogan, who runs a private detective agency, has re-interviewed British witnesses including the McCanns holiday friends.

He is also understood to have gone through the McCanns’ own statements in minute detail with the couple.
In a startling twist, Kate and Gerry’s lawyers have ordered that their own inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance, while on holiday in Portugal last May, should focus on the theory that the three-year-old was killed and her body hidden.
Hogan International, which specialises in asset investigations, is taking over the case after the McCanns benefactors voiced dismay at the lack of tangible progress made by the Spanish agency Metodo 3.
Sources close to the inquiry say the two firms have a history of rivalry after previously clashing over conflicting investigations.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... ecide.html

Cláudia said...

Go Gonçalo Amaral. I'm sure others will follow! :-)

Gina said...

Morning all

Just popped on to say Hi but have to go and do some things so will read and post later.

I had hoped to post on both blogs because it is good to exchange views when you are on the fence as to who did what. However I have just worked out that someone on the other blog thinks I am Goncalo Amaral, so what is the point now, my cover has been blown.

Yes I am Goncalo Amaral, and the only reason I am so bad at my job is because I cannot speak Portuguese!!!

See you all later

Cláudia said...

Gina, lololol

Well, I can pretty much say you're not. Maybe Paulo Pereira Cristóvão? ;-)

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello All (including Goncalo Amoral),

This is where they fall down time and time again - why on earth accuse the PJ of leaking something that you didn't tell them??

How clever is that?

Cláudia said...

LGC, intelligence is not one of their traits.
P.S: Gonçalo Amaral has a lot more important things to do than spend his time online.

LittleGreyCell said...

Claudia,

Oh, I know Goncalo Amaral is a busy man - he has the cleaning to do for a start, closely followed by the ironing (or is that Gina? Can't seem to tell them apart these days). :)

Claudia, I know they're not intelligent (the fun of it is, they think their brains are enormous), but in their situation, would you not make sure to think things through enough to counter every scenario?

How is it they're so intent of accusing the PJ of leaking material they just didn't have on file?

Obviously, this is being used as an excuse not to go back to Portugal, but surely by now - with almost a year's experience of everything they say and do (and don't say and don't do) being scrutinized publically to an extraordinary degree - surely by now they would have learned to take care to use their brains??

marga said...

Gina,

are you the real one?

Cláudia said...

LCG, when people have said so many things, so many versions to so many people, it gets a little hard to remember all...

LittleGreyCell said...

Claudia,

Exactly! And they haven't yet learned to think BEFORE opening their mouths...

marga said...

Olá Claudinha!

marga said...

Lorraine,

your question:

Morning Marga,

Do you know who were the mccanns investigators before metodo, I can't remember.
I really don't know. i only heard that a retired detective was here I suppose working for Sky news.

Cláudia said...

LGC, neither they nor CM.
By the way, CM has become a bit silent, hasn't he? :-)

Olá, Marga! :-)

marga said...

Cláudia,

what a game yesterday!
Have you already recovered?:-)

marga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
marga said...

Sorry,I had to delete my previous post since I have copied Claudias post and many others too.
What a lost of cyberspace!

my answer:
They be must having a secret summit to decide the next step.LOL

Cláudia said...

Yes, Marga. I have already recovered from it. In fact, I was in such a great mood yesterday that very little could change it! :-)
I think you're right about the summit! :-)

marga said...

Have to go again!

Bye..

Gina,SM:

Have read you here and on the other blog. Take care!

marga said...

Claudete,

(xeirame a xturro cum eztas zwei)

See you later. As I am not a multitasking poster, have really to go ...

Cláudia said...

Marga,

no need to.

See you later, I hope! :-)

marga said...

Cláudia,
have they scored altogether 8 or 9 goals?

Cláudia said...

8! 5-3. :-)

Ana said...

Hello all,

Lorraine,
I think that before Retardo3 they hired Hogan International and before that they hired Control Risk Group, but not sure...

Cláudia,

How are you?
What a wonderful game last night! And in the beginning of the match thought that it was the Benfica that would play the Portugal Cup final along With FCPorto...

Hya Marga,


8 goals:)

Cláudia said...

Hello, Ana! :-)
I'm pretty damn good, thank you! :-) And how are you?
As you can imagine, I also thought that Benfica would win the game. Oh well...

Ana said...

One of the journalists – Quote: “stupid sardine….” Sos Maddie

McCanns in Brussels: behind the scenes

Google Translation:

«…Like any journalist worthy of the name, Daniel Rosario, Brussels correspondent of Radio Renascença (Portugal) used the press conference to discuss the status of the couple with the Portuguese justice, Gerry and Kate questioning whether it would McCann no more appropriate to come to Parliament to join the initiative of a European warning system once the situation is clarified. If the sudden intervention of Clarence Mitchell was perfectly predictable, claiming 'McCann are accused of nothing and have the right to be like everyone else, "before suggesting Gerry whatsoever to respond, the comments two journalists who have come to be surprised.


"Stupid… sardines," began by criticizing one of the British, the well-known former director of the Surveillance Unit of the Media in the service of Tony Blair and, subsequently, Gordon Brown.

If the press conference brought nothing really new to the case McCann, or the status of the couple arguidos maintenance in the investigation in the disappearance of Madeleine, unable to prove it, with this incident, that Strategy adopted at Praia da Luz had borne fruit and today there are two sorts of people behind the information that the media will give you every day: professionals and other…

The end of the press conference allowed McCann and Clarence Mitchell to continue the program of their day in Brussels with the meeting of the UK ambassador in Belgium and several parliamentarians, which is the official version…»

link

LittleGreyCell said...

Claudia,

Not only has Clarrie lost his voice, but his exploits don't seem to have made much noise in the British press, either.

Strange thing, eh?

Ana said...

Cláudia,
well,I guess next year they will:)

Cláudia said...

What a shame, LGC. I miss them terribly. I hope they will be back soon with a bit of spin.

Cláudia said...

Ana, that's what we always say! :-)

Ana said...

Cláudia...Lol, Hope darling,hope!

Cláudia said...

