14 Apr 2008

TRAGIC CHILD HOMICIDE DATA

Adorable little Maddie feeds her baby sisterxxxxx
HELP STOP CHILD ABUSE. FULL STOP. REPORT CHILD ABUSE IMMEDIATELY. YOU MAY BE SAVING A CHILD'S LIFE AND WILL DEFINITELY BE SAVING THEM FROM MISERY. ABUSIVE BEHAVIOUR BY PARENTS IS A RISK FACTOR FOR MORE SERIOUS ABUSE. PARENTS DO NOT JUST DO IT WHEN THEY ARE ON HOLIDAY. SUPPORT THE NSPCC. READ THEIR WEBPAGE. MAKE A DONATION. USE YOUR COMMON SENSE ABOUT WHAT ABUSE AND NEGLECT MEAN. ASK YOURSELF ONE SIMPLE QUESTION DOES THAT CHILD DESERVE TO BE TREATED THAT WAY? IF THE ANSWER IS NO REPORT THE ABUSER.

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/




Child homicides
Key child protection statistics (December 2007)
The statements in this section are based on Home Office statistics on the number of homicides of children aged under 16 recorded by the police in England and Wales together with some input in the first paragraphs from me.
The statistics below demonstrate just how often children are killed by the parents, more often than in any other case and children under five are at highest risk.
It is heartbreaking to think that in the UK every 10 days another tot will be killed by their parents.
As our poster Swedishmum has told us of the tragic killing of Engla, ten years, by a paedophile we remember the serious risk children are also at from such people. Whilst these cases are more rare it does not make them any less of a terrible tragedy for children.
What can we do to make children safer given the biggest risk they face is from their own parents? A terrible indictment on British Society, its morals, values and stance on the human rights of children..
The government should do far more in terms of educating the public to be better parents, encouraging friends and neighbours to report child abuse concerns as being predictive of greater risks of harm to children and track and monitor known child sex offenders, again clear in the knowledge that sexual abuse of children is a predictor of more serious abuse at some future stage as tragically shown in the killing of Engla in Sweden and Whiting and Huntley for example in the UK. We should be concentrating all our efforts to protect vulnerable little people who are our future and need to grow up without the trauma of abuse or worse still, being prevented from growing up at all. It is a national tragedy and we should all play a part to try and make childrens lives safer and happier.

The term 'homicide' covers the offences of murder, manslaughter and infanticide. Murder and manslaughter are common law offences, which have never been defined by statute, although they have been modified by statute.
Murder means where the perpertrator actually intended to kill or cause serious harm and where it can be proved that was his/her intention at the time of the killing by a careful consideration of the accused's state of mind. This will be considered by assessment of the offender himself and all other relevant evidence e.g. other witnesses, behaviour of the accused both before, since and at the relevant time. Many offenders who commit murder are found to be suffering from personality disorder (e.g. Psychopathy/Anti-Social Personality Disorder or less frequently Narcissism - The Yorkshire Ripper). This means they lack insight into their thoughts and actions and have no empathy for others.
The sentence in UK for murder is mandatory - life, although a judge can set the minimum period which must be served before the person can be consider for release on lifetime licence on parole. This is an important feature of a murder conviction, it actually stays with the person for life and they can be recalled to prison if they misbehave. A typical sentence actually served for murder is 14 years but in serious cases involving a very dangerous offender who it is considered would always pose a risk of serious harm to the public/their offence is so repugnant, an offender who killed a child or a policeman for example, the time served can be much longer and even for the rest of the offender's life in exceptionally serious cases, e.g. Paedophiles Whiting and Huntley, Brady and Hindley, Shipman, The Wests
Manslaugher means the perpretrator was reckless or negligent as to whether death may result from their actions.
Viv.

A particular category is 'Section 2' manslaughter which refers to the provisions of section 2 of the Homicide Act 1957, which allowed for the defence of diminished responsibility. The Infanticide Act of 1922 (amended 1938) created the offence of infanticide in the case of a woman who caused the death of a child under 12 months while "the balance of her mind was disturbed by reason of her not having fully recovered from the effects of giving birth to the child or by reason of the effect of lactation consequent upon the birth of the child"

The data on child homicides published by the Home Office are given for the year in which the police initially recorded the offence as homicide. This is not necessarily the year in which the incident took place, or the year in which any court decision was made. The Home Office data refer to the position as at 9 October 2006, when recording closed down for the purpose of analysis. Subsequent court hearings or other information received will change the figures given. Where the police initially recorded an offence as homicide, it remains so classified unless the police or the courts decide later that no homicide took place.


On average, every week in England and Wales one to two children are killed at the hands of another person 1 2 .

Each week at least one child dies from cruelty 3 .

On average, 67 children in England and Wales are killed at the hands of another person every year 1 2 .

In 2005/2006, 55 children were killed at the hands of another person in England and Wales 4 .
Infants aged under one are more at risk of being killed at the hands of another person than any age group of child under 18 in England and Wales 1 5 6 .

Almost two thirds of children killed at the hands of another person in England and Wales are aged under five 1 7

Every ten days in England and Wales one child is killed at the hands of their parent 8 9 .

"Killings of children by a natural parent are committed in roughly equal proportions by mothers (47%) and fathers (53%), but that where the child is killed by someone other than a parent, males strongly predominate"

"The proportion of child homicides in which the perpetrator is a parent is exceptionally high among infants". For example between 1995 and 1999 in England and Wales, 80% of homicide victims under one year old were killed by a parent

The proportion of child homicides 16 where a parent is the principal suspect falls as children get older. For homicides of children aged under five the proportion of cases where a parent was the principal suspect was over 70%; for homicides of children aged 14 or 15 it was a quarter or fewer 17 .
In half (52%) of all cases of children killed at the hands of another person, the parent is the principal suspect 10 .

In 2005/2006 in England and Wales, 24 children were killed at the hands of their parents 11 .

In a study into the relationship between child deaths and child maltreatment, 63% of the paediatricians sampled had some experience of suspicious child death. Of these, the most commonly cited alerting factor was inconsistent accounts (such as parents or carers changing their story), followed by unusual bruising, and the death of another child in the family.May-Chahal et al. (2004) The relationship between child death and child maltreatment: a research study on the attribution of cause of death in hospital settings. London: NSPCC.

In 2005/2006 in England and Wales parents were the principal suspect in 24 child homicide cases (44% of all cases).

A further 13 children (24% of all cases) were the victim of suspects known to them (i.e. other family member, friend or acquaintance).

12 children (22% of all cases) were the victim of strangers 13 .

As of October 2006, there were no suspects for 6 (11%) of the victims.Coleman, K. et al (2007)


On average, 11 children per year in England and Wales are killed at the hands of strangers 12 13 14 . This equates to an annual average of 16% of all cases of children killed at the hands of another person 14

Footnotes
1. The reference to 'killed at the hands of another person' is based on Home Office statistics on the number of homicides of children aged under 16 recorded by the police in England and Wales. Reducing homicide: a review of the possibilities. London: Home Office. p.iii).
6. In five out of seven years (1997/98 to 2003/04) the homicide rate for under one year olds has been the highest of any single year age band.
7. This is a five year average of 63% of all child homicides based on figures from 2001/02 to 2005/06. (Coleman, K. et al (2007) Homicides, firearms offences and intimate violence 2005/2006: supplementary volume 1 to Crime in England and Wales 2005/2006. London: Home Office. Table 1.07).
8. The reference to 'killed at the hands of their parent' is based on Home Office statistics on the number of homicides of children aged under 16 recorded by the police in England and Wales.
9. Home Office child homicide statistics record the relationship of the victim to the principal suspect. The figures quoted here are for child homicides where the principal suspect is a biological parent, step parent, adopted parent of the victim or the resident or non resident partner of the victim's parent. (Coleman, K. et al (2007) Homicides, firearms offences and intimate violence 2005/2006: supplementary volume 1 to Crime in England and Wales 2005/2006. London: Home Office) . The definition of 'parent' was established through private correspondence with David Povey at the Home Office.
10. This is a five year average of 35 child homicides per year where the parent is the principal suspect, or 52% of all child homicides based on figures from 2001/02 to 2005/06. (Coleman, K. et al (2007) Homicides, firearms offences and intimate violence 2005/2006: supplementary volume 1 to Crime in England and Wales 2005/2006. London: Home Office. Table 1.04) .
11. The reference to 'killed at the hands of their parents' is based on Home Office statistics on the number of homicides of children aged under 16 recorded by the police in England and Wales.
12. The reference to 'killed at the hands of strangers' is based on Home Office statistics on the number of homicides of children aged under 16 recorded by the police in England and Wales.
13. Home Office homicide data for 'strangers' as the principal suspect includes cases where the suspect is identified but there is insufficient information to determine the relationship to the victim.(Coleman, K. et al (2007) Homicides, firearms offences and intimate violence 2005/2006: supplementary volume 1 to Crime in England and Wales 2005/2006. London: Home Office. Table 1.04).
14. The figure quoted here is a five year average based on figures from 2001/02 to 2005/06. (Coleman, K. et al (2007) Homicides, firearms offences and intimate violence 2005/2006: supplementary volume 1 to Crime in England and Wales 2005/2006. London: Home Office. Table 1.04).
15. Apart from parents, the other groups from which most killers of children were drawn were step-parents, 'other family' and 'friends or ex friends'.
16. Home Office data on the number of homicides of children recorded by the police in England and Wales are for children aged under 16.17. These figures are based on a five year total from 1999/00 to 2003/04.

331 comments:

1 – 200 of 331   Newer›   Newest»
leigh3 said...

Ace post. The NSPCC is the oldest child protection agency in the UK.
They know reality, not the fiction of adults excusing child neglect and abuse.

Adults like the McCanns saying it's a 'mistake'. Adults like their expensive PR Clarence Mitchell claiming their checks in Portugal were better than the baby listening service. There was no 'baby listening service' at the McCanns holiday resort. None.

Adults like the McCanns defence lawyers saying their behaviour was 'within the bounds of responsible' parenting.

It wasn't, by UK law, and custom. That's why they won't go back to Portugal, and seek to manipulate UK public opinion...unless of course there are more serious criminal offences, as the ongoing police investigation continues to pursue.

Child neglect is a serious crime; leaving sleeping infants alone night after night in a hotel room is child neglect. That's what McCanns and some of their holiday friends did in Portugal.

The McCanns have not been charged with their self-confessed child neglect because police suspect them of something much worse. They are official suspects - arguidos - in the 'disappearance' of Madeleine Beth McCann whose cries were heard by neighbours, but not by her parents, who were at the bar with their pals, night after night.

P.S. Viv. I know the NSPCC quite well :-)

viv said...

Hi Leigh

The case below from 2007 sounds quite chillingly familiar, the parents ignored the child's cries for help after giving her an overdose and the woman's attorney was trying to pin the blame somewhere else.. the "focus" should be on why the child was prescribed the medication. Note the word intentionally, hence a murder rap..she was lying on the floor holding a teddy bear. It really does break your heart. Was little Madeleine holding Cuddlecat? The child had been sick...did this give O'Brien some ideas? as you know I think in a panic the McCanns called him around, or maybe he heard the melee and went around.. he is an Accident and Emergency Consultant and he then got dragged in.