Ana, to be honest, I don't care that much! :-) There are a lot more important things!

Ana said...

Cláudia,

Yes there are more important things to care about Like.
Is that right that the, so smart (not), Creatures of the House of Filth, think that Gina is Gonçalo Amaral !! Oh dear oh dear , I thought that Gonçalo Amaral was Alsabella…They really are behind believe !!Better decide:one way or another or they can not even do that !

Cláudia said...

Ana, those creatures (as you wisely call them) are losing it big time. They can't understand that the people they mention would never have and waste the time to be online. I'm sure you will be delighted to hear that I've also been Mr Paulo Pereira Cristóvão. I have to say that I've tried peeing standing up and it did not work at all! lolol

Gina said...

marga said...
Gina,

are you the real one?

Thursday, 17 April 2008 14:02:00 o'clock BST
...................................
Tip of the day - Wine
When buying wine you can either buy a relatively cheap wine (and these days some of these are extremely good) but they are designed to be drunk immediately. Alternatively you can buy a quality wine and store it. As good wine improves for a number of years, stays at a peak and then declines, the idea is to buy it on the way up, store it until it reaches its peak. I don't know how one is supposed to know when it has reached it's peak though! The other option, of course, is to buy it at its peak, but this is very costly.
___________________________________

No Marga, I am that drunken PJ officer Gonc, the real Gina gives cleaning tips :>)

Joe said...

I think Mr.Pink has been told to shut up for a while as he was hogging the limelight for all the wrong reasons. He will have to be careful now about any other planned leaks team McCann had in mind especially coming close to the anniversary of Madeline's disappearance, as he cannot blame them on the PJ. They are probably waiting to see what the PJ will do and are looking forward to the ITV documentary to put them in a good light again, redress the balance as it were, as Pink showed recently he should have remained anonymous as he does not appear to have the qualifications to be a PR man, just like Metodo 3

marga said...

Gina,

the drunken one who has admitted to have drunk quite a lot yesterday is neither him nor you (hope)...

GonÇ is not that type as someone wanted him to be painted...

LittleGreyCell said...

Joe,

It could be a bit of a problem for Kate and Gerry, couldn't it?

The very fact that the PJ have stated they are taking legal action against the Mitchell Brother must make them wonder how they are now to get their points across to the public. For if Clarence the Cross-Eyed Pussy is suspected of being less than economical with the truth, how can he spin effectively?

Ana said...

Cláudia,

Well, if they thought that you were Gonçalo Amaral, then I must be Santa’s…
Behind believe really!!!
Haven’t those creatures’ better things to think about? Like, for instance: how could those parents live 3 small children alone at night? Why are they focusing in PJ and the leak, when the important thing here is that those parents systematically neglect them!!! Stop those conspiracies theories, enough is enough!!!For God sake! Think about Madeleine, and think that the only ones that really are trying to find what has happen are the PJ officers. What are the McCanns doing? - Not cooperating!

marga said...

Gina,

my dear, how is the weather in Spain? have you heard further news about the digging?
Thanks

Gina said...

Ana, you could write to me an abusive post in Portuguese and get away with it, I cannot speak a word or Portuguese. To be fair to the others on that site it is only one to my knowledge that has this crazy notion, some I can talk to ok, and I think some just tolerate me. It doesn't matter either way.

Now what is going on today that I have missed, anything interesting

Cláudia said...

Ana, no I was not Gonçalo Amaral. Alsabella was Gonçalo Amaral. I was Paulo Pereira Cristóvão! lolol
Come on, Ana, don't be too strict. They were not neglectful. They were just naive and made a small mistake. Hey, don't forget it, lots of people do it. Pretty normal stuff...

Ana said...

Cláudia,

Sorry,I meant Mr Paulo Ribeiro Cristóvão not Gonçalo Amaral..Lol

nancy said...

joe -

I read in one of the papers that the ITV have changed the planned name of the planned documentary which was going to be called 'Madeleine McCann' to 'Madeleine one year on'! Why don't they call it 'The McCanns and CM one year on' that would be much more apt, because this last year has been all about them not Madeleine, and do they really have any idea how Madeleine is or where she is one year on?

A very unfortunate title to choose I think. This is all about getting money from the advertisers who know damned well that all eyes will be watching the McCanns one year on strutting about on their numerous self seeking events - not about what Madeleine is suffering one year on at all!

Nice little earner for the ITV and McCanns though!

marga said...

Cláudia, Ana,

if Alsa was him why the need of RM as a translator??LOL

LittleGreyCell said...

Claudia,

So how big is Alsabella's moustache?

Cláudia said...

Ana, lololol
If I cared, I would be worried about people's mental health elsewhere...

Gina said...

Hi Marga, the weather in Spain (my area anyway) is driving me crazy, it keeps getting extremely windy and it is not pleasant in the garden.

If you are talking about the digging in PDL, well the person who told me it was happening tends not to check things out very well, so Helen M on the other site who lives in PDL went down to have a look and confirmed they were not digging in the same area as where the road works were when M went missing. Aparently there has been a lot of new roadworks (or development) going on for ages and this is just part of it. I think the police being there was just a coincidence and had nothing to do with it

Cláudia said...

LGC, that that long but incredibly thick! lololol

Well, Marga, could you please stop asking intelligent questions? That is a small detail which should not interfere with people's imagination, ok? ;-)

Joe said...

LGC,

To be honest I believe the McCanns need to dispense with the Mitchell brother,as if anything, he has annoyed the public en masse through his aggression and irritating,arrogant. self satisfied and smug demeanour. Also its about time IMO that the McCanns faced up to the whole issue and deal with it once and for all instead of hiding behind the likes of the lackey Mitchell.

Gina said...

Joe I totally agree with you, I think Clarence was a bad choice in the beginning and he has got too big for his boots now.

LittleGreyCell said...

Joe,

And so say all of us!

:)

librarising said...

Well I think his gloves were magic gloves and now they're off his power and influence have deserted him.

Joe said...

Nancy,

you are absolutely right in your assessment.

I would question the timing of this documentary as to whether it would be prejudicial to any trial and unwise IMO to screen it at this time, unless the PJ decide to shelf the case long term, otherwise it is not appropriate to show. I suspect it is likely to be biased and non neutral,as so far the McCanns have only participated in matters which show them in a good light and of which they have control of the format and what is said or asked.

LittleGreyCell said...

Librarising,

Do you reckon he put one of his gloves in his mouth once too often?

Joe said...

Maybe someone has put a sock in Mitchell's mouth to use a phrase.

librarising said...

Joe and nancy - speaking of the documentary, I don't think anyone here drew attention to this blog entry from Sky's Europe correspondent a week ago (apologies if someone did, I just found it under a story about Angela Merkel's breasts which I was reading for some reason)

http://skynews8.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/04/madeleine-bewar.html

Seem the ITV crew were a bit exclusive about things. I wonder if this is behind Sky's recent tendency to take Mitchell with a pinch of salt?

Gina said...

Can I ask, does anybody know if there is a timescale on this case. By that I mean do the PJ have to charge or lift the status by a certain time. Did I read somewhere it is August.

And can anybody give me their view on what the PJ might be waiting for now, I cannot see they can gather anymore evidence now, so what they have is what they have got, so is there any point in not proceeding with whatever the end result is going to be

Ana said...

Cláudia,
If Madeleine was “abducted” which I don’t believe, but that is my opinion only, how can they call this a small Mistake? And aren’t they helping the investigation, they have nothing to fear, Portugal is a EU country and one of the first that stopped the dead penalty!

Gina,
How are you doing?
Well, Gina, I don’t Know if I can agree with you in that, No one in there think that PJ is doing is best to make sure that true will out, They only say polite things when you are on, but of course, when you are off, well PJ is the worst thing that they ever heard about and that Portugal is 3rd world country!! But That is my opinion and my opinion only maybe I am wrong:)

Marga,

you said:
«if Alsa was him why the need of RM as a translator??LOL»

LOL,maybe because of the Mmm Rrrr that Kate always say, you know!

librarising said...

LGC, I'm afraid he might get chilblains. Clar-ENCE! Put your gloves back on you'll catch your death!

ultraviolet said...

have you all ever heard the story of the golem? a rabbi once created a man of clay, and gave it life using magic. he had the good intentions, that the golem should protect the people of the ghetto. this worked well for a time. but then the golem got beyond itself and turned on the rabbi. it began to kill and destroy, no-one could control it anymore. and the rabbi could not un-make it, or destroy it.

clarence mitchell, the golem.

Cláudia said...

Gina, I can't answer your questions. Only someone who is familiar with the investigation can.

Ana, baceuse they cannot face the fact that whatever happened, the Mccanns neglected their children and neglected them at least since theyr holiday here began. Acknowledging that would mean making them responsible for whatever heppened. And they can never be responsible because the PJ are the gilty part. A PJ officer should have obviously been told to babysit for them while they satisfied their selfish needs.

librarising said...

Gina, there are timescales which other will tell you about. But cases do take a while to assemble, six months to a year is not unusual if it's a serious and complex case. generally we hear about the crime, then forget it, then hear about the arrests and charges, forget it again, and by the time the court case comes up many months have passed. It's just that we're not forgetting this case. Clarence won't let us.

I guess most people, like me, find him and his position morally revolting, as an offence against the process of justice, and so he above all keeps us watching and waiting for developments. But I don;t think there's any reason to feel that because the investigation is taking a while it's likely to get nowhere - quite the opposite.

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

I just read your question at the top and it is a very difficult one to answer.

If Clarence is simply putting into the public domain what the McCann's ask him to say then no, legally, I do not think he is doing anything wrong. On the other hand if he actively involved in seeking to pervert the course of justice knowinginly then he is. If, for example, he did leak the McCanns statements I think he could be in very serious trouble indeed. Also the PJ seem to take the attitude that his recent statements are interfering in the investigation at a crucial point. I think he is treading on very thin ice!

Then of course there is the civil issue, if he is damaging the reputation of certain officers with his comments and they take the view that is what he is doing, then of course they can sue him for libel for that. Whether they would bother to do so though is another matter. I think they look upon him, to an extent as a bit of a joke, but clearly are now getting increasingly fed up with him.

Joe said...

Librarising,

I like this excerpt from the article


..So they're surprised that the family should subject themselves to such close-up media attention.

When broadcasters, including Sky News, were given a few minutes with the McCanns for interviews in Brussels, the documentary team hovered, filming us filming the McCanns.

Its voyeuristic IMO to have TV crews around you and Madeline not even gone a year. Boy do they have the fame bug bad.

librarising said...

Joe, yes what a giddy whirl of lights and cameras they inhabit.

But isn;t it interesting the note of resentment in the reporter's voice? P'd off because Clarence had snatched away his news sweeties and given them to someone else instead.

Easy to forget how dependent the media are these days on wetnurses like Clarence. How I wish someone would be a journalist about this, stop sucking in the spin so greedily and go and knock on some doors.

LittleGreyCell said...

Gina,

I think this is such a complex case, with so many people involved and so many possible crimes committed, the PJ have to make sure they have all the evidence collated correctly for the charges.

Potentially there is:-

Child Neglect
Manslaughter/Murder
Perverting the Course of Justice
Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice
Aiding and Abetting
Obtaining Funds under False Pretences...
Not Wearing a Watch
Having a Lousy Taste in Friends
Endeavouring to Track Down Paedophiles through Tax Dodging

If you think about it, the dossiers for each relevant charge for each person will take some time to compile. I should imagine at the moment the PJ are in discussion with the European Public Prosecutor's Office, because there's an extra complication with the protagonists living outside of Portugal.

Ana said...

Cláudia,
Not babysit darling, only if it was a free service, this is too expensive for them, they prefer expensive bills with drinks instead spending money with the kids! You should have know that by now!

Gina said...