A lot of people think Madeleine may have died on the night of 2 May when it is reported Kate was loud and out of control. She had many bruises which certainly look like domestic violence to me and I have met more battered wives than I care to remember. If that is the case...it looks more like Gerry in a drunken rage. If it was Kate, I think it was on 3 May and she overdosed Madeleine fearful of her waking up and then getting another battering off Gerry. As I posted yesterday, we can just imagine what that man would be like when he has been pouring the drinks down..disinhibitor makes violent and aggressive people more violent and aggressive. More violent crime related to alcohol than anything else. Almost all women who suffer domestic violence will tell their husbands heavily abuse alcohol or drugs or both. Alcohol most common. Those who use the lethal combination of alcohol and cocaine inflict are particularly aggressive and dangerous. I once spoke to a doctor's son who used cocaine and he said his dad had told him that was the best drug to use! Another offender I worked with had a heart attack, aged 28 years due to cocaine and also suffered from paranoid delusions and seriously aggressive and violent behaviour. Strange how Gerry is a heart specialist and yet drinks heavily before he even goes out to...drink even more heavily. Is all the jogging and tennis to try and counter the serious effects his own substance misuse will have on his heart?

What is the big secret the group as a whole are covering up, apart from the obvious? Is there another big secret as Stalker claimed or was he just trying to throw the public?

The neglect of these tiny tots whilst they went and got quite literally wrecked is very serious. The fact they did not get prosecuted for it speaks volumes. The police knew they were looking at far worse than that. They must have knew they were looking for Madeleine's body to bring those specialists blood and cadaver dogs all the way from the UK and we (British Police) must have thought so too!

-------

South Shore Parents Charged With Killing Daughter
WEYMOUTH (WBZ) ― Prosecutors say a husband and wife in Hull ignored their four-year-old daughter's cries for help after intentionally giving her an overdose of medication that ended up killing her.

Carolyn and Michael Riley were arrested Monday on murder charges. They were arraigned Tuesday in Hingham District Court and held without bail.

Prosecutors say 4-year-old Rebecca Riley was taking prescribed drugs for bi-polar disorder and ADHD.

Police were called to the Rileys' home in Hull back on December 13 and when they arrived they found Rebecca dead on the floor of her parents' bedroom. In a court affidavit describing the scene, investigators say she was curled up on newspapers beside her parents bed holding a teddy bear. The court paper quotes witnesses who claim Michael Riley angrily refused to allow her into the bed while she was sick.

Since then, an investigation began and the Rileys moved to Weymouth. The state medical examiner and prosecutors eventually ruled the overdose was intentional and the couple was charged with first-degree murder Monday.

As they were being led into court Tuesday morning, a reporter asked Michael Riley if he did it.

"No I didn't. I miss my daughter. I love her," Riley said.

But prosecutors say the parents were warned not to mix the medications with cold medicine, which they allegedly did in this case. The affidavit released in court also claimed one of the prescriptions should have had 75 pills left in the bottle on December 13, but investigators only found 7.

Michael Bourbeau, Carolyn Riley's attorney, said the focus should be on the adult medications that were prescribed for such a young child.

"What certainly gives me concern at this stage is how a child of two-and-a-half years old could be diagnosed and prescribed medications of this nature that could put her at risk," he said.

The Rileys have two other children - an 11-year-old boy and a 6-year-old girl. They were both removed from the home after Rebecca's death. They are both in a foster home. According to the DSS, Carolyn has a 13-year-old girl from a previous relationship who was adopted years ago.

The Department of Social Services tells WBZ that Michael Riley is also under investigation for sexually abusing a 13- year-old girl. Officials would not say if Carolyn's daughter was the victim in this case.

Because of that investigation he was supposed to be supervised whenever he was around his children but that was not the case on the day of Rebecca's death.

The Rileys' two other older children are now in state custody.

Carolyn Reilly's mother Valerie Berio said the couple did all they could to save their daughter.

"The charges are ridiculous," she said. "They have worked so hard to keep their family together for two years and they've never had a single break. Nobody on their side."

2345 said...

Viv,

A truly sickening read and statistics are far worse than I could ever imagine. Thanks for all the enlightening information and NSPCC is now on my list of charities.

I totally agree with yours and leigh's comments and am appalled and angry - poor little Madeleine.

But for people like you many facts in this sordid case would never have seen the light of day - swept under the carpet to protect the parents.

This case is a timely reminder in that little has changed since officials turned their back on the sufferance inflicted in the Jersey Care Home. Have lessons been learned and redressed ? The behaviour in this case, the need to manipulate public opinion says 'no'. The reputations of adults is again at stake.

The public are no longer informed as to police progress in the Jersey case. They vowed to bring the guilty to justice and last news, weeks ago, was that Eddie & Keela had found more remains. Then silence ....... a coincidence or because of Madeleine's case ? coincidence ?

Gina said...

Good morning all,

I heard something today which I want to stress is not from someone I consider NOT to be a reliable scource, that the road is being dug up under police supervision at PDL. This person told me it was in the same place as road works the time Madeleine went missing. As this person was not in PDL at that time I do not know how they could know the place anyway, also if Portugal is anything like Spain it is not uncommon for the same place to be dug up on a regular basis because the repair to pipework they did previously needs repairing again. Therefore I do not know firstly if this is true or if it has anything to do with this case, but I as I have always said anything is possible I suppose.

Gina said...

Typo. I consider this NOT from a reliable scource. I really should read my comments before I hit the button !!

viv said...

Hiya Gina

I just made a typo too and addressed my post to Leigh instead of 2345 so I zapped it but here it is again, correctly addressed. I will have a look at your longer post and answer that separately.

Hiya 2345

If I have signed just one more person up to supporting NSPCC then it has been worthwhile, they do fantastic work including in the research field which is so important in aiding understanding and directing future policy to try and protect children better. Clearly the more we learn about the prevalence and seriousness of a problem the higher it moves up government priorities and the better we can understand the issues and causes so that we know what to be addressing.

As you know I do agree with you Gerry is a clear possibility but even if he did not actually do it, he is causative and very culpable. Women in this situation do turn to drink as a coping mechanism and he clearly would not have been setting a good example there. I really dislike heavy drinking having seen the disastrous impacts of it on both mental and physical health and human behaviour. People with an aggressive and abusive personality style will always select alcohol and cocaine as their substances of choice, the effects fit with their personality style.

This case epitomises many serious issues that Society as a whole needs to face and I hope that a conviction in this serious case will impact on serious reviews by government and policy change, including how we view and protect middle class parents. Attitudes need to change. We have so many children from middle class homes getting into crime and serious substance abuse because they were so poorly parented where they were more an accessory, than something genuinely loved and cared about.

I am sickened by the press attacks on Karen, even now she is in custody. Benefits scrounger, boozer, etc. No one would try to suggest she is a perfect parent but what of the McCanns far more serious conduct that also included being heavy boozers? What of the impact their behaviour may have had on Karen. We just cannot have this couple telling us their behaviour was right, that it was no more than a "mistake" or that cashing in, in the name of their child was right. It was appalling and we need to be saying that loud and clear so that other parents do not emulate them. Clarence Mitchell has no conscience and he is not a lawyer paid to defend these two either! He just likes to try and sound like one. If we did not oppose all his sickening spin how much more harm is he indirectly causing to so many other children? I just do not know how he can rationalise his behaviour to himself, what a sickening way to earn a living. Not reporting on murder cases as he used to do, but trying to minimise and deny them and child neglect too.

Sickening man!

viv said...

Hiya Gina

That may be news yet to break so thanks for that but seems more likely just digging up anyway.

I must admit at first I thought surely she just wandered off and that is what Kate herself told Mr Woolfall.

I think they actually know the McCanns whereabouts at various times through mobile phone triangulation and were searching a large reservoir area..on Dr Rebelo's orders some time back. I did a post ..where the PJ actually searched it was a different one to the Madeiran dreams chap!


Viv x

Wizard said...

Football commentators often refer to a match as a game of two halves. The Daily Mail today publishes an article of two halves. Could it have been written by a sport writer?

With strong opening play from the Mail Arguidos we see an excellent opening shot with a goal from their defender Mitchell.

“Portuguese police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are expected to say today that their trip to the UK to re-interview the Tapas 7 was fruitless, with no new leads being thrown up.
Chief Inspector Paulo Rebelo is likely to tell prosecutors that no new evidence has been uncovered in hours of interviews, according to a source.
The admission will open the way for Kate and Gerry McCann to be cleared as suspects in the case.”
Score Mail Arguidos 1 - PJ 0
In the late second half of this article there is a sudden surge of play to build on Murat’s position within the Mail Arguidos. They report……
“Meanwhile, The Mail on Sunday has learned that Robert Murat will remain a formal suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann for at least a further three months.
The 34-year-old had hoped that the decision by the Portuguese police to allow him to travel to visit his daughter in Britain two weeks ago was a sign that the "arguido" status was soon to be lifted.”
As the game draws to a close and in the dying minutes (last sentences in fact) we are told.
“However, Mr Murat has been informed that his suspect status will be extended until August when the McCanns' similar arguido status will also be considered.”
A late goal by Paulo Rebelo inside the box comes off of a mistake by the goal keeper Gerry McCann, the PJ get the late equaliser.
Mail Arguidos 1 – PJ 1
How can the Mail infer in some detail the McCanns arguido status will be lifted today at the beginning of the article then tells its readers at the very end of the article the McCanns status will be extended until August like Murat's? Perhaps Mail readers are not known for finishing a long article. Which allows the truth to be buried.

Gina said...

Viv, I really do not know what to think anymore with all these so called leaks and accusations as to who leaked what. I am really annoyed with the Spanish reporter for leaking the story because he said he thinks the McCanns are innocent yet he leaks the story at a time that was damaging to them apparently. It just not make sense at all. Funny how the Spanish figure in this, first a Spanish detective agency, then a Spanish reporter leaking a story, all very odd IMO

Gina said...

Good Morning Wizard, are you up to speed with what went on on here yesterday, you were cloned along with many others. Personally I find it disgusting that these people use all that foul language etc. on blogs that are discussing the fate of a little girl. I do not read the other site but from what I understand from here, they also got the same.

viv said...

Hiya Wizard

Liked the football analogy

So at the top of the article

will enable the McCanns to be cleared as suspects


and at the bottom of the article

suspect status will be extended until August.


Critical reading skills are required when reading any press article which you certainly have and thanks for flagging that one up!

I have always thought the Daily Mail was the most pro-McCann, in fact I have this vision of Clarence wandering around the office and then saying move over I will type that up for you it just needs a little polishing and re-arrangement of the order of things if you must insist on sticking accurate things in there as well, damn you!

I am Whitehall trained and I worked for Tony Blair, no less, I am a master at burying bad news, which is what I am paid to do for Kate and Gerry McCann, I love a real challenge!

viv said...

Hiya Gina

This sad individual has now started yet another blog where she speaks of her hatred for both sides. No one wants her! I wonder why!


Sorry I was not around to swat her.

Just did though, which was nice:-)

Stella said...

Hi Gina

You mentioned a road is being dug up under Police supervision, why would the Police attend a routine road repair?

Gina said...

Hi Viv,

As you know I am on the fence regards the disappearance of Madeleine. I guess this is because I am influenced by my many police friends and they way their minds have to think in such matters. I naturally would be now have formed an opinion if I had seen for myself the witness statements and the forensic reports. However it is impossible, even on the fence, to not have a view or some opinion. My gripe has always been the way the McCanns have gone about this, no need to repeat all that. These people who come on to blogs would do more good if they actually had something viable to say IMO because at least on here differing views can be expressed if they stick to the issue and do not get personal. Just typing :-( says what exactly, what is the point of that. Is it supposed to make us see the error of our ways or something.