Claudia, I know what you are saying and all I was trying to say is that only one thinks I am gonc. People will have to form their own opinions about the PJ, there is nothing I can say to make them change their minds but I keep saying to them that if the McCanns are innocent until proven guilty then so are the PJ. Easy when you are on the fence, you see a broader picture. I still do not believe the PJ, as some have suggested, did not go along with the abduction theory just to save Portugals tourist trade, if they did, heaven help you all.

Libra, yes I know these things take time for various reasons and as you rightly pointed out we usually forget about the case until such time charges are made.

LittleGreyCell said...

Librarising,

Are the Chilblains related to Gerry's side of the family in Scotland?

Are Angela Merkel's breasts about to be seized by the PJ??

viv said...

Hiya Libra

Just to say I entirely agree with your above posts and have often argued this. It is a complex case over two jurisdictions with a lot of players, a lot of offending and a lot of lies and contradictions.

In a case such as this, where the police are not up against a Karen Matthews, but devious, clever and highly manipulative suspects they have to literally build a case against them by amassing as much evidence as possible and that is what they are doing. As you say the timescale is not at all lengthy when considering the sheer volume of work and its complexity. Other serious cases as you say can take 18 months to two years typically to get to trial and in the meantime we forget all about them, but yes, Clarence won't allow us to forget..a grave error on their behalf IMO. It has just caused the public to be very interested and become more convinced with every fantastic proclamation, that they are in fact guilty, no doubt exactly the opposite to what was intended. There are some very unleastic sets of beliefs going on with the McCanns and Clarence Mitchell as to their ability to con and manipulate the general public.

LittleGreyCell said...

Ultraviolet,

How about Clarence Mitchell the gomel?

(Translation: one who experiences a dangerous experience)

Gina said...

LCG yes I see what you are saying. I had a bit of knowledge what was going down in the Shannon case before it broke, they were onto allsort at the same time and had to pick the right time to act. Guess this is no different really

librarising said...

LGC, I hope the PJ can forgive Ms Merkel, who had obviously simply forgotten to put on her blouse before leaving for the opera. Clarence however has no-one but himself to blame for his chilblains.

Joe said...

I do believe that ignorance is not admissible in law. So anything Mitchell states could be used against him unless he has corroborative proof what he states is true. Just because he may dote one every word of his master and Mistress, G&K, and believes them, it does not let him off the hook, as this is Police investigation and he should remember that. It is not just PR banter that he utters for 2 minor celebrities but serious legal issues.

Ana said...

Hya Viv,

How are you?
You said:
«Then of course there is the civil issue, if he is damaging the reputation of certain officers with his comments and they take the view that is what he is doing, then of course they can sue him for libel for that. Whether they would bother to do so though is another matter. I think they look upon him, to an extent as a bit of a joke, but clearly are now getting increasingly fed up with him.»

You are quite right, for what I have heard, this is exactly the reason for them to think about a sue process,"damaging the reputation"

LittleGreyCell said...

Hi Viv,

Regarding the culpability of Clarence, if a dodgy accountant was giving dodgy advice to a client, he would be found to be dodgy, presumably.

Clearly Clarence has been pulling the strings - so do you know how much would this need to be proved in a court of law?

Is he not aiding and abetting, should the McCanns be found to be guilty of various crimes?

LittleGreyCell said...

Librarising,

See how easy it is to forget things?

Did she have any small children at home, too?

librarising said...

LGC, Clarence pulling strings? Do you mean the ones his mum sewed onto his gloves and threaded through his sleeves?

LittleGreyCell said...

Librarising,

Well, he doesn't seem capable of pulling much else, does he? (Apart from the other one...)

librarising said...

LGC, blouses, children, bundleman's hair, trousers and general direction, it could happen to anyone.

LittleGreyCell said...

I'm off for a while now; will be back later (but not while Come Dine With Me's On - I'm hoping there's a tapas course tonight).

X

Joe said...

Libra,

As you say Journos, fighting over the McCanns and Mitch the ringmaster. What I find very distressing in all this is the the McCanns appear to have no modesty. Also the Press have given them the benefit of the doubt even some MEPs ,which of course is ok as they are not accused yet or charged, but if it was anybody from another social class people would not give them the time of day. The McCanns do not feel embarrassed at all in pushing themselves forward even before they are cleared or charged. It looks and feels tacky, showy almost like the circus it is, exploitation of themselves and Madeline.

librarising said...

LGC I would not venture to speculate on what Clarence could pull.

LittleGreyCell said...

Librarising,

I'll be thankful for that, then...

:)

librarising said...

Joe, it's a three-ring circus with elephants, clowns, jugglers and a freakshow.

librarising said...

LGC, indeed you should be grateful. I am fighting down several unattractive images...

Joe said...

Librarising,

We all know who the clown is.

Cláudia said...

You're right, Ana, why waste it on a babysitter if you can drink it?

Gina, the PJ had all the opportunities to follow the easy way out. They could treat it as an abduction (which they did for months). There are thousands of unsolved missing children cases all over the world. And I've never heard that any country has suffered anything because of that so that tourism industry excuse is pathetic. If the PJ wanted to frame anyone (as the morons from the other planet have implied), then Murat would be the perfect victim. The man had fingers pointed at him by the British press and by friends of the McCanns. Perfect scenario. Remember when some people from the McCann family were having a fit and saying that if there was any evidence it would have been planted by the PJ? If they could do it to the Mccanns it would be a lot easier to do that with Murat. And everybody would be happy because the case would be solved quickly. The PJ took the difficult path. The PJ persued what they think is the truth and in my opinion the McCanns never thought they would have the audacity to do it since they had so much support and so many people in high places. And I can tell you that that is exactly the reason why my people are proud of the PJ. And whatever happens with this case, many of us will never forget that many officers cancelled their holidays and forgot about their weekends to look for a little girl when her parents were too busy jogging, setting up a fund and giving interviews. Many of us will never forget that some of these men have been shamefully smeared in the gutter press, because of their looks, weight, eating habits and even had their families dragged to this story. Some of us will never forget and some of us will never shut up. And I am just one of those people.

librarising said...

Joe - and the lady contortionist.

librarising said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gina said...

Claudia, I totally agree believe it or not.