Gina said...

Stella, I cannot confirm if they are actually overseeing it, for all I know they may have been seen near the road works at the time and it had nothing to do with it. I was hoping somebody can confirm it but I do not think any of our posters live there

Stella said...

Gina

You are right the Police may have stopped to ask for a light or something. I have never believed that she could have been placed in roadworks anyway, so let's hope they are not searching there.

Gina said...

Stella, many of us at the beginning thought it was not beyond the realms of possibility that Madeleine had gone to look for her parents (even more likely if the statement was true that she cried the night before and nobody came). She could have fallen down a hole which was later covered in. However I suppose realistically that is highly unlikely because it would have been one of the first places people searching would have looked. I guess the pipes have burst again!!!!

SwedishMum said...

Morning Viv,

Your account on the front page is impressive (sad, but impressive).

Gina,

will you please keep us posted if you hear anything more about the diggings?

2345 said...

Viv,

I'm with you all the way on every issue. My main commitment has been elderly abuse, the other end of the spectrum, as vulnerable as abused neglected children.

Madeleine's and Shannon's cases bring to mind my grandmother's saying 'there's one law for the rich and another for the poor'.
I'm defensive of Karen Matthews insofar as she and her family followed the McCanns appalling example in pursuit of £1 m at taxpayers expense. It triggered a hunt on the scale of The Ripper - costing multi millions. This is addition to the eleven months of costs in the McCann case. They are a public liability - a menace to decent society.

On the day dishevelled, gaunt Karen was photographed in handcuffs on DE's front page, 'saints' McCanns were photographed alongside preparing for their mission to Brussels.

In Shannon's case, the uncle admitted it was a scam - he co-operated and faced the consequences. He's since attempted suicide. Karen's pursuit of ill gotten gains brought issues to light which are being dealt with by appropriate authorities. Copying the McCanns has destroyed what little she did have in her lower status existence.
This family are not covering up, they've come clean.

McCanns and those shielding them continue to lie and cover up. I doubt Karen obtained £1.3 m in social benefits ... the McCanns had no qualms about taking the sum under false pretences.

One law for the rich and another for the poor ... the rich continue to pervert the course of justice at our expense ... the poor are not only made to face justice they are publicly demeaned and humiliated in the process.

Justice will prevail in Shannon's case ... justice will be perverted in Madeleine's. The least of the crimes in this case is child neglect, the worst the death and disappearance of a child.

I'm not negative, but realistic regarding the protection afforded to the McCanns; money and power, as corrupting as drugs and alcohol.

One law for the rich, another for the poor .....

Repeating police information in Shannon's case is permissible, doing likewise in the McCanns results in threats of libel.
inspiration from McCanns has lost her everything

nancy said...

Good morning Viv and everyone!

What an eye-opener your report is -at the same time very very sad - I just can't stand reading anything to do with child abuse in any way shape or form. But of course we have to face up to the fact that it is happening as we speak. Thanks for all those statistics - you must have been up all night! The NSPCC have always done a grand job, and if I ever give to charity it is usually to them or someone else trying to help the children who are living miserable existences through cruel parents etc - poor little souls; they don't ask to be born after all and I think it would be a good idea for children to have parenting classes to show them just what it means to have the responsibility of a child. Many girls come from hospital, literally the same day, with their newborn baby and many of them without the support of a Mother of their own and have no idea how to begin to cope! When I had my first baby, we were kept in for 10 days and shown how to feed, bath and generally cope with a new born infant! Why did that change?
I'm sure we all support the NSPCC's charity shops too which brings in millions for them, so that's a good start.

Thanks again for that informative post.

viv said...

Hiya Gina and Stella

I thought the road works were filled in pretty quickly so that does not fit with the PJ saying the body was moved around various locations or the forensic evidence in the hire car.

It just seems too risky for the McCanns to have dumped her in there, such an obvious place to look, and Gerry saying well find the body then and prove we killed her sounds like he knew damn fine it never would be. Clearly if she was in those road works it would not be beyond the realms of possibility police would think to look there.

But who knows?

I cannot think of any other homicide case where people have been publically named like this as prime suspects and not been charged. That is the way the police work, isn't it?

The police obviously did not get any evidence from Murat on either his computer or his clothing otherwise they would not have handed it back. Handing his property back like that was sending out a very clear signal in his case, and now we hear he is sueing 11 papers! I wonder why the McCanns just picked on the Express and from the outset just wanted a settlement¬I bet they did. I think the Express handing the money over was a cynical ploy because they know they are guilty and they know they will be convicted, imagine the headlines in the DE then and how their sales will rocket, sound investment!

Viv x

nancy said...

Viv -

On a completely different point - can you tell me how I, and others, were cloned yesterday. I thought your password was private, so how do they actually do this? It's a bit scary really knowing that someone can be using your name to write disgraceful blogs on not only this forum but on other forums too - I'd be interested to know how they actually do this, not being very technically minded myself.

Stella said...

Gina

Something as large as a dog in Pink PJ's would have been spotted down a hole, and a childs night vision is extremely good, she would have had to have had her eyes closed to fall down any holes of her own accord. Someone on the other hand wishing to possibly dispose of a body might consider burying it further in a already made hole, which is a possibility, I guess? It is a shame that Eddie and Keela's fees are so high, it would have been nice to have had them sniffing out all the stop points of the triangulated calls?

Gina said...

Good Morning Swedish Mum,

Yes I will keep you informed but I doubt I will hear anything of any value if there is anything and I am taking it all with a pinch of salt at the moment. Realistically if there is a dig, why now. I am not going into a big speculation that it is as a result of the police interviews because that would mean someone has spilled the beans and to me that is highly unlikely. It is probably just a coincidence, if it is in fact happening at all.

Sorry you had a bad day yesterday with comments.

Gina said...

Viv I agree a very unlikely place but I remember when I used to play hunt the thimble, I used to hide it right under peoples noses and they walked by it. Who knows though, I certainly do not

Stella said...

Hi Viv

Like you I feel DE are thinking more of long term financial gains, which is very sad really on the back of Madeleine's death. I used to support them in the early days for allowing freedom of speech, but now they are no better than leeches.

2345 said...

gina,

Thanks for the news and repairing a repair seems most likely. Cadavers followed scent of death to water's edge as opposed to it stopping at site of road works.

Eddie & Keela directed handlers to skeletal remains under concrete in the Jersey case and would, I firmly believe, have done the same in Luz. As you know my faith in this pairs abilities never waivers.

I wonder whether they're still working on the Jersey case as news from that quarter has ceased.

SwedishMum said...

Gina,

I'll survive the comments (and you can feel relieved that they found a new target).
Though I honestly don't see how anyone can be proud of having participated in turning a 10 year-old's death into a conquest on who's best at making the most horrendous posts and at the same time ridiculing Swedish Mum.
They claim to be in this for the children. Well, yesterday the showed their real colours. And those colours had nothing to do with children.

2345 said...

stella,


You're right about DE ...their treatment of the public in the Forum was a revelation ... sold their soul to cover Madeleine's case.

2345 said...

swedishmum,

I'm sure the 'nasties' are employees of McCanns defence team.

Forums are heavily monitored and manipulated. CM admitted he closed MF, overhead by OP at LSE.

Aim is to secure McCanns freedom with as much public support as possible. Hence forum activity, if it wasn't so critical, we'd be left in peace and not monitored by Big Brother.

A recent documentary on the media said forums are more influential than newspapers.

Stella said...

2345

Do you think there is a possibility that the body could have been taken out to sea in a smaller boat to meet a larger boat that was not in use being anchored somehwere? If a body was stored in a very cold hull of a boat any funny smells would not be noticed and it certainly would give someone time to make more permanent arrangements? Are there mooring points just outside PDL?

viv said...

Rosie

Your sad prose is unmistakable and you know you are not wanted on here.

Career in probationary???What?

Kate and Gerry are a sad couple looking for their child???

It is you that gets everything hopelessly wrong!

Stay on your own boring little blog, is it still private? Not that it would make any difference even if the public could read it, they would not stay long!

Gina said...

Swedish Mum, the problem the way I see it is this. It has turned into a them and us situation unfortunately, so if you post on here you are ridiculed over there and visa versa. Everybody tars everybody with the same brush irrespective of their views, you are judged by which ever blog you post on. People like us who are still open minded as to what actually happened to Madeleine are a bit out of step on either blog IMO, but at least on this one we can question certain aspects of the McCanns behaviour without being told to go away. I as you know have been accused of all sorts, which I know to be entirely wrong (but cannot prove it) but if I say one word in my own defence I am accused of wingeing or putting on the poor old me act. I resolved the problem by only reading the McCann files for update news, and posting on here, and do not even look at the other site anymore. They are never going to change their opinion of me and I certainly am not going to even bother to try and make them. All I do know if they have got me all wrong so they are not such a good judge of character as they think they are, maybe they have also got the McCanns all wrong too, who knows!!

viv said...

2345

Good point about the dogs, they certainly would have been able to discover the body buried in the road works, exactly what they are trained to do!

Sniffing such an old corpse through all that concrete says it all!

Viv x

SwedishMum said...

2345,

if that's the case, it's an extremy ugly way of securing this couple's freedom.
Well, they won't silence me anyway. As Mowgli says in the Swedish version of Disney's animation:
"Jag är tuffare än somliga tror"
("I'm tougher than some believe")

2345 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
SwedishMum said...

Gina,

One of the sadder things on the other site is that some of those I thought were rather intelligent and decent people believe in what a few posters, who seem to have problems with understanding the written word, claim is written here.

Viv,
sorry for this excursion into yesterday's debacle, just had to get it off my chest.

Zodiac said...

Good morning all,

Swedishmum,

So sad that little Engla suffered at the hands of another. I wish strength for her family.


I have not had time to read all the post of the past few days and gather from some I have read that there was unsavoury goings on at other posters expense.

Good for Robert Murat 11 newspapers and Sky News to be possibly sued. £2 million being quoted in total. Now was that not the figure Pops said the Macs should ask Oprah for, after all she could afford to pay that for their interview according to the font of all knowledge. Well does anyone think Oprah would pay them one cent!

Gina,

Just a thought regarding the digging, under possible Police supervision, perhaps the location was given by someone interviewed recently, only a humble opinion.

I will still continue to read information in the Public Domain regarding this ongoing live investigation, however I will only believe the information given by PJ live press statements to the public, not statements made by Clarence Mitchell. Viv your comments above regarding him, I agree.

KM saying that the public are ignorant and she feels that she and her husband have to let us all know about child danger in Europe. K, no thanks I do not need someone such as yourself to educate me about anything regarding child safety in Europe or elsewhere. Look in the mirror if you want to know who is responsible for the 'situation M now finds herself in'. If you and your husband were not so ignorant and had your children properly supervised whilst you enjoyed yourselves elsewhere, the World and it's granny would not be subjected to this horrible situation.

Gina said...

Swedish Mum, I agree. I used to value some of their opinions but they shot themselves in the foot with me when they started reporting things said on here out of context.

VIM, I think there is a blog that specialises in poetry, maybe you should post your words there.

SwedishMum said...

Zodiac,

We all think of her poor family. Currently 164750 have lit a light for Engla on www.expressen.se

Gina said...