Off for a while now, speak later neigbour x

librarising said...

Claudia, yes Murat was an easy target for anyone wanting a patsy. and I have not forgotten the day when Clarence pushed Kate onto the front pages to point the finger at him. Ugh!

J J said...

Claudia
Couldn't agree more with what you said about PJ.
These are just people getting on with their job.
It can't have been easy for them, I would be spitting blood in their position.
Fingers crossed for Madeleine!

Cláudia said...

Gina, librarising and jj, thank you for your words.
That is exactly why my people will always be proud of what the PJ did whatever the outcome of this case is. Always.

viv said...

Hiya LGC

It is not really reasonable for me to comment upon what Clarence Mitchell has done to aid and abet offending or pervert the course of justice because I really do not know. You could only say if you were a police officer who had actually investigated him and his activities and knew what his state of knowledge and motivation for his behaviour actually was.

"Giving dodgy advice" is a bit vague, what criminal offence would he have committed? He is not even a professional person subject to professional rules of conduct (which is nothing to do with the police anyway although of course there can be an issue of a doctor or lawyer breaching both professional rules of conduct and committing a criminal offence - McCanns! ). He (Clarence) just likes to pose as though he is a lawyer, but he is not!

I think he would argue he has acted innocently, merely putting the McCanns press releases out. I have already said he is treading on thin ice, and I think it is quite possible the police will be looking at his own conduct and whether in fact he has sought to aid and abet fraud, or pervert the course of justice by his manipulative conduct. He certainly does appear to get far too heavily involved and acts very unwisely, forgetting what his job actually is. It seems to have become a very personal matter to him where he considers it is his job to actually defend the McCanns by whatever means and he is not a qualified lawyer who would probably go about matters in a far more circumspect, confidential and reasonable way. The thing is he does seem to think he has a legal role and that is very unwise.

Ana said...

Cláudia,

Yes, this exactly how the people of our country thinks about the case.Couldn´t say that better!

Cláudia said...

Ana, well, I think we know a bit about what our own think and say everyday. :-) Thank you.

marga said...

Cláudia,
(17:03)
great post!
___________
Gina, you said:
Regards the PJ, well what can I say if Amaral is a bad cop that does not mean all the rest are.
17 April 2008 16:56

Then answering to Cláudia excellent post here:
Claudia, I totally agree believe it or not.

Thursday, 17 April 2008 17:06:00 o'clock BST

_____

My question: Do you believe Amaral is a bad cop? Why?! Why not?

Thanks!

viv said...

Gosh Libra I had forgotten about that. Yes there was a big spread in the DE wasn't there Kate thinks Murat has a case to answer. That certainly is an example of where the spin of Clarence moves into the realms of potentially seeking to pervert the course of justice.

There is always the problem of actually proving he knew that was false and he actually intended by his actions to interfere with the proper administration of justice. A bit of a tough one, but it clearly cannot be ruled out.

Again, I suspect he would plaintively cry, well that was what Kate said and I was just passing it onto the press in accordance with my role!

ultraviolet said...

is there a press black-out, there is no news in any of the main newspapers today.

viv said...

Hiya Ultra

The press do get very nervy at this stage in a criminal case!

It is a very good sign:-)


Viv x

Cláudia said...

Thanks, Marga.

Ultraviolet, maybe if there were any news they would have to print that the PJ is going to sue CM and they may be not allowed to say that so better not say anything.

librarising said...

Viv, I don;t always see this case as others do, and am quite open-minded about what actually happened to madeleine, as I think we all ought to try to be - but the spectacle of one suspect using money power and influence to get onto the front pages and smear the name of another was something I found quite revolting.

viv said...

Hiya Libra

Yes I take your point and it is a good one, morally as well as legally it was dreadful for Kate McCann to so publically seek to implicate what certainly appears to be a completely innocent man. He was made an Arguido on the basis of the evidence of her friends and the McCanns themselves ultimately took the leading role as arguidos, it was a dreadful piece of behaviour on the part of Kate McCann to try and put him back in the front line instead of herself!

Viv x

Gina said...

Marga, You have taken my post from the other side a little out of context if you don't mind me saying. As you know they are very critical of the PJ on there and have pointed out that Amaral and others are awaiting trial. I made the point that as they say the McCanns are innocent until proven guilty, then the same should be applied to the PJ- Went on to say if Amaral is a bad cop (meaning been proved guilty at a trial) that does not mean that all cops are bad.

So to answer your question, IMO he is a good cop unless he is proven to be a bad cop, if you see what I mean.

marga said...

Cláudia, have heard that criminal reporter Brunt, I suppose is here in PDL. At the beginning he was all pro Mc cann. i remember that piece of news with the retired Br detective and on that programme some distances and facts were a bit distorted to serve their abduction theory and to believe they didn't neglect the children.

Then, it seemed to me he was turning his opinion. And now? If it is true he is there I'm curious about his perspective at this time after so many things have happened in this case...

SueB said...

Hi Viv, everybody

Just posted on the 3As -

* * * *
You may have noticed the silence from Metodo3...

Please check your news sources regularly, something is coming out before the end of this week!

* * * *

What could it be...?!

Cláudia said...

Marga, Brunt changes his opinions as often I as i change my underwear: everyday. He is a pathetic excuse for a journalist. But I think it's good if he really is here. The weather will be great soon and he can get a tan, swim a bit and taste great food.

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv,

Thanks for your reply to my question...what a shame that Conspiracy to Act in a Dodgy Manner isn't yet a criminal offence!

The incidence that Librarising raised - fixing it for Kate to finger Murat - is the kind of thing I'm thinking of. Obstructing Justice? Perverting the Course of?

There was a rumour that it was he who alerted the McCanns to the fact that their calls were being monitored by the police; this IS an offence, I believe, but I don't suppose anyone can prove that was what happened.

I only have a small knowledge of media law, but there's something niggling me about his involvement from a legal viewpoint...

LittleGreyCell said...

Claudia,

How often do you suppose Clarrie changes his underwear these days??

:)

Ana said...

Finaly!