Zodiac, IF Madeleine was abducted then I fully understand why the McCanns will not give up on the search. However, as we all know they left the kids to all kinds of danger while they went out, I think they are not the sort of people to be getting involved with anything related to childrens agencies. These agency are already in place, so if they want to assist they could just send funds to them, their opinions on child care is of no value IMO

SwedishMum said...

Sorry that should be "lit a candle"

Di said...

Good morning Viv and all

I did not get as chance to look in yersterday, it would appear from looking back it was very eventful.

Reading the statistics it would appear the NSPCC have a monumental task ahead. These are statistics we know about, I wonder just how many other poor children suffer neglect and abuse in silence, too many to even contemplate I am sure.

Di said...

I have just been having a quick look on 3As. This was posted by Bishopbrennan, not sure if there is any truth in it.

the latest info on SOS Madeleine.

“If there was a pact of silence, it has been broken and I am sure that our Portuguese colleagues will succeed” claimed a representative from the UK police in Endersby, where a certain annoyance at the pressures targeted at the Leciestershire police were starting to show.

According to the same source, the statements from Jane Tanner and Russell O Brien, which implicate Kate and Gerry McCann directly, enabled the detectives to understand why Madeleine’s mother had refused to reply to a large number of questions. In the month of September, the day when she was made ‘arguida’ just before the couple left for the UK, Kate refused to cooperate with the PJ – in particular refusing to explain why she had changed her clothes or why Madeleine, ever since arriving at the Ocean Club, cried often when she was with her mother but never when she was with Gerry.

Zodiac said...

Gina,

If any child is a victim of abduction or is missing I can fully understand the parent/s need not to give up the search for their missing child. However, I do not believe that M was abducted and I have no sympathy for the parents whatsoever, they are more interested in trying to deflect attention elsewhere and perceive the public as gullible idiots who have no right to poke their noses into their business, it seems as though they also think the PJ have no right to investigate into their business and that they the prime suspects can call all the shots, IMHO. As far as I can see they have done nothing to look for their child, only tried to latch onto credible causes and other peoples sad situations (hand picked) to try and gain some credibilty, IMHO. CM and the McC's should realise this is not an Election that can be Spun by Election Spin, it is the possible demise of a 3 yr old little girl where the parents are suspects, Justice does not take into account how popular the prime suspect/s are in Criminal Investigations.

Stella said...

Especially for you VIM

In the style of Craclin Rose by Neil Diamond

Oh, WE ALL love OUR Rosie child
SHE’s got a way to make US UNHAPPY
You and US, we go in style
CACKLIN Rose, you’re a store bought woman
You make US sing like a guitar hummin
So hang on to US, girl our songs keeps runnin’ on

Play it now, play it now, my baby

CACKLIN Rosie, YOU make US ALL smile
Girl if it lasts for an hour, that’s all right
We’ve got all night
Find us a dream that don’t ask no questions, yeah.........

Oh, WE ALL love OUR Rosie child

best wishes
Stella AKA Hope4You

viv said...

2345

Now I have just deleted one of your comments.

You seem to be displaying considerable animosity towards Claudia and Alsabella too and I will not put up with it.

Claudia is a moderator here and has full authority to delete inappropriate posts and she discussed it with me too.

Whenever comments get personal it always leads to hurt feelings and unpleasantness. Please avoid it.

Viv

Wizard said...

Good Morning,

Gina, yesterday’s activities by trolls, glove puppets, keyboard monkeys whatever you like to call them is a response to CM telling us “the gloves are off.” These are desperate measures by very desperate people and all this really proves to me is that regular contributors on Viv’s forum and others like it warrant the attention of these desperados because we discuss things that are very close to the truth.
Imo the closer we get to the truth the more antics will appear by those trying to save their clients reputation.

All this is activity is a backhanded compliment to the insight and logical discussion of most posters on this forum. Nothing more and nothing less.

Gina said...

Zodiac, don't start me off on my soapbox about what the McCanns should have done. In a nutshell totally the opposite to what they did.

Tip of the day: Don't eat toast covered in honey, then type!!

Stella said...

Gina

Have you got sticky keys.......?

Gina said...

Wizard, I understand what you are saying but what is the point of keyboard monkey's hired from the zoo. If you want to swing public opinion your way use sensible logic and explanation has a better chance of a result. Think it is far too late for that now, opinions have been formed and unlikely to change.

Stella - Yes ;-(

mandarinn said...

Good morning VIV and everybody.
Gina. IMO The so called leak about Madeleine being cry is in Portugal on public dommain, actually not only the neigbour listen to her crying but also OC staff had to call the parents on the restaurant where they was partying with friends, it was reported not tapas bar . I think this leak come in a very apropriated time to give a motivation to mccans don't come to portugal.
SM
I feel very sorry and sad about what happened to little Engla.Yesterday using the information you put in this blog i went to newspaper and light a candle for Engla. We can do nothing more, only a homage to warm their fammily's heart,if it is possible.
BTW i was once in stkholm and i found people very warm and nice

viv said...

Nice poem Stella:-)


I am thrilled to bits at the prospect of Robert Murat getting £2M from UK papers.

What excellant news, let us hope he is successful.

GO GO ROBERT! I think Michaela should too but no doubt you will help her feel better and take her on a lovely long holiday xxxxx

marga said...

Good morning all!

Hope this is a quiet day here. yesterday was horrible with all that sick posters and clones.

Thanks Viv for the info. It's really sad how many children in this world ahve to face so much cruelty and evil.

SM,
I'm also very sorry about the girl.Hope justice is served to the abhorrent guy.

Gina,
I'm curious about the digging. I'm watching the news but have herad nothing. Perhaps at 11 o'clock they will report sth on the case.

2345,
they are trying a last attempt this time aimed directly at our police. They want them to be regarded as corrupt and and brutal. M3 is helping them and so is the other chap.
The PJ have their own credits. yesterday for instance there was here a news about the way they have contributed to the arrest of Al'queida terrorists in Italy.
They must have a serious case against the arguidos in this case.I believe.That's why they are shaking by now.

Zodiac said...

Gina,

Mmmmm...toast...off for some toast and coffee...BBL8TR.

Hi H4Y,

Hope you have been well, I wondered where you were?

marga said...

Hi Mandarinn!

Are you watching sic or RTPN?

Gina said...

Marga, do not make anything of the digging, I have tried to check it myself as I did not trust what I was told this morning. I think it is possible nothing more than workmen repairing something and that will hardly make the news. Although I have to say we have been waiting for some work to be done here in Spain for months now and to us it will be a major event if it ever gets done!!

mandarinn said...

morning Marga!!!
i just connected sic, today we have Moita Flores comments

SwedishMum said...

Mandarin/Marga,

nice to see you both and it's nice to know that you care about a little girl so far away.

I'm off now, may be back later.

Have a nice afternonn all!

Stella said...

Hi zodiac

I am still in my dressing gown with a bit of a headache, so today is not a good day. I still managed to pull one of my songs out of a lucky bag for Rosie though, so it can't be all that bad really.

marga said...

SM,

it's always hurting no matter the place sth like this happens.

Mandarinn, I know, thanks, but was expecting to hear in the 11 o' clock news but nothing until now.

mandarinn said...

Marga
something new besides( !alem de ???) murat going to sue newspers,? i would like michaela do the same.

marga said...

Mandarinn,
Both are right to sue the press.
That Lori Campbell should be the first one. I can remember when she pointed him the finger live on TV.

I've read sth lately that she is on Mc Canns' side.

Well Michaela shall do the same, too. She was also accused of taking Maddie to Spain.

mandarinn said...

Marga i also remenber her, she look prety greedy to win the money prize, don't you think?

marga said...

Please see this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/melanie_reid/article3739770.ece

P.S. Have a vomit bowl by you!

marga said...

Mandarinn,

well, and who says she hadn't?

dolores said...

Viv,
'IF' they were cleared of thei arguido status,could UK police make charges of neglect on K&G as to the disappearence of Maddie,who is a UK citizen.

XX D

Wizard said...

I would love to see Murat and Michaela sue a large section of the British Press. It serves then right for publishing one sided articles in defence of the McCanns. In a small community like PDL this negative press must have been devastating. Without backing from helpful millionaires etc Robert Murat, his family and friends were just sitting ducks.

Murat of course was placed in the frame initially by a Daily Mirror reporter so perhaps it would be poetic justice to sue them first.

marga said...

Does anyone know who Melanie Reid is?

It sounds like someone familiar, don't you think?

irina said...

Dear Viv, in defense of 2345< I would like to say, that I did not like the tone Claudia spoke to posters about two days ago, I even thought, that it was not Claudia, but imposter. The tone was patronizing and frivolous. We all here for the same reason and nobody can clime superiority.
I know Viv, that it is your blog, but people support it in a good faith. And I never have seen any unbalanced actions from you.
2345 as we all know is very passionate about the case and strongly believes in the evidence given in September. She keeps reminding us about it, for which I am grateful to her.
Some people are getting very careful with what they are saying (they have reasons). They should not stop the others to have their shout!!! (All this was said about the remarks that started that personal feud).
I do support 2345 in her right to repeat the evidence.

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

No we could not prosecute them in the UK for neglect committed abroad we do not have jurisdiction for that offence. We could only prosecute them for homicide.

I also think it would be too late for the Portuguese to prosecute them for this offence because I think there is a 6 months time limit.

I am quite certain however their arguido status is not going to be lifted and they are going to be prosecuted for far worse than that. Their neglect of the children will be part of the evidence against them. It is what they call part of the res gestae of the offence meaning it is very much bound up with the offence. If, as seems likely Madeleine was killed by an overdose of sedative they were sedating the children so they could go and leave them alone without fear of Maddie/Sean waking up crying again. I have always said it is likely the neglect is part and parcel of a much more serious offence and I still believe that to be the case.

Lovely to hear from you again darling.

Viv xxx

dolores said...

Wizard,
I would like to see them sue the 3 Tapas who pointed the finger, and K who said some really nasty things towards him.
XX D

ultraviolet said...

14 april today. the day that the arguido status is to be lifted. or then again, maybe not.

here is an extract from the daily mail.

The McCanns' spokesman added: "Rebelo will report back on the interviews that took place last week, and they will then decide on whether the police need more time.

"I assume that will come out in the next day or so.

"We are hoping that they will do the decent thing, realising that the friends told essentially the same story they told last summer, and eliminate Kate and Gerry from the case."

But Mr Mitchell said he believed there was only the "slimmest of slim chances" that this would happen today.


viv, i am sorry about the mess you had to clean last night. some people have no morals or sense of decency at all.

viv said...

Hi Irina

Thanks for your comments which are noted. I also support 2345 in her comments re the evidence against the McCanns.

Viv x

mandarinn said...

Marga
i read it, desgusting... but i also read the comments , most of them don't agree with the colunist.

marga said...

Have you noticed that the journalist does not refer to the other two British mothers (Karen and that one in Goa)?

viv said...

Hi Ultra

Mr Mitchell chooses he words very carefully

the friends told essentially the same story

why did he not say exactly the same story

because he knows that would be a lie

he also knows damn fine their status is not going to change until they get charged, that is!

Wizard said...

Dolores, I’m hoping the T3 you mention will get their comeuppance via the pj for the lies they have told. Robert Murat and his family will hopefully be consoled by this as I doubt whether he will get much money out of them, especially if they are in nick!

dolores said...

Viv,
Thanks for the info., on that.
In other,their would be no relief for them if it were dropped, as UK police would take over and pursue justice for Maddie.
I would like to see R.B and his family sue the socks of Metodo3.

XX D

ultraviolet said...

yes. essentially is not the same thing as exactly. that is interesting!

you may be interested in a post last night on the other blog. the mccann were referred to as effluent. i think perhaps the person meant to write, affluent, instead.

or perhaps it really is effluent. you decide.

marga said...

Mandarinn,

have read them now. Yes apart from those who seem to be familiar too, it show how people have their eyes open at the moment.

dolores said...

Ultraviolet,
If they were so affluent,why did they need take money from the fund to pay their mortgage,and solicitors?
They were living beyond their means IMO.

XX D

marga said...

UltraViolet,

I had to leave yesterday but one thing I could conclude is that when you don't answer the monkeys they give up to annoy you after the 3rd attempt. LOL

ultraviolet said...

they also seem to think, that one can just "hire" the fbi, like metodo-3.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/maddie/article1037189.ece

this headline actually made me laugh when i saw it. the crime did not take place in america, the mccann are not american citizens, why would the fbi care?

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

Sueing someone for libel is expensive so there are essentially two things you have to consider:

1. Do you have a really good case against them to justify the costs? Many libel lawyers including Carter Ruck will offer to take the case on, on a no win no fee basis. This means if the case is lost they do not get paid and so they will only take a case on if they are pretty sure they are going to win. The sting in the tail is you agree to give them a large part of your damages anything up to 50% but costs are usually recovered from the person you sued.

2. The person you are sueing must be worth sueing, e.g. they must have the money to pay the damages. It is no use sueing someone who has very little assets or money.

For the above reasons Murat is very unlikely to target M3. He has a much better case against the press because they have actually libelled him in print, rather than slander verbally libelling him which is obviously much more difficult to prove and arguably less damaging to your reputation than the written word in papers with large circulation and also online. Also they are definitely good for plenty of money!


Viv x

Cláudia said...

Hello, everybody!
Just got home for lunch. Very busy. Last term is kind of stressful.
What's new?
Any Portuguese posters around (Marga, Mandarinn, etc), today, Tardes da Júlia, on TVI channel may be interesting. Unfortunately I won't be able to watch it because I'll be at work. I will need a report later! :-)

marga said...

Cláudinha!

Is Júlia inviting someone to talk about the case?

2345 said...

Viv,

I've just found a heart wrenching photo of Madeleine sitting on a rug lovingly feeding one of the twins.

google - Police forensic results - Madeleine McCann - Anorak News - Madeleine McCann - Portuguese Police.

She's wearing what looks like a party frock, sitting in front of the fire place feeding one of her siblings. It reflects a kind, gentle and caring child, the twin she's feeding looks about one year old, if that.

I think she looks like a little mother, don't you ? I'm choked, catch you later.

marga said...

Well, I'm not going to be home, too. Perhaps Mandarinn or Ana?

viv said...

Hiya Ultra I do agree what a load of rubbish from The Sun. A full FBI probe in the headline. As you say the McCanns are not American citizens and this is nothing to do with the FBI.

But in the very next paragraph we see that what the McCanns are actually demanding is a probe by missing children experts including former FBI and Met Officers. In short a paper that contradicts its own headline in the very first para. Many Sun readers would not even notice, watch it get quoted on Rosie's site!

We have seen many examples where the McCanns have looked to the States for help in defending themselves. The States is a country where you can buy "experts" to get yourself out of trouble. Wacko and OJ managed it and I dont they are going to sue for me saying well actually they were most definitely guilty. Text book sex offender and text book murderer.

The McCanns have previously stated they were looking to the States to defeat the dog evidence against them by asking an American attorney for details of a case where he got his client off, arguing the dog evidence was unreliable. But the American dog was just an ordinary working police dog. Eddie and Keela are not ordinary working police dogs the are super puppies, specialist dogs who are charged out to other countries and forces in the UK at a phenomenal rate, higher than the pay of the Chief Constable due to their incredible accuracy and 100% success rate.

The McCanns have also looked to the States for an "expert" who is critical of low copy number DNA evidence. It is not unusual in the scientific field for experts in the States to be in competition with experts in the UK each saying their own methods are more scientifically proven and superior. Unfortunately for the McCanns, whatever this one man may be prepared to say, the FSS and their methods are in demand all over Europe and beyond and are renowned the world over for their expertise.

All we ever hear from the McCanns is the absurd demands they want to keep making. What would the reaction of the public be if Gordon Brown actually granted a couple of prime suspects their wish and started an investigation against so called incompetent Portuguese Police! What a ludicrous suggestion.

I have said it before and I will say it again, it is about time these two just started acting like other serious criminal suspects and understand the police dictate what goes on, not them! Nothing they can buy from the US is going to save them from facing justice for what they did to their own little girl and her brother and sister too, to a lesser extent. They are wicked and cannot browbeat or buy their way out of trouble.

The threatened to sue the PJ some months back, why dont they just put up and shut up! Simple because they know they would lose!

A smear campaign against them..they seriously smear themselves with their conduct and attempts to lecture on child protection. They get what they deserve for being so incredibly facile.

How on earth did they expect us to believe Madeleine was abducted when they immediately used her eye defect as a brand image to sell which would have quite obviously signed her death warrant.

As Kate said we just did what we thought was best..certainly was not best for Madeleine. They were specifically advised not to do that but they wanted the cash and lots of it, that is why Gerry was laughing and looking so happy on the beach on Madeleine's birthday with his co-ordinated worlwide event. He could just imagine all the cash he was generating, well I hope he is sorry now!
-----------


MISSING Maddie McCann’s parents are calling for a full probe involving the FBI into Portuguese cops’ handling of the case.

Kate and Gerry want a panel of missing children experts, including former US and Met police, to look at how the inquiry team handled itself.

Officers have been accused of bungling the investigation since Maddie, four, went missing from Praia da Luz last May. The McCanns have also accused the Portuguese of a smear campaign against them.

Last night their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “We believe Portuguese police have been found wanting. We are asking the British Government to call for such an inquiry. It’s important for Madeleine and other missing children.”

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Everyone,

Just dropping by before i have to go out...maybe, if the road is being dug up relating to Madeleine, they are not looking for her body, but for something connected with her like, say, clothing?

Seems a bit too close to home for her body, and let's not forget that the police discovered the blood-stained towel at the remote farm through, so I thought, analysis of the mobile phone records. I would have thought the body would more likely be found well away from Praia da Luz. There are also nearly 2000 km unaccounted for in the hire car.

The argument could be, if anything IS discovered under the ground at Praia da Luz, that the 'abductor' threw something of hers away or dropped it whilst carrying her off from the apartment.

Anyway, just a thought.

Cláudia said...

Hello, Marga.
To be honest, I don't know any details. The only thing I know is that Mr Paulo Pereira Cristóvão will be there. I won't be home too. Just found out that I have 3 more kids to fit in my schedule. This last term is TOOOOOO big! :-)

marga said...

Cláudia,(cruzes!!)

have you have heard sth about digging around the area in PDL supervised by the police?

Gina said...

Unbelievable!! For the first time in weeks I looked in on the other site and immediately saw my name mentioned"

part of tulips post "Then there are the ones I find hard to place. People like Swedish Mum and Gina who often seem sane -- yet follow Viv like sheep, while pretending to have a mind of their own. Irrespective of what they believe to be true about the McCanns, can they not see how evil this woman is? Are they equally undiscerning in their real life?

I decided to reply, politely and pointed out that I felt Swedish and myself did not really belong on any blog but at least on this one we can give an opinion. I went on to point out that not everybody agrees with everybody anyway. I said my main gripe was that the McCanns should have stayed in Portugal and fought the PJ like the women in Goa did which earned my respect. The McCanns would if innocent would have won loads of respect if they had said to the PJ charge us now or release us and even ignored the rules of arguido status and spoken out even if it risked imprisonment. They would not have stayed there for long with all the support they had, and more importantly it would have stopped all the spin and focused the case on looking for Madeleine and stopped all the wasted time.

These were not my exact words, but my post lasted one second and they say people who are not rude or attack other posters are welcomed. Maybe my post would have remained if what I said about what the McCanns should have done had not hit a nerve. Deleting my post has just spoken volumes to me, but words fail me

Cláudia said...

No, I haven't, Marga. But I was away since 8 o'clock and nowhere near the internet, tv or newspapers.

mandarinn said...

Claudia, Marga
What time is Julia prgram in TVI? Maybe i can attend it

marga said...

Cláudia,

I'm sure you do your job quite well.That's why they look for you.:-) Like dogs, kids sense who likes them too. And I'm sure you could be a lovely mother-hen!
Or kangaroo mother!LOL

marga said...

mandarinn,
at 2 o'clock

viv said...

Hiya 2345

I have found the pic and I agree it is absolutely beautiful and shows her for the loving little angel she was. So much for Kate saying she "shrieked for attention when I was feeding the twins".

I will insert the pic into today's post in a min.

Hiya Claudia

How are you coping with all the work you have on?

Search of the roadworks sounds interesting!

LGC

You make a good point was some evidence dumped in there. McCanns lost a few things, let me see if I can remember, a buggy, a tennis bag, I am sure there were some more!

Viv xxxx

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv,

A wallet, the Leicestershire Health Authority PFI deal, a daughter, credibility...

nancy said...

Atardi -

I have just read back on last night's forum and I see you think that I may need some advice about the cloning!

I must admit I'm a bit worried that someone can do that and I asked Viv on here earlier if she knew how they got our passwords, but on thinking about it common sense tells me that she can't give an answer to that question because others of the same ilk who are reading this might decide to do the same. So I'll just carry on with my name Nancy (after my darling departed mother) and just ignore any of them if that start, which I do anyway. I have rarely risen to the bait! In fact I have to laugh that anyone would want to clone me seeing as I'm a normal obsessed grandmother and heading towards my sell by date!!

The reason I am on here is because I care about what happened to Madeleine and to make sure that all countries seek justice for their children because they certainly don't deserve such terrible things to happen to them.

marga said...

Cláudinha,

you've got mail!

I'm going to watch the 1 o'clock news on TVI.

dolores said...

Marga,
I posted on Saturday,that apparently there was digging going on under some cobblestones near the church,I have not seen anything about it since.

Cláudia said...

Hello, girls.
I'm a bit stressed. had to change my schedule to fit in one of the kids, but I think it's ok now. These next two months will be quite full. Some kids are already having tests, Marga!!!! Marga, in some ways I already am. Who do you think they talk to about their problems, fears, questions, etc? You know well how these things are...
Mandarinn, I think that Tardes da Júlia starts a few minutes after 2 o'clock.

LittleGreyCell said...

Hello Nancy,

Apparently, they can clone a name very simply by just leaving a space before the name, or using lower case instead of upper case, and so on.

Doing this must convince us that the McCanns are totally innocent...

:)

ultraviolet said...

nancy, the clone does not have your password. they did not use your profile. they just altered their own profile, to make it look the same as yours. it is easily done. although why anyone would think, that this is amusing, or clever behavior, i do not know!

viv said...

Check out the gorgeous pic of Maddie feeding Amelie that 2345 found which I had not seen before, now included at the top^

Ah LGC yes that was a big loss of revenue for Gerry, the deal for the hospital regeneration in Leicester that got audited curiously enough in between May and July 2007 and then axed due to greedy developers demands to increase the projected budget by another two million to over nine million..that must have been a killer blow for Gerry. Time to start thinking of the next little earner..