'Portuguese police should sue McCann's official spokesman', claims newspaper

Daily Mail

irina said...

Hello everybody, we all so egger to here the news. We might...
But here are my thoughts:


PJ have stated that they will stay for a month if interrogations will not bring result within a week.
They did not stay for a month.....

The analysis and working out the best tactics is not a quick process.... And PJ do not have to hurry either (despite McCanns believe, secrecy and status can stay for much longer).
So they are working....

McCann clan is working as well... for that big of a money...who would not?

But the best they can do is to get their lawyers to negotiate which country they should serve the sentence....


Interesting as well: the latest leek showed one thing that is of interest to the PJ - whoever was McCann’s "agent" that produced the leek - it knows about McCanns involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance - another thread for PJ to follow, another witness....

Cláudia said...

Thanks, Ana! :-)

LGC, after yesterday, probably every hour or so! ;-)

viv said...

Hiya LGC

I was not concerning myself with media law, which I know very little about, I was purely concentrating on criminal law which is where we deal with criminal offences:-)

I think that is the problem to a large extent people dont like Clarence's behaviour but when you ask the question in what way has he breached the criminal law and how will you provide evidence of that, reality has to bite. He will probably walk away...but maybe not. The police have to ask would further investigation in detail of him with all the expense involved be in the interests of justice? I reckon they would probably say it is not justified, justice demands that Kate and Gerry and probably those who were directly involved in the substantive offence should be investigated and prosecuted. Clarence did not harm Madeleine in actual fact, but he has sought to deny her justice. No doubt about that, certainly from a moral point of view. The law is precise rational and has to look at costs and whether the costs justify the likelihood of a successful prosecution. I am not saying Clarence will get away with but I think that is likely. Much depends on what evidence the police have against him, how conclusive or inconclusive it is!


Viv x

marga said...

Gina,
yes, now I do understand your point. It seemed to me you were contradicting yourself.

But don't forget this case against GA and the other Pjs are only going to take place because there were too many hidden interests (not in PT)so that all the publicity against torture and so on, could also help in this case.

But as you say, he is a good cop until trial and even if he is found guilty of what he is charged with, one thing will be always forever associated to him.And that is the way and the courage he had to against all odds make the parents arguidos.

I'm sure he was/is only interested in the truth about what happened to the little innocent girl.

marga said...

Cláudia,
_________
Marga, Brunt changes his opinions as often I as i change my underwear: everyday.

LOL

Cláudia said...

Marga, ;-)
And I hope he starts wearing brown more!

Gina said...

Marga, no problem. I was posting on both blogs at the same time which is confusing to say the least, but the good thing is my views are the same on both.

By the way I left you a bath cleaning tip several days ago, but you had gone. I will have to put few more on just to reassure you all I am me and I haven't lost my way- When I emailed viv to join I thought she would deny acces because of my joking about and going off topic for no reason, but no, she was cool with that so here I am, except for here I am not at the moment because in the middle of cooking dinner and burned a saucepan yesterday by trying to blog and cook. Only got a few saucepan left so see you all later

librarising said...

- as I posted earlier, looks like Sky's noses are out of joint because they were fenced out of access to the starry duo by the ITV documentary crew during the Brussels visit. Maybe Clarence had given (sold) ITV an exclusive. I shouldn't imagine they've taken up a position at all in regard to the story itself - and, to be fair to them, so they shouldn't.

librarising said...

... what I mean is, the media on the whole will happily print what PR men feed them, angles included, because PR men are their main source of stories, and stories are what they are paid to provide. But if a PR man fences them out and they think that's not fair, they might punish him by taking up other angles. Journalists don't on the whole impress me as a particularly principled bunch.

marga said...

Thanks Gina for the explanation:-)

No, i didn't see your tipp.But it must be a relly good one. After all I do have more than 3 bathrooms :-))

Cláudia,

NO more BROWN.
Black (out) would be nice!

This is from the article Ana posted in the DM
Clarence....
"on the very day Kate and Gerry were making positive headlines in Europe."

That says it all!
Have to cook dinner,too.

viv said...

hey gina are you implying I can be cool with people. Will have to do something about that!

I have a reputation to maintain

Vile Viv :-)(The Vile One)

SwedishMum said...

Evening all!

SueB, how nice to see you again. I'm also curious what that might be about.

Gina, glad to find out that you're not Amaral - I find it hard to picture you as him.

Nancy/Viv, I read your speculations (on the other thread) on what might have happened that fateful night and if it turns out that there was no abductor I think both your scenarios seem credible. If the McCanns are involved in Madeleine's disappearance, I'm quite sure there was an accident. I find it very, very hard to believe it was something more sinister.

Cláudia said...

Hello, Swedish Mum! Great to see you! :-)
Come on now, we all know that Gina cannot be Amaral. Alsabella is Amaral! :-)

SwedishMum said...

Claudia, good to see you. I was beginning to wonder if you were all avoiding me.

Anything new besides the fact that Alsabella is Amaral (which was news for me, but I'll have to take your word for it :-))?

Btw, I havent' heard about your coffe machine lately. I hope it isn't broken.

Cláudia said...

Oh no, Swedish Mum! I was not ignoring you at all. Would never do that. And my coffee machine is working wonderfully! :-)
You didn't know? Yep, Alsabella is Amaral and I am Paulo Pereira Cristóvão! ;-) Oh, and the 'leak' came from me! Which in fact offended me a bit because I'm still a bit young to start leaking! :-))))

SwedishMum said...

I would think so!!! :-)))

Cláudia said...

Swedish Mum, ;-)

Ana said...

Cláudia,

But, wait a minute there, if Alsabella is Gonçalo Amaral and Alsabella is Ana/Marga/Marla/Nanda, you know names with a lot of A´s.I guess I am Gonçalo Amaral too!lool


Off now,see you all maybe later!

Cláudia said...

Ana, and what about me? I also have two a's in my name. I also want to be Gonçalo Amaral! I have that right. ;-)
See you later, I hope! :-)

viv said...

Oh my gosh so it is true then Alsabella is Goncalo Amaral, just like Rosie said one can tell this because there are lots of a's in both Alsabella and Amaral, thus proving it for a conclusive fact.