LittleGreyCell said...

Ultraviolet,

It's the only thing they have left in order to convince the world that the McCanns are innocent!

marga said...

Cláudia,

I know.That's why I agree with Atardi when she says we have the most beautiful job in the world.
We are simultaneously many things: parents,friends,psychologists,etc.

At home sometimes they don't have their family to listen to them and to advise them.

Now, I must go.

Jinhos

See you all later.

Viv, that photo shows how sweet Maddie must have been. Poor little innocent girl...

Cláudia said...

Beautiful picture, Viv.
I hope the wonder couple will be forever haunted by their stupidity, selfishness, irresponsibility and neglect.

Doppelganger said...

Hi everyone,

Just had to comment on Ultraviolets post.

So the individuals defending the McCann's think people are attacking them because they are effluent!

How right they are.

You just couldn't make it up could you.

Talking about things you couldn't make up, apparently Shannon Matthews mum is going to get over 100 thousand pounds of plastic surgery so she wont be recognied by vigilantes and altogether it will cost over 1 million pounds to create a new life for her.

To my mind this stinks and is just rewarding criminality. I'm not saying she wouldn't benefit from 100K of plastic surgery but why should honest hard working tax payers foot the bill.

I bet Kate can't wait, she could finally have those new bigger boobs she's always wanted ;-)

Oh and Viv, if ever you think any of my genuine posts overstep the mark I will absolutely not be offended if you choose to delete them. I know I 'fight dirty' sometimes but sometimes I think the end justifies the means.

But I know it is often a close judgement call and it is your blog, so your decision is final.

I won't be posting much for the next few weeks because I am helping my son revise and prepare for his GCSE's.

I'm just making one post now because I don't want anyone to think I have let the loonies win.

Oh and also I never thanked Dolores for her kind remarks last night :-)

Take care everyone and have a nice day.

That was really me by the way ;-)

:-)

ultraviolet said...

nancy, i will become you in a moment, do not be alarmed!

Cláudia said...

You're right, Marga. And you know how many parents nowadays deal with their children. As things.
I won't be long either. A very long afternoon is waiting for me. And I still have a little shopping to do.
Beijinhos!

nancy said...

ok, it is ultraviolet here. i will change back now.

viv said...

Hiya ~Doppel

and lovely to see you back also

So the McCann lovers describe them as effluent, well I never did they could really be on their side. Very bad PR indeed.

Thanks for telling me I can delete your posts, I will try not to:-)

Luv Viv x

ultraviolet said...

i am back as my former self now!

viv said...

hey Ultra and Nancy

You are messing with my mind:-)

I nearly went on a delete fest then!

Luv Viv xxx

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

It is a wonderful pic isn't it, they have a lifetime to regret what they did and they will pay the price.

Luv Viv xxx

dolores said...

It seems we have a Minah bird in here......

Cláudia said...

I know they will, Viv. One way or another. And they have no idea what some brave people are willing to risk so the world knows.

viv said...

Dolores darling how typical of you to use such a kind description

I am sure me and Doppel could think of better, but I better not get either of us on to that:-)

Luv Viv xxxxx

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

Very much a case of the end justifies the means xxxx

dolores said...

Viv
I was going to say parrot ,but did not want to offend yours darling.:)

viv said...

Hiya Dolores

He is a very well balanced little chap, probably because he gets lots of fuss and cuddles x but he can be very aloof towards people he does not like..

Doppelganger said...

Viv,

Hope you didn't think I was 'giving you permission' to delete my posts.

What I mean't was, that I know you are a fair and reasonable person and I didn't want you to spend any time being concerned about offending me.

If you are not sure about any of my posts just delete them and you don't need to explain why either because this is your Blog and I am just a guest here.


:-)

viv said...

Doppel

I would not want to lose any of my lovely posters, you included:-)

Cláudia said...

Exactly, Viv. Sometimes, that's the way it has to be.

viv said...

Hiya Claudia

There is no need for the press to be conducting a truly vicious campaign against Karen, she is not getting away with anything and neither is she trying to.

Those who seek to avoid justice and blind people to the truth deserve to have all of us pointing out the truth. If they do not like it then they know what they can do:-)

2345 said...

Viv,

Delighted you found the photo, it's beautiful, thank you.

viv said...

2345

Thanks for sending me to it, it shows a wonderful little girl, the way we all want to remember her.
Viv xxxx

2345 said...

Viv,

Joana Morais - saying it as it is, including statistics :

19/02/08
The Theory of the Abduction of Madeleine McCann



An Unproven Hypothesis, and Twenty-one Reasons It Cannot Stand.
by Tony Bennett, December 2007

1. The Implausibility of "Stranger" Abduction.

Statistics on alleged ‘stranger’ abduction from a person’s home show that a member of the ‘abducted’ child’s family is usually the perpetrator, and that the child usually dies. An overwhelming 99% of all claimed ‘abductions’ from a home turn out to be intra-family murder. There have been two high profile cases in the last few weeks - ‘Baby Grace’, found battered and decomposing in a plastic box on sand dunes near Galveston, and the ‘dead baby in the attic’. Both were claimed abductions - and both were hoaxes.
Children’s Commissioner I was thinking that he might be persuaded to repeat or enlarge on his little publicised statement with regard to the putative Megan’s Law.
“We are concerned that a version of Megan’s Law could detract from the fact that children are actually most at risk from people known to them.

2. Refusal to Answer the Policia Judiciaria’s Questions.

The McCanns did not answer the P.J.’s questions – it is reported that there were forty such unanswered questions. These are the not actions of innocent parents, who would do all they could to assist the police in every way possible.

3. Ignoring Advice not to Highlight Madeleine’s Eye Defect.

The parents ignored the clearest possible P.J. advice not to highlight Madeleine’s eye defect, the coloboma (an iris defect). If Madeleine were still alive, this would have put Madeleine at much greater risk of death. The parents’ conduct suggests they knew she was already dead. They deliberately ignored sound advice not to make Madeleine so recognisable that the abductors (if she was abducted) would have to kill her. All the publicity posters emphasising the coloboma, the announcement of all the sightings, and claims of being "right on the kidnappers" trail…all these actions put Madeleine at greater risk.


4. The Impossibility of the Abduction Happening as Claimed.

The sheer impossibility of the abduction – so many intractable questions: e.g., why did the abductor wait for thirty-five minutes after the McCanns sauntered down to the Tapas bar? Was the abductor/predator hiding behind the door as Gerry McCann checked the children? (That’s what he claims). Did the abductor/predator really walk in through open patio doors, and why then did he climb out through the window and shutters with Madeleine under his arm? And so on...

5. The Changing Stories of What the Abductor Looked Like.

Jane Tanner’s often changed story of what the abductor looked like: initially "His head was egg-shaped, he had some short hair, and was carrying a bundle, maybe a blanket", then, a full three weeks later - and to make sure that the P.J. issued a description - "I definitely saw him carrying a girl in pink pyjamas". Then, after SIX months, we are given an artist’s impression of the abductor and we are now told: "Head not egg-shaped, hair long, sleek, black and shiny, abductor was not ‘white’ but ‘swarthy and Mediterranean’" etc.

6. The Parents’ Absolute Insistence that Abduction was the Only Explanation for Madeleine’s Disappearance.

The parents’ immediate and insistent cry of abduction - excluding all other possibilities.

7. Claiming the Abductor was the Man Allegedly Seen by Jane Tanner.

Gerry McCann proceeded, after three weeks, to issue a description of the abductor based SOLELY on Jane Tanner’s dubious sighting - against P.J. advice and only after Gordon Brown had intervened by phoning the P.J.

8. The Tapas 9 Pact of Silence.

The "Pact or Conspiracy of Silence" - the notorious agreement between them all to keep silent about the events of that night.

9. Changes to the Story.

Changes to the story, as for example:
Day 1: "Shutters jemmied open, windows open, patio doors locked, abductor must have forced his way in".
Days 2 and 3: P.J. and Mark Warners say: "No way shutters and window were forced from outside".
Several days later: McCanns - "Oh, we left the patio doors open, so abductor must have walked in through the patio doors and then opened the shutters and climbed out of the window with Madeleine".


10. The Hiring of Dubious Private Investigators.

Hiring a dubious British private investigation agency and a dubious Spanish ‘detective agency’ (Metodo 3) at cost of several hundred thousand pounds, all for no obvious benefit or results.

11. The Hiring of Britain’s Top Extradition Lawyer.

The McCanns rushed to hire the U.K.’s top extradition lawyer – one Michael Caplan Q.C. (who represented General Pinochet) - at the very moment they became formal suspects.

12. Publicly Agreeing to Take a Lie Detector Test - And Then Refusing.

After initial boasting of their willingness to take the test, the McCanns refused to do so.

13. Strange and Irrational Excuses for "Blood, DNA, and the Smell of Death".

The extraordinary excuses offered by the McCanns in response to the forensic findings of blood, DNA, and cadaverine smell included these six examples:
(a) I took Cuddle Cat to work - that’s why the smell of death is on Cuddle Cat.
(b) I dealt with 6 corpses in the last fortnight at work, that’s why the smell of death is on my clothes
c) We’ll get on to lawyers in Ireland/America who say these cadaver dogs’ evidence is useless.
(d) The DNA was the children’s dirty nappies in the boot.
(e) The ‘smell of death’ was rotting meat that Gerry was taking to the dump.
(f) The blood in the flat (found underneath the tiles in the children’s bedroom) might have been from Madeleine grazing her leg when she boarded the plane, or perhaps a nosebleed.

14. Not Staying Protectively Close to the Twins after Madeleine’s Disappearance.

The parents left their twins at the creche within days of Madeleine disappearing and spent as much time as possible visiting the Pope, the White House, and "campaigning" - no parents whose child had truly been ‘abducted by a stranger’ would let those twins out of their sight; they would cling to the precious two they had left.

15. Refusing a Urine Test on the Twins.

The McCanns, both doctors, refused urine tests for their two-year-old twins, although they later admitted that the children "could have been drugged by the abductor". The parents then waited for five months before engaging an agency to carry out "independent" tests. The results of these tests have never been publicly disclosed and it is not known for what drugs the agency tested.

16. Only Answering Press Questions with At Least Two Hours Advance Notice.

The McCanns stipulated that for all interviews, the press had to present all questions to them at least two hours in advance of the interview, and that they would only answer those questions, and no others.

17. The McCanns Attempt to Explain that the "Abductor" Drugged the Children.

The McCanns explained away the fact that the twins didn’t wake up, amidst all the shouting when the alarm was raised about Madeleine, by hinting that the twins must have been drugged by the abductor. The McCanns came up with this theory while being filmed by close family friend Jon Corner in August, and after leaks from the Portuguese police suggested that the children had been sedated.

18. The Startling Failure of the McCanns’ Friends to Search for Madeleine the Night She Disappeared.

According to a number of reports which have never been contradicted, while hundreds of people, including staff of Mark Warners and many local people, searched the area around the Ocean Club apartments for hours after Madeleine went missing, not one of the McCanns’ friends, known as the ‘Tapas 9’, bothered to do so. They all went to bed. That is as clear an indication as you could get that they knew it would be pointless searching for Madeleine. It is entirely consistent with them knowing that Madeleine was already dead.