I feel utterly deceived and have to say Goncalo clearly has an extremely feminine side to him:-)

Well tee hee as they would say:-)

Cláudia said...

Viv, darling, and in spite of that big moustache he also sounds extremely feminine on the phone! lololol

viv said...

Claudia

You have the right to be Goncalo Amaral because you have the requisite a's in your name?

Having seen a pic of you I am amazed you wish to stand on your strict legal rights!!

bath theory said...

Hi all
Many politicians and people in status positions use words to deceive. For instance, the West is never a terrorist in their eyes, we have never seemingly invaded , stolen land and resources nor subverted local culture and abused or enslaved indigenous populations. Once you see through such talk ( ie blatant lies) you can easily see how the McCann's forged a close bond with a government pr person ie Clarence.

Government spend so much energy and money trying to suppress facts and words that don't suit them. Forget reality what mostly matters to them is power and propaganda and indeed censorship.

Once fully understood the reality of what probably happened to poor defenceless Madeleine is even clearer in my opinion.

Cláudia said...

Viv, :-)))))

Ana said...

Cláudia,

Maybe you are Mrs Amarala.Lol

Bye and Beijinhos!

Cláudia said...

Mrs Amarala? lololololol
Well, I've always had a thing for older men... ;-)
Beijinhos, Ana! See you later. :-)

bath theory said...

Just hearing the name Rosie makes me chuckle, if not nauseus. She is a symbol for me as she never denied being a relative of the couple and as such has a vested interest in promoting any discussion/debate about their possible involvement. Nice to be away from intolerance of that sort.

Cláudia said...

Bath theory, that's giving it too much importance.

bath theory said...

How old is old for you Claudia?

:)

Cláudia said...

Well, 20 years older than me is a bit too much, bath theory. But you never know! :-)

viv said...

Could this be love developing right here on my blog?

I may have to devote a new thread to it:-)


Someone mentioned earlier up the thread and confess have not read all, that there is a press blackout. I can understand the police not wanting speculation in the press right now but what happened to one who does not just like speculate but to actually threaten, the gloves are off, did he run off out the ring, when he got a clearer view of his opponent?

bath theory said...

In my early 40's and I still have a heart full of idealism that child abusers and worse are able to be put away in our world. Sadly not always the case.

ratonthebeam said...

I am really Mr Ribeiro. My basis for making this claim is that both of our names begin with the letter R.

Cláudia said...

Viv, lololol
As for the gloves are off thing and as for the silence, I guess he must still be in the bathroom.

bath theory said...

I think you may be right Viv about the news blackout.. we will see

Cláudia said...

Hello, Rat or should I say; Olá, senhor Ribeiro. Como vai? :-)

Cláudia said...

Oh, I heard that CM is going to double sue the PJ for "being mean to me" and "making me look more stupid than usual".

ratonthebeam said...

excelente, obrigada! e voce?

ratonthebeam said...

Claudia, Christabel says that Snr Amaral is divorced. Here's your big chance!!! :-)

Cláudia said...

Muito bem, senhor Ribeiro! Obrigada! :-) O CM é muito estúpido, não é?


Before Viv kills me:

Very well, Mr Ribeiro.
Thank you. CM is really stupid, isn't he?

Cláudia said...

Oh rat, really? My life finally makes sense now! ;-)
Do you think I'll have to fight her for him? How does she know he's divorced? Do you think she's stalking him? ;-)

nancy said...

Gina - bit off topic here!

Glad your back - nice to read you today - see you are having high winds the same as where I am - tomorrow they say it will rain, but we really need about a week of non-stop rain in Spain - the farmers are complaining that their fruit trees are doing very badly!

I had to laugh about your saucepans - you sound about as good in the kitchen as me! I even manage to burn pizza!! Luckily for my husband it's cheap to eat out in Spain and I can't do much harm to a bottle of red!!

ratonthebeam said...

Hey, I just read the Mail link that Mr Amaral - sorry, Ana - posted, and it is most interesting. Clarence may well have his gloves off, but now he is "not going to be drawn into a running argument." (Big Girl's Blouse!!!)

Lots of very disparaging comments, including a couple of tongue-in-cheek ones about Clarence being a person of high moral standing.

And this article refers to the McCanns not once - but TWICE - as "Mr and Mrs McCann".

What's that all about????? Not "Kate and Gerry" anymore? Or "Drs McCann?" I'm still trying to work out, is this to paint them as being nearer to the "common person in the street who isn't a doctor", or is it being deliberately disrespectful. (I don't think it's anything more sinister than that, so let's not get carried away, folks!)

nancy said...

Swedish Mum

I saw your earlier post thanks. I went on Joana-Morais blog and voted on what people think happened to Madeleine - lots of options. I plumped for accident and it seems that 40% of people voted that, which is a good indication of what probably happened in my opinion. Very few voted for the abduction theory!

I must admit that at one time I thought it was a scam to make money, and that Madeleine was safe somewhere and the parents knew where, but forensic evidence of course overrules that theory

Let's hope it will not be too long before we all know the exact truth of what happened to poor Madeleine!

ratonthebeam said...

She maybe got fed up stalking Robert Murat :-)

bath theory said...

The point about my initial statement re the way government's use words to cling onto power etc is not all doom becuase these people who deceive to cling to power get themselves into trouble and then the ability to do things that the public really can come into play, WHY? because they are in trouble and are forced to do such things to cling to it.

So maybe Mr Brown will draw the curtains and allow a legal challenge to occur against the McCann's because he knows he is so unpopular and he knows a huge majority of the public want these two to experience the heat of the courtroom. Maybe Clarence knows this is the case and hence the general talk about Clarence jumping ship? Any views?

nancy said...

I wonder how much work at the hospital Gerry manages to put in these days with all the globetrotting he and Kate do? I suppose Kate doesn't need to work now that they are celebrities. Nice work if you can get it!

I notice that when being photographed they put on their chameleon act, looking tragic when doing tv interviews and then alternately looking quite content in magazines and on the way to meetings etc. Good practise for their coming television appearance of course! 30th April, I can't wait!!