19. The McCanns’ Failure to Talk to Jane Tanner for Two Whole Days About Her Sighting of the "Alleged" Abductor.

According to many reports, and confirmed in an article by David Smith, in ‘The Times’ of late December 2007, the McCanns did not bother to talk to Jane Tanner for two whole days about what she claimed to have seen at 9.15pm that night - namely a person walking off with a child looking like Madeleine. This is despite the McCanns’ absolute insistence that an abduction had taken place. According to David Smith’s article, which included an exclusive and extended interview with Gerry McCann, he and Jane Tanner did not speak to each other because they were ‘too busy’. If there really had been an abduction, the McCanns and Jane Tanner would have spoken to each other about what she saw without a moment’s delay.

20. Apprehension about Phone Calls being Monitored.

The McCanns expressed anxiety about their phone calls and e-mails being intercepted. What innocent parent would worry about that?

21. Concealing Records of their Mobile Phone Calls.

The McCanns refused to supply their mobile phone accounts to the P.J.


Tony Bennett also reflects on the "Find Madeleine" fund:


1. New purpose of Fund to help the McCanns ‘family’ with their expenses was stated only *after* people had donated hundreds of thousands of pounds to ‘find Madeleine’

2. Fund used to pay over £4,000 mortgage payments on 5 The Crescent, Rothley

3. Continued refusals to say how much has been donated so far

4. Refusal to say what has been spent on private investigators and Metodo 3

5. Contradictory information on how much is being spent on Metodo 3

6. Refusal to explain exactly what they (private investigators and Metodo 3) are being paid for

7. Refusal to account to the public for how the funds have been spent to date

8. Refusal to say how much has been spent on expenses and payments to Trustees and members of the McCann family

9. Appealing for more money without giving any account of how much they have got and how much has been spent and on what

10. Continued secrecy = shadiness about the operation of the Fund



Technorati Tags: Clarence Mitchell, Maddie, Madeleine McCann, Mccann, Gerry McCann, Kate McCann, Francisco Marco, Lori Campbel, Robert Murat, Scam, Spin, Tapas, Tony Bennett, xklamation, Joana Morais

dolores said...

Viv,
It's time again to push this vulture of it's perch.:)

viv said...

Good resume thanks 2345

True Dolores, I love birds, but vultures may they fall and break their ugly necks!

2345 said...

Viv,

You're very welcome ... it shows a side of her little personality not revealed before.

U-tube footage in airport bus shows the bond between the twins and their big sister; they're fixed on watching Madeleine and her little friend.

Cláudia said...

Lunch break over, guys.

Spot on, Viv.

Joana Morais rocks! :-)

xxxx

Wizard said...

Viv/LGC,

I’ve always been a bit confused about the multi-million pound deal for hospital regeneration that fell though in the Health Authority Gerry works for. Gerry McCann is just a junior consultant why would he be in a position to have a finger in that particular pie. Does he work on any of the Health Authorities subcommittees that could have a say in this? Is there a link?

I believe one of the main building contractors for this project has a villa either in or near PDL but that’s about all I know.

nancy said...

Viv -

that 'Nancy' was not me - so delete it please!

I've been having lunch and came back to find that post.

Someone is really having a game with us all!

Nancy x

Doppelganger said...

Viv,

Well I know you were understandably upset on Sunday evening, but actually it was a big victory for you.

Certain individuals have been trying to paint you in a bad light for months, but now they have completely lost the plot and are showing themselves for what they really are.

And it does not reflect badly on you in any way, just the opposite in fact.

Your regular posters are not the type of people to give up so easily and after yesterday everyone is more determined than ever to stick by you and see this thing through to the end.

You are getting more and more genuine new posters here and many who have been driven off the other blogs because of personal jealousy, like Swedish Mum for example.

The loonies who are attacking you are actually just bringing more people to your side, but they are too far gone to realise this of course.

And whatever happens, you and Alsabella and did the right things for the right reasons and nothing can ever change that fact.

viv said...

I HAVE JUST TURNED ON ONLY MEMBERS OF THIS BLOG MAY COMMENT I AM NOT SURE HOW THAT WORKS BUT I AM HOPING IT WILL STOP THE LOONEY


Viv x

viv said...

I think it means I will have to make you team members, which I will now do, if that does not work I will turn it off again.

Viv x

viv said...

I need to have your email address to make you a team member so that you can post - can you please email me at

felicity123@live.co.uk

thanks
viv

(if she emails me and gets to be a team member I can easily delete her again)

I have email for 2345
atardi and a few others you will know if you already emailed me I will automatically create those

Sorry for the inconvenience but I think it will be worth it to get rid of nuisances once and for all

Please bear with me on this

THANKS

Viv x

viv said...

I have sent email invites to about 8 of you so far hope you can post again and can the rest of you email me so I can make you members

felicity123@live.co.uk

if you are still having trouble posting please email and tell me

viv x

nancy said...

Hi Viv -

I managed to get back on via Felicity e-mail, so let's hope this system works and we can get rid of the 'nasties' - it really gives you a creepy feeling knowing someone is writing as you and saying disgusting thing to people you respect.

Be back later - off for a sunbathe!

Nancy x

viv said...

well done nancy first one back on

See guys you need to answer the email I sent you.

Viv x

To anyone who has not emailed me please do so then I can send you an email to get you back on the blog

LittleGreyCell said...

LGC is currently seeing the doctor, so this is her husband, who watches this blog with interest, making sure she can still post. Thank you Viv for the invitation.

atardi said...

Hi Viv,

Thank you for your invitation.

Hope you don't need garlic anymore with the new system.

What a lovely photo of Madeleine.

2345 said...

wizard/LGC/Viv,

Excuse me interrupting but all the info is on 3 A's TTW4's thread - Geraghty ws involved with Gerry in the scheme, a fellow mason whose villa the McCanns used. Gives you all you know to know about the PFI scheme. It's thought Geraghty was heavily involved ... photo of him leaving church in Luz, the real reason for McCanns getting the keys was for covert planning meetings. Theor is Geraghty helped get Madeleine repatriated.

2345 said...

Viv,

The bumpy ride forecast by coldwater's contacts wasn't wrong !

J J said...

Just testing to see if I am up and running

viv said...

Hiya

Some people are having trouble getting back on can one of you who has been clever enough to do it post instructions on how you done it please to help others

thanks
viv xx

viv said...

hello lgc's husband I hope she will be ok and give her my love

thanks for your message

viv x

Stella said...

Testing, testing 123......

Di said...

Thanks Viv

x

Stella said...

2345

I knew from the start there had to be a "safe house" or someone they knew or a friend knew of who had a villa somewhere in or around PDL, to pull this one off. I hope the PJ are closing in on all those close aquaintencies......

2345 said...

FIRST POST - interesting article:

FIRST INDEPENDENT ;



Phone intercepts ‘confirm Maddy’s death’






Intercepted telephone calls and emails between the McCanns and their friends have "confirmed the death of Madeleine" say police, according to one Portuguese newspaper today. The intercepts are said to have been made in a joint operation conducted by Portuguese and British police officers.

Diario de Noticias reports investigators have already concluded that THE MISSING FOUR YEAR OLD WAS KILLED IN THE APARTMENT in the apartment where she slept in Praia da Luz.

It says that Maddy's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann (right), and their friends who were holidaying at the Ocean Club, will be brought in for further questioning. Police are awaiting new tests from the McCanns' Renault Scenic.

According to another paper, Jornal de Noticias, police want to examine inconsistencies in the statements of Kate and Gerry McCann, who were interviewed separately late into the night early on in the investigation. In particular, they want to focus on a three-hour period in which only the McCanns saw Madeleine.

RESPECTED NEWS AGENCY LUSA agency Lusa quotes one police source saying that they think "there's light at the end of the tunnel" and that the authorities have "an idea of what could have happened" to the four-year-old.

POLICE HAVE KNOWN "FOR A MONTH" THAT MADELEINE HAD DIED IN THE APARTMENT, it is widely reported. The tabloid newspaper 24 Horas says that the police are looking for Madeleine's body in the sea, helped by English sniffer dogs. They have intensified searches around the nearby town of Lagos and along the Algarvian coast, it says.

Blood found in the apartment two days ago has arrived in Britain for DNA analysis: a result can be expected inside 48 hours.

gibby sobel on the latest news from Portugal about Madeleine's disappearance.

FIRST POSTED AUGUST 8, 2007


N.B. Results expected within 48 hours were delayed by FOUR WEEKS.

"PJ want to examine inconsistencies in the statements of Kate & Gerry (taken on 7 September)". PJ are STILL waiting second interviews with prime suspects SEVEN months later.

Who is preventing PJ re-interviewing prime suspects on original inconsistencies and additional evidence on file?

PJ cannot progress without it ..... no case to answer would have been shown by Prosecutor's closure of the case last September.

Di said...

If You are accepted as a team member, you will receive an e-mail asking you to click on the link provided. If you already have a blogger/google account all you have to do is enter your password. If not you will have to create an account.

Hope that helps.

atardi said...

Hi Nancy,

I didn't have the courage to respond earlier to you. I thought it was an intruder again.

Because they always start with nice posts with the intetion to attack later.

And when I saw Ultraviolet turned up with your avatar I was a bit scared. Don't know anything about cloning.

But you experienced this also on the DE as H4you?

I find it very strange that people attack others just because they want justice for children.

2345 said...

stella,

I've no doubt PJ are highly intelligent,extremely efficient and have left no stone unturned, with Eddie & Keela's expertize and our police. Their only problem has been continual intervention of those protecting the prime suspects.

Read on TTW4's thread that there was a large chest freezer at the villa - well worth a read if you have an hour to spare !

Di said...

Atardi

The same thing happened to me on DE but hopefully not since. I don't know how they do it but I suppose anything is possible these days.

Di said...

2345

Was it the chest freezer that Gerry mentioned in his blog he had replaced or was that a fridge, I cannot remember as he removed it pretty sharply from his blog.

Stella said...

2345

With something as highly political as this, why isn't David Cameron getting involved? Surely this could be just what he needs to get into number 10, to be seen to be the only one to finally get justice for an innocent little 4 year old.

ultraviolet said...

hello atardi. i did not mean to scare anyone - quite the opposite. i have no access to the profile of anyones else. i just altered my own one for a moment to make it look exactly like another profile. there is no danger at all, just confusion.

if you click on the blue username, you can see the whole profile, and you can tell if it is really that person or not. clones usually hide the profile. both my profile and that of nancy are shared, and you can see that it is really us.

J J said...

I thought you might like to see this. Most people know all about it anyway. But maybe there are some who could read and learn?

JOB DESCRIPTION - PARENT
Long term, team players needed, for challenging permanent work in an, often chaotic environment. Candidates must possess excellent communication and organizational skills and be willing to work variable hours, which will include evenings and weekends and frequent 24 hour shifts on call. Some overnight travel required, including trips to primitive camping sites on rainy weekends and endless sports tournaments in far away cities . Travel expenses not reimbursed. Extensive courier duties also required.

RESPONSIBILITIES
The rest of your life. Must be willing to be hated, at least temporarily, until someone needs £5. Must be willing to bite tongue repeatedly. Also, must possess the physical stamina of a pack mule and be able to go from zero to 60 mph in three seconds flat in case, this time, the screams from the backyard are not someone just crying wolf. Must be willing to face stimulating technical challenges, such as small gadget repair, mysteriously sluggish toilets and stuck zippers. Must screen phone calls, maintain calendars and coordinate production of multiple homework projects. Must have ability to plan and organize social gatherings for clients of all ages and mental outlooks. Must be willing to be indispensable one minute, an embarrassment the next. Must handle assembly and product safety testing of a half million cheap, plastic toys, and battery operated devices. Must always hope for the best but be prepared for the worst. Must assume final, complete accountability for the quality of the end product. Responsibilities also include floor maintenance and house work throughout the facility.

POSSIBILITY FOR ADVANCEMENT & PROMOTION
None. Your job is to remain in the same position for years, without complaining, constantly retraining and updating your skills, so that those in your charge can ultimately surpass you

PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE
None required unfortunately. On-the-job training offered on a continually exhausting basis.

WAGES AND COMPENSATION
Get this! You pay them! Offering frequent raises and bonuses. A balloon payment is due when they turn 18 because of the assumption that university will help them become financially independent. When you die, you give them whatever is left. The oddest thing about this reverse-salary scheme is that you actually enjoy it and wish you could only do more.

BENEFITS
While no health or dental insurance, no pension, no tuition reimbursement, no paid holidays and no stock options are offered; this job supplies limitless opportunities for personal growth and free hugs and kisses for life if you play your cards right.

So true!!

2345 said...

doppelganger,

I noticed lots of new posters clapping their hands with glee... reminiscent of monkeys behaviour on DE ... when claudia took it upon herself to delete one of my posts. Most peculiar behaviour.

claudia took umbridge at my reference to one of Alsabella's posts from DE Forum ...
I keep records as legally advised.
I have it in front of me ... a Portuguese TV station was approached and offered 2000 euros a week to cover the case, but NOT from PJ's perspective. They refused as a matter of honour and high regard for PJ.

2345 said...

Viv,

3 A's is also having troll trouble.
Widespread cloning including avatars.

Genuine commentators know each other's style and format to detect the clones. McCanns forum defence team can replicate anything or anyone they choose, their text always blows their cover.

atardi said...

Huh?

Viv,

Saw a post of Yogaden102 above Madeleine's photo.

Can you replace the post?

Stella said...

Just been on Sky the PJ have released a statement...

2345 said...

stella,

Good question. I'm told that whilst politicians barrack fiercely in Parliament they're friendly 'offstage'. If word of Brown's brother being in Luz is true, then it could 'break' Brown.

Perhaps there's some sort of gentleman's code in operation in this case. If Cameron used 'dirty tricks' to elevate himself, and failed, it would destroy his career, not Brown's. I think this is the reason Cameron's distancing himself in this case. It's not just Brown, big business names and big money are also involved ... risky challenge ... rather like taking on the Mafia !!!

dolores said...

Viv,
Thank you for the invite.
XX D
Justice for Maddie,she cannot speak for herself,we are her voice.

LittleGreyCell said...

Viv, thank you, LGC is feeling a lot better & will be back soon, fresh from her handsome young doctor's attentions. I will stop posting now in case someone thinks I'm a clone & gets anxious.

Lucky-husband-of-LGC

2345 said...

May I make a suggestion for safety's sake of genuine commentators?

Clock in and clock out ... any posts between whiles will confirm cloned ID.

I'm off now to cook .. it's 4.45 p.m.

Di said...

2345

Good idea

Di said...

Well done to the Portuguese police for fighting back, yes Clarence the gloves are now truly off!!

Stella said...

2345

I forgot about the old boys club motto. Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer and keep all the dirt well and truly under the carpet, for the sake of the country.

dolores said...

Latest News Sky
The gloves are off Pinky.

Police Respond To Madeleine Claims
Updated:16:46, Monday April 14, 2008

Portuguese police have hit back at Kate and Gerry McCann - denying claims they leaked information about their daughter's disappearance.

2345 said...

claudia,

It's not neglect that will haunt the McCanns - Kate herself said in a live interview, in defence of parental neglect - "we KNOW what happened to Madeleine and it WASN'T because Madeleine was left alone.

She said it .... Eddie & Keela and police found her comments to be absolutely true.

Kate's demeanour shows she really struggles with dishonesty, she's fundamentally honest; the reason Gerry keeps her on such a tight verbal rein for fear of what she might say.

Ana said...

Hello all,

Just testing...Thanks Viv for the invite.

Sky News-Breaking News

"Portuguese police defends itself against allegations McCann statements were leaked "

Nothing yet on the portuguese channels !

I am off for a while,see you all later :

Joe said...

Well if the PJ did not leak , then who did? My money is on the the Metodo3 so as to give the McCanns an excuse to get out of the reconstruction in PDL. Backfired somewhat I would say, unfortunately it will not stop his Pinkiness from spinning his rubbish.

2345 said...

dolores,

About time too ... they've been bound by secrecy laws for long enough. It's time for them to take the arena and knock prize misinformer CM off his perch !!!

Stella said...

Yes, well done PJ, and whilst you are at it maybe you should have strong words with Clarence for dropping Rachel Oldfield's name into the conversation the day. Surely CM is not allowed to discuss who was where, when and why, during an ongoing investigation, especially blurting it out on TV.

I'm off now, I look forward to whatever tomorrow may hold......

2345 said...

dolores,

OP on 3 A's says we're witnessing spin and reverse spin from desperate CM !!!

He's so far removed from reality he must be heading for illness, if he's not already arrived.

Di said...

Joe

I agree with you more than likely Metodo, I hope the PJ fully investigate.

2345 said...

di,

PJ should get a warrant to arrest McCanns, CM & Metado 3 ... they're a menace to decent society.

atardi said...

Di,

Let's hope it won't happen again here.

Ultraviolet,

Thank you very much for the explanation. I really didn't understand that cloning.

LGC's Husband,

It didn't even cross my mind that you could be a clone.

Yojaden 102,

Can you manage to have your post on the right place?


Portuguese police deny leak in case of missing British girl
The Associated Press
Published: April 14, 2008

-----------------------------------

LISBON, Portugal: Portuguese police are denying they leaked details of their investigation into the disappearance of British girl Madeleine McCann.

Spanish media have published what is claimed to be testimony given to police by Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann who are official suspects in the case.

The McCanns say they are angry about the leak, calling it an attempt to smear them.

However, a statement Monday from police headquarters in Lisbon said it was "completely false" that the media report contained information from the police investigation.
gebruiksvoorwaarden

2345 said...

stella,

PJ wouldn't waste time and money flying to England to interview one or two and NOT prime suspects - the focus of their attention in this case. I posted an article earlier which confirmed PJ needed to examine the inconsistencies in the statements of McCanns they gave seven months ago ... PJ are still waiting to re-interview and requestion the prime suspects.

The visit was a figment of CM's imagination and the 'leaks'.

atardi said...

Hi Dolores,

Hope everything is ok.

Di said...

2345

Totally agree with that.

The announcement has just been made on BBC news, although it was the last comment which doesn't surprise me.

2345 said...

Everything in the media is 'false' because CM is controlling the media.

It's fair to assume PJ are still being subjected to the same treatment as genuine posters in forums, misrepresented and bullied. These are McCanns' defence team tactics ...

2345 said...

Definitely signing off now - 5.10 p.m.

dolores said...

2345,
He will spin himself into orbit one of these days.
The problem is he has being spinning for months now unchallengd.
I think the PJ. are just about sick of him now.

XX D





Portuguese police have hit back at Kate and Gerry McCann - denying claims they leaked information about their daughter's disappearance.

Gerry and Kate McCannThe war of words intensified as detectives said allegations they had passed information to the media were "baseless".

The Policia Judiciaria (PJ) issued a rare public statement singling out the couple's spokesman Clarence Mitchell, who angrily demanded an inquiry into how interview transcripts came into the public domain.

dolores said...

Atardi,
Hi, I am fine thanks :)and you?

XX D

Di said...

Just a thought Viv

If anyone is looking in, but does not have time to read back, they will miss your earlier post saying you have to become a team member.

I would imagine they will just assume it is logging in problems.

dolores said...

Will Murat put Mc's to shame and further suspicion?

The first suspect of Maddie's disappearance wants to participate in the 'movie' of the re-enactment of the 3rd of Maay in Praia da Luz

Without fears and willing to help. This is the state of mind of Robert Murat, the Englishman that was constituted as the first arguido in the scope of the process connected with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, on the 3rd of May of 2007, of an apartment in Praia da Luz, Algarve.

Like him, Sergey Malinka, a computer expert, was notified to participate, on the 15th and 16th of May, in a reconstruction of the alleged events that took place the day on which Maddie disappeared.

Malinka, so far, has not answered, but Murat has already told the authorities that he has no problem in helping and, contrary to Kate and Gerry McCann, parents of the child, and unlike the seven friends with whom they had dinner with in the Tapas Bar, on that fateful day, he did not impose any conditions to participate in the re-enactment.

viv said...

PLEASE NOTE MEMBERS ONLY NOW IF YOU WANT TO BECOME A MEMBER SO YOU CAN POST PLEASE EMAIL ME AT

felicity123@live.co.uk

THANKS VIV

and thanks Di for reminding me

Doppelganger said...

Viv,

Thanks for the invite.

Have you given any thought yet regarding strategies to increase the blog membership?

Perhaps when you or Claudia are here you could open the blog to all contributors but close it up when you are not.

You could then put an explanation for this and an e-mail address to apply for blog membership in the blog header somewhere.

You could also include a list of current members although that may not be possible due to space restrictions.

The explanation could also include information on what to do in case of 'rogue members' and an explanation of what motivates these type of people.

Just a few, hopefully, constructive suggestions.

I think the main reason your blog was attacked is because of its increasing popularity and the last thing any of us would want to happen is for it to become a pointless chat-room for 5 or 6 people like the other blog.

If you study the other blog and just do the opposite of what they have done you won't go far wrong.

:-)

viv said...

Thanks Doppel

that is a good idea

also now I have members I can allow a few more to be able to delete abusive posts when Claudia and I are not around.

I have already given admin rights to LGC and Dolores (she actually volunteered for the irksome task bless her) so this should help.

Will leave it a few days like this and then start opening it back up again when I can be sure we have administrators always available to kick out the sick troll x

THREE CHEERS FOR DARLING DOLORES!

Di said...

Viv

You are welcome.

The last paragraph of the Sky News report am I understanding this correctly, the PJ are saying the leaked information is NOT even from their interviews?



The PJ want to make it clear that is is entirely false that the contents of this report included material from the inquiry which is covered by (the law of) secrecy of justice."


So who made this up then?

viv said...

Hey guys I did not let any sly trolls in did I?

Hope not, post me if you think I did and I can delete their account.

We will get this sorted!


Viv x

Doppelganger said...

Just on BBC news,

The Portuguese Police have flatly denied that they are responsible for the leaks and have criticised CM saying that his comments are not helpful at a time when significant work is being made to further the investigation.

Given that the leaks are being used by the McCann's as an excuse for not returning to Portugal to help the PJ I think the source of the leaks is much nearer to home than people would imagine.

As I said the other day, the McCann apologists are already saying the leaks prove that Kate and Gerry helped the police in any way they could even if it made them look bad.

The fact that it has already been widely reported that Madeleine was left crying for hours on the night of May 2nd is of course being ignored by them.

Some of them are even saying she was not crying?????

I personally don't believe Madeleine ever made such a statement on the morning of May 3rd.

I think this so called damaging admission is actually a very carefully calculated strategy to deflect attention from what really happened on May 2nd/ May 3rd.

But we will just have to wait and see how much JT is prepared to sacrifice to save the others.

IHMO

:-)

Di said...

Viv

You have lost me on that one!!!

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