Justice for Madeleine!

See you all tomorrow!

Cláudia said...

Rat, you may be right. I think she wants him and she wants him bad! :-)

Ana said...

If the christalete one wants me, she doesn’t need to stalk me anymore! Here I am, more beautiful than ever, after eating my 2 hours dinner! And I’m feeling GOOD!!

Cláudia said...

Christalete! lolololol
Hello, Gonçalo! Looking good tonight!
I hope you sue their asses! All of them! :-)
Luv ya, hun!

ratonthebeam said...

Go Gonçalo! You rock!

viv said...

Hiya Baththeory

I have so busy lately on other things I have not seen any rumour of Clarence jumping ship. Is there anything substantive to inform this view?

I would just say, I think, I have always queried his motives in getting involved in all of this. We certainly had a lot of information around September time that no one else actually wanted the job of being PR for the McCanns in the same way there were no detective agencies and PR agencies that wanted to act for him, particularly in Portugal and UK. Getting involved in something that smells intrinsically bad, can have a devastating impact on reputation and business success and clearly McCann job was not going to last for ever.

It was very odd the way he was working for government, Justine McGuiness dropped them like a bag of hot coals as soon as they were made arguidos/she had been to the police station and heard the evidence, and he immediately jumped into her shoes.

The idea has floated across my mind more than once, was he really acting for the McCanns? I have to say I have dismissed this idea as fanciful because if there is government interference in a criminal case it can smack of unfair entrapment or otherwise attempts to interfere in the due administration of justice.

I think, on balance, in some way, Clarence had made himself unpopular in Whitehall circles and they wanted him out. Maybe had did disclose confidential information to the McCanns as has been alleged, e.g. that police were bugging phone and email and they should watch out. After all, given the nature of his job, this is something he would have great understanding of. I also have to say it has crossed my mind more than once, that he finds Kate vulnerable and attractive and this is a lure to him. He no doubt does realise they are guilty but has a degree of sympathy for her being in a position of closeness and able to see, perhaps, just what she has had to endure.

The other thing that strikes me overwhelmingly with Clarence is that in many respects he does have a similar nature and character to Gerry McCann. He sees this as a complex and fascinating game he can play and thinks he is very clever and intrigue and misinformation, entertaining an unhealthy belief in his own abilities to pull this off.

Now, it seems to me he has suddenly gone quiet, I have not been reading because I am so busy, but people tell me the press plants have now fell silent. So, I have to ask myself, could it be, reality finally dawns for him? He realises that in spite of all his "hard work and effort" the McCanns are in fact going to be prosecuted. This I think could cause him to cast around looking for a way out because the end game of the McCanns being arrested and charged would be deeply humiliating to him. He has lost, he is hopeless, this is what it will say to him personally, I believe. He will want to turn the situation somehow to his own advantage and divorce himself from the McCanns before it is too late. A distinct possibility when considering his character and nature and how he always has to feel he is "winning".

Ana said...

You bet darling,I will!LOL
Tee hee...
Luv ya 2 hun!

viv said...

Oh la la la Ana, you have that sex bomb for an Avatar.

I LOVE GONCALO AMARAL

~Defender of little children and in a way, really rather sexy:-)

Cláudia said...

What a lovely moustache, Mr PJ! ;-)

Ana said...

Ratonthebeam,

How are you Ribeiro,oops Ratonthebeam?

viv said...

Claudia

I am thinking it is not just the fact of him being a PJ that attracts you, it is even more that you find the moustache very fetching, and so it is:-)

viv said...

But what of divine Dr Rebelo, is no one going to adopt him, as their avatar?

Ana said...

Viv,

Excuse me?! I am not Ana,I am Gonçalo ok?LOLOL

Cláudia,

Thank you hun,I love my moustache!

viv said...

Ratonthebeam

I think you rock too, darling

Waves to the Pros,I know they love it when I say darling xxx

viv said...

So Goncalo OK, I am so sorry, does that mean you are Alsabella too.

Ummm I am getting dreams and predictions, visions I have got you sussed there are two a's in Ana as well

tee hee

Ana said...

Of course I am Alsabella too!lol

Ana said...

But ok Viv, I am Ana as well !

Cláudia said...

Viv, you're right. It's not just the fact that he's a PJ. It's also about the moustache.
Gonçalo, I love the things you do with it, darling! :-)

Margarida said...

Cough, cough, cough...

Claudia, what can he do with his "pincel"... ups, sorry, moustache???

By the way, I have 3 A's in my name, hey!

PS: Pincel = painting brush

Cláudia said...

Well, well, well, Margarida, I think you're getting too personal, hun! :-)

hope4truth said...

Thanks Viv

Just checking it works xxx

Ana said...

Oh dear oh dear , stop talking about my moustache because My cheeks are getting stained!

Cláudia said...

Gonçalo, the world needs to know the wonders you and your moustache perform...

viv said...

Oh Hiya Hope

You made it this time!

I think you just caught us girls having a naughty moment fantacising about Goncalo who is Alsabella who is Ana and his lovely moustache-)

Luv Viv x

viv said...

Claudia

~Will you stop it I need to go do some serious work but am preferring your lovely sense of humour

no hang on a minute you are not joking are you, you are actually telling us Goncalo performs wonder on you with his moustache

as a certain person would habitually say

you could not make this up..looooooool (she loves that, darling)

luv ya luv ya luv ya

hope4truth said...

Hello Viv

Yes made it this time (I thought it was something I had said when I could not post LOL)...

Would the real Goncalo please stand up LOL...

So who fancies him then???

Hello Ana and Claudia xxx

obsessed said...

Hello
Thank you for inviting me to join the blog.
I have been reading and enjoying it for a long time now.

Ana said...

And I think my belly is sexy too!

viv said...

Hiya Hope

Your invite was there for a few days and I just thought you got fed up with us.

We all love Goncalo x and he knows it and he is on this blog because he knows we love him and we need him he is luvverly x He is a big sexy PJ xxxxxx

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